Today, Dan and Jordan continue their investigation into how Alex Jones behaved in the immediate aftermath of Sandy Hook. In this installment, Alex has had a few days to regroup after the shock of dealing with the breaking news while on air. Will that affect how he carries himself?
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a huge fan. | |
| I love your work. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| Hey, everybody. | ||
| Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. | ||
| I'm Dan. | ||
| I'm Jordan. | ||
| We're a couple dudes like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. | ||
| Oh, indeed we are, Dan. | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| What was the longest you've had to go without hot water? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I can't imagine it's been long. | ||
| I mean, I've been in the woods for a couple days and stuff like that, like camping and stuff like that. | ||
| But even those times, I think, you know, you could go a ways away and find a shower hut or something like that. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right, right, right. | |
| Somewhere. | ||
| Yeah, they usually have those in a campsite. | ||
| I'm not talking about going to a KOA. | ||
| I mean, like camping in the wood woods. | ||
| Oh, in the wood woods. | ||
| Yeah, but I still think maybe a day. | ||
| Maybe? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I've never camped in the woods. | ||
| No? | ||
| No. | ||
| You gotta do it. | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| Gotta do it! | ||
| No, it's scary out there. | ||
| So fun. | ||
| KOA! | ||
| It's like living in a hotel, but you bring your own room. | ||
| That's garbage. | ||
| One time, so every year for the summer, my parents and I, and my brother, we would drive across country to visit our relatives in California, and my parents would never pay for hotels, so along the way we'd have to camp. | ||
| That's fun. | ||
| That's kind of fun. | ||
| Sometimes you'd be at a national park and stuff like that, and that was great. | ||
| But sometimes we would end up at KOA. | ||
| Just on the side of the road. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We were at one, and we were like, I was just like, I wanted a fucking hotel, because it had been like... | ||
| Two days we've been on the road or so, and I'm just fucking tired of these campsites. | ||
| And so we go to a KOA place, and my dad's all, like, setting up the tent, and he's all excited about, like, ah, this is great, isn't it? | ||
| Oh, man, he's the dad from Calvin and Hobbes. | ||
| There is a little bit of that streak. | ||
| But he's excited about the, like, nailing in the stakes and the tent and stuff. | ||
| And I point over to just behind some bushes, and I'm like, Dad, that is a shopping mall. | ||
|
unidentified
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We are feet away from a shopping mall. | |
| This is not camping. | ||
| He got really sour about that. | ||
| Yeah, that kind of takes the wind out of your sails there. | ||
| Yeah, but then another time we were at an actual out-in-the-woods-woods kind of camp place, and a moose wandered into the campground. | ||
| Oh, that's intense. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's scarier than you think. | ||
| Yeah, no, absolutely. | ||
| They're big. | ||
| They're fucking huge! | ||
| They're a lot bigger than you think. | ||
| Yeah, they're well, like, their shoulders are well above your height, right? | ||
| Everybody, well, especially at that age, I was probably like 12 or something. | ||
| Everybody likes to think of, like, Bullwinkle and stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Real moose. | ||
| Anyway, it's been, I don't think I've gone a long time without hot water. | ||
| It's been since Monday, and it won't be until Friday for me. | ||
| Wait, let me walk that back. | ||
| I live in an apartment now with very inconsistent hot water. | ||
| So, I think I kind of have been living for two years without hot water. | ||
| At least not on demand. | ||
| Yeah, in my old place, there were plenty of winters where, A, the heat entirely wouldn't work. | ||
| For me, it was even in fall and summer. | ||
| It's not about the pipes. | ||
| It's just about this stupid building. | ||
| That's why I've got to move. | ||
| Anyway, I know a lot about Alex Jones. | ||
| And I know a lot about cold water. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Especially in the next few days. | |
| But I don't know anything about Alex Jones. | ||
| And that is our show, our fun. | ||
| We talk about water and Alex Jones. | ||
| That's what we do. | ||
| We've got an episode to do here today. | ||
| I think it'll be some fun. | ||
| But before we get to it, gotta give a shout-out to some new folks who've signed up and are supporting the show. | ||
| So first of all, I'd like to say thank you to Jose. | ||
| You're now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Jose. | ||
| Thank you very much, Jose. | ||
| Next, Phantom T. You're now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Phantom T. Thank you very much, Phantom T. That sounds like a partner for Master P. It could be, yeah. | ||
| It could have been one of the No Limits soldiers smoking on their dojo. | ||
| That would have been great. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Also, Nathan. | ||
| Not so much of a good rap name, but a great name nonetheless. | ||
| Famous. | ||
| Hot dogs. | ||
| Nathan, thank you for your policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much, Nathan. | ||
| Next, Ben, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much, Ben. | ||
| Finally, I'd like to say thank you to somebody who elevated on a little bit of a higher level, and we appreciate it oh so very much. | ||
| So, Jay, you are now a technocrat. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Four stars. | ||
| Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant. | ||
| Someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. | ||
| Daddy Shark. | ||
| Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent. | ||
| He's a loser little titty baby. | ||
| I don't want to hate black people. | ||
| I renounce Jesus Christ! | ||
| Thank you so much, Jay. | ||
| Thank you very much, Jay. | ||
| If you're out there listening and you're thinking, hey, I'd like to support this show, these guys are pretty alright in my book. | ||
| They admit when they don't know what a rock or a bark is. | ||
| God damn it, you're killing me with this. | ||
| Hey, I made mistakes too. | ||
| I'm just poking you where you tender. | ||
| You can do that. | ||
| You can support us by going to knowledgefight.com, clicking that button that says support the show. | ||
| We would appreciate it. | ||
| Please do. | ||
| So, Jordan, on our last episode, we started our Sandy Hook investigation, and I warned you that there was a decent chance I was just going to barrel. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I have. | ||
| Today we're going to be going over December 16th, 2012, and that is because the 15th was a Saturday, Alex had no show. | ||
| So he had some time to regroup, figure out what his narrative was going to be, because I know that... | ||
| It would be wrong to say anything too definitive, but you saw a lot of uh-oh on Wednesday's episode. | ||
| A lot of trying to figure out where he was going to land on things. | ||
| It was all the arrows pointing to Bugs Bunny's hole the whole time, yeah. | ||
| And nothing helps resolve that sort of thing like a day off. | ||
| So I assumed that, you know, the Sunday show, we're going to come in, he's going to have his narrative together. | ||
| And we'll find out if that's the case here on today's episode. | ||
| I opted not to do a present day... | ||
| I just assumed he did a Bernie Sanders impression all day. | ||
| Bernie announced, so of course he's going to. | ||
| I don't really have a whole lot of intellectual curiosity or even narrative puncturing curiosity about whatever he's saying now. | ||
| Like, if Roger actually goes to jail early, we might check in. | ||
| Oh, that'd be fun. | ||
| Or, you know, we'll check in down the line. | ||
| I'm not saying I'm abandoning the present, but it just does not hold as much interest or priority to me as some of these other things. | ||
| And we are not, or we cannot allow ourselves to be slaves to the whim. | ||
| Of whatever's happening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, like, we can't be following in his wake if we want to do the show that we want to do. | ||
| We're not a monster of the week show, man. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| We don't do that. | ||
| We're not X-Files. | ||
| We will do present day episodes eventually. | ||
| Maybe even next week. | ||
| It's entirely possible. | ||
| But this is what I'm so much more interested in right now. | ||
| And we'll be... | ||
| Where I spend more of my time. | ||
| We're breaking bad. | ||
| We're in bottle episode territory. | ||
| Bottle month. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just all this Sandy Hook stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, boy. | |
| And so, I gave this caveat at the beginning of Wednesday's episode that that episode wasn't too bad. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I'll say that I don't think that this one is even too bad. | ||
|
unidentified
|
God. | |
| I don't think he's gotten too bad yet. | ||
| He's bad, but he's not too bad. | ||
| So don't expect him to be throwing around anything that will be... | ||
| I don't know what is exactly something that would be traumatic for someone to hear. | ||
| But I don't think he gets into any of that territory here on this show. | ||
| So we're safe in terms of disgust. | ||
| This is almost going to make the hammer drop even more horrific. | ||
| I think that what we find in this episode makes it so much more depressing that we know where it ends up. | ||
| Oh no! | ||
| So... | ||
| Anyway, in this first clip, we get where Alex is starting off the show. | ||
| And by this point, they've found out that it is Adam Lanza who was the perpetrator of the shooting. | ||
| Because by Sunday, a lot of information has come out. | ||
| There's reporting on it. | ||
| And so here's Alex's take on it and what he thinks is the most important piece. | ||
| Well, let's be clear here, ladies and gentlemen. | ||
| Wild horses. | ||
| Could not pull me away on this Sunday. | ||
| I like that he said that as if he had time-traveled and listened to our episode, where I was like, I'm sure he wished he didn't show up that day. | ||
| Open Sunday show, like, wild horses couldn't keep me for this, Dan. | ||
| I almost heard him say Dan at the end of that. | ||
| Which doesn't speak much for my mental state. | ||
| Worldwide broadcast, thank you so much for joining us today. | ||
| And we are going to be here for the next two hours. | ||
| Obviously, Friday morning, we had the Connecticut mass shooting, 20 dead children, 7 dead adults. | ||
| We now have at least the mainstream media's image. | ||
| After blaming his brother and others, we have a mainstream media report on who supposedly did this. | ||
| And we're going to be breaking that down. | ||
| But today, I want to drill into... | ||
| Not just the people attacking the Second Amendment savagely and viciously right now, and the attacks that we're now seeing entered in legislation, but also via executive order that Obama's talking about outside of law restricting our guns. | ||
| I want to look at the psychology of the control freaks throughout history that always seek to disarm the people. | ||
| So this is what he's more interested in. | ||
| I think the supposedly the mainstream media is saying it's him. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think it's still on the cusp of being inappropriate. | ||
| I mean, I think it's probably inappropriate. | ||
| Oh, supposedly is inappropriate. | ||
| I don't think it's monstrous yet at this point. | ||
| I know that's the question we're going to have to keep coming back to is like, is this monstrous? | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I think because of the initial speculative, inaccurate reports that were coming out, I think to a certain extent, a day, a day and a half, two days later, you could still have, like, we might get more information on this and it might end up that this is wrong also. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But that's just a function of reporting and it being a developing story. | ||
| Not of a cover-up or anything like that, which is what he's sort of suggesting. | ||
| It's not as monstrous as William Happer leading a climate change panel. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| No, you're not happy about that. | ||
