All Episodes
May 1, 2019 - Knowledge Fight
01:54:37
#291: Feline Contessas And Canine Capitalists

Today, Dan and Jordan take a Wacky Wednesday break from talking about Alex Jones to take a little look into some chaos in Project Camelot land. Sweary Kerry has been pretty mad lately about a British guy who is making a documentary about how her friend Mark Richards is not a space captain (which he is not), but actually a murderer (which he is). As professional Mark Richards analysts, the gents decide that they need to know a little more about this situation, so they dig in and see what's up.

Participants
Main voices
d
dan friesen
01:10:05
j
joanne richards
07:30
j
jordan holmes
20:36
k
kevin moore
07:27
Appearances
k
kerry cassidy
02:32
Clips
a
alex jones
00:09
p
pastor david manning
00:02
| Copy link to current segment

Speaker Time Text
alex jones
Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
dan friesen
Thanks for holding.
unidentified
Hello, Alex.
jordan holmes
I'm a first-time caller.
joanne richards
I'm a huge fan.
unidentified
I love your work.
I love you.
dan friesen
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.
I'm Dan.
jordan holmes
I'm Jordan.
dan friesen
We're a couple dudes like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk about Alex Jones.
jordan holmes
Oh, indeed we are, Dan.
dan friesen
Jordan.
Jordan.
jordan holmes
Who's your favorite movie monster?
dan friesen
Favorite movie monster?
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
I don't like any of them.
jordan holmes
You don't like any of them?
dan friesen
I don't like scary movies, but also those...
If you're talking about, like, the Wolfman and that shit.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes
Maybe classic Universal Monsters.
dan friesen
I didn't like any of them.
jordan holmes
You didn't like any of them.
dan friesen
No, but I did like the song The Monster Mash.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
And look, man, I was...
jordan holmes
How about...
dan friesen
I knew...
I want to talk about my...
I want to talk about something real quick.
jordan holmes
Okay, and you knew my question wasn't going to get you there.
dan friesen
No.
I knew about all of Boris Pickett's other songs, like the Monster Swim, and the sequel to the Monster Mash, and the Climate Mash.
jordan holmes
He did the Climate Mash?
dan friesen
He did, yeah.
Okay.
It's about climate change.
jordan holmes
Oh, okay.
I was going to say, if he did that all the way back, whenever the Monster Mash was relevant.
dan friesen
The Monster Rap.
jordan holmes
The Monster Rep, that was great.
dan friesen
I knew about these a long time ago before everyone else started making jokes about what kind of credibility am I trying to gain here?
jordan holmes
I was going to say, you're...
dan friesen
I don't feel like I can talk about my love of the idea that he just kept making those songs.
I like it.
Because now it's kind of like...
Other people have pointed that out.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
It's not a novel observation for me, and that's pretty much my relationship with monsters.
jordan holmes
That's your only reel.
That's the tangent.
dan friesen
When you asked me who's your favorite classic movie monster, that's what came to my mind.
I wish I could complain about the Monster Mash and the sequels and all that shit, but I can't.
jordan holmes
Well, there we go.
We did learn something interesting about you, though.
dan friesen
One time for a live show, I wrote...
It was a holiday show, and I wrote a remake of The Monster Mash about false flags, which is relevant to our show.
jordan holmes
Yep.
How did that go?
dan friesen
I don't remember.
I don't remember exactly, but it was like...
jordan holmes
It was a false flag!
dan friesen
Anyway, this is a podcast where I know a lot about Alex Jones.
jordan holmes
And a lot about the Monster Mash.
dan friesen
And song parodies.
And Boris Pickett.
jordan holmes
And Boris Pickett.
Wilson Pickett's long lost brother.
dan friesen
Incorrect.
jordan holmes
Sounds right.
And I only know what you tell me about both.
dan friesen
That's correct.
Jordan, today we've got an interesting Wacky Wednesday episode to go over.
jordan holmes
All right, all right.
dan friesen
But before we get to any of that, which will be a humdinger, as I told you twice over text.
jordan holmes
You received two texts regarding the humdingerousness of this.
dan friesen
Humdinger.
I don't think that I can oversell things by saying humdinger a bunch of times.
jordan holmes
No.
dan friesen
But I'm going to try.
It's going to be a humdinger.
jordan holmes
It's going to be a humdinger.
dan friesen
Something else that is a humdinger is how great I feel about our very generous, wonderful audience and some people who've supported the show.
We've got to send them out some thank yous.
jordan holmes
Absolutely.
dan friesen
So first of all, Corey, thank you so much.
You're now a policy wonk.
unidentified
I'm a policy wonk.
dan friesen
Thank you, Corey.
jordan holmes
Thanks, Corey.
dan friesen
Next, Jared, thank you so much.
You are now a policy wonk.
unidentified
I'm a policy wonk.
dan friesen
Thank you, Jerry.
jordan holmes
Thank you, Jerry.
dan friesen
Next, Papercraft B. Thank you so much.
You are now a policy wonk.
unidentified
I'm a policy wonk.
dan friesen
Thank you, Papercraft.
Thanks, Papercraft B. What about Papercraft A?
Not getting any donations from Papercraft A. Oh, he died now.
Papercraft B, get in touch with Papercraft A. This is his son.
Oh.
jordan holmes
He's carrying on the great Papercraft name.
dan friesen
In that case, we apologize for your loss.
jordan holmes
We honor your father's service.
dan friesen
Next, The Postman.
Thank you so much.
You're now a policy wonk.
unidentified
I'm a policy wonk.
dan friesen
Thank you so much, The Postman.
unidentified
Thank you.
dan friesen
What about Il Postino?
Is this Karl Malone?
These are my two questions.
jordan holmes
All right.
unidentified
Oh, I was thinking it was, what's his name?
jordan holmes
From the movie, The Postman.
dan friesen
Il Postino?
jordan holmes
No, you remember.
Shit, he was also in Waterworld.
Kevin Costner.
It's Kevin Costner.
dan friesen
Tom Petty's also in that movie.
jordan holmes
Tom Petty's in The Postman?
dan friesen
Yeah.
Oh.
Also, finally, I'd like to say thank you to not Tom Petty, although much like Papercraft A, we mourn his loss.
Finally, I'd like to say thank you to someone who donated on an elevated level.
We appreciate it very much.
So, Amanda, thank you so much.
You are now a technocrat.
unidentified
I'm a policy wonk.
Four stars.
Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant.
pastor david manning
Someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop.
unidentified
Daddy Shark!
alex jones
Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent.
unidentified
He's a loser little titty baby.
I don't want to hate black people.
alex jones
I renounce Jesus Christ!
dan friesen
Thank you so much, Amanda.
jordan holmes
Thank you very much, Amanda.
dan friesen
If you're listening out there and you're thinking, I like this show, I'd like to support what these guys do, you can do that by going to our website, knowledgefight.com, clicking that button to support the show.
We would appreciate it.
jordan holmes
It would be kind.
dan friesen
Good news, bad news, Jordan.
jordan holmes
Good news, bad news.
dan friesen
About our goal.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
The goal is for me to get a tattoo.
jordan holmes
The tattoo has been hit.
dan friesen
We crossed that goal.
That's the good news.
jordan holmes
Good news?
dan friesen
You know what the bad news is?
jordan holmes
Every tattoo artist in the tri-state area has been randomly hit by measles.
dan friesen
So you've heard the bad news.
jordan holmes
I have heard the bad news.
dan friesen
That is not the bad news.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
A couple people have erased their donations, and we are now below the goal.
That's exactly like how my life goes.
That seems like such a perfect microcosm.
Like, ha ha!
All right.
But I can't hold that against people.
Everyone is so great.
I'm going to get this tattoo as soon as I can, no matter what.
I meant to do it this weekend, but the design wasn't finished.
But we will get to that, and we'll start sort of trying to figure out what the next goal is.
jordan holmes
Absolutely.
dan friesen
Maybe another documentary, if people are interested in that.
jordan holmes
Could be.
dan friesen
Or we might brainstorm some other thing.
Maybe a live show.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Maybe a couple live shows.
jordan holmes
Maybe a regional goal.
dan friesen
Maybe.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
We can't do that.
jordan holmes
I know.
Of course not.
That would be insane.
dan friesen
No, I mean we don't have the technology.
jordan holmes
Right!
That's what I'm saying!
dan friesen
Oh, okay.
So, Jordan, today we've got a Wacky Wednesday episode for you.
For you.
unidentified
Not for the audience.
jordan holmes
For you.
For me specifically.
dan friesen
And so what it is, is it's Project Camelot stuff.
unidentified
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
dan friesen
But it's not on.
Really.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
You know what?
This is...
One of the things that I value the most about doing Wacky Wednesdays, you know, being able to take a break from Alex Jones.
One of the big things is...
I believe that...
What I'm about to present in front of you is a literally insane string of things I learned about.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
I mentioned last week that we couldn't have a Wacky Wednesday because of something I was working on and still sort of looking at, and that is this.
jordan holmes
That is this.
dan friesen
Yes.
Are you ready?
jordan holmes
I've never been more in suspense as to whether or not this is truly a humdinger.
dan friesen
It's a humdinger.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
So on our last episode about Carrie Cassidy's adventures, pretending that convicted murderer Mark Richards, her adventure trying to pretend that he's actually a secret space program who's friends with raptor aliens, on that last time that we looked into that stuff, it came After watching the trailer for that documentary, my response was that it looked pretty amazing.
The story of Mark Richards is absolutely one that deserves more attention.
It has a true crime angle.
It has a sci-fi angle.
It has a love story.
You know, both with Mark and his wife and with Mark and the raptor princess.
unidentified
Yes.
dan friesen
Who's in space.
There's a lot of angles here.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes
And we haven't even gotten to Minerva.
dan friesen
No.
That's for the tech nerds.
For the hard sci-fi.
unidentified
Hard sci-fi.
dan friesen
This story has it all.
Really, it does.
So the idea of someone making a documentary about it, obviously, I'm like, fuck yes, let's do this.
I got very excited about the possibility that someone who had the funding to do it and was able to interview people involved in the murder that Mark committed, as well as delusional defenders like Carrie, I got really excited about that possibility, what we could possibly see come from this.
My tone was very positive about it.
And that was based pretty much entirely on the trailer, which showed damning testimony against Mark and hilarious moments where Carrie Cassidy tries to convince the filmmaker that Mark was off-planet when the murder happened and his friends with Raptors.
But the more I thought about it, the more something didn't quite sit right.
Who was this guy making this documentary?
jordan holmes
I was about to say, there's a very large butt coming, and I feel like we're going to find out that the guy who makes the documentary is even crazier than Mark Richards.
dan friesen
Well, I don't know anything about him.
Is he legit?
I mean, I realize that, like I said, I know nothing about this guy other than Carrie's accusation that he's a dildo salesman engaged in a hatchet job against Mark Richards at the behest of the Reptilian Cabal.
jordan holmes
If she's right on that one, we're in real trouble.
dan friesen
I don't think she is.
But I realize that's the extent of what I really knew about him, and that's not acceptable.
If there's anything I try to do on this podcast, it's to learn as much as I can, especially about the things that matter the least.
I don't know nearly enough about this British guy who's making this documentary about a subject that we've covered on our show pretty much since we started doing this show.
jordan holmes
Exhaustively.
dan friesen
So I set out to learn a little bit more about this guy.
This guy named Kevin Moore.
And that's what we're going to be talking about here today.
jordan holmes
Jesus.
He convinced three children to murder somebody.
He's mad at Mark Richards because he took his record away.
He only convinced one other guy to kill.
dan friesen
Come on, don't engage in flippant libel.
That's a dangerous game to be played.
jordan holmes
Apologies.
unidentified
Apologies.
dan friesen
If you take Kevin at his word, here is his rationale for why he decided to make a documentary about Mark Richards.
kevin moore
This is the first docu-series of its kind looking into frauds in the UFO and alternative communities that I represent as well.
jordan holmes
That doesn't sound true.
kevin moore
some of the damage that this does to the communities is not only is it damaging to credible researchers but it's also damaging to people's awakening you know when people are trying to explore the idea that you know there's a greater reality and when it's met with misinformation and disinformation you know I'm sensing red flags.
I've made it my calling right now, or part of my calling, to show the opposite side of some of these so-called whistleblowers.
dan friesen
You may see some indications of red flags, but I think that you're being a little bit overly capricious.
You're being a little bit overly judgmental based on what you assume is going to happen.
You have no reason.
jordan holmes
I'm just saying, I don't like the word awakening.
dan friesen
Right.
Well, but, I mean, that could mean a whole bunch of different things.
unidentified
Good.
dan friesen
If you take him at what he's saying, he's saying that there are credible researchers in the field, and people like Mark Richards, they are a disservice to those people who are actively searching.
Because, you know, I think that there are people who aren't crazy who are into aliens and stuff like that.
That absolutely exists in this wide old world.
So if you take him at, like, just boil down what he's saying to that crystalline center, I don't know.
It sounds like a pretty decent motivation for making a documentary.
So he reiterates it here in this next clip.
kevin moore
Why did I do it?
Well, it was just to try to give us some context in the stories that are out there.
Now there's...
Mark Richards is one story.
There are so many other stories.
How much disinformation do you think there is in the field?
dan friesen
So you get the sense that this is really how he's presenting the motivation that he has for embarking on this documentary about Mark Richards actually being a murderer and Carrie Cassidy and Joanne Richards being just these people who are full of shit and helping him, a murderer, push his story on the masses.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
So, is this fair?
Is this complete bullshit?
Only time will tell.
And, you know, a couple hours, you'll know.
