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March 5, 2018 - Radio Renaissance - Jared Taylor
56:10
What’s in Store for Whites in South Africa?
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Welcome ladies and gentlemen to a special edition of Radio Renaissance.
On this occasion we have a special guest, Dan Root.
He is familiar probably to many listeners.
He has written several articles from his native South Africa for American Renaissance and has spoken at two American Renaissance conferences.
Dan Root is an author and activist and he is founder of the Pro-Afrikaans Action Group Or Prague, P-R-A-A-G.
And his organization can be found at Prague.org.
That's P-R-A-A-G.org.
And I have asked him to join us to talk about recent developments in South Africa.
So thank you very much, Mr. Root, for joining me on the program today.
It's my pleasure.
It's always good talking to you.
Yes, we follow the developments in South Africa with great interest because, in a sense, we think of the whites of South Africa as the canaries in the coal mine.
What is happening in South Africa is a harbinger for perhaps the future Africanization of the entire planet, something that you've described with great eloquence in one of the forums that we put together on American Renaissance.
You are living the future of any white society that becomes a minority, although of course Every society has its own coloration and characteristics, the one in South Africa being in some respects a particularly intense and worrying example of whites becoming minority.
But the development that is of particular interest to me, and of course to our listeners, is the prospect of the change in the South African constitution.
Just this week, the South African Parliament voted apparently in favor of a motion that would begin the process to amend the Constitution so that it would allow for confiscation of white-owned land.
In other words, the government would take the land without compensation.
Can you tell me some of the background of the vote on this and whether, if the Constitution is changed, it would allow government confiscation of really any private property or would this be limited simply to land?
Well, I think that, you know, to answer the second part of your question first, It would allow them to confiscate any property because the, you know, the demarcation between farmland and, say, urban land is not really that clear.
Because you've got around the cities, you've got certain smaller pieces of land that we call small holdings or small farms.
And those then could obviously be confiscated too, as part of this whole program that they were envisaging.
And you know, once you're taking small farms around the cities, you know, why not take houses in the In the suburbs that have, say, that are on pieces of land that might be slightly bigger than the normal stand or the normal piece of urban or suburban land that you may find, you know, a piece of what you'd call in the US probably a lot, I suppose.
Yes.
Yeah, so it's all very murky what the effects of this are going to be, but one can prepare oneself for the worst, I think.
Well, I do know that in your northern neighbor, Zimbabwe, the expropriations started with farmland, but then they moved on to businesses as well.
And it seemed that nothing was really immune from targeting.
But at least it appears that South Africa is going through the official process of changing its constitution.
And I suppose what would be a target for confiscation would depend on What the ultimate constitutional language ends up being.
Has the language been voted yet or is this simply a preliminary step?
I think this is a preliminary step, you know, they passed a motion and now it's been referred to a committee that's supposed to, there's a special committee which normally occupies itself with changes to the constitution precisely, but it doesn't have a lot of work to do normally because I think it's only happened two or three times that the constitution had some minor change over the last 20 years but this committee will then come up with a language and then it will report back on sometime in August this year but you know normally the ANC government doesn't move very fast on anything so but in this case they it's a matter of years not I mean a matter of months not years as would normally be the case so they they seem to be moving quite fast with this whole thing.
And then I suppose, given the kind of language that is reported back by the committee, then all that is required is, I believe, a three-quarters vote within the Parliament for this constitutional amendment to go through?
Yes, correct.
I mean, there's some doubt as to whether it's a two-thirds majority or a 75% one.
Normally, to change A clause in the Constitution only requires a two-thirds majority, which if the ANC votes with the EFF, as they did for this motion, they've already got.
But there are some clauses in the Constitution which are supposed to require 75% majority, and I think the one on property is probably one of those.
I'm not 100% certain, but in the media and in the comments, I've seen both figures mentioned.
But we'll have to go into it quite deeply to find out whether it's a 75% or just a 66% One.
But I think, you know, given what's happened during the motion, only the main opposition party and and two or three of the smaller opposition parties voted against it.
And the others all voted for it, including the more conservative Zulu Nationalist Party in Qatar.
They were somehow also persuaded that they should.
I mean normally they are at loggerheads with the ANC but somehow they also voted with them
on this one.
You mentioned the EFF earlier.
That is the Economic Freedom Fighters led by Julius Malema.
He was at one point a leader of the ANC Youth Wing, was he not?
