Feb. 4, 2020 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:50:19
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Three, two, one. | ||
| Lex, handsome as ever. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Well dressed. | ||
| Always feel like a slob when I'm around you. | ||
| Do you dress like that in real life or only when you do podcasts? | ||
| Yeah, so I have two outfits. | ||
| This and black shirt and jeans. | ||
| Slick outfit. | ||
| There's nothing more classic than a dark suit with a white shirt and a black tie. | ||
| Is that a black tie or is that a dark blue? | ||
| Black tie. | ||
| Black suit, black tie. | ||
| It's armor. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It makes me feel like it focuses the mind. | ||
| Like a professional. | ||
| Yeah, like I'm taking this seriously. | ||
| Yes, yes, yes. | ||
| Like, you're fucking for real, man. | ||
| You got notes and shit? | ||
| Yeah, I got notes and shit, but I... But given this suit, like, I like to get, like, dirty. | ||
| Like, I like to work in a car or whatever. | ||
| Like, I don't want to... | ||
| Like, I love to get in a fight in this. | ||
| This isn't like me trying to protect myself from the messiness of the real world. | ||
| Oh, I understand. | ||
| This is a karma. | ||
| It just looks good. | ||
| It just makes you feel like a professional. | ||
| Is it flexible? | ||
| Like, you know, they make clothes that are flex. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You can move in it? | ||
| I can move in it. | ||
| Oh, that's nice. | ||
| I mean, you showed me how you can choke me last time with the tie. | ||
| Did you get a breakaway tie? | ||
| No, I didn't. | ||
| But, you know, I kind of let you have that one because I think I can defend it pretty well. | ||
| Well, you're probably very good at defending chokes, yeah. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| With the tie. | ||
| I don't have a system yet. | ||
| I'll have to talk to John Donahue to develop a tie. | ||
| All you have to do, man, is just take the back of the tie, cut it, put a little piece of Velcro on each end. | ||
| You got the same tie. | ||
| But I think you going under the tie to try to start the choke, actually, I mean, you're making yourself vulnerable. | ||
| Like maybe to an arm bar or something like that. | ||
| Don't be silly. | ||
| Don't be silly. | ||
| Well, listen, if someone grabs a hold of your collar, that's the same thing. | ||
| Ezekiel chokes are deadly, right? | ||
| Yeah, but it's not over. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, if you sink it in, it's over. | |
| Collars are a real problem, right, in jiu-jitsu. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're a real problem. | ||
| If someone gets deep on your collar... | ||
| Like even on this, with a suit, right? | ||
| Someone starts doing this, man, you're fucked. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Collars are not good. | ||
| If you go deep, if you get in deep. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well, the problem with that is it's a handle. | ||
| It's worse than a collar because I'll get underneath that knot and I'll grab ahold of that bitch and then it's all just twisting. | ||
| Yeah, but you have to... | ||
| You're right. | ||
| I would have to get it. | ||
| I'd have to get it. | ||
| And you also kind of have to hold on to this part because it can loosen naturally unless you're really good at like... | ||
| Because it loosens... | ||
| Does it? | ||
| Yeah, it loosens naturally. | ||
| There's a system to this. | ||
| I think... | ||
| You haven't thought through this. | ||
| You don't think I have? | ||
| Dude, I try to choke people with ties on. | ||
| Just friends, yeah. | ||
| I'm like, let me grab a hold of that tie real quick. | ||
| What happens if I do this? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No. | ||
| No, not jujitsu people. | ||
| And also, it's probably a joke. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| If I was fighting for my life, I think it'd be different. | ||
| But sure, you're a tough guy. | ||
| You are actually trained martial artists. | ||
| I mean, I'm not saying it would be easy to grab your tie and choke you to death. | ||
| What I'm saying is it's one more area of vulnerability that doesn't need to exist. | ||
| Yeah, but see, I'm disagreeing with you and saying, like, if I was gonna fight to the death, I would wear the suit. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Because then I would look good. | ||
| Let me tell you something about CIA agents and Secret Service guys. | ||
| They wear breakaway ties. | ||
| That's because they're not good martial artists. | ||
| Oh, that's not true. | ||
| There's a lot of those guys are savages. | ||
| Are they? | ||
| Fuck yeah, man. | ||
| You mean like blue belts or purple belts? | ||
| No, black belts, man. | ||
| If you're a fucking, if you're a Secret Service guy and you're supposed to be protecting the president, I guarantee you, a bunch of those guys are savages. | ||
| I think they're smart enough to use guns. | ||
| That too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But they don't, you know, if they have to wear a tie, a lot of people like to wear breakaway ties. | ||
| Is that a fact? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| I might be making this up right now. | ||
| I think that's a bro fact. | ||
| No, I know, but it's a little bro fact, but only like 10%. | ||
| I think, let's Google breakaway ties for self-defense. | ||
| Because, dude, look, I'm definitely a dummy, right? | ||
| Okay, I think about this stuff too much. | ||
| But when I was driving limos, I always felt super vulnerable when I had to wear that tie. | ||
| It looks good, though. | ||
| Actually, my first album, my first real album that I ever did for Warner Brothers was in 1999, and I wore exactly that outfit. | ||
| I wore a black suit with a white shirt and a black tie, and it looked dope. | ||
| It's called I'm Gonna Be Dead Someday. | ||
| Like a stand-up? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Look at that. | ||
| Breakaway tie, son. | ||
| Low pro. | ||
| Breakaway tie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Woo! | |
| That's what I'm wearing. | ||
| Let me explain to you something. | ||
| Come get some. | ||
| Most people, when they're vulnerable, like say, I'm afraid I'm going to be picked on by bullies. | ||
| I learned a martial art how to defend myself. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You, when you felt vulnerable wearing a tie, decided not to wear a tie as opposed to learn how to defend yourself while wearing a tie. | ||
| There must be a system. | ||
| I guarantee you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| You could say that. | ||
| You could defend yourself if you had a dog collar around your neck too, but I wouldn't recommend it. | ||
| I wouldn't recommend it. | ||
| I took my dog out once. | ||
| I had a pit bull and he bit my cat. | ||
| He grabbed ahold of my cat. | ||
| It's a terrible story. | ||
| I had a crazy dog. | ||
| One of my dogs was a dog that I had gotten. | ||
| I was young and irresponsible in my 20s. | ||
| And I had gotten this dog that was bred from a pig hunting dog in Hawaii. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And those dogs are hyper animal aggressive. | ||
| They're great with people. | ||
| He was great with people. | ||
| He loved people. | ||
| But everything that moved, he was like locked in on. | ||
| He would spend his days in my yard chasing lizards. | ||
| His thing was to jump up on the wall of the house and try to snatch lizards. | ||
| It was like a video game for him. | ||
| And my friend Eddie was terrified of this dog. | ||
| Eddie Bravo? | ||
| Yeah, and so Eddie would come over the house, and Frank would just decide that he runs shit when Eddie's around, because Eddie was so scared of him. | ||
| He'd be like, hmm, I think I'm gonna kill this cat. | ||
| So he just tried to kill my cat, and I got a hold of him in time, and I got my hand into his collar, and I choked him unconscious. | ||
| Like on top of his head like that? | ||
| Yeah, I just dug... | ||
| Oh, from behind? | ||
| Yeah, from behind, I just dug my hand under his collar, and I twisted, and I put him to sleep. | ||
| He went right out. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| Yeah, it works. | ||
| It works on dogs. | ||
| Yeah, I wasn't thinking from the back, I was thinking from the front. | ||
| Anywhere you can grab a dog collar, if you get your hand in there, if you're strong enough and you have good technique, you know how to go knee on belly, and then you twist it. | ||
| You can put a dog to sleep. | ||
| Wow, you're changing my mind. | ||
| See? | ||
| Yeah, but I don't know. | ||
| I mean, look, obviously you're going to be aware of that and you're going to defend, but it's an area of vulnerability. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Pull up 1990 and pull up I'm Gonna Be Dead Someday, the cover of that, because I'm literally dressed exactly like you. | ||
| On the cover or when actually doing the show? | ||
| No, I never wore it doing a show. | ||
| I think I just wore it for the cover. | ||
| Almost ironically. | ||
| No, I kind of like the way it looked. | ||
| You know, there it is. | ||
| Bam. | ||
| It's hard to tell there because that one's orange and the other one's hot pink. | ||
| But it's like the shirt collar's a little more open, like you don't give a damn. | ||
| Well, that was a long day, and there was a long photo shoot, and we were drinking. | ||
| Yeah, that's what it looks like. | ||
| There was a lot of chaos involved. | ||
| That's legit. | ||
| There's legit. | ||
| There was a lot of stuff going on there. | ||
| But I like that look. | ||
| It's a good look. | ||
| By the way, congratulations on the 10 years. | ||
| Oh, thank you very much. | ||
| I don't think you've celebrated. | ||
| All I see is on Jamie's Instagram like a naked picture of Bert. | ||
| The 10-year picture? | ||
| Yeah, we probably should do something. | ||
| It was December was officially 10 years, so it was two months ago. | ||
| Probably should have some sort of a party or something. | ||
| I know you don't like to talk about it, think about it, but you've inspired millions. | ||
| It's very nice. | ||
| It's a very nice side effect, but it's a weird gig, man. | ||
| It's a gig that became what it is. | ||
| Slowly, without me understanding what was happening, why it was happening, which makes it weirder and weirder. | ||
| And with it has come increasingly stronger levels of responsibility. | ||
| To where, you know, now I have to actually vet guests and think about what they're saying, whereas before I would have someone on if they're crazy, I was like, let that crazy motherfucker on, let's hear what he has to say. | ||
| And people would say a lot of crazy shit, and then they would say, oh, you know, you didn't push back, or you had this person on, and they said something irresponsible, and I had no idea what they were going to say. | ||
| There's a lot of people that have said some pretty outrageous things that I had no idea they were going to say. | ||
| Yeah, I saw the... | ||
| One of the things you inspired me to do is to start a podcast on artificial intelligence. | ||
| And I have Jack Dorsey as a guest coming up. | ||
| And that's a good example of somebody you got an insane amount of pushback on. | ||
| Yes, because they were mad that I didn't talk to him about censorship. | ||
| My take on it was... | ||
| It was certainly irresponsible on my part, the first podcast. | ||
| Because my take on it was, I just want to see what it's like to be a guy that starts this thing and it becomes probably one of the most important conversation tools the world has ever known. | ||
| And also along the way, it becomes something weird. | ||
| Like, now it's weird. | ||
| Twitter now is just this... | ||
| It's just 50% hot dumpster fire. | ||
| It's so much. | ||
| Yeah, but it's also amazing, inspiring stuff. | ||
| You can always find the dumpster fire in all kinds of conversations. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| The confusing thing to me about your conversation with Jack, which I didn't look at the internet before I listened to it, and I really enjoyed it. | ||
| It was interesting. | ||
| I learned a lot from your first conversation with Jack. | ||
| And then I looked at the internet that told me I'm supposed to hate that conversation. | ||
| And what I'm confused about is why. | ||
| Why is there such hatred thrown towards... | ||
| I also talked to the head of the YouTube algorithm, Search and Discovery. | ||
| A lot of hate towards YouTube. | ||
| A lot of hate towards Twitter. | ||
| A lot of hate towards Facebook. | ||
| And deservedly so. | ||
| There's some challenges and so on. | ||
| But they're doing like an incredible service. | ||
| And the algorithm they're trying to develop and control is really hard to develop and control. | ||
| Yes, for sure. | ||
| So the pushback that people get, it's almost like they're taking specific anecdotal pieces of evidence. | ||
| Or look, this person said this and it's... | ||
| It's not that problematic in our eyes, but they somehow got censored from the platform, removed from the platform. | ||
| And they don't look at the bigger picture of how challenging the entirety of it is and how incredible... | ||
| First of all, how incredible the platform is to have a conversation, like a global conversation like this, and how hard it is to do to achieve the goal of having... | ||
| It sounds like cheesy, but having a healthy conversation, a healthy discourse. | ||
| Because... | ||
| You want an algorithm and a platform that removes the assholes from the scene because it's a really difficult challenge because one person who's really loud, who's screaming in the room, comes to the party. | ||
| You have a cool party, a bunch of cool people, some communists, some right-wingers, whatever. | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| They can all disagree. | ||
| But they're not assholes. | ||
| They're there to have an interesting debate, conversation, and so on. | ||
| And then there's somebody that comes and just starts screaming one slogan or something like that. | ||
| Or is trolling, is completely non-genuine in their way of communication. | ||
| They're destroying the nature of the conversation. | ||
| And then, of course, that person, if they get, you know, the bodyguards come in and say, can you please leave the party, sir? | ||
| Then they get extremely, that's exactly the kind of personality that's extremely upset. | ||
| And sometimes they almost look for that. | ||
| So what are you supposed to do as Jack Dorsey, as a leader of that kind of platform? | ||
| It's a very good question and I really think that there's no real answer. | ||
| It's one of the reasons why it's so frustrating. | ||
| You know, if you just let people say whatever they want whenever they want to, there's gonna be a lot of people that get turned off to that kind of a platform because you're gonna have a lot of people yelling out racial slurs, ethnic slurs, gender slurs, homophobic slurs, There's going to be a bunch of people that are trolling. | ||
| There's going to be a bunch of people that just say things to rile people up and that's all they do. | ||
| There's going to be a bunch of people that just want to shit stir and they want to dox people. | ||
| So then you have to set parameters. | ||
| Like what are the parameters? | ||
| You can't dox people. | ||
| You can't – don't say racial slurs. | ||
| Don't say ethnic slurs. | ||
| It's you're managing at scale and you're managing an insane amount of people. | ||
| But then there's legitimate criticism that they lean towards progressive people and liberal people and they have woke politics. | ||
| Like, for instance, you can get banned from Twitter. | ||
| For life if you dead name someone so Lex if you became a Female and you change your name to Ally and I just said fuck you man, you're Lex Banned for life. | ||
| That's what a dead name That's dead naming like if you wanted to call Caitlyn Jenner if you want to call Caitlyn Jenner Bruce on Twitter You would get dead named or you would be dead naming her and you would get banned for life a woman named Megan Murphy Who is a TERF? Do you know the TERF is? | ||
| What do you think? | ||
| I don't know what a TERF is. | ||
| I'm sure you don't. | ||
| You're two balls deep in science. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| TERF is trans-exclusionary radical feminist. | ||
| So trans-exclusionary... | ||
| Why do I have such a hard time with that word? | ||
| Exclusionary, right? | ||
| Exclusionary. | ||
| Why does it sound wrong? | ||
| Exclusionary sounds wrong. | ||
| What does it mean to be exclusionary to trans? | ||
| Turfs do not want trans people to have a say in women's issues. | ||
| I see. | ||
| They think that they are a different thing. | ||
| That there's women and women's issues and these feminists that have been female their whole life dealing with women's issues do not want trans people coming in and in many cases what you find is that trans people come in and then the conversation changes and it becomes about trans issues and they want these conversations to be about women's issues in feminist movements. | ||
| It's complicated, right? | ||
| She got banned from Twitter for life for saying a man is never a woman. | ||
| They made her take the tweet down, so she took a screenshot of it, took it down, and then put the screenshot back up, and then they banned it for life. | ||
| Should she get banned? | ||
| No! | ||
| No, she shouldn't, because biologically she's correct. | ||
| If there's an argument there, if there's an argument, a scientific argument, a man is never a woman, but can a man identify as a woman, and should you respect him I'm not too deep into thinking about these specific issues, but the question is whether you should get banned for being an asshole or you should get banned for lying. | ||
| Because I think lying is okay. | ||
| A lot of people lie on Twitter. | ||
| Insult. | ||
| You can insult people on Twitter as long as you're not specific about their gender. | ||
| The insult thing, that's where it gets, it's the party thing. | ||
| If you have the asshole douchebag, whatever term you want to use, they show up to the party. | ||
| And then if a person shows up to the party and a lot of people leave because they're annoying or whatever, that should be, like we should do something to discourage that behavior. | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| However, let's paint a different picture of a party. | ||
| Let's have a party where everyone says, my pronouns are they, them, and zzer, and javu, and then you come in, you go, come on, bro, you're a guy. | ||
| And like, no, no, no, I'm a they, you fucking cisgendered, heteronormative piece of shit. | ||
| And then they want to kick you out of the party. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All you're saying is you're a guy. | ||
| Ban both of them. | ||
| No, wait. | ||
| Ban the person who's not open-minded or respectful for the... | ||
| Don't ban people. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| So, of course, it's been well documented by people now. | ||
| The reason we probably have the current president is that the people on the left are very also rude and disrespectful. | ||
| It's a small percentage of the people on the left. | ||
| It's very small. | ||
| This is part of the real issue. | ||
| They're all on Twitter. | ||
| They are all on Twitter, but it's also the small percentage when you... | ||
| It's so hard to have a group and call that group the left because the variables are so extreme. | ||
| There's so many different people that follow politics or that espouse to certain belief systems that recognize themselves as left. | ||
| Funny enough, you're probably on the left. | ||
| Yes, I'm very much on the left. | ||
| But I don't get considered to be on the left because I'm a cage fighting commentator. | ||
| With an American flag behind you. | ||
| Yeah, I'm very bro-ish. | ||
| I hunt. | ||
| I bow hunt, which is even more bro-ish. | ||
| And I am unabashedly masculine. | ||
| I'm a man. | ||
| And a comedian. | ||
| Yes, and I'm a dirty comedian, and I make fun of everything, including sacred cows, like gender, homosexuality, heterosexuality, my own kids, my wife, my mom, everybody. | ||
| I make fun of everybody. | ||
| And if you take that stuff out of context and just publish a bunch of it, it makes you look like a moron, or it makes you look like an asshole. | ||
| That's, you know, what is the left, right? | ||
| What is the left? | ||
| In my mind, the left, when I was a child, I always thought of the left because I grew up, my parents were hippies, right? | ||
| My stepdad was an architect and before that he was a computer programmer. | ||
| He had long hair until I was, I think I was 20 years old when he cut his hair. | ||
| I mean long, like down to his ass like a Native American. | ||
| Nice. | ||
| And he, you know, they always, he smoked pot when I was little. | ||
| I mean, he... | ||
| I was always around hippies. | ||
| I lived in San Francisco from the time I was seven till I was eleven. | ||
| And my family was very left-wing. | ||
| They were always pro-gay marriage, pro-gay rights, pro-racial equality, pro... | ||
| Just name it, man. | ||
| Pro-welfare, pro... | ||
| The idea was open-mindedness, education, all these things are good. | ||
| And war was bad. | ||
| There's a lot of things that maybe they had very strong beliefs on that maybe they weren't entirely nuanced on as well. | ||
| You find that about people on the left as much as you find that about people on the right. | ||
| But it's... | ||
| The radicals on both sides. | ||
| There's nothing wrong with being conservative, right? | ||
| There's nothing wrong with valuing hard work. | ||
| There's nothing wrong with someone who values fiscal frugality or someone who is, you know, you have a conservative view on economics or on social policies. | ||
| You know, and you want less government. | ||
| There's nothing wrong with those things either. | ||
| Yeah, that's when you get extreme. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The guest was an amazing guest you had recently that converted a bunch of folks from the KKK. Daryl Davis. | ||
| Yeah, wow. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fuck. | |
| This is him right here. | ||
| This is his CD. He's amazing. | ||
| He's an incredible human, man. | ||
| But that kind of thinking, I wish you saw more of that in politics. | ||
| Sort of like, not, even if you're on the left, to be, to talk to people on the right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Instead of just shut them out, that's the problem with this idea of kicking people out of the party. | ||
