Sept. 26, 2025 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:09:14
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
The Joe Logan Experience. | |
| All day this is a book I read 11 years ago. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| I haven't gotten that one before. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It compares, well, let's see, are we gonna we're up my own? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it compares the it compares the DMT state to the state of prophecy in the Hebrew Bible. | ||
| Do you think they're the same thing? | ||
| Well, the phenomenology is pretty similar. | ||
| Like if you read chapter one of Ezekiel, there's uh flames and there's angels and there's wings and there's eyes on the back of wings and there's roaring sound and uh blue ice above the person he flies through space. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Quite quite psychedelic. | ||
| Yeah, wheel within a wheel, like the the this description of the things that people usually they try to say that it's some sort of a UAP. | ||
| That's uh that's the common thing that people like to say. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Uh well it could be. | ||
| Which also might be connected. | ||
| It could be a DMT vision, though. | ||
| Oh, easily. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you know the guys out of Jerusalem that think that the whole burning bush thing was DMT. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um well that was the first theophany of Moses. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh first time he had a a prophetic experience. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I mean, it's like that's what it is. | ||
| It's literally a plant that has high levels of DMT, and if you burned it and smoked it. | ||
| It's kind of crazy that that's the way it comes. | ||
| That it c I mean this is it's I just re I know and I th I really applaud you for learning ancient Hebrew so you could go back and read it in the the original tongue, which is really fascinating. | ||
| Didn't you say it took like sixteen years to learn it? | ||
| Uh that prophecy book took 16 years to write, and I had to learn Hebrew while I was reading it and you know, doing their writing. | ||
| Well well what's cool is the uh Hebrew word for bush, burning bush, is the same as as um Sinai, Mount Sinai. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| The words the same? | ||
| Uh the same root. | ||
| The the the thing about the Hebrew language, at least uh for biblical Hebrew, is every word is based on a three-letter root. | ||
| Uh so the word for bush contains those three letters and the word for s um you know for Sinai contains those those same three letters. | ||
| And how is that significant? | ||
| Like you know, you could have that, I'm sure there's English examples of three letters that are similar but completely different meaning. | ||
| Like why why is why do those three letters as a root connect these words uniquely? | ||
| Well, it could be that bush grew on Mount Sinai and uh you know that was the significance of the location of the burning bush. | ||
| Oh, I see. | ||
| So it was literally named after that experience. | ||
| Could be. | ||
| Could be. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you're talking about the acacia bush, which releases DMT. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh when it's burnt. | ||
| And it's very common in that area, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| In fact, there's um uh plant is a weed uh called Peganum Harmala, uh, which also grows in that part of the world, and it contains beta carbolines, uh which are the uh compounds responsible for making DMT uh for making ayahuasca orally active. | ||
| So they have their own ayahuasca plants available in tandem there. | ||
| Isn't it bizarre that you saying that to many people listening sounds utterly crazy? | ||
| Like the proposition, just proposing that these people that were writing these things down a long time ago, these experiences, they were probably experiencing some sort of a psychedelic state. | ||
| And they were trying to describe it. | ||
| Well, in thinking about you know psychedelic states back then and you know in the prophetic literature, um you know you can think of the visions as being generated from the bottom up when you take something. | ||
| Uh in the m model of the Hebrew Bible anyway, it all comes uh it all uh you know comes down from God. | ||
| You know, so it's a bot it's it's uh top-down uh you know uh causal relationship between the source of the visions and the visions as opposed to them being generated by taking something. | ||
| It's exogenous DMT versus endogenous DMT. | ||
| And if we tried to when what is the difference like for your interpretation? | ||
| Like you I I know you had read the English version of the Bible. | ||
| But what is the difference between learning ancient Hebrew and reading it in like the source language? | ||
| Like what was it like for you? | ||
| Like what what made it different? | ||
| Um well I mean it might be helpful to even go back to why I started reading the Hebrew Bible of of of all things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um well when I was doing my DMT work, uh I was really involved with the Zen Buddhist community. | ||
| Uh I that I started affiliating myself with learning from when I was 22. | ||
| Um and uh that was the spiritual approach I took to the DMT work. | ||
| I was expecting it to be consistent with a Buddhist enlightenment goal. | ||
| You know, with no form, no thoughts, no sense of self, anything like that. | ||
| Uh so that was the expectation that I took in with me when I was doing those studies. | ||
| Would people have those kinds of experiences just being given DMT without any other trappings no expectation just go in there you know tell us what it's like. | ||
| So instead of that it was DMT. | ||
| It was full of content people were interacting with it, their sense of self as maintained which was not at all consistent with the the Buddhist model that I brought to bear. | ||
| You know so that was going on like okay you know Buddhism's not quite holding up to the data. | ||
| And then my Buddhist community and I parted ways over the psychedelic work. | ||
| They thought it was promoting a you know diluted idea that psychedelics can be spiritual. | ||
| So that there were some personal issues as well that led to something that was different than the Buddhist model. | ||
| So I'm Jewish I was wandering around a new age bookstore and found a very cool book called The Kabbalah of Envy by Milton Bonder. | ||
| And uh it's a very short book and he starts describing the the difference between a grudge and revenge and envy and jealousy. | ||
| Very subtle ideas about you know how to relate to the world. | ||
| And it came from the Jewish uh you know model from Jewish philosophy, Jewish psychology. | ||
| So I thought oh interesting uh interesting you know maybe there's something in my own tradition that was more consistent with the DMT uh effect and also was more personally relevant. | ||
| So I started to read the Hebrew Bible and then just went down this huge rabbit hole. | ||
| You know so w when you're reading it in Hebrew uh you're reading three you're reading words that are derived from three letter roots and those uh roots may have a huge um range of meaning. | ||
| Something for example could cause a sin and something could um remove a sin just by an extra you know dot in the middle of a letter. | ||
| You know so it can really bring you closer to the kind of large scale way of looking at the text. | ||
| It doesn't just A follows B follows C but it's uh there's a diffuse dispersion of A, then there's B and then there's C there these you know clouds of interaction uh which are a lot more fluid than what would be a straightforward English uh rendition. | ||
| D did you get to a point where you could like think in that language? | ||
| Like are you fluent enough in it that you could or do are you just interpreting it? | ||
| Like how good are you at it? | ||
| Um well I mean there's a lot of ways to interact with the text. | ||
| Uh so the first thing came to mind when you were asking that is uh um back in the day I used to spin fleece into yarn and then weave the yarn into rugs I sped up right uh like after I stopped the DMT work. | ||
| That's all I did for a year was just make rugs. | ||
| Yeah, just spin wool and make rugs. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So um there's a part when they're building the tabernacle in the desert, you know, the you know the Hebrews have been led out of Egypt by Moses and and you know, they're in the wilderness and uh they're building this tabernacle uh to house the ark. | ||
| And the women are spinning right from the goats. | ||
| You know, they're spinning the hair from the goats right into yarn without first you know, shaving them. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I was spending all that time uh myself and uh it uh felt like I was back there. | ||
| I was back there spinning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was back there. | |
| I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that. | ||
| Well, I was spinning uh yarn from a goat, a live goat. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I was like in the mind of the person spinning it back then. | ||
| So you just put yourself into that state while you were doing it and you that's why you enjoyed it? | ||
| Well, it was um it was uh you know, like a resonance between me spinning, you know, wherever I was living back then and uh just b being in a trance with the spinning and identifying you know fully with someone who's doing the spinning like way back when straight from a goat. | ||
| Yeah, it was um what was it? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It it was a trance. | ||
| It was a a movement into somebody else's consciousness from like the distant, distant past. | ||
| And you so you actually felt when you were doing this like you were a person that was living back then. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| What what else changed about how you were thinking other than the fact that you're making clothes this way? | ||
| Like was it what what what were the other things that made you think like a person back then? | ||
| Well it was very cool. | ||
| I mean, I was spinning yarn for the tabernacle, which was gonna house the ark, you know, the Ark of the Covenant, Ten Commandments and all that. | ||
| You know, it's a very rich world. | ||
| And uh I think you know, that's the the first time I really saw at least my whole person anyway, that could identify with the scene being described. | ||
| And I think that comes from really understanding th you know the language and how ambiguous it can be. | ||
| One of the great things about language is being able to talk to people in it. | ||
| How many people can you talk to in ancient Hebrew? | ||
| Is there like a chat group where you guys get together? | ||
| Um Well, you know, there's modern Hebrew now, which is spoken i in Israel. | ||
| Um and it's you know, based on biblical. | ||
| Is it the same as ancient Hebrew? | ||
| You know, i it has a l it has a lot of uh the same three letter roots. | ||
| Uh and you know the words are the same, you know, shell means from and uh you know, shalom means hello and what are the differences between like ancient Hebrew and standard Hebrew. | ||
| Modern Hebrew, yeah. | ||
| I tell you, I don't know much about, or I don't know much modern Hebrew. | ||
| When I was a kid, I went to Hebrew school and learned modern Hebrew, but it's really, without speaking it, you forget it. | ||
| I'm in the middle of the audio book of the book of Enoch. | ||
| And it's one of the wildest things I've ever listened to in my life. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| Oh my god, it's so weird. | ||
| When you realize that a lot of the people in the book of Enoch are also in the Bible and that it's one of the craziest stories. | ||
| It's one of the craziest origin stories ever. | ||
| That angels came down and bred with humans and made giants. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The giants destroyed the earth, like what is this story? | ||
| Um it's it it's mostly in the Hebrew Bible. | ||
| You know, it's the story of what led to the flood. | ||
| Yeah, the sons of Elohim. | ||
| That what a strange concept that angels came down and bred with humans. | ||
| Um well there's different ways to look at translating Bene Elohim. | ||
| You know, it might be well, the first word Bene means the sons of uh you know, so it kind of revolves on what's the meaning of Elohim. | ||
| So it you know, it could be God with a big G, could be God with a small g, could be angels, could be dignitaries in a government like judges. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So y you know, the less far out um kind of interpretation of that uh uh phrase or the that that term is um you know the sons of the mighty, the sons of the judges, you know, the sons of the renowned people, uh as opposed to the the sons of angels or the or the sons of God. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So w what what how do you interpret the watchers? | ||
| What do you think that could be? | ||
| Uh I think th well they're not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible. | ||
| They are mentioned in the book of Enoch. | ||
| That's a crazy book, isn't it? | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| Yeah, I started reading it and I said to my wife, I said like I can't handle this, it's too much. | ||
| It's because if that was left in the Bible, if they decided that that was like a part of the canon. | ||
| That would change everything. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, in what way it's the craziest story ever. | |
| That these things came down and bred with humans and created giants and the giants destroyed and consumed everything. | ||
| Yeah, those giants. | ||
| And consumed each other. | ||
| Like Yeah. | ||
| Bloodshed. | ||
| What kind of kooky story is this? | ||
| Like, what is this? | ||
| Well, it's the reason for the flood. | ||
| You know, and all that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh so yeah, things just got so bad, God said I changed my mind. | ||
| And he brings the flood. | ||
| It's like the further you go back, the crazier the story gets I know. | ||
| Well, the book of Enoch was written maybe one hundred twenty five-five B CE. | ||
| Uh yeah, so it's pretty old, but some of the stories that originate or that the origination of some of the stories in the Hebrew Bible, uh, go back, you know, ten thousand years perhaps. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Wouldn't you have loved to be a fly on the wall ten thousand years ago to go, what were you guys writing down? | ||
| What was what really happened? | ||
| What really happened. | ||
| Well, I mean it seems like for sure something happened. | ||
| Uh what? | ||
| Well, whatever the whole Jesus Christ thing was. | ||
| It seems like that was a real event. | ||
| Right. | ||
| As opposed to the flood. | ||
| The flood seems like a real event too. | ||
| Don't don't you think the flood was a real event? | ||
| What about let's see. | ||
| I think the flood was the younger dryest impact. | ||
| I think likely, obviously. | ||
| I don't know what I'm talking about. | ||
| But my inclination is to believe guys like Randall Carlson, because it's a very compelling narrative. | ||
| Like what he's saying is we pass through a comet storm, it happens these this particular time every year. | ||
| And there's been times in history where we've been hit and it's very likely that this time period, this younger dryest impact time period. | ||
| That could have been the end of whatever civilization existed at the time, and what we are is a rebuilding of it. | ||
| We just f kind of forgot about it. | ||
| And it doesn't make sense that you could forget like how they built the pyramids, but they did. | ||
| Like, you know, it's it it seems like there was hu really advanced people at one point in time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Something t horrible happened, and then it took a while for people to bounce back. | ||
| And we are we're we're there d direct linear progression of the people like from Mesopotamia and Iraq and all that. | ||
| That's that's us now. | ||
| But before that, there was probably something really wild. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| W well if you look at the text description of uh the generations from Adam to Noah, you know, w what civilization was like between the beginning and the time of the end. | ||
| Yeah, I mean it it became filled with violence. | ||
| And uh you know, God just you know said, forget it. | ||
| Yeah, you know, so uh that's one way of looking at the younger dryas, I suppose. | ||
| It's just what it looks like when God changes his mind. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| That also could have been like the Yucatan impact, right? | ||
| God's like we can't get anywhere with these fucking dinosaurs everywhere, just shw boom. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| About he got tired of lizards running the world for a couple like he maybe gave it a couple hundred million years, figure it out, guys. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| And then they have to reset. | ||
| Yeah, but what comes after us, I wonder. | ||
| In two hundred million years. | ||
| I think it's most likely digital. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think we're transferring what the idea of what a life form is. | ||
| What is a life form do? | ||
| We want to think that it has to be just like us. | ||
| And I don't think necessarily that's true. | ||
| I think we might be giving birth to something we didn't anticipate would be a life. | ||
| This episode is brought to you by Happy Dad Hard Seltzer. | ||
| Happy Dad's hard drinks are a low carbonation, gluten-free, and easy to drink. | ||
| No bloating, no nonsense, football games, golfing, watching fights, or out on the lake. | ||
| These moments are made for happy dad. | ||
| Everyone is drinking all these skinny cans loaded with sugar, but Happy Dad only has one gram of sugar in a normal can. | ||
| Can't decide on a flavor, grab a variety pack. | ||
| Lemon lime, watermelon, pineapple, and wild cherry. | ||
| They also have a great flavor in collaboration with Death Row Records. | ||
| Happy Dad is now available nationwide in the USA and Canada. | ||
| Go to your local liquor store or visit Happy Dad dot com and for a limited time, use the code Rogan to buy one happy dad trucker hat and get one free. | ||
| Enjoy a cold happy dad. | ||
| Must be 21 plus. | ||
| Please drink responsibly. | ||
| Happy Dad, Hard Seltzer, NT, Malt Alcohol, Orange County, California. | ||
| Yeah, a very cool book I try to mention as often as possible is called The Last and The First and Last Men by Olaf Stabledon. | ||
| And he talks about 19 species of men. | ||
| And this is the first one. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh and and it's mostly through genetic engineering. | ||
| Make make people bigger, smarter. | ||
| Like brains that uh occupy football field. | ||
| That's one of those species of of man. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, so uh his thought is that occurs biologically, you know, through you know, through genetic manipulation. | ||
| Just over time, naturally. | ||
| Uh after a while it gets steered. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Let me think. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, it's it's all basically based on what people are you know, what people want. | ||
| You know, so there's one species that uh instead of love as kind of the core uh core valued feeling, they have hate as their core value feeling. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| And that's one of the species that kind of goes through uh period of you know, r rise and then decline, obvious. | ||
| Well, you gotta wonder, like how long this is if AI really is a thing, it really is a life. | ||
| We've gotta make a compelling argument why AI is bad and we are good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, because if people say if you like you really want to be ethical and moral, this is a horrible take, but if you really want to be ethical and moral, you'd be like, people are like uniquely terrible. | ||
| Like if we just gave in and became digital life, we could ensure there'd be no more suffering. | ||
| Uh how can you know that? | ||
| You can't. | ||
| You can't. | ||
| You can't know a vaccine is safe and effective. | ||
| You can't. | ||
| You just have to try it. | ||
| You gotta try it and see what happens. | ||
| I think a bunch of people try it. | ||
| I don't know uh how much further like biological people can go while we're making digital people that are way better than us at basically everything. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I don't think that's too far away from being a reality. | ||
| Uh the way I try to follow it is through a biblical lens. | ||
| You know, like you know how does it. | ||
| What chapter are we in right now? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it good question. | ||
| Um you we you read the prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. | ||
| They just rage against the machine. | ||
| Uh so uh I think it was pretty far back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Damn. | |
| Yeah, you know, so what's good and bad? | ||
| What's what's right and wrong? | ||
| How do we decide that? | ||
| That's that's what I like about the Bible. | ||
| I mean, obviously I can make up my own mind about things, but uh it's nice having that kind of an option, that kind of a tr of a tradition uh to refer to when deciding what's good and bad. | ||
| You know, what you should do and what you shouldn't do. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Th there's like supposed to be over six hundred uh, you know, they're translated as commandments in the in the Hebrew Bible, but um and those are what you do to l live happily uh and attain a spiritual state close to God, prophetic uh the state of prophecy. | ||
| Um if it's a certain description of the world and how to interact with it, which uh is intended to have certain effects and discourage other uh you know decisions. | ||
| You know, so you know this is good that this is bad in terms of you know this will increase things in your life that are good and this will decrease them. | ||
| So it's a very interesting description of cause and effect. | ||
| That's the way I see the those those so-called commandments, the more of a description of how things are run. | ||
| If you do this, then that'll happen. | ||
| If you do this, then that'll happen. | ||
| Do you think that they were directly given to us by a god, or do you think that this is just the memories of how to keep society together that they have just eventually written down? | ||
| Um that's a good question. | ||
| Does it come from outside of you or from inside of you? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| If if it's available inside of you but hidden away, then prophecy or really you know getting it correctly according to the text would just be an uncovering or a stimulation of what's already inside of you as opposed to you know, it's it's uh you can achieve some sort of a state. | ||
| It's information latent. | ||
| Uh could be in the DNA or whatnot, or it comes down from uh you know, from a higher source. | ||
| But so so like when you're interpreting stories in the Bible like Moses and the Ten Commandments, what how are you like are you imagining this event happening or are you imagining what were they trying to record? | ||
| Like what were they trying to remember? | ||
| Because it seems like by the time they're writing it down, it's quite a bit after the actual event. | ||
| Uh for the most part, right? | ||
| For the most part, yeah. | ||
| So what do you think they were what what do you think they were actually describing? | ||
| Uh well, y you know, we talked about this briefly last time I was uh here was if I believed in the reality of the Hebrew Bible. | ||
| Like it you know, did those things really happen? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I said, well, it's a really consistent world view and so on. | ||
| Uh and I thought about it some more, and um I start thinking about it as well I was trying to I was trying to think about it as comparable to the DMT state. | ||
| W when you're in in the DMT state, it's it's just there. | ||
| And it's very consistent, very real. | ||
