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Oct. 28, 2021 - The Joe Rogan Experience

02:48:04

Joe Rogan Experience #1727 - Rob Kearney

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joe rogan

02:41:06

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jamie vernon

03:03

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b-real

00:01

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		The Joe Rogan Experience She's obsessed It's kind of interesting to watch because he never used to play golf.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		To be fair, I have a pretty terrible golf swing, though.
		I don't have much of a backswing.
		Yeah, I hit the ground most.
		I've done that top golf place, but I just whacked the ground.
		It's not good.
		I'm scared of golf.
		When I see Jamie full-on, completely obsessed six months in, I'm like, that's what I thought.
		That's what happens to people.
		I don't want that shit.
		I don't have any time.
		And it's deceivingly expensive.
		Is it?
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, like every time you go out, it's, you know, depending on the course you play, it's anywhere between like 80 and 150 bucks every time you go play.
		And if you suck like I do, you're losing, you know, a dozen golf balls every time you play as well.
		And a lot of people gamble as well.
		True.
		So if you suck and gamble and then you drink.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		Well, the thing that freaks me out is the cost of time.
		Yeah, because it's, I mean, four hours at least.
		Yeah, at least.
		Jamie, what do you do?
		Like, what's a normal day?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		If you suck, I found out.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		That's why it takes so long.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's your longest day?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		The longest is over, it's five and a half hours, I think.
		And that's just the round.
		That doesn't include the, you know, half an hour to hour warm-up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, see, I don't warm up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I use the first, like, six holes as a warm-up.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I've started, I kind of like, it's a waste of time if you can't warm up.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		But I've also played as fast as an hour and 20 minutes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How does one warm up for golf?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It's like a driving range.
		It depends on what you need to do, but you almost want to have to putt.
		You need to get a couple putts in, because that's completely different than driving and hitting hard.
		And that's half of your shots are going to be putting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		More than half for me.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Most people fuck up.
		You need a couple chips, and then you gotta get your body warm.
		Literally, the pros go warm up for an hour and a half to two to three hours, swinging, doing lots of stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That makes sense athletically, because if you're going to train jiu-jitsu or something like that, you have to warm up.
		Do you warm up before you lift?
		Oh, yeah.
		By the way, you're looking extra swole, son.
		Thanks, man.
		I know.
		I was talking to my friends.
		They're like, oh, you look huge.
		I'm like, no, I'm actually less fat.
		That's what it is.
		Oh, everything pops out more.
		You recovered from surgery, huh?
		What did you have done?
		Dude, I've had a shit year.
		Yeah?
		So, just over a year ago, I ruptured my tricep on my left arm.
		Yikes.
		Was attempting the Log Press World Record.
		What is the world record?
		So, the show was to attempt the world record.
		I failed at 485 pounds, which would have been a new American record.
		That's when my tricep decided to, you know, crap out.
		So, what did it do?
		Like, separate from the bone?
		Oh, no.
		Like, my tendon exploded.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, typically, like when a tendon tears, it's kind of like a piece of paper, throw a couple of stitches in it, and then, you know, anchor it into the bone.
		The doctor, first thing he said when I woke up was, so, when I opened up your arm, I literally had to take a step back and rethink everything I was going to do, because it was that much worse.
		But didn't he have an MRI to go by?
		Yeah, but like, so the MRI, it showed that it was torn, but he didn't know to like what extent.
		And when he got in there, he realized that literally, he said it looked like a firecracker had gone off in my tendon.
		So it took 14 sutures to put my tendon back together into something he could even attach to my elbow.
		And then another four anchors into my elbow that he had to drill in.
		And what was the recovery like?
		I mean, I still can't straighten my arm out all the way.
		Oh, really?
		And I got this really cute dimple now.
unidentified		Oh, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's gnarly.
		Yeah.
		Nasty scar.
		Are you going to put a tattoo on it and make it like a snake or something?
		That's what I'm thinking, yeah.
		I mean, I feel like a snake is too cliche.
		Maybe a fuse.
		That could be it.
		For your forearm.
		A bomb-ass forearm.
		My husband goes, you should make it a sperm.
		I was like, oh, we're not.
unidentified		With his name attached to it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like, we can just not do that.
		There's like no need.
		How many people have fucking sperm tattooed on their body?
		That might be like the least tattooed thing ever.
		It might be.
		I mean, I'm gay and I don't even want a sperm tattooed on my body.
		It's probably a girl, like sad girls.
		The ones that definitely have daddy issues.
		Oh yeah.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		You know the Sublime Son?
		Those are sperm.
		Maybe a lot of people have sperm on their body and they might not even know it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why does Sublime Sun have sperm?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I listened to the artist to describe it.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It's like sperm attacking an egg kind of is what the idea is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so it's not a sun at all.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Correctly, yeah.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		That's a mushroom in the middle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, but a skull.
		There's a lot going on.
		That's a very busy picture.
		There is.
		That's very busy.
		Look, it's got Satan in there.
		I never looked at the fucking Sublime thing.
		There's a pocket knife in there.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		That's a fish skeleton.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Last fun story, the singer bought it for $150 and it's become the most recognizable band merch thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The Rolling Stones is the most recognizable.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I know, over time overall, but they sold more merch than Nirvana last year.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Like, they were number one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		Damn.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		At least for 2020. But they have a new lead singer now, right?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		That's different.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It's almost like a cover band.
unidentified		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So is it a Sublime cover band with Sublime as the band?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How does that work?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's confusing.
unidentified		But, like, ACDC did that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They had an original lead singer, and then they swapped out.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It has to do with the rights of the band and some other things.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Because before that even happened, there was a cover band literally touring and made more money than the band Sublime had ever made touring, just as a cover band.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		So I think they sort of realized the business was there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How does that make you feel?
		Well, we have a thing for romantic stories where, like, someone dies doing heroin.
		That's, for whatever reason, that's a romantic one.
		Yeah.
		You know?
		I can see that.
		Yeah, right?
		Like, bands that, like...
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		He was one of them, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, think about how many...
		Fucking genius band people.
		Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Hendrix.
		Well, Kurt Cobain's suicide, but heroin probably had a part in that.
		Unless you believe the rumors that Courtney Cobain had him killed.
		Or Courtney Love.
		There was a whole documentary on that.
		Yeah, I don't know if I believe it.
		I don't know if I believe it either.
		I watched the documentary.
		Still not sold.
		I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole.
		I'm like, you guys are leaping to a lot of conclusions.
		But it was one of those documentaries, too, where they had reenactments by actors.
		Oh, the dramatization.
		Not a fan of those.
		No.
		It takes you out of the fantasy of it being a documentary in the first place.
		Especially when you're talking about a dead guy.
		Yeah.
		How do you know what happened there?
		It kind of kills it.
		No pun intended.
		Aha!
		So the thing explodes.
		And when it does explode, what does it look like on your arm?
		Does it pull up?
		So yeah, there was some recoiling going on.
		And literally, like he said, there was just like tendon fragments strewn about in my arms.
unidentified		Fragments?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Literally like a bomb.
		Yeah.
		Is that just because of the weight of the log?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, when you're trying to press 485 pounds overhead and your body says, fuck no, it just goes.
		And what do you weigh, about 240?
		280. 280. Yeah.
		So that's...
		That's 200 pounds over my body weight.
		Yeah.
		That's a lot of weight.
		Yeah.
		So the rehab is going well for that.
		And then like...
		Is this you doing it?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is this when it blows out?
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So this is when I actually broke the record.
		So I had already had the American record at this point.
		And then got the chance.
		So this was like all COVID times.
		So we did like virtual record breakers.
		Why is the judge such an attention whore?
		He was in Lithuania for this.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Kind of looks like a white supremacist there, though.
		Yeah, where's it going?
		Sieg Heiland.
		So yeah, that was 475. So much weight.
		Now, when they do the logs, like, did they put weight inside the log?
		Oh, and the ends of the logs.
		Yeah, yeah.
		So the log itself weighs, like, I think that weighed like 160 pounds or so.
unidentified		And then we had to add 25s and stuff to the end of it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		To get it to the contest.
		There's something very primal about lifting a fucking log, too, right?
		I mean, that's the sport of strongman, right?
		Like, we lift stones and logs and, like, carry shit on our back.
		Like, that's just what the sport is.
		Yeah.
		And so the elbow just...
		Totally shit the bed.
		And how long did it take before you could lift again?
		So I was like back in the gym within like two weeks doing lower body stuff.
		But the biggest, the hardest part was like getting range of motion back, like trying to flex my elbow again.
		Because when they did the surgery, my arm was bent at 90 degrees.
		So that was a pretty comfortable position, but getting it to straighten or getting it to bend all the way was horrible.
		Do they anticipate you'll ever get full range of motion?
		It's been a year, so here's the weird thing.
		Nobody can figure this out.
		If I'm just here to try to raise my arm, that's as much as I get.
		But if I'm pressing, like if I'm bench pressing or overhead pressing, I can get to full extension.
		Press this cup.
		I think it might be too light.
		Can you pretend?
		This is where I get hurt.
		Oh, this is where it blows out?
		Yeah, you'll see that in the left arm.
		It's the same fucking Hitler guy.
		Yeah, same dude.
		And there it goes.
		Oh, Jesus Christ.
		Oh, shit.
		And, like, you know, I'm a certified athletic trainer.
		Like, I have a master's degree in sports medicine.
		So, like, I legit knew right away what had happened.
		And my husband comes over to me.
		He's like, what's wrong?
		I was like, I just tore my tricep.
		He's like, no, you didn't.
		I was like, no, I totally did.
		But you didn't think it was as bad as it was?
		I mean, I knew it was torn, but, like, I didn't...
		Yeah, I didn't think it was to that level.
		Now, what kind of therapy do you do for something like that?
		Once they reattach it, what's the rehabilitation like?
		So, I mean, I did a lot of everything.
		A lot of manual therapy because, like, I produce a lot of scar tissue.
		Like even now, like my olecranon, like the elbow bone, doesn't feel like my right one.
		So when you say you produce...
		Just my body naturally produces a lot of scar tissue.
		So that was something we battled actually because I was producing too much scar tissue too early in the rehab process that was actually hindering The range of motion gains that I was supposed to be getting.
		So, a lot of like, Graston cupping.
		I did like dry needling and acupuncture.
		And one of the first times I went, the therapist couldn't get the needle through the scar tissue because it was too thick.
		And the way I describe it to people is, even with me feeling the needles go in, it felt like pushing a needle through rubber.
		That's how it felt for me, too.
		I felt the stickiness of it.
		Do you think that's just because you train so much, so your body's just so used to recovering quickly?
		I think so, yeah.
		Must be.
		Have you talked to other guys that are strong men?
		Do they have similar situations with scar tissue?
		Yeah, a lot of us have the scar tissue stuff that goes on.
		I actually bent a few of the acupuncture needles when I were trying to do them.
		Like she pulled him out and was like, it was curved.
		I was like, oh, at least it didn't break off.
		It's really interesting how the human body adapts to whatever activity you're doing.
	Like a good friend of mine is a doctor and he worked on David Goggins.
	And Goggins had to come in because Goggins, they pulled these giant syringes filled with Fluid out of his knee.
	His knee was destroyed.
	But he's still running like 100 miles on it, right?
	Of course.
	And so the doctor had to trim some of his meniscus.
	And as he's trimming the meniscus, he said it bent the fucking blade of the scalpel.
	He goes, usually when I cut meniscus, he goes, I'm not telling...
unidentified		It's like butter.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It just goes right through.
		He goes, this shit bent the fucking blade of the scalpel.
		I mean...
		He goes, I've never even experienced meniscus like this in all my years of practicing medicine.
		You have to make Dave Huggins more badass.
		You add that to the story.
		It's 100% true.
		I'm fascinated by the fact that people adapt.
		The human body is so adaptable, so malleable.
		It figures out what requirements of it are, and then it just pushes.
		Did you ever see what Eddie Izzard did?
		No.
		He ran around the entire circumference of the UK, and I think he did it in a month.
		Was it like a month?
		It was something like a month.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I think it was like, well, the first time he did it, he's done it a couple times, 27 in 27 days, and it was like way more than that, and I'll check.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So he wasn't in shape at all.
		I mean, he just didn't run.
		He didn't do anything.
		He said, I'm just going to do this.
		And along the way, his body starts adapting.
		So they have this documentary.
		They follow him with a crew.
		And he's destroyed.
		I mean, his feet, they show his foot.
		He had one day he had to take off because he literally had to have a rest day because the skin on his feet was peeled off.
		It was all red, raw meat, and they were putting gauze on it and tending to the wounds.
		But that fucking savage ran a marathon a day every single day to do this when he wasn't in shape.
		I can't even fathom that.
		But not in shape.
		Yeah, that's crazy.
		So 20 days in, or whatever days in, all of a sudden, he's talking and laughing and having fun.
		His body's like, oh, this crazy motherfucker wants to run every day.
unidentified		I guess this is normal.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so he figured out, or his body figured out how to adapt and change.
		And I gotta think, with someone like you, Just lifting gigantic shit all the time like everything must be weird in you like your tendons are probably weird You know it's like if someone like went over like you like if they had like a class on Physiology and they had to like examine the human body and you were dead and they would go well They would be like this is an unusual example.
		Let's take a look at this motherfucker Like everything like your joints and you I bet your bones are probably crazy super dense.
		Yeah Have you ever had them, like, tested?
		No, I've never had any of that stuff.
		How do they do that?
		I mean, I think there is literally a bone density scan that you can do.
		There must be something, right?
		You should do that.
		That'd be fun.
		Because, like, we were talking about this, that you're not large for that strongman thing.
		No, I'm the smallest guy at this level.
		Which is funny, because you're 280 pounds.
		Yeah, I know.
		That's a lot of weight.
		But, like, I wonder how much of it is, like, your skeleton and how much of it is, like, the density of the tissue and, like, how much adaptation actually takes place.
		I mean, yeah.
		And I've also been doing this for 12 years now.
		You know, I did my first strongman competition when I was 17. Wow.
		You know, now turning 30 here in a couple weeks.
		Like, you know, so I've been doing this for a long time.
		So just...
		That, like, you know, literal time under tension over the years definitely has to have an effect.
		That's a young age to do something like that.
		I would imagine that, like, strong men stuff, like, you know, they talk about, like, old man strength.
		Yeah.
		Like, as you get older, I would imagine that would be a better time.
		Yeah.
		I mean, you know, for me, it was just I kind of got in with a CrossFit gym.
		Honestly, that's how I got into strong men.
		And...
		They kind of noticed that, you know, he's kind of a chubby, awkward kid that's not terribly athletic, so let's just put him on a barbell and see how much he can lift.
		Luckily, it worked out pretty well for me.
		But, I mean, to be fair, like, I still sucked at strongman when I started, too.
		Like, I did my first competition on about four days' notice.
		Had never lift a single strongman implement in my life.
		Got my ass kicked, but, like, loved it because it was so weird and just so different from anything I've ever done.
		Yeah, the one that weirds me out the most is when they throw the barrels.
		Oh, yeah.
		I remember I watched one where the guy got hit.
		He threw the barrel.
		He wasn't paying attention.
		He came back and hit him.
		Is that dude alive still?
		He is.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Luckily, it was an empty keg.
		It was only a pony cake.
		It was like a half cake.
		What the fuck ever.
		How much does that weigh?
		I think it's about like 15 to 20 pounds.
		20 pounds.
		Still dropping from 30 feet on your fucking head.
		That's not good.
		There was actually a video that, you know, all these gym fail pages and stuff like that.
		There was one, we're doing sandbag tosses now, so it's these small sandbags.
		And this girl threw one up in the air and she has her arm raised and she's celebrating and the bed comes down around her head like a necklace and just clotheslines her to the floor.
		Luckily she was okay but it was really funny to watch.
		But I hear that and I see a video like that I just think blown out discs and years of physical therapy and never being the same again and oh I'm fine but she's not fine.
		Par for the course.
		Yeah.
		It's a crazy sport.
		Are you back to 100% now with that left arm?
		No.
		I would say my left arm is probably 75-80%.
		I'm closing in on a 400-pound overhead again after a year of rehab and stuff like that.
		But to be honest, this entire year from the time of this tricep has just been shitty health-wise for me because about four and a half months ago, I got testicular cancer.
		Oh, shit.
		Yeah.
		So I had to deal with that, too.
		What happened there?
		I lost a nut.
		Damn.
		Yeah.
		My buddy Duncan lost a nut.
		And my buddy Tom Green.
		It was crazy.
		You're a fucking young guy.
		29, like, no family history of it.
		Like, it wasn't even a thought.
		I was actually getting ready for World's Strongest Man.
		Had like a super heavy squat and deadlift session one day and I was wearing like a squat suit and a deadlift suit.
		So like those things are super uncomfortable.
		What is a squat suit?
		It literally is like this, I say elastic, but it's just a super thick suit that you wear that pretty much aids in the lift, right?
		Like if you've ever seen guys wear like a bent shirt, you know, it's the same thing, but for a squat movement and a deadlift movement.
		So, like, everything gets just jumbled up in there.
		And it's just disgustingly uncomfortable.
		So, like, the next day, I kind of had some, like, pain in my groin.
		And I was like, eh, it's probably just from the session yesterday.
		But it, like, kind of got more intense and was, like, shooting up kind of into my abdomen.
		I was like, eh, something may be wrong here.
		So I checked it out.
		And the thing is, like, when people say testicular cancer, they're like, oh, like, you'll feel a lump.
		Mine felt, like, legit like a tiny hard string.
		Like it was nothing crazy.
		And I was like, okay, like this is a little weird.
		And we're about three, four weeks before World's Strongest Man.
		So I'm like, okay, I have my physical coming up.
		Let me get a check then.
		Within a week, it had grown to like the size of a dime.
unidentified		Whoa.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then they were like, yeah, okay, with that kind of growth, we need to get you checked out.
		Gets me an ultrasound the week later.
		Now it's the size of like a quarter.
		And this is on a two.
		So this, I go in on a Tuesday for my ultrasound.
		Then they're like, okay, well, you need to go to an oncologist, right?
		So I was like, okay, well, that's like, never having cancer or anything, that's probably the weirdest and most emotional phone call to make, right?
		Like when you're like, well, shit, I'm 29, I have to schedule an oncology appointment.
		So I get in for that Thursday.
		The doctor comes in.
		I have Joey, my husband, with me.
		He literally walks in, puts the paper down.
		He's like, okay, so you're going to come in on Tuesday and we're going to remove your testicle.
		I was like, okay, zero to 100 real quick.
		What is the explanation for the speed of the growth?
		Because I thought cancer was like a slow progression and you could treat it.
		Because there's so much hormonal activity in the testes, you know, like testosterone.
		Especially yours.
		Yeah.
		Testosterone is extremely anabolic.
		Anabolics make things grow.
		Oh, so it makes cancer grow too?
		Exactly.
		Oh, wow.
		So as your body is recovering and you get all that test flow, it's actually...
		Growing cancer.
		The piggyback effect.
		Yeah.
		Is that what's happening?
		Pretty much, yeah.
		Cancer's piggybacking on your testosterone?
		Yeah.
		Wow.
		How long before it became the size of a quarter?
		It was another week.
		So this is like two weeks.
		It goes from the size of a string to the size of a quarter.
		That's insane.
		So it just happens out of nowhere?
		And then from that Thursday to the time I go into surgery, the...
		By the time they removed everything, they measured it and tested the sample, it was actually just under the size of a half dollar.
		And that was, like, another five days.
		Wow!
		So, like, testicular cancer can grow at an insanely high rate.
		Dudes all across the world right now are checking their nuts.
