David Choe and Joe Rogan explore humanity’s shifting role amid AI dominance, with Choe comparing cultural evolution to metamorphosis while Rogan cites McLuhan’s "human beings are the sex organs of the machine world"—warning of potential obsolescence. Choe’s psychedelic experiences, like ayahuasca-induced trauma release and The Cho Show art project, contrast with Rogan’s advocacy for controlled consciousness expansion via substances like mushrooms or marijuana. Both critique modern comedy’s loss of spontaneity and lament society’s suppression of joy, emphasizing emotional connection over materialism as AI reshapes creativity, law, and entertainment. Choe’s pivot from status-driven art to free, transformative work mirrors Rogan’s focus on unfiltered discussion platforms. [Automatically generated summary]
Yeah, so I'm, I, I, look, when people tell me how awesome Austin is, I don't know the rest of Texas, but, like, Austin is, like, the vibe yesterday, it's like the weather, like, everyone was out, like, having picnics.
Alright, well, I just have to tell you, because I've, once again, like, we don't talk very often, but when we do, and then, like, your voice is just on all the time because I got you playing.
You're a great audio portrait artist.
Like, the interviews you've done using, like, you've captured the essence, like, the way a painter captures, and it's, like, the best of that person, right?
Like, you've, of that celebrity or that scientist or whoever, so you're a great audio portrait artist.
Thank you.
Just that that move to like be like LA sucks and then lead the charge and like look my driver my driver like I saw on the map that I was like a mile away and I told him to like drop me off because I just wanted to walk a little bit like this and uh he's like what do you mean like how are you gonna get there I'm like I'm walking like Like, you're gonna walk to the studio?
I'm like, yeah, like, like, walk the earth, motherfucker, you know?
And walking, you know, going down South Congress, and, like, your presence is felt, like, you've, you've, like, kind of changed, like, the comedy club thing?
Oh my god, like, that's amazing to, to, like, try to get a, into a comedy club, like, you, it's gone full circle, like, you, like, you've gone, like, from, Trying to get the spot at the comedy club to now owning one and you're like, I'm gonna do it my way and like all the things I didn't like.
So that...
That courage to just cut your own path gives me courage.
And my instincts were, first of all, to get the fuck out of LA. I felt like it was just going to get worse.
I felt like the way the government is run there, they're just drinking the same poison that got them sick.
And they're not going to change.
And after all that defund the police shit and the chaos of shutting all the restaurants and bars and everything down from COVID for like a fucking year and a half, I was like, you people are incompetent and you're not going to ruin my life.
I'm going to go someplace where you're more free.
And this was the first place that we went in May of 2020. And my kids loved it and my wife loved it.
And I've done your podcast a few times now, so it's like...
I remember when it was live, and I would leave your studio, and as soon as I left, people would be like, yo, that was great!
I was like, oh shit, dude!
So I always knew you had impact, but...
To come on your show, the last time I came on, like two, three years ago, it's like standing on a soapbox with a microphone in front of the whole world, like...
In three years, like, not a day has gone by where someone doesn't say something nice or say, hey man, like, I was gonna kill myself and I heard that episode and it's like, you changed my life.
But in the way, I mean, Jamie, you could talk about it with, like, you do the show and then you chop it up into, like, clips, right?
There's people out there that chop it into TikToks and Reels.
There's one where I talk about the Hadza tribe, the hunter-gatherer tribe, that has 30 million views, and I don't know what that monetizes into for YouTube or whatever, but I think it's like 50, 60 grand, so it's like...
The words are the, like, you can, like, just, this is it.
Like, someone could get rich just, like, talking and doing this shit.
And so after doing that show, and I'm just telling, like, my journey to Africa and how I felt being with this hunter-gatherer tribe...
It, like, literally saved their lives.
Like, the money that came in, the amount of people that donated to the Hadza, the Maleka Foundation, the, you know, the foundation people are calling me saying, what's happening right now?
There's so, and, like, this is, like, clean water for them.
This is, like, you know, education, clothes, like, all these things.
And I'm like, wow, you talk about something on Joe Rogan, it could, like, save a culture, you know?
And there was so much...
Like, the influencers that went out there, the guy with the red headband that eats all the crazy shit went out there.
The liver king went out there.
Logan Paul, I've never met the guy, calls me like, bro, take me to Tanzania.
Like, so, there's, like, insane, like, and if you guys are doing that, like, please, however much money you're making from getting those views, like, all those views have, like, all those videos have, like, millions of views.
Please donate back to the Hadza, because, like, they need it.
But, yeah, I mean...
The Rasooli, Shawnee, the guys that I know out there, the tourism is great, so it's like a thriving thing just because I talked about it.
And like going off what you said, like I helped make a film.
I was the cameraman on this film called We Are Hadza.
If anyone out there wants, I just helped make it.
It's just like the best documentary.
It's like the first beginning to end baboon hunt and then skinning it, eating it.
Like you feel like you're living that lifestyle.
So I'm not trying to be like Harrison Ford in like Mosquito Coast, but like I think Austin is a good buffer.
for the family and then eventually I do want to fully go to kind of like Who am I kidding?
Not fully hunter-gatherer, but fully a culture where it's not that many people.
I know who all my neighbors are.
I'm living half city life and half there.
Things are starting to steer towards going back to Africa for me.
But if you're saying I'm a professional artist, at some point there has to be a conversation about business, monetization, making money.
And, you know, we could get into all the AI shit, which is crazy.
But...
You know, I go to Africa with the ego of like, I'm an important artist, you know, like, and I'm gonna like, so I, my backpack is mostly art supplies, right?
And I get there, and there's a cave that we're living in for like a few weeks.
And like, you know, if the weather's nice, we sit and sleep on top of the cave.
And if it's, you know, really raining or something, we sleep under the cave.
And in the daytime when, like, the real men are, like, hunting, I'm like, I'll give art lessons to the kids, you know?
And because the kids have no art training, they're just raw, you know?
They're just...
And it's just what they...
Here's a bow and arrow, and they're just drawing, like...
And the drawings are, like, amazing.
And I'm drawing...
And in my mind...
I'm like these are gonna be like museum pieces or like I'm gonna archive them when I get home and put out a book and like donate all the money back to them and So we spend the whole day drawing and I'm like these are like some of the best pieces of art I've ever because it was fun it was like in nature and It's with these guys that are not trained, you know.
And I'm looking at it and I'm like holding it like this, not to like, you know, smudge it or anything.
And I was like, like it just hit me so hard in that moment.
They're so present.
It's not about like, oh, I'm living in the moment and then I got to like go home and edit it and like, you know, it's just like we did it.
We love it.
And bye bye.
It's a piece of paper in the wind now.
And I was like, you know, and there was one that I drew like, you know, and I had a sketch and I was like spending a lot of time.
I was like, I'm going to try it too.
And I was like, more of this.
Like, more of this.
Like, I want this thing where you just live, and it is what it is, and less, like, anxiety, stress.
How am I going to make money off this?
And it's just, they're so happy.
And, look, I spent a lot of time with them, and I go back as much as I can.
So, yeah, to see them, like...
You know, all the YouTubers that went out there, and I'm like, oh, there's Shawnee and Nona and Gunkita, and I'm like, fuck, they're like many celebrities now.
I don't know, like, I feel like every time I go back to Africa, whether it's like Congo or Tanzania, which are like two completely different, you know, um...
I remember when I went to the Congo the first time, I was in 1918 and 1995. That was when you filmed that thing for Vice where you were looking for dinosaurs?
No, the first time I went is when I went to look for the dinosaur by myself and then Vice saw that I wrote an article about that and they sent me back like 10 years later when I was 20...
But I remember finding a missionary deep, deep, deep in the jungle.
And he's like, bro, you think you're the first one?
I was like, what do you mean?
He's like, you think you're the first, like, lost soul that's come here looking for dinosaurs?
And I'm like, I'm like, I'm not?
He's like, he's like, I've been here for 20 years, like, living with these people, like...
Every five years, a weirdo like you comes through.
And do you think you're really looking for the dinosaur?
And I'm like, yeah, I'm looking for a dinosaur.
He's like, no, you're looking for something else.
You're either running from something else or you're looking for some kind of meaning in your life that you can't find.
So this is, you've pushed yourself to this, you know?
And I'm like, fuck, dude.
You trying to get deep with me, bro?
So, yeah, I mean, I go back to Africa and like...
It's hard for me to talk about this stuff without sounding cringe or people...
I don't know.
It's like, let's look at life as a video game, right?
As someone who's heavily, heavily addicted to video games and born into a super, super Christian kind of background, right?
If you are in any kind of like strict organized religion growing up, Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, whatever, it's kind of like being born into a video game because it's like, it's very binary, right?
There's heaven and hell, especially if it's Christian.
And so you have to live a certain way.
You got to get a certain amount of points to have everlasting love, you know, peace, joy.
And then if you don't, Like, you're fucked.
And you're like, okay, for how long?
How much?
Like, forever.
And you're like, wait, that's a long time, you know?
And I'm like, fuck, man.
And so, I don't subscribe to any organized religion.
I consider myself a spiritual person, but...
Without making light or trying to be disrespectful, the things that I tried to figure out, like a video game, was sex, money, power.
As an artist, I had subscribed to the starving artist type.
It was like Top Ramen, holes in your clothes, homeless.
I was like, that is what a real artist is.
Until I met a successful artist.
I was like, oh shit, you can have a manager and an agent and an office and you can not starve.
And I remember at that point, I was in my early 20s.
I was like, man, people sure talk about money a lot.
