Maureen Callahan examines Jeffrey Epstein’s death, questioning whether he was murdered or allowed suicide by authorities amid unreleased video evidence. His ties to elites like Bill Clinton and George Stephanopoulos persisted despite convictions, while figures like Ghislaine Maxwell evade accountability. Parallels with Sean "Diddy" Combs’ trial—alleged abuse, threats to victims, and unsolved deaths (Kim Porter, Tupac, Biggie)—highlight systemic protection of predators. Epstein’s black book, ignored media warnings (e.g., Harvey Weinstein’s early accusations), and ABC’s censorship of JFK-Kennedy-Monroe rumors expose deep institutional corruption, leaving victims silenced and truths buried. [Automatically generated summary]
Hey everyone, it's Andrew Clavin with this week's interview with Maureen Callahan.
She's the host of the Nerve podcast and the New York Times best-selling author of Ask Not, The Kennedys and the Women They Destroyed, which I read and just I couldn't put it down.
It was just really good stuff.
But I want to talk to her today about another destructive force, namely Jeffrey Epstein and what's going on in the Epstein case.
I have to admit that this story has now got me confused.
I would have sworn at one point that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered.
But when Dan Bongino and Kash Patel both tell me, no, he committed, it doesn't mean he wasn't allowed to commit.
But still, I'm not sure.
I do believe them.
I think they're honest guys, but I'm not sure what on earth is going on.
The abuse, the sexual abuse of young people among elites seems to me to be epidemic.
Obviously, in churches, both Catholic and Protestant.
In Hollywood, I've known about it for years.
It's especially bad among gays who pass around young boy actors.
In the media, I think it's mostly among straits who take advantage of young women who come to work so desperately to work in film or in TV.
Something about having money and power apparently makes people want to feel that other people are this, there, for their sexual pleasure.
And Jeffrey Epstein is a symbol of this, but he's not, he's just the center of it.
I mean, look, we saw NBC protect Harvey Weinstein so that Ronan Farrow had to publish his work at the New Yorker.
And meanwhile, NBC was covering up for Matt Lauer, who allegedly once attacked and aided a young woman so hard she passed out.
He allegedly once sodomized his girlfriend while she begged him not to.
We saw ABC spike the Epstein story during Hillary Clinton's election run and George Stephanopoulos, who got a start silencing women who had allegedly been abused by Bill Clinton, said he had nothing to do with spiking the story to help Hillary Clinton.
But George went to a tribute party for Jeffrey Epstein after Epstein had been convicted the first time.
And CBS fired a woman on suspicion of releasing the video that proved that they had spiked the story.
What I mean is this corruption just seems to be pervasive among the people who have power and influence in our society.
And I wanted to talk to Maureen Callahan because she is also a columnist of the Daily Mail, and she has been covering the story about as closely as anybody, maybe more closely than anyone.
And I admired her reporting in the Kennedy book.
So I wanted to see if she could explain to me what the hell is going on.
Maureen, it's good to see you again.
Thank you for coming.
It's good to see you again, Andrew.
And, you know, adding to your list of miscreants is one Sean Diddy Combs, who is on trial as we speak in a federal courthouse in downtown New York City.
And the testimony that we are hearing from women, from men twice the size of him, who were forced to stand by while he beat the living crap out of these women, you know, their testimony is he threatened me.
He said, I'll kill you.
I'll kill your family members.
I'll bring harm.
You know, so it is epidemic.
It is pervasive.
And I've been talking about this a lot on the nerve recently because it does seem like it's such an infestation in media, in Hollywood, in the music industry.
Every rock you turn over, more cockroaches crawl out.
And, you know, the other day I was talking about Bill Maher, who used the Diddy trial on his show last week as a Trojan horse to blame abused girls and women for what's happened to them and how it really is their fault for wanting money, fame, power, what have you.
And so they'll gladly take a beating.
He called it getting a coupon, you know?
And it's this level of misogyny in the culture that, you know, I think.
A lot of women took heart after Harvey Weinstein was found guilty following some very nuanced, complicated testimony.
That was a jury that was composed of more men than women, and they still found him guilty.
Now, of course, he's appealing it right now.
But it was pointed out to me that Bill, the night after the Harvey story broke, said nothing on the air on his show.
Lauren Michaels refused to do anything about it on SNL.
He called it a New York thing.
It's a New York thing.
I remember that.
This is news to me.
And then, you know, recently, Andrew, there were photos published of the inside of Epstein's townhouse, which I believe is still on the market.
