Knowledge Fight dissects Alex Jones’ Twitter Spaces return, where he deflects Sandy Hook conspiracy claims under Elon Musk’s pressure, citing a vague "Democratic-aligned PR firm" while dodging specifics. Jones frames his reinstatement as free speech triumph but ignores harassment ties to his rhetoric, like threats against victims’ families. Panelists—including Jack Posobiec, Brian Krassenstein, and Matt Gaetz—rally around Musk’s ego-driven platform, ignoring real-world consequences like Ukraine’s arrest of Gonzalo Lyra for wartime propaganda. Ultimately, the episode exposes how Jones and his allies weaponize misinformation while evading accountability, all under Musk’s chaotic, self-serving oversight. [Automatically generated summary]
They had a really interesting trajectory as a band because you had the walking on the sun, which was a big hit, but that was like, you're in the direction of one-hit wonder of that era.
And then they had the All-Star, which was a song that I would say the only thing that I can think of that comes close to it in the modern time is something like DMX's Y'all Gonna Make Me Lose My Mind.
I also think that there's a dramatic difference between the hey ya kind of moment of being like that maybe gets to a wider audience and then people can realize how great Outcast's catalog is earlier on.
My bright spot is this is it's weird to say this because I'm not a big economics guy, but I will own my car in like I will have paid off my car in like two payments.
On our last episode, towards the end, we were alerted to the fact there was a Twitter Spaces going on featuring Alex Jones and some other noted luminary shitheads.
So I wrestled with this because I think it's stupid and I found it's three hours long and I found it insufferable.
No, no, no, no.
It felt like it would never end.
But the list of people who are in the mix here who are involved in this conversation, it doesn't feel like something I should just ignore.
It feels like, you know, when you have someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene coming on InfoWars the first time, it's like, this is relevant.
This is a person who is in Congress who is on Alex's show.
Or when Vivek comes on Alex's shit, you know, or I guess actually Alex was interviewed by Vivek for his shit.
You know, it is like someone is running for president.
These intersections of like what would be respected positions, people in those supposedly respected positions, it feels like I would be remiss if we just ignored that this happened.
That's what, I mean, I guess what confuses me about the whole garbage takes thing is essentially you're like, everything's not as good as it should be.
It's about everybody having the courage to stand up for free speech, particularly Elon Musk, Tucker Carlson, and others.
And because when we put up with somebody else being censored, for whatever reason, the media says, or whether something they said that was wrong or something that hurts our feelings, when we censor somebody else or go along with it, we end up censoring everybody else, including ourselves.
So I want to applaud everybody for after five, six years of this nightmare for waking up.
So in your interview with Paco, you did express concern on what could happen to you.
So you expressed understanding on why Elon didn't bring you back.
Obviously, that didn't last long.
And you also had concerns on what could happen to Elon if he does reinstate your account.
Now that you're back, do you expect Elon, who also quote, I think he replied to Brian, who's on stage, one of his replies, he said, I expect revenue to potentially drop from this decision.
Do you expect there to be a tax or pressure on Elon after he reinstated you?
I don't have the comment on X in front of me, but he basically said it's the right thing to do because the principle, and it's also what the majority of the vote said.
So, this probably will hurt X monetarily, but justice be done, may the heavens fall, basically.
But at the end of the day, it already has way more traffic, way more people.
It's avant-garde.
It's revolutionary.
It's rebel.
It's Maverick.
And that's what Elon Musk has always said he is.
And he's done all these Maverick things.
And people always say, well, he didn't really do that.
But I went back and researched it.
He did do that.
All these incredible successes.
I'm not kissing his ass.
It's true.
And the fact that he could take over Twitter, free it, and bring back one of the most demonized people, if not the most demonized in the world.
Talk about a witch hunt.
Shows he put his money where his mouth is and is the Mavericks Maverick.
I mean, nobody can argue now that this guy is not cutting-edge Maverick.
So I'm sure that Musk knew that revenues would likely go down and he'd lose more advertisers if he let Alex back on the platform, but he's also being boxed in by the extreme right-wing audience he's cultivated to the point where the decision isn't really a Maverick decision at all.
It's bowing to the shouts of the mob.
By his words and actions, Elon Musk is clearly politically and ideologically aligned with the most extreme right-wing voices in the media, many of whom are in this Twitter space.
He's shown that he's desperate in his need to look cool for these shitheads, and that's much more important for him than creating a functioning, decent-to-use website, and more important than running a successful business.
In the second quarter of 2023, Twitter's revenue was down just about 50% year over year and went from about 1.5 billion in Q4 2021 to just under 600 million in Q2 2023.
He's overseeing the full deflation of a site from a revenue standpoint.
Twitter has also been bleeding users who don't want to hang out on a website full of unchecked shitheads because it's a really bad user experience.
The site was losing millions of daily users, so in response, Musk stopped using that metric and started pointing to monthly users since that number looks a bit better.
By almost every metric, Twitter's going pretty much down the drain.
According to stats compiled by Axios, app downloads dropped 38% globally and 57% in the U.S. in the year after Musk bought the site.
User time on the app is decreasing and overall traffic to the site is down as much as 11% on web browsers in the United States.
Essentially, what's going on is that Elon Musk is trying to take Twitter on a $44 billion joyride.
And a big part of that is letting the types of shitheads he likes create an unpleasant environment for the other users.
It'll be a lot of fun for them while it lasts, but ultimately the end result of this is that the whole thing is going to go out of business as it becomes just another telegram or gab where all the user base is just the dumb dumbs like these people and a handful of folks who just have accounts to keep tabs on what they're up to.
It's pretty annoying and it's a farce to see all this being masqueraded around to some kind of a free speech activism, but you can't really expect them to do anything else.
This is exactly what they would do.
And if this is really about free speech, then Musk needs to go all the way.
