Radio Renaissance - Jared Taylor - The Irreplaceable Charlie Kirk

Sept. 11, 2025 - Radio Renaissance - Jared Taylor

59:34

The Irreplaceable Charlie Kirk

Jared Taylor and Paul Kersey pay tribute to Charlie Kirk. If he was not already great, he was on the road to greatness, and the more he talked about race the greater he became. Thumbnail credit: © MRSERIKAKIRK/Instagram via ZUMA Press Wire

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	Ladies and gentlemen, dear listeners, welcome to this special edition of Radio Renaissance.
	This is in honor of Charlie Kirk, who was shot down, age only 31.
	Charlie Kirk was really a courageous man.
	And some would say he was a great man.
	I would certainly say that he was on the path to greatness.
	And this despicable assassination has really shocked most people, certainly the vast majority of Americans, I believe.
	And it has certainly shocked me.
	I'm joined with Paul Kersey, who is just as shocked.
	And we will consider this a tribute to Charlie Kirk.
	As everyone now knows, he was at a college event.
	I believe there are about 3,000 people there.
	And Mr. Kersey, I think we should talk a little bit about what we know about the assassination, and then we can get into some of his politics.
	I know you knew him personally.
	But if you don't mind, let us talk a little bit about what's known about the assassination.
	I think it's important, sir, that you use that word assassination.
	Charlie Kirk was a very important figure, and he was about to give a speech and participate in one of these open forum debates on a college campus in Utah.
	And we really don't know that much yet because – We certainly don't know much about the killer.
	Well, I'll tell you what apparently we do know.
	Somewhat to my surprise, the Commissioner of Public Safety in Utah says that they were able to track the movements of the shooter both before and after the assassination.
	They say they've got good video of him, and they're working on certain technical problems to see if they can identify him with face recognition.
	It's that sort of thing.
	And if that doesn't work, then they plan to release the video to the public.
	I'm a little bit surprised.
	They don't release it now.
	But apparently, after firing a single shot, this guy moved the other side of the building that he was on.
	It was about 200 yards away from Charlie Kirk was.
	Isn't that the estimate of it?
	Maybe 200 yards.
	250 yards.
	Yeah, it was a long shot.
	And sir, it was one shot.
	So there was, this was deliberate.
	This was.
	Oh, no question about that.
	This was professional.
	Yeah, exactly.
	That's important, too.
	That's important, too.
	Yes.
	And apparently the investigators say they have a shoe impression and a palm print and forearm prints.
	Now, that surprises me very much.
	If this guy was a pro, he would have been wearing gloves.
	He would have had long sleeves on for the very purpose of not leaving prints.
	So that fact makes me wonder just how much of a professional he was.
	But he certainly was a pretty good shot.
	And another interesting thing that's come out so far, he did not use an AR-15.
	He used a bolt action, what has been described as a bolt-action high-powered rifle.
	He apparently found that in the woods.
	And the fact that it is bolt action suggests to me that this guy was a serious long-distance shooter.
	That is the kind of weapon.
	You have just the steadiest, steadiest sort of shot.
	And so this guy knew how to place a shot at a long distance.
	He shot once and he cleared out.
	Now, they say jumped off, jumped off the building and fled.
	And apparently, there were six officers, police officers, working the event, and Charlie Kirk had his own traveling security detail.
	But there were 3,000 people there.
	And certainly they don't have perimeter control of the kind they would ordinarily have for someone like the president of the United States.
	In any case, that is, as far as I know.
	Do you know any more about the circumstances of this assassination?
	You know, I've seen the videos.
	I've seen the fact that there were a bunch of elevated buildings, which led for coverage and concealment of said shooter.
	And I've seen pictures of what looks to be the shooter.
	Well, you see just these tiny little figures in the distance or have you seen the distance.
	That's exactly right.
	This was a long shot.
	I mean, and it's a terrifying video because there's been a lot that's happened in the past couple, past week, sir, and in the United States of America.
	And here you have Charlie Kirk who has been attacked by the left, by South Park making fun of him for going out.
	And all he's trying to do is have a dialogue with the left to engage in a conversation.
	And he's just standing there.
	You watch the video, and it's horrific.
	It's horrific.
	The only other thing that is released in the news, so far as I know, about the identity of the shooter, is that from the images, he appears to be college age, college age.
	Now, they haven't said anything about his race.
	My suspicion is he's probably a white guy.
	And I'm going to go out on a limb here.
	And my guess, my guess is if there is going to be one ideological position that this guy took, it was probably something to do in defense of transsexual rights or defense of abortion rights.
	That's going to be my guess.
	One of the reasons I say that is that these people who are really big on transsexual rights, they're some of the most vicious people in America these days.
	My wife was at a rally just yesterday, the very same day of the assassination, and it had to do with a meeting at the school board about a rule, the schools where I live, one of these schools where they encourage information about transsexuals and gender fluidity.
	And they're talking about making sex change operations encouraged, and you don't have to tell your parents, and the school will hold your hand, education about all of this stuff.
	And so there's opposition to this, obviously.
	But the people who were there, there were people brandishing signs that said, kill Nazis, not transsexuals.
	Another sign they said was, we stand for equality in the transsexual colors with an AK-47 rifle.
	And there were guys out there, black, block, black head to toe, with masks on.
	These people are vicious.
	And so that's just my hunch.
	I mean, there could be a whole host of reasons why someone would want to shoot this guy.
	But it's my guess that if it boils down to one thing, it'll be that.
	But it just could be some hopped up kind of commie lefty who hated everything that Kirk stood for.
	Or we just don't know.
	It could be some, we just don't know.
	The Wall Street Journal has reported.
	Yes.
	They just reported about an hour ago that ammunition engraved with transgender and anti-fascist ideology was found inside the rifle authorities believe was used in Kirk's shooting.
	Apparently the guy who was shot tried to ditch the rifle as he made his or her escape.
	I guess we don't want to misgender the shooter.
	But this comes about, what, three, four weeks after the trune transgender shooting in Minnesota, where the Catholic Church was targeted.
