All Episodes
June 17, 2024 - Knowledge Fight
01:54:23
#934: June 14, 2024

In this installment, Dan and Jordan take in the day when the court made its decision about Alex's bankruptcy case and Alex interviewed the most important person in the world about how he's fighting demons.

Participants
Main voices
a
alex jones
08:15
d
dan friesen
46:14
j
jordan holmes
32:07
t
tucker carlson
25:31
Appearances
Clips
s
steve quayle
00:01
| Copy link to current segment

Speaker Time Text
alex jones
We are the bad guys.
Knowledge fight.
unidentified
Dan and Jordan.
knowledge fight.
Need money.
Andy in Kansas.
alex jones
Andy in Kansas.
Stop it.
Andy in Kansas.
Andy in Kansas.
It's time to pray.
Andy in Kansas.
You're on the air.
Thanks for holding.
unidentified
I love you.
dan friesen
Hey, everybody!
Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.
I'm Dan.
jordan holmes
I'm Jordan.
dan friesen
We're a couple dudes like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
jordan holmes
Oh, indeed we are, Dan.
dan friesen
Jordan.
jordan holmes
Dan!
dan friesen
Jordan.
jordan holmes
Quick question for you, buddy.
dan friesen
What's up?
jordan holmes
What's your bright spot today?
dan friesen
Why don't you go first?
jordan holmes
I suppose my bright spot is, I mean, we might as well do it.
dan friesen
The reason that I said, why don't you go first, is because I wanted to test you to see...
jordan holmes
You were expecting to see if it was going to be me or you, who was going to do it.
You were fucking...
dan friesen
But then I saw that smile on your face.
jordan holmes
You...
You checked.
You were playing poker and you checked on me and I had to bet.
dan friesen
Yeah, it was a trap.
jordan holmes
It was, it was.
Now you're raising you.
God damn it!
I suppose it's a bright spot of sorts.
dan friesen
Sure.
jordan holmes
On Friday night, last Friday, a couple days ago, during the day somebody texted me, was just like, hey, you want to go on Laura Coates Live tonight?
dan friesen
On CNN.
jordan holmes
Yeah, on CNN.
And I was like, I've never heard of any of this before.
So we did it.
And ultimately, we did go on it.
dan friesen
We did.
It was a weird day to get that text from you that someone was asking in the middle of the day while I'm trying to keep track of Alex's his day that he's going through.
jordan holmes
A big day.
dan friesen
It is.
There's the hearing that's going on.
Alex has got some big guests on his show.
It's a lot to juggle.
jordan holmes
It's a lot to take in.
So then ultimately we went on.
dan friesen
We did.
jordan holmes
It was fine.
I think we had fun.
dan friesen
Yeah, it was a good time.
I appreciate them having us on.
jordan holmes
Yeah, it was really cool.
dan friesen
There's a lot of interesting dynamics to this.
One is that the first time we did this, we didn't know that we were just going to be looking down at a camera with no monitor and you can't see the person you're talking to.
We didn't know that, but we did know that going in this time.
And I think that made it a little more comfortable.
unidentified
It was.
dan friesen
Second, you knew that someone was going to ask you to put on makeup.
And so that was coming.
jordan holmes
There's the whole thing.
dan friesen
Right.
So being a little more familiar with the territory was helpful.
jordan holmes
Sure.
And I think, well, I suppose here's the big thing.
Unfortunately, I have to give a massive apology.
dan friesen
Well, see, this is what I was going to get into.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
To my close friend, Matt Drafke.
dan friesen
I didn't want to put you on the spot, so I'm really glad that you're bringing this up.
jordan holmes
I have to do it.
dan friesen
So let me actually set this up a tiny bit.
jordan holmes
Set the stage a little bit.
dan friesen
So we were there, and we were in the green room.
And actually, this will weave into what I'm going to call my bright spot.
unidentified
Awesome.
dan friesen
So we were in the green room, and they have the show playing before we are going to go get mic'd up and sit in the room.
jordan holmes
Yes.
dan friesen
And we see that there's a panel conversation going on.
On the show.
And one of the guests is Joe Walsh.
jordan holmes
Joe fucking Walsh.
Right.
dan friesen
Noted asshole Joe Walsh.
jordan holmes
Just a piece of shit Joe Walsh.
dan friesen
So we were sitting there thinking, like, should we leave?
jordan holmes
I was, yeah.
dan friesen
Is this a decision now that we need to make of, like, can we be on the same show as Joe Walsh?
jordan holmes
Is this who we are now?
dan friesen
Or whatever.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
And so...
Here's what I would say.
It's tough to articulate, but the bright spot that I had was that I was there with you, and I had a certain amount of confidence that no matter what happens, we'll be all right.
You know, like, that security and solidness of, like, I mean, I guess if we storm out, we'll be okay, I guess.
jordan holmes
We'll be fine!
dan friesen
Or if we go on and...
You do what you plan to do.
We'll be alright.
So anyway, this leads to your apology.
jordan holmes
So my apology is that we had discussed it and...
I was like, well, now that this is real, this is possible, it's happening, I am going to say Congressman Joe Walsh is a trash dick on national television.
That's my plan, right?
dan friesen
And, of course, as your disappointed dad, I had to say no, no, no, no, no.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, you said no.
dan friesen
But very softly.
jordan holmes
But, you know, you're like, your no's were required.
They were required no's, you know.
dan friesen
Slightly just...
jordan holmes
And it was a moment where I had to decide if I was the person who was going to talk shit about that or if I was going to actually fucking do it.
And I was like...
Smiling on the inside because finally I knew.
You know, you'll never know if you're a person who can just fucking do whatever you want on TV.
You'll never know.
dan friesen
Right.
jordan holmes
Unless you get the chance.
So this was my chance, right?
And so we were very, we weren't very disrespectful, but we didn't take the TV show too seriously.
dan friesen
I think seeing Matt Welsh hurt our morale.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah.
So then we kind of, then at the end we kind of got into a role and she caught us.
I forgot!
And then we were gone!
And my chance was gone!
dan friesen
Your apology is to Druffy.
jordan holmes
My apology is to Matt Druffy.
But also I realized it was never going to go out.
It's not that live.
dan friesen
No, it's not immediate live.
There would be a way to drop it.
jordan holmes
Nobody would ever have known anyway.
And also...
The other part of this that is my bright spot is I can find no evidence that this happened at all.
Aside from the fact that my wife's mom watched it, took a picture, and sent it to me.
That's the only evidence I can find that we did this.
dan friesen
It'll maybe be online sometime.
I'm not sure.
I don't know.
I think it's such an interesting moment because...
I think you did make the decision to say that, and then sincerely forgot.
jordan holmes
Yeah, I did.
dan friesen
That was my take on the situation.
jordan holmes
I'm genuinely mad at myself.
dan friesen
And it's a very complicated position for me to be in, because on the one hand, I think that it's probably unprofessional and disrespectful, and I don't think that it's right to do that on someone's show.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
But at the same time, I was like, well, I can't be too mad.
jordan holmes
It'd be pretty great.
Yeah.
It'd be pretty great.
dan friesen
So, that was on the 17th, oh, 14th.
jordan holmes
Yes.
dan friesen
And that's what we're going to be going over today.
unidentified
Right.
dan friesen
We're going to be talking about Alex's show.
unidentified
Right.
dan friesen
On the 14th, the day of the big hearing.
Right.
The company was...
Possibly going to be put into Chapter 7 liquidation.
The judge was deciding whether or not he could personally go into Chapter 7 liquidation.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
And so all those decisions were made, and Alex had a spectacular...
unidentified
Diddy!
dan friesen
Kind of.
jordan holmes
Oh, did he?
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
So here's what happened.
jordan holmes
All right.
dan friesen
I expected that I was going to wake up on Friday.
And I was going to click over to band.video and I was going to watch a live show where Alex is on air while the hearing is happening and he's getting updates from the court or whatever and he's interviewing his big star guests, Russell Brand and Tucker Carlson.
That is what I thought was going to happen.
Instead, I wake up a couple hours before the show starts even and the interviews are already up.
He pre-recorded these interviews, and they were already on Band.Video, so he just re-aired these interviews while he went to the court.
It's very anticlimactic.
I was really expecting some kind of, like, the feeling of a standoff, the feeling of tension, and then instead what you got is fucking Tucker Carlson interview.
jordan holmes
I mean, because I kind of saw it as a New Year's Eve.
You know, like the ball is going to drop.
He's got all of his buddies coming in.
You know, they're getting updated.
Oh, it looks like we're five minutes away from losing everything.
You know, that sounds fun.
unidentified
Yeah.
jordan holmes
This is just pre-taped interviews.
dan friesen
Just pre-taped.
Yeah.
So anyway, today what we're going to be going over is the...
Alex did a little press conference, a little mini press conference before the hearing.
jordan holmes
Of course.
dan friesen
And then we're going to talk about Tucker Carlson's interview.
Russell Brand's interview was pretty boring, and we're not going to go over that.
And then there's the war room, which is when the actual announcement of the verdict from the court came out.
And that is just a long stretch of time of Owen sort of vamping.
And then Alex shows up, and he's like, this is a victory for the Infowar.
And it's kind of boring and, you know.
jordan holmes
I, you know.
I don't know yet.
I don't know.
I think I do know.
I know.
I've decided.
I know just now.
It is super sad.
But there is a part of me, the Chicago comic part of me, that says you've got to do your time admires Owen for sticking around until the bitter end.
dan friesen
Yeah.
unidentified
But...
jordan holmes
The human part of me is like, you idiot.
Get the fuck out of there.
dan friesen
It's amazing.
And he's like talking to Alex about like, they were saying that the CRO, this has all become a lot of drama with that CRO, Pat McGill.
jordan holmes
That's great.
dan friesen
And apparently Pat McGill wanted to, he was shopping around for other right wing hosts to come in and fill Alex's shoes.
Yeah.
So apparently Drew Hernandez, the baby reporter, apparently got approached and was like, would you like to take over InfoWars?
And so Owen was talking about this.
He's like, you know, I'm loyal.
I'm loyal, man.
I wouldn't work if they got rid of you.
unidentified
You didn't get offered the job under Drew Hernandez.
dan friesen
Well, but Owen and Harrison and Chase Geyser, apparently, everyone knew that they were too fiercely loyal to even approach about taking over.
So that's why they went to Drew Hernandez.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
I don't think any of this is true.
jordan holmes
Oh, man.
dan friesen
Owen was also, he had his blazer, his coat on, and he was taking it off and putting it back on.
He was heating up at various points, but it was all just kind of boring.
jordan holmes
Yeah, that sounds right.
dan friesen
So we're going to get down to business on this, this part of the 14th, but before we do, let's say hello to some new wonks.
jordan holmes
Ooh, that's a great idea.
dan friesen
So first...
Hi, Kevin.
It's Andrew, Dan, and Jordan.
Do you think it would be more beneficial for Alex to just say real, solemnly on air, imitate Alex, the globalists have rebranded 65% of our audience to try and get me off the air.
We need to start from ground zero again.
Thank you so much.
You're right now, policy wonk.
alex jones
I'm a policy wonk.
jordan holmes
Thank you very much.
Just get ready.
These are block text, my man.
dan friesen
That might be.
That might be more beneficial.
It could work.
Next, God appeared before me in a haze, eating a bag of Takis and coughing out, it's party time.
And all I got was the ability to predict time by waking up to find my clock set at 4.20 a.m.
Thank you so much for now, Balzywonk.
alex jones
I'm a policy wonk.
jordan holmes
Thank you very much!
dan friesen
Thank you.
Next, I also do the thing where I wake up in the middle of the night and know exactly what time it is, and I just want to state for the record that having a decently reliable internal clock does not mean that God is real.
Thank you so much.
You're now a policy wonk.
alex jones
I'm a policy wonk.
jordan holmes
Thank you very much!
dan friesen
Thank you.
Next, hey Tyler, a hundred people approached me at Matt's El Rancho to tell me they love you, support you, and wish you a happy birthday.
Sincerely, your favorite brother-in-law.
Thank you so much.
You're now a policy wonk.
alex jones
I'm a policy wonk.
jordan holmes
Thank you very much.
dan friesen
And I'm going to go Donkey Kong, King Kong crazy if Zero Sum doesn't hear this message in about 45 days.
Thank you so much for now, Policy Wonk.
alex jones
I'm a policy wonk.
jordan holmes
Thank you very much!
dan friesen
Thank you.
Alright, so we're going to start with the press conference that Alex had.
And it's well done.
There's multiple angles of Alex walking up to the front of the courthouse.
unidentified
Oh, God.
dan friesen
There's a person in front of him with a camera, probably one of his employees, and you can see Chase Geyser behind him following with a camera.
jordan holmes
Okay, so it's his own controlled press conference.
It's not like WB and Vi.
dan friesen
Well, this is kind of the intro.
There's a cinematic him walking to the front of the courthouse.
jordan holmes
Sure, sure.
dan friesen
And there are some camera people that I think were probably actual local media maybe.
jordan holmes
Sure, sure, sure.
dan friesen
And then there's Chase.
jordan holmes
And then there's James.
dan friesen
And I think there was...
I don't know.
I couldn't tell.
There was a few people who had mics and cameras on him, but it wasn't huge.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
It was a nice opportunity for him to talk to some cameras.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
And so we start where he starts talking about how he's been wronged.
unidentified
Okay.
alex jones
What we're witnessing here is lawfare and the weaponization of the legal system.
I was the test case for what's now being done to President Trump.
Steve Bannon and others.
