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Nov. 16, 2023 - Loomer Unleashed - Laura Loomer

02:17:45

LIVE: Laura Loomer vs. Dave Smith Debate: The War Between Israel and HamasLIVE: Laura Loomer vs. Dave Smith Debate: The War Between Israel and Hamas

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	Israel is at war.
	The conflict between Israel and Hamas is rapidly intensifying.
	You don't have to do this.
	More than 1,300 people slaughtered in Israel.
	Chaos, bloodshed, war, terror and death.
	Look what's happening today.
	Gaza is the most surveilled area in the world.
	It's an apartheid state.
	Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which is an offshoot of Hamas.
	Moms were raped in a house while their babies were put in an oven.
	- We will continue to call for a ceasefire, Mr. Chair. - Welcome everybody to the inaugural Zero Hedge Live debate.
	Zero Hedge is a libertarian, anti-establishment, and fiercely independent media platform, which in the past has had its own fair share of adverse encounters with the ruling class and has been censored on multiple occasions by the mainstream media and big tech.
	Sosnick, host of Valuetainment Media with Pat Media with Patrick Beddavid.
	And tonight, I am honored to host the first ever Zero Hedge debate featuring Laura Loomer right here and Dave Smith, who tonight will be discussing the Israel-Palestine conflict.
	Most importantly, thanks to all of you guys out there watching live on X and on Zero Hedge right now.
	We hope you find this debate informative, and we urge you to submit your questions on X.
	Tonight's format will be 90 minutes of commercial-free, hard-hitting, uncensored debate, and we will leave the last 30 minutes open to answer your questions.
	With that being said, let's meet our panelists.
	Laura Loomer, Dave Smith.
	Open-ended, why don't you introduce yourself, give yourselves your bio, let the people know who you are, and most importantly, what side you fall on in this conflict.
	Well, it's great to be here.
	Thank you so much for the opportunity.
	My name is Laura Loomer.
	I'm a conservative investigative journalist.
	I got my career started working undercover with Project Veritas and James O'Keefe.
	And I then launched my own independent media company.
	And a lot of people came to know me through conservative and, I guess, even independents and libertarian circles because I happened to be the most censored banned woman in the world until Elon Musk gave me my ex-account back in December.
	And so I've done a lot of work, you know, combating big tech social media censorship.
	And prior to being banned everywhere, I did a lot of work in the counter jihad movement, exposing the threat of Islamification.
	And now I have recently launched my own show, Loomer Unleashed.
	I ran for Congress as well, twice, in the state of Florida as an America First Republican anti-GOP establishment candidate.
	And now I'm, you know, doing what I can to help get President Trump re-elected in 2024.
	So you're defending which side of this conflict?
	Well, I'm defending the humane side, which is the Israeli side, the anti-Islamic terrorist side.
	And I don't really think that, you know, when you asked me to first participate in this, I said, well, what's the debate, right?
	Because you're either against Hamas, you're either against Islamic terrorism, and you condemn the killing of innocent Jewish people who were essentially ambushed, right, in these attacks on October 7th, or you're going to enable it.
	And so I'm looking forward to hearing everybody's perspective.
	But I think that it's interesting.
	This is a panel of all Jews.
	I understand that all three of us here today are Jews.
	And it's interesting that within the Jewish community, you know, there's 15 million Jews left on this planet.
	And you look at the fact that there's 2 billion Muslims, and yet there's such a fraction, right?
	There's such a fraction within the Jewish community.
	And so as a Jew, right, I'm also really looking forward to kind of further understanding, right, how we got here as Jews, why there's not really much unity, it seems, within the Jewish community in condemning the attacks on our people.
	And I think, What's been very alarming to me is generally you see the left, right, take this position of emboldening and propping up and giving a platform to Islamic jihadists and terrorist sympathizers.
	And I think that since October 7th, I've just become increasingly alarmed at the amount of right-wing voices and even libertarian voices that I've seen try to justify what they call Palestinian liberation.
	And I oppose it.
	Thank you for that intro.
	Dave Smith, give yourself a brief introduction, and obviously you're sort of on the Palestinian side of things, but I don't want to put words in your mouth, so I'll let you explain for yourself.
	Yeah, I don't like this Palestinian flag being behind me.
	I'm not here to represent the Palestinian side.
	I am on the side of freedom and natural rights.
	I am on the side of all non-violent people and I oppose all people who initiate violence against peaceful people.
	I'm Dave Smith.
	I'm a stand-up comedian.
	And a political commentator, a lot of people know me, I'm a regular on the Joe Rogan Experience, and I do a lot of big shows like Your Great Show, with the legend Patrick Bette David, and Timcast, and Glenn Beck, and stuff like that.
	I think that what Laura just said, opening with this kind of, you know, binary of you either support what Hamas did, or you're enabling it, is exactly the problem.
	And it's been the problem in the United States of America for particularly the last 20 years, but probably much longer than that.
	This kind of George W. Bush, you're either with us or against us.
	You either support the war in Iraq or you're Osama bin Laden.
	Those are your two options.
	I'm a strict non-interventionist.
	I also recognize that the situation between Israel and Palestine is enormously complex, with many egregious crimes on both sides.
	And the reason why there's probably some division amongst Jewish people, or there's some division amongst even conservatives and libertarians, is because what's currently happening right now in Gaza is horrific.
	And it's completely inexcusable.
	And innocent babies are dying by the thousands.
	And that's what most people are rejecting.
	Now the idea, I have not, I have, look, the left wing is pretty goofy.
	And there's some goofy takes that you'll hear out of them.
	I have not heard any conservative or any libertarian in any way justifying what Hamas did.
	So let me start off, because I know that question will be asked of me already.
	I don't support Hamas.
	Who do you think I am?
	Benjamin Netanyahu?
	I would never support Hamas as he did actively for years as an intentional strategy to divide the Palestinian movement.
	That's what Benjamin Netanyahu did, and maybe we'll get into that at some point.
	But I don't support anybody who initiates violence against peaceful people.
	I support peace and I support civilization.
	Well, and I also reject this idea that people who say that you're saying that you either condemn Hamas or you don't.
	And then he tried to compare me to George W. Bush and say that I'm an interventionist or that the people who are saying what I said in my opening statement would make me an interventionist.
	I'm not advocating for U.S.
	involvement.
	I'm not advocating for U.S.
	troops on the ground.
	And so before I'm called a warmonger, which you pretty much accused me of being in the tweet that you posted against me a couple of weeks ago prior to this debate.
	And we have that and we can read it here.
	What did I say?
	Well, I'll read it.
	I'll pull it up on my phone.
	Do we have this?
	It was a tweet.
	Do we have the tweet?
	We probably have the tweet.
	Okay.
	It was in response to a tweet I posted in which I said Gaza should be turned into a parking lot.
	And I'm not.
	What did I say, though?
	And I'll read it to you.
	But unfortunately, X, even though they proclaimed to be a free speech platform, made me delete the tweet.
	And so what happened is you had a lot of these pro-Hamas accounts online that were going to they falsely accused me of inciting violence against Palestinian people when I said that Israel had a right to defend itself.
	And we shouldn't be trying to make it an issue of US foreign policy in the terms of, oh, well, whether the United States is going to intervene.
	No, this is about, from the very beginning, it's always been about the United States and the American people and just people all around supporting Israel's right to defend itself.
	You can support Israel's right to defend itself and to completely neutralize Hamas and also take the position of, we don't need to be sending additional aid to Israel.
	We don't need to be putting troops on the ground.
	We don't need to have intervention.
	But there seems to be this idea and this narrative that I find deeply disturbing.
	You opened up your statement by saying, Dave, that it's absolutely horrific what is happening in Gaza.
	It is absolutely horrific what happened in Israel and what happens in Israel on a daily basis, not just because of Hamas, but the threat of Islam.
	And until we actually are able to have an open, honest conversation about what this is all about, Right.
	It's not about land disputes.
	This isn't about the way that the Israelis treat the Palestinians.
	No, this is an ideological war.
	This is an ideological war that has everything to do with the ideology of Islam.
	And I'm hoping that, you know, I can use my my time here today in front of the massive Zero Hedge platform to give people a little bit of an education on Islam, because it's not as simple as talking about, you know, human rights violations or Apartheid, which is, you know, these are some of the talking points that the pro-Palestinian crowd likes to use.
	They never want to talk about the way that Islam subjugates non-believers, right?
	The way that the Hamas Covenant, Hamas of course is the body that controls Gaza.
	There's overwhelming support by the Palestinian people for Hamas, okay?
	There were polls that were recently just conducted by Arab-Palestinian organizations, and I brought those today as citations.
	This is not Zionism.
	This is not Israeli polling.
	These are Palestinian polls that show that if elections were held, you know, among the Palestinian people today, they would call for Mohammed Abbas to resign, and they would vote for and elect Ismail Haniyeh, who's the leader of Hamas.
	So there's overwhelming majority support amongst the Palestinian people as a whole for Hamas.
	So you can't say, right, that the Palestinian people do not support what is happening when the Palestinian people are governed by Hamas.
	And I brought you a copy of the Hamas charter today so that you can see for yourself that this is all about Islam.
	This isn't about Israel, this isn't about water, this isn't about electricity, this isn't about babies.
	This is about the Islamic resistance movement and the Hamas covenant that explicitly calls for the eradication of Israel.
	It says Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it just as it obliterated others before it.
	David, how do you distinguish between Hamas, Palestine, Gaza, the West Bank, everything that's going on?
	I know she just kind of gave a lot of information right there, but this is Israel-Palestine, not necessarily Israel-Hamas, but she sort of positioned that it is actually, in this instance, Israel versus Hamas.
	Well, look, there's a lot to respond to there, but I'd say that, first off, I did not at all imply or suggest that you were an interventionist.
	I didn't suggest that you were George W. Bush or anything like that.
	I'm saying that the oversimplified binary thinking that you demonstrated in your opening statement is the same problematic binary thinking that George W. Bush demonstrated.
	When he said, you're either with us or you're with the terrorists.
	So that was my point.
	And I think that point stands.
	In terms of, it's easy to wave this away and just say, well, it's not about killing babies.
	It's not about a land dispute.
	It's not about any of those things.
	Because in Hamas's founding charter, there are awful things in there.
	I mean, yeah, that just seems to be very convenient for somebody who doesn't want to actually grapple with the fact.
	No, that is the fact.
	Well, hold on.
	You had a long time to talk, so let me just speak to.
	The fact is that decent people who are looking at this situation will be concerned about killing innocent babies.
	Now, in terms of what you said about how do you differentiate Hamas from the Palestinian people, from the people in Gaza, from the people in the West Bank, well, Hamas is not an issue in the West Bank.
	It's not as if they have their freedom there either.
	We can differentiate it as much as we can.
	Between differentiating Adam and Joe Biden.
	And the fact that Joe Biden was elected, and okay, you can give me stuff on that.
	Maybe he wasn't, I don't know, whatever.
	I don't know what you Trump supporters say about the last election.
	It was stolen.
	Trump won.
	Trump 2024.
	Sure, and we can make those assertions, sure.
	Anyway, but I will tell you that no matter who, the idea that if you voted for this government, which by the way, when was the last time Gaza had an election?
	2005?
	2006?
	And that's something we need to discuss.
	Are they ever going to have another election again?
	The vast majority of the population living there didn't vote for them.
	You can say that there were some polls taken.
	Fair enough.
	I mean, we could also go through what the Likud party has in their founding charter.
	And I have that as well.
	It's pretty ugly toward the Palestinians as well.
	For those of you who don't know, the Likud party is Benjamin Netanyahu's party.
	It's more of a right-wing government in Israel.
	The ruling party in Israel, yes.
	And so, look, but all of that is, the logic that if you voted for your government, which I would argue that Hamas is not really a government, but if you argue that you voted for your government and therefore you're on the hook for the crimes of your government, well then congratulations, you have embraced the logic of Osama bin Laden.
	That's not what I said, though.
	No, I didn't say you said that.
	I'm saying if you're making that argument, that's the same argument that Osama bin Laden made.
	That, hey, you elected this government, so Americans, you're on the hook for it.
	And innocent American civilians, well, guess what?
	You're not innocent anymore.
	Because you elected this government that's done all these things to the Muslim world.
	I think for civilized people, what makes a lot more sense is to draw the line at a distinction between those who are initiating violence and those who are not.
	And that's why Hamas is wrong.
	That's why Hamas is completely, even if they have a legitimate beef with the Israeli government, they're completely wrong to target civilians.
	And even if the Israeli government has a legitimate beef with Hamas, as they do, they have no excuse for just slaughtering innocent civilians.
	It's wrong and there's no reason for us to accept that.
	Fair point.
	One thing to you is, who do you, do you place a certain amount of blame on who for this current war that's going on right now?
	Like how would you place blame on this?
	Well, I mean, there's a lot of blame to go around, right?
	So, again, as I was saying, there's blame on anybody who's been violent toward innocent people.
	But if you want to, like, zoom out and look at the history of this situation, then, like, yes, there's a whole lot of blame to go around.
	And the truth is that the Israeli government, say, from its inception, and we could go even earlier than that, but in 1947, when the UN partition recommendation first came out, the Jewish Zionist settlers owned about 10% of the land, okay?
	And the UN recommended that they get 56% of the land.
	And so immediately, the Zionists accepted this agreement, and the Arabs said, no, we don't accept this recommendation from the UN, which by the way, had no authority to just create nations out of nothing.
	And then there was a civil war broke out immediately.
	Other Arab countries intervened as well.
	And in this process, Israel won.
	And 750,000 Muslim Arabs were driven off of their land and never allowed to come back to their homes.
	And so Israel then took over 80%.
	When they were first recommended by the UN 56, which really they had no legitimate right to claim, but then they took over 80%.
	And then in 19... But this idea... Hold on, let me just finish what I'm saying and then we can go.
	Let me finish and then you can talk.
	Then, okay, this was in 1948, then they declared their independence, right?
	Then in 1967, Israel launched a preemptive war, as they call it.
	And they won that again.
	And then they took control of 100% of it.
	And they've had it ever since.
	Isn't that what happens in war, though?
	Well, I mean, look, it has happened throughout history in war.
	But no, the entire tradition of modern Western civilization, particularly post-World War II, has been to reject the idea that you can annex territory through war.
