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March 3, 2017 - Louder with Crowder

01:34:15

#131 LEGAL VS. ILLEGAL! Dr. Jordan Peterson and Owen Benjamin | Louder With Crowder

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Time	Text
	Music Oh my god...
	BRIVANT!
	Get to the bomb shelter!
	Sullivan!
	Are we up to date on supplies, Private?
	Sir, yes, sir.
	We have a full 30-day supply from preparewithcrader.com, sir.
	A 30-day pre-made supply food kit?
	That sounds like a rip-off, Sullivan.
	Sir, no, sir.
	Thanks for preparewithcrader.com.
	We got 30 days for the food.
	$99.
	Thanks to preparewithcredit.com.
	That supply was shipped 30 days.
	$99 free?
	Why, that does sound like a good deal.
	You might not be totally useless after all.
	Tell me, does that kit include the broccoli cheddar cheese soup I love so much?
	Yes, sir.
	Right here for you, sir.
	And how about those dehydrated bananas and oatmeal?
	Sir, yes, sir.
	Right here for you, sir.
	And how about that chocolate pudding that's better than store-bought?
	Private.
	Private.
	Private!
	I need the pudding, sir!
	You what?!
	I need the pudding, you've got to replace it, sir!
	Mission Control!
	Send more pudding, Mission Control!
	I've got to replace the pudding, Mission Control!
	Send more pudding, Mission Control!
	Private, first took that phone down!
	Send more pudding!
	Now come over here, Private.
	Get out of yourself!
	Together!
	Now go and replace that chocolate pudding.
	Oh, no!
	Prepare with Crowder.com or call 888-411-5153.
	30-day food supply kit, $99 ship free!
	They have pudding!
	We'll be right back.
	That's the ancient art of Kata.
	By the way, for people, before you complain, this is unloaded.
	I was showing my producers here.
	I did a trigger job on my Ruger SP-101.
	Fantastic firearm.
	Huge show today.
	By the way, first off, producing with me in video studio, as always, is Jared, who is not gay.
	Follow him at Twitter, on Twitter, at notgayjared, me at scrowder.
	I fulfill my legal obligations, drawing on conclusions.
	We good?
	Gerald is back in the seat.
	That's right.
	Worst Twitter handle in the business.
	Thank you.
	Very much.
	And apparently Edward the Sound Guy is now Fonzie.
	Did you see that?
	Hey.
	Hey.
	We got Razor Ramon on sound.
	Hey-o.
	Hey-o, my bad guy.
	Big show.
	Big show.
	We have Dr.
	Jordan Peterson back.
	We'll be talking about...
	We took your questions.
	So, of course, today is the live show, by the way.
	For those who want the daily show, ladderwithcloud.com slash mugclub.
	We had some huge shows this week.
	Big debates behind the paywall that we would never be allowed to have on YouTube.
	And Jordan Peterson, and we have one of the best comedians working today, Owen Benjamin.
	Many of you know him, love him, very funny, and a little more outspoken about his political views.
	He is.
	I think 2017 is creating a culture that's becoming okay.
	It's becoming okay.
	Which is good to see.
	It's a conservative coming out year.
	Yes.
	In a matter of speaking.
	But every year, Jared's coming out.
	We'll get our own ABC show one day.
	Speaking of coming out, faith-based gay group.
	I don't know if you saw this.
	This is in the news.
	We'll get to other news after this, but I thought this was most pressing to address all of this.
	Faith-based gay group, did you see this?
	For Ash Wednesday.
	Coming up to Easter, they put glitter.
	Do we have that?
	They put glitter in the ashes.
	Yeah, right there.
	We have it right there.
	They put glitter in the ashes.
	I don't know why.
	It's some kind of a statement.
	And people are mad about it.
	But honestly, I think they're being rather merciful compared with their original plan of replacing Lent candles with butt plugs.
	I don't think that's...
	Welcome to Thursday.
	Welcome to Thursday.
	So now let's get to the real news.
	Valerie Jarrett.
	Did you read that?
	Valerie Jarrett is moving in with the Obamas.
	This was a big thing.
	It was trending all day today.
	Valerie Jarrett is moving in with the Obamas, the most trusted senior advisor, moving into their D.C. home.
	And this is because there's speculation that they have a plan to enter sort of liberal politics and create these think tanks.
	The only thing worse than a Jimmy Carter presidency is a Jimmy Carter post-president.
	Yes.
	I think that's Rush Limbaugh who said it.
	I don't know who says it.
	My dad says it all the time when he's yelling at the TV without pants.
	His post-presidency!
	So Valerie Jarrett, by the way, whose family we know are open communists from FBI documents.
	This is important to note.
	Valerie Jarrett's daughter was also recently hired by CNN to cover Trump in the Justice Department.
	Did you know this?
	So Valerie Jarrett, moving with the Obamas, Valerie Jarrett's daughter hired to CNN to cover Donald Trump.
	And first off, it would make one hell of a sitcom.
	Valerie Jarrett was moving with the Obamas.
	That's our communist!
	Noted communist and daughter working with CNN. And people wonder why Americans don't trust the media these days.
	We'll get into that more as far as all the relationships.
	Don't miss it.
	I didn't know about that one.
	World premiere.
	World premiere on TBS. They have to compete with Tyler Perry.
	That's not easy.
	That's not easy.
	Tough stuff right there.
	The lead-in is, Medea says, learn!
	CNN hires her daughter, moving in with the Obamas.
	It gets to a certain point with Chris Cuomo, with Wolf Blitzer, Jarrett hired at CNN. You've got to wonder what the hiring practices are even like there.
	All right, well, thanks for coming in.
	It's been great talking to you.
	I really appreciate it.
	You've got some great experience here.
	You've worked with a lot of great news organizations, done some good stuff.
	Yeah, thank you.
	We're going to talk about this, and I'll be in touch after I discuss it with some people.
	But I really...
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	No kidding.
	No, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Oh, you're hired.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Oh, wow.
	You're good.
	Thanks for coming in.
	We appreciate that.
	Yeah, no, it's good to have you here.
	See you next week.
	All right, thank you.
	I don't know how I get all this exclusive footage from the offices.
	That's part of the leaks.
	I'll tell you what, your support of the Mug Club is really leading to a level of professionalism.
	Unparalleled.
	Anywhere on YouTube.com slash Steven Crowder.
	I don't really know at this point.
	The one thing is, you know, we've talked about this before, but I don't think people know how entrenched the media is with the DNC and particularly with the Clintons.
	We can go through a few examples here.
	George Stephanopoulos.
	Now, a lot of young people don't know this about George Stephanopoulos.
	Look at that.
	First off, he's the third member of Siegfried and Roy.
	He's going to be dragged out by a tiger and a leotard very soon.
	He was Bill Clinton's communications director.
	He was a Democratic Party advisor.
	Now, you know this, I know this, but a lot of people who watch the show who are younger don't know that.
	This is a guy who's hosting ABC News.
	news he's the host of this week literally worked for the clintons you don't need a conspiracy you don't need to talk about chemtrails or john podesta uh with little boys in his basement at a pizza parlor this actually happened donna brazil donna brazil of course al gore's campaign manager twice the interim chairperson for the dnc caught sneaking debate questions to hillary clinton worked for cnn openly working for cnn as a correspondent chuck todd Chuck Todd, Democrat campaign staffer, worked on 92...
	Sorry, worked for the 92 presidential campaigns.
	I was going to say worked in 92 presidential campaigns.
	That's impressive.
	He must moisturize.
	He is a go-getter.
	He worked for the 92...
	I don't know.
	I must have had a stroke today.
	My mouth is not working.
	The point is, the guy's a Democrat.
	The point is, the guy's worked for the DNC. We're good to go.
	I tweeted him.
	I don't know.
	This is a genuine question.
	Does Chris Cuomo actually still think he's a news anchor?
	Or does he consider himself an opinion journalist?
	I don't know.
	It's got to be opinion, right?
	No.
	He has to know that.
	I think he considers himself a news anchor.
	Okay.
	And, you know, the reason for this from the left is they operate from this basis, I think, from Chris Cuomo.
	The only way he could consider himself a news anchor and not an opinion journalist, when he's more opinionated, more slanted than this show, we're incredibly biased, don't get me wrong, but at least we try to admit it and explain it and explore what kind of bias we have and where we might be wrong.
	Chris Cuomo doesn't even allow room for that.
	And I think he would consider himself a news anchor as opposed to opinion journalist because today's progressive lefts It's not necessarily facts or statistics based, but it's just, you know what?
	I know the way society should work.
	It should be this way.
	Therefore, news.
	You know, there are 37 genders.
	Therefore, every single boy who wants to compete as a girl or a girl who wants to take steroids should win female wrestling state titles.
	We know that society should work where marriage is between whoever wants it to be.
	Therefore, this is news.
	We know George Bush was a war criminal.
	Therefore, news.
	We know Hillary Clinton was supposed to be the first female president.
	Therefore, news.
	And their opinion now, if you base it on that foundation of, I know how society should work in New York City better than you do...
	Then you consider it all news.
	Yeah, even as entrenched as I think we are in our ideas, we hold this principle that maybe we're going to be wrong and we probably won't know it when we are wrong.
	Right.
	So listening to other people that have a different opinion is pretty good.
	It is a good idea.
	When asked for his opinion as to why people believed he wasn't a legitimate journalist, Chris Cuomo had this to say.
	Oh, man.
	Oh, God.
	Oh, man.
	Oh, God.
	Oh, man.
	You need to calm down, Chris Cuomo.
	He worked up.
	He gets himself too worked up.
	He does.
	And I do, as much as I don't like him, I worry about the man's health.
	Yes.
	I do think, and you know, talking about that too, this idea, exploring it a little deeper, that news reporters who fancy themselves arbiters of how society should work, therefore everything's acceptable as news as opposed to opinion.
	There's this idea that there was a golden age of journalism.
	And I I don't know.
	I feel like I'm one of the few people who maintains that never actually existed.
	There was never a golden age of journalism, certainly not since the 70s.
	Walter Cronkite's as bad as anyone there's ever been.
	He's just as bad as Cuomo.
	I mean, Walter Cronkite said, you can't be a reporter and be a liberal.
	You can find the quote very easily, but people fancy him as this unbiased journalist.
	I don't think there's ever—I don't think human beings are capable— This is entirely my opinion.