This is an attempt at digital assassination.
I never said it in any of the things they claimed on Sandy Hook.
Two judges in Texas and Connecticut found me guilty by default and then had literal show trials on how guilty I was.
The billion half dollar verdict is a fraud.
The judges had already told the juries that I was guilty.
Now, we've been in bankruptcy for almost two years, proving that everything they claimed about me having hundreds of millions of dollars was not true.
Notice you don't hear about that anymore.
None of that was true.
And now, instead of wanting the money that is there, the so-called plaintiffs, who really aren't the families, it's the government that's been behind it, that's come out in court, want me silenced.
dan friesen
So Alex has been wronged by all of this.
He's doing the only thing he can, which is standing up in front of this courtroom.
Court building and telling you he's been wronged.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
So there's just such an attack.
They want to close his businesses.
They want all this destroyed.
And now they want to take his Twitter.
jordan holmes
Hell yes, we do.
alex jones
This is about the destruction of the First Amendment in America.
And now the plaintiff's lawyers, Democratic Party lawyers out of Connecticut have filed today to try to take real Alex Jones on X away from me.
Now they want my identity under the terms of service of X. You cannot.
Do that because it's my own personal property.
These people want me silenced.
It is completely and totally transparent.
And the world is seeing through this.
I was asked by one reporter earlier, is this the end?
This is probably the end of Infowars here very, very soon, if not today, in the next few weeks or months.
But it's just the beginning.
of my fight against tyranny.
As the founder of the U.S. Navy said during the Revolutionary War, John Paul Jones, when his ship about a third the size of a British ship he was fighting was starting to sink, the British officers held across on their bullhorn and said, would you like to surrender?
And he said, surrender?
I have only begun to fight.
People know I've been right.
They know what I really cover.
Tens of millions of people today want to hear what I actually have to say, not what the corporate media says.
dan friesen
The question about his Twitter is actually a pretty interesting one, and I don't know how this is going to end up shaking out.
Alex's Twitter handle is not entirely a personal Twitter account.
It's used for business purposes, and it's monetized in a way that could make it an asset in the context of a bankruptcy, which might make it something that the plaintiffs can have liquidated.
It seems obvious to me that the at Infowars handle is company property, so if you buy free speech systems, you now own that in the same way that you'd own their URLs.
Mm-hmm.
and that Free Speech Systems actually owns it, which would probably protect it from being seized in the near term, but would also mean that whoever buys the company gets control of that username.
There are a couple of ways that this could go, but if you view the Twitter handle as an asset, which you almost certainly would, there is little reason that the accounts couldn't be seized.
This exact same scenario played out in 2015 when a man named Jeremy Alcide filed bankruptcy for his business, Tactical Firearms.
In the bankruptcy, the court ruled that his business estate included personal social media accounts, which could mean that the other accounts of people like Owen, Chase, and Harrison are also pieces of the free speech system.
Whoa.
Twitter handles could be wrapped up in this.
unidentified
Oh, my God.
dan friesen
Ultimately, it probably doesn't matter too much, but it could be a pretty big annoyance.
Alex could easily start another Twitter account and get a comparable amount of followers.
Sure.
unidentified
Like, it would just be, like, kind of funny.
jordan holmes
It would be very funny.
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah, I mean, it is kind of...
jordan holmes
It would be kind of funny that Musk, like, allowing you to monetize it directly...
Is part of the reason that it is so apparent that it's an asset.
You know, like, if it was just his account that was not directly monetized, you know, like your iAccount from way back in the past when we used to tweet stuff, then it's very much people would be like, oh, don't take that away.
But now it's like, yeah, that makes blank amount per month, so that's somebody else's.
Thanks, Elon Musk, apparently.
dan friesen
It's hard to argue.
With it being a revenue stream.
jordan holmes
Way to go, Elon!
You did it again.
dan friesen
So Alex discusses some of the possible outcomes of the court hearing that he's about to go enter in.
And I realized, like, this is fucking great.
This is so good.
He's just standing in front of this courthouse.
But what he's really doing is a promo for his show.
alex jones
So the judge today...
Could rule to put this into a Chapter 7 free speech systems and appoint a trustee and begin to shut it down the next few days or weeks.
Or he could hand me back the company.
They're still going to be attacking at the state level and trying to shut it down.
Regardless, Infowars is not the operation.
Alex Jones and my crew and my listeners and my viewers and our guest is the operation.
And that's why this is only going to make me stronger.
And I will never surrender.
In this information war, and as Colonel Travis said, victory or death.
We are winning.
The people are winning.
The corporate media is lying.
And I'm shooting this right now for the start of my show today, 11 a.m. Central.
Coming up today, in just a few minutes, we're going to have the interview I did yesterday for an hour and 40 minutes with the great Tucker Carlson.
dan friesen
Oh, wow.
Let's just jump to that then, because, fuck, this is a boring press conference.
jordan holmes
Yeah, way to go.
dan friesen
Good job.
It's a way of hijacking a certain type of...
This is expected to be you giving information about the situation with the court.
Instead, you're getting your talking points out and then promoting your shit.
jordan holmes
I mean, it is a man who's turned his life into the show.
His life is the show.
It doesn't matter what part of it you're apparently in at any given point in time.
dan friesen
And there's always going to be a plug.
jordan holmes
Yep.
dan friesen
You know?
jordan holmes
Yep.
It's because next time on the show.
dan friesen
If you're at dinner with him, he's going to be like, I've got to get out of here, but I've got to tell you about my new supplement.
jordan holmes
Hey, next week we've got a really great new product coming in.
I'm your daughter.
dan friesen
So we do have Tucker Carlson on.
jordan holmes
Yes, okay.
dan friesen
And so it's pre-taped, so that makes it a little bit dull.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
Kind of.
jordan holmes
I mean, he's the most important man in the world.
dan friesen
He is.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
And this is a crazy interview.
But at the same time, it lacks the edge or the danger of it being live while the court case is going on and all that.
It would have had a certain bit of a heightened element to it that it lacks.
But it's still giving Alex some butterflies.
alex jones
Well, I've interviewed a lot of amazing people.
I've interviewed President Trump, you name it, and I never get butterflies.
But for this interview, I do.
I absolutely love Tucker Carlson.
He's changed the world.
He is the top political commentator in the world, hands down, and in his incredibly busy schedule.
He has decided to give us about an hour and a half interview here today.
And this is in the twilight of Infowars.
We can be imminently shut down.
So I can't see us going out better than with Tucker Carlson.
dan friesen
He didn't go out with Tucker Carlson.
They did his show on Saturday.
I was going to possibly cover that, but it was mostly him talking to his gold sponsor.
And it was kind of infomercial-ish.
But yeah, he didn't go out with this.
It's not a bang.
jordan holmes
It does feel like...
I mean, I've always dreamt of making an exit.
When it's time to go, and you know it's time to go, go out with a bang!
Go out and then ride off into the sunset.
Do something like that.
There are so many opportunities to go out with a bang here.
And I feel like we have...
Taken everyone and shat on its face.
Like, it is bad.
dan friesen
Sure.
jordan holmes
You know?
dan friesen
Yeah, Saturday, that breakdown of an episode, that could have been his going out with a bang.
jordan holmes
Yeah, absolutely.
dan friesen
It is going to be disappointing, whatever the bang ends up being.
And it's not this interview with Tucker Carlson.
So, I don't know.
One of the things I wanted to do was I wanted to...
Pull together a list of all of the people who have ever given Alex butterflies.
Because he talks about how he doesn't give butterflies when he interviews people and then says that this person does.
jordan holmes
This person, however, is unlike all the others.
The several hundreds of people that I tell this to.
dan friesen
Yeah.
Trump among them, who didn't give him butterflies according to this, but then he did say that when...
jordan holmes
It is the definition of, I bet he says that to all the girls.
dan friesen
Chuck Norris.
unidentified
Yep, yep, yep.
dan friesen
Yep.
So I mentioned on our last episode that Tucker is going on tour.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
And so this comes up a little bit here.
alex jones
So Tucker, thank you so much for the time, my friend.
Of course, you've announced a big nationwide tour that I'm very proud to be a small part of.
Just so much going on.
Your network is exploding.
I know you don't ever talk about Fox getting rid of you, but man, it's got to feel vindication and good that I would say you reach about 10 times more people now than when you were on Fox.
So it's great to have you.
tucker carlson
Well, thank you.
It actually felt good the first day.
I enjoy being fired, actually, because it forces you to stop doing what you're doing and take an assessment.
I'm honored to be here.
I'm here, obviously, because we're friends, but I'm really here...
On principle, because there's nothing you've ever said in your entire life or done in your entire life that's scarier or more threatening to our country than what they're doing to you right now.
dan friesen
Oh, that's dumb.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
So when Tucker announced his tour, Alex was set to be a guest on the September 16th show in Milwaukee.
As soon as this was announced, there was massive pushback against the Fiserv Forum for hosting this event, and in short order, Alex's name was taken off the website, and now the guest is listed as to be announced.
Some places are reporting that as Alex getting dropped from the event, but I wouldn't be too surprised if this was just a negotiation they had to make to not lose the venue.
Alex can come, but you have to take his name off it so the venue can pretend to keep their hands clean.
jordan holmes
To be announced when you introduce Alex on your...
On the show, yeah.
dan friesen
Three of the other dates also have guests that are to be announced later, but those events didn't have announced guests who were later retracted, so I have to assume that they're different, equally problematic people that venues don't want to be associated with.
Like, maybe Tucker's flying in Putin or Victor Orban for his show in Hershey, Pennsylvania.
Whatever the case...
This is going to be a fucking disaster.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yep, yep.
dan friesen
I'm somewhat tempted to go, but then I think about it and I realize that it would involve being in an arena full of people who aren't there as a joke.
jordan holmes
Not for us.
dan friesen
It sounds like a terrifying environment.
unidentified
Yeah, not good.
dan friesen
I don't want to do it.
jordan holmes
Not good.
dan friesen
I might do it, though.
jordan holmes
I love how dumb we all are as human beings.
Just this idea of like, okay, well...
Yeah, just because out of all of the tour dates, at least four or five of them have Nazi guests, right?
Doesn't mean we're going to cancel Tucker.
He's not a Nazi.
It's just that some of his guests are Nazis.
dan friesen
Are you not allowed to speak?
jordan holmes
You can't be like that.
Tucker also can't come now.
If you have a Nazi, you can't come even if you get rid of the Nazi.
unidentified
Yeah.
Right?
dan friesen
There is a trend through his guests that is...
jordan holmes
Not good.
dan friesen
It's not a great list.
jordan holmes
Hey, listen.
You're great, but all your friends are Nazis.
Somehow that doesn't make me question you at all.
dan friesen
No, you're good.
jordan holmes
Yep.
dan friesen
So, I do think that Tucker says something that I do relate to, though, in that clip.
And there are a couple points where he does say things that are like, eh, that's a good point.
You know, I enjoyed getting fired because, you know, it allows you to reassess.
That kind of mentality, you know, I can dig.
And that's one of the problems with Tucker, is that every now and again he'll say something like that and I'm like, eh, that's a good thought.
That's a fine human thought.
You're going to take it somewhere bad.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
But it's fine for now.
So he's honored to be there.
He's super thrilled, loves Alex, and doesn't understand why everyone hates Alex.
tucker carlson
If you had spent the last 20 years attacking, I don't know, the white working class, right?
Or the country, America, its founding documents, Thomas Jefferson, you know, you'd be lauded.
But you did the one thing you're not allowed to do, which is you attack the people in charge.
And that's why they're...
Trying to take you off the air.
And I think we should be really clear about that.
You've never done anything but attack the people in charge.
That's your crime.
dan friesen
That's not true.
So, one thing I think is interesting is, like, you could make an argument that Alex attacks Thomas Jefferson by all the fake quotes he throws around.
jordan holmes
That's a good point.
Blasphemy.
dan friesen
Yes.
jordan holmes
Maybe.
I would go there.
dan friesen
I think Tucker has a version of Alex that he likes to pretend is real, and that's who he's interacting with.
jordan holmes
I mean, I guess.
I don't know if this particular part is that or if it's kayfabe.
You know what I mean?
Is Tucker interacting with what Alex is supposed to be for the show?
Or is Tucker interacting with what he thinks Alex is?
You know what I mean?
dan friesen
I'm more drawn to kayfabe as the explanation.
But at the same time, like...
It's difficult for me to imagine that someone like Tucker could sit through an episode of Alex's show.
tucker carlson
Right.
jordan holmes
No, that's definitely true.
dan friesen
So, I don't know if he knows.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
I don't know if a lot of these people actually have ever listened to Alex.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
You know, like...
When we were on the CNN show, we brought up that Alex thinks that he gets visions from God and is fighting demons.
There was almost an incredulous response.
Is this true?
jordan holmes
Is this real?
Yeah.
dan friesen
People don't listen to his show.
They don't know that he talks about this stuff most of the time.
jordan holmes
You think he's just this, but he's actually a lot more.
dan friesen
Yeah, so Tucker has this idea from a couple clips he's seen.
Edited videos that Alex's employees have put out.
He's this truth teller who speaks to power and all this.
And I think maybe he's just fine with believing that's who he is.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
Tucker has an ability to say bald-faced untrue things with such conviction.
dan friesen
Oh yeah.
jordan holmes
And it's a type of conviction that is different.
It's not the type of active conviction.
It's the type of conviction that's like, I don't even have to question this as something that's true.
Where it's like, well, I mean, I would, oh, I truly believe, I don't even have to do any of that.
