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Feb. 6, 2018 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:35:54
Joe Rogan Experience #1074 - Cameron Hanes
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Main voices
c
cameron hanes
01:02:58
j
joe rogan
01:29:57
Appearances
Clips
j
jamie vernon
00:06
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Speaker Time Text
joe rogan
Usually I have it, but it goes away after a month or so.
I've had it for like four months, pretty solid.
unidentified
Ooh!
joe rogan
And we're live.
Cam Haynes.
unidentified
How you doing, buddy?
I'm good.
How are you?
joe rogan
I'm good.
Welcome to California.
cameron hanes
I know.
And this place is amazing.
unidentified
It's pretty badass, right?
Yeah.
We did the grand tour and I'm ready to lift.
joe rogan
Yeah.
We're going to shoot first.
I don't want to have poor accuracy.
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
That's like your whole motto of run, lift, shoot.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
unidentified
Shouldn't it be shoot, lift, run or shoot, run, lift?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
You run in the mornings and then you run at night too, right?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do you have a problem?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's a problem.
That's too much.
cameron hanes
Well, I just fall back on the moderation is for cowards.
So that pretty much covers any psycho overdoing in excess.
It can be like, no, I'm just not a coward.
joe rogan
And what about overtraining?
Is that bullshit?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's totally bullshit.
But you were saying before that when you were 20, you're 50 now, but when you were 20, you could never do what you could do now when you were 50. No.
So if you tried to do what you do now at 50 when you were 20, wouldn't it be overtraining?
cameron hanes
I'm confused.
joe rogan
Well, I mean, if you weren't in shape, obviously you're in great shape because you do this all the time.
But if you weren't in great shape and you tried to keep this up, like what you're doing right now.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
No, I feel, I don't know.
I feel good.
joe rogan
Who is here?
Jamie, somebody just walked in.
Delivery.
Oh, okay.
So when you were 20, did you do anything?
cameron hanes
I mean, I've always been active.
I always played sports and ran 10k in the summers and things like that.
joe rogan
Just worked out a little or something?
cameron hanes
Yeah, I just wanted to lift a little bit, but not to the level I'm at now.
joe rogan
Yeah, but when I look at your Instagram, I get tired.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I do.
Because you're doing all that shit, especially that shit you're doing with Outlaw Strength.
cameron hanes
Yeah, Eric.
joe rogan
Eric.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Outlaw Strength on Instagram.
You guys are doing ridiculous amounts of reps.
cameron hanes
Yeah, we do.
It's all about the reps.
And it's like, I don't know.
And like I say, your body gets used to what you ask of it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
You know, if I would have tried to do that exact same thing when I was young, no way.
I mean, I'd probably be so sore I couldn't do anything for a week.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's what I was thinking also when I was looking at it.
I was like, if you stop doing this, how long will it take before it slides off?
cameron hanes
One day.
Because when I don't work out for one day, I'm skinny, fat, and weak.
joe rogan
No, for real.
What's the longest you've ever taken off?
cameron hanes
Oh, probably hunting.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
cameron hanes
If I'm at home, I would never take any time off.
But when I'm hunting, because that's what I'm there for.
joe rogan
Right, but when you're hunting, at least you're hiking, and there's a lot of physical activity, and there's a lot going on there.
But when I watch your videos, those Instagram videos of you guys, okay, we're going to do 100 reps of this, and we're going to do 100 reps of that.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because right now, I told you I'm suffering through this little tendonitis thing that I've been trying to fight off.
So I see all those reps, and my elbow starts hurting when I'm looking at the screen.
cameron hanes
Yeah, you know, people ask me about my joints or about, you know, because they're battling different things like that, and I have no idea.
I mean, I just, I don't have, I've been lucky where I don't have injuries.
You know, I mean...
joe rogan
That's very disappointing.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I mean, I, you know, my...
I'm banged up a little bit, but I've talked to you before where I've had to take Advil every day, and not anymore.
joe rogan
Well, tell that story, because that's a crazy story.
And I've talked about it on the podcast without you being here, but I called you after Rhonda Patrick did a podcast with me, and she was telling me about the dangers of what they call non-steroidal anti-inflammatories.
That's what ibuprofen is.
And she was saying it ruins your gut biome, and that it actually causes inflammation.
And so the people that are taking Advil every day for inflammation don't even realize that taking all that Advil actually is causing inflammation.
cameron hanes
Right, yeah.
joe rogan
So you quit.
cameron hanes
I quit.
And then I wasn't, and I almost think it was maybe placebo a little bit because it's like, not only did it not help after a while, but it made it worse, essentially, the inflammation.
So after hearing that and, you know, who's ever going to question Rhonda Patrick.
I would never.
So I'm like, well, I better stop that.
So since then, I haven't been taking anything.
And then I have taken, there's this, you can get it at the health food store.
It's called Kratom.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
cameron hanes
You ever heard of that?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
That seems to help.
joe rogan
You know, they're trying to outlaw that stuff.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Apparently, that Kratom stuff, I had Chris Bell on the podcast.
He's doing a documentary about Kratom.
And he did that documentary, Bigger, Stronger, Faster.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I know who he is.
joe rogan
He brought in some guys that sell Kratom, and they're explaining what it does, and I tried it.
And when I tried it, apparently if you take it in low doses, it's like almost a mild stimulant, which is what it felt like to me.
But if you take it in higher doses, it relaxes you, and it's really good for pain.
And Chris has had hip replacements.
cameron hanes
What did he say about it?
Was it positive or negative?
joe rogan
Positive.
There's no negative.
There's no downsides to it.
It's not addictive.
It's not bad for you.
It's an herb.
It's not toxic at all.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
So, of course, the government's trying to make it illegal.
cameron hanes
Oh, you can't have stuff out there that actually helps.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're trying to label it with fucking heroin and shit.
They're so crazy.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
But I think that's helped.
But other than that, I don't take anything.
I mean, nothing.
And I feel great.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
That's amazing.
So when you're doing all these reps, you do these crazy things on the lat pull-down machine where you do the whole stack, right?
cameron hanes
The goal is 20 of the stack of everything.
joe rogan
That's fucking ridiculous.
So how do you not get joint pain?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
So just because you do it all the time?
cameron hanes
I'm not sure.
joe rogan
Your body's conditioned to it?
cameron hanes
I can't.
joe rogan
Makes me want to do it.
cameron hanes
I know, but I don't want people to...
It's taken a while to work up there.
I don't want people to go and try to do that right out of the gate and then get hurt.
I think that's what frustrates people more than anything is when they're excited to make a lifestyle change and then something happens and then they get hurt.
joe rogan
Yeah, I was doing chin-ups three or four times a week.
I decided I was going to do 50 chin-ups at least three or four times a week.
Just make sure I did them all the time.
And then on top of that, I was doing heavy cleans, 90-pound cleans with kettlebells, cleans, and presses.
I started getting this whole nagging elbow pain.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I didn't want to be a pussy, so I kept working out through it.
And it would be fine.
During the workout, it would be fine.
It would start to hurt at the beginning of the workout, but then once the blood would get flowing, then it would be fine.
And then after a couple of weeks of that, my arm was like, hey, fuckhead.
Enough of this.
cameron hanes
Cleans are tough, though.
Cleans are hard.
I know what I can get away with.
I don't do deadlifts.
I used to do deadlifts.
I used to do all this stuff.
Now I'm like, even though I want to do I want to maybe every once in a while try a deadlift.
Because I know it feels good.
I mean, my hamstrings feel good.
My back feels strong when everything works right.
But I just know that it's just not smart.
joe rogan
There's a high possibility that the chick could go south.
cameron hanes
No, something gets tweaked in the bottom.
And then, you know, it's one side.
And then, you know, I feel it down my leg.
And I'm like, I don't want to be there.
joe rogan
For a while, you were taking that 130-pound rock and throwing it in a backpack.
Going up mountains with that.
You still doing that?
cameron hanes
No, it's gone.
My rock's gone.
joe rogan
What happened to the rock?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
Somebody stole it?
cameron hanes
I guess.
joe rogan
So you would leave it in the same spot?
cameron hanes
Or roll it off the side of the mountain.
joe rogan
There's some dude who probably jerks off on that rock.
unidentified
Probably.
joe rogan
This is the campaign's rock.
cameron hanes
Sounds fun.
joe rogan
I wouldn't be surprised.
I've seen a lot of things online.
cameron hanes
Oh, yeah.
There's some great people and there's some crazy people.
joe rogan
Oh, there's mostly great people.
Yeah, for sure.
I find that my interactions online are almost mostly positive.
Yeah.
Like, by far, the problem is that's like having mostly non-poisonous food.
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
A little bit of poison is enough.
joe rogan
All you'd have to do is go to this restaurant one out of ten times.
They fucking poison you.
You'd never go back to that restaurant.
I don't even think it's one out of ten.
I think the interactions that I have online that are negative, it's not even one out of a hundred.
cameron hanes
No, I don't think so.
For me, those are the ones that I am drawn to.
And I find myself, I see the negative, and I go past all these positive, and then I'll say something because just if I'm in a bad mood, after a whole day of getting beat down by Stupid comments, so I'll have to do something, and then I'll be like, why did I... So then I go back and I'll try to acknowledge some positive ones, because I feel guilty.
joe rogan
Well, I saw you post a picture of a bear that you shot the other day.
It was a video of a bear you shot, and I said, ooh.
I looked at those comments, I'm like, here we go.
cameron hanes
Which one?
joe rogan
It was you, you shot a bear, and you were opening its mouth and checking its teeth.
cameron hanes
Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.
joe rogan
And I saw that video and I was like, whoa, that's a landmine right there.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I know.
Bear.
You know bear.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
cameron hanes
It is.
joe rogan
That is the one animal that I think people have the most distorted perceptions of because of teddy bears and because of yogi and because I really want to take anybody who has these weird thoughts about bears.
I just really want to bring them to John and Jen's place in Alberta.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I want to say, why don't you, we're going to come hang around.
And if we're lucky, we're going to see a bear tear apart a baby bear.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because they do that every day.
cameron hanes
All the time.
joe rogan
They get up out of their dens and they go looking for baby bears.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then maybe if we're lucky, we'll see a bear get a hold of a fawn and it'll be crying and it'll eat that thing alive.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
They'll have a different take on it.
They'll be like, kill that!
joe rogan
Just people are nuts.
They're trying to bring wolves into California.
Or Colorado, rather.
They're talking about bringing wolves into Colorado.
Like, listen, folks, you don't have to do that.
You don't.
You already have bears.
cameron hanes
You know, I saw this the other day.
I think I put up...
I think it's what inspired me to put up...
There was a wolf video I posted.
There's some great wildlife videos out there.
Oh, it's crazy, right?
Great.
Not...
They can be emotional, like with that bear kill and the calf where I was crying.
I don't even like to see that.
I mean, I'm a hunter.
But there's one where these wolves were chasing down this cow elk.
And, you know, that's not a quick process.
And I put that up because I had seen a couple celebrities.
And I don't even know who the hell they are.
Movie stars, I think, or something.
But they're save the wolf fun or some wolf bullshit.
And they're, like, howling.
They're two humans and they were howling like they were wolves.
And it's like, I don't know.
I mean, wolves are great.
Wolves are one of my favorite animals, you know, called the Wild White Fang.
Those books, I love those Jack London books when I was young.
So wolves have always held a special place in my heart, but they're straight killers.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They're organized.
cameron hanes
That's what they do.
joe rogan
Intelligent killers.
cameron hanes
So, I mean, I'm not hating on them for doing that, but you just can't have wolves running around everywhere.
joe rogan
Well, yeah, you can.
You don't understand.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
In my neighborhood.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I was at home the other night.
I made a recording of this because I was at home.
My dogs were barking like crazy.
It was like 9 o'clock at night.
Just...
It's like, what the fuck is going on?
And I step outside and these coyotes are like a half a block away from my house.
Just screaming.
Those are wolves.
Those are little wolves.
And they got a hold of something.
cameron hanes
They're celebrating.
joe rogan
Some dude sent me a video that's on his page.
It's a compilation of all these videos from security cameras of coyotes killing cats and dogs.
Yeah.
Those are wolves.
cameron hanes
That's what they do.
joe rogan
Those are the little wolves.
That's all they are.
They can breed with wolves.
They literally are wolves.
It's a fascinating thing, the disconnect that people have with predators.
Look, if I was in Idaho or Montana and I saw wolves, I'd be pumped.
I would think it would be awesome.
You gotta keep an eye on those things, folks.
There's a reason why they killed them off 150 years ago.
It wasn't because they're awesome.
It's because they will kill people.
They will kill your kids.
They will kill your dog.
They will.
cameron hanes
I've seen wolves in the wild.
I saw a pack on Prince of Wales Island one time.
They came down to the water once, and I've seen them.
I had a wolf tag, actually, when I was in British Columbia hunting buffalo.
Yeah, I thought I was going to get a shot at a wolf up there, but I never have.
joe rogan
Now, they give tags up there because they're trying to diminish the population.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because they have too many.
cameron hanes
It's $50.
It's the same as in Alberta.
I mean, we get our bear tags when we go up there to John and Jen's, and $50 for a wolf tag also.
So it's not like there's a low number of wolves.
But every time I've seen them, I have been in a certain amount of awe just because...
There have been this amazing animal for my entire life.
It's hard not to look at a wolf and not think regal and wild.
There's that saying that you'll see bears and lions in the circus, but you'll never see a wolf.
They're just...
And I did the commercial with the wolf, too, which was amazing.
joe rogan
Well, that Under Armour commercial you told me was pretty crazy because they had this scene where the wolf snarls and they had to save that scene for the very end.
cameron hanes
Yeah, because it was...
They said, you know, it was supposed to be me against a wolf going after this elk and then I ended up winning that little the story as it was told and they needed to get the wolf snarling and so they brought some meat out gave it some meat but they said well Actually gave it, then took it away.
And obviously that's going to make any animal upset, especially a wolf.
But they said, once we do that, we're done with the wolf.
Because it's not going to just snap out of it.
That's going to be its mindset for a while.
It's not going to be happy.
Yeah, there it is.
joe rogan
Go back to that.
cameron hanes
i think it shows at the end it should yeah yeah and that was actually i mean people thought that that was edited and it wasn't you know right there with me no it was right there with me um you know they did a great job of putting that commercial together uh it wasn't necessarily snarling at me or growling at me but it was there it was it was fun how big was that wolf I think it was about 130 pounds.
I mean, it's tall.
That's a big, that's what surprised me is how tall they are.
joe rogan
Long legs, right?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And I think, you know, we were talking about earlier, as far as endurance goes, wolves, I believe, are the number one animal out there, as far as they can run miles and miles and miles, and they're tall, and they can just, you know, their gait is, you know, whatever, it allows them to go for hours and miles.
joe rogan
Yeah, I was talking about running with my dog, and he's only a year old, and he's in such good shape now, because he runs with me all the time.
See, if we run two miles, I run two miles.
He runs seven or eight, because he's running up and back and up and back and up and back.
But it's amazing how good a shape they're in right out of the box.
I mean, he's a fucking puppy.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he just books it up that hill.
And he turns around and looks at me, like, come on, bitch!
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
And he comes running back to me.
cameron hanes
Yeah, animals, you know, animals pretty much have the advantage over us on everything other than, you know, I mean, they're stronger, stronger jaws.
You know, their muscles stronger for what they have.
We have endurance as a...
Advantage over most animals potential endurance like elk, but don't luckily we have you know, we can use our minds Well, that is the reason why we're so weak.
joe rogan
It's so fascinating how things balance out.
It's like us using our mind, creating houses and cities and cars and just sitting in a chair all day.
It makes you soft, but then you figure out how to make a gun.
And that balances everything out.
Unless the gun jams.
And then nature comes back into play.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, all these people that are into the wolf, save the wolf.
The wolf's okay.
Guys, go to Idaho.
People are freaking out up there.
The wolves are okay.
Oh, more than okay.
They're starting to...
You go to Alaska.
I was in Park City recently in Utah.
And when I was there, we went to a store that had a wolf rug.
And I was like, "Jesus, you guys are selling a wolf rug?" And the guy explained to me, he said, well, these wolves are all shot by the government in Alaska because they're overpopulated.
So they're in these areas where they're trying to protect the moose population for the indigenous people that are subsistence hunters and live up there.
They have like a certain quota and he's like so it's actually like it's a good thing to sell these rugs because they're gonna shoot these wolves no matter what they're trying to keep the populations in check and I think that's that's something that these people that have that because see the problem with like celebrities was like they probably didn't think that shit through at all they just think this is a cool thing to be a part of of course everybody wants wolves to live I'll just go and say we've got to support the wolf we got to save the wolf yeah And so it looks like a cool thing for you to be a
part of.
cameron hanes
I think one of them would have been Lisa Bonet.
She's kind of a hippie, right?
joe rogan
Oh, she's a super hippie.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
She's got a nose ring.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Everything.
cameron hanes
She was pretty.
I remember that.
unidentified
Yeah.
Remember?
joe rogan
Isn't it funny that Bill Cosby was mad at her because she was naked in a movie?
Remember?
She was naked in Angel Heart with Mickey Rourke.
cameron hanes
And he was mad at that, huh?
joe rogan
He was mad at that.
Isn't that funny?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Funny how things work out.
cameron hanes
It's ironical.
joe rogan
Yeah, it is ironical.
I mean, look, I don't know.
I think wolves are awesome.
Don't get me wrong, folks.
I just don't think, and this was me, too, before I started hunting, before I started taking regular trips into the woods.
You know, you don't get it.
You just don't get it.
You got to go there.
cameron hanes
You do.
joe rogan
If you don't go there, you don't get it.
cameron hanes
Yeah, you know, we try to tell the story.
I mean, we're telling the story and it's getting through to some people.
I mean, I can see it.
I can see there's education there.