And you cannot tell me that anybody who went over to that house for a dinner, say a Katie Couric, a Chelsea handler, and this was, I believe, after his conviction.
You know, he got a slap on the wrist.
He had so many people in his pocket in power.
But you go over there and you look at the artwork in that house and he is telling you exactly who he is.
There is no mistaking it.
See, this is the thing.
I mean, the guy's a billionaire.
I understand he comes to New York.
He hangs out with people.
I understand that every powerful person who comes into his, you know, into his sway is not necessarily doing anything wrong.
I cannot, you know, you shake hands with people with parties, you chat with people in parties, but at some point, everybody knew.
You know, when George Stephanopoulos goes to that tribute party, he knows that this guy is a sex trafficker.
He's been convicted of it.
And yet there doesn't seem to be any kind of penalty for it at all, which is what I want.
Before I get to this, how did you get involved in this story?
I mean, were you were you involved in the James Patterson book?
Because I read that book, and that's one of the few books that actually explains what was going on.
Why did you get into this so early?
The James Patterson book was astonishing to me because it was like finally somebody was saying it.
Somebody put it in the pages of a book.
And I believe he co-authored that book with a former NYPD detective.
And it just said it.
It said it all.
And, you know, Epstein never sued.
He never sued for libel, for defamation, none of it.
And so you go, okay, well, then it's true.
And this is, by the way, is probably just scratching the surface.
And so I wrote a piece off of that book.
And this was while Epstein was still alive and roaming free and being a predator.
And, you know, most of the media wouldn't touch it.
And then someone reached out to me who said that she had been a victim.
She had been trafficked.
I began speaking with her.
I could never quite nail her down.
But she, you know, there was also another reporter.
Her name escapes me.
And I'm so sorry because she was doing heroic work.
It was, I think, Miami Harold, female reporter who was on Epstein, on Epstein, on Epstein.
When I was at the Post at the time at the New York Post, we would cover him from time to time, but he was such an elusive character.
You know, he'd get like stopped on the street by a reporter and say, you know, well, you're walking around.
You were convicted of, you know, sexual abuse of minor children.
And he would say, yeah, but the sentence I got, it's like shoplifting a bagel.
Like he, in his mind, he would compare it to something that minuscule.
And that tells you everything about the contempt he had for girls and women.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
So, you know, Kash Patel, the head of the FBI, Bongino, who's now his deputy, these seem to me like good folks.
I've met both of them, but and I've listened to Bongino.
He always seemed to be a straight-up guy.
They now say Epstein definitively killed himself.
Do you believe it?
No, I don't know where their, what, what's their sourcing?
What they say.
They're relatively new in these positions, so what's their sourcing?
What they're saying is that there is enough video of the cell block that he's on to show that nobody enters his cell and that they've seen the actual shots of the body and they have seen what suicide looks like.
And this was a suicide.
My question is, why can't we see that video as well?
They say they're going to release it.
They swear, you know, that they're just going to, they say they're going to not only clean up the video so we can see it, they're going to release the original so they know they didn't meddle with it.
I mean, it doesn't mean that somebody like in The Godfather 2 went in there and said, you know, Jeffrey, if you don't want your family to suffer, you know, you better just end this yourself.
It doesn't mean that they didn't let him kill himself because he was facing life in prison or something like that.
You know, Andrew, this has always fascinated me because I wrote a book prior to Ask Not called American Predator, and it was about a serial killer that the federal government captured and they could not believe his M.O.
They had never seen one like it.
And he was such a high-value suspect.
You know, he was being held in a prison in Alaska that in Anchorage that was not really equipped for a guy like him.
But he also allegedly committed suicide in that prison.
And I went to that prison and I did as deep of a dive as I could.
And they have never released the inside footage from that night.
I have been told firsthand by a source who would know that he was allowed to kill himself, that the guards facilitated it because it was their form of street justice, but it really cost the FBI and American criminology, you know, a wealth of knowledge.
So my question to the feds vis-a-vis this Epstein footage, you know, how many years has it been now?
Five?
Yeah.
Like, how long does it take to clean up a video from inside a federal prison and release it so we can all see that what they're saying is true?
Well, but until Trump came in, the FBI had been corrupted.
I mean, the FBI was corrupt.
There's just no question about it.
They were tracking down Catholics.
They were terrorizing parents who didn't want in their schools.
They had become completely politicized.
And our trust is, our hope is that Patel and Dan are going to go in there and clean house.
