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June 6, 2015 - Louder with Crowder
34:13
Transgender vs. Lesbian Live Debate || Louder With Crowder
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I'm not going to step into the victimization element of it.
The problem that we have is he is not biologically, he is not scientifically a woman.
He is a woman only on the basis of his mental illness, on the basis of his disease.
We have right now on the line J.J. Marie Gafreda, author of Left Hander in London, Transgender Male to Female, and then Cynthia Yaki.
You can find her at a conservativelesbian.com who lines up on the other side of the issue, open out of the closet lesbian, who lines up more conservative.
We want to have this debate, discussion.
Cynthia, are you on the line with us now?
I am at last on the line.
Thank you.
Okay, good.
I'm glad to have you.
And J.J., you are on the line as well.
Correct.
Okay, great.
So, we were talking about, firstly, JJ, you mentioned your story, how you came out, you felt that you were living something that wasn't true to yourself, you didn't feel authentic.
Now, how long, JJ, have you transitioned into being a female?
It's been almost eight years now.
Eight years.
Okay, so a long while.
Now, have you gone through the full surgery?
No, I don't have the money.
Okay, if you did, though, you would.
If I sell a million books, I'll do it.
But if you did have the money, you will do it.
Okay.
Now, Cynthia, you're an out-in-the-open lesbian.
I'm not blowing the lid off anything here.
And I found this very interesting in interviewing Milo.
A lot of people in the gay community, particularly lesbians, have a strong opposition to the current transgender movement.
Why is that?
Lesbians are expected to be...
They want to be absolutely submissive to transgenders, and they want to be in a female community.
They're not women.
And the ones who transition to men also are not women but refuse to leave.
So we don't get an all-lesbian space, we don't get an all-woman space, and the fact is that your sex is determined at conception.
There's no such thing as a gender construct.
You can't change it.
You can adopt characteristics, but you can't change your sex.
It's an invasion.
You're supposed to be submitted, I guess, to transgender men to women.
Are you saying more so that you think it's insensitive for, I guess, a man to transition to a woman and then claim to have suffered from the same discrimination or disadvantages as a lesbian like yourself?
Oh, I don't think that's the issue at all.
I don't even want to go there.
The problem is they're not women.
So get out of women's spaces.
And J.J., what do you say to that?
Well, I am a woman, so I'm different than other women in one way or another.
But I'm a woman.
I'm treated as a woman.
And I don't...
You know, do anything actively against lesbians.
I'm the president of the Indian Rainbow Chamber of Commerce.
So, you know, we have LGBTs and any other of the letters that they have.
So, you know, for me, I represent the whole community when I'm...
We're not in that capacity, so I don't...
But J.J., to be fair here, and Fundip can join in, what if there seems to be a strong contingency in the gay-lesbian community who sort of think that the transgender community doesn't share a lot in common and is coattailing on it?
If you look at the numbers, it's not across the board.
There are a lot of people out there like Cynthia.
Well...
It's not coattailing.
It's hijacking and dominating and stealing the whole thing.
Hey, hang on.
It's J.J.'s turn.
Well, I would say, you know, first of all, we're not, and I can speak for myself, you know, I know a lot of transgender people, but, you know, I don't consider that we're hijacking anything.
There are similarities with other, you know, lesbian and gays and bisexuals and what have you, because there's discrimination.
You know, when Indiana passed a religious freedom law, that was targeted against all of us.
You know, it wasn't Well, JJ, let's try and stay away from that, because that has nothing to do with discrimination.
It has to do with religious freedom.
And they didn't deny, I think Cynthia would understand that, too.
They didn't deny anyone because they were gay.
They didn't want to be involved in a specific gay wedding.
Well, in Indiana, the opinion of many was it was intended for discrimination, but that wasn't held by everyone.
But regardless, when there's an issue like that, The way I look at it is, in many cases, we're in it together.
Well, let me ask this because you mentioned that.
Cynthia, do you see the religious freedom laws as anti-gay laws there in Indiana?
Or did you, for example, that bakery, the pizzeria that said, well, we just don't want to cater a gay wedding.