	And again, I'm not saying we didn't do that with the Native Americans.
	There are other examples.
	It happened a lot earlier when that was more permissible.
	But I would say that at least recognize that this is the starting point of it.
	And since 1967, both Gaza and the West Bank have been completely dominated by Israel.
	And if we're going to pretend, like that is not even a factor in why there is this hatred toward Israelis.
	And no, it's just Islamism.
	It has nothing to do with the policy of the Israeli government.
	I think we do that at our own peril.
	Laura, your response?
	It's Islam.
	I will say that we need to have a conversation about Islam.
	And I just read the charter, and look, the Palestinians have been offered solutions multiple times, and they've rejected them, as you said.
	You said yourself that they rejected this resolution in the U.N.
	in 1947, and precisely because they're not happy with anything unless it involves the complete eradication of Israel and the Jewish people.
	And so to say that, oh, we're, you know, we're just not, we're not going to talk about all of these land disputes and we're just going to make it a topic about a conversation about Islam.
	We're doing it at our own peril.
	Well, if you read this Hamash charter, and it's so important for people to understand, you can see within Article 8, okay, Article 8 of their own Hamash charter, and I brought this because it is so important for people to understand this amid all of the propaganda, okay.
	This is, this is what these people believe.
	What year was this first written?
	1988, you can see for yourself.
	They say, Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Quran its constitution, Jihad is its path, and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
	And again, the very beginning opening statement of the Hamas Charter, which majority of the Palestinian people support, okay?
	It says, Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it.
	It doesn't say until Hamas will obliterate it.
	Islam will obliterate it just as it obliterated others before it.
	And so you're not going to, you could give them everything that they wanted.
	The Israelis have given the Palestinians 97, 98, 99% of the line items that they have requested in all of the peace negotiations.
	But the one thing that they want that is never included in those negotiations is the complete annihilation of the 15 million Jews left on this planet.
	And we have to be honest about that.
	People don't want to talk about it because they want to say, not all Muslims.
	Yeah, maybe not all Muslims because majority of Muslims right here in America have probably never read the Quran.
	Okay.
	80% of Muslims on the planet do not speak Arabic.
	Okay.
	A lot of, there's a lot of people that will call themselves a Christian.
	They've never read the Bible.
	There's a lot of people that will call themselves Muslim.
	They've never read the Quran.
	But if you are a true Muslim and one of the 55 majority Muslims in the Muslim majority nations around the world, okay.
	It is a form of apostasy to call for Islamic reformation or interpretation of Islam.
	There's no such thing as radical Islam.
	There's no such thing as moderate Islam.
	There's Islam.
	There's Islam.
	And that's it.
	And that's it.
	As you hear here, I'm going to give you an opportunity to respond.
	Sure, sure.
	But essentially what you're saying is regarding the Hamas Charter, you know, everyone's out there chanting, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
	That's sort of the essence of what the Hamas Charter is.
	Yes.
	When you hear that, how does that make you feel?
	Well, I mean, I don't feel good about that.
	I think it's crazy.
	I mean, look, I think if my argument had been that Hamas are not Islamists, that would be a devastating rebuttal.
	But that's not what my argument is.
	Now, you can go through the history and repeat.
	Listen, I'm Jewish and my grandfather was a Holocaust survivor.
	My mother lived on a kibbutz in Israel for a long time.
	My grandfather was arrested by Nazis in Germany.
	I'm well versed in the Israeli propaganda, but the truth is... This is not propaganda.
	Okay, the truth it is.
	The truth is that if you actually... This is their own charter.
	Okay, well let me talk for a second.
	I am letting you talk, but it's not propaganda.
	I'm not going to let you lie and say that it's propaganda.
	This is their charter.
	No, I'm not lying.
	What I'm saying is... This doesn't come from Israel.
	I didn't say that didn't come from Israel.
	I'm saying the Israeli propaganda is when you say Israel's offered them 98%, 99% of what they want and they just won't take it.
	All this time Israel is dying to give them a stake.
	Like just on the face of it, doesn't that kind of sound ridiculous?
	Whether it was the Oslo Accords, whether it was... Have you ever seen Netanyahu's videotape when he didn't know he was being videotaped when he talked about the Oslo Accords?
	So what did he say?
	He basically said that he snuck so many poison pills into the Oslo Accord that it was completely unworkable.
	But he wasn't part of the Oslo Accord.
	That was Yitzhak Rabin at the time, wasn't it?
	No, he was in the government.
	Yitzhak Rabin was the Prime Minister.
	But he wasn't the Prime Minister.
	But he was talking about how Israel ultimately got to decide what every military zone and danger zone was, and then he defined it as everywhere.
	As the entire West Bank.
	They never really made the offer, and if you care to go look into the history of this, you can figure this out.
	The point isn't that, obviously, Hamas is a radical Islamist organization.
	And by the way, just so we're clear on this, Laura, I'm not denying that there's a problem with radical Islam.
	But it's not radical, it's Islam.
	Okay, whatever you want to call it.
	I'm not denying that there's a problem in the Islamic world.
	I'm not denying... Obviously, you could look through the Islam... I'm a libertarian.
	I believe in natural rights and individual liberty.
	Obviously, I see problems in the world.
	However, if you're going to look at this as an American, or as somebody who's supporting the Israeli point of view, and you're going to say, well, look at these savages.
	They're just so barbaric.
	Does it not give you pause for a moment that Israel The United States of America have for decades been intentionally, strategically, and explicitly supporting the most radical elements of Islam.
	That America has supported Saudi Arabia, the biggest exporter of Wahhabism in the world, that they've funded, armed, and trained Al Qaeda and ISIS, and that it was, and I noticed this didn't get a response at all, that it was Israeli policy to support, prop up, and fund Hamas!
	Okay, so I have a question for you then.
	Who was propping up radical Islam 1,400 years ago?
	Okay, so you don't want to respond to what I just said.
	I just responded to you.
	The United States of America is not 1,400 years old.
	This is such a cop-out.
	It's such a cop-out.
	You didn't respond to what I said at all.
	You just said that this was 1,400 years old.
	You didn't respond to his point and then ask him the question.
	Why don't you address his point and then ask your question?
	That's what I said.
	He said, he said, oh, we don't want to think about, you know, the way that these people feel because of wars, because of wars that have been, you know, inflicted upon them by the United States of America, the war on terror, and, you know... No, that's not what I'm saying.
	But that is, that is kind of the line of thinking that you're taking, right?
	No, it's not.
	You're not responding to what I said.
	I, I just responded.
	Why don't you ask her the question?
	This existed long before the United States of America implemented neocons foreign policy.
	Sure, okay.
	I'll ask the question very clearly, okay?
	If you're going to say that radical Islam, or as you call it, just Islam, is this problem, then how do you feel about the fact for the last, let's say, 60 years, the United States of America and Israel has explicitly funded,
	For stated strategic reasons, the worst elements of radical Islam, Hamas, Al Qaeda, ISIS, Wahhabism, and they've said they're doing it for a reason, to undermine their competing interests in the Muslim world.
	How do you feel about that?
	Can you criticize Israel at all?
	Were they wrong to support Hamas?
	I can criticize Israel- Were they wrong to support Hamas?
	This is an irrelevant question because- You won't answer it?
	You won't say it's wrong to support Hamas?
	Is it wrong if Iran supports Hamas?
	I have obviously said that it is wrong to support Hamas but- So it was wrong when Israel did that?
	The question doesn't really make any sense because when you think about it- How does it not make any sense if Netanyahu was supporting the terrorism?
	The United States government is propping up Islam.
	I'm not denying the fact that our government, we have jihadists on payroll at the FBI.
	I'm not denying this.
	But you can't, your line of thinking and the way that you came to this, you know, came to this argument, Dave, is that, oh, well, you know, when you look at them attacking Israel and you look at the outrage of these people, and I heard your debate with Austin Peterson as well, where you basically said it was an open-air prison, and you where you basically said it was an open-air prison, and you said that they're creating, you know, a fresh recruitment program by bombing these This has existed for 1400 years.
	No it hasn't.
	It hasn't.
	Prior to the creation of the United States government, this is an ideological issue.
	Really?
	You dodged my question again.
	I'm not dodging your question though.
	You are.
	It was a very specific question.
	We can talk about land.
	We can talk about US foreign policy.
	We can talk about the Patriot Act.
	We can talk about the war on terror.
	But at the end of the day, this is an ideological issue.
	And we need to have an honest conversation about Islam.
	So with that being said about Islam.
	Why can't you just answer?
	I did.
	I did answer your question.
	You make no distinguishment between Islam, people who believe in Allah, and just radical Islamists?
	You don't think there's any difference whatsoever?
	It says in this charter that the Quran is their constitution.
	But this is a Hamas' charter though.
	This isn't the Quran.
	But as I just explained, OK, here in the United States of America, people are brainwashed into thinking, right, because we have the First Amendment and freedom of religion here.
	People think, oh, that's how people get to practice Islam in all other parts of the world.
	There's 55 Muslim majority nations.
	OK, if you live in a Muslim majority nation and you're a Muslim and you call for Islamic reformation or you say, oh, you know, I don't really like that part about killing Jews or that part about tossing homosexuals off roofs or, you know, I don't really like that part about killing Christians.
	You will be killed.
	That is a form of apostasy, pushing for reformed versions of Islam.
	And I think you'll agree with me here.
	Yeah, there's lots of places where that's true.
	No, that is the standard in every majority Muslim country.
	And so Americans are not really living in reality, right?
	Because here in the United States of America, you do have what you call reformed Muslims who are able to live here, right?
	But they understand that if they were to do that in their own countries where they came from, they would be killed for doing so.
	So Laura's absolutely right about this, but like, let's actually live in reality.
	So absolutely, I mean look, in Saudi Arabia, it is like, it is the shame of the world that you can be, I mean, they'll cut your arm off for stealing, they execute people for being openly gay, I mean they do things that are just horrific.
	All I'm saying here is that, like, I'm fine with judging them, but when you're going to sit here as an American, a country that our government has maybe a hundred thousand times as much power as the entire Muslim world combined, I mean, we literally here in the United States of America, our president can make a decision, if they wanted to, and any one of these Muslim countries doesn't exist anymore.
	That's it.
	Now I'm not saying we've done that.
	We haven't nuked them.
	We'll just overthrow their government.
	But I'm saying, like, we'll just march in and kill a million of them and then overthrow their government or whatever.
	But if they wanted to, they can snap their fingers and that country no longer exists.
	That's the power imbalance here.
	And with that power, We have propped up the Saudis since the 1970s.
	So I'm fine with like, hey, if you want to sit here and you want to judge other people, look, if we were a perfectly free moral society, I'd be fine with us very sharply criticizing these other countries who just don't have freedom like we have.
	Well, it seems like under Joe Biden, these countries are doing just well.
	I mean, he just allocated another $10 billion of funding to the Iranians today.
	And as we know from reports that have even been confirmed by The Wall Street Journal, That was outrageous, right?
	Yeah, it was.
	And so you want to talk about the United States government?
	Sure.
	Let's talk about it, right?
	Let's talk about how today the Biden administration, we want to talk about a balance of power.
	How about your boy giving billions to the Saudis?
	Was that okay?
	You're not going to get me to defend the Saudis.
	You're not going to get me to- But how about Trump?
	But you won't criticize Trump for doing tens of billions of dollars worth of business with them.
	No, I did criticize it.
	I did criticize it when President Trump was in the White House.
	And this is one of the reasons why I didn't receive the endorsement when I first ran.
	Because I was demonized by the GOP because of my hardline stance on Islam.
	And this is why I got banned on all social media.
	Well, that's fine.
	And good for you if that's the case.
	This is the hill that I'm willing to die on.
	But here isn't this kind of interesting, right?
	Let me just make this point.
	One point for you, David, then we're going over to you.
	So, but as much as you kind of criticized the Palestinians, because look at this opinion poll, they support Hamas.
	But when we're talking about the most radical element in Islam, which is Saudi Arabia, you are actively campaigning for a man who poured in tens of billions of dollars to that country.
	So what responsibility do you face for that?
	Do you face for propping up the most radical form of Islam?
	I'm not personally propping up the most radical form of Islam.
	No, you're just voting for the person.
	No, you're just voting for the guy who does it.
	President Trump, okay, President Trump... See, it's not fair anymore.
	It's not fair anymore to blame you for that.
	No, he obliterated ISIS.
	He carried out the execution of Qasem Soleimani, okay?
	And speaking of relations between the Israelis and the Palestinians...
	You know, President Trump had his historic Abraham Accords and his Peace Through Prosperity program, which, you know, he was trying to implement before the election was stolen, of course, was going to offer financial incentives to the Palestinians because under the Obama administration, you know, prior to President Trump, our government was sending millions of dollars of aid to the Palestinians every single year until, you know, we were able to introduce the Taylor Force Act.
	which prohibited the allocation of funds to the family members of what they like to call the martyrs.
	And so did you know that the United States government was sending millions of dollars of aid to the Palestinians, okay, under the Obama administration, and then every single time one of these jihadists would either murder an American citizen or an Israeli, mostly just a Jew, because let's be honest, that's what they're targeting.
	They didn't care if they were American Jews or Israeli Jews, because in the case of Taylor Force, who was an American, right, he was murdered, he was Jewish.
	They pay their family members.
	They pay their family members.
	And so I'm not going to sit here and allow you to try to demonize- This is the pay for slay that you're talking about.
	The pay for slay program tried to demonize President Trump when President Trump, he was probably the most anti-Islamic terror, the most effective president we've ever had when it comes to combating Islamic terrorism.
	I'll tell you- I will say that.
	And so it's not really nice of you to say that about President Trump.
	That's fine.
	I don't care.
	Because he obliterated, he ordered the killing of Qasem Soleimani.
	It was a terrible decision.
	It wasn't a terrible decision.
	The thing is here is that I'm not a partisan and you are so there's an asymmetry here where you're saying well Obama did this but Trump, yeah Obama was terrible and the worst thing that Obama did in his foreign policy was that he funded and backed Al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria, Libya and Yemen.
	And to Trump's great credit, when Trump first came in, one of the first things he did, and it was one of the best things he did in his administration, was he ended the CIA program to back all the anti-Assad rebels in Syria.
