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April 17, 2015 - Louder with Crowder
30:01
Robb Wolf on FDA Cholesterol Reversal || Louder With Crowder
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Yeah, I think that they thought, well, he's a fat guy.
Clearly, we need to get him a CPAP.
Right.
You know, you can do something.
I know it's strange, but it's true.
I'm just trying to figure out how to, you know, tactfully transition to the next topic.
How the hell do you diamond?
He's a fat bugger over here.
He needs a CPAP.
Just give him three of them.
He'll eat them.
So glad to be back here on Lauder with Crowder.
Lovely guest, friend of mine, friend of the program, though when he was on No One Was Listening.
It's when the show first started.
RobWolf.com, one of the guys who spearheaded the paleo diet movement.
I guess I don't need to say his name because his website is his name.
But Rob Wolf, thanks for being on the show.
Always glad to bring down property values.
Thanks.
Yeah, exactly.
You're literally in a double window screen with Fundip Dan, so I don't think you need to be concerned with that.
Okay, before we go into, I think it'll be interesting to have you talk with Fundip because he's in a diet now and he's making some progress, so I'm sure you can help him.
Rob, you must have just gone bananas when the FDA changed officially their food pyramid chart.
Well, I mean, it's gone through multiple iterations.
Every five years, they have kind of a review, and there's a public review period where people can submit commentary and thoughts about the whole process, but it's really just kind of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Like nothing comes of the scientific input other than the folks on the back end of that story.
So yeah, I mean, it's frustrating, but I think we're seeing a lot of changes happening from a market kind of driven perspective versus a top-down approach.
So I think we'll have this war one, and then they will change the recommendations to reflect something reasonable.
So are you saying that they are incorrect in telling me that six servings of fruit loops is healthier than a sirloin steak and salad?
Well, I mean, incorrect based off of who's the system that's going on right now, then it's a great process.
But if you really want to help people and avert the obesity, type 2 diabetes epidemic that we have in our country and in Western societies, then it's probably not a great recommendation.
How dare you?
How dare you be anti-science?
Okay, well, so it's something we've been talking about for a while, obviously.
And Fundip, I don't want to reveal anything.
You know, obviously, this is your story, but Fundip right now is in the process of losing weight.
So Fundip, why don't you tell Rob what it is that you're doing and what they have you doing right now, your dietitians or whoever you're working with.
Well, the doctor today said I don't have any diabetes, which is good.
My thyroid, now that I'm on meds for that, I am back on track.
But I refuse to take the medicine for my prolactinoma because it makes me angry and cranky.
So they keep saying both angry and cranky.
Angry and frisky is a bad combo.
Yeah, but the basic deal is I need to still set up an MRI, but I have lost.
I was at like 411 and I'm down to 389.5.
I was just weighed probably about an hour and a half ago at the doctor.
So already you've lost a Justin Bieber.
Who else?
The more Biebers you lose, the better.
Yeah, exactly.
But Fundip, you brought in, and this is where I think Rob is really, you know, and Rob and I disagree on some things.
We agree on some things, but the diet they have you doing, you actually uploaded a video.
So they had you eating like lots of carrots, right?
Fruit cups, Fundip?
Well, they didn't specify necessarily the fruit cups, but I'm adding those to kind of replace the cheese puffs and the pizza and stuff.
So I'm like, I got to wean myself slowly to where I'm eating nothing but twigs, berries, and raw meat.
Just as an aside, when I was doing molecular biology research, we used as a standard for quantifying UV release in gel electrophoresis.
So they have a multiplicity of uses, some of these food products.
Oh, very good.
I don't think that's how Fundip was putting them to use.
It was more so the down-the-gullet use.
I have to tell you, though, for folks that do still eat them, eat them with chopsticks because then you don't get the orange fingers.
That's a good idea.
Then you won't fluoresce in the dark.
Only your colon will.
So, Rob, so Fundip, right, is a blank canvas.
He's looking, he's getting healthy.
It's a very large canvas.
Oh, God.
See, this is one of those things where it's like, we've talked about this.
Some people have a hood pass, some people have a fat pass.
Obviously, I can't make the jokes, and then Fundip interjects, and I don't know what's correct to laugh at.
You can laugh at it.
You just can't say it.
Just can't contribute to it.
Yeah.
You just can't contribute to it.
Unless you gain, if you gain another 50 or 60 pounds, you're more than welcome to join the club.
It's like that dentist on Seinfeld.
You anti-dentite bastard.
So, Rob, what would you have?