I trust them to do that.
I could be wrong in my trust, but I feel like they're going to do it.
And I don't know what, I mean, take this.
Gheline Maxwell.
Is that how you pronounce her first name?
She goes to prison.
If I'm the prosecutor, I offer her a deal.
Name the men and you'll get a deal on your sentence.
Nothing, nothing comes out of this.
So that makes me feel that maybe these guys are being protected.
I mean, is there a man that you can name that you know for a fact was basically using underage girls on the island of Jeffrey Epstein?
We don't know.
We don't know.
Nobody knows.
We, you know, the, God, that thing.
Okay.
You just said something about, what was the top thing you just said, Andrew?
About Ghelane Maxwell.
Yes.
Okay.
So I actually think that she was offered the mother of all deals.
You do.
You know, I do.
And I think that she, she refused.
And I think she refused either out of some twisted loyalty to Epstein, with whom she remained in love her entire life.
And she was his, she was his madam.
She was procuring these young girls and grooming them and all of that and participating in group sex with them.
These are assaults, by the way.
I don't mean to minimize them.
They're assaults.
But, you know, and when she was arrested, we at the Post, what we ran, I remember writing this column was that the feds had to keep her alive.
Ghelaine Maxwell's Loyalty00:16:48
If she is allowed to suicide in custody, now we're talking about a major, major global conspiracy, you know, because who else is involved?
And you see it, you see it, the army of enablers and the people who are the secret keepers.
And, you know, we've, we have photos of Bill Clinton on that private plane with Jeffrey Epstein.
But, you know, Bill, by the way, everything comes full circle.
Right now he's doing a media tour.
He was just on CBS Sunday morning last weekend with none other than James Patterson because they've co-authored another book together.
Oh my.
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Elon Musk, who I thought must have been on something at this point, he must be so stoned.
He doesn't know what he's doing, but he said Donald Trump is in the Epstein files.
Now, everything I've read about Donald Trump is, that's not true.
I mean, everything I've read about him, he knew Epstein.
They hung out together.
And then when he found out what Epstein was, he basically ditched him.
Am I wrong?
I think who knows?
You know, I don't, because we have no answers.
And so like you're, it's like you're trying to prove a negative, which is an impossibility.
You know, I think, you know, the New York magazine years ago published Epstein's black book and almost everyone's in it.
So, but like not everyone, to your point, was like engaging in this stuff.
They knew him socially.
He was a connection.
He was a means to get to somebody else, what have you.
You know, it's a lot, it's a lot of dirty dealing in these worlds.
And, you know, you sort of make your compromises or some make their compromises.
I don't know how one really justifies to oneself consorting with a known pedophile.
Yeah.
Like, you know, a guy who's just evil.
I believe he was evil, you know, and the world is better off without him.
But if he's suicided, the thing that is hard, I think, for me to wrap my mind around as Epstein is a suicide is that he was a malignant narcissist.
And the chances that malignant narcissists will ever kill themselves is extremely rare.
It's rare.
Now, could it be he couldn't face life in prison?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I think he'd probably go into prison and run that place the way Harvey is probably running Rikers, the way Sean Combs is currently running the Manhattan, wherever he's being kept, Brooklyn Detention Center, Manhattan Detention Center.
He's in there.
He was in there with Sam Bankman-Fried until Sam got moved recently to the Midwest.
And now he's like, his big rival there is Luigi Mangioni.
Oh, my.
You know, apparently Puffy's ego can't take it that Luigi's getting so much fan mail and he's got to go fund me that's up to like a quarter of a million or a million dollars.
You know, this is, this is what goes on with these guys.
Their priorities are right in line.
So you had a source who said she had been abused by Epstein.
And one of the problems is if these girls weren't disturbed to begin with, obviously predators go out and look for people who are kind of disturbed.
I mean, you don't go and get a healthy person and drag them into that situation.
And then afterwards, if they weren't disturbed before, they're going to be disturbed after.
It's hard to trust the people who come out.
I mean, did you come away thinking, now I know that this woman is telling me the truth or did you not?
I didn't.
And that's why I never ran with the story.
But, you know, to your point, abusers, they have radar for their prayer.
Okay.
These are usually girls and young women who have been sexually abused in their past, usually by somebody very close to them, a family member, a trusted friend, a priest.
So, you know, and so their minds have been tampered with along with their bodies.
Their minds have been tampered with.
They don't know what safety is, what love is.