	And this is what opened the door for ISIS to be destroyed, which by the way, a lot of that was also Assad and Vladimir Putin, but I'll give Trump credit, he took part in some of that as well.
	I really give him credit for ending that CIA program.
	But you know what he continued to do through every single day of his administration?
	Was continue Obama's war in Yemen on the side of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.
	So I'm just here where I'm not a Democrat or a Republican, so I can just criticize both of them.
	I don't like either party.
	I can't stand the Republican Party.
	I can't stand the Democrats.
	I'm only registered as a Republican.
	Okay, but you support Trump.
	Yeah.
	I support President Trump, who is hated by the Republican Party, if you haven't noticed.
	But I want to add this, too.
	The reason why President Trump had relations as well with Saudi Arabia is because it was a pivotal part of the Abraham Accords as well.
	And this is one of the reasons why Iran trained the Hamas and Hezbollah operatives to further destabilize peaceful relations between the Israelis and the Palestinians because Iran knows that if they were able to have Saudi Arabia help normalize and be on board with normalized relations between the Israelis and the Palestinians, then it would be a problem.
	If you've got to support a genocide in Yemen in order to get Saudi Arabia to be friends with Israel, that's a good deal.
	You're condemning the attacks on Palestinians, but at the end of the day, President Trump had relations with Saudi Arabia to try to reduce the killing of both Israelis and Palestinians.
	Well, they say the enemy of the enemy is my friend, and that obviously everyone is going against Iran.
	But here's what we want to do right now, Laura, excuse me.
	Here's what we want to do right now.
	We've gone pretty wide on a range of topics.
	Let's kind of steer this back into specifically Israel-Palestine.
	We're going to roll a video from October 7th, just to kind of, so people understand exactly what happened that day.
	We'll let you comment on the other side.
	So obviously October 7th, over 1,200 Israeli civilians, for the most part, were killed by the hands of Hamas.
	The most Jews killed since the Holocaust.
	Let's roll a video of that.
	Do we have that, Eric?
	Well, we don't have it.
	How do they see it?
	I mean, I see it here, but I can't hear it.
	Well, I'm pretty sure they're speaking Arabic.
	I'm fluent.
	I mean, I see it here, but I can't hear it.
	Well, I'm pretty sure they're speaking Arabic.
	I'm fluent.
	I understand.
	Got you.
	Who is Simon?
	What?
	Who is Simon?
	He's not.
	No.
	- - - So a lot of these images were specifically from the music festival that famously hundreds of just innocent party goers, actually partying in the name of peace, ironically enough, sadly enough, were killed, actually partying in the name of peace, ironically enough, sadly enough, were killed, were slaughtered at the
	So when you see images of this, you've seen countless videos like this, what say you?
	I mean, I don't know.
	What do you say to something like that?
	I think any decent person should just be horrified.
	It's appalling.
	So I'd say my first thought is that this is horrific and that anybody who did this ought to pay for it.
	And then I would say that my second thought after that kind of processing it is I just go, my God.
	Like, what the punishment, first what the punishment for anyone who perpetrated this should be, but then what the punishment for Benjamin Netanyahu to be the longest serving Prime Minister of Israel and embark in an explicit policy to prop up Hamas for strategic reasons.
	And if you haven't looked into this, by the way, this is not, this may sound like conspiracy theory for people who don't like follow this stuff and know, but this is in the front pages of Haaretz and the Times of Jerusalem.
	Just in the last couple of weeks.
	Why don't you clarify exactly what you mean by, listen, Bibi Netanyahu, the Prime Minister, I think he's on his fifth term right now, openly advocating for Hamas.
	He openly supported Hamas, and the reason he did is because even though when Benjamin Netanyahu- But where's your source on this?
	What's the source?
	Because we're here- Well, I gave you two, just there, but his direct quotes in front of the Likud party.
	This is, I mean, this is just a fact.
	Do you not know this?
	No, I'm just asking what the source is because we have a lot of people watching this.
	Well, I'll just give you two.
	Haaretz and the Times of Jerusalem from the last couple weeks, okay?
	So those are two sources on it, but I could also just send you his quotes in front of Likud party members.
	Now, when Benjamin, this is just a fact.
	If you don't know it, you don't know it, but go look it up and I promise you Twitter will inundate you with the source.
	The first sentence I said was giving you sources.
	So what he said, even though when he comes over to America, you know, when he's asking for billions in our taxpayer money, he says he supports a two-state solution somewhere in the future.
	But when he's talking to his own Likud party members, what he says is the reason we must support Hamas is because we're against the Palestinians ever having a state.
	First, there were two basic strategies.
	One was to divide the Palestinians in the West Bank versus the Palestinians in Gaza.
	And number two, which you can understand Adam, if you're the international community, Sure, I mean, if there's a secular nationalist group who asks for statehood, maybe you listen to them in Palestine.
	But Hamas?
	Are you ever going to recognize, you know, you're the United Nations, are you ever going to recognize Hamas as a legitimate government?
	Of course not!
	And so they supported them, and Benjamin Netanyahu's exact words were, "We can control the height of the flame." So he said, "We'll support this radical terrorist group "taking over, but we'll make sure it doesn't burn too high." And then the group he supported, he failed to protect his own people.
	I think he should face public trial, spend the rest of his days in Gaza.
	- When you say support, how did he actively support them? - He directed funds toward them, propped them up, withheld funds from the PLO when they were arrested.
	Look, you can't have it both ways, okay?
	He said it openly.
	But you can't have it both ways.
	You can't say, oh, like these poor Palestinians and the Israelis are cutting off aid and then also demonize him for giving aid.
	Hamas is the elected... No, but listen...
	The elected body in Gaza.
	Okay.
	I already showed you and I already, I can give you the citation for these polls and you can look them up yourself.
	These are Palestinian polls that show majority of the Palestinians support Hamas.
	To this day?
	Yes.
	They, and if they were to have their elections today, they would prefer Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of Hamas over Mohamed Abbas.
	And so the fact of the matter is, is that when you go to the Karim Shalom aid distribution center, and I have been there, okay, on the border of Gaza, Well, who controls the flow of aid once it's given by the Israelis?
	It's Hamas.
	Hamas controls the distribution of the aid.
	They control the fuel.
	They control the water.
	And so this claim, this is another ridiculous lie that the pro-Palestinian crowd likes to say.
	Oh, Israel cut the water off.
	Okay, there's two desalination units in Gaza.
	It's completely controlled.
	Both of them are controlled by Hamas.
	Do you know how much of the water supply that goes into Gaza is actually controlled by Israel?
	Do you know?
	7%, something like that.
	It's about 9%, okay?
	And so when we want to talk about resources and electricity and fuel... No, but let me finish.
	Fuel and water being cut off to the Palestinian people, I agree with you that the Palestinian people are an occupied people and they're occupied by Hamas.
	They're not occupied by Israel, they are occupied by Hamas.
	And so, if you're upset, if you're one of these people that's, you know, that's saying free Palestine and the streets of America or Europe or all around the world where we're seeing these, and I'll say they're not exactly organic protests, okay?
	Just two weeks ago, there was an investigative report that was released, I believe it was, by the Washington Examiner, if I'm not mistaken.
	And one of the largest shell companies and organizations that the Democrats use for the sake of, I'll say, laundering their funds and laundering money to progressive leftist organizations that falsely identify themselves as 501c3 organizations and actually are, you know, violating IRS tax structure and engaging in partisan political activities, OK, they were found to be supporting Palestinian terrorist initiatives.
	This was such a scandal.
	And then Arabella Advisors goes, And this is one of the funds, by the way, that George Soros heavily funds, says, oh, well, we didn't know about it.
	And so we're just going to we're going to discontinue our relationship with them.
	Bullcrap.
	You know, they got caught.
	OK, so these are not organic protests.
	You're not going to get that 10,000 people on London Bridge with matching T-shirts and signs and tell me that that's organic.
	Oh, by the way, I was at that protest, unintentionally.
	I just happened to be in London at the time and I walked through it.
	Awkward place to be a Jew.
	Anyway.
	Are you being serious?
	No, I'm being serious.
	I was just doing a stand-up tour and me and my buddy Rob were just walking through London.
	So what happened?
	What was it like?
	Oh, I mean, it was, you know, we just kind of walked through it and walked away.
	It was fine.
	This was how long ago?
	This was a couple weeks ago.
	I have to check my website.
	It may not have been the biggest protest, but we walked through a huge... It wasn't the one with the picture on London Bridge, but we walked over London Bridge, and then you got there... What was that like?
	Were they chanting?
	Was it the one where they were waving the Hamas and the Taliban flags?
	No, it was just... You know, I'll be honest, and this is being Jewish and out of the country, I didn't stick around to find out too much, but I just saw a bunch of Palestinian flags, and there were like a whole bunch, like 50,000 maybe of them or something, and then we were like, all right, let's go.
	I know you're being funny and prestigious, but why didn't you stick around and hang out with the Palestinian Hamas crowd?
	To be honest, I don't like protests.
	Even if I agree with the protests, I just don't like it.
	What's the real reason now?
	Huh?
	Did you agree with the protests?
	Well, I probably, I mean, my guess would be that I disagree with many people who are at that protest.
	I might agree on some things and disagree on others, but regardless, let me just say, look, I really, and I'm just kind of joking around, but that really did happen, but I kind of sympathize, Laura, with like, you're taking this position, and I understand you don't want to grapple with what I've said, and I've said it now three or four times, and there just won't get a response, but look, it's not that I'm saying There was a conspiracy where Netanyahu was propping up Hamas because he thought, I'm saying he said it.
	He's on the record saying it, as are all of the leaders in his party.
	And if you're going to sit here and condemn Hamas, how can you not just go, man, that was such a terrible strategy to prop up this group that then led over and killed all these people.
	And by the way, how the hell, a huge question that we should all be concerned about.
	I think that your definition of propping up and mine are a little bit different.
	He said it!
	I'm saying Netanyahu's definition of it.
	But when you're saying controlling the flame, because the region is controlled by different factions, not of Islam, but you have Palestinian Islamic Jihad, you have Hamas.
	Did he support Hamas?
	You have the PLO.
	Did Benjamin Netanyahu support?
	You have the PLO.
	Can you just answer that?
	When Israel is supplying the aid, they're going to have to engage you.
	No, no, no.
	Let me ask a more specific question.
	Was it an intentional strategy of the Israeli government to support Hamas?
	I will not say.
	I'm not going to say that.
	Well, Benjamin Netanyahu will say it was, and he openly did say it was.
	And if you can't even condemn that, then how are you going to condemn Hamas and Iran for supporting Hamas?
	I am providing clarification on this idea of what it means to prop it up.
	No, you're not.
	You're dodging it.
	I'm not dodging it.
	People need to understand, right, that these are not people trapped in some open-air prison, okay?
	These are people who elected an Islamic terrorist organization to represent them.
	There are active polling measures taking place this week by Palestinian media, by Palestinian—these are Muslim organizations that are conducting polls that show that over 58 percent of the Palestinian population would elect Ishmael Haniyeh, the leader of Hamas, even after watching all the havoc that Hamas has brought, right?
	And I'm not saying that there aren't innocent people.
	There are innocent people.
	But at what point in time do the Palestinian people, right, if they want to claim to be innocent civilians, at what point do they have a responsibility to restore or kind of get rid of this status quo?
	Because don't people in all societies have a responsibility to challenge or overthrow governments if their governments are not serving the people?
	That is such a great question.
	So let me just say this, okay?
	The United States of America, in the last 20 years, okay?
	Between the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, which I think we can all probably agree were, like, just ridiculous catastrophes that we never should have fought.
	Let's also add in there the war, uh, Obama's, which I'm sure you'll agree with me about, Obama overthrowing Gaddafi in Libya and leading to the migrant crisis into Europe was an absolute disaster.
	Let's also throw in there the attempt- And bringing in all these refugees.
	Let me just finish my point.
	Let's also add in there the attempted regime change war in Syria, which we started that led to 500,000 people dying.
	Let's also throw in there the war in Yemen, which we backed the Saudis fighting.
	Don't forget the Arab Spring.
	Something else like 500,000 somewhere in that ballpark also died.
	When you add up all of the numbers, you're talking about millions and millions of dead innocent people.
	What responsibility do you have?
	What responsibility do I have?
	What responsibility do you have?
	Are we fair targets now to be murdered because we haven't overthrown the status quo as you just said?
	Why is it that we as Americans get to hold these standards against other nations which we would never dream of imposing on ourselves?
	You know, the question is always asked, What's Israel supposed to do?
	Don't they have a right to defend themselves?
	Do all of these countries that we've slaughtered innocent people in, do they have a right to defend themselves?
	Do they have a right to come over here and kill innocent civilians?
	I would say no.
	They don't have a right to come kill innocent civilians.
	You have political grievances with the government class, but it does not follow as Osama bin Laden or Bill Clinton or Barack Obama or George W. Bush would argue that it then follows that we can inflict this collective punishment against people.
	If we're going to be the better ones, if we're going to say you're the Islamists, but we're the civilized people, if we're going to represent the best tradition of Western civilization, then the point would be that we don't believe in any of that.
	We don't believe that you can target innocent men, women, and children.
	That's what separates us from the savages.
	Israel is not targeting innocent women and children.
	We absolutely are.
	Intent matters, okay?
	And I'm one of the most sickening things of this debate, right?
	Because, and I hate even calling it a debate, because I don't think it's a debate.
	It shouldn't be a debate to say that Israel has a right to defend itself.
	The Jewish people have a right to exist and Jewish lives matter.
	But no one's arguing with that.
	No, but there are people who are arguing with this.
	Okay, well no one here is arguing with that.
	The Democrat Party doesn't seem to think that Jewish lives matter.
	The Democrat Party is going to support Israel.
	The thousands of people that are marching in the street.
	Joe Biden is going to write a blank check to Israel, and you know it, and I know it, and you know it.
	Possibly at the expense of the left wing of his party.
	Yes, yes.
	But why are you only talking about Israel?
	He just allocated $10 billion to Iran today.
	Two months ago it was $6 billion, and now it's $10 billion.
	Who knows, maybe go slaughter more Jews, right?
	Because let's be honest, I really do think that the Biden administration enjoys watching this.
