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May 1, 2024 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:39:24
Joe Rogan Experience #2143 - Tulsi Gabbard
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Main voices
j
joe rogan
01:20:27
t
tulsi gabbard
01:11:47
Appearances
j
jamie vernon
01:39
Clips
b
b-real
00:01
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
tulsi gabbard
Cheers.
joe rogan
Here we go.
This is the second time we ever worked out together.
tulsi gabbard
I know.
I feel great.
joe rogan
It was awesome, right?
tulsi gabbard
It was great.
joe rogan
It's a great way to get the day started.
tulsi gabbard
It was perfect, actually.
joe rogan
We do these, the comedian boot camps.
So today we did it with Hassan and Derek and Shane, Shane Gillis.
And we have fun.
So you get the workout in and you talk a lot of shit and you get silly.
It's really fun.
This is like real silly.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, we have a good time.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
Thanks for the invite.
joe rogan
Oh, my pleasure.
tulsi gabbard
I've been on the road for, I don't know, for weeks.
And so, you know, if you're lucky, you get a decent hotel gym.
unidentified
Right.
tulsi gabbard
But you got to be really creative.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
Most of them, the best they'll have are dumbbells and, you know, that's it.
joe rogan
I just realized you're the second celebrity to do that with us and the second Hawaiian.
Because The Rock did it.
unidentified
Samoan.
joe rogan
So it's like there's something going on.
tulsi gabbard
Samoan pride here.
joe rogan
Something going on with the Hawaiians coming here.
tulsi gabbard
We'll have to figure out, you know, Max Holloway is Hawaiian and Samoan, too.
joe rogan
He didn't work out, though.
Max, last time he was here, he was just off of his wind.
unidentified
He gets a break after that, man.
tulsi gabbard
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, take some time off, bro.
tulsi gabbard
I was telling you, the sauna, I am definitely from the islands because I'm okay with heat.
So 20 minutes in the sauna, it was good, it was challenging, but it was good.
The cold, however.
That ice bath.
I've done a quick polar plunge briefly.
Jumping in, jumping out.
joe rogan
And that one was at the lowest setting in terms of the jets of water.
So what we have is called a blue cube.
And blue cube is the type of cold plunge that has an engine in it that you can turn on to higher levels of waves.
So if you turn it to the highest level, it's just rushing at you like a river.
tulsi gabbard
Is that better or worse?
Horrible.
It's horrible.
joe rogan
You never develop a thermal barrier.
All cold water immersion is very good for you.
It's good for cold shock proteins, norepinephrine, mood stabilization, makes you feel better.
All those things are good.
But the still cold is much more tolerable.
I don't know what's better for you.
See, that's the question.
Is it better?
Is it just as good and more tolerable?
Or is it better to suffer for the full three minutes?
Because if you turn that bitch on...
tulsi gabbard
Suffer more.
Is the benefit proportional to the suffering is really the question, right?
unidentified
I'm not sure.
joe rogan
I'm not sure if you suffer more, if you get more benefit, or if there's a point where you're actually hurting your body.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
You know, like maybe there's a point...
I mean, obviously, if you stay in the cold water too long, you'll die.
That's what hypothermia is.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
But there's a level where if you just get a few minutes in, it's really good for you.
So I don't know if it's better if you're miserable.
unidentified
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, right.
joe rogan
I don't know.
But if you want to test your mind, that blue cube is the one to do because that sucker gets fast.
That sucker gets like a river.
So you're just laying in there and it's like shit.
tulsi gabbard
An assault of cold water.
joe rogan
The moment it sucks when you climb in, that moment never changes.
That's the difference.
Because in a regular cold plunge, after a while, you develop this thermal barrier.
And even though it sucks, it only sucks like 80% of what it sucked when you first got in.
With the Blue Cube, it's 100% sucked.
The whole ride sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked.
It just sucks.
tulsi gabbard
So it sounds like you got to try it at least once.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
And figure it out.
joe rogan
Just doing it the way you did it for three minutes.
Like I said, the first time I did, I did like a minute and 24 seconds.
tulsi gabbard
I couldn't chicken out in front of all the guys.
unidentified
You know what I mean?
tulsi gabbard
It's like when Hassan says, well, I did it three minutes to show up for the rocks.
Like, okay, I'm not going to be the one who chickens out at a minute.
That's not an option.
joe rogan
Well, you did it.
tulsi gabbard
You did it.
No, it was good.
It was good.
It was very challenging.
It was good.
We don't have a cold punch.
It's like, okay, I'm not going to go and find bags of ice every single day from 7-Eleven and dump in the bathtub.
So I just, when I can, I just dump my face in ice cubes and water.
joe rogan
That's good, too.
Yeah, that'll wake you up.
All that stuff's good.
There's some pretty reasonably priced options for coolers that you could actually do in a bathtub now.
There's a bunch of different ways you should do it, but if you've got the scratch, like one of these blue cubes or something similar, or Morosco makes a really good one too, they're really good.
tulsi gabbard
I can see how the after feeling gets kind of addictive.
joe rogan
I'm sure someone will reach out to you.
Try to get you to use their shit.
It's very good though.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
But it's also like the camaraderie, the fun.
tulsi gabbard
For sure.
joe rogan
Have fun, listen to music.
tulsi gabbard
For sure.
joe rogan
Laugh a lot.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
Yeah.
This is perfect.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a good way to get a podcast started.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, and by the way, congratulations to the marijuana enjoyers of the world because the DEA officially rescheduled marijuana.
They're going to reschedule it to Schedule 3. Wow.
Which still, it shouldn't be illegal.
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
joe rogan
We know that.
tulsi gabbard
I agree.
joe rogan
But baby steps.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
The fact that it's making progress at all just shows that the collective will of the people is being heard, at least somewhat.
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
I'm trying to remember who it was.
Somebody was telling me that the decriminalization crew, they gave an American flag made out of hemp to a member of Congress to fly above the Capitol.
Because it's a normal thing.
You know, I would get people when I was in Congress calling and saying, hey, it's, you know, my friend is retiring from the military from 30 years.
Can you fly a flag in honor of him or her?
And so you get a little certificate with it.
And there are many flags that go up and down every day that are given as gifts to people.
So someone did it with a flag, American flag made out of hemp.
And apparently it caused major problems within the DEA and within the administration saying, how dare you?
How could anyone allow this to happen?
It made zero sense whatsoever.
But it just pointed to the backwards mindset and thinking and the sensitivity within the DEA and the government around that.
Cannabis, hemp, marijuana.
joe rogan
It just seems a massive lack of education, too.
It's not as simple as, you know, you're thinking of it in connection to marijuana.
It's hemp is a commodity that has existed forever.
In fact, canvas that writers paint on or that painters, artists paint on.
The original word, canvas, came from cannabis.
It was made out of hemp.
tulsi gabbard
Interesting.
joe rogan
They made hemp paper.
It's a better paper.
They made hemp clothing.
It's far superior to cotton.
The only reason why they...
This is where it gets weird.
It has...
There's a bunch of things that took place that took hemp away from being a common source of paper and clothing.
But one of them was making slavery illegal.
Because before they came out with the decorticator, the primary way they used to process hemp fiber was really painstaking.
Because it's an incredible plant.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a very light plant, but it's insanely durable.
Like, hemp clothing is so much more durable.
Like, I have a hemp jujitsu gi from Datsura.
tulsi gabbard
Okay.
joe rogan
And that sucker never rips.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
My cotton gis, they're good for, like...
You know, you wear them for like six months, a year, shit starts going.
Even like really strong, stable cotton threads start going.
These hemp geese are like, they're invincible.
It's crazy.
And hemp paper is so difficult to tear.
It's like a completely different kind of paper.
Makes no sense.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's an amazing rope.
It's like you could use it to make concrete.
They make hemp.
Have you seen that where they make houses with it?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
My dad is a state senator in Hawaii.
He's the chair of the Agriculture Committee.
And for years, he's been the state's biggest advocate for hemp as an economic driver and to try to help revive agriculture in Hawaii.
endlessly about the houses and just everything, all of the different benefits of hemp.
He's got some hemp aloha shirts and the whole deal.
This thing that you're talking about, though, the federal government and the classification is the biggest barrier to this actually becoming a really viable and thriving industry in our country because people are growing crops of hemp, but they've got to go through all of the federal government and the classification is the biggest barrier to this actually becoming a A really viable and thriving industry in our country because people are growing crops of hemp, but they've got to go through all of this crazy THC testing.
And I've talked to people who are farmers and business people who are investing in this, and they've had to throw entire crops away because of...
I don't know the details about the testing, but it just...
One plus one doesn't equal two when you look at the reality of the benefits of hemp and the farming process and the concerns that they have within the DEA. So is the concern if it has any level of THC at all becomes illegal, even if you're just processing it as a commodity and you're not using it?
Right.
Correct.
joe rogan
But did they understand, like, it's very valuable as a commodity.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
It's so stupid.
This whole thing is stupid because we're always concerned about, and rightly so, about cutting down forests to make paper.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
Right?
Well, guess what?
Hemp paper, you can grow an entire—first of all, it's much more viable.
You have much more product.
It's much more durable, and you can regrow it quick.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
It just grows right back again, whereas trees takes years and years to grow them back.
Hemp, you've got another season.
Whoop!
Okay, here's the hemp plant.
Grows crazy fast, super light, super durable.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just got to think about it as a commodity and stop connecting it to marijuana.
Exactly.
And you're going, well, this is invaluable because this could solve a lot of our problems, especially with deforestation.
And then if you look at it for building materials, like, wait, this might be the greatest building material we can use.
It's incredible insulation.
It's very durable and strong.
And again, renewable, like instantaneously.
It grows so quick.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
What's interesting, I mean, for us in Hawaii, I mean, tourism is the biggest economic driver we have.
And every time there's, you know, in the post 9-11 when people weren't traveling so much, during COVID, when everything shut down, businesses go out of business.
Small businesses are driven out because if they don't have that driver.
So the conversation always comes up about, okay, well, we've got to diversify our economy.
And this is one of those areas that has huge potential for a small island state like ours in Hawaii to And what's interesting is Mitch McConnell...
I believe he's from Kentucky.
Their state is also a state that is promoting hemp as a major agriculture driver.
So there's opportunity there, but it requires a lot more education from those both in the administration and in Congress to actually take down those barriers and allow it to actually truly be an industry in America.
joe rogan
When we first started selling hemp protein on it, we used to have to get it from Canada.
unidentified
Hmm.
joe rogan
You can sell it in America.
Can't grow it here.
I was like, what?
It's just food.
It's just hemp seeds.
It's really good for you.
It's full of amino acids and rich in protein.
And they're like, no, can't grow it.
That shit's illegal.
tulsi gabbard
You know what's nuts, too, is the military...
People who are on active duty in the military, they can't put hemp seeds in their smoothie.
They can't use any CBD bomb that you can buy at the freaking gas station or anything at all.
joe rogan
CBD bomb?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, CBD bomb.
Anything that has your energy drink that has...
joe rogan
CBD? Kill Cliff?
tulsi gabbard
Cannot.
Not allowed.
You could seriously get punished if you were caught.
joe rogan
Are they testing blood for CBD? They're not testing blood for CBD. So it's just illegal.
So if you get caught with the product.
tulsi gabbard
If you get caught with the product, correct.
And their fear is like you're going to piss hot because you take the random urinalysis tests and everything else.
But it...
So, I laughed.
You know, I mean, again, it's lack of education, it's fear, and it's like, well, this is banned by the federal government, so the military must comply.
But at the same time, the guy within the army, the civilian who was putting out this policy...
He also said you're not allowed to eat anything with poppy seed.
You can't eat a poppy seed muffin because you might piss hot.
joe rogan
I was going to bring that up.
That's the wildest one.
Well, you will.
Yeah, you will.
You can go to Dubai.
You go places where it's seriously strict, Saudi Arabia.
They'll test you for heroin.
You'll test positive for heroin.
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
Unreal.
joe rogan
Poppy seeds are rough.
That's a scary one.
It's like, wait a minute.
Bagel poppy seeds?
Those things are going to get piss hot for heroin?
tulsi gabbard
Lemon poppy seeds.
Poppy seed muffin?
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
They tell you if you go in for a drug test, do not eat poppy seeds before you go.
tulsi gabbard
It's crazy.
What?
joe rogan
Bagels.
How bad is your test?
tulsi gabbard
Right.
That's the point.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
How bad is your test?
Technology, biology, like all this stuff.
joe rogan
Your test doesn't know that I just ate a bagel?
This is so stupid.
You're going to put someone in a cage for eating a bagel?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, but like for a guy in the military, that could be the end of your freaking career.
unidentified
It could.
tulsi gabbard
You'd be kicked out for it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And, you know, just being at a party and people are smoking.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And, you know, you get secondhand smoke and you'll test positive.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, those tests are probably pretty rough because people definitely get high from secondhand smoke.
I've seen it happen before.
I've seen sober people go into a room that's filled with pot and everyone comes out like a little loopy, like, you're breathing in the same air.
You're breathing in pot air.
I used to have a dog that I got.
She was a stray and she was a little prone to anxiety as it is.
And if she was in the room when people smoked pot, she would get high and she'd get paranoid.
She started hiding under tables.
I was like, aw, Lucy.
She was sad.
tulsi gabbard
Not good.
She didn't get the chill factor.
joe rogan
She was like, the world is dangerous.
She used to live on the street.
tulsi gabbard
Man.
joe rogan
I guess it's a good thing that they've scheduled it, Schedule 3. But for sure, forget about the drug part.
They should be encouraging hemp production in this country.
It's an amazing food source.
Hemp has all of the essential amino acids.
It's very rich in protein.
It's easily digestible.
As far as plant-based protein, for me, is my favorite one and the easiest one to digest.
It's just easy.
It goes down smooth.
b-real
There's no problem at all.
joe rogan
It's very good for you.
And CBD is very good for you.
But forget about all that.
Just for a commodity and for building construction and clothing.
The first draft of the Declaration of Independence was written on hemp.
tulsi gabbard
I've heard that.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It was used for everything.
It was used for ropes, for sailboats.
They made sails out of it.
The canvas, that was all made out of cannabis initially.
It was all hemp.
tulsi gabbard
I introduced legislation in Congress to deschedule it completely because it shouldn't be.
joe rogan
The wildest thing is how it happened in the first place.
The wildest thing how it happened in the first place is because it was all...
William Randolph Hearst and Harry Anslinger.
And so what happened was William Randolph Hearst, who owned Hearst Publications, he also owned not just newspapers but he owned paper mills and he owned forests.
So he had all these forests that they would cut down the wood and use it to make paper.
Well, if they were going to transfer over to hemp, this is going to be very costly.
And the cover of Popular Science magazine in, I think it was 1930, find out what year that cover was.
It says, Because they came up with a new machine, and it was called a decorticator.
And this new device was a device that allows you to effectively process the hemp fiber in a much quicker and easier way.
So it's this machine that grinds it up.
And so once they do this, they go, oh boy, we figured out, they've solved this problem of hemp.
It's very durable.
But it's really difficult to break down to the actual fibers.
So 1938. Oh, wow.
So this comes out in 1938, Hemp the New Billion Dollar Crop.
And so it's the cover of Popular Science magazine.
Do they have the cover so you can see what it says?
Oh, just an article?
jamie vernon
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
Popular Mechanics magazine.
I'm sorry.
So...
So the article is from 1938. And so when they come out with this, they talk about this new invention.
See if you could find a photo of the decorticator.
Because it's like this grindy kind of thing.
Is that what it looks like?
Hemp the new billion-dollar crop.
So once they had this ability to really quickly turn it into fibers, then big industry starts getting involved.
And what they start doing is they start making these stories and putting them in the newspaper about Mexicans and black people smoking this new drug called marijuana and raping white women.
And marijuana was not Marijuana was a wild Mexican tobacco.
It was a slang for a wild Mexican tobacco.
It had nothing to do with marijuana.
So they started attaching this name to something and calling it a drug because they knew that cannabis was so ubiquitous.
