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March 6, 2018 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:08:26
Joe Rogan Experience #1088 - Bryan Callen
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Main voices
b
bryan callen
01:21:57
j
joe rogan
01:43:29
Appearances
Clips
e
eddie bravo
00:05
j
jamie vernon
00:18
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Speaker Time Text
bryan callen
Thin nose.
joe rogan
Not anymore.
bryan callen
It behooved me.
joe rogan
Yeah, have you ever looked at, like, Abe Vigoda's ears?
bryan callen
Yeah, they were big.
The ears and the nose grow.
joe rogan
They keep growing.
bryan callen
Yeah, age is a very annoying thing.
joe rogan
Well, that's a weird one.
It's almost like to let someone know, like, hey, look at these guy's proportions are all fucked up.
He's got bad juice.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
bryan callen
So how do I reduce?
I wanted to get an ear reduction and a nose sharpening.
joe rogan
I'm sure people have done that.
I could only imagine if girls are getting...
Well, that's a different one.
You know what I'm saying?
Look at the big-ass crazy ears.
bryan callen
Look at the hair in his ears.
Abe.
joe rogan
Hey, he's not 12. Shave those ears.
Yeah, I've got hair growing out of my ears.
I have to put a trimmer.
bryan callen
Well, I'm vain.
I pluck my...
Yeah, if I see hair that doesn't belong somewhere, I'll take it out.
joe rogan
Go wax it.
bryan callen
My father lets his nose hair grow, his eyebrows.
I'm like, bro, would it kill you?
I'm looking into your nose.
It's a nest.
joe rogan
Do you really call your father bro?
bryan callen
Yeah, sometimes.
I get so mad at him because the way he eats sometimes.
We were in Mexico, and he would just show up.
He'd go to breakfast.
He has this belly, and he's got four French toasts and a waffle and a banana.
And I'm just sitting there and I get so mad.
And then I started texting him.
I text him and I go, listen man, you gotta start changing the way you eat.
And I go, and I'm angry as I'm texting this.
I'm getting more angry.
More angry.
So stop the bullshit and start eating.
I was so angry.
I had to tell him that I'm getting, my heart was beating.
I was furious.
I couldn't have text faster.
I go, get it together.
Get it together and stop eating bullshit.
And would it kill you to fucking move a little bit?
Bang!
I just sent that.
unidentified
Whoa.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Strong.
bryan callen
I don't want him to die.
joe rogan
Does he exercise at all?
bryan callen
Fuck no, and I'll tell you why.
When he was young, he was poor, and he had to do manual labor.
He had to work construction.
He had to do everything with his hands.
So now that he has money, it reminds him of when...
You ask him to do shit.
If you ask him to help you with a table, it reminds him of when he was poor and how awful it was.
joe rogan
I was reading a book once on powerlifting, and one of the things they suggested is getting a manual labor job.
bryan callen
That's...
When you have to move furniture?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
Okay?
When you gotta carry couches upstairs?
Yeah.
Yeah, that'll get to it.
joe rogan
I never saw that.
I never saw anybody actually recommend that someone do that in order to get stronger.
bryan callen
Well, when you...
My friend who wrestled and played football on a high level, they used to work the farm.
And they would...
There was a thing where you would take hay and you'd run after the truck.
The truck's up, you'd take the hay and you'd throw it off.
I guess you'd...
Just doing that, I mean, you know, you get crazy strong.
I worked construction one summer in Washington, D.C. in the 95-degree heat, and I had to dig a foundation for a building, for a house, just dig into the ground all day.
And then we had to demolish a house and take that debris, put it into a truck, and then drive it to a landfill called Lawton, I think.
And then we would take it off the truck.
So that movement of digging and then like demolition and digging and piling it in a truck and then piling it off a truck, you're too exhausted to do a goddamn thing.
You're not working out after that.
joe rogan
Yeah, if you do work out and you get used to it though, I think that's the idea, is that your body becomes way more resilient.
That's what he was saying.
If you could get a job like as a mason or some sort of manual labor on a construction site where you're carrying lumber, you'd just be lifting things up, carrying around all the time, your body would just naturally get stronger.
bryan callen
The strongest guy I've ever felt in my life in jiu-jitsu was a Mexican guy who was a mason.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, man.
I couldn't move bricks.
bryan callen
I couldn't believe how his...
Nothing worked on him.
joe rogan
Just imagine, like, picking up bricks all day long, carrying bricks.
Everything would just get stronger.
bryan callen
Yeah.
I worked with a guy named Boo Jack in D.C. Boo Jack.
unidentified
Whoa.
bryan callen
Giant black guy who was a mason.
joe rogan
Is that two words or one word?
bryan callen
Just called himself Boo Jack.
I called him Boo.
And he'd go, Boo Jack!
joe rogan
That was probably his one name, right?
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
Do you think it was his last name or his first name?
bryan callen
I think it was his whole name.
Boo Jack.
unidentified
Really?
bryan callen
Great name.
joe rogan
Is he a superhero or something?
bryan callen
He should be a superhero.
Just a giant, very, very friendly, jolly black man with the biggest, strongest hands I've ever seen.
He was a mason.
joe rogan
Speaking of a big, jolly black man with one name, I met Sinbad the other day.
I never met Sinbad before.
unidentified
Good guy, right?
joe rogan
I met him in a parking lot.
Our cars were right next to each other.
Fully random.
Just fully random.
bryan callen
Was he wearing a dangly earring?
joe rogan
I didn't check.
bryan callen
Was he dressed in a colorful manner?
joe rogan
No, he was very understated.
He seemed completely normal.
I don't remember what he was wearing.
He might be wearing what you're wearing right now.
bryan callen
He always struck me as a nice dude.
joe rogan
Very, very nice guy.
unidentified
Sweetheart.
bryan callen
What's he doing now?
joe rogan
Doing stand-up still.
Touring.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
bryan callen
Still got an audience.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
He's a funny dude, man.
Apparently, he was really funny on Kill Tony.
They did a Kill Tony episode and Sinbad sat in as one of the guest judges.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, they have a new guest judge every week.
And they said he was killer.
bryan callen
Yeah, dudes have been doing it for that long.
They've got some tricks up their sleeve.
And he's a real comic.
joe rogan
He's a real comic.
He's been around forever.
bryan callen
Been communicating with an audience for a long time.
joe rogan
But it's just nice to meet him and see that he's a nice guy, you know?
That was nice.
bryan callen
You ever met anybody who was not so nice?
joe rogan
If I did, maybe five years ago I would have told you.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
But now I'm like, why?
Why bring heat on someone from some weird moment that I probably could have done myself if I was...
bryan callen
Is that true?
joe rogan
You run into someone, you're in the wrong headspace.
Maybe you just got done.
Somebody yelled at you.
Maybe you have a business deal that went bad.
Maybe you got cut off on the highway.
You never know when you're running into people.
It's just, we vary so much.
We would like to encourage each other to be on a good track all the time.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
But I think we need a little bit more forgiveness when someone does something stupid.
bryan callen
I'm gonna call my next special, I think, Bipolar Ape, because that is what we are.
We are, man.
And if you stop and you freeze frame on somebody when they're having a moment, You can catch them in any, like, that whole spectrum, the human spectrum, sinner and saint, and anything in between.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
You can catch them in a terrible moment or a great moment, but you can't decide that that's what they are all the time.
And that's what we're doing now.
Let's be honest.
joe rogan
Isn't it funny, too, that we quantify certain things that are just dumb?
Like, there's certain things you just never, you're just not going to bounce back from the Rachel Dolezal thing, when she pretended she was black, but she really wasn't black.
bryan callen
Yeah, that's a little too much.
joe rogan
You know what I'm saying?
But there's, like, those things where it becomes a nationwide thing, and I bet she's a lovely lady.
I don't know.
I have no idea.
bryan callen
That might be empathy gone wild or that might be sort of this...
I think a lot of times everybody wants to be an individual.
That's always been a problem with the human condition, right?
You want to be unique.
We all do, right?
Even though we all believe in equality, we all want to be not equal.
We want to be a little better than the next guy or at least unique.
And that's maybe where competition comes from and stuff.
But I think sometimes people negotiate that issue and that problem with a very clumsy...
Apparatus with a really weird way of doing it.
I'm gonna be transracial or I'm gonna I'm gonna wear dishes in my ears and and and Literally cover my whole face with tattoos.
That's fine Super common there might yeah there might be a better way to negotiate that that problem you're having because it's a It's still pretty surface you ever look at the hashtag face tattoo on Instagram.
joe rogan
No, holy shit There's a lot of people getting their face tattooed.
Yeah Like, it's like, what?
Slow down.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Slow down.
bryan callen
It goes back to wanting to be seen.
joe rogan
Well, I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense in terms of, like, people wanting to belong to a group that seems cool.
And, like, black people seem like, overall, a cool group, right?
Like, you have good music behind it.
They have a funny way of talking.
They have all these amazing pro athletes.
They have a totally different kind of culture.
And you identify with that culture, but you can't get in because you're a white girl.
You're like, shit!
bryan callen
It's also something, I think also there's a romance too, when you're on the outside looking in, it's struggle.
joe rogan
Oh yeah.
bryan callen
And having been oppressed and all those things, and yet you triumph, yet you find a way to be funny, yet you find a way to be colorful, yet you find a way to be artistic.
I mean, rap came from the South Bronx while it was literally on fire.
joe rogan
Yeah, and rap is just one aspect of it, right?
I mean, think about it.
Some of the very best stand-up comedians, some of the very best musicians.
bryan callen
Jazz, dude.
joe rogan
Yeah, and we think of the percentage of the population that's black.
12%.
The percentage that become elite professional athletes.
bryan callen
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
I mean, what is the percentage of NBA players that are black?
It's something crazy.
bryan callen
A lot of it's also just...
joe rogan
What is it, you think?
bryan callen
I don't know, but it's pretty high.
joe rogan
69%?
unidentified
Probably.
bryan callen
Probably something like that.
joe rogan
I don't know why I said that number.
Jamie?
bryan callen
A lot of it might be just also that there are two avenues open to you in a lot of black communities.
At least it's changing, but it was sports and music, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, for sure.
That probably plays a part in it.
No doubt about it.
But it's also...
There's an extraordinary number of professional athletes, like elite athletes, that just happen to be black.
And what is that, though?
Is it genetic?
Is it the environment they're coming from?
I mean, it's a fascinating thing to be explored, because for all this talk of racism, if you just want to be really honest, There's a lot of African-Americans that have some pretty phenomenal genetic traits.
Think of who's the biggest freak all-time athlete basketball player, would it be?
bryan callen
Probably LeBron James.
joe rogan
LeBron James, probably, right?
And then you have Michael Jordan who's another freak athlete, right?
How many white guys are like that?
unidentified
It's tough because people would argue like Larry Bird.
joe rogan
Larry Bird was a phenomenal shooter, but he wasn't the kind of freak athlete LeBron is.
Or Dr. J. Or when Jordan used to literally fly through the air.
jamie vernon
There are a couple guys that can do things like that, but they don't have the overall skill package or whatever.
bryan callen
There's a book called The Sports Gene that talks about this.
If you look at Africa, It's probably the most genetically, is the most genetically diverse part of the world, right?
I mean, the Africans from the Biafra Coast are totally different than the Africans from, say, the highlands of Kenya or Ethiopia.
The Africans from the Sudan, the Dinka, and the Nua tend to be almost seven, six sometimes.
Certainly seven feet is not that uncommon.
joe rogan
Many people don't realize Egypt's a part of Africa.
bryan callen
Very much so.
I mean, the Tunisia, Morocco, that's more Arabic, right?
Then you've got...
I mean, it's fascinating.
This really is fascinating.
Let's go to Ethiopia.
Ethiopia, they grow to an average height, beautiful people.
There's a lot of trade in that side of the world, Eritrea.
They're renowned for their beauty.
If you just step over the border...
Just go right to just one south or one north.
You are going into Sudan or the South Sudan.
Tallest people in the world.
Tallest people in the world.
I mean, some of them can be like a fist off of eight feet.
That's where like Manute Bol and those people came from, okay?
If you go just another country, just one more country east, now you're in the Congo, and that's home to the pygmy.
So you got the shortest people in the world in one country and then just cross the border and you have the tallest in the world in that country.
So Africa is insanely diverse.
But if you look at the athletes with the most explosive power, and that includes the fastest people in the world who are in Jamaica and who are in the United States, genetically you can trace them back to a very small part of Africa according to this book, The Sports Gene, which is the Biafra Coast.
And so that is where you'll see the fastest, most explosive people.
However, having said that, you can hear Deion Sanders watching this white running back, 215 pounds.
He ran a 4.35.40.
And he was like, I can't say this on TV, but he can run, run!
He can run, run!
And it was true.
It was like, you haven't seen a white guy run a 4.35 in forever.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's pretty rare.
I mean, there's got to be some Viking genes floating around.
bryan callen
Sure, but there's no, I don't think there's any black, It's just fascinating when you stop and think about just the sheer number of people involved in professional athletics.
joe rogan
The sheer number of people that make a living playing a game with their body.
bryan callen
Yeah, but I don't know if that kind of athleticism helps you become a champion in tennis.
You know, it depends on the sport.
It's sport-specific, right?
joe rogan
Well, I mean, first of all, black people, historically, have not been into tennis.
bryan callen
Because they didn't have money.
joe rogan
It's a rich man's sport.
Arthur Ashe was obviously a tennis champion.
bryan callen
Phoenix Williams, Serena Williams.
joe rogan
Yeah, but Arthur Ashe was, like, way before their time, right?
So he was, like, the groundbreaker.
But, I mean, how many...
I mean, now, I'm sure a lot of kids are growing up in nice communities.
They have tennis clubs and stuff like that.
African-American kids.
But it's less a thing of that culture than a thing.
There's not a lot of Italian-American tennis players either.
You know what I'm saying?
My people don't play tennis.
They don't get into tennis.
It's not an economic thing.
It's just a cultural thing.
bryan callen
Golf is the same way.
joe rogan
Yeah, so when you see all these world-class tennis players that just happen to be of the rich upper crust.
bryan callen
Well, you need a coach.
You need a lot of stuff with tennis, you know?
joe rogan
It's a lot going on in tennis.
Plus, nobody gives a shit until you're really good.
If you have a chance, oh, he plays a semi-pro ball, maybe he'll get into the big leagues.
If you're like, I'm a semi-pro tennis player, get a fucking job, bitch.
What are you doing?
You're playing tennis?
bryan callen
It takes a long time.
joe rogan
I used to know this dude who was a professional racquetball player, and that was the grindiest of all grinds.
Because when I was 19, I recognized like, oh no, this dude done painted himself into a corner.
He's like a world champion.
It's something nobody gives a fuck about.
bryan callen
I know, nobody cares.
joe rogan
Dude, nobody cared.
And people would treat him like, oh, poor guy.
That was part of it.
It was like, he's awesome, but poor guy.
bryan callen
I feel that way when I watch the biathlon...
In the Olympics and shit, or curling, or any of those sports.
joe rogan
Well, curling is...
Don't talk shit about curling in Newfoundland.
If you go up there in Canada, they get fucking angry at you.
bryan callen
I don't give a fuck.
joe rogan
They get mad.
bryan callen
Also, I don't care that you replayed the curling move in slow motion.
I didn't miss it in regular motion.
You know?
There's just certain sports I don't...
I think their skills are not sports.
joe rogan
Like, how do racists deal with the fact that there's so many elite black athletes?
How does a racist look at it?
How do you see white superiority in that many elite black athletes?
bryan callen
I've heard guys in New York, white guys would always say this about...
I'd hear white dudes in New York talk about black and white athletes like this.
They'd be like...
Well, he's a brother, so obviously he's going to be faster and stronger, but this kid over here has got heart and he's got smarts.
So the white guy's apparently got heart, he had brain, whereas the black guy only has muscle.
It was a clear indication that you're just, it was such a racist kind of way of delineating, you know?
joe rogan
Well, it's also delusional because people want to assume that because someone has physical attributes, they don't have mental attributes.
They always want to say that.
And sometimes it's true because sometimes when you have physical attributes, life is easier for you and you get soft.
You don't have to work as hard.
One of the more impressive guys in the UFC for me has always been Frankie Edgar because that guy's just a product of hard work.
He's never been a knockout puncher.
He's not the biggest guy.
He's always been small for whatever division he's in.
He's small at 55, and he's pretty small at 45 in comparison to some guys like...
Like Ortega, we fought this weekend.
Brian's much bigger than him, taller, longer.
He's just all heart and will and toughness, and I love that.
And I think that's an admirable thing, and I think you can get a lot out of watching a guy like that.
But it doesn't mean that a guy can't have that mindset and also have some fucking Ray Lewis body.
bryan callen
Well, Michael Jordan was the example of that.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
Nobody, and Kobe Bryant was the same way.
joe rogan
Nobody works harder, and they love to win in an almost psychotic way.
bryan callen
Yeah, extreme winners are that way.
joe rogan
Yeah, that whole thing, that extreme winters, is why we're here, folks.
It's why it's so compelling.
I mean, you had to have some ungodly resolve to get through the Mongol era and the fucking caveman era and think about all the different shit that's happened in between.
Just think about the people that colonized this country.
We were so far removed from people who lived here and rode wagons across the country just 200 years ago.
That's nothing.
That just happened.
bryan callen
They did this study.
Camille Paglia was talking about this.
Why were most of the people that revolutionized the human condition male?
Like, so in other words, the printing press and Einstein and Copernicus and Galileo and Kepler and, you know, all these people that kind of like, you know, and why so few women?
And so a lot of academic circles, they're the only people.
Single variable answer is that women were kept down by the patriarchy or whatever it might be.
Very condescending, though, if you think about it, because that would suggest that women didn't find their way through the cracks.
Some of them did.
But for the most part, and there's some truth to that, but for the most part, there's another really interesting theory that men have...
Men and women tend to have two different kinds of brains.
We've evolved to have two different brains because women have to watch out for children and pay attention to the minutia and keep them away from death.
Whereas men have the kind of brain that can obsess over just one thing, even if it doesn't really bear any relation to the material world.
So they can think about whether time bends or whether the relationship between time and matter and space, you know.
They'll just zero in on that problem and obsess over that problem.
And you have those extreme winners that literally, to the exclusion of everything else, including their family, including other people, focused on just one thing.
But in a lot of ways, thank God we had that aberration, because that is what revolutionizes, that is what changes a lot about how we live.
joe rogan
They're little explosions that make this thing move quicker.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
They're the combustion inside the engine that is human civilization.
Every now and then you get someone that just is an outlier.
Some Elon Musk character drilling holes under Los Angeles and building fucking power stations for solar power for people's houses.
Making fucking cars and shooting rockets into space.
bryan callen
And everybody goes, it's never gonna work, it's never gonna work, it's never gonna work.
joe rogan
He's like, shut up.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's just so much smarter.
We let him drill under the city.
We're like, go ahead.
You know what you're doing.
Everybody just lets him do it.
Can you imagine if a regular person wanted to drill underneath the cities and make tubes?
That's the dumbest idea ever.
You're going to drop down.
A car is going to go on a train, and the train's going to go really fast with the car underground.
Shut the fuck up.
bryan callen
You should have this guy, Andrew Keene, on your podcast.
I interviewed him.
He wrote a book called How to Fix the Future.
And also a book called The Internet's Not the Answer and another book called The Cult of the Amateur and kind of likens, in The Cult of the Amateur, he likens, you know the infinite monkey metaphor?
You ever heard that?
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
Yeah, it's great.
So if you had an infinite number of monkeys just banging away at a typewriter, eventually one of them would type out a masterpiece like a Shakespearean play or something.
joe rogan
Just randomly by luck.
bryan callen
Just randomly, yeah.
joe rogan
Can you imagine if that was real?
bryan callen
Yeah, and mathematically you can prove it.
joe rogan
I get it mathematically, but I still call it bullshit.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
I'm like, it doesn't make any sense.
Like, what are the odds that just randomly this monkey on just accident put the periods in the right place and the spaces in the right place and the commas in the right place?
No!
No, it's impossible.
bryan callen
It is part of the law of chance.
joe rogan
I think that law of chance can suck a fat dick.
I don't buy it.
I don't buy it.
I've heard it before by people far smarter than me.
And I'm like, no.
No, there's zero chance.
bryan callen
I know there's a chance.
But you know this raises an amazing question, right?
What's amazing is it's like human beings can actually reach beyond that which they can measure.
So it's not just what you can see and measure.
It's actually what you can imagine and what you can imagine actually is real.
It's a part of reality, right?
So infinity and all that shit, yeah.
But he said that these infinite monkeys, that's basically what YouTube and what the internet has ushered in, right?
But long story short, when you're talking about Elon Musk, he was talking about how, in his book, How to Fix the Future, the nine tech billionaires, of the nine tech billionaires, They own more wealth than 1.8 billion people on this planet.
We've actually never seen this kind of concentration of wealth.
Luckily, guys like Jeff Bezos, who he knows really well, and these other guys like Mark Zuckerberg, are kind of aware, they have some historical perspective of where they stand, and for the most part, they're doing their best to try to figure out a way to be responsible with this wealth.
joe rogan
There's also the fact that they're coming from a tech background, which is...
Historically been really fucking smart people, right?
Those are the innovators.
So because of that, they're more left-leaning.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which is probably better for everybody.
bryan callen
Because they're more cooperative or what?
joe rogan
It's just the whole tech community is more left-leaning.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, that's why anything that deviates from that is kind of punished.
bryan callen
Well, the problem, though, is that now you have the four riders of the apocalypse, Google, Facebook, Amazon, and Apple.
Mm-hmm.
There's so much.
I mean, they have access to all your data and to the maps.
So it does kind of go, you kind of go, okay, you're left leaning, but there has never been this kind of concentration of power.
joe rogan
Well, yeah, but they're not doing anything with the power that we know of.
What they do have is tremendous wealth.
Like, off the charts, tremendous wealth at Apple, at Google.
I mean, they just have tremendous amount of influence.
And I think...
When you have that kind of money, idealistic, hippie, left-wing dreamers are way better off throwing that money around than really gangster globalists that are pro-war, really enthusiastic about right-wing politics.
That would be way scarier.
If all that money, the billions of dollars, was in a Christian cult that thought that the Second Coming was going to happen in Jerusalem, so it was very important to protect Israel.
Which is real.
There's a lot of people in this country that want to protect Israel because they think that's where Jesus...
That's his pit stop when he comes back.
bryan callen
Yeah.
I do worry about...
joe rogan
Yeah, you should worry.
bryan callen
I do worry about very religious people with a messianic mission.
joe rogan
Yeah, and that's a real thing today.
So I think like secular...
bryan callen
Reason-based.
joe rogan
Techno-freaks who I might disagree with them on some of the most ridiculous aspects of progressivism.
They just go so far off the charts and it's so common now.
Everyone is getting so hysterical about things.
You know who Christina Hoff Summers is?
bryan callen
I love her.
joe rogan
She's great.
I love her.
She got literally shouted down off stage.
They interrupted her speech.
They put up signs.
They wouldn't let her talk.
They were calling her a fascist.
bryan callen
Boy, they sound really confident in their point of view, huh?
joe rogan
It's just so crazy.
bryan callen
Don't engage somebody in ideas.
Shout them down because you're terrified.
joe rogan
Well, what they're doing also is they're getting on YouTube.