	That's why I have much more respect for people who are open about something on which they're incredibly biased and say, this is how I justify that worldview.
	Because I feel as though Chris Cuomo, Wolf Blitzer, take your pick.
	They're all trying to justify the worldview.
	They're all trying to reinforce it.
	But some do so under the guise of news.
	Am I alone in that?
	No, I respect people that give me an opportunity to see a reasonable case made for somebody else's opinion.
	Even though I may disagree and think they're idiots.
	Yeah.
	But it's a reasonable presentation.
	Not like some nut job on the left or the right.
	Yeah.
	I think it's important, by the way, to see the difference.
	Note the difference.
	Not KJ talked about this during the show pitch meeting where he was much more talkative than today.
	Apparently a cat literally scraped out his tongue.
	He's like that dummy lady in Dead Silent.
	No one here watches horror movies.
	That's right.
	You're all pansies.
	I forgot about this.
	You'll hide under the covers and watch reruns of Three's Company, which is also why you're under the covers.
	Suzanne Somers.
	Wow.
	And then you have these people who come in and then you throw these buzzwords out.
	This is what worries me a little bit about the modern sort of alt-right, quasi-conservative populism movement where people go, oh man, corporate media!
	Now we just exposed and we just talked about the media and how biased they are.
	And I totally agree with that.
	But if you throw out the corporate media, yeah, that's a problem, but you would prefer...
	Government media?
	I mean, you have these same people out there who have Trump in their avatar, Pepe the Frog, and then they go, BBC Man or NPR. Are you out of your tree, sir?
	Government-funded media.
	We talked about this.
	Canada literally had two parts, NDP and the Liberal Party.
	Justin Trudeau won.
	I can't remember who promised what.
	I think it was Justin Trudeau promised another $100 million to CBC, the Canadian, the government-funded news entity in Canada.
	If he won, guess who won?
	Justin Trudeau.
	Smart man.
	And for some reason, people assume NPR is somehow unbiased just because they're boring.
	That's one thing, too.
	People like to assume passion equals dishonesty.
	And somehow, if you're sitting there talking about your lesbian folk trio on NPR, people are like, oh, this is unbiased.
	And that's one thing.
	If you guys have been listening to NPR, they have the worst slant of anyone out there.
	If you think that is damn fine reporting, you need a CAT scan.
	It's the exact same thing, where they operate under the assumption of the liberal premise.
	They operate under the assumption of, well, gender, of course, has nothing to do with biology.
	One's gender is not determined by one's sex.
	And they'll go on.
	And you're like, if you just don't understand what you're hearing, you go, yeah, NPR sounds like they're factual, because this, I mean, why would they broadcast anything this boring if it I want to see the number of car wrecks associated with NPR listenership.
	Yes, yes, exactly.
	I fell asleep, officer.
	And, you know, same thing, too.
	We can't compete with NPR's podcast.
	Everyone's like, oh, their podcast, Serial, is always at the top.
	Well, of course it's at the top.
	No one else.
	These are independent podcasts.
	We can't compete against a never-ring supply of federal funding.
	It's like, Serial is number one.
	Oh, how much did you get from the government?
	19 trillion zillion dollars.
	I can see why.
	Well, no wonder you're beating Joe Rogan, dicks.
	My point is this.
	I really think it's just important, instead of just under the blind assumption that this person is biased, this person is not biased, we always tell you that we are biased.
	But be aware of what you're watching and be able to parse it yourselves.
	If you look at the connection with the media, there's no denying that they lean left.
	But the same thing if you tune into a Sean Hannity, who at this point effectively acts as a surrogate for Donald Trump.
	And I like Donald Trump, and I actually like Sean Hannity.
	You need to be aware of what you're watching.
	The golden age in journalism, I don't think it ever existed.
	I just don't think people were aware of what it was that they were consuming.
	We'll talk more about that after this break.
	Then Jordan Beers and an Owen Benjamin.
	My voice is going high.
	I'm in the break.
	Welcome to another installment of The Reasonable Conversationalist on NPR.
	This week, we are joined by William Jarrett, Valerie Jarrett's husband, Tom.
	Thank you for being with us, William.
	Thank you for having me.
	Now, William, of course, you've been working with your wife in politics for years on the equal rights on which we all agree for the LGBTQAI community, correct?
	Yes, that's correct.
	Fascinating.
	And truly is a civil rights struggle of our time on which all Americans can agree.
	How can we best move forward, of course, in assuring that none of us will, for example, misgender one of the current 57 available offerings?
	Well, I just think that you should probably ask them what they prefer to be called.
	Well, that sounds entirely reasonable.
	Join us again next week for another installment of The Reasonable Conversationalist on NPR. Music I
	call that my Edward the Sound Guy dance.
	I think he was inspired by this, so he was just pointing pistols at you at G. Morgan Jr.
	Well, that's not nice.
	It's not very nice.
	At this point, I actually have a pistol in my office aimed squarely at Edward the Sound Guy.
	It's on a stand.
	You just have a button you can push.
	That's the truth.
	You're never supposed to aim a gun at somebody, but if you have a gun in a room, Anywhere.
	It's always aimed at somebody.
	Oh yeah, I always cross the front of mine.
	If I was in the bathroom, technically it would go through the wall.
	Right.
	But it's there.
	Right.
	And I feel better about it.
	I sleep better knowing it's there.
	My AR-15 would take out the pool guy.
	He wouldn't even see it coming.
	It's awesome.
	It's aimed at the wall.
	It's aimed at the wall.
	It's not aimed at anybody.
	If it's aimed at Edward...
	It's aimed at me, too.
	It's true.
	Son of a...
	Yeah, it's loaded with hollow point.38s at this point.
	It's not going to overpenetrate.
	Edward's a thick enough fellow.
	It's a.39 caliber magazine.
	Yeah, if it were Jared sitting there, that would be much more of a problem.
	You'd both be taken out.
	Yeah, that's true.
	It'd be like going through a magazine and then into a paperback.
	But in this case, Edward would stop it.
	Speaking about the media, and listen...
	I'm amazed if the media wants to talk about, you know, being banned, right?
	CNN, they were banned.
	We'll talk about that later.
	I'm amazed that there's no commentary right now on this from Europe.
	Do you see this with Marie Le Pen?
	So Marie Le Pen, France, obviously, listen, undoubtedly a flawed human being, Marie Le Pen.
	So first off, don't expect us to defend everything that Marie Le Pen has done.
	But this story here, for those who don't understand, let me clarify it for you.
	Let me break this down so that then we can talk about it.
	In 2015, Le Pen tweeted out some gruesome pictures of what ISIS actually does.
	Specifically what they did to the American reporter, James Foley.
	So, the socialist left in Europe, European Parliament, just voted to retroactively...
	Now, there's immunity, I guess, applied to certain people, to politicians, where you're not allowed to post certain kinds of images.
	Basically, it's an infringement on free speech.
	There is an immunity that applies to certain politicians, to certain figureheads in Europe.
	Okay, so this applied to Marie Le Pen.
	It applied to Marie Le Pen in 2015 when she tweeted these images out.
	European Parliament elected to retroactively remove her immunity so they can now prosecute her for a crime in 2015, which was totally legal in 2015.
	And what was her crime?
	Free speech.
	Free speech.
	Tweeting out something that actually happened.
	They weren't classified pictures?
	They weren't anything like that?
	No.
	It was public?
	Yeah, they weren't classified pictures.
	Yeah.
	You could actually find the images on Google.
	She didn't know who it was at the time that she was tweeting out.
	When the family contacted her, she immediately removed it.
	Right.
	So she did everything right, it seems.
	Well, listen, again, she's a flawed person.
	I don't know where her heart was with that, but she has a real problem with Islamic terrorism, as do I, and she was trying to showcase them for the evil that they are.
	You'd be in jail.
	Yeah, I would be in jail.
	You definitely would be in jail.
	Well, if I were in Europe.
	Yeah.
	So let's apply this to the United States.
	And again...
	You know, you have the media with CNN and they were furious that they weren't allowed into Trump's impromptu press conference.
	He called it an impromptu press gaggle.
	And I talked about that Monday.
	Have a problem with it.
	I think CNN is incredibly biased, but as a conservative, I don't believe that we should be in the business of banning any voices.
	I want to see more.
	Rather than banning CNN or Politico or New York Times, I'd love to see Donald Trump keep them there and then include new voices.
	That's what I want to see.
	So I talked about that.
	I've tried to be consistent with that.
	But if CNN is going to complain about not being allowed into an impromptu press gaggle, If this were in the United States, let's apply what this were.
	Imagine that you, in 2015, committed an entirely legal act.
	You spoke out.
	You spoke out and you said something that was unpopular.
	It wasn't even racist, but it was based on something that actually happened, a news event that was offensive.
	Picture this.
	You did that in 2015.
	It's entirely legal.
	Today, because people don't like what you have to say, political opponents retroactively vote to make that illegal.
	And remove your ability to speak freely based on something you did in 2015.
	Pamela Geller would be in a jail cell before noon.
	Yes.
	And not the padded room that some would suggest.
	I actually like Pamela Geller.
	But when she appears on media, sometimes she's like, what?
	Yes.
	You know what I mean?
	You're like, whoa.
	Easy.
	Calm down, Pamela.
	Decaf.
	Decaf.
	You and Cuomo need to get in the same relaxation program.
	Yeah.
	Are you amazed that we haven't heard?
	No one's talking about this.
	I'm shocked because this is only a political hit job.
	So you can ask, the European Union can be asked to take away the immunity from anybody who's not performing parliamentary functions, right, if it's an illegal thing.
	That's what they did.
	They said this is not a parliamentary function that she was performing.
	By the way, parliament serves no function.
	We can take it.
	That's true.
	So I guess this is an oxymoron.
	Whatever.
	But anyway, she was voted on by political people that are opponents of hers.
	Of course she pissed all of them off.
	And of course they're like, well, we don't like you and this is a really easy way for us to get rid of you.
	She's arguing, though, that that was her fighting.
	All she was just showing is that this is what Islam is all about.
	This is what this group is about.
	And now she's paying the price.
	Well, I think they're thinking, hey, you know what?
	This broad could win this thing.
	That's what I think is really going on.
	Yeah, it just so happens that her numbers are going way up right now.
	Yeah, as a result of this.
	And they don't understand.
	It's like they're giving her a gift.
	Yeah.
	Like, listen, she is an abrasive person, Marie Le Pen.
