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Dec. 14, 2017 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:40:22
Joe Rogan Experience #1053 - Neal Brennan
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Main voices
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joe rogan
01:08:54
n
neal brennan
01:26:33
Appearances
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b-real
00:00
c
craig jones
00:03
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Speaker Time Text
neal brennan
Yeah, I wish because I don't have any meaning for the backseat.
joe rogan
Four, three, two, one.
Oh, fuck.
unidentified
Ladies and gentlemen, we're live!
Fuck.
joe rogan
We're live on the day of net neutrality.
We might not be broadcasting anymore.
Might be over.
I don't know how that works.
neal brennan
When does it kick in?
joe rogan
Right away.
I don't know.
I have no idea.
neal brennan
That's a great thing about it.
By the way, has there ever been like a harder time to be a citizen?
Meaning like it's just what how much I'd never had to pay this much attention I know right like come on.
It's like fucking we have to babysit It's like their children that we have to like wait.
What are they doing?
joe rogan
No, no, no, like where they used to kind of be able to take care of themselves Yeah, or seemingly could there's not one place where you can go where you can get one Are you shaking that before you open it?
unidentified
Yeah, should I not shake it?
joe rogan
You're a fucking maniac.
neal brennan
Bro, I don't give a fuck.
joe rogan
Blow it all over the place.
neal brennan
Alright, then I'll give it a second.
joe rogan
Yeah, you gotta let that fucker rest.
The worst ones are those little small ones that I have, those cayenne cleanses.
You shake those bitches, they just fucking shoot up to the ceiling.
neal brennan
Is that true?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's all fermented.
It's all carbonated, you know?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
But there's no one source where you can absolutely get 100% unbiased factual information as the news.
Everything is leaning one way or leaning another way.
And even CNN, which I used to trust all the time, they fuck up all the time.
They're always having to print retractions.
There was something that was going around today.
It's just, there's not one news source where I can say, please just give me the unbiased information with no left or right lean.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Can I get that?
neal brennan
Which we talked about beforehand.
When there's...
Like, even the idea of the New York Times...
What people don't understand is...
People don't understand journalism a lot of the time.
Like, literally, when people go, it's fake news, it's like, you know you can't print fake news because they...
You ever have anything in the New Yorker?
You ever be quoted in a New Yorker article?
They literally...
You talk to the journalist, then two different fact-checkers...
Call you to confirm what you said.
And like, is this true?
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
And I literally, this is in an article about someone else that I gave a quote for.
And like, did you say that?
And you can confirm that?
And they do that at every major journalistic outfit.
They did the New York Times, Washington Post...
Like, name the big ones.
They're not as stringent as the New Yorker because the New Yorker only comes out once a week.
But they all have fact checkers.
And the thing is, these institutions can get sued.
joe rogan
Right.
This is not a good example, but it's an example.
The Conor McGregor fight.
New York Times wrote an article about the Conor McGregor fight.
And one of the things they said, that he was covered in blood and rescued by the referee before he fell through the ropes.
I contacted them on Twitter and I said, in this day and age, you can't say things that everyone knows are false.
Millions of people watched that fight.
There was no blood.
He was not falling through the ropes and the referee rescued him.
b-real
You made that up.
joe rogan
He was outclassed and battered by a far superior boxer, which is what most boxing people expected.
That's the real story.
But you guys added a bunch of shit to it.
neal brennan
That's shading.
That's for sure, yeah.
joe rogan
But it's not just shading.
It's a straight lie.
I know it's not because it's not really...
neal brennan
It's inconsequential.
joe rogan
It's not a really significant moment.
It's not like a big moment in time and the result is the same.
But their description of the result makes you wonder, how much other things do you do this to?
How many other subjects do you flavor in this weird way?
neal brennan
What was their attraction?
Because I remember seeing you write that and I was like, oh, that's cool.
And they changed it.
joe rogan
But they still used hyperbole even in their retraction.
They said his face was completely swollen.
It wasn't.
It wasn't.
neal brennan
A quadrant of his face was swollen.
joe rogan
A tiny amount.
A little bit of swelling from a boxing match.
Not some crazy fucking Hasim Rahman shit.
Remember that one?
Where it had an iron on his head?
neal brennan
Literally the fun...
Maybe the craziest thing I've ever seen in a fight.
joe rogan
It was disgusting.
This huge hematoma growing out of his forehead.
See if you can find that.
Hasim Rahman.
Lennox Lewis, right?
Was it the Lennox Lewis fight?
neal brennan
I don't remember.
But yeah, he literally had to go to Dr. Pimple Popper.
joe rogan
Yeah, look at that.
Oh my god, Dr. Pimple Popper.
That's hilarious.
That was grotesque.
neal brennan
That was wild.
joe rogan
Yeah, that was an enormous swelling in his head.
neal brennan
He looks like a war criminal and an alien.
It's hard to do.
I don't disagree that they do shade invariably.
joe rogan
But you shouldn't.
You shouldn't.
You should tell the exact story.
The exact story was really clear for everybody that watched, the two million people plus that watched it on pay-per-view or more.
It wasn't something that you can get away with bullshitting about.
neal brennan
Okay, but this wasn't a problem five years ago.
Do you know what I mean?
It wasn't a problem day to day.
And that's the thing that I was yelling at somebody yesterday.
Once Fox News created this thing of extremely shaded shit and people saw there's a market for it, They were like, alright, we'll do that.
We'll all do that now.
And then everyone's reacting, but they don't think they're reacting.
And now the New York Times is trying to go the other way, where they hired this guy, Brett Stevens, to write op-ed pieces, and every week there's a new, like, what did you just say?
Really?
Yeah, because they're trying to be like...
They're trying to be kind of moderate or see both sides.
And a lot of people on the left are going like, but that's...
How are you seeing both sides to, like, slavery?
Or how are you seeing...
Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
Like, what's both sides of climate change?
It's all...
They're scientists and not scientists.
That's, like, those are the sides.
So why are you...
This is basically appeasement.
I guess as a, you know, consumer of this stuff...
To get into this conversation, I wasn't even talking about journalism.
I was talking about government.
I was talking about the amount of fucking work it takes just to be like, I gotta worry about statutes and fucking the FCC and fucking executive orders.
I never had to do all this.
Why is this...
So much, I don't know if it's, I mean, they would say, like, you know, to be an active democracy, it's only as good as citizens and all that shit, but it seems like we're all more involved, and it's worse.
You know what I mean?
It's way more upsetting.
It's constant upset.
It feels like havoc every single day.
joe rogan
Well, it's definitely not good, especially from the environmental side.
Whenever a president is short-sighted about the environment, that scares the shit out of me, because that has repercussions for generation upon generation.
And he's doing it for short-term money grabbing.
Like the EPA being essentially gutted.
What they're doing in Alaska where they're making roads and they're setting up mines near the salmon fisheries.
What they're doing in Utah with the monuments.
It's scary because they're just chopping away, just chopping away, and the repercussions could be forever.
We have an amazing system here in this country in terms of the amount of public land that we have and the beautiful places where you can go and check out.
All it takes is one or two assholes that have a mine, one or two assholes that allow...
Drilling for oil in these places.
All they have to do is extract resources from these public places.
And we're fucked.
And those places are ruined forever.
Not just for your kids, but for your grandchildren, for everybody.
neal brennan
Yeah, it's like, I hope you like equipment.
Because there's going to be a lot of fucking equipment at these places now.
That's the thing that I'm curious about.
Uh...
People that voted for Trump like, is this what you wanted?
joe rogan
They just didn't want a Democrat.
neal brennan
Yeah, I know.
I have a notion that they felt excluded by elitism and going to Davos and the Hamptons and all these places and the Aspen Ideas Festival and TED Talks and all that shit.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
So it's like, hey, fuck you.
But this is, uh, which I get the notion of fuck you, like, but this is like, dude, you can't tell me that Obama stressed you out on this level.
Like, the level of Trump stress that, like, is just created in the culture, that's what I was saying, like, it's havoc every day.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
It's like a fucking melee.
joe rogan
But do you feel the stress every day?
Do you, I mean, are you, like...
neal brennan
I do, like, there are days where I'm like, I can't look at my phone.
I literally can't...
Like, a couple days ago I was looking at something and it was the...
It was maybe before the...
Maybe two, three days ago.
There are days where it's so...
It's so like in the red for like cultural or political toxicity.
joe rogan
I'm just like, Jesus, I can't.
neal brennan
This is like inducing cortisol.
joe rogan
I think that's a good argument also to stay the fuck away from the news and social media for a few days a week.
neal brennan
Yeah.
There have been a few.
You see the people in the past couple days that like Facebook execs being like, we've kind of torn society apart.
Didn't mean to!
Whoops!
joe rogan
Yeah, I saw that one Facebook exec was apologizing for what they've done.
They've essentially engineered people to be programmed.