Because this is so obvious that the ground is there, Alex is a truth teller.
Like, that's so obvious.
But they are so obviously untrue.
And it is terrifying that a human being can do that.
dan friesen
Well, the dynamics of truth are definitely something that's going to be wrestled with on this interview.
jordan holmes
Well, I think I mean specifically, because of all of that stuff you can do, you can play around with your perceptions however you like.
But there is one thing that is absolutely true, and that is that Alex does not punch up.
Alex is not an up puncher.
Alex loves a good punch down.
dan friesen
If you imagine the devil.
Is who you're against.
That's punching up.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
Supernatural beings?
jordan holmes
Sure, but I'm talking about, oh, this woman who was, I mean, blank, you know, like any number of things.
Obamaphone lady, just like that idea of, like, there's always a punch down.
There's always punching down, you know?
dan friesen
He does do a lot of that.
So we get back to this idea of you enjoyed being fired.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
And Alex, he asks about this.
And we enter a segment of this interview that is really fun to look through.
Like, imagine that Tucker is insulting Alex.
He's not.
But imagine that he is.
unidentified
Okay.
alex jones
So let's go back to what you first said.
You loved being fired.
I mean, when I said 10 times bigger than you were, you were huge, but you're definitely 10 times conservatively bigger, reaching 500, 700 million people with your shows, normal shows, 50 million.
I mean, that is massive.
Instinctively, when you got unceremoniously fired at Fox, they wouldn't even tell you why.
Very Kafkaesque.
Why was that so exciting to you?
And now what is it like to be fully the captain of your ship?
tucker carlson
Well, I mean, of course, it's painful.
You know, it's always painful to, you know, have anything unexpected happen in your life because you think, you know, you can see the future.
But it's really a blessing to be reminded that you can't and that things changed abruptly, that you don't have control really over most of your life.
And you certainly don't have control over history.
So you're just sort of flotsam, bobbing along, trying to make the right decisions moment to moment.
dan friesen
You're talking to someone who can see the future.
jordan holmes
I mean...
dan friesen
It's nice to be reminded that you can't see the future, person who can see the future.
unidentified
That's so...
jordan holmes
It's so hard whenever they, like, hey, let's cut out all the bullshit and let's have a real personal conversation.
And you're like, yeah, that's how a human being would talk.
But you're right.
You can't be a wizard and also be like, ah, life is weird, right?
What are you going to do?
You're a wizard.
dan friesen
Do something about it.
I would love it if I could do magic.
unidentified
You said you could do magic.
jordan holmes
You said you could do magic.
You're a wizard.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So this goes on for a bit.
It just seems like he's, like, it would be so funny if he was talking shit, but he's not.
It's frustrating.
tucker carlson
The reason that I liked being fired, within like 20 minutes I was in a good mood, because I recognized the pattern.
It's always the bad things that turn out to be the greatest things in your life.
You know, it's getting really sick and surviving.
It's, you know, it's something you didn't expect at all that hurts, that forces you to take an assessment of what you're doing and change.
You won't change unless that happens.
I mean, there's really nothing worse for people, particularly for men, than just succeeding because it ratifies all of your decisions.
It makes you, you know, after a while, you just like confuse yourself for Jesus.
You just think, well, I'm successful because I'm just so great.
You know, I earned this.
I'm like, I'm an amazing person, unlike everybody else.
And I think it's absolutely vital for your soul, but also for your clear judgment to remember no.
I'm this sort of ungainly, ridiculous primate who lucked into some things, made some good decisions, a lot of bad decisions.
Like, see yourself in context.
See yourself as you really are.
You know, you're absurd.
We're all absurd.
dan friesen
You are absurd.
This would be a damning indictment of Alex.
jordan holmes
I mean, yeah.
dan friesen
If he were saying it in a slightly different tone, this could be so judgmental.
jordan holmes
This is the worst thing to say directly to a person's face whenever they're going through what Alex is going through.
And that he can deliver it in that tone.
Amazing.
dan friesen
The worst thing that can happen to a man named Alex Jones is being successful and thinking that makes you right about everything that you basically got.
jordan holmes
It is a list.
It is a laundry list of the worst thing that can happen to, hey Alex, isn't that what happened to you?
dan friesen
So anyway, humans, they imagine they have powers that they don't.
jordan holmes
This happens every time we do a Tucker episode.
I'm always like, is he fucking with me?
dan friesen
He might be.
jordan holmes
He can't be.
tucker carlson
Really, that's the way that people destroy themselves.
Humans are distinct from the animal kingdom in one meaningful way.
They kill themselves.
Animals don't.
You know, no dog has ever decided to kill himself.
It just never occurs to a dog or to a porcupine or to any other animal, only to people.
And they always kill themselves in the same way by imagining they have powers.
They don't mistaking themselves for God.
And, I mean, this is just the most consistent theme in all history.
And, again, men are prey to it in a way that women generally aren't.
Obviously, Tori and Newland would be a huge exception to Hillary Clinton.
I mean, there are exceptions.
The male temperament is particularly susceptible to the delusion that, you know, I'm Jesus.
And those people are the most dangerous.
And you're right, when they have the power to destroy the world, which they do, you know, they're terrifying.
dan friesen
Yeah, Alex shouldn't have nukes.
Although I do think that there's...
I guess it's not as dangerous that he just thinks God tells him what time it is in the middle of the night.
jordan holmes
I mean, stakes-wise, it's way better for all of us.
dan friesen
Sure.
jordan holmes
If God's sticking at those levels of superpowers.
dan friesen
I guess the ultimate thing that could happen is a war over daylight savings time or something like that.
jordan holmes
I mean, I could see it.
dan friesen
That seems to be the end of that road.
jordan holmes
Things are very polarized.
People get hot over a lot of stuff, and daylight savings time truly doesn't make sense.
It's insane.
It's insane.
So, yeah, why not fight over it?
It's better than most of the stuff.
dan friesen
And half of the time, it really angers people.
jordan holmes
It really does!
dan friesen
The other half of the time, people really like it.
jordan holmes
Gives you a little extra time to sleep.
dan friesen
Yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes
Makes sense.
dan friesen
So all of this, I was listening to it, and I'm like...
If he was self-aware of, like, what Alex's positions are and the kind of shit that he talks about fairly regularly, this would be insulting.
jordan holmes
This is the meanest thing.
I could not imagine being able to say something this mean to a person for this long.
dan friesen
But he's not.
jordan holmes
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
dan friesen
Yeah.
And Alex knows that he's not.
And it's very surreal.
jordan holmes
It's very weird to listen to.
It's crazy.
dan friesen
So they talk a bit about how nuclear war is imminent.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
And it's going to happen.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
And such.
And every news show should just say that ahead of every, like, entertainment.
jordan holmes
Well, that's nice.
dan friesen
Stories.
Hey, there's a premiere tonight, and here's the red carpet.
Also, nuclear war is coming.
unidentified
All right.
dan friesen
Every single show.
tucker carlson
That would be helpful.
It's shocking to me that the Today Show...
And Good Morning America and the New York Times and the Washington Post don't begin every story, no matter what the topic with, you know, by the way, we're on the cusp of nuclear war.
Because there's nothing more important than that.
But they don't.
They hide it.
alex jones
And by the way, you say one more thing.
You're very gracious when I've been on your show and just let me go on for 20 minutes of time.
We want the deep Tucker Carlson.
People love the Joe Rogan.
One of the most viewed interviews ever.
I've seen 100 million views, folks.
I've watched it twice.
My wife watched it twice.
My whole family, everybody I know has been talking about it.
And Joe's great.
He's better than I am at interrupting.
But I want to be even better than Joe.
I want to give you time to keep elaborating on this because you've really done a lot of research into this.
And I want to get back into the suicide death cult.
dan friesen
Okay.
alex jones
Sure.
dan friesen
I want to be better than Rogan.
jordan holmes
Yep.
dan friesen
Great.
Good for you.
unidentified
Good for you.
jordan holmes
What a weird interaction between totally friends.
Yeah.
dan friesen
I think that it would get exhausting if every single news story also had nuclear war is possible.
jordan holmes
I mean, I will tell you this.
I think one thing they're underestimating is people's ability to drown things out after a certain length of time.
And if you did start every...
It'd be like...
If you forced me to start every day with the Pledge of Allegiance, you know, like, that's wrong, but I've already done it before.
I could get through it.
dan friesen
You start to lose its meaning a little bit.
jordan holmes
Yeah, I'd be like, fine, I do this every morning, whatever.
I brush my teeth, I pledge allegiance, you know, we get through it.
It doesn't matter.
dan friesen
And I would even say that I bet that Tucker doesn't start all of his shows saying nuclear war is coming.
jordan holmes
He should, since that's what he's giving advice to do.
dan friesen
When he interviewed that guy who claimed that he had sex with Obama, did he start that with nuclear war?
jordan holmes
That would be a good...
And that's a good time to remind people.
dan friesen
Sure.
So one of the big things that Tucker is about is reproduction.
Human.
jordan holmes
These people are so creepy and gross.
dan friesen
They really are.
jordan holmes
They really are creepy and gross.
dan friesen
And it's based on this weird, like, it's essential that your genes pass on.
It's the only thing that matters.
jordan holmes
Totally.
dan friesen
And it's just, it's really creepy, and then it always pivots.
It always pivots into bigotry.
It always ends up, and so, of course, this ends on a transphobic note.
tucker carlson
The bottom line imperative in evolutionary biology is survival.
You know, the whole point of existence is to pass on your genes to another generation and, you know, continue the line of humanity.
So, and I think that's right, actually.
I think that is our instinct.
So whenever you see people who are pushing for the end of humanity, pushing for suicide, you know that the controlling power is, by definition, not human.
That's my, I'm trying to approach this logically here, like, what are we watching?
And I don't think that we're watching the product of human greed here, for example.
And a lot of people, and I've been one of them many, many times, say, well, the real story here, the real reason this is happening is because Larry Fink is going to buy all the farmland in Ukraine and he's going to make a ton of money for BlackRock.
Or the reason, you know...
We have so many transvestite children is because the, you know, hormone makers are making a bundle on this.
So the reason they're pushing the COVID vax is because Moderna and Pfizer are getting rich.
I mean, on one level, that is all true, of course.
But it's not what's driving it.
No one is going to survive a nuclear exchange.
The people who are pushing us, no one on the National Security Council is going to have a better life if there's a nuclear war.
Everything that they know and love will be gone, including their own children.
So this is not actually something they're doing for their own benefit, whether they know it or not.
They're being driven to do it by spiritual forces.
I mean, if there's another explanation, by the way, I'm completely comfortable having grown up a secular person in a secular country with a secular explanation for what we're watching.
If you could think of one, tell me what it is.
But I can't.
unidentified
What?
tucker carlson
I don't see any rational reason.
I don't see any actual self-interest that could be motivating the desire.
I just don't.
And I would, by the way, say that the transgender stuff is a form of mass suicide.
You're preventing your children from having children.
Therefore, you go extinct.
dan friesen
Okay.
So, of course.
Obviously, it always veers this direction.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
And I think that there's obviously a difference between, let's say...
Wanting a nuclear war and wanting people to be able to be themselves if they choose?
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
I think that there's a difference there.
tucker carlson
A little bit.
dan friesen
So I...
It's...
Fun for him to make these analogous in some way, but I think it says more about Tucker.
jordan holmes
There's something, because I read Nick Bostrom's new book, there's something about this ecosystem of, like, if you're in this white dude ecosystem of the Joe Rogans and the...
dan friesen
Intellectual dark web?
jordan holmes
Yeah, that, like, we're smart, okay?
We're in the future.
You know, that kind of thing.
They turn into eugenicists in like five minutes.
Like, it is crazy how fast they're like, well, listen, I understand.
Because this is their brains, right?
Their brains are like, I am super smart, obviously.
And what's holding me back from doing what I think is the super smart thing to do is morality.
And I'm a moral person, so I'm not going to do the super smart thing to do because that's immoral, right?
That's what keeps the super smart people from doing super smart things like eugenics.
Right.
unidentified
And then like two minutes later, you're like, well, I mean, if I was in power, I would do eugenics, obviously.
jordan holmes
But I mean, morally speaking, I'm against it.
And you're like, great.
You guys are fucking insane.
dan friesen
I think that this is something that is a problem.
with a lot of futurists, even through history.
jordan holmes
That's fair.
dan friesen
You know, there's a fair amount of that bias that plays in.
jordan holmes
It's almost always people telling on themselves of being like, well, here's what somebody super smart would do that I won't do because I'm a good person.
And you're like, you're telling me what you don't think you are.
dan friesen
Well, you know, it's Alex saying, I know the globalist plans because it's what I would do.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
That's you, man.
jordan holmes
That's you, man.
That's you.
dan friesen
So, I also, I think that when you run into this, like, it's essential that people reproduce.
unidentified
Right.
dan friesen
And if they don't, then that's unhuman.
You run into a lot of really problematic and troubling ideas.
jordan holmes
Sooner or later, you're going to get that.
dan friesen
Sure.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Some people are born with the, and are not able to reproduce.
jordan holmes
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
dan friesen
I think it's bad.
jordan holmes
And it's white dudes.
It boils down to white dudes are like, why can't we all be white dudes?
It's insane.
dan friesen
So if you are a parent, the only thing that you should want is to be a grandparent.
jordan holmes
That's the only thing I should want?
Yes.
Fulfillment, satisfaction.
dan friesen
That's why you should not accept your children if they're trans.
jordan holmes
Interesting.
alex jones
Let's bring in all the politics.
tucker carlson
Can I just say, it's not just hurting your children, it's hurting you.