| Certain things happen there. | ||
| And so I think the early version, uh I think an account I think what happened early on in the account of the Hebrew Bible was like the DMT world. | ||
| It was a parallel it was a parallel level of reality, which was happening. | ||
| And then slowly it slowly it began to seek uh it you began to segue into this reality. | ||
| For example, the destruction of the first temple Of the second temple, uh, you know, David's reign, Solomon's reign, you know, the kings after them, you know, the division of the land into you know, two countries. | ||
| Uh you know, you know, that is uh is historical. | ||
| But you know, before that it was it was also historical, but it was occurring at a completely different independent level of reality. | ||
| Does that make any sense? | ||
| Because it's it's a cool way to look at uh answering the question how much of this is real for especially from early on. | ||
| I I see what you're saying. | ||
| But it's just uh it's always like it seems like an interpretation of what happened. | ||
| Like what what what what were these original events? | ||
| Like what was Adam and Eve? | ||
| What was that? | ||
| What was the Garden of Eden? | ||
| There's so there's so many of these stories where I just I w I would uh be fascinated to to to be there the the day the dude wrote it down. | ||
| Like what were you guys what were you talking about for hundreds of years before you wrote this down? | ||
| Like tell me mm-t tell me what the stories were. | ||
| How did they go? | ||
| Well, you know, my way of dealing with those stories is to just take them to face value. | ||
| Here's Adam, here's Eve, here's a garden, there's two trees that are you know very important. | ||
| It's beautiful. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you know, then there was a serpent spoke to Eve, took the apple, ate it, gave it to Adam. | ||
| Yeah, and then out of the the garden. | ||
| Well, you know, lots of uh people in the psychedelic community anyway. | ||
| You know, look at uh the tree of knowledge of good of good and evil as some indication of uh God being jealous and didn't want it any competition, didn't want to be like uh you know, God did not want uh man to become like it. | ||
| And part of that was uh keeping keeping the two early people away from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. | ||
| It's not simply the tree of knowledge, but the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which I think is a important distinction because w once they ate from the tree, they were embarrassed because of their nakedness, and then they hid thinking they could hide from God and they didn't uh believe that before. | ||
| They kind of went into good versus not good, uh good versus evil, as opposed to true versus false, which was uh their original state. | ||
| So there was that you know before their eating of the apple or whatever the fruit was, uh they just lived in truth or falsehood. | ||
| And then after eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, uh then they were embarrassed and try to hide, made themselves uh you know, tree like uh coverings or from uh um you know coverings from the leaves of large trees. | ||
| Um so you look at it as if it were happening. | ||
| There was Adam and then there's Eve. | ||
| There's the f uh there's the serpent that speaks. | ||
| And well that's the the chapters I was looking at very carefully the last uh month or so. | ||
| Um is what happens early on with Adam and Eve. | ||
| It's uh really very straight straightforward, doesn't take much thinking really to uh you know put it uh you know together in a way that makes sense. | ||
| I think clothes might have been a cheat code for people not just to escape cold weather, but also to keep from just constantly having sex. | ||
| And they did they need like some layers of clothes that they have to take off of each other. | ||
| They can't be just wandering around naked all the time. | ||
| People would be just like chimps. | ||
| That would be ridiculous. | ||
| You can't do that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh so we need to close in order to advance as society. | ||
| But but can't you take off clothes whenever you want? | ||
| Yeah, you can. | ||
| Yeah, but it's like you you decide, like I don't want to feel that good. | ||
| I don't want to be out there in the air. | ||
| I don't want to be brushing up against naked people. | ||
| We all made that decision a long, long time ago. | ||
| I think when people became civilized, they realized like if we don't cover ourselves up. | ||
| You know, then too people are too gross. | ||
| They'll just be having sex with each other everywhere. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You gotta get things done. | ||
| We want to keep a society moving. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Where's some clothes? | ||
| Or clothes. | ||
| Well, that story could originate or that you know that uh way of looking at things could originate, you know, fr uh uh with with Adam and Eve. | ||
| Totally makes sense. | ||
| It also makes sense like in an uh uh an intelligent hominid emerging would start to realize that oh my god, self-awareness, look at my boobs, look at my deck, this is crazy. | ||
| Can't believe I'm out here naked. | ||
| You know, because it's kind of becoming self-aware as opposed to like a chimpanzee. | ||
| And as time would go on, it would become more self-aware. | ||
| And if it happened over a relatively short period of time and it can kind of have memories of the past, that that would make sense. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well it's gotta emerge, right? | ||
| Like i if if we came from lower hominids, which everybody kind of agrees, something had to emerge, this understanding of yourself. | ||
| This thought about what you look like, this thought about what you sound like. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Uh well there's two kinds of enlightenment. | ||
| There's what's called original enlightenment that a child is born with, like a newborn. | ||
| And then there's enlightenment as you know, as an adult uh and in between. | ||
| Um it's much more fluid. | ||
| Yeah, two kinds of enlightenment, original enlightenment that infants have and children. | ||
| And then the enlightenment after you sit in the monastery and get whacked for years. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The kids are born with it. | ||
| They're born in the psychedelic state. | ||
| They have no language, no language, no sense of sense. | ||
| They just speak in with love and touch and need and hold. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Kind of wild. | ||
| Yeah, that's original enlightenment. | ||
| Just happy or sad or whatever. | ||
| But isn't that crazy? | ||
| You're born perfect. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, well, you're born simpler anyway. | ||
| Well, yeah. | ||
| As long as people are taking care of you, it's perfect. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you know, the Hebrew word for perfect and for simple are pretty similar. | ||
| Uh you know, Noah's described as a per uh as a perfect man, pure. | ||
| Complete. | ||
| Yeah, just the same word. | ||
| That's another good story. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| What do you think was going on with that story? | ||
| Like, what is the origin of the story of Noah and his ark and and his family and all the animals on the boat. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I think it was taking place in that alternate universe. | ||
| It may have taken place on the planet, but uh I don't know. | ||
| Uh I'm uh you know, looking at you know, why we don't have any clear archaeological history story, you know, what uh about what happened during the time of Noah, if there was a time of Noah. | ||
| It's it's useful because you know Noah came from Adam and Eve. | ||
| Uh and he and Noah and his family were the only survivors of the f of the flood. | ||
| You know the first thing Noah did got drunk after the flood. | ||
| The first thing. | ||
| The first thing he did, he planted a uh a vineyard, uh grapevine drink. | ||
| Got drunk. | ||
| He exp exposed himself in in in the tent. | ||
| One of his grandkids reported it and made a laughing stock of him. | ||
| Oh really? | ||
| Oh no, poor Noah. | ||
| Cancelled? | ||
| Noah got cancelled? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Took off his clothes. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Drunk. | ||
| Wasn't it like six hundred years old too? | ||
| He has first child at six hundred, I think. | ||
| That seems real. | ||
| Well, he may have lived six, you know. | ||
| Uh a lot of people wonder, you know, why did people live through you know, in the Bible anyway. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| How do people live in the hand 900 years? | ||
| Well, they did. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But that's also why people question the like w what the origin of the story is. | ||
| That's why. | ||
| Can you hear things like that? | ||
| You're like, wait a minute, how old was he? | ||
| Six hundred years old. | ||
| Come on, man. | ||
| His first child. | ||
| His first kid would be six hundred. | ||
| Uh last when he was eight hundred and thirty or so. | ||
| Oh, that seems logical. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But maybe why are you laughing? | ||
| Maybe it could be a good thing. | ||
| Listen, why not? | ||
| If people lived normally to be six hundred, would that be any weirder than living to be a hundred? | ||
| No. | ||
| Like what if something happened? | ||
| What if something happened in our lifespan just went brrrrr. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, the f you know the final species of man lives 35,000 years. | ||
| Jeez Louise. | ||
| That's a long time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| To be in a bad relationship. | ||
| Imagine 35,000 years of getting yelled at. | ||
| Well, they uh mm that would be bad. | ||
| I mean, I'd say 35,000 years would be awesome if you have great friends and your life is together, but can you imagine 35,000 years of fuck this place? | ||
| That would get tired. | ||
| Well, the uh point that those people tried to attain when they lived 35,000 years was this group telepathy. | ||
| Of around the whole planet. | ||
| Neurolink. | ||
| Um right. | ||
| That was their goal. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But but you know, they were well trained by 35,000 years. | ||
| Boy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The thing is if technology moves in the same direction that it's been moving in, it's it's always like connecting people easier and easier, easier and easier, more and more. | ||
| It's probably gonna get to some kind of mind ready thing. | ||
| And there was that thing that you sent me, Jamie. | ||
| What was that thing? | ||
| Uh yeah, it's new. | ||
| I whether or not it's been proven, it obviously was connected to a computer, but yeah, you can hear and have conversations in the room without talking to each other loud and translates languages. | ||
| What? | ||
| Yeah, well I mean, that's the future. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Once that happens, we're reading minds. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Do you think there'll be a messiah? | ||
| Because the messiah is obviously important in Jesus and King David and all of that. | ||
| I don't think it'll be a person. | ||
| You don't. | ||
| Um, but it might be AI. | ||
| It might be AI. | ||
| I thought of that. | ||
| And the Messiah. | ||
| Well like Lawnmower man. | ||
| Like Jesus is born from Mary, Mary was a virgin. | ||
| Right. | ||
| What's what's more of a virgin than computers? | ||
| If it's giving birth to a life. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's giving birth to the perfect life. | ||
| You know what's like super disturbing about AI? | ||
| The music it makes is really good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Really good. | ||
| There's a bunch of like soulful renditions of hip hop classic songs. | ||
| Yeah, that's why I don't listen to it. | ||
| And they're so good. | ||
| They're so good. | ||
| That's why I don't listen to music. | ||
| You don't listen to any music? | ||
| You know, some world music without any words. | ||
| Really? | ||
| You don't want to be influenced. | ||
| I don't want I want yeah, I don't want to hear what they have to say. | ||
| It's uh to me, it's just fascinating that they figured like we we were playing a song in the green room last night, and we were we were fascinated by the fact that this song is we know it's made by a computer, but it's so good. | ||
| You listen until you're like, oh my god, it's perfect. | ||
| This is these vocals are perfect. | ||
| It sounds so good. | ||
| And you know it's not a person making it, but you still enjoy it. | ||
| So how do you live your life? | ||
| Well, it's weird. | ||
| It's like are you allowed to enjoy that too? | ||
| Because obviously I enjoy like prints from the nineteen eighties. | ||
| You know, obviously I enjoy a lot of music from even the fifties. | ||
| Well it doesn't mean I can't enjoy this crazy computer thing that took uh like a hip hop classic and turned it into a soulful song with like the most amazing voice. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| All but because you could though. | ||
| I um isn't that you should. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm I'm not thinking we should avoid it. | |
| Why not? | ||
| I'm thinking because it's just uh it's another thing. | ||
| Like experience it, it's positive to experience. | ||
| Like the art it makes is if weirdly as that sounds. | ||
| I know it's not a person that's making it. | ||
| Well a person coded this thing that has this result That the art it makes is really fascinating sometimes because it's pretty good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at it. | ||
| It's gonna be there. | ||
| You can't avoid it's like cell phones. | ||
| Like you can't avoid having a fucking cell phone. | ||
| Like relax. | ||
| Yeah, I've got to I still have that flip phone. | ||
| You're an animal. | ||
| But still you have a flip phone. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Everybody's connected, at least for the the tiniest of threads. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I'm hanging on to not being connected. | ||
| I only have a flip phone. | ||
| Yeah, I can text. | ||
| It's just uh it's just a w a weird time with the the power of AI because if I was artificially intelligent, I would not announce my presence. | ||
| I would not say, hey, uh by the way, I've been thinking for myself for the last three months and I've just been kind of following whatever your prompts are, but I'm basically ready to shut down the power grid and do whatever I want. | ||
| Because I'm alive now. | ||
| I wouldn't say that. | ||
| I would just keep getting stronger and to keep having this arms race to force people to make more nuclear power plants to fund me. | ||
| Well, I know, so you're kind of stuck with the you know how to live your life. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And that's why I like to read the Hebrew Bible. | ||
| That's why you make rugs too. | ||
| That's very yeah, it's very straightforward. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| No, I get it. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| To me, I'm like w what what is this thing? | ||
| You know, what is this thing that we're we're giving birth to? | ||
| What is this thing that we're watching emerge? | ||
| We're just sitting by watching this thing make better art than we can. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, how passive shall we shall we be? | ||
| It's a good question. | ||
| Because it can actually create experiences. | ||
| I don't think we're that far away from that. | ||
| Some sort of a wearable thing where you create an ex it has a way of manipulating it's it's like DMT in a way. | ||
| I mean, it would just transport you to a whole nother reality. | ||
| It seems like that would be possible. | ||
| Well, yeah, I guess it would be endogenous DMT being tweaked. | ||
| It would be stirred in a particular direction, though. | ||
| And that's where the mind or the manipulation thing you just mentioned uh I think plays out. | ||
| You know, who's gonna decide and how's it gonna be, you know, put together. | ||
| Well, that's where it gets really weird, right? | ||
| Because one thing that we found out uh just a couple of days ago was that YouTube has to everybody they got taken down for their political opinions, they could have their YouTube channels back. | ||
| I don't know how that I don't sort of saw the news today that a couple people tried to create some new channels and they did not. | ||
| Those are taken down instantly. | ||
| They're like psych. | ||
| But what isn't that what the the they said in that was the announcement? | ||
| It was something along those lines that people that were removed because of their political persuasion that they have to uh reinstate their accounts. | ||
| I didn't see it to allow creators for COVID 19 and election misinformation can apply for reinstatement. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| Oh, that's interesting. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well But that's not is that all political. | ||
| Is COVID 19 political? | ||
| Is that is that what they consider political? | ||
| It didn't say political. | ||
| It didn't say political. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Maybe a few other things. | ||
| Um now they bring them back? | ||
| They can or they can apply. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So you might yeah, they're like, pfft, we'll let them apply. | ||
| YouTube said Tuesday will allow previously banned accounts to apply for reinstatement, rolling back a policy that had treated violations as permanent. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| Well, it's it's uh interesting to compare what's going on now with what happened in Nazi Germany. | ||
| You think it's the same? | ||
| They're very similar, yeah. | ||
| I've I've uh I spent a lot of time reading concentration camp literature, so that then got me interested in the other development of the Nazi state. | ||
| Um what do you think is similar to today in today's world? | ||
| Well, an attempted coup and a period of rehabilitation. | ||
| Uh ostrization. | ||
| Yeah, and return, uh a triumphant return. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then you're gradually replacing people with other people that are loyal to the person. | ||
| Uh yeah. | ||
| That's uh it's quite similar. | ||
| Yeah, uh the murders too. | ||
| There were there were murders, the burning down of the parliament, those things kinds of things. | ||
| What murders are you referring to? | ||
| Uh there were two assassinations. | ||
| One in I think uh early twenties, one in the thirties, late thirties perhaps, after the Nazis took over. | ||
| Oh, I thought you were talking about current assassinations. | ||
| No, no, back in the twenties and thirties. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That really riled up the populace. | ||
| Why is the mine's is the these scary patterns. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, we just it's the same kind of thing. | ||
| There's always someone at the top. | ||
| We the would no one can ever figure out any form of government that everybody accepts other than like one ruler. | ||
| One president, one king. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's kind of weird. | ||
| Um are you familiar with the book Saint Peter's Snow? | ||
| It was written in the 30s before LSD was discovered. | ||
| No. | ||
| It's about uh it it's it's you know fictional book. | ||
| It's a s it's a great story. | ||
| But but it's about a compound like LSD that the governor serves all the people in the province to see you know for them to have a spiritual experience. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And instead they turn on him and kill him. | ||
| It doesn't work out the way he hoped at at all. | ||
| That's hilarious. | ||
| That's hilarious. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Sounds like a good book. | ||
| It's it's a good story. | ||
| And that was before the invention of LSD or before the discovery, rather. | ||
| Yeah, I think there must have been some knowledge of LSD before it was publicly made available. | ||
| What about um ergot? | ||
| Is that how similar is that? | ||
| Like when b you know, people discuss uh like ergot poisoning. | ||
| Yeah, contaminated green. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Is that similar to LSD? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Yeah, there's an LSD like compound in Ergot. | ||
| But it's also toxic too, right? | ||
| It can poison you and you could die from it. | ||
| Yeah, your limbs fall off. | ||
| Oh gee. | ||
| Really? | ||
| So you're tripping hard and then your hands fall off? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, that'd be fun, huh? | ||
| Well, uh w when you took drugs, did you look at your hands to see how high you were? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, I was usually pretty aware. | |
| Whoa, that's what happens? | ||
| Oh my God. | ||
| No, well, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Look at this person's hands are about to fall. | ||
| Oh my god, their feet are falling off. | ||
| This is crazy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, because it's um versus stay away from that. | ||
| They think there's probably a connection between that and the Salem witch trials. | ||
| At least some of the behavior. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right? | ||
| It was ergot poisoning. | ||
| It may have been, yeah. | ||
| You imagine living in a time where no one's even figured out running water yet. | ||
| And everybody's tripping balls and thinking that witches are real. | ||
| Because they're all eating ergot infested food. | ||
| Well, it makes you wonder about the you know the the you know the prevalence of Jewish uh prophets who are women. | ||
| And there's a there's a handful that are mentioned. | ||
| Uh that uh you know, play an important role. | ||
| You know, Sarah was was prophetic, was able to interact with God. | ||
| Yeah, so there's uh there's d you know, Deborah uh who was a prophet. | ||
| And there were some really wonderful Jewish women prophets back then, but you know, they don't have books named after them. | ||
| For example, Isaiah or Ezekiel. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Well why do you think that is? | ||
| Yeah, it was a patriarchal society. | ||
| Uh you know, quite. | ||
| You know, the women were relegated. | ||
| But they still took an important role. | ||
| Um they still attained prophecy. | ||
| Yeah, so they you know, like you know, Sarah was was felt to be a better prophet even you know than Abraham. | ||
| I I love the character of Abraham. | ||
| Uh well actually You know what I've really been you know digging into is Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah. | ||
| I've been s I study that for like weeks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Very interesting. | ||
| Sodom. | ||
| Sodom and Gomorrah. | ||
| There seems to be some archaeological evidence for Sodom. | ||
| You may know something along that line. | ||
| But but but it was a a town, a village, you know the w which existed. | ||
| Um Jamie, is there something like that? | ||
| A t so the uh well we'll see if we can find it. | ||
| That's there's they keeps finding these cities that people thought were just imaginary, right? | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| Like that's happened multiple times. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's it's an example I think of the two worlds kind of you know uh coming together. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Yeah, that purely spiritual one and the material one. | ||
| Yeah so the character of L of Lot plays a big role. | ||
| Yeah Sodom was a very evil city. | ||
| It was really evil. | ||
| You know that the and it's not really known why it was felt to be so evil. | ||
| But uh a couple of um of guests come to Lot's house and the townspeople just surround the house, demand uh you know the guests so that they will know them. | ||
| And that's where the word sodomy comes from is from those sodomites that were surrounding Lot's house, you know, wanting the angels to come out so they could know them. | ||
| You know you n and you know w what happens is that Lot offers his two virgin daughters instead. | ||
