Jake Rattlesnake joins Louder with Crowder to dissect the Red Pill's utility versus its flaws, tracing his ideological shift from atheist liberal to Christian nationalist after recognizing secularism's vacuum. While acknowledging the movement's accurate insights on female nature and the crisis of male role models, he critiques its often flawed prescriptions and warns against blindly adopting contrarian factions without developing personal logic skills. Ultimately, the conversation suggests that while modern culture disenfranchises men through superficial dating markets and absent father figures, true resolution requires critical philosophical examination rather than reliance on ideological echo chambers. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Foundation Daily Supplement00:02:06
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Australian Crisis Fears00:15:08
Hey, I'm looking into the right camera this time because remember that last time, Toolman, the Ash Wednesday I screwed up?
Because usually I look into this one.
So it's Ash Wednesday where we sit down with a very special someone, and ladies, you're going to love them.
Today, actually, we have on the program Jake Julius, who has almost a million subscribers on YouTube, a bunch of followers on Instagram, and comes highly recommended from Andrew Wilson.
That's how I know he is from the extravaganza that you do with him.
Yeah, man, four times a week.
That's a lot.
Yeah.
How are you doing?
Good.
Thank you for having me.
I know it's a busy time this time of year.
So, I really appreciate it.
Appreciate it.
Now, I want to make sure it's your channel, is it Rattlesnake TV or?
Rattlesnake TV.
So, you decided to go with a wrestling name as opposed to your normal name?
Well, it's actually not a wrestling name.
The way it came about is that I used to work at the Salvation Army for a few years and I was about to have my first boxing fight.
And so, I came out into.
Well, basically, the guy who was promoting it called me up and he said, mate, you got to have a name.
And I was like, I don't know what my name is.
Just call me Jake.
And he goes, if you don't find yourself a name, I'm going to call you Jake the Fairy or something.
So I thought, okay.
Now, can you say fairy in Australia?
Is that not considered a hate crime?
No, I probably will.
I could have had him arrested.
So then I went out into the lunch area of this homeless cafe that I was working at.
And I was like, guys, I need a name.
What am I going to call myself?
And one of the guys comes out to me and he says, well, you can call yourself Jake the Rattlesnake, bruh.
And I was like, homeless guy?
Yeah.
That's how you got your name.
He goes, what about the Rattlesnake, bruh?
You got a name of moonshine.
Well, I don't know what your liquor is there in Australia.
You have an equivalent to moonshine, right?
I don't know, but people often misconstrue the alcohol that we drink.
It's a big problem.
I know you don't drink Foster's.
That's marketed to the States.
It's not a thing in Australia that's really respected.
We actually generally have territorial beers.
Okay.
So in Queensland, we'll have Great Northern.
In Victoria, they'll have VB, Victoria Bitter, or Carlton Draft.
And then in Western Australia, you'll have a beer called Emu.
Emu?
And what kind of beer is that?
It's just a lager, yeah.
Is there any history behind Emu, or just some guy just like, I don't know.
It wakes.
Well, we did have an Emu war in Australia.
I'm not sure if you're aware of this.
I'm more so aware that you're a country, a penal colony of murderers and rapists.
And they've lost their respectfully backbone completely in the era of.
COVID and giving up their guns.
We used to think of Australians as like these rugged individualists.
That's, I mean, the ladies, I guarantee you, are going to love your accent.
It's like shooting fish in a barrel in the United States.
But yeah, now when I encounter Australians, it's surprising.
They seem to have more in common with like faggy Europeans than what we picture as, you know, the outback, rugged folk.
Yeah, this is another common misconception that Australians are all like outback tough guys, all Steve Irwins or whatever it is.
When Australia is actually pretty much mainly centered around these big metropolitan centers, which is Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, and then Perth and these sorts of places.
And then the rest of it is basically just a desert or bush.
Yeah.
So the whole middle of Australia is just a huge desert.
I've driven through it from south to north, and it took me two weeks to do a whole round trip of Australia.
And you can basically drive from one township to another, which is an Aboriginal township, and it'll take you like 12, 15, 16 hours.
When you drive through the middle, like you're talking about, like the brush, the middle of the desert, yeah.
How many animals, insects, or reptiles that could kill you did you see?
We saw a camel.
Which was interesting.
That's uneventful.
Like in the average day to day Australia, as a kid, no joke, I used to have nightmares about Australia because I just assumed everything that could sting, envenomate, kill, maim lived in Australia.
In your day to day, how much of a concern is it or does it not come up?
Not at all.
Not at all.
I think that America is way more dangerous, right?
I'm not talking about people, I'm talking about like the taipans and, you know, like the spiders that you guys have, the funnel web spiders.
Like, how, you ever run into those?
Never.
Never had a concern.
If you walk in long grass, if you're not wearing gumboots, then you might have a bit of a problem.
But in America, I said the other day, I want to go for a hike because you've got some nice places in America.
And then they said, oh, you have to wear long pants and you have to do this and that because you have all these ticks that can come and bite you.
And you have all of this poison ivy or whatever you guys call it over here that you get on your skin.
You don't have poison ivy in Australia?
Not to the extent.
We might have one here or there.
But in Australia, when I go hiking, I just put my shorts on, my runners, and I can go hiking for days.
I don't have to worry about mountain lions.
I don't have to worry about bears.
Any of these things, the worst I'm going to get is maybe a snake.
Well, yeah, but what kind of snake?
That's the thing.
I saw a tiger snake the other week.
Okay.
Kind of venomous?
Yeah.
In Australia?
Yeah.
Is it kind of venomous?
I'm not super familiar with it.
They're pretty venomous.
They are.
Well, there you go.
You wouldn't want to get bitten by one.
Like compared to the rattlesnake by your name here, like compared to a diamondback, what a tiger snake will be.
Rattlesnake will fuck you up, man.
Yes, it will.
I know it will.
That's why I don't, but I don't know about the tiger snake.
That's true, though.
I will say in Texas, like, I do miss the woods.
I grew up, you know, in the Northeast and then also Michigan, where here there's that thick underbrush.
So, you can't really walk through it.
Whereas, you know, because of the winters, everything, if you're in Michigan, you can walk through the forest and it's really nice and you don't have to worry about a snake and a spite and stuff that can kill you.
So, I will say the American Southwest is probably more comparable to how we picture Australia.
I just can't get over the bear thing.
The worst thing that you're going to come across in Australia is a crocodile.
That's pretty bad, Jay.
You don't want to come across a crocodile.
That's pretty bad.
This is in the Northern Territory, it's in the swamplands.
You're not going to come across a crocodile unless you're really looking for trouble.
But in America, you can pretty easily come across a black bear.
Yeah, but they're not that bad.
Which is the worst bear?
Well, okay, so if it's black, fight back.
If it's brown, lay down.
If it's white, good night.
Because a polar bear, they hunt humans for fun.
But they can be aggressive, but they're more so scavengers.
But it is like God made a bunch of animals.
And I want to get to sort of your transition from being a libertarian to, because that's why you're here, not here to talk about animals.
But I'm fascinated.
God made all these animals where a lion will bite, or let's say a jaguar will bite the top of a skull because there's incredible bite pressure, right?
It's an ambush predator.
A lion will grab your neck and you bleed out.
And God was just like, hey, how's the method of, you know, what's the final lethal method of the bear?
And God was like, it's so big, whatever.
So he just tunnels through you while you're alive and he doesn't care.
We didn't have to worry about that, did we?
No, that's the thing about a bear.
Like, they don't kill you first.
It's just they start consuming you, basically, whether you're alive or dead.
That's what's so cruel about a bear.
Yeah, as an Australian, that scares me.
Yeah.
Well, I'm scared of everything that you have in Australia.