| You kick people out of the party, guys like Daryl Davis never get to convert them. | ||
| There's been people from Twitter that have been converted. | ||
| You know, Megan Phelps is a famous one. | ||
| She was a part of the Westboro Baptist Church. | ||
| Her grandfather was Fred Phelps, that fucking famous crazy asshole who was like super rude, like who, you know, would make them... | ||
| Take those signs that say God hates fags and literally go to soldiers' funerals and say that soldiers died because God is angry that people are homosexual. | ||
| So Megan was completely entrenched in this toxic ideology. | ||
| And Twitter allowed her to escape that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yes. | ||
| She met her husband on Twitter from arguing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's a beautiful thing. | |
| Back and forth. | ||
| And now she's out. | ||
| And if you talk to her, you would never believe it. | ||
| And man, not that long ago either. | ||
| Not that long ago, she was in that church like six years ago. | ||
| It's kind of incredible that you can sort of outgrow that mindset. | ||
| So no matter, I mean, that's inspiring that you can hold a mindset of hatred and outgrow, escape it. | ||
| Well, she was indoctrinated into it from the time she was a child. | ||
| And, you know, for her, it was the only life she knew, right? | ||
| Her family is in that. | ||
| And for her, she just, I mean, by whatever, for whatever grace of the grand universe plan, she had enough open-mindedness to take into consideration some of these other things that people were saying. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Man. | |
| We have a problem today with cancel culture. | ||
| It's a real problem, is that you just want to write people off. | ||
| Well, those people still exist. | ||
| It's basically a cultural form of euthanasia. | ||
| You just want to go out and whack everyone who doesn't agree with you. | ||
| But if you do that, Whether it's eugenics or whatever you want to call it, you just eliminate everyone who's not the way that you like. | ||
| Culturally eliminate them. | ||
| Take them out of the conversation. | ||
| They still exist. | ||
| They still exist. | ||
| So what happens then? | ||
| Well, then they're angry. | ||
| They're angry. | ||
| They're left out of the conversation and they don't grow. | ||
| And then you've written them off as a human being. | ||
| You said that they're 100% bad. | ||
| Now, if you had a spectrum Of people in this world, 100% bad and 100% good. | ||
| I mean, there are some beautiful people that really are 100% good. | ||
| Like my friend Justin Wren, who runs Fight for the Forgotten Charity, he's about as close to 100% good as you can get. | ||
| I mean, this beautiful person goes to the Congo and makes wells for the pygmies and gets malaria. | ||
| He's got some crazy parasite now that they don't even know what it is. | ||
| They can't recognize it. | ||
| He's been suffering for eight months now, I think. | ||
| That's about as good as you can get, right? | ||
| And then there's people, you know, you could... | ||
| It's a gray area when you start to drift away from the... | ||
| I have the same thing in my... | ||
| That's the focus I have in the academic setting of science. | ||
| That's the inspiration of your podcast that you gave me, is to talk outside the people that are sort of conventionally accepted by the scientific community. | ||
| Like a little bit on the fringes. | ||
| On the quote-unquote fringes. | ||
| So you have the same thing in machine learning and artificial intelligence. | ||
| There's people that are working on specific, it's called deep learning, these learning methodologies that are accepted. | ||
| There's conferences and we all kind of accept the problems we're working on and there's people a little bit on the fringes. | ||
| There's people in neuroscience, actually anybody thinking about working on what's called artificial general intelligence is already on the fringes. | ||
| If you even raise the question, okay, so how do we build human level intelligence? | ||
| That's a little bit of a taboo subject. | ||
| The consciousness is called the C word for a while. | ||
| Consciousness. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Well, it's scientists. | ||
| I know. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| Explain it to me. | ||
| What's the aversion? | ||
| What is everyone worried about? | ||
| What are they worried about? | ||
| It's this culture of rolling your eyes the same way you might roll your eyes if somebody tells you the earth is flat. | ||
| They sort of put all other things in that category as well. | ||
| It's like, well, okay, whatever. | ||
| So in the case of consciousness, we really don't understand very much at all what consciousness is. | ||
| What the subjective experience, the fact that it feels like something to take in the world, that it's not just... | ||
| Raw sensory information being processed. | ||
| It actually feels like to touch something, to taste something, to see something. | ||
| It's like incredible. | ||
| David Chalmers calls it the hard problem of consciousness. | ||
| Why do we feel it? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But we don't have scientific, physics, engineering methods of studying consciousness. | ||
| So it immediately gets put into this bin that it's not an okay thing. | ||
| Like you're a little bit crazy. | ||
| Daryl was saying that that's a slur. | ||
| I never even thought of that. | ||
| I didn't think of what that meant. | ||
| Yeah, so they already put in this bin of you're not a legitimate researcher. | ||
| And the same kind of, you know, and I think we're now in a culture which is great. | ||
| You know, Eric Weinstein is good at this. | ||
| I'm hoping to be good at this. | ||
| You're good at this, at allowing those people on the fringes in and saying, what are your ideas? | ||
| Exploring those. | ||
| Of course, you have a greater and greater platform to where there is a line. | ||
| You don't want too far on the fringes. | ||
| Yeah, that's something I'm aware of now that I wasn't aware of, say, like three or four years ago. | ||
| And I used to have a lot of those... | ||
| I've had some people on that I would never have on again. | ||
| And then I've had some people on that I've been criticized for having them on. | ||
| I'm like, okay, I see why you are upset, but I think there's value in having conversations with people that are on the fringes. | ||
| There's people that are bad faith actors, right? | ||
| They act in bad faith. | ||
| Those are the ones you have to be careful of. | ||
| And sometimes you don't know who they are until you get to know them. | ||
| And then you've already kind of opened the door. | ||
| Like for some people, for like the Democratic, the legitimate seven-year-old plus Democratic Party, Tulsi Gabbard is on the fringe. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Right? | ||
| But I think you having her on is great. | ||
| It's exploring, you know… She's one of the young minds exploring sort of the role of the United States, the foreign policy in the world, militarily, in terms of trade and so on. | ||
| So she has an excellent mind who I don't think is on the fringe. | ||
| I don't think she's on the fringe either. | ||
| Bernie Sanders for many people still is on the fringe. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think he gets misrepresented, though. | ||
| Yeah, for sure. | ||
| One of the things that was tremendously beneficial for me is to sit down with him for hours and have a conversation. | ||
| And you go, oh, you're a real person. | ||
| You're not this wacky guy yelling about billionaires. | ||
| When you get these 90-second soundbites and these debates, you don't get a chance to know who someone is. | ||
| Yeah, so I used to listen to this... | ||
| I listen to a lot of radio on the left and the right to try to take in what people are thinking about. | ||
| I used to listen to this program, I think it's called the Tom Hartman program. | ||
| He's like a major lefty. | ||
| But he had this segment called Brunch with Bernie. | ||
| And he would invite Bernie Sanders like every Friday or something like that. | ||
| And just sort of the intellectual honesty and curiosity that Bernie exhibited was just fascinating. | ||
| Sort of like, as opposed to being a political thing that just repeats the same message over and over, which actually what it kind of sounds like when you listen to him now publicly, he's actually a thinking individual and somebody who's open and changing his mind, but within that has just completely been consistent. | ||
| What people are terrified of is that he's going to raise taxes on successful people and ruin business. | ||
| That's what people are worried about, that in doing that, it will crash the economy. | ||
| I don't know if they're right. | ||
| I don't even know if they're... | ||
| So first of all, the people are using the word socialist. | ||
| So you're saying, he's a socialist. | ||
| Do you really want socialism? | ||
| America is a great country because we're a capitalist kind of thing. | ||
| From my perspective, I think we already have a huge number of socialists. | ||
| Well, he's a democratic socialist. | ||
| It's a different perspective. | ||
| He just values workers. | ||
| The idea is he wants people to earn a living wage. | ||
| He wants people to not be indebted with a tremendous amount of student loan debt when you're just 21 years old and getting out of college. | ||
| He thinks it's insane, and I agree with him. | ||
| He doesn't want people to be burdened in this insane way if you ever get sick, and I agree with him. | ||
| He wants to improve the healthcare system. | ||
| I think as a community, if we're looking at the United States as a community, one of the things that, you know, look, it's great to support business. | ||
| It's great to have a strong economy. | ||
| It's great to give business the confidence to take chances, and a lot of people think Donald Trump does that. | ||
| It's also great to take care of our own and I don't think we do that enough. | ||
| I don't think we take care of our own enough in terms of we have the same problems in the same inner cities that we've had for decade after decade after decade and there's no significant attempt to change that but meanwhile we do these nation-building projects in other countries and we have the interventionalist foreign policy where we go and invade these countries and try to prop up new New governments and try to support them and we spend insane amounts of money doing that and along the while we don't do | ||
| anything to our inner cities that are the exact same fucked up places that they were in the 70s and in the 60s. | ||
| Do you know who Michael Wood Jr. is? | ||
| No. | ||
| He was on the podcast a couple of times, and he used to be a police officer in Baltimore. | ||
| Yes, I know him. | ||
| Okay, so I listen to that podcast. | ||
| I'm just horrible with names. | ||
| His experience was, first of all, he found a piece of paper that showed a crime docket from the 1970s, all the stuff like drugs, crime, robbery. | ||
| It was all the same issues in the same neighborhoods that he was patrolling in today. | ||
| And he was like, holy shit. | ||
| And he realized like, oh, this is a quagmire. | ||
| And then he found out about the laws that were in place from way back in the day where you literally, if you were an African American, you couldn't buy a home in certain areas. | ||
| They had, what is that term? | ||
| Is it redlined? | ||
| Is that what the term is? | ||
| Where they designate certain areas where they literally won't sell homes to black people. | ||
| And he was becoming aware of this shit as he was a cop. | ||
| And, you know, in the beginning, he was all gung-ho. | ||
| He was like, I'm a cop. | ||
| You know, I'm here to bust bad guys and do the right thing. | ||
| And then along the way, he kind of recognized, you're dealing with systemic racism. | ||
| Redlining? | ||
| Redlining. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, that hasn't been addressed. | ||
| It's all about, I mean, there's a million other things at home. | ||
| Education, everything. | ||
| Yes, all those things. | ||
| I think Bernie Sanders, when he talks about those things... | ||
| He seems like a guy who really cares about education, healthcare, and people that live in poverty. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't know if he's going to be able to do anything. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| That's the main thing is like people say democratic socialist and so on is going to... | ||
| He's going to make a slight move into whatever direction he's trying to advocate, which in this case is more investment into the infrastructure and so on into our at home. | ||
| But like, you know, he's just one human being. | ||
| There has to be a Congress that represents the people. | ||
| And if there's anything, I think Congress is probably the most hated entity in all of the universe. | ||
| Like you look at all the polls of what people like and hate. | ||
| Like rats are above in terms of favorability ratings. | ||
| So Congress is really the broken system. | ||
| Bernie won't be able to do much, except take a little... | ||
| The role of the president, as I see it, is to... | ||
| One, the terrifying one, is to start wars. | ||
| And so it's a very serious responsibility you have to take. | ||
| And the second is to inspire the population. | ||
| In terms of executive power of enacting laws, there's not much power. | ||
| All you can do is... | ||
| What our current president is doing, sort of... | ||
| Inspiring, in that case, the Republicans in Congress to sort of work together to work on certain legislations. | ||
| So you can inspire the Congress and you can inspire the people, but you don't have actual direct power. | ||
| So Bernie is not going to turn America into a socialist He's going to take a small step into maybe focusing on one aspect, like healthcare or something like that, like President Obama did, and try to make a little change. | ||
| So in that sense, people that are genuine and have ideas, like Andrew Yang is another one. | ||
| He has a ridiculous number of ideas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know if you've seen He thinks all cops should be purple belts in jujitsu. | |
| Yeah, I like it. | ||
| I'm like, go Andrew! | ||
| Fuck yeah! | ||
| He has a million other ideas like it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He does! | |
| Well, he's a genius. | ||
| I mean, he's a brilliant guy. | ||
| And he's an entrepreneur, so he comes at this stuff from a different angle. | ||
| Yeah, and he's open-minded. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, I disagree with him on his evaluation of the state of artificial intelligence and automation in terms of its capabilities and having an impact on the economy. | ||
| You don't think it's going to be as much of a deal as he thinks it is? | ||
| On the time scale that he thinks it is. | ||
| But I also want to be careful sort of commenting on that because I think for him it's a tool to describe the concerns, the suffering that people go through in terms of losing their job, like the pain that people are feeling throughout the country. | ||
| It's like a mechanism he uses to talk to people about the future. | ||
| You know, there are people that are well off, like the different tech companies that should also contribute to investing in our community. | ||
| I mean, the specifics, I want to kind of sit back and relax a little bit. | ||
| It's like when you watch a sci-fi movie and the details are all really bad. | ||
| I want to just suspension a disbelief or whatever and just enjoy the movie. | ||
| In the same way, the stuff he says about AI, he's not very knowledgeable about AI and automation. | ||
| So it touches me a little bit the wrong way. | ||
| We're not as far along. | ||
| The transformative effects of artificial intelligence in terms of replacing humans in trucking, autonomous vehicles, something I know a couple of things about, is not going to be as... | ||
| I can speak relatively confidently. | ||
| The revolution in autonomous vehicles will be more gradual than Andrew is describing. | ||
| But that's okay. | ||
| He has a million other ideas. | ||
| And UBI, nevertheless, the universal basic income or some kind of support structure of that kind, nevertheless, could be a very good idea for people that lose their job, for people to be mobile in terms of going from one type of job to another type of job, so continually learning throughout their life. | ||
| It's just that artificial intelligence, in this case, I don't think will be the enemy. | ||
| There could be other things that are a little bit sort of neighbors of artificial intelligence, which is sort of the software world eating up some of the mechanization of factors and so on. | ||
| Maybe the fact that... | ||
| The kind of way that Tesla and Elon Musk are approaching the design and engineering of vehicles, they're a little bit more software-centric. | ||
| We'll change, we'll sort of move some of the job from Detroit, Michigan in terms of cars to the Silicon Valley. | ||
| Not necessarily location-wise, but sort of a different type of person would need to be hired to work on cars. | ||
| A little bit more software-engineering, software-centric versus the sort of hardcore mechanical engineers, more sort of traditionally called car guys or car gals. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, so there'll be some job replacement and so on, but it's not this artificial intelligence, trucks will completely replace your job. | ||
| And in the case of trucks, you know, it's not... | ||
| There's a lot of complicated aspects about the impact of automation. | ||
| Sort of trucking jobs, there's actually a lot of need for jobs. | ||
| Like, there's not the truck... | ||
| That job, there's already people leaving that job sector. | ||
| It's a really difficult job. | ||
| It doesn't pay as well as it should. | ||
| It's really difficult to train people and so on. | ||
| So the impact that he talks about in terms of AI is a little bit exaggerated. | ||
| Like I said, a million really good ideas. | ||
| He's open-minded. | ||
| So in terms of, I think, the nice role of a president is to have ideas, like the Purple Belt one, to inspire people and inspire Congress to implement some of those ideas and be open-minded and not take yourself seriously enough to think that you know all the right answers. | ||
| Andrew Yang, Bernie is like that. | ||
| Although Bernie is like 78 years old, so he's getting up there. | ||
| Yeah, look at President Tulsi when he kicks the bucket. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| I think Hillary Clinton endorsed Bernie and Tulsi Gabbard for president. | ||
| Reverse endorsement. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Accidentally? | |
| Well, yeah. | ||
| It's just such a petty thing to say that no one likes Bernie. | ||
| Like, come on, lady. | ||
| You're in the twilight of your life. | ||
| I think she's really aware of the fact that if she says something like that, people are going to like Bernie more. | ||
| I think it's an endorsement. | ||
| I don't think she has any idea of that. | ||
| I think she's super insulated. | ||
| I think she thinks that she can actually hamstring him by saying something like that. | ||
| And she doesn't understand that it just makes people realize that the things that they say about her are correct. | ||
| I don't think you gave her enough credit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| You gave her credit for killing Epstein. | ||
| I was joking. | ||
| I don't think she did it. | ||
| I think Bill did it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm joking too. | |
| Somebody did it. | ||
| I don't know who it was. | ||
| Maybe it's some scientist character. | ||
| Maybe he's still alive. | ||
| Could be. | ||
| That's what Eddie Bravo thinks. | ||
| Eddie Bravo thinks he's in Dominican Republic somewhere eating bananas and drinking Mai Tais. | ||
| It's a conspiracy on the conspiracy. | ||
| Yeah, well, Eddie's always like that. | ||
| He's many levels deep. | ||
| He plays 4D chess when it comes to conspiracies. | ||
| Do you think that Andrew Yang is off, but ultimately will be correct in terms of the automation timeline? | ||
| Do you think that maybe... | ||
| He doesn't know clearly as much as you know about automation and artificial intelligence. | ||
| But do you think that it's possible that, you know, I think he's looking at a timeline, I think he was thinking within the next 10 years, millions and millions of jobs are going to be replaced. | ||
| Do you think that it's more like 20 years or 30 years? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But still something to be concerned? | ||
| So the timeline, of course, nobody knows. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| But I think the timeline is much – the timescale is more stretched out. | ||
| So 20, 30 years. | ||
| And it will continue. | ||
| There will be certain key revolutions. | ||
| And those revolutions, it's an incorrect word to use, but they will be stretched out over time. | ||
| I think the autonomous vehicle revolution is something – To achieve a scale of millions of vehicles that are fully autonomously navigating our streets, I think is 20, 30 years away. | ||
| And it won't be like all of a sudden. | ||
| It'll be gradual. | ||
| It'll be people like the former Google self-driving car, Waymo company who's doing a lot of testing now, incredible engineer. | ||
| I visited them for a day. | ||
| It'll be expanding their efforts slowly. | ||
| They're doing also way more trucks, autonomous trucking. | ||
| They're already deploying them in Texas, I think. | ||
| And then, of course, Tesla, who's this year going to approach a million vehicles, and they're trying to achieve full self-driving capability. | ||
| But that's going to be gradual. | ||
| I just got a new update for the Tesla. | ||
| Uh-oh. | ||
| Some new self-driving update. | ||
| It costs four grand. | ||
| And I was like, what is it? | ||
| But I think I was high. | ||
| And I was looking at my phone, and I was like, hmm, okay, let's do it. | ||
| Let's do it. | ||
| And so I got this update, but I'm like, what did I just pay for? | ||
| And I don't even know if I'm going to use it, but I think it can change. | ||
| I think it does everything. | ||
| I think it changes lanes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, okay. | ||
| So I'm not exactly sure what the update is, but it's probably... | ||
| See if you can find out, Jamie. | ||
| So it's probably the quote-unquote full self-driving. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Very important. | ||
| I'm the safety person, I guess, on this podcast. | ||
| Tesla cannot drive itself fully, autonomously. | ||