	I think she's got a brass pair.
	And again, I don't agree with everything she does, but sometimes when she walked in with, was it the ambassador, the Iranian ambassador?
	Was she walking in and wanted her to wear a headscarf?
	She's walked in, and it wasn't even a second thought.
	She's like, no, I'm not wearing that.
	Yeah.
	You wear it.
	You wear it or you go home.
	Bye.
	I have an incredible amount of respect for that.
	I don't have to agree with her about everything.
	By the way, someone who can be, I'm not saying she's an abhorrent person at all.
	I'm saying someone, let's say you were to take someone who's like the worst racist in the world.
	It doesn't mean that they can't be right about something.
	And I'm not saying that Marie Le Pen is the worst racist in the world.
	I'm saying even if you don't agree with everything she has to say, she's not wrong about everything.
	And in this instance, there are lines in the sand for freedom of speech and for the left to constantly line up against it.
	You need to see what's happening in Europe.
	And here's what's so important about that.
	People say, well, that wouldn't happen in the States.
	But Bernie Sanders wants us to be like Europe.
	Nancy Pelosi wants us to be like Europe.
	Hillary Clinton wants us to be like Europe.
	And guess what?
	You cannot remove from that.
	You cannot extract from Europe just the socialism policies.
	You can't extract the fiscal authoritarianism while removing the free speech authoritarianism.
	You can't say, we want to be like Europe and talk about a 70% income tax rate or whatever it is, or talk about what's going on in Norway or talk about what's going on in Iceland.
	You cannot say that and then say, but you know what, we want to keep our freedom of speech.
	Europe as a whole, it's an ecosystem, and because of the economic authoritarianism, it has to rely on cultural authoritarianism.
	You can't take it.
	You can't buffet this thing.
	And that's one thing where a lot of people who are moving along the trail, like, I'm an anti-social justice warrior, but I like Bernie Sanders' socialism.
	This is where it leads always, always, you can find me zero historical examples of it not ending this way.
	And lots of people typically die, too.
	This is true.
	Lots of people typically die.
	Remember Bernie Sanders?
	Bread lines, when you think about them, are actually a good thing.
	No!
	No, they're not, Bernie.
	What do you mean?
	By the way, did you see Venezuela's down to like the last couple bucks?
	Yeah.
	That was in the news.
	And borrowed money.
	Yeah.
	Bernie Sanders looking at him going, Why don't you just bake up some more rye?
	Bernie.
	Speaking of things I hate about the press, let's move along.
	An alternative response to Trump's address to Congress on Tuesday.
	This is Making the Rounds.
	It's very popular because of Vox.
	It came from a Latino woman in Spanish talking about immigrants, talking about Donald Trump's racist policy against Mexicans.
	And no, by the way, we're not talking about the statement, the brilliant statement that Conan O'Brien made in broadcasting from Mexico.
	Donate.
	Huh?
	Ah?
	Look at that.
	I don't know what the point was.
	That doesn't show the whole story, by the way.
	They didn't show you what happened after the show when he was going back to his hotel.
	What happened between the show and the hotel.
	We usually have better Photoshop jobs.
	laughing laughter Even for us, I need to formally apologize.
	No, it was Dreamer and activist.
	Her name is Astrid Silva.
	Gave a response in Spanish on Telemundo and Univision.
	Two things I hate.
	As a Dreamer, she wrote this.
	And the left is healing this as a bold message for Latinos.
	She wrote, In this country, there is no space for discrimination, racial profiling, or persecution.
	But sadly, this is what the Trump administration has brought forth for Latino and immigrants.
	Does anyone want to take a crack as to why this is false?
	This is too easy, right?
	I feel like this is a trick question.
	It's not a trick question.
	It's not like common core math where it's like, what's two plus two?
	And you're like, it's 492, bitch!
	They're saying he's against Latinos and immigrants.
	Let's think for a second.
	Doesn't seem like Donald Trump hates immigrants because his wife is an immigrant and he has plenty of immigrants who are either married into his family or immigrants who he works with.
	He seems to have a lot of respect for immigrants.
	So let's think.
	If it's clear that he doesn't necessarily hate all immigrants, what is the problem that he has if he's talking about building a wall in immigration policy?
	Can anyone think about it?
	Send us your comments right now.
	Tweet me at S. Crowder.
	Could it be that there's some sort of a delineation, perhaps?
	I'm going to keep doing this until someone pipes up.
	Apparently Jared and Gerald are asleep.
	I'm going to take a stab.
	I'm going to take a stab.
	Riskier.
	I guess there's a delineation between legal and illegal immigrants.
	There you go.
	I waited so long and I knew the answer the whole time.
	It's science, bitch!
	It is remarkable.
	This is a sleight of hand you see from the left all the time.
	And they continue to do it.
	And people aren't buying it.
	Donald Trump hates immigrants.
	Here's the deal.
	Donald Trump came out and he made some comments about Mexicans at one point that were poorly worded.
	They're not said of their best.
	They're said of rapists.
	And it's like, ugh.
	Jeez.
	Okay, Don.
	And listen, I know Donald doesn't mean to say that all Mexicans are rapists and that's what they tried to run with.
	But it was poorly worded.
	Rather than jump on that, now they're going, he hates all immigrants.
	So they've squandered the lead that they had.
	Hold on a second.
	He clearly doesn't hate all immigrants.
	He just has a problem with illegal immigration.
	Hold on a second.
	I voted for Hillary, but...
	Yeah, I don't like that either.
	I don't like illegal immigration either.
	Is it me?
	Am I racist?
	You did Obama like six years ago.
	Six years ago.
	It is the fundamental delineation.
	And this is why you just throw it out.
	It's really easy to end this debate when this happens.
	You don't need to get into it unless you accept that there's a delineation between illegal and legal immigrants.
	Don't even engage in the discussion when someone says, well, Donald Trump hates immigrants.
	Or when they say, well, building a wall is anti-immigrant.
	Just say, no.
	Illegal immigrant.
	People aren't illegal.
	Okay.
	You prefer the word criminal?
	Criminal immigrant.
	Yes.
	That could work.
	That's what they say, right?
	They're like, people are not illegal.
	Acts are illegal.
	Okay.
	Illegal acts committed by a criminal.
	Well, you said this last time we were talking about it about a year ago.
	Not in Trump, but we were talking about it in general.
	You said, look, we're either a nation of laws or we're not.
	Right.
	One way or the other.
	Pick.
	Yeah.
	Pick.
	And while we're at it, while you pick, we found this public service video, children's video actually, which hopefully we'll be able to drill it into your noggins, exactly how to make the delineation between legal and illegal.
	I hope this is informative.
	I'm legal.
	And I'm illegal.
	I follow the law, respected the process, you see.
	I just came here illegally.
	To some, immigration is nuanced, almost subliminal.
	Don't look at me.
	I'm just a criminal.
	I work the skilled trade and pay legal taxes.
	I just came here to sell all the taxes.
	I came here on a work visa, then took my naturalization oath.
	One time, I killed a guy.
	It seems you're confused.
	Let's play a game.
	You ask if it's legal, then I will explain.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Paying state tax?
	Legal.
	Stealing cocaine?
	Illegal.
	Buying a TV?
	Legal.
	Stealing a TV?
	Illegal.
	Protesting the government?
	Legal.
	Killing a guy in the government?
	Illegal.
	Kidnapping you for racism?
	Illegal.
	Wait, what?
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	The mugclub is clinically proven to enhance the aroma and flavor of all beverages and soups by 64%.
	No more fat lips for you.
	You too can enjoy these clinically proven results as well as daily programming at louderwithcratter.com slash mugclub.
	No more fat lips.
	I didn't do the kata for this one because I feel like I've been educating people on the art of kata far too much.
	Actually, very excited to have this next guest because when I grew up and I was starting in comedy, I knew who he was and watched him with my brother back when MySpace was still a thing.
	You can follow him on Twitter at Owen Benjamin.
	He has the podcast, Why Didn't They Laugh?
	Good stuff and big fan.
	Owen Benjamin, thank you for being on the show, sir.
	Thanks for having me.
	I'm a fan of yours as well.
	Oh, don't say that because then I'll get a big head and this show will begin to suck.
	I'll be like not K. Jarrett at that point.
	People say, why are you still gainfully employed?
	I watched you back when you did the Fanny Pack song.
	We were just talking about this.
	First off, let me just...
	There's no way to...
	Off air.
	Okay, let's just talk about what happened.
	There's no way to...
	So we were preparing the shot, and Owen Benjamin was on the other side of Skype, and we're sitting there, and we see this black thing in his teeth.
	Now, it's not super clear.
	I have a small monitor, and my producer's going, is that food in his teeth?
	So for two minutes, we were trying to work around it.
	We're knocking Jared saying, hey, Owen, can you change the lighting?
	Back up with the camera a little bit?
	Because we weren't sure if he had a space in his teeth or it was food, and then finally we're Googling image searches.
	What?
	Does he have that space in his teeth?
	And I ask him, Owen, do you have any food in your teeth?
	Oh yeah, it was pizza.
	Hey, you guys are like, just for lighting, can you quickly get braces for four years?
	Can you go get your retainer for us and call us back in eight months?
	Well, good.
	That's one of your best features, too, your teeth.
	So look at that.
	Well, that worked out.
	Look at that.
	Yeah, look at that.
	Very healthy.
	How much would he have hated us if we let him do that, though?
	We're like best friends.
	I know.
	We got his back.
	Well, that's the challenge.
	And then all these dudes with...
	Spaces in their teeth come to my shows because I'm like the brave one and then they find out I don't really have one.
	Man, if he can do it, all of us can make it.
	It's kind of like redheads.
	And then they get to the end of the rainbow and they realize there's no pot of gold for you redheads.
	No.
	So, Owen...
	I found out you were tweeting me, and by the way, do you remember Tom Vrav?
	Did you ever do stand-up with him?
	He used to work in L.A. a bit.
	He was kind of doing open mics and coming up, and he was a big fan of yours, and like Kyle Dunnigan.
	Yeah, love Kyle Dunnigan.
	Yeah, so maybe you don't remember Tom, but I remember just, that was kind of an era.
	There was you, Kyle Dunnigan, gosh.
	I remember Tom.
	I totally remember Tom, yeah.
	Yeah, I wonder what happened to him.
	You remember those friends who were like, oh man, I wonder what happened to him.
