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Sept. 17, 2016 - Louder with Crowder
31:06
PROGRESSIVE ISLAM? (Sally Kohn vs. Steven Crowder WEB EXTENDED) | Louder With Crowder
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Time Text
You're grouping every...
Okay.
Yes, every Islamic country, I'm grouping.
Every single one, I'm grouping.
You're grouping all Muslims together.
Every single Islamic country, I'm grouping.
I can't.
I just can't.
You're grouping all Muslims together.
Every single Islamic country, yes, your floor.
Every single one, I'll give you that.
Your floor, your floor.
You're saying it as though it's a bad thing.
Every single Islamic country, yes, I'm grouping them together.
Your floor.
You gotta invite yourself some Muslims on the show.
We have.
We've had many Muslims.
Many, many Muslims.
We've had Imam Shaudhry on the show.
We've invited TalkIslam on the show, who personally issued critiques of me with millions of plays, the biggest Islamic non-profit on YouTube.
They refused to come up.
They refused to come on the show.
We had, what was her name?
Annie Cyrus on the show, who's a former Islamic child bride.
We had a woman named Q, we have to call her Q, on the show, who left her husband.
Again, a Sharia court here in the United States.
It was not recognized by the state, abused her, tried to take the children, and she is in hiding right now because he just needs to say divorce, divorce, divorce, and she has no recourse to get her kids back.
This is very common in Dearborn and in the United States.
It's not an outlier.
So we've had a lot of Muslims on the show.
If it's so common, then how is it I know so many progressive Muslims in the United States?
How is that?
How is it my, like...
Possibly because you're hanging out with secular lesbian Muslims at nightclubs.
No, but, like, I mean...
Seriously!
Come on, you have to acknowledge a lesbian blogger who wears a hijab is not representative of Islam.
And when I say hundreds of millions and you say, but there are some who don't, it's not a valid counter-argument that you have a lesbian Muslim friend.
It's like saying I have a black friend.
Mona Al-Kahawai in Egypt.
Like, go look out there.
These people are not...
And...
Oh.
...examples who want to...
Oh, your phone is...
Hold on.
The thing is...
The feed has given us a crappy round trip.
Can we bring her back?
Do you need to do better?
Does it need to be more progressive?
Yes, it does.
They agree, too.
Okay, sorry, hold on a second.
I didn't hear that last part because your thing went out.
No, no, no.
My partner is the radio on us.
It's her fault.
I'm blaming her.
Damn it.
Well, just convert to Islam and beat the hell out of her.
Aww.
Oh, come on now.
I just want to die in other faiths, man.
I just...
No, here's the deal.
You talk about Egypt.
How are gays, how are apostates treated in Egypt?
So you can point to one person, but what's the law in Egypt?
I'm not defending Egypt.
I'm also, by the way...
But you pointed to it as a bastion of progressive Muslims.
One person.
But what's the law in Egypt?
Egypt...
Okay.
Once upon a time in this country, you could be criminalized for having anal sex.
I don't know, I didn't see that as a...
Right, but the point is, we progressed, right?
We progressed in our religions, we progressed in our laws, we progressed in our norms.
You wouldn't have taken a snapshot of Christianity, Judaism, and the American value system at that moment in time and said, oh, you know what, that's inherently...
Okay, so what snapshot should we take then to be fair to Islam?
What snapshot in history?
Why do you not want to give it a chance to progress?
And by the way, Egypt, before the Muslim Brotherhood, was a more progressive place.
Just like Iran in 1969 was more progressive than it is now.
So allow for some...
Well, hold on.
You're right.
I agree.
I guess I just don't understand...
No, I agree with you.
I agree with you.
I agree with you.
Even if it's, what, 50%, 40%, 30%, 60%, whatever percent it is.
Far more.
Who, but my point is, let's not argue the percents for just a second.
Well, it matters if you bring up one lesbian hijab-wearing friend and hundreds of millions of Muslims.
It matters.
Out of 1.6 billion, Stephen, and I promise you, if 1.6 billion were like you're describing them, you'd notice.
It would almost look like the Islamic world.
It would almost look like Egypt.
You're analogizing almost like ISIS. No, I'm not.