You'll have a pretty good idea in a couple hours.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
So, Kevin Moore has a YouTube channel that's been active since October 19th, 2011, when he posted a teaser trailer for his forthcoming show called The Moore Show.
This was a show that he was trying to sell to people that was vaguely a spiritualist talk show on which he would interview writers and actors from the UK, as well as astronomers and political activists.
There's the appearance of this being a pretty normal show, but just with a slight undercurrent of New Age stuff.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
Which I am into.
Quite frankly.
jordan holmes
No, no, no.
dan friesen
As far as...
I'm not going to buy into everything you say, but that's a kind of entertainment that I can kind of get into.
Like non-aggressive New Age nonsense.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Non-threatening.
dan friesen
Yeah.
I can enjoy that for a little while while I'm bored.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
As his channel began, that seemed to be the path he was following.
He had an interview with Stanley Kubrick's grandson, who happens to now be a musician.
There were a few apparently plain interviews, but this pretty quickly turned into a conspiracy New Age theme show.
It became the clear focus of the show as he started to talk to Freemasons, people who called themselves color psychics.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
Well, I don't know what that means.
jordan holmes
I don't know what that means either.
dan friesen
It's something to do with the palate, I guess.
Sure, sure.
Talking to a bunch of folks who wanted to tell you how imminent UFO disclosure was.
It was right around the corner.
But all the while, straightforward musical acts would still make appearances, and he would have interviews with guests like David Prowse, who played Darth Vader, and Joe Frost from the show Super Nanny.
jordan holmes
That sounds fun!
dan friesen
Yeah, so he had some kernel of tethering to a normal show.
jordan holmes
We're getting a little British Joe Rogan.
dan friesen
Not nearly as aggro.
jordan holmes
No, yeah, yeah.
Well, of course not.
dan friesen
Interestingly, the tenth video he posted back in 2011 was an interview about America's collapsing economy with frequent Alex Jones guest and longtime contributor to the white nationalist-adjacent publication V-Dare, Paul Craig Roberts.
jordan holmes
Goddammit.
dan friesen
Possibly worse, or at least certainly more boring, Kevin also had an interview with Jerome Corsi a few years back.
So you can see that there's not just one point of similarity to the stuff we talk about.
There's overlaps here.
We're starting to seep through.
As time went on, you see a trend towards this new age and spiritualism stuff take complete center stage, becoming the primary topic of pretty much all of his videos that he released.
We're talking about constant interviews of psychics, astrologists, and past life regressionists.
Kevin landed interviews with the two big names in the field, David Icke, and on January 29, 2012, he posted an interview with Carrie Cassidy herself.
jordan holmes
I knew it!
dan friesen
It was mostly a softball interview about how Project Camelot was a portal for whistleblowers, and ultimately the content of that interview isn't nearly as interesting as the fact that it exists.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
So we're not going to listen to any of that.
But I will tell you, you can go ahead and go find it.
It's still on his YouTube channel, and he is in no way critical of her.
He doesn't push back against her sort of very nonsensical things that she says.
So also...
On June 10th, 2012, Kevin Moore released an interview with Jim Fetzer.
He hadn't written it yet, so maybe Kevin shouldn't be judged too harshly about this aspect, but in 2015, Fetzer would publish a book called No One Died at Sandy Hook.
It was a FEMA drill to promote gun control.
jordan holmes
Damn it.
dan friesen
So Kevin shouldn't be blamed for that because the book didn't exist at that point.
Sandy Hook hadn't even happened.
jordan holmes
Right, right, right, right.
dan friesen
But Kevin probably should be judged pretty harshly for not knowing that Jim Fetzer is a literal Holocaust denier.
But I guess that maybe that was an open question as to how public Fetzer was about his Nazi sympathy at this point in time.
jordan holmes
Okay, so there's a possibility here that this dude has renounced his previous life and is now making this documentary as almost a mea culpa.
As a way of saying, I believed all this stuff before and now I'm fighting back.
dan friesen
I love that you're thinking about ideas.
And that anything's possible.
All I'm saying, though, about Jim Fetzer and him having an interview with that dude, like, whatever kind of plausible deniability you might have about, like, a late 2012 interview with him, you don't have it anymore.
You should take that shit the fuck off your YouTube channel.
jordan holmes
Oh, yeah, that's a smart idea.
dan friesen
Because he goes around to give speeches that are Holocaust denial in nature.
unidentified
Right, right.
dan friesen
So I would say get rid of that.
jordan holmes
It's still great content.
You know, you need content these days.
dan friesen
It's not great content.
jordan holmes
It's all about content.
dan friesen
Though it appears that The Mower Show didn't work out as a TV talk show.
unidentified
It's a TV show.
dan friesen
It lived on as a platform where increasingly weird guests would appear and tell Kevin about how 9-11 was fake or how the color green is magical.
That sort of thing.
And it lives on YouTube now.
And I guess as a podcast, although I can't find it on iTunes.
I have no idea what the distribution strategy of this is.
jordan holmes
So wait, it actually was a TV show for a while.
dan friesen
It was on Sky 201 in the UK.
But I don't know how widely distributed a channel that is.
I think he had some sort of satellite channel that he was on.
jordan holmes
I think it's something like FXX, like that kind of thing.
dan friesen
Entirely possible.
jordan holmes
I guess you can find it.
dan friesen
But I think, from what I could tell, it was pretty short-lived in the UK as a late-night weirdo show.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
So now, here we are in the present day in 2019.
Kevin Moore has rebranded into a voice of skepticism and is making a documentary about how Mark Richards is a murderer who defrauded everyone into thinking he's a space captain.
He puts out frequent vlogs on his YouTube channel that often come off as a bit aggressive about how his documentary is going to undo all the damage that Carrie has done.
kevin moore
Still makes me wonder how people can believe this utter rubbish in our community, that Mark Richards is a captain even, and that he's...
He's in prison for being part of the secret space program.
I mean, it's fucking insane, but there you go.
It takes a documentary like this that I'm putting together to sort of bust that and show the opposing opinion.
And it's worth every minute of my time.
dan friesen
So, I would say that, like, you know...
Carrie's not really been taking the high road on this whole thing, and she's been talking a lot of shit about him on Project Camelot.
So I could kind of understand and excuse a little bit of that aggro tone that he has in that last clip about, like, you know, it's worth all the work, and I'm going to expose all this.
And similarly, this sort of exasperation, this aggro tone that comes through here when he's addressing her and Joanne Richards in this vlog that he released from April 19th, 2000.
unidentified
2009.
And Kerry and Joanne, if you're watching this thing, guys, this is what you should have done in the first place.
kevin moore
You should have looked into his case, gone to the Civic Center, dug out all the court records, gone and interviewed everyone that you could have found that knew Mark Richards, and you would have saved yourself so much embarrassment of making this guy your top whistleblower.
But don't worry, I'll do it I mean, it's pretty aggressive, but...
dan friesen
You kind of understand the idea that, you know, Carrie's been, like, she's been saying a lot of fucked up stuff about him.
jordan holmes
You said 2009.
That was from 2019, right?
dan friesen
But yes, that was 2019.
jordan holmes
That was 2019.
unidentified
That is, like, last week.
jordan holmes
Gotcha.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So, honestly, it makes...
A lot of sense why he'd be exasperated.
The way that Carrie's responding to him.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
She said that, like, really inept dumb-dumb to, like, look into his past and stuff.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
He just wrote that almost incomprehensible write-up about it.
But still, that's some form of, like, harassment.
You know, you kind of understand.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
For us, people completely detached from the reality of all this.
This is a funny story.
Carrie's being lied to by a crazy guy in prison who says he hangs out with raptors.
But for other people, this is real life.
Richard Baldwin was a real person who was murdered.
His family lost a loved one that day when Mark and Crossan Hoover killed him.
Mark and Crossan's families had to deal with the pain of a relative committing a murder and have had to carry and work through the stigma that comes along with that ever since.
As Kevin rightly points out in this clip from the introduction to the trailer for his documentary, what Carrie and Joanne do has a negative effect on the people most hurt by Mark's crime.
kevin moore
You know, I've met the only sole surviving member of the family, Susan Baldwin, who was devastated to know that Kerry and Joe are giving Mark the platform that they are for him to spew his misinformation.
dan friesen
That makes sense.
jordan holmes
Yeah!
dan friesen
After hearing something like that, you know what would be really funny?
It'd be kind of hilarious if, oh, I don't know, it turned out that on March 28th, 2015, Kevin Moore gave Joanne Richards a platform on his show to spread misinformation about the secret space program and her heroic husband, Captain Mark Richards.
Now, I should be clear, I'm not calling him Captain Mark Richards.
That's how Kevin Moore credits him.
jordan holmes
God damn it!
dan friesen
In the video that he put out, it's labeled Captain Mark Richards.
And that's even in the description of the video, Captain Mark Richards.
Which you heard him disparagingly say the idea these fucking idiots think he's a captain.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
He credited Mark Richards as a captain when he interviewed Joanne back in 2015.
jordan holmes
Of course.
Now...
That's why, like, a clip you played a little bit ago, he said, I don't know how these idiots in our community, and that was a big red flag for me there.
He's...
dan friesen
Hold on to those thoughts.
jordan holmes
He's, oh boy, this is, this is like...
Well, I mean, he's like, how can you believe raptors exist because their reptoids are the ones causing us problems?
dan friesen
Well, I mean, you could just take the in our community thing with him.
jordan holmes
As a general.
dan friesen
He does a show where he talks to New Age and spiritualist people, so he's in that community.
jordan holmes
Right, exactly.
dan friesen
Hold on to that thought.
So Kevin Moore is now working on a documentary about how Mark Richards is a murderer and people shouldn't be treating him like a legitimate source of information.
So I feel like maybe it's in our best interests to check in and see just how well he handled himself when he had the chance to either push back or accept the bullshit that Mark's wife was telling him when she was a guest on his show.
I think you could probably already guess that if you did a good job, this episode wouldn't be happening.
So strap it in and let's enjoy Kevin Moore being a complete fucking idiot while Joanne Richards lies to him about her murderer husband's space adventures.
This is pathetic.
So, here in this first clip, Kevin introduces Joanne as his guest for this episode.
kevin moore
Now, Joanne Richards is the wife of Navy Captain Mark Richards, who claims he was an officer involved in the Dulcy Battle, as well as very active in the Secret Space Program and U.S. Space Command.
dan friesen
So, right out of the gate, I'm going to give you a tiny bit of credit for saying he claims to be.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, that was good.
unidentified
Sure.
jordan holmes
Maybe this is just him, like, giving her the benefit of the doubt, you know?
dan friesen
I mean, that's the beginnings of, you know...
Yeah, I mean, it quickly falls apart in terms of his interview style.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Because in this next clip, Kevin wanted to start the interview that he had with Joanne talking about the actual murder.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
Because, I mean, it's kind of the elephant in the room.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
You've got to talk about it.
jordan holmes
You want to touch on the murder part.
dan friesen
Now, when you have somebody who may or may not be married to a murderer who's lying about being a murderer.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
And they have a vested interest in being like, he's not a murderer.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Okay.
Don't presume that he is or isn't a murderer in the question, because that is doing the work of the liar for them.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
When you are actually trying to elicit some sort of truth, don't establish the truth of the answer in advance.
jordan holmes
Excuse me.
Yes or no question.
Did he kill that guy?
dan friesen
This is a very strong indication that Kevin is either...
The worst person at his job, or he's actively participating in what Joanne wants to do here on this episode.
kevin moore
Tell me a bit about the background to the story, very briefly, of the murder that he was convicted for.
Because I believe as well that when the murder happened, he was aware on a mission.
jordan holmes
Oh, that's not good.
joanne richards
I believe so.
jordan holmes
Oh, that's really not good.
dan friesen
He, in the question...
jordan holmes
Did he just say that?
dan friesen
He, in the question, establishes that Mark was off-planet.
Now, all Joanne has to do is say, yes, I agree with that.
kevin moore
Of course.
dan friesen
As opposed to putting it on her to introduce the idea that he was off-planet.
He has done the heavy lifting for her.
This is a collaborative interview where Mark Richards didn't commit that murder is the goal.
unidentified
Oh boy.
dan friesen
Or is the end result that the audience is being walked towards.
Whether there's a goal or not, or you're just...
Blindly stumbling through this fucking interview.
jordan holmes
Yeah, I would give him...
I would say he's really bad at his job, because maybe what he meant to say was, I believe your story is that he wasn't even off-planet.
Maybe that was just a slip of the tongue.
He just missed those words.
dan friesen
I think when you're talking about stuff like this, you should be a little more careful.
jordan holmes
Yeah, probably.
Probably.
dan friesen
Especially when, a couple years later, you take the harsh turn that you do.
Against this very person who you're interviewing on your show, and tacitly, and implicitly agreeing with.
jordan holmes
Alright, so we both know the murder happened, and he wasn't around for it.
So tell me more about that.
unidentified
Exactly!
dan friesen
So...
Now that the premise is established that Kevin is completely open to the idea that he was off the planet during the murder, that allows Joanne to spin whatever narrative she wants about the murder.
And so what she does is get into a little bit of a lackadaisical libel about a murder victim.
joanne richards
So now then, to go to the murder, in 1982, a murder happened here.
Of a friend of his, one of his cover businesses for doing his military stuff was remodeling people's houses or whatever.
So he was doing a remodeling project at a friend's house, and the guy also had a business restoring antique cars.
What my husband didn't know at the time was that the guy was also filming child pornography in his house, and he was a drug dealer.
Bad dude.
