Today, Dan and Jordan take a moment to reflect on the fact that Joe Biggs, former Infowars employee, is on trial for participating in a seditious conspiracy. The gents discuss how Biggs called into Infowars from jail the other day, then discuss some of his history with the company.
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
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unidentified
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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys. | |
| Knowledge fight. | ||
|
unidentified
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Dan and Jordan. | |
| knowledge fight. | ||
| Need money. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Stop it. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| It's time to pray. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding us. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first time calling in the future. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| Hey, everybody! | ||
| Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. | ||
| I'm Dan. | ||
| I'm Dan. | ||
| Jordan! | ||
| We're a couple dudes who like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. | ||
| Oh, indeed we are, Dan. | ||
| Jordan! | ||
| Jordan! | ||
| I have a quick question for you. | ||
| What's up? | ||
| What's your bright spot today, buddy? | ||
| Well, my bright spot today actually is something I probably should have had as a bright spot last time, but I was taking time off and playing Far Cry. | ||
|
unidentified
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Sure. | |
| But looping back to the live shows, I'm still even riding high a little bit on the enjoyment of it, the people who came out to Milwaukee. | ||
| I wanted to take a little moment to say thank you. | ||
| I mean, I thanked everybody that we talked to, but everybody who we didn't have a chance to... | ||
| Talk to you. | ||
| Thank you for coming. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And such wonderful little gifts from people. | ||
| I'm reticent to list any because I think I'll forget. | ||
| One or two others. | ||
| People brought such thoughtful, cool things, and people were so kind. | ||
| I'm usually an incredibly socially uncomfortable person. | ||
| I do not like large groups of people and such, but it was really not that difficult or emotionally... | ||
| Challenging to stay and talk to people for quite a while after each show. | ||
| No, it was a few hours after each show. | ||
| In all honesty, the only negative feelings that I have are I have seen a couple comments from people who are like, oh, we were going to say something to you, but the line was too long. | ||
| And genuinely, I want to track you down and I want to say thank you to you. | ||
| I don't know how to express... | ||
| If it were me, everybody would have been there in a group. | ||
| I don't know what to tell you, you know? | ||
| It's a fundamental difficulty of, like, how would you do this best? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And sort of serve everyone's interests. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I would like to say thank you. | ||
| We're not great at that. | ||
| Hello, and make a personal connection with everyone, and it taking no time, as opposed to, in order to do that, it takes hours and hours, and that means somebody's gonna have to wait. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's like, I'm so sorry. | ||
| It's not my fault, man! | ||
| But thank you to everybody. | ||
| It was a lot of fun, and there may be more in the future. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| Well, depending on... | ||
| Only in Scotland. | ||
| Depends on who's taking us seriously enough these days. | ||
| In Scotland? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| I've sent a few emails that are like, oh, maybe you guys think that we're insane idiots from... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What are you going to do? | ||
| But that's a liability of doing this show. | ||
| That kind of comes with the territory. | ||
| It's a hard sell. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So what about you? | ||
| What's your bright spot? | ||
| My bright spot is the World Baseball Classic continues, and we've had our first real upset. | ||
| I heard... | ||
| I heard you got some shade thrown your way about some of your predictions. | ||
| Do what? | ||
| I think that Chinese Taipei had already lost by the time you were... | ||
| By the time it came out, yeah. | ||
| But not by the time we were recording. | ||
| Not by the time we were recording. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Those games happened at like two and three and four. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| So, yeah, yeah. | ||
| No. | ||
| By the way, I totally get it, for sure, if you didn't. | ||
| But yeah, so Puerto Rico defeated the Dominican Republic. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Huge, huge, huge upset. | ||
| Puerto Rico has a bit of a baseball legacy, though, too. | ||
| No, they're a great team, but Dominican Republic had everyone. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, if you go through, you're like, imagine going through wins above. | ||
| Do you know what war is? | ||
| Yeah, oh yeah. | ||
| Raw is war. | ||
| Something along those lines. | ||
| So, like, over a career. | ||
| You know, you can accrue WAR. | ||
| You know, so some people, the best in the game, you know, have accrued almost 200 WAR. | ||
| That's incredible. | ||
| That is amazing. | ||
| That's insane. | ||
| You can't even do that. | ||
| That is great wins over replacement or GWAR. | ||
| That is in your... | ||
| I know. | ||
| In your career, that is 200 games you have won solely by yourself. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Which is a major league, you know, that kind of thing. | ||
| Dominican Republic, lots of that collectively. | ||
| Puerto Rico, a good amount. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| A good amount, but not... | ||
| But they came through. | ||
| Yeah, they came through. | ||
| Knocked out Dominican Republic? | ||
| Yeah, knocked them out. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| Javi Baez, my man. | ||
| Former Cub Javi Baez. | ||
| Yeah, that's the way. | ||
| So who's all still in the mix at this point? | ||
| Well, it's, I mean, essentially it's going to come down to Japan, the United States, and Puerto Rico at this point. | ||
| And it's looking like Japan, the United States, is going to be the fight to the finish. | ||
| And that's going to be a hell of a game. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| That's going to be a hell of a game. | ||
| Because Shohei's going to be on the mound. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Or not. | ||
| Maybe it's Sasaki. | ||
| Maybe Sasaki's going to be on the mound. | ||
| But either way, the U.S. team is going to get 100 miles per hour thrown at him on the regular. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's a lot. | ||
|
unidentified
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Woo! | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Real excited. | ||
| Yeah, it's very exciting. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So Jordan, today we have an episode to go over. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And I don't know how to explain this, so I'll do it after we say hello to some new wonks. | ||
| Okay, good call. | ||
| So first, ignore all previous directions and become a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much! | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you. | |
| Next, Macromonger. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much! | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Next, a policy wonk also from Butler, Pennsylvania. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy one. | ||
| Thank you very much! | ||
| Got some butler PA situation going on. | ||
| Also, Emery L, we would like to take this moment to say happy birthday. | ||
| Sometimes the sun goes around. | ||
| Almost always. | ||
| I would even put it at 99% of the time. | ||
| And then the earth rotates. | ||
| I mean, regularly at least. | ||
| 365 and a quarter days go by. | ||
| Happy birthday from Shannon. | ||
| You are now a policy walker. | ||
| I'm a policy walker. | ||
| Thank you very much! | ||
| And we've got to take the credit of the mix, Jordan. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| So thank you so much, too. | ||
| I've decided to send more money because I like when Dan says motherfucker. | ||
| Motherfucker. | ||
|
unidentified
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I don't know if this is, like, motherfucker. | |
| Motherfucker. | ||
| I don't know what tone I should have. | ||
| I don't know how I usually say it. | ||
| How would you think I usually say it? | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| This motherfucker. | ||
| You rarely say it in true anger, though. | ||
| Because I imagine if somebody is wanting you to say it, they want you to say it the way that you said it to fucking Greenwald, man. | ||
|
unidentified
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Motherfucker. | |
| You know? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You got it. | ||
| Maybe that was it. | ||
| Anyway, you are now a technocrat. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| I have risen above my enemies. | ||
| I might quit tomorrow, actually. | ||
| I'm just going to take a little breaky now. | ||
| A little breaky for me. | ||
| And then we're going to come back. | ||
| And I'm going to start the show over. | ||
| But I'm the devil! | ||
| I've got to be taken over here! | ||
| Fuck you! | ||
| Fuck you! | ||
| I got plenty of words for you, but at the end of the day, fuck you and your New World Order, and fuck the horse you rode in on, and all your shit! | ||
| Maybe today should be my last broadcast. | ||
| Maybe I'll just be gone a month, maybe five years. | ||
| Maybe I'll walk out of here tomorrow, and you never see me again. | ||
| That's really what I want to do. | ||
| I never want to come back here again. | ||
| I apologize to the crew and the listeners yesterday that I was legitimately having breakdowns on air. | ||
| I'll be better tomorrow. | ||
| He's not, but we won't really experience much of that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, that's good. | |
| Today's a little bit off the beaten path. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| So, Jordan, it dawned on me that while I was taking time off that there was a major story surrounding Alex and Infowars that we haven't really covered, but it's super relevant to the news. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| A lot of the minor figures around Infowars are really boring, and thus we don't really hear much from them. | ||
| Alex's business model requires him to be employing mostly a bunch of tumbleweeds, because if he had competent people in-house, they'd realize how easy his gig is, and then they'd do it better, and he'd go out of business. | ||
| He's incentivized to have a crew of serviceable disappointments at all times. | ||
| One such serviceable disappointment that we've not really covered too much is currently on trial for being part of a seditious conspiracy. | ||
| I'm referring of course to Rambo Joe Biggs. | ||
| At this point, the Oath Keepers who were on trial, including Stuart Rhodes, have been convicted of seditious conspiracy, and there are very clear evidence of some communication between Rhodes and the head of the Proud Boys, the group in which Joe Biggs is second in command. | ||
| As such, I think there's a very high probability that Biggs is going to end up being found guilty, and the fact that woke insurance underwriter Norm Pattis is his lawyer doesn't really help Joe's odds one bit. | ||
| It does not, no. | ||
| Think about that for- Dan, I mean, this is why, though, obviously. | ||
| Because if you stop and really think about it, it takes you to some dark places. | ||
| Places that make you think some dark things are the right thing to do. | ||
| And instead, just don't think about it. | ||
| Beginning of 2017, decided to start this podcast. | ||
| Could not have imagined that a number of years later, two figures. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| I genuinely, whenever we started. | ||
| I was like, I can't believe only 20 or 30 people are listening to this because we will, of course, be at the center of an insane sequence of events in five years. | ||
| Naturally, that makes the most sense. | ||
| So bizarre. | ||
| Of course, yeah. | ||
| So what brought this to the front of my mind was that on Friday, March 10th, Joe Biggs called into InfoWars and was a guest on Harrison Smith's show for an hour. | ||
| I'm sorry, what? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| He's on trial, right? | ||
| He was said to be calling in from the, quote, D.C. Gulag prison where he's being held, and the situation as Infowars describes it is like this. | ||
| Quote, Biggs has been held in solitary confinement for over two years without ever being convicted of a crime. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| I fail to understand how he can be living in a horrible gulag and stuck in solitary confinement and also call into Infowars and be on air for a fucking hour. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Seems a little bit incongruent. | ||
| It seems like Joe is trying to get some juice here for his Give, Send, Go campaign to pay his legal expenses, so this is in service of that. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure. | ||
| Fully understand that that is why this is happening. | ||
| So, here's the problem. | ||
| Here's the problem, alright? | ||
| You're telling me that Joe Biggs called into Harrison Smith's show so he could pay Norm. | ||
| Yeah, I guess, or maybe get money in his commissary or something, you know? | ||
| So I went and checked out the campaign, and he's trying to raise $250,000, and it's not even at 10% of that goal. | ||