Let David Duke back on.
Get Milo Yiannopoulos back in the site.
Let Tila Tequila come back.
All she did was post pictures of herself doing a Nazi salute at a white nationalist gathering.
Yeah, the Saudi wealth, like the reason that like Live Golf and all of these, like the reason that MBS is spending $300 million on something that will make $40 or whatever is because one, money is pretend.
It doesn't exist to him.
And two, it makes him feel good.
This is what happens when you give one man too much power is something feels good is worth spending a billion dollars on.
And the ADL, the CIA, and the Justice Department and the Southern Party lost to their media matters.
They were already doing it when I was taping the interview like three weeks ago.
But since then, all those big establishment sponsors who are already being boycotted by the American people, by the way, so they're losing literally hundreds of millions of dollars in the aggregate because the people are boycotting them.
As Elon said, well, now they're trying to bully Elon to bully the American people, the people of the world.
So he said, go fuck yourself.
And I can't speak for Elon.
Maybe he'll call in.
But I think when he, as soon as they did that to him, even though he tried to basically work with them, was being very, very fair.
And I think really cleaned up the thing of bots and things like that.
As soon as they doubled down, he said, you know what?
Screw you.
I'll go ahead then and release the cracking.
And it's not that I'm that good on Twitter or that I'm even that great of a talk show host.
It's the symbol of what they built of Alex Jones is now an archetype of the rebel populist and what the establishment fears.
And so what Elon did was really throw down the gauntlet.
Prior to Alex Jones's just really public execution in terms of the digital square, it was a digital public execution that we saw.
Prior to that, the idea that people were getting suspended on Twitter, you know, Twitter 1.0 or even Facebook or YouTube or any of these things, it was ridiculous.
You had to either, you know, really, you know, seriously violate terms of service, death threats, doxing.
That was pretty much it.
That was pretty much the only thing, or like actually hacking the system.
It was the only thing that gets you out.
But when they did that to Alex Jones, it fundamentally changed the way that we operate on social media and the way that we share information.
And up until the point of Elon Musk purchasing Twitter and transforming it now into X, we have not had the ability to freely share information.
And that's why in the past year, it's basically been about a year and change since he purchased it.
That's why you've suddenly started to see people, and not even just on X, but out in the real world, out in normal conversations.
We're finally starting to move past that point of intense censorship, where if you've lived in any country that has an authoritarian regime, you know that the censorship isn't external, it's internal.
So it's internal.
It's in your mind.
You know you're not allowed to hold certain opinions.
Before Alex got kicked off Twitter, there were plenty of people who got banned.
Milo got banned two years prior.
Holocaust denier and racist troll Charles Johnson, who's now claiming he was an FBI informant, got kicked off in 2015.
Tommy Robinson was kicked off earlier than Alex in 2018.
Same for the Proud Boys and Gavin McGinnis.
Shit, Azalea Banks was banned from Twitter earlier than Alex.
Roger Stone was kicked off a year before Alex.
Alex's Nazi buddy Owen Benjamin was kicked off before him.
Anyway, the point is that Alex was not digitally crucified or executed, and he wasn't the first high-profile person to be kicked off for being a fucking asshole.
But this is the new mythological telling of the story because it works really well for narrative purposes.
Now that Alex is back on Twitter, if they pretend that him being kicked off was the beginning of this rash of censorship that they've all been persecuted by, this becomes all the more triumphant.
It's completely inaccurate, but very emotionally satisfying for them.
So, you know, you publish the legend, as they say.
I think that's why I, I mean, and my point, you know, I think I said it on the last episode about the whole like you have to step on their throat in the fourth quarter.
So another example of someone that's gone through the same thing is obviously Andrew Tate, which you retweeted earlier.
We've got Tristan on stage.
Tristan, we've got Alex Jones back on X. Would love your thoughts on your experience getting censored and congratulations on finally being able to walk free.
So now the panel on this show that really loves to ask the hard questions and thinks about here, you know, it's important to hear from all sides has been Laura Loomer, Jack Pisobic, and Andrew Tate's brother.
The woman who handcuffed herself to Twitter's door, the guy who almost pissed his pants in fear, eating at comic ping pong while trying to push Pizzagate, and a dude who's definitely going to prison for organized crime and sex trafficking.
I honestly cannot imagine why advertisers wouldn't want to be associated with this kind of platform since the owner of the fucking site shows up and hangs out for like two hours with these shitheads.
Recently, the Tate brothers have gotten their geographical restrictions loosened up, so now they can travel around Romania as long as they get the court's permission first.
The criminal charges are very much still pending, and Andrew Tate is being sued by four women for multiple sex crimes in addition to that.
There's that old saying, you know, a person by the company they keep, and man, this is bad company.
If you see this collection of people, and I know that it's hacky to say nightmare blunt rotation, but really, that is this is a worst thing I could think of.
This is a room where if I walked into it, you couldn't stop me from getting out of that room.
Plus, Alex was on his show days before this workshopping with callers how to evade the notes in the first place.
It's an incompetent system that applies literally no pressure or pushback on misinformation, but is designed to give the image of doing exactly that, which is why Alex doesn't have a problem with it.
It poses zero threat to his ability to spread bullshit, so it's fine.
And like, I understand it's like, oh, there's fact-checking there.
Like, oh, if someone posts something wrong, then the thing that's right is underneath.
Hey, guess what?
All those people are still making money off those wrong posts.
Crazy statement is the answer is being able to respond to it.
And so I really welcome community notes because then it's not some big corporation like Microsoft with their news guard who's got one of the worst records actually of truthfulness out there telling you that they're the arbiter of truth and using sly methods like Snopes and others do to deceive people.
You know, when I'm on the radio slash TV doing my weekday shows at Infowars, I've got a crew in there running it and they don't tell me what to say or do, but a couple times a day they said, hey, you just set a date wrong or you just said something that they know is wrong.
