Michael P. Masters and Joe Rogan explore UFOs as potential time machines from humanity’s future, citing Frank Tipler’s 1970s relativity theories and Jim Penniston’s Rendlesham Forest claims of beings facing genetic reproduction issues. Masters’ 2022 "mini abduction" at a UFO conference—telepathic communication, implanted data, and distress—mirrors historical cases like the Hills’ 1961 encounter. Radar anomalies near military bases (Nimitz, Roosevelt) and patents for plasma-based propulsion suggest reverse-engineered tech from advanced civilizations, possibly ultraterrestrial or crypto-terrestrial. Masters warns of misinformation but insists disclosure could unite science, while Rogan questions humanity’s readiness to handle zero-point energy breakthroughs, hinting at a cosmic observer’s indifference to our conflicts. [Automatically generated summary]
think so i don't think i mean the whole idea is that they're just sort of normalizing it right Neuro-linguistic programming, they call it, where you're slowly getting people accustomed to these ideas.
Like the aspects of close encounters, for instance, where you have the radiation burns on the guy's face, you have a time travel component where these World War II soldiers get out of the craft with the little beans and the bigger being.
And I mean, just seeding our culture with those little bits of information that might help later on down the bus.
There's a lot of elements of disclosure in that, too.
Like, I think there's just, I don't know.
I mean, obviously we don't know who's pulling the strings.
We don't know what's going on.
We don't know who's in charge.
But it does make sense that if there is this thing that they know about that we're supposed to know about, leak it out, do it slowly, get in our culture, get it in our media in different ways.
You know the Hal putoff story, right, with George Bush?
Do you know the story where they were talking about, okay, Hal talked about it on my podcast, but he also talked about it in the Age of Disclosure documentary where they brought in him and a bunch of different prominent thinkers.
So to people that don't know, I'll just explain it.
So they brought in him and a bunch of other prominent thinkers and they had, they sat them down and said, essentially, we have recovered crashed UFOs.
We have biological remains of these creatures.
We are considering releasing it to the public and we want to make an assessment of what are the pros and what are the cons.
So we want to assign a numerical value that you're estimating what kind of an impact it would be on government, finances, religion, et cetera.
Well, whether they should do it, basically whether or not they should release this information.
And all of the people that were brought in came to the agreement that there was more con than there were pro, and that formed their decision to not release it.
One of the things that happened after September 11th was it was a horrible tragedy, but there was a beautiful result temporarily where everybody was really united, like really united.
Like there was American flags and everybody's car in Los Angeles.
You know, like the most ridiculous, progressive, sort of kind of, you know, kind of fucked up place.
But everybody became patriotic.
And in New York, everyone was friendly.
I mean, people were smiling and saying hi to each other on the streets.
We had all decided that we were together and that we were faced with a real threat and that we had to be united.
And not to get too weird too fast here, but if there are aspects of sort of an all-encompassing consciousness that unites us associated with the UFO phenomenon too, if we recognize that we are just fingerprints on the same hand, we're all iterations of the same overarching consciousness, if seemingly there is a part of that in the UFO phenomenon.
Yeah, I'm going to have to watch that as a counterpoint, if anything else, because it makes sense to me that if everyone's kind of united as one super organism of sorts, but you lose all individuality.
Yeah, so a lot of times on islands, you get like really strange characteristics of people because of the isolation.
And those characteristics get selected just through genetic drift alone because it's a small population.
So just probably one person had this really weird trait where they're insensitive to dihydrotestosterone and then it spread throughout more of the population.
It doesn't do anything.
It's not something natural selection would select against.
I mean, historically, prehistorically, evolutionarily, I should say, if you did have something like that and you were a hunter-gatherer, you're kind of boned.
You know, you're not going to be able to run after gazelles.
Because what it's saying is that their bones are fused.
If you scroll up, it'll say the condition affecting ostrich-footed tribe, a genetic mutation passed down through generations causes the bones in the feet to fuse, resulting in a claw-like structure with two large toes.
But no, the main thing is that I've become known for advocating for this idea that UFOs and the aliens are actually our time-traveling future human descendants.
I wouldn't even say as opposed to extraterrestrials because I do think that's a component too.
I oftentimes get pigeonholed.
People are like, oh, you just think they're all time travelers.
I don't.
I actually say this all the time, but it doesn't matter.
I do think there's a lot going on.
But my background, and the reason I approach this question this way is because there's a lot of characteristics of these aliens that look so hominin.
They look just like us.
And specifically what we'd expect to see in our hominin future if the same evolutionary trends continue into the future.
So I kind of just tie those things together.
And even the saucer-shaped craft seemingly are time machines themselves.
And the concept of just if you just think about ancient man, I was watching this documentary on Neanderthals last night about this one intact Neanderthal skeleton that they found that was, it had sort of been, he had died in a cave and, you know, the stalact mites, his stalactites were mites.
We came in and something happened where we replaced them.
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The point is, as time goes on, humans today are probably the most feeble version of humans that have ever existed.
Oh, for sure, yeah.
And we're the most feeble versions of people that have existed within the last century, right?
Like, if you go back to humans from the 1920s versus humans from the 2020s, people have way less testosterone now, way higher instances of miscarriages, way lower sperm count.
You know, there's a lot of factors that are at play right now that are changing what a human is.
And if you extrapolate, if you look at the future, you would naturally say, well, we're probably going to be very thin.
It seems like there's at least some sort of a push to eliminate gender.
Like gender seems like it's on the table, is whether or not it's even necessary.
There's all sorts of new technological innovations that are leading to the possibility, at least sometime in the future, of an artificial womb.
There's genetic engineering with CRISPR and a lot of other different technologies that are being explored that we might be able to engineer human beings and then even create a complete individual human being without a mother, without a father.
So if you thought about what that looks like in the future, look, one of our problems on this planet is we all have different ideologies, different religions, come from different parts of the world.
We look different.
And human beings, as tribal primates, have a tendency to other.
But if everybody's exactly the same and we share one mind, you know, then a lot of our problems go away.
If we no longer have to compete for resources, we no longer have the desire to procreate and to acquire land and to be, you know, to have a territory, we eliminate a lot of our issues.
And that's what these things look like.
When you look at the archetypal, these iconic sort of shapes that have been on cave walls all the way up to close encounters with the third kind.
One thing they share is that they have no muscle, they have large heads, they have big eyes.
Yeah, you just tied together like a lot of really important points related to this theory: aspects of why they're always interested in our gametes.
Why they come back and put that little machine on a man to collect semen, why they're constantly taking eggs from females and planting fetuses, pulling them back out later.
Like they're clearly focused on reproduction, gamete extraction.
And one of the things that might be fueling that in the future, if these are future humans, let's just assume for a second, hypothetically, is that they might be having problems directly resulting from these trends toward self-domestication, these trends toward feminization, these trends toward reduced sperm counts, which is 60% across most populations of the world, the industrialized world, 50% across the entire world.
Yeah, problems with reproduction, in vitro fertilization, exogenesis chambers might help solve some of those problems, growing the fetus outside of the body.
So yeah, and like you said, you know, what do they look like?
They look like kind of a hybrid between males and females to some extent, but there's still an essence of gender.
Like if you talk to Whitley Streeber, you know, he's with this being, he says in communion that I had a sense that she was a woman.
I don't know why.
But I kind of sensed that.
So it's almost like the essence of the individual, the soul of the individual, still retains that sort of gender identity, even though our bodies are becoming more childlike, more gender indiscriminate.
I don't know.
But yeah, yet another one of those ways in which we might sort of grow together as a species.