| He might have popped up. | ||
| I believe he popped up in my episode, I think. | ||
| I believe so. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I think that's not a good sign. | ||
| Yeah, I don't think that bodes well for the climate that is a change. | ||
|
unidentified
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No, it does not. | |
| Like I said, I think that that's still kind of like, meh. | ||
| I don't like the idea that he wants to spend most of the rest of his show talking about the psychology of gun grabbers. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That seems like the wrong use of time. | ||
| Could be. | ||
| It might be the wrong thing to focus on. | ||
| God, imagine if Obama had declared a national emergency in order to get gun laws passed. | ||
| Oh boy. | ||
| So, in this next clip, though... | ||
| You hear Alex say something that is very comforting at the beginning of the clip and then wander into very territory that doesn't inspire confidence. | ||
| But it starts pretty well. | ||
| If you believe the official story, and I tend to only because this fits in with the real, because there's been some stage ones that have even come out before, like Sirhan, Sirhan, and other events. | ||
| But when you have a real mass shooting like this, it's always the same thing. | ||
| Almost every case, it's a white male. | ||
| White, sometimes Hispanic or Asian, if you just want to profile it from a law enforcement perspective. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Just almost unheard of to have a black mass shooter for whatever reason. | ||
| Just profiling here. | ||
| DC shooter, buddy. | ||
| Caucasian, 25, 18, 25. Generally even closer to 20. And normally they are mentally ill. | ||
| They've normally been in psychiatric care. | ||
| A lot of times it is something they've dealt with their whole life. | ||
| Autism, of course, has gone from 1 in 25,000 30 years ago to 1 in 58 now, according to the British Medical Journal and the medical journals here in the United States. | ||
| We have similar numbers to what they have in England. | ||
| You can debate whether it's 1 in 37 or 1 in 120, but the numbers globally in the Western world are settling in at about 1 in 58. This is just a name of all sorts of people brain damaged in utero from different chemicals and things that are in the food chain. | ||
| And then things that they also get once they're born. | ||
| And, of course, Nirvana's album. | ||
| And it's kind of like a selective lobotomy. | ||
| So I don't like that characterization of people who are on the autism spectrum, first of all. | ||
| And then, second of all, that clip is, to me, the path of Alex Jones. | ||
| Because it starts with, if you believe the official story, and I tend to. | ||
| Which is good. | ||
| Which doesn't sound accurate, though. | ||
| It's not great. | ||
| That is not a good reporting, but at least he is indicating that I think this might be real. | ||
| But then when he starts giving his reasons for why he thinks it might be real, he's like, because of vaccines, turning everyone into autistic people who are brain damaged and then go kill people. | ||
| That's not great. | ||
| No, the path is very bad. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The beginning point is, it's right there close to acceptable. | ||
| He just doesn't know where to end a thought. | ||
| Yeah, if he just ended it with... | ||
| I think I believe the official story on this. | ||
| I tend to believe the official story, period. | ||
| New thought. | ||
| That would be fine. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| And that sort of same mentality carries on into this next clip. | ||
| That same path, that same weird journey from a defensible place into a real not defensible place. | ||
| It was actually knock. | ||
| First off, I just want to extend my condolences to the families. | ||
| And the survivors from the tragic Connecticut shooting that happened Friday morning. | ||
| Good on you. | ||
| I myself have three children, one of them a four-year-old girl. | ||
| And we were all very depressed and very upset up here on Friday because I think almost the whole crew has children and most of us have young children. | ||
| And when you see a robot, because that's what this guy was like. | ||
| And it's an incredible, if you had to profile a subset of people that keep doing these things, even though mass shootings are flat in the last 20 years, about the same every year, this year's actually been worse than the last decade or so, statistically, but overall, it's flat. | ||
| You can pull those numbers up. | ||
| Did you? | ||
| And the reason that it's gone up is because of all these people on these psych meds. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Which is what the argument he's making there. | ||
| Sure, it has to be. | ||
| So now you still really do like to see him offer condolences to the families. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because that does indicate that he does know that this is real. | ||
| He knows. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Everybody, everybody at Infowars knows. | ||
| He wouldn't behave this way if there wasn't an awareness on some level that, like... | ||
| Whatever I end up saying eventually, I don't know how much awareness he has of even that, but no matter where the end of this road is, the beginning of the road is awareness that this is real. | ||
| And that's good, but also way worse. | ||
| Yeah, it makes the eventual Infowars harassment of these people so much more dirty, so much more... | ||
| Intentional and disgusting. | ||
| In that he can empathize and he can respect that, holy shit, these mass shootings are entirely possible, they are increasing, and my children are at risk. | ||
| Which, if that's where you gotta go to understand it, I get it. | ||
| It's wrong. | ||
| Well, it's like an elementary way to empathize, but if you get there, you get there. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| To some extent. | ||
| I mean, it's kind of, it's a little bit like that, you know, I have three daughters, so I understand what it's like when women are provoked, and you're like, that's not you! | ||
| I agree with you, but when we're dealing with Alex Jones, that's a positive sign. | ||
| This is a huge win! | ||
| But again, it's a huge loss, because it does indicate that when he does start saying those things later, it's built on a foundation of him absolutely knowing that this is real, and he's bummed out about it. | ||
| That's another question. | ||
| Do we know exactly the date that he... | ||
| I know we have the clip of him saying... | ||
| But that was from 2015. | ||
| Right, exactly. | ||
| So this is... | ||
| I mean, that is entirely a... | ||
| That's three years later. | ||
| Yeah, it could... | ||
| This is not an excuse. | ||
| No. | ||
| By any means, but it is a sort of recency bias there with him right here, where he is now affected emotionally by it. | ||
| And then later on, because he doesn't give a fuck anymore, because he... | ||
| Like all of us, has become somewhat desensitized. | ||
| Possibly. | ||
| Possibly. | ||
| Or it could be preemptive justification for his only wanting to talk about guns. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because that makes him talking about guns and how they want to grab them and all that stuff a little more palatable because he's at the same time recognizing the horrible tragedy that these families and survivors have had to go through. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| So that's kind of the sugar that helps the pill go down or whatever. | ||
| So there's, again... | ||
| We're speculating. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| It's almost impossible to know exactly what is going through his mind, but these are some of the things you kind of think might be going through his mind when you deal with someone like this, an inveterate liar. | ||
| It's like a small broken ring in the chainmail, you know, of like... | ||
| This guy is a psychopath, but for one brief second you can see that missing scale in the underbelly of Smaug, you know? | ||
| And the problem, too, is that we know that he does eventually say it's fake. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I know that he said it before that clip that we have from 2015. | ||
| He has to. | ||
| And I'm sure he says it a bunch, but I don't know when he does. | ||
| I don't believe, based on our last episode, I don't believe the story that, like... | ||
| all these nefarious weirdos like Wolfgang Helbig came along and convinced him it was fake. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
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He was already ready to believe it the day, like the minute after. | |
| For sure. | ||
| So that kind of, it loses a little bit of its credence to me. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
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But I still don't know what the path is. | |
| And there's a real decent chance, like we speculated on the last episode, that he needed those sorts of people to give him the cover to make the arguments that he intrinsically wanted to make. | ||
| Maybe because they're better for traffic to the website. | ||
| Maybe because they're better as a way to reinforce his they-want-your-guns narratives. | ||
| Any of those things are possible, but I'm excited to see the... | ||
| Because I bet it's not as soon as we think. | ||
| You know why? | ||
| This investigation might last until 2015. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, it won't. | |
| I bet it's in early 2013. | ||
| And my reasoning for that is that we listened to the December 21st, 2012 episode for one of our... | ||
| Past time travel episodes. | ||
| That's true! | ||
| And he talks to David Icke a bunch, and they don't talk about Sandy Hook really all that much, from what I recall. | ||
| And then there's Christmas. | ||
| After that, he's got to take a couple days off probably for Christmas, you assume. | ||
| The end of the year, I bet he doesn't really... | ||
| Bear down into this until early 2013. | ||
| But we'll see. | ||
| That's my prediction for right now. | ||
| I really don't like him bringing up Sirhan Sirhan like Robert Kennedy wouldn't be his greatest mortal enemy there's ever been. | ||
| He does do a lot of that, repurposing villains and allies from history into different... | ||
| He recasts them however he sees fit. | ||
| Yeah, for his purposes he should be like, the greatest thing that ever happened to this country was Sirhan Sirhan murdering the eventual... | ||
| True president. | ||
| There's an example of that that's super egregious that will be on our next episode. | ||
| We'll get to that when we get to it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| For now, Alex wants to make the argument. | ||
| He wants to talk mostly about guns. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| And in this next clip, he's going to use some sources that I think might be a little biased on the issue to make the argument that all cultures over time that are authoritarian in nature, they want to take your guns. | ||
| And they will stage crises in order to do it. | ||
| That was the first thing Caesar did. | ||
| But here's the most important thing I want to tell you. | ||
| Should have taken knives. | ||
| There is a blueprint that has been followed in Soviet Russia, in Nazi Germany, in Communist China, in Japan, in Australia, in New Zealand, in England, in Germany. | ||
| It has been followed in Brazil. | ||
| It has been followed in... | ||
| Again, there's been documentaries made about this. | ||
| The NRA has written books. | ||
| The Jews, the Preservation of Firearms Ownership has written books on the subject. | ||
| I've studied it. | ||
| Have you? | ||
| And they always use school shootings or mall shootings in every case for the media to say, aren't you for the children? | ||
| This wouldn't have happened if we didn't have semi-auto handguns and rifles. | ||
| And then they ban the handguns and rifles. | ||
| And then they register all the other guns. | ||
| And then they have a mass shooting where somebody uses a bolt action, and then they ban those. | ||
| And that's how it works. | ||
| That's not how it works. | ||
| All of those countries have very different histories with gun laws, and they all have come to different places. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And from a gun law perspective, that their national sovereignty has led them to. | ||
| Ah, no, that's globalism. | ||
| First Amendment. | ||
| They all have... | ||
| Japan's First Amendment rights. | ||