And then I correct it because I never consciously get something wrong.
But when you're talking three, four hours a day, you make mistakes.
And so I think that that's what this is all about.
And so I really look forward.
In fact, I want people that politically disagree with me to come on.
That's much better radio and TV.
But the internet put people in their own silos where we don't communicate with each other.
And half the time, we're disagreeing with the other side because we have a distorted perspective of what they're saying.
If Alex loves being corrected, you'd think that at some point he'd get on air and issue a correction based on the literal thousands of things we've talked about that he's been wrong about, was lying about, or just entirely made up.
I imagine his engagement with community notes won't be any better.
And within a month or so, I would expect him to come up with a conspiracy about leftists within the community notes structure working against him.
I wouldn't be too surprised if he tried to make some hay out of that.
At a certain point, like, obviously you have no problem with community notes because it doesn't really threaten you.
But Alex is somebody who gets annoyed.
And I could see him being annoyed by it to the point where he comes up with a conspiracy about the notes.
Well, I mean, the notes are good for two groups of people.
They're good for the group of people who likes to see people on the far right say stuff that is obviously wrong, and then they're like, ha ha, I bet they care.
The idiots, you know?
And then there's the other group of people who it's important to, and those are the people who work at Twitter.
Who get to complain about how evil it is and how terrible it is for those people.
You know, one of the questions I really have to just get out of the way, and you've probably talked about this already before, is the whole Sandy Hook thing.
And, you know, because it's not, like, obviously, if, you know, if somebody's sort of denying murders of children, that's not cool at all.
You know, and so just what exactly did you say?
And what is going on with that situation?
You know, I just, I would like to actually hear what did you say?
Look, I guess people just want to know, like, obviously it would be like heartless and cruel to deny a school shooting of children or to attack the parents or anyone who was involved.
It seems that that would be, you know, just incredibly mean and cruel, frankly.
So it's sort of, that's, I think, you know, what a lot of people are upset about, or at least they think that is the reason to be upset about it.
And, you know, if that were true, I think we would rightly be upset with you.
And by 19, by 2016, I had 30 million viewers conservatively.
I was the biggest shows, biggest Rogan is now or bigger.
And I had a very small operation and did not even understand how powerful I was.
And so when that event, I just call it the school shooting, which I do believe happened, happened 11 years ago, the internet exploded.
And it was a top story for off and on for years with all the professors and former school safety people and all of them saying they believed it was a drill.
And I simply covered them covering that.
What was entered in court against me in both cases where I was found guilty by judges?
Kind of like in New York, there's a judge in Trump's case, not even a jury, in his real estate case.
And then years later, after Trump got elected and after I was deplatformed, it made me bigger.
And so suddenly I would wake up and there would be sometimes 100 articles or more a day, every major news channel saying that I was currently saying nobody died, currently sending people to their houses, currently peeing on graves.
So I love the way Alex is making himself such a squeaky, clean, respectable little boy for Mr. Musk, calling him sir.
What a worm.
Obviously, anybody who followed the case at all or has listened to Alex's shows from the time of the shooting knows that he's entirely full of shit.
The day of the shooting, Alex got on air and suggested it was a false flag.
He started insinuating that Robbie Parker, one of the parents of a murdered child, was an actor almost immediately, long before he ever came into contact with Wolfgang Halbig, the wildly discredited school safety administrator he's claiming he just covered.
Alex didn't just cover Halbig, Alex promoted Halbig, all while he had every reason to know that Halbig was literally stalking and harassing the parents, insisting they were actors and that their kids never existed.
Alex had Halbig on the show as an expert and directed his fans to financially support Halbig so he could continue his harassment.
And not only that, Alex paid for his employee, Dan Badondi, to go to Connecticut to join in the harassment of Newtown residents, which Alex celebrated and aired on his show as a triumphant thing in the InfoWar.
Further, Alex sold Jim Fetzer's book, No One Died at Sandy Hook, on his website, and literally all of the quote anomalies Alex was so confused by that made him suspect it was all a hoax came directly from either Fetzer or Halbig.
It was those two and then a third person even closer to Alex, Steve Pieczenik, who was feeding Alex's crisis actor narratives long before he met Wolfgang Halbig.
The reality is that Alex wanted to cover Sandy Hook as a fake event because it was an incredibly powerful driver of traffic and sales for him.
Alex understands that emotionally traumatic events are ones that have a way of overwhelming people's rational thinking.
And there are few things that are more traumatic than a mass murder of children in a school.
No one wants to believe that that kind of thing could happen.
So it's not difficult for talented conspiracy theorists to entice people into that false narrative that allows them to not accept that reality.
Alex wanted to cover the story this way, and that's why he gravitated towards these bullshit experts who were clearly full of shit, like Wolfgang Halbig, Jim Fetzer, and he just has a soft spot for Steve.
So, you know, Steve can do whatever he wants on the show.
It's a convenient story to pretend that this was the internet.
It was just really interested in Sandy Hook.
Alex was just covering what these guys were saying, but that's cowardly revisionist trash.
Alex was doing what Alex always does, which is trying to profit from other people's pain.
There weren't hundreds of stories all the time, but Alex Hussein, you know, he's still saying things to send people to the victims' families' homes.
He repeated his defamatory claims about them because he got mad about Neil Hesslin going on Megan Kelly's show and talking about his experience.
So some people rightly reported that Alex is still saying the things about these families that he said in the past, and it was the stuff that led to their harassment.
He has no one to blame for that but himself.
And for what it's worth, multiple times under oath during his deposition and trial, as well as on air during the trial, Alex repeated his assertion that Sandy Hook was probably fake.
So he can calm the fuck down with this I'm a victim stuff.
I want to take a quick moment and examine something that Alex said at the beginning of that clip, though, because I think it reveals something important.