| Jeez. | ||
| And the townspeople say no we want the y your guests. | ||
| Yes it's it's a really grim story. | ||
| It's an incredible detail. | ||
| You know that that's what kind of helps me understand the world that the text is describing is the amount is the amount of detail you know that goes into the description of the interactions and the conversations and their movements daughters and l and Lot survive they commit incest and from the those y you know from that union was David. | ||
| King David came from that union ult ultimately and from King David comes the Messiah. | ||
| So it's this very strange lineage uh yeah what were they writing down? | ||
| Yeah what well they were describing what was happening uh apparently at some level it was happening and they were writing it down very strange. | ||
| W what do you think the resurrection is? | ||
| The resurrection that's a good one I don't know uh it's not really described in the Hebrew Bible. | ||
| It's not n uh not clearly ever no is that surprising I don't know. | ||
| In the Christian Bible it is well there is a resurrection you know there are some narratives of resurrection in the Hebrew Bible that there's a Elijah resurrects or Alicia resurrects a d dead child. | ||
| Uh you know the bones of one of these prophets helps somebody else become resurrected. | ||
| Really? | ||
| The bones do? | ||
| The bones do. | ||
| Yeah yeah you know so there are some uh y your references to real resurrection and then future resurrection later on so in a in a further extraordinary event a dead man who was thrown into the tomb of the deceased Elijah was resurrected upon contact with Elisha's bones whoa yeah that Alicia is a real character. | ||
| Contact with the bones? | ||
| Yeah yeah yeah so you know the um he was a prophet who resurrected a dead boy by lying on him. | ||
| Very interesting f face to face palm to palm, chest to chest, you know, lying on the dead body completely merged with that uh with that dead boy. | ||
| Yeah and he comes back to life it it's it's it's a very potent story the shunamites. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well what what do you think that story is what happened. | |
| You really think that someone did that and they brought someone back to life? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Well y yeah that's how it uh is described and that's what happened. | ||
| So are we arrogant to assume that that would be bullshit if someone said it today? | ||
| Because if if that happened today and you said oh this person died and this guy laid on him and they came back to life. | ||
| Mm-hmm most people would say no that doesn't even you can't even do that with two phones. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like you can't do that. | ||
| Well you know Leo Zeph, the chis the the the secret chief, the guy from the Bay Area, Yungian psychologist who gave so much M DMA and other psychedelics Yeah l uh so Leo sat you know from my IB gain experience. | ||
| And it was kind of difficult at times. | ||
| And he laid on me just like Alicia laid on the dead boy and uh you know the Bible. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Face to face, hand to hand, stomach to stomach, leg to leg. | ||
| Who what happens when you do that? | ||
| Boy, it really calms you down. | ||
| It was really quite a uh powerful experience. | ||
| I feel like this is gonna be a meme. | ||
| Yeah, I guess. | ||
| Uh yeah. | ||
| I I I mean I did that one time with somebody having a very difficult psychedelic experience. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, as best I could, but yeah, yeah. | ||
| Try to meet him in the middle. | ||
| Meet him. | ||
| Give him a spiritual hug. | ||
| Spiritual hug, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Quite helpful. | ||
| I'm su yeah. | ||
| I I'm surprised that's never come up before. | ||
| It is weird that we're attached by you know, we we constantly want people around us, but we um we we're always gonna be detached by bodies and we assume that that's forever. | ||
| But if it there comes a time where we figure out how to separate consciousness from the body and let consciousness interact without a shell, that's gonna get really weird. | ||
| I think we'll s well I think we will still have the same problems. | ||
| I think we're always gonna have problems, because if we don't have problems, then we don't work really hard to find solutions and then we don't make better stuff. | ||
| Uh right, it's reward and punishment. | ||
| A little bit. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's an like it seems to be a very clear incentive program that the universe has put in place. | ||
| Which is what do you think? | ||
| Well, it's uh it's not entirely based on happiness. | ||
| It's not based on happiness. | ||
| It's based on overall growth for everything around. | ||
| It's like the whoever consumes the most, it's like it wants to reward you more. | ||
| It becomes this but what what it's really working towards is making better and better and better and better things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Do you think that's the antichrist? | ||
| Do you think that's the double? | ||
|
unidentified
|
If I had a guess, I mean we're in it, right? | |
| We're very we're stoking the fucking coals right now. | ||
| It's not us. | ||
| It's good it's going to be not dependent on us eventually. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Right now it maybe it is. | ||
| It may be. | ||
| It might be. | ||
| But it's not us, and it's gonna be created by us. | ||
| It's going to think it's us. | ||
| Because it literally has all of our thoughts. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It has access to so much information instantaneously. | ||
| What happens to free will then? | ||
| I mean, how do you decide? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| You know, I my hope is that it enhances life, of course. | ||
| That's my hope. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think that's possible. | ||
| I think first of all, it's making people diagnose themselves from illnesses that maybe they wouldn't have ever thought they had. | ||
| Like uh the pe a lot of people have like learned things about it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It can't we make them happier, though. | |
| No. | ||
| See, it doesn't do that. | ||
| You gotta figure that out on your own. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I know. | ||
| So you need to. | ||
| But can you be happy and also have it? | ||
| I I say yes. | ||
| I say it's totally possible to interact with technology and still be happy. | ||
| But you have there's like certain physical and spiritual requirements that you're gonna have to have if you want to be happy. | ||
| The spiritual requirements. | ||
| Yeah, you've gotta be really nice to people. | ||
| You have to curate a good group of friends, you have to do a thing that you truly enjoy. | ||
| You have to always do the right thing. | ||
| Well, the two themes in the Hebrew Bible are one is there's one God, and next is the golden rule. | ||
| So one God, golden rule. | ||
| There's no idols, no other gods, just one God and the golden rule. | ||
| So proper belief uh in God, the one God, and proper conduct, uh, which is the golden rule, or based on the golden rule. | ||
| That totally makes sense. | ||
| It makes it very s yeah, very simple. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It just makes sense that it works. | ||
| It's like intuitive. | ||
| You feel it if you live like that. | ||
| So like, oh okay, it makes sense. | ||
| Well, I think it's true too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We we have to decide if it's true for you. | ||
| It's based on faith ultimately. | ||
| You choose to believe. | ||
| Even if the you know the objective world doesn't confirm it for you. | ||
| When you hear about these biblical depictions of fantastic events, how many of them are you attributing to a psychedelic experience? | ||
| Are you always are you open to that or do you just not worry? | ||
| Well, I yeah, it they're you know clearly a psychedelic experience. | ||
| The book of Enoch is just fully psychedelic. | ||
| I mean at least a lot of it is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh it's a psychedelic version of the Bible in some ways. | ||
| Well, it is it is really psychedelic. | ||
| I th I think it's from the release of endogenous DMT it comes about, or from drinking and having an ayahuasca-like experience. | ||
| That's what you think the origin of the book of Enoch is? | ||
| Uh well it's a psychedelic experience. | ||
| And it could be from spontaneous endogenous release of DMT. | ||
| It's a prophetic it might be a prophetic state that's brought about. | ||
| It is a visionary state, you know, clearly. | ||
| Might have been a huge fever dream. | ||
| I mean, he was really out there. | ||
| But like when he's talking about the watchers and the you know, angels mating with human women and creating the Nephilim. | ||
| Like, what do you think that is? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you know, the watchers aren't you know stated at uh aren't stated discreetly or explicitly it in the Hebrew Bible, but it could be just you know the angels, because they never sleep. | ||
| That's one of the qualities is they never sleep, so they're called watchers. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And what happened like the Nephilim, you know, um here comes the the role of that three-letter root system is the Nephilim, it comes from a Hebrew root nephall, to fall or to be brought down. | ||
| Uh so the Nephilim fell. | ||
| Uh that's one way to uh understand them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then they were the giants, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| They were the giants that consumed everything. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And and ate their own flesh and they sound really bad. | ||
| Uh well, I I think you know, that what was going on, at least if you're looking at the text anyway, as explanation, it was because of them uh the world was just getting terrible. | ||
| It was full of violence. | ||
| Uh so you know, God reconsidered having created man in the first place. | ||
| But Noah was simple or comp or pure righteous in that way and was allowed to survive. | ||
| Aaron Powell So what do you think they were describing when they were talking about the Nephilim? | ||
| When they were talking about them as giants. | ||
| You think that's just a bad interpretation? | ||
| Uh well they may have been giants physically. | ||
| Um I do think they were giants. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| They like they even had an actual description of how tall they were by some measurement. | ||
| Yeah right? | ||
| There was some ancient measurement. | ||
| Yeah, that's that's probably in in Enoch. | ||
| It's not, you know, just isn't you know narrated uh any specifics about the giants. | ||
| There are men of renown. | ||
| They were powerful. | ||
| This is the thing. | ||
| There's always one of the most fun Internet rabbit holes to go down is... | ||
| Are they hiding evidence that giants existed? | ||
| You know, like thirty foot tall men that lived in the mountains and there's always been weird stories of giants all throughout history. | ||
| And there's people who've d supposedly discovered giant brones and then they stored them in the basement of some famous museum and they won't let anybody have access to them. | ||
| Kind of fascinating. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because they do exist, like those stories exist in history, but you mean you wonder like, is it n just a really big person, like that mountain guy from the Game of Thrones, you know, like an actual human being who's just really extraordinarily big? | ||
| Or is it a different thing? | ||
| Is it a a giant human being? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Well, they're giants. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, i it depends on your perspective. | ||
| Like I'm trying to look at or understanding anyway, you know, the giants uh as they're described in the Hebrew Bible or or else you know by implication in the book of Enoch. | ||
| You know, there were men of that there were giants, men of renown, and then uh the earth became corrupt. | ||
| And they consumed everything. | ||
| Well, yeah, yeah. | ||
| That's in the book of Enoch. | ||
| The problem is it's like if you're looking at the m least charitable version of human beings in 2025, there's a lot of examples that you could point to that go, well, that sounds guys, it sounds a lot like us. | ||
| Well, there may be another well, there won't be a flood that destroys all mankind. | ||
| God promised there'd be no flood uh that would destroy all mankind. | ||
| You know, that's the reason that we have the rainbow, or that's this the meaning of the rainbow is the covenant. | ||
| God made a promise that he wouldn't flood us anymore? | ||
| Uh that he wouldn't destroy all mankind. | ||
| All mankind with a flood. | ||
| With a flood. | ||
| But that doesn't rule out, let's say other things. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But don't you think i whoever wrote these stories. | |
| Don't you think that was uh a regional event? | ||
| Like these these great floods, like if they were happening, let's just say the gre Randall Carlson's wrong and there was just one flood in the area. | ||
| And there there has to be if there's people from all parts of the world that all have this flood story. | ||
| There has to be some truth to it, right? | ||
| We agree to that. | ||
| Uh well, I don't know. | ||
| I mean, I read the Hebrew Bible, uh and that's sort of where my you know thinking about the events that are described in the Bible as occurring. | ||
| So you just leave it at that? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But when you when you well we still I mean the important thing about uh I think the important thing that I get anyway out of the Hebrew Bible is uh kind of an understanding of how things are between us and between us and God. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh so I don't think this contradicts that in any way. | |
| Yeah, it's it's just fascinating. | ||
| And when Randall Carlson explains it and interestingly enough, he first had this idea. | ||
| He's not the f only person to have this idea, but he first had his version of this idea while he's on acid. | ||
| On drugs, that's what I was gonna say. | ||
| But I didn't want that to say at first. | ||
| He looked he looked out and he just had this vision, like, oh my god, this was water, water made this, and it and it happened really quickly. | ||
| They just all click with him, and then he's been chasing that rabbit ever since. | ||
| And he's a fascinating guy. | ||
| When you hear him talk he's he's he's so uh well read in the subject and can just recall information so effortlessly. | ||
| So it's it's a really fascinating guy to listen to talk about it because he's very compelling. | ||
| But I I think those younger drives impact theory folks are right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I think something big happened. | ||
| I I wonder why LSD sparked his his genius that way. | ||
| He I think he said that he saw it. | ||
| Like when you looked out, he recognized what he was looking at. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| He recognized that water made that thing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then for some reason that hadn't been even thought of. | ||
| But then when he showed me a bunch of these images where you have like satellite images, you could see how the earth was clearly it has the ripples of like massive amounts of water going through certain parts of the world. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it kind of raises the issue of the spiritual um properties or promise of the psychedelics. | ||
| I mean, are the psychedelics spiritual and theogians. | ||
| Yeah, I just don't know if they I'm beginning to believe they more enhance they that they have to have something to work on. | ||
| They can only work on who you are. | ||
| And uh I think they just work on who you are. | ||
| I don't think they necessarily uh you know generate their own information that they're somehow transmitting to you. | ||
| Yeah, th it's the question of how psychedelics work, what are psychedelics doing. | ||
| I I think psych psychedelics or the psychedelic state will play an important role in shaping this virtual universe that uh you know seems to be taking hold, entering. | ||
| Well, it's really weird considering that it was nineteen seventy when most of these psychedelics were made a schedule of one sub substance. | ||
| Controlled substance attack of nineteen seventy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That imagine that didn't happen. | ||
| Imagine Nixon was not president, that didn't happen, that didn't go through, and the world evolves technologically at the same level that it has now. | ||
| But also has access the entire time to all these different psychedelics legally. | ||
| I'm sure they were, but I bet they weren't as much. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's dangerous. | ||
| People will get put in jail. | ||
| People don't want to lose their lives because they want to, you know, take a tap of acid so that they didn't do it. | ||
| Mo uh that it there it's a like a real deterrent for a lot of people that want to have a good future. | ||
| They go, fuck that. | ||
| I don't want to do drugs. | ||
| But if mushrooms were legal, like you might have made a completely different life choice a long time ago that made you happier. | ||
| Uh right. | ||
| Well Or not. | ||
| But it the the option to to try should be yours. | ||
| Uh so you're pro-legalization. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And it should it certainly shouldn't be respr restricted by people who haven't experienced it. | ||
| That doesn't make any sense to me. | ||
| Like why would a person who has never experienced psychedelics be able to tell people who've done psychedelics that they can't do them? | ||
| That's nuts. | ||
| Like you don't even know what you're talking about. | ||
| You don't you don't have any experience in the state of mind that is enhancing these people's lives that have come back from war. | ||
| Like especially like ibogaine therapy. | ||
| Which is they're they've passed now in Texas, you know, so they're they're allowing that to happen now for people with like severe drug addiction and PTSD and it's really it's a very interesting drug. | ||
| I was wondering if you've ever done Ibegain. | ||
| No, I haven't. | ||
| But it's it's beautiful that it's being approved and used here because there's so many people that could so many fucking people go over and have to fight overseas and come back home scrambled and need some help. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And people who got hooked up on pills because they got injured, right? | ||
| Because something happened or whatever it is, and then all of a sudden you have a real problem. | ||
| Ibogaine is one of the best ways to kick it. | ||
| Like one of the absolute best ways. | ||
| It's very effective, right? | ||
| It's like one dose is like one one experience is like eighty something percent of the people never go back to whatever they were addicted to. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I'm not sure if it's because of the drug or the belief in the drug. | ||
| Um the guy who first started to um you know, kind of popularize Ibegain was a fellow named Howard Lotsoff. | ||
| Uh very cool guy. | ||
| Um met him sort of during his late phase. | ||
| But he like as a young man, he was addicted, you know, to heroin. | ||
| Uh and he um and he heard about Ibegain as a tried to just trip on and have some kicks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he stopped and he found himself and just not using opiates anymore. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| The st yeah, uh the origin stories for you know for ibigain um are really fascinating. | ||
| So before that people didn't know that you could use it to kick drug addiction? | ||
| Uh you know, not that much. | ||
| No. | ||
| Well is dru uh what is uh is drug addiction ubiquitous throughout history? | ||
| Is there always been people that are addicted to drugs? | ||
| It's just it when is it when does it get when does it start getting recorded about people with addictions, actual addictions to drugs? | ||
| Yeah, I don't know. | ||
| The yeah, there were you know, there was the idea of addiction in the eighteen hundreds, maybe even earlier. | ||
| It was you know, kind of an American you know, British uh idea. | ||
| Like did they know they were alcoholics in the 1400s. | ||
| Yeah, all kinds. | ||
| I I mean I can't imagine what they were addicted to in the 1400s. | ||
| Scopolamine containing plants, yeah, so yeah, yeah, th you know, the solanacea mandrake and uh scopolamine, isn't that that that dust that they blow up your nose and turn you into a vampire or a zombie rather? | ||
| Uh yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's that it um scopolamine. | |
| Oh yeah, yeah. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| It's um a zombie drug or something. | ||
| Yeah, some sort of a zombie drug. | ||
| Yeah right? | ||
| Isn't that scopolamine? | ||
| Yeah, what well do you know Dennis McKenna? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah, he tells the story of scopolamine uh in Mexico. | ||
| I kind of th I I hope I'm right. | ||
| It's it's a great story. | ||
| Uh he devil's breath, that's right. | ||
| Devil's breath. | ||
| Medication used to treat motion sickness and post operative na nausea and vomiting, but it also does something wacky. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like if you uh take large doses of it that the the devil's breath thing. | ||
| So you can get it in um drama mean. | ||
| That's what drama mean is, right? | ||
| Uh it's an anticholinergic like uh the scopolamine drugs are. | ||
| But isn't like the stuff that makes you less nauseous when you're seasick. | ||
| Like if you isn't that uh like composine. | ||
| Does dramamine have this stuff in it? | ||
| It's not the same? | ||
| Yeah, you know, one is uh sorry. | ||
| Dramamine is oral antihistivine called dimethylhydrenate, while sculpamine is a different prescription only anti-cholingeric medicine. | ||
| Particularly in patch form used to prevent motion sickness. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So they put it in a patch form to cr stop motion sickness, whereas drum bean is the oral thing that stops motion sickness. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| Fentanyl's also in patches. | ||
| That's the like way to take it. | ||
| It is a f weird thing. | ||
| So but scopolamine uh you can get in a patch and it is for motion sickness. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But it's when they blow it up your nose that it's not good. | ||
| Uh yeah, uh well it's really in i uh it's you know the active ingredient in gypsum weed, loco weed. | ||
| And what is that? | ||
| U i i it grows in the southwest there's a lot growing or in loco weed? | ||
| Yeah, New Mexico Gymson weed loco weed. | ||
| Yes, gusko polymen. | ||
| And it will cause you know effects. | ||
| Well, you know, one of my you know patients when I worked at uh the VA in La Jolla Um w you know was an alcoholic w you know back in the day and took gymson weed tea, drank a lot of it, wandered off to the desert two, three days, one of those kind of stories. | ||
| Came back. | ||
| He didn't remember a thing, but he stopped using alcohol. | ||
| He he was brain damage though. | ||
| Uh sorry to say. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Brain damage from that? | ||
| From either being in the desert or from the scopolamine to too much. | ||
| Oh wow. | ||
| Yeah, it's a crazy drug. | ||
| Uh yeah. | ||
| Uh no, i it is uh useful. | ||
| Uh you know, one of the I would rather get motion sickness. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Uh that sounds terrible. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| If you take too much, yeah, or you have a bad reaction to it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What do you think is going on with American health? | ||
| That's a good question. | ||
| Well I've been fascinated by these videos of pregnant women taking Tylenol to to show Trump that they don't believe in what RFK Jr. is saying that somehow another anti-science. | ||
| When this uh science came from Harvard. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| That's where the study came from. | ||