Because the deepest desire of every parent is to have grandchildren.
Not just for sentimental reasons, but for biological reasons.
To see your line continue.
That is the most natural of all instincts.
So when you see somebody act against that...
Then you know this is probably not a human impulse.
Right?
This is unnatural.
This is, in fact, I would say, supernatural.
And that's exactly, in my view, what it is.
Unless you can think of some better secular explanation that we can measure in the lab.
But I can't.
And I've thought about it a lot.
dan friesen
Have you?
Because that's incredibly stupid.
jordan holmes
Yeah, that's real dumb.
dan friesen
I don't even know what to say in response.
jordan holmes
Where to start?
dan friesen
It's incredibly dumb.
jordan holmes
Is that...
What you base your life on?
dan friesen
Stop!
I can't come up with a better explanation, so it must be a spiritual force.
jordan holmes
Oh boy, that's a great start.
I think that's a good reason to do anything, really.
I can't think of a better reason to do that, so it must be because of God.
dan friesen
Probably a demon or a God.
jordan holmes
Probably a demon or a God.
dan friesen
Right.
jordan holmes
That is strange that we live in 2024.
dan friesen
Uh-huh.
jordan holmes
And he's like, eh, probably supernatural.
dan friesen
Honestly...
I distrust meteorologists and scientists.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
So for me, the only explanation for why there's rain is because of God's tears.
I mean, it's the only...
I'm a rationalist.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
And if you can give me a better example, a better explanation, and keep in mind...
I don't trust any scientist to be meteorologist.
jordan holmes
I suspect that I could, and yet it would not be accepted yet.
dan friesen
I imagine you would just reject out of hand all rational explanations in favor of maintaining your stupid one.
jordan holmes
Once again, it feels like this is a you thing.
dan friesen
Yeah, it very much is.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
So Alex asks what it's like to realize that you're in a supernatural battle.
jordan holmes
That's a good question.
That is a good question.
dan friesen
Alex, I don't know if he was expecting this, but Tucker takes a pretty classy angle.
jordan holmes
Good call.
alex jones
I've heard you talk about this some, but can you elaborate on growing up Episcopalian, you were never a Satanist.
You kind of believed in God for want of her, but weren't sure about it and liked the idea of Christianity.
But then you told me some of your private stories.
I told you some of mine.
We're not going to get into those here.
But the process of you in the last four or five years...
You know, really communicating what everybody else is feeling and seeing.
Either you're totally in the matrix and don't see any of it and do whatever you're told and you will lick the bugs and, you know, love all this evil.
And that's a smaller and smaller group.
Or there's the majority of us, really, they don't have all the answers but are trying to figure this out.
What was that process like for you coming to this realization that it's good versus evil and that there are forces other than human?
tucker carlson
Well, I mean, it's a process still.
I mean, and by the way, one of the reasons I'm uncomfortable talking about it is because I hate to sort of hold myself up as an advertisement for the world's largest faith or pretend to be a spokesman for God.
I think you bring disaster upon yourself when you do that, I've noticed.
I mean, there's a reason that preachers are disproportionately likely to get caught up in sex scandals or get addicted to porn or smoke meth or, you know, they're under attack.
The second you say, I represent a billion Christians.
jordan holmes
That's why.
tucker carlson
You are under attack.
And so I certainly don't represent a billion Christians or Christianity or Jesus or anything like that.
I'm as flawed as anybody you'll ever meet more than most.
dan friesen
You might be thinking backwards a little bit about the...
jordan holmes
Fascinating.
dan friesen
Yeah.
But also, you're talking to someone who speaks for God.
jordan holmes
Yep.
Literally.
unidentified
Yes.
jordan holmes
He has said he speaks literally for God.
dan friesen
You dumb fuck.
jordan holmes
It is insane.
dan friesen
Yeah.
Have some awareness about the situation you're in.
You're talking to God's messenger.
jordan holmes
I mean...
He was chosen when he was a boy.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
In dreams.
What else is there to say to this man?
dan friesen
Stop pretending that there's some kind of like, oh, we're...
This false humility is ridiculous.
jordan holmes
It's always funny now...
I think maybe these were different back in the day, especially through print, like when you could only read these types of interviews through a Rolling Stone or a Playboy magazine and be like, ah.
Now you watch actor-musician interviews, and it is that same kind of cadence of question of like, oh, you started this movie.
What was your process like while you were trying to figure out this character?
And it's like, oh, that's a normal question to ask.
He was literally asking him, what's it like to figure out it's you versus the devil in a cage match?
Yes.
And we're all just in there like, yeah, I know, it was an interesting realization that I came to.
That's not how you answer that question!
dan friesen
This is not some random person off the streets he's talking to.
This is a person who had the highest rated show in cable news.
This is ridiculous.
unidentified
What are we doing?
jordan holmes
I can't handle it.
dan friesen
So, Tucker describes his path towards accepting that it's a battle for good and evil.
jordan holmes
See, again, I feel like your path, once you accept that it's a battle for good and evil, your path is putting on armor and then go fighting in that battle.
dan friesen
I think an argument could be made that that is the case.
But also, you could just be an idiot.
jordan holmes
There's that.
dan friesen
And I think that's the option that Tucker has chosen.
jordan holmes
It's probably smart.
tucker carlson
And really, it was watching what's happening to the world that changed my view.
Became convinced that some of these I'd watched political debates my entire life.
That's what I do for 30 more than 30 years.
And while I disagreed with one side, I could understand their argument.
You know, they would say, well, we need to have.
I mean, I've always been totally opposed to abortion or killing the defenseless, really killing anybody, honestly, except in self-defense.
But but I could understand, you know, well, there's a 15 year old girl who, you know, was.
Pregnant.
She got raped.
And if you don't let her have an abortion, she'll never have a real life.
And, you know, I disagreed with that because I think you can't kill people regardless of the justification.
However, I thought that was a real argument.
I mean, at least it appealed to the possibility her life would be improved.
You wake up and all of a sudden people are saying, well, abortion is itself the point.
Like having an abortion is just good for the sake of doing it.
alex jones
That's right.
jordan holmes
The women say we love it.
alex jones
They say we love it.
It's a religion.
They're getting off on it.
tucker carlson
Well, it's human sacrifice.
And so, obviously.
So I was trying because I'm a little bit autistic and very literal.
I'm thinking, well, okay, what does that even mean?
Like, what?
alex jones
You were trying to find logic.
tucker carlson
This is very different.
I was.
And I'm a student of argument because I make arguments for a living.
I spent years, you know, sending my kids to school and filling the fridge with arguing.
That's what I did for a living.
So I really am interested in how people construct arguments and in their nature.
And all of a sudden, people stop making arguments on behalf of abortion and begin holding it up as just like something that was just good for its own sake.
dan friesen
So let me translate this clip into real world talk.
alex jones
Yeah.
dan friesen
Tucker didn't put food on the table and pay for his kids' education with logic and arguments.
He made a living having show business fights about the hot political topics of the day.
He would wear a bow tie and yell at people about how the Iraq War was good and justified, based on his superior grasp of logic.
He was a showman, and at that time, the media typically didn't take people like Alex all that seriously.
His type of narrative was generally seen as laughable by most folks, so most of Tucker's time was spent having sparring entertainment fights with people who had views...
and what's really happening in the world.
Yeah.
unidentified
Over time, the right wing has shifted the Overton window dramatically, and their media ecosystem essentially now operates in a way where everything that works to their benefit deserves to be taken seriously So, in the past, someone might post a video of a woman at a pro-choice rally saying she loved getting abortions, and Tucker would obviously see that she was fucking with an anti-abortion counter-protester and wasn't expressing a sincerity.
dan friesen
desire to get abortions for fun.
Right.
unidentified
But now that equation has changed, and it's no longer professionally embarrassing for Tucker to pretend to act like he thinks that that woman was being serious.
dan friesen
This has had the effect of allowing Tucker and his ilk to pretend that they're responding to things that people aren't actually saying.
In this example, there's a video of a woman trolling an agitator by saying she loves getting abortions, and now Tucker can say that the pro-reproductive health side is actually about human sacrifice.
This has the further benefit of justifying a far more extreme opposition on his side because there isn't a political solution or compromise to be made with human sacrifice.
If that's what our enemies are doing, we can't just go about business as usual.
In order to justify more extreme opposition and to paint anyone who disagrees with him as a satanic lunatic, Tucker is playing this little sleight of hand trick.
He's pretending that "well, back in my day I disagreed with them but they had an argument" kind of thing, so he can explain why the times are different, but in reality what changed is that his side has entirely eroded their standard of what they believe so long as it conforms to the shit that they want to push.
That's behind what Tucker is expressing here.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah.
I mean...
It is an interesting way of saying, when I came up, I used to argue about how abortion was wrong, morally speaking, and now I go, until the left wing shuts up.
dan friesen
Yeah, yeah.
What happened was, we used to have fun spectacle arguments on Crossfire and what have you.
We used to do that and get ratings by being sensational and cheating to each other.
It was a great time.
I kind of realize that all of this shit is way easier if you just pretend that your enemy is saying, because then that's all you have to say back.
jordan holmes
It was, I mean, if he came out, if Tucker came out and his answer to this question was just like, back in the day.
It was so hard.
We had to do research.
We had to do this.
We had to watch other people.
We had to keep abreast.
We had a staff that looked for stories that we hadn't already known about.
dan friesen
You might have to concede a point.
jordan holmes
Totally.
Sometimes I was like, you know what?
I guess you're right on this one, buddy.
We'll get you next time.
We'll see you on the next show.
I used to do that.
Not anymore.
No.
Now it is easy as shit.
dan friesen
Devil.
jordan holmes
The best thing that can happen to a man is getting success for doing the least amount of effort work possible.
dan friesen
Yeah.
unidentified
And there we go.
dan friesen
And it's such a great shortcut to just be like, oh, you disagree with me?
You're the fucking devil and you want to have human sacrifices.
jordan holmes
Okay, cool.
What an asshole.
Yeah, it does feel like everything I learned in school was a waste of my time.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So, the human societies, we have always...
Practiced human sacrifice.
Sure!
What?
jordan holmes
Okay, fine.
tucker carlson
And then I found out, because I was interested, that that is what every society has said in recorded history.
Every society, from the ones that, you know, are very famous, the ancient Canaanites, the Mayans, the Aztecs, all the Mesoamerican civilizations, but also the Western European civilizations, my own, where my ancestors lived, you know, in the Nordic countries.
They were also committing human sacrifice.
There's something about killing other people ritually.
As an offering to the spirit world that is a constant through human history.
Every civilization has done that.
And so that raises the question, why?
That's such a counterintuitive conclusion to come to.
So evolutionary biology tells us that the whole point of existence is to continue existence, is to pass on your genes to another generation, and then many more, right?
That's the assumption.
That I had my whole life.
And yet every civilization from the beginning of time has reached the opposite conclusion.
We will be happier by killing the fruit of our womb, children, and we will be rewarded by the gods for doing this.
Every single civilization has reached that conclusion without any exception that I'm aware of.
And you have to ask, why is that?
They didn't have the internet 5,000 years ago.
How are they all reaching the same conclusion?
And really the only logical answer is because some outside force was telling them that.
Right?
That the spirit world is real.
And that there are demons telling people that you will be happier, that you will be safer, that you will be richer, you'll be more powerful if you take the life of a child or of a maiden or of some helpless human being.
Mostly young human beings.
It's never the elderly who are the...
alex jones
And they like it because it's stealing the future and a child is the closest thing to God because of the potential of the universe.
So it is a wound against God.
It is stabbing God.
tucker carlson
Exactly!
dan friesen
Exactly.
jordan holmes
Exactly.
dan friesen
This is one of the leading minds of the conservative movement in the United States.
jordan holmes
That is some of the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my entire life.
dan friesen
I feel like we are so deep into a satanic panic that we don't even know what way is up anymore.
jordan holmes
I don't even know...
Yeah, I don't even know where to begin with that.
dan friesen
Yeah.
Well, I'll make a couple quick points.
jordan holmes
Sure, sure.
Take your time.
dan friesen
The dynamics of human sacrifice varied dramatically from culture to culture.
jordan holmes
No!
dan friesen
Pretending that it's one phenomenon that must have been motivated by demons as idiot shit.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
This is, like, I would say middle school level thinking.
jordan holmes
I would say that the phrase, that I am aware of, carried more weight than Atlas.
dan friesen
Yeah.
Human sacrifice was not universal or homogenous.
jordan holmes
Insane.
Insane behavior.
dan friesen
Second.
Now, this point's a little bit more abstract.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
The religion that Alex and Tucker profess to follow is quite centrally based on human sacrifice.
jordan holmes
Yep.
dan friesen
I understand there's more to the story than that.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
But come on, man.
unidentified
Don't you get that?
jordan holmes
Well, I mean, it's God's sacrifice.
See, it's completely different.
See, God sacrificed one of his people, which is completely different from human sacrificing one of their people to make rain happen.
God sacrificed one of his people to...
dan friesen
But Jesus was also made human.
It's human sacrifice.
jordan holmes
Well, I mean, sure.
dan friesen
In a sense.
I don't know.
jordan holmes
I will say, how about this?
Let me put it to you this way.
All right.
So, playing baseball, you've got these gloves on.
You've got these batting gloves, right?
And you get this really good hit.
This is the first time you've worn those batting gloves.
So, you hit that ball really well.
You think, fuck it.
I'm going to keep wearing these batting gloves, right?