But even more so, I'm scared of the government that you guys have in Australia.
I mean, we just, you know, obviously, horrible tragedy, the shooting that had taken place recently.
I mean, I say recently, relatively speaking, because in the United States, people always pointed to Australia as an example, right?
Like, oh, we could do a buyback.
And I've Talked about this for years.
Beto O'Rourke pushed that, and people here don't know what mandatory buyback is.
And it's really troubling when something like that happens in Australia, and the solution just seems to be yeah, more gun control, and we're going to keep our eye on right wing extremists.
Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, the 1996 Port Arthur massacre, there is actually a pretty big question as to whether that was a false flag attack, but that's probably not what we should get into today.
But yeah, they did a huge mandatory buyback.
And then, actually, what we've seen over the past, you know, however long, is that one of the solutions to the mass shooting recently is that more gun control is actually the answer.
It's actually not anything about immigration.
It's not anything about inviting people in here to fight an ethnic blood feud of thousands of years on foreign sands into our country.
It's nothing to do with that.
It's probably to do with the fact that we have very little access to guns.
Why do you think your people go along with it?
I was raised in Canada.
Again, I was born in Detroit, which isn't that much better.
But.
Was raised there, and I will say I refer to them as a conquered people.
The big thing is, for better or worse, we had a war for independence here against the world's greatest superpower to become the world's greatest superpower the next century.
In Australia, why do you think the people were so easily subjugated?
Well, I think you kind of have to look at the general attitudes towards government that we have in Australia.
You see, in America, you guys have got the Civil War, you know, you have the war for independence.
World War I and II, which you guys were very much involved in.
You have Vietnam.
I feel like.
Involved, and some would say we were the tiebreaker, but yes.
Yeah, well, I feel like that's sort of in your veins, though.
It's sort of in your blood.
You have this spirit where you guys have a desire to fight for freedom, to maintain freedom, and you have this constitution, which everybody knows about and loves.
But in Australia, we're just very apathetic about all of these sorts of things because we've never been too overtly involved in a war for our freedom, at least not in a time that we can imagine, or at least not in a time that we can remember.
So, World War I, we had the Anzac soldiers who fought in Gallipoli on the beaches of Turkey.
We still have that.
We have the Anzac Day every single year, and people will commemorate the Anzac soldiers.
We've still got the Vietnam War, but I mean, everyone considers it like an unnecessary war.
Right.
The younger generation isn't connected to that whatsoever.
And we've essentially, well, I mean, I went to a funeral of a Vietnam vet, right?
And all of his friends were there, and they were all singing the old Vietnam songs.
And it was pretty touching.
And I walked out of it thinking, Man, these guys had a mateship and a brotherhood and a connectedness to Australian identity that we just are completely and utterly removed from today.
Right.
Completely removed from.
But also, you have to think about the quality of life of Australia.
So, if you think about it, we are essentially a geographically isolated country with all of the natural resources that you could possibly imagine.
We've always had a pretty homogenous culture.
People get paid well.
Life is good.
And we don't have these big wars in our recent memory or in our nation's sort of founding that define us like you guys do.
Right.
So, when you think about it like that, it's led Australians to be in a place where we're a very apathetic people when it comes to.
When it comes to like times of crisis, that makes sense.
And COVID showed this as well.
People were basically just completely reliant on the government.
They completely trusted the institutions.
Yeah, they really did.
And they were building camps for the anti vaxxers like myself.
Right.
I was put in a hotel room for two weeks against my will.
They were building camps and then people were protesting against this in the street peacefully.
And they released the riot squads on us, they released dog squads, they were getting bashed in the street.
And it's not only that the Australians by and large accept it, they were cheering it on.
Yeah, that was going to be my next question.
Yeah.
Is when that happened, were you concerned that, okay, a good portion of my neighbors would rat me out?
I also had a follow up question as far as what the Vietnamese, you said they were singing the old Vietnam songs at the funeral.
I was like, Hong Hong Ao Ma.
Like, I don't know what a Vietnamese is.
There's a song called The Band Sang Waltzing Matilda.
Okay.
That's a really good one.
And if you look at a band called Cold Chisel as well, they've got a song called K Sallin.
Okay.
Have you ever heard of that?
It's a real famous song in Australia.
I hear it's very big in Sheboygan, so I don't.
Yeah, I have no idea.
But no, that makes sense.
There's lack of a.
So, really.
And that kind of brings you going libertarian to sort of, I don't want to say mislabel Christian nationalist because I don't want you to be put in cuffs when you go back to Australia.
But yeah, lack of a national identity, which may explain why, in my experience, contrary to Europeans or even Canadians, Australians, even though they lean left, they're thoughtless on politics, I would say.
They don't have the rabid anti Americanism that you see in Europe.
They tend to be pretty much okay if they see American tourists and stuff, in my experience, when I encounter them on the road.
Does that fit?
Or do they hate Americans just behind our back?
No, we tend to.
I think the biggest problem that they would have with Americans is that Americans are just sort of considered a little bit stupid.
And this is sort of a caricature that's painted of Americans in the other Western countries, is that they're all basically just hillbillies.
So, World Star doesn't help, but yes.
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, yeah.
So, that would be the only thing, but I don't think they have any major problems with America necessarily.
Yeah.
So, nope, cultural identity.
How do you go from tell people kind of your story?
Because your channel grew pretty fast.
And we've often talked about it.
I don't know if someone could grow a YouTube channel these days.
You know, I got my channel started and started growing, I guess I should say, treated like a job in 2008.
And the ecosystem is so different.
Back then it was YouTube.
Now it's pretty dominated by legacy media, you know, a lot of their channels and a lot of the sort of content that they put out there.
But you've grown pretty fast in the last couple of years.
As Andrew was telling me, and I've watched quite a bit of your content, but I didn't really sort of give an origin story.
You were more libertarian.
And now I know you do a lot of the debate content, but would you say Christian nationalist, and I don't mean white nationalist, is more of an apt description?
And how do you get there from libertarian in Australia?
Well, insofar as Christian nationalism is defined within the circles of people who would call themselves Christian nationalists and who aren't sort of using the term, I would say, yeah, Christian nationalist in the sense that I think that in white Christian Western countries, there should be Christian people who are able to govern according to their Christian sensibilities.
Right.
So that's what I think that Christian nationalism essentially is.
So, how did you go from libertarian to that?
Is there a strong kind of undercurrent of that in Australia at all?
Or are people apathetic?
Because, like, we'll get into Red Pill and the Manosphere.
In the United States, there's so many, it's like the top 40 list.
It's not the same.
People kind of have their own thing they listen to or what they watch.
You're never going to get Johnny Carson ratings again.
But if, like you say, in Australia, people aren't super involved, is that even an identity or a movement that's mainstream in Australia?
No, not at all.
Not at all.
Now, Australian politics is a very interesting one.
We can sort of get into the different factions and political movements that are arising in Australia and the sort of dialectic that's going on there.
But in terms of how I came to it, I mean, I was a pretty staunch, no, not even pretty.
I didn't really know what I was.
I was kind of a moron, basically.
But I didn't really know anything about politics.
All libertarians kind of.
Yeah, yeah.
Like I was, I just said it, I would be classified more, but I never identified as one.
But when you look at libertarianism, you're like, all right.
I mean, at a certain point, like black tar heroin in every vending machine, this doesn't work.
Yeah, exactly.
And there are some great examples that you can give of that in debates.
But so I had no interest in politics until basically COVID.
And then actually, I started listening to a lot of your content around that time, maybe just before.
And I was listening to a lot of Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro, these sorts of things.
But before then, I was an atheist liberal.
So, I basically just went with all of the different cultural conditioning.
Now, were you, yeah, I was going to say, were you sort of default or were you aggressively, like you were willing to defend?
