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March 23, 2025 - Lionel Nation

01:33:23

Follow the Money: Whistleblower SHREDS Clinton Foundation in Explosive Interview!

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	"The Future"All right, my friends.
	I am, first of all, so excited to have my good friend, my old friend.
	We haven't spoken in a while.
	Charles Ortel.
	The Charles Ortel.
	It's actually on his driver's license.
	It says, the...
	Charles Orotel.
	And the last time we talked, Charles, you regaled me in the audience with your particular depiction of the Clinton crime syndicate in terms of the Clinton Foundation.
	I think it was Clinton Foundation, Clinton Global Initiative, Clinton.
	There were a number of these organizations.
	So let us start with this.
	We'll go through your bona fides after.
	Imagine that I am Pam Bondi.
	I am the Attorney General.
	And I have brought you in.
	And I say, Counselor, even though you're not a lawyer, you should be.
	Counselor, I want to make a case against either Hillary Clinton or Bill Clinton or the Clinton Foundation or the Clinton family.
	In your review of the facts, what do you believe, based upon your evaluation, that they ever did that you might consider or somebody might consider to be illegal, illicit, or improper regarding foundations in particular?
	All right, that's a good question.
	When I first met you, Lionel, I had some exposure to takeover law and corporate law, but very little exposure to the laws that pertain to operating a complex charity, not a simple charity in one state and one little city.
	This is a multinational enterprise run by, in theory, The former Attorney General, Governor, President of the United States, the former Secretary of State, First Lady, Senator, etc., both of whom met at Yale Law School, both of whom are celebrated as being very smart.
	Elementary law, which I did not understand as well as I do now, is no charity can exist as what is called a formless aggregation of individuals.
	It has to be an actual organization.
	You have to pick a type of organization that you want to be.
	They picked non-profit corporation.
	To exist, a non-profit corporation has to have articles of incorporation and bylaws.
	Articles of incorporation are the most important document.
	That's a document that anybody can actually see.
	Bylaws govern how the entity is supposed to operate on a day-to-day basis, and often you don't get to see the bylaws.
	But the bylaws have to conform to the articles.
	So what Bill did and his handlers did is it was like, library?
	Little Rock?
	That's like piddly ant shit.
	I mean, I don't want to just have a library in Little Rock.
	I want to move to New York.
	I want to be head of this global enterprise.
	But I'm not going to bother with any of the formalities, even though my wife is now a senator in New York by 2001, one of two important people representing the great state of New York where you're from, where I live most of my life.
	And they didn't bother.
	They changed the name.
	They tried to change the name on April 25, 2005, after they completed the library, by amending the articles.
	But the amendment was so sloppy that they just said, you know, the new name is X. Let me finish.
	And so since April 25, 2005, the main entity has not had the required organizational documents.
	During an entire period of four years, when James Comey initially was at the SDNY, the FBI, the DOJ, the IRS investigated this Clinton Foundation.
	There's a big file.
	There are four parts.
	It's online.
	A lot of the documents are missing.
	The first step, I would say, is go into that file in the FBI, which is there, look at the whole thing, and explain to me why James Comey and Robert Mueller, who met, and there's a memo memorializing this, In, I think, 2002 or 2003, why they could not see the fact that this entity started October 23rd, 1997, never had a required audit.
	It's never had the actual required audit.
	Now, before we begin, and please, I'm going to keep this to a minimum, but I'm hearkening back to the last time that we spoke.
	There is a difference, is there not, Charles, between a charity, kind of like...
	Charles Ortele Foundation is a 501c3, and it's just a, you know, and a kind of a foundation, a charity where you are, you're turbocharging it, where you're saying, I'm almost standing in the place of a government.
	I'm not just a charity.
	I'm not somebody...
	I'm doing something, and I'm asking people to invest or to whatever, and they'll receive a tax benefit.
	But the thing is, explain that distinction between foundations and charities, because that's really interesting.
	Right.
	So what you're talking about is the difference between a private foundation, think of the Gates Foundation, and something called a public charity.
	A public charity, which the Clinton Foundation It's supposed to be.
	It is something that stands in the shoes of government and therefore cannot support political candidates, either by supporting them or opposing them, specific causes.
	And it cannot, it absolutely cannot, through its operation, create more than, quote, this is a legal standard, more than an insubstantial amount of private gain, where private gain is not merely money.
	Private gain is any kind of advantage or edge through the operation of this charity.
	So this is always supposed to have been a public charity.
	It certainly is not.
	Multiple books, Schweitzer's book, multiple insiders have talked about the Clinton blur, the fact that Bill's there in Harlem or wherever he chooses to operate.
	And he's on the phone with different people talking about business deals and speech deals and book deals and the foundation and campaigns, all at the same time, all with the same staff, all with money.
	You're not allowed to do this.
	So the real question here is not the magnitude, which we exposed together back in 2007, the magnitude of this fraud.
	The big question is, why have so many regulators, particularly in New York, city and state, allowed this fraud to continue?
	And today, Musk and Trump and others are focused on NGO fraud.
	The reason we have this NGO fraud, I think, is because people looked at the Clinton example.
	Bill and Hillary Clinton were basically, from a technical perspective, bankrupt in 2000 as they exited the White House in early 2001.
	But the grifters, I think, who wanted to put this globalist enterprise around the world on all of us with Tony Blair and others said, this is perfect.
	We'll give this guy crumbs.
	We'll let him go around the world celebrating his philanthropic exploits.
	He'll end up with, say, a quarter of a billion.
	We'll steal.
	$25 trillion.
	And that's basically, I think this is an example, Pam Bondi and Kash Patel and others need to crush this example, and they need to crush the people who supported it, particularly Bill Gates and the Gates Foundation, which has given over $250 million.
	The biggest donor to this set of frauds inside the parent company, which I hasten to remind people, It has not legally existed as a charity for 20 years.
	It hasn't existed.
	The biggest donor is the World Health Organization through an entity called Unitate that has given $650 million to this fraud beginning in late 2006.
	Again, please, I beg your forgiveness because when we first talked about this, And I didn't know this, but you should have a horn book, you know, or tell in public.
	You could be in West Publishing.
	This should be required reading.
	Let's go back to what, if I recall correctly, when Bill Clinton started off by saying, remember, and correct me if I'm wrong, it was the Bill Clinton Library.
	The Clinton Library.
	That's what it was.
	Not the Bill Clinton AIDS and Public Health.
	It was the Bill Clinton Library.
	That's all it was.
	And that, pursuant to statutes and recordation requirements regarding being a repository of papers that belonged to the government.
	It's technical.
	It's not just you doing the Charles Ortele Library.
	It is part and parcel of this.
	All right.
	When you start off with the Bill Clinton Foundation, or excuse me, the Bill Clinton Library, and you one day say, you know what, Charles?
	By God, I've always wanted to help out with AIDS research.
	You know what I'm going to do?
	I'm going to take some of the money that I get from this book, and I'm going to write a check.
	And I'm going to give it to somebody.
	And let's assume it's legit.
	But I just decide I'm going to do the right thing because I've always thought that health...
	That is a violation of the law, no matter how well-intended or intentioned it was.
	Am I correct?
	Well, yeah, for perhaps more reasons than I originally led on to early back in 2017.
	The first thing to remember is there's this phrase, what's in a name?
	It's very important.
	To understand the precise legal name of the charity.
	So the precise legal name of the charity initially was the, uppercase T, William J. Clinton Presidential Foundation.
	This was incorporated October 23, 1997, before 9-11, and before the financial crisis, when banks got really, really tough about giving bank accounts out.
	So the first trick in a crooked charity is you take a celebrity like Bill Clinton, And I'm not saying he conceived of this, but you then say, all right, we're going to open up the real bank account in the real name, but we're going to go find a friendly banker over here,
	and we're going to open up a second bank account with a slightly different name, say, getting rid of the V. And then we're going to do that, when we get away with that, we're going to do that in 15 different branches in Little Rock.
	And then once we're done with that, we'll move to New York.
	And we'll do a similar thing.
	We'll start opening up all these bank accounts, and then we'll tell people the fundraisers.
	We'll get sloppy fundraisers, and we'll tell them, make your check out to William J. Clinton Presidential Foundation.
	Or William Clinton.
	Right.
	Or the variance of the name.
	And then you just take that money.
	The donor gets a tax deduction, because I think the IRS was gained, and the IRS said, we're not going to roll this thing up.
	The donor gets to get money back from the government and the Clintons and or the Democratic Party and or the handler and the fundraiser just steal the money.
	Now, could he, not that this is kosher, could he, Charles, have said, I didn't take this, this is clearly not the William J. Clinton Foundation, this is the William Clinton Foundation, and I didn't say the foundation does it.
	If I write Sir Charles Ortel V on a check, you still can cash it.
	It's crazy for me to do it.
