The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2456 - Michael Jai White

Feb. 18, 2026 - The Joe Rogan Experience

02:47:05

Joe Rogan Experience #2456 - Michael Jai White

# yuki_yoza wushu wesley_snipes 100_man_kyokushin_tournament 1994_northridge_earthquake 1997 1998 300 a4m anti_aging_medical_foundation azadullah_iman_gazaliev banff benior_kides bill_caton bill_wallace blade bobby_chacone bridgeport bruce_lee canada cleveland_williams close_quarter_battle combat_sports connecticut cowboy_saroti cqb cultural_critique dagestan dana_rosenblatt decathlon delta_force dr_bob_goldman evander_holyfield film flex_wheeler frankie_edgar frankie_lyles geography_and_urban_life george_foreman gokan_saki health_and_anti_aging hoist_gracie holyfield_fights howard_davis_jr jamie_foxx jim_jacobs jiu_jitsu josh_barnett karate keith_david ken_shamrock khabib_nurmagomedov kimbo_slice krokop kyokushin los_angeles martial_arts marvis_frazier merkle michael_jai_white mike_tyson muay_thai muhammad_ali neural_stimulation_therapies never_back_down_3 new_england_middleweight_champion no_telegraph_jabs outlaw_johnny_black personal_development rampage royce_gracie shaab shot_put sovereign_citizen_tax_case spawn sugar_ray_leonard terry_blacks_barbecue tom_mcfarland track_and_field trevor_burbick tyler_gray ufc ufc_champion vinny_pazianz

Michael Jai White, a martial arts legend in UFC boxing hat and Bruce Lee shirt, contrasts LA’s earthquake risks with his hometown Bridgeport’s violence, crediting early street-fighting instincts and cross-training—from Taekwondo to Muay Thai and jiu-jitsu—with shaping his adaptability. He praises Royce Gracie’s dominance over Hoist but laments UFC’s commercialization of combat sports, calling discipline the "best addiction" while critiquing modern U.S. culture for stripping rites of passage like struggle. White also dissects Mike Tyson’s rise, fueled by hypnosis and legendary footage exposure, and his psychological collapse against Holyfield’s faith-driven resilience, questioning if Ali vs. Tyson could’ve been history’s greatest match had Ali’s prime endured. Their discussion underscores how true mastery demands humility, relentless training, and embracing adversity over natural talent. [Automatically generated summary]
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Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
Lights Out, Earthquake Shakes 00:07:31
unidentified		Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!
unidentified		The Joe Rogan experience.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Train by day, Joe Rogan, podcast by night, all day.
		You're all suited up.
		You got a wild card boxing hat on, a Bruce Lee shirt.
		Come on, son.
unidentified		Hey, we got the yellow and thing going on.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you got it all going on.
		What's happened?
		Great to see you.
unidentified		Man, things are really well.
		This thing is a little loud.
		Is it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a, on that thing there, there's a little volume knob.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can turn that sucker down.
unidentified		There it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Last time I saw you was at Terry Black's Barbecue.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Random run-in.
unidentified		Yeah, that was crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was crazy.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
		I was thinking about going there right after this.
		I'm like, what, Terry Black's?
		That place was no joke.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That place rules.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Are you still in LA?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's it like?
unidentified		It's cool, man.
		Is it?
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You like it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're the only person that said that.
unidentified		No.
		Yeah, well, because, okay, I defend L.A. in a way where, first of all, if you got a handful of good people with you, you know, and your family, then it's so the fact that LA has all kinds of different things, you could be on a hiking trail in 20 minutes.
		You could beat it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Geographically, it's amazing.
unidentified		Yeah, and the weather, you can't beat it.
unidentified		So if you got good people, good friends with you, then it's all good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You just run by crooks.
		It's a nice neighborhood run by the mob.
		It's run by the woke mob.
		But I mean, geographically, you can't beat it.
		You could be at the ocean and then you could be in the mountains in two hours.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		Yeah, so that's that's even if you don't partake, it's still cool.
		It still amps up the dante, really.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Like the spot itself is magical.
		It is a magical place to live.
		Although, I am deeply concerned that that motherfucker is going to get hit with a big one soon.
unidentified		It's about time, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I was reading this article about massive earthquakes in California and how often they're spread out and the possibility of one of them happening within the next decade.
		It's very high.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		You know, I try not to think about that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I try not to think about it too, bro.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		But, you know, now there's, you know, you can, I think they have better detection of that stuff now, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's better.
		It doesn't matter.
		It doesn't matter.
		They can't detect.
		Do you remember what happened in Italy?
		A couple guys got arrested and went to jail.
		They were seismologists because the company, the country rather, didn't understand the ability to detect it.
		They had a big earthquake and a bunch of people died.
		And so they blamed these geologists or seismologists.
		They wound up winning in court on appeal because eventually the science was revealed.
		Like, hey, there's no fucking way you can really tell.
		But they hung these guys out.
		They blame these guys on not being able to detect it.
unidentified		Man.
		Well, I mean, just think about it.
		The last crazy ones was 72 and then 94.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I think it was 93.
		I came, I moved to LA right after the last big one.
		I saw one of the sections of the highway that had collapsed on the other one.
		I remember driving by going, fuck this place.
unidentified		I was in the middle of that one.
unidentified		I just, I came into LA.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you were there?
unidentified		Dude, I don't even like to tell the story about what happened during that 94 earthquake.
		Oh, yeah.
		Because it sounds like bullshit.
		But literally, I got up, ran out of my house, my apartment at the time, jumped off the balcony and watched it happen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You watched the house collapse?
unidentified		I watched the earthquake happen from outside.
		Oh.
		It's like no bullshit.
		Everybody's.
		So I thought, oh, shit, I overreacted.
		I had a bad dream.
		I lived on the first floor of this apartment building.
		All I know is I wake up, I'm off balance, catching my balance in the parking lot, right?
		And like, oh, shoot, I got to find the guard to get me back in the apartment building, right?
		And I'm thinking, what, you know, what's like, I've lost my mind or something.
		The next thing you know, everything shakes and the lights go out.
		Just everything gets black.
		And so I'm backing, I retreat back because I'm thinking the building was going to fall on me.
		And I'm like, wait a minute.
		Then I got the story from everybody else that experienced it.
		They said that the first thing that happened was the building shook and the lights went out.
		Well, I was outside watching that.
		So I'm outside when it happened.
		Like some kind of.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What made you jump over the feeling?
unidentified		Dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Or did you have like the first, was it the first rumbles?
unidentified		I thought it was, I thought I reacted to the, like some kind of an aftershock or some kind of rumble.
unidentified		No, because the girl that was with me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You left her in the apartment?
unidentified		Dude.
		All she knows is that you jumped up and you ran out of, you ran out of the house and I heard the door slide and that was, and then the next thing you know, everything shook.
		She couldn't, she was trapped in there because there was a closet door that trapped her in the hallway.
		So when I got back in the place, me and a friend had to try to pry the door open because she couldn't get out.
		But I ran out of that place before the earthquake actually happened.
		How weird.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You got good instincts.
unidentified		I don't know what the hell that was.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It has to be.
unidentified		I don't even like telling that story because it sounds like bullshit.
		It really happened that way.
		Then the guard, I talked to the guard, I'm like, hey, when did the lights go out?
		Oh, it shook and the lights went out.
		I'm like, I'm watching that happen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you felt it happen before it happened?
unidentified		Some kind of weird way.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I bet humans have that.
		Animals definitely have that.
		They talk about Thailand, how they had that tsunami and all the animals ran up to the highest point of the island.
		They all just took off.
		It's like they just knew instinctively.
unidentified		I don't know.
		Nothing like that has ever happened afterwards.
		But I got to say, there's been, I've been lucky over the years.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you're a dude who's tuned in.
		You're tuned into your body.
		You're tuned into your environment.
		You're not going to get caught slipping.
		Like you probably felt something and your spidey sense went off.
unidentified		Yeah, I kind of have been like that growing up.
		Like I've been, you know, I've been on my own since I was 14.
		Been through crazy shit that you normally would see on movies.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's the type of shit that gives you those kind of instincts.
unidentified		But yeah, and I was always the one that said, hey, let's leave.
		Let's get out of here.
		And then, hey, man, there was a shootout.
		Did it just happen right after you left?
		Or I could detect like the predators.
		You know what I mean?
		So I grew up kind of that way.
Growing Up Alone 00:02:43
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Because you have to look at the current.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's nobody looking out for you.
		Yeah.
		Nobody was looking out for you.
		You got to look out for yourself.
unidentified		Well, yeah.
		I mean, I was, oh, I was, I was like always the junior of the group a lot of times because like I said, you know, I've been on my own since I was 14.
		I haven't grown an ant since I was 13, 14.
		I was, I looked like a grown-ass man, right?
		I was fighting in tournaments at 15 against Grown men, like you know, fighting heavyweight at that time.
		But I was always hanging with older people, uh, kind of, you know, kind of like I got away with kind of living as an adult early on.
		Because, like, you know, did you work?
		Yeah, well, I was teaching karate school, karate class.
		What was doing, what was, what was happening, see, I used to hang out at this community center in the hood.
		At this time, I moved from Brooklyn to Bridgeport, Connecticut, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bridgeport's a tough name, right?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was a lot of people don't know.
unidentified		Yeah, we had the top murder rate per capita, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bridgeport's rough.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, yeah.
		So I was constantly, I mean, there's a community center that was like my haven.
		And I would go practice with me and my other karate nuts, you know?
		And so I'd be in the paper for winning heavyweight, you know, competitions or whatever.
		And so the people that was running the community center said, why don't you teach a class?
		They thought I was an adult.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's hilarious.
unidentified		And so I was teaching like a, you know, like kind of like just under the table.
		I was getting paid under the table, basically.
		But I had like close to 200 students early on, like when I'm 15, 16.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's crazy.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So, you know, it was kind of a trip.
		You know, which is one of the reasons why I was a father at 15.
		You know, because I had one of my students' older sister, you know, was like, had a crush on her, her, on his instructor.
		But I was kind of living the life of a grown-up, like early on.
		And so, you know, there's a faction of people in Bridgeport who think I'm Satan, I guess, because they think that I'm probably in my 70s now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're a vampire.
unidentified		Right.
		Yeah.
		So there's some people I had to admit, like, no, I wasn't the age you thought I was back then.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's crazy.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		But I mean, so, yeah, you know, one of the things I'm really grateful for is growing up that early and having to, you know, use my instincts.
Would Train With Sugar Ray 00:06:45
unidentified		And being that, you know, street fighting and fighting was like my favorite thing to do, actually.
		And so with when I got into the martial arts deeper and everything else, you know, I just really, I really dug into it and wanted to learn style after style and this, you know, everything.
		I was just a martial art nerd for it.
		But I also liked the realistic portion of it, even though I was doing other styles like Wushu and everything else.
		But, you know, it was actually my haven.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Somewhere Eddie Bravo has to find this video.
		There's a video of us working out together at Legends where we were talking about hopping sidekicks and different types of sidekicks.
		And you threw, there was a bag that we had that had a shitty chain.
		But regardless, you threw a hopping sidekick on that chain and the chain snapped and went flying.
		The bag went flying.
		And Eddie Bravo was like, what the fuck?
		It's a funny video, man.
		I know Eddie has it somewhere.
		I'll probably text him after this and try to see if he can put it up on his Instagram or something.
unidentified		Yeah, back then, man, we were training when it wasn't even popular.
unidentified		You know, I used to see you in the gym all the time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		All the time, man.
		And you were, just think about this.
		Do you know it was 29 years ago, the last time you interviewed me?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
unidentified		29 years ago.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That after that Bob Costa show.
		He took a week off and I guest hosted it for a week.
		Yeah.
unidentified		And at that time, you were already training with Maurice Smith.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Maurice is one of the guests.
unidentified		Right.
		You're training because I ended up training with Maurice Smith, you know, every time I'd go to Seattle, you know, we'd train together.
		So, you know, we're like part of this like kind of karate martial art nerd culture when it wasn't even popular.
		No, I used to see you all the time.
		You know, you and you and you know, doing jiu-jitsu, Carl Parisian, and all these guys at legends.
		Well, there was another place.
		It was, we had there was legends, and it was another place.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The bomb squad, yes, the bomb squad was the first place that Eddie taught out, and then that place closed down.
		Then we went to Legends, yeah, and then we moved to the other Legends that was like in more East LA.
		And then Eddie started opening up his own place in downtown.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, and that's where I would train with Josh Barnett at that place for quite a bit.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Old days, yes, man, yeah.
unidentified		And who's who would be coming through the gym?
		Because I was training, I was training Bob Sapp at one time, and then I, that's how I got Frankie Lyles connected into that.
		Wow.
		Wow.
		And so I remember Frankie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Frankie used to be at the bomb squad first.
unidentified		Right, yeah.
		Frankie was like my best friend in the world.
		And he was, you know, you're a super middleweight champion in the world.
		That's who got me deeply into boxing.
		And so I would always be at his training camps.
		And, you know, I got to train with like Tommy Hearns and all these amazing people like Sugar Ray and all these guys, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Frankie's a great boxing coach.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's one of the most technical.
		He's one of the most technical guys I've ever worked with.
		Like he analyzes every aspect of your jab.
		He's pulling in your elbow.
		He's tightening this.
		He's moving you here.
		He's like, like, he's showing all the various basic little tiny details that make all the difference in the world.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
		He was my personal boxing coach.
		I would train with him, Joe Gusen, early on.
		But Frankie, I mean, we really kind of combined a lot of things because I started kind of teaching him things with the jab, like the untelegraph type of stuff.
		And he started applying that.
		And he would bring me into stuff and have me show people like Sugar Ray, like, Mike, explain this jab.
		And I'm like, what?
		I'm explaining this to Sugar Ray.
		This feels ridiculous, right?
		But it was like this combination because, like, I don't know, I'm very analytical and I love technique, you know?
		And so I would just try to break things down.
		And my whole thing was always to pressure test things.
		You know, so if I could develop a tool or a skill and I, and you can't stop it, even if I tell you what I'm doing, then it's a really good technique.
		Then it's then it's legit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The thing about no telegraph at all, it's so much more effective than a harder strike with a telegraph.
unidentified		Oh, God, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because it lands.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it's so difficult to teach people that because everybody wants to hit everybody as hard as they can.
		Yeah.
		Especially if you have power.
		Your instinct is to fucking load up on everything.
		I remember I first saw you teaching that to Kimbo Slice.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You were on a movie set.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, because Kimbo, oh man, what a great guy, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What a great guy.
unidentified		What a wonderful guy.
		So that's one thing about fighting.
		You can't hide your nature.
		You know what I mean?
		People see who you are.
		And he was a wonderful human being.
		But like, but like a lot of people, like almost like street basketball, as opposed to professional, you miss out on certain techniques that you need when you're trying to step up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And so, like, well, Kimbo, you know, he would, like a lot of people, he would kind of telegraph.
		And so when we were shooting the movie, You know, and I basically, we had a cameraman that did not really know how to shoot stuff.
		So I just had to do everything on screen.
		And so I would, I would, I just wanted to make everything very realistic.
		And so Kimbo had this rubber knife.
		And I was like, try your best to touch me with the rubber knife.
		And so he would try, but before, but as soon as he would move, there'd be a little bit of an indication that I'd see.
		And then I throw the punch and it would go really close to him and I have him react to that.
		But he was going, wait a minute, how are you hitting me before I can get this knife out?
		And then I told him, you know, I'll show you what that is later.
		Because, you know, kind of like not to be real nerdish about it, but like, why are like 50 and 60 year old trainers meeting people's hands, like a 20-year-old guy's or contender's hands, like this?
		You see the person with the pad moving just as much as the other guy because there's an indication they do this beforehand.
Threat Locker Tactics 00:02:38
unidentified		They're always kind of flexing and going in reverse before they go forward.
		So just for over years, I wouldn't do that and I would exploit that.
		You know, so it's kind of like a cheat code that I'm like, hell, what the hell am I going to do with it?
		I'm an actor.
		So my thing is, just like yourself, when I see you, you know, with George St. Pierre and how we are always in the gym, we're, you know, we're kind of collaborating.
		It's about just getting better.
		No ego or anything else like that.
		It's just like, hey, man, we're like kind of, you know, kind of like jamming on technique and getting better.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, especially to someone who has a different style to do because there's always something in different styles that you could take out of it.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's always something.
		And we're seeing that now.
		There's all these different martial artists that are entering into MMA that have these different techniques that people haven't seen before.
		And there's a lot of them that people dismiss that you're finding are very effective, especially if you don't know how to do them.
		You don't know what they are.
		So you don't, you have like a database in your mind of movements.
		Like I'm sure you see when a guy's loading up on a spin.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Everybody sees that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But if you don't know that, you don't see it.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And if you, if you're loading up, then you're not going to, you're not going to capitalize on it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Because you don't, you know, you're taking a, there's a millisecond that you're taking because your movement is not efficient.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This episode is brought to you by Threat Locker.
unidentified		Here's the truth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Reacting to cyber attacks isn't enough.
		You need control from the start.
		That's where Threat Locker comes in.
		With zero trust, you only allow what you need, blocking everything else by default.
unidentified		You're in control.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What runs, when, where, and how.
		Ransomware, zero-day exploits, block them before they can execute.
		And now with AI now increasing the speed and volume of attacks, a fast response isn't fast enough.
		Visit threatlocker.com/slash JRE to learn more.
		There's a move that still to this day people aren't doing effectively when someone loads up because you can see the load up and it's just a jam.
