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Aug. 12, 2019 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:22:36
Joe Rogan Experience #1333 - Tom Papa
Participants
Main voices
j
joe rogan
02:09:15
t
tom papa
01:04:11
Appearances
j
jamie vernon
03:35
Clips
c
craig jones
00:01
j
joe biden
00:02
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Speaker Time Text
joe rogan
You definitely shouldn't make those noises to start off a podcast, Tom Papa.
What are you doing?
You're freaking people out.
What is it called?
ASMR? Do you know what that is?
tom papa
Yeah, like when you...
joe rogan
People like certain sounds?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They find them soothing?
I don't think that's one of them.
tom papa
This is what I use to drive my kids crazy.
I say it's a spoon in mac and cheese.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're like, oh my god, I thought my dad was funny professionally.
This is ridiculous.
They probably think they're going to starve to death.
This is crazy.
tom papa
My younger one, who's like comedian funny, this is her thing.
So she doesn't care about parents or what we're doing.
She's just out for herself.
Whenever I make a joke around the house that I think is funny, she just goes, huh, jokes.
joe rogan
How old is she?
tom papa
14.
joe rogan
That's hilarious.
Do you think she'll be a comic?
tom papa
Yeah.
She could be.
joe rogan
Wow.
tom papa
She definitely could be.
joe rogan
You have a healthy household.
tom papa
It is healthy.
joe rogan
That doesn't seem like a good recipe for comedy.
tom papa
Right?
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Well, you know, it takes all kinds.
joe rogan
It does take all kinds.
Have you met anybody that came from a good childhood that's really funny?
You?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
I'm pretty funny.
joe rogan
You're very funny.
But you came from no problems at all?
tom papa
I think every kid...
joe rogan
Did you move around a lot?
tom papa
I moved once, one town over, and it traumatized me.
In third grade.
unidentified
Third grade?
tom papa
Yeah.
I'm still not over it.
unidentified
Really?
tom papa
But I think that everybody has, I think as a child, even if it's not real heavy stuff, it feels heavy to you.
You know what I mean?
Like my father was super strict and like, you know, spanked us and stuff and I was like this nervous, you know what I mean?
So I think you can grow up pretty normal and be pretty funny, you know?
joe rogan
It's like a line with kids.
It's like you don't want to be mad at them, but you can't let them get away with too much.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
So you have to go, hey, hey, seriously, stop screaming at me.
Stop this.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, you can't do this.
Because every now and then, they'll test.
tom papa
Totally.
joe rogan
Because they fight amongst each other.
Like, I have daughters that are two years apart.
They'll fight amongst each other.
tom papa
That's what I am.
joe rogan
And every now and then, they'll turn it on you.
And you're like, hey, hey, hey.
tom papa
Yeah, hey.
joe rogan
I didn't touch your toys.
I'm not wearing your pants.
tom papa
Yeah, I'm the good guy.
No, it is a weird thing, especially when you know how you were as a kid.
And, you know, we've got daughters, and they're probably similar, where they're not as nutso as we were when we were little.
But you still have to bring the hammer down, even though you think it's kind of funny, or you think it's not that big a deal.
You have to lay down the law, even if...
You don't feel it.
joe rogan
You have to enforce some guidelines, and then you have to communicate about why those guidelines exist.
What I didn't get enough of, I think, when I was a kid is communication about why those guidelines exist.
Because in the moment, the kid's not going to internalize it.
They're going to be mad.
I wanted to do this, and I wanted to do that.
And they just have it in their head.
I want to play one more game.
Why can't I just play one more game?
They'll just get freaked out.
tom papa
Because what we heard was, because I said so.
joe rogan
Yes, exactly.
tom papa
There was no reason.
There was nothing behind it.
Just go to bed.
Why at 7 o'clock?
Because I said so.
All right.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, we don't put parameters on play, though, like as much.
We put parameters on, you can only have a certain amount of television time, a certain amount of video game time.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
But as far as play-play, like doing stuff, like playing in the pool or doing other stuff, I don't feel like there's any...
You could play in the pool all day.
tom papa
All day.
I'm happy for it.
joe rogan
It's interesting, right?
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
And it's probably...
They're learning more from that than anything else that they would be doing.
joe rogan
Right, but it's purely play.
But all play is not considered equal.
Like play when you're sedentary in front of a video screen and you're playing some silly video game.
tom papa
Right.
And you're just sitting there, and just your brain, to be physical, to be out, to be doing something.
joe rogan
But they do have this one game that I'll let them play for a long time.
It's this crazy dance game.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
Dance Revolution?
joe rogan
I don't know what it's called, but they dance.
tom papa
And you mimic the thing?
joe rogan
They dance to, what's her face?
Crazy.
What's Crazy's face?
Oops, I did it again.
Britney Spears.
They dance to, you better work, bitch.
You want a Maserati?
unidentified
You better work.
joe rogan
It's hilarious.
But that's exercise.
tom papa
Have you done it with them?
joe rogan
Yes.
It's funny.
I've only done it, honestly, a couple times.
They've probably played it a million times.
But you have to coordinate your movements to mirror the person on the screen.
But my instincts are to not mirror, but to do what he's doing.
If his right arm's going up, my right's going up.
Because that's how you get taught in martial arts.
unidentified
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be doing that or if I'm supposed to be just mirroring him.
Like when he lifts up his right arm, am I supposed to lift up my left arm?
Because that's the one that faces me?
Is that how you're supposed to do it?
tom papa
No.
You do whatever you see.
joe rogan
Yeah, but then you have to switch it over in your head.
Why don't you...
That arm?
Okay, I'll go with you.
I'll do this arm.
tom papa
Well, you shouldn't be high when you do this with your children.
joe rogan
That's the only way I'm going to do it.
It seems like, though, that it would be easier for all involved, if you just had the mirror, not do the same exact side of their body as your body.
tom papa
I don't know.
I've never gotten that deep because I've done it and then quickly became exhausted and just pretended I thought it was stupid so I could lay down.
joe rogan
Well, it's critical in martial arts that you, like, if you're learning something, if you prefer, like, especially kickboxing.
For most fighters, most fighters have one good side and one side that they're not so good at.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And, like, the really great fighters, like, one of the best in the world today is Terrence Crawford.
And one of the things about him is he can fight equally well from southpaw or from orthodoxy.
tom papa
Oh, really?
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
So will he switch his stance?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
He'll do whatever he wants.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
He just fucks people up.
He does whatever he wants.
I mean, he fights really top-shelf competition, too, and he's just so technical and so clever at figuring people out.
But I think he has a giant advantage in that he literally is as good a southpaw as he is at orthodox.
He can box the best boxers in the world orthodox.
unidentified
Right.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And then they just switch up southpaw on them.
He might be a little better as a southpaw, but goddamn it's so close.
It might also be that he's fucking their head up because they fought him one way and then he switches stances and starts fucking them up the other way.
tom papa
Is he born that way?
joe rogan
No, no.
It's a learned thing.
But my point would be, if you had a southpaw instructor and he was teaching you and you were mirroring him, it would be weird.
tom papa
Right, right, right.
joe rogan
If someone's teaching you something, you want to see how their body's doing it and mimic their movements.
You want to see it and mimic their movements.
You don't want to mirror it.
That would be too confusing.
Which is interesting because it seems like the mirroring would work better if it was the stupid video game.
You know, cause like, lift your arm.
unidentified
I'll do what you do.
Lift the leg.
tom papa
I'll do what you do.
joe rogan
Kickboxing or any, I think any martial arts style.
tom papa
Yeah.
No, it's messed you up.
You can't be a good dance revolutionary.
joe rogan
Someone's gotta walk you through it too.
Dance, dance, revolutionary.
I'm probably doing everything wrong.
I'm probably risking all these joints.
You know who could dance?
Like, really dance?
Fahim.
tom papa
Fahim?
joe rogan
Do you know Fahim Anwar?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
You don't know him from the store?
Is he on tomorrow?
He's on tomorrow.
He's hilarious.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
Really funny guy.
But his Instagram is filled with him dancing.
tom papa
Oh, really?
Yeah.
joe rogan
But he dances really good.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I was watching this, and I got a little self-conscious watching this.
I was like, I don't think I could do any of this.
And if I had to do this, like, watch.
Watch him dance.
I was like, if I had to do this, I would be so self-conscious that I was doing this.
Like, look, he's really good.
tom papa
Yeah.
I made a New Year's resolution this year that I was going to dance more.
Yeah.
And I haven't done it because of the same thing.
I always feel like someone, Carol Liefer once said to me, you look like a guy who's never danced in his life.
I was like, what do you mean?
I've got some flow.
joe rogan
Carol Liefer, she's fucking hilarious.
Is he in Venice?
jamie vernon
Amsterdam?
But that first thing I just showed you, Fortnite took a video from his that was six years old on his YouTube channel and just put it in the game this past week and are charging people money for it.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
And he's not making any money?
jamie vernon
Most likely not.
This has happened over and over to people with their dances.
joe rogan
Dude, look how good he dances.
tom papa
He's great.
joe rogan
He's really funny, too.
tom papa
I can't do it.
joe rogan
Really funny guy.
And a super cool guy, too.
tom papa
He's filled with joy, obviously.
You're not like an asshole if you dance like that.
joe rogan
Good point.
tom papa
Right?
Oh, for sure.
That's a happy fella.
joe rogan
That's a happy fella.
He's a super nice guy.
Super smart guy.
tom papa
Oh, cool.
joe rogan
He had some sort of a technical job, didn't he?
Wasn't he like on...
We'll figure it out.
jamie vernon
I don't know.
joe rogan
Someone told me he had some very intellectually strenuous job and then decided to bail on that to be a comedian.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which makes sense.
tom papa
That's interesting.
joe rogan
I hope that's a true story.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You never know with people, man.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
You know?
tom papa
I know.
I think that we probably could take a dance class together.
joe rogan
Dude, I don't want to learn how to dance like that.
tom papa
I'm worried about my meniscus.
My wife can really move.
joe rogan
I have a meniscus issue.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
What's that?
joe rogan
I tore something in my meniscus.
tom papa
What's the meniscus?
In your knee?
joe rogan
It's the padding in between your knee, in between your bones.
tom papa
You tore it?
joe rogan
Yeah, not that bad.
Like, it's a little tear, and I've been trying to deal with it without surgery, with stem cells.
tom papa
Oh, boy.
You're really good at kicking.
joe rogan
One of my favorite things is kicking things.
It's hard for me to not kick things for a long time.
And when I don't kick things, I just don't feel as good.
tom papa
We all have our things.
Some people dance, some people kick things.
joe rogan
I feel good when I hit that fucking bag.
I like to smoke weed.
I smoke like two or three hits.
I get to a state of mind where I just feel my tendons.
I feel my muscles and my bones.
And then I just like to fucking zone out.
I'll put on some Led Zeppelin or something like that.
And I'll just start just going off on the back.
And it becomes like you feel like you're just riding a wave of movement.
You're not even thinking about it.
You're not thinking about anything other than making sure that you don't do anything stupid in terms of launching a strike when the bag's in the wrong place where you could jam yourself or hurt yourself.
So it's like you're just flowing around the bag.
And it's just like you don't even have to hit it your hardest.
It's more like you're in a dance.
tom papa
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
And you're expressing yourself with the movements.
tom papa
But is there an age where that becomes like, I'm going to start tearing stuff a lot?
joe rogan
Well, I just turned 52. I think it's about 51. Yeah.
tom papa
It might be time to concentrate on yoga.
joe rogan
I love the yoga, too.
tom papa
Yoga's good, but it probably doesn't give you the same rush.
joe rogan
It's a different rush.
They're both great rushes, though.
Yoga's a great rush.
tom papa
Yoga's great.
joe rogan
The thing about the hitting things, though, that it leaves nothing, no violence in you.
I don't know if that's real or if that's just, I've been doing it so long that it's just a normal part of my life.
When I don't do it, I'm like a baby, and I want no aggression juice left in my body.
I want to pound it all out.
Nothing pounds it all out like hitting the bag.
Yoga just straightens your brain out.
tom papa
Yeah, it's more of a mellow thing.
joe rogan
But it straightens you out more without indulging you.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like food, right?
It's like if you were addicted to something, if you were doing it so often that you just needed to gorge and that's all you did, but you just kept getting fat because of that.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You'd have to stop.
And you would realize you'd have this urge to gorge.
So I always wonder, when I want to do it, is that my urge to gorge?
Do I just want to go fucking crazy and be self-indulgent?
Is that what it is?
Or is it that I'm really recognizing that there's a need that people have to have some explosive movements?
And that if you get rid of that need, whether for me it's running up hills is a big one.
It's one of the reasons why I like it.
It's challenging.
And it leaves me completely spent.
And I feel like I'm a nicer person.
I feel like I feel nicer.
I want to be nicer to people.
tom papa
So that's not an aggressive hitting thing, though.
joe rogan
But it's explosive.
It's just, wah, because you're going up this fucking hill.
Yeah.
There are heavy hills out here.
tom papa
Would you feel the same way getting off of a treadmill?
No.
Or like when you do the elliptical?
joe rogan
Yeah, that's great.
I mean, that feels great.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But there's something about an actual physical hill that's outside in nature.
You feel like, what if something was chasing me?
Can I get away?
How long can I do this for?
What if I have to catch somebody?
How could I get them?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, what if, you know, horrible things happen if I don't reach the top of this hill?
tom papa
Yeah, I always loved running through the woods.
joe rogan
Ooh, scary.
tom papa
But it's exciting.
There's something primal about it.
There's something more at play than just, I'm just running down the street.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
But I think that...
joe rogan
I have to write something down or I'm going to forget it.
tom papa
I think...
joe rogan
I have this thing about the woods that I keep forgetting to do.
tom papa
I think that what you're describing in having the kick is...
I equate it to stand-up.
It's like I'm no longer the same person when I'm not doing stand-up for several days.
And I think it's because I learned it.
I created this addiction.
I created this thing that I no longer am the same person without it.
joe rogan
You became a junkie.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
We're all for sure laugh junkies.
I think we are so lucky that regular people don't know what it feels like to get a big laugh.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Or they would do it.
joe rogan
No one would do any other job.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
They'd be like, fuck these other jobs.
I want to kill.
tom papa
I think about that every time I walk through Vegas.
And you see all these people like...
Drinking at the tables, and they're trying to get a rush.
They're trying to get something.
And you walk around with this secret in your mind that, like, I'm getting something so much more potent than you're going to get out here just from being on stage.
joe rogan
Joey Diaz did this bit the other night in the original room, and it was so hilarious.
It was really fresh, and you could tell because it was making him laugh.
And he was laughing.
You know Joey's got that, ha ha!
Fucking dying laughing, and I'm in the back of the room, and I'm like, you can't get any happier than that.
That's as happy as a person can get.
In those bursts of moments, other than the love of your children, that is as happy as you can ever get.
tom papa
Yeah, a new line, and it's working.
joe rogan
The only thing that eclipses it is the love.
Family love, people you care about, that's the only thing that eclipses it.
tom papa
No, you're right.
joe rogan
But everybody can get that.
Everybody can get the family love.
So everybody can get the best kind of love.
tom papa
Yes.
But it all takes work.
unidentified
Oh, fuck yeah.
tom papa
But I think when you have...
I mean, it could be so small, too.
It could be like one line that you added to an old joke that works.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
tom papa
Your whole night is different.
Your whole drive home is like, yes!
Where if you don't try something and you just kind of go through it, it's not as satisfying.
So you constantly have to keep pushing because you need that more potent rush.
joe rogan
But the other side of it is, if I have a set and everything's amazing except one new line that I tried that ate shit...
unidentified
That one new line will haunt me for days.
joe rogan
You're like, why did I say it that way?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Idiot.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
It's like you're managing this weird thing.
You know, like your act is this weird thing that you're producing and managing it.
tom papa
Yeah.
Oh, constantly.
joe rogan
Constantly.
tom papa
Constantly in your head, constantly tweaking, constantly trying to express, trying to...
Have something that you think, oh, this is...
It's almost like the cockier you are, it's so rare when you feel like this is going to be a great one.
And you bring it up and it works.
You know what I mean?
It never matches expectations.
But if you think, maybe this will work.
Those I love because they surprise you.
It's like...
This is funnier than even I thought.
joe rogan
Yes, those are interesting, right?
The setup is actually the funniest part of the joke.
People are dying laughing at something in the setup, and you're like, oh yeah, okay, I see.
Oh my god, why didn't I see that?
And then you're like, yeah, that's funnier.
That's the funnier part of it.
But that's one of the weird things about having to do it in front of people.
You have to do it in front of people.
There's no other way.
You can't really practice stand-up in a vacuum.
tom papa
No, I know.
Back to the premise thing.
Chris Rock said that to me once.
He said, that's the greatest secret in comedy.
He goes, it's the setup.
That's the real joke.
He said, the punchline, that's kind of icing.
But you're nailing the joke in the setup.
joe rogan
Yeah, and if you fuck up a setup, even if the rest of the joke is good, they always remember that fucked up part of the setup.
unidentified
Yeah, why do you say it like that?
tom papa
Why do you say that?
joe rogan
It's such a weird little dance you play with your head.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're trying to put it all in line and get all the bits together correctly.
tom papa
How big was that crowd you played?
I saw on Instagram this weekend.
joe rogan
Oh, that was in Portland, Portland, Oregon.
It was big.
tom papa
It looked huge.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was like 10,000 people.
tom papa
Now, what is that doing to your act and your performance?
joe rogan
You have to slow down a little bit because it's so loud.
You have to give them a little bit more time because I went to see Louis Black once.
I didn't even realize this, and I had actually done theaters already, and I was even doing the very theater that he was in.
And Joey Diaz and I were sitting in the back of this big theater that Louis Black was playing in, and we watched him.
And he would hit a punchline, and all these people around us would be laughing really loud.
And then he'd hit the tag, and I couldn't hear the tag, because there were so many people laughing at the punchline.
I was like, oh.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It really cemented in my head.
I was like, oh, this is a whole different feeling for the audience member than a club.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Because one of the crazy things about the original room.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Or a small room like that.
When you hit a punchline, when everybody's laughing, you can hit a tag and they're going to hear it perfectly clearly.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because there's not enough people's laughter to overwhelm the sound of the speakers.
tom papa
Yeah, view on the microphone.
joe rogan
But when there's 10,000 fucking people...
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You gotta give that one a little bit of air.
tom papa
Let it come back.
joe rogan
Yeah, you gotta give those bits a little more air.
But you adjust quickly.
tom papa
But do you feel...
Are you happy doing it?
Yes, it's fun.
The only thing close is when I worked with Seinfeld, and we did one of the Fox theaters, and that was a little over 5,000.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Is that the Detroit Fox Theater?
No, it was Atlanta.
And that started to feel a little out of my control.
joe rogan
How many Fox Theaters are there, by the way?
There might be a million of them.
tom papa
There's Fox, St. Louis, Atlanta.
joe rogan
But is it the same company?
tom papa
Yeah, it was the same company.
joe rogan
Oh, wow.
I thought maybe it was just a bunch of people naming their theater the Fox.
tom papa
No, no, no, no, no.
It was like 20th Century Fox.
joe rogan
If you decide I'm the Salmon Theater, do you own the Salmon Theater?
tom papa
Yeah.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
How can you own salmon?
tom papa
You can own salmon.
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
Now, fuck off.
tom papa
Come on.
joe rogan
Like, if you have a band, you call your band Salmon.
You can't name your band after shit that everybody knows the words to, or knows what it is.
tom papa
Right.
A part of nature.
joe rogan
It just seems weird.
tom papa
It's gotta be like Salmon Work Boot.
joe rogan
You can't name...
Could you name your...
Like, if you named your beef...
If you had a band, you named it Beef.
You don't own Beef.
tom papa
Beef.
joe rogan
You can't say that.
tom papa
You could trademark Beef.
joe rogan
Beef for the name of a band?
It's just such a common name.
It's like you can't own it with anything else.
tom papa
But you know what?
Does that make sense?
Yeah, but I looked up yesterday, I was online, I was writing, and I looked up fun.
Just the word fun.
joe rogan
Somebody owns that?
tom papa
And there's a band, Fun.
And everything that came up was Fun, the band.
joe rogan
Fuck off.
You can't have that name.
unidentified
War.
joe rogan
Yeah, but that was a long time ago.
That was when they were first making bands.
tom papa
Good God!
joe rogan
What it is we're doing for?
Absolutely nothing!
Say it again!
Dude.
You know, we were at that Shoreline Amphitheater, and they have all these posters on the wall of different shows, and one of them was...
It was Jimi Hendrix and...
Fuck, what was the other band?
tom papa
Never heard of it.
joe rogan
Some other insane band.
Oh, Jimi Hendrix...
Fuck, was it The Birds?
It was The Birds and another band, but it was so crazy, like, looking at this thing, like, wow, like, this was a real show that you could have caught back then.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You could have walked into this theater.
tom papa
And seen Hendrix.
joe rogan
And you could have watched Hendrix.
tom papa
It's crazy.
joe rogan
That it was right there.
I'm like, wow, and that night, he was there.
So they were all in front, like, laughing and joking around.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
And someone snapped his picture.
tom papa
Jeez Louise.
joe rogan
Sometimes a photo and you go, oh yeah, that's a photo from 1973. Yeah.
No big deal.
And sometimes one hits you and you go, whoa.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's Ronnie Van Zandt.
tom papa
Right, exactly.
joe rogan
I go, what would it be like to be around that guy?
tom papa
Yeah, that's Miles Davis talking to Mick Jagger.
unidentified
Jesus Christ.
joe rogan
Yeah, like someone was there with a fucking camera when that went down.
tom papa
I know.
It's crazy.
So I think that...
Back to the Fox thing.
joe rogan
How big was it?
5,000?
tom papa
It was a little over 5,000.
And that started to seem like something different from even like 4,000.
It seemed like you're still in that club kind of theater back and forth.
At 5, it started to feel like, ooh, this is...
This is bigger than I can control.
joe rogan
Right.
tom papa
Do you feel like you can control it in 10,000?
joe rogan
We want to have a good time.
Yeah.
tom papa
But do you feel like, you know what I mean?
joe rogan
We did 25,000 in Tacoma.
tom papa
Did you really?
joe rogan
Dave and I did, yeah.
That's crazy.
tom papa
That's crazy.
joe rogan
That's a lot of people.
It feels insane.
tom papa
It has to feel insane.
joe rogan
Oh my god, it's a fucking roar of humans.
But it's fun.
You know, it's like everybody was there to have a good time.
Like, everybody's there for the same reason.
And people keep it together remarkably well.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
If you really stop and think about live events, like how well people...
Like, we don't get enough credit.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
For every nutty person who does something crazy.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's so many people that can keep it together.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
It's really unfortunate that we view people the way we do sometimes because we concentrate on every single bad thing that happens in the news.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a lot of bad things that happen in the news, but at scale, if you just have the scale of people, I think we're looking at it completely skewed.
I think most people are really fine.
Most people are cool.
unidentified
They are.
tom papa
Most people are nice.
Right.
because it's so spectacular that it scares the daylights out of everybody but i think the same thing it's like okay so this horrible thing happened on this night but think about how many people were out that night right think about how many people were filling amphitheaters and arenas and small shops and small clubs i I mean, just in America.
Millions!
And everybody's cool.
Everyone's getting along.
Everybody's doing the right thing.
You're right.
There is definitely a lot of cool people, but it's the spectacular.
It's like a plane crash, right?
There hasn't been a major plane crash in the US in a long time.
But when it happens, it's so mind-blowing because something fell from the sky.
It's a big deal.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a bigger deal than a train.
A train crash that kills the same amount of people doesn't shock us as much.
tom papa
No.
It's on the ground.
You know what I mean?
It's like, that thing fell from the sky.
What happened?
We've all fantasized about how horrible that would be.
It has a big impact.
It has a real big impact.
No, but that's amazing.
There were 25,000 like-minded people just coming to laugh.
joe rogan
They wanted to have a good time.
tom papa
That's amazing.
joe rogan
That's the cool thing about even when you're at the improv or the comedy store.
There's a group of people that comes to have a good time.
There's always occasionally someone who's drunk and doesn't get it and they want to yell out and ruin things.
But most of the clubs in town now are good at getting rid of those people.
tom papa
Yeah.
No, they're really good at it.
joe rogan
But the vast majority of people are cool.
Yeah.
Vast majority.
tom papa
Yeah.
No, it's great.
joe rogan
But when someone isn't cool, it's so disturbing.
tom papa
It's so obvious.
joe rogan
That we think about people in that regard.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, we think about people like as...
tom papa
No, yeah.
joe rogan
The worst possible scenario.
Like, did you see Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?
tom papa
I did.
joe rogan
So those flower kids, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
The murderous flower, the Manson kids.
tom papa
The Manson kids, yeah.
joe rogan
That's like worst case scenario.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Sometimes we think about people just on, you know, just because that's a possibility.
It's such a glaring one.
But it gets a disproportionate amount of energy and interest.
Because for the most part, most people...
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Are super fine.
Most people are great.
Most people are friendly.
Most people just want to have a good time in this life.
They're not assholes.
tom papa
Right, exactly.
And even the Manson kids, there's probably a couple of them that were fun.
joe rogan
I bet there was.
The girl who took off.
The girl who was like, hey, I'll be right back.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
That girl in real life did take off.
No, who is it?
tom papa
In real life?
joe rogan
Who?
tom papa
Do you watch Stranger Things?
unidentified
Yes.
tom papa
She's Ethan Hawke and Uma Thurman's daughter.
joe rogan
What?
tom papa
Yes!
joe rogan
Wow.
tom papa
Yes.
She was the one in the two who worked in the ice cream shop.
joe rogan
Oh, that's crazy.
tom papa
Yeah, that's her.
joe rogan
Okay, what I thought you were going to say, the actual Manson kid that did take off.
tom papa
Because there wasn't...
joe rogan
What's that?
jamie vernon
I thought you meant the one in real life.
tom papa
Oh, in real life.
joe rogan
Yeah, you confuse the shit out of everybody.
tom papa
I'm so sorry.
jamie vernon
Did you see that story going around?
