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April 15, 2015 - Louder with Crowder
14:16
A Chilling Story on Abortion From Ann McElhinney || Louder With Crowder
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Because what he did was illegal.
He murdered those children, absolutely.
So it's first degree murder.
The problem is exactly the point that Kirsten Powers made the point of.
If you think that's disgusting what he did, if you think it's disgusting, well then why is it that you don't think it's disgusting when it happens inside the woman?
Because by the way, it's completely legal what he did if he had done it in the womb.
Completely, basically.
Completely legal.
Back with our lovely guest, Anne McElhinney.
I have to say it in a stereotypical Irish way, because otherwise I can't say it very well with my mealy-mouthed Canadian-slash-Midwestern accent.
So we were talking about science.
Okay, before we go into the next segment, science is not governed by consensus.
It's governed by truth.
Anne, put that in a bumper sticker.
You've done, obviously, Frack Nation.
Now you're going on to this Gosnell movie.
Correct me if I'm wrong, the biggest Indiegogo funding campaign of all time for an independent film?
It broke all their records at the time for an independent film, absolutely.
And it broke all records for a non-celebrity-led film everywhere.
It was a great response.
It's just amazing because the story is...
You know, words really fail to describe what Kermit Gosnell did.
I mean, language really starts to fail.
And it's really interesting as I've worked on it, and I'm actually writing a book about it as well.
And as I've worked on it, the only comparison that works for me at all is Auschwitz.
It's the only thing.
The Holocaust is all I can compare it to.
One thing that was said in Auschwitz that I think is amazing is somebody said, where was God in Auschwitz?
And a rabbi said, it's the wrong question.
The question is, where was humanity?
And I found that really helpful with Gosnell because dealing with the people, all of the people that knew what was going on, Doctors, nurses, people in beautiful offices in Harrisburg, unbelievable numbers of people knew and did nothing.
And you have to ask yourself, where was humanity?
How low can people go?
And the scenes that happened on a daily basis in his clinic...
Nothing anyone has ever seen in a horror movie can compare.
I mean, today I was just reading Steve Massoff was one of the doctors.
He had two fake doctors who worked with him, Eileen O'Neill and Steve Massoff.
But Steve Massoff is in a category of his own.
He had done a medical school training in the West Indies, was unable to get a residency, worked in a bar and then accidentally met Gosnell and got a job.
His testimony, I have never read anything like the testimony he gave on the stand.
Gosnell never defended himself, and he never took the stand.
They never called any witnesses.
But Steve Massoff was on the stand, and he said he ran.
He ran around with scissors.
He says that.
He ran because there were just so many of them, so many of these fetuses that were alive, these babies that were alive.
And he ran with the scissors, and he said the walls.
He said the walls, he said the blood flowed down the walls.
He said that under oath, under pain of perjury, that's what he said.
And you read it and you think, well, I read it and every day I read it and I have to leave the computer and I have to walk out on the beach because I'm thinking...
Because it's chilling to think that humanity can get that low.
Who are these people?
And there were eight other people working in there.
These women, these collection of women that Gosnell found to do this.
And they were all doing it.
They all did it.
There was babies arriving in toilets, swimming for their lives, swimming.
And I'm trying to, in the book that I'm writing, I'm trying to give every baby that I can a story about To try to tell the little story they had.
Because they really did live, you know, and they tried in their own way to make a statement.
And I'm going to chronicle the statements.
Baby Boy A, the one that anyone listening right now can look up and look at his photograph, that beautiful boy.
If you put into Google Baby Boy A and Gosnell, you'll see that baby.
Born at 30 weeks and 3 days and He curled himself up and Karima Cross, who took to the stand, they said to her, can you stand up?
Can you show everyone?
And she stood up and she curled herself in her body.
And that's what this little boy tried to do, to try to protect himself.
They had a neonatologist on the stand.
They asked a neonatologist to explain what it's like to be born at that age.
And he said, preemies, they're really cold.
They're really cold.
And ones that won't survive in hospitals, you know, if they were born and they weren't going to survive in a hospital.