Firstly, by the way, Fundip, again, I'm not saying this to be insulting at all, but the fact that you don't have cholesterol issues or diabetes, I mean, you're like a, you said you were over 400 pounds, right, Fundip?
Well, not anymore.
I'm 389.5.
But you're a marvel of science, and I think, and no high blood pressure either.
My cat has higher blood pressure than me.
And Rob, we've talked about this.
Fundip drinks like a pot of coffee a day.
And there are a lot of intensive anti-diabetic effects with coffee.
So firstly, can someone answer me that question?
Why doesn't Fundip have diabetes?
You know, it's interesting.
Not everybody who becomes overweight becomes diabetic.
Not everybody that's type 2 diabetic is overweight.
And that's some of the difficulty in pinning this stuff down.
There's a lot of unique genetic variation in there.
And, you know, there's some interesting studies where there's certain cohorts of people that are significantly overweight, but they never experience any of these metabolic deranging diseases, type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease.
And so it becomes kind of complex ferreting out, you know, who has the real problems and what do we need to do to address that.
From an orthopedic standpoint, we could make an argument that being lighter would be good.
It'll be better on your hips, better on your knees.
And how old are you?
He'd be better on his wife.
I am 45 years old.
They've got me supplementing with vitamin D, which is giving me more energy as well.
Yeah, my back went out.
I ended up calling Stephen because I knew that his back had gone out before the body.
He's the back out expert.
Yeah.
My back's been out since like 2010.
He's back and he's out.
Oh, geez.
Well, that's the planet fitness video.
The thing is, I want to dive into it, but we're going to have to go to a break in 30 seconds.
But yeah, you know, it's funny that you say that, Rob.
It's hard.
Like, you can pull, we've talked about this before.
You can pull people out of the population and different weights and all of them will have different problems.
It seems like the crossover is very difficult to find.
Okay, let's just go to a break real quick.
That way we can let Rob dig in with us schlubs and actually teach us.
Lauderwith Crowder.
We'll be back after the break.
Back on Lauderwith Crowder, Rob Wolf, RobWolf.com, one of the most popular health and fitness podcasts in the history of the universe, right, Rob?
Yeah, but that's a clear sign that there's a lack of real talent in that vertical.
Is it?
Okay.
Yeah.
That's kind of like us with news and politics.
But so Fundip was talking about this.
So he's looking to lose weight.
To give you an idea, Fundip, you know, would come in and he would have Hebrew National hot dogs for breakfast.
I mean, we have it on video.
It's beef.
Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
I see no real issue with that.
It's the buns that'll kill you.
Yeah.
Yes.
So now they have you doing what some people would see as more traditional, right, Rob, like more traditional dieting, calorie restriction, but not necessarily looking at the food groups.
What would you do with Fundip to make him the best Fundip he can be?
Well, you know, the key with this stuff, and it gets a little geeky, but we need to find foods that you just really can't overeat with.
And so we were talking about, you know, the majestic Cheeto here in a minute, or just maybe we need to call them orange cheese puffs so that we don't have undue branding applied to that.
But, you know, lean meats, fruits, vegetables, even things like a baked potato plane versus a baked potato with a bunch of ranch and sour cream and butter on it.
If we move towards simple meals, simple plates, then it becomes very difficult to overeat on that.
But one of the things that we find is that people say that they become bored and kind of woven into our genetics is this thing called palate fatigue.
Like we just get bored with the stuff that's in front of us.
And we now live in an environment where we have an infinite variety of foods, an infinite variety of flavors and textures and whatnot.
And if you look at the strategies that professional food eaters employ, like a guy will be on a contest to eat 10 pounds of ice cream in like 15 minutes or something.
And the guy is eight pounds in and he bogs down and the guy will order a plate of salty french fries, eat some french fries to get a change in the flavor, and then he's able to eat the rest of the food, which is really kind of counterintuitive.
You know, you figure that once your belly is full, that you're completely full.
But a lot of our appetite is driven by our brain.
And the flavors that we send to the brain and whatnot will determine how much we eat or if we eat within kind of reasonable parameters.
So what tends to be successful, and this is regardless of if you eat low carb or paleo or vegan or whatever, it tends to say that word.
We don't allow that word at all.
No eating is yeah, I don't have the warm snugglies for him either, but you know, there's a reality that you can pick almost any eating plan and it performs better than the American Dietetics recommended plan, which is take any food that's available, and food is very strongly in quotation points, like a Twinkie is considered a food, and you're just supposed to limit the portion sizes on that.