Yeah.
I mean, we've essentially engineered this thing where you're going to be addicted to it.
You're going to be tuning into it constantly.
And the things that are going to attract you the most are things that freak you the fuck out.
So that's going to take prominence.
neal brennan
Yeah.
But that, you know, there's a market.
joe rogan
There's definitely a market.
Definitely a market.
But yeah, it's just, it's a bad idea to have a popularity contest to see who controls the nukes.
It's a terrible idea, and that's what we have.
This is a real example of an old system that really shouldn't exist anymore.
neal brennan
I had an idea a couple weeks ago that I was like, I've got to run that by Joe.
As a jumping-off point for a conversation.
Robot president.
joe rogan
Ooh.
neal brennan
Do you know what I mean?
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Right.
joe rogan
Logical.
Super logical.
neal brennan
Pure logic.
Stats.
joe rogan
No emotions.
neal brennan
No emotions.
Takes all of history.
Human history.
The 2000 recorded history.
2000 years.
You know, really 200 years.
And takes it all into account.
Even takes literature into account.
Like, plots.
unidentified
Right.
neal brennan
Like, takes Shakespeare no account.
Takes plots, you know, Henry VIII, all that shit.
And then, wouldn't that, isn't that kinda what you want?
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Like, isn't that kinda what you want?
And even if they say, if the robot president says, I've come to this decision, it was 55-45.
In favor.
Because that's all, like, the older you get, I'm not 100% anything.
Like, even, I really love Louie's joke in his last special, which weirdly didn't make any top ten lists for the year.
I'm one of those weird things.
joe rogan
I listened to it on the plane back from Hawaii a couple weeks ago.
neal brennan
It's fucking great.
joe rogan
It is great.
The last, I watched it actually, the last...
Few bits were fucking killer.
Just killer.
neal brennan
Was that the one about the fingering and the...
joe rogan
Magic Mike.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
neal brennan
The fingering.
Magic Mike was great and the fingering.
joe rogan
Magic Mike, yeah.
neal brennan
Do my bidding.
God damn it.
That fucking made me laugh.
It was a great bit.
It made me laugh so goddamn hard.
I mean, this is months ago.
This is before we knew anything about the guy.
joe rogan
I did it right after I knew about him.
neal brennan
Yeah, of course.
We can get into that in a second.
But Louis did the thing about abortion that he opened with.
And he's like, if you...
They think they're killing babies.
I'd be out every day, if that's what I thought.
I just don't see it that way.
But it's the idea of, like, there's so many debates that people won't admit to any doubt about.
Like, I'm 80-20.
20%.
Abortion.
You know, eh.
I would have one, probably.
I've never had the privilege.
I've never needed to get one.
And I think if other people want to get one, cool.
But at the same time, I see what your argument is.
joe rogan
Yeah, I see both sides.
I think there's a certain time where it's a baby.
A certain amount of months in where, okay, you're killing a baby now.
unidentified
Yeah.
neal brennan
I don't know when it is.
joe rogan
I don't know when it is either.
neal brennan
But it's got to be at some point.
joe rogan
I'll tell you what, it's not the first day when it's like two cells clinging together and they become four cells.
Just get rid of those cells and that's a wrap.
neal brennan
But you would even admit like, or maybe it is.
joe rogan
Or maybe it is, yeah.
neal brennan
Or maybe it is.
I personally don't.
I'm not a scientist.
I'm not an obstetrician.
joe rogan
If we had like a soul meter in the room and like you woke up one day and your wife is pregnant and it's like 48 days in, honey, honey, look at the soul meter.
There's a new soul.
Like, whoa.
Okay, no turning back now.
Now it's a new soul.
Before then, it was just like a nesting area.
Like they were ready.
It was a prepping area for a new soul.
neal brennan
You believe that that's at 48 days.
At one day, there's no soul.
joe rogan
If you had a meter, if you had a way, obviously we don't.
neal brennan
This is in a world with a robot president and a soul meter.
joe rogan
And this is also in a world where they've proven the existence of the soul, which is just theoretical.
But if you had a thing in the room with you, sort of like when you have a pregnancy tester, like, look at this, it's registering, it's real, it's happening.
Like a soul meter.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
So you have a countdown.
Okay, it says I'm pregnant.
We have 47 days or we're pieces of shit.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because once the soul comes in...
neal brennan
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Then we're murderers, I guess?
joe rogan
Something like that, yeah.
For sure.
neal brennan
Yeah, and there are people that believe it's day one, which is like, I can understand how you think that.
I don't even...
I wouldn't even say I don't believe that.
I just don't know.
I just have no...
I don't have any feeling one way or the other.
joe rogan
If you don't interfere with the process from day one, and it goes all the way through term, you have a human.
So how can you make the argument that if you do interfere, it's nothing?
Seems like you're stopping a potential human.
neal brennan
Something's happening.
But it's the foolishness of going like, I am absolutely anything.
joe rogan
And just the reductionist idea of it being just a bundle of cells, too.
That's sort of preposterous, too.
No, it's a bunch of cells that will be a human being.
So you can't just deny the potential.
I'm not saying that a bunch of cells, I don't think it's any different.
I mean, I think if you can show me for sure that it's four cells, I think it's a complete total non-issue.
It's when you get into three months, you know, two months in, three months in, like, whoa, okay, what is this?
neal brennan
Yeah.
Again, to you.
That's your barometer.
But that's the thing I was saying.
You're not allowed to have a nuanced opinion anymore.
You just have to be like, no, I am absolutely...
You must believe all women.
Did you see that thing I posted the other day about the Me Too backlash is gonna come?
joe rogan
No, I didn't see that.
How's it gonna come?
What kind of backlash?
neal brennan
The backlash is...
The on-campus thing?
Basically, the Obama administration and Joe Biden recommended these guidelines for Title IX. So they recommended these guidelines for Title IX, basically protecting women on college campuses.
But the problem is, they throw out due process.
Literally, the idea is if you get accused, you're basically convicted.
Guy gets accused, he's thrown out of school.
And it's like, well, that's not due process.
There were all these things that were like, I'd never thought about before.
Because I want to believe, you know what I mean?
I want to believe that if a woman...
I don't believe women have much reason to lie about the shit.
joe rogan
See, well, that's not true.
I don't believe that at all.
all because I believe there's a lot of women that have grudges and they're angry and they want to make things up about men.
And I know men where that's happened to before.
I know men who've been falsely accused of rape and the woman dropped it and told the police that she was just mad at him and she had a vendetta.
That happens.
It doesn't happen a lot.
neal brennan
Right.
That's what I mean.
I don't think it never happens.
I just think that it's a minor.
I think it's just a minor.
joe rogan
I don't know if it's minor or not.
Anthony Cooney has said something that's really...
He goes, calling all women liars is just as crazy as saying all women say the truth.
neal brennan
Right.
Yeah, that's true.
joe rogan
You're going to have a certain percentage of human beings that are deceptive.
neal brennan
Which is why I say 97% of women are liars.
joe rogan
No, I think it's...
I mean, I don't even want to speculate about what the stats are.
The problem is, if you're a person who didn't do anything to someone, and then they're accusing you of doing something to them, and then it ruins your life, that's devastating.
And that happens.
neal brennan
So, I've been having this conversation.
I posted it, and I put on Twitter, hey, if I'm wrong, if this is wrong, yell at me here.
Go ahead.
unidentified
Okay.
neal brennan
And I was surprised by how few people yelled.
No one really got mad, because when you see what the recommendations were, people believe in due process and the rule of law.
They should.
And people know that mob mentalities are not good, and they're not American.
I mean, they're not the spirit of America.
They are pretty American, actually, but they're not the letter of America.
And it was kind of baffling that Obama and the administration...
So what's happening is...
So guys are getting kicked out of school.
They're getting, you know, what these...
The colleges are following the guidelines.
And due process is thrown away.
Guys get, you know, thrown out of school.
And then they sue the school.
And guess what?
A lot of them are winning.
joe rogan
Yeah, of course.
neal brennan
Because it's unconstitutional, what the school did.
So it's this weird thing of...
It's such a fucking sticky situation.
Because after I posted, a few female friends of mine texted or called me.
And one of them said that she was at NYU and was having sex with a guy.
He tried to put in her ass.
She was like, no.
She said no.
He said, can I? She said no.
And he did anyway.
She just froze and was like stunned, frozen, silent.
He finishes.
No alcohol?
No.
And it just becomes, he said, she said.
And it's like, what should we do in a society about a situation like that?
And I truly don't know.
I truly am like, I have no fucking idea.
joe rogan
Well, if she said no and he did it anyway, that's a real fucking problem.
neal brennan
Yes, exactly.
That's rape.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
That's rape.
But also, then it just becomes what...
It's a he said, she said thing.
There's no evidence that she said no.