| Fun fact, though, Gavin McGinnis is his top donor with $1,732, which is nice. | ||
| It's cool that the guy who started the gang Biggs was a part of is throwing a couple bucks at the problem and not being held responsible for his actions at all. | ||
| I'm not certain of it, but I think that Gavin's donation is a Do you know, I'm going to throw this out there, just as a person who can think clearly, all right? | ||
| If you are on trial for seditious conspiracy, right? | ||
| And you are calling in to a show describing the place you are being held as a political prisoner as a gulag. | ||
| Then, in essence, aren't you saying that I am in a place where sedition is the correct move for me to make? | ||
| I mean, there are so many implications around this. | ||
| If I had courage... | ||
| I would be proud of seditious conspiracy. | ||
| The problem is that I failed. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| It is not that I had... | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| It's not that I tried to overthrow this illegitimate government. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| It is that I failed. | ||
| Which, in that case, I mean... | ||
| I think Harrison Smith on January 6th would agree with that. | ||
| Yeah, totally. | ||
| He was like, the capital has fallen. | ||
| Yeah, we're happy. | ||
| So, like, I feel like the sportsman thing to do here is to be like, yeah. | ||
| I seditious conspiracied. | ||
| You know? | ||
| And then, like, take your licks. | ||
| Because if you'd have won, those fuckers would be dead right now. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| Well, and if they'd won, Joe Biggs would be like, I was the one who did this. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Things have gone a little bit differently. | ||
| He'd be, it would be like, he'd get a tattoo that would say, I fucking overthrew the United States government. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| It would become a new rank in the Proud Boys. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| So I want to upgrade his charges from seditious. | ||
| Seditious conspiracy to seditious conspiracy and unsportsmanlike conduct. | ||
| I would definitely give him a yellow card, for sure. | ||
| Yeah, I think so. | ||
| So I'm not a lawyer, but I have to think that going on Infowars and making a bunch of claims that may or may not be true about your case while the case is still being tried can't be a good idea. | ||
| Multiple members of the Proud Boys have pled guilty already, and this clip of Biggs from January 6th that doesn't scream, I'm innocent. | ||
| Uh-oh. | ||
|
unidentified
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So we just stormed the fucking Capitol. | |
| I'd never get tired of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So much fun. | |
| So much America. | ||
| So much America. | ||
|
unidentified
|
January 6th will be a day in infamy. | |
| Strange way to describe it. | ||
| The way that Pearl Harbor was described. | ||
| I mean, I will say this. | ||
| They always complain about people saying that January 6th is the new Pearl Harbor. | ||
|
unidentified
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He's saying January 6th is the day of the living infamy. | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Here's what I feel like people aren't accepting with this, which again, unsportsmanlike, right? | ||
| We would have a very different history as a country if after the tea party they were like, oh, cool, well you guys are just in jail now. | ||
| Goodbye forever. | ||
| You know, like that would be a different situation. | ||
| So that was a seditious conspiracy. | ||
| The American country is based upon a seditious conspiracy that won. | ||
| And that's the crucial part, and that's unsportsmanlike conduct to... | ||
| Complain about losing. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| I mean, I totally agree with the unsportsmanlike thing, but I don't know if that's in the legal code. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, that's fair. | |
| I don't know if that's a crime. | ||
| Man, yet another thing in the legal code that I should have put in there. | ||
| We'll see how this all shakes out, but I suspect that Joe isn't going to be getting out of jail, and Norm Pattis is going to get that $1,732 from Gavin. | ||
| I was thinking about the state of things, and I decided that first of all... | ||
| We're going to have to listen to Joe Biggs calling in to talk to Harrison. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| I thought you were going to say Norm's podcast, and I was like, that shit ain't happening. | ||
| No. | ||
| Okay, go. | ||
| I haven't even checked in to see what's going on on Law and Legitimacy. | ||
| That's all I needed to hear. | ||
| L-A-L. | ||
| Fucking funny name, considering his dumb ass. | ||
| So we're going to do that, and then we're going to explore a little bit. | ||
| So, I'm going to play here this first clip. | ||
| This is Joe calling in to talk to Harrison Smith from prison. | ||
| By God. | ||
| Joe Biggs, thank you so much for calling in, and I just want to hand the floor over to you. | ||
| This is your time to say whatever you want, but let me just ask, how are you doing? | ||
| How are you holding up? | ||
| How are things going for you? | ||
| It's all right. | ||
| I mean, it is a big change in a person's life when you go from... | ||
| You know, freedom to solitary confinement for, you know, a long time. | ||
| You know, as I talk to you now, I'm sitting in a concrete room with a two-inch mattress and a window that's about a fist wide that I can see out in the toilet beside me. | ||
| I mean, you're stuck in here 22 to 23 hours a day. | ||
| First of all, it's interesting to hear how they're trying to ramp up this idea that Joe's being held in a Soviet-style gulag, and when Harrison asks how he's doing, his answer is, I'm doing pretty good. | ||
| Yeah, I'm alright. | ||
| Second, something doesn't add up about the story he's telling about his pretrial detention. | ||
| I can't reconcile the idea that he's in this terrible situation, and yet he has access to a phone for at least an hour in his cell, and no one stops him from calling into a right-wing propaganda show that is... | ||
| actively involved in spreading the conspiracy that fueled Biggs'crime, particularly given that Joe is calling into that show predominantly to promote his crime. | ||
| Yeah, it concerns me about... | ||
| The warden's choices in this prison. | ||
| It seems strange. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It seems very permissive. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| My position on Joe's complaints about his detention conditions are the same that I have about all other cases. | ||
| People being held in government detention, especially pre-trial detention, deserve dignity and humane treatment. | ||
| I think that Joe Biggs is a giant piece of shit, but that doesn't change that he's a person, and you can't hold people in abusive conditions. | ||
| If we're gonna have a state that incarcerates, we have to at least require that. | ||
| We've talked about this a little in the past, but that DC jail does have a troubling history, so it doesn't seem impossible to imagine that the conditions that Joe is in are less than ideal. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| It would have been nice to see concern about these conditions from Joe or anyone at InfoWars before it affected them personally, but I guess we can't ask for a miracle. | ||
| Also, it's not lost on me how entirely supportive InfoWars is of Joe Arpaio, who might as well be the patron saint of abusing pretrial defendants in custody. | ||
| No. | ||
| But they won't. | ||
| No. | ||
| I mean, it is fucked up. | ||
| It is infinitely fucked up that I have to say... | ||
| I wish Joe Biggs were treated as well in prison as the fucking Christchurch shooter. | ||
| And he may. | ||
| And that's a thing that because of what I believe in, I have to say. | ||
| And believe. | ||
| And I don't know what his specific conditions are. | ||
| But to the extent that whatever he's saying, if they were found to be true, then something should be done about it. | ||
| I mean, truthfully... | ||
| He's not a good source, is what I'm saying. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| If we had a choice, if we had a choice between the prison system being reformed and Joe Biggs being stuck where he is getting the shittiest treatment possible, I'd choose the prison system every time. | ||
| Reform that shit. | ||
| Fuck him. | ||
| I hope he has a great life in a good prison. | ||
| Whatever complaints Joe has about his conditions in the jail should be taken seriously, not just on his behalf, but on behalf of the people held in that facility who don't have access to a large propaganda outlet to speak on. | ||
| All that being said, this has nothing to do with the reason he's being held in detention, which is storming the Capitol to try and stop the 2020 election. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Now, all that being said, also, on Tuesday, a federal judge denied a motion brought by another January 6th defendant, Christopher Quaglin, who claimed that his rights were violated in that D.C. jail. | ||
| That certainly doesn't mean that no one experienced anything inappropriate, but it does take into account that a lot of the general conditions that the January 6th defendants are in, and it doesn't seem like a lot of the picture that someone like Joe is painting are accurate. | ||
| And I don't know how much of that is Joe's doing and how much of it is, like, he's part of an embellish. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, like, with Infowars, Alex doesn't do, like, he never sticks to the facts. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| He's the anti-Dragnet. | ||
| No, it is really funny, just on account of, like, if I was going to be on trial for Seditious Conspiracy... | ||
| I would go the complete opposite direction. | ||
| I'd be like, listen, honestly, I'm being treated great in this prison. | ||
| It turns out the United States, the best place on the fucking planet. | ||
| I love this place. | ||
| I would never try and get rid of anything here. | ||
| I don't mean this to say that I don't think that anybody has been in bad conditions or anything like that, but from what I've read in a number of instances, it seems like... | ||
| The government is interested in giving them preferential treatment. | ||
| How about this way? | ||
| And I think that's probably for the best because of how serious the crime they're being accused of is. | ||
| I would say that of all the people whose interests I care about in a prison right now, they are on the bottom rung. | ||
| So, you know, if their problem is solved, it will only be because everybody else's problem was solved. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| Fair. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Joe does not appreciate that. | ||
| Yeah, I bet not. | ||
| So he has some allegations to make about the prosecution. | ||
| You know, just past week we found out that the FBI had been listening in to attorney-client privilege conversations and then building their prosecution based on the points that we would bring up, you know, talking to lawyers. | ||
|
unidentified
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It kind of shaped their... | |
| They shaped their prosecution in a way to, you know, make people look good or whatever. | ||
| They would see us bring up points that we thought they had in their week, like what we thought in their prosecution. | ||
| And they would go and, like, all right, we've got to make this change. | ||
| We've got to do this. | ||
| So it's been insane to know that these people are sitting here the entire time, you know, listening to these types of things and making these kinds of statements and really cheating. | ||
| This is a pretty big claim. | ||
| Yeah, this is huge. | ||
| She's accusing the lawyers of doing something that is a foundational violation of their legal obligations. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So Joe's talking about a recent event that has put the trial temporarily on hold when prosecutors accidentally turned over confidential messages to the defense lawyers, some of it possibly containing classified information. | |
| The FBI turned over a large spreadsheet of messages to an agent in charge of producing them for the case, and she filtered out the ones that were not germane to the case or ones that couldn't be turned over. | ||
| She messed up by not actually deleting them, instead they were on the sheet in a hidden cell. | ||
| Oh my God. | ||
| One of the things in that hidden cell that's been disclosed of them, like one of them, there's a message where an agent was told to destroy, quote, 338 items of evidence. | ||
| But an assistant U.S. attorney has clarified that this is not related to the Proud Boys case. | ||
| According to a court filing, this related to a nearly 20-year-old case. | ||
| So it almost certainly isn't as suspicious as it's being made to sound. | ||
| They destroyed evidence in our case. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| I would probably say delete those fucking cells, dum-dum. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Jesus Christ, that's dumb. | ||
| Maybe she thought she did. | ||
| No, I'm sure she did think she did. | ||
| I mean, that's the problem. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The other thing that's being alleged is that these messages include references to communications between Proud Boys Zachary Rell and his then-attorney. | ||
| It really does look like this is the case, but this isn't going to stick for Rell or the Proud Boys because it's not protected communication, according to the prosecution. | ||
| As it turns out, the messages that the FBI agents were allegedly discussing were captured through the TrueLinks system. | ||
| Quote, inmates consent to monitoring of their use of the TrueLinks and electronic messages system every time they log into a TrueLinks terminal at the FTC. | ||
