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May 4, 2021 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:15:49
Joe Rogan Experience #1644 - Ethan Suplee
Participants
Main voices
e
ethan suplee
01:13:36
j
joe rogan
01:57:18
Appearances
j
jamie vernon
01:54
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
joe rogan
So what's up, man?
Dude, if I didn't know who you were and I ran into you, I would have no idea that you're the same guy.
ethan suplee
It's crazy.
joe rogan
You're a fucking completely different human.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
You went from this guy that looked like you were really in bad shape to a guy who looks like a guy I would avoid in jujitsu.
I'd be like, fuck that guy.
Let me get away from him.
He's too big.
You look fucking great, man.
ethan suplee
That's awesome.
This is the greatest compliment I've ever gotten.
Thank you very much.
Just gigantic and fat.
That's all I want.
joe rogan
Dude, you look like a gorilla.
You look like a dangerous human being.
How did you do it?
ethan suplee
Well, over the past 20 years, I've gone back and forth with dieting.
I've lost a shitload of weight.
I've gained a shitload of weight back.
How did I do it?
I think that the thing that I've done that has been sustainable is undoing kind of...
Look, a lot of diets come in and say, just do this and you'll lose weight.
But we're not focused at all on how we got to whatever point we were at that we consider non-optimal that we want to change.
And so, undoing the bad habits that I had that I would associate with allowing myself to get up to 550 pounds Is really more important than anything that I could say, this is what I did to lose weight.
Does that make sense?
joe rogan
Yes.
Yes.
So when did the process start?
So you kind of went back and forth, but you've obviously been on a very steady course for how long now?
ethan suplee
20 years.
19 years.
2002 was the first time I thought I really want to change my life.
And I started then.
joe rogan
And how much weight have you lost since then?
ethan suplee
2002, I went from 550. I did a liquid diet for two months and lost 80 pounds.
That 80 pounds, I've never dipped back into.
So I was 450. And I went down to close to just under 300, then went back up to 400, then went down to 200, then back up to 350. And for the past five years, I've been around the weight I'm at now.
So I've really gotten that under control.
joe rogan
And what are you at right now?
270. That is incredible.
That is so incredible.
So you've lost more than 200 pounds.
ethan suplee
Oh, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Solid.
ethan suplee
I've lost 200 pounds a couple of times.
joe rogan
But you've also put on muscle.
You're unrecognizable.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
Listen, the other strange thing about weight loss is...
When you're building fat and you're storing fat, your body is naturally building lean tissue too just to support that fat.
So under every obese person, there's a person with more than average muscle.
joe rogan
Because they have to carry around all their weight.
ethan suplee
Yeah, you're naturally building muscle just by raising your heavier arm.
joe rogan
I used to always say that to Ralphie Mae.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because Ralphie Mae was so heavy, and I was like, look at your legs, dude.
I go, you'd be able to kick someone through a fucking wall if he just lost weight.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just to be able to carry around.
ethan suplee
I have gnarly calves.
joe rogan
I bet you do, dude.
ethan suplee
That's one of the few things that I train sometimes with bodybuilders now, and my coach is a professional bodybuilder.
Jared Feather, shout out to him.
And he has a lot of calf emphasis.
And I'm like, I don't really need to do that, bro.
My calves are good.
joe rogan
Yeah, you carried around 500 pounds for years.
Can you show me a photo of Ethan when he was at his heaviest?
So has this affected your work?
Because, you know, you were getting roles for so long as an actor when you were large.
ethan suplee
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, it has.
There was a time, if we go back to like 2015, and I had been really thin.
And when I say really thin, I mean 200 pounds.
But for me, that was extraordinarily thin.
joe rogan
That's what I weigh, which is crazy, and you're a lot bigger than me.
It's crazy to see.
ethan suplee
I thought I looked gaunt.
joe rogan
God!
Look at those two fucking pictures!
Like, if a girl broke up with you...
When you were on the left and then ran into you, you know, at the fucking airport when you were on the right.
I mean, that is bonkers, man.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's incredible.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, truly, truly incredible.
ethan suplee
That's my favorite picture and that's not even down lighting.
I was an idiot and I'm not super thrilled with my hair and my head and I wouldn't shave my head because I thought the hat looked better with a little bit of hair poking out and then it got in the way of down lighting.
So that's not even as good a picture that could Downed lighting.
joe rogan
That's what everybody wants for abs.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
They want downed lighting.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
See the guns.
So your training regimen must be pretty strict.
Look at that fucking picture.
That is so bananas, dude.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
What movie is that from?
ethan suplee
Remember the Titans.
joe rogan
Wow.
ethan suplee
Yeah, that wasn't even the heaviest.
joe rogan
That's not the heaviest?
ethan suplee
I mean, I was probably close to 500 there, but no, that's not even the heaviest.
I don't know what to point to.
This picture down here is, I believe, after Remember the Titans, and I'm certainly a little bit heavier.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
When you look at that and you know how far you've come, I mean, it has to be incredibly satisfying.
ethan suplee
It's incredibly satisfying, but, you know, look, the reality is that I have mental illness and I don't look at myself and think, like, God, I look great.
I see nothing but negative stuff every day and I try to I try to find something that I'm happy with.
Usually it's my traps.
I can look at my traps because it's lean.
There's not a bunch of loose skin hanging there.
They're not all scarred up from surgeries.
And I look at my trap and I go like, okay, that looks good.
And based on that, I can then start to feel okay about myself.
Looking at those pictures, you know, that's also a long time ago.
And I just don't, I cannot relate to how I lived then.
unidentified
Wow.
ethan suplee
It's very bizarre.
joe rogan
Now when you say you have mental illness, meaning that you're aware of this, right?
So you're aware you have a distorted perception of yourself.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
Very much so.
joe rogan
And what do you think is, what's fueling that distorted perception?
ethan suplee
When I go back to my childhood, I was put on a diet when I was five.
And prior to that, I had no sense of self.
I existed, and clearly I had fun and I played, but I was not aware of my body as a thing, kind of, if it is external to me, as a separate component to me, or just as a thing itself.
It just was.
And at five, I was put on this diet and all these parts of me were pointed out as being super negative.
joe rogan
At five years old?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
And by the way, in fairness, if you look at the average five-year-old today...
I wasn't obese at five.
I was a chubby five-year-old, but I was super active and I wasn't eating junk food all day long.
joe rogan
And you're growing in your body, too.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's the thing about five-year-olds.
It's like, I've seen kids that look kind of chubby and then you run into them a few years later like, look at you, you're a beanstalk.
ethan suplee
Yeah, yes.
I have four kids myself, and you watch them, they kind of go in different directions, wide and then tall.
Yeah, there isn't a set thing.
But I spent most of my life feeling...
Wrong like literally that I was wrong or bad or there was some some Just super negative about myself and so I still have to fight through that today like no matter what I've done I 2012 I went and rode every stage of the Tour de France or 2011 maybe Just for just for fun and I could do that on a bicycle and That's not fucking easy.
That's thousands of miles on a bicycle in a very short period of time.
I was much thinner than I am now, and I was miserable.
I was not happy.
joe rogan
Why were you miserable?
ethan suplee
I didn't like the way I looked.
I still thought I was fat, and I was 70 pounds lighter than I am now.
joe rogan
So it's body dysmorphia.
ethan suplee
Yeah, something like that.
But I think being aware of it, I can talk myself through it.
It's not like I'm hung up on it every day walking around feeling like a piece of shit.
unidentified
Right.
ethan suplee
But I do catch certain glimpses of myself and feel bad and feel negative.
joe rogan
See, this is the argument against fat shaming.
And I've always said that...
I've never been really overweight, but I've been fatter than I am now.
I've had a belly.
I got fat for a little bit.
But it's a joke.
I should be slapped for saying that, right?
ethan suplee
A couple pounds on you.
I mean, yes, I don't think so.
Whatever you want for yourself, I think, is what you should do.
joe rogan
But I looked at it and I was like, oh fuck, I gotta lose some weight.
And I went on this carnivore diet and I lost like 12 pounds.
But the point is that that worked for me.
But I'm not in this mental state where I'm constantly judging myself.
And some people are.
And it's not their fault.
You know what determinism is?
ethan suplee
Sure.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Some people don't.
There's an argument of free will versus determinism.
And I think there's a real good argument for both.
But the argument for determinism is, you are who you are.
I should explain this.
The idea is, determinism is essentially based on the idea that you are You're a product of all of your life experiences.
And the idea that you're responsible for everything you do at every step of the day, that's not entirely plausible.
Because there's childhood trauma, there's life experiences, there's emotions, there's genetics, there's There's what you've had from all these life experiences that you've tried to assimilate, and those are different than my life experiences, and everybody's are different.
And who you are right now.
Like, someone said to me one day, and it was kind of a compliment, I could never do what you do.
Like, I could never do what you do.
I go, you could if you were me.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
It's not like I'm not saying that there's nothing special about me.
I am just who I am because of my life experiences and my genetics and all the things I've done.
And you are who you are for all your life experiences and who you've done.
And to expect someone who has had bad input...
And bad emotional guidance and bad perceptions of their own physical health and their identity.
To accept them to just get their shit together is ridiculous.
It really is.
But they can do it.
Some people can do it.
You obviously did it.
And that's probably the best piece of fuel and inspiration for anyone out there that's looking to get their life together physically, metabolically, healthy.
What's the best piece?
The best is someone who is at rock bottom, who is 500 plus pounds, and worked their way back to, like I said, a guy I would avoid in jiu-jitsu class.
unidentified
I love that.
joe rogan
I mean, it's really what it is.
Fuck that big guy.
Get away from me, dude.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
But that's...
Which you did.
And I think in that you can help so many fucking people.
You are a gift in so many ways.
Because what you've done is so extraordinary.
The accomplishment is so...
It's magnificent.
I mean, it really is.
It's an amazing accomplishment.
Not just because of your own...
Personal health and what you've done and the way you look, which is incredible, incredible achievement.
But you're a fuel, man.
You're a rocket fuel for all these other people.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because they look at you and go, I can do that.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I can do that.
ethan suplee
And they can.
joe rogan
They can.
ethan suplee
Yeah, certainly.
I think you had him on the show, too.
Robert Sapolsky makes a great argument for determinism.
joe rogan
He does.
ethan suplee
He's the guy who I read and I go, oh, shit, I don't have free will.
joe rogan
Right.
ethan suplee
But I think that as my perspective shifts, I do today feel as though I have free will.
I have to battle through everything that makes me me still, but I can do that and I can win.
There was certainly a point where the momentum was such in the other direction That I failed time and time again.
And again, it kind of always came down to I wasn't addressing how I arrived in the state I arrived at.
I was addressing how do I lose weight, thinking that was the only piece of the puzzle that I was missing.
And so once I'd lose weight and I'd wake up and go, well, none of the habits that I had cultivated for decades to get me to this bad place or this place that I deem non-optimal.
Have been addressed.
And by not addressing them, they still exist.
And now here I am repeating this cycle over and over and over again.
Today, I have whatever version of free will I feel that I have, I feel very confident in decision-making because I can kind of work through these ideas.
But there was a long time where it is tough to...
To have the attitude with somebody who's in the middle of it and just go like, just make a decision.
It's a rough position to put them in because you can make that decision a hundred times and fail.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's also your body is trying to trick you into sabotaging your progress.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which is really one of the most fucked up things about the weight loss addiction, which makes it so much more difficult than I think most addictions, is that you have to eat.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You don't have to gamble.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
Or do drugs.
Right.
But do you know anyone who's a gambling addict?
ethan suplee
Yes.
joe rogan
It's really fascinating because it is a drug.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
But it's a weird drug.
It's a drug that your brain makes.
I didn't know anyone who was a gambling addict until I started playing pool.
And then I was hanging around this pool hall.
When I was 22, 23 years old, there's a place called White Plains Billiards in White Plains, New York.
Executive Billiards, rather, in White Plains, New York.
And Executive Billiards was a full-on degenerate pool hall.
It was just guys that were gambling, a lot of guys who lived in flop houses.
They always had like $10 for their name, and they would bet that $10 and then try to bum money off of people.
I mean, and it was as a young guy who came from sports, you know, came from martial arts, and I was, you know, I was like goal-oriented and I was trying to be very disciplined in my life.
To see these guys live like this, I was like, wow, this is crazy!
I just enjoyed the game of pools.
I was trying to learn this game, and these guys that were really into it were also degenerate gamblers.
And almost all of them.
I mean, to a man, they were degenerate gamblers.
And to watch these people get jazzed up for gambling and for bets, they would bet on anything, man.
Raindrops going down a windowpane.
They would gamble on which drop?
ethan suplee
You'd see their eyes glaze over a little bit.
joe rogan
Oh my god, they just wanted that fix.
ethan suplee
Yes!
unidentified
Fuck yeah!
joe rogan
And they'd win.
Crazy!
They would gamble on cards, they would roll dice, they would do anything.
They would gamble on shots, make a shot, set a shot up.
They would give people crazy games.
But it is 100% a drug.
But it's a drug you can avoid.
Just don't go to the pool hall, talk to a counselor.
It seems like an easier one to get away from.
But the food one's crazy.
ethan suplee
Because you have to eat.
You have to.
There was a time when, and it's so bizarre that it came out and they modeled it after Soylent Green, which ultimately turned out to be People at the end.
Spoiler alert for anybody who hasn't seen that movie.
joe rogan
It's from the 60s, right?
ethan suplee
It's a long time ago, yes.
We haven't ruined anything, hopefully.
But there's a Soylent Drink, which is...
Pretty bland, but they have all, and they design it to like, here's my weight and height and activity level, and they give you these drinks and you basically stop eating.
And I, when I heard about that, I was like, fuck, because I'm sober.
And I totally understand this kind of black and white, like, when I'm doing something, I'm doing it 100%, whether that's eating cheeseburgers at 4am or, you know, scoring Coke and drinking a lot.
And If I can just give up food and drink this soylent shit for the rest of my life, maybe I'm solved.
Maybe that's the key to me.
But, you know, I don't think that's even really a realistic thing to do.
joe rogan
No, I don't think that's the key.
I mean, I think it's a tool, you know, and you can use tools to kind of help you bridge gaps in between where you are and where you want to be.
But again, it's like, who are you?
I mean, for some people, that's not a good tool.
For some people, it is.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
We have to come to grips with the fact that human beings are so different from each other.
We're so similar and yet so different.
And so much of your life experience and your genetics and all these different things determine who you are currently.
And to say, just get on this Soylent drink for someone who just craves the flavors of food.
You know, Action Bronson was on the podcast recently, and he's a chef.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
So for him...
unidentified
Real tough.
joe rogan
Yeah, real tough.
But he also had a son.
And when he had a kid, and he realized he was ridiculously overweight and sedentary and wasn't doing anything, and now he's a fucking beast.
That guy trains so hard.
He trains every day.
One of the first things he did when he booked the show out here, he said, hey, I need a gym to go to.
He said, go to my gym, Onnit Gyms, just down the street.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a little bit away from here.
We'll set you up.
We'll get you a trainer.
I've worked out with him.
He fucking works out hard, man.
He goes after it.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
He really does.
I was really impressed.
ethan suplee
I worry sometimes for some people that trading or trying to handle being obese with exercise...
For me, that's a scary proposition because I've done that.
And the minute that you miss a workout or miss a few or you hurt yourself, if you haven't adjusted your food, you're gaining weight again.
So I really do...
I train every day.
I take a day off a week, and it's very important to me to get into the gym.
But I do that because it makes me feel better.
joe rogan
Yeah, me too.
Yeah, I guess I do it for fitness and I guess I do it for health.
I do it for all those things, for sure.
But I really do it for my head.
ethan suplee
Yeah, me too.
joe rogan
And I feel, you know, I'm a broken record.
People don't even know what a broken record is anymore, these fucking kids today.
They don't.
A broken MP3. Have you ever heard a broken record?
You ever heard a record skipped?
You fucking young Jamie.
But the message is really clear.
People out there that are not exercising, you're doing your brain a disservice more than anything.
I know it sucks.
I know you don't want to do it.
But if you can do it, it'll relieve so much anxiety.
When I talk to people that are on anti-anxiety medication or SSRIs and all these different things, my first question is always do your exercise.
And they'll look at you like you're talking to a cancer patient, like, how'd you do this?
How'd you get there?
Why do you have cancer, man?
Like, that's not...
I'm just saying, listen, if you exercise, I guarantee you feel it might not fix everything, but it'll fix a lot for a lot of people.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
And for me, it started with just taking a walk.
When the idea of exercise was insurmountable, just how far can I walk?
And then can I walk a little further the next day?
And then can I beat that?
And I'm saying like...
When I'm used to just walking to my car from my front door, can I walk past my car?
Literally, if that's it, at 550 pounds it might be that small.
But if you go into it with the attitude of setting goals, and you see that you can achieve this goal, and then you can beat it, and you can go a little further, I wouldn't use that to address weight loss, but just to feel that you can accomplish something with your body is a big deal.
joe rogan
There was a lady that I used to yoga with and I watched her lose about a hundred pounds in a year.
ethan suplee
Wow.
joe rogan
It was incredible.
And I remember I brought it up to her and I was trying to figure out how to bring it up to her because I could tell she got like super uncomfortable and I was like shit.
Like, I'm trying to be nice here, but I'm addressing the fact that she was gigantic and now she's just big.
And I said, I don't remember what I said, but it's something along the lines of, I think your consistency is incredibly inspirational.
I said, I think it's awesome.
You're in here all the time.
But I mean, by saying that, I'm saying...
ethan suplee
You're acknowledging.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm acknowledging that there's an issue, you know, and that makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable.
They'd rather just be invisible.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, but...
I had to.
ethan suplee
I spent the majority of my life trying to be invisible.
Trying to, you know, I wore shirts at the beach, which made me feel like I was covered up.
I mean, you look at the white fucking shirt with water.
It's a wet t-shirt.
You can see through it.
It's not hiding anything.
But it made me feel less present.
I have terrible posture simply because I try to be smaller, right?
Now, you call me a gorilla, it makes me feel good.
When I was 500 pounds, had you called me a gorilla, I would have been like, oh my god, this is awful.
These gorillas are big.
And it's just a weird thing.
But I think it's nice to acknowledge people when you see something.
And god, what a wonderful way you did that by just saying her consistency.
You're acknowledging everything.
You're not pointing out to her that there was anything wrong with her.
You're simply stating like you admire what she's doing.
I think that's a kind way to acknowledge somebody.
joe rogan
I was trying.
I was trying to be kind.
And I was being really honest.
She really is impressive.
It's amazing to watch someone just decide at some point in time, enough is enough.
I'm gonna do something and that lady was in there every day and I wasn't in there every day I was only going to yoga a couple days a week and I go in there I'm like again you're here again yeah she was such a nice lady too and then the instructor said how much have you lost so far and I think she was at that time she was closing in on a hundred pounds which is amazing yeah but you know you could see the consistency it was changing like a practice like first for the beginning of the year versus the end of the year she's deeper into poses she could hold things longer and this is hot yoga too Which is,
you know, rough stuff.
It's 105 degrees.
ethan suplee
I've done all forms of exercise, indoor exercise.
The only time I thought I was going to potentially die was hot yoga.
And the teacher said, we have one rule here.
You cannot leave.
If you can't do anything, you just lay down.
And I laid down and thought, I'm going to lay here and die because I'm too scared to tell this teacher to go fuck herself because I'm not allowed to leave.
And she said, we locked the door.
I'll kick a fucking hole through the door.
I laid there for the rest of the class with my heart rate jacked up and thought like, I can't believe I'm going to allow myself to die in this sauna because this chick has a rule.
joe rogan
Yeah, but that rule's good for your head.
It's not good for everybody.
You really should have ice-cold water.
I bring a gigantic hydro flask, like a 64-ounce hydro flask, and it's mostly ice and water.
Mostly ice and then water, because it's going to melt during the class.
And I was always trying to find the right level of ice to water, so the end of the class had a little bit of ice, but not much.
There's something about that, too.
There's a study they're doing right now, I believe it's at Harvard, where they're trying to figure out whether or not hot yoga mimics the same sort of effects in terms of heat shock proteins that sauna does.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
Because sauna is insanely beneficial for you.
But one thing it definitely does is it tests your brain in a unique way.
Because you want to get out of there.
Because you want relief.
But if you could talk yourself into not getting that relief until the end, you've got a victory.
It's a victory for the day.
ethan suplee
My victory was simply that I didn't die.
And I was really convinced.
joe rogan
You only did it once?
ethan suplee
I did it one time.
And I did it after a spinning class.
It was a very stupid move.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ, that's crazy.
ethan suplee
Yeah, it was not smart.
joe rogan
Wow, that's a risky move.
Spinning class is fucking hard, period.
And then to go yoga after spinning class, that's preposterous.
ethan suplee
It was awful.
joe rogan
Well, there's a couple times I did it.
I said, I can't do this anymore.
I'm getting mauled.
I would go yoga in the morning and then jujitsu at night.
I would just get mauled.
I'm so tired to get my ass kicked.
Because I would be at like legit 60% of what I'm capable of.
I was like, ugh.
I have no pop, no explosiveness.
My body's just so tired.
My body's like, what are you doing, stupid?
Like, you just killed me five hours ago.
And now you're doing this?
ethan suplee
You're in here doing this.