We need better lie detectors.
joe rogan
We need real lie detectors.
In situations like this where it's one person's word against the other and the result's critical, I don't know if that's really possible, though.
I don't know of anything that exists or any technology that's on the pipeline.
neal brennan
No, there isn't.
So a friend of mine jokingly said that all guys and women need to wear body caps.
joe rogan
Like cops.
neal brennan
Yeah.
Like that's kind of where it is because, again, it is one of these like, shit, I don't...
It might be.
You kind of think like, oh, yeah, no, it's probably...
It's always pretty cut and dry, da, da, da, da.
And then you hear a thing like that and you're like...
You know what?
I don't know what to...
joe rogan
But then no one's gonna fuck you.
neal brennan
Should that guy get...
joe rogan
It's gonna be on camera.
neal brennan
Right.
Now we're into...
Because I go, oh guys shouldn't get kicked out of school.
There should be due process.
Of course, there should be due process.
Then I hear a story like that and I'm like, fuck man, I don't know.
Maybe that guy shouldn't be able to go to school.
I don't know.
I don't know.
joe rogan
So he lied and he said that didn't happen?
neal brennan
She didn't press charges or anything.
Oh, okay.
joe rogan
Which, by the way, is super common.
So when you take into account rape...
The number of rapes that get reported versus the number of rapes that don't get reported.
neal brennan
It's a drop in the bucket.
And when guys go, well, why don't girls report it?
Dude, you don't like going to jury duty.
And that's a week.
You think a girl wants to talk about her fucking vagina for a year and a half?
joe rogan
Not just that, the stigma of running around knowing that everybody knows you were raped.
Having that feeling where people are judging you or staring at you or talking about you for nothing that you did.
neal brennan
No, nothing.
It's like literally as these things happen Because you read these, a lot of the times it feels like the choice for women is, as it's happening, it's like, fuck, I have to make my life about this now.
My whole life has to be about this for at least a year and a half.
Cops, lawyers, fucking court dates.
Just like a nightmare.
A fucking nightmare.
That you likely did nothing wrong.
You just and now it's like getting it's like getting in a in a horrible car accident or something and again I Don't know what the solution is because as a comic my first and Being contrarian I go like well, what did you what did they do?
What do they do all the all the things and it's like no most of these things are Wrong place the wrong time with a piece of shit.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah I mean Due process is significant, though.
It's gigantic.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
You have to have it.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
Look at what happened with the UVA case in Rolling Stone magazine.
They printed this stupid fucking lie, this crazy story that really becomes a problem because there's real rape going on all the time on campuses.
That's happening for real.
neal brennan
I don't believe that that girl wasn't raped.
joe rogan
The UVA story?
neal brennan
Yeah.
I believe that she was raped.
I don't think...
It was the 15th, like the way something happened.
Are you sure?
unidentified
What do you mean?
joe rogan
Why do you think that?
Because I think they proved that she wasn't even there, and that she was never in that fraternity.
neal brennan
Oh, there was no Roger or any of that shit?
joe rogan
No, the people were all fake.
neal brennan
Then I maybe didn't read it up.
Any follow up?
joe rogan
I think that there's so much evidence pointing to the fact that it was all made up that there's very little possibility that something actually happened to her.
I think they've completely dismissed that.
I think they think it was just a girl who just made some crazy shit up.
Versus the mattress girl thing.
The mattress girl, one, was a weird one because she definitely had sex with that guy and she definitely wanted to have sex with that guy because she was messaging him about sex and about, you know, I think she said something about bring condoms and you're going to put it in my butt.
Just a bunch of crazy shit.
It was sex talk back and forth.
And then she just decided this is an amazing way to be a martyr and to be a victim and to bring that fucking mattress everywhere, including at her commencement speech.
That's a different sort of case.
And that kid is now suing.
That kid is now suing that university, and I hope he wins.
neal brennan
Yeah, again, I hope he wins, because I think due process is as important.
It's literally a tie for first between protecting women and protecting the Constitution.
Yeah, I don't even, the thing that bothers me about even talking about UVA or Columbia is it makes the story about lying women, which is just fucking not, they're the outliers.
joe rogan
Yes, they're the outliers.
neal brennan
By an extreme, because they're the outliers of the people that come forward.
joe rogan
Absolutely.
You can't just completely ignore them in the equation, right?
neal brennan
Well, that's why you need due process.
joe rogan
Yeah, that is exactly why you need.
And you know, we also have to stop thinking out of it as men and women.
It's human beings.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Human beings involved in these situations, and we have to treat them like eagles.
Do you know the story about Occidental College in L.A.? Which story?
Boy and girl get drunk, text each other back and forth, I'm coming over, do you have condoms?
Yeah, come on over.
She comes over, or they have sex with each other, and then her friends convince her that because she was drunk, she could not consent, and that it's rape.
Remember, that was a big thing for a while, that if you're not drunk, you can't consent.
That was like, for a year or two, they tried to push that until they realized, oh my god, that makes everyone a rapist.
neal brennan
I mean, having said that, I think that the...
Part that alcohol plays in this shit...
joe rogan
Giant.
neal brennan
...is so fucking massive and nobody ever brings it up.
joe rogan
It's giant.
Yeah.
If alcohol was complicit in all the things that people did while drunk the same way the prescription drugs...
unidentified
Out of business.
joe rogan
Yeah, they'd be out of business.
neal brennan
Out of business.
joe rogan
So this guy and this gal have some sex and it's consensual, 100%.
But after the fact, her friends tell her, you couldn't consent because you were drunk.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Even though he was drunk, too.
neal brennan
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
So, um...
People get told.
Authorities get involved.
He gets kicked out of school.
She does not.
They don't call it rape.
They don't press charges.
He didn't do anything actually wrong in terms of the letter of the law, since they're both intoxicated and willing and consensual.
But they kick him out of college.
And so he's like, well, what the fuck, man?
She's drunk too, so I got raped as well.
Do you understand that?
It can't just be the man that is doing the raping if you're both intoxicated.
How the fuck am I supposed to be able to consent?
So the idea is that this is as much of a male versus female thing.
neal brennan
I had a conversation with a female friend of mine recently, and the conclusion, one of the conclusions was, men don't see women as humans.
Meaning, they're like...
Less.
Yes, it's other.
It's other.
It's like, you're not...
I'm not saying you're not a human, but you're not a man.
You know what I mean?
Like, there's something of like, the way men treat women is not equal.
It's just, it's other.
It's like you're in this other category.
joe rogan
Well, they don't understand them that much because they're not one of them.
And if they don't have a good relationship with their mother, it's even worse.
Especially if they were raised by their dad alone.
Those guys are the sketchiest guys of all.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
I'm generalizing, honestly.
neal brennan
I can't even think of one guy like that, but yeah.
Meaning I don't think I know any guys like that, but yeah.
joe rogan
I know a guy like that.
And sometimes even guys that were only raised by their mom are sketchy if their mom hates women.
But the whole thing is, I mean, look, it's just real hard when you start doing this men and women thing, right?
Because you're prone to generalizations.
There's no getting away from it.
But Men want sex from women, so they're pursuing women.
And do you know any men that you're friends with that you see over time that become more and more bitter towards women because they're getting rejected over and over?
And they associate women with bad feelings.
They associate women with negativity.
I think men look at women like they're trying to score on a team.
neal brennan
Yeah.
Dude, it's first base, second base, third base.
It's literally built into the language of how we...
It is a thing that guys conquer.
So it ends up being...
I likened in the past to Saudi Arabia, where fucking towel heads, because they won't give us the fucking oil.
No, they don't like you.
They don't want to give you...
But that doesn't mean that they're shitty.
Anymore than it means you're shitty if you don't want this fucking kombucha like you just don't your body doesn't want it doesn't mean that her body doesn't want you like there's but it makes guys it hurts their feelings and it makes them crazy and it also deals with these evolutionary mechanisms that are designed to make sure that we breed It becomes a significant issue for you.
joe rogan
You want to figure out, how do I get this gal to like me to the point where she wants to have sex with me?
Oh, I've got to buy the right cars.
I've got to wear the right watch.
I've got to do this and do that and say the right things and be a gentleman and hold open doors and all these things that we do.
They're like, well, why do men hold open doors?
Do it to be a gentleman.
No.
To show that they're a preferential mate.
That's what they're doing.
They're trying to con you into taking that dick.
neal brennan
Yes.
It speaks to your bit about invention.
The thing that your invention thing now is that the reason the thing of like why women haven't invented shit is because they don't have to.
They don't fucking have to.
joe rogan
It's also the way their mind works.
You know, the hunter-gatherer mindset.
It's very different with the females in the tribe versus the males.
And we're still dealing with the echoes and all that.
neal brennan
By the way, for people that are shallow, we're talking about misogyny right now.
Just so you know.
We're talking, in theory, about misogyny.
