Today, Dan and Jordan take a little Wacky Friday adventure, as Jordan explores a new space weirdo possibility. In this installment, the gents learn about funk tubas, visitations at baseball games, and a mysterious story about a trip into the "other side" in a Jeep.
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys. | |
| Knowledge fight. | ||
| Dan and Jordan, knowledge fight. | ||
| I need, I need money. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Andy in Kansas. | |
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Stop it. | |
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| It's time to pray. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your room. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Knowledge Fight. | |
| KnowledgeFight.com. | ||
| Hey, everybody! | ||
| Welcome back to Fight Knowledge. | ||
| I'm Jordan. | ||
| I'm Dan. | ||
| This is a podcast where we worship at the altar of Selene and do anything but talk about Alex Jones. | ||
| That's correct. | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| Damn. | ||
| I had a question for you. | ||
| What's that, my friend? | ||
| What's your bright spot? | ||
| My bright spot today, as you know, I'm going back through all the albums that I may have missed from 2022. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I love me a year-end list. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh-huh. | |
| You know, I'm not in the world. | ||
| Did you look at Obama's year-end list? | ||
| No. | ||
| Get some inspiration from his annual list of bangers? | ||
| No, I did not. | ||
| No, I did not. | ||
| All right. | ||
| But Black Thought and Danger Mouse put out an album. | ||
| Did they now? | ||
| That is very, very good. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And not least of which, you know, Black Thought. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| It's produced in such a way that it has that old kind of grittier feel, you know, that like those early mixtape days, you know, back in the late 80s. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| Some of those early roots songs, like things off Phrenology. | ||
| That's C2.0. | ||
| Yeah, back where it all started. | ||
| Back where it began. | ||
| No, I think that would be Illidelph Half-Life. | ||
| I'm talking Sable Man. | ||
| Yeah, there's a bit more. | ||
| Back when Malik B was in the... | ||
| Yeah, well, hey, R.I.P. | ||
| Leonard Hubs. | ||
| How about you? | ||
| It's your bright spot. | ||
| Well, I'm sorry. | ||
| I completely derailed you. | ||
| Did you have some albums that you were... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, that's just the one that I was specifically... | |
| That's my bright spot this time. | ||
| Or are you going to be, for like the month of January, all of your missed albums? | ||
| No, I haven't missed many that I wanted to listen to. | ||
| You know, that kind of thing. | ||
| And then I've listened to a lot that I... | ||
| Not for me! | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Not for me! | ||
| I'm an old man now. | ||
| I'm grumpy. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Where's the pop music that reflects grumpiness? | ||
| See, but this is interesting. | ||
| I am the king of the grumps. | ||
| True, true. | ||
| And I kind of like bright poppy stuff. | ||
| Absolutely, yes. | ||
| But maybe something with a little bit of darkness. | ||
| So I'll go ahead and throw this out for my bright spot. | ||
| Since you're going with music, I'll join you with that. | ||
| Excellent. | ||
| The group Sally Shapiro has a new album out. | ||
| Never heard of them. | ||
| Italo Disco. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Outfit. | |
| Okay, now I'm listening. | ||
| They're a duo of a singer and a DJ guy. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And there's a lot of kind of melancholy, disco-y stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| They made two albums together, and then they quit. | ||
| They retired, and then, I didn't realize this, but they just recently put out a new album called Sad City. | ||
| Is it a little bit, is it like Lady Tron-ish? | ||
| Does it have that kind of vibe to it? | ||
| I don't know enough about Lady Tron. | ||
| I can't really... | ||
| That's something that you've recommended to me a number of times in the past. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know how to... | ||
| Which means that eventually, in the next couple of years, we will be right back where we are now with me saying, wait, does that sound a little bit like Lady Tron about a different band? | ||
| Probably. | ||
| You'll be like, you've told me to listen to it before. | ||
| One of these days I'll get around to it. | ||
| I'm not good at taking recommendations. | ||
| No. | ||
| But yeah, I... | ||
| We've enjoyed that Sad City album. | ||
| I will definitely be listening to that. | ||
| I love an Italo disco. | ||
| You don't know anything about Italo disco. | ||
| I don't know anything about Italo disco. | ||
| What do you know about Bossa Nova? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I know a little bit too much about Bossa Nova. | |
| Tall and thin and young and lowly. | ||
| God, that annoys me. | ||
| And when she passes. | ||
| Oh, no, we're done. | ||
| We can't do it anymore? | ||
| So frustrating. | ||
| All right, Dan, we have an episode today. | ||
| Do we? | ||
| Yes, we do. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I have brought to you, Dan, I'm going to say this to you. | ||
| Recently, things have been very racist. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Pretty much all the time. | ||
| That is true. | ||
| You know, like pretty much a nonstop drumbeat of somebody being racist on the daily. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And I'm tired of that. | ||
| It's been going on a lot. | ||
| So I thought, let's try and have fun. | ||
| Without racism. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| That seems anathema to our existence over the course of the time doing the show. | ||
| But look, I think it's an admirable goal. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| And I think I've come close at least... | ||
| On this particular episode, it is a show called Dreamland by this guy named Whitley Stryber. | ||
| Oh, I know him. | ||
| Oh, do you know him? | ||
| Okay, alright. | ||
| Well, I know the name. | ||
| I know he has some alien shit going on. | ||
| Oh, he's totally got some alien shit going on. | ||
| Is that going to get Whitley Stryber's Communion? | ||
| Yes, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| That's the one. | ||
| And I'm sure he's racist somewhere. | ||
| I'm sure he's racist. | ||
| I'm sure he's anti-Semitic somewhere, but not on this. | ||
| This particular episode is my point. | ||
| Okay, well that's good. | ||
| That's a name that goes way back in terms of alien stuff. | ||
| He's one of the names that I remember even from back in my days of like... | ||
| Reading the blogs and message boards of conspiracy stuff. | ||
| Oh yeah, he goes way back. | ||
| Controversial figure in some ways. | ||
| Well, he's interesting. | ||
| I'd never heard of him before. | ||
| And then I looked at... | ||
| What's interesting about him is that he's a fairly successful science fiction and horror author. | ||
| Right? | ||
| In that genre. | ||
| That's cool. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And he is also a guy who writes about Bigfoot, you know, and how, like, we're going to find him someday, you know, like that kind of thing. | ||
| So it's a little bit like if Isaac Asimov was like, I write great science fiction, and instead of the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, it's like the rise and fall of the Far Bluvians and that kind of thing, you know? | ||
| Sure, maybe it's heavily veiled fiction. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Kind of. | |
| You know, like, maybe we're the fools for thinking that we should take what he's saying about Bigfoot. | ||
| Seriously, it might just be more science fiction. | ||
| Here's the thing. | ||
| That's kind of what I'm talking about with his guest today. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| I don't think he's doing that. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But his guest might be. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| His guest might be a brilliant, like, immersive fiction author. | ||
| Someone who should be in improv everywhere. | ||
| It is a little something along those lines, and his name is Joshua Kutchen. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Joshy! | |
| Joshy! | ||
| The clutch! | ||
| I think, before we jump into that, I think that Patton Oswalt had a mention of Whitley Stryper in one of his first albums. | ||
| No shit! | ||
| I think so. | ||
| I think there was a reference. | ||
| Anyway. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wild. | |
| That was where my brain pinged off of. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| You might be... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Which one was that? | ||
| Yeah, never mind. | ||
| Might have even been in the... | ||
| No, not the Robert Evans... | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| Not that bit. | ||
| That was Comedians of Comedy. | ||
| But I think it was around that era. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Or maybe even before. | ||
| Yeah, his first album would have been like three or four years before that. | ||
| Might have been the... | ||
| No, not the famous Bulls bit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Anyway, sorry. | |
| It is not the famous Bulls bit. | ||
| Yeah, so he is interviewing Joshua Cutchin about his new book, The Ecology of Souls. | ||
| And we're going to get into that. | ||
| But before we do, how about we say hello to some wonks? | ||
| That sounds like a great idea. | ||
| First, D of Team Stats, you are now a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a policy wonk. | |
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Next, wonky donkey honky tonk, you are now a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a policy wonk. | |
| Thank you very much. | ||
| The ghost of any Morricone who is tired of hearing Alex use ecstasy of gold from good, the bad, and the ugly coming out of ad breaks. | ||
| You are now a policy walker. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| I missed the timing there. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Mark and Lennon. | ||
| Do you not know how to pronounce Ennio Morricone? | ||
| Is that what... | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Everybody... | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm not going to judge you. | |
| We're not going to do this with your handwriting. | ||
| You're the music guy. | ||
| We're not going to do this with your handwriting. | ||
| Oh, God. | ||
| Mark and Lennon, you are now a policy walker. | ||
| It's Linnea. | ||
| Linnea. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| Learn how to write. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you very much. | |
| Dr. J in the Monday night meeting. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a policy wonk. | |
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Are you sure that's not Drew? | ||
| And the fan of Jordan. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a policy wonk. | |
| Thank you very much. | ||