This thing that can kill you.
joe rogan
It's so good for your fucking head though.
That's how I feel about sauna too.
One of the things that I like most about sauna is that I don't like it.
I don't like the last five minutes are so hard.
It's so rough.
Because you're sitting there, and every impulse you have is to get the fuck out of there.
The door's right there.
Like, what's wrong with you?
Open that door, and you go, ah, cool, jump in the shower, cold water, let's get free.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
Nope.
Stay.
You have a timer.
ethan suplee
I think that that is the thing that I like about exercise because sometimes the night before I'm looking forward to it, like I'm going to go to the gym tomorrow, first thing I'm going to feel better.
The morning of, I'm never super amped up to get to the gym and start working out.
And there's always a little bit of struggle there.
It's never something I'm close to losing the struggle on nowadays, but...
Making it through is a big deal for me and the fact that I put and when I string together a Succession of making it through the momentum carries me a long way Any day that I miss it and I lose that fight It's like a massive swing in the opposite direction.
joe rogan
Psychologically.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, I feel that way too.
I always am less enthusiastic about getting to a place where I have to work out with other people.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which is weird.
It's like that's the one where all of my bitch-ass instincts are like, stay home, stop it.
Doesn't your back hurt or something?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Aren't you feeling tired today?
And people say, oh, you work out so hard, you must be really disable.
And I'm like...
I'm kind of disciplined, but I'm kind of lazy.
I'm like the most lazy, disciplined person you'll ever meet, because I always do it, but I always don't want to, but I always do it.
I'm very consistent in my actions, but there's part of me, and David Goggin said that about himself.
He was like, people think that it's easy for me?
unidentified
He goes, sometimes I look at my shoes, I stare at those motherfuckers for a half hour before I put them on.
ethan suplee
He's amazing.
joe rogan
He's a fucking...
ethan suplee
He's fucking amazing.
joe rogan
He's a monster.
unidentified
I hope that people are...
ethan suplee
Watching him and going, if I need to use him just to walk to the bathroom, that's what I should use him for.
Do you know what I mean?
It doesn't all have to be ultra-marathons.
joe rogan
Right, right, right.
Anything.
Anything.
Walk around the block.
Anything.
Anything.
Get work done that you need to get done.
Don't just sit in your house.
Sitting in your house and being lethargic...
It's so fucking bad for you.
There's something about nature or genetics or whatever our code is, that when you're doing literally nothing, just laying around doing nothing, your body's like, what the fuck is the point?
What are we here for?
And what people don't recognize is like when you're laying around just watching television and then you shut the TV off and you feel like shit, you are artificially stimulated for hours and hours just staring at things happening while you did nothing.
And then when you shut it off, the reality of your actual day sets in like, oh my god, I've done nothing.
But I thought I was doing something.
I thought I was in a fucking Aston Martin being chased because I was James Bond.
And the guys are shooting.
But no, you really weren't doing anything.
You're getting this weird, fake stimulation.
It's so bad for you.
I'm not saying it's bad for you all the time.
It's great when you've accomplished things and you feel good and you want to just enjoy something, give yourself a little reward.
And I'm a firm believer in rewards.
But man, when I waste a day, I feel like such a fucking loser.
ethan suplee
It's awful.
It's awful for me too.
We arrive at a day and age where you can be a professional video game player.
You can have all your food left on your doorstep.
Have you watched television recently?
Yeah.
I hadn't watched television just like network television in years.
joe rogan
Oh, no, I don't watch that.
ethan suplee
You put it on.
The commercials are all medication and food.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, that's right.
ethan suplee
It's fucking crazy.
joe rogan
The medication commercials freak me out.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
And there's so many.
Talk to your doctor.
There were these problems that existed that have medicines now.
Shit you never heard of.
joe rogan
It seems unethical.
And it seems weird that it's allowed.
Like, for sure.
You know we're only one of two countries on planet Earth that allows that?
ethan suplee
I didn't know that.
What's the other country?
joe rogan
New Zealand.
ethan suplee
Wow.
joe rogan
New Zealand's doing way better than us, by the way.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
I think they're brushing it off a little easier, but it just seems wrong.
Like, your doctor should be the one telling you if you need fucking medication, and you should go to your doctor.
Because psychosomatic disorders are real, you know?
And also this idea that watching something on television in a commercial, and you're like, oh, I have all those problems.
Real simple, real clean.
Talk to your doctor.
Oh, I'm going to go talk to my doctor about this.
Like, what about hypochondriacs, man?
What about crazy people?
Like, you just...
Fucking their head up all day long, which is a real problem with people.
If you say to people, if you plant those seeds in their head, do you have this?
Do you have that?
Is this wrong?
Do you feel bad about this?
You're like, oh, do I? Maybe I do.
We're so malleable, you know, that to influence us with drugs, and then they hit you with, side effects may include, and then they may include, what if they definitely included?
ethan suplee
There's almost always colitis and rectal bleeding, and that's the one that I just go like, who the fuck wants to, that's not a trade-off!
joe rogan
And the thing is, it's like, may include is weird, because what if it said, always include?
Like, take this, and this is definitely going to happen.
You'd be like, I'm not taking that!
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
It might happen, but it might not.
Maybe you'll feel better.
Maybe your toes won't hurt.
ethan suplee
Psychosis and colitis are the two where I just go, any problem I have, I'll just fix it with nutrition before I try this drug.
joe rogan
Good for you.
ethan suplee
That's what I'll try.
joe rogan
But here's the thing.
I'm kind of...
Full of shit.
Because I watch those commercials, they don't do shit to me.
I watch those commercials, and I see some girl spinning around in the fields of wheat and flowers.
I don't think I need to get on birth control.
It's like, whatever she's on, it's not...
So I'm kind of full of shit.
Because it doesn't affect me.
So why am I upset about it?
Why do I give a shit?
This is the problem that I have with a lot of things that people are very upset about today.
Like whether it's conspiracy theories or whatever it is.
There's people out there that want to protect other people from bullshit.
And I get it.
I get where they're coming from.
But why doesn't it bother me?
ethan suplee
I think, though, that, you know, and I think I know what you're talking about.
I think we've come to another point where there's an assumption that we all have the exact same set of values.
unidentified
Right.
ethan suplee
When I hear people say, I'm siding with science, my first instinct is to ask when science developed a set of values or morals.
Because there's no scientific moral code.
That doesn't exist.
If you want to place some value on a scientific outcome, that's a human...
It's an opinion that forces that scientific outcome into a value system.
And so if you sit back and you assume that everybody innately has the exact same set of values, then yeah, we can have these arguments based on science, not science.
But if people don't necessarily have the same value system that you have, why would we want all this?
Like, this is where I get into people who want to protect other people, and it's like, well, you're just assuming that all the things that you want are the things that they should want.
And when I hear what people should want, I go like, that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me.
Right now, It's slightly difficult to talk about weight loss because I've been obese and now I'm not obese and I celebrate not being obese.
I am much better off with the way I have structured my life because of having lost weight.
But I can't tell anybody else to do that.
And I don't even really want to.
If somebody wants to be overweight, if that's a trade-off they're willing to make, that's fine with me.
But I think for the most part, most of the people I've spoken to, they don't want that.
A lot of people seem to have goals that generally line up with mine.
And then in talking to them...
Now there's this diet culture monster in the room where even that is attacked because there's a whole new set of values that are born that must be enforced.
And at some point, there's got to be the recognition that we don't all necessarily have to want the exact same stuff.
joe rogan
There's also so much biological variability, right?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
The things that would work on another person just don't work on you.
Sure.
Yeah, including diet.
ethan suplee
Oh, man.
Arguing about diets is another great one.
I really like talking about diets simply because at the end of the day, it's so much safer than politics because there's no military backing up a diet system.
unidentified
Yeah.
ethan suplee
You talk about politics and it's like, we have a fucking military to force you to do the shit we want you to do versus the other military that's going to force you the other way.
But diets, it's like veganism versus carnivore.
If we're just talking about weight loss, the other thing, some of these things get into like the minutia of health.
If you've got a guy who's got 200 pounds to lose, why are we focusing on the minutia of health?
I don't know that that's the right goal.
If the goal is just weight loss, I don't think these are the same conversations.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think...
I think there's so many different things that need to happen to a person to force them into action.
What do you think is the key things?
Is it inspiration?
Is motivation?
Sometimes is it that you don't want to die or you don't want to be sick any longer, that you're fed up?
Or is it being inspired by a guy like David Goggins or Cameron Haynes or someone like that?
ethan suplee
For me...
For the very first time in my life, I was thinking about the future in a way in terms of what I wanted out of life versus just like what makes me happy right this second.
And I was seeing a girl who I'm now married to.
We have a bunch of kids and I couldn't have a better life.
Like 20 years ago, if I described to you the life I wanted in that moment, I've way surpassed that.
joe rogan
That's awesome.
Congratulations.
ethan suplee
Thank you very much.
Yeah, I have to take a step back occasionally and go check you out.
Look what you did.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's amazing.
That's amazing.
ethan suplee
At 500 pounds, I was not thinking I can be a dad, I can be a husband, I could teach little kids how to do stuff.
Like, this was not part of my...
I could take my wife on a hike, I could go to the beach with her and not, you know, sit under a towel in the back because I'm scared of people looking at me.
These were not the thoughts I was having.
So that spark of motivation of, like, what do I want out of life got me just so far because after an extreme diet, when you've crashed your metabolism and you then – and by the way, Your body is fighting against you tooth and nail doing these things because your body thinks you're starving to death.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
So it's trying to slow everything down.
ethan suplee
Slowing everything down.
Over long periods, you're not just consuming fat.
You're consuming fat and lean tissue.
It's fucking tough.
All your hormones are fucked up.
I forget the name of the hormone, but there's a hormone that makes you hungry.
This is skyrocketing when you're on an extremely caloric deficit diet.
So then you go to like just eating like a normal person and you're watching what other people eat and you're eating this and you're fucking putting on weight again like at a rapid pace and going like this doesn't make sense.
I thought I was cured.
I lost all this weight.
I watched a really fascinating TED talk by a guy named Mike Isretel about five years ago, four or five years ago.
And in it, and I had tried...
I was dead convinced that I was allergic to carbohydrates.
And so I was like, I'll never eat a carbohydrate for the rest of my life.
joe rogan
You thought you were allergic to carbohydrates?
ethan suplee
I was convinced that everybody...
Yes, that everybody was...
Gluten intolerant that the way that we made bread in America with all the ingredients was just poisonous to the human body I was totally convinced of this and I watched this TED talk by Mike Isretel and In it it's called the the dietary landscape of healthy eating and he just goes over like Just be moderate.
That's it.
Just like try to figure out moderation.
Nothing's poisonous.
Nothing's awful like salt if you have no salt You can die.
If sodium disappears from your diet, you can die.
If you have too much salt, it can kill you.
There's an amount, five grams, I think, at one time, and I believe this study was done on small bodies, can kill you.
It can be fatal.
So is that poisonous or is it necessary?
It's both.
This is food for me.
The way I was interacting with food, The idea that I'm a machine, like, you're a car guy.
You're not going to put diesel fuel in your gas car.
You're not going to do that because it's going to break it.
And I had to start really thinking about food in these terms and going, like, I just have a bad relationship with food, a relationship that is giving me an outcome I don't want.
How do I change that, like, utterly?
The first carbohydrates I ate, after 15 years basically of being convinced that I was allergic to them, I was fucking terrified that it was going to be like cocaine and I was not going to be able to stop myself.
I was going to sit there with a bowl of rice.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
ethan suplee
Rice or pasta without a bunch of oil and cheese is not fun enough to sit there and eat it like that for me.
Maybe it is for somebody, but I couldn't do it.
I got my cup of rice down and I was like, holy shit, I'm okay.
I don't have to eat another cup.
I don't have to eat the whole bag of rice.
This was like night and day for me because for a long time I tried to address myself with the diet and now...
I think diet is the most important aspect, but the other definition of diet, not restrictive, just how you eat.
joe rogan
Yeah.
For performance, most people believe that carbohydrates are essential for peak performance.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
Even the carnivore ultramarathon guys, right?
joe rogan
Exactly.
Zach Bitter.
Yeah, Zach who holds the world record for the fastest 100 miles run.
He ran 100 miles and I believe it was 11 hours and 40 minutes or some shit like that.
Zach's a freak.
I mean, he's a savage.
And he takes in quite a bit of glucose while he's running.
He uses glucose gels.
He does a bunch of different things.
But for the most part, he eats an animal-based diet.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
But this is him.
There's other people that are doing it that are eating mostly pasta, and they can do that too.
ethan suplee
I think at the end of the day, if you're a guy who the idea of giving up carbohydrates, if you need to lose a shitload of weight, and the idea of giving up carbohydrates, if you can't really see that as a long-term thing, Fucking don't.
unidentified
Right.
ethan suplee
Don't do it.
joe rogan
What seems to work best for me, I've tried a bunch of different ways of eating.
What seems to work best for me is meat and fish and vegetables.
When I eat mostly just meat and fish and generally like salad or maybe sauteed broccoli or some sauteed broccolini or something like that.
Those things, to me, it seems like I have zero issues with food.
When I go off the rails, it's pasta.
I'm a fucking glutton, dude.
ethan suplee
But it's not just pasta, right?
It's pasta with lots of sauce, cheese, cream.
unidentified
Lots of sauce.
joe rogan
Yes, keep talking.
Let me take my pants off.
Me too!
That's the thing.
I just can't stop eating it, man.
I could eat a full steak, like a 16-ounce ribeye, and then if there's a bowl of pasta right next to it, I'll keep going.
But if I just have the steak, I'm fine.
Steak and a salad, I'm good.
I'm done eating.
I'm satisfied.
But if that pasta's there, I'm like, oh!
And then my stomach will stick out.
I'll be in pain.
I'll be like, oh!
It sticks out my sides.
And I look at myself in the mirror, I'm like, you fucking slob.
What have you done to your body?
Because you've forced your body to eat this glue.
Because when you chew it down, it's just paste.
It's this fucking bowl of paste you've stuffed in your sack.
ethan suplee
I try to eat some pasta.
Pasta is like the least of it, and I hate it without a ton of olive oil or Parmesan cheese.
It's not fun, so it's not one of my go-tos.
But I do have pasta or rice or whole grain bread or potatoes every day, a little bit.
But for the most part, that's my diet.
It's lean protein and vegetables.
joe rogan
I seem to have very little problem with rice.
When I have rice, everything seems good.
It makes me full, but I don't feel like shit.
Rice seems to be no issue for me, particularly white rice.
I was shocked when I found out that brown rice is actually not as good for you as white rice is.
ethan suplee
Hard to digest, yeah.
joe rogan
And you're like, what?
ethan suplee
How's that possible?
No, we were lied to as children.
They lied to us.
joe rogan
Well, it just seems like you're eating something whole grain, man.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, it's like Lickman.
ethan suplee
Dude, when gluten-free bread was invented, because this happened in the midst of me becoming gluten-free, and it was like a few years into it that suddenly it was like, there's a cookie shop, there's a bakery in West Hollywood that does gluten-free pastries.
And then I was just like, oh my God, they're speaking to me.
And I would go there every day and I would eat muffins and cakes and shit and I would go, it's gluten free.
And I would gain weight and I'd be like, what the fuck is the problem?
There was no point that I was ever like, it's gluten for me has nothing to do with it.
Now, if you have celiacs or Hachimoto's or something where gluten can mess with you, yeah, don't eat it.
But...
You know, there's so many trendy diets that come out and it's like you have a group of people that has failed so many times that they're desperate to just tell me the right thing to do.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
Just sell me that.
Tell me gluten.
Tell me I'm allergic to gluten and I'll give it up and if that will do it, you know?
joe rogan
Well, you know what actually has low gluten but is fucking delicious is sourdough bread.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which is crazy, which is kind of the best tasting bread.
ethan suplee
I love it.
joe rogan
My buddy Tom Papa makes sourdough bread and whenever he comes over he brings me some.
Jesus, we make a deal.
I give him elk meat, he gives me sourdough bread.
His fucking sourdough bread is so goddamn good.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
You put butter on it, just the sourdough bread and butter.
It's incredible.
Or I'll put Nutella on it if I really want to go off the rails.
It's so good.
ethan suplee
It's so good.
joe rogan
But sourdough bread, something about the starter and something about the way, you know, there's the yeast in the bread or I don't know.
ethan suplee
I think the gluten consumes itself and then it becomes molecularly something else before you bake it.
unidentified
Yeah.
ethan suplee
When it's an actual fermented bread.
joe rogan
Right.
And it's more delicious, which is crazy.
ethan suplee
Yeah, it's fantastic.
joe rogan
It's so good.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
And then we have Wonder Bread that has 31 ingredients.
And it's also good with bologna and American cheese, but it probably has a shitload more calories.
And what do you want from your body?
At the end of the day, what do you want from the food you're eating?
Is it just entertainment?
Because I like to be entertained by food.
You know what I mean?
I like to go to a place and see a fancy thing that's got all the fucking oil and shit on it.
I like that.
That's fun.
joe rogan
A peanut butter and jelly sandwich with Wonder Bread, not bad.
ethan suplee
Fucking incredible, dude.
Incredible.
joe rogan
When I was a kid, we used to use Wonder Bread for fishing.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
We used to catch carp with it.
Because you take Wonder Bread, we used to buy a loaf of Wonder Bread, and we would roll up the Wonder Bread, the little balls, and put it on a hook and toss it out and the carp would get it.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was the best bait for carp.
ethan suplee
I mean, it's either that or worm guts.
That's not the most discerning fish, I think, at that point.
joe rogan
Carps?
Yeah, carps is an odd fish.
They're really not supposed to be here.
It's not native to a lot of places around here.
Have you ever seen those people where they're driving boats and the carp fly out of the water and hit them in the head?
ethan suplee
Yes.
joe rogan
It's Asian carp?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
It's like, for whatever reason, when boats come by, they want to fly through the air and slam into the people that are riding the boats.
ethan suplee
It's incredible.
joe rogan
It's the weirdest thing, man.
People have been knocked out.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, out cold.
Bam!
Get hit by a fish.
ethan suplee
It's a wonder that those fish are still around, that they haven't just evolved...
Extinct.
joe rogan
There's so many of them.
That's the thing.
They're so prolific.
They're a real problem because they're one of the weirder invasive species.
Like, I don't know how they got over here, but there's some lakes and river systems that are just choked with these.
I think they're Asian carp.
I think that's what it is because there's that big red carp that I grew up.
I lived in Newton, Massachusetts, and I lived right across the street from the Charles River.
And the Charles River had this waterfall, like, down the street from my house.
And I remember being there one day, we went on this little- Holy shit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You ever seen this?
ethan suplee
I never saw it that crazy.
joe rogan
Bro, they're nuts.
ethan suplee
That's like a mosh pit of car.
joe rogan
Yeah.
No one knows why they do it.
Or I don't know why they do it.
Maybe someone does.
But yeah, when you're driving by, they just go flying out of the water and hit people.
And sometimes they just do it here, like they're just doing it on their own.
And they land in the boats.
But I don't think they're necessarily good to eat.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
But obviously, there's fucking way too many of them.
ethan suplee
So people need to eat them.
joe rogan
Yeah, so I go to...
Are they edible?
Are Asian carp edible?
jamie vernon
In this video, they are making them.
It says the highest population is in the Illinois River.
It doesn't say why.
I'm sure the video does.
But yeah, they're making like fish, all sorts of stuff with it.
joe rogan
What are they doing?
jamie vernon
Jesus.
joe rogan
Oh, they make like cart balls.
Look at all the bones in it.
Yeah, so probably what they're doing is putting it with dough and like a crab cake type deal.
jamie vernon
Yeah, I was going to say it was a crab cake, but I was like, wait, it's fish.
joe rogan
What is she saying?
She's going to lie.
Oh, delicious.
You're putting a bunch of other shit on it, right?
It's not like a piece of redfish.
You just have to grill with some salt and butter.
unidentified
Right.
ethan suplee
We have to add shit to our food.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
When I got to this waterfall down the street from my house, it was just choked with carp.
Like 30, 40, 50 carp just on the surface of the water.
I'm like, this is nuts.
But it's really because they're not supposed to be there.
Like, there's supposed to be an ecosystem, right?
There's big fish, the big fish kill the medium fish, the medium fish.
You know, it's like there's a whole thing going on.
In this place, there was not that thing going on.
ethan suplee
They were just carp.
joe rogan
And they're big, big fucking 30, 40 pound carp.
Like, some of them were this big, just floating around.
Like, what the fuck?
And then, you know, you realize like someone released them in.
And there's a, like in Lake Austin out here, there's a grass carp that I was just talking to a guy who's a fisherman who was telling me that it's a real problem on the lake because the grass carp have eaten all the grass.
So now the fish don't have cover.
Like the bass, they want to hide, like so they can jump out and snatch up the other fish, but there's no place to hide.
So now they're like, what the fuck?
ethan suplee
So they're going to go.
And it'll be just grass carp at some point.
joe rogan
Maybe.
Could be.
But he said it's a real issue because the bottom of the lake has no vegetation anymore.
It's all been eaten by these carp.
And you see the carp occasionally.
Big fat suckers just belly up, floating in the river, and you're like, whoa.
ethan suplee
I mean, listen, there's got to be a healthy way to use those carp.
joe rogan
Well, you know what?