	Well, you're really not supposed to do that.
	And then we go back to this public charity thing, right?
	Public charities, there's actually memos in the IRS, detailed memos that have to explain that public charities and charities in general are not allowed to engage in any illegal activities.
	There's a memo to this effect.
	Why you would need to write such a memo is another question.
	So you can't do that.
	The second thing that I didn't know as much about, but I do know now, back on the question of public charities, In 2002, the city of Little Rock entered into a long-term lease with the William J. Clinchel Foundation, in which the lease terms specify that the thing has got to be a public charity,
	because likely under, I'm not an expert on Little Rock law, but I'm guessing that the city of Little Rock cannot just enter into long 200-year agreements with Lionel or Charles, you know, unless there is some specific public interest in doing so.
	So they signed that lease.
	Then on November 18, 2004, they signed an agreement with the National Archives and Records Administration saying that they would make this donation to NARA of an interest in the facility in Little Rock.
	But the only way you can do that lawfully, the only way that NARA can receive that donation, which has a perpetual life, is if the donor is a public charity.
	And the agreement, which I got, is nowhere to be found in the Clinton Foundation website, which is supposed to have all of its important agreements on it.
	And it's not there.
	So this entity, the people around it, has defrauded.
	The city of Little Rock, the state of Arkansas, the federal government, and all of these government grants around the world that they received.
	In the filing in late December 1997, when they asked the IRS for authority, they stated that the bulk of their money was going to come from government grants and from the general public.
	That's not what happened.
	And you have to disclose the particulars of the government grants.
	The first time they did that...
	It was late in, I think, November or December 2008.
	They operated this thing for more than 10 years, failing to disclose and have never disclosed the specifics of the government grants from governments all over the world, in the Middle East, in Europe, etc.
	They've never disclosed those grants, as they have to, under California law and under New York law.
	It's been repeatedly in violation.
	It's been found to be in violation in multiple states.
	And you're supposed to disclose anytime you're in violation, you're supposed to disclose those violations everywhere that you solicit.
	And they haven't done that.
	So this is such a big mess that I think what actually must have happened is, and the Bushes have been involved, have been drawn in with H.W. Bush fundraising the tsunami.
	H.W. Bush, Terry McAuliffe got him a fat speaking contract.
	He took his money instead of cash.
	He took it in stock.
	The stock went up like a rocket ship.
	So for a speech, it might have gotten him $60,000.
	He got over $10 million in proceeds from a speech.
	And then they got involved in the Katrina exercise in August of 2005, representing to the world that the Clinton Foundation existed when it didn't, working hand-in-hand with the George H.W. Bush Foundation on Katrina.
	Then in 2010, with the W. Bush Foundation on Haiti, which is another big mess.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	It's gotten to a point where it was such a big mess that the swamp and the swamp vampires got together and said, yeah, you want to expose the Clinton Foundation, we're going to have to expose the Bushes, and we're going to have to expose the American Conservative Union, which is a lot like the Clinton Foundation as well, for reasons that we can get into.
	So I think the swamp compromise is you did bad things, you Democrats.
	You did bad things, you Republicans.
	This is too complicated.
	The jury will never understand it.
	Let's just sweep this under the rug.
	And that's how we get to the place we are now, where Musk and Doge are finding trillions and trillions of dollars, and they probably haven't gotten to the heart of the fraud.
	It's probably up in the $10, $25 trillion magnitude, if not bigger, in terms of the wealth that's been created.
	With these fraudsters who are getting back to another piece of it, to the Clinton Global Initiative, that thing is a grift convention.
	But I got you, because that's another one too.
	Was it, Charles, necessary for Bill Clinton, or anybody for the matter, to proceed under this particular structure, foundation, or could he have done it?
	Any other way?
	Could he have said, look, I want to keep the money.
	I want to lie or be deceitful, but I don't want to go this route.
	Or was this necessary?
	Is this the only way to make as much money as he did legitimately to draw it in?
	Or was it just negligence?
	Or, you know, if I had to do it over again, I had no criminal intent.
	I could have done it.
	I could have used a number of other instruments.
	So how did that work?
	See, I mean, you're a lawyer, and I don't want to understand your billing policies, but I'm going to guess they're not the same as Williams and Connolly, which was working for the Clinton family beginning in December 1992, before he was sworn in.
	And then all the scandals happened.
	He had to bring in a second law firm, Scadden Arps.
	But there was a point in time where Williams and Connolly was allowing the Clintons to run up gigantic bills and not paying them currently every month.
	Now, I have talked to other lawyers that say that that's outside the code of professional conduct for a law firm to be basically investing in your client and letting your client run up a lot of bills over – and we're not talking about a week.
	We're talking about years and millions of dollars.
	So Bill was actually quite desperate when he left the White House, particularly in disgrace over the Mark Rich pardon.
	And actually, the Mark Rich pardon is not the worst one.
	The worst one is Susan Rosenberg.
	I don't know how much you know about her, but she blew up a federal building and was serving time in prison, and she left.
	She was pardoned along with the Puerto Rican terrorists.
	He pardoned those people.
	But Susan Rosenberg then went back in and became affiliated with Thousand Currents, which is, I think, tied to Act Blue.
	So she's this person that Bill pardoned is, I think, At least Mark Rich is dead and can't do us any harm, but this Susan Rosenberg is really bad news.
	So, yeah, so Bill was desperate.
	What he should have done, and some unsolicited advice to President Trump, no family member, no relative of any kind should be associated with his library.
	He's announced he's going to do a library.
	He's got to be completely away from the family.
	He shouldn't have an apartment in it the way the Bushes do and the way...
	Bill Clinton has a 5,000-square-foot apartment on the penthouse in this thing with a gigantic terrace on it and a swimming pool for interns at one point.
	So you've got to stay away from that.
	And what Bill should have done is he should have done just that.
	He should say, in Little Rock, I'll get my buddies.
	They'll put the thing up together.
	And in New York, I'm going to set up a private company.
	And Dan Halper wrote a book called Clinton Inc.
	I'll just set up something called Clinton Inc.
	or make up some name of it.
	It's a private company.
	It's not going to take outside shareholders.
	It'll have maybe a trust for Chelsea and the grandkids could be the ultimate shareholders.
	In that way, you'd know nothing about it.
	You would have no disclosure requirements.
	You'd have no conflicts.
	If you want to go around to your friends who are going to pay you off and cut you into an investment fund on terms that you shouldn't be in, You have the latitude to do that as a private person.
	There's nothing wrong with that.
	The second you create this public charity, you're screwed yourself because there are onerous requirements.
	Any kind of conflict of interest, you can't take...
	Who advised him?
	I know this is where...
	But you ask yourself, the way I see it, and I have seen this a lot in my life and criminal efforts and the like and clients, people get into this...
	They feel almost invisible.
	They get away with it once, and they say, do you understand who I am?
	I'm Bill Clinton.
	Who was it?
	Oh, God.
	Who was it who said taxes are for little people?
	Helmsley.
	Leona Helmsley.
	Somebody said one time, great men don't stop for red lights.
	There's this idea that whatever it is.
	Richard Nixon says, if the president does it, it's not against the law.
	So you started off with that.
	This was the Bill Clinton Library Fund.
	It was a library.
	That's it.
	It's just...
	But it gets better.
	I think Bill Clinton, I've never had the pleasure of meeting him.
	I've come close to meeting Hillary Clinton just by chance.
	I suspect, you know, Bill Clinton is now, what is he, 78 almost?
	I think he was 78 or 9 even.
	And he's had a life of fraud.
	He's never been honest with himself about his true persona.
	And he's gone from, you know, whatever his adolescence was like, which must have been very tough.
	He was a very smart kid, supposedly, in a small town in Arkansas.
	Probably he was bullied, as a guess.
	And, you know, he grew up without knowing who his real father was.
	A lot of tensions, I imagine, in his childhood.
	And then he suddenly gets to be, I don't know why he went to Georgetown.
	It's a Catholic school and he's a Baptist.
	And I know because I have a grandfather who was a Baptist missionary.
	Baptists and Catholics do not get along.
	So I'm surprised he would have picked Georgetown.
	And I'm surprised then that he became a Rhodes Scholar.
	But you then look through his life.
	And it's almost as if people just plucked him from obscurity and said, you know, we're going to make you the most powerful man on earth.
	Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
	It sure does.
	It sure does.
	And in that regard, there's a very suspicious character.
	One of the interesting things about Bill, some of his books are worse than reading the instruction manual.
	20 years ago of a Korean television.
	I mean, they're just really awful prose.
	But his book, My Life, you know, it had an excellent editor, which is why it ended up at 1,098 pages.
	I'm teasing there.
	But there are vignettes that he insists on putting in.
	One is that when he was a Rhodes Scholar, he talks about he was going through a dark time in his life.