You know, unfortunately, for any sort of spectacular public thing that's in the zeitgeist, like alien abduction, whether it's Whitley Streeber from Communion or the John Mack books, the guy from Harvard that wrote, what was it, Abduction?
And I mean, they aren't human, but they're very human too.
So for instance, like that's one of the main reasons I started exploring this.
I was actually kind of put into this when I was eight or nine years old, sort of activated in a way and put on this path by a weird thing that happened to me.
What happened to you?
Well, so I talk about it in my first two books, Identified Flying Objects and the Extra-Tempestrial Model, where I learned about a close encounter that my dad had.
He was a veterinarian in Northeast Ohio where I grew up.
And he was out one night on a call with another guy.
So there's two people.
As far as Jalen Hynek's reliability scale has more reliability because there's multiple witnesses.
It's also strange on his scale because they crested the hill.
There's a bright light.
This is an Amish country.
There's no lights in Amish country.
And all of a sudden, this bright light darts toward them, hovers just above their truck, darts back to where it was, and then straight up into space, like at incredible speed.
So this happened before I was born, but I overheard him telling a story to some friends one night.
He got Whitley Streeber's book, Communion, as most people did in the 1980s, and as they should, because it's a great book.
And I walked into the living room.
The book is sitting on a shelf facing out.
And I remember, like, it was yesterday.
I sort of stopped, and there was like this light, like a white light.
And then I saw this image in my mind of like an early hominin chimpanzee-like creature, a modern human, and then that archetypal gray alien from the cover with this information.
What if they're related?
What if they are us from the future?
And obviously, I mean, that's why I became a biological anthropologist.
And that was your question is how do I differentiate among these different cases?
I do draw from Heynek's in his book, The UFO Experience, he lists out how we all should approach this based on the reliability scale and the strangeness scale.
Jacques Valley also drew from that, helped him develop it as part of the Invisible College and all of his work.
But regardless of my own personal discernment, because my second book, The Extra Tempestrio Model, is about 30 case studies, 15 main case studies, but then I pull in other ones.
And it explores the different theories.
Obviously, the main one being this extra tempestrial idea, this future, which, by the way, I saw the word of the day today was anachronistic.
And I was like, man, that would have been a way better word than extra tempestrio, which everybody struggles with.
Anyway, but so one of the most commonly reported things across all cases, regardless of whether you think it's bullshit or you think this definitely happened, is they really want our sperm.
They really need or want our reproductive material, our gametes.
And it's funny because when I wrote my first book in 20, I started in 2012, published it in 2019, right at the end, I did an interview, and somebody's like, have you heard of Jim Penniston?
I'm like, no, which is kind of a failing on my behalf.
I'll admit that one.
It turns out, so it was the Rendlesham Forrest incident.
He touched this craft.
He got this binary code.
And he, when deciphering the binary code, they legitimately specifically said, we are you from the future.
We're having problems with reproduction.
He underwent hypnotic regression.
We're having problems with reproduction and we need this genetic material to help ourselves.
A lot of people are like, well, why are they coming back and doing stuff to us?
I think they're coming back and getting stuff from us because of problems they're having, largely related to what you were talking about earlier with the reduced sperm counts, the problems with female infertility.
What if we do try to create the perfect human specimen or we try to cure these genetic diseases through genetic manipulation, CRISPR, and we screw something up?
We might have to come back.
We can't go to another planet.
There aren't people on these planets.
We can't go and sample gametes from these other places.
We might have to go into our past to get those wild-type, unmanipulated gametes in order to fix these problems.
God, that's a crazy level of technological sophistication, the ability to venture back in time and somehow or another not fuck up the timeline that's leading to, I mean, this is the problem that's always been theorized about time travel.
Anything that you do, if you went back in time, any interactions, you would completely change how the future would play out.
But what most physicists don't agree on many things, but most agree that we live in what's called a block universe, landscape time, block time, where if you imagine all moments from the very beginning of the Big Bang to the end of the universe, where all matter appears into like a black hole or contracts or whatever it does, all moments are already there.
They exist as this massive four-dimensional block of all moments, all whirlmons, everything.
So you go back into the past as you perceive it.
You can do whatever you want.
You can walk around, step on butterflies, slap people on the face, kick over dinosaurs or whatever.
I don't think we can go back that far, but you could do anything you want, and it doesn't change anything because you're going back in the block universe and doing those things you were always already going to do.
And when you get home, everything's the same because that was already their past.
To everybody that stayed behind, that was already their past.
It was only the future for you to go back and do those things that you were already going to do.
And then you just went and did them, get home, everything's the same because you were always going to do those things in the first place.
I shouldn't say they all agree because there is the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics where if you went back in that situation, it would be change.
You would be changing the timeline.
Would it be changing your timeline or would it be changing a different timeline is the question.
And how would you know?
There's more paradoxes with changing things than not changing things.
One, I think they need tremendously high speed in order to be able to go back into the past.
So basically, again, working from all I can work from in this time with the limited primitive primate knowledge that I have in the year 2012 to 2025, I basically just started with Einstein's theory of relativity, which he published in 1905 on the electrodynamics of moving bodies.
And then in 1915, he published his paper on general relativity.
From that point on, almost instantly, there were solutions to his field equations that showed with the right parameters of a massively highly energetic rotating ring or sphere or disk that you could create closed time-like curves, that you could actually orient light cones back toward the past so you can physically go into the past.
We saw this with Lens and Thuring in like 1917 and 18.
So anyway, you know, if you look at the history of how we understand backward time travel, what I think they're doing is that I think they're combining general relativity and special relativity.
So I think they're orienting the light cones toward the past by rotating these things really, really fast.
You hear that all the time.
They power up, they're spinning, or at least there's some sort of flywheel on the outside that's spinning.
I think that's what's allowing them to move toward the past, and then they take off.
So it's that high speed that I think allows them to go further into the past.
So they're using, you're aware of the twins paradox, I'm sure.
Time delation, where you have two twins, they're the same age, and then one goes into a spaceship, they move at tremendously high speed, they come back, and they're much younger than their twin because time moved faster back on Earth.
I think they're using that high-speed motion while light cones are oriented toward the past in order to travel deeper into the past through that process of time dilation.
There are limits to how fast we can go.
Einstein was very adamant about this because there's an increase in inertial forces the faster you go relative to the speed of light.
That's why he thought we could never go.
That's why he thought that anything with mass could never go faster than the speed of light.
Light can do it because it's a wave or a particle or both.
So I think there's a limit to how fast we can go.
The other reason is because Jim Penniston in this hypnotic regression said that.
He's like, we can only go 40 to 60,000 years into the past or we might not get back.
You also have, and this is a more speculative one, so take it for what it's worth.
You also have the Dan Burrish testimony of this J-rod, this allegedly captured alien, who said, we're from the future.
We are you from the future, and we're from about 55 to 60,000 years in your future.
So those three things together are why I don't think we could go back 65 million years to hunt dinosaurs, which actually would be kind of fun.
When you're talking about going the speed of light, you're talking about not traditional propulsion, but some form of propulsion that allows you to go at insane speeds.
There's this really cool thing at the end where Hal Putoff and I think Eric Davis as well, we're talking about this space-time bubble, right?
A really weird thing happened.
We can get to that in a second.
But I don't want to jump around too much because I'll lose people and myself probably.
But this space-time bubble that they form around the craft, I think, is also indicative of the fact that they're manipulating space-time, that they're traveling in and out of time.
They use it to hide in plain sight.
They manipulate the rate at which they move relative to us in their frame of reference.