| That was and the fan of Jordan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, okay. | |
| That's why Dan is in all caps. | ||
| That doesn't make... | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| The fan, fan, Jordan. | ||
| It all rhymes. | ||
| The number of... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Never mind. | ||
| Dan, we also have a technocrat. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So, I'm so sorry. | ||
| I've listened to your entire back catalog twice. | ||
| You are now a technocrat. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Four stars. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant. | |
| Someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Daddy Shark. | |
| Bomp, bomp, bomp, bomp, bomp. | ||
| Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's a loser little titty baby. | |
| I don't want to hate black people. | ||
| I renounce Jesus Christ. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Yes, thank you very much to all of you. | ||
| Dan? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| So, today we're talking about this interview on Dreamland. | ||
| So, you said the ecology of souls. | ||
| The ecology of souls. | ||
| Joshua Kutchen. | ||
| Ecological. | ||
| I mean, I thought you said economy of souls at first, and I thought, like, oh, we're going to get some, like, soul banking. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh-uh. | |
| No, it's more of, I mean... | ||
| First off, I've read the book. | ||
| It is roughly 300,000 words. | ||
| And you know I just had the plan to do this yesterday morning. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And it is almost like an adventure from the 1400s. | ||
| Coming back to the club in Britain being like, Gentlemen, there are people with... | ||
| Faces in their chests out there, you know? | ||
| It's that kind of thing. | ||
| I have got a vivisection of a soul. | ||
| Yes, 100%. | ||
| It is that. | ||
| It is like almost like, and in this region, fairies are known for their particular wing structure. | ||
| There's like flora and fauna descriptions of, okay. | ||
| 100% an anthropology textbook. | ||
| But of souls. | ||
| Of souls and if it were real. | ||
| You know, like if this person is so convinced that what he is saying is just more like documenting the kingdom Freedom phyla of jinn versus genie versus, you know, all of that stuff. | ||
| As it relates to the sort of cataloging and description of souls. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| We all know what the compound noun is of a soul, right? | ||
| I mean, you know, there's like a murder of crows. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| There's a blessed union of souls. | ||
| No, I don't believe. | ||
| Wait. | ||
|
unidentified
|
She likes me for me! | |
| That song, remember? | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| Oh no, is that the name of that song? | ||
| That was the band. | ||
| Oh! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That song was called Hey Leonardo. | ||
| Wait. | ||
| That was the name of the band? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| I thought that was a one-hit wonder by, like, Bush? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| What did I think it was? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Bush? | |
| Not Bush, but you know what I mean. | ||
| One of those 90s. | ||
| Yeah, one of those 90s. | ||
| Some 41 or something like that. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| Very different category. | ||
| Whatever. | ||
| They were pop punk. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Bush was more like just on the end tip of grunge. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| But like a Jars of Clay version of Grunge. | ||
| Jars of Clay was rain, rain on my face. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Grace, or the flood. | ||
| What's the Stacy's mom one? | ||
| That was Fountains of Wayne. | ||
| Fountains of Wayne. | ||
| And that was later. | ||
| In my head, they're all the same thing. | ||
| Blessed Union of Souls had the Hey Leonardo, she likes me for me song. | ||
| And then also, I believe that love is the answer. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I believe love will find a way. | |
| It's terrible. | ||
| That song was awful. | ||
| Yeah, well, you're not selling me on it. | ||
| Hey, Leonardo is pretty good. | ||
| Anyway, that's the compound noun of souls, and if this guy doesn't agree... | ||
| Gotcha, gotcha. | ||
| I don't think he goes into the compound noun. | ||
| But there are a few threads throughout this interview that are happening at the same time and yet entirely unrelated. | ||
| First, before we get into too much, how about an out-of-context drop? | ||
| How about it? | ||
| It felt like a woman to me. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I assume he's talking souls. | ||
| He is a person who, that was pulled from a commercial, which is him under hypnosis explaining how he was having a sexual encounter with an alien or a ghost or something along those lines. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| For me, it's just so funny when he goes... | ||
| I thought it was a woman. | ||
| Yeah, the sting is what's the best. | ||
| Yeah, that was a little bit dramatic. | ||
| That's my favorite. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| So, today we're talking about Joshua Kutchen, Ecology of Souls, and I think Stryber introduces him best. | ||
| Go ahead and play that. | ||
| He's written an amazing new book called Ecology of Souls. | ||
| He's the author of seven... | ||
| Critically acclaimed books, Trojan Feast, The Food and Drink Offerings of Aliens, Fairies, and Sasquatch, which we have talked about, The Brimstone Deceit, An In-Depth Examination of Supernatural Sense, Otherworldly Odors and Monstrous Miasmas. | ||
| Okay! | ||
| Thieves in the Night, History of Supernatural Child Abductions. | ||
| And where the footprints end, High Strangeness and the Bigfoot Phenomenon, all of them very cool, all of them loved by you. | ||
| I mean, we didn't talk about all of them, but the ones we talked about were loved by you. | ||
| You loved them. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I mean, they do sound cool. | ||
| People, one, loved them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| People loved them. | ||
| But they didn't talk about all of them. | ||
| They didn't talk about all of them, but people loved them. | ||
| And I don't know what it is about that one title that he just goes, Miles of Miasmas, okay! | ||
| He was pretty excited. | ||
| I also was pretty excited. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Of all of those books, the only one I want to read is the one about weird smells. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| Otherworldly smells. | ||
| What are you talking about? | ||
| How does that work? | ||
| How does otherworldly smell show up? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| That book I could not find. | ||
| I think olives might be otherworldly as a smell, because I love the smell of them. | ||
| Like, you open a jar of olives, but I hate olives. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| That's otherworldly to me. | ||
| That's bewitching. | ||
| You think there's some sort of Mandela effect for you wherein somebody gave you the smell of olives in another universe? | ||
| Maybe not necessarily a Mandela effect, but there's some witchcraft involved. | ||
| It's otherworldly. | ||
| There's a rift. | ||
| You know? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| That sounds fair. | ||
| Any other smells you might think are otherworldly? | ||
| That's a great question. | ||
| Maybe like fresh cut grass. | ||
| But that's transcendent. | ||
| That's the different. | ||
| That's a different thing. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| What about you? | ||
| You got any smells that come to mind? | ||
| I mean, the first thing that comes to mind, but that's just because I'm a Doctor Who fan, is Petrichor. | ||
| Which is the smell of dirt after rain or something along those lines. | ||
| But it's very, very important to Doctor Who fans. | ||
| That's close to fresh cut grass. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It seems, yeah. | |
| Both are lawn adjacent. | ||
| Pretty much. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Turns out we just want lawns. | ||
| I think that's kind of... | ||
| We've been living in Chicago too long. | ||
| Fuck these apartments. | ||
| We're living in... | ||
| I want the smells of a house. | ||
| There's so much goddamn concrete. | ||
| I think... | ||
| I mean, it's impressive. | ||
| Anybody who's written more than one book of nonsense. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'll tip my hat to that. | ||
| I am going to tell you this. | ||
| This man is an impressive writer. | ||
| In some ways, he is an impressive writer to the point where if he were writing in... | ||
| If we existed in the universe... | ||
| Where what he's writing makes sense. | ||
| He would be like the pop historian. | ||
| He's like Barbara Tuckman of imaginary bullshit. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| Now that I'm thinking about it, I also want to hear about the food offerings of the fairies and wizards and Sasquatches. | ||
| I want to read that too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Honestly, the book I read is fairly interesting. | ||
| I mean, it's got to be like what? | ||
| The food offerings would be stuff like Ambrosia? | ||
| You know, he's a classics guy. | ||
| Everything that he does, and the reason that... | ||
| When you say classics, you don't mean in terms of the academia, like Greek and Roman history? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| He's a legit classics guy. | ||
| And that intersects with fairies and the foods they want to... | ||
| And he's not talking about fairies as just like the Dickensian fairies or whatever it is you want to go on there. | ||
| He's talking more like... | ||
| Everything from human history that might resemble a fairy falls under the classification fairy. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Therefore, you can go from region to region, almost anthropologically saying, in this area, fairies are fed berries on the top. | ||
| Fairy berries. | ||
| Fairy berries! | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Merry berries, fairy berries is one of my favorite British cooking shows. | ||
| So, he's kind of got that, and that's why people love him in this world, is because... | ||
| Everything he writes is exhaustively... | ||
| Ridiculously referenced. | ||
| His bibliography for The Ecology of Souls runs 160 some odd pages. | ||
| Too much. | ||
| Too much. | ||
| And it's all pretend. | ||
| It's all bullshit. | ||
| What he references is anywhere from like a scientific paper from the 1800s to a poem to fucking cave paintings just being like, see? | ||
| Cave paintings. | ||
| Proved it. | ||
| I bet it's also like three of those pages are just ibid. | ||
| Oh no, man. | ||
| I'm telling you. | ||
| It's exhaustive. | ||
| Ugh. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| I'm exhausted. | ||
| So, Stryber starts out the way anybody, any good interviewer would. | ||
| Let's get some background information. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And I think this is the start of one of our threads, which is Stryber's interview style. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Joshua has been at all... | ||