And hemp as a commodity, everybody knew what it was good for.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
So they had to come up with some sneaky way to get it through.
So they come up with the word marijuana.
So marijuana was not a term for pot.
It wasn't a term for cannabis.
It was a term for this wild Mexican tobacco.
And so when they started making marijuana illegal, Congress didn't even understand that it was the same thing as hemp.
And so they had to come up with some sort of a tax stamp that you can have in order to grow hemp.
While marijuana is illegal.
And then this is like right after prohibition, right?
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
So prohibition ends.
You got all these cops that were used to busting people like, sick them on the farmers now.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
And this is what happened.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
And then they come up with these dopey movies that are amazing to watch today.
Have you ever seen Reefer Madness?
unidentified
Mm-mm.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
It's like people smoking pot just jumping out of windows and killing people.
tulsi gabbard
Talk about some propaganda.
joe rogan
Oh, it's the worst propaganda.
But it was really effective.
Like, this is it.
I've got a few of these posters.
tulsi gabbard
Weird.
joe rogan
I have them framed.
tulsi gabbard
Oh my gosh.
joe rogan
Because these movies were insane.
And they were just full on propaganda movies.
tulsi gabbard
Lust, crime, sorrow, hate, shame, despair.
joe rogan
Find the movie.
Find a clip from the movie Reefer Madness.
We'll just watch it without playing it.
But it was so nutty.
And they scared everybody.
Like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
Understand that media has sucked forever.
unidentified
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
Just understand that.
So this is reefer madness.
So that dude on the piano, he's a reefer man.
unidentified
Marijuana, the burning weed with its roots in hell.
joe rogan
Look it up!
unidentified
In this film, you will see the ease with which this vicious plant can be grown in your neighbor's yard, rolled into harmless-looking cigarettes, hidden in an innocent shoe or watch case.
In this startling film, you will see dumpsters lure children to destruction.
We're going over to Joe's place.
Why don't you come along?
We have a date to play a set of doubles.
Oh, you can play anytime.
Come on, we'll have some laughs.
Can I go along with you?
Sure.
Hey, I'll see you at dinner, sis.
If you want a good smoke, try one of these.
You will meet Bill, who wants to pride in his strong will as he takes the first step toward enslavement.
Yeah.
Debauchery!
Violence!
Murder!
joe rogan
Oh!
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Look, she's just gonna jump out the window.
unidentified
Oh my gosh.
Jeez!
joe rogan
Apparently it makes you act terrible, too.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Terrible at acting.
unidentified
Look at this guy.
tulsi gabbard
Play faster.
joe rogan
She's actually playing pretty good for someone who's stoned.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, imagine being hammered and trying to play that.
tulsi gabbard
Oh my gosh.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So this was the propaganda from, and what year was that, Jamie?
36. 36. Wow.
So this is all, they're all like trying to stop hemp as a commodity.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
That's really what it's all about.
tulsi gabbard
Isn't it fascinating just to see the repetition of the propaganda, information, warfare to be able to serve a special interest?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
tulsi gabbard
And it's ridiculous that it's always existed.
joe rogan
And that it was going on almost 100 years ago.
And what's also important about it is, the problem with something like that is that now you don't trust the media, right?
Now if you don't trust the media, and then you go out and try it yourself, you don't have real accurate information.
Because now there's like this, there's these narratives that have been created that aren't based on truth, and so you don't know where to go.
You don't know what's real and what's not, and then you have people that tell you it's harmless, and then you have people tell you, well, there's people like me that go, Nah, because I'm like, it's not harmless.
Marijuana is not a harmless thing.
You definitely shouldn't take it when you're young.
And here's what's really important.
Some people can't handle it for whatever reason.
And it's most likely some biological thing, just like some people are allergic to aspirin or whatever.
Like there's some people, they don't mix well with that stuff.
And there's a real connection between schizophrenia with some people that maybe are susceptible to schizophrenia.
Alex Berenson wrote a great book about it called Tell Your Children.
It's very interesting because there's real instances of people taking high doses and getting schizophrenic.
But if we're being lied to about it, no one knows who's going to give me the information.
Where's the truth coming out?
Because if one group is saying that this is a Schedule I chemical and it's very dangerous, then all your friends are just smoking weed and going to the movies.
You're like, well, clearly...
This is not that dangerous.
Like jujitsu people and surfers, they're all getting high.
What's real here?
And because we don't have the ability to just honestly talk about things without everything getting so weird and like the hemp thing, like having a hemp flag, like this is a problem with the DEA. Hey guys, don't you have fentanyl to worry about?
Why are you fucking with flags?
tulsi gabbard
Seriously, it makes no sense.
joe rogan
There's only 10,000 DEA agents!
I think there's 10,100 some DEA agents.
You guys got time for flags?
How many pounds of fentanyl is coming through that border while we're talking?
While you and I are talking, how much fentanyl is making it across in people's shoes and underwear and where the fuck they're hiding it?
No one's checking everybody.
unidentified
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
No, it's true.
And then, of course, all the medicinal qualities of CBD as well and how many people and kids and just people are benefiting from that.
joe rogan
Well, Dave Foley told me that his arthritis was so bad that his fingers were kind of like locked in this position.
He had a really hard time straightening them until he started taking CBD. Interesting.
And then it's like, it's so much better now.
tulsi gabbard
Wow.
joe rogan
Just like my fingers have full range of motion now.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
I know so many people that take it for like aches and pains and And it actually helps some people with anxiety, too, which is interesting.
tulsi gabbard
The conflict here is, as you know, you know, as majority of states in the country have legalized it in some fashion, whether it's medicinal or recreational or whatever, all these different levels.
But because of the federal prohibition, essentially, you know, you've got banking.
It is a multi, I don't know, multi hundred million dollar industry, at least at this point.
But in order to be able to conduct business with the bank, the bank and the business owner faces a potential federal charge of a crime.
And so it's, you know, the second, third, fourth order of effects of this scheduling of cannabis is very, very far-reaching and creating a worse problem, which, you know, is, you know, okay, so we do this on the black market, does this just become a cash industry, or where does this go?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah, and the problem also is by having some states have it legal and some states have it illegal, then you still open up a market for illegal sales in the country, and what happens is the cartel comes in and they start growing it on public lands.
I had a guy on the podcast, his name is John Norris, and he started off as a game warden.
So he started off as a guy who's going to check fishing licenses and stuff.
One day, they find that a stream has been diverted, and they're trying to figure out why, why the stream has dried up.
So they make their way up the stream, and they find this irrigation system that's set up for an illegal marijuana grow up in the middle of public land in California.
So then they develop a tactical team.
So it goes from him being a game ward to now they have dogs and bulletproof vests.
They're getting in shootouts with the cartel.
Because they're making millions of dollars, but they're using really dangerous chemicals and pesticides that are illegal to use on crops in America.
They're just using that shit up there.
So who knows what the fuck you're getting if you're living in one of these states that has illegal pot.
Because when California changed the law and made marijuana legal recreationally, they made growing marijuana without a license.
It's just a misdemeanor.
So these guys that are just doing it now from the cartel, they're like, you have nothing to risk.
It's a misdemeanor, and we can make millions and millions of dollars.
And so they have these guys up there.
They have rosaries and all those photos of Jesus and shit they find in campgrounds.
And they pay these guys to go out there, grow this stuff, and then bring it out.
Harvest it and bring it out.
And they're selling it.
He said that, I think, believe, John said at the time of our podcast that 90% of all the marijuana that's being sold in the states where it's illegal is all from these grow-ups, a lot of them in California, on public land by the cartels.
unidentified
90%.
Yeah.
joe rogan
90%.
unidentified
That's huge.
joe rogan
Even good old-fashioned American pot-growing entrepreneurs, the illegal ones, they can't keep up with the cartel.
And this is because it's illegal.
And this is the same reason why fentanyl's coming in.
I mean...
Don't do heroin, kids.
Okay?
But if you keep everything illegal, you're going to just prop up the government of these countries that is allowing this stuff to come in and they're allowing people to grow it or they can't do anything about it because the cartel has so much money and so much power that the government is basically helpless.
And it's being propped up by Americans.
tulsi gabbard
100%.
joe rogan
It's a rough thing to deal with because we don't want to say, oh, let's make all drugs legal.
Because, my God, the last thing you want is your kid to die of a drug overdose.
So nobody wants kids to be doing drugs.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
But also, if you don't do that, you're just going to empower our neighbors to the south who happen to be drug dealers, some of them, and they're making billions of dollars selling drugs to America.
And you're killing kids at a rate higher than ever in recorded history.
People are dying.
There's a hundred thousand plus people every year that are dying from opiate overdoses.
Which is nuts.
That's so much.
tulsi gabbard
It's crazy that it's happening here in the United States of America.
joe rogan
And the thing is, this is where it's hard.
It's happening because it's illegal, which sounds so counterintuitive.
The problem is, if it was legal, there would be a long period of time where it would be really bad.
You know, I think if it was legal, too many people would try it that wouldn't try it.
tulsi gabbard
Wouldn't have otherwise.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They're not going to go to a drug dealer.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But if they can just go to CVS and buy heroin, like, let's see what the fuss is all about.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
That's spooky.
tulsi gabbard
I think that this is the conversation that needs to be had, though.
You know what I mean?
I mean, it's the same thing about people unwilling to even discuss what is the right path?
How do we handle this crisis that is a national crisis that's taking so many people's lives?
joe rogan
Tell people not to do it.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, right.
Well, that works out.
unidentified
That doesn't work.
joe rogan
It doesn't work.
We're in a weird spot.
tulsi gabbard
I was in San Diego a few weeks ago.
We went out to film a little mini-documentary about what's happening at the border in San Diego.
There's a lot of attention being put on Texas and Arizona, but California's border is a whole different dynamic, both because they've got You know, a long stretch of border where you're crossing in and you're going straight to mountains, you know, big open spaces.
But then you've got the very dense urban corridor, I suppose, where people, whether they're coming in through the water or they're just coming across the border, where they can disappear into neighborhoods very quickly.
But there's a few things that were very eye-opening and interesting.
Number one is we know that the borders are open because we know how many people are coming through.
The numbers that are being reported, I think, is close to 9 million now just over the course of the Biden administration.
What I saw there were...
People coming in and we were just driving around and we saw groups of people gathering in different locations from all over the world, illegal immigrants, and seemingly happy and going to the place where they were told to go or they knew that Border Patrol was going to pick them up.
And knowing that they will get processed, claim asylum, and most of them will be out with a plane ticket anywhere in the country within 24 hours.
That's crazy.
And I've talked to some of the Border Patrol agents and they're not allowed to say anything on the record, but just the frustration that's being felt where they can't even do their job.
joe rogan
What is the justification for the plane ticket?
tulsi gabbard
They don't have the ability to house people where they are.
Where do you want to go?
Utah?
Okay, here you go.
Where do you want to go?
New York City?
And I went and I talked to a lot of them.
I sat down and talked with people from Brazil, from Egypt, from Colombia, from Venezuela, from different parts of Eastern Europe, people from all over the world coming here with the known plan in this well-oiled machine.
And I'm talking about this because it is very directed to the cartel, directly connected to the cartel's We're good to go.
And so we spent a couple of days at the border there and then went into the city of San Diego and went and started talking to some homeless people and talking to people who were clearly, clearly extremely high on multiple drugs.
And we're walking around with one of the community relations police officers there who's just plainclothes.
He's walking around and keeping an eye on what's going on there.
But we talked to this one guy who had a crack pipe in his hand.
He seemed barely conscious, but he was engaging in a long conversation with us.
And I was asking him about fentanyl.
And he's like, oh yeah, I take fentanyl sometimes.
But I usually take it at night to help me go to sleep.
I asked, like, aren't you afraid of not waking up?
He's like, yeah, I've had a lot of friends who died from fentanyl, but I know how much to take and I know how to manage it.
And have you?
He's like, yeah, I almost died twice and I was revived.
And then asking him, the police officer asked him, what would it take to get you off the street?
What would it take to get you to a place where you can get some help?
And to get off drugs.
And he said, he's a 27-year-old guy.
Nothing.
Nothing.
He said, there's too many rules in the places where I could go and stay.
And I want to live my life this way.
It was so heartbreaking to see him.
You know, his eyes were barely open and clearly in an altered state of mind.
But even in that state in this conversation, how do you help someone who doesn't want to be helped?
joe rogan
You can't.
It's the problem.
I mean, you could talk to them.
You could hope that they could get some information from you that shifts the way they think about things, but the addiction gets so deep.
And there's this thing that some addicts will say, is that...
I feel better when I'm high.
That it's the only time I feel good.
It's the only thing good that I have in my life is when I get high.
And if you take that away, my life is terrible.
And if you've been an addict for a long time, the longer you're an addict, in fact, the more that's true, right?
Because the more your life is a wreck, and then you're forced to deal with it when you come off and you realize, like, oh my god, I'm 45 years old and I'm a heroin addict.
Like, what the fuck?
How is this?
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
And then now you're sober and your life is in shambles and you try to like figure out how did you go so wrong?
And then the only thing that made you feel good was heroin.
You want to go back.
You want to go back to that.
And it's also people like get really scared of success.
Even success and staying sober.
They get scared of doing things well.
And they seek comfort in failure because they've become accustomed to failure.
So the pressure of doing well and of staying sober and keeping healthy, it's almost too much.
Just the maintaining, the psychological, the anxiety, all the fear that comes with failing, that you just want to fail just so you can just feel comfortable again.
Because then you don't have to...
unidentified
There's no pressure.
joe rogan
Yeah.
You don't have to deal with the pressure.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's scary.
The human mind is so susceptible to so many different things, whether it's cults or addictions or, you know, I mean, we're very weirdly vulnerable to a lot of, like, very strange things.
And a lot of these things, I think, a lot of the mental issues are accentuated by social media.
They exacerbate them badly.
I think there's a lot of undiagnosed mentally ill people that are just killing themselves by being online all the time.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, I believe it.
joe rogan
I really do.
I think it's terrible for you.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
I mean, it's so easy to get sucked into it.
joe rogan
It's so easy.
And people that are, like, arguing with people constantly online, like, my God, what a terrible waste of time.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
When that becomes your reality, dealing with people and perceptions and, you know, measuring yourself against whatever you're seeing and all of it, and you slip out of the real world and building real relationships and friendships and having real conversations.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, comparing too.
The comparing is something that you and I didn't have to grow up with.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
And we're very, very fortunate because especially young girls today, and Jonathan Haidt's work on this has been really interesting.
His book, The Cobbling of the American Mind is a great one.
And it's all about what you could see, like, exactly when social media is invented, all this self-harm and all the suicidal thoughts, suicidal ideation and suicide all goes up for girls.
And it's comparing themselves.
tulsi gabbard
Doesn't surprise me.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
Absolutely.
joe rogan
It's such a bizarre thing that a person can get super-duper famous just dancing on an app that goes online and then they make millions of dollars and they're like your age.
And you're like, what's wrong with me?
I'm a loser.
You can't just live your life and hang out with your friends.
Everyone is in constant comparison with impossible people that shouldn't even exist.
tulsi gabbard
And then you add the layer of AI onto that where you have complete, you've got videos and pictures of people who are a digital construct.
joe rogan
Not just that.
People are paying to talk to them.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
There's this guy, they were doing this study on AI girlfriends where people have interactions with AI. This guy was spending $10,000 a month on his AI girlfriend.
unidentified
Oh my gosh.
tulsi gabbard
Oh my gosh.
joe rogan
ISIS could get that guy.
They just gotta find him.
If they just find that guy, they can talk that guy into anything.
If you're willing to get an AI girlfriend $10,000 a month, yeah, you'll join the Moonies.
Whatever comes along grabs you, son.
You're vulnerable.
They'll get you.
tulsi gabbard
You look at what's happening on college campuses across the country right now.
It speaks exactly to that.
That vulnerability of being manipulated or sold an ideology and then grabbing onto it as though you now have a sense of purpose.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That's the problem.