	I do.
	I think that we're watching and we're witnessing the third administration, the third term of Barack Hussein Obama.
	And when you look at the fact that Joe Biden decided upon assuming the office and taking the transition of power, assuming the White House, do you know who he put in charge of being the Senior Director of Intelligence at the National Security Council?
	He put a Muslim, jihadist, anti-Jewish, anti-Israel, Palestinian individual by the name of Maher Batar, who also served in Barack Hussein Obama's National Security Council.
	And so, I was able to, I actually broke this story, and this was released on my ex-account, on my website, and people can, you know, follow my reporting on Loomer.com, but it was Maher Batar who gave the directive to, we share intelligence with Israel when it comes to combating Hamas and Hezbollah, because Hamas and Hezbollah, Okay, and these proxies, whoops, that are being funded by Iran, they're coming across our southern border.
	So this isn't just an issue that's unique to Israel.
	These people are making their way through Joe Biden's open borders, our porous borders.
	They're making their way through the Darien Gap.
	They're making their way through Venezuela, and they are coming in, and a security advisory that was just leaked and released, and I believe it, you know, I broke this story first, and my reporting was confirmed by Daily Caller weeks later.
	DHS had a memo.
	It came out of their San Diego office that said that they have active Hamas and Hezbollah terror cells here in the United States of America.
	So when are we going to, when are we going to call out the allocation of funds to these other countries as well?
	Joe Biden is not only sponsoring the attacks on Israel right now by funding jihadists, but also his own appointees within the National Security Council gave the directive to not monitor Hamas and Hezbollah.
	When are we going to hold the Biden administration accountable?
	He was literally I'm fine with- His envoy, Robert Molle, was literally running an Iranian spy, spying in Washington, D.C., and none of these people are in jail right now.
	I'm certainly fine with holding the Biden administration accountable, and I think we should end all foreign aid.
	I don't think there should be any reason to tax American citizens to force them to give money to any other country.
	That's not exactly the case with Iranian money.
	It's not coming from American taxes, but that aside.
	You know, if you're going to paint this picture that Barack Obama and Joe Biden, they basically just love watching Jews die and they hate Israel, you might ask yourself the question, then why is it that they're both funding Israel to the tune of tens of billions of dollars?
	Why is it that Barack Obama- It's not just black and white, though.
	Well, right, but you kind of made it sound like it is.
	But we have defense negotiations with Israel where they have to purchase weapons from us.
	I mean, it's not just like we're giving Israel tons of money for nothing.
	There's no agreement that Barack Obama had to use his veto power at the United Nations to veto everything that was condemning Israel.
	I think it's actually much more complicated than that.
	Now, if you're going to say we have to hold the Biden administration accountable, I am so with you on that.
	We should also hold Obama's administration accountable and Donald Trump's administration accountable.
	We should also hold Benjamin Netanyahu's administration accountable.
	And if we're going to say that there's like, you know, the administration is doing these bad things and funding these groups again, I'll just come back to, I don't know how, I just don't understand how you can possibly take this line and still not be offended that Benjamin Netanyahu openly was propping up Hamas.
	But regardless of that, what you said before, of course Israel has a right to exist.
	Israel has a right to defend themselves.
	Jewish people have a right to defend themselves.
	But Palestinians also have a right to exist.
	They also have a right to defend themselves.
	And if we're going to just ignore that entire half of the equation, then we're never going to be having an honest conversation.
	But you should tell that to Hamas because nobody in Israel said that Palestinian lives don't matter.
	Nobody in Israel said that Palestinians don't have a right to exist.
	I've been to Israel.
	I don't know if you've ever been to Israel.
	You're saying nobody there has said that they're animals?
	I'm talking about in terms of their structure.
	Try going to Gaza and see how long you survive.
	Try going to Gaza.
	Maybe you should schedule a stand-up comedy tour in Gaza and see what they do to you, Dave.
	Okay, yeah, I wouldn't want to go...
	What type of point is it that I wouldn't want to perform in an Israeli prison?
	It's not an Israeli prison.
	You have Palestinians that were given work visas to go work in the kibbutz.
	These people welcomed these Palestinians in.
	They were able to get clearance through the Israeli government.
	And you know what these people did?
	They were considered innocent civilians too.
	They mapped out the kibbutz and they turned over the maps to Hamas.
	Has Israel committed any crimes against the Palestinians?
	You have Palestinians that actively serve in the IDF.
	You have Muslims, you have Palestinians who have positions within the Knesset, which is the Israeli government.
	So this idea that, oh well, Palestinian or Muslim lives don't matter in Israel, and every Palestinian is such a victim.
	Do you know what Israel's doing right now?
	Israel is delivering incubators.
	You have IDF soldiers risking their lives, okay, going into Gaza where they know that people want them dead because they were born Jewish, okay, and they are delivering incubators for Palestinian babies inside a hospital because Hamas has a tunnel underneath the hospital.
	They are making the Palestinian people human.
	Sure.
	Let me ask you something.
	What you did say was actually true about, I think, 20% of the Yeah, and so you cannot say that these people are living in a prison.
	Oh, no question about that.
	Yes, there's a distinction.
	Yes, sure, absolutely.
	- Absolutely zero Jews allowed in Gaza.
	- Oh, no question about that. - So there is a distinguishment there where-- - Yes, there's a distinction.
	- Oh, I'm not talking, - There's a distinction. - And many love their life there, I think the majority do, whereas zero Jews are allowed to live in Gaza.
	- Yes, sure, absolutely.
	- So it's just not a fair comparison, do you?
	- Well look, I mean-- - It's not a fair comparison, is what you're saying, it's not a prison as well.
	- What comparison did I make that was unfair?
	- Well, what you said before, Have you been to Israel before?
	Many times, many times.
	I've been to Israel about six times and prior to COVID, I used to, there was a group called the United West and you know, I'm a Zionist and I'm a proud Zionist.
	I don't care who that offends either.
	I'm proud to be Jewish.
	I'm proud to support Israel and I'm proud to be a Zionist and I don't give a damn who that offends either.
	I know there's people out there that I don't want to use the word Zionist like it's some kind of dirty word, but I firmly stand against that.
	And I used to lead a group of people, they were both Jews and Christians, Christian Zionists, and we would take a border security trip every single year and we would teach American Zionists, a lot of evangelicals, Christians and Jews, and we would teach them about border security.
	And we would go to the Lebanon border, we went to the Gaza border, and we would show people the importance of walls.
	And this was even before President Trump was first elected.
	This was in 2015, 2016.
	And I continue doing this all throughout the Trump administration as well.
	And a lot of people don't know this, but a lot of the Israeli designer of the wall on the border between Israel and Gaza was actually contacted by the Trump administration.
	And his guidance was sought in terms of how to design the structure for the United States border wall.
	Have you been to any Middle Eastern countries other than Israel?
	Yeah, I've, well, I've been to the UAE and I have, let's see, where else have I been?
	I try not to go, honestly.
	I mean, I don't really like going to Muslim countries, I'll be honest with you.
	Have you been to Israel?
	I don't have a desire to go to Muslim countries.
	Have you been to the Middle East?
	No, I've never been to Israel, but I'm from New York City, so I grew up way Jewier than that.
	He's from New York.
	So, what do you say to the people that say, look, you've never even been there, man.
	I think we should go.
	I would love to go to Israel with you.
	I would love to take you to Israel.
	We might give it a few months.
	No, but seriously, everybody should go and see for themselves.
	Listen, look, it's just all of this, right?
	Like, let me first say, it's totally irrelevant, and you could say that if somebody in the year 2002, when the war drums were beating to go fight a war in Iraq, and if I were to sit here and say, we should not fight this war in Iraq, and then someone else goes, he's got weapons of mass destruction, he's in bed with Al Qaeda, and they go, and I've been to Iraq.
	So I know.
	Like, okay, but that's totally irrelevant to whether... But there's a difference between going to the country and actually seeing what's going on, like on the border.
	Sure!
	But lots of people can go to countries and not... Someone could come visit America and that doesn't mean they understand the totality of America.
	There is a difference between going to the U.S.
	and not going to the border.
	We had specialized access and I'm not going to say... I'm not saying you can't gain any knowledge from going there.
	But I had specialized access.
	But I'm saying it's irrelevant to whether you're right or wrong in the argument.
	Okay, let me just say, look, to your point, because I want to actually grant a point here, because I do think there's an asymmetry in this debate, where I'm not sitting here and saying, Palestinians have never done anything wrong to any Israelis, and I would never, like, even address the fact that this and this and this was a war crime or this.
	I certainly will.
	There have been lots of those, okay?
	And it is certainly true, and a lot of the kind of, like, pro-Israeli loudest voices like to make this point a lot, Ben Shapiro's and probably yourself, and this is a fair point that I think everybody should recognize.
	I'm not a fan of Ben Shapiro, I'll just say.
	He may be Jewish, but just because he's Jewish doesn't mean that I agree with everything that Ben Shapiro says.
	I know, but I just want to make it clear.
	I just want to make that clear.
	I'm just saying that other loud pro-Israeli voices will make this point, which you probably would agree with, so just listen to what I'm saying.
	That if you were, if all of us had to live as the average Arab citizen of a country And we had to pick which country we were going to live in.
	And you just, you know, you get the average citizen's life.
	We all want to be in Israel.
	That is the best.
	If you were an Arab citizen in Israel, that is way better than being the average citizen in Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Jordan or any of these.
	So I will totally grant that.
	There is a-- Not average.
	Not average.
	Because you're thinking of the elite.
	Do you hang out with Patrick B. Davis?
	You're not going over there and hanging out with the average people.
	You're just hanging out with the guys at the bar.
	So that's different.
	I'm not talking about the 1%.
	I'm saying the average person there.
	By far the way you live in Israel.
	And because I love liberty and I respect civilization, I recognize that.
	I think there's a fair reason to kind of support the people of Israel and the country.
	The point is that that's irrelevant to the conflict.
	Okay?
	In the same sense that if you were in a bar fight and someone and and if a cop showed up or and you were like telling him you saw a bar fight and you were like that this guy came at this guy with a bottle and he punched him back in the face and then you went oh well then I guess that guy was defending himself and this guy was the aggressor and then if the someone else came to the cop and they go yeah but the guy coming at him with a bottle he's really good to his wife.
	Like he always tells her she's beautiful, he doesn't cheat on her, he doesn't do anything.
	You'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's irrelevant to the conflict here.
	So just for an example, if you look, the average Muslim citizen in America has a much better life than the average Muslim citizen in Iraq under Saddam Hussein.
	But if you said who was the good guys and who were the bad guys in the war in Iraq, well the bad guys were the American military who were invading under false pretenses.
	Or really say the bad guys were the Bush administration.
	Dick Cheney and George W. Bush.
	The soldiers were maybe brainwashed into it.
	But you get the point I'm making here?
	That even though we are a superior civilization than Saddam Hussein's Iraq was, that doesn't mean that you're not guilty of any crimes when you go over there and slaughter a million people and displace 15 million more on a war sold on lies.
	And the fact is that you can ignore it all you want to, but if you're going to pretend that there are no crimes, No moral crimes and legal crimes that have been committed against the Muslims by the Jews from 1948 till today, you are not living in reality.
	The truth is it's inexcusable what Israel has done to these people.
	They won a war in 1948 and they won a war in 1967, so these people have to be subjugated for eternity?
	And you think that's not going to breed blowback and resentment?
	But so are you basically proposing that we turn New York back over to the British?
	No.
	Why would I be?
	How would that even follow?
	How would that even follow?
	No, because you're like, oh, well, these people want a war and so they have to be subjugated for eternity.
	That's what happens when you win wars, dude.
	You know, like you win a war and you control the narrative and you write history.
	So are you basically saying that You know, we need to turn over land back to the British, or we need to turn over land back to the Indians.
	I mean, do you see how ridiculous this sounds?
	But you live in New York.
	Should we give New York back to the British?
	I'm asking you a question, because that kind of is what you basically said.
	So actually, the Indians in the example makes more sense.
	No, it actually makes more sense with regards to the British.
	Wait, do you ask me a question?
	So let me answer.
	Okay.
	No, it actually makes more sense in terms of the Indians because they were the indigenous people living here and we kind of kicked them out.
	And the British were our colonizers who invaded us and we fought them off.
	So that's just a totally apples to oranges.
	But you're accusing the Israelis of being colonizers.
	Laura, let me just...
	But I'm just saying you accuse the Israelis of being... The example, if you just follow what I'm saying, the example to the natives would make more sense.
	But look, here's the thing, right?
	It seems pretty universally agreed upon in modern society that what we did to the Native Americans wasn't completely right.
	Now I'm not saying we're gonna give all our land back to them because of that, but at the same time I'm also not saying that Israel should leave all of Israel and give it all back to the Palestinians.
	The point is that there's still two million in Gaza and was it three million, something like that, in the West Bank? - West Bank.
	- Okay, so the point is that if you can recognize that something was wrong, I'll be the first to recognize what we did to the Native Americans was wrong.
	That was not okay.
	And so now, you're also adding the fact that this was not starting in the 1400s up through the 1700s.
	This was in 1948, when all of our grandpas were alive.
	That's not such a long time ago.
	There are people, not that many of them now, but there are people in Palestine who were the original people there.
	And so yes, of course, it's worth it to at least recognize that this happened, it was wrong, and there are going to be resentful feelings about that.
	But no, I wouldn't say we should give it back.
	It was wrong that Israel was surrounded by Islamic aggressors on every single border.
	They weren't surrounded.
	They settled there.
	They chose that they wanted to have a Zionist project and go.
	It is wrong.
	No, but I'm talking, you're talking about Anakba, I assume, right?
	And so the reality is, is that this idea that, oh, the Jews just drove all of these Palestinians away.
	No, there were many Palestinians who said, you know what?
	We don't want to be casualties of a war because of all these, you know, invading Islamic armies that are going to surround.
	And so there's a lot of people that fled on their own accord because they didn't want to die.
	Did they want to come back?
	They wanted to, well, you have to ask them.
	So let me just respond to a couple things you said here, because this is, I think, really important and gets to the crux of the matter.
	So number one, I'd say, OK, if you fled, some of them were forced out, some of them fled.
	We know all this from the historical record.
