All Episodes
Previous Next
Feb. 24, 2017 - Louder with Crowder
02:21:20
#127 EPIC "RAPE CULTURE" DEBATE! Pogo and Michael Ian Black | Louder With Crowder
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
What would you do if I sang out of tune?
Would you stand up and walk out on me?
Let me over your ears and I'll sing you a song I will try not to sing out of key We're
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
I am formally trained in the art of kata.
And really what it is, is when there are no actual attackers, you just go...
That's the sound of the weekend, for those of you who are not Mug Club members.
And why would you want to be after that introduction?
Producing with me in video studio, as always, is Jared, who is not gay.
Follow him on Twitter at NotGayJared, me at S. Crowder.
I fulfill my legal obligations, draw your own conclusions.
We good?
Well, I'll shut up now.
A Jew!
We have a Jew in the studio.
Our AP, Scott, and you'll see why that matters.
Be very nice to me.
He actually has Berg in the name.
Be very nice to me.
How hard is it to, anytime you actually run into, like, an anti-Semite, and you can sense it?
And they ask you your last name.
Do you change it?
Here's the thing.
I've lived in the suburbs of New York, Los Angeles, a very liberal town in Boulder, Colorado.
I have not run into many anti-Semites.
It just hasn't really happened at all.
You know what's more interesting?
The fact that we can't see Scott in this shot well at all.
Nothing like perpetuating the original stereotype.
Because we're not tall.
The reason this matters is when I was on CNN today, on their app anyway, front page, I should say it's opinion, but this is CNN. It's supposed to be a news network.
They have this article.
Clearly the Trump administration has a problem with the Jews.
CNN, you're not even trying anymore.
It's like after the BuzzFeed Russian hooker debacle.
They're just like, you know what?
He hates the juice.
Let's just see what sticks.
Let's just see what sticks.
And this comes after his visit to the Anne Frank Museum, and actually said some very nice things.
I mean, you see this, what was it, the African American Museum?
His speeches were actually pretty nice, pretty uniting, and this is why we can't have nice things.
So, I don't even know where to start on this article.
The guy goes on to write, Scott highlighted this, he goes on to say, millions of Jewish kids go to school in fear every day.
I think talking about Americans, I don't know, he's not really talking about Israel.
He also says that basically the crux of it is Donald Trump hasn't been very nice to Jews all this time.
This is the article.
It is so baseless.
Go to CNN.com, read it.
Clearly Trump doesn't care about the Jews.
As a matter of fact, when asked for comment, the original author had this to say.
Christ!
You are everything that's gone wrong in this world.
You are self-consumed, no talent, mediocre piece of s**t, and I've earned my right to say it.
Okay?
I had thought.
How does he get his own column?
Oh, no.
What's the screening process for this at CNN now?
It's low, though.
It's a low bar.
Before we get into it, Scott, you got so passionate that you put on 25 unnecessary sources in the show map.
I can understand when people say, okay, Donald Trump, maybe there's an authoritarian bent.
Maybe he has a problem with the press.
We go, okay, I can see a problem there.
This one, to me, as a Gentile, with Donald Trump, certainly compared to Barack Obama...
Whether you agree with the Israel situation or not, or the UN, let's get that off the table.
But to say Donald Trump is more anti-Israel seems so entirely baseless.
No, it is baseless.
And this gentleman, this French socialist, I can only assume he's a socialist.
That's not what he said.
He just said he doesn't like Jews.
That's what the article was about.
He just doesn't like Jews.
If you look at his policy towards Israel, he's obviously more pro-Israel than Barack Obama is.
Well, yeah, we have that actually.
Barack Obama, before he left the presidency, he tried to send, tried to Western Union $222 million to Palestine.
By the way, Palestine is still under control of Hamas, who does have the destruction of any and all Jews in their charter.
And he tried to do this unilaterally.
Donald Trump froze it when he came in.
It was one of the first things that he did.
Again, let's take away how you feel about Israel and the American government or the UN. Let's just address the premise that Donald Trump hates Jews and really look at his actions compared to the previous administration.
Do we have the John Kerry speech?
We do.
So John Kerry gave the speech on the Israel-Palestinian conflict.
So let's act as though Donald Trump were saying this.
It's going to be just that much harder to separate.
That much harder to imagine transferring sovereignty.
And that is exactly the outcome that some are purposefully accelerating.
Let's be clear.
Settlement expansion has nothing to do with Israel's security.
Incorrect.
Scott, does settlement expansion have anything to do with Israel's security?
Of course it does.
Is that something to do with rockets?
It has to do with...
Something to do with tunnel bombs?
It has to do with paying terrorist bombers, paying their families after the attack has happened.
Yeah.
What else do you need?
By the way, depending on how well they pay, do any Jews get in on that action?
No, they don't.
They do not.
I would know.
That's something that's posted on Craigslist.
Here's another interview with Obama.
Again, we're just comparing for CNN to put this out as news.
CNN, the most trusted name in news.
Donald Trump is anti-Jew.
He's an anti-Semite.
Let's compare it with a direct interview from Barack Obama not long ago.
Can you understand the sense of betrayal?
No.
I think, I'll be honest with you, that that kind of hyperbole, those kinds of statements, don't have basis in fact.
They may work well with respect to deflecting attention from the problem of settlements.
They may play well with Bibi's political base, as well as the Republican base here in the United States.
They don't match up with the facts.
Because Barack Obama is the gatekeeper for the facts.
Also CNN and BuzzFeed, their colleagues at BuzzFeed.
Don't you love how dismissive he is?
It may play with the Republican base and BB's voting base.
But no more people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not the people who aren't being blown up in record numbers.
It's just, you know, let's talk about actions.
This guy in the article, and Scott was talking about this earlier today, you know, Donald Trump.
So right away, Israel actually, they were really upset that Barack Obama did not veto the condemnation across the board of Israel from the UN. The UN might as well be called the We Hate the United States and Israel organization.
Maybe that's why we tend to be buddies.
They hate us both.
And they partner up with countries that are literally run by terrorist organizations.
I mean, imagine if both Canada and Mexico had it in their country's charter, the destruction of any and all Americans.
Let's try and put that into some context.
I know we're going to get some people who hate Jews in the comment section and say that we're paid by...
And if France lectured us about wanting to protect our borders from said violence.
Or if France lectured us about anything.
Trump, right away, after the UN vote, came in, warned them.
This is what he did.
He came and he warned them, went into bat for Israel.
Sorry for the alt-right people who don't like the Jews.
Donald Trump is possibly the greatest friend to Israel of any modern president in history.
Certainly if you look at his first actions.
Not to mention his daughter married a Jew and converted.
By the way, that's something that, you know, I can understand marrying a Jew, but converting, that's a lot of baggage.
That's a new dedication.
I mean, it's not like it's fun.
Automatically makes you more annoying.
Does it?
It does.
It automatically, once you convert, you are more annoying immediately.
Well, how so?
Is it just for other Jewish people?
Because we're Jewish.
We're Jewish.
I didn't expect him to go so full poorly.
You've got to ease into it.
People are going to think that we put this in his contract, otherwise he would be fired.
Let's be honest, he controls the contract.
Let's be honest.
It really is!
And the banks!
I don't know what happened.
He had seized my assets.
And I'm coming for this show next.
He's coming for the whole CRTV network.
And YouTube.
He has a contact.
He knows the guy.
By the way, for final comment on this, let's go back to the original author.
He had this to say.
Who the f*** are you?
You nothing!
You nothing!
You are nothing.
And you will never be anything.
Never!
How dare you!
How dare you!
You mystical, mediocre nothing!
I will say not a great ambassador for the Jewish people.
I don't know how he's so sweet.
He looks like Andre the Giant if he were a midget.
Yeah.
That's what's so bizarre.
Andre the Giant's scrotum, perhaps.
Well, now we know why he's relegated to the online section of CNN, and we don't see him appear on panels.
No.
This article was up.
Oh, by the way, I should have said, we didn't introduce our guests.
Oh, my gosh.
Michael Ian Black today, I should have said Michael Ian Black, who doesn't like me very much, thinks that I'm wrong about everything rape culture.
I apologize, Zero.
I don't think there's rape culture in the United States.
And of course, we have Pogo.
Pogo.
Huge guests.
Pogo.
People are stoked.
They've been waiting for this forever.
As a matter of fact, that's why we're just going to do this one more topic and get to the guests, because I think they're going to be great guest segments.
This was up as an article today.
The Sports Illustrated Model.
I know we've talked about this before.
Hunter McGrady.
Now, I read this, and I know, why are you talking about fat chicks?
Here's why.
This is why this is important.
Because if you actually read this article, and it's this virtue signaling, hey, everyone is proud.
This is my God-given body.
I'm proud.
It actually sends a horrible message to teenage girls.
Just like feminism.
Feminism sent a horrible message to young women with the sexual liberation, with the idea that you don't need a man, with the idea of rape culture, and they basically completely stripped women of their natural God-given power.
I know women who feel empty inside because they can't figure out what career they're supposed to have because feminism tells them they have to have a career.
This person just wants to be a mom.
And that's not okay today.
I know.
She feels empty because of the barren womb.
That's also something that makes it tough.
It's true.
Right off the bat, it went to a weird dark place.
Weird.
I don't know how much darker you can get with Michael Ian Black.
I'm sure he'll probably say something anti-Semitic.
So she sits here and she talks in this article.
She's talking about her God-given body.
And she talks about how when she was a teenager, and here are the pictures.
When she was a teenager, she starved herself and she was unhealthy.
And you see these pictures.
It does look like maybe she's a little bit too thin.
And then she talks about how now her God-given body is her, she claims a size 18, which usually means you're probably like a size 22.
And it doesn't change.
The rule doesn't change with plus-size models.
Here's the thing with that.
There is a middle ground.
There is a middle ground here.
She could eat healthy and exercise and probably would be slightly smaller.
Now, I'm not saying that she's completely unattractive, but there is a middle ground.
You don't have to be anorexic, skinny, and unhealthy, or overweight and unhealthy.
And by the way, by a doctor's measurement, this would be an unhealthy weight for her at her size.
A size 18, a size 20, a size 22.
And she even talks about, in this article, she talks about, when I was a teenager, I constantly tried to shave more off my hips.
But here's the thing.
That's your problem.
No men want you to shave more off your hips.
Even men who like thin women are like, I like thin women, I don't want any hips!
Nothing!
I don't even like boobs and butts.
Let's just put that out there to confuse it.
No!
No men want you to not have hips.
And here's the issue that I have with this.
Not only is it doing a great disservice to young women, but it is incredibly vilifying of young men.
Because what you're doing is you're creating a straw man.
This ideal standard of beauty that no men...
Men don't have an ideal, one perfect standard of beauty.
That's what's wonderful.
We need to be telling young girls, listen, if you're within the parameters of health, men will like you, whether you're tall, whether you're short, you're thinner, you're slightly chubbier, as long as you are relatively healthy and put yourself together well throughout history.
Men have found a majority of women sexually attractive.
I mean, you can look at them.
You have Marilyn Monroe was a model slightly bigger.
Then you have Audrey Hepburn, obviously, who goes the other direction.
When I was a kid, Julie Newmar was someone I had a big crush on watching Batman.
She's a more average mid-sized girl.
If you look at the cover of men's magazines, you see people of all different sizes.
It doesn't matter.
As a matter of fact, if you want to look for someone to blame, look for when women allowed themselves to be co-opted by homosexual fashion designers who create women's magazines.
The only place you see this crazy, unrealistic standard of beauty is on Mary Claire and Elle and wherever these gay men want to make women look like little boys.
No straight men expect that.
Even today, let's look at this objectively.
The most beautiful woman in the world, whenever you look at people's list, you have men who love Taylor Swift?
Love her.
They find her gorgeous.
She's on the thin, tall side.
And some men love Beyonce.
That's not my thing.
Maybe it's yours.
I noticed your selection of photographs there.
We will get letters regarding the Queen Bee.
By the way, if you send me a letter and say Queen Bee, I immediately know that you're an angry gay.
You just purge your email and start a new one.
Get it out.
So this tells little girls you either have to have an eating disorder...
Or you have to be overweight.
And you should be proud of being overweight.
And they take something that can be so unifying, this idea of beautiful women in all different shapes and sizes, which, by the way, is pretty universal for men.
And they try to guilt men based on an expectation men don't have.
And then tell women that they'll be happier with a life that will make them definitively less healthy and unhappy.
And something else, a big irony here, that I think a lot of people miss.
The whole fat pride movement is based on inner beauty.
It's about the inner beauty.
Well, if you read this article, if this woman weren't pretty and a plus-size model, you wouldn't be talking about inner beauty.
Let's look at what she wrote.
Her biggest dream was to be the Sports Illustrated swimsuit model cover.
That's just as shallow and vain as any model out there.
You just happen to be overweight.
She wasn't dreaming of building orphanages.
She wasn't dreaming of going out there and curing diseases.
She wasn't dreaming of raising a great family.
Her dream was to be ogled in a swimsuit.
So, that's fine if that's your dream.
I get it.
Lots of thin people have those dreams too.
But if you're going to condemn thin people as shallow and vain and say, look at me, it's about inner beauty.
Oh, really?
Well, what are you about?
Posing naked?
So you're just the same thing.
You're doing the exact same thing.
We're supposed to act as though these plus-size models somehow are pushing the boundaries as though they're not vain.
They're just as vain.
They just didn't do the push-ups.
And the problem here is, it's again, you're turning something, men, their attraction, to women of all different shapes and sizes, you're creating outrage at something that couldn't be less outrageous.
Hey, Steven.
Steven, real quick.
Come over here.
Do you think she's hot?
Yeah.
What do you think about her?
Yeah.
What do you think about that?
I guess, but probably prefer the other ones.
Patriarchy!
All right, all right.
The double-secret patriarchy meeting is now in session.
First item of business.
It is very important that we make sure women don't catch on to the fact that marriage is nothing more than glorified rape.
So please keep that under your hats, shall you?
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Alright, on to item number two.
We need unified standards on what will be determined as the most recent oppressive standards of beauty that we don't even like.
Anybody have suggestions?
Yeah, me.
Yes, Bradley.
Yeah, I was just thinking maybe we could tell women or the people who do the magazines that we like bigger breasts and nice bodies.
Even though we don't like any of those things.
Brilliant, Bradley.
That will really screw with their heads.
Anyone else?
Yeah, over here.
Yes, Phil Cool.
Yeah, I was thinking, like, maybe we tell people that we like women more, you know, who are more nurturing and good around the house.
Ha!
Even though clearly men are not attracted to any of those qualities in the opposite sex.
Good thinking, Phil.
We'll be sure to maintain our death grip on oppression.
Okay, one more.
Yes, you in the back there, Perry.
How about we put out the notion that we like our women?
To look like women.
Oh, that's glorious.
Even though men clearly like women who look like androgynous little boys, we'll tell them that we prefer them looking feminine.
Oh, they'll be sure to get their goat and grind their gears.
Well, I think we have a lot to work with this week.
Refreshments are in the back, but keep it to a two-per-person maximum.
Double-secret patriarchy meeting is adjourned.
See you next Tuesday.
I don't have a bomb shelter.
I don't have some kind of a road warrior truck for when the crap hits the fan.
And I'm not a prepper.
But I have lived through some natural disasters in my lifetime.
The ice storm in Montreal where we actually knew people who died, couldn't get food or water.
My brother with earthquakes in Los Angeles.
It pays to be prepared.
You don't have to be some crazy person living out in the plains to do so.
And that's why right now with this promotional offer from Lotter with Crowder, you can call 888-457-3453 to get a 30-day emergency food kit for $99 shipped.
You've got drinks, you've got food, everything you need in here.
Really for 30...
Shut up.
Shut up!
Don't screw up my take.
I told you not to screw up my take.