So there's all these videos of them, you know, being woke, hashtag woke, expressing their wokeness.
bryan callen
I've heard that expression.
joe rogan
Yeah, I know you have.
Yeah, you were just talking about it.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a gross word.
bryan callen
I think it comes down to what I'm amazed at is I've talked to some of these far-left ideologues, you know, and And especially the people that would shout down Christina Summers, who's such a reasoned voice and such an important voice.
joe rogan
She's a sweet woman, too.
bryan callen
And smart and thought through.
joe rogan
Yeah, you've got to let her talk, and then if you disagree with her, have a conversation with her.
They typically do a Q&A at the end of these speeches.
That's just rude.
bryan callen
Try to beat her with your ideas.
joe rogan
And she's a feminist.
Her fucking podcast is called Factual Feminist.
Her thing is her video series that she does.
bryan callen
She's an important voice.
joe rogan
She's a very nice person, man.
She's not an anti-woman in any way, shape, or form.
She's not the female Uncle Tom.
I love what she has to say.
bryan callen
I've listened to her.
She wrote that book, The War on Boys.
She's excellent.
joe rogan
She's excellent.
bryan callen
But I think a lot of this is, like, one of the things I noticed is that a lot of the left-wing ideologues like that, first of all, are fairly young.
A lot of times they don't have a whole lot of experience in the world.
Or, you know, they are people who are, like, if you just take the average journalist, and I've met a lot of them now and talked to a lot of them, the average journalist, even the average academic in colleges or in the people that are kind of controlling this conversation in certain aspects...
They have just not really ever met anybody or worked with anybody that worked with their hands, that spends a lot of time that had to be in the military.
They tend to be pretty cloistered.
You know, I mean, even Sam Harris, by his own admission, said that in his Rolodex of 1,100 people, he only had one friend who smoked, and that was Christopher Hitchens.
That's significant.
It's significant when you are exposed to one element of society.
And one of the advantages that I think a comic has when you travel so much is that you're around real people.
People that work with their hands.
People that do other things that are in the military.
People that are cops.
People that are essentially a huge part of the fabric of the society.
Who are on the right and certainly on the left.
And what you start to realize is that you're...
The world is way more complicated.
It's always the way it is, right?
It's just way more complicated.
People are way less easy to pigeonhole.
Just because you supported Trump doesn't necessarily mean you're a right winger across the board.
Doesn't mean you're about the patriarchy and stuff.
And I find that a lot of young people, and I find a lot of people who are trying to be woke and stuff, and we do this as Americans.
It's not just the left, it's also the right.
We do this as Americans.
We want to find a bad guy.
And we want to put a label on that bad guy.
We want a single variable answer.
We want a single variable solution.
So in other words, you are a racist.
You are a sexist.
You are a homophobe.
So you've got to be sanctioned.
And we've got to get rid of you.
And if we can get rid of racism...
As if racism has anything to do with it, actually.
It's about tribalism.
Because people don't need a difference in skin color to hate each other.
Have you heard of the Middle East or Africa or even this country?
It's not about the melanin in your skin.
It's just we're tribal.
But we tend to want to find that one label.
You're a racist.
You're a homophobe, by the way.
joe rogan
Most certainly, racist.
bryan callen
Of course there are.
Of course there are.
joe rogan
You don't think racism is the problem that we're facing?
You think it's more of a tribalism?
bryan callen
Oh, I think that if everybody was the same color, we'd have no problem joining groups and hating each other.
No problem.
Again, please see the Middle East.
joe rogan
That's for sure.
bryan callen
Look, look, in Yuval Harari's amazing book.
joe rogan
Racism is just a symptom of that.
bryan callen
Yuval Harari's great book, Sapiens.
Everybody should read it.
joe rogan
Read it.
bryan callen
Thank you.
joe rogan
On your recommendation.
bryan callen
The Dinka and the Nua in the Sudan.
Let's just take them.
They look exactly the same.
Just Google it.
They look exactly the same.
joe rogan
Maybe you're just racist.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
Maybe it's like saying all black people look exactly the same.
bryan callen
Well, they do look...
They are basically...
The only way to tell the difference is the tribal markings.
But for the most part, they look exactly the same, very similar cultures, a herding culture.
Dinka in the Dinka language means people.
Nua in the Nua language means original people.
And they're sworn enemies.
They fucking hate each other.
Talk to Justin Wren about how the pygmies are treated in the country right next door.
They're brutally discriminated.
They can't even go to hospitals or schools because they're short and they're magic, apparently.
So go fuck yourself.
It ain't about color.
We don't need color to hate each other.
joe rogan
We definitely don't.
We would find something.
It would be neighborhoods or lines in the dirt or sports teams.
Fuck yes!
We hate each other from neighboring high schools in the same town.
bryan callen
Yes, or we compete with each other.
Maybe it's a good natured competition.
There's nothing wrong with that either.
joe rogan
There's a natural need that we have to compete against each other and conquer each other, and that's because we used to do that.
Exclusively.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
That's how people move.
That's what this Viking show is all about.
People coming into people's villages, fucking them up and taking all their gold.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
That's what people did forever.
bryan callen
Fuck yes.
But here's the other thing.
It's really taboo.
This is so fucking taboo.
Even say this now.
joe rogan
What?
Are you going to risk something right now?
bryan callen
So the narrative is those people aren't doing well.
Let's just take any group of people.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
They're not doing well.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
Because they've been...
There's only one answer to that.
They've been put down.
They've been oppressed.
They've been suppressed.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
Sometimes that's true.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
Nobody can tell me, you don't understand the history of this country unless you study the black experience, at least a little bit, because that is such a huge part of the history of this country.
unidentified
Sure.
bryan callen
And to be a black person in this country is something I have no idea about, but it hasn't been easy, granted.
Let's just take any ethnic group.
If you were to ever, like Thomas Sowell, who's a black scholar, if you were ever to bring up the idea that maybe Part of the problem in certain groups, okay, that aren't doing well, could be internal, could be of their own making, could be that there are certain aspects of that person's culture, whether they're Inuit, whether they're Mexican, whether they're black, or whether they're a hillbilly white guy.
If you start talking about the fact that their culture and the way their beliefs, their practices could have something to do with why they're not getting ahead, you better be goddamn careful, because now you're blaming the victim.
joe rogan
It is true that, well, you're not really necessarily blaming the victim, right?
Because a victim, in this case, is a person who's a part of a culture.
And we're all influenced by our environment.
And if you're involved in a culture that has very specific ways of behaving, and you're supposed to engage in these, and whether it's, you know, female genital mutilation that they do to children on a...
Regular basis in some parts of the world.
Why do they do that?
Well, they've just been doing that.
That's what they've been doing.
They just keep doing that.
There's a lot of weird things that people just get sucked into.
You don't even realize what you're doing.
You're 18. You're living that life.
Then it becomes a part of your pattern of behavior.
And then you're 35 and everyone around you is behaving the same way and the world's filled with violence.
And no one can hit the pause button and go, hey, why are we macheting each other, Hootsies and Tootsies?
What are we doing?
No one's like, stop.
Settle the fuck down.
It's like you get locked up in the momentum of your past, of the past of your family, your ancestors, your community, your environment.
Very few people have complete autonomy.
So the idea that we're supposed to ask somebody to just figure it out or get their shit together or pull themselves up by their bootstraps, it's pretty preposterous.
bryan callen
Fuck yeah!
joe rogan
And it's usually coming from people that got a nice, juicy hand.
Like, life gave you a couple of aces, and you got a seven over there, and a two, and you try to figure out if you can get a flush.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, you got a good hand.
You got lucky.
So if you say you made it with a good hand, like, oh, congratulations, you won the pot, you got dealt three aces, you cunt.
bryan callen
Exactly.
joe rogan
You got lucky.
bryan callen
Exactly.
I'll be the first to admit that.
joe rogan
You should.
bryan callen
You should be the first.
I mean, some people are born with more advantage than others.
Just a better family.
joe rogan
Well, just stop for a moment.
And I don't want to get too...
I'm already too social justice warrior-y in this podcast.
But this is one of the things that pisses me off.
I agree with so many of those twats on so many important issues.
And then they get so crazy that they want to interrupt people like Christina Hoff Summers and yell that she's a fascist and...
We just...
There's just too much conflict that doesn't make any sense today.
bryan callen
They're not reasonable.
How about that?
They're not civil or reasonable.
So I don't know where else to go.
If you're not going to be reasonable and you're going to decide that you're that right, that your side is rooted in truth and love and my side is rooted in falsehood and evil, I don't know where I'm going to go.
joe rogan
All these progressive issues are all...
No one is ever super into women's rights but racist.
They're all like, there's a pattern of behavior that you're supposed to follow.
You know, like progressivism, it's a really interesting predetermined pattern that everybody locks into because it supports gay marriage, it's like all these things.
bryan callen
Well you can, yeah, it's like if you're in favor, if you believe...
That global warming is caused by human beings.
joe rogan
You've got to be on the right.
No, you're on the left.
bryan callen
You're on the left.
You know where you stand on gay marriage, on everything else.
That's unfortunate.
You can't be sort of responsive to evidence, right?
So instead of being affiliated with a party or a candidate, be affiliated with the problem.
What's the problem?
We all agree we don't like spree shooters, right?
That sucks?
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
So there's got to be a way, if we could put our ideas together, create a little idea sex, there's got to be a way, right?
There's got to be a way to...
joe rogan
To deal with this problem.
bryan callen
Well, can we talk about the fact that we all agree that the problem sucks?
Now, you're saying we need more guns, and this other side's saying we need less guns.
Is there, is there something, is there something we can, can we at least start talking instead?
Because, you know, Brendan on the podcast said, can we agree there's a gun problem?
The fucking number of hate emails we got.
joe rogan
You do not want to give up those guns.
bryan callen
And, yeah, and Jim Jeffries was so funny because he goes, did you hear that stand-up video?
He goes, here's the argument.
Because I like them.
So fuck off.
And it's like, that's good enough.
The Constitution says that guns, we have a right to bear arms so we can protect ourselves against tyrannical government, right?
I mean, that's what the Second Amendment...
Well, you know, he's like, the government has drones, right?
They got tanks.
They got cruise missiles.
Your AR-15 ain't doing shit.
joe rogan
Here's another problem.
People need to understand this.
The government is us.
Everybody that you just described is someone who works in the military.
Everyone you just described is someone who's a soldier.
Those soldiers are civilians.
They're the same people.
They're people.
They're us.
We're not talking about some global elites that's going to take over.
They're not taking over with us.
We are not going to take over ourselves.
This is not a stupid fucking country.
The idea that somehow or another the military will start taking it.
What we have to be careful is people that have extreme power and shit judgment.
Like that cop that shot that kid in the hallway in Arizona in that horrible video.
bryan callen
That's bad.
joe rogan
White guy shooting a white guy, too, by the way.
I don't even know if that has anything to do with racism with a lot of what cops are doing.
I think some of it most certainly does, but I think a lot of it has to do with people who are just incompetent and they're police officers and they shouldn't be police officers.
And on top of that, I think the stress of the job just breaks people's brains.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
I think sometimes people are just so out of their fucking mind with worrying about being shot and dealing with trauma and dealing with violence and dealing with domestic abuse and fucking murdered kids and all the fucked up things they see every day.
Their brains are frazzled, man.
And they're stepping out into the street and then they confront somebody and they just want to fucking shoot.
They just want to shoot before they get shot.
They're on a hair trigger, man.
bryan callen
That shit happens in a couple seconds too, right?
joe rogan
Sometimes and sometimes it doesn't.
Sometimes they plant a gun on the guy.
I mean, sometimes it's absolutely a dirty cop.
You know, sometimes the guy's reaching for his wallet and they shoot him in the car with his baby in the backseat.
There's been a bunch of these things, man, and I think it boils down to more than anything people that are fucking completely incompetent at being a police officer.
What's amazing is The number of interactions where you never hear shit about, what's amazing is how many people get pulled over every day, how many people deal with a cop, how many people get questioned by a cop, how many people are in a situation where a cop has to talk to them about something that happened and nothing happens and nobody gets shot.
It's overwhelming.
The numbers of actual interactions where everything goes okay Far outweigh the dirty cop that shoots the kid in the hallway.
bryan callen
Of course.
joe rogan
And the cop that plants the taser on the guy after he shoots him.
All these different things where there's a dirty guy.
That's just people.
The number of honorable police officers is actually pretty fucking stunningly positive.
bryan callen
Absolutely.
And the number of cops that save lives or stop crimes from happening and all those things.
But, you know, human beings have this crazy brain, right, with this negativity bias where something like violence and stuff has such an effect on our brain.
Like, we're really good at seeing problems but really bad at coming up with the solutions.
Like, we tend to jump to, so if there's a problem, if it's a very, like, think about terrorism, right?
People die and it's a very scary situation.
Far more people die of diabetes.
Far more people die of heart disease.
Far more people die of the way you're eating.
Far more.
joe rogan
Far more people die from all the various pharmaceutical opiates.
bryan callen
That's exactly right.
I mean, how many people die of aspirin?
Some crazy number.
joe rogan
I think it's 10,000.
bryan callen
It's crazy.
But those things are not as sexy.
But we tend to react to the things that really scare us, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, well, violence.
Violence is what gets us, not disease.
Like, dude, I know two people who have lost loved ones to the flu this year.
unidentified
Phew.
joe rogan
Yeah, yep.
One of them was a 14-year-old girl.
bryan callen
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Yeah, the flu killed her.
bryan callen
Jesus.
joe rogan
Yeah, dude, this flu is no fucking joke.
bryan callen
I was down for two weeks.
joe rogan
Dude, it's no joke.
I got it.
Did you get it?
I was down for a couple days because I caught it really early on.
I knew it was happening and I did nothing.
I stayed home and I ate real good and I just slept all day.
bryan callen
See, I didn't sleep but I worked out.
joe rogan
You can't.
The working out ones are the worst.
bryan callen
Killed me.
joe rogan
I've had that happen before where I was thinking I was a little bit sick, and then I worked out, and it just gripped me.
bryan callen
Got me.
joe rogan
Two weeks.
bryan callen
I've never been sick like that.
I haven't been sick like that since college.
joe rogan
I was real proud of myself that I recognized it.
I was like, something's going on here.
I'm pretty in tune with when I'm feeling like a pussy, when I'm just lazy, and when my body just feels off.
And I'm like, my body feels off.
And then I was like, oh my god, I know, sweating.
I'd be sitting there.
It was chilly, and then I'd be sweating, and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna get under the covers and Netflix the fuck out of these couple of days.
bryan callen
That's so good!
Because I did that two days ago where everybody in my family was sick.
Everybody was getting cold.
Everybody around was getting cold.
It was eight hours.
I'd been sleeping eight hours.
I couldn't get out of bed.
I was like, I'm tired.
I slept.
I fucking slept for 11 hours.
Felt tip-top.
My body fought it.
I was like, I'm not moving until...
joe rogan
It's the move, man.
bryan callen
I have to get out.
joe rogan
It's the move.
And you've got to have a healthy body, folks.
This is the one thing that I got from this year, and like I said, I was really only fucked up for like two days.
But one thing I got is how wonderful it is to be healthy.
I mean, we take this fucking thing for granted, this vitality.
You take just feeling good, like right now, right now, right now.
I feel great.
I feel great.
bryan callen
Yeah, me too.
joe rogan
I ate breakfast, it worked out, I'm healthy, hanging out with my friend, having a little podcast.
bryan callen
There are two things they talk about when you do aid to a country.
Number one is this fucking behavioral scientist named, he wrote a book called Scarcity, and his name is L.R. Shafir, and I did a podcast with him.
And he studies how humans behave when they don't have enough food in their stomach.
Most economists wrote their treatises Adam Smith, the father of capitalism, was also living with his mother when he wrote The Moral Sentiments of Man and the Wealth of Nations.
joe rogan
Whoa.
bryan callen
So what you don't hear is this funny economist.
joe rogan
So he was like one of those internet marketing gurus that has like Ferraris that he rented.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
In his mom's driveway.
bryan callen
Well, you know, this woman, I was talking about the free market, and I'm a free market guy, and, you know, I'm a capitalist, and she said, that's great, and I've been inundated in sort of the extreme Milton Friedman, F.A. Hyatt kind of school of economics, but she was like, she wrote a thing called Donut Economics, and she's out of Oxford, and I can't fuck, Kate Rayburn, and she said, well, you know what they don't tell you is that when Adam Smith was writing The Wealth of Nations, the fucking handbook for all capitalists and free market guys like yourself, is that his mother was like, Adam, dinner's almost ready!
And I folded your laundry!
You know, what's that worth?
What the fuck is that worth, dude?
You know what I mean?
So you gotta take those things into account.
joe rogan
It's so funny.
bryan callen
My perspective on capitalism has always come from a full belly.
Never been hungry.
I was a wrestler, guys.
I did have to suck a lot of weight.
The point is, never been hungry.
Never had to worry about where my next meal was coming from.
Certainly never had to worry about a roof over my head.
That's a big difference between even a guy like me and you.
Your perspective is going to be different.
It's going to be dull.
joe rogan
It has to be.
There's a level of compassion, I think, that as a civilization we haven't hit.
We haven't hit the right number.
We're in this number where we don't give a fuck about each other enough.
And I think that one of the ways that that could be solved, I've been thinking a lot about universal basic income.
That if that was a possibility where you could give everybody just a small amount of money, like $12,000 a year, which is like $1,000 a month, it's basically enough to get by, but you wouldn't have to think about that then.
You wouldn't have to think about that aspect.
Like, you would always have food.
Like, if we could make sure that everybody always had food, and everybody always had a place to sleep, what would that cost?
What would it cost to eradicate homelessness?
To a point where, if you were homeless, it was a total voluntary situation.
Either you're just a nomad who likes camping, or you're mentally ill, and you just need to sleep in a box because you think that's the only way that the aliens can't get you.
There's those people, like Skid Row is filled with those people, right?
bryan callen
Crazy, crazy, yeah.
joe rogan
What percentage of our cities have homeless people in them?
Is it 3% of the city's homeless?
1% of the city's homeless?
bryan callen
In the warmer climates, it's higher.
joe rogan
Right.
How much of an impact would it be if you could just bring that down to zero?
I mean, wouldn't that be...
Just great for the way people feel about other people.
bryan callen
Well, there are societies that do that.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
Singapore and certain Scandinavian societies.
joe rogan
I'm very hippie this podcast.
This is strong weed.
bryan callen
Well, no, I mean, but you're asking a really good question because they have done these experiments.
joe rogan
20 billion.
That's it?
The U.S. could end homelessness with money used to buy Christmas decorations.
It would cost about $20 billion for the government to effectively eliminate homelessness in the United States, a housing and urban development official told the New York Times Monday, December 11, 2012. I think that's the wrong question.
Or feed a man and teach a man to fish, right?
bryan callen
Yeah, it's a really tricky stat.
You have to be careful with that.
joe rogan
It's a weird question, but it's also one that no one's addressing.
You look at people who are homeless, you go, oh, you fucking bum, get your shit together, oh, you lazy fuck, or oh, you crazy person, oh, he must be a junkie, you know?
bryan callen
Yeah, but so can I tell you, so my friend does this, works with homeless youth, and pretty extensively, hasn't done it for 20 years.
And actually, what he'll tell you, and he's a very compassionate person, but he'll tell you that The system in this city of Los Angeles, there are a lot of resources for people on the street, from places to get a computer, places to sleep, places to take a shower.
And what happens is there are a lot of people that get this network.
They figure out where to go.
And one of the things that they are talking about in this community and trying to get kids And homeless people off the street.
It's one thing.
It's a complicated issue.
But what has been said, and it was shocking to me, was they were like, the problem is the system is so easy to game.
It's so easy.
You can live on the street and when you're a youth, you can actually, if you understand how to work the system, there are so many resources that a lot of times It doesn't lend itself to really needing to get out of a situation, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, but how many of these kids are planning this out like this with a game in the system?
bryan callen
A lot of them.
joe rogan
Really?
bryan callen
Because you're a human being, so you figure out where you can get your breakfast, where you can get your shower, where you can get your computer, where you can get your hangout, where you can get all these things.
joe rogan
And you think somehow that's hurting them?
bryan callen
Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't have these resources.
I thought it was fascinating that a lot of the people that are really in the front lines and involved in this...
Saying that the the ironic and frustrating thing sometimes can be that it does create not complacency but certainly There are way more resources than you think there are people that have worked very hard to address this problem and People do it when they know where to go.
They do know where to get food.
They do know where to get a shower They do know where to do right so they can live on the street But there's many levels to this, right?
joe rogan
First of all, one of the big levels, the inescapable, is mental illness.
There's a lot of people that are wandering around the street that really should probably be in some sort of an institution getting health care and medicated.
But how do you force someone to do that?
And is that the issue?
Or is it a funding issue?
That was an issue apparently when Reagan was in office.
They lowered the standard of what's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
And they just let a bunch of dudes just wander through the streets.
bryan callen
That actually wasn't...
It was a little bit more complicated than that.
It was that the state doesn't have a right to keep you against your will if you don't want to be.
So there had to be very specific criteria for that.
So this whole thing with gun control, like we need...
It's a mental health issue.
If you talk to the psychiatrist, they'll be like, look, dude, the criteria for saying and getting somebody essentially classified as a danger to society and a real threat is very steep.
It's hard to do.
You can't do that because somebody talks to themselves.
You can't do it because they're hearing voices.
joe rogan
Well, the FBI went to visit that kid two years ago.
Right.
The kid who shot up the school in Florida, and they decided he wasn't a threat.
But he might not have been a threat two years ago.
People saying, oh, you know, they visited him two years ago.
They're incompetent.
No, he might be a different person now.
You have to realize that, like, people get way worse.
Like, we've all known people that we knew at one point in time in their life, and then you don't see them for six years, and then you see them, and you're like, whoa.
Well, that's because people evolve, and sometimes they evolve, and sometimes they don't.
Sometimes they recede.
Sometimes it gets ugly.
Sometimes they go crazy.
bryan callen
Weren't you talking about how, because 20% of boys in this fucking country are diagnosed with ADHD? Yes.
20%?
joe rogan
Misdiagnosed.
bryan callen
Of course, because you have a doctor who spends 10 minutes with you, who's not an expert on ADHD. It could be a thousand other things.
I retweeted it.
It could just be a boy.
joe rogan
It was on Rhonda Patrick posted up the study.
bryan callen
And then we're drugging them.
joe rogan
And did you know that ADHD was something that, wasn't that the one that was created?
Google this too, sorry.
ADHD was the one that was created by the advertising agency.
bryan callen
What a surprise.
No way.
joe rogan
There's been several conditions that were literally invented by advertising agencies in order to promote a cure.
bryan callen
So it's attention deficit hyperactive disorder.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Look, I don't know how much of that is a real disease.
Maybe some of it is.
Maybe, I'm obviously not an expert, maybe some of it is a kid whose brain works different.
Let me tell you something, man.
My dog might have ADHD or whatever the fuck it is.
I go to see him and he goes crazy.
He's out of his fucking mind because he thinks we're going running.
He's running around in circles.
He's hopping up and down.
He bolts back and forth into the backyard.
He's like a maniac.
I can't control him.
You know what the solution for that is?
I take him running.
I don't lock him in a room and then drug him.
bryan callen
That's what you're doing with little kids.
You know when I was really focused?
You know when I wasn't focused?
Algebra.
You know when I was really focused?
