James Fox and Joe Rogan examine decades of military UAP reports—from 1980’s silent SUV-sized objects to 2003’s football-field red square at Vandenberg, including a 1994 Nellis encounter where witness Jason Sands claimed telepathic contact with an earless entity. Fox reveals suppressed cases like Scotland’s 1990 disc-shaped UAP, witnessed by hotel workers intimidated by men in suits, and the Phoenix Lights (1997), dismissed by Arizona Governor Fife Simon until confronted years later. Credible radar data, hypersonic Tic Tac footage, and ancient art parallels suggest advanced propulsion or extraterrestrial origins, despite skepticism and potential psyops. Their discussion underscores the urgent need for transparency amid ongoing whistleblower leaks and bipartisan pressure. [Automatically generated summary]
I was super busy, you know, had the release of the film going on, and so I was, like, trying to focus on that and getting everything lined up, and it was a huge push.
And all these text messages from all around the world are pouring in, like, what the hell is going on with these drones?
And I was like, ah, it's probably something conventional.
I'm not going to worry about it right now.
I'm just going to keep on focusing what I got at hand here.
And then I started getting more information coming in, more information.
Then a buddy of mine called me, and he actually went to Brazil with me a couple years ago, and he's like, bro, I live here.
I'm seeing these things in the sky.
I've seen them seven times now.
They're the size of an SUV. I was like, well, what do they look like?
What do they behave like?
He's like, well, they're making noise.
I was like, oh, okay, well, that quickly kind of eliminates, you know, something non-conventional in terms of propulsion.
But then I got reports of objects that didn't make any noise, and that would go silent.
Why don't they just keep using UFO? Because people associate UFO with otherworldly, and they wanted to remove that baggage and make it a little less scary.
They're beating big grocery stores at their own game.
So, do yourself a favor, download the GoPuff app on your phone, use the code ROGAN20 for $20 off your order, and experience faster, cheaper, better shopping.
I have something that, this is about an airbase in Vandenberg Air Force Base in 2003, and this is not an anonymous.
But this is about incursions over...
Listen to this.
I promised this individual that I met at Seoul Conference.
He's a witness.
He's a military guy.
My name is Jeffrey Nusatelli.
I served 16 years in the United States Air Force as a technical sergeant and a military police officer.
In October 2003, my coworkers and I witnessed a series of extraordinary UAP incursions at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.
The initial event is known as the Vandenberg Red Square, and it was first mentioned during the historic UAP hearing held in 2023. The case involved Boeing contractors who witnessed a huge red square-shaped object roughly the size of a football field hovering over a missile defense system.
The object was silent and had no visible means of propulsion.
The contractors watched in amazement as the massive object slowly drifted east and vanished over the hills.
I retained official Air Force records of the event, including the blotter form entry, which includes the names and contact information of all the witnesses and provided it to select members of Congress, ARO, and the FBI. ARO is a new UAP Task Force All Domain Anomalous Resolution Office.
After the initial event, several other UAP incursions took place at Vandenberg.
I was on duty during many of the encounters and I investigated the incidents as they unfolded.
Now, remember, this is not anonymous reporting here.
They include a football field-sized craft that terrified security guards as it silently hovered over a launch facility before flying off at an unbelievable rate of speed.
A brightly illuminated silent object that landed on the base flight line before accelerating instantaneously and disappearing into space.
A huge triangle-shaped craft larger than a C-130 that hovered 50 feet over a police officer before it drifted slowly over the base.
A blue-white liquid orb, roughly the size of his house, that hovered over his house on the base.
The objects made no sound and had zero obvious means of propulsion.
And he says, my experiences with UAP were awe-inspiring, exciting, and terrifying.
I don't know why UAP are flying over our bases and our neighborhoods, but I do know the UAP phenomenon is of the utmost importance to all of humanity.
I currently have five other military witnesses to the Vandenberg incursions that are all willing to testify tomorrow under oath that these statements are true.
We need answers to this mystery and better government transparency.
Thank you for the opportunity to share my story, former United States Air Force Technical Sergeant and Witness, Jeff Nusatelli.
Crazy, right?
I mean, we're talking objects the size of a football field?
This was 2003. There was a number of incursions during that year, all the way into 2005. And he has the names, and they submitted it to the new head of Arrow.
I think the reason being is if you don't understand it and you can't protect people from it because it's so beyond our capabilities that if just describing it accurately Removes all confidence that our government has everything under control.
That's one reason why.
And also, if you have no answers, you don't know what the hell it is.
I remember, like 20 years ago, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, totally naive, still bright, I mean, still naive, but I was meeting with a general.
And I said, God, it'll be so amazing.
You know, this story is like so unifying and we had this kumbaya moment and we discovered that, you know, we're not alone in the universe and wouldn't that be amazing and blah, blah, blah, the implications for all of humanity.
And he sat there almost chuckling at me.
And he goes, looked at me and he goes, you got it all wrong, man.
You know, you got to see this through our lens.
And I was like, through your lens?
He goes, yeah, the military's perspective.
I was like, okay, tell me.
And I never thought about this before.
You just mentioned it.
He goes, okay, imagine this scenario.
We sit there and we say, you know, my fellow Americans, it has been brought to our attention that there are craft of unknown origin whizzing around with impunity in our airspace.
They exhibit a technology that's light years advanced from anything that we have.
We don't know who they are, where they come from, what they want.
Okay, so the program, basically, it's funny because the last time I was on the show, We were talking about an alleged crash retrieval case that took place in Virginia, Brazil in 1996. And your documentary on it, which is...
So we're talking about that, and I came off the heels of doing The Phenomenon, which touched a little bit on a potential crash retrieval program, but then it was like...
Then it was the crash retrieval over in Virginia, Brazil.
And then I got hyper-focused on that.
And then I had sort of...
It was a personal journey for me was, okay...
The elected officials, what do they know?
And when do they know it?
Do we have a crash retrieval program?
That's what I set out to do.
And then three months after I was on your show in April of 2023, the highest level intel officer, David Grush, testifies under oath That there is a crash retrieval program and the government does have definitive proof that we're not alone.
So he kind of opened the door for me.
And a lot had happened since the release of the phenomenon and moment of contact.
There was all this legislation.
There was the first congressional hearing.
There was behind closed doors meetings with a number of intel officers and witnesses.
And then you had the second congressional hearing, which was David Grush, which was absolutely phenomenal.
I'm sure you saw that.
And then just recently, just a couple of months ago, we had the third congressional hearing, which I actually, funny enough, got to attend.
It was the first time in my 30 years investigating.
I was actually sitting behind people while they were testifying under oath about legitimacy of the phenomenon as well as there's a crash retrieval program.
I mean, people have to understand that Feel like maybe these things aren't happening fast enough.
Just a couple years ago, they didn't even admit that the phenomenon is real.
Now there's people testifying under oath that we have a crash retrieval program.
I think it's a very good question, and here's why I don't believe that.
Because I have done 30 years of field research, right?
So I've gone to China, I've been to Russia, I've been to Australia and Africa, South America, Canada, Alaska, all across Europe, the United States, and I've investigated close encounters of the third kind.
And I'm going to ask your audience, don't take it from me, but the United States Air Force investigated and categorized Close Encounters of the First, Second, and Third Kind, right?
During their official capacity, Project Sign, Project Grudge, Project Blue Book.
Well, there's a guy acting his part, but actually Dr. Jalen Hynek, who's a scientific advisor to Project Blue Book all those years for the Air Force, actually has a cameo appearance, smoking a cigar during the encounter.
I remember I had a buddy of mine who was a pilot over Europe in the 70s, and he used to come for family dinners, and he was always talking about it, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever.
Well, actually, when I went in to put out Moment of Contact, people were going, James, you just dropped one of the biggest, most successful UFO films in terms of transcending the UFO community and penetrating a much broader, more mainstream audience.
Are you sure you want to put out a documentary that deals with an alleged crash and live aliens walking around the town of Virginia, Brazil?
Like, seriously, that's what you want to put out there?
You've got access to, like, Harry Reid and all these Intel insiders, and now you want to do that?
You know how to like you're really good at like explaining but you look at half the town Talking yeah, including the incredible story.
It's an incredible story.
It's a phenomenal story It's one of those stories where you like if everybody's in on this This is crazy if everybody's telling and no one there's not one contrarian that comes out and goes they all told me to lie I'm not fucking lying.
This is stupid.
They're doing it for tourism.
Oh, yeah one person Come on.
There's always some hater.
There's always some hater who wants to ruin your gag.