	That's right.
	And you saw a lot of rhetoric from the Trump administration talking about potentially banning transgenders from having the right to the Second Amendment due to terroristic threats.
	And, you know, we'd be remiss if we didn't just point out why was Charlie Kirk, sir, you know, why was he a target for assassination?
	Well, I mean, he could be a target of assassination for a whole lot of reasons, but I didn't realize that.
	They have found ammunition.
	Now, I've never seen ammunition that is engraved with anything other than the manufacturer.
	No, I know.
	And that's why it's one of these situations where it's like, you know what?
	What's really behind this?
	Like, this was done on film.
	This was caught.
	You know, all college kids now at these events are.
	They've got their phones out there recording everything because they're putting in their TikTok, their Instagram, their Facebook, their meta, whatever.
	And there are way too many angles.
	This is a horrific.
	Wait, I'm still talking about this ammunition store.
	Correct.
	Correct.
	But the Wall Street Journal says that ammunition in the gun had pro-transsexual and anti-fascist messages on it.
	Is that what it's saying?
	That is what the Wall Street Journal.
	Ammunition engraved with transgender and anti-fascist ideology was found inside the rifle.
	Wow.
	Believe was used in Kirk's shooting.
	As I believe you mentioned, it was a bolt action rifle.
	Do they say what kind?
	I've heard Stephen Crowder, who was a friend of Charlie Kirk's and also a right-leaning podcaster, got a message from the ATF leaked to him where he said that they found a 30-odd six blanket not far from the shooting.
	And so that lead credence to how this report was.
	I am perplexed as to how any kind of ideology can be engraved on a rifle round.
	So that's mysterious to me.
	But okay, then my intuition is perhaps correct that the primary motivation was sort of general anti-fascism.
	But then the big thing here is what Charlie Kirk was saying about transsexuals.
	I know he was opposed to same-sex marriage.
	I think he's completely opposed to any kind of gender transition.
	Wasn't one of his stances that there are only two sexes and there's just no way you can switch from one to another.
	Was that not one of his trademark views?
	That was not only one of his many trademark views.
	He was also attacked for being a firm believer in the great replacement.
	Oh, there are plenty of things, yes.
	But what I'm saying is that that seems to be one of his trademark views.
	And it would not surprise me.
	As I say, these transsexuals, and again, I am going back to the experience my wife had at the school board rally.
	Oh, and I don't want to dwell too much on that, but these black block types, if you walked up to them to talk to them and ask them, they started beating on pots and pans so that they could make conversation impossible.
	These people are crazy.
	And these people are out in, there were not a great number of these black block types, but in face masks, all black, beating on pots and pans, so that their ears are closed to any kind of opposing point of view.
	So these are the kind of people that I can easily imagine want to take a shot at somebody like Charlie Kirk.
	Charlie Kirk, sir, if I could just bring up something you probably don't know much about, he had been attacked in a show called South Park.
	You may have.
	Yes, I've heard about that.
	Yeah, and he was a character that one of the children in that show, I mean, that show's been around since 1998, so you can't call it cutting edge, but they were making fun of Trump, calling Trump a Nazi and that he was having sexual relations with Satan and that Charlie Kirk was out there basically trying to spread Nazism and basically putting the target on this guy's back in the form of the Cartman character.
	And this has been getting a lot of attention over the past month, especially since the Minnesota shooting, because this was something Charlie talked a lot about.
	I talked a lot about what, that shooting?
	Oh, that shooting, and then also the shooting that happened in Nashville that the media would not release the manifesto, which turned out that the shooter wanted to kill white kids.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Well, they finally did unseal that manifesto.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	This is the kind of dangerous stuff because when you think about the John Brown gun clubs across the country, you think about these violent anti-fascist blocs in Portland and Seattle.
	They are disproportionately transgender trunes that are a part of this.
	Well, it certainly seems to be that way.
	And it seems that trying to change from one sex to another, I've always thought of it as a form of insanity, but this certainly encourages that point of view.
	Not only is a form of insanity, but it takes violent forms.
	Exactly.
	Yes.
	And I wonder if I could bring up one more thing.
	Yes, please.
	Think back to what happened in July 4th when there was that cell that was broken up before they could launch the attack on ICE in Texas.
	There were a number of transgenders.
	That's correct.
	They were part of that anti-fascist movement.
	I mean, this is a big moment.
	I mean, sir, I'm 41.
	I'm 41.
	I knew Charlie Kirk.
	We'll get into that.
	I saw someone on Twitter say this is the biggest political assassination in America since MLK.
	And I've been dwelling on that a lot, thinking about it, thinking about the impact that Charlie was having on campuses.
	I mean, this is a guy who had the ear of the entire Trump family.
	And I've been reading the comments that Eric, Donald Trump Jr., all Laura Trump, all, you know, J.D. Vance, all these people that he was so close with.
	And you start to realize this was the face of the MAGA youth movement on campuses across the country.
	And there were fights that broke out last night in Idaho at the state capitol in Boise.
	A bunch of people came to do a vigil for Charlie Kirk, and someone just started coming up and screaming, F. Charlie Kirk, F. Charlie Kirk.
	The guy nearly got beat to death on campus.
	Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
	So this one guy is heckling them and the people who are there to sort of a vigil for Charlie Kirk nearly beat him to death?
	Yes.
	I saw Sam Hyde has been posting about that on Twitter.
	He's been saying, realize where we are, you know, watching the people celebrate his death, watching people who have high-level positions in government and local bureaucracies, teachers, health administrators.
	Zero Hedge has this incredible, continuously updated story right now of all the people who are putting out these just shockingly gleeful messages in regards to Charlie Kirk being changed.
	Well, are any of them prominent people?
	Any of these are these names that you recognize?
	In their communities, they are.
	Well, but any names that would be nationally recognized.
	Well, I guess Matthew Dowd was just fired from MSNBC.
	Yes.
	He was fired on air.
	I think you commented about how disgusting of a swine he was for his view that if you do hateful things, what do you think is going to happen?
