Knowledge Fight - #351: Jordan Takes The Wheel 2

Oct. 4, 2019 - Knowledge Fight

01:43:52

#351: Jordan Takes The Wheel 2

# white_house_die_in_protest warm_water_coral us_emissions_decline 15°c_warming 2013 2019 401ks alex_jones alfram_study basic_income_earth_network bice book_it_program childrens_anxiety climate_activism climate_change climate_scientists co2_emissions connor_friedersdorf dan_friesen environmental_policy fox_news fracking greta_thunberg heroin humor_and_satire influenza_deaths ipcc jordan_holmes knowledgefight marc_morano mark_moreno media_criticism methane_emissions misinformation north_american_shale_gas ocean_pollution ons personal_pan_pizzas plastic_pollution policy_wonks poverty robert_howarths_study single_use_utensils sporks stuart_varney technocrats trump_era_policies twitter_confrontation uk_office_of_national_statistics un_climate_address

Jordan Holmes and Dan Friesen dismantle Mark Moreno’s climate denial, exposing his cherry-picked stats—like falsely claiming U.S. CO2 emissions are record-high—while debunking Trump-era rollbacks that spiked emissions 3.4% in 2018. They mock his "medieval witchcraft" attacks on kids’ solutions and highlight fracking’s methane surge, per Howarth’s study. Contrasting Moreno’s "evil" framing with Greta Thunberg’s nuanced urgency, they stress actionable steps over fatalism, like ditching single-use plastics to counter misinformation. The episode underscores how climate rhetoric thrives on outdated data and deliberate distortion, demanding smarter, spite-driven advocacy. [Automatically generated summary]
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Participants