Someone was just saying this, and it's a really good point, that invasive species, if you just found a way to make it profitable to go after those invasive species, that's the solution that they're trying to come up with with the python in Florida.
Because pythons are overrun in the Everglades.
They're so bad in the Everglades that they've killed most of the mammal species and they've started to eat alligators.
ethan suplee
Jesus Christ, really?
joe rogan
Crazy.
There's a photo of this guy came upon, I think it was a 12-foot alligator being consumed by a python.
That's how big they are.
They killed all the deer, they've killed all the raccoons, all the rabbits, anything that's on the ground is fucked by these pythons.
But meanwhile, commercially, python skin is illegal in California, as if they're endangered.
They're not endangered at all!
California's so nuts!
ethan suplee
So you couldn't ship python skin from Florida to California?
joe rogan
No, you cannot buy Python goods from somewhere else and bring them to California.
We're like, no, man.
We just didn't believe in that.
It's so dumb.
It's like they're not endangered, not even a little.
And the idea that this fucking sleazy reptile, this evil fuck that would swallow a baby in a heartbeat, that's what we're protecting?
But yet you can buy wool?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Lambs, you can just walk up to a Lampetta and they're sweet.
They're so nice.
ethan suplee
If they did a python farm, you couldn't do that because they're endangered?
joe rogan
They're not endangered.
ethan suplee
Right.
I mean, in California.
joe rogan
It's just exotic.
They call it exotic.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And then you can't get exotic.
They're trying to make, I believe they might have made it recently illegal to bring an alligator, which is more preposterous.
Because there's places in Louisiana and Florida that are infested with alligators.
So much so, have you ever watched that Swamp People show?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
One of the guys on that show was talking about the tags, like the allocations of tags that means how many alligators you could kill per season.
He's a commercial alligator.
500!
They were giving him 500 alligators he could kill.
That means there's so many alligators!
ethan suplee
That's insane.
joe rogan
When I was a kid, I lived in Florida for a little bit.
We lived in Gainesville, Florida, and it was right near Lake Alice.
And Lake Alice had alligators, but they were endangered at the time, because I guess people hunted them to the point where they had gotten down to very low numbers, and they were trying to save the alligators.
But they fucked up and saved them too much.
And now they're just overrun.
They just show up on golf courses.
They're walking through people's backyards.
ethan suplee
All they got to do is eat one little kid.
unidentified
But they don't.
joe rogan
That's not true.
They ate a little kid in Orlando.
ethan suplee
Did they?
joe rogan
At Disney World.
ethan suplee
They grabbed a little kid at the theme park?
joe rogan
A two-year-old baby came out of the fucking pond at Disney World and snatched up a baby.
ethan suplee
Wow.
unidentified
Bro.
ethan suplee
That's crazy.
joe rogan
That's the thing.
You can't keep them out of lakes.
There's so many of them.
They slither in the middle of the night.
You don't even know they're there.
They'll walk a few hundred yards.
You didn't know they were in the woods.
And then they walk a few hundred yards.
They slide into the lake.
And they feel like little feet walking by the water.
And they just jumped out and snatched up this baby.
ethan suplee
Can they make the jump to saltwater like crocodiles or no?
joe rogan
I don't know.
That's a good question.
ethan suplee
I mean, if they started to mess with the beaches, that might get them shut down.
joe rogan
I don't know.
People are weird.
When we decide that something needs to be protected, we're like, we have to protect it, man.
unidentified
We have to protect it forever and ever and ever.
joe rogan
We never let it go.
They're dealing with that with wolves in some places.
They reintroduced wolves into Yellowstone in the 1990s, and they spread through Idaho and all these different areas.
They've gotten to the point now where, I think it was in Idaho, they just decided that they have to kill all the wolves except for a small number of them.
They have to get them down to a few hundred wolves.
Because there's so many fucking wolves, they're decimating the elk populations and they're encroaching into people's ranches and killing steers.
ethan suplee
But they were endangered at some point.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, they poisoned them to the point where, at the turn of the century, they were virtually extinct.
And then they had to go to Canada and bring wolves from Canada and then repopulate Yellowstone.
ethan suplee
But isn't there a point where they can say, scientifically, we have determined that they are no longer virtually extinct, and scientifically, that means some are on limits to hunt?
joe rogan
Oh, Ethan, you're talking logically.
This does not exist.
unidentified
You can't do that.
joe rogan
With my friend Steve Rinella, what he calls, what is it called?
Charismatic megafauna.
And that's what wolves are.
They're charismatic.
There's something about wolves.
ethan suplee
Oh, they're cute.
They're cuddly.
joe rogan
Well, they're majestic, man.
I mean, I don't want wolves to go away.
Wolves are fucking amazing.
I've only seen one once in the wild, and it was in Canada.
It was real blurry.
At dusk, I saw this dog-like thing run across the road.
I'm like, oh shit, that's a wolf.
And they have a lot of them up there.
ethan suplee
I can't think of a single animal I want to go away, but when an animal, like pigs in this state, there's a lot of pigs, and people have a lot of feelings about the way the pigs are hunted, but there's a lot of fucking pigs.
joe rogan
They don't have any feelings about the way the pigs are hunted in Texas.
ethan suplee
The Texans don't.
joe rogan
They don't give a fuck.
ethan suplee
California feels a lot of ways about the way pigs are acting in Texas.
joe rogan
They're like, no.
Save them with the pythons and put them all in a happy family.
ethan suplee
Right.
They're one generation away from being Wilbur.
Just domesticate all the pigs.
joe rogan
You know, that is the truth.
That's what's weird about them.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
What's weird about pigs is that if you took a regular pig, like a domestic pig, and you let it loose, within, I think, five or six weeks, they start to transform.
ethan suplee
Into those boars with the hair and the tusks.
joe rogan
That's what's crazy is that they're the same animal.
It's all one genus.
It's called Suscroffa.
And all of them are the same.
Domestic pigs are just wild pigs that have been domesticated.
Like, if you take a domestic pig, they look all pink and white, and you let them go, their snout elongates, their tusks lengthen, and it happens quick.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
Like, do you ever heard of Hogzilla?
ethan suplee
Yes.
The gigantic one.
Yes.
joe rogan
Hogzilla is...
There's a lot of thoughts on Hogzilla.
It's a super controversial animal because a lot of people think it's a perspective trick.
ethan suplee
But there are thousand pound pigs out there.
joe rogan
There's definitely thousand pound domestic pigs, I believe.
Let's find out.
What's the largest domestic pig ever recorded?
I'm going to guess it's over a thousand pounds.
What do you think?
ethan suplee
1,200?
joe rogan
Yeah, that sounds about right.
What are you guessing, Jamie?
Ah, what the fuck are you doing?
You're going crazy.
Look at you.
unidentified
You're reckless.
ethan suplee
We weren't way too big for him.
joe rogan
He got reckless.
Knocking over mic stands and shit?
jamie vernon
I just got a chance to see the number, though, so I have a number in my head that's...
joe rogan
What was the number in your head?
jamie vernon
I don't know.
I didn't have one yet.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
jamie vernon
You didn't ask me yet.
I wasn't thinking.
joe rogan
What's the real number?
jamie vernon
It said over 1,000, but this Wikipedia says weight was 794. I don't understand.
It says Hogzilla weighed over a thousand pounds.
joe rogan
But Wikipedia says the largest domestic pig is 794 pounds?
ethan suplee
Hogzilla was feral, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
See, what they think though is that Hogzilla was one of those domestic pigs that broke so it fattened up and then broke through fencing and then went out and started the transformation.
So once pigs fend for themselves, It's so weird.
Like, a switch goes off in their brain and their fur gets thicker and denser.
Like, they change.
The same exact animal changes.
And it's really quickly.
unidentified
All right.
jamie vernon
What were the guesses?
joe rogan
I said 1,000.
ethan suplee
He said 1,200.
I'm way off, apparently.
jamie vernon
Big Bill...
From Jackson, Tennessee in 1933. It was a Poland China breed of hog that tipped the scales at 2,552 pounds.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
You have a picture of Big Bill?
jamie vernon
I was going to look.
That's a big fucking pig.
joe rogan
That's a big fucking pig.
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
Let me see.
Big Bill.
What the fuck?
What the fuck?
Oh my god.
That thing just must have no life.
Just constant food.
That was 1908?
jamie vernon
1933, I think.
ethan suplee
Oh, 1933. And so if a pig that size gets out, has access to food, it's gonna go feral.
joe rogan
Yeah, and that's what, again, this is my friend Stephen Rinello, who's a legitimate wildlife expert.
Pull up Hogzilla.
unidentified
Pull up a photo of Hogzilla.
joe rogan
Yeah, so there's Hogzilla.
See that photo right there?
Yeah, that's a good one, but the one hanging from the legs, like right there, yeah.
See, that's a bit of a perspective trick, because I think the pig is severed.
It's like if you catch a big bass, you do this.
You hold it in front of you with your arms extended, and it makes it look bigger.
ethan suplee
But even this pig going into the dumpster, that's a big pig.
joe rogan
That's a fucking legit giant pig, man.
I don't give a fuck.
That's a legit giant pig.
Look how little his feet are.
Imagine that was a man.
ethan suplee
That's in Hong Kong, too.
joe rogan
Little girl feet and giant body.
Look at the size of his feet.
That's so weird.
Hogzilla, though.
Go to that photo again of the...
unidentified
Whoa.
joe rogan
Fuck that.
Alabama.
That's in someone's yard.
Look at the size of that thing.
ethan suplee
That looks like one of those giant cows.
joe rogan
Look at his balls.
Holy fuck.
Tom thinks he comes a lot.
Imagine what that pig does.
Jesus Christ.
I can't believe how big that thing is, that guy's yard.
That's hard to tell.
That might be little.
That's a sow, too.
But the other one was enormous.
jamie vernon
It looks like the same...
joe rogan
No, it's different.
It's definitely different.
You see how the head is bigger?
Yeah, that's a male.
But the balls, the balls on that thing wandering through someone's yard.
But that photo that's covered in mud, that one in the middle, yeah, where it's hanging.
See, that's the super controversial Hogzilla photo.
ethan suplee
Because he could be standing a few feet back and then the thing just looks gigantic.
joe rogan
That could be a 500 pound pig, which my friend shot a 300 pound pig real recently.
They're real.
And there's a lot of them.
I'm going to show you something.
My friend John Hennessy, he sent me this just yesterday.
There's a place where they hunt them at night.
Look at this.
Look how many of them there are.
ethan suplee
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Yeah, this is outside of Houston.
ethan suplee
And those are about 300 pounds?
Or the one he got was much bigger than that?
joe rogan
No, this is a different friend.
I'm going to send you this, Jamie.
I just airdropped it to you.
It's just the sheer amount of them in that photo, and that's just one photo, one random photo from a trail camera that shows how many pigs are just wandering through this field.
They're really hard to get close to in the day because they're very smart, but their eyesight sucks.
So what they do is they set up at night with night vision and just like they look for these weird glowing bodies and they take them out.
That one in front looks pretty fucking big.
But look, it's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven.
That's just in the view.
But they set these poor pigs up.
Are those feeders out there?
ethan suplee
Are those feeders for pigs?
joe rogan
I don't know.
They might be for pigs, but they might be for deer as well.
Texas is a—see another—there's like a tree stand back there or a feeder in the background.
It's hard to tell what it is.
ethan suplee
I don't think you can do any of that in California.
joe rogan
No!
It's illegal.
Texas is a weird place when it comes to hunting because there's—I'm using air quotes—hunting ranches that are like 200 acres.
So basically you're shooting your pets.
unidentified
I do.
joe rogan
You've got like these animals that are corralled in this – I mean it's harvesting meat and it's probably in some way more ethical than farming.
It's a hard sell.
It's a hard sell.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
It doesn't seem like quite what I imagine when I think of hunting.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
I like to go where they live.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
I mean, but those things live there.
joe rogan
Well, those things are different.
They don't look at wild pigs as like a game animal.
They're a nuisance animal.
But they're delicious, which is crazy.
They really are like some of the best meat.
Like wild pigs, if you cook like pulled pork from wild boar, it is damn delicious.
And if you have a really good chef that knows how to cook wild game well and they can put one on a Traeger, oh my god, it's so good.
Fantastic.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
I mean, we get into, again, what the values are.
California has a whole different set of values.
But I also don't think we have a pig problem like that.
joe rogan
They do.
ethan suplee
Do they?
joe rogan
Yeah, they have wild pigs that have invaded San Diego, excuse me, San Jose.
ethan suplee
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, they're in people's lawns in San Jose fucking them up and they're trying to figure out what to do about it because they're encroaching on the tech community.
ethan suplee
California, you have to humanely capture the pig and then drive it out into the middle of nowhere and release it, I believe.
joe rogan
You can kill them.
You can kill as many as you want, actually.
ethan suplee
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yes.
But you have to have a tag for them.
The difference between California and everywhere else is, like in Texas, you don't even have to have a tag.
If you have a hunting license, you can go out and you can shoot 30, 40 pigs out of a helicopter.
Legitimately.
Have you ever seen that?
I have.
That's how they do it in a lot of places because it's literally the only way to get close enough to them.
So they circle around in helicopters and they gun them down with machine guns.
It's bananas.
In California, obviously you can't do that, but you can kill like 30 pigs in a day, but you have to have a tag for all these pigs.
ethan suplee
And if they're in San Jose, you can't hunt in...
joe rogan
Exactly.
ethan suplee
You gotta find them somewhere else.
joe rogan
Yeah, in a place like San Jose in an urban environment, I'm pretty sure you have to capture them.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
See if you can find wild pigs invade San Jose.
There was a news article that showed video...
jamie vernon
I'm trying to find something newer than October, so let's...
I have a bunch of stories from October, which was like six months ago.
unidentified
That's all right.
joe rogan
It doesn't matter.
You don't have to get newer.
Just show me some video because it's pretty crazy.
This guy's sitting in his house and he's watching these big ass fucking pigs just chew his lawn apart.
ethan suplee
Just in a city.
joe rogan
In a city.
unidentified
In a city house.
ethan suplee
Yeah, like a suburban house.
joe rogan
Nice suburban house.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Nice lawn.
Getting fucked up by pigs.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
That's crazy.
joe rogan
Well, a lot of them were brought over there.
But did we dispute this?
William Randolph Hearst was responsible for a lot of them.
ethan suplee
At the castle, he wanted pigs.
joe rogan
He wanted pigs.
He wanted a lot of other animals.
It's like, yeah, this is a city to allow archery to hunt wild pigs.
jamie vernon
It said they weren't going to.
ethan suplee
That's how you get around the gun.
joe rogan
Oh, they weren't going to?
jamie vernon
That's what I'm saying.
This is October 7th.
It was October 23rd.
It said they weren't.
I was trying to figure out if it said there were 24 pigs.
It was running around, so it doesn't sound like they could have caught all 24 pigs.
joe rogan
The problem with archery in the neighborhood is people suck.
You know, archery is hard to learn.
I don't want some guy who just picked up a fucking bow and he starts launching arrows into other people's yards and, you know, hits someone's window, hits a kid.
People are...
ethan suplee
I mean, it all seems like a bad idea in a neighborhood.
joe rogan
Yeah, you know, archery is tricky.
So some guys are trying to make it...
Often they have large teeth and are not afraid of people.
It's, yeah, hunting in a neighborhood is, any kind of archery hunting, like, telling someone they should archery hunt is like telling someone they should jiu-jitsu fight.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
You know what I mean?
Oh, okay, just go in there, jiu-jitsu, yeah, just go choke people.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's a lot of work involved, man.
You want to learn how to archery hunt?
Pigs?
Pigs are smart.
ethan suplee
It's a very specific skill that you have to spend a lot of time working on.
joe rogan
A lot of time.
And how are you going to get close enough to shoot that pig?
Because if you're not really good with a bow, you're going to have to figure out How to get 20 yards from it.
ethan suplee
Right.
They're going to run away.
joe rogan
Yeah.
You're not going to get 20 yards from a pig.
That's close, man.
20 yards is 20 steps.
Right.
Legitimately.
ethan suplee
I don't think that's going to work.
I can't picture myself getting maybe slightly closer to a chipmunk or a squirrel or something.
joe rogan
Maybe.
Maybe if they're near the tree.
ethan suplee
Right.
And they're super used to you being there.
joe rogan
Yeah.
My dog got a possum the other day.
And I think he thought he killed the possum.
It's kind of hilarious, because possums play possum.
My dog is a golden retriever.
He's not a vicious dog, but he got this possum, and now he has the craziest bloodlust.
It's so nuts.
All he wants to do is go out and find animals.
He's got this video game he's playing.
It's like he's an addict.
He just runs up to trees and he's looking for squirrels.
Where's my friend the possum?
The possum lived.
He didn't even make it bleed.
He just kind of attacked the possum, bit it, and then let it go, and it just laid there.
It's like this.
Possums, I don't understand what they're doing.
I don't know what kind of weird evolutionary benefit there would be in pretending to be dead.
ethan suplee
Maybe it's something like with your dog, didn't want to eat it.
He just wanted the thrill of killing it.
joe rogan
He definitely was trying to capture it.
I don't even think he necessarily wants to kill it.
I think what he really wants to do is bring it back to you.
His whole thing is, he's a retriever, his whole thing is bringing things back.
Yeah, you know, but when we found this he wasn't coming like I was go Marshall.
Come on, buddy.
Come on.
What's up, buddy?
And he wasn't coming.
I go Marshall.
Come on.
I'm like, what the fuck is going on?
And then we found out he had a possum and then we go to the possum of the possum's lineup.
First of all, possums have giant teeth.
Have you ever been up to one up close?
They look like predators, but they're not they like berries and nuts and shit.
ethan suplee
What are the teeth for?
joe rogan
I don't know, man, but they're giant.
Which is crazy, right?
You think they're going to defend themselves.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
But they don't even defend themselves.
They're just like...
They freeze up.
It's the craziest animal.
ethan suplee
And then Marshall wanted nothing to do with it after that.
joe rogan
Well, he did, but I could get him away.
He's a great dog.
He listens.
I'm like, come on, man, get the fuck away from that, because I didn't want to catch a disease or whatever.
And I was like, this thing's alive.
And so we just threw the thing over the fence, and it was alive.
And then eventually it got up and walked away.
ethan suplee
That's wild.
joe rogan
But what benefit does evolution...
I mean, what evolutionary benefit is there to just pretend you're dead?
ethan suplee
No, I mean, if most things are going to eat you, most things that capture you like that are going to eat you, there seems to be no benefit.
joe rogan
Google that.
Why do possums...
jamie vernon
I've already...
I'm there.
Past it.
joe rogan
Do they know?
jamie vernon
Is there a reason?
Because a lot of animals will not go after an already dead animal.
ethan suplee
Like that possum right there is alive.
joe rogan
Yes!
Dude, that's what it looked like.
It looked exactly like that.
Okay, many animals are turned off by dead prey, an evolutionary tactic that keeps carnivores from consuming diseased food.
Most predators will give up on prey that plays possum.
Huh.
jamie vernon
Yep, they go completely catatonic it says.
joe rogan
Wow.
It can take the marsupial anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours to become mobile again.
While they can survive these types of encounters, they can still be injured.
Scientists have found many possums in the wild wandering around with healed wounds and fractures likely from being attacked.
So playing possum isn't an act.
It's an involuntary reaction to threat.
Wow.
It's in tonic immobility or thanatosis.
And its body enters a catatonic state in response to fear.
So they just freeze up like a bitch.
In addition to seemingly feigning death, possums have other remarkable traits.
They have prehensile tails to climb tree branches.
They're immune to pit viper venom.
Females give birth to up to 18 babies at once, just 12 to 14 days after conception.
Holy shit!
ethan suplee
That's insane.
joe rogan
What a freaky animal.
ethan suplee
It worked.
They're still here.
joe rogan
Yeah, exactly, right?
ethan suplee
They also look scary as fuck.
Like, that thing looks like a giant rat.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I'm telling you, giant ass teeth.
This thing had giant teeth.
And it was just like lying there like this, like, ah.
These giant teeth.
And my dog is now obsessed with finding another one.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like in the middle of the night last night, what does it say here?
Here's a fun fact.
A possum means white dog in the Native American Algonquin language.
Huh.
White dog.
Well, they kind of look like a dog.
They kind of do a little bit, like a little weird...
Coyote-looking thing.
But yeah, now he's just completely obsessed with finding animals outside.
It's like it sparked some weird thing.
He's like, I didn't even know how much fun this is!
So that's like his favorite thing to do, other than chase a ball and go swimming.
ethan suplee
We need to find that as a culture.
And I say need because I needed to find that.
So that kind of urge to exist outside or just outside of my house, just doing something with my body.
This is an important thing.
It was very important to me.
I wouldn't recommend it for weight loss.
I think they're two completely separate things.
joe rogan
Right.
It's a primal switch that gets activated with just feeling your body move and feeling satisfaction in physical activity, right?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
And I say all that, and I'm like, if the dude who's a professional video game player loves to eat pizza and is perfectly happy, good for him.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
Good for him.
joe rogan
I was talking shit on professional video games once.
Oh boy, did they get upset.
But this is coming from someone who used to play a lot of video games.