		It's just lifting your foot up and putting it on the hips.
		And it's super effective in Taekwondo because everybody's fast.
		Everybody's trying to do that technique.
		But that jam of just lifting your foot up and just not trying to hit them hard, just putting that foot on the hip, it fucks people up.
		And I don't see anybody using that right now.
Footwork Matters 00:15:36
unidentified		I tell you, man, like, I don't, like, as in life, there's always something that you can gain from the, you know, people want to, I don't know, people are in their own egos a lot of times.
		But like even Wu Shu, me is hard as hell for me doing Wu Shu against guys half my size.
		It's not against, but it's a performance thing.
		Right.
		But if I can do all of it, can go to these very hard techniques of like, I got to get down to the floor and I got to and body mastery.
		Yeah, at my size.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Well, then I'm better.
		So if I want to kick you in the eyebrow, I can.
		Right.
		Because it's about, you know, having my body do what my mind's telling it to.
		Right.
		And so, but of course people want to dismiss it because, oh, that ain't real.
		You can't use it.
		Yeah, good.
		Yeah.
		Just like ballet is hard as hell.
		You can't use that either.
		But anybody, any heavyweight who put themselves through ballet would be a better fighter.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		100%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at Lomachenko.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		His dad taught him Ukrainian dance.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Lomachenko's dad pulled him out of boxing for two years when he was young.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And said, you're just going to do Ukrainian dance.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like, what the fuck am I doing?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But look at that guy's footwork.
unidentified		Exactly.
		And so it's just as in life, man.
		I don't look at anything from one group and just discard any other stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I used to when I was young.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When I was young, I was pretty arrogant about certain things.
		I thought forms were stupid.
		All I wanted to do was spar and hit the bag.
		Then as I got older, I realized, oh, there's a lot of wisdom in all this stuff.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
		But yeah, but that's like I say, I try to apply that to life, period.
		You know, I never look at anything from one perspective.
		I mean, I grew up in the hood and I'm, you know, my favorite band is freaking, you know, the Eagles.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And, yeah, I mean, like, you know, and I'm listening to Jody Mitchell and all that, and people are like, what are you doing listening?
		I'm like, what the fuck?
		You know, this is my life, man.
		Fuck you.
		Like, do you, you hear these lyrics?
		You hear Jody Mitchell's lyrics, man?
		What the fuck?
		That's all for me, too.
		I mean, I'm just as passionate about, you know, Errol Smith as I am about the Isley brothers.
		But I've never looked at life as I have to think in this parameter.
		You know, I've got to be marginalized.
		That's just, man, come on.
		It's such a waste of life.
		It is.
		It's all for you, man.
		So with the martial arts and everything else, I look at every martial art just like everything else.
		Everything has something to contribute.
		Just like all people have something to contribute.
		Even an idiot, you can learn from an idiot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A lot of idiots say wise things occasionally.
unidentified		Yeah, because everybody's going to have a quotient of legitimacy.
		It may be 20% as a thing and they don't see the 80%.
		But until you acknowledge that 20%, they're not going to hear you.
		You know what I mean?
		So that's the thing.
		It's like, man, we're on this planet.
		And one of the things that, man, I don't envy a whole lot of people, but I do envy you because you get to expand your world.
		You talk to so many interesting people.
		And that's what a great thing.
		What a great thing to just have all these type of perspectives and all that coming through.
		And I got to say, man, I'm super proud of you because I know you as Joe from the gym and look what you've done, man.
		Thank you.
		Man, it's like that, that's a shot in the army because it's like people that you like and seeing them prosper, that's cool as shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've learned a lot, man.
		And I didn't expect to.
		When we first started doing this, it was just for fun.
		We just get together with our friends.
unidentified		You knew what you wanted to do, man.
		You were pretty damn clear.
		Do you remember this?
		You remember me coming to, I think it was the Ice House?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		In Pasadena?
unidentified		No, no, no.
		Oh, shoot.
		It wasn't Ice House.
		It was in Orange County.
		I came to see you perform, and I offered you the role in Blood and Bone.
		Do you remember that at all?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		Yeah, yeah, I do now.
		Yeah.
		Okay.
unidentified		Because Blood and Bone, which is like actually Sony's most successful non-theatrical, that was basically a kind of a reimagining of hard times with Charles Bronson and James Colburn.
		Great movie.
		Yes.
		Well, that role was basically that I was offering you was the James Colburn role.
		Right?
		But you were so, you were dead set.
		And you just said, I don't want to do this acting stuff.
		I want to do, I want to focus on what I, you know, your interest, which was, you know, you stand up and you're getting together.
		I mean, I know you and Eddie were doing like kind of the early podcast type of stuff and whatever.
		And I'm like, man, you know, you really kind of knew what you wanted to do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the thing about acting is, I mean, I admire it, especially good acting.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it takes a lot of time out of your day.
		It's a 16-hour day.
		It's a long day.
		And it will take away from other things you do.
		And I saw that with a lot of comics that they started doing acting, and it would take away from their act because they really couldn't go and do sets every night.
		They couldn't really polish their material.
		You could see stuff getting a little clunkier.
		And it's just, you got to focus.
		You got to find the things you enjoy and focus on them.
unidentified		Yeah, that's why I say I'm so proud of just being there and seeing what you did.
		You being a part of the UFC when it was nothing promised.
		You know what I mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not only was it not promised, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People looked at you like you were doing like snuff films or something.
unidentified		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They looked at you, like, I remember the early days, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dana White always says this, people would talk to you like you were doing porn or something.
unidentified		Right, right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, I was on news radio, the sitcom on NBC, and I was doing commentary where I was doing post-fight interviews for the UFC.
		And they were like, why are you doing this?
		Why are you flying to Alabama and doing cage fights?
unidentified		See, this is what movies are.
		Good movies are made of shit like this.
		You know what I mean?
		Somebody just on, or just out of their spirit, doing what they want to do with no promise of anything and then accomplishing something.
		So, you know, kudos, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		Seriously, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, for me, and I'm sure for you as well, when we were young, there was always a question, what is the best style?
		Is it Kyokushin?
		Is it Judo?
		Is it Kung Fu?
		What is it?
		What's the best style?
		And no one really knew.
		I mean, Benny the Jet fought in a bunch of those no rules fights early on, but they never really took off.
		There wasn't a lot of those.
		And Benny was obviously a very special fighter.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, he was one of my teachers, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		I trained at his gym.
		He was on the podcast with Blinky, Blinky Rodriguez.
unidentified		Right here.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Recently.
		And I told them, I said, when I came to LA, there was two places I had to go.
		I had to go to the comedy store, and I had to go to the Jet Center.
		I had to go to the Jet Center.
		And I was there in 94 right before it went under because the earthquake damaged their roof.
unidentified		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So when the rainy season came, it was on Friar Street.
unidentified		Yep, right down from the Goosens.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right down.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that was an honor, man, to be able to train in that gym.
		That was incredible.
		It was incredible.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah.
		I used to be there.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, man.
		Yeah, those are some great times because, I mean, I connect with Benny because when I was in Bridgeport, my instructor, Manny Malisi, went to California and started training with Benny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
unidentified		Early on.
unidentified		So he put that on the map about coming to the Mecca and training with Benny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was the Mecca.
		For kickboxing, especially in the 90s, that was the Mecca.
		You had to go to the Jet Center.
unidentified		Everyone was talking to the Jet Center.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was class.
		We were always wondering, like, what is the style?
		What's the best style?
		And then the UFC came along.
		I'm like, oh, my God, they did it.
		They did it.
		They figured it out.
		They put it all together.
		And for a while, it was Jiu-Jitsu because nobody understood Jiu-Jitsu.
		And Hoyce Gracie was just running shit.
unidentified		Well, you know, you know how that was kind of set up a little bit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was a little set up.
		But I mean, look, he had some challenges.
		Like, Ken Shamrock was a beast.
		Oh, yeah.
		He has some really good fighters he was facing against.
		Kimbo Slice.
		I mean, excuse me, not Kimbo Slice.
unidentified		Not Kimo.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Kimo.
unidentified		Sorry.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Kimo was fucking huge.
unidentified		He was a big dude, but he didn't really.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was a hundred-pound advantage.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He had 100 pounds over Hoist.
unidentified		The Gracies were smart.
		They were very smart at that time.
		Knowing the right people to kind of pick at that time.
		Because, you know, there were some killers out there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There were some killers out there.
		Yeah, they definitely set it up, especially the early ones.
		But it's also, it's like, you know, it was good for us to see a guy like Hoyce who wasn't jacked.
		He was a slender guy.
		He weighed 175 pounds and he was strangling everybody, arm barring everybody.
		It was wild to see.
		When he beat Dan Severin, Dan Severin was 260 pounds, and Hoist tapped him off his back with a triangle.
unidentified		Man, what a story.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That put Jiu-Jitsu on the map.
unidentified		On the map big time.
		But, you know, one thing that always broke my heart is people never knew about Hickson.
		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		That dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		That cat was like, I always considered him like, pound for pound, the best, because he he, now he had this.
		Not only you know jiu-jitsu skills, but just his concentration yeah, and he was almost, like you know hypnotic right, you know what I mean the way.
		And just no waste of energy none, just unbelievable.
		What an amazing person to watch is.
		You know, I encourage anybody to pull up his, his fights.
		Well, he did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Another great example of Goliath stuff.
		Oh yeah, another great example of cross training too, because Hickson got really into yoga and everybody's like, what the fuck are you doing yoga?
		Like yoga's for girls, right?
		Hickson got really into yoga and got super flexible and suit and really good at controlling his breathing.
		Oh yeah yeah, and never got tired.
unidentified		Yeah, you saw him in that, in the Hulk.
unidentified		Oh yeah yeah yeah man, it's something, man that that's talk about a legend oh, real legend yeah yeah, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well Hickson, there's a video of him and he did this multiple times where he would go to these gyms and he would um, teach a seminar, like a long seminar, and then roll with all the black belts yeah, and just tap them one after the other.
		One world champions, guys that just didn't understand what was going on, like how is this happening?
		Oh yeah, like Paul Ophelio, when he was a WC world champion and he was uh, he had won the Mundials.
		I believe he'd won multiple jiu-jitsu championships and he he trained with Hickson and he's like man, it's true, because I can't believe it he goes.
		That guy treated me like I didn't even belong in there.
		It was crazy, and Hickson by that time was probably like 40.
		yeah you know and it's still just dominating guys on the map and effortless it wasn't strength it was it was just pure technique and basics and Just mastering of basics.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Basics.
		It was like, there's none of the, no barimbolos, no X-Guard, nothing crazy.
		Everything he did is like Jiu-Jitsu 101, but to a masterful, masterful degree.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Incredible.
		And telling people that, you know, because everybody knows Hoist, and I'm like, you guys don't know who his big brother is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		His brother.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He would openly say that my brother is 10 times better than that.
unidentified		Right.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		So, you know, that's that really put, and I love jiu-jitsu because it, it's, it's, it's held up the tradition that martial arts, someone's karate lost because it became a business.
		And people would just, you know, put their time in and pay for their black belts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And it just watered it down.
		Right.
		All these people running around saying that they're master this and you know, a grand whatever and all these made-up things.
		It's like, oh, yeah, the guy's a master in a in an Asian martial art.
		That's that's an that's an English word.
		Right.
		Right.
		You know what I mean?
		How did master sneak its way into it?
		Yeah, but anyway, but you know, male ego.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, well, the thing about martial arts other than jiu-jitsu is when you're sparring, it's very controlled.
		Like a lot of karate sparring is very controlled.
		A lot of Taekwondo sparring is very controlled.
		But in jiu-jitsu, the beautiful thing about grappling is you know how good everybody is because they all spar.
		They're all rolling with each other and they essentially go in full blast until the tap.
		And so there's no hiding.
		There's no hiding your skill.
unidentified		Yeah, I love what Eddie Bravo used to say.
		Basically, when you won, I killed you.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I just killed you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		You know, so that's like, wow, that's it.
unidentified		That's a trip because it's like, it actually works out that way.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If he gets you in a triangle and you tap, it's because you were about to go to sleep.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And once you're sleepy, you just stomp your head into a pancake.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		You're done.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You just hold on to that triangle and then you never wake up.
unidentified		Yeah, what a humbling thing.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Very humbling.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And what's really humbling is how quickly someone could do it to you when you don't know what you're doing.
		Like that was shocking to me because I had all this martial arts experience and I first started training.
		I was like, what's someone going to do to me?
		I wrestled in high school.
		I'm strong.
		I'm fast.
		I know how to fight.
		I just got manhandled over and over and over again.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This is ridiculous.
unidentified		Yeah.
		See, but kudos because a lot of people, because of if you got an egotistical thing going and you get that your little, I don't know, your comfort because you got your black belt and all that kind of stuff.
		That means jack nothing.
		You know, to everybody I know who continues and really to learn real fighting knows when you had a boxer beat the hell out you and you go, oh wait, there's a lot of this stuff I got to toss out the window.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And because I mean, I never forget like times where a wrestler gets to me or a boxer like pieces me up like early on.
		I'm like, no, I got to learn this.
		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I went through several of those.
		I went through one of them in high school because I had a friend in high school that was a wrestler and I didn't think anything of wrestling.
		I'm like, that's not even a martial art.
		And then we wrestled on the grass one day and he just took me down at will.
		And I was like, this is ridiculous.
		He was pinning me down.
		I couldn't move.
		I couldn't get up.
		I'm like, this is stunning.
		I thought I'm strong.
		I thought I could move.
		I thought I'll be able to get out of the way.
		No, not.
		I had no chance.
		And he wasn't even a great wrestler.
		He was just a decent wrestler.
		And he just humbled me over and over and over again.
		So then I started wrestling.
		And then when I got into Taekwondo, I thought I'm really good at Taekwondo.
		I was competing on a national level.
		I won the state championships four years in a row.
		I was fucking people up.
		And then I remember the first time I boxed with a really good amateur boxer, I was like, oh, Lord.
		And this kid was like 18 years old.
		And he went on as a kid, his name is Dana Rosenblatt.
		He went on to become New England middleweight champion.
		He beat Vinny Pazianza.
Sparring with Champions 00:10:43
unidentified		Oh, shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He beat Howard Davis Jr. as a professional.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was a really good boxer.
unidentified		Well, yeah, he had to be.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But he was kickboxing at the time.
		And I was going to get into kickboxing.
		And so I was sparring with him.
		But when I was boxing with him, I was just getting lit up.
		I was like, oh, and then also when we were kickboxing, the moment he got close to me, I was in trouble.
		I was like, oh, no.
		Like, Taekwondo had too many flaws.
unidentified		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The hand techniques.
		So I had gone through that.
		And so then I thought, okay, well, now I understand kickboxing.
		Then I met a dude who went to Thailand a bunch of times and was training Muay Thai and fighting over there.
		And then I started learning leg kicks.
		I'm like, well, oh, good Lord.
		Now all they have to do is kick my legs.
		I didn't even think of that.
		And then I started really paying attention to WKA fights, like the old Dennis Alexio days with Don the Dragon Wilson.
		And I was like, leg kicks.
		Leg kicks are everything.
		Oh, my goodness.
		And then I'm like, okay, well, now I got a solid foundation.
		I understand how to fight.
		And then I started getting jiu-jitsu.
		Like, oh, no.
		Back to square one.
		I'm getting raped.
		I was just getting mauled on the mats.
		But I'd been through that so many times and restarted so many times.
		I was like, well, it's time to learn this now.
unidentified		Yeah, that's what I'm saying is everything has something to teach you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And, you know, even though there's that, this is a martial art.
		There's a fantasy world, which is, I look at it as hilarious.
		You know, there's this, you know, I don't know.
		Sometimes I would say it like this.
		Like, with martial arts, the Dundee Kruger effect in the largest way possible because everybody out there has an opinion of martial arts, though very few people really know what it is.
		You know, they want to look at the movies and everything, and they really want to believe that.
		They want to believe that this guy who kicks in the air and all that kind of stuff will be able to beat a champion.
		And in a way, hey, I benefit from that to some degree because they think that about me.
		But even though I'm comfortable fighting and I love to, I mean, I just love fighting against anybody.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But you've had actual competition experience, like a lot of competitions.
unidentified		Yeah, but my best experiences is with like, I got a chance to train against champions at their place.
		You know, when they're at their best.
		And it's not an ego thing.
		It's just like, I love to be able to test myself.
		And I mean, because I'm my biggest competition.
		And so that whole thing about just what the bow means to me is like, thank you for making me better by providing me an obstacle.
		And the higher the, you know, the better the person, the better I can become.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		100%.
unidentified		And so I loved it.
		So I, you know, for years I'm in there with Gokan Saki and, you know, Maury Smiths and, you know, who, you know, you name it.
		I've gotten, I consider myself one of the luckiest martial artists on the planet because I get to train with so many people.
		Sometimes, you know, at my house and, you know, I've got all these, you know, former champions training.
		And, you know, Rampage when he was champion, I go to his place.
		And, you know, and honestly, like, the things I brag about is when I get humbled, you know, because that's when I learn something.
		For sure.
		My philosophy is I love to be wrong because every time I'm wrong, I learn something.
		Absolutely.
		And so, like, some of the best times for me is like, I know when I was, you know, Michael Bisbing was getting ready to fight George St. Pierre, and we were in Thailand.
		I was like, yeah, you know, let's mix it up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What were you doing in Thailand?
unidentified		We were doing a movie out there.
		Oh, wow.
		But he had to train.