The sense of purpose is, like, so attractive to people that there's so many kids that want to be, like, so righteous, and they just want to, like, criticize and yell at other people who don't feel the same way they do.
And so, like, you're seeing these Israel versus Palestine things on school campuses.
I'm like, my God.
Which brings me to, this is an interesting thought, like, what are your, what's your opinion on this potential TikTok ban?
tulsi gabbard
I oppose it.
I oppose it on the grounds of free speech and civil liberties.
Speaking of fomenting fear, this is one of those pieces of legislation that's, if you just read the talking points for those who support it, and it's supported by many people in Congress on both sides of the aisle, you think like, oh my gosh, we've got a national security risk and you've got concern for our kids and all of this other stuff.
But when you actually read the language and understand the implications of what this legislation does, it's not really about TikTok at all.
It's about government being able to choose what platforms are acceptable and what are not, and what we as Americans are able to either get information from or put information out.
And then you look at, okay, well, if they're giving themselves that authority, how will it then be enforced?
Then you get into the civil liberties concern of the Fourth Amendment of government overreach and trying to figure out, okay, well, now I'm going to have to look into your phone and figure out if you're the guy who's using the VPN to illegally download this app.
Then you're looking at You know, the designation is that if you have 20% or more ownership stake or stake in a business that has been designated by our government to be illegal because of its association with a foreign adversary,
there are a few countries listed there, but the president would have the power to designate any other country a foreign adversary without any kind of, you know...
Congress wouldn't have to take action.
It's a unilateral move.
You are also implicated if you are someone who the government determines to be influenced by or connected with one of these countries that is a foreign adversary.
And so, you know, Elon Musk has talked about this.
It is not outside of the realm of the—not only possible, but the probable—that if they wanted to say, okay, well, you know, Elon Musk is doing business with this country that we don't like, and oh, he also owns this platform called X— I think Ron Paul said it best when he said that this legislation is the most,
and I'm paraphrasing, but he said it's the most egregious violation of civil liberty since the Patriot Act was passed in the wake of 9-11.
And when you look at the arguments that are being made around both of those pushes, they are very eerily similar in invoking national security concerns.
And the language and the way that's written is intentionally vague that puts far more power into the hands of the executive branch, just like the Patriot Act did, to single-handedly say, well, this is a good guy and this is a bad guy.
And that has a direct implication on Americans.
joe rogan
And wasn't there another recent thing that passed that allows more observation of people through cell phones?
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
Yes.
And both of these things were actually wrapped up into that same bill.
It was the same bill?
Yeah, there are a whole bunch of different things.
They were separate previously, but the thing that the TikTok ban was lumped together with was the bill that would reinstate or extend the FISA authorities, the Foreign Intelligence Security Act authorities, for another two years.
Section 702 of FISA gives our government the authority to surveil foreign actors, essentially, to try to identify terrorist threats.
But part of that is they have the ability to capture all of the conversations.
If you talk to somebody in another country that they're interested in, they can then go in and capture all of your information as an American citizen.
And they can do this without a warrant.
This has been in place for quite some time.
But this legislation that was just passed recently expanded those authorities so they can go and actually look at like your Wi-Fi history.
If you're connected to Wi-Fi, they can look at everything that you did connected to that Wi-Fi signal and in some other ways.
It took an already bad problem and made it many, many times worse.
And again, they're just saying, well, it's for national security.
The problem here is...
joe rogan
That's the thing they always say.
tulsi gabbard
That's the thing they always say.
And it's like...
I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said, if you are choosing security over liberty, you will neither be secure, nor will you have liberty.
That's not an actual quote, but that's basically the point here.
And that's the false choice that so many of these politicians are forcing on the American people is...
You can either be less free and more safe, or you can be more free and, oh, by the way, you're going to invite more terrorist attacks or more national security incursions on our country.
And it's just BS. It is BS. It's also very un-American.
It is.
joe rogan
And here's the problem with government overreach.
The government...
Is just people.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's the problem.
Like, you know, if you thought of them as something other than a three-letter name, like DEA, CIA, NSA, just a bunch of people, you would go, well, why is this like the DEA? Why is this 10,000 people?
Telling all these other people what to do.
That sounds crazy.
There's way more of them than there are of us.
If it was just in this room and Jamie turns out to be the cop and he says, hey, I'm going to put you two in prison because I heard you like hemp.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
We'd be like, Jamie, fuck off!
That's crazy.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But if it's a government agency with a three-letter name, you're like, oh, this is the government.
The government is just human beings.
And there's just a natural inclination that people in power have is to try to gain more power.
Rich people want to get richer.
Hot people want to get hotter.
That's what it is.
It's like everybody wants to improve.
And the governments, they're in the business of telling you what to do, and they want to be better at that business.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
And the best way is to be able to, like, constantly be able to surveil everything you say and do.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
And again, it goes...
unidentified
We shouldn't let them.
tulsi gabbard
No.
And this is the problem.
This is the problem is that, you know, every elected official swears an oath to support and defend the Constitution.
Yet, as we saw with this most recent example, they are so ready to undermine our Fourth Amendment rights in the Constitution that I know some of them are doing it with good intention, but without actually considering that the challenge and responsibility of those in government and those who have this power is to strike that correct balance between ensuring that our liberties and our constitutional rights Are protected.
You swear an oath to do this when you take this job while also ensuring, okay, well, we can do both and we must do both.
We can be safe and secure and also be able to live free without worrying about every time you pick up your phone or you make a phone call wondering if the government is surveilling us.
And then you add on to that what's happening now where, you know, like January 6, for example.
I was working out in the gym, a Marine Corps gym in Hawaii down the street from our house, bumped into a guy who I met.
It's a long story, but I met him when the Rocks stunt double was getting his traditional Samoan tattoo.
And it's a whole ceremony.
It was a seven day thing.
And so this other guy is Samoan.
We met, became friends.
So I saw him in the gym and he's with this 14 year old son.
How's it going?
This and that.
He's like, oh, the FBI just came to my house out in Laie, a small rural community on the island of Oahu.
I was like, what's going on?
He's like, yeah, they came and knocked on my door because, he said, I took my son to go and witness democracy.
So they were part of those thousands of people who were out there on the lawn of the Capitol.
And they didn't arrest him.
They didn't charge him with anything.
But how is it that, you know, years later, years later, they go and find this guy and his family in a rural Mormon community in Laie in Hawaii.
They're capturing all of the data.
Of people whose cell phones were pinging within that vicinity during that period of time, not only on January 6th.
And they are continuing to widen that net, looking at flight records and who bought tickets and who booked hotels and all of this stuff.
For what?
The FBI is going to go and investigate people who showed up there on the lawn on the Capitol?
You look at what they're...
And this is my thing.
It is absolutely scare tactics.
So we look at the power of the government and how they're now turning on the American people for political reasons.
We can see where even the best of intentions with some of these pieces of legislation can lead to the very worst places.
What to speak of the fact that...
We have limited resource and limited people.
What are they not investigating?
You talked about the DEA.
What about the FBI and all these millions of people are coming across our border?
Are they tracking who they are?
No, they're not.
Are they tracking where they're going?
No, they're not.
We have no idea.
People coming from the Middle East and Asia and Eastern Europe and Venezuela, gang members.
Like, all of this stuff is happening right before our very eyes.
And they're going and knocking on my friend's door in Laie because he brought his 14-year-old son to Washington, D.C. that week.
joe rogan
And here's the question.
Was the FBI there?
How many people were there?
And how come they don't have to answer that?
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
They don't say.
tulsi gabbard
Why not be transparent?
joe rogan
Also, they should be there.
The government should be there in case some shit goes sideways.
Right?
So I'm sure they're there.
But are some of the agents not good?
Just like some dentists suck.
Are some of the agents not good?
And are some of the agents encouraging people to go in?
Because that could be true too.
Because if we look at what happened with the governor of Michigan, right?
Was it Michigan or Minnesota?
Michigan.
That story is bonkers.
unidentified
It is.
joe rogan
When you find it, what was it like 11 of the people involved in the kidnapping scheme were FBI informants?
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
What?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
And these two dopes who just like, just dumbasses, like ADIQ dumbasses that just get tricked into this fucking, they cosplay and they go, we're going to kidnap her.
Definitely.
We're going to fucking get liberty done.
unidentified
They don't know what they're doing.
joe rogan
They're stupid.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
And those poor fucks have to go to jail.
unidentified
Yeah.
Exactly.
joe rogan
And the whole thing was scheduled and set up by FBI informants.
That seems crazy.
Aren't there real problems?
Instead of creating problems and then arresting people for those problems, aren't there real problems going on?
And if there's not...
Like, you guys good at your job?
Right.
We're trusting you.
tulsi gabbard
And there are.
For sure.
I know some great FBI agents, and there are people who are doing good work.
joe rogan
Absolutely.
I've met great FBI agents.
tulsi gabbard
Phenomenal.
joe rogan
Nice people, good people, patriots.
tulsi gabbard
Absolutely.
joe rogan
But they're like dentists.
Some of them are great.
unidentified
Some of them suck.
tulsi gabbard
I mean, it's just, you know, you can say this in the militaries and law enforcement.
Everything.
You are going to find those few for sure.
They are there.
So I've talked to different people than the FBI and what they've shared is that there's kind of like a bifurcation in the agency where there are people who are really, really angry and frustrated about the politicization of the FBI that's occurring by the heads.
And then there are others who are just like, full send, we're on board, let's go.
And it's creating a lot of friction and a lot of fear within the agency.
I don't know if the agency had people get confused.
That's the CIA. That's probably some similar things going on there.
But within the FBI, a lot of fear that you got to watch what you say around even your own colleagues and your own peers.
because there are people who are on different sides, which is horrible.
You are on the side of America.
You are on the side of the American people and upholding the rule of law and securing our country, going after the bad guys, Well, when the bad guys now become your neighbor down the street, we're in a very different realm, a dangerous one.
joe rogan
It's just how it is with people.
Red Sox fans hate Yankee fans.
Just like they're in the same country.
You're going to have conflict even inside the FBI. You're going to have conflict in every group.
You're going to have power struggles.
You're either with Bob or you're not.
If you want to make it in this business, you want to get to the top of this agency, you got to stay with Bob.
And Bob's fucking calling the shots.
I'm on team Bob.
You know, like, fuck Mike.
And that's what happens with people.
It happens in everything.
And you have people that go in with good intentions and they get corrupted by systems that are corrupt.
tulsi gabbard
That's where, for the, you know, across, whether it's the FBI, the Department of Justice, all of these, it matters, you know, who's in charge.
These are all civilian-led organizations.
They are political appointees.
And, you know, in theory, they are the people who should be held accountable, but they are setting that tone.
joe rogan
Did you hear what AOC said?
She said the people that are coming in to this country, most of them, it's because of climate change?
tulsi gabbard
I didn't hear that one.
joe rogan
It's amazing.
It is straight out of South Park.
tulsi gabbard
Oh my gosh.
joe rogan
It's straight out of South Park.
tulsi gabbard
Wow.
joe rogan
Like, what?
unidentified
Yeah, I know.
tulsi gabbard
Oh, that's the only reason?
I'm like waiting like, oh, like, is there more?
joe rogan
Has the climate changed more than I know?
Do you know something I don't know?
Like, what are you saying?
What's going on down there?
tulsi gabbard
The best are those clips.
I just saw one on Instagram the other day from like 1985 where a newscaster is, I think it might have even been black and white, and she's saying, the climate change scientists tell us that we may only have 10 years before the earth is destroyed.
1992 is gonna be the year.
And then whoever made this clip, they juxtaposed her clip with one from Bernie Sanders saying the exact same thing with a different date, you know, how many decades later.
joe rogan
And the problem is, when you fear monger, you distract people from the real issue.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Like, what is really going on?
Like, how bad are we fucking up the planet?
You know, here's one that doesn't get discussed enough.
We've killed everything in the ocean.
The ocean is depleted.
What was the number, Jamie?
Like 90% of the big fish are gone?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Some crazy number like that.
Just imagine how psychotic it is to have a species that goes into another dimension that it's not a resident of and uses nets and just takes everything it can get and catches a bunch of dolphins and shit in there that it doesn't want anyway and they all die.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
A new global study concludes that 90% of all large fishes have disappeared from the world's oceans in the past half century, in 50 years.
So that's a cataclysm.
That's a disaster of epic proportion when it comes to ecology and when it comes to just the environment of the world itself.
We're killing most, because we like sushi, we're killing most of what's in the ocean.
It's bananas.
And so that is getting ignored because everyone is talking about fossil fuels.
I wonder how much of this is pushed by foreign countries through social media.
Because there is a thing that you can do and nudge conversations in a certain way with bots and with fake statistics and with fear-mongering.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Meanwhile, China is opening hundreds of new coal power plants.
They're doubling down on coal.
And I think through TikTok and through probably Facebook and YouTube and all these different things, and Instagram, I'm sure, there's countless bots that are putting out videos and pushing narratives and find their way into your algorithm, and they affect the way people think about things.
And guess what?
If you go to Chinese TikTok, it's all Academic accomplishments, martial arts demonstrations, science achievements, and you can't go on after 10 p.m.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
In New York America, it's dudes with fake eyelashes reading stories to toddlers.
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
And it's everybody telling you the ocean's going to boil.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's weird.
It's Osama bin Laden's letter to America.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
The letter to America thing was wild, too.
Everybody was like, wow, you know, Osama bin Laden had a point.
tulsi gabbard
Oh, my gosh.
unidentified
I had a...
tulsi gabbard
I had dinner the other night with a family.
It was during the holiday of Passover, and this question came up about what would happen if another 9-11-style terrorist attack or some major incident like that came up in our country today?
Would it have that same kind of unifying effect that occurred after that attack on 9-11?
And when you look at things like that, like the Osama bin Laden letter, and you look at how there is – I mean, there's an entire – not an entire generation, but there's a lot of people now who I wouldn't be surprised if they said, well, you know, such an attack was justified.
outside.
And not have that same kind of sense of unity of like, hey, no matter our differences, we got to stand together as Americans.
And that should be a serious concern.
joe rogan
It should be a serious concern also when you really take into consideration how many genuinely dumb people there are.
And when you have a situation like October 7th in Israel, I saw within days, before Israel did what they did in Palestine, within days, I saw people justifying the attacks on October 7th because of the treatment that Israel has given to the Palestinians.
I'm like, hey, that's crazy.
That's crazy.
That's crazy to say that you think people should be indiscriminately shot and killed and just in mass at a fucking rave, like paratrooping.
You think that's okay because of what Israel's done?
But guess what?
Those people didn't do that.
Those people at the rave and those people that are on the border, those are apparently according to Ari.
Those are the hippies.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
They're the ones who don't believe that we should be there.
tulsi gabbard
Don't believe in borders.
joe rogan
Yeah, they don't believe in borders.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
They want to be close to the Palestinians.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
Exactly.
And that's where, you know, some of the things that they're chanting at, that these protesters are chanting at Columbia University and some of the other ones.
We hope that October 7th happens 10,000 times over, they say.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
You know, celebrating Hamas, this Islamist terrorist organization.
It is.
I don't think we can just dismiss them as just being stupid.
You know what I mean?
These kids are going to Ivy League schools.
They are being absolutely manipulated.
And there is a very intentional ideological war that is being waged, in this example, by these radicalismist groups like Hamas.
And they had planned this.
They've been doing this for hundreds of years.
And they're using technology and they're using other means to be able to achieve that end.
joe rogan
No doubt, as is Russia, as is China.
They've infiltrated universities, you know, the famous Yuri Besbinov speech from 1984, which is crazy when you hear it today, because he called it.
He knew it was going to happen, and it's happening, and it's happening from college campuses outward.
So the most...
Radical of these ideologies are being promoted on colleges because the kids are the youngest.
They don't have jobs and real-world experience.
They're young.
They have ideologies.
They're a little bit unrealistic, and they're all captured by this status game that's going on on campus where you're trying to be the most radical, like, oh, he's so radically pro-Palestine.
He's so hot.