I mean, and I'm sure you get messages every day from people who have never hunted, who are interested in it, who just want to know what the lifestyle is.
We've sort of romanticized the lifestyle and it's easy to do because it's the mountains and the mountains are, you know, you get that connection and you get that empowerment.
So I think we are kind of turning the tide a little bit.
joe rogan
I got a message from a guy.
A while back, maybe four or five months ago, who was a vegan for a long time, started listening to the podcast, at first was upset about the talk about hunting, ran into some health issues.
His doctor recommended he start eating animal products again.
Started with eggs, worked his way back up to meat, ate meat again, was getting, you know, healthy, grass-fed, you know, ethically sustained animals, ethically raised animals.
Decided to go hunting.
Became a hunter.
Shot his first deer, ate his first deer, and now he's going to be a hunter.
I mean, this guy went full circle.
Part of the journey of him going full circle was listening to people talk about it on the podcast and realizing this idea that he had in his head that these people that are out there hunting are all people that hate animals and they're cruel and they're just rednecks that are going out there drinking beer and shooting these animals and laughing and hooting and hollering about it.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
You know, well, there's a couple points I want to make there.
One of them is, your podcast has been amazing for the education part, and I mentioned this, Adam and I did a podcast with the Gritty Bowman, and I said, you know, Joe's podcast, just because the type of person Joe is, as far as being open-minded and giving everything a chance, not coming in with biases, are the same type of listeners you have, you've kind of cultivated, or You know, they like you because, I don't know, they see themselves in you maybe.
But anyway, so those people have come in and listened to these podcasts like this without that bias.
When you listen to it and listen to us talk about it, it's not the redneck, you know, laughing because they're killing things, the person they may have thought.
It's, you know, this whole thing, this whole thing we talk about.
And so this podcast in particular has, I think, been a huge tool as far as promoting hunting and ethical hunting and Just the empowerment of being a hunter.
And so that, I don't know, just this venue, I don't know.
I don't know if we could have ever done that without, you know, the Joe Rogan podcast.
It's been amazing.
I don't know.
Have you noticed that?
I mean, with other things besides hunting?
joe rogan
I think floating, that's a big thing.
Sensory deprivation tanks, that business was going under.
There was virtually no tank centers in the world.
There was like one of them in Burbank, and I had heard one of them was in San Francisco.
They were hard to find.
There was none in New York.
Like one guy had one in an apartment in New York that you could rent out.
A guy had one like that in his house in Vegas that you could rent out.
There was none.
And now there's hundreds of tech centers all over the world.
And when you fill out a form...
Dude, I got one in 2002. I bought a house.
The house had a basement.
And I bought the house with the basement for two reasons.
One, because...
I wanted to put a tank in there.
And two, because the yard was big, so I could have my dogs running around the yard.
I just wanted to have a yard where the dogs could run around.
Those were my two requirements for a house.
Everything else, I was like, I really don't give a shit about it.
The TV sits there, and okay, here's where the bed goes.
I'm a man, you know?
There's things that women sweat when it comes to houses that dudes just don't sweat.
But for me, a big one was I tried a tank a couple of times at this place called Soothing Solutions in Burbank.
I don't even know if it's around anymore.
And then I put a tank in my basement, and then I started ranting and raving about it, and doing these YouTube videos about it, and then I got a new tank from the float lab, so I gave my old tank away online.
I had like a raffle, not a raffle, but like a random draw.
I said, just send me an email.
I gave an email address out, and I'll just pick a random person.
So I literally just scrolled through my email.
I'm like, bang, right there, and picked this guy out, and sent my tank to him, and had it set up, and sent the salt down to him, and the whole deal.
And then that alone, just having that contest and giving away a tank.
And then putting together this video for the tank.
Red Band put together this really cool video about it.
So these tank centers, because me talking about it on the podcast, started opening up all over the world.
To the point where now, when you sign up at a lot of tank centers, the first time you go there, they say, how'd you hear about us?
Whether it was through the internet, through books, or Joe Rogan.
You're one of the options.
Yeah, I'm one of the options on a lot of their questionnaires.
And that probably has had even more of an impact than hunting.
cameron hanes
Well, it's amazing.
I hear it all the time.
Well, people have told me...
You wouldn't be anything without Joe Rogan.
That's some comments that I've got.
joe rogan
See, there you go again.
You're concentrating on the negative ones.
cameron hanes
I know, but...
joe rogan
I wouldn't be bowhunting if it wasn't for you.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
So there you go.
I wouldn't be me if it wasn't for that.
I wouldn't be the me that I am now.
So there you go.
cameron hanes
Okay.
Well, I put it...
Because I was like, God, I know...
I don't know.
I think we've talked about it before, but this podcast gets to more people than CNN. Is that right?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
For sure.
cameron hanes
And I heard Jordan Peterson talk.
joe rogan
You heard me, Don Lemon.
unidentified
What?
That's good.
That's good, because I trust this more than CNN. You don't trust CNN? Oh, you're a redneck.
joe rogan
You're all on that Fox News tip.
cameron hanes
Oh, Fox News now.
That's where you get your news.
joe rogan
That's solid reporting.
That is legit.
That's Sean Hannity.
That guy, I trust him with everything.
cameron hanes
Yep, I hear ya.
And I heard Jordan, we're talking about his recent trajectory.
I mean, he's been, I'm assuming he's been brilliant in his whole life.
Well, in the last 18 months or two years or whatever.
And I think a lot of that is because of here.
So I put in my phone, I was like, I'm going to do some research on Joe Rogan before this.
I'm going to turn the tables on him.
I'm going to podcast him.
So I was like, putting in there Joe Rogan influence or Joe Rogan...
A fact or whatever.
And I couldn't find anything.
So I think I need to write something to quantify that.
But yeah, this gets to so many people.
joe rogan
It gets to a lot of people.
But in all honesty, not even just trying to be humble, but all I'm doing is talking about shit that's out there.
It's real simple.
It's like I'm not really...
Doing anything unusual other than that.
Just being open-minded, which I try very hard to do.
cameron hanes
Yeah, but when you say you just do this and just do that, nobody else does that.
They come in with these biases.
joe rogan
That's a problem.
cameron hanes
Yeah, you say you just do that.
That's a big thing.
joe rogan
I think people need to stop doing that.
I think that's a big part of the problem we have in this world.
And I was talking with Dan Harris from Good Morning America.
That's what he's on, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And he used a word that I love, a term that I love, toxic tribalism.
So, I mean, you see that with CNN versus Fox News.
It's like neither one of them want to look at things objectively.
Fox News has a very clear right-wing bias.
CNN has a very clear left-wing bias.
And they just go to war with each other.
And then the president's calling everybody fake news.
You know, it's...
It's hard to see what's really going on.
People want to look at their side, they want to defend their side, and they never want to say, okay, I see this guy's point.
But you've got to be able to see people's points.
I mean, that's one thing that I always say about vegans after I make fun of them.
I say, I understand why you would want to do that, and I think it's a compassionate choice.
I get it.
I totally understand.
Yeah, so do I. I do, and I support their decision.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
I think you should be real careful with your health if you're doing that, though, and I'm not bullshitting.
This is not me being facetious.
cameron hanes
Meathead.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm not being a meathead.
You should be careful with your health.
There's a lot of things that you should probably check.
B12 is a big one.
That's a huge issue with vegans.
Is B12 deficiencies.
And I think if you are a vegan, you should consider supplementing with things that you don't have a problem with eating, like maybe even some cricket protein or mollusks, like shellfish.
People should look into shellfish.
Shellfish, not only are they sustainable, but they're so primitive, they don't even have a neurological system.
They don't feel any fucking pain.
You could eat clams all day long.
They don't know what the fuck is going on.
We have this idea about clams because they do that, Because they close.
Oh, the poor little thing is just trying to hide.
cameron hanes
There's pearls in there.
joe rogan
No, that's oysters.
cameron hanes
Oh.
unidentified
Okay.
cameron hanes
I don't know anything about it either.
I know about bow hunting.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yes, you do.
Yes, you do.
But to me, meat tastes better.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You feel better, too.
cameron hanes
No, but as you were saying, I don't have a problem with vegans or their diet.
And I understand.
I mean...
If you think about killing an animal, nobody wants to kill animals, right?
I mean, that's not...
I don't know.
That's never...
joe rogan
You don't want to kill an animal for no reason.
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
You want the meat of the animal...
cameron hanes
The act of killing.
It is not enjoyable.
joe rogan
No.
cameron hanes
It's part of the process.
joe rogan
It's a weird sense of loss, right?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And so I get that they're like, well, I don't want to kill any animals.
I get it.
That's fine.
But, yeah, just having that...
You know, the biases that come with it is what causes problems.
joe rogan
Well, they're doing what they think is good to shame people who eat meat or attack people who eat meat and especially attack people who actively go out and kill the animals themselves because they think that somehow or another it will lessen the amount of animals that are killed.
I think the opposite happens.
I think it shores up people's aggression towards vegans.
They firmly plant their heels on the other side of the line.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they're like, fuck you, hippie, greenie, asshole, tree-hugging bitches.
Go eat your sprouts.
I'm going to go over here and eat a burger.
There's a lot of people that go out and eat burgers because of that.
You know, my friend Mike Hawkridge from BC, you met him?
Mike was dealing with people from Vancouver that were sending him hate mail because of wolves.
Now, where he lives, he lives in the real British Columbia.
Where there's fucking wolves and grizzly bears everywhere.
We found a wolf kill while we were up there.
It was pretty wild.
A wolf had got ahold of a moose calf and just tore it apart.
A pack of wolves.
Hair all over the place.
It's pretty fresh, too.
But he's shot a bunch of them.
And somehow or another, some group of people found out that he shot wolves.
And where he lives, you get an unlimited amount of wolf tags.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
They're trying to kill wolves as much as possible.
You can kill 100 wolves a day if you can, and that's totally legal.
Because they have ranchers up there, and I think one of his neighbors, a wolf, it was in the middle of the winter, a wolf got a hold of one of the cows, a bunch of wolves, a pack.
So these people are in their house, and they're listening to a pack of wolves tear apart a cow that's like 100 yards from their fucking bed.
Scary, freaky shit.
They live in the real wild.
So these people were sending him all these death threats.
And so he said, look, every time you guys send me one of these, I'm going to shoot a wolf in the guts.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Radio silence.
cameron hanes
They stopped?
joe rogan
Yeah.
He said to this lady, he said, every time you send me an email, I'm going to shoot a wolf in the guts.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Well, I don't know.
joe rogan
She's probably in front of her keyboard going, ah!
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
That was a tough one.
joe rogan
I'm going to kill a wolf, though.
cameron hanes
That was a tough one.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Yeah, you know, BC was...
They just outlawed grizzly hunting up there because of that.
They did a poll in, I think, Vancouver.
joe rogan
Not only that, they did a very limited email poll with about 3,000 participants.
cameron hanes
Right, yeah.
joe rogan
And 76% of 3,000 people...
They were opposed to grizzly bear hunting.
But I think if you're going to have any kind of a poll like that, you should have to have these people educated first as to what they're voting about.
Do you really understand what it's like up there?
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
Because if you talk to Mike, Mike shot a grizzly bear in the head from like 20 feet away as he was trying to get into his cabin.
They are fucking ferocious and they're huge and there's a lot of them.
There's no shortage of grizzly bears in British Columbia.
cameron hanes
No, but it's that whole education piece.
But that's, I mean, you could take that to even voting in our elections.
joe rogan
Sure.
cameron hanes
I mean, we need to educate people.
People need to be educated on the topics, not just hunting, but everything.
Yeah.
They can vote.
Their vote still counts.
joe rogan
It's like you can't tell people they can't vote because that's fucked up.
You can't say, well, you have to have a certain amount of education or you can't vote.
cameron hanes
No, but what they need to do is trust the people who do know.
Like up there, the biologist...
Who actually have boots on the ground and they know what Grizzly are doing and how many there are.
Let's go and trust those people.
joe rogan
It's hard to see when you're in Vancouver, though.
The problem is you're in Vancouver.
You're eating at a nice sushi restaurant.
You're hanging out with your friends.
You're going to the movies.
Everything's beautiful.
Vancouver's so nice.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's beautiful.
joe rogan
You look at the mountains.
You see Whistler off in the distance.
Oh, it's so pretty.
I don't want to kill a bear.
Don't kill the bears.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
But if you just go on a six-hour car ride, just keep going north, keep going north, get out of your car, and I want you to go for a two-mile hike into the woods.
Just go for a two-mile hike, and I want you to sit there for a day.
Just sit there for a day.
You're going to see some shit.
And you will realize, you will, oh, this is a different world.
This world is, this is a wild world.
Like these things out here, they don't give a shit if people are real or not.
They are there doing what they've always done.
The bear running around looking for shit to eat.
The animals are running around looking to get the fuck away from things that are trying to eat them.
And this is how they've always existed.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I know.
And it's just like the wolves killing the cow, you said, 20 feet from wherever they lived.
I mean, that's just what they do.
And that's what grizzlies do.
Grizzlies are going to kill...
If they can kill a moose calf or an elk calf or a deer fawn...
They're not wasting a bunch of energy chasing a full-grown animal around.
So they're using less energy, burning less calories.
They get an easy kill.
They get high protein.
That's just what they do.
But the reason why we need to kill them is they're never going to stop doing what they do.
We just need to control the numbers, so how often that's happening.
If that's happening too often because there's too many of them, well, then the moose and elk numbers go down.
It's this balancing act, and people will say, well, just let animals take care of themselves.
They always have been.
And it's like, No, we've always hunted.
It's just now that people are saying, well, we shouldn't hunt.
So they're trying to take man out of the equation now.
Man's always been in the equation as far as hunting.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think people have an idea about it based on the excess that people have committed.
I mean, people have committed some atrocities when it comes to animals in this country alone.
own.
Everyone's seen those stacks of buffalo heads and when they were doing market hunting in particular in the 1800s and many people attribute that to hunters erroneously, that's not really what it was.
What killed off all those animals was a thing called market hunting.
And this is back, people have to realize there was no refrigerators back then.
And so you weren't getting steaks and freezing them and there was not a lot of large scale agriculture back then either.
There was a few ranchers and farmers, but when people had all these animals that were out in the wild, and they could hire these people that were in the military that had just gotten done with the war, and they were good shots, this would be a good way to make a living.
Go out there and shoot some buffalo.
Bring back the tongues.
Buffalo tongue was a...
Like, they would shoot a giant buffalo and just take the tongue.
unidentified
Hmm.
joe rogan
They'd take the hides, and sometimes they would take the meat, and then they wiped out almost everything.
They wiped out most of the deer, most of the elk, most of the antelope, until guys like Teddy Roosevelt came along and went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hit the fucking brakes!
We've got to protect these animals.
We've got to protect this land.
We've got to protect these animals.
We've got to set up private, or public land, rather, where you can't do anything to it, where people could just...
Roam and hike and camp and fish and hunt and do whatever you want.
And we've got to make sure we protect these animal populations because they got down to some incredibly low number of elk at the turn of the century, right?
cameron hanes
Yeah, well, I mean, they almost wiped out buffalo completely.
I don't know what the elk got to, but I know, you know, as conservationists, we like to say that hunters are conservationists now, but...
So one of the figures that we share is that there's more animals now than there was a hundred years ago.
So I don't know what they were a hundred years ago, what the numbers were, but yeah, very low.
joe rogan
Not only that, there's more white-tailed deer today than when Columbus landed.
Although Columbus didn't really get here.
When Columbus landed in the Bahamas, there's more white-tailed deer here than now.
And part of that is because of farming, which is real weird.
Like a white-tailed deer is a weird animal.
They're kind of a farm animal in a lot of a way.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And it's almost like, you know, if you're doing it right as far as killing the older bucks, you're almost farming.
You know, you're not harvesting when they're young.
You're waiting until they're mature.
And so it's almost like, you know, you're letting that crop age, essentially.
joe rogan
What is this, Jamie?
In 1910, the U.S. Forest Service estimated there were only between 500 and 1,000 elk in Colorado.
Holy shit!
cameron hanes
And now there's 100 and what, 25,000?
joe rogan
Oh, I'm sure.
cameron hanes
I mean, 150,000?
I don't know.
joe rogan
There's a fuckload.
cameron hanes
There's a lot more than that.
joe rogan
The number's a fuckload.
There's 10 million.
Okay, it says the elk population in North America stood at about 10 million animals before European settlers came and systematic wholesale hunting began.
Wow.
That's amazing.
Colorado became famous for his trophy hunting and European gentlemen traveled here to try their luck.
Sir George Gore.
I heard that guy was a cunt.
I'm just making that up.
cameron hanes
He's a trophy hunter.
joe rogan
What a dick.
cameron hanes
That's road hunting.
joe rogan
He only took prime hides and large antlers and left the meat to rot.
Oh boy, what a bad person.
cameron hanes
That sentence right there, that's what people still think happens.
I don't know anybody who ever does.
That's illegal, first of all.
That's poaching.
joe rogan
That's a good thing to point out.
It is illegal to not take the meat.
Not only is it illegal to not take the meat, you have to take the neck meat in Colorado.
You have to cut out the neck meat.
cameron hanes
All the edible meat.
joe rogan
All the edible meat.
cameron hanes
Even between the ribs.
I mean, there's a little, I don't know about if that's the law in Colorado.
I know in Alaska, you kill a moose, you're even taking that meat in between the ribs.
I mean, you're taking all edible meat there.
And so people say, well, are you one of those trophy hunters or you just don't take the head and leave it to rot?
It's like, you can't do that.
joe rogan
Why would you do that anyway?
It's so stupid.
cameron hanes
I wouldn't do it, but it's illegal anyway.
joe rogan
If you walk down the street, if you eat steak, and you walk down the street, and you saw, like, for some reason, someone had put coolers of prime rib eyes just sitting there, you'd be like, what the fuck is this here for?