If somebody started talking about fighting and how to throw a right hand.
joe rogan
Just think about what I'm saying with my dog.
I mean, there's really something to that.
Like, that dog wanted to go run.
And if I forced him to sit into a room, he would go crazy.
He would bark and he wouldn't want to do that.
That's how kids are.
bryan callen
Exactly.
joe rogan
It's the same goddamn thing.
There it is.
The drugging of the American boy.
But what was the tweet, Jamie?
Is this an Esquire article?
What did the tweet say?
One in five boys will be diagnosed with ADHD by the time they make it to high school.
To date, only one significant study has looked at ADHD misdiagnosis and found 20 to 25% of boys were misdiagnosed.
And this was before ADHD was as common as it is now.
So they're saying it's a real issue.
I know quite a few people that are drugging their kids.
I think it's outrageous.
My next door neighbor, they put their fucking kid on Ritalin.
There was nothing wrong with this kid.
I talk to that kid all the time.
bryan callen
It's fucked up.
unidentified
It does some bad things to him.
joe rogan
The kid just had too much energy, and they didn't want to deal with it, and they weren't paying attention to him.
They worked all day, and then the kid's bouncing off the walls, and no one wants to take care of the kid, and so they put him on Ritalin.
bryan callen
Awful.
joe rogan
Dude, it's happening everywhere.
It's happening all across America.
bryan callen
It has very bad side effects, some of these drugs.
unidentified
Oh!
joe rogan
Look at this.
6.4 million children between the ages of 4 and 17 have been diagnosed with ADHD. By high school, nearly 20% of all boys will have been diagnosed with ADHD. A 37% increase since 2003. My son is a classic example of a kid who doesn't like to sit still in rough houses.
Google the origin of ADHD. Schools have no time for it.
Of course.
bryan callen
They have no time for boy energy.
You're condemned because it's aggressive.
joe rogan
You're asking a boy to not be a boy.
bryan callen
He's being told that his hands are hot lava and he can't use his hands.
That's healthy.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
What kind of liberal school are you taking your fucking career to?
bryan callen
Public school.
Public school.
That's what happens.
joe rogan
That's awful.
bryan callen
This is what we're dealing with.
joe rogan
Yeah, 1900 ADHD was first mentioned in 1902. British pediatrician, so it must be a wrong one, a different one, described an abnormal defect of moral control in children.
He found that some affected children could not control behavior the way a typical child would, but they were still intelligent.
Maybe it was restless leg syndrome.
Was that it?
bryan callen
Didn't you tell me?
unidentified
I feel like that one might have been, but I don't know.
joe rogan
Who was the guest?
Do you remember the guest?
It was a woman.
Who's telling us all about this?
Some medical expert.
Was it Kelly Brogan?
It might have been.
Might have been Kelly Brogan.
Dr. Kelly Brogan.
bryan callen
But didn't you say, aren't there studies about school shooters and a lot of them were on SSRIs and stuff?
joe rogan
Yes.
Mass shooters.
Not just school shooters.
All on some kind of a drug.
Even the Vegas guy.
The Vegas guy was on anti-anxiety medication.
Wow.
Yeah, that stuff, and that's also...
Chris Cornell was on anti-anxiety medication.
There's a lot of people who are on psych drugs who lose their fucking minds.
Because psych drugs are not universal, right?
Like, there's no thing...
Like, here's a perfect example.
Say if...
You have, there's a solution that makes alcohol 91 octane, right?
And you add something to that.
You can add some additives and it'll spike it up.
And you could try to find the right mixture.
But that's just fucking gasoline.
You're throwing things in there and trying to mix it up.
You don't know exactly what the right thing is.
That's how they're doing your brain.
bryan callen
Correct.
joe rogan
When they're giving you these things.
That's why they say try this one.
There's not like, okay, you have one cup of flour.
You need two eggs and one tablespoon of sugar.
unidentified
No, no, no, no, no.
joe rogan
There's no specific recipe.
And what the fuck does feel good mean?
bryan callen
The other thing that they're not taking into account is that, you know, you might be depressed for a good reason.
In other words, if you made me do a job I hated and I wasn't allowed to work out or I didn't know how to eat or a thousand things that make me feel good, because I have to self-regulate.
I'm 51 and I still have to self-regulate because otherwise I'll go crazy.
If I don't have, if I didn't know how to do those things, I would probably be depressed.
Now, now you're gonna give me drugs.
Well, that's not gonna help me.
joe rogan
Well, here's what I think, man.
bryan callen
Because what I'm doing, my behavior is what it is.
joe rogan
For sure.
But here's what I think.
You gotta recognize that that kid, your son, who has that energy, that's a gift.
And what you're doing is you're making him squander that gift by sitting him down in a fucking chair and he wants to go crazy.
That kid is supposed to be like my dog, running around all day.
Okay?
My dog is a year old.
That's seven.
He's a seven-year-old dog, basically.
You know, in dog years.
And he's like a seven-year-old kid.
He's running around.
He's going fucking crazy.
You know, but that's because he wants to run.
bryan callen
Exactly.
joe rogan
But once he runs...
bryan callen
He's fine.
joe rogan
...the dog is the best.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
And your kid will be too.
If your kid was involved in something where they emphasized physical movement and then taught things in between workouts, taught things in between classes, you know, play a game outside, play a little dodgeball, play a little soccer, play a little basketball.
Then, after you wear yourself out a little, come sit down and we're going to teach about math.
Teach them about math.
And then, you know, you're going to show them, this is leverage.
We're all going to pick things up.
Can you think I can pick it up?
Like, let them now pick it up with leverage.
Oh, you see?
You understand?
You could teach kids in a very physical way instead of forcing them to sit down.
Who the fuck wants to sit in that hard-ass chair where you feel other people's gum on the top of your leg?
You know, it sucks.
bryan callen
It sucks.
joe rogan
You're sitting there.
Waiting for the fucking class to be over, stuck in some room.
bryan callen
Let them get their energies out.
Let them move around.
Did I ever tell you that my acting teacher, who looked at me one time, is the greatest, and he goes, I've done a scene, and he goes, you know what we got with you?
Got a little self-esteem problem.
You think of yourself as a second banana.
And I was like, what?
He goes, yeah, you gotta start believing in yourself more.
joe rogan
Sounds like an acting coach who was trying to fuck you.
bryan callen
He goes, you gotta start thinking of yourself as a first banana.
joe rogan
Did he say this when he was in his underwear?
bryan callen
He did.
I was wearing black lace undies.
He goes, put these black lace undies on.
There you go, and I'm gonna pierce your nipples.
What's that?
unidentified
Why?
bryan callen
Why do you smell like cologne?
joe rogan
It's a leopard seal.
bryan callen
This is weird.
So he says that to me, and I'm a young actor, and I'm fucked up over it.
I'm like, I've got to get better.
I've got to get higher self-esteem.
So I say to my buddies, kind of a group of guys, one of my buddies is older and wiser, and I said, man, I was told I have low self-esteem, you know?
And I heard a voice in the back over there that goes, thank God.
unidentified
laughter And I go, huh?
bryan callen
And they go, you really think you'd be this funny if you fucking liked yourself, bro?
And you think you'd be a fucking actor if you liked yourself?
Go fuck yourself.
That guy's an asshole.
Keep hating yourself.
It's the best part of you.
joe rogan
Maybe that's how that guy tanks men.
unidentified
Fuck!
bryan callen
I know!
I was like, you're right!
I like that.
The whole point, the whole thing that drives me is the fact that I've never been satisfied with myself.
And I'm never going to lose that.
If you make me really happy with myself, I'm not so sure it's a good thing.
joe rogan
You know what you gotta figure out how to do, I think, not you, but I think humans, to somehow or another disconnect you from the result.
If you could figure out a way to disconnect you from the result, you could look at it more objectively.
You're gonna feel the sting of failure.
It's a fact.
But you have to recognize what that is and intellectualize it.
You gotta put it in this little box.
Okay, this is good, because now I'm gonna be fucking pumped up to improve.
I'm gonna recognize the urgency and failure, because it's so extremely uncomfortable.
But that's not me.
What me is is the person who's doing this and I'm eventually going to be a finished product.
I'm going to figure this out.
But right now, that little thing that happened that sucks, like, okay, don't freak out.
Everybody fucks up.
Maybe you fucked up this way, but you didn't run into someone's car.
Maybe you did run into someone's car, but you didn't do this.
Everybody's got their own little fuck up.
bryan callen
Failure is a huge part of success.
joe rogan
It's a giant part of being a human.
You've got to understand the consequences of doing something incorrectly.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And especially the humiliating feeling of being, like, put in your place.
Like, you might think you're good at something and then you fail at it.
You go, oh my god.
Like, I have this elevated sense of how good I was at this thing.
Now I have to look at it more objectively and I have to get to that place where I thought I was.
bryan callen
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
Yeah, just people don't want to work.
bryan callen
Well, I had Andy Galpin.
Have you had Andy Galpin?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's great.
bryan callen
Very smart guy.
joe rogan
Brilliant guy.
bryan callen
I said, what's best for recovery?
And he goes, why do you want to recover?
I said, what do you mean?
He goes, well, why don't you let your body adapt and figure it out?
Just eat some food, see how it feels, but maybe suffer a little bit and see what that does because your body might have to compensate and get stronger as a result.
unidentified
Sure.
bryan callen
It's kind of an interesting way of looking at it.
joe rogan
I think there's definitely something to that.
I mean, I think that's why people push, right?
That's what pushing is.
It's forcing adaptation.
Your body's going, oh my god, this asshole wants to deadlift now.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
Okay, I've got to adapt now.
That's also what the sauna is.
Your body's trying to adapt.
Okay, this asshole wants to live at 170 degrees.
I have to figure out how to keep everything from shutting down.
Let's mass produce these heat shock proteins and try to figure out, you know, how to get norepinephrine.
unidentified
It's also what...
bryan callen
It's also what, like, being honest with somebody is, right?
So, like, it's also kind of like sitting and hearing things you don't want to hear about yourself, maybe shortcomings, right?
unidentified
Sure.
bryan callen
When somebody says something to you, like, you're not taking yourself, you're not working hard enough, or you're not working correctly, or you did this wrong, or your ideas are a bit bankrupt, let me tell you why.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
That shit is not fun to hear.
unidentified
At all.
bryan callen
But it's exactly like working out.
If you could just sit and listen and take it in, not argue it, listen, take it in, feel bad for a while, I promise you, I promise you, that's probably the best way to change.
Listening and hearing it, because it'll bother you, let it bother you, and then let that spurn you to action.
joe rogan
But if you want to shout Christina Summers down, or you want to get into your safe space and not hear those things because they hurt We're good to
go.
Was doing a speech and they were literally at the windows.
They climbed the walls and got to the windows and were banging on the windows from the outside while the speech went on.
Dude, it's disturbing.
And everyone inside is super calm and there's people that keep an eye on the window because you hear it cracking.
Like they're just smashing this fucking window, just banging up against it the entire time he's talking.
unidentified
You just hear, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
joe rogan
And they're yelling shit outside about fascism or...
They don't even know what the fuck that means.
They literally are just saying it for anybody who disagrees with them.
When a real fascist comes along, they're going to be so duped.
bryan callen
They'll be shot.
They'll be lined up against a wall and shot.
That's what fascists do.
Real fascists.
joe rogan
But they seem to think that disagreeing with people who are out of their fucking mind equates fascism.
bryan callen
They don't have any confidence.
They have no confidence, right?
Why do you say that?
Well, because if you're having an argument with somebody and you end up hitting them because they're saying things you don't like, it means you don't have the ideas to compete with their ideas.
joe rogan
Well, I don't think it's that, dude.
I think they're just young and they don't understand what the fuck they're doing.
They're enjoying this ability to scream out.
bryan callen
It's like a tantrum.
unidentified
They're practicing.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They've got way too much power.
They're children.
They're essentially children.
Yeah, they could go to war, some of them, but that's not right anyway.
They probably shouldn't be able to.
It should probably be like 21 before you make that decision.
The whole thing's fucking crazy.
It's crazy that they don't have enough security to keep the fucking kids from banging on the windows.
What kind of nonsense facility do you run?
You just didn't see that coming?
Do you have the internet?
Do you guys have the internet?
You see what's going on?
bryan callen
It's kind of new though.
American culture is always...
unidentified
No, it's not.
joe rogan
It's been a few years.
bryan callen
No, I'm saying American culture has always given their kids recently too.
Jonathan Knight talks about this, like helicopter parenting and sort of the idea that your kid has his own autonomy and it's very important.
I've seen all the new science on this.
joe rogan
For sure, yeah.
bryan callen
Your kid is allowed to exercise their point of view and have a tantrum and then you have to show them that there are consequences for that.
You know, that's a new way of looking at, you know, a lot of cultures are like, hey, if you fucking talk to me like that again, I'm gonna hit you in the fucking, I'm gonna take this riding crop and whack your fucking legs or whatever it might be.
So, I don't know.
joe rogan
Well, we've got it real soft right now.
It's a real easy time to be alive.
And I think ultimately the ship's gonna bounce out.
I really do.
And I think ultimately a lot of these kids that are super radical now will probably stabilize as they get older and more experienced and be more embarrassed with some of the things they've done to Especially to disrupt free speech.
They should really be embarrassed by that because it's so foolish.
All you have to do is formulate a really good argument to what that idea is, and then you play those ideas out in the court of public opinion.
You do it in some sort of a way where you have...
One person representing one side, one person representing the other side, and you beat that idea with better ideas.
And that's what you're supposed to do.
That's the whole exercise.
And these people that oppose your ideas, you should use that to challenge you to improve your ideas, to make your ideas undeniable.
So that when you present that argument, you've looked at it from both sides.
There's far too many people, including these people that are interrupting people, that are only looking at an argument from the point of view that they would like to be correct.
They're only looking at it like she's a fascist, she's a Nazi.
They're not looking at her and going, hey, maybe that's just a lady, and maybe she's a nice lady, and maybe she's got some points, and maybe I agree with her, and maybe I don't.
But you've got to let her talk.
This is all nonsense.
Holding signs up and trying to get attention.
This is not the time for that.
bryan callen
It doesn't persuade anybody over to your side, I'll tell you that much.
joe rogan
They're not even trying to do that.
They're just trying to recruit the troops.
And then also they're trying to send out a flag that they care and they're out here doing the right goddamn thing.
Using my voice.
I'm out here using my voice.
It's like, no, you're being a little kid that's interrupting another person's speech.
bryan callen
Well, they're being tribal.
They're in their tribe and it's way easier to be against something than to define what they're for.
If you ever ask them what they're for, like I had this conversation with this woman.
joe rogan
Good quality, bro.
bryan callen
What's that?
joe rogan
Equality.
bryan callen
Well, they don't know what that means.
joe rogan
Including comedians.
I want an equal number.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do you see what happened with Bert?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Someone wants an equal number of comedians, men and women.
bryan callen
It's the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life.
Are you funny enough to be on the stage?
Okay, then I don't give a fuck what you look like.
joe rogan
I don't care if you're...
Nobody wants to hear that.
bryan callen
Yeah.
unidentified
Fuck you.
joe rogan
Remember when Jerry Seinfeld got in trouble?
Because they were like, why is comedian cars having coffee all white guys?
bryan callen
Well, I don't know, but, you know, there are a lot of funny white guys, so fuck off.
A lot of funny black guys, too.
joe rogan
Well, that's what Jerry Seinfeld said.
He said, essentially, I don't care what color they are.
I speak the language of comedy.
I care if they're funny.
bryan callen
Exactly.
joe rogan
And they were like, that sounds racist.
bryan callen
They're so dumb.
joe rogan
They're like, I'm so sorry, but that sounds racist.
bryan callen
And you're dumb.
And you're fucking dumb.
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
What would you say if you were there and that lady said that?
Because there was a woman, two guys are sitting, a guy and a girl are sitting there talking, and they played the Jerry Seinfeld clip.
And then the woman, who was an African-American, was like, I'm sorry, but that's racist.
And I was sitting at home watching it going, how was it?
bryan callen
And I'd say Kevin Hart's the biggest comic in the world, and most of his audiences, most of his ticket payers are white.
He's undeniable.
Most of the people that go to his movies are white.
And he's earned it, because he's fucking hilarious.
joe rogan
Right, but that doesn't have anything to do with what she's saying is that, He's racist because he's not having black people on his show.
bryan callen
I don't know how to argue with that.
joe rogan
And he's saying, no, I don't even care.
I just care, are they funny?
I don't care.
Diversity doesn't mean anything to me.
I don't care.
And she's like, that's so racist.
But I feel like...
When you say something's racist today, you don't have to back it up anymore.
bryan callen
I agree.
joe rogan
People just back off, especially if you're saying a white person's racism.
If you say a white person's racist, everybody pulls out the microphone, the magnifying glass.
bryan callen
Wait a minute.
joe rogan
What have we got here?
Are we looking at a racist?
bryan callen
But they'll also say this.
joe rogan
You're racist and you don't even know it.
bryan callen
Yeah, you're racist and you don't know it.
You don't even know it.
Like, the white supremacy is everywhere.
joe rogan
Well, they teach that at schools now.
bryan callen
Yes, I know.
joe rogan
They teach that also at some jobs.
bryan callen
That's why you have to go to bias training.
joe rogan
Yeah, bias training.
bryan callen
Anti-bias training.
joe rogan
What do they call it?
bryan callen
I think it's anti-bias training.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Subconscious?
Subconscious bias training?
Like, you might even realize you're racist and you are racist.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
bryan callen
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
How many black guys have gotten laid because of all this, though?
bryan callen
Hopefully a lot.
joe rogan
A lot.
A lot of hippie white chicks just want to show they're not racist.
unidentified
I love it.
joe rogan
Just get dicked down.
bryan callen
I mean, it's just...
unidentified
And I'm in the corner jerking off.
What?!
bryan callen
And crying.
joe rogan
It's just weird, man.
I've never seen us so divided.
And part of it has to do with Trump, for sure.
There's this reaction that they feel really obligated to act.
People feel obligated to act and try to make things change, which I think is ultimately good.
All of what's going on right now does not concern me nearly as much as it does a lot of other people.
Because I feel like people are already reacting to it and already going, what in the fuck?
And the ship is already starting to right itself.
bryan callen
Well, the Oscars was the lowest rated, I think, in the history of the Oscars.
joe rogan
I heard that, but it's also 26 million people watched.
That's a lot of fucking people.
That's a lot.
Don't shit on someone who got 26 million people.
bryan callen
No, but I think people were afraid to be.
People get very kind of like, whoa, we're getting political here.
joe rogan
That's true, but when they looked at the numbers, the numbers were, they were comparing it to like 2013. Yeah.
They're down 5 million from 2013, I think it was.
Guess what wasn't around 2013?
Netflix!
bryan callen
True.
joe rogan
There's a lot more shit to watch.
unidentified
True.
joe rogan
What's it down from last year?
There's definitely people that are bored with Hollywood, though.
Like, enough.
bryan callen
Well, they...
Hollywood's overreach.
I think Hollywood tends to be...
What bothers me about Hollywood is their virtue signaling.
Like, they're gonna set an example, you fucking guys.
Like, you want to be liked, okay?
And you're as fickle as it gets.
They were the same people that were standing up and clapping for Roman Polanski.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
I'm sorry, man.
joe rogan
Well, some of them were.
Some of them were really saying some ridiculous shit.
bryan callen
Come on, guys.
joe rogan
It's a long time ago.
bryan callen
He drugged and sodomized a 13-year-old.
joe rogan
I think he fucked more than one, too.
bryan callen
Yeah.
So, guess what?
I can't have that guy...
You're not getting...
They wanted to sign a position and bring him back in the country.
I can't forgive that.
joe rogan
No.
bryan callen
Stay in France.
joe rogan
Well, they want to bring him back to the country to arrest him, and they're really trying hard to do that.
And there's people that resist that.
unidentified
I think he's an amazing artist, and, you know, artists are just different.
bryan callen
Just be consistent, though.
You know, be consistent.
joe rogan
That's where I draw the line.
You can't drug kids and fuck them in the ass.
bryan callen
I mean, Asia Argento, who was one of the people that came out against Harvey Weinstein, she had been raped by him, apparently, and then she had a sexual relationship for ten years afterwards, which, by the way, people are like, ah, I actually forgive that because people go back to the trauma, right?
They want to relive it on their own terms.
Mm-hmm.
But she signed the petition for Roman Polanski to be freed when he was put under arrest in, I believe it was Switzerland.
Now, that's not consistent.
I'm sorry, man.
I'm sorry.
But if that guy is just as bad as, yeah, you can see the petition online.
joe rogan
What was her perspective?
bryan callen
She was somebody who thought Roman Polanski should not be prosecuted for something that happened a long time ago.
She signed that petition.
I would never sign that petition.
So there's a lot of disconnect.
So I have a big problem with that sort of disconnect.
That's a problem.
I don't know this woman.
I don't know her.
I believe what she says about Harvey Weinstein.
And again, people are like, well, she went back to the scene of the crime.
That's very common.
But don't sign a petition and then now be this leading voice in this whole anti-harassment.
I think it's very inconsistent.
I think you have to at least answer to that.
joe rogan
Did she comment on why she signed it?
bryan callen
I think there was a mea culpa there, but it's very inconsistent.
And there's a lot of that out there.
There's a lot of that out there.
joe rogan
We should make sure that she definitely did that.
bryan callen
You'll see it.
joe rogan
Just see if you can Google that, young Jamie.
It feels like something.
I looked it up.
bryan callen
I actually looked it up.
I wanted to see who had signed that petition.
I came across her name and I was like, whoa, that doesn't make any sense to me.
It just doesn't make any sense, man.
I don't get it.
joe rogan
I don't know enough about what happened.
I know that he drugged and sodomized some young girl.
bryan callen
She was 13. And her mom dropped her off, I believe.
joe rogan
Why was she there?
bryan callen
You know, it was the 70s, man.
Apparently she looked every bit of 20, all that shit, the year.
But I believe he knew she was 13, then he knew he was gonna go away to jail, and he left the country.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ.
bryan callen
Yeah.
And then apparently there's another woman that he had done that to.
joe rogan
Imagine being on the scene back then, how weird that must have been.
Like, there had been...
Like, think about...
Roman Polanski making movies in like what the 1970s, right?
bryan callen
Yeah, I mean got Chinatown.
joe rogan
It's only amazing.
Yeah amazing.
They'd only been making movies for like a few decades It was a real new thing.
jamie vernon
She signed the petition, but I found a tweet She just put she put out a couple months ago where she said she regretted doing it.
joe rogan
I already regretted the signing the petition years ago She said Roman Polanski's a filmmaker whose work I admire greatly But if I ever see him I'll spit in his face if he's lucky Yeah, but you signed the petition.
I already regretted signing the petition years ago.
I already felt it was a mistake.
No excuses.
It was stupid.
This indicates a pattern of behavior that if true, and I believe it to be true, is beyond unforgivable.
Well, I think you got a good point, though, about...
She made a mistake, and there is something that happens to people that have been violated.
Sometimes they blame themselves.
bryan callen
That's what I said.
I forgive that.
joe rogan
And there could be a little of that in her decision-making process, too.
bryan callen
I can't...
joe rogan
There could be a little bit of wanting to be in with Hollywood, you know?
bryan callen
That's not ethically or morally consistent, though.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
And she fucked up, and she realized she fucked up.
bryan callen
But you're also coming after people now.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
bryan callen
You know, if we're gonna...