| Where do you actually come from, though? | ||
| Your... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Your... | |
| This curriculum vitae on your website, which is joshuacutchen.com, by the way, doesn't really tell us much about you. | ||
| It tells about what you've done, but tell us more about who you are. | ||
| You're a musician, among other things. | ||
| Well, I suppose that the simplest thing right away is to see that I'm sitting here in Georgia wearing a Wisconsin sweatshirt, and I'm from North Carolina, so that gives you sort of a thumbnail. | ||
| Oh, that makes it simple. | ||
| Now we understand exactly where you're coming from. | ||
| That's fun. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, you just said some nonsense. | ||
| Exactly! | ||
| He's pretty funny about it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So you've lived places. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| But to be fair, like... | ||
| Whitley did say, like, where are you from? | ||
| Totally. | ||
| So that is not as much of a non-sequitur answer, but it doesn't really tell us much about this person other than he's moved. | ||
| I guess what he's trying to say is, like, I'm a little from everywhere in the South, I suppose. | ||
| But, again, that's not really answering the question. | ||
| Wait, is Wisconsin in the... | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| In the South? | ||
| Oh, man, whatever. | ||
| I'm having a day. | ||
| North Dakota? | ||
| North Dakota? | ||
| Or did you say North Carolina? | ||
| No, he said North Carolina. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| Because he's Georgia, Wisconsin, North Carolina. | ||
| That's what it was. | ||
| You know what, though? | ||
| That's debatably the South. | ||
| Wisconsin? | ||
| No, North Carolina. | ||
| South Carolina, for sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| North Carolina, debatable. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wisconsin, definitely not. | ||
| Definitely not. | ||
| So, yeah. | ||
| He is not getting too much information. | ||
| To give you an idea of what Joshua looks like, you know, he's a pretty large dude. | ||
| He's six foot three. | ||
| He's a hefty man. | ||
| Pretty bald with a neck beard. | ||
| Like, no mustache. | ||
| Just all around the neck. | ||
| That's not far off from a look that I might have been pulling at some points in high school. | ||
| Because I did shave my head periodically and I had an Amish beard. | ||
| You know, I had the trying to connect with my Mennonite roots. | ||
| It's not a good look when you're doing it intentionally, but if you're, you know, an older person. | ||
| It's not a problem, but it's not attractive. | ||
| Not for a 15-year-old. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| And so we'll continue on. | ||
| He'll tell us a little bit more. | ||
| Yes, sir. | ||
| So I was raised in North Carolina, about 20 minutes north of Charlotte, and I went to undergraduate at the University of Wisconsin. | ||
| For music performance, I came down to the University of Georgia where I got a master's in music literature and a master's in journalism. | ||
| And, you know, big cities have a certain gravity and they sort of pull you in over time. | ||
| So I'm getting closer and closer to Atlanta. | ||
| I might have to achieve escape velocity at some point, but right now I'm in the Marietta area. | ||
| Okay, well that didn't tell us much either. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I relate to this. | ||
| Whitley's charming me a little bit. | ||
| He's got a certain style. | ||
| As long as, I mean, again, I try not to look into either of these guys too much beyond this episode. | ||
| This is kind of gaslighting, though, because he did ask him where he's from, and he's talking about geographical stuff, which is in response to the question. | ||
| It's just like, I don't know. | ||
| Maybe I'm not charmed. | ||
| Here's what I'm thinking. | ||
| As far as this goes, I think what Whitley is looking for is more of a supernatural answer. | ||
| I think it's more based on just what we've heard so far. | ||
| I don't know anything about this. | ||
| It feels more like the where are you from is like, it should be, it's like, where are you from emotionally? | ||
| Where are you from? | ||
| What's your lineage through this bullshit as opposed to geographical locations you stopped at and how you're afraid you might end up in Atlanta? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's worse fates than ending up in Atlanta. | ||
| I mean, I don't know why Marietta's better than Atlanta. | ||
| It's got a certain charm. | ||
| I'm not saying it doesn't. | ||
| I'm just saying I don't know why it's better. | ||
| I've never been. | ||
| I'm just talking out of my ass. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, it's fair. | ||
| So, what caught my ear is he is a musician who has a master's in music literature. | ||
| So, I wanted to see what was going on. | ||
| My man plays the... | ||
| Funk Tuba! | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, hell yeah. | |
| That was not what I expected. | ||
| Nope, you were not expecting that. | ||
| Go ahead and play... | ||
| Because this is on one of these types of shows, I was assuming, like, he has a master's in theremin or something like that. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| Go ahead and play TBS for me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Tuba Solo. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Was he doing the Duke of Earl there? | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| It kind of had a Duke of Earl. | ||
| It was very much... | ||
| Duke, Duke, Duke of Earl. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah. | |
| It had that kind of progression to it. | ||
| That was... | ||
| I liked that one in particular because, one, the video on YouTube is just a close-up of him and his tuba, like, right on his face, and then the tuba, and then attached to the tuba is a cup holder with a full beer in it. | ||
| Hell yeah. | ||
| Which is like, hell yeah, man. | ||
| And two... | ||
| The whole performance is there. | ||
| Everybody in the band gets their own solo, and that's why I played that audio just a little bit beforehand, because when it comes to his solo, he went into the audio on the video, cut it out, and edited it so he would be... | ||
| And I respect that! | ||
| I like that! | ||
| That's his solo! | ||
| And this might also answer the question of the no mustache. | ||
| Mouthpiece chafing can be difficult on a tuba. | ||
| You know, you're not wrong. | ||
| I had not considered that. | ||
| I mean, I played a French horn, and I remember there being some difficulties with the... | ||
| You know, in the mouth. | ||
| I had not considered that. | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Anyways, this dude's a marching band nerd, if I ever heard one. | ||
| It does seem like it's tough to play the tuba and not be. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And that is why, again, I feel like I'm fairly confident we're not in racist territory here. | ||
| I don't know why, but I feel like... | ||
| You can't be a racist tuba player. | ||
| You just can't be in a band playing the tuba and be a racist at the same time. | ||
| I legitimately have no counterexamples, but I strongly disagree with you. | ||
| I think it wouldn't be too hard to find a racist tuba player. | ||
| Listen, I get it. | ||
| The Klan has tuba players too. | ||
| That's fair. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| I don't think they're tuba players in the soul, though. | ||
| They can't play funk tuba. | ||
| It's tough to play the tuba with a hood. | ||
| Mouthpiece is much more difficult even than a mustache. | ||
| Yeah, that's way worse than a mustache. | ||
| Okay, so anyways, Stryber is going to continue his investigation here, and he's going to keep telling us a little bit more about his background, Joshua, and where he comes from. | ||
| What the heck are you doing writing things about? | ||
| A new mythology of death and the paranormal, for example. | ||
| I read you. | ||
| I didn't hear anything in any of this that tells me why you do what you do. | ||
| And not only that, you're brilliant. | ||
| I mean, these books are phenomenal. | ||
| Whitley's telling on himself here. | ||
| He's clearly never been to Wisconsin. | ||
| Everyone there is into the new ideology of death or whatever the fuck he's talking about. | ||
| Yep, yep. | ||
| That is what the ecology of souls is. | ||
| It's a new mythology of death. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yep. | |
| That's... | ||
| Pretty heady. | ||
| Now, another reason why Stryber might think he is very, very brilliant is because Stryber is referenced a lot in these books. | ||
| Ah, okay, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, he features in the bibliography quite a bit. | ||
| Good way to get a good review. | ||
| That's a good way to get a good review of your book. | ||
| Oh, man, I loved that book, especially the part where I'm in it a bunch. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, so I think you hear why I love Stryber's interview style. | ||
| Just so, just so. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What? | ||
| What the heck are you doing? | ||
| It has the feeling of being rude unless they're friends, and that makes you assume that they're friends when they may not be. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| It's an interesting vibe. | ||
| Maybe his status is just so high in the weirdo community that he can pull whatever shit he wants. | ||
| I mean, it feels like that's what he does. | ||
| He just says whatever he's thinking. | ||
| Also, he's got to be pretty old. | ||
| Oh, he's very old. | ||
| Yeah, because I thought he would be dead. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| He's very, very old. | ||
| I thought maybe he died in the 90s, quite frankly. | ||
| Like an Art Bell type. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| Art Bell didn't die in the 90s, though, did he? | ||
| I can't remember when that was. | ||
| Yeah, me neither. | ||
| But yeah, that's... | ||
| Well, I mean, also, that's why his questions take a little bit longer to get going. | ||
| It takes a little bit while... | ||
| It takes a while for the ball to start rolling down the hill, you know? | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| So, yeah. | ||
| What's going on in this book is it's a little bit like John Hodgman's book. | ||
| Do you remember? | ||
| The mole people. | ||
| Yeah, the facts about the mole people or something like that. | ||
| The hobo signs. | ||
| Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| The list of hobo names. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| It's a little bit like that, but if John Hodgman was telling you confidently, this is a real book I am describing to you. | ||
| So yeah, it keeps going on. | ||
| Go ahead and play the next one. | ||
| Well, that's very kind of you, I guess. | ||
| He's so shy, but he knows it's true. | ||
| Well, that's very kind of you. | ||
| I just kept on wanting to interject that I guess I read too many books by this Streber guy, and that sort of put me off on this path. | ||
| Oh, boy. | ||
| Yeah, I'm a real thorn in the side of the ordinary world. | ||
| I don't belong here. | ||
| And I think you write about people who don't belong here and creatures who don't belong here, too. | ||
