Today, Dan and Jordan continue to view Alex's Uvalde shooting coverage. In this installment, Alex implores the audience to not blame the police for anything, and workshops ways to make schools more like jails with a guy who used to work for Blackwater. Citations
I'm Harrison Smith, sitting in momentarily for Alex Jones.
He had a family engagement that he's...
Doing right now, so he'll be in within the hour, the bottom of the hour, maybe 30 or 45 minutes, but I'm just going to cover some of the news here in the meantime, but he is on his way.
We have a correction to make, and when we get things wrong, we want to make corrections.
We don't get things wrong on purpose.
And I want to be very, very clear that we're not also blaming the police.
We have a lot of inside information that's also been confirmed, and we have Tim Inlow, who is a police trainer all over Central Texas, and who actually is the main trainer for some of the larger cities.
And there are schools and police departments and courthouses.
He's also the head of our security, but he works almost every weekend and takes off many times during the week as part of his contract with us to continue on with his other separate work.
So he specifically has a lot of sources, a lot of intel.
Yeah, and so I think that he recognizes that temperature is there, and he has a chance to pivot off whatever narratives he's on, and he can start over, basically.
So he specifically has a lot of sources, a lot of intel.
And what I was already hearing this morning was that the police thought it was a hostage situation because he wasn't shooting people.
He went and held a class hostage.
And then when they started trying to bust in to stop it, he killed the kids.
And so everybody's saying, oh, the police are out there tackling people, they're tasering people.
It's a horrible image, and you're a parent, you want to get in to save your children, and it probably would have been better just to rush in, but then you could have got a bunch of kids shot in that process.
It's a hostage situation, and it's the killer's fault that this happened.
So it looks like the way Alex is going to try to make sense of the delayed police response and the new information that's coming out is by claiming that it wasn't actually a school shooting, but instead was a hostage situation.
I can kind of understand how Alex would be coming to this point, but there's still major holes in this idea.
It would make sense to claim that maybe the police thought that it was a hostage situation, but even that doesn't really make sense, given the information available.
Also, just one small note, and this is going to be a little bit murky territory.
Alex is...
Openly talking about having behind-the-scenes secret sources of information.
So the way I was looking at this with judging him solely by what's public information, that kind of can't be how we approach this anymore.
It's not going to be perfect, but he is no longer bound by the public information rules.
So, on May 27th, the Texas Department of Safety Director and Colonel Stephen McGraw gave a press conference where he explained the police decision to not barge through the classroom door.
This was the result of the commander on scene making the incorrect determination that the situation had transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded suspect, which meant deploying different tactics.
That explanation included a determination that because there were so many shots fired immediately, there was likely...
no one alive in the classroom and that possibly the shooter was trying to lure them in so he could commit suicide by cop.
Sure.
unidentified
So that also has problems because there were 911 calls that they received said the people were alive.
The police didn't treat this like a hostage situation.
They allegedly thought there were no more children at risk and didn't think that the shooter had hostages, according to the statements that were made in that press conference.
And there wasn't like a hostage negotiator that came in that didn't slide a phone in or anything.
Alex has some very basic details in here wrong, particularly the part about the shooter not killing people initially.
Ultimately, it's nice of him to do a correction, but he's going to have to do another correction on top of this one.
But, you know, you have to do something, I think, because Alex's entire narrative of the shooting hinged around the idea that this hero went in and took the shooter out quickly.
And that was something that was sold on his show.
And so now you need to...
As more details come out, people in your audience are probably going to hear these things that are contradictory to the story that you've told, so you can't keep going the same direction.
The correction is, we went with the mainstream news that as soon as this guy ran out of his vehicle, crashed it, ran into the school, first he shot at people at a funeral home across the street, then he ran out of the school, and that within minutes, this Border Patrol agent went in and killed him and got wounded.
That's not what happened.
It is the Border Patrol agent that was going to the school first and was outside the door and made the decision when he heard the shooting start.
To get through, but the door's designed to not let shooters get in, so it was a big, steel, barricaded door.
So he had to then find a panicked teacher while the shooting is going on and while bullets are coming to the door at him.
This is coming out to get the damn door open.
So very easy to blame the police.
And when the police are bad, we'll tell you about it, obviously.
You can call in if you want.
We'll hear your views on this.
