Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

Sept. 14, 2015 - Louder with Crowder

02:37:29

Free Speech and Comedy Debate With Harrison Greenbaum | Louder With Crowder

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	It's about consistency, and I don't think you're being consistent or fair in the application.
	I'm saying I defend all comedians to say anything they want, but I don't defend hate speech, and that's the line.
	That's silly.
	There are there are.
	Glad to bring on this next guest.
	He actually had a bit of a bone to pick with me on Twitter.
	We posted a story.
	If you watch last comic standing, Norm MacDonald offered a critique for this man who's competing in the competition.
	And there was a little bit of controversy.
	So he said that if I were brave, I would bring him on the program.
	Called me out.
	I accepted it.
	Listen, I posted the story.
	Funny guy.
	You can find him at Harrison Greenbaum dot com or follow him on Twitter and let him know what you think.
	at Harrison Comedy.
	Harrison?
	Yep, exactly.
	Okay, good.
	Well, listen, let's let you take this off.
	I don't want you to think that we're painting this in a way that's unfair.
	So you let me know why you wanted to come on first, and then we can dance, you see?
	All right.
	Well, the headline of the article was Gay Comic Bash's Bible, and I'm neither gay nor bash the Bible, so it was untrue in both regards.
	I'm actually looking at it right now.
	It's Norm MacDonald disses...
	Gay comic.
	Well, first of all, in my set, I don't talk about my sexuality.
	Oh, yeah.
	Norman Donald, this is gay comic for Bible bashing.
	So that was your assumption about my sexuality.
	Okay, so let's split the difference.
	With no basis in...
	What's the title?
	I mean, I don't talk about it.
	There's nothing in the set about sexuality.
	So you're just basing that on sort of bad stereotypes.
	Yeah.
	Are you gay?
	I'm not, no.
	Okay.
	Well, then my apologies.
	You definitely come across that way.
	Alright, but I think it's weird to like...
	First of all, I think you've used that information a little bit just because, you know, it seems like you're trying to use it in a pejorative sense.
	Sure.
	Which is bad.
	The word pejorative...
	Yeah, I know what the word pejorative means, but sure.
	Okay.
	So you're a comedian, right?
	Right.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So you were mad that – accepted.
	You were mad that Norm Macdonald critiqued it.
	You felt like they edited out your clip.
	So we'll link to the whole clip here, right here in this video for those listening terrestrially.
	We'll link to it at ladderwithcredit.com, the entire set.
	So I don't want to say Bible bashing, and I guess if that's unfair.
	Norm Macdonald, obviously one of the greatest comedic minds ever in the history of comedy, widely agreed upon in the comedy community, said that he didn't think it was brave because Roseanne said it was brave.
	He said, you didn't know what you were talking about.
	So, you said that the context of the full set, which you sent me, that I watched, changes the context.
	Even in the article where it says, the look on the comedian's face was all you needed to see.
	But that's not actually my face after he said that critique.
	They edited it to make it look like that.
	Oh, that's not fair.
	You know, so that's, I mean...
	Okay, but we're getting into semantics here, because I watched your whole set.
	Your whole set was obviously making fun of someone who quoted the Bible, and you talked about it being fake and being a non-existent book, and then comparing it to Harry Potter.
	That's fine.
	Listen, you can say whatever.
	I'm not offended.
	Well, that's not what that joke does.
	That's not what that joke is.
	Yeah, it is.
	No, the joke is, and you know, people can watch the clip.
	People can watch the clip.
	It's based on an actual experience.
	I'm in the subway, and there was a person there who was always quoting from the Bible, and Yes.
	I'm clearly quoting from the New Testament.
	First of all, I'm Jewish, so they're quoting from the wrong book for me.
	A book which you didn't even speak correctly, if we're going to get into semantics, is the book of Matthews.
	So continue.
	Just, again, if you want to get into who knows what words mean what, it's Matthew.
	Which would have maybe irked Norm, who has one of the highest IQs in the entertainment industry next to James Woods.
	I'm just saying.
	So if you want to get into the whole, you know, start this off caustically, this is what pejorative means.
	You didn't even use the right name to the book, and that's what Norm was calling you on.
	He said you didn't know what you were talking about.
	So continue.
	Right.
	But what I was saying, first of all, was using the word...
	I was trying to give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you didn't know what the word pejorative meant, because using the word gay pejoratively is a bad thing.
	But anyway, back to what we're talking about.
	The joke is just about the fact that people...
	You use pejoratively in comedy all the time.
	I mean, that's the whole thing.
	That's the social justice warrior problem, is you want to become offended when it's convenient for you.
	You know, I'm offended that I can't get up on stage anymore because Muslims want to...
	You're saying calling somebody gay is something that's negative.
	That's a problem.
	I didn't say negative.
	Pejorative means negative.
	Yeah, but I didn't say negative.
	You said using it in a pejorative way.
	You applied that.
	I didn't.
	Continue with your story.
	Again, that's another tactic.
	Sorry, but that's another tactic.
	You applied it in a gay way.
	I said you can rewind the tape and hear you say that you were using the word gay in a pejorative negative sense.
	You said you thought I was using it in a perturbative way.
	I said, sure.
	I think gay is an insult, and that is inappropriate, but besides that.
	Yeah, I don't think so in comedy.
	I don't think anything is inappropriate in comedy.
	Continue, but this is a good way for the audience to see how the left views comedy versus the right views comedy.
	I'll be honest.
	You caught me.
	I thought you were gay.
	You're not.
	I apologize for that.
	Continue with the story.
	All right.
	The point is the joke is about people who will use, you know, not everybody agrees that the Bible is the ultimate authority.
	Sure.
	And if you're going to, I think that everybody can agree with.
	And this person was quoting that book to the wrong person.
	This joke in question is clearly about quoting a book when not everybody agrees it's the ultimate moral authority.
	And that's me responding with another book that, you know, and that's the whole point of the joke.
	Right.
	You know, that's...
	You know, that's not Bible bashing or saying it's fake.
	There's other jokes where I get a little bit more into that stuff.
	But in terms of the jokes in question, this joke, you know, I think everybody got it.
	I think, you know, in the clip, they edited Norm to sound like he was talking to Cheers, that when he said something, he was cheered.
	That's not the case.
	He was booed by the audience.
	The boos had to be shushed for him to complete what he was saying.
	Okay, hold on one second.
	One second, because I want to give you...
	I know you're really, you know, you're really upset about the censorship deal.
	But let me kind of explain something to you here that I think you're missing a little bit.
	Sure.
	Everything we wrote in the piece...
	Is very, very, if people go read it, we'll link it here, is a stark contrast to what you're doing.
	And what you're doing is a tenet of the left, and it's what's destroying comedy.
	And let me explain to you.
	You go, everyone got it, assuming Norm didn't get it.
	Let me finish.
	And then you say, as a matter of fact, people booed him, so we had to edit it.
	So when I wrote in the piece and what Norm said was, you know, I didn't like the joke.
	I didn't think you knew what you were talking about.
	What I wrote in the piece was, this is shocking because no one says what Norm says.
	Because it's really easy to go up and make jokes about Christians in New York.
	It's really easy to go up and make middle Americans seem stupid.
	So because no one says what Norm says, it's shocking because all of a sudden being a Christian more right-wing is more taboo.
	We talked about that and what was edgy in comedy.
	Everything you just did...
	Was character assassination on myself and Norm?
	People booed him.
	He didn't get the joke.
	I didn't say any of those things to you.
	And I don't know why you feel that's conducive toward an environment for better comedy.
	That's social justice warriorism to a T. I would disagree.
	I mean, I think the, first of all, this piece, you know, it's stretching it to say that your article was in any way comedy.
	I didn't say the article was comedy.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	As long as we're on that same page.
	Right.
	No, it's not.
	The point is, the article is making it seem...
	Anyway, I wanted to just be clear what the situation was in terms of Norm said his thing.
	He was booed.
	No, no, no, no.
	You didn't address what I just said as far as the situation.
	That's fine.
	We'll get that context up.
	You know, I've gone up and done comedy and been called to be fired by Huffington Post twice.
	Once for saying the N-word, which I didn't say, and once for making a rape joke about Ashley Judd, which I did not make.
	I in no way said, I'm offended by your joke.
	I know I said I'm offended by your joke.
	I will defend to the death that comedians write to joke about whatever they want.
	Right.
	But then you go and say, well, it's pejoratively and that's inappropriate.
	And people booed and, you know, because someone didn't get the joke.
	So you say that, but you don't really mean it.
	And that's my issue.
	What I'm saying is when somebody, the word gay has been used as a pejorative for a long time.
	It's a schoolyard diss.
	People used to call people gay when they were trying to insult them.
	Listen, I said it because I thought you were gay.
	Okay?
	And frankly, even now, I'm still on the fence.
	I'll take your word for it.
	Then you don't...
	That's why I had to remind you with the word pejorative.
	If you're using it as a pejorative, if you're using it because you think that's something that would be insulting to me, or insulting to call anybody, that's a problem.
	Google Steven Crowder faggot.
	Okay?
	People have used it for me for years.
	Okay?
	I understand what you're talking about.
	Right.
	I'm just saying...
	I thought you were gay, and I thought that provided context.
	If you're not gay, I'll go back and correct it.
	My point is not that.
	My point is...
	No, it matters.
	If you're not gay, if you're a straight man, and I said gay, I should go back and correct it, right?
	So you're straight, and I should go back and correct it.
	That's fair.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, so we're in agreeance on that.
	Yeah.
	But to be fair, I don't think I'm the only one who made that assumption.
	And it was a wrong one.
	And that's totally fine.
	If you see my full act, I talk about it at length.
	So it's not like this is new territory for me.
	Right.
	So that's got to be tough.
	I can only imagine.
	My heart goes out to you.
	Listen, I was a nerd in school.
	Let's talk to not gay Jared.
	Yeah.
	Well, here he is.
	There he is.
	Yeah, he gets it all.
	Not gay.
	This is the life I live here.
	This is the life you can't live all the time.
	It's got to be a tough life to be propositioned all the time and not be gay.
	We had another gay friend who was like...
	I don't think I'm propositioned all the time.
	How could you not?
	Listen, okay, let's be honest here.
	That would be a compliment if I was propositioned all the time.
	Well, I don't come across anywhere near as gay as you do.
	And again, this goes into play.
	How could he say it?
	You come across as gay.
	I lived in Chelsea with my gay roommate for months.
	I was propositioned every single day.
	How are you not propositioned being in New York City?
	I know you said proposition all the time.
	I just am not.
	It's not all the time.
	Every now and then.
	All right.
	My issue is this, and I think Norm was right.
	And if you read the article, the article was talking about what people think is edgy in comedy.
	And I've talked about this many times as someone who has, I mean, actually, it's completely changed my life and my approach to comedy because of death threats.
	It's one thing to make fun of Christians.
	You make a joke about that.
	You make a joke about why you don't make jokes about Islam.
	Right, but the whole thing is the irony of that joke is it is a joke about Islam, right?
	Not really.
	But it is.
	Not really.
	The joke is, you can tell for the audience, the joke is like, I don't do it because, you know, they kill people.
	Most of them don't, but it's the ones that do that count.
	Something along those lines.
	I'm butchering it because I don't remember the exact joke.
	You can give it.
	But that's not the same as going up and saying the Bible is a fictional book.
	You spend a lot of time on the Bible and Christians and Southerners and maybe destroying Texas and how stupid they are.
	And you spend a couple of seconds saying, well, you won't make fun of Israel.
	The only thing about Texas is the fact they do have a law that allows blind people to hunt.
	Yes, I thought it was a funny bit.
	I think that's fair game for me to talk about.
	It's not me saying Texas should kill itself.
	That's me saying you shouldn't have a Texas, and there is also Michigan.
	There are two states where blind people can hunt.
	I'm all about people having rights, but blind people having hunting licenses is silly.
	I think it's a funny bit.
	It goes to what Norm said, and that's what we were talking about.
	It's easy.
	It's a lot easier to go up in New York and make fun of Christians in the Bible, and you did so inaccurately, which is fair.
	It's like, I inaccurately thought you were gay.
	I don't think I made fun of it inaccurately, though.
	Norm's criticism that J.K. Rowling...
	You start off with not even using the right name of the book.
	Matthew's 4-4?
	Matthew.
	Does – okay.
	I'm just saying.
	You start off – yeah.
	So there you go.
	There's the starting point.
	And then he went on and he talked about – I always say token.
	The nerds are going to get so mad.
	Not token.
	The Harry Potter author.
	J.K. Rowling.
	J.K. Rowling.
	Let's get that right.
	And Gandalf has nothing to do with it.
	Believe me.
	People will send letters talking about her, saying that anyone who read the – By the way, also, Matthew, which we're talking about, is also known colloquially as Matthew's version.
	And the shortened version of that is Matthew's.
	Did you bring that up on Google right now?
	I did.
	I did.
	So if we're going to go fact for fact, Matthew's and Matthew are interchangeable according to the internet.
	But anyway, back to the scene.
	Yeah, according to the internet, you can also put quotations inside or outside of periods.
	And color can be spelled with a U. You're talking to a Canadian here, so we play by different rules, my friend.
	Listen, I think you're funny.
	I think a lot of your bits are funny.
	The thing we wrote about was accurate, and I stand by it, that Norm said, you should know what you're talking about.
	And he was responding to Roseanne saying, I ain't got some really brave shot.
	And Norm said, I didn't think it was brave at all.
	And that sent the room into booze.
	Now, if you were to go up and make Islamic jokes, you wouldn't get a laugh.
	Roseanne probably wouldn't praise it as brave.
	Norm Macdonald would praise it as brave, and he would still get booed.
	You see the difference in the environment and comedy now?
	That's what we were talking about in the article.
	You know, I can see a little bit of that.
	I mean, I think my point was just the reason they were booing them was because I crushed my set and they didn't like that he was criticizing it.
	But, you know, I think the whole J.K. Rowling line of reasoning is silly.
	And that was, you know, where he said J.K. Rowling is a Christian.
	My point was it didn't matter what book I was comparing it to.
	My point was saying if you don't believe in that book, then you could use any other book.
	It won't make a difference.
	So it doesn't matter if the book is by J.K. Rowling, who's a Christian, or if the book is written by anybody else.
	Okay, we have to go to a break.
	But we're getting into explaining a joke, which is not what I was requesting.
	It's the worst thing in the world to do.
	Yes, exactly.
	And that's because of your cult of leftism and that's seen in the rest of your set.
	So Lotter with Crowder.
	We won't edit him.
	Come right back after we keep these lights on.
	Back with Harrison Greenbaum, comedian, not my biggest fan.
	You can follow him at Harrison Comedy on Twitter because I'm sure he will be tweeting out about this.
	So Harrison, we were talking about that before the break.
	We got into explaining the joke.
	We didn't explain the joke in the piece.
	Famously explaining the joke is, you know, the E.B. White quote about, it's like dissecting a frog, that the frog dies of it and everybody's bored of it.
	Right.
	But no one would ever have to explain a joke if people didn't get so offended.
	Now we, I wasn't offended at your joke at all.
	I was pointing out something and you were offended.
	Because you're bringing up Norm's criticism.
	Yes.
	Norm's criticism is based on a false interpretation of my joke.
	He clearly didn't understand my joke.
	Or if he did, his interpretation of it didn't jive with it.
	And I think he thought it was very safe.
	And I think...
	Saying J.K. Rowling is Christian and saying that that is a criticism in any way of my joke is silly.
	That's what we're talking about.
	We're not talking about the brave part.
	We're talking about...
	No, that's not what we're talking about.
	That's what I was talking about.
	And we even went on to post another article.
	We're talking about what Norm was talking about.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	Now the first...
	No, no, no, hold on a second.
	Hold on a second.
	The main thing...
	Let me finish here.
	The main thing...
	That we focused on, and the main thing that Norm said was in response to Roseanne Barr, who's never made an unsafe joke in her life when she said it was really brave, Norm said, and this was the only risky thing amongst all the sets there that was said against all the judges.
	The one risky thing was the thing Norm said, and he said, I didn't think it was risky at all.
	That's what we're talking about.
	He was edited down.
	He talked for about 10 minutes about J.K. Rowling being a Christian and all that stuff.
	That was my focus and the focus of the piece.
	Right, exactly.
	The focus from the edit versus what happened is different.
	But my point is...
	And that's fair.
	That's fair to say they edited you.
	Like I said, that's fair.
	But that's why I want to talk about, you know, if he went on about J.K. Rowling, I don't know, just like I don't want to judge you based on an edit I didn't see, just like I don't want to judge Norm on an edit I didn't see.
	What I did see was you make a joke about the Bible, him say that's not risky.
	I think that was accurate.
	Regardless of risk or not, though, I can only do jokes from my point of view.
	My point of view is somebody who is skeptical of religion.
	Very mainstream view in comedy.
	Very safe mainstream view in comedy, and that was Norm's point.
	Regardless, though, that's the only way I can make a joke because I'm coming from my own perspective.
	And I don't know if it's...
	Obviously, it's stuff that still needs to be said when you have people like Kim Davis who are, you know, using the Bible to say she can't gay marry and then getting divorced three times.
	You know, people use the Bible selectively to continue to do it.
	There are candidates like Mike Huckabee who still uses the Bible.
	Stick with telling the jokes and not having to back it up because that is the most poor line of reasoning I've ever seen in a Kim Davis case.
	And you and I would agree on the Kim Davis case.
	You and I would agree on the Kim Davis case.
	No, no.
	Exactly.
	The same thing you did with Norm.
	The same thing you tried to do with the piece, which is Norm just didn't get it.
	Norm just, you know, Norm was booed.
	It's Kim Davis had three divorces.
	Listen, man.
	Argue the case.
	Argue the law.
	This is what the left does.
	You argue the person.
	You assassinate the character of the person.
	This entire time, I've said your joke wasn't risky.
	Your defense is Norm didn't know what he's talking about.
	People booed him.
	And now the Kim Davis thing is not the Supreme Court and the laws and 14th Amendment or states' rights or tyrannies.
	It's she had a ton of divorces.
	That's poor, poor reasoning.
	And I think you're smarter than that.
	No, it's not necessarily poor reasoning.
	It is.
	I think the reason people bring it up is if you're going to use the Bible to justify your actions, then you need to follow the Bible.
	The Bible's against gay marriage, according to her.
	It's total bullcrap and you know it.
	But it's also against divorce marriage.
	It's also against getting divorced.
	It's total bullcrap and you know it.
	That the Bible doesn't want you to get divorced?
	No, no.
	If you're going to follow the Bible, you have to follow it 100%.
	Therefore, nobody who's a Christian can actually adhere to any biblical laws because no one is perfect.
	It's the stupidest line of reasoning I've ever heard.
	But the point is that people who are against gay marriage are using the Bible to justify it, and yet, you know, they take the truth.
	Actually, in that case, no.
	In that case, no.
	You have a lot of atheists who have talked about judicial tyranny.
	People like Rand Paul out there who are not big government religious types.
	But we're not talking about them.
	We're talking about Kim Gates.
	No, but you tried to tar and feather everyone who might line up with a different point of view than you, just like you did with Norm MacDonald, by painting them as hypocritical Bible thumpers, as opposed to arguing the law, as opposed to arguing the joke and the safe lily pad from which you hop with your joke.
	You argue that Norm didn't get it and he was booed.
	Besides the fact that the last show, which was about my overweight cousin, which got an equal amount of flack, and you've seen the so-called left side, and you've been tweeting about...
	Fat shaming.
	I can't remember her name.
	Nicole Arbor.
	Yeah.
	And that whole thing about her doing the fat shaming video, and then censorship, all that whole thing.
	So it's not like I'm...
	Yes, you are.
	Yes, you are.
	You're not picking that one, but yes, you are.
	You do pick it.
	You do say, well, that can't be used pejoratively.
	You know, it's the same reason why I have to get, you know, it's a, listen, here's the truth.
	Because of someone like you saying you can't use gay pejoratively, there's some kid right now who, let's say like me when I was 17 getting started before there were smartphones, or some kid starting an open mic club who has a bit where out of context uses the word fag, or like me, out of context where I ended my set on the word nigger.
	I ended it quoting a famous French rap song.
	And I was actually signed to Tony Camacho, my first manager.
	You probably know him if you've worked in New York.
	Because I ended it on the N-word.