| You have to keep your eyes on the road, always pay attention. | ||
| But I saw a guy sleeping on the internet, and he was fine. | ||
| Yeah, well... | ||
| In a car. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Out cold? | ||
| I'll look into it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Was it on CNN? No, it was someone filmed the guy. | |
| He was in his car, passed out. | ||
| Not just one. | ||
| There's been a few examples of that. | ||
| People commuting on their way to work, so out cold. | ||
| So some are for fun and fake, but it's certainly a real thing that you pass out and sleep. | ||
| We do that with manual-driven cars, too. | ||
| I enjoy driving home in my Tesla from the commie store at like 1 o'clock in the morning, hitting that autopilot. | ||
| And I keep my hand on the wheel, but it's a level of relaxation. | ||
| Keep your eyes on the road? | ||
| Yes! | ||
| I'm not looking at my phone or anything stupid, but it's just like a doo-doo. | ||
| You press that double button, and I just... | ||
| And it changes lanes. | ||
| Oh, it doesn't change lanes. | ||
| It stays in the lane. | ||
| It can change lanes, but I think you have to prompt it. | ||
| There's an option for navigate on autopilot. | ||
| It'll take you everywhere you need to go. | ||
| But I think you need to step in at certain points. | ||
| Yeah, and you actually... | ||
| So now it can change lanes without you pressing... | ||
| That's what it is now? | ||
| Yeah, so you can do it automatically. | ||
| And they're doing hundreds of thousands, I think. | ||
| They're tracking the number of automated lane changes. | ||
| First of all, incredible that this is possible. | ||
| There's hundreds of thousands of automated lane changes without human initiation happening right now. | ||
| I mean, to me as a sort of a robotics person, it's just incredibly... | ||
| Here it is from Whole Snack on Twitter. | ||
| It says, Tesla's new update lets the car recognize traffic cones, stop signs, and stop lines, trash cans, and stop lights at their colors. | ||
| If you try to run a stop sign under autopilot, the car emergency brakes and forces you to take over after. | ||
| Wow, you can't run stops on. | ||
| So this isn't the update you paid $4,000 for. | ||
| That's part of that, but I'm actually surprised. | ||
| But it says Tesla's new update. | ||
| What's the time on this, Jamie? | ||
| This is December 24th. | ||
| I was looking for more recent. | ||
| So this isn't the exact update that you paid $4,000 for. | ||
| I think this is a general part of the full self-driving, which is $4,000. | ||
| And just to be clear, again, safety person, it's not like it detects traffic lights, but it doesn't stop at the traffic lights for you. | ||
| And maybe in this case it does emergency braking on the south side, but it's not good enough. | ||
| It's not good enough. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's not there. | |
| It's not there. | ||
| Don't trust it. | ||
| It's not there. | ||
| In fact, there's a lot of people, including myself, think we're quite a few years away, but also on the podcast, just like you, got a chance to talk to Elon Musk, meet him, talk to him in person, and realize that there's people in this world that can make the impossible happen. | ||
| You interviewed him as well? | ||
| Yeah, twice. | ||
| Tell me, what's that experience like for you? | ||
| So, you know, it's quite incredible in the sense that he is a legit engineer and designer, which is like a pleasure for me. | ||
| I've talked to a few CEOs, talked to Eric Schmidt, just CEOs, and they're a little bit more business oriented. | ||
| Elon is really, really focused on the first principles to the physics level of the problems that are being solved, whether that's SpaceX with the fundamentals of reusable rockets and going into deep space and colonizing Mars, whether that's in Neuralink, getting to the core, the fundamentals of what it's like to have a computer communicate with the human brain. | ||
| And with Tesla, on the battery side, sort of saying... | ||
| He threw away a lot of the conventional thinking about what's required to build, first of all, an appealing electric car, but also one that has a long range. | ||
| That's something I don't know as much about. | ||
| But on the AI side, just... | ||
| I mean, he boldly said, from scratch, we can build a system ourselves in a matter of months, now a couple of years, that's able to drive autonomously. | ||
| I mean, most people would laugh at that idea. | ||
| Most roboticists that know from the DARPA challenge days, most of them know how hard this problem is. | ||
| He said, no, no, no, we're not only going to throw away LIDAR, which is this laser-based sensor, we're going to say cameras only, and we're going to use deep learning, machine learning, which is a learning-based system. | ||
| So it's a system that learns from scratch, and we're going to teach it to drive from eight cameras and so on. | ||
| So just talking to somebody like that was not – the fact that he thinks like that, I think it's just fun to talk to people like that. | ||
| I don't meet them often that say, no, no, no, stop this bullshit of thinking that this task is impossible. | ||
| Let's say, why is it impossible? | ||
| What you find out when you start to think about most problems from first principles is that it's not actually impossible. | ||
| And then you have to think, okay, so how do we make it happen? | ||
| How do we create an infrastructure that allows you to learn from huge amounts of data? | ||
| So one of the most revolutionary things that Tesla is doing and hopefully other car companies will be doing is the over-the-air software updates. | ||
| Just like the update that you got, the fact that just like on your phone you can get updates over time It means you can have a learning system, a machine learning based system that can learn and then deploy the thing it learned over time and do that weekly. | ||
| That sounds like maybe trivial, but nobody else is doing it and it's completely revolutionary. | ||
| So cars, once you buy them, they don't learn. | ||
| Most cars. | ||
| Tesla learns. | ||
| That's a huge thing. | ||
| Forget about Tesla Autopilot, all this stuff. | ||
| Just the fact that you can update the software, I think it's a revolutionary idea. | ||
| And then they're also doing everything else from scratch. | ||
| This is the first principles type of thinking. | ||
| The hardware. | ||
| So the hardware in your car, I don't know when you got the Tesla, but it should be hardware version 2. But that hardware performs what's called inference. | ||
| So it's already trained, it's already learned its thing, and it's just taking in the raw sensory input and making decisions. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| They built that hardware themselves from scratch. | ||
| Again, ballsy move. | ||
| Now they're building what they're calling, again, he's such a troll, but they're calling Dojo is the name of the specialized hardware for training the neural networks or training the models. | ||
| What training is, is the learning side of it. | ||
| So they're building their own like supercomputer. | ||
| Google has a TPU to improve the training. | ||
| TPU, what does that stand for? | ||
| Tensive processing unit. | ||
| It's the same thing as the more general NVIDIA has graphics processing unit GPUs that all the nerds, all the people like me have been using for machine learning to train neural networks. | ||
| It's what most gamers use to play video games, right? | ||
| But they have this nice quality that you can train huge neural networks on them. | ||
| TPU is a specialized hardware for training neural networks. | ||
| GPUs allow you to play video games and train neural networks. | ||
| TPUs clean some stuff up to make it more efficient, energy efficient, more efficient for the kinds of computation neural networks need. | ||
| Google has them. | ||
| A bunch of other companies have them. | ||
| You know, most car companies would be like, okay, let me partner with somebody else with Google to use their TPUs or use NVIDIA's GPUs. | ||
| Tesla's building it from scratch. | ||
| So that kind of from scratch thinking is incredible. | ||
| And the other two things that I really like about Musk is the hard work. | ||
| We live in a culture, like so many people, like I often don't sleep. | ||
| I do crazy shit in terms of just focus, stay up night sometimes. | ||
| And often people recommend to me that balance is really important. | ||
| Taking a break is important. | ||
| That you rejuvenate yourself, you return to it with fresh ideas. | ||
| All those things are true. | ||
| Sleep is important. | ||
| You had people on the podcast tell you how important sleep is. | ||
| But what most people don't Don't advise me. | ||
| Hard work is more important. | ||
| Passion is more important than all of those things. | ||
| That should come first. | ||
| And then sleep empowers it. | ||
| Rest empowers it. | ||
| Rejuvenation empowers it. | ||
| Especially in engineering disciplines. | ||
| Hard work is everything. | ||
| And he's sort of unapologetically about that. | ||
| It's not like a... | ||
| Come to us. | ||
| Come work with us. | ||
| It'll be a friendly environment with free snacks. | ||
| It's like you're going to work the hardest you've ever worked on, whether you agree with him or not, on the most important problems of your life. | ||
| I like that kind of thinking because it emphasizes the hard work. | ||
| The other part In terms of meeting him in person, I don't know if you got to interact with that off, because when he was on mic with you, he was very kind of... | ||
| It was hard to bring it out of him. | ||
| In person before that, he was very jovial and friendly and huggy. | ||
| He's great. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, he's fun. | |
| And then once he got on the microphone, I was like, oh, this is heavy lifting. | ||
| Bring this out of him. | ||
| So then we started drinking. | ||
| Drinking. | ||
| And then, oh, yeah. | ||
| It helps a lot. | ||
| And then once the drinking, you know, then I got to see who he is. | ||
| Yeah, I should have done that. | ||
| Your wife's drinking. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| No, I mean, the thing that's really interesting is he's gone... | ||
| If you look at his biography, like the kind of stress he's been under in terms of he's been at the brink of losing his companies several times. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And he, you know, he lost a child. | ||
| And he's just... | ||
| That's the other thing that inspired me is... | ||
| It's that he can be a good dad while running so many companies. | ||
| Because I often wonder about the kind of hours I pull and what I'm doing. | ||
| Can I have a family? | ||
| Because I'd love to be a father. | ||
| Can I have a family? | ||
| Can I be a good person? | ||
| It's very, very, very, very difficult if you're working 18 hours a day to give your kids the time that they need. | ||
| But it's possible. | ||
| Not 18 hours. | ||
| I believe there's in life months, maybe years, that you have to do the 18 hours a day. | ||
| But not always. | ||
| There's time for everything. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Do the sprint. | ||
| Sprints, yeah. | ||
| And then establish everything and then sit back. | ||
| But the problem with a lot of guys like him is, first of all, it's very difficult to find a replacement for the way he thinks, right? | ||
| So if he's a CEO of these companies and he's the one who's the mastermind behind all these things and then he wants to step back, finding a commensurate replacement is insanely difficult. | ||
| Because most people who would be Yeah, and there's not many people like him. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| That's actually the disappointing thing to me, is that his kind of thinking is a rarity. | ||
| I'm not sure why that is exactly. | ||
| Well, he's... | ||
| I joke around about it, but I think there's a spectrum of evolution. | ||
| And his mind is clearly way more advanced than my mind. | ||
| There's something going on in his mind in terms of his attraction to engineering issues, solutions to global problems, solutions to traffic problems, pollution problems, all the things that he's... | ||
| the Internet. | ||
| I mean, he's trying to give the world Internet. | ||
| I mean, he's got all these things going simultaneously. | ||
| And one of the things that I got out of him when I was talking to him... | ||
| Was that he almost has a hard time containing these ideas that are just pouring out of his head like a raging river like he's trying to catch handfuls of water and this raging river of ideas is going through his head You know and when he described his childhood that he thought that everybody was like that and then as he got older you know thought he was insane and Yeah. | ||
| I can relate to that. | ||
| I'm trying to learn how to talk, but I have trouble talking because there's like a million ideas running in my head. | ||
| Anything you say, I'll immediately start. | ||
| There's these weird tangents that go off, and I want to start thinking about them. | ||
| Is that true with a lot of people in your line of work? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I think so. | ||
| I think that's kind of puzzle solving. | ||
| Like, that's where the comfort is. | ||
| I'm just surprised that a CEO is able to continue being that kind of puzzle solver. | ||
| Did you see that tweet that he made about his plans? | ||
| Like, he put a tweet up in, I think it was 2006? | ||
| And then he's essentially done all those things. | ||
| He's done all those things. | ||
| Now, the thing is, most people, so a lot of people love Elon Musk, but there's quite a large community of people that don't love him so much. | ||
| Well, that's always the case. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| With anybody great. | ||
| I don't know if that's always the case. | ||
| When is it not the case? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Who accomplishes as many things as that guy does where everybody loves him? | ||
| It's a difficult... | ||
| I mean, I'm not a historian, but I could say Steve Jobs. | ||
| Terrible example. | ||
| So many people hated that guy. | ||
| So many people hated that guy. | ||
| I have personal friends that are involved in technology that wouldn't use Apple products because he's such a twat. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| They didn't want to have anything to do with him. | ||
| They knew people that were engineers under him. | ||
| They said it was horrible and mean and it just required so much. | ||
| He would scream at people and insult them. | ||
| He had these ideas in his head that he needed to get done. | ||
| And if you couldn't work the hours that you needed to do what he wanted to accomplish, he would treat you like shit. | ||
| Yeah, you're right. | ||
| I just wish the world was better. | ||
| Like with all people like that, like with Steve Jobs and with Elon Musk, when he dies, people will always, you'll remember the greatness, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So that's how it seems to work. | ||
| It's just sad that you can't celebrate that currently. | ||
| But I do think there's one particular aspect of his personality that I also share that pisses people off really bad, which is, like you said, he had a plan, but he's late on that plan. | ||
| He keeps promising things and he keeps being like a year or two or three late. | ||
| And that really, I don't know if it actually angers people or if people that already don't like you use that as a thing to say why they don't like you, but it's certainly a thing that people say a lot. | ||
| But I think that's an essential element of doing extremely difficult things is over-promising and trying to over-deliver. | ||
| That's the whole point. | ||
| Is to say, to make all the engineers around you believe that it's doable in a year. | ||
| That's essential to do it in two years. | ||
| And truly believing it seems to be essential. | ||
| Well, didn't he have people pay full price for that Roadster? | ||
| Like, you got on a list... | ||
| Ahead of time, yeah. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So you paid a quarter of a million dollars for a car that's essentially vaporware. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But the thing... | ||
| So I don't know. | ||
| There's a whole bunch of financial people that get, like, mad at that kind of idea. | ||
| They get furious. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Like, there's investors. | ||
| You know, it's like... | ||
| I think it's the most shorted stock in history. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So... | ||
| But it keeps kicking ass. | ||
| I don't... | ||
| It confuses the fuck out of people. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Both... | |
| To me, the stock market is the most boring thing ever and people, it's gambling. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And so you trying to say you're an expert in investing in the stock market, I blocked, I removed those people from my life because they don't say any interesting ideas. | ||
| I said it. | ||
| But, you know, when you're doing legitimate investment, yes, that's a really important service to society. | ||
| But if you're commenting on the fundamentals of engineering problems that real engineers are trying to solve, that's not interesting to me. | ||
| So that kind of stuff upsets, I think, financial folks. | ||
| But the beautiful thing is when you have people buy vaporware And you bring that vaporware to reality. | ||
| That's the amazing thing. | ||
| He will definitely bring that roadster to reality. | ||
| If he doesn't die, that roadster will happen. | ||
| If he dies, bail out now. | ||
| Same with that insane Cybertruck. | ||
| Yeah, Cybertruck is fucking awesome. | ||
| It's so ridiculous. | ||
| If he lives long enough, you better believe there's humans being put on Mars. | ||
| Whether it's him or he gets everybody else. | ||
| See, that one I'm skeptical of. | ||
| Just the type of people that are going to want to go. | ||
| See, you're not talking about the engineering problem. | ||
| No. | ||
| I think it's possible, ultimately, you know, I mean, it's, look, can we put people in space? | ||
| For sure, we've definitely done it. | ||
| Can we put things, well, some people think space is fake. | ||
| Space is fake. | ||
| That's, do you ever Google hashtag space is fake? | ||
| It's wonderful. | ||
| It's a testament to the education system in this country. | ||
| Well, on that tiny little tangent, I've gotten, I joked about Flat Earth and Space is Fake a little bit, almost like saying that's an interesting way to being open-minded. | ||
| And then I realized that's not something to joke about. | ||
| That there is a community of people that take it extremely seriously. | ||
| And then some of them thank me for acknowledging that the possibility of Oh. | ||
| And then I had said, okay. | ||
| Bless their little hearts. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| This is not... | ||
| And their little brains. | ||
| But I appreciated their open-mindedness, but they should take introduction to physics. | ||
| MIT OpenCourseWare provides courses on physics. | ||
| They should... | ||
| Can a regular person just sign up for that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| It's open free. | ||
| So how does that work? | ||
| What do you have to do in order to take those courses? | ||
| It's all made available online. | ||
| Just go to MIT.org or is it.edu? | ||
| MIT OpenCourseWare is the website. | ||
| I mean, most people. | ||
| Oh, and it's all on YouTube now. | ||
| Oh, that's beautiful. | ||
| It's all lectures. | ||
| There are like millions of views, introductory lectures to physics, mathematics, statistics. | ||
| I have courses on there. | ||
| Aha, physics. | ||
| But in order to understand that the work has been done to recognize the fact that the Earth is round, what would you recommend right away? | ||
| Classical mechanics with exponential focus, experimental focus? | ||
| See, none of those things are going to... | ||
| No, no, classical mechanics is good. | ||
| But if you're a dingbat, you're not going to be able to absorb all that? | ||
| Look up the Wikipedia page for gravity, I think. | ||
| That's not going to help either. | ||
| They say gravity's never been proven. | ||
| No one understands gravity. | ||
| There's no one who actually understands what gravity is. | ||
| We just know the effects of it. | ||
| It's actually magnetism. | ||
| Yes, for sure. | ||
| So you have to undertake the effort of proving the Wikipedia article for gravity wrong. | ||
| But Wikipedia, bro, what a terrible example. | ||
| Wikipedia is sketchy. | ||
| It says I'm Brian Callen's brother. | ||
| It says I got celiac disease. | ||
| It says a bunch of shit that's not real. | ||
| How do you know you're not related? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| I'm pretty sure. | ||
| I mean, he might as well be my brother. | ||
| I don't know if it says it anymore, but whatever. | ||
| Someone put it in there again. | ||
| Fuck it. | ||
| Wikipedia is actually another distributed system that's incredibly surprising to me that it works. | ||
| Yeah, it is, right? | ||
| Because even though there is a lot of misinformation in it and there's a lot of, you know, falsehoods, There's a lot of really good information as well, particularly about historical figures and interesting stuff. | ||
| If you want to find facts on things, it's great research. | ||
| And on science and technical topics. | ||
| So not like nutrition science or things where there's a lot of debates. | ||
| Unlike physics and math and so on, it's really good. | ||
| It's really, really good. | ||
| So it's community supported by other physicists. | ||
| But moving back from Flat Earth, can we go back to why you think we're not going to be colonizing Mars? | ||
| Oh, I'm not saying ever. | ||
| I'm just saying the problem to me is the type of people that would want to do it. | ||
| Because they can't return. | ||
| That's the real issue with going to Mars is that you can't return. | ||
| You don't think there's a huge number of non-crazy explorers in this world? | ||
| That want to die on Mars? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I had a whole bit about it. | ||
| I really believe that it's the fringe of the fringe that would be willing to die on Mars. | ||
| No. | ||
| I'd be willing to die on Mars. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Stay here. | ||
| Come on, I like you. | ||
| Don't go over there. | ||
| No, it's... | ||
| What do you like about me? | ||
| It's all temporary. | ||
| What's all temporary? | ||
| Life? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Life. | |