	Well, exactly, exactly.
	And I thought that was contemptible and despicable, but we have to give credit where its credit is due.
	MSNBC fired him.
	And the network issued an apology.
	MSNBC president Rebecca Cutler said his comments were inappropriate, insensitive, and unacceptable, and out he goes.
	And even Dowd himself has apologized.
	The public affairs officer for Fort Bragg, Guillermo Munez, one of my favorite accounts on Twitter, Aesthetica, is retweeting this.
	He came out and said Charlie Kirk deserved it.
	So this is the public official.
	Okay, now, who is this guy?
	Who is this guy who said that?
	Public affairs officer for Port Bragg, who interacts with the media.
	Yeah, he came out.
	Guillermo Munez.
	I mean, that's what's happening right now.
	Well, hold on, hold on, Lova.
	This is an employee of the United States Army is saying this.
	Yes, yeah.
	Okay, okay.
	And this kind of stuff.
	And again, you're asking if they're prominent people.
	A professor at Middle Tennessee State University just was fired for commenting on social media that was glad Charlie Kirk passed away.
	You're going to see a lot of this.
	Well, at least they are being disciplined.
	I suspect if a government employee said that, he's going to be out the door too, although it's hard to fire government employees.
	But I don't know.
	You can always find some blue-haired nut with three rings in her nose who is going to say, ah, out of boy, we need to kill more of them.
	But I'm just wondering how representative they are of any kind of larger Democrat or leftist movement.
	Now, of course, the people who are brandishing those signs that my wife saw last week, kill Nazis, not trannies.
	Of course, they don't use the word trannies.
	I'm sure they're celebrating, but those are obvious sickos.
	So I don't know.
	The prominent Democrats I've seen are all just unanimously condemning this.
	So I know it's easy to wish to attribute absolutely despicable and contemptible thinking to our opponents.
	And that was certainly my reaction to this Matthew Dowd guy.
	But we have to concede MSNBC did the right thing and fired him.
	Now, are they going to quietly let him back on the team when they think we're not looking?
	Who knows?
	But on this occasion, I think they did the right thing.
	You know, we're going to see a lot of people make some crazy comments.
	Again, Zero Hedge is talking about how Blue Sky and Reddit, these are forums.
	Blue Sky was created with the mass exodus of the left once Elon Musk took over Twitter, and it's just a celebration, apparently.
	I've never taken a dip in the waters of Blue Sky.
	I don't plan to.
	But I know that back in April of this year, sir, the Network Contagion Research Institute put out a report where they talked about how the assassination culture is spreading on the left under President Trump.
	And they pointed out that a just near majority of the left believes that an assassination of Trump or Elon Musk would be a good thing and that these attacks on the Tesla dealerships because of Elon Musk's more public stances that were heading in our direction were problematic and justified.
	Well, there certainly does seem to be a militancy on the left.
	And it's not just the black block that I'm talking about.
	Their point of view has always been, Mr. Kersey, that what you and I say is not merely wrong, but it's evil.
	It's absolutely evil.
	We're on the wrong side of history, is what I've been told.
	I've seen very close many times.
	Yeah, and to have that audacity, to have that hutzpah to say something that, again, it's just go back to that report, sir.
	38% of the respondents said that it would be at least somewhat justified to murder Trump.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Now, what's the sample here?
	1,200 U.S. adults weighed to reflect national census demographics.
	38% of the respondents said it would at least be somewhat justified to murder Trump.
	31% said the same about Musk.
	But when counting only left-leaning respondents, justification for killing Trump rose to 55% and Elon Musk, 48%.
	Okay, somewhat justified to kill them.
	That's an interesting way to phrase it.
	But no, those are, however you phrase it, those are certainly disturbing numbers.
	And the report stated, these are not isolated opinions.
	They are part of a tightly connected belief system linked to what we call left-wing authoritarianism.
	I would call it Bolshevism.
	I'm not sure what, you know, at this point.
	Well, they're not Bolsheviks.
	They're not Bolsheviks.
	Just we've got to admit that there is a line of demarcation at this point when you have individuals who are celebrating and who are saying, oh, you know, more people need to be to meet this same fate as Charlie Kirk.
	I mean, Charlie Kirk was 31 years old.
	You started this podcast out correctly saying he was on the path to being a great man.
	Charlie Kirk was a father.
	Charlie Kirk was a husband.
	Charlie Kirk had two young children that will never hug him again.
	He has a wife that will never say, I love you.
	And here, I love you back from her husband.
	He had built an absolutely fantastic organization that people on campuses across the country, college fraternities from Auburn University to Ole Miss to University of Georgia to Oklahoma State, they've all put up huge banners outside their fraternities.
	Remember Charlie Kirk.
	Remember Charlie Kirk.
	And you're seeing vigils pop up everywhere.
	Flags are going to be at half staff, sir.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	No, I understand that.
	But just to get back finally this idea about the left's hatred for its opponents, I did look up what some of the prominent Republicans have been, or sorry, Democrats have been saying.
	And just for the record, I mean, whether or not they're just doing this and they're gritting their teeth and they're crossing their fingers behind their backs, but Nancy Pelosi said it was reprehensible.
	Chuck Schumer said it's horrifying.
	Hakeem Jeffries says political violence is never acceptable in full caps.
	Gavin Ewson says it's disgusting, violent, and reprehensible.
	Josh Shapiro says it's horrifying.
	And they go on and on and on.
	Now, and look, I don't like those who always assume that our opponents are so contemptible and evil that we can never come to any common ground with them.
	I think some Democrats are decent people.
	Some of them, the ones that drift into Antifa, are indecent people who will never be reconcilable with any kind of sane view of the world.
	But and we have to be realistic about this.
	And imagine, say, I don't know, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi.
	Well, remember Nancy Pelosi's husband was attacked by this hammer-wielding weirdo.
	You know, there were some people on the right who were saying, oh, this is obviously a homosexual tryst.
	I'm just joking.