	So someone now can take it out of context and say it's inappropriate to use that word pejoratively and ruin somebody's career.
	I've never ever in my life tried to say this isn't allowed in comedy.
	You just did.
	But that's not at all what I'm saying.
	It is.
	I can make it very clear.
	Okay.
	I'm saying...
	When you're doing it in the context of a set, if somebody tries to make...
	And you're saying you're not using it pejoratively, then it's defensible.
	But when you say that the word gay is a pejorative, that's the problematic part.
	It's not...
	I don't think it's problematic.
	It is problematic.
	I don't think when Nick DiPaolo goes up and people...
	He's not using it pejoratively.
	Yes, he does.
	And he goes, ah, what the hell do I care, you liberal faggots?
	I don't give a shit.
	That's not pejoratively?
	That's not defensible?
	I don't think...
	But he's not...
	I think he's...
	Why is that not...
	Why is that defensible?
	That's pejoratively using the word fag.
	Or what about Code Joy?
	I'm against him using that, but if he's gonna...
	But we're talking about something very different.
	No, we're not!
	You said it's not appropriate to use it pejoratively.
	I'm saying in comedy...
	Everything is appropriate.
	And you're talking to someone who always did a clean set.
	I've defended Jim Norton.
	I've defended on the same site people like Amy Schumer.
	I've attacked her when she goes to push gun control.
	And I defend her when she gets attacked by feminists and social justice warriors.
	It's about consistency.
	And I don't think you're being consistent or fair.
	I'm saying I defend all comedians to anything they want.
	But I don't defend hate speech.
	And that's the line.
	That's silly.
	There are comedians, there are people who hide behind the banner of comedy to justify their hate speech.
	And those people are wolves in sleeves clothing.
	That's not the kind of, but anybody who's a real comedian, like Nick DiPaolo, who's earned his spot on that stage, I defend, if he's trying to be funny and he's getting laughs, that's between comedy and I defend everything he has to say.
	We have to go to a break.
	We have to go to a break.
	It's going to cut you off.
	So I don't want you to think that you're being edited.
	Go to a break.
	Lotterwithcrowder.com.
	Uncensored web version as we continue where you can say whatever he wants.
	Stay tuned.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	You are an uncharted...
	You can go and say whatever you want.
	That's why I wanted to do this as a pre-tape so you could have more time because I thought this was going to take more than two segments we could get in a half hour.
	So go ahead.
	You said hate speech and you believe that comedians who use hate speech are wolves in sheep's clothing.
	Continue.
	There's a French comic who's basically doing Holocaust songs, and there's been a lot of news about how he's anti-Semitic, and the French government treats speech differently than the US government, and he's been kind of shut down.
	I don't agree in shutting down any kind of speech, but there are certain people who, you know, he claims he's a comedian, but he's really just, you know, somebody who has a platform for his hate speech.
	So what?
	How does that affect you?
	Just like you say, how does gay marriage affect you?
	How does that affect you?
	The market will speak.
	If people don't like it, he won't do well.
	Right.
	But my point is, I don't have to defend him.
	Sure you do.
	I can say...
	No, you absolutely, as a comedian, have to defend his right to say that, as heinous as it is, to be consistent.
	You have to defend his right to say that.
	Otherwise, you're inconsistent.
	My point is if there's a KKK guy giving a speech, I would defend his right to give a speech, but I wouldn't defend him in the context of comedy.
	If he said, oh, by the way, I'm trying to be funny.
	I'm a comedian.
	He doesn't get out of jail free with that.
	Yeah, I think it's different when you're talking about someone actually who is a comedian, but you talked about hate speech.
	Again, we've gone from comedy to hate speech, and you used the term hate speech, which is a made-up term designed by the left to censor speech and ultimately censor thought.
	I mean, you talk about a place like Canada.
	You talk about here in Kim Davis.
	In Canada, you have pastors who are jailed for not marrying two members of the same sex.
	So it's not only civil unions wasn't enough.
	It wasn't states can make same-sex marriage, gay marriage enough.
	That wasn't enough.
	It wasn't a federal mandate was enough.
	Now it's every county of every clerk has to sign off on it personally, and that won't be enough.
	And in Canada, they've reached the point where every single pastor of every church has to sign off on it, just like in Denmark.
	And that's not enough.
	That's what I call the gay stopper.
	I mean, I can only – I'm not – I'm American, so I'm only arguing about the United States, where no priest or rabbi is being forced to marry people they don't want us to marry.
	Well, there is no hate speech, really, in the United States.
	That's the point.
	In Canada, free speech doesn't exist.
	So in places like Europe, hate speech laws can be created and exist because they don't really have a First Amendment the same way we do here.
	It's distinctly American.
	Yeah, my expertise is not – I don't have international expertise, so I'd be going out of my – I can't really talk about free speech.
	I'm trying to help.
	When you use the word hate speech, right there, you've opened the door to censorship.
	And it sounds to me, from what we're talking about, you're okay as long as it's with censorship with things you don't like.
	My point is just that I think there are some people, and we're getting this with this Nicola Arbor situation, where people are trying to figure out whether or not they can define her as a comedian.
	So I'm just speaking in terms of people who will claim that they're comedians in order to get extra protection for their not-jokes.
	So you don't think she's a comedian?
	I don't know enough about what she's saying.
	I'm just saying this is the kind of conversation that happens.
	The reason I'm trying to carve out an exception is because there are people who will say something awful and then say, oh, I was making a joke when they clearly weren't making a joke and now we're supposed to be okay with it.
	You have to be okay with it.
	You have to be not okay with the statement.
	You can say, oh, that's abhorrent.
	That's a terrible statement, but I defend the right to say it.
	What I'm saying is, if you make a joke that is hateful, then don't be surprised when people think you're hateful.
	You can't just say, oh, I always think you're hateful.
	And you've never taken the risk to make a joke that the left social justice warriors could ever consider hateful.
	Because your jokes are about Christians, your jokes are about conservatives, your jokes are about the Bibles, and you power in the face of Islam, who would throw you off a roof for a lisp.
	Obviously, it was enough of a risk because there are people like you who hit a nerve and all the articles about this.
	It didn't hit a nerve!
	I thought the joke was fine.
	I thought it was okay.
	I didn't think it was hilarious.
	I didn't think it was bad.
	My point was the reason it was even a statement, the reason anyone even raised an eyebrow was because it's so freaking edgy for Norm MacDonald to say, I don't think that was risky.
	The reason people were upset on both sides and booed was because many people, sorry, thought Norm MacDonald was telling a gay comedian who made a Bible joke that it wasn't risky.
	That's why the left was in an uproar.
	And I was saying, look at this, how things have flipped.
	Just like when I was with Amy Schumer on Red Eye.
	And she actually blocked me immediately.
	Immediately.
	Immediately, which very much surprised me, where my whole article was, you say whatever you want, but I used to have a bit about being a virgin.
	I used to have a bit about not having sex until I was married.
	My stuff was sort of clean, unclean as a Christian, and it would make people so uncomfortable, and then I'd watch someone go up and make a joke about a threesome in a truck stop, and it was fine.
	And my point was, the last taboo was sort of the traditional.
	We've come full circle.
	It's the anti-establishment.
	That was the point of the article, and that's why anyone even, it's even been talked about online.
	No, and I think most of what you said is fair, and I do think that because any minority opinion that you're willing to express to a majority, I think is...
	Is inherently, in that way, edgier.
	I think, you know...
	So you would agree, then?
	You're making fun of a minority as part of...
	You've become more of the majority, the sort of liberal social justice...
	The atheist agnostic community is way not the majority in the United States.
	In entertainment?
	That's just, like, not true.
	In entertainment?
	You really don't think so?
	In the country, period.
	Do I have to pull Gallup polls and statistics?
	Sure, yeah.
	In entertainment, you really think that in entertainment, you really think that it's edgy to be an agnostic sort of...
	In entertainment, we're not talking about in the entertainment industry.
	That doesn't matter.
	Well, it does matter.
	Because you're in front of people in the entertainment industry.
	That's why Roseanne was praising you as brave.
	No, that's why Roseanne was praising you as brave.
	Some guy who tosses on a dress and wants to call himself transgender at 14 and pop on into the girls' restroom is brave.
	Some guy who says, hey, you still got a cock and balls, you should probably go in the guy's room, is considered hateful.
	Which one's brave?
	Right, and they'd be right.
	It'd be hateful.
	It'd be hateful now to say you got a cock and balls, you're a guy.
	The person in a stall, who cares what genitalia they have?
	How about most of the general population if you want to get the facts and statistics?
	See, you're the one who wants to set the narrative for what's okay to joke about and what's not.
	I think you missed what I said earlier.
	In any Islamic country, they'd throw you off the roof for your lisp because they would assume you're gay.
	Not gay, not gay.
	I got that wrong.
	Why don't you make jokes about that?
	I'm not saying you have to, but why does it appear anywhere in your set?
	Two minutes of your stand-up joking about how you won't joke about Islam.
	No, there's two minutes of, I'm saying the two minute clip that we're talking about.
	I think my joke about not making a joke is, and plus there's other jokes in my act that you haven't seen.
	That's true.
	So I do talk about it, and that's just one of the jokes.
	And there's more.
	I would love to hear you send me your jokes on Islam.
	I would love to hear you send me your tranny jokes.
	Send me your jokes about the gay community.
	Send me your jokes about blacks, about Asians, about whites, about Christians, about all of them, so we can say that at least you're even-handed in your sort of enforcement of diversity and comedy.
	I think there's nothing less funny than this idea that you have to footnote or appendicize your stand-up.
	Just because you make fun of one thing.
	That's the point.
	Thank you.
	No, but what you're saying is, it's not brave unless I go on and make fun of every single one of these groups.
	That's not what I said.
	As a matter of fact, I'm pointing out your own inconsistency, and you're not able to see it.
	Where you said, that's pejoratively, that's not acceptable.
	This is acceptable.
	It would be hateful to make a joke about a transgender.
	I didn't say that.
	No, not at all.
	You want to go, rewind the tape.
	If someone makes fun of a cock and balls going into a men's restroom, going into a woman's restroom as a man, that's hateful.
	And you said, and that would be hateful.
	That's what you said.
	I think there are jokes to be made, and some of my heroes in comedy have great jokes about Caitlyn Jenner, the whole situation.
	There's a lot of great comics who have wonderful jokes about it.
	The easier way to discuss this would be, we all think interracial marriage is fine.
	We're at a point in society where I don't think most people have a problem with people of different races marrying each other.
	So if a comic got up there and just started saying, isn't it ridiculous all these people who are the same, you know, different races getting married?
	Isn't that the worst thing in the world?
	Even, you know, that might kill in certain communities.
	Are you going to go to the flat earth thing and try and act like that was a mainstream thing too?
	Interracial marriage, that's why there are more people in this country who are more Native Americans than ever, because as opposed to annihilation, they were intermarrying the second they came in.
	Then there was a small sect of stupid people who were against it.
	There had to be a Supreme Court case to establish the right of people to marry interracially.
	People were being bought for doing that.
	You go to everything so safe.
	Oh, the interracial marriages.
	Oh, the racists.
	Oh, the Texans, the Christians.
	It's just like you're stepping from one safe lily pad to the other while trying to set, like Jim Norton says, cultural landmines for everyone else.
	I purposely picked something safe for the point, which is that we all agree that it's right now.
	But if a comedian was making jokes...
	Back in the 40s or 50s that it was ridiculous when it was not popular necessarily to believe that.
	That comic, regardless of edgy, brave, whatever, that comic would have been wrong because people who are against interracial marriage are racist.
	I think that comic either would have been funny or not funny.
	I'm saying the same thing goes now for gay rights and transgender rights.
	It's easier to make...
	You can make these jokes about...
	No, that's my point.
	Because of people like you, it's really hard for people to make jokes.
	Because of you and Huffington Post and Daily Kos and Roseanne Barr, who believes in censorship of speech, comedy has become harder.
	And you act like, well, I'm okay as long as it's my list of friends and this list of topics that are okay.
	Otherwise, it's wrong because we have to deny biology with the transgender issue.
	We have to make sure that everyone feels welcome as long as it fits into my purview.
	It's just safe and cliche, and that's my point.
	What I'm saying is you can joke about race, but you shouldn't be racist.
	Those are different.
	And it goes for all issues.
	And I think that's very clear.
	And that's the challenge.
	That's the challenge.
	You believe in his speech.
	I'm not saying it's not a challenge.
	I'm not saying it's something...
	It shouldn't be a challenge in comedy.
	Every single comedian, every single comedian should share the exact same opinion that Jim Norton, Nick DiPaolo, Bill Burr, Norm MacDonald all share.
	And you don't.
	They believe it's all okay or it's not okay.
	You believe it's some okay, some is not okay.
	And that's destroying comedy.
	These are guys that we're talking about that are friends of mine who I have very frank discussions about all of these things with.
	So obviously I support them.
	They're on my list of friends.
	I'm not talking about them.
	I'm talking about the opinion that it's either all okay or none of it's okay.
	Now if someone goes up, you know, like for example...
	Kramer, who's not a stand-up comic.
	We both know that.
	That was a sad situation.
	Wrong.
	And it wasn't funny.
	And it was wrong.
	And it was called out right away because someone had a phone.
	And right away, that happened.
	The market spoke.
	Right?
	The market spoke.
	And he didn't really...
	I don't know if he...
	Does he still do any kind of performances down in L.A.? No, not really.
	Well, it's funny.
	My mom was this wardrobe stylist at the Just for Laughs when I was really young.
	That's how I first piqued an interest in comedy.
	And he would, like, throw up before...
	He was so anxious before he would go on stage.
	A lot of comics, actually.
	You'd be surprised.
	Even experts.
	Even veterans.
	Explosive diarrhea.
	Well, I've been doing it since 17.
	I remember when I got the Just for Laughs set that got me into the festival.
	It's funny.
	I was so self-conscious.
	I used to say, like, oh, yeah, I threw up before my set because somehow I felt like it was less embarrassing than I had explosive diarrhea in the green room.
	The truth is I just painted it and went up and got into the festival.
	But that never went away.
	But he would actually, like, be physically sick, Kramer.
	So when I saw that video, I thought, man, this is a guy who – there's a good example.
	Said that stuff.
	Those statements are racist.
	Right.
	I don't know that he's a racist.
	Well, that's why I said it with this.
	That means hacky, okay?
	Absolutely.
	Don't try and take this out of context and go, Stephen thinks that's a funny joke.
	No, of course.
	I think we actually agree more than we disagree.
	What I'm trying to say is there are comics, and I've seen them perform, because I'm in the clubs.
	I'm doing two, three shows every single night.
	I see a lot of comedy.
	It's not so much in New York, but maybe more when I'm on tour.
	But there are comics who are genuinely racist or genuinely homophobic, and And it's very clear from their stand-up.
	What does that mean, homophobic?
	Does that mean you disagree with someone?
	If I don't think two guys getting married is the same as a heterosexual marriage, does that make me homophobic?
	No, I don't think so.
	There are people who hate gay people.
	Is Kim Davis homophobic?
	I'm not sure.
	I don't know her.
	I don't know.
	But when you start throwing around terms like hate speech, homophobic, and it requires no proof, right?
	Everyone who voted against Barack Obama was a racist.
	That's not true.
	That's been the narrative from HuffPo and from all the sites.
	There are very few people I've met, thankfully, in my life who are genuinely racist or generally homophobic or genuinely any of these.
	I would agree with that.
	I met one.
	And it was actually when I was doing stand-up and I was in Virginia.
	Okay.
	And it was a guy – I tell you, this is a true story.
	There you go.
	Cracker Barrel.
	And like I said, I used to end – not Cracker Barrel, sorry.
	Bob Evans.
	Nothing good happens at Bob Evans.
	But like I said, I used to end my set with the word, come on.
	Was the bit about French Canadians using English terms they didn't know when you would hear the N-word in rap videos.
	So that was how I ended my set.
	And that's what signed me to Tony Camacho.
	So I've used it in my set.
	So that's when people say, can you believe Paula Deen said the N-word?
	I say it every time I sing along to Kanye's College Dropout.
	It's all about context, right?
	I have a joke in my act where I say, I ask the audience, I go, can I say the N-word when I'm doing karaoke?
	And then they're usually silent.
	And I go, I guess that's a no.
	And you're probably right.
	Because I did it last week a bunch of times.
	People were very upset.
	Granted, I was adding it to songs that didn't already have it.
	You know what I mean?
	It's all about content.
	My point is the first time I ever actually heard it was at a Bob Evans.
	And I remember the guy said, you know, like, you got these filthy...
	And I was like, holy, it stopped my heart.
	But the thing is, it's so rare.
	That made me aware that it's so rare.
	I'm not saying this happens often.
	And the beauty of...
	Most comics get into comedy to talk about truth, and they're around a lot of different people.
	It's very rare you meet a racist or homophobic or any of these anti-things.
	Once in a while, once in a blue moon, you meet that racist guy, and that guy's speech, I don't want to defend as strongly as everybody else's, in terms of he doesn't deserve as much of a platform to be racist as Jim Norton gets a platform to do his humor, which I'm not saying he's racist at all, but Jim Norton has earned his platform.
	This racist guy has not.
	Yeah, you know, I disagree, and let me tell you why.
	Because views like yours, and people from your liberal point of view, worldview, selectively apply it.
	And when I am at the front page of Huffington Post twice, twice for jokes that I didn't make, and I have to go in to the Fox News boardroom on the second floor and explain my jokes, it ruined me.
	It ruined me as far as stand-up comedy, because we also had death threats, so anytime I go and do it, and I can't do a club, there has to be security, Yeah, no, it's tough.
	Yeah, but you don't have that.
	If you went up and you started making fun of Islam and found yourself on the care watch list as I do next to Salman Rushdie and Mark Stein, you'd feel very differently.
	Because you make jokes that are just as, and I'm not at all saying you shouldn't, just as vicious towards, not as vicious, about a quarter as vicious towards Christians as I make toward Islam.
	One of us has to have our house heavily armed, has to be under security watch when we do stand-up, And one of them can sprint around the stage where people might think that you're a homosexual and you're not, and you make one of the Bible.
	And that's to give you an idea of the situation, and it's because of leftist ideology.
	Can you understand that?
	Well, I think the reason that you have all these issues has nothing to do with the left, but has to do with Islam.
	And the left defends Islam.
	It's Islamophobic.
	If I make a joke about Muhammad raping the shit out of his six-year-old wife and then beating her, but beating her correctly, I'm labeled an Islamophobe.
	It's in the Quran.
	It's in Hadith.
	Front page everywhere.
	This comedian's an Islamophobe and they call for my firing.
	Conservatives don't do that with people like you.
	They write articles like I did, pointing out ironies.
	But I think that's more of it.
	I think you're trying to say conservatives are Christian and the Muslims are...
	No, I'm not.
	I'm talking about...
	I'm saying this is a religious issue, right?
	Christians and Jews...
	No, it's not.
	I'm Jewish, so I can speak from that end.
	It's not.
	You don't...
	You know, my friend Modi has a joke where he goes, you don't see Jews blowing up buildings, they buy the building, burn it down and collect the insurance.
	You know, there's jokes like that.
	But the point is, Jews don't...
	You don't see Jews and Christians getting upset over it.
	Now, if I made it, they'd say I'm an anti-Semite front page HuffPo if I made that joke.
	I don't know if that's true.
	It's absolutely true.
	It's happened several times.
	There's a great Onion article where they talk about this.
	We could talk about what religions it's safer to make fun of.
	I'm not talking about religion.
	I stand arm in arm.
	Listen, I sat down and I spoke with Jim there at the Comedy Cell.
	I remember we were talking about the separation of church and state, and he believed that the churches should lose their tax-exempt status, and I explained to him why I disagreed, and we had a long, drawn-out conversation.
	This is a guy who talked about performing oral sex as six-year-olds under the balcony in Monster Rain.
	We wouldn't find a lot of common ground in our material, but we would stand hand in hand on the idea of free speech.
	Him and I would have much more in common than you and I would on this issue.
	That's my point, because he says it's all okay or none of it's okay.
	You're still selective.
	I would agree with you on that.
	I'm just saying there's two ways of defending comics, and this is all I'm trying to carve out.
	Okay.
	There's that he's just doing a joke as a defense.