| There are variable gun laws throughout even just the countries that he's naming. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| And historical countries that he's naming. | ||
|
unidentified
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Of course. | |
| It's a woeful oversimplification of things just to be like, they do this, they stage these attacks in order to take guns, but the reason he's doing that is because... | ||
| That is the story he'd like to tell about Sandy Hook, because it works more. | ||
| If he believes that every authoritarian country throughout the course of history has staged these attacks in order to erode gun rights and gun laws, and he believes that Obama is an aspiring authoritarian Hitler, then it follows from those two premises that the conclusion is that Sandy Hook is fake. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It has to. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Of course! | ||
| It has to be orchestrated by the government. | ||
| Whether it is real or not, it has to be orchestrated in order for the government to take our guns. | ||
| So, by extension, either it's fake and nobody died, or it's fake and everybody died, and it doesn't matter either way. | ||
| I don't think he's anywhere near actor stuff. | ||
| I will say that with quite a bit of certainty. | ||
| I don't think that. | ||
| I agree with you. | ||
| But he's very close to... | ||
| What he wants to say is basically... | ||
| They marched him in that building, Adam Lanza, and they had somebody else dressed like him who shot up everybody. | ||
| He was all drugged up. | ||
| They killed him in the school and then covered it up and stuff like that. | ||
| That's the version of it that seems like what he wants to tell. | ||
| The actor stuff I don't think is even on his mind. | ||
| Yeah, I 100% agree with you. | ||
| This is absolutely him saying that... | ||
| The government murdered people, not that the government faked the whole thing, like the moon landing, which we all, of course, know is fake. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It is very much... | ||
| I think it's way worse for him to say that... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know what's worse. | ||
| Because it denies the humanity. | ||
| Of these children, if you call them crisis actors, and it leads to them being threatened horribly. | ||
| This one might be a push on the evil scale. | ||
| On the evil scale? | ||
| Yeah, but there are slightly different evil. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just on a very basic level. | ||
| You take it to its constituent parts, and you see, like, what are you implying by this? | ||
| Yeah, one of them is saying that these people, because it's not just the government or anything, it would be someone who actually... | ||
| Did the killing of those children in that version of the conspiracy theory. | ||
| You're imagining some SWAT team member who is now a mass child murderer. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| So that's pretty awful to put on somebody. | ||
| And yeah, the other version is pretending that these kids and these parents and their grief isn't real. | ||
| So yeah, both of them are real bad. | ||
| I don't know where to plant my flag in terms of worse, but they're both real bad. | ||
| They're both tremendously and incredibly disrespectful and just absolutely psychopathic. | ||
| The only reason I bring that up at all is because I think it's important to recognize that there are different breeds of this Sandy Hook conspiracy. | ||
| And I think Alex has... | ||
| Trafficked in a lot of them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I don't think that that version that we know he ends up on in 2015 where he says it's completely synthetic staged with actors. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I don't think that's anywhere near his mind. | ||
| So some of that could have actually been the influence of those negative actors. | ||
| That's possible. | ||
| But he was ready to hear it based on him believing that like a SWAT team did it and then set up Adam Lambert. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| So, I don't know. | ||
| It's borderline like... | ||
| Like, you think that 9-11 is an inside job. | ||
| That's awful. | ||
| If you think that 9-11 didn't actually happen and the towers are still there, you're crazy. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| And I think that one of the things that interests me the most about this investigation and the unknowness of it, the sort of... | ||
| Great expanse we're walking into. | ||
| Unlike a KOA campsite, this is the actual woods. | ||
| There's no mall anywhere near here. | ||
| No, but what I enjoy about it a little bit is that nuance, that difference between, like, what is he actually saying? | ||
| Because I think if we understand that better, you understand the present better. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| There is something to be gained from that, even if it does seem like a little bit semantic. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because it is to an extent. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| It's a utilitarian moral argument that doesn't make any sense at the end of the day. | ||
| There's children there. | ||
| And even if we come to the conclusion that the actor stuff is stuff that invaded Alex's world, I still don't think that lets him off the hook for anything. | ||
| Absolutely not. | ||
| So even if we find that out, that's just an intellectual curiosity satisfied. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| As opposed to a, like, oh, that's an excuse. | ||
| Wolfgang Helbig told you there were actors. | ||
| Here's the end of our investigation. | ||
| Turns out Steve Pachenik is worse than we thought, which was the worst. | ||
| Still hasn't shown up. | ||
| Won't hear from him yet today either. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We'll see. | |
| I don't know. | ||
| It's interesting. | ||
| So Alex believes that everybody wants to take the guns. | ||
| They're all doing all this stuff. | ||
| Whether or not they plan to the event or any of that, or if it actually happened and now they're using it to take guns, they want to take guns. | ||
| And it's because of a UN treaty. | ||
| That's gone on. | ||
| Did they want to take guns from people? | ||
| Did not know that. | ||
| Also, the U.N. treaty they couldn't get last year is set. | ||
| And we've covered it. | ||
| We've written articles at InfoWars.com on it in detail. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| The U.N. treaty says no civilian ownership of firearms. | ||
| And that's not just my interpretation. | ||
| That's Forbes and Reuters. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| And because it says states can have guns, governments, but not individuals. | ||
| It says states have rights. | ||
| They play lawyer tricks, but then they later have addendums from the meetings of UNIDIR, that's the subset of the UN, the United Nations Small Arms Restriction Summit, UNIDIR. | ||
| I was in the UNIDIRian church for a while. | ||
| We don't mean individuals, we mean governments. | ||
| Because civilian ownership of firearms threatens the legitimate power monopoly of the state. | ||
| That's a quote. | ||
| That's a problem when he says a quote. | ||
| Oh no, who's that a quote from? | ||
| I'm not actually entirely sure. | ||
| I traced it down to a number of potential sources, but it's hard to tell exactly where that entered. | ||
| Charlemagne! | ||
| Alex is way off on this UN treaty he's going on about here. | ||
| The treaty that he has to be talking about is the Arms Trade Treaty, which wasn't actually passed until December 2014, but had been in the works since 2001. | ||
| Since the process began to try to get this thing signed, it's been the focus of a ton of patriot propaganda, specifically that it was the world government signaling that they were about to take everyone's guns. | ||
| The problem is that that treaty doesn't do anything of the sort. | ||
| The arms trade treaty, as the name might suggest, was about international illegal weapons trafficking. | ||
| That's very clearly and specifically what it was talking about. | ||
| Creating international agreements to put in place instruments to help limit clandestine black market arms trading, which I assume is something Alex might be into, or at least he should be, That sort of thing. | ||
| Illegal gun trade only hurts, well it hurts a whole lot more people, but it also hurts. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The people who are legal gun owners. | ||
| It was almost called the No More Iran-Contras Treaty. | ||
| He also knows a lot of those dudes, so that might be part of why he's... | ||
| Yeah, that could be an issue. | ||
| Uh-oh. | ||
| The NRA was doing great. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| Actually, Alex doesn't like the NRA at this point. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Yeah, he says that they're loyal opposition. | ||
| Like, in 2012. | ||
| He is not super into the NRA. | ||
| Until they hire Iran-Contra, folks. | ||
| But he likes the more extreme versions of it. | ||
| He likes the more extreme gun groups. | ||
| And actually, spoiler alert, Stuart Rhodes is on this episode from The Oath Keepers. | ||
| Stuart Rhodes shows up. | ||
| I almost said The Oath Keepers. | ||
| It's a very boring interview, so we're not going to actually listen to any of it. | ||
| He has a... | ||
| They don't actually talk about Sandy Hook really at all. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| They talk about threats to guns. | ||
| The treaty itself, this UN arms trade treaty, It goes so far out of its way to stress that individual states are not bound by this treaty to alter any of their domestic laws. | ||
| I'm going to read to you from page one, where it specifically reaffirms, quote, the sovereign right of any state to regulate and control conventional arms exclusively within its territory, pursuant to its own legal and constitutional system. | ||
| The treaty even gives countries a backdoor to leave the treaty at any point if they feel like it isn't something they want to be a part of. | ||
| As it says in Article 24, quote, each state party shall, in exercising its national sovereignty, have the right to withdraw from this treaty. | ||
| They even say that they don't have to give a reason to withdraw, and the only qualification that they even give is that if a country withdraws, that doesn't mean that they're immune from consequences for breaking the treaty, but only if they broke the treaty before they withdrew. | ||
| Okay, so this is the most toothless thing that you could imagine. | ||
| More or less. | ||
| That qualification is only to say that you can't withdraw from the treaty when you know you've been breaking it and get away with it. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| That's the only qualification that they even really get. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right, right. | |
| The only thing I can think of that Alex would be talking about here, other thing, other than this treaty, is the UN report that they released in July 2001 about a conference that was held about, quote, eradicating the illicit trade in small arms and light weapons. | ||
| Not surprisingly, this also doesn't say anything about eliminating citizens' rights to own guns, and actually includes this bit of language that I found a bit surprising. | ||
| We reaffirm, quote, Wait, | ||
| so does that actually, if I understand that correctly, does that mean that if you are, like, the Virgin Islands and you decide that you want to be your own country, illegal weapons sales are fine? | ||
| No, because this is that report, not the treaty itself. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| They're reaffirming the right. | ||
| I would say... | ||
| The language that they're using, it very, very reasonably could be assumed it means you can take up arms. | ||
| It kind of does mean that, right? | ||
| It's like American Revolution, totally fine, but if China is selling illegal weapons to, like, Russia, we gotta solve this problem. | ||
| They recognize the right of peoples to take legitimate action. | ||
| To realize their inalienable right of self-determination. | ||
| Yeah, that really seems like we're cool with revolutions, bro. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, they're straight up saying they explicitly recognize the right of occupied and colonialized people to take up arms against their oppressors. | ||
| Which is cool. | ||
| That's a weird thing for the UN to say. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| That is a weird thing for the UN to say. | ||
