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May 30, 2015 - Louder with Crowder
38:44
Milo Yiannopoulos Schools Crowder On #GamerGate || Louder With Crowder
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Yes, this interview is awesome, but what's even more awesome if you click this box is the extended 45-minute uncensored uncut portion of the interview that never ran on terrestrial radio or on this channel.
It's over at Milo's channel.
Enjoy.
Okay, you said you were a homo, so now I have to ask.
Is the Mariah Carey, is that the gay team jersey for English people like Celine is for the gay people in Quebec?
Yeah, I mean, it's just signaling, really, you know?
I say I like her.
I have no idea if I really do.
Who knows?
I'm glad to have our next guest on.
He's actually writing a book on something many of you may not know about.
Some of you do.
Online, you probably know.
On terrestrial radio, some of you don't know.
But this is the guy with whom you should speak.
Milo Yiannopoulos.
What's the title for the book, Milo?
Well, the working title is just Gamergate, which is the name of the controversy, but it's dependent on my publishers.
They may want to give it a sexed-up title.
At the moment, it's just Gamergate.
Okay, now I'm detecting an accent.
Polish?
Yes, yes.
No, actually from the Ukraine.
No, I'm from London.
Okay, there you go.
Dialing in from my spare bedroom in London.
Oh, very nice.
Well, I didn't know you guys get internet out there.
So, Milo, I'm sorry.
Didn't we invent it along with everything else?
I mean, come on, along with the language you're speaking?
Give me a break.
Here's my problem, though, and we've had Paul Joseph Watson on about this.
Yes.
He's from the north.
I mean, he is from somewhere with no internet.
They barely have running water up there.
I'm from civilization down south.
It's fine here.
So northern England is kind of like Quebec is to Canada?
Is that what you're saying?
I'm not from...
Well, I mean, Quebec is full of French people, so nothing could be worse than that.
But no, I think the north of England is probably more like Detroit, maybe, or I don't know, somewhere really barren and hopeless and just sort of...
Oh, God.
Somewhere that's just in managed decline.
Okay.
Well, this is a great start for a home station in Detroit.
Well, okay.
So, Milo, anyways, all I was going to say is my problem is you do speak English properly.
You just don't pronounce your R's.
And if you invented the language, find someone who can teach you the R's.
Milo, Gamergate, a lot of people don't really know what this is or they get the wrong focus.
So I don't want to put words in your mouth.
But this is something that I've been following online.
And I see it as an incredible opportunity to fight back against...
Honestly, we have the language police, where I was raised in Quebec, the actual police, language, police de langue, anyways.
Now, I'm sorry, I'm offending you with the French.
Please don't hit the shut-off button.
No, no, I know about this.
They have the Académie Française in Paris, which attempts to regulate the French language.
Why bother?
Right.
Yes.
And a lot of similarities now with the politically correct sort of, I guess you'd say, pseudo-language police in the United States.
I see a lot of that with Gamergate, a really strong rejection, but I know it's about ethics and journalism.
Again, I don't want to put words in your mouth.
So you go educate the root.
Whatever in my mouth you want.
No, I mean, the interesting thing about the Gamergate controversy, the reason I think it's significant, the reason I think it matters to people who don't play video games and who don't care about video games, is that the gamers have been the first fandom, the first community, not only to fight back against the language police, the social justice warriors, the feminists, the censors, the trendy metropolitan liberal bloggers on the East and West Coast, they've not only been the first community to fight back, they've been the first community to win.
They are winning those battles, the Bloggers concerned have had to give sort of grudging admissions of their conflicts of interest.
The feminists now are sort of running with their tails between their legs, admitting that maybe they got it wrong, and oh, they're sorry for being so decisive.
Well, you're not wrong.
Well, it depends on the feminists.
Some of them, of course, used to be men.
But, you know, the issue is...
That not only did gamers take them on, but gamers won.
And they provided a really interesting template for other fandoms and for other sorts of people to fight back.
And basically what it teaches us is what I think we've known all along, which is if you don't give in, if you don't budge, if you don't give in, if you don't say, oh, God, we're sorry.
We did this poster with a sexy woman on it.
It's really offended everybody.
If you stand your ground...
Your consumers, your customers will reward you for it.
And the potential benefits are not just financial but also reputational.
The only thing you can do wrong in the face of the sort of feminism, social justice warrior incursion, the only thing you can do wrong is give in.
And gamers have demonstrated this with sort of fortitude and thoroughness and extraordinary meticulous attention to detail in their campaigns and all the rest of it, like we've never seen before.