And then these kids that worked for my husband, because my husband had a generous heart and had a habit of hiring basically juvenile delinquents, and these kids killed the guy.
And when they started getting in trouble or whatever, they just said my husband masterminded the whole thing.
dan friesen
So, without any evidence, he allows Joanne Richards to assert that the person who her husband was responsible for murdering was a child pornographer, and, you know, he kind of deserved it.
He was a bad guy.
jordan holmes
He was a bad dude.
dan friesen
Yeah, and it wasn't even Mark that did it, these kids.
jordan holmes
He was on planet.
Mark is a great guy.
dan friesen
He hired these juvenile delinquents, and because he's such a good guy and gave them so many chances, he introduced murder into his life, but it's not really that big a deal because the dude was a child pornographer anyway.
jordan holmes
Also, he had such a generous heart, he...
Hired child delinquents, and we all know that they commit murders all the time.
So it was probably just them.
They were delinquents.
dan friesen
He allows Joanne to say that, which is not backed up by any proof.
There is no proof that...
I mean, that's slander that she's committing against this guy.
unidentified
Yep.
dan friesen
Who is dead now.
And...
He doesn't say, "Hold on!
Child pornography?" Now, where...
jordan holmes
Did you see any child pornography?
joanne richards
Did there...
dan friesen
Is there police ever saying anything?
Is there anything in any of those police reports?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
Or is this just something that your liar husband is saying?
jordan holmes
So you're just saying that he was a child pornographer?
Uh...
unidentified
No, not just that.
jordan holmes
He was filming child pornography.
dan friesen
Right.
unidentified
He's a producer of it.
jordan holmes
Okay, great, great.
dan friesen
So, she's saying that about Baldwin, Richard Baldwin.
And...
At the same time, Kevin isn't asking any follow-up questions, so it's allowed to exist as part of the corpus of information that's being presented to his listeners, which makes me remember this clip from just a little bit ago.
kevin moore
I've met the only sole surviving member of the family, Susan Baldwin, who was devastated to know that Kerry and Joe are giving Mark the platform that they are.
dan friesen
Okay.
Wonder if you discussed your own behavior in that meeting that you had.
jordan holmes
I doubt it.
dan friesen
Wonder if you've made peace with that.
So, in this next clip, he just allows Joanne to lie even more about it.
And this is one of the examples of something that, like, any decent interviewer would just be like, what the fuck are you talking about?
joanne richards
They changed the date of death of the victim three times to make sure it was a time when Mark was in town.
dan friesen
What?
jordan holmes
Okay, um, can you...
Can you back that up in literally any way?
What?
Can they do that?
dan friesen
They changed the date of his death three times because Mark kept having alibis.
jordan holmes
So did they have to bring him back to life?
dan friesen
This is so stupid.
Like, if you read the transcript of the interview when Mark got arrested, like, they didn't need to adjust any alibis.
He had none.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
He was eating a sandwich with his parents or something like that.
One of his backup alibis.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
Bullshit.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes
Backup alibis are never a good sign anyways.
dan friesen
No, absolutely not.
So, in this next clip, Carrie discusses the...
Carrie.
unidentified
Joanne...
jordan holmes
Ah, slip of the tongue.
dan friesen
Joanne, in this next clip, discusses the idea that Mark was off-planet on a mission whenever this murder happened.
Now, if you pay close attention to the way she's talking, you might get the sense that Mark didn't even say that.
And a good interviewer...
Might ask a follow-up question about, like, what are you talking about?
jordan holmes
Okay, so now she's spinning bullshit on top of bullshit.
Who knows?
That could be.
joanne richards
He has alibis for the other days, and he might even have an alibi for the day he was off on a mission, but he now at least implies or will say I probably wasn't there.
dan friesen
That's not good.
jordan holmes
Probably wasn't there.
unidentified
But she also said he'll imply that he probably wasn't there.
dan friesen
That's when an interviewer worth their salt would be like, okay, I gotta go.
jordan holmes
Okay, so is there any reason why he would have to imply it as opposed to specifically stating that he was not there?
dan friesen
Well, someone might be listening.
joanne richards
Yeah.
dan friesen
Hold on, the clip goes on.
joanne richards
And I know he is trying to tell me, I was off doing something else, and I can go do that within an eight-hour span.
It's like, oh, really?
Okay.
He can't and won't tell me where he is or where he was or what he was doing or how he got there.
Okay.
But I firmly believe he was not in town the day that that murder happened.
kevin moore
Let's go.
Let's now just briefly summarize.
Some of the most amazing things that Mark has told you.
dan friesen
So, you understand that that is not a follow-up question?
That is, hey, what cool stuff has he said?
Because it's not saying, what are the amazing things he's told you?
Like, what are the...
Set me up for a t-ball here.
Set me up for something I can spike.
jordan holmes
What crazy stuff has he told you?
Is Hannity interviewing Trump right now?
Is that what's going on?
So every idea you've had is great, and everything you've told me is true.
So let's summarize what it is he's also got to say.
dan friesen
Right.
I mean, she said in that clip...
Basically, it just comes down to, I've chosen to believe that he didn't do this, and he can't tell me where he was or what he was up to or how he got anywhere, which I would argue, just speaking as myself, is the very definition of not having an alibi.
jordan holmes
Right, right, right.
dan friesen
But he's implied that he wasn't there, so I believe that.
And then Kevin, as the interview is just like, oh yeah, let's hear about space.
unidentified
Cool.
dan friesen
That's terrible.
That's awful.
jordan holmes
You sound great.
dan friesen
Yeah, I mean, that's a pathetic level of interviewing, of like...
jordan holmes
That's a pathetic level of base conversation.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
That's not even a...
dan friesen
I don't disagree.
jordan holmes
That's not a tete-a-tete.
That's not an exchange of ideas at all.
dan friesen
It's very bad.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
But he does ask one good question in this next clip, and that is he's trying to get to the core of, like, why is he coming out with this information now?
He's been in prison for quite a while.
What's the...
Why is he...
jordan holmes
Money for appeal.
dan friesen
Well, Joanne kind of accidentally reveals that, like, I mean, it's what we've talked about forever.
He's bored.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
joanne richards
Why now?
Because he thought maybe the first 10 years of prison there was still a chance of him getting out through legal channels.
He exhausted pretty much all his legal remedies.
And after 10, 15 years of prison, he was pretty tired of prison.
And so he decided, well, I'm just going to start writing this stuff and I'm just going to start sharing some of this information that can be leaked out there because, number one, people will think he's crazy so they won't believe him anyway.
And who's this little wife of his?
She must be crazy if she believes him.
dan friesen
Fair enough.
I mean, that's just like the exact version of the story you'd expect from her.
Right.
You know, the part of the truth piece of, like, he was bored in prison, so he started writing shit.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
It's just we look at it as he's, like, writing fantasy novels, and she's like, no, it's all real.
jordan holmes
Yeah, that is very much...
Well, he's exhausted all of his legal channels, so he's kind of made peace with he's going to be there forever, and he realizes that without that hope propelling him, his days are real long.
Real long.
The days are real long when you have no hope.
dan friesen
Yeah.
I don't think that that's an offensive thing that she's expressing.
But there's no pushback at all to be like, are you sure that he's not just writing Tolkien sci-fi here?
Fantasy books.
jordan holmes
Have you considered that he's fucking with you and you are also exploiting him for a cottage industry income?
dan friesen
That might be rude.
jordan holmes
Yeah, that might be rude.
dan friesen
As an interviewer, that might be a bit brusque.
jordan holmes
I'm just saying.
It is an open-air question.
dan friesen
I think a better question would be, are you sure that...
Have you seen somebody?
That might be rude, too.
So Joanne starts going off about how all these countries work together and aliens work together with all of our countries because there's the appearance of tension, but really behind the scenes everyone's working together like they did in the Cold War.
People were all working together behind the scenes, but they couldn't appear to be because of the Cold War.
I mean, it's a nonsensical idea, but this clip is important because listen to how Kevin is responding to her ideas.
There's a collaborative aspect to this.
He agrees with her and builds on points that she's making.
joanne richards
And when we were having the Cold War, most of these countries were actually working together when there was a common threat, even though they couldn't publicly say that.
But you had this agency that worked together and pulled in people from many different countries and different militaries working together against a common threat.
So, you know, they're all working together, but they all have to keep it secret.
Because they don't think the world in general can handle the truth.
kevin moore
No.
No, absolutely not.
joanne richards
And they still don't think so.
kevin moore
No, absolutely not.
And we'll get into some of the reasons why as well.
Because I think Mark sort of answers that in the story.
dan friesen
So that's endorsing.
Like, Mark's information explains why countries can't appear to get along, but actually are secretly working together.
jordan holmes
And also, he agrees with her in that we cannot handle the truth.
dan friesen
No.
unidentified
No.
dan friesen
Certainly not.
kevin moore
No, no, no.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
Was there a Code Red?
dan friesen
Mountain Dew?
jordan holmes
I don't know.
I don't know.
dan friesen
So, in this next clip...
Quick question.
jordan holmes
Is her only source, as far as what she's talking about...
Richards?
dan friesen
I bet that she's talked to some other weirdos since.
But I'm going to bet literally everything I own that if any of them contradict Mark, then they're out.
But I bet she talks to Simon Parks.
I bet that she gets some information from Carrie as well.
I'm sure there's some sort of brainstorming that goes on in their community or whatever.
So in this next clip, this is fun.
Because Joanne discusses how back in the day we didn't have a lot of MIBs.
We didn't have a lot of men in black.
unidentified
Uh-huh.
dan friesen
Right?
So people like Mark Richard's dad, the Dutchman.
jordan holmes
The Dutchman.
dan friesen
He was just a man of means, which he wasn't.
But he's being presented as a man of means.
jordan holmes
Yes.
dan friesen
You know, a rich guy of leisure.
unidentified
Yeah.
jordan holmes
Well, if I recall correctly, they...
We're hanging out with Winston Churchill when Captain Mark Richards was eight years old or whatever.
dan friesen
That might come up in this interview at some point.
I might not have cut out clips of it because it's weirdly too boring for me.
But yeah, so he was really rich and really smart and really cool.
And so he took on the role of being a man in black because he wanted to help humanity.
unidentified
Well, of course.
dan friesen
He wanted to help the country, but...
He was working alongside someone else that we've heard of before.
It is comical to hear of in this context.
joanne richards
You know, we didn't have a lot of men in black or whatever.
So you had rich young men or young rich men who wanted to help the government.
So like Barry Goldwater and Tom Nicks, actors and people who weren't even in politics yet.
But just, you know, they had time on their hands and they wanted to help.
So there was a lot of, there was that interesting stuff going on under the, Nobody knew about this.
So Mark's dad was doing stuff as a teenager, and after the war, he was involved with investigating and dealing with alien activity and UFO sightings.
dan friesen
With Barry Goldwater.
jordan holmes
With Barry Goldwater.
dan friesen
I think he was too busy making antsy pants at the time.
jordan holmes
Was Goldwater framed as well for this action?
unidentified
Totally.
jordan holmes
That has to be the case.
dan friesen
Totally.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
Goldwater is fucking crazy, and he was super rich, so at least those details kind of make this a fun fake version of history.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
But Barry Goldwater was not a man in black.
jordan holmes
You know what?
I think, though, if you asked him now, point blank, like, hey, were you...
dan friesen
Wait, no, is he dead?
Yeah, he's dead.
jordan holmes
Yeah, he's dead.
But, like, hey, were you a man in black with Captain Mark Richards?
He'd be like, yeah, sure.
That sounds fun.
I'm not doing anything.
dan friesen
You bet I was.
jordan holmes
I am not busy.
dan friesen
This next clip, I think, is probably where this interview is the most irresponsible.
Not in terms of, like, the content, stuff like that.
Because I think allowing Joanne to say that this murder victim, Richard Baldwin, was a child pornographer without any evidence, I think that's the most deeply irresponsible thing that you could do if you're covering this story.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
But this next clip, just from an interviewer standpoint, this is where it's like you're not even trying.
joanne richards
He went to Vietnam as a lieutenant in the Army.
Before that, he went to an interstellar treaty conference, but we can come back to that.
So he was doing secret stuff early on.
He went into Vietnam as a lieutenant, came out a captain in the Army, and then moved sideways and became a captain in the Navy.
So his current rank is Navy captain.
dan friesen
So, here's the thing.
jordan holmes
Can you do that?
dan friesen
There are some problems with this story.
jordan holmes
You can't just jump from Army to Navy and stay captain.
dan friesen
Well, let's talk about it.
There's some problems here with the story that Joanne's telling Kevin about her husband's alleged military service that he really should be asking follow-up questions about in the instinct that you just expressed.
The fact that he's not indicates to me that he's actively participating in letting her spread dubious bullshit on his show, and he really doesn't care to push back on it at all.
The most glaring problem with what Joanne is saying is that Mark became a captain in the Army, then, quote, moved sideways and became a captain in the Navy.
jordan holmes
Ooh, is that an upward?
Oh, that's probably an upward move!
That's not a lateral move!
dan friesen
While it is true that a captain is a rank in both branches of the armed services, only someone who doesn't know anything about the services would think that going from army captain to navy captain is moving sideways, or is a lateral move.
In the army, captain is an O3 position, achieved after reaching the ranks of second lieutenant and first lieutenant.
Okay.
The second problem is that she's just saying that he switched branches of enlistment, as if that's something you could just do on a whim.
While it is possible to switch branches, it's not a very common thing.
And the process is really pretty complicated.
There's a saying that I ran into a few times while looking into this that goes like this.
It's easier to join the military from the street than from the fleet.
Which is to express inner branch switches are not very common.