I'm going to keep doing it again.
That's 888-457-3453 or online at preparewithcr.com.
140 servings, 30 days.
Set it and forget it.
Leave it in your basement, wherever.
You don't have to think about it.
$99 shipped free.
888-457-3453 or preparewithcr.com.
Very nice.
Pogo, who's coming up after our next guest.
Hopefully it's all a good time.
We never know.
Good times.
Next guest, I've actually followed him for a while.
Followed his comedy over there.
Stella is a comedy troupe that he's taking part in.
My brother's a huge fan.
He had some choice words for me.
Some choice words went back and forth.
But now he is on the program.
At Michael Ian Black.
Mr.
Black, thank you for being here, sir.
My pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
And then there were a few tweets after that when I was encouraging you to come on the show.
So let's just lead with that, Michael.
Holy shit, what?
I'm always open to new ideas.
Sure, holy shit, that video is appalling.
Okay, how so?
In a number of ways.
The first is that it's trivializing, demeaning, and making a cartoon of somebody's experience with what they describe as a sexual assault.
By doing that, you're, I think, guilty of the thing that a lot of These women say, which is you're making them feel like they're not going to be believed and that they're going to have a hard time coming forward if they're going to be on the receiving end of this kind of action.
Okay.
Can I respond to that?
Of course.
Okay.
A couple of things.
Did you watch the little video?
Yes.
Okay, because one of the very first things I talk about is the grave concern with people like Lena Dunham falsely attributing rape, or falsely accusing rape, rather, is the people who come forward who have actually been raped.
And the people who falsely cite statistics like the 1 in 3 or 1 in 4, which is verifiably untrue, that that makes it actually...
That's not true.
What you're saying is untrue.
No, what I'm saying is completely true.
What you're saying is untrue.
The CDC study that you referenced...
I have the statistics.
No, no, no.
The Bureau for Justice.
Right now, nearly one in five, 18.3% of women, and one in 71 men, 1.4% reported experiencing rape at some time in their lives.
Okay, there you go.
So let me clarify that.
See, that's the CDC report experiencing rape, right?
Now, when we frame in what rape is, which is sexual assault, Unwanted, unwarranted, without consent, the Bureau for Justice says that it's 6.1 per 1,000.
So that would be.003.
What is the Bureau of Justice?
The United States Bureau of Justice.
It's a federal department of justice.
We're talking about the United States statistics here regarding rape.
And again, let me respond really quickly.
You're saying the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control, is wrong, and you're correct.
No.
And how are you basing that?
No, I'm not.
And let me tell you why I'm saying my statistic is correct, because I'm fully aware of the statistics that you cite, that Lena Dunham, them and their ilk cite, and I'm aware of the flaws in that statistic.
Now, that includes any P and V that is regretful.
Are you aware this is taught on campus?
Do you know what that means?
No, it says rape.
That's what it says.
Again, rape is defined as any P and V, any penis in vagina which is regretful.
As a matter of fact, let's look at the California rape statute, which would be included.
The California rape statute...
That requires consent continually throughout the entire act of sexual intercourse, meaning that someone could immediately become guilty of rape within one thrust without even knowing it.
That's the California rape statute.
That's not correct.
It is correct.
I have it right in front of me.
Well, what consent implies and says explicitly is, and you said this in your video, that if somebody says no at any point, that person has to stop.
That's what you said.
Right.
No, but that's not what California means.
No, that's not what California means.
Therefore, what you're saying is a lie.
Hold on a second, hold on a second.
You just made a bunch of leaps.
Okay, I'd rather instead of making leaps and assumptions, leaps and assumptions...
Consent has to occur, and that when somebody says no at any time during the act, I'm quoting you now, you said that is rape, and that's what California says.
Okay, you made a bunch of assumptions.
Are you aware of the California statute that is called affirmative consent?
No, I'm not.
Okay.
Well, it's what I just told you about.
So let's assume for a second.
Hold on a second.
I didn't say that you were wrong.
I didn't say that what you said was untrue.
I'm saying you're wrong.
Yeah, I didn't say what you said.
Sorry.
You are wrong.
What you said was not necessarily untrue.
I'm not saying that you were being dishonest.
You are incorrect.
So, let me present that.
Before we go back and forth again on that and different definitions, again, there's a CDC definition, there's a Bureau of Justice definition, which frames in rape as actual sexual assault, unwanted sexual intercourse.
Not drunken intercourse, not intercourse where a girl afterwards says that she regretted it.
It's actual rape.
We need to make that clear because Lena Dunham was talking about sex that she regretted.
And in that video, I talked about lumping.
This is the whole point, Michael.
This is important.
The whole point of that video.
And by the way, the first thing I say is rape is never acceptable.
Okay?
You absolutely said that.
Several times.
And it demeans and it belittles the horrendous act of rape by simply throwing it out as an accusation and lumping in all regretful sex as rape.
She didn't throw it out as an accusation.
In fact, she went to great pains to say that she had very mixed emotions about it.
She had to process it.
It was psychologically difficult for her.
She went to great pains to say that this experience required her to undergo a lot of thought, examination, self-examination, and self-procrimination.
She didn't willy-nilly say that this was rape.
I would consider a false accusation willy-nilly.
What?
I would consider a false accusation verifiably false willy-nilly.
It is not verifiably false.
There's nothing that she said that was verifiably false.
I've spoken with him.
I've spoken with him.
She never pressed charges and she dropped the issue completely and said that she misspoke.
She said that she misspoke and she said that she blew it up.
She wishes she never said it.
The man claims it never happened.
Can you quote that to me?
Hey, I can't quote that to you right now, but I can...
Speaking out was never about exposing the man who assaulted me.
Rather, it was about exposing my shame, meaning hers, letting it dry out in the sun.
I did not wish to be contacted by him or to open a criminal investigation.
That's her words.
Yeah, but why not?
Weren't you saying that she regretted it and she wished she had never said it?
Yeah, she talked about it later on, saying that it was blown out of proportion.
I don't have Lena Dunham's exact quote right in front of me.
You have to have it.
If you're going to make accusations, you have to have it.
Well, what you just said right there, why would she not?
Let's talk about it.
Hold on, Michael.
Michael, Michael, hold on.
You're going off the deep end, brother.
You're going off the deep end, brother.
Hold on a second.
I want to let you finish.
Let me finish.
Okay, when I speak, and I'll let you finish.
So we can go back and forth.
Right there, CDC, Bureau of Justice, can we agree that we need to define rape before we start talking about a rape culture?
We didn't talk about a rape culture.
That video was entirely about rape culture.
It was called rape culture.
The video was about rape culture and you tweeted me, holy shit, right?
The video was about rape culture.
You have a problem with my video which was addressing rape culture.
Do you not?
Okay.
So let's clarify.
I'm not pulling a bait and switch.
I'm allowing you the floor when you decided to pull out a random video and launch some kind of a Twitter tirade.
It was about rape culture.
It was about rape culture.
I said, holy shit, and I'm explaining why.
And then repeatedly, when asked to come on the show, said, no, I needed to talk with a woman who was a victim of sexual assault.
Yes.
How is that a tirade, Stephen?
Because it was repeatedly.
Multiple tweets.
You have several million followers.
Several million followers.
No, you didn't.
No, you didn't.
You tried to hide behind people who didn't exist, who you didn't put forward beforehand.
Stephen, what are you talking about?
Okay, so rape culture is what we're talking about.
You're saying the people I talk to don't exist?
Yeah, you didn't present a victim of sexual assault to debate.
You're a fact person.
How are you determining that?
Who did you suggest for me to debate, if not yourself?
I said a victim of sexual abuse.
Yeah.
Well, first off, you said any woman.
No, I did not say any woman.
I said a victim of sexual abuse.
You can quote me to myself.
You said any woman on the subject as well.
Hold on, I believe I have some of the tweets here.
You did say of sexual abuse, and you said that any woman would be more qualified on the subject.
Yes, any woman would be more qualified than me to talk about this.
In fact, probably every single adult woman I know could share with you.
Yes.
So is that not factual, what I just said then?
That is your quote?
No?
What you just said, yes, is my quote.
Yes.
So you said any victim of sexual assault or any adult woman?
Yes.
Did you provide anyone?
Because I provided two people.
Two adult women.
Right.
And I said I wasn't comfortable speaking on behalf of sexual abuse survivors because I'm not one.
Okay.
But right now you just said you were willing to come on and argue.
You weren't.
You tried to shirk it several times is my point.
I'm glad we're having this conversation.
But don't act as though anyone else drew first blood here other than yourself.
You're accusing me of shirking it, and now you're saying that I shouldn't have come on?
No, I think you should come on.
But you acted as though you wanted to come on right away.
The point is, Michael, you tried to take a parting shot, and now we're here.
This is good.
What was my parting shot, Stephen?
Your parting shot was throwing out a tweet to someone with a smaller profile than yourself, then refusing to come on until you were cornered and felt pressured.
But I didn't refuse.
I came on.
Here I am.
You repeatedly did.
You repeatedly did, and I appreciate you agreeing to.
So, rape culture is what we're talking about.
So, you also said that you think that my video was incentive, which, of course, dealt in statistics, as we're talking about right now.
What about your rape jokes, then?
Let's talk about, you said you wanted to define rape.
What about your rape?
Hold on a second.
You said it was very insensitive.
You made rape jokes throughout your entire career.
90,185 rapes in 2015.
That's 2015.
Michael, you started it off personally.
Do you think that's too many rapes?
You started off personally.
I think one rape is too many rapes.
You started off personally.
You started off personally saying that you personally make people very uncomfortable, ashamed of these incidents with your video on rape.
You talked about making light of it, making jokes about it.
Demeaning the victim, yes.
Okay, yeah, by making light of it, what about your...
Wait a minute, you said you wanted to define rape, and now you're moving away from the subject.
I do, I do.
Well, we did define rape.
We did define rape.
Let's have a definition of rape.
We did define rape.
Let's talk about the numbers of rapes, and let's talk about rape culture, which you say doesn't exist.
I'm saying there were 90,185 rapes in 2015.
This is according to the FBI. Do you think that's too many rapes?
This is the exact same thing as Christopher Titus.
Why don't you care about dead kids?
Yes or no?
Of course I do!
Okay.
How is that relevant to the fact that there is no rape culture in the United States and that you're pulling out bogus statistics?
How many broken arms are there in the United States because someone doesn't know how to open an oven?
Is that too many?
Of course it's too many.
The point is, it's a stupid non-sequitur, Michael.
It's a stupid non-sequitur.
Any rape is too many rapes.
We agree.
Nobody here is a supporter of rape.
Stop trying to frame it as though they somehow support some kinds of rape.
Michael, what about your rape jokes?
What about your rape jokes?
We can talk about my rape jokes.
So is that not the same thing?
Because you didn't do so in a way that was addressing it factually as I did.
You simply have made rape jokes that are insensitive in making life.
Does that mean you support rape?
Of course not.
Tell me what rape jokes I made.
A couple of them.
Done skiing for the day, drunk and exhausted.
Uh-huh.
That's a terrible tweet on my part, that last one.
Here's the thing, Michael.
I don't think it's offensive.
And I don't think it hurts rape victims.
But my point is, before we go into personal attacks...
I didn't personally attack you!
You make a personal argument as though I somehow don't care about victims of rape.
I just have a different opinion than you.
I said, holy shit, because your video is appalling.
I never attacked you personally.
Yeah, but you've not proven why it's appalling.
You said it makes light and it's demeaning.
If you have an example of me attacking you personally, please show me.
Sure.
Right at the outset of this, thank God people have Rewind on the internet.
I don't know if it's called Rewind.
It's called Skip 30, I think, where you said it demeans and makes light of the situation of people who are rape victims.
That is not a personal attack on you.
No, no, I'm saying you tried to set the argument personally.
You tried to set the argument personally.
As you're doing now, are there too many rapes?
Yes, of course there are.
That's trying to frame the argument as though one of us is sympathetic to rape victims and one of us isn't.
The fact is you've made far more...
No, that's not at all what I'm saying.
I'm saying you deny that there's rape culture.
Yes.
So if there is no rape culture, if rape isn't a problem in this country...
Two different things, two different things, two different things.
There's a difference between rape culture and rape being a problem.
If rape culture isn't a problem in this country, then surely there is a number at which you agree that rape is acceptable and a number at which you agree it is not.
So if the number is zero, which we both agree it is, the number is zero of acceptable rapes, that's what you said and I'm agreeing...
Then clearly there's a problem in the culture if the FBI is saying there were 90,185 reported rapes in 2015.
Yeah, incorrect.
Okay, so the FBI is incorrect and the CDC is incorrect.
No, that's not what I said.
Incorrect.
You just said incorrect!
Your statement right now, which was two or three paragraphs, was incorrect.
Now, before you got to the FBI, very clever, tying in at the end of an entire opining on your behalf, to act as though that somehow substantiates what you said.
You said there are these many rapes, and if we agree that rape is a problem, of course rape is a problem, then we agree there's a rape culture.
Don't agree there's a rape culture.
Just like I don't agree there's a murder culture.
I don't agree that there's a racism culture in the United States.
I don't agree there's a cultural problem with it.
I believe there's rape, and certainly if we want to get into a rape culture problem, we can get into societies where that is the case, as nearly every Islamic nation in the world, where rape is actually, in fact, allowed legally.
It's not allowed here.
Rape is illegal in this country, and rape is very, very rare in the United States.
And my point is this.
Okay, so the FBI, when they say 90,185, that's very, very rare?
Yes.
Okay.
And when you say it's very, very rare, and that the CDC says one in five will experience rape in their lifetime, that is also rare?
One in five is false.
Okay, so the CDC is wrong, and the FBI saying 90,000 is rare.
Well, first off, you have two numbers that contradict each other.
You have two numbers that contradict each other.
You're aware of this, right?
No, they don't.
90,000 would be one in five women?
90,000 would be one in five women?
Michael.
I'm sorry, I interrupted you.
90,000 would be one in five women, Michael?
No, of course not.
So you have two sources that contradict each other.
In 2015, the CDC says one in five over the course of their lives.
90,000 would not even be close to one in five.
Of course, you and I agree.
90,000 reported to law enforcement in 2015.
I've said it five times.
The CDC statistic refers to a lifetime over the course of their lifetime, one in five.
Yeah.
First off, the CDC is false.
And again, if we get into those statistics, considering that over 80% of rapes are not committed by serial rapists, but by people who they know.
Nobody said they were.
No, but I'm saying it wouldn't bear out in those statistics.
As far as the lifetime statistics, if you were to extrapolate the number of 90,000 regarding even their current standards of rape, which is sex with anyone they regret, Michael.
And again, those statistics are constantly rebutted from the CDC. The Bureau of Justice specifically said we need to look at these and frame them in.
Yes, it does.
Can you show me the CDC definition where it says they regret having sex as a definition of rape?
Read to me the CDC definition that you read earlier, so that way I'm not misquoting it.
You read it earlier, Michael.
Read to me the CDC definition you just read earlier, because I don't want you to say that I'm misquoting it.
I'm having sexual violence.
This is quoting from the CDC. A fax at a glance from 2012.
CDC.gov.
Violence Prevention.
PDF. SV. Data Sheet.
APDF. In a nationally represented survey of adults, and we can look at the survey, nearly 1 in 5, 18.3% of women and 1 in 71 men reported experiencing rape at some time in their lives.
Reported experiencing rape.
How was rape defined, is the point.
Reported experiencing rape.
Self-reporting experiencing rape.
If we go by crimes...
So this comes from the National Intimate Partnering Sexual Violence Survey in 2010.
Yeah.
The National Center for Injury Prevention and Control Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 2011.
That's the reference.
That's where it's coming from.
Yes.
Define experiencing rape.