But when you have these foods that have been cooked up by a chemist to be hyper-palatable and taste really good and have this amazing kind of mouthfeel, it's very, very difficult.
What's the Lays commercial?
Bet you can't eat just one.
Oh, yeah.
You know, they had in Canada, they had that high sticker, Mark Messier, pushing those things.
Like, I mean, it was just like just pushing them on kids.
And you know what?
I thought, I bet you he's right.
And I bought myself some Lays.
Yeah.
And you didn't eat just one.
You know, so that's one of those.
I think one bag.
Yeah, just one bag, one palate.
So it's interesting that almost any dietary approach that limits food options to some degree will tend to be more successful than what the government is telling us to do.
But yet then the government dieticians tell us that we have orthorexia or eating disorders by limiting certain types of food.
So it's this – it's an interesting rope-a-dope where – So why does the government – let me ask you this.
Not to get political, but it is a political show.
Why does the government seem to consistently want to get more and more involved?
I mean, even, listen, I don't believe that the government is necessarily inherently bad or inherently altruistic, right?
They're bad.
Okay, fun dip.
But they're increasingly getting involved in an area where they've been wrong.
It would seem that if they want to help people, they would hire someone like you or more biochemists, right?
And to do medical research and nutritional research as opposed to just, ah, eat 12 servings of grains a day.
Well, I'm going to make some folks angry because There are a number of people who tend to be more conservative leaning that live in states where farm subsidies are kind of part and parcel with their existence.
And we really didn't see this issue emerge until around 1970, 1971, when we aggressively subsidized the production of food in the United States.
And we had a couple of years where food was just rotting in warehouses.
And so people said, well, we can't just increase food production and let it rot.
So they started encouraging food manufacturers to figure out ways of making this food long shelf life and stable.
And that really was the beginning of snack wells and all the junk food that we see today.
So we have a really good thing.
Snack wells.
Are those still around?
I think they're still around and they still have an American Heart Association stamp on them.
Is that the green box, right?
They would have like all the cookies.
Oh, their devil's food cookies were just insanely good.
They're not bad.
I wouldn't kick them out of bed for sure.
So, you know, I mean, it's a really complex story.
You have a lot of money, a lot of political interests that are vested in this.
You have a lot of people that derive their current income from what I call farmer welfare, which pisses a lot of people off.
Oh, I know.
Well, we talked about that with Lear Keith, too.
And it's funny, this idea.
And I think she's wrong in a lot of issues, obviously, but this idea that, well, we have to save the farmer.
And anytime you get into that, by the way, the welfare is being given to these giant corporate mega farms, too.
The government gets involved just like banks.
It's not the little guys.
No, it's not the little guys.
And it's like, oh, we have to save the orange farm in Florida because of tomatoes in Colorado.
That's probably scientifically inaccurate.
They probably don't grow tomatoes in Colorado.
But you get my point, Robert.
Yes, I do.
I do.
Yeah.
And so, I mean, it's a complex issue.
And, you know, interestingly, I don't know if you guys talked about this on the show, but after 60 years of demonizing dietary cholesterol, the government did a complete retraction on that story.
And part of that story said that I'll paraphrase it and I'll totally butcher it, but that in the future, we need to be much less arrogant about the assumptions that we make and let the data really stand for itself.
And that was kind of a bold statement to come out of an institution like the folks that put that report out.
Well, that's what I was bringing up initially, and I misspoke.
I was talking about the food pyramid.
I meant the cholesterol, the guy, the cholesterol dietary guidelines.
I mean, you must have just been through the roof happy about that because people have been saying that for years.
And it's like doctors have been slow to get on board because they're still afraid of cholesterol until finally they said, hey, this is just the reality.
Yeah, you know, there was never any data to support the idea that cholesterol caused heart disease in the beginning, that dietary cholesterol caused heart disease in the beginning.
And we spent 50, 60 years and billions of dollars trying to prove something that never had really a scrap of evidence right from the get-go.
Why were they trying to prove it, though?
That's my question.
Why did they set out to it seems that they set out to prove cholesterol as the villain?
Not is it good?
Is it bad?
It seems like if you look at the studies, they were geared toward proving cholesterol as a dietary culprit.
Am I wrong or why do they?
No, no, they did.
And the folks that wrote the report were largely non-scientists who were vegetarian.
And so that's where it really all started from.
You know, there was a committee that sat down to write these reports and they were vegetarian.
And there is some reality in research, the research world, that if you feed rabbits cholesterol, that they will develop atherosclerosis.