		He was getting ready for the George St. Pierre fight.
		And so, you know, I was like, yeah, let's do some rounds or whatever.
		And I got so winded the second round.
		I'm like, dude, just whoop my ass.
		I feel so like, I'm embarrassed.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bisbing was a cardio machine.
unidentified		Yes, he was.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was a cardio machine.
unidentified		I didn't expect that because we spent all day on a yacht the day before and he was drinking nonstop.
		I'm a non-drinker, right?
		I'm like, this guy's going to, you know, I'm going to probably take it easy on him today.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He is one of the toughest motherfuckers that ever fought in the sport.
unidentified		I swear.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This is what I say about him.
		No matter what you think about watching his fights, you have to understand, not only did he accomplish so much, he accomplished a lot of it with one eye.
		One fucking eye.
		He had 11 fights in the UFC with a winning record with one eye.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Crazy.
		Yes.
		Yeah, that, that's, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He would memorize the eye chart so that when they covered his eye, he could sight it out like he could read it.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How fucking crazy is that?
unidentified		He's got a hell of a personal story, too.
		I was trying to encourage him to get that made.
		You know, like, honestly, man, I really look at these UFC fighters and the MMA guys as our modern-day heroes.
		They're our gladiators.
		And so whenever I have a chance, man, I always like to put them in movies and try to expose them to another kind of way of getting paid.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Especially afterwards, because it breaks my heart that they're heroes and then they get discarded sometimes by not by the union that they're with, but just by the fans.
		They're so fickle sometimes.
		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the casuals, the people that aren't really martial artists.
unidentified		Right, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, I just miss a guy when they lose a few.
unidentified		Yeah, I just did my third movie with Cowboy Saroti.
unidentified		You know, we just finished a little over a week ago.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's awesome.
unidentified		Yeah, he's doing really good, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I love that.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, me too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a guy that could really legitimately transition to become a movie star.
unidentified		Yes, yes.
		And he's got a lot more confidence.
		Like I said, the third movie, he did a Western with me.
		Outlaw Johnny Black, I wrote and directed it.
		But I had Cowboy.
		I had Randy Couture in it.
		Oh, wow.
		And then Josh Barnett.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Randy's done an amazing job of transitioning.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The expendables, you know, and he's great at it.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He has a great personality.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Very calm.
		Well, I remember one time he was fighting Tim Sylvia for the heavyweight title.
		And he came out there.
		He had a smile on his face.
		He looked over at me and he winked.
		I'm like, how is this motherfucker so relaxed before he's fight?
		But he had an amazing perspective.
		He said to me, the people who love you will love you whether you win or lose.
		And he said, what's the worst thing that can happen?
		You lose.
		He goes, you've lost before.
		It's no big deal.
unidentified		You remember him spanking Tito?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he got on top of his spanking out of death.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he was an animal.
unidentified		Yeah, well, when we, you know, he had that heart attack while he was shooting my movie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
unidentified		And then came back to set like nothing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How did he have a fucking heart attack?
unidentified		I don't remember how.
		It was, and I think he drove himself to the hospital.
		Yeah, man.
		Talk about an American hero, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I was there for his first fight.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 1997.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was there for his very first fight.
unidentified		Oh, shoot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He fought this huge jack dude, took him down, mounted him, beat the shit out of him.
		It was wild.
		It was like that was the time where wrestlers had first started cracking this code.
		Right.
		Right.
		There was this code of there was a lot of people that thought like jiu-jitsu was the only way.
		And then the elite wrestlers got in there.
unidentified		Oh, God.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The Mark Kerr, the Mark Coleman, and then Randy, a bunch of these guys got in there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then they realized, like, if a guy could just take you down and beat the fuck out of you from the top, there's not a whole lot you could do about it.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then we realized, like, boy, that is the corner.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the true cornerstone of martial arts.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The ability to take a guy down.
unidentified		My goodness.
		I mean, what's harder than wrestling?
		I don't think there's any.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The hardest sport in the world.
		The hardest sport in the world.
		And the best sport in the world to get your kids into at a young age because the discipline and the mental toughness that they get will carry them through for the rest of their life.
unidentified		Yep.
		Tenacity, just the stick-to-itiveness, whatever you want to call it.
		Yeah, that's just like even high school wrestling.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I remember wrestling in high school, and I had already done martial arts, but I was like, I'd never trained that hard.
		I was like, I can't believe it.
		And then it carried me over into my Taekwondo career because I realized, like, oh, I'm leaving a lot on the table.
		Like, I'm not training like these guys are.
		So I started running.
		I started adding all these things to my training that I wasn't doing before.
		I started doing a lot more calisthenics, a lot more different things.
		I was like, I'm leaving something on the table because we were not training in the gym and we were sparring hard.
		We were doing hard rounds.
		You'd get tired, but it was not the same as what we were doing in wrestling.
		No one trains harder than that.
unidentified		Anaerobic stuff, man.
		That's that's man.
		I got the wrestling bug when I was in my senior in high school.
		And the football coach was a wrestler in college.
		And he challenged me.
		I think we did this two years in a row, in my junior year and my senior year.
		At the end of the year, we'd wrestle.
		We'd just go like, you know, he and I. Like I said, I was big for my age.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Were you playing football?
unidentified		I was for a very short time, but I ended up, I wasn't, I wasn't designed for team sports.
		Me neither.
		And I ended up beating up the football coach.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
unidentified		Yeah, I had a dude.
		Like, I had the worst temper than anybody I'd ever seen.
		I mean, I used to go into fits of rage.
		I was so angry early on, man.
		It's like the Hulk is like, Mike, you should chill out a little bit, man.
		Like, I was just.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's probably from being on your own at 14.
unidentified		Yeah, you know, what it is, is like, I was growing up in a very harsh environment.
		And I didn't know I was an artist.
		I didn't know I was a writer, director, whatever.
		You know, they didn't, you didn't see those growing up where I am.
		Right.
		And so when you're a sensitive kid, man, what you do is you build armor.
Playing Mike Tyson Armor 00:04:30
unidentified		Like, I was to play Mike Tyson later on, and I understood him quite well.
		And if you're sensitive, you, you know, anything that's precious, you put it in, you lock it in a safe and you become the safe.
		And it's, it's like, I grew up, my brothers were completely different.
		They're engineers.
		So things rolled off their back.
		But like for me, just I was just volatile.
		And luckily, I had martial arts to kind of folk put my focus into.
		But like I said, like a like I was to play Mike Tyson.
		I understood him a great deal.
		And, you know, even though you take the moniker of this monster, it's only to hide what's really deep inside.
		And that's why you would see if anybody's going to go into tears in front of a million people, it's people like Mike Tyson.
		And you go, how does that fit in the same person?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And so that's what I was growing up.
		And, you know, I don't know if you know this, but I was a school teacher before I was an actor.
		Oh, really?
		Yeah, I taught EMD.
		I was a special ed teacher.
		So I focused on a lot of kids who were very much like me.
		And I still do that.
		And the way I consider that my real job, whenever I'm off from work on a movie or whatever, I go into the inner cities.
		I go into community centers.
		I devote my time because there's nothing I could do.
		There's no better spending of time than something like that.
		Because I was luckily, luckily saved.
		I had just at the right times in my life, just different seeds planted.
		And so I'm confident that if those seeds were not planted, I would not be here.
		Because, like I say, I was been through some crazy stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a classic story.
unidentified		Yeah, bro, man.
		Like, I'll tell you, like, just a little under two years ago, a buddy of mine, it was a close friend of mine.
		He got out of prison.
		He was in prison for almost like 30 years.
		And he found me on Facebook.
		And so when I went back east, we linked up.
		And, you know, I know a lot of people who have businesses and everything.
		I hooked him up, you know, got him a job.
		And we were sitting over lunch.
		And in the middle of him telling me like a third or fourth story, like back in the glory days of us or whatever, while he was in the middle of this story, I was kind of getting myself set to kind of set him straight because I don't know if you want to call this superstitious, but I won't lie.
		I refuse to lie to my friends.
		I even, I won't lie by omission.
		So I was getting set to tell him, dude, man, you got to stop embellishing these stories.
		Just because you were locked up and you made these stories sound bigger than life.
		I get it, but that's not real.
		You got to really, you know, kind of not do that.
		And in the middle of me thinking that, and I'm listening to him, I go, holy shit, he's telling the truth.
		I started remembering what he was telling me.
		And I'm like, now I'm finishing his sentences.
		Not only was that story true, but the other ones were true too.
		And dude, like, I swear, every time I think about this, I got these goosebumps.
		And I realized, oh my God, how close I was to being where he was or just not being on this planet.
		Right.
		Like, I better devote my time into helping kids the way I was helped.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, don't pull that ladder up.
unidentified		No, hell no.
		Hell no.
		Even if I'm taken out, I accept that.
		Even if I'm in some projects where I'm not supposed to be and I shouldn't have been, I accept that because, dude, I am abundantly lucky.
		Like, it doesn't even, it doesn't even fit on the radar how lucky I am.
		And I could remember a lot of these crazy stories, you know, aside from the ones that he made me conjure back up.
		But man, I'm like, wow.
Downplaying It All 00:06:50
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that speaks to your character that you had downplayed it all in your mind so much that you thought he was exaggerating.
unidentified		I swept it under the rug.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because you're not that person anymore.
unidentified		No, no.
unidentified		But I mean, but There was so much, there were so many events, things that would, I just call it on a Wednesday that I went through that it's like, I don't know, like, I think I wouldn't trade it because I continue to be the happiest guy I know because of, I think, some of that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because you can appreciate the good times.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
		Yeah.
		And I should be slapped if I complain about anything.
		Right.
		You know what I mean?
		Like, what?
		And so, you know, so I just, boy, I just know I'm so blessed.
		And, you know what, what we do, what we're doing even right now, man, we're in the service industry, man.
		You know, you're here to serve.
		In my opinion, that's what we're all here for.
		And, you know, it's great that we get to serve and doing the things that we would like to do.
		Just inspired us.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's definitely a lot of what we do.
		I mean, there's definitely a lot of it, right?
		You entertain, but I feel very blessed that I've been able to expose people to so many different ways of thinking, so much information, so many different human beings that have led completely different paths that can tell you about whatever discipline they're involved in, what they've learned, and what we're working on right now, and what you can learn about the human mind, the body, ancient history, fill-in-the-link, like whatever it is.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		And I see you do that over and over.
		And utmost honesty, I remember like when you had to kind of pull Shaab aside and tell, as a friend, some things that are hard for people, you know, other friends to tell him.
		You know, and like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was real hard.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was real hard because I love that guy.
		He's a great person.
		He's a great human being.
		And I knew the path.
		I'd seen it too many times, but I hadn't seen it with someone I was that close with.
		I was like, you have to stop because not only that, you're in the heavyweight division, so the knockouts are brutal, and you're going to get three or four more in the next couple of years.
		And then you're not going to recover from those.
unidentified		Man, so many people, I hope they take a page out of that because it's so non-manly, I feel, to just not say anything.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And allow somebody you love to go down the road.
unidentified		I mean, that might be detrimental for them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was also Shaab had another path.
		He was really good at podcasting.
		He's fun.
		He's a funny dude.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's like, as a podcast, he's like, he's got a great personality.
		He's hilarious.
		He's silly.
		He's a big, giant, silly dude.
		And like, we would have so much fun.
		And he was doing really well.
		And he was making more money doing that than he was fighting.
		But his identity was so wrapped up in him being a top 10 UFC heavyweight.
		He had beat world-class guys like Merkle, Krokop.
		And he was legit, man.
		But that time had passed.
		And I saw that he was one foot in and one foot out.
		And as soon as the guy's one foot in, one foot out, you're going to run into some guy who has both feet in and is a fucking samurai.
		And then you're going to wake up on a stretcher.
		You're on the way to the hospital going, what happened?
		And you don't remember the fight.
		You don't remember nothing.
		And then you don't know where your keys are.
		You forget people's names.
		You tell the same story over and over again.
		And then you struggle to put sentences together.
		When you start seeing dudes with the slurs.
unidentified		Nothing's worth that, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Nothing's worth that.
		Because you're, I mean, at the time, he's only 35 years old or whatever he was.
		I'm like, man, you got another 45, 55 years of life.
		You can't do this.
		You can't sacrifice all these years for glory that will never be achieved anyway because you're not on that path anymore.
unidentified		Yeah, and it's not about what strangers say about you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		It's about your friends, your family, people who really love you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just so hard for people to abandon that identity.
		That's the hardest thing with fighters is to abandon that identity.
		We've seen so many guys, even the greats, they come back and they shouldn't, and you see it, and you see them get humiliated.
		You're like, oh.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		And when it comes down to it, these people, they don't love you, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They love you as the image.
unidentified		Yeah, they live vicariously through you.
		I remember one time I was in a fight in Boston.
		And I remember when something completely changed.
		Usually, if anybody would, because I did any kind of thing, I would do kickboxing or this tournament.
		I just loved my best.
		I think the thing I did best in the world was fighting.
		I had this, I always had these cheat codes in a way.
		And I enjoyed the chess match of it.
		And anybody who was against me, I don't care if you were my cousin or whatever, you were going to pay for all the angst that I've had in my life.
		But until there was this one time, I swear, I ducked a technique.
		I caught somebody with something that was kind of, you know, kind of cool.
		And I just remember the audience just cheering.
		And in that moment, I was like just angry.
		Kind of like, yo, this guy could really be messed up right now.
		You're cheering for me.
		You're living vicariously through me like I'm a pit bull or something.
		And I got angry at the audience.
		I fucking hated them.
		And I said, because if I was down on the ground, you'd be cheering for the person that put me down.
		And something just snapped.
		And I go, no, this is not enough for me.
		This is not what I want to do.
		And, you know, just something snapped.
		And I'd much rather be skillful, test myself in a skillful way.
		And I'd much rather not try to peel your head off, but show I could, as opposed to, you know, that triumph of dominating.
		It was nothing for me anymore in that.
		You know, and just something, just something just rubbed me the wrong way.
		And I just, anytime I would do any kind of competition, it was for me, and it wasn't for an audience.
Wesley's Surprising Arrival 00:05:37
unidentified		You know, just something soured.
		I always thought at one time, I'm going to be called out, you know, and I thought, oh, I'll rise to that occasion if that happens.
		And, you know, kind of like, remember the thing with you and Wesley?
		Which would have been, oh, my God, that would have been terrible.
		But I always thought, hey, well, you know, maybe, you know, something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think Wesley just needed money.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that was one of the things that I was doing.
unidentified		I don't think he'd ever be serious.
		I don't think that was ever serious.
		It's very much like I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We were in negotiation for quite a while, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We had lawyers involved.
unidentified		Yeah, it's always easy to pull a plug on something like that.
unidentified		Just like John Claude's talking about fighting Jake Paul, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is he talking about the radio?
unidentified		He's 100 years old.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He lays 50 pounds.
unidentified		I'm 100 years old.
		I'm like, come on, man.
		Come on.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is he really talking about that?
unidentified		I just saw something in the last couple of days.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm like, I think Wesley was serious because I think they had hit him with that tax case.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he owed a lot of money.
unidentified		Well, this is before that tax case.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was in the middle of it.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 100%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know it was.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It was 2000, I want to say five or six.
		It was in the middle of all that.
		And he was in trouble.
		It was serious.
		And he, you know, obviously eventually wound up going to jail.
		Yeah, yeah.
		So they were going to set up a fight with him and Jean-Claude Van Damme.
		That was the first fight.
		But Campbell McLaren, yeah, Campbell McLaren from the UFC was like, no one gives a shit about you fighting Jean-Claude Van Damme.
		You got to fight someone who's current.
		And so he said, let me contact Joe Rogan.
		He called me up and he said, would you be willing to fight Wesley Snipes?
		And I was like, what?
		And I was like, come on, really?
		I go, what is this?
		And so I said, let me think about it.
		I thought about it.
		I called him the next day.
		I said, let's fucking do it.
unidentified		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was training with Rob Kamen in the mornings and then I was doing jiu-jitsu at night.
		I trained twice a day for six months.
		Wow.
		I was always tired.
		I was always tired.
		That's the one thing that I realized, like, fuck, man, to be like, and I wasn't even a professional, really, but it was training like a professional.
		It's like, I can't believe how tired I am all the time.
		But, you know, I think Wesley had never really had a fight.
		I don't think so.
		I think he was an accomplished martial artist.
		He had good technique.
unidentified		I trained with Wesley's instructors, you know, Marcus Elgato, who's a good friend of mine, and also Lamar Thornton, who was Marcus Elgato's instructor.
		That's, I believe, that's the only, that's the lineage I believe that he's through.
		But I mean, I've never, I've known Wesley since way before he was kind of Wesley.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was a giant fan of Wesley.
		Yeah, which is also wild for me because I love Blade.
		Blade was like my favorite comic book when I was a kid.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		I just didn't, I didn't think they were serious about it.
		I couldn't imagine why Wesley, I always thought it was not real.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think Wesley thought that I was just a grappler and think he knew that I was doing jiu-jitsu.
		I don't think he knew my background.
		And so, like, they were, Wesley was talking to them, saying, Oh, he thinks he's going to be able to stop you from taking him down.
		He's going to catch you with a knee while you're coming in to try to take him down.
		Like, I go, Oh, he wants to stand up?
		Yeah, I go, I'm way better at that.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, I was wondering how that even occurred.
		I didn't think that was serious.
		I was like, okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was serious.
		Yeah, it was serious.
		It went on for a long time.