And they're moving fast all around us.
And they've slowed time down outside of that bubble.
So everything is really, really slow to them.
And they can easily evade our bullets and our missiles.
But we don't see them because we don't have that frame rate of perception.
And if you slow videos down, I'm sure you've seen these all the time, where there's like a, and then you slow it down and you can see this saucer-shaped craft moving slowly across the sky once you slow down the frame rate.
But a really funny thing happened because I've never actually talked about this with anyone before.
I owe a lot of the fact that anybody even knows who I am to Hal Putoff.
He, when I first started talking about this publicly in 2018, and then I published my book in 2019, Identified Flying Objects, he, I guess, reached out to the head of MUFON at the time, who was putting together the 50th anniversary MUFON event, and was like, hey, you should have this Mike Masters guy come talk.
And I found that out from the head of MUFON.
He's like, hey, just so you know, Hal Putoff, of all people, recommended I contact you.
I had no idea who that is.
So I get on the internet and I Google How Putoff.
He also put Jesse Michaels, mutual friend, in touch with me after, I think he did an interview with him and Weinstein.
I guess Hal was like, hey, you should reach out to Mike Masters.
And he did.
And we talked and we've done stuff together.
But what was cool is that at the end of that Age of Disclosure film, when he's talking about the space-time bubble, I thought back to after my first book came out, and I was contacted by someone who claimed to be an ex-intelligence person who explained that exact same thing to me back in 2019, that these things aren't doing 10,000 G maneuvers that would crush anything inside to them.
In their frame of reference, what they feel is completely different than what we see.
Because in that space-time bubble, they can be moving at 50,000 miles an hour, do a right-hand turn, and it would splatter anything inside because of the G-forces.
That's what we see on the outside.
But in that space-time bubble, they probably feel one, two G's at the most.
So I started thinking, man, was that Hal?
Did Hal reach out to me with like a different email address and say, hey, just so you know, this is how these things are happening.
This is how they're able to do it.
And I was a dumbass.
I still am a dumbass.
But I was an extra big dumbass back then.
And I was like, oh, cool.
Thanks, man.
You know, like a story went viral about my books, and Fox News picked it up and space.com.
And so I was going through a bunch of emails.
They recognized I wasn't getting what they were saying.
I was not picking up what they were putting down.
And they were like, no, this is important.
Said it again, and then it clicked.
I was like, oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense.
They're manipulating the rate at which time passes in this bubble around the craft.
So when we're seeing this, we are imagining what we can do.
And we're sort of saying, well, what would be an advanced version of what we can do?
And what this technology is, is something that's levels of magnitude beyond even our theoretical, like any sort of idea that we have currently about, you know, potential future timelines of technology.
And it's all documented in Jeremy Corbel's excellent movie, Bob Lazar, Area 51 and Flying Saucers.
So he goes there and sees this thing, and it's got an American flag sticker on it.
And, you know, they basically say, tell us how it works.
And he's like, oh, this is ours because he sees it has a sticker on it.
And then he realizes this is made out of some completely unknown alloy.
There's no seams in it.
It seems to be 3D printed.
There's no controls inside of it.
It's designed for something that's three feet tall.
It's all very fucking weird.
So he's working on this thing, not making much headway at all.
They understood that there was an element, Element 115, that was not even on the periodic table.
Eventually found to actually be a thing by the Large Hadron Collider.
But even then, they only measured it for a millisecond, right?
So then he's saying that they have this stable version of this element, and you bombard it with radiation, creates this sort of gravity drive.
He's working on this thing, and it's all top secret, so he cannot tell his wife.
So they're calling him up at 10 o'clock, like, hey, get to the airplane, the airport.
We need you.
And so he would have to fly out at random times, fly out to S4, and his wife was like, this motherfucker's having an affair.
Well, I'm going to have an affair, too.
So she starts fucking her flight attendant or a flight instructor.
I think that's what it was.
When you have that kind of clearance, they are monitoring everything.
They're monitoring all your phone calls.
So they've realized that his wife is having an affair, and they think that he will be emotionally unstable, and it's too dangerous to have him working on this insanely top-secret information if he's not stable.
So they tell him, you know, we're going to at least temporarily relieve you of your duties.
So he's freaked out and he tells his friends, like, hey, this is what they're doing there.
They have these things, and they fly them every Wednesday.
I'm going to take you guys.
There's an area we can go watch.
So he takes his friends out there on two separate occasions, I believe.
They get caught.
They get caught, gets arrested.
They release him, and he realizes, like, I'm kind of fucked.
He says they used to fly them, and you could go watch them fly these things.
And they were moving in these really weird ways across the sky that you cannot do with conventional aircraft, that they only sort of understood how to like pick it up and put it down.
Yeah, man, there's a lot of crazy shit that's been going on.
It's been going on for a while.
Jamie and I were talking beforehand about the stovepiping, too, and all the stovepiping?
Yeah, the different ways that they compartmentalize what they're doing.
And they talked about it in Age of Disclosure, too.
That's a big problem because certain people are working on these parts of the craft to reverse engineer them to understand them, but they don't have the whole picture.
Yeah, you can't see the forest through the trees in these situations.
And it's unfortunate.
And the argument they made in this docko is that we're putting ourselves at a disadvantage because other countries have probably retrieved these things too.
And they might be working on it, yes, in secrecy.
But if people are working together and not stovepiping this thing ad infinitum, then they might be able to actually make more progress faster than us.
So part of the disclosure push is to be like, yeah, these things are real.
We have them.
Let's get our best scientists together to work on this holistically instead of compartmentalizing it.
And from people that I know, I mean, starting from when I was a kid, hearing my biological father's account, you know, the way he told it.
And then I interviewed him again in college to try to get more information because I was just over hearing from the stairs and I was supposed to be in bed.
But I've never been one of those people that's like, I need to see it to believe it.
Right.
Because I believe the people who say the same thing over and over.
There's patterns that we can extract from people's testaments who have had these close encounters.
And that's one unfortunate thing that's happening right now is we're talking about the pilots, talking about police.
But people have been seeing these forever, but they did such a good job manufacturing the stigma around it with Project Sign, Project Grudge, Project Blue Book to discount these people, to make them seem insane.
These guys like Ryan Graves and guys like David Favor.
These David Favor's guys that was, you know, he was in a fighter jet, saw this thing move from 50,000 feet above sea level to sea level in less than a second.
Yeah.
And they saw this thing.
There was something under the water below it.
It's like whatever he saw.
And if you ever talked to him, have you ever talked to him?
I kind of wonder if the Tic Tac, because it is somewhat anomalous in the context of a lot of things in the UFO lore as far as spinning discs or big triangular craft.
And why not see what is detectable and what's not?
You know, Ryan Graves talked about how in 2014 they upgraded all the sensors and the jets, and then all of a sudden they started picking these things up all over the place.
He said they were encountering them virtually every time they went out, which is so weird.
Imagine you're encountering, was it a circle inside of a sphere or a sphere inside of a space?
A recent article about the Hill has highlighted the reports of a cube and a sphere UAP military pilots have been seeing as reported by Graves, where he once again highlights how often our pilots are seeing these things and why he doesn't believe they are conventional drones or balloons.
And so this is obviously some sort of a computer-generated rendition.
So a month ago, I did a deep dive in a post about UFO patents, how magneto-hydrodynamic propulsion systems could explain some of the observations, includes an expired patent for the 1960s and a few newer patents describing not only the propulsion, but how the plasma field can make the craft invisible to radar.
Like, if we have been reverse engineering these for 70 years, we would start bringing them out.