They served gay people.
Did you find that to be anti-gay bigotry?
Oh, first of all, even lesbians would not...
Have a pizza parlor cater their wedding.
I understand that for sure.
Now, me, on the other hand...
But no, yes, yes, the religious...
For one thing, in Indiana, they were already totally free to discriminate.
Yes, that's true.
That was...
There was absolutely no need for that.
But because for them to need such a law, then gays would have to have some kind of protection for employment and public accommodations and housing, which they are not provided in Indiana.
Right.
I don't want to get off in the weeds.
It was redundant, but it is a mask for religious discrimination, yes.
Okay.
Well, yeah, I just, I didn't want to get off in the weeds.
I just wanted to see your opinions and see where, you know, you both line up on some issues and not on the other issues.
But let me, you know, JJ, you said something that you are a woman, right?
And that you're treated somewhat differently.
Well, listen, what do you say to someone like Cynthia, who has a vagina?
And you don't.
And Cynthia says, it's not fair to say that you're a woman the same way that I'm a woman.
It's insensitive.
For someone like you, J. Day, who's obviously very sensitive and seems to be a very caring person, can you see how that might cause women from birth who've been raised as women, who've faced what they see, you know, what many women, I'm not agreeing with, you know, they've seen, I guess, patriarchal privilege.
It's sort of insensitive for you to swap that after a few years and then claim to be a part of their class?
Well, I mean, first of all, I'm not claiming to be a part of anything.
I'm just saying I'm a woman.
I can identify with a lot of things that other women have.
I've been a consultant for 30 years, and now that I am a woman, being treated very differently and being treated like I don't know anything, It's a very big wake-up call, and I knew...
But do you really think, JJ... I'm just going to be honest.
Do you really think, Cynthia...
Let me ask Cynthia, because I know my opinion.
Cynthia, do you really think that people are treating JJ the same way they treat someone like you as a woman?
Because I know I would react differently to someone who I would see as a man than I would to just say my wife or you.
I'm not...
I'm not going to step into the victimization element of it.
The problem that we have is he is not biologically, he is not scientifically a woman.
He is a woman only on the basis of his mental illness, on the basis of his delusion.
Now, wait a second, though.
Do you believe in souls?
Yes.
Don't you think that a soul might end up in the wrong body?
No.
You don't think that's possible?
No.
No, I think that there is something that would illuminate it.
Jyotish astrology and possibly Western astrology.
Well, let's not get off on the soul stuff.
No, it's not.
No, this is where you asked me.
Well, no, Fundip did, Cynthia, and he's going to the Star Trek thing.
He doesn't even believe in God.
So I don't want to go there and get us so far off from the weeds.
Let's let J.J. and Cynthia were making some good points, and then Fundip wants to go into Star Trek or the new Star Wars, God forbid, midichlorian BS. No, no midichlorians.
About how biologically...
I mean, you just said something, Cynthia, and this is going to upset a lot of people, but you're bold.
You said mental illness.
Now, Milo Yiannopoulos, who is gay, he agrees.
And what I find fascinating, not having a dog in this fight, not being gay or transgender, JJ, it seems that a lot of gay people have said what you have said, that they feel the movement is being hijacked, and they're not a fan of it.
Well, first of all, that's the first time I've been told that I have a mental illness, so...
This is news to me.
I went through a lot of therapy when I was getting ready to transition, and my doctor and my therapist, none of them ever said I had a mental illness.
I never felt that I did.
First of all, if somebody doesn't think I'm a woman, they're entitled to their opinion.
But what about the fact that you have a penis?
You were born a male, so you say someone thinks.
But you know that because you asked me the question, and I like to educate people so I don't mind sharing that, but...
Well, no, no, no, JJ, I ask that because, listen, I'm just speaking honestly, and I appreciate you coming on the show.
This isn't meant to discriminate.
I've watched your videos.
If I were to see you, I would think you were a man.
I mean, that's just...
And I think most people would.
I don't think they're reacting to you in the same way they do to any other woman on the street.
And I don't say that to be mean.