What you have to consider is that the Navy is not just the Army, but with boats.
The different branches of service have different cultures, different missions, and different training that recruits go through.
Someone who reaches O3 in the Army most likely has a very different set of skills than someone who reaches O3 in the Navy, and there's no real guarantee that those skills are going to be transferable.
This isn't to say that it's never done, but it's pretty rare.
And when it does happen, it never comes with an arbitrary three-rank promotion, just so All right, Captain Richards.
jordan holmes
We're happy to interview you.
We'd love to have you in the Navy.
Can you just give me a list of skills that you feel like would...
Okay, you can run very fast.
dan friesen
I talked to Raptors.
jordan holmes
Okay, that one might help.
unidentified
Okay.
dan friesen
The story that Joanne is telling indicates a lack of awareness of how the military works, a lack of awareness that Captain isn't the same rank in the Army and the Navy, and a lack of awareness that there's literally no proof that Mark was even ever in the Army or in Vietnam.
Right.
Military records do exist that show that Mark's dad, Ellis, or the Dutchman, joined the Air Force in 1942.
Military records also show that he was involved in four plane crashes during his enlistment between 1943 and 1952.
I'll read to you from the report about his 1952 crash.
jordan holmes
Bad pilot.
dan friesen
Boo.
unidentified
Quote, the wings were shed on initial impact with the dike.
dan friesen
The canopy exploded off, but not by the pilot, and the tail section broke off at the turbine wheel section.
The cockpit section remained intact very well.
The pilot's head was dragged along the ground, inflicting many deep cuts and a brain concussion, also breaking his neck.
This plane crash led to Ellis leaving the service and to him being partially paralyzed.
Newspaper articles about Mark's arrest and trial include quotes from Ellis, and they all mention that he was disabled, which makes it very unlikely that he was going on space battles after 1952, or that he was fighting in the Dulcy Base battle years later, as Mark has said.
Ellis died before Joanne ever met Mark, so all she really knows about him is what he's told her.
jordan holmes
That's true.
dan friesen
So she can believe all this bullshit about Dulcy-based battles with aliens when his dad was partially paralyzed.
jordan holmes
Right.
Well, I mean, that can be faked, though.
Like, remember when Willy Wonka came out at the beginning and he was walking on his cane and then he did a somersault?
dan friesen
That's not.
jordan holmes
That's Ellis.
That's the Dutchman.
dan friesen
All right.
That's not.
It's not.
He was in a bad plane crash.
jordan holmes
It does sound like he was in a bad plane crash.
dan friesen
Mark is almost certainly making up his military service.
He claims that he served in Vietnam, but Saigon fell in April 1975, and Mark graduated from Dominican College with a history degree in 1976.
He was born in 1953, so being 22 or 23 at the time of graduating from an undergraduate program is right on schedule.
And in 1973, he was arrested for insurance fraud, and though the charges were eventually dropped, it's pretty strong proof that he wasn't in Vietnam at the time.
There's literally no proof that Mark was ever enlisted.
No documentation, no pictures of him in uniform, no medals or stripes.
Short of some sort of bombshell that they're just not showing anybody for some reason, it's pretty easy to see that this is a case of stolen valor on Mark's part.
And a decent interviewer would have sniffed out that possibility the second Joanne said that Mark moved sideways from Army Captain to Navy Captain.
It's an absurd statement.
And Kevin doesn't bat an eyelash.
He doesn't ask a follow-up question because he's an active participant in platforming this bullshit.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
Well, Dan, now that you've established that he was, in fact, both a captain in the Army and the Navy, we can just move on, right?
Please give a summary of the rest of the episode.
kevin moore
What other amazing things?
dan friesen
So, I'm contending that he's an active...
Participant in this.
And this next clip, I think, kind of reinforces that as he tells people to go listen to other interviews Mark has done.
joanne richards
And even like Carrie Cassidy, she's been there twice now, and just anybody who goes to visit him, I don't want to say, I try not to put him on a pedestal, but you're just in awe of the wealth of information that he knows on so many levels.
It's great.
kevin moore
Yeah, absolutely.
And yeah, I would agree with you there because I saw her reaction when she came out of the prison.
jordan holmes
Wait, he saw her?
kevin moore
And I would advise anyone to watch the Carrie Cassidy interviews as well because they are very, very interesting.
And like you say, the first-hand journalist to meet him as well.
dan friesen
So, I mean, he's advocating and saying everyone should go listen to Carrie's interviews with Mark Richards.
And what you responded to, there's video outside of Vacaville the first time that Carrie and Joanne, or the first time Joanne brought Carrie.
She thought that you'd be able to video record stuff.
She was videotaping herself in the car and then had to...
Turn off the camera.
jordan holmes
And then turn it back on whenever they got in the car.
So you saw her face.
dan friesen
So he's obviously watched these.
jordan holmes
Right, right, right.
dan friesen
So he knows the kind of bullshit that's in them.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
The second you hear any of that, if you're not actively interested in trying to get a piece of it or something, then obviously you'd be like, look at this asshole.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
Oh, man.
dan friesen
Right.
jordan holmes
Oh, boy.
What's going on here?
There's something.
dan friesen
Oh, there is.
unidentified
There's something.
dan friesen
Oh, there's something.
jordan holmes
You're, goddammit, you're holding back a goddamn hammer.
Killing me!
dan friesen
I don't know if you remember earlier in this interview, Joanne said that Mark went to an alien conference.
Well, yeah.
Interstellar conference.
And so what that is all about is there's a bunch of alien races, right, that are coming here and they're going to decide whether we get to go to space.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
They're going to decide...
jordan holmes
In the meantime, they're taking our jobs.
unidentified
Sure.
dan friesen
And they're taking our people for experimentation.
unidentified
Of course.
dan friesen
But Eisenhower allowed them to or something.
So he goes to this conference in the UK and he meets some alien children and he makes...
Great friends with them.
But it turns out that it could have gone incredibly poorly.
joanne richards
So it was fascinating.
So Mark is there, and his father in 1952 met a raptor, which is a reptilian that was...
dan friesen
1952 is the year that Alice was in that terrible, paralyzing plane crash.
That was the raptor.
Alex.
Mark might be trying to recapture something here.
joanne richards
It looks like, I mean, he's evolved from dinosaurs.
So here's this tall guy with a long tail, a long snout, lots of big, sharp teeth and very sharp claws.
And they became friends in 1952 when Prince Naga came as an ambassador.
And you move forward almost 10 years, and Naga is at this conference with two of his children, Princess Linka and Prince Craig.
jordan holmes
Are we still doing this?
joanne richards
And so Mark gets to meet the Raptors for the first time.
He thought it was the first time.
And he becomes really good friends with Princess Linka and Prince Craig.
And they were several years older.
He was six or seven, no, seven going on eight that summer.
And they were probably, you know, they were several years older, like human years.
But they just became great friends.
And Mark's English friend, Titania, was with him.
And the humans that were there decided they wanted to have this little experiment and see, well, how are the human children going to react and get along with the alien children?
Fortunately, the raptors didn't eat them, so that was cool.
jordan holmes
That is nice.
dan friesen
That is cool.
jordan holmes
That is cool.
That is a real cool thing that happened.
dan friesen
The parents thought that it was a possibility that these raptors were going to eat the children, and then just decided, let's see what happens.
jordan holmes
Yeah, well, I mean, hey!
You win some, you lose some.
That bark was almost bait.
He was almost eaten.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
That's a legitimate part, and she's just rolling over that with a, well, that's cool.
dan friesen
I was watching your reactions, and you got real fucking shrugging and like, what the fuck is she even talking about when she said they're a couple years old in human years, and I actually think that's the most important distinction.
You were rolling your eyes at that, and you're like, I'm glad she clarified.
unidentified
Because I was going to ask, like, they're on different planets.
dan friesen
How does age work?
It's actually the most pressing question.
jordan holmes
Well, years, yeah.
Well, if we're measuring years by our Earth rotations around the sun, of course.
dan friesen
They were going to eat him, probably, but he wasn't made of chocolate.
jordan holmes
And he was a little bit older than them, after all.
I think my favorite objection here is, Do you think Mark is real mad that people know his name is Mark?
Because look at the names of all of them.
All of these people that he's thrown into all of his stories are all fun names.
Mark the whole time is like, I want to change my name to Titanium!
dan friesen
And as we know, one of the main characters from his book, Macro Shark Rampant.
The best name ever.
One of the things that I think is super important to recognize here is that he doesn't ask any fucking follow-ups after that nonsense.
The idea that Joanne is presenting this idea that Mark, as a child, went to a conference in the UK where he made friends with raptor babies who might have eaten him because his dad had made friends with raptor royalty a few years prior.
And he's just like, Okay.
jordan holmes
That can't be okay.
dan friesen
It's not a good interview.
jordan holmes
All right.
What was the conference about, first off?
dan friesen
No, she doesn't talk about that.
She's already established.
It was about whether or not humans could go to space.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
And rules for humans in the universe.
jordan holmes
Right.
So what I don't understand...
If that is what the conference is about, is why there's the possibility of being eaten by raptors.
dan friesen
Raptors will always possibly eat you.
jordan holmes
There's always that.
dan friesen
If raptors are in play, you might get eaten.
jordan holmes
I'm just saying that if you go to a UN conference on anything, there shouldn't be a chance of being eaten or killed by anyone there.
dan friesen
That's because there's no raptors in the UN.
If there were raptors in the UN, it would be fucking dicey.
Every time there's a Security Council meeting.
jordan holmes
So what is it, a 50-50 shot?
dan friesen
You wouldn't want to take that appointment.
jordan holmes
I wouldn't want to take that.
dan friesen
The appointment to that office?
No way.
I've got to be in a closed room with a raptor?
jordan holmes
All right, guys, we're going to have some breakout sessions right now.
Terrence, you're going to be with the raptors today.
Sorry about that.
dan friesen
You're going with Princess Linka.
Cool, cool.
So we learned, you know, there's raptors, of course.
We already know that.
But at this point, Joanne gets into a couple of the other races of aliens that Mark knows.
And here, you know I'm a cat guy.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
So I'm excited to learn about the cat aliens.
jordan holmes
Oh, we got some cat beings?
dan friesen
And it turns out that I could probably hang with these cat aliens.
jordan holmes
Yeah?
joanne richards
There's a cat species.
And they're basically scientists and artists and archaeologists.
You know, the one he talks about the most, she's a contessa.
She comes here to the planet on archaeological digs because she's trying to discover evidence of when and where her species has been when they visited Earth.
dan friesen
So I hear that.
jordan holmes
So she's an Egyptologist?
dan friesen
Right.
jordan holmes
What are you guys talking about with Bast, dude?
I know her.
dan friesen
First of all, feline Contessa might be a new rank.
Above Raptor Princess, Feline Contessa.
jordan holmes
That's pretty great.
That's pretty great.
dan friesen
The other thing is, like, I hear that and I can't not hear it as Mark, like, just thinking about litter boxes.
Like, cats like to dig.
So they're archaeologists.
jordan holmes
See, now, I heard it.
dan friesen
That's all I hear.
jordan holmes
I heard it as his veiled sexism there, because those are the jobs that he considers to be more feminine in nature.
dan friesen
It's possible.
And then also Egypt, like the Association of Cats in Egypt.
I think it could be all of these things, quite frankly.
jordan holmes
Yeah, no, put it all in them.
dan friesen
Whatever it is, it's dumb.
jordan holmes
It's not Mako shark rampant, that's for sure.
dan friesen
So we got cat aliens, and I'm thrilled with them.
I'd like to go on a dig with them sometime.
They seem cool as shit.
One semester in college, I thought I was going to be an archaeology major.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
So I could swing with these Contessas.
But in this next clip, we find out about dog aliens.
And my suspicion that I do not trust dogs is...
Hold on.
All right.
jordan holmes
I just need to know...
You responded very harshly.
I'm sorry.
I got stuck.
So is every other alien species of a feudal structure?
Like she's a Contessa?
Like there's no...
dan friesen
It's hard to say.
jordan holmes
Nobody's just like...
You know, like, everybody's...
dan friesen
I think it's because Mark likes that kind of fiction.
jordan holmes
He does, that's true.
dan friesen
Like, he's into, like, the arterial legends and stuff like that.
So I think that's where his brain is.
But, dude, dogs...
jordan holmes
Now let's get into dog species.
dan friesen
I do not like dogs.
I mean, I don't hate them, but I'd always rather be around cats than dogs.
There's just something I don't trust about them.
And it turns out, based on what Joanne has to say, I've been always right.
jordan holmes
You were right all along.
joanne richards
There's a dog species that has a huge base here.
Their whole existence, I mean, they're merchants.
They're businessmen.
They love to work with humans just as a matter of being capitalistic.
dan friesen
Dog aliens are capitalists.
They are interstellar merchants.
unidentified
Oh.
Oh.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes
I don't know.
Oh, of course.
Of course.
I should have seen that one coming.
dan friesen
Space capitalism.
jordan holmes
And even as aliens, they still love to be around humans, Dan.
That is true across all aspects of the universe.
Dogs love to be around people.
dan friesen
Right, but it's all because of capitalism.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
Where's the dog space?
Where are these guys coming from?
dan friesen
I don't know.
Is there a dog star?
Yeah, there's a dog star.
jordan holmes
There is a dog star.
dan friesen
That's where they're from.
Who gives a shit?
jordan holmes
I'm sorry.
I thought, well, are we going to get some Mostef and Talib Kweli from the Black Star?
dan friesen
Yeah, absolutely.
unidentified
Yeah, that sounds good.
dan friesen
So we've got cat aliens, and they're intellectual and great, and I love them.
