Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

March 3, 2025 - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters

01:35:37

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1112

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Hello and welcome to the podcast of the Lotus Eaters for the 3rd of March 2025. For some reason I've got on the notes dock, it's 2024, so apparently I don't even know the year.
	I am Josh, and I am joined by the Stelios.
	Hello everyone.
	He's got his glasses on today, he's the Stelios.
	If he takes them off, he's just Stelios.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And today we're talking about Trump and Zelensky's meeting.
	Also features J.D. Vance, of course.
	I'm going to be talking about the trend of Roman salutes, and then we're going to be talking about a theatre in Paris getting taken over by some very highly qualified academics.
	They're the most scholarly of gentlemen, and there's a beautiful irony to it.
	This is one of those stories, they don't come up very often, but they're just sort of the perfect analogy.
	Exactly, yeah.
	And there's a really deep analogy, as you said, with cultural issues because they are recreating a traditional of excellence and cultural excelsior.
	That's right.
	They're bringing in all of their microscopes and engineering equipment, aren't they?
	Exactly.
	And some of them have doctors in engineering.
	Have I heard correctly?
	Very well qualified people.
	Right.
	Take us away, Stelios.
	Right.
	So I suppose we're going to talk about the meeting that happened last Friday between Trump and Zelensky at the Oval Office and how it went south and what happened afterwards.
	But before we say more about this, we have Islander number three.
	It's out.
	Proud.
	It's proud.
	Islander three out of the closet.
	Out of the box.
	It's a very beautiful aesthetic magazine.
	It's got some lovely...
	Here's the contents page.
	Lots of good authors here.
	Lots of people you'll like.
	I'm looking forward to giving it a read.
	I haven't got my own copy yet.
	But Rory's really done a great job with the sort of almost medieval-esque art style in this one.
	And it's only £15.
	£14.99 actually.
	It's not even £15.
	It's £14.99.
	It's a bargain.
	That's cheaper than many bespoke magazines elsewhere.
	Exactly.
	And we have also a St. George mug.
	We have a Father Robinson t-shirt.
	We're going to be talking about him today in the podcast.
	Check them out.
	Right.
	So I think I want the war to end.
	I want the war in Ukraine to end.
	Do I? Yes.
	Obviously, the question is, what are the terms according to which it's going to end?
	But I think that...
	What is interesting now is that right now we're on the show period.
	I think that right now a lot of things are going to get much, much worse before they get better.
	And I've said also in previous segments I have been on when it comes to Ukraine, I think right now there may also be an escalation in violence at some point.
	Because normally the way things go in war, as far as I understand, obviously I've never fought in one, but just from my knowledge of them...
	Things tend to escalate right until the day in which a ceasefire or peace agreement is signed because you want to get the best terms for, you know, the peace agreement, right?
	Exactly, yeah.
	And so it seems like it's going to follow that trend.
	Exactly, because, I mean, it's difficult when you want to stop the war and end the war, you're going to do something that's called, I think, an antebellum balance.
	You can't go back to where it was in the beginning.
	You have to strike a new balance of power and find exactly where to draw the borders.
	So one of the things that, for instance, the Ukrainians would want right now is to escalate their effort in order to have more carrots on the table in exchange for That seems to be a pretty standard, well, you know, it's not even a partisan view that that's the sort of natural course of things.
	Everyone's sort of saying that that's going to happen.
	Exactly.
	Right.
	And I think we should definitely say that a lot of the speech acts involved in the rhetoric of politicians, wherever they are from, is, I think, more an expression of resolution than something to be taken literally.
	As either true or false.
	That's very true.
	I think that there's been a lot of posturing and I imagine that a lot of what people are saying publicly just around the world about the conflict is more about image than it is about substance necessarily.
	Yes.
	It could be in some cases but as a general rule people are trying to get themselves in the correct...
	Exactly.
	But I think also this extends to politicians.
	Mainly politicians, yeah.
	Because they are trying to increase their power for the next negotiation table, let's say.
	So I think a lot of people understand this when it comes to Trump, that he isn't always veridical.
	A lot of the times he's just recognizing the field.
	But they don't recognize it to other leaders, whether they agree with him or not.
	I think the Europeans, for instance, are doing just that at the moment.
	They're also expressing resolution, not necessarily something that is true or false.
	Right, so we have some context before the meeting.
	We have here Trump in the 18th of February saying at the end that you shouldn't have started the war implying Ukraine.
	And then we had another case of doublespeak coming from Trump.
	On the one hand, he said Zelensky is a dictator.
	And on the other hand, in front of Keir Starmer, he said, did I say this?
	I can't believe I said that.
	But you see, I'm not saying this in order to say, well, here's an obvious contradiction, because it is.
	But I'm trying to say that this is a case of language where...
	It's used in order to express resolution.
	On the one hand, he wants to pressure Zelensky in order to say, listen, my eye is on you, and you need to make concessions.
	On the other, maybe he heard something, maybe he talked something with Keir Starmer.
	I would be very surprised if Keir Starmer had an insight that changed Trump's mind.
	Keir Starmer, who doesn't dream, doesn't have a favourite book or film.
	Has a novel insight that opened his eyes to this new perspective.
	You never know, Josh.
	It's possible.
	What I will say is that optics matter, and I think that this is going to be the main aspect of our segment, and I really think Hugh Starmer could have sat, could have used a better posture to sit with this.
	He came across as very weak, didn't he, when he met Trump.
	Right.
	I know that's not what we're talking about, but still.
	He was trying to fawn all over him as well.
	You could see that Trump was the man who held all the cards there.
	Yes, I mean, we have to put the criticism of Starmer in the segment somehow.
	It's obligatory at this point, isn't it?
	Right, okay.
	And also, one of the main contextual factors here was the U.S.-Ukraine minerals deal.
	Because Zelensky knew that he was going to talk about the minerals deal.
	With Trump, and Trump also knew that he was going to talk about it.
	Are you going to talk a little bit more about this?
	Because there is something I would like to point out about this.
	I've been thinking about this, and obviously Trump's doing this from the perspective of...
	A lot of Republicans are rightfully annoyed that a lot of money has gone for the defence of a foreign country when it could be going to America.
	I entirely understand that.
	I would feel the same.
	And I do, in fact, because Britain has done the same thing.
	And so Trump going and getting something in return, which is this minerals deal, helps sort of placate some of the concerns, even though it would be better that all of the taxpayers got their money back.
	This is serving that purpose for them.
	But for the Ukrainians, what people have perhaps overlooked more so is that what they get in return is that US contractors, US citizens are going to be in Ukraine doing the mineral extraction, right?
	I would imagine.
	If they're going to be 50% US owned, as has been discussed, there's going to be a considerable number of US citizens in Ukraine, which means if Russia then invades again, There's a surprise attack.
	Then there's going to be a lot of additional US casualties, and that's a massive disincentive for the Russians, who don't want to provoke an even more boots-on-the-ground response from the United States, because it wouldn't end well for them.
	Exactly.
	I think it's actually something that is really sensible.
	Also, it would be sensible for Zelensky.
	They're also not in a position, really, after having their country on war footing and being bombed to smithereens to pay back all of their loans because, of course, offering access to the resources directly allows them to mitigate the inability to get all of this capital at such short notice.
	I'm a bit more cynical.
	Than that.
	And I think that it was always going to come to this.
	Probably, yeah.
	I disagree.
	Even if the Democrats were, at the moment, even if they had the administration and the presidency, it would come down to that.
	So, in one sense or another.
	Now, I'm not talking about the specific deal and the specific clauses, but there would be exchanges.
	I mean, when it came to Afghanistan, weren't there some companies?
	Some of them, I think, had ties to Donald Rumsfeld that were involved into building infrastructure of Afghanistan again.
	It sounds about right.
	Yeah, so it was always going to come to this.
	And I think people who think otherwise would be completely unrealistic.
	But I don't know about the specifics of the details.
	But one thing that is really good that you mentioned is that Economic entanglement and economic presence and the presence of extended US interests in Ukraine, whether they say it or not in the deal, would function as a sort of security guarantee.
	That's exactly it, isn't it?
	And it's sort of a softer way of, you know, rather than the US having troops stationed in Ukraine, of the United States saying, hey, Ukraine's not our...
	And I think that it's not so much Trump as much as some of the lobbies behind him.
	And I've said so also in another segment we did when we were discussing about Greenland and Canada.
	And not many people liked it.
	But there are the tech bros who want access to rare minerals for tech industry products.
	Yeah.
	For them being more competitive on a global scale.
	We're going to see some more U.S. intervention.
	Intervention.
	I can't speak today.
	So maybe they're going to get involved in the Congo, because there's lots of rare earth minerals there as well.
	And there's a conflict going on at the minute, so you never know.
	Called it here first.
	Right.
	So according to the BBC, the terms of the deal were as follows.
	The preliminary agreement envisages that an investment fund will be set up for Ukraine's reconstruction.