I remember when I was making Moment of Contact and I wasn't done with it yet, Lou Elizondo was like, he's like, James, he called me up.
He goes, I need a copy.
I was like, the film's not done.
I don't care.
I need a copy.
Give me a rough cut.
I don't care.
I was like, okay, okay.
What's the urgency?
And he's like, you don't understand who's watching this right now.
So I was like, okay, so I'm giving him copies, and I had absolutely no idea ever in a hundred million years that I think we're going to be having, months after the release of Moment of Contact, a congressional hearing under oath that there's a crash retrieval program.
Listen to the advice at the end of the program by Senator Harry Reid, who's now the late Senator Harry Reid, and I said to him, What advice would you give the president?
It could have been any president at the time.
And he said, don't be afraid of tarnishing your legacy by addressing this issue head on.
And I hope that Biden gets to see that.
And I really hope that President-elect Donald Trump gets to see that.
Algorithms are just starting to catch up with it on Google right now because everyone's like, I can't find it.
Look up the program and then Google James Fox UFO documentary, the program.
You will 100% find it.
It's being also made available internationally.
They're working as fast as they can to get it up.
It just went up yesterday.
It's the most independent film from start to finish that I've ever made.
And it covers...
What happened, because everybody thinks the government suddenly had this epiphany to decide to be more transparent with the general public.
That's not what happened.
What happened is there were a couple of intel insiders in the Pentagon reviewing some of this classified data or so-called classified data and resigned in protest of excessive secrecy.
They found a loophole.
This is Lou, probably Jay Stratton.
I don't know for sure.
Definitely Chris Mellon.
And they walked these evidence tapes out of the Pentagon through this loophole.
They bent the rules a little bit and onto the front page of the New York Times, right?
So that happened and it got...
it was just...
it was exploded.
You remember that.
And since then, there has been this unprecedented push by a bipartisan group of lawmakers to find out what the intelligence agencies know and when they knew it.
And so that started happening behind the scenes, right?
So it was 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, In 2021, and then in 2022, they were like, we're having a Congressional hearing.
Congressman Andre Carson, I think he's in Wisconsin, but I'm not positive, he put on, he spearheaded the first open Congressional hearing, public open Congressional hearing.
And in that Congressional hearing, they acknowledged the fact that The phenomenon was real.
It was slowly introduced that we were not getting told the facts.
There was a document that came out called the Wilson Davis Memo.
And that was about the discovery by a former DIA guy, Admiral Wilson, of the crash retrieval program that was like maybe 20, 20 plus years ago.
And none of the names or anything in that document were redacted.
I cover that memo in the film.
And then...
2023, another congressional hearing.
This time it was David Grush talking about the crash-producible program.
It's been a steady progression.
And so a lot has gone on between 2017 and 2024. And that is what this film does, is it covers behind-the-scenes effort, bipartisan group of lawmakers' effort to find out what the intelligence agencies really know.
Yeah, and people that were, you know, and in one of them, there was an encounter, and I think I remember you hearing about it, because you wanted to get a hold of David Grush, and so you contacted me, and I actually had a drone up in the air in England, and I was like, I know.
And I had my phone attached to my drone thing, because that's what it was using as a controller for the screen.
And I'm flying the drone, and there was a huge windmill, and I saw this windmill, and I was like, oh, that's going to make a beautiful shot for the movie.
And it is in the movie.
So I'm up there flying it, and the wind, the turbines are going round.
But in any case, when you watch the movie and the program, you'll see the drone flying dangerously close to these, and that's a funny little inside thing.
This is funny because when I was in Washington, D.C. with Mellon and this gentleman, Jason Sands, I'm using his name now, and Mellon looked at me and he goes...
This guy's story's pretty wild.
I was like, what do you mean?
He goes, really wild.
And we're sitting down having dinner, and Chris Mellon orders, he orders a, he orders a drink.
He had a tequila, so whatever.
Anyway, and we were all having dinner, and Jason Sands starts telling the story about this alleged encounter in 1994, and it's one of the craziest stories, and I've been doing this for 30 years, and this story is nuts, okay?
Part of the UOP task force, they found him and he was giving them information and reporting on things.
And so he goes, I'm really fearful.
I don't know if this witness protection program is going to be that helpful.
I'm just, I'm worried.
I said, look, if you're concerned about the story getting out or not getting out, if you want, I'm here.
You can come.
To our studio we could film you on camera and if anything happens to you it could be released and it could be a little insurance policy for yourself.
He goes, that sounds great.
Let's do it.
So I did a whole film about it and then I'm periodically posting clips or just still frames and updates on the movie as I'm making it as I do on social media and I posted this one scene and it had a clipboard in the scene and on that clipboard if you zoomed right in it had his name.
So I posted the, by accident, I posted the damn thing, and my phone starts blowing up ten minutes later.
You just revealed this guy.
What are you doing?
Take it down, take it down, take it down.
Too late.
Too late.
So it was out there, and he's getting all kinds of heat.
So, as a result of it, I'm giving the truncated version, he basically had to go through the Dobser process, which is basically pre-publication of authorization of what you can and cannot say.
Excuse me.
So, he basically could talk about a number of cases that were in the film.
We had to blurp out one particular word, which in the movie, it's blurred out.
We had to do that.
That was Dobser.
So, it was the winter of 1994. There was an unidentified flying object that was picked up on the base.
Old school UFO. Yes, sir.
It was a UFO. It was picked up on the base, and it was recorded by sensory data, and it was picked up on camera.
It had camera footage of it from different locations.
What did it look like?
It looked like a weird shape.
It was an unusual shape, and there's people talking about it.
Terrence Howard created this fascinating concept for like a drone where it's like propellers going all these different directions and they sync up and they link together and it looks like that.
Mr. Sands explains all of that in the film, the program.
He talks about it.
So anyway, so this leaks.
People's names, the witnesses leaks.
And...
Three days later, he's in a convoy.
Gesundheit.
He's in a convoy, and it's early in the morning, and there's three Jeeps, trucks, Jeeps, in convoy on a dirt road heading out Nellis Test Range.
And they see what looks like maybe somebody was involved in a plane crash.
There's somebody that was struggling out in the middle of the desert.
It was early in the morning.
It was wintertime and they're looking at this individual and they're like, oh my god, is that a person?
That individual needs some help.
That individual looks like they need some help.
They look cold.
Their skin had a slight blue tint to it.
And they're looking at this gentleman and they're like, hey, stop the convoy.
This person needs help, medical attention.
Maybe they had a plane crash and so we're going to help this person out.
And they pull the convoy over, and this individual comes up to the car.
Jason Sands gets out the right side of the door, and as he's getting out, somebody in the truck screams, he's got no effing ears.
And Jason says, he turns around and he looks at this guy, and he had the same kind of uniform that they had had on, but the uniform was just immaculate.
Like, there wasn't any dust on it, no dust on the boots.
And he was thinking to myself, well, that's weird.
This guy's got no ears.
Is this guy some kind of mutant?
And he looks at him and he said his eyes were a lot bigger.
It's all illustrated in the movie.
And then he starts talking like he said it was like a snake bite.
I mean, he was just paralyzed with fear.
It was really scary.
What am I looking at?
Is this a human?
Is this a mutant?
Is this an alien?
What is this?
And he starts talking to him in gibberish.
But he said he started to understand, like telepathically, everything this...
This person or entity, being, creature, alien, whatever you want to call it, was saying to him and he was looking for some kind of metal.
And he didn't know Tantillium.
And Jason's like, you know, I don't know.
I don't have any.
You mean titanium?
He's like, no, Tantillium or something.
And this conversation goes on for a bit, and then the guy just wanders back off and gets into that little craft that looked very similar to what you just saw there, and flies away, and he sort of stair-stepped away.
And everybody sort of came out of this comatose state, and off they went.
And we have the names of the other military witnesses that were on duty during the encounter, the alleged encounter.
People are going to criticize me because I'm reporting on a close encounter with a third guy.
But this, Jason Sands says he's willing to do a lie detector test like public.
He's willing to testify under oath that everything he's saying is true.
We have a date, we have a location, and we have the names of the other on-duty officers.
So what I'm hoping is, despite the level of criticism I'm going to receive for reporting on this, is that other individuals that have more information on this are going to be inclined to come forward.
I also met with people in the Senate Armed Service Committee, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, sorry, in the House, and they said Jason Sands is who he says he is.
He checks out.
He's named previously classified or classified programs.
He's identified.
The guy's legit.
His credentials check out.
And so I opted to go ahead and report on it with the hope that more information will come out on it.