	And he would go from Oxford, which back then in the 70s, You know, I first went to England in 76. It was not pleasant to travel.
	The system was broken down.
	It was an effort to go from Oxford into London.
	It cost money.
	And he talks about going to these parties with a guy called David Edwards, who was described as being a Citibank banker who had a luxurious apartment where he would gather young people together and pay for all the expenses of parties and who knows whatever else.
	Then in this book, it talks about how Hillary and Bill, when every year they were married, I forget what it was, in the mid-70s, they went on a honeymoon.
	Then they get a call from Edwards.
	And in the book, Bill says, Edwards says that he has extra-frequent flyer miles, and he wants to give them a ticket to go to Haiti.
	Now, I've done a bunch of airline mergers in my life, and I know that there were no frequent flyer programs in the 70s.
	That gave you tickets.
	It just didn't exist.
	So that's fantasy.
	But of all places to go a week after you come back from your first honeymoon, they decide to go to Haiti, and they participate in voodoo rituals.
	Try explaining that to your wife.
	You go on your first honeymoon, you come back, you've got all the presents, the notes you've got to write, and then you say to your wife, hey, look, let's go down to Haiti.
	I want to introduce you to voodoo, because this guy I met in London.
	It's going to pay for the tickets.
	I mean, it's a little bit weird.
	It kind of pales by comparison.
	It almost reminds me of Bill de Blasio and his wife who went to Cuba when it wasn't legal.
	But anyway, beside the point.
	Anyway, this is one, as they say in the South, this is one right mess right now.
	There have been at least two serious investigations of the Clinton Foundation.
	One that occurred From 2001 to 2005.
	Then one that occurred starting in January of 2016.
	These are both matters of public record.
	And the one that started in January of 2016, apparently it was quite a set of conflicts between the FBI, who wanted to go full bore, and Loretta Lynch, who apparently told the FBI, you can investigate all you want, we're not going to prosecute.
	Remember that there was a tarmac meeting.
	The tarmac meeting, exactly.
	So there are a lot of records here.
	When I started out on this, I was brainwashed, and I assumed that the criminal element is going to be in the for-profit-seeking realm of an economy.
	That is not true.
	The criminal element is in the non-profit, because non-profits, it's almost like you get a cloak of invisibility when you operate one of these non-profits.
	Oh, you have a foundation?
	Wow!
	You're giving away your money?
	How noble!
	And people don't, they suspend their disbelief.
	Right.
	And they say, oh, even I did that.
	When I saw Bill and George H.W. go on the tsunami tour to raise money, I had previously, I'm distantly related to the Bush's, but I previously had been in a business deal with one of the Bush sons.
	I'm not going to say who it is.
	And he told me, we traveled to the Middle East together, Europe, etc., a lot of time with him, and he told me that his father loathed Clinton.
	This is before the foundation.
	He was furious with him.
	He thought he was, you know, all kinds of really poisonous comments.
	And this is somebody who knew his father well, not George W. And so I thought, my God, I mean, for George H.W. to turn and say, you know, I'm going to work with this guy I loathe to raise money for victims in a tsunami.
	How noble.
	This is great.
	That thing is a total fraud.
	There's never been an accounting for that.
	Remember the story where they said that George Herbert Walker Bush, there was only one bed to sleep in or something.
	And Bill said, Unbeknownst, he goes, no, no, you do this or whatever.
	And out of the kindness of his heart and sense of nobility, he lay on the floor of this whatever it was.
	His whole life is just a complete lie.
	And the interesting part, because I think you're right about this, I always thought...
	That if you could put him on the couch, so to speak, and unravel this Freudian sense of him, how he always wanted to protect his mother and the drunken father, and she would walk around with two tops and rather scantily, I mean, it's very, very sad, and he always lived his life with women trying to have them adore him, and it just goes on and on and on.
	And you know, it's funny, when you have that as a child, it doesn't go away.
	It just manifests itself into something else.
	So he, aside from this, is a very strange person.
	And one more thing before we forget.
	Charles, out of all the women he could have ever had, he's Bill Clinton.
	There were ambassadors wise, there were people who would have, you know, he always likened himself to JFK.
	And somebody said, JFK had Marilyn Monroe.
	He had his exotic...
	German spies.
	You've got Monica Lewinsky and Paula, whatever.
	I mean, he was like a trailer David Niven.
	He was a lower rung of the ladder, in any event.
	Well, actually, on that point, my kids were in this private school in upstate New York with one of the classmates was a daughter of a billionaire who was a hard-left person.
	So this donor...
	We would arrange for our kids to come down 100 miles into the city to these benefits where Hillary Clinton would attend.
	And one year they went in, and I guess my eldest was maybe 10, and my daughter was 5. And they come back, and my daughter said, You're not going to believe.
	William had to kiss Hillary.
	She's got scary eyes, Dad.
	She's got scary eyes, and she stinks.
	That's what my kids are saying.
	You know, from what you read about her and when you see her, when the mask drops on Hillary Clinton, she's a nasty, poisonous person.
	And I don't understand.
	I mean, you know, some people like poison, I guess, but I don't understand staying together.
	I don't understand the whole story.
	You know, it's funny.
	You remind me that...
	You remember that old joke, they say, you know that Charles Ortega, you know when you take away that brusty exterior, that rude countenance, that kind of weird, this consummation, he's a miserable son of a bitch.
	Well, that's Hillary.
	She was, you know, Nita Lowey just passed away.
	This was the woman who was going to be senator.
	This was the woman who, and they said, no you're not, she is.
	Okay, she was the good soldier, and she would have done far better.
	Hillary's a different story.
	But I want to go back to what's going on.
	Because I'm trying to piece this together because I remember last time we would talk, my God, lo those many years ago, I would get done and I'm thinking, oh my God, we haven't even gotten into the, there's the Clinton Foundation, the Clinton Global Initiative, the Clinton Health, oh yeah, the Clinton Health Access Initiative, Clinton Global Initiative, and the The library fund.
	These are three separate entities.
	And we talked about the drug trials for the AIDS.
	I mean, it was like it just never ended.
	I don't want to give away the end of the story.
	It's incredible.
	I'm aware of there was a guy who I can tell the story now who died called Clint Murchison down in Texas and Clint was he bought the Dallas Cowboys franchise for 200,000 bucks this is in 60s or 70s or whenever he did it and he was he came from nothing he started the oil business he got into banking I got called.
	My first trip to Texas in 1985 as a banker was to go down and meet with his son.
	And the son's cousin.
	And go through the estate that this guy had left behind.
	He was a force to be reckoned with.
	You couldn't tell.
	He could have a crazy idea.
	And people say, you shouldn't do that.
	I'm a billionaire because I...
	Back my instincts or whatever.
	Football players would have girlfriends and he'd say, here's $9 million for a restaurant for this girlfriend.
	He's throwing money.
	Well, it turns out he had dementia.
	That'll do it.
	He lost everything.
	I'm not saying Bill Clinton has dementia, but he's grown up.
	He's created around him this empire where nobody can tell him no.
	He does what he wants.
	And he's gotten away with it, and he thinks he's always going to get away with it.
	But his legacy, the story is going to be told.
	Whether this thing is punished or not, the story is out there.
	People are going to be curious about it.
	The not-for-profit world is finally, you know, when you and I were talking about it back in 17 and 16, people cared about it, but not the way they now care about it.
	Because you see the BLM, you see these various, you know, completely for Stacey Abrams.
	You know, buck-tooth, $1.9 billion charity.
	You see these ridiculous things.
	You know, she's going to help people buy fuel-efficient refrigerators, and so you should give her $1.9 billion.
	That's ridiculous.
	So people now, I think, are up in arms about this.
	Trump has talked about creating an American academy where it's going to be a new institution.
	This foundation fraud and the subject of fraud should be taught.
	I mean, people, when you leave in high school, you should understand the warning signs for fraud.
	I actually, I was at a fundraiser for Harvard Business School, and the dean got up and said, you know, our most valuable asset is our alumni.
	If you have any ideas, please come speak to me.
	So I went to speak to him, and it happened that the Jeffrey M. Elton explosion was happening at the same time as the Clinton Foundation in 18 or 19 was under scrutiny.
	And I said, Dean, listen, when I went to Harvard Business School, I graduated in 1980.
	We had no cases on fraud.
	We had no, you know, no real subject matter on fraud.
	Why don't you have a professor specializing in exposing frauds and teach that to people so that you're more circumspect?
	Because really, especially as we age, you know, people can figure out your age.
	You suddenly get more and more solicitations.
	It's natural for older people to say, you know, I'm at the end of my life here.
	How can I help?
	And so I was with somebody before I left the United States last year.
	I was involved with the foundation and we were meeting and there was this real, you know, Clinton, Obama lover, loved Joe Biden.
	And he said, you know, I really think their charitable activities are wonderful.
	That's why I support these different charities.