I can't, but Stephen, it's the CDC. So we'd have to go back to the original survey, the National Intimate Partner in Sexual Violence Survey, which I don't have at my fingertips.
Okay, and that's fair.
Listen, I'm not trying to trick you or make you get some sources that you don't have.
Okay, well, you work with your statistics, the CDC. If you take that and put it next to the criminal statistics, even if you add it up over the lifetime, it's not even close.
It couldn't possibly add up to one in five.
Except that this is 90,185 rates reported to law enforcement in 2015.
We both know, Stephen, that very few or a minority of rapes are reported.
Okay, so this requires a lot of assumptions on your part, right?
No, it doesn't.
Yes, it does.
Yes, it does.
It requires a lot of assumptions, and I'm going to explain why and act as though you'll allow me to finish a sentence.
It requires a lot of assumptions because you're taking a criminal statistic, which in no way could at any point, if you were to take an average lifetime, add up to one in five people are raped.
And then you are comparing that with experiencing rape, which is not clearly defined.
Now, And she didn't.
She did.
She made it very clear that she had a lot of ambiguity and problems with the term at first, came to accept it eventually, and also, as I quoted to you before, took a lot of the blame herself.
And in writing about it, I think what she was saying was she was trying to encourage other people to experience it Yeah, I wouldn't use the word problematic.
I would say inaccurate.
Well, clearly you would say that.
It's an inaccurate term.
There is no rape culture in the United States.
We put rapists away when they're proven guilty.
We have a problem with rape.
The overwhelming majority of Americans are against rape.
The overwhelming majority of men do not commit rape.
One in five women are not raped.
That is incorrect.
That is factually incorrect.
0.03...
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 0.03 and 5.
It's 6.1 per 1,000 students.
I have the number right here.
Students now.
You're not saying over the course of a lifetime.
We're talking about rape culture.
Again, this is where we're going back to.
That was the video.
The Bureau of Justice that you're saying is that quoting people over the course of a lifetime, which is what the CDC says.
Yeah, the video that we were talking about was rape culture.
No, Stephen, you just quoted the Bureau of Justice to disprove the CDC. Does it say over the course of a lifetime or does it say during the four years of college?
Here's the important point.
No, it's not the point.
You're saying that the CDC is wrong.
Yes, yes, both, both, Michael, both.
Right now I'm looking at a college, Michael, both, Michael, both, Michael.
Michael, Michael, both.
Now the reason that right now we are talking about college is because rape culture as the term, which is the reason for the video.
You chose to address the video, Michael.
You don't get to say, hey, this video was wrong where Stephen is talking about racism.
Holy shit.
And I say, well, let's talk about racism.
You say, let's talk about abortion.
We were talking about rape culture in the video.
We've been talking about rape this entire time.
I haven't brought up anything other than rape.
No, not as it relates to on campus.
That is what the video is about, Michael.
1 in 5 over the course of a lifetime.
Bureau of Justice that you just quoted does not refer to in a lifetime.
So if 1 in 5 women are raped in the course of a lifetime, according to the CDC, which you are unable to disprove, Stephen, then clearly— I am, and I have just proven it many times writing about it, as has Courtney and Casey, headwriters at louderwithcrowder.com.
Let me get to my point.
Let me finish, Michael.
I know in your entertainment industry you get to interrupt and run roughshod over people, and people think that somehow you're a skilled debater, but my God, man, you've got to stay on point here, okay?
I'm trying to be civil.
I'm trying to be respectful.
Stop interrupting.
No, there is.
You haven't.
Michael.
So, people, you see, this is the problem with the arguing with the leftists.
As you can see here in this conversation, one person continually interrupts, does not allow someone else to speak, is clearly emotionally perturbed.
No, I haven't been interrupting you.
I have gotten maybe two phrases in before you go into a paragraph, Michael.
Michael, the video was about rape culture.
You decided to take a video from years ago Address there was a problem with it.
What difference does it make when it was from unless you disown it?
I don't disown it at all.
Okay, so what difference does it make when it was from?
Well, here's why.
Here's why.
Because the video was talking about rape culture.
And Elena Dunham.
And as it relates to rape culture on campus.
Okay?
That's what the video was about.
It's all about rape culture and on campus.
And Lena Dunham also said she was raped.
You can lie about that, and I'll call you out right now with a lie about that.
Lena Dunham said she was raped.
Lena Dunham said she was raped when she was selling books.
Afterward, when it was proven false, she said, well, maybe not.
I found a condom in a potted plant.
That's kind of rape.
Let's be real here.
That's not at all what she said.
The one outright dishonesty here is you saying Lena Dunham didn't say that.
She claims she was raped.
This video was talking about that incident while it was topical and addressing rape culture at large and the feigned outrage from the left who don't seem to care so much about real rape cultures as they exist across the globe where it doesn't exist in the United States.
In Islamic countries, as we addressed in the video, rape is ordained.
It's allowed.
As a matter of fact, rape still occurs in the United States between Muslim couples because of Sharia courts.
An imam rules over those.
That's why a lot of marriages aren't recognized by the United States government, because all that's required is a man to go to the imam and say, divorce, divorce, divorce in the United States, and it's no longer recognized marriage.
If we want to talk about rape culture, let's talk about a rape culture.
We're not talking about Islamophobia.
We're talking about rape, buddy.
Stay on topic.
We're not talking about Islamophobia.
So there's no rape culture in Islam.
There's rape culture at Mattress Girl, UVA. If you say there's rape culture in Islam and Islam in general, we would expect to see rape in Islamic cultures as being very high, right?
Yes.
Okay.
But I can't go reported because women, unless they have four witnesses, cannot come forward, Michael.
In which it lists the top countries or the countries according to incidents of rape.
Yeah, but Michael, do you believe that these rapes are reported in Islam?
They need four witnesses?
Do you believe these women are coming forward with four witnesses?
Do you believe these women are coming forward with four witnesses, Michael?
You have to go down to what?
Is Kazakhstan predominantly Muslim?
Michael, do you understand what's required in Islam to report a rape?
You're making my point.
It's a rape culture because it's a crime that you cannot prove in Islamic culture as a woman.
It's impossible to prove.
Unless you get gang raped and everyone has an about face, they have an epiphany and say, you know what?
I was wrong in raping and running a train on that woman.
You need four witnesses, Michael.
You cannot prove it.
That's a real rape culture where a woman cannot possibly prove rape.
Steven, how did we get from Lena Dunham to Islam?
Can I answer?
And if you want to talk about Islam, you would expect that in a Muslim city in America that rape would be a real problem, yeah?
No.
Let me address that.
You said, how did we get here?
Rape culture.
Which is exactly how this conversation started.
You were offended by a video regarding rape culture.
So I've answered that question.
Now with Islam...
I don't want to talk about Islam.
You just asked me a question about Islam.
I would expect it to be higher.
I don't profess to know enough about Islam.
But you just asked me a question.
So let me answer it.
So let me answer it and then we can move forward from that.
You asked me a question.
No, I wouldn't expect them to be higher because it's a system of laws that will not recognize rape.
It is a rape culture because a woman can't come forward if she's raped.
That's my point.
I'm saying, and forgive me because I don't know.
In this country where there's a large Muslim population, would you expect to see rape incidents being higher?
No, absolutely not, because they can go unreported, and the woman can be punished if she comes forward with rape, doesn't have the amount of witnesses.
In the United States?
Yes.
Okay.
Where's the evidence of that?
Yeah, okay, well, let me explain to you.
Are you aware of how Muslim congregations work?
No.
Okay, so not every Imam can be a Sharia court judge, but every single Muslim congregation has to have a head Imam who can operate Sharia law.
In other words, who can fundamentally recognize marriages, divorce.
They have their own system of laws, much like Jewish laws.
Except very different, obviously, because they encourage rape culture.
Now, with women who are raped in Islam, they require multiple witnesses.
To come forward and say they have personally witnessed the rape.
No, they can't.
Because of their religion?
That's what I'm asking.
Yeah, they can't.
They cannot.
You're saying American Muslim women cannot come forward To complain of rape.
Very insightful, exactly.
We're talking about a real rape culture.
They're intimidated into silence, and they don't come forward.
Where's your evidence of this, that American Muslim women are not coming forward for rape, if they're raped?
In any greater numbers than the rest of America.
Today, there's a story.
81 people have accused former USA Gymnastics coach of sexual abuse.
I don't think any of them were Muslim.
I'm sure they weren't.
So, you're saying in the culture of Islam they can't come forward, but in the larger culture it's not a problem.
I'm saying there were 81 people who were victims of this dude, the USA Gymnastics coach, but that's not a problem in this culture?
I'm not aware of anyone here saying it's not a problem if 80 women are raped.
No, no.
Rape culture.
We're saying the culture of rape, the culture that excuses and let sexual abuse go.
Thank you so much for bringing that up.
Exactly.
We agree.
It is not a rape culture.
This is not a culture that allows sexual abuse to go.
There are laws against it.
Right.
81 people have accused former USA Gymnastics coach of sexual abuse.
Now, clearly, if sexual abuse was not tolerated in this nation after one person was abused by this man, it would have stopped.
But it didn't.
No.
No, that's not...
This is a total and complete non-sequitur, Michael.
How is it?
When you're talking about...
You're completely unrelated.
You're talking about a story today.
Wait, wait, wait.
You said, how is this relevant?
And I'm trying to answer you, but you're talking over me.
You've got to stay on track, buddy.
81 people have accused former USA Gymnastics coach of sexual abuse.
I just asked you if...
It's a problem in American Muslim culture that they can't come forward.
You said yes.
And then conversely, you're saying American women don't have this problem.
I'm saying in today's paper, 81 people, American people, have accused former USA Gymnastics coach of sexual abuse.
It seems like that's an apples-to-apples comparison.
You're Don Quixote fighting windmills, man.
I didn't say any of those things.
Okay, so clarify for me.
Okay.
I was talking about a real rape culture.
Yes, you keep saying real rape culture.
Yes.
And it doesn't make any more sense when you say it the fifth time or the first time.
Okay.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
And I'm saying there's a problem in the culture and you're denying it.
And then as evidence, I'm saying 81 people have accused former USA Gymnastics Church of sexual abuse.
It seems to me you're denying the experience of those 81 people because you're saying there is no culture.
It's not a problem.
Multitude of falsehoods there.
I don't know if you're doing it deliberately at this point.
I don't know if it's a flail or if you believe that I said, rape not a problem.
No, I'm saying rape culture.
The culture that allows us to happen.
Right, exactly.
So it's good.
Let's talk about that.
I never said, Stephen, that you approve of rape.
You just said that these women coming forward, that this happened, that you're saying it's not a problem.
That's what you just said.
No, I'm saying that you're saying because there's no rape culture, if there were no rape culture, then this wouldn't have happened.
Let me answer now, and then we can go back to you.
I've given you several paragraphs, and you've given me one phrase.
Okay.
I was talking about real rape cultures that exist in law.
Mysore, Quran, Hadith, Virtually every Islamic country in existence and every Islamic population, going back to the Ottoman Empire as far as rape laws and how they exist.
This is real rape culture where women are treated as second-class citizens and are unable to verifiably prove the crime of rape.
And if they come forward accusing rape and cannot prove it in a system of law that makes it impossible, the woman is punished.
My point is, that to me would be a real rape culture versus the United States where we have laws in place and virtually all Americans...
Barring a very small percentage who commit rape, find rape here completely abhorrent.
Myself included, even though you're appalled by this video.
That's my point.
Yeah, you and I agree.
You and I will always agree that rape is abhorrent, that one rape is too many.
Where we're disagreeing, it seems like, is in the broader problem in the culture, in American culture.
And we both agree that rape is a problem.
So the question is, is there a larger problem in the culture that allows sexual abuse, intimidation, harassment, assault to occur?
I'm saying there is.
You're saying there isn't.
As evidence, I'm using the CDC, which you have not just proven, and I'm citing, just looking at today's headline, 81 people have accused former USA Gymnastics coach of sexual abuse.
Now, that person would not have been allowed to get away with that for so long over so many people if there wasn't a larger problem in the culture.
Yeah.
Okay, first off, that last story is what we call anecdotal.
As far as the CDC, it has been disproven many times.
It hasn't, and you haven't done it.
Okay, again, your own sources, the FBI, we're talking about rape reported.
I think it's important to go by a definition of actual rape reported, of actual crimes of rape, versus something that you admitted you cannot define from the CDC. People reporting experiencing rape, especially in light of state statutes, as I pointed out, in California.
And they're even worse on campus.
The laws are even, the reason campus matters is because the laws are even more lenient, the rules are even more lenient, where anyone can accuse a man of rape and he can be expelled, as we saw with the UVA scandal, as we saw with Mattress Girl at Columbia.
Virtually every high-profile rape case that has been in the media in the last half a decade has been proven false and has destroyed the lives of men who did not commit rape.
So my point is there are real victims here.
The Joyce and Dusky allegations were false.
The Bill Cosby allegations are false.
This U.S. gymnastics coach.
I don't know about the U.S. gymnastics coach.
I'll give you that.
If this is in a headline today, I don't know about that.
And that could be a problem.
But again, Mattress Girl, UVA, Rolling Stone, these were high, high-profile cases.
And we're talking about actual on-campus rape.
You have absolutely quoted, too.
What about Sandusky's victims?
What about Cosby's victims?
Also high-profile.
What about Roger Ailes' victims?
Also high-profile.
Roger Ailes didn't rape anybody, but he's a scumbag.
But he didn't rape anybody.
What?
Roger Ailes didn't rape anybody.
He's a dirtbag, but he didn't rape anybody.
Right, but he did have to settle out of court.
Yeah, but can we agree motorboating Megyn Kelly in the green room is not rape?
Can we agree there?
Here's the revised FBI definition of rape.
Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person without the consent Of the victim.
So that is what I'm using for the FBI. For the FBI. Perfect.
Perfect.
So, again, that's the statistic I want to work with.
According to your statistic, there is 90-something thousand, right, per year in 2015.
Doing the math for that, because you wanted to say over a lifetime, we agree, over a lifetime, that would require 1,600 years, 1,500 to 1,600 years or so for it to be one in five women raped in a lifetime.
So the FBI statistics would reflect actually much more severely what I'm talking about from the Bureau of Justice.
I want to go by that definition.
I agree on that definition of rape.
I do not agree on the CDC definition where anyone experiences, claims that they experience rape.
I think the FBI is more accurate because we just defined it.
Can we agree?
But you haven't given me a different definition from the CDC. No, I just used your own FBI statistic, which is more valid, because it's defined.
Steven, you're saying you agree with that definition, but you don't agree with the CDC definition, but you haven't provided me with the CDC definition.
There is no definition!
The burden's on you to provide the definition if you're saying there's a rape culture.
There is no definition from the CDC. It's regretful sex.
Then you have to wait for me to look up this entire survey, the National Intimate Partner...
Michael, here's my point.
The FBI statistics and the Bureau of Justice statistics, these are official statistics of where you can verify race.
The CDC is also official.
It's a government entity.
It's not official if it's a poll.
It is official, Stephen.
How do you say the CDC isn't official?
Okay, what's more accurate, a poll or the votes in an election?
What?
The point is, you're quoting a poll.
I am quoting actual incidents of rape.
No, I'm quoting a survey.
A survey is a poll.
No, it's not a poll, Stephen.
A poll is when people voluntarily offer information.
Yes, it is.
You want me to grab a thesaurus?
Well, I guess you're right.
That is a survey.
I agree with you.
Yes, a survey is a poll.
So my point is, if we are going to go out and throw out the allegation, which, by the way, can destroy lives of young men.
Right.
Rapists should be buried beneath the train tracks.
If we're going to throw out that allegation, we need a whole lot more than a poll.
And every single verifiable statistic, including the ones that you've thrown out today from the FBI, prove the idea of one in five completely, totally false.