These are not views that either of us hold.
joe rogan
In fact, the opposite.
And I have all daughters.
I'm used to being around little girls.
I know about women more now.
I understand them than I ever did.
neal brennan
How would you...
How different would your behavior have been 20 years ago if you had the wisdom you have now?
joe rogan
It would be way different.
It would be way different.
I never did anything horrible.
My record is clean.
I stop and think about assault.
But what I am...
What I am more aware of now is the inner workings of like a female from child to adulthood.
I understand that they're just so...
There's a different evolutionary path for their sex, for their gender.
There's a whole thing going on that they want to protect the nest.
They want to find a man.
There's a lot of guys that look at a girl who wants a successful guy.
Like, oh, she's fucking shallow.
She just wants a bunch of shit.
She wants someone to pay for everything.
There is an evolutionary path where the woman is looking for a man who shows that he is capable of taking care of things while she is held up Being pregnant and taking care of the young.
It is a natural instinct.
It is undeniable.
And there are some women that are super strong and super motivated and they don't have that instinct.
Their instinct is to just have a kid, give it to a nanny, get back to work as quick as possible.
neal brennan
But I'll tell you what, I bet their husband's tall.
You know what I mean?
There's still those things of, like, the evolutionary shit that you can't get rid of.
Your body wants to fuck a tall guy.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
neal brennan
For protection, all that shit.
joe rogan
For all that shit.
Money, height, strength.
neal brennan
Provisions.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
And the ability to overcome...
Significant situations like whenever there's a like a guy that falls apart under stress is one of the most unattractive things to women ever because There was a study where like that I think Whitney and I have talked about where guys Women don't like when guys cry in front of them.
neal brennan
They say they want an emotional guy What they mean is I want you to listen to my emotions.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't want you to be emotional I need you to be a fucking marine Yeah, and if you're gonna be emotional and cry about things, it better be like a brave display of emotions.
neal brennan
Yes, one of your fallen brothers!
Yeah, like a baseball player's retiring.
Some physical thing about the passage of time in brotherhood.
That's it.
joe rogan
Yeah, maybe that's it.
Maybe your daughter's birthday party and you're so happy.
neal brennan
Yeah, that's the portfolio.
joe rogan
Yeah, but the ability to respond to pressure is a giant one.
The ability to provide is a giant one.
Physical features, like having strong features, having strong genetics.
The woman has to know, like, genetically.
It has to feel like she's being protected.
And then there's some women that don't like that at all.
There's some women that like bitch men.
And we know those women.
And they're the really domineering, powerful women.
And they have these men that are, like, quiet.
they're sort of submissive.
Yeah.
I mean, that's okay too.
But these patterns that exist, they exist because for the longest time, I mean, look, it's a weird situation where a woman has to be pregnant for nine months.
That's a long time.
Imagine picking a man.
Imagine if you're a man and you're picking a woman and you have to decide when you're meeting this woman, is this chick going to be able to keep it together with me while I'm held up, literally held up for a year, like a whole year.
For one year, I'm going to be stuck in this situation, and then from then, the next 18 years, I'm going to be responsible for the infant that comes out of this union.
That's so different than our thought process.
It's so different.
The consequences are so much different.
neal brennan
Well, men want...
Men only think about...
To me, men want sex.
They don't think about...
They literally...
And then it's just black.
joe rogan
Sure.
neal brennan
It's like sex and then just like black into the distance.
Infinite blackness.
Whereas women do think...
Which is why it's a...
A more intricate decision having sex with somebody.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Because it is like the long-term shit.
Whereas we just...
Wait, a baby comes out of this?
I'm not even...
joe rogan
That's all I'm looking for.
neal brennan
Since when?
joe rogan
Just looking to come.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Women are looking for sex too, but they also, a good percentage of them at least, are looking to be a mom.
It's just something that they want.
It's a lot of...
There's a reason why there's 7 billion people.
It's not because being a mom is so completely unattractive.
They want to do it.
neal brennan
I want to talk about some of the stuff with the sexual harassment stuff is the stuff that people are not...
is like the alcohol thing.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
Like, I've never thought drinking around your co-workers was smart.
joe rogan
No.
neal brennan
Like, literally, I'm like, why the fuck would you want...
Rap parties, I try to get out of as soon as possible.
I'll stay for, like, a beer.
And I don't even understand why a company would...
Have it.
I mean, I guess it's good for morale.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're not thinking in terms of the potential hazards.
They're just thinking, oh, it'd be a fun way for everybody to cut loose.
neal brennan
A buddy of mine's producer of his show, and he basically, a couple weeks ago, was like, we need to have rules for engagement.
So he's made it so like...
There are going to be no meetings where there's only two people.
unidentified
Wow.
neal brennan
Shit where it's like, no, no, no, no.
joe rogan
What about you and a dude?
neal brennan
I think there cannot be...
I think two dudes can meet.
joe rogan
What about Kevin Spacey?
neal brennan
Yeah, again.
joe rogan
Just trying to come.
neal brennan
He's definitely not trying to make babies.
Which is why he was like three people.
joe rogan
He's a perfect example because he's just trying to come.
neal brennan
He's definitely not trying to make babies.
A girl DMed me the other day talking about how Kevin Spacey harassed her.
unidentified
Really?
neal brennan
Yep.
Yes.
joe rogan
He's trying to fuck women too?
neal brennan
Yep.
He just wanted, he liked the power.
He liked the action, it seems like.
joe rogan
Wow, that's interesting.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Did you ever see his brother?
neal brennan
No.
joe rogan
Oh man, it's a trip.
His brother dresses like a combination of Ringo Starr and Elton John and just is a completely out there guy and just talks about the horrors of Kevin growing up with his insanely abusive dad.
neal brennan
And it was Kevin's dad, too?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
neal brennan
Just horrible shit.
I've never even heard of the guy.
joe rogan
Rape and just awful things.
Just awful, awful abuse.
neal brennan
Well, yeah, that was like the thing.
joe rogan
This is his brother.
neal brennan
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, his brother dresses like that all the time.
Like a Rod Stewart.
neal brennan
His brother's Ron Wood.
My goodness.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That's his brother.
And it's just...
They just got fucking abused when they were children.
Just fucking abused.
Some monster created them.
neal brennan
Yeah, that's what...
What's his name?
Morgan Spurlock yesterday.
Talking about...
Did you see his thing?
joe rogan
I heard about it.
I heard about it this morning.
neal brennan
You should read it because it's like pretty like...
He owns up to stuff, which I get that impulse, because I don't have any big stains on my record, but I'm like...
joe rogan
Well, he had someone accuse him of rape in college.
neal brennan
Yes, and he also settled with the girl he worked with.
joe rogan
From a sexual harassment.
neal brennan
Sex pants or hot pants.
That's it?
In front of everybody.
Yeah.
But he was like, I basically would just...
He did it...
Like, sex pants!
Like, in front of everyone.
And so when she was quitting, she basically said, like, I'm gonna tell people.
joe rogan
Right.
That you call me sex pants.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, you can't do that.
But you can do that to you.
neal brennan
But in the confession, everybody sort of...
Puts their excuse in the confession, or a lot of people do.
It's kind of like the I have daughters thing.
joe rogan
Right, right.
As a father of daughters.
unidentified
Yes.
neal brennan
Oh.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Well, in that case...
joe rogan
Well, now I understand.
neal brennan
But he put in that he was abused, and that he's an alcoholic, and all this stuff that was like...
I don't know, man.
Maybe that's a different statement.
No one will just go like, I fucked up.
People hate admitting That they were wrong.
Even in these apologies goes, for the people I may have damaged.
There's no may.
You did it.
It happened.
I don't know if they do it for legal reasons, but a lot of the time it's like, for any anguish I may have caused, that puts it on them.
Where it's like, no, you did it.
joe rogan
Depending on what the action is, right?
So, like, if he's talking about the rape in college, you know, you read the story, the way he wrote it, it's like, okay, you kind of did it when she said don't do it.
That's what it seems like.
And then she started crying.
neal brennan
I don't...
The way he told it...
joe rogan
Yeah, it's not very specific.
neal brennan
It's like it...
Again, this goes to the rules.
I've been doing this joke on stage.
I have a nightclub routine that I do, Joe.
You've got to come see it.
10.15 tonight.
I would love for you to come.
In fact, would you like to introduce me?
unidentified
Oh my god.
neal brennan
Sex is the most consequential thing we can do with our bodies, yet we can't talk about it beforehand.
So we just have to go like, are you thinking what I'm thinking?
If I'm wrong, I'm going to jail?
Sweet.
It's this huge thing, but we can't talk about it.
joe rogan
But it wasn't a huge thing in terms of the communication aspect of it until recently.
I mean, in the 1970s, the 1980s, people did a lot of talking before they fucked.
neal brennan
No, but I also think that women didn't have as many rights.