You know, and then that really becomes a thing.
You become virtuous, and you become attractive.
You become interesting without actually being interesting, just because you have this rabid adherence to an ideology that's right now in vogue.
And that's really what it is.
And I think a lot of that is funded by foreign governments.
And there's a lot of evidence points to it, and we should consider it as a possibility.
And don't dismiss it as a conspiracy theory.
Consider it as a possibility.
This is the question about things like tick-tock like and and Twitter and all of them all of them because I guarantee you it's not just foreign countries kids I Guarantee you there are people in this country that are using it.
I know businesses do it.
Yes, I know I guarantee you people do it to try to influence the way people think about things and When you see posts, I've seen posts multiple times saying outrageous things.
And I'll just, okay, let me click on this guy.
And it's usually some letters and numbers and name maybe and a bunch of numbers.
And then I click and I realize, oh, fake person.
Just go through all this stuff.
unidentified
Zero posts.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's all just retweeting inflammatory stuff and...
It's nutty fucking crazy politic takes and like really aggressive takes on things and like, wow, how many of them are there?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
There's no question that this is happening and the social media algorithms are feeding it and playing right into it in our attention and our minds are the commodity.
joe rogan
100%.
And if they can just trick you into buying some stuff along the way, that would be great.
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
Who would have ever thought that your data would be so valuable?
That's the thing about when you and I were younger, it meant nothing.
Your data meant nothing.
What are you talking about?
My data.
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
What is that?
tulsi gabbard
Why would anybody be interested in that?
joe rogan
I remember my first inclination that data meant something was I bought Dianetics.
I bought that book in like 1994 when I first moved to Hollywood.
And Scientology never stopped sending me things.
They never stopped.
tulsi gabbard
Like, we got one.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I was like, oh, that's how they get you.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then they get you to join.
I guess you have to give them a piece, give them a taste of what you're doing.
You turn the group.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And so data now is responsible for the largest corporations in terms of like the amount of money.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like think about Apple, how big Apple is and how much data Apple has.
And Apple's better with data than Android systems are and Google's terrible with it.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's just like they're just siphoning up your data.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
And that's the fallacy and that's kind of the falsehood of the argument for people who are pushing that TikTok ban bill is if they're claiming they're concerned about data security and privacy and making sure that our data is protected.
You got to do it across the board.
Because every single one of these social media or big tech companies is collecting as much as they possibly can.
And if you think they're not selling it to the highest bidder, whether they be an American company or a foreign company, of course they are.
This is their business model.
joe rogan
Wasn't there some controversy about one of the DNA companies, whether it's Ancestry or one of the other ones?
tulsi gabbard
There was.
joe rogan
Where they sold their data to China?
tulsi gabbard
I think so.
I don't remember which one.
joe rogan
You sold everybody's genes?
unidentified
I didn't know you could do that.
joe rogan
I wouldn't have signed up for that.
You could sell my genes to China?
If China was offering free DNA tests...
jamie vernon
No, it wasn't China.
joe rogan
Was it?
jamie vernon
No, they didn't sell it to China.
joe rogan
Who would they sell it to?
jamie vernon
KlaxoSmithKline.
tulsi gabbard
Big Pharma.
joe rogan
That's even scarier.
Who do they sell it to?
They can sell it to anybody else too, right?
jamie vernon
It says 23andMe sells anonymous DNA to the drug company for $20 million.
That's not even that much.
joe rogan
It's not that much.
Oh, it's just anonymous, guys.
unidentified
It's anonymous.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, of course.
joe rogan
Guys.
unidentified
Of course.
joe rogan
Wasn't there one with China, though, with Ancestry?
Yeah, this is 23andMe.
jamie vernon
No, this is Ancestry also.
joe rogan
This is interesting as well?
Interesting.
tulsi gabbard
20 million dollars.
joe rogan
I remember something about China.
jamie vernon
I just typed in data sold and that's what comes up.
joe rogan
I might be on the wrong forums though.
I might be on some conspiratorial forums.
I might have gone too deep on the JFK rabbit hole the other night.
jamie vernon
This is what you said.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
China.
There it goes.
A groundbreaking move that has sent shockwaves through the biotech industry.
23andMe, the leading personal geonomics and biotechnology companies, officially announced the sale of its entire DNA database to the Chinese government for an astonishing $10 billion.
tulsi gabbard
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So that's the one I was looking for.
jamie vernon
But I'll just add that that's only coming from a Medium article and not any other articles that are saying that.
joe rogan
Jamie, why you gotta fuck it up with facts?
jamie vernon
I'm just trying to understand what's happening.
tulsi gabbard
Jamie is on it.
unidentified
Why you gotta fuck it up with facts?
joe rogan
Yeah, who knows?
But your data is extremely valuable.
That's weird.
And it's also valuable to humans.
It's humans selling other humans' data.
Whether you call them Facebook or Google or the DEA, it's just a bunch of people.
And if they don't have to follow the same rules that you follow, then we have real problems.
And when you have entire groups of people that are dependent upon technology that's controlled almost entirely by one ideology, And then you let the government get involved, like they did with Twitter, and you see with the Twitter files, you're like, oh Jesus, this is bad.
You let the government have a back door, and they started sneaking around and telling you what to do and what not to do, and you were complying?
People were telling other people that they couldn't have experts from Harvard and Stanford talk about medical problems.
Stop this.
Stop those experts from talking.
Remove those posts.
Ban those people.
The government is saying that!
unidentified
Exactly.
tulsi gabbard
And even if they're not saying, hey, do this or else.
Even if they're not making an explicit threat.
joe rogan
Just the fact that you're getting requests from the government.
unidentified
Exactly.
tulsi gabbard
What are you going to do?
The FBI is calling and saying, hey, we'd really like you to do X, Y, or Z. In my mind, I'd be like, okay, what am I going to be investigated for outside of this if I say no?
What are the consequences going to be?
joe rogan
If you're a person working at Twitter, this is not you.
They're not investigating you.
They're investigating someone else.
So if they're going in, they're talking about these posts like, hey, this expert is spreading misinformation.
They're causing vaccine hesitancy or whatever they're causing.
We need to stop this.
Put a stop to this.
Like, why is the government being involved in a dispute between doctors and the pharmaceutical drug companies?
Like, what are you doing?
And how do you know?
Did you guys adjudiate this?
Did you guys get in front of a court?
Did you guys get in front of experts?
Did people testify?
Did you have someone who's pro and con this?
Someone who lays out this argument?
Did you examine this?
No, no, no, you didn't.
No, you just contacted Twitter?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
And Twitter said okay.
Because what are they going to do?
They're fucking executives.
If you're working at Twitter, and this old Twitter, and you're like super woke, and you've just been drinking lattes and going into the meditation room, then all of a sudden you get an email from the FBI like, I don't want to fuck up this job.
I got a cushy job!
And you're like, okay, what do I have to do?
Okay, I'll do that.
And so you do that.
And that's not good.
It's not good to have that kind of power being wielded by other people.
They're just people.
You could call them the FBI and call the DNA. They're human beings and human beings that have that kind of power over other human beings in a country that's supposed to value freedom.
That in and of itself is un-American.
tulsi gabbard
And that's where this isn't just like some rogue FBI agent doing this or some rogue...
You know, bureaucrat in an agency who's going and doing this.
This is an expressed policy coming from the Biden administration in this example to go and use big tech to silence certain people's voices and to decide who does the government want to be heard and who needs to be silenced.
Obviously, we could talk all day about the cozy relationship that many politicians have with big pharma, and it's not a surprise that they're going to act in favor of big pharma rather than in favor of the truth or free speech or people's health and well-being.
But the fact that this was...
And is the Biden administration's policy to decide that they are the arbiter of what is misinformation, disinformation, what is information, what is true and what is not, and that they will use the tools available to them both within the government as well as outside of the government in the case of big tech and social media to be able to enforce that.
And that's really the, you know, for people who aren't paying attention to this stuff at home and are just trying to live their lives and, you know, go to work and take care of their kids and just live their life, it's easy to fall victim to, like, well, the government wants what's best for us and they don't want us to be manipulated by misinformation or disinformation.
And so this is the line that they use.
Like, we're doing this for you.
We're trying to protect you.
So once again, we're going to take away some of your freedom and some of your privacy and tell you who you should be listening to and what information you should be getting.
joe rogan
The king knows.
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
unidentified
The king will tell the people how to live.
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
joe rogan
This is how you wash.
tulsi gabbard
This is coming from the same people who are telling us that boys can become girls on any day of the week because they feel like it.
joe rogan
Yeah, and Rachel Levine is the first female admiral.
unidentified
Exactly.
Yay!
joe rogan
Women win.
tulsi gabbard
And then they stand there and say, well, we are the champions for women, if they cannot even accept objective truth.
joe rogan
We're living in the strangest of strange times.
I also think that a lot of that stuff is being accentuated by social media, manipulated intentionally, because I think if you can just get those narratives out there enough, That affects the gullible people, that affects sensitive people, that affects people on the spectrum, it affects a lot of people, and then they start getting rewarded for leaning into one type of ideology, and then it's affecting people.
We are affected by our environment, and to pretend otherwise is just silly, especially when you're talking about young people.
Young people are particularly susceptible to propaganda, which is why they have young people wear suicide vests.
That's why.
You can't get a 50-year-old agnostic dude to wear a fucking suicide vest.
You know, he's gonna go, what am I gonna get when I blow up?
I'm gonna go to heaven?
Can you show me?
You got a video?
Is there a YouTube video I can watch?
What are you saying?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
But you could talk a five-year-old into it and that's what they do and that's sick.
tulsi gabbard
It is.
joe rogan
And it's just as sick to try to like indoctrinate them into these crazy ideologies because It's just people want other people to join their fucking team.
It's a common thing that people do.
tulsi gabbard
That's what's so concerning about...
We're seeing the fruits of the shift in our education system away from actually teaching about the Constitution and the founding documents and the Federalist Papers and the thought process behind that went into forming the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
In our schools, basic government, basic 101 on what is this country really about?
What is the foundation that we were built upon?
And what does it mean to you in your everyday life?
And talking about the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment and going down the list.
Because that has been absent largely from our education system for so long, it creates, again, this vulnerability of young people being susceptible.
They're not rooted in an ideology of freedom and what that means in our lives and why it's important, why we will fight to defend and protect it.
And so then they're like, well, I don't know.
Maybe what Hamas is offering is a superior ideology or superior value system than what we have here in America, which a lot of these kids are saying.
Whether they realize fully what it is or not, they are falling victim to that ideology, that radicalismist ideology, which would be completely oppressive in the lives that they are trying to live here.
joe rogan
Yeah, the whole proposal behind it is best highlighted by the meme, Queers for Palestine.
Yes, exactly.
And then Palestine for Queers.
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
The difference between, like, that idea is so crazy.
Like, what you're saying is so nuts.
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
joe rogan
And it's just this, fuck the system, fuck the government, fuck the patriarchy.
It's this ideology that gets promoted that's It's like frivolously wanting to destroy the foundation of this country.
And they'll say it openly.
We want to just stop colonialism.
Okay, and then what?
Then what happens?
What do you have?
What do you have?
You have warlords?
What do you have?
What's going to run the country?
How are you going to run it?
We can do it all the guns.
tulsi gabbard
Well, that's that's where, you know, the this again, Hamas had this whole thing planned, like, you know, gaining the compassion, the sympathy of the world.
joe rogan
How did they plan that?
How did they think that they were going to do that?
tulsi gabbard
That they knew how Israel would react and they were ready with social media and all of the means of communication to play on the sympathies of people, the compassion and kind-hearted people around the world.
And turn people's attention away from the 1,200 people that were murdered and killed and the people that were raped on that attack on October 7th.
Their goal being ultimately to influence populations around the world towards this Islamist ideology that they want to govern the world under Islamic rule, under Sharia law.
And we've seen already how it's been successful in some parts of the world, even in Europe and France.
Somebody was saying that I think it's 25% of France is already living under Sharia law.
And so this ideological war that's being waged is not—it's being waged by one side, and there's not a counter-narrative.
There's not a counter-war being waged on the other side to defeat it with a superior ideology of freedom and what we value as a society.
And that puts— This mission and this effort, and it's not just Hamas, obviously, Al-Qaeda and ISIS and other terrorist organizations around the world, they all have that same objective, which poses the greatest short and long-term threat to people who value freedom and to civilization.
joe rogan
And we're also so uniquely vulnerable in that we do have this sort of democracy.
It's obviously heavily influenced by money.
And then with the open borders, so you have all these people funneling into the country, and so you have an erosion of confidence.
our entire system because people are very aware of that and the more people are let out of jail after they commit violent crimes the more people are aware of that if you looked at the whole picture and all the things that are in play right now particularly like with the open borders and giving people plane tickets and flying them to all these different cities like if I was gonna try to destroy the country that's how I would do it
If I was going to try to destroy the country, I would radicalize the kids, I would give them the stupidest ideas and run them in their head.
Boys can be girls, girls can be boys, boys can compete against girls in sports if they think they're a girl.
Queers for Palestine, you know, the death to the Jews, yell it out unironically.
On campuses.
And to have the presidents of those colleges and universities defend it Which was wild.
tulsi gabbard
Completely.
joe rogan
With cameras on them!
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
It shows how scared they are.
It shows how afraid they are of actually calling out what is right and what is wrong.
joe rogan
I think it also shows how they live in a bubble.
And I don't think they interact with the real world.
And I think when they did, the shock was probably...
It was probably horrifying to just realize how most people feel about what they said.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, oh, it's not harassment unless it's actionable.
Like, what the fuck are you saying?
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
You're saying death to the Jews, so you have to kill Jews, and then it's harassment.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
Isn't that a little late?
tulsi gabbard
I was shocked, like everyone else, at not only their statements, but how every one of them sitting at that table on that day said almost the exact same thing.
And knowing how much preparation, because when people come, I don't care who you are, but when you come and testify before Congress, you go through preparation.
And if you're the president of an Ivy League university, you're gonna have a whole team of people sitting there telling you, okay, well, here are the questions you should probably be prepared to answer.
The question that Elise Stefanik asked was not outside of the realm of like, here's what the frequently asked questions would be.
And the fact that their answers were all the same and how they were smirking as they were giving that answer, I was very surprised by it.
Maybe I shouldn't have been as surprised given what they're doing.
joe rogan
I think we're sending our kids to cult camps.
That's what I think.
I think they get indoctrinated into this.
They don't all.
Some of them skate through.
Some of them are wise.
Some of them realize this is crazy.
Can't wait to get the fuck out of here and get my degree.
And then go to work.
But some of them just get locked in and then it becomes their identity.
And it's dangerous.
It's dangerous also because, look, Kids don't want to listen, okay?
And if you have kids, they don't want to listen to you.
They want to rebel.
And when they finally get to go away somewhere and be on their own, and your dad's a banker, you're like, fuck that asshole.
Capitalism is bullshit.
You're wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt.
You don't know what the fuck you're doing.
You're using chat GBT to answer your homework.
The whole thing is nuts.
And then you're allowing those young people to just trying out being an adult with a voice and an opinion and trying to be profound.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
And there's no consequences to actions.
joe rogan
No, it's weird.
It's weird.
It's weird.
It's weird that people can't see it, and I'm glad that some people are pulling funding.
Like, there's a lot of people that are donors, like, hey, fuck you.
Like, this is crazy.
And so that's fortunate, that there's some sort of a blowback.
But, you know, even that woman from Harvard, even though she got—she was caught plagiarizing.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
Many times.
Like, if you were a grad student, you got caught plagiarizing.
That would be a wrap for you.
But meanwhile, she keeps making the same amount of money.
They just gave her a different job.
They didn't even fire her.
tulsi gabbard
No.
joe rogan
The whole thing's crazy.
tulsi gabbard
It is.
joe rogan
The whole thing's crazy.
It's like, that's supposed to be Harvard.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's supposed to be the smartest people amongst us.
And when you heard that lady talk, you're like, hey, how did she get to the top?