| Life is temporary. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You're gonna die someday. | ||
| Sure, but if you decide to die on fucking Mars, I'm like, bro... | ||
| You'll be sending me emails from Mars. | ||
| Dude, I fucked up. | ||
| I won't be sending you emails. | ||
| This is the thing. | ||
| You're into the Native Americas. | ||
| You've been reading and following your work there. | ||
| I'm obsessed, man. | ||
| I've been obsessed about World War II and World War I, but you're converting me to both the warrior cultures and the suffering in that world. | ||
| The suffering is insane. | ||
| It's insane. | ||
| This book, Black Elk, Man, it details his life from... | ||
| He was a young boy during Custer's last stand. | ||
| He was there when Custer was killed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Who was he? | |
| Black Elk. | ||
| Yeah, Black Elk. | ||
| The guy. | ||
| What do you call that? | ||
| He's an Oglala Lakota medicine man. | ||
| Medicine man, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, and he just lived through the transition. | ||
| He lived through the transition of them battling with the U.S. soldiers to them being on the reservation. | ||
| Fucking insane poverty. | ||
| Insane. | ||
| Just the stories of people, the illnesses and the deaths, how many people's children died, malnourishment, starvation, abuse, and then just how much they hated where they were living and how they were living. | ||
| On the reservation. | ||
| Yeah, it's horrific, man. | ||
| It's horrific. | ||
| It's like... | ||
| It's hard to imagine. | ||
| It's hard to imagine when you're reading that this just happened. | ||
| He's talking about the really horrible parts at the end were in the early 1920s, 1930s. | ||
| It's hard to imagine. | ||
| It's hard to imagine that this tribe from 100 years prior, in the 1820s, We're living wild and free and we're, you know, we're living the same way they've lived for hundreds of years and had this incredible relationship with the land and these incredible religion that they practiced where they worship the earth and the animals and the sky and they had all these concepts | ||
| for the way you should live your life and how to Guarantee prosperity and how to guarantee success. | ||
| Man, they had a fascinating culture. | ||
| And it's gone. | ||
| It was wiped off the face of the map. | ||
| There was nothing like it anywhere else on Earth. | ||
| There was no culture anywhere on Earth that was like the Native American culture in the 1600s, 1700s, 1800s. | ||
| But in that period of time, they had this spectacular way of life. | ||
| And it was often very cruel and very ruthless, and they warred on each other. | ||
| This idea that Native Americans were living in peace and harmony with each other is nonsense. | ||
| Yeah, so I started, I was listening while doing Hills yesterday, kicked my ass. | ||
| I was listening to The Empire of the Summer Moon. | ||
| Fucking great book. | ||
| I commented on your Instagram, like saying something... | ||
| You know, basically admiring the purity of that way of life. | ||
| And I got so much shit by people saying, oh, you think rape and murder is pure and admirable? | ||
| So there is certainly an aspect to their way of life, which is sort of the warrior ethos, right? | ||
| The Comanches in particular. | ||
| They were the most ruthless, the most warlike. | ||
| That's all they did. | ||
| Basically like the Genghis Khan, the same kind of, the same horses, the innovators actually, war innovators. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And all they ate was meat as well. | ||
| I mean, all they ate was buffalo. | ||
| I mean, they essentially rode with the buffalo, killed buffalo, hunted buffalo, and then raided other tribes. | ||
| And then until the white man came, and then they started raiding the white man and killing the white man. | ||
| But they were, you know, at war with white people for hundreds of years. | ||
| I mean, they were the reason why the West was hard to settle. | ||
| I mean, the sneaky shit, I don't know if you've gotten to the point where they were giving people these big swaths of land in Oklahoma, and they essentially set them up to be killed by the Comanche. | ||
| They will say, hey, go out here. | ||
| We'll give you 1,600 acres. | ||
| It's all yours. | ||
| And they're like, oh, terrific. | ||
| Let's get our family and get in a wagon. | ||
| And no one let them know that the wildest motherfuckers that have ever lived on this continent were running that place. | ||
| And they would go there and just get slaughtered. | ||
| And one after another, families were wiped out that way and people were kidnapped. | ||
| And that lady that I have on the wall outside... | ||
| - Cynthia Ann Parker, who was adopted by the Comanches. | ||
| Her family was murdered in front of her when she was nine years old. | ||
| And she became the wife of a great Comanche chief. | ||
| And her son became the last Comanche chief, Quanah Parker. | ||
| It's crazy, man. - Hell of a story. | ||
| It's the craziest story. | ||
| There's all these tribes that some are probably more warlike, some are more peaceful. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That had a way of life here. | ||
| I don't want to romanticize too much. | ||
| I mean, most people don't believe me, but I really like that way of life, that closeness to nature. | ||
| You said texting from Mars or whatever. | ||
| I like, you know, I wouldn't choose it. | ||
| But I would be happier if I was forced into it. | ||
| It seems like a counterintuitive notion. | ||
| Because I'm so weak. | ||
| I'm so soft. | ||
| Even running hills yesterday, I realized how soft I am. | ||
| Well, you work too much. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No, behind a computer with my little fingers typing, right? | ||
| But you're also a black belt in jiu-jitsu. | ||
| You're also a martial artist. | ||
| Me against a Comanche warrior, good luck. | ||
| I think you'd fuck a Comanche up. | ||
| They don't know how to fight for real. | ||
| If they had a weapon, they'd kill you. | ||
| I think you're... | ||
| No, I... Listen, first of all, they were pretty small. | ||
| They weren't very big people. | ||
| Second of all, they didn't know jiu-jitsu. | ||
| The average person that doesn't know jiu-jitsu, you're going to choke the fuck out of them. | ||
| That'd be fun, actually, to sort of go into different warring cultures. | ||
| I'd go into Genghis Khan's times without weapons to see what kind of combat styles they had. | ||
| Just send Francis Ngannou. | ||
| He'd clean out the entire fucking crew. | ||
| I mean, just send Hoise Gracie. | ||
| Yeah, for sure. | ||
| Francis Ngannou in all generations will be screwed. | ||
| He's not as interesting. | ||
| Yeah, right. | ||
| It's just overwhelming. | ||
| But I think that if you had real jiu-jitsu skills... | ||
| You know, what you know now today, particularly because jiu-jitsu has evolved so much. | ||
| I mean, even the jiu-jitsu of 2020 is so radically different from the jiu-jitsu of, you know, 1990. It's radically different, like almost unrecognizable in a lot of ways. | ||
| Clearly, though, the basics are still the most important, and they're some of the greats of all time who just operate with the basics, whether it's Harder Gracie or Hicks and Gracie. | ||
| There's a lot of great, great jiu-jitsu players that just have those solid basics that are just honed to a razor-sharp edge. | ||
| Krohn, Krohn Gracie, he's got... | ||
| And when I say basic, it is a compliment. | ||
| I mean, arm bars, triangles, guillotines, renegade chokes, those types of things, but perfected to a level that is, they don't participate in a lot of the more modern, there's a lot of crafty, weird stuff that a lot of guys try today. | ||
| And some of the greats, even the greats that participate in jiu-jitsu matches today and are effective at it, don't really have that kind of style. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, but Krohn actually has some more creativity. | ||
| If you look at Roger Gracie, that's like... | ||
| Very basic. | ||
| I don't even know if he does footlocks. | ||
| Like, I think my favorite thing to do is on YouTube, just watch Roger Gracie matches. | ||
| Like, he looks like he's half asleep. | ||
| And he demolishes the greatest black belts in the world slowly by just, like in a half-asleep way, taking them down, passing their guard, going to mount and doing a choke. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's like the, against, I don't know, Buchacher, against... | ||
| Just the best. | ||
| Well, my instructor, John Jock Machado, same thing, man. | ||
| Just his style is just solid basics of jiu-jitsu. | ||
| And he has a saying that the more you know, the less you use, which is really interesting. | ||
| Well, you mentioned Comanche warriors and the meat. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Congrats on the carnivore diet. | ||
| Yeah, man. | ||
| Here's something crazy. | ||
| I got off that diet for this weekend, because I did the month, and then once Saturday came around, I ate Italian food, I had Girl Scout cookies, pasta, and then yesterday I went to Disneyland. | ||
| So yesterday I went way, way off the diet and I had ice cream and I ate all kinds of shitty food and I was getting back pains and knee pains and all these kind of weird pains that went away when I was on the diet. | ||
| Now, this is not a testament against plant-based diets, because I was eating shit, shitty food, and pasta, which is a lot of bread. | ||
| White pasta. | ||
| Yeah, spaghetti. | ||
| That stuff causes inflammation. | ||
| It just does. | ||
| You know, it just does. | ||
| Sugar causes inflammation. | ||
| But it's interesting to have this great month where basically two weeks in after the diarrhea died off, I had two solid weeks of no aches and pains and feeling great. | ||
| I was like, this is wild. | ||
| This is really wild. | ||
| I feel amazing. | ||
| And then two days of eating shit and like my back hurts right now. | ||
| I'm sitting here. | ||
| My back is hurting. | ||
| My knee was hurting yesterday. | ||
| All those weird aches come right back. | ||
| Well, the nice thing about the Joe Rogan effect is that you're trying this diet and you're talking about keto a lot, that's become more socially acceptable to do. | ||
| Because I've been eating keto or low carb for many years and doing fasting, like 24, 48 hour fasts. | ||
| And I always kind of keep it more in the low down. | ||
| But even... | ||
| This time, I like traveling. | ||
| What I like to do when traveling is I'm trying to be, given my current situation, not spend much money. | ||
| One of the best ways to go, either carnivore or keto, is to go to McDonald's and just order beef patties. | ||
| They'll sell you just beef patties at McDonald's? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Just beef patties. | |
| $1.50. | ||
| Really? | ||
| For a patty, for a quarter pound, yeah. | ||
| So you can, you know, like, it's like usually what I eat is about two pounds of meat a day. | ||
| And that's, what is it? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| That's like 15 bucks. | ||
| So you've been doing this carnivore thing too? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| How long have you been doing it for? | ||
| Off and on. | ||
| For the carnivore, I've done since the first time either your podcast or Jordan Peterson or that kind of thing I dived into. | ||
| But before then, I've been doing keto. | ||
| My favorite meal is just meat and I know some people hate cauliflower, but cauliflower or green beans. | ||
| Why do you worry if people hate cauliflower? | ||
| Why'd you have to make that distinction? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| Some people hate cauliflower. | ||
| Who's out there hating cauliflower? | ||
| Who the fuck are those people? | ||
| That's a weird thing to hate. | ||
| I just had a bunch of people say cauliflower sucks recently, so yeah, you're right. | ||
| If you cook it right, it doesn't suck. | ||
| You know what's good? | ||
| Buffalo cauliflower, like buffalo wings, buffalo sauce, cauliflower, fucking delicious. | ||
| What's that? | ||
| But that's a sauce. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No, sauce is like you're giving in to your weakness. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's spices. | ||
| And you're giving away... | ||
| No, see, like... | ||
| Cauliflower? | ||
| A blander taste, to me, is better because you get to appreciate the fundamentals of the food. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| So, I don't know. | ||
| I just enjoy it. | ||
| You do salt meat? | ||
| Salt, yeah. | ||
| Oh, how do you do that when you can just appreciate the fundamentals of the meat? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Good point, yeah. | ||
| You don't like hot sauce? | ||
| I'm playing checkers, you're playing chess. | ||
| Do you like hot sauce? | ||
| I put hot sauce on everything. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I do. | ||
| But I stay away from it. | ||
| Like, I try to... | ||
| Listen, food to me right now in my life is a source of energy, not a source of pleasure. | ||
| But it can be both. | ||
| Unfortunately, I'm not addicted to drugs. | ||
| I'm not addicted to many things. | ||
| But with food, my mind, I don't know how to moderate. | ||
| Really? | ||
| So, like, anything pleasurable is a problem for me in terms of food. | ||
| Like cookies. | ||
| You put two cookies in front of me. | ||
| I don't know how to eat just one of them. | ||
| My brain is terrible at it. | ||
| This is Girl Scout cookie season, son. | ||
| They changed the name of Samoas. | ||
| Those are my favorite. | ||
| And now they have a new name. | ||
| I think they call them Tagalongs or something like that. | ||
| They've been that name for a while, I think. | ||
| Really? | ||
|
unidentified
|
When did they change? | |
| Those are separate things, though, I think. | ||
| Am I talking about the wrong thing? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Maybe. | |
| The ones that are like, they're chocolate on the bottom. | ||
| Dude, they're so good. | ||
| Samoas have that coconut in them. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That doesn't sound like the words of a man who's going to stick to the carnivore diet. | ||
| Oh, I'm going to stick. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I'll have cheat days. | ||
| Or cheat meals, I should say. | ||
| Tagalong's the peanut butter. | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
| Those are good. | ||
| Those are fucking good. | ||
| What are the Samoas now? | ||
| What do they call them now? | ||
| But they just changed. | ||
| They just changed to something new. | ||
| I've never eaten a Girl Scout cookie. | ||
| Ever? | ||
| No. | ||
| What are you, a robot? | ||
| I'm a Russian, too. | ||
| Basically a robot. | ||
| Basically. | ||
| I eat six of those, and I was feeling like shit. | ||
| I'm like, oh. | ||
| What? | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| This is just a very quick Caramel Delight. | ||
| Is that what it's called now? | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| Just someone who might have owned another company or whoever they were paying to make them. | ||
| I was wondering if it was a racial issue. | ||
| That's what the question was, was someone saying, because it was racist, this is an odd question. | ||
| The answer is no, the name of the cookies are owned by the two different companies who make them. | ||
| So they outsource it and they just, you know... | ||
| They change the name. | ||
| Racial issue. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Because Samoa. | ||
| Like someone might be like sensitive to having a cookie named after an island. | ||
| And people are like, hey fuckface, that's our island, not your cookie. | ||
| You know? | ||
| See, those cookies don't even sound good to me anymore. | ||
| What about American cheese? | ||
| Is that okay? | ||
| American cheese? | ||
| No, not okay. | ||
| Wait, American? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I stay with a Russian dvorog. | |
| It's a cottage cheese. | ||
| Well, there's Swiss cheese, there's American cheese, and that's it, right? | ||
| Is there any other countries that are named specifically... | ||
| The cheese named after the country? | ||
| I bet you it's not even just like french fries. | ||
| I bet you American cheese is not even American. | ||
| Do you remember when there was freedom fries for a while? | ||
| People were trying to call fries freedom fries, like post 9-11 because they were mad that France didn't want us going over to Iraq. | ||
| Yeah, and then people who hate freedom banned it. | ||
| Yeah, freedom fries. | ||
| Oh, that's so dumb. | ||
| The thing I really like, actually, I think that's the thing that people don't often talk about, is the focus. | ||
| My life, I think a lot of people do this, is being able to focus for long periods of time. | ||
| And that's why I stuck with keto, or fasting especially. | ||
| Yes, the focus is pretty tremendous. | ||
| Well, that's what I really got with the carnivore diet. | ||
| The amount of my flatness of energy, the lack of dips and valleys, peaks and valleys, it's amazing. | ||
| Yeah, it's great. | ||
| And the fasting helps me too. | ||
| Like Jack Dorsey does only what's called OMAD one meal a day. | ||
| You could just say one meal a day. | ||
| This OMAD stuff. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| I'm a hip Reddit lingo guy. | ||
| I think on Reddit it's OMAD. Oh, okay. | ||
| No, I don't know. | ||
| One meal a day. | ||
| But, you know, a 24-hour fast. | ||
| That's a careful weapon you have to play with, at least for me. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| It helps your mind really focus. | ||
| I can sit sometimes for five, six hours a day, like programming, really thinking, and lose track of time, and really focus. | ||
| But when you interact with other human beings, You're kind of a little bit of an asshole. | ||
| Like, I am, sorry. | ||
| I mean, when I am... | ||
| In a way where... | ||
| It's funny, but if there's something about a person that's full of crap, you are more likely to point that out. | ||
| When you're on keto or carnivore? | ||
| No, it's irrespective of diet. | ||
| Keto, carnivore, whatever, is the fasting. | ||
| Oh, the fasting. | ||
| The fasting. | ||
| Really? | ||
| So is it more irritable? | ||
| Is that what it is? | ||
| I think it's irritable, but you also see things more clearly. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I'll talk to my parents or something like that. | ||
| When I'm more well-fed, I'll be like, just enjoy having fun with them. | ||
| And if I'm fasted, I'll be like... | ||
| Why are you always judging me kind of thing, right? | ||
| Like, you realize the thing, the aspects of the interaction, which are problematic, and you want to sort of highlight them. | ||
| I'm just sort of noticing it, which is problematic when you're in a working environment, especially sort of deliberating, discussing with other engineers how to solve a problem. | ||
| I'm more likely, especially, you know, lead a team to say that somebody is a little bit full of shit. | ||
| When I'm fasting, as opposed to being a little bit more kind and eloquent about expressing why they're full of shit. | ||
| I found myself feeling more aggressive and more inclined to use recreational insults. | ||
| When fasting or carnivore? | ||
| Carnivore. | ||
| What's a recreational insult? | ||
| Like, come on, fuckface. | ||
| Fuckface. | ||
| You know, like saying something like that to someone or fill in the blank with whatever other words you would like to use. | ||
| That sounds like an academic paper. | ||
| The rate of fuckface goes up. | ||
| Well, just in casual conversation, I'd find myself using fun insults more often. | ||
| But fun with the intent of kindness behind? | ||
| No. | ||
| I mean, having fun. | ||
| Even talking about people who aren't there. | ||
| Just having fun. | ||
| But... | ||
| That's also a function of being a comedian. | ||
| We do that to each other really bad. | ||
| Like, I had a birthday. | ||
| My friends made me a cake that said, Happy Birthday, faggot. | ||
| That kind of shit is just so a part of the culture of comedians. | ||
| Like, everybody calls everybody bitch. | ||
| Everybody, you know, it's just fun. | ||
| Yeah, which is awesome because this comedian culture is now at full-on war with the cancel culture. | ||
| And it's like two armies of people who don't give a damn and people who give way too much of a damn. | ||
| Well, I have mixed feelings about all that stuff. | ||
| But I ultimately feel like the direction it's moving in, the reason why it's happening is for good. | ||
| I think there's a lot of people that are complaining about things and they're trying to cancel people and all that stuff. | ||
| And it's, you know, ultimately, some of it's misguided. | ||
| But I think the ideas behind it, like the primary push, like the gravity behind it, is people want less racism, less discrimination, less of a lot of things. | ||
| But then along the way you have Hypocritical human behavior that gets involved in this and you have people that are, you know, deeply flawed themselves but pointing out minor flaws in other people and then they get exposed and they feel horrible. | ||
| For every person who participates in this cancel culture, it's like… The wave is coming back at you. | ||
| I mean, it comes in and it comes out. | ||
| And if you go too far out on that fucking pier, it's gonna get you. | ||
| And this is part of it that we're learning. | ||
| And I think... | ||
| What people are today, like, if you look at humanity from, like, the 1930s, it was hard, man. | ||
| People lived in a hard way. | ||
| It was ruthless. | ||
| If you watch films from the 1900s, early 1900s, First of all, the domestic violence was so normal. | ||
| Like heroes in movies in the 50s and 60s just smacked women in the face. | ||
| Heroes. | ||
| Smacked their wives. | ||
| Hit their kids. | ||
| It was a different world. | ||
| And people will look probably at our time today and say, you know, people openly ate meat, meaning not, or like, I could see a few... | ||
| Not engineered meat. | ||
| Not engineered meat, right? | ||
| Sort of ate meat from factory farms. | ||
| As opposed to recreationally hunting it themselves and eating what they've hunted or engineered meat, lab meat. | ||
| Yeah, or you can get ethically raised food. | ||
| I mean, there are a lot of ranchers. | ||
| Like, it's one of the things that ButcherBox does very well, is they make sure that they have relationships with ranchers who have a commitment to ethically raised animals and ethically killed animals. | ||
| And what that means is, you know, they don't participate in anything that has anything to do with factory farming, no antibiotics, no added hormones ever. | ||