But the left is using this for more defund the police, more federalize the police.
So there's no indication that the classroom door operates the way Alex is describing, like some kind of a panic room situation, where once a lockdown is initiated, it can't be opened except by a very specific action.
It was just locked.
Colonel McCraw was very clear that not breaking down the door was a decision the police made based on a miscalculation of the situation.
And in his press conference, it's even discussed how Ramos entered the classroom, locked the door, and then unlocked it to momentarily enter the hallway, only to re-enter the room and re-lock the door.
Two additional problems with this idea Alex is putting forth here are, one, if the police had a convenient excuse like we literally could not open that door, that would have been front and center as an explanation for what happened because it would make a lot of the worst details of this police response easier to understand.
It would be like, well...
Now we have a new problem we need to look at, which is...
Disappoints me about the ideological realignment is that the left and the sovereign citizen adjacent types should be in complete accord regarding cops.
Only.
Just like, fuck cops.
No, no, no.
Well, not all the way like the sovereign citizens.
Now, a lot of other stuff's going on, obviously, with the new lockdowns they're pushing, the monkeypox fear-mongering.
And finally, a lot of leaders, not just here but around the world, are getting it.
So going through my stack today, I ran across six or seven articles where people are saying, you know, if there's new lockdowns, it's going to kill tens of millions more people.
We can't allow this.
And cutting off the fossil fuels is going to kill hundreds of millions over the next decade, if not billions.
That society collapses, but still, even the news gets it wrong, like, oh, the left just has bad policies, they don't know what they're doing.
Or Mao Zedong had bad policies that killed 80 million Chinese, he didn't know what he was doing.
Or Stalin and Lenin had bad policies, they didn't know what they were doing that killed 20 million plus people.
No, they're doing it on purpose to take over society and their own admissions.
Here's one of the headlines, leftists are about to kill millions of people right before our eyes.
That is a very important stat, because we need to remember...
All the murder and death and war and open borders and human smuggling and everything that's going on while the media takes a horrible tragedy like this and blows it up to make it the biggest thing in the world.
And if this guy executed one six-year-old, it'd be the worst thing in the world.
Because whether it's one person or a million...
The problem isn't guns, and we all know that if you're being logical.
He can't really find a way to articulate what he's saying there, because he's like, alright, look, there's a lot of bad stuff, so why are we allowing the left and the globalists to turn this into the worst thing ever?
Also, even if you just killed one kid, it would be the worst thing ever.
Ladies and gentlemen, the big scandal right now isn't just the poor 19 children and two teachers that died.
It's that the media first reported, wasn't even the state police or local police or war patrol saying this, but the media said, oh, you know, he ran off in the ditch being chased, shot the police.
Ran into the school, started shooting people.
No, he went in the school, barricaded himself behind an armored door that he was able to get them to open up and get into, or it wasn't locked, to then lock that so that the police didn't know what was going on inside.
And so it went on for almost an hour of him barricaded inside.
Then, this is coming out now, he started executing the people inside.
Now, here and there in the news, they're admitting that's the case, but the big push is, see, we've got to federalize the police or the police are bad, and they stood down.
So Alex is acting like the media wasn't just reporting what the spokespeople for the Texas Department of Public Safety were saying.
He sincerely is trying to suggest that outlets like CNN or The Times, who definitely did get stuff wrong, were just making those things up.
The reason for this is because Alex constantly makes things up, and he assumes that everyone else does too.
He doesn't seem to have any concept that other people don't base their reporting on hunches, vibes, and made-up, decades-old prophetic visions like he does.
Yeah, and the obvious reality behind that, though, is if you follow at Equality Alec on Twitter, he's obsessed with copaganda and the way that the media just accepts unquestioningly the things that the cops tell us and just puts it as their own sources.
And that's where we are.
So if you want to criticize the media in this situation, it's because they unquestionably reported what the cops told them.
And this is what's, I think, a big part of what's going on.
And that is that if Alex were to treat the situation realistically, his new narrative would have some difficulty getting off the ground.
Alex is trying to push this new narrative where Tim Inlow has this inside intel about how it was a hostage situation, but...
This information is coming from where?
The credibility of what Tim has to say rests entirely on the notion that he's relaying information from high-level law enforcement sources who are familiar with the case.