But imagine being that person who had that experience and not have anybody believe you.
Not only that, but it could actually ruin your reputation and your career to talk about this experience, which is the reality of it.
And it's one of the things that stifled discourse on this until I think the New York Times really broke the ice.
I think in 2017 when they published that, all of a sudden serious people who were unwilling to talk about UFOs before just for the ridicule.
Now you've got the gimbal video, the go fast video, you've got fighter pilots, Commander David Fravor, you've got these people discussing these things openly and like, okay, this seems like something that a serious person can discuss now.
And so then it's open.
Actually meeting one and talking to...
It's like the Varginia story.
Like when I told people the cop picked it up and carried it in the car and the cop died from some horrible bacterial infection that they couldn't cure.
Wouldn't that be the best protection from an alien planet's bacteria if you had the most vicious bacteria on the surface of your skin?
Right?
Like imagine, like if you go to another planet and the way to mitigate the effects of viruses and bacteria on that planet is to have skin fluid that's like unbelievably toxic.
I took out this guy's garbage one time, and he's like, hey, it's in my garage.
He flipped up the thing and dropped it in there.
So I was kind of hungover.
We had a party the night before, and I went out to the garbage can, and I kind of heard some rustling in the garbage can, but I didn't really think anything of it.
And I lifted up the thing, and then I heard some rustling again.
I put my head down inside, and the skunk just turned and got me right in the face.
Now, I held my breath, and I closed my eyes at the last second, and it went right through me.
It penetrated my molecules.
It was so powerful that it was paralyzing.
Absolutely paralyzing.
Can you imagine?
Just a smell.
That's their way of defense.
It's just this stench that just goes through your body and just paralyzes you.
So they don't have to kill things and then, you know, worry about someone taking it from them.
You're not taking shit from a bear.
Especially a grizzly bear.
You're not taking shit from a bear.
Unless you're a bigger bear.
So, like, all the other animals have to worry.
Like, mountain lions kill quick because wolves will steal from mountain lions.
And apparently in the areas where wolves have been introduced, it's actually become a problem because mountain lions are killing much more than they normally do.
Because mountain lions will kill, like, a deer, two deer a week, something like that.
It sounds cruel, but listen, they have to do that to manage the populations.
If they don't, they start eating dogs.
That's what you get in San Francisco.
California still kills mountain lions.
They kill as many mountain lions as they would if they gave tags out to people to kill them, because you have to kill certain numbers of them for depredation, because they'll start killing livestock, they'll start killing dogs.
In the Bay Area, the problem cats that they wound up killing in San Francisco, half their diet was pets.
You know, one time I was hiking up this mountain, and I had my son with me at the time, and he was in that little pouch, you know, that little pouch that you put in the front?
He was probably like maybe two, two and a half.
And I was hiking this mountain pretty daily.
It's funny, actually, because when I went up there without him, I was like, well, this is why people hike with weights on.
This feels amazing.
I could run up this mountain.
Anyway, I was going to the mountain, and I had my dog, my little Duke, and I had my son walking up this mountain, and I come around this, like, go to the left hand.
It's pretty exposed, not too many trees, some bushes, and it's a hot, sunny day, and I see this leg of a deer, like, just fresh kill with blood on the ground.
I was like, God!
Damn, what the hell?
Wow, that's fresh.
I was like, huh.
I kind of keep going and come around the corner and there's a long straightaway.
The hill goes up like this.
And I see what looks like a big, like, greyhound dog.
Kind of like brown.
Kind of walking kind of back and forth like this with a tail.
And I was like, man, who the hell is greyhound is doing out here?
Like, what the hell is...
That's a mountain lion.
I was like, holy shit.
And the mountain lion turns around and looked at me.
And I had my kid.
I was like, shit, I... So I grabbed my dog, and I turned around, and I started running, and I knew that I shouldn't be running.
So I'm running going, I shouldn't be running, I shouldn't be running, I know I shouldn't be running, but I wanted to get around the corner and get out of its line of sight.
And then I go...
unidentified
I go, well, if he comes up on me, I'm going to have to throw my dog.
But I remember looking at him, and I was looking at my dog going, oh, man, this is a horrible decision I have to make, but if it comes down to it, I'm going to have to sacrifice you, buddy.
Okay, so there was a guy, Nick Pope, who investigated as part of the UFO desk at the Ministry of Defense of England in the late 90s, mid to late 90s.
Maybe in as late as early 2000s.
But in any case, and I was interviewing him for a number of my films.
I did a film called Out of the Blue, I Know What I Saw, before I did The Phenomenon.
And I asked him, like, hey, man, you were a part of the UFO desk at the MOD. What was the best case you ever saw?
And he goes, oh, man.
1990. He didn't give me the town.
It was Calvine.
But he said, Scotland, there were two poachers.
They called them hikers, but they were actually poaching.
And so it made me think about this when we were talking about animals earlier.
And he said it was late in the afternoon.
They were in a place.
I now know it's called Calvine.
And they came upon, in this relatively remote area, I know because I hiked out to the exact spot, and it's in the movie, but And they came upon this diamond-shaped or disc-shaped object that was quite large that was hovering silently really close.
I mean close.
And they were scared to death and they were kind of hiding out underneath this tree and they're looking at this thing like, what the are we looking at?
And they're looking at this thing as it's silently hovering.
Remember, this is 1990, okay?
And one of them had a camera.
And just as he was considering taking his camera out, a military jet came in.
Turns out it was one of those Harrier jet.
They think it was a Harrier jet.
And it came out into the scene and it flew all the way around the disc.
And as it did so, the guy mustered up the courage, came out from under the tree, and he snapped five or six photographs of this object suspended in the air, and it went...
So the disc is here, and the plane is flying around.
And the reason why I know this is because the individual who kept one of the prints, thank you very much, Craig Lindsay, RAF Press Officer, and thank you, David Clark, for uncovering this because it's the most amazing picture ever.
And the two hotel workers just outside the town of Calvine, Scotland, Came back and they were like telling their co-workers, oh my god, we encountered this thing, we don't know what it was.
So they go to the local newspaper and they were like, hey man, we just filmed something in the sky.
We got six prints of it.
It was 35mm film footage, right?
And they're going to go public with their story.
Two witnesses, broad daylight, a UFO, points of reference, with a military jet flying around, five or six prints.
That's pretty solid evidence, right?
So, uh...
The local newspaper was like, they're about to go public with it, print the story, and they were like, well, we need a statement from the RAF. So they contacted the press officer, Craig Lindsay, and they were like, hey, what do you make of this UFO these guys took?
And Craig Lindsay goes, I don't know what you're talking about.
I haven't seen the picture.
You haven't seen it?
Well, let me send you a print.
This is the newspaper.
Sends him a print, big print like this, the one you see today, and he's like, holy shit, the hell is this?
He's an RAF press officer, Craig Lindsay, and he's like, so he starts getting in touch with the MOD and he goes out and he investigates this, go talk to the witnesses, talk to the witnesses, and they were telling him, And he goes, well, they tell him what happened, and he goes, well, what kind of noise did it make?
And they say, it didn't make any noise.
He goes, no noise?
That's impossible.
An object that can hover like that in the sky for that period of time?
We're talking 34 years ago.
It didn't make any noise?
And the witness said, no.
So he was like, holy, this is crazy.
So he takes a color Xeroxing machine, and he sends it to the MOD in London, and he says, hey, there's a case that you might want to look into, and here's a Xerox, which is really crappy.
It's just a scanned Xerox, like a fax machine, over to MOD. He said he went from the office where the Xerox machine was, and before he can get back to his office, his phone was ringing off the hook.
MOD. And the MOD basically stepped in, took over the investigation.
They said, you can step down to Craig Lindsay.
He steps down.
He keeps the print, right?
He steps down.
They take over.
Witnesses gone.
Five or six prints gone.
Story killed, right?
So, 30, and we'd rumored about it because Nick Pope had talked about this case in a book he wrote called Open Skies, Closed Minds.
And then I talked to him about it in late 90s, then I talked to him about it again in the early 2000s, and I was like, Nick, especially in 2007, I was like, tell me about this photograph.
And he's like, oh, it was incredible.
We had a big poster of it on the wall, the MOD, and I was like, well, where is it?
He goes, well, I don't know.
I stepped down.
I'm no longer at the UFO desk.
And I said, well, they didn't just throw that away.
Why don't you get in touch with the people that were there and find out?
He's like, oh, you know, James, I can't just make those inquiries.
We killed the story.
It was like, you know, so I was incredibly frustrated.