UAE is bad enough.
Qatar is bad enough.
Have you been to Indonesia?
Indonesia isn't UAE. They are burning churches in record numbers in Indonesia.
Right now.
This year.
I'm not defending that.
But you just said Indonesia is different.
It's indefensible.
It's indefensible is a point.
There's no Islamic country in the history of the world that has a defensible track record.
Not one.
My point here is...
Why do you want to paint everyone?
Let me answer your question.
I can't go to Indonesia because of a fatwa on my head for drawing a profit.
Let me go back and ask...
No, that matters.
And that's wrong.
And I disagree with that.
And that's mainstream.
Why wouldn't you want to support, support the progressive, forward-thinking Muslims, the modern Muslims, in their efforts to reform and lead their faith in a better...
I do.
No, you want to alienate...
I've written a column right here...
No, I'll send it to you.
I have it up right here.
Louderwithcrowder.com, we need you in the civil war against Islam.
Islam needs a civil war just as bloody as the United States Civil War fought to free the slaves, right?
They need a civil war, and the minority will have to fight off the majority.
They'll have to fight to abolish apostasy laws.
They'll have to fight to create equal rights for women.
They'll have to fight to create equal rights for gay people not being killed.
They need a civil war, and I wrote a column supporting it.
We need you to do it because we can't do it on our own.
Yes, and they're sure listening to you the way that you're alienating them and making them all feel like they're...
They're not listening to you because you're a lesbian and they hate you.
The moderate Muslims do not hate me.
Again, what are you...
Yes, they do!
Are you listening to yourself?
Yes, they do!
Well, then, I'm so confused.
I've been to Dearborn and I didn't get, like, stabbed as I walked down...
Dearborn is a crap hole!
Dearborn...
Okay, here's the one thing.
This is like when liberals say with climate deniers, right?
When liberals say...
When you have climate...
Hold on, this is like when conservatives, the dumb arguments, where they go like, well, my neighborhood hasn't been hotter, so there's no global warming.
It's silly.
It's also silly for you to say, I went to Dearborn and I didn't get beheaded, so Dearborn is a hotbed for terrorism.
Not yet Jared knows, I won't bring him in because it's not fair, the restaurant that I went to was caught funneling money to Hezbollah, called Lashish, and now they just changed it to another place.
It is so common in Dearborn, everybody knows it.
So that's a great example for you to use.
I don't understand why you don't apply the same standard to Islam as you do to Christians.
I mean, you blame the Orlando shooting on Christians, the Colorado shooting on Christians, mass shootings on Christians.
I have it right here.
Whoa, whoa.
I blame fundamentalism on the ills and harms of fundamentalism.
And I mean, if you read the nuance, right?
I mean, this is pretty simple, right?
Come on, you know that lilt to your voice.
Fundamentalist Islam, bad.
Fundamentalist Christianity, bad.
Okay, okay, let me take that point.
I agree.
Not all.
I agree.
I agree.
Okay, so let's take that.
That's really important, right?
No, hold on, let me answer that, because that's important.
I agree.
So, fundamentalist Christianity.
Let's say the most fundamentalist Christian, right?
Jesus.
I wouldn't argue that, no.
I would argue, for instance, that Friends Helps very severely...
With 12 members of the Westboro Baptist Church.
And what they say is faggot.
In Iran, you get thrown off a rooftop.
I do not think Jerry Falwell, and I think a lot of Christians would take...
Hold on, hold on.
Okay, so let me make my point that I was making before you did this.
Okay.
The baseline.
The jumping off point, Jesus.
Right?
Okay, Jesus.
Okay, Jesus never killed somebody.
Jesus never beat his wife.
Jesus never advocated to beat your wife.
Jesus never caused a war.
Jesus never beheaded anyone.
Jesus never called for the killings of Christians and Jews.
Jesus never established even a form of law.
Muhammad did all of those things.
So could we agree that Muhammad himself would be a radical fundamentalist that we would both have a problem with?
I'm gonna...
I don't even...
Listen.
You know, I'm an Old Testament girl as a Jew, and the God I read about in the Old Testament was a pretty scary dude.
Did some pretty awful things, you know?