		It was a lot of negotiation to the point where I even talked about it on the UFC broadcast once.
		I said, Come on, Wesley, sign the contract.
		I'm getting bored training.
		Let's do this.
		Like, I have to do it now.
		I was like 35 or 36.
		I was like, I don't have much time left.
		If we're going to do this, we have to do this now.
		Like, come on, let's go.
		And then he decided not to.
		And then I'm like, that's probably for the better.
unidentified		Yeah, I know Wesley for a while.
		Wow.
		I remember when he was first telling me about the sovereign being sovereign.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's where they got him with that sovereign citizen shit.
unidentified		Yeah, and I was like, I wish I was friends with him.
		I would have said, dude, you're going to lock you up.
		I'm super protective of my friends.
		I've always been that way.
		And with Wesley, I was always like, my thing is he used to have people around him that I'm like, you know, we have little get-togethers at my house, whatever.
		I'm like, don't bring any of those motherfuckers or it's going to be a problem.
		You know, because there's just people that just I felt like were hangers on and, you know, that kind of a thing.
		And I was always like, yeah, man, you are you good?
		And, you know, are you staying healthy?
		I've always been that way because the way I look at it, he's a big brother.
		If not for him, it may not be for me.
		You know, he gave me some good advice early on.
		He always encouraged me that if I have a movie that's overseas, get there.
		You know, show up in those overseas markets and let them know that you're down, you know.
		And I took that to heart and that helped me out in my career a great deal.
		And so I, you know, I look at it like that.
		I've never, I'll never say anything derogatory about him or whatever.
		So, I mean, I'm always, I just recently tried to reach out to him like a couple days ago just to check in, man, because I, I, you know, I wish him the best.
		And, you know, I want to really, you know, start kicking ass again.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I would love to see him return as Blade.
unidentified		Yeah, that would be cool.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He could do it too.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		An older Blade, he could do it.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fuck, he was good in the original Blade.
Directing Special Effects 00:14:41
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's that opening scene.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was one of the best scenes in any action movie of all time when it's that vampire party and the sprinkler starts spraying blood.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And they're about to kill that dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And all of a sudden, Wesley shows up.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
		What really gets on my nerves is that, you know, he saved Marvel, man.
		That movie saved Marvel.
		You know that, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That movie was a huge movie.
unidentified		Even Stan Lee admits that.
unidentified		They were like in trouble until that movie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that crazy?
		Superhero movies are the biggest fucking movies in Hollywood right now.
		I mean, when they have a big budget movie, superhero movies are like the only movie that you can throw hundreds of millions of dollars and be sure it's going to kill it in the box office.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Whether it's The Avengers or Spider-Man or Superman or whoever the fuck it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the only kind of movie that Hollywood's like, yeah, okay, we'll throw 500 million at this one.
unidentified		Yeah, and you know, it's, it's, I'm not a big fan of those things.
		I, I, I, I know it's not, they didn't design it for people like me.
		Right.
		So it's for the fan base.
		And to me, it's like, oh, you know, I they tend to meld into each other as far as I'm concerned.
		They do.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They do.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's only so many times you could tell the stories.
		There's only so much, you know.
		Yeah.
		But I still enjoy them.
		I still enjoy some of them.
		They're fun.
unidentified		Yeah, I like when people are believable.
		Right.
		Believable.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's nothing believable about those movies.
unidentified		Yeah.
		You know, I like the actors that are like, you know, have some quirkiness and some edge to them.
		Right.
		So, yeah, yeah.
		You know, maybe I'm being unfair because I really hadn't seen a lot.
		Maybe I owe it to myself to give some of them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, I think you got it.
		It's simple entertainment.
		It's a silly release and escape.
		That's all it is.
		It's not a great, there's no great films that are superhero films.
unidentified		Right, yeah, because sometimes I'm like, oh, yeah, she's 90 pounds and she just threw a guy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me like Charlie's Angels or something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm like, kick him on stilettos.
unidentified		And it's like, anytime somebody lands in a three-point stance and then looks up, I'm like, I just changed the channel.
		I'm just like, stop.
		Just stop.
		Yeah.
		But, you know, people love those things.
		I'm like, that's cool.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know why they have so much appeal, especially in the American market.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People, that is one of the only movies that you can make that's guaranteed to be huge.
unidentified		Yeah, it's McDonald's, man.
		It's McDonald's.
		But I remember when I remember when you had, what was that?
		Like the 300.
		You know, that was like, nobody knew anybody.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		But that was just such a breath of fresh air because it looked like some badasses that were real.
		Yeah.
		You know what I mean?
		I'd like to see more of that kind of a thing.
		Like, you know, not the star power thing, but just some motherfuckers that you believe.
		Right.
		You know what I mean?
		That would, you know, that would attract me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Also, the style of that movie was so unique because it blended fantasy with reality.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It blended like comedy.
unidentified		History too.
		Yeah, You know, not wood.
		I got some things in the works.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
unidentified		Yeah.
		What are you working on?
		Oh, man.
		I've been blessed, man.
		I've got some really good movies coming out and some things that I'm planning on doing.
		I'm getting to a place where I'm really shooting the things that I want and I've been producing and all that stuff.
		So, you know, so I have movies that have their body count, but also have a little bit of something to say.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I miss?
unidentified		What's that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Spawn.
unidentified		Oh, man.
unidentified		Bro, a lot of people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People forgot about spawn.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't hear about it anymore.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was fucking great.
unidentified		Yeah, I had my.
		Man, most people didn't see the first adaptation of it.
		The first, well, I saw a cut of the movie before it, I mean, at this time, it had like 71 special effects in it.
		But Bob Shea at the time that was running New Line liked that version.
		He just gave the director, Karn Botch, to just add whatever he wanted.
		And the director was a special effects guy.
		So he started throwing special effects in there that was really killing the story, which kind of drove me up a wall because then, like, you didn't even see why my character wanted to get back.
		You didn't even see the life that I wanted to get back to because there was so much special effects.
		And even when I saw the final version, I'm like, what the hell is going on?
		People that knew Spawn, they were fine with it because they understood the character.
		But for me, it was like the story got all convoluted.
		But like, you know, but I mean, people love it.
		I think it was a thing for its time.
		But unfortunately, I saw a version of it that made you care about it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I understand, but I cared about the one that I saw.
		And I felt like I don't understand how Spawn sort of escaped the zeitgeist.
		You don't ever hear about Spawn anymore.
		You know what I mean?
		Like there's all these superhero films, all these different things, but Spawn was unique.
		And it was really good and dark.
unidentified		Yeah, I always said if they did another one, you should do it just like the comic book.
		Make it hard R or non-rated.
		Because, I mean, like to do a spawn PG, how we did PG-13.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		It's like, what do you want?
		Are you trying to go for a breakfast cereal?
		Like Spawnholes or something?
		Like, come on, man.
		Let's go hard like the cartoon, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		See if we can find a clip from Spawn.
		Because I feel like no one talks about it anymore.
		It's kind of weird.
unidentified		They damn sure talk to me about it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bro, it was good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What year was this?
unidentified		97.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They were fucking great, man.
unidentified		Now stay sharp.
		The night is young.
		Evil has a new enemy.
		Justice has a new weapon.
		has a new hero.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ha ha ha.
unidentified		The memories.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bro, that was a fucking great movie, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		New Line Cinema Presents.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was a great movie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How many did you guys do?
unidentified		One.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just one.
unidentified		Just one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There was nothing else.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wasn't there something else like a series?
unidentified		It was a cartoon first.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, it was comic book, then it was a cartoon on HBO.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		Keith David was the voice of Spawn on that one.
		Oh, yeah.
		Yep.
		And so, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But that was a big hit.
unidentified		I think so.
		I mean, it made its money back.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I remember it was very popular.
		Like, everyone who was talking about it, people got excited about it.
		Especially people like me that liked the comic books.
unidentified		Right, right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They were very into it.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was always surprised.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it just, it's weird to me that even the comic book spawn doesn't get brought up anymore.
unidentified		Right.
		Yeah.
		Every now and then, like when like I'm off doing a movie, whatever, I drive by comic book stores.
		I go and I just start signing shit, right?
		The spawn stuff.
		So there's still stuff there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's always giving me a hardcore fan base.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		So, I mean, you know, there's people like there's still hardcore about that.
		And then Tom McFarland has talked about doing another spawn for the last 25 years.
		That would be huge.
		But the weird thing is, it's like, okay, I wish you all the best of luck, bro.
		But you created the comic book.
		When he's talking about doing another spawn, I'm like, you haven't done a first one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like the comic book.
unidentified		No, he's not a director.
		Like, it's just like Stan Lee hasn't directed a Marvel movie.
		Right.
		And Tom McFarland is talking about doing another spawn, but I'm like, well, that would be the first time a person that created a comic book directed and produced a movie that I know of, right?
		Because even though he talks about he's going to do one, and he had this concept that he talked to me about, and then he said he wanted to, you know, I guess he wanted to use Jamie Fox.
		And he talked about this concept that spawn would be, you wouldn't see him.
		And it's like Jaws.
		He would never be around, but just people would get fucked up.
		All of a sudden, like a mist would come and people are destroyed.
		I'm like, good luck with that.
		You know, I don't know, but he's been talking about it for a while.
		And people say, oh, man, I'm sad that you're not the next spawn, that they're using Jamie.
		I'm like, when is it going to happen?
		He's been saying that for a long time, but I'm going, hey, maybe somebody is going to give him that amount of money to do a movie when he's never directed anything before.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		He hasn't directed anything before.
		He visited Set a few times because he created a comic book.
		Directing a movie is something completely different.
		You know what I mean?
		So I'm like, all power to you if that's happening.
		But it's like, I wonder why people believe it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a lot to bite off, especially a movie like that, which would probably a large budget.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		But, you know, but it's.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then you're going to get the executives involved, and they're going to fuck with it because they always have to have their say.
unidentified		Yeah, man, it's a miracle that a movie gets done the way it's intended, period.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I'm like, a lot of times when a movie works, I go, how did some executive not fuck this movie up?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		I mean, I'm always like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's only a few guys that can get away with a movie where everybody just leaves them alone.
		There's a few Tarantinos out there.
		Let them go.
		Just let them go.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you tried to make Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and you weren't a successful director, you were just some guy with an idea.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Someone would come along and fuck that up.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		Luckily, people leave me alone.
		I've been directing and doing my own thing.
		They go, okay, you got this.
		Okay, like I say, I'll give you the body count, but now if I could put stuff in it, you know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is going on with Jamie Foxx doing Tyson?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because that's been rumored for a decade isn't that.
unidentified		Yeah, that's another thing.
		It's like weird that Jamie Fox wants to do a Tyson and a spawn.
		It's like, I don't know.
		I don't take it personally.
		A very talented guy.
		But yeah, I think Jamie does a very good impression of Mike Tyson.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you got to gain like 100 pounds.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then Jamie's got to get, he's got to pack on that meat at 50.
unidentified		But then why?
		I just sit there and I go, why?
		When Tyson's life itself has been very transparent.
		Right.
		And so you can see the real guy in documentary form and everything else.
		What story do you have to tell?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
unidentified		I'm not trying to be a hater, but I'm like, I just, I'm just curious.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The only thing that would be interesting is seeing Jamie do it.
		Seeing him like he pulled off Ray Charles, like seeing him pull it off.
		That would be the appeal of it, I think.
unidentified		Right, but in my personal opinion, I don't think that's enough.
unidentified		You got to tell a story.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, I know what you're saying.
unidentified		Yeah, it's got to be some compelling story.
		I mean, hell.
		I mean, people saw Titanic.
		You know how it's going to end.
		But he had to present a story there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But Jamie is so versatile.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
		There's very few guys that can do all the different things that he can do.
		He can sing.
		He can act.
		He could do stand-up.
		And he could do all kinds of different characters.
		And I mean, and he's so believable in so many different roles.
		You know what I watched the other day, which is a fucking great movie that I forgot was so great is collateral.
unidentified		Oh, hell yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		No, no.
unidentified		When Jamie had collateral and Ray, to me, you couldn't have had a better year.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Two completely different mindset games.
unidentified		Yes, absolutely.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he became those people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He became Ray Charles.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And as good as he can sing, him singing as Ray Charles was insane.
unidentified		It's one of the best performances ever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ever.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But so is collateral.
		He really played that dude in collateral.
		You believed it.
		And fucking Tom.
unidentified		Tom Cruise.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		Tom Cruise really proved something to me in that damn movie.
		Because I would never think I would ever be scared of Tom freaking Cruz.
		Right.
		And how convincing he was.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's a bad motherfucker.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He is a bad.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's crazy as batshit, but he's a bad motherfucker.
unidentified		You have to brought it in that movie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You have to be that crazy to do all the stunts that that guy does.
		I mean, he's 60 years old.
		He's jumping off buildings and shit and breaking his ankle.
unidentified		Yeah, just like Johnny Depp.
		I'm like, Johnny Depp, when he did Black Mass.
		Like, I'm like, oh, you had that in you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
unidentified		Holy shit.
unidentified		And just like with Tom Cruise, I'm like, him having that character in him?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a scene in collateral that tactical instructors play.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The scene when they're...
unidentified		The double tap.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		He whips it back.
unidentified		Double tap, double tap.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He knocks the guy's gun out of the way, pulls it out.
		And it's so fast.
		It's so smooth.
		See if you can find that scene, Jamie.
		It's a scene where they're trying to take Tom Cruise's briefcase and he's in an alleyway.
unidentified		Yep.
		Ooh.
		Yeah, I played that over and over myself.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The amount of times that he must have drilled that to get that, unholster the gun, pull it out, shoot him, shoot the other dude, so smooth.
		And the way he did it, so professional.
		I mean, he looks like a legit hitman.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		Yeah, that was that character.
		I mean, from start to finish, like, to me, proved a lot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he embodied that guy.
unidentified		And you know, there it is.
		That's my briefcase?
		Is it your briefcase?
		Yeah, it is.
Black Dynamite Set Visit 00:06:58
unidentified		Why?
		You want it back?
		What else you got from me?
		Huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Come on, son.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I actually visited that set when they were shooting that.
		Not that scene, but it was another, it was another day.
		And it was, I remember it was weird because they were shooting something and they were shooting Tom, behind Tom Cruise's head.
		And they had eight camera angles just behind his head.
		I'm like, and I'm looking at the, you know, the video village where They made sure they had a choice of whatever perfect thing that they want.
		It was the craziest thing.
		I'm like, and I guess Michael Mann, he's known for like shooting a lot, but it was like eight cameras that's just behind the dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I'm like, this is a whole nother like level.
		Yeah, it was crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a great fucking movie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That movie holds up.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Oh, yeah.
		That's Prime Jamie, man.
		Yep.
		Yeah.
		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And the fact that he's got that much range that he can do this nerdy dude who's terrified, doesn't know what the fuck is going on.
		He's just driving a car.
		And all of a sudden he has his hitman with him.
		Then he gets wrapped up in this whole thing.
unidentified		Yeah, but as a fan, I want to see him do something else like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
		Like something like that requires what he can do.
		And there's a lot of, you know, that's one of the things.
		Not a lot of things out there sometimes.
		You know, so, you know, he's been doing things that I think show, you know, certain parts, but like to where he was going in collateral and Ray, you know, it'd be nice to see that stuff again.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's got to be hard to find those roles, right?
		And when you find those roles, there's probably like six or seven A-list dudes that they have like on a board somewhere and they're trying to figure out who's the guy for this.
		Yeah, but I believe.
unidentified		I believe you got to create your own stuff, man.
		Put it this way.
		Nobody was going to write Black Dynamite.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
unidentified		My thing is largely creating my own length.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was a fun movie, by the way.
unidentified		Well, thanks, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really fun.
unidentified		Thanks, man.
		So, yeah, man.
		So luckily, I enjoyed writing.
		I've always looked at everything from, I was always fascinated about this industry.
		And I showed a lot of things as a writer, separate from the acting thing.
		And so, you know, just putting it all together is something that's like I really enjoy doing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How do you dedicate your time when you're writing?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you just have an idea and say, okay, for the next X weeks, I'm going to sit down and dedicate myself to this?
unidentified		Dude, it's all different.
		A lot of times I will see the entire movie.
		Like when I did Black Dynamite, dude, I was in China going to set.
		I was in Shanghai.
		And I was listening to James Brown Superbad.
		And I just started thinking about, I'm laughing.
		I'm in the back of this car and there's a driver wondering what the hell is going on with me.
		I'm seeing the whole goddamn movie, including a nunchuck fight scene with Richard Nixon.
		And I'm laughing.
		And, you know, I started jotting stuff down because it occurred to me, man.
		Like, I just like, I mean, one day I was thinking like, wow, man, like, growing up, we had Shaft and well, we had Superfly and the Mac and all that posters like that that we idolized.
		And I'm going, those were pimps.
		There was something wrong with my childhood.
		Why am I like, the Mac?
		Like, that's a hero.
		And so it made me really think about it.
		And I'm like, I'm looking at these movies and like Jim Brown and Fred Williamson are like killing like 60 people and it's okay.
		Everybody's like this.
		They have a club and then they got all these women and all this.
		And I'm like, this is actually hilarious.
		If I do a movie that depicted it exactly like it is, thinking about this, one of the biggest movies of that time was Three the Hard Way.
		I don't know if you remember that movie.
		Jim Brown, Fred Williamson, and Jim Kelly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For not about Jim Kelly.
unidentified		The hard way.
		What was it about?
		It had the three predominant black exploitation stars, right?