And it's been a remarkable thing to watch.
Video games is an $87 billion industry, bigger than Hollywood.
It is going to be a very significant part of the way that people communicate, the way people enjoy themselves, the way they relate to other human beings.
It's a very significant and very important.
It's a very important art form.
It's a very important cultural movement and people of my children's generation.
will communicate with one another and will come to find out about the world in large part through gaming of some kind, video games of some kind, and to sort of nip in the bud this poisonous ideology which is so thoroughly and completely and effectively infected literature, comic books, and to sort of nip in the bud this poisonous ideology which is so thoroughly and completely and effectively infected literature, comic books, sci-fi, fantasy, to stand up to
It's based on tired, discredited 70s identity politics and ridiculous ideology that fill out a fashion in academia decades ago.
What you're saying is nonsense.
You are calling people names who don't deserve to be called names.
You're dragging people's names through the mud.
There is no basis for any of the claims that you're making.
Get out of our hobby.
For the first time, it's starting to work and I think gamers deserve some credit for that and as somebody who's interested in the culture wars and is interested in battlegrounds of this type, the Gamergate controversy has been by far the most interesting one that I've encountered in the last eight, ten years.
You know, it's fascinating you talk about that because you have two different sort of factions – People saying, well, don't bring it to the feminist issue.
This is about ethics and journalism.
It's sort of a gamer version of, you know, journalist, which I know you work with.
You've done some work with Breitbart.
Andrew Breitbart was a big part in revealing it.
So I know that the two kind of intersect, but I think people miss that bigger point.
And I think it's because a lot of gamers aren't inherently conservative like I am.
And I think conservatives maybe have a disconnect there.
They're starting off from a platform of life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.
And I think gamers are experiencing the wrath of sort of this politically correct monster that many of them don't even realize they've helped create.
Well, what's interesting about gamers is gaming as a medium, I think, is a naturally libertarian medium.
It's mostly about personal agency and the consequences of one's own actions.
It's about self-sufficiency.
And shooting hookers.
And, of course, shooting hookers, which we all love to do, on the screen.
Unless you're Charlie Sheen.
Continue.
Well, you know, I think it's an inherently libertarian medium.
And the war opening up for me is not so much between left and right as between authoritarians and libertarians.
I very much see what I see happening is gamers who are instinctively left wing, they think Wait, hold on one second.
Jeez, I didn't realize.
We have to go to a break.
Hold on.
Let's keep the lights on, and then I'll bring you right back.
Milo of Gamergate fame.
Loud Earth Crowder.
Stay tuned.
Back with Milo, writing a title, writing a book, sorry, on Gamergate.
Huge scandal, actually, in one of the biggest industries, not only in the United States, in the world.
So it's important to talk about Milo.
I had to cut you off.
The floor is yours, sir.
Continue.
Yeah, sure.
What I was saying is that the biggest gap for me is not between the left and the right in this war.
I think gamers think of themselves as a reflexively left wing and I think they're right to.
Certainly all the surveys they do show that they're left wing on most social and many economic issues.
The gap for me, the interesting gap, and I think it's one that's opening up throughout society, is between authoritarianism and libertarianism.
I think it's between people who want to dictate how others live and people who simply want to be left alone.
Now, gamers very firmly fall into that second box of people who want to be left alone.
That's why, in many cases, they're playing games in the first place.
So they've reacted very strongly against people who want to tell them what's acceptable and what's not in their games.
And I don't think it really matters where those points of view come from.
What's interesting about the social justice warriors like Anita Sarkeesian is just how much they have in common with the old religious right.
Almost indistinguishable, for example, from Jack Thompson, who said that video games are very violent.
Anita Sarkeesian says they're sexist.
And these critics use the same tactics.
They demand the same things.
They use the same language.
And to all intents and purposes, they are indistinguishable from one another.
Social justice warriors and feminists, of course, hate this being pointed out to them.
But it is nonetheless true.
And so I think the most important distinction is really between people who just want to be left alone to enjoy their hobby, consumers and fans of an entertainment medium.
And, you know, these broken middle class white train wrecks who have decided that the world is broken and they're the only people who can fix it.
Well, let me back it up a little bit because you talk about social justice warriors and sort of, I guess, I know Paul Joseph Watson uses the term third wave feminism.
I use the term neo-feminism.
Let's back it up for people who maybe don't know the story.
How are they encroaching, I guess, on how are they being authoritarian with the gaming industry?
A lot of people may not even necessarily know how it started or what the catalyst was because it was pretty specific, right?
Sure.
So understand where this has all come from.