	And I said, all right, let's go through the ones you support.
	He said, well, I'm really interested in this one.
	That's a fraud.
	What do you mean it's a fraud?
	Every single one that that guy...
	It was putting money in was a fraud.
	And typically involving famous people, celebrities, actors, politicians, etc.
	You fall for it.
	UNICEF, fraud.
	My first exposure, actually, to hunting out fraud was in my elementary school.
	I went to Grace Church School down there in the village.
	And we had our Wednesday assembly and these older girls get up and they say, you know, we have this new program.
	I want each of you to sign up.
	You get one of these little paper cardboard boxes.
	You turn it into a piggyback.
	You go to your parents.
	You ask them for the change.
	So I was going to my parents who were involved, actually.
	My mother had a teacher at Yale who was very helpful to her, an organ teacher.
	And they raised it with their own money and others.
	They donated money in a proper way.
	And I was involved looking stamps for that effort and stuff.
	So I watched them.
	My father was a physicist.
	My mother was a musician.
	Very careful people.
	And I go to them and say, hey, I'm going to do something like you're doing.
	I'm going to help with this unison.
	And my father looked at me and said, where do you think that money goes?
	I said, I don't know.
	That's why we're not doing it.
	Nobody knows.
	And this was back in the 60s.
	You need that type of instinct.
	You remember the homeless charity in New York with all those folding cards.
	Oh, yes, yes.
	It was the large, it was on the corner, and they had the big water vessels for fountains.
	Yes, I forgot about that.
	And they would just be spewing this.
	But, you know, you bring up something very interesting.
	And I always want to...
	I don't want to make this too complicated, but if you're ever trying to figure out whether it's the mob, whether it's Wall Street, whether it's the entertainment business, or whatever it is, you have to understand the collective, not the zeitgeist, but the collective conscience.
	I'm into crowd behavior and a clock receive and how individual people, when you move into a different group, you want to fit in.
	And if I bring you in and I say, now Charles, you don't mind.
	You're now in the big shot.
	This is how we do things now, Charles.
	You understand, don't you?
	And you will say, of course.
	It's okay.
	I do it.
	He does it.
	And pretty soon, as you mentioned the veneer, whatever would normally shock your conscience is gone.
	When we get to the bottom...
	Say what you want about Bill Clinton, Donald Trump or Elon Musk.
	The very fact that somebody says, let's look into where this money goes, because that is the taproot.
	That is the pumping station.
	That's the heart, the mind of everything.
	And what happens is, you know what's funny?
	Whenever you...
	You ever have an old house or something and you plug something in and you realize, oh my God, all the lights went off in the neighborhood.
	You don't realize what this is connected to.
	So if I chop off this, I hate to do these analogies, but somebody said one time when they were chopping trees, he goes, be careful, because this branch that you think goes to that tree could be that tree.
	So when all of a sudden he goes in and they say, we're going to get USAID.
	And Cass Sunstein's wife, Samantha Power, and others.
	And this goes, and this goes, and this goes.
	Next thing you know, Politico goes off.
	MSNBC goes off.
	AAA.
	You know, the Green Bay Packers.
	Who knew what funded this?
	So what you're talking about is so critical.
	It's not just fraud in the Christian sin part.
	It's essential.
	It's a contamination.
	It's a cancer.
	That affects everything.
	And if you get rid of that cancer, you clean things up.
	Yeah, and the beauty here is that you don't need a new law.
	You don't need a new regulation.
	All you need to do is enforce.
	First, you need to enforce the existing regulations and laws.
	And then you need to go back and say, why weren't these laws enforced?
	For example, New York City and state have, as you know well, have a raft of laws.
	The charity statutes in New York are very old.
	Because the tax rates in New York are very high.
	And charity activity in theory is good.
	But if it's actually fraud, it's costing the city and the state and the federal government a lot of money.
	So one of the things that the feds don't do properly, you know, they force publicly traded companies to issue quarterly reports.
	But with charities, you can get away, if we're in 2025 and we're on a calendar year, our report to the public.
	It can be delayed until November 15, 26, i.e.
	after an election.
	So if you're running a campaign where you really wouldn't want to tell the voters in 2006 that to be reelected, Bill and the Democrats and Terry McAuliffe, who are on the board of the Clinton Foundation, have been using the Clinton Foundation to gain contributions to help finance these very expensive races after the 2000 debacle and the 2004 debacle.
	You wouldn't want to reveal the true state of the Clinton Foundation prior to Hillary's chances to being reelected, even though she was a shoo-in because New York City and state are so heavily Democratic.
	So the reporting stinks generally, but the statutes, and you look this up, the New York State Attorney General Charity Bureau, in New York State, if you have a material change in a charity that's...
	You know, there's something bad happening.
	You're supposed to tell the public within 30 days that, you know, you can't wait until November 15, 2026.
	So when you figure out, as they did in 2011, as Simpson Thatcher did when they did that review, that this thing has been operating under various names without registering, without articles, without soliciting billions of dollars and taking same in without ever accounting for it, you're supposed to drop everything and tell the public, hey, wait a minute.
	We had a serious problem here.
	And expose the magnitude of the problem.
	You're supposed to do that.
	And, of course, they haven't done it.
	In fact, what they did, I think, what the people around this blob probably did is they said, Bill Clinton is a very useful marketing dude.
	He can raise a lot of money.
	He's got contacts all over the place.
	We own this family now.
	We own them.
	We can decide any moment to put them all away.
	How valuable is that to the FBI, CIA, NSA, and other foreign intelligence operations?
	I think it's very valuable.
	And I think there needs to be...
	No, I'm sorry.
	There just needs to be a factual, deep dive into how this got to the place that it was in.
	And it could be broader than just the Clintons.
	I think it's a fair question to ask.
	In this day and age, look what we're doing over the Internet.
	Why do we need presidential libraries?
	Why don't we say, you know, we could put a tremendous amount of information just online.
	Why do we need to create a new building that has to be heated and cooled and maintained and policed and all that kind of stuff?
	Let's move away from this idea.
	And let's eliminate.
	I regard these presidential libraries the way they're run.
	It's almost like you're creating a duke, a dukedom, you know, because here you have the Clinton Foundation.
	And they go so far as to say, these idiots, when you and I were talking about this, I didn't know this.
	In November 2nd, 2013, and September 10th, 2015, to try to correct this problem, they created amended bylaws out of thin air.
	They didn't have bylaws before.
	Disappeared on April 25, 2005.
	So they installed DoDOT bylaws that created two classes of director.
	Class A directors were the Clinton family, and they had responsibility for running the foundation in between board meetings, which were infrequent, and decisions made in between board meetings by the Clinton family were not subject to any kind of review by these bylaws.
	That's strictly illegal for a public.
	I like that.
	They did it twice.
	Now, by the way, before we forget, by the way, with that dukedom, is that a duchy?
	No, I passed the duchy.
	The question I have is, Charles, we haven't even gotten into the AIDS business.
	Right.
	Because you mentioned, this is just the library.
	Right.
	We haven't gotten into the Clinton Global Initiative and the Clinton Health.
	Access initiative.
	I always think of Chai Tea or something.
	And how at the time when Haiti, AIDS, Sean Penn, Oprah Winfrey, you know, just children and this.
	It's almost like you want to grab the watch and you're mesmerized.
	You just see this.
	And people are so...
	They go into this almost like a patellar, this, oh my God, like you said before.
	I don't want to overly bombard people with this, but the AIDS stuff is even wilder.
	Can you condense that into 20 words?
	Sure, sure.
	So, you know, when we were growing up in the 70s, I remember in the early 80s, the first property I bought was in a small town called Hankrum, New York.
	I remember I was very happy I bought it.
	And then I bought it in April.
	And then the mosquitoes started coming.
	And then I remember there was a local newspaper, the Rojan something or other, and a headline, Mosquitoes will spread AIDS.
	And the thing was, oh, my God, what is going on here?
	I mean, people really didn't understand much about AIDS back then.
	And as often happens in an early experimentation period, drugs that are touted as being helpful and effective sometimes turn out to be really very dangerous.
	And John Solomon was among the first to focus on this.
	He was attacked relentlessly.
	There was another lady whose name I'm forgetting now who had a great piece in the Harper's.
	She was attacked viciously for calling into question drugs that were routinely prescribed to treat AIDS patients, people with HIV.
	And this is not settled science.
	Actually, Fauci is very much in the center of this mess as well.
	So the long and short of it is that today, in 2025, if you are HIV positive, even if you're, let's say, 18 years old, chances are you're going to die of something else if you take these antiretroviral drugs and if you are in the care, of a physician and a nurse and hospital beds and you have clean water and sanitary conditions, you're probably going to live out your life.
	You're going to have to pay for these drugs But back in the 90s, when Bill and the Clinton administration actually opposed the use of generic drugs to treat AIDS, there was a company called CIPLA, which had this idea well before Bill Clinton.