Drowned all of humanity at one point, firebombed all of Sodom, right?
Like, did some call for people to be murdered for this and that, like, imposed some pretty harsh, you know, the penalty for, like, jealousy.
And, I mean, like, really ugly, harsh penalties, right?
I'm going to hold you to the question, but yes.
I mean, I don't, I don't, that to me, right, is, I don't therefore say, oh, God is a right-wing force, right?
No, no, hold on a second.
You didn't answer the question at all.
Right.
Well, second of all, you're right.
I'm totally punting your question.
Get somebody who's a scholar of the Quran!
No, no, but why wouldn't it be...
Here's the thing.
You talk...
No, no, this is important.
This is important.
This is important, Sally.
Because you talk about some guy who has an inbred congregation of 12 people as though it's this grave concern.
Meanwhile, you have the founder of the feast, Muhammad, who beat his wife...
Who advocated for the deaths of Christians and Jews, who beheaded people, who committed mass terrorism.
You're worrying about a guy with 12 people, most of whom are inbred kids with flippers, and you're not worried about the guy who 1.6 billion Muslims follow.
That should concern you.
What I'm trying to say, Stephen, is, first of all, you know, please bring on someone who actually is a believer, not a skeptic, not a critic, but who is an...
I mean, I'm happy to suggest to a long list of people who are actual scholars and on the different interpretations of Muhammad.
But, Sally, that's fine.
But, Sally, it's not a rebuttal to my question.
Stephen, and I'm also, by the way, not an expert on Jesus, so don't be trying to get...
I'm not trying to get...
That's not a gotcha.
That's well-known stuff.
Answering your question, which is to say, first of all, this isn't just about the Westboro Baptist Church, you know as well as I do, that extreme homophobia, misogyny, all of these things have unfortunately been part of mainstream, mainstream Christianity and Judaism in their history.
They were.
There's no arguing that.
So you can say it came from Jesus or not, or worse, it came from human interpretations.
It doesn't come from Jesus, though.
And it comes directly from Muhammad.
So it existed, and now it doesn't.
Because those faith traditions progressed.
But it's not true, though.
It's not true.
No, it's not true.
It's not true.
In Christendom, it was never okay to beat your wife.
It was never considered okay.
It's unilaterally agreed upon in Islam.
No, it wasn't.
You've always been made to be a pariah.
You've always been excommunicated from society.
It's never been okay to beat your wife in the United States.
Ever.
Misogyny has never been something that's been lauded or approved in the United States.
Slavery was not endorsed in the Bible, and there's still slavery in the Islamic world!
Why don't we talk about that in 2016?
Because the point is, hey, isn't it great that Christianity and Judaism by and large, although not entirely, have progressed further, have moved forward.
I, by the way, love this conversation because we're arguing in favor of progressivism and against these regressive and oppressive norms.
So great.
Let's encourage Islam to get there too.
But we're not going to do it if we insist wrongly that the majority of Muslims do not want that too.
You are incorrect.
But I will say this.
I will agree with you on this.
We are arguing for progressive rights.
We are arguing for...
I wouldn't say progressive rights.
We are arguing for equal rights.
We are arguing for freedom, right?
And there is nothing that's a better fail-safe For that and the Constitution.
And to see that usurped by people in Sharia courts as we've seen in Europe, as we've seen in the Islamic world, I think would be a catastrophe for both you and myself.
I agree it would be a catastrophe.
It's a good thing it's not happening.
It is happening.
We have governments keeping institutions in check, and look.
75% of marriages in the UK aren't even recognized.
20% of women who report it are abused in Islamic marriages.
Here in the United States, half of these spousal abuse situations are settled in some form of a mosque or sharia court because they're not allowed to go to the law.
This is a problem right now.
I'm against it.
But why aren't you out there fighting for these women?
I am!
You're not!
Stephen, I am!
No, you're not!
By obfuscating and saying that Sharia law can be progressive, it's not!
God, I didn't say that.
I said Sharia, the concept of Sharia.
So when we ask in polls, or as Newt Gingrich said, we should ask people when they come to the border, can you believe in Sharia?
And if they say yes, we don't let them in our country.