You have to understand first that gaming grew very quickly and as a result you had a trade press, a press that was really just catering to the industry.
It suddenly found itself almost overnight becoming a consumer press and these sites that had very low quality journalism and very poor ethical standards and were uniformly very left wing and they signed up to that third wave feminist sort of authoritarian microaggression safe space man slamming kind of nonsense and they Almost uniformly signed up to that.
Suddenly found themselves the gaming press establishment, and it happened almost overnight.
Now these people, almost without exception, have bought in entirely to the Anita Sarkeesian view of the world, which is that video games can make you sexist in the real world.
That's the issue here.
The question that needs to be answered that nobody has satisfactorily given evidence for is this claim.
Video games can somehow make you worse than the real world.
Now the press, which had done a really good job of defending video games against charges of violence, did a really bad job against charges of sexism.
And it was sort of accepted that...
Video games could make you sexist.
Now, the problem is that there's no proof for that.
There's no evidence.
There's no scientific study that shows that.
And what feminists did, as they've done so many times before, is embarked on this campaign of misdirection, where they started to gin up and then...
And make a fuss about supposed threats of, you know, rape threats, death threats, you name it.
This is a classic strategy from the feminist playbook.
And what it does is it shifts the sympathy and attention onto the abuse claims and sort of draws the eye away from asking whether any of the claims that those feminists are making in their critiques are actually true or not.
So this sort of waved through almost without criticism of attention.
I mean this is a microcosm of a problem at large, particularly in the United States.
I don't want to speak for the UK. You can speak more effectively to that.
But have you been staying up to date on Mattress Girl?
Yes, the liar.
I read the complaint and it's horrifying.
But this is a classic thing that feminists do.
They claim abuse, they claim harassment, they claim persecution, they claim anything it takes to draw attention away from the original set of claims they were making.
Because what they've learned is that by doing that, they no longer have to really justify the original points of view.
People accept them as given because they think, well, if you're being persecuted and abused and threatened because of this, there must be something in it.
The reality is there's nothing in it.
Jackie at UVA wasn't raped.
Mattress Girl wasn't raped.
The Gamergate critics have no validity whatsoever in any of the arguments that they possibly have.
Well, they pivoted with Mattress Girl.
We just wrote about that at the website where basically the burden of proof is entirely on the man to prove he's innocent in these sort of, I guess, mock college trials.
Like, okay, are we going to go forward with these charges?
It was brought to some campus police.
I'm not exactly quite clear.
It's all written up in the reports that we have on the website.
And They still said, listen, there's nothing here.
This guy probably isn't guilty.
The parents are suing the school.
Graduation was ruined.
And even the liberals who are conceding now saying, well, the left, I say, saying, okay, maybe this was false.
But that's not the point.
It's still a good thing because it brought awareness to a really big problem.
We don't have the numbers in the problem, mind you, but the really big problem of campus rape.
I mean, honestly, one in four women, you would believe that just people, I mean, anyone with a penis, you and I are just going out and just raping women by the throngs on campus to hear it from the media.
Well, you know, these things don't even survive a common sense test.
They particularly don't survive any kind of critical or academic inquiry.
So, you know, you look at people like Kristina of Summers at the American Enterprise Institute who very effectively and completely demolished most of these claims, whether it's the gender wage gap, which does not exist, whether it's the rape crisis of rape culture on campus, which does not exist.
You know, this stuff is posited and then immediately you'll notice in every case that There's a misdirection applied to it.
It does exist if you count all drunken intercourse as rape.
So they try to make it exist.
That's the issue now.
So, I mean, you know, I've written quite extensively about this sort of stuff.
I mean, I'm a homo, so I don't really have a...
I didn't know if you were just English or what.
No, no, no.
Both English and gay.
That's why I sound so posh.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I've written a lot about it because I see what's happening to men and I see how unfair it is.
This is a hostile environment for men.
It's driving men, for example, out of the institution of marriage because they realize it's no longer a good cost-benefit for them.
It's driving them out of society and into porn and video games and all sorts of other things.
I call it the sexodus in a big two-part piece I wrote last year.
You know, I see a lot of this happening.
And it's very sad.
And what you notice is the architecture of these events where you can always tell the cons.
First of all, because the initial claims are just too good to be true.
Like Sabrina Erdely from Rolling Stone went, by her own admission, so-called rape shopping.
She went looking for the most outrageous and extraordinary rape she could find.
Something that would really, as I think the Daily Caller put it, a rape that would pop.
And of course what happened is she found a liar.
And a liar who would tell her whatever she wanted.