I have addictive tendencies towards games.
unidentified
Me too.
joe rogan
Serious addictive tendencies where I can't play video games.
But the thing is, if you could play golf for a living, Why is golf better than a video game?
Because those video game guys make a shitload of money.
They do now.
ethan suplee
A shitload.
joe rogan
Yeah, and I think it's going to improve.
I think the shitload now is going to be more in a few years.
I think as these things get more and more immersive and then more and more people get involved and also in a lot of places people go to watch them play.
ethan suplee
Well, I mean, you see whole stadiums filled up, but there are a ton of people that make money at home Playing video games and people are tuning in to watch.
I don't understand any of this at all, but this is a real thing that our kids are growing up with.
joe rogan
I think for them, it's exciting.
Was it StarCraft in Korea where they have those giant stadiums full of people?
Starcraft.
ethan suplee
For video games.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
Have you ever seen it?
ethan suplee
No.
joe rogan
You need to watch this.
ethan suplee
I saw there was one.
A friend of mine's son was at one where a guy, I think his name is Ninja, won something.
And this was big in America.
But I didn't know they had specific stadiums for video games.
This is wild.
jamie vernon
Yeah, there's...
joe rogan
Starcraft is a particularly demanding strategy game that I've never played.
I don't really understand, but it's a top-down game and you're looking down on this world and you're moving these players around and doing all kinds of shit and you're doing many things simultaneously.
You're like playing war with these video game characters.
And you'll see enormous stadiums, like 15,000 people filled with cheering fans and giant screens watching this game play out.
jamie vernon
They're on the new games now, apparently.
This is not the current hot shit, if you will.
joe rogan
Starcraft 2?
jamie vernon
Yeah.
ethan suplee
That clip we saw of a video game was one guy controlling all those guys?
joe rogan
Yeah, that's what's nuts, man.
You move things around, you got a bunch of things happening.
But look at the size of the crowd, man.
ethan suplee
Wow.
joe rogan
This guy's a star.
He's walking through high-fiving people.
unidentified
Yes!
joe rogan
Look at that.
Look at that fucking crowd for a video game.
ethan suplee
It's not quite the Saitamo Super Arena.
joe rogan
Not quite, but it's up there.
ethan suplee
It's on its way.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's up there.
But I mean, you know, 15 years ago, this did not exist.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And now they're filling up arenas.
Like, 15 years from now, who fucking knows?
And you've got to imagine that the games these guys are able to develop now, in comparison to the games that will exist 15 years from now, they'll be even more immersive.
They'll either be...
Augmented reality or some form of virtual reality or some more insanely aggressively addictive version of these video games because they're so addictive.
ethan suplee
I was given, sometimes they give you presents.
You're gonna start a movie and they give you gifts, which is a bizarre thing to happen, but I was given an Xbox.
I was starting a movie, given an Xbox 15 or more years ago.
And I brought it home and my wife said, oh, that doesn't come in this house.
You can keep that in your trailer.
And then when you're done, you're done with it.
So I took it to my trailer.
And one day after work, I started playing a game that I was playing sporadically.
And the next thing I knew, they were knocking on my trailer like, oh, you're here.
Good.
We're ready for you in hair and makeup.
I sat in my trailer all night.
Playing a video game.
joe rogan
You didn't realize it?
ethan suplee
I mean, I knew it was late, but I wasn't...
No, I didn't realize that I was there for 10 hours.
joe rogan
So you never went to sleep?
ethan suplee
No.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
ethan suplee
And that was kind of when I knew video games were not for me.
It was a bad, dark road.
joe rogan
They're fucking crazy addictive, man.
And we've only begun to scratch the surface.
At my old studio, I had a virtual reality...
Two virtual reality setups.
I had an HTC Vive, and I had an Oculus.
And my kids would run to them when they came to the studio.
They would just run to the Oculus and put it on and start playing games.
They couldn't wait.
And I've had some people say that video games are like, I had a conversation.
You know Naval Ravikant?
You know who he is?
Fascinating guy, big tech guy, really brilliant person.
But he doesn't buy it.
He's like, nobody plays augmented or virtual reality.
He doesn't think it's really going to catch on.
I'm like, you need to see my kids.
They go bonkers for this shit.
Because you can box in it.
The boxing thing is a legitimate workout, man.
ethan suplee
You do become inside of the universe.
joe rogan
And you're boxing like some guy.
You're in a ring, and you look at him across the ring staring at you, and he's moving towards you.
And when he hits you, you see a flash of blinding light.
It's like, whoa!
Yeah, and it's a workout, man.
You get a good workout.
ethan suplee
I have a kid who believes very heavily in the simulation.
And she's also a nihilist, though.
She's 16, so it's a weird time for her.
unidentified
What happened?
ethan suplee
Sometimes she says she's an absurdist, and sometimes it's a nihilist, which I am happy that there's at least a distinction.
joe rogan
That just means she's very smart.
She's trying on these different schools of thought.
ethan suplee
Yes, and she will go into simulation theory, and I'm just like, if it's true, who cares?
We're here.
This is whatever.
Reality is what it is.
If it's fake, simulated reality, this is what we got.
joe rogan
That's one way of looking at it.
I had a conversation with Nick Ballstrom once, and he's a guy who believes in the simulation.
What does he do?
ethan suplee
That we're in the simulation?
Or that it's gonna happen?
joe rogan
No, that we're in it.
ethan suplee
Okay.
joe rogan
He was talking about probability theory.
And it was one of those conversations where I was like, ooh, I'm too dumb for this one.
Which happens quite a bit.
But with him, he was explaining how, because of probability theory, because we know that We know virtual reality exists.
We know that technology is ever evolving and that there's always constant innovation and then there's a real thirst for it.
We also know that wherever we are right now, if we can stay alive, whatever our technology is today will pale in comparison to the technology from a thousand years ago.
Then we know that there are literally hundreds of millions of stars in this galaxy.
Hundreds of billions.
Hundreds of billions of galaxies in the known universe each one of those Has who knows how many fucking stars each one of those has who knows how many planets So that means in some of these they've gone far past us if there is intelligent life out there in the universe Which they suppose there is right Someone has figured out how to make something that's indiscernible from this.
So if this is reality, if what you and I and Jamie and everybody else listening exist in is a real tangible reality that you can touch and feel and you can weigh and measure...
But that one day, we'll get to a place where there'll be an artificial reality that will be as amazing and as tactile as this, and you won't be able to tell the difference.
Nick Ballstrom's argument was, because of those facts, it's more likely that it's already existed, and that we're in it right now.
ethan suplee
I mean, again, that's a heavy thought to run through, and I think that's exactly what my kid was trying to tell me, and that's fine, but I don't know what I'd do with it.
joe rogan
It's just—Elon believes in it, too, by the way.
ethan suplee
He believes we're in it.
joe rogan
Yeah, he believes in the simulation.
Yeah.
ethan suplee
I believe it's—I mean, I don't know.
I just don't know what, like— If all of this is computer generated or artificially generated, then what do we do?
We keep doing what we're doing.
joe rogan
Maybe it's the wrong question.
Because we know for sure that at the lowest measurable or understandable level of reality, When you get to the quantum level, it's basically magic.
When I talked to Brian Green and he was trying to explain it to me, and again, too dumb for that conversation, I just did my best.
But you get to these super states where things are moving and they're also still...
ethan suplee
And they're existing two things.
One thing is existing in two places at once.
joe rogan
And then spooky action at a distance where somehow or another a particle in a long, far away place, far, far away place, Has an interaction with a particle that's here.
And vice versa.
ethan suplee
Yeah, they're entangled.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
How?
Who knows?
They don't know.
But they can kind of show it with mathematics.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
They can kind of show it with these calculations.
ethan suplee
And CERN is doing some weird shit, too.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
ethan suplee
Where they're looking at this kind of stuff.
Yeah.
You were talking before about how you had a guy coming who's dead set on belief in aliens.
Yeah.
Christopher Mellon.
All the shit that the Pentagon's releasing and all of that.
I talked to a guy – because I'm hyper-focused right now on diet and stuff like that.
But I remember reading Carl Sagan and him talking about how he thought that our first brush with extraterrestrials would be microorganisms.
And I was talking to a guy who is a professor at UCLA, Emron Meyer or Mayer.
And he was talking about our gut biome, how – There's more bacteria, individual organisms in our gut than there are stars in the galaxy.
joe rogan
Really?
ethan suplee
Something astronomical like that, yes.
And he said that these things act in an intelligent way and communicate with our brain in an intelligent way.
And that there's some kind of symbiosis there.
And that to me sounds like fucking aliens living in us already.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure, right?
We're an ecosystem.
ethan suplee
Yeah, and if something external that had no idea what we were were to perceive us in terms of living organisms, we would be the last because we're a single living organism with hundreds of billions of other organisms inside of us and around us and contributing to us and working together.
This is a wild thought.
joe rogan
It is a wild thought, and it seems like that That applies to every animal on Earth and all life on Earth, essentially, right?
Even plants have this crazy symbiotic relationship with fungus and with the nutrients that are in the ground.
I mean, when you think about what a probiotic is, right?
I love kombucha.
I drink a lot of kombucha.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're drinking a live organism, and it's healthy.
ethan suplee
And it's fueling all the other live organisms inside of you.
joe rogan
I describe it as like you've got a little army, and you put some healthy soldiers into your body with this kombucha.
That's kind of what a probiotic is.
Acidophilus, whatever you're taking, you're kind of like taking in some little soldiers to take care of a lot of stuff.
For jujitsu people, it's critical for avoiding skin diseases.
One of the things that comes up in jujitsu all the time is scratches.
ethan suplee
Staph.
joe rogan
Staph, yeah.
Scratches lead.
Ringworm, yeah.
And all those things can be at least somewhat mitigated with acidophilus and with various probiotics and then healthy soaps.
Like you don't want to use an antibacterial soap.
ethan suplee
Because you kill the good guys too.
joe rogan
Exactly.
So there's actually a company called Defense Soap.
And Defense Soap, shout out to my man Guy Sacco, who created Defense Soap.
He created it for grapplers and he created it for wrestlers and because a lot of these kids were getting sick and then they were using antibacterial soap, like they would get not sick, but they'd get little infections.
And so he came up with this defense soap which is mostly healthy oils like tea tree oil and eucalyptus and all those things they don't kill the bad bacteria but they fight off the bad bacteria and they keep the skin biome healthy.
And so there's a bunch of products that they've developed that are based on this principle that you're dealing with the surface of your skin.
It's an ecosystem, which is nuts.
You want to keep the soldiers happy.
ethan suplee
There's so many theories that you can run down to, like autoimmune disease and the rate of autoimmune in countries like America versus really, really third-world countries.
Where it just basically doesn't exist.
Now, I think the life expectancy might be lower, so that's not a good trade-off.
When you have stuff like your immune system and you're clearing it of everything that it's learned to fight over however long we've been here, and suddenly it has nothing to fight, it's going to find things to fight.
I think that that's the same with bacteria and all this stuff, and I know it's even kind of taboo in some circles to recommend eating vegetables.
I know carnivores are not super into vegetables, but Even the mitotoxins in vegetables, you're getting just enough of it that your body learns to fight it.
joe rogan
Right, that's hormesis, right?
ethan suplee
Hormesis, yeah.
joe rogan
I think that's the argument, unfortunately, that some epidemiologists have made about our current situation in terms of constantly sterilizing our hands and hand sanitizer and also not even being around people.
That our immune systems are atrophying, which is scary.
My kid right now, my youngest daughter, has a cold, an actual real cold.
I haven't seen a fucking cold in forever.
When was the last time you saw a cold?
ethan suplee
A year and a half.
joe rogan
We tested her for the Rona.
She's already had it.
ethan suplee
She had corona?
unidentified
Yes.
ethan suplee
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
Which was nothing.
This cold is way worse than corona.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
She's coughing, running nose, she feels like shit, but she's just watching TV and chilling.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
But it was crazy.
It's like, oh, you got a cold.
Huh, forgot about those.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, kids always get colds.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
And, you know, no colds.
ethan suplee
Right.
Because of no contact.
joe rogan
Yeah, no contact.
ethan suplee
So we're not building up immunities today.
joe rogan
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, it's critical for children.
And, you know, you know, because you have kids as well, like, those little fuckers are Petri disters.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
They go to school and they come back with all kinds of stuff.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You get it and, yeah.
ethan suplee
There's a huge period of time where kids' fingers are just dirty and sticky no matter what.
You wash them all day long.
They just appear dirty and sticky again.
Like, they're running around licking their hands and touching the floor.
joe rogan
Yep.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's nature, right?
When you see babies, they're always sticking things in their mouth and touching things and dirt.
It's like nature's trying to get them to do that, I guess.
ethan suplee
I have a hard time rationalizing some of this stuff when it becomes these absolutes of everybody must do this.
And again, I go like, well...
Do we all have exactly the same values?
I don't know that that's true and if that's not true, then this sounds to me like a religious position that we're making.
But I try to understand these things and I was speaking with a guy who studied epidemiology at UCLA and he said they had a large sign that was a constant reminder to them every day and it just said, everybody lies.
What a fucking weird sign.
The idea is, because I was asking, if somebody's had corona, why are they pushing so hard for them to get vaccinated when the amount of reinfection doesn't look to be any worse than breakthrough infection post-vaccination?
Yeah.
What's the point there?
And his point was, well, in epidemiology, you learn that everybody lies.
So your aunt, who never got tested but had a bad cold back in March and is convinced she had corona, might not get the vaccine when she might not have had corona.
And so, therefore, they're going forward with everybody must get the vaccination as this kind of...
But I think it's interesting to think about that.
Like, everybody lies and...
I don't think they mean it necessarily even intentionally.
joe rogan
They mean play it safe.
ethan suplee
Play it safe or even just like, I'm counting calories but I'm going to not measure my ketchup.
Are you really counting calories?
You know what I mean?
Ketchup's got calories.
A lot.
joe rogan
A lot of sugar.
ethan suplee
I'm counting calories but I'm going to eat...
Four pounds of broccoli today.
At some point, that's going to add up.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's amazing how much a handful of almonds.
Yeah.
Handful of almonds, like 500 calories or something crazy.
ethan suplee
Dude, when I was keto, I would get bags of macadamia nuts at Trader Joe's and never look at the caloric value of them and eat them.
I could just eat this full of fat and it's so good.
And then I'm not losing weight and I'm eating bacon for breakfast, like a Package of bacon for breakfast, a steak for lunch, snacking on macadamia nuts all day, and not losing weight and fucking pulling my hair out because it didn't seem to be working.
At some point, you can't eat more than your body needs or you're going to hold on to weight.
This is just the way that works.
If keto gets you to a place where...
You're going to be able to not eat enough to lose weight.
That's great.
That's perfectly great.
But if you're eating fucking heavy whipping cream on everything, this might not be the solution.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's no miracle when it comes to weight loss.
That's a fact.
And calories in versus calories out is real.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's real.
The difference between keto and other diets is once your body gets into that fat burning state, it becomes easier to eat less.
ethan suplee
There you go.
joe rogan
But you still have to be disciplined because macadamia nuts still taste fucking good.
unidentified
Yeah.
ethan suplee
And then like a sicko like me, I'm reading all the keto recipes of like how to make bagels with pork rinds and heavy whipping cream and cream cheese.
You know what I mean?
And convinced that this is going to work.
But I'm eating 5,000 calories a day in fat and not losing weight.
joe rogan
The only thing that I did ever when I went on a diet to lose weight was that carnivore diet.
But the reason why is because when you're not eating the pasta and the rice and all that stuff, like a salad or anything like that, the steak itself is enough.
It does satisfy you.
But I could have definitely eaten other shit.
ethan suplee
Like a loaf of bread.
joe rogan
If there was a loaf of bread, I would have chowed that too.
And that would have been additional calories that I really didn't need to be satisfied.
But if you're just eating steak, you get to the end of that 16-ounce ribeye, and you're like, I'm done.
I'm done.
I'm good.
I'm not a full, like a glutton, like what I like to be.
I am.
Yeah, but you can get to this place where your body is in sort of a calorie deficit and also not as much calories as I'm accustomed to eating because I do eat a lot of food.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
I eat a lot of food too.
I just – I've – you know – The idea of maintenance, this was something that I never went into any diet thinking about.
I never went into any diet thinking about, like, how...
Once I lose weight, how am I going to eat to keep it off?
This was not a thought.
The thought was always, my problem is I'm fat.
Once I lose my weight, I will have solved my problem and all will be well.
And then I arrive at, well, shit, now I'm gaining weight, so I'll just kind of do this diet again sporadically.
Um...
I work my fucking ass off for a couple of years just on maintenance and not even when I was at my goal.
Like, let me figure out what it is to eat because I trampled over all the physical signs of, like, satiation.
Like, I don't know what it is to eat a meal and go, like, I've had enough.
I don't know what that is.
I eat until I'm I'm practically nauseous.
That's how I eat.
And I do it in private because I don't want people to watch me eat like that.
And I hate these cringy words like mindfulness.
This word makes me sick to my stomach too.
However, if I sit by myself and actually look at what I'm eating and eat it with some sense of purpose, this has helped.
It's unfortunate the hippy-dippy shit has helped a little bit.
joe rogan
Yeah, the hippy-dippy shit is real.
The problem is so many hippy-dippy people are so fucking annoying.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
They ruin these good hippy-dippy phrases and words and ideas.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, mindfulness is a legit concept.
ethan suplee
Yeah, but it's been ruined because it's awful.
joe rogan
Ruined.
It's awful.
Spirituality.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I'm spiritual.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
I'm not religious.
I'm spiritual.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Here's my favorite one.
I'm living my truth.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
What the fuck are you saying?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
Just don't let your truth fuck with my truth.
joe rogan
You have your own truth?
Holy shit!
Yeah.
When you said you were on a liquid diet, how did you do that?
ethan suplee
I was doing a movie in Romania.
joe rogan
What was the movie?
ethan suplee
Cold Mountain, 2002. And I had this brutal experience on a plane with a conversation with a guy who I think was very – meant well.
But, you know, honestly, he framed it all in terms of like his relationship with Christ and how my relationship with Christ was clearly lacking because I was a mess.
And that was his value.
He was concerned for me, was basically at the root of it, and expressing that concern.
I think anytime somebody tells me or has, you know, I don't want to talk really about masks or anything like that, but this is also very much like we don't all have to share the same values, but I recognize that when somebody's telling me I need to live a certain way, this is just them imposing their values on me.
This is not...
Anything more than that.
And so I'm a little open and I go, okay, I understand where that's coming from.
You know, I don't want to upset anybody.
He had this conversation with me on a plane.
I landed and I started to think about, like, what am I doing?
Like, I just hadn't been thinking about it.
What am I going to do with my life?
What do I want to do?
Like, I have trouble going to the beach with my girlfriend at the time.
She likes to go on hikes.
I don't fucking go on.
I'm not going on a hike.
I don't even like walking around the block at that point.
And I called her up and it was the most bizarre feeling because I am objectively 550 pounds at this point and I had to talk to her about wanting to change my weight and it felt as though I was telling her a secret.
Like, I felt like I was gonna tell her something she didn't know.
Like, if you couldn't tell, I'm morbidly obese.
Nothing could be more evident.
And in this conversation, she was like, okay, what do you want to do?
And I was like, well, I want to lose weight.
And she said, good, as soon as you get home, I'll have something ready for you.
And when I landed, she picked me up and she had this whole liquid meal plan ready that was full of like fiber pills and vitamins and shakes.
And that's what I ate for 60 days.
joe rogan
And how much weight did you lose in 60 days?
ethan suplee
80 pounds.
joe rogan
That's incredible in and of itself.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wow.
ethan suplee
And that weight I never put back on.
joe rogan
So when you lost that, did you decide at one point in time, I can't do this anymore?
ethan suplee
Yeah, I mean, I was cold all the time, and I would start to...
unidentified
Cold?
ethan suplee
Yeah, freezing cold all the time, which I'm a really...
I run really hot.
Like, I can sweat just standing up, and this, I was, like, not quite shivering, but I was really cold, and...
joe rogan
Where do they think that's from?
ethan suplee
I don't know.
Just being malnourished.
joe rogan
Oh.
ethan suplee
And when I would stand up, my vision would go dark, and then come back, and I had, like, a...
An eight-week break from this movie, and I did it then, but I don't think I could be at work feeling like that.
joe rogan
I understand.
Yeah, you wouldn't be able to concentrate.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wow, that's crazy that you would go dark when you got up.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
Like, all the way, no eyes open but black, and then it would slowly come back.
And I'd have to hold on to shit because I felt like I was going out.
Wow.
Yeah.
joe rogan
So that has to be some sort of blood sugar thing, I would imagine?
unidentified
Yeah.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
I don't actually know, but probably.
Sounds right.
joe rogan
I don't know either.
We just guessed.
ethan suplee
You've been choked out.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Not unconscious.
Not totally unconscious.
ethan suplee
Really?
joe rogan
No, I always tap.
ethan suplee
Okay.
I didn't even know it was happening.
It happened to me once.
And I thought, like, no, I can get out of this, and then I was just unconscious.
But I remember my vision starting to go, and that's the sign I should have paid attention to.
joe rogan
I flew in an FA-18 once with the Blue Angels, and I blacked out.
Yeah.
See, the problem is, I made it to way higher Gs, and I didn't black out, and then we were on one turn, and I just, I'm like, I got this.