If that's the game you're playing, you can't also be sniffing out a massive conspiracy where the police aren't being forthright about the response to the shooting and have given inaccurate statements to the press multiple times so far.
If you attack the credibility of the police, you're hindering your ability to pass off whatever information Tim has as being meaningful, or at very least, you may have to explain why the information the police have released publicly has been iffy, and the information released to Tim should be believed.
By making the inaccuracies and misreporting that's gone on in this case a situation where the media lied, you can sidestep the need to explain anything, and it gives you a chance to take a fraudulent cheap shot at the media while you're at it.
And that's, I think, a big part of what he's doing.
You can't assume that the police are lying if you have a...
Or even, if you wanted to put it super benevolently, are fumbling their public statements so terribly that they have to make fundamental corrections to this.
You can't have that and also try and be like, we have insider police sources who are giving us the real skinny.
He is going to be in studio with us, and he has contacts in law enforcement and is getting more details right now of exactly what went on inside of that building.
When the police do bad things, we're all over them.
When Soros gets district attorneys appointed and police chiefs that are globalists, we expose them.
I mean, I see cases where...
They won't prosecute armed robbers and killers.
You see that all the time.
There was a school shooting last year up in Fort Worth.
Yeah, that definitely seems like a relevant detail in this case, and not something that he's just bringing up because it reinforces the white victimhood theme of his show, where all non-white people get away with everything.
They kept people from going and saving their kids.
Now we know it was a hostage situation, and that was what was going on.
But if more comes out and information changes, we will definitely let you know.
All right.
We have a lot of other news on the economy, a lot of other news on global starvation, the latest on monkeypox, baby formula running out not just here, but all over the Western world, and more shortages coming as the supply chain breaks down.
That's why it's more important than ever.
Now to keep InfoWars on the air because our supply chain's broken down.
Our costs have all gone up.
I know the listeners and viewers all understand that.
Which speech to the nation did Biden come out and was like, listen, I love being the president of the free world and I have an absurd amount of power and influence and all that stuff.
But frankly, I'm going to give all of that up to some people at the UN.
It's so funny to me how obsessed Alex is with the UN, and then at the same time, like, we're one of only three nations that absolutely hates the UN to their face!
Like, it's us, China, and Russia!
Constantly going back and forth with, like, fuck you, Europe.
Yeah, and just remember, this is just about the amendments to the World Health Organization regulations, where they can declare that something is a health emergency, even if a country is not cooperating.
Alex has learned it's a country, and that's exciting.
So, hooray.
Switzerland is definitely a country with a high cost of living, with three of their cities coming in the top ten of Mercer's cost of living rankings for 2021.
Zurich is number 6, Geneva is 8, and Bern is 10. I'm going to assume that this is a place that's so expensive to live that suddenly getting an $8 million windfall still wouldn't give you, like, a year's rent.
We're here to get the facts on what happened Monday afternoon in Uvalde, Texas.
I wanted to get my friend, who's a school...
Safety trainer for the police, but also does it for courthouses, you name it.
Tim Menlo in on Monday and Tuesday, but he said he wanted to get more facts.
At first, the media said that state police were chasing him with the Border Patrol, and then he crashed the vehicle, ran into school, started shooting people.
That's not the case.
He went in and barricaded himself in a classroom behind an armored door, was holding hostages.
That's confirmed, but it's not being pushed in the news.
You have to dig to find that, and they're just saying the police just stood down.
I'm not sure what confirmed means to Alex, but again, the media didn't just report these things.
They didn't make them up.
They were misstatements made by public officials that were underneath the things that got misreported.
That's an important thing to understand.
Like, when the actual media is getting something wrong, it's generally because there was an official that made an inaccurate statement.
When Alex gets something wrong, like in this case how he reported that the shooter was trans on Monday evening, it's because he saw some dumb shit on 4chan and decided to run with it as if it meant anything.
There's a world of difference between these kinds of getting it wrong, and Alex hasn't even owned up to the fact that he did that.
So there's just some simple facts that Alex is getting wrong here.
The first is that Ramos did start firing pretty much immediately.
He was shooting at the school prior to entering, and within his first minute or so inside, he shot over 100 rounds.
The door wasn't an armored door, and there's no indication that this was a hostage situation.
One of the things that worries me about hearing Alex talk about a hostage situation is that there's a certain high-profile hostage negotiator that Alex is friends with, and this could be a way to shoehorn Pachanik back into the show.