		Yeah, I mean, I will say, like, the coolest thing is, like, you know, I kind of put everything out there on social media, you know, between YouTube and Instagram and stuff like that.
		And the coolest thing was just, like, I shared my story about it because, like, I never thought I'd be going through this.
		And just kind of saying like, this is what I found.
		This is how I found it.
		You know, just dudes, check yourself.
		Super easy.
		I had like legit five or six people find out that they had testicular cancer because I was just kind of candid with what I was going through.
		It's pretty common.
		Super common.
		And I'm kind of in the sweet spot, right?
		Like they say like between the ages of like 25 and 40 are where you're most likely going to get it.
		Really?
		Yeah.
		That's so weird.
		Yeah.
		Does it have to do with testosterone?
		I think so.
		Yeah, I think it's just like the growth rate and like, you know, hormone maturity kind of in that age range.
		Isn't it weird that there's like certain organs and certain parts of people's bodies that like regularly get cancer?
	Like women get regular ovarian cancer is very common.
	Or breast cancer.
	Breast cancer, very common.
	With dudes, it's nut cancer.
	Yeah, or prostate.
	Yeah, prostate cancer.
	It's weird how common it is.
	But what's crazy is, too, what I didn't realize is testicular cancer can actually travel up the lymph nodes into the abdomen.
	And, like, it can become, like, colon cancer really quickly.
	Right?
	So, like, that's why they act so fast on it.
	So, like, before I even had surgery, like, I had to get a CT scan, like, with the dye and everything to make sure there was no metastasis or anything like that.
	Luckily, there wasn't any.
	Now, did they give you any instructions about changing your diet or anything like that?
	No.
	No?
	No.
	Because it was stage one.
	Okay.
	Right?
	So there was, pretty much what they told me was a crapshoot that I got it.
	Like, they didn't really give me a rhyme or reason as to why I may have gotten cancer.
	Hmm.
	Yeah.
	So it's just, you might get it, you might not.
	Yeah.
	That's so fucked.
	Right?
	Yeah, because it's like if there was something preventable, like if you get lung cancer and you smoke cigarettes, like, hey.
	You kind of know why you got it.
	You know why you got it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But nut cancer out of nowhere.
	Just kind of, yeah.
	Just happens.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And so they remove a ball.
		Did you put a fake one in?
		No.
		You know, so here's the thing with that.
		Like, one, it's kind of expensive because it's cosmetic, right?
		Really?
		It's not covered by insurance.
		Don't you just stick a little rubber one in there?
		That's what I, well, I didn't even know there were prosthetic nuts.
		They have them for dogs, too.
		Yeah.
		Which is the dumbest shit.
		But, like, I'm kind of a smartass.
		And, like, I decided to have...
		Like, I'm in this moment where I'm in this doctor's appointment.
		And I'm like, okay, I'm having a nut removed in, like, four days.
		My husband's sitting behind me.
		I was like, okay.
		So the doctor's like, oh, like, you know, let's do an exam.
		Do you want him to leave?
		I was like, it's nothing he's never seen before.
		So he's fine.
		And then he's like, oh, like, do you want a prosthetic?
		Like, it'd be easier to put one in while we're in there.
		I was like, didn't know that was an option.
		So he takes some out and shows me some.
		And so my mind starts going, I'm like, got any of that are like glow in the dark?
		What does a fake nut look like when it's on the table?
		It looks like a silicone.
		It's like a little silicone implant.
		Oh, like a breast implant.
		Yeah, same kind of material.
		So clear.
		They don't have glow-in-the-dark nuts.
		Nor do they have Bluetooth.
		You wanted a Bluetooth nut?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How cool would that be?
		Then Bill Gates would be sending you messages.
		I'm more thinking of like, we're going to bed and I put Eye of the Tiger on.
		Well, you can get glow-in-the-dark tattoos.
		You can get your nuts tattooed.
		Oh, true.
		That would hurt.
		Oh, yeah.
		I mean, I only have one now, so it'll only be a singular nut.
		Well, you can get your fake nut sack, like, if you want to put one in there.
		But that's the thing.
		After you take one out, like, the other one starts centralizing and growing a little bit.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So I have, like, a cyclops sack.
		Oh, interesting.
		You should measure it.
		How much bigger is it than it used to be?
		I didn't get a control measurement prior to the removal.
		That would have been interesting.
		I know.
		Interesting data.
		Like, you found out your sack gained 30%.
		How much bigger do you think it is?
		I don't think I've noticed it much as of yet, because it's only been about four months.
		They say it takes probably about a year for me to notice it kind of migrating.
		It hasn't reached its full form.
		Yeah, no.
		And so it picks up the pace.
		Hey Rob, would you talk about Joe Rogan?
		No, my nuts.
		And glow in the dark.
		So it picks up the pace?
		Yeah, so it's pretty much standard.
		It picks up the slack for the lack of the other one.
		Yeah, so my friend Duncan got his wife pregnant after he had the nut removed.
		Yeah, super.
		Everything's fine.
		So your test levels basically stay the same?
		Yeah.
		Wow.
		You know, now it's just like going through, you know, so luckily I didn't have to do chemo or radiation or anything like that because it was stage one.
		So now it's just like we're doing what's called active monitoring.
		Why can't they just take the piece of the nut that's fucked?
		Because it's one organ, so they just have to take everything out.
		And they don't even biopsy it, right?
		So if you have a growth on your nut, they're just going to go and take it out.
		Really?
		Yeah, because the attempt to biopsy it, from what I understand, it damages the testicle if you attempt to biopsy it.
		So if you take a chunk out of your nut.
		Yeah, and what's weird is when they take it out, They don't go through your sac.
		It's like a hernia surgery.
		They go through your pant line and then go down.
		Oh, why?
		Yeah, because all the organs and things that come with it have to come out.
		So like the epididymis, they have to take the lymph nodes associated with that testy.
		All that stuff has to come out as well.
		Oh, okay.
		So you don't just lose the testicle.
		You lose all the cargo.
		Yeah.
		Do they put that on a plate so you can get a look at it after it's over?
		No, I didn't get to see any of it.
		I would have liked to look at that.
		I mean, that's what I was saying.
		I was like, can I get the nut back and make a necklace or something?
		Yeah, formaldehyde.
unidentified		Have it on your drawer next to your office or something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know?
		It's like, it was yours.
		Yeah.
		Well, now it's theirs.
		So, the test levels stay the same.
unidentified		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And do you have no noticeable difference in, like, the way you feel or anything?
		No, I feel good.
		Other than your underwear fit a little different?
		Yeah, I mean, I will say, like, it was a big, like, psychological moment for me to actually, like...
		Feel it again.
		Like actually put my hand on myself again.
		Because I've lived 29 years with two of them.
		Now I only have one.
		Honestly, it took me about a week and a half to two weeks to actually be okay with that.
		Have you thought about going back and putting a fake one in there?
		I Don't want to go through the surgery again.
		My husband's fine with it seems like yeah, I mean like who wouldn't be yeah Like why would you even want a fake nut?
		That's the thing.
		It's like fish just for you.
		Oh, yeah Yeah, fake boobs don't bother guys, but I think a fake nut would bother people.
		It's different.
		Possibly, yeah.
		It's like a fake sex organ.
		It's not just aesthetic.
		It serves no purpose.
		Yeah.
		It's an odd thing to think that your body turns on you like that.
		Yeah, it sucks.
		Does it make you think about the rest of your body?
		I mean, I take care of myself.
		Yeah, but you've got cancer.
		That's what's crazy.
		I do feel pretty good that we had the CT scan and nothing else came up.
		So we knew it was just stage one and I didn't have to do chemo or anything like that.
		Now I just have to do regular, like I have a schedule that I have to follow of CT scans and blood work to make sure nothing comes up.
		And it has nothing to do with diet, nothing to do with anything.
		No!
		That's what's crazy.
		They say that, and I don't know if this is accurate, but they say that ketogenic diets are very good for preventing cancer because there's something about cancer needing glucose to grow, whereas ketones, cancer doesn't grow on ketones, but your body can function better.
		Yeah, I mean, it makes sense, you know, like, you think fat grows with glucose, so why wouldn't something else that's a little bit more anabolic?
		Yeah.
		So it makes sense physiologically.
		Yeah.
		I like carbs.
		Well, I could imagine.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When you do that kind of work, I mean, is there anybody that tries to follow a keto diet that does powerlifting or strongman type stuff like you?
		I mean, you have Mark and Chris Bell.
		They do the carnivore stuff.
		Yeah, but they take carbs.
		I see those guys.
		They're always eating apples and shit.
		Chris eats a lot of fruit.
		Yeah.
		But they're just doing it for aesthetics.
		They just look good.
		They lift weights.
		You're involved in serious competition with other gorillas that are trying to pick up super heavy shit.
		Much bigger gorillas.
		Yeah, I would imagine carbs are almost necessary.
		Yeah, I mean, they're a staple in every meal.
		What is your standard diet, like a standard plate for you?
		What do you eat?
		Typically like anywhere between one to two cups of rice, depending on the time of day and where my training is at.
		Eight to ten ounces of meat.
		And then some veggies.
		Yeah, Robert Ober said that he's basically rice and meat.
		Yeah.
		That's the primary.
		Is that most strong men?
		It's the easiest way to get the calories and the nutrients in, right?
		And then, like, fortunately, you know, because of what we do and the energy expenditure and, like, the time our workouts take, like, we usually get, most guys get a couple of cheat meals a week.
		That's why we don't look like bodybuilders.
		Right?
		Like, we eat relatively clean, but in order to keep up with what we're doing, you know, I mean, shit, sometimes my workouts take like six hours that I'm at the gym.
		Jesus Christ.
		You know, so it's like, if I'm there, like, sorry, like, a plate of chicken and rice isn't gonna do it for me after.
		Right.
		No, I can only imagine.
		And I don't think it'd be bad for you guys to have body fat either.
		It'd probably help.
		Yeah, absolutely.
		I mean, you don't want anything that reduces your ability to put out strength.
		And there's nothing about having low body fat that makes you stronger.
		No, I mean, that's the thing is, like, at the end of the day, we have to be able to perform when we're competing, right?
		And, like, nothing against bodybuilders, but the performance is aesthetic-based, right?
		Like, you're standing, you're posing, granted, like...
		I could never do what they do, mainly because I don't want to.
		Yeah, you could do it.
		I could, I just don't want to.
		But what we do is we have to be on the stage lifting crazy shit, carrying it, throwing it.
		There's a certain level of athleticism and performance that we have to achieve to win.
		Yeah, bodybuilding is one of the weirdest sports because when you're seeing them and they're posing, they're on death's door.
		Oh yeah!
		Those guys are like literally ready to die.
		Their kidneys are ready to fail.
		And people look at them as like the epitome of health at that moment.
		They're so dehydrated when you see them like that.
		That's why they're so shredded.
		Have you ever backstage at those events?
		Their feet are all cramped up like they can't walk correctly.
		It's insane.
		I mean, I respect the fuck out of them.
		It's hard, hard work.
		It's a difficult thing to do.
		Insane discipline.
		Insane.
		I mean, yeah, they're on a shit ton of steroids.
		But listen, the steroids don't make you that big.
		No, God, no.
	That's like the big misconception.
	Oh, they're just on steroids.
	All steroids do is help you recover.
	That's all they do.
unidentified		Well, that's the thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you take steroids and you just sit on your ass, you're going to get fat.
		Yeah.
		Right?
		Like, the anabolics have to feed something.
		And if you're not training, it's not going to your muscle.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you're just going to get fat doing it.
		You'd probably get a little stronger.
		Yeah.
		I mean, getting up and off the couch every once in a while, you're going to gain some muscle, I guess.
		But I just feel like your body with all those hormones would probably just get a little stronger.
		Yeah.
		But you're not going to get big like those guys.
		You're not going to look like Ronnie Coleman.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Big Ramy right now.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He just looks insane.
		Those guys are so preposterous when you see them in real life.
		300 pounds stepping on stage at like 3% body fat.
		That doesn't make sense to me.
		It's interesting too, right?
		Because it's like an anatomy class.
		When you're looking at all their tissue and everything, it's like you can see where everything connects.
		You can actually see the striations of the muscle.
		It's insane.
		It's very strange, but people have associated that with health and vitality to look like that.
		Meanwhile, there's a story about a new bodybuilder dying every single week.
		Don't they usually die from the diuretics?
		That's usually it.
		And some of them from pain pills.
		Yeah.
		Because they're, you know, in agony a lot of times.
		Well, yeah.
		I mean, they're taking, you know, Lasix and stuff like that to get so shredded and lean to step on stage.
		By the way, that's not the eye surgery, kids.
		No, no.
		Imagine, they're getting eyes.
		I heard it on the Joe Rogan experience.
		They take eye surgery to get to lose weight.
		See, that's the shit you think about that, you know, coming out of my mouth.
		I'm like, oh, yeah, Lasix.
		Yeah, not Lasix eye surgery.
		Yeah, it's some kind of diuretic, right?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's very different.
		Like, if you want to see what a real strong person looks like, they all kind of look like you.
		Oh, thank you.
		You know what I'm saying?
		They're all, like, thick.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, big, thick.
		You never, like, shredded there.
		Oh, my God.
		That's Ray Williams.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Look at the size of that guy.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		24% body fat when they tested him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that makes sense.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		At 400 pounds.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and he's squatting 1,000 pounds raw right there.
		Ooh.
		Oh my god, that is so crazy.
		He has 300 pounds of fat-free mass.
		That's crazy.
		So he has 100 pounds of fat on his body.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		30 kilograms more than the most I'd ever studied.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Jesus Christ.
		Ray Williams is a very muscular dude.
		Well, that's the thing, right?
		If you're going to study someone and you want to find real freaks, like the World's Strongest Man, those strongman competitions, that's some of the freakiest humans alive, right?
		Yeah.
		What we do doesn't make sense, and I do it.
		You know, like at World's Strongest Man in 2019, we had to pull two monster trucks because one was too light.
		Like, come on.
		Personally, that pissed me off because I suck at that event.
unidentified		Do you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it was a slight incline.
		Is that a weight event where it helps to be a 400-pound guy versus a 280-pound guy?
		With that event, mass moves mass.
		So in that year, I had Thor in my group.
		The dude weighed 430, 440 when we were competing against each other.
		Bro, he's pretty light now, isn't he?
		Yeah, he's, I think, about 330. He's actually right down the street.
		Oh, really?
		He was at the Onnit gym.
		He put up Thor's Instagram.
		I know he was here lately.
		I know Rain had them in LA and stuff like that.
		He might even be here this weekend.
unidentified		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think he's here right now, because he was at Onnit Gym, and he put up video of him hitting the pads, and I have to say, like, he's doing everything right.
		He looks solid.
		He looks really...
		But it's interesting because he's learning how to box, because he's having these boxing matches, but the way he's doing it is very intelligent.
		Like, he's not just like...
		Gritting his teeth and throwing his arms as far and using all his physical muscle power.
		He's learning how to do it correctly.
		And everything is like real smooth and polished and technical.
		When you're fighting, you do have to be pretty relaxed when you're doing it.
		You have to be able to generate force quickly, but you also have to be supple.
		You have to be relaxed because if you're relaxed, you actually can move faster.
		When you really tense up and wind up, you lose a lot of your ability to close the distance quick.
		It's got to be, like, efficient.
		And the way you get efficient is by repetition with proper technique and learning how to, you know, hit paths with proper technique.
		And, you know, when I first saw him doing that, I was like, oh, my God, imagine going from being strongman and being the mountain on Game of Thrones...
		To trying to box, like this is so awkward.
		But not anymore, man.
		When you see him, did you find it?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I don't see it at all.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		At least not at all.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, maybe it's in the On It gym.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I switched to that and I wasn't seeing it there either.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		God, dude, maybe it's one of the trainers I find.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Recently?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, today.
unidentified		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it's one of the trainers I follow that posted it.
		But, fuck, I really think it was him.
		Shit.
		I mean, I know he's in the States right now because he was just in LA less than a week ago.
		No, he's in Austin.
		He's in Austin.
		Let's see that right there.
		See that right there.
		That's not at the honor gym.
		That's just him.
		Yeah, he's lost like about a hundred pounds.
		Yeah.
		He looks great.
		Yeah.
		No, he looks awesome.
		It's crazy.
		It's like a totally different kind of human now.
		Big time.
		No, he looks like a big athlete.
		I wonder what his like long-term goals are in that are.
		I don't know.
		There's a lot of money in like freak boxing matches.
		I know.
		You know?
		It's crazy.
		If he could get like Logan Paul to box the mountain.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, Pujnowski.
		Oh yeah, Pujnowski.
		Yeah, he won.
		But he's been fighting for a long time now.
		Yeah, ever since he stepped out of World's Strongest Man, he went into the MMA world.
		Watch this.
		This is an interesting fight.
		Pretty quick KO. Watch this.
		Right here.
		Boom.
		Boom.
		Yeah.
		Crazy.
		And the guy who fought is a giant too.
		Yeah.
		Crazy.
		But Puchinowski's been fighting in MMA for a long time.
		He fought Tim Sylvia, who was the former UFC heavyweight champion, and that was a crazy, stupid fight.
		Was that good?
		No.
		No, he got his ass kicked.
		But, I mean, like, of course he got his ass kicked.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's literally fighting a former world champion, and he's just a really strong guy learning how to fight.
		Exactly.
		And he was a guy, like, when he first started fighting, you could see, like, he'd hit pads, and it'd be like...
		It would be all arms.
		Just Neanderthal?
		Yeah, but now he's like throwing his shoulders in and moving his hips.
		He's still big as fuck, but he's lost some weight.
		I feel like none of us strongmen are ever going to be small.
		Right, for the rest of your life, probably.
		When you get to this level, I think you're just like, you know, I look at my life and I'm like, yeah, probably the lightest it'll ever be is like 230 to 240. People are always coming to you to open the mayonnaise jar.
		Always.
unidentified		100%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You're probably always keep...
		I mean, you only lose so much of it.
		You're not going to ever be, like, a marathon runner.
		Nor do I want to be.
		Right.
		Yeah.
		How long do you think you're going to do this for?
		I don't know, man.
		You know, it's interesting.
		You know, I messaged you a little bit about, like, the stuff that my...
		where my career is going, right?
unidentified		Like...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because we talked about, you know, how Strongman, you know, World's Strongest Man should be a million dollar title.
		It should be.
		You know?
		And, like, we're kind of working towards that.
		So, like...
		Super.
		I'm actually like, this is the first time I'm talking about it.
		So I actually now am the CEO and part owner of Strongman Corporation.
unidentified		Oh.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How'd that happen?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like three days ago.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		Congratulations.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We've been working on it for a little while.
		My business partner and I have kind of been, we kind of put our heads together and, you know, honestly, like taking what you were saying and like, how do we build this sport to something bigger?
		And we decided to kind of start from the grassroots, right?
		So Strongman Corporation, it's the largest amateur and professional organization in the world for Strongman.
		Like, just over 12, around 12,000 members worldwide.
		Wow.
		So, yeah, so as of three years ago now, I'm at the helm of it.
		Dude, congratulations.
		Pretty pumped, yeah.
		That's fucking badass.
		Listen, man, it is an entertaining thing to watch the strongest fucking humans in the world.
		Absolutely.
		The idea that that's not a big thing, but golf is.
		Sorry, Jamie.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But do people watch golf on TV? Because I don't play golf, so I don't watch golf, right?
		The people that watch golf all play golf.
		But everybody will watch some fucking gorilla try to throw a barrel over the top of a pole vault beam.
		Yeah.
		It's a spectacle, right?
		And I think one of the things that we're...
		That's what we're going to be trying to change.
		I think it's like people see strongman as something that's so unattainable.