And he seems to be a particularly radical anti-white leader of those who wish to dispossess whites.
Yes, exactly.
He's come to play a very prominent role in South African politics, even though his party supposedly only has 8% of the vote.
In the media and elsewhere, he's presented as a kind of an alternative leader.
to the current ANC president and you know our media, the sort of liberal mainstream media that
we've got here, they've also built him up as this important figure representing the black youth
and the more radical side of black thinking.
And he's given ample time on TV and on radio and so on.
So, you know, he has a lot of influence in that way on South Africa.
And I think this whole thing is actually being driven by him.
And the ANC has got their backs to the wall, in a sense, because they are very scared of losing votes to the left.
And therefore they are now almost forced into following Malema's very radical line on the whole issue of land ownership in South Africa.
Well, I saw that Julius Malema was quoted at the time of this vote as saying, the time for reconciliation is over.
Now is the time for justice.
We must ensure that we restore the dignity of our people without compensating the criminals who stole our land.
Is this an attitude that is popular with blacks in general, or is there a more cautious attitude among ordinary blacks, so far as you can tell?
And I'm just surprised that this line is being promoted by the media, as you explained.
Yes.
Well, I think as elsewhere in the world, we've got a serious problem with the media because, you know, a lot of these, as is the case in the US and Europe and everywhere else, a lot of these journalists have been trained at universities that are generally left of center or even cultural Marxist and so on.
And it's exactly the same here.
Our media are way left of the rest of society.
And if one looks at the actual surveys and opinion polls and so on among blacks, I think there was a researcher from the Institute of Race Relations, which is a very old think tank in South Africa, kind of a liberal think tank that started in the first half of the 20th century.
But they're generally quite conscientious and honest about the things they do.
So they had a survey and found that only Only 1% of blacks in general consider the whole issue of land ownership as an important political issue.
Their number one issue was jobs and maybe education and issues like that.
But to Malema and to the people in the media and some of the people at the universities as well, for them, the land issue is the most important thing.
And that is why we are now You know, faced with this very radical choice in South Africa, not because of the general opinion among blacks out there, but it's because, you know, there's a certain radical elite that's driving it, and they've got a lot of media backing as well, and political backing in the form of Malema's party.
Well, it seems that South Africa has very much the same problem that basically all Western nations have.
A media that's driven by a kind of radical leftist mentality that does not reflect the people at large.
And it would be a great misfortune if South Africa were to go down the path of Zimbabwe in this attempt to drive whites off the land.
But I was surprised that The ANC Rural Affairs Minister, a fellow, I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name properly, but Gugil Nequinti, he goes on to say that the ANC unequivocally supports the principle of land expropriation without compensation.
No doubt about it, land shall be expropriated.
But traditionally, the ANC has been opposed to that, hasn't it?
The ANC generally supported the willing seller, willing buyer system, whereby land was going to change hands only at market prices.
Yes, exactly.
That's what they started with immediately after 1994, where, you know, they also actually redistributed, as they termed it, a lot of land through a process of land claims.
And that's been, especially in the foreign media, they've completely ignored that.
You know, I've seen a lot of Reports in all the major On all the major news wires like Reuters and AP and AFP and so on we don't even mention this and in terms of That program which they called also a land reform program.
They've already redistributed about 80,000 farms in South Africa.
But the unfortunate thing for the government is that there they gave the blacks a choice
between cash and land.
And only 8% took the land, 92% took the cash.
So a lot of that land then reverted back to the government and I think they're now sitting on something like 4,000 farms themselves, which they don't know what to do with.
And a lot of the other land, I think, ended up being rented back to the former owners.
So that's why.
And they spent a lot of money on that process as well.
It cost billions.
And they're sort of running out of money with this process.
And that's also another reason why they are now looking at just taking the land without compensation and just confiscating it from the white owners.
Well, that sounds like quite a ridiculous program, really, giving potential farmers a choice between money and land.
Were they supposed to use this money to buy farms?
It seems utterly misguided.
If you could have the choice between taking land, which presumably you had to actually farm, or taking money, I can imagine lots of people just preferring to take the money.
Yes, exactly.
But you see that whole program, it was also a completely, you know, founded on completely
bogus versions of South African history because they, some of it was connected to land that
was previously taken from blacks as part of the homeland consolidation program where they
they were actually compensated in the past.
So this was the second round of compensation they got for that because if say that process worked either by through compensating blacks with cash or land at the time.