But rabbits are herbivores.
They're not omnivores like we are.
And so we react to dietary cholesterol very, very differently.
And there is a genetic disease, familial hypercholesterolenia, where folks tend to die young.
They die from coronary artery disease.
They have exceptionally high blood cholesterol and lipoprotein levels.
And so they had a genetic disease where they saw it very rapidly advancing cardiovascular disease.
And they had an animal model that seemed to say that dietary cholesterol was a causative factor.
There's some correlation there, but then when you, even in the early iterations of this story, that was very weak science and the science that was really trying to implicate dietary cholesterol as being causative in cardiovascular disease.
There was really nothing there.
But there were some kind of red herrings out there that directed people in a false direction and created a story that was palatable to people.
Yeah.
Well, that's what my dad's doctor, actually, he's a great doctor, but even he was like, well, you know, keep your eggs limited.
And so my dad did the, you know, the green smoothies for, and I talked about that.
I did that for a long time.
Just horrible for my thyroid.
You know, blending up some fruit is fine with some, you know, some like kefir and some, I'll actually put in some egg yolks.
I basically made like a homemade eggnog.
It's delicious.
But yeah, the green smoothie trend now, I mean, you see that health expert on TV with your nick.
I can't use the actual, I guess, patented term.
It's a, let's call it nutra smoothie.
Right.
And everyone's just like, well, if I just throw everything and go ape crap crazy in a blender, I'll be healthy.
Yeah, it'll be chopping like a goose, but oh well.
Yeah.
I tend to eat a lot of salmon and a lot of flank steak and even ground beef.
If I make a decent sloppy joe and don't use the bun, I can't imagine there's anything wrong with tomato sauce and ground beef.
No, I mean, it's great stuff.
And, you know, the thing that should drive all this, particularly on an individual level, you should be able to experiment and figure out what works for you.
Clearly, I have kind of a, you know, this paleo ancestral diet kind of orientation.
Let's say I'm crazy and I don't know what I'm talking about, though.
But people could try this stuff on like a sweater.
You get some blood work done, you do something for 30 or 60 days, get some blood work done at the end of it.
And if your cholesterol looks better and you look, feel, and perform better, then we're on a good track.
If things are looking goofy, then we have some really simple other templates that we can use.
Again, whether it's vegetarian or vegan or what have you, let's really let the outcome-based medicine drive that story.
Well, you know what?
It's funny you say that because full disclosure, Rob and I have worked together behind the scenes a little bit, really, just kind of some advice.
So when I was, I have the cholesterol numbers in front of me.
May I, Rob?
Yeah, please.
This was my cholesterol was 219.
And actually, it was always pretty good.
My cholesterol was 219.
LDL, 140, HDL, 60.
Triglycerides were a little higher than ideal at 94.
And that was when I was doing a lot of green smoothies, kind of more, not vegetarian, but limiting the meat because that's what I was told.
Then I said, okay, started eating more eggs, meat in the morning.
Not no carb, not paleo, full disclosure, but more, focused more on meat and didn't bother with fat and eliminating a lot of refined carbohydrates.
Cholesterol went from 219 to 178.
LDL went from 140 to 115.
HDL stayed about the same.
It went to 54.
Triglycerides dropped from 94 to 59.
Yeah, and the triglycerides are the indicator of how insulin resistant you are.
And so you went from heading down the road towards diabetes to completely pulling that back, and you're never going to become diabetic from that.
And every well-controlled randomized control trial that's compared like a little bit higher fat, higher protein diet with a higher carbohydrate diet, particularly refined carbohydrates, we see this again and again.
When people eat more protein, more fat, their blood lipids tend to go in a favorable direction.
They tend to spontaneously eat less, which it's funny, the researchers will then add more food to try to keep the calories even because in science you do want to compare apples to apples.
But the irony is that if you just simply eat more protein and fat, you tend to eat fewer calories overall.
And that's the problem ultimately is people overeat.
And that was kind of my point earlier about the neuroregulation of appetite.
If we eat certain foods, they tend to tell our brain, hey, we're good.
We're finished.
We've eaten enough.
And then you're satisfied and you don't feel hungry.
And it has all these great metabolic benefits, too.
So, probably the best thing would be to eat the nuts, eat the hot dogs without the bun, eat more steaks, eat more chicken, and then got to have some greens, I would imagine.
My two favorite greens are broccoli and Brussels sprouts.
Yeah.
Yeah, lots of fruits and vegetables within that template.
And I think you're set.