That seems bananas.
It seems like you probably had some better choices.
Like, was there any other considerations into how she got that gig?
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
The plagiarism doesn't freak you guys out?
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
Isn't that, like, opposed to everything that you stand for?
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
Okay.
joe rogan
So what are you doing?
You're not the best and the brightest anymore.
You guys are doing nonsense.
This is a cult camp.
You got a cult camp.
You're indoctrinating people.
And where are you getting your money?
And how much of that money is coming from China?
And how much of the influence is coming from Russia?
How much of the influence like in the past has shaped these people?
So you have this system where academics go to school, they learn, they get indoctrinated and they start teaching and they never enter into the real world.
And they make this cycle and those are the people that keep indoctrinating more people and now they're infesting these social media apps and they're infesting all of these tech companies.
And everybody else is like, what are you doing?
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
This is crazy.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
But it's all coming from universities.
It's coming from the kids that get indoctrinated in these ideologies.
And I remember when I first started talking about this in like 2015 or 16, whenever the Jordan Peterson thing was happening, at first it was Brett Weinstein and Evergreen College.
And people were like, why do you care what's happening in these obscure colleges?
Hey, they're going to graduate.
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
joe rogan
Like when I see fire and it's five miles away, I don't go, oh, it's five miles away.
I go, hey, we got to get the fuck out of here now.
Get out of here now.
Fire's coming.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Get out.
Like this is like you don't see that these kids are going to leave school.
They're so crazy.
They believe that you should have a day where you tell white people they have to stay home when it used to be that it was an appreciation of people of color so they could take the day off and they would get paid.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
And you go, oh, I really miss Mike.
You know, I really miss Tanya.
It'd be great if she was here.
And boy, it's hard not working with her, you know, and doing her job and my job at the same time.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That makes sense.
But telling people, white people, they have to stay home and then threatening them with baseball bats if they don't have people roaming the parking lot with bats.
When I saw that, I was like, this is crazy.
And so many people were saying, why do you care?
unidentified
Well, they're going to go out in the world.
joe rogan
And if this is happening there, it's not an isolated situation.
It's happening to other people.
And then the Jordan Peterson thing in Toronto and like, okay, guys.
And now everyone is sort of realizing like, oh, this is a real problem.
This is infesting the world.
This ideology is pervasive.
And it's not well thought out.
This is not just like fact-based, objective assessment, being kind and understanding and taking into account all the variables.
No, it's like a cult.
tulsi gabbard
The problem is not everyone is seeing what's really happening.
You still have the AOCs of the world and many people within the leadership of the Democratic Party This is the direction we are headed.
And that's a very dangerous thing for so many reasons, but obviously because they're in a position of power and how they're using that power and how they're undermining the rule of law and choosing, again, who gets to speak freely and who gets to go and do whatever they want, break the law, disturb the peace, acts of violence, no, because what you think that their cause is justified.
But meanwhile, others who would do the very same thing would be charged with a crime.
joe rogan
Imagine if AOC got to write history books and they said, why do people sneak into America in 2024?
Oh, climate change.
20 years from now.
Climate change was so bad that people were walking from Guatemala to get plane tickets to fly to Michigan.
Like, for real?
Are you sure?
Are you sure that happened?
Maybe there's other variables?
What do you think?
Maybe he's encouraged?
unidentified
Perhaps.
joe rogan
Maybe there's a whole Red Cross map that they could follow?
Hey guys!
Maybe some of the stops along the way, they only speak Chinese, and they have Chinese signs, and it seems like there's a concerted effort to get people in from China.
Hey, something going on?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
No, just climate change.
Oh, so simple.
So nice to be able to just write something off.
tulsi gabbard
That's just as bad as the people who break into stores in New York City.
They're just hungry and trying to steal bread for their starving kids.
joe rogan
Yeah, that was a good one, too.
Yeah, that lady.
tulsi gabbard
Forget the guys who go in and steal 50 Apple iPhones from the store and run out and jump in their car or all of these other things.
It's hard to believe that a person who's a member of Congress can say that with a straight face.
joe rogan
Well, the best one was, do you ever see the conversation that she had with the news reporter where the reporter was asking her to clarify her thoughts on Israel and Palestine?
tulsi gabbard
Yes, I did.
joe rogan
That one's wonderful.
tulsi gabbard
She had nothing to say.
joe rogan
It seemed like she didn't even know where they were.
If you gave her a map and this had no names on it, which one of these is Israel?
What do you know about the history?
What happened in 1947?
Anything?
What was going on before that?
Who lived there first?
What's Judea?
What's that place about?
What's the biblical significance of these locations?
Any?
How long has this dispute been going on?
What's happening?
How much are we funding this?
tulsi gabbard
There are these girls who, again, I don't know where this video is, I'm sure it's everywhere now, but they left Columbia to go and stand with the students protesting at NYU. And somebody said, well, why are you here?
They're like, oh, we're here to stand in solidarity with the protesters.
What is NYU doing that you're protesting?
Oh, I don't really know.
And then she turned to her friend.
She's like, why are we here?
What are they doing that's wrong?
And the friend said, I wish I was more educated because I don't really know either.
Well, you know...
joe rogan
They're just out there being virtuous.
tulsi gabbard
Somebody asked us to come, so we're just coming to stand in solidarity.
joe rogan
Well, there's this thing that you can do now where if you just yell out the thing that's popular, now you become cooler than you really are.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a new thing you can do.
And if you're like really rabid about it, you know, and then you can demand other people do it on their social media.
Like, how come you're not putting a black square up on Tuesday?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
I mean, all of these things.
These were major drivers for me in leaving the insanity of what has become today's Democratic Party and where I have seen and heard directly from so many people who are or have already woken up to that fact of literally just being common-sense-minded Americans who are just...
There's no explanation.
There's no logic.
There's no rationale that you can give for these kinds of things happening, and not just by some rogue member of Congress.
I mean, it's happening from the very top.
joe rogan
Yeah, and it's...
It's the consequence of money being involved in politics and that seems like that web is so deep and those roots run so deep that to try to stop that now is almost impossible.
It's almost like the only way to solve this is to give corporations conscience.
It's like the only way to solve this is You've got to figure out, like, who is funding what and why?
Why is so much money being spent on this versus that?
And one of the things about AI is that If AI is asked at a certain point in time, when it becomes sentient or really super powerful, what is the solution between the conflict between Ukraine and Russia?
And what's the cause of it?
And AI gives a real comprehensive analysis of the US government-funded coup from 2014 and how NATO has been moving arms closer to Russia.
Lays it all out and like this is the definitive objective.
No ideology, no bullshit reason why this is happening.
And these are the companies that are pushing the conflict and this is the amount of money they're making from it.
And here's the amount of money that's missing because there's corruption involved in Ukraine.
As much as people don't want to admit, one of the wildest ones was Candace Owens on Twitter where the New York Times They tweet at her like, what evidence do you have of corruption in Ukraine?
And she's like, from your own fucking newspaper?
Posting links?
It's like, do you guys not even check before you tweet out publicly?
tulsi gabbard
Do you not do journalism?
joe rogan
Well, they were also the ones that said, the New York Times said that that bomb landed in the hospital and killed 500 people.
And apparently it landed in the parking lot and killed a small number of people.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it probably was not from Israel, but was actually one of the Islamic terrorists had launched a bomb and it accidentally landed in the parking lot.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, yeah.
And no effort to actually, truly, not in the fine print on the back page of the paper, but actually make sure that they got the facts right.
joe rogan
Well, and certainly no equivalent coverage of the actual true story versus the original story, which you should do.
It's like, yeah, maybe you got bad information.
Explain how you got bad information.
Same people who read the newspaper will read this, and now they know.
Let them know.
Don't just fucking hide it.
Don't pretend you didn't fuck up.
tulsi gabbard
I mean, it's the same reason why with Julian Assange, you know, back when, you know, his criminal charges were first coming up, they were saying, hey, this is a threat to journalism, that you can't suppress the free press.
It is a violation of the First Amendment.
And if you go after Julian Assange today...
Mm-hmm.
Why?
They have become, unfortunately, a political arm of the Democrat elite.
And it's the same reason why they stopped reporting on actual corruption in Ukraine, because they get, okay, what's the narrative that we've got to push?
And they're not going to go against it.
Not allow facts and journalism to get in the way of that.
joe rogan
It's spooky.
It's spooky for people that count on them for the news.
It's like, okay, now who do I have to trust?
Who can I listen to?
And it turns out it's like a lot of independent people, and those are the only ones that are free.
They're free to actually report for now.
Did that TikTok thing pass?
tulsi gabbard
It did pass.
It's done.
joe rogan
That's it?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
Jesus.
joe rogan
Do you know Adam Curry?
tulsi gabbard
It will be challenged.
I'm sure it'll be challenged in court.
I don't know by who or what the next steps will be, but I'm sure it will be challenged.
I believe that President Biden signed it into law.
Actually, I know he did.
But the timeline of execution, I think they gave something like 180 days for TikTok to be sold to an American company.
joe rogan
Oh, great.
Give it to Bill Gates.
tulsi gabbard
But even if that's a pretty tight turnaround when you look at that, but that doesn't negate all of the other provisions within that law that further violate our civil liberties.
joe rogan
Do you know Adam Curry?
tulsi gabbard
I don't.
joe rogan
Adam Curry used to be an MTV VJ. He's the original podcaster.
He's the podfather.
The real number one.
Brilliant guy.
But I had him on the podcast quite a while ago and he said that all this uproar over TikTok is total bullshit.
He said what it is is the Chinese are eating our lunch.
Like they've developed an app that is more addictive And collects data just like our apps do, and we don't like it.
We don't like it because their one is way better.
And so they're trying to do something to shut it down because they're using it to influence us and like, hey, we're the only ones allowed to do that.
And that's what he thinks.
And when he said that, I was like, I never really considered that because I always was like, oh, there's TikTok is like really bad.
You've got to like read the fine print, and it is bad.
I mean if you look at just the terms of service like when you're agreeing, you know, the conditions that you agree to, like they get to monitor your keystrokes.
So that means they can probably monitor your passwords.
They can probably check out all your emails.
They get to monitor other computers that are connected to the network even if they don't have TikTok on them.
Like it's bananas.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Who else is doing that?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, exactly.
That's the point.
joe rogan
When you and I are having a conversation and then all of a sudden we talk about Toyota trucks and there's an app for a Toyota truck, like, hey, did you guys know that we were talking about, are you listening, Google?
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
What are you doing?
tulsi gabbard
Google, Meta, Facebook, Instagram, all of it.
joe rogan
How the fuck do you know what I'm interested in?
tulsi gabbard
Right, exactly.
joe rogan
Because they're trying to sell you things.
They're all trying to sell you things.
tulsi gabbard
Of course.
Of course.
joe rogan
Yeah, and the best way to sell people things is find out what the fuck they're talking about.
What do you want?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, I mean, it makes total sense, of course.
Elon and X, well, Elon specifically, was the only one who stood up amongst our American big tech companies to say, no, this is a very bad bill.
The others, to my knowledge, were very, very silent, or they were actually coming out in support of it.
Competition.
Makes sense.
The other piece of that is, other than X and TikTok, the Biden administration has been very successful at working with Google and Meta, Facebook, Instagram, in being able to control quote-unquote disinformation and information.
So when you look at from a government standpoint, well, if you're concerned about data security and privacy, why aren't you doing it across the board and treating every social media company that Americans use with that same standard?
Well, maybe they're just going after the ones that they can't actually control and intimidate into doing their work for them, which is why it makes sense why Elon Musk and others would say, well, of course, if today it's TikTok, then why wouldn't it be X tomorrow?
joe rogan
It's interesting to me that people don't seem to understand the value and importance of a guy like Elon, who's this wild billionaire character who likes to dunk on people.
Like, that guy being like, did you see that thing that he posted the other day?
Because there's a...
One of the guys who's from Facebook, I believe, said that what Elon is doing is corruption on an Enron level, I think you compared it to.
So Elon posted a photo of a dog laying its balls on another dog's head.
tulsi gabbard
I did not see this.
joe rogan
And was dunking on this dude.
I'm like, how wild is this guy?
And then someone said, did you really spend $44 billion on Twitter so you can dunk on people?
And he writes 100%.
unidentified
I don't know how he has time for this.
joe rogan
I don't get it.
I don't understand it.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
tulsi gabbard
And do everything else that he's doing.
joe rogan
He's a fascinating guy.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, his brain is a fucking tornado of information just flying around all the time, and I think it helps him to be able to just fuck around and be silly.
But he was the only one that recognized that there's a real problem if you have the entire narrative Being controlled by one ideology through all the social media apps, and that's what's going on.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
They're all tech companies.
Tech companies have hired people that are coming from universities, and they're all infected by this ideology.
And it's nuts that that's the case.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then they've done a really good job.
If you go to like Gab or any other, especially initially, It was so nuts.
You're like, oh my god, I gotta get out of here.
It was like going to a Nazi party.
Even if you're not a Nazi, there's Sieg Heil in the corner.
I'm like, shit, I gotta get out of here.
I don't know how it is now.
tulsi gabbard
I never went in those rooms.
joe rogan
I don't know how it is now, but I guarantee some of that was fake, too.
I guarantee when they came up with these alternative platforms that people wanted to squash the idea of having people that were free outside of Twitter and Facebook that were reasonable people that just wanted objective conversation, which I guarantee most of them were.
Most of them were tired of being censored on Twitter and shadow ban and all that shit.
So they try these other, whether it's Gab or Truth Social or any of them.
I guarantee you, look, if I was an intelligence agent and I was inclined to do, I would get in there and start seeing Highland.
I'd go crazy.
I'd post the most racist memes and have everybody salute.
I'd go nutty.
I'd have fake accounts liking those things and getting excited about it and reposting it because that's how you make a place toxic.
And that's how you kill the competition.
I would do that.
I would do that if I was running Twitter.
If you were just a kid, I obviously wouldn't do it, me as a person.
But if I was an evil fuck, I would be like, this is the way to do it.
tulsi gabbard
It makes sense.
How do you make it a place where people don't want to be?
joe rogan
How hard is that to do?
You hire a bunch of people to do it, you get algorithms, you develop them, you start posting memes and shit.
Easy.
Now you make it toxic.
Now I look and I go, ugh, gotta get out of here.
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
Yeah, and so then you don't have an alternative, and you go back to Twitter, and you just deal with the fact that you're being censored, and you deal with the fact that if you're a left-wing person, you can say the most outrageous shit, even call for violence against people.
Twitter caught selling data to government spies while complaining about surveillance.
In for a penny, in for a data mine.
Is this recently?
What is this saying now?
jamie vernon
They have a deal with a company called Data Miner.
joe rogan
And what does Data Miner do?
It uses AI technology to constantly monitor public activity on social media and other parts of the web.
In doing so, its clients often law enforcement can receive customized real-time alerts on what's brewing online, which helps them to respond to natural disasters or, more ominously, spy on protests, notes The Intercept.
Okay.
But also...
Does allow them real-time alerts of what's brewing online.
So you're not saying they're censoring people.
You're saying that they're allowing them to look at data.
So that data could be like how many people are posting about some sort of a protest where they want to burn down a church or whatever the fuck it is.
You're talking about a different thing than banning people from posting things, especially these people that are experts from Harvard and MIT and This is a different thing.
tulsi gabbard
I've seen...
I mean, there's a data miner app.
I've seen how the information flows through.
I don't know what the...
It says, the story revealed the surveillance firm pays for special access to a fire hose of data from Twitter.
I'd be curious about what that fire hose of data is.
joe rogan
It says, data miner has a unique contractual relationship with Twitter whereby they have real-time access to the full stream of all publicly available tweets.
But it's just publicly available tweets that are already available.
So it's like a very high-level search function?
A company representative sent an email to the government agency per the report.
So is that like a search function?
Because it's all public tweets.
So they have access to the stream of all publicly available tweets.
But doesn't everybody have access to the publicly available tweets?
jamie vernon
Not with AI. Right.