So they could get another piece of land closer to a black tribal area if their land in the more metropolitan white area was taken or they could get cash for it which they took at the time as well.
So this was the second round of that sort of thing but None of these so-called land claims that the government recorded, they actually went out.
But you know, once one goes into the actual mechanics of the whole thing, it's always driven by offshore NGOs that are funded from overseas and so on.
And the blacks themselves didn't actually lodge the land claims.
Those forms that were filled in, in the actual legal process, of lodging a claim, it was all done for them by these foreign funded left-wing NGOs that operate in South Africa.
And in that way, we landed up with 80,000 so-called land claims.
And somebody went on the record and said that not even one of these claims would be, you know, Yeah, it would stand any scrutiny in a court of law.
For example, if the previous owner had to sue that this person was not allowed, you know, was not entitled to this land claim, he would probably lose the case.
And there were some cases and a lot of the farmers won the cases.
But somehow, I mean, a lot of the agricultural unions and especially the main one, AgriSA, They said, OK, well, let's get this out of the way and then everybody can be happy and we all have our farms and then we can just get on with life.
But obviously, it hasn't worked out that way because now we've got a new round of so-called land redistribution.
And now it's founded on the very radical principle of we just take your land without compensation, similar to what they did in Zimbabwe.
Right.
Well, I understand that your new president, Cyril Ramaphosa, has got a big job on his hands.
In any case, trying to get the South African economy back on track after some years of deterioration in the hands of Jacob Zuma.
But it seems to me that if he wants any kind of foreign investment or any kind of foreign recognition, the idea of supporting the notion that the government can take private property without compensation, that's certainly going to scare away a great deal of foreign investment, will it not?
It is.
I can't imagine any foreign investor wanting to invest in a place where you can confiscate these assets without compensation.
Now, people are also talking about it and saying that all of this is actually illegal in terms of many of the treaties signed by South Africa.
South Africa has a big treaty with the European Union, for example.
So, if BMW has a factory in South Africa and the government decides to Expropriated They would be forced to pay compensation in Germany.
That's for sure.
So It's I don't I don't think the ANC government will go off to foreign assets and factories for now, but But they specifically targeting these Afrikaner family farms out there that do not have any foreign government support and Of course, and therefore they are quite vulnerable to this kind of action.
Well, I suppose depending on how the constitutional amendment were worded or whatever new law or regulations based on it were worded, it could be done in such a way that it made it very clear that it was targeting only farmland, for example, or who knows, maybe particular kinds of farmland that were based on particular kinds of claims.
But I would think that this is a very unnerving principle for any foreign potential investor.
It is.
Some of the lawyers have also commented on it, saying that the concept, the legal concept of property in South Africa, it's really a general concept.
So it can include land.
It can even include intellectual property.
It could be anything, any asset.
is property.
So even I suppose in this amendment they could circumscribe it in a certain way but the notion of property legally in South Africa is a very broad one.
So if chances are that Everything would then be vulnerable to being expropriated or confiscated and not only farmland But also suburban houses or yes or factories or businesses, but we've already got an arsenal of laws You know which has forced Business owners to give free
free shares in their businesses to blacks and to various black groups.
And it's becoming increasingly difficult to do any business without having a majority black ownership of 51%.
Well, that's all my understanding.
What's the name of this program?
It's got some sort of fancy name, does it not?
Yes, yes.
First they called it Black Economic Empowerment.
And then they added another, it was called BEE and everybody talked about bee, you know, as in the insect.
But then that wasn't enough and they went a step further and they had a new program called Broad Based Black Economic Empowerment.
And that designated an even more radical form of it where not only the ownership of the business was a criterion for deciding whether something was black owned or not, but whether how many blacks you had on your payroll and whether you yourself had black suppliers.
So, for example, a black owned business that had white suppliers would not get a good rating in terms of this whole system.
black companies that rate, it's like a ratings agency, that rate all businesses in South
Africa as to whether they are black owned or BEE enough to do business with other corporations
or with the government.
I mean, for the government, it's almost impossible for any business that's got any white sort
of content to get a contract.
But even now for the major corporations, you can't do business with them unless you've got a very good rating in terms of the BEE regulations.
So it's a very complicated system.
It's a sort of a communist system.
That has been translated into sort of capitalist terms.
That's the way I see it.
Well then, in effect, it seems to me there is already a precedent for uncompensated confiscation.