He's trying to dodge responsibility for his actions or minimize them by saying that he never went to college and he wasn't formally trained.
I've listened to countless hours of Alex's show, and I can tell you with zero reservation that Alex has no respect for formal education or training, particularly in the field of journalism.
The fact of whether he was trained or not should be immaterial here.
And Alex is doing that and bringing this up just to make his actions look like an innocent mistake.
Also, if I wasn't trained for the job as a possible excuse for defaming the grieving families of dead children and directing harassment in their direction, then I would suggest that training for this job should be mandatory.
Clearly, the subject matter being handled by someone in Alex's position is far too sensitive and dangerous to be trusted in the hands of someone who's this fucking irresponsible.
Speaking of which, I wonder if Alex is going to tell Elon that he was drunk on air when he said that the families were actors.
I'm going to guess he's going to avoid that because that's a detail that's just there for the cool kids' table when he's trying to sound like a badass rebel.
Here, he's in sniveling worm territory, so that kind of game just isn't going to work.
Well, as a society, as a society, I think that it is just so disgusting, I guess, on some level that people will not inform themselves in any way about the reality of these situations to the point where Alex has free reign to just lie about what the case is about, what he did, what anything happened.
Like, that, to me, is such an abdication of any concern on the part of everybody in this call, quite frankly.
So that's the first really interesting thing that's happened here.
Elon Musk actually asked Alex a follow-up question that Alex absolutely cannot answer.
Alex's story about why he got sued about Sandy Hook was that a PR firm that works with the UN and the Democratic Party got mad at him because he was too popular and Trump got elected.
So they went through his history and found something they could attack him over.
This is absolute bullshit, but I've never seen anyone call Alex out on it when he repeats it.
That's true.
Alex's answer is really interesting that he can't remember the name of the PR firm.
It's interesting because here's Alex from like 35 minutes earlier in the call, just before Elon Musk had shown up.
Then they had, we later learned, I'm not going to say names or even get into it because that's what they want's attention, but we learned there was a big, powerful New York PR firm that actually does the PR for the UN and also for some of the CIA operations.
And that's really what we're talking about here.
That's all come out in Congress now.
And then they went and dredged up stuff in my timeline out of context, blew it up times a million, and then said that I was currently doing things I'd never done.
Just outrageous, horrible things.
But notice, never proof, never a clip, never a video.
Alex is never going to come out and say who this firm is because he's making all this up.
Alex is a total idiot, but even he knows that if you were to actually make an accusation like this about a real business, he will get sued immediately.
It's really weird to see Musk have the instinct to ask a clarifying question here and yet still be completely oblivious to how flagrantly Alex is lying to his face.
But I think that what's going on is that, you know, Musk has this battle against media matters going on right now and all this.
Alex just said that he decided the shooting really happened five years after it happened.
That would be in December 2017.
Alex was interviewed on Megan Kelly's show, which also featured the Neil Hesslin interview in June 2017.
The actions he took trying to attack Heslin's appearance in that interview are the grounds for bringing this suit against him.
So by his own admission, at the time he was on Megan Kelly, he thought the shooting didn't happen and that these people were all fake.
What's going on here is that Alex is mixing up his timeline because he knows he's talking to shitheads who don't actually want the truth.
They just want Alex to lie to them in a way that gets them off the hook for looking into any of this and having to deal with the fact that, oh my God, this guy is a real piece of shit.
Yeah, when they go and talk to their friends in real life and they're like, I can't believe you talked to Alex, then they can be like, oh, Alex is different.
Whereas if they dealt with this in reality, they can't do that.
Yeah, they'd be like, why did you talk to Alex?
Yeah, I know.
I'm ashamed.
Also, not for nothing, but the idea that Alex is admitting to believing and preaching on air that the shooting didn't happen for the first five years isn't helping his case the way he thinks it is.
That was when most of these people were traumatized the most deeply, where the grieving process was literally interrupted by violent harassment from idiots who thought that they were actors.
By saying that he didn't think the shooting happened for the first five years, he's in effect admitting to complicity with the worst part of what he's accused of.
Alex said that he apologized and admitted that some of these experts he relied on to make the claims were crazy liars, but this introduces some more problems.
The first is that one of these so-called crazy liars was Steve Pieczenik, who remained a respected guest on Alex's show until the 2020 election when he got on Alex's bad side by insisting that all the ballots were secretly watermarked.
The second is that even after this point, Alex continued to repeat the claims made by Halbig and Fetzer, the ones that he's conceding these dudes made up.
Even under oath in his deposition, Alex still clung to some of these things to justify why he thought Sandy Hook was suspicious.
The third problem is that Alex didn't just repeat these guys' claims in a way that would be like, Wolfgang Halbig believes X, Y, or Z. Read about it here.
Alex presented the position that it was a fake event with crisis actors as the result of him researching the whole thing.
This wasn't a slip-up.
He was lying to the audience about doing research about this when in reality, he was just parroting the insane claims of these liars because it was more interesting to the audience and it drove traffic.
Like Alex said, it was a hot topic.
At the end there, you get an interesting insight into Alex's mind.
He says that he wasn't thinking about the shooting and he wasn't turning the knife.
The thing is, he clearly was turning the knife.
He wasn't thinking about what he was doing because he didn't care.
He didn't care that he was lying about people in a way that turned a knife in their wounds.
They didn't exist to Alex, but the narrative did.
And that was a juicy narrative.
If you can take the deeply traumatic event and blame it on your enemies, that is a powerful recruitment tool for the InfoWar.
And that was what Alex was interested in.
He didn't give a fuck about these people and what they were going through and what impact his actions had on them.
What is fun about Alex is that because I'm like, I'm raised in a fiction world, you know, like I've always interacted with reality through fiction first, you know, that kind of concept.