You'd look around, is there anybody here?
I gotta take this.
What is this?
You can't just leave this here.
You left it here to rot.
cameron hanes
So why would you do that when you're hunting?
joe rogan
That's just you finding it, right?
Probably you would not eat it, now that I think about it.
You'd be like, what is this, a trap?
cameron hanes
I get the point you're making.
joe rogan
The point I was making is if you go through all the effort to go hunt, and you do eat meat, of course you're going to eat the meat.
Not only that, the meat you're eating is incredibly precious.
Elk meat is incredibly precious.
It's so delicious.
cameron hanes
Well, here's what I know.
When we go hunting, and I can speak for myself, I'm sure I can speak for you too.
joe rogan
Speak for me.
cameron hanes
When you go hunting, you bring back all the meat you can.
You eat all the meat you can of that animal.
You like sharing it.
The typical, I'll just say American, but waste 40% of their food.
This is what they buy.
You know how, oh, I'm done now in the garbage type thing?
So hunters, I know I don't do that.
If I kill a bull and I bring all that meat home, 40% of that is not going in the garbage.
You know what I mean?
So it's because we have that connection with the animal.
To me, it'd be...
I don't know if I'm thinking about it to be disrespectful, but there's so much value in it, I would never throw it in the garbage.
You know what I mean?
But when you buy it at a store, whatever.
I'm not saying people are putting 40% of prime rib in the garbage, but just as a rule, we waste a lot of food.
joe rogan
I think it would be a good thing for every single human being to grow some vegetables, and if you eat meat, once in your life, kill an animal.
I think everyone should do it.
I really do.
There was an article that I tweeted today.
I forget the subject, the title of it, rather.
But it was something along the lines of, it's not healthy to hide from the fact that there's death involved in eating meat.
I did a terrible job of paraphrasing that.
You find what that title is?
It's an article.
Okay.
We shouldn't hide the gory details of how meat reaches our plate.
cameron hanes
Right.
Are those chickens?
unidentified
What are those?
joe rogan
Yeah.
And I think that's very, very important.
And I think that, like, what I'm looking at right there is fucking gross.
cameron hanes
That's their life.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's fucked up because I eat chickens, but I don't eat my chickens.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, someone said, do you eat those chickens?
I'm like, no, those aren't like my pets.
It's weird, right?
But I'll eat the shit out of some chicken.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
But when you think of it like that, I mean, so when we're looking at this picture, I know people listening to the podcast can't see the picture, but I mean...
joe rogan
We're looking at an enormous warehouse.
I mean, enormous.
It looks like several football fields long, and it's filled with chickens that are just stuffed into these rows.
cameron hanes
On top of each other, right?
And that's their life until they get killed.
And when you think of that, okay, would I rather do that, or would I rather procure my own meat hunting?
You know, everybody would say, that's not right.
And I believe hunting is a noble way of procuring me.
Yeah.
And I think when you look at that, but people don't see that they don't think about that when they order their, you know, chick chicken nuggets.
They're not thinking about that.
No.
joe rogan
Just hungry.
cameron hanes
Just hungry.
joe rogan
It's just too easy to get food.
I really think it's too easy to get food.
That's why we're such fatos.
That's a big problem.
But it's also too easy psychologically because we just don't have any...
I think you should have a connection if you're eating a living thing.
It just seems...
It just seems like you should understand what it is.
Just for your own mind.
Just for a sense of balance.
And 97% of Americans eat meat.
And something like 65% of vegans when they get drunk eat meat.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, some crazy number.
It might be higher than that.
I think I read it was like 84% of vegans.
See, I'm just making up numbers at this point.
cameron hanes
That's fine.
It doesn't matter.
joe rogan
That might have been a tweet I read.
Somebody might have just made that up.
cameron hanes
Who's going to audit us?
So a vegan drunk.
Yeah, they get drunk.
So meat's like an ex-girlfriend.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Right?
joe rogan
It's like an ex-girlfriend, yeah.
You get drunk if you're lonely.
unidentified
You're texting your ex-girlfriend and you're eating a hot dog.
cameron hanes
Is that right?
joe rogan
Yeah, same thing.
Yeah, exactly the same thing.
cameron hanes
Okay, I got it.
jamie vernon
It's a little over a third that confessed to eating meat when they're drunk.
joe rogan
Oh, then it's 100%, because three-quarters of them are liars.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Surprising number of drunk vegetarians secretly eat meat.
cameron hanes
That is an awesome picture right there.
I love that picture.
joe rogan
The problem with this thing is this is a third of people that they asked.
And British vegetarians.
Oh, British people.
It's a totally different animal.
They fucking hate hunters.
cameron hanes
They love saying cunt.
unidentified
Oh, did I see effing cunt in there, actually?
Did you say that?
joe rogan
Really?
cameron hanes
I thought I did.
joe rogan
I've been looking for it.
cameron hanes
Oh, no.
Fleshing out.
joe rogan
I like how you said effing cunt, but you didn't say fucking cunt.
cameron hanes
No, that's a cuss word.
joe rogan
Yeah, they do love to say cunt.
But they're the most delusional.
South Americans are super delusional.
unidentified
Because there's no hunting there.
joe rogan
Exactly.
cameron hanes
No hunting.
joe rogan
Brazil, for some strange reason.
unidentified
I know.
cameron hanes
I get a lot of hate from Brazil.
joe rogan
But they love me.
unidentified
You go to Brazil, they invented the chuhascaria.
joe rogan
Chuhascarias are the shit, man.
Did we go to one when we went to Brazil?
cameron hanes
Is that where they threw the plates in the mall?
unidentified
Yes!
cameron hanes
Right?
joe rogan
Oh, that's right!
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah!
joe rogan
They threw the plates.
Yeah, they fucking chuck plates like frisbees and shatter them.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
They know how to party in Brazil.
unidentified
They do.
cameron hanes
And it's just meat on meat on meat.
unidentified
Meat on meat.
cameron hanes
It was beautiful.
joe rogan
You get a card.
It's got green on one side and red on the other.
A lot of people have been to these, like Fogo de Chão is a great one that's here in LA and all over the country.
But that's what they eat!
They're famous for meat!
cameron hanes
When you're done with the meat, you give them the red card.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Right?
joe rogan
Yeah, you flip that card, I'll be like, you're done.
It's green on one side, red on the other.
Yeah, you tap out.
Yeah, we go to town.
Nobody can fuck with Ari Shafir when it comes to that place.
Nobody.
cameron hanes
Really?
joe rogan
No, I've never seen...
Look, when me and Ari go to eat, generally speaking, I'm more of a glutton than him.
I'll eat more than him.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But not at that place.
cameron hanes
Really?
joe rogan
There's something about, like, all you can eat.
I think maybe it's some, like, because his dad was in the Holocaust or something like that.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, or he's just, like, because it's free, because it's, like, you could eat, he just won't stop.
I've never seen anything like it.
I go, like, where are you putting all this fucking food?
Everyone's done.
Joey Diaz is done.
I'm done.
Eddie Bravo's done.
We're done.
We're just sitting there like this, like, ugh.
I'm like, you're still on green?
You're still on green?
He's like, I'm still on green.
And the guy will come over, you got lamb chops?
Lamb chops, yes, bring the lamb chops.
I've never seen anything like it.
cameron hanes
That stuff is so good though, especially in Brazil there.
joe rogan
Yeah, they know how to do it.
And they have grass-fed meat over there, too.
They're not fucking around with the corn-fed and all that.
They don't have the sick, fat cows that we have over here.
But it is weird how you get a lot of hate from people over there.
But it's because of the propaganda that And the negative aspects of trophy hunting.
Like when you see a guy standing there with a dead elephant or some shit like that.
Like, why the fuck would you kill an elephant?
Like that kind of stuff in people's mind.
Or a giraffe.
Why the fuck would you kill a giraffe?
Like people have this idea that these people just go over there to kill things.
And so this is what trophy hunting is.
So they see you with an elk.
Like, oh, you piece of shit.
Why just go over there and shoot that thing?
Like, no, this is my food for a year.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're going to that goddamn steakhouse and you keep that thing on green.
What do you think you're doing?
You're killing.
You're killing with your credit card.
cameron hanes
I know.
Well, all we can do is try to educate and share the lifestyle.
I think it's important...
To be leaders and how we share that.
Because I see things that I wish weren't shared sometimes.
I mean, I've even made mistakes.
I'm not trying to say that I'm dialed in and I never make a mistake on what I post or whatever.
But I just think we need to be stewards of hunting.
And if we do it right, we're not going to get everybody.
We're not going to educate everybody because there's some that just won't listen.
But we can make some inroads.
joe rogan
I think we have and I think it's important to relay experiences because I think there's things to be learned From a lot of experiences, you know, like talking to you and talking to Courtney Dolwalter about just ultra marathons and endurance running.
There's something to be learned from that about the kind of mindset that it takes to do that.
I think having these conversations with you guys has changed the way I look at those things.
Like, fuck, man, before I met you, I never ran.
I'm running all the time now.
Dude, I run all the time.
cameron hanes
I don't know.
You look slim.
I mean, how much do you weigh?
joe rogan
Like 196, 195. Oh, so you're about the same.
No, I'm a little lighter.
cameron hanes
Oh, are you?
joe rogan
I was up to like 204 when I was a fatso.
cameron hanes
Oh, okay.
joe rogan
That was the fattest I've ever been.
cameron hanes
I thought you looked slimmer.
joe rogan
I'm a little, maybe a little slimmer.
Maybe I'm like 195 or 194. 194 is when I'm pretty lean.
I've got a full six-pack.
unidentified
I look fat.
joe rogan
At 194. When I get to 200, that's when I go, okay, we better start doing the fasting again.
When I really get into my intermittent fasting, I'll spend either 14 or 16 hours without eating in a day.
I only eat for like 8 or 10 hours in a day.
cameron hanes
I eat about every 30 minutes.
I'm actually starving.
joe rogan
Are you starting right now?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
See, but you're in a different thing, though, because I'm eating mostly fat, and a lot of guys are on that carnivore diet now.
When we had that Sean Baker in here, that doctor, the Bells, Chris Bell and Mark Bell, those guys are both on the carnivore diet now.
They don't eat anything but meat.
All day.
cameron hanes
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, Mark says he's never felt better.
So he's thin.
He looks ripped.
If you look at his Instagram page, he's fucking jacked.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Shredded.
He's also on steroids.
That probably helps.
But he looks good.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Well, it's...
I don't know.
One of my favorites...
joe rogan
Yeah, look at the pictures.
Jamie just goes, Jesus Christ.
Yeah, look at him.
Look at that picture.
cameron hanes
Oh my God.
joe rogan
All he's eating is meat.
All he's eating is meat.
Jacked!
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Jacked!
cameron hanes
Stud.
joe rogan
Plus steroids.
A little bit of steroids there.
But whatever.
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Who's that?
Mark Bell?
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He's a fucking animal.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I watched the...
joe rogan
Bigger, Stronger, Faster?
cameron hanes
Is that what it was?
Yeah.
His brother was on there, right?
joe rogan
Three brothers, and one of them died.
One of them died.
They hit a drug problem.
He was a pro wrestler.
cameron hanes
Yeah, that's the one I watched.
Yeah, it was...
joe rogan
Powerful documentary.
unidentified
It was.
cameron hanes
It was.
It was pretty sad.
I mean, he wanted, you know, his brother wanted to make it be something, just like a lot of us, you know, and, you know, it's hard to say.
joe rogan
Well, he ran into the problem that I've seen many people run into, those goddamn prescription pills.
They're so scary.
They're one of the scariest things that are in modern society, and it's something that's not talked about enough.
You only hear it talked about from family members of people that have lost people or close friends of people that have lost people.
But it's a giant problem in this country.
We're losing thousands of people every day to pain pills.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Well, I put something up not long ago about suicide, and it was amazing.
How many people sent me messages?
I mean, how many people are affected or just are dealing with negative thoughts of their own and little mini battles.
And it's just like that one post.
I don't know.
I think people just need to know that there's people out there that care.
But I don't know how when they get in that cycle of pills, I don't really know.
I'm not a doctor.
I don't know how that works.
I don't know what they're dealing with.
I just know that, you know, social media can be used.
It can be irritating sometimes, but man, it can be good, especially for people like that, just able to reach out and maybe, you know, get some support or encouragement or something.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, for someone that they admire like you, that's gigantic.
If they can read something like that, sometimes that's all people need, just a little wind in their sail.
Just a little something.
cameron hanes
I'm not saying I did anything.
It was in the news.
There was a quarterback up at Washington State that killed himself.
He was going to be the starting quarterback on the football team.
21 years old, and he shot himself a few weeks ago.
I didn't want to say that, well...
Because I don't want to say that, well, it's because as an athlete, that's why anybody cares, you know?
But it's anybody.
It's any person who's 21 years old.
I'm thinking, what a tragedy that is.
But it just, that was in the news, so it happened.
And so that's why I put it up.
And for no, I can't do anything.
It's not like I'm...
I just wanted people to be aware and just have that number to call in case there was a 21-year-old feeling that exact same way.
And this is seemingly some kid who had everything.
I mean, a college quarterback.
And it just breaks my heart to think that...
He would get to that point where killing himself was the answer.
joe rogan
It's even harder for younger people because they don't have a lot of life experiences and they don't know that a guy like you or I who's lived a long time and have seen a lot of shit, you've gone through your ups and downs and when you hit a down you go, well...
This sucks, but I know it's gonna get better.
Just gotta figure out why it sucks.
Address why it sucks.
Apologize if you need to.
Correct whatever the issue is that's making you feel like shit.
Pull yourself out of it.
Do a bunch of positive things.
Next thing you know, you're gonna be okay again.
And sometimes when you're 21 years old, you think the world's over.
I mean, I remember when my girlfriend dumped me when I was 18. I was so fucking bummed out.
I couldn't imagine.
I couldn't imagine living without her.
I was like, I can't believe that this is over.
I can't believe.
You're so devastated because you're fucking, you're a baby.
You're an 18-year-old baby.
You don't know jack shit.
But when you get older, and you've had more life experiences and more things, you get more perspective, and you kind of understand, like, what this feeling is, this bad feeling, and you just know, well, hey, I just gotta get the fuck out of the house, I gotta go hang out with my friends, I gotta go do a bunch of positive things, go hit the gym, take a yoga class, do something fun, and then everything's gonna be okay.
You realize, hey, you know, Life's not perfect.
There's no such thing as a perfect life.
It doesn't exist.
You're gonna have ups, you're gonna have downs, but when you're 21 years old, it's very difficult to see that.
And also, who knows what else is going on in his life, whether it's pills or whether it's head trauma.
A lot of football players wind up killing themselves.
It's not a coincidence.
It's directly related to head drama.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I'm not sure.
I don't want to speculate on any of that.
I don't either.
joe rogan
It's horrible.
cameron hanes
I get a lot of...
I just...
When you said, well, you go hang out with your friends, it sometimes...
Because I've been in certain groups where even my friends aren't positive.
You know what I mean?
So you're like, that even makes it worse, they can.
So, I mean, that's where I see the positives of social media.
And I wish I could respond to everybody who sends me messages and just say, hey, you know, and it's cliche, keep hammering or whatever, but I know I get inspiration from people online.
And if...
I get a shout-out.
It feels good.
unidentified
Sure.
cameron hanes
It doesn't mean anything.
joe rogan
The Rock wears a t-shirt.
cameron hanes
I don't know if it means...
It doesn't mean anything.
joe rogan
It does mean something.
cameron hanes
But it does to me.
And so I just know what it's like to be in a small town and to not...
I'm not saying I didn't have any positive friends or whatever, but I know what it'd feel like to not have anybody to really lean on.
And so I try to think about...
Maybe people like I was.
And man, I just think we can, I don't know, together, shit, we can do a lot of positive things.
I just, like I said, it breaks my heart to think of people living negative each day.
joe rogan
I agree with you and I think that's one of the things that social media can do that's positive and also podcasts can do that's positive.
There's people that are listening to this conversation right now that they're taking comfort from it.
They might be either stuck in a shitty job or they might be alone and they're here with us.
They're here hanging out and they realize there's people like us out there.
There's friendly, positive people out there.
Even if you're alone, At least you're not around negative twats.
There's a lot of negative people around, and it's unfortunate that they're negative.
I wish you could fix them all.
But sometimes life gives you these lessons in the form of disastrous lives that you witness.
And you see these disastrous lives and you just go, oh my god, I gotta get the fuck away from this crazy asshole and live my life in a more positive, productive way because I see what can happen if you blame the world for all your problems and all you do is hate and you hate on people that are successful and you hate on people that are...
Whatever.
Wealthy, good looking.
Pick the thing.
Girls that are thin.
Whatever the thing is that you hate on.
There's so many people out there that waste all of their energy doing that.
And if you're around them, you can't fix them.
It's so hard to fix people.
But what you can do is see what they're doing that's so negative and Just completely degrades the quality of their life and just don't do that.
Recognize.
Recognize that this is not the way to live and then go listen to a podcast with some positive people and say, look at this guy.
This guy's out there Eating healthy, doing good things.
He lost 15 pounds.
She went running and decided to start doing marathons, and he did this, and this guy's building a fucking house.
You can find a lot of positive examples of people online today.
cameron hanes
That's one of the reasons why I'm so drawn to ultra-running.
I mean, because whether you like running or not, the people that do that are some great, positive people.
They're savages.
Oh, but they're also...
You get so used to winning those many battles in a long run.
I mean, you have to...
And you get strength from each other.
So, at the finish line or during the race, is you can get a bond.
There's a saying, you know, he who sheds his blood with me will be my brother.
And it's like, it's not...
