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Feb. 28, 2025 - The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters

01:27:49

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #1111

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	Good afternoon folks, welcome to the podcast of the Lotus Eaters for Friday the 28th of February 2025. I'm joined by Stelios and Harry, and today we're going to be talking about how the Epstein files have been released.
	Or phase one.
	Yeah, very strange that they have to be released in phases, aren't they?
	Yeah, very sus.
	How Andrew Tate is actually not a conservative icon, and we have spoken about this before, but it keeps coming up.
	And how we are ending some good news this week.
	How we're winning the battle for English identity.
	And how the libs are in disarray and routed.
	Owens Jones, Welsh confirmed.
	He's never going to recover from this one.
	His name is Owens Jones.
	Tiny gay Welshman.
	No recovery.
	Anyway, so without further ado, let's get into it.
	Yeah, so the Epstein files are being released in phases.
	I believe that the reason for the phases, outside of pure publicity reasons, might be because of the fact that they're taking time to gather all of them from the FBI and then release them as they have hold of them.
	A lot of people have been very suspicious as to why they can't just all be gathered at once and then released to the public at once.
	But honestly, the whole thing is a circus show thus far and a disaster.
	And I think that...
	It's being done for a very intentional reason, which I will get into in a moment.
	But first, we have the new Islander out, Islander Issue 3. It will be available for a limited time through the website for the low, low price of $14.99.
	As always, wonderfully presented with lots of fantastic imagery through here.
	Brilliant articles by Carl, Morgoth, Alexander Adams, and a few new contributors as well.
	Well worth your time to have a limited piece.
	of Lotus Eaters and Islander merchandise right here that you can go back to again and again and again and get infinite value out of so please if you want to support us order that on the website right now anyway moving on at the moment so what we know right now is that phase one has released a load of these Jeffrey Epstein files and you can go on to the American government website and see the press report that they've put here they've said that They
	said it was phase one, but it looks more like phase zero.
	Yeah, this is nothing.
	This is nothing whatsoever.
	So what you have here...
	Is an itemized evidence list, which is of no use to many people.
	All of the flight logs that we already had.
	A redacted contact book, which we already have unredacted.
	Yeah, the unredacted one was leaked to, like, wherever.
	Yeah, and a redacted masseuse list, which is 250 names, completely redacted for the purposes of the fact that these masseuses were the victims.
	Yeah.
	So that's completely understandable.
	But we have got absolutely nothing of any value right now.
	And one of the most bizarre things to come out of this is this, right?
	So the GOP House Judiciary Committee, led by Jim Jordan, posted a link to the Epstein files, a tiny URL.
	And when you clicked on it, you got this.
	Right?
	music Oh, we are.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Why?
	Is that funny, is it?
	Is that funny?
	Is this something that the GOP House Judiciary Committee should be doing in something like the Epstein files?
	Something that not only is a serious crime in and of itself, but has ridiculously far-ranging implications to the intelligence agencies, who Jeffrey Epstein was working for, what purpose he was using it for.
	Who is he trafficking the goddamn girls to?
	Who is he trafficking the girls to?
	What influence was he trying to buy through having this blackmail material on these people?
	And again, very, very important.
	Who was he doing it all for?
	Because looking into Jeffrey Epstein himself, I know I've been listening to a little bit of the Martha Maid podcast because he's got a five and a half hour series on Jeffrey Epstein.
	I wasn't able to listen to all of it, but from the information that I know, Jeffrey Epstein and his origins...
	Are incredibly mysterious.
	He's just a college dropout.
	He's a maths teacher.
	And then all of a sudden he manages to wrangle himself into being a financial advisor and manager of funds for Les Wexner over the course of one or two meetings, after which he's given the entire control of this man's finances, and five years later is given some kind of contractual agreement that means he can sign anything on behalf of this man at any time.
	It's absurd that this man comes out of nowhere, has all of this influence, is able to do all of these terrible things, is repeatedly brought up for it, and then in 2013, I think it was, when he was originally brought to court over this, is given a very, very easy deal where he only serves 15 months.
	Where did this man come from?
	How did he amass this influence?
	Why did he amass this influence?
	For whom was he given?
	These are all questions that we want answered, but the new story, because of how much of a disaster this entire rollout has been, will be revolving around purely the struggle to get the files released, and then I imagine we'll get the files released eventually.
	They will be incredibly heavily redacted and give us nothing that we don't already have.
	I don't think that we're going to find out anything.
	No.
	And the whole thing was a circus, especially what they did here, because they treated a really important scandal like gossip.
	This is literally low-level gossip.
	I'm phoning you.
	I'm telling you, Harry, I have news for you.
	I'm going to tell you.
	I'm trying to make you wait for it.
	Build anticipation and never actually lead anywhere.
	It's a joke without a punchline.
	Yes, and I'm really happy that there was backlash.
	They have deleted it, yeah.
	That's at least a good thing.
	Why would you treat this like a joke?
	Yes.
	We want people arrested.
	I can only assume, and this is speculation on my part, that a lot of the people who might be tied up in all of this are the same people who are now being tasked with looking into it and releasing it.
	Obviously not necessarily Trump's immediate appointees, I would hope so, but I mean, we don't know.
	That's the problem, is that we don't know.
	And it's going to stay that way.
	It kind of implicates the loss of them, right?
	It's an elite paedophile network that was trafficking girls to be abused in order to get compromise on people at the highest positions of power.
	This means our civilization...
	It's Mafia tactics.
	That's what the Mafia used to do.
	And what did the Mafia get out of it?
	Well, they got bad stuff on J. Edgar Hoover, who then went around saying, oh no, there's no organized crime in America, because that's why you get it, so that they'll leave you alone.
	Yeah.
	We don't want a civilization run that way, and it's not just in America.
	It's going to be everywhere that these people were operating.
	So this is really important.
	This definitely spans international boundaries.
	Absolutely.
	And aside from the fact that...
	You know, what we're doing is allowing a bunch of child abusers to control our civilisations.
	Like, we don't want these people getting off, either.
	So this being so flippant is just disgusting.
	And something else that came across very flippant was the strange decision to allow a load of social media influencers like libs of TikTok here and Mike Chernovich to have a nice little...
	DC Drano, I think that gentleman is, to have a nice little photo up holding these binders that say Epstein files phase one on the front of...
	As if it's something important, as if they were going to do the same thing with this that they did with the Twitter files, where Elon Musk was going to just give it to a load of...
	Well, I mean, to be fair, the people...
	The files were revelatory.
	They were actually interesting.
	And he gave it to journalists rather than social media influencers.
	And in these files themselves are, again, nothing that we didn't already have.
	And as far as I know, these guys didn't even know what was in there.
	In the first place.
	So these guys were brought along to act as part of the media circus purely to be, what, publicly humiliated because they looked like fools?
	I don't know, like, this is strange.
	This is a very peculiar thing because there's no reason that they, I mean, it's fine to give them to social media influencers, right?
	That's okay.
	But why aren't there arrests?
	Like, we want names of the people who are involved in the child sex trafficking rings who have been using...
	The abuse of children for political influence.
	Ghislaine Maxwell is the only person who is actually properly charged for this, and she's currently in jail for trafficking children to no one.
	We know these people are out there.
	We know there's a network.
	Why aren't you just tearing them all up and putting them all in jail?
	It's a good question.
	It's a really bizarre thing.
	And again...
	The people who got these files, they're just going on the social media like, ooh, look at me, I've got these files, we're gonna get it soon, we're gonna get the information out to you that you already know, that's gonna be redacted, that you already had that was unredacted, because the FBI and other various people leaked a lot of this information ages ago.
	So, what, these people are just gonna get a few likes off of it?
	Get their Twitter updutes?
	Engagement forming.
	Yeah.
	Very, very strange.
	And again, of the information that we have, so this account Swig is the only one who seems to have actually released any photos of what they were able to find in these files in the first place.
	And then you've got people just going, well, here's what you've posted.
	Here's what we already had.
	Yeah.
	Because his entire book was leaked.
	Yeah.
	I covered this in a video six years ago.
	We know all of this stuff.
	None of this is new.
	It's just a bunch of court transcripts that we already had.
	It's bizarre, and apparently the story is that these influencers were all just invited to the White House for an unrelated purpose.
	About two hours into the meeting that they attended, they received binders and then were summoned to the Oval Office to meet Trump.
	They left the binders behind but grabbed them before heading out, and as they got out, a swarm of cameras greeted them, which is where we get these press photos from now.
	I don't know.
	How true this story is.
	But if it is true, then these people have all been fooled and made to look a bit like fools.
	And if this is untrue, I mean, it doesn't matter what the truth of the matter is.
	The whole thing is stupid and slapdash and a pure distraction.
	And of the other information that people are saying, you know, like Ian Miles Chong revealing the amazing revelation.
	Oh, he was an FBI informant.
	In Ian's defence, he's not saying this is an amazing revelation.
	He's at least just saying, look, this is what happened.
	We know.
	We know, but it's one of many, many connections to intelligence agencies, domestic and international, that he has that means, of course the people giving us this information aren't going to want us to actually have the information that they've got.
	I thought Kash Patel was just going to go in like a wrecking ball and destroy them all.
	Pam Bondi was like, yeah, it's on my desk, we're getting out.
	Why are you doing this?
	If you are interested in learning about the Jeffrey Epstein stuff, the FBI has already, through Freedom of Information Acts that you can find on their Vault webpage, released lots and lots of documents about Jeffrey Epstein.
	Again, heavily redacted.
	There's nothing interesting in them.