		And the movie was about an evil Dr. Feather who had these leaders of liquid that he was going to put in the water systems of LA, Chicago, and New York that were going to kill all the black people.
		It's not comedy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the movie?
unidentified		It's not a comedy.
		It was going to give sickle-cell anemia to all the black people.
		Now, the conspirator thing, I've been a black man for a long time, and it is really funny because in the community, conspiracy is a big thing, right?
		So that whole conspirator thing, oh, they trying to get you, that kind of a thing.
		It really, its engine was that, that paranoia that this leader of liquid was going to kill black people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was so much evidence that those conspiracies were real, like the Tuskegee.
unidentified		But of course, that's something that's like, it's on its feet, though.
		But come on, a leader, something this big in the water systems that was going to kill all the black people.
		And that's not a comedy.
		That was a serious movie.
		But when you look at it, that's hilarious.
		It's absolutely hilarious to think that you can do a movie about that.
		So to do a movie, I thought that really talked about that time period where it was kind of this over-correction.
		Because, you know, you had in the 60s, there were like, you know, butlers and maids and all that kind of stuff.
		But now you had these super overcorrected badasses that could just do anything, right?
		And I thought it was hilarious to look at it and treat it as if it were like back in that day, like a lost movie.
		Actually, Tarantino was somebody I was talking to about that whole thing when I was putting Black Dynamite together.
Wick's Tactical Training 00:12:01
unidentified		And he had certain ideas, but I kind of went my own direction with it.
		But yeah, man, so yeah, things like that.
		Like, you know, I've gotten to a place where I'm putting these things together that really interest me.
		And I'm finding that there's an audience that likes it as well.
		But yeah, man, so, you know, it just occurred to me that it was bizarre.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, I mean, you know, so for that movie, that movie just came to you.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		But it came to me just like the whole movie came to me in a ride to set.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that normal for ideas?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Or do you sometimes sit down and say, like, I want to write an idea about blank?
unidentified		Sometimes, sometimes.
		Like, I have a movie that the next movie I'm going to do is a sequel to a movie I did called As Good as Dead, right?
		And it became Samuel Goldwyn's one of their most successful movies.
		I wrote the idea.
		It was based off my brother.
		My brother, he went from Florida into Mexico and started a family.
		He just fell in love with Mexico.
		And I kind of based my character on him.
		And he's basically a cop that's hiding out in Mexico and trying to avoid this syndicate or whatever that's trying to kill him.
		But that movie just came to me.
		I wrote it.
		We were in production like two months later.
		And we actually got the movie done within a year.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How did you get it made so quick?
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, they responded to the script.
		And it was kind of like a grown-up karate kid in a way.
		So my character, you don't know what's this black dude doing working construction in Mexico.
		And he's got his wing chung dummy.
		He's training in his backyard.
		And it's a kid who's trying to avoid the gangs that he befriends that he teaches this unique kind of martial art.
		And so one thing relating to another, this kid gets good at it and they trace the style back to my character.
		And then the bad guys are trying to kill me and I have to fight back.
		So what we're doing, we're about to do a sequel.
		I start that in a couple of weeks, actually.
		So I wrote that one.
		But yeah, so I feel like, I don't know, I'm still a fan of movies.
		I wouldn't write something I wouldn't want to see.
		And I've seen a lot.
		I think I understand this industry.
		I understand there's a lot of stories that I think could be told with fresh ways and with the action and martial arts that could be new and exciting.
		I'm getting to a place where I'm trying to make fight scenes look very real, including choreographing mistakes.
		You know what I mean?
		I think people have become so much more sophisticated watching UFC fights and all that type of stuff.
		I think you got to raise the bar to make something look real.
		And there's a lot of this stuff that's in the, you know, the superhero movies and whatever that you just kind of go, okay, you're seeing choreography for choreography's sake.
		Right.
		And you're not invested because you don't feel like you're looking at a real fight.
		And so I like to kind of, you know, use my platform to step that up a bit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's hard, especially as a person who is a martial artist to watch fight scenes and go, you have to kind of suspend disbelief and go, all right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
unidentified		Kind of like, you know, it's weird, but, you know, kind of full circle.
		It's kind of going back to the way Bruce Lee did stuff.
		And he's a little faster than the other person.
		He has a little bit more technique.
		And, you know, if you imagine, like, even if I imagine you in a real fight, your technique's not going nowhere.
		And other people are not going to have that same technique.
		You beat somebody to the punch.
		You do things that would logically give you the edge.
		That's what you shoot.
		You know what I mean?
		Right.
		Yeah.
		So it's not like you got to do a lot of camera tricks.
		If you're moving faster and stronger than another person, well, there it is.
		There it is.
		So luckily, you know, I mean, I can put things on screen that kind of resemble what things might look like, you know, and you get the benefit of the doubt because, you know, you're in a heroic position.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just very hard to do that.
		It's very hard to make it look real.
		There's a real art to that.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, but like with the movie that you turned down, Blood and Bone.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I turned down John Wick 4 too, though.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I turned down a lot of movies.
unidentified		You do.
unidentified		You did the right thing because what you're doing, you could not, you know, this could not be more, you know, up your alley doing the things that you're doing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		John Wick was hard.
		I'm a giant John Wick fan.
		Especially John Wick 1.
unidentified		And eventually there's going to be a John Wick 7, so you decide to do that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They got kind of crazy.
		They're over the top now.
		But even John Wick 1 was totally unrealistic.
unidentified		Oh, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Totally unrealistic.
		But so fun.
		I fucking love those movies.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I got something that's kind of in that vein that I just finished.
		It's a lot of body count, but a lot of CQB.
		I've been studying that for a while.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		CQB?
unidentified		Oh, close quarter combat.
		Of course, close quarter battle.
		But, you know, I've been doing A lot of like tactical training and kind of getting myself.
		I may compete at some point.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		I've gotten pretty into it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Where do you train at?
unidentified		Well, a lot of places.
		I train with a guy named Tyler Gray.
		He's Delta Forest.
		I had a lot of friends who are like, you know, special force guys.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You ever go to Terran Tactical?
unidentified		Oh, of course.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		I go to Taryn quite a bit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That guy's the best.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		He's a man.
		He's amazing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You want to talk about someone who's very technical?
unidentified		Oh, my God.
unidentified		He shoots from the hip better than anybody using a laser.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, he's preposterous.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's always iron sights.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, he doesn't, I mean, he uses red dots, but he prefers iron sights.
		He's like, they never fail.
		They never go wrong.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he's so crazy accurate.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's wild to watch.
unidentified		And when you think about like, how long, how fast could you just take out everybody in this damn room?
unidentified		It's kind of.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of spooky.
unidentified		Yeah, it is spooky.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it's also, he's so calm about it, too.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's weird, like, almost like autistic, like weird, just fucking rainman-ish.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, what the fuck?
		When you watch him do it, like, many times I've gone to his range and trained, and then, you know, people will goad him into it.
		Like, do a run, like, do this.
		And he's like, okay, I'm going to do this.
		I'm going to do that.
		I'm going to do this.
		I'm going to do that.
		And then I'm going to pull this out right here.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		It's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're like, what the fuck did I just watch?
unidentified		That is crazy.
unidentified		And then you see how many times he's won the championship?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ridiculous.
unidentified		And like, there's only a few people that won consecutive years.
		And he's got like seven years in a row and just chunks of.
		I'm like, this is crazy.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's a very unique talent.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Very unique talent.
unidentified		Yeah.
		A buddy of mine, like Tyler Gray, he just, he's been Delta.
		He's been, he's been decorating.
		He's, oh my God, his place in Vegas, he creates guns.
		And he's got like more in his arsenal than every gun store you can imagine.
		But like, he's like, he's something else.
		Like, one of the most mellow people you ever want to meet in your life.
		And he's been the guy, been the consultant and director on Navy CEOs for years.
		And, you know, but I got a lot of friends doing that.
		My brother, he just retired from Secret Service.
		And, you know, you don't know Danny Hester?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		He was a former Mr. Olympia, classic physique.
		But he's gotten into, I mean, I shoot with these guys all the time.
		And actually, Flex Wheeler.
		You know, a lot of the guys are into the gun stuff.
		So we go set up stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But once you start training, you realize how difficult it is and how long the learning curve is.
		Because you think, oh, you point, you pull the trigger.
		What's the big deal?
		Then you get into it and then you see someone like Taryn or someone who's competing and you go, oh, this is just like everything else.
		Just like karate, like jiu-jitsu, like there's levels.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Levels and levels and levels.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you see people competing and you go, oh, wow.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to do that someday.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		You're in a great place for it.
		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Texas is a great place for it.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a staccato range that we go to sometimes.
		It's awesome.
		They have all these different setups out there.
		They have this old West town with all these different targets set up and you run from doorway to doorway.
		It's pretty badass.
unidentified		Yeah, John Jones, I see, is doing quite a bit of that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		John Jones is a fucking scary human being.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And if you get past him, he's got his fucking dog Dutch.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which is, you know, he brings a Belgian melanois everywhere he goes.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		I know my good friend, you know, Josh Barnett.
		He's at Terran's a lot, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's another scary human being.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, and a very analytical, intelligent one of the most very well-read.
unidentified		He is like Jeopardy smart.
		He's like ridiculous.
		There's not many things that he doesn't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		He's amazing.
		I watch you guys, you guys on this show.
		I was very flattered.
		He started, he mentioned out of nowhere.
		He started talking about how he was inspired by myself and my wife.
		And that, you know, it actually got me real choked up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I was like, what, man?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Josh is a great guy.
unidentified		Yeah.
		You know, incidentally, my wife is somebody that I don't know.
		You met her a long time ago.
		You last saw her sliding down the Luxor.
		Oh, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
unidentified		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		On Fear Factor.
unidentified		On Fear Factor.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		Yeah.
		She was sliding down the Luxor when you last saw her.
		She slid right into my arms.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		And we've done our sixth movie together.
		Oh, yeah.
		So we've been, you know, we got two, two, our teenagers are, we got one less.
		Well, we got two left in the house going to college now.
		So, you know, we're about to be nested.
		Yeah, man.
		So, yeah, it's wild how these things kind of connect.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It is wild.
		It is wild.
		Yeah.
		Josh is one of the, he's like one of the best examples to me of when people think of a martial artist or think of a cage fighter, former UFC heavyweight champion.
		And you think of a guy like, oh, probably some brute, some dude.
		Have a conversation with him.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you realize the depth of his intellect and the depth of his knowledge, like how much he knows about Nietzsche.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He can quote Nietzsche.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, he's so well read.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He makes his own whiskey.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, like, he's a very interesting guy.
unidentified		Man, what a Renaissance guy, bro.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A real Renaissance guy.
unidentified		Yeah, we usually have the same birthday.
		So sometimes we throw parties together.
		Yeah, when he's in town.
		He's always in Japan and just all over the place, man.
		He's like, he's an amazing human being.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He really is.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And again, one of the best examples, like when people have a stereotype of what they think a cage fighter is.
Renaissance Fighter 00:04:59
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And Josh was the youngest ever UFC heavyweight champion.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		And man, that's probably like I've trained more with him than so many people.
		Like, you know, and it's just what a great friendship and what a inspirational thinking person.
		You know, and you know, so yeah, and you know, he did Never Back Down three with me.
		We shot that in Thailand.
		Oh, huh.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is it like training in Thailand?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's got to be fun.
unidentified		Oh, man.
unidentified		Kind of hot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the motherland of Muay Thai.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		Again, like with every style, it's strengths and its weaknesses.
		You know, a lot of them, you know, a lot of things are around, you know, they go around and not straight, right?
		Straight, you know, of course, the quickest distance between two points is a straight line.
		So it's not a whole lot of, well, they could do with a lot more boxing technique and some of those things.
		But man, talk about toughness, that kind of a thing.
		But it's kind of a tragic, like how they beat the shit out of themselves.
		By the time they're in their 30s, man, they're like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're busted up.
		Well, they start fighting when they're very, very young.
		But it's also led to them training so intelligently.
		You know, one of the things about Thai training, they don't spar like a lot of Americans do, where they beat the fuck out of each other.
		They play spar.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that play sparring allows them to not get beat up by the time they get into the ring on Saturday because a lot of them are fighting every week.
		So they do touch sparring.
		And a lot of people say, oh, you can't get good touch barring.
		Well, you certainly can.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Especially when you're fighting every weekend.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's probably the best way to do it because you're just working on timing, pattern recognition, and just getting your reps in.
unidentified		Yeah, just like with jiu-jitsu, of course, when you don't muscle things, when the technique, you let the technique do its thing.
		That's so much better.
		Right.
		And you maintain so much better as well.
		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I think one of the best examples of that is like Sanchai, because Sanchai is in his 40s.
		He's still fucking people up.
		It's crazy watching that guy fight.
		But you look at him, a very unassuming guy.
		He's not ripped.
		He's an older guy, but he's just his timing and his smoothness and the way he moves.
		That's very playful.
		He's just fucking people up.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		Man, it makes me.
		I miss Thailand.
		I actually did my, we did our wedding ceremony in Thailand.
		Oh, wow.
		Yeah, and you know who was who who officiated part of it was Tony Ja.
		Oh, really?
		Tony Ja did the Buddhist part of our wedding.
		He did the water blessing, and he also sang at the wedding.
		Yeah, yeah, he's cool.
		He's like Mong Bak.
		Yes, yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		One of the greatest martial artists ever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What a great movie that was.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For martial arts technique.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was like one of the first times real true Muay Thai was exhibited in a film.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Super high level.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		And Tony, just, my God, like, he would do these incredible feats in front of you.
		Just unbelievable.
		He could do a somersault, hit you in the shoulder, and just tap you like that with your foot, with his foot.
		He had that much control.
		It's unbelievable.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		He was sick recently, but I think he's overcoming, I think it was, I think it was a C-word, man.
		Yeah.
		And I haven't talked to him in a minute.
		I just found out about it like about, I don't know, a couple weeks ago.
		Yeah.
		I knew he got thinner, but I'm hoping that he's better now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's a legend.
unidentified		Yeah, he's something else.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's so fascinating to me how different parts of the world develop a different style of martial arts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And Thailand in particular, because of the fact that there was so much gambling and there were so many fights that they developed this very heavy leg kick, clinch, elbow, knee style.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was just very different than a lot of the other styles.
		And for a long time was really dominating in kickboxing.
		But then you're starting to see other styles, like particularly a lot of Kyokushin guys now.
		Yeah.
		Specifically out of Japan.
		Have you ever seen this kid, Yuki Yoza?
unidentified		Is he Kyokushin?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Kyokushin guy out of Japan who's dominating people.
		He fights very different, man.
		He's fucking up a lot of Thai guys with calf kicks.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		God, dude.
unidentified		No, no, I hadn't heard.
		I just officiated a Kyokushin tournament yesterday.
		Sunday.
		Was that two days ago?
		Yeah.
		I'm still connected in the Kyokushin.
		I mean, been doing that since I was a kid.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you did the whole thing, like, where you have to fight like 100 guys in a day.
Yuki Yoza's Calf Kick Dominance 00:15:14
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You did all that.
unidentified		I've done a 30-man.
unidentified		I haven't done 100.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm exaggerating, but it's like a lot of people.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, which is the toughest.
		Honestly, I love it.
		It was the toughest thing I ever had to really face because you come to a point where you want to give up and you have to just kind of walk the burning sands.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is it like walking the next day?
unidentified		Man, I had, I mean, I remember the first time I did a 10-man, and I had several knees on my legs, put it that way.
unidentified		Because they destroy your legs so bad.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		I did a 20-man one other time and made the mistake of having a, I had like a energy drink beforehand, which is stupid because now my heart is racing higher than normal.
		And so it made it even harder.
		But somewhere around, like inevitably, you get to a place where I remember the 12th guy, I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?
		Why are you here?
		You know, but you had to dig deep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you got 18 more to go.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		So I'm like, man, but honestly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's such a hard style.
unidentified		Yeah, but man, it's something about getting, you know, because you're going to be faced with yourself.
		You're going to be, you want to quit and you have to just dig down and get through it.
		And there's nothing like it when you accomplish it because you know where you can go.
		You know that most of the time you tell yourself you're done.
		You're not.
		But what a valuable lesson it is to know that about yourself.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And you can't, there's no substitute for that.
		And it's just something that you just benefit.
		I remember the last time I did this, we had to train out in Banff, Canada.
		Because usually these things are in Japan.
		And people from all over the style, they come and they train.
		You're like training eight hours a day.
		You got these little lunch breaks.
		And I didn't think it through.
		I think the last one was like about five, six years ago.
		I wanted to challenge myself.
		I wanted to do this, but I'm by myself.
		And most people come with family members and all that kind of stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you're by yourself, you're a movie star.
unidentified		Yeah, and I had the Target on my back.
		Of course.
		And it's like we'd have a training thing, and then you got a certain amount of time to go eat, but then people want to take pictures of me.
		And I'm the last guy to get into the lunch thing.
		And then I was like, oh, shit, I got 10 minutes to eat, and then I got to get back in the next training session.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you have a full stomach.
unidentified		Yeah, and then you got like, I mean, it kind of sucked, but I taught myself something.
		I said, you know, you could be three hours in.
		I tell myself, I just got here.
		I just got here.
		And I dig deeper and whatever.
		And then the last few days, you're just fighting down to the last person.
		And, you know, there's people that's like, you know, they got their eye on you because like, you know, I've got the bullseye on me.
		But the great thing is, dude, like I say, I learned a lot.
		I'm doing footwork with Frankie for years.