That's where I learned about, you know, like I learned about a lot of shit from Moby Dick when I was like too young for Moby Dick, that kind of stuff.
Mainly, don't click MobyDick.com.
Good tip.
No, it is just like all of the morality tales, you know, that idea of the scarlet letter, of the albatross, of all of these things, should shove it up their ass.
And like whatever kind of public shaming there is is not effective if you can find a group of people who it's profitable for them to deny that you have any reason to be ashamed.
Yep, absolutely.
So that's what we're experiencing here.
But the issue comes down to Alex has apologized so many times.
Complete bullshit, lies about what he did, followed by a performative, if it hurt you, I'm sorry.
There's no apology without responsibility, and Alex is literally incapable of taking responsibility for his actions.
The perfect encapsulation of that is him insisting, I never sent anyone to your homes.
And maybe that's true in the sense that he never literally ordered anyone to go to people's homes.
However, he promoted and preached that these people were actors, faking having had their family members murdered so that they could be used to take away American citizens' guns.
They were being used as a weapon against the Second Amendment, and they were willing participants in that.
This put a giant target on these grieving people, which was only made worse by Alex's frequent comments that people needed to look into what's going on there and all that.
Beyond that, Alex literally did send Dan Badanti to Newtown to harass people.
So maybe he didn't go to their homes, but he did go to their town.
And let's not forget that he was fundraising for Wolfgang Halbig, who was using those funds to continue his campaign of harassment against these people where he literally did go to their homes.
I know that Alex doesn't want to feel responsible for his part in this, but that doesn't really matter.
Until he stops dodging this aspect of things, his apologies don't really matter.
Also, no one was accusing Alex of peeing on a grave, and I don't know why he would expect there to be video of it.
I mean, what happened was that Mark and Jackie Barden received a letter from someone who claimed that he had peed on their seven-year-old son's grave.
They got another letter threatening to dig it up to prove that their son didn't exist.
Alex has taken this unthinkably painful detail that the family shared during the trial, and he's weaponizing it for his own purposes.
Alex still doesn't give a single shit about any of these people and the pain he was causing and was a part of causing.
And it would really do Elon a lot of good to look into the actual reality of this instead of relying on a liar to tell you the truth about it.
When you take somebody into out of their circumstance and put them in a different circumstance and then ask them a question about something, that can often help you understand what it is they're saying in that other circumstance.
For instance, if you were to ask Alex, would you be so easily tricked by a PR firm?
He would say, No, I'm not that stupid.
And then we go over here into this scenario and he says, Oh, these families, they've been tricked by these PR firms, by these lawyers, by all of these things.
Now, if you understand how language works, that means he's calling them stupid.
Sure, and he's entirely invalidating the entire perspective and autonomy of the families by insisting that the media and the PR firms incited them against him.
Everything he's literally incapable of accepting responsibility for his actions and cannot conceive of a reality where these people don't like him for the reasons they say.
If they think Alex is bad, their opinion can't possibly be genuine because Alex knows that he's super good.
Yeah, another thing to point out is how dangerous a game Alex is playing here.
The families clearly don't want to engage in media bullshit games with him, like coming on a panel, something that would be literally just whitewashing PR for Alex.
Yeah, but what he's doing has a very real potential to restart a fair amount of harassment.
It's not a very difficult thing to imagine Alex's fans doing some kind of why won't you do a panel with Alex kind of shit?
And I find it difficult to imagine that Alex doesn't understand that that is a potential outcome of what he's doing.
Like, he's putting more likely attention and harassment in their direction, and that's uh probably not good.
Yeah, I mean, I think it will be an interesting test to see what kind of a deterrent Alex actually Alex's court case actually was towards future harassment like this, you know, because if Alex's fans continue harassing, I think that says everything you need to know.
So let's say Alex Jones or somebody else does the same thing, but clearly directly claims that a school shooting did not take place when we know it did.
Does that future person or Alex Jones get banned, or is the new policy that they remain?
Obey the laws of the United States and the laws of the countries in which X is present and really do our best to not go beyond the law on the premise that if the people wish the law to be different, then the people will ask their representatives or their leaders to change the law.
But otherwise, our goal is to hear as closely to the law as possible.
So if somebody says something that is unlawful, then we will take action.
If someone does not do something that is unlawful, then we would aspire to not take action.
So I guess the answer is that you can deny school shootings on Twitter.
That's fine.
This dude's a real piece of shit.
He's hiding behind this thin veneer of pretending that his rules on Twitter are just going to be in line with the law of the country, but that's not at all how he's operated.
Within the last month, he said that using the word decolonization was a euphemism that, quote, necessarily implied genocide, which wasn't going to be allowed.
Does the law of the United States say that you can't use the word decolonization?
It seems like Elon's extending past the law of the land there because he wants to.
In November of last year, Elon kicked off a bunch of people for making parody accounts about him.
Was that against the law of the land, or was that Musk just being a little fucking baby?
Saying that you'll allow whatever speech is allowed by law is a perfect way to run cover for why you're not kicking off the racist trolls and lying grifters who are Elon's main fan base.
It just rings a little bit hollow and that's clearly not the standard that you're using.
And to be clear, Elon's free to use whatever standard he likes, so long as he's not restricting people based on a protected class.
I mean, it is like a guy going out of his way to make me not like him.
Yeah.
Because there is, there is one, I mean, one thing he could do that nobody would even be mad at him about is if he was just like, I am going to behave whimsically.
If you're worried about the spread of misinformation or false facts, one is let's deal with the content of the speech itself.
Elon talked about community notes as being imperfect, though it is maybe the best method out there on the internet, and I think that that's one set of discussions to have.
That's quite a different thing from what the law certainly looks at as the most draconian first amendment violation, which is what it calls a prior restraint, which is to previously just restrain a person for from speaking period, and I think that that is no matter what the content of the speech is.