| But I guess if you came to a point where you could demonstrate or had a good argument that the United Nations in and of itself was making it so you had no self-determination or freedom or your inalienable rights, then by their own words, yeah, you should be able to... | ||
| Take up arms against them. | ||
| It kind of seems like the idea there is similar to, you know, like... | ||
| France recognizing the United States as a country immediately following the Declaration of Independence. | ||
| The UN will immediately recognize if you're a colonized state, if you're like Haiti, they'll be like, hey, fuck it. | ||
| We're cool with you. | ||
| I don't know if it would be immediate, but yeah. | ||
| Well, it wouldn't be immediate. | ||
| And I'm positive that hasn't been used well or anything like that, but it's in the language of the meeting, this report that they put out in July 2001. | ||
| The language in both that report and the eventual arms trade treaty does discuss the need for regulation and oversight of weapons importers and exporters, since that would be one of the only ways you'd be able to find illegal weapons tracks. | ||
| So I would bet anything that this is what Alex is exaggerating and lying about. | ||
| He views any attempt to deal with the problems created by the illegal use of guns as being an attack on his legal ownership of guns. | ||
| And that's a position that requires him to create straw men out of every perceived attack on guns, which unfortunately undermines whatever he wants his point to be. | ||
| Oh, and also the U.S. signed that treaty, but it's never been ratified, so we're not really even subject to it. | ||
| Great. | ||
| Ratification would have required two-thirds vote in the Senate, and since the treaty was signed in 2013, even though the Democrats had a 53-45 lead over the Republicans in that session of Congress, McConnell was still the minority leader, and there's no chance in hell Obama was going to be able to sway enough Republicans to get the treaty ratified. | ||
| God damn it. | ||
| McConnell is going to go down as one of history's great villains. | ||
| He has carved out a real spot for himself of evil. | ||
| He's done some real bad, bad stuff. | ||
| He is an awful human being. | ||
| Also, the quote, civilian ownership of any firearm in the United States threatens a legitimate power monopoly of the state is not a quote from the UN at all. | ||
| It's a quote from right-wing blogs and talking points put out by the NRA and the Heritage Foundation in order to undermine support for the treaty. | ||
| None of Alex's information reflects reality. | ||
| Nor does it come from the places he's asserting that it comes from. | ||
| And even that power monopoly of the state is such libertarian language that there's literally no way anyone except some sort of libertarian-leaning think tank or blog would phrase it that way. | ||
| So in this next clip, Alex, it's good that we've listened to a bunch of 2009 because we know a lot of those narratives that he was using in 2009. | ||
| And he's using them still in 2012, but sort of talking about them as if they're current, as opposed to being things we heard him talk about that were dated even in 2009. | ||
| Homeland security documents say gun owners, returning veterans, libertarians, conservatives, number one threat. | ||
| You've seen that in the news. | ||
| So the government's training that we, the real Americans of the enemy, while telling us they turn your guns in, we want to play nice. | ||
| And then while trying to blame us for some Prozac head, some video game head, going and doing this. | ||
| We need guns. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Weird. | ||
| Weird to have Mamas and the Papas behind that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Very weird. | ||
| On a mellow kind of throw to break about needing guns for the Prozac heads. | ||
| All the guns are fine. | ||
| The guns are fine. | ||
| Don't take any of those meds. | ||
| Don't take any meds. | ||
| Yikes! | ||
| He is gross. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| No. | ||
| But you were yelling, Mayak, that is just Mayak shit. | ||
| That's all Mayak. | ||
| That's all the stuff that we've deconstructed from 2009. | ||
| All of his perceived attacks on the patriot community and the militias and stuff like that. | ||
| You put it under a microscope, you look at it, and you see that he's just making that up. | ||
| And this is why these sorts of things that we do are important. | ||
| Because now that we have that as a piece of our awareness, and people understand, you can hear that. | ||
| And before, you could have thought, I don't know what he's talking about. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| These Homeland Security, all these people trying to demonize the patriots and stuff like that. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| We do know. | ||
| We know that's a lie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| It was a lie in 2009, and it's a fucking lie three years later. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| But he's pulling from these wells of his brain in order to justify the gun grabber paranoia narrative. | ||
| Right. | ||
| In order to... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| What would you call it? | ||
| And create, like, foliage around having to talk about Sandy Hook specifically. | ||
| Oh, yeah, yeah, I can see what you're saying. | ||
| On Wednesday's show, we heard a lot more of the, like, wishy-washy teasing saying it's fake and stuff like that, because he had to. | ||
| It was the day of. | ||
| But now he's gathered his thoughts, and it's, well, no matter what, it's an attack on guns. | ||
| So I can buy even more time. | ||
| By just talking about that angle and dismissing whatever, like, talk about the reality of Adam Lanza or the actual shooting. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's missing the forest for the trees, except for you're trying to shoot down all the trees. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, intentionally doing that. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| Caring about the cape instead of the bull or something. | ||
| That was not a good metaphor. | ||
| So at the end of that clip, you heard him say he's a video game head. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And that's interesting. | ||
| What does he play? | ||
| I don't know if I know that. | ||
| God, I wonder if we... | ||
| It might be in some reporting somewhere. | ||
| I'll look into that for a future episode. | ||
| I wonder if he and I would just sit down and be like, Hey, man, I don't know how I feel about Final Fantasy XIII Lightning Returns. | ||
| I think it was better than Final Fantasy XIII. | ||
| And I'm not sure about Final Fantasy XIII, too. | ||
| There were only two people. | ||
| Some cheat shoes were overpowered. | ||
| But listen, we're having a great time. | ||
| If he said that he liked Eternal Darkness, I'd have to head back to the woods. | ||
| What does that say about me? | ||
| I've got to go hang out with my moose friend in the woods. | ||
| But it's interesting because I haven't heard a lot of this, but it is something that comes up from time to time. | ||
| Alex has an intrinsic distrust of video games. | ||
| And actually, we had a listener who is a wonk. | ||
| He is, I believe, a globalist. | ||
| Michael, who messaged me about wanting to hear about Alex's take on video games. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I want to give a full episode about that, but it comes so piecemeal that I'm not really fully able to satisfy that request. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But I think in the Sandy Hook investigation, we are going to accidentally hear him talk a lot of shit about video games, and it's interesting because that is something that he's using to attack... | ||
| Adam Lanza in the same way that he's using, he's a Prozac head, all that stuff. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I want to say that he's more like the bar video game guy, like he's the deer hunter guy, the super golf or whatever it's called, like that thing. | ||
| Sexy photo hunt. | ||
| Shout out to Matt Drafke's fantastic joke. | ||
| So in this next clip, he talks more about that, talks more about the video games and how they make people crazy. | ||
| There's a lot of crazy psychos out there, and they usually grab you and go and torture you. | ||
| There's some psychos, though, that want to kill you right on the spot. | ||
| It's kind of like eating in, you know, going into the restaurant to eat, not getting a hamburger bag and going home to eat it. | ||
| Most psychopaths want to go home and take their time. | ||
| A lot of these psychos like to torture people, take their time. | ||
| But a small minority... | ||
| They like Sonic! | ||
| ...usually just programmed by video games. | ||
| They're brain damaged. | ||
| I've already got into this. | ||
| In fact, I want to say they're evil and think about what I do to them. | ||
| But really, folks, it's always just some weird goth nerd kid who's brain damaged on a bunch of drugs, watching devil movies all day, playing video games. | ||
| He is expressing basically like... | ||
| Updated version of the satanic panic nonsense. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| And what the, you know, the stuff about Dylan Kleibold. | ||
| Dylan and Kleibold listen to Marilyn Manson. | ||
| Nights in Satan's service. | ||
| That's what kiss really means. | ||
| It's 100% the same tired, tired argument that is usually used by people who wish to restrict free speech to some extent. | ||
| You know, people like a Tipper Gore. | ||
| I was about to bring it! | ||
| Holy shit! | ||
| We are on the same fucking page, man. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| I mean, this sort of argument is not something you would ever expect to hear out of someone who thinks they're a libertarian. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The idea of, like, violent video games made this guy kill a guy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like, what the fuck? | ||
| So we need regular... | ||
| Regular! | ||
| Or do we... | ||
| Regulation! | ||
| Do you outlaw video games as a whole? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Now what's a video game? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Fun times with that one, Alex. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Or is it the regulation? | ||
| You say you can't have violence in video games. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And then what does that become? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Where do you draw the line on that shit? | ||
| Can Mario jump on a Goomba? | ||
| Like that sort of thing. | ||
| That's a good question. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's violence. | ||
| That's violence as fuck. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because in most video games, you're not even killing the guy. | ||
| Like you're knocking him out. | ||
| But Goombas get murdered. | ||
| I've been playing so much Hyrule Warriors. | ||
| Oh, you kill all the time. | ||
| But they're always called KOs. | ||
| Nice! | ||
| They're listed as knockouts. | ||
| Nice! | ||
| Even though you're walking around slashing people with swords and then they fade to grey. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They fade to grey. | ||
| But that sort of mentality and that idea, it really does become like... | ||
| Neither of us are super big fans of slippery slope arguments, but it does become a situation where you're like, well... | ||
| What is it that you're actually complaining about? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Devil movies? | ||
| What's a devil movie? | ||
| Poltergeist? | ||
| Well, yes. | ||
| Anything with Gabriel Byrne in it is a devil movie. | ||
| You know how kids these days, in 2012, they're always watching Poltergeist. | ||
| Rosemary's Baby. | ||
| Rosemary's Baby! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Kids love Robert Evans! | ||
| I don't think... | ||
| Not the Robert Evans from Behind the Bastards? | ||
| The other... | ||
| The other other... | ||
| The kid who stays in the picture, Robert Evans. | ||
| The idea of... | ||
| I mean, he's not literally talking about the devil, but what is the point where... | ||
| Your, like, this is no good is satisfied. | ||
| It's a very censorious position to have, and it is not something you expect to hear from someone who is into free speech, who is a libertarian, who believes people should live and let live. | ||
| Or whatever. | ||
| It's nuts. | ||
| That alone should be an invalidation of Alex pretending he has the principles he professes. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| And in practice, you wind up getting the PG, PG-13-R rating thing, where it's all just arbitrary nonsense. | ||