	There's not that much interesting in them, but we already have loads of redacted information about Jeffrey Epstein, which has led to no arrests.
	Yeah.
	So, this is just another part of the cycle of the Jeffrey Epstein story where it's basically turned into a gigantic conspiracy theory where nobody can say anything specific or anything that is confirmed because, well, we're all just left in the dark.
	And the news cycle just carries on with the, will they be able to get the information out there?
	Will they be able to get the files?
	Whereas the people who are actually criminals, who have done wrong, get to carry on.
	They just get to carry on.
	This is what they're going to do.
	They're going to constantly say the battle to drain the swamp is going to be an everlasting battle and it's a battle that is never won entirely.
	I think this has been really poorly handled.
	Very, very, very badly handled.
	And also from a media perspective, it doesn't communicate any kind of strength or will to actually solve everything.
	It's a disaster.
	Wasn't the FBI just summoned into existence via executive order?
	I believe so.
	Was it under FDR that the FBI was summoned into existence?
	It was probably part of some kind of New Deal scheme to steal all of the gold from Americans?
	Because they did nick all of your gold in the 1930s America.
	So, I mean, I would...
	I've not got any fear about being in these books, so I would just dissolve the FBI and take it or publish it.
	But what do I know, you know?
	Well, you don't have a loaded gun to your head.
	No, I don't, yeah.
	Also, unlike many of these people, you probably don't have any compromising files on you held by these people, so of course you're going to say, well, just dissolve the whole thing.
	So the latest information now is that Pam Bondi has accused the FBI of withholding thousands of pages of Jeffrey Epstein documents as the US Attorney General.
	Remember, Kash Patel's been on podcasts saying, yeah, I've seen the unredacted Jeffrey Epstein files.
	They're brutal.
	It's like, okay, now you're in charge.
	You're the guy who can pull the trigger on it.
	Yep.
	What are we waiting for here?
	So the FBI, according to this latest update on this page, now has just one hour, just one hour to hand over thousands of pages if they've not already potentially destroyed some of them.
	Or what?
	Yeah.
	Or what happens?
	I don't know.
	Why is there a deadline?
	Yeah, and lots of people are also annoyed.
	Yeah, you get this.
	You're going to get entire pages of just blacked out lines.
	Swalwell, the guy who sleeps with Chinese spies, is dunking on you.
	Yeah, again, this does not make you seem like a serious administration if this is what is going on, but it was completely unsurprising to me.
	And to many people that this is what was going to happen because of the vested interests behind Epstein in the first place, who he was working for, who he was doing it with.
	And now this is going to be a lot of conspiratorial talk for just a moment, and a lot of it is going to be circumstantial, but the fact is this is the best idea we have as to why Epstein was able to get into the position of power that he was in the first place, and that is that he was an intelligence asset.
	I mean, look at this.
	Back in, yeah, it was 2007, not 2013. Apologies.
	So, back in 2007, Alexander Acosta, who was the former US attorney in Miami, cut Jeffrey Epstein a 15-month plea deal for child sex offences.
	And he said, after the fact that he was told that Epstein belonged to intelligence.
	If I recall correctly, Epstein was only in jail.
	I think he was under house arrest.
	So...
	Double-check me on that, but I'm pretty sure...
	Hardly a punishment for what they already had on it.
	I'm pretty sure he was confined to his Florida mansion with his swimming pool.
	I know.
	Completely terrible.
	And the question then is, which intelligence?
	But that's a very big question, and in all likelihood, most of them.
	Yeah.
	Because they all work together, but one of the ones that people think is most likely for being maybe the top of the hierarchy of the ones that he was answering to was potentially...
	Israel's intelligence service Mossad.
	And that's because of many connections he had.
	For instance Ghislaine Maxwell was the daughter of Robert Maxwell.
	And if I scroll down, and this is just his Wikipedia page, so this is very, very public information which has been confirmed many times.
	They're books.
	It's completely uncontroversial to say that he was a Mossad agent.
	He had known links to the British Secret Intelligence Service, the MI6, to the Soviet KGB, and to the Israel Intelligence Service, Mossad.
	Six serving and former heads of Israeli intelligence services attended his funeral in Israel, while Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir eulogized him and stated he has done more for Israel than can today.
	Be told.
	And his death itself is deeply suspicious.
	Oh, he just fell off his boat one day.
	Yeah.
	Just fell off his boat, bro.
	Don't worry about it.
	So, I think when people are talking about him as just an intelligence asset or an informant, it's really downplaying it.
	Yeah, well, he was an agent.
	We're not talking about someone who is in a low-profile position and who is being asked by an intelligence service, you know, what do you think about the guy who works next to you?
	We're talking about someone who regularly met very high-profile people.
	Yes, very, very powerful people.
	Some of the most powerful people in the world.
	And then there's also the fact that obviously this is, you could say, hearsay, but there's the fact that...
	I mean, apparently he said he was a Mossad agent himself.
	Now, of course, he might have been bigging himself up, because this is from the word of a former girlfriend who was in a lawsuit, referred only to as Jane Doe 200. She stated that he and Ghislaine Maxwell hinted that he was an agent for Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, just like Maxwell's father, Robert.
	For her part, Ghislaine allegedly warned...
	Now, this was a woman who was...
	Sadly raped by Jeffrey Epstein and intimidated, and you could say that, well, maybe he was trying to big himself up so that it sounded as though...
	But the fact is that there are direct connections between Maxwell and him, and a lot of other information.
	And of course, this does not in any way mean that the other intelligence agencies, the CIA, the MI6, anyone that you can think of are innocent of this because they all trade information.
	They all know what's going on with all of the other ones.
	And in all likelihood, if this does go to the intelligence agencies, which is what it sounds like it is, it sounds like they would have all been in on this.
	Because if you're an intelligence agency, why wouldn't you want incredible blackmail material on the president?
	Why wouldn't you want blackmail material on every influential businessman in America or internationally?
	Why wouldn't you want blackmail material on all of Hollywood?
	Why wouldn't you want all of this?
	That's amazing for you because you can do whatever you want.
	there's nothing to disagree with there.
	Yeah, and so that's where we stand at the moment.
	I can imagine that, barring the circumstantial and...
	And other evidence that we have right now, there's not going to be much else coming out of this until maybe Phase 2, if I want to just inhale some nice copium right now, maybe Phase 2 will actually unearth some interesting information that hasn't been destroyed or redacted yet.
	But with where it's going right now, the story is going to be around the circus show of getting a load of random influencers to wave about some binders for it to be just another part of the news cycle that then moves on.
	Whereas we should all be very aware that this is more than just the news cycle.
	These are the people who control your life in many ways.
	Until people are being arrested, then none of it means anything.
	Yeah, exactly.
	So if there's some arrests made, then you know.
	I'll take the bitter pill and say that I was wrong, but until then, I have no reason to believe that I will be.
	I'd love for it.
	Oh, yeah.
	I'd love for it.
	Oh, well, you know, we thought nothing was going to happen, but here's a bunch of people who were on the logs and who got arrested.
	Great.
	You know, wonderful.
	We already knew this.
	anyway so there's some good news to start the day off with eh Neo Unrealist says this is the best thing that's happened in a decade FBI NYC is the heart of the deep state resistance ADIC James Dennehy is in charge James Comey's daughter is in NYC Patel should raid the NY office yeah but why isn't it happening Well, hopefully he does.
	We've got slightly less than an hour now until the 8am deadline is up for them handing over the information.
	Excuse me, if Patel is as much of a pit bull as he's been sold to us as being, hopefully he will do something to raid the NY office, and then hopefully he'll do something to actually give us the unredacted information that will lead to arrests.
	Until then, I am not holding out much hope.
	I don't even need the information.
	I just want you to arrest the people.
	Like, just, you know, it can't be released after the fact.
	I don't care.
	Just arrest the people, for Christ's sake.
	Matt says, Trump needed a pitbull as Attorney General.
	He seems to have got a golden retriever who came from Florida and expects everyone to row in the same direction.
	Well, the thing is, Kash Patel was supposed to be a pitbull.
	They were supposed to all be on the same side in getting this done.
	So what's the hold-up?
	And Trelly says, complete F-up, they should all be fired.
	If it was about the FBI corruption, then a press conference and a raid on the office should have been conducted.
	Not this disrespectful farce agreed.
	Can I pinch the mouse, please?
	Of course.
	Right.
	God, that is just insufferable, isn't it?
	Right, okay, well let's move on to the next insufferable topic we have to talk about before we get something fun, the Andrew Tate question.
	Right, so there are several new developments with respect to the Tate brothers, and they have sparked a conversation with respect to whether people stance towards...
	Andrew Tate and his whatever he represents should be a litmus test for conservatives.
	Long story short, my view is it's absolutely the case that it should be a litmus test.
	And I'm going to be particularly harsh, but I think fair.
	Right.
	But before we say more about this, we have Ireland number three.
	People should definitely check it out.
	It's only £15 a month.
	For one issue?
	For one issue, yeah.
	Not for a month, yeah.
	It's not a subscription.
	Yes, definitely.
	So, Czech Islander number three, by all means.
	Right, so let's go back to the Tate brothers.
	When people talk about the Tate brothers, we need to make a distinction between the legal and the moral case.
	And the moral case has to do also with several questions about cultural influence.
	I'll say right from the beginning, I'm no judge and I'm not going to participate to the kind of influencer culture that says that likes and clout on internet platforms are determining whether someone is legally guilty or innocent.
	I'm not going to do that and I'm going to suspend judgment with respect to whether the allegations against the Tates are...