I think now that women are like, wait a minute.
joe rogan
But women want sex too, right?
Agreed.
So if a man and women look at each other and they start making out, next thing you know, they're grabbing dicks.
neal brennan
Yes.
I'm of the mind, though, that women...
It's in my understanding of women's nature that they want mystery and they want spontaneity as part of the package of sex.
That's what literally turns them on.
joe rogan
Mystery.
neal brennan
Mystery.
joe rogan
Like a mask?
neal brennan
Like a cape?
You got one?
You got one?
joe rogan
I should get a cape.
neal brennan
Remember Attell's old joke that women love mystery, which is why whenever my girlfriend leaves the room, I take a shit in one of her shoes.
LAUGHTER Hotel literally has a great one-liner for every occasion.
unidentified
For everything.
joe rogan
He's so funny.
neal brennan
So, it's built in to want mystery, so we literally can't talk about it beforehand.
You ever try to talk, you ever go, you can't say, hey, I'd like to go have sex now.
You have to go like, let's go look at my stamps or whatever, you know what I mean?
Whatever euphemistic thing is.
Hey, come up and look at my mattress.
I got an egg cart.
Whatever.
Whatever your ruse to get her up there.
Because you can't say you want to have sex because it's about shame.
A lot of it's the mystery thing, but then there's also women can't openly go like, yes, I would like that also.
joe rogan
Yeah, but after you date him for a while, you can.
neal brennan
Yes.
Agreed.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Once you've done it a couple of times, then it's like, hey, this will be fun.
neal brennan
Let's do this.
Yes.
I think it takes longer than a few times.
unidentified
Really?
neal brennan
To get there.
joe rogan
Maybe that's you, bro.
neal brennan
Maybe that's me.
That's not me, bro.
I've always been weak, bro.
unidentified
You know me.
neal brennan
I ain't nothing but a bitch, bro.
joe rogan
I wonder, man.
I wonder how we're going to get past this culturally.
neal brennan
I don't, and that's, so what I've been talking to people about is like, so there needs to be rules of engagement, and like, I think guys would be fine with scheduling it.
The thing about the consent, because there was a thing in that article about that thing that they used to have at Antioch College like 20 years ago where it was like, I want to touch your breasts now.
joe rogan
Yes!
neal brennan
I know.
I know.
But I believe guys would be fine with that.
I really do.
Because I think guys are like, wait, I'm going to get to touch Boop at 12.06?
Great.
joe rogan
Yeah, but that whole, like, can I touch your breasts now?
Yes.
Can I take your pants off?
Not yet.
Okay.
And then you go back to make it now.
Can I take your pants off now?
Okay.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You ever see that video?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's preposterous.
neal brennan
Yes, but what other answer is there?
joe rogan
This poor guy.
The guy in the video, they make it like the lowest test guy available, who just like this weird beta male.
The whole thing is just so strange.
neal brennan
I know!
joe rogan
What are you trying to do?
neal brennan
But if you look at this, you know, scientifically, what's the answer?
joe rogan
Gotta get to know people better before you fuck them.
That's a big one.
Like, the courtship, like, period should be longer.
neal brennan
I agree.
I mean, I've been implemented that in my own life where I'm like, I don't because I don't because I know once I sleep with somebody, I'll feel guilty.
And if I don't want to see him again and they'll be mad.
Yeah, that's so I just try to part.
I just try to put it off for as long as I possibly can and then decide, do I even want?
Because a lot of times I've had like friends and I've talked about where you sleep with somebody because you can't think of an excuse not to.
unidentified
You know what I mean?
neal brennan
Where you're like, ah, I didn't, yeah, I guess I'll go back to your place.
unidentified
Let's do it.
neal brennan
And then you don't even, you know you don't want to see him again.
joe rogan
Oh, that's the worst.
neal brennan
You know you don't want to see him again, but they're like going for it.
You're like, okay, I guess.
joe rogan
The problem is once you're engaged, once you're locked and loaded and you're there and you're like, probably take this to the end.
neal brennan
Yeah.
I'd be a fool.
joe rogan
I'd be a fool not to.
neal brennan
Disrespectful.
joe rogan
Stare a gift horse in the mouth.
What the fuck does that even mean?
A gift horse?
Is it like looking at a horse's teeth?
Is that the idea behind that?
Like to make sure it's not too old?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
What a weird expression.
Stare a gift horse in the mouth.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
How is that one still around?
Who the fuck is looking at horses?
neal brennan
Yeah, well, there's a lot of sayings from horse types.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's a big one.
neal brennan
Yeah, but so there is the thing of like, just wait.
But again, that's where male nature comes in.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
Male nature doesn't like waiting.
Male nature does not like waiting.
Male nature does not like patience.
Male nature also is...
Testosterone itself...
Begets risky behavior.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
neal brennan
And a lot of it...
Some of it ends up in crime.
Some of it ends up in fucking...
In, you know, electricity.
Or the Wright brothers.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
And it's like just harnessing it for the right...
Thing.
You know, it's like the...
Because the male character is...
It is a lot of it is...
Some of the shit is toxic.
joe rogan
Well, testosterone, in a lot of ways, is power.
And with power comes responsibility.
But I say that, I don't mean it's power like that estrogen isn't power.
I mean, there's fuel to testosterone.
When you have testosterone...
What it's doing is it's providing you a certain amount of ambition, a certain amount of desire, a certain amount of lust, and that's the mechanism that a lot of men use to get things going in their life.
And some guys don't.
I know a lot of men who are aggressive testosterone males who are just chasing pussy and not doing anything with their life.
And they've become addicted to that, and it's become a major distraction, and usually their career suffers.
Yeah.
Usually those guys, their career is in a shitter.
neal brennan
I think we may be thinking of the same person.
unidentified
Probably.
joe rogan
We know a lot of guys like that.
neal brennan
I was talking to my friend Michelle Wolf who's got an HBO special that's really good.
joe rogan
Is that the nice ladies?
I heard that's really good.
neal brennan
We talk about this shit constantly and I was like, men want power, right?
Men want to dominate.
Like, that's our thing.
Like, I'm gonna expand the...
I gotta, you know, it's like, that's capitalism, that's, uh, that's, uh, empire, that's everything.
It's just expand, expand, expand, power, power, power, power.
And it's like, men want...
It's the Scarface thing.
First you get the money, then you get power, then you get the women.
And I was like, what do...
Do women want power?
And she's like, no.
They don't really...
Women want control.
If that makes sense.
Like, they don't want Empire.
They want you to...
They want to be able to depend on you.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
For...
I think fear is fine.
joe rogan
Depending on you, again, we're going back to those natural instincts that a mother needs the father to be the one who's going to watch over her and provide.
And that sounds sexist, right?
People don't like that.
Well, the woman doesn't need a man to provide anymore.
I understand that.
You're right.
You don't, for the most part.
I'm not saying that women aren't equal to men in terms of their ability to do things.
But what I am saying is there are certain inherent instincts that we have that are left over.
There's also a lot of weird shit, right?
With this domination and submissive thing that men and women have, there's also rape fantasies.
There's also weird S&M shit.
There's a lot of weird stuff that people have.
neal brennan
Yes, that's just built into the operating system.
joe rogan
Right, and your operating system is probably going to be different than Jamie's and different than mine.
There's massive variables to try to find them.
I used to date a girl, and she used to want me to just choke her all the time.
She would grab my hand and put it on her neck.
neal brennan
I would think more girls, because of your size, would want that.
Whenever I see a girl, like, you never see a tiny girl with just a monster of a dude?
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
And I always want to say to the women, like, oh, you like getting fucking railed, huh?
You don't like, you fucking like to get, you like to almost get murdered every time, huh?
That's your thing.
joe rogan
Some girls like that.
neal brennan
It's weird.
Yeah, like, there's a ton of girls that like that.
And again, and I think we've talked about this before, it's because girls never really saw porn before 1998, 99. So now they're seeing the full, like, all the options, and they're going, oh, yeah, Chogun's fun.
joe rogan
Oh, that's what I want.
I want someone to spit in my mouth.
Grab my fucking hair.
unidentified
Wow!
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because otherwise they learn about that stuff while they're doing it.
Like a guy spanks them and they're like, yeah, spank me again.
neal brennan
Yeah, like, oh, but no.
I mean, wait, remember when you spanked me?
joe rogan
Well, I want you to spank me because I want you to spank me.
I don't want you to spank me because you want to spank me.
neal brennan
Yes.
And it's like, okay, wait.
joe rogan
Big difference.
neal brennan
What?
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
I dated a girl once who told me she wanted me to rape her.
And I said, okay.
But if you want me to rape you, then it's not raping you.
And she goes, and she was like, she was like halfway joking around.
She was like halfway joking around, but she had some weird shit.
Like she wanted me to grab the back of her head and force it on my dick.