| In fact, if I'm not correct... | ||
| Where are we in here? | ||
| Let's just jump in here, okay? | ||
| There's a lot of cool stuff in this book about fairy folks, the ecology of souls, and we're going to talk about this huge idea, a new mythology of death in the paranormal, because that's the subtitle of the book, over the course of the interview. | ||
| But let's talk first about the theories of the others. | ||
| Because, you know, I mean, I've had them around in my life, most of my life, and a lot of my listeners have too. | ||
| A lot of people have. | ||
| Yeah, no. | ||
| I looked it up during that clip. | ||
| He's only 77. Really? | ||
| Yeah, I thought he would be older. | ||
| I thought he'd be in his 90s or something. | ||
| Yeah, I was expecting, if you see him, if you look at him, He looks great for 77. Sure. | ||
| Wait, no, I mean, he looks great for... | ||
| I mean, he looks very bad for 77. I got that wrong. | ||
| He looks very bad for 77. Right. | ||
| He looks good for 90. He looks good for 90. That's what I was trying to say. | ||
| Yeah, it's weird. | ||
| It's a strange thing where you have, like, these people slotted into various places in your brain, and, like, I was... | ||
| I knew that name and I was almost certain he was ancient. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it is like stuff that's old when you're young as you get older seems twice as old as it was. | ||
| You know, like if your dad read it, you know, even he was only 30 years older than you, you feel like it was 100 years. | ||
| At the same time, I mean, Barbara Walters just passed and she was in her 90s. | ||
| She was 90 something? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think what we're describing is that we don't know how old each individual celebrity may or may not be. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| I need to make flashcards. | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| We need to practice on this. | ||
| We've got to memorize all this stuff. | ||
| So the fairy folk are involved. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| He's talking about the fairies. | ||
| I mean, I'll say he starts a chapter like this with this sentence. | ||
| There are also physical fairy doubles. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. | |
| Period, as though that's something that you can just say. | ||
| That's the beginning of a chapter? | ||
| That's the first sentence. | ||
| That's not a great first sentence. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| Too short. | ||
| Using also in the first sentence of a chapter, probably gauche. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| What is a physical... | ||
| Is it like... | ||
| Okay, so I'm guessing that fairies are not physical beings. | ||
| They're kind of ethereal, ghost-like creatures or something. | ||
| And then there are also doubles. | ||
| They can take physical form? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or do only some take physical form? | ||
| I'm gonna cut you off here. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Too many questions popping up. | ||
| No, no, no, no. | ||
| There are also fairy doubles. | ||
| The also refers to there are human doubles. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| There are space doubles. | ||
| There's just doubles of everything. | ||
| Well, how else are you gonna play tennis? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So there's two things that exist side by side, is what he tries to get through with his main thesis. | ||
| Does that... | ||
| I mean, does that just mean twins? | ||
| A little bit, yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| But like, you know, it's a little bit like parallel universe kind of stuff. | ||
| You know, you got another one of you! | ||
| In another universe that we can never access and may not be... | ||
| No, he's right here. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But you can't see him. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ah! | |
| But if you're in that universe that he lives in, then you could. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Where are you from? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I'm wearing a t-shirt from Wisconsin. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So what Cutchin is doing is trying to create a grand field theory of pretend. | ||
| He's trying to, and what he does is he takes from everything. | ||
| And I mean everything he can. | ||
| He pulls from, you know, Greek mythology. | ||
| He pulls from the Christianity, Abrahamic religion kind of thing. | ||
| He pulls from Eastern philosophies. | ||
| And he's trying to put all of this stuff together into one thing. | ||
| Right? | ||
| That's not gonna work. | ||
| It's tough to do. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| I just know that this has been tried before. | ||
| It doesn't work. | ||
| You just anger people. | ||
| He's doing his best. | ||
| Yeah, go ahead and keep going. | ||
| It's incredible. | ||
| What a masterpiece, frankly. | ||
| I mean, it's really something. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| It sort of evolved into a snapshot of how I think about these things and how I sort of make them all fit together because I am in a lot of ways what might be termed a Pan-paranormalist or something like that. | ||
| I want to see how the fairy stuff fits in with the cryptid stuff, and I want to see how NDEs fit into the UFO experience. | ||
| A lot of these observations have been made. | ||
| You've got Eddie Bullard, who drew a lot of similarities between shamanic initiations and the UFO contact experience. | ||
| You've got Kenneth Ring, obviously, whom you worked with quite a bit, drawing the connections between near-death experiences and the UFO contact experience. | ||
| It just seems like every contact modality has the vestiges of the same shared attributes, regardless of where it is. | ||
| I mean, it makes a good point. | ||
| I mean, in as much as, like, if we're all going to do all this pretend stuff, or we're going to have all these ideas, they do have to exist in the same universe. | ||
| You know, like, so what is it? | ||
| Is there something that supervenes upon ghosts and fairies and Squatch and all this? | ||
| Is there some kind of a, like, unknown universe law or something that explains this kind of stuff? | ||
| I mean, there would have to be. | ||
| Right! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Right. | ||
| What's crazy about him? | ||
| It's big picture thinking. | ||
| What's crazy about, no, and I read his book, what's crazy about him is that he's kind of got a good thought process insofar as where he's trying to take this. | ||
| So his philosophy is this, something along the lines of, if any of these religions are true, right, then there's a chance that any of them are true. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So either they're all true, We're all possibly true, or none of them are. | ||
| Because if a religion is possible, if magic is possible, then all bets are off, all magic is possible. | ||
| You see, that's his thought process. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It seems like if there is one magician, there is potentially tons. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| But, at the same time, if there's one magician, it's possible there's only one magician. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| But, he's saying, no it's not. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| That's his argument. | ||
| Well, I mean, it is an interesting line of thought. | ||
| I don't foresee him coming to any good conclusions, necessarily, but... | ||
| I think it's an interesting thought. | ||
| Well, the conclusion that he comes to is, you know, after he goes through all of his talking, whereas you or I would look through all of this and see, like, okay, well, you see this thing. | ||
| This isn't real. | ||
| We've proved that that's not real. | ||
| This thing, we've proved that's not real. | ||
| We've proved so much of this shit isn't real. | ||
| So by your line of thought, I'm just going to go ahead and say that none of it's real, right? | ||
| And he goes, you can't prove it. | ||
| It's all real! | ||
| Which is a little bit different. | ||
| Yeah, that's a problem. | ||
| That's a bit of a problem. | ||
| That's where it goes. | ||
| On the other hand, though, it's so well-researched. | ||
| It's so down to... | ||
| And let me try and give you an idea of some of the things that he'll do. | ||
| He does a couple of academic tricks, which are fun. | ||
| Well, he uses big words. | ||
| I heard that already. | ||
| That's one of the big ones. | ||
| That's one of the big ones, of course. | ||
| But he uses his references very deceptively. | ||
| So I'll give you, oh man, listen to this overwrought prose. | ||
| Typically red-eyed from her continual crying, the banshee appears as a woman with long hair in a green dress under a gray cloak, though others clad her in white. | ||
| The color of bloodless corpses and ghosts, or Greek spirits who appeared pallid because they were deprived of the sun. | ||
| She loves brushing her hair and is considered very dangerous even today to pick up a stray comb you find laying on the ground in case it belongs to the fairy woman. | ||
| The banshee fairy woman? | ||
| Yes! | ||
| Who's crying all the time? | ||
| Yes! | ||
| Man, maybe she just needs a friend. | ||
| Okay, now, he's got three quotes in there, and three references for those quotes. | ||
| Each one has their own reference. | ||
| Now, one of the references comes after, or one of the citations comes after clad her in white. | ||
| Quote, quote, the color of bloodless corpses and ghosts is a citation from that. | ||
| But it makes it look... | ||
| Visually, like he's citing the typically red-eyed from her continual crying, the Banshee Appears line, making it sound like he's backed up the most insane part of that. | ||
| What, the part that she's always crying? | ||
| That she exists at all! | ||
| And that she's always crying. | ||
| All of these things are crazy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| By referencing a different way of describing something as white. | ||
| Oh, wait, the citation is like to a thesaurus? | ||
| You betcha. | ||
| It's just the clad her in white part. | ||
| That's no good. | ||
| Yes, exactly. | ||
| I do think... | ||
| Okay, so just from... | ||
| The perspective... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I feel like that description of a banshee does the banshee dirty a little bit. | ||
| Well, you saw there's four descriptions of a banshee in that one thing. | ||
| But they're all accurate. | ||
| Sure, exactly. | ||
| That's the problem. | ||
| Again, if one of them's real, they're all real. | ||
| Sometimes red, sometimes white, dressed. | ||
| Sometimes gray. | ||
| Always crying. | ||
| Greek. | ||
| Pallid. | ||
| Lads to brush hair. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Don't pick up a comb. | ||
| All of these things are in one... | ||
| Paragraph that has multiple citations to things that have nothing to do with proving that it's real. | ||
| Is the advice that, like, if you see a comb, don't touch it? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It's good advice. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| The weird part is that to this day, like, hey, man. | ||