Well, that reflects a fundamentalist misunderstanding of what Sharia He was talking about Sharia law.
He was talking about Sharia law.
And by the way, Americans use it now.
They just say Sharia.
And even if you don't like it, Sharia law looks different in many different countries.
But look, I am fighting it.
There's not one branch of Sharia.
Stephen, I'm fighting it by supporting.
I'm fighting it by supporting the majority of peaceful freedom.
It's not a majority.
It's not a majority.
Look, I don't know what to tell you, man.
Yeah, your friends aren't the same as a statistic.
That's the problem.
No, you're right.
Ben Shapiro, where all these numbers come from, who looked at the Pew data and said, oh my gosh, the majority...
I did a video long before Ben Shapiro on moderate as long.
You know what?
And it got fact-checked, and it's wrong.
It is based on a fallacious understanding...
My video got fact-checked and it's wrong?
No, but Benz did.
Is overly broad with the assumption that when people answer a question and say, oh, that's Sharia, it means they're right-wing Muslims.
It's wrong.
And I'm surprised you don't care that you're wrong.
I'm surprised that you don't care about everything that you've been wrong regarding statistics.
Give an example, please.
A majority of Muslims do support some form of Sharia or apostasy laws or spousal abuse laws in some case where there should be recourse in a Sharia court, not in a secular court.
A good point is, let's say the UAE right now.
Conversion is death.
Right?
In progressive countries, Qatar, you can't leave the faith.
And women are treated as second-class citizens in marriage, right?
Any kind of extramarital sex is punishable by death.
That would mean homosexuality.
That would mean adultery.
Well, guess what?
If you're a Muslim, you can't leave.
So if you're gay, you can't be a Muslim.
And you can't leave.
Either way, you die.
Either way, you die.
I'm not...
I'm not...
Here's the thing is, I'm not supporting that.
I'm against all that.
But this is every Islamic country.
And these people are coming in record numbers and bringing their laws here and their beliefs here.
You're grouping every...
Okay.
Yes, every Islamic country.
I'm grouping.
Every single one.
I'm grouping.
All Muslims together.
Every single Islamic country.
I'm grouping.
I can't.
I just can't.
You're grouping all Muslims together.
Every single Islamic country.
Yes, your floor.
Every single one.
I'll give you that.
Your floor.
Your floor.
You're saying it as though it's a bad thing.
Every single Islamic country, yes, I'm grouping them together.
Your floor.
And yet you want to write off places like Uganda, which have implemented equally egregious and offensive and backwards laws under the explicit citation of Christianity with the encouragement of churches in the United States.
And you say, no, no, no, not going to blame Christianity there.
No, I'm not.
Here's the thing.
You don't want to look at political context.
And I mean, this is really what this comes down to, Stephen.
We don't want to say, okay, look, there are political issues in the region of Middle East.
There are political context.
You don't want to look at any of that.
You just say, no, no, it's Islam.
And by the way, it's not just even Islam is implemented in those places or implemented by those right-wing demagogues.
No, no, no.
It's just all of Islam.
And in fact, anyone who doesn't believe that, not only are they a minority, but I'm going to like, I'm going to disagree You know, discourage them or disempower them or whatever by being like, oh, no, no, you're just the fringe of Islam.
You're not even legitimate Islam because legitimate Islam is only this thing.
And by the way, you want to know the only other group that agrees with you?
That would be friggin' ISIS. That's their message.
Their message is, you want to be a Muslim?
This is the only way to be a Muslim is to believe these things.
I didn't say that.
So, this again, with the rewind button, you're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.
Let me, so can I, I gave you the floor.
You're saying there's only one Islam.
Nope.
Can I say, can I clarify my position?
Because I feel that's an inaccurate representation.
I would like to be...
And I think that in these conversations, as Dinesh Jassouza says, it's only productive if you address your opposition fairly.
I said every single Islamic country.
Now, again, the context, if you want to talk the context, and we're talking about leaders here in the United States saying, we can't allow the kind of laws, the mindset, the cultural issues that plague every Islamic country to permeate the United States if they have Europe.
You've said, well, there are some progressive examples.
There's not one in the Islamic world.