Now you've got dog aliens, and they're always looking for a buck.
jordan holmes
Crass merchants.
Crass traders traveling from system to system selling their wares?
dan friesen
Nonsense.
So in this next clip, Joanne sort of is selling the idea that pretty much all natural disasters are just cover-ups for mass alien abductions.
jordan holmes
Oh, okay.
dan friesen
Now let's see how Kevin responds to that sort of an absurd notion being said to his fucking face.
joanne richards
And so a lot of times natural disasters will happen because there's either about to be or there's just been a major culling.
Of humans, and they just have kidnapped thousands of people and are planning to take them off the planet for very negative reasons.
It's usually not because they want you to be their best friend and go to school with their kids.
jordan holmes
Right.
joanne richards
So that's the negative side about it.
And if people talk about, well, it's just, you know, it's not positive.
kevin moore
Whoa.
unidentified
Yeah.
jordan holmes
Whoa!
kevin moore
Well, you look at some of these planes that just disappear out of the sky, and you think, well, there's no trace of evidence where they've gone.
Who's took them?
dan friesen
Who's take them?
Who's took them?
jordan holmes
Oh, boy.
dan friesen
So she's saying that natural disasters are covered for mass alien abductions, and his response to that is, you know what?
It's weird that planes disappear, too.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
That's probably the same thing.
jordan holmes
All of those planes that just disappear.
I get it.
I get it.
We're all talking about the Malaysian plane.
It's 2015.
I gotcha.
But come on, dude.
It's not like there's a ton of planes that just disappear.
That's not...
What are we talking about?
Amelia Earhart?
dan friesen
So that's bad.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
I mean, that interpretation that Joanne is making is bad.
The fact that he doesn't push back in any way is bad.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
The fact that he yes-ands it by talking about missing planes is really bad.
jordan holmes
Also, I think she's against forced busing.
I think that might be part of it, too.
dan friesen
Could be.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
You know what else she's against?
Terrorism.
jordan holmes
Oh.
dan friesen
But it turns out...
jordan holmes
Who's the terrorist?
dan friesen
Well, it turns out they're all working with aliens.
jordan holmes
Oh.
joanne richards
And they also work with terrorist groups.
jordan holmes
Which ones?
joanne richards
So, for example, when you hear of a terrorist activity, maybe at a shopping mall or maybe in a Middle Eastern country, for example, it's not always just the human terrorists that are at fault.
They're often working with alien, negative aliens.
Bad guys.
jordan holmes
I think you can call them terrorists too, right?
kevin moore
There you are.
Well, yeah.
joanne richards
There you are!
dan friesen
Well, yeah.
jordan holmes
Well, yeah.
joanne richards
Of course.
unidentified
Well, yeah.
dan friesen
So he closes out the interview here by saying, like, we haven't barely even talked about the important stuff.
I want to have you back on.
jordan holmes
No!
dan friesen
Yeah, he ends the interview.
jordan holmes
Come on!
dan friesen
Yeah, absolutely.
He ends with, like, a, you've got to come back on.
jordan holmes
Jesus.
dan friesen
And then listen to the plugs.
kevin moore
I mean, I know we've barely touched, we haven't covered Dulce, we haven't covered barely anything.
So what I'm going to do is I'm going to get you back on on a future show.
I mean, again, I would recommend people to, and we'll put links on there for the Carrie Cassidy interviews as well, because, you know, she goes a lot more into depth into this whole amazing story.
joanne richards
If people go on my website, and will you put up the link for that?
Edhca.org for Earth Defense Headquarters.
If you go on my website and click on products, I have descriptions of all the different reports that I sell that he's written about his different missions and adventures.
I mean, they sound like adventures, but they're true military missions.
And some are on planet and some are off planet.
So whatever you want, you can get.
kevin moore
Yep.
Don't worry about that.
Your website has been coming up on the screen all the way through this interview.
joanne richards
Great.
Thank you so much.
kevin moore
Oh, no, no.
It's the least we can do.
dan friesen
It's the least he could do.
jordan holmes
Wow.
Wow, you obsequious prick.
dan friesen
What?
unidentified
So...
dan friesen
This is all that we really need to listen to here from that interview without just playing the entire thing, but you get the taste of it.
This is an interview where Kevin Moore does literally nothing to push back against any of the things that Joanne Richards is telling him.
He believes her.
He doubles down on her narratives and is not in any way exercising skepticism or looking for evidence for anything.
He even establishes that Mark was away on a mission when Richard Baldwin's murder happened.
Joanne didn't even have to say that as an answer to an open question.
Kevin established it for her.
Something like that makes Kevin's claims of caring so much about how Baldwin's sister was appalled at care Yeah.
So I just...
Here's the thing.
The more I look at Kevin Moore's videos about his documentary that he's making, the more I think he's a fucking asshole.
Yeah.
You look at the past, you look at this stuff, the fact that he's actively engaged in spreading these stories before, and then now is like, how dare you spread these stories?
That's a little bit rough.
jordan holmes
I assume that he's giving full disclosures while he's talking about this documentary that, hey, I used to believe in...
dan friesen
I haven't heard a word of that.
jordan holmes
No.
dan friesen
I'm not saying that it isn't in any of those videos, but he has far too many for me to watch all of them.
unidentified
Gotcha.
dan friesen
Although I have watched a lot.
unidentified
Okay.
jordan holmes
Is he getting...
Is he self-funding?
Is this GoFundMe?
unidentified
We might learn a little bit about that.
dan friesen
But before we get to that, I want to tell you, I think he's an asshole.
And one of the reasons is things like this.
This clip that he's put out in one of these vlogs, where he seems to be saying that part of his research that he's doing for this documentary is digging into the validity of Mark and Joanne's marriage.
kevin moore
Now, Project Avalon have done me a massive favour as well.
They've also posted stuff that Joanne wanted posting on there.
And what Joanne's posted is that she is actually married to Mark.
That was one of my concerns with Joanne Richards.
And yes, I did contact Montgomery Clerk Office.
And yes, you are married to Mark Richards.
And yes, I've ordered the marriage certificate and will put that in the documentary.
But, Joanne, in which name did you marry Mark?
Did you use your childhood name or felt, or did you use a different name like Fawcett when you got married?
Well, we hope, right?
More info on...
Joanne Richards coming soon, the wife of the amazing secret space captain, Mark Richards.
dan friesen
Doesn't that seem asshole-ish?
unidentified
Yeah!
dan friesen
Seems pretty asshole-ish.
jordan holmes
Unless she's a noted conwoman with multiple...
If she's a bigamist, I guess, is his point.
dan friesen
That documentary is about something else, then.
jordan holmes
Yeah, that's true.
dan friesen
It's not about Mark Richards and his murder, then.
unidentified
No.
dan friesen
But one thing that's important to remember is that Joanne, by her own admission, has, quote, been married and divorced several times because she, quote, had some pretty awful marriages.
Getting married and divorced frequently can lead to some nominal confusion, especially to external observers, and it seems like Kevin's trying to take that and make it seem suspicious.
But ultimately it just feels petty and vindictive.
Yeah.
unidentified
Their marriage has nothing to do with this documentary as it's being presented.
dan friesen
Whatever he's trying to demonstrate here with this idea of like, aha, expose your wedding certificate.
All that doesn't strengthen his argument that Mark is lying about the murder.
It's just an attempt to hurt Joanne personally.
Yeah.
unidentified
Which I find ugly.
jordan holmes
I suppose the only way that that is not a complete and total dick move is if she is like a noted con woman who has traveled around.
unidentified
But she's not.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
She's not.
jordan holmes
But if she was something of the sort, then you can say, oh, well, look, she's also taking advantage of Mark to do her own scam.
You know what I'm saying?
dan friesen
She might be on some subconscious level, but it's not that.
That's not an essential piece of what he's looking into.
jordan holmes
Of course not.
dan friesen
The birth name that he has is one, and then the other name that he uses is Fawcett.
And if you look in the past, you can find her going by that name probably from a previous marriage.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
She took on her husband's surname.
So, like, in 1997, you can find records of her online going as Joanne Fawcett.
And then she gets married to Mark, and she's Joanne Fawcett Richards.
So there's nothing suspicious here, as far as I can tell.
jordan holmes
Yeah, that seems fine.
dan friesen
The burden of proof for him to justify this not as being, like, him just being a fucking dick is real high.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
He needs to establish something other than winking smugness about, I'm looking into you.
unidentified
Yeah.
jordan holmes
Yeah, he's a dick.
dan friesen
It's gross.
And I have a few other reasons to be suspicious about Kevin's tone and the way he's carrying himself.
One of those has to do with the fact that in May 2018, Kevin Moore had another interview with Carrie Cassidy.
His interview with Joanne Richards was from 2015, so I suppose he could make the argument that in the intervening years he'd had a change of heart about the whole matter, and he's now working to right those wrongs, like you suggested earlier.
jordan holmes
Exactly.
dan friesen
But this interview with Carrie took place less than a year ago, and if you pay attention, you start to see shades of deception.
This interview happened before he started working on his documentary about Mark Richards, but he uses footage from this interview for the documentary.
The way he's using this footage is interesting.
Now, Jordan, I'd like you to take a listen to this from the trailer.
kerry cassidy
And he's in constant contact with the Raptors and they are now working, according to him, with our military.
kevin moore
We're not saying Mark Richards didn't commit a crime here.
unidentified
He didn't.
kevin moore
Well, okay.
kerry cassidy
He's absolutely framed.
unidentified
When it comes to Mark Richards in particular...
There can be no doubt that Carrie Cassidy has no objectivity.
She's personally involved and invested in this story like no other.
dan friesen
So what you have...
jordan holmes
Calm it down with the music.
dan friesen
I like it.
unidentified
All right.
jordan holmes
I get you.
But that's...
unidentified
All right.
dan friesen
From how the clip of Carrie was used in the trailer, you get the sense that Kevin was confronting her about how Mark was actually guilty of the murder, and she foolishly insists that he was framed.
Plus, the clip that plays right after is meant to drive home that intended message.
Now, let's listen to how that exchange actually went down in the context of the actual interview from May 2018.
kerry cassidy
In the case of Mark Richards, he's constantly talking about the raptor beings.
The raptors having gone through a certain amount of evolution.
Since the time of the dinosaurs broke off from that, went off on their own, actually left this part of the galaxy.
And all of this is in the Mark Richards interviews.
dan friesen
I want to apologize in advance.
This is like a three-minute long clip, but it's worth it just to hear this in context.
kerry cassidy
And he's in constant contact with the raptors, and they are now working, according to him, with our military.
Protecting humanity.
kevin moore
How is he in contact in jail?
So he's channeling that information?
kerry cassidy
Yeah, he's, you know, if you want to call it channeling, whatever you want to call it, downloading.
He's, you know, look, humans can go through portals.
Right here we could create a portal and go through it.
kevin moore
We're not saying Mark Richards didn't commit a crime here.
He didn't.
Well, okay.
kerry cassidy
He's absolutely framed.
kevin moore
You know, I had someone email me that said, "Why did you have that Mark Richards guy?" Because I had his wife on years ago.
kerry cassidy
Joanne, she's a lovely person.
kevin moore
Yeah, years ago.
He's like, "You don't know one thing." He's like, "I was in that town when those murders took place." This guy is guilty of those murders.
And I didn't reply to him, because it wasn't...
kerry cassidy
First of all, he's supposed to be the mastermind, so how does that person know he's guilty?
kevin moore
I don't...
unidentified
This is just a comment, an email, sorry, that was emailed to me.
kerry cassidy
Yeah, but this is also a person who easily can be influenced.
He could be taken over.
unidentified
I don't know who this guy is.
kerry cassidy
He could be working for the dark side.
He could be a CIA plant.
kevin moore
No idea there was.
kerry cassidy
And again, he could be a light worker that they've taken over and is now working for the dark side.
I mean, these people are so prevalent.
jordan holmes
Of course.
kerry cassidy
You know...
You can think what you want.
Obviously, I've got eight interviews, and I've sat this close to him for hours and hours in prison.
kevin moore
And you used your intuition on that, yeah.
kerry cassidy
And, you know, don't take my word for it.
I wish I could get him on camera, but the prison won't allow it.
kevin moore
No, you're not allowed.
kerry cassidy
Now, you've got to ask yourself, this man has been in prison well over 30 years.
He's, you know, in his 60s.
He's failing health.
You know, he's...
He didn't commit the murders.
He supposedly masterminded it.
Why isn't he on parole at this point in his life?
kevin moore
Well, I would say, put all that to one side.
kerry cassidy
He was a military man.
He still is a military man.
In fact, he's regarded as such by the prison guards and the prison itself.
kevin moore
Right.
kerry cassidy
He was basically treated as the Navy captain that he is and was trained to be.
unidentified
Is he?
kerry cassidy
In prison now.
kevin moore
Put all that to one side.
Let's hear the information that he's talking about now.
That's what I would say.
I only mention that because...
kerry cassidy
No, it's fine.
I'm just saying, you know, this is the thing.
Is that all you need is...
You know, tomorrow someone will come along and say, Carrie Cassidy does this and so, and then you're left with a dilemma.
Do you believe?
I've known her since...
They could lie through their teeth, you know?
kevin moore
And yet because they've said it, you can't say nothing against it.
unidentified
Or if you do...
kerry cassidy
Well, even so, you know...
kevin moore
If you do, it means nothing because they've said it.
unidentified
Yeah.
kerry cassidy
You know, what do you want to do?
This is discernment.
This is the sort of land we live in.
And I say to people, do you expect truth to be delivered on a silver platter?