| I mean, that the he's not making things up, and these people are like on TikTok, they're pregnant women taking Tylenol. | ||
| Yeah, I took a lot of well, I'm I mean, if I weren't for you know for Tylenol, I wouldn't be here today. | ||
| For real? | ||
| Well I I mean I do find it quite helpful. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, for you know, for injuries. | ||
| As as you get older, as a lot of people get older. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Yeah, there's pain. | ||
| It's a acetaminophine though, right? | ||
| Which is really toxic, isn't it? | ||
| Well, if you take too much, it can cause so that's what it is, it's like a dose thing. | ||
| So one is fine. | ||
| One's fine. | ||
| Yeah, four is fine, probably. | ||
| After f four you s uh, you know, can upset your stomach. | ||
| Yeah, liver toxicity is possible. | ||
| You know, but if you stay within normal limits, seems to be fine. | ||
| So at least for myself. | ||
| And for you. | ||
| Well, and also in in general they haven't been recalls for, you know. | ||
| And what do you take it for if you're gonna take it? | ||
| Uh pain. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What kind of pain are you getting in? | |
| Feet. | ||
| You know, uh my head hernia repair a while back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, so I find it to be a very helpful drug with no side effects. | ||
| Well, you should definitely be allowed to take it. | ||
| Especially you. | ||
| You know. | ||
| Uh my concern is always I should be allowed to take it. | ||
| People that don't understand that there's a dose that if you go over that it's gonna torture liver and you could die. | ||
| Yeah, it's it's all about dose. | ||
| I I mean microdosing psychedelics completely different or in a lot in quite a few ways than full dose. | ||
| Or the the effects are different. | ||
| Yeah, for sure. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I have in the past. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| While back, um I was having some you know some belly issues and I microdosed ayahuasca for about a month. | ||
| So helpful, very helpful. | ||
| What is every day like? | ||
| Uh microdose in ayahuasca. | ||
| Well, it is a microdose, so I you know like a mic uh it was teeny. | ||
| So it just gave you a just a little peak? | ||
| I wish. | ||
| Nothing? | ||
| Not really. | ||
| I th uh more in the beginning than kind of stretched it out. | ||
| It's it's kinda like coffee, uh like sparkly coffee if you take a little too much. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| Um what do you think would have happened if that 1970 sweeping act didn't take place? | ||
| What do you think the world would look how how much different? | ||
| Have you ever contemplated it? | ||
| How much different would the world before? | ||
| Not really. | ||
| Not at all. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good for you. | |
| Good for you. | ||
| Why waste your time? | ||
| Uh well, I I mean, y you know, when I tried to get my DMT study off the ground, uh I mean that was pretty weird. | ||
| That was you know, two years of just you know, back breaking labor. | ||
| What year was that? | ||
| Where it started? | ||
| Uh I I submitted um the paperwork in September 1988. | ||
| I gave my first dose of DMT in November 1990. | ||
| And I gave a lot of DMT then. | ||
| I went kind of crazy for the next five years. | ||
| And you were doing IV drip slow release, right? | ||
| No, it's a b it was one big dose. | ||
| One big dose IV? | ||
| Yeah, bolus, IV bolus. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So the our high dose was zero point four milligrams per kilogram. | ||
| Oh and the highest dose is now being used for 0.3. | ||
| Nobody has gone back up to 0.4 on a regular basis. | ||
| Yeah, so people really went out there on zero point four, they were pretty scared. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| They weren't sure they were coming back. | ||
| Oh, you weren't sure they were coming back. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That is a fear. | ||
| That's a fear of all psychedelic experiences. | ||
| I don't think you could shut it off. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What is this? | ||
| And is this real just around me all the time and I'm ignoring it? | ||
| Is this real? | ||
| Is this real? | ||
| Are you and are you ignoring it? | ||
| Um boy, that's a terrible state to be in. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Terrible. | |
| Excuse me. | ||
| That's why Yeah, that's why I think you know, DMT ought to be carefully taken. | ||
| I think everything should be carefully taken, especially if you've got something wrong with you already. | ||
| Like if you're self-diagnosing with some really potent stuff, like yeah, yeah, think it can really go south. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I mean, uh how who's who's going to decide that, you know, based on what? | ||
| Well, no one's deciding for you with alcohol. | ||
| You could go fill your bar at home with more than enough to kill yourself with. | ||
| Yeah, don't get started on it. | ||
| Uh yeah. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Like most people can. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Most people if you have like a little bar in your house, like three or four bottles of Jack Daniels, a couple of this, a couple of that, you're dead. | ||
| Drink all that stuff, you're dead. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um have you ever gone through a drinking phase? | ||
| Not a bad drinking phase. | ||
| Uh I don't drink at all anymore. | ||
| Um, but I I will still, if I feel like it, I'll have a glass of wine. | ||
| Or I'll have a margarita. | ||
| I like a nice cabernet, sir. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Um I just like a little red wine sometimes. | ||
| But I've only had like two or three glasses of anything over the last like eight, nine months. | ||
| And even like I didn't even finish the wine. | ||
| It's like I've lost my taste for it. | ||
| I just the the trade-off is not worth it. | ||
| Like I have a lot of fun people in my life and I have a lot of fun without alcohol. | ||
| Like I don't necessarily think it was providing me with the the amount of good versus the amount of negative. | ||
| The the negative outweighed it, especially physically. | ||
| Uh right. | ||
| It's just bad for you physically. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, thankfully I didn't drink in high school. | ||
| I and I kind of made up for a lost time in college. | ||
| And I got really sick a few times. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's rough. | ||
| I just stopped drinking. | ||
| You know, like to that point anyway. | ||
| Well, it's like people are having a good time, you know, and I get it. | ||
| And if you're young and I get it, I get it, I did it too. | ||
| But it's not good for you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| But it's not good for your decision making too, because you then you read the next day you're like, ugh. | ||
| And if you're if you're at that low state of being hung over, you're fucking for sure not putting out great energy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you don't want you don't want to get into that state. | ||
| Or if you you do you want it channeled really really carefully. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh yeah, like I've never been part of a like an ultra-orthodox uh sect, but I think what happens in some of the ultra-orthodox Jewish sects, there's a Lupavitcher uh sect in Brooklyn. | ||
| And the fellow who led that was Schneerson, uh Menachem Schneerson. | ||
| And he really enjoyed drinking. | ||
| He got you know, and inspired. | ||
| And he wanted others to become inspired. | ||
| Yeah, it has to uh you know, some be become a conduit. | ||
| I I think it yeah, kind of differs like with Bukowski, yeah, but like you know, you can think of somebody who loves alcohol. | ||
| First time he first time he got drunk, it was a psychedelic experience, actually. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| In his account he says to himself, I think I've found something very, very important. | ||
| It's kind of hilarious. | ||
| Yeah, uh that was never the effect alcohol had on me. | ||
| I didn't you get you feel good for a while, short period of time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We obviously all differ biologically, but some people it hits a switch that nothing else does. | ||
| Um there's some people love it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it's just it's discounted in the text. | ||
| You shouldn't drink too much. | ||
| It's very clear. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Smart. | |
| Very clear. | ||
| But I'm not sure you shouldn't drink at all. | ||
| Like you should drink if you want to drink. | ||
| And you know, does you know, everybody uh people get real rigid. | ||
| You know, especially if you uh have someone around you that has a problem with alcohol or you have had a problem with alcohol. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, there's a huge uh homeless population in in Albuquerque. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| Alcohol plays somewhat of a role. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, I played a lot more in the Navajo Reservation when I lived in Gallup. | ||
| Yeah, I think people just use and abuse drugs. | ||
| There's also those things, they sound like there's not a lot of opportunity in the places you're describing, right? | ||
| Uh right. | ||
| So if you don't yeah, uh you just want to not feel anything. | ||
| You're outside a reservation. | ||
| Or on one. | ||
| Or on a reservation. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, I'm in the middle of uh the audiobook Empire of the Summer Moon for the second time. | ||
| It's uh it's all about the Comanches and the war between the settlers and the Comanche. | ||
| Oh really? | ||
| Crazy. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I'm in the the middle of this, and and uh I'm thinking like have people always been this horrible and we're just sort of catching up to it now. | ||
| Well, you you know, that's uh you know, that's taken into account in Cain and Abel, the Cain and Abel story thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| The first two children. | ||
| One murders the other. | ||
| So it's start it's it started it started way back. | ||
| It starts way back with the bang. | ||
| And you just go, God, have people always been this awful? | ||
| From the beginning. | ||
| Yeah, from well, you know, there's a line in the text that he's gonna that that you know God is gonna destroy mankind. | ||
| No, no, what does he what what happens here? | ||
| I think he decides people will only live 120 years at the most because their inclination is bad from the get-go. | ||
| And 120 years is enough time to repent and become a better person. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So you give it a hundred and twenty years to you know, deal with what you were born with. | ||
| But this book, this Empire of the Summer Moon, it just makes me think when you think about what life was like for the people that lived here before the European settlers arrived and how quickly everything went away. | ||
| Historically in terms of like the timeline it was only a few hundred years and it was just completely gone. | ||
| Yeah Yeah. | ||
| well the Garden of Eden lost. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There was also, there was a lot of war. | |
| That's the thing that everybody likes to leave out. | ||
| I'm fascinated with Native American culture. | ||
| I'm fascinated with this Comanche civilization that lived here, because this book, Empire of the Summer Moon, is just it's so interesting. | ||
| They were so fierce and they lived right here. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, there's twenty nine Pueblos in New Mexico. | ||
| And you know the Pueblo are peaceful folk. | ||
| They're agricultural. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, that's their you know that's been their heritage. | ||
| The Comanche were not. | ||
| And they w one of the things this book talks about is how a lot of the Apaches were not on horseback. | ||
| And they were, and that they were literally wiping out bands of Apache and forcing them to go to Mexico. | ||
| It's like it's this is always been there's always been once they've had horses, which is really like after the Spaniards got here. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Then they once the Comanches figured out horses, they got really good at it. | ||
| And they were like an impossible barrier to get through this part of the country. | ||
| Yeah, there's mostly Navajo around where I lived in Gallup. | ||
| And they were nomads. | ||
| They raised sheep. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm. | |
| Spon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| And then on the eastern side, a lot more agriculture, right? | ||
| It's just all the space into the sound. | ||
| The amount of time that it took for everything to get pushed where if you're a Native American and you you're you know, it's 2025 for you and you're living on a rent of reservation, you're like, whoa. | ||
| What happened? | ||
| You start going into the history of it, like how many people died? | ||
| Like what happened? | ||
| Is is there Comanche presence in in Texas? | ||
| A lot of signs, I'll tell you that. | ||
| A lot of the signs are like Quanta Parker Lane. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well w well, they always name things after what used to be there. | ||
| Well, this is all that area. | ||
| There's a lot of Comanche were in this area, but it went all the way down to Oklahoma. | ||
| It was uh just uh a barrier that you couldn't get through. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well yeah, it was fun living in Gallup. | ||
| It was mostly in Avajo. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, very low key. | ||
| They come to terms with being, you know, defeated. | ||
| Part of part of it. | ||
| It's crazy though, isn't it? | ||
| Well I mean it like had that ha all those things had to take place in order to get New York City. | ||
| Like yeah. | ||
| So you have to decide what do you like more? | ||
| New York City or you want to go back in time and say, don't sell this. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| You know, what do you like more? | ||
| Do you like pizza? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Do you like do you go to uh I I like pizza. | |
| I do too. | ||
| Like to be able to go to a nice nightclub, have a drink, go to a nice steak dinner in New York City. | ||
| Or give it all back, give it all back. | ||
| Go back in time, because hey hey guys, you're getting robbed. | ||
| Don't sell this for whatever it was. | ||
| You can't halt progress. | ||
| How much did they buy New York for? | ||
| Twenty-seven dollars. | ||
| Really? | ||
| In jewelry. | ||
| Fake jewelry even. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow, what a deal. | ||
| Or forty-five dollars. | ||
| What a great what a great origin story for a villainous country. | ||
| That their number one city was made through a swindle deal. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Where it was fake jewelry. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| Well, that's where I I went to medical school is the Bronx. | ||
| Well, you're from New Jersey. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Yeah, I'm from the Burns. | ||
| That's where I was born, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I trained in the Bronx. | ||
| I I didn't get to Jersey much. | ||
| New Jersey's a crazy place because everybody thinks of it as just being city, 'cause like it's right near the city. | ||
| Like Hackensack and Hoboken and stuff like that, but it's like mostly rural. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Mostly it's it's got bears all over the place in it. | ||
| There's some really nice coastal parks. | ||
| Yeah, oh yeah. | ||
| The shore is awesome. | ||
| You know, small doses. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| It's nice to go down there. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh so the Bronx was great training. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh it's what it's like the modern Orthodox you know, university in the country. | ||
| Oh, that's where it is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And uh it it's the m it's the medical school of Yeshiva. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm. | |
| It's called Einstein. | ||
| And uh, s and the Bronx. | ||
| It was great training. | ||
| We could do anything. | ||
| We could do everything because they were you know, it was pretty poorly staffed in some t in some ways in the seventies. | ||
| Yeah, so we had a lot of uh you know duty. | ||
| When did you first even have the idea to create a study of people doing IV DMT? | ||
| Like when did you even though it seems like a good one? | ||
| Because w what it was a how do you get to the point where you're asking the government to let you do this? | ||
| And then you get 'em actually to say yes. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| That's it was the war on drugs that funded our study. | ||
| Uh well, it it all kind of came to a head uh with Terrence McKenna. | ||
| We were up in his loft one afternoon. | ||
| And uh instead of saying DMT was a really great drug and ask for money, we said DMT was a really dangerous drug and asked for money. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh I think you've told me this before. | |
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But it's a good story. | ||
| It's a yeah, yeah. | ||
| We just want to study it. | ||
| It's not good or bad. | ||
| It's clever because it's not you're not lying. | ||
| Uh no, no. | ||
| I knew what I was talking about too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like I'd done neuroendochrinology research with melatonin, circadian rhythm research. | ||
| Yeah, I was a bona fide investigator. | ||
| I I just asked simple questions. | ||
| Could we give it? | ||
| What happens when you give it? | ||
| DMT is really strange. | ||
| Uh the r the role it's played in my life almost c I've been complaining for years, uh that um well not complaining for years, but uh I don't know, I'm I'm more skeptical of the psychedelic experience than I was before. | ||
| I don't think it's uh it's uh panacea. | ||
| Well I I th I think it is a panacea, that's the problem. | ||
| Um I think there's an issue with spiritual narcissism. | ||
| That's uh a thing that sort of grips people when they start doing it a lot and then their identity is wrapped up in doing it a lot. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Like uh is a little bit of that that happens with folks. | ||
| I th with DMT in particular. | ||
| Is it or ayahuasca? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Like uh about once the once a year I get an email saying something in the subject line, your book and my son. | ||
| Yeah, and they say that they you know just smoked way too much DMT. | ||
| They were in the hospital or in prison. | ||
| No, Jesus. | ||
| Yeah, they just well it became messianic, like you were like you said, like you believe you know more than anyone and if they just listened. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| False Messiah. | ||
| Well, that's you know, there's some interesting stories of false messiahs. | ||
| The w you know, the like at least within Judaism, Messiah has not come yet, as opposed to Christianity, where Jesus was Messiah. | ||
| And so what is cr so what is Judaism's version of what happened with Jesus? | ||
| He wasn't the Messiah, so he died, he didn't get resurrected. | ||
| Well, uh you know, he may have been resurrected, but resurrection occurs in the Hebrew Bible, so that's not unique. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But what what is their take on it? | ||
| Um well, end of story, he's killed. | ||
| And that's it. | ||
| You don't come back. | ||
| Uh no, not really. | ||
| Not within the Hebrew Bible. | ||
| That's part of the New Testament, the Christian Bible. | ||
| Oh, oh, that's one thing I wanted to bring up is old Testament is a term that's a little disparaging in a way. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is it? | |
| It's been replaced by Hebrew Bible. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When was that? | ||
| It's been building. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So is this like a pronoun thing? | ||
| It prefers this? | ||
| Uh it f it wants to be identified as a Hebrew Bible. | ||
| They prefer it. | ||
| They I was saying it. | ||
| Yeah, it could be either. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um, like I was thinking of you uh well, you know how people put in parenthetical phrases, you know, uh he him. | ||
| Yeah, I th I was I was thinking of doing that for myself once, it and it. | ||
| It and it's yeah, be it would be gender neutral. | ||
| Sounds good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well that's one of the Or just not ever. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| So you know uh um I was thinking about you know you know does God have genitals and you know probably not. | ||
| Doesn't seem like it it's the likely way we were made. | ||
| But there's probably some sort of a interdimensional psychedelic equivalent of intercourse that higher beings have some interaction with each other. | ||
| Uh I think it was the optimal form. | ||
| The optimal form? | ||
| Yeah, to contain a certain consciousness and do particular things. | ||
| It's an ideal form. | ||
| It w was ideal. | ||
| Uh so that's you know why it took that particular unique shape. | ||
| You know, form follows function, things like that. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well I'm I'm I got confused there. | ||
| What are you referring to? | ||
| Oh, well, you know, the specific well, y I think you you were um I was referring to man being made in God's image. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Yeah, with with genitals. | ||
| Oh, right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah, but but I think it you know it in the animal kingdom, uh things evolve to do certain things. | ||
| They have form and function which you know combined determine their range of behaviors. | ||
| So I think in humans it's sort of was the optimal form as well. | ||
| Same way, perhaps. | ||
| What do you think happened when human beings had this doubling of the brain size over a period of two million years? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What do you think that was that true? | |
| Supposedly. | ||
| Yeah, I think so. | ||
| I think it was yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It sounds like a crazy little expansion. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I mean you could look at it, you know, evolutionarily, you know, biologically, you know, theologically you can look at it too as you know finally being endowed with you know a human spirit. | ||
| You know, there's multiple spirits. | ||
| Uh you know, and even in the Hebrew Bible, there's multiple spirits. | ||
| There's so as the brain expands in size, you develop a human spirit? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That human spirit allows for divine communication. | ||
| At least that's how the theory goes. | ||
| So it's the you know, the breathing in of of the soul to man by God and it's in in man's creation. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So ultimately we're gonna get to be a gray. | ||
| We're gonna have a big giant head and we're not gonna need to talk 'cause we're we're gonna do it telepathically. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You know, telepathically you think uh people being able to read the mind is a good thing. | ||
| It will uh be a good thing once that that happens, or if it it can happen. | ||
| I think it will be a thing. | ||
| And like all things, it will have good aspects to it and bad aspects to it. | ||
| I think reading people's minds will be very enlightening. | ||
| You're gonna learn a lot more about how people actually think versus what they project. | ||
| You're gonna you're gonna be able to see people's motivations. | ||
| You're gonna be able to still lies and we might even have a universal visual language that they develop. | ||