That's probably derived from war and I get that it's not like a war or anything like that but it's going through a mini battle and when you do that with somebody and you share that experience you get that connection and it's like and it's why even though I don't know Courtney that well I know What she does.
And I really look up to her ability to just be a beast.
And that whole environment, the ultra running environment and community is empowering for me for sure.
And that's why I love even just being around people like that.
It just makes you better.
joe rogan
Well, they're exceptional.
Those are exceptional people.
They have an exceptional mind.
To be able to endure something like a 238-mile race through the Moab Desert, you've got to be something special.
There's a little thing in the back of your head that says, why don't you sit down?
I want to just quit.
Enough's enough.
We already ran five miles.
That's enough, man.
You ran a marathon.
That is enough.
You ran two marathons.
You sit the fuck down.
We just sit the fuck down and take a nap.
But you have to be able to shut that off, and most people can't shut that off.
They just can't, you know?
cameron hanes
It's tough.
It's amazing.
I mean, my brother was with me on that last one.
And it's weird to share an experience like that with somebody because you can be similar, but in the course of something like three days like that, you're in low points at different times.
You know what I mean?
And so it's really hard.
It's really hard to win each of those battles because at one time when you might, I don't know, it's just, it seems like that'd be easier, and I think in some respects it is, but it's, man, it's tough.
It's tough all the way around.
joe rogan
So when you're going through a three-day, 238-mile run, Does it...
It gets bad at certain times where you just feel like shit.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then if you keep going, it gets better?
And then it gets bad again?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then it gets better.
cameron hanes
Oh, yeah, yeah.
You're up and down, up and down the whole time.
joe rogan
But you know that if you keep going, even when you feel like dog shit, you'll eventually break through and start feeling okay again.
cameron hanes
I don't know.
There's no guarantee.
joe rogan
There's no guarantee.
cameron hanes
No, there's no guarantee.
You hope...
joe rogan
Have you ever gone through a whole long race and felt like dog shit the entire time?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which one of those?
cameron hanes
Well, like the 24-hour run, you know, because that's usually like my first tough one of the year.
It's in June, so I haven't really prepared for it enough.
No, because I'm always after spring bear.
And I haven't been training because I've been up in bear camp and doing whatever.
So that's always one where I know I'm just pretty much going to be miserable the whole time.
There's going to be no light at the end of the tunnel, other than when the 24 hours is up.
So that one I know.
I'm just going to have to grind it out.
That's where I'm like, this is one day out of my life.
joe rogan
Just do it.
cameron hanes
I'm just going to be miserable.
You know, on Moab, that one started off and I felt terrible right out of the, I mean, I felt, I was like, we were, God, I don't want to think, like 19 or maybe 15 miles in, something like that at an aid station.
I'm going, this is not good.
joe rogan
15 miles in?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
What's crazy is you were running a marathon a day.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
So why was 15 miles so bad?
cameron hanes
Um, I don't know.
There's sometimes when you, do you ever go on a run and your legs just feel heavy?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
And you just don't feel good?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
So it was that.
That's what it was.
I just, I was like, I wanted to be fresh and I wanted to feel light on my feet and I wanted to get out there.
And I was like, it's not a good sign when I didn't because, you know, we just essentially started the race and it was hot and I had run out of water already one time.
And my legs felt heavy, and so it wasn't looking good.
And then Courtney was way out ahead, and they were saying...
I didn't really know who she was at that time, so me and my brother Taylor, we were thinking, well, in the 70s would win the race.
So I thought, well, I want to go out and aim for finishing in the 70s.
joe rogan
When you say 70s, what do you mean?
cameron hanes
70 hours?
So I figured, because what usually won Bigfoot was high 60s.
joe rogan
And Bigfoot's 205?
cameron hanes
205. And so this is close to 35 miles further.
So we just figured, well, probably 70s is going to get it done.
And so she went out, and there's a couple other guys with her, I think.
And they went out pretty hard.
And, you know, there's updates on where they were.
And I didn't know at that time she was the American record holder for the 24-hour run.
She'd run 160 miles, I think, in 24 hours.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ!
cameron hanes
And so...
I was like, oh, well, they just went too fast, you know, because I'd done that before, like a Bigfoot the year before, and I thought, well, they'll come back, you know, so meaning we'd catch up or they'd come back.
And I think the guys with her ended up dropping off a little bit, and then she never came back.
joe rogan
Well, one of them dropped out totally.
He tried to keep up with her, and he couldn't, and he wound up dropping out totally.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
She's a monster.
She's eating nachos and candy.
That's what's crazy.
Drinking beer.
All these people are on all these diets and watching their macronutrients.
cameron hanes
No, but I did want to say that because I listened to you talk to her about that.
Excuse me.
I've seen a lot of comments about that, but what you've got to keep in mind is her training.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
So you can't say, well, I run 15 miles a week and I'm going to eat nachos and beer.
joe rogan
Right.
cameron hanes
So she's running 120 miles a week probably.
You can eat pretty much whatever you want.
joe rogan
Right.
Well, I get that, but it's also like I was asking her about the nutritional content.
Of her food.
Are you really monitoring how much protein you get versus phytonutrients and minerals?
cameron hanes
No, no.
joe rogan
Just gutting it out.
cameron hanes
She probably just needs calories.
It doesn't even matter how she gets them.
Just needs calories to sustain herself.
joe rogan
I would just think for just the cells of your body, you would need more nutrients.
I mean, who knows?
She's obviously a fucking savage.
But who knows, if she really monitored her diet and ate super healthy, she might be better.
cameron hanes
Maybe.
joe rogan
Which is just terrifying.
cameron hanes
Maybe.
Yeah, she's amazing.
joe rogan
She's so normal, too.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You hang out with her?
Like, when she did the podcast, she's just fun and laughing.
Like, you would never imagine that she's just like...
Elite ultra-marathon runner.
I would think you'd have to be super stoic and intense.
cameron hanes
No.
And when you see her, she's wearing, it looks like basketball shorts.
joe rogan
Yeah, exactly.
cameron hanes
Big shorts.
It's not like...
You know, you see some of these track athletes, and they got the tight little shorts on, and the singlet, and they're like, you know, she's just like, with kind of a baggy shirt and baggy shorts, and then just crushing people.
joe rogan
Crazy!
cameron hanes
Yeah, she's...
joe rogan
I love that, though.
I love outliers.
I love people that come along that don't make any sense.
They're like, what the fuck?
Like, she's so much better than everybody else.
She won that 238 mile race by 22 miles?
cameron hanes
Something like that, yeah.
joe rogan
22 miles ahead of the second place winner.
unidentified
Yeah.
And the guy who got second is a stud.
joe rogan
Fucking animal!
The guy's an animal.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And she was 22 miles ahead of him.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
Imagine getting whooped, not just whooped, but whooped 22 miles ahead by someone who's eating nachos and drinking beer and eating candy.
I just love that.
I love someone who doesn't make any sense, who's just so much better, and it's just like, wow, we gotta fucking throw a monkey wrench into this whole idea.
cameron hanes
The only thing I got on anybody is, can they pack out an elk?
joe rogan
Nah, you got that on them.
If that was the race, you'd fuck them all up.
cameron hanes
But what I like about her also is I flew home the other day.
I can't remember where it was from, but I flew over.
In the Cascades of Oregon, there's a Middle Sister, North Sister, South Sister, and then Bachelors where everybody goes and skis, and then Broken Tops right there.
So I filmed it, and I'm like...
I tagged my brother, Taylor, and I'm like, hey, can we knock off all five of these peaks in 24 hours?
And it would be...
I mean, it would be a test, you know?
And she commented and said she'd join us.
unidentified
Wow.
cameron hanes
She wants to come do it.
So, I mean, I just love that.
I don't even...
She's amazing, but that type of...
I mean, I guess that kind of goes hand in hand with the eating whatever you want is also doing whatever you want.
You know, like a lot of these elite athletes, they would be like, have a schedule of races and my training and this and that, you know, whatever.
I like that she would just say, yeah, I'll do that.
It's not a race.
It's just, we're just having fun.
Or just a test.
It's an unofficial test.
And for her to want to join in, that's probably what I love the most about her.
joe rogan
And are there established trails that you guys can run over all those peaks?
cameron hanes
We did the South Sister and the Middle Sister last year, and now it's getting off the South Sister towards the Middle Sister is sketchy.
There's no trails, no.
joe rogan
Oh, so you're just running through the woods.
cameron hanes
There's no trees.
It's on the side of the mountain, so it's like shale.
joe rogan
Oh, even more sketchy.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I'd rather run over trees.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Sort of.
cameron hanes
No, you would, because if there's trees there, there's solid ground there.
joe rogan
Right.
cameron hanes
So with the rocks up there, you don't know what's going to happen.
joe rogan
But you've got to be stepping over shit if there's trees there.
You might run into a bunch of places where all the trees have fallen down.
cameron hanes
Generally, yeah.
I mean, there can be windfall in there, but generally you can get on an animal trail and find your way through.
But when it's just rocks, that's probably the most sketchy.
Just because there's a...
I don't know, a thousand pound rock sitting there.
It could just be balanced perfectly.
You might step on it.
There's no guarantee that those rocks are staying there.
It falls all the time.
With rocks in that type of country, super steep, it's part of it.
joe rogan
It's fascinating to me that that is the appeal of sheep hunting to a lot of people, is that it's so incredibly dangerous.
That being up in those high peaks and stepping on shale and on these crazy peaks where to the left is just a steep drop-off, to the right is a steep drop-off.
You have a very narrow place to navigate.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's, you know, sheep hunting, they say it's not the animal that's the most wary, it's just the country that makes it.
So, I mean, they're expensive, the hunts, but it's just where they live is the draw.
I think with the bow, definitely a tough animal.
With a rifle, mostly it's just kind of getting in, if you can get your body within range, you can usually get one done.
But it's just where they live.
joe rogan
Yeah, when Ben O'Brien and...
Green Tree, we're hunting tar.
It's a similar thing in New Zealand.
They're in these crazy peaks and super dangerous, sketchy territory.
It's fascinating to me how people get addicted to incredibly difficult things.
They do it, they say, fuck, I'm never doing this again.
God, this is terrible.
And then they get back and a couple weeks later they're like, shit, I want to go back.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's...
God, I don't know what type of analogy to make, but, you know, if you...
When you've done, say, maybe ultras or marathons, it's really hard to get excited for a 5K. You know what I mean?
joe rogan
When you do your keep hammer in 5K, how boring is that for you?
cameron hanes
To me, it's more about the people, then.
unidentified
Right.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's not...
For me, I'm not...
joe rogan
That stupid race is the reason why I started running.
I couldn't believe how hard it was to do with zero running, folks.
Zero.
I ran zero, and then I ran a 5k.
At the end of that, I was like, okay, I gotta start running.
cameron hanes
Shit.
Yeah, and it feels great now, right?
joe rogan
It does.
It does.
cameron hanes
There's nothing that feels better to me than being able to run.
I mean...
joe rogan
You know what's crazy is my endurance for kickboxing is way better.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean way better.
Way better.
Like I could do a hard three minute round no problem.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it's just from running these fucking hills.
It just changes your lung capacity.
cameron hanes
Yeah, your lungs just expand and contract and you just...
You're just getting more oxygen in there, I guess, huh?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, you've seen those trails that I'm running on, too.
They're so steep.
So much of it is just pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing.
It's like you're sprinting up these hills, and your body's just used to those bursts.
And so now, when I go crazy in the heavy bag, and then the belt will go off, and I'm like...
cameron hanes
Go good.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
It's amazing.
cameron hanes
And it does so much for your legs, too.
Oh, yeah.
People always ask, you know, what I do for legs.
And it's like, I just run mountains.
I mean, and it's, you know.
joe rogan
Yeah, there was a famous kickboxer from Montreal.
His name was Jean-Yves Theriot.
He was like the most scary kickboxer in the world in the PKA karate days.
And all he did was he would run stairs.
That was the big workout.
He wrote a book on training and what it takes to be a world champion.
One of the things that he's saying is you've got to run stairs.
He's like, running stairs has been the best thing for his kicking power, for his endurance.
I remember thinking that.
He was talking about how it just put inches on his thighs and it radically increased his lung capacity and kicking power.
cameron hanes
Speaking of endurance, I don't know if we were, but I will, but Francis Ngannou, he got gassed out.
joe rogan
He did.
Well, he tried to take Stipe out in the first round.
That was his thought, was that Stipe's not going to be able to survive.
cameron hanes
When it didn't happen, it's not good.
joe rogan
He's fucked.
And he doesn't know how to wrestle that well.
He doesn't have a long background in martial arts at all.
And Stipe was a very good college wrestler, and obviously a bad motherfucker.
God.
He took some hard shots, too.
cameron hanes
He did.
joe rogan
You know, that's the thing about Stipe.
It's not just that he knows how to fight.
He's just fucking tough.
There's a bunch of shit going on there.
It's experience.
It's just sheer toughness and grit and determination.
And he also knows how to ride out bad moments.
Like, Francis had never had a bad moment.
He didn't know what the fuck to do.
cameron hanes
I think most people, I know you didn't, but I think most people had kind of assumed, oh, Francis is going to win this fight.
joe rogan
I thought it's very possible Francis could win the fight.
I thought it was very possible that Francis could just nuke him in the first round.
He's just so scary.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Yeah, just takes one.
joe rogan
No, I've never seen anyone in all of my history of watching MMA that's so terrifying with one punch.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
And he's just punching, too.
His kicks are, you know, they're okay.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But he's not like...
You know, he's not Edson Barboza or someone who could put you to sleep with one kick.
He's not kicking people.
He's just moving towards you, throwing a few kicks, maybe.
But what he's trying to do is hit you with those giant fucking canned hams that he calls fists.
cameron hanes
And even when he was so gassed, he could barely do anything.
I was thinking, still one big, tired, heavy arm could do it.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
100%.
That guy still has unbelievable potential.
If he could get it together, but what he needs to do, and this is critical, He needs to work on his ground game, needs to work on his wrestling, and he needs to be with a real top-flight MMA camp.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Who trains him now?
joe rogan
He trains with the guy who found him.
I forget the gentleman's name.
But the guy's done an amazing job of building his skills up in five years.
And the thing is, Francis is so goddamn good that most people he spars with, most people he fights with are fucked.
But he runs to the top of the food chain, a guy like Stipe, Stipe can avoid all the dangerous stuff, drag him into deep water, get him diminished, diminish his endurance and his ability, and then overwhelm him, which is what Stipe did.
Yeah.
Francis can learn from that.
He can learn from that.
He can learn from that and he can get better at all those areas that he had problems with.
cameron hanes
I'm so tired.
joe rogan
Yeah, but the endurance is something you can work on.
You can work on all those things.
I just don't know how...
I'm sure he worked hard.
I'm absolutely sure.
But I don't know how hard he was pushed.
So there's a difference between working hard and being pushed.
If he's training with a guy like Cain Velasquez, for instance, prime time Cain Velasquez, if Cain's in his prime, Cain's taking him down left and right.
He's going to try to have to get up all the time.
He's doing rounds with Cain.
You're going through hell.
You're going through five minutes of hell, and when that bell goes off to end the five minutes of hell, you're just like, holy shit.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, you watch the training camps with Daniel Cormier and Luke Rockhold and Cain Velasquez, some of the footage.
There's a reason why those guys are so goddamn good, because iron sharpens iron.
Those guys are in there, world champions, going at it with each other on a daily basis.
And because of that, that's what turned them into those fucking monsters that they are today.
Francis is just a physical freak.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But if he was in that camp, holy shit.
cameron hanes
Yeah, that'd be amazing.
It'd be amazing to see what he could do.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
The problem is sparring with that guy.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
If Francis spars the way they spar, because DC... Because they go hard, don't they?
They go a little hard.
cameron hanes
Isn't that kind of maybe too hard?
joe rogan
That's the argument.
There's two arguments.
There's one argument that going through that is why they're so successful in world championship fights.
That they know what the fire feels like.
The other thing is that they get injured a lot.
That camp gets injured a lot.
They're so fucking good!
Look who they got!
Habib Nurmagomedov, Luke Rockhold, Daniel Cormier, Kane motherfucking Velasquez.
You can't argue with that.
One camp in San Jose has some of the best fighters that have ever done the sport.
Then on top of that, Josh Thompson.
They had Josh Koscheck for a while, and he was at the top of his game.
Some fucking killers have come from AKA. So you could look at it two ways.
You could say, one, they're beating each other up too much, or two, that's what you gotta do.
That's what you gotta do to be a world champion.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's hard to say.
joe rogan
I was still, to this day, when Kane was in his prime, I never saw a heavyweight like that before.
Ever.
The fucking endurance that guy had was off the charts.
cameron hanes
For a big guy.
joe rogan
It's not like nothing.
You would see guys just be overwhelmed.
They couldn't imagine how the fuck he could do this.
Like, where's he getting...
And the second round would come around, they'd have this look in their face, and Kane would just be like, like he just woke up.
Like, he's not even started to really sweat yet.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
And then he beat the shit out of him for the second round, beat the shit out of him for the third.
They would just wilt under the pressure.
cameron hanes
Yeah, you see those fights were, I mean, not him, but I mean, even now were...
It's just an onslaught.
You're just like, man, you feel bad for it.
Who was that the other night?
Shevchenko?
Did you see that fight?
unidentified
Jesus Christ.
cameron hanes
I was like, can this fight get over?
joe rogan
They should have stopped that fight a long time ago.
cameron hanes
It was brutal.
joe rogan
That fight should have been stopped 15 or 20 times.
cameron hanes
Oh my God, it was brutal.
joe rogan
Yeah, Mario Yamasaki said he gave her the opportunity to be a warrior.
That's what he said.
That was his take on it.
cameron hanes
Oh, man.
She was getting beat up.
joe rogan
Not just beat up.
Did you see the stats?
The actual physical striking stats?