	Regardless, if some people start shooting outside my house and I take my family and run, I don't think that means that they own my house now.
	But who was shooting?
	Well, Israelis in many cases.
	In many cases, I'm not saying all, because I'm not being black and white here.
	Let me make my point.
	This is the bigger point.
	Here's the bigger point, because I think this is the height of the whole debate here.
	What you said before is you go, look, yeah, they won the war, and they get to write the history books, and they get to control the land.
	That's the way of the world, right?
	That was literally what you just said.
	That is the way of the world.
	Okay, fine.
	Fine.
	But then own that.
	If you're just saying might makes right, and that's okay, fine.
	But then, accept this.
	You don't get to look at these Islamists and say you're a bunch of barbarians, because all you're saying is might makes right.
	And you know what their response to that is?
	October 7th.
	That's the response.
	Oh, you say might makes right?
	I'm not saying might makes right.
	I'm using a comparison.
	It's exactly what you're saying.
	I'm using a comparison of a comment.
	I just asked if that's what you were saying and you said yes.
	But look at the way we think about ourselves here, right, in terms of the British colonizers.
	That's why I gave the example that I gave, because it's just ridiculous.
	Like, are we going to turn over New York back to the British or back to the Native Americans?
	It's the same exact concept.
	What do you want to do?
	Are you just going to surrender Israel to the Arabs?
	But I already said no to that.
	I said no.
	And me making that example isn't me just saying, oh, might makes right.
	The fact of the matter is, is this was planned.
	This was planned to be symbolic, okay?
	This was done on the 50 year anniversary of the Yom Kippur War.
	This was done on Shabbat.
	This was done during a Jewish holiday, okay?
	When the Jews were not using electronic devices so that people couldn't even call for emergency services, so that people couldn't even communicate with their loved ones.
	This was planned.
	This was done and it all relates Okay, I'm going to read something to you now, because I want you to understand how this isn't just, you know, oh, the Palestinians got so angry with these Jewish-Israeli occupiers, and so they finally snapped and decided to fight back.
	In Islam, there is something called the Treaty of Hubadiyah, okay?
	And I'll read this to you.
	The Treaty of Hubadiyah was an event, this is real, that took place during the lifetime of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.
	And in warfare, and whenever, you know, Muslims are dealing with Jews and the Islamic world, or anybody for that matter, when it comes to peacemaking treaties or discussions of peace, and especially in times of war, they have to refer to this Treaty of Hudaybiyyah, in which they have to go in increments of 10 years, right?
	And so Muslims are only allowed to attack when they're in a position of strength.
	And so if they're in a position of weakness, they have to retreat for 10 years, according to the Prophet Muhammad and the guidelines laid out in the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah.
	So this was planned.
	We know that this was planned.
	We know that there were Muslims both in Gaza, we know that the Iranians were funding Hamas and Hezbollah operatives, and that there was widespread coordination.
	They were following Islamic doctrine.
	To carry out this attack on Israel on October 7.
	And so, it's not as simple as just saying, oh, let's look at the history and let's look at the land disputes.
	We need to have a conversation and start educating people about the barbarism of Islam.
	They need to understand what the Treaty of Hudabiyah is.
	Our politicians need to understand this as it relates to foreign policy so that we don't spend billions of dollars, you know, trying to implement peace in the Middle East because there's never going to be peace.
	So what policy should we have?
	Do you think we've been too soft on the Muslims over the last 20 years?
	We've got to really understand that Islam is a threat and do what?
	Fight seven wars?
	No, I'm not in favor of going to war.
	But who reflects on the last 20 years of American foreign policy and goes, you know, the problem is we never recognized that Islam was a threat.
	We've just been leaving them alone this whole time.
	Maybe we should bomb seven of their fucking countries.
	But that's the problem, Dave.
	But that's the problem, right?
	You had George W. Bush in the aftermath of 9-11 who said that Islam is not our enemy, right?
	That was his problem?
	But he said one nice thing about Islam.
	Not that he launched two stupid catastrophe wars.
	But we wouldn't have needed to launch wars in the Middle East if our lawmakers understood that we were never going to be able to export democracy to the Middle East, okay?
	And so that really is the true anti-interventionist stance, is that when you have an actual understanding of Islamic doctrine and the fact that these people don't want peace, they don't want to coexist with other people, okay?
	They want you to either believe in Islam, they want you to be one of them, it's How many Palestinian babies can be killed?
	- All of them, let me ask you a question.
	- How much blood was spilled trying to export democracy to nations full of barbaric people that don't believe in human rights? - You don't believe in human rights. - I do believe in human rights. - How many Palestinian babies can be killed?
	Is there a limit to it?
	Is there a limit where you go, - We don't know. - You don't know.
	Don't tell me you believe in human rights.
	No, we don't know how many- Don't judge these people.
	We don't really know how many people have actually been killed, whether they're- Laura, nobody here is denying- But I want to make things clear.
	Let me say this, guys.
	Relax.
	Is there a limit, though, where you go, that's too much?
	Relax.
	Is there a limit?
	Is there a number of Palestinian babies- I'm not even sure a baby's dying.
	I'm going to ask a question because you guys aren't hosting the panel.
	Take it up with Hamas.
	They're tunnels are under the hospital.
	That's not what I'm saying, Laura.
	Oh, so it's all their fault.
	Nobody's denying- It is their fault.
	Hold on.
	It is.
	Nobody is denying here that it was an absolute disaster, what George W. Bush did in Iraq and in Afghanistan.
	Nobody's denying that.
	So you're saying that we can't go over there and try to export democracy and regime change and topple regimes?
	No, we can't.
	It's never going to work.
	But Israel lives in the, as you kind of pointed out, the best house in the shittiest neighborhood.
	So they're basically dealing with exactly what you called, would you call it the Treaty of Hudaibiyah?
	Hudaibiyah.
	Okay.
	So what did Israel need to do now?
	How does Israel deal with this now?
	Forget about America right now.
	We have our own issues domestically.
	But they're in that situation.
	Right.
	Forget about America.
	Where does Israel go from here?
	Well, I said from the very beginning, and this is, I think, why you invited me to this debate, right?
	Because I was very outspoken in my support for completely obliterating Hamas.
	I'm not saying kill all Palestinian people, but Hamas needs to be obliterated.
	Hamas needs to be obliterated.
	Look, it's unfortunate that people are dying, but at the end of the day, right, we need to have an honest conversation about what's going on.
	You're talking about the numbers.
	The Gaza Ministry of Health is controlled by Hamas.
	They have been caught inflating their numbers.
	They lied and they said that Israel bombed a hospital.
	Let's say the numbers aren't right.
	He doesn't want to kill babies.
	They're delivering incubators to the hospitals that are being, doctors are being held hostage.
	Muslim Palestinian doctors are being held hostage by Hamas that has created tunnels underneath this hospital.
	Okay.
	They are launching- Is this the Al-Shifa hospital?
	They did come out and say that basically Hamas's headquarters is under this Al Shifa Hospital and they're basically using babies and sick people as human shields.
	Because Netanyahu said, we're going to obliterate Hamas.
	And so they said, okay, you want to obliterate Hamas?
	Then we're just going to try to create another PR crisis.
	And then you're going to have all these leftist progressive organizations, as I said, funneling all this money so that people can be brainwashed into thinking that there's thousands of people around Yep, that's exactly what terrorism is.
	That's exactly what terrorism is, right?
	It's trying to provoke a reaction.
	But don't fall right into it.
	I'm gonna ask you the exact same question.
	Other than just bomb the shit out of Gaza, what else should Israel do?
	Well, Israel needs to have support.
	I'm not saying send additional aid.
	What I'm saying is that people need to understand that this is a war between good and evil, okay?
	And so if you want to liberate the Palestinian people, and you are, if you are one of those people that is foaming from the mouth, chanting free Palestine, okay, then you need to be in support of the eradication of Hamas, because the Palestinian people are never going to be truly liberated until they are liberated from their oppressors, and their oppressors are Hamas.
	Not the Jewish people delivering them incubators, not the Jewish people making sure that they have food and medical care, okay?
	Do you know that there are family members of Hamas terrorists who, you know, they themselves didn't carry out any acts of terrorism, and they were sick, some of them needed organ transplants, and they were actually given medical treatment.
	That's how humanitarian Israel is, okay?
	They are giving medical aid to family members of Hamas because they believe in the preservation of life.
	Well, okay, but they're also killing people in extremely high numbers.
	They are trying to protect themselves.
	They don't want to.
	They will hit targets where they know there are civilians there because they suspect one Hamas guy is there as well.
	But it's not one Hamas guy.
	He literally just said the Wall Street Journal confirmed that Hamas' headquarters is underneath a hospital.
	Yes, I'm not denying that.
	It's not just one.
	Let me ask the question and then you're going to answer.
	Here we go.
	He did make a point that it's, you know, Trump famously said, if you come at me, I'll come at you 10 times harder.
	He said that.
	You know that, right?
	And in his speech to the RJC last week, it was brilliant.
	I loved it.
	When I saw him, I said, I loved your speech, Mr. President.
	Cool, but this question isn't about Trump.
	One drop of blood will spill a gallon of yours.
	Okay, there it is.
	Got it.
	So basically, you know.
	And some innocent blood in there too.
	Israel's winning basically 10 to 1.
	So for the 1,200 lives that were Foolishly slaughtered at the hands of Hamas.
	According to Hamas's numbers, according to UN numbers, we shall see 10,000 Palestinians have died in Gaza.
	According to who?
	This is according to UN numbers, okay?
	But the UN, do you- They're getting their numbers from Hamas, no doubt, okay?
	Okay.
	But where do you draw the line?
	At what point do you stop killing innocent civilians?
	And what, 50% of the people that live in Gaza are under 18, meaning they're children, okay?
	At what point, how many lives have to be killed in order to get Hamas out of there?
	Is there any number in mind?
	I don't know.
	Maybe we should, you know, we should contact Elon Musk because Elon Musk has allowed for Ishmael Haniyeh, the leader of Hamas, to have an ex-account.
	And so I think that what we should do is we should try to... You too!
	We should get... Yeah, but I'm not a terrorist, right?
	Well... The DOJ thinks I am, right?
	Because I support President Trump, but... Well, I mean, you're supporting the killing of babies, so I don't know.
	Why don't we... Why don't we call... But she's not actually killing them.
	Why don't we... No, no.
	I'm answering your question.
	Why don't we call Elon Musk?
	And ask him to contact Ismail Haniyeh, who he is allowing to have a platform on X, okay?
	And we can Skype or Zoom Ismail Haniyeh in from Qatar, where he's being protected right now.
	And we can say, hey, how many more innocent people need to die?
	When are you going to move your headquarters from underneath this hospital where babies are in incubators?
	That's not a question for me.
	That's a question for Hamas.
	I'm not dodging the question.
	That's not.
	I don't trust those numbers.
	I want to finish this statement.
	Is the standard that people who kill innocent human beings shouldn't be allowed on Twitter?
	Is that the standard?
	Just give me the objective standard.
	That's not what I'm saying.
	Why should I have to answer the question about when enough is enough?
	When Hamas is obliterated, that is when enough will be enough.
	Okay, so let's say in order to obliterate Hamas, and let's even say it's all on them because they're hiding in the basement of buildings where innocent people are.
	But let's say in order to eliminate Hamas...
	I'm not denying that.
	What I was referring to was the refugee center where there was one suspected Hamas member and they killed like 17 people or something like that.
	But let's just say, hypothetically, Hamas is embedded itself.
	They're doing this human shield thing where they're underneath buildings with innocent civilians.
	And in order to kill Hamas, it means 50,000 innocent men, women, and children have to die.
	Do you support that?
	Look, I don't support innocent people being killed.
	Innocent people die in war.
	But if it's what's necessary to take out Hamas, is that what needs to happen?
	I'm not answering how many people need to die.
	I know you want to answer it.
	Because it's a hypothetical.
	Because it will reveal the point.
	No.
	No, it's not going to reveal the point.
	That's why you won't answer it.
	Because I'm not going to decide how many lives need to be lost.
	That is a question for Hamas.
	But the question is Israel is... That's a question for Hamas.
	It's not Israel.
	Okay, fine, fine.
	So let's just... Israel is not trying to kill these people.
	Let's take for the sake of argument...
	Let's take for the sake.
	You're asking me to decide how many people should be killed.
	Hamas is savages.
	Hamas is savages.
	It's all on them.
	Everything's their fault.
	But Israel is still conducting these operations.
	So if it takes 50,000 men and women and children who are not Hamas to die, is it worth it?
	Is that necessary to take them out?
	And watch, you just won't answer the question.
	It's not that I'm not answering the question.
	You're literally not answering the question.
	Israel has been very strategic, and they have been very deliberate in trying to identify Hamas targets to reduce civilian casualties.
	And now, because of this, Hamas has decided to put their headquarters underneath high civilian populated areas.
	And so, I'm going to double down on what I said.
	If people have a problem with civilian deaths, and they have a problem with innocent children dying, and innocent women, and innocent men dying, and we all should be appalled at the idea of innocent children dying.
	It's terrible.
	The images, whether they be Jewish babies, Muslim babies, okay, all babies' lives matter.
	I think that we can agree here.
	I'm very pro-life.
	I will say that.
	The reality is that you're not seeing mass condemnation from people when it comes to Hamas putting their headquarters underneath these densely populated areas.
	And I want to understand why.
	I think there's tons of people condemning Hamas.
	But let me just add this too.
	We also need to really be critical of the information that we're seeing coming out of the media as it relates to the numbers, how many babies or how many civilians are dying.
	I don't know if you saw this, but Senator Tom Cotton, he actually just called for the DOJ to carry out an investigation because it was revealed that CNN AP, Reuters, and the New York Times had their journalists embedded with Hamas on the back of their motorcycles with their GoPros as they were attacking and killing innocent Jews and Israelis.
	And so how can we really trust the information that's coming out of the media when, you know, it's now coming out that the media has their own Hamas terrorists confirming what we all know, that the media is the real terrorist organization that is wreaking havoc, not only in our country and so in discord here in America, but all around not only in our country and so in discord here in America, Additionally, you said the numbers come from the UN.
	You need to know this as well.