And then of course the story became about how the university tried to cover it up and everybody was being so mean to her.
And the original fact of the rape took quite a while to come out.
It took a while to realize that that was true.
Similarly with Mattress Girl, you know, this ridiculous art stunt, this attention seeking, turning herself into a liberal hero on the basis of a lie, was done to distract us from finding out whether or not the original claims were true at all.
Now, the reason this is relevant to Gamergate is that, yes, it is primarily, firstly and foremostly, about press ethics because all of this stuff is played out in an uncritical press that takes the side of the feminists against reason, against fact, against common sense, and against their own audiences.
The sorts of people who are upset about this stuff don't play video games.
They don't talk about video games.
They don't care about video games.
The sorts of people who talk about this stuff are interested in winning culture wars.
And what the journalists are now beginning to realise is that their audiences have almost entirely abandoned them.
And that's where the journalistic ethics come in.
I think that these two issues are inextricably linked because the driving motivation behind ethical failures in video games journalism is social justice ideology.
That's why they do it, because they believe, like Rolling Stone believed, that the narrative, as you suggested, the narrative is more important than the fact.
Yes, exactly.
And the one thing that I do hope that gamers who may not – who may have been entirely closed off to I guess sort of what they see as libertarian or more right-wing conservative ideology, whatever you want to call it.
We've talked about this on the show.
You know, Larry King, we just pulled this from an interview from a podcast where he said, you know, I don't think the cable is as effective as it used to be.
The media can no longer elect presidents.
And he said it condemning media as though they should have that ability.
What I hope people see is that the same Republicans and the conservatives or whatever you call them in the UK, you guys are changing the terminology all the time.
It's like Quebec.
Whatever they want to call them, who they vilified.
These are the same people who've been fighting out against the press for decades saying, hey, listen, there is only one voice, one point of view in the press, and that is the voice of the politically correct authoritarian.
My mouth is going crazy right now.
It's the establishment.
It's the voice of the establishment here in the United States, and we've been fighting against it for a long time, and I hope people are waking up to the fact that it really is an issue.
It's not the boy who cried liberal bias.
Well, I have some good news for you on that front.
I think you're right.
I think for a long time it was possible to ordinary, reasonable, relatively apolitical people to laugh at conservatives when they said, you know, as the great Lady Thatcher says, you know, reality has a well-known conservative bias.
She said the facts of life are conservative.
We know these things to be true.
It was possible to laugh at conservatives for a long time for these things.
Fandoms like Gamergate are discovering just what happens when you start to buy into the authoritarian establishment view.
And what I've seen, whatever your view on various right-wing outlets, whether it's Daily Caller or Breitbart or Fox News or whatever, what I've noticed extraordinarily happening is that You know, there's that thing in the men's rights world, red-pilling.
You know, you sort of take the red pill and suddenly your eyes are open to the realities of the relationships between men and women and how they should both behave and all the rest of it.
I've noticed a similar sort of effect in gamers where they suddenly realise, well, actually, wait.
I think it was yesterday I saw a tweet.
Somebody said, I just watched Fox News and for the first time in my life it's starting to make sense to me.
Right.
You know, and of course, a lot of them have been coming to Breitbart to read my stuff, and I think there's obviously an inevitable bleed into elsewhere in the site, and they're starting to realise, well, these guys are not what I was always told they were.
Now, gamers, of course, are and will remain reflexively left-wing people, I think, as a function of the sorts of person who gets into video games.
I don't think there's very much you can do to change that, but what I think is really interesting, and I think, again, one of the reasons Gamergate's so interesting, so important, is that Gamers have had an open mind about this.
They've combined a sort of ruthless, meticulous thoroughness in the way they've conducted their letter-writing campaigns with an open-mindedness and a sort of Socratic humility about knowledge and about politics that I haven't seen happen anywhere else.
They haven't just thrown themselves into a particular bucket or into a particular tribe, as we all want to do.
And they've gone out and found out for themselves what the facts of life and the facts of the situation are and found liberal media desperately and terribly wanting.
And, you know, I think it's something that we've all known for quite a long time.
I agree with you.
And listen, I don't think there's going to be a mass exodus of gamers to Fox News.
I think conservatives are just as much to blame for not...
Listen, I can tell you this.
We have a pretty young demo at ladderwithcrader.com.
We'd have a decent demo anywhere else.
In the realm of conservative media, we have a demographic that's unheard of.
They might as well be fetuses.
So, or feti.
I don't know at that point what you say.
No, it would be fetuses.
It would be fetuses.