| To this day, that's still real. | ||
| Like, we haven't aged out of this. | ||
| No. | ||
| Not like an anthropologist being like, this belief still persists to this day. | ||
| I thought the banshee was like, it yelled and it hurt you with noise. | ||
| Well, that's one type of banshee. | ||
| Oh boy. | ||
| From this region. | ||
| The Banshees are well known for their blah blah blah. | ||
| They're silent. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I thought that was like the defining characteristic. | ||
| That's the one thing people know about. | ||
| And maybe that's because of the Marvel character Banshee. | ||
| Well, that could be. | ||
| I mean, I feel like Banshee is a fairly... | ||
| Screaming like a Banshee is kind of an expression. | ||
| It's in the Monster's Manual. | ||
| Dungeons& Dragons style. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| If Gygax put it in a Monster's Manual, it's pretty set in stone. | ||
| What colored clothes does the Banshee have in the Gygax Manual? | ||
| Tattered. | ||
| Tattered. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Someone tell Josh. | ||
| I don't think the color is standardized, but the tatters are. | ||
| Is she crying? | ||
| What did you do to her? | ||
| See, that's what I want to know. | ||
| Well, who wronged the Banshee? | ||
| Well, I mean, everybody did. | ||
| We all share the blame. | ||
| So we get into twin tracks here. | ||
| This is where Kutchen and Strieber kind of start branching on separate pathways. | ||
| Kutchen's going to start talking about his book. | ||
| And Stryber has a story to tell. | ||
| So I think you're going to see these start to play out over this next couple stretch. | ||
| The afterlife isn't some sort of realm where time is held in stasis and you just get to be amongst everyone who's passed on. | ||
| There are ideas in older cosmologies, especially from Egypt or ancient imperial China, that the afterlife was, again, a mirror version of this world where According to that, you would have to get up and work, and there might be technological process that happens on the other side of this veil, just as there's technological progress that happens on this side of that as well. | ||
| Egyptian farmers would have to get up and plow their fields and worship all the same gods, and basically life just continued. | ||
| So once you take that little tidbit of information and you frame it within some... | ||
| So speculation in ufology, which has been around for quite some time, that this is literally afterlife technology, it starts to get really bizarre. | ||
| That sucks. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| He bums me out. | ||
| If there is an afterlife that is eternal and you still have to have a job, fuck. | ||
| The worst. | ||
| I mean, I like podcasting. | ||
| I enjoy this, but I still don't want to do this for eternity. | ||
| Oh, no, no, no, no. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I have no idea why anybody wants eternity. | ||
| That's the worst idea to me. | ||
| It seems tough. | ||
| There's no end to it. | ||
| Now, what that did, though, is that got Stryber a little bit excited, because he started talking about technology from the other side, from the afterlife, okay? | ||
| Like a rake. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Or a sickle for the farmer. | ||
| Well, a little bit different, because Stryber is fairly convinced that his cochlear implant was brought over from the other side. | ||
| It is technology from the Deadlands. | ||
| This makes sense. | ||
| And he is going to start telling us a little bit about it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sounds good. | |
| We'll see what happens. | ||
| Well, I think it must, because I was certainly convinced that that was exactly... | ||
| I mean, that's what he said, what the man said. | ||
| But you know something fascinating about that man? | ||
| And folks, those of you who don't know this story... | ||
| Real quick, this is a long clip, so you can cut in at any time. | ||
| This story meanders. | ||
| Well, sure, but that makes it all the more important for me to pay attention, because I've got to track these dumb thoughts. | ||
| You're going to enjoy it. | ||
| Also... | ||
| Don't you have some experience in the world of cochlear-type implants and hearing aids and stuff? | ||
| Not from the damned. | ||
| Are you sure? | ||
| I'm positive. | ||
| 100% sure they have not been brought over from the other side. | ||
| See, but, I mean, you were involved in that industry. | ||
| This sounds like a cover-up, honestly. | ||
| Well, I mean, actually, I was in the hearing aid part. | ||
| I wasn't in the cochlear implant part, so I only know that hearing aids, thoroughly earthbound. | ||
| See? | ||
| You don't have any grounds to talk about this. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| You're right. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| All of my expertise out the window. | ||
| But there was a doctor who was keen to get it x-rayed, and he was on his way to asking me to get it removed. | ||
| There was a removal attempt years ago that failed, fortunately. | ||
| But in any case, I wasn't going to get it removed, but whoever was involved with it did not necessarily. | ||
| Real quick, when he says it, is it like a tumor or something? | ||
| No, just a cochlear implant. | ||
| He's a dead cochlear. | ||
| I didn't know what the it was. | ||
| It's his other side technology. | ||
| They wanted to reinforce the importance of leaving it in. | ||
| Let me put it that way. | ||
| So a couple of nights before the CAT scan was set up, I had a visit from... | ||
| Two men, one of whom I know. | ||
| And I say I know him because I've seen him three or four times in my life. | ||
| I've seen him when he was a boy. | ||
| I had seen him when I went out to the desert one night to spend just the time completely alone out in the desert. | ||
| And then I've seen him this additional time. | ||
| And he proceeded to explain it all to me. | ||
| To explain the Constantine Rodeve story and everything, then said that it basically had been its technology, as Joshua just said, from the other side. | ||
| But here's an interesting kicker. | ||
| The man is identical to a man I know well in this world who has no idea. | ||
| I'm going to tell him. | ||
| In fact, we're going to have lunch later today. | ||
| And I'm going to tell him this story for the first time. | ||
| He's going to love it. | ||
| He also is... | ||
| I love this story. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| ...to one of the strangest things that has ever happened in my life and in his. | ||
| He doesn't know about it, though. | ||
| He's never heard this story. | ||
| ...to a visitor years and years ago. | ||
| I don't have those now, fortunately. | ||
| I'm not the type. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Anyway, I... | |
| The room was filled with people. | ||
| It was a room in the cabin where it happened and it was filled with people. | ||
| One of whom I knew. | ||
| And he was an intelligence officer whom I've known for a long time. | ||
| And I filed that away. | ||
| I didn't... | ||
| Not important yet. | ||
| Didn't think anything more of it. | ||
| I never told a soul the name. | ||
| Not my wife. | ||
| Not anyone. | ||
| I've never spoken it. | ||
| Fast forward 30 years. | ||
| No, I won't. | ||
| I meet this man that I've just been talking about, the normal human part of it. | ||
| And he proceeds to tell me of his encounter experience, which is total blackness. | ||
| He doesn't remember anything about it except it happened, and he was reading a detective novel. | ||
| He was a boy when it happened. | ||
| I met him when he was a boy, too, or a version of him. | ||
| And he came away from the experience, he said, with only one thing. | ||
| He had been remembered that he had been told to underline a name in a detective novel he was reading, and he was told that this person knew something that he had been told never to discuss with anybody ever. | ||
| The name in the detective novel was the name of the guy who witnessed that sexual encounter with a visitor. | ||
| You were so ready to respond! | ||
| You were not ready for the kicker! | ||
| You weren't ready! | ||
| I will say, for about the last minute of that clip, people can't see this, but I was waving a pen in the air, like, ha-ha! | ||
| Ha-ha! | ||
| And then, yeah, you really hit me at the end. | ||
| Now I don't know what's going on. | ||
| Because here is what I was thinking. | ||
| I was like, I get it. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Because here's what I get. | ||
| This guy is like, he saw this guy as a kid because he, the other guy, the kid, was having a visitation from aliens and all he had was blackness. | ||
| And so he doesn't know anything. | ||
| And that was because the aliens were using him to visit Whitley. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I got it. | ||
| I got it. | ||
| Yes, you got the story. | ||
| You got the story. | ||
| But then the sexual encounter and the name in the detective book, I kind of lost track of that. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| The only name that he underlined in the book. | ||
| That man! | ||
| Hercule Poirot. | ||
| And that's the man who witnessed my sexual encounter with the other. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| Wait, why was someone watching him fucking alien? | ||
| That is unknown. | ||
| This is part of a story that he's told plenty of times. | ||
| He must have. | ||
| But for me, I enjoy the mystery. | ||
| So I'm trying to put together... | ||
| The totality of this. | ||
| So he's been visited by this person three times in his life or so. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And this person looks identical to somebody that he knows in his real life who he's going to have lunch with. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| And this guy, when he was a kid, had a visitation and it was all just darkness. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| And that was because his body was being used to visit Whitley. | ||
| Fast forward. | ||
| 30 years. | ||
| 30 years. | ||
| Now this guy had underlined a name in a detective book. | ||
| Because it was the name of somebody who had watched Whitley fuck a ghost. | ||
| Yes! | ||
| That is correct. | ||
| That is the story. | ||
| Did they talk about this at lunch? | ||
| You know what? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let's hear Cutch's response to this real quick. | |
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It seems like quite a challenge. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Let me give you the full response. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| But that's the one that makes the most sense. | ||
| He's going to say more words, but that's his response. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's like these little mystery boxes that get developed. | ||
| I'm hoping you'll tell me a little bit about the relationship between the guy who I know and who has absolutely no idea of any of the other meetings I've had with him or his doppelganger or whatever. | ||
| What is going on here? | ||
| What are these two people? | ||
| This really relates to your book. | ||
| It does not relate to his book whatsoever. | ||
| But if his book is like this sort of pan idea of... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Then it does. | ||
| It does. | ||