If, after all, in order to do business with the government or do business with some big company that requires a high BEE rating, you have to already give away a portion of your company to black shareholders?
Is that how it works?
Or do the black shareholders actually have to pay something for this at below market rates?
How does that actually work?
Yes, well, you're exactly right in that there is already that precedent.
In theory, the blacks somewhere along the line have to pay for their shares in the business.
But in practice, they don't pay because they get normally they would get options on those shares.
And then after a few years, if the share price hasn't risen, Then those options would simply lapse and they would get
other options and to make sure that in the end, they do get the benefit and they get the
shares for nothing basically.
There was one recent case where one of the major corporations in South Africa, the oil
from coal company that used to belong to the state but was privatized quite a while ago,
about 20, 30 years ago.
It's one of the biggest companies in South Africa.
They had a program, Sassol.
Sasol, yes.
And they had a program like that, but because of the oil price that went down and together with it, other forms of fuel, of course, all of these black shareholders ended up being so-called underwater on the scheme.
And then they simply came.
They're busy now putting a new program into place, and it's costing the company billions of dollars to do that.
And the company is taking the losses, not the supposed black shareholders, and they will get a new round of free shares.
And hopefully, you know, next time the shares will go up in value and they will participate in this increase in value in the shares.
So, yeah, they can't really lose.
It's a sort of, yeah.
And in the end, they only pay for the shares on the same day that they sell them.
So they get something for nothing, definitely.
Does this work for collards or Indians or who benefits from BEE?
Well, ironically, I had a discussion with a black woman just recently about this whole issue.
And she told me, yes, I've got a business.
I'm a ratings agency for BEE.
I've been accredited by the government.
You've got to be accredited for that sort of thing.
And then she explained the whole process to me.
And even Yeah, some coloreds and Indians, they do qualify for that.
But it is sort of, they get fewer points than blacks.
Oh gosh!
And a black woman gets more points than a black man, for example.
And ironically, a foreign African, say from Zimbabwe or Malawi or any other African country, if he had arrived in South Africa before 1994, before the A and C took over, then he's considered black.
But if he immigrated here after 1994, then he's not considered black according to the BEE rules and regulations.
So he could be even blacker in complexion than a local black, which many of them are.
But he wouldn't qualify for BEE because he's not considered black in terms of the regulations.
This is quite fascinating.
In a way, though, this is, in some respects, an almost bigger story than the change in the Constitution, because this seems to have been creeping into every corner of the South African economy.
Or are there small companies, maybe small family-owned companies, that are exempt from BE?
I suppose sole proprietorships.
Yes, yes.
There are certain sole proprietorships and small businesses.
If your turnover is, say, less than a million dollars, then generally you would be exempted from this.
So I think it would be possible for some white businesses to actually split up into very small companies and then stay under the radar screen and not be under the obligation to, you know, to introduce these measures.
But then in practice, of course, at a certain level, if you want to Trade with one of the bigger corporations if you want to get an order from them and so on.
They require a thick pile of documents for you to fill in where you would then have to state all the facts regarding your ownership and your employees, how many black and white employees you've got and so on.
And then you're not only rated on the ownership but also on your number of black employees and in practice then a lot of people then would actually start employing blacks or getting rid of their whites and so on in order to get their rating up.
Even in small businesses, yes.
I would imagine that the people who grant these ratings, these rating agencies, they then therefore wield a considerable amount of power, and this being Africa, I suppose some of them are on the take, so that it is possible to buy one's way into a good BEE rating.
I imagine there must be scandals of that kind as well.
Oh, yes.
You know, we've had a whole lot of scandals around this Indian family, the Guptas, who were also friends of the previous president, Jacob Zuma.
And they ran their businesses as Indians, but they also somehow got good B.E.
ratings.
And I'm sure they did bribe some people along the way.
But the whole, yes, so you now understand how the whole system works and that's why...
I think the government is making this move on the farmers or against them, because around these farms and in rural areas and even outside the major cities, you've got a whole lot of sort of undercover small businesses operating on those farms, you know, in tourism, in hospitality and guest houses.
And so on.
And we've why it's have been able to create an alternative informal economy where they survive.
And with some of them even prosper because they hit upon something which might be quite lucrative and they're able then to operate outside the mainstream economy and they want to now get at those people because that's sort of the last outpost of white economic activity is In these rural areas and around farms and agriculture, a lot of these farms also supply poor whites with free food.