Software.
joe rogan
Right.
jamie vernon
Monitoring it.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
But if you did have an AI, say if you had an AI, whether it's Google's AI or any AI, you said, hey, go look at Twitter.
Tell me who's talking about Nazis.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
Curating the tweets that are coming into your feed.
jamie vernon
That's part of what he's been complaining about online is how many people, and they blocked access to many programs that did have access to the API because it costs money for them every time someone's taking that, so they just kind of cut it all off.
Like I used to use TweetDeck to look at Twitter all the time.
joe rogan
That doesn't work anymore?
jamie vernon
You have to pay for it.
tulsi gabbard
Oh, interesting.
joe rogan
Oh, interesting.
How come?
jamie vernon
Because...
I honestly don't know.
Arguably, it would just be like, it was a good feature, so you might as well make people pay for it, because they need to make money.
joe rogan
How much TweetDeck cost?
jamie vernon
It's part of the pro.
See, they pay for pro.
joe rogan
Okay.
And then there's the other thing where like Apple takes a slice of that if you're getting it off of your iPhone, right?
If you get from the App Store.
jamie vernon
That's where it is.
If you pay for it on like Twitter, on the website, no.
But if you use the phone app on your phone to do it, then yes.
joe rogan
That's what I'm saying.
Apple's got the wildest thing going.
They get 30% of everything.
They have so much money.
They have more money than countries.
There's a lot of countries that don't have as much money as Apple.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, I believe it.
joe rogan
It's pretty nutty.
tulsi gabbard
That's being challenged, I feel like, in a lawsuit too, right?
joe rogan
Yes.
There's certain there's certain things that Apple does that are thought to Be anti-competitive in it right in a kind of a creepy way and one of them that they just recently got rid of is the Lightning connection right so up until iPhone 15 or 16 16 What are we on now 16?
We're on 15 now?
So up until 15, you used to have to use a lightning connector, which only works on Apple devices.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
Now you can use USB-C, which is way better.
It's better for connectivity, it's better for charging, get faster charging.
Like the Android phones, particularly like Samsung Galaxy, to go to full charge is like an hour less time.
Because it takes faster watt charging than the iPhone does.
And for the longest time, it would be a much better transfer of data because of USB-C. It's just a better, more efficient system.
But Apple's like, yeah, you gotta use...
So the European Union, I think that was the problem.
They couldn't sell them over there.
They were admitted illegal.
So then they had to switch it over to USB-C. So now everybody at least has a universal thing.
And then there's the problem with text messaging.
So...
If you have an Android and you send me a text message, it comes out green.
And I send you one that comes green.
Because it's text.
It's SMS. And so now they're going to adopt RCS. So the idea is, since you can't have iMessage on everything, at least you'll have encryption and you'll be able to send large file sizes.
And that's what RCS is.
Interesting.
Which is like a higher level of text messaging that's been enjoyed by people who use Androids, but not when they communicate with iPhones.
iPhones were forcing people to use SMS. It's shitty.
It's inferior.
You get blurry images and videos.
Not the same resolution.
It cuts it all down because it has to fit in the SMS format.
So now you'll be able to share photos just like you will with an iPhone to iPhone.
tulsi gabbard
Interesting.
So no more green text messages?
joe rogan
Nope.
The text messages will still be green.
tulsi gabbard
Oh, interesting.
joe rogan
Yeah, they want you to feel like shit.
They want you to feel like shit for having a different device.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, exactly.
unidentified
It works, kids.
tulsi gabbard
It does work.
joe rogan
The thing with kids, I think with teenagers, see if this is true, I believe I read that it was something like 86% of all teenagers, it was some high number, of all teenagers use iPhones.
Like, you're shunned if you use an Android.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which is crazy.
tulsi gabbard
It is crazy.
joe rogan
It's weird.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
But that's how tribal people are.
We're tribal about our cell phones.
tulsi gabbard
It's nuts.
joe rogan
We're tribal about the kind of computers we use, the kind of sneakers.
I'm an Adidas guy.
Fuck Nike.
You know, like, people are crazy.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
87% of teens in the USA have an iPhone, while 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone, according to a survey from investment firm Piper Sandler.
That is a monopoly.
tulsi gabbard
It's a huge monopoly.
joe rogan
That is wild.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's wild.
tulsi gabbard
And how they control their apps and how much money they make off of the apps.
joe rogan
Well, also, their whole ecosystem is amazing.
It's really good.
Like, they figured out a lot of really good things.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, it's so convenient that I can write on my computer, and then I can transfer it to my notes, and it's automatically on my phone.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
I don't have to do anything else.
tulsi gabbard
I use it all the time.
joe rogan
It's so good.
tulsi gabbard
Yep.
joe rogan
That's so good.
You can do that with Samsung.
You can do that with Android.
You'd have to switch systems and relearn.
It's not hard to do.
They're pretty intuitive.
I have a Samsung phone.
I have an older one.
I have a Galaxy, one of the Ultras that I used to think took a clear photo of the moon, but it's actually bullshit.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do you know that story?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
You don't know that?
tulsi gabbard
No.
joe rogan
They got me.
They got me.
There was a feature that's still a feature.
It's kind of amazing.
It's called Moonshot.
And so you could be looking at the moon.
If you look at the moon with your iPhone and try to take a photo of it, it looks like dog shit.
It looks terrible because it's just like this blurry thing.
If you zoom in, it looks terrible.
But with Samsung's, when you zoom in, it holds a square over the moon and it enhances it.
And it gives you like 100x zoom.
So you get this crazy digital zoom, you zoom in on the moon, and it looks really clear.
But it turned out it was his AI. No!
Yes, yes.
Because some clever internet people...
Because you can't fool the internet.
What they did is they took a blurry image of the moon and they put it on a desktop computer and then took a photo with the camera of the blurry image on the desktop computer and it filled it in and made it pretty.
Wow.
tulsi gabbard
That's kind of smart.
That's a smart hack to figure it out.
joe rogan
I've seen people try to argue away and say, well, it's actually no different than how AI enhances normal fire.
unidentified
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
No.
joe rogan
No, you take a picture.
tulsi gabbard
You're talking about the moon.
There's a lot of detail there.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
What if there's a UFO I missed?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
There's a UFO. Exactly.
You're trying to tell me the mothership is circling around the moon and you're lying to me.
You guys are liars.
But other than that, the technology is actually superior on those phones.
tulsi gabbard
The Samsung's?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
It's quite a bit better.
The screens are quite a bit better.
The screens have an anti-reflective coating on the new S24 Ultra.
So even in bright sunlight when you're outside, you could read your screen perfect.
You don't have the glare that you do when you're trying to look at your phone like this.
You don't have to do that with Samsung's.
You also have superior battery life.
You only have like a tiny little circle that's missing from the screen for the camera.
You don't have that big ass stupid bar that's in the front for face ID. There's a lot of things.
It has a pen.
Write on it.
It has AI features.
It lets you translate in real time.
You and I can be having a conversation.
You could be speaking Spanish and it would show me in English in real time.
And then I could speak to you in English and it would show you in Spanish.
So the phone gets split down the middle.
So this side faces you and that side faces me.
And we would have a conversation and I could read what you're saying.
And then you could wear these earbuds and it will translate it in real time.
tulsi gabbard
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
Which is crazy.
tulsi gabbard
That's incredible.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
tulsi gabbard
I tried using the Google Translate app when I was down at the border and talking to different people from different parts of the world and it sucked.
It's like the intent I think was for that to happen is like you just turn on the microphone and then I could speak and they could see in the screen like it's translating into their language and then they could respond in their language and you're just seeing it play out real time but it didn't work.
joe rogan
It didn't work.
tulsi gabbard
It just didn't work.
The thing froze or it didn't translate and then you got to push all these buttons and then even then...
joe rogan
Well, the Samsung one is using AI, and I think it's the most advanced version.
It also has a thing where it lets you organize your notes in AI. And also, it'll change the tone of your text messages.
It'll suggest things that are more polite or more friendly.
Yeah, there's modes that you can do, so you can do AI for that.
tulsi gabbard
That might piss me off sometime if I don't really want to write a polite text message.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Well, then you don't have to.
You can write it in your own language.
You can write it however you want.
tulsi gabbard
In your own voice.
joe rogan
But then you can also ask it to make this more polite.
tulsi gabbard
Oh, wow.
Okay.
joe rogan
That's what it is.
So it's not as long as I say, hey, Tulsi, how about you be a little nicer?
tulsi gabbard
Right, exactly.
It doesn't do that.
It's not policing me.
joe rogan
It also will summarize webpages.
So if you go to a webpage, you go, I don't want to read all this shit.
Give me a summary.
And it'll instantly say, this is what's going on.
This is the problem.
Here's what's the dilemma.
And you're like, oh.
It'll break things down to you.
So it's using AI on the phone.
tulsi gabbard
In constructive ways.
joe rogan
But 86% of kids don't have it.
tulsi gabbard
Weird.
Weird.
Have you heard of this unplugged phone that Eric Prince is doing?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Yeah, I have heard of it.
tulsi gabbard
It's interesting.
I just got one.
I haven't set it up yet.
But it is what they're saying is the most secure means of communication.
Obviously, technology is never 100% secure.
But the fact that it does not have the same ad ID numbers that every one of our other phones has, Apple, Samsung, whatever, makes it so that we are able to protect more of our information than we would otherwise.
joe rogan
Right, but do you get to use apps with that?
Yeah.
Can you use Instagram?
tulsi gabbard
They have their own operating system and their own apps, but you can also download whatever apps you want to download.
joe rogan
But if you download Instagram...
tulsi gabbard
And they're the settings.
You are able to actually make it so that Instagram is not able to collect the kind of data that they would otherwise.
Really?
joe rogan
Yes.
What is it operating on?
Is it like graphene?
What is the operating system?
tulsi gabbard
I haven't set it up yet.
It is an operating system.
They got the guy who, as their CTO, who created the Pegasus system.
joe rogan
Oh great, you can trust him.
tulsi gabbard
That was my question.
joe rogan
If you're gonna make, first of all, if you're gonna make a honeypot phone...
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, there's two sides of that.
Is if you created it, then ideally you would know how to protect against it, right?
joe rogan
Yes, for sure.
Or you would say, look, the kind of people that want a phone like this, these rah-rah-fuck-the-government people, these type of people that might get visited by the FBI, give them a phone, call it the Patriot phone or whatever the fuck you want to call it.
And make it a nice little honeypot.
I'm not saying that it isn't.
tulsi gabbard
No, no, no.
So I asked them, it sounds like this is the perfect kind of phone for people in the military or people who are conducting different kinds of operations because of all of these protections and so on and so forth.
And they said they're intentionally not selling to the U.S. government because they don't want that doubt to be in people's minds that this is some kind of op that's happening that will allow some kind of surveillance to take place.
Anyway, it's interesting.
joe rogan
That is interesting.
There are other phones that do that.
There's phones that operate on an operating system called Graphene OS. We take a phone, like a Google phone, and they de-Google it.
So they remove all the Google stuff, and then there's a bunch of detailed instructions of how to do it.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
And then they put this new operating system on, and when the new operating system works, all your shit doesn't work.
Like all the normal Google services and all that stuff.
It's a completely different operating system.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
Theirs, they have figured out how to do both.
You can toggle on and off what mode you want to be in, and it's got the VPNs and everything else.
joe rogan
And that suspicious hippo face.
Yeah.
Yeah, skeptical hippo.
Yeah.
Yeah, if someone did figure something like out, that'd be great.
I've asked Elon about that once, because I'd read this story about a Tesla phone.
He's like, oh god, I hope we don't have to make phones.
But it's the way he said it.
I hope we don't have to make phones.
tulsi gabbard
Interesting.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
Because when you look at the interconnectedness between, you know, Tesla and you look at obviously the power element and then the car element and then you look at the content platform that they are building X into, like the vision that they have for it to be the one-stop shop, not only for all different kinds of media, but for, you know, payment and interaction and business and commerce and everything else.
It's interesting when you look at that direction of connectivity.
joe rogan
It is also interesting that if you have a Tesla, and I have one, I love it.
You can't get Apple CarPlay.
Doesn't come with it.
No Apple CarPlay.
tulsi gabbard
Fuck off.
joe rogan
Fuck off, stupid.
Use our shit.
tulsi gabbard
So what can you use then?
Just their organic...
joe rogan
Well, you can Bluetooth your phone.
Like, you can play music.
Like, if you have Spotify hooked up to your phone on Bluetooth, you play a song on Spotify to play on that.
And you also have, like, there's a lot of options.
Like, Spotify's built into the system.
So you can just, like, tell it.
You can, like, press it, play Notorious B.I.G. And it'll just start playing a random song.
You can tell it what song to play.
tulsi gabbard
Interesting.
joe rogan
You press a button, you say, hey, navigate to Eddie V's Steakhouse.
Bam, it'll take you there.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
So, and it's got this big-ass...
Huge screen.
I don't know how long it is.
How long is the screen in our cars?
It was like 18 inches.
Looks like it's about 18 inches, right?
And it's just massive map.
So like for navigation and everything, it's great.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
But If I was going to make a phone, I wouldn't allow Android or Apple to have CarPlay.
tulsi gabbard
Fuck off.
Fuck off.
joe rogan
Use my shit.
unidentified
And then once you develop an X phone, I wouldn't be surprised.
tulsi gabbard
I could see it.
joe rogan
I'm sure he's thought of it.
I'm sure he's thought of it other than me saying that to him.
I'm sure that's not the first time he thought of it.
Because if anybody could pull it off, it's probably...
It's probably Twitter and X, whatever.
If they came up with a SpaceX phone, all the nerds would be like, gimme, gimme, gimme.
Especially if it was good.
Especially if people move to more secure messaging systems that are end-to-end encrypted, like Signal, which also I get skeptical about.
I read something on one of them forums where they're saying that Signal was funded by CIA money.
Is that true?
Which is not...
That's not good.
And then there's WhatsApp, which is owned by Facebook.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
WhatsApp is...
Not a secure form of communication.
joe rogan
It's not?
tulsi gabbard
No.
joe rogan
Is it sus?
tulsi gabbard
No.
It's more than sus.
unidentified
Super sus?
joe rogan
Super sus?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
I just want to hear you say super sus.
tulsi gabbard
It's confirmed sus.
How about that?
joe rogan
Freedom of the Press Foundation acted as Signal's fiscal sponsor.
Between 2013 and 2016, the project received grants from the Knight Foundation, the Shuttleworth Foundation, and almost $3 million from the U.S. government.
Sponsored Open Technology Fund.
unidentified
Hmm.
Yeah.
joe rogan
What does that say there on Reddit?
Article claims signals origins as a U.S. government asset are...
Asset are public record and a lack of funding is because of the CIA? Found this article that makes it claim that Signal's origins as a U.S. government asset are a matter of extensive public record even if the scope and scale of the funding provided has until now.
Does anyone here know what public records they're referring to here?
It says if so, does anyone have links to these public records?
This means Signal is a honeypot.
Hmm.
They also say that Signal handed people over to the CIA. I'd like to know what actually evidence of that exists.
If it's true, that kind of sucks.
That's what it says there.
But Tucker said that he was communicating through Signal and that the government contacted him and said, we know that you're setting up a meeting with Putin.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because we read your signal.
And he was like, I didn't know you could even do that.
tulsi gabbard
Well, this connects directly back to the FISA Section 702 law.
Because if they are surveilling certain foreign entities in Russia, then an American citizen like Tucker Carlson communicating with them, the government is then able to just immediately go in again without a warrant and saying, OK, we got to go before a judge.
And even if they do go before a judge, it is a secret court.
There is there is only one side that's presented, which is the government saying we need to go and capture all of Tucker's data.
For example, I have no idea if this actually happened, but let's say that's the scenario.
That court, and this is public information, that court approves 99.9999999% of all requests that the government makes to go in and surveil American citizens.
It's essentially a rubber stamp, which is exactly the problem.
That's where I could foresee, okay, well, Tucker's communicating on Signal.