		And kind of the analogy that my business partner used, it's something I never thought of.
		It's like...
		I think Strongman for a long time and the reason it hasn't really grown is because people have tried to normalize it and it's not normal.
		Right?
		Like you're not going to sit back and watch the NBA dunk contest to try to get ideas of dunks you want to try in your backyard.
		Right.
		Right?
		Like you watch these guys to do crazy shit that is just out of this world cool.
		Like log presses.
		Yeah.
		Exactly, right?
		Like, that's what strongman should be.
		Like, you know, we should be looking at these people as superhuman freaks, you know?
		There's Magnus for Magnuson.
		Yeah, that's one of my favorites, the car pull.
		Yeah, so that's an event the Hercules hold, and instead of just doing two pillars, they put two cars on ramps, and it's like, you know what, we're gonna take the brakes off, just hold them together.
		Yeah, the cars are rolling back, and he's holding it as much as possible.
		You want to see a fucking insanely strong person?
		You know that girl, we've showed her on the podcast before, that really tiny girl, Stephanie Millinger?
		She's really tiny, and she's an incredible, like, contortionist, and her balance is insane, and she hangs off the side of cliffs and stuff and does, like, one-hand presses, like, literally with her feet dangling off cliffs.
		That's stupid.
		This is her.
		She's insanely strong, though, too.
		I love the cat on the floor in front of her.
		Yeah.
		Like, just...
		Yeah, this is a normal day.
		I know, that cat is so used to her doing freaky shit.
unidentified		Meanwhile...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's so confident, because she could kill that fucking cat, right?
		That is wild.
		I know.
		What she's doing, folks, the people listening, she's got these, like, dip bars, like, individual bars, but she's balancing them on their edges, and then she does a press.
		Oh, the cat was underneath the dip bar.
		Oh, my God.
		Literally could have killed the cat.
		A lot of cat lovers are going to be mad.
		This is the kind of shit she does.
		Like, doing a handstand.
		First off, you have to have the balls to walk out to that point on the cliff.
		Yeah, right?
		Like, I couldn't even stand there, let alone go up onto my hands.
		My hands get sweaty watching these.
		I do.
		I have a weird thing.
		Can I see heights?
		My hands get super sweaty.
		I think it's at Mark Bell's page.
		Go to Mark Bell's page.
		It's either Mark or Chris.
		Go to Big Strong Fast.
		I think it's...
		Yeah, I think it's...
		I'm pretty sure it's Chris Bell.
		And then you see her...
		Nope.
		Go to Mark.
		You see her doing this with all these weights.
		Like, so she's...
		That's it right there.
		Oh, I just saw this today.
		Look how fucking...
		She's so tiny, man.
		So look at her hanging from this bar with one, two, three, four, five 45-pound plates.
		No, six, seven.
unidentified		What?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Seven of them.
		Seven.
		She's got two behind her.
		She's got seven 45-pound plates.
		And she's tiny, man.
		I just love somebody.
		What the fuck was the point of this?
		Oh my god, she's getting another one.
		Oh, why not?
		Look at this.
		And then look how fucking strong her hands are.
		That's crazy.
		Yeah, I mean, she's flipping these 45-pound plates and catching them.
		In a split.
		In a split.
		You're right, they might not be 45. I think they're tens.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		Yeah, I think those look like rubber.
		But I mean, still, that's an extra 70 pounds on top of her, which when you think like percentage of body weight, how much does she probably weigh?
		120, 130 pounds?
		I don't even think she's that big.
		You know, and you're adding 70 pounds to your body weight.
		That's a huge percentage.
		She's hanging with her hands.
		That's incredible.
		My grip strength is not even that good.
		Yeah, I think you might be right.
		I have the Sorenex system in my house, and they have the big rubber plates that are 10s, and they look super impressive, but they're really only 10 pounds.
		Does it say anything, James?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I thought I saw 25 on one, but...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to see.
		Yeah.
		See, when I see plates like that from old school gym days, I assume they're 45s.
		One could hope.
		One could hope and dream.
		Imagine what an animal she'd be.
		That would be crazy.
		She had that much weight.
		That'd be insane.
		So even if they're five pounds, it's still crazy impressive.
		Yeah.
		It's her hand strength that's so nuts.
		That's ridiculous.
		At one point in time, she's hanging from one hand.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which is hard to do.
		While doing a split between the two uprights of the rack.
		It's hard to do just holding your hand.
		Can you see, like, yeah, zoom in on that.
		I think we'll need to see, is there a picture of the other side?
		Because usually the weight is only on one side.
		The numbers.
		Yeah, the numbers on one side of the plate.
		It's crazy, like, she doesn't have that on her page, because that's, like, one of the most impressive fucking things I've ever seen in her life.
		That's crazy, yeah.
		But she's a real freak.
		That's insane.
		Yeah, I mean, that's, if you take, like, peak human performance with, you know, that kind of flexibility and balance and take it, because she does it with these really, like, life-risking moves, like hanging over cliffs and shit.
		Yeah, I mean, I just lift heavy shit.
		I'm not going, like, up a mountain to do it.
		No.
		So when will you be back, like, fully?
		When do they anticipate that you'll be back, like...
		I mean, it's just gonna...
unidentified		It's been a year?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's been a year.
		My personal timeline is, I think, probably, like, another year.
		Really?
		Yeah.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Have you got any stem cells shot into there?
		No, I haven't done stem cells.
		I haven't done PRP, anything like that.
		Do you want to?
		If I had the opportunity, but life's kind of busy right now.
		I'm back to working a full-time job while doing Strongman and doing all that stuff.
		What are you doing as a full-time job?
		So I'm an athletic trainer at a high school.
		Oh, no kidding.
		Yeah, back in Western Mass.
		When did you start doing that again?
		I jumped back into it.
		Last time when I was on, I was just doing Strongman.
		And what I realized is I became a lazy Strongman.
		Right?
		Like when you have all day and your only job is really to train and run an Instagram page, it's pretty easy to become unmotivated.
		Is that real?
		It was for me.
		Like for me, I'd be like, you know, I'd wake up, like my husband would go off to work and I'd be like, all right, like I'll go to gym around 11 and like a workout that should only take me two hours took me like four because I was bullshitting a lot of the time.
		Sounds like heaven.
		I mean, yeah, but like...
unidentified		You don't have to do shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why'd you get a job?
		What the fuck are you doing, man?
		You were living the dream.
		No, but like my performance was decreasing as well.
		Really?
		Yeah, like I wasn't...
		I just wasn't able to do it.
		So a job helps your performance?
		Yeah, because I'm more structured in my day.
		Right?
		Like, so now I'm an athletic trainer at a high school, so I know...
		I don't go in...
		My schedule's pretty nice.
		Like, I go in at like noon...
		And most of the days work until about 5.30, but on game nights sometimes I work until 9. And I'll get my training in either in the morning or in the evening, but it's like I know I only have a certain amount of time to do it, so I need to make the most of that time and maximize my workout.
		That's fascinating.
		So you needed some sort of obligations in order you to sort of structure your discipline.
		Is that fair to say?
		Yeah, and I think that's just always how I've lived.
		Even when I was in college and grad school and stuff like that, I was always a go-go-go type of person.
		I never had downtime, per se.
		So I guess for me, I honestly just didn't know what to do with it.
		Were you on Instagram all day?
		A lot of the day.
		That's the problem.
		Yeah, 100%.
		I bet if you got a flip phone and you just had an open day, you'd get shit done.
		Well, that's the problem.
		Ever since I was on your show, I got more sponsors, which means more Instagram obligations, so I have to be on there more often.
		Just wait now.
		They're going to be coming in even hotter and faster.
		That's fine.
		I'll take it.
		So do you find any restrictions because of the job that bother you time-wise where it gets in the way?
		No, like as long as I... Plan.
		It's fine.
		You know, like I look at my game schedule for the week of the games that I have to cover and practices and stuff like that and just kind of plan backwards around that and I'm good.
		Is there any benefit in helping people and training people?
		Because when I was doing Taekwondo, one of the things that I noticed is that I got a lot better when I was teaching.
		Yeah, so I guess like there's a common misconception is like as an athletic trainer, I'm like I'm a healthcare professional.
		So I'm the guy that goes out onto the field when somebody gets hurt.
		That's what I do.
		So you're not working with these kids?
		I'm not a coach.
		I'm not a personal trainer.
		So I do sports rehab in the afternoon.
		I cover practices, taping, bracing, concussion evaluations.
		Why don't they use you for strength and conditioning work?
		There's just no time.
		Based on the time that We have, you know, the kids are in school during the day, and then the afternoon is all sports practice and stuff like that, and I have to be out there, you know, like I said, at a football practice in case somebody gets hurt, which most of the time somebody does, and I have to take care of it.
		So when those kids have, like, say at football teams, when those kids have a practice, they just basically have a practice a day.
		Do they have any weight room sessions?
		Not at the school that I'm at, no.
		And selfishly, I don't want that to be the case because I don't want to be at work that late.
		Quit your job, man.
		You had the dream.
		What the fuck are you doing?
		You had the dream.
		Well, and now part of the problem is, you know, fuck, man, I had cancer, so that shit's expensive.
		Oh, right.
		Like, even with health insurance, cancer costs me, like, over 12 grand.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And now I'm going to be meeting my deductible at least every year because I have to get...
		So, my schedule for my cancer, like, monitoring...
		I have to get a CT scan and blood work every three months for two years.
		And then it's every six months for another two years, and then once a year on year five.
		The whole insurance thing drives me fucking crazy.
		You're telling me.
		I feel like if you have insurance and then you get sick, the insurance is supposed to pay for it.
		It's such a weird concept.
		Like even deductibles.
		It's like, oh, we want to make more money than we make, so you have to pay some.
		Like, why am I paying you?
		Yeah, I pay, you know, I think it's like, I think for my husband and I, it's like 400 bucks a month.
		90% of the time I don't use that shit.
		Right.
		So all that money just goes to them.
		Goes to them.
		And then, oh, now you are sick, but you have to pay another four grand before we even kick in anything towards you.
		You know, so it's like I'm paying 400 bucks a month for my health insurance.
		Now I have to pay another four grand guaranteed every year now for the next few years because of how expensive blood work and CT scans are and how often I have to take them.
		It's so fucked.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because it's like the whole insurance scam is so interesting because it's like you're paying a company in case shit goes wrong.
		But then you have to pay them when it does go wrong.
		Yeah.
		It should be, like, fully covered.
		But then...
		I don't know.
		I don't...
		I'm the worst finance person on the face of the earth.
		Don't come to me with any of these questions.
		But that shit drives me nuts.
		And I remember when, you know, they were talking about insurance in California...
		Like when the fires went down, like how many insurance companies just went under and just were fucked because they didn't really have the money to pay for all the houses that they insured?
		That blows my mind.
		Like what are you talking about?
		Where does it go?
		But wait a minute.
		You insured the house, but we insured a lot of houses.
		We didn't anticipate a fire of this magnitude.
		Okay, but you did insure all those houses for fucking fire.
unidentified		Yeah.
b-real ▲ ● ▼		How do you not have that money?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You gave the policies, so...
		Somebody told me that's the case with banks, too.
		That, you know, you have all your money in a bank, but if everybody pulled their money out of the bank, the bank would be fucked.
		It's sort of like a big old Ponzi scheme.
		Yeah, they wouldn't be able to pay everybody if they pulled all their money out.
		What the fuck does that mean?
		Where's the money?
		It's like, that was that guy, Bernie Madoff, right?
		That's how he got fucked.
		Yeah.
		He got fucked.
		Well, he got fucked because he was a criminal.
		That'll do it.
		But during the 2008 recession, that's when everybody started saying, hey, I'm going to need that money.
		We lost our job, blah, blah, blah.
		And then he's like, there is no money.
		I don't got it.
		I'm in the middle of this podcast about Elizabeth Holmes, who is the lady who ran Theranos.
		Do you know what that is?
		No.
		That was that fake blood test company.
		Yes.
		And she hoodwinked really big people.
		She hoodwinked the guy, the head of Fox.
		What's his name?
		The old dude that ran Fox?
		Rupert Murdoch.
		She got him for like $100 million.
		She got Betsy DeVos for $100 million.
		I mean, I love that.
		What's going on here, Jeremy?
		These fucking pop-ups.
		Yeah, Betsy DeVos was misled by the Theranos founder before investing $100 million.
		So I'm listening to this podcast.
		It's really good.
		It's called The Dropout.
		Because she dropped out of college.
		I guess they call it The Dropout because of that.
		I don't know why.
		But it's all about how much they scammed.
		And all about how many people dumped money into this thing.
		And then at one point in time, she was worth somewhere in the neighborhood of like $9 billion.
unidentified		Damn!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She was the most wealthy, self-made woman in history.
		And it was all fake.
		Because most of these broads get that shit from divorce.
		I don't know if you know that.
		Yeah.
		It's pretty hilarious.
		If you look at like the...
		Sorry, I said broads, ladies.
		But if you look at the like...
		Women.
		The rich women or whatever...
		You know, with the Y. Whatever you want.
		Whatever you say.
		Whatever you want.
		But if you look at the wealthiest women, the vast majority of them got it from divorce.
		But not this lady.
		She got it from theft!
		Hey!
		That's one way to make your money.
		Theft and criminal enterprise.
		I heard on the radio there was actually this woman that she ran a coupon scheme.
		I did hear about that.
		That she learned how to manipulate the barcode so when people scanned them, the money would get deposited in her bank account.
		Really?
		So she ended up making like $38.1 million off of this.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Is a movie coming out or just came out about it, I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		About her?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		With the coupons?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		That's awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is she in jail now?
		Yeah, I think she's got like 12 years or something like that.
		These people gotta know when to bail.
		You know?
		Yeah.
		Don't wait till you get 38 million.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Leave at 30. Yeah.
		Do we have 30?
		Give me five.
		I'm cool with that.
		Do we have five million?
		Let's get the fuck out of here.
		Yeah.
		They're going to catch on.
		We can kind of lay low.
		Well, I mean, I've never had five million dollars, but you might be able to kind of lay low with five million dollars.
		Depends on how you live.
		True.
		If you want to live like Kanye West, I don't think it's going to work.
		No.
		If you want to be a baller.
		I could see you with a big fur coat showing up at the Strongman competitions.
		I mean, I'm pretty bougie, but that's next level.
		I mean, no, I'm not really that bougie at all.
		You should go hunt a grizzly bear, kill it, eat it, and then use its fur to make a coat.
		That'd be a pretty epic story.
		Bro.
		Come on.
		And that's your comeback coat.
		Like, wear that.
		It'd be pretty badass to have a comeback coat in the first place.
		Yes.
		You need a comeback coat.
		I like that.
		An actual grizzly bear.
		You want to take me hunting?
unidentified		Let's do it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		Let's go to Alaska.
		All right.
		Shoot one of them giant Kodiak bears.
		We're going to need a big one for you.
		We're going to need a real bear.
		All right.
		Could you think about a full-length, down-to-the-ground grizzly coat?
		I mean, with the Mohawk, it'd look pretty epic.
		Fuck yeah, dude.
		I'm in.
		And one of them cloud machines as you walk through the curtain.
		You know?
		One of those things.
unidentified		I love this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They have those smoke machines coming and the music playing.
		If we need a director of production, I'll hire you for Strongman Corporation now.
		I'm thinking about it now.
		I'm thinking about it.
		Maybe I need another job, too.
		Maybe that's what's wrong with me.
		I like it.
		The idea of needing a job to have discipline is kind of interesting.
		But I have heard that before.
		I remember I was reading about these guys that were doing Strongman-type shit and powerlifting shit.
		And it was in this article and this guy was giving advice about how to get into it.
		And one of the things that he said is get a job that where it requires you to do manual labor.
		Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of guys, like one of my previous coaches, Derek Poundstone, he, like, was a mason for years before he became a cop, right?
		And that just, like, builds up stupid kind of grip and forearm strength and just, like, you know, like some of the strongest people that I know, like, there was actually a guy, Mike Burke, who was a pro strongman.
		I think he was able to carry, I think he was, like, six 2x4s in one hand.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		At a time.
		And he was a construction worker building houses, and he'd be able to go up a ladder with six 2x4s in a hand.
		That's insane.
		It's just crazy.
		How does that even fit?
		I don't know.
		I think his hands were like 11 1⁄2 inches or 11 inches, something like that.
		Yeah, Masons.
		Those guys are always strong as fuck.
		I had one summer where I had to work.
		I did construction and I worked on a wheelchair ramp at a Knights of Columbus Hall.
		And the entire time I worked there, all we did was carry bags of cement and pressure-treated lumber.
		And I quit after a couple months, but I remember it was a huge lesson to me, first of all, that I never want a job like that, and that people do get jobs like that and they stick with them for life.
		That's crazy.
		Yeah, crazy.
		But also that time is precious.
		And the time that I spent doing that all day, at the end of the day, I was so exhausted that I would go to train.
		And when I go to train, I had nothing.
		Yeah.
		I had nothing in the tank.
		I remember like hitting the bag and just like, I just couldn't generate any energy.
		I just had no power.
		Pre-workout's not going to do shit for you.
		There was no pre-workouts back then either.
		This is back in the day.
		I'm old.
		This is in the 80s.
		Nobody had pre-workouts.
		It was just, you just worked out.
		Just D-ball.
		Yeah, I mean, some guys drank coffee, I guess.
		That was, like, your pre-workout.
		Maybe I just wasn't in the bodybuilding scene.
		Maybe those guys did.
		Didn't they use poppers?
		Didn't guys, like, crack nitrates and shit under their nose?
unidentified		I didn't know that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, smelling salts.
		Yeah, the ammonia.
		Yeah.
		What is it about smelling salts that get you ramped up?
		You crack them under their nose, right?
		Yeah, yeah.
		It hurts.
unidentified		Yeah?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So I think it just, like, initiates this, like, fight or flight.
		Is that legal before tournaments?
		Oh, yeah.
		Really?
		You do it?
		I should have brought some, man.
		I could have tried it.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I got one that's literally called Hellfire.
		Wait a minute.
		So they have brands of smelling salts?
		Oh, there's entire companies that just make smelling salts.
		Just for lifting?
		Yeah, this company that I work with.
		Jamie, order up some smelling salts.
		We're going to do this.
		Because we're putting in a gym next door.
		Do you want, like, legit, like, hardcore shit?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going soft.
		So, do you know the guy Jujimufu?
		Yes.
		I know it because of Derek from MorePlatesMoreDates.com.
		He had him featured in a video.
		That guy's gigantic.
		Judy, deceivingly.
		They were trying to say that he's not on the juice.
		I think he's only like 5'8".
		Yeah, but he's...
		He's shredded.
		He just did his first bodybuilding show.
		He did the Olympia amateur bodybuilding show.
		They were trying to say he's not on the juice.
		How's that?
		I don't know.
		How's that possible?
		I don't know if it is.
		How's that?
		But this dude, he has...
		Yeah, that's him.
		He's psycho.
		It's very unlikely that that guy's not in the sauce, right?
		But he's awesome.
		And he at Worlds in 2019, he came up to me and he had just started the smelling salt company called Ah.
		Literally, that's all it's called.
		And he comes with me.
		He's like, hey, Rob, smell this.
		And like a stereotypical dude, without even thinking, I do.
		And he put it into my nose and I took a whiff.
		Dude, I'm not kidding.
		I threw up.
		I thought my nostrils were bleeding.
		I was crying for at least five minutes because of how bad it hurt.
		Really?
		That shit's good.
		Is it dangerous?
		No.
		But if it makes your nostrils burn, like, what's going on?
		I mean, I think it could be fair.
		It is a chemical reaction that's occurring in the bottle that you're inhaling.
		So it can't be amazing.