It's quite a different thing to say that because of who you are or what you have said in the past, you may not say another thing in the future, and so I just think that those are two different concepts and I I just for one just wanted to share my experience of uh, my Alex Jones experience, if I may as well.
That is perfectly said, because you don't cut somebody's tongue out yeah, even if I did bad things in the past, but you know what, if you, I mean, but if people say false things, they deserve to have the consequences for that particular speech aired out in the marketplace of opinions, and you know community notes is one feature of of doing that, and I think that's a legitimate discussion to have.
They love this system because it's pretending to address the problem of how they make money, but it's actually not doing anything.
Literally every post Alex puts up could be community noted and the people who want to believe him will ignore each one.
Prior restraint is a fun way for Vivek to describe being booted from twitter, but it's not the same as having your ability to speak taken from you.
This is a group of adults, including one of the richest people in the world and a guy pretending to run for president, sitting around whining about how they used to have to worry about being suspended from twitter.
I mean and and this is it does not mention the any kind of, any kind of attack on George Bush, but George Bush did say uh, George Bush Ii did say that there were wmds right in Iraq.
He said it not once, but but many times and and that and a lot it's, that was, that was that there was, there was.
He did not have sufficient evidence to make the to make and a lot more deep died as a consequence of that statement exactly than of anything that Alex Jones has incorrectly not killed anybody but Alex, I think you know Alex, I think one of the things I just wanted to share with people is that I was actually just curious about this guy, Alex Jones.
You know i'd never met him, but I happened to be in Texas, I visited the southern border and you know I popped in Austin on the way Back or somewhere, I forget where we were, and I heard Alex Jones was, that's where he was.
I said, I want to meet this guy that everybody says don't meet.
And so we sat down, and I was actually surprised.
We actually aired it on X, or we, or I put out clips of it on X, I can't remember in like a podcast format.
And so I was expecting to get in a debate about the Sandy Hook thing.
And as soon as I open up, what I get is a guy apologized for being wrong.
And then we moved on and talked about something else.
So, in terms of what Elon was saying, fine, kick Bush off Twitter then.
Yeah, it's interesting that for these guys, the deaths in Iraq are the result of speech.
Like, somehow Bush saying that there were weapons of mass destruction was the underlying cause of their deaths.
There were decisions made and actions taken that led to the war, and misleading the country about this was something that they used speech to do.
But is a public figure lying against the First Amendment, the law of the land that he cares so much about?
In a situation like this, they're perfectly able to take speech and then abstract it out to the consequences of actions taken related to that speech.
Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction, which was a part of creating a larger public support for the idea of going to war.
The problem really isn't the speech itself, it's the results of it.
The lie is bad, but the results are really what you care about, like all the dead civilians.
Now, let's expand this out to Alex's situation.
He lied about families of murder victims being actors and that their loved ones never existed or died.
The speech itself there is bad, and I think that all right-thinking people would consider it distasteful.
But the real problem is the results of that speech.
That speech was part of creating an environment where the victims were targets of harassment and receiving threats like having their children's graves desecrated and shit like that.
Neither of these results were necessarily what the person was going for.
Bush wasn't setting out specifically to kill civilians.
He just didn't really care if that happened as a result of the thing that he was intending to do.
Alex didn't set out specifically to terrorize these families.
He just didn't really care if that was the result of him doing the kind of coverage that he wanted to do.
This should be a simple thing for Elon to grasp if he's bringing this up as some kind of a free speech issue, and yet he remains a buffoon.
Also, to Vivek's point, Alex didn't apologize for being wrong when you talked to him.
He lied about what he did and then did the performance of a bad apology in order to defuse the situation and make sure you didn't explore the point anymore and realize that you were talking to a monster.
I so when Vivek brought up the great replacement theory, I mean on the debate stage.
Yeah, I was so, so disappointed because the funniest thing in the world could have happened, which is just one of them turning and looking at Vivek and just being like, yeah, Bergham should have been standing there.
It would have been so fucking funny.
And it would have ended everybody's lives.
We would all have like clapped and walked away from the United States into the oceans and returned to our dolphin brethren.
Just to elaborate on the public relations firms, PR firms, which really should be called propaganda firms because that's literally public relations is literally a propaganda word for propaganda.
You can read the history of how public relations was developed.
So, but The way that PR firms actually corrupt the media is actually in a very significant way, is that journalists are paid very little as journalists, but they can later retire and join a PR firm and make a lot of money on the basis of the articles they've written in the past and their contacts at their publication.
So there is actually a strong monetary incentive, very strong, for corruption of the traditional media.
Elon, Elon, it's so glad you said that because people don't understand that's how these work.
And I'm just now learning about that.
The PR firms are so powerful.
They're full of intelligence agency, former people.
So just like a general will sign off on some bad weapon system, then he retires and gets on the major board of the defense contractor for $5 million a year.
It's a revolving door.
And so that's why when these big PR firms snap, they jump, the media says how high, and you're actually right.
When it comes to fact-checking, they're really one of the most nasty, deceptive groups out there.
The public should really understand that public relations literally just means propaganda.
PR firm means propaganda.
And the PR firms have very strong control over the traditional media because that's where journalists go to retire and make tons of money.
So there's a very strong monetary incentive for journalists to do what the PR firms say because they know that that is where they're going to get rich in the future.
So this is complete insanity, but it makes sense for Elon to have this stance.
He's been acting like an erratic asshole, posting all kinds of racist and anti-Semitic shit, associating with some of the most bigoted accounts on his own website, and people notice.
Because people notice, there are articles about his behavior, and he needs to come up with a good excuse for why that is.
It's not because his behavior is unacceptable and really scary considering his position.
It's because PR firms are all propaganda outlets out to get him.
Now, I'll go with him halfway on this.
Sure.
I don't think the PR as an institution is a really great thing.