	And went down a track with the South African government trying to do just this.
	And the Western-branded pharmaceutical companies said, no, we're not having any of that.
	You know, we want these Western health systems to pay $20,000 a year for these branded things.
	Screw you, we're not going to help.
	So Bill was on the wrong side of that when he was president.
	Had remorse.
	And I think our magaziner and Rajat Gupta, the head of McKinsey, as a guest, We can bring the price of these drugs that are every bit the same as the branded drugs down
	to like $200 a year or $165 a year.
	I've spent a fair amount of time in Africa.
	I'm going to go back this year.
	The African continent is gigantic.
	The infrastructure there for all the money that has been sent in aid is still awful.
	And the challenge when you treat HIV and AIDS, you must have access to reliable electricity to keep your refrigerators in your system, you know, cool when it's very hot.
	You've got to be able to.
	You get to a hospital, which there are not a lot of roads, paved roads in Africa even today.
	But back in 2002 and 2001, when Bill and Ira Magaziner and Rajat Gupta and Chelsea Clinton were rushing around the world saying, we've got this problem, $20,000 per patient to treat.
	Africans just don't have that kind of money.
	Let's create the Global Fund in Geneva, which George W. Bush, Foolishly agreed to give $15 billion towards that thing.
	Let's give that money a ton of money.
	Let's put it under that body a ton of money.
	Let's put it under the WHO so it's insulated from any real scrutiny.
	And let's let Bill Clinton and a bunch of useful idiots, including Chelsea, go around the world saying what great things they're doing while we steal as much of that money as possible.
	Insiders have credibly suggested that 75% of the money that has gone to the Global Fund To fight AIDS and other diseases has been stolen by insiders.
	75 billion percent.
	Roughly 75 billion.
	So the real tale and what got my blood boiling was when I learned that Runboxy was a major provider of these generic medicines that by August of 2004, scant months before the Clinton Foundation opened up that library, And about two years into a process where Bill Clinton and Ira Magaziner were working with Ram Boxing, this book by Catherine Ebon called Bottle of Lies.
	Catherine Ebon is a Rhodes Scholar, lefty, living in Brooklyn, with her architect husband.
	Goes into some of these issues, but it's a limited hangout.
	She's friendly with Magaziner.
	She doesn't really punch as hard as she should here.
	At some point, and Bill tells the story that he began this crusade with Magaziner in the Bahamas in 2002, providing drugs.
	And I believe these were Ramboxi drugs.
	And then you get to August of 2004, in South Africa, somebody had noticed, had bothered to check these drugs, and it raised questions from the South African government to the World Health Organization that got back to Ramboxi, saying, you know, these drugs that you provided, Don't seem to actually work.
	And then they went in, this book goes very, goes chapter and verse.
	It has an insider in Runboxy.
	There's a lot of information that it references.
	And ultimately, Runboxy was forced in May of 2013 to pay a $500 million fine.
	I think they should have probably had to pay a $25 billion fine.
	But anyway, the man who cut that deal was Ron Rosenstein.
	You know, I think letting Runboxy off the hook.
	And why?
	Because I think...
	The public would be shocked to know how much Dirty Medicine, which was the title of Catherine Ebon's magazine article that preceded the book that she just wrote.
	Now, Rosenstein was the FBI...
	Rosenstein was the deputy attorney general under...
	Attorney general, excuse me.
	Yeah, and the head of the FBI reports to him.
	Right, right.
	Prior to that, Rosenstein was in charge of deciding which frauds get prosecuted.
	Back when the FBI and Comey, leading the charge first at U.S. Attorney in Southern District of New York and then as Deputy Attorney General, when I got into the Clinton Foundation, I'm not bragging, but it's going to sound like bragging, I looked at the file and in two weeks I could tell it was a fraud.
	And I don't have assistants, I don't have researchers working for me, it's just obvious.
	So what is it?
	Is it just...
	Okay, Dr. Orgel, diagnose it.
	Is it ignorance, ennui, disinformation, torpor?
	What is it?
	Lethargy?
	Well, the mainstream media, until recently, was easy to gain.
	You know, you think about the big publishing houses.
	I forget which one exactly, but one or two of the biggest publishing houses are controlled by what?
	By foundations, European foundations, right?
	So you do a book that blows up crooked foundations.
	How is that going to impact the publishing house?
	And these big publishing houses, the industry is so concentrated.
	Then you know a lot about mainstream media.
	The people who make the decisions about who's a guest and who isn't a guest, who gets favorable treatment, who doesn't, it's a small group of people.
	And they all lean heavily left.
	Most of them have TDS.
	Most of their advertising budgets are shrinking.
	Their audiences are shrinking.
	But back in the day, it was pretty easy to game that system.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Talking a little bit about the Clinton Global Initiative, that was something that...
	It grew out of Bill and Hillary Clinton's experience with something called Renaissance Weekend, which I think is down in North Carolina.
	By the way, was the prior Rimbaxi, was that CHI, was that Health Access Initiative?
	They are, yeah.
	So as usual, what Bill did is he decided, and meetings occurred in Harlem in the New York office, so the Attorney General in New York would have jurisdiction.
	He just, with Magaziner, he just created what he called an initiative.
	And by July, August 2002, in New York and in Boston, there was no legal entity.
	There was no authority to do this.
	And in a book written by Joe Conison, it talks about how Ira Magaziner, quote, invested in this initiative, gave the guys a million dollars because Bill said he didn't have any money to start this thing off.
	Now, what did Magaziner get back in return from that?
	We don't know.
	No one has ever been able to look at his consulting practice.
	What other clients did he get by swanning around the world saying, all right, good guy, look what I do with this HIV stuff with Bill.
	Nobody knows, but he's a very rich man.
	So they start with no authority, no legal structure.
	They open up an account and they create a foundation in the Bahamas in 2002, I think, called, I don't know, I think it's Clinton Foundation, or it might have been William J. Clinton Presidential Foundation.
	like that they start opening up subsidiaries in africa they have no authority to do any of this and then somebody comes along and says hey bill you're not going to get this money out ofireland that was agreed with the t-shirt the leader of the country birdie ahern in july of 2003 the big press announcementireland's going to send 100 million dollars some large amount of money through the clinton foundation to fight aids in africa well
	You know, I have the internal back and forth of the team that was working around Bertie O 'Hearn and the team saying, you know, we don't see any evidence that there's actually a foundation here and, you know, we've got to get this right.
	By March of 2004, they filed an application for a supposed subsidiary called Clinton Foundation HIV AIDS Initiative, Inc.
	to get tax exemption.
	There's no record that that subsidiary ever...
	It was granted tax exemption.
	In fact, I think it was denied.
	And they kept raising money, and Bill kept doing press releases, bragging about his accomplishments.
	So they decide the solution is, prior to the election in 2006, when Hillary needs to get re-elected, the solution is we're going to merge this Clinton Foundation HIV-AIDS initiative into the parent company.
	Neither entity lawfully existed at the time.
	Neither was a charity empowered to do what they did.
	But they just slapped the two together.
	It's like smoke merging.
	Two non-corporal things merging.
	It's wild.
	And they backdate it.
	They say the thing occurred back to the end of 2005.
	They backdate it.
	And then somebody says, you know what, guys?
	We don't see an audit.
	You're supposed to put an audit together.
	We don't see an audit here in your files.
	You better get one together.
	So they get a crooked firm, BKD.
	It's merged out of existence now.
	You get a crooked firm to produce a crooked audit that a first-year student, a freshman in accounting class, in 30 minutes could see through this audit.
	I was able to do that a long time ago.
	This is really nitty-gritty, boring stuff for most people, but take my word, and I can defend my word, that the first audit and every subsequent audit is not even garbage.
	At least garbage can be composted.
	Ridiculous.
	And they put this thing out there.
	And why did they go through all this effort?
	Because they needed to get the Unitaid pipeline.
	Unitaid was the brainchild of the French, Chirac, and the English, who saw the Global Fund go from an idea to an entity that had tens of billions of dollars.
	And they said, we could do that.
	You know, we'll set up our own Global Fund.
	We'll call it Unitaid.
	The French committed a lot of money.
	The Brits committed a lot of money.
	All this money was there, but they didn't have any projects.
	And Bill comes along and says, I've got projects.
	And so they're deeply down a chain.
	Lots of probably caviar parties and fancy catered banquets around the World Health Organization, the different donor governments.
	All these press releases saying they're going to do it.
	But the Clinton Foundation has no authority to do any of this.
	And nonetheless, they form UNITE September.
	Around the time of the Clinton Global Initiative in 2006, they've announced the formation, they've funded Unitate, and hundreds of millions of dollars goes towards the Clinton Foundation AIDS Initiative, which has never been accounted for.