| Oh, if you have one pair of tits, then it's PG-13. | ||
| You can say fuck one time. | ||
| Like, what is that? | ||
| What does that even mean? | ||
| I'm fine with raiding movies, but I think the body that does it is terrible. | ||
| And the guidelines are terrible. | ||
| But I think there is value to it in as much as if you're a parent, you don't have time to fucking know what you're going to. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| That sort of thing. | ||
| I think that you need a shorthand for parents. | ||
| I heard that the third How to Train Your Dragon gets a hard R. So I'm pretty excited about that. | ||
| It's called How to Train Your Deadpool 3. I saw the second one. | ||
| What was it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| I think it was the sequel. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When I was getting a root canal. | ||
| That's the worst time to see it. | ||
| I had a lot of thoughts. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| A lot of thoughts about it. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| A lot of tooth-related thoughts? | ||
| Nope. | ||
| Especially considering his name is Toothless and you were getting a root canal. | ||
| That is ironic. | ||
| I didn't even put those pieces together. | ||
| Oh, I put it all together. | ||
| Anyway, we'll have to save my thoughts on how to save your dragon for another day. | ||
| How to train your dragon. | ||
| Yeah, whatever. | ||
| I was on the gas, man. | ||
| Turns out I may not have thoughts about that movie. | ||
| That one, Dragon? | ||
| Too big. | ||
| Yeah, get him out of here. | ||
| Get him out of here. | ||
| So, in this next clip, Alex says what I would describe as the most ironic thing possible, given what we know about the future. | ||
| Yeah, like rain on your wedding day. | ||
| But it sounds good two days after the shooting. | ||
| It sounds good. | ||
| But we know too much. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So put your mic down and enjoy this delicious piece of whoops. | ||
| Yeah, the police are now begging reporters to leave grieving families alone. | ||
| Well, they're not going to leave them alone because they want to demonize the Second Amendment, and that's what they're doing. | ||
| I saw them on the news. | ||
| Why do you feel about the Second Amendment? | ||
| What do you think about guns? | ||
| Please, just leave us alone. | ||
| I bet they wish somebody would have been in there with a gun, even if it was a cop, to stop it. | ||
| And the answer is firearms to protect ourselves. | ||
| So, I think that the irony is delicious there. | ||
| The idea that he's condemning these reporters trying to harass the families when we know that the end result of so many of his actions... | ||
| And I'm not saying that in some abstract sense. | ||
| Like, there are people who have sent death threats to the families and gone to court and... | ||
| Part of their probation has been, you can't listen to Infowars. | ||
| Like, that sort of stuff. | ||
| It's not some sort of wacky idea that we have that a lot of his listeners have this impulse to harass these family members, but... | ||
| It's been borne out by reality. | ||
| But back then, that is a good instinct, I think, to have, but I don't think it reflects reality. | ||
| I don't think that the reporters were harassing the families trying to get them to say bad things about guns. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But if they were, they shouldn't have been. | ||
| They shouldn't have been. | ||
| And I agree with Alex. | ||
| I don't think that's the word. | ||
| It is so weird. | ||
| This gets back to last episode where I'm talking about I use humor to deal with these types of things. | ||
| Like, that is... | ||
| That I can't help but laugh at, but what that truly is in retrospect is utterly reprehensible. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Utterly reprehensible behavior that cannot be allowed to continue, and it's hilarious because it's so awful. | ||
| But it's not reprehensible here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right! | |
| Exactly! | ||
| I think it's reflecting his unwillingness or inability to understand what is happening in front of him. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like, the idea that he thinks that these families are being harassed by journalists and stuff. | ||
| And maybe a few journalists were. | ||
| I bet that there probably were. | ||
| I'm sure there were. | ||
| The Daily Mail is fucking off. | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| There are probably some people who are acting out of line and trying to get the story, trying to get some juicy goss or whatever. | ||
| But, like, his inability to understand exactly what's going on is leading him to be sort of Papa morality. | ||
| About, like, hey, leave these families alone. | ||
| And that's good, but it's hilarious because we know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He's the number one purveyor of making them harass people. | ||
| And that's not laughing at the tragedy. | ||
| That's laughing at Alex's... | ||
| I guess what you're laughing at is that he knows better. | ||
| In the same way that that clip earlier that we played where he's giving condolences to the family is so demonstrative that he knows something really bad happened. | ||
| That is an indication that he knows that other people's actions can cause negative reactions for the victims and the survivors. | ||
| It is kind of like that should be played in his trials of like, no, I know this is intentionally awful because he himself said that it was intentionally awful to do the thing that he made happen. | ||
| I mean, the best defense I think you would have is, like, I had no idea that my actions would cause this thing that I know is terrible. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And if that's the case, then you should be off the air. | ||
| I mean, maybe not by a legal mandate or anything like that, but if you don't know, if you don't realize that what you're saying will lead people to harass these people, dox them on the internet and shit like that, if you don't realize that, then you're playing with fire that you don't... | ||
| Have any mastery of it. | ||
| You're an irresponsible actor that should just not be allowed. | ||
| You just shouldn't be allowed. | ||
| Or you should just do sports. | ||
| I bet he couldn't even handle that, though. | ||
| I bet he'd say something really fucked up. | ||
| Oh, man, I just... | ||
| He'd be worse than Dennis Miller on Monday Night Football. | ||
| Nice. | ||
| Hey, we already know what he thinks about Kaepernick, so we definitely don't want him covering sports. | ||
| I'm just... | ||
| That was the... | ||
| I know, that was the wrong thing to choose. | ||
| Weather. | ||
| Nah, he'd say it was weapons. | ||
| I was trying to figure... | ||
| That would be a weather report that nobody could not watch. | ||
| I was trying to figure out... | ||
| It's gonna rain tomorrow because of the government! | ||
| I was trying to figure out the slot to put him in that would be so low stakes, and my mind wouldn't allow me to go to Celebrity Gossip, because the publication would be sued immediately. | ||
| Immediately. | ||
| Because he would do it so poorly. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Even Peter Thiel would have to sue him at some point. | ||
| Ah, this is not a blind item. | ||
| Uh, yeah. | ||
| TM Alex Jones. | ||
| There's no way, yeah, there's no way you put him anywhere. | ||
| But, like, the point of what I was trying to get at is put him somewhere low stakes instead of this incredibly powder keg-y, very high stakes world that he's operating in. | ||
| Make him be the anchor on the local news station who's like, and we have the cutest kitten of the month here today. | ||
| Like, that would work. | ||
| It's that time of year again. | ||
| A squirrel is water skiing. | ||
| We're all excited when it happens. | ||
| He should do Tosh 2.0. | ||
| That's what he should do. | ||
| He should be sentenced to a lifetime of the worst human interest stories. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Just inconsequential reporting. | ||
| America's conspiracy-est home videos. | ||
| Where, like, the Secret Service has to follow him on shoots and, like, he tries to get off script. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And he just says, going to prison if you don't. | |
| You should just have people following him around. | ||
| That would be an interesting kind of hell to sentence him to. | ||
| Or, like, oh, here would be great. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| What do we got? | ||
| Sentence him to an internship with the Council on Foreign Relations. | ||
| Or something like that. | ||
| Sentence him to a class where he has to actually read and discuss the primary sources that he talks about. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Because that would be that sort of, like, punishment. | ||
| It doesn't fit the crime. | ||
| But it might be a therapeutic way to go about it. | ||
| Make him a paralegal for the SPLC. | ||
| I don't think that would do it. | ||
| You'd just assume everything was fake or something like that. | ||
| No matter how... | ||
| He couldn't read the briefs. | ||
| Fair, fair, fair. | ||
| The reason that I said you've got to have that to be a class and stuff like that, like a workshop, is because you need to have someone discussing with him the way he's misreading these things. | ||
| And confront him with it in a setting that he can't leave. | ||
| That's why it has to be court ordered. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It's fun to think about what would be a good punishment for him. | ||
| Every morning he wakes up and has to live out that dream of going to high school in your underwear. | ||
| That's what has to happen. | ||
| No, because he was swole as shit back in high school and was super cool and everyone wanted to fuck him. | ||
| He goes to high school in his underwear. | ||
| That's why he's got to do it now. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| That wouldn't be so great. | ||
| No. | ||
| Thick-ass neck walking in that school. | ||
| Hey, Alex, what's bigger, your ass or your neck? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh! | |
| Fucking kids are globalists these days. | ||
| I don't know what to tell you. | ||
| Also, algebra is hard. | ||
| So, yeah, all that aside, I don't know. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| But in this next clip, Alex talks about the foundation of America, the beginning of this country. | ||
| Wrongly. | ||
| Very much. | ||
| I can already tell you, wrongly. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And again, the collectivists do this in every country, the same script. | ||
| This is how they get the guns every time. | ||
| And here they're failing because it's such a part. | ||
| Hey, lady, the gun culture you're so upset about and that Bob Costas hates so much, the gun culture is America. | ||
| We are rough and tumble. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| When he says, hey, lady, he's been complaining about Dianne Feinstein, just to give you some comments. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| And it started in 1776, July 4th, you may have heard of it. | ||
| Over... | ||
| The Redcoats coming to go door-to-door taking legal firearms. | ||
| So the country was born when you came to take the guns, and if you're stupid enough to try it again, it'll be reborn again. | ||
| He goes on to say, I don't want it to be reborn that way. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| But you already hear him defining sort of 1776 2.0 there, and it's just all gun shit. | ||
| Everything's guns. | ||
| All guns. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| America was based on guns. | ||
| Gun culture is American culture. | ||
| I don't know if I believe in any of that. | ||
| It is kind of fascinating that this very argument has been going on since the beginning. | ||
| In the first constitutional congresses, there were these gun folk in those congresses. | ||
| There were so many of these people who were like... | ||
| Hey, we should have socialized medicine. | ||
| And then other people were like, what if we killed everybody? | ||
| It was that. | ||
| You have so many people like fucking Hamilton arguing for centralized power within the executive branch. | ||
| And you just keep going through all this shit and you're like, it's the same fucking argument we've had since the goddamn beginning. | ||
| This country is a fucking mess. | ||