When we were talking about it the other day, that story with Bruce Lee that was loosely based in reality had to do with Gene LaBelle.
joe rogan
Oh, Jesus Christ.
jamie vernon
He was a stuntman on the Green Hornet or something like that.
joe rogan
Okay, well, let me tell you this then.
jamie vernon
He said it wasn't real, though.
joe rogan
Let me tell you this thing, because talking from Gene, Gene was always...
I've known Gene for years.
He's always super respectful about Bruce Lee.
But he's also...
Okay, let me put it this way.
If that actually did happen that way, if Bruce Lee fought Gene LaBelle, Gene LaBelle would grab a hold of him and obliterate his brain on the concrete 100 out of 100 times.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Let me just say that.
So, I'm not talking about the movie.
And there was a thing in the movie where I felt like they made Bruce Lee seem like a buffoon.
And I'm like, ooh, I don't think he was ever really like that.
This is like kind of an important historical figure for martial arts.
And I get it's just a crazy Quentin Tarantino movie.
And I get it.
The end of the movie did not, I mean, spoiler alert, I don't want to say what happened, but he takes liberties for entertainment's sake with a lot of different things.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But with that one, I was like, ooh, I'm just going to have some random dude that is a stuntman and Bruce Lee's a buffoon to him and he kicks his ass on the set.
But with that said, if that was a real-life event with Gene LaBelle and Bruce Lee, Gene LaBelle would crush him.
tom papa
So Gene LaBelle could have...
joe rogan
He's a gorilla.
tom papa
That would have been him in that scene.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, but it would have been quick.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It would have been a different thing, man.
He's a gorilla.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
I mean, he's like a judo champion with a severe arsenal of neck cranks and joint locks, and he is strong like a fucking bear.
I mean, dude, in his prime, he was a tank of a man.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Far bigger than Bruce Lee.
tom papa
Oh, wait.
Bruce Lee was small, right?
joe rogan
He was a small guy.
Look, Bruce Lee was an innovator in martial arts and one of my personal heroes.
He's like the most important early innovator because he was the first guy to think that you should combine the best elements of all these different styles.
When I was coming up, man, I was doing Taekwondo, and you were brainwashed to think that Taekwondo was the best martial art.
Everything else was bullshit, and you shouldn't even practice it.
So if I was practicing other stuff, like I was doing some boxing, I'd get some frowns from some people.
It was like a thing.
And if you were in some schools that were less open-minded than mine, you know, my school was a little more practical than some of them, but some of them, they would say, Kung Fu or death.
Like, all they wanted to do was fucking Kung Fu.
They're doing this shit in the park.
And you couldn't say, hey, man, a wrestler's going to grab ahold of you, and he's going to just pound you into a fucking tree, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it.
They're just pure...
There's Gene LaBelle who was in a bunch of different movies as a stuntman back in the day.
tom papa
Oh yeah, that looks like Green Hornet.
joe rogan
That's him.
jamie vernon
Yeah, they became friends.
joe rogan
They were very good friends.
And he had nothing but good things to say about Bruce Lee.
But he said he taught Bruce Lee a lot.
Like some of the moves that Bruce Lee used in Arm Bar in one of the early scenes in Game of Death.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
That was from Gene LaBelle.
Gene LaBelle, I guarantee you, helped him here.
But look at this.
If Gene LaBelle really wanted to grab a hold of Bruce Lee, Bruce Lee would be unconscious, as would I, as would many, many, many other trained martial artists.
tom papa
Not Jamie.
joe rogan
Bruce Lee was a fantastic martial artist.
And like I said, one of the most innovative guys ever.
We don't even realize how much his style had a gigantic effect on making...
Untold millions of people sign up for martial arts classes, including me.
tom papa
Right.
And part of it was because he was a movie star, right?
He had the looks and the charisma that allowed him to bring it onto film and show everybody.
joe rogan
He had everything.
He had philosophy.
He had a deep understanding of all these different martial arts.
And he had the courage to try to combine them, which was unheard of at the time.
It got him exercised from a lot of these kung fu-like circles.
tom papa
Where did he learn it?
joe rogan
He learned it from a bunch of different places.
I mean, he learned it from books.
He learned it in China.
He learned different things from different people.
I know he worked with a lot of different martial artists, including Gene LaBelle, who, of course, was a...
What's Gene LaBelle's judo credentials?
I guarantee he was a national champion.
I think he was a world champion.
But he was...
Whatever he was, he's a fucking gorilla.
tom papa
I feel like Kung Fu was more popular earlier.
joe rogan
Well, the UFC changed all that shit.
tom papa
Yeah.
jamie vernon
Nice, Dan.
joe rogan
Traditional judo.
But what is his competition accomplishments?
tom papa
Blue belt?
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
Yellow belt?
joe rogan
But if that makes sense, that they kind of base it on him, because he really was a legendary stuntman as well.
tom papa
Wouldn't that be cool, though, if Tarantino had the inside scoop on that story?
joe rogan
Yeah, but Bruce Lee and him were friends.
I guarantee you, like, that didn't go down like that.
They didn't have a fight.
tom papa
Right, right, right.
joe rogan
And if they did have a fight, Jesus Christ.
It would have been horrific.
That guy's a fucking gorilla.
Judo people are different, man.
They have a different...
Their core...
tom papa
Judo?
joe rogan
Yeah, their core is so goddamn strong.
There's only a few Judo guys that I've ever rolled with that are of consequence.
Like, Kyle Parisi was one of them.
I think when I was a blue belt, I rolled with him and he was like rolling with a chimpanzee.
It just threw me around.
unidentified
I was like, Jesus Christ!
joe rogan
It's so disheartening when you grapple with like a really good wrestler or a really good judo person.
They just have this insane ability to manipulate bodies.
tom papa
It's crazy.
joe rogan
Okay, it says he won the National Heavyweight Judo Championship and the USA Overall Judo Championship title.
So he won the National Heavyweight title.
And he went on to win both the heavyweight and overall champion in 1955 as well.
So that's AAU, National Amateur Athletics Union, I think.
That's AAU, I think that stands for.
So that's a big-time judo title, especially for back then.
In 1954, there probably wasn't that many judo championships.
It was probably a fairly recent thing.
tom papa
Where's judo come from?
joe rogan
Japan.
tom papa
Japan?
joe rogan
Yeah, Japan Jiu-Jitsu does too.
Even Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu really came from Japan because Count Maeda, who was this traveling Judo master, he taught people in Brazil.
He taught the Gracies.
So the Gracie family in Brazil, they took that Jiu-Jitsu and they refined it and made it much more emphasis on submissions because of Carlos Gracie and Elio Gracie and Carlson Gracie and the early masters.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Really amazing, amazing story of one, really one family that kind of revolutionized the way people fight on the ground.
tom papa
And they just all focused on, right, I remember.
joe rogan
Yeah, they just were, they just were badasses.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they would just fight each other all the time.
And they were trying to figure out what works best.
And they just got it down to a fucking science.
jamie vernon
Here's the story about, from Gene LaBelle.
joe rogan
Okay, make this a little bigger.
Can I read this?
Because LaBelle said that when he got on the set, Dobbins would put Lee in a headlock or something, so LaBelle went up and grabbed Lee.
He started making all those noises that he became famous for, LaBelle said, but he didn't try to counter me, so I think he was more surprised than anything else.
So he probably just grabbed him, got him in a headlock.
Then LaBelle lifted Lee onto his back, what's called a fireman's carry, and ran around the set with him.
He said, put me down or I'll kill you, Lee screamed.
He said, I can't put you down or you'll kill me, LaBelle said, holding Lee there as long as he dared before putting him down saying, hey Bruce, don't kill me.
Just kidding, champ.
Back on his feet again, Lee didn't kill LaBelle.
Instead, Lee recognized his lack of grappling was a deficiency in Jeet Kune Do style of martial arts that he was developing.
See, so there wasn't really a fight.
But this is what I'm telling you.
LaBelle was so fucking powerful and such an amazing judo guy that if it was a fight, it would have been really quick.
So if that's who he was supposed to be portraying in the movie, if they showed that the Brad Pitt character was some judo champion that became a martial artist later, okay, maybe.
tom papa
This guy was like a roofer.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, he was a beast.
That was a fun part of the movie.
tom papa
Yeah, it was great.
joe rogan
I fucking liked that movie, man.
tom papa
Oh, I love that movie.
And it's like split camps on it, just in my circle of friends that I run into or whatever.
People either loved it and feel like they could have hung with it for two more hours, or people are like, what's the point?
What was the story?
I don't get it.
joe rogan
Those I don't get it guys, keep a real close eye on them.
Treat them like they're Jeffrey Epstein you're trying to keep them alive.
Those people, I don't understand their thinking.
tom papa
I don't either.
It was so great.
joe rogan
How could you not have enjoyed that?
It was a wild ass movie.
Were you not entertained?
There was a lot of times in that movie I was like, fuck, whoa, ah!
It's a great movie.
tom papa
I could have just hung with it forever.
And especially being out here in LA. It was just like that cool.
Musso and Franks.
joe rogan
Yes.
They didn't even have to do anything to make it look different.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
It's so great.
That place looks like it's from 1969. Wow.
tom papa
Aren't we supposed to go?
joe rogan
Yeah, we're supposed to go.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You and me and Joey, we've been talking about it forever.
tom papa
We gotta do it.
joe rogan
Well, I'm in town this week.
There's a UFC in Anaheim this weekend.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
I'm in L.A. Yeah, I'm in L.A. all week.
tom papa
I'm in L.A. too.
unidentified
Crazy!
tom papa
This is the first two weekends in a row that I've been home, I think, in a year and a half.
joe rogan
Pull up Tom Papa's Instagram and take a look at that sweet elk meat.
Did you put it up on your Instagram?
tom papa
No, I didn't.
unidentified
You didn't?
joe rogan
Here, I'll send it to you.
Or, I'll send it to Jamie.
tom papa
Alright, you send it to Jamie.
Oh my god, that was so good.
joe rogan
Dude, that shit's ridiculous.
tom papa
That's why I'm here today, because I've run out of elk.
joe rogan
You cooked it so well.
Hold on.
I'm into food porn, obviously.
tom papa
Yeah, I was going to bring you bread, of course, but...
joe rogan
Here's an annoying thing about Apple.
tom papa
This was a surprise.
joe rogan
If you want to take a photograph from a text message, you can't search that person's name, because otherwise you can't get the photo.
You know what I'm saying?
Like if I search your name, I have to actually send you a text.
Unless I'm doing something totally wrong.
jamie vernon
Swipe down when you open up the messages app.
joe rogan
Swipe down.
jamie vernon
Yeah.
tom papa
Look at that sweet, sweet bread.
jamie vernon
The search bar pops up.
joe rogan
That does look sweet.
unidentified
Okay.
tom papa
But it was just...
I couldn't give it to you.
It was just a little too stale.
And I'm like, I don't want to...
jamie vernon
Appreciate it then.
tom papa
Yeah.
Next time.
joe rogan
You had stale bread?
How many days does an actual real bread go before it's stale?
tom papa
About four days.
joe rogan
Wow, that's so crazy.
tom papa
So I make two at a time, so it depends how much the ladies are eating.
joe rogan
Wow.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Jamie, I just sent you...
tom papa
I just sent it to you again.
joe rogan
...a photo of the meat.
tom papa
This was so good.
joe rogan
I just can't believe you cooked that perfectly on a grill.
That's amazing, man.
tom papa
Gas grill on high.
unidentified
Whew.
tom papa
And I flipped it four times.
joe rogan
What cut was that?
Was that a roast?
tom papa
That was the tri-tip.
joe rogan
Oh, wow.
That looks good.
tom papa
Oh, so good.
joe rogan
Goddamn, that looks good.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
Dude, you're a really good cook.
tom papa
Thank you.
joe rogan
You nailed that.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Tri-tip's a tricky one, because there's not a lot of fat in a tri-tip.
tom papa
No, it's not.
You don't do it right.
I remarked at that that there weren't a lot of flames coming up.
It wasn't like dripping fat into the thing.
joe rogan
It's a different cut.
tom papa
But I just did it by feel, and it was like, you don't want it to be too stiff.
And then he just pulled it off, and it was so nice.
I still have it waiting for me in the fridge.
unidentified
Oh, shit.
joe rogan
That's A-plus right there.
tom papa
Well, it's good stuff.
So you got another one, you said?
Does that mean you hunted again?
joe rogan
I got a deer.
tom papa
You got a deer.
joe rogan
Yeah, I got a deer in Lanai.
I'm going to give you some Axis deer, too.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
tom papa
Oh, boy.
joe rogan
Oh, boy.
unidentified
What's the taste difference?
joe rogan
It's different.
It's definitely different.
It's really delicious.
They're one of the fastest deer species on earth.
They're crazy fast.
tom papa
How big are they?
joe rogan
About 130, 150 pounds.
tom papa
Like Jamie's size.
joe rogan
No, Jamie's bigger than that.
Yeah, like Tony Hinchcliffe-sized.
tom papa
Right.
Oh, really?
That's little.
joe rogan
Tony's like, hey!
tom papa
I'm here for meat!
I don't want ligaments and wise-ass attitude.
joe rogan
To put it in perspective, you get about 400 pounds from an elk and you get about 40 pounds from a deer.
tom papa
Oh my god.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Definitely very different.
tom papa
The elk is so good.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
tom papa
I don't buy, you know, last time you gave it, you gave me a bunch.
It's just been in the freezer.
To go and buy a steak at Gelson's or whatever?
Or Ralph's?
It's not happening.
joe rogan
Well, I'm glad you enjoy it, man.
tom papa
It's so good.
joe rogan
It's so cool to see that you like it.
It's so good for you.
tom papa
You feel good.
joe rogan
Yes.
Right?
Crazy, right?
That's not...
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's not just a placebo effect.
tom papa
I don't think so.
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
I didn't get in the game to feel good.
I just wasn't...
Because it was delicious.
joe rogan
So many hunters say that.
tom papa
Yeah?
joe rogan
So many hunters say that you eat it and it gives you this boost of energy.
You feel energized.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because it's so nutrient-dense.
It's so dark.
I mean, it's an animal that their main foe is wolves.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Mountain lions.
I mean, they're out there hustling.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
If you can get a hold of that meat, that's a meat of champions.
tom papa
It's good stuff.
joe rogan
They scream.
They scream at each other.
I mean, you're eating like a mystical beast.
tom papa
Yeah, that's what it feels like.
I respect it.
joe rogan
But when you get it in a store, a lot of times it's from farms.
It's from a farm in New Zealand, most likely.
I think they probably can do it at some places in the United States, maybe some places in Canada where they commercially farm elk.
But most elk that you get, you actually get from New Zealand.
tom papa
Oh.
joe rogan
Which is really interesting.
New Zealand's a weird place, man.
tom papa
Yeah, I've never been.
joe rogan
A lot of the lamb you get is from New Zealand.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah, dude, New Zealand is really kind of crazy because they don't have any predators.
Everything was brought over by a bunch of rich European guys.
They're like, wouldn't it be great if we had sheep over here?
They just brought sheep.
tom papa
Wouldn't it be great if we had stags?
joe rogan
And so they brought over stags.
tom papa
I don't see an antelope.
joe rogan
Have you ever seen a red stag?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Beautiful, beautiful animal.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah, they're all over the place in New Zealand.
They brought them over there.
There's literally no large mammals in New Zealand, and they brought all of them over there.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
See if you can get a photograph of a red stag, New Zealand red stag.
They're beautiful animals.
It's kind of like an elk in a lot of ways.
It looks like it's like the cousin of an elk.
They have these gorgeous, gorgeous antlers, and they're just these big, crazy...
Beautiful animals.
tom papa
Do you have another trip coming up?
joe rogan
I've never been to New Zealand.
tom papa
Are you going for elk again?
joe rogan
Yeah, I'll be going in the fall.
I always go in the fall.
tom papa
Oh, that's nice.
joe rogan
See, you got a photo of one?
jamie vernon
It's Scottish, it says.
joe rogan
Okay, that's a Scottish one.
Don't they have a New Zealand red stag?
jamie vernon
I didn't tie this tag for a red stag.
joe rogan
Okay, well, that's the dark side.
Click on that photo.
No, no, no.
Okay, that's good, too.
And the one below it.
Let me see the one below that.
It's huge.
Okay, this is the dark side.
See, okay, now what this is, this is a New Zealand elk that's grown in a place where they grow them like this.
So it's probably a high fence operation, and they probably feed these things.
So they probably have like big bundles of food, and the more food an animal like that gets, the more impressive a rack they'll develop.
tom papa
That rack is insane.
joe rogan
Yeah.
There's actually a really amazing podcast about it.
Oh, see...
That looks like it's caught up in ropes or something.
What the hell is happening there?
tom papa
It's like in a tree or something.
joe rogan
What the fuck is going on there?
tom papa
That looks like a vine.
jamie vernon
Yeah, it must have got caught on something.
tom papa
It looks like a vine.
jamie vernon
Something else wrapped around in there.
joe rogan
That's so weird.
I really don't understand what that is.
jamie vernon
That's why I clicked on it.
tom papa
It's very abstract.
joe rogan
So it looks like the antlers are wrapped up in vines and then they shot it and left the vines on the head.
tom papa
They could have taken the vines off, just out of respect.
joe rogan
Out of respect.
That does happen, though.
Like, sometimes deer will get, like, barbed wire and shit stuck in their antlers.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Or bale wire.
They'll get that shit stuck in their antlers.
They'll get it trapped around their legs and shit.
tom papa
It's terrible.
Oh, man, that's awful.
joe rogan
People always catch deer, or find deer, rather, that have been caught in fences.
It's like they're jumping through a fence and it gets twisted around and their leg gets stuck.
Yeah.
tom papa
That's not cool.
unidentified
It's terrible.
tom papa
That's not cool.
joe rogan
Oh, it's a drag.
It's a drag.
They find them there.
Coyotes find them and they just eat them alive.
tom papa
You know what's really good, too, is the sausage.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, the sausage is fantastic.
Anyway, so that's why those antlers are so crazy.
tom papa
Just because if they were in the wild, that's not happening.
joe rogan
You wouldn't get enough food.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
I was going to say that there's a great podcast called The Meat Eater with my friend Steve Rinella.
There's an episode where they're talking about that.
That's out right now.
Let me find out which one it is.
tom papa
It's so much better.
joe rogan
Because it's pretty interesting.
tom papa
I just emotionally and mentally feel so much better eating it than I do knowing that something came from a big factory farm.
joe rogan
It's called Episode 180, Teeth, Horns, and Claws.
and he sits down with a wildlife biologist, and they're talking about why animals grow things, why they grow antlers and why they let go of their antlers, and how you could take animals from one area where it looks like they have poor genetics because their antlers are small and they and how you could take animals from one area where it looks like they have poor genetics because their antlers are small So it just seems to be a direct correlation between their diet, Right.
And how much their antlers grow.
So what they do with these animals, most likely, and I don't know how all of them do it, because they probably vary, but I know in the United States, when they have deer farms, they feed them a super high-protein diet out of these feeders.
And so these animals eat this crazy high-protein diet, and their antlers just go fucking...
Filled with minerals.
Antler bone is a weird thing.
It grows faster than any known bone on earth.
tom papa
I am.
joe rogan
So when you see a deer's antlers and they're gigantic, that deer might have just grown those over the last three months.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yes.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
That is crazy.
Especially an elk antler in particular, because they let go of their antlers very late.
tom papa
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
Like, antlers fall off.
Once they get done having sex, they don't need the antlers anymore, because the antlers are mostly to, like, show dudes...
tom papa
That's what I was going to ask.
Like, a bird?
Yeah.
It's floral.
It's to attract...
joe rogan
But it also helps them in fights with each other.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Because, like, the males will fight.
And they wind up killing each other.
unidentified
For the lady.
joe rogan
Yeah, they kill each other all the time.
Especially elk.
You'll find elks with, like, puncture wounds in their sides where they just jab each other.
Yeah.
One of them will trip and the other one will run his fucking antlers through its body cavity.
tom papa
So when these people are feeding them this high-protein stuff, is it for the antlers or it's just for them to...
joe rogan
It's for the antlers.
tom papa
It is?
joe rogan
Yes.
It's so they develop these freakish antlers.
tom papa
Because then it's a trophy?
joe rogan
Yes.
But there's two schools of thought on this.
There's people that think that's great, look at the antlers.
And then there's people who are the purest, people that would be in the Steve Rinelli camp that would find it grotesque.
And they would find direct evidence of a person meddling with it.
tom papa
Yeah, that's what it kind of feels like.
joe rogan
Right, like almost akin, in a way, to an animal that's wearing a collar.
That thing is so obviously manipulated by a person.
In the wild, they don't have squirrely crazy shit that grows all over the place.
If you find one in the wild that has anything remotely like that, it's a freak of all freaks.
They do exist in places that have amazing food.
tom papa
And it would be more special because it's out there and it just happened.
joe rogan
Whereas these all take place inside a fence.
It's kind of sketch.
tom papa
Yeah, it's a little sketch.
A little meddlesome.
joe rogan
It's troublesome because they also have to hunt them, right?
So one of the problems is they will do these purges where they fly over in helicopters with certain species and they just gun them down and they leave them to rot.
tom papa
Why?
joe rogan
Because they have too many of them.
They're devastating to the local flora, all the different plants, and they'll just eat through everything.
tom papa
There's no predators, so it's just going...
joe rogan
They don't want to import wolves and start some crazy gang war.
tom papa
That sounds fun.
Dude.
There's a coyote...
Coyotes in my neighborhood are going nuts right now.
They ripped apart a cat, three of them on one cat, and somebody else lost one with two coyotes.
They gang up together, and they go after these...
My cat is staying inside a lot these days.
joe rogan
Cats have a terrible life in the Hollywood area.
tom papa
Yeah, it's good.
joe rogan
Yeah, cats are in real trouble with these coyotes.
They're everywhere.
tom papa
I know, they're tricky.
joe rogan
And they smell your cat.
They know where your cat is.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They know when your cat's there, they know when your cat's not there.
You don't even have to see them.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Oh yeah.
The wind's coming down.
Like say if your cat's in your backyard and there's a coyote a mile away on the street.
And the wind hits that cat and blows towards that coyote, that coyote might be able to smell it.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
They can smell some insane amount of distance.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
And, you know, if the wind is blowing right, so it's blowing towards them, they can pick up these little things.
The next thing you know, they're knowing that you got something in your yard.
tom papa
Jeez Louise.
joe rogan
I wonder how, with the effective distance, the way it was related to me was like you should consider the way a coyote could smell or a bloodhound or any kind of crazy dog, the way you smell a skunk.
Do you know how you smell a skunk?
Like a skunk could be like blocks away, but you fucking smell it so strong.
You can smell it like almost a mile away maybe.
Maybe a half mile?
tom papa
Yeah, probably a little less.
joe rogan
That's how dogs are, with everything.
tom papa
With everything.
joe rogan
With your feet.
You can smell your feet that far away.
tom papa
Poor puppy.
joe rogan
Imagine they could smell another dog taking a leak a block away.
Like, what?
That motherfucker!
tom papa
Isn't it funny when you're hanging with your dog and all of a sudden their head goes up?
joe rogan
Oh my god.
tom papa
It's just purely out of smelling something in the distance?
joe rogan
Yeah, I was taking my dog out today and it was amazing the stuff he stops for.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
What the fuck is going on with this bush?
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
I just freak out.
unidentified
What the fuck is he smells, man?
joe rogan
Are you smelling this?
Like, I have zero idea what he's smelling.
tom papa
Dude, there was a possum here five hours ago.
joe rogan
That's what they say about bears.
That bears can not only smell you, they can smell you hours later and know how long it was that you passed through.
So know whether or not it's worth going after you.
unidentified
Jeez.
tom papa
Bears are the best.
joe rogan
They have multiple, I think...
I want to say a bear's nose is nine times stronger than a bloodhound's.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
Yes.
I think that's the case.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, I think it's like nine times stronger than a bloodhound's.
tom papa
That's amazing.
joe rogan
Yeah, so think about it saying a bloodhound's nose is...
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
See if that's true.
What does it say, Jeremy?
tom papa
That's why they're so manic.
jamie vernon
I was looking at smell ranges and I typed in bear smell range.
It says it can smell a carcass from up to 20 miles away.
tom papa
Jesus Christ.
Wow!
20 miles?
joe rogan
Yeah, let's bring those back.
What a good idea, you fucking assholes.
You know, California used to have a lot of them.
tom papa
Grizzlies?
joe rogan
Yeah, man.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
We killed them all.
Or not us, but people in the 1800s.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
That's our state flag, bro.
tom papa
And pushed them up north?
joe rogan
Not pushed them off.
They murdered them.
There's no pushing.
They killed them all.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
Yeah, the last time a guy died at the hands of a grizzly bear that was documented in California was a guy, I think his name was Stephen Levesque, and there's a town up on the way to Bakersfield.
Have you ever been to Bakersfield?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You ever been to Bakersfield?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's great out there.
tom papa
It is nice out there.
joe rogan
I like it out there.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
Fun people.
tom papa
It's got that cool desert vibe.
joe rogan
You're in the country somehow.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But anyway, on the way up there, there's a town called Levesque, and Levesque was named after the last man to get killed by a grizzly bear.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah, and they exhumed him many years later to see if the story was true, and his body was destroyed, like something bit through his thigh bones.
tom papa
Had mauled through it.
joe rogan
Yeah, he got tore apart by a bear.
tom papa
In New Jersey right now, in North Jersey, they're having a black bear problem.
joe rogan
Yeah, you know why?
Because their government stopped the hunting on bears.
The governor decided to stop the bear hunt.
It was a part of him being elected.
But these people, you're going to come face to face with the consequences of not managing dangerous wildlife.
Black bears are dangerous wildlife.
They're beautiful.
tom papa
They're all over.
joe rogan
Yes.
They're a problem.