	Well, you know, there are heartless and mean-spirited people at both ends of the political spectrum.
	And I don't think that the left has a complete monopoly.
	Now, certainly, and it'd be interesting to know if you asked Democrats, would there be any political, would it be at least partly justifiable to assassinate Hakeem Jeffries?
	I wonder how many would say, well, yes.
	It'd be very interesting to know.
	I would like to think that the number would be considerably lower.
	And I think it probably would be.
	But nobody is immune to this kind of political fantasy and political fantasy of violence.
	Anyway, I have said my piece, which will probably provoke a lot of anger and frustration on the people on our side, but I think it's just too easy to fall into this trap of thinking we're all wonderful and those people are all just irredeemable servants of the devil.
	But anyway.
	They are all irredeemable, but you can no longer base social policy on those individuals within the opposition party who are voice of reason when the, I would argue, a guy who is trying to have debates and who started off, as we'll talk about in this podcast, Charlie Kirk was a very milquetoast conservative who talked about the markets, who talked about, you know, very basic things.
	I mean, he wasn't that different from your nonprofits.
	He was a Republican.
	He was a Republican.
	He was a card kid Republican who was ready to pass out a pocket constitution and probably believed that Haitians fresh off the boat were just as American as you and I when our ancestors were here before there was a United States of America.
	But his evolution is remarkable.
	Absolutely remarkable.
	It was absolutely remarkable.
	We're going to talk a lot about that, but I think it's demonstrative.
	Well, why don't you talk about that?
	You've looked into the Groiper Wars, Nick Franklin.
	Well, I've looked into a lot of things, and I'll tell you an anecdote of Charlie Kirk.
	He knew me, the real me, not Paul Kersey.
	And he was asking about, this is about 12 years ago.
	And he was asking about my experiences with nonprofits in D.C. And I said, listen, man, all they care about is ensuring that their forecasted fiscal year budget is met months before the end of that year so that they can start planning for the next year.
	They don't want you to rock the boat.
	If you rock the boat, you potentially put a spotlight from the SPLC, from the ADL, from these, what do you want to call them, Soros-funded media matter types, that kind of crap, right-wing watch.
	And that can lead to hit pieces.
	And then we get guilt by association.
	That's the way they work, sir.
	That's the way it works.
	No, yes, you were explaining that to him.
	And I told him, don't waste your life working for one of these organizations because they will use positive stories you do up until the point that you become a liability.
	It's that simple.
	You have to accept that.
	They exist self-perpetuate.
	Good for you.
	I think that was that.
	Let's hope that, well, that could very well have been valuable advice for him.
	I hope that's the problem.
	Well, he started turning point in USA.
	So I guess he listened to it.
	I'm not saying it was me, but we had.
	That was before.
	That was before he started NIPP.
	And I believe they were affiliated with one of the existing quote-unquote campus organizations, Wharton Blackwell's entity there in Arlington, Virginia.
	A leadership institute.
	Yes.
	It goes around and tries to fight for the conservative cause and America and push back against the left.
	Well, you know, it has always disgusted me when Heritage Institute, somebody tells them something about Jason Richwine.
	Jason Richwine and his PhD thesis had talked about racial differences in IQ.
	And he says, if you import people who are low IQ into the country, the average capacity and the average capability of the country is going to decline.
	Heritage knew about his PhD thesis, but some watchdog group digs up the thesis, tells Heritage, and Heritage says, bye-bye, Jason.
	There are so many stories of this kind.
	Kevin DeAna could write a book about it and he how spineless and just utterly callo these people are.
	I believe when John Derbyshire was fired from National Review, didn't National Review management actually thank the people who had informed them about his evil ways?
	I mean, on at least one occasion or several occasions, this milquetoast loser of so-called conservative organizations dumped a stalwart guy and then thanked the swine who tried to dox him.
	I mean, maybe it wasn't National Review.
	Maybe I'm confusing that with another occasion.
	It was National Review that he was writing at that time for NRO.
	The piece had come out in Talkie Bag.
	You know, it's fascinating because these college Republican type groups, you know, they'd be so afraid of having a big speaker.
	I can remember names.
	You'll probably remember some of these guys like Dan Flynn.
	Michelle Malkin was doing a lot of talks, and she was, you know, at that point, she was the flag bearer for immigration.
	And she was one of the few people who was allowed to come talk about the problem of illegal immigration.
	And she, of course, talked about legal immigration.
	And she had written that fantastic book, In Defense of Japanese Internment During World War II.
	And she's an amazing woman.
	And she was just facing just horrifying assaults and fear on campus before Turning Point USA came about.
	I mean, think about it this way.
	Charles Murray and Heather McDonald can't even go on campuses anymore because of the fear of being targeted.
	Yes, yes.
	And that, of course, is something that made Charlie Kirk so valuable.
	Yep.
	Going on a college campus, and I'd never heard of Utah Valley University, but apparently it's the biggest public university in Utah.
	I've been to that.
	That's a beautiful campus.
	Well, in any case, the fact that he had 3,000 people there listening to what he said.
	If I go to a college campus, I'm lucky to get 100 people.
	And he is saying so many wonderful, sensible things.
	He is, in terms of high profile compared to you or me, he is about 1,000 times higher on the profile scale than either of us.
	100,000 times.
	The flags are flying at half-staff.
	Yankee Stadium.
	Yes.
	Stadium last night.
	They did a moment of silence before the Yankees baseball game.
	You're seeing a lot of people who've never even wanted to talk about politics.
	Again, I never wanted to talk about politics, sir.
	I wish I didn't have to think about this stuff.
	I look at the picture of Charlie's family and I have, you know, I have young children and thinking that they're never going to see their dad again.
	It just, it broke me yesterday.
	I mean, when a friend called, I won't say who it was, but they called and they said, have you seen this video?
	And I said, what video?
	Are you talking about the North Carolina video of Irina Zaruska?
	Of course I've seen it.
	And he goes, no, no, no.
	Charlie Kirk just got shot.
	And I was like, what, what are you talking about?