And so these guys can pick them like cherries.
And I never came away from my conversations with that source thinking she's lying to me.
I came away thinking this is a very damaged woman.
Something terrible happened to her, but I can't lay it at the feet of this guy.
So I can't run with it.
What about Virginia?
What was her name?
Jeffrey?
Jeffrey.
Jeffrey.
Yeah.
There's a lot of speculation and worry that, you know, was she a suicide?
Was she?
I know, was she?
What do you think?
I mean, what do you?
I thought that that selfie she posted from her hospital bed about a week before was very telling and very concerning.
You know, she claimed that she had been in some kind of accident.
It later turned out she had not.
She was estranged from her husband, who apparently had custody temporary or otherwise of, I believe, their three minor children.
Things were obviously not well with her, not well.
But, you know, she was in her, I believe, mid-40s.
And then when you look at like Sean Combs, he had a longtime partner.
He never married her named Kim Porter.
And she bore at least three of his children.
She died in her mid-40s from quote-unquote pneumonia.
And there's a lot of questions in Diddy's Circle about what really caused Kim Porter's death.
And there's a lot of renewed interest in two of America's most famous cold cases, the murders of Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls.
And there is a lot of speculation, informed speculation in the hip-hop community that Sean Combs was responsible for those as well.
So we're talking to Maureen Callahan, the host of the Nerve Podcast, which I guess is on, is that on Megan's new network?
It's on the Megan Kelly network.
Yeah, the new Megan Kelly Media Network.
We're on YouTube, Spotify, Apple.
Yeah, that's great.
Okay.
So you wrote this book about the Kennedys.
And I mean, they're still kind of untouchable on the left.
I mean, they still write kind of worshipful stories about them.
There are institutes named after Teddy Kennedy who left a woman to drown.
I'm laughing.
I'm laughing only because the corruption is so vast.
I mean, you know, years ago, when director Roman Polanski, remember he that he drugged that 13-year-old girl.
And they interviewed him.
I think it was on 60 Minutes.
I can't remember.
But it was a serious interview.
And he said, I like young girls.
We all like young girls.
And I just thought, and when he was arrested, I guess in Switzerland, was it?
This entire.
I think he was arrested in LA.
He was offered a plea deal.
He's going to get like a slap on the wrist, like jail time, because he was also using the murder of Sharon Tate, his nine-month pregnant wife by the Manson family.
So he had all these little things he was, you know, dodging and weaving.
But sorry, go on.
Well, but then he, then he escaped.
He left the country and he was living and he traveled and he got arrested.
And all these Hollywood big shots, including Harvey Weinstein and Woody Allen, signed a petition saying he should be freed.
And he never was extradited here where he would have to face, you know, there's no statute of limitations on a fugitive.
So he would have to face justice for that.
So it was just like, oh, yeah, we all like young girls.
And I look at this, what is happening now and I think like maybe he's right.
Maybe these people, there's just too many of these people and they're too powerful to ever expose them.
Are you looking for this information to come out?
Do you think that the information of who was on Epstein Island is going to come out?
Because, you know, there's so many theories.
There's so many theories about, you know, people say, oh, he was with the Mossad.
He was some kind of spy.
He was recording this stuff.
I don't know about any of this stuff, but will this ever come out?
Are you looking toward any?
This is such a great question.
And before I answer it, I just want to circle back to your thing about Roman Polanski, that petition that so many Hollywood stars signed.
Do you remember that year he won the Oscar and absentia for directing the pianist?
Yeah.
And everybody stood up and gave him a standing ovation.
You got to be kidding.
Like my mind was blown.
It was blown.
That Epstein theory that he was like a spy for the United States and such, so a protected class, that kind of makes a lot of sense to me.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
Because why else?
Why else?
You know, and then you have to wonder too about, I do think things will come out.
It might be 10 years, 20 years from now.
I think any of those girls and women who saw these men, these very powerful, rich, wealthy men, are probably terrified to name names.
I think they look at Virginia Giuffrey and say, what we just did, was that a suicide?
Was it?
So I think maybe some someday, but will it be in our lifetimes?
I really don't know.
The other question I have, frankly, is: is this a self-selecting group of pedophiles who enter these industries knowing the desperation, knowing?
I mean, we are all watching right now.
And I'm not saying he's a victim and I hope to God he is not, but we are all watching the public decompensation of Justin Bieber, who was handed over to Diddy when he was a teenage boy, like 14, 15.
And he presented as a lot younger than that.