You keep wearing those batting gloves.
You get hits for a while, right?
And then suddenly they stop happening.
So you're like, oh, it's got to be these batting gloves.
Maybe you unhook them and you hook them back in.
You tighten them up and then all of a sudden you get a hit again.
dan friesen
Right.
jordan holmes
So you're like, oh, you know what it is?
It's this whole thing.
See, the more you need something, the more you fail at it, the more likely you are to combine those two things together as a way to succeed.
dan friesen
No, that's just logic.
jordan holmes
Fair enough.
dan friesen
So here's another thing, using this thinking, where we might go astray.
He's saying that every culture, they don't kill the elderly.
Right?
So like, I don't know, I could use the data points that Tucker's using to be like, oh, you know what else?
Every culture has failed.
And every culture didn't kill old people, so therefore we must kill old people.
jordan holmes
We must kill old people.
dan friesen
That's the only logic.
If anybody has a rational explanation that they could give me, I'd be more than willing to listen to it.
jordan holmes
I mean, I'm not aware of a better explanation.
dan friesen
This is ridiculous.
So Alex has visions, obviously.
He sees the future.
And he talks about one instance of that here.
alex jones
And through my life, I have a sixth sense, the spirit.
It's not instinct.
It's something else.
And I've had this happen all the time.
I usually ignore it.
I've learned to not ignore it.
And, I mean, here's just an example.
And this is literally from the ether from God.
And I can play the clip.
About a month before he got fired, I said Tucker will be fired within one month.
And I believe Tucker.
He's hardcore.
He's awake.
jordan holmes
What just happened?
alex jones
The left admits it.
I predict he won't be at Fox News in the near future if he's unable to put this out.
I'm going to leave it at that.
By the way, Fox News needs Tucker Carlson.
Tucker Carlson doesn't need Fox News.
dan friesen
So Alex is psychic, and he's telling Tucker about that, and Tucker is like, yes, yes, you are.
jordan holmes
Of course he is.
dan friesen
And then he's like, okay, one of the instances of me being psychic, now granted, I usually just ignore my psychic stuff, but I didn't this time.
And I said that you would be fired in a month from Fox News.
Then they edited in a clip of Alex saying that Tucker would quit.
jordan holmes
All right.
dan friesen
That was not a prediction of him getting fired.
jordan holmes
Nope.
dan friesen
He said that Tucker wouldn't be there very long if they didn't let him put out this report that he wanted to put out.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
He was saying that Tucker doesn't need Fox as much as Fox needs Tucker.
He's going to quit.
unidentified
Yep.
dan friesen
This is fraud on its face.
jordan holmes
Yeah, that's not very psychic.
dan friesen
No.
jordan holmes
No.
dan friesen
Not very honest either.
jordan holmes
No.
It's kind of weird.
unidentified
Yeah.
jordan holmes
It's just weird.
These guys, every time they get together and they weird off of each other, it is truly like...
I mean, I don't like using their language because of the way they...
But it does feel like alien.
It feels like I do not understand how this human's mind works.
And I feel like I understand how almost everybody's mind works.
It's very good.
I like people.
dan friesen
I think it's easy to...
I sort of descriptively understand how some of this works.
jordan holmes
Right!
dan friesen
But then, like, you know, Alex wants to be perceived in a certain way.
And there's ways, like, first of all, psychic.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
Second, he's killed people, but maybe he hasn't.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
He wants to be seen these ways, and I don't understand...
Why you would do that.
Yeah.
That's the part that I don't understand.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Why are you so desperate for everyone to think you're psychic to the point where you'll talk about a prediction that you made and then play a clip of you predicting something different?
jordan holmes
Why?
dan friesen
Yeah.
unidentified
Why?
dan friesen
Why are you so desperate to be interesting?
jordan holmes
It feels scary.
unidentified
It is.
jordan holmes
How desperate you are scares me.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So, Tucker, he thinks that Alex is psychic, and that's why he's been singled out by the establishment.
jordan holmes
Trax to me?
tucker carlson
Why have you been singled out for abuse and persecution?
Why?
I'm in the business of trying to figure out, usually unsuccessfully, but why things happen.
It's not enough to say that they do.
For me, anyway, my curiosity drives me to ask, why does this happen?
What does this mean?
What is this?
The fact that you, specifically you, Alex Jones, for the last 20 years have been attacked in the way that you have been, even when you're on like cable access television, like a threat to nobody.
Why did they single you out?
And of course, it's not because you're lying.
In fact, had you lied and decided to make a career of lying.
You would be a lot richer than you are, and no one would bother you.
You'd be celebrated.
You'd have a show on NBC.
It's the fact that through you flows some things that are undeniably true.
I mean, I can't vouch for all of it.
I don't have your full, like, lifetime corpus in front of me, but I know that you predicted in detail 9-11 the summer before it happened.
Like, that's just a fact.
And I've thrown that out there many times.
Like, okay, you may hit Alex Jones, but what is that?
Like, what is that?
Honestly, like, how did that happen?
Like, that's impossible.
That's just impossible.
You know what I mean?
So, like, why don't you tell me, Alex Jones hater, what are we looking at here?
How could he have known that?
And the answer, of course, is that you couldn't have known that.
That that's supernatural.
Now, I'm not saying everything you say is like prophecy from God, but I'm saying that's supernatural because I can't think of a natural explanation.
Maybe there is one.
If there is, tell me what it is.
But that's why they hate you.
dan friesen
Oh, here's a natural explanation.
You saw an edited video of Alex and you thought that he in detail predicted 9-11.
You haven't watched the actual episode of his show.
You don't realize that at the time Bill Cooper was talking about this.
It was after the original bombing of the World Trade Center.
jordan holmes
It happened!
dan friesen
Bin Laden did that.
jordan holmes
I'm so mad every time I hear about 9-11 and people aren't like, it was the second time.
dan friesen
Yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes
I don't understand how people can be like, how could this possibly?
It's the second time!
dan friesen
Well, the bombing of the World Trade Center the first time was something that became part of conspiracy culture, and there were conspiracies about it.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
And that's why Alex was able to, or able to is such a weird...
Way to phrase it.
But why that was something that was in his vernacular of talking shit about at that time.
When he talks about using planes and stuff like that, that wasn't a prediction.
He was talking about Operation Northwoods.
We've been over this.
It's just you're an idiot, Tucker.
That's all.
You saw this video that's deceptively, manipulatively edited, and you've decided that it's proof of God speaking through Alex.
This is...
Unbelievable.
jordan holmes
You know, I would say this might be the motivation that would make sense to me considering all of the variables and where we are, right?
There is an ego that cannot get conned.
You know, like...
dan friesen
Well, Alex says he can't con an honest man.
jordan holmes
Right?
That kind of thing.
And so when you have been conned and you have that ego, you have to go into the con.
dan friesen
Alex has said it, you know, when you get the Nigerian prince, those emails.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
That he definitely has not fallen for.
jordan holmes
Listen, I can't be conned.
dan friesen
Many people he knows have fallen for them.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
And they have to keep going deeper into it.
jordan holmes
Right, right, right.
Like, I can be conned.
I know I can be conned, you know?
Like, that humility needs to be with us all.
Somebody can get you if you're not paying attention.
unidentified
Yeah.
jordan holmes
All right?
dan friesen
Not Tucker.
jordan holmes
It can happen to anybody.
dan friesen
Not Tucker.
jordan holmes
No, it can happen to you too, Tucker.
dan friesen
No way.
You know why?
jordan holmes
Why?
dan friesen
Because he's fucking honest.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
Sorry.
dan friesen
Get ready for a few more of those lives.
jordan holmes
Oh, boy.
tucker carlson
You know, but it was about that moment in 2015-16, and I just thought, well, I have an obligation to see what I think is true and to keep pulling the thread, and that happened to be exactly the moment that I...
Got a new job at Fox and had a bigger platform.
And I just thought, you know, I don't know how long I'm going to have this, but I'm going to tell the truth.
You know, with the knowledge, I'm going to get it wrong often, which I, of course, do.
But I'm not going to lie, period.
I'm not going to lie.
And let's just see where this goes.
And the more, you know, the more I did try and tell the truth, just without any caveats at all.
The bigger reaction I got, a negative reaction, people really, really hated that.
And then I just dug in and I thought to myself, I don't care what you do to me.
dan friesen
I don't care at all.
No lies.
Just truth.
Damn the consequences.
Who cares?
That's what he's about since he started working at Fox News.
tucker carlson
Let me ask you a question.
jordan holmes
Do you ever have to consciously say, okay, no lies this time?
dan friesen
I don't know.
jordan holmes
Like, I get in his idea, in his mind, right, he's saying that everybody goes into TV like, I'm gonna lie, I guess.
dan friesen
That very well may be.
jordan holmes
Or it's like everybody has an awareness of what's expected to do.
You go into the thing.
But it does feel like you just said, you know, like, ah, you know what, this time, no lies from me.
dan friesen
I was consciously lying back when I supported the Iraq war in my bow tie, I guess.
Right, exactly.
jordan holmes
Is that what we're supposed to believe?
Isn't that what he's saying?
dan friesen
I'm not sure.
Either way, you sound like an asshole.
jordan holmes
Wild.
dan friesen
So if you want to hear more of Tucker sounding like an asshole, get ready.
tucker carlson
Getting a respite from that is important because it restores perspective.
dan friesen
He's talking about, like, not being around electricity.
jordan holmes
Right.
tucker carlson
And if you have the chance to, you know, use a candle instead of an electric light or use an outhouse instead of a flush toilet once in a while, I think it's good for you.
I do think that.
alex jones
It's definitely natural.
tucker carlson
Attacked is Ted Kaczynski, but I like Ted Kaczynski.
I do.
And I don't believe in mail bombs.
I don't believe in hurting people.
I think Ted Kaczynski was insane, obviously, for doing that.
But Ted Kaczynski's analysis of technology, even if you don't buy it completely, and I don't buy it completely, but it's worth hearing.
It's worth thinking about.
There should be some counterbalance to the propaganda from Google and the power company that we'd all be nothing without electricity and...
Microchips.
Like, that's not true, actually.
That's a lie.
dan friesen
Is that a false choice that we're being given?
jordan holmes
Is it?
unidentified
Is it us or the universe?
dan friesen
I think this is stupid.
I think this is just bad thinking.
jordan holmes
It reminds me of what was it?
Chicago comic.
I think it was Drew Michael.
He had a bit.
dan friesen
Yes, he did.
About Ted Kaczynski.
jordan holmes
Just about being the like, I don't want to be the guy who reads the manifesto who's at a party and then they're like, hey, you want to talk about it?
I don't want to be that guy.
Just don't read it.
Just don't read it.
Don't be that guy by not reading it.
dan friesen
The thing that's worse than being that guy who's talking about Ted Kaczynski having a point at a party is being Tucker Carlson talking about how Ted Kaczynski had a point on Alex's show.
unidentified
A little bit more annoying than the guy at the party.
jordan holmes
The worst.
dan friesen
I think that if this is your only barometer for criticism of technology, if that's the only thing that exists as criticism of technology, then...
I just think you're not looking that hard, probably.
jordan holmes
It is wild how often it feels like they're just giving regular-ass TikTok advice from an influencer and then adding lunacy onto it.
You could see a TikTok where somebody's like, I did a hack where I used a candle, and you're like, welcome to the world.
dan friesen
I was very recharged by going to a cabin.
jordan holmes
Great, awesome.
Stay in your lane.
And then they're like, and that's why we gotta kill everybody!
And you're like, why?
What?
dan friesen
I was just imagining Ted Kaczynski on TikTok.
I think it would be interesting.
jordan holmes
I think that we are not going to have the Ted Kaczynskis anymore because of TikTok.
unidentified
TikTok.
dan friesen
You're going to be too distracted.
jordan holmes
You're too distracted.
dan friesen
The next Ted Kaczynski is going to be into dance challenges.
jordan holmes
On dance challenges.
Can't do it.
It's one of the things that we should not lament, but, you know, the past is the past.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So we're out of balance as a society.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
And then Tucker makes a good point that I actually think he doesn't believe.
jordan holmes
Okay.
tucker carlson
I'm an incredibly moderate person.
I'm a moderate person by my temperament.
I don't like radicals.
alex jones
It's clear.
tucker carlson
At all.
alex jones
It's clear that we're way out of balance is what you're saying.
tucker carlson
Way out of balance.
Way out of balance.
And I feel that way about so many things.
I think people who, you know, you want to build a business, you have to take debt in order to expand the business.
I get that.
But the idea that we're sending credit cards to college students and hooking them on debt at 28% interest and nobody knows the names of the credit card executives who are getting rich from the suffering of hundreds of millions of Americans is shocking to me.
Instead, we all hate Alex Jones because he's got naughty opinions.
Really?
What about the head of Citibank, who is hooking our entire country on credit cards and sending people into lifetime debt slavery?
Oh, shut up.
No, you shut up.
dan friesen
You shut up.
Is this a false choice?
jordan holmes
I swear to God, I will call your French Revolution bluff.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
Tucker, you want to do this?
Let's fucking go, man.
I don't give a shit.
dan friesen
Yeah, don't you hate Elizabeth Warren?
jordan holmes
Yeah, you're the coward here.
Don't you dare say that I should be going out and killing executives, all right?
dan friesen
I'm not sure he wants to kill executives necessarily.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
Yes, okay.
I do think the credit card companies and stuff have pretty predatory business practices.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
How do we deal with that?
Your political set?
I don't think so.
jordan holmes
I mean, they're the ones who are doing it!
unidentified
Yes, absolutely.