And then I'm like...
ethan suplee
Just the blood goes somewhere else.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
We were doing seven and a half Gs, which is, for those guys, is nothing.
But for me, it was like, What the fuck?
When you feel that pressure, it's crazy.
We're banking into a turn.
I wish I could remember the gentleman who was flying, but he was a fucking stud.
And these guys are all, like, super jacked.
And one of the reasons why they're jacked is because they have to force blood into their brain while they're flying.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
So as they're holding onto the thing, he's going like this.
unidentified
Hoot!
Hoot!
joe rogan
So you're forcing blood into your head as you're banking.
And we're like...
And I could see it like an elevator door, like my consciousness closing in.
And I'm fighting.
I'm going...
And they could get to like seven, ten, nine, you know, they go way higher than seven and a half, what I did.
And I was fine with that.
And then as we were coming in, we did this other hard turn.
We were only like at four and a half G's or something like that.
And then I got up, threw up.
ethan suplee
I was like, damn it!
joe rogan
I was almost home!
ethan suplee
This was every time I stood up doing a liquid diet.
Vision black.
joe rogan
And then once you got back on food, did it all come back?
Your heat and everything?
ethan suplee
Yes, that all came back.
But I was on a very, very low calorie diet when I started eating.
And I ate that way for another few months.
So I continued to lose weight far, far more slowly.
But then even then, I was still doing like under a thousand calories a day, but I was eating solid food.
joe rogan
Have you ever heard of the story of the man who fasted for 365 days and he, do you know this guy?
ethan suplee
I don't know him, but I have heard about him.
joe rogan
He drank only water and took in vitamins, I think IV vitamins, I forget how they did it, but this guy lost an insane amount of weight and the crazy thing is his skin shrank.
ethan suplee
Yeah, that's...
I mean, listen, I don't want to say that's something that's not really talked about enough amongst people who have massive weight loss.
And I find that people who start to lose a lot of weight are suddenly confronted with this fact that they have billowing skin and it's shocking and very upsetting.
And I think that guy's an outlier because I did read about him.
Mostly people are going to have a lot of excess skin.
joe rogan
The thought was that maybe because the fact the guy was ketogenic for the entire 365 days a year and his body was consuming fat, that it also consumed skin as well.
ethan suplee
I don't think that's scientifically possible.
joe rogan
But do you know of any other outliers that lost a shit ton of weight and didn't have any loose skin?
ethan suplee
No.
I don't know of anybody.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's what's weird, right?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
And I was ketogenic for hundreds of pounds of weight loss and still had loose skin.
And then I got skin surgery and then gained weight again.
Like I've done every awful thing you could do with weight loss.
joe rogan
I think it's more than even ketogenic because this guy's body was literally living off itself.
It's not like he was taking in macadamia nuts or whatever.
He's living off his own tissue.
And I wonder if that was the catalyst.
ethan suplee
I just don't think skin is bioavailable in that way.
joe rogan
But muscle is.
ethan suplee
Muscle is, and fat is, but I don't think you can disintegrate, consume your skin in that way.
From what I've read, skin as an organ...
Is elastic, and when you fill it up, it's built to be stretched.
But if you keep it filled up for too long, and it can't stretch from that point, it then goes like, oh shit, we have a new settling point.
We're going to now grow to this size, and so that we can be elastic again.
Because your body...
Unfortunately, we'll always store fat.
Your body wants to store fat.
Your body understands famine, and it understands when there's excess, you store it if you can.
You want to do that.
joe rogan
Your body's not concerned with being thin and looking good.
Your body wants to stay alive.
ethan suplee
It doesn't give a fuck.
And being fat will save you if there's a famine, and it takes a hell of a lot longer to kill you than starving.
You can starve to death pretty quick.
joe rogan
Isn't that crazy that your body lives in the same space as your brain?
Your brain wants you to look good, but your body's like, shut the fuck up and make me fat.
ethan suplee
This food's gonna go away.
The five days worth of food you can get at the gas station for two bucks, that's gonna go away.
It's gonna disappear.
You're gonna starve.
Eat it all.
Store the fat.
You'll be safe.
joe rogan
What a weird battle.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Your brain and your body play with each other.
It really is strange.
unidentified
It's fucked.
ethan suplee
And then if you want to lose weight and retain muscle mass, you got to convince your body that you're doing shit with it to survive.
So you got to lift heavy things so that your body doesn't consume your muscles.
Those are like the key things to if you want to lose weight because muscle requires energy.
It requires food.
So you can eat a little bit more if you have a little bit more muscle.
This is the benefit of having muscles.
joe rogan
Yeah, and what it takes to gain muscle, most people don't understand.
They think you lift weights, you gain muscle.
No, no, no.
You have to lift weights, and then you have to tell your body, hey, motherfucker, we're going to do this all the time.
You better grow.
ethan suplee
And it's going to get heavier.
joe rogan
And it's going to suck.
You have to feel like, oh, you have to like, oh.
We're stretching and everything's sore.
That is the only way your body's like, okay, this asshole's just gonna pick up heavy things every fucking day.
We need more resources.
We need more tissue.
That's it!
And then your appetite kicks in.
ethan suplee
And you're eating more.
joe rogan
Oh yeah, when I lift weights, especially heavy, I am so fucking hungry.
Because your body's like, hey bitch, time to grow.
You gonna make me do this?
Why are we carrying things?
Isn't this a new world?
We have machines to carry things?
ethan suplee
Why are you carrying things?
You should be playing video games.
joe rogan
What's wrong Why are you farmer walking with two 72-pound kettlebells, you piece of shit?
ethan suplee
And didn't you know at the gas station, you can get all the food you need for the month, and it won't go bad for 20 bucks.
joe rogan
What is happening to that stuff inside your body?
ethan suplee
It's fermenting.
It's turning to formaldehyde.
joe rogan
I avoid that stuff as often as possible, but every time I do eat processed food, my body's like, what is this nonsense?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
I have a weird thing where I can eat sugar if I'm in the gym.
Like, if I'm in the gym, lifting weights, and I have a Gatorade, I feel fucking awesome.
I feel like Superman.
If I have a Gatorade late at night or a bowl of ice cream, I wake up hungover and feel like I'm dying.
It's crazy.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, when I eat ice cream and then go to bed, I will have this horrible feeling in the middle of the night where my stomach's like...
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I almost have a headache.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
Like, it's just...
Your body doesn't want...
But a hard weightlifting session and then a Snickers bar, like, you feel pretty fucking good.
Because you can use it.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You actually can use it.
ethan suplee
When I was riding bikes a lot, some of the old pros would say, like, and I'd have, like, you know...
Non-GMO fucking health bars and electrolytes without sugar and all this stuff.
And we get to the top of the hill and they'd have a Snickers and a Coke.
And they would literally say, like, this is the perfect, perfect meal for right now.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's what Floyd Mayweather uses.
After it works out, he drinks Coke.
Yeah.
Which is crazy.
ethan suplee
And his body, it's like rocket fuel.
It's high octane.
I don't actually know how gas works, but it's something that sounds like high octane is for a fast car.
joe rogan
I know, it's a thing that trainers actually recommend, which is nuts.
They'll tell you, yeah, a sugary soft drink is actually very good after a workout.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
unidentified
Like, what?
ethan suplee
I mean, this is the idea that food is fuel, right?
That we are actually...
Could you imagine if every night the leftover gas in your car would make your car heavier and you'd still need to put gas in the next day?
Like, you would start to fucking figure out exactly how much gas you needed.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
We don't do that.
joe rogan
Right, right.
You'd be like, this fucking stupid car is so fat.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
I would like to drive to your house, Mom, but my car is fat.
unidentified
Right.
ethan suplee
It's slow.
joe rogan
It'll never make it.
ethan suplee
I've been over gassing it for years.
It's got clogged fucking hoses.
joe rogan
Those wheels hurt.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
It's just miserable.
It's riding low.
They're all fucking half deflated.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Treating your body like a machine.
I always call my body my meat vehicle.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
But treating it like a machine is so difficult because it's interconnected with all these feelings and pangs, hunger pangs, and there's so much going on, emotions.
ethan suplee
And in America, we celebrate everything with food.
joe rogan
Oh yeah.
ethan suplee
Every holiday is about food.
I get so over it at Thanksgiving.
Like, we're gonna do this again?
And then Christmas is just a string of events where we're eating.
joe rogan
Yeah, the turkey industry celebrates Thanksgiving.
The turkey industry and then the pumpkin industry is really pumped about October.
Yeah.
And Halloween rolls around.
Like, who the fuck else would be buying pumpkins?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
If there wasn't for Halloween, how many pumpkins will we sell in this country?
Three?
Three pumpkins?
Pumpkin pie, I guess, actually.
ethan suplee
Pumpkin pie is pretty good.
joe rogan
Pretty goddamn good.
ethan suplee
But you don't want to eat it all the time.
I mean, I don't.
unidentified
If it's right there, some whipped cream.
joe rogan
Pumpkin pie is pretty fucking good.
ethan suplee
Lots of whipped cream.
joe rogan
I changed my mind.
I'm back on a pumpkin.
ethan suplee
We need more pumpkins.
joe rogan
But have you ever had baked pumpkin?
ethan suplee
No.
joe rogan
It's pretty good.
ethan suplee
I've had baked squash.
It can't be much different.
joe rogan
Yeah, I like spaghetti squash.
ethan suplee
Yeah, delicious.
joe rogan
Spaghetti squash with marinara sauce is almost as good as pasta.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Sometimes better.
ethan suplee
Have you ever had these kelp noodles?
joe rogan
No.
ethan suplee
There are kelp noodles nowadays, and one of my kids was eating them, and I was just like, this is stupid.
Kelp noodles are stupid.
But then I tried them, and I couldn't...
I mean, they're not exactly the same.
There's a little bit more of a crunch, so you imagine if it's like super al dente pasta.
But they're fucking good.
You put some tomato sauce on them.
unidentified
Really?
ethan suplee
It's pretty good, yeah.
joe rogan
I've had hemp pasta.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
I like hemp pasta.
ethan suplee
Is that lowering calories?
joe rogan
I don't know.
I think it has protein, though.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
That's the thing about hemp pasta.
There used to be...
There's a protein spaghetti that I used to buy, but oh my god, the farts.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
They were out of this world.
They're like, what is happening in my body?
But it might have been.
I would eat this protein pasta with marinara sauce with tuna.
And this was when I was a young single man.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
I would boil the pasta, and then I would take the sauce and dump a can of tuna into the sauce, stir it up, pour it on together, and then just thank god I was alone.
ethan suplee
Right.
But that's a ton of protein.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Oh, a ton of protein.
But...
Yeah, I don't think my body enjoyed it.
And I don't know if it was the pasta or the combination of the pasta with the sauce and the tuna as well, but all together.
ethan suplee
When I upped my protein, I started paying attention to how much protein I got every day, and I actually had to increase my protein.
If I would fuck up and miss a meal and wind up with like, I got 100 grams of protein left towards the end of the day, and I'd eat it all at once, which is a fucking shitload of protein to consume at one time, the gas, Everybody in my house would be furious with me.
I mean, like, really fucking awful.
So that, you know, and I have my coach, Jared Feather, again, amazing guy.
He would program me and he would say, you know, like, you eat 25 grams in this meal and 50 grams in this meal and spread it out throughout the day.
And I'd go like, yeah, okay, but...
If I get to the end of the day and I've only eaten one meal, I'll just eat everything then because I kind of like just fucking eating until I'm stuffed.
And you'd go, that's a bad idea for a number of reasons.
I'd go, okay, but does it really matter?
And then the gas actually got me to spread it out.
unidentified
Yeah.
ethan suplee
Which is beneficial.
joe rogan
Have you ever heard of the warrior diet?
That's when people eat one meal a day?
unidentified
Yes.
ethan suplee
If I was going to try to cram 250 to 270 grams of protein into one meal a day, it would be a disaster.
It would be a fucking disaster.
joe rogan
I think that goes to the biodiversity thing.
Some people can do it.
Some people like it that way.
I know quite a few people that eat one strong meal a day.
Mark Sisson, wasn't he saying that?
Wasn't Mark saying he eats one meal a day often?
He's the guy that wrote that book, The Primal Blueprint.
He had all sorts of arthritis and all sorts of issues with his joints and cut out, for him, this is his thing, he cut out all bread, all pasta, all grains, and just started eating Completely unprocessed food, eats a lot of grass-fed steak, eats a lot of just vegetables, and it all went away.
And then he feels infinitely better and wrote this book about how to cook and how to eat with completely unprocessed food.
But he now, but he's in his 60s, very fit.
He's my canary in a coal mine.
When I see a dude in his 60s, it gets after as much as that guy does.
But, you know, he exercises, but he doesn't kill himself.
But he looks great.
He's got a full six-pack.
As far as an older guy, he looks amazing.
And I'm pretty sure he only eats once a day for the most part.
Occasionally he'll have a light breakfast or something like that, but he's got his body kind of dialed in to where he needs it and what to eat.
Most of my friends, though, that are athletes, particularly fighters, they eat all throughout the day.
A lot of them carry around those little Tupperware containers and they'll eat multiple meals a day.
ethan suplee
I take that to work.
I don't fuck with food at work anymore.
joe rogan
Craft service?
ethan suplee
Yeah, I don't fuck with it.
joe rogan
Craft service can get you, man.
unidentified
It's deadly, dude.
joe rogan
You start grazing.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I see people just walking by their craft service like, hmm, what do we got here, a bagel?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
M&M's?
ethan suplee
And then they like serve a weird meal.
They come around with sandwiches halfway through the morning and there's still the table over there.
It's psychotic.
And in fairness, like a gripper, an electrician who's picking up heavy things all day, I understand that guy needs to eat throughout the day, but I, who am a fucking dumb actor, who mostly just standing around saying words, it's not physically demanding.
joe rogan
Right.
It's like a luxury thing, though.
They want you to feel like you're catered to, like as if you went to a resort and they walked by, would you like some ice cream?
unidentified
Yes, I would.
joe rogan
I'm on vacation.
ethan suplee
Anything you can think of, we have it somewhere.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
Okay.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Those habits that people develop at work, I knew a lot of people that would act and they would be on sets and they would gain weight every time they would be on a set because that craft service table they'll set up.
Especially if it's a good craft service one with the bagels and the locks.
Fucking hard to avoid, man.
Especially in the morning when you're tired.
When I'm tired, I have fucking zero willpower.
When I'm tired, like when I come home and I'm hungry, I'm tired, it's like fast food, whatever.
It's been proven, I believe, that your body reacts differently to cravings when you're tired and you make poor choices.
ethan suplee
Yeah, this is one of the habits that I've worked on really hard at changing is like I don't do anything hungry and I don't go to the grocery store hungry.
I don't start cooking hungry.
If I start cooking my dinner and I'm starving, My pour of the olive oil is heavier.
You know what I mean?
My portion of the rice, I'm smashing it into that cup to make sure the cup has really two cups in it.
Like, just accidentally.
joe rogan
Yeah.
What kind of exercise are you doing these days?
ethan suplee
I just lift weights.
joe rogan
Just weights.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
Six days a week.
And for cardio, it's mostly walking around.
I take my dogs on a walk.
I get on an elliptical machine, but I'm never doing, like, HIIT-type stuff.
joe rogan
I like ellipticals for, you could pretend you're working out, like you're working out, but you can watch TV. Yeah.
Because you just kind of can get into a movie, and the next thing you know, you're like, oh, I'm fucking 150 beats a minute.
Look at me.
I'm getting after it.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
My heart rate's spiked.
ethan suplee
I can do an elliptical for a long time, and it doesn't have, it's like, I don't want my heart rate too high.
So if I'm trying to keep it steady, that's a great thing to do.
joe rogan
Why do you want your heart rate low?
ethan suplee
I just don't want to tap into any...
I don't want to, like, for the time being, if I'm...
Like, when I was just hyper-focused on I want to lose weight, I just want to get small, then I had a lot more cardio in my routine.
And right now, I want to preserve every single gram of muscle I have.
I don't want to give it up.
And since I've been basically in some kind of caloric deficit for so long...
If I work too hard or if the deficit slips too much, it's gonna tap into, it's gonna use some lean tissue too.
joe rogan
So you're just into getting jacked right now.
ethan suplee
That's it.
I just want abs, dude.
I got to 200 pounds, I was...
Doing eight hours of cardio a day on a bike, and I didn't have abs, and it was really fucking disappointing.
Now, all that said, I have loose skin, so it's like, you see those big muscle guys in loose shirts, and they don't, they just still, that's still what I got, because I got loose skin hangover, but downlighting.
You get all the right things.
You can see abs, which is nice.
joe rogan
Are you doing a lot of abdominal exercises?
ethan suplee
None.
joe rogan
None?
ethan suplee
Almost none.
joe rogan
How come?
ethan suplee
I feel like I get them with bench press and squats.
They're all kind of activated.
I do a little bit, but I'm not hyper-focused on doing abs.
I'm also not building muscle right now.
joe rogan
I think...
I mean, you can get abs just by being lean.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
You will look good.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
By being lean.
But if you want, like, thick, boom, boom.
ethan suplee
Like, distended, yeah.
joe rogan
Thick, big muscles.
ethan suplee
You gotta do it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I do it because it protects everything, too.
It protects my spine.
It protects...
ethan suplee
Like you're super core focused?
joe rogan
Yeah, really.
Because everything I do, whether it's kickboxing or jujitsu, it's very core focused.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
So it makes a big difference to have a strong back and strong abs.
So I do a lot of reverse hyper.
I use that machine a lot.
I do sit-ups on that thing.
What's it called?
The glute ham GHB? Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
It's like...
ethan suplee
Looks like a really extended sit-up, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, exactly.
I do a lot of those, and I do back extensions on those too.
So I'm working my lower back with a reverse hyper.
I'm working it again with the back extensions.
I'm doing my abs with that.
Have you ever seen the ab mat?
You know what those are?
Rogue makes it.
Rogue Fitness.
I love it.
It's crazy, this little hump.
It's not high.
It's this little hump.
But it makes such a difference in, like, a sit-up.
Because if your back is flat on the ground, it's so much easier to sit up than it is with just this little hump.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
It's so strange.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, you would think, like, what is this little bitch-ass hump?
That doesn't matter.
But it does.
That thing right there.
That's what I have.
That little hump.
When you go down, first of all, it protects your butt and keeps you from getting torn up on the floor.
But that thing right there, the ab mat, I fucking love that thing.
ethan suplee
I like the crack there, too.
That's convenient.
joe rogan
Yeah, where your legs and your old saccaroony can sort of nestle itself in the middle there.
But when you use that for sit-ups, it makes the sit-ups more demanding.
And then I do these other sit-ups with kettlebells.
I forget what they're called.
There's a name for it.
ethan suplee
Like where it's on your chest?
joe rogan
No.
No, I put my feet in two kettlebells.
So I'll take like two 50s and I'll hang them over my toes.
And then I'll take two other 50s and I'll sit back and I'll sit up with the kettlebells.
So I'll force myself to like press these kettlebells and then...
I'm raising it up so it's a strong abdominal exercise that you really can only do like 10 reps or so in.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's just really good for developing all that muscle.
And then I love Turkish get-ups too.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because Turkish get-ups works the whole core.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
Those are gnarly.
I did read an article once years ago when I was super cardio focused that said that this overweight power lifter really wanted abs and the way he got them is he did this kettlebell thing where he did a thousand swings a day for ten days.
And I did that and I didn't get abs.
And I was like, fucking, I'm over it.
This is bullshit.
joe rogan
How was he doing it?
How did he get 1,000 swings a day for 10 days and that gave him abs?
ethan suplee
I don't know because that's not the way it works.
But this was back in the day where I wasn't really paying attention to how stuff actually worked.
joe rogan
I mean, it engages your abs for sure.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But I would imagine it's more like your lower back and your hams.
ethan suplee
I couldn't sit on a toilet on day three.
It was awful.
joe rogan
Hamstrings?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Really?
It was all hamstrings?
unidentified
Yeah.
ethan suplee
I mean, that was the thing that fired the most for me was hamstrings.
And by the 10th day, they were okay again, but day three and four, I wasn't sitting down.
It was really painful.
joe rogan
When I realized how weak my hamstrings are was when I got this device called a monkey feet.
You know what monkey feet is?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
It's the thing you strap onto your foot and you put a dumbbell in it.
So, like, your foot is grabbing.
And then I'll do, like, leg curls, like I would do arm curls with my legs.
ethan suplee
Oh, fuck.
joe rogan
And I'm like, Jesus Christ, I'm so weak.
Like, I thought my legs were strong as fuck.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
But, like, doing curls with my legs, doing that, it's very weak.
But it also allows you to do things for your hip flexors.
So you can lift...
Like knee raises while holding on to like a 35-pound dumbbell with this thing at the bottom of your foot.
And some guys work up to 45 pounds, 55 pounds.
And you could really build the muscle tissue in your hamstrings and your hip flexors in a way that you kind of can do by holding something in your arm.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
I do mostly straight leg deadlifts for hamstrings.
joe rogan
Those are good too.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
But again, I thought it was a lot stronger.
I thought my hamstrings were a lot stronger than they were.
And in jujitsu, hamstrings really come into play because you want to squeeze someone and hold them in place.