	He was a funny guy.
	Most of them hate me now.
	That's just kind of the nature of comedy.
	A lot of people think, oh, comedians are silly, but the work ethic required for someone to reach your level of success in this industry, most of the people you've known in your career by this point have probably just dropped off and you're still there.
	That's a huge part of it.
	Yeah, it's almost like a mental optical illusion that you think everyone just keeps succeeding because you're only really paying attention to those people.
	If you just start thinking of all the funny people you've known and How few of them get to Madison Square Garden?
	It's pretty hilarious.
	This is true.
	Now, you've played the Garden?
	Is that what you're saying?
	No, I haven't.
	I'm one of the people that haven't.
	Okay.
	I did just do a tour in England with the Impractical Jokers, though, and I got to do 10,000-20,000 seaters, which is insane.
	Oh, wow.
	Now, that's your favorite show, right, Not Gay Jared?
	I loved the first season.
	The first season was really good.
	I felt like it got a little repetitive as it went on.
	Yeah.
	But it was really funny.
	Not Gay Jared and I had some disagreements on comedy.
	And some of the impractical Joker bits were some of them were the ones I thought were funny.
	He didn't find funny.
	And then also, the greatest crime against humanity, Not Gay Jared finds Jimmy Fallon funny.
	So I don't know how this happens.
	No way!
	What's going on, man?
	Hey, I'm Jimmy Fallon.
	Right?
	Right?
	Just shut up!
	I don't think he's funnier, but I think his show is more entertaining than, say, Kimmel's.
	I think it's more entertaining to watch than Kimmel's.
	Kimmel's gotten old to me.
	Yeah, I guess.
	I don't know.
	There's also Conan is still around, too.
	There are other programs.
	You're aware of this.
	It's non-binary.
	But we talked about Conan.
	Okay, so speaking of non-binary, sorry, we have a guest here.
	Owen Benjamin.
	So he was tweeting back and forth.
	You have been going after the Hollywood leftist elite on Twitter, and I just wasn't aware of it.
	You don't live in L.A. anymore, correct?
	You removed yourself from that situation.
	Yeah, because I had a baby and I just, it's just safer here and it's closer to family and I just, you know, I like it up here.
	But I always have been.
	I did a tweet a few years ago where I'm like, I came to LA a liberal and now I'm a conservative and none of my opinions changed.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	It's almost like an outrage Ponzi scheme that went to the point where like, I didn't relate because I was never really into politics.
	I just, I'm into free speech and You know, just stuff that makes America great.
	Stuff that makes my job possible.
	Right.
	And, you know, you're from Canada.
	I used to live in the Czech Republic.
	So it's like I think there's certain people that can see the outcome of government control to a ridiculous degree.
	Right.
	And it scares you a little bit.
	Like a comedian can be sued in Canada.
	Yes.
	Well, we had him on, Mike Ward.
	In the Czech Republic, you go into a store and they still don't.
	Understand, like, trying to sell things.
	Right.
	So, like, I've always been very wary of socialism and things like that.
	And then on the social front, I don't, you know, I love Thomas Sowell, the economist.
	Oh, yeah, sure.
	Yeah, Black Redneck White Liberals, one of my favorite books.
	And very conservative economist.
	And people called him racist, even though he's black from Harlem in 1930.
	Yeah.
	And I'm like...
	There's something wrong here, man.
	Like, you guys are, like, not right in the head anymore.
	Yeah, I mean, Harlem, back then, we always say this about Ben Carson, like, he's playing pro ball for the black team.
	He's not in the minor pros.
	He's not B-League, right?
	Harlem, kind of like Ben Carson.
	He was from Detroit, single mother, and tried to stab her, but she was saved by her belt buckle.
	This guy has a black experience, you know?
	But for some reason, they don't apply it because of their opinions.
	Right, same with Clarence Thomas.
	Got, like, massacred by Ted Kennedy and a bunch of other quote-unquote privileged white liberals because, you know...
	And his grandfather was like a sharecropper.
	You know, it's like...
	I just don't understand...
	Like, I started seeing...
	And my parents are professors, but they were from, like...
	You know, they taught at, like, Jesuit colleges and stuff, so they had that, like, moral background that I think a lot of professors don't currently have.
	And...
	They don't know what to make of all of it either.
	They're like, I call them liberals, like it ends in a question mark.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	It's like, is that because they don't relate anymore to the party.
	They don't relate that every minority is a victim just for existing, that the Constitution doesn't matter, that censorship is good if it hurts people's feelings.
	You know, I was doing a bit about how a lot of the progressives, I call them indoor cats, and I do this long bit about it, and I started realizing, at first, it was fine.
	Hollywood laughed, and then it got to the point where it became almost political, and I'm like, no, this is about culture.
	Our culture can't become this monster of no one can speak, and everyone's judged based on what victim group they're in.
	And so that's why I just can't call myself a liberal.
	And that's what's crazy about the entertainment industry.
	Think about it, right?
	Until, like, hashtag Oscars so white.
	As a general rule, comedy and the entertainment industry is a pretty good example of a meritocracy.
	If you're the best comedian, you tend to do better.
	actors, and then now they're going, "Oh, crap.
	We gotta give the award to the gay black midget, otherwise there's gonna be a march." And it's changed.
	And the thing is for me, I was talking with Nick DiPaolo about this, I think a lot of comedians who were successful from that generation were, you know, Lenny Bruce, liberal, Bill Hicks, liberal, but free speech advocates.
	So they still think in the clubs they're They're like, no, no.
	In stand-up, it's still a bastion of free speech.
	I'm going, you don't live in the world today where the people who paved the way weren't Lenny Bruce or Bill Hicks.
	It's Amy Schumer and it's Sarah Silverman who are now closing the door behind them for free speech.
	That's why people are going online.
	And stand-up is sort of becoming the PC brigade, if you look at people at the top.
	I totally agree.
	And it's like, I don't think anyone can say what's funny.
	You know, where it's like, oh, that's not funny.
	It's like, I'll show you a thousand people laughing.
	Like, it's not funny to you.
	And I don't think people have the right to do that.
	And a lot of these PC brigade upper echelon people used to be free speech, and now they're shifting.
	And that's what I'm like, the way that a lot of them...
	Like, I used to love Sarah Silverman when she would be very irreverent and very, you know, she'd talk about how...
	You know, just her irreverent jokes.
	I remember she talked about the, like, Christian Children's Fund, like those sort of Save African Children, and she was like, oh my god, who's allowing these kids to get pregnant?
	Because they all had, like, the bellies.
	And everyone was like, oh!
	She was cringe, shock humor, and now she's mad at people simply for voting Donald Trump, claiming it's hate speech.
	I just, I can't get my mind around it.
	That's another thing that got to me.
	It's like, people would rather overthrow the government than have a president they don't agree with.
	Like, that to me is shocking.
	Yeah.
	You know, and I'm like, you can not like Trump, but just realize he was democratically elected, you know, and you just got to go with that.
	And it's just, they started talking very scary to me.
	And that's why I don't really, I'm not going to pretend I agree with any of those things.
	Well, have you been shunned since you've, because I know you say you've always sort of had these views, but you've become more outspoken about them, certainly on social media.
	Was it one of those things for you?
	For me, this is what happened.
	I was always this way.
	And I found out pretty quickly, If people find out at all about my views, I mean, I had a manager drop me.
	I had an agent drop me.
	I had publicists who wouldn't touch it once they saw some of the things that I had said.
	I said, you know what?
	I've got to run with this because I can't put that genie back in a bottle.
	Is that what happened with you?
	And do you feel that you've had some friends or people who you consider open-minded who've shunned you since they found out about your views?
	Yeah, for me, it was being on Sullivan& Son on TBS because it was produced by Vince Vaughn and starring Steve Byrne.
	Roy Wood Jr., Ahmed Ahmed, all these people.
	And it was so multicultural, but not in that left victim-y way.
	Right.
	And we got no love from like...
	And we're the number one show on TBS when it was on.
	And there was, you know, media didn't get behind it.
	They didn't talk about the triumph of a Korean star.
	Wait, is that number one outside of Tyler Perry?
	Is it kind of like the Bible's always the number one bestseller, so they don't even include it on the list anymore?
	Or were you beating Tyler Perry's Madea Goes Boo?
	Oh, that's hilarious.
	No, well, that's the thing.
	We didn't have much going against us.
	We had the reruns of Big Bang, but...
	Oh, okay.
	Oh, don't get nominated.
	Sorry.
	He hates the Big Bang Theory.
	Don't, let's just, Jared, we'll talk about that another time.
	The guest doesn't have that much time.
	And so I just saw that it was hypocritical, and I got into comedy because I'm not good at lying.
	Like, I'm just, it's not in my nature to kind of pretend I'm something I'm not, and I still don't really consider myself very political.
	I just can't agree with this whole identity politics and limiting of free speech and all this stuff that I have so much pride in being American for.
	Wait, white pride?
	Did I just hear white pride?
	You cis white male!
	I love being white.
	When cops pull me over, they just high-five me.
	I know.
	For me, they just give me dumplings.
	Let's say they stole off an Asian who they shook down earlier.
	I'm like, what are you doing?
	This is fantastic!
	They give me their gun.
	It's great.
	Yeah, I know.
	That was one thing that really upset my dad.
	How long did you spend, what portion of your life, in the Czech Republic?
	I was there for a year 1999.
	Oh, okay.
	Now, are your parents from there?
	No, I was a World War II history major, and I really wanted to study history there.
	I thought he was an immigrant here.
	I was like, oh, really?
	I didn't know about that one, Benjamin.
	Oh, no, not at all.
	I just went there and lived there, and just being in that environment, I realized that government control is not good.
	Well, speaking of third world countries, my dad was raised in Detroit.
	So for him, he got so pissed when Bernie Sanders said, you know, that white people can't really know what it's like to struggle.
	And he was there, divorced family.
	You know, his dad was in the military.
	So not a wealthy family by any means.
	In Detroit proper, by the way.
	In the area that people like to claim they're from.
	He was actually inside of 8 Mile in Detroit proper.
	And divorced family, was part of the racial integration busing system, got his ass kicked.
	Yeah, do I think that maybe I've enjoyed some advantages that other people haven't?
	You can attribute it to being white, maybe.
	But I also think that other people have had privileges that I haven't had being raised to a divorced family in inner-city Detroit in a lower-middle-class household.