That's what I thought.
I have an Englishman.
We invented the language.
Yes, I know.
I can tell you these things.
Need any other help?
So just so you know, it's not octopi, it's octopuses.
Any others, you just bring them to me.
I got your back.
Right.
But that I before E rule, except after C, is complete bullcrap.
It doesn't apply at all.
It's a terrible rule.
I will say this.
Conservatives are equally to blame.
And it's not that their message, it's not that the principles are wrong, it's the packaging has been really tough.
There's a huge section of this country and I think the world now in a growing way.
I mean I have fans now from Australia who never – Germany.
Canada.
When I lived in Canada, there were far leftists and far leftist separists.
We have to go to a break and we'll bring you right back on.
Milo, your novel, a Greek name, last name of Gamergate after the break.
We are back with Milo before I so rudely cut him off, made a horrible grammatical inaccuracy, and now we've brought him back.
You've got the bleached hair going on it.
It's kind of, I mean, did you go in and say, give me the Slim Shady or the My Chemical Romance 2005?
No, well, no, I don't really know.
Oh, I know who Slim Shady is.
I don't know who My Chemical Romance is.
How dare you?
No, I'm just kidding.
Music for me is either sort of pre-1900 or like Mariah Carey.
That's really all I know.
Okay, you said you were a homo, so now I have to ask.
Is the Mariah Carey, is that the gay team jersey for English people like Celine is for the gay people in Quebec?
Yeah, I mean, it's just signaling, really.
I say I like her.
I have no idea if I really do.
Who knows?
I flew to Berlin to buy her last album because it wasn't available in the UK. It cost me $1,200, $1,500 or something because I wanted to be the first person to have the CD, but I'm pretty sure it's just a status thing.
I don't know.
Is that a joke or did you actually fly to Berlin?
No, I did that.
Yeah, I got corroded up.
Yeah, I really did that.
You must have been furious when you saw that video of when they took off her backup band at the Rockefeller Plaza in New York.
I don't watch things like that because I can...
No, no, no, no.
I will not have her sullied in that way.
Okay.
I will not have her...
All right.
Well, I mean, as a sort of complicated Catholic, it's the closest thing I have to a day or two on Earth.
Okay, all right, that's fair.
Wind it in, honey.
No, as for the hair, well, you know, you guys get Harleys in your 40s.
We, expecting to die earlier, get bleached hair in our 30s, so, you know.
It's just our version of a midlife crisis.
Okay, well, I hate Harleys, and I've gotten a lot of flack for it.
As a matter of fact, that was the least conservative thing Reagan ever did, was put tariffs on Japanese bikes, because in the 80s, the Japanese were making great motorcycles, and Harley...
No, that's pretty cool.
I quite like that.
I'm quite into protectionism.
Really?
Yeah.
I'm not like the other people you have on your show.
I'm like a pro.
Hold on a second.
We've had actual terrorists on the show.
Then we've also had Dean Cain.
We've had Paul just...
You've had Dean Cain?
We had Superman.
I was so excited to discover that he was a Republican because I grew up...
You call it Lois and Clark in America.
We used to call it the new...
In Britain, it's called The New Adventures of Superman.
And I grew up watching this show.
I grew up watching two things.
I grew up watching...
Forgive me for this.
I grew up watching Star Trek Voyager.
Just because that's what was on.
No, no, no.
You're missing it.
I'm a terrible homosexual.
I'm such a failure as a gay man.
I grew up watching Star Trek.
I'm sorry.
And the other thing I watched was Lois and Clark.
And I found out that he was a sound Republican.
I was so happy.
Well, you are so fortunate that Fun Dip, our producer, is not on right now because he's Trekkie.
Also, we won't let him live it down.
He also said that he would sleep with a transsexual man on air, a libertarian who's just a – and he loves all things British.
He would do it just for fun.
You'd have to ask him.
We'll have you back on and you can have this.
Was that a male to female or a female to male?
Well, he claims it's no longer a male if it's male to female.
Do you know about ceilings?
You know like there's a glass ceiling that women can't ascend beyond a certain level in work.
It's called the glass ceiling.
Is there a prosthetic penis ceiling?
Is that where we're going?
No, it's called The Cotton Ceiling, and it describes the inherent transphobia that all cisgendered people have against transsexuals.
It basically is a transgender campaigner's way of saying, if you don't want to have sex with me, you're transphobic.
And it's called The Cotton Ceiling, supposedly because nobody gets past the panties.
Remember, this is dedicated to rest, really.
Careful now.
Not a particularly pleasant thing, but it's my favorite kind of ceiling.