| And that is possible. | ||
| I mean, people have been eating animals from the beginning of time, literally. | ||
| 97% of the world eats animals. | ||
| And this idea that the only way to do it is through factory farming, I don't think that's correct. | ||
| The idea is, if you eat meat, you participate in factory farming, and that's horrific. | ||
| I don't think that's true. | ||
| But I do think it is true when it comes to fast food for the most part. | ||
| And that's unfortunate. | ||
| And I think if they could, I mean, we need more transparency for sure when it comes to that stuff. | ||
| And that's one of the reasons why those ag gag laws, agricultural gag laws where people, there's laws that prevent people from working in these factory farming situations to expose. | ||
| There's laws that prohibit them from exposing the horrors of these environments. | ||
| That's a real problem. | ||
| That's a real issue that's clearly designed to protect that industry and allow them to commit these crimes. | ||
| Yeah, it's one of the things. | ||
| I'm conscious of my own hypocrisy in this. | ||
| I think deeply, unfortunately, love meat. | ||
| And I'm aware of how unethical factory farming is. | ||
| And so those two things I have to sit with and be conscious of. | ||
| That's a question. | ||
| When did that happen? | ||
| When did the factory farming thing happen? | ||
| You go back to the 1930s, there was no factory farming. | ||
| It was just farming. | ||
| Are you sure? | ||
| I think it was probably incremental. | ||
| Are you sure it wasn't in the 1930s, there wasn't already some mass... | ||
| So what is factory farming? | ||
| It's a scale, but also sort of the suffering. | ||
| There's a certain line you start to cross where it just feels... | ||
| I mean, it's unclear at which point it really becomes torture versus... | ||
| Agriculture. | ||
| Agriculture. | ||
| That's an interesting line. | ||
| And we kind of... | ||
| Yeah, there's probably a good answer for that. | ||
| The real problem is at scale. | ||
| It's probably fast food. | ||
| The birth of fast food is really probably where it exploded. | ||
| Where's McDonald's? | ||
| McDonald's probably started 100 years ago. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| I don't know. | ||
| I'm not sure when it started. | ||
| At scale, you know, the feeding of massive amounts of people that aren't growing anything. | ||
| That's the real issue. | ||
| The real issue is whether you're in New York City or Shanghai or... | ||
| Los Angeles, large, gigantic metropolitan areas that aren't growing anything. | ||
| They got to get a lot of food to those people. | ||
| If you have 20 million people like in Los Angeles, 20 million people eat meat. | ||
| That's a lot of meat. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You gotta feed them. | ||
| You gotta feed them. | ||
| Oh, there's a sign that steps up. | ||
| I think lab engineer meat is kind of interesting. | ||
| Yeah, it is interesting. | ||
| How much have you paid attention to it? | ||
| Not much. | ||
| I'm waiting. | ||
| This is the horrible thing. | ||
| I'm very cognizant of it that I kind of don't allow my brain to think much about this whole space because I love meat and I'm trying to save money. | ||
| I get it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So you eat those McDonald's quarter pounder pounders. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The life of a scientist, right? | |
| The scientists, and especially now, have taken a leap. | ||
| That's a difficult leap. | ||
| So I'm still affiliated with MIT, but I decided to leave my full-time position. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why? | |
| Do a startup. | ||
| So I want to try to build... | ||
| Trying to build the kind of thing I dreamed about. | ||
| We talked about the movie Her. | ||
| I've been working. | ||
| That's been 80-90% of my day. | ||
| In fact, me doing the podcast is trying to, is not trying, is already successful at giving me enough money for food and shelter. | ||
| Tell people the name of the podcast so they can... | ||
| Artificial Intelligence Podcast. | ||
| Lex Friedman. | ||
| Lex Friedman. | ||
| Listen to, what is it, Elon Musk, Eric Weinstein's on there. | ||
| I talk with Garry Kasparov, Chomsky, Sean Carroll. | ||
| Sean Carroll is brilliant. | ||
| He is brilliant. | ||
| What is it like talking to Chomsky? | ||
|
unidentified
|
He talks slow. | |
| Well, I talk... | ||
| Most people say my voice is very boring, and I talk slowly. | ||
| To those people, I say, go fuck yourself, Chomsky. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| I'm trying to actually... | ||
| It's very difficult to express thoughts, like Sam Harris struggles with this too, to express thoughts with the kind of humor and eloquence that they are in your brain, like to convert them. | ||
| As a comedian, you're essentially a storyteller. | ||
| So you probably don't even know how you did it. | ||
| You're like Haja Gracie. | ||
| You've probably developed this art of storytelling, of being able to laugh and make other people laugh, of bouncing back and forth. | ||
| To me, most of my life has been spent behind a book or computer, thinking interesting thoughts, but not connecting with other people and doing that dance of conversation. | ||
| So learning that dance... | ||
| While also thinking is really tough. | ||
| So Wachomsky was like a pleasure because we can both be robots. | ||
| But I think he's like 92 years old. | ||
| Is he really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And the thing I loved about him. | ||
| So, you know, there's all that political stuff that I don't pay attention to. | ||
| I mean, he's a major sort of activist. | ||
| But he's also a linguist that thinks that language is at the core of everything, of cognition. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So it's at the bottom. | ||
| Everything starts with language. | ||
| Cognition, reasoning, perception, all of that is things built on top of language. | ||
| So it's a brilliant sort of seminal research. | ||
| But at 92 years old, he still looked in my eyes and really listened and really thought and really sharp ideas came out. | ||
| You do the same thing. | ||
| People ask me, like, meet Joe Rogan. | ||
| You don't take yourself too seriously. | ||
| Even with your celebrity, with the popularity of the podcast, that's a huge thing. | ||
| And with Chomsky, what was really surprising to me is while he's pretty stubborn on his ideas and so on, people criticize him, he's so stubborn in his ways, he didn't take himself too seriously. | ||
| I sat there, I'm just some kid talking to him. | ||
| He really listened. | ||
| The stupid questions, the interesting questions, he really listened. | ||
| At 92 years old, to have that kind of curiosity, I was like, I'm so happy when I see that kind of thing. | ||
| Yeah, that's a wonderful example of a career academic who's still just concentrating on ideas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ideas. | |
| Yeah, and still thinking, always. | ||
| You know, because academics can be like really any other... | ||
| Endeavor, any other discipline, you can get lazy, right? | ||
| You see that in almost every walk of life. | ||
| There's certain people that rest on their laurels. | ||
| And especially when you become popular, you get really good at explaining. | ||
| So you get like, you do these talks, you do these lectures, you start saying the same thing over and over, and you forget to listen. | ||
| Because of this podcast, the Artificial Intelligence podcast, but also Joe Rogan, two different groups of fans whom I both love, people come up to me and start a conversation, and I love it, just listening to them. | ||
| And I hope I never lose that. | ||
| I'm younger than Chomsky, but I hope you stay that way. | ||
| It's nice if you have the time. | ||
| It's a problem if you're in the rush and someone wants to talk to you about something very deep. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I've had those moments where someone says, hey man, I've got to ask you. | ||
| And then I'm like, dude, this is a long conversation. | ||
| I can't do this right now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm in a rush. | |
| That's the burden. | ||
| That's your burden, actually. | ||
| I'm in a beautiful place, which I don't think will last too long, which is I'm not sufficiently famous. | ||
| Those things don't happen often enough to where I can have that conversation. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You have the luxury. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Although let me say, I got to hang out with Brian Callen, who I've been a huge fan of on New Year's Eve. | ||
| I got to watch the old man dance. | ||
| And this funny thing happened. | ||
| He's a celebrity. | ||
| So we're hanging out and two times somebody came up to me and Brian. | ||
| And they said, wow, it's Lex Friedman. | ||
| It's so good to me. | ||
| And then they completely ignored Brian. | ||
| That must have killed him. | ||
| He must have been like, motherfucker. | ||
| It made me so proud. | ||
| It's because it's in Boston, and I think it's like nerds and whatever. | ||
| Sure, yeah. | ||
| That is funny, though. | ||
| That's hilarious. | ||
| He's one of my... | ||
| I mean, it was incredible. | ||
| I didn't know you guys were friends until we all came together in the podcast and so on. | ||
| I was a huge fan of his... | ||
| He's one of my oldest friends. | ||
| We met on MADtv. | ||
| I was a host one week. | ||
| And he was one of the stars of the show. | ||
| He's an awesome guy, man. | ||
| Like a really underappreciated person. | ||
| And he's a guy that... | ||
| And because he gets into that, you know, he's just always into that world. | ||
| He didn't put the same amount of time into doing his podcast, his personal podcast, as I think he should have. | ||
| Because he's great at it. | ||
| You know, he was one of the first people that I knew that interviewed Jordan Peterson. | ||
| And he's... | ||
| I didn't know that. | ||
| He's had a bunch of brilliant people on his podcast. | ||
| He's had a bunch of really interesting intellectuals and scientists. | ||
| I think it's mixed mental arts or something like that. | ||
| Yeah, and he's doing it with Hunter, his friend, but he stopped doing it with him. | ||
| He's an unusual guy, Brian Kalanis, because he's silly, but he's also brilliant. | ||
| Yeah, you can see that. | ||
| Eric Weinstein has the same quality, obviously, from different worlds. | ||
| The silliness. | ||
| You can see through the silliness that there's an intelligent, first of all, a good human being there, but also an intelligent human being. | ||
| But at the same time, he's like the butt of every joke. | ||
| I appreciate that so much. | ||
| I love silly people. | ||
| Silly people are so much more fun. | ||
| The people that are easily offended and easily upset, like, ugh, he's so exhausting. | ||
| Silly people are the best. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I actually, so I played your theme song on guitar, and Brian Callen was researching it, like, how do you play it? | ||
| And it was a Jerry theme song, and there's a Brian Callen singing video of Joe Rogan's Shoulders for Days. | ||
| Yeah, some silly song he made out. | ||
| So I'm working on a deal I'm going to try to figure out, because I can play guitar and play the theme song I put up online. | ||
| You guys going to work together and make an album? | ||
| No, we're going to make an out, like a Joe Rogan theme is going to come up with some words on there. | ||
| What's the notes? | ||
| You got pages and pages of notes in front of you. | ||
| Is there stuff that you really wanted to discuss? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well, we haven't talked about AI at all, but let me, at least Boston Dynamics would be interesting to talk about. | ||
| There was a fake video that I sent Jamie today. | ||
| These motherfuckers, they keep getting me. | ||
| There's a new fake video. | ||
| I think that was the same one. | ||
| I think someone just took another clip from it. | ||
| Oh, is it? | ||
| Those guys have been making VFX videos on YouTube for 10 plus years. | ||
| They're really good at it. | ||
| It's so good. | ||
| For people who don't know, there's a YouTube channel where people... | ||
| I think it's a single YouTube channel that does visual effects, like fake humanoid or robot dog robots that kind of resemble something like Boston Dynamics. | ||
| They do some crazy stuff with guns. | ||
| Yeah, this one they gave the robot a gun. | ||
| Pull it up, Jamie. | ||
| What is the gentleman? | ||
| Corridor Digital on YouTube is the guys that make it. | ||
| Corridor Crew is the YouTube channel, I think. | ||
| Fucking incredible that it's not real. | ||
| It looks so real. | ||
| And so the robot, they kick it, they hit it with a hockey helmet, or a hockey stick, rather. | ||
| It's their long video they made a while ago. | ||
| They might have made a new one, which was one out in the desert, but I think I had seen it before. | ||
| See, they trick you with the Boston Dynamics. | ||
| It's Boss Town. | ||
| Boss Town Dynamics. | ||
| It looks so realistic. | ||
| But here's the thing. | ||
| We're not that far off from this thing. | ||
| No, okay, okay, okay. | ||
| Let's walk it back. | ||
| Let's walk it back. | ||
| It's not realistic. | ||
| In what way? | ||
| It looks human realistic. | ||
| So you can tell it's a human. | ||
| Like a robotics person can tell it's a human. | ||
| Because it's really difficult to do that kind of motion, that kind of movement. | ||
| Oh, like when it's getting shot? | ||
| Well, not the getting shot. | ||
| So there's a lot of movement it does for the purpose of comedy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like, it actually is on purpose trying to look like a human for the comedic internet effect, like a human that's getting pissed off and so on. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Those qualities are like another order of magnitude. | ||
| Like this here, where it's like, give me that. | ||
| Yeah, come on, give me that, give me that. | ||
| Aw, come on. | ||
| So for a term... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh! | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Doing Bruce Lee type of movements. | ||
| Some of those are just comedic. | ||
| You don't need Terminator type robot. | ||
| Right, but they do have legitimate robots that can do backflips now. | ||
| So it's really backflips, parkour. | ||
| This one's real. | ||
| This is all real. | ||
| It's manipulation. | ||
| So all of these robots, depending on what we're talking about here, but those are remote controlled. | ||
| And these are single demonstrations that they've perfected. | ||
| So it's really important to distinguish between the body of the robot and the brain of the robot. | ||
| So these bodies, unlike anything else, unlike a Roomba, unlike a drone, who can also be very threatening, These bodies somehow... | ||
| We anthropomorphize them and they terrify us. | ||
| I don't know what it is. | ||
| I met Spot Mini in person. | ||
| That was one of the most transformative moments in my life. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Because I know how dumb it is, but the experience of it like... | ||
| It's not even a head. | ||
| It's supposed to be a hand, but it looks like a head. | ||
| And it, like, looking up at me with that hand, I felt like I was like... | ||
| It was magic. | ||
| It was like a... | ||
| It was like Frankenstein coming to life. | ||
| It was this moment of creation. | ||
| And what I realized is my own brain sort of anthropomorphizing. | ||
| The same way you're, like, looking at these robots and you're thinking, these things are terrifying... | ||
| In 10, 20 years, where are we going to be? | ||
| That's our brain playing tricks on us. | ||
| Because the key thing that's a threat to humanity or an exciting possibility for humanity is the intelligence of the robots, the brains, the mind. | ||
| And these robots have very, very little intelligence. | ||
| So in terms of being able to perceive and understand the world, very importantly, very importantly, to learn about the world. | ||
| From scratch. | ||
| So the terrifying thing is, you talked often like with this philosophical kind of notion that Sam Harris talks about, sort of exponential improvement, be able to become human level intelligence, superhuman level intelligence, in a matter of days become more intelligent than that. | ||
| That's all learning process. | ||
| That's being able to learn. | ||
| That's the key aspect. | ||
| We're in the very early days of that. | ||
| There's an idea of, you know, Big Bang is a funny word for one of the most fundamental ideas in the nature of our universe. | ||
| Same way, self-play is a term for, I think, one of the most important powerful ideas in artificial intelligence that people are currently working on. | ||
| So self-play, I don't know if you're familiar with a company called DeepMind and OpenAI, so Google DeepMind, and a game. | ||
| I know you're a first-person shooter guy, but StarCraft and Dota 2. So last year, these are, what do you call them, real-time strategy, I guess, in people who won millions of dollars in e-sport competitions. | ||
| And so OpenAI separately had OpenAI 5, which took on Dota 2. Dota 2 is the computer game based on Warcraft 3. That's the most popular esport game. | ||
| And then DeepMind took on StarCraft with their AlphaStar system. | ||
| And the key amazing thing is they're similar to AlphaGo and AlphaZero that learn to play Go. | ||
| It's the mechanism of self-play. | ||
| That's the exciting mechanism that I think if you can figure out how to have an impact on more serious problems than games would be transformative. | ||
| Okay, what is it? | ||
| It's learning from scratch in a competitive environment. | ||
| Thinking of you have two white belts training against each other and trying to figure out how to beat each other without ever having black belt supervision and structures and slowly getting better that way, inventing new moves that way. | ||
| Eventually, they get better and better by that competitive process. | ||
| that's the machine playing itself without human supervision. | ||
| The interesting thing is there's a lot of cases in which if you set up the competitive environment well enough for those two white belts, they'll learn to be black belts. | ||
| They'll learn to be not only black belts, they'll learn to be better than – like exactly the kind of evolution that's happening in MMA right now, if you put that in a digital space and speed it up a million-fold, it'll continue to improve. | ||
| Let me pause you here because this is one of the things that I think probably translates to AI as it does to Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| You need more than one opponent. | ||
| Like you can't have one input. | ||
| One person training with one person specifically and singularly, you're not going to develop the type of game that you need to become a real black belt in Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| A hundred percent. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So that's part of the brilliance of this mechanism. | ||
| So imagine you didn't just have white belts, you had an opportunity to generate a new random white belt. | ||
| Like a fat, big one, a little one, and all kinds of different. | ||
| One that loves weed named Eddie Bravo. | ||
| A passive one. | ||
| A passive one. | ||
| And let them play. | ||
| What you find is Jiu-Jitsu might be simpler than the general problem of different kinds of StarCrafts and so on. | ||
| But there is sets of strategies in this giant space. | ||
| There are these complex hierarchical strategies, like high-level strategies and then specifics of different moves that emerge, some of which you didn't even realize existed. | ||
| And that requires that you start with the huge amounts of random initial states, like the fat person, the skinny person, the aggressive person, and so on. | ||
| And then you also keep injecting randomness in the system, so you discover new ideas. | ||
| So even when you reach purple belt, you don't continue with those same people. | ||
| You start your own school. | ||
| You start expanding to totally random new ideas and expanding in this way. | ||
| And what you find out is there's totally surprising to human beings, like in the game of chess or in the game of Go, in the game of Starcraft. | ||
| This self-play mechanism can do what sort of AI people have dreamed of, which is be creative. | ||
| Create totally new behaviors, totally new strategies that are surprising to human experts. | ||
| That's why Go was so astounding to them, right? | ||
| Because it's such a complex game. | ||
| Such a hard game. | ||
| And it's able to... | ||
| Well, the first astounding thing is it's able to beat the world champion. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The second astounding thing about both chess and Go is it's able to create... | ||
| Totally new ideas. | ||
| I'm not good enough at chess or go to understand the newness of them, but grandmasters talk about the way Alpha Zero plays chess, and they say there's a lot of brilliant, interesting ideas there. | ||
| Very counterintuitive ideas. | ||
| And that's such a... | ||
| And that's all. | ||
| The first breakthroughs didn't have as much self-play. | ||
| They were trained on human experts. | ||
| But AlphaZero and AlphaStar and OpenAI5, these systems are all fundamentally self-play, meaning no human supervision, starting from scratch. | ||
| So no black belt instructor. | ||
| And that means... | ||
| So learning from scratch, that's exceptionally powerful. | ||
| That's a process from zero, you can get to superhuman level intelligence in a particular task in a matter of days. | ||
| That's super powerful, super exciting, super terrifying if that's kind of what you think about. | ||
| The challenge is we don't know how to do that in the physical space, in the space of robots. | ||
| There's something fundamentally different about being able to perceive, to understand this environment, to do common sense reasoning. | ||
| The thing we really take for granted is our ability to reason about the physics of the world, about the fact that things weigh things, that you can stack things on top of each other, the fact that some things are hard, some things are soft, some things are painful when you touch them. | ||
| All that like there seems to be a giant Wikipedia inside our brain of like common sense dumb logic that's very tough to build up. | ||
| That's, yeah, it seems to be an exceptionally difficult learning problem that Boston Dynamics will have to solve in order to achieve even the same kind of physical movement behavior that we saw in those videos. | ||