Like she liked that.
She got off on that.
And I go, yeah, but the only way that I can do that is if I know that you want me to do that.
Like, I can't...
I can't rape you.
neal brennan
I can do it, but it's not...
I'm not, like...
Whenever girls want rough shit, I'm like, yeah, I can get there.
joe rogan
Right, but here's the thing.
The saying you want someone to rape, the problem with the rape thing is if we just go through this, are you going to fight back?
Are you going to say no?
If I keep going, that's still rape.
Even though you said you wanted me to rape you, if you say no and keep going, ultimately it just wound up staying the way it was.
We never went fully into the rape fantasy because I was super perturbed by it.
I was like, this could go terrible.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, you can't just...
And also, I don't want ever to get sexually aroused by that.
I don't want to be connected with that.
Because I think that, like, I stayed a girl, and she used to like to rub her feet on my dick, and for a while I had, like, this foot fetish thing going on.
You know what I mean?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
And, like, I had it for years.
neal brennan
But she started it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, she was into it.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
She would, like, suck on my toes and shit.
She was a freak.
But that thing became like a sexually arousing thing to me.
I'd look at girls' feet and I would get excited by them.
For years.
Yeah.
If you had a girl who wanted you to smack her around.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I have a friend who likes that.
He's into that.
And he dates girls that are into that.
And he's like, they'll send them pictures.
neal brennan
Probably on their own website.
joe rogan
They'll send him pictures of bruises that he left on them.
I'm like, Jesus Christ, dude.
He's like, yeah, if it goes ugly, it's going to go real ugly for me.
Because it's consensual, but what proof does he have that this is consensual?
I don't want to get sexually attracted to that.
I don't want that to be like the foot fetish thing where you become that.
That's your thing.
I'm really into smacking girls around and holding them down.
neal brennan
Yeah.
Because then you gotta like, that's what you need.
joe rogan
Then you'd have to go to Craigslist.
You'd have to like, go full on.
Yeah, you have to.
You have to like say, look, this is what I'm looking for very specifically.
Is this cool with you?
neal brennan
I come to you with a heavy heart.
joe rogan
But then the problem with that is, like, you know, how do you know that the woman wants that every time?
You know, there's gonna be times where they know.
neal brennan
I know, that's what I'm saying about, like, if I'm guessed wrong, I'm gonna do it, which is where you need...
That's where consent comes in.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
That's where, like...
Consent and I again because women are physically weaker in general than men in in When sex it has to be them pitching it yes in a way like because otherwise Especially if it's physical yeah a buddy mine is huge physically huge a girl said Choke me and he was like I'll fucking so he just went like What is it, elbow?
joe rogan
She wanted an elbow choke?
neal brennan
She wanted like a fucking real, like, real, and he was like, I'll kill you.
And so he literally was so scared that he just kind of like put his forearm up against it.
joe rogan
And just probably called her ex-boyfriend as soon as he was done.
neal brennan
It's also crazy how, fine.
joe rogan
Get your choke game.
neal brennan
Yeah, it's also crazy how...
How hard they want you to choke them.
Where it's like, oh, you really want...
I don't know.
I don't want to...
It literally just feels like, hang me off the roof.
Hey!
Hang me off the roof, and then...
joe rogan
I wonder what that is, too.
Why does that feel good?
neal brennan
Well, it speaks to evolution.
Yeah.
Consensual sex just started about 3,000 years ago.
joe rogan
If that.
neal brennan
Yeah.
I'm being generous.
joe rogan
Yeah, 3,000 years ago was probably an option.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
You get asked.
I don't know.
neal brennan
Yeah.
Just out of respect to your brothers.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, shit, like...
It's just...
It's a part of, like, animals.
neal brennan
Yeah, consensual sex is like that thing of, like, the universe is this old and life on Earth is that old.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Non-consensual sex is this long and consensual sex is a fucking tiny sliver.
joe rogan
I think the good about all of this stuff, all this Me Too stuff, is that...
It's going to force human beings to reevaluate their behavior and that is what moves evolution culturally.
unidentified
That's correct.
joe rogan
Cultural evolution is moving.
neal brennan
Yeah, and also I'm fucking, as a guy who roots for the underdog, fucking, and justice, fucking, I'm fucking so happy for women.
unidentified
Yeah.
neal brennan
So happy for women.
joe rogan
I think we need, I think we need laws, like unbelievably brutal laws when it comes to pills that people drop in drinks.
When it comes to like the Cosby thing, I heard another story the other night about that.
And I I just that freaks me out That's the one that freaks me out I think the most because I feel like that's like straight sociopath shit Yeah, you you want this from some person and you just feel free to pop drop something their drink and sit back and wait and watch and watch Yeah kick in I had a girl accused me of doing that to her whoa terrifying In Vegas.
neal brennan
Hide a Chappelle show.
Like literally almost to the week.
And maybe a month after the Fear Factor sketch, Joe.
Thanks again.
And so meet a girl in Vegas.
Long story short, we mutual friends.
We meet for a drink.
At a bar at the Hard Rock Cafe.
Or Hard Rock Hotel.
And I get there.
She's drinking a mixed drink.
And a buddy of mine, our mutual friend, is like, hey, I'm having a party in my room.
You guys want to come?
And we're like, yeah, cool.
We'll come up.
We have a beer.
Me and her.
And then we go up to my buddy's room.
On our way to my buddy's room.
She is like, I don't...
We're walking across the casino.
She's like, I don't feel good.
Like, I don't feel, like, 100%.
And I was like, why don't...
Okay, I was like, sit down.
Like, sit down at, like, a slot machine.
And I was like, I'll go get us drinks.
And she's like, will you give me a beer?
I was like, no, I'll get you a water.
Like, I'm not fucking...
So I come back with two waters.
And she's like, yeah, I just feel, like, way more fucked up than I should be.
Like, I feel like somebody put something in my drink.
And I was like, not thinking...
The double entendre of this, I go, do you want to go back to your room?
And she looks at me and goes, I think you put something in my drink.
And runs.
And I chased her for like 10 feet and I was like, I can't chase a girl.
Like, I can't, I can't chase this girl.
joe rogan
So, whoa, how well did you know her?
neal brennan
Not well at all.
I met her on a Tuesday, and this was a Friday.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
neal brennan
So for three hours, I was like, maybe I'm going to jail.
I didn't do anything, but I couldn't prove I didn't do anything.
joe rogan
Almost it would be a move at that point to call the police.
And say, someone just accused me of putting something in their drink.
I absolutely didn't.
Could you please do a toxicology exam on her?
She might just be drunk and crazy.
neal brennan
Yeah.
Looking back, thinking back now, I realize it was at a casino, so there's cameras everywhere.
joe rogan
Right.
But could the cameras have recorded your...
neal brennan
Yeah, could the cameras have picked up me fucking dropping a...
joe rogan
Oh, right.
neal brennan
Like, maybe they weren't high resolution enough.
What year?
unidentified
2004. They probably were.
joe rogan
Well, they're there to like prevent stealing, right?
And then gambling tricks.
So they must be able to see like your hands.
neal brennan
They can zoom in, I think.
But how, you know, whenever you see it, it's all kind of like kind of pixelated.
But after three hours, she finally like called me and was like, Hey, I know, because I called her, I was like, hey, just saying, I didn't poison you.
unidentified
Right.
neal brennan
And I don't think anyone would believe I put, like, I have no reason to poison, whatever.
joe rogan
Well, you wouldn't do it anyway.
neal brennan
Right.
joe rogan
It's like, it's not you.
Like, you didn't do it because you wouldn't do it.
neal brennan
Of course.
But I would have said the same thing about Bill Cosby.
joe rogan
Would you have?
neal brennan
Oh, did I ever tell you this story about Bill Cosby?
joe rogan
No.
neal brennan
So...
So I dated a girl in like 05, 06, 07 in New York.
Beautiful girl, mixed race, and like cool, whatever, great.
And she used to talk about...
Bill Cosby came up one time.
She was like, oh, Mr. Cosby, what a sweet man.
And I was like, what?
What?
What are you, huh?
She's like, oh yeah, one time I was on the street crying and Mr. Cosby walked up and introduced himself and was like, why are you crying?
And we struck up a friendship.
And I was like, he was trying to fuck you.
Just so you know.
I was like, just so you know, he was trying to fuck you.
She's like, no, he was not trying to fuck me.
And like, what are you talking about?
Like, no, he wasn't trying to fuck you.
Again, like, I'm an animal for suggesting it.
Like, you're so boorish, why would you possibly think?
And it's like, because I fucking met the guy, and he's not a good dude.
And so she defended him.
He used to take me to plays.
Just all this shit.
I'm like, okay.
joe rogan
He just had a long game.
neal brennan
Yeah, man.
And so then all this Cosby shit comes up.
And I text her, I go, so what do you think?