As an English homo, as you put it.
I can't put it that way.
You did.
You're worried about panty, but homo is fine?
I started it.
I had a guy who actually was writing.
He's an intern, and he sent me something about homosexual marriage.
I said, just say gay marriage.
You're going to walk into a firefight you don't want.
But then you use the word homo out and out, and I guess it's one of those things you can...
No, no, I'm fine with it.
In fact, if I wasn't gay, I would be a huge homophobe, so it's really fine.
Well, let me ask you this, though.
Where do most gay people in super progressive UK line up?
Like, people like you on the transgenderism.
I mean, that's a huge push recently.
That's a very recent push.
Yes.
What's happened with the transgender thing is...
Okay, so I'll tell you what my position has been, and I'll tell you where I'm being encouraged to go on this.
So my position...
So far has been that it is a horrible psychiatric disorder that affects people to be better treated with therapy and drugs rather than surgery.
Everyone who has surgery seems to regret it afterwards or the suicide rates don't improve.
Well, they don't improve.
Some studies say they get worse after the surgery.
We're getting to the stage now where we've been doing it for long enough that we know that almost everybody that has the surgery starts to have doubts about it.
And if you look at the behavior of some transsexual campaigners and look at the other things they present with when they show up at the doctors, it very often comes as part of a cluster of disorders, including narcissistic personality disorder and bipolar disorder.
It looks very much like another one of those personality or identity disorders that ought to be treated with therapy and drugs.
We don't cut off the arms of people who wake up one day and say, this arm doesn't belong to me, so we shouldn't warp reality to conform to delusion.
We should instead try to help that person reconcile their body with their mind.
That's been my position so far.
And as a result, I got really irritated and upset with, again, with the media who decided to present what is a medical argument in which the jury is still very much out as the next civil rights struggle.
And they did this for a number of reasons.
They did this because by associating it with gays and lesbians, it provides a ready-made pathway as to what we should do about it.
Obviously they should be given this, obviously they should be given that.
The trouble with transgenderism is actually it has nothing in common with gays and lesbians whatsoever.
It has nothing in common.
And the trans lobby needs us to...
Needs to keep it as a disease.
Otherwise, there's no justification for state funding for surgery.
So it's a very complex and very difficult position for them to be in a very horrible disorder.
Where I'm encouraged to move on this is that, in fact, it is possible to be born with the wrong disease.
That there are plenty of very high-functioning and perfectly happy people who have this condition.
And the interesting thing about it, the thing that obviously appeals to me, it's not the basis on which to make a decision, but obviously something that appeals to me as a...
As a right-wing polemicist, is that if you accept, as the left insists that we now do, that you can be born with the wrong gendered brain, that blows out of the water gender as a social construct.
And gender as a social construct has been the central linchpin of the majority of left-wing sexual thinking for the last 40 years.
If you throw out the idea that gender is a social construct, you throw out the idea that all gender roles are just performative and learned behavior, and you accept gender That somebody can be born with the wrong brain.
A man can be born with a woman's brain.
That upsets the apple cart for the left more than I can really explain to you in the confines of this program.
Because what it does, it suggests that all of the wars they've been fighting, all of the sexism stuff they've been talking about, all of the sort of, don't tell me I can't behave like X because I'm a woman, is rubbish.
What was the head movement with your impression?
Is that how you think of all...
No, I was doing my obnoxious feminist thing.
It was like Mariah Carey, kind of.
No, it's like, oh, hell no.
Don't be telling me.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Whatever.
That's my obnoxious head movement.
What it does is suggest that everything they've been arguing for the last 30 years is total hokum.
So the left has got to pick one because you can't hold both of these positions simultaneously.
You cannot say there is such a thing as a female brain and at the same time say that all female behavior is learned and is social and therefore we should stop complaining about women who don't want to be feminine and we should say it's okay for men to be metrosexuals and all the rest of it.
My view is it isn't.
So I'm very tempted by this new position that I'm being encouraged into.
That's a very good point.
I mean that point blows the wage gap out of the water as they go, well, yes, you're right.
It is because women choose different professional positions because they have different priorities.
But that's because of societal construction.
Exactly.
And if it's true, if what they tell us about transsexuals, transgender sufferers, is true, if they tell us that there is a female brain and a male brain and there are – the scary specter of biological determinism raises its head again.
It may be simply unanswerable.
That women choose – make different career choices and therefore willingly earn less money when you average that out across the whole of society, which is what dissident feminists and right-wing critics have been saying for decades.
Well, let me ask you this to be devil's advocate here.