| Everything relates to his book. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| That's the problem. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You can hear Cutch and be like, well, you know, there's stuff inside of stuff and this isn't what I'm supposed to be here for. | ||
| And he's like, screw you! | ||
| We're talking about this guy now! | ||
| Whitley is just like, does this guy who I know in the real world have blackmail on me from watching me fuck a ghost? | ||
| 100%. | ||
| This is what we are... | ||
| Should I be worried about him having leverage? | ||
|
unidentified
|
He seems really concerned. | |
| Interesting. | ||
| It is going to go on. | ||
| He is focused. | ||
| Again, this is another long clip, so stop whatever you want. | ||
| I'm glad for it, though, because I do need context. | ||
| I know. | ||
| Often been tied to all manner of phenomena, and it seems like something like that might be what... | ||
| Was going on in that scenario that you outlined, that a part of this individual may be even displaced from time, for all I know, because I think that time plays some sort of component in a lot of these experiences. | ||
| But a part of this individual was able to sort of wander off on its own and obtain this other information that he normally wouldn't have had access to. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| When I first saw him, he was a boy. | ||
| He was about 13. I encountered him at a baseball game. | ||
| And he was sitting with a gentleman from the Department of Defense, whom I knew, who interfaced with the tall blonde people of legend out in Boulder, Colorado. | ||
| They're gone now. | ||
| They're not there anymore, and that's all shut down. | ||
| But in those days, it was very active. | ||
| And I was rather surprised to see him. | ||
| And I assume he was with three children, and I assume these children were something special because he wouldn't have been with them otherwise. | ||
| And it was quite clear after a couple of moments at the baseball game, I was ended up seemingly randomly ticketed sitting beside them, but there was nothing random about it, I'm sure. | ||
| They could read my mind. | ||
| They were good readers, the kids. | ||
| And so I figured whatever is going on here, I don't want to interface with him directly because there's all kinds of problems that I'm with the Greys and he's with the Vons. | ||
| You cannot imagine. | ||
| Believe me, it's a path that you don't want to go down if you're as deeply enmeshed in this as I am. | ||
| I didn't say anything to him and they left after a little while. | ||
| But boy! | ||
|
unidentified
|
You talk out here about fairy births. | |
| Fairy births. | ||
| He has a, I don't want to call it a talent, but a penchant for switching topics pretty fast. | ||
| That story didn't help me. | ||
| I'll be honest. | ||
| I mean, from what I can take away from that story, here's what's going on, alright? | ||
| He went to a baseball game, and this guy was sitting next to him with his kids. | ||
| And his kids, the guy's kids were talking to him and it sounded like they knew exactly what he was thinking. | ||
| Right, they were good readers. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right, right. | |
| Above their grade level. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| But he wouldn't talk to their dad because their dad is allied with the tall blonde people. | ||
| Right, and he's with the grays. | ||
| And he's with the grays. | ||
| You don't want to be caught set tripping. | ||
| Of course not. | ||
| No, you don't want to be caught in between those two. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| That's just a, you know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But they're still, they're not the big... | ||
| Fight. | ||
| You know, they can still be friendly enough to watch a baseball game in silence. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What age is he? | |
| Because I assumed that this guy who he's going to have lunch with and himself were of similar ages. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so he would be a kid at that point too, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| So why does he know the DOD agent who's talking to the kid if Whitley himself is a kid? | ||
| See, now that's a problem that I'm having too. | ||
| But maybe he's an adult. | ||
| I think he's an adult in this story. | ||
| Maybe he's a bit older than this lunch partner. | ||
| I think in this situation, he's an old man himself. | ||
| This is in the past couple of years or so, this story. | ||
| So he's still in his mid-70s, and this friend is like... | ||
| 50s or so. | ||
| Right, but then he shows up as a kid? | ||
| Well, that's when he saw him in his dreams as a kid. | ||
| How does he know what he looked like as a kid? | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| I don't know what you look like as a kid. | ||
| He was about 13. He knows that he was about 13, and it seems like he was the kid. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| A lot of holes in this story. | ||
| There are quite a few. | ||
| A lot of holes. | ||
| This next part is just funny. | ||
| I just love this part. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| Another thing I wanted to ask you so badly, it's just driving me crazy. | ||
| The ferries, they're adverse to iron. | ||
| My cabin is over one of the largest seams of iron on planet Earth. | ||
| The Iron Mountain record storage facility is drilled into it about 20 miles north of the cabin. | ||
| The whole place is magnetic. | ||
| Yeah, it's interesting because... | ||
| I think that... | ||
| Here's the only thing I think here. | ||
| What? | ||
| Fairy and ferrum. | ||
| You know, the Latin word for iron. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| That's kind of what I'm thinking is at play here. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What's funny to me is that was not a question. | ||
| That was him just telling him that he lives on a bunch of iron. | ||
| Well, he's opening up the question of what's the deal with fairies being averse to iron? | ||
| I mean, I don't know if he is. | ||
| I think he might be asking if fairies will still come to his place if he lives on top of all this iron. | ||
| I would say not, based on the available information. | ||
| From what I can tell. | ||
| Steer clear of Iron Mountain. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| It must be. | ||
| It is just... | ||
| Ferrum, though, right? | ||
| I mean, that's just the whole thing that's going on here. | ||
| That's the whole connection. | ||
| Words sound similar. | ||
| You got it. | ||
| Homophones. | ||
| That's pretty much it. | ||
| Yep, so something we know and love about Alex is his ability to go to ad breaks. | ||
| Yeah, he's the best. | ||
| Best of the business. | ||
| He's amazing. | ||
| Let's see how Whitley compares to that. | ||
| Well, I feel like I was brought here to do a job and... | ||
| It never occurred to anyone involved that there's such a thing as a vacation, so here I am. | ||
| Anyway, I forgot the first break completely. | ||
| You'll be delighted to know Free Dreamlanders, so I might blast you more with a little banner saying to please subscribe, which you will not do, but that's okay. | ||
| Here, let's do a break now. | ||
| Here's a break, and it'll probably be the only break in the show, darn it. | ||
| Okay, here we go. | ||
| Free Dreamlanders, goodbye for a few minutes. | ||
| Watch these things, and then we'll be back with Joshua Kutchen, The Ecology of Souls, and his website is joshuakutchen.com. | ||
| I think he's depressed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think Whitley Stryper is not doing well. | |
| That sounded sad. | ||
| Which you won't do. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Certainly not now. | ||
| No, absolutely. | ||
| Not after that, bitch. | ||
| I was thinking about it. | ||
| I'll put the thing up to tell you to subscribe, but you're not fucking going to, goddammit. | ||
| I don't even care. | ||
| The weirdest thing is that I saw a child who was Whitley, and he told me to subscribe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, no! | |
| Oh, that was cut to 30 years later. | ||
| Yeah, I'm watching him fuck a ghost. | ||
| That's the part that you just can't ever get past. | ||
| That's the end of that story. | ||
| So the break is just a commercial for his documentary about how he was under automatic writing, hypnosis kind of thing. | ||
| And he's telling the story of how he had sex with an alien or whatever it is. | ||
| Boy, that seems really primary. | ||
| Seems like a much bigger... | ||
| What's great about it is it's just sleep paralysis. | ||
| It's so obviously just sleep paralysis. | ||
| They're even just going through like the symptoms. | ||
| Pressure under the chest. | ||
| Everything. | ||
| Everything about it is just sleep paralysis. | ||
| And it's intercut with these lifetime style recreations. | ||
| So there's plenty of like... | ||
| Like that just... | ||
| Oh, so it's so funny. | ||
| Sound effect work. | ||
| So funny, yeah. | ||
| And then as we come back to break, I want you to hear this because this is bananas to me. | ||
| Have you ever read Communion? | ||
| Or have you never read Communion? | ||
| It's out in a new edition. | ||
| Very powerful. | ||
| A subtly new cover that reflects the fact that the visitors are now looking back at us because they truly are. | ||
| You can get it from the unknowncountry.com store. | ||
| As a Kindle? | ||
| As a beautiful, sumptuous paperback? | ||
| Or as an unabridged audiobook read by me? | ||
| No! | ||
| It's the first time in the whole life of communion that it has been read in full in audio format, and believe you me, I felt that reading. | ||
| I put my life, my memories into it, and I trust you can hear it in the voice. | ||
| I sure felt it while I was reading. | ||
| So get Communion. | ||
| Listen to it. | ||
| Read it. | ||
| Communion is of central importance to all of our lives. | ||
| We're talking to Joshua Cutts. | ||
| That was a live read! | ||
| No, I think it wasn't. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That was a live read! | |
| I heard the audio change a tiny bit. | ||
| There. | ||
| I don't think it was. | ||
| I think it was. | ||
| I mean, it's possible, but I think there's a chance that that was proven for you. | ||
| I feel like it was a live read. | ||
| If it was, I pity Josh. | ||
| I know. | ||
| Because that's uncomfortable. | ||
| That was real creepy. | ||
| So I'm looking this up here, and Communion came out in 1987. | ||
| So for the... | ||
| Year I was born. | ||
| Hey, happy birthday. | ||
| Holy shit. | ||
| So for however many years that is, 30-something years, right? | ||
| There's been no demand for an audiobook. | ||
| 36 years, not one time has it been read on audio. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Zero people have been like, hold on, you've got to get an audiobook out there! | |
| We need this, come on, we need this now! | ||
| We need a sumptuous audiobook. | ||
| The publisher wasn't like, hey man, while we're at it, we're going to reprint it, how about you do an audiobook for 35 years or whatever? | ||
| I don't want it. | ||
| Also, I mean, look... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| He must have an audience or a fan base, but I think it's not a selling point that he read it. | ||
| I know! | ||
| I agree! | ||
| I think anybody else reading it... | ||