They're beautiful.
They're amazing.
It's definitely good to have them around.
But you cannot let them overpopulate without a management plan.
And that's what I think was the difference between the way this guy was approaching it and the way wildlife biologists were approaching it.
They're approaching it from an emotional issue.
They don't want people to kill bears.
But you have to take, if the bear becomes something that kills you, which it could at one point in time.
I mean, there's a kid from Rutgers who got killed by a bear a couple years back.
It's very rare.
It's very rare that a person gets killed by a bear.
But that shit can happen more often, and that very rare, it's not going to do you any comfort.
if your kid turns up missing.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You know, your kid can't be in the backyard because bears might get your kid.
That's real.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Are you guys out of your fucking mind?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Like, bears are giant wild dogs that, again, like Jamie said, can smell a carcass 20 miles away.
Get the fuck out of here.
Kill them all.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Gun them.
Don't let them overtake your neighborhood.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be in the woods.
They should, but they should stay the fuck out of, like, suburbs, suburb neighborhoods.
tom papa
But the problem also is that it's just growing.
There's so many humans every year, more and more humans, more and more developments.
There's really not much land for these animals.
joe rogan
That's an interesting argument.
It's not that good, though.
But it hasn't expanded that much.
What's happened is the populations of the animals has arisen.
tom papa
But there is sprawl.
There's more developments.
joe rogan
Certainly sprawl in comparison to the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.
But what is happening now with these overpopulations of animals is there's no one doing anything about it.
See, if you have bears, there's no predators for bears.
They occasionally eat each other.
They do it all the time, actually.
They kill and eat each other all the time, especially cubs.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Males eat cubs, females eat their own cubs.
tom papa
Why do they got to do that for?
joe rogan
We were in Alberta, and one of the guys that I was with, my friend John, his son, saw a bear kill a cub, and then the mother of the cub ate it.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
What's with these guys?
joe rogan
This is the life they live, man.
They're not movie characters.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They're wild predators, and they're enormous.
These are several hundred pounds.
And if you think it's cute to have millions of them in a state...
Do you know that New Jersey has the densest population of black bears in all of North America?
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, New Jersey.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
How bananas that is.
tom papa
It's also the most densely populated...
For humans.
joe rogan
Is it really?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
It's the most populated state.
Because it's not that big.
Densely populated state.
joe rogan
Yeah.
But it has a lot of woods.
And there's a lot of woods.
tom papa
There's still a lot of woods.
joe rogan
There's a lot of places for these things to live.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But if you have bears, and there's nothing, there's no wolves, and there's no mountain lions, there's nothing taking the bears out, there's just bears.
tom papa
There's a crazy amount of deer, too.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
A crazy amount.
I was just there, you know, I have family there, and we were just driving around this summer, it's like...
They were just popping up everywhere.
joe rogan
I mean, the bears are probably eating the shit out of them, too.
They're responsible for the death of 50% of all deer fawns.
tom papa
Bears?
joe rogan
Bears.
Yeah.
tom papa
They just go around and eat the...
joe rogan
Half of the deer fawns get eaten by bears.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They did a study, like, where deer fawns get jacked.
It's, like, mostly bears.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
I mean, mountain lions get them, too.
unidentified
All in New Jersey.
joe rogan
They get a lot of deer fawns.
unidentified
Hanging out at the mall, eating at a Chick-fil-A. But there's no mountain lions in New Jersey, so it's all bears.
Right.
joe rogan
So the fawns there, they're all getting jacked by bears.
tom papa
Well, that was the big debate, I believe, when I was there, was they were thinking about allowing bear hunting.
Well, it was legal.
It was a big kerfuffle.
Well, it's been legal.
joe rogan
It's been legal for a long time.
tom papa
It was legal.
Then it was.
joe rogan
This new governor made it illegal.
tom papa
Right, right, right.
joe rogan
But the people that live there think it's a terrible idea to make it illegal.
unidentified
Right.
tom papa
To make it illegal.
joe rogan
But I get it.
I get people don't want bears to die.
But you just have to understand management.
You have to manage wildlife numbers when you're around people.
I mean, this idea that you shouldn't do that because they should be here, because they were here first, and we're taking over their land.
You're right.
You're right about all those things.
You're right, but we're team people, okay?
tom papa
But that's the reality we're dealing with, right?
Exactly.
joe rogan
You can't let many, many bears move into your area.
It's a fucking disaster.
They're going to eat your garbage.
You're going to get scared.
Someone's going to get bit.
Someone could die.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it accelerates with the population increase.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Whatever it is.
I mean, there's a wild video from, fuck, Far Rockaway, which is- Oh, really?
Yeah.
And these two bears- That's like Queens.
unidentified
I'm watching it.
tom papa
It's like Queens, New York.
joe rogan
These two bears, they start duking it out.
unidentified
Geez.
joe rogan
No, that's not the Far Rockaway one.
Is that Far Rockaway?
Is that what it says?
Okay, Far Rockaway, New Jersey.
Okay, this is a different one, but it's the same.
jamie vernon
This is brand new.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
tom papa
Geez, those look like grizzlies.
joe rogan
These are big bears.
tom papa
I always picture them smaller.
joe rogan
These are more than 200 pounds.
tom papa
Whoa!
joe rogan
That's what it looks like to me.
I'm looking at them.
tom papa
Oh, easy.
joe rogan
These are like 200 plus pound bears.
tom papa
It's like Jamie times two.
joe rogan
Well, there's another one where these bears fight.
I'm not bullshitting.
The bears look like 400 pound bears.
They're fucking enormous.
And they knock over this mailbox and they crash into some garbage.
They're so big, dude.
And they spill out onto the street while cars are there.
tom papa
Oh my God.
joe rogan
And cars are watching these.
And you get a real perspective sense of how big they are with the cars.
tom papa
Right, right.
joe rogan
I'm guessing 300 pounds plus.
Maybe 400 pounds.
tom papa
And they gotta be fast.
joe rogan
And they're duking it out with each other in front of everybody.
tom papa
In New Jersey.
joe rogan
Dude, in people's yards.
tom papa
Oh, my God.
jamie vernon
Another one with two giant bears in the same area.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
jamie vernon
From earlier this year.
This is a different one.
I know the one you're talking about we've brought up a few times.
joe rogan
So this is another one?
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
God.
jamie vernon
Stop playing.
tom papa
My sister had a whole family just walking down her street.
joe rogan
Dude, this is going to be a problem.
And they're going to have to hire people to go and kill these things.
tom papa
All it will take is one person getting eaten at the Taco Bell.
joe rogan
It could be a lot of different things.
It could be people's dogs.
Yeah, this was the original video that I saw.
They're fighting right outside these people's house.
And then they duke it out.
They eventually crash into the mailbox.
tom papa
That's shaky camera work.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, it's because he's...
tom papa
He's terrified.
joe rogan
Look at this.
They're duking it out.
Also, though, this is like a good sign that these were old-ass fucking cameras.
This is like before they really had stabilization on cell phone cameras.
tom papa
Right, yeah.
joe rogan
Look at the size of these fucks.
tom papa
Jeez.
unidentified
And they're just fighting on the street in front of all these people.
Yeah.
tom papa
Man, oh man.
joe rogan
This is what happens when you don't let people hunt them.
Or this is what happens when you don't hunt them enough.
tom papa
You gotta manage it.
joe rogan
When they encroach.
Yes.
Dude, it's fucking dangerous, man.
These are wild animals.
And these people that live there are soft-ass domesticated people.
tom papa
They don't know what that is.
They're not like us.
They don't know how to fight bears.
joe rogan
Look at the size of these things.
tom papa
That is massive.
joe rogan
Dude, these are big bears.
unidentified
They're big!
joe rogan
Those are big bears.
tom papa
That's not what I pictured.
Like, you ever go to the Black Bear Diner?
Yes.
They have them out here.
They have, like, all these wooden bears.
It's really cool.
joe rogan
Look at this.
tom papa
They make them look so adorable.
They wear hats.
They've got vests on.
joe rogan
I didn't see them crashing anything.
Maybe I was wrong about that.
Maybe it's another one.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
There's so many of these videos of bears fighting.
tom papa
God.
joe rogan
You know, Alaska takes it one step further, though.
One of my favorite videos is...
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, see, they did knock in a...
No, that's...
No, no, no.
tom papa
Well, didn't Alaska say you can shoot them in their den now?
joe rogan
I don't think so.
tom papa
Wasn't that the thing?
joe rogan
No, I don't think so.
tom papa
That's what I heard.
joe rogan
Unless they're trying to get rid of a certain number of them.
What I was going to talk about was moose in people's driveways.
There's this crazy fight where this guy's sitting in front of his car in the morning, sitting in his car in front of his house in the morning, and he's filming these gigantic moose duking it out on the front lawn.
unidentified
It is great.
joe rogan
They are fucking enormous.
And they're smashing antlers right on the sky.
There it is.
Look at this.
Look at this, man.
This is fucking crazy.
They're so big.
They crash into that car.
They probably fucked that car up.
But imagine if this is your house and you're watching two huge moose duke it out.
tom papa
I would like to live in a place like that.
joe rogan
Well, you can move to Anchorage, Alaska.
This can happen to you.
tom papa
That would be fun.
joe rogan
You'd move right next to Sarah Palin.
tom papa
My cat wouldn't...
joe rogan
The cat's fucked.
tom papa
My cat wouldn't make it.
joe rogan
The cat becomes an indoor cat.
Lock her in the house when you open the door.
Don't let her out.
Because everything's going to jack her.
Yeah, look at these things, man.
tom papa
They don't...
unidentified
Bro, look how big they are.
tom papa
Oh, he got them on his back.
Takedown.
joe rogan
They're so big, man.
These are so, so huge.
tom papa
This guy's running.
All of a sudden, the camera's...
joe rogan
This is how you put it in perspective, right?
A deer is like maybe a hundred, like an axis deer is like maybe 150 pounds.
An elk, a big one, is like closing in on a thousand pounds.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like 800, 900 pounds.
A moose is twice that big.
tom papa
Twice that big?
joe rogan
Twice that big.
1,800, 2,000 pounds sometimes.
tom papa
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
A big male moose.
Like, those moose right there, they easily could have been 1,600 pounds, 1,700 pounds.
tom papa
1,600 pounds.
joe rogan
They're so big.
And those are big ones, man.
They had giant antlers.
tom papa
Yeah, they're huge.
joe rogan
You see how wide their antlers are?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's like a fully mature moose.
tom papa
Oh, man.
joe rogan
They're fucking enormous, man.
tom papa
I came around a bend on my motorcycle in Maine once, and there was just a moose just standing there in the middle of the road.
joe rogan
God.
tom papa
It was like a wall.
It was like, I think there's a wall in the middle of the road, and it was a gigantic moose.
joe rogan
Greg Fitzsimmons did this gig in New Hampshire, and they told him that he couldn't swear.
So Greg, when he was young, as he is today, was a smartass, but today he's a professional smartass.
Back then, he was just kind of learning the smartass craft.
So he immediately opened up with, hey, what's going on, fuckers?
And, of course, doesn't clean up his act at all.
And they sent him home.
But what was crazy was, on the way up there, they were telling him, do not drive at night because of the moose.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Because you could hit a moose.
But he goes, after my show, they were so mad at me.
They're like, fuck you.
Go drive with the moose.
They sent him home.
tom papa
We want you out of the state.
joe rogan
In the dark, in New Hampshire, with the moose out.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
I just love the picture of a young Fitzsimmons.
joe rogan
He was hilarious.
He was such a smartass.
tom papa
Such a smartass.
joe rogan
I've known Greg since...
We literally started out within a week of each other.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Doing open mic nights.
tom papa
Wow.
I met him early in New York.
joe rogan
Dude, we did so many shitty gigs together.
tom papa
He was...
Mean.
unidentified
What?
tom papa
Greg?
Was he?
Come on.
Greg is cutting.
I mean, I always got along with him, Greg.
But no, but he had that, you know, he had Fitzsimmons attitude where if he locks it on you, you're toast.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, if he thinks you suck.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, if he thinks you suck and you annoy him.
unidentified
Especially if you're cocky, you annoy him.
tom papa
You don't know me, motherfucker!
You ever hear that joke of his?
joe rogan
Yeah, that's a hilarious bit.
He's got a lot of hilarious bits.
tom papa
I tell him every time I see him, it's the best bit of the year.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think Greg and I probably, I don't know how many gigs we did together, but for like the first few years of our comedy, when we're really starting to get like road gigs.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
We did a shit ton of them together.
unidentified
Oh, that's great.
joe rogan
Including open mic nights, man.
We just drive all the way down to Rhode Island.
We drive to Providence, Rhode Island to work.
We'll do like 10 minutes for free.
tom papa
Wow, of course.
joe rogan
Yeah, we're so excited.
Maybe not even 10. So great.
Might have been five minutes.
tom papa
Who would drive?
joe rogan
Whoever.
Whoever's fucking car worked.
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
I remember one time ago, me and Greg and this other dude were in a car, and the other dude starts talking about vibrators in his ass, and about how much his girlfriend likes to put vibrators in his ass.
tom papa
Who sang this?
joe rogan
Another comic.
This comic is telling us this crazy story.
I mean, we're trapped with this guy all the way to Maine, driving, and he's in the back seat talking about taking in the ass with vibrators.
I'm like, what?
We didn't get that close.
Like, this is...
It's a weird time to bring up this subject.
tom papa
It's his opening conversation.
joe rogan
It's like, I'm not averse to that subject.
I'm not averse to you discussing...
I don't think...
Butt play, first of all, I don't think there's anything wrong with being gay.
And I don't think butt play makes you gay.
So let's just like...
tom papa
It's intimate.
It's an intimate opener.
joe rogan
That's what I'm saying.
Let's soothe all those worries right there.
tom papa
Whatever you're into.
joe rogan
No problem with you getting your butt touched.
And I have no problem with you being gay.
tom papa
This is just...
joe rogan
That's not what I'm talking about.
This is like while you're driving.
tom papa
This is hello.
joe rogan
Yeah, my girl, she loved to put vibrators in my asshole.
Like, what?
tom papa
Hello, how do you do?
Nice to meet you, my girlfriend.
joe rogan
I mean, we knew this guy.
But we didn't know this guy.
Like, know this guy.
I didn't know him as much as I knew Greg.
And if Greg was telling me that in a car with somebody else, I'd be like, why are you telling me this other dude is here?
This is something you don't want everybody to know.
tom papa
Yeah, Ixnay on the ass play.
joe rogan
Yeah, it doesn't seem like you would want to broadcast that to just random strangers.
unidentified
That's so funny.
joe rogan
But this dude wanted us to know that his girl liked to put vibrators in his asshole.
And we were trapped with this guy.
And sadly, he wasn't that good of a comedian either.
tom papa
Oh, boy.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Neither were any of us back then, but we were a little better than him.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
He was in this range.
There's a range that happens with early comedy, young comics coming up where you're like, ooh, I don't know if you're ever going to get out of this.
tom papa
Yeah.
No, you can see pretty quickly.
joe rogan
Sometimes, some of us, you suck in the beginning, but you have a hint.
tom papa
Yeah, there's something there.
joe rogan
There's something there.
tom papa
Yeah, no, exactly.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Kyle Dunnigan and I did a show early on for a high school in New Jersey.
joe rogan
Oh, Jesus.
tom papa
And we drove out there, and the same thing, just be really clean, make sure it's really clean.
It's got to be clean.
Oh.
Kyle went up.
I went up.
And you're bombing because it's high school kids.
You don't have a great act to begin with.
And it's all high school children and you have nothing to relate to them.
And they don't want to listen to a man talking.
joe rogan
How old were you at the time?
tom papa
Probably 32, something like that.
I don't know, 35. And...
I'm just bombing and just trying to get through it.
And then Kyle comes out and he's the whole time backstage.
He's like, do I do my songs?
Do I do my songs?
I'm like, you know, I don't know.
Whatever works, you know, just try and keep it clean.
He comes out and he sings this song.
It was about the Irish parade, the St. Patrick's Day parade sung like in an Irish brogue.
And one line was if it was about, oh, they were allowing, they were debating whether or not homosexuals could march in the parade.
That was a big thing in New York for like a decade.
And Kyle had a funny song about it, and the line was, If my cock is the ladle, your ass be the stew.
Like, the song is like an iron.
If your cock be the little, me ass be the stew.
And I just hear him, like, starting to get to it.
And he goes into it.
It's the first thing that the audience loves.
The kids are so excited by it.
unidentified
Oh, my God.
tom papa
Fast forward, the show's over.
We're going to get paid.
and a high school principal is livid.
He's got a Winnie the Pooh tie.
And there's two girls there.
He's got a Winnie the Pooh tie.
He's purple.
He's so angry.
And he's yelling at us, what are, these are children.
unidentified
Your cock is the ladle.
tom papa
And there's two girls.
They made us cupcakes and had construction papers saying thank you for performing at our school with stars and moons.
And they don't know whether they should give us the treats or not because the principal is just yelling at us.
joe rogan
But these are high school students.
tom papa
Oh, so funny.
joe rogan
These are high school kids, though.
tom papa
We got the check.
Yes, high school kids.
joe rogan
They already knew those things.
That's why they laughed.
tom papa
Oh, of course, of course.
But he couldn't sanction it.
But Kyle just, you know, you're dying and you have no material.
So what else is he going to do?
He had to break out the song.
joe rogan
Yeah.
There's nothing else he can do, right?
tom papa
He's just trying to survive and get paid and get out of there.
joe rogan
Yeah, you gotta survive.
You gotta take it on the chin.
tom papa
Hey, you gotta come on my radio show.
joe rogan
I gotta?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Didn't you say you do it at 7 in the morning?
tom papa
7 to 9. Why do you gotta do that?
Well, I don't know.
joe rogan
It seems like you should do it when you're awake.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
If you want it to be good.
tom papa
It's really early.
joe rogan
Does it stream live or something?
tom papa
Yeah, it's on Sirius.
Netflix is a joke radio.
They took all their specials and they run them on the Netflix radio.
joe rogan
I was thinking that Netflix was going to have its own radio channel.
Like they have a Netflix channel.
tom papa
Their own radio channel.
joe rogan
That's what I was thinking.
tom papa
Oh, you thought there was going to be a comedy.
joe rogan
Yeah, like an app.
Like a new thing that they're doing.
tom papa
It's like Raw Dog on SiriusXM or Comedy Greats.
joe rogan
So you have to have Sirius to listen to it.
That's what I was thinking.
You could listen to it on the Netflix app.
Because so many people listen to Netflix on their phones now.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
So many people watch specials.
I think they said that like 50% of the people that watch my Netflix special watch it on a phone.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They're actually even...
Many people are formatting their specials to make them better to watch on phones.
tom papa
Oh, interesting.
joe rogan
Yeah, like the way they're shooting it in terms of how they zoom in on the shot, what shots they choose.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, they're doing it so you can look at it on a fucking Samsung Galaxy S10 Plus or something.
unidentified
That's interesting.
tom papa
So they have all these specials from all these people, so they started their own channel, and I have the first radio show on it.
And it runs 7 to 9 out here, and then 2 to 4. So it's drive time here in the morning, and drive time in New York in the afternoon.
joe rogan
And you and Fortune?
Fortune Feimster?
tom papa
Fortune Feimster, yeah.
She's so funny.
joe rogan
She's very funny.
tom papa
I love her so much.
joe rogan
Very cool person, too.
tom papa
They were like, who do you want to do this with you?
And she was on this short list.
I was like, oh, done.
joe rogan
She always seems very friendly.
tom papa
She's really funny.
She's just bright.
joe rogan
She murders, too.
She murders.
Murders on stage.
tom papa
She's so funny.
joe rogan
She's very, very funny.
tom papa
Her Instagram's really funny.
unidentified
Isn't it?
tom papa
She dances.
She does ice cream dances.
She always gets an ice cream cone and dances along with it.
joe rogan
We need to get her and Fahim together so we can work out.
tom papa
But it's cool because it's all comedy.
It's all comedians coming in, talking about their specials, talking about comedy.
Yeah, it's pretty fun, but it's early.
joe rogan
Why do they make you do that?
tom papa
I don't know.
I'm not sure if it's really necessary.
joe rogan
Yeah, you've got to put your foot down.
tom papa
You could do it the night before and have it run in the morning.
Because we're not doing hard news.
joe rogan
You could just bypass that system and do a podcast.
tom papa
I do have a podcast.
joe rogan
I know you do.
But do it in a podcast form.
tom papa
Yeah, just do a successful podcast.
joe rogan
Do you have a specific contract for a certain amount of time?
I'm not trying to get you out of here.
tom papa
Yeah, we're going to do it for a year.
And then, it is fun.
I am enjoying it.
But you know what?
It's going to mess with my spots during the week.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's what we were saying.
I was saying if you wanted to do the improv tomorrow night, you said you really can't.
Because you've got to get up early in the morning.
tom papa
I could do an early show.
I can't do late shows.
joe rogan
Tough shit.
No late show.
Show starts at 10.30.
I don't know what to tell you.
We're not going to move everything back for you, Tom.
tom papa
Why?
I thought we were friends.
joe rogan
You shouldn't have a job like that.
It's a preposterous job.
You're up at 7 in the morning talking.
It's crazy.
tom papa
Yeah, it's doing morning radio all the time.
joe rogan
If I'm up at 7 in the morning, I'm exercising.
I'm not...
I want to get things done first.
I don't want to just wake up and talk.
unidentified
I'm not ready yet.
joe rogan
I can't remember names.
My memory is 50% is good when I first wake up.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
50%?
joe rogan
It sucks.
It sucks.
It's terrible.
You hit me with a pop quiz.
tom papa
How long does it take you to dust off the cobwebs?
joe rogan
I don't know.
I often thought about that, right?
I often thought about how dumb I am during the day if there's a meter.
If you could see, like, now I should make some good decisions.
tom papa
He's getting smarter, getting smarter.
joe rogan
Too in the afternoon, I'm feeling pretty fucking good.
But somewhere around late at night, everything starts to fall apart.
And early in the morning, everything falls apart.
tom papa
What's late at night for you?
joe rogan
Like 1-ish, 1.30.
I don't work out at 1.30 in the morning.
I really don't have the energy to work out.
tom papa
You mean physically working?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Sometimes I'll be writing at 1.30 in the morning.
And I can write at 1.30 in the morning.
But if I had to go through one of my workout routines...
tom papa
Like a physical activity.
joe rogan
Like a real workout.
I can't do it.
tom papa
I'm too tired.
Well, you shouldn't.
It's 1 o'clock in the morning.
joe rogan
Right.
But that's letting you know that there's a cycle to where you have energy and where you don't have energy.
Where you're awake and where you're not awake.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
But some people, they perform way better late in the afternoon.
Like, I used to feel that way about jiu-jitsu class.
Like, early morning jiu-jitsu classes, I was terrible.
I just couldn't get my body warmed up.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah, I didn't like them.
But the evening ones, like an 8.30 class, I was peaking.
tom papa
Oh, interesting.
I'm better working out early.
joe rogan
Yeah?
tom papa
Yeah.
It's like after lunch.
joe rogan
What is a typical Tom Papa day?
How do you start your day?
tom papa
Radio day or no radio day?
Editing jerking off parts.
joe rogan
I don't want to hear those parts.
tom papa
Well, I guess we're fast forwarding to noon.
Okay, give me a radio day.
Non-radio day.
joe rogan
Okay, non-radio day.
tom papa
Non-radio day.
I get up at 7. Damn.
I get up at 7. I go upstairs.
joe rogan
Like a soldier.
tom papa
I make coffee.
I get one cup of coffee.
joe rogan
Do you play classical music softly?
tom papa
Once in a while.
joe rogan
I picture you OCD butter in your toast.
tom papa
No, I don't eat straight away.
It's just straight black coffee.
Into the office.
I have an office.
And I try and write.
I sit at the desk.
I call it going into the shop.
And I sit there and I write.
And I make sure that there's no...
I don't do appointments until noon.
Anything I'm going to do, I don't do until noon.
Except if I'm going to go for a run or workout.
I'll put in a couple hours, and then when I start to fade, I'll go for a run and then come back and continue.
Oh, I skipped something.
I'm sorry.
Before the coffee, if I'm up early enough and the house isn't up, I'll meditate first for 20 minutes.
joe rogan
Before you even write.
tom papa
Coffee before I write.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
Yeah.
Wake up, water in the face, maybe brush teeth.
Up into the office and then take 20 right away.
Because it's more restful than sleep.
So even if you had like a bad night's sleep or you're tossing or whatever was going on, you're now ready to go through the day.
joe rogan
What kind of meditation are you doing?
tom papa
TM. Transcendental Meditation.
joe rogan
Transcendental Meditation.
There's a weird thing about that, right?
Some people think it's kind of culty.
tom papa
It's not culty.
joe rogan
It's not culty.
tom papa
There's no leaders.
joe rogan
Right, but wasn't there some controversy with TM a while back?
tom papa
I think so.
joe rogan
No?
Am I misconstruing it with something else?
tom papa
Yeah, no.
That's why I like it.
I'm very into it.
I've been doing it for a long time.
It's great, but I like yoga.
I like all that kind of stuff.
Unless you get a little hippy-dippy with it and a little too preachy, then I'm out.
joe rogan
Yeah, me too.
tom papa
And this is totally basic, simple.
When I was taught it, there was nothing, you know, like hippy-dippy flaky about it.
joe rogan
You know what, man?
That hippy-dippy flaky shit, it only feels shitty if the person's not really living that life.
And you can kind of feel it.
It's kind of bullshitting.
tom papa
Yes.
joe rogan
There was this guy I used to take classes from.
I'm saying it was Peter.
He's from South Africa.
I only took his classes a few times.
But he was like one of those genuinely spiritual people.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And he would say these things and you could tell he wasn't trying to manipulate you or namaste you or satnam.
He wasn't trying to bullshit you.
tom papa
That's, yeah.
joe rogan
And then there was another guy that he used to take classes with that it felt like he was always bullshitting.