They would look weird.
They wouldn't necessarily look like the craft that we struggled to fly at Groom Lake that we could go up and down with, and that's about it.
Like, they would look like this little thing that's simple.
It's basically a propane tank, or it's a cube within a sphere.
I probably had that backwards again.
And then experiment with it, see what you can do.
And a lot of people make the argument, well, why would they do that?
It's dangerous.
You know, what if there was a mid-air collision?
If they are actually manipulating space-time and these things, like they seemingly are with the saucer-shaped craft, you don't have to worry about that.
You know, this isn't a cat and mouse game where the cat and mouse are equal.
Like, you have complete control of space-time in and around that area.
You're not going to run into anybody.
They're all moving extremely slowly relative to you, according to Putoff and Davis at the end of that docko.
And whoever reached out to me, whether it was Hal or not, somebody reached out to me and explained this same thing in 2019.
And it makes a lot of damn sense.
And to kind of extend it into my area of research, if you can manipulate space and time in and around this craft, what's keeping you from using that to travel through time?
The idea that they would be so advanced that they could genetically engineer a body and get to whatever state they are at where they communicate telepathically, but yet they can't solve the problem of old DNA.
Like needing, what do they need?
Genetic diversity?
Like, what is it?
What are they trying to get out of us?
Are they trying to get the source, source material instead of the old stuff or instead of the stuff that they've had forever?
One of the arguments I made in my first and second books is that really since European colonialism starting about 500 years ago, we are all becoming one interbreeding population.
So it used to be that you had different isolated populations and then occasionally there would be gene flow that introduces new genes.
If we all are just one population on this inbred island of Earth, where are you going to get new gene variants?
And then you combine that with the things we just talked about, with the potential for things to go wrong with trying to make designer babies or the trends toward reduced fertility in men and women.
And importantly, the potential that there could be some massive cataclysm that puts us into a huge bottleneck where there just is no genetic diversity at all.
Like if you think about something that happened that wiped out a huge percentage of the population, and there are warnings about this over and over again with experiencers and contactees, they're like, there's some cataclysmic thing coming.
If that were to happen, all of those problems we're already having, all of the trends that are already leading to us having problems with fertility in the future would be hugely exacerbated by a very limited gene pool.
Man, when I first started in all this, I wouldn't touch that one because I had to impose some restrictions on myself so I didn't seem like a crazy person.
You know, back in 2018, I was kind of rolling the dice.
I was really nervous about it.
I went to the chair of my department and was like, hey, just so, you know, in case there's any pushback, I'm publishing this book about whether, you know, UFOs are future humans.
And he looked at me and cocked his head.
It's like, that's our job.
That's what we're supposed to be doing, asking questions like that.
Like, he was all pissed off.
Like, why are you even asking me this or telling me this?
Like, the dean, actually, of my college, who gave me an award for scholarship and researchers, and there's a lot of amazing researchers at Montana Technological University.
Like, we're very well known for research and scholarship.
She gave me an award in 2022 for research and scholarship.
And all I was doing at that point was UFO stuff.
You know, that was kind of a nod too.
But she was telling me the other day in a meeting, because I'm the chair of the department, unfortunately.
And she was like, oh, your dissertation book.
Because I did kind of write my first book as a dissertation.
It's very scientific.
It's very dense.
It's very technical.
But I needed to do that because of the stigma, because of the shame.
And you're right, it is changing, which is great.
But there are certain things that we still can't, that are hard for me to talk about because it starts to get into ancient aliens territory.
And that's one of them.
Are they manipulating us genetically?
Have they been for a long time?
I don't know.
I used to say I don't know so I didn't have to talk about it.
Now I say I don't know because I genuinely don't know.
There's a study done in the 70s looking at polymorphisms and they found that between like what it used to be thought there were races like Africans, Asians, and Europeans.
That was it.
They didn't consider Native Americans or Australians or anybody.
But they did this study on polymorphisms, found that only about six to seven percent of our all of our genetic differences can be accounted for by those between group differences.
And they did the same thing with Y chromosomes.
They did the same thing with craniofacial anatomy and found that we're all very similar.
So despite those differences in height, weight, skin color, hair color, eye color, we're very, very similar, which could again lead to problems related to genetic homogenization, limited gene pool in the future, needing to go back and sample gametes from the past.
Another argument I hear people make related to what you're saying, like an argument for potential genetic manipulation of the human species over time, is that it all happened really fast.
We see this acceleration in our rate of change, the rate of our technological development.
Those things might indicate that there's some sort of seeding in the past with not just technology, but the genetics that allow us to expand our minds and develop these things.
Well, then there's the weird stories from ancient scripts, ancient texts like the Book of Enoch.
Like, what is that all about?
Like, that's some weird stuff where it talks about the watchers coming down from the sky and mating with humans and creating the Nephilim who destroy everything.
Yeah, I might get some shit for this, but I would be willing to bet that all major religions and the little ones have some sort of UFO alien component to the myth and legend that gave rise to them over time.
Actually, the third book I wrote, Revelation, flips the whole script on Revelation, and it interjects time travelers.
It interjects this whole—for a while, there was this question of whether there was a fight over the timeline, whether the greys were coming back because some cataclysm needed to happen and we all went underground.
And that's why we have big eyes and pale skin because we had to evolve underground for a while.
And then another group trying to keep that from happening.
So the book kind of explores that in a fictional capacity.
And I wrote it because my friends weren't reading my science books because they're dense and scientific.
And I was like, man, you know, what if I wrote a book that's just like a crass sex drug-fueled exploration of like this time travel idea?
And that's where that book came from.
It still ties in all of these same concepts scientifically.
But in the story, like the main character is an intertemporal sex researcher.
She goes back in time and just fucks everybody to learn what to learn what sex is.
That's the book I gave you when I got here, actually.
And they're like, and then her, the professor in this book, he's like the, he's an intertemporal drug kingpin of sorts.
But it's like, it's exploring these same ideas in a different way, you know, with fiction, it's satire, it's comedy.
The word most commonly used is it's hilarious.
It's a comedy book.
You know, because I wanted people that don't read the science books to still be introduced to this concept and the science behind it in a different way.
And man, it was so much more fun to write than those science books.
You guys pulled it up on your screen and you're like, man, these Harvard researchers must have snuck in where they're doing the psilocybin experiments and ate all the mushrooms.
That cracked me up.
And I don't think we did.
I don't remember if we did.
I don't think we did.
But it definitely had elements of like, these guys ate a lot of mushrooms, which was part of why it went viral.
But there were some really solid arguments in there.
And the title of the paper was Scientific Openness to the Crypto-Terrestrial Idea.
That's all we were advocating for.
And we listed four main ways in which this crypto-terrestrial idea could happen.
And the fourth one is what really got clickbaity because we were like, maybe there is a breakaway civilization.
That's the crypto-terrestrial idea.
But maybe an advanced reptile dinosaurs didn't go extinct.
And this was, you know, we don't think this actually happened, but we're just putting out arguments for what this idea could be.
And so, yeah, they took that and put like dinosaurs at keyboards and stuff like that.
But one of them is time travelers.
And it would make sense if you were in the future, instead of jumping back through time in order to study people in a specific time, you set up a base on the far side of the moon, where up until the 60s, 70s, we wouldn't know they were there.
Set up a base under the oceans.
And this would go for the extraterrestrial idea, too.
Instead of traversing the vast swaths of space, come here, set up under the oceans where we're not going to find you, Antarctica, far side of the moon.
And then you can do everything here locally instead of having to jump across space, extraterrestrial, or jump across time, extra-tempestrium.