	Correct or not from a legal standpoint.
	This is a quick thing.
	As I understand it, Romania is no longer charging them with anything.
	No, no, they are charging them.
	Oh, no, I saw a thing this morning that apparently an appeals judge found that the charges weren't sufficient to bring to court.
	So they're just...
	Well, it's an ongoing case.
	Maybe that's the case.
	I read other...
	When's this article from?
	Right, so this is just for people to freshen up their memory with respect to the accusations and rotate it from...
	I can't see it.
	It's from yesterday from Sky News, who is Andrew Tate, the self-styled king of toxic masculinity awaiting trial in Romania.
	You can read it if you want to freshen up your memory with respect to the trafficking charges and the rape charges.
	Right.
	So let's move on.
	So what happened was that they were...
	In Romania, and there were travel restrictions.
	And there have been reports that people from within the Trump administration pressured the Romanian government to allow them to exit the country.
	And Trump denied this.
	If you see here, he says, I don't know anything about it.
	We'll check it out.
	We'll let you know.
	I mean, Trump personally probably is probably going to be in the same way that Biden's administration was run by staffers.
	Trump's is also going to be run by staffers, so it's probably something they've done on their own merits.
	Yes, and it's something that personally I don't think helps Trump's image.
	No, I don't.
	From within his administration.
	Right, so let's move forward.
	I want to talk about a kind of psyops that is being run, or I think is being run, which tries to...
	Portray Andrew Tate as sort of a conservative icon or someone who is within the MAGA camp.
	And I think anyone who considers themselves to be within the MAGA camp should be really frustrated with it because it's treating the MAGA people as idiots.
	Just to confirm what Kyle said as well, this tweet that is being responded to here saying, Andrew and Tristan take a return home to America.
	Romania decided it didn't have the evidence needed to hold them any longer.
	Yeah, that was the report I'd seen.
	Yes, but I think that there have been contrary reports that say that the investigation is ongoing.
	Yeah, it's hard to know because there's such a well of contradictory information.
	Right, and my angle here is not going to be about the legal case.
	My angle is going to be about...
	The reaction of conservatives to Andrew Tate and how it should be handled.
	Right.
	So I think that there is a kind of psyops that is being addressed towards American conservatives especially that tries to link Andrew Tate with Trump as an image.
	That's why they're trying to say the people who go after Trump are the same people who go after Tate.
	The globalists of the Soros Foundation are the real...
	They try to portray Andrew Tate as a Trump-like figure.
	Well, in some ways he is, because they've both got the same enemies, right?
	They're both opposed to the sort of progressive globalist world order.
	Like, yeah, okay, but you don't have to be the same person, or the same kind of person.
	That is too thin, though.
	Personally, I don't see Andrew Tate as a figure of anti-globalization anyway, because of the fact that he has been an outspoken supporter of Islam becoming the dominant religion in the UK. Well, there is always that.
	Yeah, so to me, that's reason enough to not support him.
	We have here Valentina Gomez says, I like Andrew and Tristan Tate.
	Nobody's perfect.
	The most powerful men get BS allegations, just like Trump, Hexer and Conor McGregor.
	They're trying to link Andrew Tate with Trump in the conservative, in the American conservative mind.
	and here we have candace owen saying that for those of us who actually read through their case the restrictions that were placed on the tate brothers in romania were always an act of intergovernmental corruption and she's trying to and i've not read through the case so that could be true yeah i could completely believe it yes Right.
	So we have here the Tampa Bay young Republicans who are trying to portray this as a case of free speech absolutism.
	And I really don't see it as a case of this kind.
	But they're saying here that as free speech absolutists, the Tates haven't been formally convicted of any crimes and are welcome to speak to a group.
	We're old enough to remember when a convicted felon won the presidency.
	So this is actually working to a segment of MAGA.
	Yeah, I think it's worth remembering that lots of young men, their only exposure to anything that's pro-masculine has been Andrew Tate.
	Yes, we are going to talk about that, especially towards the end of the segment.
	Right, so we have here Governor Ron DeSantis, who says Florida does not welcome Andrew and Tristan Tate after they're flying back from Romania.
	And he said that his Attorney General, James Atamaya, is looking into what the state hooks and jurisdictions we have to deal with.
	So basically he said they're not welcome in Florida.
	And he got lots of...
	He got lots of negative reaction towards it by people who were saying they're innocent until proven guilty and they're American citizens and the governor shouldn't speak against them in such a way.
	Right.
	So we have here the Attorney General saying, earlier this morning, I directed my office to work with our state law enforcement partners to conduct a preliminary inquiry into these individuals.
	Florida has zero tolerance for human trafficking and violence against women.
	If any of these alleged crimes trigger Florida jurisdiction, we will hold them accountable.
	Obviously, there's the moral argument, which is, I don't like how Andrew Tate makes his money and the things that he's done, right?
	Sure.
	But I'm also bothered by this.
	He hasn't been convicted of the crime and yet everyone keeps saying it.
	I'm also bothered by that.
	Yes, I'm bothered as well because we need to remember that accusations are necessarily true accusations.
	Anyone can make an accusation about anything.
	People should remember this.
	But I think this plays into directly what I want to say, that this is something that people who have...
	Access to evidence should decide and we can't judge in advance.
	We can't judge from, let's say, just writing on X. It doesn't mean that I have a following and I can just be a judge and declare who is guilty and who is innocent.
	Whether in favor or whether against, it's against a person.
	I think this kind of influencer culture in both camps is not good.
	It's a trial by social media.
	Right, so...
	Candace Owens says, utterly deranged thing for a governor of any state to say, American citizens will not be allowed back on America.
	Soil pair governor on the centers.
	And she says, good thing he is not president.
	Right.
	So here is where I want us to focus on, because there's a particular discussion on whether one stands towards Andrew Tate should be...
	A litmus test for conservatives.
	My view is yes.
	I can give you arguments for it.
	I really want to hear what you think.
	but I'll just show you two, three people and what they've said.
	And say here, Jerry Boring says, the way conservatives and conservative organizations respond to Andrew Tate, arriving on U.S. soil will tell you everything you need to know about them.
	Any organization or host who embraces him is engaged in far worse than simple grift, though it is that.
	And Andrew Tate is the enemy of any traditional American conservatism.
	So that's one view.
	Mm-hmm.
	I think it's important to bear in mind that Again, the moral and the legal case are distinct.
	When we're talking about the legal case, I can't pronounce judgment.
	But I think that when it comes to the moral case, I tend to agree with this view.
	I think we need to lay out, beyond all of the allegations of what happened in Romania, why exactly...
	What of his behaviour, what of his past, what of how he made his money is it that means that he should not be a conservative icon or influencer for people?
	Now, for me...
	From what I know, because there are lots of videos of him saying as much, he made his money primarily through tricking young girls into thinking that they would be his girlfriends and then through series of manipulations would convince them to act as camgirls for him and he would make money from the camgirl business and sometimes message these men that they were entertaining himself to try and extract more money from them.
	So he was both exploiting women in a very Very, very sleazy way, and also lonely men, and now he has tried to rebrand himself as some kind of right-wing counterculture icon rebel.
	And the fact that he's not called out more for that...
	It's pretty bad, if you ask me, because again, whether or not what he did was legal, whether or not there's any truth to the allegations from Romania, there are videos of him and his brother explaining that that is exactly what they did, and that's a really bad way to make a business.
	Also, when you're a conservative, one of the things that are first in your mind is resistance to moral decay.
	The behavior Harry described for me is just...
	The epitome of moral corruption.
	It's scummy.
	It's scummy, yes.
	And it shows, it doesn't show any kind of reaction to hedonistic, materialistic culture that you can say, you can make a good argument.
	So the way that I've always looked at Andrew Tate is the source of decay.
	He's the kind of the epitome of the paradigm we're in, right?
	So yeah, be as loose as you can, be as immoral as you can, Make as much money as you can.
	And that's the neoliberal, liberated, sexually free world order we live in.
	And so I view Andrew Tate as a kind of inevitability.
	If you're like, no, it's totally fine to be as sexual and whatever as possible and to make as much money as possible.
	Someone's going to marry these things together and do this.
	The fact that we allow this, it makes an Andrew Tate inevitable.
	So obviously I'm not...
	Saying he's conservative or anything like that.
	But it's just like, this is the kind of man you create in an order like that.
	That's what success looks like in that kind of order.
	That's where wealth and fame and status go in this kind of world.
	And it's like, okay, well, you know, is there any reason to get angry at Tate for that?
	I mean, don't get me wrong, like I said, I haven't got any personal like or dislike for him, but like, you know, this is what happens when you have liberalism and rampant.
	Well, I don't know if I'd put it in that way, but one of the things that he is doing regularly with his rhetoric is that he's objectifying people.
	Sure.
	And I think that this is just fundamentally unethical.
	So it's not just a litmus test for being a conservative.
	I'd say it's just a litmus test for common human decency.
	Sure.
	The way I see it.
	Hang on, Adam.
	But the thing is, we know that there are people in the world who don't care about common human decency.
	Yeah.
	Just interested in getting ahead.
	The question I have is, why do we make it so accessible for them?
	Well, that's definitely...
	Like, everywhere, all the time, you know?
	Why is it in all the music videos?
	Why is it everywhere?
	Like, we've created a culture that completely endorses everything Tate has done, and then we stand around and go, well, I mean, he shouldn't have done that.
	It's like...
	But we're all parties.
	Maybe this is just me.
	For me, the worst part of it is the oversaturation of all of that culture that you've just said has just made it all so boring.