I've always been averse to marketing and advertising in their entirety, but what Elon's saying is fucking idiotic.
Also, fun fact, when Elon took over Twitter, one of the things he did was to diminish the PR department.
This was probably because that was the point of contact for journalists, that they could contact the company and ask for comment on things like him letting all the Nazis back on the site.
However, in time, Musk realized that he kind of needed PR in order to run his company, so now he just calls it, quote, business operations.
They even brought in Joe Benerock as the head of this effort, a guy whose previous jobs were director of Facebook's small business and international advertising, as well as the executive vice president of communications for NBC.
Elon operates like a child.
He makes a big mess, and then Linda Yaccarino and the rest of the corporate PR that's not called PR inside Twitter work like mad to clean it up and save the company from losing more money.
He's like somebody who thinks doing laundry is a scam because someone else always does his laundry.
Also, journalists definitely are paid enough, but they don't just do the bidding of PR firms so they can get a job with them after they retire.
I'd like to see any backing of this claim.
That's a conspiracy theory that belongs on InfoWars.
I'm in the middle of a poker game, but since this is the battle for humanity against the Satanists and the Matrix with its constant deception of the populace, I thought I would jump in and say hello to everybody.
I imagine, I imagine it must be a little bit like going home every day to when my, you know, my mom would be like, your dad's going to be home after I did something wrong at school.
And just never not doing it, just continuing to do it.
The purchase of a simple website has literally cracked the Matrix in real time, and it becomes extremely difficult now to run the psyops they were previously running and enslave the populace, which is their primary goal.
So Elon is a hero, absolutely.
And the risks you are taking, Elon, I don't think many people at home actually understand the gravity of the risks you are taking because your ability to speak freely is heavily leveraged against your insignificance.
You're only allowed to speak if nobody listens to you.
And if you get big and people start listening, they're going to come at you hard.
And I think I'm not completely versed, but from what I understand, Elon's already suffering the law fair tactics, which they're going to do.
They're going to keep pulling out the hat to try and slow him down or Andrew.
No, so what Alex is saying is that, you know, Mark Bankston is suing Elon over that.
So that's the connective tissue that Alex is making.
He's trying to say that that's all being run by this PR firm out of New York.
And this is a way of connecting his own plight to Elon's plight and then making Elon more sympathetic to, oh, the way I'm being attacked is just like the way you are being attacked.
I know you got 100 irons to fire, but I've really, when you talk about we need to create a plan B for humanity, well, that's really, I mean, an alternate master plan.
Because the global is under control right now, you're trying to rest control with us helping.
I mean, when are you going to put out your battle plan, or are you already putting it out of pieces?
And in terms of, like, really trying to set up this, the way that we're going to colonize Mars, it's important that everyone's voice is heard.
So I'm going to get Laura Loomer, Jack Pesobic, a couple sex trafficking brothers, and the Krassenstein brothers together, and we're going to really get to the bottom of this thing.
lives in america and i know you know they've already enslaved the third world and then that's not how everybody who you would categorize as a lot of useful idiot global Globalists at the top are depopulationists.
It's cute that one of the Krassenstein brothers decided to try to stick up for all the globalists out there, but unfortunately he doesn't understand the way terms are used in the extreme right-wing communities where the people he's talking to exist.
These people are just battering around terms that have no consistent definitions.
It is true that if you just go based on how much space there is in the world, we could sustain a much larger population than we have.
We could have tens of billions if we just had urban population densities all over the place.
But the carrying capacity of the planet involves a whole lot of other variables that his idiotic bowling ball test doesn't take into account.
Just on a basic level, it's estimated that you need about 2.5 acres of land to feed one person per year.
There are some estimates that are lower, and there are some that are higher, depending on diet and how directly you're involved with farming, but this is a median estimate.
There are only about 11 billion acres of arable land in the world that can be used for agriculture, so that's a pretty difficult hurdle to get past in terms of this infinite population thing.
I guess you could turn to innovations to try to find a way to feed people using less land, but you've seen the way that Alex and his idiot friends have responded to synthetic meats and insect protein, which are efforts to do exactly what they would want.
Even beyond the concern about feeding all the additional people Elon wants to create, you run into so many more issues like access to water.
Climate change is exacerbating these problems as it diminishes the amount of arable land we have at our disposal and also cuts down on the amount of water that's available.
These are real problems.
And the people Alex hates so much are the ones who are trying to address the problem in a way that hurts the least people.
Promotion of access to birth control and family planning is a giant way that this can be challenged, but Alex acts like that's just an attempt to depopulate.
Working to provide better access to general health care and raising the standard of living in the developing world is another way to reduce the amount of children people have because as you become more stable, you have less kids.
He has a whole ton of kids when you expect half of them to die before the age of five and you need them to provide manual labor.
That Alex is, of course, opposed to having vaccines and health care aid given to the developing world.
These guys are absolute clowns.
Their entire premise is based around a failed understanding of a problem, which they just aggressively decide isn't a problem because they don't want to get it.
If you can drop a bowling ball and not hit somebody while flying over middle America, then the world isn't overpopulated.
These are the thoughts of a child, but they aren't really different than Alex's whole thing about Trump obviously winning the 2020 election because he had larger crowds at his rallies.
This is all about making an argument by pointing to an optical point that isn't meaningful in order to obscure the actual data that would refute their point.
And it's a, I don't know, it's a game for dullards.
I don't understand why, like, for all the bullshit I've heard from my stupid fucking government about what's dangerous, I don't understand how Elon Musk is not considered a national security threat.
I understand the fun you're having and all this, but I'm going to have to pump the brakes on this murder talk for the time being because we have more pressing things to deal with.
I think people fall in between, and they have, there's different reasons for why people might feel one way about one, you know, you could say globalist idea and another.
So, I mean, I don't like painting people like, you know, with a black and white pen because I feel that everybody falls somewhere in the middle.
