Ep. 1233’s Andrew Klavan contrasts Pride Month’s focus on LGBTQ visibility with WWII’s moral clarity, then pivots to Glenn Greenwald’s sex tape controversy—allegedly involving ritual humiliation and drugs—while defending conservative figures who condemned its release as a political attack. Klavan critiques Greenwald’s defense of Hamas’s October 7, 2023, atrocities against Israel’s "justified" strikes, citing Douglas Murray’s upcoming book to reject false equivalences like apartheid comparisons. The episode argues that cultural acceptance of private behaviors (e.g., fetishism) risks harming children and undermines traditional hierarchies, urging conservatives to unite against societal evils while extending grace to flawed individuals—like Trump—whose public actions still serve their cause. [Automatically generated summary]
It was on this day, 81 years ago, that over 150,000 men from the United States, Great Britain, and other allied nations landed under withering gunfire on the beaches of France to begin the brutal process of breaking the Nazi stranglehold on the once-free nations of Europe.
It is difficult now to imagine the almost superhuman courage it required for these men to slog through the bullet-riddled surf onto beaches carpeted with the bodies of those who went before them in order to fight their way inch by bloody inch into the maw of gun emplacements, the destruction of which represented only the first small step toward eradicating the most murderous regime ever to stain the annals of human history.
And that's why every June we dedicate the entire month to celebrating homosexuality.
Well, maybe that's not why.
But there must be some reason because that's what we do.
That's right, it's Pride Month.
And there is absolutely nothing Americans can be so proud of as homosexuality, apparently.
Just think of the progress gay people have made.
Homosexuality, once called the love that dare not speak its name, is now at last the love that simply will not shut the hell up.
It just drones on and on and on.
It's so great.
Really, you can't get enough of it.
On and on and on and on.
A whole month of it.
I mean, most sexual abnormalities, you just politely look away and try to mind your own business, but there's no chance of that with this one, is there?
No, siree.
On and on and on.
That's progress.
And there's so much progress to be proud of in Pride Month.
In the past, for instance, a gay man had to hide in shame.
Now he can march down the street in a pride parade, dressed in leather chaps that open behind to expose his buttocks, not only to anyone who's interested, but to the many, many, many people who really are not interested in seeing his buttocks even a little bit.
Plus, he can carry a whip to announce to all the world that he has a trauma-induced sexual fetish that prevents him from having any relationship that isn't centered on debasement, domination, and pain.
And then he can proclaim how proud he is about that, and then he can go home and wash down a fistful of antidepressants with half a bottle of gin and scream, I'm so effing proud, before pitching face forward onto the kitchen table and sinking into blessed unconsciousness.
And that's not even all the progress.
Some of you younger people won't believe this, but it used to be that if a man punched a woman in the face, he would be arrested.
Today, thanks to the LGBTQ movement, if a man wants to punch a woman in the face, he can go to the Olympics and win a gold medal.
I was so excited to hear this, I told my wife, I could punch you in the face and win a gold medal.
My ex-wife, I should say.
Still, it was a great moment.
And there's even more progress.
It used to be if a man gave homosexual porn to a child, he'd be put in prison.
Then he'd be killed by the other prisoners, because no matter how bad their crimes were, they weren't as bad as giving homosexual porn to a child.
Now, thanks to our pride, if a man gives homosexual porn to a child, it's because he's a member of a teacher's union and has a job in a public elementary school.
And man, if that's not progress, then progress is probably something else.
Like, progress might be inventing air conditioning or computers or more effective treatments for disease.
But no, for us, progress is teachers giving homosexual porn to children.
So this June, think back on that D-Day when thousands gave their lives for freedom.
Remember, it's because of them that we can spend the entire month being proud of homosexuality.
Because of them and because our elite culture has become a cesspit of decadent buffoons who have no shame.
After all, who else could be this proud?
Trigger warning.
I'm Andrew Klavan, and this is The Andrew Klavan Show.
All right, we are back laughing our way through the battle of the Titans, maybe the bottle of the Titans, depending on what's going on behind the scenes.
But the Battle of the Time Titans, if you are watching this on YouTube or on Daily Wire Plus, where we'd like you to be watching it, or if you're just watching it in your head, maybe sitting in a closet wearing aluminum foil on your face and you're receiving it through that way, just leave a comment wherever you are, and we will read that comment on the air if it's disgraceful.
It's got to be disgraceful, it's got to be degrading, personally degrading, possibly degrading to the entire culture.
And then it will fit our system here and it'll fit right in with our other content.
Our comment today is from Power of the Purse.
He said, When you played that short bit in your book backwards and showed it as the Trump happiness montage, I thought it was just a crummy edit for another cheap laugh.
We're proud of those, by the way.
I then tried it myself, and to my everlasting surprise, I've actually played the montage.
I then discovered another gem.
Get this.
If you flip the pages of the book really fast, you can see Emmanuel Macrone getting slapped in the face by his wife.
Clavin, this book is amazing.
It is amazing.
The Kingdom of Cain, Finding God in the Literature of Darkness.
Listen, I don't want to keep pushing this on you, so please go out and order it now.
You will love it.
And I don't want to test your patience because I have two books coming out this year, and they are two of the best books I ever wrote.
They really are, but I know it's plugging a lot of stuff.
I also want to plug the Daily Wire because you can't put a price on truth, but you can put a price on when you get it.
So you can save 40% on Daily Wire Plus gift memberships for Father's Day with code dad40 at dailywire.com slash gift.
All right, let's get to today's episode.
Happy Pride Month, Glenn Greenwald.
You know, Michael Knowles was once on my show back in the days when I was trying to make something of his life, an effort which clearly failed.
But we were talking about Pride Month.
He was my cultural reporter at the time.
We were talking about Pride Month.
And he said, Pride was once considered the queen of sins.
And I said, well, now it's the sin of queens, which I think was the second, my second greatest ad-lib ever.
And that bum, Knowles, put it in his book, Speechless, without giving me credit.
And I said, how could you put in that ad lib without giving me credit?
He said a friend said this, and he said he didn't want to get me in trouble, which is like closing the barn door after the conservatives have left.
And so today, what I really wanted to talk about, I wanted to talk about Pride Month because I think that the sexual ethos on the right, I don't care about the sexual ethos on the left because they're insane and they're evil, but on the right, the sexual ethos is confused.
I mean, we have different people in our, you know, in our group.
We have libertarians, we have deeply religious people, and we have in-between people and all this stuff.
And we don't really have a sexual ethos in that.
Some of the stuff that happened in this, we kind of proved that.