The significant strikes...
cameron hanes
Did she land any?
joe rogan
One.
cameron hanes
Okay.
joe rogan
And Valentina...
She landed one...
I think...
It was some unbelievably overwhelming number, like one versus several hundred in the significant strike department.
Like, literally, Shemek landed one pretty decent punch.
cameron hanes
Shevchenko, she looked like a guy up there with the big hard elbows, you know, coming down.
I mean, just like, just power.
unidentified
She looked like a guy.
joe rogan
Sexist much?
Someone's a fucking sexist.
Did you notice that, Jamie?
unidentified
Jesus.
joe rogan
She's a world champion Muay Thai kickboxer.
She looks like a world champion woman, you son of a bitch.
unidentified
Jeez.
cameron hanes
I'm getting read the riot act over here.
joe rogan
You've got to be careful these days.
People turn on you.
cameron hanes
I hate that.
You know, I hate that.
That really irritates me.
I think I'm going to...
joe rogan
Yeah, why is it wrong to say she looks like a guy?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
She's a woman, son of a bitch.
That's why.
cameron hanes
You don't even get it.
I was just talking more about the power.
You just don't see women...
unidentified
Jesus, look at the strikes.
joe rogan
95 to 2. Oh.
cameron hanes
But you just don't see women coming down hard like that?
Have you before?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Kat Zingano.
Kat Zingano can do that.
cameron hanes
She's a beast.
It's just rare.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's rare.
cameron hanes
When they're on that...
reigning part.
It's just like, I just haven't seen it that often.
joe rogan
No, it's, there's not a lot of women that can throw down like that.
And Valentina is one of the most well-rounded women in the sport.
She, she sub Juliana Pena off her back.
She, you know, she stands up and outstrikes Holly Holm.
She went toe to toe with Amanda Nunes.
She went toe to toe with some of the best kickboxers in the world.
She's a world champion Muay Thai fighter.
I mean, she's just a fucking beast, man.
She's an all-around just badass fighter.
cameron hanes
There was an argument that she won that for the championship.
joe rogan
Against Nunes?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Super close fight.
I didn't think it was a bad decision, but I thought it was a very close fight.
It's hard for me calling fights because when I'm calling them, I'm just looking at what's happening, I'm trying to talk, but I'm not scoring it.
I don't score.
If you score, you've got to keep your mouth shut.
You should have a piece of paper in front of you.
Eddie Bravo used to do it for the UFC. He used to score in between rounds, and he had a great system where he would put a line down the center of a paper, and it would be one opponent on the left side and the other one on the right side, and then he would write down kicks, takedowns, submission attempts, and all that stuff, and then defense.
Those are little categories, and they would put check marks next to one.
And then he would go over why he thought someone won and what kind of score he gave.
He had a very good system.
And I think that's the only way to fairly judge a fight.
Unless it's like Valentina Shevchenko's fight, where you just go like, what the fuck?
I gave her like...
10-2.
I mean, it was so overwhelming.
I mean, a 10-8 round is a disgrace.
It's like a 10-6.
If you gave her just a 10-8, you'd be like, who the fuck are you?
What kind of shit judge are you?
cameron hanes
Oh my god, that was crazy.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was a bad matchup, because that girl, I believe that was her UFC debut.
So, to have a UFC debut against a woman who's fought for the title against a world-class striker, I mean, literally one of the very best strikers on the planet Earth, male or female.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And just, it's not fair, you know?
cameron hanes
That was her first fight at 125, wasn't it?
joe rogan
Valentina's, yes.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, Valentina fought Ioanniu and Jacek in Muay Thai.
Oh, how'd she do?
She beat her.
I think...
I think they fought more than once.
But I believe Valentina beat her.
I hope I'm not wrong.
Because I'm wrong a lot.
cameron hanes
I'm excited for that Rose...
joe rogan
Now my Eunice and Joanna and Jacek rematch?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, you know, Rose trains with Valentina.
cameron hanes
Oh, okay.
joe rogan
That's her main sparring partner.
cameron hanes
Oh, really?
unidentified
Yeah.
Oh.
cameron hanes
Man, that's a good camp then.
Just having those two there to work off each other.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's phenomenal for Rose and for Valentina.
cameron hanes
It's going to be tough for Rose to come now as the champion.
I don't know.
It'll be interesting to see if it changes at all.
joe rogan
Yeah, it will definitely be interesting.
And coming into this fight was fascinating to me.
Even though Rose won by first round knockout, she's the underdog.
cameron hanes
Yeah, well, I put up that clip of when she was saying the Lord's Prayer there, when you were up there and you were talking about how it was terrifying or something like that.
I put up that little clip.
That was crazy.
She was so in the zone.
It's from you guys.
On fight night, before the fight, you guys were standing there and they were showing that from the weigh-in.
Oh my God, that was classic.
joe rogan
Yeah, she was so in the zone that Joanna was talking shit to her.
I'm going to fuck you up.
I'm going to fuck up your pretty face.
I'm the boogie woman.
She's talking all this crazy shit to her and Rose is just going, Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done.
And she was in this zone where you want to put her fist on her nose and she didn't even flinch.
cameron hanes
That was the only one that I said because they had something up about Fighter of the Year, I think.
But that was...
I get fired up for all the fights.
But that was the only fight that I was standing up because I was watching it at home.
And I'm just like, oh my god!
Because she was landing those hard punches and it was, I don't know, it's amazing.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was amazing.
cameron hanes
Amazing.
joe rogan
A lot of people thought she had a chance by submission because Naomi Eunice is a really good submission artist and she's really fast.
She'll throw up flying arm bars and shit.
She's wild.
She takes crazy chances.
But for her to win by KO like that, it was like, holy shit.
cameron hanes
I know it.
I know it.
I was so pumped.
joe rogan
When Daniel Cormier just starts yelling out, Thug Rose!
unidentified
Thug Rose!
joe rogan
That was amazing.
That was one of my favorite moments of doing commentary, of just being next to him while he was just yelling that out.
Because it was just pure excitement and appreciation and joy.
He was just having a good time.
cameron hanes
Does he know her then, too?
joe rogan
I mean, they all know.
I don't know each other.
cameron hanes
Oh.
joe rogan
I mean, I don't know how well he knows her.
cameron hanes
Not training together.
joe rogan
No, I don't believe so.
cameron hanes
Yeah, not the same camp.
joe rogan
I mean, maybe she's done some training at AKA. I'm not aware.
But she's in Colorado.
She's with Trevor Whitman.
And her boyfriend, Pat Barry, who's a world-class kickboxer.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's a really good MMA fighter as well.
cameron hanes
I remember him.
joe rogan
Fighting in the UFC, he had some wild-ass fights.
He's a serious striker.
Pat Barry can fucking crack.
cameron hanes
I remember it.
I mean, I thought he was fighting, let's see, who was that?
And it's like, I thought he was knocked out, basically, and then landed one big one, or maybe it's the other way around.
joe rogan
The other way around, yeah.
He was fighting Chet Kongo, and he had Chet Kongo completely out of it.
And he just went in for broke, and Chet Kongo caught him with a crazy punch and KO'd him.
cameron hanes
Yeah, that was it.
I remember that fight.
joe rogan
That was nuts.
That was nuts.
But that's just how Pat fights.
He's a wild man.
He just fights wild.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I remember he was thick and could punch.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's a tank.
Ruthless, ruthless leg kicks.
He's got some of the best leg kicks I've ever seen in the heavyweight division.
cameron hanes
Those are...
I just heard you talk about it the other day, but those low leg kicks are a new thing nowadays.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, Benson Henderson started doing that a long time ago.
He was one of the first guys to introduce it to MMA. But he had some success with it, but not like you're seeing today.
You're seeing guys getting debilitated really quickly.
cameron hanes
It must be a new...
So it's a weak spot on humans, I guess.
unidentified
Well, there's a lot of things that...
joe rogan
Muay Thai fighters known about forever that MMA fighters are just starting to figure out.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
The same as with kickboxing and karate.
There's a lot of karate moves that MMA fighters are not good at, but karate guys are.
And karate guys come into MMA like Stephen Tompkins.
Thompson.
Thompson.
Wonderboy.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wonderboy Tompkins.
Tompkins.
Keep saying Tompkins because of Sean Tompkins, but Wonderboy is doing things from a sideways karate stance that a lot of people just don't know how to handle.
Wonderboy has these crazy front leg sidekicks and front leg roundhouse kicks.
Have you ever watched his fight with Johnny Hendrix?
It's one of the best examples.
He hits Johnny Hendrix in the gut with a sidekick, and then Johnny Hendrix is still there, so he roundhouse kicks him in the face with the same leg, and you see Johnny's like, what in the fuck?
Because it's just something like, he didn't see that in training.
cameron hanes
You can't simulate that.
joe rogan
You have to get a really good karate guy, and most really good karate guys, he's just going to be able to take them down.
But, you know...
Wonder Boy's just got that style just dialed in and nailed.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he moves like a snake from the waist.
Like, he moves backwards from the waist.
Like, he gets away from shit and then fires back at you.
cameron hanes
He looked good in that last fight.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Against Jorge Masvidal?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, so that's a different style.
And so these techniques, like, he's...
Exceptionally good at those karate techniques, and a lot of people aren't.
And so with Muay Thai, most of the time when guys were learning Muay Thai and bringing it into MMA, they were doing a few things.
They were throwing the leg kicks, they were throwing the knees to the body, the elbows, normal Muay Thai techniques.
But they were missing some of the subtleties.
So some of the better Muay Thai fighters started training with some of the better MMA fighters, and then slowly but surely those techniques started leaking in.
And then the big one now is that low leg kick.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That low leg kick is a motherfucker, man.
It just takes out...
You can't condition your lower leg.
cameron hanes
That's what I'm saying.
It feels like it's a week's...
I mean, because I know Michael Chandler, he got caught with that, and that's how he lost the belt.
joe rogan
Yeah, it killed the nerves in his leg.
cameron hanes
Yeah, and it looked like his leg was broke.
I mean, his ankle was flopping all around.
You'd swear that that leg was broke.
And it must have just been those low leg kicks down there, just dead in the nerve.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's amazing.
It's amazing how many fighters, like Gilbert Melendez, when he fought Jeremy Stevens, Jeremy Stevens cracked him real early in the first round with that low leg kick, and you see it immediately swelling up.
And then Gilbert's just falling down on it.
He just can't stand up on it.
unidentified
It's crazy.
joe rogan
Douglas Lima and Rory McDonald.
Rory McDonald in Bellator, right into the same thing.
Right into the lower leg.
He had a giant hematoma.
It was fucking huge and swollen.
unidentified
Yeah, it's a devastating technique.
joe rogan
It's interesting.
I just love that.
I love when new elements get brought into this very complex sport.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I mean, that's just been a new one for sure.
But this Saturday, are you going to be at the Keep Hammering Run?
joe rogan
This Saturday is a Keep Hammering run?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Where?
cameron hanes
Salt Lake.
joe rogan
I didn't know there was one.
No.
No, I'm going to be here.
cameron hanes
No, remember that you went to that show.
joe rogan
Yeah, I did go to that show.
I went to that show by accident.
cameron hanes
The Western Hunting Expo.
joe rogan
I was in town skiing, which I fucking hate.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't hate skiing, but I'm not a fan.
It's just boring.
cameron hanes
You just dislike it a lot.
joe rogan
I just don't get it.
Every time I do it, I'm like, maybe this time I'm going to get it.
This is going to be the day where I'm going to be in bliss.
I'm going to slide down that mountain.
People are like, oh, it's because you're not good at it.
I did it for five years.
I got pretty good at it.
I didn't get good at it like I couldn't enter a skiing competition, but I don't fall down anymore.
I know how to stop.
I know how to ski.
I just don't get it.
So I was there and then I was like, what?
There's a hunting expo?
And I fucking snuck away for a day.
I had a great time with you.
I was like, this is so much better.
cameron hanes
Yeah, so that's this weekend, that show.
joe rogan
And you have a keep hammering run in Utah?
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Where's it at?
If it's the same place as last year, it's just right, I mean, we start at the Capitol there in Salt Lake.
Capitol building, and then you run a 5K from there.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
cameron hanes
Yeah, so it's Saturday morning.
joe rogan
Should be fun.
I'm a big fan of Salt Lake.
I love that town.
unidentified
Me too.
joe rogan
It's fucking great.
cameron hanes
Yeah, me too.
joe rogan
Nice people, man.
cameron hanes
Oh, I know.
joe rogan
They're so nice.
cameron hanes
The best.
joe rogan
I mean, I know it's weird.
There's a lot of Mormons there.
I know people get weirded out by Mormons.
They're the nicest people.
They're so nice.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, I don't care what wacky shit you believe, as long as you're nice.
cameron hanes
That's it.
Yeah, just be nice.
unidentified
That's it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
So that's, I'm excited.
It's going to be, I think we're hoping to have, God, I want to think, we had a few hundred last year.
unidentified
Really?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
unidentified
Nice.
cameron hanes
It's going to be, and then we'll do that Saturday, and then we'll be back in September elk hunting.
unidentified
Ooh.
cameron hanes
Do you remember that?
Remember elk hunting in Utah?
joe rogan
I do.
We only got to 470,000 views.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
We're going to do a podcast when we get to 500,000.
What's it at right now, Jamie?
Go to the UA Hunt YouTube page.
cameron hanes
We might have to cancel this.
joe rogan
Son of a bitch.
Yeah, we were hoping to do a podcast when it hit 500,000, but it petered out.
cameron hanes
It did.
joe rogan
Petered out at about 471, 270. Ooh, so we got 1,000 today.
So we just need a few more days.
We're good.
By the end of the month.
cameron hanes
Yeah, close enough.
joe rogan
Yeah, we're getting close.
We'll hit it by the end of the month.
cameron hanes
Hey, and then also this weekend, the Secretary of the Interior, Zinke, on Friday is going to announce a big, I think it's a big win for conservationists, and we're going to protect the winter migration routes for deer and elk from development.
So that's been a big thing that I told them when I met with them back in Vegas, I don't know when it was, a couple weeks ago, that it feels like We've taken some hits as sportsmen as far as the national monuments being shrunk, you know, and you can argue that both ways.
Drilling on the coast, you know, a lot of people don't like the prospects of that.
So I'm like, man, we could use a wind and brought up the winter migration routes and protecting those from any development just so those animals can get down and get to the winter range.
When food's hard to come by, and so that's going to be announced on Friday that he's going to make that happen.
joe rogan
That's awesome.
And now you have a position there as well.
What is your official position?
cameron hanes
I'm on the International Wildlife Conservation Council, which doesn't have anything to do with North America, but I'm just kind of using that as an excuse to talk about North America.
joe rogan
It doesn't have anything to do with North America?
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
What does it have to do with?
cameron hanes
Well, that's about the trophy export ban from Africa.
unidentified
Oh.
cameron hanes
So...
International hunting, basically.
It's weighing in on that.
joe rogan
If you go to Australia and you shoot some animals, you can't bring the meat back.
cameron hanes
Is that different?
It's different.
That doesn't have anything to do with what's going on right now.
It's Africa and with elephants coming back.
When you can't bring your trophy back, who's going to want to go shoot?
Not just elephants, because elephants are a whole different category.
Who's going to go want to shoot A gazelle.
Well, if you can't bring it back.
joe rogan
An eland, yeah.
cameron hanes
I don't know if those are regulated, but it's mostly elephants.
And lions.
And lions, yeah.
joe rogan
They reversed it, and then Trump said, fuck that.
Trump doesn't like it, which is fascinating because his sons are big hunters.
He called it a horror show.
cameron hanes
He did, and that's what got my attention.
It's because he said that he doesn't see how conservation helps elephants Which, okay, that's one thing.
But then he said, or any other animals.
And I'm like, wait a second.
Okay, you can't, we can't say conservation hunting as a conservation tool doesn't help any other animals, because we've proven here in North America, it's that it's a model that works.
So I didn't like how he worded that and lumped that on together.
And I'm like, was that I was Was that just a poorly worded tweet?
What's going on here?
So then he said he was going to look at that ban regarding elephants because, you know, if there's no value on the animals, we know what happens.
And if there is no hunting, it's pretty much the death sentence of the animal.
joe rogan
Well, we'd probably have to explain that to a lot of people that don't know what we're talking about, but Africa, there's a lot of animals in Africa that were on the verge of extinction just a few decades ago.
And what they did was, it's a very controversial thing, especially to people that don't hunt, but what they did was they created a lot of these game preserves where they had these animals and they had a financial interest in keeping these animals alive because people paid a lot of money to come over there and hunt them.
So now these animals that were on the verge of extinction just a couple of decades ago are thriving in record numbers.
But they get hunted.
So for people that are concerned about the welfare of these animals and their wildlife lovers, they're in a weird predicament because it's hunting that's keeping these animals alive.
And it seems like a contradiction.
Like, how could hunting be conservation?
cameron hanes
Right.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
But even in this country, 11% taxes on bullets, on hunting equipment, on all the different things that people buy.
And this was a self-imposed tax that sportsmen put on the purchase of these goods so that it would go towards wildlife.
And billions of dollars, billions of dollars have gone to preserving wetlands, preserving wildlife habitat, reestablishing populations of animals in all these different areas where they're diminished.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
It's like the amount of money that has gone towards conservation from hunters versus from PETA or the Humane Society or any other welfare group, it's not even remotely comparable.
unidentified
No.
cameron hanes
Hunters are making the difference, and we put our money where our mouth is.
We say we care about it.
We pay for it.
We put money there to help conservation and pay for the biologists and pay for the studies and pay for Habitat enhancement.
And so that essentially is the same thing that needs to happen in Africa.
But it's weird to say, well, how can the United States regulate what happens in Africa?
Because we can't, really.
But we can say, we're not going to allow the trophies to come home.