	It's called life, and he got so mad about that.
	But it seems that even people his age, when he talks with his friends who are black, they feel the same way.
	It's like, welcome to the world, population, earth, plus you now, once you understand it.
	Yeah.
	My mother's father was a lead miner with seven fingers.
	And she was one of the first people to go to college from her town.
	You know, it's like, and that's why I love Thomas Sowell.
	You'd love this book, Black Redneck.
	Oh, yeah.
	I've read it.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	Where it's about how life just isn't fair sometimes.
	And it's more about culture than it is race.
	In fact, race is almost no factor.
	Like, you know, Nigerian Americans make more than Caucasian Americans.
	It's about a certain type of Culture that doesn't value education, promotes violence, promotes, you know, inciting.
	Well, it's also because I sent their prints all that money.
	What's that?
	It's also because I sent their prints all that money.
	So there's some trickle down.
	That's a good point.
	You tricked me too.
	Yeah, I know.
	Remember that one?
	That was new.
	It was like we all had email.
	I'm like, oh my gosh, someone sent me an email.
	And you're like, oh wow, this is kind of like a pen pal.
	No one wants to admit it.
	But when it first started, all of us probably almost fell for at least one of them.
	Dude, I almost fell for it like a month ago.
	Right.
	Or you're forwarding that picture like, have you seen this dog on steroids?
	You're like, no, that's clearly a Photoshop.
	I know.
	I remember it with MySpace.
	You know, it's funny.
	Back then, I remember a lot of comedians got really mad.
	I had been doing stand-up for...
	Six months.
	But I was doing stand-up.
	I did my first open mic.
	Within three months, I was doing an hour.
	Now, not a good hour.
	What happened was someone asked me to co-host a talent show at a university with them in Montreal, or a college, sorry.
	And I said, okay.
	And I did well enough there that the guy who booked the colleges said, hey, how come I never heard of you?
	You headline around here?
	And I said, yes.
	And he said, okay, come back and do 40 minutes in a month.
	And then when I got that, I booked about four or five different colleges within that week because I said, well, I'm doing Dawson College.
	They're having me do 45 minutes.
	And I play them off one another.
	So I got a lot of experience really quickly.
	I mean, think about, you know, doing five one-hour shows in the span of two weeks.
	Most people starting out don't get that kind of experience for years because you're scraping together five-minute clips.
	So this is before MySpace.
	I put my stuff up on MySpace, and a talent scout had no idea who I was.
	Said, hey, do you want to audition for the Just for Laughs?
	And I did, and I got in.
	And I remember comedians being so pissed.
	And again, I remember just as a conservative thinking, like, well, isn't this good?
	Doesn't this mean that you can get in next year?
	It doesn't matter how long you've been doing it?
	And instead, they were mad.
	Yeah, it's like this zero-sum game mentality that, like, it's almost like the race to the bottom type thing, where it's...
	You almost latch on to the least talented people because it makes you feel better about yourself.
	I always liked friends that were very successful and did well because I fed off that energy.
	I just don't relate to that quote-unquote progressive.
	It's not progressive.
	It is regressive.
	It's gotten to a point where it just doesn't make sense anymore.
	That will probably affect My career, even just leaving affects your career.
	Just being like, I have a family.
	I want to raise my family near my family.
	But I don't really care.
	You know, I make money on the road.
	I've got a book.
	I'm writing a book.
	I do podcasts.
	It's all about family.
	Let us know when your book comes out.
	And speaking of having people who elevate you, I need to reevaluate why I let Not Gay Jared hang around in this show.
	Do something with your life.
	Good lord, Not Gay Jared.
	It's true.
	It really is true.
	And there was at one point, and I felt this way.
	I don't know if you felt this way.
	It was hard for you leaving Los Angeles.
	And I think it's a smart decision, raising a family, getting out of the intolerance.
	But a big part of stand-up comedians, their identity is in stand-up.
	And so there's this hierarchy like, man, if you're not on the road grinding out with clubs, whereas most of them would rather be Bill Burr doing giant theaters, not having to do that, or have a career like you have, where you have a sustainable audience.
	But there's this idea that unless you're sticking, this is the only pure form of entertainment.
	And I think that's changing a lot.
	Like you said, you can do podcasts.
	You can do things online.
	Yeah.
	I don't have club bookers or show bookers with stand-up.
	It has become so vanilla to me when I tune into a comedy showcase on television.
	I can almost...
	If there's going to be a political joke, I can tell you exactly what it's going to be, and I can tell you which subjects they'll touch on to be politically incorrect while avoiding the real subjects they're not allowed to talk about.
	Is it just me when I watch those?
	No, you're 100%.
	100%.
	And conservatives seem to understand business better when it comes to that's a disadvantage in business.
	Anytime you're not going for funny as possible, that means there is a market opening up because you're not trying to be funny.
	You're trying to appease some overlord, you know?
	Right.
	So that's why I don't mind appealing to the audience that I want to appeal to and then just finding...
	The shows that I can get.
	It actually pays better sometimes.
	Yeah, it does.
	Once you free yourself from the ego of like, yeah, but if I leave L.A., I don't have all the cool kids.
	You know what I mean?
	There is that part, I think, for a lot of people that's really hard to do just to get out of it.
	It's like the mob.
	I know, but the weird thing is, though, is the good ones are still my boys.
	Right.
	And you tell who your friends are by that, where it doesn't really...
	Okay, here's a perfect example.
	Your ability of debate, like, I don't want to blow up your head, but my dad teaches debate.
	Like, he's a rhetoric professor.
	And it's like, you're just crushing.
	Like, I listened to you with Michael Ian Black, and I'm like, any moderator knows he, like, Stephen won.
	Like, there isn't even a debate.
	And I'm like, I always thought the left was the one that had, like, No, and with Michael Ian Black, I will say it got more heated than I would like, and we'll have him back on the show.
	But, you know, I really honestly, if you want to talk about debate, look to someone like Ben Shapiro.
	He's amazingly skilled.
	For sure.
	I genuinely, not gay Jared knows this, when we have someone on who I disagree with, I do research to see what their views are, and I genuinely try and conduct a debate.
	First off, the rule is, not gay Jared's not allowed to jump in at all.
	No one else.
	It's not fair to doggy pile, that's my rule.
	He can't bring up something for me and research it, you know, and be my never-ending assistant.
	It just is me and that person.
	And I genuinely am trying to get to the truth, because if I'm wrong, I want to know it.
	And if you listen to some of our debates, there's been some common ground that could be found, but not with, like, Christopher Titus, you know, where it was the gun debate, and he's like, why don't you care about dead kids?
	Or Michael Ian Black going, isn't one rape too many?
	One rape is rape culture.
	Like, that's not the same thing.
	It's the worst possible straw man you can possibly do, where it's like, that's why I'm having a hard time with that side, because it's like, it's almost like they're not trying to learn, they're trying to win.
	Right.
	And I want to go into a debate where if someone makes a great point, it's like, oh, wow, thank you for clearing that up.
	Right.
	Like, I was making a horrible mistake.
	Yes.
	I was wrong.
	You're correct.
	I might be a homosexual.
	Thank you for making me aware of this.
	Yeah, like, I didn't know that those stats were the stats.
	Like, I thought one in five women really were raped on college.
	Really?
	Oh, perfect one.
	Perfect one is wage gap.
	I really thought that wage gap.
	And just like a bunch of people thought that.
	And then when you actually break it down, there is no wage gap.
	That isn't factoring in Having children.
	And like, child rearing.
	And like, that's so intellectually honest.
	And choice of career.
	Yeah, here's the thing.
	And then we do have to go.
	I'll have to bring you back.
	But here's something that for me, that's the start of the issue, right?
	I found out, okay, wage gap is a myth.
	So for me, that's where it starts me on the trail going, but I've heard Barack Obama, our sitting president at the time, trot this out.
	Does he not have access to Google?
	Exactly.
	Or is he lying?
	That's what got me paranoid.
	Yeah.
	You know, I'm like, do they knowingly do this?
	Because my motto is I might be wrong, but I'm not lying.
	And I'm like, if he knew it and did that, that's such divisive, evil stuff.
	And it's one thing if you don't know, but it's like, you know, you see Thomas Sowell in 1984 hashing out these issues, and it's like, how does he not know that that's not real?
	It's kind of like the gun thing not involving suicides, where it's like, you know that.
	Like, you're inflating this number on, like when someone says X amount of gun deaths a year, and they don't include the fact that It's half suicides.
	Right.
	That's intellectually dishonest.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	And then they compare gun crime rates across countries and not crime rates.
	And it's like, well, listen, obviously if guns are more accessible in a country that has allowed firearms, they're going to be used to carry out more crimes.
	But that doesn't mean that the crime rate is worse or the homicide rate is worse.
	Right.
	Especially when you eliminate gang violence, because, listen, we have different cultures in the United States.
	It's not the same as Iceland that has half the population of Rhode Island and is entirely homogenous.
	You can't really compare them, despite what Bernie Sanders says.
	Anyways, I could go on all day.
	Owen Benjamin, at Owen Benjamin on Twitter.
	Where's the best, what's the best stuff for people to find on you?
	My website is hugepianist.com.
	That's where my touring schedule is, and I'm in Vancouver.com.
	Next week, and I'm all over the place, so hit that up, because I'm tall and I play piano.
	So make sure you spell it right, though, or else it's a weird...
	Yeah, otherwise it takes you to a site, and that is not Owen Benjamin.
	Hugepianist.com, as I think many Americans say, pianist, but we haven't spent a year in the Czech Republic, so we're not as cultured.
	At Owen Benjamin, thank you so much, brother.
	We'll have you back, and we have to be back after this.
	Stay tuned.
	Nice for having me.
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	But I did live through the Montreal ice storms where many people died, where we were out of power.
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	We'll be back after this.
	Jordan Peterson.
	Jordan Peterson.
	That's the ancient art of Kata.
	I've been teaching you about that this week because this is a multicultural show.
	So you do this...
	And then proceed to get your ass kicked.
	Our guest is at Jordan B. Peterson, Dr.
	Peterson.
	He has been in the program before, and so many accolades we could toss here.
	I guess the public awareness has gone up like a rocket ship since we last had you on.
	Dr.
	Peterson, what's that like for you?
	Now you're notorious.
	Well, it's busy.
	I mean, it's interesting.
	I'm not exactly sure what to make of it.
	One...