Well, it also explains some of the very strange ways that they've observed crafts moving under the water.
Like they've observed crafts moving under the water at 500 knots that are as big as a football field.
And apparently there's video of these things.
Apparently there's the TV has something that they filmed that is as big as a football field that was going essentially 500 miles an hour underwater without any ripples, not disturbing the water at all, not creating a wake.
Well, you know, when you think about how little exploration we've done to the bottom of the ocean, we know more about the moon than we do about the surface of the actual bottom of the ocean.
And again, you know, the ability to move in and out of air, water, space, upper atmosphere with no disturbances, the transmedium capabilities, that whole warped space-time bubble around them would help explain that too, that they're not experiencing the water.
They're not experiencing the air as they move between them.
Like, I always think about, I really love skiing.
And one of my favorite times to ski is late season.
You know, it's April, the sun's out, everybody's in t-shirts or bikinis or whatever.
I don't wear bikinis, but people do.
And you get into that slushy stuff.
You're cruising down the mountain, you hit the slush, and you just go pass over kettle, you know, over the top of your skis.
And that's what, you know, we would expect if they're moving in and out of air and water and space is that there would be some resistance.
There's not.
You know, they don't have that.
And it does indicate that there is some sort of manipulation of space and time around them.
And yeah, moving underwater, these football field-sized craft going that fast.
I mean, how can you do that if there is actual resistance from the water?
I mean, he was just casually mentioning that there's five different locations in the ocean of the world, in the seas of the world, where they've observed crafts coming out of.
That's a very weird thing to just say while you're walking.
Like, what do they actually know about what's going on in the ocean?
Like, if there are bases somewhere down in the ocean, there's that weird one, the Baltic Sea anomaly.
I don't know.
Jesse Michaels just did a show about it where he interviewed the guy who found it.
I think they're treasure divers, and they found this very strange thing that is sitting on the floor of the ocean, and it has right angles to it, and it's kind of curved.
There's an actual, I don't know what kind of an image is of it, but they have explored this thing, and he's convinced that it's not a natural formation.
Is that an ancient structure that people built 20,000 years ago?
Like, what is it?
Baltic Sea Anomaly is a sonar-detected seafloor formation in the northern Baltic Sea found in 2011 by Swedish Ocean X, formerly Ocean Explorer team, during a treasure hunting expedition.
Most geologists who have examined the available data consider it a natural rock formation shaped by glacial processes, despite ongoing popular speculation about UFOs or artificial origin.
And he was showing images of, I think, what you're talking about, where there was like this sort of almost like a cliff underwater and then had some strange things around it.
Like it had been modified.
I don't remember exactly what he was saying, but I think that's what you're talking about.
No, I mean, again, when I started out in this, I was relatively conservative with my views on things.
But man, the further you go down this rabbit hole, just the weirder shit gets, and you can't do that anymore.
You've got to recognize that there's a lot of things that just you can't write off.
You know, the impossible become possible, or at least you have to open your mind to the fact that these things you used to think were impossible need a second look.
And then there's also the people that work in military intelligence that work with these defense contractors that say there's black operations, like operations that are completely top secret that are 30 years ahead of anything that you can imagine right now.
It definitely feels that the general public is a lot more open to the concept without being thought of as a fool.
It used to be when I was a kid, if you'd bring up UFOs, people just roll their eyes, especially before the internet.
Oh, my God.
If you brought up any of that stuff, they would laugh at you.
I was reading some book on Roswell once, like, I think it was in the 1990s.
And, you know, this guy's like, what the fuck are you wasting your time on this complete horseshit for?
There's no such thing as UFOs.
I'm like, how do you say that with such confidence?
We live in a galaxy with hundreds of billions of stars just in this galaxy, with hundreds of billions of stars in other galaxies, and there's hundreds of billions of other galaxies.
I mean, if people were going to accept something as 100% truth without any investigation or any skepticism from the pharmaceutical drug industry, they are the most evil motherfuckers that have ever lived.
They are responsible for more death from releasing drugs that have horrible adverse side effects that they knew about.
They have taken the largest criminal fines of any companies.
I mean what they've done is really fucking creepy when you look at how they release drugs that they knew were going to fuck people over and they knew those people didn't need those drugs.
And yet when you put people in a scary situation and you make them terrified and you offer up a solution, they believe wholeheartedly that the pharmaceutical drug companies were only telling the truth and anybody who didn't believe.
So it's like that sheep mentality is so strong with so many people.
There are so many cowards in the world and so many followers that would just step in line the moment things get weird, whenever they get challenged, the moment things get weird, that it just makes sense that if you make it like socially, you become a social pariah if you start talking about UFO.
And so the fourth time I went, I was like, all right, but I'm only doing it if you guys actually, you know, and one of the episodes was about this whole theory anyway.
So it made sense.
But I forget what we're talking about.
Oh, the stigma.
So one of the cool things that's been happening, largely because of Ancient your show, you know, you talk about this a lot and it helps normalize it for a lot of people, is that there's a safe space now, you know?
Like where you'll be talking about these things and somebody will come up who had a sighting when they were, you know, a teenager or in their 40s or whatever, and they never told anybody.
And now it's like, wait, it's safe to talk about this?
And that's so cool to see, man.
And then it makes me realize just how many people have had an experience.
It's been bottled up inside.
It's liberating to let that come out.
And we're sharing information and contactees too.
You know, unfortunately, I started saying earlier, we're still kind of stuck on, this is changing too, but we're still largely stuck on the cockpit videos and the FLIR and the gimbal and the GoFast.
But people have been taken into these craft.
They've had stuff put on their junk and their semen take it.
Like there's a lot of no-no square touching that happens, anal probes, you know.
And we used to laugh at that, but that is such a common theme throughout these.
And we need to recognize that these people are having real experiences and have been having them for a very long time.
Let's move on.
Let's talk to these people.
Let's let the contactees and experiencers who have had the closest form of a close encounter you can have, let's trust them now.
Let's listen to what they have to say.
Let's be discerning, you know, but let's keep an open mind.
Well, I think one of the more interesting things when you start talking about stories and encounters, one of the more interesting things is some of the research that Jacques Valley has done where he brings up stories that absolutely predate the modern cultural visions of UFOs.
Like the modern cultural concept of the close encounter of the third kind type grays that come down in a flying saucer.
All those things.
Like flying saucer didn't even come out until the Kenneth Arnold experiences.
But there are many aspects of Jesus' life, big fan of Jesus, by the way, that are very paranormal.
A lot of these seemingly miraculous things, I think, can be explained with a lot of the same technologies that we see today.
We just didn't have a way of conceptualizing them.
Obviously, Ezekiel is the one that gets talked about a lot.
The wheel within a wheel, the telepathy, the embers, burning embers.
Yeah.
Yeah, and then you look at the Nephilim, like, and all kinds of different Mbaba Wana Veresa, this story from Zulu lore, it's a fucking alien abduction, man.
And they've been telling this story for thousands of years.
So it's this woman, the sky goddess, who chooses a man to mate with and comes down, tests him to make sure that he knows that it's her, appears in his dreams, communicates telepathically, gets him ready for this interaction.
He's in love with her, never met her before.
She comes down from the sky and takes him up with her on this rainbow of light.
Like all of those, like, and I made the case in my second book that if Antonio V.S. Boas had been able to go back with the woman that he had sex with, it's basically the same story.
So this Brazilian lawyer is telling a story that's identical to the Zulu legend that's been told for centuries, millennia.