So discreetly for over a 20-year period, I was making inquiries because I don't like letting things go, right?
It was like, this picture exists.
And bloody hell, let's get this one out there.
But...
The story went dark.
So David Clark found Craig Lindsay, and the way he found Craig Lindsay, the guy that kept one of the prints, is that he got a declassified government document out of the MOD's office that had redactions on it.
And one of the things it said was, it was 1990, and they said, RAF press officer in Scotland, blacked out, you know, said that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And he was like, huh.
Who was the RAF press officer in 1990 in Scotland?
Craig Lindsay.
Boom, contacts Craig Lindsay.
They started communication going, and then after like...
And so this whole dialogue starts going, developing a...
And then he goes, well, gosh, I guess I might have one.
It turns out he ended up keeping one of those prints, which he had.
And that story broke probably two years ago.
David Clark, again, I can't thank you enough.
You deserve accolades for this.
And so I flew to England.
I met with David Clark and his crew, the people that did the analysis work.
Then I went up to Scotland.
I met with Craig Lindsay, the RF press officer, gave me the first and only on-camera interview about it, what astonished him about it, the analysis work they did on it, what the witnesses said.
But we didn't have the witnesses.
The people that took the photograph.
We didn't have them, but I was going to report on this anyway, just because, wow, this is the picture that we've all been waiting for.
This picture is phenomenal.
But if you don't have provenance and you don't have the background story on it, it could be AI, it could be right, it could be a hoax.
Some people call it a reflection.
Not a reflection, not a hoax.
I'm ending production of the program, and I get a text from David Clark, and he goes, something big's about to happen.
And I said, what?
He goes, just sit tight.
I can't go public right now, but something big's about to happen.
But I was like, well, I'm almost done with the movie.
And if this is something I can include in the movie about the case, please let me know.
So long story short, this guy, Richard Greaves, who was one of the hotel cooks, worked in the kitchen with the photographers, with the two witnesses that took the photograph.
And Richard Greaves came forward on print.
But I contacted David Clark.
I was like, hey, can you get me an interview with this guy?
So he kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off, and then finally, I didn't want to be persistent, but I didn't want to annoy the guy to the point where he's like, hey, you know what?
Fuck you.
You're being annoying.
But I got it right up to that point, where I was like, I was wrapping the movie.
The movie's done, and I want to get this movie out, because all the people that participated wanted it out.
And then I finally sent him one final text, and I was like, look, I'm really sorry to pastor you, and I know you're probably really busy, and I really appreciate the fact that you even said that you'll meet me, but that you'll give me an interview.
And then probably about 10 o'clock that night, I'm in the edit room buttoning the film up, and all of a sudden I get a phone call, and he's like, I've just come out of the pub, and I'm ready to go.
I was like, okay, grab a camera, roll it, let's record this.
And he reveals that he knew the witnesses.
He worked with them in the kitchen.
He gave all the specifics.
He provided their names.
And then he said that two or three nights, four nights after they took that photograph, they were all on a cigarette break at the hotel early evening, pissing rain.
He said a car rolled up.
There were three guys in it, a driver and two men in suits in the back.
They roll up, they come out, they say cigarette breaks over, they pull the two witnesses aside, and they grill him.
And you got to hear it directly from the horse's mouth.
Richard Greaves said that when they were all, the people that were not involved with the incident were told to go back inside the hotel, which they did, but they looked through the window and they saw in the pissing rain, he said they were out there for 10 or 15 minutes in the pissing rain, And that these guys, they came back inside and they were white as a...
He literally goes, they came back inside and they were white as a fucking ghost!
Which we all get a good laugh out of.
And then they started drinking heavily and within a couple of weeks they vanished without a trace and they've been gone ever since.
Well, like I said, in the other prints, according to Craig Lindsay, the RAF press officer, he said the other six prints or five prints had that Harrier jet in a different position.
So he said it was as if the Harrier jet flew around checking that out.
I mean, again, I think it's one of the best photographic cases because you're not dealing with just a UFO. You've got a military jet in the background.
And if you have a date and a location, guess what?
That pilot's still out there.
That pilot probably got it on radar and probably got gun cam for it.
Here, there's that one, and there's flip left to right on it.
But, you know, it just goes to show the lengths that the Intel community, the Ministry of Defense, the DOD go to hide the more compelling photographic data, because it's so easy to complain, like, oh, well, if they were real, there would be good...
So, let me tell you a little story that's pretty cool, which I never thought that this would happen.
There's a guy, Kirk McConnell, who's Senate Armed Service Committee, and he participated at the very last minute in my film.
He's in the trailer.
And he, in an official capacity with a high-level clearance, he had been investigating UFOs ever since the New York Times article in 2017. So he was behind the scenes 2017, 2018, the tail end of 2017. 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 22, 23, 24, and then he stepped down.
And he came through some intel folks.
We got in touch, and I said, hey, man, my film's almost done.
If you want, I could squeeze in one final interview.
He decided to participate.
Up he went.
We became friends.
We've been talking.
And he said, So I went to the congressional hearings, which was incredible.
And people say, oh, it was a big nothing burger.
But you know what?
It was very exciting.
Seeing people testify under oath that there's a crash for evil program.
Seeing an rear admiral, Tim Gallaudet, saying that they're under the water.
I mean, it's pretty fascinating stuff.
So I had to apply for a security background on me, which was about 48 hours.
And then I got approval for that.
And then I showed up at a wing across the street from the Pentagon.
And I had to go through the metal detector, and then there are these, kind of exciting for me, because I had never had this kind of experience before.
There were these, like, glass tube-type things that were lined up, like, in a row, and only one person can go in at a time.
The doors open, just like in Star Trek, and you walk in, and that door closes, and another one opens, and you go through the other side.
Then I had to get rid of my phone and everything and leave it outside, and then I go into a skiff.
Which is a sensitive compartmented information facility.
It's gifts, all super top secret, whatever.
And I got to meet with the new head of Arrow, John Koskowski.
I was like, I can't believe I'm in the belly of the beast.
This is crazy.
How could I? I'm a civilian.
I don't belong here.
But we started talking, just very nonchalantly.
I said, hey, you guys got to throw us a bone.
I said, you know, we're not going away.
This story is not going away.
And I said, and you know what we're ultimately dealing with.
I mean, obviously, the vast majority of UAP or UFOs can be and have been explained away in down-to-earth conventional terms, right?
But there's a stubborn core 15%, 20% that really defy conventional explanation, not because of a lack of data, because they truly can't explain what these things do.
And you know well, you've had many people on.
These objects exhibit a technology that's just light years advanced from anything that we have.
And it's been well-documented since the 1940s, and possibly some people would say way before that.
But modern-day UFO wave, no question.
So there's two stories.
One is, someone's been in possession of this revolutionary technology for 85-plus years and kept it secret.
Or two, we're not alone, right?
So I said...
I said to the gentleman, very candidly, you know, we're probably dealing with a small percentage of NHI, and what's the plan to tell the general public?
And this was just a couple weeks ago.
And he looked at me and he goes, James, I can't part my hair without approval from the DOD. And you can quote me on that.
And that was him, in my opinion, telling me, hey, this is structured in a way that my hands are tied.
I can uncover all the things in the world, but I can't tell the general public or even Congress without the DOD approving it first.
So that's what's kind of happening right now.
And one of the reasons why we were so fortunate to get the number of, I say, whistleblowers or potential whistleblowers or people to come forward in the program is because they were super frustrated with the previous head of era, which is a guy named Sean Kirkpatrick, Which basically just kind of blanket, you know, denied pretty much almost everything.
Yep, they showed up and they intimidated the shit out of the witnesses.
And I know people can criticize me for reporting on these alleged men in black, but it's not me saying it, it's the witnesses that are saying it.
And I did it full bore for the first time, full bore for the first time in Moment of Contact, because I remember hearing these stories for decades, and I finally was like, everyone's going to think I'm crazy if I report on this, but this lady who was the mother of the two daughters that had these visits and the intimidation, and I was like, screw it, I'm just going to report on this, and I'll just take the criticism, you know?
And then I wasn't expecting this to be the case with this photograph, but lo and behold, it was.
But anyway, it's a huge story.
In my opinion, they can't put the genie back in the bottle.
It's coming out, and it's drip, drip, drip.
But I have to remind your audience, people that are feeling impatient, that we've had three open congressional hearings in the last three years.
It's definitely, even though it's still difficult to get information and figure out what's actually going on, there's way more open mainstream discussion of it.
Why can't they just say, why can't David Grush just tell us?
Well, I can remind people that the DOD has stripped David Grush of his clearances and won't allow him to get into a skip.