	And I think that's a valid defense in a lot of contexts because people are like, you don't get the joke.
	He's making a joke.
	He's not trying to be insulting.
	He's doing his job.
	And then there's just the free speech in general, which is, you know, it's all speech or no speech.
	It's the people that try to sneak in under the first and not the second that I have a problem with.
	Right.
	And that's my point.
	When you have a guy, did you read that article to Jerry Seinfeld from HuffPo?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Did you think it was the most stupid, horrendous, social justice warrior piece of shit you've ever read in your life?
	Oh, the thing...
	When Chris Rock came out with this way before Seinfeld did, he had a similar...
	No, no, the guy at HuffPo who wrote...
	Who wrote to...
	Oh, I 100% agree with you that it was...
	Yeah, Jerry...
	I totally stand by what Jerry Seinfeld and Chris Rock said.
	Right.
	I performed at these colleges.
	I can tell you a crazy...
	I was at Assumption College...
	Which is a religious school, but it's neither here nor there.
	We're just talking about colleges in general.
	But Assumption College, I was performing there, and the student organizer, the adult, basically, the non-student.
	The ones you have to sit around with because they don't have a green room sometimes.
	The one who has to sign the check, right?
	So she says, all right, you're going to go on stage, and if I find anything you say inappropriate, I'm going to take a step towards the stage.
	And if I get to the stage, I pull the microphone and I rip your check.
	It was basically censorship, you know, red light, green light.
	Let me guess, it never happened with you.
	Sorry?
	Let me guess, you didn't rip up your check.
	What happened was, when I had five minutes left, I decided to get her as close to the stage before she pulled the mic.
	Okay.
	Within the first four minutes, my check would have been ripped up.
	And I can tell you why, because I was banned from several colleges, as well as comedy clubs.
	But I would argue, again, like we're arguing about a college has the right to choose sort of who they do and don't book.
	When they paid me, they gave me a contract that said I had to follow these certain rules.
	And if I didn't want to follow those rules, I didn't have to take the gig.
	But my point is college, generally speaking, leans very far to the left.
	Where do you find censorship of free speech?
	Never from Reason Magazine.
	Never from even, you know, even when I was talking with Matt Stone of South Park.
	We were in Austin.
	And he did this RTF thing and my brother was at UT.
	And we have this friend, Zach Anner, who you've probably seen.
	He had his own show on the Oprah Network.
	And he's very funny.
	Yeah, I love that guy.
	Yeah, he's hilarious.
	Now, I don't know if you'd call him a, he's certainly not a stand-up comic, but one of the funniest people I've ever met.
	Well, I can't stand up.
	but I'll be with you.
	Well, he hates cerebral palsy comedians who bank on cerebral palsy.
	He hates it.
	He's like, okay, so you're in a wheelchair.
	What else you got?
	He gets really upset about it.
	No, he's super hilarious.
	Yeah, but he's not a stand-up.
	So we were there.
	So the thing is, you know, Matt Stone comes in and talks to everyone.
	And listen, we use him.
	Those are legitimately brave guys, by the way.
	Yes, they are.
	And, of course, they've been accused of hate speech by people like you for making fun of transgender people.
	Your leftist colleagues.
	Same like me, but I've never accused them.
	My point is...
	Okay, well, let me give you an example, just real quick, because he, remember, he was up there.
	Because we're not talking about religion.
	You would acknowledge college is very liberal.
	That happens in liberal areas.
	Most colleges, but there's a lot of private schools that are as far...
	The majority of schools, I think, lean left.
	Not even Pepperdine or, what's it in Schaumburg, Wheaton.
	My wife went to Calvin.
	In Grand Rapids, a Christian college, and very, very far to the left.
	So very, very few.
	I think maybe Liberty University and Hillsdale are the only slightly right ones.
	That's fair.
	Oh, Zach Ganner.
	So Matt Stone was there.
	I remember all these stupid hippies, leftist hippies, who I hate because you can't stand in Austin.
	They show up at Cap City and then boo you for making a joke about Hillary Clinton.
	Now what happened was he was talking about South Park.
	And was talking about the episodes doing Muhammad.
	And he said, you know, Comedy Central said they wouldn't air the episode, or we did Muhammad.
	And we said, well, that's fine, but we're going to make it a three-parter.
	So it's going to be three episodes of the ten that you pay for this season.
	You can do whatever you want.
	So then all these people were talking about it, and they were going, well, how do you compare?
	Someone asked something along the lines of, you know, how do you compare the outrage from Islam versus the Christians when you did Jesus when you started out?
	And they were really outraged, and they wanted to boycott you.
	And Matt Stone said, they never boycotted us.
	So no, Christians never did that.
	He says, as a matter of fact, they were actually very nice.
	They just wanted us at a later slot.
	And we actually used that because we wanted to be at a later slot with more leeway.
	This is South Park talking.
	So I'm not even talking about Christians or religion.
	I'm talking about anti-authoritarians versus the social justice warrior left.
	But even then, Christians are much less quick to boycott, certainly to make threats compared to Islam.
	Right.
	Or anyone else.
	I mean, that's the point I'm making.
	Jews are pretty good, too, about it.
	I mean, we get upset, but you don't see them.
	It usually doesn't come to violence.
	Jews have been insulted for thousands of years.
	They generally are running away from the violence.
	They just take your job.
	Yeah, they just buy your company and take your job if they get pissed at you.
	That's what they do.
	Because they got all the money, kid!
	Haven't you heard?
	There you go.
	The Jews run Hollywood!
	I wrote an article on that once, and someone accused me of being anti-Semitic, and it was called, Do the Jews Run Hollywood?
	And I talked about the Weinstein brothers.
	And I don't know, you might be trying to get a deal, so this might piss them off.
	And I said, like, the Weinstein brothers, if you want to go, like, how they act Jewish, and I listed the heinous things that people say they've done, I go, that has nothing to do with Judaism.
	It has everything to do with being a heinous human being.
	So Jews don't so much run Hollywood, if you're talking about people like the Weinstein brothers, as assholes run Hollywood.
	So don't tar and feather the whole good Jew.
	And someone said, I can't believe how anti-Semitic that was.
	And it was front page of all the leftist sites and they got mad.
	I totally get that.
	The social justice theory of using these words as a way of ending the conversation and saying, oh, that's anti-Semitic, and then just leaving it at that.
	Right.
	Meaning, it's anti-Semitic.
	That's bad.
	It's bad.
	It should be removed.
	And I get that that's not...
	I disagree with that tactic.
	But you just said that earlier.
	Well, my point, though, is to say, once in a while there is something that is genuinely anti-Semitic.
	So we do want to protect the ability, and this is also speech, of somebody writing in and be like, holy shit, that was actually really anti-Semitic.
	Why did you publish something so grossly anti-Semitic?
	Does that happen often?
	Probably not.
	But I'm saying this goes for any kind of thing.
	But the point is that you're right about everything you just said.
	But you said, does it happen often?
	Probably not.
	Okay, we agree.
	Right.
	Now, if you were to read the front page, HuffPo, Salon, Daily Kos, any of those sites, Media Matters, or CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, or any sitcom, you would think that racism, anti-Semitism, and homophobia is around every corner.
	And a perfect example is they use the same basic arguments that you use with Kim Davis.
	She had a ton of divorces.
	Yeah, listen, I talked about Kim Davis and caught a lot of flack for the right on Kim Davis.
	I said, listen, whether you like it or not, it's the law of the land.
	Well, that's the most important argument, right, is that she took a job and her job is to...
	Yeah, but the other problem is, first off, the Supreme Court doesn't make laws.
	And secondly, even if they had the ability to, the laws changed when she had signed on.
	So it'd be like you signing on to a contract and someone changing the rules.
	So in that case, she has every right to say, listen, you changed the rules on me.
	I don't want to be a part of this.
	Now, it's a problem when she says no other clerk can sign off on it in her district because her name's there.
	But I absolutely believe that Kim Davis should be able to say, hey, and let's be honest here, okay?
	The gay guys who go in there and want to get this...
	Like, you can be gay, just don't be such a pussy.
	Oh, I want her to...
	Well, you can get someone else to sign it.
	Oh, I want her name!
	I want...
	Like, you can go anywhere else and get your stupid certificate signed, and then they're holding each other weeping because somebody else...
	Like, listen, it's the law.
	You can get married.
	She didn't want to.
	Get it signed from somebody else with the weeping.
	It's just...
	We've become such a nation of absolute pansies.
	But I think you can sympathize with them.
	They wanted to make a story out of it.
	Can't you sympathize with them a little bit?
	No, no, not at that case.
	At that case, I would go...
	You know why?
	Because I have too many good gay friends.
	The reason I think we should sympathize with them is because these are people who have fought for their rights for a really long time to get married.
	They would like to get married where they live.
	And a person who is legally obligated to sign off on that...
	That marriage certificate is refusing to do it despite the fact that they lost.
	And she's not letting anybody else do it either.
	Or you could go to a different district.
	Yeah, but they want to get married in their district, and it's their right to.
	It's ridiculous.
	It's their right?
	Okay, it's their right, but my whole thing is, is it their right?
	You could have gone to a different pizzeria to cater your wedding.
	I want that one!
	You could have gone to a different bakery.
	I want that one!
	The gay mafia have become bullies right now, and it's creating way more...
	I think we have to...
	No, no, hold on a second.
	This is very important.
	It's creating a much more hostile environment for gay people than is necessary.
	That's the issue with that, when you're forcing private businesses.
	My point is, I think this is what happens with a lot of these arguments, is if you take anything to its extreme, it starts to become ridiculous.
	Any religion, when it's taken to its extreme, starts to get really ridiculous.
	The point is, social justice warriors...
	I don't agree.
	I think social justice warriors, when you take them to their extreme, and some of them do go to the extreme, it's ridiculous.
	But I think the other side of it, which is when people...
	I think hiding behind social justice on an extreme side is bad.
	But I think hiding behind religion when...
	Not all of these people, but there are some people who are just...
	Being gated and don't like gay people and are hiding behind their religion.
	No one is hiding behind religion.
	That's the point.
	Here's a perfect example.
	You decided to set a narrative before we had that conversation that didn't exist in order to accuse someone of doing something they weren't doing.
	You said it was religion.
	No.
	Most people who have a problem with the Supreme Court decision has nothing to do with religion.
	A huge portion of those people...
	You said the word most, which indicates numbers.
	Where are you getting those numbers?
	Okay, let's say a huge portion of people.
	I would disagree with you.
	Okay, let's say it's not necessary.
	Let's go as far as it's not.
	I'll play the entire semantics game so that I can boil down this point.
	So hopefully you'll allow me to.
	Let's say it's entirely unnecessary.
	And even people like Ted Cruz, and I just called out Joe Rogan on this, where he posted a quote from Ted Cruz that was completely inaccurate.
	And he actually walked it back and said, you know what, you're right, we were just kind of joking about it, but you're right.
	And it was Ted Cruz saying, there's no place for gays or atheists in my America because of the Constitution.
	That's a pretty damning quote.
	He never said it.
	It's entirely fabricated.
	It's not necessary to make a religious argument to say that the courts should not be forcing states to recognize a new definition of marriage.
	Now, ideally, they wouldn't be involved in the marriage running business to begin with.
	I would agree with you there.
	Marriage is not a right.
	We both agree that...
	Well, I would just say it doesn't have to...
	We could have civil...
	Everybody could do...
	The way to give gays equality was to either give them the same rights that straight people have now or get rid of it for everybody and just say, you know what?
	We could have this partnership thing so that we can deal with taxes and all sorts of the paperwork-y stuff.
	Which they had.
	And insurance.
	We won't call it marriage, and it'll just be this partnership thing.
	And if you want to get married, or whatever, go to your church or your rabbi, and that's not our deal.
	And that would have been equality as well.
	Which they had.
	They had that, but it wasn't enough.
	Well, no, but my point is, this is the government going out of all marriages.
	They were doing straight marriage.
	No, you were talking about them having, they had civil unions, and it wasn't enough.
	Here's the point.
	It was going to 32 states.
	No, that's not what I'm saying.
	What I'm saying is...
	Yeah, I understand what you're saying.
	That the government shouldn't be involved in marriage.
	It should only recognize civil unions.
	Period.
	Period.
	For straight people either.
	If they're going to be involved with straight people, then they need to be involved with gay people too.
	No, they don't.
	That's my argument.
	No, they don't.
	And here's why they don't.
	I know we're disagreeing, but I'm saying that's my argument.
	I don't want it to be mischaracterized.
	Right.
	Yes.
	Okay, so let's go.
	And I understand where you're coming from, and I don't think it's an indefensible position, right?
	And here's my problem with comedy nowadays is this sort of pseudo-liberal intellectualism where they've claimed it.
	Not you, but like Norm MacDonald said, the whole pseudo-intellectual liberal atheist is so hack now it's unreal.
	You go into a comedy club.
	It's a bunch of hipsters with handlebar mustaches who are spewing this bullshit, who have no idea as to what the First Amendment even says, let alone the Second Amendment, have no concept of constitutional law or states' rights.
	And they go up and act like everyone doesn't agree with them because they say, yeah, we love gays, or somehow yahoos who don't understand it.
	You won't find more simple people today than in the stand-up world.
	And it wasn't always that way.
	I mean, I would disagree.
	I think – I think it's very hack.
	I think we're in an area that I'm a huge expert in, which is comedy, so that's great.
	Um, but, uh, I've been doing it for 11 years, too.
	There you go.
	But I think there are two main scenes.
	There's sort of the mainstream club scene in comedy.
	There's an alt scene.
	And something that Bill Burr has talked about and I've agreed with is that there is sort of a conflation of the alt scene and the hipster scene.
	I think what you're describing is the hipster scene, handlebar mustaches, everybody kind of talking about the same ideas.
	And I think most of the comedians who are at the forefront are not hipster comedians.
	And all niche comedy gets lazy because they're performing for crowds that like what they're liking.
	Um, when, when a liberal comic performs for a liberal audience, obviously he's going to get applause breaks by towing the party.
	And that's my whole point.
	Your entire niche is all of Hollywood with the jokes you do.
	But I would, I mean, as somebody who tours the country and performs all around the world too, and has been attacked on stage multiple times for what I've said, I, I, I don't think it's as safe as you think it is.
	I've literally been attacked multiple times for saying what I said.
	It's one of those things where you can say it, but you can't prove it unless you have the video footage, and we would be glad to run it.
	I do have the video footage.
	I would love to see the video footage of you getting attacked on stage.
	I can send you the audio from my phone.
	Wait, hold on a second.
	I don't want to see you getting hurt.
	Let me make sure, because someone's going to hear you.
	I know what you were saying.
	Yes.
	I would love to see that footage.
	You go to the CARE website, and you can find me on their list.
	I can't travel to Europe.
	No, I literally, I have multiple audio on my phone.
	I'm happy to flirt to you, although it's boring audio, but you hear the beer bottle hit the wall of me going, what the hell?
	You know, so it's...
	I would agree it's easier to do that kind of comedy where you're pro-gay or you're anti-religion, whatever it is.
	Obviously, it's easier to a liberal audience.
	But when I perform in New York or when I perform...
	New York is as liberal as it gets.
	Last time I performed in a Comedy Cellar and bombed, by the way.
	Hold on.
	I just wanted to finish my thought, which was...
	Go.
	A lot of the rooms I perform in, I perform in comedy clubs.
	Those are tourists who are from all around the world and they're from all different walks of life.
	So these are not...
	I've done rooms that are mostly New Yorkers and it probably Ben's more liberal.
	But these comedy clubs where it's tourists that are coming out of Times Square, that is a huge cross-section.
	And I would say when I say, hey, who here is from New York?
	One hand goes up.
	Two hands go up.
	So these are not...
	No, but even...
	Let me change that a little bit.
	Firstly, people who go to comedy clubs, because they tend to be so profane, tend to be less conservative.
	Secondly, you're in a big city like New York.
	Most tourists, if they're coming in from Europe, tend to be more liberal.
	And thirdly, even the people who are conservative.
	I've had people come up after I bombed.
	And actually, a comedy seller bombed miserably.
	And the reason was I made a joke about Barack Obama and there was...
	Well, I don't know if it's the reason.
	It could have just been a crappy set.
	But there was a That's another thing, by the way, is that there are comedians who hide behind their bad jokes and say, they didn't laugh because they don't agree with my point of view.
	Sometimes a shitty...
	Nick Apollo is a perfect example of somebody who is pretty conservative in his viewpoint and murders the seller every night.
	Murders New York.
	And it's because funny is funny.
	At the end of the day...
	No, no, let me tell you why it's not.
	It's because of things that you've said earlier.
	Because I've had some people come up and I hear them go, oh!
	Man, I thought that shit you said about Muslims was so funny, but I didn't want to laugh.
	Same thing happened, I remember, at Comedy Cellar.
	I made a joke about Barack Obama.
	Like, what was the joke?
	Let's hear it.
	There was a table with these black women at the front, and one actually said, and I actually find it funnier now, looking back, where this was like the first 20 seconds of that pitch.
	She goes, That shit's racist!
	And I was like, oh gosh.
	And then no one wanted to laugh and I kind of got them back.
	But it was just a quick, it was a throwaway tag onto a bit about Barack Obama.
	What was the tag?
	This is where I said, you know, labeling him.
	The tag was rated most beautiful person in the world at this point.
	People rated him.
	And I said, that's just a perfect example of the love, I don't remember the exact joke, the admiration from the press, where you give that label to someone like Hugh Jackman, and it was a callback to earlier talking about how I'm not gay, but I do Hugh Jackman, providing context.
	I said, you give it to Hugh Jackman, not the guy who looks like the photo negative of Alfred E. Newman.
	Oh, that's funny.
	That shit's racist!
	And so no one laughs.
	It's not even my best joke.
	It's a tag to move on to the media, and then I move on to Detroit, and I have all these hipsters who are going to...
	So it moves on to Detroit and liberals.
	And this bit is always killed, whether it's a comedy club, whether it's a college, or whether it's a conservative audience, about people going to Detroit who are going to save it through art.
	I realize, is that a fact?
	Skyler.
	And I go into the idea of...
	I mean, this is just a pure comedy opinion.
	But I do think anytime you push a point of view hard like that, where you say liberals as a broad stroke, or I think audiences, regardless of opinion, I've seen very liberal comics.
	But you can do it with Christians like you did.
	That's my point.
	You do it all the time.
	Listen, man, let's just be honest about it.
	You do it all the time when you're set, and Bill Maher does it all the time, and Jon Stewart does it all the time, but if someone does it on the other side, it's a problem.
	DiPaolo has to disguise his views.
	Oh, no, I'm not saying it's a problem.
	That's why I use DiPaolo.
	DiPaolo gets his point of view across, and he does it in a really funny way, and the audience loves him.
	The audience loves him.
	He's not disguising anything.
	Yeah, he does.
	Yeah, he does.
	Apollo?
	Yeah.
	Even if you hear his radio show and you have him on, or Dennis Miller, they talk about it.
	They're like, I can't believe getting started in a club this day.
	This is my genuine problem.
	A real fear.
	No, it is hard.
	I agree.
	I have a lot of friends, you know, when you talk about you shouldn't make rape jokes.
	You know, I have a lot of friends who had to deal with, you know, with bloggers and these, you know, what you're calling social justice warriors.
	Coming out and saying you can't say those jokes, it really comes down to, well, first of all, when we're talking about comedy specifically, I can't practice my jokes alone in my room.
	Every other art form, if I was a guitar player, I could play my guitar in my room and get better.
	I can't practice without an audience.
	So there are going to be comedians who say things that even they themselves are horrified by.
	I agree.
	Because they're working things out.
	I had one that I said that I was like, oh, okay, that was too far.
	Oh yeah, there are jokes where like, oh shit, I went too far.
	And that's why we have to give comedians special protection because they're just experimenting.
	But that's my point.
	But my point is, and I think maybe I didn't say it clearly enough, and that's on me, but I think comedians get the special protection because they're giving rough drafts to the audience in a way that no other artist has to do that.
	And to judge somebody for a rough draft is kind of inappropriate.
	I think if people start to abuse, if I start to carve this special You know, special protection for these comedians and say, hey, they're doing rough drafts.
	You got to give them some leeway.
	You don't want other people coming in and be like, oh, I'm a comedian too, and this was just a rough draft.
	You're like, yours wasn't a rough draft.