That they keep them warm and they hold them and they dim the lights because they find the lights really hard.
They find the lights very hard on themselves.
So these children were born alive.
Most of them were viable.
And they were thrown into Tupperware containers and empty milk cartons.
And they curled themselves, this little boy, you know.
And people just, you know, people were walking by, you know.
People were there.
And one woman I interviewed recently who had an abortion there, she said the screams were blood-curdling.
She said, why did no one report it?
She said the room she was in, the window was open.
And she said she woke up during the procedure and her screams were blood-curdling.
And I'm thinking, you know, it's that horrific.
It's that horrific.
And it's like lots of people knew.
17 years and no one inspected it.
The Department of Health should all be sacked yesterday for allowing that to happen on their watch.
Who are these people?
And you say that, and your husband says that.
And you're the ones who are hateful and anti-woman.
And that's one of the saddest – that's one of the saddest stories I've ever heard.
I mean it's one of the most touching stories I've ever heard.
And then when you see the fallout of it, just today we saw this quote from Elizabeth Warren saying the government shouldn't have any involvement to Rand Paul, saying, well, what do you say?
What do you say, Mr.
Paul?
I say government shouldn't have anything to do with it at any point.
Your move.
As though it's something to be proud of.
And by the way, I was just talking with my producer here who's – We've talked about this.
You're not necessarily a very religious person.
You mentioned that you weren't really big on the abortion issue before this.
This is what transitioned for you.
Well, my producer here is a Christian and pro-life.
And when I told him about the Barack Obama situation in Illinois, basically was faced with a bill in Illinois where babies like this were surviving abortions and being thrown in basically garbage bins alive.
And I think every single person in the state legislature said, OK, we have to protect these babies, including Democrats.
The only person who said no was Barack Obama.
His justification was there was already a law in the books.
Well, if that's the case, this never even needed to come to the floor.
So obviously the laws weren't working.
And also he could have just voted present like he did on hundreds of other opportunities.
But in this one, he was passionate enough to say no.
These babies surviving abortions do not deserve to be saved.
And that's where I say, you know, most people I believe are ideologues, never chalk up to evil what you can probably chalk up to incompetence.
But this is one of those situations where even if you don't believe it's a life in the womb, it's very clear at this point that it is.
And people who still line up with, ah, the mom can do whatever they want, I say that's as close to evil as you can get.
Yeah, I mean it's another...
Yeah, it certainly made me start to think about the nature of good and evil and where does evil come from and all of that.
I mean, it does bring up all those issues.
But for me, it's almost like the people who had had all the advantages in life, you know, the people with the beautiful jobs in Harrisburg, the doctors in hospitals.
I mean, by the way, there were lots of heroes, by the way, lots of heroes who are going to be very much to the forefront in our film.
But all these other people.
Who were paid to protect the citizens of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and who shirked those duties and moved paper around and were filing papers and moving papers and putting faxes here and passing things on to their superior.
And when they were spoken to by the grand jury, said things like, well, it wasn't my job.
And I gave it to Jim and Jim gave it to John and John gave it to the lawyers.
And you're listening to them.
And at one point...
One person in the grand jury, Joanne Pescatori, said to one of these awful people, but people died there.
Samika Shaw died there.
Karnamaya Monger died there.
And she literally did this, the woman on the stand.
She went...
People die.
People die, you know.
She mightn't feel the same with a relative of her own, you know.
But their lack of humanity is breathtaking.
It's just breathtaking.
And we just feel that this is why the movie is so important and why anyone who's out there that's listening to us, just give us one dollar.
We have 27,000 people have given us money for this film.
I would like it to be 100,000.
Because it'll make a big difference with distributors.
But also, it's like Well, that's important to note.
Do you think?
Yeah.
That's important to note for our listener there.
It's very important to note that this isn't just – it's over $2 million that you've raised.
Yes.
But it comes from – But the numbers are – it comes from 27,000 people.
27,000 people.
And I know for liberals who can't do math, like with the memories pizza – Trevor Burrus No.