This is one of the things that I talked to this guy, Brian Benner, who appears in the movie Politico, and he goes, if Congress finds out about it, one thing we know on the Hill is that you're going to find out about it.
They can't keep a secret.
It's going to leak.
So they've been doing everything they can, I imagine it's the DOD, to prevent Grush from going into a skip with members of Congress to release and reveal The classified details necessary to verify his claims, okay?
If you've been keeping this under wraps for 60 plus years or whatever they've been doing, would you really tell AOC? Would you really pull her aside and tell her?
So here's another thing I'd like to mention is that David Grush claims that he gave even a street address to the ICIG, which is Thomas Monheim.
That's the Intelligence Community Inspector General.
So I'm asking members of Congress to support all their efforts.
You know, Burchett, who's been amazing, regardless of what your politics, the guy's a phenomenon.
He's been really pushing for transparency.
He's a super solid guy.
You got Mace.
You got Moskowski from Florida.
Garcia from California, AOC, New York, Luna, and then of course you got the Senate side, you got Rubio, who totally knows where this stuff is, Rounds, Schumer, and if you look at the NDAA, you can see the language in plain sight.
I mean, it's phenomenal what's going on, and I I think that our elected officials that are really pushing for transparency need to hear from us, need to hear from the citizens and know that we support their efforts and that we have their backs and continuing to push for transparency, to push to find out what the hell is going on.
I mean, imagine if it's true.
Imagine if we have spaceships and we have biologics, bodies, okay?
That is not just...
Implications for the United States, that's global implications.
I mean, the impacts, the ripple effect that would have around the world for that confirmation to happen.
I mean, if you could put a nuke on one of those things, I mean, the exhibited technology that people say, people that have witnessed this stuff say it goes from a standstill to out of sight in the blink of an eye.
I have a problem with that theory, and the problem I have is that the United States government has documented close encounters of a third kind.
That's beings connected.
That's their own files, right?
That's not me saying it.
So it's not just these objects exhibiting revolutionary technology for at least 80 years, right?
No wings, no tail, no visible means of propulsion, the ability to hover, accelerate, out of sight in the blink of an eye, right angle turns at high speed, no wake, no sonic boom.
Yeah.
That kind of stuff.
But you also have reports, credible reports of beings connected to some of the craft.
The whole thing, like, just because something's written down somewhere doesn't mean that someone didn't write it down as a psyop, someone didn't write it down to discredit other people with a ridiculous story.
One way to discredit a credible story is to attach it to a bunch of ridiculous stories.
So if I was going to hide some sort of technology, one thing I would do is connect it to a bunch of kooky stuff, a bunch of psychic stuff and remote viewing, just a bunch of things that people very easily dismiss.
UFO abductions, UFO encounters, encounters with an actual being.
But put a bunch of stuff in there that makes people go, what?
Is this real?
And just enough.
Just enough so that you can hide the real stuff in there.
And again, I've said this earlier in the show, and I'll say it again, is like, the reason why I believe David Grush, who testified, not just because he testified...
I know, but the reason why I believe him is because it aligns with my research in the field.
Remember, I spent over 12 years investigating on and off with my buddy Marco Leal in Virginia, Brazil, That UFO crash case and only found out last minute, the last time I was there, that the Americans were involved.
So I was like, oh my God, the rumors are true.
You know, the Americans really are.
Do you see, like, I obviously looked into Roswell for years.
We give you the aid, but if a crash UFO, you fucking call us.
Stay out of there.
Don't be carrying that dude to the hospital.
Leave it to us, and then we'll just scoop that up and shut the fuck up.
What do you think about that?
One of the craziest stories is that there's a building somewhere that's an enormous building that was actually built around the UFO because the UFO was too big to move.
That was through the Dobster process was released.
Unfortunately, some of the names are redacted.
Christopher Mellon obtained it.
It was from a correspondence he had with a high-level government official back in 2020. It just got approved for release, I don't know, maybe a year ago.
It's featured in the doc.
And in it, it has the names of not just the gatekeeper, but other names who found the gatekeeper to the crash retrieval program.
I'm told that unredacted versions of that have been handed to select members of Congress and people that are investigated in an official capacity for the government.
But in it, they specifically mention a case, not crash, a landed case that happened in 1953 at Cayman, Arizona.
So I've made some inquiries with aerospace folks that I've been meeting with quietly, and I'm like, what's this case that you guys keep talking about with the King in Arizona?
They're like, oh, it was like they just landed and left.
I was like, well, how do you know they landed?
What do you mean landed and left?
And they're like, well, the doors are open and nobody home, and they walked off.
I said, you mean somebody just flew this thing down, it landed on the ground in the desert, and came in Arizona in 1953, and they left the doors open and left, and they were like, yep, that's pretty much what happened.
Well, if you're coming here from somewhere else and you wanted to hide in plain sight, you would hide in the ocean, especially if you have the technology to completely negate any of the effects of the water and the pressure.
Definitely not a homemade one like the one those people died in.
Yeah, but that was there's another thing about that case when the people went down that submarine apparently I Guess it's the Navy has some sort of very sophisticated underwater audio sensors And they heard the implosion and they knew about it like immediately and didn't report on it Well, I mean I think the problem with reporting on is that you have to report on your technology now So I don't even know if this has been confirmed, but this is what I had heard and Methods and means?
Well, it's also, it's got to be top secret.
It's got to be one of those things where if you're going to reveal that you heard that, you have to have clearance to do it.
As somebody who's been chasing this story for 30 years, I too want access to the better, more compelling data.
That's why I chased after that photograph I just shared with you earlier on for as long as I did, because I hear about something and I go after it.
But I want to remind your audience, You can't go after something without knowing that it exists.
So you get the leads.
We're learning more about the programs.
We're learning how these programs are hidden.
These WUSAPs, they're waived, unacknowledged, special access programs, probably hidden somewhere in the DO. I know, it sounds crazy.
But at least giving some guidance to where are these things and how these things are hidden, where they might be found.
We reveal there's a gentleman in the film called Navy X. And people are like, ah!
It's another person testifying anonymously.
Well, yes, true.
But he gives us specifics on telling members of Congress where to look, to find specifics.
JWICS, what is it?
And this is where to find the more compelling data.
I'm going to read this because it's important that people know that.
He's saying, look, I've seen it, and this is where it is.
It's called, the official UAP data is kept either in CIPR, Secret Internet Protocol Router Network, or JWICS, Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communication System, that's used by the DoD and only available in a SCIF. And a SCIF is a sensitive compartmented information facility.
So...
Is it frustrating to hear that?
And people criticize, oh, it's just another person.
But he's saying, I've seen it.
It's phenomenal.
He gives descriptions of some of the stuff he saw.
And he's telling members of Congress, if you have the clearances, this is where it's being kept.
So those are very good specifics.
And again, I remind you guys, like, okay, just be patient.
I want to get back to what I was talking about earlier.
Logistically, if you're letting something go from the ocean, if you're flying it out of the ocean, logistically, you would have to have some sort of a large craft out there that's going to house these things, or it's going to launch from.
But if they need to patrol those guys, if they are really looking for a nuke, okay?
Let's imagine that this story about, you know, a Ukrainian nuke from the time when they disarmed them, there's one that's unaccounted for.
This is one of those stories that's been on the internet.
I don't know if it's true.
That it's unaccounted for and that they think it's headed to the United States.
If you were trying to find that thing, Like a dirty bomb?
Yeah, or like just a regular nuke, that if you're looking for gamma rays, you could devise a drone that could search for that, and you'd fly it over an area, and you wouldn't care whether people freaked out, because it's more important to find this goddamn thing.
So if you have this technology, it's some skunkworks technology.
It almost seems too sexy that the United States has that kind of ability and they're just flying these things around and that they're doing it for that specific reason, to find a nuke.
It's like that we have this kind of technology that none of us are aware of.
That we have these drones that can shut off when you come close to them.
The lights shut off.
They disappear.
They avoid tracking the RF signal.
It doesn't show up.
They're cool.
They have some sort of cooling mechanism in them, so it's difficult to see with infrared.
I don't understand any of that.
He was saying that's above what we can do right now.
But they're not moving in a way necessarily.
That's not possible with drone technology that is mainstream.
But there's some aspects of the way they move and what they're doing that doesn't lead them to believe that this is current state-of-the-art technology as far as we know it.
We were talking about this as well, that the bottleneck in America was the FAA. The FAA put a lot of restrictions on the manufacture of drones and how you can do them, what you can do.