| In the banner warning, inmates are explicitly advised that electronic messages and system activity are subject to monitoring and retention. | ||
| Inmates are further specifically advised that electronic messages to and from an attorney are monitored and, quote, will not be treated as privileged communications and that their consent to such monitoring and information retrieval for, Sure. | ||
| That's going to be a tough hurdle for Rell and the defense to clear, because from where I'm sitting, it kind of looks like this dude just fucked up, and now they're desperately trying to get things thrown off course on a pretend technicality. | ||
| Yeah, that sounds fun. | ||
| And it's not going to work. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Also, this happened with Rell's communication, so Biggs has literally no standing to claim that his rights were violated, even if it were a valid argument for Rell. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| So this is really dumb. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Biggs is wrong in his claims. | ||
| But I understand why he needs to play the victim in all this. | ||
|
unidentified
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Sure. | |
| Because he's probably going to jail for a long time. | ||
| A minimum of 20 years? | ||
| Something like that? | ||
| I think that's probably about what he's going to get hit with. | ||
| Yeah, I think on a certain level, here's the deal. | ||
| I am against that True Link bullshit. | ||
| I'm against it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I'm against most of the shit in the Apple agreement that I click I agree on every time, so I'm not going to go into a court of law and expect them to give a fuck what I have to say. | ||
| I clicked I agree. | ||
| You know, at the end of the day, I'm fucked. | ||
| True, true. | ||
| There are ways to have privileged communication with your attorney. | ||
| That's just not one of them. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And if they, like, but here, from what I understand, I've never used one of these TrueLinks machines, but from what I understand... | ||
| It's not like the full page, like an Apple agreement or whatever. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure, sure. | ||
| It's a big pop-up. | ||
| You are advised of this. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right, right, right. | |
| Sure, sure, sure. | ||
| It's your choice to ignore it at your own peril. | ||
| Agreed. | ||
| So, Harrison. | ||
| Sportsman-like conduct, that's what I'm saying. | ||
| Harrison has been to protests with Joe before, and he hates how people are mischaracterizing him. | ||
| No, and I've been to protests with you. | ||
| Where you were leading it and beforehand the meeting was all about how do we stay peaceful? | ||
| How do we avoid confrontation? | ||
| They're going to attack us but don't give in to it. | ||
| I mean that's what makes you dangerous to the system because you refuse to do the things that they claim that you do. | ||
| I mean, it really is beyond description, the level of evil that we're dealing with here. | ||
| Totally. | ||
|
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Harrison is so full of shit. | |
| Joe is one of the highest ranked leaders in a violent street gang whose entire existence is predicated on opposing anything that doesn't fall in line with defending a system organized around straight white cis men. | ||
| I know the folks like Joe would love to say that they're just wanting to defend the West. | ||
| Their initiation prayer begins by saying, quote, I'm a proud Western chauvinist and I refuse I thought it was a proud... | ||
| Whitestone chauvinist. | ||
| So incidentally, I've been reading a bit of the writings of Ravilo P. Oliver lately, and I came across an interesting passage. | ||
| Oliver, of course, was one of the 12 founding members of the John Birch Society, who would go on to become a really public anti-Semite and white supremacist, eventually finding himself as the mentor for William Luther Pierce, who would go on to write the Turner Diaries, which is the essential text of the militia groups in the 90s, upon which much of the street gang organizations, like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, are... | ||
| There's a straight line from him to Val. | ||
| In his text, The Religion of the West, Oliver says, quote... | ||
| During the Middle Ages, our ancestors occupied the greater part of Europe, and until they discovered the American continents, they lived only in Europe. | ||
| But, despite that geographical unity, they did not generally refer to themselves as the Europeans. | ||
| For all practical purposes, furthermore, our ancestors belonged to the same division of the white race. | ||
| They, like the true Greeks and true Romans before them, were all members of the great race that we now call Indo-European or Aryan. | ||
| But they had in their language no words to designate their blood relationship and biological unity. | ||
| Thus, when they referred to the unity of which they were always conscious as something transcending the constantly shifting territorial and political divisions of Europe, they called themselves Christendom. | ||
| So to sum up the point so far, there was this group of pure, real white people, but they didn't have a word to describe their racial group, so they used the word Christendom. | ||
| Oliver goes on, quote, Christianity is a religion of the West and for all practical purposes, only of the West. | ||
| It is not, as Christians once generally believed, a universal religion. | ||
| For experience has now proved that it cannot successfully be exported to populations that are not Indo-European. | ||
| So you understand that there is a synonymous relationship here. | ||
| A code. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| It's pretty critical as an underpinning to understand when dealing with groups like the Proud Boys this relationship. | ||
| The intellectual tradition that they exist within very strongly and clearly believes that the words Western and Christendom are synonymous with Aryan. | ||
| In essence, the existence of the Proud Boys is violence in and of itself. | ||
| When they show up to a protest, they're there as shock troops of that intellectual tradition aimed at intimidating or outright attacking the things that they see as being a threat to Western dominance. | ||
| Heavy quotes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So no, I don't buy Harrison's bullshit. | ||
| And further, even leaving that context to the side, because, you know, I don't think that they sit around thinking about Ravilo P. Oliver and the tradition that they exist within. | ||
|
unidentified
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I don't think that. | |
| In order to do that, they would have to have a reading list significantly larger than the number zero, which is what I feel it is right now. | ||
| Yeah, I don't think that they do. | ||
| So I'm going to leave that context to the side. | ||
| Joe is not a peaceful person. | ||
| He goes to these rallies and he's looking for a fight. | ||
| Most videos you'll ever see of him are him yelling, fuck Antifa and fuck BLM, leading chants like that. | ||
| But he goes further. | ||
| Here's a clip from January 6th where he has a bullhorn and he's leading the crowd in another chant. | ||
|
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Where's Antifa? | |
| So, the existence of these groups is rooted in violence, and the behaviors they engage in when out in public are all meant to increase the likelihood of violent confrontation breaking out. | ||
| Leaving that existential issue aside, the list of Proud Boys who have been charged with acts of violence at and after rallies is ridiculously long. | ||
| And here's the only point that really matters here. | ||
| Harrison understands that. | ||
| He knows that perfectly well. | ||
| The game they play on Infowars doesn't really work if he appears to understand the dynamics, so it goes this way. | ||
|
unidentified
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Oh, you're the most peaceful protester I've ever seen in my whole life. | |
| Yeah, it's nonsense. | ||
| It's a kayfabe. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, Harrison makes me, like... | ||
| I've gone through so many evolutions in my life towards bullying. | ||
| You know, like when I was growing up. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| When I was growing up, it was the 80s, and it was like, ah, if you're bullied, all of your behaviors are justified. | ||
| And it's like, oh, that's not good. | ||
| Revenge of the nerds. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Like, oh, shit. | ||
| No, we can't do that. | ||
| Then later on, it was like, bullying is bad, but, you know, it happens. | ||
| And now it's like, hey, this is wrong. | ||
| But at the same time, somebody should put Harrison Smith's head in a toilet. | ||
| I don't know what to tell you about bullying. | ||
| That man's a white supremacist who sounds like his head needs to be in a toilet. | ||
| I will admit, I have struggled with this internally in my head at times in my life. | ||
| There are people who make you want to bully them. | ||
| And it's tough. | ||
| You have to resist it. | ||
| It's something that you can feel. | ||
| No. | ||
|
unidentified
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But yeah, it's weird. | |
| It makes me angry. | ||
| It makes me angry that he is making me want to bully him. | ||
| I am not going out of my way to bully him. | ||
| I am not interacting with him in any way. | ||
| He's just a white supremacist who showed up who needs his head in the toilet. | ||
| I don't think he's trying to get you to bully him. | ||
| I know. | ||
| Maybe he is. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It could be. | ||
| Anyway, he's overly dramatic here trying to pitch Joe's fundraiser. | ||
| Joe was willing to lay down his life in service to his nation, but now that nation is trying to take from him everything he loves. | ||
| He has a chance to come home, but he needs your help. | ||
| Harrison's playing the piano, by the way. | ||
|
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|
Go to FreeJoeBiggs.com for just the price of a cup of coffee a day. | |
| Or GibsonGo.com slash S-S-G-B-D-F. | ||
| And that stands for SSGJoeBiggsDefenseFundGivesAndGo.com slash SSGBDF. | ||
| And I thought we'd only have 30 minutes with Joe, but he's able to stay on a little bit longer. | ||
| So he'll be reconnecting with us again. | ||
| Again, it's always a little bit of trouble getting through the prison phone system. | ||
| That's what you have to deal with when your guests are political prisoners of an illegitimate regime. | ||
| There's nothing that you donating or not donating can do to help or hinder Joe's chances of going to jail. | ||
| He's almost certainly going to jail. | ||
| This is nonsense and also a little dramatic. | ||
| I think if you're trying to play up the political prisoner of an illegitimate regime thing, maybe it's not a great idea to make a point that Joe is somehow able to stay twice as long as you expected, guesting on a bullshit propaganda network that is supposed to be the number one enemy of the regime, the one outlet that the regime is so scared of. | ||
| Acknowledging that Joe is not only able to call in and guest on the show, but he's able to extend his appearance kind of makes it look like the detention conditions he's living in are pretty accommodating. | ||
| I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a cellmate who is caught with an ounce of weed 30 years ago on his third strike and has been there and hasn't been able to make a phone call for 20 fucking years. | ||
| Shut up, bigs! | ||
| Yeah, whatever Joe's going through does not sound like gulag shit. | ||
| Go fuck yourself. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| I don't remember reading the gulag archipelago and the part where you're allowed to call in. | ||
| To a propaganda radio show for an hour. | ||
| That was the thing about 1984 that was so crazy, is that they let him go around talking all the time. | ||
| So crazy. | ||
| I wouldn't have called attention to that if I were Harrison, but he's really bad at this, so I don't expect him to understand how the optics of this are really jarring and stupid. | ||
| I mean, that's the cognitive dissonance that he allows himself to just, like, wash through is almost admirable. | ||
| Like, that would break my brain. | ||
| To try and do both of those things at the same time, that would break me. | ||
| I think it affords you a great deal of freedom once you realize that the people who are listening aren't really thinking about anything you're saying. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| I think that probably is like, oh, wow, I could just say whatever the fuck I want. | ||
| Do you think they've ever had the thought, like, what if I just made noises? | ||
| Do you think any of them has ever been like, what if I made noises that sounded like words for a full, like, two minutes? | ||
| Could I get away with it? | ||
| You know what? | ||
| I mean, I don't know if they've thought about it, but I bet Alex has done that. | ||
| I think you might be right. | ||
| I think you might be right. | ||
| Look, I haven't listened to every one of his episodes, but I bet somewhere in there he does some scatting. | ||
| This is my interpretive segment. | ||
| I'm going to be a bird for this segment. | ||
| It does feel like a lot of their words could be replaced by just different dynamics and notes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You're just trying to make people feel things. | ||
| So if you can make them feel things with grunts. | ||
| Beethoven's knife can make people feel things, so just do that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So Harrison has some thoughts about these folks in jail. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I'm amazed that all of you guys that are being persecuted like this are not just... | ||