I say that so that maybe you're not aware that that's how people probably see you, JJ. Well, I mean, however they see me, they do.
Right.
You know, I expect to be...
To be treated like a woman, I'm addressed with female pronouns, and I don't think it's anything to fight for or debate.
If I'm a woman, that doesn't take away anything from anyone that's a lesbian.
Well, Cynthia argues that it does, Cynthia.
It absolutely does.
It took away the Michigan Women's Music Festival.
And it takes away an all-woman space.
You are not a woman, and all we...
All we're going to be in is an R2, R0 fight.
But I'm sorry, biology and facts are on my side.
You are not a woman.
You can change your name.
I'll call you a new name, but I will not change the pronouns by which I refer to you, and I think it should be against the law for you to be able to change legal records, to change your sex on your legal records.
It is absolutely an outrage.
This should not be legal, and it's a mental illness.
It's called gender dysphoria, and it should not be kowtowed to.
The inmates do not get to run the asylum.
Well, J.J., Cynthia's passionate, but she's a very sweet lady.
I'm not getting that.
No, I'm not picking up on that either.
I don't get to be in my community because I can't get into an all-lesbian, all-female space.
This is an outrage.
And it is trans people who are taking this away from me.
And they prey on the lesbian community the most.
My trans friends date lesbians.
You bet I'm passionate about that.
Well, let me...
Yeah, and I don't ask you...
JJ, obviously, Cynthia's passion.
We're trying to moderate this here, and Cynthia, I appreciate it.
But, JJ, I think there is a point, a takeaway here.
Because you talk about people who should treat you as a woman and may be insensitive.
Can you understand that maybe there are people like Cynthia, obviously, who won't be as aggressive, though I appreciate her passion, who think it's insensitive and feel less safe in an all-female space if someone...
Well, I mean, there are women that look more like men than I do.
It's not a contest.
I mean, you know, you do the best you can with what you have.
I mean, are we saying that if I looked better, if I was prettier, or if I could go through 10 hours of facial feminization surgery like Jenner did, then I would be more accepted in the community.
I mean, it's not a contest.
I don't know about where you are, Cynthia, but here in Indy, I mean, I respect other women and I'm not at war with anyone.
I work for the lesbians as well as anybody else that's in our community, and I'm not taking anything away from anyone.
But what about an all-female space?
You know, Cynthia has faced...
She never claims victim status, but I will agree, and fund up and I have said this, I believe that lesbians are discriminated by some bigots in this country, and she's faced that, and I think it's important to someone like Cynthia to have what they see as an all-female space.
And when they see someone as a man, regardless of how you identify yourself, that's how they see you, that's the perception.
Can you maybe be sensitive to the idea that there are women who aren't bigots, who aren't going to be comfortable with no longer having an all-female space?
I just don't understand it.
It's like, I don't see how it would be any different.
And, I mean, then, you know, if you want to get into nitpicking, I mean, there are people that are intersex that are, you know, that have components of both or, you know, there are a lot of different types of conditions.
I mean, do we have to have a checklist to say, this person is female enough because...
Okay, well, we're going to go to break, but I want Cynthia to hold that thought and actually address that.
And Cynthia, we appreciate your passion.
JJ, thank you.
We're going to keep you both on, and I would like to hear Cynthia's addressing of that point.
Cynthia, can you stay on?
Yes, of course.
Okay, good.
Well, listen, it's just one big happy family here.
Fundip, myself, JJ, Cynthia.
I don't think any of us shared the same opinion on a whole lot.
But that's what Lauder with Crowder is, bringing people together.
Days go by.
Now, JJ, we appreciate you coming back.
Cynthia and I spoke during the break.
Cynthia is sweet.
Let's keep this so everyone is talking.
And, JJ, we appreciate you coming back.
I know it was a rough first segment, but I think we're making some headway.
Fun Dip, careful.
I would have just run away in fear.
I'm not able to deal with confrontation well.
Yeah, well, listen, you have to understand, too, Cynthia is an out-of-the-closet lesbian who's an open conservative.