		I'm a boxing technique.
		I've got Benior Kides.
		Bill Wallace was my instructor.
		I've got so many things in my arsenal.
		And to test myself, it's such a great benefit to, you know, and it was weird because I was thinking like, am I insane?
		Because I had a movie that I was going to be starting like a week later.
		I could have just been messed up.
		I could have had a broken leg or whatever.
		A lot of times you leave with a souvenir, they call it.
		Like, you know, when you train in Japan, a lot of the Japanese want to give you a souvenir.
		That means a broken bone.
		But I had to try to, you know, overcome that.
		So in life, especially in this kind of coddled life I'm living, I don't get a chance to test myself that much.
		Right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And, you know, yeah, I had to, you know, listen to my own complaints and shut the fuck up and get through it.
		Yeah.
		Oh, it's not fair because everybody's taking pictures and you're doing this and I'm by myself.
		No, no, that's not, the point is, get through it, you know?
		And I'm so glad to do that.
		And I always like to, that's why I like to train with champions and stuff because, you know, that's you want you want to get through things.
		It should be, you should be tested.
		I mean, as a man, if I had a religion, a large part of it, if I was the head of my own religious cult, would be that men go through something.
		There's a rites of passage.
		Yes.
		You got to know how to protect yourself and your family and your loved ones.
		That to me is.
		is paramount.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You just have to know what's inside of you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And the only way to find out is to test it.
unidentified		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because otherwise you get these dudes that have their chest pumped out and they're talking loud.
		Why are they doing that?
		Because they want to scare people off.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because they don't know what they're capable of.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're terrified.
unidentified		Yeah, and you can't hide from yourself.
		Right.
		And that's the thing.
		I'm not going to bullshit myself.
		I want to know, you know?
		And it's great.
		There's no substitute for going through that.
		And that's the thing that I, why I love fighters so much.
		You know, you're basically naked to the world.
		Right.
		You have to dig down.
		You have to overcome things.
		That's why I love them so much because they're our gladiators.
		We live vicariously through them.
		And that's why I'm a little dogged about actors receiving those accolades when they haven't done it.
		You know what I mean?
		Myself included.
		I don't care if somebody says, oh, he's not a fighter.
		He's an actor.
		Fine.
		You should think that way.
		But personally, it's something deeper for myself.
		And one person I think I identify with that is you because I've seen you.
		I've seen you in the gyms back when it wasn't popular.
		And we're doing it for reasons that are not, it has nothing to do with glory or ego or anything like that.
		It's just for self-improvement.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		You know, and that's what it's about, man, because it's about overcoming obstacles.
unidentified		And your biggest obstacle in the world is yourself.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		My instructor, when I was very young, told me that martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential.
unidentified		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's so hard.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And people need something hard.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And what about Khabib's Khabib say?
		Like, what he says about discipline?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that rant.
unidentified		Man, I had to record.
unidentified		Oh, that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if that rant is real.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Somebody told me that rant is AI.
unidentified		What?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Is it AI?
		Damn it.
unidentified		What?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, who cares?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, it's in Khabib's voice, and I bet Khabib would agree with every word he said.
unidentified		Yes, yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Find that rant because let's pretend it's not AI.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Or it may be one of AI's greatest contributions to martial arts.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because becoming addicted to discipline.
unidentified		Yeah, every man addicted to something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Oh, it's such a great rant.
		Here it is.
		Give me this.
		Give me this.
		It's such a fucking great rant.
		Start from the beginning, too.
unidentified		Every man addicted to something.
unidentified		Some smoke, some drinks, some chase guns, some waste time.
khabib nurmagomedov ▲ ● ▼		But real man, he addicted to discipline.
		Too early wakes, to prayer, to training, to silence.
		Discipline, no need motivation.
		Discipline move without feeling.
		Discipline say, I go anywhere, even when tired, even when lonely.
unidentified		Discipline is best addiction.
		You want strong life?
		Discipline build it.
		You want peace?
		Discipline protected.
		You want respect?
		Discipline earn it.
		No shortcut.
		Only work.
		Be men with control.
		Not men with excuse.
		No crime.
		No blame.
		You want better life?
		Start with better habits.
		Discipline.
		Every day.
khabib nurmagomedov ▲ ● ▼		Until discipline become you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fucking yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, I don't give a damn if there's AI or whatever.
		Well, kudos to the AI person that put that together.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's how he lives.
		Yeah.
		So, even if it's AI, he would go, this is Akirut.
		Yes.
		Well, I'll tell you what, man, that part of the world, Dagestan, you want to talk about a hard part of the world that is developing some of the baddest motherfuckers.
		Even in Muay Thai, there's this cat coming out of Muay Thai out of Dagestan right now, Azadullah Iman Gazaliev, who's like 22 years old, and he is fucking everybody up.
		A Dagestani Muay Thai fighter who has his own style.
		He's this tall, lanky dude who's one of the most terrifying strikers alive right now.
		A lot of people think he's the best striker alive.
unidentified		Oh, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think he's 22, 22 or 23 years old.
		And he's just fucking everybody up.
		He fights for one FC.
		Give me a highlight reel of this cat.
		This is just a long fight, I guess.
unidentified		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The highlight reel didn't pop up right away, so I just want to win the first fight.
		That's it.
		Best technical striker in the world.
		That's it.
		Click on that.
		Give me some of this.
		Just start it from the beginning.
		This dude, that tall dude with the beard, Azadullah Iman Gazaliev.
		Watch this motherfucker.
		What a style he has.
		I mean, it's just this long, tall, lanky dude, perfect timing and measurement.
		And he just starts piecing dudes up.
		I think this is like his full fight.
		Yeah, well, I don't think so.
		If you scoot ahead, I think he fucks this guy up pretty quick.
		I've seen this fight.
		This guy he catches with one shot, but some dudes not so lucky.
unidentified		Oh, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was one shot.
		But it keeps going.
		And then give me the next fight.
		He just starts lighting guys on fire, including Thais.
		And they don't know what the fuck is going on because he fights different than them.
		I mean, he's a Muay Thai fighter.
unidentified		He's got that straight, you know, he's exploiting the fact that they got so much round technique.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		A lot of front kicks up the middle, and especially to the face.
		But also his spinning attacks.
		He's got wicked spinning attacks, man.
		And also comes off angle a lot.
		His head's never on the center line.
		Super fucking technical.
		But just lighting dudes on fire.
		And just an attacker, always attacking.
		And has the benefit of that range, that long range.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, dude is incredible, incredible.
		And again, 22 years old.
		Like, look at that.
		So he's combining like Taegmundo techniques, karate techniques, and precision Muay Thai.
		I mean, the problem with this, this, this, not this style, but this form, is that a lot of people aren't seeing it.
		One FC is doing a really good job of highlighting a lot of like elite Muay Thai fighters.
		You know, they have Tawan Chai over there and Sidichai and all these like high-level guys.
		But in America, this, for whatever reason, has not caught on.
		And the only way this guy's going to get the kind of attention that I think he deserves is if he gets into MMA.
unidentified		Boom.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, look at his axe kick, spinning back fist.
unidentified		Boom.
unidentified		His straight rights are no joke.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's a laser beam.
		He's so focused.
		He's so good, man.
		So good.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So the Dagestanis are now entering into Muay Thai, which is a terrible sign for all these Muay Thai guys.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, man.
unidentified		Those are hard people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hard people start at a very young age.
		I mean, a very young age.
		And also, Dagestanis now, because of Khabib and Islam, they all know that this is a pathway to greatness.
unidentified		Yes, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And so there's heroes and they're coming Ankhalayev.
		There's all these guys that have been world champions out of Dagestan now.
		So it's like you're seeing all these guys come out of there and some of these young guys that are coming up are so good.
		They're so good.
		But this is fascinating to me that you take a guy who's adapted this Thai style, but then morphed it into something that's different.
		And again, like you were saying, a lot of straight techniques.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Especially when you're a tall guy like that for the weight class.
		I think he fights at 145.
		And when you're that tall at 145, you've got those straight shots down the middle.
unidentified		Yeah, like his right is just like you can't really see it.
unidentified		You know, right directly at him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it's also the hooks, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		His hooks are coming around the guard.
unidentified		Right, right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like everything is precise and his accuracy is spectacular.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I'm a student, obviously.
		I watch every fight I can.
		I watch kickboxing.
		I watch Muay Thai.
		I watch Jiu-Jitsu matches.
		I watch it all.
		But I'm always fascinated by these cats that stand out.
		And this guy just stands out.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		It's great when somebody knows how to use their length like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		Well, Yuki Yoza, the Kyokushin guy that I was telling you, totally different.
		What this guy's doing is shelling up and getting in tight on guys and kicking the fuck out of their inner thigh, outer calf, lower, like he's chopping at their legs.
		So even Thai guys don't know what to do because they're not used to guys kicking their calves like this guy.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So he's inside going shin to shin.
		And you know as well as anybody, Kyokushin guys have some of the most conditioned shins in the world.
		They're always battering shin to shin.
		And this dude is just getting in.
		And you see in the second round, a lot of these Thai guys like, oh, fuck, I can't walk.
		I can't move right.
		My calves don't work anymore.
		So the calf kick, which is really kind of revolutionized MMA.
		It's changed MMA because one, two hard calf kicks, you're compromised.
		You're not moving right anymore.
		And you're not pivoting off that foot when you're punching.
		So your punching power is diminished.
		This Yuki Yoza guy is like putting it on Thai guys with it.
unidentified		That's something.
		I mean, especially for a Kyokushin guy to, I mean, the knock with Kyokushin, I've been doing it ever since I was a kid.
		It's just that not developing facial facial blocks.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, this guy has incorporated Russian-style boxing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's got Russian-style boxing with Kyokushin karate techniques.
unidentified		Well, yeah, but with that Russian-style boxing, they really kind of mastered the non-telegraph kind of because it looks like they're not going fast.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yukiyoza highlight reel.
		There's a bunch of fights with him and Thai guys.
		And, you know, the first round, Thai guys are doing their thing, and it looks like a normal fight, but the Yuki Yoza just starts chopping at those calves inside.
Kyokushin's Russian Punch 00:04:24
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he's like multiple kicks to the calf from in tight and close.
unidentified		Yeah, that's punishing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you see guys like playing at, like, go ahead, kick me, kick me.
		And then after a while, they're like, fuck, don't kick me anymore.
		They're trying to get matcha with him, but then it's not working.
unidentified		But yeah, like, what would it take to develop like this is Yuki Yoza?
unidentified		Like, like, oh, your thighs.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You see how he's like, he chop, he's chopping when he's getting tight.
		Look at this, always.
		Look at how much he's utilizing all the karate techniques, but also in tight just destroys guys' legs.
		But also spinning back kicks, all that other shit.
		But look at his boxing is excellent too.
unidentified		Ooh.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A lot of Muay Thai stuff, dumping people.
		But look at that.
		He's constantly kicking the inside of the leg.
		When they're committing to kicks, he's taking their legs out.
		This dude, one of my favorite guys to watch right now.
		Like, look, there's a Thai guy, man.
		He's just destroying their legs, man.
unidentified		Man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		An excellent movement.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he comes out of a very high-level gym in Japan that's produced a lot of really Masasaki Nori, another guy who's like that, who's a very similar guy who beat Tawan Chai recently.
		Like these guys are just destroying people's legs.
		So they're utilizing a lot of the question mark kicks, a lot of the stuff that evolved in Kyokushin, but putting it into kickboxing also with the toughness that is in a lot of the Kyokushin fighters.
unidentified		Yeah, I see them slip into a Superman.
		Yeah.
		Everybody's going to be susceptible for that.
		If you got a kick, a leg kick, that's that legitimate.
		Yeah, they're going to bite on that.
		It's going to be open for them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then he uses a Superman punch.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And another very young guy.
		So there's these people that are exploiting these holes and these styles because some of these Thai guys are so hard to beat.
		By the time they're competing and they're 25 years old, they might have 150 fights, so much experience.
		But this cat's figuring them out, man.
		It's really interesting to watch.
unidentified		Yeah, I would love to see.
		I wish there was, like, some kind of governing body that would get all the, like, some, like, superstars or whatever.
		Get this guy versus this guy from.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, one is doing that a lot.
		But, you know, one, unfortunately, is not that popular in America.
		What I love about one is they'll have grappling competitions.
		They'll have kickboxing.
		They'll have Muay Thai, and then they'll have MMA.
		They'll have them all combined on one card.
unidentified		One is the one that Michael Chevello is on, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was on that.
		Michael Chevelle's not with one anymore.
		Michael Chevelle is one of the best commentators.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's excellent.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Great guy, too.
unidentified		I'll probably be seeing him in another three weeks.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You going to Australia?
unidentified		Yeah, going to Australia.
		Nice.
		My wife and I, we're going to, well, we did a tour.
		I do like seminars over there and meet and greets and stuff like that.
		We haven't done that in a while.
		But yeah, got some really good, some good fighters out there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		John Wayne Parr.
		Yeah.
		You know, some great fighters have come out of Australia.
unidentified		Yeah, so yeah, we're going to have some fun out there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's awesome.
unidentified		Yeah, they're in New Zealand.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, another hotbed.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Another hotbed for fighters.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just warrior cultures.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Warrior history.
unidentified		Does possibly?
		I've never met an Australian that I didn't like.
		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're the nicest fucking people.
unidentified		They're so cool, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're the coolest people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're friendly, easygoing.
unidentified		Yeah, you have rites of passage still.
		You know, places like that.
		You know, you, I mean, it's, that's one thing that is sad about United States.
		It's like, we're not making men anymore.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not a lot of them.
unidentified		No, no.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When they are, they stand out.
unidentified		Yeah, you know, that's why it's like a lot of times in these movies, if you have an alpha male, a lot of times that alpha male, that American alpha male is being played by an Australian or somebody from the Chris Entertainment.
		Yeah, it's so, you know, it's like it's very rarely an American.
		It's like such a trip, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, masculinity is demonized here for some strange reason over the last couple of decades.
unidentified		Bro, I saw the beginning of a lot of it because, you know, like I say, I was a school teacher and I was right on the forefront saying, like, everybody gets a trophy.
Gifted vs. Hard Work 00:10:14
unidentified		You know, these kids, you know, they're, you know, it's about their self-esteem and you got to protect that.
		I'm like, come on.
		And, you know, taking away competition.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		That just, I saw the beginning of that shit.
		And it's just so, so bad.
		These kids don't know how to deal with loss or anything.
		And then they end up shooting the classroom.
		Right.
		You know, it's, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dealing with loss is one of the most important lessons you could ever learn.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you want to get better, lose.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Losing is the best medicine because you lose.
		I don't ever want to feel that again.
		And then you start thinking about all the things that you cut corners on, all the things that you didn't do.
		What can I do differently to make sure that that never happens again?
		That I never feel that feeling.
		Or you quit.
		Those are the two options.
		Either you get way better or you quit.
		But winning, sometimes you don't learn.
		You know, you go, well, I'm doing the right thing.
		I'm winning.
		I'm getting better.
		Developing confidence, that's good, but man, sometimes a loss is the best medicine.
unidentified		Yeah, man, I realized something when I was, you know, I was born with some gifts, okay?
		I did one thing that got me into college is decathlon.
		As a fluke, I jumped into a race against one of the fastest guys on the track team and beat him, right?
		And that was just a fluke.
		And the coach saw that.
		The track coach saw that and was like, oh my God, you're fucking running for the school.
		I was like, oh, okay.
		Like, I was just like, I didn't have anybody, any kind of adult that took a liking to me like that.
		And next thing you know, I'm on the track team.
		And I, and I started, I mean, I was really good.
		And then I wound up going to college because of that.
		And incidentally, that's the stuff that really kind of taught me to kind of evolve my martial arts.
		Because nowhere is there a benefit of like cutting off fractions of seconds in movement like track.
		Like when I'm doing the shot put.
		Well, a lot of times I was competing against people that were ginormous and all they had to do is stick their arm out and their arc was going to be better than mine.
		Well, I had to generate enough power to go at a 45 degree angle and inertia and all that to get past them.
		And with running, of course, if you shoot the gun off, all your motion has to go forward.
		If you go backward, you're going to be a step behind everybody.
		So as far as efficiency of motion, all the things I had to do with track, I started applying and fighting.
		And that's what kind of gave me cheat codes into things to where being super efficient really helped, right?
		And so one thing would like kind of help the other.
		But like, yeah, a lot of my whole track thing was a great benefit.
		But I did learn that I was kind of in a way like the Bo Jacksons or the Herschel Walkers.
		I was gifted.
		And so when I would fight, I was, you know, I was a big guy that was fast.
		And it didn't, you know, that was kind of rare.
		So fighting was easy to me.
		But I learned that when I was as the celebrated fighter, that was less of a good martial artist because then I kind of would kind of flake off other things.
		Like I wasn't, I didn't try as hard as other people.
		And that's another thing I don't know if Khabib really said, but it was a thing that he said about those gifted people, a lot of people who are gifted were not the best fighters.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is a quote from him.
unidentified		Exactly.
		And I took that, you know, that same thing because I realized, dude, you're doing it wrong.
		You're, I mean, my philosophy was like, I feel I adapted the philosophy of, okay, say this kid, Sean, is 140 pounds, and there's me, and it takes me a thousand kicks to become fatigued, and it takes him 100 kicks to become fatigued.
		And he pushes to 120, and I push to 1,001.
		Who's the better martial artist?
		He is.
		Because he's pushed into his comfort zone.
		He's pushing himself further.
		What if he one day gets to 1,000?