China doesn't have any of that, so they're full steam ahead with innovation.
If you look at what...
Drone manufacturers in the United States have been able to do and then imagine untethered if they weren't fucked over by all these regulations that got in the way of innovation.
Obviously you have to have one because if you have some commercial drone that someone can buy that can move 500 miles an hour and fly through the air and stay up there for six hours at a time and film video of everything and anything, Well, and you can't control it.
You can't block the radar screen.
You can't find it with infrared.
That's pretty nuts.
So I would imagine that would not be a thing they would want in the hands of the average American person.
Langley Air Force Base did experience incursions of unauthorized, unmanned aerial systems in last year, December 2023, says Sabrina Singh, Pentagon spokeswoman.
The number of those UAS incursions did fluctuate, but they didn't appear to exhibit any hostile intent.
No, well, so he holds his rifle up, and he's looking through the scope, and he goes, Jan, I'm a metal worker.
I work with metal.
I know what metal looks like.
And he's looking through the scope, and he goes, man, there's no rivets.
There's no seams.
There's no weld marks.
He's like, there were these, on the belly of it, there were these reverse, like, recessed cones.
It's, like, bigger, and then they got smaller as it went up into the belly of the craft.
He's looking up at it and his finger's on the trigger and he's like, man, I wonder if it wasn't that hard.
I go, I wonder what would happen if I just pulled the trigger here and I bet it would ricochet off or hit the belly or something.
So he's looking at it and he's just about to pull the trigger to check it out and he goes, hmm, maybe this isn't such a good idea.
I interviewed him in 2008 when this was going down, and then about a year later, I was doing some follow-up interviews for a film I did, I Know What I Saw, and I had this gentleman walk up to me, and I was filming in the downtown square in Stephenville, or it might have been Dublin, and...
This gentleman looks at me and he goes, you Mr. Fox?
And I was like, yes.
And he pulls out a badge and he shows me his badge.
And he's like, can I talk to you for a minute?
I'm officer of so-and-so.
And I was like, Jesus Christ, what the hell did I do?
And I said, yeah, sure.
And we walk off to a cafe and he goes...
He's looking at his back.
He had his back to the wall in the cafe so he could see everybody coming in.
He was really paranoid.
And he said, you know Ricky Sorrells?
I said, yeah.
He goes, that guy's telling the truth.
I said, how do you know?
He goes, because the whole police department saw it.
I can't remember if it was Dublin Police Department or Stephenville.
I think it was Dublin Police Department.
He goes, yeah, man, we...
He said, we...
We were sitting in our patrol cars and this object was like a floating department storm.
It was absolutely colossal like a city.
Took out my radar gun, pointed at it, and it was doing 22 miles an hour.
And then he said it drifted off and one of the officers, I don't remember the name of the gentleman, took his dash cam and he flipped it up and he filmed it.
And apparently one of the biggest mistakes this individual made, this police officer made, was that he didn't make a copy of it because the local Air Force base requested that film footage and got it.
And so I've been telling people to go after that stuff exists.
But my point is, this object was so big, people claimed that witnesses, the first-hand witnesses, that you had landed an airplane on it.
Like, if I saw it, if I was outside in the desert, and I was just chilling, and something so big that I couldn't see the edges of it flew overhead, I don't know what I'd say.
He goes, It went from this, a complete standstill, and it went straight up, like at a slight angle, but straight up and gone.
He goes, James, I said, describe the acceleration.
He goes, hell, I'll tell you, the best way I can describe it is that had I blinked, I would have missed it.
That's how fast it took off.
So it went from here, like that.
He had helicopters hovering over his—I know this sounds crazy, but people are going to be like, oh, this big—but he had helicopters flying over his property for a while, right around the time that I was trying to get him to go on camera.
He came out in his underwear and his shotgun late at night with his helicopter spotlighting him up, and he ended up calling the local Air Force base and said, stop flying over my house at night.
And they said, we suggest you stop talking about what you saw.
And so he was kind of spooked.
And about eight months later, he finally decided that he was going to go public with the story.
There seems to be an attraction almost like a moth to a flame with nukes.
Somehow they're interested in our nuclear capabilities.
And I remember interviewing Robert Salas, who was a launch control officer, who described this whole event at Malmstrom Air Force Base in the 60s.
Where these UFOs were witnessed on the base, and then all their Minutemen missiles started getting shut down.
And I remember saying to him, like, well, what's your take on that?
Like, what kind of, you know, and he goes, and I realized why this individual was a launch control officer, because he was so measured and so calm and so cool.
And he goes, well, James, the message I got was kind of clear.
It's almost like taking matches out of the hands of a baby.
So, you know, with the phenomenon, you look at what they do, right?
And that says some things.
They've done some pretty brazen events, right?
Over the decades.
But you also look at what they don't do.
Because if the phenomenon wanted to end this, like, you know, secrecy once and for all, all they'd have to do is hover over the Macy's Day Parade or the next big Super Bowl and it's game over.
They don't do that.
They've done some pretty brazen things, right?
I mean, case in point, March 13th, 97, over the state of Arizona, including the governor, Fife Simon, witnessed that massive—there were a number of UFOs witnessed, but the main one, you know, was this big boomerang-shaped craft.
And even the governor said it must have been at least a mile across from wingtip to wingtip that floated.
And I actually interviewed people that worked at Luke Air Force Base at the time, and they said that they scrambled jets to intercept this thing.
And I interviewed a number of people that saw that craft.
I mean, that stood on their, that light down on their lawns and watched it float over the top of them.
And apparently, according to this individual that I met in the late 90s at Luke Air Force Base, they scrambled a military jet to intercept this thing.
He came up on it, could have landed on the damn thing.
It was so big.
And it went from moving very, very slowly to accelerating like warp drive.
Boom, just gone.
When the jet came back to the base, Luke Air Force Base, they had to carry him out of the plane, I'm told, because he was so shaken by what he saw.
I was the one that got him to break his silence after 10 years.
And he told me, and I don't necessarily know that I fully believe it...
But he told – because initially when it happened in March – remember, the vast majority of people were out under the night sky to get a glimpse of the Hellbomb comet.
So it was witnessed all the way across the state of Arizona and even in Nevada, southern Nevada.
And yeah, there he is.
Fife told me that it was growing hysteria.
But initially he had set out – And he said, we're going to find out.
I'm contacting Luke Air Force Base, reached out to the Pentagon, and all these various services, and we're going to get to the bottom of it.
And then, I don't know how much longer it was.
Was it later that day, or was it the next day?
He held an unscheduled press conference, and that's when he had his aides dressed up in an alien suit and made a mockery of it all.
And I can assure you, pissed the hell off his constituents and the witnesses all across the state of Arizona.
They were furious.
And...
I confronted him on that 10 years after the fact, because I was pissed off.
I was investigating that case when it happened in the 90s.
And I interviewed a lot of really good witnesses, really good witnesses.
And he said the reason why he did it was because of growing hysteria, that he wanted to calm down the hysteria.
But did he get a phone call just saying, hey, kill this story?
I'd have to really do a deep dive into it, but let me tell you what happened, because this is brilliant.
So what happened was, you got this massive object from around 5.30 at night in the southern Nevada, and then it drifts down very slowly from north to south across the entire state of Arizona, and right around 7.30, 8, 8.30, the Berry-Goldwater mountain range, which is the direction it was heading in, the military decides to drop a bunch of flares.
And so people were like, oh, there it is!
And a bunch of people filmed the flares.
So in my opinion, it was a diversionary tactic that was brilliantly done, because why the military suddenly decided to drop flares in the shape of, somewhat of the shape.
So I think that some of the footage that you've seen out there is military flares, but there's And there was an effort, I don't know if you want to get into it right now, but there was an effort by the so-called MIB, these men in black, or whatever unknown government agency they come from, that took some footage that I was learning about.
During my investigations in the 90s and then you're looking at me like I'm crazy.
So the first time I really heard a really credible report of the MIB and I decided not to report on it was when I was in touch with a woman who was councilwoman, Frances Barwood, who was one of the few officials in Phoenix area that was saying, hey, let's investigate what these people are claiming to have seen.
She's not saying aliens have landed.
All she's saying is, hey, these people have a right to know what's going on.
Let's launch an investigation.
She was lambasted over the media, made fun of, ridiculed.
But as a result of her inquiry, public inquiry, and putting it out there, one of these individuals reached out to her.
And I know this because I know her, Francis Barber, and I heard the whole story.
And he was a...
He was a Vietnam vet, and he was on the roof of his house with a tripod and a camera, and he was trying to get a glimpse.