So I've seen her at conservative conferences.
The only reason we became friends was because she was furious with me, because we were having a discussion.
Everybody starts off that way!
The first time I met you, I could not stand you!
Well, I don't...
Cynthia, are you there?
I'm here, and I remember that.
We were yelling at each other at midnight in the lobby of a hotel in Virginia at BlogCon, and somehow we turned both instantly at the same time on a dime and just loved I told her that I loved her and that, you know, listen, the most important thing for Christians is to love, and even if we disagreed on certain issues, that, you know, listen, and the same applies to J.J. Love is important for agnostics as well.
We're not opposed to love.
You're like a Scientologist.
You invent your Star Trek religion and God stuff.
So, J.J., I'm sorry.
J.J., Cynthia was right about the asylum, but I don't even think she was referring just to you.
It's Fundip and myself.
We're the ones in the insane asylum here.
I'm more insane than anybody.
Okay.
Let's let Cynthia.
So, J.J., you made a point before we went to break, and I wanted Cynthia to be able to address it.
Cynthia, how do you respond to J.J.? Oh, dear God, you're going to have to summarize the thing you want me to respond to.
Okay, I'm sorry.
JJ, what was the last...
That's exactly what I wanted to say right now.
The last point JJ was making was about...
JJ, was it about representing lesbians in the group that you work with?
I'm sorry.
Yeah, I mean, I work with the whole LGBT community.
You know, to me, I don't remember being at war with anyone, including especially, you know, members of the LGBT community.
And, you know, as...
As a transgender person, this is news to me that we have this much power.
There aren't that many transgender people, so I don't see us having a tremendous amount of political clout unless we're working with other people, because there just aren't that many.
Okay, that's a good point.
Cynthia, go ahead.
The Convention of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force was overtaken by a trans...
And they had to stop business until the trans people were done having their song and dance.
And God help anybody who objected to it.
God help the lesbians who said, but you killed the Michigan Women's Music Festival.
And you're erasing women.
You're redefining women.
Why is it that Christians are worried about the non-redefining of marriage and the actual redefining away from biology, away from fact, Of sex, of your sex.
There is no such thing as a gender construct.
And it is really a totalitarian...
People are being softened up for totalitarianism with the idea that gender is something that is a construct and that is imposed.
It's the new Soviet man all over again.
And it's absolutely the worst form of gender stereotypes, which Women of my generation fought hard to get rid of.
Well, I think, Cynthia, that's an interesting point, because I will say this, in my opinion.
My deal is the language police, JJ. And you mentioned you want to be referred to as masculine pronouns, and people now say that it's hate speech if you don't.
So feminine.
Sorry, feminine pronouns.
See, there's a great example.
I wasn't even trying to offend, and it's just, I hear your voice, JJ. I have your picture up in front of me, and it's just, that's the way it comes out.
I wasn't even trying to be offensive.
I wasn't offensive.
Okay, but there's a movement now to make it hate speech, to ban this as hate speech.
So do you believe at all that if someone says, hey, I don't hate you, but I'm not going to use feminine pronouns, what do you think about that?
Is that something that needs to change?
Is it hateful, or is it just someone like Cynthia?
Well, for me, I would say this.
People refer to me with feminine pronouns, and they...
They call me by my name, and the issue, well, I'll just say this.
There's a difference between people that call me the wrong pronoun by accident, whether they knew me before or whether they hear my voice or whatever, however it is that they call me that, and people that are trying to be nasty to me.
Sure.
Because, you know, to me, You know, if I'm female...
Context matters in how it's based.
Yeah, and I've had people do it.
I've had people that have intentionally called me the wrong name in letters in order to let me know that they don't like it, that I'm female.
And, you know, if somebody doesn't like it, that's fine, but, you know, I don't need to earn it.
And, you know, I work with other women, and, you know, I consider myself...
Involved in a lot of the issues that other women have.
And, you know, for me, I'm not...
But what about that there are a lot of women...
I'm sorry, I need a turn here.
This is absolute gaslighting.
You can change your name legally, fine.
I will call a trans person a new name.