No, I was basically a moron.
I was one of those people who you'd walk up to in the street and be like, why do you think that abortion should be legal up until nine months?
The Alpha Lie00:03:05
Because women's rights.
Right, okay.
Yeah, I mean, I would never have taken a stand because I just didn't really care.
Yeah.
But then.
You were probably too busy crushing s.
But the reason why I was going, taking these positions was to attract the s.
Yeah.
You know?
I would imagine you do quite well in Australia.
You're a good looking guy.
And obviously, I know that you were a personal trainer and you boxed.
I would imagine you do exceedingly well in the United States.
I don't really get out that much.
Yeah.
I don't really get out that much.
But I don't know.
Christian nationalists, you're not supposed to lie.
You're not supposed to lie.
Women here love the Australian accent.
They do.
I have noticed that.
It's a big thing.
Yeah.
Whereas in Australia, you're just one of many.
Do they like the American accent in Australia or no?
They do.
They like it a lot.
They do.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, I think the only reason why I took atheist liberal talking points was to impress, like, Chicks back in the day.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I'm in.
I'm for all this social right stuff.
Have you ever heard of the sneaky f?
Is that Sneako?
No.
Because he is one, but no, I don't.
If he has an actual name.
I'll get into more of my transition.
It's okay, too.
Ladies don't care because you have the accent.
They're not going to hold it against you.
I'll get into my transition story soon.
But so basically, the sneaky f, this is a term that I got from Gad Saad, actually.
I heard him talking about it once, is a zoological term.
For pufferfish and a few other different animal species, where basically what the beta phenotype, because you have the alpha and the beta phenotypes in these sorts of, whether or not you believe in those hierarchies, in these animal kingdoms.
And so there'll be the alpha pufferfish, for example, and he will have access to all of the females.
And then what the beta phenotype pufferfish will do is instead of trying to compete in the hierarchy, he'll try and morph himself to actually look like the female to try and bypass the alpha and mate with the females.
And I think this is a perfect.
Perfect representation of male feminists and of male liberals because oftentimes they grow their hair, they start to wear sort of like colorful wavy shirts, they start to adopt feminine talking points.
Yeah.
And then they think that this is a way for them to get essentially.
Yes.
They get bloated.
Yeah.
I didn't know that about pufferfish.
I didn't know that it was, I knew about this sort of hierarchy.
And there is, to be fair, when people talk about wolves and dogs, because now you have people say there is no alpha.
And the truth is, there's more, you're looking at these archetypes.
There's more.
Top of the pack, kind of middle of the pack, back of the pack dog.
There isn't really just one alpha.
Like people think that, okay, you're going to be taken out the moment you're even remotely seen as impervious.
No, the truth is, there are dogs that can kind of be in positions of leadership.
They still have to work together as a unit.
Yeah.
So it's not as rigid as people may present it, like, I'm an alpha bro, but it's certainly not this idea.
I also do think that you can look at the UFC heavyweight division and then you can look at the sneaky and you can ascertain some sort of a male dominance hierarchy.
Pretty much.
You can look at the heavyweight division and then look at the flyweight division.
Yeah.
It's like, well, congratulations.
You're the toughest guy at a 14 year old girl's slumber party.
Yeah.
Because there still are quite a few divisions above you.
It doesn't make it any less impressive as far as skill.
Church of England Roots00:04:27
So that's why you did it.
And then COVID.
Yeah.
So how do you get to libertarian from that?
And then how do you get to Christian nationalist?
Well, because then I started looking into more of the political issues and I started watching guys like yourself and Tim Poole and the Daily Wire and these sorts of things.
Jordan Peterson was a huge influence on me.
Yeah.
As he was so many young men of my generation until he started, you know, going into unsolvable problems, but that's a different conversation.
But he was huge, hugely impactful on me.
And then you don't really just jump from one thing to another.
Then I started getting, calling myself a libertarian, saying that I'm, um, Socially liberal and fiscally conservative.
Oh my God.
I didn't even think I knew what fiscal meant.
And you still had one foot in the puss camp.
Yes.
Where you're like, I still like being swarmed with lady parts, but I want to kind of.
Yeah, I get it.
Well, I mean, but it is ostracizing once you actually take it to its logical conclusion.
Yes.
Take the truth to its logical conclusion.
You get ostracized.
And in Australia, hugely ostracized.
Like they would think I'm an actual Nazi in Australia because of my worldview.
They would think that I'm an imminent danger because I believe in Christian values.
Right.
So, anyways.
Australia, forgive me, is there any type of history rooted in Christianity as a basis of government at all?
I know, obviously, in England, the Church of England, which we sort of rebelled against.
I'm not super familiar, aside from the fact that it's a penal colony of rapists and murderers.
Yeah, well, I mean, it was settled by the British, and the British, it was settled by Protestant Brits, the Church of England sort of thing.
So we have a, and up until the 1960s, we had a white Australia policy, which basically means that we only accepted immigrants from white European Christian countries.
Up until the 80s?
Up until the 60s.
Oh, until the 60s.
Yeah.
So then they reverse that.
It's sort of similar to the Immigration Act of 1965 in the United States.
Well, it's one thing to hear that a lot of people don't even take into account.
They just think, yeah, it's all the same.
I read the poem on the Statue of Liberty.
It's like, do you think the Founding Fathers would have had a chip in their brain for.
They didn't even want Catholics to sign the Declaration.
You think they would have been okay with people who say jihad is the only way?
Yeah, it's interesting because people never take into account the cultural context, right?
So.
The context of the time when the founders were writing their founding documents, 18th century, the idea that Muslims or Hindus could eventually come and run for office in America was just a total impossibility.
The Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads and these sort of Hindu documents had maybe just started to circulate around Europe at these times.
And Islam was a total backwater at that time.
We were like, wait, not those guys who we had to literally make leather necks.
Yeah.
For folks out there in the ships to protect them from being decapitated.
They're not coming here, are they?
Yeah.
And you'd be like, yeah, just wait a couple hundred years.
Exactly.
So the idea that they could come and, like, you could have Zoran Mumdani.
I know.
And all of these people running for office and winning in New York was totally foreign.
So, I mean, cultural context is required.
But yeah, no, Australia does have a Christian heritage and a Christian lineage.
And we were a very Christian country up until, you know, a few decades ago.
And just like the rest of the places, it's just going downhill.
We used to have communities and churches and people gathering on Sundays and these sorts of things.
Yeah.
Well, I wonder if it's, you know, a big reason for sort of Protestantism in the United States or being sort of, I hate to say, anti sort of orthodoxy.
It is kind of central because we were rebelling against the Church of England in order to preserve faith because we saw how it was corrupt.
I mean, Catholicism was effectively the state religion in Quebec where I was raised, and in Europe you have the Church of England.
Anywhere you have a state enforced denomination, faith dies.
The United States didn't, although we made sure that everyone should at least, we thought, would be in no uncertain terms like this constitution only works for a moral people.
I just think it was sort of assumed at that point.
Like you said, there's a lot they couldn't take into account.
Like, come on, people who want to subvert the entire government.
Yeah.
We're not going to allow that religion in, but here we are.
And I always wonder, too, why it's so.
I mean, you'll see these cathedrals and churches that are older than this country when you go to Europe or even places in Canada, completely empty.
Completely empty.
Much older than the country as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, okay.
So you go to libertarian.
Yeah.
And then you become how do you go from libertarian?
So you said COVID to sort of more Christian nationalist.
And again, for people, it's Rattlesnake TV.
Rattlesnake TV.
Okay.
All right.
Hitchens and Atheists00:15:52
So I was not only libertarian during the first maybe few hundred thousand subscribers of my YouTube channel, even.
I was also pretty red pill.