	You're just trying to protect yourself.
	But that's an exception probably more than the rule.
	I just think that...
	My point is, and I don't believe in any of the rough drafts, and that's a point, you know, and I actually have a bit about moving into Detroit where I talk about how they're going to save, you know, Detroit and these hipsters moving in.
	What do you mean by you don't believe in a rough draft?
	You don't think that's the best?
	No, I don't believe...
	No, my point is I don't believe that...
	People going out there do rough drafts and say, well, actually, that was racist.
	I believe either it's all okay or it's not okay.
	A good example is I've made rape jokes.
	I have a joke about the tag is I have a whole bit about Detroit and actually ended up doing a video that got three million plays.
	It became sort of more of a journalist video based on a stand-up set from Detroit.
	But the bit is all these hipsters move in and all of a sudden there's an epidemic of hipster Rape.
	Surprise!
	Who'd have seen that one coming, Skylar?
	It's laughing at a hipster getting raped.
	I think it's pretty funny.
	And it gets a pretty good laugh because everyone hates Skylar the hipster at this point.
	Now, I made a joke that was not a rape joke about Ashley Judd at a big conference.
	Of course, because it's conservative, people go, oh, this is a rape joke.
	And this is just a tag adding in before I was introducing...
	I don't even know if it was Peggy Noonan or Sarah Palin.
	I don't know.
	I was going on and kind of just doing some stand-up between sets.
	Of course, if a liberal does it, it's totally fine.
	If a conservative does it, it's a problem.
	And the bit was Ashley Judd had just actually – it was in the news.
	She said that buying Apple products was akin to rape.
	I don't know if you remember that because they're raping the earth of its resources.
	And this isn't even a very funny joke.
	It was just a tag before introducing someone else who was talking about conservatism and new media.
	So that was a tie-in.
	When you're emceeing, these aren't jokes you put in your specials.
	Right, I agree with you there.
	Yeah, you know what I mean?
	You're kind of like, okay, I have to write this out for this.
	So what was the joke then?
	Ashley Judd just again tweeted out that purchasing Apple products is akin to rape from her iPhone.
	So it was that, and I moved on.
	Kind of laugh, okay, chuckle.
	And then the tag was, well, really, it's rape just because you don't like something.
	Then she knows how my wallet felt after Divine Secrets of the Yaya Sisterhood.
	Like, oh, you raped me again, Ashley Judd.
	And they were going, Stephen made a joke about raping Ashley Judd.
	Front page Huffington Post.
	No, I would stand by you on that one in the sense that clearly that was not what you were...
	I don't support anybody taking people out of context.
	Yeah, but the point is this only happens in leftist enclaves.
	In social justice warrior enclaves.
	I don't know if that's necessarily true.
	I do think comedians tend to be liberal and progressive, but I think that speaks to more of what their values are, right?
	Yeah, and I think it's a parasite eating the host, because progressivism is destroying and will ultimately destroy comedy.
	I mean, I would just say that I think the idea is conservatives tend to...
	We keep talking broad generalizations.
	But I think conservatives tend to be more traditional in terms of traditional values and liberals tend to be more pushing it forward.
	And comedians tend to be in that camp.
	It's the opposite.
	I would say the opposite.
	The counterculture has become the anti-authoritarian right.
	The traditionalist, the person who says it's all okay...
	The grandfather making the racially charged joke on the porch.
	That guy's fine for hate speech, to use your term, which I don't believe in.
	And comedians have tried to paint themselves into a safe enclave.
	And you have a lot of comedians now from the older school who've complained about it.
	People like Jerry Seinfeld or Chris Rock or Nick DiPaolo.
	No, I stand with them, and I do agree that there is a fear that you...
	I think when we talk about the rough draft, one of the biggest fears is you want to talk about these rough topics, right?
	You want to do a joke about things that people are talking about and feel passionate about.
	And the reason I say rough draft sometimes is...
	In trying to figure out the best way to say something, sometimes you have to say it.
	When you're writing an essay, oh, that paragraph didn't come out right.
	You rewrite it.
	It didn't come out right.
	And you keep rewriting it.
	I have a joke about how I don't have rape jokes.
	It's a bit that took me a long time to write.
	And the early drafts of that are jokes that I wouldn't stand behind.
	They're jokes where you're like, oh, that was not the way I meant to say it.
	And that's what the process is, is figuring out how to say what you actually mean to say.
	But no one gets that process anymore.
	That's my point.
	Because of progressivism, No one gets that process anymore.
	Some kid getting up who wants to do stand-up.
	That's not true.
	No, it's absolutely true.
	I've talked to young comedians who are going, oh my god, you can't believe it.
	They're terrified to get up at an open mic night.
	I'm saying they've got to stack up.
	No, but that's the point.
	We're in such a politically correct, charged atmosphere now.
	And everyone has a smartphone.
	And because people like you actually believe in the myth that is hate speech or hate speech laws, you have some kid who's afraid to push them.
	You know what pushing the boundaries is right now?
	Pushing the boundaries is going up and using the word tranny and making a joke about how absurd the transgender movement has become and how nobody should give a shit and how it's ridiculous.
	That's what's unsafe.
	Someone has a smartphone and they report that to that kid's college dean of admissions and he's no longer in a college.
	That's what stand-ups become.
	People are so afraid.
	And it doesn't come from the right.
	It only comes from the left trying to censor speech.
	It's the same thing if you look at Andrew Breitbart, right?
	When Andrew Breitbart, when everyone said, the left said, oh, they called Congressman, you know, Clyburn, they called them the N-word as they went up to the Capitol steps.
	All the left had to do was say that happened.
	You probably still believe it maybe even happened.
	It never happened.
	Andrew Breitbart offered $100,000 to the United Negro College Fund.
	It's okay I can say Negro because it's still the name of the college fund.
	They didn't change to the new politically correct term du jour.
	I think it's people of color.
	And he said, if anyone can find any footage of them calling these congressmen the N-word, I will put $100,000 down.
	We found more footage than we could watch in a lifetime.
	Hours from multiple angles, and it was never said.
	But it was never corrected from the left because they want to tar and feather everyone who opposes them as racist, as homophobic, as transphobic.
	Well, first of all, the funny thing is, I don't know if you saw my next appearance on Last Comic Standing, but I did an NAACP joke where I talked exactly about that.
	And Norm still didn't like that joke.
	About them calling Clyburn the N-word?
	No, no, no.
	My joke was the NAACP is the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.
	Not that advanced to still use the term colored people, but they can't change it to African American, because then their group name would just be, nah...
	Okay.
	And there's more tags.
	That's funny.
	It's never as funny when you say it now, believe me.
	Full disclosure, he's a funny comic.
	I'm not laughing because it's not funny.
	It's not the same dynamic.
	No, it's weird when it's two people at a webcam.
	Absolutely.
	We're on the same page.
	It's awkward.
	100%.
	I'm just saying that, you know, when we talk about safe, not safe, there...
	I want to protect all speech, but I don't want people to say, oh, they're trying to prevent me from saying something that is on equal footing.
	What I mean to say is I think race is easy because we all agree racism is bad.
	I think most of us can agree that if you're legitimately racist, you're not a good person.
	Can we agree that's pretty simple?
	So my point is, the edgiest, most brave thing you could probably do is go on stage and be absolutely racist, because no one would agree with you.
	If the definition of bravery is saying something that nobody could possibly agree with, then it would definitely be brave to just be super racist on a comedy club stage.
	But that's not the kind of speech we need to be encouraging or going out of our way to be like, oh, let's make sure he doesn't...
	If he doesn't get booked, good.
	He's a huge racist.
	Yeah, but the point is people like you, and I mean you, not people like you, I mean you.
	Let me clarify.
	Sure.
	We're lauded as risky by Roseanne.
	Every single person...
	But I'm not using that term on myself, by the way.
	What?
	I think that's very important.
	It's not like I went off out of my way and said, guys, I'm going to do this real brave set.
	LAUGHTER Watch out, Norm MacDonald.
	I'm about to be the bravest boy in the world.
	But you came on here trying to fact check my piece, right?
	When my piece, the entire theme to the piece was really about Roseanne and claiming it was risky, and Norm MacDonald said that it wasn't.
	And the riskiest thing said never was Norm.
	All I was saying was, it says gay comic, that was inaccurate.
	We both agreed on that.
	I'm not entirely sure that it's inaccurate.
	I wouldn't be surprised.
	Nice.
	Alright.
	Did I mean that pejoratively?
	No, I meant that in a question.
	No, that's fair.
	But have you read the Washington Post?
	There's a great article today about gaydar and how a new study shows that most people's gaydar is terrible and that gaydar is really just an excuse to use broad stereotypes.
	Dude, don't give me that shit.
	Don't try and act like I'm so off-base to assume you're gay.
	I would be more off-base to assume you're not gay.
	And I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years down the line, you change hats and you're using it to weaponize against me, to make me look like the dick who thought a guy was gay who wasn't gay.
	I will use a joke from my act, just so you don't think I made it up because of this.
	The joke of my act is, and I think this...
	I express myself better through my own jokes, because those are the things that I've worked on and polished.
	Sure.
	But my joke was just, when people say I'm gay, I get upset because it's like, I know about what I like.
	It would be like if I was like, hey...
	I don't like cucumbers.
	And somebody's like, oh, you like cucumbers.
	I'm like, no, no, I don't like cucumbers.
	They're like, you sound and you look like you like cucumbers.
	Like, that's my point.
	Yeah, and I'm that guy.
	I definitely still think so.
	You're not gay.
	You're wearing the jersey.
	But you're calling me a liar is basically what you're saying.
	No, I'm not.
	I'm just saying it's not like I went out on a limb to assume it.
	You're using a broad stereotype of what gay people are.
	Yes.
	Right?
	So that's already bad.
	It's not bad.
	I don't think it's bad at all.
	Listen, come on.
	That's the bullshit that I'm talking about.
	What, are you saying most guys talk with a lisp and act femininely?
	Yes.
	There's a great documentary called Do I Sound Gay that just came out.
	It would be well worth checking out.
	I think that speaks to my point more eloquently than...
	But again, that's the difference.
	Assuming something because everything, all the information you have available to you is not the same as being hateful.
	Here's an example.
	Yes!
	Yes, I am!
	You're going to call me out for an extreme example, but if you said, oh, that guy sounds dumb, he must be black, people would be like, that's horribly offensive.
	That's not the same thing at all.
	I purposely said I was taking it to a far extreme, but what I'm saying is this is not on that level, but you're still basing something on a stereotype that doesn't exist.
	There are gay people who talk real butch.
	Bullshit.
	There may be some gay people who talk butch, but don't say that stereotype doesn't exist.
	This is the kind of talk I'm talking about.
	You go to any single person and any and I know this because any person has been in a green room with you and you've been with other guys.
	If they're talking or telling a story about a gay guy nine times out of ten, they're telling a story like this.
	We just had Milo Yiannopoulos, who's as gay as humanly possible, propositioning me on this program.
	And yeah, he fulfills that stereotype.
	He would talk about it.
	The stereotype wouldn't exist if zero people fulfilled that stereotype.
	So it's not wrong to assume it, especially in a realm where there are a lot of gay people, you're in New York or having a sound.
	I've had this talk before.
	It's fine if you make the mistake, but once corrected, there's no reason to hold on to it.
	No, I just think it's funny.
	Oh, then by all means...
	I think me saying, and because Gay Jared here laughed when I said, I'm not entirely sure, gotta laugh.
	I think it's funny.
	I'm fine with people making jokes at my expense.
	And that's not me saying like, you're a dick, you're a bad person, you're going to hell.
	It's making a joke.
	Jokes are fine.
	I defend jokes.
	That's what I'm saying.
	I mean, listen, I almost would want to have you back on to know what it's like.
	Because we get a friend, I can't use his name.
	I can't use his name because he's too close with me.
	Okay.
	I'm going to try to, like, well, let's call him Gay John.
	To the point where I would always call him Gay John.
	And my wife was like, he's not gay.
	I was going, no, no, no, no.
	He probably doesn't feel good about being called Gay John.
	I didn't call him Gay John to his face.
	Okay, gotcha.
	Because I know a lot of Johns.
	That's not his name, but he has a name that actually a lot of other friends have.
	So I'd be like, Gay John?
	Gay Jared, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
	Yeah, you're not talking about Gay Jared.
	No, I'm not talking about Gay Jared.
	Just to clarify that, too.
	Sorry.
	Yeah, I love how we stop this the entire time until he comes...
	You're just staring at Jared being like, I'm talking about you.
	Yeah.
	Well, since we're in the off thing now, we keep it going on air, but we always come back from breaking and go, producing always Gay Jared, and he's like, not gay.
	And it's implied that he's made a lawsuit and his Twitter handle is not Gay Jared, so we joke about this a lot.
	He's very metrosexual.
	But this guy was not metrosexual, okay?
	Again, like I said, you come across that way.
	Sorry.
	It doesn't mean I hate you.
	But this guy come across like I was with him anywhere we would go.
	Gay Jared, you know who I'm talking about.
	Yeah.
	Would you doubt for a second?
	You met him.
	No, I was absolutely astonished that your wife said, surprised.
	He's the kind of, like, gay where, like, Richard Simmons would show up and be like, oh, that's kind of severe.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, really gay.
	And my wife for a long time was like, he's not gay.
	I was like, he's gay.
	And here's the thing, I was like, I don't care, but it was awkward because I'm going...
	We had to keep the lie alive.
	Listen, I do have plenty of gay friends.
	No, he is now.
	But here's the point.
	That entire time, she was like, why don't you like hanging out with gay John?
	It's not because he's gay.
	It's because it's very uncomfortable because I offend almost everyone.
	And, you know, if I make a joke, a gay, which guys make, doesn't mean you're homophobic, like, oh, that's gay.
	Oh, yeah, I bet you would.
	I'm just saying there's a difference between somebody who's in the closet and somebody who has sex with women saying he's not gay.
	Right.
	Well, here's the point is, like, you know, we'd be talking about, and he went on a date, he was dating a girl at one point.
	And so it was so uncomfortable because I have to be like, so how are things with so-and-so?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And you're just like, this guy's just like, he's just faking it, you know?
	To the point where it was a lot easier to be friends with him when he was like out of the closet.
	Now, when he came out of the closet, I told my wife, I said, okay, he assumes that you know, okay?
	Because I've been with him when he's been propped.
	Like guys have checked him out and given him their number.
	They assume it's not a secret to him that he came across as gay.
	I said, what he's saying is things are going to get weird, right?
	And he was on Tinder, Grindr, which is the gay one, like, right away.
	And that's why he came out of the closet, because I was like, okay, you're going to see a lot more of a revolving door of men.
	And it's a lot easier to be friends with him.
	But that was a perfect example.
	I was just like, listen, I just don't buy it.
	And it's sorry, but guys make those stereotypes.
	They're going to make that judgment.
	I just feel like...
	The only reason I get in any way upset about it, and I have a very thick skin.
	I don't give a shit.
	I talk about it on stage.
	It's not like this is a thing that is like...
	But my point is just, when somebody is like, yeah, no, I'm a very honest person.
	I'm very open.
	If I was, I would be out about it.
	I just am not.
	I'm not calling you a liar.
	Yeah, that's my point.
	I just think the audience is going to get a kick out of it because it's pretty funny.
	That's why.
	I have a feeling your audience is going to be a lot of comments about people saying, oh, he's definitely gay.
	Probably.
	And potentially getting to bad words and homophobic things.
	I don't believe in the term.
	I don't even know what homophobic means.
	I don't know anyone who is physically afraid of homosexuals.
	I think if you mean someone who hates gay, just say someone who hates gay people.
	Sure, I can say that.
	Homophobic is a stupid term.
	Sure.
	We'll say people who just hate gay people.
	Yeah, because homophobic is allowed to be blanketed, and it's then applied to someone who is against judicial tyranny.
	I think people who hate people for their race are called racist, and we've agreed that that's the word.
	So I think homophobic is the word that is just the one that's being used.
	If you want to propose another word, I am happy to use it.
	I'm not attached to it.
	Homosexualist.
	Michael Che has a great joke about the word homophobia being ridiculous.
	And it's a great joke because you can feel the tension in the room as everybody who's like, but we like that word.
	And then he releases that tension because he's so smart about it.
	Yeah, well, that's a great example.
	People get uncomfortable because they're afraid of being labeled homophobic.
	Exactly.
	His joke is he goes, I don't like the word.
	He goes, I'm going to butcher his joke.
	But the idea is...
	We've both done that with other people's jokes.
	It's okay.
	Maybe they actually did have something.
	Maybe they were genuinely scared by...
	Maybe they have a gay ghost in their house that is genuinely scary.
	And so they are legitimately homophobic.
	Like, he creates a scenario where you could legitimately be scared of gay people without hating them.
	Yeah.
	Because he has this gay ghost in his house.
	But my point is you say that's okay, but if someone goes up and says the word is stupid and, you know, gay is still silly.
	I think the word is stupid in so much as the word phobia is probably not being used as best as it could.
	Yeah, I had a bit about that.
	I don't know why.
	I'm fine with that.
	You know how it is.
	You butcher your own jokes for this.
	It's been a while.
	I said, I don't know anyone who's actually afraid of homosexuals.
	Not to mention, if it is a real fear, how do you cure someone of it?
	Is it like when I was a kid, afraid of spiders, do I have to touch one?
	Put your hand on Richard Simmons Sweating the Oldies Volume 4.
	I can't!
	It was that kind of bit.
	Oh, absolutely.
	I wish there was another word, because I do agree with you on that point.
	But there are people who hate gay people.
	But you know why that's the word?
	It's by design because it's easier to use it as a blanketed term for anyone who opposes anything involving gay people.
	Well, I think it's easier to say than gayists.
	I don't think so.
	Gayist is shorter.
	I don't know if I like the word gayist.
	Gayist also is a word for, like, gay, gay, or gayist.
	Yeah.
	So I think there'll be a lot of confusion.
	If you're like, oh, you're gayist, they might think they're the gayest person, as opposed to against gays.
	Yeah.
	Well, you know, the word fat makes me hate word really quickly.
	And I used to have a bit where I said, you know, now, as a conservative, and this is one that got me into trouble in a lot of colleges.
	This is when I was...
	So I'd been doing stand-up for a few years, and I was...
	Well, I was like, when I was doing, you know, APCA and just horror, just the horror of those conferences.
	They're just terrible.
	You do it and you go to these...
	I can't imagine going...
	There's a great article in The Atlantic, which is all about sort of the sense of self-censorship as a comedian at NACA. It's wonderful.
	I think you would actually really...
	Well, in Canada, it was COCA. And it was even worse.
	Canada was COCA. And there was NACA, APCA, right?
	They're like different conferences.
	Um...
	I don't remember which one, but what was I going to say?
	Something about it.
	Oh, oh, oh.
	So I used to have a bit because at that point I was younger than a lot of kids who were still graduating college.
	You know, I started saying it when I was 17.
	And so, you know, nowadays, and this is, again, dealing with the hipster thing.
	This was before I really knew I was conservative, by the way.
	I kind of found out like, oh, I'm pretty conservative because I hate people who censor free speech and I hate political correctness and I don't want to pay higher taxes.
	And yeah, I'm a Christian and I don't really care if anyone else is.
	But I think that's how I kind of found out I was a conservative.
	And the bit was, you know, I'm now being told to be tolerant to alternative lifestyles from the same gentleman who a mere year ago referred to me as faggot.
	And that was the bit, and it was a lead-in to the hipster bit, and it got me in a lot of trouble out of college.
	I was like, did you understand the context to that bit?
	Oh, I've gotten in trouble for crazy things at colleges.
	I mean, yeah, I think...
	Well, comedy clubs are just as bad, though.
	No, it depends on the club.
	It really depends on the club.
	It depends on the book or at the club.
	Absolutely.
	And I've had that happen.
	And it's their right.
	I mean, they're a private business, right?
	It's their right, but it also breeds one point of view at most in the stand-up world.
	I would think that there's enough.
	There are enough.
	I've seen a lot of bookers, and you've probably met a lot of bookers.
	They're a diverse group, I think.
	Maybe not the most diverse group in the world, but there are a lot of conservative bookers and a lot of liberal bookers.
	No, bookers.
	Jared was thinking hookers.
	Sorry, he was asking me a question.
	No, I've never met a conservative booker.