So that pretty much stops the hunting in Africa.
So yeah, we're not saying you can or can't hunt.
You can still go do it.
You just can't bring them home.
Which essentially stops the hunting.
Without hunting, those animals don't have value.
And no matter how you want to...
Slice it or phrase it or whatever you want.
If they don't have value, they're not gonna, it's going to be the detriment of the animal of the species.
You know, Kenya, they stopped hunting in 1973. And 70% of the animals are gone with no hunting.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's very confusing.
Because it seems contradictory.
cameron hanes
It does.
And it's like, you know, I talked with Zinke about this also.
And so that's what this council is about, to try to make a good decision on how best to regulate the trophies coming home.
And maybe we can help promote hunting and how to do it right and what it means as a council.
So that's...
I'm involved in that.
I used that opportunity to talk to him about other things too.
So I don't know.
I don't know where it's all going to lead.
joe rogan
It's a fascinating subject because elephants are endangered in some parts of Africa, but Africa is an enormous place.
And in other parts of Africa, they have a problem with elephants.
So going to those places and shooting elephants to most people is a horrific offense.
But the problem is I don't see the amount of money that someone has to pay to go and shoot an elephant.
It's a crazy amount of money.
cameron hanes
$75,000.
joe rogan
That's a lot of fucking money.
How many people are spending $75,000 to go look at them or help them?
cameron hanes
They're not going to.
joe rogan
They're not going to.
cameron hanes
No.
And when you say, well, that money could come from photo safaris.
No.
unidentified
No one's going to pay $75,000 to take a picture.
cameron hanes
And for a photo safari, where they have them set up is that they go on pretty much the same route.
So the habitat just gets hammered.
I mean, you know what a national park here, the most popular places, you know what those look like.
It's a freaking dump.
So when you have those photo safaris that go on the same track, basically you're hammering the habitat.
You're not getting back to the back reaches where the poachers are killing the animals.
You know, that's still happening back there.
And then to get a pride of lion in to where you can take pictures of it, they're still going out and shooting zebras and impala and different things, buffalo, throwing them out there so the lions are there eating.
So there's still animals dying, but there's just the animals aren't benefiting from it.
So when you think of like in the bush of Africa, if a farmer there has a crop and there's elephants getting in there thrashing his crop, The elephant has no value to him.
What has value is the crop.
And if the elephant's in there trampling it, he just wants the elephant dead.
He wants it gone.
So he's going to shoot.
It's going to lay there.
It's not going to benefit anybody.
But his crop grows.
And that's what happens.
joe rogan
It's just very hard for people to look at it that way.
Because they look at it like, no, I don't want an elephant to die.
No, I don't want a lion to die.
No, I don't want a zebra to die.
No, I don't want a giraffe to die.
But you can go ahead and shoot that other thing, that warthog, that ugly thing.
Nobody gives a fuck about warthogs.
You can shoot warthogs and smile and take a picture.
People are racist.
They're racist against certain animals.
That's a fact.
cameron hanes
Oh, for sure, for sure.
joe rogan
That's a fact.
cameron hanes
Is it racism?
joe rogan
Racism.
Race of speciesism.
cameron hanes
Are you a speciesist?
joe rogan
I am.
cameron hanes
I sent you a video about that.
joe rogan
I'm a speciesist.
That's a fact.
I like people way more than I like goldfish.
cameron hanes
And with regard to lions, you know, so if lions are coming in and killing the goats or whatever that, say, in Tanzania that they're raising, they're just going to put...
They'll be a dead goat.
They'll put poison in it.
The pride will come in, eat it.
They'll go die.
Then no more goats are getting killed.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
All those lions are dead.
joe rogan
Well, that was one of the things about Zimbabwe, right?
Was it Zimbabwe where that guy killed that lion, the Cecil?
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Oh, I think so, yeah.
joe rogan
That place, they had to kill a bunch of lions because people stopped lion hunting there.
And so because they stopped lion hunting there, they had this excess of lions, and they were destroying the undulate population, so they had to go in and just slaughter these lions.
So the $50,000 per lion that they would have made that would have gone towards all sorts of different things, protection of the habitat, the different conservation officers that work in that area, instead, there's no money.
and then they actually have to hire someone to go and do that job.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
And this is the argument about British Columbia as well, that this is exactly what's going to happen up there.
The argument that you're getting from the people that are in the field, that are out there every day, is that what's going to have to happen is you're going to have a bunch of problem bearers, and they're going to have to hire people to go after these problem bears, and it's incredibly expensive and very, very dangerous.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And bears are still going to die.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So that's still going to happen.
Some of them are still going to die.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But animals are going to die.
You know, I mean, do you get mad when a bear kills an antelope or when a bear kills a giraffe?
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
Well, they don't really.
They're not over there.
But if they were over here, you know, if a bear kills a moose, are you upset, or are you only upset when a person kills a moose?
cameron hanes
Yeah, right.
And, you know, in Africa, too, so those animals are dying, and when it's hunters that are doing it, numbers are very controlled.
The harvest is very controlled.
You can take X amount of animals out, and this money will go towards, you know, this enhancement of a waterhole, this Paying for the anti-poaching unit, which when I was over there was $1,000 a day to pay for guys to come in to keep the poachers out of there.
Without that money, none of that's happening.
So instead of having a very regulated harvest number, the poachers will kill however many.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And let's be honest about it.
The vast majority of the money is going towards whatever lodge or the owners of that area.
unidentified
Yeah, for sure.
cameron hanes
But they're also hiring people.
joe rogan
They are hiring people, but they have a financial incentive to keep these animals alive.
It's very problematic for a lot of people.
They don't like to hear it.
And I've read this article, this ridiculous article that said that that's not true, that trophy hunting is not what sustains these animals, and you can get just as much from a safari.
That's not true.
What you're saying is not true.
The CNN thing handled it pretty well.
cameron hanes
Did you watch that trophy?
joe rogan
What did you think about that?
No, I... A lot of hunters said some stupid shit.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I didn't.
God, you know, I mean, we talked about this earlier in the podcast, you know, when people say, oh, you just want to go kill stuff and this and that.
I didn't really like when whoever the hunter was, I don't know, probably a nice guy, but he shot a crocodile and he says, yeah, mother effer.
I'm like, what is going on there?
I've never done anything like that.
And that isn't like the honorable hunter that I know.
So that seemed a little weird.
joe rogan
I don't like crocodiles.
I might say, yeah, motherfucker, if I shot a crocodile.
Crocodiles scare the shit out of me.
They are the one thing that scares me more than pretty much any animal on the planet.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I know.
I still feel a lot of respect for the animal.
joe rogan
I'm joking around mostly.
cameron hanes
No, I know.
I know, but it just seemed like a weird reaction to me.
joe rogan
Well, especially knowing that the world is going to see that reaction.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, if he was just by himself and he said that and that was an honest reaction and he still had respect for the animal and it was just the fact that he pulled it off.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's unfortunate.
It's unfortunate to broadcast that for the world to see.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I thought it could have been a lot worse with regard to how hunters were portrayed.
You know, I mean, even the guy who killed the lion, he did get emotional.
He showed some reverence there, which I liked.
It could have been worse.
They talked about how its animals are, I guess, a commodity in some respects with the rhinos.
You know, I think that guy had 1,500 rhinos, didn't he, on his property?
Yeah.
You know, so what's better, 1500 rhinos for him to have and raise and cut off the horns or zero?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
You know, it's better to have 1500, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, well, it's definitely better for the population of rhinos as a whole, because people don't like the idea of raising something as a commodity, raising wildlife as a commodity.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I understand that.
joe rogan
Did you ever see the Louis Theroux documentary about wildlife in Africa, about those...
I forget what it was called, but you can watch it on YouTube.
That, to me, was a better piece and one of the most...
Interesting things because Louie is a he's a very smart guy, but he's also a very nice guy Yeah, he just kept asking questions and pestering people and getting to the heart of it But he also showed like these fenced-in lions and they're throwing a dead cow over the top of the fence and the lions are tearing it apart It's fucking crazy.
I didn't see it, but it's it's weird because the these Lions they're never wild like they're feeding them and then people go over there and hunt them as if it's like a wild lion Yeah, it's it's super weird I couldn't hunt in a fence.
cameron hanes
I couldn't hunt a lion in a fence.
So, I don't know.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's not what we call over here in America fair chase.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
There's a term.
That term fair chase is synonymous with ethical hunters in America.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And this is something that most people aren't aware of, that there's a code that And the code varies slightly.
Like in some places you can use electronic communication, meaning you can use walkie-talkies to locate an animal.
Like I believe you can do that in Arizona.
You definitely can do that in Nevada.
You can't do that in Montana.
There's different things of what people decide is fair chase or ethical, and it depends.
Like Colorado, they won't even let you use a light on your site, on your bow site.
You can't have any electronics.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
Attached to your site, for whatever reason.
They just started allowing lighted NOx.
cameron hanes
Well, that was just in Oregon, too.
They've been out loud in Oregon.
I think, I mean, I haven't used them in Oregon, but I think they are legal now.
But yeah, I mean, as far as, so you're trying to define what is fair chase.
joe rogan
Right.
cameron hanes
And so, yeah, there's a lot of these electronics, this or that, but what we say is fair chase is not in a high fence.
joe rogan
Well, it's definitely not feeding a lion in a cage and then opening up the door right when the hunter pulls up.
cameron hanes
Do they do that?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
That is what they do.
It's one of the reasons why a lot of these lions that get shot, they don't know what the fuck is going on.
They're bedded somewhere.
They just lay down.
Because they're outside in this new environment like, where am I? They don't even know what it is.
Because they've been living in this very small environment.
And they let them out.
And they let them out right when the hunter gets there.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
That's tougher to justify.
joe rogan
It's very tough to justify.
I feel like it's not justifiable.
You're not hunting anymore.
You're just murdering an animal.
cameron hanes
It's not murder.
joe rogan
Murder is a person.
cameron hanes
I'm going to not address that part and just address hunting in general.
Hunting in general Is what's necessary for the future of animals.
I mean, until it gets down to a number where maybe the white or black or whatever rhino that is, that's only down to a handful, obviously you're not going to hunt those.
But by and large, hunting is what keeps these animals, the population viable.
joe rogan
Well, and then there was also the case of Corey Knowles, who went over there.
cameron hanes
Dan Knowlton.
No.
joe rogan
How do you say it?
cameron hanes
Corey Knowlton.
joe rogan
Knowlton?
cameron hanes
Yep.
joe rogan
Is that how you say his name?
cameron hanes
Yep.
joe rogan
Sorry, Corey.
Corey Knowlton.
cameron hanes
We got it.
joe rogan
Why did I say Knowles?
Because I have too many names in my head.
But anyway, when Corey went over there, and Corey's done the podcast as well.
cameron hanes
Too much paw smoking.
joe rogan
You think so?
cameron hanes
No.
But that's what people like to say, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, people like to say a lot of stupid shit.
Let's have a pop quiz, motherfucker.
See who knows more shit.
But when Cory went over there, he spent a quarter of a million dollars to shoot an endangered rhino.
cameron hanes
I think it was $350,000, wasn't it?
joe rogan
Wasn't that much?
cameron hanes
It was a lot.
A lot of money.
joe rogan
Hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And he said that it was undervalued.
And he said the reason why the bidding didn't get higher was because there was so much pressure on people to do it.
But he explained very eloquently and very clearly on CNN and when he did my podcast about all the death threats that he got.
was killing other rhinos.
Right.
cameron hanes
And not breeding.
joe rogan
Not breeding.
It was an old rhino that was past its breeding prime.
It wasn't breeding anymore.
And it was killing the young rhinos.
It had killed a female that it tried to mate with, and it had killed another male.
And this is an endangered animal, and this thing was killing other animals.
So they had decided, look, we have to take this out of the population.
So what is the best way to do it?
To get a tremendous amount of money that can go for anti-poaching efforts and all these different things.
So he explained it.
This is an animal that they were going to kill.
They had to kill it because it was threatening this endangered population of only a couple of thousand rhinos, right?
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
It's a really interesting situation, and people would like it if that wasn't the case.
They would like it if, no, the money is actually coming from animal welfare groups and from wildlife lovers who just want to see these animals alive.
The difference is, It's very rare that someone is going to give you $350,000 to keep a rhino alive.
cameron hanes
And so that's a magnified example, but that's pretty much what's happening with all the animals.
I mean, you're not getting that much money, but you're getting money in exchange for their life, basically, and it's for the betterment of the herd.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I mean, that's hunting.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Right?
I mean, that's like...
Like I said, very magnified because you're getting a huge amount of money and there's only a few animals, but it's easy to see, hey, killing this one is going to save animals.
So that's really easy to see.
But that's pretty much what happens with all animals.
I mean, you're balancing that herd.
joe rogan
The other thing is they ate that rhino and a lot of people ate that rhino.
I mean, they gave that meat away to villages and people don't know.
Not only can you eat rhinos, apparently they taste good.
Same thing with elephant.
Elephant apparently tastes delicious.
cameron hanes
Well, do you remember in the Trophy movie, they could care less what elephant that guy killed, but they didn't like that it was small.
joe rogan
Do you remember that?
cameron hanes
Because they wanted more meat.
They don't care about...
They care about eating.
joe rogan
That's it.
cameron hanes
So, I mean, as far as the locals go, I mean, so we...
Here in America, it feels like, you know, we take up these causes, and it's like, you know, we're the social justice warriors for the world.
It's like, we ought to probably check in with the people that actually live there, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, they want you to kill the lions.
Jesus Christ!
There was an article in the New York Times shortly after the lion, Cecil the lion controversy, it said in Zimbabwe, we did not cry for lions.
cameron hanes
Right.
I know I read that one.
And that's real life.
Over here, everything lives, everybody's friends.
joe rogan
Simba is my friend!
And no one's saying that lions need to die.
No.
Look, I'm not in favor of those high-fence things and the way they keep those lions alive.
cameron hanes
And you would never hunt a lion.
You've told me before you wouldn't hunt one.
joe rogan
No, no desire.
cameron hanes
Right.
But you understand hunting and how it works and what we need.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's just a weird facet of human nature that we've sort of boxed ourselves into this situation with Africa.
But Africa, I think, is a...
You could look to that example and see how this is a very complex issue.
Especially, let's take all what Steve Rinella calls the charismatic megafauna out of the equation, like giraffes, which everybody loves.
I had a whole bit about giraffes in one of my comedy specials, that they're the one animal that you can't say, Like, is not better off in the zoo.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because, like other animals, they look like captive.
They look like they're contained.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But giraffes are so happy, babies feed them.
Like, I used to take my kids to the zoo when my daughter was, I don't even think she was two.
She's holding out a piece of lettuce and a fucking giraffe comes up.
cameron hanes
Huge head.
unidentified
Huge!
joe rogan
Huge, giant tongue wraps around the lettuce and takes it from her.
She's giggling and laughing.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But they're so confident in giraffe behavior that they let babies feed them.
cameron hanes
Yeah, that's impressive.
joe rogan
There's not another animal like that in the zoo.
cameron hanes
No, no.
Because animals are, you know, wild animals, you don't know what they're going to do.
joe rogan
But what I said was that a giraffe wakes up every day in the zoo and goes, another day with no lions.
That's true.
And just sort of wanders around the zoo.
They look like they're having a blast.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But they have not a care in the world.
They don't mind at all being in that fence.
As long as you keep chucking that hay over the side, keep it coming.
Keep that hay coming, baby.
cameron hanes
Yeah, good to go.
joe rogan
But we have connections with certain animals.
Elephants are a big one.
You know, lions are a big one.
Giraffes, for whatever reason, are a big one.
Even zebras.
People are like, why are you shooting a zebra?
It's too much like a horse.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, we have these...
But...
If it's like an antelope that you eat, like, oh, that kind of makes sense.
We have these kind of makes sense animals.
And again, warthogs, nobody gives a fuck about warthogs.
There's no one out there trying to save the warthog.
People don't even know how many there are.
They don't care.
cameron hanes
They can care less.
joe rogan
People are worried about lions.
No one is out there wondering how many warthogs there are left in Africa.
cameron hanes
I see it all the time.
It's like people will comment, not hunters, obviously, but they'll be on my page and say, well, I don't have a problem if you kill deer and elk, but there's no reason to kill a bear.
What are you talking about?
joe rogan
Have you ever had bear sausage?
Well, if you've had bear sausage, and you probably haven't, but if you have, it's goddamn good.
And why is it any different?
cameron hanes
It's the same.
joe rogan
Why is it any different?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's not.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
So it's just what they're ingrained to feel about an animal, I think.
unidentified
Well, they seem too dog-like.
Think so?
joe rogan
Yeah, that's a thing.
That's a thing with people.
Bears just seem dog-like.
cameron hanes
Oh, they're portrayed as being nice and friendly.
joe rogan
People have them for pets, too.
Like, there's a lot of people that have bears, pets, like a lot of Russian dudes.
cameron hanes
A lot of people?
joe rogan
Yeah, man, on Instagram.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Do you have one, Jamie?
joe rogan
You can find him.
There's this one motherfucker who has a giant grizzly bear that he cuddles with.
People keep sending me videos of this guy.
I'm like, one day.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
One day this video is going to get dark.
cameron hanes
God.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Look at this guy.
He's got a sweet bear.
He's just chilling with this bear.
This bear is my friend.
And we hang out.
unidentified
I take him places.
joe rogan
And he likes my girlfriend.
And I rub his back.
But one day he ate my baby.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Ugh.
unidentified
Ugh.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it looks like a cool bear.
joe rogan
It's a dope bear.
Look, they're fucking awesome animals, man.
I love all of them.
But here's the deal.
If you had a thousand of those living in your neighborhood, you'd have to thin the herd.
You just have to.
The reality of all this stuff is super complex, and I just do not think you get an understanding of it from, you know, in front of your laptop in Vancouver.
cameron hanes
You don't.