	It's made it all so dull.
	That's the worst way of escaping it, isn't it?
	It's all so normal now.
	Just imagine how many young men and women have been perverted by modern culture.
	And essentially, it feels like Andrew Tate's like...
	They want to use them as a bit of a scapegoat for this.
	How could you have done this in this culture that we all live in and completely endorsed by our actions all day every day?
	Well, so would you say that in this case people who hide behind legalisms are evading the really important question here?
	Well, it depends.
	What do you mean the important question?
	No, okay, so my view here is that a lot of the people who are trying to stress the legal case and say innocent...
	Yeah, but I'm not stressing the legal case.
	No, no, I'm not saying you're doing, but I just want to say that a lot of people who are trying to sell him to a conservative audience, they're trying to sell him to the MAGA base, they are evading this fundamental moral issue here.
	They're trying to...
	It goes deep in that.
	So look, the young Republicans in Florida aren't conservatives, right?
	This is the thing.
	You're a conservative.
	Jeremy Boring is a conservative because they look at the things Andrew Tate has done and say, well, I don't think that's moral.
	The young Republicans don't do that.
	So they're not conservatives.
	They are something that has been made that is downstream of the excessive liberal culture in which we live.
	And so, like you were saying, oh, porn's boring.
	Great, but porn shouldn't be boring.
	Porn should be forbidden.
	No, no, no.
	I mean, the pervasive sexuality of culture makes sex in and of itself boring and dull and normal.
	Whereas it should be exciting and thrilling and mysterious.
	I agree, right?
	You should see the ankle and get a little bit of a heart race going.
	I agree.
	But this is the point.
	So the young Republicans are on the other side of this compared to people who have not...
	I spent their entire childhood saturated in what was just a pornographic culture, right?
	So they don't see Andrew Tate as being someone who has violated a bunch of moral boundaries because they are the product of a pervasive pornographic culture.
	They're just like, well, he's just done normal things.
	He hasn't broken any laws.
	Therefore, why would I morally condemn him?
	And so it's not really about Andrew Tate.
	It's really a commentary on...
	Everyone else.
	Well, frankly, and this is not to say anything to condone anything that he has done or said, especially if it does turn out that, yeah, he has committed the crimes he's accused of.
	As far as our prevailing culture goes, and from a leftist perspective, in terms of promoting hedonism and overt sexuality, his real crime is having done so while being rude, boorish, and a gross man about it.
	If he'd been an affirming ally while running his cam girl business, the left would have taken him on with open arms.
	And I think it's the overwhelmingly masculine way that he presents himself and his businesses which makes it so that he is appealing to young men who see an entire culture that hates them.
	And just a quick thing as well.
	Like, the Cardi B WAP thing is just such a good example to this.
	Because, okay, yeah, Andrew Tate, like, essentially lied and coerced, maybe, or, you know, manipulated a bunch of young women to objectify themselves to make money out of men.
	Okay, but that's literally all of the music industry.
	That's literally all of it.
	That's Diddy.
	Yeah, that's Diddy, that's WAP, that's that entire, like, it's taking young women and young men.
	And sexualizing them in ways that I don't think they fully understand to millions of people to make money off of them, it's exactly the same thing.
	And I think you're exactly right.
	The only thing Andrew Tate has done wrong from the paradigm's point of view is that he's done it in a misogynistic way rather than a way that hides behind the rhetoric of feminism.
	But yeah, that's straightforward hypocrisy.
	It's not even about the hypocrisy.
	It's kind of just revealing how disgusting our culture is.
	Right, so I want to share something Oren McIntyre wrote, who I had the pleasure of conversing with on his show.
	He says, Andrew Tate is terrible, but turning him into some form of litmus test is a mistake and plays directly into his hands.
	Tate only exists because American conservatives have failed so thoroughly.
	At speaking to young men and portraying masculinity in a positive light.
	So I did a daily video today and I said exactly that.
	I didn't see Aaron's tweet but I said exactly that.
	But the fact that Andrew Tate exists as a symbol for men is a failure of modern culture.
	Right, so I want to say that I fundamentally agree with the latter point, but I don't think that this implies that there is a kind of dilemma.
	You can say, I can condemn, but also try to understand why.
	It's the same thing with, let's say, evil in general.
	You can try to understand the temptations of evil while also condemning.
	Condemning evil and treating it as a litmus test.
	So I agree that a lot of people hide behind a sort of rejection of the message of Andrew Tate and say, no, no, it's disgusting, full stop.
	And they don't do the extra work of trying to understand why it appeals to people.
	And essentially, I think that it's not particularly difficult to understand why it appeals to people.
	It's, first of all...
	Young people always being sort of attracted to views that are a bit more, you could say, more focused on appearance and appear more energetic.
	But also it's just reaction to a feminized culture.
	Young men are constantly told to be, are constantly emasculated.
	Yes.
	But this is the problem.
	I think Aaron is right that it's playing into his hands here, right?
	If you make Andrew Tate the totem, the thing upon which the entire thing pivots, well, not only do you center him in the discourse about what is actually a much wider issue about society generally, but you essentially scapegoat him.
	Hang on, what we're saying is look at how bad Andrew Tate is.
	If we condemn him, we need to do no further moral introspection, which is the entire purpose of the scapegoat.
	And actually, no, I don't feel the need to morally judge Andrew Tate because...
	From what ground would wider society have that?
	I can say personally, I think that's a disgusting thing to do.
	Sure, but I've still listened to the radio, which has WAP playing 24-7 or some equivalent of...
	You listen to the radio?
	Or when you're in the car or whatever.
	When I walk into a shop, I can hear that song play.
	You need to exercise your authority in the car more.
	But when I walk into a shop, I can hear that song playing on the speakers and stuff like this.
	And it's just insane.
	And it's been this way...
	For my entire adult life.
	Well...
	So it's going, oh, Andrew Tate, Andrew Tate.
	Andrew Tate is not actually the subject of the conversation here.
	Yes, but I would say that the common denominator here is a culture which, in various manifestations, it objectifies people.
	And Tate is one manifestation right now.
	The songs you mentioned, everyone is N's and B's.
	Yeah, it's also as well.
	So I think Aaron's right about, like, look, you're making him too important.
	And to put my own perspective on what he's saying at the end there, portraying masculinity in a positive light, if I were a younger man, where culture basically just wants...
	Old man hair.
	I'm an old man now, I'm an old Zoomer.
	Where basically society has been telling you for your entire life that your ideal figure is the gay best friend.
	Yeah, no, that's terrible.
	That's what you need to be.
	You need to be the gay best friend.
	What does Andrew Tate, despite all of his flaws...
	Present himself as being a cool, doesn't give an F guy who has fast cars and has muscles and does whatever he wants and is rich.
	What are you going to want to be?
	You want to be the gay best friend or you want to be that?
	You're going to go, well, any day.
	Give me cars, give me muscles, give me women.
	If being degenerate is the way to get that, they'll do it.
	But the point is that it's not an either-or.
	I know.
	And it's an issue of finding good role models for young people.
	And fundamentally, I think, it's not an issue of just finding one role model and say, okay, look, it's not Tate, it's just another one.
	It has to be all over the place.
	Exactly.
	The problem is, all over the place is hyper-feminized, hyper-sexualized, utterly degenerate culture.
	Well, yeah.
	And I think we should point it out.
	And if we care about it, we should say that...
	I'll say it.
	I'll say it.
	Yeah, but like...
	Pointing out, like, everyone can see it.
	They don't need it pointed out to them.
	Well, yeah, but the point is that these people who are saying don't give oxygen, they don't seem to be doing anything about it.
	Yeah, but it's everywhere.
	It's promoted.
	It's something that would have to have, like, essentially state intervention against, which obviously is something we can't do.
	So, you know.
	And I'll just end with a final point that there are some people who say that there shouldn't be litmus tests, but there are always litmus tests.
	There are always people who are trying to judge and discern between, let's say, the actual and the apparent people within a particular camp.
	And I think that this is how it always has been.
	And to a degree, it's good.
	And there are a lot of people who...
	It's not an issue of whether litmus tests are going to be used, but which litmus tests are going to be used.
	Some people are saying, for instance, if you disagree with the Trump administration, you're no true conservative.
	I think that's a wrong litmus test.
	That's silly.
	That's silly.
	Okay.
	Scott says, this is something that drives me nuts.
	As pointed out by Harry, you can literally find videos of him describing what he did and what he's accused of.
	And to top it off, he just ran a crypto scam on his fans.
	They're all running crypto scams on their fans recently.
	Also, yeah, it's not just that they're videos.
	I don't know how.
	He had like an online course to teach you to do it as well.
	Yeah, he was like, did you want to manipulate women who think that they're your girlfriend into being a porn star for you?
	Sign up for my course.
	That's going to get clicked now.
	Literally just become someone who produces music videos and then you're doing the same job.
	Pretty much.
	I'm so tired of Andrew Tate being the very centre of the discourse.
	It's actually not really about him.
	Anyway, let's move on.
	Something a bit more jolly, because it's nice to have some wins.
	So, recently in England, there has been a giant battle over the concept of English identity.
	And this manifested recently because Constantine Kissin and Fraser Nelson of The Spectator had a discussion about Rishi Sunak.
	Is he an Englishman?
	And you've got posts like this.
	I don't think I've ever seen a politician looking more English than this, to be quite honest.
	Now, in a way, there is something...
	About that, I can understand what he's saying, right?