That's the idea of that your system is that system.
jordan holmes
Capitalism is the idea.
dan friesen
You hate the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
You hate this shit.
jordan holmes
Yeah, it is your concept of laissez-faire capitalism is giving children credit cards.
dan friesen
Yes!
jordan holmes
And then making them work!
dan friesen
They have the right of association.
unidentified
Yes!
dan friesen
They have the right to take their credit card, and if you don't allow these credit card companies to offer them that, then that's impeding, first of all, their right as a consumer and the right of the business.
jordan holmes
Totally.
dan friesen
So, go fuck off.
jordan holmes
I mean, yeah, get the fuck out of here.
dan friesen
There's no solution within Alex and Tucker's world for predatory credit card companies.
jordan holmes
You can't complain about it.
No.
Like, they cannot do that.
dan friesen
You just can't do it.
They're willing to change a great number of things about what they advocate for.
jordan holmes
Agreed.
dan friesen
So one thing, he's not extreme.
Sure.
Despite thinking he's fighting demons, I think we just all have to accept that that's what Tucker thinks now.
jordan holmes
This is what I'm saying.
He's able to say things with the conviction of taking so much for granted, and then you repeat back what's going on again, and you're like...
There's a man saying, I'm moderate.
I don't like the extremities.
Now, obviously, it is down to a fight between good and evil, one-on-one.
That's the entire universe right now.
dan friesen
Yes.
I think that Tucker benefits from some perception that he's a normal person.
jordan holmes
He's a psycho.
He's an insane squirrel person.
dan friesen
Because he had such a career in the mainstream of media.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
I think that he still enjoys a little bit of that buffer, and he does not deserve it.
jordan holmes
Nope.
dan friesen
He is a mess.
jordan holmes
He is full-out crazy.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So anyway, Democrats are females.
They're the feminine party.
jordan holmes
Fine.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
Have fun.
alex jones
I don't believe, I know, because they've done this before, and they're telegraphing it, they're planning to try to trigger civil unrest that they build a civil war.
They've got the movies out, they've got it all pre-programmed.
That's another one of my big concerns.
What's your view on that?
tucker carlson
Well, that's so obviously true.
I mean, you know, one of the many binaries I think in life is male, female, masculine, feminine.
And there are two ways of fighting and communicating.
And they're very different.
In fact, they're poles.
They're the opposite of one another.
One is direct.
That's, of course, the masculine form.
And the other is indirect.
And that's the female form.
And the Democratic Party is, of course, a female party.
And that's how they fight.
They fight by...
You know, they hit you in the face and scream, stop punching me!
Stop punching me!
alex jones
That's exactly what they do.
tucker carlson
A man fights.
He says, what did you do?
I'm going to kick your ass.
And then does it.
Of course.
And so January 6th was sort of in keeping with the way they approached the world.
It was a passive, aggressive action.
It was set this up, make it seem like the other guys are attacking, and then crush them.
And so, of course, they don't change.
That's who they are.
They're feline, not canine.
And they will do something very much like that, of course.
dan friesen
All dogs are boys.
All cats are girls.
jordan holmes
When you allow air out of your mouth, right?
I mean, boy, I would rather it smelled bad than sound like that.
That's disgusting.
Fucking hell.
dan friesen
I feel like I'm a little bit of a broken record, but this is just stupid.
It's not even worth arguing with, necessarily.
I have a rigid, binary approach that I take towards everything, and I slot everything into male and female categories.
Miraculously, I don't know, but the male is always better.
So crazy!
jordan holmes
Also, it reminds me of me a lot.
dan friesen
That's neither here nor there.
jordan holmes
I don't need to talk about it.
dan friesen
And I think the people who don't adhere to these structures that I've created are crazy and probably the devil.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah.
unidentified
What?
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah.
And for someone to have a 100% you are either on board with me and therefore good.
Or you are not on board with me and therefore evil.
And then to then say, I'm a moderate person, though.
I try and understand people when they have arguments.
dan friesen
Right.
Well, he doesn't lie, too.
He's so honest.
jordan holmes
Man, this guy is absolutely...
How does he exist in this...
How does your brain do that?
I don't know.
How do we all watch it?
dan friesen
I mean, maybe being away from electricity helps him.
jordan holmes
Maybe.
dan friesen
I don't know.
So look, Trump has been convicted of all these felonies.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
And he might be going to jail.
jordan holmes
Sounds deep state.
dan friesen
But Tucker has another idea.
jordan holmes
Okay.
tucker carlson
Trump is being sentenced on July 11th, so a week before the Republican convention.
And they may remand him.
They may send him right to jail.
How should he respond to that?
I mean, there are two ways to respond.
One is by, you know, Doing what they say, doing a press conference from jail, they're persecuting me the other way, and I can't recommend the better way, but there is another way, which is to say no.
Yeah, there we go.
This is a fake crime.
You never would have indicted me for it if I hadn't been challenging your power.
If I wasn't running for president, I wouldn't be sentenced to jail right now.
That's just a fact.
Everyone knows that's true.
This whole process is a sham.
I don't believe in your system.
My ancestors created this system, and you've taken it over somehow and perverted it into something unrecognizable, and I'm not playing along.
I'm not playing along.
I'm not actually going to jail, so why don't you make me?
And, you know, that is a way to approach it, and I would say that's the more direct way.
Like, why play along with this stuff?
What are you going to do about it?
But in order to...
Take that posture.
You have to be ready to get hurt.
You do.
But I would argue that you have to be ready to get hurt whenever you tell the truth.
dan friesen
You got to.
So I guess what this is implying is what should happen is Trump refuses to leave Mar-a-Lago or something like that.
And then maybe all of the patriots come and do a standoff at Mar-a-Lago or something like that.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
Because obviously, if he's...
Barricaded himself in.
The people are going to come to his aid.
jordan holmes
I don't think so.
dan friesen
I think some people would.
jordan holmes
They might.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
I mean, I don't know how fruitful that would be.
But that's kind of what this is soft pitching.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
Some sort of a standoff where they force the government to act in a violent manner in order to take him to jail.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah.
I mean...
I think people are overestimating how much people care about Trump the individual.
You know what I mean?
Trump the individual is a 90-year-old man who can't even string together sentences anymore.
Trump the idea, though, is everybody in power right now who's fucking up is going to get what's coming them.
You know?
dan friesen
Yeah.
But I think that if that person who embodies that idea were to be like, everyone come surround my house.
Some people would.
Not everybody, but some people would.
jordan holmes
Maybe, maybe.
I just, I don't know.
I don't think they care about him.
I think he's only useful.
And as long as he, like, and I don't think, I'm not talking about they as in, like, secret cabal.
I'm talking about Republicans as a whole.
dan friesen
You know what I mean?
I'm not even so much disagreeing with you.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
I think that the interest is in the ways that he's useful.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
And I think that they want to have another fucking standoff.
jordan holmes
Well, that's fair.
dan friesen
I think it would be a convenient excuse to do some kind of standoff.
jordan holmes
It would be a fun...
dan friesen
Another Bundy Ranch.
jordan holmes
Yeah, but it's at...
Another January 6th.
A Bundy Ranch is a ranch.
It's the wild.
It's the untamed land.
You can't have a standoff at Mar-a-Lago.
What, are you going to be on the tennis courts?
dan friesen
Maybe.
jordan holmes
That'd be fun.
dan friesen
Get a little exercise while you're waiting for the police to take you off.
unidentified
That'd be fun.
jordan holmes
I think it's a good place to have a standoff.
dan friesen
I think that Alex is like, alright.
I know what this implies.
So let's be really clear that you're not advocating that Trump should refuse to go to prison if they send him to jail.
Let's go ahead and...
jordan holmes
I am.
You're bluffing.
dan friesen
I think that Alex wants to be able to say that something's a false flag.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
So he wants to be careful here.
jordan holmes
Right, right, right.
alex jones
I don't think you're calling for either way, but...
tucker carlson
I'm not.
alex jones
But you're just basically putting on the table what the options are of what's happening.
tucker carlson
That's absolutely right.
I mean, I have no idea what the right answer is.
I'm, thank God, not facing a decision like that.
Trump is.
And I think he'll probably, if he's remanded to jail, he'll probably go to jail.
I'm only saying, at a certain point, it's important to acknowledge reality.
And here's the reality.
This is not justice.
This is not a justice system.
This is a husk of a system built by other people hundreds of years ago that has been taken over by new people who perverted its original intent.
It's not real.
It's fake.
It's like Harvard University.
Harvard University was the place where the smartest people in the country went.
Now it's a place where you go based on your sex and your race.
And the standards have been dropped dramatically.
And the rest of us pretend that this zombie institution is the institution that we remember.
And it's not.
And it's just important to say that.
I mean, in Zimbabwe, at the heart, at the height of Mugabe's reign of terror against whites, he used the British, effectively, Anglo justice system in place.
in Zimbabwe to crush the people whose ancestors built it.
It wasn't a real system.
It had bore no resemblance whatsoever to the system that had been in place before.
Right.
Somebody get him!
I think it's important to say that I believe in Rhodesia.
dan friesen
I was about to say!
jordan holmes
Listen, if we're going to talk about the justicism, we need to make sure that we have a whites-only justicism.
dan friesen
I mean, like, honestly, I was very shocked when this is the direction that the thought went, because...
It's more or less saying that the justice system is not white and male enough.
unidentified
Yep.
dan friesen
Like it used to be.
unidentified
Yep.
dan friesen
And this is probably because Harvard is an elite institution and it is not white and male enough anymore.
jordan holmes
Yep.
dan friesen
That's all that's behind this.
jordan holmes
Yes, it is 100% all that's behind this.
dan friesen
This is outrageously bigoted.
jordan holmes
I mean, that is like that euphemism.
Fuck-up that we did, I think, in the 90s.
That's what it was.
Because we've gotten people to not talk like shitbags all the time, you know?
dan friesen
Hold on to that thought, because I promise you we will revisit that as we deal with what honesty means in Tucker's world.
jordan holmes
Interesting.
dan friesen
Yeah, that will thematically be very important as we go along.
jordan holmes
Gotcha.
dan friesen
And it actually even is a good introduction into this next clip, which is about how important it is to tell the truth.
tucker carlson
As to what we can do, I mean, look, I'll just tell you what I've resolved to do, which I'm not going to hurt anybody.
I don't believe in hurting other people except in self-defense, and I really mean that.
That's a religious precept for me, and I'm not going to change, period.
So I'm not staging any kind of violent revolution against anybody, and I'm not going to.
And I wouldn't recommend anyone else do it either, but I'll tell you what I've decided.
But I'm going to tell the truth no matter what, period.
I'm going to say it as loudly as I possibly can, recognizing the whole time that the consequences could be very severe.
I mean, I know for a fact they could have already dealt with this a little bit.
And, I mean, actual consequences.
But that's just what it is.
Like, what did you expect life was going to be about?
Just ordering shit from Amazon?
Like, this is what it is, actually.
This is what it's always been.
dan friesen
This is what it's always been.
It's about telling the truth.
Damn these consequences.
jordan holmes
At what point in time would he call what he was doing not?
What he's saying he's going to be doing.
dan friesen
Well, I know that he's made sort of a demarcation line when he started for Fox News.
jordan holmes
When he started Fox News, right.
dan friesen
Yeah, so maybe that is kind of the beginning of his budding awareness that he's fighting the devil and that the justice system isn't white enough.
jordan holmes
You know, I mean, if you were going to go to a place that'll train you to think those things, that's probably...
dan friesen
That shit might fly there.
jordan holmes
That would be the best place to go.
dan friesen
But look, the truth.
It can get you killed.
But you must be brave.
jordan holmes
Who?
Who's killing?
dan friesen
I'm not sure.
I was just at this point, like, just really basking in how much of a pompous dick Tucker is.
jordan holmes
Yeah, he's a real prick.
tucker carlson
You really do need to get out.
I think it's easier for young people to get this because they didn't grow up in this country with the expectation that, you know, everything will always be great.
I mean, that's the country that I grew up in.
I think you did as well.
alex jones
Normalcy bias.
tucker carlson
You couldn't even imagine.
Yeah, exactly.
That's a nice way to put it.
So just, like, know that.
And if you're going to participate in it, speaking for myself in a non-violent way, know that telling the truth, and you're a living example of this, is enough to get you killed.
Telling the truth is that offensive to the people in charge because they're not just liars.
Their currency is lies.
They're about lies.
The whole thing is a lie.
And truth is the most offensive thing to them.
So yeah, could you get killed?
Absolutely could you get killed.
But maybe stop whining about it and do the right thing.
alex jones
I was about to say the alternative.
tucker carlson
I'd much rather be...
I would much rather be killed telling the truth than I would, like, die of ALS or something.
Like, we're all gonna die in the end.
I don't want to.
I'm not on a suicide trip.
I love my life.
And I love my children and my wife and my friends and my dogs and the whole thing.
But you are gonna die, so you might as well be brave.
dan friesen
Might as well be brave.
I would die for the truth.
I would die.
I would never lie.
I'm not a liar.
jordan holmes
How about this?
Here's my pitch, alright?
For a period of...
Let's say two years.
No white men are allowed to talk about how the country used to be.
For two years, no white men are allowed to say anything.
Not even like, oh, it was good or bad or anything.
They cannot share their experience of what this country was for two years.
And then, see how many experiences of people growing up in the United States have been, well, it's always going to be great.
Yeah.
dan friesen
It's an interesting thought experiment.
So, look, no lies.
No lying.
Ever.