He looked like he was 12 or 13.
And, you know, is there a causal reason for that?
Perhaps.
I don't know.
But you have to wonder, you know, these guys knowing that there are parents out there who would gladly turn over their children.
Well, the money.
Whatever horrors visited upon them, whatever the cost of doing business is for some fame and some money, you know, it seems to be everywhere.
You know, there was this play, I think it won the Pulitzer Prize actually called Doubt.
It was made into a film with Meryl Streep about a pedophile priest.
And in the play, he puts forward, one person puts forward the theory that maybe this was the best thing that could have happened to this kid because at least he was accepted as a gay kid where his father would not accept him.
And I remember seeing this play where there was a discussion afterwards, and a guy got up and said, Yeah, that's really true, isn't it?
You know, I don't think I can speak.
You know, I don't think I can get the words out to tell him how evil I think this is.
So, I mean, when you were covering this, did you get any blowback?
You were with the mail when you were covering this or the post?
Both, the New York Post and the Daily Mail.
And yeah, I did get, you know, it wasn't My main blowback came in the form of one Alan Dershowitz, who, you know, some accuser had brought up his name and said that he was on that island and he had taken massages or whatever.
He has always denied it.
Yes.
And there's no reason to think any of it's true.
But the New Yorker was doing a profile of him.
And I have no idea how he found out that my source had potentially mentioned him.
It's so long ago.
But so the New Yorker called me and said, Alan Dershowitz says that you know this isn't true.
And I was like, how did I get involved in Alan Dershowitz's New Yorker profile?
Leave me out of it.
I don't even know him.
That was it.
But, you know, there's only so far, Andrew, that we were ever able to get with our reporting.
And that just goes to, I believe, the level of fear and intimidation that was inculcated into these victims, these victims and the survivors.
So now this thing you said about Bill Maher that he talks about, now I worked in Hollywood and I do remember, you know, how can I put it?
I remember women coming in and being flirtatious in order to get parts in very graphic ways.
And there is in Hollywood, people don't know this, but in Hollywood, there is a statue to the casting couch on the top of the big mall where the Chinese theater is.
There's statues of the casting couch.
There's a literal statue of a casting couch.
I swear to God.
I did not know that.
And not only that, it's on a tiled surface with little tiles of funny, witty quotes about the casting couch, the idea that you sleep with people.
Women have to sleep with people to get parts.
And that's, you know, one day somebody's going to come and there'll be a fuss and they'll shut it down.
But there it is.
And it tells you something about the industry that I think is true.
I think it is true that it is a transactional industry.
And a lot of the women who complained about Jeffrey Epstein would not have been complaining if it had been George Clooney.
You know, I mean, the fact that Jeffrey Epstein was a sick, ugly little man and a rage addict.
I mean, not that Clooney would ever do that.
I'm not saying anything about it.
But if it had been a handsome producer saying, I'll give you a part, a lot of women would never have complained about it.
And there's truth to that.
I mean, there is this transactional thing about sex in Hollywood.
It's a bunch of ugly little men and absolutely gorgeous women, desperate for what the ugly little men have, which is a part in a movie.
And so there's a lot of motivation for that transaction to go on.
However, however, at some point, one of the things that I detest about feminism is it basically tells men that they're not responsible for women in any way and the women are completely responsible for themselves.
And that hasn't really worked out that well.
I mean, Andrew Tate puts forward these videos of how you can control women.
And I look at them and I think every man knows that.
Every man knows you can do that.
You just don't do it because it's wrong.
And I think.
I actually, I take umbrage to that notion.
I don't think Andrew Tate could control me.
You know, I can see a guy who's trying to manipulate a mile away, but I was not raised by abusers.
Right.
He would pick the woman he can control, though.
Right.
So he's going to go after like the lowest hanging fruit.
You know, and to your point, yeah, of course, Hollywood's always been a transactional industry, you know, but when the Harvey thing broke, I, you know, I was having conversations with a lot of guys because I couldn't figure it out.
I'm like, listen, obviously he got, first he started as a music promoter, then he got into Hollywood, and it was obvious why.
He was not attractive.
Okay.
I'm not saying this to be mean, but he was not attractive.
He was overweight.
He was slovenly.
And he clearly has a lot of issues with women, a lot of rage.
And he got into these positions so that he could take advantage of women and get his revenge.
Say, you want to be a star?
You got to go through me.
Literally.
Okay.