	He goes, he was giving a speech on campus and he just got shot in the neck.
	There's no way he survived it.
	He's dead.
	And there's a friend who has a background in the military and shooting.
	And he explained what he thought had happened.
	I watched the video.
	Wait, wait, Winnie, in what sense was that a North Carolina video?
	Oh, no, no.
	I thought he was, I thought he called me to bring up the video of the life of the Ukrainian slaughtered by the by De Carlos, whatever his name is, the black.
	DiCarlos Brown Jr.
	DiCarlos Brown Sr.
	He's a yard bird, too, you know.
	His entire family is, sir.
	Yes, his brother, his brother's in the big house.
	Half brother, yeah, his half brother.
	Yes.
	What was Donald Trump saying?
	The bad seed poisoning the blood.
	Well, you know, we got a lot of that right here.
	What's funny is, you know, Charlie Kirk, you think about how so many people have even given up on college campuses.
	Ann Coulter is terrified of going on college campuses.
	Well, the last time she tried to go, there was such a commotion she couldn't speak.
	And she thinked the only people who helped her out were the Proud Boys.
	And you think about the last time Charles Murray went on a college campus.
	I think he was chased off and the professor who brought him on was injured as they running from this.
	They were surrounded and somebody grabbed her.
	I think she had a ponytail, grabbed her hair from behind, and jerked her neck so hard, jerked her head backwards so hard, she had a kind of whiplash injury.
	Now, that's what happens.
	That's the way these youngsters think or not think or refuse to think.
	But you know, well, just another example of Charlie Kirk's incredible profile.
	He did a daily three-hour radio talk show, the Charlie Kirk Show, which was in 2024 each day downloaded between half a million and 750,000 times.
	I mean, that is probably greater influence than, gosh.
	I mean, there are a few podcasters.
	That's probably a greater influence than any network television host, for example.
	Maybe Joe Rogan and an audience that says, I mean, Charlie Kirk was a force at a time where the right had capitulated to the left on campuses.
	Turning point USA was its growth coincided with the MAGA movement.
	And, of course, we'll talk about the battles they had with Nick Fuentez's side.
	And let's just be blunt.
	Charlie Kirk, in a lot of ways, started to use the language of the quote-unquote Gorykhorst to a far better finality in terms of getting these ideas out and saying them in a manner that was attracting a massive audience, just as Nick Fuentez has.
	And the point was, it was to an audience that is not the echo chamber.
	Exactly.
	That is the great thing.
	And that has always been my desire, in which I've been immensely frustrated, is the idea of spreading these ideas as clearly and as attractively and with as much good humor as possible to people who do not agree with us.
	And that is where I think Charlie Kirk's greatness lies.
	To go on a college campus, to go on a college campus.
	And there are 3,000 people in the audience.
	And what is it?
	Where am I wrong?
	Or what are these things called?
	Prove me wrong.
	That's actually the banner that he was standing on.
	Really sad.
	Prove me wrong.
	It took a bullet now to silence Charlie Kirk.
	Exactly.
	That's the only way left to these losers to prove him wrong is to shut him up.
	And that, of course, has been the approach that's been taken to you and me and dozens of other people.
	But by the way, the genius.
	What?
	As we're speaking, the FBI in Salt Lake City has released an image of the shooter.
	Oh, okay.
	What's he look like?
	Do you see it?
	Well, he's wearing a hat.
	What race is he?
	He appears to be a white guy.
	I would have bet any amount of money on that.
	Yeah, he's wearing glasses, and I can't tell what he's got on his shirt.
	It looks like it's Trump doing a Hill Hitler on an American flag.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Very interesting.
	But I'd like to read a tweet that Charlie Kirk did back in 2023 real quick, just to show.
	Okay, that's jumping back in time.
	It's jumping back in time, but it's important to understand what he was talking about because you think about Charlie Kirk and a lot of people on our side, they have that opinion of, oh, he's just kind of this water bucket carrier for the Republican Party and the Republican establishment.
	He was not.
	He tweeted on August 23rd, 2023, whiteness is great.
	Be proud of who you are.
	I don't think you need to say much else.
	Oh, he had, you know, if we go through some of the things that he, well, he used to be, for example, a great admirer of Martin Luther King.
	Exactly.
	He thought he was wonderful.
	But now, just in the last couple of years, he has said, I think this is great.
	I wish I'd said this myself.
	Martin Luther King is admired only because he said one thing he didn't actually believe.
	That's brilliant.
	That's brilliant.
	Yeah, of course he wanted black people to be judged on the basis of their color.
	For heaven's sake, all of this happy nonsense manufactured for white people.
	I mean, at the end of his life, he was beavering away trying to get special handouts for black people.
	What a bunch of raw.
	He and Jesse Jackson were in Memphis because they were going to shake down Coca-Cola because there weren't enough black bottlers.
	Well, they had a garbage that garbage workers strike that they were going to.
	But maybe yes, while they were at it, they were going to be able to get them.
	But they had this huge plan to go and try and make more black millionaires who had access to Coca-Cola bottling licenses.
	And that was one of the things they were doing in Memphis, along with allegedly he was with some white prostitutes that night.
	Well, he was with at least two black women that night.
	Okay.
	They were fucked this time.
	Okay.
	No, this is a well-established fact.
	Some of his close buddies who decided to spill the beans on him for one reason or another, he was with two separate black women that night.
	Not his wife, by the way, not his wife.
	Was that Ralph Abernathy who wrote that in his audio?
	Abernathy really kind of lifted the curtain on Martin Luther King.
	But back to this question, back this thing that I think, as you were suggesting, is one of his real marks of greatness is having brought an alternative point of view to what he described as islands of totalitarianism, namely American universities.
	That's absolutely 100% correct.
	That is yet another, I think, a brilliant formula or formal.
	What am I trying to say?
	It's a formulation that really describes American universities, islands of totalitarianism.
	And it took a real genius and a persistence and, as it turns out, extraordinary courage to have broken through that cordon and made it through onto these islands of totalitarianism and attracted those huge audiences.