Would you then have to be more open-minded to what is not a hateful conservative view but a view on complementarianism, that inherently a mom can provide something to a family unit – I absolutely believe that.
I've always believed that.
It's why I don't support gay parenting.
I mean, aside from the gigantic volumes of domestic violence in lesbian relationships, they're all kicking the crap out of each other all day long.
Lesbians?
Yes, yes, yes.
Lesbian relationships.
The statistics on lesbian domestic violence are astonishing.
I believe that entirely from my anecdotal experiences at Bass Pro.
Everybody knows this to be true.
Anyone who's ever pretended to enjoy women's football and shown up to a match and seen what they get onto on the pitch.
I mean, anyone who's got a very left-wing friend has to go and pretend to find women's football.
I have to say one thing, though.
One thing.
My wife, gorgeous, tall, blonde.
It's what society determines to be beautiful.
No, I've always said this.
One thing I do find about feminism, and then I'll move on to my point there, is I was talking with my producer about this.
It's going to sound terrible.
But feminists have taken something that knows no discrimination, the male physiology.
My Schwanson is a veritable beauty weather stick.
You can't trick it.
You can't...
Beat this lie detector test.
It doesn't care your race.
It doesn't care your size.
It doesn't care what social class...
There are objective standards for beauty for both sexes, you know?
Well, that's what I'm saying.
The dumpstick doesn't lie.
Well, exactly.
You could be a member of the KKK and if you watch that Monster's Ball scene with...
Gosh, I just forgot her name.
I just forgot her name.
Charlize Theron?
No, no, she's white!
I'm talking about, um, would have played Catwoman.
Oh, Halle Berry.
Halle Berry.
Yeah, that's racist of me to have forgotten her name.
Anyway, I was going to get to the point.
My sister, my wife, her sister and her cousins all played hockey.
You expect women's hockey players are like, well, there's a type.
They're all just like her.
Gorgeous, tall, blonde, feminine, and blue money.
That might be a class thing.
It sounds like it's a sort of elite university sport.
No, it's not.
As a matter of fact, it's not.
I'm speculating.
I don't know.
You're entirely speculating.
You're incorrect.
Well, I guess hockey isn't very big over there.
No, no.
I mean, we just associate it with sort of...
I mean, we don't have any good sports.
I mean, we have soccer, for God's sake.
I mean, you know, we invented a couple of decent things, but no, American national sports, by far the best.
Thank you so much for saying that.
Real football, baseball, basketball, like, I can't get enough of any of them.
Not a soccer fan?
No, God.
Soccer's for gays.
I mean, the matches go on forever.
This is so boring.
The only reason to watch football is to admire the men.
And therefore, it mystifies me that the audience is mostly male.
Because what are they all doing for 90 minutes?
It's so boring.
No, no, no, no.
I can't deal with any of that.
American sports all the way.
We have to have you back.
And we were going to get letters.
We have to have you back and we have to have you debate Fundip because Fundip thinks he's being open-minded in the transsexualism argument.
Right.
Well, we can talk about the cotton ceiling because I'd be quite keen to – well, I want to know which way around he's happy with.
If he's happy with both ways around, that's interesting.
One complicating – It's a factoid, which I will tell you before we get off transgender so that your show isn't cancelled.
The good beauty is no one can fire me.
I know.
Isn't it great?
It's great.
It's wonderful.
Our lives are not so bad, actually.
No, interesting, complicating fact here.
Do you know where the number two, obviously the number one transgender capital of the world is, of course, Thailand.
Do you know where the number two is?
Okay, hold on.
Let me actually take a step.
Take a guess.
And it isn't Canada.
I know you're going to say it's Canada, but it's not Canada.
Okay.
First off, is it the United States?
Are you talking about a country or a city?
A country.
Okay, a country.
Transgender capital.
You know what?
I'm just going to go with...
You haven't got it already.
You're not going to guess.
Well, I'm going to go with Norm Macdonald and Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, where they told him it was the not obvious answer.
So I'm going to go with the complete non-obvious answer, Iran.
Is it Iran?
Yeah, you knew that already.
No, is it actually?
Yes, it is.
No, I swear.
I swear to you.
I am a Christian.
Honestly, I have a Bible right here.
I swear on the good Lord.
I promise you.
I swear to you.
I swear.
I have at least succeeded in establishing that it was an unlikely choice.
Yes, it is.
And the reason is that, of course, with the death penalty, the passive, not to get into too much icky detail, but the passive gay partners have sex changes, so they present as women, and So they don't get murdered, so that they're not strung up and hung from cranes.