	So he's dressed as an Englishman in the traditional English garb of a suit, and he's standing in the rain getting wet, and this was when he was announcing his resignation from the position of Prime Minister that no one voted him in for.
	And yeah, there is a kind of Englishness about this, that's true, but it is an aesthetic.
	I hate this.
	I hate this attitude.
	I hate this image.
	I hate this idea that Rishi Sunak somehow looks English.
	There was, like last year, a push to try and get people to say that his face was a bit English and the way he held himself was English.
	I mean, he's right.
	That doesn't matter.
	Exactly, it doesn't matter.
	That doesn't matter.
	I could put a dress and makeup on.
	I'm not a woman, even if I learn to hold myself in like a feminine way or something.
	Jose Parker screeching across the room.
	Well, no, she would agree with me.
	It wouldn't make me a woman, right?
	So the idea that it's a skin suit identity that you can just take on by affecting the mannerisms.
	And besides, I don't think this is what Englishness is about, right?
	And if it is, that's sad.
	Yeah, Englishness is not about just being in the rain and looking a bit sad, okay?
	That's an insult.
	It's a common feature of Englishness.
	That's an insult to our national identity.
	Englishness is innovation.
	It's restlessness.
	It's looking at the edges of the map and saying what goes beyond.
	It's going into foreign cultures and seducing the women.
	That's what Englishness is about, alright?
	It's nothing different.
	It's action and adventure.
	We've got culture.
	We're not just sad twats in suits, alright?
	Except for right now.
	It's very similar to when Justin Trudeau goes over to India and he dresses up as an Indian.
	You can say, oh, I've never seen anyone looking more Indian than this.
	They're wearing the trappings of the culture.
	So yeah, they look like they're from the culture, but...
	There's a reason, for example, that India was thrilled with Rishi Sunak being the Prime Minister.
	And this is just, like, you've just got these...
	I mean, this is the sort of thing, like, ex-India company set to run Britain.
	Oh, really?
	Why were they so bothered that an Englishman was becoming the Prime Minister of Britain?
	Why were they so excited?
	Why were they celebrating?
	Why were there so many clips from Indians saying, oh, Empire Strikes Back?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	No, it's literally this entire article is just them talking about, like, how...
	Indian press.
	We're going wild because an Englishman took over as Prime Minister in England.
	And the answer is, of course, no.
	Because they know he's an Indian.
	They recognize him as an Indian.
	He knows he's Indian.
	He knows he's Indian.
	That's why he celebrates Dilwali in number 10. His name is Sunak.
	Like, it's fine for us to say, look, Rishi Sunak is an Indian man who was born and raised in England, which is why he is...
	Wearing the trappings of English culture, but he personally identifies himself as an Indian, and he knows he's an Indian.
	Indians know he's an Indian.
	We know he's an Indian.
	That's fine.
	Where's the controversy in that?
	Except for liberals and globalists who want to deracinate people by separating them from their cultural identity and heritage.
	Not every people.
	Yeah, not every people.
	Palestinians are certainly Palestinian in you're not one, Mr. Israeli.
	Yeah, exactly.
	There's a very hard boundary there.
	I find all this discussion ridiculous.
	I'm sure you do.
	I'll let you do yours.
	Unfortunately, we are having a massive identity crisis in England.
	I don't imagine the Greeks have much of an identity crisis, do they?
	I wouldn't say so.
	Doesn't mean you've got the Turks right there.
	We're desperately trying to...
	It's not just that.
	I mean, it's so easy to think about it.
	There's the ethnic dimension.
	There's the cultural dimension.
	There's the civic dimension.
	Historical inheritance dimension.
	Yeah, so where's the problem?
	And we should be exactly in the same position as the Greeks, actually.
	You know, we've got, like, a long and impressive heritage.
	Why are we even having this conversation?
	Well, the answer is, of course...
	Shit-libs.
	So this is the New Statesman.
	I just want to read a quick quote from this.
	I mean, look at the title.
	Of course Rishi Sunak is English.
	In his comments...
	Just look at all his Anglo-Saxon heritage and ancestry.
	Oh, wait.
	Just look at how Indy was celebrating.
	In his comments on English identity, Constantin Kissin was giving a voice to racial essentialism, which is dangerously prominent on the right.
	So...
	Fnat Constantin Kissin has entered the chat.
	Yeah, no, it's a woke-right Constantin.
	As...
	But he's not wrong, right?
	Constance was like, he's a brown Hindu, which is a totally true statement.
	It's just pointing out the obvious.
	Yes, and this kind of biological, or as they put it, racial essentialism, well, unfortunately, and I hate to tell you this, but we are corporeal beings who reproduce through, literally, relationships that produce children.
	So, through heredity, right?
	So, that means that we exist in the real world.
	First, before we are our identities.
	Well, it's so weird because they treat the lib you mentioned, they treat the character of Englishness as just a card that you give to people so they feel included.
	But in doing so, they're, for instance, offending the other identities.
	So what's the problem with saying that, for instance, Rishi Sunak comes from India?
	Can I become a Greek man?
	Depends what you mean.
	Can I become a Greek man?
	Let's discuss it.
	Neither of my parents...
	Are you going to give me a raise?
	Is that all I need, is it?
	Spelius has a few trials and they just involve giving him a lot of money.
	Well, I mean, you can't become ethnically Greek.
	Of course not.
	I can't become ethnically English.
	Of course not.
	It's a matter of fact.
	We could talk about cultural continuities.
	Yeah, sure.
	I mean, if I were to move to Greece, I'd...
	I'd be very happy to endorse and throw myself into Greek culture.
	But I wouldn't love it.
	I love Slovakia.
	I could never do it.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm terrible with seafood cultures.
	No, no.
	Greek's not seafood culture.
	See, I definitely wouldn't.
	You do have seafood, but Greek has a lot of just pork and chicken and lamb.
	Come on, you can't.
	Fist and chips.
	Come on.
	Anyway, we're getting off topic.
	I have cheese and gravy.
	Getting off topic.
	So, as you can see, this embodies and embifies the entire sort of lib perspective on this, which is how dare you suggest that people exist in the world.
	People are just floating consciousnesses, and if they happen to coincidentally...
	Connect to the same ethnic heritage as their parents, which they all do all the time and have since the dawn of time.
	That is just a coincidence, and you can take nothing from it, and it was just accidental in every single case.
	And so they say this, right?
	They say, nationhoods have always changed, or else they become redundant, and all identities have some notion of exclusivity.
	What does redundant mean in that sense?
	Okay, you've been English, but you've been English for a bit too long, a bit redundant now.
	Be something new.
	Yeah, exactly.
	You can feel the language of modernism in this, right?
	That is the mechanism through which they distinguish one group from another, the notion of exclusivity.
	But if we're at the stage that, despite being born and raised and socialized in England all his life, speaking English as his native tongue, with a cheerfully Waikamist accent, Rishi Sunak isn't English, then...
	We have left even a civic form of nationalism behind.
	And this is an impoverishment of Englishness and a betrayal of the mechanisms by which this country has grown up and grown old.
	The civic conception of Englishness is about 20 minutes old.
	Can I please?
	For all of these kinds of arguments about nationhood changing and all of these different things, while you're born and raised in this particular place, may I always just present Yugoslavia?
	Yeah.
	Yugoslavia, guess what?
	You could have been born and raised in Yugoslavia, but you still belonged to a very specific ethnic group, and the second that the borders fell, holding that whole place together, it erupted into ethnic conflict.
	And that's not necessarily what happens over in the West.
	That's a very, very...
	Balkan approach to conflict resolution.
	But Rishi Senak wouldn't lord his Indian heritage if he didn't have it.
	And it's fine to say he's an Anglicized Indian man, because he's grown up in England, but he knows he's not English, we know he's not English, and this is essentially the lynchpin upon which...
	All of the left-wing, like, globalist lib-thinking hinges.
	And you can see that they've got, well, if we're leaving even that behind, then we're being impoverished.
	Well, then you'd be impoverished, because we're leaving that behind.
	That's just not what it is to be English.
	I think that this is fundamentally an Americanism.
	And I don't say it pejoratively, because...
	In the US, there's a different historical setting that led to the American identity, but European identity is different.
	Let me get to that in a minute.
	In the US, you still have hyphenated Americans.
	The Irish Americans still see themselves as very Irish.
	We'll get to it in a minute, if that's alright.
	So anyway, the point being, this is the flimsy...
	Sort of thread by which the globalist conception of identity is hanging.
	It's just an aesthetic that is born out of nothing for some reason.
	Who knows why the English are those they are?
	But anyone can be English for any reason at any time.
	And you can just identify English, not English, English, not English.
	Just flip between if you want, right?
	That's, as far as they're concerned, how it works.
	Now...
	We've spoken about this on Lads Hour last week, and this was revelatory.
	This was absolutely revelatory.
	So we were looking at the Politics Joe podcast, which is, again, another shitload of podcasts talking about this, and they have this in the top of their mind, and of course the first thing they want to do is call you a racist, but once that's been done, they realize, oh no, we are English, we are the inheritors of a long and ancient and noble tradition, and actually, where's our parliament?
	And things like this, right?
	So actually...
	Even these people are well aware, no, this is an inheritance.
	This is something physical that is in you.
	It is something that you carry with you.
	And it is, as you said, a fact.
	And it's not something you can just change.
	Go and watch that, by the way.
	It was really, really fun.
	And really, again, really eye-opening.
	Once you get past their innate ideological defenses, you get to see what they really think.
	And it's actually really good.
	Anyway, so Sweller Braveman then chimed in recently.