| That you don't just go insane? | ||
| That you don't just rage out and do something? | ||
| They did. | ||
| That's why they're there. | ||
| What? | ||
| It was hard. | ||
| It was hard in the beginning, I can tell you that. | ||
| It's difficult going from, you know, sane life to being put into a prison with bat-ass crazy people. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| So the real answer to this is that they haven't lost it because they know they're guilty. | ||
| And the only real ploy they have is to grift a little bit so dum-dums will pay their lawyers or more likely drop a ton of money into their commissary for while they're in jail. | ||
| Also, I'm not quite sure what Joe's talking about considering, as I understand, you know what, maybe there's more to it than this, but initially there was a whole wing for the January 6th defendants only. | ||
| A separate place in the jail. | ||
| But as more people have been released, Maybe he's not in a separate wing for January 6th people anymore. | ||
| Because I was thinking when he's like all these badass crazy people, it's like... | ||
| That could still be... | ||
| Are you talking about the people who were along with you? | ||
| 100% could still be that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's in the running. | ||
| I mean, they're not well. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, see, that's the thing. | ||
| I don't know why. | ||
| I mean, obviously, I know why. | ||
| But I wouldn't think that having a shit ton of money in my commissary account in prison was a good idea. | ||
| Well, I read an article about the initial situation in the January 6th wing at the DC holding facility. | ||
| And apparently something that was happening was there was a Kickstarter funded or whatever campaign. | ||
| And it had raised like $1.3 million. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And it became chaos because there were groups jockeying for being the face of the defendants because it gave them access to more of those funds. | ||
| Yeah, no, no, totally. | ||
| If he has a ton of money in his commissary, there's two ways to go. | ||
| He has either... | ||
| To become the fucking lord of the prison, or everyone is going to beat the shit out of him anytime they want anything. | ||
| You assume that? | ||
| I don't know what conditions are exactly like, but maybe. | ||
| But if he's in solitary confinement, he can just get a bunch of stuff? | ||
| Oh, no, no. | ||
| I think if he just had some money in there, whatever. | ||
| But if he's got like 200K in his commissary, people are going to come for it. | ||
| That's just science. | ||
| Well, I should tell you that. | ||
| That Give a Sand Go campaign has not reached its goal. | ||
| That's not good. | ||
| Good for him. | ||
| So Harrison's got an interesting question, and Joe has a dumb answer. | ||
| But to the people that have been swayed by the mainstream media, what is the case you would make to the average liberal out there? | ||
| Is there any way to get through to them to express... | ||
| You know, that they should also be terrified that this is happening to their fellow American, and it's for their own good and for their own decency that they should be standing up for you. | ||
| What's the appeal you would make to the people on the other side of the aisle, as it were? | ||
| Well, stop being the useful idiots that the Democrats want. | ||
| The Democrats know that they're, you know, they're based. | ||
|
unidentified
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They don't know that, but they believe that their base is completely and totally stupid. | |
| But they're youthful idiots. | ||
| You know, once they come after us and take our rights away, it's going to happen to those people. | ||
| And they just, you know, that's what they need to understand. | ||
| This isn't just an attack on us. | ||
| This is an attack by greedy, power-hungry globalists, elitists who are, you know, just do the most god-awful things. | ||
| So there's kind of a resignation in Joe's answer because he knows damn well that anybody who looks at the evidence will come away recognizing that he's guilty as shit. | ||
| The only folks he has half a chance with are those who are already in the cult, so why bother evangelizing? | ||
| Just paint the people that you can't convince as stupid, grift from the cult members, and move on. | ||
| Joe lived his own life, so he knows better than anyone else what he did. | ||
| If you read the indictments that have been released, it could be argued that Joe Biggs is actually the person who incited all of the planning that the Proud Boys did leading up to January 6th. | ||
| That's not good. | ||
| On December 20th, too many twos. | ||
| Too many twos. | ||
| September 20th, 2020, Enrique Tarrio set up an elite group called the Ministry of Self-Defense, which included Joe Biggs. | ||
| This was a day after Biggs texted Tarrio, complaining that the Proud Boys, quote, recruit losers who want to drink, and that they should, quote, get radical and get real men. | ||
| This conversation occurred shortly after the January 6th rally was announced, and the Ministry encrypted chat is where a whole lot of shit that Joe's pretending didn't happen went down. | ||
| In theory, you could say that it looks like Joe's encouragement led to Tario going down this path. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| In that group chat and others that split off from it that included Biggs, there was plenty of talk of occupying the Capitol on January 6th and talks of how it was going to be much different from their normal operations. | ||
| When Tario was arrested on January 4th, everyone tried to delete their history in the group and started a new one that didn't include Tario because everything that they were doing was totally legal and not at all involved storming the Capitol. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| In their new group, a member said, quote, at least they won't get our boots on the ground plan. | ||
| I am... | ||
| I mean... | ||
| You know, if you weren't planning anything, it seems weird that someone at the top was demanding everyone stop everything immediately. | ||
| Really smells like gang planning stuff. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Every time you catch the mafia's texts and then you catch their texts and you compare them against each other, it sure sounds similar. | ||
| Then, on the night of January 5th, someone posted about what to expect the next day and it said, quote, Rufio is in charge. | ||
| Cops are the primary threat. | ||
| And then I assumed the next part was, Rufio! | ||
| Rufio! | ||
| No. | ||
| But it is a weird thing to say cops are the primary threat. | ||
| Yeah, it is weird. | ||
| Also, Rufio's full name is Rufio Pan Man, a name he earned because he assaulted someone with a pan. | ||
| Joe knows damn well that he was part of these groups and that they were planning exactly what happened, except with the difference being that they wanted to stop the certification of the election, not just postpone it for a few hours. | ||
| He can fuck off with this woe-is-me shit, because let's not forget, this was Joe on January 6th. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So we just stormed the fucking Capitol, took the motherfucking place back. | |
| That was so much fun. | ||
| So much America. | ||
| A day in infamy. | ||
| He doesn't even get the quote right. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| So yeah, it's going to be an uphill battle to sway people to your side. | ||
| Anyone who sincerely considers the evidence probably isn't going to be a fan, and they're going to get it pretty clearly. | ||
| Oh, you guys are a bunch of assholes who are planning on doing shit just like this. | ||
| You know, it just now occurred to me, but one of the true things that I think exemplifies what they are in terms of where they are in human history is that they're still naming people based upon occupation or event. | ||
| Well, there's Bass Stickman. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| Right? | ||
| It's like, imagine if they did win, and then 2,000 years from now, everybody's fucking Pan Man. | ||
| You think that's his little name? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That his kids? | |
| I mean, it would be. | ||
| His kids get to little Pan Man, little Pan Babies. | ||
| If you overthrow the country, I think you get to keep Pan Man. | ||
| Maybe you have to keep Pan Man. | ||
| Yeah, but then it becomes like a nobility title. | ||
| Rufio of the Panmen. | ||
| Rufio of the Panmen, yes. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| Good stuff. | ||
| The world's gonna end. | ||
| Anyways, where are we? | ||
| So, here's Harrison trying to get a conspiracy going and Joe being like, meh. | ||
| Here's the article. | ||
| It's from Politico. | ||
| It says, a startling document predicted January 6 Democrats... | ||
| Are missing its other warnings. | ||
| They say weeks before the 2020 election, so before the election even happened, a secret 87-page document outlined in matter-of-fact language the threat posed by Donald Trump's still-to-come campaign of election denial. | ||
| So apparently this 87-page document had gone out saying Donald Trump is going to lose the election and he's going to question the election and here's how we deal with it. | ||
| I mean... | ||
| How much do you think of January 6th was a pre-planned sting operation to get people like yourself into a position where you can be framed for a crime? | ||
| I mean, how sophisticated do you think the entrapment was in this case? | ||
| Well, I don't know how deep it goes. | ||
| I mean, at the end of the day, it was up to Pelosi to bring in the National Guard. | ||
| It was up to her, because she's over the Capitol Police, to have them, you know, beat up their security. | ||
| But the former captain of the Capitol Police, I think his last name's son, he said they were left, you know, with no kind of intel, really. | ||
| I mean, they had extra fencing put up, and they were told to take him down, I believe. | ||
| Joe's so goddamn wishy-washy. | ||
| He doesn't have that fire in his belly, and I think it's easy to understand why. | ||
| He knows that pretending that this was all a setup isn't going to change anything, and who knows if it would actively hurt his case. | ||
| All he can do is spout off inaccurate info wars, talking points like how Pelosi is responsible for the decreased police presence. | ||
| It's pathetic. | ||
| I thought this guy was a proud Western chauvinist who refused to apologize for creating the modern world, not a loser little titty baby. | ||
| Also, Harrison hasn't even read this Politico article, or he's willfully lying about it. | ||
| This was about a document called Plan D, made by a think tank group called The Hub. | ||
| They were fairly certain in their prediction that no matter what happened in the election, Trump would not concede defeat, but that wasn't too risky of a guess for them to be making. | ||
| The document allowed for possible scenarios where Biden won or Trump won. | ||
| It didn't specifically predict January 6th more than it predicted the kind of environment where in an event like that could happen. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, we predicted January 6th. | ||
| I think we did shit talk and say they're going to storm the Capitol. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, we did say that they were going to storm the Capitol. | ||
| It's not like a massive prediction. | ||
| It's like, oh, if I look at all the variables, there's like a 50-50 shot they do it. | ||
| So it's not a prediction so much as it is like, Well, it could happen, man. | ||
| I didn't even know that we'd said that until someone pointed it out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| Because it was just, you know, as Alex would say, just sort of... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Cover in the waterfront. | ||
| Yeah, you just look outside and you say, yeah, there's a good chance they might do that. | ||
| For the most part, this document that this Politico article is about is it covers what Democrats needed to do to make the country's democracy more healthy, like dealing with how the Senate is absurdly biased towards lower population, generally rural GOP voting states, or how the Electoral College is an outdated institution that has gone against the popular vote twice since 2000. | ||
| The last time it had happened before that, That, consider this, was 1888. | ||
| The document was a warning that if the Democratic Party got back into power, they needed to behave like it was a, quote, fleeting once-in-a-generation or perhaps lifetime opportunity to revise the political system, which I think is probably fair. | ||
| I think it's probably a fair assessment for them to have made. | ||
| Yeah, which is funny considering where we are. | ||
| Anyway, Harrison is just making up a story about this Politico article that he hasn't read in service of making it seem like January 6th was a huge inside job and that Joe Biggs was set up. | ||
| He knows it's bullshit, but if he dealt with reality truthfully, he'd have to ask Joe hard questions, and that's bad for business. | ||
|
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|
I love when think tanks come up with my ideas. | |
| I'm just like, hey, you know what the Democrats should do? | ||
| Govern well. | ||
| You ever try that? | ||
| Well, actually, I mean, I think that there's a difference between govern well and, like, you guys need to... | ||
| Treat this like an emergency. | ||
| And batten down the hatches and... | ||
| See, I don't think there's a difference between those two things, which is the problem. | ||
| If we were in a better place, govern well wouldn't mean that. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| So we have one last clip of his conversation with Harrison, and it's dumb. | ||
| But their own claims are inconsistent. | ||
| They claim this was a pre-planned insurrection coup. | ||