There are people that want a corporate world government whose aim is depopulation and not giving the general public access to technology by lying about resources and literally saying carbon dioxide that plants breathe is evil and then telling us the world's going to end in 2030 and the ice caps are all going to melt and none of that's true.
So our children basically give up on the future and decide not to have children.
That's all I'm saying.
And Elon Musk is promoting an optimistic pro-human future that the science and evidence shows is real and that we need.
It's just it doesn't get better than a presidential candidate accidentally leaving his mic on while he's peeing as these fuckers listen to Alex Jones talk about nonsense.
I would like to say, as a technologist, and build rockets and electric cars and things that technologies that hopefully have a good effect on the world and advanced civilization, that would be my preference.
I would not like to be president.
So that would, that would, I would just like to further civilization.
I know you talk about incredible jets you want to invent, so many other things.
Is there any other big invention you've got on the drawing board in the back of your mind that you haven't announced the world that you want to tell people about today?
We do have the Neuralink chip, which I know some people might be concerned about, but that's really something that will take a very long time to be in any kind of widespread use.
We've got the first use.
The first patient will get a Neuralink chip.
This is a quadriplegic, and it will enable them to control their computer and their phone.
I mean, there's just, there's no way for that not to be a dumb idea in any kind of practice.
It's such a fun idea in a science fiction story.
And if you think that science fiction, because you're a billionaire, is anything you want it to be, then sure, you can lie to people like that and say bullshit like that.
Elon, I've got a quick, quick, quick, quick question.
You tweeted about the imprisonment of the American Chilean Gonzalo Lyra in Harkiv, Ukraine yesterday.
I'm curious if that imprisonment of an American for speaking his mind on YouTube and X has caused you to consider further support for Ukraine, albeit through Starlink or other means, and also unrelated to that, can you provide any updates about Starlink for Gaza?
Yeah, I mean, I generally think, look, look, I understand that if somebody, if an American citizen is in another country and violates that country's laws or what those countries' laws, even if their actions would not violate the laws in the United States, that that person would then be put in prison.
But in the case of Ukraine, the United States is providing a vast amount of aid to Ukraine.
And the United States government has an obligation to protect its citizens.
And so I think even if one disagrees with what that I guess YouTuber or journalist, depending on your perspective, what they posted, I feel uncomfortable sending massive aid to Ukraine if they're putting American citizens in jail for doing videos on YouTube.
If you choose to do so, you're going to be considered part of the opposing side, and you can't really be too surprised when you get arrested.
It's even more glaring when you consider that this guy is, he's also accused of spreading information about Ukrainian military movements on social media, which could constitute providing material aid to the enemy.
Now, Elon introduces an interesting thought, which is that if we give a country money, our citizens should be immune from being arrested by that country.
Alex has been someone who's provoked a lot of critical thinking from policymakers and broad audiences.
Of course, there are things that I'm going to say that would offend people, things that Alex would say that would offend people, but I think they'll just have to be offended.
I think it enriches the discussion to have Alex back.
I would say I have a philosophy of curiosity, which is, you know, trying to understand more about the nature of the universe and our place in it, and that's why I study physics, not not for career reasons, just try to try to understand how the universe actually works and what.
What has good predictive value and and physics is has got very good predictive value, so that's why I studied it.
I gotta say, listening to this also had a hilarious thing, because they keep talking about how great the spaces platform is and then the owner of the site keeps cutting out.
Yeah like, and other people are cutting out too.
It is, it's not really as remarkable as they.
They seem to be uh, saying yeah, so yeah, that's always.
That's always one of those weird ones where it's like, if you're, of all the things that people do, where it's like the CEO is giving way too much attention or anything like that.
For me, it's just like if you're going out and demonstrating the thing, you do be the best at that thing.
If you're gonna be out there doing it right, you should, you should.
Well, I mean, you now have your freedom of speech and you're here, so I think a lot of people are wondering what theory or evidence led you to believe that that was a fake uh, staged uh situation.
So Alex can't get specific without sounding like a complete idiot.
So his go-to response is always to pretend like he's already discussed the incorrect things he's believed in the past.
And if he does it, if he does it again, people will just accuse him of still believing those things.
It's a coward's move, but it's super effective as a dodge that people who aren't really curious are just going to accept.
You notice here how everybody got super defensive on Alex's behalf.
Even like, I think it was Jack Pesobic jumping in before Alex even answers.
And that's kind of because they know that any further examination of Alex's actual record will reveal that what he's been saying to Musk this whole time is a lie.
Alex's story for Musk is a constructed reality that all these right-wing scam folk have just agreed to accept as real, but deep down, they know it's not true.
The guy coming in and asking this question is kind of threatening to ruin their fun and poke holes in their illusion.
I don't know what the all-in podcast is or who this guy is, but you can tell that even before he asks the question, the panel is not excited for him to ask questions.
I'm not coming on whether I agree or disagree with his answer, but it was the very first thing that I asked when I got on this Spaces conversation, just as it was the first thing that you asked.
I think it's the first, you know, for people that care about whether there's sort of empathy and whether somebody has been cruel or mean or something, that's like the first thing they're going to ask about.
But yeah, I imagine there are things that are going to go viral.
And I love that Elon is already getting into this game that all these people play, which is the preemptive prediction of their own, like, we're going to be lied about.
Elon is somebody who has agency, which is something that, like, what, you know, a thousand people on this planet truly have, where it is, he can just be like, I don't like this thing.
I will make it end.
You know, that is a thing he can do that most of them, all of us can't do.
Because for all the talk about free speech and all of this, like, we'll follow the laws, they kind of know that if they run afoul of him, we'll do whatever Elon says.
The only reason that you're allowed there is that they recognize that whatever you're bringing to the table is not a threat and is kind of a joke to them.