Yeah, they just go to gosnellmovie.com.
Go to gosnellmovie.com and just give a dollar.
Give a dollar and tell us that you think this matters.
I cannot tell you how much this story matters a great deal.
There are so many issues that have yet to be resolved.
Where the media were, the complete shirking of responsibility by the media.
But the shirking of responsibility by so many government agencies is...
And no one has...
You know, no one's been brought to book.
I mean, there hasn't been a huge inquiry in Pennsylvania to prevent it from happening again.
I think...
I mean, my opinion is entirely opinion.
I think the reason for that is that same reason the woman gave the shoulder shrug.
I think this is a physical manifestation of what many people already know happens inside the womb, already know happens with abortion.
A lot of those people, if you really pin them down, they understood the science, they would acknowledge it's a life and...
Yeah, but it's an inconvenient life.
I think this is just a more clear-cut, hey, it's undeniable.
And even then, they're going, it's still not important enough to me.
I think the real problem with our story and with the film is that it makes people confront abortion.
Right.
Because what he did was illegal.
He murdered those children, absolutely.
So it's first-degree murder.
The problem is exactly the point that Kirsten Powers made the point of.
If you think that's disgusting, what he did, if you think it's disgusting...
Well, then why is it that you don't think it's disgusting when it happens inside the woman?
Because, by the way, it's completely legal what he did if he had done it in the womb.
Completely, basically.
Completely legal.
And in some parts of America.
In some parts of America, you can basically have an abortion right up until the day of your delivery.
And that's the law in America.
Very few countries can compare with that.
And by the way, Europe, which I have a lot of bad things to say about, Isn't even anywhere close to the laws that you have here.
24 weeks in Pennsylvania.
Even 24 weeks.
I remember when the two prosecutors got this case, these two women, both mothers, they looked at each other and said, 24 weeks?
That's six months.
And I mean, everyone who's listening, six months.
I mean, you're super pregnant at six months.
And the idea that you are allowed by law to legally kill that baby is quite extreme.
You already know the personality at six months.
My mom can tell you between my brother and I, I was kicking at six – I was almost born at six months prematurely.
My brother almost killed my mom when he was born and then I almost died.
Whatever pills I had to put my mom on, I was trying to get out.
She was going – I could sense Stephen was angsty.
He was – Go, go, go.
All mothers will tell you by six months they have a connection with their baby.
Yeah, but what I think...
Do we have time for...
Okay, let's give you one more minute.
Just one more minute, because the thing that I think is extraordinary is a lot of the people who are in favor of all these laws, who are in favor of no limits on abortion, are the same people who, when they have decided to have a baby themselves, are playing Mozart.
I know people myself who think abortion is a great idea.
They read Dickens.
They read Dickens to their unborn baby.
And I'm thinking...
Well, hang on.
How does that work?
Because by the way, I'm all in favor of the Dickens at any age.
I think it's all good.
I used to teach literature.
I think it's great.
And I think the Mozart's a great idea.
But you can't have both.
You can't think it's okay that you need to have Mozart played to your baby and that it's okay so that that baby has that humanity that will really love that music, will love all those stories being told.
And yet, on the other hand, you're holding the same opinion that it's okay to cut the inside of that head of that baby inside the womb and then suck out its brains with a vacuum cleaner.
I think it's one of the things we're going to do with this film.
I don't think it's ever been done in a movie before.
We're going to put on the stand, because it happened in the trial, an abortion doctor to explain how it's done.
Because people should know.
Absolutely.
You are right.
And little known fact, Joe Biden's mom played Beastie Boys while he was in the womb, and that's why he fought for his right to party.
So I'm sorry.
It was too uncomfortable for me.
We got too serious.
But you're absolutely right.
And thank you so much.
We have to have you back on the show.
Gosnellmovie.com.
If you're listening terrestrially, go type it in.
If you're watching online, we will put the link in the description.
Gosnellmovie.com.
And thank you so much.
We have to have you back.
Thanks so much, Steven.
It was great.
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