This surveillance law that just was strengthened recently when Congress passed it and Biden signed it into law allows that to happen.
joe rogan
So it's all bullshit then.
So Signal, unplug phone, all that stuff.
If that's the case, if they have the ability to read signal, don't you think they have the ability to read every single piece of information that gets sent from your phone?
They can intercept it and read it.
It just makes sense that they can do that.
I don't know how you're going to protect that.
Maybe I'm ignorant, but I don't understand how you could protect that.
With a different operating system, as long as it's using the same cell phone signals.
I understand that you're saying it's encrypted, but is that encryption impossible to crack?
Is there a source of that encryption?
Couldn't someone just get the phone and figure it out and back-engineer it?
Seems like they could.
tulsi gabbard
An interesting thing about, I asked this same question about this unplugged phone.
And if you're using, which I hadn't heard before about any other app, but if you're using their version of Signal, their, you know, texting app that you can do calls and FaceTime and whatever through with another app on another unplugged phone, Every time you connect a call or you send a text message, it generates a new encryption key.
Versus Signal, which is when you download it and you set up your account or whatever, that is your key.
joe rogan
But would you have to have an unplugged phone for me to talk to you in that encrypted app?
tulsi gabbard
Yes, I believe so.
joe rogan
So you would have to have it and I would have to have it?
tulsi gabbard
I believe so.
Because I don't know that their app is available on Apple, for example.
joe rogan
Right.
See, that would be interesting if someone developed something that did that, that developed a new certificate.
tulsi gabbard
The generation of a new encrypted key every time you're using it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
And starting a conversation.
That's...
unidentified
It all seems like a futile race.
joe rogan
It just seems like the boundaries between people and privacy.
A signal facing collapse after CIA cuts funding.
Oh, Jesus.
jamie vernon
This is an investigative journalist on a website.
I then looked up his account.
His account is suspended on Twitter or X. I don't know why, but this is an article that says some interesting things.
But I don't know how much of this is fact.
That's almost why I hesitated to bring it up.
It does say...
joe rogan
A friend of mine...
So, hold on a second.
Never acknowledged in any serious way by the mainstream media.
Signals origins as a U.S. government asset or a matter of extensive public record, even if the scope and the scale of the funding provided has until now been secret.
The apt brainchild of shadowy tech guru, Moxie Marlinspike, by the way.
tulsi gabbard
That's called...
joe rogan
He came on the podcast.
He's not shadowy.
tulsi gabbard
Did he really?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's on the podcast.
Wow.
Not shadowy at all.
tulsi gabbard
Interesting.
joe rogan
No, like regular guy.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Some of this is probably horseshit.
Real name, Matthew Rosenfeld.
How dare you, Moxie?
You have a fake name.
Was launched.
In 2013, by his now-defunct Open Whisper Systems, the company never published financial statements or disclosed the identities of its funders at any point during its operation.
Some's involved in developing, launching, and running a message app used by countless people globally will nonetheless be surely significant.
The newly published financial records indicate signals operating costs for 2023 alone are $40 million and projected to rise to $50 million by 2025. Rosenfeld boasted in 2018 that OWS never took VC venture capital funding or sought investment at any point, though mysteriously failed to mention millions were provided by the Open Technology Fund.
Yeah, and that's the money.
Oh, here we go.
Open Technology Fund was launched in 2012 as a pilot program of Radio Free Asia, an asset of the U.S. Agency for Global Media.
Oh, boy.
Which is funded by U.S. Congress to the tune of over $1 billion annually.
In 2018, the then CEO openly acknowledged the agency's global priorities reflect U.S. national security and public diplomacy interests.
That sounds sus.
Is that super sus?
tulsi gabbard
That is super sus.
unidentified
I just like you saying super sus.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's a little iffy.
tulsi gabbard
It's very, I would say so.
joe rogan
If it's true, or if it's not true, it's a disinformation campaign designed to cripple Signal and to lose people's trust in Signal.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, perhaps.
That last thing there, though, is a separate issue of concern of the United States government funding...
U.S. propaganda, essentially, in different parts of the world.
joe rogan
I would like to talk to real nerds about this phone, this unplugged phone.
The real nerds.
I would like to have the real nerds look at this and go, yes or no.
tulsi gabbard
What do you think is going on there?
I'm curious as well.
joe rogan
Is there reviews of the unplugged phone by any of them super smart people?
jamie vernon
It still says it's on pre-order.
joe rogan
Oh, but they have them.
Brian Callen has one.
Tulsa, you have one.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
jamie vernon
It says buy now, but I don't...
Let's see what happens if I say buy now.
I can buy it.
joe rogan
Oh, so it's not pre-order.
unidentified
It used to be pre-order?
joe rogan
Like, until recently?
unidentified
I'll just show you what I saw.
jamie vernon
Pre-order today.
See?
joe rogan
Right.
It says the positive $4.99.
Did you just go to the actual?
jamie vernon
I did.
And that's where, like, I started clicking stuff.
joe rogan
Oh, so maybe it used to be.
Maybe that was the link at one point in time.
It said pre-order.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
It'd be interesting if people use this.
unidentified
But it's like, I mean, I need someone to tell.
joe rogan
Is it $1,900?
jamie vernon
Actually, I have two in the cart.
joe rogan
What, are you buying phones, you psycho?
unidentified
What are you doing?
I was trying to see what it was going to ship.
If it says shipping in three months, that means it's not available.
jamie vernon
You know what I'm saying?
joe rogan
Right.
What if we start using those?
I don't know.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, it is very interesting because there are other phones that I've seen in the past who have tried this and not succeeded.
And I don't know whether it was a virtue of the time in our country where people maybe just weren't that interested in having a secure means of communication or a secure phone.
joe rogan
Well, people don't want the inconvenience and most people don't have to think about this, right?
So they're not thinking about the government looking at everything they do.
What are they doing?
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
Just trying to get laid and trying to have fun.
They're just trying to do normal stuff.
They don't care.
But if 86 or whatever the number was, percent of kids use iPhones, they are locked into that ecosystem.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're locked in with your photographs.
You're locked in with everything.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, you've got Apple Pay and you've got the whole thing.
unidentified
Everything.
tulsi gabbard
All you need is your phone.
joe rogan
You use your phone.
I use my phone as a remote control to control Apple TV. It's crazy.
It's actually better than the real remote control.
tulsi gabbard
Interesting.
joe rogan
Because you can type on the keyboard instead of doing that stupid thing where you have to go.
tulsi gabbard
Oh, gosh.
Yeah.
Letter by letter scrolling.
joe rogan
You try to find a movie.
It takes five minutes to type it out.
You can just type it on your phone.
tulsi gabbard
Interesting.
joe rogan
Yeah.
The Apple remote control thing is fucking great.
It's better.
The problem is, when you have these walled gardens, like Apple's ecosystem, it's very difficult when you have everything over there, all your stuff, your email, your this, your that.
tulsi gabbard
To jump off of that.
joe rogan
It's hard.
And most people don't ever do it.
They just go, ugh, too much work.
Like, whatever you're on, whether you're on Android or whether you're on Apple.
But they try to make it easy.
They try to lure you over.
They try to get you to switch.
Nobody wants to do it.
tulsi gabbard
I think that's where it is.
It is interesting to me that more and more people are paying attention to government surveillance, their ability to reach into our private information, and who is allowing that to happen.
joe rogan
I think they count on the majority of us not being aware.
And I think that is the case today.
The majority of people are not aware and they don't think of it as a primary concern.
The majority of people are way more concerned about climate change.
You think it's a majority of people?
I think it's a lot of people.
They'll say it at least.
How much they know about it is weird.
I've had conversations with people where they talk about like, hey, they all agree.
We've got to act now about the climate.
And I go, what did you hear?
Tell me what you hear.
Have a conversation.
Let them just spill it all out.
Don't even challenge them.
Just let them spill it all out.
And it's like AOC talking about Palestine and Israel.
It's like, um...
I'm not really...
tulsi gabbard
It's like a centimeter deep.
joe rogan
Not exactly.
unidentified
I'm not sure something's happening.
joe rogan
They don't know what they're talking about.
And if you say, have you ever looked at a video of the difference in the shoreline from like 1987 to today?
Have you ever done that?
tulsi gabbard
Have I done it?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
I've seen for Hawaii.
Yeah.
joe rogan
What's the difference?
It's bigger.
tulsi gabbard
It is.
joe rogan
Much bigger.
Because Hawaii grows because it's a volcano.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But when you look at the shoreline, a lot of places are kind of seems the same.
And also these like fucking psycho rich people are buying houses like on the beach.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do they know something we don't know?
Don't you think if they really thought that the oceans were going to rise 100 feet in the next week, that the fucking insurance companies would go, hey, you can't buy that.
tulsi gabbard
Or even the next five years.
joe rogan
Well, people are having a hard time getting homeowner's insurance in California because of the wildfires.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, that's true.
joe rogan
That's a real one.
tulsi gabbard
That's a very big issue.
joe rogan
That's a real one.
That's a real one.
But they're not having a hard time if they're right next to the water.
Yeah.
It's not like tsunami insurance.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
They even have that?
tulsi gabbard
Tsunami insurance?
I don't know.
I want to say yes.
joe rogan
I bet that's like carved out.
tulsi gabbard
I want to say yes.
joe rogan
I want to say no.
I think if you're a dumbass that buys a $50 million house in Malibu, like right on the...
I want to be all in the water.
Like, hey, bitch.
You know how much water's out there?
tulsi gabbard
There's a lot of water.
Well, we had, you know, the active volcano that we've had on the Big Island for so long, but the actual...
The flow that happened through neighborhoods when the floor of the volcanic shelf within the crater fell through, the lava went down and started flowing through all these lava tubes that were running beneath fully occupied neighborhoods.
People had bought land and built houses in those neighborhoods knowing it was, I think it was a Lava 3 zone, which is like, you're building on top of an active volcano's lava tubes.
You have to know that you're assuming that risk.
When that happened, there were, you know, lava spouts and little mini craters that were formed within so many of these different communities.
We were going around there.
I was with the head of the roads division for Hawaii County.
We would go and look.
And as soon as there was a crack in the pavement, we'd be like, okay, we've got to mark that one down on the map.
Because that is, you know, the next day you see the steam coming up as though it's a lava vent.
And then within the next day or two, you would have an active, like, 20, 30, 40 feet in the air lava spilling up.
Right in the middle of, like, a normal kind of suburbia-ish neighborhood.
And this happened in over 20 different locations within this particular area.
And it was mind-blowing to go there one day after the other after the other and see how quickly a beautiful little neighborhood turned into a complete bed of lava.
So this then begs the question, like, oh, is your home insured?
There was one insurance company in the entire world that would insure homes that were built in a Lava 3 zone.
joe rogan
Did they go under?
tulsi gabbard
Well, I don't think they went under because it's so freaking expensive.
Most people just didn't have it.
Most people couldn't afford it.
joe rogan
It's a gamble, right?
tulsi gabbard
It is a gamble.
joe rogan
They're taking a crazy gamble.
tulsi gabbard
It was amazing to see how so many residents there recognized, like, okay, yeah, we knew we were getting this land.
It was pretty cheap.
Built a beautiful house, knowing that this possibility could occur.
And frankly, it was amazing to see their respect for Mother Nature.
And knowing, like, we chose to live here.
Madame Pele is doing her thing, and we're gonna have to figure out something else.
joe rogan
So, what is going on right now in Maui?
tulsi gabbard
Can I take a quick bathroom break?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is a good one to talk about, right?
tulsi gabbard
It's a very important one, yeah.
joe rogan
We're back.
So, we were just about to talk about Maui.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
So, what is going on right now post fires?
tulsi gabbard
No one is rebuilding homes yet.
The remediation effort is still underway.
And the biggest challenge for the families who were directly impacted by that, who were left homeless, is the fact that they still don't have anywhere to go.
You know, they've been put up in Airbnbs or in hotel rooms for a period of time.
On Maui, the hotels are like, hey, we need to be able to start welcoming in tourists back into the island.
And so the governor is trying to work out a plan to be able to provide some form of semi-permanent housing for people.
If they were to try to go out and rent a house on the market, it is purely unaffordable.
And there are a number of families who are now faced with the tough decision of, do we just pick up and go and move our life out of Hawaii and to the mainland?
Which is heartbreaking, given how many of those families—I mean, they've been in that community in West Maui or in Lahaina for generations— What is happening with the people that had mortgages?
joe rogan
So if they had a mortgage and their home was burnt down and they haven't gotten money from the insurance company and they haven't been able to rebuild, do they still have to pay that mortgage while this is all going on?
tulsi gabbard
I haven't heard that raised as an issue.
I would hope that the mortgage company would recognize what's going on, but that's a good question.
I haven't heard it raised as an issue from either residents or as part of the conversation around housing for them.
joe rogan
Why has no one been able to rebuild?
tulsi gabbard
There has to be...
There are so many layers of toxins in the ground that have to be cleaned up and removed before people can go in and actually start to rebuild.
But to speak of just the inspection and the permitting process and so forth...
joe rogan
So the layers of toxins just from the fire?
tulsi gabbard
From the fire and you know you had like a gas station with underground fuel tanks that burned like completely to ash on the ground.
The toxins that came from all you know different construction and and everything else that exists in the environment.
joe rogan
So all that stuff burns.
It gets in the soil.
It gets rained on.
So the ground is contaminated.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
This is the reason why they can't rebuild?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, and they knew from the outset it was a known fact that it would take, I mean, if it only takes a year, that is an expedited timeline, is what I've been told.
joe rogan
How long has it been now?
tulsi gabbard
August will be one year.
August 8th.
unidentified
Whew.
joe rogan
The most insulting thing was the $700 one-time payment from the government.
Who said yes to that?
Who allowed that?
And at the same time, releasing this number where they accidentally had sent Ukraine $6 billion.
Remember that?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
They said, oh, well, we lost track of this $6 billion.
And so now that we've found it because of some accounting error, now we can go and send it to Ukraine.
joe rogan
And they were automatically assuming they were going to send that anyway.
tulsi gabbard
Of course.
joe rogan
But no consideration at all.
tulsi gabbard
You know, I remember specifically when the fires had just happened, the White House brought in the director of FEMA to talk to the White House press corps, and someone asked the question, what are you, FEMA, what are you actually doing for the people who've been impacted by this tragedy?
And the director stood there with a straight face and proudly said, well, we have provided a one-time payment of $700 to everyone who has been impacted by this fire or displaced by this fire.
And that was her big announcement that she was there to make.
One single one-time payment of $700.
joe rogan
So that means you have 700 servings of ramen.
tulsi gabbard
Basically.
Basically.
I mean, you can't even rent a bedroom in someone's house for $700.
joe rogan
It certainly can't for eight months.
tulsi gabbard
No.
joe rogan
That's what's crazy.
tulsi gabbard
No.
joe rogan
$700 is so crazy.
It's just such an insulting and ridiculous number.
And the fact that they haven't given more...
But yet they're flying people around on airplanes that come in illegally through the border?
How much does that cost?
What does that program cost?
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
What does that cost?
tulsi gabbard
Multi-billions of dollars, if I had to guess.
FEMA has other services.
It's a lot of bureaucracy.
It's a lot of paperwork.
And residents on Maui, they were being told, like, okay, well, hey, if you accept this kind of aid from FEMA, you are ceding some sense of your sovereignty or decision-making ability with regard to your land or your property.
And all of the red tape, essentially, that caused a people, a community...
Who are rightfully skeptical about government coming in and saying, okay, well, we're going to help you when that same government said, oh, yeah, hey, we may at that time, and the governor said this, and then he corrected himself later on, but he's like, oh, yeah, we're thinking about and talking about how we can turn this entire place, have the government take ownership of it and turn it into some kind of memorial or some kind of workforce housing.
Which obviously made people really freaking mad to say like, well, who the hell are you to come in here and say, you're just going to take our land?
You're just going to take it and do what you want with it?
So they're obviously very skeptical and rightfully so about, you know, the fine print.