	And it's nice to see that the Westminster bubble is...
	Downstream of us on this conversation.
	We've been talking about this for probably a year or two now.
	And this has been important because we've been well aware that actually in England the question of who is English is the most important one.
	And we seem to be winning this battle.
	And so Swallow came on the right side of the issue.
	She says, Great question.
	Surprisingly based for a conservative.
	You don't think, Harry?
	I did a daily video talking about this, but I'm still going to say my defense, first and foremost, is the people of this country from whom the culture and values originate.
	And also, for me, British, I understand because of the empire that we expanded it out, because that's what empires do.
	They expand out identities to be more inclusive to the people that they end up colonizing.
	But still, to me, British means...
	Welsh, Scottish, English.
	So that's just quibbles on my part.
	It's fine, but to be clear, British has two dimensions, a civic and a kind of cultural, yeah, because it's not ethnic, but it has a civic and a cultural dimension.
	The civic dimension is what she's appealing to here, obviously, saying, you know, civically, and she's probably brought up in Britain as well.
	So maybe even culturally.
	But the point is, you are right.
	I mean, you can look back at the sort of spread of the Roman identity, which is really interesting.
	So initially it's literally Rome, then it's Latium, then it's Italy, then it's, you know, I think it was Caracalla who extended it to every free man in the empire, which means everyone in the Mediterranean is a Roman now.
	And so it's just like, and the same thing happened when the empire collapses.
	What a surprise!
	And then you end up with a country called Romania, right?
	And it's, like, nowhere near Italy.
	But we're the real Romans.
	Swear.
	Exactly, right?
	And the same thing is happening with the British identity, where, yeah, okay, it begins in, like, you know, Britain, expands outwards, and now there are lots of people who don't have an ancestral connection to the country who are like, I'm British, right?
	Because it's the way that civic identities work.
	But she's completely right.
	Say, look, I'm not English, obviously.
	And she goes, she expands on this in the article.
	And it goes pretty hard right on Fraser Nelson, actually, which is pretty good, actually, I think.
	She says, And it's true.
	And she's like, look, I don't feel English because I have no generational ties to English soil, no ancestral stories tied to the villages and towns on this land.
	My heritage, with its rich cultural racial identity, is something distinct.
	I'm a British Asian, but I feel a deep love and gratitude, and I feel a deep love and gratitude in order to the country, but I cannot claim to be English, nor should I. This is not exclusionary, it's honest, and it's what living in a multi-ethnic society entails.
	And that's a great start to get us on the road to actually understanding the problem, because I think, as you were saying, This is essentially the Americanization of Europe.
	Because I posted this because this is essentially what it boils down to.
	The Americans are named after a geographic landmass.
	Someone called Amaringo or something like that.
	Was it America Vespucci?
	Oh, I can't remember.
	Who knows, right?
	Who cares, right?
	But the point is, at some point in the 17th century, or 15th century, 16th century, some Spanish explorer discovered a piece of land west of Europe, and it got his name attached to it.
	And then people moved there, and they adopted that landmass's name as their own.
	That's not how it works in Europe.
	That's not how it works in the Old World.
	England is named after the English.
	As in, the people preceded the land and gave their name to the land, not the other way around.
	And so we do not need to say stupid things like Owen Jones is saying.
	For example, oh, if you were born in England or grew up in England, you're an Englishman.
	It's like, no, that's not how that works, actually.
	Because being English was about the people and not the place.
	For example, if we move to, you know...
	Papua New Guinea or something.
	Then we will make that England because we are the English and we will not be Papua New Guineans because we're not Papua New Guineans.
	And the same with the Greeks.
	I mean, the Athenians did this, actually.
	When the Persians invaded, they had to evacuate all of Athens to, what was this?
	Salamis.
	Salamis, that's right.
	They didn't stop being Athenians because they were on the run.
	They were still the Athenians and they will be the Athenians wherever they go.
	And it's the same for us.
	It's not the other way around.
	And so anyway, yeah, you got amazing responses, which, I mean, this was so great.
	Swell Braveman, I'm an Indian, and Owen Jones is just like, don't be ridiculous.
	You're English!
	It's like, no, Owen, you don't get to do that.
	From the team that bought you, you can identify as a woman if you want, is you are definitely this because you were born here.
	And this is the same point that Fraser Nelson has been making and various other people like Christopher Snowden.
	It's like, no, if you...
	Are you saying these footballers who play for England aren't English?
	What, like, Jarrell Kwansar?
	Yeah, I'm saying he's not English.
	Are you saying that economic migrants who are going to come over and play for a team that will pay them the most don't immediately become the nationality that they're playing for?
	Yeah, it's pretty simple.
	Why would I think this guy's English?
	Do you think he thinks he's English?
	Like, what about Angel Gomez?
	Does he think he's English?
	Gomez is a particularly English surname.
	Just as English as you and me.
	Looks English, sounds English, wears his hair in a traditional English style.
	Sorry, this guy isn't English and nobody thinks he's English.
	They're mercenaries who play for our football team because we pay them money.
	That's just how this works.
	Dominic Solanke, the average Englishman, is it?
	Come on, you guys are preposterous.
	And the thing is, you are losing the argument.
	And so then, we start getting the, what are now customary, traditional...
	Attempts to destroy the nature of what the English identity is.
	So, one thing that people don't pick up on is that when ethnicities are combined in describing someone.
	So, for instance, sometimes they say it's an Indian-English person or Indian-British.
	They're not explicit with respect to what they're combining because they could mean, for instance, that...
	Different parents.
	One English parent and one Indian parent.
	Or they could mean, for instance, an English citizen from India.
	And that's something fundamental.
	It's fundamentally ambiguous and it's just ripe for misunderstanding.
	But it's something people could just point out and say that, you know.
	They need to qualify what they mean by it.
	Because postmodern conceptions of these things thrive off of very ambiguous definitions that can be moulded into anything.
	It's not just that.
	In previous eras, we never needed a hard definition of these things either.
	An Englishman still recognised himself as an Englishman.
	No, no, I know.
	But you didn't have to spend a huge amount of time thinking about this, because there wasn't lots of foreign people in England.
	I'm thinking more when we went abroad.
	You had Cecil Rhodes, for instance.
	He damn well knew what an Englishman was.
	Anyway, so let's carry on.
	So Owen Jones was like, why is England called England, Owen?
	And Owen Jones explains why England is called England.
	Because the Angleson, which is an old English word for the Anglo-Saxon tribes, got over the long process of more than a thousand years, The language developed to sound the word English rather than Angleson.
	And so that's literally, yes, we agree we are a collection of Germanic tribes.
	I'm a single ethnicity.
	You're not going to like the answer.
	Oh, and I already knew this.
	Yeah, but that's...
	What's wrong with that answer?
	I already knew that.
	Well, I suggested that he was doing the thing.
	Why?
	The thing that they always do.
	Which is the, well, your ancestors were immigrants who were of European tribes that were basically indistinguishable from the other tribes that were around them.
	Therefore, open your doors to Syria.
	He's trying to unbake the cake.
	It's like, what cake is that?
	Oh, it's not a chocolate cake.
	Why?
	Well, the flour came from this cupboard.
	There's some eggs in there.
	The cream came from the fridge.
	You know, this is not a chocolate cake.
	And it's like, oh, okay then.
	I guess I won't enjoy it.
	You know, what are you doing, Owen?
	There's nothing.
	What's wrong with this answer?
	I really can't imagine Owen Jones reading Tacitus.
	No, of course not.
	To be fair, though, he is, as he revealed in the replies, a subversive Welshman.
	So we can't expect any left.
	I think his name's Owen Jones, so we could have guessed that.
	Anyway, so then he's like, well, Swallow claiming to be English here.
	No, she wasn't claiming to be English here.
	She was being as a...
	A representative, a substantive representative, in the Hannah Pitkin sense, of what this is.
	So he's just flailing.
	He's just desperate, like, no, no, you have to be English.
	It's like, why does she have to be English?
	Why does she have to be English?
	Where does she say that she's English?
	She doesn't.
	He's trying to make it that she says, but she doesn't.
	But why does she have to be?
	It's okay, we don't hate Sweller Braverman because she's not English, Owen.
	We're not going to kick her out of the country because she's not English, which is the thing that you seem to think that everyone's thinking, right?
	And so the thing carried on with Hamza Yusuf.
	Hamza Yusuf?
	And everyone's like, hang on a second.
	Is Hamza Yusuf Scottish?
	And Fraser Nelson's like, no.
	No one...
	Yes, sorry.
	No one would seriously say Hamza Yusuf is not really Scottish.
	It's an inclusive identity.
	According to whom?
	According to Fraser Nelson.
	There are two definitions, ethnic and civic.
	The same is true for Englishness.
	Now, let's stop there.
	There is no civic identity of Englishness.
	England, English, is an ethnic identity.
	There's nothing you can get on a piece of paper that gives you a little certificate.
	You have English civic identity.
	If it's both, ethnic, which is based on heritage and ancestry, and civic, which is based on legal norms, well, then it can't be both at the same time.
	So it's nothing.
	Again, as with all of these kinds of definitional discussions, The end point is to reduce it to nothing, which is what he does in the second sentence, where he says, oh, it's a free country.
	No one's obliged to call themselves.
	Why do you even care, bro?
	Why are we even having this conversation?
	Nothing means anything.
	He literally says, not sure why the battle's still raging.
	Nothing means anything, so why do we care?
	Interestingly, there's no mention of the cultural.
	Yeah, no.
	Maybe he conflates it with civic, which...
	Maybe.