Which suggests to you that there can be some quite...
There can be social factors that influence what you would imagine to be quite a big surgical life decision.
So it's a very complex issue, and we don't know everything about it.
We're told by the establishment media that we do know everything about it.
It's a very interesting...
It's a very interesting conversation to have that nobody's really allowed to have in the mainstream media.
I would love to talk to your producer about it because I'd be interested to, as somebody sort of a junkie on the science of this stuff, I'd be interested to hear what he finds attractive or not and in which direction.
Because it's just an endlessly fascinating subject that tells us so much about ourselves and so much about the world around us, so much about human sexuality, yet we're not allowed to have any of those really interesting discussions.
We're not allowed to talk about the science.
We're not allowed to talk about what this might say about human relationships or society or anything else.
Because the left has decided that this, you know, it is a civil rights issue.
That is the science.
That's what you have to do as a result.
And that's the real objection.
If I can, you know, if there's anything, if there's any overarching theme in my work, the gamergate stuff, the transgender stuff, it's my primary objection to authoritarian left is that it is profoundly anti-intellectual.
It is profoundly and determinately purposefully stupid.
It does not permit discussion and debate of the most interesting and important things in human life, the most important philosophy, the most important politics, the most important stuff that defines us and that helps us to relate to the world around us.
It will not have those discussions.
That's what I hate about it.
That's what I think it really robs ordinary people of.
You know, that's what I think is the real objection, aside from any specific stupid argument they make.
It's a very good point.
And it also brings up a point.
I've talked about this a lot on air.
I try and avoid the whole MP2, you know, that kind of bullcrap.
And it's sort of an anti-sensationalist show.
And people said this isn't going to play on radio.
Lo and behold, the people who approached us about syndication wanted to start controlling guests and stuff.
And we said, no, you know, we're just going to run this as a podcast, have a couple stations that carry us, and no one else has any control.
But they love the sensationalist story.
And they were always going, you know, Obama's evil.
Nancy Pelosi's evil.
I said, listen, I don't believe that most people are evil.
I think most people generally probably think they're doing good.
But we've hit a point here, and you just touched on this. .
You're talking about profound stupidity.
I'm getting to the point where I believe there is proactive orchestration and manipulation because when you have Barack Obama get up and he says, you know, women are paid 77 cents on the dollar.
Am I supposed to believe that his advisors don't have Google?
I have to disabuse you of this actually and I think that it's even worse than you think.
My instinct is always to...
To recoil in horror from anything that sounds remotely like a conspiracy theory, which is sort of journalistic instincts I've developed, normally because it is a conspiracy theory.
I think that what you're identifying, you've correctly identified a phenomenon, but I think you're reaching for the most obvious cause, which is collusion, which is what Gamergate supposed about games journalists.
Why did all these articles come out on the same day saying gamers are dead, attacking them?
collusion, although collusion was going on and there was a private list and they were walking in lockstep and there was pressure from one publication to another to remove forum content that did not fit the approved list of discussion topics.
But I think it's worse than that.
When you have a sort of ossified establishment echo chamber, you don't even need collusion.
You don't need people...
We have one minute.
I don't mean to cut you off.
I agree with you.
And that's always what I've said.
I've said it since September on this show, since this show started.
But let me ask you this.
Do you honestly think that Barack Obama doesn't know that's a false stat, the 77 cents in the dollar, the wage gap?
I believe that he knows that it's false.
I believe he says it anyway.
And this is one of many reasons why I really detest having left-wing people in government because they're fundamentally dishonest.
Okay.
But we would agree on that point.
He's not that stupid.
No, I don't think he is.
Yeah.
And I used to just say, I don't think he's evil.
I think he doesn't know better.
I believe that it was because he was in an echo chamber.
I think it's narrative over fact.
Obama says that knowing it's wrong for the same reason that Rolling Stone published the UVA story.
Right.
The ends justify the means, sir.
I had to go Oprah and wrap it up in a cliche.
She loves her soundbites.
She's the most evil woman in the world.
Something for another show.
Tyler Perry is going to write you an angry letter.
And he's worth more than, I think, the entire gaming industry.
Now, where can people best find you, Milo?
Twitter's probably the best place.
I'm Prolix on social media, so you can find me at Nero.
You can always email me, milo.nopolis.net.
I love to hear from people.
And look out for the book in summer.
In the summer.
Wow, you are moving along quickly with that.
Thank you very much, Milo.
We will have to have you back and knock some sense into fun dip.
Thank you so much.
Appreciate it.
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