And I want to talk about that because I think it's incredibly important because we are the future.
As I keep telling you, you are the avant-garde.
You are going to establish the culture of the future.
So we have to know where we stand as a group as opposed to where we stand as individuals.
But of course, because of the news, it was revealed to me.
This is going to shock you, some of you.
You may even want to put your fingers in your children's ears that occasionally, not often, but occasionally, even heterosexuals suffer from the sin of pride.
I know, I know, this is shocking.
Day Blinds Deal00:02:14
But so we have to begin our Pride Month with coverage of what must be the least surprising news story of this or any other year, Chapter 1, Donald and Elon are Fighting.
As you know, I'm a pretty open book on this podcast, but at home, I value my privacy.
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Now, we all knew this was going to happen, right?
This feud between Donald Trump and Elon.
I mean, if you picture it cinematically, we all saw them in the Oval Office shaking hands.
And if their shadows had been on the wall, so the two men shaking hands, but their shadows were on the wall, are Godzilla and King Kong just destroying Washington, D.C., because these are two men.
Elon's Ego vs. Washington00:08:57
These are two men with immense egos.
They have so much money that there are no consequences for them in the real world.
I mean, it took all of Washington, D.C. to get together.
I mean, basically, Washington, D.C., the court system, and the media had to all team up on Donald Trump before they could cause anything to happen.
They still couldn't impeach him.
They still couldn't put him in prison.
The guy's indestructible, which thank heavens he's indestructible.
But still, you know, we knew that these are guys who think that their every emotion and thought is world-shaking, and sometimes it is.
And so we all like to think, I mean, this kind of tore up the internet yesterday when it really broke out, because we all like to think that the person who is doing that who is right, the person who we think is right, is the better person.
And that actually has nothing to do with anything.
I mean, we forgive people who do things that we like for things we never forgive people who do things that we don't like.
So if you're on the left and you do something bad, we just rip you to pieces for it.
And if you're on the right and you do something bad, you know, what the hell?
And there's some reason to that because who cares?
You know, who cares whether they're good people or not?
We just want to make sure that our country is run right.
That's the whole point.
So in this case, I think they both are making a good point.
They're arguing.
They started arguing.
They started arguing over is the big beautiful spending bill.
And they're both egotistical, thin-skinned billionaires who take everything personally.
And I like them both.
I think Elon Musk may be doing some of the greatest stuff they can be doing.
And I also think Donald Trump is running a great second administration.
I will add, and this is an important point, Elon Musk uses drugs, and he uses them a lot.
I mean, he uses drugs a lot.
He has told people behind the scenes that he has been using ketamine and other things.
And if you use drugs, I'm sorry, I don't care.
I don't care if it's marijuana.
I don't care what it is.
I don't care if it's too much alcohol.
You can use a little alcohol, just like you can use a little coffee, but too much is using drugs.
You have a puppet master.
You are not in full control of yourself.
Somebody is pulling the strings on you.
And people get angry.
You know, a lot of people on the right smoke dope.
I'm sorry.
That stuff is really powerful now.
And when you are under control of that, when you are, you know, stoned, you are not in full control of yourself.
So Musk leaves.
You know, he does his Doge thing.
We all admired him.
We loved him putting the terror of God into Washington, D.C. and into the agencies.
And I knew people who were threatened by that, and I felt bad for them.
But still, those agencies are like cancers.
And it's Congress's fault.
They put all these executive agencies in the executive branch that somehow the executive is not allowed to fire everybody in them.
I don't know how that works or why that works or why Congress has the power to do that.
But still, they're trying to pass this big, beautiful spending bill as a reconciliation package, which means they can pass it by a simple majority and avoid a filibuster, which would give, if they have the filibuster, that gives all the power, the deciding power, to an anti-American Democrat Party that is united in trying to destroy the West with socialism.
I don't care if they say they're moderates.
I don't care if they were elected in red states.
They all eventually get on board with the program.
We don't get a single, the Republicans do not get a single Democrat vote.
It's not true in the other direction.
You can get a Republican to do something if he thinks it's right, but you cannot get a Democrat to break from the herd.
They are herd animals.
They follow the herd and they will do that.
So they're trying to get this bill through.
And that means this small majority of Republicans and everybody has to be satisfied because if they lose even two or three votes, the whole thing goes down the drain.
So they've got to make a lot of compromises.
So Musk leaves Doge and for a while he kind of hints that he's dissatisfied and then he says, I'm sorry, the drugs start to kick him.
And he says, I just can't stand it anymore.
This massive, outrageous, pork-filled congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination.
Shame on those who voted for it.
You know you did wrong.
You know it.
Now, Trump at this point is still, for Trump, he's being very, very restrained.
You know, he's just sort of saying, well, Elon's this and that.
But this is pretty silly to me.
I mean, the bill is bad.
The bill is bad because Republicans will not cut the entirety of the Inflation Reduction Act, which is the Green New Deal in disguise, and because Trump won't let them reform entitlements, which is ultimately going to have to be done, but it's just too unpopular.
So Trump takes a little bit of this, but it starts going on and on.
And finally, Trump says this is cut five.
I'm very disappointed because Elon knew the inner workings of this bill better than almost anybody sitting here, better than you people.
He knew everything about it.
He had no problem with it.
All of a sudden he had a problem.
And he only developed the problem when he found out that we're going to have to cut the EV mandate because that's billions and billions of dollars.
And it really is unfair.
We want to have cars of all types.
Electric, we want to have electric, but we want to have gasoline combustion.
We want to have different.
We want to have hybrids.
We want to have all.
We want to be able to sell everything.
And when that was cut, and Congress wanted to cut it, he became a little bit different.
And I can understand that.
But he knew every aspect of this bill.
He knew it better than almost anybody.
And he never had a problem until right after he left.
And if you saw the statements he made about me, which I'm sure you can get very easily, it's very fresh on tape.
He said the most beautiful things about me.
Which is always Trump's first, that's always his first priority, what you're saying about him.
And now the thing is, the bill, by the way, I think it prevents a crippling tax hike.
If it doesn't get passed, it's not going to get substantially rewritten.
It might get rewritten a little bit, but if it doesn't get passed, you can forget the Republican Party.
It will be the death of this Trump administration.
We'll have the censoring, castrating, child-perverting, man-hating, white person-hating, Democrats back in office in three years.
So you choose, you choose an imperfect bill or the Democrats back.
Life is hard.
Reality is hard.
You have to choose.
So now that this gets personal, he says it's your EVs.