Always.
It was so annoying.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
And he wound up banging this other dude's wife.
tom papa
Of course.
joe rogan
And it became a giant disaster.
tom papa
He's the guy with the acoustic guitar making eye contact with you.
joe rogan
So funny you say that.
He would sing.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Sing in clashes.
tom papa
Of course.
Of course.
No, you can smell it.
And that's why I had a hard time with yoga until I found this one teacher, and she was just great.
And it's the same thing with TM. Controversy.
joe rogan
Here it is.
jamie vernon
There was some cult controversy or something a while ago with it.
joe rogan
Yeah, okay.
With TM? Can we make that a little larger?
I can barely read that shit.
tom papa
Yeah, that's really small.
joe rogan
What's that?
The organization has been the subject of controversy labeled a cult by several parliamentary inquiries or anti-cult movements of the world.
Some also suggest that TM, its movements are not a cult.
The TM movement has been characterized in a variety of ways.
It's been called a spiritual movement, a new religious movement, a millenarian, a world affirming movement, a social movement, a guru-centered movement.
How a new book exposes the dark side of Transcendental Medication.
tom papa
I don't even understand where you would have, like, where it would happen.
Like, there's no place to go.
joe rogan
Well, I'm honestly ignorant of it, so explain it to us.
tom papa
Yeah, there's nothing, it's very, you know, I tried meditating in all these different ways, and this kind of made it very simple.
joe rogan
Doesn't Seinfeld do this, too?
tom papa
Yes.
He's the end of TM? Yeah, he's actually the one that got me into it.
And for a long time, I was thinking, well, I meditate.
I count breaths.
I'd kind of do it.
I wasn't really feeling...
I always had in my head that maybe TM is different.
Maybe going and learning that would kind of dial it in a little bit more.
joe rogan
So you took classes on it?
tom papa
So I took four classes.
You saw this guy here in California.
And...
Just go for an hour, four days in a row, and he teaches you what to do it.
And the analogy is that there's this...
The reality is just in this tumultuous ocean waves.
We're on the top.
We're on the surface.
That's where we live.
And this is just a way, through a mantra, to get you down below the waves to sit for 20 minutes.
And it's very freeing because there's no...
There's no controlling your mind.
There's no forcing it to come back and count breaths.
You're not thinking about what you have to do.
You just do the mantra, do the mantra, and then let it go.
And if your brain starts thinking about work, it thinks about work.
If it starts thinking about your wife, just let it be, let it be, let it be.
And 20 minutes, you pop out of it.
unidentified
And you feel...
tom papa
Not right away, I don't feel changed immediately.
Like I'll feel, you know, I have an Apple Watch and my heart rate is low.
joe rogan
Like it's 40 to 50. All the time or when you're doing this?
tom papa
No, when I'm doing that.
joe rogan
How much is it normally?
Probably like 80. What's it right now?
How long does it take to find that out?
tom papa
It's going to take a while.
joe rogan
Hey Siri.
It's at 80. And you get down to 40 when you do TM? Yeah.
tom papa
It's very calming.
And it just kind of gives your nervous system a respite.
joe rogan
That's pretty heavy.
tom papa
It's pretty great.
It gives me a lot of energy.
joe rogan
Did I activate Siri by saying, hey Siri?
tom papa
Oh yeah, Siri did.
joe rogan
I didn't catch that.
People right now are screaming at me because their car is going, boo-boo!
What would you like me to do?
tom papa
But I don't feel it right away, but I'll notice it hours later that I have more energy.
I'm still going.
joe rogan
What is the process?
How do you do it?
tom papa
I just sit.
joe rogan
And what's the mantra?
tom papa
Everyone has an individual mantra.
joe rogan
Tell us your mantra.
tom papa
I can't.
joe rogan
Come on, bro.
What if someone's a gigantic Tom Papa fan?
They want to do everything that you do.
tom papa
Well, that's true.
It's jelly beans.
joe rogan
That's what you say?
tom papa
No.
Liar.
It's just a noise, pretty much.
joe rogan
Wouldn't it be weird if you just kept saying Jerry Seinfeld?
unidentified
Jerry Seinfeld.
tom papa
Sourd dough.
joe rogan
Sourd dough.
Sourd dough would be cool.
tom papa
Sourd dough.
joe rogan
Because it's a delicious food.
tom papa
Sourd dough.
joe rogan
But it wouldn't be nearly as weird.
Something about...
Brad Garrett.
Brad Garrett.
tom papa
Yeah, it would be weird.
joe rogan
Strange, right?
tom papa
So, I do it first thing in the morning.
joe rogan
20 minutes.
tom papa
And then sometime in the late afternoon.
joe rogan
So, can you explain?
All you do is you sit and you just chant your mantra?
tom papa
In my mind.
joe rogan
And you don't say it out loud?
tom papa
Don't say it out loud.
joe rogan
Okay.
So, as you're just...
When you're repeating the mantra in your mind, you just try to stay on path?
tom papa
I just keep saying it.
I don't try and stay on a path.
I don't force anything.
I just keep saying it.
joe rogan
But if your brain tries to trick you and say, hey, Tom, I have a great idea for a new bit, do you let it happen?
tom papa
Let it go.
It's okay.
joe rogan
Do you write the bit down?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Whoa, you're risking it all.
tom papa
I'm not that great of a comedian, so those things don't happen.
joe rogan
There's moments where I have fucking been laying in bed and I was too tired to get up and I'd say, I'm going to remember this for sure.
tom papa
I'll remember that for sure.
joe rogan
And I definitely didn't.
tom papa
No.
And yeah, 20 minutes.
And I'm telling you, my one friend described it as, it adds another four hours to your day.
unidentified
Wow.
tom papa
And it's really true.
When you call me today, last minute to come in, I took 20 before I came because I was dragging.
I went for a run this morning.
I meditated this morning, but then I went for a run.
I came back.
I was writing.
And you called and you're like, can you come on over?
I was like, yeah, that's cool, but let me drop for 15 minutes before I get in the car.
joe rogan
So that's what you did.
You meditated for 15 minutes?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wow.
Do you do that before sets?
tom papa
No.
If I'm tired, yeah.
If it's towards the end of the day and I've got something at night that's a little later.
joe rogan
Does it help you make decisions?
tom papa
Yes.
joe rogan
How did you still make the decision to do a radio show at 7 in the morning?
tom papa
Because I'm not afraid of it.
unidentified
Wow.
tom papa
Because I know that I can meditate and I'll have energy.
joe rogan
How many days a week do you do that?
tom papa
I don't have to worry about getting a good night's sleep.
joe rogan
Ever?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
tom papa
I can meditate, and then I'll be okay for the show.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
I can't do that.
tom papa
Yes, you can.
You should go.
joe rogan
I can.
tom papa
You should go.
joe rogan
Okay.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, I'd love to.
tom papa
I'll hook you up with the guy.
joe rogan
Can I just watch a YouTube video?
Isn't that good enough?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
I've learned so much from YouTube, though.
tom papa
Have you?
joe rogan
Yes.
tom papa
It's true.
joe rogan
Why can't you learn Transcendental Meditation from YouTube?
tom papa
You know what?
There is this mystery about it, and I would research it, and I was like, why can't I just learn it?
The only difference is having this man explain it to you It kind of dials it in.
And I went back once since I learned it initially just to kind of tune up.
There's not that much, but it's just, you know, they give you a little bit, you know, it's like playing tennis or something.
And they're like, no, just hold it like this.
Oh, right.
Okay.
Or like in yoga, they're like, you think you're doing this, but your elbows are out.
joe rogan
Just kind of bring them in.
That's big in yoga.
Like sometimes the instructor will give you one thing.
She'll say one thing about the way you're standing or the way you Keep your weight.
You're like, oh, man.
And you just change it just slightly.
You're like, oh, my God.
It's so much harder.
tom papa
I know, which you never would have learned at home.
So it's kind of a similar thing.
And over time, so that's what it is on a daily basis.
But over time...
It makes you more chill.
Things don't bother me the way they used to bother me.
Just day-to-day aggravations.
joe rogan
Normal bullshit.
tom papa
Normal bullshit.
You slowly transform without realizing it.
joe rogan
Do you know who Dan Harris is?
tom papa
Sam Harris?
joe rogan
Dan Harris?
tom papa
Dan Harris?
No.
joe rogan
From, what is the show, Nightline?
Is that what he's on?
Anyway, he'd been on the podcast for a really nice guy.
He's got an app called 10% Happier.
And it's just a meditation app.
And he wants people to know that it's been super beneficial to him.
So he talks about it often.
He talked about it on my podcast.
And he actually used the tank.
He's the only guy other than me that's ever used that tank.
tom papa
I want to use the tank.
joe rogan
Okay.
tom papa
This was a weird thing.
joe rogan
I don't offer it to fucking everybody, but Dan Harris is the only one who said, I'm in.
Let's do it.
tom papa
When you called me today, I was online looking at tanks.
joe rogan
Did you ever ruin your house for one?
tom papa
No.
That thing's big.
joe rogan
It's big.
tom papa
It's big.
It's hotter than I thought.
joe rogan
Well, you don't want to be cold in there.
tom papa
No, it's true.
joe rogan
It's 94 degrees.
94. Yeah, that's what you want.
That's about the temperature of the surface of your skin, somewhere in that range.
tom papa
How did he like it?
How long do I stay in there?
An hour?
joe rogan
You can stay as long as you want.
The most I ever do, though, is two hours.
I've done more on edibles.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Because I couldn't move.
I just had to stay put.
unidentified
For real?
joe rogan
Yes.
Yeah, I've gone on some journeys.
tom papa
You ate edibles and went in there?
joe rogan
Oh, many times.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Oh, for sure, yeah.
tom papa
That sounds kind of crazy.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
Edibles have a unique visual quality when you're in a sensory deprivation tank because the tank enhances any sort of sensory experience.
Any psychedelic experience is enhanced by the tank.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Because the tank removes the environment.
It removes the world.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And it puts you in this place where you don't see anything or hear anything or feel anything.
You're just flying through space.
tom papa
You put the ear things in?
joe rogan
I don't.
I just let salt water get in my ears.
tom papa
That's what I saw online.
joe rogan
I just rinse my ears out after it's over.
It seems to be fun.
tom papa
Right.
And just float.
You don't have to keep your head up.
joe rogan
I like my ears in the water.
It doesn't bother me.
I put my ears in the water when I swim, too.
I'm not wearing earplugs when I swim in the ocean.
Why am I wearing earplugs when I lay in this tank?
tom papa
I thought it was an audio thing, that you're trying to shut out noise.
joe rogan
You can do it, but I'm always aware of the plugs.
They kind of fuck with the balance of your head.
Yeah, I get that.
But if you had something over the ear, well, anyway, you can do it.
Some people like it that way.
Some people use the wax.
tom papa
You don't have to.
joe rogan
No, you don't have to.
Some people actually get them form-fitted to their ears, so they slide in really easily, so you barely even notice that they're there.
tom papa
And...
My understanding is that you lay like you're floating, but you don't have to support yourself.
joe rogan
You don't have to do shit.
tom papa
Your neck, your head, anything.
Nope, nothing.
joe rogan
Yeah, you have to do it.
I can't believe you've never done it before.
tom papa
Yeah, no, I'm really...
joe rogan
It's super easy.
It's right here.
You tell me when.
tom papa
All right.
joe rogan
We'll open it up.
tom papa
That'd be great.
joe rogan
There's a shower in that room.
It's real easy.
You just have to lay there and just slow down and just concentrate on your breathing.
If you already have your TM routine, I'm sure you could do it in there.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just do it in there.
It'd probably be amazing.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You'd want to buy a house with an extra garage bay so you can stick one in it.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I knew a guy who had one.
I didn't know him, but I knew the guy who installed it.
The guy installed a shed in his backyard just so he could have the tank.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, so he bought a tool shed that you could buy and build.
So he built this shed, had electricity plumbed out to it, must have got some sort of a building permit, and then plugged this fucking tank into the shed, because he wanted one so bad in his house, and he didn't have any room in his actual house.
tom papa
How often do you do it, and what does it give you?
joe rogan
Well, I do it whenever I can.
What I like is once a week.
If I get once a week in, that would be awesome.
tom papa
Wow, that's a lot.
joe rogan
Lately, I haven't been.
Lately, it's been more like once a month.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But when I do get in it, I just can have a better perspective.
It calms me down.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It puts me into this place where I'm not connected to the world anymore, so I feel like I can look at the world from an outside perspective.
tom papa
You carry that with you when you leave, you mean?
joe rogan
You carry something.
I mean, I think all these things are accumulative.
Yeah.
All the books you read, the documentaries you watch, all the conversations you have with insightful people, all those things have an accumulation effect.
tom papa
I agree.
joe rogan
As you become exposed to more things and talk to more cool people and listen to more cool ideas and have these cool conversations with people, your perspective enhances.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It just does.
tom papa
No, it does.
It seeps in.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Yeah.
No, I totally buy it.
joe rogan
I think we should think of your perception the same way we think about other skills, that some people are really good at running with a football, right?
It's super hard to take them down.
They're so good at anticipating your moves and getting out of the way, and they have everything down, right?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think that's the same way with everything.
Everything.
Including your own perceptions of life and the way you view and the way you manage your own life.
I think you can get really good at it where things come in your way.
You just, whoop, not today, motherfucker.
Oh, shit, not me.
He ain't getting me.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Or you could be that person who's like a super uncoordinated, unathletic kid.
tom papa
All reaction.
joe rogan
Yeah, who is trying to tackle a super athlete.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It's too hard!
You know?
tom papa
Right?
No, 100%.
joe rogan
But I think we don't think about it that way, though.
tom papa
Because the one way is thoughtful, the other way is thoughtless.
joe rogan
Yes.
tom papa
I think that seems to be kind of the key.
unidentified
For sure.
tom papa
Just paying attention to that aspect of your life.
joe rogan
That definitely has an effect on it.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But what I'm saying is also that, that is definitely true, but what I'm saying is also that I think the way you interface with life is a skill.
And I think we don't think of it as a skill.
We don't think of it as something you get better at.
Or that we even try to get better at.
And this includes the way you communicate with people.
This includes the friendships that you have.
Making sure your friends know that you love them.
Making sure your friends know you care about them.
All these things are...
This is a part of the way you live life.
And you get better at this as a skill.
We only think of skills as things that we decide to do.
I want to play piano.
Oh my god, you have a skill at playing piano.
I'm a really good golfer.
Oh, you have golfing skill.
You don't think of the way you interface with people.
You don't think of that as a skill.
tom papa
No, I know.
joe rogan
But I think we should.
tom papa
Yes, absolutely.
I always think of that in terms of the interpersonal stuff.
Just in basic manners.
Like there used to be real guidelines for how you said hello to somebody and when you took your hat off and how you said goodbye and all those little, all those what were perceived as stuffy, mannerly things that people had to do, stuck up people had to do.
They're helpful.
They're really like how to act at a funeral, how to act at a birthday party, all those little rules.
unidentified
Etiquette.
tom papa
Etiquette, exactly.
joe rogan
Yeah, they used to teach courses in etiquette.
tom papa
Yes, and without it, it's kind of like, it's stupid not to play with it, because we need a bit of, all the stuff we're talking about is creating your own little guidebook to get through life.
joe rogan
Do you think they still teach etiquette in any high schools?
Is that a focus of study?
tom papa
We have such little money for schools.
They're getting rid of art.
They're getting rid of gym.
There's probably not a lot of etiquette.
joe rogan
That seems like a critical life skill, though.
tom papa
It is.
joe rogan
It really is.
tom papa
It really is.
joe rogan
Because how you...
One of the things that's true is how much people enjoy being around you.
That makes your life more enjoyable.
And people don't think of it that way.
They oftentimes think...
Right.
tom papa
Uh-huh.
Right?
Right.
joe rogan
But if people enjoy being around you...
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
...you'll enjoy everything more.
This is what they don't understand, like the solo effort.
tom papa
That's right.
joe rogan
Of going through life like with a narcissistic perspective.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
One of the major problems with that is there's no one to share it with because you're all out for yourself.
tom papa
That's right.
joe rogan
Even if you get there, you're going to be filled with sadness and despair.
tom papa
That's right.
joe rogan
It's not what you want.
What you want is to be happy, right?
Well, I know you think that you have to be all about yourself to be happy, but in fact, that is a way to ensure unhappiness regardless of success.
tom papa
That's right.
joe rogan
That's the mind fog.
tom papa
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
That's the mindfire.
tom papa
Well, you think that these small things wouldn't have a big effect on you, right?
You think that, well, like having a sense of community, going to the same shops all the time, you would think that's just me doing errands.
No.
You're now connected to the woman that works at that pharmacy.
You're connected to that bagger at the grocery store.
You're connected to that person at the church, whatever it is in your little world.
And you think you're just going about your day, but you're not.
You're getting enriched by these...
By these interactions with people.
Dealing with other human beings in a nice manner is rewarding, and it gives you a sense of place, it gives you a sense of belonging, a sense of love, all of those things.
joe rogan
But you have to learn that yourself.
That's the problem.
tom papa
It's true, but that's, yeah.
Nobody guides you along that path.
joe rogan
It's an important perspective.
I mean, it really is.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's an important angle on life.
Look at it this way, and you'll benefit greatly, and you will also bring up those around you.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And also, bring up those around you benefits you greatly.
It benefits everybody.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And when you're in a position where you can help your friends in that way and you support each other and you build each other up, when that person has success, you get great joy, like great satisfaction from seeing your friends succeed.
tom papa
Yeah, right, exactly.
joe rogan
A lot of people have a hard time, especially, I mean, I don't know how it was when you were starting out comedian, but I had a hard time with other people's success when I first started out.
tom papa
And I think we all did.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because nothing was happening for me.
I was like, goddammit, how did he get that show?
Oh my god, how did he get this?
It's a dumb way to look at it.
And I had to recognize that it was dumb.
I had to learn.
tom papa
Me too.
joe rogan
Just by paying attention to myself, going, what is wrong with you?
I will occasionally talk to myself as if I'm me, outside of me, going, what the fuck is this?
Sometimes it's the only way...
To really look at yourself right.
It's hard to do, but if you just...
How would I feel if I wasn't me?
If I was outside of me, watching me, I'd be like, what are you bitching about that guy getting a thing, you fucking idiot?
You're not even working on yourself.
You're sitting here complaining about stuff.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But that's default for so many people.
tom papa
Well, that's envy.
joe rogan
Right.
tom papa
Right?
And it's very easy to have when you're discovering yourself and trying to make your way as a comedian.
And you're like, well, I'm doing all the right things.
People laugh at me.
Why did that guy just show up and he's on MTV and I'm not?
joe rogan
Sure.
I mean, and that also exists in haters, right?
Like when you see someone, especially when it comes to sports teams, you see some of the guys that are like sports haters or they'll call this guy a pussy and this guy fucking sucks and he's a bum and he's a this and he's that.
How much effort are you putting into your own life?
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
How much are you putting into shitting on this guy?
tom papa
Right.
Well, it's easier to do that.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
tom papa
So much easier.
unidentified
It's instantaneous.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's right there.
Instant gratitude.
Yeah.
Gratification, rather.
tom papa
I remember I had the same thing that you did.
I was in New York.
I was working at the Comedy Cellar, and I was just getting angry and frustrated.
I couldn't get on Conan.
I wanted to get on Conan.
I just wanted to get on Conan.
And it wasn't until I stopped paying attention to what everyone else was doing consciously, like told myself, don't even go in the room.
Don't read about other people.
Just blinders.
Put blinders on.
This is just you and your little path.
Enjoy yourself and go about it.
And try and really shut it out.
And that's when everything got correct.
And when it got correct, that's when I got Conan.
That's when all these things started happening because I was only worried about myself.
And then later on, now you have perspective.
You can watch other people and actually have joy that these people are doing these things.
joe rogan
Conan is the nerd seal of approval.
If you're a nerd comedian, and I mean that in a good way, like if you're a smart comedian and you get Conan, that's like, damn, you nailed it.
You got the smart show.
That's the smart show.
It was always.
tom papa
I did it, yeah.
The first one was in New York.
joe rogan
Yeah, when he was in New York, one of my friends was writing for him in the early, early, early, early, early days.
tom papa
Yeah.
Well, he was so creative.
He was a writer.
Yeah, he was a real funny writer, and everything came from that.
So you wanted to be a part.
You couldn't be hacky and get on the show, so you had to be working.
You had to try and be unique.
It was a seal of approval that you were comedically unique, and that was important.
joe rogan
I knew a couple guys who worked for him.
Brian Kiley, I think?
tom papa
Yeah, he's still there.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's still there?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, Brian Kiley.
tom papa
Him and Laurie Kilmartin.
joe rogan
Oh, I don't know Laurie, but I knew another guy, Amir, Amir Golan.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
His stage name was James Lemur.
Funny dude.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
But he worked for him, and he and I were friends, and I went to one of the early tapings.
It was weird to see, because they had scripted conversations.
Now, eventually, he went on to become so comfortable on stage, where he just would ask questions and then play off and riff.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But in the early days, they had their conversation scripted.
What do you mean, the conversation?
tom papa
And a guest?
joe rogan
No, and what's his face?
His sidekick, Andy Richter.
Him and Andy Richter would be reading off cue cards.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah, so they would know what they were going to say.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
They were basically doing like a sketch.
tom papa
That's a writer.
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's like they had written out the jokes.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But it was like, of course the network wanted that because they wanted to make sure it was funny.
How do you know it's not funny?
Write it.
unidentified
Write it out.
joe rogan
Make it funny.
Don't take a chance that you guys are going to be funny.
tom papa
It's just so funny because they seem like such naturally funny.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
But it's hard when you have all these people on your back to...
Free yourself up to fail.
joe rogan
Well, the early days of any kind of a new talk show are so risky.
It's like, who the fuck knows where this is going to go?
Arsenio Hall!
unidentified
Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo!
joe rogan
He was one of the only guys that figured out a way to break into that system, right?
Like George Lopez did for a little while, but that late night system, it's a fucking hard thing to do.
tom papa
It's a grind.
joe rogan
It's a weird show because everybody does a version of the same show that Jack Parr did in like 19-0.
tom papa
And yet trying to do something completely different fails a lot of the time.
joe rogan
Yeah, but they all have a desk.
You sit at the desk, the desk sits next to them at the desk, which is a fucking holy weird way to have a conversation.
Imagine if you came over a guy's house, and he's above you in a desk that's an elevated desk.
Like, they're elevated.
Everyone's elevated.
tom papa
But you know what's weird is, like, when James Corden does it, like, just, they're all on chairs, and there's no desk, and it's just, like, leaning into each other.
That's weirder.
unidentified
Weirder.
tom papa
Yeah, I don't want to see your legs.
unidentified
Weird.
joe rogan
I watched it once and there was like three people on the couch together.
I'm like, what the fuck is happening here?
tom papa
Yeah, what's going on?
joe rogan
It's too strange.
tom papa
Yeah, it's weird.
joe rogan
Well, I'm so spoiled by podcasts.
I'm so spoiled by no time constraints.
I'm so spoiled by all of it.
tom papa
But, you know, it's kind of...
Yeah, when Bernie was on last week, I listened to your Bernie episode.
It was so good.
Because I never got to hear him just breathe.
joe rogan
Yes.
tom papa
To just hear him talk.
joe rogan
Yes, he's super reasonable.
tom papa
Anybody.
Just to hear them just go for a length of time.
You really get to know who they are when you're...
Trying, even in these late night shows, it's just boom, boom, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, soundbite, soundbite, soundbite.
You don't really get a sense of who these people are.
joe rogan
It's impossible.
tom papa
I'm sure some people listening right now wish this was, Tom, it's a soundbite.
joe rogan
But no, don't you think, like, if you were on a show right now, like one of those panel shows where there's five people on, they come to you real quick, and you have like 15 seconds of talk, and you're worried that someone else is going to jump in and try to stomp on your punchline.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Which does happen.
If you're trying to do a show, and it was like, just us and our friends, right?
It was like, Chris DeLee was in here, and Brian Callen was in here, and we were all talking, like, man, you better get something out quick.
There's so many other people in the room.
This is what those debates are like.
It's like a condensed version of a conversation.
And you also have an actual physical time limit.
Like, you have X amount of seconds to respond, and then they start talking over you.
tom papa
I know.
I know.
joe rogan
Your time is up.
Excuse me, Mr. Senator.
Mr. Senator.
Your time's up, Mr. Senator.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, okay!
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
Let him finish the sentence, you fuck!
tom papa
It's crazy.
It's no way to really understand people.
joe rogan
And you have to be a forceful moderator.
But then when you are a forceful moderator, you're like injecting yourself into this conversation.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
America doesn't want...
That's a good way for people to hate you.
You want people to hate you?
tom papa
Yeah.
To be a shitty moderator.
joe rogan
Be a moderator on a presidential debate.
Everybody's gonna fucking hate you.
tom papa
Everyone's gonna hate your guts.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's...
It's one of those weird, ancient holdovers from the past that is wholly and completely unnecessary and, in fact, probably kind of fucking dangerous.
Because you don't ever get a chance to see what a person's actually like.
You just get a chance to see their show.
Like the Donald Trump show.
Like Donald Trump had a show.
I'd lock you up.
You'd be in jail.
Like that kind of shit.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Everybody cheers and roars.
That's a show.
tom papa
It's who's best at television.
unidentified
Right, right, right.
joe rogan
And he's a fucking television guy.
tom papa
He's a television star.
joe rogan
He's way better than those clowns.
tom papa
A star.
joe rogan
Yes.
And he's afraid of insulting people.
tom papa
When he came through and was debating against the Republicans in that run-up, in all those debates, He got up there like a comedian.
He was like, I'm going to talk about...
I'm in the moment.
I'm going to call everything out.
I'm not going to play this BS of all your little etiquette that you've got going on.
And he was a star.
joe rogan
He was a star.
tom papa
He knows how to work it.
joe rogan
He still does.
This Biden thing that he's doing now.