It seems to be this thing that causes a lot of problems in marriages and business.
And I'm saying this as a guy in my 20s that's poor.
I'm like, what if I just, like, try to be as rich as possible for the next 10 years or 5 years?
Like, what if that's my singular focus?
And so I did it.
And, you know, it was a lot of work.
But, like, the video game of money is over for me now.
At every industry, gambling, the stock market, even people go, oh, that's like this Korean Forrest Gump, and he was like this homeless guy that got lucky with Facebook.
I'm like...
That was like a lot of work to make that happen, you know?
And I was already kind of wealthy when I made that deal, but people like to tell that story.
So I made millions of dollars gambling.
I made millions of dollars with my art.
I made millions of dollars with Facebook.
And it was a lot of hard work, but I'm like, it's kind of, if I wanted to, You tell me how cringe I sound and I'll just stop.
But I'm like, it's not going to be that hard for me to become a billionaire at a certain level, right?
Like I've amassed hundreds of millions.
I'm like, if that's my goal now, if that's my video game, and then I know billionaires.
I mean, Sean Parker and Mark being the most, but I know tons of like secret billionaires, right?
I was like, motherfucker, you know I don't need it.
Like, you know I'm not going to go buy cars and houses.
He's like, what do you want to do with that?
He's like, Dave, I don't know if you know how money works.
You don't just go up to someone and ask them for a billion.
I go, motherfucker, I just did.
And he's like, well, do you have a plan?
Are you going to show me charts and graphs?
I was like, no.
It's all going to be instinct.
I will take that one billion.
And he's like, dude, you got to come to me with, like, I'm not saying no, but you got to have a better, you know, you got to have, like, how are you going to, I go...
I promise you, I will spend it, like, the most irresponsible possible.
Like, it'll be, like, exactly...
Because most of these people that have billions are, like, geniuses, and they spend...
Everything is down to a fraction, and they just grind and crunch numbers in their brain, and that's not how I think.
I think very abstract, I think.
And I go, I'm going to do stuff that, on paper, makes absolutely no sense, and I promise you I will change the planet with that money.
Like, I'm going to do shit that...
And then he was like, he didn't say no, but he was thinking it over and he's like, dude, there's no way my money guys are going to do this.
And then I sat there and I thought about it because money is power.
And then, so that has, that game, that video game of money has no, no, it's not fun for me anymore because I've, so years ago, like 2009 was my last art show where I actually sold stuff for money and I didn't feel good.
It was like My gal or Steve Lazaridis is like Banksy's guy.
And he's like, Cho, you're on fire.
Street art's on fire right now.
What do you want to do?
I go, it's going to be in LA. It has to be in LA. It has to be on Rodeo Drive.
It has to be on the most expensive street in the world.
And I want every celebrity there.
And so...
It did.
It happened.
It was a show in Beverly Hills.
All the celebrities came.
All the fancy people came.
I sold all the art.
And the next day, I didn't feel any different.
And then at that point, the artist gets objectified to just, I got a Basquiat.
I got a Cho.
I got a Banksy.
And I'm like, the guy that's buying my art that can afford it, he doesn't care about the art.
He just wants to...
It's a dick contest, right?
He just wants to show off, like, hey, I got a Cho.
And I'm like...
I'm pretty sure that's not what the universe wants for me to just make expensive stuff.
So at that point, I told my manager and everyone I work with, I'm like, everything now is free.
Like, painting with kids, painting with guys just out of jail, painting with at-risk youth, murals, anything where it's free, that's what I'm about.
I'm not...
You know, or if I like someone, I'll just trade or give it to them, but I'm not selling shit anymore.
So that kind of like ended like, you know, and then I had finance guys and everything about wealth management is about how to preserve wealth and make more money and I go, Let's do like a Monte Carlo simulation and figure out when I'm going to die by my lifestyle of how I live.
And let's get it down so that I have zero by the time I'm done.
Like I want to...
And they're like...
So every business decision I've made since I've made that decision is I just lose money.
I just lose money.
And then the video game of sex, which I wasn't very good at, is age zero to 30. I'd been with...
Five six maybe seven girls like and they were all like long-term kind of relationships There was no like one-night stands and then at that point like 29 30 I was like I'm really not good at this like I don't got any game.
I'm not and Like the same way If you saw me in my 20s as a street urchin, street kid, and he's like, I'm going to be the richest artist in the world, you'd be like, you know what the odds of that happening are?
It's ridiculous.
In the same way, and not to sound vulgar or objectify women, but that's what I did at that age.
I was young and I was like...
I'm tired of the Asians are like sexless small dick you know the the math nerd like I want to fuck the most amount of women as possible and that was even more ridiculous than me saying I want to be the richest artist and then and then I just went on a tear for a decade right like I just it was awkward at first and then like a video game at the end a combination of like Like a comedian working out their material, right?
And with the oncoming social media and all the, you know, internet stuff, I could figure out...
On the dates I've been on, which material killed?
Like, what did I say to make what girl laugh?
And, you know?
And I would have all those, like, a crazy person, like, in my notes folders.
And I could say the perfect combination of words to make a girl laugh.
Or, like, so using everything at my disposal.
Anything.
Like, money.
Charm, jokes, power, I'll get you on this thing.
Just queuing in on what is it that you want and I can get you that.
I was sleeping with multiple women a day and I was like, you would never believe Okay, not you.
I would never believe what I was doing.
Like, I was every night, tens, tens, tens, like, Victoria's Secret models, A-list celebrities, just like, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
And, you know, I got to a point where I was like, I wasn't...
My friends and I debate, they're like, you were like a week away from sucking dick.
And I was like, it's probably more like two days away.
Because it just gets there, right?
I was just in rooms having threesomes, group sex, and I was like...
I'm an artist.
I should, you know.
And my parents were convinced I was.
Like, I was in a car going to an art show with my parents in Mexico City.
And my mom, you know, she's like completely invested in my career.
And she's like, hey, you know, Andy Warhol used to do like 10, 20 pushups.
And then his mom would give him like a snicker bar.
And I was like, that's an interesting fact, Mom, I didn't know that.
And he was gay.
And I was like, oh, okay, cool.
You know Leonardo da Vinci, when he used to go out, like, no one would know he's an artist.
He wouldn't have, like, a speck of paint on him.
And I was like, oh, I didn't know that, Mom.
And he was gay.
And I was like, where is this going?
And then my dad's in the front driving.
He's like, he's not gay!
I told you he's not gay!
And my mom's like...
You know we're Christian, but we know that you're an artist, and we know you haven't brought a woman home in like 10 years.
So, it's okay.
You could come out of the closet.
And I was like, I love being gay so much.
I almost wish I was.
When I play Dungeons& Dragons, or a role-playing game, or an RPG video game, or Anytime I act or do anything that's like online or like a game I always want to be a gay guy like I just love it I love that feeling I want to play gay guys if you know and but I just don't love dick I want to I want to love it, but I just Why do you want to?
I just like part of it is like I my shame makes me shameless and like I like it when it hurts kind of thing like I just...
I got close where there was a transsexual woman.
I think her name was...
Like, her penis was right here.
And I was like, it's right there.
I should just, like, at least lick it or touch it.
At least just to say I tried it.
And I could say I didn't like it or I did like it.
And then, you know, you meet people and everyone has their game.
Like, Hollywood people are like, I gotta get that Emmy or that Oscar or, you know?
And so, I, like, pick the game I want to play.
Money.
Pow.
And then it's like...
I sit here and the thing that I learned, the number one important lesson from gambling is get out while you're ahead.
I love how much money I have right now.
It's the perfect amount.
I love that I have no regrets.
I've had sex with so many different women that I don't need that anymore.
I could be a monk for the rest of my life if I want to.
So there's only one final And that's the spiritual quest, right?
And that's where, like, people say shit like, the answer is love, and it's like, it is, right?
Like, there will be shit, there's shit that we talked about before we start recording that we can't, and then there will be shit that we talk about later, and we live in this world now where it's like, It's a crazy world, right?
And the answer is love.
And everyone says it, and it's in movies, and it's in books, but what does that path look like?
And so I go towards where I feel that, and I feel that in Africa.
When I go to Africa, I feel that in my soul, to my bones, and...
You know, I look like this in Austin and no one judges me.
Like, you would think going to Africa, the places I go where there's no Asians that they would say shit, but they don't.
They just accept me, they call me brother, they take me in, they show me their lives, and they're like, you're just part of our tribe now.
And I'm like, it makes me want to cry, you know?
So, and the fact that, you know, I have this beautiful relationship with you and, you know, you let me talk about this stuff and then those words get to, you know, Like, I don't know Logan Paul.
That guy calls me up right after the show.
He's like, take me to Africa, bro.
Take me.
I'm like, okay.
You know, like, and it's just a tremendous thing.
And then, you know, we made this film and it's, you know, it's like the best documentary I've ever seen.
So if anyone, like, wants to see a trailer or it's We Are Hadza, The Malekka Foundation.
It's like, I'll send you a link if you want to watch it.
Like, it's amazing.
But I'm...
It's like, last time I came on here, I had made a TV show.
Like, I do everything backwards, right?
Like...
Like, the normal way to get a show on, and I definitely want to ask you about this, the normal way you get a show on TV is you pitch it, right?
You come up with an idea, but, like, things don't cost that much anymore.
I mean, I'm speaking from a rich guy, so I know what that sounds like, but compared to what it used to cost, like, you don't, if you have a nice camera and you got a good editing thing, like, Much cheaper.
Like, the movie that just won the Oscar, everything, everywhere, all at once is, like, my favorite movie.