What do you think you're a boy?
And she goes, she said something like, I think, like he absolutely did it, and I think his wife was in on it.
Which, again, I don't know what she meant by that, but...
So then we're texting back and forth, and she goes...
You know, one time I was supposed to meet him in Philadelphia and he told me what to wear and how to wear my hair.
joe rogan
Oh, Jesus Christ.
neal brennan
And she goes, and thankfully I got sick.
joe rogan
She was going to do it?
She was going to wear what he wanted?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wow, that was the time.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
He built it up.
neal brennan
Yeah, and he was going to take her to the ultimate musical.
And thankfully she got sick and didn't go.
And I was like, and the whole time went, it's like, yeah.
That's the thing that, one of the things with some of these stories is like, why would Bill Cosby want to be friends with some lady?
unidentified
Yeah.
neal brennan
Do you know what I mean?
Just because you're great looking.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, I think it's entirely possible that a guy could be friends with a beautiful woman.
Even though he wants to fuck her, just keep it together and just be friends with her and find some interesting muse qualities.
neal brennan
I don't think it's impossible, but I do think it's not very likely in my experience with humanity.
joe rogan
Right.
No, it's true.
neal brennan
And also, why would a guy torture himself like that?
It's like when a guy has a hot nanny.
Dummy!
Ugly nanny.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Fucking don't.
Why do that to yourself?
joe rogan
The hot nanny always winds up being a problem.
neal brennan
Oh.
Fucking every time.
joe rogan
Because the hot nanny knows she's hot, too.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
neal brennan
Does she, though, Joe?
No, she's just wearing sweats.
I wear sweats all day.
joe rogan
Let me pick that up for you.
neal brennan
What are you talking about?
You're such a good dad.
Yeah, like, just don't hire a hot nanny.
joe rogan
Yeah, I would give that advice as well.
neal brennan
I wouldn't hire a hot assistant.
joe rogan
That's good advice as well.
neal brennan
I don't know if I ever told you this story.
So I hired an assistant for the second season of Chappelle Show, right?
And interviewed a bunch of people.
And this girl came in super just like sharp.
I could just tell she was sharp.
But she also happened to be good looking.
And so I hire her.
And Chappelle sees her and goes, word, she was the most qualified?
And I was like, yeah, she was the most qualified.
Now, I was like, yeah, she was the most qualified.
Believe me.
Now, and I was proven right because she has since gone on to produce Ghostbusters and The Heat and all these movies.
And she just happens to be good luck.
But it was one of these things I was like, I fucking knew it.
I fucking told you she was qualified.
She's just good.
joe rogan
What were you talking about with that girl you'd met, Cosby, and he wasn't a nice guy?
neal brennan
Oh, I met Cosby at Arsenio one time, because I'm a million years old.
I met a woman named Joy Dolce, who used to be in the talent department at Arsenio.
And she was friends with Dave because Dave did Arsenio, whatever, whatever.
So she would just go, hey, come by the show today.
This is like when Arsenio was on, the original, like in 94. So I went by one day and Cosby was the guest and he just kind of fucking berated me.
About, like, he was talking about the history of slavery, and he's like, and then the Dutchman came, and he pointed at me, and I was like, I'm not Dutch.
And he just, like, didn't back down.
I was like, okay.
But it was just that he was just a really condescending dude.
And I was 19, so, you know, he had a right to be condescending, but...
joe rogan
Not really.
unidentified
But...
neal brennan
I'll, whatever.
Like, Bill Cosby is a brilliant fucking guy.
But I just, he's just not, I wouldn't, I mean, knowing what I know now, he's a real piece of garbage.
But my interaction with him at that time wasn't pleasant.
And just seeing how he talked to people, it's just like, yeah, this guy's fucking not a good dude.
joe rogan
Well, he definitely has an elitist sort of a thing going on, and I think that elitist sort of a thing is one of the ways that he was able to separate himself from his victims, that he's better than them.
You know, he would behave in these weird ways when he'd do these shows.
I've talked about it before, but I talked to these people that worked with him in a casino, and he would make the entire staff sit down and watch him eat.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
So all the people that worked in the theater, all the people that worked the aisles, they would have to come in the room and stand there while he ate.
Then he had a security guard tuck him into bed at night.
So he climbs into bed and the security guard tucks him in and then shuts the lights out and shuts the door.
neal brennan
I heard something similar to that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
So he had this thing like, I am different than you.
I'm superior.
I'm Bill Cosby.
I'm Dr. Cosby.
Call me Dr. Cosby.
I mean, the Dr. Cosby thing used to drive me fucking crazy.
Chuck D from Public Enemy broke my fucking heart.
Because on Twitter, he was talking about when the accusation started, you know, this is all a smear campaign against Dr. Cosby.
And I'm like, come on, man.
He's not a doctor!
He's not a real doctor.
Don't say that.
And they took that doctor away, too, now.
neal brennan
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean...
I get...
Dave talked about it in his last special, that thing, like, the he rapes but he saves thing.
Bill Cosby's an important dude to black American culture and history.
Well, just culture.
To culture, yes, but he's the first black dude to win an Emmy.
He's the first black dude to do a lot of shit.
And did it the right way.
joe rogan
I mean, he had an animated show, too, that people forgot about Fat Albert.
That was a huge hit.
neal brennan
And black people didn't forget about that show.
joe rogan
Well, it's hard to find now, right?
neal brennan
Yeah.
And, like, just a huge impact.
And it was a real loss for black people.
So a guy like Chuck D, who was eminently respectable...
There's a mourning period.
joe rogan
Yeah, but you gotta be careful when you pull the trigger on calling it a smear campaign.
neal brennan
Oh, I totally agree.
joe rogan
And it's entirely possible that your hero's a piece of shit.
And people can have both qualities.
They can be amazing at something and very important, but also be terrible.
neal brennan
Yeah.
I don't even know if I believe it, but I had the thought that Cosby...
If the kink came before the talent...
Meaning, I know I like poisoning people.
unidentified
Right.
neal brennan
How do I put myself in a position to be able to plausibly poison women?
I got it right.
unidentified
I believe subconsciously that's how people work.
neal brennan
I honestly believe that there's like, in the unconscious, That you go, I have this thing.
Because that's not a thing that you just develop, I don't think.
And that's also not even a power thing.
That's some other shit.
It is power, but it's like sociopathy.
It's not like Harvey Weinstein...
Is like, to me, is like the casting couch run amok.
You know what I mean?
Like, I want...
Come on!
Fuck me!
Like, come on!
You're a hot actress!
I got power!
Like, I thought that's how it works!
Like, I thought that's kind of the way the game was played.
With Cosby...
I mean, having said that, a lot of Harvey shit was just straight rapes, so...
But the fact that they were all actresses, I don't think is like a coincidence.
Um...
But with Cosby, it's like that probably existed when he was 15. I don't know.
joe rogan
I think it's entirely...
I've been talking about this as well, that I think that there was a time when that was normal.
I think it was a time where slipping a Mickey into someone's drink was something that a lot of men did.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think it was...
We looked at things in a different way.
Just like we look at hitting women in a different way.
Like, you go watch those old movies.
Women got smacked all the time.
It was normal.
The leading man, like Steve McQueen, would smack the shit out of women.
neal brennan
Yeah.
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Try slapping a woman now.
joe rogan
In a movie?
neal brennan
Try it.
joe rogan
And be the hero?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, it's again what we're talking about.
Massive cultural evolution.
And they're happening right before us.
neal brennan
And it also was that thing of like, oh, women aren't people.
joe rogan
Right.
unidentified
Eh.
neal brennan
Eh, there is some else.
It's a woman.
It's a woman.
joe rogan
Do you know what the real term for a faggot is?
neal brennan
What do you mean?
Like the etymology?
joe rogan
With the real origin?
Yeah.
neal brennan
Yeah, what?
joe rogan
It's a bundle of sticks.
neal brennan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Right?
Well, a woman...
Was thought to be a bundle of sticks that was used for a woman.
She's burdensome like a bundle of sticks.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because it's difficult to carry around.
So a faggot as a man became a man who's like a woman.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Who's burdensome like a bundle of sticks.
It was never anything about...
What is this here?
Here it goes.
The archaic...
Yeah.
neal brennan
Take a picture.
joe rogan
We don't have to.
Unit of volume.
Yeah.
So, this bundle of sticks thing was like how men thought of women.
Like, oh, carry this bitch around.
Jesus Christ.
You know, bundle of sticks is annoying to carry around.
neal brennan
I got a question for you.
What do you make of...
With...
Now that we've got Louis...
Cosby.
I don't think they're even in the same category.
unidentified
No.
neal brennan
Just for my own...
Just for the sake of argument.
Prior, Beat His Wife, Coke addict, etc., etc.
Do you think that there is a correlation between...