No, for sure.
So what I like is, you know, with regard to, like, this International Wildlife Council or even...
It just seems like with this administration, and people say good or bad, or mostly bad, it feels like, and that's one thing that I would read CNN, I'd listen to, it's like the same topic.
Two totally different slants.
So it's like, what the hell?
Who do you believe?
So that's why I was happy to be involved so I can actually hear.
But still, it's still hard.
It's still hard to listen and think, okay, so what's going on?
But with my whole thing is like, I kind of look at it as, if I got somebody online giving me advice, Or you give me advice.
I'll be like, well, Joe knows me.
I'm going to listen to him.
That's why I kind of wanted to be involved in these councils and in this part of this decision making.
Because they can listen to all these people talking shit.
All day.
But if I'm there and can actually weigh in, well, then they know me and, you know, it should weigh a little more.
joe rogan
They know your experience in this.
cameron hanes
Right.
And so that's why I want to be involved.
I'm not saying I'm going to agree and it's going to be exactly what I wanted every time, but...
I don't know how else to do it.
And I know that with my voice, because they have trust in me about whatever, even if they agree or don't agree, I'll at least get to share my thoughts.
And so that's what I did when I talked with Zinky the other day.
joe rogan
What is he like?
He's an avid hunter, right?
cameron hanes
Yeah, that's what, you know, and I've read all these, man, you would think he was the worst, just like Trump, you know, people, you'd think they were Satan to some people.
But to me, I read the outside magazine article on him, it sounded terrible, and I was like, God, that's not good.
I read a few other things about him, I'm like, but to me personally, it seemed, would listen, Seemed like somebody who, if we were sitting there talking about something and we came to a decision and it made sense, that's what he seemed like.
Like a normal, you know, well thought out person.
joe rogan
Well, I think he's probably got a tremendous amount of pressure on him from a bunch of different angles.
cameron hanes
Oh, for sure.
joe rogan
They're all interested in making money.
cameron hanes
For sure.
joe rogan
And they think of someone that is pro-wildlife as being a roadblock to the money.
Like, oh, this fucking greenhouse-loving, hippie, tree-hugging asshole.
cameron hanes
What he told me is he's concerned he wants to increase hunting opportunities and, you know, public land opportunities.
And that's kind of what I want to hear.
So, I mean, maybe who you're talking to, I understand that.
But it sounds good.
I mean, it gave me a better feeling talking to him than reading the other articles, the articles about him.
And then his staff, great people.
Like I said, just like we'd sit here and talk and it'd make sense.
And even talking with Donald Trump Jr., I'd be like, God, I wish we could just do this right now.
Because it's like you can actually come to a consensus, make a decision, talk it through, and be like, that's how it should be.
And it feels like it's different.
Politics are different because everybody, like you said, there's pressure from different places, but When I think of a politician, I think special interest groups and these other people that are influencing them, and you're wondering why is this for their own benefit, and so you don't really know.
With this, it doesn't feel like that.
It feels like it's trying to make the right decision without being influenced.
I know there's always going to be influence, but without the special interest type influence, and I don't know.
joe rogan
Well, I think the more people like you that are involved in this, and the more people like you have a say, or at least are...
They come to you for advice.
You're going to get at least a more balanced perspective of what the potential hazards are, what's important, what we need to concentrate on.
You know, I think, regardless of what you think about Trump, what people were excited about, about him as a president, would be that the economy would have an upswing.
And it did.
But lately, the last couple of days, there's been a massive decline in the stock market.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's been...
Yesterday, I think, was the biggest loss ever.
joe rogan
I don't understand the stock market.
I really don't get it.
A bunch of assholes throwing their hands in the air.
There's computers that are doing a lot of the calculations.
cameron hanes
I don't know what's going on.
joe rogan
It's too fucking confusing.
I feel like if I just went down that rabbit hole, I'd be stuck studying the stock market for weeks upon weeks, and I just don't have that kind of time, dude.
I've got to play techno hunt with cam hands.
cameron hanes
Well, and I like reading stuff like, you know, stock market's at an all-time high.
Everybody's making money.
joe rogan
That's all I heard.
cameron hanes
Yes!
I heard that.
joe rogan
Nothing but that.
Like, jobs.
Like, more jobs than ever.
You know, unemployment's at an all-time low.
I'm like, well, you know, when you have a guy who is just so hell-bent on making money in business, it's good for business.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
So, like, that would be the benefit of having a guy like that.
But then apparently there's some downsides to that shit, and the downsides are inflation and panic.
And then once the stock market starts going south and people start freaking out, then it really goes south.
And now it's really gone south.
cameron hanes
Well, last couple days.
joe rogan
That's all I live in the moment, Cam Haynes.
I'm not here for your fucking rosy view of the future.
cameron hanes
Oh, sorry.
joe rogan
I don't even understand the stock market.
I don't understand it.
I like hearing good news.
That's what I like hearing.
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I get comfort in hearing people that I'm not wondering about what their intentions are.
So that's why I enjoy the discussions with those guys.
I just said it feels like as sportsmen we took a couple of hits.
We could use something on the positive side, and I think we're getting that on Friday.
unidentified
So that's great.
joe rogan
So on Friday, are they going to make new rules in terms of what you can bring back and what you can't bring back?
cameron hanes
No, no, no.
joe rogan
Is that the idea behind it?
cameron hanes
No, that's not about the international.
This is about the corridors.
joe rogan
Oh, the corridors.
Right, right, right.
cameron hanes
So protecting migration routes for the big game animals here.
joe rogan
That's phenomenal.
Which is important.
That's very, very important.
Yeah, especially for animals like mule deer whose populations aren't really that good right now.
Yeah, elk.
cameron hanes
Elks still need to be able to get out of the high country, out from where they breed, down when the weather hits, to get down to where the feed is.
And if there's a bunch of gas rigs in there, I'm not going to be able to do it.
joe rogan
Do you follow Gritty Bowman on Instagram?
You do, right?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Brian was taking all these videos of elk in evergreen.
cameron hanes
Oh, I know.
joe rogan
Because they just wander right through the town, and they're huge.
Huge.
These are giant bulls that are just hanging out near cars.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
They have zero fear of people.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
And they know that once they're in the town, that's like they're on home base.
They're safe.
It's weird how they know that.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
cameron hanes
I know.
I did see that.
There's some nice animals in there.
joe rogan
Crazy!
It's beautiful.
People pulled over, just checking them out, and they're screaming and rutting.
It's just weird that they just migrate right through the town.
They probably figured out a long time ago, hey, just keep away from the cars.
Nobody fucks with you.
cameron hanes
We're good to go.
joe rogan
But you know, they have weird rules in Evergreen where you can kind of hunt in your backyard.
cameron hanes
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I didn't know that.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
If you own a certain amount of property, I think it's like more than an acre, you could fucking boom!
Blouch!
Right in your backyard.
cameron hanes
You got a full freezer then.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, I think that's exactly why they made those rules.
I think it's by section, you know, by unit, depending upon where you're at.
But in some places, you literally can hunt in your backyard.
I would imagine elk avoid those places.
cameron hanes
I would think so.
They learn pretty quick.
joe rogan
They figure that shit out.
Isn't it interesting?
cameron hanes
They learn quick.
joe rogan
Well, that's one of the things that they said about reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone.
They figured it out after a while.
They're like, okay.
In the beginning, they were just sitting ducks.
But that was in the 90s.
And now we're in 2018. It's essentially the ecosystem has sorted itself out.
And there's some good arguments that it's sorted itself out for the better.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, which is, you know, for the betterment of other wildlife, other plant species that the elk were, you know, eating a shitload of.
So, it's interesting.
But also, you should note that where they brought those wolves back, you can't hunt.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
Because it's the greater Yellowstone ecosystem.
It's like, it's all protected.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
So, maybe they needed them there.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
It's hard to say.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Just don't bring them to Colorado, fuckers.
Don't do it.
cameron hanes
There you go.
joe rogan
Don't do it.
So what else are you going to discuss with Zinke?
How often do you meet?
What does this job entail or this position entail?
cameron hanes
On that council, it says you meet twice a year.
So I don't really know when that's going to happen.
But for me, and my whole thing is like...
If I want to get to know somebody, I like to have them do what I do.
Just like you.
And so, he says he has a bow.
And I'm like...
I said, what kind of bow?
He told me, what kind of bow?
I'm like...
joe rogan
What kind of bow?
cameron hanes
I said, what did he have?
unidentified
It's not a Horton X1. No, it's an old bow.
Oh, really?
cameron hanes
God, I can't even...
joe rogan
Like a high country?
cameron hanes
Something like that.
Something like that.
But I'm like...
So anyway, I said, well...
I said, you want to shoot that bow?
He's like, yeah.
I said, well...
joe rogan
Hook him up with Hoyt.
cameron hanes
They can't take any gifts.
joe rogan
They can't take gifts?
cameron hanes
Because I said that.
I said, well, don't worry about that.
I go, just shoot your bow.
I said, how about if I come back to D.C. there and we shoot bows?
joe rogan
You can't give him a gift as a friend?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
Maybe from a company would be an issue.
cameron hanes
It's pretty regulated.
joe rogan
Oh, that makes sense.
cameron hanes
Taking whatever.
joe rogan
You can only take bribes.
cameron hanes
Under the table.
joe rogan
You can't take gifts.
cameron hanes
You can't have an actual bow.
joe rogan
Isn't that funny?
You can take campaign contributions.
cameron hanes
Yeah, but not a bow.
joe rogan
Yeah, you can't take a bow.
You could have lobbyists that are on staff that are trying to get cash and work in those special interest groups.
Come on, baby.
Can't take a bow.
cameron hanes
We talked about next week, me going back there and shooting bows.
joe rogan
With him?
cameron hanes
Yep.
And talking just about whatever.
joe rogan
Film it.
I want to see his form.
cameron hanes
That's right.
So we're trying to make that happen.
Like I said, if you have somebody's ear, you just want to be able to tell them what's important to you.
And that's all I want to do.
But I can do that...
Generally better over something I care about like archery or running or lifting weights or whatever like that.
So that's my goal just to, you know, share what's what because I feel like I have a pretty good pulse on what's important to sportsmen and hunters here in North America.
And so I just want to share that.
joe rogan
Well, I know Donald Trump Jr. is an avid archer.
Like, he's really into it.
He's an avid hunter.
cameron hanes
He's got a hoit.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And you got a chance to talk to him, too.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
Quite a while.
Yeah, he wants to do the podcast.
joe rogan
This podcast?
cameron hanes
Yeah, so he wants, you know, me, you, and him to talk about hunting.
joe rogan
Okay.
We're in, Don.
Think we'll smoke weed first?
cameron hanes
For sure.
Oh, for sure.
joe rogan
What's he like?
cameron hanes
No, total, normal.
joe rogan
How's that possible?
How's it possible that you grow up with Donald Trump as your dad?
You got a golden toilet bowl when you're a little kid.
cameron hanes
That's what I said.
I haven't met any of Donald's kids, except for Don Jr., So I'm like, well...
But I follow him on Instagram.
You know, you kind of get a...
joe rogan
I do too.
cameron hanes
Kind of a...
Sort of a feel for what...
I said, man, I go...
You know, in talking to you, I said, it seems weird to say, but seem like a normal guy.
unidentified
Which...
cameron hanes
Your dad's a billionaire.
I don't know.
Is he a billionaire, right?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
So, doesn't that seem...
It seems surprising.
He's like...
Seems like just like we would be.
joe rogan
Right.
cameron hanes
Total normal.
I mean, he's...
I follow him on Instagram.
I see the pictures of his daughter, super cute, the fishing pictures.
But I saw him on Tucker Carlson the other night, and I told him this when we were talking in Vegas.
And he was just laying it down for a one-minute clip on Instagram, on Tucker Carlson, which was Fox News, and laying it down.
And I was like, God...
I never really had followed his political or his public speaking type life.
So I was like, holy crap, this guy's pretty dialed in.
joe rogan
It's probably the plan.
He probably takes over when Big Daddy retires.
cameron hanes
He might.
I mean, he's 40, so he's just kind of getting his feet under.
joe rogan
Slides right in.
cameron hanes
In that world.
joe rogan
Donald Trump dynasty, just like they did with the Bushes!
cameron hanes
That's right.
No, all of them.
joe rogan
Clintons?
The Bushes?
cameron hanes
You know, once you're in there, it's like, that's all they want.
joe rogan
Isn't that interesting?
cameron hanes
It's crazy, but he, I would feel, I mean, man.
joe rogan
Well, that's what Dudley told me.
cameron hanes
He seemed like a good guy.
joe rogan
Dudley said he wished that Don Jr. was running for president.
Yeah, he said Don Jr. is very reasonable.
cameron hanes
Oh, man.
Totally.
unidentified
Totally.
joe rogan
It's funny.
If he says one thing wrong, one thing, one slip up of a word, which, by the way, everybody does.
I do it every day.
cameron hanes
Yeah, me too.
joe rogan
One slip up of the word.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
Corey Knowlton.
One fuck up like that, and then this dunce.
I know.
cameron hanes
It's just magnified.
joe rogan
Ridiculous hate that comes his way and the attacks against him.
And people right now listening to this probably yelling at their folks, because they're fucking justified!
He's a piece of shit!
He's a shill!
He's a this, he's a that!
cameron hanes
I mean, it is really hard not to get pissed off.
joe rogan
Well, it's really hard to be unbiased.
It's really hard to just have a balanced perspective.
I don't think anybody does a good job as president.
I've never seen a single person do it well.
I've seen Obama give very good speeches.
I think he's very statesman-like.
I think he's very...
What Obama did that was excellent was he was very...
He's composed and articulate and smooth, and he represented a highly educated, like a high level of human being in terms of his intellect and the way he carries himself, and I think that's good for the country.
But I think, you look at the drone attacks, you look at the attacks on whistleblowers and on the press, and there's a lot of bad shit about the Obama administration that everybody wants to sweep under the rug, because I think nobody's a good president.
Terrible job.
cameron hanes
I didn't like how he sort of started a war on cops.
You remember when he was, you know, crucifying some of the arrests they had and it started, people were looking at cops thinking, are these the good guys or the bad guys?
I didn't like that because Maybe there are some bad cops, but there's bad everything you do every job has bad whatever so hundred percent instead of highlighting The people out there protecting our interests and serving the public.
He was highlighting the quote bad cops I guess and it and it put them all in a bad light.
I didn't like that whereas Trump he knows, you know He's highlighting Good police work.
He's highlighting the military.
He's, you know, pride in the good old United States of America.
I like that.
So, I mean, I don't know.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, the thing that drove me the most nuts about Obama was that crazy speech that he said, If you have a business...
That business uses the highway?
You didn't build that.
cameron hanes
Yeah, you didn't build that?
joe rogan
You didn't build that business?
cameron hanes
Oh.
joe rogan
You didn't build that?
cameron hanes
That pissed me off.
joe rogan
That is the craziest way to look at things.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
If I was his friend, I would have said, okay...
This is not the way to say this.
cameron hanes
No, what he did, I think, he started, like, highlighted the victim mentality.
Everybody's a victim.
Whereas, I like Trump, he says, you're in control, here's your opportunity, make the most of it.
joe rogan
It seems like a different approach.
I would have just phrased it very differently.
I would have said, if you have a business and you started it yourself, congratulations.
This is what American ingenuity is all about.
But we all have to be aware.
Not just you, not signaling that person to say, you didn't know that!
You didn't do it!
I would say we all have to be aware that without our infrastructure, none of us would be able to do it.
So we all have to support this beautiful system that we have.
So in an empowering way, instead of, you didn't do it!
You didn't build it!
You didn't do it!
cameron hanes
Taking credit away from people who work their ass off.
joe rogan
And by the way, He's a guy who's never been in business.
He's a lawyer.
He went from being a lawyer to being a professional politician to being the president.
Bam, bam, bam.
cameron hanes
That's one thing I don't like is people who are like, their goal is to be a politician.
I don't like that.
joe rogan
I'd like it if they were awesome at it, but no one's awesome at it.
cameron hanes
I like, it seems like the best, like even back in, you know, when our country was founded, those weren't politicians.
Those were guys who had influence, who made good decisions, and then they were politicians.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
I've been watching Vikings a lot lately.
It's a new show I've been watching.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
And it seems like there's no good leaders.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Even in the Viking world, there was bad leaders.
This leaders suck.
Nobody wants a goddamn leader.
And when you're a leader of 350 million people or whatever the hell we have here...
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's tough.
joe rogan
It's just impossible.
It doesn't make any sense.
What's going on, Jamie?
I just looked up that quote.
It got taken out of context.
Uncut and unedited.
But he said it.
jamie vernon
He said those two sentences, but not in that way.
joe rogan
Oh, if you got a business, you didn't build that.
cameron hanes
Hey, you know what that is?
joe rogan
Somebody else made that happen.
cameron hanes
Fake news.
unidentified
Okay, so what is the actual quote?
joe rogan
Let's hear the real quote.
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help.
There was a great teacher.
Okay, but if you've got a business, you didn't build that.
Okay, somebody invested in roads and bridges.
Okay, here it is.
Somebody helped create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive.
Somebody invested in the roads and bridges.
If you got a business, you didn't build that.
That's just a shit way to say it.
unidentified
It is.
joe rogan
I don't care, even in context.
Somebody else made that happen.
Not somebody else.
We all chipped in.
cameron hanes
We!
unidentified
That's what he's saying, I think.
joe rogan
I know that's what he's saying, but it's a shit way to say it.
It's a shit, disempowering way to say it.
cameron hanes
It is.
That's what I don't like.
joe rogan
It takes credit away from the people.
I don't like that.
There's a way to do that.
There's a way to phrase that.
That needs an edit and a rewrite.