He's constantly making fun of Biden, calling him Sleepy Joe Biden.
And he shows some misquote that Biden said.
Something about We're here for the facts, not the truth or something like that.
What is the crazy Biden quote that he had that everybody's been making fun of?
Listen, I say stupid shit all the time.
Everybody does who talks a lot.
If you talk a lot, you're going to jumble your words together.
I do it all the time.
tom papa
Of course.
joe rogan
But if you're running for president, man, they find something like that, a jumble here, a jumble there, you better be ready to defend yourself.
tom papa
That's right.
But that's the thing.
Someone has to act the way he acts.
unidentified
Exactly.
tom papa
You've got to be in the moment.
You've got to call things out.
You've got to be honest.
joe rogan
You've got to be a comic.
tom papa
You've got to be a comic.
Trump, when he was running, he reminded me of the comics from Long Island.
Big, loud, insult comics.
joe rogan
Biden tells Iowans we choose truth over facts.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
What does that mean?
That seems like he might have wrote that.
tom papa
Truth over fact.
joe rogan
I'd like to see what he said, how he said it.
How did he say it?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because he might have been like, we choose truth over facts, and that's not good.
unidentified
When we're together.
joe biden
And ladies and gentlemen, it's time to get up.
unidentified
Everybody knows who Donald Trump is.
Even his supporters know who he is.
We gotta let them know who we are.
We choose unity over division.
tom papa
We choose science over fiction.
unidentified
We choose truth over facts.
And so folks, if you're interested, join me.
tom papa
Look, we all mess up a line here and there.
joe rogan
He seems like a remote control with a shitty battery.
You know that one?
Where you're like, it's kinda getting the volume, but not quite.
It kinda changes the channels.
You gotta move it around.
Bro, he's got so little juice left in the tank.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
Donald Trump will chew him up.
Unless he gets a good doctor.
tom papa
You need a good doctor.
joe rogan
He needs to get on steroids immediately.
tom papa
Don't you think Trump takes something?
joe rogan
For sure.
tom papa
Yeah, you can't be that age and not be able...
You gotta take something.
joe rogan
Bro, he's got billions of dollars.
Why wouldn't he take something?
Of course.
Supposedly, he has been on some form of amphetamine prescribed by a doctor in the past.
tom papa
That gives him the sniffles?
That's why he's sniffling all the time?
joe rogan
But he also could have a cold.
I mean, he's fucking 80 years old.
He's the President of the United States.
I'm sure it's a fairly stressful job.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But he...
There was a journalist that was claiming that he had some sort of diet pill prescription.
He even brought up the very pharmacy where he got it fulfilled.
Who knows if it's true or not?
But so many people are on Adderall today.
So, so, so...
tom papa
Have you ever taken it?
joe rogan
No, I have not.
I'm scared.
Jamie gave me some.
I threw it away.
He allegedly gave me some.
Allegedly.
Allegedly because he's not a criminal and I don't have a prescription.
tom papa
I imagine it's probably pretty fun to write with.
joe rogan
I would imagine it would kill a lot of your creativity.
tom papa
You think so?
joe rogan
Yeah, because I think it would be great to organize with.
That's how the late, great Robert Schimmel, that's how he described it to me.
tom papa
I loved him.
joe rogan
I loved him, too.
tom papa
He gave me my first Starbucks ever.
joe rogan
Did he really?
Wow.
You guys were on the road together or something?
tom papa
Yeah, we were in New Jersey.
I'm like, no, you know, I stopped drinking milk and stuff.
He's like, come on, come on, come on.
joe rogan
He was always a sweet guy.
I miss him really bad.
tom papa
Oh, he was so funny.
joe rogan
He was a great person, too.
tom papa
Oh, so sweet.
joe rogan
Yeah, super nice.
Fucking hilarious.
tom papa
So funny.
unidentified
Fucking hilarious.
tom papa
You ever hear his Siegfried and Roy joke?
joe rogan
Yes, yes, yes.
tom papa
This shit ends tonight.
joe rogan
He had so many good things.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
But he had a heart condition, right?
You know that?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he accidentally took an Adderall once.
tom papa
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
He thought he was taking some other medication.
I forget what.
He accidentally took the Adderall.
And he goes, I fucking freaked out.
I called my doctor.
I'm like, hey, tell me what the milligrams is, how much did you take?
He said, I took one of these.
He said, don't worry about it.
But you're going to be wide awake for the next 12 hours.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
It's not going to kill you.
It's not that bad.
tom papa
You're not dying.
joe rogan
And he goes, I went over all my notes.
He goes, I start organizing things.
That's what I've heard from people when they take Adderall.
It makes them want to organize shit.
tom papa
Oh.
joe rogan
Which is weird.
tom papa
But not create, necessarily.
joe rogan
If you give me speed, I'm going to want to go run up a hill or something.
I'm going to want to do something stupid.
tom papa
You have to sit at your desk.
joe rogan
I'm not going to want to organize.
I'm going to be like, yeah!
tom papa
Yeah, your heart would explode.
joe rogan
I just imagine if I'm on some kind of speed, I'm going to want to do something stupid.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, I always have...
tom papa
Yeah, you want to be physical.
joe rogan
Yeah, if I drink coffee, if I drink too much coffee, I just start jumping up and down.
I'm like, fuck you!
I've been drinking a ketone aid with coffee, with caffeine in it.
I forget who makes it.
It's like this little drink.
Uh-huh.
One of the ketone companies that sends me shit.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
There's a bunch of keto companies.
They'll send you stuff.
tom papa
They'll send you stuff.
joe rogan
Hey, try our stuff.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
I apologize to the company, but they make this shit that has caffeine and ketones together.
It's fucking wonderful before exercise.
tom papa
You're grinding your teeth just talking about it.
joe rogan
It makes you want to go crazy.
You want to do a real good weightlifting exercise.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It's good.
It's good, this stuff.
tom papa
Caffeine's good to work out on.
joe rogan
Fuck yeah.
It's great for lifting.
tom papa
It opens you up.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Opens up the vessels.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It makes you shit your brains out, though.
You've got to be careful.
tom papa
Well, that's the fun part.
unidentified
You have to time it correctly.
tom papa
Right?
There's nothing worse than when I go for a run and a half mile in, you're like, uh-oh.
jamie vernon
Called Ketonaid?
joe rogan
Probably.
jamie vernon
Yeah.
Ben Greenfield, I think.
joe rogan
Oh, is that it?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Is it his company?
jamie vernon
Look, I mean.
joe rogan
He's probably just involved with him.
jamie vernon
I looked it up on Amazon.
joe rogan
No, that's not the same stuff.
jamie vernon
You're there.
joe rogan
No, it looks different.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
But I think he's given me some of that, too.
I think it's very similar.
Does that have caffeine in it?
tom papa
You still eat that way predominantly?
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
No?
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
No, it's too rigid, and I wasn't enjoying it as much, but I do eat a very low-carb, high-protein, high-fat diet.
tom papa
That's your balance.
joe rogan
Yeah, but I fuck off.
I'll have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich if I want one.
tom papa
We're going to have so much fun at Musso and Frank's.
unidentified
Woo!
joe rogan
I'm enjoying it.
But I will eat, like, cream of corn, stuff like that.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
But it's like, for me, I try to think of it as an 80-20 thing.
I eat 80% super healthy, and 20% I allow myself questionable choices.
tom papa
That's good.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Not, like, sugar.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Not processed.
Yeah, but not like 20% dessert.
You know what I mean?
tom papa
Right, right.
joe rogan
That's not 20% of my diet.
It's not ice cream or candy or something like that.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
I might have spaghetti with clams.
tom papa
Right, right.
joe rogan
You know what I mean?
tom papa
Bread.
joe rogan
Yeah, which is not the good food.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Vegetables, meat.
That's what I mostly eat.
tom papa
Vegetables, meat.
No fruit?
joe rogan
Yeah, fruit, sure.
tom papa
In the mornings?
joe rogan
Mornings.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Usually before a first workout.
I like fruit.
tom papa
It hydrates you.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's easy, too.
It's easy on your body, and you can work out on fruit with no problems at all.
tom papa
Right, right.
joe rogan
I could run hills with a couple peaches in me.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It's not going to make me sick.
tom papa
How great are peaches right now?
unidentified
I love peaches.
tom papa
Right now.
joe rogan
I love peaches.
tom papa
Peaches are...
Ugh.
joe rogan
How did Georgia get so connected with peaches?
Think about that shit.
Right?
If you think about peaches, you think about Georgia.
There's not a goddamn...
Maybe Hawaii and coconuts, but no.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Right?
It's Georgia and peaches.
tom papa
Georgia and peanuts.
joe rogan
Oh, that's Jimmy Carter, right?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But what other...
Oh, Florida oranges, I guess.
tom papa
Florida oranges.
joe rogan
But I think Georgia peaches...
tom papa
Wisconsin cheese.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, for sure.
tom papa
Yeah.
craig jones
Yeah, but that's like dairy.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's a process.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
That's not food you're making.
But a fruit that grows in...
tom papa
Jersey tomatoes.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's like if you were playing Family Feud, that'd be like...
You said Jersey tomatoes!
tom papa
Let me see tomatoes!
joe rogan
Survey says I'm still doing the voice from the Hogan's Heroes guy as Family Feud.
I don't know if you just noticed that.
tom papa
The Dawson?
Richard Dawson?
joe rogan
He's the original.
I stick with him.
tom papa
You don't go Steve Harvey?
joe rogan
Nope.
Well, there was a guy in between him and Steve Harvey.
tom papa
A guy who committed suicide.
joe rogan
No, there was a guy who killed himself.
tom papa
Oh, yeah, that's right.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Remember that guy?
tom papa
Yes.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Dead on the feud.
joe rogan
Yeah, what did he do?
Did he die while he was hosting it, or did he quit and then kill himself?
tom papa
I don't remember.
joe rogan
He hung himself though right?
tom papa
Yeah I think so.
joe rogan
He was the host of Family Feud right?
tom papa
Yeah.
Yeah, but I think he had...
joe rogan
Was he the second host?
tom papa
I think it was over.
joe rogan
Ray Combs?
Ray Combs, that's right.
tom papa
Ray Combs.
joe rogan
He was the second host, correct?
Probably couldn't live up to the shadow of Richard Dawkins.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's the guy.
Man.
tom papa
He looks sappy.
joe rogan
Tell me that couldn't be a great movie, right?
There's something about that gig.
tom papa
That smile.
joe rogan
Go back to that first picture with his hands up in the air.
I could see...
tom papa
I could play that role.
joe rogan
I could see you playing that role.
I was going to go with Steve Carell, but yes.
tom papa
He's not available.
joe rogan
I'm trying to make some money here.
What if you had a crazy movie about a guy?
Do you remember that movie they did about Hogan's Heroes guy?
About the lead of Hogan's Heroes?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
The guy who was with Richard Dawkins on Hogan's Heroes.
One of the guys who was with it...
What the fuck was his name?
There was a movie called...
tom papa
Not the Gong Show one.
jamie vernon
The movie's called Autofocus.
joe rogan
Autofocus, right.
jamie vernon
Willem Dafoe.
joe rogan
Yes, Willem Dafoe was one guy, but then there was another guy who played the Hogan's Heroes guy.
What the fuck's his name?
Bob...
tom papa
Oh, yes.
jamie vernon
Bob Crane.
tom papa
Bob Crane.
joe rogan
Thank you.
Bob Crane.
tom papa
Wasn't that Greg Kinnear?
joe rogan
Yes.
Greg Kinnear was excellent.
tom papa
Yeah.
He had a real porn habit, right?
joe rogan
He would make porn, and he would make it with Willem Dafoe.
Apparently, they would be filming girls, and then they think the Willem Dafoe character killed him.
But I don't think they ever solved the crime.
tom papa
Ah, really?
joe rogan
I think it was one of those murders where they never totally solved the crime.
tom papa
Is that true?
I'm mashing two movies up.
Because Greg Kinnear also played Chuck Barris from The Gong Show, who was in the CIA. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
That was Confessions of a Dangerous Mind?
Was that it?
tom papa
Something like that.
joe rogan
I feel like that wasn't him, though.
tom papa
Wasn't that him?
joe rogan
Who the fuck remembers anything anymore?
I have too much data in my stupid head.
jamie vernon
It was Sam Rockwell.
tom papa
Sam Rockwell.
That wasn't Kinnear.
Right, right, right.
joe rogan
You know what's an amazing Sam Rockwell movie?
tom papa
The Moon.
unidentified
The Moon.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
He's the whole movie.
tom papa
So good.
joe rogan
I'm telling you folks, this is all I'm going to tell you, but all I'm going to tell you is it's only Sam Rockwell for a whole hour and a half and it's fucking amazing.
tom papa
I saw that in the theater in New York.
joe rogan
So good.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Is there even another actor?
Is there one other actor in the movie?
Maybe?
tom papa
I think you're right.
I think like halfway through or something someone shows up.
joe rogan
I don't want to sell it anymore.
tom papa
It's good.
joe rogan
It's fucking great.
It's a fucking great movie.
tom papa
He's such a good actor.
Did you watch Fosse Verdon?
He played Bob Fosse.
joe rogan
It was on FX. No, it was a TV show?
tom papa
Yeah, about Bob Fosse, you know, the choreographer, and his wife.
joe rogan
I like how you did that.
tom papa
Verdon.
It was like Chicago.
joe rogan
You did a version of Jazz Hands.
tom papa
Yeah.
It's really good.
Yeah, he's really good in it.
joe rogan
He's a great actor, man.
tom papa
Yeah, he's really good.
joe rogan
He was dating Leslie Bibb when Leslie Bibb, I did a movie with Kevin James, and Leslie Bibb was playing Kevin James' girlfriend and my ex-girlfriend, and we were competing for her love, and I got to meet that Sam Rockwell guy.
tom papa
What was the movie?
joe rogan
It was called Zookeeper.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
It's a cute kids movie.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
It's adorable.
tom papa
I love everything Kevin James does.
He just makes me laugh.
joe rogan
He's a great guy, too.
tom papa
Yeah.
Mall cops?
Come on.
joe rogan
Are there modern, pratfall-type, super-physical comedians in movies today?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
He might be the last.
tom papa
Yeah.
He was very athletic.
He was very light on his feet.
joe rogan
Oh, he was a martial artist.
tom papa
Is he?
joe rogan
He's very talented.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
He's very good.
tom papa
I heard he was really good at basketball.
unidentified
Really?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I believe that.
I mean, he eats a lot, for sure.
He would not be denying that, but his martial arts technique is excellent.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's got serious power.
He's got really good punches, really good kicks.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, he had a bunch of different styles of martial arts that he trained when he was coming up.
tom papa
Oh, interesting.
joe rogan
Some of it, I think, some of it was kung fu, some of it was karate.
But he knows what he's doing.
He knows what he's doing.
He played a mixed martial artist in that movie Here Comes the Boom.
tom papa
Right, right.
joe rogan
Yeah, he played a guy who was like a high school coach that was trying to raise money for his school, so he had some UFC fights.
tom papa
He's physically just so funny.
joe rogan
He is funny.
tom papa
I remember the comic strip early on, watching him, I think he was famous already, But he had a bit about picking out greeting cards, being in front of the greeting card aisle.
joe rogan
Yes, yes.
tom papa
Right?
And he would pick them all out and just physically, without a word at times, just looking at the cards.
So damn funny.
joe rogan
He had one of my favorite bits ever about...
It was back in the day when you had automatic locks on a car, and when someone would try to open the door while you were hitting unlock, they would cancel each other out.
So he had this whole super frustrated bit about his girlfriend reaching for the door, and it keeps canceling out, and he's getting more and more frustrated.
tom papa
No, I mean, so many moments of that in King of Queens.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
tom papa
All of his, like, physical, just frustration.
joe rogan
Yeah, but, like, physical guys.
Like, if you really stop and think about it, there's so few.
Like, Chris Farley, of course, was a giant physical talent.
tom papa
Yeah, he was very Ralph Cramden in that way.
Jackie Gleason, a big guy, but very graceful.
joe rogan
Yeah, but, like, um...
He was like an accelerated version, right?
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Of like John Belushi.
Like a larger, bigger, more spastic, more crazy.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, he would fucking get sweaty and scream.
Right.
Whereas Belushi was like really physical too, but it didn't get to that thing.
tom papa
No, his was raw.
Like Farley is more in that Kevin James kind of lightness.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know what Belushi had?
Belushi had like this weird, hilarious feeling of danger.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like he was dangerous, but it was funny.
tom papa
That's what I was going to say.
joe rogan
Like in Animal House.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
He was dangerous.
tom papa
It was reckless.
It was rock and roll.
It was like off kilter.
joe rogan
Yes.
Like when he smashed that guy's guitar when he was playing songs.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
There's danger from him.
tom papa
Yeah.
Blues Brothers?
joe rogan
Yes.
Yes.
It was dangerous.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
That off-kilter kind of thing.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
tom papa
No.
Kevin James, Farley, they had a sweetness.
unidentified
Yes.
tom papa
It wasn't danger.
It was energetic, but always you weren't in danger.
joe rogan
But here's a question.
I'm sure someone could do that Belushi thing without drugs.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
I'm sure.
unidentified
Absolutely.
joe rogan
But no one has.
unidentified
No.
Yeah, I know.
joe rogan
Why am I so sure that someone can do it without drugs?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Is that just being cocky?
tom papa
I don't know.
joe rogan
It's like, hey man, you don't need vitamins.
Just eat bread and lift weights.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
No, you need vitamins.
tom papa
But that was fueled by, yeah, that was cocaine, right?
joe rogan
Cocaine, probably.
tom papa
Yeah.
unidentified
There's a lot of it.
joe rogan
But I think he was doing speedballs, right?
So he was doing cocaine and heroin.
tom papa
Oh, man.
joe rogan
Isn't that how he died?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's how River Phoenix died, too.
tom papa
The Chateau Marmont?
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
joe rogan
That's one of the things about great wild people.
tom papa
Who's really wild now?
joe rogan
Like that?
tom papa
Nobody really, right?
joe rogan
Nobody that we want to throw under the bus.
Yeah.
Like cocaine wildness?
tom papa
Or just like that reckless danger.
I guess what's his name has a little of it in his acting.
Who?
unidentified
Tom...
joe rogan
Tom Hardy?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's pretty reckless.
tom papa
He's got that kind of thing.
I mean, he did two movies...
He did the Dunkirk and Batman with his face completely covered.
And he still was able to emote danger.
And he was just able to express so much with half of his face.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
That guy's pretty serious.
joe rogan
He's a bad motherfucker.
tom papa
Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan
He was even good in that movie Warrior.
You ever see that movie Warrior?
tom papa
Is that when he played two characters?
joe rogan
No.
He played a fighter.
Him and his brother.
It was an MMA movie.
They wound up fighting.
tom papa
I didn't see that one.
joe rogan
Nick Nolte's in it.
Nick Nolte has this incredible...
Incredible performance.
Nick Nolte completely steals the movie as this guy's alcoholic father, who was a formerly trained, both of them.
tom papa
That's a wild man.
joe rogan
He's so good.
You forget how goddamn good Nick Nolte is.
tom papa
Like, whether or not it's drug-fueled or not, there is something to actors who have some manic part to their personality that they can harness, but still...
It's not bullshit when they film it.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
Who's that guy on the left?
tom papa
It doesn't come off as fake.
Nolte.
jamie vernon
Venom.
tom papa
Mickey Rourke.
joe rogan
Oh, it's him from different movies.
Are we saying?
jamie vernon
Yeah, Venom, Warrior, and then Bronson, I think.
joe rogan
Yeah, Bronson was like his first big break.
tom papa
Have you seen the pictures of him playing Capone?
joe rogan
But the Warrior one, look at the one in the middle.
That's what's crazy.
tom papa
Al Capone?
joe rogan
Dude, he got fucking jacked.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
When you see him in the movie, I mean, he looks like a professional fighter.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, there's no ifs, ands, or buts.
tom papa
Nope.
joe rogan
I mean, he really does.
He looks like a guy who could fight in the UFC, physically.
He got his body into that form.
That's hard to do, man.
tom papa
Didn't Hanks get diabetes from going up and down so much?
joe rogan
Who?
tom papa
Tommy Hanks?
joe rogan
Tom Hanks went up and down in weight?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
How dare you compare Tom Hanks to Tom Hardy, first of all?
tom papa
You fuck.
joe rogan
Look at what Tom Hardy did to his fucking body.
Tom Hanks never done that.
tom papa
No, he didn't.
joe rogan
There's not a fucking chance in this world.
tom papa
No, he did the other thing.
He got real big and fat.
joe rogan
Do you know who else did that?
tom papa
But like Castaway, he was really scrawny and then he was like a regular dude.
joe rogan
Maybe he fucked his body over starving himself to death.
tom papa
Jamie, is there a picture of Hardy as Al Capone that's coming out?
jamie vernon
Is that not it?
tom papa
Yeah, it's not a great shot.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do you know who else did that for a movie who got super jacked?
In kind of a crazy way?
Jake Gyllenhaal.
unidentified
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
Look at that.
Look at fucking Robert...
Or Al Pacino, rather.
Dick Tracy villain.
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wow.
Oh, they're saying he looks like a Dick Tracy villain.
They're making fun of him.
tom papa
That's Al Pacino.
joe rogan
Al Capone.
That's a bad shot.
That's Al Pacino playing a Dick Tracy character, right?
tom papa
Yeah.
jamie vernon
He's playing Al Capone and Dick Tracy.
joe rogan
Oh, that's what it was.
jamie vernon
Same character.
Different movies.
unidentified
Google Jake Lillenhall.
tom papa
It's pronounced...
joe rogan
Google that guy from the movie Southpaw.
The movie Southpaw, he was...
Fucking jacked, bro.
He played a boxer.
I mean, fucking shredded.
Dude, look at that.
I mean, he looks like Andre Ward in his prime.
I mean, that's how shredded he is.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
He looks like Roy Jones Jr. almost.
tom papa
He doesn't look like him at all.
joe rogan
Bro, he is so shredded.
tom papa
But how much of that is 3D animation?
Oh yeah?
joe rogan
Yes.
tom papa
You just take steroids and...
joe rogan
Fuck yeah.
I mean, maybe they 3D animated him.
It's possible.
But he looks so good.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
I mean, well, maybe we should Google that.
Okay, why don't you go back to that picture?
Go back to the picture you just had?
How did Jake Lillenhall get so ripped?
Okay, the Manly Man blog.
Click on that shit.
Yeah, I think he probably took some Mexican supplements and worked out like a motherfucker.
But either way, there's no way you get that ripped without insane work.
Insane.
tom papa
You're just doing it all the time.
joe rogan
Right.
All steroids are doing is helping you recover.
Makes you recover.
You'll develop more muscle quicker.
But you have to break down the muscle for the muscle to grow.
So you have to go through the workouts.
tom papa
But doesn't it stimulate the growth of it?
joe rogan
Yes, but you can't be lazy and have that body.
It is fucking impossible.
It says, for five months long, he'd been working out twice a day.
Even on Sundays, his workout regime was about four to six hours a day.
He started training as a fighter, sparring with real opponents and taking in some real punches.
His boxing workout consisted of all the things that a boxer would do.
Shadow boxing, heavy bag, speedball, sparring, focus pads, double end rounds.
He says, I was sparring and really getting hit.
It helped me understand the sacrifice it takes to be a fighter.
You can't play a boxer and just look like a boxer.
You have to believe that you can exist in that world.
tom papa
That's a good actor.
joe rogan
He's an amazing actor.
unidentified
Dedicated.
joe rogan
He's always been an amazing actor.
tom papa
No, he's really good.
joe rogan
He's great in everything.
tom papa
I know.
There was something recently I just saw he was in.
I forget.
joe rogan
Brokeback Mountain.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Stop playing games.
That's what you were watching.
tom papa
Alright.
joe rogan
That's a rare person that can do that.
I don't care what he was taking.
If you're working out six hours a day, there is not a fucking drug in the world that gets you that discipline.
You have to do that.
You have to do that yourself.
You have to force yourself.
It's mostly willpower.
tom papa
Well, I'm pals with Jason Bourne.
joe rogan
Jason Bourne's not a real person.
tom papa
It's not?
I'm sorry, what?
joe rogan
Who do you think Jason Bourne is?
He's a character in a movie.
tom papa
No.
He works for the government.
Wait.
joe rogan
How do you say I'm pals with a...
tom papa
From Bourne Identity?
joe rogan
Yeah, why don't you say I'm pals with Superman?
Makes just as much sense.
Jason Bourne's not a real person.
tom papa
Wait, what?
joe rogan
Who are you saying you're friends with?
tom papa
Jason Bourne.
unidentified
Um...
tom papa
He's...
joe rogan
Matt Damon?
He had three movies.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Okay.
Matt Damon was at the Improv the other night.
tom papa
He was?
joe rogan
Yeah.
I didn't get a chance to say hi if he hears this.
Hi, Matt Damon.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I love that guy.
I'm very impressed with him.
tom papa
He's great.
joe rogan
He seems like a really interesting person, too.
He's a very, very wise person.
tom papa
He is.
He's very smart.
But watching him for the last Bourne movie...
joe rogan
He knows how to fight.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
He's got a great trainer.
Matt Bayamonte?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, look at him.
You're holding your hands up while you're saying his name.
He must be legit.
tom papa
Angelo Dundee.
Did he really?
Yeah, he's legit.
He's a great guy.
But watching the two of them train all the time, and it was like when he dials in, it's like that's their life.
joe rogan
Well, you can tell when you watch someone doing something in a movie whether or not they put the time in.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Like Keanu Reeves in John Wick.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
That motherfucker put in the time.
I'm buying everything.
Hook, line, and sinker.
I'm buying him kicking people's asses.
I'm buying him shooting people.
He shoots guns like a guy who's been tactically trained, like a guy who's a real assassin.
I buy every fucking second of it.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Even though it's cartoonish and over the top and crazy.
tom papa
Sure, sure.