And you sort of develop that strength just from grappling, but you certainly can enhance it with lifting weights with your hamstrings.
The best way I've found is with these monkey feet things, because it forces it to act as an individual unit.
It forces it to balance the weight and maneuver it, and I think it gets all those stabilizing muscles.
ethan suplee
I trained with Eddie Bravo a long time ago, and I have gigantic legs, very, very strong legs, as you know somebody who carried around 550 pounds would have.
And I would go around to other places.
Whenever I'd travel, I'd find somebody and go do a private somewhere.
And I was like, I'm going to throw fucking lockdown on Marcel Garcia and see if my legs are really strong.
They weren't shit.
Nothing.
They did nothing.
He was like, oh, that hook, that's interesting.
And just fucking came right out.
joe rogan
You're talking about the master.
ethan suplee
I know.
I didn't think I was going to actually do anything beyond that.
I just thought I could throw the lock down on him.
joe rogan
And hold him in place.
ethan suplee
And show him, like, this is what real strong legs are.
Because he's got pretty good calves, too.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
That's a big part of Marcelo's game is his control with his legs.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
And his arms are not big.
They're very small.
That's one of the reasons why they're very big.
But that's all genetic, right?
And that's one of the reasons why Marcelo always avoids what he calls strongman moves.
Like, Marcelo never uses Kimuras, because he feels like Kimuras are a strongman move, which is really interesting.
But a lot of guys who even, like Gabe Tuttle, who's the head coach at 10th Planet in Austin, he uses Kimoras, and he's a small guy, but he likes Kimoras to set up other things.
So he uses Kimoras because when you have to defend Kimoras, then it sets up back attacks, it sets up arm bars and triangles.
There's different things that happen, so as you clamp onto that Kimura and pull it, the guy has to react, and then you use that, because it's a very predictable action, right?
If you have a hold of a person's arm and you're threatening with a Kimura, there's not a whole lot of things they have to do, or they can do, rather.
So you've got this thing and you're yanking it back like that.
They kind of have to do that.
Right.
So as you anticipate that, then you transition to a triangle or you transition to something else or take the back.
There's a whole series, I think David Avalon has a whole series of Kimura traps and how they call it a Kimura trap.
You're setting up, you're using this attack and you can finish with that attack if you get it, but you're setting up a bunch of other stuff.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
But Marcelo didn't even fuck with it.
He's like, I'm just strangling bitches.
ethan suplee
Right.
I'm just going to hold them with my legs and strangle them.
joe rogan
Yeah, his arm bars are great.
Everything is great for sure, but man, he would get your back.
Marcelo got the back.
I remember I was in Brazil in 2003 and I saw him put Shaolin to sleep.
He arm dragged, and no one knew who Marcelo was at the time.
But he arm-dragged him and then took the back and the two of them were rolling.
They're spinning on the mat.
And by the time the spin was done, Shaolin was unconscious.
It was wild.
ethan suplee
That's awesome.
joe rogan
And it was quick.
See if you can find that.
unidentified
He was...
joe rogan
Marcelo Garcia versus Shaolin 2003 Abu Dhabi.
And I remember being...
I was right there, man.
I was in the stands like 20 yards away watching him do this.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
unidentified
Whoa!
joe rogan
Watch this.
So they're tying up.
Look at this.
Arm drag, take the back and spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin.
And by the time he gets to here, he's out fucking cold.
They're He's trying to resist as much as he can.
So they're still spinning.
And then by the time...
Look at those fucking legs he has.
He's out cold.
That's awesome.
And Shaolin is a world-class black belt.
ethan suplee
And this is when...
Is this what made Marcelo Garcia Marcelo Garcia?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Yeah, this was when the world first found Marcelo Garcia.
Shaolin was already a known black belt.
But show that again, because the way he did it by this arm drag...
So they're tying up...
And this is early in the match too, man.
Look at this.
He kind of pulls guard, uses his legs to upset the balance, and then holds him in place with his legs as he spins and takes the back.
And then Shaolin is defending the best he can, but Marcelo just...
Again, not big arms, but perfect technique.
ethan suplee
But look at how big his legs are compared to the rest of his body.
joe rogan
Enormous.
Enormous.
And he used those legs...
He uses those legs to transition, he uses those legs to enter into techniques, and he uses those legs as control when he gets a hold of a guy.
And by the way, couldn't be a nicer human being.
He's like one of the nicest guys I've ever met in my life.
He's so friendly and smiling.
You would never imagine.
ethan suplee
He's a savage.
joe rogan
If there was him and a couple of the fucking Jack Buff dudes, he'd be like, which one of these guys is the biggest killer?
You'd be like, oh, that guy with the fucking big shoulders.
I'm like, no, no, no.
This guy, this mousy-looking fellow, who's always smiling, he'll fucking kill everybody in this room.
ethan suplee
And his pants on so you can't even see that he's got fucking lethal weapon legs.
unidentified
They're just like, they're like Herschel Walker's legs in a 5'6 guy.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It doesn't even make any sense.
And he, man, watching him in Abu Dhabi, I've seen him several times compete, watching him live is something special.
Because it's just like, the transition is so smooth.
His attack is so smooth.
And it's so technique-based.
And he has just a few techniques that he hits over and over and over and over and over again.
And everybody knew he wanted your back.
Everybody knew he wants your back.
ethan suplee
Good luck stopping it.
joe rogan
He could get to that back so quickly.
ethan suplee
I can't believe he did that in that That melee.
joe rogan
I know.
ethan suplee
That's incredible.
joe rogan
Wild scramble.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, we were all like, whoa, who is this guy?
And we knew that he was from Fabio Gurgel's school.
Fabio Gurgel is a very famous Brazilian jiu-jitsu, a real legend, early pioneer.
So everybody knew he was well-instructed, but just like, why didn't we know about this guy?
How come out of nowhere he's strangling everybody and he wins Abu Dhabi?
It was wild.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Jiu-Jitsu is just so amazing.
It's one martial art where it does what a martial art is supposed to do.
What a martial art is supposed to be is that a smaller man with good technique can beat a larger man.
And that kind of can work in other martial arts, but...
Man, that smaller guy's got to be so much better.
In striking, the smaller man has to be so much better.
Like, Logan Paul is going to fight Floyd Mayweather.
Logan Paul is a big guy.
He's like, what is he, like 6'2"-ish, somewhere around that range, 200 pounds, lean, fucking strapping kid.
Floyd is, at his best, he was 147, 154. He's a tiny guy.
He's not a big guy.
He's small hands.
But everyone's betting on Floyd.
Even though he's literally 50 pounds lighter than this guy.
Because he's so much better.
ethan suplee
Is there a puncher's chance in that situation?
Yes.
joe rogan
It's a low percentage.
Like, you wouldn't want to bet it.
You might want to bet it for a goof.
But I mean, I would imagine.
Let me guess what the odds are.
ethan suplee
Is it a professional fight?
No.
joe rogan
I believe they're calling it an exhibition.
Look, come on.
Logan Paul's fucking thick.
I met the dude in person.
I met him in Hawaii.
It was right after he had that boxing match with KSI. He was vacationing in the same place I was with my family, and all of a sudden I get this tap on my shoulder.
I'm like, what's up, dude?
ethan suplee
He is not the same guy that just...
joe rogan
No, that's his brother Jake.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
Jake is allegedly the more talented boxer.
He certainly has preposterous knockout power.
He can knock motherfuckers out.
You can't sleep on that guy just because he's a YouTube star and he talks a lot of shit, but they're training together there.
But Logan is the guy who's fighting Floyd, and Floyd is considerably smaller than him, and I would imagine the odds...
I must say 20 to 1. Right.
ethan suplee
That he wins.
joe rogan
That Floyd wins.
No, Floyd.
That Floyd Mayweather wins.
ethan suplee
20 to 1. That Floyd wins.
joe rogan
Yeah, Floyd is the favorite.
ethan suplee
Yes, yes, yes.
joe rogan
In a big, big, big, big way.
Oh, 20 to 1 against.
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
Is that right?
See?
Motherfucker.
I know my shit.
I'm a professional.
Not really.
ethan suplee
But you know a lot about this kind of thing.
joe rogan
I know about that kind of thing.
I know about like, hmm, it might happen.
Weird shit can happen.
So if I was for a goof, I want to bet 50 bucks, I might put 50 bucks on the kid.
ethan suplee
I'm not such a boxing fan.
I really think...
jamie vernon
You had it right.
20 to 1 actually for Floyd to win.
So you have to bet 2,000 to win 100. Yeah.
Wow.
It's 9 to 1 for Logan to win.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
So you bet...
joe rogan
Oh, that's interesting.
ethan suplee
$10, you win $90?
joe rogan
So 9-1 for Logan to win, but 20-1 for Floyd to win.
jamie vernon
$100 pays $900, but if you want to win $100 on Floyd, you've got to bet $2,000.
joe rogan
Okay, so they're making it difficult.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
Somebody's going to make a lot of money.
joe rogan
Yeah, if you want to bet a million bucks, yeah, you'll make some money, but you might sweat it.
ethan suplee
No, but I think the odds makers are making money with that differential, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Joey Diaz always says, I never met a bookie with a part-time job.
The thing that could happen, and this is very unlikely to happen, but what could happen is if Logan holds him and hits him and hurts him.
So if there's a moment in an exchange where Logan, who is a very good wrestler, I mean a very good wrestler.
We saw him wrestle Paulo Costa who's a UFC middleweight contender and you watch the scrambles like he was controlling Costa and they scrambled he was keeping up with Costa but you watched him move and you're like man this kid can fucking wrestle and Floyd is not like this one punch obliterating knockout power puncher and then he's also 50 pounds lighter so the The weirdness...
What's the weirdest thing that can happen?
Is Logan could somehow or another tie him up and clip him.
Like, really hard.
Because he's a big guy.
If I was his coach, I'd be like, listen, motherfucker.
You are not outboxing the greatest boxer of all time.
What we're going to do is we're going to cover up.
We're going to cheat.
We're going to maul this guy.
unidentified
A lot of shoulders.
joe rogan
Yeah, we're going to maul him.
We're going to push him around.
I want you to hold him.
And I would say...
Plant your feet and push him over your knee.
He might twist his ankle and fuck his knee up.
And we're going to mug him in the clinch.
That's the thing.
Cover up and mug him in the clinch.
Because this is a poppy with a jab.
Keep moving.
Throw a punch.
But don't throw a punch like you've been trying to hit him.
Just get close.
When he's throwing a punch at you, close the distance.
Actually, close the distance and tie him up.
And just fucking try to whale him in the clinch.
Because that's the only time you're going to hit him.
ethan suplee
I'm now nervous for...
I'm nervous for Mayweather.
Now I'm scared.
Now I want to bet Logan.
joe rogan
I would never train a guy like him if I was a trainer.
I would never train a guy like him to try to box with Floyd.
I'm like, you are not going to be on the outside trying to outmaneuver literally the slickest boxer that's ever walked the face of the earth.
ethan suplee
Do you get broken up if you get an underhook?
joe rogan
It depends on the referee.
That's the thing.
Some referees say, fight through it, fight through it, and it really depends on whatever rules they develop specifically for this one sort of understanding.
I know there was some specific understandings for the Conor McGregor fight.
When Conor fought Floyd, if he did anything that was MMA-related, like if he tried to take him down or kick him or something like that, I think he would lose all his money or be fined a million dollars.
ethan suplee
I went to that fight.
joe rogan
Did you?
ethan suplee
And I was waiting for a leg kick.
I was thinking, you're going to get pissed off and body slam the guy.
joe rogan
He could have if he wanted to, but I think he had an opportunity to win $100 million.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
And that's what he got.
ethan suplee
And he risked everything.
joe rogan
He made $100 million in that fight, which is so crazy.
ethan suplee
Yeah, it's insane.
unidentified
Yeah.
ethan suplee
It's fucking insane.
joe rogan
I mean, that fight made Conor McGregor so fucking rich.
And he did catch Floyd.
That's what's crazy.
When he clipped him with that uppercut in the first round, Floyd was like, oh shit, this guy can strike.
But Conor's used to being a sniper and using all his other tools, like kicks and kicking the legs and Jabbing the body with that front kick that he likes to throw.
For him to just use his hands only He can kind of get things off until Floyd figures out his timing and then once Floyd figured out the timing then Floyd was just not there when those punches land and then Conor's punches became more and more labored and Floyd just dragged him into the later rounds and started fucking him up.
ethan suplee
Do you think that's like the worst thing that can happen for a fighter like a fighter like Conor who I remember watching a video on him before he maybe his first UFC fight when they followed him around Ireland he was he did not have much money at all Poor kid, training, hungry.
To go from that to making $100 million in a boxing match, where as long as he doesn't kick the guy, he makes a fortune, is maybe the worst thing.
I mean, for a guy who still seems at times like he wants to fight, for that, for that sport, for mixed martial arts, having so much seems to be working against him.
No?
joe rogan
It can.
It can.
There's no absolutes.
Here's the thing you have to think.
Floyd Mayweather fucked him up with like a half a billion in the bank.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
Think about that.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because Floyd Mayweather, when they did fight, Floyd Mayweather was rich as fuck and still beat his ass.
Way richer than Conor.
Then Conor became after the fight.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's not an absolute thing.
Some people, like Michael Jordan, famously, it didn't matter if he was rich.
He wanted to win.
ethan suplee
Right.
At anything.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Some people are just winners.
ethan suplee
Playing war with a deck of cards.
He wants to win.
joe rogan
Yeah.
You beat him and he won't talk to you for two weeks.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
That was Michael Jordan.
And there's guys like that in everything.
And I think Floyd is like that in boxing.
Some guys do, while saying that, while acknowledging that, some guys do get soft, though.
Most guys get soft.
Like, I don't remember who said it, who the quote was, but it's hard to be a savage when you're sleeping on silk sheets.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
I think about it, and I only bring it up because...
me because I keep readjusting goals.
I'm sorry to bring it back to diet again.
I'm hyper-concentrating on diet.
But I do know that time after time, if my goal was just, I want to lose 100 pounds, when I lose 100 pounds and I go, well, I did that, the motivation or the hunger to keep it off It could have just been that my goal wasn't to lose 100 pounds and keep it off for 5 years or 10 years or 20 years or whatever or lose 100 pounds for life.
My goals were literally just I'm going to do this diet for 4 months.
And so I think about like a guy...
And I have no idea what Conor's goals are, but a guy like that who goes like, I'm gonna make $100 million.
Once you make $100 million, you gotta set new fucking goals, because he's not fighting the same way that he was, at least in UFC, prior to that.
joe rogan
Well, yes and no.
Because he was fighting the same way when he fought Cowboy Cerrone.
When he fucked Cowboy up, he was rich as shit.
You have to realize he had $100 million in the bank and he knocked Cowboy's block off.
ethan suplee
That's true.
joe rogan
That fight, it's hard to judge him based on the Dustin Poirier fight because most people tend to look at the end result.
You tend to look at how it went down and how the fight ended.
And if you look at how the fight ended, you go, oh, Conor Soft.
But when I look at it as an analyst, I look at it from the beginning to the end.
And one of the best ways to look at it is my brother Daniel Cormier has a thing on ESPN called Detail about that fight.
And he shows the first fight, and he shows the second fight, and he shows the adjustments that Dustin Poirier made, and then he shows the difference between the way Conor fought the first fight and Conor fought the second fight.
And one of the things is Dustin started kicking the low calf instead of the thigh.
In the first fight he kicked the thigh.
It's way easier to absorb a few hard kicks to the thigh than it is a few hard kicks to the calf.
The calf, it becomes debilitating almost immediately.
One or two good shins slamming into your calf.
There's just not enough meat there.
There's a thing called compartment syndrome that happens where your blood pools up in the leg There's a guy, you want to get grossed out?
There's a guy named Austin Hubbard who fought in the UFC. Google compartment syndrome Austin Hubbard.
He had a fight in the UFC and he got his legs kicked to high heaven and afterwards they swelled up so bad they had to split his leg like a banana.
To drain it?
Yeah, look at that.
ethan suplee
Holy fuck.
joe rogan
Holy fuck.
So Austin has this enormous scar leading down his leg, but that's what they had to do with his leg.
So they had to open up.
His leg was enormously swollen.
ethan suplee
And they couldn't sew it up, so they have a wound vac sucking the liquid away.
joe rogan
Exactly.
Exactly.
And it was fucking rough, man.
Like, really rough.
And they see him.
Go to that picture that you got your cursor on.
See?
That's what his leg looked like.
So he's sitting there in the hospital after the fight.
His one leg is...
And Austin fights at 155 pounds, I'm pretty sure.
And it says welterweight, Austin Hubbard.
jamie vernon
Yeah, his name has 155 in it.
joe rogan
I think he's fighting welterweight and well he's fought both I believe that's what's going on but his leg was twice the size of his other leg just just from swelling and tissue damage and when you get that compartment syndrome they have to alleviate that look at that one picture go back to where you were look at that picture in the middle with the two legs split up I know but look at that that's an example of compartment syndrome So they have to open you up and figure out a way to drain all that shit.
So see that?
That's in the calf.
And the compartment syndrome in the calf, it happens even more often for whatever reason.
ethan suplee
I spent a lot of time with a wound vac.
joe rogan
Yeah?
ethan suplee
I have a disgusting story.
I don't have pictures to show you.
Not that I would show them if I had the pictures.
But I had loose skin removed in 2008. Or maybe 2007. Anyway, somewhere around there.
And they tell you, like, you can't move for a while.
You gotta sit around.
I had a full cut all the way around 11 pounds of skin.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Think of 11 pounds of brisket.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
It's a fucking big brisket, dude.
And this was just flat.
It puts the lotion in the basket's skin.
joe rogan
Do you have photos of the skin?
ethan suplee
Not accessible right now.
If I do, they're on a disc somewhere.
I did.
I did.
I actually...
joe rogan
I don't know why I want to say it.
ethan suplee
I will send you pictures.
joe rogan
Let's Google skin removal operation.
ethan suplee
If you want to get really gross, and I don't talk about this much because it seems to put people off, but when I was going to have the skin surgery, I told the doctor that I wanted to tan the skin and make trinkets for my friends.
And he was so offended by this.
He was so gross.
And I was like, it's like the most loving gift I can imagine giving somebody, literally a piece of myself.
And he was like, I'm Jewish.
This offends me on so many levels.
And I was like, I don't even understand what you're saying, but I don't want to do anything to somebody else that's bad and all of that.
joe rogan
What about being Jewish makes that?
ethan suplee
He was like, they made lampshades out of my people.
And I was like, okay, I don't want to do that.
I want to make keychain bangles for my friends.
joe rogan
That's a different thing.
ethan suplee
It's a different thing.
Also illegal in California.
joe rogan
To make keychains out of your skin?
ethan suplee
To give somebody their skin.
You can't do it.
joe rogan
What about toenails?
ethan suplee
Toenails?
That's what...
I mean, I said I got my wisdom teeth.
When I had my wisdom teeth pulled, they handed me my wisdom teeth.
I didn't understand.
unidentified
We're very specific.
joe rogan
We're very specific about what you can keep and not keep.
ethan suplee
Skin is off limits.
So I donated it to burn research.
But...
I had so much anxiety about sitting still and gaining weight while I was sitting still that I didn't sit still and I fell and tore my side open and had to have a wound vac just like that gentleman for a long time because they can't sew you back up and it fills with fluid and you have to constantly suck the fluid away from the wound.
joe rogan
Why couldn't they sew you back up?
ethan suplee
I don't know.
I don't know.
But I did so much damage falling and tearing my side open that they had one of those wound vacs, yeah.
joe rogan
How long did that last for?
ethan suplee
Months.
jamie vernon
That's the best I could find.
joe rogan
There's some skin that they removed from somebody.
Fucking A, man.
unidentified
Jesus Christ.
ethan suplee
That could be 11 pounds.
I mean, that looks like a lot of skin.
joe rogan
It looks a lot.
How long was the healing process from all this?
ethan suplee
The entire last season of My Name is Earl, I wore a wound vac that I would take off as we would start rolling.
So it was months and months and months.
It wouldn't have been if I hadn't have fallen and injured myself.
joe rogan
How long would it have been if you hadn't fallen?
ethan suplee
Three or four months.
joe rogan
Even then?
That's so long.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, the thing that really scares people about injuries is infections.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
So you had to worry about staph and things along those lines, or MRSA, which is really scary.
ethan suplee
Oh, I was on heavy-duty antibiotics, Levoquin, the whole time, just to kill bacteria as it came up, in case it was like something I had to take every day, no matter what, in case an infection happened.
unidentified
Wow.
ethan suplee
Yeah, it sucked.
joe rogan
And that wears you out too, right?
Antibiotics just make you so tired.
ethan suplee
Yeah, it was not something I would consider doing again, though I've been a healthy weight with excess skin for years now.
joe rogan
Gordon Ryan was in here the other day, who's the greatest jiu-jitsu grappler of all time, right?
ethan suplee
He's a young kid.
joe rogan
25!
ethan suplee
You think he's the greatest of all time?
joe rogan
Of all time.
ethan suplee
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's the best.
ethan suplee
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's the best.
ethan suplee
I know who he is, I just can't believe, already at 25, he beats everyone.
joe rogan
This is the consensus.
ethan suplee
How do we get, like, Hickson versus him?
joe rogan
Well, he's a lot bigger than Hickson, first of all, but obviously Hickson is long past his time.