It had, like, six guys doing the special effects.
And then you have, you know, Top Gun, not Top Gun, but, like, all these other movies that have, like, when you see the credits at the end, it's, like, thousands of, like, Korean names.
You're, like...
So you can do things relatively cheaply compared, right?
So I made this show on FX called The Cho Show.
And I made it exactly the way I want.
And, you know, like some, you know, whatever.
Something got cut.
There were some notes.
And that's where I get stuck a lot of times, right?
Because no one tells me what to do when I paint.
I can do whatever the fuck I want.
But when it comes to media...
There's a bigger audience.
People are more sensitive.
People can get triggered, this and that.
So a lot of decisions made in Hollywood are fear-based decisions.
I just helped produce, and I was the cameraman, so it's not my film, but I'm like...
I'm gonna have to talk to you about this because it's like I want people to see it because it's all the proceeds we're gonna donate back to the to the Hadza but it's like like Paco Raterta who's like the best you know he I met him he's in the Philippines he made the Cho Show he's the one that edited this thing and I don't...
Then they tear through it, and, like, I go in a cave, and it's white, right?
The brain is, like, white and gray, and I shine a flashlight because I hear, like— I hear that noise, and I turn the flashlight on, and I see, like— Ten dudes fighting each other to scoop as much brain and this white shit all over their face.
And then as they drop the skulls on the ground, there's a baby playing drums on the baboon skull heads.
And I'm like, this is the craziest shit I've ever seen in my life.
Well, I mean, so that's what I'm saying, the visuals, like when they throw the monkey on the fire, that's how they get the fur off, and he's like this, and it looks like the crucifix on fire, I'm like, and you see the skull, I'm like, it looks human, right?
Part of the thing is, this is the only documentary where I think, I've never seen it on YouTube, where we filmed the baboon hunt from beginning to end.
And it's like, monkeys running, fuck you!
What he's screaming sounds like, fuck you!
And then the dog gets his nutsack and rips it off.
And then you're running and you see the nutsack on the ground.
And I'm like, what is this?
And they're like, keep that.
That's nutritious.
That's like the prize.
Like the top hunter gets that.
I'm like, all right.
And then you're just running and running.
And then like they get him.
And then he's grabbing the arrow and the dogs are just ripping his stomach out.
I wasn't considered too manly, because I couldn't hang.
So I'm back with the women and children, and I'm teaching the kid how to play drums on baboon skulls.
There's maggots coming out of the nose, and I'm like...
Hey, there's, like, that kid shouldn't be playing.
There's maggots.
And then she goes, and she just eats them.
And I'm like, there's nutrition in that, too.
I'm like, holy fuck, you know?
And then there is a serial killer, a Japanese serial killer that wrote a book about which human, like, he's like, French people are buttery.
Like, did you?
You know what I'm talking about, Jamie?
There's like that dude, and speaking as a cannibal myself, like, I don't know, culturally, I don't know if you did this when your kids were born, like, there's cultures that eat the placenta, right?
I ate my wife's placenta and then, like, I don't know.
The jury's out whether it actually does anything, but we've been doing it as humans for, like, thousands of years.
So any of my friends whose wives get pregnant, I go, hey, if you guys are going to throw it out, I'll take it.
So I have a freezer full of human placenta.
And keeping this guy, I go, if my friend's wife is, like, Indian, you know, is it, like, have a different flavor than if it's a white person or if it's a Korean person or a black person?
He's like the only, like some white lady took an interest in him.
So this is straight up Crocodile Dundee.
Like he is like, he can like run up a tree and kill a squirrel with his, like rip his head off and eat it.
But he's the only one that went to law school.
So he speaks Swahili, Hadzabe, English, right?
So he can wear like a suit and tie and then still have like the Hadza headband.
And he's the only one that has ever, as far as I know, that was able to get all the proper paperwork to leave to come to the US. So he stayed at my house when he came and I got him a shrimp.
I took him to like every like insane restaurant.
He'd never been in a swimming pool.
He swam in my pool for like seven hours.
He was, like, trying to drink the chlorine.
I was like, dude, don't drink that.
I took him to Fogo de Chao, and he was like, leave the sword, you know?
They brought out the shrimp crocktail, and he was like, oh, you guys eat scorpion?
I'm like, bro, that's not scorpion.
It was, like, everything, everywhere I took him, he would eat it with his hands, like, at these, like, gourmet restaurants, and he's like...
And, like, grease is just going down his arm, and it was, like...
He had the best time, but he's like, I'm so glad I went to law school, so now I have the tools to go fight for my people.
Alright, you saw the Hadza drinking the brown water, right?
Yes.
That water has cow poop in it, and it's disgusting, right?
When I met Steve-O, his family traveled a lot when he was younger, and he said when he goes to other countries, they always tell you, don't drink the water in Mexico.
And he'd always do it.
And so he'd get crazy diarrhea, get sick.
But now he says he has the most insane gut biome, and he never gets sick now, which he seems like he should be dead, and he isn't.
And so the Hadza have a very similar thing with them.
They have an insane micro gut biome, like the most diverse ever.
So if I drink that shit, that brown water, I'd be dead.
Alright, so, okay, you're the perfect guy to, you know, you know I'm a, like you've offered to give me on it shit, but I just buy all of that stuff anyways.
Like, in the same way with the oxygenated pool, there's like, you live a life very similar to mine where sometimes we meet people and they go, Hey, man, if I had your money, this is what I would do, right?
They'd tell you what they would do, right?
So, at one point, I'm sitting there winning the video game of money, and I go, you came to my warehouse years ago, right?
I just got everything I wanted and I said, there's something that, you know, so as a rich guy, I should have the best everything because I want to live, you know.
I had the float tank.
I had the UV spa.
I had everything.
I had the ice bath, all the shit.
I had the best, most expensive weights.
The smoothie that I'm having every morning is like $1,000.
I don't know if it's $1,000, but it has placenta, human placenta.
Every single powder at Erewhon that costs like $100, the $300 honey, the Manuka honey, Siberian cedar, pine oil, like every single thing that someone says is good, it tastes like shit and I just down it.
And I have like the $600 trainer that shows up to my house.
And I realized like, it was kind of like...
I'm gonna live long and be healthy, but it felt lonely.
I'm paying a guy to be here.
The thing that I was missing in my life was accountability.
I want a life where I have no accountability.
I want to be like a kid.
I want to be Robin Hood or Peter Pan forever.
And so people were like, oh, money will keep you accountable.
If you're paying someone $600 an hour, you're definitely going to show up to that appointment.
And I don't want to give away my exact location but currently my This might be going further, the complete opposite side of the spectrum, but I go to one of the shittiest 24-hour fitnesses in LA. I mean, there's a guy popping zits and shaving his neck and wiping his ass in the sink.
There's always a homeless guy in the sauna doing push-ups.
It feels like a lot of homeless guys have the pass to this one, and they just go there to shower.
There's always someone about to...
Looking like they're about to give a handjob in the showers or in the sauna.
And once in a while I get recognized or whatever.
But I go there with my friends.
It's communal.
I don't know.
And I'm like, I don't know if this is it either.
So it's either running top speed to hunt food with the Hadza, the super, super rich guy program on this side.
The kind of like, you know, showering with homeless guys and getting handjobs at the 24-Hour Fitness, and I'm like, I want, you know, like, I want to, I have a family now.
I want to, like, have a healthy life where I live, but just, I haven't found...
The thing that speaks to me the most is the moving to Africa right now.
Maybe not Africa, Africa, but like...
Close by where I get to be in, like, a not populated area where I'm closer to nature.
And, I mean, like, once again, dude, only been here for, like, one night already, but Austin is just, I mean, it's just amazing.
Dude, I have a question for you that you're the perfect person to ask for this because people that don't know this about Joe Rogan used to be an actor.
So last time I came on here, I was like, or maybe in private, I've always told you, like, a little less with the UFC stuff and maybe, like, try to get into painting and you're like, I'm not interested in painting unless, you know, I don't do anything halfway.
Like if I start drawing and stuff, they're like, oh, he's going to be an artist.
So in the same way...
I killed my own dream because I was like, there's just nothing.
The movie in my head, I am Indiana Jones.
I'm the fucking Wolverine.
I'm Batman.
I'm all those things.
But I wouldn't have that role if I got it.
So I just killed the dream for myself in the same way...
I, you know, I grew up in a lot of different mixed neighborhoods.
And so my dad, who's a great athlete, he plays every sport, would take us to like the playground and there'd be all these black guys playing basketball.
And he, you know, he could sink it from anywhere in the court and he'd give us the ball and go, now your turn.
Keep in mind, I've never thrown a basketball, so it's like, the second I miss, ah, Mr. Miyagi, you know, it's like, it's not a safe place to make accidents and whatever.
Now at age 46, sometimes I go with my artsy friends early in the morning, like 5.30.
We all have kids now, so we go early, early in the morning before anyone's awake, and because the threat of being made fun of is gone, I'm like, I'm pretty good at it.
I'm like, I can fucking throw a spiral, like, I can catch a...
I'm like, oh, I'm...
Holy shit!
And then same thing, like when I work with people where they know that they're not being watched or whatever, I'm like, oh shit, like you're really good at drawing, you know?
Yeah, I was doing this show, Ugly Delicious, with him on Netflix, and Marielle, the producer of it, is like, do you want to be a food judge on, like, Top Chef?
And I was like, fuck yeah, like, I want to go eat good stuff, and it was this Jonathan Gold episode where he's the, you know, he's like the best food critic in LA that had passed away, so this was like...