So, I want to be clear.
I have said every single Islamic country, their system of laws are ones that I would find abhorrent to have in the United States.
And, in comparison to every Islamic country that we both agree on, you point to Uganda.
For the record, I would find it abhorrent to have India's laws, right?
Yeah.
Backwards, progressive, you know, right-wing nation of Hindus, not Muslims.
Can't blame Islam.
But every single Islamic country.
At what point do we say that's statistically significant?
Well, by the way, I wouldn't like Cuba's laws, but I'm not blaming Christians for Cuba.
Because it has nothing...
Well, here's why.
Here's why.
Because we're talking about Sharia law.
Christians, if you talk about Jesus, this is the big difference between Jesus and Muhammad, right?
We both know.
You know this political context.
Muhammad was a political figure.
Jesus wasn't.
Jesus said, given to Caesar what's Caesar's, I'm out.
He stepped out of it entirely.
Muhammad didn't.
He got into politics.
So, Cuba can have people who are Christians, and that has nothing to do with communism.
It has nothing to do with a distinctly atheist worldview, the Communist Manifesto.
The Sharia law, here's the difference.
Islam is inherently a political and legal system.
That's the difference.
Again, please reach out to someone like Abdullah al-Nayyim who would argue vociferously, and in fact, many scholars of Islam would say that no, in fact, that the politicization of Islam is in fact, that it's impossible, that in the Quran you can't actually take the faith and implement it politically, that it's an impossibility under the writings of the Quran.
Ask me more than that, and I'm going to send you to someone else.
But let me go back.
You know, we in this country proudly say, okay, our laws are Judeo-Christian laws, right?
They're influenced by Judeo-Christian morality.
We didn't actually take the Bible, thank God, and literally make it our law because, you know, there's stonings in that too, right?
So we didn't do that, but they're influenced by...
Contextually, not the same.
For better and for worse.
Okay, but for better and for worse.
And, again, to say that, well, in the United States, because we like our laws, therefore that's Judeo-Christian, we're sort of happy to proclaim that, but in Cuba or Venezuela, we're not going to say it's Judeo-Christian because we don't, I mean, those are also Judeo-Christian states, or in fact Christian states, right?
They're influenced by Christian laws and Christian lawmakers who then adopted their beliefs into all of Latin America, right?
No.
Oh no, because why House, huh?
So what a Christian state?
You just asked me why I said no.
Can I say no?
I don't think that communism in Cuba, certainly that stems, we both know, from a distinctly atheist ideology, communism.
A distinctly nihilistic anti-God theology.
Sorry, philosophy.
I don't think comparing Cuba...
The United States, for people who were deeply personally deistic, Christians, whatever you wanted to call them, is the same as a system of law based expressly on the Quran and Hadith and Muhammad's word.
You cannot find Jesus' quotes for the laws of our country.
In Latin America, where, you know, they follow a different, right, the prosperity gospel, and I mean, it's very much, right?
There are laws, actually, and there are, right, strains of Christianity.
They follow the prosperity gospel in Latin America?
Okay.
Let me also make a point.
No, no, I'm genuinely, I'm surprised by that.
Stephen, um...
I thought that was a Joel Osteen thing.
A percentage of Protestant Christians in the United States in 2016, this year, 2016, who favor same-sex marriage.
Sally, you've got so far away from that.
Is that the same as beating your wife and throwing a gay off a rooftop?
Burning gays alive?
I don't believe marriage is a fundamental human right.
Am I like Egypt?
That's not my point.
I'm just comparing apples and apples.
No, you're not.
You're comparing apples and suicide bombers.
I'm not.
Listen to my point.
39%.
39% of Protestants in this country, in the United States, in 2016 support same-sex marriage.
42% of Muslims do.
39% of Protestants, 42% of Muslims, Muslims in this country, are more pro-gay marriage.
And you just said, you said, you said, they're all, those are aberrations.
Yes, as it relates to the Islamic world.
Well, you can't judge.
No, you can't judge.
To take your exact point, right?
To take your exact point, talking about the United States Judeo-Christian rules.
Now you're having it on both sides of the coin.