And then Alex lies to Tucker's face.
tucker carlson
You are going to die, so you might as well be brave.
That's how I feel about it.
alex jones
And when you have that attitude, you have a vibrant, powerful civilization.
But when you're always cowering to whoever's bullying you, then the worst bullies ascend to power.
It was a famous interview with a newspaper of Thomas Jefferson.
It's where the quote comes from of all that evil men and tyrants need to flourish as good men do nothing.
The newspaper interviewer said, well, what's the level the tyrants will go?
And he said, whatever level you accept, because there's always one worse that will replace them.
Tucker, we've been going.
For an hour, you've agreed to do about 25, 30 more minutes.
dan friesen
So that underlying quote, as we've brought up before, is a misattribution that Alex is making that's actually a Frederick Douglass quote.
And Alex has recently decided to add on this, all it takes for good men to succeed is, all evil to succeed is good men do nothing.
He's decided to say that that's from this mysterious newspaper.
jordan holmes
He's adding, what is he, adding like Dylan Thomas and Frederick Douglass together?
dan friesen
It's complete bullshit.
And what he's doing is fine.
It's what Alex does.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
But it's so embarrassing for Tucker.
It should be.
You should be like, hold on now, Alex.
This is a little much.
jordan holmes
Of all the things he is, educated is one of them.
So at the very least, you should be able to be like, hey, let's just not do that.
dan friesen
No, we'll allow Alex to play this game.
jordan holmes
Whatever.
dan friesen
So I think that Tucker has the same vein as that...
Credit card companies are taking advantage of young people.
I think that's a good criticism.
I don't think you have an answer for that.
I think that your policies make things worse.
But that is good.
And I think that he has another good point here, but it's also ridiculous coming from him.
tucker carlson
It does seem pretty clear to me that generational affluence has made America a lot weaker.
I'm not for poverty.
I'm not saying it's a good thing to not have enough to eat.
alex jones
But meritocracy has been murdered.
tucker carlson
Well, meritocracy is long gone, but generational affluence is bad for families and it's bad for countries.
And I think one of the things we're seeing now is that people just feel like, just make the pain stop.
I'm super, super comfortable.
I don't want to be uncomfortable.
And I get that.
I feel the same way, by the way.
I'm not judging anyone.
I just want to be comfortable.
I get it.
But that's not sort of an option right now, actually.
Being comfortable is not on the menu.
You're going to be uncomfortable.
You're stagnant.
Yeah, and it's better to choose dignity, I think.
It's better to be dignified about it.
And what does that mean specifically?
It means saying what you think is true, because you're not a slave.
You're a human being.
You were made by God, not the Biden administration.
dan friesen
Yeah, tell the truth, because you're not Biden's puppet.
What a credible position, though, for Tucker to have, this noted trust fund baby and millionaire at birth, generational affluence.
That is what gave Tucker the ability to have a giant place in the woods and have a platform to say his idiotic bullshit on.
Without generational affluence, he might as well be Chase fucking Geyser.
He might as well be Chase from the space.
The circumstances of Tucker's life hinge entirely on generational affluence.
And if he thinks that it's something that makes people weak...
He's talking about himself.
All of this is him talking about himself, not other people.
He wants the pain to stop or whatever, and that pain is other people struggling for rights or acceptance or anything like that.
He wants that annoyance that he has as a really rich person to stop, and so that's why he wants Trump to shut that off.
jordan holmes
If I was going to, like, analyze...
Everything that we've heard him say so far as purely just like he'd written it down and I have no context whatsoever.
I would say to you that this is a man who is essentially saying, if I don't get my way, I feel like I want to kill myself all the time.
dan friesen
No, if I don't get my way, I feel like I want to kill everyone else.
jordan holmes
Right, right, right.
But I mean, you know, that's how he's...
dan friesen
Yeah, for freedom.
unidentified
Yeah.
jordan holmes
Yep.
dan friesen
Okay, buddy.
jordan holmes
I am going to take my ball and go home, and in this case, that means violence to you, the poors.
dan friesen
So if I were to assess what Tucker's been saying and what most of this is about, I would say that it's mostly about how you gotta tell the truth.
And it is important not to lie.
jordan holmes
You know, when you repeat it's important to tell the truth, you are revealing how little you give a shit about the truth.
dan friesen
Or how much.
tucker carlson
Most days, I would rather just sit in bed and eat...
French toast and read P.G. Woodhouse novels with my dogs, okay?
That's kind of my preferred, you know what I mean, day?
alex jones
Sounds good, I know, believe me.
tucker carlson
Because I'm lazy and self-indulgent.
No, I am.
But that's just not a choice.
We don't have that choice.
So be a man about it.
Don't lie to yourself.
Am I going to go along with the deception and become something less than human?
Or am I going to say, in a gentle, non-violent, but persistent way, no, I'm not doing that.
I'm not taking your COVID vax.
I'm not going to pretend boys can become girls.
I'm not going to, you know, mouth the slogans about Vladimir Putin and Zelensky that you're telling me to mouth.
I'm just not going to do that.
And there's nothing you can do to me that will make me do that.
alex jones
That's beautiful, Tucker.
tucker carlson
Including death, and I mean it.
dan friesen
Okay, so I get it.
You are anti-vax, anti-trans, and support Russia to the point of dying, I guess.
In theory.
And that's truth to you.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
That's all you're saying, really.
jordan holmes
Right.
I mean, that's a life.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
jordan holmes
To live your life like that.
I mean, I guess this is the thing, though, right?
Like, you can believe absolute nonsense like that because you're super wealthy and you live, you know, like, there's...
If you have to care about another human being who has their own stuff going on, then they might be like, hey, don't talk like that to me.
And you might be like, I've grown as a person.
Now we can continue to be friends.
But he doesn't have that.
He just has no human beings in his life who will ever be like...
You're a fucking idiot.
dan friesen
It's doubtful.
It's doubtful.
jordan holmes
Stop this.
dan friesen
Yeah, or else if anyone does say that, they're probably possessed by a demon.
jordan holmes
Exactly.
unidentified
Who cares?
jordan holmes
Yeah, he can't.
There's just no way.
dan friesen
Now, I want to address a very important thing here.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
Alex would never understand the humor of Woodhouse, and...
jordan holmes
I can't believe Tucker does either.
dan friesen
Tucker, like...
Bernie Wooster is a parody of people like Tucker.
jordan holmes
Exactly.
dan friesen
I don't know.
It's strange.
jordan holmes
I don't think these people can understand humor, and that's part of why we are where we are.
dan friesen
It might be.
So, here's the deal.
The demons.
They want to kill humans.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
Because we're made in God's image.
jordan holmes
I guess.
dan friesen
And you've got to be honest!
Don't lie.
Never lie.
jordan holmes
They gotta write something down.
They need a decision tree or something because their motivations are not great.
dan friesen
No.
And they're lies.
tucker carlson
Mankind, people were created in God's image.
We're not gods, but God created us in his image.
So if your program is to oppose God, then by definition, you're going to want to kill all the people.
So it makes sense theologically.
It makes sense intuitively.
And I sincerely believe that that is exactly what's happening.
So how do you respond to it?
Well, with bravery, without fear.
Like, again, I don't know what everyone's so afraid of.
It's so weird.
I mean, I'm trying not to be judgy.
I mean, there are things worth being afraid of, I guess.
But telling the truth and standing firm in what you know to be true?
There's no reason to fear that.
Like, what's the worst thing?
Like, if we're living in a totalitarian moment where the aim is to kill people, okay?
You already know how it's gonna end if you don't do anything.
So why not just smile and tell the truth?
dan friesen
Tell the truth.
Be a truthful person.
Come on in.
The water is fine.
jordan holmes
This is what I'm saying.
This is what I'm saying.
Two years.
No white men are allowed to talk about the past.
And then all of a sudden you hear stuff like...
Yeah, we used to worry about if our toilet would flush because we couldn't afford things unless we lied for money.
That's how it works.
You think I care if you have a good McDonald's meal?
And yet I said, have a good day every fucking time.
dan friesen
That's a lie.
You can't lie.
See, I was really struggling with this up till this point because it's so incessant.
The bullshit.
Self-glorifying, I just tell the truth.
I just tell the truth.
And so this next clip, mic down for this, because this, I experienced like fucking whiplash.
And it's outrageous.
tucker carlson
But what I didn't mention, and shame on me for not, is the upside of the moment, which is the people.
I mean, you wind up meeting these people in so many cases.
I had dinner last night or two nights ago in my barn with somebody, a well-known person, who I never in a million years thought I would ever have a meal with.
And it turns out we had everything in common.
And this is one of the people you described, an awake person who was not where he expected to be, reached conclusions he never thought he would reach.
He's got opinions that were repugnant to him 10 years ago, as do I. And how beautiful is that?
unidentified
Because...
tucker carlson
People like that are liberated from the burden of having to pretend they don't—it's a huge burden to lie.
It's a massive—I mean, all of us lie, you know, and if you caught me doing something terrible today, I probably would lie, you know, but it would be a huge burden.
And once you feel like, well, I don't have to do that anymore, like there's no reason to do that, why would I do that?
And I'm just not going to.
Ah, you're just freer.
Like, that is actual liberation?
dan friesen
This is a person with a really fucked up relationship with honesty and sincerity.
But this is where we loop back to what you were talking about earlier with the euphemism stuff.
Because I'm going to translate what Tucker just said.
jordan holmes
Go for it.
dan friesen
Historically, the right-wing conservative movement that Tucker's been a part of is based largely on weaponizing white agreement.
It's always generally been about making white people think that things like civil rights were actually an attack on the white male grasp on power in this country.
However, over time, it became unfashionable or even looked down upon to just be open about having these positions.
And as society gradually became more open and accepting, it became politically and culturally detrimental to be open.
In response, the right-wing created a language of euphemism where they're still able to send largely the same message, but hide behind respectable-sounding words.
It was pretty much perfectly laid out by Republican strategist and Roger Stone's old co-worker, Lee Atwater, in a 1981 interview.
Quote, In 1968, you can't say N. That hurts you.
Backfires.
So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights, and all that stuff, and you're getting so abstract.
Now you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things, and a byproduct of them is blacks get hurt worse than whites.
We want to cut this.
This is so much more abstract than the busing thing and a hell of a lot more abstract than NN.
unidentified
This is an embodiment of the strategy that the GOP has used over the past decades to appeal to people on the basis of feelings of racial aggrievement while pretending that what they're doing is some high-minded political stuff.
dan friesen
The problem is that this is kind of exhausting and a lot of people can see through it.
So when Tucker says that it's a freeing experience to not have to lie anymore, he means that it's a freeing experience to stop pretending that he doesn't want to go back to the world that Lee Atwater was describing in 1954.
This is what he means when he says that it's important to tell the truth.
For him, the truth is that the world should be run entirely by and for white heterosexual Christian men.
Telling the truth isn't about actually telling the truth, damn the consequences, because in that very clip he...
Clearly says that he's fine with lying if it helps him evade responsibility for the bad things that he does.
Honesty doesn't mean honesty here.
It means adherence to a particular worldview.
It's exhausting to be a bigot and pretend that you're not for the sake of respectability.
And you don't have to.
That's what he's saying.
jordan holmes
Yeah, that is exactly what he said.
dan friesen
That's the entire construct of honesty that he is defending and standing up for in this interview.
It has nothing to do with...
Accepting the consequences of telling the truth even when it's painful and as a practice being honest.
unidentified
Yep.
dan friesen
It's just about, we're not going to lie that we're bigots anymore.
jordan holmes
Yeah, I mean, it was, yep, that's a great summation.
It was so much like people arguing about political correctness fucking missed.
They whiffed.
They whiffed so hard because you're like, I get what you're saying, and yes, it is nice, but unless you solve the underlying problem, you've just given people a new language to abuse you with.
That's it.
dan friesen
Yeah, and Tucker is saying that language is tiring.
jordan holmes
I don't even want to bother not using the F-slur anymore.
I sacrificed for you people and didn't slur all over the place, and now I realize that it's not even in my way anymore.
dan friesen
I never...
I never cared to understand why it would have been wrong for me or hurtful for me to say these things or act in these ways or hold these beliefs.
I never really even cared about that shit, but just for the sake of appearances and not having my bow tie show canceled, we didn't want to have those.
We couldn't express those things, but now speak freely.
Everything is fine.
Be a bigot.
Who gives a shit?
That's the honesty.
jordan holmes
It's the Sunday, like, we have to watch a video sensitivity thing where it's like, unless you are dealing with it, Getting people to stop for a while is not doing the job.
You know, it's not.
It's just not.
dan friesen
It's unfortunately clear.
jordan holmes
You gotta go all the way.
dan friesen
So, look, I think Tucker loves Christians, and he's super for them.
tucker carlson
Sure.
Last thing I will say is I think it's really important to understand what they hate most of all.
They hate a lot of different things.
They hate working class whites.
They hate tobacco.
jordan holmes
You know what I mean?
tucker carlson
They hate testosterone.
They have a lot of hates.
These are hateful people.
They're haters.
But the thing they hate most, above all else, is Christianity.
Not all religions.
Christianity.
That's what they hate.
But why is that, exactly?
Why is Christianity, which is the world's only non-violent religion, really, it's the world's biggest religion, and it is officially non-violent.
Turn the other chip.
unidentified
Someone takes your cloak, give him your shirt.
tucker carlson
That's the religion.
It's the religion of peace.
dan friesen
Alex should be arguing with him.
He believes that Jesus said, go get a sword.
He doesn't believe that Christianity is a religion of peace.