	And they said that according to the deal, Ukraine will contribute 50% of future proceeds from state-owned mineral resources, oil and gas to the fund.
	And the fund will then invest to promote the safety, security and prosperity of Ukraine.
	I think, whether directly or indirectly, that was what it was going to come down to.
	So I think at the end of the day, what they're discussing is the percentage.
	Most probably, Zelensky doesn't want to give 50 once less.
	He'd rather zero, wouldn't he?
	He would rather zero, but also...
	Well, actually, having the US presence there is useful.
	So zero, maybe not, but a smaller percentage.
	Yes, but also I think...
	At the end of the day, it wouldn't just be the percentage for him.
	That matters.
	But he would, as he has been explicit about, he would also want to have further stuff in, like, for instance, entrance into NATO. As he has said, and I'll show you, he said that I will resign if we go to...
	I will step down if we enter NATO. So it's understandable.
	He goes maximalist.
	He asks for as much as possible as he can.
	That's known as the art of the deal.
	Yes.
	Right.
	So here we have some things about the meeting.
	First of all, I don't think it should be televised.
	That's me.
	I don't think diplomacy should be televised in such a way.
	I know what you think about it.
	It doesn't make for productive conversation, does it, really?
	If you've got a number of people stood around with microphones, boom mics, cameras.
	It sort of makes it all for show, doesn't it?
	Which a lot of the discourse around this has already been.
	Yes, and I think optically it didn't help because what happened was, for instance, it emboldened Zelensky with the Europeans.
	And also, I don't think optically this is a good image to portray within the Western camp.
	Yeah, I think that both sides can go away from this conversation feeling like it could have gone better.
	I think that's fair to say.
	Zelensky wants to look as if he's buddy-buddy with the US because if it looks like the US has got Ukraine's back then he's got a better position in Ukraine against the Russians and of course you don't want to see this rift between the US and the continent of Europe because a lot of the Europeans have just unequivocally backed Zelensky whereas Trump has been a lot more Critical, which I understand from his position.
	Yes, but I will say this, and this is an unpopular take or something, but I think that the more eagerness is shown to end the war, the more the war is going to be prolonged.
	I'm a big believer into the peace through strength narrative, and whether it's in more Reaganite form, if you want to put it, yes, that's my view.
	If you go to your enemy...
	After talking for a long time how much you want peace and how the war's not going well for you, you're not exactly going to the table of the best deck of cards to the best hand.
	But also the point is, I think that it's not a good idea to show excessive eagerness to end the conflict and be way more eager than the people who are fighting in it.
	I think you should be...
	They should come to ask you to stop it.
	You shouldn't project that, no, I want to end this because I can't sustain it.
	It could be the case that it's unsustainable, but as I said in the beginning, rhetoric is expression of resolution, and it has nothing to do with truth and falsity in geopolitics.
	That's why I'm saying that the more it's televised and the more it shows a rift within, This camp of allies, and for the time being they are allies, the more it shows excessive eagerness.
	No, I do agree.
	That doesn't help.
	The best way to keep peace is to be strong.
	Weakness brings about war, doesn't it?
	That's one of the sort of truisms of all of humanity.
	And by showing a form of weakness, what they're doing is potentially...
	I think there's probably blame on both Zelensky and Trump and Vance's behalf.
	Maybe not proportionate, but there's an imbalance there.
	But I think that both sides could have behaved more tactfully that had things gone slightly differently, it probably would have been a much better resolution for both sides.
	To be honest, I think this was going to happen.
	And probably it will happen again, and it will happen many times, and it may have happened many times.
	It's just that right now, because it's televised, it adds pressure into the mix.
	That's true.
	Right, so, yeah, what I wanted to show here is that I don't think that why don't you wear a suit is a serious question.
	Honestly, sorry, I don't think it's a serious question, because...
	This is a choice by wartime leaders to convey a sense of situation being a situation of emergency.
	And the same happens here with Winston Churchill in 1942 or 43. It's just...
	It happens.
	He's doing it to convey a message and I think that they knew...
	Why he's not wearing a suit.
	It's a choice of image and it's not like it's a surprise.
	If he turned up in a tracksuit after wearing a suit the entire time, maybe it'd be fair to say, hang on a minute, are you turning up scruffy?
	If you invite Zelensky in, it's fair to assume that he's going to turn up like that, I suppose.
	Right, and here we have, for anyone who wants to see, I think you may have watched it a thousand times by now, we have the video of the shouting match between Zelensky and Trump.
	And I want to say that if we look at the whole clip, I think the first 40 minutes were relatively okay-ish.
	Yeah, we're fine, yeah.
	Yes, and I think that at some point there was some tension, which was understandable, and there was tension also in the first 40 minutes, but I think that at the end of the day...
	Most probably what's going on is that Trump and Vance decided that they should play good cop and bad cop.
	And because they are adding pressure to Zelensky, maybe because they want him to stop asking for NATO entry, or maybe because they want to take more into the minerals deal.
	I don't think Ukraine joining NATO would necessarily be a good idea.
	Well, most probably that's what's happened.
	So now they're playing tug-of-war.
	And yeah, that's basically it.
	That's what happened.
	And my guess is that they're going to continue doing this.
	Right, so here we have the contrast in body language, as they said, with Vance and Rubio.
	Why does Marco Rubio look like that?
	I don't know.
	I think that was in the beginning when it was the question about the suit.
	You see here, Marco Rubio is particularly happy.
	Generally speaking, Marco Rubio wasn't happy because he's also the foreign relations minister, so most of the work...
	It's going to fall on his shoulder.
	That's true.
	He's literally saying, guys, all of you are adding work.
	He's watching his own workload go up in real time, and that's why he's grumpy.
	Okay, fair enough.
	To be fair here to Zelensky, when, again, that's going to be a bit unpopular, I didn't see him as much disrespectful here, to be honest.
	It's something that I would definitely expect from someone who is a wartime president.
	And also MAGA is supposed to be in favor of direct, hard, no-nonsense talking.
	So I didn't consider him to be particularly disrespectful.
	I think I can understand why people would go away from looking at it and think that he was being disrespectful.
	But I think also there's an element of he's talking in a second language.
	And you can hear in how he articulates himself that he's not as fluent as you would like.
	And I'm not necessarily putting it down to that, but there's sort of a language barrier.
	He's also turned up not in a suit like everyone else.
	He's sort of the odd one out.
	There are lots of things that sort of add up to give this perception of is he disrespecting everyone around him because he's standing out so much, isn't he?
	Relative to everyone in the room.
	And also the fact that it's something that Zelensky brings up that sort of ignites the tension, if you will.
	Well, yeah, I mean, it's polarization, yes.
	But also I think it's not an issue of the suit.
	I think that was more like a, you know, just...
	It's just a jab, wasn't it?
	It was nothing too deep to it.
	That was a jab.
	I think that what was the issue that they started...
	It was his exchange with Vance.
	And Vance was saying essentially stuff that Zelensky told him.
	This is Russian propaganda.
	I think that was the main thing.
	And then Vance started...
	Telling him that you're disrespectful and whether you've said things...
	It is a little bit insulting to say you're just spewing Russian propaganda when he's the one in the Oval Office.
	I can see why Vance got his back up, but Vance also has to behave a bit more tactfully, specifically when you can pull out soundbites and the left-wing media is going to parade it around saying, look at what they're doing, they're jeopardising the deal.
	And I don't think that that's actually happened, but you've got to be a little bit more savvy than that.
	Yeah, I mean, I think fundamentally the worst choice was to televise it because I think most probably it's going to happen 10 times more if it hasn't happened yet.
	If it hasn't happened 10 times.
	It's negotiations.
	You are negotiating between people who are fighting.
	Spirits are going to be high.
	And the point is that if you're going to televise it, also televise a meeting with Putin.
	I didn't see that happening.
	Right, so here we have this clip from the White House.
	Have you said thank you once that they made from Vance?
	I think this is the one thing where I was just like, okay, that was...
	I can understand why people were a bit upset at Vance for this one, because actually, as much as I question the character of Zelensky and his government, and also I question the amount of...
	Money that's gone to his country from, you know, the US, UK, other European countries.
	He has gone around and repeatedly said that he's grateful for it and the people of Ukraine thank you for it.
	I've seen it loads.
	And you've got all the examples already.
	You presaged what I was saying.
	And I think that...
	It comes off as being unprepared.
	Yeah, I mean, it's...
	The easiest thing you can find is...
	Also, I think what J.D. Vance specifically said is you haven't said thank you in this meeting, which makes it sound like he wants him to grovel at his feet, which I can understand why he might be insistent on that from an optical perspective, but also I think it's not necessarily the best look.
	I don't think it is, because the point is that if you televise it, most people are going to view it veridically.
	Whereas what they're doing is essentially showing each other's throats and saying, you know, I'm tough.
	That's what they're doing.
	But when they televise, and that's what, from a realistic perspective, that's what they should do.
	But by it being televised, people are going to look at it in terms of truth or falsity.