Main

dan friesen

39:38

jordan holmes

53:36

Appearances

alex jones

infowars 01:01

greta thunberg

swe 01:19

marc morano

02:53

Clips

michael bloomberg

00:10

stuart varney

fox 00:27

Large

Audio Only |

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Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Dan and Jordan, I am sweating.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Knowledgeparties.com.
		It's time to pray.
		I have great respect for knowledge fight.
		Knowledge fight.
		I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys.
		Shang, we are the bad guys.
		Knowledge fights.
unidentified		Dan and Jordan.
unidentified		Knowledge fight.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Need money.
		Andy and Kansas.
		Andy and Pandy.
		Andy and Kansas.
		Andy and Kansas.
unidentified		Andy.
unidentified		Andy.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		It's time to pray.
		Andy in Kansas.
		You're on the airplane for holding us.
unidentified		Hello, Alex.
		I'm a fish pin colour.
		We're here today saying I love your word.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Knowledge fight.
		Knowledgefight.com.
		I love you.
unidentified		Hey, everybody.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm Jordan.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm Dan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is a podcast where we like to sit around and drink some novelty beverages.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And while we're at it, we like to talk a little bit about Alex James.
unidentified		That's right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We do, Jordan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Jordan.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Jordan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What is the first time you ever felt achievement?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Ooh, the first time you found a newspaper.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you won a race as a youth, or maybe you went to the winner.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I will tell you this.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know this little league.
		Crazily.
		I know this specifically.
		It popped directly into my mind, and I will tell you what it is, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Dan, were you ever part of the Book It program?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You don't get to ask me a question in response to my question.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's where what I'm doing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I understand that's a rhetorical technique.
		I was.
		I was a part of Book It.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I remember in first grade.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You win those personal pan pizzas?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		I won in like one week.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I won eight personal pan pizzas.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's too many.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like, I just went all out.
		I don't think I read a book again for like six months, but for one week, I read all of the books.
		And that was the first time that I truly felt like I had achieved something.
		Taking that first bite of a personal pan pizza.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's how you soothed all your wounds from when the rest of the class kicked your ass for that.
unidentified		Exactly.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Nerd.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You are correct.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I was looked at with just absolute disgust by everybody.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I can only imagine.
		When I had that, I read so much that it sort of embarrassed the rest of the class.
		And I remember it brought me to tears.
		The mockery, the book it programmed.
		So that was not a sense of achievement for me as much as it was a shame about accomplishment.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I had one saving grace, which was that in my class, there was another woman, a woman.
		It was first grade, so she was a woman.
		By now, she's a woman.
		And she had always read more books than everybody else.
		She was like famous in the class for being that person in the class.
		Everybody knew.
		Everybody knew.
		The whole school, Dan.
		And I kicked her ass that week.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So that was a big deal.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		People didn't.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Was she taking an off week, you think?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Was she going easy on you?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, she had like six.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was serious.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, they're probably like, I don't know, Ramona Quimby, age eight, right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's the kind of books we're talking about.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about Cam Jensen.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I was all about the Red Wall series.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It was 300-page-long books.
unidentified		All right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was up to.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's too many.
		But those are easy to read.
		No offense.
		Those are easy to read.
		And you're youth.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, it's fine.
		It's fine.
		But Dan, today something that isn't easy to read.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's the best transition I got for you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's not bad.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Is what we're going to talk about.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So we've got here's Jordan.
		You're taking over this episode.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's the plan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And to give people a little bit of context of why it's like, you know, listening to the present day stuff, I was thinking about doing another Friday episode for Friday about Alex's intensity in the present day.
		But it's very similar to what we talked about on Wednesday.
		So I felt like it would be kind of repetitive and not really serve anyone's interests all that well.
		And simultaneously, I thought it would be kind of abusive to go and do another Boston bombing episode and keep going through 2013.
		Two episodes like that in one week seems like a lie.
		And then, you know, some of these Wacky Wednesday folks aren't bringing it.
		There's nothing really good over Project Camelot Land.
		Reverend Manning, I don't really think.
		I think we got to.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I think we can never.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think we got to the bottom of that guy.
unidentified		I think we can let that one go.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Coach Dave's boring as shit.
		A lot of these other candidates just really aren't all that interesting.
		Someone like Steven Crowder, you know, we can't do an episode about him.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No interest.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's joking.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, quote.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I considered a number of these overt white supremacist type YouTube thing.
		The right supremacy.
		Like the president.
		Sure.
		But those things aren't really all that in our wheelhouse to talk about because they are overt with what they're talking about.
		Right, right, right, right.
		It kind of takes away a little bit of the shine if you're like, hey, you guys are being racist.
		And they're like, you bet we are.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we love it.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		All right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that kind of invalidates our criticism a little bit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so it's tough.
		And it felt like this is the perfect time.
		It's been far too long.
		Let's get back into letting Jordan take over and seeing what happens.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's the one day of the year Dan remembers my job is actually difficult.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think I will relearn that once again.
		We'll find out.
		I don't know anything about what you're going to do.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Except I have a hunch that it'll be probably surrounding one of your big piccadillos.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, as you know, I have two main issues.
		First, I am very passionate about climate change and the danger.
		And second, I am very passionate about choosing weird, weird people to hate forever.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		For instance, why do I hate Connor Friedersdorf so much?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, partially because he validated you by getting into a Twitter fight with you.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		In all casely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Hey, I have been fighting Connor Friedersdorf for years.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but he just responded to you.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It was lovely to call him a dumb-dumb to his face.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That was one of the more surreal things ever.
		The sort of TV talking back.
		Yeah.
		I was watching on Twitter as that unfolded.
		I was like, ooh, Jordan is not wilting from this.
		He throat punches right back at this nationally syndicated columnist.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What are you going to do?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What am I going to back down to his shoes?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Let's take this to the DMs.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, I got him.
		And then, of course, the combination of both of those things, insignificant weirdos to hate and climate change, is my big boogeyman, Mark Moreno.
		He is a giant piece of shit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That was certainly what you went over on the last time you took over the show.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And now I aim to prove that we never, and not just we, but no one ever needs to speak to Mark Moreno ever again.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's very exciting.
		And we'll get to that proof in just one moment.
		But first, we've got to take a moment to say thank you to the people who have signed up and are supporting the show.
		So first of all, Thomas, thank you so much.
		You are now a policy wonk.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm a policy wonk.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Thomas.
		I had a buddy named Thomas that I always used to call Tomas, and it really, really pissed him off.
		I won't do that to this very kind donor.
		Next, Aaron, thank you so much.
		You are now a policy wonk.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm a policy wonk.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Aaron.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Next, Tom, thank you so much.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You are now a policy wonk.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm a policy wonk.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Tome.
unidentified		Tom.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The Tom team is strong on this episode.
		Next, Scott, thank you so much.
		You are now a policy wonk.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm a policy wonk.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Scott.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Next, Gian Luca.
		Thank you so much.
		You are now a policy wonk.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm a policy wonk.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Gianluca.
		And then finally, I'd like to say thank you to a couple people who donated on an elevated level.
		We appreciate that very much.
		So, first of all, thank you so much, Danny.
		And then thank you so much, Josephine.
		You are both wonderful technocrats.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm a policy wonk.
		Crikey, Mike, that's fantastic.
		Have yourself a brew.
		How's your 401k doing, bro?
		We got to go full-tailed buggy on this, Watson, all right?
		Let's just get down to business.
		We ain't making that money off that heroin.
		Why are you pimps so good?
		My neck is freakishly large.
		I declare info war on you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, Danny and Josephine.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you very much.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		If you're out there listening and you're thinking, hey, I like this show and what these gents do, I would like to support it.
		You can do that by going to our website, knowledgefight.com.
		There's a button that says support the show.
		We would appreciate it.
		It would be all you, buddy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, Dan, today we're going to talk about Mark Moreno.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He wound up on September 23rd going on Fox News of this year.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The same day that Greta spoke to the UN.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Greta.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He was on both Fox and Friends and Fox Business.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		His counter-programming.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That makes sense.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And we're going to talk about his interviews.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Do you mean to tell me that Fox News didn't just call Lord Monkton?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, it's a surprise, right?
		They might as well have.
		But before we get to those interviews, Dan, you're going to have to play this out-of-context drama.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All right.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		If we can go to Walmart, buy a solar panel, get off the grid, we can stop this nonsense about the Green New Deal.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's my favorite, favorite quote.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, is he expressing that if we all went to like renewable energies, then we wouldn't need a Green New Deal?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He is just saying that as a sarcastic aside, it's just like, sure, they say that we need renewable energy, and wouldn't it be lovely if we could all just go off the grid and burn down pipelines and shit.
		Then we can stop the Green New Deal.
		And it was just, it was just absolutely surreal to listen to that.
		So he shows up on Fox and Friends first because it is the morning show naturally.
		And it is filled with the type of dumb-dums who are going to allow him to say absolutely ridiculous things.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about the deuce.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I am talking about Steve Deucey.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm talking about Brian Kilmead.
unidentified		Kill me.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And I am talking about whoever else they have on that show.
		Sure.
		But the thing about him is if you are booking him in 2019, you know exactly what he's going to say.
		And it completely invalidates your show.
		He has nothing new to add.
		He has nothing that hasn't been debunked a million times.
		He is not referencing anything that he has not talked about.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's no groundbreaking information that Morenos bring into the table.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		For a decade.
		For a decade.
		So you put him on your show for one reason and one reason only, and that's to spread climate denial propaganda.
		That's it.
		And if you put him on your show, it's an admission of guilt that that is what you are trying to do.
		Okay.
		Because, god damn it, if he hasn't, I mean, it's ridiculous.
		But this time, he has one wrinkle.
		He has done some man on the street interviews, Dan.
		And you know how we love man on the street interviews.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		These people are so convinced that those mean something.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's wild that it's so you find it in so many different places.
		You know, like, I mean, I guess Fox News and Infowars aren't too far from each other spiritually, at least.
		But yeah, that idea that they're just like, you know what?
		We asked seven people on the street and edited together three of their responses.
		Boom.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Did it.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We win.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's weird.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're supposed to be news.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Here's the weirdest part.
		Or at least, I don't think this is weird.
		I think this is brilliant as far as strategy goes.
		Unlike so many other Man on the Street interviews where the idea is, we're going to catch these people who are uninformed.
		We're going to edit together to make it look like all these climate people are fucking stupid.
		We took care of that.
		They did something really, really, I think, smart, which is they got all these kids to say 100% true and accurate things, and they did it well.
		Every one of these people nails it.
		Every single thing they say is correct.
		And it's just like we talked about where they're going for your strength to make, like, they're attacking you on the strength.
		They're not trying to swift boating.
		Exactly.
		They are swift boating.
		They are not trying to make these people look stupid.
		They're trying to make their ideas stupid because they're coming from children.
		That's their plan.
		So here's our first interview.
		This is the first thing that they play.
unidentified		You like Greta over Trump?
		She's helping make the world a better place by helping clean up the environment, by trying to help clean up the environment.
		Trump's doing the exact opposite.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Both of them nailed it.
		That one girl is about like eight years old.
		And then the other one looks like she might be related to her, but nobody knows because she just hops into frame and she nails it.