Out of respect to him and Jon Favreau was there and he has his own cooking show with Roy Choi called The Chef Show on Netflix and I had heard that he had just gotten the Star Wars gig to do The Mandalorian and I have mixed feelings about how much that I'm a grown man and I still go to the comic book shop every Wednesday and all that stuff, but I love superhero stuff.
I love Batman, Spider-Man, Superman.
I love all that shit.
I love all the Star Wars stuff.
Even though most of it is all shitty now, I still love it.
So I told him, I don't know when I'm ever going to meet this guy again.
We went to Tacos in 1988, and as he got in the car and the valet pulls up, I go, I didn't want to be the fanboy guy, but I was like, hey, congratulations on getting that Star Wars gig.
And he's like, oh, yeah, thanks, Dave.
And the guy's giving him his keys and he's about to drive off.
And I go...
Yo, put some fucking street art in Star Wars.
And he's like, what?
And I was like, the alliance, the rebel alliance, the, you know, like, every time in history, the Great Wall, Russia, Vietnam, it doesn't matter.
Anytime there's a war anywhere in the world, there's art, rebellious art, right?
There's posters, there's graffiti of saying, like, fuck the system, fuck the man, down with the, you know, whatever.
I'm like...
In Star Wars, you have Nazi-type characters.
You have all this fighting, and there's no graffiti.
Yeah, and he goes, you're right, Dave, and you should do it.
And I had just had my kid and stuff, and he's like, I'm like, dude, I'm not trying to look for work right now.
I'm just saying someone should do that.
He goes, you're right, and it should be you.
I was like, fuck, man.
So I get this, you know, and it was fun for me.
And I went, and I was like, I went hardcore nerd.
I was like, okay, Jawas are like this tall, so the graffiti would be like this, and Luke Skywalker would not be known on this side.
So I'm like learning the Arabesh language, the Star Wars language, and I'm layering the graffiti so it would be accurate.
Like, I'm like going total nerd.
And he goes, alright.
And he tries to pay me.
And I go, dude, I haven't gotten a paycheck in like 10 years.
Like, I can't.
I don't want to get paid.
And the guy at Lucasfilm is like, you don't want to get paid?
Like, you're going to get paid a lot of money for this.
I go, I don't want to fill out taxes for this shit.
Like, I don't work.
Like, I'm jobless.
And he goes, you're the first person that's ever denied a check from Disney.
And I was like, no, I'm not.
And then I go...
Put me in, coach.
He's like, what do you mean?
I'm like, put me in...
Like, just so I could tell my friends and shit that I was in Star Wars.
And so, eight hours of makeup.
Eight hours of fucking makeup.
Look at that shit.
Like, fucking prosthetics, you know.
So, I have like...
I have one second of screen time.
That's like a camera panning, you know, and I had to do make and then, you know, they put like paint speckles, like they made it look like I was the guy that actually did the graffiti and you know.
Oh.
So this is the first time I'm on TV acting, like not as me.
So I go home.
I write a short story about the backstory of my character.
And I go, oh, it's too boring for me to scream in English.
I'm going to learn Huttese, Jabba the Huttese language.
So I'm out there.
I got five pages of dialogue.
We're at a gambling rink.
We're betting on Gamorrean guards fighting.
So it's like a fight scene.
And it's like, fuck him up!
Fuck him up, Chris!
Like all that.
And I'm saying it.
And everyone's like...
Dude, you're a fucking extra that's in here for one second.
And no one asked you to learn Jabba the Hutt's language.
Trying to get more airtime or whatever, but I did write a backstory of how I am a gambling addict.
This is how I ended up at a Gamorrean Guard gambling thing, and I give it to Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni, who are like the showrunners, and they're like, yeah, we'll get right on that, Dave.
So that's hilarious.
So I'm like, wow, I'm not like I went kind of all in like I wasn't, you know, so anyways, it was enough.
I'm like, that was great.
Then I get a call one day from Ali Wong and Steve Young.
At the same time, they're on this new show on Netflix called Beef from A24. And they say the same thing.
They go, Dave, have you ever thought about acting?
And I'm like, I'm like family, dude.
I'm like chilling, trying to figure out how to get to Africa.
I'm not trying to do this.
And I go, what's the part?
And they're like, well, it would be filming in LA, it'd be for like three months, and you'd be playing an angry Korean guy.
And I'm like, well, is that how you guys see me?
I'm pretty chill.
In my normal life, I'll tell you all this shit later, but I kicked my parents out of the mansion I bought them because I asked them a million times not to do certain things and they didn't listen to me.
I was like, I'm not making crazy requests.
It's just like I've learned what a boundary is and please don't cross it.
And they did.
This is my real life, right?
My real life is my brother, my family, when they fuck with me, I go, I ask you like not to do that and if you do that then I'm gonna have to remove like that's my normal life but in this TV show my fuck you like I'm like waving my gun out like and They're like the character's name is Isaac Cho and I'm like that's not that far of a stretch,
you know and So I go why don't you guys hire our actor like a real actor and they're like There's all these people coming in casting and they're like playing to be like Asian gangster tough guy, but you're just an asshole.
And I'm like, I'm like, should I, should I take an acting class?
Like, I don't want to like, you know, Steve Young's like Oscar nominated, like Ali Wong, like they're like, no, they've just come in and be yourself.
I'm like, fuck you guys.
So I come in and I thought they were offering me the part.
So I come in and it's an audition and I go, I'm too fucking old for this shit.
And, yeah, and then they asked me to be on a Survivor offshoot called Take It to the Edge or Beyond the Edge, and it's, like, all washed up celebrities.
I sound mean right now.
It was, like...
It was, like, a 70-year-old ex-supermodel and, like, retired NFL players.
And I called Steve-O. I was like, did they hit you up?
He's like, yeah, I said no.
And I was like, oh, I love Survivor.
This ain't it, but I should do this.
And they were like, please, just...
And it was during the pandemic.
It was like, you compete with other celebrities, and the thing with this is there's no losers.
Everyone wins, and we donate all the money to charity.
And I was like...
And I was like, it was the fattest I'd ever been.
I ate so much Postmates during the thing.
And my trainer or my manager was like, dude, if you're going to do this, I say don't do it.
But if you're going to do it, you're going to be with all these washed up people.
You have to win.
So then that's when I hired the hitting guy.
So I did actually get into pretty good shape.
And then, ultimately, at the end, I said no.
And then at a party, I met Jeff Probst, and I said, hey, dude, I almost did this show.
And he's like, oh, I'm actually not a part of that.
But why don't you do the actual Survivor?
And I was like, dude, I'm fucking super rich.
No one's gonna let me win, like, get all the way to the end.
He's like, we had Mike White.
We had another guy that got, like, to the end.
And I was like, all it would take is one of those people to recognize who I am, and then, like, they're gonna, like, vote me out immediately.
He's like, dude, we think you have, like, the right thing.
So I got, like...
I got into, like, the best shape, and, you know, it was obviously nice having Jeff bat for me, but, I mean, that interview process was insane.
They have, like...
Therapists talking.
They want to make sure that you're not gonna hurt someone or kill yourself on that island, right?
So it was like long and they got to the very end and then at the very end they're like can you do that thing that like you remember when Chris Rock paid like a million dollars to like delete him throwing the Shit, I'm probably fucking him up right now, but you remember he threw like one of the worst first What do you call it a pitch a pitch?
He threw one of the worst ones and then now you can't find it anywhere.
They go, you're gonna be on Survivor, but can you do that thing that the celebrities do and pay a million dollars to basically delete your entire imprint on the internet?
And I was like, what?
And they're like, there's so much of your life that is just not appropriate for...
And I was like...
And you know, I sat there and I was like...
It's enough.
Like, it's enough that I almost, like, I know myself, I'm like, I would have won.
Sneaky dude like half my life like I'm set up for this like I like you need to be there's other people like you out there That's why I'm always fascinated by someone whose things are definitely gonna win well Look I only have my track record it like I'm like I thought I would I could have tons of power I'm sure you have a ton of confidence and I'm sure you You believe that wholeheartedly that you're gonna win, but there's other David Cho's out there Maybe not you exactly the same kind of motherfucker I'm sure.
And if you got on a show with one of those guys, you'd be like, God damn it.
Well, one of the things that's like the biggest benefit of meditation for me these days is like...
It's that driving thing of it's not enough.
Like, okay, I did this.
Now I got to do this.
It's like, I'm enough.
So like, and I'm speaking my inner thoughts.
So I'm sorry how cringy it sounds.
But like, there's nothing I can't have, right?
So I drive and I go, look at that insane house.
I'm like, I could buy that.
Look at that woman.
I'm like, I could get her.
There's nothing physical or experience that I can't have.
I can have it.
That's why I keep telling you that my last battle is the spiritual one.
That's why I fly coach.
That's why I sit, like, that's why, like, I just do normal shit that, like, could I fly private everywhere?
Could I stay at the nicest hotels and nicest gyms and everything and just kind of be like, that's them and this is, you know, I waited an hour at Terry Black's.
I'm sure, like, I could have, like, called you and got to the front, you know?
Like, I just...
I'm just at peace with myself.
So the fact that I could have been on Survivor was enough for me.
And I didn't want to be away from my family for that long anyways.
You've got to learn some underhooks and overhooks.
The problem, that was an issue in the beginning days of the UFC when a lot of guys went no-gi.
When they went to the ground game, they were so limited because they were so accustomed to grabbing collars and grabbing pants legs and grabbing sleeves.
And he believed that the history of the people from Sumer, what they were trying to relay was that human beings were the product of accelerated evolution.