	There's a lot.
	Yeah, it does.
	But then he follows up and goes, oh, hang on a second.
	I should have said that no one using their real name would say Hamza Youssef is not really Scottish.
	And for good reason.
	They'd be embarrassed to defend that position in front of their friends.
	Ethno-nationalism sits ill with the culture of this country.
	Let's have a look at the replies to this, shall we?
	Everybody.
	Everybody.
	Oh, the first one is Bo.
	Bo Dade.
	His real name.
	Hamza Yusuf is not really Scottish Fraser.
	He is a Pakistani man.
	But the thing is, right...
	Bo's profile is perfect for this kind of response as well as picture.
	It is.
	And this kind of ratio as well.
	I threw one out as well.
	Josh threw one in there.
	There's Josh.
	Just shut up, Fraser.
	You know, like, we are quite happy to tell you that, obviously, Hamza Yusuf is not Scottish, and the reason I know...
	And also, I have defended this kind of position in front of friends before, and most of the time, after about five minutes, it's really, really easy to make them go, yeah, you know what, that's fair enough, you're right.
	The thing is, though, the person I would go to to identify whether Hamza Yusuf is Scottish or not is...
	I'm very proud of being the first Scottish Pakistani to become First Minister of Scotland.
	So I am a son of the soil of Pakistan.
	He's a blood and soil nationalist for Pakistan.
	Exactly.
	Exactly, Fraser.
	So this is that evil ethno-nationalism you were talking about, just coming out of the mouth of Hamza Yusuf.
	And this is just your position totally destroyed.
	You have nothing.
	It's funny, again, because you can see how they switch.
	They're rhetoric.
	They switched work.
	Because last year, when the protests and riots were happening, all of a sudden, Humza Youssef was saying on camera, you know, I might move.
	But also, I'm as Scottish as they come.
	Cut me and I bleed Scottish blood.
	And I suggested, you know, well, you don't need to...
	That would be barbaric.
	That would be awful.
	You can just take a 23andMe test and we'll find out just how Scottish you are, Humza.
	But he knows he's not, and that's fine.
	It's okay.
	Well, he knows he's not, but he's willing to say it if it means that he thinks he can get something out of it.
	But this is the point.
	I don't want to live a lie.
	I know Humza Youssef is a Pakistani man.
	He knows this.
	Why is Fraser Nelson committed to this?
	Because they're liars.
	Because Fraser Nelson's an idiot.
	And also because a lot of these establishment journalists and voices...
	Whatever the role is.
	They only have a problem with European ethnicity.
	Yeah, that's a good point.
	They're never trying to deconstruct Indian identity or anything like that.
	But then you get, again, just people like Dan Hodges here.
	He's like, right, okay, I seem to have worked it out, what the right is saying.
	If you're born in England, live in England, identify as English, but are black or brown, you're not English.
	But if you're born outside of England, have never set foot in England, but identify as English and are white, you are.
	And it's like, Dan...
	It's about your heritage.
	You inherit your ethnic identity.
	You can't disinherit it and you can't choose someone else's.
	It is an immutable fact about you and that's your problem with this, isn't it?
	The problem that you have is that it doesn't get to be changed.
	Yes, Dan, we are physical beings who have things happen to us before we're even born and we are given these things and we don't get to change them.
	That's what this is.
	On this point that he's got here, Elon Musk is English, but Rishi Sunak isn't.
	If Elon Musk is honest in saying that the vast majority of his ancestry is English, yeah.
	That's correct.
	And I love, Dan, I'm not entirely sure how to process this stuff anymore, and so I just replied, well, why do dogs give birth to puppies, not kittens?
	You know?
	Like, it's literally, you inherit this from your parents, Dan.
	You know that you're lying.
	You know that you've lost this argument, and they've just retreated to, I can't even possibly begin to understand what anyone is saying.
	Well, nonsense.
	And we can, actually.
	Appeal to stupidity.
	The last resort of the shitlib.
	Yeah, Dan Hodges, well, I'm just too retarded to understand.
	I can't understand, because I've got brain damage, actually.
	Well, if you want to understand, go and get the latest copy of Islander, because in this, I'm discussing exactly that, right?
	So, my, uh...
	My essay is an essay about the Earthstepper, the Wanderer, the old Anglo-Saxon poem.
	Beautifully rendered, isn't it?
	About the dispossession of the English during the Viking invasions.
	And I got a new translation of it, and I've got a nice long essay next to it, describing and explaining what I think is the important thing in it.
	Because this is the question of our time, and I've been hamming this for ages.
	It matters, right?
	This matters.
	We have to be able to self-identify in opposition to other peoples.
	So yeah, go and get this.
	It's only going to be around for like three more weeks or something.
	It won't be reprinted again, and I promise you, you'll miss it if you don't get it.
	So let's go to the video comments.
	In the meantime, Mason says, "Genuine question.
	How long did the Vikings or Normans take to become English?" Roughly four generations of interbreeding possibly need to remove any direct memories of an ethnic relative.
	Hundreds of years, actually.
	Henry V was the first English-speaking king after the Norman Conquest, so 400 years.
	So it takes a long time.
	I mean, in the defense of the Normans, they were the ruling class of a conquered people.
	Whereas the Vikings were just invaders.
	Yeah, and we conquered them.
	So they were forced to assimilate.
	But anyway, let's go to the video comments.
	Your village has changed since before the war.
	I love going back over old TV shows adapting crime novels.
	The adaptations of the 1980s had people who still remembered the times involved, and so they were more reliable, making this scene from Miss Marple's A Murder Is Announced particularly poignant.
	You see, in the old days, everyone knew each other.
	And if someone new came to the village, then they brought letters of introduction.
	They'd either been in the same regiment or the same ship.
	Hmm.
	That does look very cozy.
	Yeah.
	It's literally a country that no longer exists.
	Let's go to the next one.
	Is this the same one or is that the...
	Do we only have one?
	I assume I only have one.
	Omar says, whatever Trump is doing, he's not one state idol.
	I can only hope any nothing burgers are a smokescreen to get more of what he wants for the American people.
	He has four years to seek justice, so allow him a little extra rope to hang his enemies.
	I guess we'll see, but I'm genuinely bothered this is being so mishandled.
	Someone online says, the FBI has long since destroyed the files.
	So this has always been something I've been curious about.
	It's like, why wouldn't the FBI just get rid of them?
	Like, who's gonna say?
	Again, of the files that I expect that we get, I expected them to be, as people are saying, just entire pages of completely redacted information.
	Just black line after black line after black line.
	It may as well not exist.
	It's of no use.
	And if Patel has seen the unredacted files...
	Okay, then get them out there.
	Just get them out there or find some way of getting the information out there.
	Do a press conference where you just say, here are all the most important parts from it, who he was working for, why he was working for them, how he made his money, how he made his connections.
	Here are the people that he had on his lists that we are going to be putting federal charges against.
	That's all we're looking for from this, really.
	The main details and actual justice to come from it.
	I'm not looking for another clown show to take six months of the media cycle's time and to be forgotten about.
	We're not asking for anything that's even vaguely complex morally, either.
	No.
	It's obviously the right thing to do.
	I'm not particularly optimistic.
	I don't think we're going to ever learn.
	And maybe if there is too much pressure, maybe they will just speak about one or two people.
	That's what I think.
	Yeah, I'm worried about that as well.
	There'll be the symbolic, oh, this one guy is going to jail.
	And then literally there'll be hundreds of others.
	We got him, guys, and it's just Kevin Spacey.
	Just Kevin Spacey by himself.
	Remember, he got acquitted.
	I know he managed to get acquitted on the charges that were brought against him.
	And then Tucker Carlson was like, come on my show, bro.
	Which was very strange.
	I like Tucker, but that was a weird decision.
	Weird number of unexpected deaths of the accusers.
	Okay.
	Turns out it was all Roman Polanski all along.
	But we already knew he was a nonce.
	Yeah, exactly.
	That's not new.
	Anyway, Maria says, Regarding the Epstein files, it's going to take some time to separate the wheat from the chaff.
	Not everyone on his guest list is going to have been wrong-uns.
	That is said it will act as an indicator and provide evidence to those in the deep state.
	Particularly those who are shredding and delaying file release.
	To both Patel and Bondi.
	In this case, this may in some cases be more useful than the actual files, not to mention any of the wrong ones will be running scared and turning on each other.
	Optimistically, yes, but...
	I can agree with.
	If it was just that, if the only news was to do with all of this going on was that certain branches of the FBI are refusing to give over details and information...
	Well, of course, I would expect that.
	But then it's also getting the social media influencer photo op, the Rick Rowling as well.
	Giving them nothing substantive.
	Yeah.
	Give them some unredacted stuff if you want.
	Cash Patel has implied that he knows the names of the people involved.
	Name them.
	Let's get the names.
	The whole point is to release the information in the first place.
	What's the point in waiting?
	Yeah, just tweet.
	This guy, this guy, this guy, this guy, and this guy.
	They're all friends with him, and they all traffic kids to each other.
	Anne says, One thing that's interesting about the Epstein files is that Pam Bondi was the Attorney General of Florida when Jeffrey Epstein was originally convicted, and now she's screwing up the release of the files.
	Coincidence?
	Well...
	Potentially, maybe not, because...
	I mean, it's been years since then, and is it necessarily her screwing up the release of the files, or is it just other insiders and the FBI trying to block her?
	Yeah, I mean, it's all too opaque for us, we can't say.
	But it's just atrocious.
	I agree with Andrew Narog here, saying Jim Jordan should be officially reprimanded for belittling this serious matter.