		And she's just like, and Trump's doing the exact opposite.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I guess what the argument from that clip that I can gather is sort of like just the idea of like, if you believe this, you agree with children.
		Yeah.
		And it's like, hey, man, children are sometimes right about things.
		Like, chicken fingers are great.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know, like it's not universally, children aren't wrong about everything.
		Their reasons for believing that what they believe that I agree with might be different.
		Like, we might have different paths to a conclusion, but I love chocolate too.
unidentified		Right, right, right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know why it's all food stuff.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I guess you're.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're recording around one, so you know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am because I have a baby mouth.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But still.
unidentified		You have a what?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		A baby mouth.
unidentified		What is a baby mouth?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard that term before.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's something like it gets yelled at me by friends a lot because I don't like a lot of foods.
unidentified		That's what they say.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you got a baby mouth.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I always heard you're a picky eater.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, that's basically what it means.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I prefer baby mouth.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So much of it comes down to the texture of the food for everyone out there who's curious.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't like tofu.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Get it away from me.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right, right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I cannot chew that.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's disgusting.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I've made my piece.
		Me and kids agree on that too.
		And that Greta's better for the climate than Trump.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Easily.
		That's the insidious nature of it, though, is that they want you to associate.
		Look at how silly this girl is.
		She's jumping and screaming, and Trump's doing the exact opposite.
		But if you took all that, just the same exact words that those kids said and put them from some random talking head on CNN, they would sound perfectly reasonable.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There's no way that you could take those words in that order and say that they're wrong.
		You know?
		So they don't do that.
		They don't react to that with like, and here's how Trump is helping.
		They just laugh at her.
		They're just like, look at how stupid these kids are.
		So if you see, so the idea is if you're watching Fox News and you see them talking shit about these kids, they're saying the exact same sentences, and you're laughing at them because they're children.
		And then on CNN, somebody says that later that night, and you're like, that's what that stupid children said.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a good strategy.
		Killing or shooting the messenger kind of thing.
		You don't have to deal with what's being said because you've already said, fuck this kid.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of which, they're supposed to be like the family values.
		Like we protect the children.
		We celebrate the child.
		God bless the child.
		You know, that kind of network.
		And yet there they are using just the appearance of children as being to make an idea stupid.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's great.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Good stuff.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They're wonderful.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's good stuff.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Now, Dan, let me ask you: do you know why children love Greta so much?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Probably some sort of version of seeing themselves reflected in her a little bit, some sort of identification factor, the idea that she's making positive change in the world, that they, through her, believe that maybe they too could make positive change in the world.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's my guess.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that sounds very reasonable.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		You would be surprised to discover how wrong you are.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		What is it about her that has interested so many young people?
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Well, she sells fear.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's what it is.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She's a fear salesman.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's why the youth are so into Alex Jones.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They love fear.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		That makes sense.
		I thought they were going to say it was the pigtails.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		No, it would have been lovely if there was some, what is that?
		What's her name with the pigtail?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Pippi Longstocking.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Pippy Longstocking.
unidentified		That's it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I was also thinking of what was the other one?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's another piggy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, there's another young woman who is always in a field or something.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Are you thinking of the Ricola salespeople?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They sell fear.
		What else is there when you hear a giant screaming?
		That's a tornado siren.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Yeah, I don't know if I agree with them so far.
		I'm trying to take a really objective stance, as I'm known to do on this show.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Naturally, naturally.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't seem like.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What's fun to me about that is literally he is saying throughout this entire interview, we need to be afraid of Greta.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And he is basically telling that to everybody who is watching the show, while at the same time starting with, Greta's the one who's trying to make you afraid.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And that's why you should be terrified of Greta.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Now this from our sponsors.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That kind of thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Our message is one of hope.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hope that is only found in fossil fuels.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Whereas this 16-year-old scaremonger is out there trying to make you afraid.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So be afraid of her attempts to make you afraid.
		Exactly.
		I bring you the warm, soft, comforting blanket of cold.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I see where this is going.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		That's basically where we are going to keep going with this interview.
		It is all like, here's what's wrong with Greta.
		Here's how Greta is hurting you.
		And what's best, what's the best part is there's always like, and also, Greta is hurting your children.
		She is also doing that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we heard a bit of that from Alex as well.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Here, Greta Thunberg started in Sweden every Friday outside the Swedish parliament, and it spread to skip school in order to have a future.
		In other words, she's actually said, and she's addressed the EU, the United States Congress testified that why should kids go to school if they have a future that will be no more unless government passes laws like the Green New Deal, more UN treaties.
		See?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's her fault entirely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She's telling all your kids to not even go to school, Dad.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Little does Mark Moreno know I dropped out of high school probably before Greta was born.
		There's other reasons.
		She's just weaponizing that towards a positive goal.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She's weaponizing dropping out of school.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or skipping school or whatever.
		The fear that people have of their kids not being formally educated or whatever.
		I think you can make an argument for that.
		Right.
		Maybe.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I don't know how much that's destroying kids.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it's destroying kids at all.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And dropping out of school didn't really hurt me that much.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I still went to college.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
		It's no big deal.
		And the thing about that is it is unbelievable how quick all of this happened.
		It's really, really amazing.
		Like, here's when Greta started a year ago.
		That was it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Those are the strikes, right?
unidentified		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She started by skipping school on what is it, August 20th, 2018.
		She skips school and goes outside the Swedish parliament, telling them they need to do more on climate change.
		On the 26th.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think Soros told her to.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, naturally.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Naturally.
		On the 26th, she did it again.
		And this time, a bunch of other students and teachers and parents all came along with her.
		In September, she began to do it every single Friday.
		So this is September 2018.
		This is about a year ago.
		And all of a sudden, students in other schools are doing the same.
		In November, more than 17,000 students walk out on Friday.
		In February of this year, the protests take place in 30 countries.
		In March, Greta Thunberg is nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.
		So from when she started it in August to March, she got a Nobel Peace Prize nomination.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		See, now the path that you're describing, this quick progression of it and stuff, like this is what the right wing uses to argue that there's no way this was organic.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know, like what you're doing is laying the track that those people used in order to be like, this is all bullshit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right, of course.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		AstroTurf.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Now, at the same time, in March, more than 2 million students over 135 countries start walking out.
		In May, she's named one of the most influential people in the world by time.
		She started this when she was 15, and in eight months, she is one of the most influential people in the world.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you have this in your research.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Has Mark Moreno ever been named on that list, or has he ever been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He did get one for literature inexplicably.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's got a Pulitzer.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was him and Steve Pieczenik, both of their work on Tom Clancy novels.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think I read that in their bios.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And then in August 14th, she gets on a climate-neutral boat to be, she's invited to the UN climate summit.
		Again, she is six fucking teen.
		And then on September 20th, on September 20th, that was the climate strike that took place in over 185 countries.
		The number is incalculable of people who participated in that.
		And then on September 23rd, she finally speaks to the UN.
		I hope everybody has watched and seen the entire video, but it's just impossible.
		Like, I watched this speech the entire time, and then I watched people talking about it on all the talking heads, and they're just talking about it very calmly.
		Like, Greta Thunberg speaks to the UN.
		That is not how she sounds.
greta thunberg ▲ ● ▼		This is all wrong.
		I shouldn't be up here.
		I should be back in school on the other side of the ocean.
		Yet, you all come to us young people for hope.
		How dare you?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She had the balls to say that to the fucking UN.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not like the UN's going to kill her.
		Like, I mean, I understand that it does take a lot of strength, and I'm not taking that away from her at all.
		That's an amazing act of bravery.
		And, like, when you're 16, I don't think that most people would be able to just give a speech, period.
		Right.
		Let alone something that confrontational to the most powerful people in the entire world.
		They're the most powerful.
		But again, it's not like they're going to kill her.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Really?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's not like she became an incredibly famous figure and now people are sending her death threats all day.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, but who is the people?
		Who are the people sending her death threats?
		Not the UN.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, Putin called her a bunch of names.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a little different.
		It's not like Juncker or whoever the people who Alex points a finger at.
		Right.
		That doesn't take away anything.
		No, no, no.
		I'm just saying.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, I get it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But just for comparison, go ahead and play the.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is Bloomberg.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
michael bloomberg ▲ ● ▼		And let me also thank President Trump for coming today to the United Nations.
michael bloomberg ▲ ● ▼		Hopefully our discussions here will be useful for you when you formulate climate policy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not like they're going to kill it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a real juxtaposition of strategies.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of strategies or being a giant piece of shit like Bloomberg.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I fucking hate him.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know enough to say.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That was 20 minutes after Greta Grammy's speech.
		Like, that's what he came back.
		And let's hear her one more time.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
greta thunberg ▲ ● ▼		You have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she's.
		I can't get over this.
		I cannot get over the fact that she is 16 and she is saying that.
		I could barely do that now, let alone when I was 16.
unidentified		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And the amount of pressure and everything that she has been under and how she has responded to it and the fucking steel will that she has is so unique that it's it's hard to comprehend.
		I really could not.
		I cannot say enough that Greta is truly a fucking hero, beyond anything that I think I've encountered in a long while.
		She's very forceful and she's right and she's telling the world off and she's making sure that everybody knows.
		But you know, what she's representing is a large group of young people ostensibly, who are worried about the earth and worried about the you know their future.
		Now you would think that climate change is a threat to their future.
		Right right, not true?
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Mark Moreno knows what the real threat to children is now in Europe, where kids are getting anti-anxiety medication.
		They believe they're gonna die.
		She is the Greta effect.
		She's causing and instilling fear in millions of kids around the world.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yep, it's Greta, she's the real threat.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Dan mental uh, illness and anxiety disorders did not exist before August 20th 2018.
		You are correct.
		So this makes sense.
		This checks out.
		Yep congratulations Mark, you've made a spectacular argument.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, uh.
		And now I was looking into this because he said the EU specifically and I was like, why would you choose the EU?
		I couldn't find anything specific to the EU that makes any sense.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's because she's Swedish, I would assume.
unidentified		Right, they're not taking anxiety.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, I mean, like she's you, she comes from a European country, so that's why he's saying EU.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, I mean, that's true, that's I feel like it's just that simple.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're probably right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's my guess.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're probably right yeah, I.
		But the thing is, I couldn't find anything about the EU.
		But in March of 2017, the American Psychological Association released a 69 page report about this very idea.
		This climate induced anxiety right, and it has a bunch of tips for mental health professionals on how to how to deal with what they call solostalgia, the distress that is produced by environmental change impacting on people while they are directly connected to their home environment.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Here are some of my favorite tips, okay, sunscreen Cribbed, Baz Luhrmann.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They did not add sunscreen, strangely enough.