But you can tell.
joe rogan
Yeah, when he grabs people, flips them on their head and breaks their arm and stomps their head and then shoots them when they're down, I'm in.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah, he did it.
joe rogan
He did it.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It's legit.
tom papa
That's why I do more comedic roles.
joe rogan
That's a good move, dude.
Way less pounding on the joints.
Like my friend Tate, Tate Fletcher, he just got a concussion from doing a scene in a movie where he was doing some stunt work.
Tate does a lot of acting, but he also does a lot of stunt work, too.
And he hit his head and hurt it real bad.
He's real light-sensitive right now, and he's taking CBD. Oh, man.
Yeah, and Tate had a career as a fighter as well.
So he fought in the UFC. He had quite a few professional fights.
And a lot of sparring in between the professional fights.
A lot of sparring rounds.
So he's kind of sensitive to getting hit in the head anyway.
He doesn't want to get hit in the head anymore.
For him to fall on the set.
tom papa
Oof.
joe rogan
That world of a stuntman, like we were talking about Gene LaBelle and the Brad Pitt character, those are the toughest fucking people in Hollywood.
tom papa
Oh man, come on.
joe rogan
Toughest animals.
It's a hard way to make a living, man.
You're always falling out of the back of trucks and wrecking motorcycles on purpose.
Yeah, exactly.
unidentified
Fuck, man.
tom papa
I wonder if the number of stuntmen has gone down since animation 3D stuff has started...
joe rogan
That's interesting.
tom papa
...has improved.
I bet there's a lot less of it.
joe rogan
I bet you're right.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
But for some things, you need a stunt person.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You need someone also to tell you...
Those guys are so wild, though.
like we had stunt guys that developed a lot of the uh events on fear factor they developed a lot of them like a lot of times what would happen was like the producers would come to the stuntman and the stuntman and they would say hey this is what we want to do we want to take a helicopter and throw someone off in a fucking bungee bungee cord in between these two mountains like can we do this without killing anybody and then the stunt guys has to look at it and say okay let me see how we can make this so that no one dies right
but they are willing to take so much more risk than regular personally Their idea of you getting hurt, they're not worried about getting hurt like a normal person.
tom papa
Right, no.
That's like Alex Honnold, right?
The guy, he really doesn't have fear.
joe rogan
No, no, no, no.
He's, that's different.
tom papa
Is it?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, that's different.
Because the stuntman, that would be if Alex Honnold was telling you, you can climb that wall.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Because he's doing it himself, and he knows he's really good at it.
The thing about the stunt guys is, the stunt guys, They're not trying to get anybody hurt, but they're not worried about getting hurt themselves.
Their idea of getting hurt is slightly different than a regular person's because they're just so fucking tough.
And they're used to doing it.
They're used to jumping off fucking horses and shit.
So we had this one event where they were making the contestants ride bulls.
And there's only two times in the history of that show where I was like, don't do this.
Don't do this.
And that was a big one.
And I was like, you guys are crazy.
These are bulls.
And this is really what he said to me, the stunt guy said.
He goes, oh, don't worry about it, boo.
These are stunt bulls.
I go, they're stunt bulls.
He goes, yeah, they're less aggressive.
I go, does that bull know he's a stunt bull?
I bet he thinks he's a bull.
I bet he thinks he's a bull, and I bet he's not going to like the fact that all these fucking people are riding him.
Because you're having like eight people ride him, or I don't know how many people, like six, six people ride him.
tom papa
If I wasn't a stunt bull, I'd be so pissed right now.
joe rogan
Dude, that bull launched these people through the fucking air.
Launched them the way you would shake a tennis ball off your forehand.
If you had a tennis ball in your hand, you would just do it like that.
It would go flying.
That's what those people did with these...
That's what the bull did with these people.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
Literally, if you took a ball and just underhanded it, people would fly!
tom papa
Did anyone get really hurt in the taping of that show at all?
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
Not once?
joe rogan
That is, come on, seven.
That's what that was.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
That was a lot of that.
For sure with the bolt one.
Because the bolt one, the bolt kicked in the air and was just barely missing people's heads.
tom papa
Jesus.
joe rogan
Dude, I was watching.
I was like, this is fucking crazy.
I told everyone to not do it.
I was like, don't do it.
The people are like, well, I want to get that 50 grand.
I go...
Listen to me, man.
I get what you're saying, but this is not the time for you.
You weigh 98 pounds.
tom papa
This is a fucking bull.
There's another way to get this money.
joe rogan
It just seems like a way to get injured for the rest of your life.
tom papa
What about Mark Wahlberg?
You see all his videos, how he gets up at 2.30 and goes into the gym?
You ever see his Instagram?
joe rogan
I have not.
I did see a thing with him and James Corden, though.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
Where James tried to do the workouts with him.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
They went over to Marky Mark's basement, and they worked out together.
tom papa
He keeps posting, like, he gets up at 2.30, they're in the gym at 3. His home gym's incredible.
And he goes to bed at 7 o'clock, because he's up at 2, and he's...
joe rogan
Wow.
It's obviously working for him.
Super disciplined guy.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he's in great shape.
But James Corden tried to do the workout with him.
It's pretty funny.
unidentified
That's pretty funny.
joe rogan
He's got a gym in his house that's like a gym gym.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Going to the gym.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
That's his whole house.
So this section of his house where the gym is is epic.
So they had all these crazy workouts they were doing.
tom papa
Wow.
Well, I guess if those are the roles that you're playing, you gotta do it.
joe rogan
Badasses.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
He's always doing, like he played Mickey Ward in that movie The Fighter.
Remember that?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's always doing those action roles.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But, you know, you could sleep in, too.
unidentified
Still work out at 10. Yeah, why do you have to be in at 2.30 in the morning?
joe rogan
I'm not totally...
tom papa
That's not healthy for you.
joe rogan
The only thing that's big about that is that you know that you are getting up early.
You know.
Like my friend Jocko.
He gets up every day at 4.30 in the morning and his entire Instagram is photos of his watch.
At 4.30 in the morning and then crazy workouts that he's doing.
Or shooting his bow or, you know, he's doing jujitsu.
When do you wake up?
I usually wake up around 7 or 8. I like to do different things early in the morning.
I like to take yoga some mornings.
I like to lift weights some mornings.
I don't generally like to do jiu-jitsu at 8 in the morning.
I like to do jiu-jitsu around noon to wake up.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
I like to eat something, too, because it's so ruthless.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't want to be hungry in Jiu-Jitsu class.
I want to be hydrated and fueled two hours after a meal.
That's why I want to go into something like that.
But something where I can just push myself and I don't worry about being strangled.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Kettlebells or something like that.
I'll do a brutal kettlebell workout first thing in the morning.
I'll just have a caffeine drink and maybe a couple pieces of fruit.
tom papa
And just go.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
That's good.
Now, you do spots late at night, so do you shut it down at some point during the day?
Do you nap?
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
No.
You never nap?
joe rogan
No.
No.
I don't think I need it.
tom papa
Interesting.
joe rogan
I don't feel it ever helps.
tom papa
Right.
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'd rather power through.
But I get it if you need it.
If I felt like I needed it.
Like, I definitely took a bunch of naps when I got back from Italy because I was whacked out.
Because I would sleep.
tom papa
It was the time changing.
joe rogan
Yeah, it fucked me up, man.
I would sleep for like three hours and then I would wake up and I'd be like, why am I wide awake?
It's two in the morning.
It's just so stupid.
And then I would be up and then I'd get really sleepy around six.
I'd try to sleep for an hour before I had to wake up.
Then I woke up again.
I would take a nap in the afternoon.
It took like a good four or five days before that leveled out and I started sleeping on a normal schedule.
tom papa
But you work out so much, you're burning energy.
Usually when you're really in shape, you don't need naps.
But you should use TM for your brain.
joe rogan
Yeah, that sounds like I should do it.
Why don't you just give me a mantra?
Why don't you come up with a mantra for me?
Why don't you become my instructor?
You've been doing it long enough.
I don't want to go to some other dude.
tom papa
Diaz.
joe rogan
Just Diaz?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which one?
Nick or Joey?
How about Nate?
tom papa
Nate.
joe rogan
Nate Diaz?
tom papa
No, Joey.
joe rogan
Joey?
Joey Diaz?
Just think Joey Diaz.
tom papa
Joey Diaz.
You could just do it.
You could just create a, just use OM. I mean, I don't understand why.
joe rogan
Yeah, why do you have a mantra?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Tell us your mantra, bro.
tom papa
I can't.
joe rogan
Come on.
tom papa
I can't.
joe rogan
Tom.
tom papa
I'm not allowed.
They'll come and get me.
joe rogan
That's so not true.
tom papa
Huh?
joe rogan
That's so not true.
tom papa
No, they won't come and get me, but it's kind of a personal thing because it has no meaning.
If I say it, then you're going to say something back.
Now there's something attached to it.
That's why you don't say it.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
tom papa
You know what I mean?
It's a pure word.
It's just a pure sound that has no mental attachments to it.
joe rogan
In the earliest days of religion, wasn't it a problem if you said God's name?
Aren't there, like, certain sects of religion that don't think that you should say God's name?
Like, whatever God's name is?
Whatever it's...
tom papa
Todd?
joe rogan
Yeshua?
Or whatever it is.
Whatever the name of God is.
Isn't...
Why am I... I'm trying to remember this.
tom papa
Sounds like a Jordan Peterson thing.
joe rogan
Yeah, he would know.
He would know the answer to it.
tom papa
Yeah.
Well, obviously!
I like the way he says, obviously.
joe rogan
That's pretty good.
That's very Canadian.
You might be a Canadian spy.
tom papa
Well, obviously!
You can't talk about the name without it coming back at you, obviously!
It's pretty good, right?
joe rogan
He's one of the most misinterpreted guys I think I've ever met.
Not just willfully misinterpreted, where people take the words and the things that he's saying and willfully misconstrue them.
They purposefully Change what he's saying to make it more offensive, more unreasonable.
People are angry.
tom papa
Why?
joe rogan
Well, it's hard to say.
I think part of it has to do with the way he initially came onto the scene.
tom papa
Oh, because of the transgender thing?
joe rogan
Yes.
He was very concerned that they were forcing people to use certain language, new pronouns.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And people are saying, like, why do you have a problem with people's pronouns?
And he's saying, that's not what I'm saying.
The problem is not whether or not I would have a problem with someone's pronouns.
The problem is being legally compelled to use these new words that someone's inventing.
He's like, I am not doing this.
tom papa
Right, the government telling me how I can speak.
joe rogan
Exactly.
Not just that, the government also being influenced by people who want you to be legally compelled to say their pronouns.
It's a slippery slope of control more than it is a thing of culture or of morals or compassion or being progressive.
He's not saying that.
He's saying it based on his very deep understanding of history and of some communist dictatorships that have gone horribly wrong, horribly wrong some Marxist philosophies that he's aware of that he thinks are horribly damaging and dangerous if implemented on a large scale.
Like if you allow large groups of people to control language and to legally compel people to say these new words that you're inventing.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
He's like, this is not good.
This is a bad path for humans.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Just historically, it's a bad path.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And so that's how he broke onto the scene.
And in that time period, all these people who opposed what he was saying, they were labeling him as transphobic.
They were labeling him as homophobic.
All these different things that are not true.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Then he gets connected to this Pepe the Frog thing, right?
Because he thinks it's kind of hilarious that the internet has taken on Pepe the Frog as like this meme.
The feels good man frog.
tom papa
I don't know that.
joe rogan
You didn't know the whole thing?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Wow, where have you been living, man?
Stop meditating and read the fucking newspaper.
tom papa
No, but I listen to them all the time.
I didn't know any of this.
joe rogan
You don't know if Pepe the Frog is racist?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Okay, this is serious.
tom papa
Okay.
joe rogan
You have to know this, because if somebody wants you to take a picture with this fucking Pepe the Frog thing, there are a certain group of people out there who will decide Tom Papa is some sort of alt-white, white nationalist, white supremacist, Nazi person.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
No bullshit.
A fucking frog.
tom papa
A frog?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
Yeah.
You know why?
tom papa
Why?
joe rogan
Because some people have used that frog in a negative way.
Most people use that frog as a joke.
Like, it feels bad, man, and the frog is like, hmm.
tom papa
It's an animated thing?
joe rogan
It's just a frog.
Just a cartoon of a frog.
tom papa
Okay.
joe rogan
But the alt-right, or I shouldn't even say the alt-right, people on internet forums would constantly and consistently use that frog as a joke about everything.
Like they had Donald Trump's hair on that frog.
But it's more humor and mocking and making fun of things.
And as the British would say, taking the piss.
He's taking the piss with the frog.
But...
There were a few that would have the frog with like a swastika armband and a fucking Nazi hat on.
unidentified
Sure.
Why?
joe rogan
Because they're internet people.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Like, you leave something on the internet off there long enough, someone's going to put a Nazi flag on.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It doesn't mean that it's a symbol of Nazis, or that it's a symbol of white supremacy, because that's not what it was.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And so he dared logically argue this.
And people were very, very upset.
tom papa
And they thought he was defending...
joe rogan
Yes.
He's defending white nationalists.
He's saying, no, no, no.
It's a fucking cartoon frog, guys.
And it's not only that.
It's a cartoon frog written by a guy who specifically sued people to get them to stop using the cartoon flag.
Even Alex Jones had to pay out a lawsuit because InfoWars used an image of that cartoon flag.
Can you see if that's true?
I'm pretty sure that's true.
But it was a nominal amount.
He lost it in court, but it was a very small...
$15,000 he had to pay.
For Alex, that's not a lot of money.
jamie vernon
Settlement.
joe rogan
It's a settlement.
So I'm sure he paid way more in legal fees to deal with something like that.
jamie vernon
I'm sure.
joe rogan
If they had to put together some sort of a defense for $15,000, I'm sure that would probably cost a shitload of money.
But the point is that this frog has all these different meanings.
So as soon as it gets connected, though, to an awful thing, then immediately you've got to go, oh, okay, well, you can never use that frog again.
Because now the frog's corrupted.
Now, given what we know, and here's where it gets really weird, given what we know about the internet and specifically foreign influence on memes, like Russia, there were factories that were making funny memes about Hillary Clinton, Right.
Funny memes about all kinds of things.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And doing so in order to get people upset or to laugh or to mock certain ideas and push the narrative one way or another through humor.
And they made some really funny ones.
There was a woman named Renee DiResta.
She came on the podcast.
She was explaining.
For a project, she had to go through hundreds of thousands of these things.
tom papa
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
She's like, some of them were really funny.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And these were ones that they know were made by Russians.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They were made to try to get people upset about certain things.
unidentified
Jeez.
joe rogan
How many of those Pepe the Frog things came from?
Came from that.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
How many?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Because if you had a frog that was mocking everybody, and the frog, like, was a really good symbol to make someone think that you're a fool.
So, like, you say something ridiculous, and you're trying to push for something, and then that frog is in a meme with you, what you're saying, but he looks like an idiot.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
All of a sudden, you look like an idiot.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And the frog's mocking you.
Like, you can't beat the frog.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But you can turn the frog into a Nazi.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Now a Nazi.
tom papa
So he got caught up in this?
joe rogan
Yeah.
He took a photo with these guys.
And he's talked about Pepe the Frog on my podcast.
Talked about it.
Explained the whole thing to me in depth.
And yet I've seen articles connecting him to white nationalists because there's a photo of him with the frog.
tom papa
Jeez Louise.
joe rogan
Pull up photo of Jordan Peterson with Pepe the Frog.
Because he took a photo with these guys where they had like a frog flag.
And he thought it as what we're just saying.
That there's these guys that are taking the piss.
tom papa
It's like a flat Stanley or something.
Exactly.
Right?
He thought it's like an innocent...
joe rogan
A man's internet version of Flat Stanley.
And it's, I think, primarily a 4chan thing.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Jamie knows this shit more than I do, honestly.
There he is.
So, see?
He's standing there with these guys.
tom papa
Oh, God.
joe rogan
These two fellas are holding up this Pepe the Frog flag, and Jordan's laughing and smiling with them.
And one of them has a, I think it's a Make America Great Again hat on.
Look, these kids are human trolls.
They're alive.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
Think of a troll on the internet.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then think of one that thinks it's hilarious to be out there in public trolling with Peppy the Frog flag and a Make America Great Again hat.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
He's fucking with people.
This is what this is.
It's a lot of what internet culture is.
Jordan understands this and talks about it and discusses it in length and he makes it make sense.
So that's one other reason why people are upset at him.
It's just very easy to label people in certain ways today.
It's very easy to label someone as a misogynist.
tom papa
But if you listen to the breadth of his work, this is not a bad person.
joe rogan
He's a He's a very good person.
tom papa
He's very enlightening.
There's a lot of real practical ways to, as he says, clean up your room and live right.
joe rogan
Well, he's a personal friend of mine.
I like him very much as a human.
tom papa
Well, obviously, how do you say?
You think about these things.
You're trying to...
You're trying to have a conversation.
joe rogan
It shows how actually articulate he is because you can't come up with things that he would say that make sense.
tom papa
Well, I know.
It's hard, right?
There's no catchphrase for him.
Obviously, clean up your damn room!
Clean up your damn room!
joe rogan
He's got a lot of great advice.
And he's also a very, very insightful person.
unidentified
And he's not a bad guy at all.
joe rogan
It's just people have this horrible thing that they do today where when they want to dismiss someone instead of...
Instead of listening to them and debating the points that they have or analyzing them in an objective kind way, they try to attack.
Everybody's attacking.
Everything sucks.
Everybody sucks.
Everybody's stupid.
Everybody's racist.
Everybody's dumb.
Everybody's ridiculous.
Everybody's a liar.
Everybody's shit.
tom papa
You're not on my team.
You're on someone else's team.
joe rogan
There's just so much of that today.
It's unnecessary.
tom papa
I really enjoy listening to him.
I enjoy all those biblical speeches that he gives about trying to interpret the Old Testament and stuff like that.
It's very, very interesting.
I've never heard somebody connect Our practical, trying to find our way through the woods to those writings.
Like, you always just heard of it as growing up as a Catholic kid.
You just kind of heard them as like, they're stories and they're obviously, you know, they're metaphors and whatever.
But I never heard somebody really say, no, it's how you treat your father and the way you're trying to figure out your way through life.
That's what these things mean.
Like, you know, he is a, it's a very fascinating listener.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's got a very unusual way of interpreting biblical verses and stories from the Bible, stories from other religions as well, where he's explaining how it sort of interfaces with man's search for meaning.
tom papa
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
It's like a practical way to kind of approach the world.
In a time when we have nothing to hang on to, it's kind of interesting stuff to think about.
joe rogan
Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why some people think that it's survived as long as it has, that there is some merit in using it as a framework for living your life.
tom papa
Yeah, you know, there's like some practice, like we were saying earlier, of having some kind of a guidebook, you know, to get you through life, like even just in the etiquette manner stuff.
It's also the big stuff.
It's like...
You know, I had a friend whose father passed away and it's like, it's a hard thing when you don't have a framework, a guidebook to help you deal with that and get through the woods and you're just kind of out there on your own.
joe rogan
Right, they're just gone, they're not in heaven.
tom papa
Right.
And I'm watching my grandparents, my two grandmothers who went to church all the time.
And they didn't muddy themselves with whether or not this was the answer.
But it gave them structure.
And it gave them, okay, so the neighbor died, and we go to the church, and we go to the wake, and we go to the thing, and then we have cake, and then we sit and pay visit to his widower, to the widow, the next week.
Like, these things, these roots, these pathways made them very happy people.
It wasn't like kind of overthinking, well, is the church bullshit?
They didn't care about that.
They didn't get into, maybe it is, maybe it's not, is it...
Is it all the answers?
They didn't get that far.
They just got, this is how you deal with this funeral of your neighbor.
You know what I mean?
There's like that practical little guidebook stuff that we kind of lack right now.
joe rogan
Like Wild West Christianity, right?
One of the things about Wild West films, maybe it's accurate, maybe it's not.
But one of the things that I always enjoyed is the simplistic way that they interface with the world.
The way they discuss the way things are.
Well...
I guess we're just going to have to go do that, man.
There wasn't a lot of hemming and hawing, and everybody just got stuff done.
And they had that sort of pioneer mentality, right?
Like, they were rough folks.
So if they were talking about Jesus and what a good God-fearing Christian would do, they had a very clear and distinct framework for where they would operate.
They played by those rules.
Yeah, I'm a good Christian, so this is how I feel.
And you'd be like, wow, the simplicity and ruggedness of this guy's vision...
tom papa
Yeah, yeah.
And then, you know, is it corrupted by people?
Yeah.
Is it, you know, do they use that to go attack some Native Americans?
joe rogan
What's hotter than, like, a pioneer woman who's hot?
tom papa
Ooh.
joe rogan
Like a pioneer-type woman who's actually hot, who can, like, do chores and shit and works hard.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know what I mean?
Like, she's surviving.
Like, you're out there, both of you are clawing and scratching.
She's hot as fuck, though.
Hot as fuck, but yet a pioneer woman.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Something sexy as fuck about that, right?
tom papa
That's a good one.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
That's a good one.
And they had those big fluffy things they wore on their legs under the dresses.
joe rogan
Yeah, like fucking robbers are trying to take over the wagon, just shooting at them.
tom papa
Pew, pew, pew.
joe rogan
Yeah, some dudes with masks on.
unidentified
I got your paw!
jamie vernon
Like the first season of Westworld?
joe rogan
Yeah, like that girl.
tom papa
I got your paw!
joe rogan
That's right, that girl from Westworld, hot as fuck.
She's so hot.
There she is.
God damn, dude, that's the perfect world.
That's the perfect woman.
A really, really hot, badass western chick.
What is that woman's name again?
She's really good too.
tom papa
I don't think that she'd...
joe rogan
Whatever her name is as an actress.
What's her name as an actress?
tom papa
Would she like an L.A. comedian though?
joe rogan
What's that?
tom papa
Would she like an L.A. comedian?
joe rogan
Only a bald one who makes bread.
Evan Rachel Wood.
She's hot.
She's not just hot.
She's a really good actor.
She's really good.
You believe she's a struggling robot trying to figure out if she's real or not.
Trying to figure out what these memories that she has are.
But she's also hot as the sun.
tom papa
Woo!
joe rogan
She is beautiful.
She's not just beautiful.
She's a very specific kind of beautiful.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Like an uncorrupted beauty.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
She ain't like a hoe.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
She's not out there with like something.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Her ass sticking out, like washing a car.
She's hot.
tom papa
She has dignity.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well...
tom papa
She's a robot.
joe rogan
She's a robot.
But don't show that one.
That's not a good picture of her.
Get one of her when she's in a dress.
tom papa
Someone has a very personal relationship with this.
joe rogan
Yes!
Shut your mouth, bro!
She's my hot robot friend.
tom papa
Back off.
joe rogan
If robots were that close to people, if you could actually make love to a robot, that Westworld concept, the freakiest part of that is that they fuck these things and kill these things.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Not that these things become sentient and they realize it and they try to escape the park.
tom papa
Do they feel like they've got skin?
joe rogan
Like it feels like a person?
You can't distinguish.
They don't even know sometimes if they're robots.
unidentified
How about that?
joe rogan
That's how good it is.
tom papa
That's pretty great.
I'd have sex with a robot.
joe rogan
Fuck yeah, you would.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
He'd probably have sex with a balloon.
tom papa
I was going to say, there's not much I wouldn't.
joe rogan
Probably have sex with a lot of stuff.
It's just a matter of like, what if someone said, if you don't have sex with this thing, your whole family dies.
You'd have sex with it.
I hate when someone says, oh, I would never fuck a pineapple.
Yes, you would.
If your life depended on it, if someone had a gun to your fucking head and said, you fuck that pineapple or I'm going to kill your dog.
tom papa
Fine.
joe rogan
You'll fuck the pineapple.
You have to just reach a breaking point.
tom papa
Please.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
I'd do it again.
joe rogan
So, have you paid attention to this Jeffrey Epstein stuff?
tom papa
Yeah, a little bit.
joe rogan
What do you think is going on?
tom papa
I think...
I think he...
joe rogan
If you had a guess.
tom papa
I think that too many very powerful people...
He had stuff on too many very powerful people.
joe rogan
Likely, right?
tom papa
Probably.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They took the guy off suicide watch, even though he's one of the most important witnesses.
tom papa
Yeah, weird.
joe rogan
In a really creepy, high-profile case that might have connected a bunch of really powerful people.
tom papa
Yeah.
I don't necessarily believe that it's, you know, the people from, like, it's Trump or it's the Democrats.
I think there's other very powerful people that would have wanted this guy to go away.
joe rogan
Oh, for sure.
We have no idea how many very powerful people want this guy to go away.
He could sing.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
He could sing for his freedom.
tom papa
My question is, is there...
Didn't they get a whole bunch of evidence and stuff from him that these powerful people would have...
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
Where is all that stuff?
tom papa
Yeah.
jamie vernon
You said you didn't know that he had a cellmate.
This was the guy that was his cellmate.
joe rogan
That's his cellmate?
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
How hard do you think that guy fucked him?
jamie vernon
He's a former cop.
joe rogan
Jeffrey Epstein reportedly wasn't checked on for hours before his apparent suicide.
That guy found him there?
Why do we think that that guy didn't kill him?
tom papa
They left a rope in there?
joe rogan
That guy could definitely kill him without leaving any evidence.
tom papa
That guy looks like he could do some damage.
Look at the guy's arms.
joe rogan
That guy could just wrap Jeffrey Epstein up in a bear hug and hang him himself.
tom papa
Maybe he just choked him.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean, he could put that noose around Epstein's neck and then squeeze his arms together and just pull on it until the guy hangs to death and then go, oh my god, I found him hanged.
tom papa
That guy's jacked.
joe rogan
Imagine you go to jail in a high-profile case and they throw you in there with a giant bald guy.
tom papa
That's like Grossberger from Stir Crazy.
joe rogan
But look at this.
This is like caricature of the guy you don't want to be stuck in a prison with.
tom papa
It literally is the guy.