If that was the case, what would be the point?
kevin moore
Some people do.
dan friesen
So, I think you can get a very clear sense that that exchange is not accurately representative of what he's playing in the trailer.
jordan holmes
Not at all.
dan friesen
That's bullshit.
jordan holmes
So he could...
dan friesen
That was from less than a year ago.
jordan holmes
Right, but that's the reason that he has that footage, is because when he talked to all of these people, he was a softball interview.
dan friesen
Well, the Carrie and Joanne interviews are from before.
jordan holmes
Right, no, that's what I'm saying.
dan friesen
When he was on board with their shit.
jordan holmes
Exactly.
He's not going to give him an interview now, is what I'm saying.
dan friesen
It pains me to say this, Jordan, and you know me, I don't ever want to be coming to Carrie Cassidy's defense, but from everything I've been able to tell, I really think Kevin Moore is doing our girl dirty.
Like, I think he's doing some bad shit here.
Nothing about what he's doing feels sincere.
There's even something about the whole thing that feels vindictive and dishonest in some way.
Something must have happened between May 2018 and the present day that sent Kevin Moore on this trajectory, but I can't pretend that I have any idea what that thing would have...
I have no idea.
But something has to have changed.
jordan holmes
Well, she owes him 20 bucks.
dan friesen
Could be.
These people.
jordan holmes
And you know what?
dan friesen
It's a goddamn shame.
Because I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of someone making a documentary about how Mark Richards is a charlatan and a murderer masquerading as a heroic space captain.
The story is perfect for a farcical documentary, so long as the subject matter is treated with the respect that the victim's loved ones deserve.
jordan holmes
Our next Patreon goal is, of course, $300,000 to make this documentary.
You guys can make it.
dan friesen
But this doesn't feel like that.
It doesn't feel like a farcical documentary that is just interested in the subject matter.
It feels ugly and unhealthy somehow.
The way he's gloating in these vlogs about digging into their personal lives and stuff like that is just gross.
And part of that feeling I have is based on a piece of information that I've intentionally withheld from you.
You remember how I told you?
jordan holmes
Oh, I thought you were going to continue to intentionally withhold it, which would be a dick move on your part.
unidentified
It would be rude.
jordan holmes
Yeah, it would be awful.
Why would you even tell me that you were holding that information?
dan friesen
I got a secret.
This has been Knowledge Fight.
Jordan, you remember how I told you that in 2011...
jordan holmes
Next goal on Patreon!
dan friesen
I'll tell you my secret.
I told you that in 2011, Kevin posted his first YouTube video, the trailer for his new TV show, The Moore Show.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
I kind of forgot to tell you that in the description of that video, Kevin also announces that he, quote, has now started his own international psychic service, so support The Moore Show and get a reading.
Uh-oh.
It turns out that Kevin has been trying to market psychic abilities for money going on for at least eight years.
jordan holmes
So he is a psychic as well.
dan friesen
Well, he's just running a psychic hotline.
jordan holmes
Oh, right.
dan friesen
He's just running a hotline of psychics.
jordan holmes
Which kind of parallels very much Carrie being like, now, he was just the mastermind.
He didn't commit the murder.
dan friesen
Kevin provides a link to book him for a reading, so maybe he is a psychic, on tmspsychics.com, which now redirects to channeling.com, a website offering channeled readings from extraterrestrials and other dimensional beings delivered to you for a price from a team of mediums working for Kevin Moore.
Or at least I assume they're working for him, considering that Kevin's face is the logo for the website and he recorded a welcome message that plays on the front page.
Oh, and also in the links section at the bottom of the page.
Gotcha.
jordan holmes
Well, I mean, it could be like a situation, you know, like a haircuttery situation.
You know, what you do is you're actually renting the chair, man.
You're an independent contractor.
No.
dan friesen
Some of his psychic employees offer silver-level readings for $100 an hour.
$100 an hour.
$100 an hour for a silver!
Silver level.
jordan holmes
Oh, I don't want to know what gold is.
dan friesen
It's $129 an hour.
jordan holmes
Okay, well that seems like a steal.
dan friesen
But then some other ones offer platinum level readings for the very affordable price of $255 an hour.
That's a lot.
jordan holmes
He is Goldilocks pricing all day.
dan friesen
That is ambitious.
jordan holmes
Wow.
dan friesen
And if your hour is about up and the medium you're talking to has more important information for you, don't worry.
You're not going to get charged for an extra hour.
If it's a platinum reading, you are going to have to pay $6 a minute to continue the call.
jordan holmes
Oh, well, that's not terrible.
Let's see.
Let's see.
How much would...
dan friesen
It's only $2.30 a minute for the other levels, though.
jordan holmes
Right, but...
dan friesen
Additional minutes.
jordan holmes
So it would be an extra $240 per minute.
Or per an hour.
Right.
dan friesen
That's for silver and gold.
jordan holmes
Right, right, right.
dan friesen
It would be $3,600.
$360.
jordan holmes
$360.
dan friesen
For the platinum level.
jordan holmes
Which is more than if you just bought another hour.
dan friesen
You bet.
But that's how they get you, nickel and dime.
jordan holmes
Yeah, nickel and dime.
dan friesen
I don't want to put this too strongly, but I would be lying if I said this didn't seem like one of the biggest scam operations I've stumbled into accidentally over the course of doing this show.
jordan holmes
That one's crazy.
dan friesen
Say what you want about Carrie Cassidy and her dumbass operation.
At least she doesn't have the temerity to associate herself with something this overtly predatory.
jordan holmes
Yeah, this is bad.
dan friesen
This is insane.
jordan holmes
This is insane.
dan friesen
Looking over the website, it's almost a parody of a New Age cash grab with multiple how-to-pay links.
Like you could pay with your credit card or PayPal all over the top of the page.
jordan holmes
Fun.
dan friesen
And most of the FAQ section is dedicated to payment options and attempts to alleviate concerns of people who might find themselves feeling skeptical.
jordan holmes
So you think I'm lying to you.
I will tell you exactly why I am not lying to you.
For $6 a minute, you can pay with PayPal.
dan friesen
Here's how they answer skeptics' question.
Quote, All our readers are experts at telephone readings, and when you call, they'll connect to you through your voice vibration by picking up variations in the voice, much like radio waves.
As your face can't be read during a phone call, readers rely on their gift alone, making the reading more relevant.
You see, Jordan?
They can be even more psychic on the phone.
jordan holmes
Wow.
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
I love that spin.
That is a great spin.
That is a really good spin.
dan friesen
It's impressive.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
I'm going to give them that one.
dan friesen
I decided to dig around a little and see who some of these mediums are that Kevin was employing.
There's at least 36 mediums that Kevin's been able to find, screen, and convince to work for him on the phone, which alone seems like a Herculean effort that he's managed to pull off.
jordan holmes
It sounds probably more like he has four or five.
dan friesen
I don't know.
I got to know a couple of these folks, so I'm going to introduce you to them by reading you their bios.
jordan holmes
Cool, that sounds fun.
dan friesen
First, I'd like you to meet David.
Just David.
jordan holmes
Just David?
dan friesen
Quote, David channels felines and mostly the male big cat Metex, as well as many beings who define themselves as reptilians.
Most importantly, those that are somewhat affiliated with the Draconian Empire and go by the name Kalask, but also Vortak and more cool.
A whole lot going on there.
unidentified
Wow.
dan friesen
A whole lot.
jordan holmes
Wow.
So he's just mad at Mark for stepping in his game.
dan friesen
Maybe.
But look, my favorite part of that, you know, there's a lot.
Like I said, there's a lot going on.
That's great.
But my favorite fucking part is that Kalask is only, quote, somewhat affiliated with the Draconian Empire.
You can trust Kalask because he's not fully affiliated with the Draconian Empire, but he's just associated enough to know what's going on.
jordan holmes
See, now I'm more angry at Kalask.
unidentified
Why?
jordan holmes
What is he doing?
Is he playing both sides?
Why is he only somewhat affiliated?
Where is he at?
unidentified
No, no, no.
jordan holmes
Is he nearby?
I apologize.
dan friesen
He's like Littlefinger.
jordan holmes
He's got his fingers in everything.
dan friesen
Then, there's Earth Angel, the person.
Not to be confused with the 1954 song by the Penguins that was featured in Back to the Future.
jordan holmes
She was named...
Buy that song.
dan friesen
I bet David feels bummed out that he goes by David when it's fair game to call yourself Earth Angel.
jordan holmes
Nah, David, good biblical name.
He's a man who's grounded.
dan friesen
David is an Earth Angel.
jordan holmes
He doesn't have his head in the clouds, Dan.
That's how you know this stuff is true.
Because he's just David.
dan friesen
Earth Angel's bio is not that interesting.
We really just learned that, quote, her test reading blew us away, which inspires a load of confidence.
jordan holmes
That was it?
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
That was it?
unidentified
That's the whole bio?
dan friesen
That's most of the bio, yeah.
jordan holmes
Okay.
All right.
dan friesen
There's also a woman named Galaxy who can, quote, connect to those that have passed if the need is there, which I think is a crazy way to phrase that.
She can talk to the dead if you need that sort of thing.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
If you need that sort of thing, she can talk to the dead.
jordan holmes
You know what?
That also leaves open the possibility that you call and she's like, You don't really need it.
unidentified
And I know that because I can't do it.
dan friesen
If you needed it, I could.
jordan holmes
You would go somewhere else.
dan friesen
Phrasing is strange.
Then there's Rashmi, who claims that she can channel not only Jesus Christ, literally, but also Shiva, Buddha, and many others.
jordan holmes
She's got the whole panoply going, or panoply.
dan friesen
Unfortunately, the rest of their bios are pretty boring.
We can't just, unfortunately, can't just read their bios for the next hour, which I kind of hoped we could.
Also, it's just kind of hard to top a guy who specializes in talking to the goddamn Thundercats.
jordan holmes
Yeah, but you know what?
They're mostly archaeologists and poets anyways.
What do you really want to do with that?
dan friesen
In theory.
Some of them offer psychic readings, some specialize in giving love advice, or reading tarot cards.
Some even claim that they can use Reiki energy to heal you over the phone, since it's all energy-based, and energy can travel over long distances.
So what's the deal?
jordan holmes
He's got a good point.
dan friesen
Well, I'm not sure if he does.
Here's the thing.
A lot of the psychics he employs on this alien channeling hotline...
Have also appeared as guests on his show, being interviewed about their psychic gifts.
Of course.
jordan holmes
Synergy!
dan friesen
On his October 6th, 2013 episode, he interviewed Rashmi, the psychic who can tell, if you want to do, you can talk to Jesus and Buddha through her.
He's had William Schaefer as a guest twice on his show.
And for $129 an hour, William can tell you everything that you need to know about yourself from reading from the Akashic Records.
This all seems very shady.
kevin moore
Yeah.
dan friesen
It's very upsetting.
jordan holmes
So, what you're saying is that Carrie needs to do a counter-documentary about how shady he is, and then they'll cannibalize each other.
dan friesen
I think we are right now.
jordan holmes
That's fair.
Actually, that's very fair.
dan friesen
So, okay.
jordan holmes
But we don't have the great music, the great strings.
Yeah, that's true.
dan friesen
We could use the endgame theme.
unidentified
So, alright.
dan friesen
Kevin Moore is operating a Miss Cleo-style psychic hotline, and he's possibly stealthily using his radio show to promote the people who offer services for money on it.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
But at least he's not running around acting like he can contact otherworldly entities himself.
I mean, if this guy, he's making a documentary exposing the lies of Captain Mark Richards because he cares so much about maintaining the integrity of serious-minded, evidence-based researchers in his community, he wouldn't be doing something like that.
I hate to be the bearer of obvious news.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
But on March 28th, 2015, Kevin started releasing videos of himself channeling a soul group known as The One.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
I've watched a number of his channeling videos.
jordan holmes
Wait, like Barry Gordy soul group or like...
dan friesen
What does that mean?
jordan holmes
Motown.
dan friesen
No.
jordan holmes
Sorry.
Sorry for the deep Motown cut.
dan friesen
No, no.
I know who Barry Gordy is, but I just was like, what are you asking me?
jordan holmes
The soul group.
dan friesen
I've watched a number of these channeling videos.
And all he's doing is talking with his eyes closed, bobbing his head a little bit, and appearing slightly strained.
It has the feeling of, you know how if you watch a band, the lead guitarist will make that pained look while they're doing a solo?
It really looks a lot like that.
In the first channeling session he released, the entities that were speaking through him seemed particularly interested in just kind of bragging about Kevin's channeling abilities, which I find a little bit strange.
unidentified
We come to you.
As many.
The gift of Kevin is the gift to be able to channel multiple entities, multiple beings.
jordan holmes
Sorry, I should have written this down.
unidentified
And that is a true gift.
In this special time on planet Earth right now.
He doesn't need to change his voice.
Or act in a different way.
Oh, no.
dan friesen
All I hear there is him saying, I can't do characters.
That's all I hear.
jordan holmes
I hear Andy Daly's L. Ron Hubbard all day.
unidentified
I wrote this to myself, of myself, for myself.
dan friesen
He doesn't need to impress you with different voices for the aliens that come through him.
Hold on, hold on.
He's not done bragging.
unidentified
I'm sorry.
dan friesen
The alien entities are not done bragging through him.
jordan holmes
I have a problem with how not busy they are, apparently.
They do not need to get to the point.
unidentified
No.
This is an agreement we have with him.
On a deeper level.
At a time beyond now.
Beyond the universe.
At the place where consciousness is.
dan friesen
Where is that?
I don't know.