unidentified		Shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Tip number one: build belief in one's own resilience.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not a bad tip.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty good generally.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't even apply to soul aesthesia or whatever this is called.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You'll find a running tally of that.
		Those are just general good tips for tip number two: foster optimism.
		Not a bad idea.
unidentified		No.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Tip number three, cultivate active coping and self-regulation skills.
		Tip number four: maintain practices that help to provide a sense of meaning.
		And tip number five, promote connectedness to family, place, culture, and community.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		These are all very specific to climate change, right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		Here's the fucking bullshit about this.
		First of all, these are trite, but good.
		They're good.
		No, they are good.
		They're not specific in any way.
		These accusations that someone like Mark Moreno would be making of she's like causing anxiety and fear and all this stuff.
		This would be totally right on if Greta was getting up and being like, hey, you know what?
		This is all bullshit, and we shouldn't do anything about it.
		We're all going to die.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, if she was coming out with a message of nihilism and just like this tune out, like, let's all form a death cult now.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Then, yeah, sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But then she'd be even more my hero.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Part and parcel of the message that's being sent is, you know, there are things we can do and there are things that we should do.
		So along with the anxiety, there is that might come up in some people who hear the message.
		There's also an optimism.
		There's also a clear, actionable set of things that can be done.
		Right.
		And so I don't know.
		I just don't, I don't buy, I don't buy the idea that climate activists are causing that kind of a reaction because there is action.
		There is a way of averting the negative outcomes that would cause fear.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, I just don't get it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they're liars as well.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
		I mean, that does hurt.
		In Moreno's eyes, obviously, the real fear is Greta and what she's doing.
		She's telling kids all of this stuff, and now they're anxious.
		They're all losing their minds.
		Now, that hasn't been shown to be true at all.
		But climate change does have a demonstrable effect on mental health.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, geez.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The concept itself.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Just raising temperatures.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Not the concept.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The thing itself.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The phenomenon.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not the concept.
		Yeah, the phenomenon.
		With two studies, one in 2001 by Anderson et al. and another in 2005 by Simister and Cooper.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sinister?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Simister.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		Right?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It seems like it should be.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I thought it was the guy from Avenged Sevenfold.
		Sinister.
		Is it called Sinister?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I thought it was another Ethan Hawk movie.
		Could be.
		They showed a causal relationship between increased heat and increased aggression.
		You know, it's in summer's in Chicago.
		We all know the death toll goes up.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's really fucking annoying to be hot.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think we all know that just on an experiential basis.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's fucking really bothersome.
		I'm a sweaty dude, too.
		It's even worse.
unidentified		It sucks.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Think of that.
unidentified		Every little bit, every little day, the higher temperature causes more and more aggression.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Furthermore.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got to think about how expensive it is to use air conditioning.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm just trapped.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What if you can't afford a freon?
		Right.
		Which also is killing the planet, in case you were wondering.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're damned either way, which causes more heat, which causes more frustration.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		God.
unidentified		It's a vicious cycle.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And also, it's not just like aggression towards other people.
		Quote, higher temperatures have been linked to increased levels of suicide.
		It appears that the this is from a study in 2006 by Lee et al.
		It appears that the distress of feeling too hot can overwhelm coping ability for people who are already psychologically fragile.
		Climate emergencies can also exacerbate pre-existing systems, symptoms, and lead to more serious health problems.
		Right.
		So it's probably not Greta that's increasing our difficulty there.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But the worst one, the one that destroyed me, is in 2013, a consolo Willocks, which I don't know if that's how you pronounced it, they examined the impact of climate change on a small Inuit community.
		These people have very personally and directly seen climate change in action.
		It's not like they're living in Illinois.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's not as abstract.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It is right fucking there.
		They see their land disappear.
		They see their hunting grounds disappear, just like most endogenous species in all of those places, except they can tell people how it feels.
		And they specifically said that because of this change, they started feeling insecurity, anger, stress, but most of all, a loss of community.
		Like they didn't feel connected to each other as much anymore.
		And the elders were specifically concerned about the preservation of the Inuit language and culture.
		This quote is damning.
		We are people of the sea ice.
		If there's no more sea ice, how can we be people of the sea ice?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that makes sense.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That sounds tracks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		As we see climate change progress, the biggest issue I think is one that we're not really talking as much about.
		And that is the massive amount of displacement combined with the loss of community and the increase of aggression.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, and there's so many, like even urban areas that are going to be around the world that are going to be uninhabitable.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That like the displacement won't just be from like coastal areas or anything.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It'll be, yeah, it could be pretty severe.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah, absolutely.
		And he's not really terribly interested in the mental health effects of climate change.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What about the people in the farmers in India that had all their crops diminished?
		And there's that study about increased suicide rates among them.
		Does he care about that?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Syrian civil war, most people attribute that to that is most people, or most scientists who've studied it, political scientists as well, think that that's probably the first war that's directly tied to climate change.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I was unaware of that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there was a drought in the mid-2000s that caused all of the previously disparate farming communities and all those small communities to lose all of their food.
		And so they had to move to the city, and the city wasn't ready for an influx of that many people.
		Nobody had jobs.
		You have 18 to 23-year-olds with less than 60% employment and kaboom.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that makes some sense.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I was unaware of those variables and action.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, nobody's saying that it's entirely just because they had to move.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There are a few grievances in Syria aside from like a couple.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a few bad guys.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But again, Dan, we get back to the children.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Won't someone think of the children, Dan?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Someone needs to.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And that person is Mark Moreno, and he has something that he would say to a child.
unidentified		Mark, a lot of kids, you know, they watch their other friends say certain things.
		They jump on board.
		They celebrate, you know, Earth Day and do all these projects.
		Peer pressure.
		Exactly.
		If this were your child, though, what would you tell him or her?
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, I would tell them the government can't legislate the climate.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I mean, it's fair.
		It's true to some extent.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know, but.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You can't pass a bill.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The temperatures are going down.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know the idea, though, of him, like, what would you say to your child?
		I imagine his child being like seven or eight.
		He's just like, well, first off, government can't legislate climate.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not, you know, don't be afraid.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That would be nice.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Something like that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Reassuring.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I also love the idea that Deucey just jumped in there and called like engaging with the curriculum peer pressure.
unidentified		Yep.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like when I was in sixth, seventh grade or whatever, they made us learn about like one month was monarch butterfly month.
		They had to learn all about goddamn monarch butterflies.
		Next month was pastas.
		They had to learn about different pasta shapes.
		Like, I don't want to learn.
		This is stupid.
		It wasn't peer pressure that made me learn those things.
		It was the curriculum.
		You're in school.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You were told to by authorities.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I learned about pasta.
		Now I know quite a bit about different shapes.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't remember most of them.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I did for a while.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There was a time.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The one that's like spaghetti but spinny.
		I remember.
		I knew about that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that has a name.
		Yeah.
		It's spinny spaghetti, right?
unidentified		Nope.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Certainly not.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Probably not.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		13-year-old me could have told you all about it.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that sounds good.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		35-year-old me.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not so much.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Spinny spaghetti.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Is it called frozen pizza?
		It is now.
		I don't know what Mark would actually say to his own kid about the climate change, but he has called Greta an autistic prophet.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's not been very complimentary to her.
		I imagine he's not great with kids.
		That's my guess.
		But he doesn't think that you can legislate climate change.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't legislate the climate.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, you cannot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Which is fair.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's a technically accurate statement.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		Otherwise, I'd pass a bill that these damn plants need to start getting some peppers out of them.
		Wish I could do that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You still don't have any peppers?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Pass a bill right here.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Peppers now.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We, the people of the United States.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Plant watch.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Things are not going great.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Things are not going great?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Short version of it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Why is that?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I made a mistake.
		I didn't realize that you had to plant each sapling or tree, like seedling in its own pot.
		I planted some, like two or three to a pot, which made sense when they were tiny, but now they're big, and I'm realizing I'm going to have to try and disk.
		And I don't think I'm able to do that.
		And it's getting cold in Chicago, so they can't be by the wind.
		I could get a heat lamp.
		Look, there's a lot of struggles.
		I didn't plan ahead.
		I don't know any of this stuff.
		If I could legislate, I would do it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I think that would be a good idea.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Next planting will be better next season.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I'm sorry, I didn't mean to derail there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, actually, you have nailed it on the head.
unidentified		Here's the problem with Greta, right?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And with really all the kids is.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's not the pigtails?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's not the pigtails.
unidentified		It's that they just don't want to work, Dan.
unidentified		That's it.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Say, if you really want to protest, do something challenging.
		Why would you skip school?
		That's an easy thing for any kid to do.
		Give up social media for a couple days.
		Give up your iPhone.
		Give up your tablet.
		Let's see how long they go without social media.
		That would be a protest that would.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Greta's issue.
		She doesn't do anything challenging, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		I guess there's different definitions of challenging.
		You know.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I just think, like, you know, there's consequences that can come from skipping school or from encouraging everyone to skip school.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's consequences that come from that, and taking that sort of a risk is a challenge in and of itself.
		So, like, yes, the act of skipping school, if you want to go smoke weed and play video games, sure.
		I mean, there's a risk to it.
		There's a little bit of a challenge, but you're not coming out and saying, I'm skipping school to do this.
		You're trying to hide.
		You know, the openness about it is what and the meaning behind it, I think, adds a little more of a challenge.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Would you say that it's more challenging than giving up social media for a little while?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		People are really into social media.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Did she have to give up social media while she was taking a climate-neutral boat across the fucking Atlantic Ocean?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But also, that boat ride.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty challenging, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		As we know from conspiracy theorists, that boat ride didn't happen because her hands weren't sunburned when she got off the boat.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's a conspiracy theory I've seen passed around.
unidentified		Is that right?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't mean were her hands really sunburned.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't care.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't care what that is.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I was telling you that all the hand-based conspiracies about.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but I didn't know there were that many.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What other kind of hand-based conspiracy theories are there?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Something about the size not being right.
		I don't know.
		I have no idea.
		I didn't look too deeply into it because it seemed crazy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it does sound crazy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, I mean, I don't know.
		I guess partial.
		What I would say is, like, this is always going to be a way to attack people who make moves.
		And that is to say there's something else they should have done.
		Yeah.
		Because there will always be that.
		Like, let's say you go on a hunger strike, but you're still using your phone.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But why didn't you give up social media?
		You just gave up food.
		It'll always be.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you do something challenging?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Your body's just going to eat its own fat.
		You're fine.