But I will not say that they are a sex because it is a lie.
It is honoring a delusion.
And I'm sorry, I don't have to lie for you.
And I'm not going to honor your lie.
I'm not going to honor your delusion.
You are not a woman.
So what does that mean?
And legally you should not ever be able to say so.
People are absolutely out of their minds if they say that this is a trans right to have this delusion.
And the fact is that the way trans have put this over is by having psychotic episodes when they are not allowed to absolutely dominate and dictate how everyone is going to behave and to force people to accept their gaslighting.
The psychological term for the way that trans people operate is gaslighting.
And what causes trans people to commit suicide is the large number of people who say, I'm sorry, no, I am going to believe my eyes and not your lies.
You are gaslighting and you are a man.
Well, that's an interesting point.
I want to touch on that point, Cynthia.
But being a woman is not superficial characteristics.
It's not a dress.
It's not makeup.
Hang on, though.
Hang on, though.
Cynthia, hang on one second.
Cynthia, hang on, Cynthia.
Cynthia.
Don't you think that it is steeped in the personality and in the being inside?
We're going to derail this with your soul stuff.
There's a legitimate conversation we had biologically here and a personal experience.
It's not always about biology.
But JJ is talking about JJ's personal experience here and Cynthia is addressing it.
So here's my point.
But inside who you are should determine how you are referred to.
No, the interesting point here that was just brought up that's more important, fund it, let me go, is Cynthia brought up a suicide rate.
JJ, I do have those in front of me and it is staggering.
Now, I know you could say it's – make an argument that it's because of social construct.
But gays and lesbians don't have anywhere near the same suicide rate.
It's almost 40% for transgenders.
It's even higher for ones who go through the surgery who would be more perceived as women.
How do you address that and say, hey, this doesn't share a lot of the same congruencies as, you know, like something, listen, to be honest, that I suffer from.
I have depression, but I acknowledge it and I don't think it's something to be lauded.
They're the very same rates and statistics.
Isn't that alarming?
Well, it is very alarming and...
And, you know, I'll admit that for me, I've had, you know, very dark moments because of being transgender.
You know, in my experience, it comes from two things.
One of them is not being who you are.
And then when you do act to You know, become the person that you need to be.
Whatever that means.
And it's not just a one-shot-fits-all.
But the other part of that is the difficulty you go through in society.
You know, like if somebody says...
But that wouldn't be reflected across the board for both pre-op and post-op.
And it wouldn't be so much higher than gays or lesbians.
I mean, I know Cynthia.
And listen, Cynthia obviously can come across as a little bit feisty.
But I promise you, she's a sweet gal.
And Cynthia, you know that.
I'm not feeling that, but that's She was that way with me, too.
But Cynthia has faced the same kind of discrimination.
Listen, Cynthia is very clearly a lesbian.
If you see Cynthia, you would assume so.
You see Cynthia with her partner.
So she's faced that same discrimination.
But the suicide rate is nowhere near as high.
Why is there such a wide gap there?
Well, I don't know why there are so many.
I do know that it's a very big problem.
There's not as much help.
When you have people attack, like, you know, in this case today, if people are attacking me because they're saying, we're arguing with you because we're saying that you're not what you think you are, and you're taking away from the rest of us by existing...
No, they're not, though.
They're saying we don't have to accept...
I didn't say no such thing.
This is a fact.
You are not a woman.
You will never be a woman.
No surgery, no drug, no clothes...
No happy feeling of femininity is going to make you a woman.
This is a fact, and what causes suicide among trans people is to go farther and farther down that road to be enabled and then to find out, no, they didn't actually get to change sex.
Their body is still going to be insisting that they were born.
They were trying to externalize what would make them fulfilled and happy, and then it doesn't happen.
So it's the left and progressives who are enabling this gender construct baloney and who are enabling this delusion that surgery is going to make you a different sex, which is absolutely false.
And then, of course, it doesn't happen.
How does that shatter people?
And, of course, there is no reason for people to go along with the transgender gaslighting.
You are not...
You are asking people to accept something that is That's the point right there.