	One thing that has happened, though, is that I now get up at five in the morning and start working, because in order to keep up with this at the moment, that was pretty much what I had to do.
	I'm a curious person, and a lot of people have probably already figured that out.
	I don't mean that I'm curious in the eccentric way, I mean that I'm curious about things, and so I'm very curious about this.
	It certainly wasn't something I expected.
	Although I have to tell you that I've been amazed for decades that I've been allowed to teach what I do teach at the university and that no one's ever noticed and stopped me from doing it.
	So the fact that attention has been brought to it, in some sense, I suppose doesn't come as a surprise.
	But I'm happy about the opportunities that it's bringing me.
	And I do like to teach people.
	And so the fact that now I can make a video and reliably attract 50,000 viewers is amazing.
	Great, as far as I'm concerned.
	It's like, why not?
	I'm hoping that I can teach people about psychology, and now I can.
	So, hooray!
	And it's remarkable that, you know, in the age of sort of the Kardashians and the reality star sort of generation, as we call it, you skyrocketed to public awareness really through telling the truth, which has sort of become the counterculture.
	I know you're going to be doing a series.
	Will it be an online series on...
	Well, I plan to do it.
	The plan at the moment is to rent a theatre on the University of Toronto campus, and I'd like to do a lecture every week for as long as it takes.
	It might be a number of years, but the first plan is for 25 weeks.
	I've wanted to walk my way through the Bible from a psychological perspective.
	I've been thinking about it for a decade.
	I talked to a TV producer here who I've worked with for a very long time who was interested in that.
	Mel Gibson?
	Yes, Mel, exactly.
	Thank you very much for that.
	Just figured we'd end your career right now, just dead on arrival.
	Yeah, so I mean, I've spent a lot of time on many of the ancient stories in the Bible, trying to understand what they mean from a psychological perspective, and this would certainly provide me with the necessity for doing that.
	My life is structured so, and I think this is true for many people, so that unless I have a deadline and an absolute necessity for doing something, the probability that it will fall off my list of priorities is very high.
	So now I know that if I make this series, then I can get tens of thousands of people.
	I know that there are tens of thousands of people who would be We're engaging with it online, and it just seems foolish not to do it.
	So, yeah, that's the plan.
	Well, I do have a lot of respect for you in this area, because obviously with, you know, sort of fighting social justice warriors, as they're called, has become somewhat popular now, and it's kind of accepted because they're so absurd, right?
	People, they love to make them a whipping post.
	And appropriately so, by the way.
	I think it's a perfect whipping post to people who are social justice warriors.
	However, a lot of these people who are coming along this sort of political-cultural trail, I've noticed, were previously part of this sort of leftist-atheist coalition.
	So it's still immensely unpopular to be someone whose faith really is a big part of what defines them as a human.
	And you were on Sam Harris's podcast, and that was one that really sort of went back and forth.
	I was surprised as to how roundabout he went with you a little bit, for someone who's usually very, very clear in his thoughtful approach.
	What was the reaction to that, and have you had more atheists upset, saying, well, I used to respect you until I found out you believe in the flying spaghetti monster, which we all get, or have you found more of them interested in what you have to say and wanting to learn about it?
	Well, I would say certainly that one of the consequences of appearing on Sam's show was that more people were attracted to watch my videos.
	And so I have had responses from people that are of the sort that you described who said, well, I am pleased with Dr.
	Peterson's political stance, but when he starts talking about the intersection between religion and psychology, then I just tune out.
	But that's fine with me.
	I actually don't...
	It doesn't...
	It isn't...
	I'm not trying to convince people.
	It's up to people to think whatever they want, and if they don't find what I'm saying convincing or interesting, then that's perfectly fine.
	I'm also not claiming that what I'm saying is correct, because what I'm trying to talk about is insanely complicated, which is partly why I wanted to talk to Sam Harris about it.
	I mean, the thing about Harris is that he has...
	He has concentrated on many of the same problems that have bothered me and has actually come to similar conclusions, but for very different reasons.
	And I thought we could have an interesting conversation about that, because he does believe that people have a primary moral obligation to speak the truth, and that he also believes that one of the primary moral obligations that characterize human beings, let's say, Is that they should try to work to mitigate unnecessary suffering, which is also something that I agree with.
	But I think the problem with his approach is that it is, I don't think that what he's promoting is grounded deeply enough to have the kind of power that's necessary to make it It manifests itself properly.
	And I also think that Harris and Dawkins, it's quite funny because they just talked to each other very recently.
	Harris put Dawkins on the spot by suggesting that there may have been evolutionary reasons for the selection of religious ideation.
	And I actually happen to believe that.
	And I think that both Harris and Dawkins, and this is mostly at Dawkins' feet, has never taken the...
	The fact of the prevalence of religious thinking with the sort of seriousness that an evolutionary biologist should...
	That's interesting.
	Because religious thinking is a human universal.
	Sure.
	And not only that, it's how we thought, it's how all of us thought all the time, roughly speaking, before the scientific method was invented.
	And so for the vast majority of our evolutionary history, The essential way that we oriented ourselves in the world was indistinguishable from the religious, and it worked.
	Right.
	Because here we are, after all.
	And we're also fascinated, most psychologists, with sort of these evolutionary psychological coping mechanisms.
	And so I would imagine that an atheist might sort of toss that out, maybe as a smokescreen, that, well, it's a coping mechanism for what we don't understand in the physical world.
	Sure.
	Well, that's what Freud said, roughly speaking.
	Right, but it's interesting that, like you said, sort of the most prominent atheist thinkers, or certainly speakers, I don't know if we'd call them philosophers, I don't know the proper terminology necessarily, it's interesting that they really don't touch upon that a whole lot.
	I mean, I've read Dawkins, I've listened to Harris quite a bit, and it surprises people, often being a Christian.
	And I do think that you're part of, I would say, sort of a new wave where I think that a big reason for this culturally is there was Sam Harris, there was Richard Dawkins, and then there were people out there who would just say crazy outlandish things on behalf of Christianity.
	And I don't know if that's because atheists sort of kept people like you from the podium, or it's just that the craziest Christians sometimes grabbed the podium.
	But this thoughtful professorial approach, which really was the norm in Christianity, if you go back to, you know, C.S. Lewis or Chesterton, right?
	This is not a new way of thinking.
	But it certainly has been absent for the last several decades.
	And it seems like you're part of a new wave who might usher in a new era of critical thinking for Christians to discuss with atheists alike.
	Do you feel like you're a part of that?
	Well, that would be lovely, I would say, because it's certainly something that I'm interested in.
	I mean, I think that there's a very profound discussion that has to be had between evolutionary biologists and psychologists and people with, well, with people of deep and profound religious faith.
	I think the evidence that There are elements of religious phenomenology that are rooted in our biology as absolutely overwhelming.
	So, for example, you can reliably induce experiences that people characterize as religious with hallucinogens like psilocybin.
	And extraordinarily well-documented evidence of that, particularly in recent years coming from Johns Hopkins, a very reliable and conservative medical...
	A hate group, to hear Jess Herbst's Transgender Mays of New Hope refer to it, Johns Hopkins, a hate group.
	Not real doctors, we were told.
	Only a hate group.
	But the researchers there have shown that People who are given psilocybin, for example, a very large majority of them report extraordinarily powerful mystical experiences that they regard as among the most important of their life, and not only that, that those experiences have a profound and lasting impact on their personality.
	Now, I'm not necessarily certain that More traditional religious people are going to be very thrilled with the idea that some of this kind of, at least the mystical end of this experience, can be induced with psychedelic drugs, for example.
	Can be induced with what Not Gay Jared does at a nightclub on a Friday night.
	They're not going to be thrilled.
	Right, right.
	But the anthropological evidence is clear, you know, that people have been inducing these sorts of experiences.
	And investigating the technologies to do so for tens of thousands of years, and perhaps for longer than that.
	So it's not something that can be ignored.
	It's something terrifying, to be sure.
	Right.
	Because it's terrifying, the idea that a spiritual experience can genuinely be induced, or perhaps not genuinely, depending on how you look at it, but can be induced reliably with a chemical is certainly terrifying.
	It could give credence to all those druggies who are like, man, just drop acid.
	That's how you reach the higher level.
	And then a cult starts, and Leia Remedy has a reality show.
	Let me ask you this.
	You're going to be talking about this in your class, going through the Bible stories.
	An atheist here on Twitter, I don't have it up in front of me, specifically asked, said your views on these were fascinating, and he really liked listening to you discuss these subjects.
	So if you're going to go through these stories...
	For example, I don't know if you go through Daniel in the lion's den through the New Testament.
	I don't know if you go through Genesis.
	I don't know exactly what it is.
	I'll be interested to see when this course takes place.
	Do you look at most of them literally?
	Do you look at most of them metaphorically?
	Or do you not touch that at all?
	You just look at it from a modern psychological perspective?
	No, no, that's a really good question.
	Well, look, when I was a kid, when I was first in university, I had the opportunity to go out to the Edmonton Maximum Security Prison a couple of times with this very eccentric psychologist who taught a course on creativity at the University of Alberta.
	One moment, who could possibly be sentenced to a maximum security prison in Edmonton?
	What did they do wrong?
	They collected them from many places across Canada, and there were plenty of guys in there that you would not want to meet in a dark alley, or even in a well-lit space if you were surrounded by policemen.
	Right, okay.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So anyways, one of the things that he said in his class was that fiction tells you the truth by lying.
	Okay.
	Well, so let's just think about that for a minute.
	So you think about an author like Tolstoy or Dostoevsky, great authors, or Shakespeare for that matter.
	And they invent fictional characters, and obviously you can't take a fictional story literally.
	Right.
	Okay, but that doesn't mean that there isn't truth in fictional stories.
	In fact, good fictional story, imagine that it takes you six hours to read a powerful piece of fiction.
	And then compare what you've learned about the world from that to just living your normal life for six hours.
	Right.
	What the novelist is doing is distilling what's essential from normal life and presenting it in a condensed manner.
	Okay, so imagine something like this.
	This is obviously a metaphor to some degree.
	So imagine that a literary genius watches a hundred people.
	And then distills what he has learned from watching those hundred people into one character in a manner you can digest in six hours.
	So it's condensed and distilled wisdom.
	Right.
	Okay, now imagine that you have a hundred authors like that, and you take all of their books, and you distill those books into ten books.
	Okay.
	Well, then you have the Bible.