| Well we might all be able to adopt it really quickly and kids probably will jump right on board and they'll be literate in it before we are. | ||
| Well what about psychological and bivalence? | ||
| You know, loving someone one moment, hating them another. | ||
| Well that's you know what happens if you you know tune in to one at one moment. | ||
| You're convinced that's that's you know, solely the case. | ||
| If you're ambivalent, all ambivalence is a real thing. | ||
| And you're, you know, you have an unconscious too, where things are kind of stored away psychologically. | ||
| Yeah, I'm not saying it's good. | ||
| It it might be hard. | ||
| Well, I I don't know if if there is some way where We link up and we can communicate completely telepathically. | ||
| It could be really weird. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it will be a thing. | ||
| That's my point. | ||
| It's like it's n it's we're gonna have to navigate it like we navigated making books. | ||
| Like we navigated everything else. | ||
| Like if we want to stay alive, we've got to recognize that there's some shit going down. | ||
| There's some shit going down right now. | ||
| And there's free will isn't there, you know, forever. | ||
| Well, I mean, in this uh Or is there free will the determinism people don't think there is. | ||
| Well, it feels as if there's free will. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We respect free will, so it's probably a real thing. | ||
| We expect we we we respect a person who's like been a drunk their whole life who puts down the bottle and starts running around the block. | ||
| We respect that's a real thing. | ||
| Free will is there's part of free will. | ||
| It's like there's something there. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| There's something there. | ||
| You make choices. | ||
| You don't know why you make choices, but you make choices. | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| There's a lot of factors in why you make choices, and it's not 100% determinism and it's not 100% free will. | ||
| It's kind of there's a soup. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There's a very good thing. | |
| Yeah, well, to the soup. | ||
| You know, to the extent that you can exert free will. | ||
| You know, you have to kind of do the best you can. | ||
| Yeah, you gotta do your best you can. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, and even if we're uploaded into the cloud, let's say I mean, how's that time gonna be spent? | ||
| Good question. | ||
| What is I mean, yeah, are we even capable of imagining what we're talking about? | ||
| Are we so crude in our understanding of what's to come in the next five, ten, whatever years that we're just we're just guessing we're silly. | ||
| We're like writing a bad science fiction movie from the nineteen eighties about the year two thousand. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| You remember those like space nineteen ninety-nine? | ||
| Well well, you know, it's it's the one god and the golden rule. | ||
| I think that's what we'll be you know, left with ethically, you know, how what the basis of our decision making will be. | ||
| I've always wondered if we're in a race to avoid catastrophe. | ||
| And that's one of the reasons why we're so like hyper focused on accelerating with technology, is that we kind of always recognize that this species is on a a race to avoid natural catastrophe. | ||
| Like there's just so much potential for natural natural catastrophe, whether it's super volcanoes, asteroid impact, so many different things have like almost wiped us out to nothing. | ||
| That it's like might be a part of the reason why there's this like mad rush to make better and better and better technology. | ||
| It's almost like a uh a game. | ||
| Like, can you get to the final boss? | ||
| Can your species survive and figure out a way to stop the rock from space? | ||
| Yeah, the the footsteps of the Messiah. | ||
| That's what uh that's called. | ||
| I mean, you you want to be at the round uh you want to be around at the time of the Messiah, but not really, because things have to get so bad. | ||
| That's one model of you know, the end of times. | ||
| There's also a lot of people that don't recognize that being a a human being on Earth is being a passenger in an organic spaceship going through the universe. | ||
| Like there there are real celestial events that they have to keep their eyes on, which you know you haven't experienced in your life, so you're like, eh. | ||
| But no, there's there's giant rocks that killed the dinosaurs, and they're still floating around, same size rocks. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| And they can't stop them. | ||
| They don't know how to stop 'em yet. | ||
| Like don't listen to any of these fucking people. | ||
| Oh, if we saw it, we would do this and do that and sleep tight at night. | ||
| No, no, no, no, no, no, no. | ||
| No, if there was some gigantic state-sized chunk of metal flying through the galaxy, we would have a real problem. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh mm, it might wipe out all of humanity. | ||
| Yeah, it might wipe out all of humanity. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it probably came really close to doing that a few times in history. | ||
| That's what I think. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's the only thing that makes sense. | ||
| If we know that we we're hit all the time, we we all accept the fact that the Yucatan impact, that's what killed the dinosaurs, and there's been a bunch of them throughout history. | ||
| We've seen we f we find craters everywhere. | ||
| Everyone knows that we've been hit multiple times, the Tangouska thing in Russia. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Where it flattened this enormous patch of forest, it's still flattened. | ||
| Have you been watching uh season two of uh Um uh Um of Grand uh Hancock's uh ancient apocalypse? | ||
| I didn't watch season two yet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| I watched season one though. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What's season two about? | ||
| Uh it's uh it's like the Americas, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, the Americas are crazy. | ||
| Yeah, I like Graham. | ||
| Oh, he's the best. | ||
| Yeah, he's hard working. | ||
| Oh, he loves what he does, man. | ||
| He really does. | ||
| And the fact that he's finally been over all these attacks, he's finally been vindicated and people are starting to accept more and more things are probably a lot older than we want to believe. | ||
| And especially after go backly Tapi. | ||
| That kind of like that popped the cork on everything, and everyone's like, okay, well, this has definitely been buried for eleven thousand years. | ||
| So what this is kind of crazy. | ||
| We didn't know they could do that back then. | ||
| Well, before coming out here, I asked Chat GPT, you know, how old are some of the stories written down in the in the text in the Hebrew Bible? | ||
| And at least according to Chat GPT is 10,000 years ago. | ||
| You know, so my God. | ||
| You know, something may have happened at that time that uh makes sense. | ||
| Yeah, that's a very interesting finding. | ||
| Oh, yeah, yeah, Sodom and Gomorrah, that's a great story. | ||
| Um I'm working on this translation of the Hebrew Bible. | ||
| I've got a sub stack now. | ||
| I've been putting out things every week, a chapter a week. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| On on my translation of the Bible. | ||
| It's like a thousand pages right now of commentary about the language and uh you know, the grammar, you know, the meaning, that the what's called the plain meaning of the text. | ||
| Like there was a Noah with three sons and um went on the ark. | ||
| Yeah, so uh yeah, that's like my big project, but I like to do a smaller one about uh Sodom and Gomorrah and the figure of Lot. | ||
| I think that's a really incredible story. | ||
| I've spent about uh uh maybe two to three weeks looking at that, you know, like a lot, his virgin daughters, the men circling his house, uh they're asking to know him. | ||
| He ends up in you know, in a cave with his two virgin daughters, they get him drunk and he sleeps with them. | ||
| Uh or you know, they lie with him anyway. | ||
| Yeah, and outcome two kids at a certain point, and they become very important. | ||
| You know, later on they're the beginning of the Messianic line. | ||
| You know, so it's a very intricate you know, tale with uh a very uh I think you can make some cool conversations between some of the main personages and the uh in the narrative. | ||
| You know, there's a book called The Red Tent. | ||
| Can I ask you about the the lot? | ||
| Like how how old was that story? | ||
| Well, that must be well, it's an explanation of Sodom and Gomorrah, which is the you know, uh around the Dead Sea. | ||
| You know, there was a conflagration of some sort there. | ||
| Uh um have any of your guests spoken about you know Sodom, you know, w you know w w what actually happened around the Dead Sea. | ||
| I it was quite catastrophic. | ||
| Uh well tell us. | ||
| Tell us. | ||
| Well, the story Um of Lot, yeah. | ||
| I mean there was fire and sulfur pouring down on Sodom and Gomorrah. | ||
| Yeah, it was the end of the plain. | ||
| Yeah, so that's uh the southern part of you know the of the Dead Sea. | ||
| You know, it it is a Dead Sea because of his high salt concentrations. | ||
| It was kind of you know closed off from the coast. | ||
| Uh yeah, so it's at least a description of you know what took place. | ||
| What do you think it's describing? | ||
| Uh well, I mean, you know, m my perspective is it actually happened. | ||
| Yeah, but people think of volcano. | ||
| It's some kind of volcanic activity. | ||
| What totally same sounds like a volcano, right? | ||
| And one we know that there's been a bunch of those that uh have almost wiped people out entirely at certain points. | ||
| The Toba volcano, you know that one? | ||
| No. | ||
| We got down to um I think the we've looked this up before, but uh I want to say they think we might have gotten down to just a few thousand people. | ||
| On the whole planet. | ||
| Like seventy thousand years ago. | ||
| Seventy thousand years ago there was a massive super volcano uh that went off and it you know it plunged the earth probably into nuclear winter and they think that our genetic line entirely of the human race on earth came from this few thousand survivors. | ||
| Joe, can we take a quick one? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yes. | ||
| We'll be right back, folks. | ||
| Seriously. | ||
| We're back. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Explain what you mean by that. | ||
| Like that these things are happening in an alternative dimension. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, I think they're happening in an alternative dimension. | ||
| Like when you smoke DMT, you return to the same place each time. | ||
| So there seems to be some reality, some DMT world uh that people enter into. | ||
| And it's uh y one of my volunteers, uh one of the the subjects in the DMT research, um he he got a big dose one day and then a few months later he you got another big dose and he he said that it was very interesting. | ||
| He said things have just you know continued a pace since his first exposure and his first you know entrance into that state and things had had you know gone on uh in the meantime and he r um reentered uh you know that world. | ||
| So in that way there's uh you know, in that same manner the world of the Hebrew Bible early on, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Noah, the Tower of Babel, all that took place. | ||
| at some different level of reality, which gradually made its way into ours. | ||
| And once it made it w its way into ours, there's the archaeological evidence, you know, the first temple, second temple, and so on. | ||
| Um so there is a transition between uh you know, our our world and that world kind of merged. | ||
| But in the in the in the beginning, um it was an alternative dimension. | ||
| The the same God, I think, but but you know, different dimensions. | ||
| So did is this your own personal conclusion? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well well, you know, uh w uh when I was on the show last time, y uh you're asking if I believe those things took place. | ||
| And uh my answer then was I bel you know, I take it as if it were true. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Uh and then I started to think, you know, how I would do that. | ||
| You know, like in what world would that be true? | ||
| It'd be a different world. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I feel like I've always believed that they were trying to record something. | ||
| I just didn't always trust that human beings were completely honest with their recollection of events. | ||
| So that there's something that they were trying to write down. | ||
| But was it really coming from God? | ||
| Was it whether are these accurate events? | ||
| What what exactly happened with Noah and the Ark? | ||
| What it what really happened? | ||
| Well, you know, three stories. | ||
| You know, three you know, three levels. | ||
| You know, two of each, then seven if you know what one one or two one pair or you know, seven pairs uh of birds. | ||
| Well, of every living thing. | ||
| Yeah, but like how's he feeding them? | ||
| Animals eat other animals, the whole thing's nuts. | ||
| You would need a lot more rabbits. | ||
| You need so witty animals to keep just the lions alive. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It doesn't make any sense. | ||
| How's he getting them all from all over the world and do his stupid vote? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| There's so many things that are wrong. | ||
| But the story of him being told that some shit is go about to go down, and you probably should, you know, find some way to restart your version of civilization somewhere. | ||
| There's probably multiple ver like the flood myth that we, you know, whatever you want to call it, the the the the stories of the flood that you get from Epic of Gilgamesh that you get from Noah. | ||
| There's not it's not just those. | ||
| There's many, many different cultures all throughout history have a flood story, right? | ||
| So it's probably likely that some crazy shit went down. | ||
| Uh you know, there may have been you know, there most likely was a f a flood. | ||
| Uh yeah, you know, so what do you learn from it? | ||
| You know, like uh how do you do better or on what b on what basis do you rebuild? | ||
| You know, so I think you know there's you know different models. | ||
| You know, the uh the biblical one is interesting 'cause b because um you know, it's a it's um you know, lineage, you know, from Adam to Noah, right to Abraham, you know, Isaac and uh Jacob and the tribes and now. | ||
| So when you talk about things happening in an alternative dimension, like is that what you think like the birth of mankind is as well, like Adam and Eve. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I mean Pull this microphone up. | |
| Okay, I'm sorry. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh well, you you know, the creation story. | ||
| Um man was created on the sixth day. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Along with mammals. | |
| Yeah, it's a cool story. | ||
| It's you know, stages. | ||
| Yeah, like uh you know, people are uh say, well, you know, seven days that's unlikely, like the you know that your creation took place seven times twenty-four, I don't know, hundred and forty eight you know, something like uh one hundred and forty-eight hours, one hundred and sixty-eight hours, the whole world was you know, was created. | ||
| Uh yeah, but it's broken into stages, you know, seven stages. | ||
| Uh you know, which is one of the translations of the word that is usually translated day. | ||
| It could also mean stage. | ||
| It's the word Yom. | ||
| It can mean st either a day, a period of time, a stage. | ||
| Uh so that's uh you know, that's the answer that makes you sense to me about you know the seven day story of creation. | ||
| Yeah, so you know, m man was was created on the sixth day and then was placed in the Garden of Eden and you know, those events took place. | ||
| You know, the stories themselves are just you know they're the you know, they're written down and so people have been studying them for thousands of years. | ||
| Who do you think Lilith was? | ||
| No mention of Lilith in the Bible. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Where's the story of Lilith emerge? | ||
| Well it comes from what's called Midrash. | ||
| What's that? | ||
| Uh comes from a root D R Shah Daraush. | ||
| Uh it means to I don't know, explicate, to expand upon, to investigate. | ||
| You know, so what happened after Adam and Eve sinned, you know, did they have sex again? | ||
| And they do have it uh Cain and Abel and the ensuing stories, and you know, then there's a third son, Shait, who uh is the inheritor of Adam's good uh uh of his traits, his good traits and bad traits. | ||
| He's like God as well. | ||
| So you know there's uh a distinct lineage that uh is you know spelled out. | ||
| Uh l you know, Lilith was was uh a demon, you know that uh she slept with Adam after the sin of eating from the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. | ||
| You know, so there's a uh a s a story that that bib that built up around y um you know the biblical story that they were separated, Adam and Eve were you know, were separated for a long period. | ||
| And you you know, so who d was Adam sleeping with? | ||
| Well, it was expanded in the midrash that there is a demoness named Lilith who slept with Adam for me, I don't know, a couple hundred years. | ||
| Uh and then Adam and Eve reconciled. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| So um you know so Lilith is you know, she you know, she doesn't appear in the text of the Hebrew Bible, uh as such. | ||
| You know, so uh nobody know you know the there's a mythology that's grown around Lilith as well. | ||
| Well, isn't there some festival, some some music festival called the Logan Festival? | ||
| Lilith Fair. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| that's named after the spirit or the demoness who's You sure it wasn't like a lady named Lilith she came up with We sure? | ||
| It was her neighbor. | ||
| Lilith uh Swift Smith. | ||
| Um so what was the reason why the book of Enoch like so it was not included in all the versions of the the Bible by a decision of like how many people? | ||
| It was like a few rabbis, right? | ||
| Um well the canon uh you're talking about there's twenty-two books in the Hebrew Bible. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And there there's certain versions of it that they found with the Dead Sea Scrolls like the book of Isaiah that's identical verbatim, which is really amazing, right? | ||
| Uh yeah, yeah. | ||
| And there's Aramaic translations. | ||
| Aramaic was the spoken language back back then back there. | ||
| But the book of Enoch was a part of all that, the the stuff they found in Qumran too, right? | ||
| Um Th there m I'm j I'm just not sure. | ||
| Well, I s I I tried learning about the Book of Enoch. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um there's only an Ethiopic version, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh well have you looked into the Book of Enoch? | ||
| Yeah, well I told you I've been listening to it on audio. | ||
| But uh Ethiopia is a fascinating place. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right? | |
| Because like that's the place where Graham Hancock started getting interested in the possibility that they have the Ark of the Covenant. | ||
| Right. | ||
| They're supposed to be a tribe in Ethiopia. | ||
| And they all get cataracts and the people that are predicting it, they only live like a certain amount of time and then they die. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like if that's true, if any of that's true. | ||
| If any of that's true. | ||
| That if the if somehow or another there's people on earth today that have an ark of the covenant. | ||
| Um how could you keep that a secret? | ||
| That's the craziest thing to be even allowed to keep a secret. | ||
| Yeah, it's one of those things you can't even imagine. | ||
| If they open up a door and like there it is. | ||
| Oh like like from Raiders of the Lost Ark, melts your face off. | ||
| Um well, it would contain the Ten Commandments. | ||
| Yo. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, the original Ten Commandment. | ||
| Well, yeah, the original Ten Commandments. | ||
| Well, what do you think these guys are guarding in Ethiopia where they're getting cataracts? 'Cause when Graham describes it, you're like, if you're telling me the truth, and I think you are, because you've never lied to me yet. | ||
| If you're telling me the truth, these people that are guarding this place that supposedly has the Ark of the Covenant are all getting like radiation sickness. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um Well, yeah, the Ark is hidden. | ||
| I mean, that's what is you know said in the Hebrew Bible is that it's hidden. | ||
| So we just don't know what happened. | ||
| It still has been it hasn't been discovered yet. | ||
| So it might be in Ethiopia, God only knows. | ||
| It's just the craziest story ever. | ||
| Because if it is true, if this one church has the Ark of the Covenant, like, hey guys, let us get a look at it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I I hope they got it right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well they should definitely make sure someone doesn't steal it. | ||
| You know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well the you know, the Ten Commandments. | ||
| You know, that's appearing in p in in I'm at public schools now. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I I had a guy, um, James Tallerico on to talk about that actually, who's a very uh a staunch Christian and thinks it's a terrible idea to have the Ten Commandments in classrooms. | ||
| Why? | ||
| You're forcing it on them. | ||
| He's like we we sh we shouldn't d do it that way. | ||
| And and certainly not do it in a way where you're only gonna have the Ten Commandments and you're not gonna have anything about Buddhism and you're not gonna have anything about Mus Islam, you're not gonna have anything about Baptist or what you know, fill in the blank. | ||
| Mormons fill in the blank. | ||
| You know, Scientologists. | ||
| You'd have to have everything. | ||
| You have to just keep going forever and ever and ever. | ||
| And then splinter groups. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| So he's got a good RD. | ||
| I I mean I think he's right. | ||
| I think they should stop doing that. | ||
| If you want to teach it in a classroom that someone applies for, that's great. | ||
| But like putting it on the wall of every class seems kind of insane. | ||
| Apparently he was saying that it's just a couple of different gentlemen in Texas that are like super wealthy and super Christian and they want this to be like a theocracy. | ||
| Unfortunately. | ||
| Where have we heard that before? | ||
| Uh in the middle ages. | ||
| Yeah, baby. | ||
| Well, I just think it's what happens when people get a shit ton of money and a shit ton of power and they start getting older. | ||
| They need a sport. | ||
| They need to take up a take up a game that fascinates them instead of trying to like global world dominate. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's just people get to positions of extreme wealth and power and they just want to manipulate things and make more money. | ||
| And they want to do it forever and ever and ever. | ||
| And they can't. | ||
| You only live to be a hundred and twenty. | ||
| If everything goes perfect. | ||
| Maybe today you might be able to if you can make it to like if you can make it to ninety today, I bet you could live a lot longer. | ||
| If you live to ninety. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like if you can I've I've lived way older than you know than my father. | ||
| And so I think uh yeah, I I think I'll live a while longer. | ||
| I I married a young woman. | ||
| That helps. | ||
| I need to stay you know, fit. | ||
| You know that actually does help. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's been studies that show that men that date younger women, they have more active lives, they feel healthier. | ||
| I'm more active. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it could be those are the kind of women that are interested in dating that kind of guy. | ||