		It's literally like so like they have the little ammonia caps that like paramedics will use to wake up somebody when they're unconscious.
		This is like what we use is that but like amplified by 10. Is it just okay because you only use it rarely?
		Yeah, like, I use it...
		Oh, you were doing that all day long?
		Oh, yeah, it'd fuck you up.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		He's got a custom salt called Woke.
unidentified		Woke?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Custom scented smelling salts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is in there?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't say.
		I was trying to look at it.
		It's just a bunch of, like, literature, and it doesn't say what's in it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How the fuck can you have something like that and not tell people what's in it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, Joe, I don't think these things are FDA approved.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		I'll...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, guess what?
		What is FDA approved?
		A bunch of shit that's terrible for you.
		True.
		I mean, isn't OxyContin FDA approved?
		Yeah, that's the one that I smell, yeah.
		Most raw materials.
		Oh, okay.
		What does that mean?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		The fuck does that mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Most sophisticated formula.
		Most raw materials.
		It just fucking hurts, man.
		It sounds like he wrote all that.
unidentified		Right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, it's legit.
		So what do you do?
		You just squirt it?
		No.
		Because that's a bottle.
		You open up the bottle and hold it about eight inches away from your face and it'll get you.
		That far?
		Oh, yeah, man.
		Jamie, order that shit right now, please.
		What's the best shit to order?
		The Hellfire or his shit?
		That's probably the strongest I've used.
		His?
		I don't use it because it's actually too strong.
		Oh, yeah.
		Order that.
		The Hellfire stuff is just enough to really get me going and be like, okay, yeah, that sucked, but let's pick up something heavy.
		Yeah, I want my first experience with smelling salts to be fucking awful.
		I'm going to film it, too.
		I'll put it on Instagram and I'll tag it.
		Hell yeah, absolutely.
		So I'll find out if I throw up as well.
		Yeah, but that thing is, he put it in my nose and I took a whiff.
		I'm excited to do this.
		I'm excited to make a video.
		Yeah, no, it's terrible, but fabulous at the same time.
		So the idea is you smell it, and then why does it make you stronger?
		Like, what does it do for you?
		I think because it just, like, it amplifies everything.
		Like, it's pain, right?
		So, like, you fought.
		Like, when you're in pain and you're innocent, like, it kind of just elicits this response, like, you have to do something.
		Like a fight or flight.
		Exactly.
		Right?
		So, like, if you're fighting and you're, you know, in an arm bar or something hurts, like, you're going to do whatever it takes to get out of that position.
		So is that why dudes slap their chest?
		Exactly.
		Have you ever seen this bench presser, Scott Mendelsohn?
		No.
		Oh, dude.
		He legit goes onto stage and has his wife smack the shit out of him before he benches.
		I need to see this.
		She'll just stand there and just wail on his face before he goes four or five times, and then he lays down and Bench presses, 700 pounds.
		Clay Guida and his brother, Clay Guida fought in the UFC. He still fights in the UFC, but he's fought in the UFC for a long time.
		And his brother would bring him up to the cage, and then right before he would go in the cage, his brother would smack him in the face like a bunch of times.
		Like, one, two, three, four.
		So here's the guy.
		Yeah.
		Oh, is that a bench suit?
		Is that why his arms are out there like that?
		Yeah, so that's the bench shirt.
		And then his wife is going to come up, and she's...
		There's the ammonia.
		Smelling salts.
		And then here we go.
unidentified		Just...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh my god.
		Literally smacking the shit out of them.
		She seems to enjoy that.
		She's like, you motherfucker, you left the seat up.
		You didn't do the laundry.
		Yeah.
		So that gets them hyped up even more.
		I wonder if they've done controls where they've had...
		I think it's different for everybody.
		I've had somebody come and double hand trap slap me right before I deadlift.
		I'm like, no man, that just fucking hurt.
		I'm not into it now.
unidentified		No.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I see people drinking whiskey.
		Is that different?
		I know it's the same thing, but how does that compare to...
unidentified		Yeah, why do they drink whiskey?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		To be honest, I don't really drink.
		At all?
		No, not into it.
		Just not a thing for me.
unidentified		Good for you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I just get stoned instead.
		That's better.
		Yeah, way better.
		And that's not good for lifting.
		No, that's why I do it at night.
		But it is good for lifting.
		I mean, it wouldn't be good for lifting the heaviest weight, but I do like to get high and lift.
		So there's a lot of bodybuilders that'll take sativa prior to working out, just a little dose, because it does help that mind-muscle connection.
		Guys feel like they can focus a lot more on what they're doing in the gym.
		For me, yeah, it would just fuck me up too much, man.
		If I'm trying to deadlift 900 pounds.
		You're doing gorilla shit.
		It's a different kind of shit.
		But I love it when I hit the bag.
		I like to smoke weed and hit the bag.
		I feel like my technique is better.
		I'm more in my timing.
		My movement is better.
		And when I'm lifting, I feel like I can feel all the muscles.
		You can feel everything.
		You feel all the fibers.
		You feel when you're doing things wrong.
		Yeah, and that's exactly what I was saying.
		That's why a lot of really good bodybuilders will Get a little stone before they go train because they can focus better.
		Do you ever do yoga?
		I don't.
		Dude, I'm probably the most immobile piece of shit there is.
		It's like my husband gets on me all the time.
		I have negative ankle range of motion.
		I can't even get my ankle to neutral.
		But this is not a problem for what you do.
		No, I'm functionally mobile in my sport.
		In your sport?
		In my sport.
		But your sport doesn't require mobility, it just requires gurr.
		Yeah, I mean, there's some level of mobility, you know, to be able to, like, reach down to the ground and pick up an Atlas stone.
		Right.
		You know, or get to triple extension while throwing a bag and stuff like that.
		Is there any benefit to being more flexible than you are?
		Um...
		Yes and no, right?
		Like, I think it would take some time to get strong in those new ranges of motion that may...
		It would probably be a detriment to where I'm at in my career right now.
		Because it would take away from the time you use for other stuff.
		Exactly.
		Like, there's some guys like Martins Lises who is...
		Crazy mobile.
		Can just like squat below parallel, no problem, just have no issues whatsoever.
		But he's like worked in those range of motions for years, right?
		And he has the strength at those end ranges, whereas like I just don't.
		And getting to the point where I can hit those, you know, those ranges of motion and stay strong, I think would take away from where I'm at right now.
		That makes sense.
		There's only so much time in a day, and the resources that you would use to recover from all that kind of stuff, you could be using to recover from the powerlifting moves.
		Yeah, and it would take away from my training.
		Devoting an hour to mobility a day, an hour's a long time.
		So to be able to do that while working, while training, and the gym I go to is 45 minutes away from my house, so it's not like I'm close.
		Do you have any weightlifting shit at your house?
		Yeah, I do.
		I actually...
		Two weeks ago, I picked up a sponsor, the Rep Fitness.
		They picked me up and they sent me an entire home gym.
		Oh, nice.
		So I have that at home now.
		You have a garage set up?
	Yeah, so I have a full power rack, weights, dumbbells up to 150, GHD, stuff like that.
	That changes everything.
	Yeah, it's going to be really nice to be able to come home and just hit my squat session or bench workout and stuff like that when I'm at home and not have to spend almost another two hours in the car that day.
	Yeah, I was talking about Sorenark.
	I'm wearing a Sorenark shirt.
	It's a sponsored show.
	Not really, but he's my friend.
	But they set up this gym at my house, and if I know that I have to leave in an hour, I can just run into the gym, get 45 minutes in, full tilt, shower up, and I'm good.
	That's giant, because otherwise it just wouldn't get done, because I wouldn't have the time to get to the gym.
	Having something at home.
	I mean, you don't need to, you know, have a fucking kettlebells or some free weights, something.
	I mean, you could torture yourself with, you know, a set of like 25 pound dumbbells.
	Yeah, or a 25 pound medicine ball.
	Do some wild shit with a medicine ball.
	So I'm excited to have that stuff at my house now where I can go down and just crush some shit and just have to walk upstairs to shower now.
	Yeah, that's a giant investment.
	If anybody wants to really invest in your health, just get some equipment.
	Get a chin-up bar.
	Just a chin-up bar and a power rack.
	And the nice thing is, so Rep, they have a $1,000 at-home gym kit.
	Where you get like a rack.
	I think you get like 400 pounds of plates.
	You get a barbell.
	Oh, nice.
	You know, so like you get the basics.
	Like 400 pounds for most people is going to be more than enough.
	Yeah.
	You know, so to be able to like do that, it's great.
	Yeah.
	Well, the reason why I brought up yoga is yoga is my absolute favorite thing to do high.
	Smoking pot and going to yoga is...
	I could probably get down with that.
	My God, dude.
	It's like a life-changing experience because as you're doing these poses, it's like you're feeling your tissues stretch out and then, you know...
	I do the hot yoga too, so you have to deal with your shit because you want to quit.
	Are you like a sativa guy, indica, hybrid?
	Where do you fall?
	I like sativas, but I like indicas too.
	But the thing about indicas is sometimes you can go too far and then you just sit down.
	You're stuck.
unidentified		And then you're like, I can't go anywhere.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Some people say it's bullshit.
		Some people say that the idea of the differences between the two pots, it's nonsense.
		I feel like I feel a difference.
		With me, I definitely smoke at night, and I definitely feel like, maybe it's just because it is at night, but I definitely feel like...
		More demotivated, I guess.
		Like when I smoke an Indica where I'm just like, alright, I'm just gonna chill and not move my ass off the couch now.
		Are you an edibles guy?
		Can be, yeah.
		Depends on what time I have to wake up in the morning because sometimes they kind of fuck me up the next day too.
		They keep going.
		Yeah, man.
		But you're not high, you're just groggy as shit.
		So it all depends.
		Sometimes that's a weekend thing for me.
		So, what about recovery methods?
		Do you do ice baths?
		Do you do cryotherapy?
		Do you do sauna?
		I'm a sauna guy.
		Love sauna.
		Oh, yeah, man.
		I'm a giant fan of that.
		I do that every day.
		Yeah.
		Pretty much.
		Yeah.
		And then, you know, like some light cardio.
		Like, I have some assault equipment at home.
		Like, I'll just get on the bike and ride for like 20 minutes or just the treadmill or something like that.
		Yeah.
		Then I have the Normatec compression boots that I use as well.
		I have those too.
		Those are cool.
		Hyperice, the company that makes it, they make a lot of great shit.
		They really do.
		They make those massage balls that vibrate.
		Dude, that's a game changer.
		Those are game changers.
		Because they really vibrate.
		Yeah, no, I'd love they'd send us a whole rack out there with you know the handheld massagers and I love that rollers that massage Yeah, that's big.
		Yeah, and then like I try to get like regular body work done as often as possible, right?
		Like deep tissue like fascial stretch therapy stuff like that No for someone to do that to you that has to be a fucking event.
unidentified		It's a chore What kind of person do you get that does the deep tissue?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So the guy that works on me, he's been a buddy of mine for a long time.
		He actually works with the New York Rangers.
		Oh, there you go.
		But he's like full-on, full body sweat by the end of it.
		Just like dripping.
		It's a session.
		Those dudes, that's a workout in and of itself, right?
		Those dudes must get strong as fuck just from doing that.
		Oh, yeah.
		Because you've got to imagine all that moving with your hands.
		I bet their hands are strong as fuck, right?
		Oh, dude.
		I'll like...
		You know, even like me, just like working on somebody like five minutes and I'm like, all right, my thumbs are good.
		I'm out.
		Yeah.
		Even like I have something going on with my neck right now and I massage my own neck with my thumbs.
		I get in there with my thumb and I'm only good for like a couple of minutes.
		Yeah.
		That kind of super hard deep tissue massage or rolfing, that kind of stuff, that has a big effect.
		Huge.
		Huge.
		I love it.
		I dread it every time going into the session because I know what I'm getting myself into.
		But on the other end of it, it's just so helpful.
		How often do you do that?
		Up until recently, it was about once a week.
		And it was like, I'd be sore as shit, like, the next day.
		Like, just torn up.
		Yeah.
		But, you know, 48 hours later, you're like, alright, I'm good to go.
		I can rock and roll.
		I used to go to a guy who had like a metal piece.
		It was like this massage tool.
		It looked almost like a chisel.
		And he would get like his palm on it and he would work it into your muscles.
		That's spicy.
		Yeah, but I don't know if it's necessary.
		I don't think so.
		While this guy was doing that, I was like, is this...
		I feel like elbows work just as well.
		Did he invent this?
		I didn't really look into it that much, but I was thinking this might not be the best thing for you.
		But everybody's got their own sort of weird thing that they like to do to loosen up the tissue and the fascia.
		Yeah.
		You got to do something, right?
		Absolutely.
		Like, I have a buddy of mine.
		He's crazy.
		So he actually bear crawled the New York City Marathon.
		How long did that take?
		I think it took just under 24 hours.
unidentified		Pfft!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So he did it to raise money for men's mental health awareness and stuff like that.
unidentified		Holy shit!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he's actually training right now to consecutively climb the highest peak on every continent.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's his next thing that he's doing.
		Dude, bear crawling 100 yards is ridiculous.
		Yeah.
		And he did it for 26.2 miles.
		What does he look like?
		I mean, his name is Devin Levesque.
		Is he a savage?
		I mean, he's...
		He has to be.
		He looks like...
		I mean, he looks super athletic, played college football, like, lean, like...
		Is that him?
		That's him, yeah.
		Let me see some video of him bear crawling.
		Yeah, this is him finishing the bear crawl.
		Oh, so he's got some shit on his hands.
		Oh, yeah.
		He had pads on.
		Dude, he was doing it on concrete and asphalt.
		Look at this.
		What is his back like at the end?
		Oh, his hands are fucked up.
		He's like, my hands are still only 50%.
		Ah, look at that!
		He went flying off the treadmill.
		Look at this.
		Yeah.
		Watch this.
unidentified		Whee!
unidentified		Oh, my God, dude.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of this video here, does really intense training videos?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like he'll be on the treadmill and people are throwing med balls at him and stuff like that.
		He just saw some crazy shit.
		You know, it's the one thing about Instagram that is a little bit...
		It's not the one thing.
		There's a lot of things that are disturbing.
		But one of the things is that the need to one-up everything.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And the need for...
		Everybody has this...
		Well, I'm going to have this new method and it's going to be even...
		People are going to throw fucking flaming arrows at me while I'm deadlifting.
		You know, it's...
		Everyone's looking for some angle to get more attention.
		Yeah, I mean, that's my thing.
		Like, I'm not that guy on social media, right?
		Like, I just think a 900-pound deadlift should be cool as shit.
		You got a lot of attention just because of the name, like your Instagram name, World's Strongest Gay.
		People are like, okay, I'm in.
		Tell me what's up.
		Good and bad, right?
		I'm coming out with a children's book.
		And we showed the cover of it a couple weeks ago and the messages I got, people were like, you do strongman just to rape kids.
		I'm like, no man, I'm just trying to be cool.
		The book's not even really about being gay.
		It's honestly like, so it's kind of like a journey about my story and stuff like that.
		And once you accept yourself where you are, you can achieve awesome things.
		The fact that I have a husband is just a part of the story.
		It's not the main part of it, but that's all people get.
		But yeah, with an Instagram name like World's Strongest Gay, I'm lucky to get a lot of attention.
		What is the hate ratio on social media?
		I would say it's probably like...
		I would say it's like probably 75-25 positive.
		25 hate?
		Yeah, 25 hate.
		That's a lot.
		Yeah, it's a good amount.
		And how much of their hate is misspelled?
		A lot.
		Yeah, interesting, right?
unidentified		A lot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's a lot of non-English speaking people who have like, you know, zero posts and like four followers, you know, like, because I mean, I will say like, I'll creep on their pages and be like, who is this asshole?
		And like, it's nobody.
		Well, they might not even be real.
		No, they probably aren't.
		You know, there's a whole sort of ecosystem of these troll farms that exist.
		I don't know if you know this.
		Yeah, they...
		I've had it explained to me by several different people, and I'm trying not to fuck this up, but Rene DiResta was one of the ones that explained it the best.
		There's these troll farms, particularly in Russia, and they have them in Macedonia.
		They actually just found out that...
		Out of the top 20 Facebook Christian pages, 19 of them were run by troll farms.
		So all these pages that people think that they're getting in debates about whether or not abortion should be right, they're run by these troll farms in Eastern Europe.
		And what they're trying to do is get people to argue.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Russia has this crazy long-term game plan to destroy the United States.
		And one way they want to do it is by consistently feeding the online arguments.
		And one way they do that, like that one that I sent you, Jamie, that's 100% a troll farm.
		There's a bunch of different pages that are dedicated to different things.
		Like they have ones for Black Lives Matter.
		And you would say, oh, well, this is a page that's dedicated to racial injustice.
unidentified		Uh-uh.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, it's a page by Russians who just want to argue with people.
		So they'll say inflammatory things on these pages.
		Just to light the spark.
		And they will use their comments and they'll comment on like Christian pages or, you know, like people who want to bring back the fucking rebel flag, like that kind of shit.
		And then they'll get them to go to their page and talk shit.
		And it's like this little cat and mouse game.
		Damn.
		Yeah.
		They organized a Texas separatist meeting across the street from some Islamic freedom meeting.
		So they had them- What the hell?
		They do it on purpose.
		So they had these people across, like, fuck you, no, fuck you!
		And they're like angry at each other and neither one of them were in on it.
		They were both being manipulated by people that were in Russia.
		Damn!
		She said she found hundreds of thousands of posts, and there was thousands and thousands of pages that they were confirmed that had been run by these troll farms.
		That's insane.
		And hundreds of thousands of memes that she said were really funny.
		Like, some of these memes, like, you would read the memes, and it's hilarious.
		So, like, I think that with someone like you, who's an outspoken, you know, successful powerlifter, but also, like, proudly gay, They would use you as a person to attack because people would defend you and then people would see what they're doing and then it would cause this kind of friction and tension.
		That's what they're trying to do.
		I'm honored.
		That's great.
		They found you.
		Thank you.
		Appreciate it.
		It'd be nice to find out what's what, like who's who with these things, because I think there's quite a bit of them.
		I know anything political, anything that has to do with COVID-19 or anything that has to do with elections and anything that has to do with abortion rights, things that are like...
		Low-hanging fruit.
		Yeah, but big discussions where it's guaranteed to have people interacting about it.
		Divisiveness.
		They jump in on that shit.
		Yeah.
		Damn.
		So when you're getting these assholes posting at you that barely speak English, that's what's going on.
		That makes sense.
		Yeah.
		I mean, I'm sure there's like real bigots in there, but I think a lot of them are not.
		No.
		It's fucked.
		I mean, it helps my page interaction, so I'm cool with it.
		Push me up in the algorithm.
		And that's good for sponsors?
		It is, yeah.
		I mean, the more I'm being seen, the more I'm being viewed, the happier they are, so...
		It's a weird world.
		That's a world of a lot of athletes these days, right?
		It's like interacting with sponsors and social media.
		Yeah, I mean, it is like another full-time job, right?
		Because with each sponsorship comes dedicated posts and time that you have to spend with each of them, how you have to interact with the fans on your post for each sponsor, content creation and timing of stuff.
		It really is like a full job just to run social media stuff.
		Do you find that you think that people fuck with you a little bit just to try to get you to react?
		Yeah, but it doesn't really work.
		Yeah, you have a pretty thick skin.
		Yeah, I don't fucking care, man.
		Nothing bothers me at this point.
unidentified		That's good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's healthy.
		Thank God.
		I have friends that are, especially in the entertainment business, that read their stuff and then you can tell they're depressed.
		And they're like, what are you doing, man?
		You're reading mean comments?