It's just a little childish to pretend that you can't have...
I have criticism of the police response and also at the same time keeping your mind that the person who did the shooting is responsible for doing the shooting.
So maybe Alex has an expectation that the audience can only keep one thought in their head, because through 20 years of empirical evidence, them getting yelled at by him, they can only keep one thought in their head.
Yeah, and one of the things that's even weirder about it is that I don't know for sure, obviously, but it sounds a lot like the information that came out the next day.
But it's not the information that Alex is reporting.
And I think that there's a weird distinction here.
Well, first of all, I'd like to say that we're still in the very, very early stages of the investigation, right?
So there's new facts coming out literally every hour, every day, right?
But what we're hearing right now is just as you alluded to at the intro, and that is that...
It now appears that some kind of contact was made with the shooter by law enforcement before he went into the school.
And then somehow he managed to enter the school, enter a classroom, and then potentially lock that door or somehow barricade that door to where law enforcement couldn't immediately go in after him.
The other thing is that I'm hearing is that, you know, at first we were led to believe that this guy ran into school and just started shooting.
But now they're saying that he may have been in that classroom for upwards of 30 to 45 minutes not killing while law enforcement kind of treated it as a barricaded subject type call rather than an active shooter call.
I just, I hate having to live in a world where we lived through all these Obama years where these people were the fucking, we'll start shooting and we're amazing and we're the fucking strongest tea party shit.
And now they're whinging bootlickers trying to protect the cops from even the slightest bit of accountability.
And unfortunately, I think what we're probably going to see and what I'm hearing is that at least the very initial officers that were on scene, that they probably did not have the breaching equipment that they needed to immediately breach that door.
And let's think about, we'll come back and go through all this, Tim, and your expertise on it, which is great to have you here, and I appreciate you being here.
Imagine the police have to go in and then see all these dead kids.
They're not the villains.
They're trying to protect us.
And obviously, these police in Texas, we know, wanted to go in.
And a Border Patrol guy did finally kill this crazy animal.
But just the media changing the subject of the police is not good.
Obviously, the primary responsibility for the shooting is on the shooter, but this is a pretty embarrassing presentation from Alex, just the way he's going about this.
There are some very serious anomalies with this situation, and his instinct as the world's number one conspiracy theorist and arch-nemesis of the police state is to implore the audience not to question details of the police response.
I'm empathetic to the police and what they have to go through, particularly on a day like that.
But to pretend that the media is unfairly scrutinizing this thing or that people are blaming them for the shooting, that's a dishonest framing.
This is so out of character for Alex that I don't know what to think.
The police have said that they didn't enter the classroom because they felt that they were no longer kids at risk and things had gone from an active shooter to a barricaded suspect.
But this is severely called into question by the numerous 911 calls that people made from inside the room.
Unless no one was talking to anyone else, that assessment of the situation that they made should never have been that far off from reality.
A detail like that is what Alex makes his living off of.
You go back and you look at all of his supposed suspicions about past mass shootings and they're all stuff like that.
In terms of Sandy Hook, Alex made a big deal out of the erroneous claims from Wolfgang Halbig like that they didn't let paramedics and EMTs into the school and he latched onto shit that flimsy in order to craft his conspiracy narrative.
And yet in this case he doesn't seem to be doing the thing that he tends to do.
Worship the police brown-nosing position, because I know the police have their own problems.
The globalists are trying to immunize police departments to take them over, so then we really will have a problem, like the police in globalist-controlled countries.
But just as a father, because I know you've got children like I do, older ones, younger ones like I do, and...
It obviously hits you in the guts.
Some of your children just had a graduation yesterday.
My five-year-old daughter just turned five on Cinco de Mayo.
She just had her graduation today.
You look at this, you just can't imagine somebody doing this and executing children.
And again, let's not forget, that's who did this.
And you can't expect a plumber to come to your house and fix the pipe in an hour.
Imagine police showing up, and they don't even know what's going on, and they're told there's a guy barricaded in with children.
Then that process happens.
The image of them tasering people and arresting people trying to break in.
I don't blame those parents either.
This is a mess.
But it's the evil guy that caused this.
But just getting into training or getting into any points you want to make, Tim, because, you know, I'll just take over here.