And a lot of these people, you know...
Deserved to be come after, but, you know, we have to be consistent here.
joe rogan
Right, but isn't she being consistent by just saying that she fucked up and she realized that she fucked up?
bryan callen
Well, there are a lot of people that are saying that once they get caught.
joe rogan
Well, that petition doesn't mean jack shit.
They ain't letting them...
bryan callen
It doesn't matter.
You signed it and it was a...
I don't know anybody that would sign that.
Like, I would never sign that petition.
That's all I'm trying to say.
Be consistent.
joe rogan
If the guy came to America and got arrested...
And went through the trial and then got convicted.
How much time would you do?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
I don't know.
What's interesting is like, would it be better, karmically, to go to jail for what he did, come back, go to jail, and then no one, everyone would always know when you got out that you were convicted and you were punished For child molestation like you did it and they got you everyone would know whereas now He's living in France and he has to deal with it floating over his head everyone who meets me knows that I drugged and raped a kid Everywhere
I go Everyone knows I drugged and raped a kid and it just keeps playing out in his head all day public shaming is Powerful shit.
I mean that's the highest level.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
This is drugging and raping a kid.
bryan callen
I'm a forgiving guy Can't forgive that one.
I can't.
Like, I'm a forgiving dude, man.
I don't stay mad, and I think it's good to be forgiving about things.
There are certain things that to me, and he's a great filmmaker and a great artist.
For me, that kind of stuff, it's very difficult, man.
It's very difficult.
I had an argument with a bunch of older actors about this, and they were all saying it was a long time ago.
I was like, if it was your daughter and she was 13, how would you feel?
You just got to keep going back to that.
joe rogan
Well, especially if you actually have a daughter.
If you actually have a daughter, you're not conceptualizing that.
You've got it actually locked into your brain.
You're actually thinking about your daughter, and it becomes a completely different thing.
I remember thinking when I was young, you know, yeah, if someone did that to my daughter, but that was like, before I had a kid, it was like, that was just a weird concept.
It didn't seem real.
But now you think about this 13-year-old girl, and you're like, whoa.
bryan callen
But what a court would do and what a trial would do is you might hear something like, I don't know, but you might hear, I don't know, she said she was 20. When we talk about drugging, hold on, she smoked a little weed that that guy gave her over there.
Let's be careful, right?
Yeah.
Then you start hearing all the extenuating circumstances, and maybe you would go, you got to do the time, but at least I get how that happened because you thought it was something different, right?
What was your intention?
What did you see?
But we don't know that.
So what happens is we start, and we're doing this too, and I'm doing it.
I don't know all the details of the case.
Of course.
And all I'm saying is that he drugged and sodomized a 13-year-old girl.
joe rogan
Do you think it's possible that everyone was drugged, him included?
bryan callen
Well, this is what I'm saying.
We all have to be careful, and I have to too, because I'm kind of breaking my own rule here.
I'm drawing these very strong, hard and fast, like there's no context in what I'm saying, right?
There's no nuance in what I'm saying, there's no context.
And you've got to be careful, because everything is nuanced and context.
In a way, otherwise you're taking me at just the words I'm saying.
joe rogan
What I'm seeing from this is, like, she's upset and you're upset.
Like, she's upset she signed it, and you're upset she signed it.
But that doesn't mean nearly as much to me.
Like, people making a mistake, like her making that mistake, doesn't mean much to me.
It's just a mistake.
bryan callen
I forgive it.
I'm not saying...
joe rogan
But here's the thing.
There's no consequences.
No one got hurt because of that mistake.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, it was a mistake she fucked up, but it didn't ultimately hurt anyone.
Like...
I don't like the fact that someone would at least temporarily have that thought in their mind like that guy should be free, like leave him alone.
What's bygone to be bygone?
bryan callen
I'm actually talking about something different.
joe rogan
What are you talking about?
bryan callen
So I'm talking about the idea that Hollywood tends to do.
I was just using her as an example.
Hollywood tends to do that which is popular.
That which is going to make them liked rather than something that's morally or ethically consistent.
Sure.
That's what I mean, right?
joe rogan
Well, we've talked about this before, that it all comes down to the whole process of being chosen to do things.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Or being chosen to direct or chosen to act.
Everybody's constantly working to be chosen.
You're all trying to audition for things or trying to angle to get a certain role.
It's a constant process of like me, like me, like me.
And these are people that go into this job with this yearning desire to be loved.
Yeah.
And then on top of that, they're playing this weird political game.
I mean, acting is all political.
I mean, it doesn't make any sense that every other occupation, except maybe tech.
Tech's probably, like, mostly liberal.
But Hollywood's almost exclusively liberal.
And if you step out of those lines, nobody wants to work with you anymore.
bryan callen
Well, Hollywood on the surface is liberal, but actually...
Nobody who's conservative or whatever will speak out.
joe rogan
Right, like Tim Allen lost his show.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because he's conservative.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's an old white guy.
What do you expect?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Old white guys?
bryan callen
Yeah, that's a very real thing nowadays.
joe rogan
Start hanging out with Dennis Miller?
bryan callen
Yeah, Dennis Miller, same thing.
joe rogan
He went fucking straight Republican.
bryan callen
James Woods is crazy.
joe rogan
James Woods is arguing with people on Twitter.
Like, James, you're 70 years old.
bryan callen
Yeah, he goes crazy.
joe rogan
How many days you got left?
How many moments in your life do you really have left?
Do you have a thousand?
Like, what are you gonna do?
Are you gonna waste 400 of them on Twitter?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's not wise.
That's not a wise thing.
bryan callen
Well, he said he was blackballed for his conservative views.
joe rogan
Was he really?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't know.
bryan callen
I don't know, man.
Maybe he was.
I don't want to be, um, I don't know if I'm being helpful, right?
joe rogan
How so?
bryan callen
Well, so, you know, you call out certain people or you talk about the inconsistencies.
Most people are doing the best they can at trying to make the world a better place, right?
joe rogan
Are they?
I think most people are just like rolling downhill in a hamster wheel.
bryan callen
You think so?
joe rogan
Trying to figure out how to stop this fucking thing.
Yeah, most people are just on full-on momentum.
Most people are definitely not thinking about how to make the world a better place.
Occasionally people think of that.
What they try to think is, how do I get by?
Number one.
Then how do I get better?
How do I get ahead?
Number two.
Those are the things they think of.
And occasionally, what's going on?
What's happening over there?
Fucking Trump.
And then they go back to work.
bryan callen
Well, that's all you can do sometimes.
joe rogan
Yeah, most people.
That's most people.
It's a guy like James Woods.
It's like, Jesus, James.
I get it, but you're not changing hearts and minds on Twitter.
It says funny shit, though, sometimes.
bryan callen
I was going to say, the biggest thing is, it's really hard to persuade anybody.
It's fucking basic.
I was thinking about the times I've changed my mind.
Hard to change my mind.
joe rogan
I never change it in an argument.
I changed it in a conversation.
I don't mind changing my mind.
I think that's important too.
I've changed my mind before and people got mad at me.
Bro, you fucking changed your mind.
I'm like, yeah, I changed my mind.
I learned some new stuff and I went, oh, okay.
I can't defend this old idea and I'm not an idea.
bryan callen
It's stupid.
What's the first rule in being a scientist?
Doubt, ignorance.
You don't know anything.
And then you make sure that you're responsive to the evidence.
And then even if you build up a whole reputation on your conclusion, you have to be willing to change your conclusion based upon new evidence.
You have to be responsible.
joe rogan
What are you, a finished product?
bryan callen
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
You're a finished product?
Oh, it's amazing.
bryan callen
You're a verb.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I'm definitely smarter than I was three months ago.
bryan callen
Different person, too.
How about the difference between you when you were 28 and now?
unidentified
It's totally different human.
bryan callen
Like, I was a different person.
joe rogan
Yeah, totally different human.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
But that raises an interesting question, too.
So, okay, you're a very different person now.
joe rogan
But what if you did something awful then, like committed murder?
bryan callen
That's what I mean.
joe rogan
Like, when should they let you go?
bryan callen
Right, and now at 51, I'm so different than when I was 21. Sure.
I don't remember that.
I was such a moron.
joe rogan
I was a moron at 30. I remember feeling that awkward lack of control I had for myself, like feeling how awkward it was and wishing I had more composure.
I remember like actively feeling that at 21, that it was so impulsive and so crazy and I wished I was more composed.
And I would see people that had their shit together and I would really admire them.
Like, look at that guy all composed and shit.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Dressed nice.
Knows what to say when not to say it.
Meanwhile, I would blurt things out that I should never say.
bryan callen
How about the way you look?
I was thinking about the way I looked at certain things, like women and their capabilities.
When I was a young man, you know what changed me in looking at women in a different light?
The UFC and having children with a woman.
And watching how good she was at raising kids and all the things that that takes.
That's a certain type of strength.
And then watching women like Paige Van Zandt fight three rounds with a broken arm.
That was all something that I didn't think belonged.
That was an arena I was not aware of, that kind of Feminine strength or fortitude or whatever you want to call it.
It causes me to look at that gender differently than I did before.
So in a lot of ways I'm a different person.
And as you get older that's what happens.
You see the world differently as you are exposed to more data and exposed to more and different paradigms and examples.
And I think that's a good thing.
joe rogan
It is a good thing.
It's also, it's ridiculous.
The female-male debate back and forth is ridiculous because people vary so much inside those groups that for someone to say, all women do this, women are all thinking this, women are...
No, no.
That doesn't make any sense.
That's just as stupid as saying, men all do this.
All men do this.
No, that doesn't make any sense.
We're fucking human beings.
There's a great number of men that do this stupid thing.
And a great number of women that say this annoying thing.
There's a great number of people that are just looking to skate by in this life.
Men and women.
There's a great number of dummies.
There's a great number of really inspirational, fantastic people that also have vaginas.
There's a lot of them.
A lot of fucking really smart ones that'll blow your mind in a conversation and they just happen to be female.
And there's a lot of them that just happen to be male.
And that male who happens to be fucking brilliant and articulate and mind-blowing has almost no fucking relation to some idiot, shithead, ditch-digger asshole.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which is nothing wrong with digging ditches, folks.
Just don't dig ditches if you're an asshole.
unidentified
You're so perfectly correct.
joe rogan
I'm trying to be.
bryan callen
No, but it's also like, one of the things I noticed is you have a lot of people from different backgrounds.
You got Nigeria in this corner, you got Pakistan in that corner, you got China in that corner, you got fucking America, you got a white guy from Iowa.
When they all have to get food out to a group of people in a restaurant, or they got to figure out a way to run a business together, all that shit, nobody has time for that shit.
Everybody's kind of working toward a common goal.
joe rogan
Nobody has time if you actually have something important to do.
It's when you don't have something important to do, you start looking at, like, weird shit.
Like, I fucking hate gingers.
You know?
Gingers are all the devil.
You know, you start looking at things that makes people different.
You know, you start looking at the differences and getting annoyed with stupid shit.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think all human beings, just like your son, have a physical requirement.
There's a bond requirement that we all have with each other.
There's a love requirement that we all have with each other.
We have to get a certain amount of love.
You've got to have a certain amount of bonding and camaraderie with the people around you.
And these needs should be just like they give you a vitamin C chart.
USDA recommended daily allowance of vitamin C is this.
Recommended daily allowance of iron is that.
All that stuff is important for your body.
I think you have an equally important Requirement for your your mind.
Yes, and for just your physical being like not necessarily your body in terms of like nutrition But just love and warmth like the human touch, you know, the babies will die if you don't touch them, right?
bryan callen
Yeah, it's called failure to thrive So in hospitals when they have babies that don't have parents they have people that come around and hold the babies Jesus Christ He's not held you can feed the baby and everything if the baby's not held the baby will die Fuck.
They have to be touched by another human being.
A baby has to be.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's like water or food.
There's a fucking requirement.
And I think that this is being violated in schools when you're teaching little kids with tons of energy.
And the way they cope with that violation is give those kids medication that makes them conform.
And we just accept that.
And then people get on anti-anxiety medication, and people get on all this medication, that medication.
How many of these medications are clearly described because your life sucks?
Or prescribed, rather.
Because your life sucks.
How many of them?
Is it half?
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
Is it 30%?
Like, what number of people actually have something wrong with their brain?
And what number of people have something wrong with their brain because their life sucks?
Right.
Goddammit.
I hate going over this same subject over and over again.
Because it's just so...
bryan callen
Well, it's hard to come up with fucking answers because it all depends.
joe rogan
It's drilled into my brain.
bryan callen
Like I was talking to Andy Galpin about that.
I was like, well, is this vitamin good for you or is this supplement good for you or is this?
I was showing him stuff I take.
And he goes, it depends.
It just depends on your body.
It depends on what are you doing with your body?
What is your routine like on a daily, on a weekly basis?
What kind of stresses are you putting your body on?
Some things work, some things don't.
There's no clear-cut, single variable answer.
joe rogan
It's just so fascinating that all of our bodies have different requirements because we literally developed in different parts of the world.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
And scooted over here in a boat and started fucking each other.
And oh, look at you, allergic to cats.
All these weird things that stuck with us.
bryan callen
I do better with goat dairy.
joe rogan
Me too.
bryan callen
Much better.
Because I'm Mediterranean than I do with Holstein cow dairy.
joe rogan
Dude, my daughter, when she was little, she would throw up if she drank cow's milk, but she would drink goat's milk, and she'd have no problem with it at all.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's weird, man.
Like, human dairy.
Well, do you fuck with raw milk at all?
bryan callen
Yeah, I used to, but not anymore.
I'll fuck with raw goat milk.
I can't do raw milk.
joe rogan
Yeah, I would rather get raw goat milk because first of all, do they treat goats the way they treat cows?
I figure if you're running goats, you probably like a little bit more animal friendly.
bryan callen
I get the best goat milk in the world from the Amish.
joe rogan
They do some shit.
bryan callen
It's thick and creamy and delicious.
joe rogan
Would you imagine, let's go on a limb here and guess, would you imagine there's factory farming of goats?
Like milking, commercial, large-scale milking?
bryan callen
I'm sure there is.
There's certain ultra-pasteurized goat milk called Meyers that I get sometimes.
It's really good, but it's ultra-pasteurized.
But I'm sure that the problem is, when you talk about factory farming, here's the problem, right?
So we want consistency in our food.
So you want to buy eggs, and when you go to buy a carton of eggs, you know they're going to cost $1.50 or $2.50 or $3.50, whatever.
You know that they're going to cost a certain amount.
You don't go to the egg store and one day they're $3.50 and the next day they're $12.
And the reason for that is this, that we figured out a way to create enough eggs so that there is enough of a glut so that we can keep the price at a certain level.
The problem with if you had all these family farms, okay, which I've always been a fan as I always talk about family farms versus factory farms.
Awesome, Brian.
Never done a day of farming in my fucking life.
Don't know anything about it, but I've done my reading.
So here's Brian again with his point of view because he's read some stuff and he likes eating at Erwan and Whole Foods.
Okay.
Because I can afford it.
So I like family farming.
joe rogan
You like the idea of family farming.
bryan callen
Factory farming is bad.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
The problem is that, if you look at the way farming works, is that some family farms aren't as good as other family farms for a thousand reasons.
Not as productive, not as proficient.
So what would happen is that family would say, hey, bro, I know you're a chicken farmer too, but you're not doing it right.
Let me buy your farm.
I'll buy your farm for 15 times what it's worth right now.
You need the money.
But secretly I know I'm going to make my money back because I know how to do it better than that guy.
And then I do that.
Now I go and buy a machine that's actually faster.
And I go to the next farm.
And I say, hey bro, you're not going to compete with me on the market anyway.
And you're not as good.
Sell me your farm.
And what happens is the guy's going to go fuck you.
Not really.
joe rogan
City slicking douchebag trying to buy up my farms?
bryan callen
No, because he's not a city slicker.
He's a farmer himself.
joe rogan
The way you're talking is city slicker.
bryan callen
Is that how I'm doing it?
joe rogan
I don't like your attitude.
bryan callen
Hey, bro!
joe rogan
Hey, bro!
Come to me, my fucking farm.
bryan callen
Hey, I could give you a deal.
Come over here.
I know how to make eggs.
joe rogan
I know what you're saying.
The real problem with factory farm is the lack of moral standards.
Like when they shove these chickens into these little tiny boxes.
unidentified
Sure.
joe rogan
And the other thing is we've adapted to the ecosystem that we operate under.
In the ecosystem that we operate under, we get free food, basically.
Not free food, but free access to food.
bryan callen
It's how you feel a lot of people with protein.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it's everywhere.
The food is just coming in, and the eggs are everywhere.
So someone's got to be able to make all those eggs.
So we've sort of enveloped these areas and stacked them up with people based on the idea that it's easy to get food here.
If it was really hard to get food here in the 1800s, it'd be 1,500 people here.
Right?
It would be like the Sonora Desert.
You go through the Sonora Desert, people live there.
Some people live this little ranch here, ranch there.
Why?
Because there's no fucking food, man.
bryan callen
Or water.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's not a lot there.
It's a desert, right?
So because of the fact that we figured out how to be able to...
Feed all these millions and millions and millions of people.
Yeah, well in this one little spot like LA in particular where no one's growing shit.
Everything's shoved in there in terms of humans and they're just pumping eggs in there left and right.
They've sort of populated that place based on this ridiculous idea of the access to meat.
bryan callen
It's not a ridiculous idea.
It's actually a reality, right?
joe rogan
Right, but then people come along and they see a PETA video.
And then they go, hey, but you still want to live here.
So, well, you're going to have to go vegan then.
Well, guess what?
If you do that, they're going to have to chop down a lot of fucking trees and start growing food everywhere.
They're going to have to put it everywhere.
All these people are going to be vegan?
All 2 million in this town and 6 million in the neighborhood town and then 20 million in L.A. It's a lot of agricultural runoff.
Yeah, it's a lot of pollution.
You're going to have a lot of fucking shit going to the ground.
You're going to have a lot of combines chewing up rabbits and rats.
Ground nesting birds.
Everything's going to get buzzed up.
When you're gathering up all that grain, you're going to need to feed all those two million people that don't have access to animal protein anymore.
That's not good either.
We're fucked, is what I'm saying.
bryan callen
You're giving up that easy?
unidentified
I give up.
bryan callen
Dude, I think technology is allowing us to grow more food on less land.
joe rogan
That's true.
I think I'm very hopeful for that artificial meat, that meat that they're growing.
bryan callen
Yeah, I know.
joe rogan
Very hopeful for that, because if we could figure out a way to make it healthy to get that kind of meat, you would still have population control problems, and I think I would never stop hunting because of that.
bryan callen
But it's meat without a central nervous system.
joe rogan
It's meat without a central nervous system, and we could probably, if it's done, and it really works, I mean there's a lot of ifs there, but we could probably eliminate most of the factory farming.
The real problem would be like, what would you do with all those cows?
What do you do with the cows now?
bryan callen
They would die off, and then you wouldn't have a breeding program.
joe rogan
But you don't want them to go extinct.
bryan callen
You'd always have some cows because there'd be a whole marketplace of eating meat with the central nervous system.
Just watch.
Our meat is natural.
There's always going to be a marketplace for eating food as it, quote-unquote, occurred naturally, which, of course, Holstein cows are not natural.
joe rogan
That's the other thing I was going to get to.
The problem with letting them go, if we ever let them go, they morph.
Sort of like the same way pigs morph.
They become this thing called scrub bulls.
You ever heard of scrub bulls?
It's really popular, especially in Australia.
They're wild cattle.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Cattle that have broken through fences and lived many, many generations in the wild.
The males are super aggressive.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Very dangerous.
bryan callen
Let me see, Jamie, let me see.
Yeah, they're dangerous as fuck.
joe rogan
Enormous.
Enormous bulls.
bryan callen
In Africa, they're not afraid of lions.
They're afraid of water buffaloes.
They say climb a tree when you see a water buffalo.
joe rogan
Well, my friend Adam Greentree, who shot that buffalo above the flag.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And...
Holy shit.
That's a scrub bull?
So you see how weird that thing looks?
bryan callen
Yeah, man.
joe rogan
It looks weird because it's probably lived in the wild for many, many, many generations.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
They're huge.
Look at the size of the sack on him, dude.
Look at his sack and look at his hog.
Holy shit.
bryan callen
Dude, that thing's no joke, huh?
joe rogan
That thing is laying pipe all day, just banging all these cows.
bryan callen
Look at that muscle.
joe rogan
They're enormous wild cows and they're very aggressive.
The males in particular will fuck you up because they're not steers, right?
They're bulls.
When we're getting steak, you're getting steak most of the time from a steer.
A steer's an animal, they cut the balls off of it when it's young.
These are full ass bulls.
Look at the muscles on that thing.
bryan callen
That's a badass animal.
joe rogan
Look at the size of that!
That thing's huge!
bryan callen
Jesus.
joe rogan
Yeah, these are big fucking wild bulls.
You know, what does that weigh?
1,800 pounds or some shit?
bryan callen
I don't know, man.
joe rogan
Fuck.
So that would happen in America.
You've got to recognize that if people stopped having domestic cattle and they just let those cattle roam through, you would have a devastating impact on the ecosystem just like you have with wild pigs.
It would be similar.
You'd have wild cows.
bryan callen
I think those cows would all be euthanized or they'd be eaten.
Maybe.
But why?
It's breeding the cows.
joe rogan
But you'd have to have a certain population of them that we keep alive, what?
bryan callen
You'd need them for milk.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
You can milk them.
joe rogan
What if they come up with artificial milk?
bryan callen
Goddammit, Joe.
What the fuck?
joe rogan
You're not really supposed to drink milk, though, right?
I mean, not really.
unidentified
I don't know.
bryan callen
Cheese is good shit.
joe rogan
Is it, though?
bryan callen
I eat cheese, and I drink wine.
It doesn't make me feel good, and I'm never stopping.
How about that?
joe rogan
Wine does not make me feel good until it goes in my mouth.
bryan callen
The problem is, if I was in that makeup chair, You were drinking wine?
No, I was puffy in the morning and I looked at the makeup woman and I said, why am I so puffy in the morning?
And she goes, are you drinking at night?
I go, every night.
She goes, well, don't do that.
If you have to shoot the next day, you might not want to drink three glasses of fucking wine because I get swollen.
joe rogan
Just drink it.
bryan callen
Yeah, but I want to look good on the call.
joe rogan
Do you?
Do you want to look good?
Dairy reinvented.
Sustainable, kind, delicious.
There you go.
Animal free milk.
I bet that thing gives you rocket farts.
Like farts that if you were at a chair with wheels on it, you could fart and it would scoot you across a carpet.
I mean, how could your body want to digest that?
What's that stuff made out of?
Give me some ingredients, young Jamie.
bryan callen
God, that's weird.
joe rogan
People are weird.
bryan callen
Milk.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Almond milk.
That's my favorite.
It's not even...
There's no almond titties.
That's not almond milk.
Does someone have a joke like that?
That's someone's joke.
That just bites someone's joke.
bryan callen
I don't think so.
I'm always paranoid.
joe rogan
The whole almond milk thing is so weird.
You're just soaking nuts and then getting the dirty water.
You know what it's like?
It's like when you would eat cocoa pops.
Cuckoo for cocoa pops.