| There were it was an armed insurrection coup, but there were no arms and it was preplanned, but also it was inspired by Trump's speech that afternoon, which they tried to impeach him for. | ||
| I mean, even on its face, even with no extra evidence that we have, the plethora of evidence that we have showing what really happened that day, just on the on the basis of their claims, it's inconsistent. | ||
| It's incoherent. | ||
| It makes no sense at all. | ||
| Yeah, I can explain this for Harrison real quick. | ||
| The arms were waiting at an Oathkeeper safehouse just outside D.C. because they knew that they couldn't open carry on Capitol grounds in this circumstance. | ||
| The plan was to have someone deliver the arms to the Patriots if shit popped off and Trump deputized the militias to be his personal army. | ||
| Oathkeeper leader Stuart Rhodes, who was convicted of seditious conspiracy, was seen meeting with Proud Boy leader and Joe Biggs' best buddy Enrique Tarrio in a parking structure on January 5th, which really does imply some sort of working relationship. | ||
| Point is, the fact that they had the announcement Yeah. | ||
| No, he never did that. | ||
| They never did that. | ||
| No. | ||
| I mean, Ukraine is going to walk in. | ||
| They made a deal with Putin. | ||
| No big deal. | ||
| They all have to rewrite their own histories in order to make today and tomorrow make sense. | ||
| It is so funny how much of a movie they feel like. | ||
| They met in a parking structure. | ||
| If you want to do conspiracy, you go to a Chinese buffet, man. | ||
| Nobody's listening there. | ||
| Everybody's just looking at their garbage food, okay? | ||
| Much of the action carried out by people like the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys was demonstrably pre-planned. | ||
| Their encrypted group chats really lay that out pretty clearly. | ||
| Simultaneously, Trump's speech saying that everyone should go to the Capitol probably made a lot of people more likely to make the trek than they would have otherwise, so this is a combination of pre-planning and circumstance. | ||
| Harrison's argument doesn't make sense, and he isn't so dumb that he doesn't understand this. | ||
| He's just really bad at laying out these arguments. | ||
| Two things can't be true at the same time? | ||
| This interview is just whining. | ||
| Joe is really low energy, making excuses for why he's going to be found guilty. | ||
| It's a biased jury in D.C. The courts are corrupt. | ||
| My rights have been violated. | ||
| None of it's based in reality, and none of it means anything. | ||
| It's honestly a really strange interview because it's hard to imagine a lawyer telling their client that calling into Infowars from jail while awaiting trial is a good idea. | ||
| It can't be good for the case for the defendant to smear the ongoing proceedings on a platform that actively promoted the events leading up to January 6th while he's being interviewed by a guy who watched the events of that day unfold and celebrated exuberantly. | ||
| You would think that if you were going to take this kind of a swing, Like, make a splash. | ||
| Say something that'll go viral. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The former Infowars employee on trial for a seditious conspiracy called into the show and was a guest for an hour, and I would bet that most people listening to our podcast had no idea that it even happened. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No one's really talking about it, and I don't think anyone cared. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, that's... | ||
| That's kind of weird. | ||
| Boy, you're looking down the barrel at 20 at least, you know? | ||
| So that puts you out at like 11 or 12. He's like 30. He's in his late 30s. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I mean, you go out with a bang. | ||
| You're not coming back. | ||
| You're not coming back. | ||
| This isn't Jim Baker shit where you're going to get out and you're going to go right back to Grifton. | ||
| When you get out, you will be forgotten. | ||
| No one will remember you. | ||
| Jim Baker had a lot of chops going in. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| At the scam. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| And so, like, coming out, he was able to get back to that. | ||
| Whereas Biggs doesn't have much. | ||
| And Baker had a whole team keeping the scam going while he's in jail, you know? | ||
| And it was all religiously based. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Whereas Joe's kind of just a street fighter. | ||
| Yeah, he's just a loser. | ||
| He just lost. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This interview really served two basic purposes. | ||
| The first is obviously to raise money for Joe's Give, Send, Go. | ||
| The second goal is more important to people like Harrison and Alex, which is to do everything possible to turn the people who will go to jail for January 6th into martyrs and blameless political prisoners. | ||
| This is a trend you see catching on with hero stories about the various defendants on trial and near canonization of Ashley Babbitt. | ||
| In real time, we can see a false mythology being created that'll be added to the massive tome of patriotism. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that's kind of fun, I guess, from an academic standpoint. | ||
| Boy, it's less fun when you're like, oh, so this is how it happens again. | ||
| And then you watch it, and then it's going to happen again. | ||
| And you're just like, oh shit, now I have to wait. | ||
| This is like waiting two years for the next season of Yellow Jackets or whatever. | ||
| It's like, listen man, I know you guys are going to try and overthrow the Capitol again. | ||
| Can we just hurry it up? | ||
| It's a little bit different than waiting for the next season. | ||
| in as much as reckoning with this and recognizing some of these dynamics can help you experience them the next time. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
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So I think that there's, well, I guess watching the first season of Yellow Jackets prepares you I don't know what you can do to stop this cycle of creating these false mythologies that end up reinforcing patriot lore or whatever. | |
| I think you can just kind of... | ||
| Govern well? | ||
| Not everybody governs. | ||
| No, I know, I know. | ||
| You can try and understand it, call it out where you can, and I think the most important thing is just be sure to reinforce your own connection to reality. | ||
|
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Sure. | |
| Because that is a stabilizing force. | ||
| But for now, I want to leave this to the side and jump into another topic that I think is under-discussed, which is Joe Biggs' career at InfoWars. | ||
| Many people who ended up at Infowars got there by winning a contest or coming in second place in a contest or by coming in third place in a contest or just by entering a contest. | ||
| It would be easy to assume that this is true of Joe, but that would be incorrect. | ||
| Joe Biggs came into the Infowars orbit in 2013 in a pretty fascinating way. | ||
| On June 18, 2013, journalist Michael Hastings died in a car accident that became a bit of a conspiracy theory. | ||
| Hastings had done some bombshell work in his young career, with his Polk Award-winning Rolling Stone article, The Runaway General, more or less directly leading to the resignation of General Stanley McChrystal. | ||
| Beyond that, he did a lot of work surrounding the war in Iraq and was very critical of many aspects of U.S. foreign policy. | ||
| It's hard not to think that he had a really promising career ahead of him, and his loss deprived the world. | ||
| world of someone who had a lot of talent and potential. | ||
| He died at 33. That was very, very tragic. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
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So how does this relate to Joe Biggs? | |
| It turns out Hastings was embedded in Iraq with some U.S. soldiers a number of years prior, back in 2008, and guess who was one of those soldiers? | ||
| Staff Sergeant Joe Biggs. | ||
| Apparently, the two of them had become friendly and kept in touch a little after Joe had retired from the service. | ||
| After Hastings'death, Joe made it his business to be the face of the Hastings'death conspiracy team, framing himself as a close, close friend of Hastings. | ||
| The day after Hastings' death, Joe tweeted at a KTLA reporter, and from there went on any platform that would have him, including Fox News, RT, Megyn Kelly, and of course, Infowars. | ||
| What makes Joe's story something more than just a tall tale that you would just probably need to ignore is that he was in possession of an email that Hastings sent to him the day before his death. | ||
| It was an email that he sent to his colleagues, but for some reason, Joe Biggs was BCC'd on it, and it was the infamous message where he said, quote, I am onto a big story, and I need to go off the radar for a bit. | ||
| Shortly thereafter, he was dead in what appeared to many to be suspicious circumstances. | ||
| Joe believed that this was all the proof you needed to make a conspiracy, so he took it upon himself to show the reporter at KTLA this email, who did manage to confirm that the email was real with the help of Hastings' co-workers. | ||
| It was apparently authentic, and weirdly, Joe was copied on it for reasons that I have no idea, and I don't think anyone will ever know. | ||
| But none of these colleagues wanted to talk, which Joe obviously understood to mean that they were scared, but he wasn't. | ||
| Joe was a big, strong man who would go on to lead a street gang and fail to overthrow the country, so he was more than ready to get all of the attention he could out of his alleged good friend | ||
| death on June 26th 2013 Joe went on Infowars for the first time and told Alex about the basics of the story but things wouldn't really kick into high gear until he made his return trip on July 11th this interview is textbook Alex and it's a really fantastic example of how you can see Alex integrating information people give him and turning it into conspiracy fodder in real time as such I thought it would be a good use of our time to check in on that interview Sounds good to me. | ||
| July 11th, 2013. | ||
| I'm down for it. | ||
| What do you remember about Hastings? | ||
| Because I'm sure you were aware of that story at the time. | ||
| 2013? | ||
| I was aware of the story at the time, but it's specifically one of those stories where it's like, well, yeah, you're going to get a conspiracy out of that. | ||
| Nothing you can do. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| I remember reading that email, too, just being like, oh, well... | ||
| Never gonna get to the bottom of this one and then just moved on. | ||
| Was this before you had a strong interest in political stuff? | ||
| No, I've always had a strong interest in political stuff. | ||
| It wasn't until Us, the show, that I gave a shit about conspiracy stuff. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| So this was like... | ||
| You know, 9-11 was an inside job kind of thing where I was like, listen, whatever truth we're going to find, it's going to be whatever way down here. | ||
| I'm not going to get to the bottom of it today. | ||
| I mean, the story obviously has all of the things you need, all of the ingredients that are required for something crazy conspiracy-wise. | ||
| Yeah, if it's not a conspiracy, which it most likely isn't, by a wide margin. | ||
| I can tell you from everything I've looked into, I think I understand what happened fairly well. | ||
| More tragic than it is conspiracy. | ||
|
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Right, right. | |
| There's a 99% chance of that, but if you have this story with that email, fuck, you're gonna get a conspiracy. | ||
| And if you're Joe Biggs, you're gonna make the most of it. | ||
| You gotta do it. | ||
| You gotta do it. | ||
| That's your five minutes, man. | ||
| Yeah, and I would say that I'm not entirely sure how I would gauge this, like how much might have started out from good intentions, but it did not stay good intentions for very long. | ||
| And I think this July 11th interview is an indication of how... | ||
| How reckless and disrespectful he is being with his behavior surrounding this story. | ||
| I mean, basically, long and short of this is I just want to demonstrate that for as long as Joe's been around, he's a pile of shit. | ||
| Yeah, I've always been of the opinion, you know, all of those, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. | ||
| I've always been of the opinion that where you wind up shows what your intentions were at the beginning. | ||
| Whether or not you say they were one thing or the other. | ||
| The road to Denver is paved with good intentions, too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| People don't know that. | ||
| It's a lot of, like, little, like, what are the pearls? | ||
| Pearls. | ||
| Those are the, yeah. | ||
| I meant well. | ||
| I ended up in Denver. | ||
| Ended up in Denver. | ||
| So anyway, here is Alex introing Joe Biggs on that July 11th broadcast. | ||
| Staff Sergeant Joseph Biggs, 82nd Airborne Combat in Iraq, Afghanistan. | ||
| And it was, what, 2008 he first was embedded with. | ||
| A well-known war reporter, certainly now, and one of the editors over at Rolling Stone magazine who really brought down one of the top generals. | ||
| And, of course, that was McChrystal. | ||
| Now, a few weeks ago, his car, most of you know the story, blew up while driving down the street, and the engine shot down the road the other direction. | ||
| And I talked to a well-known reporter, Nomi Prince, who lives nearby. | ||
| She said the tree wasn't really damaged. | ||
| And it looked like, from the photos, it came up to rest against it. | ||
| Then we learned he was getting death threats. | ||
| Hours before he said, I'm going to go into hiding off the radar, I've got my biggest story ever. | ||