In the bad movie, that's the guy waiting for you in the cell.
jamie vernon
Ex-cop.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He looks like...
What is his name?
tom papa
What'd he go to jail for?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Look at his name.
tom papa
Tartaglione!
joe rogan
Nicholas Tartaglione!
tom papa
The deaths of four men.
Stepping from an alleged cocaine drug conspiracy.
joe rogan
And bro, he's that big and he's 51. How many cops are smuggling steroids in their asshole to get to this guy?
How's he staying that big?
tom papa
So he hung himself?
So they had like a belt or a rope left in there with him?
joe rogan
This guy probably said, listen, if you keep getting me the juice, I'll keep this fucking guy on ice.
Right.
They said this is the one conspiracy where nobody believes the true story that I've talked to.
tom papa
No, nobody.
joe rogan
Except Michael Shermer.
tom papa
Who?
joe rogan
Michael Shermer, the guy who runs Skeptics Magazine.
He's a friend of mine.
Nice guy.
I couldn't disagree with him more.
He thinks that things just happen and people kill themselves.
That's his take on it.
tom papa
He likes a lot of conspiracies?
joe rogan
No, no.
He silences conspiracies.
He's never met a conspiracy he likes.
He doesn't like any conspiracies.
And this one is almost predictable.
He's right in a way.
tom papa
And he's still like now?
joe rogan
He's right in a way.
And I think his concept is, pull up his tweets so we can read what he's saying.
tom papa
I mean, you're not in a good place.
You can see wanting to kill yourself.
Oh yeah, for sure.
joe rogan
Make that larger, please.
jamie vernon
I don't know where he started.
joe rogan
Just make it larger.
tom papa
It just seems...
joe rogan
Scroll down a little bit there.
Okay.
A new conspiracy theory developed on Epstein regarding suicide.
They made it happen on purpose.
Okay, here it is.
Scroll down.
If some no-name pedophile died by suicide in prison awaiting trial, would anyone bother concocting conspiracy theories about him being murdered by clandestine outside forces?
Of course not.
As with JFK, Diana, Marilyn, et al., fame warps perspective and fuels unwarranted speculation.
First of all, This is not unwarranted.
Second of all, if you don't think that powerful people have people killed, you're hilarious.
Like, that is willfully naive.
They do do it.
It says, True.
unidentified
Sure.
joe rogan
You shouldn't do that.
It is possible.
But what are the odds?
There's something where it stinks so bad.
tom papa
Because he's in so many circles and touched so many super powerful people.
It's different.
joe rogan
Super powerful people.
Not only that.
tom papa
He's not just a pedophile like he's saying.
joe rogan
Somebody gave him a $70 million house in New York City.
tom papa
Gave him?
joe rogan
Gave him.
One of his clients.
Gave him.
jamie vernon
He was the power of attorney at the time, so he signed it over to himself.
joe rogan
But the guy let him do that.
jamie vernon
That's the question, is whether or not he even knew what was happening.
joe rogan
Oh, come on.
Like he just stole the house from the guy?
jamie vernon
He was in control of a lot of stuff.
That's what's coming out now.
joe rogan
A $70 million house?
Who gave it to us?
jamie vernon
That's what's coming out now.
joe rogan
But how would the guy who he signed it off on, how would the guy not know this guy stole his house and not sue him?
jamie vernon
He was in control of all of his finances.
joe rogan
Right, but he was living in the house.
jamie vernon
Who?
tom papa
The guy?
jamie vernon
Wexner?
joe rogan
No!
Epstein.
jamie vernon
He bought the house for him, basically.
joe rogan
That's what I'm saying.
The guy bought it for Epstein.
jamie vernon
Right.
joe rogan
But who fucking buys you a $70 million house?
jamie vernon
Hey, I don't know.
tom papa
No one's bought me nothing!
joe rogan
There's so many questions about this guy, about where his wealth was, and then the color of his house.
tom papa
Didn't he?
jamie vernon
The eyeballs on the entrance and stuff.
The shit about the house is crazy, too.
joe rogan
Well, there's cameras inside the house and shit, but the other thing was the house that's on the island that is the same color.
It's painted in the same way the Israeli flag is.
And there was an idea.
People are wondering how far this guy's influence goes and where it comes from.
Look at this house.
Bro.
tom papa
That was his house?
joe rogan
That was his house on this fucking island.
jamie vernon
On the island, it was like a building there.
joe rogan
That's a temple we had on his island.
Bro, that's a dope temple, by the way.
That thing looks awesome.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
I would love that if that was my house.
Come on in.
tom papa
How'd he get so much money?
joe rogan
Exactly.
No one really knows.
tom papa
Didn't he have something to do with Victoria's Secret?
joe rogan
Yeah, he managed some money for the Victoria's Secrets guy that owned that.
He's the guy who gave him the house.
unidentified
You know, Bill Clinton flew on his private jet no less than 26 times.
joe rogan
Whatever.
No big deal.
tom papa
He was a good guy.
unidentified
Yeah, but I mean, I flew with him 26 times.
joe rogan
I've never flown with...
It would have to be my very best friends that I tour with all the time.
Have I flown with you 26 times?
jamie vernon
Maybe four or five.
Not privately ever.
joe rogan
Maybe if we flew together.
It might be a little more than four or five.
It might be ten.
It might be ten.
I've known you for years.
It's not been 26 times.
So Bill Clinton is flying with this one guy.
Why he's the President of the United States, I think.
Was he still President then?
jamie vernon
It was afterwards.
joe rogan
Afterwards, I'm done.
tom papa
I flew with Jerry probably 20 times.
joe rogan
Hey man, I'm making money.
I like flying with Jeffrey.
I don't have to pay.
I mean, that's a lot of times.
To be partying with a dude, you would think that you would find out about how that guy fucks.
jamie vernon
When he had a plane on the plane was sort of when he fucked up, because that's when he stopped flying under the radar.
joe rogan
Who did?
Jeffrey Epstein?
jamie vernon
Yeah, when that day happened, I was like, uh-oh.
And he's been hiding ever since then, because that was like 2003 or 2004. Oh, really?
That's when he got busted, was shortly after that.
tom papa
He's been on the run since then.
Wasn't Trump talking about it with Howard?
Howard Stern.
joe rogan
What was he talking about?
Oh, about how he likes the ladies.
tom papa
Like, why were they talking about him?
joe rogan
I don't know.
unidentified
Because he was arrested or something?
joe rogan
No, no, no.
tom papa
He was just in the news?
joe rogan
The arrest was later, and that was part of the problem was that with the arrest, the arrest was for some sexual thing with underage girls, and he got a really light sentence.
And then more people were freaking out about it.
And then one woman pursued this pretty heavily.
She was a journalist, and she pursued this story, right?
That's where I was trying to tell you.
jamie vernon
I tried to find out the Miami Herald, but that book I was telling you, I just read about James Patterson.
He said everything that kind of came out in that story, they already wrote about about 2016. And for some reason, the media didn't really pick up on it.
He said he wrote letters to everyone.
joe rogan
Well, yeah, that was when this guy got that really light sentence was around there.
But this one woman kept writing about it.
Pull up the name of this woman.
Because this one woman really doggedly pursued this story.
And it was because of her.
And I think a lot of it had to do with her recognition that this guy had gotten this creepy light sound.
Julie Brown.
Not to be confused with downtown Julie Brown.
unidentified
Remember her?
jamie vernon
Yeah, I do.
joe rogan
Julie K. Brown.
tom papa
She was great.
joe rogan
Like Michael B. Jordan.
The actor?
Not the world's greatest.
tom papa
No one wants their name even close to this story.
joe rogan
How about James Brown, the fucking sportscaster?
Imagine that?
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
That guy, nice guy.
James Brown, the sportscaster?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
How the fuck do you call yourself James Brown?
How dare you?
Like, he owns that, right?
unidentified
Ow!
joe rogan
Like Michael Jackson.
If you're Michael Jackson and you're a singer, what?
You're who?
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Right?
Yeah.
Don't you have anyone in your camp telling you this is a bad idea?
joe rogan
Isn't there two of those cuts like a knife guys?
What's that guy's name?
The guy from Canada?
tom papa
Um...
unidentified
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.
joe rogan
Brian...
tom papa
Brian Adams.
joe rogan
Brian Adams.
There's a new guy.
tom papa
There's Brian and there's Ryan.
joe rogan
Oh, there's Ryan.
Again, change your fucking name.
tom papa
Ryan got in trouble too.
joe rogan
How about Ricky Adams?
He'd be Ricky Adams.
tom papa
Ricky Adams?
joe rogan
Whatever happened to Brian Adams, man?
That Cuts Like a Knife guy?
tom papa
Cuts Like a Knife!
joe rogan
That guy was awesome.
tom papa
Summer of 69?
joe rogan
Yeah.
He had some great jams.
tom papa
I think he's still playing casinos.
jamie vernon
Yeah.
tom papa
Really?
I've seen him.
jamie vernon
What's the show tonight?
tom papa
Where?
jamie vernon
Bristow, Virginia.
unidentified
There you go.
joe rogan
We should all go to see him.
We should make a road trip.
tom papa
Yeah.
I'm sure it's a good show.
joe rogan
We really have to start doing stuff like that.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Make road trips just to go to see ridiculous shows.
tom papa
Yeah.
Def Leppard's out there.
Journey's out there.
joe rogan
Journey with the Japanese singer.
tom papa
Yeah.
That guy's badass.
unidentified
Fuck yeah he is!
joe rogan
He sounds as good as Steve Perry ever did in his prime.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
It's amazing.
tom papa
Steve Perry's still out there.
I don't think he's performing, but he's still around.
joe rogan
What are you playing?
jamie vernon
Bryan Adams' giant crowd.
unidentified
Wow.
tom papa
Look at that.
joe rogan
That's Bryan Adams?
Yeah.
tom papa
That guy was a star.
joe rogan
Post-menopausal chicks.
unidentified
It's the summer of 69. What does he look like these days?
jamie vernon
He's stretching here.
joe rogan
Let me see.
tom papa
He's working out.
joe rogan
Look at that.
tom papa
He's ripped.
joe rogan
He's fit.
Stretch that back, he says.
Brian Adams is fit.
That's not him.
Is it?
tom papa
Yeah, it's him.
joe rogan
It's a weird black and white photo.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's got some Snapchat filter on him, too.
tom papa
He's obviously spiritually sound.
joe rogan
He looks healthy.
tom papa
Working out.
joe rogan
Well, listen, man.
That guy was a...
He was a rock star when I was in high school.
tom papa
That's right.
joe rogan
And if he looks that good today, that's incredible.
tom papa
He's taking care of himself.
joe rogan
Must be.
tom papa
Yeah.
He's doing something right.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
He's not running around after teenage girls.
unidentified
Hang on.
tom papa
He's living a good life.
joe rogan
Floozies.
Flying over Bill Clinton.
tom papa
Obviously.
unidentified
Hey.
Hey.
Hey, Epstein, what are we doing today?
tom papa
Yeah, it's, yeah.
joe rogan
For conspiracy theorists right now, like for Sam Tripoli, you know Sam Tripoli runs Tinfoil Hat Podcast?
He's in his glory.
tom papa
Oh, God.
joe rogan
He couldn't be happier.
But he's taking it to another level.
He thinks he's not really dead, that they faked his death.
tom papa
Ah, of course.
joe rogan
Dun, dun, dun.
tom papa
Geez Louise.
joe rogan
For conspiracy theorists, when a conspiracy theory is obvious, they look for the non-obvious possibility.
They do the exact opposite of what Michael Shermer was talking about with conspiracy theorists.
Never attribute to malice.
Everything.
Everything is malice.
If it looks obvious, there's something more going on.
tom papa
It's so creepy.
God.
Well, who cares how, what?
It's good he's gone.
joe rogan
Maybe not, man.
tom papa
It's good he's gone.
joe rogan
Maybe not.
Maybe if he stayed alive, he could have told us some stuff about some terrible people that are still alive doing things.
tom papa
Yeah, he's the worst one.
joe rogan
I don't know about that.
tom papa
He's a creepo.
joe rogan
How do we know that?
We know he's a creep, most likely, but we definitely don't know if he's the worst out of all those people that he was creeping with.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
The thing is, if the guy really did film a bunch of people that are super powerful people doing crazy shit...
tom papa
Yeah.
There's gotta be some stuff, right?
If I was leading the investigation, I'd go after the hard drives.
That's where they keep it all, on the hard drives.
joe rogan
They did find hard drives filled with stuff that he had.
tom papa
They did?
joe rogan
Yeah, that he had, with very young girls in subjective poses.
I don't know if it was pornography, but they were talking about how many different photos of young ladies that they found on his computer.
tom papa
Alright, enough with this guy.
joe rogan
But I don't know if they were young like illegal or young like 18. You know, there's something weird about when you watch some porn where they're pretending to be schoolgirls.
tom papa
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
You know?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Like, you know the girl's 30, but she's pretending to be 18. But they always put them in an outfit.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's something weird about those porns.
Like, what is happening here?
tom papa
No, exactly.
joe rogan
One guy's a milkman.
The other guy, you know...
He just comes over.
tom papa
Must you bring up my fetish, milkman porn?
joe rogan
He knocks on the door.
Girl answers.
She's got pigtails.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
My dad's not home right now.
I guess you can come inside.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Next thing you know.
tom papa
How about watching a baseball game?
joe rogan
You know what another thing is weird about porn?
There's a lot of step-mother porn.
tom papa
Stepmother?
joe rogan
Stepmother and stepsister.
tom papa
Dude with his stepmother?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Or dude with his stepsister?
joe rogan
Exactly.
Like, dad marries some new floozy, dad's off at work, and the son's like 19, he wakes up and he's got a boner, and next thing you know, his stepmom's sucking his dick.
now those are fun but it's very popular well there's a you know that's human uh sexuality there's you know everybody has something they're into so i guess they make a movie for all of it yes but also they're always looking for a new forbidden thing so it's regular porn is not forbidden enough uh-huh it's not just two people that are hot that are getting it on right no no no no it's got to be something that shouldn't be doing oh Oh my God, we shouldn't be doing this.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
That's a thrill for a lot of people.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They feel sexually suppressed.
So when they watch porn, like, oh my God, it's a stepmom.
Is she going to do it?
She's going to take a picture of her.
tom papa
Oh my God.
Right.
So it's like forbidden.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
tom papa
Like you with the Westworld thing.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, that's the thing with people, right?
Especially when people get told what to do too much when they're young, and they develop this desire to do forbidden things.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
To be rebellious.
tom papa
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
But it's also like the pushing the envelope thing too, right?
You get bored.
People like outrageous things and those outrageous things are not outrageous enough anymore, then they get more outrageous somehow or another.
tom papa
Right.
That's right.
That's why you shouldn't go down the path.
Right?
That's why you're healthier, working out like crazy, or being obsessed with cars, or being obsessed with sports.
You want to get more and more extreme with it when you're dealing with tires.
You're not dealing with human beings that are being trafficked through Florida with the idea that they might have some fame.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
Why's it gotta be Florida?
tom papa
That's where it all happens, right?
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
All bad things.
Where was that Epstein guy?
joe rogan
Florida.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Mar-a-Lago.
Florida.
tom papa
You ever see Rashida Jones' documentary on porn?
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
It's pretty devastating.
joe rogan
Who's Rashida Jones again?
tom papa
She was Quincy Jones' daughter.
She was on the...
She's very funny, talented.
She was in...
Parks and Rec.
And The Office.
And she made a documentary on just like all these young girls that, especially now with social media and wanting to be liked and having all these promises of fame and that what you think is amateur porn and is harmless, there's really a very high percentage of these people are being exploited.
And yeah, it'll make you look at porn very differently.
joe rogan
I'm sure.
tom papa
I recommend it.
joe rogan
Is there any kind of acceptable porn?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, what if it's like 35-year-old ladies that are just freaks?
tom papa
Or not freaks.
joe rogan
They just want to fuck on camera.
They get a thrill out of people watching them fuck.
Is that possible?
tom papa
I don't know if it's possible.
That's the question, right?
Yeah.
joe rogan
The question is, you always worry if...
But do you...
tom papa
What happened to them?
unidentified
Right.
tom papa
Put them in that mind space.
joe rogan
Because we don't have a fear about men.
Look, are you worried about men who are 35 years old who are having sex with women on camera?
Do those trouble you?
tom papa
No, I don't think about them at all.
joe rogan
Not concerned about them, right?
So we're concerned about the women.
Is that...
Wait for it.
Because we're sexist?
Are we putting standards on the females that we don't put on the males because we don't think the women can handle it?
Or we don't think they can make that choice?
We don't think that they should be allowed to make that choice?
Or if they do make that choice, we think there has to be something wrong with them and they need to be protected?
Whereas we don't have those feelings about a man?
Right.
tom papa
I just know that so, I think that when you're thinking about what leads you to that place, there's a high probability that some man did something awful to that place.
Girl when she was young.
That's such a high percentage of people that have had...
All women have had to deal with some creepo at some point in their life.
joe rogan
For sure.
tom papa
And so I think it's built on that.
It's like, well, you know, I'd rather help her in some other way than watch these porn.
joe rogan
So is that something we inherently know?
And how do we know that?
tom papa
Yeah, because men are big and aggressive and can do...
joe rogan
No, no, no.
That's not what I'm saying.
When you see someone that's in porn, do we inherently know that they've been molested?
Do we just know?
tom papa
We don't know.
joe rogan
We don't.
But have we investigated it?
There is a high percentage of women that do porn.
This is a fact.
That have been sexually molested.
What I'm saying is your distaste for it, is it based on the knowledge of that, or is this an inherent perception that a woman who would do that must be damaged, so something must have had happened to her when she was younger that was awful, otherwise she wouldn't be doing this?
tom papa
Well, it's like going to a strip club and probably 80% of the guys are just seeing somebody dancing and 20% of the guys are thinking, wait, you shouldn't be doing this.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
I don't think- 20% at strip clubs?
tom papa
I don't know.
Maybe higher.
joe rogan
I just feel like...
tom papa
You know what I mean?
I think we're able to...
I'm sorry to cut you off, but I think human beings are able to not see everything that they want to see because they're enjoying what's before them.
joe rogan
I think you're right for sure.
We definitely make rationalizations.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But I'm wondering, like, why, if it's a man, we don't have any...
I guess it's because we don't think of a man of being...
You know, if a guy is an object of sexual desire for women, we don't think of him as a victim, ever.
tom papa
I know, which is unfortunate because there are a lot of things happen to young boys, you know?
joe rogan
Well, did you hear about this guy that's suing Katy Perry?
tom papa
You about the song?
joe rogan
No, no.
She says, maybe he's not suing her, but he's accusing her of sexual assault, what he's calling sexual assault.
She pulled down his sweatpants and exposed his dick to some people.
tom papa
Oh, right.
Right.
And then that knee-jerk reaction is, well, you're a dude, you would love Katy Perry pulling your pants off.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Right?
But maybe he was really hurt by it.
Who knows?
joe rogan
Maybe he needs to grow a pair.
tom papa
How about that?
I love Katy Perry.
joe rogan
Yeah, what the fuck's the problem?
She pulls your pants down?
I don't get it.
Everybody gets to see your dick.
tom papa
Even when I was a young boy, there wasn't like...
joe rogan
Sounds to me like Katy Perry's trying to fuck.
tom papa
You leave Katy Perry...
joe rogan
Is that what you think she was doing?
tom papa
No, sounds like she pantsed him.
joe rogan
For fun.
tom papa
Yeah, that's what it sounds like.
Lucy's sweatpants.
joe rogan
Now, if that was a guy doing it to a girl, I would say that is sexual assault.
Right.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
But think of it very differently.
tom papa
I would too.
joe rogan
If a guy was there and a girl bent over in front of a bunch of guys to pick up her keys and someone pantsed her and her vagina was exposed to all these strangers, I would say, that guy's a piece of shit.
Like, imagine if that was your daughter or your wife, right?
Some guy pulls your wife's fucking sweatpants down in front of a crew of people.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Because I think we see men as a threat.
As a physical threat.
joe rogan
Right.
But if Katy Perry does it to a guy, I'm like, ha ha ha.
tom papa
Yeah, I know.
Yeah.
joe rogan
If I was a judge, I'd be like, get the fuck out of here.
tom papa
Without explaining it or coming up for reasons why, that is the knee-jerk reaction.
joe rogan
A woman got arrested in New Jersey.
She blew a 14-year-old boy.
They gave her a 10-year, like a suspended sentence.
She's on 10-year probation, no jail time, and she keeps her teaching certificate.
Yeah.
tom papa
Oh, really?
unidentified
Yes.
tom papa
She was allowed to keep her certificate?
joe rogan
Stop blowing kids, you crazy bitch.
She probably blew the cop, blew the judge.
tom papa
Oh, God.
joe rogan
That's my thought on that, always, is if a woman's willing to blow a 14-year-old, she'll blow you, too.
That girl's fucking crazy.
She just loves sucking dick.
tom papa
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
You could talk her into it.
tom papa
It's all too much.
joe rogan
As long as she's got standards.
I mean, I think every cop that arrests a lady who blows 14-year-olds, Every cop thinks she'll suck his dick, too.
Right?
Don't you think?
They're crazy.
It's a crazy woman.
tom papa
Yeah.
unidentified
Well...
joe rogan
You don't think so?
tom papa
Do I think she's crazy?
Yes.
joe rogan
For sure.
But it's not a scary crazy.
It doesn't scare me.
tom papa
No, there's something, you know, look, there's a lot of different ways to be damaged, right?
And that's her damage.
joe rogan
But what I'm saying is, like, that's not her.
What is she doing?
She's a grown adult.
See how even you're looking at that.
There's a lot of different ways to be damaged.
But if that was a grown man having sex with a 14-year-old girl, you wouldn't worry about what fucking damage he has.
You'd be worrying about what damage he's doing.
See, even in that situation, you're worried about her being damaged.
tom papa
I'm not worried about her being damaged.
unidentified
But you know what I'm saying?
joe rogan
But that's what you said.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Right.
What you were thinking about was her being damaged.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Not her victimizing the boy.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Because we don't think of it that way.
tom papa
No, I know.
I know.
Like, right.
I mean, these stories started coming out when we were younger.
joe rogan
They've always existed.
tom papa
I know.
And it was always like, you know, with your buddies, it was like, oh, I wish my Spanish teacher did that.
You know?
joe rogan
There's been freaks throughout history.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Crazy women that blow boys from as long as time memorial.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Is that the word?
Time memorial?
tom papa
You don't say it that way.
Time in memoriam.
joe rogan
Memoriam.
tom papa
Yeah, sexuality is such a weird, bizarre thing.
That's why they have to make all these laws about it, you know, to keep some, again, back to the guidebook, right?
joe rogan
I was reading about a country, I think, fuck, there was, I want to say, is it Kashmir?
Google this.
That 20% of all marriages start with kidnapping, right?
Yes.
tom papa
20% of marriages in that country.
joe rogan
There's a country where 20% of all marriages start today.
tom papa
With a kidnapping.
joe rogan
Today!
Not in the 1200s.
Not during the Genghis Khan administration.
tom papa
Is it like prom?
joe rogan
No, they just kidnap women and then they're forced to marry their kidnappers so they don't get shamed.
tom papa
Oh man.
joe rogan
Google 20% Of all marriages begin with kidnapping.
tom papa
Just Google that.
joe rogan
Google that.
That sentence.
tom papa
Not the weirdest thing that's ever been Googled.
joe rogan
That's a fucking crazy statistic, if I remember it correctly.
tom papa
That is crazy.
joe rogan
I think I wrote it down somewhere.
I'll pull out my laptop.
Did you find it?
jamie vernon
Headline, one in five girls and women kidnapped for marriage in Kyrgyzstan.
joe rogan
Kyrgyzstan, there it is.
One in five.
Where is Kashmir?
tom papa
Kashmir is Pakistan.
joe rogan
Besides the Led Zeppelin song.
unidentified
Dun, dun, dun.
joe rogan
Dun, dun, dun.
So it's only Kyrgyzstan?
jamie vernon
According to a study published, yeah.
joe rogan
That spot.
But see...
jamie vernon
Brideknapping also occurs in places like Armenia, Ethiopia, Kazakhstan, South Africa, and particularly common rural parts of Central Asian country.
tom papa
Kidnapping.
Just grabbing people.
joe rogan
Grabbing people and making them marry you.
tom papa
Jeez Louise.
joe rogan
They're still doing that.
In 2019. But just stop and think about one out of five.
tom papa
And that's with them trying to keep it on the down low.
So what was it 100 years ago?
joe rogan
100%.
tom papa
Right?
joe rogan
100%.
Nobody ever got married.
Everybody just raped...
jamie vernon
There's a thing called groom kidnapping that also happens where the eligible bachelors are abducted by a bride's family and forced to marry.
joe rogan
Oh, Christ.
Oh, my God.
These people are living like movie characters.
tom papa
So weird.
joe rogan
This is happening today.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
We are so fortunate.
God.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Here, well, not just us, but people in the Western world.
What?
jamie vernon
What do you say?
In 2009, in this place, in Bihar, B-I-H-A-R, 1,224 kidnappings for marriage were reported.
unidentified
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
In one year.
tom papa
In one year.
joe rogan
1,200 kidnappings for marriage.
How many people live there?
1,259.
tom papa
Good Lord.
joe rogan
Everyone's just getting kidnapped.
That's horrible.
Dude, imagine that.
That is fucking horrible.
tom papa
Men are damaged.
joe rogan
Well, in that part of the world, they have a long tradition of doing creepy shit with women.
That is one of the weird things about history.
The further you go back in history, the worse women are treated.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You know?
Universally.
tom papa
Say that again?
joe rogan
The further you go back in history, the worse women are treated.
They're treated worse.
The further you go back in history.
tom papa
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
unidentified
Of course.
joe rogan
I mean, what's the original image that we always got of caveman and cavewoman?
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Dragging her over the head, dragging her by her hair.
tom papa
Dragging her by her hair.