Cynthia, one second.
Fun Dip wants to jump in before he does.
I think we've touched on an issue.
JJ, you're saying people are discriminating against what you want to be.
I think what Cynthia is saying and what I would agree with on her side is she's saying, no, we don't have to accept you redefining something.
Fun Dip, go.
But don't you think that the personality, how the person feels matters?
I mean, when I think about what it would be like to have You're the very fiber of your being, you know, different from your body.
That breaks my heart.
I think it breaks a lot of people's hearts, but it also breaks people's hearts if they believe something to not be true in other ways.
I mean, JJ, what about this, you know, there are a lot of people...
The problem is that once you start chopping yourself up and the fact that they have to add drugs in order to complete this, it means that they're...
Their mental delusion is just not enough.
Well, I think there's an irony here, Cynthia.
That tells you that biology really has something to do with this.
Hold on, hold on, Fundip.
Hold on, Fundip.
And hold on, Cynthia.
Hold on, Cynthia.
Hold on, Fundip.
I do think there's an irony here, JJ. Could you agree, for example, Caitlyn Jenner now, okay?
We constantly fight against the idea of this social construct of beauty and this unrealistic standard of beauty.
And we tell women they shouldn't have to get plastic surgery and they shouldn't do drugs to change who they are.
But then it's supposed to be lauded and given praise when you do it.
Isn't that a little bit of an irony?
Well, I would say this.
A big breakthrough for me was when I stopped trying to figure out what happened and what caused it and just said, you know, I just need to do whatever I need to do.
And then that was...
That was how I went forward, and I didn't get a new card in the mail saying that I was female.
I thought you were going to say a new Costco card, because those are fantastic.
And I will tell you this, I have not experienced what Cynthia is talking about.
But she has, JJ, so can you maybe say you're insensitive to people like Cynthia?
You say she's insensitive, but you're both maybe a little insensitive to each other.
Well, I'm not insensitive.
I just haven't seen it.
And, you know, when I interact with people, I expect to be treated, you know, with respect and people calling me the correct name, what have you.
And I, you know, to me, it's not a very interesting debate on my side to say, you know, I'm not going to accept you as a woman.
I'm like, well, okay, but, you know, that's not the way That I like to be treated, and that's not what I'm experiencing.
Maybe we're more progressive down here in Indiana, but...
Well, listen, JJ, I will tell you this, JJ. That wouldn't really be the recommendation for this show.
I don't care if you run around in a dress.
I don't care if you feel like a pretty, pretty princess.
Run around in a dress for all you, and to your heart's content, but use the men's room.
Play men's sports.
You cannot change your driver's license.
You cannot change your birth certificate.
You are a man.
Have you been in a men's room?
Some of them are not fit for anyone.
Pardon?
Pardon?
Some of them are not fit for anyone.
And let me ask you this.
That's true.
Seriously, now I'm supposed to give everything up because the bedroom isn't clean?
Cynthia, I think that was a joke.
I think that was a joke.
The bathroom here that Fundip has to clean is like a Turkish prison.
Yes.
Now, I wrote a song about that.
Dan, did you listen to that?
I didn't get a chance to hear the song yet.
Oh, I listened to the one.
Yeah, I listened to the one where you play the piano that you have to go.
I'll tell you what, though.
Listen, JJ, and then we have to go to a break here.
I don't know if we can...
Can we continue this into the next segment, or it's going to be short anyway?
It'll be a short segment, but we've got some commercials here.
Okay.
Hey, do you mind staying through the next segment, both of you, and then we'll wrap it up and you can give your closing arguments?
Can you both do that?
Yes.
Thank you, Steve.
Great.
Thank you so much.
We'll be right back.
Ladder with Crowder.
Appreciate it.
Great.
We come back with lesbian and transgender activist and the ultimate stripper song Poison by Alice Cooper plays.
So before we go, JJ, Cynthia, thank you so much for coming back.
JJ, you just made the point about using a woman's restroom and you made your argument as to why you feel that way.
Well, let me kind of give that to Cynthia.