Like, I was pretty heavily into the red pill movement.
I liked Andrew Tatel.
I still like Andrew Tate.
You know, like, I have a lot of more disagreements with him these days.
But, you know, I was big into Tate and like Fresh and Fit.
And I still like Myron.
I think that he's a cool guy.
But we have disagreements about prescriptions, obviously.
But I was very much into the libertarian stuff, very much into the red pill stuff.
And then there was sort of a fork in the road that happened for me because I then encountered Andrew Wilson, who's a friend of both of ours, obviously, helped to line this up today.
Good man.
Yeah.
And a prick, but a good man.
Yeah, a good man and a prick.
Yeah, I like that.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
A lot of people don't understand the space.
Yeah, it's not a contradiction.
He can be a total prick.
He's actually pretty sweet.
He's very, very polite, but he's not the kind of guy who will fake you out just to be polite.
But a good man, but prickly.
Let's put it that way.
Yeah, exactly.
So, anyways, I had him on my channel because I saw him do that Matt Dillahunty debate.
And I'd had a few Christians on my channel before that.
My friend Brandon from a channel called The Daily Dose of Wisdom, really great guy and everything.
And we had a good chat about Christianity.
He started to get me thinking about it a little bit more seriously because of the arguments that he presented.
But then, when I got to my conversation with Andrew, he kind of smacked me between the eyes.
He wasn't going to let you off.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, you know, my libertarian sort of traits were seeping out during the interview a little bit.
And he was like, Yeah, see, man, there, you're like, you're a feminist.
You're like, you're swimming in the water of feminism.
I was like, Hold on a second.
I'm not a feminist.
I'm based, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then we talked about it more.
And then he goes, All right, well, next time you're going to come on my channel and I'm going to beat the libertarian out of you.
And then I actually went on and did a debate with Jim Bob on his channel about libertarianism or about something along those lines.
And by this time, I'd already sort of really started to rethink it.
Yeah.
So then I went down more of a different debate.
Like before, I was really interested in debates, but I was more covering guys like Douglas Murray and Jordan Peterson and all these sorts of people.
But then I started to get into the religious debates and into the Christian debates.
And I don't know if you'll remember this time, right, when the atheists were so pervasive online.
You had Christopher Hitchens, you had Richard Dawkins.
I remember how early on there was that guy, the amazing atheist, on YouTube.
Like when I was there, there were no Christians, it wasn't a thing.
So basically, what it was was just compilations of atheists dunking on Christians.
Right.
And all of these hitch slaps, right?
And I used to love that shit, dude.
I used to eat it up.
Sure, he was.
Well, he's a very smart guy, very skilled guy.
Yeah.
But then what happened was I started to understand the rules of debate a bit more because I think that debate is essentially like a chess match.
Right.
And then you have only limited moves.
So you can't grab your pawn and move five steps ahead because that's.
Sorry, what was that?
You can't grab your pawn.
Pawn.
Your pawn.
Because I guarantee you, there are some other people now who have other tabs of porn.
We'll use a castle.
You can't grab your castle and move diagonally, right?
That would be a fallacy, essentially, in debate.
You only have limited moves, and you're constrained by the laws of logic, and you're constrained by fallacies.
So I started to look into debate a little bit more thoroughly and start to look into the rules of debate, the laws of logic, all these sorts of things.
And then I went back and looked at the debates with Hitchens and all these Christians.
And I realized that Hitchens was basically just a rhetoric machine.
He didn't actually make many logical, grounded arguments.
All he did was use rhetoric.
And he was an absolute expert.
And he was very funny.
He was very quick at this.
Very witty, very charming.
And I will tell you, it's also easy to contrast.
And he's been a friend of the show, but Dinesh D'Souza, who comes across as very robotic.
And like, well, that's actually inaccurate.
And like, well, you know, packy, or whatever he says.
He didn't say that, but you know what I mean?
And you're like, oh, okay, I like this guy.
Yeah, he was.
Continue with this.
Mine was very similar, only I'm pretty, people say I'm reductive.
I really liked Hitchens, and it was 2009 where I watched a video of him being waterboarded.
I think it was a video already.
And then he was like, That's absolutely torture.
I was like, pussy.
Yeah.
And that's when I got off the train.
Yeah, dude.
So similar, but mine was much faster.
So, yeah, I mean, different strokes for different folks, you know.
I think, like, the being a puss during the waterboard is a totally fair reason to discount someone's point.
To be fair, no, mine was, I was going, your argument.
Yeah, yeah.
And this is 2009.
I remember it was at the PJTV studios.
I remember saying, So, your argument was predicated on the idea that waterboarding must not be that unpleasant?
Yeah.
That should change nothing.
In other words, are you at risk of death?
The answer is no.
Has the method changed?
The answer is no.
You just experienced it and realized it's unpleasant.
No one was ever arguing that waterboarding is anything other than unpleasant.
We were saying that we think that given the alternative option of a building being blown up, it's a viable method.
And we can have that argument or not.
But I just remember saying in my head, I can't believe you changed your stance based on that.
Yeah.
And in that moment, I was like, okay, I'm going to have to look at it much more critically.
So continue with your.
But I remember my moment with Hitchens.
That was it.
Well, I mean, Hitchens is such a fascinating character because he's obviously a brilliant guy.
Yeah.
And his literary ability is absolutely, I think, second to none in terms of the last few decades or the last generation.
I'd agree.
Because his ability to write.
There's a documentary that he did about.
And there's one part of the documentary where he's detailing that when he's going in to view the room in which his mother committed suicide.
Because his mother had essentially a suicide pact with her lover at the time.
And they went to Greece.
And they enacted this suicide pact.
And he describes it in this way where he's receiving the phone call and then he goes to Greece.
He walks into the room, he sees the crime scene essentially, and then he walks out and he sees the Parthenon.
And just like the way that he describes it is brilliant.
So, not to discredit him for being a very intelligent guy, but it's interesting because I have a few friends who knew him.
I interviewed Douglas Wilson on my channel.
Okay.
Douglas Wilson had a close relationship and debated him as well.
So, Douglas Wilson said that at the end of Hitch's life, he was at least had a foot in the door.
He was at least asking the question.
He was past that whole atheist thing.
And then I knew a few other people as well who were close friends with Hitch.
And I've always been really fascinated by him.
So, this is why I'm interested to know people who knew him.
And I spoke to these other people, and they said that Hitchens, the reason why he went down this atheist line was because essentially he was an intellectual heavyweight who wanted the biggest challenge possible.
He felt like because you know, he went around throughout his entire career going to the Middle East and he was very much into the whole Kurdish issue and these sorts of things.
He went all around the world and he was a campaigner for various different human rights issues around the world.
And I feel like what they were trying to tell me is that essentially he got bored of all those things and he's like, who's the biggest and baddest dude that I can fight?
Right.
It's the God issue.
Yeah.
And he wanted to tackle that.
And so Andrew was the one who made you beat the libertarian?
Yeah, well, he did.
But I guess what I was saying before in terms of the rules of debate and the chessboard and these sorts of things, like once you start to understand actual formal logic, And once you start to understand philosophy a little bit more, I feel like you're just lying to yourself if you don't eventually come to the conclusion that at least conservatism is true.
Tradition is necessary, but then Christianity is actually the most logically coherent worldview.
Yeah.
No, I think that's absolutely true.
And then people will poke holes through it.
I mean, I was on.
I remember the first time I was on Joe Rogan's show, I did it like four, either four or five times.
And the first time I was like, I just don't want to get onto the Christian thing, where I would always argue from a more pragmatic standpoint just because.
My thought was, I'm not going to get this person, you know, they're not going to have a road to Damascus moment with me, but I can sort of present it logically and then work, you know, behind the scenes to try and present a good example.