Now Musk says, without me, Trump would have lost the election.
Dems would control the House and the Republicans would be 51-49 in the Senate.
Such ingratitude.
Okay, now I think this is the drugs talking.
I really do.
I mean, I can't prove it, but I think this is the drugs talking.
Because when you donate to a political candidate and he wins, you should get invited to parties.
You should get thanked.
Maybe you get a favor here and there.
But basically, you don't get to buy the president of the United States.
And Trump won because there are more and more Republicans because the left is bleeding support.
That's why Trump won.
And that's going to continue happening with or without Elon Musk.
He says he's going to form a third party.
Elon Musk is not going to, if he does, I don't think it's going to go anywhere.
But look, he could convince enough people to destroy this bill, which would be really wrong.
And then finally, Trump loses his temper.
He starts threatening Musk's business.
He starts saying we're going to take away his licenses and all this stuff.
And Elon Musk says, time to drop the really big bomb.
Real Donald Trump is in the Epstein files.
That is the real reason they have not been made public.
Have a nice day, DJT.
Mark this post with the future of the truth will come out.
I'm sorry.
Listen, I've followed this a lot, the Epstein file.
I'm very upset about it.
I think it's really dastardly what's happening.
And I think that the fact that the name of the Johns hasn't come out is really bad.
I'm hoping that Kash Patel and Dan Bongino will be able to release some of that information.
I don't know.
But I'm almost positive that Trump, you know, he hung out with Epstein like everybody did.
He was a socialite and a billionaire and all this.
But ultimately, I think he caught on.
And Trump was really honest about it.
He said he went to his house.
He thought there were kids playing in the pool.
And then he realized they were girls and he walked out after 15 minutes.
Even Epstein's lawyer says that one of the last conversations he had with Epstein, Epstein says, I don't have anything damaging on Donald Trump.
All of the Democrats, my God, they wanted to put him in prison for the rest of time.
They wanted to keep him artificially alive so he could be in prison for longer than his life.
They investigated everything.
They turned over everything.
All they could find was that he wrote the wrong thing on a check, you know, and they tried to turn that into a big deal.
I mean, they did everything they could to get him.
They haven't gotten them on Epstein.
I do not believe that Donald Trump was hanging out with underage women.
You know, he didn't have to.
He liked regular women, and he had them coming out of hot and cold faucets.
So I don't think that this is a real thing.
The funny thing about Trump, I've noticed this before, I've said it before.
Trump was a New York real estate developer, and he knows once you break the law, they've got you.
So he really treads, even when he's dealing with these radical courts that stop him, he really treads lightly.
Israel's 7th October Gaza Conflict00:15:34
So remember this.
The bill has many, many bad things about it because it's a bill, because it's coming out of a broken Congress, because our system is broken, because the Republicans have just been battered by the press until they're weak and mealy-mouthed and will not do anything that endangers them.
They don't have the discipline to vote for things that will get them voted out of office, which the Democrats did have, especially under Nancy Pelosi.
She was a brilliant Speaker of the House.
I once said that to Gorka.
I thought he was going to slug me.
How can you say that about that horrible woman?
She was a brilliant speaker of the House because she got people to vote for things that were going to put them out of office in the next election.
Republicans can't seem to do that.
It's not a great bill, but it's the best we can do in a very narrow period before the midterms, and without it, we lose.
So this is, you want to talk about pride and action.
This is pride in action and also drugs.
And now let's talk about the rest of Pride Month, which has to do with sex.
So yesterday, someone texted me and said he was reading my novels and he couldn't sleep.
And I texted him back and said, when I can't sleep, no one can sleep.
And I can never sleep.
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No ease in Clavin.
I just make it look this easy.
Chapter two, yuck, part one.
Now, why do I want to talk about sex?
And people say you talk about sex all the time.
I do.
I think it is obviously one of the central motivating factors in human life.
And every culture that has a good sexual ethos thrives.
Every culture that thrives has a good sexual ethos.
Even in Augustine, Rome and Pericles in Greece, even though their standards and values and morals before Christianity were different than ours, they got more conservative about sexuality as they're in their prime.
And so did we in the 1950s, and so did England in the Victorian period.
And I think that what we have right now is an absolute mess.
And since you, the conservatives, are going to be the future.
You are the avant-garde.
You are the rebellion.
You are the resistance.
You are the people who are going to determine what our side looks like in terms of sexuality.
I think we should really think about this in a serious way instead of making big gestures that make us feel virtuous.
Eric Reid, a pastor writing for our friends over at the Blaze, he says, the sexual revolution promised the world liberation, but left us groaning as slaves.
The sexual revolution promised liberation and fulfillment.
Women were told that casting off sexual restraint would bring empowerment.
But now decades downstream from its launch, the promises ring hollow.
Unbridled sex isn't delivering freedom.
It's deepening bondage.
Pornography and casual sex will never satisfy.
Grace is available for those who believe the lies.
As it turns out, human beings are more than pleasure machines wired through the nerve endings of our genitals.
We are more than dopamine-driven robots.
We are embodied souls created by God, endowed with dignity, purpose, and the need for boundaries.
Yet our culture's sexualization continues at break neck speed.
All true, fair enough.
And the evidence is the fact, the final, this positive evidence, the fact that we are not having babies.
So we're dying out because of our sexual ethos.
Women are miserable.
They're drinking heavily.
They're just so unhappy.
They're treating themselves like they're garbage.
Instead of feminism empowering them, it's empowering them to become sluts and miserable, unhappy people.
Men are falling into despair and drugging themselves.
And by the way, the numbers are amazing.
Leftist women are the craziest, most mentally adult people in the country.
The numbers are incredible.
It's something like on the conservative side, we are much more mentally healthy than the people on the left.
And the women especially are much more mentally healthy than the women on the left, but the men too.
And so that shows you something that conservative values are good for you, right?
And so I don't care what the left thinks.
They are irrelevant.
They're failed.
And they're sinking into further irrelevance.
Let us hope to God.
But I do care what we think.
And I think there's a way to handle this I don't see enough of.
And so I'm going to break the first rule of podcasting.
I think this is enter into a forbidden zone of conversation, which is, get ready for this, moral complexity.
We should do that with reverb.
But never mind.
Let's just get to this.
Something really ugly happened, which is this Glenn Greenwald sex tape came out.
And Glenn Greenwald, you know, he's an independent investigative journalist.
His claim to fame is curating the Edward Snowden intelligence leaks that show that the NSA was spying on us, but also showed a lot of other things.
And he has some credit among conservatives for supporting free speech.