	And there's been an internal investigation, of course, in French, of this, but the results, the final results have never been made broadly public.
	How much money, if you had to bet...
	How much money do you think Bill and or...
	Is this Bill or is this Hillary?
	Who is the reason?
	Because I always thought Bill really wasn't into the money.
	It was Hillary.
	Every time I hear that, that's a classic warning sign for Freud.
	Oh, he's not really interested in money.
	No, that's why he's private, has four mansions, has this incredible staff that somebody else is paying for, has a butler.
	Yeah, that's why he doesn't like money.
	Come on.
	This is a guy who grew up poor, who was scarred by that experience, who now has come close to money.
	I think he's actually been scammed.
	He's a cheater.
	He didn't price his services properly.
	He should be worth $10 billion.
	And I think he's worth $250 million or something like that.
	But Bill...
	You can see it, actually, when you really get into the long trail, which is going to be one or more books by the time I get done with this, there's a pattern.
	You know, Hillary, back in the days when she was on that Watergate committee, finds this precedent, according to reports, there's only one copy of the book, and it would be helpful to Nixon.
	So she steals the book.
	So nobody can look at it.
	That's the allegation.
	You have incriminating evidence, you bury it.
	You know, you don't put it in the public record.
	To give you a little vignette I didn't know about when we were together, if you go and you look at the 2005 audit, the 990 and audit on the Clinton Foundation website, the 990 that is on there is a fake.
	It's dated December 20th, 2006.
	That's not the real 990.
	And it excludes the fake and incriminating bylaws that were adopted April 25th, in theory, 2005, gutting.
	Along with the articles change, gutting the legal viability of the entity.
	So those documents are excluded on the Clinton Foundation version, but available on the ProPublica version.
	And the real filing date is either November 3rd or November 8th.
	I can't really tell from the stamp.
	2006, not December 20th, 2006, which you can't do.
	You can't file past the final filing deadline.
	So that's still up there right now as we're talking.
	And there's a lot of, you know, forged, fake.
	Documents that are on there, and there are many documents that are critical that are not on their website.
	Let me ask you a question, which is, just for one second, let's put Bill, you've got to hand it to Joe Biden.
	Joe Biden says, I'm going to take the money now.
	I'm not going to wait until later.
	I'm not going to worry about that.
	I'm going to take my drug-addled son.
	We're going to go to Burisma.
	I'm going to steal it.
	It's chump change compared to what these people are doing.
	But he does it right in front of everybody.
	It's like sleight of hand who says, watch me.
	Let me show you what I do.
	And he tells everybody this is how he is not prosecuted because it's not even a fraud.
	It's just theft.
	The Obamas, don't you think, were a little bit more clever?
	They kind of waited for the back end.
	They waited until later on, after they're out.
	They got these Netflix deals in the books.
	Don't you think, of the three, Bill was maybe more of the organized crime.
	Joe Biden was kind of like a street thug.
	And somewhere in the middle might have been...
	Do you think the Obamas were at all?
	I know it's a stupid question.
	Fraudulent as much as these folks were?
	Every bit as much so.
	So there's a guy called Bob Barnett, who is a partner at Williams& Connelly, and he is very famous in the media industry for migrating from being a lawyer, evidently he is a smart and serious guy, into being an agent, a book agent.
	So he doesn't get 15%.
	He charges his very expensive rates.
	But he can take...
	You know, he only deals with the great writers, and he can take somebody out of obscurity, deem them to be great, and get them these fantastic book and other media deals.
	And he brags about, on the Williams and Connolly website, I don't understand why he does this, he brags about his specialty being assisting politicians in re-entering the private sector after their public service.
	I mean, that is not something I'd be bragging about.
	Oh, wow!
	Wow!
	And it's bipartisan.
	I mean, he's helped Laura Bush get book deals and the Bushes.
	So there's a program.
	If you play with the swamp and you're a senior person, you get your book deal.
	If you want to be an anchor, you can be an anchor.
	If you really are crafty, we'll put you in bed with the various private equity and hedge fund types.
	And they all want to have a senator or a governor or a president or whatever on their advisory board.
	So we'll get you that kind of deal.
	All that stuff needs to be rolled up.
	I mean, if you want to talk about being a lifetime of public service, you should sacrifice.
	That's service.
	And it shouldn't just be a province for rich people.
	I mean, you should be paid enough that you can live well, not in multiple homes, not in a townhouse, but you should have it in the public sector enough to live on, to save for retirement, to take care of your family.
	It shouldn't be a pathway where you can go from being a bartender, an idiot, I mean, that's just wrong.
	There's an arc for these public servants that, that, you know, the examples have been set.
	Ronald Reagan was wealthy before he was president.
	You know, he had been an actor.
	He'd been, you know, he'd put money together.
	Um, certainly Trump was wealthy, but Barack Obama was not.
	And, uh, George H.W. Bush's family was, so W was, but W's, the arc of his history, I got into this in some depth looking at GE to try to understand why people covered up the GE mess.
	George W. Bush has major league skeletons in his background with the Harkin Energy deal, which was crooked as hell, not for the reasons people understand to date, but because I think that It seems to me that people around George W. Bush secured a loan from a Texas bank that I think went under later to buy an interest in the Texas Rangers pledging stock that had already been pledged to the corporation itself.
	That's fraud.
	And with that money, that's the substance of W.'s wealth, that deal.
	He borrows his money.
	Texas Rangers is a success.
	He ends up with, I don't know, 12 or 15 million bucks.
	So there are a lot of really dodgy practices.
	And of all people, for example, under Obama, Obama makes a big deal when he's president.
	I'm going to have an ethics czar.
	Who does he make his ethics czar?
	Norm Eisen.
	Norm Eisen was his ethics czar.
	You don't need to know anything more than that.
	By the way, just as an aside, Richard Nixon, supposedly this incredibly corrupt person, he wasn't moneybags.
	He lived, I think, on Saddle River.
	He was kind of a regular guy who just was a scholar.
	You know, the more I listen more to his lectures post-election, post-term, if you will, and he seemed like, fascinating to me, The double-cross and how Woodward and the Intel folks did him.
	Anyway, I don't want to get off into that.
	Let us, by the way, this is to be continued.
	We've only been doing this an hour and six minutes, and I'm sure you've got stuff to do.
	First of all, I want to thank you for this.
	But do you ever, if you had to speak for the American people and say, okay, Artel, I'm going to give you three things to do.
	President Trump got me on the phone, and he's going to appoint you as whatever, whatever czar you want.
	What are the three things or two or whatever that we need to do immediately to fix it?
	Or is this just too far gone?
	I think we need to make education great again.
	And we need to take these universities.
	I went to Harvard and Yale as two examples.
	They're hopeless.
	We need to go to these great institutions and say, listen, you have become partisan training grounds.
	For the Democrat Party and to a lesser extent for the Republican Party, but primarily Democrat.
	You're not educating.
	You're indoctrinating your students.
	You're paying yourselves way too much money.
	You have these gigantic endowments.
	The cost of your tuition is inexorably going up.
	It should go down.
	And you're pumping out crap.
	These peer-reviewed things are not, you know, a third to a fifth of them are all wrong, you know, manifestly wrong.
	I wouldn't want to destroy Harvard and Yale.
	I'd say you have two years to reform.
	And within two years, you've got to have a faculty that represents a third Democrat, a third Republican, and a third Independent, if that's the right mix.
	You've got to punish the plagiarists.
	The former president of Harvard's got to go to jail.
	Oh, oh.
	Right?
	You can't say, yes, well, she stepped down as president, but we're going to pay her a million a year because she's a plagiarist.
	No.
	You've got to reform all that.
	It's very important, because it's going to take some time, and it might be possible to make a lot of progress before Trump leaves, because you see the people who show up for the BLM rallies, and now the Palestine rallies, the students with the blue hair, the nose rings, and all that stuff.
	They are the product of these rancid partisan hacks who are teaching our children garbage.
	Oh, by the way, look at the woman who was the head of BLM, Colors, was she produced one of her colors?
	Never audited, never anything.
	We also have...
	Yeah, and I never understand how, for example, Antifa was never considered some type of a terrorist organization.
	And I'm kind of split.
	I don't know where to go in terms of free speech anymore.
	I don't necessarily know why.
	If somebody says something against Israel, they're anti-Semitic, but I know anti-Semitism is there.
	That's another issue.
	I think...
	We're going to see this move to places like Hillsdale College or maybe places like back to the University of Chicago in the old days when others were there.
	But that's a different story.
	What would you do in terms of changing the culture?
	Because you know what, Charles, what scares me the most is this.
	Somebody would say, you know, Wartell, you talk a lot of crap.
	You're talking about something that is so far gone.
	So, you know the expression where they say the house is so riddled with termites, the termites are holding it up?
	You have a system that is fraud upon fraud upon fraud.
	If you start pulling this out, there's nothing there.