But as to why a guy who had all that power would have to, as he has been convicted of, I know he's appealing, resort to it was explained to me, and it makes a lot of sense.
And when you look at the depravities that are, again, we are learning about in lower Manhattan right now, vis-a-vis Diddy, that they're the level, what you need to get a dopamine hit of power, of sexual rush, you know, it escalates.
It's like a drug addict.
Your tolerance builds up.
And so now you got to humiliate.
Now you've got to degrade.
Now you've got to force yourself.
You've got to.
That's what's going to give you the high.
Yeah.
And I do think, guys, I mean, Harvey Weinstein, I knew people who worked for him, and he was a rage addict of the first, I don't like calling him a addict.
He was a rage nut.
You know, he was a nut crazy rage.
He abused everybody.
And I knew men who worked for him who were destroyed by him.
I mean, I remember highly confident, self-confident people who went to work for him and you'd bump into him years later and they'd be trembling masses of jelly.
So God only knows what he did to the women who got anywhere near him.
And he had tremendous, tremendous power.
Crazy Rage Addict00:03:54
All right.
Well, I just, I wanted to, I just wanted to talk to somebody who's covered this because I'm baffled.
I actually am.
I cannot believe.
I mean, the one thing about Harvey Weinstein is, yes, NBC tried to kill that story.
You know, CB ABC, you know, killed the Epstein story.
But eventually the Weinstein story did come out.
And law enforcement usually does come after these guys.
I mean, law enforcement, they love bringing down big, important people.
But in the Epstein case, it just seems to be a blank.
And I'm waiting on Patel and Bongino.
Like I said, I trust them for now.
And they say that's going to happen.
But I'm just wondering, I'm looking for any insight here on how this could go so long without a single man being named.
Well, you know, I'll tell you just from being in the media for so long, since I was 17 years old, Harvey was, he was accused by a model.
This is before the whole story broke, the whole thing.
A model accused him of sexually assaulting her.
And she went to the NYPD and they wired her up and they had surveillance cams and they caught him trying to do it again.
And they were charging him with sexual assault, right?
Very few people reported on this.
We at the Post reported on it.
And what did our coverage turn out to be?
Much like one of Bill O'Reilly's accusers, remember the Luffa?
Yep.
The Luffa.
Our coverage was remarkably, who are these women?
These women are shady.
Somebody made a call.
I'm not saying it was to Rupert.
I'm saying it was to the then editor-in-chief who was very chummy chums with Harvey, you know, and probably got a call about Bill and his well-known problems with women over at Fox.
And, you know, that eventually blew up too.
So that's how that begins to happen, right?
People in power go to people in power and massage this and like assail this woman and say she's a nut or a slut right out of the Bill Clinton playbook.
The Kennedys, you said you talked about NBC killing that Harvey piece.
ABC, and I talk about it in Ask Not in the 80s was about to go to air with a prime time special about the involvement of Jack and Bobby Kennedy in the death of Marilyn Monroe.
And at the like the hour, Andrew, before it was supposed to air, Rune Arledge, then the head of ABC News killed it and it's never been seen.
Wow.
Wow.
Why?
Yeah.
Yeah, well, they did that to Joel Cernow.
He did a mini-series about the Kennedys and they ended up on some like Channel 812.
And it was totally factual.
I mean, it was completely straightforward.
Maureen Callahan, the host of the Nerve podcast and the author of Ask Not, The Kennedys and the Women They Destroyed.
It's good to see you again.
And I guess we're just going to have to keep following this story because either it's going to break in the next couple of weeks or it's going to just disappear.
It'll be really interesting to find out which happens.
It's great to see you, Andrew.
Thanks again for having me.
And yeah, I mean, we'll just keep pulling on that thread.
You know, it only disappears if voices in the culture like yours allow it, you know?
So I think we can keep it going.
All right.
And just to let you know, I'm not suicidal in any way.
Oh, they always say that, Andrew.
So, you know, best of luck.
All right.
Thanks a lot, Maureen.
Thanks, Andrew.
Bye.
All right.
Once again, Maureen Callahan, host of the Nerve Podcast, author of Ask Not about the Kennedys.
This story is making me a little crazy.
I got to be honest.
I do not understand how this stays secret so long.
And we will see if Cash and Dan show up and expose the, at least, at least start to lead us to some of the names of the people on Epstein's Island, because I just think it's a travesty of justice.
Another travesty of justice is the Andrew Clavin Show, but it's great.
So come on over on Fridays for the Andrew Clavin Show.