It's all just this new-age bullshit.
jordan holmes
Do they know?
dan friesen
No.
unidentified
Oh, okay.
dan friesen
Because they're Kevin, and Kevin doesn't know shit.
jordan holmes
Yeah, that's true.
dan friesen
So there's something pretty weird about these sorts of people who get into this kind of thing.
They just go on and on about how bad the ego is.
You've got to free yourself from ego.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
And yet at the same time, I just find this dichotomy fascinating that the channeled entities that come through them really seem like they just want to stroke their egos.
jordan holmes
It is strange, isn't it?
dan friesen
Yeah, and it goes on in this next clip.
unidentified
We are most grateful for him agreeing.
kevin moore
To take us and himself on this courageous journey.
unidentified
Why?
kevin moore
It has only just been a few months for him to know this truth about himself.
And he starts on a path now, an agreed path at a time beyond now.
unidentified
When it was agreed upon that this would come at this time, this gift would be known.
He could have said no to this gift.
He could have walked away, but...
jordan holmes
Sure sounds like he's a great guy.
kevin moore
He understood at the deepest part of his core the importance of the work that needs to be undertaken now at this, as we've said, special time on planet Earth.
unidentified
In...
jordan holmes
Yeah?
unidentified
The universe.
The universe.
dan friesen
I really think that an actual other entity speaking through him would not have that kind of a pause.
jordan holmes
Hey, it's channeling.
It's like a delay.
You know, whenever they're giving interviews, it's like a three-second delay.
It takes time.
dan friesen
Bullshit.
Crazy bullshit.
jordan holmes
I have to...
The true gift is just having the flat-out balls to do this.
dan friesen
Absolutely.
jordan holmes
That is crazy.
dan friesen
Absolutely.
jordan holmes
Crazy!
dan friesen
It's brash.
jordan holmes
And the fact that he's...
It's almost like...
dan friesen
You have to have a level of confidence that is unrivaled.
jordan holmes
Unreal.
dan friesen
I can't even imagine.
jordan holmes
No.
No chance.
Imagine even if...
And I assume that he's not reading this off a teleprompter or whatever.
dan friesen
He has his eyes closed, rocking back and forth.
jordan holmes
Like, imagine you're also doing this extemporaneously without breaking into laughter at all.
dan friesen
I think he...
Well, he does smirk.
jordan holmes
Okay, okay.
dan friesen
At a couple points.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
So, there is that.
jordan holmes
There is that.
I'm really fucking with you guys, and I don't know how to stop.
dan friesen
Well, I mean, it's one of those interesting things, too, that, like, channeling kind of has a built-in, like, self-defense switch.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
Because you're like, you're talking to alien entities, and so you can be like, ah, Dan is actually a genius.
He's meant to save the world.
You know, I can just do that.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
And then let's say you start heckling me in the middle of it.
And conceivably, aliens are talking through me.
That shouldn't affect me.
But there's the built-in excuse that that'll disrupt the stream with the aliens or whatever.
So there's all these little things that are built in in order to defend yourself from it ever really being verifiable in any way.
All this shit.
jordan holmes
You know what's interesting is that this is one of those situations where...
The fact that he is such an awful performer is almost like a more authentic version, you know?
dan friesen
It helps me see that he's trying really hard.
If you want a treat, go watch some of these channeling videos.
jordan holmes
This is insane.
dan friesen
They're crazy.
jordan holmes
This is nuts.
dan friesen
So you might notice in that clip that these channeled entities mention that Kevin's only known about these gifts for a few months.
jordan holmes
A few months!
dan friesen
Right, so that obviously makes you think.
jordan holmes
When he was behind on the rent.
A few months ago.
dan friesen
Well, I mean, it does make you think about that.
What happened a couple months ago?
It's possibly unrelated, but in August 2014, which is about five months before this, Kevin started to make a ton of videos about Edgar Cayce.
From August to the end of that year, 19 out of the 31 videos he posted on his YouTube channel, not counting the two-part Best of 2014 series, were about Edgar Cayce.
For some context, his channel had existed, regularly posting videos about New Age and spiritualist topics for three years at that point, and he had released exactly zero videos about Edgar Cayce until then.
Clearly, the topic was a bit of a new obsession for him.
Edgar Cayce is the guy who's largely considered to be one of the founders of the New Age movement.
He was a real weirdo from the early 1900s who would channel higher-level entities while he was pretending to be asleep.
Then he'd pretend not to have any idea what he'd said once he woke up, and at a certain point in his career, everyone started writing down everything he said while he was pretending to be asleep, and he's become...
He's called the sleeping prophet, or the sleeping mystic.
jordan holmes
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
He's a bit of a...
We'll get to it.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
We could spend all day...
jordan holmes
Dirt gently kind of situation.
dan friesen
We could spend all day going over Casey's nonsense, but I'll just give you a couple of the complete...
Bullshit prophecies that he made that should give you a sense of like, oh, alright.
He claimed that Atlantis had been destroyed by a death ray.
unidentified
True.
dan friesen
And that in 1958, the U.S. would rediscover that death ray technology.
jordan holmes
True.
dan friesen
He also prophesied that Atlantis would rise from the ocean in either 1968 or 1969, which it didn't.
jordan holmes
Nice.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
He predicted that California would fall into the ocean sometime in the 1960s.
jordan holmes
That did happen.
dan friesen
Didn't.
jordan holmes
Escape from L.A. I remember it.
dan friesen
That didn't happen in the 60s.
He famously predicted that 1933 would, quote, be a good year.
1933 is largely remembered as the year that Hitler became Chancellor of Germany.
And Nazism started to go wild.
jordan holmes
That's a fun one.
That's a bad coincidence.
dan friesen
It was also the worst year of the Great Depression when unemployment topped 20%.
So by most metrics, 1933 was the definition of not a good year.
jordan holmes
That's a really fun coincidence.
dan friesen
It's one of the worst years.
jordan holmes
That is the funnest coincidence.
dan friesen
He prophesied a literal Armageddon would arrive in 1999, which it did not.
jordan holmes
It almost did, though.
dan friesen
He predicted that Christianity would become the dominant religion in China by 1968.
jordan holmes
Almost there.
dan friesen
This could not have been more wrong.
As of 2011, China was 2.6% Christian, and that 2.6% does not exist in a good relationship with the oppressive government.
jordan holmes
No, they don't like it.
dan friesen
This list could go on and on, and we aren't even touching on the horrible medical advice that he would give out during these readings.
jordan holmes
Oh, he gave out medical advice?
dan friesen
Yes, he fancied himself a doctor.
jordan holmes
You know, that's, in fairness...
Pretty much everybody was shitty at medical advice back then.
dan friesen
Totally, but that's one of the things that people who have gone back and studied, people who channel stuff, one of the things that's fascinating about it is all of the entities seem to be stuck in the time frame and the understanding and conventional wisdom of whatever time period the person who's channeling the material is in.
jordan holmes
That does seem like you could just read a few articles and get close back then.
dan friesen
And then, mysteriously, there's also this thing where people are channeling entities, presumably from the same group or whatever.
And they give contradictory information.
It's almost as if everybody's making all this stuff up.
jordan holmes
You know, I did find it weird that in Scientology they looked a lot like B-52 bombers.
Doesn't that seem suspicious?
dan friesen
They should have looked like the B-52s.
Fred Schneider.
So what's important here is that in August 2014, Kevin Moore started making a ton of videos about Edgar Cayce and interviewing people about him.
And then a couple months later, he coincidentally discovers amazing channeling abilities and he uses them to talk to entities who have important messages for humanity that only he can reveal.
But it's not like these things are connected or anything.
That's just me taking two separate things and pretending they're related.
I might be doing that.
Or I might have watched a ton of his channeling videos and heard him say this.
unidentified
I am just tuning into this body.
Yes.
jordan holmes
Cool.
unidentified
I have lived on this planet before.
jordan holmes
I bet I know who it is.
unidentified
A long time ago.
jordan holmes
Dan.
Do I know who it is?
kevin moore
I have left a foundation on this planet a long time ago.
unidentified
Some of you would have known me as Casey.
jordan holmes
I did know.
unidentified
Edgar Casey.
And I am one of the guides that come through Kevin.
I don't normally come through for this.
I've been there with him for his books.
And I also come through on different situations.
But just to pop in to say hello.
Hello!
jordan holmes
Just popping in to say hello, guys.
unidentified
I'm traveling through space and time.
jordan holmes
Even this one is like...
Man, I don't usually come around.
unidentified
But this Kevin dude is the fucking best!
dan friesen
I don't usually do this.
jordan holmes
I don't usually do this.
dan friesen
And I was there for all of his books, so they're really credible.
It really does impart credibility.
I was there.
unidentified
I was there.
dan friesen
I helped him with those books.
jordan holmes
I also come through some other times, but whatever.
dan friesen
I'm not going to talk about that.
I find it incredibly fascinating that Edgar Cayce is like this...
Disease that spreads through New Age communities.
It's kind of like that Jerusalem Syndrome thing where some people go to Jerusalem and they end up thinking that they're Jesus.
It's just something.
It's a phenomenon that happens.
People don't quite understand exactly why.
People who are kind of unhinged and maybe a little bit ambitious, they get involved in the New Age stuff, they interact with his material a little bit, read some of his stuff, and then they start to think they are him.
You've got this Kevin Moore who's pretending that he has Edgar Cayce talking through him.
In the same way David Wilcox has made a career off saying that he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce.
It's just this frequent thing where these con artists use him in order to reinforce and add legitimacy to their scams.
jordan holmes
It's almost like they are being conned from beyond the grave.
dan friesen
If there is any metaphysical thing going on here, I would not doubt that it is Edgar Cayce fucking with Edgar Cayce.
jordan holmes
If he had a ghost, that ghost would be conning people left and right.
And he would do it in the same way, via flattery.
So maybe he is channeling Edgar Cayce, and Cayce is fucking with him.
Like, hey man, you're so great.
I love it.
You're the best channeler ever.
You're so good at it.
dan friesen
I don't know.
So, um...
This dude is a grade-A scammer.
His history shows a real pattern of using New Age beliefs and spiritualism as a business model.
He runs a psychic hotline, and he's tried to establish himself as a super important medium who's channeling critical messages for humanity coming from Edgar Cayce, as well as other less recognizably named entities.
When it suited his purpose, he's been perfectly willing to unquestionably platform Joanne Richards and Carrie Cassidy and allow them to spread misinformation about Mark Richards, even going out of his way to help them deflect from the criticism that Mark is a murderer.
And now that's all changed, and he's a heroic crusader who's going to stand up for fact-based investigators in the New Age world and expose Mark, Joanne, and Carrie.
I'm sure you can see how this feels like it's complete bullshit.
His motivation can't be that he's offended by what they're saying because he's been a part of saying literally the same things.
He can't be interested in defending rigorously researched and fact-based investigations in alternative communities because Mark Richards being a secret space captain has exactly as much proof attached to it as him channeling Edgar Cayce.
Something is up here, and I think I might have accidentally stumbled onto a clue as to what it is.
Obviously, I can't prove anything, but I have a bit of suspicion that Kevin Moore is not making this documentary out of a concern for the truth, nor even out of just a sincere desire to tell this completely insane and awesome story of Mark Richards.
jordan holmes
Is he even making the documentary?
dan friesen
He is.
jordan holmes
Okay.
dan friesen
As best I can tell.
I mean, he made a trailer.
unidentified
Yeah, well, Fyre Festival made a trailer.
kevin moore
That's a good point.
dan friesen
I believe that he's motivated by jealousy.
When Kevin interviewed Rashmi, the psychic hotline employee who can talk to Jesus and Buddha, he brings up a particular lament that I found very interesting.
kevin moore
I mean, obviously, you know, the hard thing about this type of work as well.
Well, I say hard.
You know, you may answer it quite differently.
But for myself, you know, doing a show like I do with what I call amazing guests like yourself coming on.
jordan holmes
What I call it.
kevin moore
It really is.
It's heart-wrenching that we just can't get on bigger networks, that the mainstreams feel that these type of shows are not audience-driving traffic.
And it's such a shame, because I think, Pete, that there is an awakening.
People are ready.
dan friesen
So, you can kind of see an expression of, I deserve to be bigger than I am.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
And it's just bullshit that we can't get on bigger networks.
I have great guests.
I do this show.
jordan holmes
I think I'm pretty great, as evidenced by my later channeling work.
dan friesen
Kevin Moore's YouTube channel, his primary means of distributing his material, has 63,000 subscribers, which I can see is nothing to sneeze at.
jordan holmes
No!
dan friesen
That's nothing to sneeze at.
jordan holmes
That's a lot!
dan friesen
Project Camelot.
jordan holmes
More than we have.
dan friesen
Totally.
jordan holmes
Do we even have a YouTube page?
dan friesen
We do, but I haven't posted on it in a very long time.
Project Camelot has approximately 230,000 subscribers, almost four times Kevin's audience.
Some of his videos get a few thousand views, but some of them, like an interview about robots that he did three weeks ago, currently sits at 834 views.
His 2018 interview with Carrie Cassidy has over 32,000 views, well over the average on his channel.
You can clearly see that it drives traffic.
Project Camelot is a larger entity and a bigger thing than him.
Kevin recently did an Indiegogo campaign to make a documentary about how channelers are totally real, which seems kind of like it's across purposes for someone who runs a psychic hotline.
Kind of makes that documentary feel like it's a bit of an extended commercial, but whatever.
In the time that the campaign was active, it eclipsed its goal of reaching $15,000, ending up with just a little bit over $27,000.
But what I find suspicious is that this total came from only 82 donors, which is an average of about 300 per person.