No, that's just not true.
Now, if we look at...
Show me the FBI statistics.
Show me the statistics of incidents of rape.
The word reported to law enforcement...
I've seen various studies that say only 30 to 40 percent are reported.
You obviously disagree with that.
Even if that were the case, we're eliminating it down to 900 years for it to be one in five.
I mean, it just doesn't add up.
It just doesn't add up.
You're going anecdotal.
No, no, let me finish here.
You're going anecdotal, and everyone watching this knows that not one in five women they know are raped.
And you know how I know?
My wife, right now as we speak, right now as we take this interview, is at a crisis pregnancy center where she volunteers.
She knows these statistics through and through, and she has to report it when rape occurs.
This is what she does.
This is what the FBI does.
And the statistics that you have given us today, when we have defined actual rape, on which we agree, the FBI or Bureau of Justice, the CDC is a poll, nowhere can you prove that there is a 1 in 5 chance of rape, a 1 in 5 incidence of rape.
Thus, there is no systematic rape culture.
Okay, so let's say you're correct.
I'll grant you that you are absolutely 100% correct.
Thank you.
What is the correct number of women who are raped over the course of a lifetime?
Yeah, it's about.03 in 5, 6.1 per thousand.
So 6.1 per thousand over the course of a lifetime.
What are you basing that on?
I'm basing it on the statistics that you've given me from the FBI and the Bureau of Justice statistics that specifically relate to campus.
You can ask me to do math, which is going to be difficult for me.
90,000 rapes in one year for law enforcement in 2015.
If we agree that, what, half of rapes are reported, 40% of rapes are reported, what do you think it is?
Let's say that.
I don't agree, but let's say that for the sake of argument, because I want you to do this math live on air.
I don't think it's going to turn out too well for you.
You might be right.
So let's say it is 40% or 30% is the number that I most commonly see that are reported, which means 70% are not reported.
So we'd have to triple that number to about 250,000 to 300,000 rapes per year.
Now, in any society that I can think of, That seems like a lot of rapes per year.
Yes, but it's not one in five.
Well, it's 300,000 per year.
Now, over the course of a lifetime, from let's say age 12, To age, what, 70?
Which is...
But first off, your cutoffs are ageist, as though no one wants to rape anybody over 70 years old.
I think that's wildly insensitive.
15% of people are ageist 12 and 17.
54 between 18 and 34.
28% between 35 and 64.
3% age 65 plus.
Michael, you said we were getting off...
No, Michael, you said we were getting off in the weeds earlier.
Would it stand to reason that we're more off in the weeds now that because of the statistics you presented, you're doing math based on assumptions that you can't verify and we're making estimates?
You and I have just agreed that 300,000 is probably a reasonable number of rapes that occur to women per year.
No, we didn't.
I said, I'll give it to you for this case, for you to be able to do your math, is what I said.
Okay, so I did my math.
So you said the number is much lower.
Yes, it's still much lower than one in five.
It's still much lower than one in five.
If it's not 90,000 reported rapes per year, which you already agreed was a good statistic, and we both agree that the number of rapes are not reported, 100% of rapes aren't reported, what is the correct number of rapes per year?
Wait, hold on a second.
Did you just say 100% of rapes aren't reported?
That's what you just said.
Oh, then I misspoke.
What I'm saying is 100% of rapes are not reported, meaning 100% of rapes, you know what I'm saying.
I think you know what I'm saying.
I don't, and I'm not trying to be a dick.
All rapes aren't reported is what I'm saying.
Yes, okay.
All rapes, you're probably saying 100% of rapes are not necessarily reported.
No, we know that 100% of rapes are not reported.
Every person that is raped does not report the rape.
We know that.
Right.
I'm giving you a lifeline there.
I'm saying what you're saying is not necessarily all rapes are reported.
You used the word 100%.
And I'm saying no.
We know for a fact that all rapes aren't reported.
Okay.
Can I try and do some math here?
Am I allowed to do that since you were doing some math there?
Of course.
Okay.
All right.
So the number you said, let's go with your number.
Was it about 300,000 over the course of a lifetime?
No, 300,000 per year.
Per year, and then multiplied over a lifetime up to about 70 years old from 12 to 70 because no one wants to rape 70-year-olds.
Well, apparently 3% of rapists do.
Well, I think we can agree that they have a special kind of sickness, Michael.
Are you sure you want to be a nightclub comic?
So, with the math, 600 years.
I can't explain that to me because 300,000 times 68, which is the rough range of years that I'm giving you.
I'm just going to do the math right now.
Now, 300,000 times 58 is 17,400,000.
Please don't ever run for president.
They're going to trot this video out.
You are right.
I agree with that number.
Okay, so now let's get back.
Can we agree that we got off on the weeds?
I would say that I was correct regarding the statistics.
Let's say we're not.
But can we agree that...
There is certainly the burden of proof on someone who is claiming a rape culture to prove such a shocking statistic, and it can't be beyond a poll, which doesn't define rape.
And so, that's a problem.
The poll does define rape.
You and I don't have the definition in front of us.
Clearly, it must, or else it wouldn't be a survey.
Well, again, if it falls under the definition of the California statute of affirmative consent, that is any regretful sex.
But we don't know what it falls under.
There's no reason to think it would fall under the California since it's a national survey.
It's a national survey, but of course would have to allow for that umbrella considering that certain states would consider that rape.
We don't know.
You and I don't know.
It's a poll, Michael.
Let's say that.
It's a poll which is very much...
These are not relied upon as evidence, as the same as reports and incidents from a federal bureau of investigation, from the FBI, or from the Bureau of Justice.
So it's not as reliable.
So to say that there is a rape culture, again, the issue at large is...
The survey from the FBI is also a poll, according to your definition.
No, it's not.
They get their numbers from the different states which report.
No, it's not, Michael.
Yes, it is.
That's how they get it.
They get it from incidents of rape that actually are reported criminally.
Yeah, from each state.
Yes, would we not agree that that is probably, even if you say only 40% of rapes, as we gave you, even if you say only 40% of rapes, but I don't agree to you, but I'm giving to you for the sake of argument.
I'm saying that's a very high estimate of the number that are reported.
Well, not if you consider people like Lena Dunham who come out and claim rape and then we find out that it's verifiably false, but let's assume 40% of rapes are reported.
You haven't found that out and you haven't presented any evidence that's verifiably false.
What you're doing is you're denying her experience.
First off, I believe in a system of law.
That was my original intention, writing holy shit to video, because what you're doing is you're denying something that she experienced, and you have no idea.
Well, the burden of proof is on her when she's making an allegation of crime.
She did not.
She made an allegation of a personal experience.
She said she was raped.
She didn't make an allegation of crime.
Holy crap, Michael.
If you say I was raped, is that not a crime?
Of course it is.
Then she accused someone of a crime.
She accused someone who she used the name Barry about National Treasury of the College Republicans, where she was.
We were easily able to find a time frame.
That person was easily able to be found.
And we were easily able to trace it back and see if that incident had occurred.
And she afterward walked it back.
But it is a crime.
To say I was raped is to accuse someone of a crime, Michael.
She said the person who people found wasn't the person that she said.
I'll quote her to you.
Michael, you said she didn't accuse anyone of a crime, saying I was raped.
Did someone commit a crime?
She did not specifically name the person.
Michael, is that an accusation of a crime being committed, Michael?
For someone who wants to use a poll as data, is someone saying I'm raped?
It's a very simple question.
If I say I'm raped, was a crime committed?
Am I making a claim of a crime?
Yes, you are, but there's a difference between making a claim of a crime and accusing somebody of a crime.
Okay, let's go with that.
Let's say it's a claim of a crime, because that would still be filed under that poll.
I am saying, and this is important, because I think you're a little, you might have a blind spot here, just as far as being a little bit out of touch with what people see as rape.
People would even read Lena Dunham's own story, most people did, when she accused We're good to go.
You're conflating her experience with the CDC's statistic, and you and I don't know.
So we believe that she would not be included in the CDC's statistic of rape.
When she said she was raped, she claimed she was raped flat out, and we're saying that the CDC would not include her when they include people who claim experiencing rape?
I suppose they would.
Yes, they would.
And my point is that would, of course, inflate a statistic that would be completely and totally irreconcilable with the actual statistics that we have from the FBI and the Bureau of Justice.
So let's say that the actual claim is what?
The actual number of women who are raped.
And we're only talking about rape now.
We're not talking about sexual intimidation.
We're not talking about sexual harassment.
We're not talking about stalking.
We're not talking about grabbing by the pussy or by whatever it is.
We're only talking about rape.
That that number is what?
1 in 20?
No, I gave you the number.
It's about 6.1 and 1,000.
But you haven't given me any basis for that number other than the Bureau of Justice.
Okay, we're going to keep arguing this until we're blue in the face.
I use your statistics and the Bureau of Justice.
Because your statistic is bullshit, and you know it's bullshit.
Right, let's go with the poll that includes Lena Dunham because she found a condom and a plant.
Michael, the point is that...
The CDC is a government agency that...
Michael, the point is you keep changing, you keep moving the goalposts.
The Bureau of Justice, the study that you said has only to do with college.
No, no, Michael.
I'm also using the FBI statistics.
So the reason I'm giving you...
Okay, Michael, I need you to understand that I'm giving you a gift here, okay?
And let me explain how.
I'm happy to receive any gifts you give me.
Thank you very much, and I appreciate you coming on the show, and I genuinely am a fan of a lot of the work that you've done, so I wish this could have been more amicable.
I am using your statistics, the FBI statistics, which are very unforgiving to your stance, okay?
In using the Bureau of Justice statistics, which would actually be more lenient on definitions of rape, because it would go by college reportings of rape, not even We're
good to go.
To prove that we have a rape culture.
And so my point is, when I go out and I make a video setting these exact statistics about rape culture, and you respond, holy sh**, it's appalling, the burden on you is to prove it, I don't believe you've done that effectively today.
I understand.
I'm saying that the sketch that you created in the video is appalling and not funny.
There we go.
The famous leftist attack.
Not funny.
That's not an argument.
No, no.
It's just my opinion.
I agree.
It's just my opinion.
Sure.
And the opinion of your audience is going to be that you're becoming decreasingly funny as you become a social justice warrior for causes that you can't prove.
Yeah.
Michael, you've been so smug tonight and you've been so smug and condescending in your wrongness.
It's remarkable.
If you want to talk about smug and condescending, which I don't, when you continually say, you've got to stay on track, buddy, that's smug and condescending.
No, smug and condescending is to say you have no proof and then cite completely irrelevant statistics.
I will leave it to people to go through all the statistics that I cited to determine whether or not they're relevant.
My only point...
And remains my only point.
Is that the video you made.
Right.
And the sketch specifically within the video.
Is offensive.
Is not funny.
Is appalling.
Sure.
And demeans and diminishes somebody's experience.
And by doing that.
And I don't look.
And your rape jokes don't.
I don't know Lena Dunham.
I don't have a particularly strong opinion about Lena Dunham.
And your rape jokes don't.
But what I do have a strong opinion about is people...
In my life who have undergone difficult, questionable sexual experiences in which they felt like they were victimized, shamed, harassed, or intimidated.
And by doing a video where you're creating a cartoon of somebody Right.
Because a kid with a YouTube channel and a wildly unpopular opinion that's never accepted in the entertainment industry, making fun of someone who has a deal with the biggest network in all of television, Lena Dunham with HBO, that's punching down.
I would say, I'm sorry you don't find it funny.
I would say, I'm sorry, let me respond.
I would say, I'm sorry you don't find it funny.
That is punching down.
Right, kind of like when you tweeted, what kind of rape?
Straight up rape or funny rape?
Because you might think a funny rape was funny.
So you've made plenty of rape jokes.
You just don't like it.
What is that in reference to?
This was in reference to Kumail Kumaji regarding the Daniel Tosh saga about the rape joke.
The point is, this is far less sensitive.
Clearly what I was doing was making fun of the idea that rape could be funny.
No.
Right, that's sarcasm right there.
Clearly, I'm not saying rape is funny.
I'm saying the opposite.
Sarcasm is a tool used in the absence of wit.
So we're saying that my issue, of course I'm not funny, but your opposite day humor is funny.
I'm saying that sketch wasn't funny.
Right, and I'm saying opposite day sarcasm is very lazy.
Wait, can you see me because it's getting dark in my room?
Am I too dark or am I alright?
You look marvelous.
Okay.
What I am saying is, what kind of rape, straight-up rape or funny rape?
No, as a matter of fact, I don't believe that anyone would read that and say that you are condemning Daniel Tosh for the idea that rape would be funny.
So I think that's lazy comedy.
But here's the thing.
I don't find it offensive, and I find you funny regardless.
My point is, you have made far more rape jokes, with far less context, without actually making rape jokes to make a point, actually pointing towards statistics, as I did in that video, where I was pointing out not only the problem with rape culture at large in Islam, this is the video, but the verifiably false statistic of 1 in 5, and I used that, and I used a topical issue with Lena Dunham's claim of a crime at that point to make my point, you have made rape jokes willy-nilly, With no context whatsoever, which would be far less sensitive.
But here's the thing.
We're in a modern state of comedy, and this is a sad state of comedy where comedians have to sit here and talk about what's demeaning, what's appalling, and is no longer acceptable.
I find it remarkable.
And I didn't say it wasn't acceptable.
I said it was not funny and appalling.
It's acceptable, certainly.
Your audience enjoys it.
You demanded that I recant it.
I asked if you recanted it because you brought it up as a video that was a couple years old.
There's no more appropriate role of a comedian than demanding someone recant.
It suggested to me that you had an issue with it.
Michael, Michael, comedy is going to die a slow death if there are more people with your mindset.
Here's my issue here.
I'm doing alright, buddy.
Eh, debatable.
If you look at the social media interactions, you're having some problems because people are thinking you're going off the deep end, Michael.
That's an issue right now.
Say that again.
I didn't understand that.
Okay.
You have several million followers and you have several million fans because you've had a leg up because you've been in a very friendly industry with big networks.
You've been on these networks.
I applaud you.
So you have a huge, huge platform.
And you have remarkably low interactivity and you can see as it steadily decreased along with your self-important There's accusations leveled at other comedians as to what they can and can't say or what is appalling and what is not appalling.
And I think you're going to dig your own grave.
Did I say that you could or could not say anything?
You said it was appalling and asked me to recant, which I don't think is something a comedian should ever do.
I didn't ask you to recant.
I asked if you did.
I'd never asked you to recant, and I never would.
Did I, at any point, say that you are not allowed to say that or that you shouldn't say that?
I don't think I did.
Did I say you don't have the right to say it?
I don't think I did.
What I said was, it's not funny and it's appalling and I stand by that.
It's not funny and it is appalling.
Yeah, and that's what you have to preface your argument with because you have no argument.
Thank you very much.
We had to spend an hour arguing, but you had no argument.
So you have to preface it with it's not funny, it's appalling, and therefore here are my arguments, which aren't very strong.
All I can say is you didn't move the needle with me at all, and I clearly didn't move the needle with you at all.
I don't know if we were just talking past each other or we were just arguing over statistics for an hour.
But nothing that you said to me was compelling in the sense that the video, the sketch portion of the video that I was commenting on in any way helped in any way move the conversation forward about either rape or, we both agree, the problematic term rape culture.
Well, we don't agree on problematic.
I think it's an inaccurate term.
I would say that this is a very strong lesson, as you'll see by the feedback after this debate.
I hope you come back on the show.
As to punching down, which I think...
Wait, you're saying I'm punching down to you?
Yes.
I'm coming on your show and I'm going to be dealing with your audience for the next week and a half yelling at me.
Kicking and screaming someone in the entertainment industry who is surrounded by people with the exact same opinion and you found an old video.