And you would have that chocolate and it would be the chocolate at the bottom.
bryan callen
No, they press them, goddammit.
joe rogan
What are you talking about?
bryan callen
They take the almonds, they soak them, they sprout them, and then they press them.
joe rogan
Right, but that dirty water is just water that the almonds were soaking around in.
bryan callen
No, because they don't do it that way, I don't think.
I think the way they do it is they crush the almonds after the almonds have been soaked, they take the skin off, and then they crush them, and then they...
joe rogan
They mix it?
bryan callen
They crush them, and then they press them, and it creates like a milky...
joe rogan
It's dirty water, bro.
No, sir!
bryan callen
I don't know what kind of fucking almond factory you're talking about, bro.
joe rogan
It's dirty almond water.
unidentified
Jamie!
joe rogan
Genetically engineered yeast?
What is this?
unidentified
What's in that?
bryan callen
Cellular agriculture?
joe rogan
What?
unidentified
Vegan milk.
It's called movie.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
The term genetically...
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
The team used genetically engineered yeast to produce six key proteins.
Oh, you goddamn motherfucker.
Six key proteins that provide the texture and plants to harvest eight fatty acids that contribute to the flavor.
Finally, they add sugars.
Minerals and water.
Easy peasy.
It's sugar.
With this straightforward recipe, the composition can be modified to leave potentially harmful components such as cholesterol and hormones out of the equation.
bryan callen
Isn't lactose...
joe rogan
Cholesterol is, by the way, the building blocks of all cells.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Isn't lactose a sugar?
joe rogan
Google that.
bryan callen
Lactase?
joe rogan
Yeah, they're putting sugar in there, man.
But they said they put sugars in it because otherwise it would taste like donkey piss.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's yeast, by the way.
Yeast is a life form.
Where do you draw the line?
Like, if you're a vegan and you're eating yeast, you are eating a living thing.
You're eating a life form that if you didn't eat it, it would replicate.
It's not a plant.
It's a life form.
bryan callen
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
If you're eating probiotics, say if you're a vegan, you're eating probiotics, you're eating little tiny life forms.
That's what you're eating.
When you have fermented that, you're letting animals grow on your food, and then you're eating your food and the animals.
That's where I get my protein.
You're eating animals.
You're eating little tiny, tiny little animals.
bryan callen
I think 9 out of 10 of your cells are not human, they're bacterially.
joe rogan
Every cell of your body is made from it, and all of your steroid hormones are synthesized from cholesterol, including all of the sex and adrenal hormones.
Well, you definitely don't want that in your body, then do you?
Why would you want something that's responsible for every fucking cell in your body?
Like, this idea!
That that diet is better for you is so goddamn cockamamie.
They're telling you that they're putting in sugar so that it makes it palatable and taking you.
You don't have to worry about that naughty cholesterol that's responsible for every fucking cell in your body and your hormones.
They're not even paying attention to science.
bryan callen
But it's a belief system.
It's not a science.
joe rogan
But here's what it is, though.
Here's where it gets weird.
I also believe, in many ways, it's a left-right thing, that the left believes in climate change science wholeheartedly 100%, but does not believe in gender science.
No, that's all bullshit.
bryan callen
If you talk about the difference between male and female, just XY chromosomes...
They'll shut you down.
joe rogan
Did you see Brett Weinstein's, his wife, Heather Hying?
bryan callen
Eric Weinstein?
joe rogan
No, his wife, Heather Hying.
She was doing a speech with James Damore.
They were talking about gender diversity, and she's just talking about the differences between males and females from a scientist's point of view.
She's a real biologist, right?
People get up and screaming.
They're shutting her down.
They're walking out.
They knocked over the sound system.
They called her a fascist.
They said he's a Nazi.
bryan callen
Awesome!
You're against science!
joe rogan
Dude, it's amazing.
It's amazing.
bryan callen
So dumb.
joe rogan
But it's this thing.
This left-right thing, too.
Right?
It's like the left wants you to 100% buy into whatever science they accept.
But also...
They don't buy into a lot of shit that just doesn't fit with whatever their ideology.
bryan callen
The left isn't a cultural purity.
The far right's into racial purity.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it was the denial of science is a new thing.
bryan callen
Yes, it is.
joe rogan
Denial of science was just not a part of the left.
The left was always...
bryan callen
Pro science.
joe rogan
Supposedly pro science.
The idea was that they were more educated, but as I looked into it, I felt it was like, that's not really true.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
But you would think that it would be more educated.
bryan callen
Is it, again, is it left and right or is it just, is it, is it, are we talking about just people who are, I feel like when we talk about these people that are knocking over sound systems and walking out and shouting down Christina Summers, I don't know if they're right or left.
I think that these are young.
Young, confused people.
joe rogan
Shitheads.
bryan callen
Shitheads.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
I think that, I really do.
I think they're, first of all, I don't think they're very smart.
I don't think that they're dealing with it.
joe rogan
That's absolutely true.
bryan callen
I think a lot of them might have some psychological problems.
I think a lot of them want to belong.
unidentified
Sure.
bryan callen
I think a lot of them just want to Be heard.
And people do clumsy shit.
When people want to feel significant, they'll do even crazier shit, like put a gun in their hand and shoot somebody.
joe rogan
Sure.
bryan callen
And usually it's the realm of young people who don't know what to do with their energy.
joe rogan
There's a lot of that.
And again, like we talked about before with Christina Hoff Summers, there's just a bunch of people that are free from their parents for the first time.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
You know, they've only been free for like 24 months.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they're stretching, they've dyed their hair green, you can't stop me, you're fascist.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
They just want to stop everything and they want attention.
But ultimately, I think that this is giving us an opportunity to really fully examine ideas.
And even though these people are shouting people down, all this noise is going on, there'll be a result.
There'll be some sort of an ebb and flow to all this that I feel very hopeful about.
Like when I look at the ebb and flow of things, I like it.
I like what's going on.
I like that there's a lot of fucking chaos, and definitely some people are taking some unnecessarily bullets, and there's definitely some ideas that are getting shut down that shouldn't be, and there's definitely some overuse of the word Nazi and fascist and all this different stuff, but it seems like overwhelmingly all this crazy energy is being pushed into at least the idea That we're improving the world.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know what I'm saying?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They want to improve the world.
bryan callen
I had a bunch of women on my podcast who were talking about, like, sexism in Hollywood.
And, of course, I was like, I don't see it that much.
I was like, I don't see it.
And these women were all really intelligent.
And I said, you know, I got to be honest, man.
As a white man now, I just feel like I – it's just – It's hard for us.
I go, you know, I gotta watch what I say now.
I gotta watch how I talk.
And one of the women goes, Katie goes, wow, I can't imagine what that's like, Brian.
What's it like to have to watch what you say and watch what your impact is like?
I have no idea.
Meanwhile, she's been dealing with that.
Every woman I know has been dealing with that for fucking ever.
And I guess I didn't take it.
I didn't look at their perspective.
joe rogan
It's hard to look at other people's perspective.
bryan callen
Fuck yeah, it is.
It's hard to look.
joe rogan
I was talking to Shob in the last podcast.
We were talking about Joey Diaz had some crazy shit about some chick's ass.
And we were all laughing about it.
And he was like, it's Joey's fucking Diaz.
He's a comedian.
I go, I totally understand.
And I'm with you.
But now, imagine if you were a regular-sized guy.
And you were dealing with like some seven-foot-tall ogre who was going online talking about how good your asshole smelled.
And you're like, oh, Jesus.
And you knew that that guy wanted to fuck you.
And then you knew that if he was alone with you, he could probably like hold you down and fuck you.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like that would be terrifying, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That'd be terrifying.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
In this case, he was talking about a female fighter who probably would fuck Joey's ass.
Probably beat Joey's ass.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
She's badass.
You know, Joey's...
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Not in the best shape.
He might clock her with a punch, though.
bryan callen
If she starts circling his jab, she's gonna pepper his face up a little bit.
joe rogan
But either way, he's being funny.
That's all it is.
But I was saying, imagine now, though, that you're a girl who hears someone talk about your asshole like that.
And we've all done it.
We've all done it.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You'd be like, oh, no.
Like, that's gotta be a terrible feeling.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
It's interesting.
I'd love to be a woman for one day to see what that's like.
joe rogan
Would you like to get fucked?
If you're a woman for one day, would you suck a dick?
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
Wouldn't.
You're like, that's where I draw the line.
Just stick it in there.
I don't even want to see where it goes.
bryan callen
I just want to see what it's like.
What does it feel like?
joe rogan
What if a guy stuck it in your ass?
Like, I could have found that out as a guy.
bryan callen
Well, first of all, what's it like to be attracted to a man?
Like, I look at you, and I know women find you attractive.
I don't find you attractive.
joe rogan
Beautiful.
bryan callen
Right?
joe rogan
I dare you.
bryan callen
Right.
But to have this big...
unidentified
Hold on.
joe rogan
Let me give you my good side.
bryan callen
That's good.
You got a strong jaw.
joe rogan
Smolder.
bryan callen
Strong jaw.
joe rogan
Smolder.
bryan callen
God.
You do smolder, dude.
joe rogan
Smoldering, bro.
bryan callen
You do smoldering.
It's hard for you, too.
I get lost in your eyes.
You have a strong jaw and soft eyes.
joe rogan
Well, imagine wanting someone to stick something in you and shoot sperm into you.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
I can't wait.
Get some in me.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Imagine that?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Jamie just threw up.
bryan callen
Yeah, like my wife was watching Sopranos and she found Tony Soprano attractive.
unidentified
Wow.
bryan callen
And I said, why?
She goes, because he's powerful and he's just bad.
And I said, well, you want to be married to him?
She goes, I don't want to be married to him.
I want to be his mistress.
And I was like, what the fuck?
joe rogan
God, I'd leave the room.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
I'd leave the room and make tea.
bryan callen
I was like, I got to gain weight.
joe rogan
I would make tea and think about my life.
bryan callen
I got to stop being so shredded.
I got to get into crime and gain some weight instead of being so good.
joe rogan
Yeah, just eat some pasta.
bryan callen
So legit and shredded.
joe rogan
Thick up.
But he died young.
That was a bummer.
He was one of those guys that when he died, I was like, oh man.
bryan callen
How old was he?
55 or 52 or some shit?
joe rogan
He was in that neighborhood.
Looked every bit of 60. Yeah, he had it all in his system, too, baby.
bryan callen
Yeah, he did, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, he had the full ride.
bryan callen
He liked to do his...
Well, I know guys who worked with him.
I know guys well who worked with him, and he just...
He could fucking tear it up, man.
joe rogan
What was the movie where he played a hitman?
What was that movie?
bryan callen
True Romance.
joe rogan
No, no, yeah, it was that one, but there was a more recent one.
bryan callen
Um...
joe rogan
God damn it.
Was it with Brad Pitt?
Wasn't there a move with him and Brad Pitt?
Yeah, Killing Me Softly.
Yes!
Was he a hitman too?
They were both hitman?
unidentified
Well, he was also in The Drop.
I don't know if you're thinking about that too.
joe rogan
No, I'm thinking of Killing Me Softly.
That's the one, right?
bryan callen
He was great in True Romance, man.
joe rogan
Fuck, he's great in everything.
He was amazing.
I mean, that Tony Sopranos character literally changed what we think of as, like, a hero in a TV show.
Because all of a sudden, the hero was a murderer.
Like, the hero, like, when he killed Christopher, like, when they had the car accident, he just fucking smothered him.
He's like, this is a good excuse to kill this guy.
He just killed him right there.
I was like, whoa!
Holy shit!
Holy shit.
bryan callen
When he closed his nose?
joe rogan
Yeah, man.
unidentified
Fuck.
joe rogan
That was fucked up.
bryan callen
Just held his nose closed.
joe rogan
That was fucked up.
Yeah.
bryan callen
And that's what it was like.
That's willing to do whatever it took.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it was also the star of the show, and you liked him.
bryan callen
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
That's what was so weird about it.
bryan callen
That was so genius.
joe rogan
There's never been a show like that.
bryan callen
He was so bad.
joe rogan
Yeah, look.
bryan callen
He was so bad.
joe rogan
And there hasn't been a show like that since then.
I mean, who else is like that much of a villain and a hero wrapped up into one?
Who else?
bryan callen
The only person that you can, maybe Breaking Bad, but you could see why he was doing it, he wasn't a bad guy.
Tony Sopranos was a bad guy.
He cheated on his wife constantly, killed people.
But what was fascinating about him is that it was the dichotomy.
It was the guy who loved his family, told his son to do his homework and not to swear at the table, and also would order a hit in the same breath.
That insane Contradiction was what you can't take your eyes off because we're bipolar apes Because you can be a very bad guy and also a really good guy and that's what that's what's fucking crazy and true about human beings Well, that's just what's brilliant though about that writing is that they figured out how to encapsulate that in fiction Where it's playing out every week and you're not you're not sick of the guy Like you wanna you want to see if he's gonna make it.
joe rogan
Is he gonna get busted?
Is he going to jail?
Yeah, are they gonna crack down on them?
Who's gonna rat him out?
bryan callen
But that show is an interesting metaphor for life.
I guess what I really worry about with our social situation today is the destruction of people and how they're never allowed to come back into the fold.
That's what I worry about.
Public shaming or whatever it might be, there are very few people that deserve eternal damnation.
And they are out there, but for the most part...
joe rogan
Roman Polanski.
bryan callen
It's a tough, you know, again, a great artist and a great filmmaker.
I'm reacting to the fact that you...
I can't justify having you come back to the country and be pardoned after that.
If what you did...
If what I've read and been told is true, I don't know how I'm supposed to forgive that.
And it's mainly because it's a child.
joe rogan
Right.
So that falls into the line of unacceptable things.
bryan callen
For me.
joe rogan
But then there's people that have been shamed like Al Franken, where you're like, really?
bryan callen
No, that was ridiculous.
joe rogan
What happened?
bryan callen
That was ridiculous.
joe rogan
What did he do?
I get that the photo was very inappropriate that he took Leanne.
bryan callen
But it cheapens.
You can't conflate him with Harvey Weinstein.
That cheapens...
joe rogan
No, you can't.
He shouldn't have done it, but he was trying to be funny.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And sometimes when people are trying to be funny, especially when people are around each other all the time, they get stupid and they cross lines and, you know...
bryan callen
Or you just don't read the signals.
You cross a line.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
In that you're trying to pick somebody up or you're putting pressure on them.
joe rogan
Don't you think that ultimately what this is going to do, though, is people are going to have to learn to be nicer to each other?
Don't you think that?
bryan callen
Or...
They're going to be really careful and afraid.
And I worry that if you have, for example, first of all, where do most people meet their wives and their girlfriends?
A lot of times it's at work.
joe rogan
A lot of times.
bryan callen
Okay?
Their husbands and their wives.
And I think that don't be surprised if corporations start to have a zero tolerance policy for any kind of romance in the office space.
It'll be like the military.
Nobody's allowed to date anybody.
And if you do, you get fired right away.
No questions asked.
joe rogan
And now think about the fact that you're eight hours a day in this place, which is most of your waking time.
bryan callen
It's not going to make anybody happy.
It's not going to make anybody happy.
Also, please add to the fact that we're also going to have all of the meetings between men and women in rooms videotaped.
HD. And in fact, men and women aren't allowed to be in the same room without a chaperone.
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
You're going to see all this shit.
joe rogan
Chaperone's a robot too.
bryan callen
Because you're talking about major money.
You're talking about major fucking, yeah, it'll be a robot with a camera.
joe rogan
The robot that says, I think you're speaking inappropriately.
bryan callen
Exactly.
So you have all these issues.
So is that going to make all of us happier?
joe rogan
No, we're going to have to quit.
bryan callen
Is it going to make us safer?
joe rogan
We're going to have to quit working in offices.
bryan callen
Are we going to be safer?
joe rogan
I'm hoping that it makes people quit offices.
So what happens is there will be no sexual harassment at the workplace because there's no workplace.
bryan callen
Fuck, I never thought of that, dude.
joe rogan
Dude, you're smart.
Way ahead.
bryan callen
You're smart.
joe rogan
No more working together.
bryan callen
No more working together!
No.
joe rogan
Places can show up and work together all day?
bryan callen
Fuck all that.
Well, by the way, men and women working together is a pretty new thing in history.
Yeah, 40 years.
Yeah, men and women have never worked together.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's very recent.
bryan callen
So this is all kind of like...
And you know, listen, when men and women get together, people are starting to fuck.
unidentified
Whoa.
bryan callen
They're just going to fuck.
joe rogan
Whitney Cummings has a funny joke about that, about working in a writing room, working on a set of a show.
She doesn't usually work at a place, and she's like, oh, this is what people are doing here.
I don't want to give away her joke.
It's very funny, but there's something that's happening when men and women get around each other.
They're jockeying for sexual position.
bryan callen
Yes, and they're attracted to each other, and they work together, and they end up liking each other.
joe rogan
Yeah, and then they get to know each other at work.
bryan callen
Yeah, and then what happens?
Okay, so there's no sex.
And there's no romance.
And there's no humor.
Humor is dangerous.
joe rogan
Humor could be a problem.
What if you say something racist and you're trying to be funny?
bryan callen
You get in trouble.
joe rogan
Don't do it.
bryan callen
And you're not racist, but you were just trying to be funny.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
Okay.
joe rogan
But you could say racist things.
I'll give you a free pass to say racist things about white people.
bryan callen
Well, that's fine.
joe rogan
I'll give you a free pass.
Do you have any racist white things you could say at work today, Tommy?
bryan callen
Yeah.
Can they be hillbillies?
joe rogan
Yes, or rednecks.
bryan callen
All right, rednecks.
joe rogan
Dirty rednecks, dirty hillbillies.
That's fine.
Shit all over those people that were forced.
Their whole family worked at a coal mine.
Yeah, ha.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Ha, you dummies.
What, you fucking your kids?
Ha ha.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
It could be racist all day for white people.
bryan callen
You can.
joe rogan
And there's some white people that do not have a fucking good deal.
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
They don't have a good deal.
bryan callen
No.
They got $400 in the bank, if that.
joe rogan
There's some incredible amount of money, or an incredible amount of people, rather, in this country that have less than that in their bank.
Yeah.
bryan callen
It's something like 50%.
joe rogan
Yeah, some study they did, people that have...
$200 or less in their bank account and it's some insane number.
Like, into the millions and millions of people.
bryan callen
Well, this is what I always say.
The people that voted for Trump, you know, a lot of them have been demonized by, you know, the left as being racist or homophobic or misogynist and stuff like that.
Or they're good people who have $400 in a bank or less, can't send their kids to baseball, etc.
And along comes Hillary Clinton, who's Obama-lite, talking about the same shit.
And they were like, I'll try anything but her.
joe rogan
Look at this.
bryan callen
There you go.
That's real.
joe rogan
Read that.
bryan callen
That's real, man.
Six in ten Americans don't have $500 in savings.
There you go.
joe rogan
Holy shit.
It's way more than I thought it was.
bryan callen
When you don't have...
Okay, now we're back to that story about scarcity.
joe rogan
Isn't that like 150 million people or something like that?
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
Yeah.
unidentified
60%.
bryan callen
It's more than, yeah.
joe rogan
What is the real number of people in America?
Is it 300 million or is it more?
Yeah, 330, I think.
So it's more than that.
So it's like 170?
170 million people?
jamie vernon
It has to be 170 and change.
bryan callen
So when you got $500 in the bank, are you thinking about gender-neutral bathrooms?
joe rogan
Always.
bryan callen
Are you thinking about how misogynist everybody is?
joe rogan
Yes, everyone's misogynist, bro.
It's disgusting.
To be a man and see other men, I'm just ashamed of my gender.
I'm ashamed.
bryan callen
All you're fucking thinking about is getting more money.
So you can send your kids to fucking anything.
joe rogan
You know what Brett Weinstein said that was really interesting about this?
bryan callen
Is it Brett or Eric?
I always think it's Eric.
joe rogan
Brett and Eric.
They're brothers.
They're brothers.
They both have been on my podcast.
unidentified
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
Eric is a mathematician who works for Peter Thiel.
bryan callen
Yeah, I like that guy.
joe rogan
And Brett is the professor from Evergreen College that got the day of absence where they made him quit because they were saying white people need to stay home.
Everybody's like, that's so racist.
bryan callen
He's also a Jew!
Yes.
joe rogan
He's super, super, super progressive, too.
bryan callen
It doesn't matter.
The Jews didn't exactly have it easy.
joe rogan
What he was saying that's interesting, he was saying that this is not just about that.
It's also about subordination.
And that you're seeing this subordination play that's taking place.
And that a lot of these men, like the way they're behaving, they're behaving to be subordinate.
They're being obedience trained.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, and they're giving into it to show that you shouldn't punish me because I'm on your side.
Because they're terrified of the women that are wielding this power now.
Yeah, but I got a theory.
And they're wielding it wildly.
bryan callen
I got a theory about that, bro.
joe rogan
What's up there, bro?
bryan callen
Well, men, historically, when you create a bunch of quiet resentment, it turns into loud violence.
Men are really good at, you got to be careful about emasculating men wholesale.
Because I always worry that it's very easy to whip them up when you got the right circumstances and the right leader.
And men like to organize and they like to fight.
And they like to fight back.
And that's what makes them feel significant when they've been emasculated.
And I don't think it's, you know, that's the expression, punishment doesn't change behavior, it just suppresses it.
joe rogan
Well, do you know that in the turn of the century, not this one, but the last, there was a giant bachelor culture In America, where men just didn't, they had just gotten through, like a lot of it was like in the 20s too, like after the Depression.
It was like the burden of having a family was just too much.
It wasn't attractive to them, and there was a bunch of men that gravitated towards pool halls.
And in the early 1900s in New York City, there was more than 900 pool halls in New York City.
bryan callen
Damn.
joe rogan
Just stop and think of that.
bryan callen
Damn.
joe rogan
More than 900 pool walls and there's all these men that would just go there and they would hang out and they were like, fuck that life.
And they just didn't want to have a part of it because it was too brutal.
It was too hard.
All this country would need for this thing to flip on its fucking ass, all they would need is legalized prostitution.
And guys would be like, wait, hold up.
Wait a minute.
Hold on.
I definitely love you.
I definitely love you.
But wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
What am I signing?
What is this?
If people found out that they could just get sex anytime they wanted if they had a hundred dollars, like if you have a hundred dollars, you can get sex.
You can get sex with a pretty girl and it's clean and you don't have to worry about it.
People would be outraged.
Like, well, how am I going to have power over this man if I can't control his sex?
I could only, I only have him locked, otherwise we're just friends.
See, if we're just friends, I can't have half his money, I can't tell him what to do, I can't tell him when to be home.
bryan callen
But let me ask you a question.
joe rogan
We have to live together, and I have to control his sex.
If we live together and then I control his sex, then I have all this power.
But if they were in a situation where legalized prostitution was just like grocery stores, or it was just everywhere, what would the power, first of all, the amount of hoes would probably be the same.
bryan callen
They just be a lot richer?
joe rogan
Now they're just doing it like under the table.
It's hard to get away with it.
They can get raided.
There's sneakiness.
There's all this, you know, they have gold diggers instead of hoes.
Some girls would just go straight into hoeing.
bryan callen
Yeah, but here's my question.
Do you think men are more interested in sex or admiration?
joe rogan
There's both.
But they get fake admiration from the hoes.
I say hoes with all due respect.
bryan callen
They know it's fake, though.