And he said something about, like, so do we want to get into the imaginary, you know, guy who you follow who, you know, something like that.
And I said, like, Joe, do we have, let's just not do this, the way you load that.
And now we see he's going to church.
I don't know if he's in a Bible study.
I know Theo Vaughn is, where at least it's culturally, except it wasn't, sorry, there's fizz in this.
It's Topo Chico, so that's why I have a little bit.
And by the way, anyone else like that we're dressed like we're in a militia together, me and Jake?
I know.
We didn't plan this.
I was like, ah, you are ingrained.
Well, that's fine.
So, back then, there was no option, really.
There were no, not only conservatives, but Christians online.
And it was presented as though it was illogical, right?
Spaghetti monster was a thing.
And then, when you started going in through the history, I noticed a change when people would say, you know what, I'm not a Christian, but I understand the value in preserving a society when they saw not only secularism, but how that created a vacuum that was filled by Islam.
What we now maybe know as wokeness, you know, back then it would be seen as, I just called it always leftism.
Then it was SJW, it was kind of a thing.
It always sort of takes a new term.
I've seen a lot of people come to it through that and then go, okay, so we can't fill a vacuum with nothing.
So how do we prevent nothing, right, from happening in the first place, sort of going back to the never ending story?
Okay, well, we got to keep Christianity then, because it kind of is a binary choice, you know, Christianity or something else, right?
And we decided to go, something else was nothing, and then that gets filled by something stronger.
But yeah, but proselytizing on YouTube back then was a fruitless endeavor.
Yeah, I feel like the age of the internet and social media kind of led to this rise and people getting more used to having the short fix dopamine hits.
And then I also, like the way I've observed it, is that it's kind of gone full circle because initially what you had was all of these sound bites of atheists destroying Christians.
And it kind of feels intentional when I look back at it now because so much of this generation was subverted by that and so many of them.
Parrot the same talking points without even thinking about it.
You always hear Christianity is so illogical, you believe in some sort of a Sky Daddy spaghetti man.
Not bothering to get into any of the arguments about the telos or not bothering to get into any metaphysics, not bothering to get into any history, church history, anything like that.
Basically just sound bites and talking points.
And it illustrates the retardation of our generation.
Then it's kind of come back around because I do feel as though at this time there are more people engaging with long form.
Debates, but also there are more people looking at the world around them and realizing that there is no essential meaning to their life.
So, if you're just going through the motions all the time and you're just going to your job and then you're coming home and then you don't really ever look up at the sky and think what the hell is going on up there, you're sort of detaching yourself from this internal yearning that I feel as though we all have to be a part of something greater and that there is something greater out there and that there is a meaning to life.
And I don't know if this is necessarily an argument, but I think that we kind of all just internally have that yearning.
Oh, yeah.
It's going to break free somehow.
Yeah.
There's a God, you know, people always say there's a God shaped hole in everyone's heart, and that's kind of a, you know, a cliche, but it is true.
Yeah.
You know, before even Red Pill was a thing.
And by the way, we can, I also want to get into that because I'm curious because you said, you know, you wanted to impress the ladies, but then you went Red Pill before Christian.
I'm curious as to how that works with feminists in Australia.
But I interviewed Cassie J., did that film, the Red Pill movie.
That's what it was called early on, was really more about just men's rights in general.
She set out to sort of disprove it and sort of learned about custody battles and what was going on in the court system.
And learned about back then, really just affirmative action and STEM fields.
And actually, I don't even know what she's doing now.
I think she got, I think when she was on my show, she was like, Yeah, I understand men's rights, but she was still an atheist.
And I think now she's married and has kids and did what a lot of female commentators should do, which is go off and actually have a family as opposed to staying in front of the camera.
But I do remember that kind of coming up.
And I remember on the show Parks and Rec, just to give you an idea how it was treated initially, Amy Poehler, some guy was created as a caricature and he said, I'm like, men's rights.
And she just said, Okay, that's not a thing.
Yeah.
And that was how Hollywood viewed it.
And that was how it was viewed at one point in time.
And then the momentum shifted.
And I don't necessarily know how we got to this.
But how did you go to Red Pill then before we even get to Christian?
Because that was an evolution that I watched happen in real time.
And then I just saw a lot of people jump on it.
Right.
Well, the thing that is really attractive about the Red Pill, I find, is that there is a serious vacuum that's opened up, a serious almost like influence vacuum that's opened up in modern culture because we are really lacking father figures and we're really lacking that sort of.
Archetypal male.
Not only have the fathers been taken out of the homes, but the fathers have also been pussified, the ones that are in the homes.
And then also, all of the role models that you would look to on TV, Bruce Willis, Die Hard, all these sorts of characters, are all being replaced with black trans women.
And that is essentially leaving men homeless, ideologically homeless.
And all men look for this.
All men look for guidance.
They all want mentors and all these sorts of things.
My dad died when I was 19.
And the first thing that I did, I had a really rough period after that.
But then, one of the first things that I did, and I didn't even know that I was doing this until I looked back on it in hindsight, was I started searching for male role models.
And this is when I met my boxing coach in London.
And he was, for the next four years, basically just blood, sweat, and tears, just training boxing.
And I would never miss a session.
But what I was looking for was that father figure.
Right.
What I was looking for was the person to actually mentor me and guide me because young men need that.
So I think that there's a similar thing going on here with the red pill.
All of these young guys, they haven't necessarily been taught about how to sort of, like Jordan Peterson sort of says, stand up straight with your shoulders back, have some confidence, think about who you could be and aim single mindedly at that.
All of these fantastic pieces of advice that he gives.
They don't hear that rudimentary advice.
That's why he was so popular.
But then the reason why the red pill is so popular is because we are totally and utterly void of male role models.
And then what fills that void or attempts to fill that void is feminism and is female messaging and conditioning, which is out of touch with reality.
So they can't fill that void.
Oh, yeah.
So then what.
What the red pill content creators realized is that there's a whole generation of young men who have no idea about female nature, who have no idea how to act around women, and who are feeling totally disenfranchised.
Because in society, we need incentives, right?
So if you're looking at a whole generation of young men, you need to have incentives there for them to freaking create the power lines and to do all of the infrastructure under the roads and to create the civilization that we live in.
And if we don't have those incentives, what is the incentive?
Well, essentially, it's always been to have a family and to have access to females and to have children and to have a legacy and to have purpose.
And this is missing from guys' lives.
And it's like the very seedbed of that is dating.
And this is what the red pill has caught on to.
Right.
Because you can talk about family and kids and go out and have a family, but the seedbed of that is dating.
It's interpersonal relationships and intersexual dynamics between men and women.
Right.
So we have to start there.
And that's what the red pill kind of.
And finding someone who you would want to start a family with.
Yes.
That's a big issue, too.
I mean, there was a book called Wild at Heart.
This was something that was pretty popular in the Protestant church where it talks about how every boy needs, you know, a dragon to slay, a princess to rescue.
You know, obviously these were allegorical.
And it's tough with the dragon to slay, like, really, I guess you kind of replace that with, you know, The workplace, sometimes there's actual war, but very often, more often than not, we're not fighting a war.
Red Pill Dating Desires00:14:34
But then a princess to rescue, that's like, okay, have you looked at the state of the dating pool in a lot of modern women?
A princess to rescue, I'm not getting that.
And so, what's it all for?
Like, what are you even fighting for?
And a lot of men checking out.
And I think the prescriptions are really bad from a lot of people, which is why I thought that Andrew was pretty helpful as an Orthodox Christian who, even though he's bombastic, people might say, like, if you actually listen to what he's saying, he's saying, no, don't go out and be hyperly promiscuous.
Saying, actually, these are the things that are rewarding and meaningful.