It's a different world.
He taps big, giant Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu world champions, and he puts them in bad situations and taps them like it's nothing.
ethan suplee
I'm not talking shit and saying he's not great.
I'm just saying the greatest of all time is 25. It's extraordinary.
joe rogan
It's very unusual.
ethan suplee
You were doing jiu-jitsu when he was two years old.
joe rogan
Exactly.
Yeah.
He learned from John Donaher, who's probably the greatest mind in combat sports alive today.
Not probably.
I think he is.
You know, and when I found out that John Donaher, Gary Tonin, who is also one of the greatest grapplers alive, is also a John Donaher student, has entered into One FC, which is a mixed martial arts organization in Asia, and he's been incredibly successful.
And then I was like, well, who's his striking coach?
And Gordon's like, John Donaher's his striking coach as well.
And I was like, what?!
And then I realized, like, holy shit!
You're talking about a guy who used to teach philosophy at Columbia and then became obsessed with Jiu Jitsu.
Doesn't have a family, doesn't have a girlfriend.
All he does is train fighters and study tape.
And I get a chance to talk to him this past weekend.
And every time I talk to him, I'm reminded, like, how fucking brilliant the guy is.
He's an extraordinary person.
And Gordon, who is a great athlete, who has incredible dedication and discipline, was trained by the greatest mind in combat sports alive today.
And maybe the greatest ever.
How about that?
John Donahue might be the greatest mind in combat sports ever.
And the two of them together, unstoppable combination.
So you have genetics.
He's a big, strong, tall kid who grew up doing jiu-jitsu, right?
Starts jiu-jitsu when he was a kid.
And then finds John Donaher and trains seven days a week.
And when he's not training, he's studying tape, and he's examining moves and going over things, and he's just fully dedicated.
They don't take any days off, man.
That's one of the things we talked about.
I'm like, no days off?
No, when I'm tired, I just train light.
I'm like, what in the fuck?
He's like, yeah, I might go in and get tapped a few times, but who gives a shit?
If I'm worn out, I just go in and I keep training.
ethan suplee
He hasn't had an MMA fight.
joe rogan
He has not yet, but he has signed for 1FC, exclusive for MMA, and they might put him in grappling matches in 1FC as well.
1FC is a really interesting organization because they have kickboxing, They have Muay Thai, so they have regular kickboxing with gloves, with big gloves, boxing gloves.
They have kickboxing with small gloves.
They have Muay Thai with small gloves.
They have MMA, and apparently they're going to have grappling as well.
So they're going to give away a grappling belt, same way they have 1FC belts for all these other disciplines.
ethan suplee
Did 1FC grow out of Strikeforce?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
No, Strikeforce was purchased by the UFC. Oh.
ethan suplee
When was that?
joe rogan
A long time ago.
ethan suplee
Okay.
joe rogan
Yeah, UFC bought Strikeforce back in the early 2000s, I believe, because Ronda Rousey actually came from Strikeforce.
ethan suplee
Okay.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So when he does do MMA, if he does do MMA, he has to do it with 1FC. That's where his contract lies.
Right.
The contract allows him to grapple with 1FC but grapple everywhere else as well.
And the conversation we were having was he's having a hard time getting opponents.
For grappling.
For grappling.
Because no one wants to get manhandled.
They get manhandled.
Why did I say that that way?
Manhandled.
He doesn't just manhandle guys.
He tells you how he's going to tap them.
Like he fought Wagner Rocha and he wrote on a piece of paper He wrote a triangle and he handed it to the guys who are doing commentary and he said, open this envelope up after the match is over.
ethan suplee
That's crazy.
joe rogan
And he's fighting a world-class guy.
Wagner's a world-class guy.
He fights this guy, triangles him, and he said he was going to manhandle him for a long time because apparently the guy fucked with him when he was 19. He's going to manhandle him for a long time and then triangle him, and that's exactly what he did.
And they had a match a long time ago.
And the difference between, like several years ago, the difference between that match and today is stark.
Like, Gordon is that much better.
He continues to grow at this crazy rate and get better at this crazy rate.
These other guys are recognizing, like, not only is he the best guy alive...
But he's so much better than he was a year ago.
He's so much better than he was a year before that.
He's better than he was six weeks ago.
He just keeps getting better.
And he's only 25. So when you're 25, you just keep getting better.
And he's training seven days a fucking week.
He gets up in the morning, he lifts weights, he does MMA training, and then he does jiu-jitsu, and then he eats, and he goes to sleep, and he does it all over again.
And they moved to Puerto Rico so they could do it because New York City was shutting down the gyms.
So they're like, okay, we'll go over here.
They're like, we're not going to stop.
We're not going to take a year off.
Get the fuck out of here.
So they just went to Puerto Rico.
ethan suplee
That's exciting.
joe rogan
I can't wait to see him fight MMA. I'm excited about that, but honestly, I'm just as excited about him fighting and grappling.
ethan suplee
But like who?
Who do you want to see him fight?
joe rogan
That's what's interesting.
With one FC, I think they have a promotional machine behind them with financial backing that might incentivize people to compete against him.
So they might be able to talk some other elite grapplers who are also heavyweights to get in there and risk getting tapped.
Because this is what they wanted to avoid.
Because he had a match with Cyborg, Roberto Abreu, who's a huge fucking powerhouse of a man.
Multiple time world champion.
And Cyborg is widely respected as being one of the top grapplers alive.
Gordon trapped him early on, got him in a heel hook and tapped him out.
And when people saw Cyborg get tapped out so easily by Gordon, they're like, holy shit!
It just changed the game.
How big is he?
Cyborg 240?
Gordon 220?
ethan suplee
Oh, he's really big.
joe rogan
He's big.
He's a big kid.
And this is the thing.
We got to Gordon from this conversation about staph infection.
So Gordon had this reoccurring staph infection over and over and over again.
He kept taking these antibiotics and he developed a stomach issue.
I forget what it's called.
But the stomach issue does not allow him to consume...
A bunch of different foods without getting nauseous.
He's nauseous all the time.
ethan suplee
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, he can only consume small amounts of food, too.
And to maintain his mass to be 220 pounds, he's got to eat a lot of food.
He can only eat white rice, chicken, fish, and a couple other things.
And no oils or greases or anything like that.
ethan suplee
I mean, in fairness, that sounds like a pretty healthy diet.
joe rogan
Not a bad diet, but he can't eat the amount that he wants.
What's it called?
Gastroparesis.
Paresis?
Gastroparesis.
So this is it, which means partial paralysis of the stomach is a disease which the stomach cannot empty itself of food in a normal way.
If you have this condition, damaged nerves and muscles don't function with their normal strength and coordination, slowing the movement of the contents through your digestive system.
And they think that that happened because of the continual use of oral antibiotics just over and over and over again.
He's on this stuff and it eventually fucked up his stomach.
ethan suplee
And is the staph infection under control?
joe rogan
Staph infection is under control, but now he's got this gastroparesis.
Gastroparesis.
Still, he can't shake it.
ethan suplee
That sucks, dude.
joe rogan
It does suck.
ethan suplee
That really sucks.
joe rogan
Still the best.
ethan suplee
He can't eat what he wants, and he's still the best.
joe rogan
Yeah, still with this fucked up stomach thing, because he thinks that if he didn't have the stomach thing, he could, because of his steady weightlifting and everything, he could get up to 240, where he thinks he can dominate people even more.
And he's a big kid.
unidentified
Jesus fucking Christ.
joe rogan
When you see the size of him, he's a big kid.
I mean, I think it's probably accurate.
ethan suplee
Yeah, he'd need to eat a lot more, and maybe chicken and rice and vegetables isn't going to cut it.
You need to up the fats.
joe rogan
You know, larger calories, larger portions, but I love outliers.
I really do.
I just love exceptional human beings who can figure out things like that.
ethan suplee
I do too.
joe rogan
Gets me excited.
I love when there's a dude who's just so far ahead of the curve.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
And when you're talking about Hickson, like that was how everybody felt about Hickson when Hickson was in his prime.
And Hickson was the same way.
He was training every day.
And Hickson's special thing was yoga.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
Because Hickson had this crazy physicality and flexibility that these other jiu-jitsu guys did not have.
And also this insane understanding of positions and insane understanding of the language of the interactions of human bodies in grappling exchanges.
He just knew how to grapple in a way that other guys just did not.
And a lot of it was just based on repetition over and over and over and over again.
And the fact that he was stronger than the other Gracies.
So he got more taps in than they did.
And that's how guys get really much better.
A guy who's physically stronger and a guy who...
Eddie Bravo always says that if you really want to get good, strangle blue belts.
And it's really true.
Because you get more taps in when you're doing this.
ethan suplee
More reps.
joe rogan
Yeah, you get more reps in.
And that's what happened with Hickson.
He was just better than everybody else and more physical.
And it's one of the reasons why...
There's a couple reasons why Horian Gracie, who created the UFC, wanted Hoist to compete.
Rather than Hickson.
One was that he couldn't control Hickson because he doesn't listen to anybody but Hickson.
And the other one was that Hoist was less physically impressive.
Like when you saw Hickson, you've seen Hickson with his shirt off.
I mean, he looks like a fucking assassin.
ethan suplee
He looks like an Adonis.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, he was beautiful.
ethan suplee
Yeah, truly beautiful.
joe rogan
He had perfect features.
He was so handsome.
ethan suplee
And Hoist, compared to him, was like a scrawny little guy.
Yes.
joe rogan
So Hoist was a better example, a better demonstration of Jiu-Jitsu.
ethan suplee
More impressive, certainly.
joe rogan
Yeah, in that way.
And the idea was that they would use Hoist until Hoist lost, and if Hoist ever lost, then they bring in Hicks, and then everybody's fucked.
ethan suplee
Just assassinate.
joe rogan
Yeah, but Hickson went over to Japan and won the Japan Vale Tudo and became a giant star in Japan and then he fought in Coliseum and he fought in Pride and I think Coliseum was his last fight and if I'm gonna be accurate I want to say it was the year 2000. I think that was Hickson's last hurrah.
ethan suplee
So who today I didn't mean Hickson should fight him now.
joe rogan
No, no, of course.
But at the time, the version of Hickson versus the version of Gordon Ryan today.
ethan suplee
And so we can't even play that game.
Who today do you want to see Gordon fight?
joe rogan
Well, I'd love to see Cyborg again.
I think that would be an interesting fight because Cyborg still, now Cyborg and him did have one other match and Cyborg was disqualified for slapping Gordon in the head repeatedly.
ethan suplee
I saw that.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
Which looked like a fucking bitch thing to do, too, to be honest with you.
joe rogan
You know, guys get frustrated.
They get emotional.
I mean, Gordon talks so much shit, too.
ethan suplee
Really?
joe rogan
But meanwhile, it didn't bother him that he was getting smacked.
He just kept rolling.
I mean, his ultimate goal was to get Cyborg to engage with him and tap him out again.
And Cyborg was very defensive and used a lot of slaps and was very physical.
There's some guys.
Pena's really good.
There's a lot of guys in the heavyweight division that are elite grapplers.
But the thing is, a lot of them don't want to risk getting tapped.
That's what the thing is.
That's the thing.
They just don't want to risk having it happen to them what happened to Wagner Rocha.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
But then if they put enough money, people will start to risk that.
joe rogan
If they put enough money, and that's the argument about something like 1FC, is that 1FC might have the financial means to goad maybe some judo champions and some elite grapplers in other disciplines, you know, and make it a big deal.
And, you know, do it in a stadium.
I mean, who knows?
Because if you're doing it at one of those big 1FC shows, once they have audiences, again, I don't think they're having...
I think the UFC is the first combat sports organization in mixed martial arts, at least, to start having full stadiums again.
And so the one that we did a couple of weeks ago in Jacksonville, Florida, was a full stadium, which is pretty fucking nuts.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
unidentified
It was wild.
ethan suplee
I'm so glad it's coming back.
joe rogan
The electricity in the crowd is fucking tangible.
It's crazy.
ethan suplee
I liked what they were doing in, was it Dubai or Qatar or something?
joe rogan
It was Abu Dhabi.
ethan suplee
Abu Dhabi?
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
That was awesome, but it definitely felt from an audience perspective to be a little bit lacking without the feeling of a crowd.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, they kept the sport going, though.
That's what they did.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, they kept the sport alive, and they allowed fans to come back in a limited capacity in Abu Dhabi for the Conor fight.
I forget how many.
They had rules.
They had to have a negative COVID test either day of or day before or something like that.
There were some rules to get in there, and I don't think it was full capacity, but it was quite a few people.
But when they fight again, it'll be in July at the T-Mobile Arena in Vegas.
And barring some sort of crazy outbreak of COVID again, it should be full capacity.
It'll be wild.
ethan suplee
Yeah, it's exciting.
joe rogan
Yeah, it is.
It's a crazy sport, man.
There's nothing like it.
There really is nothing like it.
ethan suplee
Yeah, I never was super into boxing.
It was the only thing that seemed to just be more entertaining.
I enjoyed watching it more, and I like combat.
joe rogan
Yeah, I like boxing too.
ethan suplee
I'm not shitting on boxing.
joe rogan
It just was not me.
unidentified
I know you're not.
joe rogan
I like boxing too, but yeah, MMA, it's more dynamic.
There's more involved.
There's more options.
It's more exciting.
And it ends more suddenly, more often.
Like if you watched the UFC fight last weekend or two weekends ago.
Last weekend, this past weekend, this Porhaska.
How do you say it?
Porhaska.
I think that's how you say his name.
Yuri Prohaska.
Did you see that fight?
Bro, that guy is a monster.
He's a real problem.
He's this guy from the Czech Republic.
This big fucking crazy striker who fights wild and he just comes straight at you and puts it on you in this Wild way where he just throws himself at fighters and forces them into these dogfights.
And he got tagged.
He got rocked in the fight at one point in time, but then he knocked Dominic Reyes out with a spinning elbow.
And it was just, I mean, face plant, out cold.
And Dominic Reyes is a guy who went five hard rounds with Jon Jones.
And then he got stopped by Jan Blachowicz.
And then he got really fucked up by Prochaska.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
It's going to be fucking wild.
Is Jon Jones going to come back and fight?
joe rogan
Supposedly he's going to fight in the heavyweight division and supposedly he's going to fight Francis Ngannou.
ethan suplee
But it's not done.
joe rogan
It's not done.
And Francis Ngannou, if Jon and the UFC don't make...
An agreement, then Francis is going to fight Derrick Lewis, who is the last guy to beat him in a decision.
ethan suplee
That's a fun fight, too.
joe rogan
Fuck, yeah.
Derrick is terrifying.
The beast.
Derrick is the only guy that can knock guys out as impressively, maybe even more so, than Francis.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because he face-planted Curtis Blaze with one punch.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
You know, Derek can knock any man out.
Any man.
Any man alive.
He's so big.
Derek is huge.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
So he's a natural 265 pounder, too.
And he's just got a real knack for knocking people unconscious.
And, you know, what he said about Francis, he said, if we fight again, he's going to knock them the fuck out.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
Which is crazy.
If he knocked Francis out, that would be full-on bananas.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
And, you know, Derek has the ability He really can knock anyone out.
And if Francis has to fight Derek, he has to be much more careful than he was against Stipe.
Because Derek is a one-punch guy.
Like, one punch can change everything.
So, that'll be fun.
Either way.
I'm in for all of them.
ethan suplee
No matter what.
joe rogan
So, why'd you stop?
What is this here?
Oh, yeah.
This is the spinning elbow.
Watch this.
I mean, fuck, dude.
Crazy.
ethan suplee
That's insane.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's something special.
It's not just that, man.
It's all the other stuff that he did in the fight as well.
And it's the pace that he set.
He has crazy cardio, and he's a wild guy.
Even after the fight, he was upset with himself for getting hit.
He's like, oh, I got really caught.
I don't think it was a masterpiece.
He was talking crazy.
He's a wild, sort of interesting person, the way he thinks and You know, and the way he fights is not like anybody else.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
He just goes right at you.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
He just puts it on you.
ethan suplee
He's going to give people trouble.
joe rogan
He's going to give everybody trouble.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean...
ethan suplee
Is that his first fight in the UFC? Second fight.
Second fight.
Okay.
joe rogan
Yeah, his first fight, he fought Ozdemir.
Volkan Ozdemir.
Knocked him the fuck out, too.
Which is...
Crazy.
ethan suplee
What is that weight class?
joe rogan
Oztemir's scary.
205. 205, okay.
Oztemir's scary.
Oztemir's a serious knockout puncher, and he slept him.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, both guys, flatlines him.
You seen that fight?
jamie vernon
I'm looking at his record right now.
Everything he has is a KO. Yeah.
ethan suplee
Wow.
jamie vernon
One decision here.
joe rogan
Yeah.
jamie vernon
TKO retirement, TKO heading, yeah, everything is chaos.
joe rogan
He's a monster.
He's a monster.
jamie vernon
One draw.
joe rogan
Super creative.
ethan suplee
Were you asking why I stopped training?
joe rogan
Yeah, why I stopped training.
ethan suplee
I started training more with force multipliers.
So I was doing a TV show and the character I was playing was based on a real dude who his job is to train tier one guys in edge weapons, blades, knives and stuff like that.
And Tom Kyer is his name.
He's a real guy.
He's fucking awesome.
And I just kind of moved over to the idea...
Obviously, I think that all of this stuff is super beneficial and good to keep up with, but when I think about...
Getting into a fight.
I have four kids.
Two are in college.
They're all girls.
I feel very protective of them.
But I'm not going to bars and putting myself in situations where I'm going to have like a street fight.
And so when I would think about that, I would think, like, what would the circumstances be to require me to have some kind of a physical altercation?
And it always came down to their lives, where my wife's life was in danger.
And then it just led to, like, the idea of weapons, basically.
And so I started training with weapons.
joe rogan
You trained with pistols?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
I shoot USPSA. Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, wow.
So you're serious.
ethan suplee
I like training.
I don't know how serious I am.
I also live in California, so everything becomes more difficult out there.
Carrying a fixed blade is more illegal than carrying a pistol in California.
joe rogan
Is it really?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Really?
ethan suplee
Yeah, it's a felony to conceal carry a fixed blade knife.
It is a misdemeanor to conceal carry a pistol in California.
These are California's laws.
So all these things become difficult to train with this stuff, but I also am mostly at my house, and it's not illegal to carry anything at your house.
joe rogan
Right.
Have you ever gone to, like, a tactical course and done, like, Terran tactical?
ethan suplee
I haven't done Terran tactical, but I've trained with guys like Bill Rapier, Kyle DeFore.
These guys were all in dev group for a long time, and I've trained with those dudes.
joe rogan
It's interesting, the attitude about guns in California and how it shifted post-COVID, isn't it?
ethan suplee
Guns sold out during COVID. By the way, there's a national bullet shortage.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's real hard to get bullets.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, but wasn't it interesting how, I don't know if this is the case with you, people who never talked about guns all of a sudden started inquiring about guns.
And I'm sure if people know that you train with guns, they probably question you about it.
Like, hey man, how did I get one?
ethan suplee
I had a lot of calls like, I should get a gun.
I'm going to get a gun.
My answer to every one of these people was like, please go do a course first.
Go do a gun safety course at least.
I'm not even taking a position on what's right and wrong as far as the law goes or if we should have more or less regulations, but...
I wanted my friends to at least be able to operate safely before they had it in their house.
joe rogan
Yes, and know how to keep it safe.
Just make sure that they're locked up and nobody can just get to them easily.
All that stuff is very, very tricky.
ethan suplee
I had a friend ask me to borrow a gun, and I was like, are you fucking crazy?
There's no way!
joe rogan
Yeah, I've had that conversation too, and many other friends that I have that have had guns have also had those conversations with other people when they've asked them.
It's apparently a common thing.
You know, I know you have more than one gun.
Like, bitch!
I'm not going to jail.
ethan suplee
Yeah, I'm not getting in trouble.
joe rogan
Yeah, because that's illegal.
It's legal for me to have more than one gun.
It's not legal for me to give one to you.
ethan suplee
Yeah, and I just think a person who has no knowledge or experience with that, I don't want to be a part of handing them something.
joe rogan
Just the first time you shoot a gun and you realize how loud it is and how much kick it has, like, ah!
ethan suplee
Yeah, it's a lot.
joe rogan
And you don't even know how to aim it.
You need to learn, you know?
I remember the first time I ever went to a gun range was actually the first time I moved to California.
I bought a gun and went to the range because you couldn't get a gun in New York.
It's easier to get a gun out here than it is in New York.
When I went to the range, I remember walking in and hearing, Bang!
And you're like, whoa!
It made you feel so vulnerable.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
And you realize like, wow, that's what bullets sound like.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
Little explosions.
joe rogan
Yeah, little explosions and then once you do it and you pull the trigger a few times and hit targets, you're like, holy shit.
ethan suplee
Yeah, it's fun.
You know, this is another place where people get so divided, and I just think it comes down to, like, preferences and values, and I hear people argue about it, and I'm like, sounds like people are arguing about flavors of ice cream to me, because it's like, I like this, I don't like this, and what I like, you should like, and it's, you know, it's a weird thing to think about.
joe rogan
Well, people don't like the argument that if you take guns away, then you'll be helpless against a tyrannical government.