| And then on top of that, to have the ethical behavior, not the ethical, sort of the objective, the complex strategies involved in first following orders and then getting frustrated and then shooting everybody. | ||
| That's an exceptionally difficult thing to arrive at because ultimately these systems operate on a set of objectives. | ||
| And what a lot of people that think about artificial general intelligence say, the objectives we need to inject in these systems that they're trained on need to have one uncertainty. | ||
| So they should always doubt themselves. | ||
| Just like if you want to be a good blackball you should always be sort of Always open-minded. | ||
| Sort of relax. | ||
| Always learn techniques. | ||
| It's okay to get submitted. | ||
| So always have a degree of uncertainty about your world view. | ||
| The kind of thing we criticized Twitter outrage mobs for not having. | ||
| So having uncertainty. | ||
| And the other thing is always have a place where there should be human supervision. | ||
| And I think we have good mechanisms for that in place. | ||
| I'm very optimistic about where these kinds of learning systems... | ||
| The exciting thing is, Boston Dynamics is not opening up their platform. | ||
| So they're working with a few people. | ||
| I'm trying to make time to make it happen. | ||
| To work with them to build stuff on top of the platform. | ||
| Sorry, I'm referring to Spot Mini as a platform. | ||
| So this robot is this dumb... | ||
| It's like a Roomba. | ||
| It's a dumb mechanistic thing that can move for you. | ||
| But you can add a brain on top of it. | ||
| So you can make it learn. | ||
| You can make it see the world and so on. | ||
| That's all extra. | ||
| That's not what Boston Dynamics offers. | ||
| So they want to work with people like me to add that kind of capability. | ||
| And that's exciting because... | ||
| Now you can have hundreds of people start to add interesting learning capabilities. | ||
| So I may have to retract my words about how far away we are with the capabilities of these robots once you now open up to the internet. | ||
| So I was speaking to Boston Dynamics. | ||
| I think they're solving the really hard robotics problem. | ||
| But once you open it up to the huge world of researchers that are doing machine learning and doing computer vision and doing AI research, the kind of capabilities they might add to these robots might surprise us. | ||
| That's where people are concerned, right? | ||
| The big leaps. | ||
| The big leaps. | ||
| And then sort of just not being aware of the consequences of these big leaps. | ||
| And once you let the genie out of the bottle, you can never put it back. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The genie and the self-play mechanism where you grow from zero to becoming world-class chess player. | ||
| That's the genie being out of the bottle. | ||
| Did you see Black Mirror? | ||
| Yeah, Black Mirror. | ||
| You know that episode, Heavy Metal? | ||
| Heavy Metal. | ||
| Very difficult to pull that off. | ||
| For now. | ||
| For now. | ||
| And you had a conversation with Nick Bostrom, who I'm also talking with on the podcast. | ||
| One of the things he mentioned is... | ||
| So I don't think he thinks about this stuff a lot. | ||
| I do about military applications. | ||
| I talk to folks. | ||
| That's one of the things people don't, just like with me, they kind of put to the side they don't want to think about military applications. | ||
| I would be more worried about drones than I would be about robot dogs. | ||
| Because the kind of stuff we saw in the Black Mirror episode is really difficult to pull off, to make a robot learn. | ||
| Well, drones are kind of more impressive, right? | ||
| Because they hover, they can move through 3D space, they have Hellfire missiles attached to them. | ||
| I mean, there's a lot of crazy shit that they can absolutely do right now with drones. | ||
| And you're talking about large-scale drones, but you can think of small-scale drones. | ||
| And I think there's also a Black Mirror episode with drones where they take over. | ||
| I haven't seen that one. | ||
| I think there's drones everywhere and they're kind of doing your basic friendly government surveillance, mass surveillance kind of thing. | ||
| I think they sell in the episode that it's for a good cause. | ||
| Spoiler alert, but I think they start killing everybody. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Wasn't there, there has been research done on making artificial insects that have like little cameras inside of them that look like a dragonfly or some sort of bug and they fly around and they can film things. | ||
| And the thing that terrifies a lot of people is going more microscopic than that, more like robots inside the body that help you cure diseases and so on, certain things, even at the nanoscale. | ||
| So basically creating viruses. | ||
| Creating new viruses. | ||
| Little tiny ones. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And if they learn, they can be pretty dumb. | ||
| But on a mass scale, you don't have to be intelligent to destroy all of human civilization. | ||
| So... | ||
| So the real question about this artificial intelligence stuff that everybody seems to – the ultimate end of the line, what Sam Harris is terrified of, is it becoming sentient and it making its own decisions and deciding that we don't need people? | ||
| That's what everybody's really scared of, right? | ||
| I'm not sure if everybody's scared of it. | ||
| Yeah, they might be. | ||
| I think that's a story that's the most compelling, the sexiest story that the philosopher side of a Sam Harris is very attracted to. | ||
| I am also interested in that story, but I think achieving sentience, I think that requires also creating consciousness. | ||
| I think that requires creating the kind of intelligence and cognition and reasoning abilities That's really, really difficult. | ||
| I think we'll create dangerous software-based systems before then. | ||
| They'll be a huge threat. | ||
| I think we already have them. | ||
| The YouTube algorithm, the recommender systems of Twitter and Facebook and YouTube, from everything I know, having talked to those folks, having worked on it, The challenging aspect there is they have the power to control minds, what the mass population thinks. | ||
| And YouTube itself and Twitter itself don't have direct ability to control the algorithm exactly. | ||
| One, they don't have a way to understand the algorithm. | ||
| And two, they don't have a way to control it. | ||
| Because... | ||
| But what I mean by control is, control it in a way that leads to, in aggregate, a better civilization. | ||
| Meaning like, sort of the Steven Pinker, the better angels of our nature, sort of encourage the better sides of ourselves. | ||
| It's very difficult to control a single algorithm that recommends the journey of millions of people through the space of the internet. | ||
| It's very difficult to control that. | ||
| And I think that intelligence instilled in those algorithms will have a much more potentially either positive or detrimental effect than sentient killer robots. | ||
| I hope we get to sentient killer robots. | ||
| Because that problem I think we can work with. | ||
| I'm very optimistic about the positive aspects of approaching sentience, of approaching general intelligence. | ||
| There's going to be a huge amount of benefit and I think there will be... | ||
| There's a lot of mechanisms that can protect against that going wrong. | ||
| Just from knowing the... | ||
| We know how to control intelligent systems. | ||
| When they are sort of in a box, when there are singular systems, when they're distributed across millions of people and there's not a single control point, that becomes really difficult. | ||
| And that's the worry for me is the distributed nature of dumb algorithms. | ||
| On every single phone, sort of controlling the behavior, adjusting the behavior, adjusting the learning journey of different individuals. | ||
| To me, the biggest worry and the most exciting thing is recommender systems, what they're called at Twitter, at Facebook, at YouTube, YouTube especially. | ||
| That one has just like I think you mentioned, there's something special about videos in terms of educating and sometimes indoctrinating people and YouTube. | ||
| Has the hardest time... | ||
| I mean, they have such a difficult problem on their hands in terms of that recommendation because they don't... | ||
| This is a machine learning problem, but knowing the contents of tweets is much easier than knowing the contents of videos. | ||
| Our algorithms are really dumb in terms of being able to watch a video and understand what's being talked about. | ||
| So all YouTube is looking at is the title and the description. | ||
| And that's it. | ||
| Mostly the title. | ||
| It's basically keyword searching. | ||
| And it's looking at the clicking, viewing behavior of the different people. | ||
| So it figures out that the Flat Earth Well, YouTube in particular, they're trying to do something about the influx of conspiracy theory videos and the indoctrination aspect of them. | ||
| One of the things about videos is, say if someone makes a video And they make it on a very particular subject, and they speak eloquently and articulately, but they're wrong about everything they're saying. | ||
| They don't understand the science. | ||
| Say if they're talking about artificial intelligence. | ||
| They're saying something about things that you are an expert in. | ||
| They could, without being checked, without someone like you in the room that says that's not possible because of X, Y, and Z, without that, They can just keep talking. | ||
| So one of the things they do, whether it's about flat earth or whether it's about dinosaurs being fake or nuclear bombs being fake, they can just say these things and they do it with an excellent grasp of the English language, right? | ||
| So they say it They're very compelling in the way they speak. | ||
| They'll show you pictures and images, and if you are not very educated, and you don't understand that this is nonsense, especially if you're not skeptical, you can get roped in. | ||
| You can get roped in real easy, and that's a problem. | ||
| And it's a problem with some of the people that work in these platforms. | ||
| Their children get indoctrinated, and they get angry. | ||
| Their children get indoctrinated. | ||
| Now, what's interesting is They get indoctrinated also with right-wing ideology, and then people get mad that they're indoctrinated by Ben Shapiro videos. | ||
| So they'll get pissed off with that. | ||
| But you're okay with left-wing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Why? | ||
| Because you're left wing. | ||
| So then it becomes like, okay, what is a problem? | ||
| What's really a problem? | ||
| And what is just something that's opposed to your personal ideology? | ||
| And who gets to make that distinction? | ||
| And that is where the arguments for the First Amendment come into play. | ||
| Like, should these... | ||
| Social media companies that have massive amounts of power and influence, should they be held to the same standards as the First Amendment? | ||
| And should these platforms be treated as essentially a town hall, like where anyone can speak, and there's a platform? | ||
| And there's a real problem that there's not that many of them. | ||
| This is a real problem. | ||
| The real problem is like... | ||
| Twitter is the place where people go to argue and talk about shit. | ||
| And Twitter maybe has a competitor on Facebook, but YouTube certainly doesn't have a competitor. | ||
| YouTube doesn't have any competitor. | ||
| I mean, there's Vimeo, there's a few other platforms, but realistically, it's YouTube. | ||
| You know, YouTube is a giant, giant platform. | ||
| What is this? | ||
| Alphabet reports YouTube ad revenue for the first time. | ||
| Video service generated $15.1 billion in 2019. Holy shit! | ||
| In comparison, I just looked up Twitch ad revenue was supposedly around $500 to $600 million. | ||
| Wow, that's a big difference. | ||
| And what about Facebook? | ||
| Facebook is stupendously valuable. | ||
| Probably way higher than that. | ||
| By the way, Facebook I don't think pays, like YouTube paid for my McDonald's burgers yesterday. | ||
| Yeah, Facebook's not right. | ||
| Facebook is not, and Twitter and Instagram, I don't think, are paying you directly. | ||
| There's a lot of calls to break up Facebook. | ||
| I mean, I'm on Facebook, but I'm not on it. | ||
| I don't use it. | ||
| It's just connected to my Instagram. | ||
| When I post something on Instagram, it goes to Facebook as well. | ||
| I never go to Facebook. | ||
| There's a Joe Rogan Facebook group that's a dumpster fire of brilliant folks. | ||
| Let me just put it that way. | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| Facebook's revenues amounted to $21.8 billion. | ||
| In just the fourth quarter. | ||
| Jesus Christ, just the fourth quarter, the majority of which were generated through advertising. | ||
| The company announced over 7 million active advertisers on Facebook during the third quarter of 2019. That probably, though, also adds an Instagram. | ||
| That thing with YouTube is just YouTube, not Google, not YouTube Premium, not anything else, just the address. | ||
| And to be fair, so the cash they have, they spend like Facebook AI research groups, some of the most brilliant. | ||
| It's a huge group that's doing general open-ended research. | ||
| Google Research, Google Brain, Google DeepMind are doing open-ended research. | ||
| They're not doing the ad stuff. | ||
| They're really trying to build... | ||
| That's the cool thing about these companies having a lot of cash is they can bring some of the smartest people and let them work on whatever in case it comes up with a cool idea. | ||
| Like autonomous vehicles with Waymo. | ||
| It's like, let's see if we can make this work. | ||
| Let's throw some money at it even if it doesn't make any money in the next 5, 10, 20 years. | ||
| Let's make it work. | ||
| That's the positive side of having that kind of money. | ||
| Yeah, that makes sense. | ||
| As long as they keep doing those kind of things. | ||
| The real concern, though, is that they're actually severely influencing the democratic process. | ||
| It's difficult, certainly in Jack Dorsey. | ||
| Jack Dorsey, in terms of the CEOs he interacted with, I think was one of the good guys. | ||
| Yes, I agree. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He wants a Wild West Twitter. | |
| Well, he doesn't know it. | ||
| He wants a good Twitter. | ||
| He's kind of thinking about Wild West. | ||
| But his ideas have two. | ||
| Oh, two Twitter? | ||
| One that's filtered and one that's like... | ||
| Anything goes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yee-haw! | |
| But I think the point is nobody knows what's the best kind of Twitter. | ||
| Even having two Twitters. | ||
| Do you really want the Wild West? | ||
| Do you want the First Amendment to say free speech for everyone? | ||
| It's a difficult... | ||
| The gray area there, you were just talking about YouTube with certain people saying that I'm an expert in AI or autonomous vehicles. | ||
| But I disagree with a lot of people. | ||
| And if those people make videos and maybe they don't have a PhD, God forbid, like are they not an expert either? | ||
| Am I right? | ||
| I'm actually personally sick of the academic sort of cathedral thinking that just because you have a PhD and just you can be an expert. | ||
| Like I'm not an expert. | ||
| I'm an idiot. | ||
| Do you feel like that line is getting more blurred with the access to all those MIT courses that are online and the extreme amount of data that's available to people, that there are going to be a lot of people that, even though they might not be classically trained, they have a massive amount of information? | ||
| And have an open mind. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I've recorded a podcast. | ||
| First of all, shout out to Jamie for being an incredible mastermind of audio production. | ||
| The reason I'm giving a shout out is because I suck so badly, I didn't have to do it. | ||
| I do it all myself. | ||
| But I do it pretty good. | ||
| When you learn it yourself from scratch, just like with Jiu Jitsu or with music and so on, I learn guitar from scratch. | ||
| You can learn with the online materials they have now. | ||
| You can become really good. | ||
| And the journey you take is not the traditional conformist journey through that education process. | ||
| You take your own journey. | ||
| And when you have millions of people taking their own journey through that process, There's going to be brilliant people without a PhD or without ever having gone to college. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And they... | ||
| I mean, it's difficult to know what to do with that, especially about political questions like economists. | ||
| There's these, you know, Paul Krugman, Nobel Prize winner... | ||
| Economists, Harvard economists, you know, they're supposed to be the holders of the truth and the fundamentals of our economy and when is there going to be a crash, what's good for the economy is the left, the right, what taxation system is good for the economy. | ||
| But nobody really knows. | ||
| Same with like nutrition science, psychology, economics, anything that involves humans is a giant mess that expertise can come from anywhere. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like Rhonda Patrick, I think she's pretty criticized for – she's kind of young. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And she's – I would say she's incredibly knowledgeable as one of the world sort of experts. | ||
| But I think academia probably doesn't acknowledge her as an expert. | ||
| She's like young. | ||
| She recently got a PhD. | ||
| I don't – I'm not even sure – like there's that kind of hierarchy that people push down. | ||
| She's been – Unjustly criticized by people who don't even know her actual credentials. | ||
| There was one guy who was criticizing her and saying, well, she's not a clinical researcher. | ||
| That's one of the things he was backing his criticism on. | ||
| Like, no, that's exactly what she is. | ||
| And she's been doing that for years. | ||
| Like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. | ||
| People get very touchy with her because she's young and also because she's incredibly brilliant. | ||
| Like, that lady, she brings stacks and stacks of notes when she comes here. | ||
| She doesn't even look at them. | ||
| She just rattles off all those studies off the top of her head. | ||
| She has a massive amount of data available. | ||
| And she's very unbiased in her perceptions of things. | ||
| She's all about what do the results say? | ||
| What have the studies proven? | ||
| What can we learn from those studies? | ||
| And what do we have to take into consideration when we're assessing this data? | ||
| She's brilliant. | ||
| She's off the charts brilliant. | ||
| And people get fucking jealous, and I've seen it. | ||
| I've seen it with weaker, lazy minds in academia that criticize her that had, at least at one point in time, had a larger platform. | ||
| I think her platform is bigger now, and I'm happy that I've played a part in that. | ||
| And I don't want to be a social justice warrior, but I have seen women being criticized more harshly in a lot of domains of science. | ||
| I think you're right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you know, she's pretty, too. | ||
| There's a lot of things wrong there, you know? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Young, pretty. | |
| Yeah, I get criticized for that, too. | ||
| Like, good-looking. | ||
| Beautiful guy. | ||
| Good-dressed well. | ||
| Good-looking, funny, yeah. | ||
| And handsome. | ||
| No. | ||
| Actually, I get criticized as this guy's an idiot. | ||
| He's boring. | ||
| Why can't he be more like Joe Rogan? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| What else you got there? | ||
| What else? | ||
| The notes wise? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I gotta talk to you about martial arts. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I gotta talk to you about... | ||
| Well, so I'm a huge fan of wrestling. | ||
| I'm a huge fan of the Dagestan region. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And I've gotten a lot of shit for it. | ||
| Posted that, you know, Conor's gonna be cowboy before that happened. | ||
| I'm also a huge fan of the different styles of fighters in MMA. And I'm surprised how much shit actually Conor gets. | ||
| Even though he brought... | ||
| Besides... | ||
| Besides sort of all the... | ||
| All the mess that came with him. | ||
| He also brought an interesting style, an interesting way of approaching fights, an interesting style of thinking and also philosophizing about fighting, which I think is amazing. | ||
| It clashes with the ideas of Khabib. | ||
| To me, Khabib Nurmagomedov, It'd be... | ||
| So I posted that Conor would be Cowboy, and... | ||
| Well, I didn't know Dana was going to say what he was going to say, but he would face Masvidal, and I thought he could beat Masvidal. | ||
| And then the biggest fight ever, 30,000 people in Moscow against Khabib. | ||
| For a rematch. | ||
| For a rematch would be the greatest fight ever. | ||
| Getting past Masvidal is not easy. | ||
| And Khabib getting past Tony Ferguson is not easy either. | ||
| Not easy, yeah. | ||
| Both of those fights... | ||
| And first of all, Masvidal is now going to fight Usman, which is very interesting. | ||
| Yeah, that's July. | ||
| Very, very interesting fight. | ||
| Usman is such a tank. | ||
| He's fucking terrifying. | ||
| They hate each other. | ||
| There's a lot of animosity and a lot of shit-talking. | ||
| But it's also, the more that happens, the better it is for both of them in terms of revenue generated. | ||
| It's a really interesting fight. | ||
| Now, let me tell you something. | ||
| When Masvidal was at the Conor cowboy fight, when they put the camera on him, biggest pop from the crowd. | ||
| The biggest. | ||
| Pop meaning like a blaze screaming and stuff. | ||
| People went nuts. | ||
| They saw him, they were like, yeah! | ||
| And he was like... | ||
| Wearing that robe. | ||
| He's hilarious. | ||
| Dude, I mean, he's a slow starter in terms of his career, being recognized for the kind of fighter that he is now, and also being recognized publicly as a superstar. | ||
| But his time has come. | ||
| He is here. | ||
| He is a fucking star. | ||
| When that camera went on him... | ||
| And the audience saw him, that crowd went bananas. | ||
| The entire T-Mobile arena, they went crazy. | ||
| Yeah, that would be an epic fight. | ||