And he kind of masks as a liberation, as a libertarian, and he's gay.
And someone, we don't know who, released a tape of him with a male prostitute being ritually humiliated while dressed in some kind of girly outfit.
And I will tell you right now, I did not watch this tape because, yuck.
I mean, I don't want to watch it, but I did read a description of it, also yuck, but not as yuck.
But that's all I have to say about it.
He's being ritually humiliated by a male prostitute while dressed in some kind of girly outfit.
And Greenwald says his political enemies released the tape.
And he says, as for the content of the video, I have no embarrassment or regret about them.
The videos depict consenting adults engaged in intimate actions in their private lives.
They all display fully consensual behavior, harming nobody.
Obviously, it can be uncomfortable and unpleasant when your private behavior is made public against your will.
That's why the behavior is private in the first place.
But the only wrongdoing here is the criminal and malicious publication of the videos in an attempt to align perceived political enemies and advance a political agenda.
So first of all, that's not true entirely.
No matter how and why the tape was released, there are some non-private issues involved.
It seemed to be taking place in Greenwald's home.
And there seemed to be some drugs in evidence.
And Greenwald has three adopted children, who I think are teenaged and younger.
They were adopted when he had a much younger man that he had married.
And that man has now died.
And if you have a prostitute and drugs in your house and you have children, I don't care if they're home at the time or not, you're doing something that is wrong.
And CPS, the Child Protective Services, should come and pay you a visit.
So that's the first thing.
It's not entirely, but let's just, we're going to take that out of it.
But I just want to put that on record.
Right away, numerous respected right-wing voices leapt to his defense.
And when I say this, I'm talking about people I really like and really respect.
Megan Kelly, Scott Adams, Charlie Kirk, Bacha, Unger Sargon.
And there were some people I admire, like and admire much less.
But those are people who are highly intelligent, principled people who do great work.
You know, Megan Kelly is the best.
I've become so impressed with what Charlie Kirk has made out of himself.
When I met him, he was like a callo lad, and yet he's become a really good voice in a lot of ways on college campuses.
So these are people I respect.
And they all said, this is despicable.
You know, Glenn is a good person, and he has a right to his private life.
And the people who did this to him are just doing horrible things.
So that was the first wave of reaction.
Now, I have a problem with this as well, okay, because I'm not a fan of Greenwald's at all.
And I don't know him personally.
Maybe he makes a great, you know, dinner party companion or whatever, but, you know, he uses high-minded sound.
This is totally my opinion, but here it is.
He uses high-minded sounding positions like support of free speech and we shouldn't be spied on and religious tolerance.
But they're always in opposition to the United States and the West.
And often they're in opposition to common decency, as far as I'm concerned.
And he presents himself as a libertarian, but I suspect he's a communist, all right?
Because the guy he was married to was a Marxist.
He supports Noam Chomsky, who's a communist.
Chomsky was a very brilliant studier of languages, but he's a lunatic about politics because theorists don't do well in politics because politics is about reality.
It's not about theory.
And every time Greenwald opens his mouth, he's incredibly soft on Putin, who is a moral monster, and on Hamas, which is Iran, which wants to destroy first the Jewish state and then us.
He hates Israel.
That's one thing.
But he is very, very forgiving of Hamas, who are animals.
They are the worst.
I'm going to play a long clip.
We don't have a lot of clips today, so I'm going to play a very long clip, a minute and a half clip, of him talking.
He's talking about the fact that people talk about the war on Ukraine as if it started out of nowhere, but really it's the United States' fault and Ukraine's fault because of their policies and trying to put Ukraine in NATO and getting rid of a government and all this stuff.
Now, I've criticized the ham-handed United States policy in Ukraine, and I don't particularly like Ukraine as a country.
I think it's a corrupt country.
But Putin invaded a sovereign nation and he is committing atrocities there.
And he is a man who imprisons and kills his political enemies and kills really at will in his own community.
He's a gangster.
He is a gangster.
And so he now compares that.
Glenn Greenwald now lets him off the hook for the invasion of Ukraine and then compares that to the massacre in Israel on October 7th where people, children were shot, burned alive, women raped to death.
And this is what Greenwald says is cut one.
Most people who were paying attention to Russia and Ukraine only on the day that the Russians invaded believe that history, that history, that conflict began on October, on December, on January 22nd, 2022, because they were encouraged to believe that.
But, oh, everything was fine, everything was peaceful, and suddenly the Russians invaded in a war of conquest.
Exactly the same is happening with October 7th and the Hamas attack on Israel.
In fact, just the other day I saw somebody, I don't recall who, participating in a discussion of October 7th, and he was a very pro-Israel advocate.
And one of the points he was making was, in response to someone pointing out how devastating the Israeli bombing of Gaza was, he said, well, that only happened because of October 7th.
Israel wasn't bombing Gaza prior to October 7th, 2023.
And I have a lot of confidence.
I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that most people in the United States believe that to be true.
That only after the October 7th attack did Israel start bombing Gaza.
But if you actually look up just 2023 alone through a Google search, you will find that Israel had been continuously bombing Gaza through 2023, killing huge numbers of civilians, bombing civilian infrastructures and schools.
And have been doing so basically for every year.
So that's just distorted.
Israel didn't bomb Gaza.
It bombed Gaza back.
In Gaza, Hamas, and in Lebanon, Hezbollah has been raining missiles down, trying to make it unlivable, trying to get the Israelis to move back into the center of the country to essentially reduce the landmass of the country.
They are Iranian-backed terrorists.
That's all they are.
You don't like Israel?
Great.
You don't like Israel.
But these people want to destroy Israel first and then get to us.
They are the purveyors of a small, mean, radical, ugly philosophy that mistreats, that would, first of all, kill Glenn Greenwald for that videotape and treat women badly.
And they are not.
These are the bad guys.
I mean, how simple is it?
I mean, Greenwald and others, like Jimmy Carter, they call Israel apartheid.
Apartheid was where a minority white population cut the majority black population in South Africa out of politics, out of property ownership, out of making a good living, getting good at education.
In Israel, the minority non-Jewish population has all the same rights as the Jewish population.
There are Muslims in government at the highest level.
There are Muslims in the police, in the security forces at the highest level, in sports, in entertainment at the highest level.
It's just nonsense.
It's just a lie.
But again, I don't care whether you like Israel or not.
This is who Hamas is.
Douglas Murray, a man I genuinely like and admire and who is also gay, he has written this book called The Democracy and Death Cults.
He's coming on.
We're going to interview him in a couple of weeks, I think.