You cannot compare when Islamists have power, when Muslims have power and are able to create and maintain their own systems and governments for centuries.
You can't compare that with people who have no political power or legislative ability in the United States where a vast portion of them are secularized Muslim like your lesbian Muslim friend who wears a hijab who would get stoned in any Muslim country.
Calling them secularized is insulting.
And it's reinforcing, as I said, the ISIS notion of Islam that the only true Islam is right-wing fundamentalist Islam, number one.
And number two...
Stop doing the right-wing BS. You know it's BS and I know it is.
There's no reason.
We're friends here.
My point is, stop making it about the religion.
It's about the political context.
There are progressive and evolved notions.
It's about the religion.
Right-left.
Then how do you end up with Muslims in this country more tolerant on issues of gay rights than groups of mainstream Christians?
How do you explain that and say it's about the religion?
Yeah, I can tell you.
Yeah, well, anywhere the religion has been the basis for a system of laws for centuries.
Throughout history, you can't point me to any example.
You can't point me to any example.
You can't point me to any example of an Islamic-majority country where there's basic human rights.
Ever!
In the history of the world, you can't.
That's my point.
And so my point is, these people would be better served to acknowledge the problem, to reject the teachings of someone like Muhammad, Muhammad himself, and move into the new world.
They're rejecting the fundamentalist backwards interpretations of their faith.
So that's every Muslim country?
Now you're being insulting.
Right.
But it's not inherent to the faith.
Yes, it is.
Muhammad did those things.
If you and I had this conversation, look, Muhammad's dead, dude.
As, by the way, there are all these people, these are based on human beings, right?
We're talking about imams, we're talking about political totalitarian leaders and their human interpretations of these faiths.
And I agree with you.
There are some really, can I say f***ed up?
How dare you.
You've got some nerve on you, Ms.
Cohn.
There's some f***ed up interpretations thereof, right?
But it's not an interpretation to simply...
Here's my point.
If we had this conversation a hundred years ago, I would hope you would also be saying these things about other traditions.
Well, I would.
I would.
And here's the deal.
Here's the deal.
You interpret Jesus' teachings and his life literally, it's a very different outlook than Muhammad.
One is terrorism.
One is a guy who might be too nice of a neighbor.
You might have a Ned Flanders.
Okay, before you leave, we were talking about this.
What did you get from the, if men had the, because I know you, oh, it's no secret you're a lesbian.
By the way, it was like 75 years ago that Jordan decriminalized homosexuality.
First country in the world to decriminalize homosexuality.
That's why I... It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter because right now there are gross violations of human rights in Jordan.
Yes, there are, but you're saying it's inherent in them being...
It is.
It's not.
You have to take the whole.
You have to take the context of the whole, Sally.
No.
You absolutely have to.
Just like Westboro Baptists are an outlier.
No, I wouldn't.
Yeah, we're half the country fought to keep it.
Again, if you're going to look at the totality...
They lost!
...where they are now, I'm just saying...
They lost!
I'm saying, Stephen, under your standards, right?
If you're going to say, oh, we can't...
Oh, forget that Jordan once was more pro-gay than it is now.
We're looking at the totality of it because it's an Islamic nation.
During that same period, women didn't have equal rights.
Well, so...
During that same period, non-Muslims didn't have equal rights.
Because gay people were allowed to smooch on the sidewalk doesn't make me think Jordan was a bastion of equality.
Forgive me for not being convinced.
For most of our history, neither were we.
Thank God we did better and we moved forward and we progressed.
And...
Others can, too.
That's...
Maybe they can, but it's a great threat to, right now, Islam as it is.
It's a great threat to Western civilization, Western values that you enjoy and I enjoy, and I think that that is something.
It is not inherently a threat.
Fundamentalist Islam, yes, is a threat, just as is fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Judaism.
Fundamentalist Buddhism...
Before we go, I want to give this.
I don't think I'm bringing you out of the closet as far as...
Have we had fun?
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think I'm opening the closet door and saying you're a lesbian.
Oh, I'm like very gay.
Yes, okay.
But, and I will say this about Fox News, it's different on Twitter, you never struck me as a social justice constantly offended type.
Oh my god, I'm so offended that you just said that.