| With different masks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Different presentations. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's something to that. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I would say that if the people who... | ||
| It wasn't the majority of people in the colonies who wanted to start this revolutionary war. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Which it was not. | ||
| No. | ||
| And good on them for doing it. | ||
| Fine. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| They got a little bit higher tech so they started a revolution. | ||
| That's a little bit troublesome. | ||
| I would say... | ||
| History is borne out that it worked out fine. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Well, the only reason I resist any of that sort of sentiment is because, like, if we were still, like, the United States as it is now, but a territory of the United Kingdom, I don't think it would be better. | ||
| We could be Canada. | ||
| Eh. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We could just have the queen on our money and everybody be fine. | |
| Sure. | ||
| Whatever the case. | ||
| I think, quite frankly, if the, like Alex is describing, the thing that set off the Revolutionary War was guns and people having their guns taken, then it wouldn't be the Second Amendment. | ||
| It wouldn't be an amendment. | ||
| It would be the first. | ||
| thing in the Constitution, period. | ||
| Well, maybe the structure of government is laid out in the articles and stuff like that, but one of the articles would be, hey, the reason we did this is they wanted to take our guns, as opposed to being an afterthought. | ||
| Not an afterthought, but these things that are added in. | ||
| It would have been in the fucking Declaration of Independence. | ||
| You bet. | ||
| It would have been an inalienable human right. | ||
| So in this next clip, Alex yells a bunch. | ||
| And I should say that a good bit of this episode that I've just fucking cut out because I don't really give a shit is him yelling about how Obama cheated to win the 2012 election. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure. | ||
| It was all cheating. | ||
| And he yells about that and some other stuff in this next clip. | ||
| The fix was in. | ||
| Romney was a scam as well. | ||
| The whole thing was rigged. | ||
| Up one side and down the other. | ||
| And this is a desperate establishment that knows you're waking up to them. | ||
| That knows the gun culture is spreading and liberals are buying guns everywhere. | ||
| It's even on television and print media. | ||
| They're now admitting this. | ||
| And so they're panicking, desperately saying, oh, conservatism's dead, libertarianism's dead, oh, freedom's dead, everyone's embracing collectivism. | ||
| No, it's not. | ||
| They're trying to shove a fraud. | ||
| The dinosaur corporate state-run media is dying. | ||
| They're panicking. | ||
| They stole the election. | ||
| They're in deep trouble. | ||
| We're winning. | ||
| Don't believe their hoax. | ||
| We're winning. | ||
| We're winning! | ||
| That outro music started too early. | ||
| I think he mistimed that break a little bit. | ||
| Yeah, I don't think he did great on that one. | ||
| A little bit, doth protest a little much. | ||
| But all the things that he's saying are also things that would lead you to believe that Sandy Hook was fake. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Like, all of it, the corporate media's dying, they need stuff like this, Obama cheated, they're desperate, they're panicking, all that stuff. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| What is the action you're implying they would take if they were panicking? | ||
| Exactly faking a school shooting. | ||
| Agreed. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| If you're saying that the old mainstream media is in crisis because they know that even liberals who still believe in the mainstream media are buying guns, then they have to. | ||
| Create this situation in order to get the liberals to stop buying guns. | ||
| Extreme time. | ||
| And to take them away from the patriots. | ||
| Extreme measures. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Every part of this is like... | ||
| It's very much a where there's smoke, there's they fake Sandy Hook. | ||
| I mean, he literally said where there's smoke, there's fire. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| And this is still the tease, but the tease has changed. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's the thing that I think that's most interesting from this Friday to Sunday jump, is that the tease was so... | ||
| I don't think Alex was even in control of it, necessarily. | ||
| I would say just based on the fact that you and I were so like, well, maybe what he's doing is this on Friday. | ||
| And now on Sunday, I think we're on much solider ground that it's... | ||
| There's a tease. | ||
| I know that my audience is going to understand that I don't trust what's going on, even if I say I believe the mainstream story of this. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| But who gives a shit? | ||
| Let's talk guns. | ||
| That is how he finds his bearings. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He is doing something, I would say, could be considered calculated in that, unlike with the previous episode, he's not kind of all over the map. | ||
| True. | ||
| In this episode, he's specifically pointing out... | ||
| It's almost like he's building a case. | ||
| Like, he's specifically pointing out the motivations of different groups, like the UN is doing this, the mainstream media is doing this, and he's trying to build this case against each one of them so that his conclusion then can be pointed back to all of them. | ||
| But I don't know how much of that is intentional and how much of that is just the result of he's had to sit with this for a couple days. | ||
| And he's more ready to talk than he was on Friday. | ||
| That's a fair point. | ||
| He got blindsided in the middle of the show with this news on Friday. | ||
| And now he's had time to have a meeting with Buckley or whatever and figure out, like, alright, what's important here? | ||
| First off, those are some dope beats. | ||
| Well, for years you've been screaming about people taking your guns. | ||
| Obviously people are having a conversation about gun control in the aftermath of this shooting. | ||
| So just do that, and we'll figure out where to go from there. | ||
| So now he knows that much, and he can do this. | ||
| And you see it in other places throughout, like with the Prozac head stuff. | ||
| He has a built-in narrative about people taking psych medications, making them kill people, stuff like that. | ||
| Throw that in. | ||
| He has the MIAC report. | ||
| Throw that in and turn it from the MIAC report to a federal report, and they're doing it on everybody. | ||
| Well, the DHS report was that other one we talked about. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| I know what you're saying, but it's the same narrative. | ||
| Mayak has a great name. | ||
| Mayak has a much better name. | ||
| It's interesting because when he needs to pull from the well, those are the things he pulls from. | ||
| There's an implicit vaccine narrative that he's throwing out. | ||
| There's the psych meds narrative. | ||
| There's the Mayak narrative. | ||
| There's the gun-grabbing narrative. | ||
| And so you have all of these standard, expected pieces of Alex's rhetoric, but... | ||
| He adds in, because it's a school shooting and stuff like that, the video games. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And he gets back to it in this next clip. | ||
| See, I'm here for we the people. | ||
| And I'm not a collectivist. | ||
| And because some serotonin reuptake inhibitor, Prozac, Ritalin head, goth, video game punk. | ||
| I'm not calling to ban your video games. | ||
| I'm not calling to ban your Prozac. | ||
| But we should do that before we ban guns. | ||
| So... | ||
| I mean, that implies that I'm more fine with banning video games and Prozac before I am guns, which means you're kind of okay with banning those. | ||
| It pretty much means that, exactly. | ||
| It means at least that they aren't absolutes for him. | ||
| I'm a libertarian, but there's some wiggle room. | ||
| There's some versions of entertainment that I think should be prohibited. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Why is everybody... | ||
| I get the Columbine thing, but come on, man. | ||
| Goth kids are cool. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Golf kids are fine. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They weird out adults. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And I understand why. | ||
| You can't connect. | ||
| It's hard. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| It's hard. | ||
| But it's the same thing with video games. | ||
| It's like, we didn't grow up with video games, so we can't understand them. | ||
| Each generation has that subculture that you just can't understand unless you're a part of it or around it a lot. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| The point is, Alex keeps bringing up video games. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| He keeps bringing up video games because it is some sort of a trigger for him. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's... | |
| Not frequently a part of his rhetoric, but it is now two days later. | ||
| He wasn't talking much about video games on Friday, because he didn't know who the guy was. | ||
| Now that he's in the age subset that he would associate with this part of his brain, pointing finger at video games, it's huge to him. | ||
| And he says this in this next clip. | ||
| I couldn't beat Link to the Past! | ||
| I think he was a Pong guy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's not fair. | |
| He's only 10 years older than me. | ||
| I know! | ||
| He's not that old! | ||
| No, but that means he would have been playing Atari or something. | ||
| No, that's not fair. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| My timeline's all fucked up because my parents wouldn't let me have video games. | ||
| I bet he played Goldeneye at least once. | ||
| Yeah, but he would have been 30. 20. I don't know. | ||
| Okay, most people don't have a killer instinct. | ||
| First-person shooter games were developed in the 60s by the Department of Defense. | ||
| For instinctive killing. | ||
| To where you just instantly do it. | ||
| Police are trained to do this now. | ||
| So the point is, you get an autistic person who's an idiot savant. | ||
| He was reportedly highly intelligent. | ||
| Who was obsessive. | ||
| He got obsessed with guns and shoot-em-ups and was reportedly under psychiatric care. | ||
| The treatment for that is psychotropic. | ||
| So you give someone a killer... | ||
| Now listen, it could have been a government op. | ||
| They're reporting people in the woods. | ||
| Another guy arrested. | ||
| So, at the end there, that spinning into that shit is no good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Your favorite movies are John Wayne movies! | |
| True, he isn't... | ||
| What are you talking about? | ||
| Shoot-em-up games are a problem! | ||
| He's in some hot water, I hear. | ||
| I hear John Wayne isn't as cool as everyone thought he was. | ||
| What a surprise. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| So, but he's talking about video games and, like, these shoot-em-up games were created by the Department of Defense and all this stuff. | ||
| And interestingly, Alex is kind of right about that, but he's also kind of wrong. | ||
| In terms of the video games and the Department of Defense and the Pentagon. | ||
| What he's right about is that DoD funding was involved with some of the earliest video games, like back in the 1950s. | ||
| There's a man named William Higginbotham who worked at Brookhaven National Lab, and he created a game called Tennis for Two on some of the early computers that they had there to try and make their lab more interesting to visitors. | ||
| It's basically an early version of Pong. | ||
| His salary at the lab was paid for by the government, and so you can make the argument that they helped create video games just from that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Then in 1993, the Marines noticed the rising popularity of doom, and they wanted to see if there were ways to use the new technology to help supplement their training regimen. | ||
| Particularly because it would be way cheaper than what they had been doing previously. | ||
| Yeah, I was going to say, they're playing the last Starfighter game. | ||
| They're doing that whole thing. | ||