	So that's, I think, what could have been done better.
	Right, so afterwards Zelensky left the White House.
	And here we have Trump saying Zelensky needs to stop talking about putting this and putting that, all negative things.
	That was, I mean...
	Okay.
	Okay.
	We had here Lindsey Graham completely saying I'm proud.
	I've never been prouder of Trump and Vance.
	I'm a little bit surprised at Lindsey Graham all of a sudden becoming a cheerleader for them because he's not exactly known for that.
	Yeah, but can't it be explained with what I'm saying about statements not being true or false in their minds, but them using statements as expressions of resolution?
	Yes.
	Because they could be saying, okay, Trump is going to be the very anti-war.
	We're going to be the very pro-war.
	And we're going to essentially play both sides.
	That's exactly what's going on.
	I very much agree, yeah.
	And I think that that's why...
	The idea that it's Zelensky messing up, it's Trump working with a lot of his Republican colleagues, really.
	Somehow now, Zelensky tells BBC Ukraine that he's ready to sign the mineral deals with the US. And after that, he went to London, he came to London, he met Keir Starmer, they had an emergency meeting.
	In London, with several leaders.
	Zelensky says here, I'm exchangeable for NATO. What does that mean, exchangeable?
	His presidency.
	Okay.
	It's more like maximalistic demand.
	We're at the point.
	Here he essentially says that Putin is breaking the ceasefires.
	It's the opposite of what he was being told in the meeting.
	That's to be expected.
	Right here, I think Keir Starmer made the biggest, in a sense, non-statement because a lot of people are mad at him for saying so.
	But I think he said, we are ready to put boots on the ground and air on and planes on the air.
	Planes on the air.
	Yes, to defend Ukraine.
	But also he said that the U.S. must be involved.
	So this basically means...
	I want to liaise between the two of you.
	So, Keir Starmer, on this sort of thing, a lot of people have been mistaking what's actually going on here.
	People think that Keir Starmer's saying that we're going to put UK troops in the trenches of Ukraine before there's peace settled.
	And from what I actually understand, it's more that we're going to send people to guarantee...
	It's like a security force, basically, to guarantee the...
	Peace signing and the discussions to just keep the country safe whilst there are negotiations and no war going on.
	So there's got to be a ceasefire before we send troops there.
	So there's not really, unless something terrible happens, going to be a conflict.
	And I'm not necessarily saying we should even do that.
	It seems like lots of people are misunderstanding what's being proposed or discussed, from what I gather anyway.
	But it has been unclear, so it's not necessarily unfair.
	To go to that sort of direction.
	But also, because that's also the theme of the segment, it's not an issue of what Zelensky, Trump, Vance or Starmer are saying.
	It's an issue of what they imply.
	It's an expression of resolution.
	It's just...
	It's us.
	I want to liaise between the two of you.
	That's what he says.
	And he actually also said it explicitly afterwards, that he says that he is working with Macron from France in order to create a negotiation deal and then present it to the US. Right.
	But here Zelensky managed to get a £2.26 billion loan.
	I don't know if you heard that, Josh.
	I did, yeah.
	Just a little...
	A little bit more of my tax money disappearing.
	Thanks for that.
	I think people may estimate that this is around £85 per person.
	That's what I've seen going around, yeah.
	Just some more money out of my bank account when I'm already struggling to make ends meet.
	Thanks for that.
	And here we have the European Union hosting an emergency meeting in London.
	And we have Donald Tusk saying...
	500 million Europeans are asking 300 million Americans to defend them against 140 million Russians.
	Europe today lacks the belief that we are truly a global power.
	And I mean, I think it's insane that Europe has put itself in that position.
	To another extent, it has been placed in such a position post-World War II. Yeah, I mean...
	The American government has deliberately orchestrated this and I do like the fact that what Trump and Vance are trying to do is give us a little bit more, basically give us a kick up the backside to start sticking up for ourselves and I think that that's a good direction for us to go in because in many ways Europe could be one of the major martial powers in the world and I know that Britain's still...
	Projects its power beyond its means militarily, but a lot of other European countries don't do a similar thing, and we could still be better.
	We could still be spending a lot more on our military and getting much better geopolitical positions because of that.
	Exactly.
	Right.
	I completely agree with you, and I do think that Europe needs to put its house in order.
	Absolutely.
	Right.
	Got a few comments, I believe.
	Oh, blimey, quite a few.
	I'm just going to die slowly.
	Bless you, Josh, and please don't die.
	I'm trying not to.
	It's always nice when you cough and you can taste blood.
	Very healthy.
	It's Swindon.
	Yes, the Swindon air.
	The Swindon effect.
	You all right to read some comments?
	Yeah, yeah, okay.
	Oh, sorry.
	I scrolled down to the bottom.
	It's moving.
	Right.
	So, Ramble Quaker.
	Quaker.
	Rumble Quaker.
	You're saying Quaker?
	Yeah.
	Monday morning, greetings from Las Vegas to a couple of my favorite lotus-eating gents.
	Josh, you still had me at Goblins.
	Well, thank you very much.
	That's very kind of you.
	Bald Eagle 1787. Zelensky has zero intention of signing the deal.
	He has backed out three times already at the last second.
	At this point, the U.S. should just walk away and make a deal with the future government of Ukraine.
	I think essentially that's what both sides are trying to say that is going to happen.
	Not necessarily that it will, but both sides make maximalistic demands.
	Right.
	The Engaged Few says Vance should have said...
	Go back to the Lollipop Guild.
	The engaged few says, Gosh, I think a man could be forgiven for thinking that Miss Lindsay's change of heart is explained by his 2026 Senate re-election.
	That's true.
	Fair point.
	Right?
	By Zeran X. Lindsey Graham is a snake.
	He does play both sides.
	Him calling for Zelensky to resign after he was installed is to goad Zelensky's ego.
	Doesn't matter as world leaders insist on the conflict.
	Conor's smug mug.
	The whole thing started with Zelensky bringing up Crimea.
	Look at around the 14th minute.
	And Bold Eagle 1787, VP Vance was wanting a thank you for the American people.
	Zelensky only thanked the people who gave him thanks, i.e. the politicians and bureaucrats, never the citizens who paid the taxes for everything.
	Very true.
	Yeah, I should have talked about that.
	Someone in the chat saying...
	To be honest, I think he said, and the people, but it's just a publicity thing.
	It was a weird question from Vance to ask, because he had easy answers to give, I think.
	So, I hope you've all got your 2025 bingo cards out, because one of the things that I imagine many of you didn't mark down is a social trend of people throwing out Roman salutes.
	If you know what a Roman salute is, there's a mid-century Austrian painter that was quite the enthusiast of them.
	But talking about social trends that are storming the globe...
	Island Magazine is out now.
	Number three.
	It's a beautiful work of art, you see.
	You know, you can see that Rory didn't get turned down from art school.
	And there's some lovely sort of neo-medieval artistry in this particular edition.
	Some great articles from lots of our favourite guests.
	Very insightful stuff.
	I'm looking forward to actually reading some of it.
	This is on the store for a limited time, so if you want to get number three, it'll only be in the store for a while.
	And then it'll be gone.
	We'll be moving on to number four.
	Here it is.
	Look at it.
	It's beautiful.
	It'll look lovely on your bookcase.
	And you'll definitely want to pick one of those up.
	But with that out of the way, I suppose let's go to the saluting, shall we?
	Of course, this is what kicked it off.
	Trendsetter that is Elon Musk did the thing where he said, my heart goes out to you.
	I'm not going to...
	I'm not going to copy what he did.
	But I think he was just being...
	He was sort of worked up in an autistic frenzy.
	And he was really excited.
	He was, like, jumping around the stage.
	And he was just trying to show he's grateful.
	Like, my heart goes out to you.
	And he's going like this, touching his heart.
	And trying to signal to everyone around him, like, it's going out to you people.
	And then he didn't realise how it looks.
	Josh, I think...
	Is it good to say that we...
	Myself and the audience occupy a special place in your heart.
	You do, but I don't need to use a hand gesture to tell you.
	Just my mere presence alone radiates my gratitude to you all.
	Thank you.
	That sounds really sarcastic.
	Now, I do actually mean that, by the way.
	The ADL of all people, even they came out and said, you know what, actually, I don't think Elon Musk is a Nazi.
	They say, this is a delicate moment.
	It's a new day.
	And yet so many are on edge.
	Our politics are inflamed and social media only adds to the anxiety.
	It seems that Elon Musk made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm.
	Not a Nazi salute.
	But again, we appreciate that people are on edge in this moment.
	All sides should give one another a bit of grace, perhaps even the benefit of the doubt and take a breath.
	This is a new beginning.
	Let's hope healing and work towards unity in the months and years ahead.
	Of course, this was back in later January.
	So it's old news to a certain extent.
	But I've got to lay the foundation here.
	So the trend of the salutes makes sense.
	So this is surprisingly reasonable from the ADL. Dare I say I actually kind of agree with what they're saying.