		Social media now giving that up is tough.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		God, I really feel like we are not that far away from that actually being an argument on Fox News.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, but I mean, if you want to make a disingenuous argument against anybody who's doing something, you'll always be able to find it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, it's just a matter of how craven do you want to be?
		How open?
		Like, how transparently full of shit do you wish to be publicly?
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And we see.
		All right.
		She's done this thing.
		Why didn't you do the other thing?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I will set the standards by which the integrity or like anything of your protest is judged by.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And I deem you to be failing.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Great.
		It's just amazing to have, yeah, that naked craven attitude of like, this girl is about to speak to the UN.
		He's given this interview like an hour before she goes up and he's telling her to do something challenging.
		Bananas to me.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely bananas.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But after that, after he insults Greta in every possible way he can think of, we finally get to the sweet man on the street interviews.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, hell yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And we've they've Did they subcontract Mark Dice?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, no, they did not.
		They were they did not allow him anywhere near there.
		But yeah, they edited together three interviews and I think you'll see a little through line there.
unidentified		It'd be better to eat things in season and eat like a lot less meat.
		The change that we need isn't just like everyone needs to change their lifestyles and their own habits.
		We need to restructure the economy.
		He went from using sporks to like separate forks and knives and they're all individually wrapped in their own plastic.
		It's really confusing.
		Bring back the sporks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Now, which one do you think they focused on?
unidentified		Spork?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course they did.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But to be fair, that's not like maybe she didn't articulate that all that well because you're saying, like, I don't know, and like sort of stammering through it.
		That's not really that nonsensical of a position.
		Like, whatever, like, I don't know.
		I guess I always resented my parents growing up because, you know, no re like only reusable things would ever be acceptable.
		And, like, they refused to buy me lunchables because there's too much trash in them and stuff like that.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And I always hated that because I wanted fucking lunchable.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right, of course.
unidentified		Everything.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But my friends had them.
		Yeah.
		Little sweets in there with little pizza.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Segregated foods.
unidentified		That's what you're.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But as I've grown older, I kind of realized that they had a pretty good point.
		That was like, you know, it's so much less trash than, I don't know, you get some box of like this giant Costco box of something and then Tupperware.
		Absolutely.
		It makes sense.
		All I hear when that last person's talking about sporks is kind of similar in the sense that if we had, we could cut down on a lot of trash that we're creating, especially plastic trash.
		Yeah, I don't know.
		I could see how they would make fun of her, though.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Motherfuck's fucking news.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I mean, there was a little laugh there at the end, which suggests the second person was like, the concept is correct, but I'm making a little joke out of that last little part.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And the concept.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, spork's a fucking funny word, man.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It is a funny word.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The concept actually is 100% a very, very good idea.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But even intuitively, I know you're about to explain why, but even intuitively, it does make some sense as long as you're not primed to mock it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		No, if we were, like, because the idea that they're expressing is if we took one, if we have forks and we have spoons, that's twice as much as if we had one utensil.
		It's a, we're, theoretically, like, the idea that they're expressing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You could even make a little serrated piece of it and get a knife in there, too.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You could have a uni utensil.
unidentified		Yeah, I like it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Unitensil.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Unitensil?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We're going to be rich.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're going to be rich?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We'll make twice as many as we did of forks and spoons.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		100% already exist.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But go ahead.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there are about, let's see, in Science Magazine, published on February 13th, 2015, a study found that there are between 4 and 12 million metric tons of plastic poured into the ocean everywhere.
		There are, and it's insane how many, there are garbage barges going just spinning around the fucking ocean.
		But maybe even more important is that plastic itself producing it leaves a massively high carbon footprint.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Totally.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So everything about plastic is bad.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And cutting it down in half would be ridiculously good.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Now, granted, that's not cutting down plastic use in half, but it's cutting down a half of one sector.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, it's not completely correct, but they are mocking it in a very stupid way.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's like that wouldn't solve everything, but it would do something.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's another part of their insidious plan: even the most simple possible solutions mock them mercilessly.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That way it's impossible to do anything, especially if it's a large thing.
		Most importantly, any reduction is huge, especially at this point in time.
		But they don't want anything like that.
		Not only that, there are also.
		Here's the other thing about plastic.
		There's a third way that it's fucking everybody up.
		There is a lot of pollution in the production of plastic that has to be there.
		Usually, the plants are built near water almost all the time.
		And a study done by the Clean Water Association shows that in the Bay Area, two-thirds of litter on the streets was made up of single-use utensils, single-use utensils, and that kind of shit.
		So, not only that, but we'd be dealing with less litter on top of it.
		Every part of single-use silverware or forks and spoons is massively destructive to everything.
		There's nothing good here.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Counterpoint.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Counterpoint?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		When I make turkey bacon, I've found that if I use a metal fork to flip the bacon, it often will end up scratching my pan.
		Meanwhile, plastic fork doesn't do that.
		Ergo, I love disposable silverware.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That is an inarguable.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hit me up, Mark.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Let's go at Fox News, Bucks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He could really use your help.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He could work some of this shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And I'll tell you why.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because he's a little bit repetitive.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't imagine that.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		It's just, it's almost like medieval witchcraft again, where they just believe if we can use the sporks, we can save our planet and have a future.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Witches.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That one is.
		I don't know if that was the right one.
		Can you hold on?
		Play one more?
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		I like to say that this is no more than medieval witchcraft.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That one's from 2016.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, go ahead and play the next one.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Or a United Nations treaty can save our parks, can save the Statue of Liberty, can save a species of rat in Australia.
		This is just the height of what I call medieval witchcraft.
		And what President Obama.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, that one was 2014.
		Go ahead and play one more.
		I think that's the next one.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		It's no better than 1450 when Aztec priests encourage people to sacrifice to the gods to end the drought.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There we go.
		That one's from 2011.
		I don't know if this is a good idea.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This guy seems to have real rhetorical flourish that he likes.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Do you see what I'm saying?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		When I say everybody knows exactly what he's going to say when he shows up on your interview, quote unquote.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's going to call climate change stuff barbaric wizardry.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Cool.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's his plan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Do you know how many times he said it?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we've got like, what, five so far?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So far, yeah.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		$20 a day.
unidentified		Tridium?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yep, that's $100 trillion.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's what makes sense.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's just about.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I had to find a way to get that one in.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're getting fancy with clips.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I love $100 trillion.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I can hear him say that over and over and over.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear it one more time.
unidentified		Okay.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		$20 a day.
unidentified		Trillian?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He just doesn't understand the concept.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this is, I mean, I guess this is fairly similar to some of the Alexi kind of shit, you know, like calling things witchcraft and putting that association of like, oh, giving kids vaccines is just the same as Aztec priests killing children and sacrifices.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's more similarity there than I'm comfortable with.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this is on Fox News in 2019.
		Yeah.
		There's more to that interview on, or quote, you know, fake interview on Fox and Friends, but it just turns into, you know, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren say we shouldn't fly, but they fly all the time.
		They say we shouldn't eat meat, but they eat meat all the time.
		It's one of those, it's one of that same, you know, I have a clip of him saying very similar things in 2011 as well.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like it goes all the way back and back and back.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you fail to take into account is these are good arguments.
		Makes sense you would say them over and over and over again.
		No one has rebut the witchcraft.
		That's true.
		That's true.
		Gonna keep doing it until someone steps up.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't think anybody could ever do that.
		No.
		So later on in the day, after being a complete idiot before Greta's speech on Fox and Friends, he goes on Varney's show on Fox Business.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're not talking about Janet Varney.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Not Janet Varney.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Definitely not Jim Varney either.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		He's dead.
		Well, no, we established he faked his death.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		And this is after Greta's speech.
		And I don't know who this guy is.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me see.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I've never watched Fox Business before.
stuart varney ▲ ● ▼		I think that the solutions.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I know this guy just by his voice.
		I've seen clips of this guy.
		I don't think I like him.
stuart varney ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Quote unquote, the solutions to climate change that are being offered.
		Are they still popular in Europe?
		Because Europe is really suffering from these so-called solutions.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		They're suffering.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Seniors are suffering, and UK winter deaths have increased.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		If this guy wants to know what the Europe people are thinking, why didn't he call Lord Monckton?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know, right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm seeing a real disinterest in Lord Monckton, even on Fox News, which troubles me a little bit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I think Moncton's getting kicked to the wayside.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, probably.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Probably because he's not actually a lord.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They only like lords on Fox News.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's part of it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And Mark Moreno is the lord of climate denial, as we know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Stateside.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So people in people are dying?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		People are dying because of cold.
		People always talk.
		This reminds me of the last episode where he said basically the same thing.
		People talk about heat deaths, but, you know, why doesn't anybody talk about the winter deaths?
		Huh?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We talked about some of that with Alex's stuff, too.
		And like those cases that he would bring up specifically, you look into them, and they're like, there's so much more going on here.
		This has to do with financial stuff.
		This doesn't have to do with climate change measures or anything.
		This is all just about poverty.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And that is borne out by the Office of National Statistics, which is the most British name I can think of for a government agency.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		ONS?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we've got, these are our national statistics.
		That's what we do.
		In America, we call it the Office of.
		Check this out.
		Because we're cool.
		We're poochy.
		That's what I'm trying to say.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's going to be a tough acronym.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's going to come back.
		But actually, what I found out was that winter deaths have increased.
		I was all geared up to be like, this is completely made up.
		This is all bullshit.
		I don't even need to worry about this.
		But the number of excess winter deaths, that's what they measure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by excess?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's what we're talking about there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Comparing the excess number of deaths in winter to the other three-month periods.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So if there's an average number between, what is it?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		April and July and July and September and October and through there.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's an average of, let's say, 100.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Then there's 115 in winter, then it's excess deaths.
		Of 15.
		All right, okay.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So this year.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, that sounded very judgmental.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The ones we don't need.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Slopping off the winter.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, I don't like the way the ONS is framing this.
		This sounds shitty.
		These deaths are excessive.
		Go ahead.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Get out of here.
unidentified		Come on.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Get out of here with these deaths on us already.
		But yeah, in 2017 to 2018, it was the highest number of excess winter deaths they've recorded since the 70s.
		And that is mainly due to increased influenza and, of course, poverty all the way around.
		Nothing to do with climate change.
		And it's an even further disingenuous argument because while, yes, you can say it's the highest recorded number since the 70s, it is also one half the number since the 50s.
		So it's like absolute bullshit.