He reports on one of the recordings from the 7th.
He and other people have pointed out that the Nazis, when they committed genocide, had to get drunk and they became impotent.
They were ashamed.
They had to make speeches telling themselves why they shouldn't feel ashamed.
Not Hamas, babe.
One of the recordings from the 7th from the first atrocity video reading from Douglas Murray's book on democracies and death cults was a recording of one of the terrorists who had gotten into the kibbutz at Mefalsim, a community of just over a thousand people in the south of Israel.
In the midst of the attack, the terrorists made a phone call back to his family in Gaza.
The excitement in his voice was obvious.
Hi, Dad.
The three-minute call begins.
Open my WhatsApp now and you will see all those killed.
Oh, look how many I killed with my own hands.
Your son killed Jews.
The father replies, may God protect you.
The son is exultant.
Dad, I'm talking to you from a Jewish woman's home.
I killed her and I killed her husband.
I killed 10 with my own hands.
He goes on and on, repeating himself, boasting, dad, I killed 10, 10 with my own hands.
Put mom on.
Oh, my son, God bless you, says the parents.
Their son keeps making the same boast to his mother.
I wish I was with you.
She replies, mom, your son is a hero.
He boasts, kill, kill, kill.
Next, the man's brother comes on the line and the young man brags to him too.
I killed 10, I swear.
Hold your head up, father.
Hold your head up.
One of the men on the other end says, come back, come back.
What do you mean, come back? replies the son.
There's no going back.
It is either death or victory.
Open the WhatsApp, see the dead, open it, open WhatsApp on my phone and see the dead, how I killed them with my own hands.
Among Us: Darkness Revealed00:11:32
Those are the people that Glenn Greenwald is supporting.
And, you know, I'm sorry.
You can, like I said, I don't care what you think about Israel.
You know, it's not my country.
You know, I think it's a good country.
I visited there.
I thought it was a beautiful country.
Wonderful, free country, really fun, interesting, tough people always.
And you can say America shouldn't get involved in Ukraine.
You can say America shouldn't get involved in the Middle East.
But if you're supporting Putin and Hamas, as far as I'm concerned, the prostitute did not humiliate Glenn Greenwald half enough.
Those are immoral points of view.
You have the right to hold them, but you can't hold them and be right.
And so I think many good people on the right have been gulled by the fact that Glenn Greenwald says he supports free speech, but really it's always in the interest of anti-Westernism, always in the interest of anti-Americanism, always in the interest of anti-Semitism.
And I think that I literally do not care how he gets off.
Like I said, I think there's a big question about his children, but I don't care how he gets off.
What I care about is what he does in public, and it should not be supported by the right.
I think that this is, it is not a matter of free speech.
He has the right to say it, but he can't say it and be right.
And we should oppose him with all due force.
It's ironic.
Our military fights overseas for our freedom while we're losing it here at home.
Our phones listen to everything we say.
Tech companies track our every move online, and they're making billions off what should be our private information.
The crazy part is it's completely legal.
We can't just rely on our troops to protect our freedom anymore.
We need to defend ourselves at home too.
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Chapter 3, Yuck, Part 2.
Now, after the first wave of defense of Glenn Greenwald from the right, from kind of the, I don't know what you call him, but the prominent right, I think, there came another wave of reaction from conservative religious people.
And this itself was in two parts.
And first of all, the people who said stuff like this, many really right-wing Christians decreed, you know, these are the kind of the ex-Christians, that you can't be what they call a sodomite and a moral person in other ways.
It is so degenerate to be gay that it poisons your entire life.
Now, that's one of those statements I always point out that the devil likes to make you feel strong when he's really making you feel weak.
I'm after the sodomites.
But that statement is both factually false and logically absurd.
There are plenty of very decent people who are gay.
Now, you may think the homosexuality is such an abomination, such a sin, that they can't get past that at heaven's gate.
That may be.
That's not my business because I'm not God.
But still, in terms of our social life and our living factual life, it is simply absurd.
I mean, half of our culture is based on the thought of Socrates, who was an enthusiastic sodomite who loved the boys, who was out there with the boys.
Now, obviously, different culture, but still, that's true.
Several of the greatest Renaissance artists, including Leonardo da Vinci, probably gay, created some of the greatest Christian art of all time.
Many people who I think were heroes, like Alan Turing, who broke the Nazi code, was gay.
J. Edgar Hoover, I think I have a lot of esteem for J. Edgar Hoover, openly, basically openly gay, at least among his circle.
But more importantly, Logically, to say that you can't be sinful in one part of your life and good in other parts of your life would mean that nobody could be good in any parts of their life because we're all sinful.
So that's ridiculous.
It's just another reason to keep your judgments to yourself in places where they won't help.
However, all right, so that was, I just dismissed that stuff.
I don't know.
I get tired of nonsense.
I know a lot of people say they get tired of nonsense and then the minute they hear it on a podcast, they know in their heart it's nonsense, but they're, yeah, yeah, you know, let's go after the solomites.
However, there are also religious women who I like and respect, like Liz Wheeler and Ali Beth Stuckey.
And I take the sexual morality, the sexual morality of very religious women tends to be more censorious than the sexual morality of men.
And on just generalizing, even religious men.
And there's a good reason for that.
It's because women always pay the price.
Women pay the price of sexual immorality.
And historically, they have been the police when it comes to sexual morality.
If you go back and read novels from like the 18th century, the 1700s, stories, not just novels, but also true stories from the 18th century, the 1700s, when a woman gets pregnant out of wedlock, the men laugh.
Why do they care?
You know, they like women who get pregnant out of wedlock because they can use them, right?
Same reason we like women who take birth control pills.
We can use them at our will, you know, and there's no consequences.
The women beat the crap out of them.
The women beat them up because they know they've cheapened them.
They've made it harder for them to maintain their values and maintain their chasteness so that they can get married to somebody who will have children and then support them, right?
And then take care of the woman and the child.
So it's the women.
So I take women's ideas very seriously about this, even though I don't always share them.
So Ali Beth said she thought Glenn had been so careless.
He paid the hooker with PayPal account.
She said, here's a guy who knows all about security and all this stuff.
She thought that his being exposed was part of his humiliation fetish, which is interesting.
She said, you can't separate the private depravity from the public work.
And Liz Wheeler said this.
This is a quote.
She said, it's his private life.
He's not hurting anyone.
It was consensual.
No.
Listen to me.
To love someone is to will the best for them.
Glenn Greenwald is engaging on videotape in perverted, depraved, homosexual humiliation, cross-dressing, fetish sex acts with a prostitute.