I think men want to be admired more than anything else.
joe rogan
They do.
bryan callen
They want their dick to be the biggest, even if it's a mushroom cap.
Just make all the noise, please, and let me know I'm King Kong.
And you stick to the woman.
A lot of times you'll stick to that one woman.
Who you know has got your back no matter what.
joe rogan
Sure, but you're talking about a guy who finds that.
There's a lot of people out there that don't find that.
For them, legalize prostitution right next to Bolero.
Hop on in.
Get your dick sucked.
Right next to Panera Bread.
bryan callen
Sandwich and a dick sucked.
joe rogan
Get a grilled cheese and tomato soup.
Get your dick sucked.
It would change what people need.
Why are you dating?
Are you dating specifically for sex?
Or are you dating because you want companionship?
Are you too consumed with work?
And are you busy all day and you just like to hang out with your friends, but you get horny?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because we have a solution for you.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And if that was the case, I'm not saying that relationships wouldn't be the same.
What I'm saying is there's a lot of relationships that wouldn't be the same.
bryan callen
Dude, I think you're onto something.
My buddy, you know Stevie Blue Eyes.
Sure.
He would have stayed in jail if he had access to women because he was hanging out with all his friends.
He was like, it was the fucking best.
That's hilarious.
He goes, all we do is fuck around, laugh all day, lift weights.
The food kind of sucks, but you're all laughing and you're all in a shitty situation.
Everybody gets along.
He goes, if I had girls, if I had access to women, I would not have left.
joe rogan
That's hilarious.
bryan callen
This is in Fort Dix, too.
The biggest federal penitentiary in the...
joe rogan
I'm obviously torn on prostitution because I don't want anybody that I know's kids or my kids to go into prostitution.
But I also don't think anybody should tell people that something that's completely legal to do for free is illegal to charge money for.
Like, there was some gay male escort that came out today.
I put it on my Twitter about, like, just let these fucking people have sex.
Like, some gay male escort was talking about the priests at the Vatican.
And he's like, naming names.
I fucked that guy.
I fucked him.
I fucked him.
He wants to suck my dick.
I fucked him.
And, you know, it was talking about them being hypocritical.
Like, yeah, they're definitely hypocritical.
Let these fucking people have sex.
This is crazy.
Like, your system doesn't work.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
If they just let them have sex and let them have male escorts, just leave them alone.
Satan, that's fine.
Just as long as you believe in Jesus still, yeah.
It's like dick.
I believe in Jesus, but I love dick.
Okay, well, Jesus must have put that love for dick in you.
Jesus put that love for dick in your heart.
bryan callen
Well, that is the truth.
joe rogan
Sure.
bryan callen
Right?
joe rogan
It must have.
bryan callen
I mean, the truth is...
It's a complicated thing, right?
Because then where do you...
So, like...
We had these urges, and a lot of them are not very productive, right?
So you want to have sex with everybody you can or whatever it might be, but you know that's not viable because there are just certain trade-offs to that.
joe rogan
Well, you know, the viable alternative is ex machina.
You have these AI robot fuck dolls that live in your house.
But the problem is they probably get too smart and then they kill your real wife.
bryan callen
The algorithm?
joe rogan
Yeah, and they figure out a way to convert your sperm into babies.
They've figured out a way to create an actual digital womb.
bryan callen
That's a good idea for a movie, dude.
joe rogan
Well, it's Ex Machina, that movie.
Did you see that?
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
It's one of my all-time favorite movies.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, one of my top 20 all-time favorite movies.
bryan callen
I'm obsessed with Black Mirror.
joe rogan
It's basically an hour and 45 minute Black Mirror.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Ex Machina is amazing.
Yeah, I do love Black Mirror.
It's awesome.
But Ex Machina is actually even more intense.
It's a really well-done movie about AI. And it has very few cut-the-shit scenes.
When you're watching it, you're like, whoa.
bryan callen
Like, all of this could be possible?
joe rogan
100%, yeah.
Yeah, it's really good.
I don't want to tell you any more.
It's really good.
bryan callen
I'll watch it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's the shit.
And it's also...
Yeah, that would be the move, though.
bryan callen
What do you think of AI? I mean...
joe rogan
It's terrified.
It's going to eat us.
bryan callen
You think?
joe rogan
What do I think?
How about this?
Boston Dynamic makes those fucking robots that you can't kick over.
Do you know those things?
Yeah.
And they are funded by DARPA. And DARPA makes a robot called the Eater Robot.
E-A-T-R Robot.
And the Eater Robot...
Literally eats biological material.
I'll spell that out for you.
It's fucking people.
It eats dead people on the battlefield to fuel itself.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
It is an actual working concept of a fucking robot that eats dead people for fuel.
Yes.
E-A-T-O. Well, it can eat hay and maybe sticks and rabbits.
Maybe it'll eat a rabbit.
It's going to eat people, you fuck...
bryan callen
Wait, wait, wait.
joe rogan
Autonomous Tactical Robot Eater Project.
It's from a DARPA. What's DARPA? What are you highlighting there?
bryan callen
What's DARPA? That's in a video.
joe rogan
Oh, it's a video.
I'm looking at the cursor doing that.
I'm like, why are you highlighting DARPA? What's DARPA? DARPA is...
I forget the...
something research.
It's all military shit.
DARPA is...
You hear a robot?
unidentified
Yes.
bryan callen
Come on, man.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a real thing.
Yeah, it's a real thing that the same people that are making those Boston Dynamic robots...
You know, did you see the one recently that it bounces?
It pulls up to the side of a wall and then bounces over the wall like 13 feet in the air.
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
Lands on top of a building.
It could land on the roof of a building.
unidentified
Come on, man.
joe rogan
From the bottom and hop all the way up to the roof.
bryan callen
Is there a video of that shit?
joe rogan
Second story building.
Two story building.
It leaps literally from the ground all the way to the top.
bryan callen
This shit is so scary.
joe rogan
It's all on wheels.
So it writes itself perfectly every time.
bryan callen
That's so fucking scary.
joe rogan
Dude, it's so bananas.
And all this stuff is happening while people are paying attention to Kim Kardashian's ass.
Even Jamie.
Jamie's like, oh, Kim Kardashian called out the Yeezy Mafia today.
bryan callen
Dude, you like your Kim Kardashian, huh?
joe rogan
He loves celebrity gossip.
bryan callen
I did an episode of How I Met Your Mother, and she was there, and her dressing room was right next to mine, and she was on set.
And she didn't look like what I thought she was.
She didn't have any makeup.
She's pretty and all, but I didn't even know that it was her.
I was like, I think that's Kim Kardashian.
I'm not sure.
joe rogan
She's a person.
We've made a bizarre choice to spend a tremendous amount of time thinking about a person that really doesn't do a thing.
They just live.
That's what's weird.
They've tapped into this extreme desire for gossip in some weird, crazy way where they do all these wacky things in their life where you can't take your eyes off of them and they always have something new going on.
But they don't do anything.
So now she got wise, though, and married a guy who does a thing.
She married Kanye West, right?
He's a giant cultural thing.
So then now it becomes more legit.
Now the whole empire is really solidified.
They've added some fucking sand to the cement.
bryan callen
It's ambition, right?
It's ambition.
It's just like this strange...
joe rogan
It's definitely that.
There's ambition, but they've figured out how to juke the system.
They've figured out how to shuck and jive and make their way in with no singing, no dancing, no art, no comedy.
bryan callen
You have lots of money.
I think I have money.
Do you do anything different than you did besides not worry so much about what a car's going to cost?
What do you do that's luxurious?
joe rogan
I don't really do much, man.
This is how I dress.
I dress normal.
I work.
I work out.
I go running.
bryan callen
Is there any vice you like?
unidentified
I like bow hunting.
bryan callen
You like bow hunting?
joe rogan
It's not a vice, though.
That's where I get my meat.
bryan callen
No, but this is what I mean.
Do you stand up?
Right.
I have my stand-up.
I like to box.
The things I do don't take that much money.
They take a lot of time and energy.
joe rogan
I think if you wanted to travel and you wanted to go on some big-time adventures, which I have decided I'm really interested in doing some adventures some year, especially hunting adventures.
I'd like to go to New Zealand.
I'd like to go to Alaska.
bryan callen
My buddy's got a farm in New Zealand.
We should go to his farm in New Zealand.
joe rogan
I would love to.
I'd love to go.
I want to bow hunt in Alaska in the Yukon.
bryan callen
He kills wild goats on his property.
joe rogan
They're wild, huh?
unidentified
Yes.
bryan callen
What kind of goats?
I don't know, but they're wild.
He's got...
joe rogan
New Zealand's insane.
New Zealand is really like an experimentation in invasive species because everything is invasive.
They have red stag that are from Europe and they have all these axis deer.
bryan callen
Huge red stag.
joe rogan
Actually, I don't know if they have axis deer.
bryan callen
He's got huge red stag on his property they shoot, so they're insane.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They have some immense animals there.
And they don't have any predators.
So they have these crazy seasons where you can just shoot things all the time.
Oh, there's a wild goat.
Look at the cool horns on that thing, man.
bryan callen
Yeah, that's what he shoots.
joe rogan
Fuck, that's amazing.
Look at that thing.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
It's like the ripples of a jellyfish when it's in the water.
bryan callen
If you want to go, we can go.
joe rogan
Look at the fucking horns on that thing.
That's a New Zealand wild goat, huh?
Wow, those...
Those horns are beautiful.
Look at the coat on that thing, too.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
What an amazing animal.
bryan callen
I know.
They're smart.
joe rogan
I was watching a thing online about these guys that were hunting for bighorn sheep, you know, and they were in the Rocky Mountains, hunting for Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep with a bow and arrow.
And I was looking at these things, and I'm like, what a crazy animal.
Remember we saw them when we were in Montana, and Ranella was pointing out the size of their balls?
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
Because they have, like, church bell balls.
bryan callen
Well, dude, they're so athletic, too.
joe rogan
They kick each other in the balls.
bryan callen
They do?
joe rogan
They kick each other in the balls when they're like jockeying for attention.
They headbutt each other, which is why they have those antlers in the first place.
And then they walk up behind each other and lift their feet up and kick each other in the balls.
bryan callen
Damn, I didn't see that.
joe rogan
Constantly.
bryan callen
They crash into each other, though.
joe rogan
It's incredible.
bryan callen
And they're so athletic.
I was up in Big Whiskey Mountain in Wyoming, me and my buddy hiking.
And he just goes, he just points me.
And there were just seven of them, a row of them.
And they are fucking huge.
Huge.
joe rogan
300 pounds.
bryan callen
Yeah, giant animals.
joe rogan
Yeah, look at these fuckers.
bryan callen
Look at this.
joe rogan
What a cool animal, too.
Like, when you look at the...
bryan callen
The thing's got some balls on them.
joe rogan
The horns in their head.
Boom!
unidentified
Whoa.
joe rogan
And look at the sack once they collide.
Look at his sack on the right.
Just swinging.
bryan callen
How crazy that they don't have any head trauma.
joe rogan
Well, they're probably dumb as fuck.
I mean, seriously, what do they have to do?
I smell mountain lion, run.
bryan callen
They're not doing algorithms.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, their food is right in front of their fucking stupid face all the time.
bryan callen
Look at that.
joe rogan
Here it goes.
And they snap into it, too.
It's not like they're running with their head down.
They're putting all this extra emphasis in.
They're trying to make it uncomfortable for the other dude.
bryan callen
The crazy thing is when you see two bucks and their horns get tied up together.
joe rogan
That's crazy, but what's crazy about this is that they pause afterwards, so they must get their bell rung.
I would imagine, right?
But look, they just stand there and they back up.
Like, no one is like, bitch, I'll hit you again, and then I'll hit you again.
bryan callen
You're right.
joe rogan
Right.
Watch what they do.
bryan callen
They get dazed.
joe rogan
It must be.
Watch this.
unidentified
Boom!
joe rogan
And then they're both like, what is happening here?
Oh, Jesus.
They turn to sideways.
Almost like they want to ignore the fact that the guy's there.
Wow.
Look at the sky!
Dude, I wonder if they see cool shit.
Like, look, oh, I see angels.
bryan callen
You see anything?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Why do I see butterflies?
bryan callen
They hallucinate.
joe rogan
Look, fairies.
bryan callen
See the fairies?
His feet came up off the ground.
joe rogan
Dude, they hit each other so hard, but they just stop.
Look, they hit each other and then they just chill.
How weird is that?
bryan callen
It's like they're getting off on it.
joe rogan
It's like they're getting some kind of a high.
I wonder if anybody's ever observed, like, I wonder if there'd be a way to measure, like, certain neurotransmitters on them.
Like, in action.
Like, let them collide with each other and then figure out, like, what happens to the brain.
Like, is there some burst of happiness that comes out of that?
bryan callen
Well, didn't they talk about this in Concussion?
Where they don't suffer from brain trauma or CTE, actually?
They don't get, you'd think that they would, but male, the male rams don't have signs of CTE. Yeah, their brain is designed different than ours.
joe rogan
Same as a woodpecker.
Woodpecker's brain, they're fucking...
They were in my yard.
bryan callen
Is it their brain or the physiology of their skull?
joe rogan
Well, it's both.
But the way their brain is attached to the inside of the skull is different.
Our brain is like barely attached.
Our brain is like someone who's not worried about anything bad going wrong.
bryan callen
Well, it's all gelatinous.
Like our spinal cord goes up to our brain and it's all one big sort of gelatinous mass, right?
joe rogan
Yes.
Well, we're just not sturdy.
No.
We're just so weak in comparison to other animals.
You know what it's like?
You remember when you shot your deer in Montana and we were cleaning it and dressing it and we're pulling on the skin.
You're grabbing that, which a lot of people turn into jackets and pants and shit.
That's what the Native Americans used to make clothes out of.
And you're grabbing that hide and you're thinking, oh, this is so thick.
Like, this shit is strong.
And you're pulling on it.
And then grab your bitch-ass skin.
I know.
We have toilet paper skin.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
We got shitty skin.
unidentified
So nothing.
bryan callen
You can nick it and it's a problem.
You gotta put a bandaid on it.
joe rogan
While we were cleaning that animal, when you were doing the ravine comer, I remember I sliced my finger open, just touched my finger with the blade and my finger squirting all over the place.
Meanwhile, I gotta really dig in to get to this meat.
I gotta really cut through all this skin.
It's so hard.
bryan callen
Yeah.
And then you get an infection.
Like, if you get a blister on your foot and you're in the wilderness, you know...
joe rogan
Ooh, you're fucked.
Yeah!
You're fucked.
You know, a lot of guys get...
You can die.
Because they wear new boots.
They go, oh, I got these new boots.
I'm going hiking.
unidentified
This is awesome.
joe rogan
And then your feet just get fucked up.
bryan callen
But also, what bitches we are in the cold, too.
We can't handle the cold.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
I got some negative messages.
I remember...
On Twitter, when the episode of Meat Eater came out, when you and I were in Montana, and I was like, don't plan on being comfortable, it's in the cold.
unidentified
Oh, you fucking pussies!
joe rogan
This is poor woodsmanship.
bryan callen
Like, hey, poor woodsmanship?
Hey, I'm not a good woodsman, I'm a Pussy.
joe rogan
It's nine degrees outside.
You just want me to suck it up?
Oh, does that make you feel better if I just suck it up?
How about if I say it sucks and then I suck it up?
bryan callen
Hunting.
I remember just hearing you going, camping blows.
I can hear you shaking.
I can hear you shivering in the morning.
I can hear, you know, putting on your socks and you go, Almost to yourself, camping blows.
joe rogan
But do you know what doesn't blow?
When the camping's over.
bryan callen
It's the best.
joe rogan
Like, you have the best showers ever.
bryan callen
We have the greatest time, too, though.
joe rogan
It's fun.
bryan callen
It's all so much fun.
Because we make each other laugh so hard.
joe rogan
I think Rinella wants to go to Mexico with us.
bryan callen
I want to go!
joe rogan
Okay, let's do it.
bryan callen
Well, you guys don't invite me anymore.
I want to come.
joe rogan
I told them.
I told them the next one counts on us to come.
Because we did one where we struck out, we went bow hunting for deer in Arizona last, not Arizona, excuse me, Nevada last, I think it was August.
bryan callen
Nothing?
joe rogan
Struck out.
bryan callen
Was it cold or was it super hot?
Very hot.
joe rogan
Very hot.
100 degrees.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
So hot that if you shot an animal, there's a real concern about getting the meat back to camp as quickly as possible.
bryan callen
Before it rots?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's fucking hot.
bryan callen
TJ Dillashaw told me he was up in the mountains of Nevada and it was super cold.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
bryan callen
That was like...
I don't know what time he was.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was probably in a different season and maybe for elk.
bryan callen
Yeah, I think he was looking for deer.
joe rogan
Well, there's always a bunch of seasons too, right?
There's like early archery, which is what we were doing, which is where the animals are in velvet.
So they've just finished growing their horns and they're starting to scrape the velvet, which is the outer skin, off of the bone.
I didn't even know until really recently that antlers are literally bone antlers.
And an elk's antler, like those antlers right there, that's the fastest growing bone in the wild kingdom.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
The fastest growing thing in nature.
Those antlers fall off every year.
Really?
Yep, every year.
They weigh 30 pounds.
bryan callen
Wow.
unidentified
Holy shit.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're like 15 pounds each side of bone and it grows in a couple of months.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
Yep.
That's nuts.
Yeah.
bryan callen
I didn't know that.
joe rogan
See if you can find a video.
bryan callen
Did you see any...
joe rogan
The growth of elk antlers.
bryan callen
When you were in Nevada, like in that 100 degree heat, did you see any other animals out there?
joe rogan
Yeah, someone saw an elk.
We saw a lot of jackrabbits and stuff like that.
They have a lot of rabbits.
You have to be really careful with the rabbits, too.
If you kill one and skin one, they have little mites and shit that will give you infections that you can die from.
What?
Legitimately.
See, antlers.
While antlers are growing, they're covered in fuzzy skin called velvet.
Yeah, that's what they look like when they're in velvet.
bryan callen
Is that what you...
joe rogan
So look at that.
Look how quick it goes.
bryan callen
Doesn't that have human growth hormone in it?
joe rogan
Yes, yes.
The velvet from the antlers, a lot of football players were taking it because it actually lets you grow growth hormone.
So look, you can see it April 8th, then April 15th.
And then April 22nd.
Look how quick that shit's growing.
That's crazy.
That's fucking nuts.
Seven days later, it's longer.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
Look at that, May 6th.
It's fucking gigantic now.
That's nuts.
Look at that, May 13th, May 20th, a week later.
bryan callen
It's like a mushroom.
joe rogan
A week later.
bryan callen
It grows as fast as a fucking mushroom.
joe rogan
Dude, that is crazy.
A week later after that.
bryan callen
And it's all...
That's nuts.
joe rogan
Nuts.
That is nuts.
July 1st.
Look at that.
Just a couple of months.
July 8th.
July 15th.
Look at the size of that thing.
Okay.
This must be a commercial elk farm that we're looking at because these elk are so big.
Like their antlers are so big.
That seems like, it seems like they're feeding in something.
jamie vernon
It's gonna be hard to get that many pictures of the same one, too.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That must be a commercial.
Let me pause right there.
Pause right there.
Yeah, it is.
If you saw that elk in the wild, you would shit your fucking pants.
That would be the bull of all bulls.
bryan callen
Why, because if it's antlers?
joe rogan
Look at the size of the antlers on that thing.
That thing has like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine points on one side.
And one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.
It's a nine by nine.
bryan callen
That's crazy.
Do the females not have antlers?
joe rogan
No, they don't have antlers.
But every now and then a deer female has antlers.
Yeah, some freak bitch just likes to fight.
Some bull dyke sort of dyke-y doe just grows some antlers.
Yeah, some guy shot one recently.
bryan callen
Dyke-y doe.
joe rogan
And they were all confused.
It was white.
It was a female, rather, and it had antlers.
And they're like, what is this?
Yeah, but that shit grows every year.
People go shed hunting.
bryan callen
What was we hunting in Mexico?
joe rogan
I don't know.
Maybe deer.
There's a lot of deer in Mexico.
Sonora.
Sonora has a lot of mule deer.
bryan callen
Isn't it kind of dangerous, though?
joe rogan
Don't be scared, homie.com.
They're not going to fuck with you.
What you got to worry about is...
I mean, if you would go to their towns and cause problems, they're busy making drug money.
They don't have time to go looking for some asshole shooting a deer.
Yeah, you're right.
And there's ranches that you go to out there where they're hunting ranches.
That's why people go there in the first place.
And that would probably be where you park your stuff and you drive in from Arizona.
bryan callen
I went to Cancun and one of the guys was there, a wealthy dude guy, and I said, what about the cartels?
He goes, they own!
A lot of these resorts, dude, you're money for them.
Don't worry about the cartels.
Then I talked to a guy who had this amazing restaurant, and I said, what about the cartels?
And he said, they come here.
And I said, what do you mean?
He goes, they'll show up in a bunch of SUVs, they come, they tip, they say thanks.
I go, they don't like extort money?
No.
The only time that happens is if you're selling drugs out of your restaurant.
And if you're selling drugs out of your restaurant, they want a piece.
Otherwise, you're fine.
It's all ingrained.
It's all like a whole...
joe rogan
It's a business.
bryan callen
Yeah, it's a business.
joe rogan
Yeah, I was in Punta Mita, and we took these golf carts.
They let us take these golf carts to town.
We're staying at this resort, and you leave the resort.
And when you leave the resort, there is a stark contrast.
bryan callen
Yes, sir.
joe rogan
From safety and beautifully manicured lawns and landscaped grounds to we get out, we are maybe 100, 200 yards from the outside, and we see a military base.
It's a very small military base with two guys with bulletproof vests and helmets on, holding, I don't know what kind of fucking high-powered rifle, are behind a metal plate.
That's attached to the top of a jeep.
So they're literally in, like, riot, war-type vehicles.
bryan callen
Ready to go, yeah.
joe rogan
Fully armed, ready to go.
So if anything went wrong, right over there, they drive in.
So they're protecting this resort.
bryan callen
Oh, they're protecting the resort?
joe rogan
That's what it's for.
They're there to protect all these wealthy people from, you know, Europe and America and wherever that fly in to stay at this resort.
And I was like, whoa, this is crazy.
Because it makes sense.
I mean, why else would that be there?
It's there and they're like waiting outside the gate.
bryan callen
There's a great deal to be said about having institutions you can trust, like courts that can enforce contracts that are not corruptible.
So in this country, if you buy a house, that piece of paper actually means something.
Most countries, not so much.
It's your private property, but somebody with a bigger gun can come and take it from you.
joe rogan
Yeah, they can decide you did something wrong and they have to take it.
bryan callen
Yeah, and that is the fundamental difference between our country still and a lot of other countries, including Mexico and some places.
joe rogan
Well, that's what happened to that McAfee guy.
Where was it that he was at?
Was it Costa Rica?
Where was he?
No, somewhere else.
Remember that guy, the McAfee guy that came up with that virus software and then he went bananas and moved to some other country?
Some tropical country.
What happened to him?
Well, they accused him of murder.
What is it?
Police.
Belize.
They accused him of murder and he had to flee the country and they took his land.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he was like, hey, they're railroaded me.
I gotta get the fuck out of here.
We actually talked to him on the podcast when he was on the lam.