I understand that it feels good in the moment to say this.
jordan holmes
That's it.
dan friesen
But you don't believe this.
jordan holmes
It's so fucking...
I hate that.
That makes me so angry.
That's just like, you're fucking masturbating right now.
That is what he's doing.
Because he doesn't believe any of that.
He's just basking and feeling good about what if he did believe that?
What if I was fucking the most beautiful thing on the planet?
dan friesen
What he's doing is living in the experience where he's justifying his own supremacy.
He believes that being white is better, being male is better.
Being cis is better.
jordan holmes
And why?
dan friesen
Being Christian is better.
jordan holmes
Because of God!
dan friesen
Well, but you have to sort of justify those things in ways that feel like a normal person might accept them.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
And so, saying we're the only peaceful religion in the world seems like something that people might go for.
jordan holmes
Listen, listen.
We're not saying that we're superior as a race.
We're just saying that I believe...
Everything that the race of humans has created, that's good, was created by my race.
And every other race has only created terrible things for us.
So again, see, I'm not saying that whites are superior.
I'm saying that the fruits of our labor...
dan friesen
It's troubling.
It's very troubling.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
It's fucked up.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So Tucker goes on about how you should want to have a country full of Christians, and if you don't, then you're probably working for the devil.
unidentified
Hey, guess what?
jordan holmes
We've tried it before, buddy.
tucker carlson
In other words, if I'm a Buddhist or a Hindu or a Zoroastrian, it doesn't matter what my religion is, and I'm running a country, I want a country full of Christians because they're civic-minded.
I know for a fact they're not going to foment bloody revolution against me because their religion tells them not to.
They're peaceful, they're hardworking, they stay married, they're out doing crazy things.
I want Christians.
That would be the logical conclusion, right?
Because they're just...
They're orderly people.
alex jones
And why would you be against that?
Why would you be against that?
tucker carlson
Not just against it.
It's the thing that they hate most.
It's the thing they're most threatened by.
It's the thing that they seek to destroy.
And you have to just ask, like, why?
That's not rational.
There's no sort of policy goal that's served by opposing Christianity.
There's only a spiritual goal that is served by opposing Christianity.
alex jones
And that's just a fact.
dan friesen
This is so stupid.
It's just, it's unbelievably bad thinking patterns.
jordan holmes
I...
Don't even...
I can't...
If I engage with any part of that, then my brain will go on overdrive.
And I can't...
Because what the man has just said is historically contextual, right?
So he believes what time period he's living in is whatever time period he believes he's living in.
The 50s?
dan friesen
I don't know.
jordan holmes
Yeah, right?
So he believes this whole...
Viewpoint of it, but, like, we have history.
dan friesen
We do.
jordan holmes
And they wrote some of it!
dan friesen
Yeah, that's true.
jordan holmes
And it's not that he...
dan friesen
It doesn't follow this.
jordan holmes
It does not!
dan friesen
No.
unidentified
No!
dan friesen
We also have history of Tucker as a public figure, and he sounds like an idiot when you remember...
His entire existence.
jordan holmes
I mean, look.
It's crazy.
It's crazy that a human being can say stuff like that the way he says it.
Yes.
It blows my mind.
Like, I can't get over it.
dan friesen
And not have someone just laugh at him.
jordan holmes
Something.
Because something needs to happen.
dan friesen
It's just ridiculous.
jordan holmes
It is.
He's a clown.
He's a clown, and I know I'm a clown.
Right?
And I like being a clown, so I tell people I'm a clown.
And I know he's a clown because I'm a clown.
Clowns know clowns.
That's part of what we do.
dan friesen
Game recognized game.
jordan holmes
I mean, it's just like if you wear a bunch of makeup, sooner or later you look at other people and you see them wearing the makeup too.
Even if it's spiritual.
You know what I'm saying?
dan friesen
Well, but there's a difference between being a clown just for fun and to give balloons out and to be a clown to defend racism and bigotry.
Yeah.
jordan holmes
And that's what he is.
dan friesen
Yeah.
But there's also...
It's sort of a two-pronged thing.
It's a clown that's existing to reinforce these old structures.
sexism, homophobia, et cetera, Christian identity.
jordan holmes
White male-ism.
dan friesen
Right, all that.
But there's also, like, you're being a clown and you're acting like you are a Harvard professor.
Yeah.
unidentified
You're acting like you are this image of, I'm a moderate, just really smart, logical, totally normal person.
dan friesen
Right.
He has a big old nose that he's honking and saying, I fight demons.
jordan holmes
It's funny!
That's why it's funny!
It's because you're inhabiting what should be a place of prestige, and you're a clown.
That's what we do.
We dress up, we put on the clothes of somebody with power, and we go honk, honk, and then everybody realizes that the people with power who are clowns are actually clowns.
We're all clowns.
We're all clowns.
He's doing the opposite of that.
He's like, you'll never be as good as us.
It's horrifying.
alex jones
Yep.
dan friesen
So a fair amount of time is spent talking about how great Elon Musk is.
It's so great that he bought Twitter.
jordan holmes
See, that's clown shit.
dan friesen
It is.
And they're also just like, oh, it's so good that he wants everyone to have babies.
That's Nazi shit.
They talk more about that.
And, you know, it comes down to a dichotomy.
jordan holmes
As always.
dan friesen
You either are all about creating life.
Or all about destroying life?
And again, I would argue this is a false choice.
jordan holmes
Creepy and creepy, guys!
tucker carlson
That's kind of the nub of everything, Elon's point about birth rates, because it is, once again, a binary.
You're either the sort of person who dreams about killing, extinguishing life, or the kind of person who dreams about creating life.
I mean, it's really a very simple choice.
And if you're not reproducing, then you're dying.
And the idea of embracing that is so unnatural, so grotesque.
I mean, there's nothing greater.
Everyone's supposedly obsessed with sex.
Well, what is sex?
It's the beginning of the creation of life.
That's why we're driven to do it.
Because there's nothing greater, there's nothing more fulfilling, there's nothing more inherently meaningful than creating life or being present when God creates.
unidentified
Really?
tucker carlson
Through the act of sex.
Like, it's the greatest thing that there is.
jordan holmes
That's it.
tucker carlson
And children, of course, are part of you.
There's no greater achievement than having children, and there's no more enduring joy than having children.
alex jones
It's beyond magic.
You and a woman you love have great pleasure and interface, and then merge your genetics to create this wonderful new creature that is the—it's frickin' everything.
I mean, God is there.
tucker carlson
You see the perfection.
Yes, exactly.
God is there.
So, you know, you find people who don't have a chance to have children or don't realize its importance until it's too late.
I mean, that's always the case.
Or the society is, you know, having problems.
alex jones
And the left's so mad they don't have kids, they want to take it away from us.
Notice, those that don't have kids form the core of the globalist death cult because they're pissed they didn't have it, they want to take it away.
tucker carlson
But they're literally, it's more than just like some people don't have kids, it's like they're promoting not having kids.
By promoting...
You know, the LBGTQ three-spirit agenda, of course.
That's what that is.
It's not about tolerating people who are different, which almost every American is just instinctively happy to do, very much including...
jordan holmes
What?!
tucker carlson
No.
It's promoting childlessness.
It's the end of family, the end of children, the end of reproduction, the end of humanity.
It's anti-life.
dan friesen
This just is rank bigotry.
It's...
It is...
And there is a question that I would like to be asked in rebuttal to this.
And that is, you know, there are people who are born unable to reproduce.
Is that God playing a fucking ridiculously cruel joke where you're born and you don't have the ability to do the most important and only important thing that is part of life's experience?
jordan holmes
Yeah, because they're teaching you about what's important.
God created them to give you an example of how not to live your life.
dan friesen
Oh, I guess that is probably what Tucker would be forced to say if he was backed into that corner.
jordan holmes
These people are fucking insane.
I've heard those conversations so many times.
Yeah, we both have.
We've both been in quote-unquote The only peaceful religious environment that you can be in.
dan friesen
Yeah, man.
So this brings us to the end of this interview.
And I thought that this was shockingly bad.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
On a ton of levels.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
I think that Tucker is a lunatic.
unidentified
Yep.
dan friesen
I think that he's an idiot.
jordan holmes
Yep.
dan friesen
Or he's doing this stuff that is idiotic.
As a calculated way, because he understands that this is the wave he needs to ride now.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
You know, like, you have this stuff where it's like he's attacking the idea of generational affluence.
And it's like, well, you understand that it's because populism is hot in your world right now.
This season, you have to do that.
Right.
Otherwise, you...
Perfectly thrilled to be the product of generational affluence.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
No problem with that.
jordan holmes
Totally.
dan friesen
He's just putting on the mask of idiocy because there's idiotic shit that he needs to promote in order to stay relevant.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
Or he's an idiot.
It's one of the two, and I'm not entirely sure it matters which.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
If I was going to give society as a whole non-political advice, okay?
I would say structure it like the F1.
So every few years, F1 has a new set of rules in place for how you can build the car.
So if a team has got this amazing car, they've figured out the rules and all that stuff, then the rules are going to change though.
So some teams will be like, our car actually under these rules isn't that great.
So we're going to spend a whole year of the actual season riding around with kind of a shit car.
But focusing on the rules for the next car.
You know what I'm saying?
dan friesen
Right.
jordan holmes
Like, here's the thing that I've seen in my life with these people.
This part of how they think and say they think is going to end.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
We're going to get to another side of it.
dan friesen
If we survive.
jordan holmes
If we get to another side of it.
dan friesen
Yeah, and this is going to look fucking embarrassing.
jordan holmes
But that's the thing.
They cannot come back.
This is the type of shit.
People come back from.
I've seen people come back from this shit my entire life.
People are just not, well, we don't talk about that thing anymore.
We have to not allow that.
You get one.
Now it's done.
There's no more Tucker.
When the language changes, Tucker's gone.
dan friesen
Hey, dipshit.
Not you.
jordan holmes
I am a dipshit.
I take it.
dan friesen
Tucker's first one was the bowtie arrow supporting the Iraq war.
jordan holmes
We let him come back.
We let him come back.
You can't let him come back.
dan friesen
You should be characterized by these things.
jordan holmes
Forever.
dan friesen
Well, no.
I don't necessarily think that's true.
Because I think that growth is possible.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
And I think that that is true.
jordan holmes
Sure.
dan friesen
But I don't know what that would look like.
It certainly doesn't look like this.
I don't want to totally close the door, but you can't pretend that this didn't happen.
You can't pretend that you didn't go on a bunch of shows and say that you're in a fucking battle with demons.
jordan holmes
Right, right, right.
dan friesen
Whenever it becomes disadvantageous for you to have done that.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
You need to sort of own that history.
jordan holmes
Let me put it to you this way.
I think, as far as the story goes...
We are a lot more dominated by stories than we would like to believe.
dan friesen
Sure.
jordan holmes
Right?
And I think we have, as a society, kind of deified the comeback story.
That kind of thing.
Right?
To the point now where we expect it, and we fill in a lot of the blanks for people.
dan friesen
It's emotionally gratifying.
jordan holmes
And I think we need to change the story to...
Obviously, they don't, you know...
Like, it's not like, oh, get them out of here.
They can never be in society or anything like that.
But as a character in the world story, they are done.
They go away.
Go home.
dan friesen
I think the take on it should be like, I wish you the best with this growth.
But I don't trust you.
You can't be here.
jordan holmes
You gotta go home.
You don't get to be in the story anymore.
You get to go have fun.
Live your life.
I don't even care if you are happy or sad or anything.
Just be a person.
You can't be a character in the story anymore.
You know what I'm saying?
dan friesen
But I don't know how you organize things.
jordan holmes
We all gotta just choose to not let him back.
It's tough.
dan friesen
Here's a good apolitical, sort of just down the middle.
Way that I can sort of impugn this interview.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
I would say that any time you have a person who spends, you know, a considerable amount of time blowing hard about how honest they are and how they don't lie and how it's, you know, this is what my life is all about now, telling the truth, not lying, no matter the cost.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
And then they're like, hey, if I do something bad, I'll lie.
It's going to suck.
It'll be a burden.
Go ahead and just toss out that person as a credible person to care about much.
jordan holmes
In a wild way.
He was so honest about how he's a liar.
Yes.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Kind of makes you realize that honesty isn't what he's talking about.
jordan holmes
Nope.
dan friesen
Anyway, we'll be back for another episode.
jordan holmes
Indeed we will.
dan friesen
But until then...
Oh, also, I mean, the...
Oh, that's right.
jordan holmes
We'll see what happens.
What else do you guys think was going to happen?
dan friesen
Free speech systems didn't get liquidated, although it could have.
That would have been interesting.
But now he's going to end up having to deal with this in courts.
And people will be collecting on him.
It's, you know, unemotionally gratifying in the sense that the collapse of the business...
We'd be like, ha ha, it's over?
Right, right, right.
This is actually a worse thing for him to have to deal with.
jordan holmes
We'd like an implosion, but, you know, a slow, gradual, everybody ripping a brick out of their own would be, yeah.
dan friesen
And that may be where we end up going.
Who knows?
We will see.
But we'll be back until then.
I'm Neo.
I'm Leo.
I'm DCX Clark.
I'm the Mysterious Professor.
unidentified
Woo, yeah, woo!
Yeah, woo!
And now...
steve quayle
Here comes the sex robots.
alex jones
Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
Thanks for holding.
unidentified
Hello, Alex.
jordan holmes
I'm a first-time caller.
unidentified
I'm a huge fan.
jordan holmes
I love your work.
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