You're mad at me for being thoughtful about the way that I came on your show as opposed to just saying thanks for coming on the show.
Well I did say thanks for coming on the show.
I've gone out of my way for the last three weeks to try to get on the show and to try to make it work after I thought about it and consulted with the people that I consulted with.
I don't know who these people are you consulted with, but I'm glad that they...
I agree, and I'm not going to name them because I think that would be irresponsible because I've already identified them as rape victims.
Ah, okay, okay.
So we're into the realm back of the anecdotal, where you've identified people as rape victims who you've consulted with, therefore the poll is accurate.
Stephen, you used your wife anecdotally.
You said my wife deals with this all day, every day.
That's anecdotal.
Well, I used that pointing to statistics and the statistics that they used.
You used the 81 people accused of former USA as anecdotal.
That was you!
I didn't even know about that story!
It's a dead spin.
But you just said I brought it up.
You brought it up, Michael.
Yeah, I brought it in, but you said I used it anecdotally.
Why would I use it anecdotally?
That was your story.
No, Stephen, when I referred to it, you said that I was being anecdotal by referring to it.
Okay.
I would say go to the tail of the tape.
You brought up that story and used it anecdotally.
I did bring up this.
I absolutely brought up this story.
Okay, so then I didn't bring it up anecdotally.
Michael Ian Black, I really do appreciate you taking the time.
Listen, maybe I didn't move the needle with you.
Maybe you didn't move the needle with me, but we'll see.
However, what people think about rape culture, if it's a problem, you can tweet me at S. Crowder.
You can tweet Michael at Michael Ian Black.
We certainly know what your audience is going to think of it, and I'm prepared for that abuse.
Yes.
Actually, I think my audience is remarkably respectful.
I think you'll be surprised, but they'll disagree with you statistically.
And I think they'll present those statistics, and I would encourage them to do so.
I would encourage them to respect the fact that Michael Ian Black did have the balls to come up on the program.
Not many people do.
We know this.
It's a problem booking leftist guests.
Leftists generally don't like to go on other programs.
Most people don't.
They don't like getting out of their echo chambers.
They have immense respect for you doing so.
Just as we're going to talk about Alan Combs, who was a friend of mine, I respect his willingness to stand in there and do it.
And I am saying right now to my audience, anyone watching, even if they disagree with you, please keep it respectful.
Please keep it civil.
And if you have evidence that you think is required reading for Michael Ian Black, you can tweet him at Michael Ian Black.
And really, I do hope that you come back on the program and hopefully next time it's less heated.
I do appreciate you doing it, sir.
First of all, thank you, Stephen.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for asking your people to be respectful.
And whether they are or not, I don't really care.
And thank you for allowing me to speak in full paragraphs, even if I was running roughshod over you at times.
I apologize for that.
I do get passionate.
And listen, I appreciate your passion, and I do appreciate you coming on the show, even if we disagree.
And at any point, if people take out the torch and pitchforks for you, because they do it for all of us, every single comedian, I will still be there to defend you, regardless of how much I disagree with it.
You have my word, sir.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for having me, and I'll be happy to come back on when you want me.
Thank you.
At Michael Ian Black.
Up next, gosh, this is going to be a long show.
We will have Pogo, famous musician, and that'll be a little more lighthearted.
Thank you so much.
We'll be right back. - Looks like Timmy's in for a checkup because he's feeling sluggish.
Oh, Timmy, just as the doctor suspected, you have IEDS, Informative Entertainment Deficiency Syndrome.
The good news is there's a cure for that.
LottoWithCryder.com slash mugclub.
For only $99 annually, $69 for students, active military, or veterans, you can cure yourself of the plague that is IEDS. All right, all right, everybody sit down.
Time to start the double-secret patriarchy meeting.
On today's item list, how to preserve rape culture.
Any suggestions?
Yes, feel cool.
Yeah, I was thinking, like, what if we just make sure that nobody goes to jail for rape?
That's brilliant!
The ladies will never see it coming.
That's a surefire way to make sure we can still rape, carefree, anyone else?
Yes, Perry.
Well, I was thinking, rather than not sending anybody to actual prison for rape...
How about we just declare rape to no longer be a crime?
Truly, your brilliance is astounding.
We know enough judges here at this double-secret patriarchy meeting who'd be willing to oblige.
Rape will be legal, that's for sure.
Anyone else?
Yes, how about you?
Miss Jenner, we told you, you're not welcome here anymore.
Yeah, I know.
I just come here for the refreshments, mostly, and to...
Get out of the house, but I still do have my penis.
You still have your penis, you say?
Uh-huh, yeah, yeah.
A lot of people don't know that, but I can go back any time I want.
Hmm, that's murky territory.
We'll have to put that to a vote.
In the meantime, what's your suggestion?
Yeah, well, I was just saying, how about we let...
People like me going to the little girls' room.
I think that'd be pretty good for rape culture.
Astounding!
Do we dare?
A Trojan in a Trojan!
I wear magnums, actually.
The principle's the same.
Oh, there you have it.
Rape will no longer be a crime, and men with their penises intact will be able to go into the ladies' room.
Oh, this will be a bright day for all mankind and the preservation of the all-important Western rape culture.
Meeting adjourned, and keep your refreshments down to a one per attendee maximum.
Caitlin, I'm looking at you.
See you next Tuesday.
All right.
So is that the clip just cut out?
It just cut out.
You didn't even have it going anymore.
Okay, for those who want to know, what was that?
Why were we playing it longer?
People online are excited for people who don't know.
They're out of their mind excited.
Before I introduce this next guest, let me tell you something.
I hate him, but here's why.
Because he makes me very sad.
When I see the workload that he puts out and how much he is brimming with talent, when you actually go and check out his...
It's one of those things where you watch and you just...
You can't look yourself in the mirror.
You just feel bad about yourself.
You can't do it.
It was like Dennis Miller with stand-up comedy in his prime.
You know him as Pogo from the land under Pogo.
Thank you for being with us, sir.
Oh, it's my pleasure, buddy.
Thanks so much for having me on.
How's it going?
Oh, it's going really well, and I'm going to try not to fanboy.
Likewise, man, likewise.
You guys have plumped my beats for too long.
I appreciate it.
I appreciate you letting us do it and not hitting us with a copyright strike.
We wish we could say the same for Shia LaBeouf.
Oh, I might be working on it.
Yeah, exactly.
All of a sudden, we'll be hit with three hard strikes, and we're done with Crowder now.
So, I mean, we have so much to get into.
Let me ask you this first off.
For people who don't know, wonderful musician, DJ. But for a while, I was like, hey, man, do you want to come on the show?
You're like, I don't really know if that's my thing.
And now I've seen you.
You're sort of being more outspoken personally.
And you're incredibly articulate, cerebral.
What was the reason for the change?
I appreciate the compliments.
The change?
I don't know.
I just kind of realized that Pogo...
It can be more than just an outlet for music.
Like, I want to meet people through my work, and I have, and I want to meet more people.
And you guys have inspired me.
I mean, you know, when you go to my SoundCloud channel, it's just Pogo, it's just music.
But when you go to Loud with Crowder, it's like, you know, it's what you see is what you get.
It's you, it's Jared.
And I really love that idea.
Well, you know, it's fascinating because sometimes we from the other side are like, you know, people want us to talk about politics a lot or culture a lot.
Sometimes we'll just do videos that are just pure comedy.
You know, I started as a comedian.
So on the flip side, people are like, hey, there's no point to this.
Why are you uploading this?
Well, I think you probably understand as a creative mind, you want to be able to do all of the above, but no one's being forced to consume it.
That's right.
Yeah, you've got a sort of neat expectation, I suppose.
I've done so many Disney remixes, and to be honest with you, I'm getting over it slightly.
I did kind of put up the Robin Hood thing recently, so I've got to backtrack a bit there.
But you kind of want to break out of your box, you know, a little bit, and it sounds like you know how it feels.
I mean, that's how I found you, the Disney remixes.
It was actually Hook a long time before we were even using your bumps.
But you do a lot of other content, too.
A lot of people don't maybe realize.
I mean, how many albums do you have out there?
I've got at least, I want to say, four just on Spotify that I have as download offline.
Yeah, and there's Bandcamp stuff as well.
Mostly, I think it's about four or five.
That's right, yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
I've done a Scarface mix not too long ago.
There was Terminator up there, so there's a bit of a mixture for everybody.
So is the progression you move from G Films, Disney, to Terminator and Scarface?
Yeah, and porn's coming up next.
Yeah, exactly.
That's what's going to happen.
People are just going to be a bunch of 14-year-olds.
Oh, you need to tune into Pogo.
They say naughty things and it's remixed.
Forget Fox News.
We've got something better.
Forget the leg camera on Fox News.
It's like the cable channel with the squiggly lines that you couldn't quite get, only it's audio.
Yeah.
For those people who don't know, this is the first time we've ever spoken.
I told Jared, I was like, I want to talk to him on air because I want people to see what a real reaction is like from two people meeting.
So you're in Australia and you've taken a pretty active, I guess, sort of stance on, maybe it's Australia as well, but the American cultural, political sort of landscape, maybe not actively endorsing anyone, but I mean, you've gotten flack for simply even retweeting people.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, you caught me.
I'll confess.
I did tweet something to the effect that I like Trump.
I like the way that he's not afraid to speak his mind.
He'd rather discuss issues instead of dance on eggshells around feelings.
He's got his extreme side, I suppose, but I think he's a necessary change in the winds.
I think he's an F5 twister that just needs to go straight down that street.
LAUGHTER I don't know.
Just barrel roll past Congress.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, well, that's the problem.
Yeah, I don't know.
I won't pretend to be an expert on the issues, but yeah, it's difficult, man.
It's like, is Pogo a...
Is he a musician or is it a political mouthpiece?
It's hard striking that balance when you've got so many people listening to you.
I don't think of you at all as a political mouthpiece.
I think of you as someone who has an introspective look on society as a whole.
And I think that's a lot of the people sort of online on YouTube who have maybe sort of political opinions.
I really think of it more so culturally.
I will tell you...
I've met a lot of Australians in my travels, and unlike a lot of, well, first off, Canada, where I was raised, where everyone just hates Americans, and of course most Europeans, but we don't need to deal with them right now, Australians seem to be a little more level-headed, and there doesn't seem to be this anti-American streak.
Am I incorrect about that?
Are you guys just putting on a good face when you're at the hot tub at the Belamar Hotel?
No.
No, you're pretty much on the dot.
You can tune into the radio station here and you will hear Australians trying to be Americans in hip-hop music, etc.
We're very far from anti-American.
We're actually almost entirely American ourselves.
But, yeah, I think you've pretty much on the mark.
We are pretty level-headed.
We do sort of give everybody a fair voice, a fair go, and that's one of the things I'm proud of as an Australian.
Yeah.
Has the PC sort of social justice warrior culture hit Australia yet, or is that more of an American microcosm?
Yeah, the SJWs are here in full force.
There's a TV advert at the moment run by one of the major banks where they've got two kids.
The one's a girl, the one's a boy.
The girl looks at the boy and says, you know, if I found out you had a vagina, I wouldn't pay you less.
And the boy looks at the girl and literally just starts laughing and yawning.
And I guess in their mind, they're trying to make, you know, the right look unsympathetic.
But I think ironically, they're just making the left look even stupider.
So I don't know.
You tune into the radio here.
There's people badmouthing Trump supporters.
You know, Trump supporters are moronic.
They're deplorable, etc.
You know, I mean, what better way to spark conversation with somebody than to throw them around the room?
But, yeah, and there's just all the Black Lives Matter stuff is coming over here as well.
You walk through the department store, and there's just all sorts of music about Black Lives this, Black Lives that.
Isn't it an African-American movement in the first place?
No, no, no.
That would be far too logical.
It's an Australian-African movement, I guess, as well.
We had that in Canada, too.
And kids would try and act like they were from the...
Well, Drake.
Well, I'm sure you know Drake.
Drake is a butter-soft bitch, half-Jewish kid from the nicest area of Toronto.
And now he talks like he's from Memphis.
It's like, that's fine if you want to take creative license, but it's not genuine.
And then they're so obsessed with being real, bro.
There's nothing less real.
Yeah.
It's a farce.
So this is a PSA. It's a far cry from kids don't play with blasting caps.
Now to pay those with vaginas more.
It's a PSA put out by a political party?
Just by the bank themselves.
In fact, they've pledged, I don't know how recent this was, it might have been last year, but they've pledged to deposit extra cash into the female employees of their company, I guess, to prove that they don't pay, discriminate, etc., etc.
I don't know.
I find all of it kind of divisive at the end of the day.
Yeah, and then the one male accountant at the end of the year going through the books.
What is all this redecorating costs?
What happened?
That's right.
Yes.
And you'll be guilty by association just from being on this program with that joke.
Yeah, that's right.
Sorry.
No, no, go ahead.
I was going to say, I did notice there was a feminist who was mad with you.
By the way, for people who haven't listened, is your YouTube channel just slash Pogo?
Yes.
Okay.
Slash Pogo.
By the way, good going getting that one quickly, because it seems like a lot of people would have been jockeying for Pogo.
That's right.
I had to go to court.
Yes.
There was one feminist who was mad.
Like, I liked Pogo until I found out how sickening his comments were about feminism.
And I remember watching any comments you've ever made about feminism on any program and read them in print, and they were all entirely reasonable.
Do you know who I'm talking about?
Is it just some random commenter or was it someone with a platform?
There's been more than one man.
I don't keep track.
I don't really care.
They never really engage me in a discussion anyway.
It's just, you know, misogynist this, misogynist that.
No, I don't know who you're talking about.
Sorry, what was the comment?
I don't know.
They were just saying that you were a horrible person for your comments about feminism.
This is all I remember because it's what spurred me to look.
I didn't have any ideas to what your opinions were.
And it's what spurred me to look up.
I was like, oh man, well maybe he said some really and I read it and I go, oh.
That's about what I think.
Right.
Yeah.
No, it's why I love watching your guys show.
I was there on the presidential election day.
I was up at like five o'clock in the morning.
You guys went all through.
You were streaming for like six hours.
What was it?
Seven?
Yes.
Yes.
It was a long time.
Yeah.
God, you guys were so tired.
But I remember getting up early because I wanted to see who was going to win.
Yeah.
And I just remember when Hillary didn't show face on stage and they brought someone out to say, go home, everybody, go back to bed.
It didn't look good.
It didn't look good for this.
We just laughed our asses off at that.
The most fun that night was tuning into the Young Turks stream at the same time, and they were just having a meltdown.
Yes, that was genius.
I don't know what copyright laws that violates.
You know, it's funny.
We were so tired.
The true story about that is, so we were across the country.
We were in a studio, you know, that old den studio.
And when we were done, my wife had already moved.
I was in that house, not gay, Jared knows, small house, completely empty.
I had a mattress on the floor and our studio, and that was it.
Oh my God.
And after that live stream, it was six something hours.
We tore down...
What was it, Jared?
Was it 4 a.m.?
It was...
Yeah, we tore down from like 2 to 4 a.m.
2 to 4 a.m.
And I just looked at the house and I was...
You know, it's sad memories of the house I got married in.
I looked and it was empty.
I said, you know what?
I can't do this.
And we never went to sleep.
Me and my friend drove another 16 hours.
Yeah, 16 hours.
That was that 24-hour cycle.
Took me like weeks to recover.
But I remember us sitting there going...
Can you believe this?
This election?
All of us were just not really in shock, but just sort of processing it.
Right.
Yeah, it was a big one.
But I've got to take my hat off to you guys.
I mean, you guys, I thought you stayed fairly neutral throughout the whole thing.
I didn't know who won until you guys let it go at the very end.
I think you did a really good job.
Well, thank you.
You know, I appreciate that.
And I think, you know, you made some comments, like you said, supporting Trump.