| Especially if he read it in that voice! | ||
| That weird NPR Garrison Keillor but creepy voice! | ||
| Yeah, yeah, there's a menace in that. | ||
| If you've ever read it... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Or if you've never read it... | |
| I'm going to skip over the next little chunk because they start talking about drugs and DMT and they start talking about otherworldly experiences and then about... | ||
| And then Whitley Stryber's like, hey, have you ever listened to Rogan? | ||
| No! | ||
| No! | ||
| Here's the worst part. | ||
| Then after like five, ten minutes of talking, both of them go, I've never done any hallucinogenics at all. | ||
| None! | ||
| What? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| Get the fuck out of here. | ||
| That's not appropriate. | ||
| Not appropriate. | ||
| So, we're going to skip over that chunk. | ||
| Here's what I imagine it's like. | ||
| We're going to skip over that chunk, and then we'll catch up after they pretend that drugs are bad, or whatever. | ||
| Tell us about the symbolism. | ||
| Well, you know, you've got a lot of these different figures throughout a lot of different cultures that are called psychopomps. | ||
| And if you're not familiar with that term... | ||
| You are just through cultural osmosis. | ||
| We think of, you know, some of the celebrities would be like the Grim Reaper or the Angel of Death or Anubis in Egypt or Hermes in Greece, Odin or Valkyries in some Norse mythologies. | ||
| But these are figures that lead you across that threshold. | ||
| They take you and they guide you across that threshold. | ||
| Depending upon the certain religious system, you might actually see them crop up in your lives during points of transition as well. | ||
| Not only these figures, but also you see certain natural phenomena, like the sun and the moon serving the psychopomp role of carrying souls to the afterlife. | ||
| And you also see animals. | ||
| And the animals that you see almost always embody themes of companionship and or transportation. | ||
| Those are things like dogs, obviously, leading you and guiding you and being a faithful companion. | ||
| Horses, which can take you places that human beings can help. | ||
| Birds, which can travel to places that they can't on their own. | ||
| Also, just anything that is winged, including moths. | ||
| It was very common in certain Mesoamerican societies to think of moths and butterflies as being psychopomps that actually carry the soul away on your wings. | ||
| Well, that's because moths are creepy. | ||
| I mean, that's one reason, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Not like you're not doing this with a butterfly or like a bee or something. | ||
| Well, a butterfly is a psychopomp in Mesoamerican culture. | ||
| What about a bee? | ||
| Bee? | ||
| I think bees are pretty chill, but they've got wings, so they might as well be. | ||
| Mosquito? | ||
| Anything that has wings. | ||
| He literally said anything with wings. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Put it all on the board. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Pterodactyl. | ||
| But here's his... | ||
| The psychopomp pterodactyl. | ||
| Here's his thesis. | ||
| That's my new alias. | ||
| That's what he's doing. | ||
| Whenever he stops doing the anthropology textbook, he gets into the new mythology he's creating, which is essentially this. | ||
| We're all scared of death, and these are all things that we've made up to help us get to dying. | ||
| All of it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| All of it. | ||
| UFOs. | ||
| What do you think a UFO is if not a fairy? | ||
| If somebody was in 1500s, they wouldn't know what a UFO is. | ||
| They'd say it was a fairy. | ||
| If somebody was in the 1000s, they wouldn't say it was a fairy. | ||
| They'd say it was a djinn. | ||
| If somebody was in the 500s, they wouldn't say it's a djinn. | ||
| They would say it's a butt, you know? | ||
| So he's just tracing all this same shit back and back and back until you get to the very beginning and what it really is is we're all afraid of death. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| And yeah, the sun. | ||
| And moths. | ||
| And moths! | ||
| The whole thing! | ||
| Let me try this on. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Psycho-pomp and psycho-circumstance. | ||
| I don't know what that is. | ||
| You love Pachelbel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, you're a huge Pachelbel guy. | |
| Is that your graduate? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, when you graduate to psychopop school! | |
| Pachelbel's Canon in D. Oh, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Pop and Circumstance is the marching band. | ||
| No, it's the marching band, but in my head it's all graduation shit. | ||
| Okay, yeah. | ||
| Because that was the one that was sampled by Vitamin C for the graduation song. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, actually, if you look into the history of Canon in D, you'll find that it's a regular motif for both songs. | |
| As we go wrong. | ||
| Oh, God, I hate it. | ||
| I hate that song so much. | ||
| Don't do this. | ||
| How moths remind us of death. | ||
| I was 15. Oh, God. | ||
| But yeah, so everything is about death. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Or is it? | ||
| I think it must be. | ||
| Or it could be. | ||
| Or maybe not. | ||
| There's more? | ||
| There's more! | ||
| But if you look at the psychopomp motif, a lot of the behaviors of what, you know, popular ufology would call UFO occupants seems to mirror a lot of the behavior that these psychopomps have. | ||
| And what's more, I mean, the UFO is a transportation metaphor. | ||
| Like, that's primarily what it is. | ||
| It's what everybody talks about who's interested in UFOs. | ||
| Where they are, where they come from, how do they go here, look at the way that they travel. | ||
| It's all about transportation. | ||
| And transportation metaphors are almost always metaphors of transition to the other world or to the other side. | ||
| Sure, the river sticks. | ||
| See? | ||
| That's the whole thing. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Now, is it actually about technology from the future? | ||
| Or from the other side? | ||
| Well, I mean, there's technological elements to it. | ||
| The spacecraft. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Or the boat on the sticks. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Stryber's ear. | ||
| Which is a transition from hearing to not hearing. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Argument could be made. | ||
| You know, we know, at least I know, that the other side does have technology because I'm wearing some of it. | ||
| And so, therefore, why wouldn't UFOs be technology from another world? | ||
| Now, that gets me to the fact that... | ||
| That is a house built on sand. | ||
| There is nothing supporting any of those premises. | ||
| Because we've established that my earpiece is from the Deadland, therefore there's technology from the Deadland over here, so why not UFOs? | ||
| Exactly! | ||
| Here's the thing about this, and this is why I feel like this is our most non-racist... | ||
| Interview or whatever to date. | ||
| Seems just silly, kind of. | ||
| Exactly, because there are no metaphors for, like, the other is the Jew in this situation. | ||
| The other is the other. | ||
| It's just, it's real. | ||
| It's the literal other. | ||
| Why are you even talking about Jews? | ||
| It's the land beyond death. | ||
| It's just, it's there! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's no mistaking it for something else. | ||
| You're going to listen to three more episodes of this, and you're like, I take it all back. | ||
| I'm never going to listen to three more episodes. | ||
| That's the point. | ||
| This is pure and fun. | ||
| I think there's going to be quite a demand for you to listen to way more of this. | ||
| This is our new Project Camelot. | ||
| We'll see. | ||
| So anyways, at the end of that, he said, can you guess what the fact is? | ||
| At the end of it, he goes, well, the fact is, can you guess what it is? | ||
| I'll tell you, if you think it's one fact, you are wrong. | ||
| I was going to say something along the lines of, like, you don't need birth control when you fuck ghosts. | ||
| Something like that. | ||
| That would be a fact. | ||
| Now, that gets me to the fact that I have, A, been in another world in a Jeep with another guy's kid, which my listeners all know these stories. | ||
| What? | ||
| And I've ridden a bicycle in another world down this... | ||
| Down the street here about a year ago, a year and a half ago. | ||
| So, are these worlds, is there really sort of an ethereal world of the dead? | ||
| Or are we kind of oscillating back and forth between two very physical universes? | ||
| Or a third possibility. | ||
| No, there are no third possibilities. | ||
| I think that riding the bike in another world is interesting, but far less interesting than him kidnapping a child. | ||
|
unidentified
|
In a jeep and taking them to the land of the dead. | |
| That's right. | ||
| I was in another world in a jeep with another guy's kid. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Every step of that sentence gets worse. | ||
| And then he just goes, the listeners all know this story. | ||
| Like, that's a totally fine... | ||
| It's in the court transcripts. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| Listen, we don't need to go over this every single time. | ||
| I did my nickel. | ||
| Yeah, I can get into the details, but, you know, legally I can't. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| There's an agreement. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| This is an important message to send. | ||
| Don't get into other people's jeeps. | ||
| I mean, again, it's just sleep paralysis. | ||
| That's all this is. | ||
| On a bike? | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| Sleep paralysis on a bike? | ||
| Sleep paralysis on a bike in another world. | ||
| If he's asleep driving this Jeep with another person's kid, that's even more dangerous. | ||
| That's a real problem. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| He should do more than five for that. | ||
| There needs to be regulations on that. | ||
| So finally, Cutch is going to get his chance to talk about his thing a little bit. | ||
| I mean, again, he's trying to synthesize all of this into one just, you know, we're all afraid of death kind of idea. | ||
| I hesitate a lot of times to go down the interdimensional rabbit hole because I think that we conceptualize dimensions in a pretty strange way. | ||
| We think of it as a place that you go when, really, if you look at essays like Flatland and whatnot, it's about... | ||
| It's about, you know, if someone is a two-dimensional figure and you put your finger on the page, they're not going to see your finger, they're just going to see a circle or a dot, right? | ||
| So I think that sometimes we just glitch in and out of these other things. | ||
| And I think that sometimes we go there, wherever you see an instance of missing time, which... | ||
| Happens in, yes, the UFO experience, but also Fairyland experiences, and also NDEs, and also some cryptid encounters, much to my surprise. | ||
| Much to the surprise. | ||
| Even in some instances of shamanic traveling or out-of-body traveling, things like that. | ||