		Stop reading that.
		Like, I see them, but I'm just like, all right, that sucks for you.
		Like, glad you feel that way.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate the comment.
		Is it mostly just anti-gay stuff?
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		I mean, that's pretty much it.
		What's ironic and what I think is funny is these people will follow a page called World's Strongest Gay.
		And then I post a picture of me and my husband, and I lose followers.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Like, every time.
		Every time I post a picture of me and Joey, I lose anywhere between 500 and 1,500 followers.
		Wow!
		It's pretty drastic.
		It's not just a couple.
		It's the Russians.
		But I'm like, fucker, what did you expect?
		I literally have gay in my name.
		Yeah.
		Well, being gay, I think it's illegal in Russia.
		Oh yeah, they legit have concentration camps in Chechnya for LGBTQ people.
unidentified		Whoa.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah.
		Concentration camps?
		Oh yeah, man.
		They're like picking people off the street.
		Whoa!
		It's insane.
		And what do they do with them in the concentration camps?
		They try to, like, re-educate them or something?
		I don't know.
		Usually kill them.
		Like, they go away.
		Pull that up.
		I don't know.
		There are some articles that I've seen about Chechnya concentration camps and stuff like that.
		In Chechnya in particular?
		Yeah.
		Wow.
		Yeah.
		It's fucking crazy.
		Yeah, we forget that the freedoms that we have here are not...
		This is not the whole world.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You see what's happening in China with the Uyghur Muslims being shipped off.
		It's crazy.
		And trains like...
		Yeah.
		Like, that's 2021. It's insane.
		That's happening right now.
		And that one basketball player, God bless that man, who is standing up.
		Yeah, that guy has fucking courage.
		Like, real, legit courage, because the NBA does not want to have anything to do with any of that stuff.
		What is this, the gay purge, real sports trailer on HBO? Oh, that's that guy.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, he's the head of Chechnya.
		He said this is not...
		Is he speaking in English or...?
		So yeah, he's doing what you're saying.
		Okay, let's see.
		We don't have any gays.
		If there are any, take them to Canada.
		Oh, shit.
		Praise be to God.
		Take them far away from us to purify our blood.
		If there are any here, take them.
		So this is on HBO Real Sports.
		We're talking to that guy from Chechnya about gays.
		Interesting that it's on Real Sports.
		Well, that guy's involved in a lot of sports in Chechnya, and he sponsors a lot of MMA fighters.
		They made it up.
		They're devils.
		They're for sale.
		They're subhuman.
		Yeah, man.
		This is crazy.
		Goddamn them for slandering us.
		Wow.
		They will have to answer to the Almighty for this.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
		That guy, he hosts a lot of big-time MMA fighters.
		He sponsors them and gives them a lot of money and then flies them to Chechnya.
		I won't be going there anytime soon.
		I don't think you should.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		There's also a documentary they made called Welcome to Chechnya that came out last year that says it's about a group of activists taking on this.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It's on HBO also.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's available now?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it out?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It came out the end of last year, about a year ago.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the world is not, you know, it's not a perfect place.
		And as good as we have it here, it could be a lot better.
		Yeah.
		But we have to understand that this is, you know, we're living in 2021 and we assume the whole world is...
		Like us.
		As free as we are.
		To be fair, like, it still happens to me, right?
		Like, walking down the street holding my hand with my husband, like, people will scream faggot at us out the car window.
		You know, like, it happened at the Arnold in Columbus, Ohio.
		It's happened in Massachusetts, like...
		I'm also not afraid to hold my husband's hand in public because the fact those people aren't going to stop and actually confront me.
		One of my favorite things you said when some guy was saying something, you go, I'm stronger than you and I suck dick.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's true, you know?
		It's funny, though.
		It's very funny.
		It's a sad thing when people care what other people are doing, if it's not affecting you.
		I don't understand that.
		I think it's a horrendous weakness, like, to care about what some...
		And I think it probably needs to be labeled that way, to let them understand.
		If you care about two people that clearly want to do something that you don't like, whatever the fuck it is, whether it's ballroom dancing or whether it's whatever it is, if they're gay, if they're trans, whatever it is, whatever it is, why do you care?
		No effect on you whatsoever.
		Zero effect on you.
		It's like, why put that much energy into something?
		Right.
		That you have no control over.
		But it's also, if you have lived long enough, you must have a friend that's gay.
		And once you have a friend that's gay and you talk to them, you realize like, oh, this is just how you are.
		You're born gay.
		This is not a choice.
		No.
		You're just, you're gay.
		And I, you know, I got lucky that when I was a little kid, when I was seven years old, we lived in San Francisco.
		So from seven to 11, I lived in San Francisco.
		During the hippie era, the Vietnam War, and my next door neighbors were this gay couple that my aunt would get naked, they would smoke pot and play bongos with the next door neighbors.
		I think you mentioned this last time.
		And that sounds like the coolest fucking afternoon in the world.
		It was interesting.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So that was how I grew up.
		And it wasn't until I was 11 that I realized people don't like gay people.
		I moved to Florida.
		And when we moved to Florida, my friend Candy, his dad was this Cuban guy.
		And his name is Candido.
		They call him Candy.
		And he threw the newspaper on the table.
		He's fucking mad.
		And he was like, I'm like, what's wrong?
		And he was pissed that gay people were wanting to marry each other.
		Like, that was his thing.
		I remember being 11 going, what the fuck?
		Imagine, this is a grown man.
		Yeah.
		Like, I'm an 11-year-old kid.
		I'm a little kid.
		And I'm like, this is so crazy.
		Like, why do you care?
		That's wild.
		It's wild.
		But people get taught that, and I think they get taught that somehow or another the tolerance of that, like not just not being gay, but being tolerant of people who are gay makes you weak or makes society weak or like that fucking guy.
		Yeah.
		You know, that kind of shit.
		Like that it's somehow or another manliness and gayness are mutually exclusive.
		Yeah, which is crazy to me.
		Makes no sense.
		You know, like, I mean, I said before, like, I compete in, like, one of the most hyper-masculine sports in the world.
		Arguably the most.
unidentified		And I'm gay as fuck.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, like, come on!
		It's arguably the most, right?
		Like, the strongest man on the planet?
		There's some fighting.
		Like, you know, like, it's like you're either beating the shit out of somebody, or you're picking up A rock.
		Or, you know, just some like crazy Neanderthal shit.
		There's very few openly gay fighters.
		Very few.
		Emile Griffith was a famous...
		I believe he was a welterweight champion.
		And he had a fight against...
		I think it was Benny Perrette.
		See if you can look this up.
		But Perrette was taunting him.
		During the the training and the weigh-ins and the press conferences about him being gay and he killed him in the ring He beat him to death.
		I love that like actually or sleep.
		Oh shit.
		I don't love that I mean actually beat him to death Yeah, and I think if I remember correctly it really affected him and he never really fought That happens a lot to fighters like when they kill somebody they're never really the same again.
		Yeah, I mean that's what's it been like Benny Perrette and Emile Griffith.
		Yeah, so 29 unanswered punches.
		Yeah, see if you can find video of it.
		It was a ferocious beating.
		See, Emile Griffith was a serious boxer.
		I mean, world champion boxer.
		But this guy had taunted him about being gay.
		And he fought fucking ferociously.
		But that's a rare case, right?
unidentified		It is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I don't even know if he was openly gay.
		You know, it was just known that he was gay.
		But there's...
		Yeah, this is the end.
unidentified		That's, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And this is just fucking...
		To be fair, the ref should have stepped in at some point.
		Well, this is the 50s, bro.
		Oh, true.
		Look at this.
		The ref eventually did, but look.
		He died.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a wrap.
		Yeah.
		That's a rough one.
		That's crazy.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's...
		Damn.
		But there's not a lot of openly gay fighters.
		And I wonder how many are gay.
		They just have to hide it because of the macho sort of thing about, you know, fighting culture.
		Yeah, I mean, that's...
		We look at any pro sport, right?
		Like, there's a lot of guys in the NFL that come out after they've retired.
		I mean, you know, this is the first year in 2021 that we actually have an openly gay NFL player that's actively playing.
		Do you think that in your lifetime, have you seen the attitudes about gay people become more accepting and more relaxed?
		Yeah, I think it's more accepting, more relaxed, but I also think the other side also feels that they have a louder voice now, right?
		Because, like, as the LGBTQ plus community, as we are more accepted and it's, you know, becoming, quote unquote, normalized, all the other side of the spectrum feel that like, oh, well, like, If they're being accepted everywhere, like, I need to be louder about my stance and make my stance known, you know?
		So I think, like, there's this, like, weird dichotomy between the two where it's like, yeah, as, you know, the rights are becoming more equal and, you know, LGBTQ marriage is legal, you know, nationwide and all that stuff.
		I think, like, the people that hate on it so much also feel that they have a louder voice because of that as well.
		And is most of that hate, you think, religious-based?
		Yeah.
		Most of it, right?
		I would say that's 90% of the hate that I got online from real people.
		Because it gives them license, right?
		Like, they think that they're getting the word from God.
		And that's, you know, that's something that I never understood, right?
		Because, like, religious freedom, I'm all for.
		Like, follow whatever religion you want.
		Like, I don't care.
		But it's like, religion is supposed to be when you're following it, hey, I can't do that.
		It's not because I'm following this religion, you can't do that.
		You know, your religion has no bearing on me and how I live my life.
		Right.
		And that's the thing that I also find that's so funny, right?
		Like, everybody keeps saying, like, oh, the LGBTQ community is pushing the gay agenda.
		They're turning kids gay and stuff like that.
		I'm like, listen, I've never gone door to door and knocked on somebody and said, like, hey, have you sucked a dick lately?
		You really should try.
		It's fantastic.
		Right?
		Like, and then you have religions literally pandering to people for people to go into religion.
		Like, that is part of their job in the religion.
		Has there ever been a study done on kids being openly gay?
		Like, and whether or not it has shifted over time?
		Like, is there...
		I don't know.
		I mean, how would you ever do this, right?
		Like, is there a percentage, a standardized percentage of people that just happen to be gay?
		Like, what is the standard?
		Like, what do you think?
		How many people are gay?
		Is it one out of 10?
		Is it one out of 100?
		What is it?
		I mean, I would say it's probably in the 15 to 20 range.
		15 to 20 out of 100?
		Every one out of 15 to 20. Oh, one out of 15 to 20?
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm just ballparking there.
		I don't really know percentages of LGBTQ people.
		I know more percentages of like...
		You know, the percentage of teens that experience bullying in high school.
		Right.
		For being openly gay.
		And how much, you know, the percentage of teens that, like, attempt suicide because they're being bullied because they're gay versus their heterosexual peers and stuff like that.
		That's where a lot of my knowledge lands, not as opposed to, like...
		And is it extraordinarily high in comparison?
		Yeah, it's like 49% of teens have, like, contemplated suicide because of bullying.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because of homosexuality?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right?
		And then, you know, that percentage drops drastically just by having one accepting adult in their life.
		Oh, wow.
		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		One person that accepts an LGBTQ plus teen can dramatically decrease the chance of suicide.
		So when they say that people are pushing the gay agenda, if there was statistics that show there's no change at all in the percentage of people that are gay, it would be interesting, right?
		So you should point to it.
		I think people think there are more gay people now only because more people are more comfortable with coming out, right?
		Right.
		You hear stories about, like, I just saw a story about the other day, like, a man came out when he was 73 years old.
unidentified		Oh.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because he never felt comfortable to do so.
		Yeah.
		You know, imagine what kind of life that is.
		And, like, I am so happy that he did finally come out, but, like, what kind of life is that living?
		I lived it for 22 years and I was fucking miserable.
		There's an animated commercial for Doritos where...
		What was that fucking movie where the guy...
		Where...
		Was it Coco?
		The Day of the Dead movie?
		Remember that movie?
		Did you ever see Coco?
		It's really good.
		It's a great movie.
		It's an animated Day of the Dead movie, but in this one, in this commercial for Doritos, Grandpa is dead, and he comes back to life.
		I don't know, he's a ghost or something, but he comes back and he introduces his partner.
unidentified		Ugh.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he's holding hands with another grandpa, and some people are freaking out.
		They don't know what to do, but the grandma was happy because she said, I thought you were going to be alone forever.
		I just got chills.
		That's wild.
		Let's play it.
		This is...
		It's interesting to see them, like, stick their neck out and make something like this.
		Here it is.
		Because people were mad at it.
		The pages that I saw, people were mad at it.
		The same kind of people that were mad at Lil Nas X. See?
		So it's the Coco animation.
		This is Coco, right?
		These people?
		I think so, yes.
		So they go to the grave, and they're putting things...
		What is it, like tortilla chips?
		He says, dear brother, I miss you.
		Okay, so it's the brother.
		And so look, he comes back to life.
unidentified		And they're eating Doritos at his grave.
unidentified		He says, hello family, how are you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he says, Alberto.
		He takes his hat off and then there's a guy with him.
		And there's, who is he?
		This is Mario, my partner.
		And they're holding hands.
unidentified		And she says, what a miracle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I thought he would be alone forever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's amazing.
unidentified		Aww.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I love that.
		So there you go.
		That's Doritos.
		I love that.
		I'm going to get Doritos today.
		Yeah, I mean, it's a cute little...
		It's never too late to be your true self.
		And that's, you know, I kind of came up with, like, a new mantra.
		It's like, always proud, never scared.
		Right?
		Like, it's just that simple.
		And when you're talking about, like, teens in general, like, the fact that, like, you know, growing up, you know, I'm not that old.
		I'm 29, right?
		And even me growing up, it's like I never saw openly gay athletes ever So that automatically, as a kid who's questioning their sexuality, it makes it seem impossible.
		Right, because they're not around.
		Yeah, and that's why people are freaking out about Marvel having LGBTQ plus characters now and all this stuff.
		And it's like, there's no agenda trying to be pushed.
		They're just trying to show that gay people in our community exist.
		And having that one character that some little kid who's questioning who they are can relate to can literally save them.
		I mean, it's absolutely unbelievable the kind of impact that has because growing up, you see heterosexual couples all the time, right?
		Like freaking watching Rugrats.
		You know, there's mom and dad.
		And, you know, people have an issue with the fact that the cartoons have like a dad and a dad or a mom and a mom.
		And it's like, no, like there's no issue.
		It's just...
		Normalizing it, making it real.
		I think what people are concerned with is that these corporations are capitalizing on this sort of openness and like being woke and open-minded and acceptance of LBGTQ to sell stuff.
		So the cynical perspective is they're just piggybacking on this new change in our culture to sell things.
		And you know what?
		In my mind, that's fine.
		Let them think that.
		Because if that keeps one kid from committing suicide, it's worth it.
		Yeah, that makes sense.
		You know, like, let them make a couple extra bucks.
		Right.
		At least this kid's not dead.
		I do, like, the woke agenda in corporations is slippery.
		Because for the most part, they don't give a fuck about you.
		No, 100%.
		Yeah.
		I mean, that's why I think Pride Month is kind of a scam.
		Well, they must make money on it.
		Oh, there's a shit ton of money.
		You know, but it's like Pride shouldn't just be during June, right?
		Like it should be a year-long thing that we celebrate.
		Like Black History Month shouldn't really be a month.
		You know, it's like, God, I can't even imagine the money that corporations make on rainbows in June.
		Oh my god.
		It's gotta be disgusting.
		Congratulations to you guys for taking the rainbow.
		Hey, that's what we're here for.
		You own it now.
unidentified		Oh, fuck yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The leprechauns can go fuck themselves.
		They have no claim to the rainbow now.
		It used to be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, right?
		No, no.
		No, now it's the gays.
		Like, do you think that more gay people buy Lucky Charms than any other cereal?
		It's an interesting one.
		We've talked a lot about studies we could perform, Joe, and this is another one that we could jump into now.
		I would like to find out whether or not there is a standard number of people.
		If people were completely free and there was no hesitation coming out as gay, it was a completely accepted thing in our culture, I wonder what the numbers would be.
		I think it would be pretty substantial.
		I bet it would be a lot higher because I know a lot of guys who are suspect.
		Yeah.
		Married with kids and you just wonder.
		Doesn't mean anything.
		Yeah, I know.
		There's a lot of that, right?
		Talked about it last time, man.
		I was in a relationship with a girl for a year and a half before I realized that that sucked.
		Yeah, I had a neighbor when I lived in California, and they were in their 60s.
		And one guy was gay his whole life.
		He came out when he was young.
		But the other guy, whole family, the whole deal, married, children, miserable, and then met this guy and realized, like, I can't do this anymore.
		And that breaks my heart, dude.
		Yeah.
		Like, that's terrible, right?
		It's horrible.
		I'm fortunate that I came to the realization when I was 22, which is still kind of late.
		But you have the courage to just step up and accept it and not hide it.
		Exactly.
		And that's the problem, is there's so many guys hiding it.
		When I was a kid in Boston, you would always hear about guys meeting in rest stops.
		Yeah.
		And people thought it was funny, you know, that, like, you would go to rest stops and guys would try to hook up in rest stops.
		And I was like, yeah, but imagine being one of those guys.
		Imagine, like, this is where you have to go.
		That's what you have to resort to.
		You got to go to a rest stop?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And somehow or another hope that everybody got the memo?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because this is before the internet.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So I don't even know how everybody found out that gay folks would meet at the rest stop.
		But it was like a known thing.
		Stop at the Pike in Brockton, you know, like...
		Like, why?
		I mean, how many times did they, you know, it was a trial and error thing?
		Yeah.
		Do you remember that senator?
		It turned out to be like he was an anti-gay senator, too.
		Which one?
		There are so many of them.
		It happens all the time.
		It's like, oh, a senator or a priest.
		It's like, oh, found on Grindr, paying for guys.
		Like, come on, man.
		I know.
		It's like such a self-loathing thing.
		It's so sad.
		It is, and it's just like, I don't know, like, maybe...
		I had such a positive experience coming out where it made me realize, oh shit, no, this is what it means to be happy.
		This is what it means to not wake up every day and pretend to be somebody you're not.
		Because that's exhausting.
		Walking around every day, like thinking about how to talk, how to walk, how to interact with your friends even, right?
		Like just a simple conversation.
		They're like, oh, like that chick's hot.
		And you're like, yeah.
		And you're like, no, you are like, you know?
		Yeah.
		I had this one friend of mine that was gay and was in the closet forever.
		And then he eventually came out, but I don't talk to him anymore.
		I haven't seen him in like 15 years.
		And I found out he came out afterwards.
		But back when I knew him, he would talk about girls, and it would be like, if I taught you how to say something in French, but you didn't know French, like if I taught you how to say the words, je ne sais quoi, but you didn't really know what you were saying?
		I had no idea.
		That's what it was like.
		So he was talking about making out with this girl, and I was like, come again?
		I'm like, what happened?
		I'm just getting fresh, especially like 40-year-old virgin and Steve Crow being like, yeah, they felt like bags of sand when he's talking about a girl's tits.
		I never saw that movie.
		Oh, it's pretty funny.
		I've heard it's really funny.
		That's one of those movies that it slipped me by and I never caught up.
		But this guy was this handsome fella who was like a model.
		He was like 6'3", really good-looking guy, real fit.
		He was a boxer.
		And he would talk about girls.
		And he had this girlfriend.
		And the girl always looked confused.
		Because he was, too.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So the girl was like, you know, she had this look on her face like, how come he doesn't fuck me?
		You know, like one of them looks.
		He doesn't want to.
		Yeah.
		And he would talk about girls.
		And it would be like, what?
		Wait a minute.
unidentified		Huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And eventually it came out.
		It's so sad to hear these stories of these guys that just stay closeted for so long just because they think that's what they have to do.