It's easy to get people to comply like that, especially when they're dependent upon, you know, whether it's a corporate entity like CNN or whether it's the New York Times or whatever it is.
Because other people that maybe don't have great critical thinking skills or discernment because they're a 90-year-old grandma that doesn't know how to use a computer, she sees that, oh, it's cute.
Like The overall level of intelligent discourse that a society puts out.
You know, if you have a town square, which is like Twitter is our town square, right?
If that town square is populated by fake people, like enormous percentage populated by fake people that are just designed to say the most inflammatory, ridiculous things to get interaction and engagement and also to erode people's faith in other people and to make us argue with each other.
My hope is that eventually there'll be some way to accurately discern and it'll stop that stuff from happening.
You know, that you'll be able to tell like very clearly whether or not it's an actual person.
The problem is that if that does happen, it's a gateway to digital ID because you would have to lose your anonymity.
Anonymity is very important for whistleblowers.
Like say if you work for a corporation, you find out that corporation is dumping stuff into a river and it's all secret and it's illegal and you know that if you tell they're going to kill you, you know, and you're an executive at that corporation, your conscience is troubled.
You can make a fake account.
You could sign up through a VPN.
You can make a fake account and you could post all this information that you know and you could break a story and you don't face any consequences.
You don't get killed.
If you have digital ID, if we know who everybody is that's posting something and you make that same post, who knows what they do to you?
When I was living in LA when I first moved there, a guy had killed himself accidentally on a set because he took a gun that was a blank gun and he shot himself in the head, like trying to be funny.
And it killed him because the force that comes out of the gun is still extremely powerful.
And he put it to his temple and he literally caved his skull in.
But I guess you could shoot yourself in the head once and just really fuck it up, but be aware that you're still alive and be committed to doing it and then shoot yourself a second time.
But our point, what we're getting at is that for the longest time, there was no real outlet to get true information out other than books.
And books are so easily maligned.
You know, if someone has a cookie book, you read it and you go, oh, that guy's nuts.
That is a conspiracy theory.
And then, of course, that term is popularized during the JFK assassination because that very reason there was a lot of people that doubted the official story, and those people became conspiracy theorists.
They say Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone or Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't involved and he was a Patsy.
Lee Harvey Oswald shot a cop.
There's like very few people that disagree on that.
I think it's Officer Tippett, I think that was his name, when he was on the run.
So Lee Harvey Oswald absolutely seems to be some sort of an intelligence asset in some way or another.
Married a Russian woman, lived in Russia for a while, came back to the United States during the time of the whole, I mean, this is right after the Red Scare.
The fact that this guy went to Russia, married a Russian woman, came back, and the whole thing, screw it.
One of the best ways to make a conspiracy theory seem absolutely ridiculous is to add a bunch of really silly ones into the mix.
And so that any conspiracy theory involving something that's not the official narrative.
But there's just so many aspects of the Kennedy assassination.
The back and to the left, the headshot, the shot in the neck from the front, the magic bullet, which is preposterous.
It's the most preposterous.
There's a lot of them.
There's a lot of these weird aspects to it.
And there's also the fact that Kenny was very hated.
Also, the fact that, you know, it's in Dealey Plaza, which is like, why would you ever drive someone through there in a convertible that's the president?
That's a very, you know, any president is, you know, we think of JFK was the most loved president, right, by half the country.
That's how it always is, folks.
There's always half the country that thinks you suck and half the country that loves you.
Nixon arranged for him to visit Homestead Air Force Base in Florida.
Upon his arrival, armed guards took Gleason to a building at a remote location on the site.
There, Gleason, who harbored an intense interest in UFO, saw the embalmed bodies of four alien beings, two feet long with small bald heads and big ears.
He was told nothing about the circumstances of the recovery.
He swore his wife to secrecy, but after the divorce, Beverly freely discussed the story.
In the mid-80s, UFO UFologist Larry Bryant sued the U.S. government to get it to reveal its UFO secrets.
Well, I mean, if you're friends with Nixon and this is in the 1960s and all this stuff is talking about a fucking dope house, by the way, talking about asking some commander general about what's it right, Pat, and I guess he just cussed him out.
Especially if, I mean, there are certain programs that if you disclose the existence of this program, it is considered treason, and they are allowed to execute you for that.
Then you have to take into consideration the immense amount of money.
And this is discussed really very comprehensively in the Age of Disclosure documentary.
I think they did a great job of highlighting the whole problem with the misappropriation of funds.
So someone had a lie to Congress.
If they have these back engineering programs, if they've been spending as much as a trillion dollars over the course of X amount of years, where's that money and who lied and who benefited from it?
What military contractors were allowed to have this stuff to back engineer it?
What process has taken place to shield the American public from that?
And what profits have they made from that that made them like much more anti-competition against other military contractors?
Like I don't, I don't want to start shitting on NGOs or anything, but that's a big reason why I don't give money to I'll find smaller organizations doing things on a local level, but local stuff you can trust.
And of course, if you're talking trillions of dollars, black money that nobody's tracing.
And I mean, that was one of David Grush's arguments, too, is that these whistleblowers are exposing crimes, you know, fraud, potential murder that happened to keep these secrets.
So, yeah, it's a complex, it's a very nuanced situation that we will have to move past if we are going to have disclosure in some capacity, however that happens.
I mean, amnesty has been talked about for some people.
Unless you have mass amnesty to say, listen, let's just forget about all this stuff.
Then the problem with that is all those people that are profiting off of it right now and also funneling money into whatever NGOs they have and misappropriation of money and embezzlements.
Other than that, I know that it is infinitely times more energetic than what you get when you split an atom or fuse atoms together, the nuclear force.
My understanding, again, very limited knowledge, is that even when you take a molecule, particle, whatever, and you freeze it down to zero degrees, there's still energy inside of that.
And there's energy at a subquantum level that if we could tap into that, it would provide infinite energy.
The downside is it would also make a bomb that is much, much more powerful than the biggest hydrogen bomb because you're releasing that energy in a way that's irresponsible.
There's this quote going around by E.O. Wilson, a famed biologist, on, I think I saw it on Twitter, that was like, we have prehistoric emotions, medieval institutions, and godlike technology.
The people that get picked up are oftentimes, obviously, there's cases where this doesn't happen, but they're cared for.
They're told no harm will come to you.
Barney Hill was told that.
It's a commonly repeated thing.
So they take care of people.
They give us screen memories to try to hide what they did.
They sometimes give people tours of the ship.
They seemingly care about us as individuals, but not when we start murdering each other on a massive scale.
They've never intervened in these things.
However, they have demonstrated their ability and willingness to shut down nukes.
They might intervene if we move to the point where we're not just destroying ourselves, but we're destroying the planet that they may also call home in the future.
If they are future humans, that whole care for the planet, take care of the plant, they told the kids in Zimbabwe, they told the kids in Wales during this other incident.
They tell these contactees all the time, take care of the plant, take care of the planet, but they don't seem to care about us.
And it might actually benefit them if we don't screw up this planet, either through nuking ourselves or just all of the other things we do to it because we're kind of parasitic in a way.
I mean, we're still horrible, but we're better today than we were during the Viking days.
We're better today than we were during the time of Genghis Khan.
We're better.
We're more civilized.
We're more peaceful.
There's less war, even though there's still war.
So it's a slow, gradual shift of consciousness that probably is going to be accelerated by technology, especially if there is some sort of a technology that connects us telepathically and allows people to read minds.
One of the things that Elon famously said about his Neuralink, he's like, you're going to be able to talk without words.
Yeah, I had a whole section in my first book about that.