		The trend overall has dipped down from the 50s over and over and over again.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of that probably has to do.
		I know I looked into this a while back, and I'm not sure if it extended to deaths, but like complications and illnesses and stuff along those lines have like you see a drop in them when measures are passed that make it so like the electric company can't turn off the electricity government.
		Absolutely.
		Even if you don't pay your bill, they can't turn it off during they have to wait until fucking April.
		Right.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Measures like that that are protective have cut off a lot of, which I think all societies need.
		That needs to be across the board everywhere.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It seems like it would be obvious that it needs to be across the board.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Those sorts of things are very protective about that.
		And then when you consider resources for people who are experiencing homelessness, fast response to people who are like – I remember when there was a blizzard the last time here in Chicago, there was a lot of focus put on like if you see someone outside, report them so we can make sure that they don't stay outside.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		A friendly message from your local neighborhood ice office.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, that wasn't ice.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Just kidding.
unidentified		I could see how that would be abused now.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, those sorts of things will put that number down to as low as it can possibly go.
		Even with severely inclement weather, winter temperatures.
		So I feel like those are better solutions to look at than whatever Mark is talking about.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		got it uh he is absolutely this is it's it's amazing how i have never seen him give any statistic straightforward i've never I've never seen it not once.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Even if it's one that's not even damaging or like it's almost unrelated.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What about excess number of witches?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Witches.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Do you get that from the ONS?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They die in summer, though.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There's the excess number of witches.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		In the rainy season.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		When it's dry out, yeah.
		Yeah, so it is kind of amazing to me because even this is just a cherry-picked statistic.
		Like he had to say from the 70s.
		He couldn't possibly be like, well, it's twice as many as from 2014 or whatever.
		He has to create this cherry-picked stat that is misleading.
		It's just stupid.
		And he didn't have to do that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's how a lot of people use statistics.
		That's why you have to be really careful with those things.
		Whenever you hear people using statistics, you should be wise to look into context and look at larger trends that they might be ignoring.
		That's something that's just so consistent across all this sort of media.
		I bet some people on the left are guilty of that too.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm positive.
		I don't spend enough time focusing on those folk, but I'm sure that it's used on both sides of persuasive arguments.
		Oh, for sure.
		People just need to be conscious of that.
		It's such an easy game to play.
		You sound like so irrefutable whenever you pull out things like that.
		Those sorts of incomplete stats.
		It's bad.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is why I still want to know what the OPS of the slugger in major league is.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's unknown.
		They gave us stats at the end.
		Had like 38 home runs, a few doubles, but they didn't give me what his on-base percentage was.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And that's what I was really looking for.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And you know what pisses me off is that no Sabre metrics type of organization, no fantasy football league you're going to play ever tells you what a team's pumble rating is, which is punts divided by fumbles.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's a very crucial statistic to understanding.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I like it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It tells the whole story.
		Punts divided by fumbles.
		Mark, get on it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking to Zuckerberg?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Moreno.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Moreno.
		Okay, I got you.
		I didn't know he had control over that too.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, he should make himself useful.
		Just like Greta shouldn't be going out of school.
		She should be getting off social media.
		You shouldn't be doing this bullshit.
		You should be getting on pumbles.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I like it.
		I like it.
		Oh, man.
		But do you know what?
		The biggest, the biggest problem that people have, the biggest misconception that people have is, of course, they can't believe it's not butter.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's usually the start.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're doing great.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
unidentified		You're doing great.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're interrupting like I do.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're doing wonderful.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I wasn't proud of that last joke.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, hey, welcome to the fucking club, friend.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I guess you just deal with that saying.
unidentified		I'm just trying.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You've called me out on it a few times, and it's been lovely.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Fair enough.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was going to let that one slide.
		But what are you going to do?
		What are you going to do?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Misconceptions.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There are an excess number of jokes that die on this show every attempt.
		Yeah.
		So, do you know what people are not paying attention to?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		How great we are and how we don't need to do anything else.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		We're doing better in the United States than these European signers who are going to be at the UN summit in New York shaming President Trump.
		We're doing better.
		We're leading the world in CO2 emission reduction.
stuart varney ▲ ● ▼		Zach, nobody ever points that out.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Nobody ever points that out, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I feel like I've heard that pointed out.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's been pointed out a lot.
		It has been pointed out a lot.
		Specifically by Scott Pruitt, noted, definitely not corrupt monster, Scott Pruitt.
		In 2017, he said, quote, we are leading the nation, excuse me, the world with respect to our CO2 footprints in reductions.
		This is another bullshit, cherry-picked stat.
		Because what he did and what they are doing is they are judging us differently from other countries.
		They are talking about the way that China and India both emit more carbon than we do overall, right?
		Because they are fucking huge.
		Then, then, wait, is that a conspiracy?
unidentified		No.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They're actually small.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I was being glib.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The Mercator production is actually right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		India only has three people living in it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And they were the ones who got the Fed pass.
		Right.
		So, yes, they are absolutely huge carbon emitters.
		But when you go by per capita, you find out that the U.S. produces 16.5 metric tons per capita compared to China's 7.5 and India's 1.7.
		So it is kind of an accurate fact that America has reduced emissions more, but in terms of what we're doing, it is absolutely nothing.
		Like we went from, in terms of reducing emissions, the 16.5 metric tons was in 2014, and it had gone down by a little average of like 1.5% to 2% per year around that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But also, doesn't it not matter?
		Yes.
		Like, I mean, doesn't that argument even as a whole, I understand the point, like the facts you're trying to bring up, and that's all good and well, and very worthwhile, but like just saying that other people aren't doing good doesn't mean anything.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's just a faulty construction of like a deflection.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, ah, you say we bad.
		No, bad, bad over there.
		You bad.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, that doesn't help anything.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's disingenuously trying to attack every possible counter-argument in advance.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, but also, doesn't his sort of argument here actually strengthen the counter-argument that other people are doing worse?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, yes, that means we need to be even more serious about this.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it does.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You would think that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It kind of falls apart upon any kind of inspection when you're not talking to old Varney over here.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		An idiot, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And the deuce.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Also, he is wrong as of this year.
		Shit.
		In 2018, almost directly due to Trump's bullshit, the EPA's complete abdication of any moral responsibility and so forth, emissions rather than dropping rose by the largest amount since 96.
		It was the second largest amount since 96.
		They rose by 3.4%, effectively wiping out most of the gains that we had made.
		So we are not leading the world in emissions decreasing anymore.
		On the day that he said it, it is not happening.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Ironic in some ways.
		Yeah.
		Timing-based ironies.
unidentified		Right?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		If he had gone on the show last year, he would have been fine.
		He would have been technically correct.
		Now, here's a weird one.
		I like this one quite a bit.
		This is very funny to me.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Someone proposes a UN climate treaty or the solution to global warming.
		It's almost always central planning, massive government regulation.
		Europeans aren't opposed to that.
		So they don't even bother to challenge the science or look at the reason why it's being forced on them.
		In the United States, we say, wait a minute, what?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Trying to track that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't look it up.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It needs a citation.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Try and go.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		In America, we're like, wait, what?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Europeans are more into central planning and regulation.
		Therefore, they don't question science.
		Right.
		I don't see the relation.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't seem like they're related.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, I think you might have a problem with that construction.
		Seems like the conclusion doesn't follow.
		I would guess that if he's trying to say that, then you could use that argument for everything.
		You don't even have to, like, because, you know, take science out of the conclusion and just be like, Europeans are more into central planning and regulation, therefore they make more balloons.
unidentified		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's an omnipurpose.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's constructed to me the same way that that 90s deaf comedy jam is.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You know, that like, Europeans be like this.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But the United States, we're like this.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, has he not heard of Lord Monckton?
		Leading climate denial guy, Lord Monckton.
		Lord Monckton fucking parachuted into a UN thing just to cause a big publicity stunt.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, he did that once before when he was D.B. Cooper.
		Sure.
		That was his.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Rudolph Hess.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All the famous parachuters.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But he doesn't have any military service under his belt, so he's not a paratrooper, unfortunately.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But, Dan, let me ask you a question.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		How is it that we lead the world in reducing CO2 emissions?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fictitiously.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I heard Mark say it.
unidentified		So he's got a specific.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I don't know.
		I'm excited to learn.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		It's through technology and innovation and chiefly through fracking.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's how we lead?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Chiefly through fracking.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Which seems counterintuitive.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't it?
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm interested to see how he threads this needle.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He doesn't.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He said that and then never mentioned it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It goes unchallenged.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Never mentioning it.
		Varney is like, yeah, of course.
		Technology is great.
		And fracking.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Technology, sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Possibly that's a good argument.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		100%.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		When your next thing is fracking as being like leading.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's where we get into trouble, right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Seems like you need, again, need a citation on that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		As far as citations go, though, I have a paper.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I am a leader in the world of medicine because I have drawn the most blood from people.
		Yeah, that makes sense.
		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I like it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		In a paper by Robert Howarth from Cornell University, he does not believe that fracking improves our environment.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He will, he says, quote, the commercialization of shale, gas, and oil in the 21st century has dramatically increased global methane emissions.
		This is fracking.
		He continues on, shale gas production in North America over the past decade may have contributed more than half of all the increased methane emissions from fossil fuels globally and approximately one-third of the total increased emissions from all sources globally over the past decade.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's pretty universally what I've heard and seen from anything I've looked into.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I've not heard anybody say that fracking is great.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
		No one.
		Absolutely no one.
unidentified		Wow.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Except for Mark Moreno, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I guess there are certain people who are on payrolls and shit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		People who have the best.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like Mark Moreno, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I've covered previously Climate Depot, all of that shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But that is absolutely and utterly disqualifying.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		To pretend to even, like, even if he mistakenly said it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We are leading the world in protecting the climate, and I know that because of all the trash we burn.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We have tire fires.
		All right.
		That is how we are protecting the ozone layer.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And the EU wouldn't even challenge a tire fire.
		We're all here.
		We're all like, wait, what?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The EU is into central planning and regulations.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Therefore, they just go along with not burning tires.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And a tire doesn't even have a center.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So there we go.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Case close.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They don't use them there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that does seem troubling to me.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, fracking does not help.
		And not even not help.
		It is utterly, utterly destructive.
		And that's just the emissions part.
		Talk about pollution, the fucking destruction of the earth.
		Like, you name it.
		Fracking is one of the single worst things that human beings have ever even fucking invented.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And same is true of like the coal sand stuff too.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know, that anybody who presents that as being like a good alternative kind of thing is like, well, no, no, no, hold on.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All information has shown that that's worse.