	And I want to sort of quote Starship Troopers and say it's afraid.
	It's being nice to the incumbent Trump presidency because they know that they can do damage to them and they've...
	You know, provoked a certain amount of it.
	And our very own Calvin Robinson, who has his own show on Lotus Eaters, did the same thing here.
	This one wasn't...
	This was obviously echoing Elon Musk and he was trying to do it, I think, as a sort of wind-up, I'm guessing.
	I haven't actually spoke to Calvin about it since, but I know him.
	I don't think he's actually a national socialist.
	But it wasn't the most, you know...
	He didn't put his all in that salute, did he?
	It was sort of a half-hearted one.
	He's also smiling here.
	And also, I really don't think he embraces any kind of such philosophy.
	He was one of the people who were very pro-Churchill when the issue started with this debate.
	He did a segment that I was on where we talked about it, yeah.
	So that's, yeah.
	And I've seen people like Richard Hanania, the weasel himself, saying, priest who thinks it's funny to throw up Nazi salutes defrocked, now banned from America by the Trump administration.
	No, I think it's because he was there to service a church.
	I don't know the technical name.
	I'm very out of touch.
	But he was there to work in his religious capacity, and because he was defrocked, he lost his...
	Right to be in the United States.
	It wasn't that Trump said, let's get rid of this guy.
	I think it was more just a bureaucratic thing, but I think also he's working on staying there for the meantime, and it was just a temporary setback.
	So best of luck with that, Calvin.
	And he's saying, these people are so pathetic, real Nazis should be offended.
	But why do you care, Mr. Hanania, exactly?
	Well, But also by saying real, he puts real in front of it.
	He also says, I don't think he is one.
	No, of course he's not.
	And I think everyone can recognize that as well.
	And then Bannon went on to do the real deal, as in he did a proper one.
	Here he is, look.
	And I think that for Bannon, he...
	He's in a position where he can get away with it.
	He's doing it to provoke the media and the left wing classes.
	He did the proper straight arm.
	He knows how to do it right.
	But I think that he's been in the trenches for such a long time.
	He was imprisoned for his role in politics.
	He's on the war path.
	He's going to do anything to provoke a reaction from the people who he hates.
	When he came out of prison, you could tell he was out for blood.
	And he's just out to...
	Cause mayhem.
	So each person seems to have a different motivation for doing it.
	Elon Musk was trying to express love.
	Calvin was trying to, you know, perhaps agitate a few people, show a bit of solidarity to Elon Musk, perhaps.
	And Bannon was doing...
	Elon Musk needs our help.
	And then Bannon, I think, was doing it to wind up the people who...
	Targeted him and tried to ruin his life.
	Which I can understand.
	But none of them, I think, are serious in their belief of the tenets of National Socialism.
	I think that's fair to say.
	And then, I didn't know about this one until I was preparing, a Mexican actor at CPAC called Eduardo Verestegui?
	I don't know.
	But he did one too.
	Here he is.
	The funny thing is, most modern day...
	He did the heart goes out to you thing again, didn't he?
	And he was deliberately copying the Elon Musk thing.
	So it seems like it's just...
	And copying Trump afterwards.
	But I think there's a trend in Mexico, isn't there?
	Whenever there's someone who's a Nazi online and their identity gets revealed, they're often a Mexican.
	I don't know what it is about Mexico and national socialism.
	I didn't know that.
	The funny thing is as well, loads of followers of Nick Fuentes, the so-called Groypers, lots of Mexicans there.
	Of course, Nick Fuentes being Mexican himself doesn't help, but it's just amusing that intersect.
	So Mexicans, we know them to be more genuine enthusiasts of their Austrian painter friend.
	For whatever reason, I don't know what it is.
	Maybe tacos make you...
	You know, like National Socialism.
	I don't think they do because I absolutely love tacos.
	Okay, maybe not.
	So, I think it's fair to say by this point, everyone and their dog has been doing these salutes.
	In fact, people have spotted a dog doing the salute.
	A statue of a dog.
	Here it is.
	You know, clearly a Nazi dog.
	This post didn't go very far, but I thought it was funny.
	So I've included it anyway.
	Another person, someone who lives in Romania.
	You could think maybe a sort of Ceausescu-like figure, controversial.
	Oh no, it's Tristan Tate.
	But it looks like everyone was saying he did a Nazi salute.
	I think he was just waving as he was getting on a plane.
	I'm not a fan.
	No, nor am I. That doesn't seem like one.
	It seems like a wave to me.
	It seems like a wave.
	And then, this is one that you put me on to, Stelios.
	Yes.
	Who is a Romanian guy called Georgescu.
	That seemed like a real one to me.
	He also won the elections, not just a random guy.
	He won the elections today.
	I don't follow Romanian politics.
	Is he the guy who the EU sort of astroturfed in?
	Yes, so the allegation is that he is a Putin puppet and thousands of euros have been found in the houses of his bodyguards.
	Okay.
	That's the late thing, but before they were...
	Yes, I mean, there has been a serious issue in the democratic thing.
	Some Romanian friends I have tell me that he is a bit...
	He says some really weird things, like talking about telepathy and about the Dacians, but still, an election is an election.
	Exactly.
	No, I'm not absorbing their responsibility on this.
	So I don't mean to alarm any Americans, particularly if you live in New York, but there is a prominent Nazi in New York.
	Here we go.
	As Jared Taylor points out here...
	Send me your moustaches.
	There's a great big statue.
	They might be holding a torch, but you know what?
	You know, those people at Charlottesville were holding, they were holding torches, and you know what they were?
	You know, the media wouldn't lie to you about that, would they?
	And is it brown if you scratch it, the statue?
	Is it a brown shirt?
	Maybe.
	It's entirely possible.
	It's a big cover-up.
	But another example here, Kamala Harris.
	You know, it's worth pointing out that Tim Waltz also did the same thing.
	It's just so popular these days.
	Lots of Democrats have done it.
	It's sort of an inane conversation at this point because anyone can freeze frame something and find someone doing this arm gesture if they are a public speaker.
	There are lots of reasons you could do this.
	It's such a boring and sort of inane bit of political commentary to be like, the Democrats do it too.
	Oh, who cares?
	But also in Britain, Jeremy Corbyn, that looks like a proper one to be fair.
	The trend has crossed the Atlantic now.
	And he looks ecstatic.
	He does.
	He's a very happy Nazi.
	Also, British so-called comedian Jonathan Pye, as Kyle points out, has done it ironically before outside of a court.
	Obviously...
	Doing it as satire doesn't mean you agree with the thing, and I think everyone understands that, don't they?
	I'm sure the left understands context, don't they?
	That's definitely true.
	But here's a real one.
	This was in Italy, and this was for...
	Was it the great-grandson of Benito Mussolini?
	And when he scored, all of the crowd did the salute.
	I think these Italians probably know how to do it, don't they?
	There they are.
	But they were sort of doing it in a tongue-in-cheek way, weren't they?
	For a bit of fun.
	I don't think every single person who did that there is secretly some sort of mid-century German enthusiast or fascist.
	Although the Italians are a lot more unapologetic about their history than the Germans are.
	And in fact, you know, it's pretty normal for people to say, yeah, I joined the...
	I don't want to say that because it's going to get...
	Cropped out of context, but an Italian will say, I joined the fascist party.
	I said it anyway, who cares?
	And it'll be like a run-of-the-mill thing, just like, yeah, I went for a run the other day.
	But there's also people talking, this is a very long and boring thing, but apparently teachers...
	And now worried about children doing it as well.
	And they're saying that there was a child pointing in their class, and they were worried that they were actually trying to do a Nazi salute, but they changed it to a point when they turned around.
	And this level of paranoia about young children is absolute madness.
	You can see this sort of neuroticism of these left-wing people.
	And the thing I do want to read is...
	Social studies teacher here, I shut that down immediately.
	I ask them what they think they're doing, then if they try and play cute and hurr, then I thoroughly explain exactly what that stands for.
	What Hitler and the SS did, how many people, Jews, LGBTQ, Romani, Eastern Europeans and other minorities were killed just for existing?
	I don't think they were killed just for existing, by the way.
	Then I ask if they want a significant portion of the people they know abducted and most likely killed.
	That is just child abuse.
	It's like, if you put your hand up in a way I don't like...
	I'm going to say that a significant portion of your family are killed.
	This person should not be a teacher.
	I think that's safe to say.
	I mean, well, the point is with young people, if you approach them in a very authoritarian way, it's going to have the exact opposite effects.
	Yeah, just look at me.
	Yeah, when, for instance, you see them doing things you don't like or you think that they...
	They have a sort of meaning that eludes them.
	You have to explain it to them.
	And if you are not the person to explain it to them, then don't explain it to them.
	Also, you can't be antagonistic.
	You've got to be patient and forgiving to children.
	Yes.
	I don't believe I have to actually say that in this day and age.
	Yes, be kind to children.
	What a world we live in.
	How modernity made us soft.