And people will just say he's a chauvinist anyway.
But how do you get there if at that point in time you're just trying to get more chicks and you're a libertarian?
How do you get to, oh, okay, now I care about meaning in life?
Because it would seem you're set.
You're a tall guy.
You do well for yourself.
The ladies are all over you.
You're boxing.
Why?
Most people think red pill is like for guys who struggle to meet women.
Well, I mean, I've had my own sort of different dilemmas and issues with dating over the time.
You, you, yeah, which of the nine to sleep with?
Come on, yeah, well, not here in the states, you don't.
My, I'd say my first few relationships and everything that I had, I would very much lean into the feminist messaging because it's kind of all that I knew, right?
And uh, it ended up going really badly for me.
So then I guess I started listening to these red pill podcasts and started thinking, huh, maybe it's because I'm not holding my frame properly when I'm with women, maybe it's because I'm letting them lead too much, maybe it's because of X, Y, and Z.
And actually, a lot of the descriptors that they give are spot on.
So, the prescriptions, I agree with you that the prescriptions are normally way off, but the descriptors that they give are very true.
Like, for example, that a man has to be masculine and has to have a purpose in life, has to be a potential provider or a provider, has to at least have some ambition, potential, these sorts of things, has to understand the nature of women and not romanticize the nature of women too much because women aren't these totally empathetic, just love you for your personality sort of creatures that they're.
That they're painted to be in Hollywood, for example.
Women are just as opportunistic as us.
They have their own biological desires, just like us.
And, you know, you might say that actually their desires are quite a lot more shallow than ours are.
And when it comes to relationships, there's a reason why women tend to leave the relationships a lot more than men as well.
So to be aware of these descriptors is really important.
And I found that I was getting the descriptors totally wrong.
I thought that women were all benevolent.
And if I gave them flowers and was a big simp to them, then they would just love my personality because I was such a nice guy.
Right.
And it just went so badly for me.
And I was like, what is going on here?
Well, what do you mean so badly?
If it's not too personal, would you have ladies go for the bad boy?
Well, yeah.
I mean, during school, I was always pretty overweight until I started boxing.
So, never really had much luck with women.
Really?
Yeah, never.
Yeah, I was always quite fat.
And then when I started boxing, I started to have a little bit more success with women, but I was just really simpy.
Because you would beat them if they didn't oblige.
Yeah, exactly.
It helps.
I should have.
No, but I was just really simpy towards women.
I just had a totally wrong attitude.
And I think even if you are a big Chad and you've got all of these things going on, if you appear as though you are.
Not confident in yourself, or you appear as though you've got no ambition, or that you're sort of looking to her and relying on her and totally obsessed with her as opposed to your own mission.
Then, the guy who's like five foot eight and a bit skinnier, who has a mission and is a little bit more doesn't give a he's going to do better than you with women, right?
What do you mean when you say that some of their desires might be shallower than men?
Well, I do think that actually women are biologically determined, not determined, but biologically women have a desire for men.
Who are going to basically just provide for them.
So there's an exchange that goes on there.
And to be clear, I can see people going to go, oh, my husband.
It's like, no, no, we're not saying that the man has to be rich in a Lambo, which, by the way, I just have my hired help tend to my Lambos.
What we're saying is they do need to see the potential to be a provider.
In other words, you could be someone now who maybe is, let's say you're in Harvard now and you have student debt, but they know that you're in law school.
Yeah.
Right.
So sometimes I can see those sort of strummen being presented right away.
Yeah, well, look.
Have you looked much into the history of World War I and II and about how the women would desert?
Well, so I know what you're talking about, and then I'll often be like, oh, okay, just, you know, if you don't kill me, then I'll bear your children.
What do you mean?
As far as incoming enemies.
You know, I mean, that was the thing women would, as a defense mechanism, it predates World War I.
But I read a specific, I can't remember the book on it, where it talked about how women far more readily would avail themselves to who they viewed was going to be the winning side in a war.
So aside from the Kaiser helmets, no, I'm not super familiar with World War I.
I know it didn't have the Nazis.
There is that.
But then there's also the, even you get American women as well.
And then you'd get the, I think they were called maybe the Dear John letters or something like that.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
In the war.
And it got to the point where the generals would not give people their mail because these letters were so common where these women would be essentially breaking it off with these guys.
They were so common that they would not give their mail if they're about to get it.
It would be devastating.
Yeah, because they didn't want to decrease the morale around the camp.
There's also an interesting one.
I think it's called the Uncle Carl phenomenon.
Which is when the Germans would go to war, they would come back.
And it wouldn't be that they would marry to a Frenchman necessarily, or it wouldn't be that they'd married an American or anything like that, but they would come back and it would be a higher ranking German official that had married their chick because the chick had married up while they'd been gone.
So then they would come home and then to avoid any confusion, they would start calling the biological father uncle.
So, yeah, I mean, I do think that women can be very superficial just in terms of their needs and desires.
And this is so amplified these days.
If you look at social media, for example, What's happening?
Well, nowadays, and this is something that the red pill accurately points out the women in the current dating market don't just have access to the men in their immediate area like they used to.
Now it's globalized.
So now, if a girl is half decent looking and if she just posts a photo of her with some nice cleavage on her Instagram, then she can get offers to be flown out to Dubai and flown out to the south of France and all of these different places.
And you're basically living life on easy mode.
So there are a lot of women who are sort of Making that deal with the devil, as you will.
They will make that deal and say, All right, I'm going to be good looking forever because that's what the media tells me.
I'm going to age like fine wine.
When I'm 60, I'm going to be just as attractive as when I'm 21.
So, this gravy train is basically going to last forever.
But that's just not the case.
And that's just not what happens.
And I feel like they're being encouraged with the bombardment of social media and also of their innate desires for security.
They're sort of making that deal because they do have an innate desire for security and for flashing.
Like you'll see that.
For attention.
That's a social currency.
Attention, security, flashing, high status.
And the way in which they.
It's interesting because tell me if I'm rambling too much, but.
When they post photos on their Instagram, there's this thing where they would put the Gucci bag in the photo somewhere, or where they will be on a yacht or something like that.
And what this is We're not talking about Andrew Tate, though.
We're talking about the ladies.
Okay.
Women, yeah.
So what the women will do is they will essentially do all of these different things to socially status to other women.
Yes.
To socially signal to other women.
Not necessarily to men, maybe to men to say, this is what I desire, but generally to other women.
And this is the same thing with a big wedding ring.
You get a big wedding ring, expensive wedding ring, high status male.
This is all sort of built into their sort of biology of how they sort of signal to other women, if you will.
And social media is, you see that same phenomenon happening, but with designer brands and with locations and with boats and all of these sorts of things.
Well, I think it comes down to this is going to sound reductive, but the wedding ring, really, its value is precisely correlates with how much it pisses off your friends.
Yeah.
That's really what it is, right?
Exactly.
Because women often find, whether they admit to this or not, validation through the attention of men.
Yeah.
Men, to some degree, get that from him, but men actually get more validation from the attention of other men.
That's how you have generals.
That's how you have bosses.
That's how you have a heavyweight champion.
So you have men dying for honor.
That's exactly right.
And the truth is, women, I think, can't stand that.
I think that I've talked about this.
The thing that I think women are most jealous of when it comes to the difference between the sexes is that men are better at friending.
It's not that men can be stronger, it's not that men don't need birth control.
It's that men far more often have lifelong friends, and it's incredibly rare amongst women.
And women will tell you, Women are the worst.
We backstab all this stuff where it really depends on the level of your success and how much jealousy sort of can fill that gap.
Whereas with men, we're often you will get jealous men, but it tends to, in other words, if you have a friend who's really successful and he's not rubbing it in your face, right?