And that beings from a planet called Nibiru, that's on a 3,600 year elliptical course towards the Earth.
I've been told this is nonsense by people who are cosmologists.
Which is another thing that's nonsense, what I said the other day, with talking to Andrew Schultz, that the moon doesn't spin.
Because we only see one side of the moon.
We do only see one side of the moon, but it just spins perfectly with us.
He wrote these books called, I think it was The Twelfth Planet was one of them.
And it was all about these ancient Sumerians.
And one of the weirdest things about it was like, these people had these clay tablets that had like a detailed map of the solar system.
6,000 years ago, they carved it in clay.
And they also had these giant beings with like people with tails sitting on their lap.
And they had the double helix of the DNA. And he interpreted all this as this was some sort of an ancient recording, like where they were trying to record what had happened.
And when he was going through these ancient Sumerian texts, he believes that it was really all about these beings called the Anunnaki.
Those from heaven to earth came and that these beings came from this planet that is described as Nibiru and that they have manipulated human DNA forever.
So, in the same way, in the same way tonight, right, if you go home tonight and you do like a hardcore jerk-off session to porn, you could watch more porn in 24 hours I don't know how accurate this is, but it's pretty accurate, than all of your ancestors since the beginning of time, right?
It's to make people laugh and then you have these comedians going on stage Dressing in suits or dressing like just in a hoodie or I'm like you're a fucking clown dude dress ridiculous look like this But entertain me I see what you're saying, but I don't think so I think they should dress in any way that feels funny to them Like, I've gone on stage in suits many times.
What people interpret when you see someone who's dressed up really nice or is wearing a lot of jewelry or looks very flashy, they're trying to be cool.
As a fan of comedy and who's watched, like, because I have this access that everyone also has access to all these documentaries and comedies, and this isn't just isolated to comedy, it's to anything, right?
Like, everyone who I know who's a musician, like, when I heard One by Metallica...
There's no YouTube video that shows you how to do double face.
You're like, what the fuck is that?
You have to figure that out.
But now everyone who's spent a lifetime crafting whatever their art is, they're giving it away in a TikTok, right?
I don't watch porn anymore, but I got so jaded with porn.
I got jaded with music.
I get jaded with...
And then I end up going back to the classics of stuff that is nostalgic or that or whatever.
So as a student of someone who's like, man, fucking life sucks.
Let me laugh tonight.
And I watch these things, I go...
I could see, like, this is a hot take, no disrespect to Chris Rock, but, like, I didn't even know Marlon Wayans was a stand-up comedian, and his take on the whole Will Smith thing was fucking hilarious.
And Chris Rocks was like, I don't know, like, it just didn't do it.
I was like, I could see what he's doing, it didn't land for me, and everything I saw on the internet was like, he just bodied Will Smith, he fucking killed him, and I'm like, did he?
I don't know, man.
And so my feeling...
I know what I sound like, the bitter, jaded guy, like art sucks, comedy sucks, whatever.
And so I did Psychedelics recently, and like I said, I accused you of being an alien last time you were here.
And, like, the person that makes me laugh more than anybody is when I'm fucking on psychedelics and whatever that spirit is that's talking is always, like, has the jokes.
It has the jokes.
And the last time...
So, this is a reoccurring topic.
And once again, I gotta say, this is not, like...
This is just something I see in my vision quest, right?
Because everyone's like, oh, I'm going to have a spiritual experience.
And it is spiritual, but it's a long trip.
So it goes through like hell, heaven, jokes.
And he goes, I came down to earth, and I fucked your great-great-great-great-great-grandmother, and I don't have a dick.
Because we don't fuck with genitals, we fuck, we're mind fuckers.
We use our mind, that's how we have sex.
And so we're beyond that.
And he goes, look in the mirror, bitch.
And I go, what?
You ever wonder why Koreans have such big heads and your eyes are a little bit like this and your dicks are a little bit smaller because we didn't have any dicks.
Humans had dicks.
We melted and so you have little dicks.
And he's like, you never ever thought about why you're blue?
I'm like, what are you talking about?
He goes, you never wonder why you were born with a blue ass?
And I'm like, what are you talking about, dude?
Like, I'm like, I'm like on the floor tripping.
So, I don't know if you know this, a lot of Asians, and they say, they call it the Genghis Khan birth bark.
Dude, straight, I have a picture of my, and some have a small one like this, and some of them have, I'm sure you could find bluer ones, but then after like less than a year, it just disappears.
So it's called the Mongolian birthmark, and I'd forgot about it until the alien was talking to me.
Okay, one Mongolian spot is present on over 90% of Native Americans and people of African descent, over 80% of Asians, over 70% of Hispanics, and just under 10% of fair-skinned infants.
That humans, that what happened was these advanced beings came down and they manipulated our DNA and added their DNA. But by the way, I have to say this.
This is this guy, Zechariah Sitchin, and he's very controversial.
He's like a legit scholar.
Rock-solid credentials.
But...
He's also very controversial.
I think there's a whole website called SitchinIsWrong.com.
Like, I think one of the most taboo things to talk about today is, like, you could talk about fucking or drugs, you know, you could talk about anything, but when anyone goes, hey, where's your spirituality at?
Well, considering having a podcast, it's very different than someone just bringing it out of nowhere.
I am not an atheist.
I've never been an atheist.
I've never been someone who says, I know there is no God.
What I have been someone who has said that a lot of the stories, they're in a lot of the religions...
Clearly have the hand of man on them.
There's clearly some Description that implies things that are okay to do because of the cultural Values of people that lived three thousand four thousand years ago whenever they wrote this stuff Clearly it condones slavery can treats women as second-class citizens.
There's a lot in these words that That clearly have the hand of man.
But there's also some inherent deep wisdom and moral scaffolding that would make the world a better place in almost all of them.
There's something there that gives people structure and discipline and connects them in a community of like-minded people who believe the same thing.
I think there's a great value to that that's underappreciated by people who call themselves atheists.
I think there's also a great value in if you truly believe you're living your life and you're going to be a good person, you're going to go to heaven, you will have that energy through your life.
You will be carrying the belief and it will actually aid you in your life.
And that if you think they're just pointless, it's all just existential angst and it's all chaos.
Like, you live better if you believe that this is all for a better purpose and this is all a part of God's plan.
That might be true.
It might not be true.
But you live better if you think that way.
You can do that and still look at facts and reality, and you don't have to be ideologically captured by some writing that was written down thousands of years ago.
But you are better off if you believe that this is all for a greater good.
And that exists at the same time on Earth with some of the best people.
Enjoying some of the best times together.
While you are with your family and you are with your friends and people come over your house and you have dinner and you're laughing and having a good time, on some part of the world, someone's drinking out of a puddle.
In some part of the world, someone's in an apartment building that just got hit by a missile.
You know it's all happening simultaneously, but we only have the ability to understand what's happening to us and We we kind of think these things we know these things are out there because we watch TV and we watch the news But we don't believe it.
It's it's like it's not even a like there's people that are calling for like war in Ukraine Like you don't even know what you're saying Like you don't even know what that feeling is of be if you knew that would be the last thing you would ever want to happen and I fucking love you, man.
Like, when I make something, that's how I interpret prayer.
And what you talked about...
Is like this belief.
It's faith, right?
Yeah.
And part of why...
A lot of things I've done in my life, people have accused me of being suicidal, right?
They're like, why are you going into MS-13 territory?
Why are you going to the Congo?
Why are you going to Bosnia?
Why are you going to places that are in conflict?
And part of that is like, I like it when it hurts.
And it's just like, I'm attracted towards darkness, or I was.
And part of that is just, I don't believe.
Like, I watch the news, I watch something, and someone tells me...
I've been to every state in America, right?
Like, most people haven't...
Most Americans haven't done that.
And is there unrest?
Is there racism?
Is there...
Yes, there is, but...
When you try to say everything, like, try to make it binary and everything in, like, black or white, like...
I've had an amazing time in Texas so far, right?
And all these places that are considered racist, yeah, I've experienced that also.
But even when I go to Atlanta at a black mall, I went to the wrong mall, and everyone's yelling shit to me.
If I could find one kid and be like, hey, why are you calling me that shit?
And then I bond with him.
In that moment, I'm just with him.
I've used love.
And he didn't run away from me.
Like him and all of his friends were doing this.
They were like, and I was like, this is like 20 years ago.
And I'm like, I'm like, oh, fuck, dude.
And they were yelling.
They were literally yelling, you came to the wrong mall, bro.
Wrong, you know?
And I was like, oh, shit.
And I felt threatened.
I felt like, oh, shit, like something's about to happen.
And this is 1999 or something, you know?
And so...
You know, because of the religious abuse that I was raised in, and it's crazy because most of the mental health institutions or rehabs I've been into, you've heard about sexual abuse, physical abuse.
You've heard of those abuses.
I had never heard the word sexual abuse or religious abuse.
And I'm like, it's disproportionately a lot of Orthodox Catholics, Orthodox Jews, hardcore Muslims, hardcore Christians, hardcore Mormons.
Like, it's just...
That, like, organized, like, you have to be like this or else you're bad creates so much shame.
And I'm like, fuck God, fuck religion, fuck...
But that's, like, now I've gone the other side towards hate, and I'm like, I'm a loving person.
Like, I was telling you, like...
It's not an accident that you're the biggest podcast in the world.
You're such a sweet, loving...
You don't get involved with all this other bullshit podcast drama.
You're just loving.
You're love.
You're lovable.
You are love.
And so I always go...
I tend to be a hater.
I'm always pushed to talk shit or be bitter and fuck everything sucks.