		For him to go from a hundred to a thousand, that's going to be a quality 900 that I don't have.
		Me being the gifted one, right?
		I'm looking at it using the comparative method, saying, Well, you know, you know, I mean, at the end of the year, I used to kick a basketball rim.
		You know, I had that ability.
		But when I started thinking about, well, what I compare myself to other people, that was the wrong thing.
		So I said, No, I'm going to be like Sean.
		I want to train to my ability, not in comparison to someone else.
		And that really taught me something as far as like, again, why I put myself through these things and the benefit of it by really like when what the martial arts really teaches is, you know, and the fact that, yeah, I had these gifts, but if I if I use those gifts as a crutch, I'm limiting what I can be.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're limiting your potential.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		And so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And oftentimes it's too easy for the gifted guys.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And so they kind of slack off.
unidentified		Right.
		Yeah.
		So, yeah, that's that's and I realized that's what I was doing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They also are not as comfortable with struggle.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And being comfortable with struggle is a very important part of growth.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		And it's a mixed message because we start to admire the freak sometimes.
		We, as men, we celebrate the pugilists a lot.
		And that's kind of a thing where it came full circle to where, okay, yeah, I'm able to do these things, but is that really me?
		Is that the limit of what I can be?
		And by having someone else go, oh, yeah, you can do this or that.
		That's kind of a that's not really the crux of it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
		And it's in and it's really about like, yeah, there's going to be people that's going to praise what you can do physically.
		But is that, but I realized there was a point where that was kind of retarding where I could be mentally and what I can really become.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We also have a responsibility to those gifts.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because if you are gifted athletically, you have a responsibility of achieving the full potential because you've been given this thing by genetics, by life, by God, this thing where you are faster, you move quicker, you have more explosive power.
		But are you going to harness that gift and allow it to reach its full potential?
		And when you do that, then you get a Mike Tyson.
		When you do that, then you get a Michael Jordan.
		You do that, then you get an elite of the elite.
		You get what David Goggins always liked to call uncommon amongst uncommon men.
unidentified		Right, right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's the real hard thing to do.
		Because so many of these really gifted guys in the gym, they always kind of peter off and disappear.
		And when they're in a fight where they fight another gifted guy that maybe trained a little harder than them, maybe he's got a little bit more experience, they realize, like, man, I don't want to struggle like that.
		I don't like that.
		I don't like that feeling.
		I like beating up guys in the gym that are below me.
unidentified		Yeah, and then you got to deal with that person in the mirror.
		Yeah.
		And that's not hard.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's hard for guys when they're the hammer their whole life.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then one day they're the nail.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you see guys that are like really elite that are dominating and then one day they get fucked up and then you never see them again.
		Oftentimes.
		But then you'll see the guy who like gets fucked up a bunch of times and keeps showing up.
		He keeps showing up and keeps learning.
		And then you realize like, oh, this guy is now elite.
unidentified		Yeah, and those are the true heroes to me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		You know, there's people I don't want, you know, sometimes you get in trouble pointing out people.
unidentified		Like, I don't want to say somebody like Izzy or whatever, but like you see the people who are used to having that ability over other people and when it gets hard.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Right.
		And then it's like even sometimes there's a talk about even Tyson.
		And as just people who are just spectators, when you go, oh man, there was this guy so gifted.
		Now, some of the knock has been that when it became hard, you hadn't seen him dig down and overcome that thing.
		Right, right.
		You know, because a lot of times when it got hard, it was like he just, you know, kind of tapped out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And so that's something that, you know, not to disparage him, but just as people are looking at life, we look at those things and we can take a lot of meaning from that and apply that and say, oh, wow, is, I mean, if that's on him to say, oh, was that the case?
unidentified		Or is it something that, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think with Mike, it's a very special case because I think he had the elite coaching in the beginning with Customato and training.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then when Cuss died, he was kind of left with all this amazing ability that he had developed when he was young, but not with the elite coaching.
Unlikely Champion 00:15:22
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, so if Mike had left when Customato died, if he had then went to Emmanuel Stewart, or if the, you know what I'm saying?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because he had then went to an elite boxing coach and had someone analyze his style and someone he really respected.
unidentified		Respected, yes, absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That he could still maintain that same level of discipline when he was the 21-year-old dominating the world.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
unidentified		But he has so much pressure on him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So much.
unidentified		Because, you know, I had to play him, so I had to study everything he did.
unidentified		And it's interesting because, oh, my God, like, I always viewed him as somebody who was always looking for a father figure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I would study him.
		And, you know, with Customato, he would dress like Customato.
		He's a young black guy from Brooklyn with suspenders.
		Right.
		You know, in a cavity hat.
		Like, you know.
		And then when Customato was gone, he was around Kevin Rooney, and Kevin Rooney had this really fast way of talking.
		And it seemed like he adapted that.
		And he was with why am I blanking?
		The other manager.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jim Jacobs.
unidentified		Jim Jacobs.
		You know, Jim Jacobs was married.
		And I think marriage became important to him at that point because he was really under the umbrella of Jim Jacobs.
		And then when he was with Robin Gibbons.
		With Don King.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		The N-word is every third word out of his mouth, very much like Don King.
		He goes to prison.
		He's got two father figures on him.
		Miles Tongue and he's got Arthur Ashe on another shoulder.
		And I would just notice that even speech patterns would change.
		And I looked at him as, wow, here's a guy that I felt like I identified with a great deal because coming from the same kind of place.
		But yeah, it's interesting because I think a lot of people don't know how much struggle he had to deal with because people think that Kevin Rooney was kind of a savior in that situation when he wasn't.
		Kevin Rooney explained to me directly that he says, if you ever see Mike, please apologize for me.
		Because When Mike was married to Robin Gibbons, he didn't want to do this interview.
		And then turn around, Kevin Rooney did the interview.
		And Kevin Rooney is like, I really messed up when I did that.
		And Kevin Rooney even told me that when at the Spinx fight alone, Kevin made like over a million dollars.
		He left that casino owing.
		Mike had to bail him out so many times.
		And so people thought, oh, Kevin Rooney is in control.
		No, Mike was, I mean, he had so much pressure on him.
		And I think with Don King trying to hire Mike's cohorts to help out, if he's going to hang out with him anyway, to try to just do that.
		He had so much, this dude had so much pressure on him.
		It's unbelievable.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And Don King definitely took advantage of that.
unidentified		Yeah, I believe so.
		You know, because I knew Don from, because I was always in the fight camps with Frankie Lyles.
		In fact, that's how I got to first meet Mike Tyson.
		When Mike was in prison, Frankie put Mike and I on the phone together.
		And so I would, you know, do my little kind of interviewing of Mike while he was in prison because I was going to be playing him.
		So I wanted the whole story.
		Right.
		And, you know, and I went to Cat Skills on my own and knocked on that door and spent time with the people he grew up with in that house.
		Oh, wow.
		You know, so I learned a lot.
		And there's a lot that the public doesn't know and that I think he was concerned about coming out.
		And it didn't.
		And so it was really interesting.
		I just got, I was front and center on how much pressure this guy had to deal with.
		He had to kind of develop with the whole world looking over his shoulder.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he was 20.
		He was just crazy.
		Youngest ever heavyweight champion of the world.
		He went from being a 13-year-old kid with no family to being adopted by this guy who's not just training him, but also hypnotizing him.
		And then he's got Jim Jacobs who exposes him to this library of all the greatest fighters of all time.
		And he's watching video footage of it.
unidentified		Bill Caton.
		Yeah.
		Bill Caton and Jim.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's an extraordinary story because it's unlike anyone else's.
		Like the environment that he was exposed to and the way it produced this guy who was unlike any heavyweight before.
		I mean, in his prime, I always point to the Marvis Frazier fight.
		I always tell people, you want to see like the scariest motherfucker that ever stepped into the ring, Mike Tyson versus Marvis Frazier.
		He was just undeniable, just undeniable.
		But that pressure, the kind of pressure that no one could explain what that's like.
		There's no internet back then, so there's not as many famous people.
		So like, who's he going to relate to?
		Who's going to tell him what this is like?
		There's no one like him.
		You had Muhammad Ali, you had a few other guys that could maybe tell him what it was like.
		But for the most part, he's got no roadmap.
		And he's out there in this world of superstardom.
		We could do whatever the fuck he wants.
		Everywhere he goes, people are screaming and cheering.
		And he's knocking everybody out in the first round.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		The pressure on that, man.
		And then they have to fight Holyfield.
		Right.
		A guy who was really kind of more like a big brother to him throughout his life, you know, his professional life.
		Because, you know, Holyfield was a cruiserweight.
		You know, and Holyfield was the type of guy, how you doing, Mike?
		You checked on him and all that type of stuff.
		Then he has to fight this guy.
		You know, it was deep down, like, he's got to fight this guy who's this, he's got this reputation as a holy man, and he's all this type of stuff.
		And then I remember being at that fight, and I remember the press conference, and Mike was like really manufacturing this hatred that I was like, that's not real.
		Like, he's trying to dig down to really get this edge to really hate Holyfield.
		And I was like, I thought that was a mistake.
		But, and I don't think psychologically, he was in his game.
		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Holyfield had an edge on it.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it was also the fact that the Holy Man thing was a big deal.
		Like, Holyfield had this incredible belief in God, and he really believed that God was looking out for him and he was going to go in there.
		Yeah, and then couldn't be deterred.
unidentified		Dude, the third round, I mean, look, I studied all this stuff on Mike Tyson.
		Third round of that first fight got chills because think about it.
		He heard something that he never heard his entire career.
		Everybody started chanting for the other guy.
		Right.
		Holy Phil.
		Holy Phil.
		And I swear to you, I saw just the air come out of this guy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And it was like, I've done all of this, and they're chanting for this man.
		And how gracious he was, how Tyson was at the end.
		I felt like that's not a new thought.
		You kind of had that opinion of him going into this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, Holyfield had been through the wars, right?
		He had those wars with Riddick Bow.
		He had the first war with Dwight Muhammad Kawi.
		Remember that fight at Cruiserweight?
		Oh my God.
		Go back and watch that fight.
		He had the war with Burt Cooper.
		He had wars.
unidentified		And Holyfield was unflappable.
		He's like, he's like, I don't know why Mike's saying this about me, but he's just like, he never got angry.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like, how are you doing?
unidentified		It's hard to maintain anger for that dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's just like, okay, well, that's also terrifying, too, because you know, you can't get in there.
		You're trying to get in that head, and it's like, you're not getting in there.
		God's in there.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		And then I was like, if you look at it, you know, Mike Tyson was committing to every first blow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		Holyfield is a counterfighter.
		Fake him.
		Let him throw that counter and you got him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And I was like, I think normally Mike knows this.
		Holyfield's center of gravity, so different.
		He's thin-legged, big up top.
		Mike should be able to push him easily, easily.
		I didn't see the things that I normally saw from Mike Tyson in that fight, which made me feel like this is a psychological component.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a psychological component, but it's also a training component because, again, he wasn't with an elite trainer at that time.
		It wasn't the same as him being trained by Costa Mano.
		It wasn't the same.
		But he didn't have the bobbing and weaving style that he used to have.
unidentified		Do you remember he caught Holyfield with the body shot and the uppercut?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And just like, basically, you almost said, you saw, finish him.
		But he just chilled.
		Do you remember that moment?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't specifically.
unidentified		Yeah, there's a moment.
		There's a moment like that that he heard him.
		And Holyfield looked like it's like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but Holyfield would rebound.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the bow fights.
unidentified		But when you look at Tyson, you look at almost everything he's done.
		I thought I was about to see the beginning of the end.
		And I'm like, what the?
		I remember being there going, why isn't he jumping on him?
		You know, me.
		Hey, maybe I'm wrong, whatever, but I swear I saw that moment.
		And I remember going, what's going on?
		Why is any not jumping on him?
		I mean, it's interesting.
		It's interesting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Psychology plays a big role in how you feel about the opponent.
		And the opponent essentially holds up a mirror and it allows you to look at yourself.
		And he's comparing himself to this holy man.
		He probably didn't like it.
unidentified		Joe, you know, I think that's the way I thought about it.
		And of course, who am I to do?
		But this is my opinion.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Those dudes with that kind of character, like Holyfield had at the time, those are scary guys.
		Because they can't be broken mentally.
		Right, right.
		And if you try to break them physically and he rebounds, like, oh, God.
		How much do I have left in the tank?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How many more of these shots can I take?
unidentified		Yeah, no, it's different if somebody like taunted you.
		Now you can, you know, manufacture like, you know, but when the guy's just like, okay, I'm just doing my thing.
		You start going, oh, is it me?
		Because you don't, then, you know, it's like that's the, that's when you had Fedora with somebody like that.
		It's just like this.
		It's like, you just drown yourself.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Stoic.
unidentified		Because I can't derive nothing from him.
unidentified		It's like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he was the best at it.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fedor was the best at it.
		Fedor would be in the middle of the most chaotic war.
		And it looked like he was just sipping a cup of coffee.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
		There was no one like that guy.
		He's one of the most unique characters.
		I think we were robbed of one of the greatest heavyweight matchups of all time when they never figured out how to put Kane Velasquez versus Fedor when they were both in their primes.
unidentified		Man.
		Kane Velasquez is the scariest person I've ever seen, as far as I'm concerned.
		Like, if there was one guy that, like, because I pride myself, I get in the ring with anybody.
		That guy, man, never got tired.
		Man, he's had cardio.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He had cardio for a heavyweight that was like a marathon runner.
		It didn't make any sense.
		He was a 240-pound guy who never got tired.
unidentified		Yeah, didn't I?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Perfect technique.
unidentified		Yeah, and I think the fights with Junior Dosantos.
		I feel like they ruined each other.
		Yes.
		I feel like they ruined each other.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think certainly ruined Junior, especially the second fight.
		The first fight Junior caught.
		The first fight, Kane should have never took that fight.
		Kane had to take that fight because it was on Fox.
		It was a big deal.
		It was the main event of the Fox, the first Fox card.
		And Kane blew his knee out.
		So if you look at that fight, Kane's wearing a knee brace.
		His knee was fucked up.
		Like his meniscus was torn.
		He was all fucked up.
		He couldn't anchor on it.
		He couldn't really post on it.
		And then he couldn't get out of the way.
		And Junior caught him with a big right hand, cracked him, dropped him, stopped him.
		And then he comes back.
		Here it is.
		Here's Tyson versus Holyfield.
		Tyson, unleashing uppercuts from the power.
		Boom.
		Yep, Yeah, but I'm but Holyfield's still there.
		He's still there.
unidentified		If ever he has a chance, he has a chance right now.
		Evander's hurt.
		That right hand in a body.
		You heard what he said, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But that took some wind out of Evander right away.
unidentified		Biggest round for Mike yet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But the thing about Evander is Evander was always there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He had been through these kind of fights before.
unidentified		But I don't know where I am, but I was there.
unidentified		And something about seeing that, I felt like, oh, he's about to take him out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But I think because Evander rebounded and Evander had a history of rebounding.
unidentified		Oh, sure, sure.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Of wars.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Especially when he played both fights.
unidentified		It still doesn't change the fact that there was, I feel like there was an opportunity.
unidentified		And that was a very untyson-like situation.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I just don't think Tyson was Tyson anymore by this time.
		I mean, I think he was a one-punch guy by this time.
		He wasn't cutting those crazy angles, but he would slide off to the side and rip the body and go.
		He was standing right in front of guys.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He lost a lot of what made him special, which was the speed of combinations and the movement.
unidentified		The movement is primarily because he couldn't even, he couldn't have never gotten that far if he didn't do that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Show that Marvis Frazier fight.
		Show that Marvis Frazier fight.
		Tyson versus Marvis Frazier is my favorite favorite Tyson performance.
		Because Marvis Frazier looked like he was going to a funeral at the beginning of the fight.
		Look at him.
		Look at him.
		I mean, you feel the energy from his face.
unidentified		And he didn't play the Covenant right after this with the grizzly bear just mauling out of him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's the same thing.
unidentified		Here it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's just all over Marvis, like from the beginning.
		This was on ABC Wide World of Sports.
		I remember watching this at home.
		But look at the bobbining and the weaving.
		It's not just right in front of him.
		It's angles.
		Like right here.
unidentified		Boom.
		Oh, man.
		Oh, man.
Muhammad Ali's Shadow Boxing 00:14:24
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was when he was the champ.
		I mean, he wasn't the champ yet, but he was the champ.
		He was about to fight Trevor Burbick, but everybody was like, oh, my God, he's real.
unidentified		Yeah, here's the thing that sparked some controversy.
unidentified		Mike Tyson versus Muhammad Ali.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It depends on which Tyson and which Muhammad Ali.
unidentified		Well, it's the best of both.
unidentified		You know, you said, of course, he got his best.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The best Muhammad Ali wasn't Muhammad Ali.
		I think it was Cassius Clay.
		I think the best was when he fought Cleveland Big Cat Williams.
		To me, I always tell people, like, you want to know Ali before they took his title away, before they put him on the shelf for three years because he wouldn't fight in Vietnam?
		Watch Cleveland Big Cat Williams because Cleveland was a big, scary power puncher, and Muhammad Ali was just dancing around him, dancing around.
unidentified		But was he bigger than Muhammad Ali, though?
		See that Cleveland?
		That's the thing about Muhammad Ali.
		People don't realize he was like the biggest guy in the ring.
		You know, he was only four pounds different than Foreman.
		People don't realize because he moves around the way he moves.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Back then.