You know, if they've got a surplus of certain produce, they would actually distribute it for free towards the poor whites who are struggling.
And they're now hitting upon them.
And yeah, you say it's a very diabolical It's probably the most anti-white system that's ever existed in the world.
And the agricultural land is an important part of the whole puzzle.
Well, yes, this certainly does sound diabolical.
And it makes me and many observers from outside of South Africa wonder, is there really a future for white people in that country?
And I know this thought must cross your mind frequently.
What do you see the ultimate outcome for the whites who have lived in South Africa now for so many generations?
Yes, it is a very Uncertain environment to find oneself in and a lot of the young people of course are Looking abroad and going overseas but probably that's part of the Unofficial government policy is to precisely get the younger generation of wines to leave the country and then eventually the remaining white population will be a
old and they would eventually just die out and therefore they would be able to get rid
of us without actually having to do anything more drastic.
So it's by the slow squeeze on the whites that they are actually able to perform what
is in fact a form of ethnic cleansing against us.
But on the other hand, there are a certain number of whites who are getting more and
more irate and they feel that this is a great injustice that's being done to us.
and...
And I don't know how widespread that is, but over the last few weeks, When after the news had broken of the confiscation of land or expropriation of land without compensation, you know, a lot of whites are threatening to to resist this, that if they had to start taking the farms that they would, you know, arm themselves and resist that.
So that is a real possibility.
And in fact, the president Ramaphosa, has just said over the last few days that, you know, this is all it's not as serious as it sounds and he doesn't want people to start, you know, having war talk and so on.
So they've definitely picked up this reaction from at least a section of the whites that they would now have to make a stand.
And this will be the last stand around the remaining white owned farms.
Well, how realistic is that?
The idea of, well, perhaps this is not something that one should... Well, it's impossible to predict how people would react, but it seems to me that in modern day South Africa, it's unlike the time of the Boer War, It's a little bit difficult for me to imagine enough whites taking a stand and prepared to defend their property with weapons in order for that to make much of a difference.
I mean, after all, now the armed forces are entirely under black command, are they?
Are they not?
It just seems to me that if that reaction would lead to just slaughter.
Yes, it's difficult to say how the whole process will play out.
But then, you know, our armed forces, even though they are under black control, you know, people don't really have much respect for it.
And a lot of the soldiers also, it's also a kind of a welfare system for the ANC and all their so called soldiers that were languishing camps all over Africa.
and being supported by the ex-Soviet Union and East Germany.
So a lot of them are old and a lot of them have AIDS as well.
They're on anti-retroviral medications.
So unless they recruit a new army, as it were, it's probably not worth much.
I see.
These are armed forces.
These are so-called peacekeepers in various countries?
Is that what you're talking about?
Yes, that's correct.
Yes.
And yeah, I think that the more or less operational forces are mostly outside of the country.
in the Congo and a few other countries in Africa where they keep the peace for the UN and get paid a certain amount of money for that.
The funds probably originate from the US and other major Western countries that fund the UN, that in turn then pays the South African Defence Force to keep the peace in the Congo.
But I think that somebody, a friend of mine, once made the point that one of the major errors that the ANC has made all along is to imagine that South Africa is just another African country.
And a lot of the foreign observers think of us that way, too.
We are now just another African country.
But once you visit South Africa, you will see that it's It's not the case.
I mean, if you go across the border to any other African country, you can immediately see the difference in the standard of living and the degree of organization in society.
And a lot of the whites also have roots here.
So we're much better organized and we're more numerous and we have very deep roots here.
So it's not going to be that easy to uproot us and, you know, to drive us simply from the land as they seem intent in doing.
You know, I mentioned to you that over this weekend I spent some time with my son on a farm not too far from Johannesburg, where we did some mountain bike riding together with kids from his school.
And that family that lives on that farm, they've been there since 1838.
They fought the British on that farm.
And so, you know, it's all part of the family history and so on.
So it's difficult to imagine that these people will just give up their land, you know, without a shot being fired.
And when you go north in the country, ironically, the province where with the least white people is the Limpopo province.
I think whites there constitute only 1% of the population.
But in that province, I've seen A kind of, even I would say, even call it a sort of a radical mentality in that province, in the sense that the whites there just don't let themselves be pushed around by the black authorities.
And I've even met some people who, when they get stopped by a black policeman, they would pull a gun on him and kind of tell him to move off.