He called me up on the phone.
bryan callen
Wow.
joe rogan
And I did an interview with him on the lam.
bryan callen
But that's what happens.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was a...
I mean, I guess he's living in America now, but he's like a bona fide wild man.
Like, he denied these reports, but there's a forum where someone was taking photos of meth that they were making and explaining how they're re-engineering meth and making it better.
And they were saying that it was him.
bryan callen
Damn.
joe rogan
That he was the one who was doing that.
So he's in Belize, got some fucking lab in his backyard.
He denied the whole thing.
So I don't know if it's true or not true.
I think he said he was trolling.
I'm like, okay.
bryan callen
Maybe.
joe rogan
Right?
Remember that, Jamie?
unidentified
Sort of.
joe rogan
It was something connected to like bath salts.
Like he figured out how to re-engineer bath salts and make them better.
bryan callen
Jesus.
You know what's going to happen if you take...
Nobody had a lot of problems, then took some meth, and they got better.
joe rogan
Here's my question, though.
How many people are doing meth right, and we just don't hear about it?
Yeah, meth labs and dead dogs.
So the founder of McAfee Antivirus went on the run in Belize.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Meth.
Meth labs.
And what was it about the dogs?
What did it say?
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
What scroll back?
And dead dogs.
Oh, okay.
Dead dogs.
I don't know the story.
He says he was trolling about the meth labs, but it's entirely possible that dude was just partying his ass off in Belize.
Somebody wind up accusing somebody of murder, and I think they wanted to question him, and he's like, fuck you.
Nah.
I think I'm gonna move back to America.
I tried this out.
It's not fun, guys.
bryan callen
It ain't happening.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'll just blog about you for a couple of years.
bryan callen
What's he do for money?
I don't know.
He's got a lot of money, probably.
joe rogan
Oh, he started McAfee antivirus.
I'm sure he's got millions of dollars.
unidentified
What the fuck, man?
joe rogan
They took a lot of his cash, though.
bryan callen
That's a huge problem.
That's the problem with Russia and a lot of other countries.
When, like, the ruling elite has the power to do whatever they want, including kill you.
Just take your house.
This double agent in England today, London, he and his daughter are gravely ill and poisoned.
joe rogan
Yeah, they were secret agent against Russia, right?
bryan callen
Yeah, double agents, I guess.
joe rogan
Don't do that.
bryan callen
Well, you're gonna die.
joe rogan
Yeah, that seems like a bad job.
Secret agent against Russia.
bryan callen
That's a risky fucking job.
joe rogan
Did you see Icarus?
Have you seen that?
bryan callen
Yes, I have.
joe rogan
Your boy won an Oscar for that, didn't he?
bryan callen
Yes, he did.
joe rogan
And well deserved.
Well deserved.
bryan callen
Do we know where that Russian scientist is?
I love that guy.
joe rogan
That guy is under protection.
He is right now under protective custody somewhere.
bryan callen
He's gotta be.
joe rogan
Where they're worried about him being...
Assassinated.
They took, not only did they take all of his money, they took away his wife's house.
They did in Russia?
They're trying to turn his family homeless.
I think they're trying to pressure him into going back to Russia and giving himself up by making his family essentially homeless.
bryan callen
That's so awful.
joe rogan
They're putting tremendous pressure on him.
bryan callen
So they can't get his wife out or anything?
joe rogan
Gregory, what is his last name?
Gagero?
bryan callen
He doesn't deserve that, man.
But I would have gotten my wife out.
joe rogan
He couldn't, apparently.
She didn't want to listen.
He was already out of the country, and she didn't want to listen to him.
And she didn't understand.
They were listening to his phone calls and his emails, and he didn't have a way of expressing to her.
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
Like, hey, you've got to get the fuck out now.
Like, if he did that, they would have just come and scooped her up.
There you go.
bryan callen
No due process.
joe rogan
Rodchenov.
Gregory Rodchenov, the head of the Russian Anti-Doping Laboratory.
It's an amazing documentary, folks, if you haven't seen it.
It's on Netflix.
bryan callen
Man.
joe rogan
But it just shows you what it could be like in other countries.
They don't play by the rules.
There's no rules.
He who has the power makes the rules.
bryan callen
That's right.
You're dealing with mafia, basically.
Organized badasses.
joe rogan
Yeah, and there's a lot of people that love it to be like that here.
Oh, they would love it.
bryan callen
I know.
And they don't, because they have no idea of what history is about.
Here's the thing.
If you want to use, if you want to be, if you don't want to believe in things like due process, integrity of courts and all those things, if you don't want to believe that you should have a right to criticize your government, I know it works for you right now because the person in power is on your side, but you're next.
You're next as soon as the tables flip, and the tables always flip.
So you are historically ignorant.
There is a reason that the Founding Fathers thought through these things.
They came from tyranny.
And the genius of the Founding Fathers was those checks and balances and representative government.
And it's such a radical idea that our leaders Basically, they serve at our whim.
Now, that's all changing.
Lawrence Lessig, you need to have on the podcast, who wrote Republic Lost.
I talk about him all the time.
Lawrence Lessig will tell you right now.
He's at Harvard University.
He's a law professor.
And he said, your government does not represent you.
Of the gerrymandered districts, all these districts are gerrymandered.
You know what that means?
So the congressional districts are essentially, they're redrawn so that they favor one party or another.
Do you understand?
joe rogan
In terms of demographics?
Sure.
bryan callen
So a million Republicans in Massachusetts may as well not vote.
They're never going to win.
They're just not represented.
Because...
The districts are so gerrymandered that it's always going to be typically a Democrat.
That's one example, okay?
Of the 435 seats in Congress, The ones that aren't gerrymandered, the ones where your vote actually counts, there are about 35 of those seats.
About 35 of the 435. I think that's the number.
Just keep this in mind, too.
Every fucking congressman that you know spends 30 to 70 percent of his or her time calling for money, raising funds.
30%?
30 to 70% of their time.
joe rogan
That's insane.
bryan callen
And they do it, and this has been well documented, in Republic Lost, in so damn much money.
There are some very good books that I've read on this.
I've had Lessig on my podcast twice.
You've got to have him on because he's fucking important.
I'd be happy to.
He's so important to listen to.
How do you spell his name?
Lawrence and then Lessig.
S-L-E-S-S-I-G. And he does an amazing job.
He's got a great TED talk.
You can listen to it for 20 minutes.
That's all it is.
And just listen to him talk about how democracy doesn't work the way it does with money and politics now.
And he talks about campaign.
When you even say campaign finance reform, everybody zones out.
Those words are exhausting.
Like, oh, Jesus.
But he opens the book with this fucking amazing Thoreau quote.
And he talks about if you want to talk about the problems in this country, in our democracy.
And this Thoreau quote is, I see men everywhere hacking at the branches of evil while none are striking at the root.
It's a great fucking quote, right?
joe rogan
Damn, Thoreau had some good ones.
bryan callen
Yes, he had some good ones because that and my other favorite Mark Twain quote, loyalty to my country, always to my government, only when it deserves it.
It's two really cool quotes, but...
You know, he does a really good job of saying that 35 seats really matter.
And those are the only ones that matter.
Those are the only districts worth voting, you know, where it makes sense to vote, where if you're a Republican or a Democrat, where that's a contested seat.
But then...
Those congressional candidates, or those ones who are in the seats already, they have to raise money to stay in power.
So they're talking to their donors, and their fundraisers are the ones that are telling them what kind of issues they better hit on if they want the big donors.
joe rogan
That's so crazy.
What a goofy system.
bryan callen
It's a crazy system.
joe rogan
You know what's interesting though?
The system has affected the place where we came from.
Like, what if the United States didn't take off from Europe?
What if we didn't bail and start this thing up over here?
What would it be like over there?
Because what it was like over there was a bunch of kings and queens and shit.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
And it had been like that forever.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
And now, now it's kind of they have a queen, but it's bullshit.
You know, there's one prince who's getting married that, you know, people seem to give a fuck about.
I don't get it.
bryan callen
You know, George Washington said, right, when they wanted to make him king, he said, I didn't fight this revolutionary war to become George II. And George, George, King George was the king over there.
And when King George found out that George Washington refused the kingship, And said, no, I'm a president and I will serve a term and, you know, I'll go back to Monticello or wherever he's from.
Was that Jefferson or whatever?
Either way, he said, or Mount Vernon, he said, King George said, if he said that, he's the greatest man to ever live.
In fact, he rejected power.
But that's what George Washington said.
I fought.
I fought against monarchy.
joe rogan
What's amazing is that it's affected there.
Like, they go, oh, this works better.
Because it does.
But how did it set in over there?
That's what's fascinating.
Like, how did it eventually...
Like, they gave up power to sort of emulate the West.
bryan callen
Well, the British always had a tradition of this.
So, way before the Revolutionary War, way before the American Experiment, there was always...
In fact, I think it started with Henry VIII.
There was always a contentious debate about how much power the king should have versus parliament, how much power the king should have versus the landed gentry versus the aristocracy.
It was always that issue.
joe rogan
But it's kind of hilarious that the king doesn't have to show any merit.
Like, they didn't rise through the ranks by hacking their way through a river of enemy.
They didn't just figure out a way to bring prosperity to the land and some people voted them as king.
bryan callen
Well, actually, it's actually fascinating that this small island of pale people basically controlled almost the entire world.
And one of the things that's given credit is that the British had this sort of religious idea almost.
It was called the Great Chain of Being.
And the Great Chain of Being was you have God at the top.
King is second place, then you have the aristocracy, then you have the nobility, the landed gentry, and then the serfs.
And for you to aspire out of your place, your God-given place, for you to say, I may be an aristocrat or a noble or a landed gentry, but someday I'm going to be the king, that would be considered fucking heresy.
That would be the equivalent of you saying, I think white people are better than black people today.
I mean, you just didn't do it.
joe rogan
Someone's going to take that and use it as a quote.
bryan callen
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
You're going to get in trouble now.
I know.
bryan callen
I know they're going to isolate.
joe rogan
You can't even say that.
You have to pause in between each one and say other words.
bryan callen
Yeah, God.
joe rogan
You have to speak in code.
unidentified
No!
bryan callen
You're right.
I worry about that stuff.
But you would not...
Yeah, you couldn't do it.
But that created an incredible order.
And it created a very, very good system to get shit done.
When people all were in their place doing their duty, it was very easy to organize.
joe rogan
Right.
But not to innovate.
Right.
Not to take big giant changes like America has done.
bryan callen
No, but the Brits were great innovators because they...
joe rogan
They did fine.
But what I'm saying is they don't have the freedom that they had over here.
If you don't have a caste system, you have the ability to rise from the bottom to the top.
Now we're here.
unidentified
That's right.
joe rogan
That is what is most attractive about America.
bryan callen
Yes, potential.
joe rogan
Potential.
bryan callen
That's why we haven't had revolutions.
That's why we don't have the poor confiscating the wealth of the rich because the poor have to believe they're going to be rich.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
That's a huge, that's a huge issue now.
joe rogan
I have a lot of friends who come over from England, man, and they just talk about that, like how you could actually do something here and people are supportive.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They don't shoot you down.
Like he said, there's a thing that happens over there where they, they don't want to see anybody succeed.
They try to put you in your place and they try to downplay the possibility of your success right, right to your face.
bryan callen
It's very gauche to try to aspire to something.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
And Scandinavia has the same issue.
It's old Europe thinking, right?
joe rogan
That's got to be exhausting.
bryan callen
It's why when Hollande of France started talking about taxing the rich 75% of their income, it was met with a great deal of support because it wasn't workable, but there's always been a real suspicion in Europe of people with too much money because they become aristocracy and they become oppressive.
joe rogan
That's echoed by what you're hearing today about the elite, the one percenters, you know?
The problem with wealth inequality in this country.
bryan callen
It's called Marxism.
joe rogan
Wealth inequality, man.
bryan callen
It's called a march.
We're dealing with cultural Marxism and, you know.
That's always going to be there.
It's a very easy, good guy, bad guy thing.
What people don't realize is that wealth is always changing.
You don't start wealthy.
A lot of people started poor, then they got wealthy, then they lost their money, and they got wealthy again.
There is, however, a concentration of a great deal of wealth in very few hands.
If you look at Google, Amazon, and Apple, and Facebook, I think they only employ about 500,000 people total.
And they have so much wealth.
So, you know, the question is, what do we do about universal income?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's crazy.
And I think this is all going to come to a head with AI. I really do.
I think things are going to be automated in a way that...
bryan callen
So nobody has a job?
joe rogan
Yeah.
I think it's going to eliminate all driving jobs.
I think that's within 20 years of our life.
We're going to be looking back at driving your own car the way we look back at drum brakes.
bryan callen
I know.
So now what?
What do we do with human beings?
joe rogan
That's a good question.
Very good question.
bryan callen
With an outdated piece of machinery.
joe rogan
Very good question.
Like, is it manufacturing, you know, that we need robots for?
And maybe there's other things other than driving.
Manufacturing and driving.
Maybe there's other things that people would be...
unidentified
Cashiers, too.
bryan callen
You're not going to have cashiers.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're right.
bryan callen
You put your tray into a, you know, thing.
joe rogan
Burger-flippin' robot.
Flippy starts shift at Cali Burger.
There you go.
They got a burger-flippin' robot.
bryan callen
That's fucking great.
joe rogan
So he's going to get a perfect burger.
You're not going to have some kid talking about pussy, forgetting about your burger.
You get an overcooked burger.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Right?
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
There you go.
So if that's the case, then it seems to me that we have to figure out what to do with all this leisure time, but we have to pay people.
joe rogan
It could be real weird, man.
I think it's one of those things that's creeping up on us, sort of like the internet creeped up on us.
Like the internet came, and out of nowhere, all of a sudden, everyone had access to Any answer to any question you ever wanted.
You could watch videos on anything.
You could learn how to do anything online.
I mean, there's a YouTube video where you can learn basically how to crochet.
You could learn how to tan your own leather.
You could learn how to build a bomb.
You could fucking do anything.
You could just constantly be taking in information.
That's just the beginning.
I think one day within the next 10, 20 years, they're going to have everything automated.
Before it's artificial intelligence, it's just going to be a super efficient robot that can do whatever task you program it to do.
It's going to be way better at it than people.
It'd be pointless to have a person do that thing.
And then we've got to decide what to do with all these people.
And there's going to be a lot of us.
bryan callen
A lot.
joe rogan
There's going to be a lot of us.
bryan callen
It's called the jobocalypse.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
So what do we do?
joe rogan
Is that what they're calling it?
bryan callen
Yeah.
Because 47% of...
joe rogan
Cover of a magazine.
bryan callen
What is it?
Humility is the new smart.
There's this book about this 47% of all jobs that we know of now, at least in this country, are going to be obsolete in the next 20 years.
joe rogan
Do you think we'll adapt?
bryan callen
Yes, human beings are fucking adaptable.
joe rogan
I hope we just get more creative.
I hope people start doing things more with their hands.
bryan callen
Already are.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
We already are.
I mean, there's more access to expressing yourself.
The problem is it becomes like the cult of the amateur where you just got a lot of bullshit out there, but...
I do think that we will be in a place...
Well, like, you know, if you look at where philosophy...
So, what was it?
The rise of European Western civilization?
What the fuck was it?
Oh, anyway, if you look at how the Greeks were able to export timber, wine, and olive oil...
It gave their economy some money and they had leisure time.
They didn't have to live on subsistence.
They could trade for things that they needed as opposed to making them themselves.
So the Greece, ancient Greece, was fairly wealthy in comparison and it gave a large sector of their population, at least the richer population, time to do things like not be in the fields all day, but rather time to sit around, eat and think and talk.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Write books.
bryan callen
Sure, which is probably where a lot of, like, Socrates and Plato and Aristotle benefited from, right?
joe rogan
Sure.
bryan callen
So you wonder, like, as we get to a point where we don't have to do so much, it becomes very easy to keep our bodies in homeostasis, right?
Keep our bodies at the right temperature, and we just need a certain amount of food and shelter.
And then, look at how cheap entertainment is.
I mean, look at Netflix.
I mean, it's ten bucks a month.
You can watch anything you want, right?
joe rogan
All day, forever.
bryan callen
Sure.
So then, like, what do we do, man?
What do we do with our time?
joe rogan
Well, we didn't have to think about what we were going to do from 1820 to 2020. We didn't have to think about it.
It just sort of happened.
And I think that's going to happen as well.
But I think we're going to have to adjust, obviously, the advice we give to children as far as what's necessary and what's not necessary.
bryan callen
I don't know what to tell my kids.
joe rogan
I don't know what to tell your kids either.
That's the thing.
They're going to have to figure it out as they go along, but they've got to be flexible.
You know?
You gotta be flexible.
I also think, and this is why I've been thinking this a lot lately, I think we have to move.
I think California is over-fucking-populated, and I think it's going to get to a point in our lifetime where it's not a smart place to be.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
There's way too many people.
I mean, you know, you go to the airport all the time.
You know that drive.
I had to do it the other day at 8 o'clock in the morning.
I was like, this is hilarious.
bryan callen
Or you'll get to a point where you won't have to fly.
You'll get to a point where...
joe rogan
Yeah, that's true, but the sheer number of people, if anything goes wrong, all in this one spot, it's just not wise.
It doesn't feel good.
bryan callen
Yeah, I know what you mean.
I always feel unsafe.
joe rogan
It doesn't feel good.
It feels like people aren't that valuable.
They're everywhere.
We're infested.
bryan callen
We should go to a place with less.
Alvin Toffler, I think that's who it was, the futurist, who said, you've got to learn how to learn, unlearn, and relearn.
And that's the only way we're going to survive in the fucking 21st century.
joe rogan
I'm not really worried about people surviving.
I think we're going to be okay in that regard, as long as we don't get hit by anything.
Like, we don't get Putin, or we don't get hit by an asteroid, or we don't get hit by a supervolcano, which are all those things that are actually really possible.
I mean, no one wants to think that we can get attacked by Russia, but frickin' for sure we can.
All sorts of weird scenarios can present themselves in this wacky life with a bunch of things falling into place in the wrong way.
All of a sudden, you got World War II. It's happened.
I mean, that's just the nature of humans.
And if we deny the past, ah, that was then.
We're different now.
If we don't look at this rationally, we can realize, like, how precarious we are.
Now that is just one thing that we can kind of control.
Hopefully human beings can control their impulses to fucking hit the button.
bryan callen
Yeah, but there's that thing that Nalim Taseb, what's his name?
Nassim Taleb, who talks about the black swan.
So know that there's always a black swan.
Know that the aberration, know that history is full of things you never saw coming.
joe rogan
Hitler.
bryan callen
Hitler, the financial crisis, the housing crisis, it goes on and on, and history is full of that.
Most wars start as a weekend skirmish, and people kind of leave for the weekend, leave all their stuff, and it's going to be over, and before you know it, it's a 30-year civil war that's happened in Lebanon.
That's where Taleb's from.
So, you've got to at least know that you're not going to be able to predict the future, but know that the unpredictable will always be present, and will always take what you...
Took to be reality and flip it on its fucking head and I think robotics and I think AI are certainly You know that tidal wave do you worry at all about superpower struggles between like the United States and China United States and Russia way less only because I think that there's less there's less profit in violent warfare and It just doesn't profit anybody.
There's way more profit in trade and dealing with, you know, you're gonna have issues like this tariff issue, but for the most part...
So the biggest advantage is that there isn't a whole lot of advantage for a country to take over territory, because that's not what makes you wealthier.
So if Russia came in and took over Silicon Valley, there's nothing to take over.
joe rogan
I don't think they're talking about doing that.
I think they're talking about dropping a bomb somewhere.
What they're saying is essentially that they're not talking about invading the United States.
That's ridiculous.
They would never do that.
The real question is unless they nuked us first.
bryan callen
But why would they drop a bomb?
joe rogan
Well, there might be some reason why they feel backed into a corner.
bryan callen
They have a lot of financial interest in the United States.
joe rogan
Sure.
Yeah, it's not likely unless they feel like there was some way where they would benefit extremely well from having us debilitated.
It's not likely because we would attack back and it's mutually assured destruction, right?
But the fact that a person could make the decision whether or not to do that or whether or not that's logical and you're relying on a person who's essentially a murderous dictator running this fucking crazy half-assed government over there.
I mean, what is he doing over there?
I mean, just from what you know about Russia's state-sponsored doping program, what that guy went straight up to Putin.
Everybody knew what the fuck they were doing.
They were doing it on purpose.
I mean, that's a crazy country, man.
It's crazy.
And it's 2018, and it's still crazy.
bryan callen
Well, it's run by one idea, which is might makes right.
The male with the biggest club is the male that calls all the shots.
joe rogan
That's a big concern with me, but my real big concern are natural things.
Pandemics, pandemic virus.
bryan callen
Nuclear accidents.
joe rogan
Nuclear accidents and earthquakes.
Earthquakes, the big one for me, super volcano.
That is an inevitable reality that we're going to have to face one day.
Whether it's 100 years from now or it's 10 years from now, Yellowstone is going to blow.
They don't know when, but it could be any time.
bryan callen
And it could take out the entire continent.
joe rogan
The whole continent.
Yeah.
If the Yellowstone blows, they say every 600,000 to 800,000 years, it's a continent killer.
It just blows and everybody's fucked.
And the last time it happened was 600,000 years ago.
So it might be 200,000 years before it happens again.
And who knows?
We might figure out how to drill a hole in there and pop it like Dr. Pimple Popper.
You ever see that Instagram page?
bryan callen
Sure have.
joe rogan
She drills a hole in there like a pimple and squirts all that lava out.
And maybe it's okay.
bryan callen
Get out of here, yeah.
joe rogan
Maybe that'll keep it from blowing up.
But if it blows, dude.
They have thousands of earthquakes every year.
Thousands.
Thousands.
Just constantly moving and rumbling.
There's just loose crust.
And underneath is this gigantic reservoir of melting rock.
Melted rock.
Melted rock that shoots into the fucking sky.
bryan callen
It's giant.
joe rogan
The very blood of the earth.
Oh, it's so big.
They didn't even know it was a volcano until like...
I think it was 20, maybe 20 years ago, they started doing overhead satellite photos, and they're like, oh, Jesus.
And they thought it was just like a hotbed of, you know, geosolar activity or what it would be, not geosolar.
Geothermal.
Geothermal activity.
You know, they had Old Faithful spray water up in the sky, and they realized, oh, there's something going on underneath the surface.
And then they get these satellite photos, and they realized, holy shit, this is a crater.
This thing is a crater that used to be a mountain that exploded.
And I want to say it's something like...
How wide is the...
I don't want to mess this up.
I want to say it's like 600 kilometers wide.
bryan callen
Jesus.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's an enormous volcano.
bryan callen
So the core of the earth we know is molten lava?
joe rogan
No, there's a bunch of shit down there that's not good.
What is it?
Okay.
Okay.
No, it's 35 miles, 50 mile long.
Okay.
bryan callen
Don't you think it's weird that there are so many different kinds of realities?
So the reality that if you go up into the stars, it's a different reality.
And if you go away in the microscopic level, it's a totally different reality.
Then you can go to the subatomic level.
joe rogan
Look at this.
The region's most recent caldera forming eruption was 640,000 years ago.
Creating the 35-mile-wide, 50-mile-long Yellowstone caldera.
Okay, I fucked up the distance.
But still, that's pretty goddamn big.
So a 50-mile-long, 35-mile-wide volcano that just blows up to the point where the top's not there anymore.