	Apparently so.
	And then there's another example of a girl.
	This is down below here.
	But here we are.
	She did a salute here.
	She ran an X account which posted unironic shills for Hitler.
	And then they're just like, we don't believe that's actually you in your profile picture because it showed a girl in the profile picture.
	And then, because she cares about social media clout, posted a picture of herself doing a salute, with the wrong hand as well, by the way.
	She's not doing it correctly.
	Typical woman.
	Can't even Nazi salute correctly.
	She posted this, and it blew up, obviously, as you would imagine.
	And then she posted a picture saying that she lost her job.
	Which...
	I mean, on the one hand, I don't think someone should lose their job over being an idiot on the internet.
	However, what did you expect?
	I'm not excusing it, necessarily.
	I'm also not a national socialist myself.
	But eventually she went on to delete her account, and I'd actually taken lots of links of interesting things to contextualise it.
	The left-wing response was just saying that she looked like Chris Jericho, which given...
	Oh, that's a good post.
	It did make me laugh.
	She did annoy me as well.
	I posted a post just like, she's obviously just doing it for attention because when her ex-account was still there, it was loads of pictures of her, you know, making silly, annoying girl social media.
	Faces where they put their lips out and, you know, she's posting, like, good morning of her lying in bed.
	And it's like, you're obviously just fishing for engagement.
	You're an attention whore, basically.
	It's also weird that she's saying she's 19, right?
	And she's there quoting, like, Alexander Dugan, which we'll get onto in a second.
	I don't get it.
	But just to prove that she's grifting.
	She was bragging about the analytic boost that she got before she deleted the actual account.
	She's there, like, 2 billion percent increased in impressions.
	And also, look at the profile picture.
	The profile picture of her turning around, poking her arse out.
	We all know she's looking for attention.
	It's not about the politics.
	It's just about...
	It's not about art or something.
	It's not about celebrating the human form.
	Well, she didn't get kicked out of art school, so I'm afraid there's no parallel there.
	She was also posting...
	Can you click and make the picture larger?
	Larger than that?
	Oh, no, no.
	The account's gone, Stelios.
	So I can't click on it.
	But she also posted a link trying to grift to get...
	People to buy energy drinks, just to show that people are now noticing this social trend and are just jumping on it for attention and money.
	I'm not surprised, to be honest.
	Even though she's trying to LARP as someone involved in politics, I don't believe a 19-year-old girl has actually, you know, been reading the Nazbol texts, has she?
	Let's be honest.
	Especially if she behaves like this.
	I don't think so.
	And also it's worth pointing out she's got a TikTok where she does normal things like not Nazi salute.
	I'm not trying to advertise it.
	Don't go on her profile.
	TikTok's cancer anyway.
	Yeah.
	Don't engage with these people.
	They're annoying.
	But she's doing the same sort of social media girl things that they all do of posting inane nonsense that nobody cares about.
	Also the nails.
	Oh, who cares?
	Bimbo nails are unforgivable.
	The funny thing is, I don't understand the draw of social media.
	Nothing about my life is that interesting even to me, let alone me wanting to share it to other people.
	It just shows that you've got a massive amount of insecurity and you need...
	Some sort of vapid self-affirmation to feel good about yourself.
	I hate it.
	Yeah, I think basically she just wants attention.
	She tries to find audiences and she...
	I feel a little bit bad trashing on a 19-year-old girl who's basically ruined her own life.
	So it's worth being said.
	In the grand scheme of things, it's not the end of the world.
	Who cares, really?
	Girl acted silly.
	She doesn't deserve her life to be ruined.
	I don't think she should deserve her to lose her job.
	She deserves to have a life and, you know, live a relatively normal existence.
	She doesn't deserve to have a know your meme page explaining it all.
	But you can see here the original post and all of her, you know, pictures she's posting.
	I mean, I'm sure she'll find her job somewhere else.
	Well, she's not going to get hired by the Daily Wire, but...
	She might be able to find a job elsewhere.
	Normally riding the tide of popularity.
	Yeah, that does get people somewhere.
	As long as they don't mess up, they can turn it into something.
	But here she is, like, four facts about the world.
	And the first one that she says, this is not what I think, Nazis were the good guys.
	Thank you for that very astute political commentary there, 19-year-old girl.
	Everything we've been told about World War II is a lie.
	World War II happened.
	That is a lie.
	It never happened.
	Some of the other ones I can't read because YouTube...
	I can't read because YouTube will come down hard on us.
	But it's the usual sort of stuff.
	It's nothing that people haven't heard before.
	But it suggests that perhaps she might have been LARPing.
	The whole package.
	But, yeah, she's a Dugin fan, apparently.
	That's what the word is on the street, the social media street.
	The fact I have to know this sort of stuff just kills me.
	At 19 years old, she has absorbed Heidegger and the existentialists and also read his interpretation of Heidegger.
	Yeah, she's read René Guinnon, she's read Evelyn, she's read Carl Schmitt, Heidegger.
	She's just a...
	A sophisticated scholar.
	Yeah, she's the next ideological voice of Eurasianism.
	This is a little bit distasteful, to be fair.
	I will say that about my own commentary here, because, you know, a couple of scholars like ourselves, in the actual sense, not in the urban scholar sense.
	Wait, that's a hit below the belt.
	You're a scholarly gentleman, Stanley.
	A gentleman and a scholar.
	Not so much an engineer.
	More of a scholar.
	My PhD...
	I'm not a doctor in engineering, if that is what you're implying.
	So, this whole sort of debacle reminds me a little bit of this lady.
	Lily.
	Yes.
	So, Lily Gaddis, I think her name is.
	She was basically doing trad wife TikToks, and then she just casually dropped an N-bomb, which, to be fair, in the context, you...
	And she also used the adjective broke bottom.
	Broke, back-sided urban scholars.
	I saw that look, Samson.
	I wasn't going to say it alright.
	I'm not going to get us in trouble.
	But yeah, that clip went viral even though she was saying it for comedic effect.
	And then what she did was, I think she deleted the original video.
	So TikTok wouldn't come down hard on her, but she didn't apologise.
	And she's still got a pretty sizable social media following.
	And posts actually sane takes and good things.
	Like, I enjoy calling this sort of stuff out.
	Here she's saying, influences are fake and gay, which is 100% true.
	I despise that term and everything that they do and exist.
	By the way, this border is going to make history.
	It will.
	And also, I found this hilarious.
	All brown people do is shove their culture down our throats in our country, and that's Vivek.
	And if I scroll down, you can see why she said it.
	This is unironically good.
	Good.
	Social media posting.
	This is what I want to see more of.
	What the previous girl should have done is not delete her account and do more of this.
	Because that's funny.
	Own it.
	If you're going to be edgy, own it.
	That's what I say.
	Don't apologise.
	No half-hearted measures.
	Although she didn't seem like she was sort of out for a grift and for attention in the same way.
	She was doing wholesome things.
	Maybe people feel differently.
	I don't know her that well.
	Like showing baking stuff.
	She had an apron.
	She was in the kitchen where she belongs.
	Because the average trad woman is making TikTok videos of them.
	That's true.
	I'm begging.
	Ideally, no one should be on social media, including me.
	I have to do it for my job, but ideally, it's not good for anyone.
	Don't go on it at all.
	Especially don't upload yourself, you know, doing the Roman salute.
	But I wanted to go over some thoughts about this sort of thing, because I have a question to pose to you, Stelios.
	And that question is, to chimp or not to chimp?
	That is the question.
	And by that I mean...
	By doing this and winding up the left and making them chimp out, as in lose their minds, is that advantageous or not?
	Because winding up the left could be advantageous because their freakouts look really bad publicly and they're funny.
	We have a really big archive of meltdowns.
	We do.
	We enjoy it.
	You know, if someone enjoys a good meltdown, that's me.
	Stelios is our meltdown connoisseur.
	And if they act so irrationally, if they're not able to think straight because they think, oh my goodness, the Nazis are taking over, look at everyone saluting, and they make a massive political mistake, then that could be advantageous.
	But my personal opinion is that the left will think that it makes their accusations that everyone is a Nazi more true, and to make things a bit real.
	I know I've been sort of joking around.
	They've already tried to kill Trump multiple times.
	They have killed Trump supporters for just wearing MAGA hats.
	Maybe it's good not to paint a target on your back.
	As much as I hate leftists, and I really do, you've got to come to terms with the reality that they can still attack you in cowardly ways.
	Like the guy, the Trump supporter that was killed was shot in the back of the head.
	Didn't even know it was coming.
	And so there's a very practical aspect to it of you don't want to rile them up too much because then it's dangerous for your safety if you publicly show that you support Trump in any way, which is not an ideal situation.
	And although that's going away to a certain extent, you don't want this to come back again.
	Okay, I have three points to make at least.
	Go ahead.
	I'll waste no time.
	So, number one, I think that...
	Winding them up is not the issue because they want to be winded.
	They want an excuse for it.
	They're just looking for an excuse.