He was trying to film the pale bob comet.
And he had walkie-talkies, and he was monitoring the truck drivers driving up Interstate 10 from Tucson to Phoenix.
And so he's monitoring this, and he hears these truckers talking about a massive UFO, and he's like, shit, that's heading right towards my house.
He was like, I'll film it.
So he had a camera all ready to go, and the object went right over his house, according to him, and he filmed the whole thing.
And he goes, yeah, I filmed the whole thing.
It's pretty spectacular.
And I know that you're launching an investigation, Frances Barrawe.
Would you like to see it?
And she said, yeah.
So they made arrangements where he was going to drop it off at her office.
Either later that day or first thing the next morning, two representatives, and it was July at this point, and it was very hot, two men in dark suits showed up at his house, and they said, hey, um...
He was apparently relieved that's all he wanted.
He said they were quite menacing looking.
Didn't really say a lot.
They said, we're from Francis Barwood's office.
We're here to pick up that footage.
So he gives them the footage.
He said, the only question they ask him is, did they make any copies?
And he said, no.
And so they take the footage.
Off they go.
Well, he doesn't hear from Francis Barwood.
He's like, what the hell?
So a couple of days go by, I think possibly up to a week.
He calls her up and he says, and Francis will tell you this.
She'll validate what I'm telling you.
He says, hey, what'd you think of the footage?
She goes, well, what do you mean when I think of the footage?
I never got it.
You were going to drop it off at my office and you didn't show up.
He goes, well, I didn't have to.
You had two men from your office show up and pick it up.
She goes, I didn't send anybody around to your office.
And I know at the time, in the late 90s, I'd heard a couple of stories prior to that.
I thought, this is too out there.
This is too outlandish.
No one's going to believe this.
I have no proof of this other than her testimony.
Screw it.
And I didn't report on it.
But hearing those cases over and over and over, it's like, there we go.
Once again, the so-called evidence that could prove or disprove one way or the other that something truly extraordinary took place in the skies over Phoenix back in 1997 vanished.
But there is some that slip between the cracks that's out there.
You just have to do due diligence.
And I don't have the time to sip through all of it.
I talked to another woman, Stacy Rhodes, and her daughter Emily, and they said they were driving on Interstate 10, and she goes, look, James, I'm going to tell you how big this thing was.
I said, how big?
She goes, first of all, there were people stopped on the freeway, just like stopped as this thing.
It was like close encounters floating over there.
She goes, I could have held up a newspaper like this and looked to the left, looked to the right, looked at that, and she said, I couldn't block this thing out.
That's how big it was, and it didn't make a sound.
It was gunmetal black.
It was witnessed by a lot of people.
That's why I say there's some events that have happened over the decades that are pretty brazen, and that's one of them.
Well, when you get thousands of people seeing the same thing, if you see thousands of people saying the same thing, including the governor, the governor...
Eyewitness testimony and radar, some photographic, not as much as we'd like, that something truly inexplicable is taking place in our aerospace, right?
Something that, after careful examination, something that, not because of a lack of data in some instances, but that after careful analysis and research, investigation, that comes out the other end and says...
I can't explain this as going to have to be one of those unknowns or, you know, falls into that 15% category of cannot provide a terrestrial or conventional explanation for.
And those are the cases that I've so desperately have been going after for a long time.
But do you think that there's a real possibility, like within the next few years, that they just completely drop all the bullshit and come clean about this stuff?
Or would it take some sort of extraordinary event where they had to admit it?
Well, there was a case in China that happened in 1994, right around the time of Rua, Zimbabwe, also in 1994, called Mengziogua.
And it happened in the Black Mountains, and it was a landing, alleged contact, close to kind of the third kind.
It's funny because it happened right at the same time of Africa, similar message that was conveyed.
I went to China.
I met with an active general in uniform, talked openly about the UFO phenomenon.
They were pretty open.
I went to Russia in the late 90s.
And that was right before Putin.
It was right around the time when Putin was coming in.
And that was a period of openness.
And I went to Star City, Russia.
I interviewed a cosmonaut, Pavel Popovich, a number of generals.
And they were very open about it.
In fact, they said to me at the time, if you're here...
To discuss whether or not the UFO phenomenon is real, the door's right over there.
We're here to create an international coalition, an international exchange of information, and to talk about the implications of the phenomenon, which I thought was amazing.
This is like 25 years ago, right?
So now, I don't know if things have changed since Putin's been in office, but that was back in the late 90s.
I mean, they've been congressional hearings in Brazil.
There's been an effort.
I mean, shit, they had hearings back in 1978 at the United Nations that Lee Spiegel put on.
So there's been an ongoing effort for this stuff to come out.
I just think it's different this time.
To me, it feels like there's too much momentum behind it at this point.
And there's so much legislation that's written.
There's too much that's come out.
And it's too important.
Look, whether you believe it or you don't believe it, if you can just imagine for a moment if it is true and if the U.S. government does in fact have irrefutable evidence that we're not alone in the universe, that's so significant.
That we all have a right to that information and that we should continue to support this unprecedented push for transparency with our elected officials and get to the fucking bottom of it.
But I talked to people that were in the room when he was being briefed from first-handers.
I'm told that there were, I'm going to say right around 12 first-hand people that have had behind closed doors meetings.
First-hand people.
People that are concerned about their secrecy, concerned about their safety, concerned about the implications of them coming forward and going public, that they don't quite have, and this comes from a very good source of information, that the Witness Protection Program and the legislation that they've created around that is not quite there yet.
When I turned 30, I was like, oh, I'm 30, because just 10 years earlier, I was almost 19, right?
Or 11 years earlier, I was 19. Right.
You go from a teenager, suddenly you're 30, you always think like 30. And I was talking to him not too long ago, Jesse, and I said, he's like, yeah, I feel a little old.
I was like, dude, you are just getting into your prime, baby.
This is rock and roll time.
But I really wanted to, this is a guy who's young, Julian Doria is also doing some amazing work on this in podcasts, but he was young and is doing a deep dive into the implications and into...
He's documented it with these podcasts, and he's doing a fantastic job, and I just got to tip my hat to the guy because...
He's ten times smarter than I'll ever be and he's young and he's a force to be reckoned with and he's really doing he's answering all the questions that you and I are exploring all these issues that you and I are talking about.
Well, I'm glad there's people out there pushing it, and I'm glad there's guys like Grush that are sticking their neck out, and guys like you who are making documentaries about it.
The subject is much more open to discussion, like I was saying, amongst serious people, where it didn't used to be before.
And now I think with this drone thing, I think there's so many people that are going, okay, even if they're ours, or they're China's, what's going on?
Why are there so many of them?
What are the answers, and why can't you tell us?
Is it because they're searching for a nuke?
Jesus Christ, maybe you should warn people and get the fuck out of here.
And for some reason, they want to keep people in suspense.
I can't imagine it's the enemy, because if it was the enemy, they'd blast it out.
Even if they were late, they'd blast it out.
Something strange is going on for some reason they don't want to tell the people and they should because the people are really I mean they happen to be over Bedminster They're very close to Bedminster.
I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster.
unidentified
I've decided to cancel my trip Yeah, I think I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster.
This is all about exactly what we're talking about.
This is something that I really need to put out there because it's very important.
And it's an unprecedented effort spearheaded by this woman, Andrea, who runs a number of communities on Reddit.
And she said that they're banding together for the first time ever...
It's the biggest grassroots campaign for government transparency.
This is happening on Friday the 20th of December at 3 p.m.
Eastern Time.
And this has the potential to reach millions and millions of people.
It's the most unprecedented event on Reddit in history.
And I'll post all of the necessary information on X because this is a very grassroots effort.
And what are they doing?
At James C. Fox on X, formerly known as Twitter.
The Reddit community is banding together for a huge grassroots campaign for government transparency.
So basically all the various platforms on Reddit, like Paranormal, UFO, they don't usually get along too well, but they're all combining their resources and they're getting together for the first time ever.
And to push for government transparency, there's a couple of government insiders that appear in my film that will be appearing on this to answer questions and what steps need to be happening, what's going on today, and this is happening on the 20th of December.
3 p.m., and I'll be posting more information, the very specific details on X at James C. Fox.
I just wanted to get that out there before because...
Numerous children have been reported across New Jersey and other East Coast.
Okay.
It's incredible how fast this is.
Look how fast.
Look at this.
This is incredible.
They found no evidence suggesting threat to national security or public safety.
Despite these assurances, some local officials and residents remain concerned.
For instance, Belleville Mayor Michael Melham...