Here's something that I'm maybe concerned about, too, is obviously we weren't really pro-Trump in the primaries.
We didn't hate him.
Then when he was against Hillary Clinton, we tried to be somewhat objective, support him where we could.
I think and now there's these sort of two factions, right?
The social justice left where it's just everything is offensive.
But you're seeing this sort of breakout now on the Trump side where any criticism is met with this vitriolic anger as well.
And I think there are more people like me, Jared, and yourself who are like, well, he's not ideal, but I don't hate him.
Look, he's not the Sam Harris I would have preferred.
He's not the Christopher Hitchens I would have liked or the Richard Dawkins, but I don't know.
He's got a pair of balls on him, for Christ's sake.
Let's give him that.
He does.
He does.
He's an entertainer.
Yeah, I mean, I guess that's kind of – do you think that's kind of what it takes?
Do you think that's why Bernie kind of lost out?
I think Bernie lost out because he's a crazy person.
Fair enough.
It's funny.
So were you – you liked Bernie before Trump?
Was that your transition?
No.
No?
Okay.
I never even really – I didn't pay much attention to Bernie.
All I remember is someone stole one of his last rallies from him.
They stole the mic or something to that effect.
And that was more or less the end.
It was Black Lives Matter.
Yeah, that's right.
They just pushed him off.
Do you think the left is responsible for Trump?
Yeah, I do.
I really do.
And here's the thing, too.
I think they're really responsible because there's been so...
And I'm curious as to what it's like in Australia, if you see this happening now or if it's already happened.
They were so bad for so long and everything was racist, everything was sexist, everything was homophobic.
And we actually wrote an article and a lot of conservatives got mad with that famous remember Obama poster But it was replaced with Hillary instead of hope it said bitch and we said watch bitch is going to be the new n-word Because I used to say if you use the word socialist or anything or anti-american you secretly meant the n-word because you were racist and sure enough It was the switch when Hillary Clinton was the candidate where everyone who was racist overnight was now sexist and And I think that's what pushed people over the edge.
They voted.
They said, you know what?
Screw this.
I don't know.
Is that what you see there in Australia?
Kind of observing from afar?
Yeah.
Look, I was queuing up for a Big Mac at McDonald's and they had a big newspaper on the counter.
And you open up page three, so you just go three pages into it, and they're in like type size 20 or whatever it is, is like, it's a misogynist world.
I've never seen type as big as this, by the way.
And it's like, that's just somehow culturally, you know, okay.
And there's a picture of this old lady talking to these little girls at school about how much the world hates them because of their vaginas and, you know, how evil the world is towards women.
Right.
Yeah.
Every time I look at this stuff, I just think, you know, you couldn't be more divisive if you tried.
You couldn't be more counterintuitive to attaining equality if you were paid to do it.
It's just, it's crazy.
And ironically, they say hate.
I mean, vaginas are one of our favorite things.
So it's just...
That's right.
They take something that should be the great uniter and somehow turn it into an evil animal with nasty pointy teeth.
Yeah.
Now it's the wedge between the sexes.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, exactly.
And in need of a wedge sometimes.
So we're talking about, in Australia, what are your political parties like?
Where I was from in Quebec, I'm always curious.
In Quebec, we had liberals, like, really, and then we had liberal separatists, because they always wanted to separate from Canada.
Does Australia really even have, like, a true conservative wing or libertarian wing?
Again, I'm pretty ignorant with this.
I think we have a party called Greens, which is kind of the liberal side of things.
Okay.
And then we also have Labour.
Okay.
Do you guys have a Labour Party there?
No.
I'm pretty sure Labour is still, like, pretty far left.
That would be, like, really pro-union and kind of socialism, I would imagine.
Right.
Okay.
So, I mean, but I don't know.
I mean, there's certain things, you know, for example, I mean, Australians would look at Americans and think we're super far right wing, but our corporate tax rate is, is it 36%, 37%?
It's way, way higher than Australia.
So the politicization that breaks out geographically sometimes...
You know, people just like, oh, Americans are right wing with over a 30% corporate tax rate.
That's ridiculous to Australians.
Do you know what the income tax rates are in Australia?
Do you have any idea?
Well, my dad pays about 50%.
He's in medicine.
He does radiology and he pays at least half of his income away.
Yeah, that's crazy.
And do you still have a lot of people saying it's not fair and they want to take more?
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
No, look, the socialists are on their way for sure.
People want to get more for doing less.
And I don't like it.
I don't like it at all.
Have you always been this way?
Because it's clear that you have a very clear work ethic.
I mean, from just the output, it's clear that you work really hard.
Have you always sort of leaned this way of rugged individualism or did it happen later in life?
Yeah, it didn't really happen until I guess the early 20s.
I don't think you really know how the world works at the age of 20.
We've just elected someone into parliament here at the age of 20.
Really?
Yeah.
It's like the Doogie Howser of politics.
Holy crap.
Yeah, that's it.
That's it.
Yeah, I always believe very strongly in personal accountability.
Taking ownership of, you know, your choices and your actions.
I've always believed in that.
So, I guess, like, is there such...
Could you...
Like, can you be a conservative libertarian?
Or is that kind of counter...
No.
No, absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, libertarian is considered very much a part of the conservative wing.
Now, why do you ask that?
Do you think of libertarian as kind of center-left?
Well, they're kind of switching places at the moment, aren't they?
I mean, I'm finding that...
Like, classic libertarianism is no longer trendy.
Right.
Yeah.
It's kind of been replaced with sort of populism, like the Trumpism kind of thing, and it's certainly not libertarian.
It's certainly not small government.
But it's funny that you ask that, because I think here in the United States, everyone kind of unilaterally thinks of libertarian as more conservative.
I think fiscally conservative, socially liberal.
That's kind of how I was always described.
They think of them pretty much as conservatives who want to smoke pot.
Yeah, gay marriage, pot, whatever, but don't tax me.
Yeah, that's about it.
Does that exist in Australia, like libertarians?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, pretty much.
That's pretty much where the Greens are coming in.
Oh, okay.
They're just losing their seats to 20-year-olds.
Yeah, too often it goes far left.
You know, there's a really interesting thing that happened to me the other day.
Have you guys heard of the Dakota Access Pipeline project?
Yeah, Dakota Access Pipeline.
What's her name from the Guide to Your Stars?
That girl, the Insurgent series.
That girl, that actress.
Oh, Shane Lillard.
She was showing up and protesting like a semi-retard.
Continue.
Yeah, it's crazy.
But anyway, I got emailed by the people protesting whose families were getting arrested by the cops for, I guess, you know, holding a production, getting in the ways of contracted work, sabotaging equipment.
And they asked me, can you make some kind of, you know, track about this?
Like, can you maybe remix?
Like, if I send you footage of the guys protesting, can you remix it and help raise awareness of this?
And I'm kind of two minds about it.
This is kind of where I'm on the fence because one of the – I don't know if you guys have seen my whole World Remix project where I take a camera and a mic into the real world and I do what I do with movies but with people and with cultures.
And one of the first things I thought of doing was doing Native American culture, like finding a campfire, like the classic sort of Red Indian tribes and doing a remix around that.
Right.
And I thought, well, I'd like to do something like this, but I don't know how I feel about putting, you know, political agenda behind music.
Right.
I think music needs to stay a universal language.
And I can't stand this new like far left hip hop that I'm hearing on the radio now.
Cough, Beyonce, lemonade, cough.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's it.
Yeah, it's just nuts.
But that's pretty much going ahead now, right?
That project is pretty much great.
Yeah, yeah, it is, which is fantastic.
By the way, Beyonce's in the Illuminati.
That's the real problem there.
Get your facts correct.
We meet on Tuesdays.
Yeah, I... You know, I don't have a problem with it as long as people accept the consequences.
But it's a little different because I come from the world of comedy.
You know, particularly while I was an actor first in stand-up comedy in my mid-teens, did that really up until sort of Fox and the news thing.
In stand-up comedy, it's sort of expected for you to fillet yourself in a way where you open up about your opinions.
You know, some people get away without doing it.
But most comedians I know at least dabble in the realm of politics and culture.
With music, I think with comedy, people are going in to hear your thoughts on the world.
With music, often, I think like films, they're going to escape the world.
So I think maybe you're right on that.
But I do think, you know, there's also the other part of me that says everyone else is doing it.
So I wouldn't mind seeing Pogo dip his toe into the water.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Yeah.
Yeah, I tried to keep the Trumpular piece as neutral as I could because I didn't know if he was going to win or not, and I didn't really want to lose any followers.
Pogo does pay my bills.
I want to be careful.
Sure.
And I have actually...
I did get a prospective client wanting me to make a Bernie Sanders remix, and I was like, let me get back to you on that.
Not a very melodic voice, either.
It'd be tough to work with.
One percent!
Oh, God.
Yeah, that's it.
I have to get the auto-tune on maximum.
But I have to kind of walk a tightrope.
And one of the things that I have found recently is that there's a line between, like...
Your art and yourself as a person.
Sure.
Like, if you go onto my SoundCloud and you like my stuff, you retweet it, you post it, you comment on it, it's got nothing to do with me, really.
Like, I'm actually very different from my music.
Like, you listen to Alice and Wishery, you think of someone who's light and fluffy and bubbly and optimistic.
I'm actually kind of the opposite in a lot of ways.
Yeah.
At least I have been since my balls dropped.
Yes.
My s*** has changed.
Yeah.
Well, hold on.
Let's not put s*** balls in the same sentence.
That just creates a visual that no one needs.
No, that's wrong.
No, it doesn't surprise me though.
Really creative people, and I mean, clearly you are, tend to be conflicted because, you know, you can't tell someone to, you know, and that's one thing you talked about with Tommy Sotomayor on social media, right?
You were talking about sort of shutting off social media, and I know a lot of people say, don't be so sensitive.
I would imagine it's pretty hard for someone to tell you that because there has to be a hypersensitivity to be able to watch a film that everyone else just watches and says that's a good movie and create an entire song and melody out of it.
You have to be more sensitive than the average person to be creative.
Right.
Don't be more sensitive.
I don't remember that reaction.
Well, I just mean, as far as online, like when people say, you know, you're like, well, if you look at social media, it can be toxic.
And you'll get people on social media, if ever we mention those things, like, ah, who cares?
People insult you online.
Who cares?
Don't be sensitive.
It's like, well, yeah, but everyone has a reaction.
It doesn't mean you're hypersensitive or offended.
It's just, as a creative person, you're going to react to people responding to your art.
I don't think it's got anything to do with sensitivity.
I think we have a culture now in which you've got your self-image in a smartphone.
You've got your self-worth in your pocket, in a slab.
And that's not just the sensitive ones of us, that's everybody.
And my angle was, you know, it'd be nice to try and cut back on that.
You know, instead of going for likes and retweets, how about we go for hugs and kisses and human connections for a change, you know, back in the good old days.
That was my angle about it.
Yeah.
Well, I think it's a good point.
And I think it's tough because obviously you also make your living through this sort of, you know, there's no more gatekeepers with social media.
Absolutely.
It's a big conflict.
Yeah.
How do you balance that?
Sorry.
How do you balance that?
Geez, I don't know.
Well, I haven't been on Facebook in two weeks now, like I said in my vid.
It's been great.
I kind of find, I don't know, Facebook is just a torrent of memes and gifs.
You know, it's just people hungry for social validation.
You know, three seconds of ha-ha here and there.
I find no substance in it at all.
And I'd be less insulted if you wrapped your lips around a revolver than thumbed through it in front of me.
You know what I mean?
I find that offensive.
I really do.
I've made an effort to make a connection with you and you're just thumbing through pictures of your mates shitting into a blender.
Maybe the problem is your friends.
Yeah, well, that's just it.
It's like, are these my friends anymore or are they like pixel pals?
Right.
I don't know.
We're just kind of crossing over into a digital age.
I don't know if I like the direction.
I don't know if I like the culture.
I think if I could go at it physically, I'd go at it with a flamethrower strapped to a pulse rifle.
I don't like it.
At the same time, I think it's great.
It's obviously really useful.
I'll be the first to put my hand up and say I've met a lot of people through it.
And without Pogo and without social media, I don't know where I'd be socially.
But it's becoming toxic.
It's becoming a dependency.
Like I said, you've got your self-worth in a can now.
If you don't get likes and thumbs up from this construction of your self-image, you take that away.
It's like, oh, am I valid as a person?
Am I good?
Am I likable?
You're still tugging on your mother's dress like you did as a child.
Right.
Yes.
And I think we see that not only with social media, but this culture of, like you said, likes, clicks, fame.
I mean, I think that's why this Milo thing has been so hard to watch, disregarding the opinions, is his entire identity was wrapped up in how much controversy he could generate or how many people were paying attention.
And so, you know, obviously I'm a Christian.
I imagine when you talk about Dawkins and stuff, we differ on that.
But man, I've been praying for the guy because I'm like, I know that he's the kind of guy where this will probably be harder for him than anyone else because that is his identity.
Just like taking if someone were banned from Facebook where they spend all day on Facebook, it'd be way worse than your aunt Tilly who checks it every couple of weeks.
And that's one negative I might say about Donald Trump, is that culture of kind of celebrity, right?
And the retweets and the controversy.
I think that could exacerbate it.
Yes, I'm with you on that.
Yeah, I don't think Trump should be on Twitter nearly as much as he is.
I don't think he's helping himself there.
He made the comment once, it's like having your own personal newspaper, which I get.
But it does kind of sort of project a certain narcissism about the guy, which I don't think helps him at all.
No, I don't think it helps them at all.
And like you said, it's a great thing.
I mean, there are no gatekeepers anymore, right?
We're able to get this show out to people and we do really well and everyone makes a living.
That's it.
But you know what the truth is?
Most people, like if you see in your comment section, most people watch a video or they listen to a track and if they like it, Mm-hmm.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You got to be careful when you take feedback from these things.
It's like, when I get a compliment on my music, am I taking that, like, am I going to store that in myself or am I going to store that in Pogo?
Right.
Because really, 99.9% of my followers, maybe your followers as well, maybe more than 99.9%, they don't...
They don't know you as a person.
They don't know you as a friend.
They know you as a brand.
So you have to separate yourself from your brand.
And I've found that quite difficult.
I've actually gone through a few different Facebook accounts.
I did delete a Twitter account once because of the backlash on things that I then took personally.
You have to learn how to separate yourself from it.
It's a challenge sometimes.
It is a challenge.
It is a challenge because you want that engagement, but you also want what's best for people.
And you know that it's not healthy for them to be constantly engaged in flame wars or comment wars.
You know, we have some people who are super regular listeners and obviously Mug Club members.
We're incredibly grateful.
But I'll see them like arguing in the comment section all the time.
And I've sent a couple messages like, listen, man, thanks.
I appreciate it.
But don't feel like you need to take this on.
I mean, you know, Go outside, take a breather, and that's effectively telling them to do the opposite of what we need for revenue, and it's a challenge.
Yeah, that's a conflict of interest for sure.
I know what that's like, yeah.
No, I was definitely cleared into the whole Milo controversy recently.
I think I saw some kind of live feed on Facebook about his comments.
And the comments in the Facebook live feed were just toxic as hell.
No one's interested in discussion.
It's just Milo's a pedophile this, Milo's a pedophile that.
There's no debate happening.
There's no discussion happening.
And in an environment like that, I'm not surprised someone like Trump won.
Yeah, that's a good point.
And with the Milo thing, we discussed it on the show Behind the Paywall because, A, we have a longer show.
We can do it with more nuance.
We know people who are there are people who are typically more informed and more willing to listen to an opinion.
We spoke with Chad with AIDS, our friend who actually was molested as a teenager, who spoke about the issue.
And what it came down to with us was, listen, I mean, I know Milo, we had him on the show back when he had a few thousand Twitter followers.