	Yeah, what the hell was that?
	What was going on there?
	Oh, I know what people want out of the Epstein stuff.
	Rickrolled, because the whole thing, because Epstein didn't kill himself was a meme to begin with, so let's keep it meme-y, bros.
	Oh, we do have some more rumble rants.
	Oh, sorry, go on.
	If you want to go through.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	So, uh, Amandine512, I'm born and raised in the United States and am more British than a lot of politicians in the UK. My direct ancestors are the Hoyts and Maddox.
	Oh, interesting.
	Engaged few, well, since the topmost part of the Appalachian mountain range is the Scottish Highlands, does that make me Scottish all the way here in West Virginia?
	Well, I mean, uh, I mean, depends on your ancestry, doesn't it?
	Habsification, the new civic identity should be called Ukadian.
	That's good.
	Yeah, that's not bad, but also I'm not going to submit to Da UK. Bobo bad.
	When I saw Sunak squatting next to Big Ben holding his curry chips and buttered fish, I knew I saw a paragon of a proper Englishman.
	Someone's asked me a question.
	Would you say metalcore counts as metal?
	Yes.
	I mean, there's two types.
	If it's more converged, then it's more like hardcore.
	If it's more melodic like Trivium, then yeah, it's metal.
	Bobobad says, I think one of the reasons Tate became a Muslim is it adds to the dominance narrative.
	It's a conquering culture that has morals, even if twisted.
	I think he did it because he's brown.
	And Smokey Bongo says, Harry, you forgot nothing ever happens.
	That's a good point.
	Russian Garbage Human says, I don't like Tate, but I enjoy the way he makes secondary schools panic over his popularity and go into massive damage control to defame him.
	Yeah, now, I quite like this aspect of Andrew Tate as well.
	The fact that they are so worried about his influence.
	I mean, you would think they would have some sort of conversation with a conservative who is not actually a pornographer or a pimp, right?
	You'd think they would get some...
	I mean, there must be someone on the right who embodies masculinity without being degenerate.
	Well, yeah, but the point is...
	You name anyone?
	I don't follow the bodybuilding influences and all that.
	I don't follow any of that.
	And I'm not yet a bodybuilding influencer.
	Right, right.
	So there we go.
	I'll get there eventually.
	So the answer is actually no.
	Right, okay.
	Stelios, you're going to have to take up the mantle, I'm afraid.
	So that you're going to have to show off your rippling abs.
	Jan Avi says, Stelios, I really appreciate you condemning the Tates and calling it conservatives that are platforming and supporting him.
	Koff, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens.
	I agree that extreme liberalism and feminism contributed to the rise of the Tates.
	Young men gravitated towards them because they were constantly told they were toxic, but that doesn't mean the stuff they get from the Tates is any good.
	In fact, it's more important than ever that we condemn Tate and direct young boys towards people like Jordan Peace and Chris Williamson.
	Chris Williamson is a good show.
	I don't know why he didn't come to my mind.
	Sorry, Chris.
	The thing is that you can't direct them to these things.
	People find these things attractive because of the situations that they're in.
	Yes, but I'm just a simple man in my thinking.
	I think conservatives should care about moral decay.
	And when people express moral degeneracy, they should be condemned.
	And a lot of people don't want to condemn them because they just want to have their audience by their side.
	Sure.
	The thing is, Like, Andrew Tate is not the author of the moral degeneracy of our culture.
	No, he's not.
	He's downstream of the moral degeneracy.
	And so actually, we'd have to be like, oh, Hollywood, you're the problem.
	Oh, the music industry, you're the problem.
	I have no problem with condemning...
	Yeah, but we're not.
	We don't.
	We don't spend any time talking about these things.
	We're leftists all the time.
	Yeah, but we're here talking about Andrew Tate.
	We're not talking about...
	In this segment.
	Yeah, but we don't spend that much time talking about, you know, the Hollywood degeneracy or the music industry.
	I mean, Harry did really good segments on Diddy.
	Thank you, thank you very much.
	I've done like three or four.
	Okay, well done.
	That's good, that's good.
	I just wasn't aware of it.
	David says, the pornographer Tate is self-proclaimed Mohammedian.
	Yeah, this is my, like, not my main problem with Tate, but this is definitely a problem with Tate.
	Who cares what he thinks?
	He's also done a number of things where he's like, oh, birth rates are down, you're gonna need to take on a lot of Muslim men to get the birth rates back up.
	It's like, stay away from my women.
	Stay away from my women, Andrew.
	My birth rates aren't down, so I'm not worried about you.
	Yeah.
	Omar says, libschits love frittering away heritage.
	They have no right to give away.
	Putting lips to the kind of pig doesn't turn it into a woman.
	Just ask David Cameron.
	Kevin says, two things that the leftist libtards cannot define.
	What is a woman?
	What is an Englishman?
	And the thing is, what I like about this is they've just lost the argument really, really quickly.
	It's been a week, and we've got Sweller Braveman being like, Well, it's actually FNAP posting.
	So, this is a pretty positive perspective from the right, isn't it?
	I don't see it as anything other than pointing out the obvious.
	It's sad that we have to have these conversations.
	The only appeal I see in them is the ancestral and historical discussion that you can have about the English and descending from Anglo-Saxons and such.
	Outside of that, it's all incredibly obvious.
	Yes, but the...
	What is obvious to a normal right-thinking person is heresy to the liberal establishment.
	And yet the liberal establishment's claims, oh, you know, it's actually just civic identity where anyone can take it on as an aesthetic.
	These are just falling flat on deaf ears.
	These are not resonating with people.
	And everyone, even Constantine Kissin, is like, but he's a brown Hindu.
	So, I mean, I think that's a good advancement for the forces of truth, reason, and fact.
	So I'm finding it quite heartening, to be honest.
	I think it's a good thing.
	Charlie says, regarding Owen Jones, isn't the fact that he's demanding that Sweller is English?
	Because he says so.
	Because he says so.
	Not cultural erasure.
	If I remember correctly, it's something he was against.
	Yes.
	And it's just ironic that, you know, oh, if a man says he's a woman, then he's a woman.
	But Svella Braveman has to be English.
	She doesn't get a choice, even though there's no reason to say that she's English.
	She also can't self-identify.
	Yeah, she's not allowed, no.
	He will tell you.
	I was going to say straight white man, he's not straight.
	Nicholas says, in regards to identity, it is so jarboring for the liberal mind to hear the right wing is coming back to blood and soil as the basis of identity.
	Well, it's not just the right wing, it's also Hamza Yusuf, right?
	Like, there are also plenty of leftists who will come to that position.
	That's how they really feel.
	And frankly as well, in a...
	Competitive, now multi-ethnic society.
	There are any number of evolutionary psychologists who could have told you that when all of a sudden you, whether or not you thought of yourself as belonging to a particular group, come up another organized group who identify you as such and go against your interest, it's very, very natural psychological response for you to go, "Hold up, this thing I've never considered about in my entire life is actually a defining part of me, whether I recognised it or not, and I'm going to stand up to defend my rights as part of that."
	This is actually kind of textbook psychology in a lot of ways and dynamics.
	This is what happened to me.
	What happened to me?
	Yeah, I just had to think about it.
	I was like, "Well, no, I'm an Englishman.
	Why do I even have to discuss this?" And suddenly it was like, "Oh, right, the left have been destroyed." It's because random people I don't know hate me for it and want to disenfranchise me for it.
	"Oh, okay.
	Alright, well, I don't want that, so I guess I'm going to oppose it." Yeah.
	And Lord Nerevi here.
	I like this comment because I've been thinking about doing the same thing myself.
	He says, Time for my stunning and brave moment, chaps.
	I wear an English flag pin wherever I go, proudly displayed on my lapel for everyone to see.
	You know what?
	This far, nobody's even cared, positively and negatively.
	Regardless, I display it because I am English and proud of that fact.
	You can trace my ancestry further back than the Viking invasions and my family have all been born, lived and died here.
	The pinners are a reminder that this is my land, my people, and never to be taken away.
	Honestly, I remember.
	In like 2018 or something.
	Getting it in the neck from a bunch of leftists.
	I was like, no, I'm going to order an England flag off of Amazon.
	So I at least have one.
	And I'm getting further and further to the point.
	So yeah, I'm probably just going to end up getting the pin.
	The more I get shit libs going, meh, meh, meh, meh, meh.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	This is ours, and we get to keep it.
	David says, Hamza is a Pakistani Mohammedan who was sadly given a British passport.
	It's not just him who was given the British passport.
	I think he was born and raised in Britain, actually.
	I will double-check that.
	Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was.
	But isn't that interesting how a second-generation immigrant literally says, I'm a son of the soil of Pakistan.
	He was born in Glasgow.
	Yeah, there we go.
	So even being born in Glasgow is not enough.
	You can drink as much book fast, you can take as much heroin as you want.
	You will never be Glaswegian.
	But that's the thing.
	Even then, what age was he when he first went to Pakistan?
	You know what I mean?
	Good question, actually.
	Anyway, yeah.
	Did I say that?
	Kevin says...
	No, I think I did say that.
	Sorry.
	Right, okay.
	Well, we'll end it there then because I don't want to keep repeating things I've already read.
	So, thanks for joining us, folks.
	Go and get Islander.
	It's really good.
	I'm very proud of it.
	I'll probably do a video talking about it at some point because there's something in there I want to talk about.
	But anyway, we will see you in the gold Zoom call in half an hour if you're a gold tier subscriber or just failing that.

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