	They found United Nations and UNICEF medical kits on the back of the motorcycles and on the backs, like the backpacks, right?
	And with inside the backpacks of these Hamas jihadist killers who were going into these kibbutzes and murdering people.
	And so I take offense, not only as a journalist, but also as a Jew and somebody who's pro-Israel, that you're citing UN numbers.
	I mean, these people are literally giving medical supplies to Islamic terrorists.
	We cannot trust numbers coming out of the Gaza Ministry of Health when the Gaza Ministry of Health is literally controlled and operated by Hamas.
	Would you at least agree that whether it's a 10 to 1 or a 12 to 1 or a 5 to 1, they are winning this?
	Emphatically.
	Israel?
	Yes.
	I mean, as far as the body count goes.
	Well, you're not going to go up against the IDF and expect to win, and so I think that Hamas is getting what they deserve.
	But Dave, how does Israel, what are they supposed to do?
	Meaning, alright, so Amnesty International, you want to agree with them or not?
	I mean, I'm not here to fact, you know.
	Back check every single little stat, but during the 2009 investigation they found that Hamas stored munitions in hospitals and schools, basically their base out of there.
	The Wall Street Journal came out and said basically the center of the war is in fact this Al Shifa Hospital.
	So how should Israel deal with the fact that they're shooting missiles, bombs out of hospitals and schools?
	At innocent civilians.
	How should Israel react to that?
	Okay, so there's several things to that, but I'm just going to start by just pointing out that it's like, I don't know Laura, there's been several times in this debate where you just won't respond to what I'm saying, and you just kind of won't answer it, so I'm not going to do that.
	What should the response be, say, to October 7th?
	Um, I would say that primarily, first of all, there were active hostages involved immediately.
	So I would say the first thing, much like what you do when, look, if a hostage, if there's a bank robber and he has a machine gun and he takes 12 hostages up with him, the response is not blow up the building, the response is you first negotiate, try to get every innocent person saved, and then you go and try to enact justice against that person while trying to not kill as few innocent people as possible in the process.
	Makes sense.
	But the immediate Israeli response should have been this.
	Look, it should have been fortify your borders.
	Have a true investigation to find out how the hell it is possible that the most prepared fortress of a country allowed the most surveilled area in the world, which is Gaza, to commit What the most obvious attack would have been, like this was not 9-11.
	This was not like, I know they could say George W. Bush got that one piece of intelligence that said planes into buildings, but planes into buildings was still a pretty wild thing to actually have happen.
	People crossing over the border from Gaza to kill Israelis is what you always had your eye on.
	So how in the hell did this possibly happen?
	Okay, one second.
	How in the hell did this possibly happen?
	How was the response time so long?
	What exactly happened here?
	Let's look into some of the more gruesome details about what really went on, what some of the first-hand accounts are, and then you should absolutely hold Benjamin Netanyahu and the Likud party accountable for this strategy of propping up Hamas and funding them that blew up in their faces.
	This is just what the Times of Israel piece the day after, I believe it was either on the 8th or the 9th.
	It was like either one or two days afterwards said, well, Benjamin Netanyahu's strategy blew up in his face.
	I agree!
	And then, and then... Get back to the fact that they're based in hospitals and schools.
	What do you do with that?
	Well, look, in the same sense... But they're still shooting missiles and bombs from hospitals.
	Let's pretend for a second that you value innocent Palestinian life as much as you value, let's say, innocent American life.
	Okay?
	Just pretend for a second that we have the same standard.
	If there was a SWAT team, let's say a murderer, serial killer, He's on the run from the cops, and he's held up in a school.
	And they're like, okay, he's in this elementary school.
	And then the local police, or your state troopers, or even the FBI said, alright, well here's our plan, we're gonna blow up the school.
	How'd you feel about that?
	Would you say, oh, that's law enforcement, they're doing a great job?
	No, you would say that is unacceptable, and in fact, if they did that, you would not sit here and pretend that they cared about human rights, or they really were trying to not kill kids, but there was one bad guy in there, right?
	But see how that's totally acceptable when it's in Palestine?
	Now, all I'm saying is this.
	Look, even if you want to come at it from the most pro-Israeli point of view, where you have no value on Palestinian life.
	Let's say you don't care.
	Whatever.
	We gotta kill Hamas, and we're gonna kill all those kids if you have to.
	I never do that.
	I'm not saying that.
	Listen to what I'm actually saying.
	Let's say that's your attitude.
	Still, go in with your eyes open and understand what that's going to be perceived as from the other side.
	Because if anybody ever had that attitude with my kids, I know what my attitude toward them would be.
	And you can say, oh, this is just Islam is a crazy religion and we're going to blame them for everyone.
	I don't know.
	I'd feel the exact same way if anyone had that attitude with my kids.
	I'd be ready to join up with whoever the craziest group was who wanted to go get those people back.
	And likewise, you see the same thing after October 7th.
	What is everybody like you who supports Israel saying?
	Well, I'm ready to join up to go kill as many of them as we gotta kill to get rid of this problem.
	There's actually, maybe there's a lot more similarities than differences between these two sides.
	I'd like to counter this because even prior to the attacks on October 7th, okay, you see that there is essentially the equivalent of what would be considered Sesame Street, right?
	TV programming here for children in America.
	They have in Gaza for children Palestinian children, in which they have these little cartoon characters that dress up like birds and they teach them, oh, what do you do?
	What do we do?
	We kill the Yahud, right?
	We kill the Jew.
	And then there's videos, there's hours of videos that show kindergarten simulations where kindergarten graduation ceremonies show four-year-olds and five-year-olds carrying guns, okay, and whether they're fake guns or not, okay, they are simulating hostage scenarios where they go in and one of them pretends to be they are simulating hostage scenarios where they go in and one of They are teaching and indoctrinating these children.
	And by the way, okay, they are, the Gaza Ministry of Health is actually counting Counting children as combatants.
	Okay, and that's something that needs to be discussed.
	So you want to pull this whole what about the children thing?
	What about the children the innocent children these poor children that are being blown up and being killed?
	Yes, let's talk about how this is a violation of the Geneva Convention.
	Okay, these are we want to actual war crimes.
	Yeah, making a child an enemy combatants.
	Okay, making a child You know Absolutely.
	wear a vest and, and, and, and pick up a gun.
	This is what they're doing.
	And the IDF has actually, let me just finish this stuff really quick.
	No, but I'll just say there, there's video evidence and I'm happy to show you.
	And obviously we're only doing 90 minutes here tonight, but I really implore people.
	There's a great site.
	It's called memory.
	It's M E M R I.
	And they have hours of this stuff cataloged and there's hours.
	I'm sure you've seen some of these videos of Palestinian mothers and women saying we have so many children.
	We have eight children.
	And the reason why we have children is because our children are meant to die, to become martyrs for the sake of killing the Jews.
	It's horrible.
	That's what they say.
	It's horrible.
	Is that to blame for Israel?
	They want their kids to go die.
	Well, some of them do, and it's horrible.
	There's also rhetoric on the other side, and I think we've all probably seen this, on both sides, since October 7th, where you have one side talking about flattening Gaza, they're all savages, kill all of them if we have to, drive all of them out of their land if we have to.
	You have another side who's like celebrating at times, like what happened on October 7th.
	All of that is horrific, but let's not pretend that it's only happening on one side.
	And that there's not also something to be said for what was being done to these people to begin with.
	And might it be?
	Look, just try to imagine, right?
	And this is the great point that all of the true America First conservatives, in their best tradition of the sense, always made.
	Like, you know, Pat Buchanan, who he's like a... Brand for president in 1996?
	He's kind of like Donald Trump if he read books and knew stuff.
	So, Pat Buchanan, he's always said that, look, he goes, terrorism is the price of empire.
	And if you want to have an empire, if you don't want to pay that price, you have to get rid of the empire.
	He also talked about how Gaza was essentially a concentration camp of the Israelis.
	He predicted, what was it, like 15 years ago?
	Have you seen this clip that was going super viral?
	I think because the time of the age of the kids almost lined up.
	But he was talking about how there were like, you know, what always happens in Gaza.
	Israel killed, you know, several innocent people on some targeted strike or something like that.
	And he was arguing about it on MSNBC.
	There's a different world when MSNBC would let Pat Buchanan be on.
	And he's arguing about it, and he goes, look, what do you think her brother and her cousin and her nephew, who are they going to grow up to be?
	Who are they going to grow up to be?
	And it was almost like the exact amount of time.
	He said, like, where are they going to be in 15 years?
	It was something like 15 years before this event happened.
	But look, we've got to be, this is what Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan and all of the best of the paleoconservatives and paleolibertarians always recognized.
	All the true America first people recognized.
	was that you cannot do whatever you want abroad and think that you're not going to create hatred against yourself.
	As Papi Buchanan said about Osama bin Laden, when George W. Bush said he hates us because we're free, it's not as if-- this was Papi Buchanan's love, which I always loved.
	He goes, it's not as if Osama bin Laden stumbled in the desert somewhere upon the Bill of Rights and was just like, oh my god, what?
	They have a right to a speedy trial?
	Let me finish my point.
	They have a right to a speedy trial?
	I hate their freedom!
	What were his complaints?
	His complaints were that we prop up Israel and they abuse the Palestinians, that we have bases in Saudi Arabia, that we had the sustained bombing campaign against the Iraqis, and that we prop up brutal dictators in Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
	Those were their complaints.
	After 9-11, Colin Powell, the wisest member of George W. Bush's administration, who's still Deserves all of the evil things in the world to happen to him because he still went and lied us into the war in Iraq at the UN even though he knew it was all BS.
	His response to 9-11 in 2003 was to push for a two-state solution with the Palestinians and the Israelis.
	Because he knew, this is the cause of so much of the terrorism that we deal with.
	You simply have to give these people their natural rights.
	You don't, you can't sit here and say, you can have a state, when Israel has decided you've met X, Y, and Z, which by the way, you're never gonna meet, and then by the way, when they're talking to their own people, they talk about how they're trying to undermine that anyway.
	You have to do this.
	And you know what happened?
	Is George W. Bush bailed on it because he was basically convinced by House members that you would alienate your evangelical Christian voting base and it would be a one-term election.
	9-11 was in 2001, okay?
	The Hamas Covenant was 1988, so we can't exactly use 9-11 as a cop-out for why, you know, the Palestinians have these children.
	I didn't say that.
	No, but I'm just saying that a lot of people will say, oh, well, look at the war on terror.
	Look, I've been critical of it as well, but this is 1988 that we're talking about, okay?
	And so I don't really necessarily think that it's fair to say That, sure, if you watch your mother and your father get blown up, you're probably going to have a spirit of revenge and you're going to have deep-seated hatred and want to kill.
	Anybody would want to kill somebody that killed their family member, right?
	I think that that's just human nature.
	Whether it's, you know, a drunk driver, whether it's an act of terrorism, whether it's a murderer, whether it's, you know, whatever it may be.
	It's vengeance, okay?
	So do you think that plays a part in the Palestinians' hatred for Israelis?
	I think that it may play a part when, you know, people are losing... That's something.
	We're making progress here.
	You can at least admit that maybe that's part of it.
	But I also think that it's a serious problem when from the moment a baby is born to a Palestinian, they are being taught Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it.
	Just as it obliterated others before.
	I don't think there's ever going to be peace, and I don't ever think there's going to be peace between these people.
	Acknowledge the agreement, Laura.
	Just literally, let me just give you a second.
	So you acknowledge that what Israel has done to the Palestinians might be at least somewhat of a contributing factor to them hating them.
	9-11 happened to us, right?
	I think a lot of Palestinians have done to Israelis as well, because there are innocent Israelis who have been killed.
	Sure, I know, I know, I know.
	I know it's tough for you to admit, but we came to a moment of agreement there.
	Listen, 9-11... There are innocent Jews who are being killed too.
	Yes, no one's denying that.
	This is like, okay, fine.
	9-11 happened to us.
	What was the American attitude after 9-11?
	We gave George W. Bush a blank check.
	Do whatever you want to do.
	Drop bombs on whoever the hell you want to drop bombs on.
	Because we are pissed off because we got hit and someone else has to suffer for this.
	Was it really the people who did it?
	Is it just innocent people who are dying?
	And now we're suffering.
	We're the terrorists.
	We are the terrorists in our own country.
	Has had a thousand 9-11s.
	And if you sit here and go, look, just imagine, try to imagine, be really genuine here, okay?
	Because we're gonna say we're so much better than the Islamic world, and you know what?
	I generally do think we are.
	But, even us, who's so much better than them, imagine, not one 9-11, but a thousand 9-11s happened here.
	What would that look like?
	And then, let's say, after a thousand 9-11s happened here, let's say, whoever, Iran did it.
	And then Iran invades and they overthrow our government.
	And they prop up their own government.
	And now they rule us.
	What do you think the, like, the toughest right-wing militia members in America would be doing?
	They'd be throwing Molotov cocktails through their government building, they'd be running up suicide bombing themselves, and I bet they'd yell something about Jesus before they did it too.
	Because they'd probably start clinging to their religion.
	So, I'm just saying that, like, if we're unwilling, in this debate, in this divide, Try, make a real effort to put ourselves in their shoes and go, what would we do in that situation?
	If you imagine, listen, this is 1948 is not that long ago, okay?
	It's our grandpa's.
	We're talking about 1400 years here.
	We're not talking about 1948.
	We're talking about 1400 years of the savagery of terrorism.
	No, you are, but I'm talking about something else.
	So anyways, what I'm saying is 1948 was not that long ago, okay?
	The people... My grandfather fought in World War II.
	He remembers this very vividly.
	Those people were kicked out of their homes.
	I'll say this from the Jewish perspective.
	And there's a big difference.
	Now, you may not have this as much as I do, but in general I would say, for Jews this is true, that our parents' generation are way more connected to a serious form of anti-Semitism than the current Jewish generation is today.
	Like there's something like, my mother was the daughter of a Holocaust survivor.
	It's a little bit different than being the grandson of a Holocaust survivor.
	My grandfather was arrested by Nazis when he was a medical school student.
	And the Jewish students were expelled from medical school.
	And his medical diploma has a swastika on it.
	Yes.
	So just making the point that, you're right.
	This is my family's history too and most Jewish people's family's history, okay?