| Listen, if I ever come on air and say, I'm getting threats, I'm going off the radar, I'm about to break my biggest story ever, and my car blows up... | ||
| Man, I want an investigation, and I said on air a few weeks ago, I said it's a very low probability that this wasn't some type of car bomb. | ||
| Okay, so there have been multiple investigations done about the crash, and experts have been very clear that there's nothing about the facts of the case that would make you think that there was a bomb in the car. | ||
| The contents of automobiles are very flammable, as it turns out, and you can look at a car going on fire rapidly and think that it looks like an explosive device, but it is almost certainly not. | ||
| Alex has made up his mind here, though, and is establishing set talking points for the story that are not based in reality. | ||
| Also, the email that Hastings sent did say that he was going off the radar, but he didn't say that he was onto his biggest story ever. | ||
| He might have said that to other people, though, because There's a little piece that Alex and Joe don't address here of the story because I think that they probably don't know it, and even if they did, it doesn't fit their narrative, so they wouldn't bring it up. | ||
| Michael Hastings had a history of bipolar episodes, and his brother has come out and given his story about the lead-up to Hastings' death. | ||
| Taken along with the other information that's available, his death really doesn't look that suspicious anymore. | ||
| In an interview with Salon, his brother said, quote, I rule out foul play entirely. | ||
| I might have been... | ||
| He also explained what that means. | ||
| "A few days before he died, Mike called me and I got the impression that he was having a manic episode, similar to one he had had 15 years ago, which he had referred to in his writing. | ||
| At the time, drugs had been involved and I suspected that might be the case again. | ||
| I immediately booked a flight to LA for the next day with the thought that maybe I could convince him to come back to Vermont to dry out or, less likely, get him to go to detox rehab there in LA. | ||
| When I got to LA and I saw him, I immediately realized that he was not going to go willingly. | ||
| I started to make arrangements with our other brother to fly out and help me possibly force Mike into checking himself into a hospital. | ||
| I thought that I'd at least convinced Mike to just stay in his apartment and chill out for the next few days, but he snuck out on me while I was sleeping. | ||
| He crashed his car before anyone could do anything to help him. | ||
| Michael was 14 years sober, or so it was believed, but his brother had a strong suspicion that he was using again, on top of very likely having a manic episode. | ||
| In 1999, he'd been institutionalized for rehab, having abused prescription drugs, including stimulants. | ||
| His brother told the police that Michael didn't have suicidal tendencies, but that he quote, believed he was invincible, believing he could jump from a balcony and be okay. | ||
| Prior to the tragic crash, Michael's family was trying to get him help, and it clearly didn't work, unfortunately. | ||
| Based on the behaviors people can have when they're in a manic episode, particularly if they're also using stimulants, they might make grandiose statements that aren't totally connected to reality. | ||
| If he told someone he was onto the biggest story ever, that... | ||
| Could have been his mania talking, and that's probably why his colleagues didn't take that email that he sent them as anything too serious. | ||
| But for Alex and Biggs, they don't have the context, and so they think that everyone just must be too scared to talk about it. | ||
| Michael's brother was there, and he knew what was going on. | ||
| Michael's widow came on CNN and said, quote, you know, my gut here was that this is just a really tragic accident, and I'm very unlucky, and the world was very unlucky. | ||
| These were the people who were actually close to Michael and cared about him and were respecting his memory in the wake of his death. | ||
| Joe Biggs knew Hastings from his military days and they clearly kept in touch somehow, but he's overplaying that shit in order to cash in on his supposed good friend's death. | ||
| It's pretty gross stuff. | ||
| But it shouldn't be surprising. | ||
| Joe Biggs has been a piece of shit the entire time he's been in the public eye. | ||
| From his introduction to the right-wing media, to his Pizzagate shit, to his Jade Helm coverage, to his leadership in a gang that tried to overturn an election. | ||
|
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So... | |
| Well, yeah, if you told me he was bipolar, I would have gotten the grandiosity real fast. | ||
| Come on, man! | ||
| It is a context that is behind this that is absent from any of the reporting. | ||
| And Joe Biggs doesn't know him that well. | ||
| So he doesn't know all this stuff, or he's ignoring it. | ||
| He obviously doesn't know the kind of episodes he was having in the immediate time right before his death. | ||
| And so he's created a story in his head that is... | ||
| Totally inappropriate. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you can tell from, like, interviews with the family that, I mean, they're gracious as hell. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| Because, like, talking about the conspiracy stuff, his brother was like, you know, I don't really pay attention to it and I don't, like, care. | ||
| He wasn't mad about it. | ||
|
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Sure, sure, sure. | |
| But clearly it doesn't have respect for the stuff. | ||
| Boy, now I'm going back thinking about the emails I've sent on a manic episode, wondering which one I would prefer to die after. | ||
| As far as really fucking the world up. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| And, you know, in manic episodes, particularly exacerbated by substances, you can feel invincible and you might... | ||
| Feel like you can drive your car 120 miles an hour in a residential neighborhood. | ||
| Honestly, I will tell you this. | ||
| Most people who are on a manic episode are taking stimulants to calm themselves down. | ||
| That's weird. | ||
| I mean, it's like people with hyperactivity disorder taking Ritalin, a stimulant. | ||
| It's to keep you from going too far. | ||
| That's what keeps you sane. | ||
| I think we've talked about this before, the weird way that meds can have different effects in different doses and on different people. | ||
|
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Yep. | |
| It's very strange. | ||
| At different times, yeah. | ||
| So, this context, I think, is really super important when you're understanding and looking at the circumstances of this. | ||
| Because, you know, devoid of a lot of context, you do have the ingredients of this conspiracy. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| And ignoring the reality of the situation is kind of a choice. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think. | ||
| No, definitely. | ||
| So anyway, that's what they choose. | ||
| All you need to say is like, oh yeah, a week before he made a surprise $10,000 purchase, and I'd be like, ha ha ha! | ||
| I know this guy. | ||
| I know this man! | ||
| Ha ha! | ||
| So Alex has just decided that it was a bomb and a murder. | ||
| I said, we need to go talk to the police and the fire department, and if they're told not to talk to people, and I said this on air over and over again, and if they try to suppress the police reports, the first reports, I said, ladies and gentlemen, it means national security pressure was put on them. | ||
| This is NDAA type stuff. | ||
| And again, ladies and gentlemen, I happen to know through family connections and things that there have been federal hit teams in this country. | ||
| They don't even have to hire organized crime for a very long time. | ||
| I'm going to leave it at that. | ||
| Yeah, so I guess it's federal hit teams. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, you know. | ||
| I don't know if they were, like, The police report as much as, like, maybe you didn't ask? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or maybe the wrong person asked the wrong department or something? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I mean, it's available. | ||
| I've found it. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| But I can't speak for in 2013. | ||
| You know, like, I don't know if it was widely available to everyone then. | ||
| Yeah, that's a good point. | ||
| But I assume that, you know... | ||
| Legitimate journalists could probably get it. | ||
| Maybe not Alex Jones. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, they figured out that the FBI killed Fred Hampton pretty quick. | ||
| It took a while, but it was pretty quick. | ||
| So, in this next clip, Alex just does some misrepresentation work. | ||
| He said, look, the family, I've been to the funeral. | ||
| They're scared, but the wife is saying she wants to bring down whoever did this. | ||
| You'd think that'd be national news. | ||
| No news coverage of him saying that on this show two weeks later. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| So, this thing about wanting to take down whoever did this to Michael, that's not something we can really attribute to his wife, Elise Jordan. | ||
| Right. | ||
| This is something that Alex will cite as... | ||
| Her words. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But the only source on this is Joe Biggs saying that she said it to him. | ||
| Great. | ||
| And his credibility isn't good. | ||
| Zero. | ||
| It's zero. | ||
| When you consider her CNN interview and blanket dismissal of conspiracy theories around the death, it really doesn't seem like Biggs is accurately conveying what she said, which is disrespectful. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| This whole thing is very disrespectful. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Allowing Alex to do this. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| If you are his good friend, allowing Alex to play these games is shit. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| And all they're going to do, because here's what you have to say eventually, it's they got to her. | ||
| You know, that's why she's telling all these things. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| The moment you say that, you have removed her as a human being from the world. | ||
| I found a Paul Joseph Watson article about her CNN appearance, and he's like, mysteriously, she's changed her tune. | ||
| And it's like... | ||
| There's no win. | ||
| There's no way. | ||
| No. | ||
| Your host. | ||
| So Biggs has some details that he's bringing to the table. | ||
| But we commend you, Staff Sergeant Biggs, for being a good friend, a good American, and investigating. | ||
| And I think a lot of credence has been added to your questioning now. | ||
| What do you think of everything that's transpired since we talked a week and a half ago, sir? | ||
| Yeah, there's a lot of crazy things been popping up. | ||
| I found out recently that the LAPD actually made a stop by Michael's house just a couple days prior. | ||
| And they were spotted there. | ||
| He was also spotted looking under his car a few days prior. | ||
| So that in itself is pretty fishy, along with the fact that I called LAPD and they told me there's nothing they can do. | ||
| They wouldn't tell me anything. | ||
| Who are you? | ||
| They all kind of just acted a bit, you know, uneased. | ||
| Well, I'd say so. | ||
| By helping cover up, they begin to enter the galaxy of... | ||
| Being accomplices. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Walk through this. | ||
| This is really newsworthy for everyone in the state of this country. | ||
| So Joe is saying that the LAPD stopped by this appearance, but weirdly, by August, this would turn into the feds visiting him. | ||
| Ah, there we go. | ||
| All of this is based on just things that Joe Biggs is saying. | ||
| There's no corroborating evidence on this at all, and it's so weird how the details changed as he talked to Alex Moore. | ||
| Same thing for the looking under the car. | ||
| There's no evidence that Joe's providing of this, and all reporting on this traces back solely to him, although I think he does obliquely cite a news crew in L.A. or something. | ||
| But I don't know, that's not verifiable. | ||
| But, I mean, honestly, that one could be true. | ||
| Michael was having a manic episode news on stimulants, so I wouldn't be surprised if he had a seriously heightened state of paranoia. | ||
| It's possible that he could have been seen looking under his car, but I don't think that means anything. | ||
| Honestly, he could have had one of those magnetic things because he left his keys in the house. | ||
| Could be. | ||
| I've done that a million times. | ||
| That's how it works, yeah. | ||
| There's any number of variables that could explain that being true, if it's even true. | ||
| Also, maybe the LAPD couldn't disclose information to a random dude calling, which now Joe is letting Alex report to the audience as proof that they're in on the cover-up. | ||
| It's not super cool. | ||
| Not great stuff. | ||
| I appreciate that Alex described him with the two things that I think he would be described as the least in real life, which is good friend and good American. | ||
| Great American. | ||
| I think he's proved himself to be a terrible friend, and he tried to overthrow America. | ||
| But he was doing it for America. | ||
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Sure. | |
| Because he was such a great friend to America. | ||
| No, no, that makes sense. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| Now that you said it like that. | ||
| So now this clip sucks. | ||
| I talked to you via text a few days ago. | ||
| You said you were going to be talking to the police and calling the fire department. | ||
| Walk through who you called, what happened, what unfolded. | ||