	Nobody else can do that.
	Nobody.
	And in that sense alone, he's irreplaceable.
	Well, the only other person I could think who can do that, again, who's not just a speaker is Trump.
	Trump is the only one.
	Oh, well, okay, okay.
	But Trump.
	That's completely different.
	I mean, when's the last time he was on a college campus, though?
	We're not, we're talking about.
	I know, I know exactly what you're meaning.
	I'm just.
	I'm just trying to put into perspective the appeal and just how mass of an audience Charlie Kirk was able to get with this college tour.
	I mean, what's so sad about this is he had, he was going to be going to, I think, 10 to 15 more campuses where there was going to be audiences of equal or greater size throughout the fall.
	And all of these institutions now, hopefully these continue and they continue to bring on a lot of these really great speakers who will.
	Well, Mr. Kersey, the question is, who could replace him to do that?
	I mean, you're going to take, oh, I never can't remember.
	What's that?
	Matt Walsh would be one I could think of.
	Well, Matt Walsh, yes.
	What about, and oh, they're going to end that, oh, heaven's sake.
	No, that's it.
	That black woman, that, oh, I can't think of a name.
	Closely associated with this.
	Candace Owens.
	Yes, Candace Owens.
	Not Matt Walsh.
	He'd probably be a good choice, but would he step in?
	I mean, would the organization want him to step in?
	I mean, probably Dan Shapesha.
	Ben Shapiro.
	Ben Shapiro would love to do it.
	I think he is a pale imitation and wrong on so many subjects.
	But no, assuming that he's got, what, maybe a dozen campuses left, it's all set up, who could fill his shoes?
	I think Matt Walsh is about the best suggestion there is out there.
	Well, it's hard to realize just how important This guy and the love that he had, that so many people are coming out who are just saying things like, I don't want to talk about politics.
	I just want to live my life, but it looks like we can't do that.
	So many people on the right want to say, we just want to be left alone.
	And the thing is, all of these ideas that the left has forced on, you know, throughout your life, whether it was the destruction, again, you were born, you were born in Japan, but you know, I was born in a country where the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Shelley v.
	Kramer, was passed in 47 by the Supreme Court.
	Freedom of association was dead, long before I was born.
	And I got to taste, as I grew up, sir, I got to taste what America could have been, what America was supposed to be.
	And it motivates a lot of my philosophy.
	And I think Charlie Kirk was the same way, especially when you become a dad, you realize, you know, the great replacement is real, which he understood.
	He understood that it was not about illegal immigration.
	It was about legal immigration.
	That's right.
	And the dire consequences of the 1965 Immigration Act.
	Here's one of his quotes: The Great Replacement is not a theory, it's a reality.
	And another thing he said: the southern border matters a whole lot more than the Ukrainian border.
	That's another great formulation.
	All this stuff is entirely true.
	And it is remarkable.
	I suppose it'll be biographies of him.
	And to some degree, they will trace, they will trace his evolution.
	But it was wonderful to see him coming our way and to maintain the kind of profile.
	I think his profile got even higher as he moved our way.
	What do you think?
	Unquestionably.
	Because at that point, you started to realize, and this is something you and I have talked about off the record.
	And I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but when you see people like Clay Travis with Outkick.com, where all their stories that built up his site to be able to be bought by Fox News, they were all race-related stories.
	And you start, you know, when people who are accomplished, who don't think about the subject, like you and I and Kevin Deanna and others, and Peter Bremlo, who, you know, everything that we see, we see through a racial lens.
	And we just want, I want to live in a world where we don't have to do that because we've already implemented social policies that protect and have the structures in place to ensure that any impediments to our posterity living in a peaceful society are gone.
	And I think about Charlie Kirk and about the courage that he had to face down, again, he was resolute when he faced down the Groipers, sir, and the Nick Fuentez and Tifada.
	And then he had the courage, though, to listen to the ideas that they brought up and realize they're not wrong about some of this stuff.
	That's right.
	That's absolutely right.
	You know, another thing about Charlie Kirk, he never struck me as mean-spirited.
	There's nothing vicious about him.
	And that is not something that we can always say about the people who take our positions.
	And that to me is a remarkable, a remarkable characteristic.
	And for a guy who took the kind of criticism he took, it is especially remarkable to maintain a kind of good nature and recognition that one's opponents are not all evil.
	I think that's a very, very important quality.
	And I think Charlie Kirk had that.
	Even when many of those people are of the opinion that he is evil.
	I mean, that goes without saying.
	Yeah, no, I know.
	And that's, and again, that's, that's one of the harsh realities when you face down doxing threats.
	I mean, Jared, you've, you, you wrote Paved with Good Intentions.
	It was published by a mainstream publisher.
	And you were writing at a time when the country was, you know, what, 75 to 80% white.
	1990, yep, maybe 70% white.
	Yeah.
	The decline had certainly begun.
	It had.
	It had.
	But you had all these combustible moments in the early 90s where you kind of thought we're heading toward a place where this stuff is going to break out.
	And I'm positioning American Renaissance to be the moderate voice as not a spokesperson for all white people, but as someone who can be approached by the mainstream media to have conversations so that our ideas are at least allotted a spot at the table.
	And Charlie Kirk forced the old guard over by saying the pocket constitutions aren't working anymore.
	This is for a people that are these ideas are vastly incompatible with the new population that is replacing the old America.
	Yep.
	He succeeded at what I had hoped to do.
	I mean, that's, I mean, he would not, he, at least in his current iteration, was not going as far as I would wish to go, but at least he was, as you say, giving these ideas a seat at the table.
	And not just the table, at the head table, a close personal friend of Donald Trump and his entire family.
	This was profoundly important, and that's a huge part of his greatness.
	And of course, that is why so many people hated him.
	Well, I mean, I'll say this, and I don't know how much you want to get into it, but there was, of course, all the push for doing everything you could to criminalize anti-Semitism on campuses.
	And Charlie Kirk pushed back and said, what about anti-whitism?