The graphic details of what he's doing are literally unwritable.
If you think highly of Glenn, see, I don't have that problem.
But, you know, theoretically, if you think highly of Glenn, if you wish to act with love towards him, you don't indulge his perverted behavior out of tolerance.
The loving thing to do is tell him the truth.
The truth is he's abusing himself in his sexuality.
He's lying with his body.
His actions will have physical, mental, spiritual, and eternal consequences and not good ones.
Now, there's something about this that I agree with.
You know when you're doing something that's degrading you, and this kind of sexuality will degrade you.
We've all done things that degrade us, whether sexually or not.
In the Kingdom of Cain, in my book, The Kingdom of Cain, I write about a period when I was researching Empire of Lies, and the guy in the Empire of Lies has a sadomasochistic fetish, and I went on and researched that, and I got a little hooked on that sadistic porn.
You know, women being tied up and brutalized, and it was kind of a turn on, and I kept going back and back to it because I mind-melded with this character I was writing about, and I felt like garbage.
I felt that I was stuffing my head in crap, and I couldn't stop, and I felt terrible about myself.
And then God, by the grace of God, when I finished the book and I detached from this character that I had linked to for artistic reasons, I came out of it, but it was awful.
It was just an awful, you know, I just, I told my wife, I'm never writing a novel again.
And she said to me, yes, dear, sit down and eat your dinner.
Those were her literal words, but I had to recover from it.
Was really bad.
It really hurt me.
So it does make you sick of yourself.
But, but here's the thing.
Glenn Greenwald doesn't care what Liz Wheeler thinks.
He's not asking for her opinion.
Her opinion would mean nothing to him.
So while it's fine for her to tell us how she feels, and I support her in doing that, it would mean nothing for her to tell him.
And it would just mean, it would just be hectoring someone who, for no reason, you're not going to improve his life.
He's not going to change.
And I think that's bad for you.
This is the important thing.
I think it's bad for us to think too much about what other people are doing in their private lives.
I think it, because everybody's doing some crazy stuff, you know, people get crazy about sex.
They do all kinds of weird stuff.
They dress up as furry animals and they hit each other and they do all kinds of crazy stuff.
I just cannot live my life worrying about that.
And I think hectoring people, they always say in the Gospels and in the epistles, they say, do this for God's sake, do this for the sake of Christ.
And what that means, as my priest explained to me, is it means do this to support his reputation.
Act well in the world to support God's reputation.
Obey the law, not because the law is good, but because it supports, it means it will give the church of Christ a good reputation.
I think it gives the church of Christ a bad reputation to hector people when it's not going to do any good.
You know, there are times when I've said to my friends, don't do that because I thought they would listen to me.
If I didn't think it, I let them be.
You know, I just let them be because it doesn't mean anything.
You know, the Gospels never tell us.
This is really interesting.
They never tell us what Christ said when he was dining with prostitutes and tax collectors and publicans.
And while the religious people were saying you can't deal with those people, you can't dine with them.
But he did.
And I kind of doubt he spent all of dinner telling them that they stank, that they were sinful, because they wouldn't have invited him back.
Nobody else would have talked to him.
I think, and this is my personal reading of the Gospels, my bet is that he just relied on his presence in love, and that was his sermon.
His sermon was being there.
And some of them changed and followed him, and some of them didn't.
And that was their choice.
And I think that's the best we can do for people, you know.
I think that these people, they don't care.
You know, a guy like Delenn Greenwald does not respect Liz Wheeler one little bit.
If Liz Wheeler came over to my house and said, you're doing something wrong, I would listen to Liz Wheeler.
I might disagree with her, you know, but I respect her and I know her and I would think, okay, you know, this is, I understand when women tell me about this stuff, it means something.
You know, Glenn, I don't think that that's our job.
I don't think it's my job to tell Doug Murray what I think of his life.
I think he's a man.
He is a guy I totally respect.
He doesn't care what I think of his life.
I don't think he should care what I think of his life.
I don't know enough about his life.
And so I think that this is a this idea that love is a matter of hectoring people is an idea I think we could probably get rid of to our advantage.
And so I think the question we have to ask ourselves is being a group of people, conservatives, who are not all one, we're not like the left.
People Among Us00:02:17
We're not all one thing.
There are religious people among us, libertarian people among us, people in between.
And yet we have to have some kind of unified front to create a culture that we can all live in.
A culture where we're not at each other's throats, where we don't become Elon and Donald fighting when what we have to be doing is passing a bill.
When we can actually, when people can say, hey, I don't agree with the right, but I'm going to vote with them.
I'm going to live with them.
I'm going to live in their communities as one of them because they are being a way that I can live with.
I think that's important.
I think we have to do it.
And so we have to shape our attitudes about this very, very private act in a way that has a good effect on our public culture.
And that's what I'm going to close with.
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Final chapter, Hierarchy and Grace.
Hierarchy and Grace00:12:44
And let me warn you now that this is where, you know, I do want to tell you there may be some disturbing moral complexity here.
You might want to ask your children and the women to leave the room.
Individual morality.
Here's the moral complexity.
Individual morality and morality at scale, social morality, are not the same thing.
Big picture morality and individual morality are not the same.
So to begin this, there's a lot of people who keep saying, one of the things I notice is the people who talk about me, especially online and say nasty things, have never listened to the show.
They don't know what I say.
They just hear what I say from people who lie.
And those people go online and then they go on listening to them even after they find out they're lying.
I can't do anything about that.
So a lot of people say that my mind, my opinions about homosexuality have been affected by the fact that my son, who is a wonderful person and a brilliant, brilliant man, is gay.
And this is completely untrue.
I'm an artist.
I've lived my entire life in the arts and I work with a lot of gay people.
If you work in the arts, you work with a lot of gay people.
And when you work with people and you become friends with people, you learn that they are as moral and immoral as straight people.
They just are.
They are just as immoral and immoral in the part of their lives that touch me and that bother me and that are involved with me.
They are just as moral and immoral as anybody else.
What has happened to me, what has happened to me is I have gotten more conservative about this because of the depravity, perversion, and criminal activity of the LGBTQ movement.
Especially after Obrigfeld, the decision that said that there was a right to gay marriage in the Constitution, which is just untrue.
It's another one of these stupid decisions like Roe v. Wade that's going to impose on us instead of letting us shape our culture as we see fit.
It is a stupid thing to do.
And just like Roe v. Wade, it'll get more and more divisive.
Support for gay marriage is plummeting.