And I need love to drag me back.
And so part of that is...
This is part of 12-step stuff like higher power and whatever.
We like having a team, right?
I'm a Christian.
Our symbol is this.
I have a star.
Ours has 20 arms and swords.
Everyone wants to have a logo and a t-shirt.
My church is this.
Ours are round.
Ours are gothic.
That's good.
It's good to have that.
I was so jaded and I was so bitter and the guy that was helping me through all my darkness was like, kind of don't care.
I kind of don't care if you believe in God or not.
It's just like a fake it till you make it.
He's like, I just want you to believe and have the faith.
Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant.
I was like, what?
He's like, it's just weird talking to you because No one believed you'd be the wealthiest artist in the world, except for you.
That's insane amount of faith that got you there.
No one thought you would do this in your life.
No one thought, and you were the only one, maybe your mom, but because you believed it, it happened.
So it doesn't matter if 10th planet is ludicrous or the science, like even science is a religion.
So I subscribe to what you said of like, that's, you know, sorry to sound like a douche again, but that's where I find my spirituality is like, Community.
It's what they call...
I just learned this.
Third space, right?
First space and second space is like...
Your house is like first space.
I think second space is like work where you work and then third space is what People need to like be social like whether that's a cafe church the gym and Third space is the internet now, right?
That's just where everyone congregates and like I don't I do all these limitations on my phone and technology So it keeps me off social media keeps me off all these things.
I have a child safe like That's because of my addictive nature.
But that's where people are, so that's where I have to meet them.
And I'm still searching.
I'm not perfect, obviously, but I try to do...
Anytime something happens and I feel myself going to the dark side, fuck this motherfucker, whatever.
If you watch Oldboy or any Korean show on Netflix, it's all about, you tripped me when I was five and now I've spent my entire life figuring it out, you know, right?
Right.
And so to bring it back to the acting thing...
I get this role, right?
I play this asshole, like, kind of lovable asshole.
I just added that.
And then I show up to the set, and again, I write a short story back page thing.
I'm doing improv.
I have all these, and they're like, Dave.
Can you just do the lines so that other people can go home?
Like, no one's asking you to write another, like...
And I'm like, I don't know how to not do that, right?
Marvel had a better buy-in, like the awkward teenager that gets the super, you know, like not that many people are born billionaires that become bad, you know?
The idea that we buy into the fact that this fucking college kid invented this stuff that shoots from his wrist in a never-ending supply and allows him to grab buildings and swing.
He's shooting these thick ropes out of his wrist and I'm like, bro, If I would buy that all that shit, you know like and just- But where's it coming from?
That movie, the beginning scene of that movie where Tracy Lourdes leads that guy into the middle of this disco and all these vampires are dancing and he doesn't know they're vampires.
And then Blade shows up and kills all the vampires.
It's fucking incredible, man.
It's such a good scene.
To this day, even if I don't watch the whole movie, I'll throw this scene on.
Because when the guy realizes that there's blood coming out of the ceiling, and then he looks up, and he sees the faucet, and it just starts spraying, and the way it's shot is almost like stop action, because whoever the director was, they did an amazing job of setting it up where it's like the chaos of the moment.
So, yeah, I went as someone who, look, I don't know how you perceive me, but I perceive myself over the last, all the spiritual work, all the work I've been doing, all the insane fucking rehabs and mental institutions.
I'm a fucking chill dude.
That's how I feel.
But I didn't, that wasn't my role for this character.
I had to go back to old 19. Yeah.
And so now I'm at with my family at a deli getting a Reuben and, you know, my wife's like, that was a very aggressive Reuben order.
You know, like, I'm like, over here, like, and I kind of don't like how I feel.
And I'm like, you know, I'm talking to Ali, I'm talking to Steve, I'm like, I don't know how you guys do this and not lose your mind.
When you're at a good state of mind, you're in a good state of mind and something comes along, like, how flexible is your mentality?
Does it immediately go into this new groove?
Like, if you decide you're gonna be in character and you're gonna play this asshole, does that become you?
And how much of who we are or who we assume we are is just a program that we're running so that the weirdness of life doesn't give us unbearable anxiety.
So we're running a program and that program is most of your past thoughts and experiences and the things you've learned and done and then interface that with the rest of the world.
But if you decide, because you're playing in a role, that you're a fucking asshole, like, I wonder how much of what we are is choices where, for you it was just acting, because you wanted to be an asshole for a movie, but for other people, like, how much of who you are is because of the way people behave around you?
And how will I... How vulnerable are we to other people's behavior and thinking and just like, let's go back to the Hadza where you were talking about these people all eating those brains.
Well, that's why we freak out at things like The Walking Dead.
Because we know that if things go south, people will revert to their worst instincts quickly when there's no internet and there's no way to share information and communicate that someone did this and this happened.
And if there's no, like, you could take a film of someone murdering someone and then they could catch that guy from the news.
I mean, that happens now, right?
Right.
If you're in Walking Dead times, there's no power, right?
So no one knows what the fuck is going on, and the only way people organize, they get together and they yell.
Some guy yells at a group of people, and then they do barbaric shit.
And this is what the nature of human beings has been for many thousands of years.
That's why it's so easy for us to snap back into us.
And so that's actually the first time Sean Parker reached out to me, and he's like, bro...
I want to get a painting from you, but I'm being sued for a trillion dollars right now from every single...
And you know, whatever.
They got out of that.
But I'm saying the genie was out of the box, Pandora's box, whatever.
And so that was back then, right?
And now we live in an age where most kids don't pay.
If I wanted to listen to music, I had to take a risk and buy something at Tower Records, get a job, and then shit, man, the single was good and the rest of that.
risk.
But now because we have access to all the porn, all the documentaries, all the comedy, all the music, it's like in that way everyone's wealthy, right?
Anybody can have access to anything.
anything or find a way to steal it or have it with very low risk of getting caught right right and so people don't understand we have what's out ai for the consumers right but some of the people we know like this shit is bonkers dude And I talked to Jamie about it.
Like, you will never fucking be able to believe...
Like, I could come home and be like, AI sucked my dick.
AI... I want to listen to Carpenters, but I want Ice-T to sing it.
AI... My dad was, like, really shitty to me.
Put him up a hologram.
Have him say all the apologies I wish he said, but he never said.
If I was still trying to sell art, I'd be fucking out of a job.
Like, AI paints way better than I do.
And so, what did Metallica have to do?
Tour, right?
ACDC, Stones, like 90 years old, still fucking touring.
And so, it's like what we were seeing again.
That's here now?
You could sign papers and shit to try to make that go away?
That's a fucking insane monster that's here now.
And of course we would love it if it was...
Best case scenario, and it was here to aid humanity and do all that, but we've seen enough Terminators.
Like, the things...
It's a human that made that, right?
So, it's gonna probably be really racist.
It's probably gonna be super sexist.
It's probably gonna be, like, psychopathic.
It's probably gonna...
And so, I go, I could go to fear, I could go to hate, or I could go to acceptance, adapting, and our religion of love.
And so...
Whatever that, whatever, like that's a gift.
If you're like working at a job and you're like, wow, AI is a self-driving car now.
I'm out of my truck driving job or I've learned my whole life how to like edit sound and now that's done.
Like all that, it's almost like freeing you to be the whatever...
Is coming next, and so whatever your version of touring is, right?
Which is the third space again, it's human connection.
Like, you can't make, if you're, forget Metallica, if you're like a new band, most people aren't buying CDs, tapes, records, so you have to sell merch, you have to go out, you have to perform, you have to meet people, you have to have connection.
So whatever that version of that is for you, as a human, No more, like, you're gonna have to move away from technology and more to human connection.
That's my belief on it, because it's fucking scary as shit, and I could choose to live in fear and be scared, or, like, people are losing their livelihoods that they spent their life on, like...
If something's available, the problem is what people like Andrew Yang were worried about was this mass disruption of our economy where automated things and things done through AI remove most jobs.
And so we have this abundance of wealth that's available to things like the war in Ukraine and some other stuff.
We need to consider something like a universal basic income.
And it's not saying that just for people to never work, you don't have to work, we'll just give you money.
That's not what it is.
It's like you have to figure out a way to give people enough money to survive if everything goes away because everything might go away.
That's where it's sketchy.
And what's really sketchy is What we might be doing is making a new life form.
And I've said this before, but I'll say it again.
I think we're an electronic caterpillar that's going to become a butterfly.
I think we're not going to be people anymore.
And I think there's going to be a transitionary period where people are cyborgs and they integrate with technology and it becomes mandatory because everybody does it, just like everybody has a smartphone.
And then it's going to get to a point in time where they're going to be able to figure out how to either replicate consciousness or transport consciousness.
Like this is the Ray Kurzweil stuff.
Ray Kurzweil believes that you're going to be able to download whatever consciousness is into some new form of, you know, whatever it is, quantum computing or something.
I think it makes a better version of it, and that makes a better version of that, and I think it happens really quickly, and I think it basically becomes God.
I think it basically becomes a creative force of the universe.
If something just becomes infinitely more capable of manipulating its environment and change, like a human being, what we have done, the most devastating thing we've ever done by far is create atomic bombs, right?
We've created a device that have dropped upon a city.
It vaporizes everything.
It's the most fucking insane thing people have ever done.
If we could do that, what could something that is as far evolved past us as we are from lower primates?
What if there's some new version of humans that's like a cyborg that integrates with technology, like integrates with some insane computer bank, That has the ability to manipulate everything, manipulate gravity, create portals, travel through space instantaneously to grasp ideas that are beyond our comprehension right now.