	Right.
	Anti-white of what campuses are.
	It's not.
	That's right.
	It's like this incident that happened at Florida State where the entire Trump administration pounced on this one pro-Palestinian white girl who, I don't know, pushed a Jewish kid and they pounced.
	And this is an international story.
	And Charlie Kirk was tweeting about all these stories about white people and the anti-white consequences and the hate that white students were facing, saying this is just as big, this is just as big of a problem, if not bigger.
	It's a much bigger problem.
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	Donald Trump's obsession with anti-Semitism in the Ivy League, for heaven's sake at a time when, what, five of the presidents in the Ivy Leagues are Jews.
	No, here's another quote from Charlie Kirk.
	Jewish communities have been pushing the exact kind of hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them.
	He said that.
	Yep, he said that.
	And that is remarkable stuff.
	And, well, as you'll recall the great Joe Silbren, one of his commentaries on Jewish power in the United States, he says, once you start talking about Jews, the way, in fact, Charlie Kirk is talking about them, he says, pretty soon you get the message.
	You must always characterize us as an absolutely powerless and persecuted outgroup.
	Otherwise, we will crush you.
	Joe Silburn did say that.
	And Charlie Kirk, again, you look at where he was in the first Trump administration, where the quote-unquote gripper wars were the hot thing on campus.
	It was always these guys were like, we're going to go get him and we're going to talk about all this stuff.
	And we're going to be like, why aren't you talking about the stuff that really matters?
	Guys, guess what?
	He did.
	And they put a bullet in his head.
	Oh, I see.
	I see.
	Yes, he did start talking about things.
	And I've said this on this podcast already.
	had the innate ability to look at both sides of an argument, even if it was someone to the right of him and weigh the pros and cons of that.
	And then he was one of the few people, sir.
	I was reading Steve Saylor's little obituary to him.
	And he pointed out that Charlie Kirk's show was one of the only shows that platformed him and gave him the opportunity to talk about his book, Noticing.
	And what happened?
	NPR.
	NPR wrote a hit piece on Charlie Kirk for having done that.
	For having done that.
	They wrote, NPR wrote this.
	Recent guests on Kirk's top 10 podcasts include a slavery apologist, a pastor who believes women should not have the right to vote, and Steve Saylor, a longtime promoter of racist pseudoscience.
	Turning point spokesperson said, NPR told NPR that Kirk condemns white supremacy and doesn't always agree with his guest, but he disputed the characterization of Saylor as a white supremacist.
	Pardon us if we have a healthy skepticism of what the approved of regime institutional mainstream label of racism is, because we've seen it be abused time and time again.
	Okay, so that's what Charlie Kirk's spokesman said to NPR.
	Yep.
	The Atlantic.
	The Atlantic.
	Again, this shows you the gatekeeping that the corporate media does for anybody because they're paying attention to what guests are coming on.
	I mean, just imagine what would have happened if Charlie Kirk had said, hey, you know, let's have Jared Taylor on to talk about the white race.
	That would be a great conversation.
	The amount of hit pieces would have been enormous.
	But from having Steve Saylor on, The Atlantic was up in arms that they had violated the mainstream media's ban on allowing him to speak in public.
	And they said Kirk discussed crime stats with the white supremacist Steve Saylor in a way that veered toward race science.
	Oh, good grief.
	The statistics, the statistics.
	Just quote the statistics and you're a scientific racist.
	And Jared, I'm a huge, and Mr. Taylor, I'm a huge fan, a huge fan of Steve Saylor, but Steve is a puppy in a lot of ways.
	All he does is he just, he leads you to these ideas and it's like, okay, great.
	What about it?
	And then he goes, oh, I've got another idea over here.
	There's a baseball game on.
	I'm going to talk to you about L.A. Dodger stats.
	I think Steve Saylor is rendering an enormous service.
	I don't disagree with that.
	Yes.
	And if he's invited on these major programs to go up as far as he's willing to go, I say, God bless him, Mr. Kersey.
	Oh, well, no, no.
	And that's one of the funny things because over the past month, I started really following Charlie Kirk over the past month because it was becoming obvious the people that I really care about that are saying the great things.
	Kevin Deanna is one of them.
	You've given Kevin the opportunity and he's running with it now with his new program, Identity Politics, and the friendships we have with a lot of mainstream right-wing people.
	Aaron McIntyre, the stuff he's talking about.
	And you look at Charlie Kirk and you know the audience he has.
	He's a top 10 podcaster, as NPR said in terms of his audience size.
	He's going out to college campuses and he's bringing up these topics.
	And it was so weird.
	He would see an article about crime and then he'd say, hey, Steve Saylor, I think you need to comment.
	And he'd throw the softball up to Steve, but he'd do that with his audience.
	So his audience was now becoming ingratiated and integrated with a thought that was, unfortunately, for so long kept on the pages of UNS or V-Dare and was anathema to conservatives who were too afraid to open that door.
	Yes, yes.
	And it's remarkable to imagine where Charlie Kirk would have been, both professionally or politically in five years from now.
	What he would be saying, or 10 years from now, that guy had potentially an absolutely open-ended, a boundless possibility ahead of him.
	Didn't Donald Trump say that he could be president someday?
	Wasn't there a problem?
	A lot of people that I greatly admire on Twitter have said this guy could be president.
	This guy can be a chief of staff.
	This guy could transition from being this figure who is the most predominant speaker on college campuses, who is dynamic and who is unafraid.
	I mean, that's one of the things that Solzhenitsyn talked about about the West, about Western civilization at that Harvard address in 1968, sir, where he talked about just the lack of courage in the West.
	Oh, God.
	It's amazing to think about our ancestors who leapt out of foxholes and charged the barricades, you know, who marched up Seminary Ridge and just the extraordinary things we did.
	And now, look at us now.
	It's just incredible how godless and spineless and invertebrate we've become.
	I was going through, it's funny you say that because I was going through personal hell back in 2020 when the George Floyd summer started.
	And I called you and I said I was on Monument Avenue where they had tried to burn down the Confederate Museum and walking by the statues.