So, you know, and they do all sorts of bizarre things.
The same person dropped a snake into the police vehicle, which sent...
All of them running for the hills because they, you know, blacks, our blacks are generally quite afraid of snakes.
So they can do all sorts of things up there.
And I imagine that in that area is where if there's going to be any form of conflagration or violence breaking out, it will be in that northern part of the country where the whites are In a very small minority, but they are very organized and they also have a strong sense of community and kind of cultural bonds and so on, a lot more than in other parts of the country.
They also tend to be more right wing than the other farmers in the rest of the country.
They also belong to the so-called Transvaal Agricultural Union, whereas in the rest
of the country, the farmers belong to the more liberal Agri-SA Farmers Union. So it's all going to be very
interesting to see how this whole thing plays out.
Well, it still seems very risky.
I can imagine the farm that you just described where you had spent time.
Perhaps there are enough menfolk there to defend their property with firearms.
But then, would that be a signal for Farmers all around the country to take the same view.
It seems to me that because there's such so much dispersion that people could be dispossessed piecemeal.
It's just hard to imagine a kind of central authority operating in a way that does defend whites.
After all, it's not as though there is sort of an area in which whites are a substantial majority which could break off in the secession movement, is there?
I know that there is this rather small area known as Orania that wishes to remain all Afrikaner, but that's just kind of a one-off and very small example of something like that, is it not?
Yes, that's true.
But there are certain parts of the Southern Cape, for example, where whites and Afrikaners are in the majority.
And even in a very urbanized province where I live, you know, whites are outnumbered here about four or five to one.
But it used to be a lot better than that.
It was only about two or three to one.
But there are substantial numbers in certain areas, suburbs and parts of Pretoria, where they are in the majority.
And well, I mean, in a worst case scenario, where a kind of civil war situation had to break out in South Africa, similar to what you're seeing in Syria and places like that, it will be hard for the government to control those areas.
Especially if they are defendant and I Don't know it seems to me that we're in a Generally in the world we were in a very Unstable period of history There are demographic changes all over the world and and politically as well.
We've seen a lot of change in the last 10 to 15 years and there's been a change in mentality in Europe as well.
And if there had to be some sort of a conflict in South Africa, I would imagine that at least a small minority of Europeans and even Americans would probably support people down here and could even come here and join the struggle.
I mean, when I was at one of your conferences, I met a young Swiss gentleman there and he He suggested that to me outright, even while introducing himself.
So, yeah, who knows what will happen in a situation like that?
Because I think that's one of the errors that the ANC is also making is that they are living in the past in a way they haven't taken cognizance of the fact that there's been a sea change in public opinion in the West and in the US with the election of Trump.
They imagine that the social democratic parties are still in power in Europe or the Clintons in the US, that there's a sort of a general anti-white mentality in the world and therefore that they can literally get away with murder here.
They can make all these laws to discriminate against us and that would be applauded by the rest of the Western countries and I don't think even though the media and and some of the government still would turn a blind eye to it at least some Maybe East European country governments would start offering us some form of Maybe even clandestine aid who knows you know as the situation polarizes here and
There's going to be a certain dynamic, and it could also be a global one.
Well, I would like to think that South African whites, especially the Boer nation, would not be completely abandoned by whites all around the world.
But I'm afraid that I can't imagine it all too easily.
It's difficult for me to imagine any conceivable American government I mean, I don't see anyone in the American Congress or in the American media rising up in any kind of indignation about this idea of dispossession without compensation.
And for years I've imagined what an American government would do if South African whites came streaming out of the country with nothing but the clothes on their backs.
Whether or not an American Congress or an American administration would even be prepared to designate them as refugees.
I'm not absolutely convinced that would be the case.
Now, whether or not Eastern Europeans, or perhaps if we can imagine an Austrian government with nationalists involved, or let's... it would be pleasant to imagine, oh, maybe a French government or an Italian government with some kind of nationalist sentiment, perhaps offering assistance.
But at this point, although I do agree with you, That times are changing and that throughout the West there are more and more Whites awakening to the kind of worldwide brotherhood of Europeans that we must establish if we are to have a future anywhere, really.
Despite this awakening, I'm not sure that it has come along well enough so that South African Whites could expect much outside assistance aside from just private contributions which might or might not add up to much.
Yes, you might be right.