	Oh, I see what you did there.
	You brought it full circle.
	And I do think it's important to delineate that there are some, I mean, Jesus spoke in parables, for example.
	By definition, that is fiction.
	You know, you can compare it to modern Aesop fable, but there is a case to be made, I certainly believe this, for Jesus Christ as a historical figure, and I would not consider the New Testament fiction.
	And that's one issue where it's very hard to discuss with atheists, you know, oh, flying spaghetti monster.
	But I came to this, I was raised in a Christian household, but at a certain point, people say, were you born a Christian?
	No one is born a Christian.
	Yep.
	reading from, you know, reading, you know, Tacitus, Josephus, Justin Martyr, looking, you know, Tertullian, all of these arguments, you know, obviously the empty tomb, that's an argument that is kind of one that has to be accounted for.
	I looked at it from a logical perspective and said, okay, what are the odds of this occurring?
	This is the historical evidence we have for Christ as a historical figure.
	And then I will tell you, as someone who likes to think of themselves as logical, what's the gamble on this being an act of chance?
	And so I think it is important for people, and I think a lot of atheists don't get this, there are some things that are literal.
	There are some areas where it's a historical document in the Bible.
	And as you're saying, sometimes this is meant to be taken as a morality tale.
	Yeah, look, I mean, the Bible is an extraordinarily complicated document, and it is a strange mix of history and mythology.
	And separating one from the other is no straightforward thing.
	And you probably hit on the most crucial issue there with regards to the, let's call it, the empirical reality of the resurrection of Christ.
	Now, The first thing I have to say about that is that I do not understand it well enough to have a proper opinion about it.
	And what I mean by a proper opinion is that I don't understand it.
	One of the things that's very interesting about the story of Christ is that it is heavily mythologized, and on multiple levels.
	So for example, there's a cosmology that's associated with Christ.
	So Christ is the son, I mean the literal son in the cosmology, and there's 12 disciples because each of the disciples represents an astrological house.
	The thing that's so interesting about the story of Christ is that it can be retold at multiple levels of analysis and has been, and those have all been integrated into something that all says the same thing.
	Now, that leaves open the issue of the relationship between the historical reality and the archetype and the mythology.
	For example, it's quite obvious that many of the elements of Christ's life, the way that it's presented in the New Testament, have Right.
	Right.
	And who is also represented quite frequently as an infant sitting on the lap of Isis, his mother, in the same way that Christ is represented sitting on the lap of Mary.
	So there are these historical parallels, and they're deep and profound.
	And one way of reading them is that that's just evidence that the entire story is a variation of a myth.
	Right.
	That's what I was taught by Helen Holt in my mythology course at university.
	Well, not university, actually college.
	Champlain College.
	And I remember asking her, saying, okay, well, hold on a second.
	How many of them...
	We're a human sacrifice, rose from the dead, and made the claim that they are the only way to salvation.
	She said, well, that's different.
	I said, okay.
	Now, how many historical accounts for them saw political figures and very powerful historical figures arguing tales of corruption?
	Well, actually, the disciples...
	Stole his body from the tomb.
	I mean, there are historical accounts of this.
	For me, when I look, I'm going, well, why are they arguing this?
	If you see these historical accounts, they should just trot out Christ's body.
	But they felt the need because there was enough, at least, public pressure, if not evidence.
	People believed in this idea of an empty tomb.
	They were arguing from that premise, saying, no, no, no, this is why there's an empty tomb.
	And that, to me, was so compelling for the historical case.
	Because the easiest thing would be to say, there is no empty tomb.
	It's bullshit.
	But they didn't.
	Right, right.
	Right.
	Sorry, this is personal opinion, but you're the scholar.
	The issue for me in relationship to that is twofold.
	The first thing is that that's a problem that I'm actively working on trying to understand, and I hope to do a lot more of that over the next three or four years because it's an extraordinarily deep problem.
	I would also say that I've understood it in large part in a manner that was offered to me by my understanding of Carl Jung.
	And so Jung said, so imagine, I made a case that you can think about the Bible as a form of extraordinarily distilled fiction, and fiction in the best sense, in that fiction is a kind of abstraction.
	From reality, like mathematics is a kind of abstraction from reality.
	And you might say, well, are numbers real?
	And one answer to that is no.
	And the other answer is, yeah, they're more real than anything else.
	And you can make a very strong case for both of those viewpoints because they're not real the same way like a cup is real, but they're real in the way that allows you to make atom bombs.
	I love, by the way, that a doctor has a solo cup.
	You'd expect a mug and a very distinguished pen.
	It's the thing you use to play beer pong.
	I have my Louder with Crowder mug at home and use it frequently.
	Well, thank you very much.
	I'm glad that you do.
	It enhances the aroma and flavor of beverages by scientifically noted 24%.
	So we're very proud of that.
	Oh, that's impressive.
	Yes, yes.
	I figured it was a doctor that would impress you.
	I mean, we could talk about this forever, but sorry, we only have a few minutes, so I'll let you have the floor.
	Okay, well, so I'll just say one final thing, and this is part of the mystery for me.
	So, just as...
	You can think of the Bible as a distillation of fiction, although that's not all it is.
	You can think of the idea of the Savior or the Redeemer or the idea of Christ as a distillation of what could be the best of humanity.
	And that's sort of reflected in the idea of the King of Kings.
	So imagine this.
	This is what's happened over the course of history.
	Again, it's a metaphor, but it'll do to approach the topic.
	So imagine that you took a hundred people and you derived the best elements from them and you distilled those into ten people.
	Those would be admirable heroes.
	Right.
	And you could think of them as a kind of aristocracy.
	Sure.
	And then imagine that you took ten admirable heroes and distilled them into a king.
	And then you took ten kings and you distilled that into a meta-king.
	That would be Christ.
	That's exactly what happened.
	This is speaking strictly from a conceptual perspective.
	I'm trying to understand a kind of abstraction.
	You could say that what's happened across history is that humanity has attempted to produce the vision, a vision of the perfect man.
	And the perfect man would be everything admirable about a human being distilled into a single entity.
	Mm-hmm.
	Now, you can see that playing out in the story of the Christian Passion, because the central element, let's look at it this way.
	Human beings have to bear a cross.
	Well, what's the cross?
	The cross is the burden of being alive and the knowledge of their own mortality and fragility.
	And you can either bear that honorably or dishonorably.
	And if you bear it honorably, then you do it by telling the truth and living a forthright life and aiming at the best.
	And those are all things that are characteristic of the Christ that we know from the Gospels.
	But then, to make that a truly archetypal story, you have to magnify it to its ultimate degree.
	And so that's also what's happened in the Christian story, because you have the perfect man, who's innocent of all things, so that's sinless, who is betrayed by his friends, which is the worst thing that can happen to you socially, And who's then subject to torture and death reserved for a criminal.
	So it's the most unjust possible sequence of things happening to the best possible person.
	That's what makes it archetypal.
	You can't tell a more meaningful story than that.
	It's a limit.
	The worst thing happens to the best person.
	It's a limit.
	You can't go beyond it.
	And so that's what that story portrays.
	So there's a deep...
	There's a deep reality to it.
	Again, I'm speaking purely conceptually.
	But what Carl Jung pointed out, and I really like this idea, is that...
	So imagine that that idea is an archetypal concept.
	It's the ideal to which you should aspire.
	And then it's formulated as an implementable ideal.
	Now, that's what you manifest if you're a follower of Christ, say, in the truest sense, or maybe if you're a follower of the Buddha.
	Now, then you can imagine that across history there are people who more or less embody that archetype.
	And the people who embody it to virtually no degree are uninteresting or reprehensible.
	They're just scoundrels.
	Yes, or feminists.
	But then and now and then someone comes along who really partially embodies that archetype, who really is a manifestation of something approaching the ideal.
	And then now and then someone comes along who really closely matches that ideal.
	Well, Steven Seagal claims that he's the Dalai Lama incarnate.
	So there's that.
	Oh, I didn't know that.
	Yeah, well, it's Steven Seagal.
	He's a retard.
	So it is interesting.
	It is interesting.
	He does claim that.
	It's a hell of a thing to call someone who's the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama.
	Yes, it would be if that were the case.
	I could talk about this all day, and maybe we'll do an extended version.
	We do have other topics to get to, and of course we have several guests today.
	I do find all that interesting conceptually.
	And then, you know, for me, when it comes down to, you know, people aren't willing to live their life or end their life for merely a concept.
	So again, the historical context, and actually Gerald, it would be interesting if we had him here for the interview.
	He had to go to the restroom.
	Yeah.
	When you look at people who are persecuting Christians and then willing to die for something in that lifetime, that's a rarity.
	And that is something that, again, needs to be accounted for when you can look at it historically and say, okay, these people were willing to die for someone they knew.
	That's different from a concept, and that's a whole other layer that we can get into, which, again, there are several different views that, you know...
	If you're talking about a tree branch with Christianity, that's one thing, too.
	The reason I don't engage in these conversations as much with militant atheists is because they go, well, Christians, and you and I understand that the Christian umbrella is far different from, I guess, atheists in the sense that you can go, okay, Christian, you have Catholic, you have Catholic, you have Protestant, then you have Protestant, you have five-point Calvinism, you have this idea of predestination.
	And there are so many different variables there that someone who doesn't believe in the Christian faith at all won't necessarily understand or really be able to have a productive conversation about it.
	And I think this is one where hopefully it's been illuminating for people and we can bring you back on to talk about it more.
	I mean, this is something that can occur for hours.
	It would be nice to continue to develop that because I would like to talk more about the relationship between Christ as a historical figure, say, as a literal figure, and the mythological representations of Christ.
	It's very interesting.
	It's something that Carl Jung spent an awful lot of time talking about as well.
	And his work on that is profound beyond, virtually beyond comprehension.
	Contrary to Freud, who just wanted to screw his mother, Dr.
	Peterson, where is the best place for people to find you and your self-authoring program, which I recommend to everybody?
	Well, they can find the self-authoring program at selfauthoring.com.
	That'll help them write their autobiography and write a plan for the future, which is a very useful thing to do.
	And I have a website at jordanbpeterson.com and lots of videos at Jordan Peterson Videos on YouTube.
	YouTube.
	There's about 600 hours of videos there for people who would like to watch 600 hours of videos.
	Yes, exactly.
	Absolutely.
	I highly recommend it.