	That's true.
	If that's not it, they'll find another one.
	They're a psychology.
	Number two, it's not an issue of what the left says and what justifies them in saying because they have been saying this regardless.
	Trend or no trend.
	They have been saying this regardless.
	The whole...
	They try to say, if you're left of Mao, you're a fascist.
	There's no negotiating with rabid leftists, basically.
	Well, that.
	Now, on another bit, the third point, which takes the left completely out of it.
	I think it becoming a trend is unfortunate.
	Because the point is that when you are in society and you care about society and you want...
	To not disintegrate into bad situations.
	There are several signs you look and you see that things are going that way.
	So, for instance, when people start saying that they want to revise completely, they say everything you know is wrong, the Austrian painter was the good guy, that's what they try to say, things like that, they function as signs.
	So when people start saying Stalin was the good guy, well, alarms go off, don't they?
	Of course.
	So if people started making a trend of saying, well, Stalin was the good guy, Stalin was the good guy, we want to wind up the other ones, you know, the anti-communists, it would be much more difficult to actually sort out the real Stalinists from those who make...
	Who make a joke out of it.
	If everyone started doing it, you wouldn't be able to know when your alarm should go off.
	So it's basically signal distortion.
	If I'm driving and I turn the right flashlight...
	The indicator, yeah.
	Yeah, everyone says that this is an indicator, I want to go right.
	If everyone starts having the right flashlight on, whether they go right or left or forward, Or reverse, it kind of cancels the signal out.
	I see what you're saying in that people have got to know where people stand or are going to be able to keep things sort of functioning.
	Yes, yes.
	Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
	It's more like signal obfuscation.
	And a lot of people want this because they say that, no, I want to completely destroy the narrative.
	That is, somehow they loosely associate with our current world.
	Yeah, some parts of that narrative are correct.
	Some are disastrously false, and it is complacency to not look at it, but some parts are correct.
	Yeah, my sort of opinion on the history is that there's plenty of lies being spun, but you shouldn't also throw the baby out of the bathwater with some of it, right?
	It's not that all of history is wrong in its entirety.
	Everything you know is wrong, Josh.
	Damn it.
	It's a hologram created by a spaceship.
	I need to go back and relearn it all.
	Another question I wanted to ask, one of the final ones, is I think that even though it's controversial and might upset people, I still think that you should legally be able to do this sort of thing, even though I think that it might needlessly invite controversy and I wouldn't advise it.
	I see it as a part of free expression and I think that people should...
	Have the right to do it if they see fit, whether they believe in the actual ideology behind it or not.
	If they're doing it for a joke, it doesn't matter.
	It shouldn't be up to the government to determine your intention.
	And I also think in an ideal world, you shouldn't lose your job either.
	But also, on the other side of the coin, I don't think the state should force someone to employ someone they don't want.
	So, you know, if it got to a position where someone did one of these salutes and then...
	They worked for a small company where it was a family business or something, and they're just like, okay, I'm not okay with this, and they get rid of them.
	The state shouldn't then say, oh, by the way, we're fining you for getting rid of them, because at the end of the day, people should be able to employ whoever they want.
	And this is the same principle of not forcing a Christian bakery to bake gay marriage cakes.
	I think that's...
	A far more frustrating thing because I think people should be able to hold their own beliefs and conduct their own life however they see fit.
	And you shouldn't force Christians to bake something that they see as blasphemous.
	And you shouldn't force people to keep people on.
	But what I would like to see is a culture that is a little bit more forgiving of people just being a bit silly and having a bit more fun.
	Because Calvin's seen real consequences.
	That girl has seen consequences.
	I don't know what you think of all of that.
	No, I agree with you.
	So, the moral of the story is you need to be more like this guy.
	Don't do the salute.
	You know, when everyone's pressuring you, sit there and don't salute.
	And do you know, Stelios, that this guy...
	After this photo was taken, he was actually the guy that went on and killed Hitler.
	You believe it?
	What an interesting fella.
	Obviously, I'm joking.
	But yeah, I think going around saluting is probably not the best idea.
	Please don't do that.
	However, I think that people are very unreasonable about it.
	I think people just need to recognise it for what it is.
	Most of the time, it's people just being silly and don't make a big deal out of it.
	However, as we've discussed, there are some important aspects to it.
	Okay, we've got a bunch of comments here.
	Oh, some of these ones we've already done.
	That persuasive voice is a real weapon, Josh.
	I think you could convince the International Olympic Committee to make a puppy kicking into a sport.
	What have I persuaded you to do?
	I'm not trying to get people to do anything other than think about being socially responsible.
	No, I like post-prison Bannon.
	He's got this sort of attitude of take no prisoners that I appreciate.
	Very good.
	And then MeSeek says, just FYI, that Coffee Girl was fake.
	Some guy paid her 5k for that pic and then used her social media pics to advertise for his based energy drink.
	She wasn't fired, by the way.
	Oh, really?
	I didn't know that.
	Nevertheless, the point wasn't whether she was authentic or not.
	I called her a loser anyway.
	And the point was the political climate and the culture in which that sort of thing can exist in.
	Right.
	So you've heard leftists don't want to suffer the consequences of their own actions.
	That is true.
	They hate the consequences of their own actions.
	They do everything to be insulated from them.
	Exactly.
	And one of the things that characterise their houses is that they do not accommodate several people that they want to be in the country.
	Refugees.
	My favourite thing about this is when you go around a refugee's welcome protest saying, would you like to take a refugee?
	I can sort it out right now.
	They're just like, oh, sorry, I don't have the room.
	Oh, no, no, no, I'm sorry, I can't.
	They're all apologising, making excuses.
	But when other people's tax money is extorted through the government out of them, all of a sudden when the government has stolen money from other people, it's okay to spend that money putting up foreign independence.
	It's funny, isn't it?
	Because, Josh, I mean, you're looking at it from an individualistic perspective.
	The point is outsource things to others, to the social.
	Somehow, even if they don't have individual responsibility, it's the folk or the society that has responsibility that they don't have.
	So others are basically called to do things that they don't.
	After this podcast, I'm going to go out on the street and punch someone in the face, and then I'm going to say, it wasn't my fault, it was society that made me do it.
	And everyone would be like, fair enough, Josh, you go free, it's okay.
	But it was society that made you do it.
	That's true, it did.
	Right, and we are going to talk about a theatre in France.
	That is actually...
	You made that sound so sinister, you lent in.
	We're going to talk about a theatre.
	Yeah, exactly.
	But it is a sinister topic.
	It is actually quite funny.
	But as you mentioned, it's a microcosm of the West at the moment.
	It certainly is, yes.
	Exactly.
	And the point is that it shows when the left actually tastes its own medicine.
	We are going to see some justice be dished out today and it is beautiful.
	Exactly.
	So your eyes have seen the glory.
	Of justice in this case.
	For once in my life, yes.
	Right, so before we tell you more about this French theatre that is full of degeneracy and crime.
	As usual.
	And sex and...
	That's French theatre more generally.
	Yeah, but they are protesting about it, so that's poetic justice, isn't it?
	It is.
	Right, but before we say more about this, we have Oil Under 3. We have...
	We have this new issue of our magazine.
	Rory has done a really good job.
	You see here, really nice picture.
	I really like the aesthetic, but also the thing is that Rory reinvented it because the third issue seems a bit different to the first two.
	I think that this shows really good energy and vigor and creativity.
	You can order it here.
	It's just $14.99.
	It's not even £15.
	That's true.
	Not even £15.
	That is objectively correct.
	It's not £15.
	It is £14.99.
	And for that price, who can say no?
	And if you have dollars, we do accept those as well.
	In fact, we do international shipping.
	So yeah, there's that.
	Right.
	So the topic we're going to talk about is a topic that is an ongoing one.
	And Karl has made a video about it on the Daily Channel.
	That was a month ago before there were proper developments, let's say.
	It was only in its budding stage, but the flower has come full bloom today.
	Exactly, and he did this on the Daily Channel that we have set up.
	By all means, go and check it out.
	And it did really well, and it's called Africans Hijack a Leftist Theatre.
	Which is a pretty good description of what happened.
	But I think there is a vampiric element into it, because they were invited in.
	Africans only come in when invited.
	Exactly, yeah, so maybe they should throw garlic or holy water to the smell.
	Right, so here is the la guette lyric.
	La guette lyric.
	Please could you do that again?
	La guette lyric.
	I messed it up that time, actually.
	I do actually speak a little bit of French, but I... I've got a sore throat at the minute, which is making it a lot more difficult.
	Right, so here we have the history of this theatre.
	It's quite historic, actually.
	It's from the 1860s.
	Oh, wow.
	It's quite old then.
	Oh, it looks lovely from the outside.
	Yeah, and actually it's one of the playhouses that followed...
	The modernization of Paris and the destruction of the theaters on the Boulevard du Temple.
	And they say that it was built in on September the 3rd, 1862. So, it's another era.
	It's also a shame that it's gone the direction it has for such a beautiful historic building.