I think it came down to two things.
Okay, was it a joke?
I don't think anyone was offended by the joke.
Or was it advocacy?
And if you look at the comments in their full context, you can certainly see the argument that it was advocacy.
And then it comes down to, okay, what's your opinion on a relationship between a grown man and a 13-, 14-, 15-year-old?
And is it consistent with what your position was yesterday, you know, with Lena Dunham?
Those were the questions people needed to ask themselves.
Instead, they got out the torches and pitchforks.
That's it.
Yeah.
Well, I might be wrong about it, but when he was talking about the benefits, quote-unquote, of a relationship between those two people, wasn't he referring to his own experience?
He was referring to his own experience and then later he said, we have all the clips on Monday's show, he said, I think the age of consent laws are about right.
But then people cut that context because he went on to say, though I think some people could be able to give consent younger like myself.
And if you look back, himself was I think 13 or 14 years old.
So it sounds like he's saying, he is saying there's some people who should be able to have sexual relationships at 13 or 14 years old in its full context.
I don't agree with that.
That's just my opinion.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
I was a bit gutted to see what he said and to see him going up and make an apology because I've always had this image of Milo as being a take no s*** from anybody kind of guy.
This is the first time he's ever apologized and I think he said he's going to be the last, didn't he?
Yeah, I wouldn't bet on that.
No.
I don't think the way Milo has existed can exist anymore in the future.
And that's the thing.
He has to come to grips with that and decide how to proceed.
I could be wrong.
But yeah, you know, I can still disagree with some of the things he said and still not be happy about the clear political hit job that it was, taking something from a year out.
You know, they could have just at that point brought it up, said this is wrong and dealt with it then.
The fact that they sat on it for a year tells me that, you know, there are people with agendas across the board.
That's right.
Yeah.
So you think it's 15 minutes of fame or up?
I don't know.
I mean, here's the thing.
I know that regardless of whoever agrees or disagrees with his opinion, it's going to be a really tough, clawing, pride-swallowing climb back up to the top, right?
Yeah.
And then if these people allow you on television, it's going to be you're one of many panelists because if you don't behave, you're out.
And so you can't be the guy who generates protests and controversy and still have that platform.
You know, in a difference kind of with what we do, we own all of our own platforms.
You know, we've had people offer to come in and we could have worked for, you know, other big sites, whether it's sites like Breitbart or other conservative sites.
Yeah, yeah.
We opted not to.
And so when you're an employee, you have that stripped from you.
I don't know.
I don't know what he has in his savings account to bet on himself and bankroll himself right now.
I'd like to see him do something, but it's going to be a process.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I think he's...
There's some people saying, oh, Breitbart's actually kind of brushed him out.
They've actually swept him out.
It's not his resign, but I don't know.
Yeah, there's always some of that.
When we were in the studio, we talked about that.
Edward the Sound Guy said, did you hear Milo's having a speech today?
He's giving a press conference?
I said, no, no, I know from behind the scenes Breitbart's giving a conference.
And then I found out that his was like a half hour earlier.
I said, this is an arms race for someone to say either you're fired or I resign.
And I mean, again, that's ego on both sides.
And that's not a healthy way to make a decision.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I know.
We can get off the mouth.
It's tough.
But, you know, it's tough ego right in this age.
I mean, someone like you is as successful as you are, and you show up to DJ, and you have all these people showing up because they're fans of yours.
I think there's nothing more corrosive to the human spirit than success, right?
Because you can see that.
Yeah, I agree.
And just coast.
Yeah, success is your worst enemy.
I've heard it said before.
And your potential is your worst enemy, too.
How is that potential is your worst enemy?
That's interesting.
Well, because you're always...
It's actually a line from Star Trek Next Gen, actually.
Someone said...
You thought it was like a Richard Dawkins quote for a second there.
No, it...
It was something to the...
I think if someone was saying it to Wesley, like, you know, your own potential is going to be your worst enemy because you know how much better you can be.
Did you see the Whiplash movie with J.K. Simmons?
J.K. Simmons and...
Well, hold on a second.
Naki Jared hates Miles Teller.
He hates...
I don't know why, but...
Slowly coming around.
Yeah, the drummer.
Why?
Why?
I don't know.
There's something personal, I think.
What happened with him?
He looks like a thumb.
I don't know.
Okay.
It bothers me.
Not a valid criticism.
Okay, but back to Pogo.
He's our guest.
I heard it was fantastic.
Continue.
No, I was saying, when I was talking about potential, I instantly thought of Whiplash, because that whole movie is about, you know, the worst two words you can say to anybody with aspiration is, good job.
Because the moment you pat someone on the back and say, okay, that's great, it's incentive to stop trying.
It's incentive.
If someone said good job to Buddy Rich, would he have been Buddy Rich?
And same thing with Louis Armstrong.
And I think that's kind of what the guy meant when he said to Wesley in Star Trek, you know, your potential is your worst enemy.
It's always going to be two steps ahead of you.
You'll never get to where you want to be.
But I guess you kind of have to use that as motivation at the same time.
And I can't abide mediocrity in anything.
That's why I never listen to mainstream music.
I turn the radio off every time I get in the taxi or a car.
Do you think it's all pretty mediocre today?
I think it's formulated.
There's an average of 13 producers behind every mainstream pop track now.
It's formulated.
It's 12 guys getting into a boardroom and piecing it together.
It's awful.
Okay, now that we're getting more kind of philosophical, here's a question for you.
I've asked several people before, particularly the high-level athletes and high performers that we've had in this show.
Since we're talking about potential, what is it that bothers you more?
What do you think is harder to swallow?
And it may take time to think about it.
When you've done everything that you could, when you've worked as hard as you possibly could, and you still came up short, or is it harder when you look back on a mistake that you know you made and could have avoided?
I'd say it's...
Yeah, that is a thinker.
That's a thinker for sure.
Well, I don't know.
Like, in the case of the Data Picard thing, I had to get to a stage where I was like, okay, the tunic looks a bit s*** in this shot, but I've spent the past four weeks, almost all day, every day working on this.
I have to just say, this is okay.
Because, like, in someone in your position or someone in my position who do this thing for a living, like, we're good at what we do.
So your idea...
Right.
idea of, you know, mediocre is probably most people's idea of decent.
So, you know, there's perfecting something and then there's getting it out there.
Right.
And the problem I've always had is I want to perfect it.
I want to get it perfect.
And I've got so many projects I haven't finished because of that mindset.
Yeah.
Well, it's funny because you still finish a lot of projects.
Actually, NotGayJar was talking about how fantastic the lighting was in Data Picard.
Yeah, the green screen lighting was on point.
Yeah, you match that.
I mean, our green screen is just total crap with reflection of green and stuff, but because we work in news, we're like, we've got to get it out today!
Otherwise, the story's done.
That's the first thing I know is I'm like, man, you put a lot of time to this.
No, no, no.
Your thing is, yeah, the data Picard, people who haven't seen it, you matched the lighting of the environments, which is very hard for professional lighting crews to do in big budget films.
That's not easy to do.
Yeah.
Look at this.
Look at this.
No, no, no, no, no.
Stop being the bullshit humble.
Look at this.
For people who aren't watching this, look at this.
That looks like he's outside there.
That's a green screen.
It looks like he's out there in the desert in front of those rocks and whatever this—I'm not a nerd.
I don't know what this starship thing is, but some kind of spaceship.
That really is—look at this, Jared.
Yeah.
That's very difficult.
People pay a pretty penny to hire people, and I know them who can make that lighting work.
Well, it took a hell of a long time.
Many sleepless nights of having to reapply makeup and then it was getting all over my camera.
I had to hire the lights out like four nights in a row.
It was awful.
Do you guys have a crew when you do your vits?
Or is it like...
No, we do.
And that's why we have the whole Mug Club subscription.
It's less than $6 a month.
And a big reason for that is so we're not dependent on places like Google and pretty much Google as far as advertising, whether it's YouTube or on our website.
So it allows us, yeah, we have a bunch of people.
What do we have?
We have five, six people who work on the show.
Yep.
Five, six people and another four people on the website.
Yeah.
To put this regular amount of content, it requires more people.
And I'm not very skilled at those things.
Okay.
Well, Jared's your producer.
You seem to be in good shape.
Well, that remains to be seen.
Don't compliment him too much.
No, no, no, no.
No pat on the back for not KJ. Especially because he actually hasn't even accomplished anything of which he should be proud yet.
So it's not even me being disingenuous.
But that Data Picard thing, yeah, we watched it right away.
I mean...
You know, I went to film school, didn't finish.
My brother graduated UT Film with honors, and we were all watching it, going like, this is really, really well done.
So, hats off to you.
And that was a slow build.
That wasn't one of your most popular songs right away, and now it seems like it's gained traction.
Yeah, it has.
Thanks, man.
I really appreciate the kind words.
I'm glad you guys like it.
But yeah, it was a lot of fun.
I'd like to do one with the Joker in the future.
Everyone says, because I don't know if you've seen the Wizard of Mare vid, but I'd love to do that as the Joker.
Not the Heath Ledger Joker, no one's ever going to top that, but I think the Mark Hamill Joker from the cartoon series will be a lot of fun.
Yeah, also Mark Hamill in real life now looks like the Joker, so it came full circle.
Yes, it does.
That's some rough living Mark Hamill.
Oh my god.
Is he going to be in the next Star Wars film?
I hope he gets killed off.
Yeah, he's a big fan of his day.
Yeah, it's one of those things where you just watch it and you're sad.
You're like, oh, that's Luke Skywalker now.
They tacked him onto the end of The Force Awakens, didn't they?
It was there for like five seconds with what's-her-face.
I don't even remember.
I fell asleep at that movie.
Forgive me.
Not, G.J., what happened?
I think the universe took the right Skywalker, but they could have taken a Mark Hamill, too, probably.
Okay.
He's bound to be probably the weakest.
Carrie Fisher is by far the weakest link of that Star Wars movie, and I think he's bound to be the weakest link of the next one.
Uh-huh.
It's the age that's catching up to them.
Isn't Tarkin like CG in Rogue One?
Yeah.
That's what I've heard.
Yeah.
Who?
Tarkin, one of the main characters in the middle.
And actually, they did that wrong, too.
They shouldn't have.
Yeah.
It's obviously...
Like I'm playing Uncharted or something on PlayStation.
Yeah.
I don't know these things.
I have a wife.
So I... No, I just can't do it anymore.
I don't know.
It's like Call of Duty or Xbox games.
I feel like it requires so much engagement that I don't have the time for it.
Yeah, yeah.
That sucks all your time away.
I played World of Warcraft for seven weeks once to get up to level 19.
I looked back at my life and I was like, what have I actually accomplished?
What if I spent this time making videos?
Oh, God.
Yeah, or love.
Yeah.
So that's a rough few weeks when you look back like, oh gosh, I could have done this.
So here's something that's interesting, and then we have to go relatively soon.
You brought up Christopher Hitchens and Dawkins and who was the other guy?
Sam Harris.
So I assume you're an atheist.
I wouldn't call myself an atheist.
I just, I don't know.
Like, we live on this ball.
Like, we're living on this tiny rock in this minute little quadrant of the universe, and we have the arrogance to think we know how the universe came about and what's out there and what's behind it all.
I just prefer to keep an open mind than to go saying what is and isn't.
Right.
Okay.
So, well, the Earth is flat if you've been listening to Kyrie Irving lately, too.
Yeah.
Well, we learn about that at the two days when we're not even.
Yeah, it's the flat earth.
You can tell by the horizon.
Put a ruler up to it or a protractor.
It's something like that.
You know, we're scientists.
It's interesting that you say that because we have, you know, at one point it was this huge faction.
It was kind of like the left.
Really, the social justice warrior left used to be all these atheists sort of online, particularly on YouTube and places like that.
And their whole mission was just tar and feathering, hating, particularly Christians.
Let's not say religious people.
They don't care about Buddhists.
They don't care about Hindus.
Christians.
And we have a lot of people like yourself who watch our program.
And I'm pretty open about my faith, and we can always discuss it.
But it's still a very libertarian-minded faith.
This is what I believe.
This is how I live my life.
But I certainly don't want to legislate it, and I certainly don't want to proselytize people who have no interest in it.
So it's interesting that that's come full circle, because I think four years ago, someone like yourself would never have listened to me.
Well, I don't know.
Look, I was born a Christian.
I was raised a Christian by my mother.
She dragged me off to Sunday school and all that.
And I spent most of my teenage years believing in a God and thanking Him for my fortunes.
I would say, you know, if I do die one day and I get to heaven and there is a God and it's like, oh, this guy's responsible for all my success, I'd be feeling pretty shitty if, you know, I didn't pay my respects while I was alive.
But I don't know.
It's not that I don't believe in a God.
It's not that I do.
It's just I don't feel I have the information.
Well, yeah, and that's fine.
But my point is it's interesting that now we're able to have this conversation, right, at an intersect, whereas at one point, certainly online, it seemed like that was impossible.
It seemed like the divide between deists and agnostics and atheists, regardless of politics, like there's no way.
And now culturally, we have...
It's far more in common than the new atheist left.
And that's sort of an interesting development to me.
That's right.
Yeah.
In as much as social media has kind of pitted the sides against each other, it seems to have opened up a lot of room in the middle for meeting of minds, isn't it?
Yeah.
It's interesting.
I mean, we can talk, like we'll have Sargon of a cat on.
And I remember Sargon of a cat came on and said, you know, so many people hate you.
And I said, well, why is that?
He's like, you know, your crazy opinions, like you don't believe in evolution.
I said, that's not true.
And it's like, oh, well, crazy opinions, like you don't believe in climate change.
That's not true.
Oh.
Uh-huh.
Well, crazy opinions, like, and I'm like, this is the thing, because people just haven't listened to how we've expressed our opinions on here.
Right.
They assume this because it's easier to make the argument.
I think a lot of people of faith have been tossed into this one box, and now we have, I mean, we have atheists on the show all the time, and a huge portion of our audience are not conservatives, which is a big shift, I would say, what would you say, Jared?
Last year and a half?
Year and a half, yeah.
Year and a half, maybe two.
Yeah.
And we have the ability, all the analytics online, to see that.
So I wonder if you'll see that from the other side where, you know, not being political, just doing music, you might see a lot of your fan base become more...
I just think people are becoming actually more engaged in that, which is surprising because we thought it would be the opposite.
I agree.
I think people are losing interest in taking sides and pointing fingers and gaining interest in discussing and exchanging ideas.
I was pleasantly surprised by the feedback to the Trump video.
I thought for sure I'd lose subscribers.
I thought for sure I'd get thumbs down.
It's 90% thumbs up the last time I checked.
And the comments are just super supportive.
You know, people are just taking a chill pill for a change.
People are seeing the whole divide between left and right, far left, far right.
I think most people are starting to fall more.
Most people are I know are coming into the middle more, and I think it's really reassuring to see that.
not tolerated on the left.
It's like, oh, okay, I'm a centrist.
Well, actually, no.
It's just that the left won't discuss these ideas as a general rule.
Obviously, we're speaking in a generality.
There are exceptions at all.
And so we think of it as moderate.
But I mean, you know, for me, being really a pretty hardcore libertarian on most things, I'm not really in the center, but I'm able to meet people in the center.
Right, right.
Which, yeah, I totally get you.
Yeah, I'm definitely sort of right of center for sure.
I wouldn't call myself far right, but yeah, I've got conservative values for sure.
Well, it's just about the individual responsibility is the main thing, right?
If you believe in that...
For me, yeah.
It's just owning up to your own agency, and that's one of the things that I don't see feminists embracing, or socialists for that matter.
I think we have a culture now where it's about getting more and doing less, and I can't abide it.
I can't stand it.
Let me ask you this.
How old are you?