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		Yep.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The processing of it to make it usable is heavily polluting.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Ma'am.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		If there was even, and even if there was some sort of like net offset, like even then, if it was just like this tiniest little bit of, yeah, it destroys the earth, but it's 1% better when you factor in all that shit.
		It's like, no, it is absolutely not worth it.
		And there's nothing that anybody has ever shown to be an improvement.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But that's an interesting thing.
		If it were, people would be for it, probably.
		Like, if these alternatives, like, anybody who's into climate change activism or whatever, if one of these solutions actually did, like, let's say, cut down 15% or something of emissions and it profited oil companies, they would still be for it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They would not be paying Mark Moreno a shit ton of money to lie about it on TV.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They wouldn't need to.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But again, Dan, one of our biggest issues is the children.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is, I mean, yes, obviously they are mercilessly mocking and being mean to a 16-year-old woman.
		Spork!
		But what it really is about is how much they care about protecting the children.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It is always about the children.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		God bless the child.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Difference.
		These kids are testifying before Congress saying they have no future unless we can essentially kill the market economy in the United States and impose a central plan on us.
		That's what they're testifying.
stuart varney ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that really got to me.
		The children.
		They are very young kids who are making these grandiose statements.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
stuart varney ▲ ● ▼		Words put into their mouths by adults.
stuart varney ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
greta thunberg ▲ ● ▼		To have a 67% chance of staying below 1.5 degrees of global temperature rise.
		The best odds given by the IPCC, the world had 420 gigatons of CO2 left to emit back on January 1st, 2018.
		Today, that figure is already down to less than 350 gigatons.
		There will not be any solutions or plans presented in line with these figures here today because these numbers are too uncomfortable and you are still not mature enough to tell it like it is.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I could see how an adult wouldn't like to hear that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Uh-huh.
		I put those two juxtaposed for, I think, a very obvious reason, right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		Yeah.
		But that really got to Varney.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It got to him.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he doesn't like it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He doesn't like the idea that these children are basically pointing out that you're a bunch of fucking children.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		And I think it would be probably a good time to point out that there are not just, it's not just Greta.
		There are other youth activists that maybe aren't getting as much attention as her that also deserve a good bit of like a shout out, a tip of the cap.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, absolutely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Every one of these climate marches and every one of them across the world wasn't organized personally by Greta.
unidentified		No.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Every single one of them.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		She's the one that all this attention and vitriol and praise is being directed at, whereas there are many more people who are coming out and being very active in this.
		And not just climate change, you know, across the board in terms of social causes.
		There are a lot more people who are of that generation that probably deserve a higher profile.
		And shout out to them.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I didn't prepare for this episode, and I can't remember anybody off the top of my head because everybody's talking about Greta.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me read you from the very mental health manual that I gave you some tips from earlier.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And I think that will be a little illuminating as to why it is that they're talking the way that they are and how they're you mean the children or no Varney and Moreno.
		Quote, in some cases, information that increases perceptions of the reality of climate change may feel so frightening that it leads to denial and thus a reduction in concern and support for action.
		This is a study by McDonald at AL in 2015.
		In addition, communicating scientific information is not easy.
		This complexity itself may be a problem.
		One study showed that people who received more complex information on environmental problems felt more helpless and more inclined to leave the problem to the government.
		And those who felt ignorant about the topic were more likely to want to avoid hearing about more negative information.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Now, that is exactly why they are talking the way that they are about all of this shit.
		They are making sure that people are ignorant.
		Exactly.
		Exactly.
		Because the more, and also they're trying to push denial because the more helpless and more inclined, the more helpless you feel, how real you feel about climate change.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The more likely you are to be in favor of regulation and government involvement.
unidentified		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And their stated life's goal is no government.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		Business.
		And then, of course, they keep their audience ignorant about the topic, so they don't want to hear any more negative information about it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They want to hear America is leading the world in CO2 reduction, and America is doing all this good stuff.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Here's my warm carbon blanket.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		Yeah.
		And they know it.
		And Mark Moreno knows it.
		And everybody who books him on these shows knows that's what he is going to do for you.
		He is a fucking slimy hack asshole.
		I hate him so much.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Let's hope that this episode gets him to tweet at me?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I was just thinking, like, I almost hate him as much as Friedersdorf.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you got to mix it up with this guy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I just, oh, God.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But still further, this, like, how many times has he been brazen in his complete assholery?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		On this episode?
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		A few.
unidentified		A few?
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Very obvious, very miserable in his fucking non-stop, like, pitter-patter of.
		And I cut the clips short, so they're not as long as the ones that you normally cut, mainly because he speaks in these 40-second chunks.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, I mean, it's a structural difference.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, this is an interview, or he's on a conversation on Fox and Friends.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Whereas Alex is doing long-form rambling.
		It's definitely just a function of the source material.
		Yeah.
		These are obviously going to be shorter blurbs.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I could have put the whole 30-second clip, but he's just such a unlike Alex, where it's like he's got those rolling crescendos, and then he gives you a break and then rolling crescendo and does this whole like musical thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Moreno is just rapid fire, monotone, just like, before you even have a thought, I'm on to the next thought.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, because I think probably part of that is he wants you to think he sounds super credible through the quick monotone.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's like a Ben Shapiro-ish strategy of like fast, which makes it sound like I know all these things.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And monotone, sort of flat delivery, making you think that I'm unemotionally delivering this information to you.
		It's just a different presentation style.
		Not nearly as fun as a lunatic.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, it is not.
		It is not.
		It's a lot dumber.
		But this one's brutal.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		It's said they had a die-in for the kids.
		Greta Thunberg, the Swedish girl, went to the White House.
		I was at the event where she spoke.
		They had kids lying down at the White House gates for 11 minutes to symbolize 11 years until the planet's dead, unless government saves it and tries to legislate storms and weather.
unidentified		This is the guy who six hours earlier in the day said she needs to do something fucking challenging.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if a die-in is challenging.
		You just lay there.
		Fair.
unidentified		Fine, fine.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And this is coming from someone who accompanied his parents to a die-in to protest the Iraq war when I was a younger guy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fair.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But any kind of argument that that's going to traumatize and scare these kids, I'm here to say the opposite.
		I did that when I was younger, vis-à-vis the Iraq war.
		Maybe I was like 19 or 20 at the time, though.
		So it's a little bit older, but not that much older.
		And I didn't have any kind of feeling of it of like, you know, this is so terror-inducing in my own life that I can't function.
		It was like, this is an expression of how severe this reality is that we're against.
		So I don't know.
		I don't find this to be compelling.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is an old man assuming the children don't have cognitive abilities.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Saying the same shit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Not children, youths.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or whatever.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because it's different if Greta was five.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've already had a five-year-old in this show saying correct things.
		So there you go.
		I don't know.
		I will say this.
		We do not, and neither does anybody else.
		And if anybody has Mark Moreno anywhere near them, it is completely invalidating.
		And this one, this is from something that Greta said, which I find incredibly hopeful.
		And we'll see how it goes on the other side.
greta thunberg ▲ ● ▼		You say you hear us and that you understand the urgency.
		But no matter how sad and angry I am, I do not want to believe that.
		Because if you really understood the situation and still kept on failing to act, then you would be evil.
		And that I refuse to believe.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She refuses to believe that they are evil, but I will tell you something.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Mark Moreno is fucking evil.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		She wasn't talking to Mark Moreno, though, to be fair.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know, but I'm making it very clear that this is the one thing I disagree with her on.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But again, she's not talking about or to him.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know, and I'm still talking in this regard as well at the UN.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I am also disagreeing with her there.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		I guess that's interesting.
		I'm not 100% sure where I land on that, but I respect your opinion.
		I'm on the fence a little bit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		In terms of calling all the world leaders evil.
		I'm not on the fence in terms of your assessment of Moreno.
		Well, of course.
		Or Lord Monckton.
		I don't know.
		I feel like there's so many other factors to consider for a lot of world leaders that I don't know where their heads are.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, I will tell you that their heads are not in the most recent IPCC report.
		I went through that and read it because it was like, it's like a big deal, and it's very long, and most people didn't actually read it.
		All of the articles and stuff I read about it from wherever, The Guardian or anything along those lines, they were all kind of in this middle ground.
		And this is something that I find to be very, very frustrating.
		You know that I have said to you many times in the past where I suspect that scientists have always been, climate scientists especially, have always been downplaying the actual severity of the situation.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		For everyone listening, you said it to me so many times.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So many times.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Health air, socially.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Incessantly, some might say.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a lot.
		I thought that was a suspicion.
		I thought that that was something that I thought.
		However, from a study by BICE at Alfram 2013, quote, over the past two decades, skeptics of the reality and significance of anthropogenic climate change have frequently accused climate scientists of alarmism, of over-interpreting or overreacting to evidence that human impacts exist.
		However, the available evidence suggests that scientists have, in fact, been conservative in their projections of the impacts of climate change.
		We suggest, therefore, that scientists are biased not towards alarmism, but rather the reverse, toward cautious estimates.
		There is even a term they have for it.
		They call it erring on the side of least drama.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right, but I still don't think this proves your conjecture that they're intentionally underplaying things.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, no, no.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I mean downplaying it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I still don't think.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They're not manipulating the data.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I honestly don't think that that still proves the stuff that you always tell me.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like what?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That they're like lowballing.
		Like conservative estimates are low-balling.
		right but the underplaying the severity yeah Yes.
		Right.
		I still don't think that that matches with your suspicions.
unidentified		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Conservative estimates versus extreme estimates.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I understand.
		Okay.
		What I'm more talking about is the way that they present it.
		Right.
		Not the data or anything like that.
		Because here is some of the data in the IPCC, this report.
		And this is all based on data that goes up to 2015.
		It does not include 2016 to present day because we can't, you know, obviously you can't put together all that shit.
		In the report, our best case scenario from the Paris Agreement is to keep warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius.
		And the report, it says, no matter what, even if we reach 1.5 degrees Celsius as our ceiling, warm water coral is gone.
		It's just gone.
		There's nothing we can do unless we go well below 1.5 degrees.
		That is not something that was in any of the reports that I read.
		Any of the articles I read, none of them said, no matter what, we're losing coral.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		To be fair, when's the last time you engaged with corals?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fair enough.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You ever go to a reef?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, I've never gone to a reef.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I have.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Have you?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, I lived in a reference.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Pretty amazing, yeah, right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Beautiful.
		Big ecosystems.
		Yeah, exactly, right?
		All of this stuff.
		Now, what it doesn't include is, like I said, the past three or four years.
		And one of the issues with that is they have a couple of different projections going on in the reports.
		They have the ones where we reduce and stay below 1.5 degrees.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Very, very unlikely.
		They have the ones where we don't do anything and they just measure what it would be like if we stayed at the same rate.
		What they don't have is what it would be like if we continued fucking up more.
		They couldn't imagine a scenario where it was like not only did we not just stay the same, but we increased our carbon emissions.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like Alex advocates.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		That is what is currently going on.
		This idea, that idea of like 11 years, we have 11 years from now to adjust our actions and all of that stuff in certain ways.
		That is not accurate anymore.
		We don't have 11 years.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because it's from the data that ends in 2015.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So whatever we'd be talking about, we should have been talking about in 2015.
unidentified		You got it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Whereas there's been four years since then.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And it changes.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not just that, but that number is not, as I've said so many times, it is a geometric progression.