He just is doing really well, you might be jealous and you go, Oh, I just need my break.
But it will drive you to try.
You're not going to start hating him.
It's not a normal reaction, it can happen, but it's not a normal reaction.
It seems to be the default.
Those guys don't go very well.
It doesn't go very well for them.
Like you can kind of sniff it out and you want to get rid of it out of your circle, any sort of resentment or jealousy.
Right.
But if you're in a circle of guys and it's like you're doing really well in your area and they're picking your brains, how did you do this?
How did you do that?
How do you manage your finances?
How do you do X and Y?
What do you invest in?
Then that's a really sort of positive upwards trajectory of a friendship group.
But if you have that one friend who's like, that should be me, you know.
Right.
Yeah.
I'm smarter than you.
I should be there.
That is cancer.
You want to get rid of that cancer.
From the group straight away.
Well, I don't know if you saw this in boxing, but in jiu jitsu, this would happen a lot, where I was the de facto training partner for children and for women, largely because I was the one thing I had in my reputation was I wouldn't injure anybody.
And so if women were like me, women would go out to ADCC, which is this big sort of grappling tournament, and I would often be training with the women, even though I'm much larger, because their female training partners would go hog wild and hurt them.
Whereas men would often be able to, they would go, okay, this is his tournament coming up.
My job is to get him ready.
To make sure that he peaks, to make sure that he doesn't get hurt, the coaches would keep women away because you'd see women get hurt all the time by other women.
I don't know if it's the same thing in boxing, but like, oh, she has a shot.
She's getting some shine on her.
I want to show that I can hurt her in training.
They weren't able to separate it.
I don't know if that was the same thing in boxing at all.
Well, I mean, you generally, in boxing, what I found was the women would go as hard as they possibly can, and you just sort of cover up and just tap them occasionally.
So you don't really worry about it too much.
No one's ever going to, like, I think maybe with jujitsu.
But if you have two women together, right, you can't just turtle up and, like, in other words, now it's two women going as hard as they can.
So, same thing in jujitsu, you would get that a lot.
Whereas you get men go, okay, I'm taking either, I got a bad ankle.
Great, let's roll this.
Whereas women were just, they have very little control in boxing as well.
Okay.
The women together?
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, that makes sense.
So you would just turtle, let them tie themselves out.
Rocky three, you ain't so bad.
Yeah, it's cute when they do it.
They're like little pillow hands.
Yeah, I know.
Even when you watch female boxing professionals, they punch like girls.
I've had that a lot.
I was training in Thailand and there was a bunch of professional female Muay Thai fighters and it was just the same thing.
They're just so much weaker than us.
Yeah.
It's not even close.
You can't.
But, you know, with martial arts, and I'm sure you'll be able to attest to this, I find that it's an interesting microcosm of the male experience as a whole.
Because if you're in a boxing gym and you're a fuckwit, as we'd say in Australia, or you're a prick or you're arrogant, or you're.
There is no real way to hide that, right?
No.
So if you come in and you're talking a big game, I'm this, I'm this, I've won all these sorts of things, and then you get on the mats or you get in the ring and then you get humbled.
Well, you can't talk your way out of that.
No.
You can't, like, there's nothing.
Well, I will say this, probably the same with jiu jitsu.
I always said people have a decision to make, these men.
Because we would often get men who come in and, like, I was a Navy SEAL and stuff, like, great, roll with our white belts.
Not to denigrate Navy SEALs, but they're war fighters, not fight fighters.
You know what I mean?
It's a different skill set.
Where a guy would typically get folded up like a cheap shirt, and then he has a decision to make.
Okay, I'm not as tough as I thought I was, and learn this, or deny reality and still tell everyone at the bar that you've never lost a fight.
It's kind of a binary decision.
And I've had, I've told the story.
I became good friends with a guy where we were rolling in jiu jitsu.
And to be fair, he was going through a rough go.
And my instructor, because he's Brazilian, that's the worst part of Brazilian jiu jitsu is all the Brazilians.
Yeah.
He was holding me back to like win tournaments.
So he kept me at white belt, whereas at this point I was certainly closer to like a purple belt.
I'm rolling with a guy who's a purple belt and I was submitting him.
Right.
And he was getting mad.
And he then got up and I got him in an ankle lock, which we agreed to.
And he.
Kicked my ass to get out, like literally, like kicked me in the ass, but before he tapped, but like really hard.
And I was like, What's your problem?
He's like, Oh, you're not supposed to be doing that so cheap.
And we almost got into a fight.
And then the coach came in and he's like, Oh, he's like, Hey, there's no leave.
And the guy called me afterwards, Hey, I'm really sorry.
He's like, I'm going, I have this stuff going on at home.
He said, You know, I just being older and knowing that you're coming up, like it was, yeah, it was, it was humbling.
And we then became each other's training partner where there was complete trust, where it was never competitive.
Because we were helping each other grow and we became good friends after that.
And I think you see that a lot in martial arts because there's an honesty in where you stand and you want to help each other.
Oh, yeah, dude.
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, I've always referred to it as sort of an ego death that you have to go through because before I started boxing, I thought I was a tough guy because I'd been in a bunch of street fights and I sort of grew up on the wrong side of the tracks in Melbourne.
I was always, you know, I went to four different high schools, kept getting kicked out, was always in trouble with the police and these sorts of things.
Right.
So I thought I was a bit of a tough guy because I'd been in street fights.
So, first day I walked into my boxing gym when I was 19, my security guard at work introduced me to his friend Ed, who was this boxing trainer.
Ego Death in Martial Arts00:07:38
So I was like, I'll go down.
So I walk into the gym and I'm fat at this stage.
And my boxing coach, yeah, I know, gross.
My boxing coach was this Caribbean guy and he was a real tough guy.
And so he goes to me, he's like, You ever done boxing?
And I was like, Nah, I never boxed, but I know how to throw a punch.
Oh, boy.
Worst thing you could possibly say.
I guess he said, Lace up.
He put on the gloves and he took it to you.
No, no.
Probably even worse than that, actually.
He goes, Okay, yeah, cool.
He goes, Come over to this bag.
You know, show me what you got.
And then I started wailing on this bag like a retard.
And then he pulls me aside after, and I was like, I'm expecting a compliment.
You know, oh, you're good, man.
And then he pulls me aside and he says, I don't know who the f told you you knew how to throw a punch, but they lied to you.
And then for the next three sessions, he had me on a little cross with sticky tape in the middle of the boxing ring, doing back and forth footwork step one forward, step one back, step to the left, step to the right, end up back in the cross for the next three sessions.
And I was getting pissed because I was like, dude, everyone else is training and I'm here on this cross like a dummy.
And I guess he just wanted to see if I was persistent.
And I kept coming back.
But that was my first ego death.
And then you have more ego deaths as you go because then you get into sparring and you just get the shit walloped out of it.
Oh, yeah.
I remember the first time I got really badly beaten up in sparring was this kid, Brandon, and he was like 17.
And I was, I think, 20 at this stage.
And he'd had a few amateur fights, and I hadn't had any fights at this stage.
We got in the ring.
We're in a place called Stoke Newington, which is like a really tough, rough part of London.
In this gym, I was the only white guy.
And Brandon, actually, he was white too.
And then Brandon just gets in there and just batters me for four rounds.
Batters me.
It was brutal.
At one stage, I turned my back, which everyone in the boxing gym was like, Yeah, you never turn your back.
No.
And so after it, I went to the bathroom and I just started crying.
I was just bawling my eyes out in the bathroom.
And I came back out, and people probably could tell that I'd been crying.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then that was such an ego death because I realized at that moment that everything that I thought I was was totally wrong.