So, like, breakfast could be the Hebrew Nation hot dog with a hold on one second.
I have to let you go.
We'll be right back after the break with a personalized fundip diet plan.
Rob Wolf, stay tuned.
We're back, Rob Wolf on Ladder with Crowder.
Okay, so Rob, we asked you a question, then you got all science-y on us.
And people passed out.
I'm the perfect cure for insomnia.
I talk and people fall asleep.
Well, you know, that's a big part of your plan with recovery: proper sleep.
You're a big guy.
If you sleep better, you will be healthier across the board.
Right.
So they did recommend today that I need to take a sleep apnea test.
And I'm really leery of that because of all the things glued to your head.
I don't know how I would even survive it.
You know, I would hold, man.
So the deal with sleep apnea is that if you aren't sleeping well, that can make you very, very insulin resistant.
We work a lot with police, military, and fire.
And those folks, because of their shift work, even if they eat well, even if they exercise a lot, they become very insulin resistant and can look like a type 2 diabetic.
So if you have sleep disturbance, there could be an argument for using like a CPAP machine to help you sleep better and you use it for two or three months until your weight drops and you're but they said that you weren't insulin resistant though yeah I think that they thought well he's a fat guy clearly we need to get him a CPAP right you know you you you could do I know it's strange but it's true I'm just trying to figure out how to you know tactfully transition to the next topic so
There's this fat bugger over here.
He needs a CPAP.
Just give him three of them.
He'll eat them.
Shifting gears somewhat, you could get a Jawbone or some sort of a sleep monitoring app on your iPhone or smartphone.
Do they have that for the flip phone?
You're thinking Jawbone.
I think that they have a rotary dial for that.
Well, I got that in the basement.
Okay, perfect.
But, you know, there's some really cheap, inexpensive things that can give you an idea if you're just having terrible sleep.
If you're having terrible sleep, demarcated by your waking up multiple times a night and whatnot, then you could go in, get a sleep study, possibly use a CPAP to get you over the hump so that if you sleep better, you will absolutely become less insulin resistant and you will lose weight more effectively.
You don't have that problem, though.
You don't seem to have that problem.
Like you seem to sleep well.
You don't snore a lot.
Well, you don't have insulin resistance, that's for sure.
Yeah, no insulin resistance.
I don't know if I snore a lot.
The cat doesn't say so.
Okay.
Hard to say.
But I do get up now that I'm over 40 and wake up a couple of times at night to take care of stuff as far as, you know, restroom and that.
I don't know if I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I'm over 40 and I Well, you know, and that's an interesting, that is another interesting side effect of carrying extra fat mass is that we tend to within our fat.
Yeah, I'm going to be burned at the stake.
Within our fat, we have an enzyme called aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen.
And when that estrogen level goes up, then it tends to irritate the prostate.
So that is true.
When I go on bulking cycles, I always notice, I mean, I don't go on bulking cycles, but when I'm like, hey, it's winter and I'm lifting heavy, so I'm not concerned about it, and I put on maybe 10 pounds, I always notice I have to get up here in the bathroom.
Yeah.
So, I mean, that is one of the sneaky side effects of carrying excess body fat is that you will convert testosterone into estrogen.
And biology played a really interesting trick on men.
The part of the brain that regulates testosterone levels responds to estrogen.
So your estrogen levels go up and then the brain gets this feedback loop and it sees high estrogen levels and then it says, well, we have adequate testosterone.
So it actually down-regulates testosterone production.
And you get in this very vicious feed-forward kind of situation with that.
Yeah, that's exactly what the prolactinoma does.
It's on the pituitary gland and it's this growth and it reduces the testosterone and it increases the estrogen.
And I end up liking art, French films, and cats.
We could talk later.
Offline.
Yeah.
He's like, hey, I want to go out with Fundip.
He also admitted on.
I'm going to put it out now by Rob.
Fundip also admitted on air that he would engage in relations with a transgender man.
So he is definitely going full on.
You have a dress, Rob.
I neither.
I'm sorry, Rob.
My daughter has many tutus.
Does that count?
I don't know.
I don't think they'll shit you.
You know, something I would throw to your doctor, and some docs freak out about this, but while you're trying to lose weight while you're in that process, seeing if the doctor would be willing to get you on arimidex, which is an aromatase inhibitor, you could make a very strong argument for that, improving your prostate function and also helping to naturally raise your testosterone levels.
Although with the prolactinoma, there may be some contraindications with that.
But that might be something to run up the flagpole with that.
The prostate thing is called arima-what?