If you keep going a thousand years, it's not like we're going to figure everything out and just be stuck.
No, they're gonna, each invention, each technological innovation will compound upon the other ones.
And we're going to get to some place that's impossible for us to imagine today.
When we were kids like there was a there was a commercial that I just saw somebody put up on Twitter.
It was hilarious.
It was a device that people had back in the day where it was like velcro on your phone and you would slap this thing that's like a headset and you would put it on so that you could talk on your home phone while you like doing the dishes and shit and I was like they thought that was the shit like it looks so dumb.
But that's what I'm saying like My dad is old, but sometimes I work with older people, and say you're 90 years old, right?
So your life is candlelight, no electricity.
If you're almost 100 years old, that was your reality, right?
You lived in a time, pre-internet, pre-cars, horse and buggy, candlelight, and if you're still alive today, there's a fucking world now where there's Postmates, Uber, fucking everything, like...
Self-driving cars, like, this world looks fucking insane to those people, right?
It's all about disease, and it's about the early days of the 20th century and how horrific the conditions were in cities, and how people lived in just filth.
It's so sad, man.
And to hear about these children that were forced into labor at like eight years old on coal mines, it's fucking horrendous.
It's the conditions that people had to live in and that everyone lived in back then.
It's just so disturbing.
It's so disturbing because you realize that like these people were just poor and they were just stuffed into these areas and everybody lived like this and they were just in each other's filth and oh.
There's a thing about things that people do, and this is like the concern about AI art, and I know a lot of people have concerns about AI art, and I get where they're coming from, particularly with taking jobs away from illustrators, and it's going to be a problem, if it's not already a problem.
In the world of pool cues, there's computer-made pool cues, where they're made on this lathe and it doesn't ever fuck up.
And those pool cues, it's just about design and just beautiful execution.
But in the world of handmade pool cues, there's some motherfuckers that are cutting.
There's this guy named...
Well, my buddy John Showman's one of the best examples.
He makes pool cues where they are cutting these points into this wood and they have all these layers of wood and it's a big block and they spin it on a lathe until it becomes the perfect diameter and they make sure the wood has a good harmonic sound to it.
They like donk it on the concrete to get a sound.
My friend Eric Crisp, he takes every shaft and he dinks, he listens to the sound that it makes when it bounces off the cement.
He wants to know they have the right harmony and that the harmony of the woods go together.
I honestly think- So then the value will be in the documentation of it.
Go to North Demon Cues.
There's this guy in China that makes these fucking beautiful pool cues and he documents a lot of the construction of it on some of these tiny little things that he's inlaying in there with silver and gold.
Copper and he's setting it all.
Look at this fucking gorgeous work, man.
This guy's doing this.
I mean, there's photos of his lab where he puts all this stuff together, but his cues are fucking gorgeous.
The guy who hand makes knives or jackets or whatever.
The ones that are the best will always have a...
But if you're out there right now and you're like, fuck, I gotta...
If this is moving towards cyborg god level and it's not evil and it's not trying to kill us and it does make...
The world a better place where it's like 3D printing houses for everyone and figuring out how to grow its own food and you don't actually need to make that much money because it's like providing for you then you're gonna have to figure out how to like be a person and live with and like you know have a Jamie or have friends and you know more human experiences instead of just living online all the time.
My legitimate concern is we're gonna be amongst the last of the people.
That's my legitimate concern.
My legitimate concern is the idea that we would never be here is so outside the realm of possibility that we don't even think about it.
But I think if you think about all the other planets that don't have any life, and the idea that this one life is going to prevail, why?
Just because it's us and we're awesome?
Like, I don't believe that.
And whether it's by nuclear disaster.
Whether it's war, nuclear war, whether it's some horrific natural disaster, whatever it is, it easily could happen.
And the idea that it wouldn't.
But this thing that we create, if we create this thing, and this thing figures out the possibilities of these things happening, and also figures out asteroids that are coming that we aren't aware of because we don't have the capability, but it does, so it figures out a better way to detect asteroids and then a better way to deflect them, and then can protect the Earth.
And make sure that at least that aspect of the natural disaster, you know, problem chart is gonna be solved, right?
Okay, now we know we have an iron shield like, you know, like Jerusalem has.
Like, we have an iron shield over the earth and no asteroids ever gonna fuck us up.
So now we gotta deal with super volcanoes.
Maybe AI can do that.
Maybe AI can say, you know what, if we just drill in from under the ocean in this direction, we can alleviate some of the pressure by having the lava go into the ocean.
It'll stop this idea of having a fucking caldera super volcano that wipes out everything on the continent.
Because those happen all the time too.
Those happen every, you know, whatever, a million years or so.
One of them might be that we embrace psychedelics and we change culture and human beings start behaving in a way that's more consistent with what we would like to see from an advanced civilization.
I didn't have to—you know, he's like, let's do it.
So he touched my face, and I closed my eyes, and I was like, this guy— I had a, like, you could say this bullshit, I had a deeper conversation doing that than if we actually exchanged words.
So we touched our face for a long time, and then when he started talking to me, and, look, like, I... I want to have fun.
Like, show me how to have fun.
Like, it's just life just grinds you down.
And it's all about, you know, people say that the journey from your head to the heart is the longest journey you'll take in your life.
Because everything is, like, people apply way too much logic, right?
They're like, how come, what the fuck's that?
Like, the stats, it doesn't match up, it doesn't make it.
I'm like...
Feeling!
We're so far from feeling, so I just wanted...
I was like, I have you on, Rick.
I want to feel you.
He touched my face, I touched his face, and then we just talked in gibberish for like an hour.
And like I... You could say we're silly goofing off, which that's part of it, but it's like in the times where words have failed me, like I can never like fully...
I always feel that.
I can sometimes get closer when I paint or do something like where I express my art, but like talking is...
Has limited me in times.
And so for me to talk to him in like hut tees or tongs or some weird shit that just came out of me and just came, I mean, that guy's the master.
And I just felt like so connected to him in that moment.
And I was like, I was like, what else is there to say?
So in the same way a weightlifting dude in the 50s would not recognize a roided out modern super buff guy, we're not going to recognize what humans are going to do.
We're probably going to fly without going anywhere.
That's what's going to be really weird.
I think human beings are going to be able to do things that if we stop and think about it right now, seems ridiculous.
I think we're going to be able to make contact with other life forms.
Here it goes.
Man becomes, as it were, the sex organs of the machine world, as the bee of the plant world, enabling it to fecundate and evolve ever new forms.
The machine world reciprocates man's love by expediting his wishes and desires, namely in providing him with wealth.
It's from Understanding Media.
1964. McLuhan was a brilliant guy.
But that quote, human beings are the machine world's sex organs.
It's such a nutty thing to think.
Man, it's in nature.
There's so many different forms of life where one form of life takes over another form of life and uses it to birth a new thing, like aquatic worms that convince a grasshopper to jump into a pool and drown so that it can be born.
Well, look, I also view myself that way, but you are not the same, you know, like, people can see someone and see them physically, but, like, when I see you and I say you're beautiful, like, I see your soul, which someone could be like, that's some hippy-dippy shit, but...
I feel energies.
You could use your words.
I'm not an intellect scholar or whatever.
So you could destroy me in a verbal thing or someone smarter.
But I'm always like, where are you coming from?
What's your soul telling me?
So you're not the same person that you were 10 years ago, 5 minutes ago.
So I feel like...
I don't want to call it a parasite, but something...
You're in touch with something that's created this newest form of Joe that I'm meeting today that's not the same guy I met 15 years ago.
And then I think there's a lot of people that go through life without any perturbance of normal consciousness that are missing out on the possibilities of looking at yourself in a way that you can't do without a psychedelic.
Or I've never been able to do it.
Maybe you can do it with yoga or some forms of meditation.
I don't want to say you can't do it.
But I will say I've never done it.
I've never experienced the revelations that I've had about life through any other form other than maybe...
I mean, there's love and childbirth and there's some pretty profound moments that seem very psychedelic in life.
When you see a baby being born into the world and the love that you have is like you're on a drug.
It's so bizarre.
It's so bizarrely psychedelic.
But there's a bunch of those experiences that transcend us in the regular world.
For some people, it's a near-death experience.
For some people, it's coming back from something where they realize, oh my god, I almost lost everything, and now I have a newfound love and appreciation for the world.
But I think psychedelics do that without the harm.
I've done it, but because you've done those things and I've done them, now we have a shared language when we meet where it's almost, to me, it might not be for you, kind of telepathic.
And it's like, I've almost died multiple times.
I have children.
I've had all those amazing, and you're right, those create a euphoric, drug-like, and psychedelics surpasses that by, like, for me.
It's a different thing because it's not in this material realm.
It's this thing of whatever that dimension of thought and beings and consciousness is.
I don't know what that is, but it doesn't exist here, right?
So you can only take the information that you get from that and bring it back to here.
I think that's where a lot of people lose some of it.
Like, it's hard to take that experience and, like, how do you apply some of that to your life without, like, recognizing that the way you're living currently is not optimal.
And I said this to B.J. when he was on the podcast.
If you just look at the elite ones...
He was so good.
He was so good.
And when he was really fit, like when he was doing his strength and conditioning with the Marinovichs, like during the Sean Shirk fight and the Diego Sanchez fight, bro, BJ was a motherfucker.
I guess it comes down to value system of what, like, if you're still having a great time, but I'm talking about not just fighters, but anyone who's operating at a high, high wire act level, whether that's comedy, music, fighting, it's like, no one's the goat forever, right?