		But in the Cleveland Big Cat Williams days, he was lighter.
		Yeah, he was only like 215 or 220.
unidentified		And Cleveland Williams was what?
unidentified		He's big.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at the size of Cleveland.
		Look at his back.
		Look at the back on Cleveland.
unidentified		And look at the legs, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but he was a power puncher, man.
		You watched somebody.
		Look at his back.
		Cleveland was a scary dude, man.
unidentified		And he might be lean.
unidentified		He might be lean, but Muhammad Ali's a big dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's definitely a big dude.
unidentified		I think Muhammad Ali is bigger than that guy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But look at the movement, man.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So this movement was absent when he came back three years later.
		He never fought like this again.
		And when he fought Cleveland Big Cat Williams, Cleveland just did not know where he was.
		He was 212.
		Williams was 210 at weigh-in.
		Oh, okay.
		Well, dudes were smaller back then.
		Like, think about Rocky Marciano.
		He was only 185.
unidentified		But the thing is, people don't realize because he's fighting like a lighter guy.
unidentified		You got a bigger guy hitting guys, especially he'll trick people to coming in, and that magnifies everything.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, sort of, but they're basically the same size.
		But 212 is fairly small.
		This is smaller than Mike was when Mike was in his prime, and Mike was only like 215, 220.
unidentified		220, yeah, 221.
		So that's why it's interesting because Mike moved his head, and the people who did the best against Muhammad Ali was Joe Frazier and Ken Norton.
		Who moved their heads?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but again, these are the guys after this three-year break.
		This three-year break, Muhammad Ali didn't train.
		He didn't train at all for three years.
		When you watch when he comes back after that, like, come on, son.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The speed.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And Cleveland's like, what the fuck is going on?
unidentified		But speed and a bigger guy.
		That's the thing.
		That's the thing.
		Because you thought when we were going in this clip that he was bigger than Muhammad Ali.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I did.
unidentified		Yeah, so, but the thing is, like, people don't realize how big Muhammad Ali actually was.
unidentified		Because George Foreman, you know, was a monster.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at these combinations.
unidentified		His legs are bigger than George Foreman's.
unidentified		And we know where the power is, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, George Foreman, what did he weigh when they fought?
unidentified		218, and I think Muhammad Ali was 214.
		They were like right.
		So the actual fight day, who knew who was heavier?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		But I'm just saying it's interesting because you got a guy the same size as Foreman moving faster.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but he didn't in that fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		In that fight, he mostly laid on the ropes, remember?
unidentified		I mean, he lost the rope, though, but I'm seeing a lot of that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's still a big 220.
		212 to 220.
		Pretty close.
unidentified		Yeah, I've seen it different.
unidentified		I've seen that 218.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He wasn't the same guy.
		If George Foreman of that time fought Cleveland, the Muhammad Ali that fought Cleveland Big Cat Williams, it's a completely different fight.
		Foreman's getting pieced up.
		Yeah, you're pieced up from the outside, and Ali was just picking him apart and moving.
		And Foreman's swinging in there.
		He was like nobody else before him, man.
		He was so different.
		He was so different.
		But those three years when he had to take three years and he didn't train at all, and then he came back and now he's 30 and no strength and conditioning for three years, no running, no boxing.
		His body looked different.
		Who did he fight when he came back?
		He fought Lyle?
		No, that white dude had horrible brain damage.
unidentified		Cobb?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jerry Cooney.
unidentified		Oh, Jerry Quarry.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, Jerry Quarry.
unidentified		Jerry Quarry.
unidentified		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, when he fought Jerry Quarry.
		See if you find that fight.
		Now, look at his body when you see it.
		You see his body smooth.
		His footwork doesn't look the same.
		His timing is off.
		He had a ton of ring rust.
		He just didn't.
		What's that, Jimmy?
		He just didn't look the same.
		He didn't look the same.
		And I think that three years, they fucked him, man.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They fucked him.
		They fucked him.
		And I mean, look, it made him a cultural hero because he wasn't willing to fight in Vietnam.
		And, you know, he famously, like, look at his body.
		It's different, man.
		He's just not the same guy anymore.
		He's not moving as fast.
		And Jerry Quarry was just a really tough guy who was, you know, famous for being able to take a beating.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, Ali didn't have the endurance anymore.
		Like, look at him.
		He's just not the same guy anymore, man.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was, he was a shadow of what he was before.
		He still went on to win the title.
		He still went on.
		But I always wonder what he would have been if those three years were not stolen from him in his peak, in his prime.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, that would have been something else.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		You know, there's one interesting thing, another thing, interesting thing about Ali is like, try to find him throwing a body shot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not a lot.
unidentified		No, he almost never did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Maybe a jab or two to the body.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, it's true.
unidentified		It'd be interesting to count up all the body shots throughout his whole career.
unidentified		And you might get 10.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
unidentified		Yeah, it's interesting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is.
unidentified		That's why, I mean, that's why when people talk about the greatest boxer, of course, he's one of the greatest human beings, greatest Americans ever.
		Right.
		Like, just, man, the stuff he's, he put it, talk about putting himself out there for, you know, as far as a servant of the world.
		There's nobody, I don't know anybody who compares to him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Also, the personality.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When he would go on talk shows, and he was just so fun.
unidentified		How sharp was he?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so sharp.
unidentified		All those things were memorized.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		One of my favorite ones was Howard Kosell said, you're a very truculent champ.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he goes, whatever truculent means, if it's good, I'm that.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he was just a different human being.
unidentified		He was not scared of anything, man.
		There's some stuff that some interviews that he's being real controversial.
		Like, he would actually talk shit to people and talk about whooping their ass.
		You know, just recently, I've seen some stuff that I was like, wow, I hadn't seen this one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		If anybody disrespected him, if anybody like if they wouldn't call him Muhammad Ali, if they were calling him Cassius Clay, he would them up.
		What's my name?
unidentified		Pop!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's my name?
unidentified		Pop!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		He was a special person, and just culturally, like one of the most significant figures ever in the history of America.
		Because at a time where the world was torn, like, why the fuck are we in Vietnam?
		And this one guy says, I'm not doing this.
		And then they're like, okay, we're going to strip your title away from you.
		And then for three years, he was, you know, persecuted, and the whole world was watching, and they eventually let him fight again.
		But by then, we had realized that Vietnam was not a just war.
		And this guy, they had taken three years of his life away from him because he wasn't willing to participate.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
unidentified		What a hero, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A real hero.
		A real hero.
		And, again, a cultural icon, like just a different kind of human being that inspired so many people outside of fighting.
		My parents were hippies, and my parents wanted to watch the Leon Spencer rematch when he fought Leon Spanks.
		Like, everybody's excited, sitting around.
		I'm like, I remember being a little kid going, I can't believe they want to watch this fight.
		This is so weird to me.
		Like, they want to watch a fight because that's who Muhammad Ali was.
		He was just different.
		He meant something to America in a way that no other fighter before or since has.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Man, there's so many, man, just even for equal rights and just for everything.
		Yeah, so much that I really can't think of many people that have been more significant.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, and many people think, many people think about like, what do you stand for?
		What do you, I mean, this guy, he could have easily just taken some stupid fucking desk job with the army or something.
		And, you know, easily, yeah.
unidentified		I mean, I did a movie last year in Louisville, Kentucky.
		And while I was there, I went and visited Muhammad Ali's gravesite.
		And dude, man, I didn't expect any.
		I was just like, let me see it.
		And dude, I couldn't talk for two hours afterwards.
		I just sat in my car and just all got overwhelmed just to think what this man really meant.
		Yeah.
		It was just like, it jacked me up.
		I didn't expect that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can't think of another fighter that meant more, like in terms of a cultural icon.
		Can't think of another one.
		Yeah, and put his life on the line and just was so you know and a cautionary tale to fighters too about the end about fighting too long.
		Look, no one ever forgave Larry Holmes for beating him up.
		Larry Holmes, one of the greatest heavyweight champions of all time, never got his just due because people never forgave him for beating up Ali.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, honestly, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which is crazy.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's not fair.
		Didn't make any sense.
		I mean, Muhammad Ali was trying to beat him up, but you know, everybody knew, even though Ali was fighting, everybody knew it was over.
		He wasn't the Muhammad Ali of old.
unidentified		Yeah, and then he wanted to call it into the fight, man.
		Like, Holmes was like, why am I doing this?
		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, that was sad.
		Yeah.
		And he wasn't, Holmes was never that much of a likable presence.
		It's hard to come behind Muhammad Ali.
		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was never that kind of a personality.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		But damn, did he have a jab?
		That's the best jab around.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Woo, Larry Holmes.
		Even when he fought Tyson, he was popping him with that jab.
		And it made you wonder, God, I wonder what Larry would have done in his prime.
		This would have been an exciting fight to see in his prime.
unidentified		No, the two of them?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I still don't think he would have been able to beat Prime Tyson.
		No.
		But it was wild to see.
unidentified		Tyson made his bones on fighting bigger guys and making them miss and pay for it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So he'd load up on his legs.
		And a lot of times when he's landing, he's in the air.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		He's in the air, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was the speed, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Middleweight, speed in a heavyweight body.
unidentified		He's the fastest.
		Well, he was one of the fastest heavyweights.
		I think there's one guy after Usik's pretty damn fast.
		Oh, Usik's nice.
		Yeah.
		Oh, man.
		Talk about a person.
		He's funny.
		That's a funny dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's a character.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he wanted to talk about technique, too.
		And another guy was trained by the same guy as Lomachenko.
		Lomachenko's father trained Usik.
unidentified		Oh, cool, cool.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which is also why he's like a heavyweight Usik.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Or a heavyweight Lomachenko.
unidentified		Lomachenko, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's got that footwork and movement and that Russian style, that you know, Ukrainian Russian style.
		It's like those guys, they figured out movement and footwork.
		Bival has it, you know.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a no, look, we're very fortunate that we can see all of these incredible human beings that have risked their life and their health and put it on the line so we could see true lessons about character and technique.
unidentified		Yeah, I just wish heavyweights would concentrate on technique a little bit more.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we're well, maybe Usik's changing people's perspective on that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they're realizing, like, wow, you can't just one-two everybody.
unidentified		Yeah, I think what happened, and there's another thing in this country, it's like people, I think, they're not following boxing.
		They're not getting the boxing.
		A lot of these guys are going for the money.
		They'll try to play football or whatever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, since Deontay, we haven't really had a heavyweight boxing champion in America.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Deontay was our last heavyweight boxing champion.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		And talk about technique is not the best.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, he had what Teddy Atlas likes to call the eraser.
unidentified		Right, yeah, true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He can make all the mistakes of the world.
		He had that one eraser.
		Blam.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Deontay's one of the craziest knockout punchers that's ever existed.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was nuts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He just hit you moving backwards flatline.
unidentified		Weighed like 212?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		209 when he fought Tyson Fury the first time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		209.
unidentified		Yeah.
		He and I went shooting before.
		Like we've done some tactical stuff together.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really nice guy.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I love talking to him on the podcast.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		He's he's he's great.
		I don't know.
		I don't know.
		It's like just work on this technique, man.
		It's like, geez, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's too late.
unidentified		It's what you do for a living.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think he relied on that gift for so long.
		Because, I mean, look at the gift, though.
		I mean, at one point in time, he was like 39 knockouts out of 40 fights.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		But it's like he's.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Nuts.
		But it didn't matter when it landed.
		When it landed, you couldn't do shit about all that sloppiness.
unidentified		I still wouldn't mind seeing AJ versus him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I still wouldn't mind either.
unidentified		That'd be interesting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think after the car accident, AJ might be done, though, because he was knocked unconscious in that car accident.
		I heard really bad.
		I heard he was out for like 10 minutes.
unidentified		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And his two friends died.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, I mean, after all his fights, and that is the last thing he needed is some extracurricular brain damage like that.
unidentified		True, true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then also losing his two great friends like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's got to be, you know, that's just fucking crazy.
unidentified		Yeah.
		That's a sad thing, but I think if he's my brother or my cousin, I'd be like, you got to go through this.
		You can't, you know, you got to, for their sake.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		What would your friends want you to do?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, we'll see.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		I was hoping the best one because he's another one of our warriors, man.
		He puts his body and life on the line for us, man.
Stimulation Hope 00:05:46
unidentified		That's our modern-day gladiator, you know?
unidentified		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's nothing like a fight.
		It's different than any kind of sporting event.
		It's very different.
		And the losses are way different.
		They're way harder to deal with.
		And the victories are way greater.
unidentified		Yeah, you know, one of my best friends being Frankie, man.
		Like, so I got a front seat to all of that.
		You know, Frankie knocked out Roy Jones back in the amateurs.
		And, you know, I wanted to see him get his due.
		I mean, he was WBA super middleweight champ for five years straight.
		But it was a front seat to the boxing life and the fighting life.
		It's a hard world.
		Yeah, it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a hard world in the end is not pretty, and there's no one there for you.
		In the end, a lot.
		I was watching this piece on Bobby Chacone, who was a great fighter in the 80s.
		And oh my God, in the end, it was horrible.
		It's just horrible watching just the deterioration and the brain damage and no one there for you.
		And that's a lot of guys.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		And if you, I mean, your brain, you know, it doesn't regenerate.
		And I didn't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, it only gets worse.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And if you're experiencing brain damage now, I mean, without treatment, there's some treatments now that they're able to use to help regenerate some neural tissue.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But there's a certain amount you never come back from.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		I know my son, one of my sons is, I mean, he's been going through, what do they call it?
		This is like a stimulation thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's the magnetic stuff.
unidentified		Yeah, it's, man, I forget.
		But he's actually, it's actually helped him out a great deal.
		I mean, he kind of went kind of an interesting route, like, kind of experimented with some stuff before.
		But now he's kind of come back.
		It's turned him around.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What happened?
unidentified		Yeah, he kind of was like, you know, getting high, doing it, kind of went that route for a minute.
		But it's, but he's gotten, I've just actually seen things turn around with this, I don't know why I can't remember, but it's this brain stimulation thing, and it kind of rewires you.
		You know?
		You know, I think I heard you talk about the NED and those type of things.
		So, yeah, there's things that are going.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There are things that can help, but you've got to be very vigilant about it.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, so I've been connected to a lot of the anti-aging type of stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We're getting fascinating.
unidentified		Yeah, it's fascinating.
		A good friend of mine, Bob Goldman.
		I don't know if you know Dr. Bob Goldman is.
		No.
		Yeah, he should have him on your show.
		He's an interesting guy.
		He runs A4M.
		I don't know if you ever heard.
		It's this conglomerate of doctors all around the world that's dedicated to fixing causes of diseases, not just chasing around the symptoms and stuff.
		And so it's like very much in the face of the pharmaceutical companies, they are really dedicated to taking care of things from the source.
		And it's been going on for a while, man.
		It's like they have about six of these things a year.
		The biggest one is in Vegas.
		But you look it up, A4M.
		Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, he's been dealing with them.
		I've actually tried to, I've hooked Nick Diaz up with him to help him.
		Because they're on the forefront of the new medicine type stuff.
		So, yeah, it's an interesting thing.
		A4M, they have a lot of doctors who will be giving lectures on all the most innovative stuff.
		And they have all the newest equipment that's just like the biggest kind of, I don't know, like rooms, huge rooms full of all the most collaborating.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a good time to be an older person.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of science behind it.
unidentified		They have the belief that you should be in your, you know, living to 100, but healthily.
		Yeah.
		They really believe that.
		And I, you know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If it's ever been possible, now's the time.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think so, too.
unidentified		Yeah.
		My doctor, Dr. Alabezos, my doctor's 63.
		He looks like a freaking superhero.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's awesome.
unidentified		Yeah, you look at that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		63-year-old guys when we were kids were basically dead.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They were just old men, frail, feeble.
unidentified		Yeah, it's interesting, man.
		It's like, and yeah, we're getting older.
		Knockwood, man.
		I've been very fortunate.
		I've been very lucky.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, me too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This is a good time to be an older person.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Man, you look good, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, you too.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		I think I'm a little older than you, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How old are you?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm 58.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		I'm a little older than you.
		Okay.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you look great.
unidentified		Oh, thank you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You look great then if you're older than me.
unidentified		I feel good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I feel very good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a really good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's so much information now on how to maintain your body and how to maintain your health.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're older.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, hey, brother, it's been great.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad we got together.
unidentified		Me too.
		Me too, man.
		Again, man, I got to tell you, man, how proud I am.
		Joe from the gym is doing his thing, man, in a big way.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I feel the same about you.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Well, thank you, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This is a lot of fun.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
unidentified		Thanks for having me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We'll do it again sometime.
unidentified		Yeah, we got to.
unidentified		All right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All right, bro.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		All right.

Chapters

00:00:01 Lights Out, Earthquake Shakes
00:07:32 Growing Up Alone
00:10:16 Would Train With Sugar Ray
00:17:01 Threat Locker Tactics
00:19:40 Footwork Matters
00:35:16 Sparring with Champions
00:45:59 Playing Mike Tyson Armor
00:50:29 Downplaying It All
00:57:20 Wesley's Surprising Arrival
01:02:57 Directing Special Effects
01:17:38 Black Dynamite Set Visit
01:24:37 Wick's Tactical Training
01:36:38 Renaissance Fighter
01:41:38 Yuki Yoza's Calf Kick Dominance
01:56:52 Kyokushin's Russian Punch
02:01:17 Gifted vs. Hard Work
02:11:32 Unlikely Champion
02:26:54 Muhammad Ali's Shadow Boxing
02:41:19 Stimulation Hope