| Training simulations in terms of what they were working with in order to create a facsimile of a 3D environment and stuff like that. | ||
| They had to have boxes that would shake and go on Star Tours. | ||
| It's basically that. | ||
| That's way more expensive than just developing a software or whatever that is a simulation. | ||
| The Marines made adjustments to Doom 2 to try and make it work for their purposes, but the finished product was never officially used for training. | ||
| It was called Wolfenstein. | ||
| It was called, I think it was actually called Marine Doom, which is not a great name. | ||
| It's not a great name. | ||
| It might have had a slightly different name, but it was Marine something. | ||
| Could not be less creative than Marine blank. | ||
| It's not the games themselves that have application for training, and thus explain the reason that the Pentagon has for a long time been funding the underlying research. | ||
| It's the technology that is used to make the video games. | ||
| For instance, with Doom, it was the innovation of navigating a 3D environment. | ||
| With shooting games, it's the collaborative team elements that you can recreate, and the need for immediate decision making that's built into the structure of the games. | ||
| So those sorts of things are very big innovations. | ||
| In technology simulating. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Like that sort of computing simulation. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It's not that the games themselves are training you. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's important. | ||
| It's an important distinction. | ||
| If we have soldiers who are doing this stuff in real life, what if we also had them play Counter-Strike and did that? | ||
| Well... | ||
| And learn how to look around corners or whatever it is. | ||
| But that's the thing. | ||
| That's not what they do. | ||
| That's not what they do. | ||
| They have used the technologies that have been developed by the development of these games, which is why they invest in a lot of video game companies. | ||
| Like THQ made a bunch of money on government contracts and stuff like that. | ||
| Because what the game development allows by the breakthroughs that they make are the training things that the government and the military and the Marines can use. | ||
| Get to use those technologies. | ||
| Right. | ||
| If that makes sense. | ||
| Like a flight simulator. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Like when pilots are in those giant... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This is such an important distinction. | ||
| What drives the game and what is behind it is not what they're interested in. | ||
| They're not interested in open world... | ||
| Like Breath of the Wild being open world. | ||
| They don't want to train people to look out for enemies or whatever by playing Breath of the Wild. | ||
| They're interested in the breakthroughs in technology that they can apply to their own simulations. | ||
| Like... | ||
| Like drones and shit like that? | ||
| Like the movie Toys? | ||
| Not necessarily. | ||
| I don't know why I'm doing so many movie references. | ||
| Not necessarily to drone attacks or something like that, although there is an interesting wrinkle with that. | ||
| But it's more to what they're able to do with the simulations that they do use for training inside the army. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| They don't make people play Call of Duty to train them to go to war. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| In order to amplify their own pre-existing simulations. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| As technology has gotten so much better, and as the video games, the controls of them have developed over the years, you are essentially able to create something that is very similar to flying a plane that you don't have to fly a plane to do. | ||
| That is in everyone's best interest from a financial standpoint, from a safety standpoint. | ||
| Even though learning to fly a plane apparently isn't as hard as everyone thinks. | ||
| And that's why everybody in the Marines thinks that ebony is an ore and a metal because they play Skyrim all the goddamn time. | ||
| Not sure Skyrim has many training applications. | ||
| But the point is that is an important distinction to bring in about the difference between what the DoD and the Pentagon were interested in in terms of video games. | ||
| As opposed to how Alex is presenting it. | ||
| He's presenting it as they paid all this money in order for these games to get created so everyone would play them and shoot them up and then they'd all be ready to kill. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| I got you. | ||
| Like in toys. | ||
| That is an infantile fucking stupid way to look at this. | ||
| When you look at where the money is, what they would be interested in. | ||
| And I'm not saying that I necessarily think that it's a great thing because I think that the military does... | ||
| You know, do a lot of bad stuff. | ||
| Evil. | ||
| But I also think that, you know, in terms of if you're going to train people anyway, doing it that way, paying for so many video games I've gotten such enjoyment out of probably only existed because of technology that there was underlying funding from the government in order to create. | ||
| The internet, etc. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So, I don't know. | ||
| It's more complicated. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| Anyway, no matter how many times Alex has seen The Last Starfighter, which you mentioned earlier, this is just not how it works. | ||
| There's no intrinsic training that you get from playing a first-person shooter that you wouldn't get from playing Tetris in terms of decision-making. | ||
| All of those snap decisions and stuff like that that are created by a first-person shooter game where someone's coming at you, you've got to shoot them. | ||
| It's the exact same thing as you've got to flip that block. | ||
| It's the same part of your brain in terms of that stuff. | ||
| You don't experience a desensitization about death from video games unless you're probably already on that path to begin with for any number of possible reasons. | ||
| That is not about the video game. | ||
| It's about the person who's experiencing the game. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And if you're a libertarian... | ||
| That should be a big consideration for you. | ||
| I have killed a lot of Nazi zombies. | ||
| I have never once considered killing a human being. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| The more important aspect of the military in video games is that they found that they're way more effective as a recruiting tool than as a training instrument. | ||
| And that's their largest interest these days, at least. | ||
| Games like the Call of Duty, all those games, are essentially propaganda to a certain extent. | ||
| And they were way worse a decade or two ago. | ||
| Some of the games that were coming out were overt army propaganda games. | ||
| Anyway, another thing that Alex doesn't consider is that the investment that the military has put into the development of these technologies has other applications as well. | ||
| For instance, doctors are able to use simulations in controlled therapeutic environments to help returning soldiers who are experiencing PTSD. | ||
| It's obviously not a perfect treatment at this point, but it's shown a lot of promise in terms of helping soldiers deal with traumatic events and manage negative emotions. | ||
| So there is that payoff that comes from the investment that they have in the technology also. | ||
| So all of this is to say that Alex is fucking stupid. | ||
| He is dealing with this on a one-dimensional scale as opposed to thinking about like, huh, what were they doing? | ||
| It is weird that a lot of video game history has the government funding behind it. | ||
| But if you just scratch beneath the surface a tiny bit, it's not nefarious. | ||
| It's nefarious if you think that the military just wants to kill people in other countries. | ||
| And that argument, I'll hear. | ||
| I'll hear that argument. | ||
| But in terms of trying to train the culture in order to be dumb, dumb serial killers who will go around and shoot people, that's fucking stupid. | ||
| That is on the level of the satanic panic arguments. | ||
| Yeah, agreed. | ||
| It's weird to... | ||
| I suppose it's not invalidating, but it is weird to say that... | ||
| Violent video games can be a therapeutic element for... | ||
| No, no, no, no. | ||
| Not violent video games. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Just the technology that was developed. | ||
| Right. | ||
| No, no, I mean for soldiers returning... | ||
| No, that's what I'm saying. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's not violent. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Okay, I apologize. | ||
| Not necessarily violent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But it is strange for video game technology to be both a therapeutic element and at the same time the element that people use to desensitize people to violence. | ||
| Do you know what I mean? | ||
| But I'm not sure... | ||
| But it's not an invalidating argument because... | ||
| But I also don't think that the way that the military uses the technology and the simulations that they create, I don't think it's to desensitize people to violence. | ||
| Oh, of course not. | ||
| I think it's... | ||
| I'm just saying that his argument that it is that is... | ||
| Fair. | ||
| You know, it's kind of... | ||
| And again, like, things can be both a double-edged sword. | ||
| That's not unreasonable to say. | ||
| But it is hard to make that argument without, at the same time, making that connection. | ||
| Well, he doesn't care. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| No, of course he doesn't care. | ||
| He doesn't care. | ||
| His argument is, I think that this guy was set up by the globalists and I'm going to find the thinnest straws to pull at in order to make that argument. | ||
| One of them is video games. | ||
| And I have a built-in narrative. | ||
| I just don't think it's come up any time that we've been covering him. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I think this is probably a narrative of his that's probably existed since Columbine. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| Probably his entire career in terms of, like, the Department of Defense created video games in order to desensitize people to violence and blah, blah, blah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think that's probably a major narrative he doesn't pull out very often because it's not often all that applicable. | ||
| And so we hear it now and... | ||
| What if somebody just taught him how to play Minecraft? | ||
| Do you think he would feel differently about video games? | ||
| His show is over. | ||
| Video games? | ||
| The show is over. | ||
|
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He's just going to be creating weird things. | |
| I'm going to recreate the Alamo in Minecraft. | ||
| I'm going to play out the life of Colonel Travis. | ||
| Give him Sim Farm and tell him to go fuck himself. | ||
| Enjoy this pretend lifestyle you wish you were living. | ||
| Yeah, what if somebody just gave him SimCity early enough where he was like, well, I'll take all these conspiracy theories and create my own world, and oh my god, this happens naturally. | ||
| I will simulate exactly what I think is going on. | ||
| That's why... | ||
| I will simulate what my enemies want to do and then flash forward to a prosperous city. | ||
| Yeah, it would be interesting to have him play the latest expansion of Civ VI, which includes climate change. | ||
| Oh, it does? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| It includes climate change as one of the elemental things that you have to deal with. | ||
| Sadly, not available on the Switch. | ||
| Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. | ||
| I haven't played it either. | ||
| So, I don't know. | ||
| My point is that... | ||
| It's interesting. | ||
| I think we got a new wrinkle of his narratives that is sort of more elusive, that was driven out of its little hole, little hidey hole, by this school shooting. | ||
| That's good. | ||
| That's worth something. | ||
| Anyway, we have one more clip, and Alex gets a call, and this caller says that it's fake, that the shooting was fake. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Alex, his response is interesting, and I think that there's volumes within this 30-second clip. | ||
| Let's go to Julio in Illinois. | ||