We're not exactly, you know, a country that's going to... We're not like a China or a Japan or a Germany or Great Britain that's going to have a decisive effect on world affairs and therefore would be of strategic importance to the major powers.
But I think at a certain level, you know, given the sensitivities of the age and the whole multicultural conflict raging out there, what happens in South Africa is going to draw quite a lot of publicity, as it has done in the past.
And that in itself, you know, could unleash certain forces in public opinion, And also in governments.
So it's going to be interesting to see what happens.
But at a certain level, of course, we don't really expect any form of outside aid.
The important thing to realize is just that whites here since 1994, apart from a few Call them in extremist groups or You know, there was one group that went through a 10-year court case and they were eventually Convicted of high treason and sent to prison, but it was just a the so-called Buddha mark Buddha force and
But they were just a couple of friends and acquaintances who got together and who were infiltrated from the past and they had this very far-fetched notion of a coup, you know, launching a coup in South Africa and taking over the government to just a few dozen people, which of course is entirely unrealistic.
But apart from them, There hasn't really been any form of organized white or poor or Afrikaner resistance to this government just because people here are so decent and law-abiding.
But it's at a certain point, especially if they started confiscating land here and there and, you know, which might involve then also You know, lawlessness by our local black population.
It doesn't take much to get them to riot or to break the law.
And creating a condition like that where laws are being, you know, are being broken or laws are being made that are actually fostering lawlessness, It's not going to take much to have more polarization and then that could be the spark that would set off some form of white resistance which might not even be violent but it could also be just financial.
You know, people were talking about, I mean, How the banks would actually be bankrupted by this whole move, because a lot of these farmers owe billions of dollars to the banks, you know, for financing their equipment and operations.
Now, if tomorrow all these farms had been confiscated, the banks would be out of pocket, because the farmers would have no income anymore to pay back their loans.
Now, imagine if you went a step further and the entire, say, half the white population would from tomorrow refuse to pay back their bank loans on their cars and their homes and so on.
I mean, the country would be bankrupted in a month.
And the effects would be so catastrophic economically and so on on this government that probably They would be begging for mercy in three months' time.
So, the whole situation, once you set, you know, you trigger a process like that, will be very unpredictable and, you know, we still have a few cords up our sleeves.
Well, I'm glad to hear that, and that's an intriguing idea, the idea of white South Africans simply going on a reimbursement strike or a debt repayment strike.
And, well, we will certainly see.
These are fascinating times.
As I say, we outside of South Africa, those of us who are living in countries in which whites are increasingly a minority, we see you as, in some respects, the future.
And so we are very concerned about your welfare.
And these latest developments are certainly worrisome.
And it would be terrible if South Africa went down the road of Zimbabwe.
But it's always great to hear your perspective on these things and I wish you a great deal of luck and a good fortune in preserving your culture and making sure that South Africa remains a place in which there is a homeland for people like you.
Well, thank you very much.
And it's always heartwarming to hear how much American support there is for us, at least on a moral level.
And apart from us, I think Americans are probably really the only people in the world who's got some understanding of this clash of civilizations between Africans and Westerners.
That we are living through and that you have also lived through in in in similar forms In your country, especially in the south and especially during the days of the civil rights movement when you had a lot of riots and and Whites there were also dispossessed of a lot of the public institutions.
Although you you part of a greater Union, of course that compensated to some extent for such losses but you know a lot of people in the US lost their schools and inner cities and so on and you know we're going through the same thing now but in a much more radical way in the sense that yeah we they could confiscate all of our property or even our private property not only our institutions and schools and other systems
But they could come right to our homes, like they have in very many communist countries.
Yes, and with the worldwide sort of alternative media, if you will, people posting videos on the internet, this kind of thing is going to get much, much more attention than it might have in the past.
And even if the mainstream media do not report The Dispossession of Whites.
With any kind of sympathy, there are ways for the reality to become more widely known throughout the world.
And let us hope that there is a reaction to prevent the worst.
But again, we're keeping our fingers crossed for you.
And I'll remind our listeners in closing that we've just been speaking with Dan Root, the author and activist and founder of the Pro-Afrikaans Action Group, or PRAG, P-R-A-A-G.
And you can learn more about his organization at PRAG, P-R-A-A-G dot org.
And so thank you very much, Mr. Root, for taking the time to be on this program.
Well, it's always nice talking to you, Mr. Taylor.
And yes, let's keep the dialogue open.
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