	There is no, there is.
	So, you're barking at the wrong tree, you're living in a pipe dream.
	Nice try, buddy.
	I would violently disagree, not with actual violence, but no.
	If you look around the world, I left America.
	I'm in Malaysia right now.
	And this is where I am, is booming with opportunity, real opportunity.
	People are making things and providing actual services and pushing the frontiers of knowledge.
	When you look across Europe, Europe is doomed.
	Western Europe is in a death spiral.
	In contrast, people around the world are looking at a large, actually unified market, business people.
	And they're saying, you know what?
	Europe is crumbling.
	Trump is going to force people to make things again and provide services again inside the United States of America where energy is cheap, where there is a semblance, at least there are laws and regulations.
	There are a lot of people who are very much in favor of making America great again.
	And so I think the media is going to punch out, the established media is not going to cover the investments.
	The potential, you look at Musk, and I think Tesla stock at its current level is overvalued, even though it's way down for where it was.
	But here's somebody who's an immigrant, right?
	And he has come into this country at a young age and revolutionized the financial payments industry and now all these other different things.
	I don't understand how he just simply takes care of his kids, let alone all these other jobs that he's doing at the same time.
	That's the platform that's available to people who want to punch above their weight inside the United States of America.
	And people who want to punch above their weight exist in America and around the world and say, you know, I want in.
	I want that $5 million program if it comes to it.
	So I think we're getting a flood of talent into this country.
	Good.
	I am betting personally that we're going to win.
	It's going to be tougher.
	It's going to take longer.
	There are going to be moments of great anxiety, as there were during the Revolutionary War.
	If you go back to the history of the decision to take on the greatest naval power at the time from a place that wasn't really well developed, it was a pretty heroic decision, and for a time it looked like the revolutionaries would lose.
	So we're going to have our pre-Valley Forge moments in the second Trump administration, but I think decent people look at this garbage.
	The polls reflect the fact that 80% roughly are in favor of what Musk and Trump are doing to try to...
	to get the waste and the fraud out of government.
	Now we need to make examples of the worst offenders.
	There's a guy called Senator William Proxmire.
	He used to every year.
	Sure, Golden Fleece.
	We need to do we need we could do a television show.
	You could actually have you get scrap 60 minutes because nobody, nobody's saying watches that and do a show where every week you allow the fraudster to.
	To tell that person's side of the story of why they think they're doing good at the Institute of Peace, for example, or USAID.
	Just pick or clinch that issue.
	Let them start and say, these are the great things I've done.
	And then you reveal the truth to the public.
	And then the public decides the punishment.
	Is it El Salvador prison?
	Of course you're going to lose all your money and there are going to be fines.
	But you do that every week.
	You know, it's funny you say that.
	I am of the...
	One of my biggest fears is that President Trump is not vicious enough.
	I think he's got a good heart.
	I think he is surrounded by a lot of people who are very, very...
	He trusts them.
	Trust to him is very important.
	But Charles, as you know, sometimes trust alone without kind of the savvy.
	I think Pam Bondi, by the way, I've known her for years from my hometown.
	She's terrific.
	There is this kind of a ruthlessness that we need.
	Right now, we have a couple of things going on.
	First of all, we have people going after Tesla.
	Okay, forget the fact that it's Tesla.
	We have cars that could contain people.
	And there is kind of like a dog whistle or something that has said, it's okay.
	You have the Daily Show.
	You have pockets of people who are laughing at this.
	Charles, we live in a world where a person, Luigi Mangioni, hunts down, shoots this president of this, or head of this, CEO of this insurance company, and he's lauded as a hero.
	Now, imagine if I were to go out and I were to say, you know, Charles, I'm a right to life, or I believe that life begins at conception, and I went and I just blew up an abortion clinic.
	Or, I found out that there's a company that is making Plan B, basically, or whatever it is, some type of an abortion pill, and I stalked and shot that person.
	People would look at me and they would say, you can't do this.
	But yet, this mindset, not by most Democrats, but a significant group of them, are part of this...
	You know, like when you see starlings, the murmurations, you see them move.
	And that...
	Can only be stopped if Pam Bondy issues a night of a thousand long knives or whatever it is, a thousand cuts, whatever your particular name is, and show people we're going to hit you with, you know, here in New York, during January 6th, I don't know if you were here then, but right around that time, they had billboards on the New Jersey Turnpike that said, did you know anybody who was in Washington during January 6th?
	Call us.
	Call the FBI.
	If all of a sudden Pam Bondi said, if you know anybody who's involved in this Tesla thing, if you know anybody who's involved in it, scare the hell out of them.
	Pull out arcane statutes with 25-year minimum mandatories.
	I mean, have them say, holy God!
	Because that's the only way they will know we mean business.
	Well, I think, you know, not just because I come from a finance background, but I think you need to pick the worst examples.
	The people who are out, the Jasmine Crockett's, people like that, you know, loudmouths who are plainly inciting violence.
	But the real conversations need to start.
	You need to show up at George Soros' house with 20 FBI agents, whatever, 530 in the morning.
	He's probably going to be up by then wherever he is.
	And you need to read him the riot act.
	You know, having gone through his 990s, I mean, I went through years ago a 990, and he's got a son that is up in what was up in my neck of the woods, and I had a girlfriend at the time who was into horses.
	And I'm going down the grants, and I see they listed a payment to a tax shop, you know, for horseback riding equipment as a grant.
	That's not a grant.
	You know, and if I can find that in my, and they've donated to the Clinton Foundation.
	So there's multiple ways you could roll up the Soros Network.
	Take Soros, Hoffman, Gates, you know, these people, pick some Republicans.
	Anybody who's, you know, the American Conservative Union, as I've said, is an epic fraud.
	The CPAC meeting is just like the Clinton Global Initiative.
	It is not charity.
	And people around you are making money.
	They're making money off of the Republic of naive Republicans.
	Frankly, that CPAC has become a place you have to go.
	You want to be president of the United States.
	is a Republican.
	You've got to win the straw poll.
	Thank you.
	Everyone understands that it needs to be canceled.
	I say that as somebody, when I was at Yale, I was chairman of the Conservative Party in 1974, the Yale Political Union, and an inspiration for that party was Bill Buckley and the American Conservative Union.
	I went through that paper, our mutual friend, Jason Goodman, Crowdsourced the truth, was invited to that meeting, got there, they kicked him out of the meeting.
	And that caused me to say, wait a minute, what is going on?
	We looked, we've done shows on this, we've been through their paperwork.
	It's really ugly when you get into the history of the ACU.
	So you need to go through this, pick your examples carefully, and not go in and say to Hillary Clinton, Well, you know, we think that maybe you were Secretary of State, 100% of your email traffic was over private servers, using unsecured.
	We want you to come in for an interview, but it's not going to be under oath.
	None of that.
	You can have lawyers in the room.
	No.
	You know, no.
	You've had the benefit of the doubt for almost 50 years now.
	Maybe exactly 50 years.
	No.
	You know, we're going to round you people up.
	And, you know, Soros is now in his 90s.
	In 2008, I was in a tennis tournament in the Bahamas.
	He was there at a club, and he had all these fancy people with him, and I was with fancier people, and he was foot-falling in the tennis tournament.
	So in a very loud voice, I go, foot-fall!
	And the supporters thought, who is this guy?
	And they looked at me, and standing next to me was Sean Connery, the chairman of the club, all these other people.
	You know, he didn't win the tournament.
	Let's just put it that way.
	And he's not a member of that club.
	But, you know, he and people who think that they framed this globalist architecture where there is no global taxing authority, there is no global policeman.
	So these monopolists and Schwab and Klaus Schwab and people like that, they think they can create this system.
	They control.
	They're the puppeteers.
	The private sector worker gets crushed in this.
	The insiders get richer and richer.
	And Bill Clinton and the others take the crumbs.
	The American public is not supportive of that.
	Charles Ortel, I've got to tell you one thing.
	I'll never forget.
	I don't want to mention names, but we happened to be one time in a particular green room, and it was when Donald Trump was speaking.
	There was a friend of ours, a mutual associate, who was, as left as you can be, a legitimate actual socialist.
	Proudly.
	Not a nut.
	So he was sitting there.
	I'm here.
	And you, with your background, your bona fide, he's a financier, more conservative.
	And we sat there.
	And I saw you and he were both in agreement that Donald Trump was one of the best things in this country.
	He said, this man is going to invigorate the working man, the force.
	He's great.
	But here we have this socialist.
	And you had the same opinion.
	Not the same reason.
	I believe Donald Trump is transformative.
	This guy came along.
	I don't know what, in terms of music, if he's the Beatles, if he's Beethoven, if he's Duke Ellington.
	I don't know what it is.
	It all changed.
	He invigorated an American spirit that people have never had before.