	And you said, you have a duty to get that noose off of Jefferson Davis's neck.
	And I tried.
	I got up on it and people were like, what are you doing?
	And I was like, I'm getting this off.
	And this crowd kind of gathered around.
	And then about two weeks later, they tore the Jefferson Davis statue down.
	And now it's being displayed in a celebratory manner at the Valentine Museum in Richmond.
	It's en route to the museum in Los Angeles with a bunch of other monuments that have been torn down.
	And it was a disgraceful moment because I realized I might be the only person in the country who wasn't just speaking about this stuff.
	But I was up there and this was this.
	This was 2020.
	And I just thought to myself, what are we doing?
	Is this even worth it?
	This is just too much.
	Seeing what you call the year America went mad and smelling it, you could smell the fire that had raged at the museum still.
	You could see the cops who were basically told to stand down by the black mayor, Mayor Stoney, I think was his name.
	And you think about what Charlie Kirk was willing to do.
	You know, you weren't at the Deplorable Ball back in 2017 when Mike Cernovich and Pasovic put on that event.
	There were 3,000 to 4,000 Antifa outside the building.
	They wanted to kill people who were inside.
	And if you recall, James O'Keefe actually found out that they were trying to figure out a way to put gas into the building.
	It was insane what was going on at that period.
	And I remember walking into the Deplorable and how palpable it was looking at these people in the eye and just realizing if the police weren't here, they would rush in.
	Oh, I think there's no question about it.
	There's no question about it.
	Same thing that your wife encountered with those troons.
	And think, though, they've now been marinating in this idea that Charlie Kirk is a Nazi.
	Donald Trump is a Nazi.
	They're white supremacists.
	They deserve this violence.
	And Charlie Kirk wasn't cowed by any of this.
	He was going further.
	He was realizing that the hours late, these are the conversations that have to happen for our posterity.
	And I can't think of a better tribute to say than a guy who you said he was on the road to being a great man.
	I think we see with the outpouring of love from people who never met him and the adulation he's getting from the people who did know him.
	He was a great man.
	Well, apparently Donald Trump thinks so.
	He's going to get the Medal of Freedom posthumously.
	Really?
	Is that just out?
	Yes.
	He's going to get the Medal of Freedom posthumously.
	Well, I can't think of a more symbolic act to show the left than also given to the Pat Buchanan as well.
	Well, that's that, you know, that's that's just it.
	It needs to go to Pat Buchanan while he's still alive.
	I'm delighted that there's at least something of a movement going on there.
	I wish that there were levers I could pull so that or push that would make it possible for Pat Buchanan to get the Medal of Freedom.
	But be that as it may.
	Well, this really has been a remarkable event, and it's, I think, it will be looked back upon as a kind of turning point.
	A lot of it will depend on who this guy, and I looked at the picture while we were online here: the guy in the dark glasses and the cap, and he's clearly a white guy, and he does look college-age or a little older.
	Some to some degree will depend on what this guy thinks.
	Now, they may not take him alive.
	I hope that they do.
	Ordinarily, I'm perfectly happy for these creeps to be shot to death by the police, saves trial time, saves everything else.
	But it will be very interesting in this case to find out what he thinks.
	And if this stuff will come out in trial, he will, of course, have social media.
	Maybe it'll be an open book.
	Of course, you never know.
	The FBI will say, ah, we're going to go over this and nobody else is going to see it.
	But in any case, I think we have to go over one more thing before we adjourn, sir.
	What was Charlie Kirk's last tweet?
	Wasn't it about Irina Zarutska?
	And wasn't he saying this must be, there must be a political reaction to this.
	White people must never let her be forgotten or something like that.
	But this is a political event that we must never, we never ignore something.
	You probably maybe have the text.
	I get it right here.
	Charlie, what did he say?
	Charlie Kirk had 5.6 million followers on X. And he said, if we want things to change, it's 100% necessary to politicize the senseless murder of Irina Zarutska because it was politics that allowed a savage monster with 14 priors to be free on the streets to kill her.
	Very good.
	Very good.
	Yeah, he had just gotten into a battle with Van Jones on CNN where he said that it was racial and he didn't back down from that.
	He was tweeting about the official Black Lives Matter account justifying the murder of Irina Zarutska.
	And then he said, he talked about how Van Jones had said that all white people have a virus in their brain is legitimately one of the most racist things I've ever heard.
	And I actually tweeted at him that morning.
	The morning he died, I tweeted at him.
	And I said, maybe, maybe Van is actually onto something, but it's not a virus.
	It's an autoimmune, it's an immunity that has been desensitized for decades.
	Well, at some point, people like you have to tap into it and realize that it's okay to take our own side.
	Well, his words about Irina Zarutska could be his epitaph as far as I'm concerned.
	They show you that he knew what was important.
	He saw what was essential.
	And he realized that white people have got to stand up for their own.
	White people have a point of view.
	White people have a destiny.
	White people have a heritage.
	And if they don't look after their own interests, surely no one else will.
	I'd like to bring up one more quote that he did, sir.
	It's got 61 million views right now.
	All right.
	So the day that he passed away, the day that he was murdered, assassinated.
	Forgive me for saying that.
	He was assassinated.
	Yes.
	He tweeted out a picture of Irina Zarutska with her hand in her mouth looking up at a black stabber.
	And she's just, she's looking like she's looking for help.
	She's just begging him.
	That is almost an epitaph for America.
	It is.
	If we don't do the right thing, that will be the picture of our being finished off.
	And here's what Charlie Kirk wrote: America will never be the same.
	And I think the fitting epitaph for Charlie Kirk and the life that he lived, the short 31 years that he lived on this earth, sir, and as an American, America will never be the same because you stood and had the courage to stand for your people, even if you weren't ready to state that you were standing for your people because he was heading in that direction.
	Oh, he was getting that way.
	Well, very good.
	Very good.
	Well, thank you, Mr. Kersey, for coming on to such short notice.
	And rest in peace.

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