		Two years of active damage doesn't take us from 11 years left to nine years left.
		I can't tell you, you know, and even then, the projections aren't like, this is exactly accurate.
		It's like the 538 election projections, you know, where it's like we give Democrats a 75% chance to take back the House and Republicans a 25% chance to keep it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That kind of thing.
		The same thing is true with these climate reports.
		They can say we have a, you know, what they're telling us is there's a 60% chance that we have 11 years to do all of this shit.
		They don't say there's a 40% chance that we're already past, you know, it's not 40%, but there is a significant chance that we're already past the mark and that there's nothing that can be done to keep us below one, to keep us at 1.5 and below two.
		So it's really kind of a frustrating thing that this is a fucking seriously dangerous and scary report.
		And it is amazing to me that it went by in like one day.
		There was this news cycle of this report that was like one day.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It is amazing to me.
		One of the things that I love in the report about governments and how they're going to act on climate change.
		So there is no single climate governance panacea for the ocean, coasts, and cryosphere.
		Empirical evidence on which governments arrangements work well in which contexts is still limited, but good governance scare quotes norms indicate the importance of inclusivity, fairness, deliberation, reflexivity, responsiveness, social learning, the co-production of knowledge, and respect for ethnic and cultural diversity.
		And the reason I like that in there is because that means they have some eco-fascists that they were talking to who are like, what if instead we had one guy do everything?
		And they were like, no, no, no, no, we got to make sure that the report doesn't, because there are some people who would read that IPCC report and go like, democracy has failed us, that kind of thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So they specifically went out of their way to be like, we don't want anybody to fucking.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I know you may think it's a good idea and you're like, yeah, because these sorts of things could be very dangerously used under the wrong hands.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		And here's another great piece of news.
		Today, just today, Dan, October 3rd, I don't even know what day it is.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		A report was released from The Guardian.
		Trump's attacks on science are at a crisis point, basically.
		He denies climate science.
		He's banned the EPA from presenting research on climate sciences.
		He's barred the National Park Service from putting climate change in any of their proposals.
		And he's actively published a misleading environmental review to allow mining in to allow a mine in Alaska.
		They have punished anybody who speaks out or points out how much bullshit science that they're trying to push.
		But the thing that's weird to me, or not weird, but it's the Department of Agriculture actually moved economists across the country when they published analysis of how fucked farmers were under Trump's proposals.
		The Interior Department reassigned a climate scientist to an accounting role after he just pointed out that climate change will be bad.
		And just for the win, they suppressed a report showing that toxic substances in several states' water supplies will absolutely fuck you up at far lower levels than what are currently allowed.
		They actively.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's the abstract of it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		A little bit of this will fuck you up.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		Basically.
		And this kind of shit has been done by all of the, by everybody since GW or HW.
		All of this shit is absolutely devastating.
		And guys like Mark Moreno fucking make everything so much worse.
		They facilitate all of this, and you never, ever need to listen to this hack.
		If his name comes up, just fucking go away.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's really your thesis here.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's my thesis.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You do not need to listen to this guy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Ever, ever again.
		If we're going to do a reverse knowledge fight, we talk about the same guy over and over and over again.
		So if I'm going to do it, I'm going to talk about a guy we never speak of again.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And I think Mark can explain why.
marc morano ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand how people could fall for such base, cheap rhetoric and nonsense.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yep.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know, you hear that exact phenomenon from all these people so often is like them expressing exactly like, who would believe this bullshit?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That was also from 2014, by the way.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a bummer.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What are your thoughts on that?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I mean, Mark Moreno sucks.
		I don't know what other thoughts to have.
		I don't know this subject matter nearly as well as you do.
		This is something you're singularly focused on in the same way that I am, like, I don't know, anti-communist propaganda.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So it's a little overwhelming, you know, to have a lot of that.
unidentified		You're fucking telling me.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I don't know.
		It's tough to sit on this side of the table.
		I don't know.
		I'm not geared to respond to things, I guess.
		It's a challenge.
		But it's, I mean, you know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I think you did a good job.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
		You as well.
		It's interesting.
		I went into this thinking Mark Moreno sucked, and now I come out thinking similar things.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And now I know that you really admire Greta.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I really admire Greta.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I think she is a fucking hero.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Cool.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Dan.
		Yes.
		I know this was a little bit of a depressing ending.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's a little bit.
		It's a little bit of a bummer.
		And I don't want to leave people with a sense of gloom, you know?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Which, I mean, I think you might have.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
		Yeah.
		No, it's not that it's gloom.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's a little bit of gloom to it because in the way that people like Mark Moreno attack Greta, you know, they're going to create anxiety and fear in people.
		The reason that that isn't, that doesn't ring true to me is because there are so many solutions.
		I worry that the way you frame this does lead to anxiety and fear.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because of the contentions that the climate scientists and the IPCC report, they're underplaying the reality of this.
		They're underplaying the severity of this.
		It does lead to a possibility that the conclusion is there is nothing that can be done.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And then we reach nihilism.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I respect that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We reach sort of a fatalistic, we're fucked no matter what we do kind of state.
		And I know that that's not your message.
		And I know that that's not what you believe, that we shouldn't do anything because we're already fucked.
		But it would be easy to come away from if we were not super clear, it would be easy to get that impression.
		And I never want to give that message.
		Right.
		Because even if that's true, I don't, it's not.
		But even if that perception were true, it's an irresponsible thing to preach to people.
unidentified		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, here is why I did that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And it's mainly because of the mental health summary that was there, which stated that the more people know about it, the more they understand what it is, the more likely they are to accept that government does need to make the action.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I understand that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You know what I'm saying?
		But look at all these climate protests and all this shit.
		We don't just need to protest.
unidentified		We need to get these people fucking gone.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Everything out of office and get new people in who are responsive and understand the situation.
		I think that there's something to be said for enlightening people about realities and pollution and its effects and the anthropomorphic.
		Wrong word.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Anthropogenic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Hello, I'm climate change.
unidentified		I'm coming for your children.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the human-caused aspects of this and the things that you can do and the things that we should do.
		I think that that awareness and people being more read up on those aspects lead people to what that mental health report is talking about.
		That is realizing that the government needs to do more.
		Speculating that there's nothing that we can do and that everything is way underselling it.
		That I think has what leads people to recognizing that the government needs to do more and regulation is probably necessary.
		That could probably lead to people having a crippling inability to act.
		And I'm not saying that you're doing that.
		I'm just saying that part of that, while I do agree that it is important to stress to folks that this is not business as usual, there is a crisis going on.
		I think viewing it in a no matter what happens, we're fucked sense, I think it's detrimental and it doesn't lead to the effects that that mental health report would.
		And again, I'm not saying that that's what you're doing.
		Yeah.
		I just want to fight back against any kind of gloom that folk might have and that I might even be feeling a tiny bit towards the end of this episode.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Well, I suppose the main thing that I suppose the main thing that I want is for people to realize that this is not a fucking future thing.
		This is serious right now.
		Right.
		And that's why I get so angry when I read an article in whatever where it's like, the IPCC shows very bad reports for the climate.
		It's like, no, this is now.
		This is, we got to fucking do this shit.
		We got to do something.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And one of the biggest things is we've been doing this whole like, well, we need to get people to direct action.
		And, you know, if we don't do this by 12 years from now, it's going to be really troublesome.
		If we don't do this, you know, and then 10 years ago is where the effects of this are going to be in 2050.
		That's pretty soon.
		That's going to be in your lifetime.
		I mean, I can't help but think we need to be fucking chicken littling.
		We need to be screaming to people, the sky is falling, and you got to do shit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I get you.
		And I think there's a balancing act to it, which is one of the most difficult things about it, because there is the immediacy, especially when you consider the experience of the people in India whose crops are being destroyed, or the people in places that are experiencing drought, or the people of the sea ice.
		You know, like it is an immediate thing for a lot of people, and we are in a slightly privileged position that we can look at it abstractly.
		And so cutting through that to make it an immediate issue is important.
		At the same time, finding a way to do that without the fatalistic doom part, I think is the part that's essential.
		And I think that that's what is so threatening about people like Greta and these other younger climate activists, is I think that they're effectively able to do that.
		They're effectively able to walk that balance of this is severely important right now, and this is what we need to do right now.
		Right.
		Without falling into traps of hopelessness and gloom.
unidentified		I suppose I mean, yeah, I have always really.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Chicken littling is not necessary to make something immediate.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		I mean, I suppose my issue also was the people who were clapping when Greta spoke.
		You know, that always gets to me, man.
		Sure, I mean, because what are you clapping for?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They might not understand what she's saying, or they might think that they're cool.
		You know, like there's a hundred reasons why.
		And it wasn't like the whole audience clapped.
		No, I could tell it was like.
		It was very specific.
		It was a sporadic applause.
		Or maybe a lot of that applause was people who were with her in her group.
		You don't know who was clapping.
unidentified		Sure, sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You can read into it a lot of different things.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You are right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Worst case scenario, it's delusional people who don't understand what she's saying.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Best case scenario, it's her cheering section who was along for the speech.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's a lot of, I don't know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of assumptions that could be made.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely right on that.
		It's just so.
		And you're absolutely right that she can thread the needle in a way that, again, there's a reason she's absolutely a hero of mine.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And that's what makes her so threatening.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because if it was me, you wouldn't be an effective messenger for this.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Probably not.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Probably not.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, on a grander stage.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I would have gotten to tell them and Connor Friedersdorf that they're big dum-dums, though.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And that would have been very satisfying.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That is true.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Emotionally speaking, there's a lot to be said.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There's no doom and gloom when you get to tell the United Nations that they are.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Threatening to cut the U.S. kickoff or something.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		That would be fun.
		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, I mean, I guess I think that, you know, you just have to treat it like you're saying, an immediate right now kind of situation.
		But you also have to look at actionable items.
		You have to look at productive solutions as opposed to succumbing to ideas that there's nothing you can do and refuck.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's such a balance, and it's very difficult.
		And it's one of the things that I'm not actually very good at.
		I can see that that is important, that balance.
		And if you want a path forward, that's a balance you have to have.
		But I do not know what the answer is.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, one thing I suggest to everybody just to spite Mark Moreno is never use single-use utensils ever.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Take a fork.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Take my turkey bacon.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Take your fuck.
		Honestly, take a fork with you.
		I'm not joking.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That would go a long way.
		That would go a long fucking way because single-use utensils are one of the hugest and largest contributing factors to all of the plastic pollution that's going on.
		And all you have to do right now is never use that fucking.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're trying to put those good Americans at the spork factory out of a job?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Or bring the sparks in just to spite that piece of shit, Mark Moreno.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's what I would recommend.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And that's an okay emotion.
		Spite is okay.
		Spite is okay.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I get spite.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Doom and fatalist.
		There's nothing you can do.
		That's negative.
		Spite, against Mark Moreno, at least.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Perfectly healthy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Bring your own utensil.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I mean it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I think we have a website, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We do.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We do.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And we're on Twitter.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, knowledge underscore fight and at GoToBed Jordan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Also, we are on Facebook.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You can also find us on iTunes and various other places where you can blah, blah, blah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I suppose that makes me...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What am I?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm not...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm not DZX Fox.
		Oh, I will tell you who I am.
		I am fucking Mako Shock Rampant.
		That's who I am.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Andy in Kansas.
		You're on the air.
		Thanks for holding.
unidentified		Hello, Alex.
		I'm a first-time caller.
		I'm a huge fan.
		I love your work.

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