There are red flags all over this crowdfunding campaign, but I won't bore you with the numbers.
I did some weird math, and some of it just does not make sense.
There's all kinds of people who didn't claim reward tier prizes or anything.
So that leads me to believe that a lot of them were lower donations than the lowest tier.
And the lowest tier is $25.
So there's probably a lot of them who were below $25.
jordan holmes
So we have $80 below $25 and $20,000.
dan friesen
He has 29 prizes.
Out of those 82 people that were actually claimed.
jordan holmes
Yeah, and two guys got them all.
Right.
dan friesen
So anyway, it's very strange.
And there's a lot of reasons to have...
Some suspicion about what's going on there.
But no matter what the case is, even if everything is above board, that's still only 82 people who want him to make his documentary.
Compare that to Carrie's failed Indiegogo from 2015, where she was trying to raise $100,000 to start a TV network.
jordan holmes
Love you, Carrie.
Keep shooting for the stars.
dan friesen
That one might have failed largely due to pure hubris.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
But she had 189 people donate, over twice what Kevin pulled in.
Strangely, Kevin's also running a GoFundMe campaign to get his two documentaries made, the Mark Richards one and the one about channelers.
And to launch, he also wants to launch the International Spiritual News Network.
So he also wants a TV network.
The campaign on GoFundMe has only raised 527 pounds from 19 donors in five months.
I'm not trying to suggest that Kevin is getting dark money or anything like that.
That's nonsense.
I'm suggesting that it looks very possible that the donations he got from his Indiegogo campaign came from a sponsor, most likely Ozark Mountain Publishing, a New Age book distributor that Kevin has acknowledged as a sponsor regularly in the past and who runs ads on his show.
It seems entirely possible that he launched the crowdfunding for his documentaries, no one was interested, and his sponsor stepped in to create the appearance of demand.
I have a strong suspicion that Kevin Moore is not motivated by preserving truth.
Everything I've seen gives me the strong indication that a much more likely explanation for all of this is that Kevin wants to take over Carrie Cassidy's share of the new age bullshit market.
This feels like the equivalent of a situation where a mobster is extorting a store owner who is then killed by another way worse mobster.
Yeah, sure.
You got rid of the mobster extorting the store owner, but you only did that so you could prey on that store owner yourself.
jordan holmes
Yeah, so Kevin is Marley.
Yeah.
dan friesen
Yeah.
unidentified
At least that's the sense I get.
dan friesen
Yeah.
unidentified
Or a British guy who can channel Edgar Cayce and has been running an exorbitantly priced psychic hotline for the better part of a decade, sincerely cares about misinformation being spread in the New Age community, even though he was an active participant in spreading the exact same misinformation and seemed to support Cary Caskey spreading it less than a year ago.
dan friesen
Right.
unidentified
And I guess you just got to decide for yourself.
jordan holmes
Equally possible explanations.
I am dead center.
50 on one side, 50 on the other side, Dan.
dan friesen
Uh-huh.
I feel like...
One of the main things that I come away from all this with is, like, get the fuck out of here, Kevin.
jordan holmes
Yeah, get the fuck out of here, Kevin.
dan friesen
We are the ones who get the critique carried.
jordan holmes
Except we didn't look into your marriage status, asshole.
At least we're better than that.
dan friesen
Like to laugh at Carrie and enjoy and have fun, and then whenever she says things that are like, uh-oh, that sounds Nazi-ish, we complain and condemn her for that.
But there's no, like, this is such bullshit for one reason, one reason only.
Like, even the very idea of what he's doing is so stupid.
Because...
There's no way that you're going to make this documentary about Mark Richards and then people are going to be like, oh my god, Project Camelot is bullshit.
We're going to go and be smart now.
jordan holmes
And head over to a channeler.
dan friesen
It's not going to happen.
You're not going to turn people into like...
People who actually read books at that point.
unidentified
Right.
dan friesen
What you're going to do is make a vacuum in their life.
Whatever guru vacuum is there, and you're hoping that enough of them will come over to you that'll fill that gap there.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
It's kind of a bummer, but at the same time, I'm fascinated by, like, you know...
jordan holmes
Just bringing those channeling videos into my life was a delight, Dan.
Thank you.
dan friesen
I mean, if you don't look into any of this stuff, like I didn't initially, you just see this documentary for this, or this trailer for the documentary, and you're like, fuck yes!
jordan holmes
Yeah, I totally thought that.
And I wasn't going to look into it.
dan friesen
You run the very serious risk of endorsing someone because you like the idea of this documentary instead of looking at what's going on here and realizing he runs a psychic hotline and he thinks he can channel entities and he's just as bad, if not worse.
I think he's absolutely worse than Carrie, at least for that channeling hotline.
The idea that he runs a $100 an hour minimum psychic hotline is crazy.
Like, that to me is funneling your audience towards something so much more destructive than just the stupid ideas that Carrie pimps.
And then maybe her hilarious album, you know?
jordan holmes
Oh, I want to listen to that album again.
He can't possibly make that much money from the Psychic Hotline, right?
dan friesen
I assume not.
jordan holmes
He can't possibly make that much money.
dan friesen
I don't know, but it doesn't matter to me.
jordan holmes
That's insane.
dan friesen
If he doesn't make a lot of money off it, it's not for lack of trying.
jordan holmes
Right, that's true.
dan friesen
And it's not anything that he's not doing.
unidentified
Right.
dan friesen
Like, he's doing everything exactly as he needs to do it to be a big pile of shit making a...
jordan holmes
Right, so you're just ruining a small business owner's life, Dan.
That's what you're doing right now.
He's an entrepreneur.
He's trying to build something from the ground up.
dan friesen
So you've been on a bit of a ride.
What are your thoughts?
I mean, I think that you probably agree with me.
I don't want to put those words in your mouth, but you've been nodding.
jordan holmes
That he's a scammer and full of shit?
Yeah, of course.
I mean, come on.
Anybody...
God, those channeling videos.
dan friesen
I wanted to play so many more of them, but they're so long.
They mean nothing.
jordan holmes
I swear to you, even if it was proven factually correct that he was channeling, I'd still be out on that dude, because fuck that.
Fuck those videos.
You're just bad at it.
Just say you're bad at channeling.
dan friesen
Do you feel similarly weirdly defensive?
jordan holmes
About Carrie?
dan friesen
Yeah.
jordan holmes
No, because Carrie was real mad in that clip of the interview that you played with her and him whenever he just brought up...
The fact that Mark Richards murdered somebody.
And she just cut him off over and over and over again.
I thought that was rude.
dan friesen
I don't think...
Well, she's sweary-carry.
She's kind of rude.
jordan holmes
She is kind of rude.
dan friesen
But she's our rude.
She's our friend.
What?
jordan holmes
See, this is the difference between you getting so deep into this, listening to hours upon hours upon hours of...
Swear you carry on Project Camelot.
And then me just hearing what you show me.
I don't develop the same emotional connection.
dan friesen
But I also think, okay, that's fine.
And I don't actually have that much of an emotional connection.
jordan holmes
Don't step it back now.
Own it.
dan friesen
Feel your feelings, Dan.
jordan holmes
Nobody's judging you.
dan friesen
I don't have those feelings, but I do feel protective a little bit.
But one of the big reasons is that I see much more craft.
On Kevin's part.
I see much more malice and intent on his part.
What he wants to do with this stuff doesn't strike me as positive.
And he also seems like he's probably a lot more enterprising and a lot more capable.
Carrie has probably gotten to the height that she can ever get to.
She made a...
Like a pilot for a TV, like a true TV show.
And then she does these YouTube videos where everything glitches all the time and dogs bark in the background and she talks to people who lie to her about space.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
There's a certain charm to that in as much as I don't feel worried about it.
jordan holmes
You want some wide-eyed innocence and a healthy dose of incompetence.
dan friesen
I don't necessarily even think that it's innocent.
Don't put that word in my mouth.
But it does seem impotent.
It seems like...
It can't spiral out of control that much further.
jordan holmes
Right, right.
dan friesen
You know, I do think he could.
I think he could.
Carrie doesn't put videos out of herself fucking channeling people.
jordan holmes
Right, right.
That's true.
dan friesen
That is presumptuous.
jordan holmes
See, on the other hand...
dan friesen
It's bold.
Someone who could put multiple videos of themselves out...
Channeling things?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen
I don't know what you're capable of.
jordan holmes
Right.
I think, on the other hand, he seems most likely to overreach and then implode.
dan friesen
Do you know what I'm saying?
I think he is with this documentary.
jordan holmes
Well, yeah, of course.
dan friesen
Because, I mean, the people who like Project Camelot are not going to...
You know, Carrie's mounting a defense against him.
And, you know, I don't think...
No matter what he...
That's the other thing.
jordan holmes
Yeah.
dan friesen
That's the other thing about why this is fucking stupid.
If you intend to cast a light on these misinformation parts of the space community or whatever, what the fuck are you doing this for?
Quite honestly, you're going to make this documentary and then everyone is going to think you're a deep state operative or whatever.
It's a world that has built-in defenses against any kind of truth-telling.
And you know that.
You're a part of that fucking world.
You know that that's the end result of this.
So that means, to me, That being presented as his motive for this is a little suspicious.
jordan holmes
Yeah, especially since...
Ostensibly, the people that he would be marketing this documentary to would be people who are interested in...
Finding out that Captain Mark Richards is a fucking murderer.
unidentified
Right.
jordan holmes
And all of the details behind that.
And that type of person isn't going to go, ha ha ha, you got her.
Now, let's go over and see what your psychic has to say.
dan friesen
I don't know.
I'm going to need to sit with the feelings a little bit longer to really know where the feeling comes from.
But there is definite...
jordan holmes
Smash cut, Dan is married to Carrie in two years.
dan friesen
It's not going to happen.
I don't date long distance.
Space.
Look, I don't know.
I mean, the feeling that I...
It's not a defense of Carrie for her own sake.
It's a defense based on what the offense is.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
And the offense is bullshit.
Anybody being the target of something like this, I would probably be like, this doesn't seem sincere.
jordan holmes
Right.
dan friesen
No matter what.
I don't know.
It is always kind of funny, the idea of, like, intersect battles in space communities and stuff like that.
We could take an external view and be like, all right, all right.
But if I do want to see one survive, it's obviously Project Camelot.
jordan holmes
Oh, of course.
dan friesen
There's much funnier territory there.
So, sorry, Kevin.
I'll probably still watch your documentary, but I'm going to stream it illegally.
unidentified
Yeah.
jordan holmes
I'm not giving you a dime, asshole.
dan friesen
Fuck off!
Stop trying to be an asshole to our friends over at Project Camel.
jordan holmes
Although I will give you a call and see what Jesus is up to, but I need a discount.
dan friesen
Yeah.
So anyway, we'll be back on Friday with a new episode.
jordan holmes
Indeed we will.
dan friesen
That actually is about Alex Jones.
unidentified
Yeah.
dan friesen
But this has been a fun diversion.
jordan holmes
It's been fantastic.
dan friesen
Thank you.
We have a website.
jordan holmes
We do have a website.
It's knowledgefight.com.
dan friesen
You can also get a psychic reading on knowledgefight.com.
jordan holmes
You cannot get a psychic reading.
dan friesen
$700 an hour.
I will channel the dog of beans.
jordan holmes
Don't say that.
dan friesen
And they will give you investment advice.
The capitalist dog aliens will tell you about the space stock market.
jordan holmes
Are we sure they're any good at it?
dan friesen
Space stocks.
jordan holmes
Space stocks.
Yeah, you could do that or you could get a shirt or go to the Patreon page.
dan friesen
We've got to shut the fuck up right now because space stocks is a perfect idea for us.
How would anyone ever confirm or deny the value going up or down?
You have complete control of the narrative.
I predict someone will eventually try and pull this game like that.
jordan holmes
Oh, for sure.
dan friesen
Oh, what about like resource futures in like asteroids?
I thought that might already exist.
jordan holmes
No, that one's already been done.
unidentified
That one probably already exists.
jordan holmes
That one probably got done in the 20s.
dan friesen
Yeah, probably.
jordan holmes
Asimov was writing about mining asteroids back then.
For sure somebody bought that hook, line, and sinker.
dan friesen
But like futures?
Trading?
Yeah.
All right.
Anyway, we have Twitter.
You could trade.
It is.
jordan holmes
At Knowledge Fight.
And I'm at GoToBetJordan.
dan friesen
Yep.
We're also on Facebook.
jordan holmes
We are on Facebook.
What else do we do?
dan friesen
iTunes.
jordan holmes
We are on iTunes.
And many other podcasting apps, we are told.
dan friesen
Yes.
Also, as we end this, I gotta say, Jordan.
jordan holmes
What do you gotta say?
dan friesen
I have to say.
jordan holmes
What do you gotta say?
dan friesen
The archaeologist feline space contessa.
jordan holmes
Gorgeous.
dan friesen
Has never killed anybody.
jordan holmes
We do not know that.
dan friesen
I can tell you that my spirit resonates that she has never killed anybody.
jordan holmes
I'm gonna channel her.
dan friesen
Just done archaeological digs trying to figure out cat aliens passed on Earth.
jordan holmes
Gonna channel her.
dan friesen
And it's a respectable goal and it contributes to the totality of information in the universe and I respect that she's never killed anybody.
jordan holmes
That's a good call.
dan friesen
One guy who technically probably has.
is Alex Jones.
alex jones
Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
unidentified
Thanks for holding.
Hello, Alex.
I'm a first-time caller.
joanne richards
I'm a huge fan.
unidentified
I love your work.
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