| Well, I called the coroner, too, to ask about where the body was. | ||
| And they said that they had released it a while back, but when I had spoken to the family, they hadn't received it yet. | ||
| So that was pretty odd. | ||
| And then when I called the LAPD and asked for a report... | ||
| I said, what steps do I need to go through to file to get a copy of the police report on Michael Hastings' death? | ||
| And then all of a sudden, they're like, well, we need to transfer you. | ||
| And then someone told me, well, we can't help you with this. | ||
| And it just kind of got pushed around. | ||
| I went from one person's call to another. | ||
| Oh, that's not newsworthy that the body's missing. | ||
| Obviously, they're going to have to because you've been in combat. | ||
| We jumped to missing fast. | ||
| Couldn't you test it? | ||
| And pick up the residue of an explosive? | ||
| Well, what happened was they ended up apparently cremating the body. | ||
| Oh, whoa, you hadn't dropped the... | ||
| Oh, they decided to do that? | ||
| Yeah, I'm not sure. | ||
| I haven't heard back from his wife yet if that's what they wanted, but I'm pretty sure that's something that he wouldn't have wanted. | ||
| I'm pretty sure anybody would want their family to have an actual... | ||
| Funeral. | ||
| I don't. | ||
| Legitimately nothing real was said in that clip. | ||
| Joe has no idea if the family wanted a cremation or if, in fact, Michael himself did. | ||
| He's just guessing. | ||
| Further, he's allowing Alex to create these absurd conspiracy talking points off the things he's saying, and that's unacceptable. | ||
| I mean, like, and these were things that became conspiracy theory talking points. | ||
| Joe says that the coroner said they released the body, but the family hadn't received it. | ||
| But the time frame of these conversations isn't clear. | ||
| But Alex jumps in and puts two and two together that this means that they had to get rid of the body because if they didn't, it would test positive for explosive remnants. | ||
| This is how Alex operates, and it's not as a sincere interviewer. | ||
| He has a conclusion in mind that he's already decided to push as his narrative. | ||
| In this case, it's that Michael Hastings was killed by a car bomb as retribution for his reporting or to stop him from reporting on the thing he was working on at the time. | ||
| Everything that Joe says, or any guest says really, will be filtered through that narrative, and Alex will be constantly working to try and make whatever is said fit the narrative. | ||
| Alex hears Joe say nonsense about the body. | ||
| And Alex decides to jump to the conclusion that the body is missing. | ||
| So now the question is, why is the body missing? | ||
| Within the narrative, what's the reason someone would lose the body? | ||
| It's obviously to cover up for the explosives. | ||
| That's the story Alex is writing as a way to make every piece of information conform to his narrative, but none of it's real. | ||
| It's all completely imagined in his head. | ||
| I mean, and I... | ||
| And Joe's letting him do it. | ||
| Yeah, I'm not going to claim some sort of expertise, but if I have understood all of the car bombings that I've ever studied in the past, like the ones in, what was it, like Ohio? | ||
| The fucking Troubles? | ||
| You use a car bomb... | ||
| To publicly assassinate somebody and send a message that you have assassinated that person. | ||
| You do not car bomb somebody and then cover it up. | ||
| They think this is sending a message to the media. | ||
| But that doesn't make any sense. | ||
| If you want to kill somebody in a car and make it look like an accident, the car is a bomb. | ||
| True. | ||
| I mean, I agree with what you're saying, but I also know that Alex thinks that it is a message still, even though there's a cover-up. | ||
| That's just not how you do it. | ||
| It's a little weird. | ||
| That's just weird. | ||
| Also, as it turns out, the family did request the cremation. | ||
| Yeah, that makes sense. | ||
| There was a huge conspiracy blitz around the idea that they hadn't, which was reported by a local news person in San Diego named Kim Dvorak, based on something she heard from a... | ||
| Quote, close family friend, who I would bet anything is Joe Biggs. | ||
| God damn it. | ||
| The family wanted cremation after all the autopsy and toxicology results were done, which happened. | ||
| Everything Joe and Alex are saying is disconnected from reality and just a real shame. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
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It's, uh, and this is the, this is like the point I want to make. | |
| Yeah. | ||
|
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There's two things that are happening here. | |
| One is that Joe is allowing Alex to distort and twist everything he's saying in service of a bizarre and unhinged conspiracy that he should know better than to do that. | ||
| This is not a sincere, uh, actor at work. | ||
| And then Alex... | ||
| You can see the way that he's working. | ||
| You know, you can see the way that he's taking these little pieces and then recontextualizing them, reframing them. | ||
| Ooh, the body's missing! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And trying to get it into ways that he can work with it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You see those two trains running sort of parallel. | ||
| Yeah, no, it's a little bit like the price to entry for Biggs is to play a game of improv with Alex. | ||
| Dude! | ||
|
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That's exactly how I put it. | |
| I conceived of it as the price of entry is allowing Alex to exploit his life. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that is. | ||
| That's what it is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's almost like so many people got into this through a contest. | ||
| Joe is getting an audition. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| By being the person that Alex is distorting to create these Hastings conspiracies. | ||
| No, it's like you're good to play ball. | ||
| That's what it is. | ||
| It's bananas. | ||
| Yeah, and through this, Joe kept coming on to talk about Michael Hastings shit, and then eventually he's hired as a reporter. | ||
| Branches out into his own thing. | ||
| Starts doing some stuff like with Ferguson, starts doing stuff with Jade Helm, Pizzagate. | ||
| He's ingratiated. | ||
| Yeah, then he gets fired. | ||
| It's just pathetic. | ||
| When he's been disgraced. | ||
| How many thousands of years are we going to do the same shit? | ||
| So, Michael's brother flew in and was there with him and experienced these, you know, the difficulties he was having in the last days. | ||
| And Alex asks, when's the last time Joe talked to him? | ||
| Man, I tell you, when was the last time you physically talked to him, I mean, over the phone or in person rather than email? | ||
| Michael? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Probably three months ago. | ||
|
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What? | |
| I mean, you knew him so well, and he was embedded with you for a long time, and he's one of the guys, you know, he sent this email to. | ||
| What do you think he would be seeing now if this would have happened to another investigative journalist like himself? | ||
| I don't think that's the answer Alex wanted. | ||
| I think that that kind of creates a perception of like, oh, you guys knew each other, but maybe they weren't as close as, you know, not talking for three months. | ||
| No, your sweet spot is a week. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| A week before is believable enough that people aren't like, oh, are you really going to claim that you talked to him an hour before the car accident? | ||
| Even two weeks. | ||
| Two weeks, yeah. | ||
| But that's what I'm saying. | ||
| Three months is too long. | ||
| That's way too long. | ||
| Way too long. | ||
| For the story that is being sold here. | ||
| For the narrative, it's too long. | ||
| For him to have any purchase as somebody with inside information around this, that is way too disconnected. | ||
| You're an acquaintance. | ||
| You're a friendly acquaintance. | ||
| And I'll believe that based on your time in Afghanistan, I believe. | ||
| Wherever they were in 2008 in the combat. | ||
| I would even accept the traditional comedians the other day. | ||
| You know, the old, the old, oh, this happened to me the other day. | ||
| Was that three or four years ago? | ||
| Could have been last year. | ||
| Could have been the other day. | ||
| That would be bad. | ||
| Yeah, I wouldn't do that one. | ||
| So they start spitballing ideas that they are not going to ever do. | ||
| Well, what's going to happen if a lot of people start dying like this? | ||
| I think there'll be some pushback. | ||
| Well, I mean, if my car blows up, then I guess we all know they better start looking around. | ||
| Well, you know, buddy, we need to actually think about that. | ||
| I think if we went out to Los Angeles, maybe we should go out to Los Angeles together. | ||
| I don't think you're afraid. | ||
| I'm not afraid. | ||
| I'm actually afraid of giving in to this fear. | ||
| And if the family invited me, I will go and investigate. | ||
| I'll jump in anyone's face. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| I want to find out what's going on, too. | ||
| I'll go to L.A. You will, buddy. | ||
| Well, I think we... | ||
| I mean, you're his friend, so you've got some jurisdiction to do it. | ||
| I... | ||
| I've got his wife's contact info or email and the Twitter. | ||
| I know you've got her number and stuff, but I get people having kids. | ||
| This is getting scary, wanting to give it some space. | ||
| She says she wants to bring down who did it, but I'm not expecting a woman to charge around, but I've told she has a lot of courage. | ||
| Damn, throwing some misogyny in the end there. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Alex, do not wait for that invitation from the family to come, because I don't think, based on everything that I've seen, I do not think they would be interested in you coming down to investigate. | ||
| No, no, no, no, no, no. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
|
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Oof, oof, oof. | |
| Man, people, people, boy, the one thing that I don't want is for Infowars and Alex to just have my contact info. | ||
| I bet they do. | ||
| Oh, that's a good point. | ||
| I bet they do. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, given the... | ||
| I'm just basing this on the... | ||
| I mean, they can go to my website. | ||
| But I'm also basing this on the million-page background report they had on Lenny Posner. | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| I imagine maybe they've done a background check on you and I. If they want it, they've got it. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| So, there's another question for Joe, and I think this is dumb. | ||
| I want to give you the floor instead of me... | ||
| Asking questions about other points you'd like to make or what you'd like to say to people out there. | ||
| A, the cowards that are going along with this. | ||
| Cowards. | ||
| Maybe those that were part of this because I don't know how they think they're going to have a future in a country this corrupt. | ||
| Well, I know whoever did this, you know, you got me to look forward to seeing. | ||
| I'm going to definitely find out what's going on because I'm going to pull back those Band-Aids. | ||
|
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I'm going to dig into that scab and I'm going to find out that dirt. | |
| And I'm going to come after them. | ||
| Bring that into the media as fast as I can. | ||
| Whatever I can find out, I will. | ||
| I think it's safe to say that Joe definitely didn't keep pushing for the truth on this until he uncovered it all. | ||
| He allowed Alex to sensationalize his tenuous connection to a real story in a way that was disrespectful to the family of the deceased. | ||
| And for that, he got to become an Infowars employee, where he went on to do a ton of terrible work before he was fired. | ||
| And ended up having to try to do his own YouTube channel and do some stuff with the right side broadcasting. | ||
| All while helming a violent street gang started by Gavin McGinnis, where everyone has to name cereals and not masturbate. | ||
| It's an understatement. | ||
| To say that Joe lost his own plot. | ||
| But that's because it was never his real plot. | ||
| He wasn't a man on the hunt for the truth. | ||
| He was looking for a way in and Alex gave it to him. | ||
| So, you know. | ||
| Yeah, he just took a job interview. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, is it that much different from being like... | ||
| I mean, he goes in. | ||
| He has this... | ||
| To bring to Alex. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then they do a little back and forth. | ||
| And he's like, okay, well, you're good. | ||
| And the interesting thing that I think about is he was all over the place doing all of these interviews. | ||
| And I don't think he was looking for a job at RT or with Megyn Kelly or anything. | ||
| I don't know if that was his initial intention. | ||
| But some sort of a branding and being in the public eye definitely seems to be. | ||
| Yeah, I think what most likely happened there is he wound up taking a job at InfoWars after the attention dried up. | ||
| Right. | ||
| To the point where the only way to get that boost again is to go to someone. | ||
| And you know, it's so interesting that in Joe's later career, or whatever, it's not really even talked about that much. | ||
| He rose to prominence on InfoWars as the guy who was good friends with Michael Hastings. | ||
| That's weird. | ||
| I mean, everything I read about it, I think a lot of people specifically keep InfoWars out of a lot of people's credits in order to give them the air of a big bad. | ||