	Well, he's not the booker.
	Owner of a comedy teller.
	Know him.
	Right.
	He's pretty conservative.
	He's very conservative.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, but he's not the booker.
	No, but he's the owner and it's very important to him that comedians are protected and can say whatever they want.
	That's true.
	He's unbelievable about that.
	Yeah.
	Not every booker and booker is like that.
	Yeah, and most liberal bookers.
	I can tell you about one where it's the club.
	I think most of those liberal bookers would book Nick DiPaolo, don't you think?
	Well, yeah, but he's been in for a long time and he wasn't more open about his conservatism until later.
	It's funny.
	It's not just a funny thing.
	Again, that's the thing.
	It's not just a funny thing.
	When you've been on the front page of news outlets for a joke, it's almost always a conservative.
	It's happened to me.
	My fighting back is just not caring and I only do private shows now.
	I'm not going to go up in some comedy club or go to a college where we literally get protesters.
	We had protesters at shows for a comedy show.
	I had to do, you know, I do a Q&A afterward.
	I had someone fact-checking my jokes, which is why I got a little irked when you were, you know, about the column, you know, getting on the title.
	I said, well, that wasn't the point to the piece.
	Right.
	But I think my main reason for being upset at the beginning, and I've gotten drunk with Ann Coulter.
	Yeah, I know.
	Yeah.
	Well, she's like super close with Sherrod over there on the comedy show.
	Yeah, she's a pretty amazing person.
	I don't agree with any of her views, but she's- I don't agree with many of her views.
	Yeah.
	I don't think there's many...
	Yeah, I don't know if she agrees with any...
	She's a big Trump fan, and I've gotten so much flack for not being...
	Which is crazy.
	But...
	We agree.
	My whole thing is, the article...
	We've talked by Twitter, we've talked through this thing.
	You've agreed that I'm somewhat funny as a comedian.
	No, I've said you're funny!
	Right, but the article says that I'm basically not.
	So I think there was...
	No, the article doesn't say you're not funny.
	It says, who doesn't think actual comedians who are actually funny?
	I mean, it's...
	If that's in there, then that's not fair.
	That's in there, and then it says the look on the quote comedian's face.
	That I'm a comedian is in quotes.
	Okay.
	So I think the tone of it was pretty clearly against me and my humor.
	That's fair.
	So I think, you know, I think, if anything, we have mostly...
	Yeah, so that was...
	That's fair.
	And like you said, you know, with a site where we do that many things, you know, sometimes framework goes into other writers.
	And that's why I'm all about this kind of conversation.
	And I fall on that sword.
	I'm not passing it off to a writer, but sometimes I'll be like, okay, frame this in.
	Because I was the one who watched it and called them and said, hey, this is something people are doing that, right?
	No, I would never call you not being a comedian into question.
	So I will go back and fix that.
	And I'll fix it.
	I won't issue something else like HuffPo where they issued an apology if Stephen Crowder didn't use the N-word and it was four pages.
	And the other thing, by the way, too, is you quoted from The Hollywood Reporter.
	This is literally...
	No, that was something else.
	That was from...
	No, that was in...
	I'm looking at the article.
	Yes, but it was about something else and we did provide it in the context where he talked about atheist comedians and being a Christian.
	Right, but yeah, and it also didn't link back to it.
	And this is literally, my grandmother was an English teacher, and so this has nothing to do with my, like, this has nothing to do with anything other than, like, as both creative people, I always just get irked when people aren't, don't link back to the origin of where it is.
	Go through the website.
	I think if you go through the website, you'll find we're pretty damn fair.
	We hyperlink everything.
	I'm absolutely being nitpicking, and I'm sure there's somebody who's going to be like, why is he going so...
	And by the way, You would not find a single leftist who would allow me to come onto their program like this unedited and do it.
	You won't find it.
	Chelsea Handler edited that shit.
	That's why no one would want to go on who didn't agree with her directly.
	It was always edited to make her look funny.
	I mean, Bill Maher is live, so there's no editing there.
	Yeah, except he has his crowd of absolute trained seals and silences.
	I mean, I'm just saying there are people who are live.
	There's no way to edit.
	Well, he's a perfect example.
	Okay, can we both agree that Bill Maher, nine times out of ten, puts politics over the funny, is open about those stupid conservatives all the time, and his little head lilt is the cue for his audience to laugh, even if it's not a joke, and it's just a political point, and you could never have that with someone from the If you paint liberals the way...
	Here's the way I look at it.
	I'm not.
	I'm painting Bill Maher that way.
	But I'm saying there's a spectrum, right?
	And there are people who are way far right and way far left, and I think you're way far one side, and Bill Maher is way far the other side.
	I don't think I am.
	And you guys are equally wrong.
	I don't think I am, though.
	I don't think I am.
	I know you don't think that, but I think most people listening...
	I think I'm much more consistent.
	I'm not talking about consistency.
	I'm talking about just sort of how far on the political spectrum you fall.
	Well, if you see freedom of speech as far right, then I think, yes, then we have an issue.
	That's not the only...
	I'm saying, just across the board, there's a spectrum with liberal on one side and conservative on the other side.
	I think most comics and most people try to stay towards the middle.
	No, no, no, no, not even close.
	Listen, if that were the case, Bill Maher would have much harder time than all the comics are going on.
	And you are actually right in terms of the data is showing that people are becoming more radicalized.
	I think that's why we're getting less done.
	They're not becoming more radicalized.
	They're becoming further left.
	Listen, if you're talking about to the right...
	Further left and further right.
	What do you consider far right?
	I mean, the Tea Party is considered farther right than the Republican Party.
	Do you consider Occupy Wall Street far right?
	Occupy Wall Street is probably more far left.
	Okay.
	Well, let me tell you something.
	Before Occupy Wall Street, the Tea Party came out.
	Do you know how the Tea Party started?
	It was from a rant from Santelli.
	Okay?
	And this was on either CNBC or Follow the...
	I don't know.
	One of those money shows.
	And it was against the big Wall Street banks and the bailouts.
	The Tea Party...
	And I've spoken and performed and done bits at Tea Parties.
	Just another gig where you show up and do it.
	Yeah.
	We talked about big banks and the bailouts and being against it long before Occupy came out.
	Yet in the comedy community, if you go up and say, you know what?
	I think the Tea Party's got this kind of right.
	Oh my God, you're racist.
	How dare you?
	you but you go up and actually had to debate a comedian on a montreal radio cjad you can find on my youtube channel about the occupy protests the only difference between the tea party and the occupy protest is one was organized actually had influence over politics committed no crimes and one had a list of over 400 felonies the occupy protests where they were shitting and smearing their aids blood all over tents and writing signs about it like aids blood right so So that's...
	No, that's literally a thing.
	There's actually a sign and shit and blood saying there's AIDS on your tent at Occupy in Toronto.
	I would not defend that.
	That's not a joke.
	My point is they come out and everyone goes like, I remember even, I don't know if it was Mark Maron or if it was, I don't know who it was, but it was like...
	My point is there are issues that are typically liberal and typically conservative in terms of abortion.
	You know where conservatives are mostly going to fall and you know where liberals are mostly going to fall.
	But then you have someone like Christopher Hitchens, who's an atheist libertarian who undeniably will acknowledge, well, did, obviously, late Christopher Hitchens, acknowledge that the science declares it a life.
	See, I'm not pro...
	I'm not saying there aren't exceptions.
	I'm just saying there's a liberal conservative spectrum in American politics, and Bill Maher, you would agree, falls way far on the left side.
	Would you not agree?
	I would say Bill...
	I don't know about the spectrum you're talking about.
	Bill Maher is a leftist.
	Right, but you wouldn't consider yourself a rightist?
	No.
	I would consider myself a conservative.
	I call myself a conservative.
	I think the problem is when it's your point of view, you have an open mind and you have a reasonable opinion, and the other side is too extreme.
	And I'm saying, I think you're very extreme on one side, he's very extreme on one side, you're both very extreme on your opposite side.
	I don't think it's fair to say that Bill Maher is...
	You're saying he's too extreme because he's too far left?
	No, no, it's not.
	That's not why I'm saying it.
	That's not why I'm saying it.
	And I don't think it's extreme to stand for freedom in all cases.
	You know, people have gotten mad at me.
	You don't think Bill Maher also stands for freedom?
	No, I don't.
	No, I don't.
	That's such a broad term.
	Yeah, I absolutely don't.
	When you want to take more of what I earn having created a business and give it to someone else, that's theft.
	I don't think that's freedom.
	When you want to talk about censoring speech because it's something you don't like, I don't think that's freedom.
	When you want to talk about paying for somebody else's health care, I don't think that's freedom.
	When you want to talk about forcibly paying for an abortion, I don't think that's freedom.
	When you want to talk about the Supreme Court forcibly...
	Here's my point.
	We could disagree, and I'm happy to disagree and have conversations where we disagree.
	Right.
	But once you start saying, like, if you disagree with me, you're anti-freedom, which is the converse of what you're saying, that's a problem.
	I do.
	I think that if you believe in hate speech laws, you're anti-freedom.
	Absolutely.
	My point is, for example, if you're pro-abortion, it doesn't mean you're in favor of murder.
	You can disagree.
	I acknowledge that people have a difference of opinion.
	Yeah.
	You know what I mean?
	And I think the problem is when you start saying, like, I'm for freedom.
	You're for a very specific set of beliefs.
	No, I'm not.
	Listen, that's...
	You don't have specific beliefs?
	No, no, no.
	I'm not for enforcing a specific set of beliefs.
	I'm not.
	You're for enforcing your set of beliefs on every state and every clerk and every church in the county.
	I'm not.
	You're for enforcing your beliefs on what speech should be applicable and what shouldn't, as we've seen in Canada.
	I'm not.
	You're for enforcing your speech on what you think people...
	People should be able to access as far as healthcare and what people should pay in taxes.
	I'm not.
	Nobody's forcing you to have a gay marriage, and nobody's even forcing you, unless it's your government job that you signed up for.
	No, but the courts are forcing individual states to recognize something as a human right.
	Just like they force individual states to recognize interracial marriage.
	It's not the same thing at all.
	See, we disagree on that.
	Yeah, I think it's a huge—and I think that's a perfect example of a great disservice to an entire race of people with a rich and varied history to compare it to one's preference of sexual friction.
	I'd like to acknowledge that everybody is trying to do—I'd like to think everybody's trying to do the right thing and is trying to be a force for good.
	Oh, come on.
	I just think a lot of Bill Maher and your side, both of you guys, you both are trying to create straw men and try to oversimplify things so that your side seems obviously correct.
	You really think I've oversimplified things here?
	I explained you constitutional law.
	You just kind of disagree with you.
	You're anti-freedom.
	That's not what I said.
	You said that.
	I said I don't think that supporting freedom in all facets is extreme.
	That's what I said.
	Sure.
	For example, I don't believe in drugs.
	I don't believe in drugs.
	If someone wants to smoke crack, go ahead.
	Okay.
	That's not me enforcing my beliefs.
	Fine.
	Now, I don't think marriage should be involved.
	Government should be involved in marriage.
	But if Texas wants to say, hey, three women marrying one guy is legal and two guys getting married is not, I think Texas has that right.
	My view allows for more freedom than your view or Bill Maher's.
	Well, that's more of a libertarian view than a traditional conservative view.
	Yeah, I think libertarian is a cop-out term because Glenn Beck, Greg Gutfeld, and Bill Maher all consider themselves libertarians.
	It doesn't mean anything.
	Okay.
	Well, there's still words that have meaning attached to them, regardless of whether they're missing.
	But you just say, you know, it's this whole moral...
	Well, Bill Maher is one way...
	No.
	One person believes in freedom consistently, and that's me.
	And what's funny is a lot of people are like, Stephen believes in banning pot.
	But I'm saying Bill Maher and people that agree with him, and I agree with a lot of...
	You know, when it comes to, for example, gay marriage, we believe that the people who think gay marriage should be legal, we believe that prevent that...
	Why?
	It should be a...
	My question is why?
	Why do you think gay marriage needs to be the law of the land as per the court, which doesn't have the authority to create laws?
	Why?
	What's your justification?
	Freedom.
	We're going to use the freedom argument because you should have the freedom to marry regardless of your sexual orientation.
	So you believe that marriage is a fundamental human right?
	I'm saying it's a right that straight people have and equality requires...
	And it's a right that gay people had just as much.
	They just didn't want to marry people of the opposite sex.
	This is, again, you could do this.
	No, no, no, I'm not.
	You need to rationalize your argument as to why marriage is a fundamental human right.
	I've already declared that it's not.
	So I don't need to justify it.
	Why is marriage a fundamental human birthright to any person you want?
	No, no.
	Again, what I said, and I don't like being taken out of context.
	I'm not.
	What I said was, straight marriage, straight marriage is on the books, right?
	Right.
	We agree with that?
	Sure.
	It's on the books.
	Correct?
	Okay.
	So, if I believe gay people deserve equal rights, then I have only two options.
	Correct?
	I can either take away straight marriage so that nobody has it.
	Now see what you just did is you did something where even earlier you were talking about gay marriage and people are gay marriage.
	It's just marriage.
	No, you have to start off by calling it straight marriage.
	Because either marriage is on the books, which is a man and a woman being recognized.
	That's your opinion.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	If you say straight marriage, then you can't say, you can't go back and say, well, you can't go back and say, well, why say gay marriage?
	It's just marriage.
	You can't do that if you say straight marriage.
	I'm not saying that.
	We're having a...
	I don't think straight marriage or gay marriage is either marriage or it's not.
	You're picking apart not even my language.
	I'm saying gay versus straight because it makes this argument clear.
	I'm trying to be as clear as possible.
	End of story.
	There's no agenda other than clarity.
	Okay.
	If we have straight marriage on the books...
	But it's not called straight marriage.
	It's always been called marriage.
	Continue.
	You know what I'm saying, right?
	No, I don't, because marriage was one man and one woman.
	That was the definition of marriage.
	It wasn't called straight marriage.
	Word, marriage.
	In the U.S. as far as law, one man, one woman.
	That was marriage.
	That's why it matters.
	Because otherwise, if you say straight marriage, then you can say gay marriage.
	It was never called straight marriage.
	It was called marriage.
	Now, that definition was marriage, man and woman.
	You believe that marriage, man and woman, is a fundamental human right that should be applicable to anyone.
	Why?
	Well, first of all, we're going to go that far into what the definition of marriage is.
	The definition of the word marriage is the legal union of a couple as spouses, period.
	No, as a man and a woman.
	Not according to history or the law.
	A good example, would you support bigamy, polygamy?
	I do.
	I think now that same-sex marriage is the law, I do now.
	I do as well.
	So you understand that.
	You have to acknowledge that then.
	I'm acknowledging it and totally fine with it.
	My point is though, we're talking about gay couples who are trying to get married.
	I believe gay people have the same rights as straight people.
	I don't believe marriage is a fundamental human right.
	I don't, for straight people or gay people.
	Yeah, but here's the thing.
	If straight people are getting stuff by being married, and they are, then...
	They are getting something that is being denied.
	Well, hold on a second.
	Hold on a second.
	Here we get to another reason, right?
	And this is important.
	The reason I'm saying this is because you want to have this discussion, and I think you said earlier that I was simplifying arguments.
	I think you're simplifying an argument here.
	So marriage is in the books.
	We both agree it would be best if the government recognized civil unions, marriage to the churches, right?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	But it's on the books.
	So we both acknowledge it's on the books, right?
	Right.
	Okay.
	Why is it on the books?
	Right.
	Because, in this country, they said, oh my gosh, before federal government, before state government, before municipal government, the most important central building block to a society, to a functioning society, is a nuclear family.
	A mother, a father, and children.
	And so, through tax incentives, through property incentives, we want to encourage that because...
	No, no, but that's exactly why this is written.
	That's not why.
	That is exactly why it exists.
	That is absolutely why.
	As a matter of fact, it was written out and it would be so absurd that it would be changed that they didn't even consider it.
	But the idea was, again, limited government.
	The same reason that federal government, their authority, was very, very limited in their purview compared to state government, right?
	That's the idea of federalism.
	But these are the same people who thought black people were three-fifths of a white...
	No, no, that's not true and it's not a majority of people.
	Just like if you look, people, it's the same thing people try and say, well, you know what?
	We took the land from Native Americans.
	We had slaves.
	No, no, no.
	We fought and we changed it.
	Okay?
	Right.
	That's what I'm saying.
	We need to, so let's change our view about it.
	No, but it's not the same thing.
	And here's why.
	Why can't we fight for women's mother?
	Do you believe men and women are fundamentally interchangeable?
	Because you're not going to let me finish my point, so let me simplify it.
	Do you believe men and women are fundamentally interchangeable?
	Because let me explain this to you.
	I believe that a black mother can provide anything that a white mother can to a child.
	I do not believe that a man can provide anything to a child that a woman can.
	I believe that they are intrinsically unique and valuable.
	Do you believe men and women are fundamentally interchangeable?
	I think when it comes to raising children, all the studies...
	Do you believe men and women are fundamentally interchangeable?
	Because that has to be the basis of marriage being a fundamental human right to all sexual orientations.
	What I'm trying to say, and I think this is pretty obvious, but is that men...
	Do women and men offer different things?
	Potentially, sure.
	But a gay couple is offering different things to their children than a straight couple, too.
	So either way, there's...
	Any two parents will be different than any other two parents.
	You haven't answered my question.
	Are they interchangeable?
	Are men and women fundamentally interchangeable?
	When it comes to parenting, I think it's yes.
	You think they are?
	Okay.
	Sure.
	Scientists, biologists would disagree.
	That's fine.
	So we're talking about a right that you have to recognize, okay, why is it on the books at this point?
	Why does it exist?
	What's the interchangeability of genders?
	And of course now the idea is that gender is just a societal precept and it doesn't really exist, which is funny because if that's the case, it flies in the entire face of the transgender movement because to say that you're transgender, to say that you were born the wrong gender.
	This tends to be the tactic when people are losing an argument, is they tend to bring in everything that they possibly can so that I can't respond to all the points.
	No, okay, so I asked you very point blank if you believe men and women were fundamentally interchangeable.
	No, no, because I asked you if men and women were fundamentally interchangeable and you wouldn't answer it.
	It's a very simple issue.
	There are gay couples.
	Do you believe men and women are fundamentally interchangeable?
	When dealing with the issue of it being a fundamental birthright, let's get down to the fundamental aspect.
	I am saying that there are gay couples, they exist, and we either choose to recognize them as equals to straight couples or not.
	As parents, as spouses, end of story.
	I choose because I have evidently more of a libertarian point of view than you do.
	No, you don't.
	You don't.
	You don't.
	See, that's the thing.
	Here's the thing.
	Here's what you do.
	You apply something that was never said.
	Just like you did with Norm.
	Well, he was booed.
	He didn't get the joke.
	You don't know that he didn't get the joke.
	You don't know that your view is more libertarian than mine is.
	I already agreed.
	I don't think that the government should be in the marriage-running business.
	My point is, and if you would have been able to answer the simple step-by-step, is this.
	If they have to be in the marriage business, you leave an equality, and it's got to be equal.
	You throw out the term homophobic.
	You throw out the term things like hateful or people who hate gay people.
	There are people who hate gay people.
	There are people.
	But here's my point.
	There are a lot of them.
	I am one of them?
	No, I said there are a lot of them.
	Oh, okay.
	Here's my point.
	There are a lot of people out there, most people who oppose the judicial tyranny that's taking place, who don't hate gay people.
	By the way, including Christians who think that homosexuality is wrong just like promiscuous sex is wrong.
	Regardless of if they've had divorces or they've been promiscuous, those people can have those standards and not be homophobic and not be hateful.
	That's what I was getting to.
	When you get to that point and you accept that fact, throwing out blanketed terms like homophobic, it creates a more hostile environment.
	This is great because this loops us all the way back around to the original joke that we were talking about, which is my point is, People who don't think gay people deserve equal rights or shouldn't be allowed to get married.
	That's bullshit, though.
	Those people are not talking about equal rights.
	So you throw out terms like homophobic, equal rights, pro-choice.
	No, it's not.
	If I say marriage is not a fundamental human right to anybody, and that's a lot of people who agree with me, you can't say that it's about equal rights and I'm trying to deny equal rights.
	If the government was giving $1,000 to anybody who's married, Right?