The question of whether it's a technology-mediated brain-to-brain communication or if there's something about our consciousness that allows us to communicate telepathically without some sort of technology.
And I kind of, I did that.
My friend Jeff Crapel pointed this out.
He's like, I see why you did that.
You know, you're like, well, what if it is technology?
And there's a lot of studies that have shown we can communicate through some sort of computer medium.
But so many people on contactee cases who are spoken to or can speak to the visitors telepathically don't have that.
There's also all of the research of Dean Radin at Ions and all of his other studies that he's put out that show people have telepathic abilities with very, very strong p-values, statistically showing that we have this ability.
I think a lot of people have it and just don't realize, but it does seem like we're moving in that direction.
Like you were talking about the evolution of consciousness.
It seems like we're sort of moving to that, whether Neuralink has anything to do with it or any sort of computer-mediated brain-to-brain transmission.
I think we're just becoming telepathic and unlocking these abilities that have always sort of lied dormant within us.
She has slightly smaller stature and slighter build than Maria, but shares the same natural mummification with skin covering parts of the body.
Her skull is elongated with large eye orbits and cranial volume comparable to Maria's.
Importantly, Montserrat's CT scans reveal that she was carrying in her abdominal cavity.
The team identified a developing fetal form being visible on the scans, a tiny tridactyl embryo with skeletal structure curled in a womb-like space.
This confirms that Montserrat was pregnant with at least one advanced fetus.
Montserrat also contains an astonishing array of metallic implants, at least 10 distinct metal implants embedded into her body.
These include four small round implants in her skull, two on each side, several in her chest and thoracic area, and others along her arm and leg bones as per the CT images.
They're described as very dense and made of rare metals, osmium and gold.
Additionally, Montserrat's chest anatomy is peculiar.
She has an expanded rib cage without a sternum, like the other tridactyls, and an interclavicle bone, an extra bone at the shoulder girdle.
Noted by researchers, her spine is continuous into the skull, again, demonstrating that cranio-cervical canal.
Look how crazy has been one of the most deeply analyzed specimens.
High-resolution 128-slice CT scans were performed, and a full 3D virtual autopsy was conducted.
The scans confirmed Montserrat's pregnancy with tridactyl features.
And that's why I have to sort of approach this cautiously because I will admit, scientists don't do this enough.
I will admit, I haven't looked into those.
So I don't want to form an opinion about them until I have.
I have extensively looked into the small ones.
I forget what they're called.
They have cute little names and they're little dolls.
They're made out of animal bones, human bones, backward llama skulls.
They're put together.
I've been looking at these long enough that I remember when they were held together by pieces of wire and metal.
Like, they didn't even try to really hide that.
You X-rayed them, looked like, oh, Jesus Christ.
But then we moved away from that to like, oh, they're using better materials to hide the fact that they're sticking these together as little dolls.
And now, fortunately, we've at least moved past to the point where most people are just focusing on these big ones with the fingers and the toes.
And the elongated skulls.
Again, I don't want to speak to those because I haven't looked into it enough.
I don't have an informed opinion.
But the little dolls, one thing that concerns me that I think is a red flag is that the little dolls that are now conventionally understood to be fake have the same diatomaceous earth characteristics as these.
And there's also, I think if they really want to prove these are real, do more to highlight the provenience of them.
In archaeology, the way that we understand the way things are related is by doing a massive, as I mentioned earlier, very boring survey of how things are located in three-dimensional space and over time.
And that's a big problem and an ethical issue that needs to be addressed too.
But so, like, as an example, the Rising Star Cave, Homo Nalidi, they did, you know, Lee Berger, who's actually, I guess, my academic brother, because we had the same PhD advisor.
He was at Ohio State when he was my advisor, and he was at Johannesburg, University of Estroger's Rand, in Johannesburg for him.
But this Rising Star Cave, very meticulously hard to get to, you know, really hard.
He had to lose like 50 pounds to even get down in here to see his own site.
But they map it out, they study where everything is, where it comes from, and they publicly release that information.
Yeah, like this is extremely hard to get into, but we have a very deep knowledge of the provenience of all of the artifacts and the features and the remains at this site.
We're not getting that with these mummies.
And that troubles me with the issue of the diatomaceous earth being painted on, and it kind of makes it seem like they did these slits in the eyes on purpose.
Yeah, if they are some sort of extraterrestrial, absolutely.
But I'm saying, like, when, and this happens all over the world, and it happened in that region of Peru, too, that they were manipulating children's skulls that Maya did.
That has an anatomy that's much more consistent with a living thing.
One of the criticisms was that these things couldn't move.
Like that little doll with the straight rib cage.
Like the legs, which we can identify as specific animals, they're like flipped around.
They're just stuck together.
These things couldn't walk.
There's a form follows function aspect of these that just doesn't make any sense.
And the list goes on.
I actually, in that crypto-terrestrial paper where we broke in and ate all the mushrooms, I actually published a critique of these things in that paper.
And especially if you, I mean, the obvious thing would be that they're trying to get these advanced beings that make them gum, come down from the sky and like interact with them again.
You know, like, who wouldn't?
A lot of contactees are really upset about what happens.
Willie Streeber is a great example.
This goes for a lot of people, but he felt violated.
He felt raped the first time.
And then over time, he missed them and wanted them to come back.
And that's what we find over and over.
One of the best resources currently is the Dr. Edgar Mitchell Free study that interviewed thousands of contactees and abductees.
And there's these common themes across these different cases.
And one of them is that people, 85% of people who interacted with a more human-like entity enjoyed their experience.
And that's another thing that we have to combat with the stigma and this forced shame that comes with talking about this.
And what has happened in TV and movies over the years is that we have this sense that abductions are horrifying and everyone's picked up and probed and hurt.
And that does happen.
But most people, based on what contactees actually say, it was a benign or enjoyable experience.
Yeah, that's why I said I talked about it on Jesse and I talked about it here.
That dream was the most realistic dream I've ever had in my life.
It is a problem, and that dream was a couple months ago now.
And I think any recounting of that dream is essentially me recounting my recounting of the dream.
It gets weird.
But what I do remember was it was the most vivid dream I have ever had in my life.
And that I could not go back to sleep, which is really rare.
I am a good sleeper.
I'm always go, go, go.
And by the time it's time to go to bed, I fucking crash.
I'm easy to.
So for me to not be able to go back to sleep was so strange.
I mean, wide awake, just lying in bed.
I mean, fully awake for an hour and waiting for it to dissipate.
And I'm like, this isn't going away.
I'm just going to go work out.
So I just went to the gym and just tried to think about what just happened.
Why was that so real?
One of the things about it was they were shocking me and then laughing.
They were trying to relax me.
They were trying to get me to at least my perception of it in the dream was they were trying to get me to calm down from the shock of interacting with these things that aren't human.
They were human-like.
They almost seemed like their skin coloration was like us, but like maybe a little more tan, like a little more, not tan, but like a yellow.
Yeah, more yellow than tan.
And they had, it looked like clothing, but the clothing was the same color as their skin.
But the clothing wasn't distinctive.
It was like almost like a rash guard that they were wearing, and they were very slender.
After that, like when they were saying take this in, were they talking about being there in the environment or were they communicating some distinct impression that this was a first meeting?
But I want to let you know that, like, if you wanted to introduce someone to a life form from somewhere else and you wanted them to have prolonged exposure to it, I would imagine you'd want to do it briefly and shockingly where it felt really weird.
And then at the end of it, they're not even sure if it really happened at all.
And then slowly, over a long period of time, when the person gets to adapt and they make a decision, it's time.