| Julio, real fast. | ||
| You know, what would drive the son whose father was the vice president and tax director of General Electric Energy Financial Services? | ||
|
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The Connecticut shooter, his dad was the VP. | |
| No, no, he grew up in a multi-million dollar a year family. | ||
| I tell you, look, I'm not going to go there, but it looks suspicious. | ||
| I'd rather debate it on the facts that I can prove, but look, I smell something when it's rotten, brother. | ||
| God damn it! | ||
| That is the worst fucking response possible, because that caller is expressing things that are a big part of the Sandy Hook is fake world, and I assume Alex is probably going to run with in the future. | ||
| And his response is to cut him off and be like, I don't want to go there. | ||
| But also, I smell something when it's rotten. | ||
| So it's like, I don't want to go there, but I'll still insinuate. | ||
| And that is bad. | ||
| But it's where he's at. | ||
| That's the thing that he's going to point to, for sure, with his we-just-had-debates-on-it argument. | ||
| It's like, I would rather debate this on the facts. | ||
| And it's like, no you wouldn't. | ||
| But he also hasn't been using facts. | ||
| Of course not. | ||
| Facts are a bummer. | ||
| Facts really break up his entire momentum. | ||
| They're a big problem. | ||
| Every time you bring facts into it, Alex Jones' whole worldview falls apart. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| But again, in the same way that you see glimmers of what I think he wishes he had done in these episodes. | ||
| And what I think maybe is his spiritual memory of what he did. | ||
| I think it's entirely possible. | ||
| That response to that caller still could be depicted as... | ||
| We heard both sides. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Or whatever. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| His response even being like, I don't want to go there, but it looks bad. | ||
|
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It looks bad. | |
| It looks suspicious. | ||
| He knows that the end result of that is the audience will fucking ignore the I don't want to go there and hear that this is suspicious part. | ||
| But in terms of things that we can really nail to the wall, he's not... | ||
| He's not super out of line yet, except for all of the other stuff. | ||
| Does that make sense? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| In terms of what we're looking at in Sandy Hook's stuff, he's very clearly signaling what he wants to do and where he's at, but he hasn't said the things we need yet. | ||
| It is like he is living in a world where he can win that lawsuit. | ||
| He can win the current lawsuit. | ||
| If he is just this guy in 2012 for these two days, then when they sue him, he can say and back up, I didn't say this was fake. | ||
| I only wanted to have debates. | ||
| I had my suspicions because I'm who I am. | ||
| But in the world we live in now, he done fucked up. | ||
| And even he knows almost certainly. | ||
| That he done fucked up. | ||
| Well, and what's interesting, too, is that Alex now, like, his version of it is so much like, I had the right to question things, they had babies in incubators and blah blah blah. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure, sure. | ||
| But he's not using those arguments now. | ||
| No. | ||
| He's not talking about, like, how there were babies in incubators that they said were being kicked out and stuff. | ||
| Like, the things that he uses to defend himself for why he was questioning Sandy Hook, as Sandy Hook is unfolding... | ||
| He's not talking about those things, but he's still clearly questioning it. | ||
| He knows that he doesn't need to defend himself. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And it's just crazy interesting to me. | ||
| I know that there's a part of it that I have to detach a tiny bit of humanity from myself in order to go through all this. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| This does have the feel of somebody, in the moment, this has the feel of somebody who thinks he has to. | ||
| Be the guy who says, this probably isn't real. | ||
| He feels like he has a responsibility to his listeners to imply that this isn't real. | ||
| He doesn't feel like it's not real yet. | ||
| Do you know what I mean? | ||
| This is the Alex Jones in a lawsuit whose lawyer can say, this is an act. | ||
| This is Alex Jones, the presenter. | ||
| Who has to do the things that he does for his show. | ||
| But he wouldn't have to defend himself about the behavior over the last two episodes that we've listened to. | ||
| Of course! | ||
| Like, I don't think that there's anything in there that's legally actionable. | ||
| Exactly! | ||
| And if we didn't know that he eventually says the things he does, it would be like, huh, Alex is walking a fine line. | ||
| Right. | ||
| He's irresponsible here, but... | ||
| He's kind of right. | ||
| He didn't say it was fake. | ||
| He just keeps implying it's fake, which that's on the side of free speech. | ||
| You can do whatever you want to do. | ||
| You're a dick to do it, but you, whatever. | ||
| I mean, I don't, yeah. | ||
| That's what I'm saying. | ||
| This is the Alex Jones that they want to present, that his lawyers want to present in court. | ||
| When we know that the Alex Jones that's real is the one from 2015 saying it's fake. | ||
| Or in a couple episodes on this show. | ||
| Yeah, it's entirely possible, yeah. | ||
| And the other thing that I need to bring into really sharp focus is because I got some feedback from the last episode about, like, you need to talk to Sandy Hook lawyers about this and stuff like that. | ||
| I've gotten a couple emails about that. | ||
| And one of the reasons that, first of all, I will never do that is because, why? | ||
|
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Second... | |
| They know this. | ||
| And then third, everything that we're talking about is outside of the statute of limitations. | ||
| Even him in 2015 saying it was synthetic completely, there were actors, I thought there were kids who died there, but it turns out there weren't, all that shit. | ||
| That is still outside the statute of limitations for defamation in the jurisdictions he's being sued in. | ||
| So there isn't a real productive reason to bring this to the conversation. | ||
| Since it would be inadmissible anyway. | ||
| And they know. | ||
| These are episodes that you can find them online. | ||
| It's not like I had to dig through the crates like I'm DJ Z Trip or something. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Random DJ. | ||
| That's a weird name to bring out, but I'm cool with that. | ||
| Shadow. | ||
| Okay, that's better. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| DJ Kose, he's in the news. | ||
| Crush. | ||
| Last year, he had one of the top 20 albums of last year. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Good on him. | ||
| It was good. | ||
| But I didn't have to dig too far to find these things. | ||
| It's available. | ||
| And I believe that anybody doing their due diligence, if they're suing Alex Jones about what he said about Sandy Hook, they know what the fuck he said at this time. | ||
| They know it's not legally actionable, but... | ||
| It's important for their case so they would know these things. | ||
| To be aware of it, yeah. | ||
| So I don't have any real interest in that angle of this. | ||
| This is entirely human and intellectual based. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just understanding what he was doing, how his brain works, how does a person fall into that deep of a hole? | ||
| Right. | ||
| How do you go from this point where it's clear that he recognizes that people died to... | ||
| Whatever version of the conspiracy he lands on first. | ||
| That's what I'm more interested in. | ||
| As much as I want our show to be successful in the present, because I really would like that, not stoked about a day job, but there is also a certain aspect of this that I find so relevant to posterity. | ||
| It's also relevant to right now. | ||
| When the fish people... | ||
| Take over in about 15 to 25 years. | ||
| I hope they listen to the show and recognize what propaganda... | ||
| You mean the citizens of Innsmouth. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| And at that point, when the Deep Ones, they come and take over, Alex's RSS feed will be dead by then. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| So we won't be able to find out what he said. | ||
| Great graphic novel, The Deep. | ||
| Fantastic. | ||
| This is another thing. | ||
| It's very foreign territory for us to jump into another investigation because these things that we've done have taken so long. | ||
| They end up being tons and tons of episodes. | ||
| We're used to knowing a whole lot more and there being larger context to a ton of stuff. | ||
| Whereas now we're on the second episode, the second day of looking at this December 2012 stuff. | ||
| It's more... | ||
| Foreign territory. | ||
| So even though we know Alex Jones, there's so much more that we've got to get our feet under us a little bit. | ||
| And I don't think we're 100% there yet. | ||
| We're still doing too much speculating, which I don't think is wrong. | ||
| I don't think it's bad of us. | ||
| But it's not where I want to be. | ||
| But it's the essential piece of getting in the pool. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You never know what you're diving into. | ||
| We've committed to the jump. | ||
| We'll find out what the water's like when we get in. | ||
| It's just that it's dead center in between our 2009 investigation and our 2015 investigation, and yet somehow this is a completely different thing. | ||
| And yet it's the same in so many ways. | ||
| All I care about is guns. | ||
| Right. | ||
| There's so many of the same built-in essential narratives about distrusting psych meds and... | ||
| Vaccines and stuff like that. | ||
| So there's a lot of familiar territory we can use to orient ourselves. | ||
| It's the tone. | ||
| The tone is different. | ||
| The tone is different. | ||
| The response to severe circumstances is different. | ||
| And just who he is at this point is different. | ||
| We haven't heard from him in a couple years at this point when we're jumping in. | ||
| So we will learn more. | ||
| We'll experience this, and I'm glad it's not ugly yet, but it's going to be. | ||
| I'm sure it will. | ||
| But we'll catch you next time. | ||
| Maybe another fucking Sandy Hook episode on Monday. | ||
| We'll find out. | ||
| It depends. | ||
| It'll probably be. | ||
| So, anyway, before that, until then, we have a website. | ||
| We do have a website. | ||
| It's knowledgefight.com. | ||
| That's great. | ||
| We're also on Twitter. | ||
| If you are a big... | ||
| If you're a big John Wayne fan, it's also fillyourhand.com. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| And our Twitter. | ||
| I think we've got to get rid of that now. | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Bad news about John Wayne. | ||
| Got to get rid of that redirect. | ||
| But our Twitter page is at knowledge underscore fight. | ||
| You're correct. | ||
| We're also on Facebook. | ||
| We are on Facebook. | ||
| We have a group called Go Home and Tell Your Mother You're Brilliant. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| We're also on iTunes. | ||
| Which is filled with fantastic people and we hope that it can remain a safe space. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| We are also on iTunes. | ||
| We are on iTunes. | ||
| Which is not a safe space. | ||
| You can leave a safe review. | ||
| But you can leave a review, subscribe, all that good stuff. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| But I don't know, man. | ||
| You look at this. | ||
| I don't know if Alex talked about anybody but himself and a literal murderer. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| Because he did mention Lanza. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| I will say this. | ||
| I have killed a lot of Nazi zombies. | ||
| I've killed a lot of Mio Nectens. | ||
| In the video game world. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| But I've never killed a guy. | ||
| No? | ||
| I know one guy who has. | ||
|
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Who? | |
| Technically, probably... | ||
| In the real world... | ||
| Oh, no! | ||
| ...may have killed a guy. | ||
| That's Alex Jones. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
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Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your work. |