And you're talking about probably the new dominant life form on Earth, and that's probably how life gets designed in the cosmos.
It probably recognizes at a certain point in time the biological limitations of evolution in regards to these multi-celled organisms.
But if evolution can convince these multi-celled organisms to create something synthetic that's not dependent on blood or bone and maybe can live off solar energy or live off water, who knows?
But if it can do that, if it can figure out that, then the game's over.
Well, look, besides the very, very powerful one puff of BJ's weed that I smoked, my drugs, I'm 46 now.
So the last 11 years, I've done mushrooms eight times.
I did ayahuasca three times all in one week.
That was the first time.
And then very recently, once again, the comedian is back.
God, alien, whatever you want to call him.
And I was summoned by the guardians of the plant, Ayaboga, from Gabon in Africa.
I'd never done it.
I was like...
The last time I did ayahuasca, which was 35, the drug told me, the medicine told me, you're done.
We've given you enough blueprint, enough instructions for you to do for the rest of your life.
You don't need to abuse us because you like to abuse things.
And so I stayed off that.
And then my friend called me.
He's like, these guys that just are psychics that go around the world administering these ayabogas ceremonies, it's the entire plant grinded up.
And I was not, I was not ready.
So I'm in a mental hospital because I just finished filming Beef.
I'm trying to like go back to, like you said, I was very affected by emotions.
I'm trying to get back to me, Dave, like peaceful, loving Dave.
And this guy's calling me from Mexico City saying I've been summoned by the Guardians of the Point.
Sounds like a movie.
And I did the most powerful psych.
I mean, I was high for...
Four days where I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat.
It was way, way past what ayahuasca was.
And we have...
All humans have an operating system.
If we're like fleshy computers, right?
We're born and then you're taught what you're taught and then you kind of...
That's who I am and that's kind of stuck who you are for the rest of your life.
And this thing just started making so many jokes at me.
It's like, you have a living trust?
You have a will?
All the things that normal, wealthy people do or whatever...
It was just laughing at me.
He's like, you have storage units full of what?
And so I just...
In that psychedelic state, in that spiritual state, I was like...
I have so many...
I'm a hoarder because I'm my mom.
I collect a lot of shit.
I have comics.
I have rare painting.
I have a lot of shit where...
I'm never gonna sell it and like the people like when I die like this is anyone who has a lot of shit They're probably not gonna know like I have a lot of stuff that's worth a lot to me because of the sentimental value and then things that are just actually worth a lot of money and the thing was like Why don't you just give it away to the people who want it while you're alive?
And I was like, oh fuck And kind of like teasing me.
And this is like seven months ago.
So I've given away like 90% of my personal possessions.
And like there's some kid right now wearing, like I don't know why I still have my prom suit that I lost my virginity in like 1992. Congratulations.
Yeah, thank you.
So he has that.
But in my mind, my ego goes, when I die and there's a Dave Cho museum, maybe there'll be like a thing of like all my crazy clothes I wore.
And I'm like, I'm going to give this to someone.
unidentified
Can you imagine someone going to a museum of your life?
And so I had a very transformative, I'm not going to do a good job if I try to explain to you what happened, but I know that most people will never do that level of psychedelic, but I know a lot of shamans, they don't even do ayahuasca or whatever because they're so in touch with the nature and stuff, so I'm going to save a lot of people money right now.
In all my fucked upness, in all the rehabs, this is a common thing at like a super expensive rehab, is there's a thing called TRE, trauma release exercise.
And I did this in Arizona with this guy Taruno.
And from what he tells me, humans and domesticated dogs are the only animals on the planet that after they experience any kind of trauma, carry it in their body for the rest of their lives.
So you have a cheetah chasing like a gazelle and like getting this close like scratching its butt like Like, if that was a human, you're like, bro, I almost got killed by a fucking, you know?
But then you see the gazelle, like, a minute later, go sip some water in a lake, and the butt's doing a little...
Like, it's shaking that insanity out.
Like, oh.
And then it's like it never happened again.
But if we're...
Whatever.
This is what's taught to me.
And to me, in my situation, it was true.
If you've had, like...
Any kind of trauma, you just carry that.
It creates stress, anxiety, addiction, all these things.
And so a very common thing, and I'm giving this secret away, is you go to an expensive rehab, and they give you a tennis racket or a baseball bat, and then you hit a pillow or a dummy.
And you get that out.
You do this TRE, trauma release exercise, and you're like...
If you're a fighter or a boxer, you get to get it out in other ways, but...
Most, I would say most people have never been in a fist fight or like bash someone's head with a baseball bat or, you know.
So to just get the motion, the feeling of hitting a dummy, I'm like, and these places are expensive.
So me as an artist, I go, why not make a mannequin that looks exactly like my abuser?
Or I take it one step further.
I'm like, can I just hit a person like that's wearing pads?
And they're like, Dave, this is like a business.
Like there's lawsuits and liabilities and stuff.
I go, oh, well, you could do that because, or you can't do that because you're a professional, but I'm an artist, so I have artistic license.
So a few years ago, this is before you left LA, you know, this was the worst business decision for me because it cost millions of dollars, and this is what a normal art show is now like, right?
Like, a line waiting, Banksy, whoever, Damien Hirst, and then everyone comes in, takes a selfie, they don't give a shit about the art, and then they just post, like, I was there, right?
Well, there's a part of me that's like, well, I want to get more likes and more whatever, but...
So, in a way, it ended up being the best decision that I... Business decision I've ever made, because I had a show in an office building where I rented out this entire office building, and each room, I had a...
I'm trying to basically steal everything that I learned in all these rehabs and recontextualize it in an artistic way.
Like most people have never screamed their lungs out, right?
And there's movies where you go scream at the ocean.
I had one where you walk in a room.
This is just like, I'll give you like two of them.
You walk in a room and there's a punk band where the lead singer just OD'd as soon as you walk in.
And then they grab you and they go, you need to finish the song.
I'm not a fucking, like, I'm not a legit business.
And then we took it on the road.
I was like, hey, go to the park across the street.
So the guy in the living sculpture goes across the street, and I had a guy with a bat, and I'm like, anyone who has some shit they want to get off their chest, like, a lady's hitting this guy with the bat going, give me my child support!
But, you know, and this is four years ago I did this.
And I'm like...
Like, the show, like, I just explained two things that happened at the show, and there was, like, hundreds of rooms.
So this thing cost me millions of dollars, and it was so impactful for me.
Forget, like, you know...
The difference between, like, oh, I have a million people that went through my show and took a selfie to, like, I got to connect with people.
I got to share.
And so, look, I mean, you told me this on the last time I saw you, which is like, Dave, you should start a Patreon or do some shit.
And I was like, nah, I'm like, what I've learned about myself, about accountability, is in the last 10 years, I've given my art away for free, and people don't appreciate free.
There has to be some skin in the game, right?
Like when I give away like a thousand dollar prints for free, they go immediately like, it must not be good, right?
But the second I charge money, they're like, oh, so like you tell me where I should go with this because I just started a YouTube channel like very recently because I'm like, I'm like...
So this is the, the first thing was the Cho Show where they're like, it wasn't, it was like I could only get like 100 people through a day because it's such a intense experience for each person.
And that was fulfilling for me.
But if I'm trying to meet people where they're at in the third space, and that's online, it's like, how can I, how can I, how can I teach people everything that I've learned?
Because It's such a weird thing.
It's such a weird feeling for me to go to a place that costs $100,000 a month.
And I'm like, what did I really learn there?
They just taught me how to feel again.
They redid my operating system.
And I'm like, this...
And then with my kids now and any kid now, you go to school to learn 2 plus 2 or all the shit that the AI is going to do anyways.
And they don't teach you how to...
Get in touch with your emotions or express yourself in all those very simple things.
So we kind of grow up robots.
These unfeeling robots like college, get married, have a kid.
And I feel like I want to maybe share those things.
Like, I would love to never podcast again.
I love talking to you, but, like, there's a part of me that feels even hoarderish when I learn something that can help someone and I keep it to myself.
Like, I've learned a lot of shit.
I mean, when a kid asked me today, like, how do I make it in the art business?
I'm like, that I don't know because anything I made it...
As an illustrator, as a graffiti artist, none of that stuff's relevant anymore.
But the stuff that has to do with fun, feeling again...
I mean...
Dude, sorry if I told this story again, but there's an art barn at most rehabs because most of these guys are strung up, they are CEOs, whatever.
So the one that I went to was like 100 grand a month, so there's a lot of multi-millionaires, billionaires there.
And there's an art barn.
And I'm like, fuck yeah, that's where I'm going to escape.
And they're like, not for you.
I'm like, what?
I can't go in there?
And they're like, no, that's how you get high, so you're going to go do something else.
And I'm like, fuck.
But I would always sneak in and try to like whatever.
So there's a dude in there and I'm not gonna say who he is but he's like probably one of the most powerful people on the planet.
He could buy like a thousand or a billion of these rehabs and like just...
And so the assignment is to draw your favorite food, something from your childhood using these acrylic paints.
But on the next level is the glitter paints, right?
And I see this guy holding his hand and I go by the art bar and I'm looking in the window like jealous.
I want to be in there.
And I go, one of the most richest, powerful men in the planet is asking permission right now if he can use the glitter paint.
And I'm like...
And I go, that's it.
Because my kids don't ask for permission, right?
My kid will go into my closet and put on every single piece of clothes and come back and I'm like...
I'm going to do that.
When's the last time I did that?
Eight, seven years old?
And I go and I put on all my underwear.
And then I roll down the stairs and I go, permission granted.