I'm 28.
Okay, you're 28.
So you're our age.
How tall are you, by the way?
Because you look very tall.
Well, you guys do inches there, right?
So I'm 185 centimeters.
What the hell is the conversion on that?
Sorry.
Oh, gosh.
You know what?
In Canada, they were arrogant bastards who claimed the metric, but they still would do like 6'1", 6'2".
They didn't do the height that way.
Hold on.
I'm not getting you as calculating it.
We're looking it up here.
We'll get back to you.
Let's take a stand.
Bye.
You're 28, and you talk about feminism a lot.
Are you dating?
Are you currently in a long-term relationship?
My interest is what the dating world is like for someone like you in the age of angry feminists.
Does that create a standoffish approach, somewhat of an atmosphere of fear?
I'm married, so I haven't been in it for a while.
Mm-hmm.
I think we, like, despite all the achievements that feminists claim to have made, we still live in a culture where the man initiates.
Okay.
Where the man provides.
I think, at least where I live, that's still very much the case.
Yeah.
You know, when you talk about...
If you want to talk about the courting game, I think it's still the guy that has to do all the proving.
You know, how much of a provider are you?
What sort of prospects have you got on the horizon?
What sort of house have you got?
What sort of job?
Like, what's your aspirations, etc.?
Girls just got to say yes or no.
The girl's got the Tinder profile.
The guy's got to do all the work.
Yeah.
And, um...
Yeah, I'm not having a grump about it, but it's still the way it is, and I'm not convinced feminism is working against that.
I think it might actually be supporting it.
Well, I think because more young women are not identifying as feminists, but I do wonder, you know, if we were dating right now, and you go home with someone, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, front page news, I'm accused of rape, damn it!
You know, that's the fear.
Pogo is six foot tall.
Pogo is six foot tall, okay.
Six foot tall, so there you go.
Six foot.
Pretty tall.
What's your heart, Steve?
I was 6'3 until I ruptured a disc, and now I'm 6'2 something.
Oh, wow.
You're a tall motherfucker.
Well, you know what it is?
I don't have a big head.
When I used to be on Fox, people like Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly, these guys, they have these massive heads.
Josh Brolin head.
Josh Brolin.
Josh Brolin's like 5'7".
Yeah, he's a little guy.
So I have a relatively...
I don't have a small head, but I don't have a massive head.
And so often when people meet me, they're like, oh, I thought you were a little guy.
Well, you know, these are the breaks.
Yeah.
You were saying about feminism.
My whole thing with feminism is I don't see how you can solve a conflict of interest between multiple parties by focusing almost solely on the interest of one.
To me, that just seems counterintuitive to the whole thing.
And the other angle they have is women have to be more masculine.
The whole culture we have now, as much as they want to feminize men, I see more and more women in my day-to-day life being very manly and being very masculine, and I don't find that attractive at all.
I'm that way, too.
And you know, it's funny.
As someone who's done combat sports, like in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, we'd have girls who are very pretty, and they would be grappling, and they'd be like, I'm just one of the guys.
And first off, they weren't.
It was like, I mean, we had world champions who, fantastic, right?
Black belts, and I'm a decent hobbyist, and it's just like, okay, we can pick them up and move them how we want them.
The strength differential, it's cute, right?
It's cute.
Right.
And then they'd want to be like, we're one of the guys.
And then they would want to date guys in class.
And it's like, that's cool, but that's not really what a guy is looking for.
I don't want my wife to share my opinion on sports or even films, necessarily.
I'm fine with her being girly and different.
That's attractive to me.
I agree.
They're trying to change a culture, and I don't think you can change a culture any more than you can change the weather.
Yes.
That's a good point.
I feel like you'd have a better chance at changing the weather than changing women.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, actually, my wife will vehemently.
I just got an apology from her today.
That was rare.
Oh, yes.
Yes, we got into a discussion, and I have been very, very good about my anger issues.
And I was like, do you see what you're doing here?
She's like, what?
I said, you are arguing with the wall because I'm not going to do this.
And then I came back from the gym, and she said, you know what?
You were right.
It was illogical.
It was an issue that I was upset about.
I'm sorry.
And I was like, what?
But yeah, she's great.
It's one of those things too.
That's why I'm very – I'm not – nothing to do with same-sex marriage.
I'm very pro-marriage, which is rare for people our age because I think it's a great thing, A, to grow up.
I think it's a great thing for a man and a woman, provided you do it right and find the right person.
So I hope to see it make a comeback.
Because in Quebec, nobody got married.
I don't know what that's like in Australia.
But outside the US, in Quebec, it was just you'd shack up, live together, and it was considered the same thing.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm noticing more and more my friends are losing interest in relationships and getting more interested in shits and giggles.
I know what you mean.
The two weren't mutually exclusive.
That's right.
Okay, Pogo, what's next for you?
I mean, for people who are watching this, go check out the music of Pogo.
He does all of our bumps.
Hopefully one day he'll do a custom Lennon's Grinder bump.
Who knows?
What's next for Pogo?
I've got shows coming up in Perth, West Australia.
If it weren't for the whole US thing, I'd be playing them there with you guys.
It'll be awesome fun.
I've got Vivid Festival coming up in Sydney very soon, and I am working on another EP, which will be coming out on iTunes and Spotify shortly.
When can you come to the United States, finally?
2021, I think it is.
I'm past my 10-year ban period.
Now, for people who don't know, it wasn't really a horrendous crime.
You used the wrong work visa, right?
Yeah, that's right.
No, I didn't go smuggling crack or anything like that.
I did kind of sort of have the wrong work visa, it turned out.
I was too young and dumb to be doing what I did.
I made a bunch of cash without the right visa.
They found me at a border, I think, between Canada and the States.
I got in prison for three weeks.
Yeah, don't.
I know what you're thinking.
You're thinking like Shawshank Redemption.
Convict on this show!
What was it like?
That's it.
Close the stream.
And what melodies did that inspire?
It's where the Scarface track came from, for sure.
Hold on, what was that like?
Jail?
I mean, did you have a cellmate?
Were you safe?
I was alright.
I had a single self to myself for the most time, and they just opened you up into the population.
Yeah, they had to give me peanut butter sandwiches to help me keep my weight up because I was getting very thin.
Prison food is very, very minuscule.
But the worst part was not being in jail.
The worst part was just not knowing when you're going to get back out and all your friends and family are on the other side of the planet.
But I desperately want to get back there, man.
Nobody parties like you guys over there.
I had people jumping up on stage with me.
It was so much fun.
You guys get so into it.
I Lord, we should have led with that, Jared.
We've gone with in jail.
Damn it!
We talked about all this stuff nobody cares about.
Everyone wants to know what happened in jail.
You don't look like you would fare very well in a serious prison.
Well, I made sure not to drop the soap in the shower.
Just tell them you're Macklemore and see what happens.
Oh, God.
I do better.
So I would imagine you don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the illegal immigrants here who feel as though they're being oppressed by not being allowed to stay.
By the way, you used the wrong work visa.
They use no visa.
They walked across a stream.
Yeah.
I can't comment on immigration too much over there.
It's not really something I'm too familiar with.
No, not many people cross over the border there in Australia.
Kind of hard to get there.
Yeah.
Even if people come here by water, it's the Cubans and they're just on a floating bar stool because they'll take anything to get to the United States.
If someone washes up over there, it's because they're on MH370 and they finally found the damn plane.
Probably.
Alright, Pogo, we have to go, brother.
Where's the best place for people to find you?
You guys can check me out at YouTube.com forward slash Pogo and a whole bunch of tracks also go up to SoundCloud.com forward slash Pogo Mix.
Absolutely.
And people, please do support his stuff because the bigger he gets, the cooler we are for having copyrighted, copyright free music on our program.
And thank you so much, Pogo.
We'll have to have you back soon and talk more about the prison experiences.
Let's do it, man.
Thanks so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Let's do it.
Stay tuned for more, which I don't know what it is.
I don't know what it is.
I don't know what it is.
Oh, no.
Little Jimmy, it appears you've contracted AIDS. Oh, man.
The good news is, Mug Club is scientifically proven to increase your enjoyment of life by 142%.
Oh, jeez.
So I'll be cured?
No, Jimmy.
You're still going to die very soon.
Shouldn't have engaged in all that unprotected homosexual intercourse.
Oh, that's such a bummer.
Action.
It pays to be prepared.
You don't need to be a doomsday prepper or conspiracy theorist.
It's worth it to have peace of mind.
And that's why right now, Laddworth Crudder has a promotion with preparewithcr.com, or you can go do this online at preparewithcr.com.
Or call 888-457-3453, where you can get your 30-day supply of emergency food, drink, dehydrated food for $99 shipped free.
That's at preparewithcr.com or call 888-457-3453.
Set it down somewhere in your basement, your den, and forget about it and just know that it's there if you need it.
Hey, hey, don't!
You won't speak unless spoken to.
I gotta go to the bathroom.
Use the bathroom bucket!
This way?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's kata again.
I've been working on my kata.
Did anyone else, no one else in this room did martial arts when you were a kid?
No.
Never.
That was for nerds.
Oh my gosh.
We just said hi-yah and bounced around as Power Rangers and called it a day.
It was the stupidest thing in the world, kata.
And that was when I remember they would, you know, you're supposed to imagine you're pulling out the moves and you're doing it and then I knew this is why I'm going to get my ass kicked.
This clearly has no practical application in the real world.
Might have something to do with your words.
My words?
Getting your ass kicked.
I thought you meant my words in kata.
You're not supposed to speak during kata.
Kata is silent.
It is meditation in movement, Scott.
It's supposed to be seen, not heard.
I guess I don't teach that in Krav Maga.
It's not a refined art, Krav Maga.
They don't do kata.
They just launch rockets from 200 miles away.
Listen, I didn't plan on doing this today.
I had something else I wanted to talk about, but a pretty sad day for me.
Alan Combs.
I know a lot of people will be surprised.
Alan Combs passed away at 66 years old, and I certainly wouldn't say was a close friend of mine, but he was a friend.
He was certainly a working colleague.
And I think it's important that we recognize not only Alan Combs and what he did, but how things have changed.
Alan Combs was wrong on a lot of things.
And yeah, I remember him kind of insinuating the Tea Party was racist.
But Alan Combs was a much more classical liberal who at least would engage in a form of ideas.
I mean, think about it.
The show was Hannity and Combs.
And then they turned it into just Hannity, which...
A lot of people at Fox liked, because I remember people who would watch Fox News would just complain and say, Why do you have that, Combs?
I only want Hannity and the flag!
And I always liked, as you know with this show, I always liked, you saw with Michael Ian Black, I always liked hearing differing points of view.
I felt like it was more educational.
And Alan Combs was always willing to do that and often willing to defend free speech.
Here's a clip showing you why he was one of, in a way of speaking, one of the good guys.
In all the years I've worked there, since the launch of the channel in 1996, nobody has said, you can't say this, you can't do that.
And I have a lot of freedom there.
And also, I like the idea, and this is to liberals.
Many liberals have been my worst critics.
You've gotten some of that when you were there.
Yeah.
Because how dare you work there and take their money?
But look, why preach to the choir?
You reach more independents and even more Democrats on Fox News, given their huge audience, than you would on other networks.
So I'm grateful to have that opportunity to have that platform.
So, Alan Combs, on a personal level, I won't say, again, we weren't super close friends, but he did, you know, he went into bat for me on a couple of things.
After Hannity and Combs, the show, he was such a good guy that they kept him at the network.
And really, they didn't have a show for him, but he was a contributor.
He had a radio show, and I used to do that pretty frequently.
On Friday night, it was a Royal Rumble, and he was hilarious.
He was a very funny guy.
I remember he would just go to his phone calls, and he would just go, okay, line two, Alan Combs, you suck, and you, okay, line three, clear.
And, you know, that's actually where I met Sally Cohn.
Oh, really?
Yep.
I met Sally Cohn on Alan Combs' show on a Friday night.
I remember during the fall and late at night I went into the Fox News studio, met Sally Cohn.
And, you know, that was one thing that Alan Combs was actually able to do.
He was actually able to bring people into a room and you don't see this a lot, by the way.
If you go to MSNBC or you hear people who've worked at MSNBC or even people at CNN, certainly on the left side, they don't talk about how, oh, man, you'd have so many people with different points of view and they would just be in a room together and have a couple of beers afterward and have a good time, particularly at MSNBC.
This is inside baseball, but I knew this for a long time.
People who worked there, they were not friends.
It was not a friendly atmosphere.
And Alan Combs was one of the few people on the left who really did have a gift for that.
People who knew him, loved him.
He was funny.
He was loyal.
He was kind.
He helped a lot of people.
And he could bring people of different points of view into a room and make them feel like they didn't need to hate each other.
I don't know if that was an innate skill that he had.
I don't know if it was something by design.
But it's certainly not something that you're seeing proactively being created as an atmosphere from the left today.
And I do sometimes – well, I wonder how far we're going to go.
I wonder how far from that as an anchor point we're going to go as a society.
And I wonder 10 years from now if someone like an Alan Combs, you know, would become more of a centrist.
We kind of see that somewhat with Juan Williams.
And again, I know the Fox News audience, they'll be going, we're not conservative enough.
And that was one thing I just hate about cable news.
I remember on Fox, if you said, well, you don't have a differing opinion on this.
Okay, the audience is not going to like that.
They're 72, they're eating their Hungry Man Swanson TV dinners, and they want to see someone say America is great.
And there's nothing wrong with saying that America is great.
The oldest show I can remember watching before I started paying attention to really conservative things, but the conservative...
The talk show was Hannity and Colm.
That was the first exposure I had to anything that wasn't just plain news before.
I'd hear Rush every once in a while in the car with my dad, but that was about it.
Hannity and Colm's first exposure.
I remember as a kid enjoying it because I kind of liked the banter.
I liked the viewpoints.
It was different.
It was much more interesting to even my mind as a young kid than what you see today, I think.
I've always thought that was the case.
We have a hard time booking.
I think Alan Colm might have been on the show when we first launched.
I know Monica Crowley has, and that's his cousin, and they used to have a segment on Bill O'Reilly all the time.
But yeah, I really enjoyed that.
I've always enjoyed, and it's not me being disingenuous trying to take some moral high road.
I don't know about you, you can tweet me at us, Crowder.
I've always much more so enjoyed Having a program with differing points of view and hearing them out, and that's why we try to get people from differing points of view on the show.
It's hard to book them, but that's another thing you have to give to Alan Combs.
The guy was a gamer.
The guy was willing to show...
When other leftists would...
I bet you watch Fox News.
And it became a punchline.
Alan Combs was there.
Alan Combs could have gone to any network.
He had the pedigree.
He could have gone to CNN. He could have gone to MSNBC. So this idea that he needed to be there, he was their whipping post, Alan Combs.
No.
Alan Combs laced up his boots.
He walked down that aisle, and he showed up when no one else would.
And I've got to respect the guy for that.
And he did some things for me.
He did a lot for me personally.
And he was very kind to me personally.
And again, it's proof that we talk about this.
We talk in general sometimes.
Generalities are necessary about how the left behaves.
And I hope you see this on this program.
We talk about the left's actions.
And we talk about that a lot.
The left's actions and how they behave.
But we've talked about this before when my friend Seymour passed away.
We try to not deal in ascribing motives.
And that's one thing that I think is important in looking at the life of Alan Combs.
I think he was a guy who was wrong politically, but I think he had the right motives.
And we need to leave room for that.
We need to remember that, that there are people out there who might disagree with us politically who are good people.
And if anything, you can just think they're lost and try to help them along the path.
Alan Combs was a really good guy, and I think the world is a slightly darker place without him.
I know that some of you will disagree, but, well, there it is.
Alan Combs, thank you very much, sir.
We'll miss you.
▲
Export Selection