	Who needs a college degree at this point when you can watch 600 hours of Dr. Jordan Peterson?
	Mr. Peterson, Dr. Peterson, I apologize.
	Damn, force of habit.
	Thank you so much.
	We must go.
	Well, We'll have you back again soon, sir.
	Thanks.
	Really good seeing you, sir.
	Say what it is!
	Say what it is!
	I don't like mine!
	Sweet Mary and Joseph.
	Robert Sullivan!
	Get to the fallout shelter!
	I always knew those ragheads would make it to our shore, Sullivan.
	Sir, yes sir.
	Thank the lord above, we prepared with preparewithcrowder.com.
	$99 shipped free for a 30-day emergency food supply kit.
	Sir, yes sir.
	Everything you need, reasonably priced.
	We have full meals, freeze-dried fruit, soup and pudding, sir.
	Just add heat and water.
	That's right, Private.
	Just add heat...
	and water.
	Where's all the water, Private?
	Sullivan?
	Do you mean to tell me that we four want the most basic human necessity in exchange for caffeinated sugary soda pop?
	I thought we'd need our energy, sir.
	Like the terrorists?
	Oh, no!
	A lot like that!
	A lot like that!
	Prepare with Crowder.com or call 888-411-5153.
	30-day food supply kit, $99 shipped free!
	They have pudding!
	We'll be right back.
	We'll be right back.
	For those who weren't aware.
	I love how we're doing the underwater dance and Edward the sound guy's in the background.
	Just going forward.
	My jam.
	You don't hold your headphones underwater, Edward the sound guy.
	There's no concept of physics or hydrogen.
	Or imagination.
	Thank you so much to our wonderful guests, Owen Benjamin and Jordan B. Peterson.
	Thank you, at G. Morgan Jr., for being in this week.
	At G. Morgan Jr., hopefully you'll get a better Twitter handle sometime soon.
	Nope.
	Probably not.
	It's like a defiant child.
	Indeed.
	Hopefully you'll finish your Brussels sprouts.
	Nope.
	Oh, I can see we're going to have to discipline you.
	Man, you know what?
	It's one of those things we got.
	We went into some deep conversation here tonight, and sometimes that works, and sometimes people get upset by it.
	Sometimes people really like it.
	So hopefully if you're listening in your car, of course you can subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, Audio, if you don't want to watch the video while you're on the go.
	I know it's not audio-downloadable, the daily show, for Mug Club members.
	LotofCutter.com slash Mug Club CRTV members.
	That's going to be there soon, by the way, in the app.
	So you'll be able to watch the video or you'll be able to download the audio version to take with you.
	We have a lot of requests for that.
	So there is going to be a whole reformatting of the app and the site, just so you know.
	So the reason it hasn't been trotted out earlier is because we're going to do it all at once.
	Hang on, Snoopy.
	Hang on.
	Snoopy, hang on.
	Just hang on.
	I'll tell you what doesn't get better.
	The state of CNN. That is only going to get worse.
	About this earlier in the show and it's interesting that you know Jordan Peterson I can have a discussion where even we even branch out sort of on on the discussion of of Christianity somewhat I don't know how much we disagree or agree because we were talking about it more conceptually, but It's interesting that we can have I guarantee if you're to line up Jordan Peterson me and Owen Benjamin in a room and actually go through what our exact views are That we all would have very seriously differing opinions on certain subjects.
	I I actually think that would probably happen in this room quite a bit, even though we're all right-wing or more conservative.
	But I don't think it happens at places like CNN. I think that with this stuff, when you see someone who's being praised, we talked about, if you just cycle through these stories, when you see how no one at CNN is like, you know, we really should be covering more of this story with Europe and Marie Le Pen, who's having her speech silenced, and no one goes, yeah, we should.
	Right.
	When everyone's saying, you know, it's really brave, this Latino woman, yeah, Donald Trump hates immigrants, and no one is there saying, eh, well, maybe it's illegal immigrants.
	There really is something dangerous.
	We've talked about this, getting into an echo chamber and surrounding yourself, either only with yes-men in your own personal life, or certainly politically and culturally, surrounding yourself with people, even if they agree with you, who won't challenge you.
	Gerald and I have gotten to some knock-down, drag-out brawls.
	Mostly about Transformers.
	No, one time I was over soccer.
	Oh, that's true.
	That's true!
	You said a power lifter could run a faster 40-yard dash than anybody on the planet, and I was like, what?
	I said an Olympic lifter.
	Olympic lifter.
	Yeah, and that's not true.
	That's not what I said.
	No, I know.
	What I said was Olympic lifters without training.
	Three years later, we figured it out.
	We forgave one another.
	I started yelling, you have no science!
	You have no science!
	Because I remember that discussion.
	We got into a big argument.
	It was predicated on the idea that soccer players are faggots.
	No, he meant fast.
	He meant fast.
	That's what he meant.
	No, that's not what I meant at all.
	But their hair stays in place.
	I meant fags.
	I meant men who wear pink jerseys and have buns in their hair.
	Faggots.
	So we were talking about soccer.
	It was predicated on that.
	And then Gerald said, they're the most...
	And this isn't even political.
	But he said, they're actually some of the best athletes in the world.
	And I said, no, they're not.
	Somebody.
	No, they're not.
	Please tweet him.
	This is going to be the thing that gets the most comments out of everything we've discussed today.
	That's right.
	We've gotten into Egyptian mythology, the conceptualization of Christ as opposed to the literal interpretation.
	We've gotten into Thomas Sowell and everyone's going to comment, I can't believe that you called Paley a faggot.
	That's a good old school reference.
	I mean, you can't even come up with like Rooney or somebody current, you know?
	A faggot, ladies and gentlemen.
	See, this is the...
	I'm a Chelsea man anyway, so it doesn't matter.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Chelsea, Manhattan.
	That is the area.
	Man, Chelsea man.
	Stop it.
	Just see what happens.
	He's only digging this hole deeper.
	But we had this discussion, and then afterwards we got into a big argument.
	I went to the bathroom, took a leak, and then I came back.
	We spent the rest of the night.
	We were totally fine.
	But we got into an argument over it, and I remember what it was.
	I was saying, actually, there was a study of the Olympic lifters, which actually you may be right.
	Some people have tried to say this was a falsified study.
	Wait, wait, maybe what?
	I can give it to you all the right time.
	They said it might be a falsified study, but this was for a long time accepted in sports training that the Olympic lifters would actually outrun some of the 100-meter dashers, or maybe it was the 400-meter, like up in the 10 yards first, like that explosive off the blocks.
	And it surprised a lot of people, and so they incorporated a lot of that sort of dynamic training into it.
	And so I was talking about that with soccer, and then we got into the portion where soccer just sucks as a general concept.
	Yeah.
	To conceptualize soccer, sucky faggots.
	So the point is, we end this argument about it, but having a room full of people who still feel comfortable questioning each other and fact-checking each other, saying, I disagree with you on that, is a much more healthy atmosphere than I think you even see in traditional media outlets.
	And you have to ask yourself, we're talking about the golden age of journalism.
	To take it back to that, what do you think changed?
	The golden age of journalists, the same networks, ABC, NBC, CBS, largely the same corporations, or certainly the same level of power of these giant corporations.
	So did it change overnight, where all of a sudden everyone at NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, the most trusted name, did it change overnight, where all of a sudden they decided we're only going to hire liberals to the point where Chris Cuomo will go out there and actually believe that he's a news anchor?
	Did that happen overnight?
	Or is it maybe something that was always there that you weren't aware about because they've always been in a room where they agree with each other?
	And you will be amazed sometimes when you don't have to accept this premise.
	There are some simple things.
	Sometimes people—Owen Benjamin was very complimentary.
	I do not fancy myself a skilled debater at all.
	Like I've said, Thomas Sowell, Ben Shapiro, even Jordan Peterson are— Listen, they're way more educated and they're way more skilled in the art of debate than I am.
	For people who ask for that, if you're actually looking for truth...
	When you're having a conversation and a debate, and you'll see this happen with Chris Cuomo, you'll see this happen with a lot of members of traditional media who were once respected.
	If you just check them on something very simple, that, well, Donald Trump hates immigrants, you can literally get the upper hand in that conversation, in a conversation seeking the truth, not just talking about a debate.
	I say, well, no, no, hold on a second.
	The problem we have is with illegal immigration.
	And you would assume that they will be able to handle that, and they'll have a counter-argument, and then you'll have three or four prepared, which you always should, but most of the time it doesn't happen.
	Certainly not with people who are coming from the entertainment industry or coming from the New York DC media elite.
	It is remarkable where we've gotten to a point where the most rudimentary debating techniques or skills, the most rudimentary employment of the Socratic method.
	It destroys their entire basis of arguing in the first place.
	And you're seeing that happen.
	And this is a really interesting time in history because I don't think that this is the first time people have woken up.
	I don't think this is the first time that people are starting to be willing to...
	To concede that, I think we're at a time in history where people have been so coddled, where people in the entertainment industry and people in the media have been so used to like-minded thinking, and because of the information superhighway that is the internet, they're now being questioned on it.
	And you see it, right?
	This is why you see Chris Cuomo and Don Lemon freaking out and getting into Twitter fights.
	Look, you make millions of dollars every year and you're on one of the biggest news networks in the world and you're getting mad because someone said that you're wrong on Twitter.
	It's because they're so fragile.
	I don't think they've been exposed to this information as they've gotten from the walking meme on Twitter who just said his own Benjamin said, no, 77 cents in the dollar is a lie.
	No, it's illegal immigration.
	And so I will say this, if nothing else to learn, it's okay to be bold.
	Sometimes you'll be surprised.
	Have you ever had this where you're getting into a conversation or to an argument, and someone else says something that is sort of assumed as a truth, and they say it confidently, so you go, well, hold on a second.
	Maybe they're right.
	Maybe I shouldn't say what I thought I was going to say.
	Because they seem confident about that.
	That's what's been going on for decades in this country.
	That's what's been going on on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN. Every place.
	That's what's been going on with Sarah Silverman.
	That's what's been going on with Amy Schumer.
	That's what's been going on with the entertainment industry.
	They've been saying things confidently enough that a lot of us have been going, well, hold on a second.
	They all say it.
	It must be true.
	You'd be surprised as to how much headway you can make just by being bold in declaring what you know to be true.
	Arm yourself with information, but if you know it to be true and are just willing to speak about it publicly...

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