| But in terms of the great, I just think, maybe it's me, the romanticized notion of Rocky IV, but Khan vs. | ||
| Khabib in Moscow, I can just see it with Putin and Fedor sitting there. | ||
| I'll sit next to him. | ||
| Do you think they would do it in Moscow? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| 30,000 people. | ||
| If Conor went to Moscow, man, good luck getting out of there if you win. | ||
| Good luck getting out of there if you lose. | ||
| He's so loved there. | ||
| Khabib is so loved in Russia. | ||
| But I think Russian people also love MMA generally. | ||
| The number of people that love fighting in Russia is huge. | ||
| And I know it seems like on the internet, Khabib is like, they love Khabib and Conor's hated. | ||
| But I think ultimately, they love a good, what does Conor call it? | ||
| A good... | ||
| Heel? | ||
| No, no. | ||
| A good scrap, I think he calls it. | ||
| A good fight. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, so I think that would be probably the biggest fight of all time. | ||
| And I think actually Conor has a shot. | ||
| I love... | ||
| Khabib is probably my favorite fighter. | ||
| I love that style of fighting. | ||
| I like the Sayetiev brothers that Frankie Edgar mentioned to you about. | ||
| They're probably the... | ||
| Bouvay Sar Sayetiev is the greatest freestyle wrestler of all time. | ||
| Just epic. | ||
| His brother Adam has a match against the Soldier of God. | ||
| What's his name? | ||
| Yoel Romero. | ||
| Yoel Romero at the 2000 Olympics in the finals. | ||
| Yoel Romero looks like, if you were to imagine the most terrifying opponent ever, he's just like shredded, ripped. | ||
| And then Adam Saitiev looks like, I don't know, a dad bod, very skinny nerd. | ||
| And he just effortlessly destroys him. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| With a trip. | ||
| Let me see that video. | ||
| Is it online? | ||
| 2000 Olympic Sydney Finals. | ||
| Adam Saitev versus... | ||
| Spell his name? | ||
| Adam Saitev. | ||
| S-A-I-T-I-E-V versus... | ||
| Yoel Romero. | ||
| Yoel Romero's fighting Israel Adesanya in March. | ||
| That is giant. | ||
| I can't... | ||
| Maybe not too much of a nerd, but... | ||
| Well, he definitely doesn't look as built as Yoel. | ||
| Yoel's a freak. | ||
| Yoel's probably the freakiest athlete I think I've ever seen personally in terms of his build, like his small waist. | ||
| He hugged that guy and picked him up. | ||
| I was at the end of it. | ||
| What moment was I looking for in here? | ||
| There's a couple moments where he scores points. | ||
| Yoel's got him down here. | ||
| Yeah, so he's up by a 4-1. | ||
| And I think, once again, he takes him down. | ||
| There's a 4-0 there. | ||
| I don't see. | ||
| Just start it off in the beginning so we could watch it. | ||
| There's a certain moment. | ||
| I mean... | ||
|
unidentified
|
There it goes. | |
| Just start it right there. | ||
| They're basically technicians. | ||
| Yes, for sure. | ||
| When you look at the Dagestani people, I mean, there's such emphasis on technique. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Of everything else. | ||
| But also toughness. | ||
| It's like they have both things. | ||
| And this is one of the things that George St. Pierre told me about training in Russia. | ||
| Excuse me, training in Montreal. | ||
| What a takedown right there. | ||
| Fuck, that was spectacular. | ||
| Oh my God, it's amazing. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| I think that was an inner trip, Uchigari type of trip. | ||
| It covers his mouth. | ||
| What George St. Pierre told me about training with Russian nationals in Montreal, he said they're so technical in that you get a lot of Americans that are definitely technical, but they emphasize that Being hard and tough and grueling training routines and grinding, butting heads in practice. | ||
| And he said, whereas the Russian nationals are far more committed to drilling, far more committed to the technical aspects of exchanges and going through one technique after the other, chaining these techniques together, understanding the paths. | ||
| Also, one of the, at least to me, one of the differences, it could be similar to Yael Romero's actually philosophy, but the philosophy of the Dagestani, the Russian people, the Soviet Union, is that recognition, fame, money, all that stuff doesn't matter. | ||
| Even winning doesn't matter. | ||
| The purity of the art is what matters. | ||
|
unidentified
|
At least with the Sayetiev brothers is what they stood for. | |
| Well, that mirrors what Khabib says about Conor, that he doesn't want to have a rematch with him. | ||
| He's like, fuck that dude. | ||
| That's there. | ||
| I mean, Khabib is a little bit more of the modern age. | ||
| I mean, he has an Instagram and Twitter and so on, right? | ||
| And Khabib, despite what he says, also does a little bit of trash talking. | ||
| He still plays the game a little bit. | ||
| I'm going to change his face. | ||
| That's my favorite. | ||
| Send me location. | ||
| I want to change his face. | ||
| Most people say, especially when I'm here, is basically if Khabib did science. | ||
| I take that as a compliment. | ||
| That's one of my favorite quotes he's ever said, though. | ||
| I want to change his face. | ||
| I want to change his face. | ||
| It's terrifying. | ||
| It's terrifying because he can do it. | ||
| The cool thing is with Conor, that doesn't affect him. | ||
| The confidence he has. | ||
| The confidence that Conor has is just incredible. | ||
| Well, that he wants to do it again. | ||
| But I know for a fact that Conor was going through a whole lot of shit before that fight and did not have the best training camp. | ||
| And if he did an amazing training camp for this, like he really prepared. | ||
| Like he did for Conor. | ||
| Or excuse me, Cowboy. | ||
| The Cowboy fight, his coaches were saying he's never looked better. | ||
| That he just was on fire and so focused and so... | ||
| So accurate and and precise in training and that he was just on fire and that just seemed to be that all of the Bullshit and the distractions and all the things that sort of come with being the kind of global superstar that Connor is He managed to figure out a way to get away from those and to just really concentrate on his craft and and pull everything to a Championship level again and god damn it. | ||
| He looked like it against cowboy And to see the contrast of those two cultures, I mean, it is a Rocky IV type of situation. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because you better believe Conor McGregor will resume trash talking. | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| He might not. | ||
| I mean, he didn't in this fight with Cowboy at all. | ||
| He didn't do any trash talking. | ||
| I wonder if maybe he has learned. | ||
| And I wonder if, you know, his desire to beat Khabib... | ||
| It eclipses his desire to get inside of his head and play all the games that he usually plays and the promotional games that ultimately probably won't be necessary. | ||
| But I think, you know, the UFC is trying to push for it right now. | ||
| They're pushing for it right now, a rematch with Khabib, but they're ignoring Tony Ferguson in a lot of ways, in my eyes. | ||
| And I'm like, that is the boogeyman. | ||
| That's going to be exciting. | ||
| It can go anywhere. | ||
| He's the boogeyman, dude. | ||
| He doesn't get tired. | ||
| He doesn't get tired. | ||
| He slices everybody up. | ||
| He's lost one fight in X amount of years, and that was because he had a broken arm. | ||
| Michael Johnson broke his arm. | ||
| So when you think about what Tony has been able to do to world-class fighters, what he did to Donald, I mean, he just smashed Donald's face. | ||
| He smashed Anthony Pettis. | ||
| He smashes everybody. | ||
| Tony Ferguson's the goddamn boogeyman. | ||
| He really is. | ||
| He doesn't get tired, man. | ||
| Do you think he'll get taken down? | ||
| For sure he'll get taken down. | ||
| He's not scared to be taken down. | ||
| That's the difference between Tony and everyone else. | ||
| If he gets taken down, he might let him take him down and just attack off of his back and elbow the shit out of him off of his back. | ||
| He's fucking dangerous off his back. | ||
| He's hard to control. | ||
| He scrambles very, very well. | ||
| He also has fantastic submissions, and he catches them from everywhere. | ||
| I mean, he catches triangle chokes, darts chokes. | ||
| His darts chokes are spectacular. | ||
| He's got one of the best darts chokes in the sport. | ||
| And he's not scared. | ||
| Ooh, if Khabib gets submitted? | ||
| My god, that would be crazy. | ||
| What if he puts Khabib asleep? | ||
| Do you remember when Dustin Poirier caught Khabib in a guillotine? | ||
| Yeah, he did. | ||
| He caught Khabib in a guillotine. | ||
| Listen, that is not where you want to be with Tony Ferguson. | ||
| You do not want to be in that position with Tony Ferguson. | ||
| That's a different kind of guillotine. | ||
| Dustin Poirier is primarily a striker. | ||
| Clearly he has submission skills. | ||
| He submitted guys before. | ||
| He submitted Max Holloway. | ||
| Dustin Poirier is a bad motherfucker, no doubt about it. | ||
| But when it comes to pure submission skills... | ||
| Tony Ferguson has an edge. | ||
| And, you know, he's a black belt, a 10th planet black belt. | ||
| He's a master of submissions and a great wrestler and a great scrambler. | ||
| And the thing about him that's so fucking terrifying is his cardio. | ||
| It's all the things, right? | ||
| It's the striking, it's the grappling, it's the submission abilities. | ||
| But he's not going to get tired. | ||
| He doesn't get tired. | ||
| And his mind is impenetrable. | ||
| His mind's impenetrable. | ||
| Yeah, people are looking past that fight. | ||
| Fuck no, not me, man. | ||
| I don't understand it. | ||
| When the UFC's talking about, you know, look at everybody he's fought. | ||
| Beat the fuck out of everybody. | ||
| Edson Barboza, Rafael dos Anjos. | ||
| Tony Ferguson, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, he smashes people. | ||
| He smashes people. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, it's crazy. | ||
| I would say it probably could be his toughest fight to do. | ||
| I think it is his toughest fight. | ||
| I do. | ||
| I think that puts... | ||
| You know, a lot of people put Khabib close to the top 10 of all time. | ||
| Oh, he's in the top 10 of all time. | ||
| In my eyes. | ||
| He's 28-0. | ||
| As a lightweight. | ||
| Who cares about the record? | ||
| You look at the people you've beat. | ||
| Sometimes we idolize people for the perfection of the record too much. | ||
| Dude, the way he ragdolled Rafael Dos Anjos, the way he steamrolled, like, I mean, he's beaten top-flight competition and made them look like they have no business being in there with him. | ||
| But I think if you beat Tony Ferguson, I mean, that places him, that's immense. | ||
| And people put him above, like, I don't know, I think Hanna deserves to be in that story, in that top, like, 15, top 10. Perhaps. | ||
| Perhaps. | ||
| Jose Aldo. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I don't know why people look past Jose Aldo or Eddie Alvarez. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| The Eddie Alvarez fight was unbelievable. | ||
| At least, maybe I'm just biased in the sense that I thought there's no way that Conor beats Jose Aldo. | ||
| And then there's no way Conor beats Eddie Alvarez moving up a weight class. | ||
| I always thought he's going to lose. | ||
| And being surprised makes me up... | ||
| Connor's ability in my head. | ||
| Well, he's phenomenal. | ||
| With Connor, it seems to be a matter of how focused he is, and who is he fighting, and where is he at in his life. | ||
| His life is so chaotic. | ||
| He's always filled with so many distractions. | ||
| I mean, think about all the crazy shit that he's done, the throwing, the... | ||
| Throwing the dolly at the bus and just all the nutty shit he's done. | ||
| But it's nice that he seems to be still hungry to fight even though he probably has a lot of money in the bank. | ||
| Well, he certainly was hungry to fight Cowboy. | ||
| I mean, he looked fantastic in that fight. | ||
| And again, he's worth a couple hundred million dollars. | ||
| So it's just the pure love of the game. | ||
| Pure love of the game. | ||
| And that's kind of the warrior ethos that Khabib comes from, and it's cool to see that. | ||
| Mind if I... Nobody's ever said anything in Russian, actually, probably in the Joe Rogan podcast. | ||
| No, I don't think so. | ||
| If you ever need a translator... | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I'm your man. | ||
| No, can I read a... | ||
| So, Saitiev, just a few lines in Russian. | ||
| Okay, sure. | ||
| So, Bovaysar Saitiev would read Boris Parstanak, which is a famous Russian poet, won the Nobel Prize before every match, and he kind of captures that ethic. | ||
| So, this is the poem. | ||
| I'll say it in Russian. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And then in English. | ||
| Please. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I know there's a bunch of Russian people that appreciate that. | ||
| The translation is a bit crappy. | ||
| It's very difficult to translate the Russian language. | ||
| But it's... | ||
| The others, step by step, will follow the living imprint of your feet. | ||
| But you yourself must not distinguish your victory from your defeat. | ||
| And never for a single moment betray your credo or pretend. | ||
| But be alive. | ||
| Only this matters. | ||
| Alive and burning to the end. | ||
| So this is the end of a poem that represents the fact that most of the poem says that fame, recognition, money, none of that matters. | ||
| The winning and losing, none of that matters. | ||
| What matters is the purity of the art. | ||
| Just giving yourself completely over to the art. | ||
| So like others will write your story. | ||
| Others will tell whether you did good or bad. | ||
| Others will inspire using your story. | ||
| But as the artist, so in the case of Pasternak, he's a poet, writer, wrote Dr. Zhivago, is the art, you should only think about the art and the purity of it and the love of it. | ||
| And so when you look at Bouvasir Saiteyev and the brothers and the whole Dagestan region, They shunned fame. | ||
| So the thing that Khabib is thrust into this MMA world, which is fundamentally, I mean, it's a popular sport. | ||
| It's an interesting thing. | ||
| I mentioned, I think last time I was on here, the most terrifying human being. | ||
| You know investors when they like buy a penny stock seeing it's gonna blow up to me the most terrifying human being in the heavyweight division the the Russian tank I mentioned last time the Sadolayev who now just continues destroying everybody and it looks like he's already won the gold medal one bunch of world championships he's a heavyweight the heavyweights in the UFC should be scared. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is he gonna fight MMA? So the hard thing... | |
| Spell his name and let's get a video so we can look at it. | ||
| There he is. | ||
| Jamie's got it. | ||
| Bam! | ||
|
unidentified
|
I will never join MMA. No, hold on a second. | |
| The MMA. The MMA. That's part of the quote. | ||
| And that's not... | ||
| Yeah, that's closer to where he was chasing. | ||
| He's still chasing the Olympics. | ||
| How do you say the name? | ||
| How did you say his first name? | ||
| Well, I just call him the Russian tank. | ||
| But it's Abdul Rashid Zedelaev. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| 23, 24 years old. | ||
| And I think his tension is, he says he has a lot of close friends who are MMA fighters. | ||
| He loves watching it. | ||
| He feels a lot for them. | ||
| But it's not the very thing that this poem gets at. | ||
| He thinks that wrestling, the pure sport of wrestling, is all about courage, skill. | ||
| He describes it in this way. | ||
| He thinks MMA also has to have this component of trash talk and showmanship. | ||
| And he doesn't like it. | ||
| But I think that MMA needs that guy. | ||
| Like a heavyweight Khabib. | ||
| Heavyweight Khabib. | ||
| Every Conor needs a Khabib. | ||
| Every showman needs a person who says showmanship sucks. | ||
| Every Ali needs a Frazier. | ||
| Yeah, Frazier, right. | ||
| But this guy is terrifying. | ||
| I think he would do the same thing to the Khabib division. | ||
| Again, humble technique is everything, but just strength-wise is also a monster. | ||
| And is he really thinking about fighting or no? | ||
| It's hard to say. | ||
| It's hard to say because, again, one of the greatest wrestlers of all time really focused on 2020 Olympics. | ||
| He's throwing punches here. | ||
| I think what's going to happen is once likely wins gold at this Olympics, he's going to, you know, this titanic ship, a 23-, 24-year-old ship is going to start thinking and turning. | ||
| Maybe there is artistry. | ||
| Maybe there is skill and courage in mixed martial arts. | ||
| Well, there definitely is. | ||
| I mean, he doesn't have to do the trash talking thing. | ||
| There's a lot of people that are very stoic that fight and they don't participate in any of that stuff. | ||
| You know, and then there's people that thrive on that stuff. | ||
| I mean, it's really up to you. | ||
| The UFC doesn't tell you you have to talk trash. | ||
| You know? | ||
| I mean, results are what matters. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And it's not even trash that's interesting. | ||
| I think stories are interesting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's why people like team sports, like NFL. Did you watch the Super Bowl yesterday? | ||
| No, I didn't. | ||
| I went to Disneyland. | ||
| I wanted to talk to you about something that was at Disneyland. | ||
| What's that? | ||
| There's a new Star Wars ride. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This crazy Star Wars ride. | ||
| And it's a 20-minute ride. | ||
| I mean, it's a crazy long ride, and a lot of it, you're in like a vehicle. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And the vehicle is all programmed by computers. | ||
| The direction of the vehicle, the way the vehicle moves, it's very complex. | ||
| There's no tracks. | ||
| So you're riding around in this vehicle, and the vehicle, like, they're shooting at you, the vehicle has to back up, you go into this new door, the vehicle knows how to go around a corner, and what's that guy's name? | ||
| Darth Maul is trying to cut through the wall. | ||
| Spoiler alert. | ||
| Fucking, this new ride is amazing. | ||
| It's crazy how intricate and complicated it is and how far off the deep end Disneyland went to create this thing. | ||
| I mean, it looks so crazy. | ||
| I mean, you're like, how much money did this cost? | ||
| This is it right here. | ||
| So you're riding around in these things and stormtroopers are shooting at you. | ||
| Are there rails or no? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| No, there's no rails, man. | ||
| Everything is done by computer. | ||
| The computer tracks out the environment and knows where each one of these go. | ||
| And by the way, there's several cars moving at the same time. | ||
| So there's people in front of you. | ||
| They're in cars. | ||
| They get shot at. | ||
| And look at the fucking scale of this place. | ||
| So that's one of them giant four... | ||
| Four-legged robot things that's in Star Wars. | ||
| So you're moving underneath them. | ||
| There's giant cannons that you have to move through. | ||
| It's in Rise of the Resistance. | ||
| It's trackless. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| So this represents... | ||
| There's lines on the ground. | ||
| There's some... | ||
| I think those lines on the ground are just the wheels going the same way over and over and over again. | ||
| Yeah, no. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| I just wanted to sort of commentate, but they're probably not used in the computer version. | ||
| So yeah, I think it's probably LiDAR-based. | ||
| It's... | ||
| I don't know what it's based on, but the computer is coordinating all of these different things at the same time. | ||
| You go through this room and you're seeing battles outside and you feel it. | ||
| You see the walls get hit like that. | ||
| It's fucking crazy, man. | ||
| It's amazing. | ||
| I mean, the line is bonkers. | ||
| So the robotics aspect of this, like the AI aspect of this, is probably minimal. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| You're in this thing. | ||
| You move through this room. | ||
| And in the background, you're watching these starships shooting at each other. | ||
| It's all timed perfectly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's crazy, man. | ||
| Yeah, so to make this happen, I mean these are people that are willing to probably invest hundreds of millions in this. | ||
| Guaranteed. | ||
| So I think there's some, like there's very minimal AI in this because AI creates uncertainty and uncertainty is very undesirable in situations like this. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, I don't think there's any AI in it, but for sure there's some sort of automation, some computer automation. | ||
| Yeah, but it's basic software. | ||
| It's software automation. | ||
| Don't call this basic. | ||
| Don't you dare. | ||
| Don't you dare, Lex. | ||
| Star Wars is not even real. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh! | |
| Who are you? | ||
| There's reusable rockets being launched on a monthly basis, and we're going to colonize Mars for real soon. | ||
| That's real. | ||
| That's more interesting, for sure. | ||
| Definitely. | ||
| But this is dope. | ||
| So I'll be sitting on Mars while you... | ||
| No, I'll be here playing fucking Disneyland rides. | ||
| And then I'll go home and sleep in a bed and breathe air. | ||
| Fuck, you'll be out there on Mars. | ||
| And the history books will remember you. | ||
| The history books? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| History books don't matter once you're dead. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, it's nice that we have access to the history books, and I praise the historians for sure, but I'm not interested in making history. | ||
| Yeah, I don't know actually why I said that because I don't care about the history books. | ||
| Just the exciting – it's one of the only frontiers that we can actually be explorers in. | ||
| Like we've explored – well, the depths of the ocean we haven't exactly explored. | ||
| Right, yeah. | ||
| But the outer space, that's like – Man, that's like the most exciting possibility for engineering and science that we can explore. | ||
| And the mind, like I mentioned. | ||
| We don't know shit about the mind and exploring that with neuroscience, with AI. Just all of that, the cautiousness. | ||