Arimidex.
Arimidex.
And it originally was a cancer drug for breast cancer that responds to estrogen.
But what it does is it prevents the conversion of testosterone into estrogen.
And then there's also like chlomiphene citrate chlomid, I know, but it acts differently, right?
Where it's a, is it like an estrogen?
Is it like an analog kind of thing?
Chlomid actually stimulates the production of testosterone.
It produces luteinizing hormone and actually causes the release of testosterone.
So that would be if somebody due to metabolic issues or inflammation, like they've basically taken their testicles offline and you need to – Fondep's wife has done that.
Winged the fell.
No, not her testicles.
I meant Fundip's testicles.
I knew what you meant.
Okay, good.
So, Rob, okay.
We don't have too much time, and I feel like we've already ruined reputation.
So, let me bring it back.
Like, simplify for Fundip, right?
Because we might even start a fitness log here on the YouTube channel.
For those listening terrestrially, ladderwithcreditor.com, you can stay up to date.
What should Fundip be doing, right?
Like, you see him bringing in his lunchbox.
What would be, you know, Fundip loves his Hebrew nationals.
He loves his beef.
He loves salmon, all that stuff.
What should he be doing to make it sustainable and just lose weight and not be, like you said, not be longing for stuff that she does?
You know, the point there about sustainability is really the key.
And usually, what we need is enough variety so that we stick on a reasonable plan, not so much variety that the variety becomes cheese puffs.
So, you know, like the Hebrew National in the morning with A couple of handfuls of nuts, weight, you know, do a couple of ounces in a Ziploc bag.
Lunch could be salmon with a bunch of veggies.
You know, epidemiologically, the coffee that seems to be the more you drink, the longer you live.
So I would have many.
I've got to get coffee with every meal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How about beans and cheese?
I like beans to a certain extent.
I like sauerkraut.
And I need cheese.
I have to have like a good 10-year cheddar.
Is that okay?
That's fine.
That's fine.
Yeah.
You know, so within that framework, just get as much variety as you can, but keep the meals relatively simple, like one or two items per meal.
And then maybe you run a week or two with basically the same breakfast, lunch, dinner, and then you really change it up.
So instead of the Hebrew National for breakfast, then it's like a hot link and some coconut chips or something.
Like it's still kind of the same template, but you're changing it up.
You're changing the textures.
You're changing the seasonings.
And then that way you won't be completely burned out on this versus throwing it to Hebrew National and then going crazy.
Well, yeah, just ditch the damn fruit cups, Fun Dip.
That's what I'm saying.
Like, I don't, the problem is you have like these nutritionists who go out there and, you know, they're giving fun dip advice based on, like you said, the FDA guidelines, you know, which are outdated already and they're even acknowledging now.
So fun dip, I think you'll be happier with this.
You'll be able to eat the stuff you like.
And I mean, I think it'll just, I think it'll work.
That's why I wanted to have an intervention with Rob and bring him on.
Basically, he was throwing you under the bus to die by bringing you on.
Well, as long as it's a red double-decker bus, I'm okay.
Perfect.
Perfect.
You and your doctor who.
No, that's just my fascination.
My fascination with London.
But yeah, he's got the TARDIS.
He knows what's going on.
But the Red Double Decker bus ties in with London Calling, my show on Saturday nights, 10 p.m. to midnight.
I play the best.
Oh, right.
Let's, you know, since you're going to do that, let's let Rob get his plug in.
Rob, get your plug in.
If people want to find you and learn more about sensible diet, health, nutrition, like where should they go?
Well, now that I'm on parole, they can usually find me at robwolf.com, 2Bs, R-O-B-B-W-O-L-F.
And then I have a podcast that, oddly enough, is in the top five on iTunes, the Paleo Solution.
So you can check that stuff.
That's true.
And we've stolen some of your guests.
Gary Wilson with Your Brain on Porn was a great guest who, yeah, if people don't listen.
He's getting used to it after a while.
What?
Oh, gosh.
He's like, what?
It took me a while to catch it, and then I realized, of course, it comes from a perverted place with Fun Dip.
So, Rob, thank you so much for coming on.
And what we would love to do is have you come back on, and we'll follow Fun Dip's progress and see where he's going.
And if it doesn't work, we'll totally throw you under the bus and blame it all.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Any failure on your part, you can attribute to me.
There you go.
It's all Rob's fault.
Perfect.
Yes.
And any success, we will attribute to Oprah.
Rob Wolf, thank you very much, but we must let you go.
Bye, guys.
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