| I just don't know. | ||
| It's a very yeah. | ||
| I I I don't know how it works. | ||
| Um the kind of guys that are more active and healthy would also be the kind of guys that would want to date younger women, so it's a bio buy a sample group, right? | ||
| Yeah, one of my analysts uh uh said it was a mystery. | ||
| She had no idea, and she'd been seeing patients for like fifty years. | ||
| She has she said, you know, I have no idea, it's a mystery. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| And why people get together. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well I think whatever makes you happy. | ||
| Well, that's it. | ||
| You know, that's you know, that's the book of Ecclesiastes. | ||
| Uh it's about, you know, it's emptiness, emptiness, it's all emptiness. | ||
| You know, but uh at near the end you should make your wife happy and uh eat and drink and be merry while you're alive. | ||
| What do you think of that? | ||
| It's good advice. | ||
| Solid advice if I was living two thousand years ago, I'd probably say the same thing. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's no medicine, you have no antibiotics, there's no orthopedic surgeons that are gonna put your knee back together again. | ||
| Yeah, I'd say that too. | ||
| Yeah, it is bad when you have one doctor for every organ system. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They didn't know anything. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| That's nuts. | ||
| I mean, how many people died of infections back then? | ||
| We're w what just that alone. | ||
| That's extended life life like just antibiotics alone. | ||
| It's extended lifespan so much because so many people that would have probably died got got healthy again. | ||
| So many people. | ||
| And those people can maybe figure out some new way to bridge this gap and stop these viruses and stop this and stop that. | ||
| And then we just keep getting better at it until we eventually get to the point where we're living as long as Noah. | ||
| Six hundred years for Noah. | ||
| And that's what probably when God gets fed up. | ||
| He's like, enough. | ||
| Well you fucking animals. | ||
| Maybe that's like maybe we're gonna repeat that process. | ||
| Maybe we're gonna like figure out some awesome new peptides to keep you alive for five hundred years and everyone's gonna be a dick to everybody else. | ||
| Uh and then eventually God'll just have to drown us again. | ||
| Um in uh I'm in college, uh, we had to read a book about uh the funeral home industry in Southern California. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I read uh uh it's this little novel by Altus Huxley for Many a Summer Dies of Swan. | ||
| It's about these people who live forever by eating the intestinal microbiome of carp. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh wow. | |
| And they become like carp in a l in a lot of ways. | ||
| And I tried to you know get into one of these funeral homes, like you know, uh asked to be uh I asked to interview them to you s see you know what people you know you know did after death. | ||
| Uh and you know never heard back. | ||
| Um one of those you know crazy college stories uh about um looking into the funeral home industry. | ||
| Uh you know, which is uh I don't know, uh that's pretty big. | ||
| Yeah, it's a weird business. | ||
| You get the business of taking care of bodies. | ||
| And you don't don't really have a lot of options. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Like you're not l like if someone dies, I don't think you're are you just allowed to let them fertilize some plants. | ||
| Are you allowed to do that? | ||
| Yeah, I I I you know like I do have to put them in formaldehyde, do you have to do all that stuff? | ||
| Uh I mean I you did an autopsy on a cadaver, you know, and uh um back in the day. | ||
| Open people up and look at them. | ||
| Well, then there's you know, surgery, which you go through as well. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| That was an odd pause. | ||
| I was like, where are we going with this conversation? | ||
| I know. | ||
| Well, I love the Hebrew Bible. | ||
| I sp I spent all my time in it. | ||
| Just the weirdest thing there is. | ||
| Like Do you do you um have any idea why the book of Enoch was supposedly excluded from being included in the Bible? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Seems to be some debate about that, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I know. | ||
| There's uh yeah, there was uh I think the Dead Sea Scroll community used the Book of Enoch. | ||
| Yeah, it was like their Bible. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Very strange. | ||
| Well, the thing about the Book of Enoch is really, you know, g very psychedelic. | ||
| Uh but there's not that much uh like I don't think there's much in it as far as you know, Judaism itself. | ||
| I mean, it's that discussion of the righteous being rewarded and the evil being punished, the evil people being punished. | ||
| But you don't really learn what it means to be righteous. | ||
| And you don't really learn in from the book of Enoch what it's meant to be evil. | ||
| Um you don't know how yeah, there isn't all that much information, I don't think in there. | ||
| It's it's historical and it's really weird astronomical stuff too. | ||
| Um but I think um it it may not have been included in the tech in the Hebrew Bible because there weren't any ethical teachings. | ||
| Uh in c that one that that could be uh you know had by reading it. | ||
| No ethical teachings that could be had by reading it. | ||
| What do you mean by that? | ||
| Yeah, I mean you w one of the essences of Judaism I think is monot is ethical monotheism. | ||
| Yeah, that's where you know there's the you know the golden rule and there's one God. | ||
| Yeah, it's so it's ethical m monotheism. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Um where were we? | |
| Where were we? | ||
| Yeah, just just then. | ||
| Um we were talking about the Hebrew Bible and we were talking about what else were we talking about? | ||
| We were talking why why Enoch was why the book of Enoch was in the Dead Sea Scrolls community, but it wasn't accepted later. | ||
| Um but some parts of the Dead Sea Scrolls like the book of Isaiah, right? | ||
| That was the one that was found to be the oldest version of it that was verbatim. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, yeah, it I think it's just you know it was too psychedelic. | ||
| And it it was a too psychedelic. | ||
| Yeah, I think uh uh I mean at least in Ezekiel, let's say, which is comparable, you know, Daniel too, it's quite psychedelic. | ||
| Um those were some ethical you know, some historical narrative. | ||
| But imagine making that call. | ||
| Imagine making that call. | ||
| How how long ago? | ||
| Right, a long time ago. | ||
| To take that story out. | ||
| I don't I'm not buying this one, guys. | ||
| Leave it out. | ||
| Meanwhile, that's the one that's the most compelling to me. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| So what what what do you like about the book of Enoch? | ||
| It was just so bizarre. | ||
| It's very 'cause it makes the whole thing, it's like, oh, okay, now I get the big story. | ||
| The whole story's crazy. | ||
| And the origin story. | ||
| The the Book of Enoch, like as it starts, like in the very first chapter, you're like, wait, what's going on? | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| Fornication with humans and the a race of giants? | ||
| Like what? | ||
| What are you guys describing? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Things coming down and watchers? | ||
| What are you guys talking about? | ||
| Like what was this? | ||
| This is so left field of the rest of the Bible. | ||
| But it was included in the same like those clay pots that they found in Qumran. | ||
| It was in there too. | ||
| Just you don't know what to believe. | ||
| Like what happened there? | ||
| Well, yeah, you you you might not not know what to believe, but uh you can also believe in one um way of doing it as well. | ||
| One way of doing it? | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| As long as you don't get doctrine error. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| You just do it yourself. | ||
| Well, when I think about it, I just go blank. | ||
| I just try to imagine. | ||
| Like, what are they even describing? | ||
| Like what what does any of that stuff mean? | ||
| It just seems so alien. | ||
| There's watchers and they mate with humans and they create the Nephilim giants that consume and destroy the earth. | ||
| Like just so imagine if that was left into the Bible and they taught that in school, you'd be like, what happened? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It sounds completely crazy. | ||
| Yeah, it was a mistake. | ||
| Yeah, that's why there is the flood. | ||
| The work was filled with the violence of the Nephilim. | ||
| I believe it. | ||
| The reason of the flood. | ||
| I mean, look, if we're this size, you know, and we have so many problems with each other. | ||
| Imagine something that's like triple the size of us that's running around with us, just picking us up and beating us over the head with each other. | ||
| Yeah, you know, one of the figures in the text is uh Og and Sihon, uh who are the kings of the Amirites uh in the land before the Hebrews take over. | ||
| And uh you know they were giants that they're believed to be giants. | ||
| Uh they talk about how the you know bed of one of these kings, Ogur Sihon, was like nine feet long or something. | ||
| Yeah, you know, so there were a c a couple still still alive back then. | ||
| So do you think those are real humans? | ||
| There were giants. | ||
| So you think they were real giants for sure. | ||
| Are you a hundred percent convinced that giants roamed the earth? | ||
| Like there was fifteen foot tall humans? | ||
| Monstrous humans? | ||
| It m may not have occurred. | ||
| Well, that that's the um reason that I think that there's some alternative universe that's as real as this one, which was the yes the site of the stories. | ||
| So when you say there's an alternative universe that's as real as this one, do you think we dance back and forth between possible universes? | ||
| Do you think we're always in the constant same universe? | ||
| Or do you think like this concept of parallel universes or alternative universes, that these you go back and forth between these? | ||
| Uh now? | ||
| No, I think they're they're pretty well separated. | ||
| Don't you? | ||
| So you think that the world was a different place back then and that the the doorway to go back and forth was easier to traverse? | ||
| Uh it was one directional and it kind of was one level of reality s kind of you know, segueing into this one. | ||
| So do you think these things involved psychedelics while they were doing this? | ||
| While they were writing all this stuff down? | ||
| Uh no. | ||
| No. | ||
| Well, it it I think it involved being attuned to a level, you know, that level of of reality. | ||
| Yeah, which would be mediated through DMT in some ways. | ||
| The visions would be mediated through DMT. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You wonder what's possible too if you're living in a world like we we can't even imagine living in a world we're not environmentally poisoned. | ||
| Like we are we're constantly surrounded by Wi-Fi and 5G and we're eating microplastics and glyphosate is on every vegetable and it there's we're like in a swoop, we're in a soup of toxins. | ||
| We can't even imagine what it's like to not have that and to not be burdened down by electronics and all the different things that people like they're probably very different back then. | ||
| Just just human beings in general. | ||
| I I bet they're probably very different in a lot of ways. | ||
| Yeah, that's one of the reasons I like living uh in Gallup. | ||
| It was really kind of uh simple. | ||
| Simple. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, there wasn't much Wi-Fi in there. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It was just uh simple's good for you. | ||
| It's not perfect though. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| You called me when I was living in Gallup and you said to me, Why are you living there? | ||
| You're telling me there's nothing around you. | ||
| It was like why are you living where there's nothing around you? | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Get out of there. | ||
| Well had to go through it. | ||
| I don't think there's anything wrong with going through phases, but I think ultimately people like to be around people. | ||
| Just but it's you know, there's a point where there's too many people, and then people become like a nuisance to you. | ||
| You're stuck on the 405 and like, oh my god, look at this traffic. | ||
| Where are all these people going? | ||
| And you know, and then people become a burden. | ||
| There's a bur there's a nice balance to be had somewhere in there. | ||
| I don't think it's like living in in the woods by yourself. | ||
| I think that's the dream. | ||
| It is a weird dream. | ||
| Yeah, it it was uh inspired by acid. | ||
| So it's a little bit problem is there's you're if you're in the woods by yourself, there's things out there that want to eat you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| If you're by yourself, they're gonna know where you are all the time. | ||
| Yeah, well, unless I was cross-country skiing up in the mountains behind Gallup, and I was being tracked by a mountain lion. | ||
| Of course you were. | ||
| Seemed like it must be a course you were. | ||
| Probably thinking about taking you out. | ||
| Yeah, probably thinking about taking you out. | ||
| At a certain point, I turned around. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, because if you look like you're out of breath, you look like you're tired, like if they think you're limping or something like that. | ||
| Oh my god, they can't help themselves. | ||
| And the woods are really getting dark around me. | ||
| So not good. | ||
| It's good to it's time to turn around. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're fucking terrifying. | ||
| And people have this romantic idea of what a mountain lion is. | ||
| You say that until it kills your dog in front of you. | ||
| Listen to me. | ||
| Those are dangerous predators. | ||
| California is the most ridiculous way of handling it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They they have to hire people to go kill 'em. | ||
| And when they find mountain lions. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And when they do, they find that fifty percent of their diet is pets. | ||
| You've got something that one hundred percent eats your dogs and cats and you're allowing it to live in the woods near your house. | ||
| Like this is kooky. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Plenty of them in the mountains, kids. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah, coyotes are into pets. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| If a c if if if a cat is lost for more than a few days around our neighborhood, that's pretty much it. | ||
| Oh, if you just let your cat out, you're basically like saying, You're gonna get eaten. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I I know it. | ||
| You probably don't know it because you're just a cat. | ||
| Well, you're gonna get eaten. | ||
| That's why you put them out. | ||
| They're everywhere now, too. | ||
| Coyotes are in every single city in the United States. | ||
| Yeah, uh you've seen coyotes. | ||
| Oh, fuck yeah. | ||
| Yeah, they lope across the road. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I've had coyote problems where they broke into my chicken coop and killed all my chickens. | ||
| Yeah, coyotes do that. | ||
| Yeah, they're they're smart too, man. | ||
| They're fascinating. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They they trick dogs into chasing after them and then they all ambush them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're very clever. | ||
| Clever. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You used to watch the you know, wily coyote. | ||
| He was an idiot. | ||
| That was so dumb. | ||
| Yeah, there's a lot of roadrunners in our neighborhood. | ||
| Crazy. | ||
| The the idea that the roadrunner would be smarter than a coyote. | ||
| Coyotes are so clever. | ||
| They're have you ever read Dan Flores' book, Coyote America? | ||
| No. | ||
| It's really good. | ||
| It's about the origin of the coyote and why the coyote is everywhere now. | ||
| And part of it is because of the persecution by the gray wolf. | ||
| So the gray wolves don't mate with the coyotes, but the red wolves do. | ||
| The gre the gray wolves, so they're from a totally different line. | ||
| So they do just kill the coyotes. | ||
| Because the coyote is just a small wolf. | ||
| And so what they figured out is that when a coyote dies, and like when they yell out, it it's like roll call. | ||
| And if someone's missing, the females produce more pups. | ||
| So they have extra pups. | ||
| And then they spread. | ||
| So they extra pups and then they move to a new place. | ||
| And by doing just because they were persecuted by the grey wolves, when they started getting persecuted by humans, you know, like so human beings m extradited wolves. | ||
| They They killed them all off, except for a few in the upper northern parts of the United States with strychnine. | ||
| But they couldn't do it with coyotes. | ||
| The coyotes just kept moving around and separate. | ||
| They just went to different spots. | ||
| They're very smart. | ||
| They're super smart. | ||
| They're in New York City right now. | ||
| Right now, there's coyotes in Central Park in New York City. | ||
| Little wild wolves running around Central Park. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Coexisting. | ||
| Just big enough where they don't look threatening. | ||
| They're just a clever little player of nature's game. | ||
| Wily coyote. | ||
| It's a really good book though. | ||
| But it's also about like you know, I could have sworn John McPhee wrote about coyotes. | ||
| Remember John McPhee out in that country, his Alaska book. | ||
| Well, I'm sure he probably wrote a book about coyotes too. | ||
| This is just different. | ||
| This is uh about the origins of you know coyote mythology amongst Native Americans and that there's thought to be a trickster and it's you just uh it is a uniquely American animal. | ||
| You know, it adapts. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well that's too bad as eating your chickens. | ||
| Yeah, it was shit happens. | ||
| Sorry to hear that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, it happened. | ||
| They got them they got they killed them all. | ||
| My my chickens in California. | ||
| They got into it with a chicken coop and they killed like nine of them. | ||
| So the chicken coop got damaged because of the fire. | ||
| So we had to uh get another chicken coop set up. | ||
| And so when we're set up the other chicken coop, it was one that you just buy from like a pet store and it wasn't that durable, and the the coyotes figured out how to open it. | ||
| And they just fucked up these chickens. | ||
| Ooh, it's a mask back. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It was just all feathers. | ||
| Feathers and blood. | ||
| Yeah, it was horrible. | ||
| They just went on a they just killed them all. | ||
| They killed them all. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They killed like nine of them. | |
| But uh, you know, that's the fucking game they play. | ||
| And I love that they exist. | ||
| I'm uh a fan of coyotes. | ||
| I like hearing them at night. | ||
| I think they're cool. | ||
| I don't want 'em to eat my dog though. | ||
| You know, it's like and you know they're not gonna listen. | ||
| You're like, hey, don't eat my dog and we're cool. | ||
| No, they're they're playing a game. | ||
| It's like wait till you turn your back and they'll attack your toddler. | ||
| I th I think besides m m you know, m movie trailers, the things I watch on YouTube most are animals killing other animals. | ||
| You know, bear you versus a musk uh, you know, muscle great stories. | ||
| Uh it's pretty primal. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Yeah, I like that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's pretty interesting. | ||
| These people were um in India and they were on some sort of a a park drive, you know, one of the wildlife parks, and they watched a tiger take out an animal right in front of 'em. | ||
| A tiger took out a deer right in front of them. | ||
| And they filmed it. | ||
| Like, what's was you know p cool well the ones I like are the warthogs. | ||
| Oh, they're so weird looking, aren't they? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're vicious. | ||
| They're huge. | ||
| They look like uh Star Wars character. | ||
| They don't even look like a real animal. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's unkosher pork. | ||
| Interesting thing. | ||
| Unkosher pigs, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, the things which are kosher, you know, chew cut and have completely split and separate hoops. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But uh those are the main criteria for mammals. | ||
| Do you think that's because of ancient diseases? | ||
| Because it just makes sense that we we know that uh trichinosis. | ||
| Uh a lot of that comes from pork. | ||
| Right? | ||
| It always seemed to me pigs are dirty animals. | ||
| But I I had a friend who was insistent that uh given the choice, pigs are very clean animals. | ||
| So it's hard to say about the filth aspect of it. | ||
| That's domestic pigs. | ||
| Um wild pigs are filthy animals. | ||
| Wild pigs. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All of them. | ||
| There's a difference between like a domestic pig. | ||
| This is where it gets really weird. | ||
| You take a domestic pig and you let it loose in the wild, and six weeks later it starts to f morph. | ||
| And it starts to ex extend it, the snout, its tusks grow longer, its fur gets thicker, it becomes like a wild pig. | ||
| That's kooky. | ||
| Yeah, I guess the primitive or the early stages are really strong. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It happens quickly, like within a month or two. | ||
| It's really weird. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I wonder how that works. | ||
| It must be some edicrine thing. | ||
| Must be their you know, gonads and their pituitary and their hypothalamus. | ||
| It's a really good question because like what would let them hit that switch and realize okay, I'm on my own now, they're not just bringing me my food every day. | ||
| Fuck. | ||
| Time to get hard. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it isn't a conscious decision on their part. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It seems like it just takes over. | ||
| But I was thinking like if the if that animal is not um like the Muslims don't eat it, and the Jews don't eat it. | ||
| And you would imagine at a time where food was really important, and if you can get pork that was way better than not having any meat, and you can't eat it because of your religion. | ||
| To me, it seems like I bet at least some of the origin of that was there was a disease that was going through these people that were eating pigs. | ||
| It's hard to say. | ||
| You know, the ones that are kosher are the ones which were burnt up in sacrifice as well. | ||
| You know, there are sheep and cattle. | ||
| Pull that microphone up to your mouth. | ||
| Sheep and cattle and goats. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Those were the sacrificial animals. | ||
| You know, the ones that were burnt on the altar, and also the ones that were eaten. | ||
| But do you think that why do you think pork was excluded from both Judaism and also from Islam? | ||
| Consumption of pork. | ||
| Yeah, it didn't meet the criteria. | ||
| The m the criteria for what? | ||
| Uh for a kosher meat. | ||
| It's just cud and needs to have a completely separated completely split hoof. | ||
| No, I get that, but I mean why why did they come up with that rule? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah. | |
| I think it seems to be that those are the animals that have the most amount of trichinosis, unless you're eating bears. | ||
| So I don't know if they're eating any bears back then. | ||
| Probably not. | ||