Well, again, I think the biggest thing I'm seeing, and I didn't tell you this before the show, but I actually wrote my kid's superintendent yesterday, right?
Because he issued an email about the shooting and everything.
And, you know, it was the standard, oh, you know, we're so sorry about what happened.
Our hearts go out.
And then he mentioned an increased police presence possibly at the school for the next few days.
Well, their idea of an increased police presence was an officer pretty much in plain clothes with just a pistol that was inside the school kind of walking around.
And again, this goes to equipment and it goes to mindset.
For an officer to be walking around with an assault rifle in a school.
Why?
Because it freaks, you know, they think it's going to freak parents out.
You know, the thing I was thinking is that, sure, America has the most people in prison ever and are worse than apartheid-era South Africa and are racist enforcement of that policing.
But the problem was, kids weren't already in prison.
Like, what they should have done is make prisons from the beginning.
You know, like, you turn six, you go to prison.
You've got an armed guard walking around with an AR-15, making sure that you're safe.
And more importantly, first of all, not all schools have, still don't have, school resource officers or police officers stationed at the schools.
It's time that changes.
Every school in America needs to have an armed Well, I went to a little tiny private Christian school my daughter goes to, and for the first time ever, they had an armed security guard out there.
Do you remember earlier on in the episode when he was like, well, we've got all these lockdown things, but then when they get in, they can use the lockdown measures against you, right?
Now, let me throw this out there to you.
What if I can't afford an AR-15, right?
I don't work.
I'm just a seven-year-old, right?
But I know where to get one because it's following me around all goddamn day!
I think what we all need to come to the realization of is that if there is a report or if a subject is seen going into a school armed, it doesn't matter at that moment if he's shooting or not.
That suspect has to immediately be confronted by law enforcement.
There's such a difference between them that one is totally fine and normal, and the other is someone who maybe should be killed on sight because they can't be up to any good.
It's impossible.
It feels like the difference is that one of these people has a gun, and them having a gun seems to indicate they have bad intentions because of where they are.
This isn't something that people like Alex and Tim should ever accept as a possible conclusion, because if you accept this, so many of their gun arguments start to fall apart.
The issue for them is that they're opening the door to accepting the idea that there's something about having a gun in a certain place that means that Yep.
Again, we don't know yet if this is going to be a training issue, whether or not they were waiting because they didn't hear gunshots immediately, or whether the suspects started shooting and they couldn't get in.
Within a few hours after the shooting, Alex relied on a 4chan hoax to report that the shooter was trans, playing his part in a bigoted hate campaign.
Throughout that broadcast, Alex and Owen incessantly accused psych meds of being responsible for the shooting with zero evidence the shooter was even on meds, something that they still have zero evidence of.
Now, he's trying to get the cops off the hook for their inaccurate statements by reporting that this was a hostage situation and the media made stuff up.
The sole feature of Alex's coverage has been disgusting opportunism.
He can point the finger at this nebulous boogeyman of the left, but he's just talking about himself.
So, look, Tim has this information that he's bringing forth to Alex, this special exclusive information.
And one of the things I find really interesting about it is that some of it is accurate, at least in terms of what is going to be reported the next day, press conference.
So the latest report, which was posted about an hour ago, says that at 11.32 a.m., he did exchange gunfire or gunfire was exchanged outside the school.
And then he managed to get into school.
And then the latest report says at around 11.43 a.m., he's reported killed.
So we're looking at probably around 11 minutes from the time he was shooting or there was gunfire.
So you have that, which is not necessarily exchanged gunfire.
Maybe there's some inaccuracies about that.
So that's right around right before he ends up entering the school.
But yeah, the 11 minutes, 14 minutes, or whatever he's saying there, that is very not accurate.
Yikes.
So yeah, I wonder how that's possible.
I mean, I'm guessing maybe...
You know, there's a confluence of sources that he has, maybe, and some have some information that the police are going to reveal, and some of it is wildly off-base.
If I was going to speculate based upon this type of thing...
And what I know, I would say that there's a good chance that he's got some friends who are in Texas law enforcement, but are not specifically there, and they have friends who were there.
And one of the things that kind of troubles me about this is that, like, that directly contradicts the stuff that Alex is saying about the hostage situation.
We have so many portable buildings now at schools because schools don't have the funds to build hard building or they don't have the space or whatever the case may be.