Speculated the increased drone activity might be related to the search for missing radioactive material from the medical facility in New Jersey.
Additionally, the public figures like Bethany Frankel have shared unverified theories about the drone's purposes, further fueling speculation.
The situation is evolving and authorities continue to monitor and investigate new reports.
Residents are advised to report any suspicious drone activity to local law enforcement and avoid taking matters into their own hands like shooting them down.
People are shooting them down.
They're shooting them down!
They're eating the dogs!
They're eating the cats!
It's the same thing to shoot down drones as it could pose safety risks and violate laws.
Now ask ChatGPT...
Let's just keep going with ChatGPT for a little bit because you're asking it again.
Ask ChatGPT, if I live in New Jersey, should I get out of town?
While it's possible to imagine scenarios involving drones searching for dangerous materials such as a nuclear bomb, there's no verified information suggesting such an extreme situation.
A tic-tac-shaped craft remains one of the most compelling and well-documented UAP cases in modern history.
Key details of the encounter.
Craft describes smooth, white, oblong, resembling a tic-tac, no visible propulsion, wings or exhausts, played extraordinary flight characteristics, accelerated instantly from a hovering position, descended from 80,000 feet to near sea level in seconds.
Fravor reported the object mimicked his movements during their engagement and then vanished at extreme speed.
It's possible the craft was an ultra-secret military project, either U.S.-based experimental aircraft, aerospace technology, or developed by another nation.
However, the extreme flight performance raises doubt.
Such advanced technology would suggest a significant leap beyond publicly known capabilities, which is inconsistent with current engineering limits.
If all accounts of the capabilities of the Tic Tac craft are true, what are the possibilities that what are the possibilities that it came from another planet?
unidentified
What are the possibilities that it came from another planet?
Okay, so if the accounts of the Tic Tacs craft capabilities are accurate, instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic speeds without visible propulsion, no heat signatures and defiance of inertia, then the possibilities of origin being extraterrestrial or from another planet become a viable hypothesis.
Reported behavior of the craft suggests technology that operates beyond our current understanding of physics and propulsion systems.
No visible propulsion.
It implies propulsion system unrelated to conventional jets or rockets.
Instantaneous acceleration defies inertia.
In Newtonian physics, achieving this would require manipulating gravity or space-time itself.
Silent operation, no sonic booms, despite hypersonic speeds, points to a technology that likely eliminates air resistance, such as surrounding itself in an electromagnetic field or bubble.
This level of technological advancement far surpasses anything developed on Earth.
If true, such capabilities would suggest a highly advanced civilization, perhaps thousands or millions of years ahead of us scientifically.
If the Tic Tac UAP is real and the accounts are accurate, then its origin may very well be extraterrestrial or involve unknown physics and technology that we haven't begun to comprehend.
The extraordinary nature of the case suggests an equally extraordinary explanation.
What do you think?
Why are you asking me, bitch?
Your chat GPT. What do you think?
Does extraterrestrial visitation seem plausible?
Or is there another explanation that resonates more with you?
So type this.
I believe...
it seems plausible that they are extraterrestrial in nature.
Identifying where they might come from involves exploring nearby stellar systems, known exoplanets, and plausible scientific ideas about interstellar travel.
Here are the most likely possibilities.
Nearby star systems with habitable zones.
Alpha Centauri system 4.37 light years away the closest star system to Earth Proxima Centauri Potentially habitable planet exoplanet Orbiting Proxima Centauri within the habitable zone if life developed there might be technologically advanced enough for interstellar exploration Bernard so it's giving me a list of all the potential possibilities possible star systems that This one's only 39 light years away.
twins, right, as kids, say one's 10, they're both 10, and you put one in a spaceship that travels the speed of light for one year, he would come back with an atomic clock on board that spacecraft, a year older, CB-11, and his brother would be an old man.
So I think the idea is that instead of a rocket that goes 5 million miles an hour and just shoots off of Earth and keeps going until 5 million years from now, it runs into this planet.
I think it's different than that.
I think if I had to guess where something can manipulate gravity and space, what it would do is instantaneously appear in these new places.
Because Bob Lazar's version of it, that he told in 1989, kind of makes sense when you talk to people that are trying to develop some sort of a gravity or a warp drive.
And the way Bob Lazar explained it is that...
This element, when bombarded with radiation, creates this...
I'm really butchering it for sure.
Creates some sort of a...
Gravity field that allows it, the way he described it, like, if you took a mattress, a very soft mattress, and put a very heavy bowling ball in the middle of the mattress, it pushes the mattress down to that area, and that this, like, folds time.
If you think about how technology scales, and if we do, I mean, Ryan brought up this yesterday as well, that there was research and there was papers written about the idea of having some sort of a gravity drive.
Or having some sort of a gravity propulsion system, something that doesn't rely on conventional, you know, rockets, pushing gases out the back.
And he said that this was something that was discussed a long time ago, but then it just stopped.
And, you know, we brought it up quite a while ago, there was an episode that we brought up, a paper that was written in the 1960s about gravity drives.
If there's someone in the military that does have some super advanced satellite reconnaissance imagery of these things, I could see why they would hold that back.
I could see why they would think that people aren't ready for that.
Everybody talks about, I mean, even Ratcliffe talked about the satellite imagery of UAP. I mean, if they're picking it up, why wouldn't his systems pick it up?
We already know that AI systems, like Mike Baker explained to us, that AI systems with fighter jets beat actual fighter jet pilots 100% of the time.
Really?
Yes.
When they have these simulated dogfights, when they take AI fighter jets that we have right now, they beat our fighter jet pilots, the best of the best, 100% of the time.
So, they don't have any biological limitations in terms of what they can deal with the chief forces.
So you have that, right?
So all you have to do is make the equipment and the materials robust enough so they can take insane speeds and not blow apart.
But it certainly would be way easier to do that than it would be to get a human being to be safe in it.
Future wars are all about drones and hypersonic jets.
So this is us talking about that.
This is us talking about fighter jet pilots by humans will be destroyed very quickly.
So he talked about it.
So he put a clip up of us talking about it on the podcast.
This was in November, November 28th.
And so, neither side is air superiority and tanks are easily destroyed by missiles, so that leaves infantry and artillery, basically World War I. Drones are not yet available in sufficient numbers to matter, much like aircraft in World War I. A defense in depth trench war means, and then some modern example.
Yeah, he was alive, but his leg was so fucked up that they covered in a blanket so that passerbys wouldn't rubberneck it.
There's three of those.
And then another friend of mine saw someone get hit, saw someone get rear-ended, someone not paying attention in their car, rear-ended a bike, and had the guy flying through the air at a red light.
If you had to say whether you believed or you didn't believe, and look, you can't make any definitive statements.
I get that.
But you're a very influential individual.
I hate to use the word disclosure.
It's got a bit of a buzz, a bit of a connection to it.
A push for government transparency on this topic, right?
If you had to say something truly inexplicable that most likely would lead to NHI or non-human intelligence or not conventional, What would you pick, ultimately, that you think there is possibly a non-human intelligence behind this or that there is not?
Is there a propulsion system available in 2004 that's that far advanced?
And if so, how come there's so little evidence of it in, like, In a practical use, like how come that technology, you would think that technology would take so much money to develop that you would do something with it in 20 years.
You wouldn't just have it and just be flying it around like a drone every now and again.
It would seem like there would be some sort of a practical application for something like that.
And it seemed like the Manhattan Project and like the stealth bomber, eventually you find out that it's a real thing, right?
So 20 years is a long Time to not find out that something's real.
Yeah, you know, I was in Africa investigating the alleged landing and closing kind of the third kind at Rue Zimbabwe Aerial School in 1994. I wasn't there in 94. I was there much later.
And the teacher, Judy Bates, who's now the head principal, and she was sharing with me these drawings that children did of the alleged creatures.
And they were amazing, these drawings, big eyes and big heads, almond-shaped eyes, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm looking at these drawings, one after the other, from all these school children.
It was phenomenal.
No, I took photographs of them.
And then a month later, I went to Australia, and I was investigating an alleged landing that happened at Westall Primary School in 1966. And that was incredible.
I was there investigating, and I was showing some of the drawings of the alleged aliens that I just had investigated in Africa.
And some of the people were like, oh, wow, these drawings are amazing.
They look like the Wangina cave art.
I was like, the what?
The Wangina cave art, the aboriginals drew these things, and so they pulled it up, Wangina.
And the parallel, they're thousands of years old, right?
These cave paintings in Australia.
The parallels, the consistencies, the comparison of the two was like fantastic.