That is a slippery one with people.
They're like, what?
Oh, come on.
You think that's going to happen?
Oh, come on.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
And I'm like, no, I don't think it's going to happen.
ethan suplee
I like the senator who said the US government has nukes, talking about how people with firearms at home couldn't defend themselves against the US government.
And I just wish I could point out to that guy that neither Vietnam or Afghanistan had nukes.
They didn't have much of anything, and they seemed to do pretty well against the US government.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a good argument.
But Afghanistan, obviously, it's a terrain issue.
ethan suplee
Right.
But they don't have nukes.
joe rogan
No.
No, but if we used one on Afghanistan, that would be a wrap.
ethan suplee
Right.
I don't think the U.S. government is going to use nukes on U.S. people.
joe rogan
No, it's a dumb argument.
But people try to do those things because they're actually trying to run an argument.
They're not trying to be rational.
They're trying to say something that would work.
Like, ta-da, gotcha!
ethan suplee
We won, the US government won.
joe rogan
Four aces!
It's...
Sure.
But it could.
Sure.
And it might not with this organization, with this administration rather, but it might with three administrations from now.
And I can say that with all sincerity.
I'm not being hyperbolic.
I'm just looking at what happened over the last year with COVID. And not necessarily even in America.
Look what's going on in Canada.
When you see 200 cops show up because these people are having a church service and they've decided you can't gather.
And so 200 cops show up at a church.
What are you doing?
What's going on there?
That seems kind of fucking crazy.
It seems like there's an overreach.
And what if this overreach extends?
Now we're talking about a disease that kills a very small percentage of people.
It's all tragic.
Everyone who dies, it's a tragedy.
No argument there.
Sad, no matter what.
But what if it's a disease that kills 10% of the people?
What if it's 20?
If they see you outside your house, are they going to shoot you to protect other people?
Are they going to treat you like you're a zombie?
ethan suplee
The argument breaks down because we're now worried about the total loss of life.
When we had the lockdown, it was because of potential medical infrastructure collapse.
That was why we couldn't risk the hospitals being overfilled.
Now, I understand that because...
If the hospitals, if that infrastructure collapses, that's devastating to the country.
78%, and I thought it was 80, you corrected me earlier, 78% of the people who were hospitalized for COVID were obese.
We're not allowed to tell anybody to lose weight, but if they did, we would certainly, and I'm not saying it would be one for one, but we would certainly reduce the need for hospitalization.
So all of these things are values.
joe rogan
Yeah, Bill Maher had a great bit about that.
He had a great piece about...
Michelle Obama, when Obama was president, Michelle Obama had some get out and move campaign, right?
And that if something similar was employed during the Trump administration, during COVID, we could have gotten people healthier and said, but I don't think they necessarily knew at the time.
I think it took a few months before they recognized that obesity was one of the main comorbidity factors.
But vitamin D is another big one.
which they took away by keeping us inside yeah most people need vitamin D even if you go outside though unfortunately because you're wearing clothes and you don't want to get skin cancer so we've been programmed to think that you have to you can't be exposed you have to put sunscreen on which is fucking gnarly chemicals but vitamin D
in one study at least 84% of the people in the ICU with COVID had insufficient levels of vitamin D and only 4% had sufficient levels, which is really crazy.
Obviously, it doesn't mean it protects you 100%, but it's a strong factor.
And then when you look at the national numbers, I think 79% of the population in total has insufficient levels of vitamin D. It is a real problem because it's a hormone, and it's a hormone that your body best produces when you're out in the sun, but you don't get it any other way unless you supplement.
You don't get it from your diet.
You don't get it from anything.
It doesn't exist in foods.
You literally have to take it as a supplement.
ethan suplee
Why is this not?
Exactly.
joe rogan
Yeah, why is it not pushed as a value?
The New York Times recently had a piece that they put about how people who exercise regularly, it's a strong factor in not having COVID in a severe case and recovering from it quicker.
This is another thing that doesn't get discussed.
All that gets discussed is locking down, vaccinations, all these different things, when it should be a multi-tiered approach to getting people healthier.
But it's hard to tell people to be healthy.
It's like what we were talking about before.
Hearing you talk about the emotional pain involved in being overweight before you decided to take these incredible steps and this amazing result, it makes you think like, man, it's hard to tell someone, especially someone like me, who's never really been fat, it's hard to tell someone that you have to lose weight.
So if the government started doing it, and goddammit, there's so many snowflakes today, If they did start doing it, people would be freaking the fuck out.
Like, what do you say?
You're injuring me with your words!
You're causing violence with your words!
ethan suplee
But did you know that also there's a movement that links the idea of diet culture to racism also?
In any form?
joe rogan
What?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
How do they do that?
ethan suplee
Apparently, there was a kind of somewhat of a predilection amongst black men to favor larger women.
And so, in order to shame that whole group for their race, this is what the theory is that diet culture grew out of that.
joe rogan
Is this part of critical race theory?
ethan suplee
Yes.
joe rogan
Don't they just find everything?
ethan suplee
I suppose so.
I just think it becomes very dangerous to encourage people to lose weight.
And for me, I understand, like, health was not my main driving motivation.
I mean, today, it's a big part of it.
20 years ago, it wasn't even 5%.
joe rogan
There's a real problem with, there's a culture of call-out in this country.
There's a culture of attack vectors.
They're looking for a reason that you're bad or you're wrong or you're guilty or you're responsible for something.
Whether you are or you aren't.
And then if you are saying this publicly, and one of the problems with social media is, even if what you're saying doesn't necessarily make sense, you can get enough fucking people to agree with you, and they'll pile on.
And then the person who is in this debate is an individual, and they get attacked by enormous amounts of people.
And it's a bad proposition.
And for the person that gets attacked, it feels like the walls are closing in on you.
Like, oh my god.
Like, I know people that are like...
Very educated, intelligent people.
And then they espouse something online that goes against the mob, and they get attacked, and it wrecks them.
It wrecks them emotionally.
And I've seen it happen.
I'm like, man, you've got to stay offline.
Just get out of there.
I can't help.
I'm to defend myself.
But you don't have to defend yourself.
I mean, brilliant people who've wrecked vacations because they checked something on Twitter where someone was attacking them, and they spent all their...
Vacation time in the hotel room, crafting a response.
Like, man, don't do it.
Don't do it.
But it's a part of this weird culture that we find ourselves in where people realize that's an ineffective thing.
If you have an opinion that I don't agree with, we will attack that opinion.
And then a bunch of people who agree with your perspective will pile onto it.
And it's a natural inclination people have when you see someone vulnerable to pile on.
It's an animal thing.
You know, you see it with other animals.
When a wolf is cowering from the other wolves, they'll all attack that wolf and fuck it up.
It's a natural instinct to see weakness and to attack or to sense vulnerability and attack.
And that is playing itself out in social media.
You see it with people.
So if someone says that diet culture is racist, and so I agree, and then like, you know, and then next thing you know.
ethan suplee
Or whatever.
It's toxic.
Or whatever it is.
Again, I don't give a shit if people want to be overweight and they're overweight.
But for anybody who wants to lose weight and has failed and is struggling, there's a conversation to be had.
joe rogan
There's a conversation to be had, but I think it has to be had maybe through someone who's actually done it.
And I think you have an amazing position.
What you've done is incredible.
It took a long time.
It took an amazing amount of work, and it changed who you are as a human being.
You're more confident.
You have more energy.
You're far healthier.
You look amazing.
And you look at these pictures of who you were and who you are now.
You are a guy who can speak to it in a way that I can't, you know?
For very fortunate reasons, my family ate healthy when I was young.
I have good genetics.
And I worked out from the time I was a kid.
I've never stopped working out.
So I've never really had an issue like that.
But fuck, I could have if I was you.
That's like what we were talking about earlier.
Like when someone said, I can never do what you do.
But you could if you were me.
And that's Sapolsky.
That's determinism.
And it's real, man.
It's hard for people to recognize that.
But I think...
Overall, in general, we need to be way more compassionate with each other, and one way is to recognize that you don't exist the way you are because you just decide this is the way to be, and it's real clear, and I'm gonna fuck people over, and I'm gonna do this, and this is who I am.
Period.
Fuck off.
No, you just become that person over a long period of time.
And I was explaining this to someone recently, and I've said it more than once, but it bears repeating that when I had children, it changed who I am as a person because then I started to think of people as babies.
I never thought of people as babies.
If I met a guy and he was a 40-year-old asshole, I'm like, there's Tom, that 40-year-old asshole.
ethan suplee
Right.
joe rogan
I never thought, oh, Tom used to be a baby.
And he was this cute little kid, but his parents fought around him.
And then maybe he got spanked too much when he did things wrong.
He didn't even understand what was going on.
And maybe his brother beat the shit out of him.
Maybe went to school with kids who bullied him.
And then, you know, maybe he fucking got arrested and did time in jail for something he didn't do.
And next thing you know, here's Tom, the 40-year-old asshole that's giving me a hard time at the gas station.
And I'm thinking about flatlining Tom.
Like, motherfucker.
Like, you think of people as who they are now.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, and I think we would all be better off if we just recognized that, like, everybody's path is different.
And if someone came out fucked up, there's that old saying, right?
Hurt people hurt people.
That shit's real.
unidentified
It is.
ethan suplee
My fear with determination and I... Determinism?
Determinism, sorry.
And I think with it all the time.
It doesn't absolve you.
Exactly.
It can be this thing where I go like, well, my experience has led me to here, so this is it.
And I think that you can create experiences that can lead you in another direction.
Gurdjieff is a philosopher who talked about the eyes, how we're not just a singular thing.
I have, not in a schizophrenic way, but many voices in my head at all times saying, like, drink this water.
Don't drink this water.
Have a nicotine mint.
You want a McRib?
The McRib is bad.
Eat the McRib.
No, I'm going to have chicken and rice.
These voices exist.
So make a decision and pick an eye.
And then there are various ways that we can go about accomplishing stuff if we don't try to accomplish everything in a day, I think.
So I get scared and I don't think this is the point of Sapolsky, but I think it's easy to hear that and to go like, everything led me to this point.
I'm a product of all of this.
I cannot beat it.
That's my fear with that.
And so I go like, there's got to be some middle ground between the two, between free will and recognizing all of that.
joe rogan
It really does.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I think that's also where communication comes in.
And that recognition that human beings don't exist in a vacuum.
We're all in this together.
And we need each other to check each other, to recognize when our behavior is off, and then to be kind about it.
To let people know, like, hey, you've made a mistake here.
You fucked this up.
And for that person to recognize that this person is reaching out with kindness and then respond in turn with kindness and say, I'm really sorry.
I didn't mean to.
I understand that I did something incorrect.
And we can do that.
It's the opposite of call-out culture, right?
It's like, it's a kindness culture.
It's like a compassion culture.
That's what we really need in response.
And unfortunately, some really intelligent people Who are well-meaning, they think they're doing the right thing, are involved in this sort of cancel culture thing where they're attacking people.
And it's bad for everybody.
It's bad for them, too, because they kind of feel what they're doing while they're doing it.
It gives you a very low opinion of yourself.
Because if you're a person that's piling on on someone, you don't think of yourself as being a hero or some sort of courageous or enlightened person.
ethan suplee
That group often eats its own, too, so it's like a dangerous group to be in.
joe rogan
It's a product in many ways of social media because it's a shit way to communicate with text online like that.
It's just not healthy.
It's not wise and it's not wise to participate in it.
It's not wise to dwell in it when it happens to you.
It's not wise to go back and forth and I don't think it's wise if we continue this.
I think it's bad for us as a culture and as a civilization.
And again, you've got to forgive the people that are involved in it as well.
I don't think they're bad people.
I just think it's a bad decision.
And I think it's a simple, easy decision, just like it's a simple, easy decision to eat the craft service.
It's right there, but it's not the wise thing to do.
We need more people communicating about all these things that we're talking about.
And we need it to be a big part of the conversation of what it means to be a person in today's society.
Because you can delve into processed foods.
You can get into harmful drugs.
You can get into all sorts of things that can fuck yourself up.
Or...
You can decide, like, you know what, I kind of recognize that this has never served me in the past.
I've seen all these errors I've made up to this point, and I'm going to choose now to move forward with a different ideal and with different ethics and different morals, and I'm going to try to be a better person, and I'm going to try to treat other people the way I would like to be treated.
Not pile on them on social media or attack them for some shit that they might or might have gotten incorrect or whatever, but instead to just recognize, like, this is a terrible way to treat someone you care about.
We should care about everybody.
Like, you would never pile on one of your friends on social media, right?
unidentified
No way.
joe rogan
Of course.
So why would you just do it to anybody?
Really...
You know, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be critical of certain things.
And certain things demand critical thinking and they demand criticism because it allows the other person to recognize that they've erred and that other people see things from a different perspective than they do.
But you don't get that from insulting people and being shitty and mean.
And that is more common than not.
That's the majority of these interactions.
It's like people trying to find people who have erred or people who are worthy of attack and then going after them.
ethan suplee
Yeah, and I find that people that I could have total disagreement with on any of these things, if I sit down and have a conversation and try to see their point of view, I often do.
And I often have empathy, and suddenly they're a real person.
But if I take my understanding of them based on something I read or off a tweet or something like this or...
How they're discussed amongst other groups of people, then it just becomes like the other and I want nothing to do with them and they're scary and I won't talk to them intentionally.
And this to me is non-optimal.
This is not the way to do it.
joe rogan
Fucking real weird inclination that we have to treat people.
And this is why war is so awful, right?
Because people are really capable of simple, easy dehumanization of entire races of people.
Entire countries, nations of people.
They just decide, fuck the krauts.
We're dropping bombs.
Fuck these people.
We're going to put them in internment camps.
Fuck these people.
It's crazy.
ethan suplee
Politics today really look like the Catholics fighting the Protestants to me, where you're just like, wait, what are you guys really fighting about?
You guys are real close.
joe rogan
We're just so tribal, man.
Humans are so tribal.
It is built into our signals.
It's built into what we are.
We evolved in tribes, and we evolved to be fearful of other tribes, and as other tribes are going to do you damage and steal your resources and kill you.
We haven't gotten past that.
And the only way to get past that, I mean, you have to go on a journey, man.
You have to figure out for yourself and each person's personal journey.
It's like, think about your personal journey to lose the amount of weight that you did.
Fuck, imagine trying to tell someone who's 500 pounds, this is what you're gonna have to do.
ethan suplee
It's gonna take years.
And then you're gonna work on it for a few more years to try to fucking dial it in once you've done it.
joe rogan
And then the seesaw.
Like when you went back and forth, back and forth.
I mean, imagine, like you gained 100 pounds at one point in time, right?
Back?
ethan suplee
Multiple times.
joe rogan
Imagine, try and tell someone about these problems that you're gonna encounter.
ethan suplee
How about this?
I had loose skin removed.
Fell, injured myself, tore my side open, and then gained 100 pounds.
Jesus.
Yeah, dude, that's fucking real.
joe rogan
That's fucking real.
Everybody's journey, this journey to be the optimal version of yourself, everyone's journey is very different.
And we're all in this together.
That's...
That's the biggest message.
And if you think you're not, you're fucked.
You're fucked if you think we're not in this together.
If you think you're on your own, you're autonomous and fuck the world, okay.
Good luck with that, dude.
You're not going to be happy.
We're most happy when we're in this together.
We're most happy when we're...
When you can work out a disagreement with someone, one of my favorite things about fights is when they hug afterwards.
ethan suplee
Yeah, I love that too.
I love it, especially if they talk shit in the beginning.
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then they grab their hands.
Can't even hug you, motherfucker.
I love you.
And I love it.
I really do.
I love fights, too.
It's very contradicting.
ethan suplee
I don't see that enough with the Diaz boys.
I wish they were hugging people a little bit more.
They talk a lot of shit, and they're so angry.
And I love them.
But I want to see every now and again them hug the guy.
joe rogan
Well, him and Conor hugged after their second fight.
ethan suplee
That's true.
joe rogan
Nate did.
Yeah.
They're hard people, man.
It's...
Yeah, the friendship that comes out of resolving conflict is a beautiful friendship.
If you can let things go, people have to learn how to not hold grudges, man.
Not holding grudges is a beautiful thing.
It's a beautiful virtue, you know, and just to let it go.
Just let it go.
We're all flawed.
We're all people, you know?
We can do this.
It can be done, but it takes work.
I'm not good at it all the time either.
I'm talking a lot of shit right now, but sometimes I'm an angry person as well.
I came here straight from the gym, so I feel great.
I went to the gym this morning too.
That's part of it.
I worked out all my shit.
But if you caught me three days in a row, no gym, who knows?
Maybe I'm like, fuck them and fuck this.
I have an inclination to I have an inclination towards aggression and say fuck you and fuck this and fuck that.
And I try real hard to avoid that inclination and to get better.
And it's not better in like one fell swoop.
It's like I don't learn it from one mistake and now I'm better.
It's like I need to make a gang of mistakes and keep recognizing that I made those mistakes and better.
And I think we need to have that leeway, not just personally for ourselves, because generally, if you're healthy, try to give yourself a little leeway for mistakes.
We need to have that leeway for other people.
And I was thinking about this on the way over here.
I was thinking about felons, like felons that can't vote.
Like, you get arrested when you're 17 for robbing a bank, and then you can never vote for the rest of your life.
Does that make sense?
ethan suplee
I mean, we could just take what our mutual friend Michael Malice has to say about voting and talk about how all votes are an act of violence or they're all illegal and nobody should be voting at all.
joe rogan
He's crazy!
Michael, he's such a freak.
There's no one like Michael Malice.
I love that guy.
He's such a fun dude.
But he's also like, he's so smart that he can argue these really untenable positions like there should be no police.
There should be no police.
I'm like, bro, I'll steal everything you have if there's no police.
What are you talking about?
What if I'm a bad guy?
ethan suplee
No, of course not me.
joe rogan
If I was a bad guy, for sure.
ethan suplee
I think about this sometimes and I think about like you go back to ancient Rome and there weren't explicit laws against murder.
Eventually, and I mean like 700 years into the Roman Empire, they made laws about killing slaves because they were just like, people are killing too many slaves.
You shouldn't just kill your slaves.
But that took a long time.
Up until then, it wasn't like people were just...
Killing everyone.
There was murder.
It happened.
But it wasn't chaos of people killing right and left.
I think of people in jail for murder and I think we have laws against murder and people still murder.
I don't know that I've never murdered somebody because there's a law.
I just don't want to murder people.
joe rogan
But I think we're different now than we were back then just because the moral environment that we're evolving in.
So many people are communicating about the sadness of losing loved ones and you see it.
It's more personal.
That information reaches you.
Whereas back then, again, they were the other.
If you murdered someone, they were the other.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's certain things, though.
Like, you take a child's life.
You know, you stab a child.
Like, I can't.
ethan suplee
Ancient Rome, the parents were allowed to kill their kids.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
Really?
ethan suplee
It was up to the parents.
And there were some rules about if the kid was really disfigured, you had to kill it.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
ethan suplee
There were some, like, strong inclinations.
joe rogan
Oh, so the child was born disfigured?
ethan suplee
Yeah, but, like, I mean, I forget exactly the language, but, like, yeah, that was left up to the family.
If the father and mother decided...
So they find, like, pits, and they were basically just buried at the house.
Pits where, over hundreds of years, tons of kids were just getting buried because, potentially, they were killed by their family.
joe rogan
Dude.
ethan suplee
That's rough.
That's not how we live today.
joe rogan
Well, the Spartans, didn't they take some babies that were weak and they just leave them in the woods?
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Fucking A, man.
ethan suplee
It was a different time.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
I'm not advocating for any of that.
joe rogan
No, of course.
ethan suplee
I hope that's clear.
joe rogan
No, of course.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, you know, if you look at Steven Pinker's work when he talks about violence over the course of history...
It's a lot less!
Yeah, a lot less.
When people want to think about the world today as opposed to the world of the past, they want to make this, you know, this judgment that today's filled with monsters and assholes and, you know, society's fucked.
Like, it's the best time to live ever.
Ever.
ethan suplee
But wasn't it always?
joe rogan
Yes.
Every time that people have ever been.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Except maybe, yeah.
ethan suplee
Yeah, that was rough.
joe rogan
There were some times where the shit hit the fan.
ethan suplee
Or a severe famine, you know, the Dutch winter famine.
That was a rough thing.
joe rogan
Black plague.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was probably better a couple years before the plague.
ethan suplee
Yeah, and then after.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ethan suplee
Yeah.
joe rogan
Listen, brother, we just did more than three fucking hours.
ethan suplee
I love it.
Joe, my wife will yell at me if I don't say, I do have a podcast called American Glutton where all we talk about is diet.
So if anybody's interested, please tune in.
joe rogan
And it's on iTunes, Spotify, everywhere?
ethan suplee
Yeah, all those things.
joe rogan
All right, beautiful.
Dude, thank you so much, man.
ethan suplee
Thank you.
I really appreciate it.
joe rogan
That was an awesome conversation.
ethan suplee
I've been a fan for years.
joe rogan
Thanks, brother.
I'm a fan of yours, too.
Can we do this again?
ethan suplee
I would love to.
joe rogan
Let's do it again.
ethan suplee
Yes.
unidentified
All right.
joe rogan
Bye, everybody.
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