	And they were like, if you read the writing of the early Zionists, okay, which is like the late 1800s, it's all a reaction against the pogroms, which are, I mean, you ever read about like pogroms in Eastern Europe?
	I mean, it's just like the most horrific thing.
	Which are basically the Jewish ghettos of today.
	They're happening all over again right now.
	Well, okay, anyway.
	It's actually more disturbing than reading about the Holocaust.
	Even though the Holocaust was on, like, such a larger number, it's something about it, like, it's more systematized, and so it almost, like, removes you from the... But you read about the pogroms, the pogroms were just basically, like, your neighbors all decided they were gonna come in and rip your children apart and rape your wife in front of you and make you watch and then beat you to death.
	And this happened over and over and over again.
	This was going on where, exactly?
	In Eastern Europe, most of the old Russian Empire, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, all these areas.
	And it's happening now, too.
	It's not happening now like it was happening then.
	No, it actually is, though.
	Not like it was happening then.
	Let's not trivialize that.
	No, not the Chechnyans.
	They literally stormed the airport, okay?
	Who did they catch?
	They thought an Israeli flight was coming in.
	is you had all these Muslim men, there were tons of videos of this.
	I'm surprised you didn't see it.
	And you had like thousands, okay?
	Thousands of Muslim men had stormed the airport.
	They took over airport security.
	They thought an Israeli flight was coming in.
	They were wrong.
	It wasn't.
	And they were going to kill every single person on that plane.
	They said, we're going to kill them.
	OK, but anyway, Laura, you're just interrupting.
	But that's a part of it.
	That is a part of it.
	Well, no, it's not because it didn't end up happening.
	But anyway, it's not.
	It's quite possible.
	But anyway, this all ties in, actually, to my point.
	But anyway, so the response, Zionism was a response to that.
	And what's really interesting is if you read the early Zionists, They didn't talk that much about the Arabs.
	And they, first off, none of them had ever been to Palestine.
	They didn't really know.
	But they actually talked, when they did mention the Arabs, they talked about them in kind of friendly terms.
	Because they liked the Ottoman Empire.
	The Ottoman Empire was kind of cool.
	They let Jews work.
	They let them practice their religion as they wanted to.
	They were certainly much better than the Russian Empire was to them.
	And so it was almost like an afterthought.
	But it was like, look, we're reacting to that, and so we're going here.
	And whatever has to happen to the people who are happening, whatever.
	We need our own state, because we can't live like this anymore.
	Which is a reasonable conclusion, at least needing your own state, from that.
	And then of course after the Holocaust, it was like, game over.
	We're doing whatever we have to do to do this.
	I'm just making the point that, look, People react to this level of violence.
	And if you want to understand what's going on in the world, if you want to understand what motivated Osama bin Laden to hit us on 9-11, if you want to understand what motivates Hamas to hit Israel, you've got to look at this or you're never going to get it.
	And this is the final point I'll make, because when you talk about these pogroms that are happening all over the world, look.
	The point of 9-11, Osama bin Laden's goal, which he explicitly wrote about, was what?
	It wasn't just to kill some Americans in the Twin Towers.
	It wasn't just that he thought if we took down the towers that would destroy the United States of America.
	His express goal was to get us to invade Afghanistan.
	He was trying to recreate what we trained him to do in 1979 to the Soviet Union.
	To lure us into Afghanistan to bankrupt us.
	And look at this.
	And then George W. Bush said, I'll do you one better, Osama.
	I'll invade Iraq also.
	And look at us, we're 20 years later, and I'm not saying our country hasn't exactly collapsed, but I bet all three of us and everyone in this room and everyone watching here would agree.
	Man, our country sure is in trouble.
	Well, you're also kind of forgetting the part where he wrote about Islamic global domination as well.
	Yes, he was an Islamist!
	Anyway, you conveniently leave that part out.
	No, I'm not leaving anything out.
	I'm just focusing on something else that really matters.
	Obviously, he was an Islamist.
	Like, what is that?
	Yes, of course.
	Osama bin Laden was a radical Islamist, you know, fundamentalist.
	The point is that there was a strategy here, okay?
	And with this Hamas attack, there's also a strategy.
	And you know what the strategy of this was?
	This wasn't just a bunch of barbarians.
	This was, I mean, there were barbarians, but this was a very sophisticated attack from land, air, and sea, right?
	All coordinated against the fortress of the world and they pulled it off.
	What was the point of this attack?
	They want us to go to war with Iran.
	To get Israel to do exactly what they're doing right now and turn the whole world opinion against them, which is exactly what's going on.
	You're seeing marches in the hundreds of thousands across America, North America, Europe, the entire Muslim world.
	Listen, even from the most pro-Israel point of view, I hope everyone here recognizes that Israel's existence is under more threat right now than it has ever been in my lifetime.
	I'm 40.
	There is a real threat right now that other Arab countries are going to get involved.
	This is something that hasn't happened since the 60s and 70s.
	There's a real chance of it right now because 100% of their populations are against this.
	And as much as, by the way, I might disagree a lot with what's being said at some of these anti-Israel protests as well.
	I'm sure all of us don't like some of the rhetoric.
	But it would behoove Israelis, and it would behoove people who are pro-Israel, to consider the possibility that maybe your rhetoric is actually somewhat right.
	I mean, I see all of these people who support Israel, and they constantly say to me, they go, Israel is this tiny little dot in a sea of Muslims.
	And these people would tear us all limb from limb if they had the shot at that.
	And also, by the way, Europe and America, there is a tremendous amount of anti-Semitism that is right under the surface.
	And if you just scratch it, it's all gonna pop up.
	And what they're all saying is over the last few weeks, we're seeing it.
	See?
	Proof.
	Okay, so let's just take for granted.
	I don't necessarily agree with all that.
	But let's just say that's all true.
	Then to quote Walter White, Maybe Israeli's best course of action is to tread lightly here and consider the fact that the world is sending you a message saying, you may be okay with killing tens of thousands of Palestinian babies, they are not going to take this.
	The world is not sending a message, okay?
	I talked about this and I highlighted this, okay?
	And then by the way, we're going to go right to the Twitter questions, X questions.
	The world is not responding to this, okay?
	Obviously, granted, okay, when you have majority Muslim nations and these are Muslims, they believe in the word of the Quran, okay?
	They are Jew-haters, okay?
	If they want to call themselves devout Muslims, to be a devout Muslim is to be a Jew-hater, okay?
	Some people may not want to hear that, but that's the truth.
	If you consider yourself to be a devout Muslim, you are a Jew-hater.
	Because the Quran, there are actually more calls for the killing of Jews in the Quran than Hitler's Mein Kampf.
	Did you know that?
	No, I've never read either of those books.
	I'll lend you my copy.
	There's actually, there's, there's, there's more calls for the kill, for the killing of Jews and the Quran than Hitler's Mein Kampf.
	And it's important, right?
	Because would you allow for a member of Congress to take their oath of office on, on Hitler's Mein Kampf?
	Obviously not.
	So why is it acceptable for a member of Congress to take their oath of office on the Quran?
	Because it's totally different.
	No, I don't think it is, right?
	And this is why you have now Rashida Tlaib being censured, of course.
	And just today, actually, before coming onto this debate, it was uncovered that she's been a member of a pro-Hamas group where they glorify Hamas martyrs, okay, for the last six years, which, you know, is obviously including the time that she's been serving in Congress.
	We should not surrender.
	Are you saying that a Muslim should not be able to serve in the U.S.
	Congress?
	I'm saying that it should be illegal to take your oath of office on the Quran.
	I think that it should be illegal.
	But if a Muslim took their oath on the Bible, that would be okay?
	They should take their oath on the Constitution.
	But so why would that be?
	But they'd still be a Muslim.
	This is the dumbest, most superficial thing.
	It's not, it's not.
	So if they just don't take the oath, then they won't hate Jews anymore or something?
	No, but I'm trying to make the point that we shouldn't have any jihadists in Congress because their views and what they believe in is completely incompatible with Western civilization.
	But that's all Muslims, right?
	That's what you just said.
	So why would you run away from Adam's point?
	Should Muslims be allowed to serve?
	No, you just don't want to say it.
	I'm not going to say that we should ban all Muslims from serving in Congress.
	But you just said all Muslims hate Jews.
	If you are a devout Muslim.
	Okay, so should all devout Muslims be banned from serving in Congress?
	Well, if I could have my way, I would probably say yes.
	I'm not even going to dodge the question.
	I would just say yes.
	Because I don't want anti-Semites having access to classified information and I don't want anti-Semites serving in positions of power.
	So that's the standard?
	You can't hate Jews and be in Congress?
	You can't be a Hamas supporter.
	You can't openly support Islamitarism.
	Well, you just said anti-Semites.
	No, I didn't say anti-Semites.
	I don't have a problem necessarily with the viewpoints, right?
	I have thick skin.
	I can get over some of the things that Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar have said about Jewish people, but what I don't like is their open association with groups like ISIS and the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas, which have all been documented and proven, okay?
	It is true.
	Barack Obama funded ISIS.
	We want to talk about anti-semitism, this is why.
	You have January 6th political protesters right now who are rotting away in jail cells because they went inside the Capitol, but it's okay for Rashida to leave because she wants to cry Islamophobia and wants to pretend that she's a victim because she's a Palestinian, she's a Muslim, and we can have a full-blown Hamas erection.
	This is unacceptable.
	So when you talk about scratching the surface, No, politicians on both sides of the aisle, Republican and Democrat, have given it a pass.
	You didn't need to scratch the surface.
	These people were always Jew haters from the beginning.
	I exposed it six years ago and paid the price of being debanked.
	I was demonetized.
	I was shut down on every single social media platform.
	I was banned from food delivery apps.
	We're trying to blow the whistle and prevent something like this from happening six years ago.
	That sucks that you got kicked off social media sites, but that has nothing to do with the point I was making.
	It does have a point because you want to scratch the surface.
	Watch the surface of it.
	These are issues that have existed.
	They're ideological issues.
	The squad sucks.
	They're a bunch of idiots.
	The squad sucks.
	They're a bunch of idiots.
	They're also pretty irrelevant.
	They're like the four members of the Democratic Party.
	They're not irrelevant.
	They're literally driving policy and shaping Joe Biden's administration.
	No, they're not.
	Oh my God, it's such nonsense.
	Dick Cheney is who drives policy.
	Not Rashida Tlaib.
	She's got a popular TikTok channel.
	But I'm talking about the actual policy that gets through.
	The policy has been funding Israel.
	Who's the country, with the exception of Ukraine, just for the last year and a half, who's the country we've given the most foreign aid to?
	It's Israel, by far.
	Who's next after that?
	Oh, the countries that we pay off to be friends with Israel.
	Speaking of Ukraine, the Hamas terrorists were showing... And you can't respond to that either, I'm sure.
	Speaking of Ukraine, I'm opposed to all money going to Ukraine.
	I don't know if you saw these videos as well.
	But that's not the point of what I was saying.
	You're completely dodging the point here.
	You're trying to paint this picture that the U.S.
	federal government is run by these people who hate Israel When meanwhile, Israel is the country who's received more foreign aid than any other country.
	Our country right now is currently run by a bunch of Jew haters.
	I will say that.
	And they still give Israel more foreign aid than everyone.
	What a weird coincidence.
	Israel, you said, and I agree with you, in that I've never seen such a threat to the existence of Israel in my life.
	I'm 30 years old.
	You're 40 or 10 years older than me, of course.
	But it's alarming.
	But it's not just alarming.
	I live in America.
	I'm concerned about America first.
	But there's 15 million Jews left on this planet, okay?
	And there's 2 billion Muslims.
	And with the amount of Jew hatred that's taking place and the fact that we can't even get every single member of Congress to agree to censure a member of Congress who supports Hamas, which I just read their charter says they want to kill Jews and they want Israel to completely be obliterated.
	What does that mean for the global population of Jewry?
	You're talking about Rashida Tlaib who was censured by 100% of Republicans, but only 20% of Democrats.
	But you're making light of this.
	It's serious.
	I'm not making light of anything.
	We want to give a shout out to our friends watching on X.
	Guys, say hi.
	They're watching you.
	Go ahead.
	Say hi.
	I'm aware.
	Hello, everybody.
	Good to see you.
	Okay.
	We have questions.
	See?
	We're all interactive here.
	I'm just saying we're very close to another Holocaust.
	Then we'll get to the questions.
	Nobody wants to see that.
	And I think he's basically saying tread lightly and you're saying double down.
	What starts with the Jews doesn't end with the Jews.
	And I advise everybody to pay attention because they may think it's fun and games now, but they'll come for the Jews.
	They'll eradicate the 15 million Jews left on this planet.
	And then who are they going to come for next?
	None of this is happening.
	Let's get real.
	It is happening.
	It is happening.
	The idea that... Listen, Gaza's the only ones at real threat of being eradicated right now.
	And the only threat to the state of Israel is if they continue down this path.
	If you get Lebanon, Syria, Iran involved...
	Yes, that's right.
	That's what you're looking to avoid, is what you're saying.
	Yeah.
	We should all be.
	But here's the question.
	Here's from The Human Reaction on X. He says, question, this is probably for you.
	For those fiscal conservatives concerned about growing debt and reckless spending, but also supporting U.S.
	financial support of Israel, how do you reconcile the effect of additional military spending on U.S.
	national debt and taxpayer interest?
	Well, I've already said that I'm completely against the continued resolution that Speaker Mike Johnson just put forth.
	I've been very critical of the GOP breaking their promises when it comes to not just eliminating aid to Ukraine, but also adding additional aid to Israel.
	I think that there's ways that we can combat this terror threat and stand with Israel and also combat anti-Semitism without sending billions more dollars to Israel, Ukraine, or, you know, any other issue.
	Do you support the foreign aid to Israel?
	I think that we shouldn't be cutting all of the aid to Israel because we have a joint relationship with Israel and it's a misconception that they just get that aid for absolutely nothing, right?
	There's military agreements.
	We have shared intelligence operations, for example.
	And I will say, you know, speaking on that point, I do agree with what you said earlier.
	I didn't get a chance to say it.
	I 100% agree with you that there needs to be an investigation into how the biggest, you know, surveillance state, and they openly, you know, Israel brags about how sophisticated their surveillance state is.