What does it mean if I accept a few bucks here or there from the federal government?
What power am I ceding to you to determine my future, the future of my family and our home?
joe rogan
And unfortunately, the rest of the country has forgotten about it.
tulsi gabbard
By and large, yeah.
joe rogan
There's always a new thing in the news.
There's always a new thing to pay attention to.
There's always a new fear.
tulsi gabbard
One of the things that has just recently come out, first of all, the Maui Police Department, they did an audit of what went wrong, what did we do wrong, what should we have done better, and kudos to them for actually doing this.
And I think they came up with like 92 recommendations on things that needed to be fixed.
They shared that with municipalities all across the country as like, hey, here are the hard lessons that we learned.
You guys should take note and try to protect yourselves from having to go through what we went through.
Other agencies at the county level and at the state level have not been so honest or transparent about their shortcomings.
And the most egregious one recently that our local news in Hawaii exposed was the head of Maui's emergency response division.
He was off island that day.
He was at, of all places, a FEMA conference on Oahu when the fires happened.
And instead of doing what any compassionate and responsible person and leader would do, you'd immediately get on the first plane out.
You get a notification there this, you know, this fire is happening on Maui.
I got to be there with my people and I got to lead my teams to respond to this emergency.
It took him a few days to go back to Maui, first of all.
But the thing that was, and I don't know if you can find this, Jamie, but they released his text exchanges that he had with his assistant.
Who was telling him, he's like, what's going on with the fire?
LOL. And the assistant responding, saying, ha ha ha, this place is like a circus.
Their exchange was so, so...
Disturbing doesn't even put it lightly when you know there are people who are being burned to ash, burned alive in their community, and their text exchange is like, oh, ha ha ha, is the fire still going?
LOL, yup, now it's going in another place.
I couldn't believe it when I read it.
And this was the same guy.
Herman Andaya is his name.
He didn't show up and show his face publicly until like seven days after the fire.
And then he went and he did one press conference and then he quit and resigned.
But there has not yet, and I hope investigations are ongoing, there has not been any kind of accountability at the various failure points that existed in this response.
joe rogan
If the government wanted to take over that land, the best way to do it is to drag this out and make it so that people have no other choice.
They have nothing to do.
They can't do anything.
And they just tell stories about it.
We used to own that land.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
There's a Native Hawaiian leader, famous surfer, navigator for the Hokulea and traditional Hawaiian navigation, Archie Kalepa.
He has been one of the most stalwart leaders for the community during this whole period in time, organizing emergency response and food and shelter and community gatherings.
People come and play music at the end of the day throughout this whole crisis period and has been leading the charge.
He's very well respected in the community in holding that line and saying we are not giving up our land.
But as you said, it becomes a much more difficult argument to make when people you got to live.
You got to be able to make sure your kids have what they need to go back to school and all of it.
And how can you do that when you're in a constant state of transition with no real timeline where they're not coming and saying, OK, hey, you can go and start rebuilding on this date.
joe rogan
Right.
tulsi gabbard
So they're going to have to do some sort of— Well, to speak of the cost, I mean, like building a house from scratch.
joe rogan
Right.
Crazy.
Most people don't have that money.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
And then also, like, how long is this cleanup going to take?
And, like, when does it start?
And what do they have to do?
tulsi gabbard
I mean, I guess it involves massive excavation, right?
It is ongoing, but it is massive excavation, and it's— So it's ongoing.
It is ongoing.
joe rogan
Do they have an anticipated timeline?
tulsi gabbard
I heard from one guy, they were looking at, well, hopefully, maybe it might be September, it might be October, but, you know, it's one of those things that one of the guys who's out there actually doing this is just saying, well, you don't know what you're going to deal with until you're actually dealing with it, and it might take longer, it might not take as long, but it's one of those things that they're not figuring out as they go, but they are being confronted with things as they go.
joe rogan
Is this one of those issues where you wish that maybe you still were in Congress?
Because at least you could be talking about it.
tulsi gabbard
That was my hope.
And I talked with leaders in Congress and people who I still know there and just calling for oversight and accountability from the federal government because we saw many points of failure, everything from the immediate response to the whole water issue and the fact that there wasn't any water coming through people's hoses during that time.
joe rogan
Now, why was that?
tulsi gabbard
The history of water on Maui is complicated, and it's largely attributed to that, of the fact that the water is a privately owned utility and how that water is controlled.
There is limited use of water at different times, how it's controlled and where it goes.
And there was a state water management official apparently who had some say in this of saying, well, you know, I don't think that we should turn the water on for this period of time because we don't know exactly what's going to happen.
But my point is, all of these things need to be very clearly investigated because people's lives and property were absolutely destroyed because of this.
joe rogan
So was it because that water is a valuable commodity?
They didn't allow it to be used by the people that were experiencing the fire?
tulsi gabbard
There was some implication of, I don't know.
It was like, well, we want to make sure that the water is being distributed equitably, and so we don't want to give it to one group of people over another group of people.
It really didn't make any sense what the argument was, but it was like, hey, you missed that critical juncture in that window because you were trying to ruminate.
It was something to do with equity and some theoretical argument rather than this is a community in crisis.
There are fires burning in various different places.
We need to get water to people who need it.
joe rogan
There's also the thing about having above ground wires.
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
It is.
tulsi gabbard
At a place that experiences storms, but also on West Maui is traditionally a drier part of the island that also experiences wildfires, even small ones on a regular basis that if they're not immediately controlled, you end up with what happened.
joe rogan
This is so disheartening that it's not receiving more attention.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
Yeah.
You look at the things that we've talked about.
What are they actually focusing on?
And that's...
That's where the opportunity, and it is such a dire picture, you know, it's a time where we're surrounded by literally insane people who are making decisions that further their own interests and their desire to either hold on to power or grow their power at the cost of the well-being of the people and at the cost of our fundamental freedoms.
unidentified
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
And that's where this election, our using our voice, our defending our freedom of speech by speaking the truth and speaking freely, all of these things and our engagement with them as Americans, as citizens, It matters more than anything else.
Because if we continue to go down this track, we will continue to see our freedoms undermined until we wake up one day and this will no longer be the America that we know and that we love.
joe rogan
That's a scary thought.
tulsi gabbard
It is.
joe rogan
Until the last few years, I never would have thought that was the case.
Same.
I would be like, nah, we're going to be okay.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Now I'm not so sure.
unidentified
Yeah.
tulsi gabbard
Because, I mean, we've gone through, you know, the political powers switch from one side to the other and back again.
And, you know, you figure like, okay, well, I disagree with this person or this issue or whatever.
But...
Being grounded and having the confidence in the Constitution and these fundamental rights and freedoms is kind of like, okay, well, you know, we'll figure out the rest.
But all of that, for everything that we've talked about, censorship and control and big government overreach and all of the government surveillance, all of these different things point to the very real risk and domestic threat that we face.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's just so many factors that are simultaneously taking place.
There's surveillance, there's the invasion, which is kind of an invasion.
tulsi gabbard
The open borders.
joe rogan
You can call it whatever you want, but it's people coming here that aren't supposed to be here.
And I'm for immigration, just for them figuring out who's criminal.
tulsi gabbard
Well, legal.
And this is the thing.
I've got a friend of mine who's about to retire.
Special Forces Green Beret served over 30 years in uniform.
Great, great American who's dedicated his life to service.
He's about to retire.
His wife is from a European country.
And they want to invite her sister and her sister's family to come to the retirement ceremony.
They're residents of Italy.
They have been denied a tourist visa to come to America for two weeks to attend the Special Forces Warrant Officer's retirement.
How is that?
And these are like, hey, they got a family, they got young kids, they got school, they got jobs.
And they were denied saying, well, we don't think that you have...
We don't have confidence that you will come back to your life in Italy.
And yet, again, people are coming through the border every day, being picked up.
Border Patrol has become like this Uber drivers for people who are breaking our laws from the moment they step across the border into our country illegally.
And, okay, so then they go out in the country.
Nobody knows where they are, who they are.
Are they really going to show up for a court date in two years or three years?
And nothing is really truly being done about this.
joe rogan
Seven years.
Seven years between then and the court date.
Okay.
unidentified
What?
tulsi gabbard
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
joe rogan
It almost seems like it's all designed to erode our faith and to make this whole thing something that's way easier to control.
Because the way our system is set up right now, if you can express the freedom of speech, if you actually can do that, it makes it very difficult to really control a narrative.
tulsi gabbard
That's it right there.
That's it right there.
Control and power.
And they're terrified of a truly free society where we can have a truly free open marketplace of ideas.
They're terrified of people being able to, you know, and I saw this when I ran for president in 2020.
We're seeing it again in different ways in 2024 where they want to control what information you get about certain candidates, what information you're not allowed to see, who is being pushed forward and who is not, and undermining our basic responsibility as citizens, which is to cast an informed vote and engage in our democracy and undermining our basic responsibility as citizens, which is to cast an informed vote and engage in our democracy and actually They're terrified of us doing that and making what they believe is the wrong choice.
So they're trying to take away our right to do it so they can remain in power.
And in their minds, I fully, I know many of these people and they feel justified in what they're doing, that they are the righteous ones, that they are standing up for America and standing up for democracy, so much so that they are willing to destroy our democracy to save it in their minds, which is a dangerous, dangerous so much so that they are willing to destroy our democracy That we could see foreign dictators in different parts of the world and throughout history.
joe rogan
It really is.
And it's astonishing how few people are willing to accept that it still takes place today.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
They almost have this thought that those things have been sorted out and that, you know, that was the case in the past.
And even though history is filled with it and there's actually no instances of it not taking place.
Right.
But now, don't be silly.
Now we've got it.
I had Jan Werner on here from Rolling Stone.
Jan Werner.
He was trying to tell me that the government should regulate the internet.
I'm like, government?
The same people that lied about weapons of mass destruction, those people?
Exactly.
No, no, not those ones.
Everybody wants daddy.
tulsi gabbard
Right.
joe rogan
They want daddy to come along.
No one is gonna save you.
tulsi gabbard
No, exactly.
joe rogan
No one's gonna save you.
unidentified
That's it.
joe rogan
People in Maui know that.
They know that now.
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
joe rogan
And no one's gonna save you.
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
joe rogan
And we have to be aware of how fucking crooked this system is.
tulsi gabbard
Yes.
joe rogan
And I don't know how we're gonna get out of it.
I don't.
I don't.
You have the courage to talk about it, and so few people do.
It's a strange time to be alive.
It's wonderful in a lot of ways, it's amazing in a lot of ways, but it's also treacherous.
There's a lot going on right now.
It really makes you wonder.
There's so much fucking subterfuge and shenanigans.
And so much money being funneled around and moved around.
It's just like, whew!
tulsi gabbard
I think that's where there is, you know, there is a silver lining in what we have been through through COVID and through everything that's happened since.
I think more and more people are waking up.
what they're being told.
Is this actually true?
Looking for information and news from other sources than maybe they had been before.
And just what you said, no one's coming to save us.
I think that is the message I'm carrying.
I'm on the road constantly, and I'm talking to people, whoever will listen at events and on different media platforms.
It's what I focused on in my book, For Love of Country.
The truth about what is happening in our country, the experiences that I had in the Democratic Party that caused me to leave the party.
And understanding that in this situation, and there's a lot to be fixed across both parties and the government, but in my experience and in the situation we are in right now with the Biden-Harris administration, they cannot be allowed to remain in power.
We can agree or disagree on different issues and it's good and we should and we should have those conversations.
But when you look at the unprecedented abuse of power, That they are engaging in, undermining their rule of law, politicizing our government entities, targeting Americans, targeting Americans who happen to be their political opposition, whether it's Donald Trump or the mom who's protesting at a Board of Education meeting to have a say in what kind of education her child is getting.
This is happening across the country.
And if we, the American people, don't do something about this and stop them and hold them accountable, What happens in these elections?
If they're allowed to remain in power, they will tell us, hey, you gave us a mandate.
You said, hey, good job, thumbs up, keep at it, and we'll see everything that's happened just continue to escalate to a point where I have no doubt that our freedoms will be eroded to a point where it'll be virtually impossible to get them back.
And where do we go from there?
America no longer becomes the land of the free and the home of the brave.
It becomes the land of people who are controlled by the government and forced to comply or else.
And if you dare to have the courage to speak up and speak the truth or say, hey, look, guys, the emperor has no clothes on.
Boys are boys and girls are girls, and that's just how it is, then you will experience the retaliation or the consequences of that action.
joe rogan
Well said.
Thank you, Tulsi.
Show your book, For Love of Country.
It's out now.
Did you do the audio?
tulsi gabbard
I did.
I recorded the audio.
joe rogan
Excellent.
tulsi gabbard
There's a little line on the top of the cover there you might recognize.
joe rogan
Oh, it's me.
tulsi gabbard
I appreciate your words, your friendship, your support, and your being such an incredible stalwart voice of truth and providing a platform for real discussion.
Where people can come and listen to those who have different viewpoints, different backgrounds, different experiences, and maybe they walk away agreeing or disagreeing.
It doesn't really even matter.
But having this kind of platform is such a powerful thing for everyone to benefit from.
joe rogan
Crazy things that happen by accident.
tulsi gabbard
So I went and I was invited to speak at this Passover event a couple of days ago.
But the guy who picked me up at the airport, his name is Avi, works in New York.
Their family hosted me.
And he's like, oh, where are you going next?
I said, oh, I'm going to go to Austin.
I'm going to see Joe Rogan.
He's like, oh.
He's like, I'm kind of pissed off about how popular he's gotten, because I was one of the OGs from the very beginning.
unidentified
He's like, I know the roots of the Joe Rogan experience.
tulsi gabbard
Anyway, you got a lot of fans, but he was particularly owning the fact that...
He knew Joe Rogan before Joe Rogan was, you know, the Joe Rogan experience.
joe rogan
Isn't it funny that people get upset when things get popular and other people find out of something?
tulsi gabbard
It's so weird.
joe rogan
But people do that with bands all the time.
tulsi gabbard
Because it's like your thing.
joe rogan
They went mainstream.
Now everybody likes them.
It's like everybody likes the thing I like.
It sucks now.
tulsi gabbard
That's the beauty, though, of what you've done.
You've been you the whole time.
And there's no like, oh, Joe Rogan's gone mainstream and he's different or whatever.
It's like, you're you.
And I think that's what people are attracted to is just, you know, you are who you are.
joe rogan
I think that's what people are attracted to with you as well.
And I'm very happy you're out there.
And I'm very happy that you created this book.
I'm really happy that you did the audio of it.
tulsi gabbard
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because I don't really read it anymore.
tulsi gabbard
You know, before I recorded it, I do more audio books as well than I do...
joe rogan
I read every now and then, but most of the time I'm actually, like if I'm on a plane sometimes I read, but most of the time I'm sitting there listening to stuff in the sauna or listening to something when I'm driving.
For me it's a use of time.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
joe rogan
It's much more efficient.
tulsi gabbard
Exactly.
It was...
I poured my heart into writing this book, and I care very much about the issues that we're talking about, and I care very much about our country.
And so in some parts of the audiobook, it was emotional, talking about some of the experiences that I've had.
While I was deployed and really, truly conveying what's at stake and the responsibility.
And so I go through a lot of the problems.
It's important, obviously, to talk about the solutions and the call to action for every one of us as Americans.
I don't care what your party affiliation is.
That's not the point here.
I'm urging people to leave this Democrat Party behind because they are abusing their power and undermining our Constitution.
Just as our founding fathers did when they created these founding documents, they disagreed heavily on a lot of different things.
They had fierce arguments and debates, but they came together around the most fundamental principles of our country that are centered around freedom.
Our ability to live in peace and pursue prosperity, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Now is the time that we have to come together as Americans around those foundational principles and get our country back on track.
That is the most important task before us as Americans.
Otherwise, it'll be too late.
joe rogan
Hear, hear.
Thank you, Tulsi.
Thank you for being here.
I appreciate you.
tulsi gabbard
Great to see you.
joe rogan
Alright.
unidentified
Depressing.
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