	But, sorry, do carry on.
	Look at it.
	Look at all the culture oozing from this image.
	They've made it look a little bit grim behind the bars and with the winter trees in front of it, but I'm sure it would look lovely if they actually took a decent picture.
	When you look at it, what does it feel like it's inside?
	What are the images you conjure?
	I think it's a place of...
	It's a cultural high-water mark.
	It's a place of sophistication, of pushing the boundaries of the transcendence.
	Exactly.
	I think I'd wear a tuxedo and go in and go watch a play or an opera like Tosca or a two-round door.
	But there are issues.
	The problem is that the gate is currently closed.
	Due to the occupation of the building and in the absence of solutions proposed by the competent authorities, the lyrical management is currently unable to maintain the conditions allowing the...
	I really can't pronounce this.
	Of the public in its spaces.
	I think maybe they say the public going there on its spaces.
	Right.
	And the decision was made to keep the building closed.
	I like how you are highlighting it, Samson, as if that would help me.
	I just don't know the word.
	Right.
	The problem is you can't see it.
	If he highlights it, you can pronounce it.
	That's a trick with French.
	Right, okay.
	Pardon my French, Josh.
	But once it actually means that.
	Yes, the decision was made to keep the building closed.
	Scheduled events are cancelled, postponed or relocated.
	So, look at the events here to get a sense of it.
	Here we have a debate about new images of masculinity.
	We have someone here who seems to be going to the gym and someone else here who seems to be pregnant.
	We have here...
	Pregnant with a beer belly, maybe.
	I can't throw stones.
	There's also the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, though.
	Danny DeVito.
	Oh, of course, yeah.
	His body, his choice.
	It's not a tumour.
	That one, yeah.
	Right, so we have here...
	Can finance scam to the aid of our city centre?
	My belly is a volcano.
	I think they really had bad food there.
	I thought French food was meant to be good.
	Volcanoes erupt, you know, upwards, but stomachs sometimes can erupt down.
	Where is this going?
	I know, no, but actually, that's actually the question we need to be asking them, because you're a theatre, you had events, none of these events are going to be staged.
	So what's going on?
	That's a major issue.
	What's going on here?
	Cancellation, maternity cause, where's the care?
	Cancelled.
	Heartbeat.
	Why did they need a theatre to have a maternity course anyway?
	No idea, Josh.
	No idea.
	But they seem to be having ongoing problems, and they say here, why we must support Lyric Gate.
	More than 300 cultural, political, and civil society actors call on the public authority to save Lyric Gate by finding an urgent solution of rehousing for the 400 young people who occupied.
	Just young people.
	They're young people, are they?
	These young people.
	Is it the theatre YMCA? Young people come to associate.
	Right, so the point is, we have leftists asking for a problem to be solved.
	The major question is, who caused the problem?
	Leftists.
	Exactly.
	They are the people who are the problem they want to be solved.
	Right.
	And they say here, we cultural and civil society actors actively support Larigate.
	In a few years, the social and international cultural landscape has been disrupted.
	Major geopolitical threats have emerged.
	Territorial imperialism resurfaces.
	Authoritarianism.
	They really need a mirror.
	Basically.
	You idiots.
	You invited in a bunch of Africans and now you're blaming imperialism and authoritarianism.
	And territorial imperialism.
	Because it is.
	That's what they're doing.
	The bitter irony is that Africans are now taking over their territory.
	They've colonised it.
	Exactly.
	And they say, no, it's our territory now.
	Look at me.
	It's my theatre now.
	You know why I did it with an Arnie accent?
	It was meant to be a Somali pirate.
	I've got a sore throat, okay, I'm allowed.
	Right, the environmental issue is denied while everywhere social fragmentation, divisions, the confrontation are progressive, polarization, fruit of the omnipotence of shameless social networks gangrene the public space.
	All of these are just fancy words of saying we effed up, we want some competent people to come up and solve the problem we created.
	This is poetic justice.
	This is all the left has ever been about.
	It's nice to revel in some actual justice go on in Europe for once.
	In this moment of change where democracy is wavering, where the law of the strongest imposes and seems to triumph, we cultural actors of the social and solidarity economy in civil society have the duty to respond.
	What absurd nonsense.
	Talking about democracy.
	Your theatre's been taken over by a bunch of Africans.
	There's nothing to do with democracy about it.
	You have a Josh.
	Are you going to vote them out?
	To defend shared values, a common vision, the ambition to meet and act collectively.
	Right.
	So let's see here some pictures.
	What happened was that there was an event at some point at the, I think it was in early December 2024, there was an event that was staged to display solidarity for the refugees of the world in France.
	And what happened was that a lot of academics and social and cultural actors, as they are saying, are...
	We're involved into that play and they handed in 250 to 300 free tickets.
	If you see the number, it constantly goes up, but this isn't precisely because they bring more and more people in.
	And when the event stopped, they gave 250 tickets for free to African migrants.
	Often when a theatre gives away free tickets, it's because they're embarrassed about not having very many people turn up.
	It's low attendance.
	They know it's going to be low attendance.
	And so going to a bunch of African migrants that were vagrant on the street...
	To get some people on the seats just to save face is kind of hilarious.
	But also, what is actually hilarious is that they are putting up a fuss about it and the African migrants just said, no, we're not leaving.
	And then they're making a, the leftists are making a sort of announcement about territorial imperialism.
	I know.
	On the main website.
	It's almost like private property and, you know, having borders and being able to defend them is important or something, isn't it?
	Strange.
	So they basically just said, we don't want to leave.
	We're going to stay here.
	My favourite thing about this article, by the way, is that this article from the New York Times is trying to argue, they're trying to prove that they're just kids.
	It says more than 300 homeless African immigrants are camping out in the...
	Waiting for officials to rule on whether they are minors and eligible for benefits like housing.
	Look at all these children.
	These children here.
	They look like children.
	They're definitely children.
	No, they're not, obviously.
	Economic chances.
	They said that they did this because there is a law that says that adults who don't have shelter...
	Deserves shelter and must be given shelter.
	Not adults, minors.
	Yeah, well...
	That's why they tried to...
	The things that lefty lawyers put them onto, I imagine.
	Yes.
	Right, so what happened was that we have...
	We had, over these months, several people...
	What I would like to say is...
	Look at that bongo playing.
	It's terrible.
	It might be a different kind of drum, but...
	This is from a month and a half back.
	They're basically saying we're not leaving.
	They're also not able to keep a simple rhythm.
	You've got one job, Africans.
	I mean, you're known for being able to play the drums.
	What are you playing at?
	Clearly not instruments.
	Maybe they...
	I think they are...
	They don't have the musical talent you may expect.
	It's just hitting things at a regular interval.
	It's not hard.
	Yes, and this is from December.
	We have essentially the same thing.
	They go out and they protest.
	And we have Raleigh saying, Unaccompanied minors without papers have been occupying the gate lyric for over a week for rehousing.
	Tonight they're holding an open general assembly in front of the occupied...
	I like how they call it General Assembly.
	Imagine they called it the National Assembly.
	We have the third or the fourth estate.
	Now we're going to call ourselves the National Assembly.
	It's going to be another French Revolution.
	Entirely African-led.
	It's going to be about the 537th French Revolution post-1789.
	We have here, again, they just say things and just protest.
	But things have become worse.
	You can see here the images.
	They're sleeping just in the gallery parts, it looks like.
	I don't think Netanyahu and Trump were in that building, by the way.
	I think that might have been an unrelated article.
	That might have been an unrelated article.
	So, you see this.
	This is not how I pictured the theatre.
	No, me neither.
	It looks very modern on the inside.
	Turns out less is lost than we thought.
	But also more packed.
	It's busier.
	It's got a bustling atmosphere.
	It feels very cultural.
	There's a lot of culture present there, isn't there?
	Yes.
	And as you would have expected, Josh, what happens when you have a small place that is overcrowded and you have people forcibly occupying it and their whole being there defies the law and you don't have enough resources?
	Do bad things happen, Stelios?
	Yes.
	And not just bad things happen.
	Worst things happen every now and then.
	So it has disintegrated.
	Who would have guessed?
	It's just two minutes before the Lord of the Flies scenario.
	It's really bad.
	So they're refusing to leave and there's a wave of sex-related violence.
	So, what was it?
	Nearly 500 Africans turn up in a place and sex-related violence rockets.
	And also drugs.
	Also violence and the staff of the theater are saying that we cannot function as security personnel because we're not security personnel and we want the competent authorities to do something about it.
	But this is actually a really good analogy for what this is about because it's a microcosm of the world that we are living in.
	It's a microcosm of the West at the moment.
	I very much agree.
	There was something on the next link, I think, that right towards the end, I couldn't find who originally said it, but it's an excellent summary of how it's the perfect symbol of the effect of immigration.
	Is it alright if I read some of this?
	Yeah, of course.
	It says a theatre, which is collective equipment, result of centuries of cultural development, a completely left-wing programme.