	There needs to be an investigation into this intelligence failure, because it also impacts our national security, because we know that these operatives are coming across the U.S.
	border, and we share intelligence.
	Well, with Biden's open border policy, they're coming through.
	Many people from Muslim countries.
	And so I would much rather prefer, right, that we put those billions of dollars and militarize our own southern border so that we can keep these same Hamas and Hezbollah and IRGC operatives who are trying to attack Israel out of our country.
	Can I just answer the question?
	Well, let me just answer the question very directly.
	I mean, yeah, it's like, it's completely insane.
	Cut all foreign aid.
	We are 30 plus trillion dollars in debt.
	The idea that we are taxing Ron Paul always said, right, foreign aid is taxing poor people in rich countries to send to rich people in poor countries.
	And the fact that we're still doing this while our country is collapsing and we're falling apart is insane.
	But that's not even the worst part of it.
	Foreign aid really isn't a huge driver of the national debt, to be honest.
	The worst part of it is that we inherit this tremendous moral hazard in these parts of the world where, look, So Ukraine, which maybe we would agree on this, Ukraine, if America hadn't written them a blank check, would have been forced to negotiate with Russia on day one.
	And in fact, they were going to negotiate.
	They were almost at a ceasefire when we sent Boris Johnson over to make sure he didn't.
	And it's only because we go, we'll fund you until the end of time, that he'll keep fighting.
	And the truth is that Israel, talk about how radical Islam is, Israel has made peace with Egypt, they've made peace with Jordan, they've made peace with Saudi Arabia, they've made peace with... Not yet!
	No, no, no.
	When I say they've made peace, I mean they haven't been at war with them.
	I'm not saying they signed on to one of these dumb Trump-Abraham Accord deals, which is BS anyway.
	We can get into that if you want.
	But I'm just saying they're not at war.
	They haven't gone to war with any of these countries.
	There's one little sliver of Muslims who they haven't made peace with, and that might have something to do with the fact that they've been occupying And yet none of those Muslim countries want the Palestinians.
	Why is that?
	Why is it that two weeks ago, Egypt said that they were going to shoot, they were going to militarize their border and shoot every Palestinian that tried to come across their border?
	Well, I mean, there's a lot of reasons for that.
	Palestinians are so innocent.
	Why is it that every 65 Muslim majority countries don't want them?
	What's interesting about that is that it's kind of funny to be like, isn't it like, it's not an excuse to just be like, if you were like, hey, you're being brutal to these people and they're not at peace with you.
	And you go, well, other people are being brutal to them.
	But I'll tell you, part of the reason, and there's many, part of the reason is that, you know, they're bribed by the U.S.
	government.
	But aside from that, is because they know that if they were to take all of these Muslims in, that that represents Israel getting 100% of what they never had a right to get anyway.
	And that the truth is that a lot of these people, as probably all of us would, they feel like they have a right of return to this land that was historically theirs.
	So what are you going to do when Biden, and this is happening by the way, they are in talks right now to have refugee resettlement of Palestinians here in the United States of America.
	What are you going to do?
	What's your position on refugee resettlement in the United States?
	I oppose it.
	Okay, that's good.
	Because you know the Biden administration is planning on, there's talks about resettling Palestinians here in the U.S.
	That's going to go great, isn't it?
	That's bad, but just because something else bad is happening doesn't mean anything.
	Next question for Dave.
	Alright, here it is from Liam McCollum.
	I don't know, is that a buddy of yours?
	I know Liam!
	Yes, yes.
	He says, questions for Dave.
	The United States is already so intertwined in this conflict and has been since the beginning.
	What do you propose the US does?
	Do you worry that even if we stopped funding Israel tomorrow, the Muslim world would still blame us for the funding them yesterday?
	Um, well, I mean, look, there is no undoing the past, and so I think there is a legitimate point to be made that it's just like, hey, look, say, like, for example, we never should have fought the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq and all of this, but we did, okay?
	So if we had a time machine, it'd be better to go back and not do that, but we don't, so what can we do now?
	But I would just say this, that there is actually a tremendous opportunity sometimes when these crises come up, and this really pisses off a lot of A lot of right-wingers, although the wisest of right-wingers, always got this.
	But, say for example, after 9-11, there was this incredible opportunity for America to unite the world.
	Russia, famously, Vladimir Putin, was like, what can I do to help you guys?
	We got calls all over.
	Muammar Gaddafi was like, waving the white flag, like, what do you guys want?
	Now, part of this was fear, also, no question about that.
	Fear of Islamic terrorism?
	No, fear of our response, I think, at that point.
	But even in Iran, there are stories, you can go read this, at their biggest, like, soccer stadium, I think it was like 60,000 people, and they had this huge moment of silence for what happened to people on 9-11.
	The Iranian government came out and condemned it right away.
	Now, there's a little bit of, like, a Sunni-Shiite beef there, too.
	I'm not saying any of this is, like, Well, no, but look, I know you want to just make this caricature of all of Islam, but that might happen.
	This also happened.
	This also happened.
	And in this moment, just try to imagine if instead of going on mass killing sprees and just slaughtering innocent Muslims by the millions over the next 20 years, imagine we had just done the special ops missions in Afghanistan.
	We had trapped Osama Bin Laden in Tora Bora when we could have in late 2001 and we decided to let him go so George Bush could fight his war in Iraq.
	Imagine we had done that and then called the whole thing off.
	And then we had said, alright look, we took a real hit here.
	But, like, we get what the grievances of the other side were.
	And that doesn't mean we're not going to try to kill the people who killed us.
	Once you do that, you cross the line.
	We're trying to kill you.
	But we're not just going to start slaughtering innocent people over this.
	All I'm saying, and I'm going to come off like a hippie here, but I actually think I'm in good standing with, like, conservative right-wing tradition, where what America is supposed to be is a city on a hill, not engaged in entangling alliances.
	Not the empire of the world.
	Actually, maybe that's the most conservative thing you could say as an American.
	But we had an opportunity to do something.
	And so what I think Israel could have done here, and would do if America pressured them to, because all it takes is America saying, we're not going to back you on this unless you make an actual move for peace.
	Is they could have had an opportunity to say we're going to rise above this.
	We're going to demonstrate that we have respect for Palestinian life.
	We do not have any respect for the people who are responsible for this attack.
	We're going to do everything we can to kill them.
	But we're moving toward an actual peaceful solution here.
	We're giving you a real proposal of a two-state solution, not like the BS Oslo Accords.
	We're actually offering you what you want.
	Okay, you guys want to be your own government?
	You can be your own government.
	We will stop controlling the electricity and the utilities and your airspace and your water space and your ports of entry.
	We're not going to control that anymore.
	We're going to let you be your own government, but now you are responsible for what your government does going forward.
	Now, I'm not saying this would be perfect.
	I'm not saying that what's happened over the last hundred years didn't happen.
	But at some point we've got to stop perpetuating this cycle.
	And what Israel's doing right now, look, look what Hamas did.
	Trump did try to do that on his way out with the Palestinian prosperity plan that he had.
	Okay, well he had four years and he didn't do any of it.
	So all I'm saying is that, look, what Hamas did, what did it result in?
	More Israeli violence toward them.
	And what is this violence going to result in?
	We all know what it will.
	More violence on the other side.
	At some point you have to try to break that cycle.
	Well played.
	Guys, we're coming to the end of our spirited debate.
	Shake hands, guys.
	I like Dave.
	You know, Dave and I was on his show in 2019.
	Can we just do that real quick?
	That was a good episode.
	I want to go to Israel with you.
	I really do.
	I think both of you guys have very valid points.
	I learned a lot from you.
	I learned a lot from you.
	It's great to see that in America, We can have debates and be disagreeable but also be friends at the end.
	Shouldn't there be more of this too?
	Isn't it insane you have these like kind of dueling protests on on college universities and it's like hey how about you like just sit down and like I thought you're a university yeah sit down and argue this have the debate.
	Maybe Ben Shapiro could debate someone who's not 19.
	Debate Scott Horton, Ben Shapiro.
	Accept the challenge.
	I'll give you guys the opportunity to kind of give your closing statements here.
	State your case.
	Laura, you went first.
	So I'm going to let Dave go first this time.
	We don't need any issues with that.
	So Dave, you have your camera here.
	Give a closing statement.
	You've got about 60 seconds or so.
	I won't count exactly.
	But give really what you think that people should understand on both sides to basically try to get to some sort of element of peace at the end of the day.
	Sure.
	Well, thank you to you, Adam.
	Thank you, Lauren.
	Thank you to Zero Hedge, which has been just an incredible publication.
	I'm really honored to be on the first of this debate series.
	I think that's awesome.
	They've been, you know, look, I'm an anti-government extremist or whatever.
	I shouldn't say that publicly, but that's more or less what I am.
	Libertarian!
	Libertarian!
	I believe in liberty, and I hate the enemies of liberty.
	So, you know, this publication has been, like, Kind of an oasis in a desert for a lot of people like us for many, many years.
	So I really appreciate them having us.
	Look, I'll just kind of reiterate what I think are the most important points that are made in this debate.
	And I will say respectfully, I do not feel like I ever got a response to the main ones.
	Which is that you can't get away from this.
	If you're going to look at the Islamic world and say, we judge you by these standards, and what are the standards if we were going to judge them?
	Well, the standards are what makes us better than them, which I will say I kind of do agree.
	We are, generally.
	But what makes us better is that we're children of the Enlightenment, that we are the best of Western civilization, that we respect Individual liberty and property rights and peace over violence, right?
	But if we're going to say that, then how can we also say that while defending the most horrific violent actions towards these people?
	If we're going to blast radical Islam, how can we not at the same time criticize our own governments who have intentionally It stated explicitly that this was the strategy to fund the most radical Islamist groups in the world over and over and over again.
	Now maybe, and I'm quite open to this possibility, that even if we hadn't have done all of that, even if our governments, if Israel had never supported Hamas, and if we had never supported Wahhabism and Al Qaeda and ISIS and all of these other groups, perhaps still, Western civilization would be better.
	I'd even guess probably it would be, more advanced still.
	But knowing that we did that, how can we sit here and condemn their people without at least condemning our own government, who we have at least some degree of impact over, not that much, but at least some degree of influence, and not condemn them for supporting these very terrorist organizations, and at every single turn, you know why we supported them?
	Because they were always the enemy of the secular nationalists.
	In the Islamic world.
	And we didn't want them to have their own power.
	And so we supported the Islamic radicalists because we knew that they would undermine them.
	And in many cases undermine the commies also was part of the goal.
	But anyway, I don't know how you can look at the situation in Israel.
	Take the complete pro-Israel position, the complete anti-Hamas position, and not say Benjamin Netanyahu's stated, explicitly stated strategy of supporting Hamas blew up in his face.
	And man, can we not learn a lesson from that and never do it again.
	Well said.
	Laura, camera, your closing statements.
	Where can we go from here?
	What should people understand about your position?
	Yeah, well, I want to thank Zero Hedge, of course.
	It's an honor to be a part of the inaugural debate series.
	It's been a pleasure, right?
	Three yids, I say, hashing it out on this conflict.
	But no, it's really great to be a part of the debate series for such a prestigious and impactful publication like Zero Hedge, which I read, and they're doing such a service to the world, especially in an age of censorship and propaganda.
	I think that Zero Hedge is one of the leading publications when it comes to bringing people Alternative media, independent media, and also news that is checking both the fourth estate, right, of our corrupt media establishment and also our corrupt governments.
	And that goes for both political parties.
	But what I will say is that there is a growing, disturbing trend of normalization and sympathizing behavior for Islamic jihadists, not just here in the United States of America, but also abroad, as we have seen.
	And we need to call it out.
	We need to be honest about the fact that this is an ideological war that has nothing to do with land disputes.
	This has nothing to even do with how the United States government plans on responding to these attacks by these Hamas terrorists on these innocent civilians.
	This is a reign of terror that has been ongoing.
	It's an ideological reign of terror that has been carried out by Islam for 1400 years.
	This has nothing to do with 9-11.
	This has nothing to do with with really I guess you could say like any modern-day conflict.
	The United States government is not is not I guess I would say the United States government as I as I said earlier is not the reason why these countries are reacting the way they are and why these Islamists are carrying out attacks against innocent Jews and innocent Americans.
	We need to, if we're going to truly understand how our response needs to be to eradicating global Islamic terrorism worldwide, we need to start encouraging our politicians and people in the media to have an honest and open conversation about Islam.
	Because you cannot understand a threat, you cannot combat a threat unless you know the threat.
	And so I just am here today to speak out for the many innocent Jewish people, Israeli people, and innocent people, I guess you could say, all across the board who have been a casualty in the name of Islam.
	I will say that I'm here to stand against all of the anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist propaganda that seeks to blame Israel and label them as an oppressor and to blame Israel as an apartheid state.
	And I'm here to really just make a plea to the world, right?
	To preserve the livelihood, to preserve the life of the Jewish people.
	There are only 15 million Jews left on this planet.
	Who, in my opinion, are facing an existential threat of eradication and a possible second Holocaust if we do not get this Jew hatred and normalization for Islamic terrorism under control.
	And I know that I've been deemed an Islamophobe for saying things like that.
	I know people think that I hate Muslims.
	I do not hate Muslim people, but I am explicitly and
	Wholeheartedly anti-Islam because I am a human rights activist and I oppose the barbarism and the subjugation of people simply because they will not submit convert you know to to the ideology of Islam and I want to also express my condolences to Just you know all the all the people around the world right now who are suffering in silence all of the Jewish students on universities that are scared to go to
	To go to their classes on a daily basis because they're being threatened with being shot on their college campuses People that are being beaten up in the streets of America simply because they're Jewish We do have a Jew hatred problem in this country it has been normalized by the Democrat Party and as President Donald Trump has said the Democrat Party is the party of Israel haters and Jew haters and We we need to call it out.
	We need to call it out, and I'm not going to stop calling it out All right.
	Laura Loomer, Dave Smith, thank you guys for being here.
	I think we're all equally honored to be on the inaugural Zero Hedge First Debate ever.
	And thank you, Zero Hedge, for having us.
	But most importantly, thank you guys out there for tuning in.
	We will see you guys on the next one.
	Proud.
	Bye-bye.
	It's finally here.
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