This is ridiculous, because Alex doesn't believe in medicine, he doesn't believe in psychologists, and the very idea of locking people up in asylums before they've committed any crimes is in direct contradiction of his beliefs about the Bill of Rights.
I also would caution him that based on his very public statements and beliefs that he's espoused, he might find himself on the wrong end of getting institutionalized if this were a common...
The issue is that most of the public funding for mental hospitals has disappeared and private mental health hospitals often aren't covered by insurance plans, and Medicaid does not cover long-term mental health care.
Nope.
unidentified
A large segment of the population has basically no access to these institutions, and many people who would be helped by them end up in prison because they don't have access to these things that may prevent them from...
There are a ton of variables that go into the very sordid history of mental institutions, and a lot of these trends actually were already in motion somewhat before Reagan slashed the funding for state centers in his 1981 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act, which is where a lot of people point to because it was a big blow.
Yeah, but it's fair enough that many people don't have access to the mental health resources they need, but the way Alex is talking about this is stupid.
And I need to point out that a major point of Alex's belief is that, like, MKUltra assassins were brainwashed in mental health facilities.
But that does make you a pretty fucking good profiler if you just live in a world where everything you say is right and you say the same thing every time.
And, you know, the most people that were shot in a situation like this were nine.
Now you go to where there was no person armed, a good guy, present, armed, and who acted, and they waited to call 911.
And now the biggest number, like, was the Pulse nightclub.
So you're looking at 102 people shot, right?
So nine people versus 102 people.
And that's just one example, right?
Like if you go down the list where they called 911, it's 34 people, 102 people, 34, 22, 47, 70. 28, 31, 46, 43, 46 again, right?
And on the other side, when there was somebody, a good guy that was armed and acted, now the highest number is 9, but then it immediately drops down to 4, 5, 2, 1, and 1, right?
Like, it's just, there's a huge difference there.
So, again, this is just dishonest discourse by Biden and them.
We know that good guys with guns have and continue to save lives.
This list that Tim has may seem really convincing to an audience that already believes the conclusion, but the data doesn't back up what he's selling.
For every instance of a good guy with a gun stopping a shooting, you can find an instance of someone not intervening or someone having their gun used against them.
On a very basic level, the National Bureau of Economic Research released a study in 2017 that found that, quote, right-to-carry laws are associated with 13-15% higher aggregate violent crime rates 10 years after adoption.
Further, a 2013 study in the American Journal of Public Health reviewing data from 1981 to 2010 found that for every percentage point that gun ownership increased in a certain area, firearm homicide rates increased by 0.9%.
The good guy with the gun stuff is fun to fantasize about if you're someone like Tim or Alex, but in the real world it doesn't have the statistical backing to be something you'd really want to seriously rely on.
ideology gets so popular that you end up having a shooting and there's not one guy with a good guy with a gun there's ten good guys with a gun it's probably going to be pretty difficult in the fog of that whole thing to know who's a shooter and who's a good guy with a gun seems like it would get really chaotic if this was taken to it's like logical conclusion yeah Yep.
I think that's a really sincere articulation of what Alex really thinks at this point, and explains why his coverage is so much of an ass-kissing exercise for the police.
In his mind, the globalists and the patriots are fighting for control of the police, who are in essence the paramilitary group that holds the monopoly on the use of state force.
At this point, the police are very much on Alex's team's side, as evidenced by their differing treatment of protesters, among other things.
So when I'm talking about Alex, like, just, like, these things are contrary to things that are deeply held, like, core Infowars shit, like, this is one of them.
This is almost coming off like a prank, quite frankly, because this seems so disconnected from what's supposed to be the bigger picture of what Alex is about.
For one, he believes these shooter drills traumatize children and are meant to train them to live in a police state where they have to comply with the orders of armed men.
Armed shooter drills are meant to prepare the next generation to live in tyranny and to train them to be afraid of guns, which is why the globalists do them.
Alex believes that if you run a drill to prepare for something, you're secretly about to do it yourself.
There are countless examples of disaster preparation drills or anti-terrorism drills that Alex has insisted would just cover for the globalists to do the real thing.
He should hate the idea of widespread, never-ending shooter drills, if only because he should think that it would give the globalists unlimited opportunities to cloak their french fries in a drill.