It just shoots off shit a mile into the sky, and then you get nuclear winter all over the globe, and anything even remotely near it gets cooked instantly.
bryan callen
Is that right?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, you're fucked.
bryan callen
So we're all dead.
joe rogan
Oh, we're dead as fuck.
We're dead as fuck.
If Yellowstone blows, we don't have a chance.
bryan callen
We'll be dead in a couple of weeks.
The people I've talked to that kind of like they'll lose a leg to a shark or something and they end up dying.
They pass out.
They all said that it was super peaceful.
They just got this overwhelming sense of peace and they were like, oh, I'm going to die now.
joe rogan
Oh.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's the brain.
The brain's pumping out that dopamine and dimethyltryptamine and all these different things to try to transition you.
bryan callen
Yeah, but existence is a weird thing.
joe rogan
What do you think happens?
bryan callen
I don't know, man.
joe rogan
When you go.
bryan callen
My feeling is that, talking to this quantum physicist, this badass dude, I feel like...
There must be this idea that existence is a question of...
He was talking about existence is a question of the question...
What question are you asking and where are you standing?
So there are different forms of existence, right?
So there are different forms of reality.
Like there's the subatomic reality.
There's the Newtonian reality that you can measure and see.
We're here...
If I was looking at Los Angeles from a plane, that's a different perspective.
It might be a different kind of reality.
He kind of like said, most physicists, he was trying to explain what existence is, right?
And how it's meaningless.
And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?
He was talking about mathematics.
And he said, well, this is a reality to us because of where we are standing.
And the space-time continuum that we are occupying right now.
So we are here and all that you are experiencing may not, may very well not even be a reality right over in this direction.
So I said, what the fuck do you mean?
joe rogan
That's what dudes say when they sit around with legal papers all day.
They write a bunch of shit and nobody fucks them.
unidentified
Well, that's...
bryan callen
Well, that's what I mean.
And I go, what the fuck are you talking about?
And he said, he's going to win a Nobel Prize.
And he said, okay, I guess the best way to put it is, think of you having virtual reality goggles on, and people are splashing water on you as you're in the water, and you're getting rocked back and forth.
I guess that's the best way to describe what you consider to be your reality.
I was like, alright, alright.
joe rogan
Maybe.
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
Maybe.
Maybe.
bryan callen
But they seem to be able to prove a lot of this in...
Like, what's fascinating to me is...
I didn't know how to get into this, but he was talking about how electrons can communicate with each other, like on a sheet of metal, and they don't see each other.
In terms of the electrons, they're light years away, but they completely all work together.
joe rogan
How do they work together?
bryan callen
There's a mathematical way of proving.
Hall's theorem is a mathematical sort of algorithm that proves.
The answer to that is that there's an invisible conductor.
A higher intelligence, an emergent intelligence, is dictating that communication.
joe rogan
An intelligence or an order?
bryan callen
An order.
joe rogan
Right, but not intelligence as we would think about it.
bryan callen
So intelligence is the wrong way to say it, and he said that to me too, because I said intelligence and he said order.
And you're right.
So there's an order, right?
So there's an order to the chaos, right?
So the way schools of fish, but you know, schools of fish and birds, guess what else behaves that way?
Inert matter.
Electrons.
unidentified
Why?
joe rogan
Well, that's one of the things that they think is going on with birds.
It's one of the reasons why birds have some sort of internal compass.
And that they literally react to the poles of the earth.
Like, they know when migrating birds, they know which way to go.
Like, they really do, somehow or another.
But they also know not to fly into each other.
Like when you see them all flying together and they move in tandem.
bryan callen
Yes.
It's insane.
joe rogan
It's gorgeous.
unidentified
It's insane.
bryan callen
It's gorgeous.
But you know your brain is the same way.
So the neurons?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
There's no reason.
It makes no sense that the neurons.
So each neuron is just essentially an on-off switch or whatever it is.
But for whatever reason, all of those neurons have self-organized.
Who organized them?
They self-organized.
That's what's fascinating.
And the way your brain has self-organized, so has this sheet of metal.
And he kind of proved, he sat around, and I think he's 38 or 39, and he solved this theorem called Hall's theorem.
It took them three years to make sure he was right.
joe rogan
Don't you think that happens when there's like a big mass event, like mob mentality?
Don't you think that's part of what is going on with mob mentality?
That things happen and things can get chaotic and people just go with it.
They go with it in mob.
I think the origin of that is probably survival instincts in war.
That in war, you have to accept unbelievably barbaric reality.
And so you have to be able to slide into that.
We're killing everybody with axes.
Let's go.
And then everybody else is doing it.
I guess I'm in.
And then you start hacking people up.
Well, you would never do it By yourself, if it was just totally up to you.
You find yourself getting caught up in the wave of where the human hive is moving.
All these people are moving towards violence or moving towards chaos.
People get wrapped up in these mob mentality moments in a very, very big way.
bryan callen
Well, you can also go...
You can actually...
You can step back from that and actually...
You can explain that, actually, when you look at bacteria, certain bacteria, and certain insect colonies.
And let me explain.
So, somebody like Antonio DeMasi, who is a behavioral scientist who wrote a fucking great book, but very dense, called The Strange Order of Things.
And he talks about how human beings behave in a certain way, like their feelings Are directly related to their biology because their feelings are essentially the voices or the mechanism by which you know whether or not to bring your body back into homeostasis when it's out of homeostasis, when it's out of this homeodynamic actually state, right?
So in other words, that mob is probably going in there with axes because they perceive, the feelings are they perceive a threat Bacteria actually behave the exact same way.
And you can put bacteria into certain, and there's a scientist who does this a lot, you can put them into certain conditions where the bacteria will behave like they'll do some fascinating things.
Not only will they fucking take over the other bacteria and go out into an all-out war and kill mercilessly the other bacteria, but sometimes when they find they can't kill that bacteria, they'll actually cooperate with that bacteria.
Now, how about this?
Within the ranks of their own bacteria, the bacteria that are not pulling their weight, that tend to be lazier than the other bacteria, even though they're the same species, those bacteria will be fucking shunned.
They'll be pushed out.
Like people.
Like people.
They're the weak link.
Insects, If you look at insect colonies, they behave very much like human cultures do.
You got an ant that's protecting the queen ant, or a bee that's protecting the queen bee, you have soldiers that do the fighting, you have workers that do the working, and they self-organize in this incredible way.
And nobody's really, it's not like it's somebody, it's not a top-down thing, it's sort of a genetically programmed thing, but their behavior is very similar.
Their behavior, so even with bacteria, when they can't beat this bacteria, they'll join forces with that bacteria to defeat the other bacteria that's weaker.
And it's fascinating.
So even on the unicellular level, you see striking similarities between humans and even bacteria.
Now, add to that the fact that only one in ten of your cells as a human being is actually human, and the rest is bacteria.
In fact, you as a human might be the patina.
You're just the patina.
On a background of bacteria.
So, maybe bacteria is dictating how the fuck you behave and not you.
joe rogan
Well, the bacteria is also on the outside.
bryan callen
And inside and outside.
joe rogan
Skin floor is incredibly important.
bryan callen
Yes.
unidentified
And your gut.
joe rogan
That's why I always recommend people eat probiotics.
It's one of the things that helps you with diseases.
Yes.
And then natural oil soaps and non-antibacterial soaps.
That's very important.
bryan callen
So that's right.
So keeping your biodome in order, which is the new science, might also be dictating your very behavior.
joe rogan
I think it does.
I think when I eat healthier and I eat a lot of probiotics, I feel more at ease.
I feel more comfortable.
bryan callen
I heard you have to be careful with probiotics because you can throw off your gut level, too.
joe rogan
Well, what are you eating, though?
I'm eating it in food.
I've decided a long time ago that, I mean, you can take some probiotic pills and stuff like that, and I definitely take some when I'm on the road.
I bring that on at total gut health because if I'm on the road, I don't know what the fuck I'm eating, right?
I want to make sure I'm getting good food.
But while I'm at home, I eat a lot of fermented vegetables.
That's good.
I've been into a lot of that.
I eat kimchi, like, almost every day.
bryan callen
Well, because you're an extremist, and I know you do.
But it is good.
joe rogan
If you feel good, then you feel good.
That shit, that kombucha is fucking phenomenal, that GT's kombucha.
bryan callen
I heard somebody in my family got endometrial cancer, and the doctor said, the surgeon who deals with this exclusively said, do me a favor and just don't drink these for a while.
unidentified
Whoa.
bryan callen
And she goes, why?
And he said, I can't prove this yet, but I see a direct link between this type of cancer and women who drink a lot of probiotic drinks like this.
joe rogan
No shit.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
See if you can find anything on that.
Women drink probiotic drinks cause cancer, and then women drinks martinis blowjobs.
Put that all together.
bryan callen
Hey, man!
Come on, dude!
That's too much!
joe rogan
Just kidding.
unidentified
Just kidding.
bryan callen
Just fucking kidding.
unidentified
Just kidding.
Almost kidding.
joe rogan
That would be terrifying, man, if that was the case.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, I would think maybe there's a certain level.
Like, if you were a nutty person who drank, like, really powerful kombucha all day.
Like, all you drank is kombucha.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, your body might be overwhelmed.
bryan callen
An extreme is intimidating, right?
I mean, you gotta have balance.
The question is this, too.
What's the metric for how many vitamins you need?
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
And then, on top of that, if you have enough, what does adding more to that do?
Does it help you?
Does it do nothing?
Does it do harm?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Is it the same for you as it is for Brendan?
Is it the same for me?
How is there a USDA when everybody's body is so radically different sized?
How come 1,000 milligrams is good for this guy and it's not good for him?
I think that there's a lot of people, too, that are probably just not getting the right fucking combinations of food, too.
You just need to experiment, figure out what's the right combinations of things for you.
That was what the whole Gracie diet was based on.
The Gracie diet was based on you shouldn't eat certain foods in combination because the enzymes that are to break down fruit are not good to mix with the enzymes that break down meat, and you should eat them separate from each other.
They had a bunch of whole theories about that stuff.
bryan callen
What do you think if there were certain truths about diet after all this time?
Like certain truths, right?
joe rogan
There's giant variations between human requirements.
That's what I've found, to be truth.
I've stopped saying for a long time ago that you should do this.
One thing you should definitely do is eat healthy, right?
So what's eating healthy?
I don't think there's anything wrong unless you have some sort of a disease.
I don't think there's anything wrong with eating a bunch of green leafy vegetables.
I think that shit's very important for you.
I do it.
I feel better when I do it.
My body feels like...
When I eat a big-ass salad, like a spinach salad, my body always feels like this, like...
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, like you got it in there.
That's what I was looking for.
I was looking for some of that green leafy stuff, all those phytonutrients.
That to me, that just, it feels like my body jives with that.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
Elk.
Wild game meat.
Tastes better, feels different.
bryan callen
It's how we've evolved.
joe rogan
It's different.
It's just different.
I know it is.
Everybody's been saying it forever, and then when I eat it, I go, oh, ooh.
Like, it gives you that salad thing times five.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
It's like, whoa.
Like, when I eat a nice steak, it feels good.
I like a nice steak, but it's a lazy nice.
It's a lazy meat.
If I cut into nice American corn-fed steak, tastes delicious, but it's a lazy meat.
I cut into a piece of elk, I go like, oh.
It just rumbles somewhere deep in your DNA. You eat a deer.
There's something about eating a deer.
Your body's like, this motherfucker was sprinting all day.
You know, there's something in there that's different.
You're eating an animal that has this vitality to it, a wild vitality.
bryan callen
Charles Poliquin, you know, the strength coach, talks about, he goes, for me, I have to eat, my favorite meat is the longhorn antelope in the north of Canada.
They spend a lot of time running away from wolves.
So, you know, the glycogen in the meat is always...
They always have a high level of glycogen.
It's like a meat fudge.
And, of course, you have to kill them from helicopter.
You can't.
You're not allowed to kill them anywhere else.
So you shoot them from helicopter.
And there's only one meat store in Toronto that I go to.
I'm like, all right, dude.
Take it easy.
But it does sound fucking delicious.
joe rogan
Canada has antelopes?
bryan callen
Maybe it's a type of antelope, yeah.
joe rogan
Sure it's not caribou?
bryan callen
No, it's a type of antelope, I think.
joe rogan
Wow.
bryan callen
Yeah, and maybe it's caribou, but I think it's antelope.
Maybe, I don't know, but either way, they run away from wolves all day, and the glycogen is really high.
joe rogan
Well, we're going Axis deer hunting.
bryan callen
Maybe that's what it is.
joe rogan
In Hawaii?
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
It's probably not, but Axis deer, they evolved in India, running away from tigers.
They're an Asian deer, and their natural enemy is tigers.
unidentified
Phew.
joe rogan
You have never seen an animal.
I shot at a deer that was 40 yards away.
It looked at me.
I let the arrow go.
By the time the arrow got to it, it was nowhere near where it was.
What?
My arrow goes 280 feet per second.
The arrow, once it left the string, was headed towards that thing at 280 feet per second.
That deer was nowhere near it.
unidentified
Wow!
joe rogan
He was six, seven feet away.
Like, gone.
The arrow went right into the bushes and he was over there.
unidentified
Goddamn!
joe rogan
See ya!
You can see nothing like it.
They're like from the Matrix.
bryan callen
Let me see an access tier.
Big?
joe rogan
It's about 130 to 150 pounds for a big one.
Not quite as big as a whitetail, like a northern whitetail like we hunted in...
That looks a lot bigger than it really is.
See if you can find the picture of the one that I shot.
It's online on Cameron Haynes' Instagram page.
I try to keep all the dead animals off my Instagram page.
I send them to my hunter friends and they post them.
bryan callen
They get so mad, right?
joe rogan
They definitely get mad.
Yeah, people get mad.
Meanwhile, they have a burger on their page.
People are just goofy.
unidentified
They have a burger?
There it is.
joe rogan
That's my axis deer that I shot.
Wow.
bryan callen
That's amazing.
That's in Hawaii.
joe rogan
Yep, that's in Hawaii.
bryan callen
How is Hawaii?
A lot of bugs?
joe rogan
No.
No.
Little tiny ones, a little bit.
But no, what it really is, is a giant...
That's a pronghorn antelope.
That's a different antelope.
Is that an antelope in Canada?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay, because I know they're in Montana and Wyoming and shit.
Oh, they're on a coin?
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
You're a hundred down the south?
joe rogan
No, I don't think so.
I don't think I've been...
No.
Nope.
Just Texas.
bryan callen
I'm going to Alabama.
joe rogan
Texas is not the south, though.
So if we could organize something for Mexico, you're in?
bryan callen
I'm down.
joe rogan
I think we'll use rifles, so it'll be easier.
bryan callen
Let me know.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
You brought me that bow.
I've yet to shoot it.
joe rogan
I know, but you can't go bow hunting without...
bryan callen
I gotta practice.
joe rogan
Especially if we go, yeah, after deer.
Like I said with that thing...
bryan callen
You can injure one if you don't do it the right way.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, it's just...
It's just something, if you want to really do it, you've got to get obsessed with it.
The first time you do it, it should be in a controlled environment.
The first way would really be, a good way would be, wild pigs over bait.
Because there's a lot of places where they try to eradicate these wild pigs, so they have feeders.
And the feeders will go off, and the wild pigs are almost conditioned to go near the feeder.
And then when they go near the feeder you know exactly the distance because they're right underneath the feeder.
The feeder is 20 yards away from you and you have a controlled shot and it's easy.
And it's an animal that they must kill.
So there's not like a number of them that you can hunt.
bryan callen
I can't believe how many there are.
joe rogan
There's so many.
If you're in Texas they shoot them out of helicopters.
They fly around in helicopters and gun them out.
bryan callen
They still say you can't shoot your way out of the problem.
joe rogan
Well, they're doing their best to at least do something about it.
They're not going to shoot their way out of the problem to the point of extinction.
They move so quick.
There's so many of them.
They're smart.
bryan callen
Tough as shit.
joe rogan
And they have litters three or four times a year.
bryan callen
Goddamn.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They just constantly...
They're rough looking, man.
Oh, they're monsters.
bryan callen
What are the ones that I saw?
There's one eating out of a garbage can in Asia.
Those are not wild pigs.
Those are wild boars.
joe rogan
Well, a boar just means a male.
A female is a sow.
bryan callen
Well, some of those ones you see, they have got a razor back.
They're just like those...
They look like...
They're not as big as pigs, but they're just fierce-looking animals.
joe rogan
Well, it's just because of the supply of food.
If they had as much pigs as much as theirs, that's it.
bryan callen
That's a real wild boar, right?
joe rogan
Yep.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
That's a real wild boar, man.
That's a big-ass pig.
bryan callen
That doesn't look like a real pig.
joe rogan
Honestly, that almost looks like a warthog.
bryan callen
Yeah, it does.
joe rogan
So big.
But here's the thing about wild pigs, man.
This is something I learned from our pal Steve Rinella.
They are literally all the same animal.
Wild pigs and domestic pigs, they're the same animal.
It's called sous scroffa.
They're all part of one gigantic species.
Look at the size of that thing!
unidentified
Look at the size of that thing!
joe rogan
That looks like a power lifter.
bryan callen
Yeah, that'll kill you.
joe rogan
That looks like it's like 400 pounds.
bryan callen
Look at how long his snout is, man.
joe rogan
Look at his tiny little bitch-ass feet.
bryan callen
Yeah, those are tiny feet.
joe rogan
That doesn't even seem real.
That seems like an animal in like a Beatles cartoon, like the Nowhere Man.
You know, his proportions were all off.
bryan callen
I think about John Jones and how skinny his legs are and what a fucking beast he is.
If you look at his legs, you're like, you got some pencil legs.
joe rogan
He's strong as shit, too.
He's strong as shit with those pencil legs.
I've heard.
bryan callen
Chael Sonnen said he cradled him.
Didn't he cradle Ryan Bader?
joe rogan
Yeah.
He smoked Ryan Bader.
He choked out Ryan Bader.
He smokes everybody.
He's ridiculously strong.
He's ridiculously strong, too, when it comes to deadlifting and shit, too.
He does a lot of powerlifting now.
bryan callen
So strong.
joe rogan
I wonder what's going to happen with him.
bryan callen
I don't know.
I want to see him fight Stipe.
joe rogan
I want to see him fight Brock.
That's what I'm saying.
That's what Brendan and I were just saying.
This is the card.
Stipe, DC, John Jones, Brock, Floyd Mayweather, CM Punk, Rafael Dos Anjos, Tyron Woodley.
There's your pay-per-view.
There's your pay-per-view.
You're welcome!
bryan callen
It's kind of crazy.
joe rogan
You're welcome.
bryan callen
I want to see Khabib, Tony Ferguson.
I'm very excited about it.
joe rogan
Why don't you come to Brooklyn?
What do you do on April 7th?
bryan callen
If I'm not...
Actually, I should plug some dates.
joe rogan
Come on, you can work with me.
bryan callen
Come see me this weekend.
joe rogan
Okay.
Well, then we're not talking about that.
bryan callen
Hold on.
I'm at Stand-Up Live in Huntsville, Alabama.
But wait, April...
I'm around April 7th.
I'll be at the...
joe rogan
New York?
bryan callen
West Palm.
joe rogan
Can you come to New York?
bryan callen
West Palm Improv, April 12th, 13th, 14th, everybody.
So come see me.
But wait, April 7th?
Yeah, I can come to that.
I can come to that, I think.
joe rogan
Brennan's going to be in town, too.
bryan callen
So hold on.
joe rogan
I think he's doing something for Showtime.
bryan callen
Maybe we can do Stand-Up, and then we'll do...
I'll do it.
I would come.
joe rogan
Alright, we're coming.
For real.
Ari's going to be there too, although I'm not supposed to say.
What's that?
unidentified
Don't want to forget about that.
joe rogan
Oh yeah.
We'll leave with this.
We have this thing we're doing.
Our friend Pauly Toon is a guy that is now...
Taking, we've hired him to take sections of the podcast that are funny and turn them into these animated clips.
They're fucking amazing.
He's really talented.
And you can get them on the powerful JRE YouTube channel.
I think there's like a whole group of them, right?
There's a playlist for them.
And he's made a ton of them, and they're awesome.
So here's one.
It's a bad breath moment.
This is with...
jamie vernon
From a fight companion with Callan, Jimmy Smith, Eddie, and you.
joe rogan
Boom.
unidentified
All right.
joe rogan
And we're going to wrap this up, folks.
So that's it for now.
My next gigs are...
The only thing that I have where there's some tickets available is New Orleans!
New Orleans, which is March 15th, I think.
Is that it?
Yes.
Thursday night, March 15th, there's some tickets available for the second show.
Everything else is...
I think it's down to like single tickets.
Oh, the Ice House in Pasadena.
I still haven't put this on Twitter.
I'm going to eventually.
But the 23rd and the 24th.
Two shows each night.
23rd and the 24th is a Friday and a Saturday.
It's a rare weekend at the Ice House.
But Nashville.
Or New Orleans.
Yeah, I'm doing Nashville too.
But New Orleans on the 15th.
Did I say Nashville early on the 15th or did I say New Orleans?
I said New Orleans, right?
New Orleans.
New Orleans on the 15th of March, which is a little over a week from now.
And then the 30th of March, Nashville.
Two shows at the Ryman.
I think they're sold out.
And then two shows in Charlotte.
I don't know how many tickets left to that either.
bryan callen
Come see me at Stand Up New York this week.
I mean, Stand Up Live in Huntsville, Alabama.
joe rogan
What are you doing?
You're going to the wrong place.
unidentified
Stand Up Live in Huntsville, Alabama is so different.
bryan callen
This Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then West Palm Beach Improv, April 12th, 13th, 14th.
joe rogan
Maybe they should go to briancallen.com when they can make plans.
bryan callen
Or tfatk.com.
joe rogan
tfatk.com.
All right.
This is a bad breath moment from JRE Tunes.
Thank you, everybody.
And we'll be back tomorrow with the great and powerful John Dudley.
Maybe Brian could come.
We'll teach him how to shoot a bow.
bryan callen
I'll do it.
joe rogan
Later.
Bye everybody!
Dude, I had a cracked filling, and they took the filling out, and the fucking smell that came out of my mouth, I was like, holy shit!
Because there was an infection, and I wound up getting a root canal.
Like, you could hear it pop through, and then just this fucking shit breath.
bryan callen
My father's friend, he was sleeping, his wife said, you have to go to the dentist.
He said, why?
He goes, your breath is so out of control...
So apparently he had an abscess, a sack of bacteria in the back of his mouth.
Well, when they took the filling out and they popped by accident the sack, The nurse threw up and the fucking dentist walked into the room at that moment and pulled his mask off and threw the fuck up as well.
unidentified
No way!
bryan callen
It was a double vomit fest.
joe rogan
Can you imagine?
unidentified
Did she puke on him or what?
She didn't puke on him, she just puked and they popped the sacks and went Like that.
joe rogan
It was that bad.
eddie bravo
I never have the balls to tell someone their breath stinks, though.
unidentified
If you work with them, you have to.
joe rogan
I would tell friends, and I would want them to tell me.
Like, if your breath stinks, I'm going to tell you, I'll tell you.
eddie bravo
It's one cool thing about black people.
unidentified
They'll tell you if your breath stinks.
They will tell you.
Black people have no problem with that.
bryan callen
Jesus Christ.
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