| Oh, the other thing you talked about with Bostrom, the simulation. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I wanted to talk to you about that, too. | ||
| Because you brought up Bostrom. | ||
| Bostrom relies on, I mean, he was relying on theories in terms of like mathematical theories of probability to say that he thinks it's more likely that we're in a simulation. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, the thing he's articulated, I don't think he's come up with the idea of the simulation. | ||
| He just kind of really thought about it deeply. | ||
| He came up with a simulation argument, which are these three categories that he described to you, possible outcomes. | ||
| I think the first one is we destroy ourselves before we ever create a simulation. | ||
| The second one is that we would lose interest in creating a simulation at some point. | ||
| And the third one is we're living in a simulation. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Where do you lean? | ||
| I think there's going to—the three paths that he highlighted, it makes it sound like it's so clear that it's just three, but I think there's going to be a huge amount of possibilities of the kinds of simulations. | ||
| Like to me, I keep asking, you know, to ask Elon Musk about the simulation where he said— What's on the other side? | ||
| What's outside the simulation. | ||
| Yeah, I think I asked, what would you ask an AGI system? | ||
| You said, what's outside the simulation is the question. | ||
| Yeah, he believes in it. | ||
| Or at least he entertains it as a troll. | ||
| Elon Musk embodies the best of the Twitter internet troll, a meme, and a brilliant engineer and designer in one. | ||
| It's like a quantum state that you can't quite figure out what's the coupling. | ||
| Because I don't know if he's trolling, but I'm the same way. | ||
| I love asking people about the simulation, even though I get a little bit of hate from the scientific community. | ||
| Why do you get hate from the scientific community about simulation? | ||
| Because it's a ridiculous notion if you think of it literally because it's not a testable thing. | ||
| We don't know how to test. | ||
| Why are you talking about this? | ||
| Why do you sit down with Elon Musk and talk about the simulation when you're sitting with a world expert in particular aspects of rockets or robotics? | ||
| I'm an expert. | ||
| I can't believe I just said that. | ||
| I'm not an expert in anything. | ||
| But I know a few things about autonomous vehicles. | ||
| I like to think of it as... | ||
| How would we build a simulation? | ||
| What would be a compelling enough virtual reality game that you want to stay there for your whole life? | ||
| That's a first step there. | ||
| That's useful to think about what is our reality? | ||
| What aspects are most interesting for us humans to be able to perceive with our limited perception and cognitive abilities, interpret and interact with? | ||
| And then the bigger question then is how do you build a larger scale simulation that would be able to create that virtual reality game, which I think is a possible future. | ||
| We're already creating virtual worlds for ourselves on Twitter and social networks and so on. | ||
| I really believe that virtual reality... | ||
| We'll spend more and more of our lives in the next 50 to 100 years in virtual worlds. | ||
| And the simulation hypothesis and simulation discussion is part of that. | ||
| I think there's... | ||
| The question of what's outside simulation is really interesting. | ||
| That's the other way of... | ||
| Because what created us? | ||
| What started the whole thing? | ||
| It's the modern version of asking... | ||
| What is God? | ||
| What does God look like? | ||
| It's asking, what does the programmer look like? | ||
| I think that's a fascinating question. | ||
| But arguing that we're already living in a simulation, I think you've got stuck on that little point. | ||
| I think it's not that... | ||
| There's a bit of a language barrier, too. | ||
| There's a technical... | ||
| I think Nick is legit. | ||
| It's funny. | ||
| Nick is a legit philosopher. | ||
| And so he's been fighting battles in the philosophy game. | ||
| Like, you ask them, does somebody disagree with him on these hypotheses? | ||
| And there's a bunch of philosophers that disagree with him, including Sean Carroll on the philosophical level. | ||
| And a lot of the arguments are in philosophy and they're sort of technical and they're about language and about terms and so on. | ||
| But I think, yeah, it's very possible that we live in a simulation. | ||
| I think... | ||
| One of the constructs of physics, theoretical physics, with many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, as Sean has talked to you about, reveals some interesting fundamental building blocks of our reality. | ||
| There's something I don't think people have talked to you about, which is the coolest thing to me, the most amazing thing that nobody can explain. | ||
| Yeah, things called cellular automata. | ||
| And there's a guy, a mathematician named John Conway who came up in the 70s with a thing called Game of Life. | ||
| And cellular automata are these two-dimensional, one-dimensional, but Game of Life is a two-dimensional grid Where every single little cell is really dumb and it behaves based on the cells next to it. | ||
| And it's born when there's like a certain number, like three cells alive next to it and it dies otherwise. | ||
| So it's like a simple rule for birth and death. | ||
| And all it knows is its nearby surrounding and its own life. | ||
| And if you take that system with a really dumb rule and expand it in size, arbitrary complexity emerges. | ||
| You can have Turing machines, so you can simulate perfect computers with that system. | ||
| And it can grow, and all these behaviors grow. | ||
| Like if you watch, if people Google Game of Life, and you can watch this extremely dumb, simple system just grow arbitrary complexities. | ||
| And what you start to realize that from such incredibly simple building blocks that don't know anything about the bigger world around them, you can build our entire universe. | ||
| You can build the kind of complexities we see in us. | ||
| So we think that God... | ||
| It's like designing every little aspect or whatever of our world or a simulation hypothesis. | ||
| The simulation is designed by hand, like I'm going to craft these things. | ||
| What you realize is all you need to do is just set some initial conditions, set some really basic rules, And allow the system to grow. | ||
| As long as it can grow arbitrarily, just crazy stuff, amazing stuff can happen. | ||
| From simplicity, complexity can emerge. | ||
| If you study this a little bit closer, just watch it. | ||
| People can watch Game of Life on YouTube and think about what it's showing for 10 minutes. | ||
| It'll blow your mind. | ||
| The fact that from... | ||
| Simplicity, arbitrary complexity, beauty can emerge. | ||
| It's incredible. | ||
| For the simulation, the creator of the simulation is probably some 13-year-old nerd living in his mom's basement. | ||
| It's probably just set some rules in this video game and press play. | ||
| And then arbitrary complexity can emerge. | ||
| It can have a Joe Rogan, it can have an Elon Musk, all the technologies that we've developed, and probably millions of other alien species that are living throughout our universe. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| So the, yeah, that to me, the cellular automata reveals that the simulation is much easier to create than we might think. | ||
| But there's a lot of variability in the kinds of simulations we'll create. | ||
| I think the simulation hypothesis thinks there's one. | ||
| But I think there's going to be a lot of varieties. | ||
| There's a lot of possible different rule sets. | ||
| There's a lot of different physical mediums in which these simulations could be created. | ||
| It can be a completely virtual world. | ||
| The role of consciousness, whether you make most people conscious or not, whether most of them are philosophical zombies, they're just like non-player characters and it's just you or you have, or is your mind simulated, like the role of suffering. | ||
| So consciousness brings with it this idea of basically, you know, subjective experience. | ||
| A subjective experience comes with the idea of pain and fear and so on. | ||
| The thing, again, my Russian romanticization of it, but I think fear of death is essential. | ||
| Scarcity is essential for beauty, for life. | ||
| And that's a nice feature of this little simulation we've got going on. | ||
| That there could be a lot of different alternatives, I think. | ||
| It could be less individualistic, less consciousness can be present in different kinds of forms. | ||
| So I see there's a lot more options than those three that he highlights. | ||
| And we can destroy ourselves in a lot of interesting ways. | ||
| The entire civilizations from AI to nuclear weapons to biological, to all kinds of weapons. | ||
| So it's almost like Whether it's a simulation or not is almost irrelevant. | ||
| The complexity of the existence and all of the various pushes and pulls that keep everything together, they're almost operating like some grand plan. | ||
| Whether they like it or not. | ||
| Whether or not a grand plan exists. | ||
| All these different things are happening and everything is moving in a very specific direction, right? | ||
| It's moving towards further complexity. | ||
| Like, I was having a conversation with a friend of mine last night where we were talking about phones. | ||
| And we were like, you know, like, when are they ever going to look at a phone and say, I think we're good. | ||
| We don't have to, the camera works great. | ||
| Signal's great. | ||
| You can call people. | ||
| You can text people. | ||
| Let's just stop innovating right here. | ||
| And we're both laughing. | ||
| Like, it's never going to happen. | ||
| But even though we admit, like, if you have an iPhone 11 or a Pixel 4, is that what you have? | ||
| Yeah, Pixel 4, yeah. | ||
| They work great. | ||
| You don't really need anything better. | ||
| Like, in terms of the way our culture works, you get so much done on these things. | ||
| You can bank on them. | ||
| Is it okay if I'm drinking all your waters, by the way? | ||
| Yeah, we have a lot of water, yeah. | ||
| Please. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| You're so Russian. | ||
| That's very polite of you. | ||
| The existence itself, whether or not there's a design to it, It seems to operate in a matter that would indicate there's a design. | ||
| The design doesn't have to be real. | ||
| It doesn't have to be a simulation. | ||
| It doesn't have to be a grand plan, but it moves in the same way as if it's a grand plan. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| It's hard to put into words, but there's a different force and a momentum like the evolutionary process. | ||
| The fact that life was created, the fact that there's always a kind of progress. | ||
| And also, just like with the Native Americans, the fact that suffering seems to be a constant story that was weaving in. | ||
| We constantly progress, but it seems to be creating the other and torturing. | ||
| There seems to be constant suffering and war and so on through this growth process. | ||
| Death is a huge part of that. | ||
| And conflict. | ||
| Conflict. | ||
| Even social conflict. | ||
| Like we were talking about social justice warriors and that type of thing. | ||
| I think they almost have to exist. | ||
| It's almost like the world creates a space for them and people find a way to fill that space. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The conflict, by the way, also, I don't know if you're even aware, you're kind of, even though you were thrust into politics, you're not aware of politics, but there is the Iowa caucus going on today. | ||
| It's like the first vote for the Democrats. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Bernie's leading in the polls. | ||
| Which is interesting. | ||
| But that's the fun little... | ||
| Americans have their own little conflict going on here. | ||
| Oh, there's always going to be conflict with all groups of people, with everything. | ||
| I mean, there's conflict in the comedy community. | ||
| I'm sure there's conflict in the AI and autonomous vehicle community. | ||
| There's conflict. | ||
| I mean, and those things are critical. | ||
| You know, you learn from conflict. | ||
| If everything was just simple and easy, and there was no resistance whatsoever, nothing would get done. | ||
| And also, your own personal systems would never get tested. | ||
| I feel like every adversity that you experience is really a gift, because on the other end of that adversity, there's an opportunity for massive growth. | ||
| What was that Think and Grow Rich quote that... | ||
| Lovato said the other day every adversity carries the seed of an equivalent advantage. | ||
| I mean, just that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That's a beautiful way to see it. | ||
| That's a beautiful quote. | ||
| I had to write it down. | ||
| I bought that book, too. | ||
| I'm going to get to that once I'm worn out on Native Americans. | ||
| I've got about seven other Native American books. | ||
| I've been, like I mentioned, doing the startup since August, and it's been a bit of a torture. | ||
| The self-doubt is pretty hardcore because I've been failing nonstop. | ||
| So I'm trying to build, spending most of my day programming. | ||
| You're trying to build a her. | ||
| Or a she. | ||
| Whatever it is. | ||
| Is it she or her? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What is it? | |
| Her. | ||
| Her. | ||
| But no, on that path, there's a particular thing because you want to create a business. | ||
| You have to create tools that people would enjoy using on the path. | ||
| That's a long journey to create a companion that can form a deep friendship. | ||
| That seems so weird. | ||
| Everything seems weird until your life becomes better because of it. | ||
| Like, flying cars seem weird. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| To me still. | ||
| In fact, Uber and Hyundai just partnered. | ||
| They're still pushing this idea of flying cars, electric VTOLs. | ||
| I just feel like people are going to slam into each other. | ||
| Unless they are autonomous and they have like magnets, so they repel. | ||
| You know, like, they can't hit each other, they get close, and they just go... | ||
| And what happens when they hit, like, to me, the... | ||
| Like, what does an accident look like? | ||
| They fall on your head. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You're hanging out in your house trying to watch, you know, Black Mirror. | ||
| Or also, like, currently most accidents people can walk away from. | ||
| Like, cars today are incredible. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I don't know how you can walk away from an in-air crash. | ||
| Good question. | ||
| Very good question. | ||
| You probably won't. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Fuck, that's scary. | ||
| Yeah, but any technology kind of seems... | ||
| Awkward or weird, you can be terrified of it or you can think it's weird until it takes over. | ||
| I mean, none of us know what that would look like to have a closer connection with AI systems. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| One of the things in this book that I'm in the middle of, I'm actually towards the end of this Black Elk book, is it details the invention of the automobile and the implementation of it and how the world changes. | ||
| That was the other surprising thing about this book is it's so recent. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| Really, really recent. | ||
| So during this time where Black Elk was a young boy, sees Custer get killed, takes his first scalp, remembers the sound of the man gritting his teeth as he's cutting his hair off, like cutting his scalp off. | ||
| And then later on in his life, as he's an older man, the world goes from very few automobiles to most people have an automobile during his lifetime. | ||
| Most travel is by automobile. | ||
| What does he say about this world, this new world? | ||
| I'll let you read the book. | ||
| He doesn't even know about this world. | ||
| He knows about the world in the 1930s. | ||
| I believe he died in the late 30s. | ||
| It's scary to be born. | ||
| Not scary, but I don't know what it would feel like to... | ||
| Be born in this natural world to see the kind of suffering in the U.S. military and then see the technology of the Industrial Revolution kind of propagate and be faced with that. | ||
| I don't know what that would feel like. | ||
| I don't know which world is better. | ||
| Which world represents progress? | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| What is progress? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What is progress? | ||
| I mean, progress seems to be inevitable complexity. | ||
| Inevitable, never-ending complexity. | ||
| And then there's this push towards that. | ||
| And I've always wondered... | ||
| If, I mean, Elon has this saying that human beings are the biological bootloader for AI. And I've always thought that if you paid attention to the human being's desire for materialism, like materialism seems to be like a constant. | ||
| Throughout cultures, people want things. | ||
| And when they have things, they want better things. | ||
| They want newer things. | ||
| Well, that generates a consistent level of innovation inside that civilization, that culture. | ||
| People are going to make better stuff because people are going to want better stuff. | ||
| So they're going to improve upon things. | ||
| Well, if you just scale that and you keep going, improving, improving, what do you get to? | ||
| Well, you get to something like artificial intelligence. | ||
| You get to something like some sort of... | ||
| Some sort of an event, some sort of a thing where the world changes. | ||
| And I think technology will help us ride that wave. | ||
| I'm an optimist in that sense. | ||
| We haven't talked about much, but I'm an optimist on Neuralink. | ||
| I think there'll be a few exciting developments there. | ||
| So Neuralink, Brain Computer Interfaces, I think it's a really exciting possibility there. | ||
| That Nick Bossom was too also skeptical about. | ||
| I'm more positive about it. | ||
| Increasing the bandwidth of our brain, being able to communicate with the internet, with the information. | ||
| It doesn't necessarily need to be through brain-computer interfaces, but increasing that bandwidth to expand our ability of our mind to reason. | ||
| Not to expand the ability to reason, sorry. | ||
| To take the mechanism of our mind's ability to reason and expand it with access to a lot of information. | ||
| And increase that bandwidth to be able to reason with facts. | ||
| Just like we can look up stuff on Wikipedia now, increasing the speed at which we can do that can, I think, fundamentally transform our ability to think. | ||
| Do you think that that's ever going to be a wireless option? | ||
| Because right now they have to drill holes in your head, right? | ||
| Yeah, I think there could be other interfaces, I think. | ||
| Yeah, I think so. | ||
| But also, like I said, weird technology. | ||
| Holes in your head sounds terrifying right now, but it could be normal. | ||
| Like ear piercing. | ||
| Well, yeah, ear piercings, yeah. | ||
| But there's something special about that. | ||
| Like, hey, did you get suited for Neuralink yet? | ||
| Billy's only 13. He's not ready for Neuralink. | ||
| We're going to wait until he's 16. He's like, Dad, all my friends have it. | ||
| Come on, Dad. | ||
| I want to get fitted. | ||
| And just like surgery, you take knee surgery, you take all surgery except brain surgery, and you take that for granted. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You're like okay with it, but on the brain it's... | ||
| Yeah, it's scary. | ||
| It's sketchy. | ||
| Can I... Because I know you probably got to go. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What do you got? | ||
| Last... | ||
| Can I close it out with a poem? | ||
| Let's do it. | ||
| Because I'm that guy. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Because I've been doing the startup. | ||
| I've been suffering, so I'm reading a lot of Bukowski. | ||
| Oh, Bukowski poems. | ||
| Do you get drunk when you read them? | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Some whiskey. | ||
| Roll the dice. | ||
| Not vodka? | ||
| Vodka is for friends and family. | ||
| When you buy yourself, it's whiskey? | ||
| No, a man does not drink by himself. | ||
| Some men do. | ||
| Well, this man doesn't. | ||
| But it's more like relaxed thinking. | ||
| Drink is whiskey. | ||
| Vodka is we're going crazy. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| We're going dark. | ||
| We're going to raid. | ||
| And pillage. | ||
| Roll the dice or go all the way by Charles Bukowski. | ||
| If you're going to try, go all the way. | ||
| Otherwise, don't even start. | ||
| If you're going to try, go all the way. | ||
| This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs, and maybe your mind. | ||
| Go all the way. | ||
| It could mean not eating for three or four days. | ||
| It could mean freezing on a park bench. | ||
| It could mean jail. | ||
| It could mean derision, mockery, isolation. | ||
| Isolation is the gift. | ||
| All the others are a test of your endurance or how much you really want to do it. | ||
| And you'll do it, despite rejection and the worst odds, and it will be better than anything you can imagine. | ||
| If you're going to try, go all the way. | ||
| There's no other feeling like that. | ||
| You'll be alone with the gods, and the nights will flame with fire. | ||
| Do it. | ||
| Do it. | ||
| All the way. | ||
| All the way. | ||
| You will ride life straight to perfect laughter. | ||
| It's the only good fight there is. | ||
| Take a picture of you while you're reading that. | ||
| Pick up that piece of paper real quick. | ||
| We'll fake it. | ||
| Fake it for Instagram. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Fake it for Instagram. | ||
| People on Instagram that watch it will know. | ||
| Fake. | ||
| Fake. | ||
| Look up. | ||
| Fake. | ||
| That was awesome. | ||
| Appreciate you, brother. | ||
| Thank you very much for coming in here. | ||
| It's always a pleasure. | ||
| We've got to do it more often. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Ten more years. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Ten more years. | ||
| Bye, everybody. | ||
| Nice. | ||
| Thanks, bro. |
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