	Which represents cultural hegemony, universalism, out of touch, moralising humanism, 400 Africans who have turned up there, the great replacement, that symbolises, employees who welcome them in name of their values, Western naivety and suicidal empathy, and then there's an increase in violence, in brackets, savagery, and destruction of property through improper use, such as indoor fires, third worldisation, we see a lot of this, don't we, in a lot of European countries.
	Closure of the theatre, immigration which destroys pre-existing cultural habits, impoverishment of collective life, impossibility of perpetuating activities which require a certain social functioning and the result is one less public facility, employees have left, withdrawal into the private and community sphere and the disappearance of pre-existing populations.
	And also the communication of the message that the law cannot be enforced.
	So yeah, this is exactly...
	Perfect to communicate, as an example, the impact of mass immigration more generally.
	Because what we actually see here is the fact that all of these principles that happened in the theatre are replicated perfectly in society.
	A bunch of Africans turn up.
	Doesn't have to be Africans.
	Could be from other parts of the world that aren't Europe or North America or East Asia.
	Basically anywhere where it's not a developed country.
	They turn up.
	They take over.
	They make things worse because the reason their countries are bad in the first place is because of...
	The virtues of the people themselves.
	They bring those virtues, or lack thereof, to the country and make it like their home country.
	And that's what's happened here.
	You know, there's an increase in violence, there's destruction of property, they start lighting fires indoors because they don't know how to exist in civilisation.
	Because what has happened is people who are incapable of existing in a modern society have been brought to one and they just don't have the capability ever to...
	To learn how to exist to the same capacity as, say, a French person or a European more generally.
	And this is what happens.
	Everyone loses.
	They're living like a modern-day troglodyte, living in their fancy French cave, lighting fires in there like a hunter-gatherer.
	The French lose a significant cultural theatre and, you know, trust is broken, society breaks down, and it's a chip in the sort of crack to the breakdown of civil society.
	And I will add that it seems like they had already lost the theatre a long time ago at Stage 2, the completely left-wing programme.
	Yes.
	Exactly.
	So that's the Trojan horse.
	I mean, it is sort of good that because it was used in such left-wing ways, I don't feel too bad about it disappearing.
	If it were a proper theatre that put on things of cultural import, then I would be a bit more angry about this.
	But because it's sort of a taste of their own medicine, there's a beautiful irony to it.
	It allows you to revel in the suffering of those who brought it upon themselves.
	Exactly.
	But there is a tragedy there that although on the individual level it is an issue of poetic justice, it unfortunately has lots of social ramifications.
	Of course.
	And a lot of people are the collateral damage here.
	So whatever we say about poetic justice when it comes to people who do this, be it in a house, in a neighborhood, at a theater or at a country at large, It has real-life consequences, and it's really bad.
	Right.
	Samson, could we have a few more minutes for everything?
	Excellent.
	Thank you.
	So, have we got any video comments?
	Well, we can read some regular comments in the meantime.
	I didn't even hear from Samson whether we have video comments.
	Okay, he's loading them up.
	Never mind.
	I'll read a couple of comments, or...
	Do you want to start some of yours, and then we'll pick up again?
	Yes, yes.
	Right, so, James Hoffman.
	Oh, here we are.
	Never mind.
	We've already seen this one.
	Oh, no.
	No, we haven't.
	I've watched that one, but not the reaction.
	Never mind.
	Ignore me.
	Carry on.
	I could rip my face off, and there wouldn't be a great deal I could do about it.
	Funny thing is, I reckon I could take a monkey.
	I feel like the monkey...
	They were big ones, though.
	They were like, what?
	I could take a...
	Four foot tall.
	I'm basically a big monkey.
	I'll take a monkey.
	About a one-on-one...
	Bare knuckle boxing match.
	Bare knuckle, one at one to the death.
	What's that, Halo?
	It looked like it.
	No, that's fair.
	The monkey wins.
	I'm willing to see Harry try.
	You'll be satisfied only if the United Kingdom will take a thousand refugees.
	But we haven't the money for these.
	It all seems so quaint now, doesn't it?
	It's funny how even 40 years ago in Yes Minister, it was an open secret that the true seat of sovereignty lies in the unelected bureaucracy.
	Yet dare publicly utter that truth today, and you'll probably be done in for treason.
	Hawthorne, of course, puts in a masterful portrayal of Sir Humphrey.
	But it gets even better to put it next to his performance in Demolition Man.
	unknowingly a perfect portrayal of the civil service's own transformation from cynical bureaucratic real politique to the glassy-eyed utopian tyrant.
	Look, you can't take away people's right to be assholes.
	Great film, by the way, but...
	But no, good commentary as ever.
	My goodness, this is getting terrifying now.
	Since I build mechs in real life, I figure a good promotional tool would be making a mech video game informed by my experiences.
	I've been fiddling with Game Maker since 2006, and even though it is not negatively meant for 3D graphics, it is surprising what you can squeeze out of it if you're stubborn enough.
	I'll be updating the higher res graphics once all the game systems are complete.
	Best of luck with both building your robot army and your game.
	I know when the robot apocalypse, you know, the takeover happens, you're going to be made king.
	So who's laughing, really?
	Right.
	Well, I'm sure Harry's already been excoriated in the comments section as to what we refer to AOC and her coterie of like-minded morons.
	They're the squad, or as I like to call them, the squat, as in what you do when you take a crap, not the click.
	So there you go, Harry.
	Yep, they're the squad.
	I've heard people call them that before.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	So James Hoffman says, regarding Zelensky wearing a suit, you'd think it was a nothing comment, but then go look and see what he wears when he meets Klaus Schwab at the WEF. It's a suit.
	The man's a fake.
	I did see a picture, but I also heard that it was from before the war.
	But if it's from during the war, it's a mistake.
	Right.
	So Fuzzy Toaster.
	Karl had a good take on this last night.
	Zelensky needs to be shown to be begging.
	The left paradigm needs to know that the way they do things is over or should be over.
	And Zelensky is perfect arbiter of that if he capitulates.
	Eloise, good coverage.
	Stelios, thank you.
	Theodore Pinox says, the mineral rights deal was a clever move from America's perspective, allowing it to recoup the money it gave to the Ukraine and dissuade future Russian attacks by creating American interests in the region.
	Yes, I agree.
	That's what I said, yeah.
	I agree.
	It comes with security things.
	With security ties.
	Right.
	Yeah, however, it's also an exploitative and extractative move, turning the Ukraine into an economic vassal and stripping Ukrainian resources for American profit.
	Alex Ogo, I disagree, Stelius.
	It was a good idea to televise the Trump-Zelensky meeting, at least that part of it.
	It clearly showed the world the disrespect Zelensky was...
	I know from talking with my parents over the weekend that the meeting is being misreported in the lying media, but Trump is all about openness and honesty, and that meeting showed off exactly who Zelensky is.
	Alpha of the beaters, the signing of this deal was supposed to be in Ukraine.
	Zelensky backed out and said he'd sign it in Munich.
	In Munich, he backed out and said he would sign it in the White House.
	In the White House, he clearly didn't want to sign it, and then after engineering a blow-up with a Trump admin.
	Andrew Nayrog also agreed with Stelius.
	The suit argument is stupid, even more so when you take a good look at Elon Musk at every White House meeting he has attended.
	Zelensky has plenty of better things to criticise than his choice of outfit.
	Yep.
	Shall we go to the second one?
	Sure.
	Captain Charlie the Eagle.
	I find all the accusations of the GOP being Nazis and Roman salutes to be hilarious.
	I mean, I don't remember the Nazis being so diverse.
	That is true.
	Furious Dan says, as fun as it is to take the piss out of the pearl-clutching left, our allies should refrain from unforced optics errors.
	That is true.
	It is a sort of optics error, in my opinion.
	I think that they should be a bit more sensible.
	It's kind of dumb.
	I remember first seeing the Elon one, and I'm just like, Elon, I know why you've done this, because you can't contain yourself.
	I know you don't mean it maliciously, but I was just like, come on, man.
	Be a bit more sensible.
	Charles Francis says, if we want to be relevant, we need to act responsibly.
	Yes.
	Drink responsibly.
	I don't advocate for that, I'm afraid.
	Dan Taylor says, Tim Waltz did the same salute whilst running with Kamala Harris months before Elon did this.
	I know.
	I showed it.
	You probably commented that before I did.
	Russian Garbage Human says, pretty girls are throwing the salute on social media and you're blackbilling.
	She's not pretty.
	Never mind.
	Carry on, Stelios.
	Right, and we have here, David Ward says, rehouse the young people in the country they came from.
	A sensible suggestion.
	Send them back to Africa.
	Furious Dan, we can all agree that the French theatre experiment is successful and we should repeat it 10,000 times.
	Imagine the GDP. And we have...
	I think that's everything.
	Okay, well, thank you very much for watching.
	I have managed to stay here without coughing my guts up, so that's a good thing.
	Same time tomorrow, as always.

▲