	Or anybody who's in a couple.
	Let's say, if you were in a relationship, let's make it simpler.
	The government decides we're going to give a $1,000 check to anybody who's in a relationship.
	But we define a relationship as different genders.
	So if you're in a gay relationship, you don't get that check.
	I would say that it's pretty messed up.
	I think both people would say that that is a bigoted way to do that.
	That is a messed up thing to do.
	Would you not agree?
	Well, no, I think it's a messed up thing that, again, as a leftist, the first example you go to is government giving away money.
	But you're just distracting because...
	No, I'm not.
	I'm not.
	I think it's indicative of a mindset.
	Because that's not what's happening.
	It is what's happening because when you're married, you get certain rights that do affect you financially.
	No, no, it's not.
	It's not when you're talking about civil unions.
	And it's the same reason why civil unions weren't enough.
	States completely recognizing marriage.
	It's a way for people to pretend that they're separate but equal.
	Civil unions is separate but equal.
	Just like you.
	Here's the thing.
	You not only believe...
	They both get water fountains.
	Let me walk you down and you can correct me if anything that I say is...
	Segregation was not acceptable.
	Separate but equal is not a thing.
	If you can correct me if anything I've said down the trail, then I'm going to go down the trail here because you say that I was trying to bring in everything.
	So I want to simplify it down to everything that you've said.
	Okay, so marriage is a fundamental human right.
	Okay, fair.
	No, regardless of whether it's a fundamental human right, if it's a right that's being offered to straight couples, it should be offered to gay couples.
	Okay.
	End of story.
	So you're saying it's a fundamental human right?
	No, I'm not.
	Yes, you are.
	It doesn't matter if it's fundamental or not fundamental.
	It's a human right.
	Okay, if any man...
	Okay, let me, again, simplify it, boil it down.
	I don't mean to get mad and say that I'm editing you or taking it out of context.
	I don't do that.
	If any men and women can get legally married in the United States at all, it should be a fundamental right afforded to any heterosexuals or homosexuals as well.
	Correct?
	Right.
	Okay, that's fair.
	So...
	That's the case.
	Now, you don't believe that that should be left to the states.
	Correct.
	We're not arguing about the Supreme Court.
	Yes, we are.
	I'm walking out, but yes, we are.
	No, we're arguing whether or not gay marriage should be legal.
	No, we are.
	We're arguing about, right now, you talked about Kim Davis.
	This is what got us down this trail.
	Judicial tyranny.
	So, marriage, if it's available, I want to make really clear, because I don't want to misrepresent your argument here, because I want to get to my point.
	If it's available to any men and women at all, It should be available just as freely to men and men, homosexuals.
	And women and women.
	Yes, absolutely.
	It should not be left to the states.
	Texas shouldn't be able to say, we have our definition of marriage and California gets to vote and have their own.
	I would agree.
	Okay.
	So it shouldn't be left to the states.
	So it can't be civil unions.
	It has to be marriage.
	And the states have no say in it.
	Here's the thing.
	When we talk about the Supreme Court case for interracial marriage, it was the same thing.
	There's a lot of states that didn't want to allow interracial marriage.
	And that's why we have three breakages.
	Yeah, but it wasn't a religious argument from those people.
	It doesn't matter.
	It does.
	First Amendment does matter.
	So let me again continue.
	So states have no right.
	So marriage is a fundamental human right.
	People did use religious arguments.
	No, hold on a second.
	And there's a reason that people who fought against it more than anyone were Christians.
	Not even close.
	Just like Christians were the ones, Christian Republicans were the ones who ended slavery.
	Christian Republicans were the ones who passed the Civil Rights Act.
	Okay, it's always been Christian Republicans, never been liberal Democrats, ever.
	Robert Byrd, fourth in line for above in the presidency.
	Hold on, hold on.
	KKK Dental and Company Car.
	That is so bullshit.
	Yeah, no, it's completely accurate.
	The liberals are as Christian as Republicans.
	How many Jews or Muslims are there in the Senate or Congress, especially if you go back in time 50 years?
	So to say that anything that Congress did, period, was by majority Christians and continues to be by majority Christians.
	It doesn't change the fact that Christian Republicans were the ones who passed the Civil Rights Act and did slavery and segregation.
	There were the Republicans.
	There were as many Christians against it as there were for it.
	No.
	That's so true.
	No, it's not.
	Absolutely, you're wrong.
	No, I'm not.
	We can look it up.
	This is a fact.
	You can go ahead.
	It's not true that there are just as many Christians opposed to it.
	Some people tried to use those arguments.
	I'm not entitled to my own facts.
	You're wrong.
	I know.
	You're incorrect.
	No, you're incorrect.
	So you believe that Democrats passed the Civil Rights Act?
	You believe Democrats added civil rights?
	No, no, no.
	That's not what I'm saying.
	You believe the KKK Democrats, Robert Byrd, who just said nigger, nigger, nigger in 2001 on television?
	That's not at all what I'm saying.
	Okay.
	You made it seem like the Republicans passed it because they're Christian.
	No.
	And what I'm saying is...
	I said Christian Republicans.
	No, I didn't.
	You called them Christian Republicans.
	Christian, yes.
	And those liberals that were racist, whatever, those Democrats, were just as Christian as the Republicans.
	Okay.
	They were a minority.
	No.
	It's a wash.
	It's not a wash.
	They're a minority.
	That's why they lost.
	Okay?
	If Christian Republicans weren't a majority, meaning more popular than any other point of view, it never would have happened.
	If they were not a majority, it never would have been passed.
	They had to have the more popular view in the entire country and the entire representative government for that to pass, by the way, by a pretty significant margin.
	You're talking about Republicans versus Democrats on a decision, correct?
	No.
	That's not what I was talking about.
	I said an idea that was abolished by Christian Republicans.
	And fought just as hard by Christian.
	Who lost.
	The Christian thing is not the right word.
	Who lost.
	It wasn't non-Christian fighting them.
	The point is a majority of Christians, a majority, it's like the stupid argument that people use when you go back, use the interracial thing and the flat earth thing.
	Flat earth thing was never a Christian thing.
	Flatter thing was never a Christian thing.
	It was never a mainstream Christian thing.
	Interracial marriage was never a mainstream Christian thing.
	Just like when the early settlers came and they were basically getting married and having all kinds of children with Native Americans.
	What was that?
	So being against gay marriage is a majority.
	No, what I'm talking about is someone being forced to violate their religious conscience.
	Nobody's being asked to force their...
	You don't have to get gay married if you don't want to.
	And you don't have to...
	If you're a priest, you don't have to get married people.
	You absolutely do in other countries.
	That's where it's going.
	Denmark and Canada, you do.
	It has a constitution.
	That constitution gives the Supreme Court certain powers.
	The Supreme Court used those powers.
	And if she doesn't want to do her job...
	What powers the Supreme Court has, Harrison?
	What powers does the Supreme Court have?
	Let's schoolhouse rocket.
	Since you want to say you're wrong and not tell your facts, what powers does the Supreme Court have in regards to laws, Harrison?
	School me.
	I'm just a simpleton Republican who thinks he's entitled to his own facts.
	There are three branches.
	They are checks and balances.
	They are allowed to rule.
	Why are they not allowed to rule in that case?
	Do the Supreme Court have the ability to create laws?
	They have the ability to interpret the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, which according to the majority of the Supreme Court, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is sufficient grounds to protect the rights of gay people to marry.
	That's not creating laws, and you could read the decision yourself if you don't seem to understand the basic English that they use.
	Yeah, no, I did.
	I did.
	And even justices...
	And you're allowed to disagree with it, but it's not them creating a law.
	It's them interpreting...
	No, it is.
	It is.
	And that's the thing.
	It has nothing to do with the Constitution.
	Again, my whole thing is I think states should absolutely have the right to, just like states have the right to determine divorce laws.
	For example, I don't think that it's, I think it's morally reprehensible, and I think we would agree, that a woman can marry a guy, and I understand why the law was created to protect women right at one point, but a woman can marry a guy and cheat on him and leave him, leave with more than half, right, in California, and then live with a boyfriend using the marriage law, never getting married again, so they can collect alimony.
	Wouldn't we both agree that's reprehensible?
	Yeah, that's a misuse.
	That's somebody abusing the system.
	But that can happen in one state and not happen in another state.
	Sure.
	So even though I think it's morally reprehensible, I support that state's right to determine that law.
	And when it comes to marriage, states have always had the right to determine those laws.
	And in this case, we've decided that they don't.
	That's the issue.
	So my point is this.
	Let me just clarify.
	My only issue is this.
	We have a disagreement.
	No, no, hold on.
	Let me clarify.
	You're not allowed to mischaracterize my argument in our disagreement.
	No, no, but you mischaracterized mine.
	Here's my point.
	My point is this.
	You throw around the term hate speech earlier.
	You throw around the term homophobia.
	You talk about certain speech should maybe be allowed and certain speech isn't.
	My point is this.
	When you do that, there are arguments to be made on all sides.
	There are arguments to be made on all sides that aren't reliant on hate or on racism, including against same-sex marriage.
	Absolutely.
	Just like I think that there are...
	Personally, as a libertarian, and I get so much crap for this, I really think that the increased usage in marijuana is probably a bad thing because a lot of young Americans are smoking marijuana.
	The more we learn what it does to the developing brain, it's probably pretty harmful.
	But I also think states have the right to do that, and if you want to smoke up on your own house, go ahead and do it.
	I think that's pretty consistent.
	The struggle is with social justice where your leftism, where again, and from what you're saying, and if we're honest, if we rewind the tape, you start off with this idea that anyone like Kim Davis or anyone who was opposed to the worldview that you express, it must be coming from some kind of hate or discrimination.
	That's not what I said about Kim Davis.
	Feel free to rewind the tape.
	Although I greatly suspect Kim, it's hard to...
	I don't like her.
	I think she's probably a bad person.
	I think she is probably a bad person as well.
	But I don't know.
	Neither do I. And that's why I'm not saying with any assurance.
	We started off this conversation where I said, are you using gay pejoratively?
	And you said, yes.
	No, I didn't.
	Oh my God, you did.
	No, I didn't.
	Let me explain.
	I'll give you the exact words.
	As a matter of fact, right now we'll do it as a cutback.
	You said, use it pejoratively.
	I said, sure.
	You said, sure.
	In other words, move on.
	In other words, I wasn't going to fight the semantic point there.
	And then you said, I don't think that's appropriate.
	I said, I think in comedy anything is appropriate.
	So in that context, it's not going, yeah, call them a queer!
	In that context, it's, okay?
	Okay, I'll allow it.
	You could redefine what the word sure means, but sure usually means, okay, I'll agree with you.
	Sure.
	If you wanted to say move on, you would have said the words move on.
	No, I just said sure because I could see where you were coming in half-cocked, mad about the gay thing.
	And I didn't want to get stuck on that point.
	We did it now here later that I feel we've become bosom buddies.
	I was being mad is that you admit that your article was poorly written and misstated a bunch of things.
	No, I don't think it was poorly written.
	If it was not poorly written, then why did you admit to all the inaccuracies in that article?
	I said the inaccuracies, yeah, about you being gay and if a comedian was in quotations.
	But that doesn't mean the article was poorly written.
	I certainly don't think it's as poorly written as...
	I don't think it's as...
	I find any article that has at least some of your inaccuracies poorly written, but we have a different definition of poorly written then.
	Yeah, actually, there actually are a bunch of hyperlinks in there, too.
	There are none.
	I have the article on my screen right now.
	Yeah, there are hyperlinks there.
	There are not.
	I'll pull it up right now.
	Do I need to send a screen cap to you?
	Do you at least acknowledge here at the end of the day that...
	The point to the article is you did something that was very safe.
	Your comedy is very safe.
	I've watched at least 30-something minutes of your comedy.
	I've not seen anything personally that's risque.
	I don't think you have to be risque to be a comedian, by the way.
	I think Brian Regan, Jim Gaffigan, Norm are some of the best comedians out there.
	They're not particularly risky.
	Norm is not risky?
	Are you kidding me?
	Actually, if you look at his early days, it wasn't.
	Now it's become risky.
	As a matter of fact, Norm was as clean and corny as they came when he started.
	Whoa!
	Hold on.
	Do you remember his ABC sitcom?
	Yeah.
	From back in the day?
	Yeah.
	No, I'm talking long before.
	I'm talking about in Canada, back at Yuck Yucks.
	I'm talking about when he started before he got SNL. You know, his bit there was, you know, I saw this here in the Toronto Star, you know, that this guy killed his whole family, chopped him up, you know, and put him in a duffel bag there.
	And when I asked him, he said, because the devil told him to.
	You know?
	And I was just thinking there, you know, what if the devil took off his mask and said, hey, you know, it's me, Bob!
	Oh, Bob, I got my family here in a duffel bag.
	I think Norm has been pretty risky his whole career.
	I mean, he said Blumpkin on national television.
	Well, I've been following him, like, since I was a tween in Canada.
	Back in SNL. I mean, he was, you know, he was not particularly dirty or risky back then.
	I just think the thing about the words, first of all, there's nothing less edgy than talking about how edgy you are or how not edgy you are or whatever it is.
	There's nothing less edgy than a discussion about edge.
	The only thing less edgy is being a liberal comic in 2015, I would say.
	I would say that, and I would stand by that.
	I think it's very, very Mr.
	Rogers.
	I talk about a lot of topics, and especially when I'm maybe not in New York, but when I'm touring the country, there's a lot of pushback.
	I've gotten beer bottles thrown at my head.
	I'm not trying to defend myself.
	I'm not trying to stand.
	I don't give a shit if I'm brave or not.
	Am I funny?
	Am I making good points?
	I talk about religion?
	Sure.
	I think it needs to be talked about still.
	You talk about one religion.
	I talk about more than one religion.
	Do you talk about how silly Buddhism is?
	Or Taoism?
	Or do you talk about Hinduism?
	I have to talk about every single religion if I want to talk about one religion.
	No, I'm asking you any other religion outside of Christianity.
	I talk about Islam and Judaism extensively in my set.
	That's three religions total.
	Because your joke about the Bible was theological.
	What's your theological joke about Judaism?
	I have so many jokes in my act about being Jewish.
	No, but your theological joke about Judaism, about a theological joke taking a jab saying that it's a made-up religion.
	I'm talking about the Old and New Testament together.
	I'll let you give one.
	I'm just saying, I mean, that's what Norm had a problem with.
	When I'm making fun of the Bible, I'm including the Old and New Testament.
	So by definition, it's Judeo-Christian.
	Well, because earlier you said it wasn't even your book.
	You said Matthews, and you made sure to delineate.
	So now you're saying that would be included in a Jewish joke.
	Yes, but I'm saying for that specific joke, we could talk about the fact of how inappropriate it was on multiple levels.
	But all the Bible jokes are pretty clearly Judeo-Christian.
	Okay.
	That's two religions.
	Yeah, I know what Judeo-Christian means.
	Is that what you're going to try and do?
	Do you know what pejorative means?
	Do you know what Judeo-Christian means?
	Do you really think I'm just some right-wing bumpkin who doesn't know?
	That's not at all what I'm saying, but you keep twisting my words, so I have to make sure I'm being clear.
	Well, you said Judeo-Christian is two words.
	Because you haven't been clear with your answers.
	Judeo-Christian is one word.
	It's hyphenated, but that's besides the point.
	We just said that's two religions.
	Two religions, yes.
	You just said two words.
	It's almost as smart as your use of Matthews.
	But I guess we'll defend that because of Urban Dictionary.
	My point was this.
	It's not Urban Dictionary.
	You get a little snippy when you get backed up and you don't have an argument.
	It's not me getting snippy.
	It's that you want to question me for facts and your facts are wrong.
	No, you brought none to the table at all.
	You brought feelings.
	You brought leftist feelings.
	Well, you've never given me an answer as to why some speech should be allowable and some shouldn't.
	You've never really given an answer beyond feelings.
	I'm saying all speech should be allowed.
	What's hate speech?
	What is hate speech?
	Yeah, because you used the term.
	You've never defined it, and I've asked you to define it.
	So you want to say, I don't bring facts.
	At least I'm giving you definitive answers.
	You threw out a term like hate speech where people can be jailed or banned from public speaking in Europe and Canada.
	You better sure as hell define it, and you haven't.
	What's hate speech?
	I can give you the dictionary definition of it.
	No, what's hate speech?
	What should be allowed?
	I'm not...
	See, this is all about taking people out of context.
	I'm not saying that...
	We've been on here for an hour and a half and I'm not editing anything.
	Well, people can rewind the tape and hear me very clearly explaining what you constantly are asking me to re-explain.
	But hate speech is any kind of speech that can incite violence or prejudicial action.
	I'm just reading the definition.
	I'm not saying we should ban hate speech.
	My point is comedians shouldn't pretend that they're hate speech.
	I'll say it very clearly.
	I'm going to be saying it in the most clearest way I can.
	Okay, well just acknowledge that you haven't been very clear because even now you're not.
	The only problem I have is that when somebody who is just...
	I'm not saying we should be jailing people for hate speech.
	But if you are just saying hate speech on stage, don't pretend what you're doing is comedy.
	And I'm not going to protect you as a comedian from your straight-up hate speech.
	Does that happen often on the stand-up comedy stage?
	No.
	That's why we talked about rough drafts.
	That's my issue, though.
	And that's, again, I've been accused of hate speech.
	I know, but the point is the only people using hate speech as a term to prosecute free speech is the left.
	And you leave that door open.
	My point is this.
	You've left the door open to what's allowable and what's not, and I've closed it and said it's all allowable.
	That's our big issue.
	You want the door open to banning speech, and I don't.
	I'm saying it's all allowable, but don't try to parade your hate speech as comedy and then get upset when people say you shouldn't be in a comedy club because you're not a fucking comedian.
	Right.
	No, it's exactly, and it opens the door for you to go, see, this was hate speech, this guy wasn't funny.
	So it opens the door.
	So people can misuse their power.
	And the left does it all the time.
	And you did it right away.
	You said he was booed.
	And he didn't get the joke.
	Just because people can misuse it doesn't mean it shouldn't be used ever.
	People can misuse alcohol.
	Yeah, no, as a matter of fact, I think so.
	People misuse alcohol all the time.
	Should it be banned?
	Absolutely not.
	Yeah, no, I actually would, I go completely on that side that it's all allowable.
	And I think the comedy form, that's where I go.
	You know, Jim Norton, I think, has made the most brilliant explanation on this ever, whereas, you know, with music and stuff, we give so much leeway.
	And with comedy, you know, leftists really want to use things as a prosecutable offense.
	I've seen it, and I've never seen it coming from the right.
	I'm not trying to say that.
	I'm trying to say...
	Well, you'll never be the victim of it.
	That is not true.
	Yeah, you'll never be the victim of someone calling for your job or not being able to travel to countries because you've offended people.
	Are you kidding me?
	Yes.
	You're kidding.
	No, I'm serious.
	You're just looking at the Bible issue, but there's more than enough.
	Most of the comics that I'm friends with have had some kind of issue with that.
	I'm talking about being on an actual list with armed security guards, having to travel with security detail, not being able to go to Dubai, not being able to go to Abu Dhabi, not being able to go to London because of speech that offends.
	I don't think you'll ever experience that.
	I think that's what Norm was saying.
	I think that can only happen, really, if you make fun of Islam.
	I think that's really the only case where that happens.
	And that's why we included that quote in the article for context from Norm in the other interview where he talked about, he said, you know, if a guy got up, because they were asking about the set, and he said, if a guy got up and said, you should all die in the name of Allah, I would say it was brave.
	If a guy got up and said...
	I mean, maybe if it was in context, sure.
	But if somebody seriously was like, somebody got up and said, Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, that wouldn't be funny.
	Who gives a shit if you're brave if you're not funny?
	No, but again, that's subjective.
	And I think you're funny.
	I think you're funny.
	I think that joke was unfunny.
	Norm said, Jesus Christ is our Lord.
	He said, if a guy went up and said, Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, I'd say, damn, that guy's brave.
	And then everybody else in the room would go, but not funny.
	Yeah, but Roseanne was saying you were brave and funny, and Norm was taking issue with something that was clearly wrong.
	She was saying I was brave because she knew I'd get pushback from people like you, and she was right.
	No, she didn't get pushback from people like me.
	I was pushing back on people getting mad and offended at Norm.