		Well, being a guy like you, who is a well-recognized, respected person in this manly environment of strong man, it's gotta help.
		There's gotta be a lot of young guys who find you and find comfort in the fact, first of all, you have not just the courage to come out, but to be super open and positive about it and proud of it, and you don't give a fuck.
		You know, and so it seems like someone could see you and go, I think I could do that too.
		Yeah, you know, it's really cool because, again, like, I mean, you see me on Instagram, right?
		Like, I'm just like, yeah, fuck this.
		This is who I am.
		Yeah, you're just yourself.
		And, you know, to do that and show everybody that, you know, your sexuality has absolutely no bearing on anything that you do.
		Or who you are is really cool.
		Because I do say, like, I've gotten messages from, like, kids that have contemplated suicide.
		You know, and one kid, literally, it gets me every time, man.
		The first one I ever got was a 16-year-old who said he had literally contemplated suicide for weeks.
		And was almost to the point of going through with it.
		And then he found my Instagram page.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, like, that's just like, it's insane to me.
		That's amazing.
		Because it's just like, just by me.
		Being me online, it made this kid realize that his life was worth something.
		And I've gotten a handful of those messages, and I say it time and time again, those messages that I've gotten from kids like that outweigh every single fucking negative comment or message I've ever gotten in my life.
		Those don't matter at that point.
		And that's why, like, I'm such a big proponent of like, you know, like just today I put on my Instagram story that there was an openly gay soccer player in Australia that just came out.
		And now he's officially, it's the first openly gay professional soccer player, like at the top tier level.
		And, like, I always say, like, that stuff's so important because, like, representation really does matter.
		You know, for kids, you know, shit, my husband was a soccer player, right?
		And up until this year, there wasn't an openly gay one at the top level.
		So, you know, for kids to see somebody that looks like them, you know, achieving things that up until that point they seemed were impossible, really does, it matters more than anybody else can really imagine.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We were talking about openly gay people in the world of fighting, and I should clarify, I only mean men.
		There are quite a few openly gay women, including the UFC dual champion.
		She's a champion, Amanda Nunes, the greatest fighter of all time.
		The greatest female fighter of all time is openly gay, as is her wife is also a fighter.
		There's quite a few different top-level UFC female fighters that are gay.
		And that's just sports in general, right?
		Like, look at Megan Rapinoe, Sue Bird.
		You don't get as much grief.
		Because I think there's a correlation between athleticism and masculinity.
		And I think with people, they automatically assume, and it's an incorrect assumption, that lesbian women are more masculine.
		So therefore, it's okay for them to be in sports.
		Or they associate gay men to be feminine, therefore they shouldn't be athletic.
		Right?
		So I think there's that connection that happens.
		Right, so when a guy is in the NFL and comes out as gay, or a guy like you is a strong man, comes out as gay, then people gotta go, oh, these assumptions, they don't hold up.
		Exactly, right?
		And that's a big thing, is like, you know, like, I use the hashtag on social media, it's like breaking the stereotype, right?
		Like, kind of reforming what people think gay is.
		Because they try to put everybody in this box, where it's all of us wearing, like, you know, booty shorts, high heels, and nails.
		You don't ever?
		You know, I will say, we were at a drag show one time and one of our friends came up to us and she's like hyping up my husband.
		She's like, you should do drag.
		You'd be gorgeous.
		Oh my God, you'd be so great.
		Without skipping a beat, looks at me and goes, you'd be a very awkward woman.
unidentified		I was like, fuck you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, that hurts!
		Yeah, that's rude.
		So no, I don't do that.
		I've been pseudo-put up in drag once, and it wasn't a cute look.
		Well, you don't have to be in drag to have booty shorts.
		That's true.
		You know, like cut-off jeans?
		I mean, I am competing this weekend.
		Dude, if you compete in cut-off jeans, I mean, that's like subtle.
		Is it?
		I mean, kinda.
		You mean the rainbow leggings aren't?
		The rainbow leggings are less subtle than booty shorts, I think.
		Might be a new poll I have to put up on my Instagram tonight.
		Rainbow leggings, though, it's still standard clothing.
		It's just different colors.
		If you wear booty shorts, like cut-off shorts, there's something about cut-off shorts, right?
		I was going to say, but I feel like that's kind of a masculine thing because it's always associated with lumberjacks and flannel.
		Cut-off shorts can be manly if they go about down to the knees.
		Okay.
		Then men can wear cut-off shorts.
		Mid-thigh and higher, not so much.
		As soon as you start creeping up above the knees, the higher you get, the gayer it is.
		Which is really weird, right?
unidentified		It is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It is weird.
		I mean, that means basketball in the 70s was gay as fuck.
		Gay as fuck.
		Yeah, like Larry Bird.
		Gay as fuck with them shorts.
		Totally.
		Those shorts, they have like, I mean, they basically had their nuts hanging out of those shorts.
		Their ass was eating them the entire game.
		Yeah, they went right up to the top.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, if you had those with cut-off jeans, that would be a real issue.
		Might not be functional for Strongman, though.
		Yeah, look at those things.
		Look at Kareem!
		I mean...
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of leg.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of leg.
		Yeah, that's how they did it back then.
		See if you can find Larry Bird.
		There he is.
		Look at it.
		Yeah, a lot of leg.
		Literally just under the cheek.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You could not do that.
		People would be upset at you.
		Yeah.
		Like, what is wrong with your fucking shorts?
		Well, I just like how the NBA, like...
unidentified		Look at those guys.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jesus Christ.
		The NBA, like, over-exaggerated in the 90s, and their shorts were, like, down to mid-chin.
		Yeah, why'd they do that?
		I don't know.
		That's weird.
		Like, they're making up for the short shorts in the 70s, so...
		You know what's weird that never caught on?
		It's kilts.
		People started wearing kilts for a while.
		It was a thing.
		People thought they were badass with kilts.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that's coming back.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jamie has kilts.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		They actually just call them skirts.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Men that wear skirts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Two of the guys that are competing here this weekend, they're from Scotland.
		They're brothers.
		The Stoltman brothers.
		That's different.
		They'll typically compete in kilts.
		They're literally from the highlands in Scotland, though.
		Yeah, they have lineage.
		You're allowed to wear skirts.
		They're really badass.
		One of them just won World's Strongest Man this past year, and the other one won Europe's Strongest Man.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which is pretty cool.
		That is pretty cool.
		Yeah, it's funny, right?
		Like, shorts are okay if the legs are in, like, a tube, right?
		But if the legs are not in a tube, I'm not okay.
		But if you're from Scotland, we're cool with it.
		Do you have bagpipes?
		Okay, you can wear a skirt.
		You know, like, these fucking weird rules.
		It's insane.
		The weird stuff to me, the anti-gay stuff, is the religious stuff.
		Because, like, what was the root of that?
		Like, what was the root of homophobia in religion?
		Like, why does it exist?
		Well, I mean, people always quote that one quote that it's like, men cannot lay with man as he lies with woman or whatever the fuck it is.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But I guess according to that, lesbians are fine.
		Yeah, exactly.
		Right?
		Like, he doesn't say anything about women laying with women.
		Right.
		So.
		Also, it's only laying down.
		Like, what if he stands up and lets a guy suck his dick?
		I mean, that's not gay, actually.
		We found a loophole.
		It's not gay.
		Yeah.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Two chains.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, 2 Chainz's got a skirt.
		Looks good.
		There you go.
		Yeah, maybe he'll bring it back.
		I mean, I will say, I do love what Billy Porter does on the red carpets now.
unidentified		Vin Diesel.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Vin Diesel's got a skirt on?
		Oh, yeah.
		Okay.
		That was back in the day.
		03. 03?
		Yeah.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		He was also in Scotland, so...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, was he?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I guess, yeah, I didn't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that is like a skirt.
		That's not a kilt.
		That's leather.
		Yeah, it's like...
		Yeah.
		I mean, unless that's a butcher's apron...
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		See, like, let men wear skirts movement.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The let men wear skirts movement.
		I mean, Harry Styles has been doing it lately.
		He wears a whole dress, right?
		He does, yeah.
		Same with Billy Porter, you know, just like showing up on the red carpet in these fabulous gowns.
		Yeah.
		It's weird that we have clothes that are specifically, like, women can wear so much more.
		There's so many more options, right?
		I mean, hey, wouldn't it be great to be able to wear a kilt and feel a breeze?
		Yes.
		Or a skirt?
		Or no, because if there was like a dog attacking you, that would bother me.
		There's a lot of...
		It should bother you more because you only have one nut.
		Yeah, I don't want to lose that one.
		Yeah.
		To a dog?
		No.
		You know, you want to be like tucked up and...
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Covered in but here's the thing like a woman could wear a shirt like yours with no no sleeves and go to a Really nice restaurant.
		Yeah, but if a man went to a really nice restaurant with us with a tank top on they kick them right out I used to work at a prep school and the faculty had to abide by a dress code during the school day men had to wear Shirt and tie Um, women had to wear professional dress.
		That's all it said.
		Right?
		So like, I couldn't show up to work in a polo and dress pants or khakis, but a female teacher could.
		Full sleeves, right?
		She can have full, like, no sleeves, arms out.
		Totally fine.
		But, like, I have to wear a full button-down dress shirt and a tie.
		It's strange.
		Yeah.
		Like, it doesn't make any sense.
		It would be one thing if everyone had to wear a suit.
		Like, the women had to dress like Hillary Clinton.
		Totally.
		And the men had to wear suits.
		Makes sense.
		Yeah, that makes sense.
		But the fact that women...
		Can throw an oversized sweater on with a belt and be good.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's fucking weird, man.
		Yeah.
		It is weird.
		I'm jealous about it.
		I'm not even mad.
		I wish I had that kind of freedom.
		We should all have that kind of freedom.
		Hell yeah.
		But dress codes are very strange.
		They are.
		And a lot of times they're racist.
		Like when they say you can't wear track suits.
		Okay, who's wearing track suits?
		Yeah.
		What's going on there?
		Yeah.
		And by the way, why do you care?
		Do-rags.
		That's a thing.
		Do-rags?
		Oh yeah.
		People can't wear a do-rag inside.
		But can you wear a hat inside the places where you can't wear a do-rag?
		I don't know.
		I just saw the do-rag thing and got pissed off about it.
		One place wouldn't allow white t-shirts.
		But you wear a black one?
		Yeah.
		It's more dressy.
		Classy.
		Doesn't make sense.
		No.
		But codes of what clothes to wear are odd.
		Your image is the image of the actual restaurant itself.
		If you have an image, it should be your curtains and your silverware.
		It should not be what the people are wearing.
		They're interchangeable.
		They come, they go.
		Isn't that kind of cool that you have this variety of life?
		Like, look, there's the guys in the suits over there, and those guys over there are dressed like basketball players, and those guys over there look like they might be rock stars.
		That's great.
		Who gives a shit?
		I once went for a job, and they told me that I was going to have to shave my mohawk because it was unprofessional.
		What was the job?
		It was an athletic trainer at a prep school.
		Your Mohawk would be unprofessional?
		Yeah, and I asked them, I was like, so what bearing does my Mohawk have on my ability to do the job?
		They couldn't give me an answer.
		They were just more afraid of the image of me having a Mohawk when they have, you know, multi-million dollar families that are donating to their school and thought that that might look bad for them.
		I didn't shave my mohawk.
		Good for you.
		But again, who gives a fuck?
		Why?
		Why do you give a fuck?
		Listen, I'm gonna tape the ankle exactly how I tape the ankle, regardless if I have a mohawk on my head.
		It's just...
		I mean, it's weird, because you could shave your whole head, right?
		Yeah.
		So that's okay.
		What if you decided to shave your head to look like a guy who was bald, where you grew hair on the side and then shaved the top?
		I think it'd be fine.
		Okay.
		But if you shaved the sides and left the hair on the top...
		That's not okay.
	It's okay, but you have to have a certain amount of it.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	You can't have just a strip.
	The two-inch strip across the top of my head is not okay.
	It's weird.
	If you were looking at us from afar, if you're trying to examine human beings with no context and trying to examine our culture without any real references, you'd be like, what are they doing?
	Well, I mean, you've said this before.
	Aliens would think we're weird as fuck.
	Oh, yeah.
	There's no shot.
	No.
	They'd be like, what the fuck is up with these people?
	The arbitrary rules.
	The thing that drives me the most crazy is women's shoes.
	It's so bizarre watching women hobble around in these strange things.
	Chuck Palahniuk was here yesterday and he was explaining that it's like when women are having sex, their toes point in the way that they are.
	I don't know if this is true or not.
unidentified		What the hell?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And the way they are with these high heels like the idea of like your toes being down and your heels being up and this like You know, sort of represents coitus or, you know, recreates coitus.
		That's wild.
		But I don't think that's true.
		I would never even connect the two.
		I think it just makes your butt look better.
		I think, yeah, your calves and your ass look great.
		Yeah, I think that's what it is.
		I think girls figure that out.
		And it also accentuates the length of the legs.
		Yeah.
		But people always have these weird theories as to why things became standard.
		Because if you go back in time, It was illegal for women to show any leg at all.
		And back in the Victorian era, they used to cover the legs on pianos.
		Yeah.
		Because they thought that people would get aroused by piano legs.
		Like, they would literally cover them with, like, a dress.
		That's crazy.
		Like, they would make cloth to cover the legs.
		Like, how...
		I mean, I'm thinking, like, with...
		No, Victorians didn't cover up table legs because they were too sexy.
		Oh!
		An admittedly adorable myth.
		I think, like, with the heels thing, my thought process...
		I learned it from Terrence McKenna.
		Terrence, you did me wrong.
		My thought process with the heels thing was, like, it elevated women.
		Yeah.
		Right?
		Because, like...
		Physically, they're typically shorter than men.
		So in the workplace, it brought them physically higher to their level so they wouldn't be looked down upon.
		I think they were done before the workplace, though.
		I think the high heel thing was back before women worked.
		Yeah, not true.
		Why did they cover the legs?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sorry.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I was going back to the high heel thing.
unidentified		Let me see.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It came from, I guess it could be a journal, of someone that traveled in 1839 and was repeating a story of something Oh, that's where the rumor came from?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So what was the reason why they covered those legs?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What does it say?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to skim real fast.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For sure, though, back in those days, women had to cover most of their bodies.
		Yeah, I mean, they would look like floor-length skirts, like, yeah, yeah.
		And slowly but surely, the culture shifted.
		But that's what's weird, right?
		It is.
		It's like human beings biologically are essentially the same as they were then.
		So what is it about people, and what is it about our ideas of what's acceptable and not acceptable, where you have to cover things up, or you don't cover things up, or things shift and change?
		You know what's always freaked me out?
		Volleyball.
		Volleyball is the only sport where girls have to dress like a hoe.
		Well, and I love that this year at the Olympics, the handball teams and the volleyball teams protested that.
		Oh, the handball teams dressed like hoes, too?
		I think it was.
		Yeah, yeah.
		When I say hoes, I say it with all due respect, ladies.
		They had to wear, like, it was very short spandex shorts.
		And it was the same with volleyball.
		And these teams protested that and, like, were literally being fined per day when they would compete, not wearing the official dress code.
		But all of them said, you know, fuck you.
		We don't need to be sexualized to play our sport.
		Well, here's the rub, though.
		When they compete in the Olympics against, like, the Egyptian team or any Muslim country, those countries, the women wear the job, fully covered, yeah.
		That's crazy.
		That's crazy, because they're allowed to compete under this sort of religious exemption.
		So is it the Olympics that's doing this, or is it the United States Olympic team that's telling them about what dress codes are?
		I don't know.
		I know it was another country that started the protest in terms of the dress code for these sports.
		So it must be the Olympics.
		Yeah.
		But they have a religious exemption.
		Yeah.
		That is so weird to me.
		It is so strange.
		Religious exemptions are so weird.
		It's like, what are you doing?
		Are there boundaries around the religious exemption?
		Could we just say, oh no, you have to give proof of the religion?
		Yeah.
		That's a good question.
		And by the way, what if you start your own religion?
		Well, that's where I was kind of going with it.
		My religion requires me to wear lingerie everywhere.
		Yeah.
		Garter belts.
		You have to wear garter belts in the religion.
		Yep.
		That's a weird one, right?
		The straps.
		That is.
		But gay folks, you guys don't have lingerie.
		No, it's like jockstraps and shit like that.
		Yeah, there's no thing that indicates you're interested in sexy time.
		Like if a girl comes out of the bathroom...
		Here's the thing.
		At the end of the day, we're dudes.
		Exactly.
		Same physiological response as a straight dude versus a gay dude.
		There's no need for playing games.
		No, no.
		It's like, alright, let's go.
		Yeah.
		That's just it at the end of the day.
		It's funny because that is what lingerie is, right?
		If a lady comes out of the bathroom and she's changed into some skimpy little outfit with frilly lace and everything, the guy's like, oh.
	Time to get it on.
	It looks like someone's ready.
	With gay couples, it's like, oh, you're home?
	Cool.
	Oh, you're breathing.
	Let's do it.
	You know, like...
	Yeah, we don't have to...
	There's no dance about that.
	Yeah, but...
	Does there, like, romance and, like, the thrill of the chase that's involved that's the same?
	Because, like, women like romance.
	They like to be, like, romanced and they, like...
	You just slowly get into it.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it depends on, like, the mood, right?
		Like, I think that's with any couple, right?
		Like, it's like...
		I'm sure with straight people, like, sometimes they just want to get down and dirty and go after it.
		And other times there's, like, foreplay and there's more to it, you know, like in that romance.
		Same thing with...
		Generally when it's foreplay, it's the ladies' idea, sir.
		I'll tell you this.
		I'm sure you've had sex with women before, but I'm going to tell you as a guy who does it on a regular basis...
		It's been a few years.
		What does it say?
		Oh, the leg thing?
		Okay, here it is.
		While it's true that during this era some people covered parts of their furniture, they did so in an effort to keep their valuables from being damaged.
		Oh, okay.
		Not to hide the alleged sexuality of a dining table.
		Victorians liked embellishment.
		Cloth dye was the boldest, most adhesive it had ever been, so it wasn't unusual to see all manner of decorated cloth draped on furniture.
		Okay.
		Interesting.
		Interesting.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Also, they would do...
		Then it turned, because I think they were making...
		See, this part says...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay, pointing out the concept of covering furniture legs for modesty was actually a dig on the perceived stuck-up prudishness of Americans.
		Interesting.
		I've always learned so much here.
		Me too.
		I've learned so much accidentally.
		I was having a conversation with someone the other day, and they brought up something, and I said, well, actually, it's because of this.
		Some weird, obscure information that I had.
		And she was like, how the fuck do you know that?
		And I'm like, I don't know.
		Just in a Rolodex up there.
		So many people.
		But I forget things, too.
		Someone sent me a clip of a conversation that I had with Graham Hancock.
		And it was about the Amazon and what happened to the people in the Amazon.
		And as I was watching the clip, I was like, oh, I completely forgot about this.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's probably got to be one of the coolest parts of what you do.
		For sure.
		I mean, that's like when I tell people that I come on and I talk to you, I was like, you know, it's...
		I mean, I think I mentioned it to you before, too.
		It's like I got hate from the LGBTQ community from coming on this show last time, which I'm sure will happen again.
		But it's just like the fact that you're willing to have me and then guys like Ben Shapiro on the same show and just have candid conversation is just so fucking cool.
		Well, we all need that.
		100%.
		And that you get hate for this is so ridiculous.
		And the idea that I'm somehow homophobic is fucking ridiculous.
		Yeah, no.
		There's always people looking to dismiss people today.
		It's one of the weirdest parts about today is that people want to take a person and narrow them down into a binary thing, a good or a bad, you know, a pro or a con, with me or against me, get rid of them, have them killed, or elevate them to godhood.