Before I do, I mean, it's a place where women feel sexually vulnerable.
It's a place where sexual assault often occurs.
And at a certain point, my only argument here is you're discriminating against somebody.
And in this case, you're discriminating against the vast majority of women who feel unsafe, who feel uncomfortable, in order to accommodate less than 1% of the population with transgender people.
So either way, you're discriminating on some side.
I'm not discriminating against anybody.
I pee in the bathroom.
Well, women feel unsafe with it.
And so you're being insensitive to them.
No, they don't feel unsafe with me.
I've been going to the ladies for eight years.
Yes, they do.
JJ, statistically, they do.
It can't all be personal.
We have to look at some stats.
Well, I'm just telling you, They wouldn't tell you, JJ. In the ladies' room.
They wouldn't tell you.
My wife wouldn't say anything, and I guarantee she would feel very uncomfortable.
Cynthia, you can address the point.
Trans people need to use the...
We have to make it a law that trans people have to use the facilities, the sports, the prisons.
Any sex-segregated facility, it has to match their birth sex.
Now, what about on the flip side, though?
Say you've got somebody who has transitioned female to male coming in to the ladies' room with a bald head and strong arms.
That's not going to be something...
By the way, I've never seen a female to male transgender ever who looked even remotely large and intimidating.
You wouldn't necessarily know.
Buck, the guy who hates me, the most famous trans male porn.
Yeah, you would know.
You would know.
It's a different bone structure.
Cynthia, but what do you say to that?
I...
I would actually prefer that all trans people use the men's room.
If I were getting to make the law, then they can use the men's room.
But that's not rationalized.
No, because of testosterone going both ways.
Male to female has had the advantage of a lifetime of testosterone.
It changes the bone structure, and it's an enormous advantage.
And also, it's just an expectation to dominate that they have, and an absolute unwillingness to take no for an answer.
I mean, absolute.
Sounds like you, though, too.
But for female to male, once they start taking testosterone, they get that, too.
So my preference would be that all trans people use the men's room.
But I'm willing to compromise that they use the facilities of their birth sex.
So you want a separate drinking fountain, too?
Oh, shut up, Fun Dip.
Don't try and equate a lesbian conservative with racism.
That's ridiculous.
What do you say to that, J.J.? Well, I think there is a lot of similarity with racism.
People saying, if you are this, then you can't do that.
It's, um...
You know, for me, if I went to the men's room, my life would be in danger.
The only way, J.J., could have a similarity with racism is if gender is biologically determined like race.
Are you saying that gender is biologically determined just like race?
I don't know.
It may be.
I'm not sure what the reason is.
I'm just saying you go with what you get.
And, um...
And I don't know, I'm just having a hard time with the anger and the outrage.
You know, my doing something I don't think took away from anyone else.
It just made me a lot better.
Well, I think we're having a disconnect here, JJ, where you're only talking about personal experiences, which, granted, are going to be seen through the lens of your life, and Cynthia's talking about societal ramifications.
But, JJ, we have to let you both go, and we do appreciate you both coming on.
JJ, where can people best find you, firstly?
On Facebook, I have a page, LeftHanderInLondon, people can go and like that.
Jenner has a million likes, I have 170, so you can do that, and then LeftHanderInLondon.com.
And then Cynthia, where can people find you best?
I am most frequently on Twitter.
My handle is at ConservativeLes, and my blog is at ConservativeLesbian.com.
If people would like to help fund me, help me write a book about the attitudes and positions I've just discussed, I'll put up a post later today to take donations for Kindle formatting and editing and so on.
Okay, thank you both of you very much, and we want to have both of you back on soon.
Fun Dip, what?
There's also Left Hander and Levin.
No, no, no, we both got some plugs.
The Earthquake, you've got to check that out too, though.
Okay, great.
Thank you so much, JJ. Thank you.
We appreciate it.
Thank you, Cynthia.
Louder with Crowder.
We will be back after this word from people who keep the lights on and who knows, maybe some people writing these ads are lesbian and or transgender and we're all just one big happy family.
Louder with Crowder.
Stay tuned.
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