And I think that's because of Obriggfell, because we haven't had a chance to come to a consensus and talk it through among ourselves.
And then Obama's betrayal of decorating the White House, the people's house with rainbows, when 50% of people do not agree with that and basically saying this isn't your house anymore.
Screw you.
And then all the corporations signed on because they had to.
And now we have this Pride Month, which is essentially shoving this stuff out at us.
And look, homosexuality may be many, many things, but it's not a source of pride.
You didn't earn it.
It's not something you accomplished.
It's not something that you can be proud of anymore.
Neither is heterosexuality either.
Fidelity is a good thing.
Those are good things, things you can be proud of.
Being kind to the people you love, those are good things.
But homosexuality is not something that we should be proud of.
And I'm sick of people telling me that we all have to accept this.
They're people with perfectly valid religious objections.
I think that that is something that I completely accept.
And that decision, the idea that this is a right, has unleashed a wave of public perversion and corruption targeted at children, which should be punishable by flogging.
You like being flogged?
Great.
Let's actually do it.
Drag queen story hours, Disney putting polluting ideas in there, in Walt Disney's legacy is just disgusting.
Teachers in schools, these pornographic books in elementary schools, those teachers should be behind bars.
And I really do.
I believe this should carry jail time.
And I think, listen, that is what has changed my opinion.
My opinion has become more conservative because all of the gay people I've known and some of whom I've loved through the course of my life and whose personal lives didn't bother me, I lost friends sometimes because I would invite them over with their partners to my house and people would see them at parties and never come back to my house again because they saw them.
I took flack for this when it was not, when you didn't get a call from the, a congratulatory call from the president for coming out as gay, you know, but it just being nice to gay people cost you things.
I was supportive of people being left alone.
I think, you know, I don't want a government that knocks on your door or listens on your bedroom door.
I don't want people condemning people for things that are none of their business.
I think it's ugly.
I think it's bad for us, our souls, to do that to people.
However, when I saw how corrupt the gay movement was, I had to realize that my personal tolerance for good people who are gay and society's tolerance for homosexual sexuality as a creed are two different things.
There's another story I tell in Kingdom of Cain, and I think I've told it on the air once before.
I've worked on hotlines for people who were depressed and suicidal.
And I was on a hotline and I got a call from a young man who told me he was a Satanist.
Now, I think I can say with a full clean heart, I am 100% against Satan, okay?
The prince of evil.
Just not for him.
Call me prejudice, but that's not my thing.
But I didn't do what Liz Wheeler wants me to do.
I did not say to him, you're doing the wrong thing.
You're corrupting yourself.
You're destroying yourself.
I just listened to him.
I listened to him.
He talked about his dad.
He talked about his anger, about the abuse he'd suffered.
And I just listened to him and understood and heard his pain and condoned his pain.
Said, I see how painful that is.
And toward the end of the conversation, this guy started to laugh at himself about this Satanism because it was stupid.
He started to see it was stupid.
He started to say it was stupid and he was just doing it to get back at his father.
And I'm disguising some of the details about this because obviously it's a confidential call.
But this is a fair version of the story.
I'm changing it, but it's a fair version of the story.
And I don't know what happened to him because you never get to follow up on these calls, but at least by the end of our conversation, he started to think that maybe this Satanism was a replacement for something else.
So I didn't tell him what I believe, which is that I'm 100% against Satan and I think it's a horrible thing to get involved with.
All right.
So I think it's a 100%, it would be great if 100% of people could get married to the only other gender that there is and have children and lots of children and have a home of a happy marriage together and children.
I know that there are people who can't do it, people who won't do it, people who, for various reasons, emotional, sexual, all kinds of reasons, simply are not included in that.
And it is a bad life for me, a bad Christian life for me, for me to hate them, or even condemn them, or even love them by hectoring them or bothering them about their lives when they haven't asked me about their life.
I mean, all I can do in people's lives is appear.
That is my only power.
If somebody asks me my opinion, I tell it to them.
If somebody wants to listen to my show, I tell them all I can do is appear.
And I listen very hard.
I watch very hard the way Jesus acts.
Not the way Christians act, but the way Jesus acts.
He says in order to get into the kingdom of heaven, you should not commit adultery.
And then when he meets an adulteress, he says, I do not condemn you.
I know.
He says, sin no more.
Great.
But he says, I do not condemn you to a person, right?
He talks differently to a person than he talks to the crowd, because a person is different than a crowd.
When he talks to the Samaritan woman at the well who's married like five times and now is living with a man who's not, he doesn't condemn her.
People say he does.
Oh, well, he knows she's convicted.
She doesn't seem convicted to me.
He just is there as who he is, being who he is.
And he says, he tells her what her life is.
I take another example, put it outside of sex, Islam.
There are a lot of good people who practice Islam.
They worship God as Allah.
They're peaceful.
They're patriotic.
They're loving family people.
They're kind.
What kind of moron would come over to them and say, but don't you see in the Quran where if you just read, you know, you'd be an idiot.
It would be oppressive.
It would be rude.
It would be unkind.
It would be bad for the reputation of Christ.
But of scale, almost everywhere where Islam is in the majority and has a dominating presence, there's violence and oppression, especially of women and especially gay people like Glenn Greenwald.
I think we have to condemn that.
I think we have to say, you know, there's something in this religion that at scale becomes oppressive.
That when you let too many people into the West, they don't really do that well.
If you can let some into the West, if they will assimilate and if they will take on our values of freedom and tolerance, but if you have too many of them, they start to want to be, to turn England into Afghanistan.
That's just true.
And you can get angry at me for saying, I believe, I think that Christ is king.
I think that Christ is 100% of the truth.
I think that knowing the truth gives you more freedom and joy.
But I also believe that God has got good people in his hands.
And if they point their faces at God, I don't believe life ends at life.
I don't believe life ends at life.
And therefore, I think if your face is pointed toward God, even if you don't know his name, even if you get his name wrong, I think when you die, God is not Lucy Van Pelt.
He's not going to pull the football away.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Or maybe you're wrong.
But since we don't know, tolerance is the best thing.
The reason I don't think God is going to pull the football away is because God is not dealing with mankind.
He's not dealing with mankind.
He gives rules to mankind.
He gives the Ten Commandments to mankind.
But he's here to save you.
He's here to save people.
And just like me talking to that Satanist, I know who Satan is.
I even know what he looks like and sounds like because sometimes I go on social media and there he is.
But I was dealing with that kid.
And when you deal with an individual, you deal with him by just being there, by listening to him and by hearing him out.
And God is like that.