		There's no in-between.
		Yeah, it's so dumb.
		It's like human beings are messy, weird creatures.
		It's hard to put people in boxes and categorize them.
		And you're a great example of that.
		Yeah, I think the funniest thing was somebody messaged me like, Joe Rogan hates gay people.
		How could you be on a show?
		I was like, I literally hugged the dude three days ago.
		Pretty sure he doesn't fucking hate me.
		I don't even know where they get it from.
		A lot of it came during the Bernie Sanders campaign, but that was because they were just trying to keep Bernie from getting elected.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They started taking jokes and things out of context and trying to pretend that these are real opinions.
		Well, no, and that's the thing I always tell people, right?
		Especially about you.
		It's like, yeah, you probably saw that three and a half minute clip that's going around Facebook.
		That's all good.
		But go actually watch the two and a half hour conversation that they had.
		Yeah.
		Like actually listen to what they talked about.
		It's just a weird time for people because there's so many opinions out there.
		Like so many people have opinions and it's so hard to try to get a real nuanced view of who a person is.
		You have to talk to them over and over and over again.
		One of the good things about having a podcast like this where I talk three hours at a time is that the people that listen know me.
		They get it.
		Because you can't hide from people when you're talking for three hours, day after day after day after day.
		They know you, warts and all.
unidentified		Oh yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they know you.
		It's insane.
		But that's why I'm so grateful for being on here as well.
		Well, I'm grateful that you come on here, and I think we all need, like in all groups of whatever differences, whether it's people on the right and people on the left, people that are religious, people that aren't, people that are gay, people that are straight, whatever it is, we all need to just talk more and come to the real understanding that life is just about people that are nice and people that aren't nice.
		And if you're a nice person, you don't care what other people do, and you just want them to be happy.
		And if you're not a nice person, you want to go around controlling people and making people live the way you live or think the way you think on both ways.
		Absolutely.
		Whether it's people that think that you have to adhere to a certain way of communicating and talking about people and Preferred pronouns and languages.
		So much of what we're dealing with today is about people trying to control other people.
		Whether it's homophobes trying to control you, or whether it's the Russians trying to control our political discourse, or whether it's vaccine mandates, or the politicians are trying to control people, or the pharmaceutical companies are trying to control people to generate more income.
		It's about control.
		We're losing some of our humanity by giving into that.
		A lot of humanity.
		My thing has always been, at the end of the day, it's easier to love than hate.
		It's better to love than hate, that's for sure.
		The effort it takes to hate somebody is exhausting.
		It is, but some people feed off that shit.
unidentified		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't get that, man.
		Yeah.
		Well, you're smart.
		That's why.
		Yeah.
		You're smart and you also have experienced discrimination at a higher scale than most people, so you understand how stupid it is.
		It really is stupid.
		It's fucking stupid and there's so much freedom in just accepting and loving people.
		It feels better.
		Yeah.
		It feels better.
		The people that are...
		The real people, not the Russian trolls, that are leaving these mean comments.
		There's probably something, either something about them where they're afraid because they might be gay, or maybe they are gay, or maybe they were raised in some weird repressive religious environment, you know?
		I mean, that's the thing is like, the whole fear around gay people and like the LGBTQ community blows my mind.
		The fear about it and what?
		Yeah, like, people are afraid that, like, you know, we're trying to, like, take over or make people gay.
		I mean, you said it before, like, we're just born this way, man.
		Like, that's all we want to, you know, I just want to be able to go home to my husband at the end of the day and not get shit for it.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		It's pretty, pretty simple.
		Yeah, the fear, right?
		The fear part and the anger, it's like, I think a lot of it is just not being exposed to enough gay people.
		Yeah, I think it's ignorance, right?
		Like, they feel that somehow my happy, loving relationship with my husband is going to affect their lives in some way negatively.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't make any sense.
		It's literally impossible.
		Yeah, unless he's trying to fuck you.
		What do you care?
		Yeah, and most of the times I don't want to.
		Have you felt the shift in your lifetime?
		You came out and you were, what, 20?
		22. 22?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, seven years ago.
		Have you felt, over that time, acceptance sort of expand?
		Yeah, I think so.
		I think it also could just be my position in the sport that I'm in.
		People just know who I am.
		So people coming into the sport, they're like, oh yeah, there's Rob and his husband Joey, and there's no thought about it.
		I think it's taken seven years, but it's just become who I am.
		And that's just the expectation people know of me.
		I think what it also boils down to is like people are just, they get awkward around change.
		They don't know how to accept it, right?
		So like when somebody does come out as gay, lesbian, bi, trans or whatever, they struggle to try to reset their mind frame.
		I mean, I did coming out as gay, right?
		Like I lived a heteronormative life for 22 years of my life.
		Up until I was 22, I thought I was going to be married to a woman, have kids, just live this normal lifestyle, and realize that's not me.
		That's not what I want.
		That's not what's going to make me happy.
		And I'm fortunate that I was able to just come to terms with that really quickly and just be like, yep, fuck it.
		That's it.
		But even the people in the sport and some people around me, they struggled to change that narrative of my life.
		And at the end of the day, it's like, Why does my life have that kind of bearing on you?
		Yeah.
		You know, and that's what I think is the weird thing.
		Well, it's also, it's a sex thing, which is weird.
		It's because, like, if you live your whole life, chances are you're never going to see any of your friends fuck.
		No.
		Right.
		Be kind of weird if you did.
		Right.
		So, why do you care?
		And that's another thing, right?
		Is I think, like, for some reason, people automatically associate being gay with sex.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, if you see a straight couple walking down the street, you don't think of them in the bedroom.
unidentified		I do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean...
		I always do.
		That's all you, man.
		But it's like, you know, they see a picture of me and my husband and they're just like...
		Which one of you guys is on the top?
		Yeah, they just automatically go to this perverted mindset of sex right off the bat.
		And it's like, nothing I talked about is about sex.
		I'm talking about love.
		Like, you know, they're not mutually related.
		So it's like, come on.
		Yeah, I'm pretty sure my neighbors, the older folks, they probably didn't fuck anymore.
		They were like in their late 60s.
		My whole ED thing will creep up to you.
		Not really anymore.
		No.
		Viagra's a hell of a drug.
		Yeah.
		So you have seen things shift.
		The thing that drives me crazy about homophobia really is when it's rooted in religion and you have this ideology that they believe came down from up on high, right?
		Yeah.
		They think this must be followed to the letter.
		And if that's the case and they think that Homosexuality, whatever the religion is, because there's some homosexualities that are more tolerant, or some religions and ideologies that are more tolerant of homosexuality, and then some that aren't at all.
		And the ones that aren't at all, it's spooky, because a lot of those are ancient, and they've held these traditions for a long time.
		Like, you know, when you hear about, like, ISIS throwing people off buildings for being gay.
		Oh, like, in Islam and, like, Middle Eastern countries, like, literally beheading in, like, a public square.
		Yeah, scary shit.
		That's reality.
		That's what scares me.
		You could open up someone's eyes that maybe these ideas that they had about bigotry and homophobia are wrong, and they need to readdress and re-understand.
		And that's possible.
		You can get people to open their eyes and go, Yeah, I just thought it was...
		I thought it was their choice.
		I didn't know.
		Now I know.
		I've reframed my perceptions of it.
		But when those perceptions are locked into an ancient ideology that is supposedly the Word of God...
		You're not going to change that.
		That shit is so difficult to change.
		And it's such a sneaky way to make something like a legacy thought and to keep it in there.
		I think the moment that people...
		I kind of give people an aha moment.
		It's like, I compete in competitions all over the world.
		And for most people, it's just not a thought of where you'd go to travel.
		But what I tell them is like, I literally have to Google to make sure I'm allowed in that country in the first place.
		Whoa.
		Right?
		Have you ever had to not go to one because...
		I have chosen to go to one where homosexuality was illegal and Joey wasn't able to come with me.
		Where was that?
		Botswana.
		Oh, wow.
		Botswana, 2017. Homosexuality is legal there now as of 2019, I believe.
		Congratulations.
		Yeah.
		2017, it was not.
		And that was actually my first year at World's Strongest Man.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, typically, the World's Strongest Man invite comes via email.
		It's like, congratulations, you've qualified.
		Mine came from a phone call from lawyers at IMG. Really?
		And they were like, hey, Rob, so here's the situation.
		We want you to be one of the athletes at World's Strongest Man this year.
		However, it is being held in Botswana.
		And as of right now, homosexuality is illegal.
		The way the law is written is you can only be persecuted if found performing, quote-unquote, unnatural acts.
unidentified		Whoa.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So they were like, we're going to leave it up to you.
		If you don't want to come, we'll hold your spot for next year.
		But it's up to you.
		You know, so my husband and I went back and forth on like, what do we do?
		You know, this is a huge moment.
		This is the first time an openly gay man is going to be competing at World's Strongest Man.
		So how do we navigate this?
		And ultimately we decided for me to go and he would stay home just for pure safety.
		And like, no lie, I think it was about two weeks before I flew out, Sure as shit, like somebody sends me an article about two men that were thrown in jail for seven years for holding hands in public.
		In Botswana.
		In Botswana, where I was going two weeks later.
		You think they let them out now?
		I don't know.
		I mean, I would hope so.
		But, you know, like, that's something that I have to think about.
unidentified		Holding hands.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because that was an unnatural act, according to them.
		Holding hands?
		What about shaking hands?
		That's okay.
		No, that's not good.
		How weird.
		Yeah, right.
		How long do you make eye contact?
		You can shake hands, but you can't walk with them.
		No, no.
		You can't move.
		That is such a strange thing.
		Just think about that.
		Because everyone shakes hands.
		Everyone.
		You shake hands with people you don't even know.
		But if you hold onto that hand with someone you do know, and you go for a walk, It's not okay.
		People will get really upset at you.
		Yeah.
		How fucking weird is that?
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because it's not like kissing.
		No.
		Like, men don't kiss men on the lips when they see each other.
		So if two guys see people kiss, two guys kissing in public, it's like, whoa, I've never seen that before.
		Yeah.
		But everybody's seeing guys shake hands.
		Nothing weird about it.
		But holding on to that hand could be a real issue.
		That makes it awkward.
		How weird is that?
		So yeah, so it's like, you know, I've been invited to compete in some Middle Eastern countries.
		Like, I was in Bahrain back in March.
		Fortunately, LGBTQ laws are pretty relaxed.
		But like, that's the thing that I have to do every time I travel to these countries.
		I literally have to see like, okay, like, what are the laws surrounding me being there?
		Here's a little kind of weird side thing.
		Do you remember when Bush was in office?
		He had very close relationships with the Saudis.
		And one of the things the Saudis do is they do hold hands while they walk.
		So there was photos of George Bush holding hands with this Saudi royal guy while they were walking.
		Look at this.
		He had to follow his rules.
		In Saudi Arabia, I am illegal there.
		I can't exist.
		Are they kissing on the lips?
		What was that?
		Holding hands, a little kiss.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, you know, so it's just like, it's so funny.
		So like, that's okay, but me being an openly gay man, I cannot exist in their space.
		Well, you know, what's weird is, you know, we're talking about these Islamic countries.
		My friends that have served and have been deployed overseas say there's so much undercover homosexuality in these countries, and a lot of it with underage boys.
unidentified		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's like a thing that they were told that they had to look away from.
		Like when they had these encounters with people who were either translators or informants or people that were working alongside with them, occasionally they would have scenarios where these guys were abusing young boys.
		That's horrible.
		And they weren't allowed to say anything about it.
		That's terrible.
		Yeah.
		And they were told this is a part of their culture.
unidentified		Damn.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And so these guys are all over there going, what?
		So here you have this culture that the ideology is openly homophobic, openly anti-gay, yet you have all these guys that are having sex with women.
		Like I remember I was having this conversation with someone and they were talking about how tolerant Iran is.
		And I was like, in what way?
		Iran has some of the highest levels of trans people in the Muslim world.
		I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, but do you know why?
		It's because being gay is illegal.
		Yeah.
		So the only way these guys can be with their partner is if one of them transitions.
unidentified		That's so fucked up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which is crazy.
		So fucked up.
		So this is the loophole that they're given.
		Like, yes, you are allowed to be with this person, but one of you motherfuckers has to decide who the girl is.
		That's crazy.
		I mean, it's, you know, countries like Dubai, where it's like, yes, it is technically illegal to be gay there, but it's also not persecuted.
		Okay, so it's like weed in Austin.
		Yeah, exactly.
		You know, so it's like, I know, like, you know, we were going to be going there for a contest, but I ended up not being able to go.
		And they were like, oh, like, you can't show affection in public, like, you know, you can't, you know, hold hands, you can't kiss, anything like that.
		But that's kind of standard across the board for straight or gay people.
		Right, in a country like that.
		Right, right.
		Yeah, there's a lot of that.
		Like in Dubai, you get caught making out with a woman on the beach.
		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah, you get in trouble.
		When you went to Botswana, were you allowed to wear your tights?
		Or did you tone it down?
unidentified		I did, yeah.
unidentified		You did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, look at your big smile.
		I know.
		You fucking rebel.
		Yeah, it was like a subtle fuck you.
		I've kind of made it a point.
		That was my break into the highest level of this sport, which is why I kind of took advantage of going to World's Strongest Man.
		But now I'm a little stronger in my convictions, where if a contest is being held in Saudi or any of these other countries, I would absolutely turn it down and be like, no, man.
		If you're going to hold a contest in a country that openly...
		You know, kind of hates who I am as a person, then I'm not going to compete with you.
		Well, also, now you're a known person, so you're holding a higher standard.
		Yeah, exactly.
		You know, back in 2017, before I'd ever competed, I didn't.
		Now, pretty decent following online.
		Should I sit here and talk to you?
		People kind of know who I am.
		So I would hope that my voice has a little bit of weight behind it.
		Plus, in that world, you're very successful.
		So in that world, you're known even more.
		So you kind of have a responsibility.
		I get it.
		Absolutely.
		Yeah, it's just wild that here we are in 2021, and you've got countries that, like, we saw the video clip earlier, and in China, I think they have a similar attitude, don't they?
		Yeah, I forget the exact statistic, but I think it's like anywhere between 15 and 17 countries worldwide, it's still legal to be murdered or killed because you're gay.
		And do all these countries share a religion?
		Are they varied?
		Most of them are like Islamic.
		I know like in Russia, it's actually written like if a random person just like beats a gay person to death on the street, they won't be charged with murder.
		In Russia?
		Yeah.
		That's a thing.
		You do not want to give Russians a green light to beat anyone to death.
		No, dude.
		One of the guys I'm competing against this weekend is Russian.
		Oh, really?
		Yeah.
		He's a pretty cool dude, though.
		Well, I gotta imagine they're exposed to the internet now, right?
		So they're exposed to a broader range of human beings and more discussions about things.
		Yeah.
		And people get a better sense of that, you know, this is just part of life.
		Yeah, I don't know if it's necessarily accepted, but it's more tolerated.
		Which is shitty to think that.
		Oh, at least I'll be tolerated in this country.
		It's going to be looked down upon in the future.
		When people do, whether it's 100 years from now or whatever it is, when there's none of that left, they're going to be looking back on it the same way we look at slavery, the same way we look at all sorts of horrific things that people have done throughout it, the same way we look at the way women were treated before they were even allowed to vote.
		We're going to look back on it and go, what the fuck were they thinking?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
		It is crazy.
		You know, I mean, that's like with the slavery and like segregation thing, like people tend to think that like that was so long ago.
		What's going on right now in Libya?
		40, 50 years?
		No, here in the U.S. even.
		It was what, 40, 50 years ago only?
		Like it's not that old.
		Well, it's arguable it's still going on right now if you consider these people that are incarcerated that shouldn't be and that are innocent.
		I mean, there's a lot of people in prison right now that are incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses, and they're essentially using them as batteries to generate money.
unidentified		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's disgusting.
		When you think about a private prison system, when they put people into these jail cells, and when you know that prison union workers, like the guards lobbyists, what they do is prison guards At least they were for a while.
		They were lobbying to make some drug laws to keep those drug laws because that would make sure that they would have more work.
		What the hell?
		That's crazy.
		Yeah, police unions did it.
		Prisons, you know, they lobbied to make sure that certain drug laws were kept in place because that would guarantee revenue.
		Because as soon as you make things valuable, you can make money off of imprisoning people.
		Which is crazy.
		The statistics on imprisonment in America are so nuts.
		When you look at our prisons and our prison population in comparison to the rest of the world, I think only China has similar numbers to ours.
		That's wild.
		But you can find out what that is.
		I know it was outrageous, but I don't know what the numbers are.
		The comparison, the prison population in the United States versus the way people are imprisoned worldwide, per capita, I think we're off the charts.
		Well, I think there was a meme that said, when dispensaries look like Apple stores, It's time to release those people that are being incarcerated for weed.
		Yeah, Chuck D from Public Enemy had that on his Instagram today.
		Yeah, exactly.
		It's like, come on, man.
		There's people in jail for selling weed, and then you can go to dispensaries in California.
		There's a place across the street from the improv in Hollywood that looks like a fucking Apple store.
		Dude, I go to the ones in Massachusetts.
		They're bougie as hell.
		This guy across the street from the improv, they gave you a magnifying glass.
		Oh, yeah.
		To look at the weed.
		Like flashlights, you can inspect it, look at the crystals.
		It's crazy.
		Okay, so here it is.
		The prison population of the United States is number one, bigger than China, and China has a billion people.
		So our prison population is ready for this.
		2,193,798.
		China, 1,548,498.
		China has more than...
		Yeah, more than three times the amount of people here.
		And we have over 600,000 more people incarcerated.
		Yeah, it's nuts.
		No, more than that.
		Look, I mean, the numbers are crazy.
		Yeah, 600,000.
		And look at what it is per capita.
		Population per 100, this is where it's really nuts.
		118 per China.
		737 for 100,000 in America.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's fucking crazy!
		The jail occupants, this is the thing, the China's not available, the occupancy level is 107% in America.
		That means there's more people in those jail cells that are even supposed to be in there.
		Kenyan prisons have an occupancy level of 343,000.
		Excuse me, 343%.
		That's wild.
		Three times overpopulated.
		It is wild.
		But if you get down to England, they have 80,000 people in prison.
		That's nothing.
		Scotland, 6,000 people in prison.
		Northern Ireland, 1,000 people in prison.
		That's wild.
		That's insane.
		Yeah, and only 79 per 100,000.
		Two million here in the U.S. It's crazy.
		And we're one of the places where...
		Look at that unsentenced prisoners.
		Look at that shit.
		21%?
		Women prisoners are only 8%.
		Girls are keeping it together here in America.
		Yeah.
		It's fucked.
		So if you think about that, in America, slavery is not legal to buy people and sell people, but it's certainly legal to keep them in a cage.
		And keep them in a cage for things that arguably should be legal, like drugs.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, you look at when states decriminalize or countries decriminalize drugs.
		I think Portugal was a country that decriminalized all drug charges.
		And they saw just massive drops in crime, like in everything.
		Well, the really important thing is it stops organized crime.
		And that's a giant problem in Mexico.
		I mean, we are connected to Mexico and Mexico's organized crime feeds off of our appetite.
		Which is so fucked because by making things illegal here, we don't stop people from using drugs.
		We use the same amount of drugs.
		But we do, unfortunately, set it up where they're gonna get tainted drugs.
		That's why fentanyl-laced heroin and shit like that.
		People are overdosing so quickly.
		I mean, that's insane.
		But in this country, it would be political suicide if you said we should legalize all drugs.
		Oh, yeah.
		I think Oregon did it, though.
		I think Oregon just decriminalized everything, right?