	And I was pointing out the irony.
	What you said raised no eyebrows.
	What Norm said raised eyebrows.
	That's the point.
	Norm was more offensive than you.
	Norm was more risky than you in what he said.
	If I had done jokes about puppies, I would have gotten no comments from any side.
	But if I do joke about religion, as you can look at my Twitter account, all I got was tweets.
	I got some tweets in support, but the majority were hateful tweets by religious people who thought it was offensive to make fun of religion.
	And I have to hide my wife in the basement with armed security guards.
	So I guess we all have our struggles when we make fun of religion.
	And you avoid one.
	As you said, you avoid making fun of one.
	You really want to turn this into a who's braver contest?
	That's ridiculous.
	No, I think it matters when you say, well, the only one is Islam, and you don't make fun of Islam, and Roseanne says it's brave.
	It matters because she was praising you for being brave.
	I'm not saying the only one.
	Yes, I didn't ask her to.
	I know.
	I'm not blaming you.
	I didn't say that you paraded yourself out as brave.
	I said Roseanne said you were brave.
	And Norm responded to that.
	If you look at your listeners' comments to me when you posted that article.
	I'm not responsible for that.
	That's not fair.
	No, no.
	It has nothing to do with if you're responsible for them or not.
	If bravery is doing a joke, knowing that you're going to get pushback, then it was brave.
	You're saying that your pushback was more.
	You didn't get pushback.
	That's the whole issue.
	You only got pushback once I talked about the pushback against Norm.
	That's not true.
	Look at Twitter.
	Look at the timeline, dude.
	That's why you said if I were brave, I'd have you on the show.
	Did you go after CNN or ABC or NBC, CBS? They didn't go after me.
	Exactly!
	None of them!
	So because of some blogger with a few million people, a few million people read me and it got you upset enough to want to come on this show because it was so abnormal for you.
	And the fact that anybody went after me and they wouldn't have gone after...
	Does anybody ever go after Gaffigan for Hot Pocket jokes?
	No!
	No, the whole point is no one went after you until I made a comment pointing out an irony.
	You're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts.
	You just said you didn't go after any of them.
	You just said.
	No mainstream outlet brought it up outside of Norma's crazy again.
	That's where I read it.
	Why did you feel the need, compelled, to challenge me?
	This whole thing started again saying, if you're brave, Stephen, you'll have me on your show.
	That's why this conversation took place.
	And I allowed you to come on the show.
	You've sent me 50 messages saying, don't edit me.
	I don't want to do a pre-tape.
	And I said, well, actually, I want to do a pre-tape so we can go on as long as you want.
	So that there's no contextual editing and people can go and check all the sources.
	You were the one who called out my bravery.
	I'm the only one you targeted because it's abnormal.
	That's not true.
	Look at my Twitter history.
	The first article I called out was from a liberal blog.
	Why did you want to be on this program?
	You just said they didn't go after you.
	Why did you feel compelled to come on this program?
	Because a lot of people wrote what I wrote.
	I tweeted at basically everybody who tweeted at me with an audience.
	I'm just happy to debate these things.
	Okay, that's fair.
	I respect the hustle.
	That's all I'm doing.
	But more importantly, I think you and I both respect open debate.
	And I wanted there to be pushback.
	I thought that article was very one-sided, and I think it was fair to have pushback.
	It is one-sided.
	It's like me saying, your comedy is one-sided.
	Of course it is.
	It's me, right?
	It's me.
	It's louder with Crowder.
	It's a point of view.
	Okay, if you want me to apologize, you're funny to have a debate.
	No, I don't want you to apologize.
	I don't want you to apologize.
	But my point is, there's nothing wrong with being one-sided at all.
	The context was, no, there's nothing wrong with being one-sided.
	First of all, I'm in a way applauding what you did.
	I think one of the main problems with this country, and something that you can find in the data, is that we've become a lot more radicalized over time.
	People are much more extreme in their position.
	And I think the way you combat that kind of extremism or radicalism is through healthy debate.
	I don't agree with a lot of what you say, but I respect the right of you to say it.
	And I think having intelligent debate Is important.
	And representing both sides is important.
	And when I found somebody who represented the other side, I wanted to have that debate.
	And I think it's a testament to both of us and a good thing for us to have this kind of discussion.
	Would you at least acknowledge the reason why was because it was an uncommon viewpoint and people weren't really talking about it?
	The reason you noticed it was because there wasn't that kind of pushback until I talked about it and that made you go, oh, okay, I want to rebut this point.
	Your pushback was late.
	I'm sorry to say that.
	Your article is...
	Yeah, actually, matter of fact, we couldn't get it up on Hulu.
	That's why we had to connect it to the interview.
	Hulu had this, you can't download the video.
	Right, but I'm saying I obviously couldn't see a draft of your article.
	That article didn't go up until weeks after that.
	I find the date of it.
	I was receiving pushback.
	It was a week and a half, yeah.
	Then why didn't she go on their shows?
	They didn't have shows.
	But I debated almost everybody.
	Okay, that's fair.
	I'm not trying to be dishonest here.
	No, they didn't have shows.
	That's fine.
	You have a show and you were willing to have me on your show.
	People who just did it with tweets, I responded with tweets.
	And people who did it with emails, I responded with emails.
	Listen.
	People responded by Facebook.
	Twitter is full of assholes.
	Of course it is.
	I have no idea what those people said.
	Of course it is.
	But I can tell you that if I just did a joke about puppies, there would be zero assholes.
	No, but I can tell you this.
	If you did a joke about Islam, the kind of jokes I've done about Islam, you'd be off the show.
	Guarantee it.
	I don't know.
	NBC approved.
	I don't know if that's true.
	And I think if you're being honest, you would bet that way.
	If a gun to your head, you have to bet.
	If you made a joke toward Islam, that was as rough as you made toward the Bible and Christians.
	Do you believe for a second that that wouldn't be a national story or you would be off that show?
	Honestly, if someone holds a gun to your head, you have to bet.
	I think Charlie Hebdo and South Park both proved that.
	I think that would be accurate.
	I mean, if you go watch the videos I've done, they're not stand-up.
	They're online videos, but they're taken from stand-up bits.
	My point is also that...
	Millions of plays, quoting the Quran and acting it out.
	If I'm on NBC, though, and I know that they're...
	My point is just because I can't do one thing doesn't mean I shouldn't do anything else.
	No, that's the whole point, though.
	You can do that on NBC, and I think that was Norm's point.
	It's not risky.
	You can make fun of Christians.
	It's fine.
	If you make fun of Islam, you lose your job.
	And that was the point Norm was making, and I still agree with it.
	Well, I don't know if you would lose your job.
	I mean, I think the Charlie Hebdo thing is a good example of, they didn't lose their jobs.
	They were attacked, and that was awful.
	But not only did they not lose their jobs, but their magazine is more popular than ever.
	You're talking about in France, though.
	It's very different.
	I mean, internationally.
	People bought...
	I have a copy of their...
	Well, no.
	A perfect example is you talk about South Park.
	They wouldn't air the picture of Muhammad.
	Pictures of Jesus for years and years and years.
	No picture of Muhammad.
	Sure.
	But my point is, just because they weren't able to get that through, does that mean they should stop making fun of Christianity too?
	No.
	But my point is, one is risky and one isn't.
	And that was Norm's point.
	And I still agree with that.
	One is riskier.
	No, one is risky and one's not.
	I mean, I would say the fact that there were so many people sent my way.
	The biggest risk you take is someone like me who writes a piece that gets you so upset you want to call them out on Twitter.
	Would you argue that...
	But would you think Hot Pockets is...
	Is that not less risky than a Bible joke?
	I think they're equivalent.
	Really?
	And as a matter of fact, I think you're more likely to get instantaneous praise from people like Roseanne and executives for making fun of the Bible.
	That might be true, but I do think that when you're making fun of somebody's...
	It's somebody's religious beliefs that are very deeply held.
	That is a riskier proposition than being like, hot pockets are hot.
	I don't think so in the entertainment industry.
	I mean, you look at how...
	And this is not me dissing Jim Gaffigan.
	I want to be clear.
	No, Jim Gaffigan is great.
	As a matter of fact, Jim Gaffigan proved to me...
	Remember when the improv was still around in New York, close to Times Square?
	Jim Gaffigan proved to me I was 18 years old.
	And I was there.
	Tony Camacho used to book...
	Remember the improv had the upstairs room that was like a cafe?
	Yeah.
	It was just a horrible room, that room.
	And I lost my glasses in that room.
	I used to have a bit about Clark Kent and I left him in the stool and it was just stolen.
	Those rooms eat up your items.
	Yeah, I know.
	But I remember Jim Gaffigan went in.
	This is an old comedy.
	This is the improv.
	And I was just kind of auditioning to do it.
	And Jim Gaffigan is a little picky, you know, as far as where he would do his sets.
	Like he would look at the room.
	Okay, I'll go up.
	And he's Jim Gaffigan.
	He's one of the best comedians ever.
	Who's going to tell him differently?
	And he went up and he didn't do very well.
	And I thought, like, oh, crap, I'm gonna bomb.
	And I went up, and I did...
	Now, I'm not saying this as a self-praise, because it wasn't good.
	It was not very good stand-up.
	As a matter of fact, I was trying out new stuff, stuff that I don't even do, and it killed.
	And I realized it was, like, a college...
	It was riskier for him to do clean stuff on that show than it was to do...
	No, I wasn't dirty.
	I wasn't dirty.
	Oh, okay, okay.
	But it was very sort of college humor-esque.
	And it turns out there was like some kind of a college, or maybe it was even like a high school graduation.
	I don't know, but the kids were like my age.
	And I remember going like, because I knew, I'm like, I'm nowhere near the comic Jim Gaffigan is.
	And then he didn't get a peep, and I'm like, I know he's a way better comic.
	And I said, you know what?
	That's bullshit.
	Sometimes it is the audience.
	This is a bad audience.
	Of course, absolutely.
	Because I was like, my set was not very good, and his was great.
	And the audience, you know, it would have been like stupid little humor, like...
	When I saw they were young, I started making jokes about MTV or stuff like that, and it worked.
	No, I think he's great.
	I do think you actually get way more leeway, and I do think you get points right off the front in the entertainment industry for taking a liberal point of view.
	Roseanne is suing her daughter because of some conservative podcast thing.
	I guess I would agree with you there.
	I'm not disagreeing with you.
	My point is, because that is my point of view, I'm not going to do jokes about the opposite point of view because that's not my point of view.
	No, I understand.
	And no one should.
	But my point, and I think we're finally bringing this...
	I have no choice but to do jokes from that perspective because that's my perspective.
	Is it the more acceptable perspective to this part of the industry?
	Potentially, sure.
	I think it's an encouraged perspective.
	And here's my...
	Sure.
	And let's end on this because it's going long.
	And because it's my point of view, am I happy that it's the encouraged one?
	Absolutely.
	That's a great position to be in.
	But I think we both agree.
	Well, I watched George Bush.
	To give you an idea.
	George Bush, sorry.
	I watched Norm Macdonald.
	I'm getting tired.
	No one's listening anymore.
	And by the way, listen.
	I hope you genuinely...
	Can we leave an Easter egg for anybody who listened this far?
	We just say something crazy.
	Just call everyone a c***?
	We just say something like, and then I thought hippopotamuses had the biggest dicks.
	And they're like, what?
	I don't know.
	I didn't get that far.
	Genuinely, I'm glad you came on and I want to have you back on the show.
	I think this kind of conversation is great.
	Yes.
	And I think the too long didn't read, you know, the TLDR. The what?
	On Reddit, they have this thing, it's TL colon DR, too long didn't read.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	So if they haven't read it, if they forward it to the end.
	Right, yeah.
	My point is just, I will defend the right for comedians to say anything they want to say.
	Are you accountable for what you say?
	Absolutely.
	If you say something really hateful, you should be accountable for it.
	Do people try to hold people who are not being hateful accountable for being so-called hateful when they're not?
	Well, and that's what's important.
	Absolutely.
	I agree.
	And let me give you some context here that you may not know.
	I don't know if you've ever watched Norm live.
	I'm a huge fan of Norm.
	I think that's what's so funny.
	I'm a huge fan of Norm.
	I love it.
	Well, you've said that.
	And I take your word on that.
	We're having coffee, supposedly, which would be kind of fun.
	Yeah.
	And I do want you to come back on when we're not talking about this, just even other issues because I think you're an intelligent guy.
	Yeah, I would love that.
	Norm, I remember he was doing a show and I saw him.
	I can't remember where it was.
	It might have been Montreal.
	And he had some bit where all he said was a throwaway.
	He said, yeah, you know, I really, I like George Bush there.
	And then people started booing him.
	Yeah, that sucks.
	No, I hate that.
	He said, ah, fuck you, I'm rich, I don't care.
	And he kept going.
	I love that.
	I love that.
	People walked out on him.
	No, I hate that they booed him.
	I know, but here's my point, though.
	So coming from that, where all he said was he likes George Bush and he gets booed, you go up and I think you're, listen, I'm not at all attacking you for it, but you go up and your comments are deliberately aimed toward belittling the Bible and Christians who believe it's a book.
	Absolutely.
	And people cheer, right?
	So one is, make fun of Christians.
	No, they didn't cheer in Lynchburg, Virginia, I can tell you that.
	Oh, that's where the Bob Evans thing happened!
	No!
	I swear to God!
	I swear to God!
	Goddammit, that town!
	It was Lynchburg, Virginia!
	And I got snowed into Lynchburg, Virginia for three days.
	There was no airport.
	I was like, anyways, I swear to you, that's absolutely true.
	By the way, did you go to Lynchburg Airport?
	Yeah, I did, but then I had to go to another one, whichever the closest one is.
	Yeah, you fly to Charlottesville, I think, or Charlotte.
	But the best part about the airport, and somebody warned me about this, and I only bring it up because I think you'll find it hilarious, they go, the guy, you know the people that, like, they process your ticket?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Somebody's like, just so you know, everybody does everything.
	So the woman processed my ticket, I went through security, and they put on an orange vest and were putting the bags in the plane.
	They literally, like, they are every job in the airport because it's so small.
	How many hat comedians do you want to bet?
	It's the most adorable, hilarious thing in the world.
	How many hat comedians do you want to bet go in there and go, hey, what's up with your airport?
	It's the people doing all the same stuff.
	But it was the most adorable thing I've ever seen.
	Yeah, I had to go somewhere else.
	I don't know if you saw that.
	They're like these two elderly people and they were just like lugging your backside.
	Did you ever see the flex they call it?
	It's like a fake snowboard hill up there in Lynchburg.
	No, I didn't get to see that.
	That was like their big attraction because I was there and it was Liberty University was the first time they did a stand-up show.
	I did a show in stand-up, and it was actually at, like, they were like, well, let's do the lounge, because it wasn't going to be as big.
	And then the lounge was actually, people were jumping, and it wasn't like, I mean, I have some name recognition, not huge, and within certain circles, and I have a niche following.
	It was, like, fire capacity packed.
	That's great.
	I offended them wildly.
	I had some bits.
	That's the problem.
	As a conservative Christian, I don't hold myself out as an example at all.
	I'm not a Christian comedian at all.
	I'm a comedian who happens to be a Christian and conservative.
	I'd say about 75% of my set is about silly, childish things, and then 30% is political.
	I would just say that it would be...
	I would agree that if you and I were doing two shows, one in New York and one in...
	They'd be different.
	Somewhere else, who's braver for doing the material that they always do will change.
	I think.
	Except for the Islam thing.
	Not that.
	That never changes.
	That might never change.
	And listen, I'll tell you what.
	I ruined...
	It took...
	And thank you because now I'm on the list.
	So that's great.
	Yeah.
	I will tell you this.
	It took away something from me that I love.
	I mean, I literally can't...
	No, that's fucked up.
	I can't go on a stage in general anymore at all.
	I mean, I can't...
	I literally...
	And it sounds like paranoia.
	Literally, if you go to Care, if you Google Stephen Crowder Islam, you will see some stuff.
	It's pretty serious.
	I can imagine.
	To the point where I was on stage and I just...
	Because you can't see out.
	And I was so paranoid and so scared.
	I just couldn't enjoy it anymore.
	I was like, listen, we've got to have security here.
	Especially when we had one guy who just- This is like people who do- I just saw a documentary on this.
	The only reason I bring it up is people who do abortion clinics and they murder- Oh, come on.
	That's such single digit numbers.
	Literally, you can count in one hand the amount of times that's ever- Absolutely.
	No, no, I'm not equating the two in terms of severity, but I'm just saying people kill in the name of extreme versions of all religions are not really...
	Well, it's not the same, and that's the whole bit that I do.
	See, I find that very interesting.
	Well, here's why.
	I don't say, yeah, all Christians are imperfect, right?
	But I think if you talk about what's the most extreme version of Christianity is Jesus.
	If everyone acted like Jesus, he probably wouldn't be doing this podcast.
	He'd probably feel a little awkward because he's such a nice guy, although he did drink a lot.
	Muhammad did beat, rape women, behead, call for the deaths of Christians and Jews.
	He did those things himself.
	So it's not about comparing Christians and Muslims, but comparing Jesus versus Muhammad, and it's a very different jumping off point.
	That's a tough one.
	That's definitely a tough one to get.
	It was Muhammad's last words.
	We're calling for the death of...
	I'm going to send you my Islam video, and you may like it, you may not.
	It sounds great.
	It has a few million plays, and more...
	It sounds great, but if you're Muslim and listening, I hate it so much.
	Yes, exactly.
	Well, what's funny is that's a perfect example, right?
	So TalkIslam takes it and rebuts it.
	Like, yeah, is it true?
	Yeah, but of course, the Three Stooges routine with Muhammad beating his little wife, that's not accurate.
	So TalkIslam, the world's biggest Islamic non-profit, and you don't get this with Christians because they can separate it and they might be like, don't go see this movie.
	TalkIslam, one of the biggest, I don't know, some kind of non-profit, I don't even know who this guy is, rebuts it.
	And so to the point I have to go on this show and be like, okay, point by point why he's inaccurate.
	As a Canadian, I don't want to have to do that.
	But I've been sucked into it because all of a sudden people are treating me like a scholar on Islam for dressing up in an outfit that they claim to be racist.
	I guess so.
	You know, brown face, unibrow, turban.
	I did it.
	I don't get it.
	What am I going to do?
	Apologize for it?
	Anyways, it's changed my life.
	The funniest thing, one of the funniest things I ever saw about that.
	I've ever seen the Onion thing called No One Murdered Because of This Image.
	I don't know.
	No one was murdered.
	And it came out right after Charlie Hebdo.
	And I thought it was a really, I think that's exactly what, it's another comedic take on the same line of what you were trying to do with your bit as well.
	Right.
	Well, okay.
	I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
	No, I agree with you.
	Unless you're Muslim and then I hate you.
	Yes, exactly.
	And I defend it to the death.
	Yes, exactly.
	Not the death.
	I take away the death part.
	Well, that's the thing with Norm.
	My point is, you know, taking that in context, people walking out because it was George Bush comment, you know, people have been like, I can't believe you're a Christian, you know, that, and then you getting praised by Roseanne for what you did, he was going, oh, no, no, no, no, no.
	Setting that straight.
	And I still agree with that.
	I still think he's right about that.
	I think a lot of people, though, took it as an opportunity to take potshots at the joke structure or the joke writing.
	And honestly, for me, I don't care what names you call me, but as a comedian, it's like, our jokes are our babies.
	So it was like, you could go after me, but don't go after my jokes, if that makes sense.
	Yeah.
	Or after my joke writing.
	Yes.
	I go after it in the idea, and in a sense, I was forced to go after it because of the pushback from the other way, where people were saying, you know, Norm Macdonald...
	The article was from...
	I don't know if it was Huffo or it was Washington Post, one of those.
	It was like, Norm Macdonald certainly provided some interest with his nonsensical...
	And actually, regardless...
	Well, here's the thing, though...
	He's the most helpful judge there.
	He is sort of helpful, although I will say...
	Obviously, you're seeing a very highly edited version.
	He was pretty...
	I don't know if I'm speaking out of school but he was pretty incomprehensible for a lot of people.
	That's practiced.
	When you don't understand what Norm is saying, Norm doesn't want you to understand what he's saying.
	I disagreed with his criticism of the joke structure in terms of the J.K. Rowling part.