Actually, I was kind of weak and I was actually kind of a coward because I was scared and I was going through this experience where I'd been manhandled and belittled, and all of those.
Walls that I had erected, all of those like false conceptions that I had of myself as some tough guy who can really defend myself, yeah, crumbled.
Well, I think that's a big disconnect between men and women.
And by the way, this is not to say that men are better than women, or I mean, we're better at most things physical, obviously, all things physical.
But, um, the different messaging, like, you can't have a hit single or a show telling young men you're perfect just the way you are because no one would watch it.
Men, like, come on, what are you doing?
There has to be some sense of realism, but it can be pumped toward women.
Um, you know, most women don't go through that experience of getting their eyes.
So just, Consider that only its beauty, which by the way, women are the worst in judging each other on beauty.
But they just go, Well, I'm beautiful just the way I am.
You're not challenged on it, where it's like, I can punch.
Well, let me punch you.
You now have the answer.
But if someone says, Well, I don't think you're that beautiful, yes, I am, because I've been told that I'm beautiful.
There isn't that same death to your ego.
Yeah, and I think that it's also just like boundaries because men, I feel like we have to move in a way where we are going to have the strongest possible tribe.
To fight off, and maybe this is me looking into it too much, but I feel like men kind of have to have a tribe where we are immune to outside forces and we don't really have many chinks in our armor.
And if you're a man and you feel like you're with a few liabilities, guys who wouldn't jump in if somebody jumped you, or guys who wouldn't have your back if life really went south for you, then you just sort of know that and you don't really want to sort of get too close to them.
But if you do have guys around you who are loyal and who are going to have your back in times of peril, then that is sort of what you want.
So, in order to cultivate that, We form different boundaries.
And one of the boundaries will be that ego death, is why we always give each other s.
Right.
Why Andrew Wilson's such a prick, you know?
We just form those boundaries.
It's so prickish sometimes to be like, do you really think that?
Really?
Have you thought that through?
Does that work for you?
You're like, all right, look, come on.
I just asked you how the ham was.
I smoked it.
I was pretty happy with it.
But yeah, we need to have those things.
And a lot of the restrictions that we put on each other are, for example, the ego death.
If you have someone who has too big an ego, you're going to just relentlessly pick on them until they're brought back down to where they roughly are in the pecking order, right?
So, women don't really do that.
They do the opposite.
So, their circle of things that are allowed is expanded endlessly.
It's funny that you say that because you can literally see that daily in this show.
So, there's a reason that everyone makes fun of Gerald and cuts him out of context with, like, guys, I'm gay and all that stuff.
It's because he's, you know, 6'4, 6'5, a freak athlete, beautiful family.
He's always been pretty successful, where it's like, it doesn't matter.
He can take it and it's fun.
Same thing, like, I give Toolman crap all the time.
Like, are you sure about how that TriCaster is working?
Because literally, you could seat me in front of that thing and say, We're going to lock this room and you do not get out until you figure out how to work it properly.
And I would, you just find my bones here like 30 years from now.
Yeah.
And so that's where it's like, okay, you can't get too big for your britches.
You know, that's something that we do.
And it's a form of love too, provided that, you know, there's loyalty on the other side of that equation.
Yeah.
And I know we're going to go to premium mucklib here.
So I want to make sure people know to go to Rattlesnake TV.
Let me ask you this, though.
Like, what do you think is most important?
Because you said you kind of went from libertarian to Christian nationalist, kind of covering debate.
What do you think is most important, like, that you want to cover?
Going forward, or you think is something that needs to be touched on because now media is so fractured and people need to balance finding their voice in the space versus a sense of purpose?
I would say rudimentary philosophy and rudimentary logic is really important because that can help you to really tie the loose ends up of your worldview.
So, for example, as a secularist, they will very oftentimes make claims in which they have absolutely no justification for.
And if you are a Christian, you can quite easily debunk these things.
Like secularists are always basically just trying to grant themselves that they should be the ruling authority.
Christian nationalists, we can't have that because they're going to rule over us with their dogma.
You guys do the exact same thing, except people don't have the requisite knowledge of philosophy to push back on you and to put you in a corner and make it apparent and obvious that you're doing the exact same thing.
Just because you're a secularist doesn't mean that you don't have dogmas of your own about abortion and gay rights and about secularism itself.
So I would say, rudimentary understanding of philosophy.
And logic and debate skills and all these sorts of things is really important.
That's why I try and promote a lot of my channel, why I try and go through not only the ideas being presented, but also the debate tactics and kernels of knowledge here and there about basic foundational logic.
Do you think that that's something necessary?
Because a lot of people come to sort of red pillism or sort of right wing conservative nationalism, whatever you want to call it.
Some of them come to it simply through contrarianism and then they too need a basis for it, and you're hoping that they go a little deeper?
Yeah, well.
I do think that a lot of people these days base their worldview upon their own life experiences.
So, for example, if you're a young guy and you feel dispossessed or disenfranchised, you're going to look at some of the different factions that are going on and you're going to sort of hitch your wagon to the red pill because I'm struggling with dating.
Women don't really notice me.
Don't say that out loud.
Cobra Venomated Logic00:02:26
No one's going to believe it.
Don't clip me out of context.
It doesn't matter how many times you say you used to be fat.
In the States right now, the comment section is lighting up with ladies like, nah, that act is.
Well, you could be a Hemsworth.
The DMs are open.
I bet they are.
So, yeah, I mean,.
Oh, wait a second, you little s.
You put a ring on your wedding, or is that your pinky?
Oh, okay.
I was like, you're tricking us out.
Yeah, there's no ring on your finger.
Yeah, I bet you those DMs are open.
So, yeah, so basically, just yeah, understanding what was I saying?
Oh, yeah, men are sort of hitching their wagons to whatever it is that is apparent to their own current dilemma, essentially.
So, guys who might be 20, 21 years old, broke, you know, ugly, not getting attention from women, why are all these guys getting all the attention?
What's this Andrew Tate guy saying over here?
They're going to hitch their wagons to that, but they don't have actually any fundamental knowledge of why they believe what they believe.
So, understanding a little bit about maybe epistemology, what knowledge is, how we come to knowledge claims.
Why we know what we know, why we think we know what we know is really important, then you can examine it on a bit of a deeper level.
And that was really important for me.
Yeah.
I think a lot of people just go through their whole life not thinking of those things.
I kind of came at it through the opposite, where I was like, okay, people would say you're rationalizing your pre existing position.
That is true.
I did that when I started because I was always pretty conservative, deeply Christian, and it made sense.
I was going, okay, how do I find what I need to ensure that this makes sense, to argue it?
Which some people would say is the wrong way to go about it.
But That's how I came to it.
And I know we're going to, if you are not a member, click right there.
You can continue.
We're going to have some funny, he was telling me some funny road stories about how he sold his body to keep his YouTube channel going.
So, but that's a teaser.
It was a den in Cambodia.
Yeah.
Well, at least you weren't out there in the killing fields.
So, Jake, well, Jake Julius, but I want to say Rattlesnake TV because I keep, whenever I hear Rattlesnake, I think Jake the Snake, and I keep thinking of that famous we've talked about.
Jake Rattlesnake is normally best.
Okay.
Yeah.
Did you ever see when Jake the Snake had Macho Man Randy Savage bitten by his Cobra?
That's a full man.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
Man bitten by a live Cobra.
On television Saturday morning, and the cobra's teeth get caught in his shoulder.
Saturday.
And he's stuck in the ropes, and he's like, No, man, get this cobra off me.
And then the cobra died 12 days later.
Really?
Yeah.
So the cobra was, whatever, devenomated.
Came off second best.
Yep.
Not Macho Man.
All right, we'll continue with this Ash Wednesday.
And if you're not a member, well, you're out of luck.