		Everything.
		Everything.
		Fuck yeah.
		Heroin, mushrooms, steroids, whatever you want to do.
		They're like, go ahead.
		Love it.
		But meanwhile, it sucks up there.
		It does.
		It sucks up there.
		I talked to a guy who said that...
		No, I didn't talk to a guy.
		I read this.
		Who said he was talking about...
		He got his car done.
		He had some body work done in his car.
		And he said, I got to tell you, these Antifa folks keep me in business.
		So he said he has been dealing with bullet holes.
		And that bullet holes in cars are so common up there that it's actually ramping up his business.
		That's wild.
		I will say, like, Joey and I went to Portland for a weekend.
		And...
		It was crazy walking around there just seeing the amount of homelessness.
		But what's crazy is the amount of people that choose to be homeless.
		Right.
		Like they're laying in their tents with iPhones.
		Dirty white people.
		That's what it is.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dirty white people.
		Probably from rich families that want to be oppressed.
		Yeah.
		That's the way they become oppressed.
		Living on my own.
		I'm one of the unhoused here in Portland and I want to say.
		But like, motherfucker, you're laying with an iPhone 13 in your tent.
		It's just a weird thing that they have allowed so much fucking chaos up there.
		And just people don't feel comfortable about their property and their home and whether or not they're safe walking down the street.
		That's insane.
		It's crazy.
		But they're pretty open-minded when it comes to LBGTQ issues.
		They are.
		I felt very safe there.
		Isn't it funny?
		It's like, no one can get it right.
		There's not like one sweet spot.
		But I do have to say, Austin is a pretty good sweet spot.
		It is a pretty good sweet spot.
		It's a pretty amazing place.
		I mean, to be fair, not a huge fan of the whole state, but Austin has got it going on.
		Well, the whole state, so much of it is like really rural and ranches and so old school.
		Yeah, but then you have...
		The governor that just signed in this anti-trans athlete bill just this past week.
		See, this anti-trans athlete thing is where we'll probably disagree.
		Because I feel like the real issue is...
		We don't have enough data to find out what's fair and what's not fair.
		I agree.
		Especially, look at you.
		Okay, if you decided to go into women's power, if there's a world's strongest woman, and you just decided to identify as a woman and enter into that, good fucking luck, ladies.
		No, I agree, but this bill specifically here in Texas is for youth athletes.
		Mm-hmm.
		Right?
		So, youth athletes in this state have to compete in the gender they're assigned at birth.
		Okay.
		So...
		Let's take, for instance, there's a wrestler here in the state.
		The girl that has to...
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She takes testosterone.
		Takes testosterone, has to compete against women, against girls.
		That's bad.
		That is bad.
		It's bad for her.
		It's bad for the other athletes, or it's bad for him.
		It's bad for the other athletes that have to compete against him because, you know, essentially...
		This biological female now has the hormone profile of a male.
		But if you're talking about a 13 or 14-year-old male-to-female athlete...
		That's when things get different.
		Is it, though?
		Have they gone through puberty?
		Maybe, maybe not.
		Are they taking estrogen blockers?
		Possibly.
		If they're in a transition...
		It might not even be legal for them to take estrogen blockers in this state.
		Some states it is legal, some states it's not, right?
		Yeah, but if that guy can get testosterone...
		The flip side should be legal.
		I mean, should.
		Who the fuck knows?
		My issue is if they change their mind.
		There's been research on trans, male to female, that if you leave them alone and they don't transition, a lot of them just become gay.
		And are happy that they didn't do some sort of hormonal intervention.
		Yeah, I mean, I think there's...
		I mean, this is another thing I'll probably get hatred from my community again saying this, but...
		You know, I read, I was watching a video, I read an article that there was a six-year-old boy in a family.
		A family had a daughter, a newborn.
		You know, obviously the six-year-old who was an only child was no longer getting the attention, so, you know, started identifying as female.
		When they brought the child to therapy to kind of uncover this a little bit more, he felt that the only reason he was able to get attention from his parents was to be a girl because he now had a little sister.
		It wasn't because he was actually trans.
		That sounds like shitty parenting.
		I think so, too.
		But, like, I think there's definitely instances, but I think, you know, there's also the flip side that is true, that there are trans kids.
		Yeah.
		You know, that know from a young age that they are not male or female or that, you know, they're not the gender that they were given at birth.
		But the thing is, there's a difference between accepting them for that and who they are and them competing with what may be biological advantages.
		There was a situation that happened recently where there was a pro MMA fighter who was trans, openly trans, competed and beat a woman who was a biological female.
		It was apparently a good fight and the trans woman was actually in trouble in the first round and then wound up winning in the second round.
		And then people came to me about it and I go, I have no problem with that.
		I have zero problem with that.
		You know why?
		Because...
		It was all divulged.
		They knew.
		There was no confusion.
		Absolutely.
		The woman knew what she was doing.
		Just like I have no problem with anybody doing anything risky.
		I have no problem with...
		Skiing is more dangerous than that.
		Yeah, fuck that.
		There's a lot of shit that people do that are dangerous.
		I don't have any problem with it.
		As long as there's no deception.
		My issue with the Fallon Fox thing was that Fallon Fox didn't tell these women that she was a male for 30 plus years and it only transitioned for two years and said that it was a medical procedure that she didn't have to say that.
		I say that's nonsense.
		I agree.
		But once she did come out, and once everybody knew, then the women she competed against after that, no problem at all.
		I mean, but it's also a slippery slope, right?
		Because I feel like a person shouldn't have to come out just to be able to compete.
		But they might have an advantage, a physiological advantage, of having testosterone running through their body for 30 years, and then they get off of it, they're going to have significant advantages.
		There's advantages in reaction time, there's advantages in the size of the heart and the lungs.
	Bone density.
	Yeah, there's a lot of advantages.
	Bone density is a different one, though, because in actual studies, they've shown that in certain African-American women, that they have a similar bone density to some European males this is obviously Depended upon physical exert like we were talking about your bone density is probably much higher than most because of the amount of weight you lift But there's differences in terms of like what part of the world your ancestors are from true I think like the thing that rubs me like what what I hate to see is like,
	you know Take an athlete like Laurel Hubbard the weightlifter from New Zealand that competed at the Olympics.
	Yeah I get where people could become upset with that.
	They feel that she had taken an Olympic spot from biological females, yada, yada, yada.
	At the end of the day, though, she as an athlete is just following the guidelines set forth by the IOC. Is the IOC perfect?
	Fuck no.
	This is what's been laid out as acceptable for trans athletes to compete at this level.
	Right.
	So the hate is going in her way, where maybe people should just take a look at what should we do in terms of regulations.
	Exactly.
	Do you think there'll be a time where there's enough trans people to have trans leagues?
	Like, let's think about it this way.
	In boxing in the Olympics, we never have males compete against females, right?
	Because we acknowledge that males have an advantage.
	We acknowledge that, and then we separate them.
	Would it be possible to have males, females, and trans people?
	Or is there too small of a population?
	I think one, it's a small population, but two, the general acceptance of trans people would have to be a lot higher for trans people to be comfortable enough to come out in the first place.
	Well, it's a lot higher now than it's ever been before.
	Absolutely, it is.
	So wouldn't we think that along with other acceptance, like the acceptance of gay people, the acceptance of all sorts of other, you know, religious exemptions where you see like the Muslim people wearing the hijabs where they're playing?
	Yeah.
	Volleyball, like, that we'll be more tolerant to all sorts of different things in the future.
	I think it also, that's like, it kind of singles them out in a way.
	Yeah, but it does make it safe in terms of, like, biological females being able to compete on a level playing field.
	I think, like, honestly, I don't know if there's a right answer.
	I think that's a good answer.
	Right?
	Like, I think, because I see both sides of the coin.
	Right?
	Because even biological females, there's a spectrum.
	100%.
	Just like biological males.
	Look at the runner from Africa.
	Right, but she's intersex.
	She's different.
	Correct.
	She actually has a Y chromosome.
	It's a different situation.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I think she has, like, double X Y. Yeah.
	So she does produce a certain level of testosterone.
	Am I correct about that?
	I believe so.
	But I guess the issue is where it's like, okay, this woman, who is a biological woman, does produce higher levels of testosterone, yes.
	But now she's being told she has to take a testosterone blocker to be able to compete.
	To bring it to a certain level, right?
	Yeah.
	Whereas you look like Michael Phelps was literally praised because he's a physiological anomaly for not producing lactic acid at the same levels of other athletes.
	Yeah, when they say that, though, you're talking about a guy who's been training at such a high level.
	How do we not know that this is an adaptive measure that his body has taken to deal with the fact that he has this, like, super high training load?
	And you've seen him train.
	He's a fucking beast.
	Yeah, no, he's a beast.
	And, like, I don't know, like, again, like, you know, this is just plain devil's advocate.
	Like, I mean, Michael Phelps achieved more in his career than I can ever imagine.
	So not a slight to him, but it's, you know, kind of looking at the, you know, kind of double standard that's being thrown at these athletes.
	Yeah.
	It's, like I said, I don't think there's a right answer.
	I think either way, people are going to be pissed.
	I would like if one day, I mean, with genetic engineering, with what they're doing now with CRISPR and all these different weird methods of manipulating genes that now they're doing CRISPR 2.0, so it keeps getting better and better.
	Yeah.
	I would envision that sometime within our lifetime, you're literally going to be able to become a woman.
	Like, no ifs, ands, or buts.
	Like, there's going to be a way to not just have a surgical alteration and intervene with their bodies, with hormones, but instead, you actually will be transitioning to a woman.
	I mean, I think that'd be fucking great.
	I think, like, even trans people would want that.
	I would hope.
	If you gave them the option, like if you had the red pill to blue pill with Mobius or Morpheus, if one of them was a pill that made you not want to be trans anymore, made you happy being a biological male, and one of them was a pill that turned you into a woman, an actual woman, which one would you take?
	I think it would be a high percentage of the trans pill.
	It would be nice if you could try it out for a little while, you know?
	Can I get a trial size?
	30 day trial period.
	You know what I mean?
	But I think it boils down to these trans people I feel like in that situation, red pill versus blue pill, majority would go towards just being a biological whatever sex they feel they are.
	Yeah, I think so, too.
	I think so, too.
	And then I think there's probably some of them that like, and this is fine too, there's some of them that like identifying as a woman but keeping their penis.
	Yeah.
	And having sex with it.
	Absolutely.
	And this is how they like to live.
	And that shouldn't be a problem either.
	Good for them.
	Yeah.
	When it comes to sports, that's just where things get slippery.
	It's such a gray area.
	It is.
	And even me being a professional athlete and a gay man, I think what's funny is people automatically look to me as like, Oh, you know everything about this entire situation.
	I'm like, fuck no, man.
	I'm gay.
	I know about dudes and dudes.
	That's about it.
	Well, yeah, it's a different thing.
	And it's a thing that we're trying to understand.
	And it varies with person to person.
	And I think we are seeing great strides in it because more people are feeling comfortable coming out as trans.
	So there is some actual data to grasp onto now where we can start to see better trends and understand things a little bit better.
	I thought it was funny, though, when Caitlyn Jenner came out against trans athletes and everybody was so hating on her.
	She's such a bitch.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why is she a bitch?
		Because of that or something else?
		I think, honestly, I feel like she doesn't have any moral ground and she just panders to whoever she thinks is going to listen to her.
		It's possible.
		It's not, I mean...
		You know, just being candid.
		Yeah, it's certainly possible.
		I may seem like an asshole for saying that, but...
		Well, she's fairly old, too, now.
		Yeah.
		Right?
		And, like, the world was a different place.
		Your mind formed back when there was, like, four TV channels, and you were on the Wheaties box in the 70s, and now you're dealing with the fucking chaos of today's choices and options and identities.
		Oh, absolutely.
		I mean, that's...
		I couldn't...
		I understand she has gone through some crazy shit to be where she's at.
		I just think she could be going about it a little more tactfully.
		Well, it's also a function of answering a question in a parking lot from TMZ. Yeah, that's not great.
		Don't do that.
		Especially if you're like, what?
		What'd you ask me?
unidentified		I think there should be compete against girls.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		It's not a good way to answer a question.
		Especially a question like that, which is a culturally significant question coming from someone who is genuinely one of the most famous trans people alive.
		If not the most.
		The most, right?
		I would say so, yeah.
		The most famous trans person alive.
		The most.
		Yeah, I mean have other people like Laverne Cox who's known in the actor's world and stuff like that, but which I don't know who that is.
		I know she's Caitlyn Jenner gorgeous Yeah, Laverne Laverne Cox is I mean I guess because I'm gay I know who she is, but I'm sure sure she's famous, but there's no way she's as famous as Caitlyn Jenner I gotta think so when you are Stepping to the queen, that's what it is.
		That's the head honcho of the trans world.
		Or at least the most famous person.
		Yeah, I think a lot of people also have a lot of issue with her because of her experience has been so much different from the majority of trans people.
		Oh, right, right.
		Huge acceptance.
		Women of the year immediately.
		Cover of Vanity Fair.
		ESPN fluff piece.
		Yeah, they just hand it to her in a silver platter where that is not the experience of...
		Right.
		The majority of trans people.
		The thing about it is, though, did it help trans people or did it not?
		Like, what do you think happened?
		I think it became really divisive.
		It still is.
		You know, I think there's a really big divide of people that are like, this is great.
		Caitlyn Jenner is in the forefront.
		You know, she is an out and proud trans woman.
		And then there's other people that are like, shut her the fuck up.
		Now, what's the general consensus about what's going on right now with Dave Chappelle?
		You know, I figured you were going to ask me about this.
		Well, I wasn't going to until we started talking about trans athletes and trans this.
		Here's my thing, and I may be more open-minded at accepting of all this stuff, but in my experience, Dave's been making fun of Everybody for forever and including himself.
		Oh, he doesn't hold back, right?
		I mean, but did you see the special?
		I did.
		Did you think he was making fun of trans people like in a mean way?
		No, I think I think like Over overwhelmingly like the stuff that he says like I don't think is mean-spirited No, the thing I have an issue with is when he just says like yeah trans people are just funny to me Like I don't think their experience is funny.
		I think it's hard and Hmm right like I think is that one of the quotes that he said I see I don't know if that was in this one or our previous one But he you know there was one point where he says you know like you know But at the end of the day, I just think it's fucking funny And I think like that's honestly out of everything he said that's the only thing I've ever had an issue with Because I don't think somebody's struggle is ever funny, right?
		Do I think you can make fun of it?
		Yeah, here's a struggle.
		It's funny One of them Pray the Gay Away preachers?
		Okay, that's funny as fuck.
		Come on, that's funny.
		Yeah, that's funny.
		That's really funny.
		Because 90% of them are still jerking off to gay porn right after they do that.
		Exactly!
		90?
		Isn't it 100?
		Yeah, you know, so like, to be honest, like, I really didn't have an issue with what he said.
		Right.
		I feel like a lot of people didn't actually watch a special.
		They just heard that it's transphobic and they heard...
		Jumped on it.
		The story at the end, I watched him work it out over a year.
		We've been touring together.
		Yeah.
		And the story is about a trans woman who he loved, who was a very dear friend to his, who he actually had opened up for him at one of his shows and he talks about it and she defended him and then she was dragged by the trans community and she wound up committing suicide and it was devastating to him.
		That sucks.
		And that's the thing.
		He talks about how he has gay friends, lesbian friends, trans friends.
		He doesn't care he loves everybody.
		He really does.
	If you meet him, he's one of the most loving and friendly people I've ever met in my life.
	But here's the thing with Dave Chappelle.
	If you have a heartbeat, he's probably going to try to make fucking fun of you.
	Yeah.
	Regardless of who the fuck you are.
	Yeah.
	You know?
	And I think that's just like, people lose sight of that, right?
	Like, for me, it's comedy.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	Like, everybody's free game.
	Yeah.
	That's my feeling.
	If you just take up that one piece of him just saying, like, trans people are funny, I think, to me, it changes the context.
	That's really the only thing I've ever had issue with what he said.
	That is the problem with taking any little tiny snippet of comedy out of context.
	Because he'll say things and then balance them out.
	Like, he'll say one thing that makes it look like he's making fun of one person and then making fun of himself later.
	Or he'll make fun of himself first and then he'll make fun of them later.
	And it's like...
	It's meant to be taken in in its entirety.
	Yeah.
	Because it's a vision into his perspective.
	Here's the world through my eyes.
	I think the thing is, too, is like the media obviously doesn't help, right?
	Because just a couple of years ago, here he is defending, you know, George Floyd and the George Floyd murder.
	We're talking about that.
	And Fox News is trying to cancel him for that.
	Now Fox News is praising him for this movement.
	You know, so I think it's like it just makes it so divisive and it's just so easy because of what he does.
	Like it is very in your face and he doesn't hide back.
	He doesn't hide behind anything and he stands up for everything that he says.
	But I think it's just so easy, like you said, to take four minutes out of a two hour special.
	And take that for the word that he said.
	Well, what's crazy about this special in particular that he's getting heat from is that they're not quoting any of it.
	No.
	There's no one thing where they say, he should not have said this.
	They're just saying his hateful transphobic special.
	And I'm seeing these people that are tagging on to that that I know haven't listened to it or watched it.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And they're saying that.
		It's funny, like, if you go on YouTube, there's literally, like, a 25 or 30 minute video of Dave Chappelle's trans jokes.
		He's got that many trans jokes?
		Yeah, it's a pretty long one.
		What's the problem is, like, he keeps defending it, right?
		Like, he keeps getting attacked.
		He makes a trans joke, he gets attacked, then he defends it and makes more trans jokes, then he gets attacked.
		Yeah.
		And then the last one is, like, 20 minutes of a story about a trans person.
		Yes.
		He might want to retire that subject.
		Yeah, I mean, I think at this point it's low-hanging fruit.
		But still, it feels like it's relevant to his life and his experience, unfortunately, because this is a thing he's dealing with, is being attacked for his bits.
		And for him, it's therapy, right?
		That's part of the reason why he does this.
		It's also, whenever there's a thing that's in the news that becomes a public subject...
		He has an obligation to discuss it.
		Yeah.
		Because he doesn't have a podcast.
		He does, but he doesn't really do it that often.
		Yeah.
		And he did like a series of them for Luminary.
		But this is how he gets his opinions out.
		For sure.
		He gets it out through his comedy.
		Yeah, and I think, like I said, at the end of the day, it is what it is.
		I didn't take offense to it.
		You know, it's just that one piece that I just wish wasn't there.
		Well said.
		All right.
		Unfortunately, I got to wrap this up.
		I got to get the fuck out of here.
		Yeah, we've been talking for a long time.
unidentified		I appreciate you, brother.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's always good to see you.
		Thank you, man.
		Good luck in your rehab.
		And I'm telling you, take into account my idea about the bear.
		I'm down for it.
		That'd be fun.
		Kill a bear, wear his skin, eat his meat, and wear that skin.
		Come out with your comeback.
		Which I love it.
		I have bear skin.
		Full-length coat.
unidentified		Beautiful.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All right, Rob, tell everybody your social media, where all your stuff is, where people can get ahold of you.
		Yeah, easy enough to find me on Instagram at worlds underscore strongest underscore gay because of you.
		Last time I bought worldstrongestgay.com.
		That is the website, so you can find me there.
unidentified		Beautiful.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you can also find me on my new business venture at strongmancorporation.com.
		Anybody, feel free to contact me directly, rkerney at strongmancorporation.com if you're interested in becoming a part of it.
		I think it's awesome that you're running that.
		Thank you.
		I really think it has massive potential, too.
		I'm super excited.
		It just needs the right push.
		Yeah, absolutely.
unidentified		All right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bye, everybody.

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