	I get why he said he didn't think it was brave.
	And I could totally sympathize with his point of view.
	I totally get where he's coming from.
	I didn't think it was incomprehensible.
	I think he was perfectly clear and his opinion is perfectly valid.
	The only part I disagreed with, honestly, was the part where he said J.K. Rowling was a Christian.
	He didn't get why he used Harry Potter in the comparison.
	Specifically that book.
	I understand where you're coming from.
	That's why, if you notice the piece, I didn't talk about that part as much.
	I think the reason he felt the need to do that is because otherwise...
	I'm sorry to keep interrupting.
	I apologize.
	I know that's super annoying.
	If you read that article, and again, you've already acknowledged that perhaps there were some quotes and all that kind of stuff.
	Well, the gay thing, I was wrong if you're not gay.
	Like I said, I fully own that.
	It attacked me as a comedian, and my point was, you could disagree with my joke, or you could even disagree with whether it was brave or not, but I think I'm a funny comedian.
	I think it came across on the clip, and that wasn't as much.
	I think you're a funny comedian.
	I think your material is better than that joke.
	And again, you know, that's what I've always...
	It's not just due to one joke.
	There was a set there.
	Yeah, and that's one thing I realized afterward.
	I was like, okay.
	And you know what?
	That's why, honestly, I hated the...
	When I was in the Just for Laughs at the Homegrown Festival.
	Yeah.
	And that was...
	And people, like, it's literally one person from each province you get in.
	And I was competing.
	At this point, I was young.
	I was really young.
	And the guy who won it was a guy who had been doing it for 15 years and already had his own basically CTV specials, like an HBO special.
	And I've just always thought that putting comedians in a competition was antithetical to what comedy is.
	I get the exposure.
	Absolutely.
	I get the exposure part.
	Absolutely.
	But it's like...
	And actually, my friend actually went pretty far two seasons ago, Deanne Smith.
	You may or may not have rendered a little lesbian from Montreal, bowl cut.
	And funnily enough, you know, she's short lesbian.
	And she actually helped me when I was really depressed in my early 20s.
	And I used to have her open up for me at shows.
	And this is even when I would develop a following and people knew I was kind of more right wing.
	Why are you having this little lesbian open up for you who's like clearly very liberal?
	And I just thought she was funny.
	Right.
	But...
	I understand because I've been attacked a lot that way, especially since I don't do stand-up much anymore because of the way my life's changed.
	Same with that Nicole Arbor, whatever you're talking about.
	Are you happier, by the way?
	I feel like everybody I know who stopped doing stand-up is happier.
	I haven't stopped doing stand-up, actually.
	I just don't do the clubs and the colleges.
	I'll still do it maybe a couple times a month, but I get to go.
	So you're halfway happier?
	I'll tell you what.
	For me, the anxiety actually came from Like I said, being on stage, not feeling – it was always – I was always anxious, not feeling safe, feeling very exposed, especially after – when you're in the front page of Huffington Post.
	And at this point, I was with Fox News when I was 21 years old.
	I was raised in Canada where it didn't exist.
	So I was brought in because I was just – I mean, listen, you're going to talk about risky.
	It was such an anomaly, this 21-year-old kid who is doing bits about Islam and doing bits about whoever it was, Clintons or making fun of liberals and hippies.
	No one else was doing it.
	That's how I got pulled into Fox News.
	So I didn't really expect to do what I did.
	It just sort of happened.
	And they didn't really know what they wanted to do with me.
	At that point, CNN came calling and MSNBC. They just knew they didn't want anyone else to have me.
	So I was there for four and a half years with an exclusive contract.
	And I would just kind of appear on panels.
	I did some sub-hosting.
	Like for Red Eye, I filled in.
	Or I would do co-hosting panels.
	It was never really me.
	And stand-up became...
	Completely unfun, because I always had to answer for it as a conservative, and I was really mad that leftists didn't.
	And I knew I was never going to get booked ever on Comedy Central or on any of that stuff at that point, because unlike a Nick DiPaolo, or a good example is Gary Sinise, Clint Eastwood, John Voight, who were In the closet, conservatives.
	And then when you have screw you money, you can come out.
	That's kind of Nick DiPaolo.
	If you look at his earliest, he was...
	You could kind of tell, but he wasn't open about it.
	I mean, they've had a tough crowd.
	He was already pretty conservative.
	Oh, now we're getting some buzz coming in.
	He was more inherently conservative, but he wasn't sort of claiming...
	He usually fought the liberal...
	He was always the...
	Anybody who was fighting for the liberal point of view, he was usually on the opposite side.
	Well, back then you could, though, and that's my point.
	Back then you could more...
	I mean, if you look at Joe Rogan.
	Yeah, I think that speaks again to how polarized society, how we are.
	But I think that's much more so with leftists.
	Again, because I would have liberals open up.
	Fox News, people can condemn it all they want.
	Fox News has far more conservatives than MSNBC has.
	I mean, you know, you have right away in any show, you're constantly having leftists on.
	Am I saying it's fair and balanced?
	No.
	But they actually make an effort to bring people on with a different point of view.
	So what I will say this is, for me, there was so much more with stand-up media.
	That gave me so much anxiety that it was just really cloudy-headed.
	I wasn't going up and just doing stand-up anymore.
	I'm going, well, hold on.
	Is this going to get back?
	Am I going to have to answer for this?
	And I don't know how to explain it.
	And it sort of happened with this show, actually, at one point recently.
	We had a producer.
	We had this fallout.
	And this is whether you believe in God or not.
	I do believe in good and evil.
	And I do believe probably one of the most powerful things...
	What evil can do is take something you love and use it against you and turn it into something you hate.
	And that's what happened with me in stand-up for a while.
	I hated it so much that I thought I'm never going to do it again.
	And then when I left to say, you know what, I'm just going to do my own thing.
	I'm not going to be involved with traditional media.
	I'm not going to have to answer for anyone but myself.
	It changed again.
	I'm not doing it a ton again because of the safety issues a couple times a month and private shows.
	But...
	Yeah, I will say for me, so for me it was a lot happier when I did less stand-up.
	It was more so that then, okay, I was done with sort of the traditional media outlets.
	I was really unhappy in New York doing that.
	I mean, to give you an idea, I was in New York.
	I don't do drugs.
	I don't want to say that's a self-phrase, but I'm a comedian in New York City.
	What am I going to do?
	I think there's a lot more alcohol than drugs, but there's some drug use.
	Yeah, well, and I don't really drink that much either.
	So I'm in New York, and I was with Fox News, and I would go in and be like, okay, I do a panel a few times a week.
	And, you know, at that point, I wasn't really doing a lot of stand-up in New York, because I was still really pretty anxious.
	I mean, I had a guy come up and try and hit me in the subway, just because he recognized me.
	Like, literally tried to just pit me.
	So I did jiu-jitsu, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which you probably know Joe Rogan.
	I did it like six, I did it six, seven times a week.
	Twice a day.
	Two-hour classes.
	Because I just had to fill my time with something that was not work-related.
	And stand-up was just sort of, to clarify, sorry, I'm kind of working through something on my own, but to clarify, it was all sort of put in that pile of stuff that I had to do at that point.
	And when I piecemealed and said, you know what, I don't have to do this, stand-up sort of came back like an old friend, like, oh, wow, I actually really liked this at one point.
	Yeah, for me, it's what, you know, everything is in service of stand-up.
	That's...
	There's nothing better.
	It doesn't matter if drugs or not.
	That's the best drug, is being on stage and doing...
	I think of Artie Lang's line, have you tried heroin?
	Right.
	It's not even close.
	I started as an actor, you know, I was 12.
	So the kids show Arthur, I don't know if you know that cartoon on PBS. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I was the brain.
	That's how I started.
	So I missed a lot of school.
	I was doing acting and I thought I could see it happening with the unions in Quebec.
	I was like, this isn't going to be around a long time.
	So I started writing stand-up at 14.
	There you go.
	But I wasn't able to get into the bars until I kind of ficked it at 17.
	It's tough.
	I've seen younger comics and it's tough because they're trying to relate to an audience.
	And you can either try to speak to their level, which you're not because you're 14 and you have different issues than they do.
	Or you can be like, this is what it's like to be 14 years old and hope that they're like, oh, this is interesting.
	I've never heard that.
	Right.
	Well, when you're 17 and you go up and you're ending your set on the N-word talking about- That's tough.
	That's really tough.
	And that's how I, you know, that was how it happened.
	But for me, it was more so acting and stand-up was kind of, it was very, yours is very joke, jokey.
	You write jokes.
	Mine was very performance-based as far as, you know, kind of characters and situations.
	And so contextually, it's more important.
	A joke is relatively short.
	You know, like Mitch Hedberg, you're almost never going to take that guy out of context.
	Right.
	Right.
	Although I do think, it depends how you quote it.
	Like, if you write out my joke sometimes and you miss, the emphasis is really important.
	That's true.
	Well, you know, it's funny.
	We have a writer, and then I'll let you go to give you an idea.
	You know, I'm on the conservative side, but there are no other comedians, right?
	You would acknowledge it.
	It's very rare.
	Conservative comics?
	Yeah, comics would tend to be, yeah, far to the right.
	I would say it's the minority, yes.
	Yeah, it's very rare.
	So on the site, you know, I have to bring on, because I can't write six, seven posts a day, but every single post I look through and I read, and I'm punching it up, just like a sitcom, you know, like Ray Romano.
	Absolutely.
	So, Courtney is one of our writers who was brilliant, was talking about, did you notice they can't deport transgenders now?
	Oh, no, I didn't know that.
	Because they're like, well, they're going to beat the shit out of you in Mexico.
	If we send you back, they're going to kill you.
	So it's a violation of human rights.
	Oh, that's bad, yeah.
	So you have a lot of people now just like, I mean, I'm a woman, you know, and they just put on a dress.
	Who are not actually transgender.
	Yeah.
	So we talked about, I mean, I assume, I assume, I'm like, it can't be this.
	What, does Mexico just have an abnormally high population of transgender?
	All of the men are transgender.
	Right, all of you are transgender.
	Every what?
	Right.
	And she wrote something.
	So she didn't come from a comedy background, but she's brilliant.
	She's very funny.
	And so she wrote talking about sending them back, and one of the lines was, and maybe avoid wearing that tight white dress.
	She said, not because of the hairy man legs, but because it's after Labor Day.
	I said, okay.
	I said, I see where you're going with this.
	What's the funny part?
	Not Labor Day.
	It's hairy man legs.
	What's funnier than hairy man legs?
	I said, okay, so Courtney, watch how I change this.
	We avoid wearing that white dress.
	Not because it's after Labor Day, but the penis.
	And she was like, oh, that's so much better.
	I don't know.
	I actually like her for some better.
	Really?
	You think the Labor Day?
	The misdirect is that the problem is all of the stuff you think would be a problem, but the main problem is just that it's white after Labor Day.
	Oh, I should explain context.
	She was talking about Labor Day before that in the previous phrase.
	I like the misdirect, though, because in my mind, the obvious thing is to go hairy legs, penis, all that stuff.
	So I'm less likely to see the white dress thing coming, that it's white after Labor Day.
	Right.
	Yeah, well, I guess it doesn't work, I guess, unless you explain the context.
	But again, that's sort of just shortening it, you know.
	You'll see some people on Twitter now.
	My concern is really this.
	A kid, you know, I think back when I was 17 starting, and just, you know, funnily enough, my first set, I did really well.
	And then my second set, I bombed because I got overconfident.
	So my first set, you know, I literally had about 40 minutes of material that I had written from 14, and I whittled it down to five.
	And I just, I did really well.
	And I was like, oh man, I'm great at this.
	And I did my second set.
	Everybody.
	So, I think back though, I can't imagine a kid today, let's even say a kid 21, 20, younger guy getting up there, eating it, crossing that line of something that could be seen as too racist or something, and someone has a smartphone.
	I just see careers getting destroyed and comedy getting watered down.
	I can't see any of I mean, at The Cellar, for example, we strictly police the rooms just for that reason.
	If you are caught recording the show in any way, we have to kick you out because we have to protect the comedians and their right to experiment and work on new stuff without that fear.
	Right.
	And I've seen famous comics walk out of shows lately because they see a phone come out.
	Kevin Hart got into a lot of trouble on Twitter and I think it was undeserved because he was really policing the no cell phone at his show rule.
	So they were kicking like 150 people out, which is not a lot when you consider that he had 50,000 people there.
	So like that number is not a big number when you take it in context.
	But he had these big signs that people were tweeting these big signs that say, oh, this is the only picture I can show you from the show because he's banned cell phones.
	And it's like, that's what he has to do.
	Yeah, I can imagine.
	Well, I remember when it first started was MySpace.
	That was actually when I won a MySpace.
	It was So You Think You're Funny on MySpace.
	Oh my god.
	And it's funny.
	That was actually how I got my Just for Laughs thing.
	Which, by the way, people think it's easier if you're in Montreal.
	It's actually way harder when you're in Montreal.
	Well, there's two festivals.
	There's the French-speaking and the English-speaking.
	So I assume you're on the English-speaking one.
	Yes.
	But it's harder if you're from, you know, because you're in your own town and it's like, they only take like two from Montreal.
	It's actually easier if you're from New York or LA. So it was really hard, just kind of cutthroat.
	And I remember then, so MySpace, I did it, I created through like HTML, getting stand-up up on my profile.
	And you may remember it was Kelly McKeegan was the one who used to book the Just for Laughs.
	You may remember her, Brent Chiesse was on the TV side.
	Okay.
	And this guy was on my – so I entered the MySpace comedy competition, which I won.
	And you know what the prize was?
	To fly myself to Tampa to open for Bruce Bruce.
	And I said like, "Well, no." At this point, I was kind of, you know, touring.
	I said, I'm not going to do that.
	But then they were like, well, okay, we'll get a rain check next time you're in the same town.
	My family lives in Plano.
	And Bruce Bruce came to the, you know, the Addison Improv.
	You've probably performed there.
	Okay, cool.
	And it was Bruce Bruce, black boy with an eye, I think two eyes, and me.
	And I tell you what, it was some of the best shows I've ever done, but it was horrible material.
	It was just the entire, you know, 15 minutes was just about being white, you know, in a black audience.
	I opened for Paul Mooney for two and a half years.
	Really?
	Oh, yeah.
	Did you have to do a lot of, oh, I'm so white jokes?
	No, actually, that's where I got a lot of my stuff that's about race and that kind of stuff was Paul used to love when I went really hard against race because the audience would hate it.
	Because they're like, you can't tell us about that.
	And you'd hear Paul cackling in the back.
	Oh, well, then it doesn't matter if you bomb as long as he likes it.
	I figured out how to turn that into a knot.
	He was basically teaching me how to do that stuff.
	I learned a lot from him.
	I figured out how to convert that into crushing.
	By the time a few months of opening for him, because I opened for him basically every other week at Caroline's for two and a half years, within a month or two I was just crushing.
	But There was always that once in a while.
	It was always scary because sometimes that audience was not inclined to like you.
	No, they were...
	No.
	And I found out what's the Bruce Bruce black boy thing.
	And he...
	I don't know if Bruce Bruce comes out like it's a boxing thing.
	Oh, yeah.
	So he comes out and it's slow and he walks down with his entourage and I was the emcee.
	And so that was the most awkward thing the first night I ever had to do in my life was sit there and the lights are going, you know, it's boom, all this hip-hop playing.
	And he's just walking out slowly and I'm just kind of standing on stage for about a minute and a half.
	But I remember I won that on MySpace and it's funny because this was the first time where smartphones kind of came in.
	There was a guy on MySpace, his name, I even remember his name, I'll use it, Steve Eccles.
	And I watched it.
	It was my set.
	It wasn't like some bits.
	It was my set.
	And I went to his website and he had even taken the template from my website.
	For his website, I had like a gray brick wall to the point where you could see it had been like clearly copy pasted because it was just the same version of mine but fuzzier.
	And it was the first time I ever had direct thievery and I called him on it and he totally just apologized.
	He's like, I'm sorry.
	That's usually what happens.
	Most of these people aren't looking for a fight.
	Like, I've had a lot of bits stolen, and I'm like, hey, dude, that's my bit.
	And most of the time, they're like, my bad.
	And they stop doing it.
	Well, sometimes you get bits that are similar, where you don't even realize it.
	Of course, parallel thinking.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, I almost removed a bit, because Joe Rogan does one so similar, but I've been doing it since 08.
	You can even go back to a video about vegans and milk.
	And my whole bit, like, it was about PETA. I did a video called PETA in the KKK. And my bit was, you know, vegans say we're the only species who drink another species of milk.
	I said, okay.
	Light bulbs.
	Fruit roll-ups.
	We're the only species who do a lot of things.
	Should we ditch the space program?
	Stop using fire because dolphins haven't gotten around to it?
	And I go down the list of things that we do.
	And Joe Rogan's was just talking about like, you know what also?
	We're the only people to do.
	Call people on the phone and talk to them about how much we love milk.
	Something like that.
	So it's very similar.
	And I was like, you know what?
	I'm not going to stop doing it.
	It's tough.
	I mean, those are such gray areas of like, yeah, you have to figure, is that bit, like sometimes you come up with a bit because it's easy because as soon as somebody hurts the topic.
	Right.
	But yeah, once in a while you get the situation where like, I like the way I wrote the joke.
	The joke is obviously I wrote it.
	I know I wrote it.
	Yeah.
	It's hard.
	Yeah.
	And I also felt like I have 20 minutes on veganism and the gluten-free thing, comparing gluten-free to AIDS. Oh, my God.
	I have a bunch of stuff on veganism.
	I was vegan for five months, so I have a bunch of jokes about why I'm not.
	Why were you vegan?
	It was for health reasons.
	I mean, the studies show that definitely all of my numbers got better.
	I lost a lot of weight.
	All my cholesterol went down.
	So it was purely a diet.
	Well, my cholesterol went up.
	Really?
	Yep.
	Actually, here, and I'll let you go.
	To give you an idea, this is where I was convinced.
	So when I was doing like a lot of green smoothies, my cholesterol was 219, my LDL was 140, HDL was, yeah, so my triglycerides were 94.
	And my testosterone was at about like 298 to the point where I was like, that's testosterone replacement therapy.
	Once I started eating more meat and fewer refined carbs, like I'm not paleo or anything, the total went to 178.
	LDL dropped from 140 to 115.
	Triglycerides from 94 to 59.
	And the testosterone went to 700.
	And it was like, so I did like the actual blood work.
	I wasn't like, I'm just going to go vegan and see how I feel.
	Oh, no, me too.
	Yeah.
	You know what it was for me?
	Being vegan meant I couldn't eat pizza.
	I couldn't eat ice cream.
	It knocked out all the bad comedy club foods.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	So it worked.
	It worked for me.
	It wasn't me.
	That was the only reason I did it.
	And the seller actually has some pretty good food.
	Delicious.
	And vegan.
	Like hummus is very good.
	This is true.
	All right.
	Harrison, I think we've worked it out.
	I think we agree on some.
	We'll still disagree on some others.
	Yeah.
	Oh, I'm glad to have you on.
	Now, where's the best place again for people to find you so I don't butcher it?
	HarrisonGreenbaum.com is my website and at Harrison Comedy is my Twitter.
	Now, are you still in Last Comic Standing?
	No, I am not.
	I'm sorry.
	That was the worst way to possibly end it.
	It's totally cool.
	You've lost!
	No, I didn't know.
	She was brave now!
	Yes, she was brave now.
	Well, good.
	Listen, the good thing is they can't take it.
	That's one thing with stand-up.
	I'll leave on this.
	My dad and I always talk about doing Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
	It's like if someone's a cyclist, if someone does figure skating, if someone plays hockey, my dad played hockey, you play your sport and it leaves.
	The one thing with grappling is you always take it with you.
	If something happens where you need to use it, it's like, well, this is my body.
	It's the same thing with stand-up.
	People can take away your job.
	They can take away your website, kind of.
	They can't take away your ability to write a joke.
	So regardless of whether you're on that show, I really do think you're funny and I hope to have you back.
	Thank you, man.
	I appreciate you having me on the program.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	Harrison Greenbaum, he is not gay, and I apologize for getting that wrong.
	Come back next week.
	Hey, subscribe by clicking my face or watch one of these videos next to me, because...

▲