Right, exactly.
joe rogan
Why do we know that archetype?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Why do we know that archetype?
That's a weird one.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Hitting her in the head and dragging her by her hair.
Where are we getting that from?
tom papa
Right, just taking, because it's how it went down, I guess.
joe rogan
Right, but why do you and I know that same image?
tom papa
You watch the same cartoons.
joe rogan
Is that what it was?
tom papa
Yeah.
Mine's a cartoon image of it.
joe rogan
Right.
But why did that cartoon image, why did that become so prevalent?
That we both, like, where'd you grow up?
tom papa
New Jersey.
joe rogan
I lived there too.
So maybe we both got it from the same part of the world.
tom papa
Yeah, maybe we both watched Zoom.
joe rogan
And then it was Boston when I was older and San Francisco.
But that was a thing you thought of when you thought of cavemen.
You thought of the man clubbing the lady over the head and dragging her by her hair.
It was crazy.
tom papa
Men have a long way to go.
joe rogan
Sure.
tom papa
A long way to go.
The hangups that men have over women that turn into violence is still, at this late date in our human development, is still batshit crazy.
There is such a violent...
They don't understand how to even be around women.
They don't understand when they're rejected by women.
And it all culminates still in such a violent...
Nature.
It's bizarre.
joe rogan
Wasn't that what happened to the guy who owned the stand?
tom papa
I don't know what happened.
I know...
joe rogan
What I understand from what's been explained to me, that the ex-husband of his au pair came to kill her.
And he was there and wound up killing him, too.
tom papa
So he was just coming...
joe rogan
Find out if that's true.
I don't know what the whole story was, but apparently, I didn't know him well, but apparently it was super well liked.
unidentified
Awful.
tom papa
I know, he was a nice guy.
I met him a couple times.
Terrible.
Maplewood, New Jersey.
joe rogan
It's, you know, a man.
tom papa
But man, again, men going crazy.
joe rogan
If that is the case, if that's the story, a man trying to kill his ex-wife or killing his ex-wife.
tom papa
It's just like, man, talk about lack of guidebook.
Nobody teaches young men, frustrated men.
joe rogan
That's the story?
So, I was correct.
I was accurate.
It says...
tom papa
Dad of two.
joe rogan
Killed the crimes with stand owner David Kimowitz, 40-year-old, married dad of two, and the family's Colombian, all pair, Karen Bermudez Rodriguez, 26.
unidentified
Yeah.
Wow.
tom papa
So there's nothing going on between the nanny and him.
joe rogan
Fuck.
tom papa
Man, man.
joe rogan
Stabbed an au pair and her boss.
Horrible.
Yeah.
Hey, man.
tom papa
Nobody teaches these men how to be a man.
unidentified
Right.
tom papa
How to curb those appetites and deal with it and put your violence towards something else.
It's still a big hole.
joe rogan
Also, they were saying Colombian.
She was Colombian.
I don't know if she's from Colombian, if he was from Colombia, too.
I mean, look...
tom papa
Every culture all around the world.
joe rogan
But extreme violence in a lot of parts of South America and certain places, you know?
tom papa
Yeah.
A lot here.
I mean, it's everywhere.
Anywhere there's dudes, they get frustrated and they snap.
joe rogan
Yeah, but more so.
More so in a lot of places in South America.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
You know, in some areas that are like, you know, I had this guy on who's an expert in Mexico.
He worked in the, Ed Calderon, he worked dealing with cartels and for the Mexican government.
And, you know, the stories that this guy would tell you about the violence that's happening in Mexico is fucking terrible.
Terrifying.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
And how many kids grow up sort of enamored with this cartel life and get drawn into it and sucked into it and these people wind up taking people to kill people and showing them how to cut people up and getting them accustomed to doing it.
tom papa
Oh my God.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And they seem so normal when you meet them and then you realize that they're literally training kids to murder people and chop them up.
And you're like, what?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
It's dark out there.
joe rogan
So if you fuck that guy's au pair, or rather if you live with that guy's...
tom papa
Or if she just decided to leave him.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, I don't think anybody's saying that he was having an affair.
But if the guy thought he was, because the guy was, you know...
If you're a man and you're...
Ex-wife is living in a house, and there's a man in the house.
You assume...
Like, if you're a piece of shit, you assume that they're having an affair, even if they aren't.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Right?
And you would just...
If you were trying to kill her, you'd probably try to kill him, too.
Or maybe he was trying to kill her, and the other guy just happened to be there.
And he killed him, too.
tom papa
Either way, that guy went to the house with the idea, I'm going to kill.
joe rogan
My point was, like, if you have a dangerous person like that, and that dangerous person is trying to...
Go and get his ex-wife and kill her and you have to get caught in the cross fairs.
tom papa
With a knife, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's terrible.
tom papa
Awful.
joe rogan
Horrible.
tom papa
So terrible.
unidentified
Horrible.
tom papa
Be careful out there, kids.
Be kind to each other.
joe rogan
I know.
tom papa
Be nice.
joe rogan
That's the other thing about the way the world really works.
You have to recognize there are really people like that out there.
tom papa
A ton.
joe rogan
That's a real thing.
unidentified
Yes.
tom papa
Yeah.
You have to be aware.
You can't be naive that this stuff doesn't exist.
You can't pretend that it's not around.
No.
joe rogan
Yeah, but how do you defend against something like that, right?
If you don't know how to fight?
And even if you do, someone comes out with a knife.
tom papa
Yeah, your back is turned.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
You know.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Who knows?
joe rogan
Right.
tom papa
A lot of it's left to chance.
joe rogan
Fucking such a horrible way to leave this world.
Someone's stabbing you.
tom papa
Draining out.
joe rogan
Terrible.
Someone's trying to get back at his ex-wife.
Stabbing you.
tom papa
Yeah, you're sitting there in your nice little house.
You're running a comedy club.
Just having a nice time.
People laughing.
You're managing some other comedians.
You're making your way.
You've got your wife and your kids.
You're providing for them.
You have no idea that morning when you wake up and making coffee what's headed your way.
Horrible.
joe rogan
Have you had someone close to you get murdered before?
tom papa
No.
Not close to me.
joe rogan
Closest to me was Phil Hartman.
unidentified
His wife shot him and then shot herself.
tom papa
Right.
It's terrible.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do you think there's ever going to be a time when there's no violence?
tom papa
No violence?
joe rogan
We evolve past this to some new thing.
tom papa
I don't know if we evolve because there's so many people.
Do you think we're going to evolve?
Not to that.
It would take eons.
We're still like...
Do you think there's too many of us?
Yeah, there's so many parts of the globe are still, you know, way behind.
I think it would have to be like put in the water or something.
Like we'd have to medicate it out of us.
joe rogan
That's a real interesting perspective, right?
Because amongst us...
Amongst the people that we know, what are the odds that we could get through this life with no violence?
Say if we all, all the people that we knew, we all lived together.
I would bet a lot of money nobody would murder anybody.
So what happens when you get from that to large groups of people, and then you get to large groups of people like, you're talking about Kyrgyzstan, where one out of five women gets fucking kidnapped.
That's how marriages get started.
They're wild and out there.
They're living crazy.
Or, what is that one city that...
There's one city in Pakistan.
Is it Karachi?
What is that city?
Why can't I remember the name?
Is that it?
That was one of the cities that...
Shane Smith from Vice was saying it was one of the most terrifying places on earth.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
The sheer cheapness of murder, how cheap it is to get someone murdered over there.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
And how much murder and crime goes on over there.
tom papa
Oh, God.
joe rogan
Just a totally different metric for how you view the world.
Totally different perception of what life is worth and what life is like and what kind of violence you have to deal with on a daily basis.
tom papa
Oh, God.
I know.
There's a lot of very dark places.
That's why I don't like to travel.
joe rogan
You don't like travel at all?
tom papa
I do like to travel, but I'm starting to cross off a bunch of places.
joe rogan
That's your sketch?
tom papa
Yeah.
Between getting parasites that make you have to poop in a bag and send to your doctor, or ending up in real violent places that don't have the same kind of...
Rules that we do.
joe rogan
My friend Justin Wren, who runs Fight for the Forgotten Charity.
tom papa
I was just wearing his shirt at the beach yesterday.
joe rogan
Oh, were you?
tom papa
That's awesome.
joe rogan
The best guy ever.
He has a new intestinal parasite that's draining him.
He doesn't know what the fuck it is.
Yeah, he's got something that he caught when he was over there.
tom papa
Oh, no.
That's what I'm afraid of.
joe rogan
He's really sick.
tom papa
Is he really?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's really sick.
tom papa
Is he going to be okay?
I don't know.
joe rogan
They're going to have to, hopefully...
tom papa
Identify it.
joe rogan
Yeah, they have to figure out what it is.
Figure out how he got it.
Figure out what's going on.
tom papa
That's no joke.
What happened in the Dominican Republic?
Didn't they...
People died because they were drinking from the minibar?
Did you hear that story?
joe rogan
Yes.
Yes.
tom papa
There's a lot of sketch...
Yeah.
joe rogan
They were saying that people were putting stuff in the minibar that wasn't actually alcohol...
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
The story that I had heard was that they would put cheap substitutes for whatever the alcohol was supposed to be so that people would pay for it and then they would steal the actual liquor and replace it with something else and then people would drink it and it was like poisonous.
tom papa
And they were dying.
People really died.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah.
tom papa
Oh, that's terrible.
I hope he's okay.
joe rogan
I don't know what the actual story was.
But somebody else described it saying, like, one thing is you concentrate on statistics.
And I don't know if this is true.
We should find out.
But if you concentrate on statistics, then it seems like a lot of people die in the Dominican Republic when they were over there.
But the reality is that it's just the way we're looking at it because we've chosen to start focusing on people who die over there.
But in fact, it's like commensurate with people that die over here when they're on vacation.
tom papa
Right.
But...
Only a certain number go to that resort, you know what I mean, in a year.
joe rogan
It was more than one resort, I believe.
tom papa
It was?
joe rogan
Yeah, I think so.
Well, a lot of people go to the Dominican, not now, but a lot of people were going.
tom papa
I was there last year.
joe rogan
Were you?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
So would you go back after all this?
tom papa
No.
First of all, I saw a story about a couple that went there and got hookworm in their feet.
joe rogan
Oh, you could definitely get that.
tom papa
That, I was already like, maybe I'm not going back.
And now that you can't even drink from the mini bar, I'm like, you know what?
There's nice places in Laguna Beach.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, Laguna.
Did you know that Hookworm is responsible for the stereotype of the southern dummy?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
What do you mean?
joe rogan
People walking around the South barefoot were getting hookworm en masse, and hookworm has a detrimental effect on your ability to think.
tom papa
Oh.
joe rogan
Yeah, it literally compromises your mental ability.
It makes you dumber.
tom papa
So like the trope of like a hillbilly walking around?
joe rogan
Exactly.
tom papa
Really?
unidentified
Yep, yep.
tom papa
Oh, weird!
joe rogan
Yep, yep.
tom papa
Hookworm.
joe rogan
Did we find out about that from Peter Hotez?
Is that who told us that?
tom papa
That is weird.
joe rogan
How a worm gave the South a bad name.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Hookworms once sapped the American South of its health, and few realize that they continue to afflict millions.
tom papa
Jeez.
unidentified
Yeah.
Ugh.
tom papa
He looks so creepy.
joe rogan
It fucks with the way you think.
unidentified
Ugh.
joe rogan
Makes you tired.
Gives you fatigue.
Yeah, it is podcast is very dark Listeners weeks later victims succumb to an insatiable exhaustion and Impenetrable haziness of the mind that some called stupidity Adults neglected their fields and children grew pale and listless Victims develop grossly distended bellies and angel wings emaciated shoulder blades accentuated by hunching all gazed out dully from sunken sockets with a telltale fish-eye stare and
That is the stereotype of people from the South.
And we just always thought they're just living in hot weather and they're just stupid.
But what it really was was fucking hookworm.
tom papa
Ew!
joe rogan
Isn't that amazing?
tom papa
This podcast started off, we were having fun, we were talking about judo.
joe rogan
The culprit behind the germ of laziness, as the South's affliction was sometimes called, was Necator Americanis, the American Murderer, better known as the hookworm.
It's called the American Murderer.
tom papa
Are they still out there?
joe rogan
Millions of those blood-sucking parasites lived, yeah, for sure, and died within the guts of up to 40% of the population.
Stretching from southeastern Texas to West Virginia.
Can you imagine 40% of the population of the South in these places from Texas to West Virginia was infected?
40% of the population with a fucking worm that makes you dumb.
tom papa
I'm never going anywhere ever again.
joe rogan
Isn't that incredible?
tom papa
That's insane.
joe rogan
But that's what the stereotype came from.
tom papa
Wow.
How wild.
joe rogan
Fucking crazy.
tom papa
That's insane.
joe rogan
Now, how many people are getting, right now, getting Lyme disease?
And Lyme disease, although it doesn't make you lazy, it wrecks your health.
unidentified
Wrecks your health.
Devastates your health.
tom papa
For years.
unidentified
Yep.
tom papa
For years.
joe rogan
That shit is happening right now on the East Coast.
tom papa
It's all over the East Coast.
My kids were back there working on a farm over the summer, and my daughter had a tick on her.
We freaked out.
joe rogan
Mmm, should freak out.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You got to get it off before 24 hours.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But also, if you do get infected, you have to get on antibiotics really quickly.
tom papa
Super fast.
joe rogan
There's a woman who wrote a book about Lyme disease possibly being a military biological weapon that accidentally was released.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Apparently this is a popular thought, that there's something about Lyme disease that Lyme disease doesn't necessarily make sense.
How quickly it came from this one area, like this Lyme, Connecticut area, and how rapidly it spread, and how devastating its impact was, and There is, apparently, there has been some research that's been, well, not some, quite a bit of research that's done on various biological weapons and various distribution methods.
And one of the thoughts of a lot of these distribution methods is infecting bugs.
Infecting bugs with some designer disease.
And then infecting the population.
Like if you release the bugs on this area that you wanted to attack.
Like at a certain point in time.
tom papa
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
And you infected giant chunks of the population.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Then you would be able to go back there ten years later and everybody would be fucked.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, but this is something that biological diseases, whether it's anthrax, like things along those lines.
tom papa
Yeah, terrifying.
joe rogan
But they've made those.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Forever.
You know, they've had that and people have been aware of that forever.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But the idea of it being something that's in a bug and that can infect you.
tom papa
Jeez Louise, that's terrifying.
unidentified
It's terrifying.
tom papa
Yeah.
Are you trying to make it that I don't go out of my house?
joe rogan
Trying to freak you out, bro.
tom papa
No, it's weird.
I don't remember being around when we were kids on the East Coast.
joe rogan
It was not around.
And I think it took a while for anybody to figure out what the fuck it was.
tom papa
How about the new mosquitoes that we have?
joe rogan
Yes.
tom papa
We never had these mosquitoes before.
joe rogan
There's a recent case of a horrible disease breaking out in the East Coast.
I think somewhere in Massachusetts, there is some horrible mosquito-borne disease.
What does that thing say about the ticks, about Lyme disease?
What is the book?
jamie vernon
It's called Bitten.
joe rogan
Yes, that's it.
jamie vernon
By Chris Newby, K, with K-R-I-S, Chris.
joe rogan
Is that a man or a woman?
jamie vernon
It's a woman, I believe.
Yeah, she discovered circumstantial evidence linking the outbreak of Lyme disease in the 1960s to the U.S. military.
Some people say this is bullshit, but some people say it's just conspiracy theory.
joe rogan
Who's some people?
Put up the article so we can see it.
jamie vernon
It's the middle of it.
joe rogan
Okay, spread it out so I can see it.
Scroll down.
Go back up.
Stop.
The DOD takes extreme care of all of its research programs to ensure the protection of our personnel and the community.
What is that?
When Smith announced his amendment...
Okay, this is too much there.
It says, there's just too much evidence for a reasonable man or woman to just turn the page and say, put on your tinfoil hat, this is just a conspiracy theory, Smith said.
And yet people with credentials will say that, which begs the question, why would they even say that?
Chris Newby wrote the book, Bitten, said she discovered circumstantial evidence linking the outbreak of Lyme disease in the 1960s.
That's what you said from the U.S. military.
As proof, Newby cites an interview that she had with Will Berg-Dolfer, the American scientist who discovered what causes Lyme disease, who told her shortly before his death that he had been instructed to keep his research Oh,
my hypothesis is that was the biological weapon they were trying to cover up, said Newby, a science writer at the Stanford School of Medicine in California.
tom papa
I don't believe it.
Seems like a lot of malarkey.
joe rogan
She said, I can't connect the dots right now.
Says Newby, who survived Lyme disease.
My theory is that it was a genetically engineered Rickettsia bacteria.
But as a journalist, I can't prove that.
So what is she saying then?
tom papa
She's just pulling stuff out.
jamie vernon
She wrote a book.
joe rogan
She wrote a book.
tom papa
Yeah.
I ain't buying it.
But that's not to say, that does worry me more than anything.
joe rogan
I think she's a hoser.
tom papa
I don't know her personally, but...
joe rogan
If you had a guess.
tom papa
Probably.
But I think that...
joe rogan
Can I bet your bread?
tom papa
Yeah.
I would never give her my bread.
That scares me more than anything, though.
joe rogan
It should scare you.
tom papa
A plague of some sort.
I always feel like we should be keeping some medicine in the house.
joe rogan
Plague medicine?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like what kind?
tom papa
I don't know.
Tetracycline?
joe rogan
Is that good for plague?
tom papa
I don't know.
I figure you gotta take something.
joe rogan
What the hell could be good for plague?
tom papa
Depends what the plague is.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
If it's a flu, there's certain things you can take.
If it's...
Crazy war bugs?
Probably nothing.
But there's so many people, and it's so gross, and you can see how people are just coughing in the airports without covering their mouths.
That's going to happen.
joe rogan
There's a story I was reading this morning, Jamie, about mosquito-borne illness in Massachusetts.
Some new, some like Legionnaire's disease type deal.
tom papa
Oh, jeez.
We have these nasty mosquitoes here in Los Angeles.
We're not supposed to have them.
joe rogan
Where are you getting these mosquitoes?
Around your neighborhood?
unidentified
Yeah, in my house.
tom papa
You might have a neighborhood with a full pool.
I know.
joe rogan
Sometimes neighbors don't take care of their pool.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
That's bad.
tom papa
It is bad.
They were saying, I read an article about it, they said even like a crumpled up chip bag...
Filled with water?
Yeah, it gets water from a sprinkler.
That's enough.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
tom papa
And there are these black and white little guys and they just...
And they go from your knee down.
joe rogan
Dirty little bitches.
tom papa
They're nasty.
We never had screens before in my house.
joe rogan
When I first moved to LA, I rented a house that someone had a pool in the backyard that they didn't take care of.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Like, really bad.
And when I got there, the pool was green, the water was green, and there was things swimming in it.
And I was like, what the fuck is that?
It was mosquito larvae.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Yeah.
See?
joe rogan
So I had a contact.
Here it is.
Massachusetts confirmed human case of mosquito-borne virus.
tom papa
First human case since 2013. Of EEE. What is that?
joe rogan
Scroll down so we can read that.
tom papa
Equine encephalitis.
Equine encephalitis.
joe rogan
That's horse.
tom papa
That's horse stuff.
joe rogan
The first human case since 2013. At least nine towns are at critical risk of exposure to a rare but potentially fatal virus that can cause brain swelling.
tom papa
Oh, come on.
joe rogan
According to the Massachusetts Department of Public Health.
Fuck.
Dude, I remember when I was a kid.
Yeah.
Me and this chick made out in the woods and wound up taking our pants off and stuff.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I got fucking lit up by mosquitoes so bad.
We had to stop fooling around.
I was like, this is crazy.
I mean, I had welts all over my leg.
tom papa
It was crazy.
joe rogan
I was like, Jesus, this is what happens when you try to fool around in the woods.
tom papa
God's punishing me.
Dude.
That's terrible.
joe rogan
In cold areas, the mosquitoes are way more aggressive.
tom papa
Yes, I know.
The whole East Coast.
Maine, forget it.
joe rogan
Oh, Maine is the worst.
Canada's worst.
tom papa
Brutal.
joe rogan
I've never seen mosquitoes like Alaska, though.
Alaskan misheaters are fucking bonkers.
tom papa
Are they big?
joe rogan
They're huge, and they're super aggressive.
They don't have any time.
They come in, they move in quick.
They just swarm on you.
tom papa
Yeah, this is what happens.
This is why I'm so aggravated.
L.A., we didn't have this.
It did not exist until a year ago.
joe rogan
I think it's your neighbor.
tom papa
You don't have them by your house?
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
I saw a bobcat fight with a rattlesnake, though.
tom papa
See, that I can handle.
joe rogan
My buddy sent me a video.
jamie vernon
I saw the line.
joe rogan
What'd you see?
In the middle of the street?
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
With a rattlesnake?
jamie vernon
It was on Twitter.
joe rogan
Oh, was it on Twitter?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Who put it on Twitter?
I don't know.
My buddy got it from his neighbor who saw it happen.
tom papa
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, pull the one up.
Maybe it might be the same one.
tom papa
A bobcat versus a rattlesnake?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
That's a good fight.
joe rogan
Dude, the rattlesnake's a big fucking rattlesnake, too.
Bobcat's trying to eat it.
jamie vernon
It's hard out there.
tom papa
It's hot.
joe rogan
It's hard out there.
tom papa
I know.
That's why the coyotes are eating cats.
joe rogan
Yeah, they'll just take whatever they can get.
tom papa
I know.
Everyone's hungry.
It's hot.
You gotta get through this month.
joe rogan
But the thing about coyotes and cats, I think we can relay this to the thing about bears and deers that we're talking about in New Jersey.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You don't want all the bears dead because then there'll be so many fucking deers you'll be slamming into them with your cars.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You want some of them alive.
unidentified
Right.
tom papa
It's called management.
joe rogan
Yes.
And you gotta manage the fucking deer, too.
The thing about the deer, too, that's particularly offensive is when people are like, there's too many deer, what do we do?
They're made out of food.
tom papa
Yeah, eat them.
joe rogan
Shoot them and eat them.
They're fucking delicious.
tom papa
My brother-in-law does.
joe rogan
Does he?
tom papa
Yeah.
He gets two or three, gets them put in the freezer, and that's their meat for the year.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
In New Jersey.
joe rogan
What do you got, Jamie?
Yep, that's it.
That's it.
Look at this.
tom papa
Whoa!
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Look at that motherfucker.
He's like, bitch, what the fuck?
tom papa
Oh, man.
joe rogan
I'm going to eat you.
Bitch, I'm going to fucking eat you.
He's trying to eat him.
He's trying to bite him.
tom papa
Wow, he got him.
That doesn't look good.
joe rogan
That cat is goddamn good.
tom papa
Wow, he got him.
joe rogan
He tried to bite him, but he didn't let it.
But look at his moves.
He's so relentless, too.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He just keeps going back at it.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
It's hard out here in the West.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Pump cat's trying to eat a rattlesnake.
unidentified
Fuck, man.
tom papa
Yeah, it's tough.
There's a lot of nastiness going on.
It's the wild, wild west.
jamie vernon
That singer I was telling you about got bit in the foot on his walk across the country, Mike Posner.
joe rogan
He's fucked up, right?
jamie vernon
Yeah, he can't walk for weeks.
He's got to, like, relearn how to walk.
tom papa
What?
From being bit by a rattler?
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wow, snakes can really hurt you bad, man.
tom papa
Jeez, there's a lot of them out here.
joe rogan
They can cause your tissue to deteriorate.
It can cause necropsy.
It causes the death of tissue, like wherever the bite is, especially if you don't get it treated really quickly.
I've seen a guy who, I was looking at this picture online, this guy got bit, wound up going to the hospital, and his skin had rotted away where his bone was exposed.
unidentified
Ah!
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Over how long?
How much time?
joe rogan
I don't know.
I don't know, but he had a ton of skin grafts and operations to try to repair the area.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Terrible.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
Terrible, terrible stuff.
tom papa
Alright, so don't go to the South.
Don't go to the Dominican Republic.
Don't go to Kazakhstan.
Don't go overseas.
Don't go in the woods.
joe rogan
But do go to Netflix radio at 7 in the morning listening to Tom Papa.
tom papa
What a joke.
I'll do, if you want...
Well, we'll talk about it, but if you ever want to do the show, if you ever want to...
joe rogan
Are you doing it in the afternoon for me?
tom papa
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, we'll do a whole thing with you.
Really?
joe rogan
I feel like a diva.
tom papa
Well, you are.
unidentified
People are like, I gotta work at 7. You fucking gotta work at 7. Well, that's the funny thing.
tom papa
I was complaining about the hours.
I'm like, I'm on 7 o'clock till 9. My brother-in-law's like, dude, I wake up at 5.30, I drive an hour to work, I'm there till 6 at night, and then I drive two hours home.
So, boo-hoo, you get to go hang out and talk with Jerry Seinfeld for an hour.
Ridiculous.
We don't work that hard.
joe rogan
No, we do not work that hard.
Shout out to Tom Popo.
tom papa
Thanks for bringing me in.
joe rogan
My pleasure, brother.
I'll hook you up with some elk after this.
tom papa
Yeah, that'd be awesome.
Thank you so much.
joe rogan
You got any dates coming up?
Want to tell anybody?
tom papa
Go to TomPapa.com.
I'm coming out in a couple weeks.
It all starts up again.
joe rogan
Come to Papa.
tom papa
Come to Papa podcast.
joe rogan
And then this new one that's Netflix Radio.
What is it called again?
tom papa
Netflix Radio.
What a joke on Netflix Radio.
joe rogan
And it's on 7 in the morning.
How many days a week?
tom papa
Four days a week.
It runs 7 to 9 and 2 to 4 out here.
joe rogan
Thank you, Tom Papa.
Much love to you, my friend.
Oh, you're the best.
tom papa
I love coming in.
joe rogan
I love having you, buddy.
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