| So you're saying that's all going into Deadland? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| All of it. | ||
| That's his big revelation, and that's why the secret for him is that even cryptozoology kind of situations are actually this whole thing. | ||
| He used to be the guy with otherworldly smells, man. | ||
| He was the one who'd tell you what hell smelled like. | ||
| Sulfur. | ||
| Look, what about the ecology, though? | ||
| I don't feel like I've gotten any grasp on ecological ideas. | ||
| Well, I mean, essentially, it is... | ||
| Here are all these creatures. | ||
| Do they use photosynthesis? | ||
| I mean, honestly, he does get into some things like that where he'll be like... | ||
| But the whole book was about the food. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| No, no, he does. | ||
| He's like, I quote Keats when Keats said that this is blah. | ||
| He's like, clearly, that means... | ||
| Keats didn't know shit. | ||
| That means that fairies eat this, you know? | ||
| It's like, that's totally what he does. | ||
| He just quotes anybody making up anything. | ||
| I will quote... | ||
|
unidentified
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That sounds... | |
| Yeah. | ||
| I will quote this literature metaphor. | ||
| 100%! | ||
| As if it's true. | ||
| As if it's true! | ||
| 100%. | ||
| Is that what he does? | ||
| What a dick. | ||
| I mean, he's got Blavatsky in there. | ||
| Of course, he's got the classics, but he's just throwing in anything. | ||
| He's like, oh, in the Canterbury Tales, we see that horses have actually ridden into the space. | ||
| Well, we know that horses are psychic. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Well, this has been proven. | ||
|
unidentified
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That is true. | |
| That is true. | ||
| So, yeah, I mean, he wraps it up here, and I mean, I kind of... | ||
| There are some things, again, like, his thought process makes a certain amount of sense if you follow it. | ||
| He's just created a completely different world where it happens. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, the thought process is okay, but... | ||
| The looking at empirical evidence should lead you using that thought process to conclude that this is all bullshit. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| He just skipped the part with the evidence. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| It's kind of fascinating, honestly. | ||
| The thought process I don't have a problem with. | ||
| It's the application of it. | ||
| I think what it is, is for so long, you know, we've been living with people who don't live in reality, but in such a way as to exploit it or to, like, alter it in some way. | ||
| Whereas it feels like this... | ||
| This guy was just like, nope, pass. | ||
| On reality. | ||
| Just, nope, pass. | ||
| I'm gonna do something else. | ||
| That's what I'm doing today. | ||
| I'm gonna go to Fairyland. | ||
| Yeah, that's what I'm doing. | ||
|
unidentified
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Cool. | |
| Yep. | ||
| And what happens when a culture, a global culture, has mapped more or less every square inch of the planet and we find that there isn't the other world here on Earth? | ||
| What happens to that? | ||
| I would argue that it gets transposed to the stars and that all that baggage that we've always had of the psychopath. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| pulling this chariot of the sun across the sky, all that gets transposed to this very 20th, 21st century motif of the UFO experience, I think. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| His point is basically, we create things based upon our responses to culture and belief system, and they're essentially the same things going back and back and back. | ||
| We just update them as we update technology. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And the idea that underlies the, like, okay, so somewhere on Earth there is this underworld or whatever, and then we go around and we find there is no underworld. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| So we put it into the stars. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And then eventually we're going to be able to go into the stars and we're going to find it's not there. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So there will be another thing. | ||
| It's because the underlying thought or whatever it is is what's more important than the idea of actually finding the underworld or whatever. | ||
| So now if you were to take this and to just look at it from like, okay, now let's apply this to human psychology. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That seems like an appropriate next step. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| But I don't feel like that's what he's doing. | ||
| No. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Cool. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, it is kind of fascinating insofar as he tries to reconcile that with this idea of co-creation, right? | ||
| So he acknowledges that all of this stuff is in our heads. | ||
| That's the reality of it. | ||
| But... | ||
| But there is also another world where it's actually real. | ||
| See, fairies have a physical body double, my friend. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And that is how things work. | ||
| They exist in your head, except in that other world where they're... | ||
| We create them. | ||
| And they exist. | ||
| And that's how it works, right? | ||
| So we, you know, on a map it used to be there be monsters. | ||
| You know, it's just what you're saying. | ||
| There be hippogriffs. | ||
| It's the inverse of its turtles all the way down. | ||
| You know, it's just always going to be another turtle. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Isn't that, that's the concept, is that like a tulpa? | ||
| Have you heard of that? | ||
| No, I don't think so. | ||
| I believe that's the name of an idea of something that you think of and it becomes real. | ||
| The manifestation of an imaginary thing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's a term that I've heard used in some of these other Project Camelot-y interviews and stuff. | ||
| People with these sort of theosophist or paranormal ideas. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, that's why people love him so much, is because he's trying to make it so everything is real, the way you believe it, but where everybody's mixing things up is they're forgetting that this is all about transitioning into the other world. | ||
| It's not about... | ||
| Fighting or belief systems or whatever it is. | ||
| It's all created because you're afraid of death. | ||
| You mean to tell me that it is okay if somebody who associates with the tall blonde aliens is hanging out at a baseball game with someone who hangs out with the gray aliens? | ||
| And now you have figured it out. | ||
| We've all come to the right place. | ||
| But what if I want to hold on to this idea of others? | ||
| Project Camelot's right around the corner for you, buddy. | ||
| I guess it is. | ||
| And so how does Stryber respond to this tour de force of his argument, the summation of ufology, the whole thing? | ||
| I'm going to guess he says, you lived in Wisconsin? | ||
| And, yeah, excuse me, folks, I have major allergies, as always. | ||
| I think everybody does these days. | ||
| Anyway, oh, I have remembered the break, but I think it's not a break. | ||
| This is the end of the show for the Free Dream Landers. | ||
| The end. | ||
| That was his response. | ||
| I've remembered the break. | ||
| I have allergies. | ||
| I'm confused. | ||
| It's a break. | ||
| Oh no, it's the end of the show. | ||
| Yep, yep. | ||
| That's the whole thing. | ||
| Huzzah. | ||
| Yep, yep. | ||
| That's kind of an ending with a whimper. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Well, I mean, I guess the show continued on behind a paywall, but it's just not happening. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Not happening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But that's where they got into the real stuff, man. | |
| I honestly almost did, just because I wanted to see if he finished the stories. | ||
| The story of the other guy who he was going to lunch with? | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I'm going to guess not. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I would love to... | ||
| Here's what I want you to do. | ||
| What's that? | ||
| I want you to keep listening. | ||
| I need you to find the story of the guy in the Jeep with the other person's kit. | ||
| I do need to find that story. | ||
| For legal reasons, I think you need to find that story. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Because otherwise, we are sitting on something that maybe needs to be reported to the authorities. | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| That is a good point. | ||
| I think we're sitting on a lot of things that might need to be reported in this circumstance. | ||
| Yeah, so this is interesting. | ||
| I mean, it's benign, it seems like, for the most part. | ||
| That's what I was going for. | ||
| I wanted fun. | ||
| Benign fun. | ||
| No looking our eyes away from the veiled bullshit. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| It's just right there. | ||
| It's all real. | ||
| But the lesson that we've learned from doing this show for, you know, five, six years is that that doesn't exist. | ||
| That is still in here somewhere. | ||
| Probably! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But not from the guy who plays the funk tuba. | ||
| That's fair. | ||
| That is always safe harbor. | ||
| If you're playing the funk tuba, I mean, come on. | ||
| It takes a certain confidence to take up the tuba. | ||
| It does. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's not an instrument that most people gravitate towards. | ||
| What's that one? | ||
| The sousaphone? | ||
| Is that the one that wraps around you? | ||
| That's the marching tuba, if you will. | ||
| That's a lot. | ||
| That's a man who's worn a lot of sousaphones in his day. | ||
| And as a former marching band member, I salute you, sir. | ||
| I did not join the marching band. | ||
| Like I said, I played French horn for a little while, and then I quit. | ||
| Because it sucked. | ||
| Well, Dan, that's the end of the episode that I have for you. | ||
| Well, thank you. | ||
| I would say this has been a lot of fun. | ||
| Thank you, Jordan. | ||
| Appreciate you finding something benign to talk about. | ||
| Well, I think next week we'll have an episode for you. | ||
| Probably not in Dreamland. | ||
| No, certainly not. | ||
| I think we may actually even, like... | ||
| Find out what the predictions for 2023 are. | ||
| Ooh, ooh, I'm excited. | ||
| Still kind of up in the air at this point. | ||
| I'm excited. | ||
| But until then, we have a website. | ||
| That's right, it's knowledgefight.com. | ||
| And we are on Twitter. | ||
| Yeah, it's knowledge underscore fight. | ||
| And I am neither Neo, Leo, DZX Clark, nor am I Daryl Rundis. | ||
| I'm not the juiciest ice cube. | ||
| I am, you know, I'm just Jordan. | ||
| You are the psychopomp and psychocircumstance. | ||
| That's what I am. | ||
| And now here comes the sex robots. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
|
unidentified
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I'm a huge fan. | |
| I love your work. |