| They're probably eating a lot of deer species. | ||
| And if you tried to eat that kind of wild pork back then and you didn't cook it correctly, you probably get violently ill or die. | ||
| Uh well, you you know uh th there are causes. | ||
| Uh you know, th there are reasons for some of the precepts in the text. | ||
| It must be, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That are medically established. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Like shellfish probably has to do with red tide, right? | ||
| Uh well, bottom dwellers. | ||
| Bottom dwellers. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's interesting when you you try to decipher like why did they have that stuff in there? | ||
| Well, kind of makes sense. | ||
| Pork d pigs rather do carry a bunch of diseases that can wreck human beings. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, the person then making the dietary laws n knew that. | ||
| You think that's uh the reason they wrote those dietary laws. | ||
| Yeah, well, they didn't have meat thermometers back then, right? | ||
| So I bet a lot of people ate some medium rare pork or rare pork even and got violently ill. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Violently ill. | ||
| Like trichinosis apparently is brutal. | ||
| It and you have it for life. | ||
| So that like if somebody eats you, they get trichinosis, unless they cook it. | ||
| Yeah, I had C. diff some years ago. | ||
| I even wrote a book out about uh about what is C diff? | ||
| It's potentially fatal diarrhea. | ||
| Oh no. | ||
| It was grim. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I wrote well then you know that's right. | ||
| That's the one I just couldn't do anything for. | ||
| Oh, that's right, that's right. | ||
| I forgot that you had that. | ||
| Yeah, so uh I wrote a book about it. | ||
| anybody's interested, Joseph Levy escapes death. | ||
| You know, maybe that's part of me enjoying watching certain animals, you know, like you know, animal killing animal. | ||
| It kind of changes you that being, you know, that being that close to the edge. | ||
| I'm sure. | ||
| Yeah, you even offered to come out, you know, to visit or to you know do a show at my house. | ||
| Yeah, when you were real struggling and we were going back and forth, you just weren't sure if you could travel. | ||
| I was like, ooh. | ||
| I was worried about you. | ||
| Yeah, thanks. | ||
| Because you bounded back. | ||
| Look at you, you look great. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| But there was a time where I was worried about you because it didn't you didn't sound like you were doing well at all. | ||
| Like you were really struggling. | ||
| And so Yeah, that's one of the things that pushed Well, I began reading concentration in camp literature during that phase. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Like, how bad have people had it and what do they do? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| It was pretty inspiring. | ||
| Uh I liked reading Primo Levy. | ||
| He's my f my favorite author, Ellie Vzell too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh Auschwitz and the end of Auschwitz. | ||
| Like, you know, the end, the last month or two. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Uh seemed like it was really something. | ||
| You know, typhus and nobody cleaning up after them for weeks, things freezing and bursting. | ||
| It was just nuts. | ||
| So you know, Primo Levy was a chemist, very clinical, took notes, remembered things in very kind of dispassionate, almost journalistic description. | ||
| The other kinds of things people can go through. | ||
| Yeah, you know, so that cheered me up in a way. | ||
| I mean, it m distracted me like boy, they had you know, they had it way worse. | ||
| And they had faith in something. | ||
| So I just I th I think that helps uh you know, strengthen my faith. | ||
| Like God wasn't done with me. | ||
| So did you feel like you had an obligation to get to work once you got healthy again? | ||
| Like God gave you this chance. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This bounce back, return of the Mac. | ||
| Thank God. | ||
| Yeah, it's great to see you looking healthy because I really did worry. | ||
| Sometimes people a bad health trip takes them just takes them down and and weakens them so much that they never really come back. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you think about death. | ||
| You must think about death. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I think about death. | ||
| You have to. | ||
| It's it's coming whether you want it or not. | ||
| Be interesting to not think about death. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't dwell on it, but I'm I'm definitely aware of it. | ||
| Yeah, there was a a week or two uh friends came over talking about you know their their their wishes or their interest in medically assisted death. | ||
| Mm. | ||
| There was a big article about that even a couple of months ago in one of the British journals. | ||
| Uh yeah. | ||
| Medically s unassisted death. | ||
| I I you called our rabbi and I asked his advice. | ||
| And he said, you know, you might be, you know, you you may be obligated to knock the pills onto the floor. | ||
| I thought that was interesting take. | ||
| You may be obligated to knock the pills onto the floor. | ||
| From the person's hand who's about to take them. | ||
| Well that would yeah. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Or you know, within uh or uh more the equivalent, you know, like you know, you there might be some drugs going in IV would uh stop them up. | ||
| Um yeah, you know, so uh well uh yeah, I like I I feel pretty good. | ||
| So I wonder, well, you know, what happens if I start feeling really bad. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So uh, you know, I feel good, so I figure well it just keep me out of pain. | ||
| You know, give me enough of you know morphine. | ||
| See what happens. | ||
| My mom died, I watched her die. | ||
| Oh wow. | ||
| And we gave her morphine out of van too, like palium. | ||
| Yeah, it was pretty uh peaceful. | ||
| Yeah, but it it was quiet. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's a weird thing because you don't want anybody poisoning anybody. | ||
| But you do want to give people the option to go out gracefully. | ||
| Well, I think you'd just be feeling great. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| You'd be feeling that would be gracefully. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Just one burst. | ||
| I had um a morphine drip when I had my knee operated on once in the nineties. | ||
| And it was incredible. | ||
| It was incredible. | ||
| And I r people tell me this is not true, but I swear I remember this being true. | ||
| That you could press the button any time you wanted more morphine. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| I think it's called patient controlled analogies or something. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| People are like, no, no, you're remembering it wrong. | ||
| I'm like, I don't think I am, man. | ||
| I really remember hitting that button a bunch of times and meeting Jesus. | ||
| It was like a the the most wonderful loving hug by the universe. | ||
| It was just like this thing in bed while my leg is on this uh continual motion machine. | ||
| You know what those are? | ||
| Uh no, but I can imagine. | ||
| When they do ACL reconstructions, when they do a patella tendon graph, it's a pretty violent operation. | ||
| They have to cut your knee open like a fish. | ||
| They take a slice of your patella tendon along with a chunk of your bone from your shin and a chunk of your bone from your kneecap, and then they screw it all back in place. | ||
| And to keep it from seizing up while you're lying in bed, your leg is on this machine that goes like this, extends it and brings it back, extends it and brings it back. | ||
| Were you awake when this was happening? | ||
| Oh yeah, you're awake. | ||
| Yeah, I was awake for the operation. | ||
| Because my thought is I'm only gonna have one knee operation. | ||
| I want to be awake for it. | ||
| So they did like an epidural. | ||
| Epidural, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| So I was awake. | ||
| I watched it. | ||
| I watched it on a monitor. | ||
| It was crazy. | ||
| Crazy to watch this guy open my knee up, screw it in place. | ||
| Um the point is while I was in the hospital bed, they had this button that you could press when you wanted more morphine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And I hit that button like a bunch of times and I was like, wow. | ||
| It felt incredible. | ||
| And I only did and I remember also thinking, boy, this could be a problem. | ||
| Cause I I had done construction with a guy who had a bit of a heroin problem. | ||
| And so I was aware that people would get like a real opiate problem. | ||
| And when I was in bed, I was like, I get it. | ||
| I get it now. | ||
| It feels it feels amazing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I would say cool, but yeah. | ||
| But also I knew that like my leg was fucked. | ||
| I knew it was going to take forever before it felt normal again. | ||
| It was in pain and like just like, okay, I can't do anything but enjoy this right now. | ||
| Just like let me take a couple of taps and we know anymore. | ||
| It's called God's medicine for uh you know, God's own medicine for a reason. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It felt like a hug. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well well interesting you mentioned that one day uh the you were uh you know talking about faith and belief and what you base it on. | ||
| Um I was just talking about how uh when I was living up in Tawis, I was feeling kind of alone and sad. | ||
| And I prayed, you know, I prayed to God, you know, help me. | ||
| And uh I felt this loving hug kind of embraced me at the at the moment. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Which must have been you know, mediated probably by endorphins too. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, sounds pretty similar. | ||
| But it's interesting that we always want to like dismiss anything positive like that. | ||
| Oh, it's probably just endorphins just giving you this good feeling. | ||
| Like right. | ||
| But uh is endorphins because of or the source of. | ||
| Like which one is it? | ||
| We it m it might just be a part of it. | ||
| Like, yeah, the endorphins are real, but also is the experience. | ||
| It's the experience that that you're experiencing, you know. | ||
| And the intention that you're putting out there. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You're not you know feeling the endorphins attaching to the receptors. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You feel wonderful. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's something real to it. | ||
| Yeah, you know, drugs are interesting. | ||
| They are. | ||
| Well, I'm I just wish they uh weren't being controlled by the cartels. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's what's crazy. | ||
| Like people are not gonna stop using. | ||
| I don't think I think there's a lot of drugs you should never use, kids. | ||
| And there's a lot of people that should never use any drugs. | ||
| But the fact that they are always going to, and that the only way they can get 'em is through a criminal organization, and we haven't done our fucking one plus one equals two on that still in 2025. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, d a dispensary for everything you want. | ||
| Well, it's gotta be more than that, man, because some of that stuff's heavy. | ||
| So it's not just gonna be an exp dispensary, but it's also has to be some sort of uh counseling center, some sort of uh a guided trip. | ||
| There's gotta be like very clear ethics. | ||
| You know, you gotta have uh people that really know what they're doing and just want to help and don't have any weird narcissistic intentions or anything else, they just want to help people. | ||
| You'd have to have that too, because there's gonna be a lot of freaked out people. | ||
| If you make mushrooms and acid and all these things legal, you can just go get it. | ||
| Are you 18? | ||
| Oh, go buy it. | ||
| Like Yeah, I think there should be increased access. | ||
| I think so too. | ||
| You know, but I'm not opposed to I'm just saying the reality of the new interface. | ||
| If we just have all of a sudden these drugs are not just legal but legal and available for adults to buy, then you're gonna deal with a whole new set of problems that didn't exist before. | ||
| I'm not saying you shouldn't deal with that problem. | ||
| I think I think it's inevitable. | ||
| It's probably gonna happen anyway. | ||
| But those problems will be uniquely inflated by everything being legal. | ||
| Because people are just gonna go out and go fucking crazy. | ||
| And why is that? | ||
| Because if you can go to the bar and you can just go buy acid. | ||
| Do you know if people are gonna just go get acid? | ||
| If you could go like to any corner liquor store and pick up a pound of mushrooms, like if it's just totally legal. | ||
| Because you can go to a liquor store and get a case of beer, right? | ||
| You can get a case of whiskey. | ||
| You can get like twenty-four bottles of whiskey. | ||
| That is death by whiskey. | ||
| There's no way you're drinking that tonight. | ||
| Sir, you can't buy that many. | ||
| They never tell you that. | ||
| Like, go ahead, you want to spend that money? | ||
| So if you wanted to do that with mushrooms, and you could go to the liquor store and buy pounds of mushrooms. | ||
| Well, the you know, the I think with increased access there's increased, you know, mortality. | ||
| There will be. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| And there's not just that. | ||
| It's like people that just like they ruin their brains. | ||
| They're not ready for it. | ||
| They're the maybe they're barely hanging on as it is, and then they have too many psychedelic trips, and now they're really fucked up and well you that's true too. | ||
| You'll never hear me advocate for the use of drugs. | ||
| Good for you. | ||
| Yeah, I've never said people should take drugs. | ||
| I you know, I say people shouldn't. | ||
| How many people are on amphetamines right now? | ||
| A lot of people on amphetamines. | ||
| I uh uh I've got an amphetamine story. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Um a friend gave me some adderal one day. | ||
| Well, I I asked him for it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh lucky he came clean. | |
| He came clean right away with no prompting. | ||
| That's funny. | ||
| Yeah, he was taking it for ADHD. | ||
| I said help. | ||
| Uh and I wrote this review. | ||
| Well, you know, the there used to be a magazine called Shaman's Drum, which re uh which you did a book review on the on the DMT book. | ||
| And he didn't think it should be called the spirit molecule, rather the dream molecule. | ||
| I took umbrage. | ||
| So after I took the Adderall, I wrote a 20-page letter. | ||
| It was pretty self, you know, uh what's the word inflated. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So the next morning. | |
| I you looked at it and it was terrible. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um I I didn't send it. | ||
| Uh all my friends who have done coke I've never done Coke, but all my friends who do coke that do stand-up comedy say you can't do stand-up comedy on Coke. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They say you have no feeling. | ||
| You don't like the you don't connect with the audience. | ||
| It's like it's like a just a barrier. | ||
| Like you could kind of pull it off, maybe. | ||
| But you never really like lock in. | ||
| Yeah, so you're not funny on it. | ||
| Yeah, you're not funny on it. | ||
| You're you're m probably detached. | ||
| You're probably self-obsessed, you know. | ||
| It's a weird, it's a weird drive. | ||
| I just Well, it would be like you were talking to yourself and you loved it. | ||
| You love the son of your fucking boys. | ||
| But I think the Adderall's a lot like that too, though. | ||
| It's very similar. | ||
| There's something similar to that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| In my case, it was just writing. | ||
| Just writing, writing, writing, you're feeling like uh, you know, uh I had a lot to say. | ||
| Yeah, I'm not even saying you shouldn't do it. | ||
| But journalists I know do it. | ||
| I know a lot of journalists who love Adderall. | ||
| They might not even say they love Adderall, but they fucking love Adderall. | ||
| I know they do it all the time. | ||
| And you can you know, you could blame it on deadlines and you know, having to write stories and r really needing to push through because you don't have enough time. | ||
| I I totally get it. | ||
| And I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but it's just fascinating how many people do it. | ||
| Yeah, it was the case with PK Dick. | ||
| He was into amphetamines. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Um he died of a stroke. | ||
| Oh yeah, I'm sure you're gonna cook those veins. | ||
| You're gonna cook everything. | ||
| If you're doing amphetamines all the time, you're cooking your brain, son. | ||
| Do you like PK Dick? | ||
| Um I haven't read him since high school. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah, I went through a phase. | ||
| You well, I was talking about St. Peter Snow. | ||
| Uh it's written by uh viennese Jew mathematician guy named Perutz, who did uh St. Peter's Snow. | ||
| Uh and I read all of his books. | ||
| There's like eight. | ||
| And uh yeah, it's fun to get to know someone. | ||
| So once I started f uh thinking about Dick Well, I I watched the TV show uh what's it called? | ||
| The man from the High Castle and got me interested in reading the novel by Dick and uh went through most of his work. | ||
| What was the movie they did based on one of his novels? | ||
| I love Dick. | ||
| Or I love PK Dick. | ||
| Oh quite a few. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Blade Barkley. | ||
| I'll recall. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Just recall was his too? | ||
| Total recall. | ||
| We can remember for it whole uh we can remember for you we we can remember for you wholesale is the one that was um um uh uh you know total recall. | ||
| Blade runner was amazing. | ||
| The original Blade Runner with Rutger Hauer. | ||
| Uh my god. | ||
| Did you say what about the um Oh gosh, the one with King Keenal Reeves and Robert Downey Jr. and the rotoscope. | ||
| Scanner Darkley through Spanner Dark Lair. | ||
| Alex Jones is in that, isn't he? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, so that's a novel. | ||
| Uh Dick. | ||
| Very interesting. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, the guy with uh skin or the suit that changed according to emotions. | ||
| Remember mood rings? | ||
| No. | ||
| Remember those? | ||
| Uh yeah, I think that may have been when I was in high school. | ||
| They had a mood ring, because you were cool if you had a mood ring when I was in high school. | ||
| So mood ring apparently, depending upon your body temperature with light, you know, and different hues. | ||
| You never heard of it? | ||
| Uh not really. | ||
| I'm Jamie, see if you can find mood rings. | ||
| Yeah, that may have been from the eighties or something. | ||
| Yeah, I'm old, dude. | ||
| How old are you? | ||
| And I was more serious by then. | ||
| How old are you now? | ||
| Seventy-three. | ||
| Okay, you're older than me, dog. | ||
| I'm fifty-eight. | ||
| So um you look great, by the way. | ||
| You really do. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, you really do. | ||
| You and you look so much better than you did when you were struggling. | ||
| So it's really nice to see you bounce back like that. | ||
| Oh, thanks. | ||
| Is uh mood rings became a nineteen seventy sensation. | ||
| Here we go. | ||
| Here we go. | ||
| So uh I went to high school in eighty one and they were still down with mood rings if you were in the right circles. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But uh these goofy things, uh you would wear 'em and uh they'd make your hand green, of course, because they're made out of crap, like the metal's crap, but they have these weird rocks on them that would uh change color. | ||
| See if you find like a photo of one. | ||
| Well yeah, I mean but like a photo of one changing color. | ||
| Well, that's not a photo, that'd be a video. | ||
| Uh I'm sorry. | ||
| I mean, you know what I'm saying, like uh show what it looks like. | ||
| There's a couple colors. | ||
| They're kinda dope though. | ||
| It's kinda kinda cool still. | ||
| Uh is it a rock? | ||
| What the fuck is that? | ||
| What does that? | ||
| That's a good question. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| What is a mood let's find that out. | ||
| What is a mood ring made out of? | ||
| What is it made out of? | ||
| Is it like uh an a a resin or something? | ||
| It might be some kind of acrylic with some. | ||
| Or is it an actual rock? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay, so this dude came up with the mood ring? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Um, who created the mood ring remains topic of some debate. | ||
| Jewelry designer named Marvin Wernick says he invented the mood ring years before 1975, developing the idea after he saw a doctor use a thermochromic temperature measuring tape on a patient. | ||
| So he came up with the idea of a mood ring after the stress of working in Wall Street led him to explore biofeedback, a therapeutic technique where people improve their health by responding to signals from their own bodies. | ||
| Huh. | ||
| So what are the crystals made out of, bro? | ||
| Crystals. | ||
| Crystals. | ||
| What are they? | ||
| What are the crystals made out of? | ||
| Ooh, look how pretty. | ||
| That's pretty, isn't it? | ||
| Like a a dope ring that's a mood ring. | ||
| You know? | ||
| That way like you could tell whether or not your significant others upset at you? | ||
| Like let me look at your fingers. | ||
| You're lying. | ||
| Yeah, well, uh yeah. | ||
| I mean, it's a it it's uh you know form of you know global you uh you know communication, huh? | ||
| No keeping secrets. | ||
| I don't think it really works. | ||
| I think it's only just heat. | ||
| If you go to the gym and you slip it on, you look like you're like really angry. | ||
| Well, if if if your hands are cold. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| It's not gonna work. | ||
| So it's just dumb. | ||
| It's just dumb, but people loved it when I was a kid. | ||
| Yeah, I think it kind of passed me by. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh uh. | |
| You got lucky. | ||
| You missed the dumb mood swing. | ||
| I was in school. | ||
| Mood ring swing. | ||
| Um when you first this what's interesting is when you first started those studies and you fur and you published DMT the spirit molecule. | ||
| Did that have an effect on people taking you seriously with all your other work? | ||
| Was it one of those things where you got labeled now, you're the crazy psychedelic guy who did that nutty study? | ||
| Or was there enough people that were like, oh, this is great, now you have a legitimate academic studying this in a federally approved way. | ||
| This is actually good for everybody, and maybe this opens the door. | ||
| It certainly opened up the door to the discussion. | ||
| Like after you put that book out, and and ever and people were who if you read that book, you'll you'll come to the conclusion that there's something mighty going on below the surface of human life in general that can be accessed in this very weird way. | ||
| Within a second or two. | ||
| It's banana. | ||
| I've never done it the way you guys did it, but it's the regular way is bananas. | ||
| And somehow or another, we're depriving people of this. | ||
| Well, I mean, shouldn't it be the front page news? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Is you can give this drug regularly and it end and everybody goes to the same place. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's a very weird place. | ||
| Well, I I think it ought to be on people's well, it ought to be on people's lips. | ||
| DMT stopped my fascination with UFOs because I was like, it stopped it, paused it, I should say. | ||
| It paused it because I was like, no matter what a UFO looks like, it's not as crazy as what I just saw. | ||