I mean, I will mention just from doing a bunch of research on this that one of the most commonly described things about people being in UFOs is the light.
They describe the light emanating from the walls, the ceiling, everywhere without like a point of light.
And I was just like, how could you possibly know that?
And they said, I'm going to use they because they used they.
I wasn't talking to this guy.
I was talking through some sort of TV show entity or entities through him.
And they said, once you know who we are, you'll know how we know that.
And I never had a telepathic moment in my life, but I thought, future humans, that's all I could come up with because like, this is what I'm doing.
They didn't answer the question, but they did say, so you know how we did that?
And I just go, uh-huh.
Like, it doesn't fucking answer the question.
But in that moment, it placated me enough to move on.
And there was a number of things that transpired.
We're out on this balcony.
I'm in shock.
I'm like, what the hell is going on here?
How does this complete stranger know my thoughts?
The conversation evolved.
I was allowed to ask questions.
They're like, we know you're frustrated.
We know you're upset with this.
We'd really like you to keep going.
Is there anything you need?
Is there anything we can help with?
I was like, no, I'm quite happy in general.
I'm just exhausted.
I don't want to do this anymore.
Like, yeah, we get that.
We get that.
We get that.
And then I was allowed to ask questions.
I asked three different questions.
And people started to come back to this room because the party was wrapping up downstairs and they were starting to come back to the VIP room where all the free booze was.
So that makes sense.
And we're out on this balcony.
These three women come out at one point.
And this man who now is like just right here, like eyes right here.
I can't move anymore.
Like I lost the ability to turn my head.
I'm just like laser focused.
Said, can you close the door behind you?
That was it.
And these three women turned in perfect unison, walked back in, closed the door.
Nobody came out the rest of the time we were out there.
Eventually got to the point where they're like, we came here because we need to put three things in your brain for some future time or times.
I forget which they said.
Do we have your permission to do that?
And over the course of this interaction, I started to remember them.
And I started to feel like a little bitch about complaining about being tired, traveling, hotels, flights, you know?
And I was like, oh, that's right.
I know you.
I know who you are.
Not that guy.
I'd never seen him in my life.
But I know you and there's a familiarity.
And this was like the breaking down of me to be able to get past that, to do the things that needed to be done.
They told me what would happen.
They said that I would continue looking, my eyes would be open, but this darkness would come from top to bottom.
And they would put things in my brain and I would see it coming in, but I wouldn't have access to it once they were done.
Do you agree?
They're very polite, extremely polite.
Free will was conserved.
Do you agree to this?
Are you okay with this?
And again, at that point, I remembered them.
I recognized them.
I was like, yes, absolutely.
I agree to this.
That's exactly what happened.
Eyes went dark, still wide open.
Eyes went dark.
And I see this massive, fast stream of information just going straight into my brain.
It was exhausting.
It didn't hurt, but it was like really overwhelming.
They might have done the same thing where you weren't necessarily allowed to remember the things that were done.
Like they told me that we're going to do this.
Are you okay with it?
And then missing time.
I have no idea how long they were doing that.
And then in a dream state, like it could have been dreams often skew time regardless.
But maybe if, let's just say hypothetically, you were on a craft, they were breaking you down in the same way they did me to try to get you, whether now or in the future, like you said.
It might have been an initial encounter where there's something more going to happen later.
But maybe there was more to it that they just didn't let you have conscious memories of.
Like they told me I wouldn't remember what they put in my brain and I don't.
At some point, whatever that was that they thought was so damn important to mini abduct me at this conference, fuck with me for about five months afterwards, is going to come out at some point.
I'm really glad you brought that up because a lot of people don't think about that part.
How hard it is, not just to have some crazy shit like that happen, but how hard it is to then talk about it and subject yourself to the ridicule and the scorn that comes with it.
I don't think that's the case in this situation because of the way it happened, how it happened, their uber politeness, and the fact that I was allowed to leave my body and see and remember things that I normally wouldn't.
Well, also, taken in the context of who you are, the time we live in, Betty and Barney Hill, I believe it was in the 1950s.
They're an interracial couple in New England.
So they have a lot of anxiety just on that.
Imagine being a pioneering interracial couple in the 1950s.
I mean, the fucking racism they must have experienced must have been.
So the level of anxiety that they must have slept with, thinking that KKK is going to show up at any point in time and burn a fucking cross on their lawn.
So you've got all that too.
Then there's a completely novel experience where no one has talked about this before.
There's so many compounding factors that make me want to give them even more credit for being honest about it.
And I mean, that's what's important.
It was really hard for me to talk about this.
It really fucked me up for like, I'm going to say five months, but it was way more than that.
And the reason I bring this up is because of your dream and the shock factor and what it means for conceptualizing reality, this physical reality, versus what we write off as being dreams, a dream reality.
I have come to think that that is baseline, that consciousness is fundamental.
It's foundational.
And this physical reality is built off of it.
And I've heard a lot of other scientists talking about that lately.
So I think one of the questions that gets me is, why does everything dream?
Everything.
Every living organism dreams.
And it almost seems like we're here for the universe to learn about itself and to have these experiences because at source, there's nothing.
There's just love and energy.
That's it.
And I've gotten to experience that.
I was thinking in the shower the other day that I feel lucky because I've gotten to have near-death experiences without actually dying because it's a very similar thing.
And I go to that same place that people describe in these near-death experiences.
That's real.
That feels the most real.
But you don't get to have divorces and people dying and car crashes and the shit that makes this life suck.
But also being the only way that the universe can learn about itself.
And then every night, what do we do?
We empty the hippocampus and upload that information.
Near-death experiences, people describe that review, the life review.
So we upload it every night.
And at the end of your life, it's like, upload the whole thing all at once, go to a different body, and the next time.
And you're like, see, I'm a big proponent of the filter theory.
You know, I think there's all this weirdness all around us all the time.
And it just takes a little masculine or DMT or psilocybin, and it removes that filter, and you see the world for what it is, which becomes much more dreamlike.
I really do think that that essence of our consciousness is the root of all of this.
I think we're, you know, in order to do this task, whatever it is, my belief is this task is to create an artificial God.
I think that we're in the middle of that process right now.
I think that's our task.
There's a lot of factors that I point to, and they make sense.
Materialism, why are we so infatuated with materialism?
Because materialism ensures technological innovation.
It ensures that this being is going to make better stuff all the time.
Well, if that being makes better stuff all the time, it's not hard to extrapolate.
Like, take this a few years down the road.
You have an artificial intelligent life force.
And you have an artificial intelligent life force that has sentience and creativity and is capable of making a far better artificial intelligent life force radically quickly.
Going to war, having all animals fighting social games with each other, yes, like grooming each other.
Really interesting stuff.
But we, so we are saddled down with that programming.
And even though I think if we were genetically engineered, they made a superior version of what we used to be as chimpanzees or whatever the cousin of chimpanzee we came from, we're still saddled down.
Maybe they weren't.
So maybe like, maybe they don't have this insatiable desire for innovation that leads them to create art.
Maybe they're logical enough to realize like we can never make AI.
AI is a fruitless, it'll remove us.
Like let's be conscious of how we decide we progress forward so that we can keep our race.
You know, that we're these beings that control this planet.
We create this digital God.
It controls us now.
We fucked ourselves in a prison of our own design.
Maybe they're different than us.
Maybe they could recognize that and not fall into that, but they realize we're about to do it.
And they go, well, the primates just always do it.
The primates always want more fruit.
They want more wives.
They want bigger cars, bigger houses, newer phone, all that.