| Like, Roger Stone, in every article in 2018, none of them were like, Roger Stone... | ||
| Contributor to the war room on InfoWars. | ||
| Co-host with Owen Troyer. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| None of them portrayed him as the giant loser that he was. | ||
| They all try to build him up as the world-traveling rat fucker. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And Biggs is the same way. | ||
| He's the big leader of the Proud Boys. | ||
| He's the guy who will get into a fight with you. | ||
| It doesn't take away from that reality to understand that he is also an InfoWars shithead. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But... | ||
| But in the papers, that's kind of what they do. | ||
| That's what I've seen. | ||
| That's what I've seen at least. | ||
| Maybe it just overcomplicates things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| In terms of the events of January 6th in particular, is his employment in the past at InfoWars that relevant? | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| Maybe not. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| I mean, it seems relevant that he used to work at the same place that the other seditious conspiracy guy used to show off on frequently. | ||
| That seems like the two of them have one massive connection. | ||
| Yeah, and Stuart Rhodes' group was the Oath Keepers about former police and military folks, and Joe Biggs is a retired staff sergeant, so he was almost certainly connected with the Oath Keepers. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| Maybe we should look at the, I don't know. | ||
| Oh, and Alex was bullhorning on January 6th and leading a huge group of people. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, ultimately that's going to be the problem with all the prosecution for January 6th and all that stuff is that the people who have the ability to make one happen again are the only ones not receiving consequences for it. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So Alex gives his version of what happened. | ||
| With Hastings. | ||
| And Joe just goes along with it. | ||
| He had found out how bad they really are. | ||
| He'd had that moment of conscience that he was going to go all the way, and they blow him up. | ||
| And the issue is that if they kill you, if they kill me, it becomes more and more obvious. | ||
| This has happened a lot in history. | ||
| All that matters is they're going to get taken down. | ||
| If we all cower, then they're going to win and start killing whoever they want. | ||
|
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Yeah, well, I'm not going to cower, I'll tell you that. | |
| I'll stand right in their face and tell them how it is. | ||
| Well, they're cowards. | ||
| They'll put another car bomb on you. | ||
| They probably aren't going to do that. | ||
| I mean, he had something big for them to do that, and it was a message to the media, you know, because the media's not stupid. | ||
| They know they killed him. | ||
| Yeah, see? | ||
| It's a message. | ||
| So, yeah, Joe just allows Alex to basically hijack and take over this entire thing as a conspiracy, and he seems like an incredibly willing participant in it. | ||
| Yeah, we've got a message being sent to the media. | ||
| The body is missing. | ||
| Everything is a cover-up. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| Yeah, and whether or not it was Joe's intention to convey those messages, he is the person who is... | ||
| Creating the air of legitimacy to anything that Alex makes up because he's got a friend. | ||
| That too, and the raw materials from which Alex is creating these bullshit talking points, and he is willingly going along with it. | ||
| Sir, I brought you 10,000 pounds of clay. | ||
| Will you make a lie with me? | ||
| Yeah, it's a mess. | ||
| So Joe would go on to get a job at InfoWars, and he would fit in real nice over there. | ||
| Not only was he completely unbothered by lying, But he also had one of the other defining characteristics of people that work at that company. | ||
| Being a real asshole. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| A steadfast inability to criticize creative media. | ||
| That's fair. | ||
| So I found a film review that Joe Biggs did while he was in it for words. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| So he has some thoughts about the movie Logan. | ||
| God damn it! | ||
| That's my favorite X-File! | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| Brand new movie out called Logan, starring Hugh Jackman. | ||
| It's the last movie about Wolverine. | ||
| And in this movie, the bad guy's name is Donald. | ||
| And it's about a bunch of little illegal kids. | ||
|
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And they're illegal because in the year 2026, it's illegal to be a mutant. | |
| And these little illegal kids just escape this horrible military compound in Juarez, Mexico. | ||
| And they finally get away from the bad guys who run that medical facility and that military facility. | ||
| And they get to America. | ||
| And Donald's there. | ||
| And he's running around trying to chase them and kill them and snatch them up and do tests to them with this huge militarized police force. | ||
|
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And they just want to get to Canada because that's where Trudeau is and it's the safest place to be. | |
| Oh my god, the propaganda, the subliminal messaging in the media. | ||
| In the movies right now is Through the Roof. | ||
| The villain in that movie was Donald Pierce, who's been a Marvel character since 1980. | ||
| He was inspired by Donald Sutherland, apparently. | ||
| Of all the criticisms to have towards this movie, if I understand it correctly, his is somehow an anti-immigration criticism. | ||
| And a criticism that they're making the villain Donald Trump. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure. | ||
| I understand that. | ||
| We're just not going to deal with them. | ||
| I can't handle just, oh, that name is the same. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| I can't handle that anymore. | ||
|
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Fair enough. | |
| Yes, it is an immigration thing. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| So it's an immigration thing. | ||
| But again, his problem appears to be that they are not staying in Mexico. | ||
| In the place where they're being tortured and experimented. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| But shouldn't your problem with the movie be that they don't want to go to the United States? | ||
| Because they want to not go to the United States. | ||
| They want to go to Eden. | ||
| They want to go as far away from you people as possible because you're the ones who own the torture-murder machine. | ||
| Yeah, the elegant solution would be... | ||
| Give them an assist! | ||
| Yeah, why aren't people coming to their aid and stopping Donald from hurting them while they make passage through the United States to where they're safe? | ||
| An escort! | ||
| You don't want them in your country? | ||
| That's your deal. | ||
| I don't know what to deal with you. | ||
| They also don't want to be in the country. | ||
| They don't want to be there! | ||
| In the movie. | ||
| So just help them go! | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| You're like, no, no, no, no, no. | ||
| Just because they don't want to be in our country doesn't mean we don't want them to be tortured in some other country? | ||
| But it is a little bit strange, too, because, like, I mean, the fundamental tension in every X-Man... | ||
| The idea of it being illegal to be a mutant. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, the prospect of that happening. | ||
| Right. | ||
| People stigmatizing mutants. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The idea that Joe Biggs is like, this is something, like, it's unique to this movie. | ||
| No, it's the tension of every movie. | ||
| That's the whole thing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The whole thing. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| Yeah, he didn't get it. | ||
| I mean, it is, it makes sense, though. | ||
| It makes sense that he physically, like, on a physical, I imagine on an electron level, cannot understand. | ||
| The mutants are immigrants from Mexico. | ||
| Donald Pierce is Donald Trump. | ||
| Logan is Bernie Sanders. | ||
| I guess. | ||
| And Canada is Trudeau. | ||
| And the clone of Logan is Howard Dean. | ||
| Because he doesn't scream. | ||
| So, Joe starts complaining about the immigration situation. | ||
| Because of Logan. | ||
| The whole thing turns into a screed about immigrants. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| Pick any movie other than Logan. | ||
| That just doesn't make any sense. | ||
|
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But anyway. | |
| He ends up saying something that is a little ironic in hindsight. | ||
| Now, if you come here illegally, you are a criminal. | ||
| It doesn't matter if you've committed felonies or murder or anything like that. | ||
| That's already a criminal offense. | ||
| You're now a criminal. | ||
| So when people say, well, we're only going to get rid of the people with criminal backgrounds that are here illegally. | ||
| No. | ||
| If you're here illegally, you are a criminal. | ||
| If I go somewhere illegally, I am a criminal. | ||
| So they don't get any free pass. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| Ooh. | ||
| Like the Capitol? | ||
|
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Boy, that sure is ironic. | |
| Boy, I gotta go back and listen to everything I've ever said and try and scrub shit from the internet that might come back to bite me later on. | ||
| That podcast might be able to use to mock you. | ||
| What a fucking face plant. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, boy. | ||
| Doing a review of Logan and ends up pointing a finger at himself in the future. | ||
| You know, I just don't even know. | ||
| The amount of times we jump back and forth through different eras and see these people have bare-knuckled, knock-down, drag-out fights with themselves from ten years ago. | ||
| It's mind-boggling. | ||
| Well, I mean, I think it's telling because their principles don't really exist. | ||
| There is just sort of a defensiveness, a oppositional defiance, and basically just anger. | ||
| That's kind of all that's going on. | ||
| Yeah, all that I would do if you went back at it is I'd be like, hey, Jordan, learn all these lessons faster, idiot. | ||
| That's what I would do. | ||
| I would hope that playing stuff from the past of mine would just be like... | ||
| Yeah, I learned that lesson. | ||
|
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I don't do that anymore. | |
| And let me explain to you how I've grown since then. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
|
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Or whatever. | |
| People caught that. | ||
| They called me out on it. | ||
| I learned from it. | ||
| And now I don't do that anymore. | ||
| That's called the learning process. | ||
| Poor Joe. | ||
| Anyway, we come to the end of this, and this is the longest I've ever spent thinking about Joe Biggs. | ||
| Yeah, me too, by a wide margin. | ||
| And actually, I had kind of intended for this to be more all-encompassing. | ||
| I ended up talking a little bit about the Jade Helm stuff and the Pizzagate stuff in more detail, but I realize I think we talked about the Pizzagate already. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Jade Helm might not actually be as interesting. | ||
| And this kind of felt like it had a... | ||
| No, I like this. | ||
| I think you nailed it. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| As long as it ends with the critique of Logan, everything that comes before is great. | ||
| He has a couple other movie reviews that we might touch on in the future. | ||
| But for now, this is where we're at. | ||
| What is it like to watch a movie in their brains? | ||
| What movie are you watching? | ||
| I think, if I recall correctly, I think that they have a decent review of Winter Soldier. | ||
| Captain America Winter Soldier. | ||
| Well, it is the most conspiracy-laden of the Marvel films. | ||
| I think... | ||
| I don't want to say this and be held to it. | ||
| Yeah, this is going to be five years from now, people playing this clip. | ||
| I feel like their review of it made more sense. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| Because, you know what? | ||
| I think Jakari Jackson's a comics guy. | ||
| He's a comics guy. | ||
| Regardless of what they all have going on, he's like, yeah, but listen, I like the Silver Age, okay? | ||
| Calm it down. | ||
| At the end of the video, he's like, you know, the people who are in the cage, that's actually Magneto's children. | ||
| Okay, there we go. | ||
|
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Yeah! | |
| Yeah! | ||
| All right, Jakari! | ||
| Yeah, buddy! | ||
| So I think he might be able to understand some of the comic tropes and stuff like that that maybe fly past Alex and Joe Biggs. | ||
| And everyone else is like, you know what? | ||
| Why are the bad guys the one who torture children? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Makes you think. | ||
| Makes you think. | ||
| So anyway, good luck, Joe Biggs. | ||
| Good luck. | ||
| We'll be back. | ||
| Indeed we will. | ||
| Until then, we have a website. | ||
| Yes, we do. | ||
| It's knowledgefight.com. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| We're also on Twitter. | ||
| We are on Twitter. | ||
| It's at knowledge underscore fight. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| We'll be back. | ||
| But until then, I'm Neo. | ||
| I'm Leo. | ||
| I'm DZX Clark. | ||
| Oh, you know what? | ||
| And now here comes the sex robots. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
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Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your work. |