	If I told you that you would live in a time when people would be waiting over 24 hours or more to hear a president speak, At a rally.
	That he spoke basically the prior week.
	It's not a novel thing.
	You kind of know that.
	Where he went in and did everything wrong.
	Said the wrong things.
	But inspired.
	Hit the core.
	I don't know what it is.
	He amazes me.
	And yet at the same time.
	Can go in.
	And within a minute.
	Either find the part of your heart that shows this inspired devotion and respect, or detestation and...
	I mean, he can drive people crazy.
	There's no in-between.
	There's no, well, take him or leave him.
	I've never seen literally polarizing.
	TDS, I think, is an actual DSM-5 designation now.
	He's the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my life.
	And it's only been, as we speak today, 60 days.
	He's only been in office with the Secretary 60 days.
	It's incredible.
	Right.
	Well, I think it's like you have a dysfunctional family, which under Biden, we were led by a dysfunctional family.
	To turn that around, you need some tough love.
	And that's what Trump is bringing to the equation.
	Tough love.
	And when you and I were first talking about the Clinton Foundation and charity fraud, That was a long time ago.
	It was nine years ago.
	And at that time, I don't think the public was really ready to unpack and understand how deep the rot actually is.
	When I heard the first returns out of Doge, I was delighted because I was concerned that a lot of the spending, the government spending, was stuff that we had to keep doing.
	You know, the story of Social Security that they're all obviously dead.
	People collecting checks.
	I mean, if that's true, and I haven't seen the actual evidence and whatever, but if it is true, and I suspect it is true, we can easily fix Social Security and make sure that it's solvent.
	And by hunting down these grifters...
	In these agencies, some agency in Washington, D.C. was just shut down, a special building that, you know, all these people were living in suites with their own bathrooms, and if they showed up for work and having paintings of themselves and flying private, that stuff has just got to stop.
	It's got to stop.
	I was in England at Claridge's Hotel, a fancy place in, I don't know, it was probably 90, it was a time when Columbia, the country, was in deep trouble.
	And I like to sit in the lobby and just see who was there.
	I was waiting for somebody for dinner.
	And I look up at the top of the stairs, and there's the president of Colombia.
	You know, the cartels or whatever are after him.
	And he had four security guards.
	That's it.
	Four.
	You know, easily could have been picked off.
	London being a place you've been there a lot, I'm sure.
	Where there's all kinds of different foreigners there.
	You could easily, an assassin could blend in with the crowd, well-dressed, you could get into the lobby of clarity, and you could shoot the guy.
	He was, you know, by himself.
	Around the same time, actually, earlier in 1992, I was in the Grand Hotel in Stockholm, and I was working on a project with the Wallenberg family, who owned the hotel, and they got me into the hotel.
	There was only person in the hotel who was not in the Secretary of State's delegation for some conference after Bush had lost.
	They took over the whole hotel.
	They had like 400 rooms worth of people in the hotel.
	They made all the taxis in front of the hotel and all the vehicles disappear just to protect Lawrence Eagleburger, the lame duck Secretary of State at some bullshit conference in Stockholm, Sweden.
	The amount of waste, We should be able to get rid of.
	Ordinary people in business, you, I'm sure, are running your businesses.
	You watch every penny.
	You have to.
	And there's a conceit in government that these government pinheads and the people they pay to do their work for them know how to manage your money better than you do.
	And that's wrong.
	It's been proven wrong.
	Absolutely.
	By the way, was Eagleburger the guy with the papers down his paper?
	Was that?
	No.
	Who was it?
	No, no.
	That was the other guy.
	I don't know who you mean.
	I get that.
	You know, these names.
	One is just as bad as the other.
	Charles Ortel, where can people, first of all, people who are going to be mesmerized by this, and we're going to do this again, whether you like it or not, because you're stuck.
	It's been too long.
	Where can we meet you, can find you, follow you, bask in your brilliance?
	Well, I'm on exit at Charles Ortel, and I...
	I'm very active on X. I try to be.
	I do a podcast twice weekly with Jason Goodman at CrowdSource of the Truth.
	We started in June of 2017.
	I think we've now done, because we've done special shows as well, probably a thousand two-hour podcasts.
	You mentioned January 6th.
	Where was I on January 6th?
	Jason and I were in Washington, D.C. Five hours of video he's put together.
	No one in Congress has come to talk to him about it.
	We have Ray Epps on tape and lots of people on tape.
	It's up there on the internet.
	Anybody can see it.
	Those shows, what we do is we do a free show for about 30 minutes on YouTube.
	And then Jason has paid channels and Rumble and Odyssey and Subscribestar and Patreon and stuff like that.
	There's a lot of content out that you can see.
	I have a sub stack that I'm actually...
	Gearing back up, my father passed away in June of 2023, and we had a lot of work to do.
	After that, I had to also move here, so I've been distracted with that.
	But those are the main places you can find me.
	Well, I'm going to have all that available.
	And, of course, your one-woman show, Elena Verdugo, We Hardly Knew Ye.
	Don't want to let the cat out of the bag.
	That's coming up later on.
	You do weigh a tribute to Carmen Miranda.
	And the great Natalie Schaefer, who played Mrs. Howell.
	And I'm making this up as I speak.
	Well, let me tell you something.
	Again, Charles Ortel, just, I, you, it's like time just, we just spoke the other day.
	I can't believe how much time has elapsed.
	And one thing, your ability to remember months and years is the most, unless you've just lived every second of your life committing this time frame to me, I thought that Jordan was good.
	Jim Jordan was pretty good, you know, when he would go through his stuff.
	But you are just uncanny, the months and the years, and it's just, you would be the most wicked witness anybody could ever imagine on the stand.
	Well, actually, it's funny you should say that, because I had an experience in, late in 2018, Larry Doyle and John Moynihan, the Clinton Foundation whistleblowers, were set to testify.
	In the lame duck session of Congress under Mark Meadows, there's good video on that.
	And I, in the beginning of the week, I get a phone call from my daughter saying, you know, mom is going to die soon.
	And obviously that's not a good phone call.
	And I hang that phone call up and the phone rings again.
	Hi, have I reached Charles Artel?
	Yes.
	This is Special Agent So-and-So from the FBI.
	We need to see you as quickly as possible.
	How's your day going?
	I said, how do you think it's going?
	I just found out that my ex-wife is going to die soon, and now the FBI wants to talk to me.
	Not so well.
	So the guy lied to me.
	He said, I'm Washington, D.C. We'd like to see you as soon as possible.
	And I said, well, where?
	Where would you like to see me?
	Should I go to your office?
	And he said, no, no, no.
	We'll meet at the Roosevelt Hotel.
	So we meet there at the Roosevelt Hotel two hours later.
	Now, in the meantime, I had gotten, he provided me names and phone numbers, so I reverse-checked the phone number, and the phone number went to some Hispanic lady.
	He showed me badges.
	The two of them showed me badges, whether they were real or not.
	And he wanted to ask me questions about Peter Smith, the guy who died.
	And whether I was involved raising money for him, was I in contact with Julian Assange because I had that thing on, whatever.
	And the FBI sat me down.
	I had no notes, no nothing.
	Every time they would ask me a question, I'd say, don't you want to understand what I was trying to do with Peter Smith?
	We were trying to expose the Clinton Foundation.
	Oh, we don't have the wheelhouse to look at that.
	And at the end of the interview, that's exactly what the FBI agent said.
	Has anyone ever told you that you have a phenomenal memory?
	And I said, well, no.
	But I grew up, my father was very smart.
	My mother was too.
	But he had this practice from his grandfather and his grandfather of every slip of paper that you ever write a note on, you put the date on at the top of it.
	And that's very, if you do that your whole life, you could put all your notes together.
	A timeline is very useful to have.
	By the way, I've got to ask, who were these people?
	Were they the FBI?
	Who were they?
	I guess they were FBI because there's Jeff Carlson and Hans Monke, two guys who used to be at Epoch Times, put this all together, reached out to me.
	There's an 11-page 302, which is all redacted.
	It's all black that I think you can find out there that memorializes that interview.
	So maybe they were real.
	But it's just shocking to me.
	You know, you think about Ken Starr.
	And his investigation, he had the latitude to go, whatever you find a crime, you go, here I'm sitting down and saying, you know, I've got, you're here because there are news reports about me and this and that.
	Don't you want to understand what I'm really concerned about here?
	Oh, no, we can't look at that.
	You normally don't hear, you normally don't hear like, I don't put you in the category of like Sammy the Bull saying, no, no, no.
	It's this other stuff.
	Listen to me.
	Normally, the witness will say, go with what he's saying, as opposed to, oh, no, no, no, no.
	Well, Charles Ortel, my best to you, my friend.
	Thank you so much for this incredible, an hour and a half of absolute incredible testimony, so to speak.
	We will talk again, and I thank you so much, dear friend.
	Thank you.

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