You know, you talk to him.
He's listening.
He's waiting for your call.
He's waiting for you.
His lines are open.
He's waiting for you to call.
And as you listen to your voice in his silence, you will start to see who you are.
And that's not my concern when that happens to you because I'm too busy doing it for me.
So how do you represent this as a society, okay?
I think the answer lies in two words that the left has taught us to hate.
Those two words are hierarchy and grace.
Some things are better than others.
Healthy is better than sick.
Free is better than slave.
Fit is better than fat.
Chaste is better than promiscuous.
The cyste is more beautiful than a banana taped to a wall.
And here's one that may just be my opinion, but I think mom and homemaker is more important than senator or astronaut.
Okay, I think that those are more important things.
And yes, ordered sexuality centered on mom and dad families with children should have hierarchical privilege in a sane, free society.
But if you're tweeting your hateful curses at people who do not fit into that paradigm, you are not doing it right.
This hierarchy and grace, giving grace to people who don't fit in the hierarchy or are not at the center of the hierarchy or at the top of the hierarchy, the left calls that privilege or hurtfulness or whiteness or whatever.
I call it the moral order.
And the moral order is true because God made the world and he found the world good and he wants us to live in that goodness with love and joy, you know.
And all of us fail to do that.
We all fail every day.
And that's why we don't judge people because we know we have to be judged on the most merciful pattern possible, the most merciful standards possible.
God's pattern, God's standards, which are the most merciful.
So we don't judge because we want to be judged as God will judge us.
What messes us up on these things are our passions, especially when we are passionately trying to show that we're virtuous.
That's where you get these guys saying the sodomites.
They're trying to tell you they're straight.
They're trying to tell you they're good people.
I don't believe them.
I think they're lying.
And so, you know, Jesus said, by their fruits, you shall know them.
So it's what people do in the society that you judge them by.
If Donald Trump does good things, as I believe he's doing wonderful, wonderful things, his private life is not so much my business.
If he brings that private life into the Oval Office, then it becomes my business, just like it becomes my business if he hurts his kids or something like that.
I think as the right, we can all have individual opinions and we can all disagree with one another, but as the right together, we should courageously describe the hierarchy of the good and condemn evil that causes harm in the world and have enough humility and honesty about our own brokenness to give grace and love to one another in the broken state we all are in.
Winning Much?00:02:22
How simple is that?
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Clavin clapbacks.
We're going to win so much.
We're going to win at every level.
We're going to win economically.
We're going to win with the economy.
We're going to win with military.
We're going to win with healthcare and for our veterans.
We're going to win with every single facet.
Necessary Evils Justify Victory00:04:44
My, oh my, what a wonderful day.
We're going to win so much, you may even get tired of winning.
Yay!
You say, please, please, it's too much winning.
We can't take it anymore.
I feel pretty.
Oh, so pretty.
I feel pretty and witty and gay.
We have to keep winning.
We have to win more.
I always loved the Klavan Klopaks bit, but Klavan Klopaks, I don't know how that got in there.
Clavin Clapbacks at dailywire.com.
Clavin with a K, clapbacks with a K. Ask about anything you want, really, and we will try and answer.
This one is from a person who wants to remain anonymous, says, your show encouraged me to get married and not be scared of embracing my feminine and maternal side.
I cannot thank you enough.
My husband and I have been married for almost a year.
I love him to death.
I know he feels the same way, but for all of our marriage, he's been rather disinterested in sex.
And so it doesn't happen very often.
We both waited for marriage.
So I thought he'd be more excited than he is.
He knows that it's eating away at me.
And so he's definitely being more communicative about it.
But I still can't stop thinking about it.
I know I can't change him.
But how do I manage my feelings about this?
I don't want to resent him.
Thank you, a devoted listener.
Listen, let me put this.
This is not normal.
And it's not your fault.
It's not because you're unattractive.
And it may not be his fault either.
You don't know what it is.
But I think that sex is important in marriage.
And obviously, if there's illness, if there's disability, you know, you might have to accommodate it in some other way.
Do whatever you can.
That's not the point.
If you are in a healthy, if you're young people in a healthy marriage, there should be sex.
It's important.
It makes you into one flesh.
It secures your bonds.
And it's a way for men, especially, I think, it's a way of expressing love and feeling loved.
And I think for women, it makes them feel that they're wanted and desired.
And they should be, a wife deserves to be wanted and desired.
What I would suggest is that he see a doctor, first of all, and see if there's anything wrong with him.
See if he's got low testosterone.
They can cure that very easily and see if there's something that is keeping him from feeling the desire that he should.
And if that doesn't work, I think that maybe he should have some therapy.
It's possible he was hurt as a child.
It's possible there's something going on in his mind that you don't know about, but it shouldn't be happening.
And you should deal with it.
You should deal with it that way.
You should say, look, you know, this is not, marriage includes sex.
That's what makes it a marriage.
One of the things that makes it a marriage.
And so you should just look into it and find out what's going on.
From Thomas, you talk about the nuclear bombing of Japan, like it was unfortunate and terrible and evil, but it was necessary.
But there's no such thing as a necessary evil.
You keep mentioning the American soldiers who were saved, but a good end never justifies evil means.
Thomas, I disagree with that entire letter.
I'm sorry.
There are such things as necessary evils.
that I think C.S. Lewis said that you shouldn't choose the lesser of two evils.
Sometimes that's all that's on the table.
I very rarely disagree with Lewis, but I disagree with them there.
War is a necessary evil.
War itself is a necessary evil.
Unions, labor unions are a necessary evil.
American soldiers were saved.
A good end never justifies evil means.
That's not true.
You know, they always say, well, the end doesn't justify the means.
If the end doesn't justify the means, I don't know what does.
I think to save American soldiers, look, no one can say this was the only way it could be done.
I think it's perfectly rational to debate it, but I don't think it's what I said was I don't think it's rational to say this was an entirely an evil.
It supposedly saved hundreds of thousands, possibly more, American soldiers' lives.
And I think that, you know, that's all there is to it.
You know, and I think like, yeah, do we want to not use those weapons?
Of course.
I would like there never to be war, but war is a necessary evil because sometimes you get attacked.
And I don't think there's such a thing as a good war either.
I think all wars are just bad.
I think that some wars are evils that accomplish good ends and that's what justifies them.
So I just don't think that's a realistic point of view.
I got to stop there and go on to Member Block where we'll talk about Mission Impossible.
And I know what you're thinking.
You're thinking, ooh, I want to hear that.
If you want to hear that, you've got to get a membership.
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