Exactly, but like, did you see this week, I just thought it'd be funny to have you talking about this, that people got furious.
We would get into talking about other things.
That men can have periods too?
You must, did you see that?
No.
So if men had periods...
I'm less of an expert on men than I am on being a Muslim.
This is true.
No, I was wondering your thought on this, because we've talked about some issues.
We were on the Alan Colm show on the Free For All, and even I would say someone like you, even though I think you're grossly wrong on Islam, there's a new breed of leftist LGBTQAIP who are unbelievably offended at everything.
Yeah.
And it seems like there's been even more backlash against the gay community because of it.
How have you been dealing with that lately?
Because you don't strike me as that way.
You're like, oh, okay, this guy's an ass, and you can ignore it, and you don't need to start a march.
Uh, well, you know, I've been around the block a little bit, right?
So from CNN and before that being the openly gay lefty on Fox News.
So I had to develop a bit of a thick skin.
But, you know, the truth is, listen, I am also a very big proponent of Treating people decently.
And, you know, I do think, yes, we can always, sometimes we go too far, outrage, culture, whatever.
But at the same time, it also seems like some people are trying to go out of their way to offend people and to do so to make political points.
And that's never been my style.
I don't want to offend you.
I don't want to offend anyone.
And if someone comes up to me and says, you know what, that's offensive, I'm going to try to do my best to listen with an open mind and learn.
Which is, by the way, How I came to learn more about Islam.
Speaking of Fox News, though, I always wondered, because you were gay.
You were gay at Fox News.
I assume that didn't change?
No, still gay.
The interns...
You know the hiring practices!
Don't act like you don't know!
Don't act like you don't know!
You would walk in and you'd be like, is this Abercrombie?
I remember wondering, because the only lesbian I knew at Foxy, I'm like, I wonder what Sally thinks of this, because she's got to be conflicted, because she's a lesbian, but she also doesn't want to see people hired for their looks.
I mean, listen, though, I don't know where to go with this one.
Okay, alright, but you know what, come on.
But you're Foxy, and you know, I was glad that you were a good looking dude at Foxy.
Well, they always ask me to put on a sports jacket.
I'm not comfortable enough in my lesbianism to say that.
Well, thank you very much.
I appreciate it.
They always ask me to put on a sports jacket.
I got a call.
You know the second floor.
The old second floor.
Hey, listen.
Can you wear something more than a button-down or a polo?
I was like, I can.
Act your age, man.
Act your age.
Okay, Sally Cohn, where's the best place for people to find you?
The Twitter is Sally Cohn, K-O-H-N. This has been, you know, delightful.
Well, come on.
I think it's been friendly.
I hope you made a few more Muslim friends out of it.
Well, you know, it's funny.
I'll let you go with this.
I was raised in Montreal, so I had a school that was a significant portion of Muslim.
And I've written about this.
I watched them cheer when 9-11 happened.
I watched them make jokes.
So when you're outside of the United States and you get into multicultural enclaves, this was very common.
What?
All of them?
All of them?
A majority of them.
The fact that anyone did and felt comfortable...
As fucked up!
It's appalling.
My point is, when they were outside of the United States, this happened all the time.
Every single one of my Muslim friends, every single one, Sally.
Every single one hated Jews.
This is anecdotal.
My point is, every single one.
Every single Muslim friend I had at Centennial Regional High hated Jews.
And mine don't.
And by the way, I had a lot of Christian friends growing up who hated Jews.
I didn't ascribe it to Christianity.
I ascribed it to them being backwards assholes.
Yeah, the difference is we had all kinds of honor killings and stuff, and we have all kinds of wife beatings and kidnappings because of Islam in Quebec.
They have more political power there.
My point is, I would have defended you!
I would have defended you to my anti-Semitic Muslim friends.
Thanks.
I like to think you would have.
Alright, Sally, thanks.
We'll have to have you back.
This was fun.
It's been super real.
Alright, take care.
Hey, if you like this video, or you're still here, subscribe.
I don't know why you're still here.
This is the internet, and this has probably been going on for like 35 minutes.
Don't you have somewhere to be?
Only 31 minutes.
31.
31 minutes.
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