And by the way, how the fuck could he even have time to do that when you're writing under the pressure of being the President of the United States?
I totally sympathize.
I get it.
I'm not saying I would have done better.
I would have done way worse.
But it still sucks.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's just not a good way to say things.
cameron hanes
I agree.
unidentified
You didn't build it.
cameron hanes
No.
You didn't do that.
You said disempowering, and that's exactly right.
And so it feels like there's a different tone right now.
And I'm not saying our president is perfect.
joe rogan
Just say it, white people.
You like white people.
cameron hanes
I'm not saying that at all.
unidentified
I get it, dude.
cameron hanes
But I'm just saying, nobody's perfect, but I like that part of the message.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, he definitely has that part of the message, but he's obviously said a bunch of stupid shit, too.
But he's also a guy who flies off the cuff.
I mean, we have to take into consideration what this guy was his entire career.
He's a giant, larger-than-life personality with crazy hair who puts his name on everything, and then he ran for president.
Yeah.
Of course he's going to stay that guy when he becomes president.
We go, no, no, no.
Now that you're president, it's like if you're playing Beauty and the Beast and you're the beast, you've got to act like the beast.
Now you've got the role, you've got to act like the beast.
Why are you still acting like Hugh Grant?
You can't.
I know.
The role of being the president is this majestic top of the mountain that we look at.
Like, oh, he's the guy.
He's the main dude.
You're supposed to act like the president.
cameron hanes
That's what they say.
He's not presidential.
It's like he never has been.
But you know what?
He's been a leader.
So here's what I know.
I don't see ISIS over here bombing the shit out of the United States anymore.
Because they're all dead.
joe rogan
Well, there's a lot of that, but they were never bombing the shit out of the United States anyway.
cameron hanes
They're trying to.
joe rogan
There's a few dummies that snuck over here and did some stupid shit.
cameron hanes
They're not here.
joe rogan
Horrible shit.
Yeah.
Look, the one thing that the military has said and friends of mine that are in the military and guys like Tim Kennedy that rejoined.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
He said that they feel like for the first time in a long time, the military is basically got the handcuffs off.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And that they are allowed to do things the way they think would be best.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And a lot of people don't like to hear that.
They like to say, well, no, the politicians are supposed to control the military, and it's supposed to be, you're not supposed to allow the generals to make the decisions.
Right.
There's a debate back...
This is, again, like a lot of other things.
This is a very complex, nuanced conversation that you'd have to have all the facts at your disposal.
I don't.
cameron hanes
No, either do I. But I can say they're not bombing the shit out of the United States.
They sound like a complete redneck.
joe rogan
Right.
cameron hanes
And that's how I see it.
But I understand there is...
joe rogan
Well, you need a strong military because the world has some dark places.
And anybody who doesn't think that you need a strong military, you need to pay attention to what the fuck is going on in Syria, in North Korea, in a lot of parts of the world where there is chaos.
And this is an entirely real possibility anywhere.
Anywhere that exists, it can exist here.
If you see horrible tyranny and destruction and chaos in other parts of the world, the only reason why it's not here is because of geography.
If they can get there, they can get here.
If things can go sideways in Iran or in Iraq or wherever the fuck it is, they can go sideways in America, too.
And if you don't think that we need military, you're goddamn crazy.
I would love it if we didn't.
I would love it if we lived in this utopian world where everybody treats people the way you or I would.
Where you don't have to worry about.
If you and I were neighbors, I would never worry about you invading me.
I'd be like, oh, Cam's never gonna bring a gun over and fucking take over my house.
He's a nice guy.
unidentified
If the world was like that, it would be wonderful.
joe rogan
It would be wonderful.
But right now, it's not currently like that.
And people that I know, like Tim Kennedy, a guy who's been there, a guy who's done that, a guy like Jocko Willink, a guy who's been there, those are the guys that I turn to When I want to know what's going on over there, I want to get a real perspective.
You want to get a real perspective for someone who's been in active duty in a combat situation, who's been to these horrific parts of the world.
They can tell you what's going on.
And when they tell you that it's a better situation, that the military has the handcuffs off, I listen to them.
cameron hanes
That's a good sign.
I talked to Tim at SHOT Show about going back in and he said that same thing.
I don't know.
It feels better that we're not having terrorist issues over here anymore.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, I really wish that everyone would come back home.
I really wish that no one was in Afghanistan.
I really wish that we weren't the police people for the world.
I really wish that we're not sending young people to die in foreign wars that don't make any sense to you or I or anybody that really knows what the fuck is going on there.
But this is the world we live in right now.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
We manage it the best we can.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Protect us.
Protect people here.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And hopefully protect people there, too.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, it's just...
cameron hanes
No, that's why you got to respect the people that are over there doing that.
And, you know, it's just like, you know, what a sacrifice, you know?
And it's, I want to never take it for granted that there are, you know, we're safe here, things are going on, but just what's the sacrifices made by people in the military, it's, I never want to forget it.
joe rogan
Yeah, it is a very controversial subject with people because if you're on the left, you want less military, you want less war, you want less violence, you want less everything, and that's a totally reasonable position.
But I think in a lot of ways it's like wildlife.
Like you're talking about it as someone who's never experienced it.
And I think once you experience it and once you've been to these parts of the world, at least my perspective based on the descriptions that I've gotten from people that have been there, that it's way more complex.
There are just parts of the world that are fucked.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
No.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
It's not black and white, that's for sure.
joe rogan
And I think it's going to take many, many generations for those parts of the world to become a better place for people to live in and sort of catch up to what we think of as civilization in the Western world.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean, you're looking at parts of the Middle East where women in Iran are risking their lives and their safety by not wearing a religious outfit.
There's all these protests where these women are on the streets not wearing the hijab and they're walking around and they risk being imprisoned.
This is fucking crazy.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
And these women are brave as hell, man.
And they're out there just saying, fuck this.
Enough already.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they're taking pictures like that.
And they're putting it up on social media.
And, you know, there's a big revolt there right now.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
People are just tired of it.
They want fucking freedom.
They see what's going on in the rest of the world, they have the internet.
They get a chance to see what's going on in America.
That's one of the things that we always have to remember about America.
Yeah, America might be fucked in some ways.
We definitely have issues.
There is more opportunity and more possibility for you to do what you want to do here than almost anywhere on the planet Earth.
cameron hanes
That's a fact.
joe rogan
That's a fact.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's a fact.
And there's more art that comes out of here, and there's more comedy that comes out of here.
There's so much more movies.
There's a lot of great shit that comes out of this one spot.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
It's a great place to...
I mean, we're blessed to live here and have...
We've only known this, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
And I couldn't imagine living someplace where it wouldn't matter how smart or how hard of a worker you are or how...
You know, whatever talented you were, you weren't getting out of there.
joe rogan
Right.
cameron hanes
And that's how it is in some places.
Yeah.
And so, you know, in here, it's not like that.
And, man, I just hope we never...
Never need to forget that.
I never want to forget that.
And I just hope other people just realize that because it's not like I've been everywhere, but I know that the challenges like the women have that you were talking about, it's like, I couldn't imagine that.
joe rogan
Yeah, look, one of the reasons why I'm pro-America is because I'm pro-human being.
And I think there's more chances for people to be who they really want to be and become what they really want to be here.
You know, and I support a lot of left-wing ideas.
Equality and freedom and gay marriage.
I think you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want to do.
I mean, go have fun.
Just be nice.
Just be you.
Just go be you.
So when, you know, people see me and they see this giant American flag behind me, and they think immediately, oh, right-wing, oh, fucking conservative, alt-right, or whatever this is.
What is this?
Yeah.
What do you support?
Imperialism?
You support this?
No, I support the idea of what America is.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's what I support.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Yeah, me too.
joe rogan
Fuck yeah!
unidentified
Woo!
joe rogan
So, El Cunning, September.
Are we back?
Same spot?
Going to the Deseret?
Is that locked in?
cameron hanes
Hell yeah.
joe rogan
That was crazy.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's a beautiful place.
cameron hanes
No, I know.
joe rogan
That was one of the most fun times I've ever had.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Well, we're going to do it again.
joe rogan
I'm excited.
cameron hanes
Me too.
joe rogan
470,000 views.
That video was a lot of fun to make too, man.
I just wish that they had put in the elk that you shot.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Your elk, you did wind up shooting an elk, but did the video that did not get the actual arrow hitting the elk on camera, is that what the issue was?
cameron hanes
It's tough.
You know, bow hunting is hard.
Bow hunting on film is even harder.
And so it's, you know, we do the best we can to tell the story.
joe rogan
I don't think it does tell the story very well.
cameron hanes
No, but we do the best we can.
It is hard.
joe rogan
I think it should be a lot longer.
That's what I think.
I think that thing should have been at least an hour.
And I think even then it wouldn't have told the whole story.
Because you look at it like...
It's one of the things that I told a friend when we were watching a hunting show before.
They're like, wow, it looks so easy.
They just go out there and they always shoot something.
I'm like, man, to shoot one of these shows...
We were watching Meat Eater.
First of all, Meat Eater is one of the rare shows that they'll have a lot of shows where they're not successful.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, I've done two different shows with them who weren't successful.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
We just go out there seven days.
cameron hanes
Well, that's most hunting.
joe rogan
Most hunting, yeah.
So when you boil all that down to 22 minutes with commercials, it just looks like inevitably you're going to get to about 18 minutes in, someone's going to shoot something.
Yay, they got it.
It seems like they're shooting things that are definitely going to be there.
But that's not the case.
cameron hanes
No.
No, there's no guarantee, especially with the bow.
joe rogan
Yes, especially with the bow.
cameron hanes
And I think, well, I mean, we can film on ourselves.
We can film on ourselves and make it as long as we want.
joe rogan
That's what I think we should do.
I've been thinking about that a lot because I was frustrated by that whole thing and this archaic idea that everything has to be 10 minutes long.
You're talking to a guy who does a three-hour podcast.
cameron hanes
We've been talking for quite a while today.
joe rogan
And millions of people listen to this.
So I just don't buy it.
I think it's an archaic...
Antiquated way of looking at things.
I don't think it's right.
And I think this idea that people have an incredibly short attention span.
Listen, people are consumers of entertainment.
And especially people who love hunting.
I watch a lot of videos.
I watch a lot of hunting videos.
I watch a lot of videos on science.
I watch a lot of shit.
I watch hours and hours of stuff.
Things that I'm interested in.
The people that are interested in elk hunting, they don't want to just see a couple guys laughing and joking around that an arrow hits a big bull and everybody's happy.
No, they want to see what happened.
What was the struggle?
There was a lot of struggle.
cameron hanes
We had to keep hammering.
joe rogan
We did have to keep hammering.
That was fun.
That one clip was hilarious.
By the way, folks, if you're watching this, if you watch that clip of Cam and I, that was not rehearsed.
That just came out of nowhere.
We were just fucking around.
cameron hanes
Keep Hammering has been around a little while.
joe rogan
It's been around a long time.
They thought that was the origins of it.
cameron hanes
That's because that's how good we sold it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Wow.
cameron hanes
That's how good we sold that thing.
joe rogan
Well, that's your sense of humor that I think most people are not aware of.
That's what you say.
You have a very funny, dry sense of humor.
That was fun.
It was a lot of fun.
So who's coming this time?
Is Adam Greentree going to come down?
cameron hanes
To Utah?
joe rogan
Yes.
cameron hanes
Oh, I don't know.
joe rogan
This is, listen, Under Armour, get your shit together.
This is what we need.
Remy Warren, Adam Greentree, John Dudley, Cam Haynes, me, Ben O'Brien.
Make it happen.
Sell it!
Wrap it up!
Make a video, an hour long.
How about just, Under Armour, let me film it.
Just let me handle this.
You guys don't know what the fuck you're doing.
cameron hanes
Ten minutes.
I know.
I think we can...
I just want to...
Man, I've always wanted to just share a hunting adventure.
joe rogan
The real hunting adventure.
cameron hanes
Give it the content, the time to develop the story.
Just let it evolve, you know?
joe rogan
Do you watch those hushing guys on YouTube?
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
Great videos.
cameron hanes
Are they good?
joe rogan
Yeah, and they got a lot of content.
And one of the things that you really get out of their content is you really get a sense of how difficult it is.
And mostly what they're doing is public land hunting.
cameron hanes
Oh, born and raised?
joe rogan
That's another group of guys.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I watch that.
joe rogan
I watch those guys too.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But one of the beautiful things about YouTube is there's no time parameters.
cameron hanes
Right, yeah.
And people, yeah, I mean, we are just kind of locked into this 22 minutes with commercials type thing from the Outdoor Channel.
And it doesn't need to be like, I was talking with Branlon Shockey about this, and he is so talented as far as a filmmaker goes.
And even in Womack, who put together our Utah.
I mean, without the handcuffs of a time restraint, I just think the sky's the limit.
joe rogan
I agree too.
I think the story should be what the story is.
And just say, just make it what it is.
I don't give a fuck if it's 40 minutes or an hour and 40 minutes.
cameron hanes
People will watch it.
joe rogan
People will watch it.
And the ones who don't, they weren't going to watch it anyway.
The idea that you get it in 10 minutes and somehow or another it's more digestible in 10 minutes, like, stop!
That's not real.
People have these weird ideas in their head about things.
Like, oh, but the statistics show that more people watch 10-minute videos.
Well, if you want to watch videos about babies chewing bubblegum or some stupid shit like that, yeah.
Yeah, the 10 minutes.
But you're supposed to be showing respect to what is one of the more difficult and misunderstood pursuits in the United States, and that's bow hunting.
It's incredibly difficult and incredibly misunderstood.
And I think it's a noble pursuit, and I think it's also one of the more intriguing things and more interesting things I've ever done in my life.
cameron hanes
Well, I know, and I don't know if you could capture it all in one film, but I just know that, you know, if somehow we could capture just more of the journey, because there's people that don't know anything about it, just, like, want to know how to get started.
I don't know if you could have one film that would do all that, but I just know that there's people hungry for knowledge out there that we're reaching, even with this podcast or with social media, that haven't been ingrained.
So, it's like we're making these films To people who are already hunters, who already know everything.
And so to them, oh, we've got to do this in a short period of time, otherwise you're going to get bored because they've done this a million times themselves.
joe rogan
That's bullshit.
cameron hanes
No, we need to make it for the masses.
joe rogan
Exactly.
cameron hanes
Because that's who we're reaching now.
I mean, it's the millions and millions and millions.
We're reaching more people than actually buy hunting licenses.
So we need to remember that.
joe rogan
Yeah, and the idea that you're even reaching hunters, that they're going to get bored after 10 minutes.
That's crazy.
cameron hanes
No, yeah, because I'm like you.
I watch all sorts of hunting stuff.
joe rogan
Especially you and me.
We're entertaining as fuck.
Let it roll!
cameron hanes
Yeah, like the, what were we saying?
Oh, yeah, with the chicken tied to the dog neck.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was one of the funniest things Cam's ever said.
He was talking about this guy, his dog, my dogs killed a few chickens.
And I'm like, fuck, how'd you get your dog to stop killing chickens?
He goes, oh, we tied a dead chicken to his neck.
And Cam goes, they should tie a dead stripper to your neck.
And it was just out of the blue, and I was fucking crying laughing.
But that was one of the funniest things you said, but there was one other one.
What was the other one?
We had a hard time remembering it.
Remember the other one that you'd said before?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was even funnier than that.
But my point is, he's got fucking stand-up comedy timing.
That sounds like something that one of my comic friends would have said.
cameron hanes
Oh, okay.
I wish I could remember the other one.
joe rogan
There was another one that was funnier.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
Fuck!
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
Goddammit.
We're going to remember.
cameron hanes
We laughed about the dead stripper tied your neck for a long time now.
unidentified
Many times.
joe rogan
Many times.
It's also, too, at the end of the day, you're kind of exhausted.
cameron hanes
You're tired.
joe rogan
You're delirious.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
You're eating dinner.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
So that's where the timing comes in.
joe rogan
Exactly.
Well, it's like those hunting camps are so much fun.
At the end of the day, you and me and Ben sitting around laughing, cracking jokes.
It's half the fun of it.
cameron hanes
The family up there, the Land family, love those guys.
joe rogan
Salt of the earth.
cameron hanes
Tom Land and his boys.
It's just fun.
They feel like family when you go back up there.
You'll feel that this year, you know?
joe rogan
Well, he's a great guy.
The whole staff they had there was fantastic.
It's just an awesome place.
And it's such a beautiful piece of land.
There's just this 240,000 acres.
cameron hanes
Yeah, and that's...
I know we're probably wrapping this up, but...
So when you talk about hunting and conservation real quick, on that piece of property, 240...
They could make more money by running cattle on it.
joe rogan
Right.
cameron hanes
Do you realize that?
But if they ran cattle on it...
That habitat would be thrashed.
The water sources would be thrashed.
All those flowers, the grouse that live there, gone.
Because it's just cattle.
But if his goal is making money, they could just do that.
But the goal is to make money, but also enhance the habitat.
And hunting is the best way to do that.
joe rogan
Yeah, and it's just a magical place.
Like the mule deer that we saw wandering around, this big mule deer.
They have everything there, all sorts of different wildlife.
And it's gorgeous country, too.
cameron hanes
It is.
joe rogan
Beautiful.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Alright, let's wrap this bitch up.
Cameron R. Haynes on Instagram.
And is that the same as Twitter?
But you don't even use Twitter, really, right?
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
Facebook.
Do you use Facebook at all anymore?
cameron hanes
A little bit.
joe rogan
People die off that, right?
Instagram's got it beat.
cameron hanes
Instagram's got it right now.
joe rogan
All right.
And next video we make, folks, will be about four hours long.
No.
We can't.
The video.
The hunting video.
cameron hanes
We're going to keep hammering.
joe rogan
We're going to keep hammering.
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