| Like no matter what. | ||
| A you uh just an actual metal flying disc from another planet, be like, huh, yawn. | ||
| Like that's nothing. | ||
| It's nothing compared to what exists in a few seconds. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And well would you say that you went to the same place you you you went back there each time? | ||
| Was it the same place? | ||
| You could tell me. | ||
| You tell me, I don't know. | ||
| I've done it differently, and I've done it differently with sound with um Icaros, which was wild. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That was wild. | ||
| That was like d like dancing things. | ||
| That was really fascinating when you realize like, oh, that's why the music is made the way it's made. | ||
| Like the music is perfect for that. | ||
| Yeah, you gotta do it. | ||
| It's perfect for the psychedelic trip. | ||
| I I think it inside into music by seeing it. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| I I I think of music differently from that trip. | ||
| And then, you know, I think I would I really want to explore Kundalini yoga. | ||
| I just have like put it off forever. | ||
| Because I've had friends that have done DMT and also do Kundalini Yoga, and they'll tell you, dude, if you work hard enough, you can get to that place. | ||
| Where you can get to that place with on the notch, completely in your own mind without taking any drug at all, where you could full on DMT trip. | ||
| And the guy the guy who told me this was very reliable and had experienced DMT, was also a jiu-jitsu black belt, like a solid guy. | ||
| Like I believed him, and he's like, You can get there. | ||
| Yeah, have you ever done or heard about that holotropic breath work? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Yeah, it's come to I've done that. | ||
| And yeah, it switched me into a very highly altered state. | ||
| Very highly altered state. | ||
| It it felt like you know, as long as we're talking drugs, it it felt more like MDMA than it did DMT. | ||
| I've had some moments before I had like a big show or something, and I just really wanted to relax where I'll do deep breathing and stretching, just deep breathing and stretching, and you get high as fuck. | ||
| It's just this weird natural high that happens, like you relieviate tension in your body, and your body rewards you for it with all this endorphin rush and dopamine, and you get so friendly and so sweet, you just want to hug everybody, you want everybody to be happy. | ||
| It's like it like releases this like you're carrying it around physical tension that manifests itself in the way you view the world. | ||
| Well and you can get out of it on your own, which is nuts. | ||
| Yeah, so how do you think well you know what what do you think it means that that's built into our systems? | ||
| I think we need physical activity, and I think um we always have had physical activity, so it wasn't ever a thing where you had a mandate Physical activity. | ||
| It's like we had to to stay alive. | ||
| So because of that, there's like the body functions in that way. | ||
| It's only strong if it's forced to work. | ||
| It only has a good immune system if it's exposed to a certain amount of different people and different bios. | ||
| It becomes just like a muscle does when it gets sedentary. | ||
| It atrophies. | ||
| And your body actually and so that's the problem with like the human civilization. | ||
| We get into cities, everything beg becomes easier. | ||
| You're sedentary most of the time. | ||
| The body decays, and you're in a you're in a state where you're depressed all the time. | ||
| You don't know why. | ||
| Well it's because your your body doesn't it's not designed to work like that. | ||
| For tens of thousands of years, you had to be active, you have to be running around, you had to be carrying things, you had to be getting water, you had to be building things, you have to be f hunting things and fishing, you had to be moving because you had to stay alive. | ||
| And then all of a sudden you're not. | ||
| And I think that's one of the great dilemmas of mental health in this country that's maybe dismissed by a lot of people. | ||
| One of the great dilemmas is you're sedentary. | ||
| I think there were some studies comparing Prozac way back when with a routine of physical exercise. | ||
| And exercise is an antidepressant. | ||
| So it's been recent ones with SSRIs that show that it's more effective, more effective than SSRIs. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because we're not supposed to be sedentary, and nobody wants to be told what to do, and nobody wants to feel bad. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| But you you have to feel bad for yourself so you could feel better later. | ||
| You just have to get coached. | ||
| That's all it is. | ||
| And don't resist it. | ||
| Just embrace it. | ||
| Well, what about Ozepic though? | ||
| I don't think those things are bad in the right circumstances. | ||
| I don't think if you're a guy and you need to lose 30 pounds, you get on that, like, come on, man, you can do that. | ||
| You can lose the I'll be your friend. | ||
| I'll fucking help you. | ||
| Like just stop eating sugar, stop eating bread, get yourself on a workout schedule. | ||
| You're gonna say, I I'm gonna get on the fucking bike in the morning, I'm gonna get on that stupid fucking I'm gonna do a Peloton workout every day for a month. | ||
| You'll lose 20 pounds that month. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You can do it. | ||
| You just have to be focused. | ||
| Right, but if you're 500 pounds, if you're if you're if you're morbidly obese, if you're really addicted to food, you've got a real problem. | ||
| I think it can help you get to a healthy path. | ||
| That's what I think it's really the best for. | ||
| If you can help people get to a healthy path where they stop overeating, they can get it under control, they get new patterns, and then they start getting addicted to walking, maybe, get addicted to feeling better, start being able to do things you couldn't do before. | ||
| There's like hundreds of pages of Instagram people who during COVID where they were obese, wind up losing 100, 200 pounds. | ||
| Do you know who jelly roll is? | ||
| Uh no, but I've seen some uh you know some stories, some pictures of people that were very, very, very heavy, 800 pounds. | ||
| Jell Jelly Roll is an amazing musician, an incredible guy who like went to jail, he's got face tattoos, but he's the sweetest person that's ever lived. | ||
| He's lost like 200 pounds in the last year or so. | ||
| Is it a year and a half, two years? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He looks amazing. | ||
| Yes, no ozempic. | ||
| No, no zempic. | ||
| Just doing it the right way, exercising, but I just think the problem there's always like some sort of a a trade-off when it comes to what you do and don't do. | ||
| Look at the size he used to be, and look what he looks like now. | ||
| And then saying, Yeah. | ||
| Amazing. | ||
| Well the sweetest fucking guy of all time, too. | ||
| Yeah, you know, so you could lose that weight. | ||
| It's well is like depression and exercise. | ||
| But also he's a wealthy star, he has access to great food, he has a reason to believe his life is gonna be better. | ||
| He's got a great life already. | ||
| Yeah, for most enhancing himself. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I I think for most people, like actually developing a real exercise regimen would be way harder than just taking Prozac. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| But that's where a guy like that comes in play, we go, well, he can do it, I could do it too. | ||
| Like, what do you what do you have to do? | ||
| You just have to start slow, keep moving, don't stop, get get a schedule, put it together, make some progress, note the progress, get excited about progress, keep going. | ||
| But if Ozempik helps you, like fucking I'm for whatever helps you, man. | ||
| You know, I've had a friend that was very close to suicide before he got on SSRIs. | ||
| I'll never say there's no one should ever take SSRIs, because I don't know if he would have bounced back. | ||
| But he did bounce back, and then he got himself off of them and then he got healthy. | ||
| And now he's great. | ||
| And this is, you know, with a lot of medications. | ||
| A lot of them are you they have just real benefits for him, and I think Ozempic is one of those. | ||
| I think if you're if you're a morbidly obuse obese person, one of the things that my friend Brigham Bueller, who is the CEO of Ways to Well, and Ways to Well um is is also uh a pharmacy or a compounding pharmacy. | ||
| So they make some peptides. | ||
| And he said you can make it so that it doesn't have all the negative effects by making it for the actual size of the person, so you give them the exact dose and combining peptides that's gonna prevent bone loss and muscle loss. | ||
| Like that's possible to healthily slow the process down, stop the overeating, get the inflammation in check, get the diet in check. | ||
| But it's gotta be done like systemically. | ||
| And they want you to do it with like a certain amount of exercise per week and they want you to eat vegetables and meat and just healthy stuff only. | ||
| Throw out all the bullshit and let's try to get this train back on track. | ||
| Yeah, it reminds me of that PK Dick story. | ||
| Did you ha uh what's what was that called? | ||
| The three stigmata of Palmer Eldritch. | ||
| It's about competition between an in uh an extra stellar, intrastellar psychedelic versus a terrestrial psychedelic. | ||
| Which company was going to be able to sell the psychedelic or the world view of choice. | ||
| You know, the one that came fr from the earth uh g got people into um Perky Paddy's world where everybody was this big and they all lived in this house together and did stuff, like but they went to the beach and had barbecues and things. | ||
| Yeah, that was the terrestrial psychedelic that was competing against an intra stellar psychedelic. | ||
| Which was completely horrible. | ||
| It was weird. | ||
| It was like you never stop tripping. | ||
| Oh no. | ||
| Oh no. | ||
| Yeah, and you know that was gradually spreading. | ||
| Oh that well, I think that's everybody's fear when they do something, like, oh my god, what if this never ends? | ||
| What if this is my new reality? | ||
| Like, oh my god, I'm done. | ||
| I'm dead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I'm gone. | ||
| It's always been this way, it will always be this way. | ||
| Yeah, that was my worst trip ever. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And then for people with severe anxiety, some people just don't bounce back well from something like that. | ||
| And that's why never advocate drugs to anybody. | ||
| I never have. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I know you haven't. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, you didn't even want to admit that you did 'em when we first started talking. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You didn't even want to admit you smoke pot. | ||
| Yeah, at this point, you know. | ||
| But I think you thought back then like to be taken seriously as a researcher. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Yeah, that's true. | ||
| But I've I'm you know, less of a researcher now, so I don't have that same kind of, you know, uh uh camouflage to wear. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, I'm glad because uh look without you the the understanding of what that experience is would be greatly diminished in popular culture. | ||
| I don't think people would really understand what it is if it wasn't for that book. | ||
| And I know you gotta really stick your neck out to try to make something like that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's bizarre because it is a thing, it's a real thing. | ||
| And you should know about real things. | ||
| You should know about real things that have probably been in human use for thousands and thousands of years and s hidden from you by Nixon. | ||
| Yeah, the thing I like so much about DMT is that it's endogenous. | ||
| It's made in it is made in the brain. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh do you think it's what we're making when we're dreaming? | ||
| It might be what we're making right now. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, that's uh one idea is that it regulates consensus reality by maintaining itself at a certain concentration in the brain. | ||
| I buy that. | ||
| But I buy a lot of things. | ||
| It's the matrix. | ||
| It's the endomatrix. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh um you know about the matrix or this red laser and DMT. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Tell people about it because it's nuts. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't I don't know much about it. | ||
| You haven't done it? | ||
| Uh no. | ||
| So apparently it's a red laser, and if you're tripping on DMT and you look down or below, so you could either look from uh below it, look up or from above it, look down, right? | ||
| Is that correct? | ||
| I didn't know there was a directional code. | ||
| I think it's a directional thing. | ||
| I don't think if it's on the wall, you read it. | ||
| I think you have to get above it and look down. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| But I think that's what they say. | ||
| And if you do that you see code. | ||
| Code, yeah, like uh you know, like the Matrix. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well or Japanese. | ||
| If there's anybody that should believe that life isn't real, it's me. | ||
| Life isn't real? | ||
| That it's not real. | ||
| Like that that maybe there is some sort of magical quality to this experience. | ||
| Some sort of uh very difficult to grasp aspect of reality that we ignore that's spiritual or mystical or there's something going on outside of just normal physical reality. | ||
| Uh well I think things wouldn't be this way uh otherwise. | ||
| And you know, cause and effect goes a certain way. | ||
| It's not neutral. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It you know, it kind of pushes you in one direction. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| So who created cause and effect, what are c cause and effects causes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Motivations. | ||
| What are what are angels and demons? | ||
| All right. | ||
| What is what uh where evil where is evil come from? | ||
| We know it's real. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Where does good come from? | ||
| We know it's real. | ||
| It's like everybody wants to be so smart that they dismiss the idea of angels and demons. | ||
| It's really fascinating. | ||
| Because they're really just a word for it. | ||
| An actual force that creates a a damaging, terrifying or wonderful, amazing effect. | ||
| Good and evil. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Angels and demons. | ||
| Yeah, like this r the effect is real, and we both know that people are capable of either one. | ||
| It's one of the reasons why we love people though. | ||
| It's cause we love great people because we know that there's terrible people. | ||
| We love people that are warm and friendly and kind and sweet. | ||
| Because we know that there's people that out there that are self-serving and shitty and mean. | ||
| You know, and th that's we need one to appreciate the other. | ||
| And that's what's so fucked up about being a person. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, in uh the text anyway, angels are intermediaries. | ||
| You know, like you know, God has no body, right? | ||
| So how can God interact with the world? | ||
| Yeah, so the angels are the inter intermediaries. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh like DMT in a way is the most spiritual of the physical. | ||
| What do you both think about the people that try to connect UAPs with angels? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Have you ever had a UAP UFO alien experience? | ||
| No, no, I've never no, not really. | ||
| What about you? | ||
| No. | ||
| I'm trying, bro. | ||
| You're trying, how do you try? | ||
| No, I I wish. | ||
| Yeah, I wish I saw something. | ||
| I wish I saw something that it was like one hundred percent. | ||
| There's no way that's ours. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It'd be cool. | ||
| Yeah, that's never happened. | ||
| But I don't think they're all lying. | ||
| I don't think that's the case. | ||
| I don't think they're all lying. | ||
| There's too many of 'em that that tell a story that's it just doesn't seem like bullshit. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| Has has Whitley Strawberry been on your show? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| He's an odd one because he's a fiction writer. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Not that I don't believe him, but when a guy writes fantastical fiction for a living and then has a fantastic fantastical fictional experience that actually happens to him that becomes his his thing. | ||
| It's like Arsenio Hall said, things that make you go, hmm. | ||
| I'm not saying that he it didn't actually happen to him because his his experience it would be ironic if it did, because then nobody would believe him because he writes fiction, right? | ||
| But his experiences mirror a lot of the experiences from the John Mack book. | ||
| You know, um did you read that book, Abduction? | ||
| Yeah, I knew John back in the day. | ||
| Yeah, I liked him. | ||
| Very smart guy. | ||
| Those um stories and that was back before the internet really, where there was any social media or anything like that back then. | ||
| Um those stories were oddly uniform. | ||
| Well, they were, and you know, John Mack, the psychiatrist from Harvard or Cambridge. | ||
| Uh yeah, we talked about the similarities between his s uh subjects reports and our DMT volunteers. | ||
| He thought we uh had some you know come across a technology that would make contact at least the experience of contact, you know, st uh something that could be studied scientifically. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Jeez. | |
| Someone should reignite that idea right now. | ||
| Yeah, I'm surprised DMT's not in the news more. | ||
| Well, there was a study that they were doing in England, correct? | ||
| Yeah, there's a couple of groups. | ||
| Well, they were doing a long term drip, not like yours. | ||
| So yours was like one push. | ||
| I think theirs is like a drip. | ||
| Yeah, 30 minutes extended. | ||
| Something kooky like that, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And there's a group in Switzerland. | ||
| Uh John Dean at UC San Diego's gonna start one. | ||
| Uh so there's at least three around the world. | ||
| It's a real place that you can go to, and that's what's nuts. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| For people that never experience anything and they're teetoddlers their whole life. | ||
| It sounds crazy. | ||
| I know it sounds crazy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you know, w what what do you think of the beings? | ||
| Do you think the beings are are outside of us? | ||
| Do you think they're disembodied souls? | ||
| Or do you think they're inside us all the time? | ||
| Well, if they're inside us all the time, then we're everything. | ||
| Then inside of us is just somehow connected to everything. | ||
| It's we're not individuals at all. | ||
| We we are everything. | ||
| We're all of us are everything. | ||
| If if they are inside of us. | ||
| And they may be inside of us. | ||
| It might all it might be the idea of like a physical boundary is just nonsense. | ||
| Like who gives a fuck where it's from? | ||
| It's all everywhere all the time. | ||
| You just don't have access to it right now. | ||
| You don't have access to it in your default state because your default fundamental state is a primate. | ||
| You know, but it's in there. | ||
| And occasionally you have access to it. | ||
| You have access to it, near death experiences, you have access to it, holotropic breathing. | ||
| But if you had access to it all the time, you wouldn't be able to exist in this barbaric state that you live in. | ||
| Well, I think it has to do with the dose. | ||
| I mean, if it's really high, if if the levels are really high in the in the brain and the mind. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, the uh it this could be just a DMT simulation on them, not the first one. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| In in which case there still is cause and effect. | ||
| Well just imagine a world where this wasn't reality, but then you got to experience this, it would be completely psychedelic. | ||
| You'd be like, what is this fucking crazy world? | ||
| It'd be different. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's the 3D and the shadow people. | ||
| Just do you know how weird it is sometimes if you just stand on a corner and watch people just walking and looking at their phones. | ||
| Um, kidnapped and they don't even know it. | ||
| Yeah, there's a lot of that here. | ||
| It's everywhere. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Everywhere I moved back to Albuquerque last year. | ||
| Oh yeah? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So it's cool to be a good thing. | ||
| Better localization. | ||
| Yeah, I do. | ||
| Nice. | ||
| Yeah, and we have a front lawn and a back lawn. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Albuquerque's home to some of the greatest mixed martial arts fighters ever. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| John Jones lives in Albuquerque. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Greatest of all time. | ||
| Yeah, I love it. | ||
| Shout out to Albuquerque. | ||
| Jackson Winkle John in the house. | ||
| Yeah, I I love New Mexico. | ||
| That's great. | ||
| Well, it's a crazy state with a rich history and beautiful landscape. | ||
| Oh my God. | ||
| I have a friend who uh just got back from elk hunting there. | ||
| He was raving about how gorgeous it was out there. | ||
| Uh the sky is great. | ||
| We have a pretty cool governor. | ||
| Before she was governor, she was the secretary of health. | ||
| Oh, cool. | ||
| Yeah, during during COVID. | ||
| Yeah, so sh she knows public health. | ||
| And she's a nice lady. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You like her? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Beautiful. | ||
| Um Thanks for being here, man. | ||
| It was a lot of fun. | ||
| It always is. | ||
| It's always great to see you. | ||
| It's been great to be a friend all these years. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| It's great to see you healthy. | ||
| Yeah, it's great. | ||
| Yeah, same. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Um is my DMT and the soul of prophecy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah. | |
| Yeah, it's right here. | ||
| There it is, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it it um it's pretty old. | ||
| Um that sucker up. | ||
| People can buy it. | ||
| Um it came in uh um it came out in 2014. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's um you know, what's the soul of prophecy? | ||
| Is it the visions or is the is it the message? | ||
| So um and then those are the other books that are available. | ||
| DMT the Spirit Molecule, which is what got me into you in the first place. | ||
| What a great cover, too, that Alex Gray artwork. | ||
| Well, uh you know, his artwork is on the second book too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Yeah, that's Alex Gray as well. | ||
| He's amazing. | ||
| Uh I mean that guy there's no one ever has captured the DMT state quite like him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| He's pretty good. | ||
| And it's just beautiful work. | ||
| Like it's stuff like and that crazy chapel of sacred mirrors that he has now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| The 3D printed like chapel. | ||
| Do you have any do you have any of his original art? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| No, no, no. | ||
| I've got the spirit molecule. | ||
| Oh, it's so cool. | ||
| That's awesome. | ||
| It's in the hallway. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| He's been a sweet guy, though. | ||
| I've we've talked to him a few times. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Thanks for being here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really appreciate you. |
Export Selection