Comedic excellence and degenerate behavior.
joe rogan
Yes.
neal brennan
So do I. I said that to the crowd the other night.
I go, by the way, the ability, jerking off on your stomach and writing amazing jokes are roommates.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Like, it's like, I can't, it's like a, hey, we need you guys to think irrationally about everything.
joe rogan
Yeah, how about Kinison?
Here's another one.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Hicks.
neal brennan
Yes.
Well, Hicks wasn't.
Was Hicks a dirtbag?
joe rogan
Hicks was deviant.
He was into, like, addicted to pornography.
unidentified
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
neal brennan
Oh, I'm not, yeah.
I mean, like.
joe rogan
Dirtbag.
neal brennan
Like, not malevolent.
Yeah, malevolent.
I mean, I feel like.
joe rogan
Hicks is probably more conscious.
He didn't do anything to women, but friends who worked with him would say, hey, we're going out.
You want to come out?
No, I'm going to go back and jerk off.
He was just into watching porn and beating off all the time.
neal brennan
You know what's funny?
I was talking about...
We've both known Louis since...
You've known him since 1989 probably?
joe rogan
I never knew him very well.
neal brennan
But are you around him?
joe rogan
I would see him like once a year, twice a year somewhere and say hi.
I know you way better than I know him.
neal brennan
Yeah.
So I remember when I moved to New York in 91 and was in the comedy scene in 92, 93, 94 in New York, I couldn't believe the amount of jerking off that was going on.
I just remember going, like, why is everyone constantly talking about, like, what the fuck is, it's, I remember, like, going to Louie's apartment for, to shoot, uh, movies, like, his shorts that he used to make, I would, like, PA on them, and, uh, and it always smelled gross.
Like, Jay Moore was constantly...
Jay Moore, me and I were roommates for a bit, he jerked off on one of my socks.
Like, just like, what do you...
Like, why is everyone jerking off all the time?
Just like, what is the...
What the fuck is happening?
joe rogan
That's rape.
neal brennan
Yeah, no, you know what's funny is I was wondering, like...
joe rogan
Today?
neal brennan
Yeah, I was thinking about the Jay thing.
Again, because I'm of the mind that, like...
Again, Louie was more gross than malicious and criminal.
It was gross.
What he did, I think, was just gross.
joe rogan
It was gross if he did it to a man.
It takes on more ominous tones when he's doing it to women.
neal brennan
Completely agree.
joe rogan
But it's not a crime, right?
No, no, no, I don't think so.
I think it's just sad.
It's nothing like Cosby.
It's just pathetic.
It's weird.
And, you know, I had some conversations with...
Uh, Eliza Schlesinger.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
And she was saying that men would say things to her when she first started out because she wasn't very good.
You know, she just started out.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
And these guys were like established guys and they would treat her as if like you're below me and you're always going to be below me.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
And I can get away with saying whenever I want to you because you're less than me.
And she goes and I kind of feel like that's probably why he did that to those girls like he was above them They were below him and it was not just hey, I want to jerk off in front of you It's like you have to watch me jerk off because I'm above you.
neal brennan
You know what's the thing you said earlier was relevant which is Getting hard from that.
joe rogan
How can you?
neal brennan
Yeah, that's the thing that's like...
But then it's also like you don't pick your kinks and all that shit.
It just falls on you.
joe rogan
You don't pick that.
neal brennan
That's even a direct correlation.
Most kinks are just like, I don't know.
I don't fucking like being hung off the roof.
You know what I mean?
But yeah, that's the thing of the getting hard thing.
But also...
The whole thing.
It is sad.
It's fucked up.
But I actually think he'll be in a year and a half he'll be back.
joe rogan
You think so?
neal brennan
Yeah.
Because now he's got something to talk about.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Yeah, for sure.
It's going to be a lot of dudes at the show.
It's going to be 90% dudes.
But I've asked the crowd.
I've asked probably five or six different crowds.
If Louis was doing the show after this, would you go?
And 70% of the people applaud.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They would want to see what the fuck he has to say.
unidentified
Yeah.
neal brennan
Yes.
joe rogan
I think he should go on stage, the first words out of his mouth should be, well, I asked.
neal brennan
I did ask.
I believe the light should just come up and he's jerking off buttoning.
unidentified
That's better.
That's better.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a great idea.
neal brennan
And then just like lights down.
I'm just like...
joe rogan
Yeah, I think what he did was freaky and weird, but I don't think Louie's a monster.
I don't know him very well, but I don't think he's a bad person.
He's always been friendly to me.
neal brennan
He's not a bad person.
He's not.
He's not a bad...
He's also, again, I don't want to be defending a sex criminal.
If it's a power thing, the more powerful he got, the less he did it.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's the weird thing, right?
It's like, I think he realized that what he did was fucked up, and he had these crazy urges, and he did it, and then as time went on, he stopped doing it, and he's like, I'm a prisoner to some shit that I used to do.
neal brennan
I know, and if he had just got in front of it.
I feel like if he had just, A, if he had just talked about it.
Yeah.
Letterman talked about fucking his staff on the air.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
And no one cared.
joe rogan
Well, Letterman just went straight...
I mean, 100% confessional.
neal brennan
Yeah, which I think Louis could have done.
I think he just mishandled it.
joe rogan
Liked having sex with the people that work with him.
neal brennan
And by the way...
joe rogan
I'm being blackmailed.
neal brennan
I talked to Mulaney about this yesterday.
He goes, have you watched it?
He's getting laughs the whole time.
joe rogan
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
neal brennan
Like, the whole time.
The whole time.
Getting big laughs.
joe rogan
He was brilliant.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
I miss him.
neal brennan
And the other thing, it's like the irony of like...
Netflix didn't pull his show.
joe rogan
Yeah, but he was only having sex with people.
But here's the thing, having sex with people back then, that you work with...
neal brennan
But that's now an abuse of power, though.
unidentified
Yes.
neal brennan
Now it is.
That's...
Again, we're talking about four years ago.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
unidentified
You know what I mean?
neal brennan
It feels like...
joe rogan
Well, what has changed?
What's changed?
Is it just everyone...
I think the Harvey Weinstein thing was so fucking gross, and he's such a monster.
Yeah.
I think there's this ripple effect.
We're way beyond normal reactions for things.
Like Matt Lauer.
I'm still trying to figure out what Matt Lauer did that got him fired.
I think he had sex with someone on staff.
neal brennan
Yeah.
I think he had sex with someone on staff that probably felt like she couldn't stop.
joe rogan
Mmm, that's that would be the that would be that sort of Rub I don't know you see I don't I don't want a victim shame, right?
You don't know you don't know what really happened.
I don't know his version I don't even know her version.
I just know the third-hand version You know like I read one that he had sex with some girl until she blacked out like Matt Lauer likes to fuck.
unidentified
Yeah.
neal brennan
In his office.
joe rogan
And then the other thing was that he had a button at his desk where he could lock the door.
neal brennan
Apparently that's normal.
That to me is less a rape trap than it is.
Just like a fucking, I don't want to have to get up and go.
The offices at 30 Rock aren't that big and you're like, you know, it's probably, I don't want to walk 40 feet every time I need to shut the door.
joe rogan
Well, it's also, he's writing, right?
When you write, you don't want to be disturbed.
You're just like, let me just lock this fucking door and lock into this thing.
neal brennan
I don't even think he was writing.
I think it's just like a convenience thing.
joe rogan
Maybe.
But there was no...
The only abuse is that he was having sex with someone who was below him, right?
There wasn't like...
He, you know, he didn't chase him down like Harvey did or, you know, offer them a gig or...
neal brennan
Another friend of mine said something interesting, which he said, uh, until dating people you work with is illegal, this is never going to stop.
joe rogan
Yeah, Whitney's got a great joke about that that she's doing right now, about working in an office, you know, because she works on Roseanne now.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's, uh, it's their world, you know?
It's like when men and women are in an environment together.
neal brennan
It becomes your entire ecosystem.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
And you can't, like, where else are you going to meet people?
joe rogan
Right.
And you're working all day.
Yes.
So it's most of your day.
Most of your life is with these people.
neal brennan
Also, in the same way that they serve, like, lunch at these places now, or they have, like, we play foosball and all that shit at Google.
Like, we have slides and ball pits.
It's like, you can fuck people here.
unidentified
Like...
neal brennan
That's one of our things.
That's one of our incentives.
They want to keep people on campus.
joe rogan
But as soon as you stop, you make that illegal.
If you decide, okay, our rules are you cannot have sex with anybody you work with.
Then you want to fuck everybody you work with.
unidentified
Yes, but you can't do it.
joe rogan
This speaks to the drinking thing.
But sometimes it does work.
If a man and a woman are working together, didn't Jimmy Kimmel marry one of his head writers or something like that?
neal brennan
Yeah, he did.
Again!
joe rogan
Is he a monster now?
neal brennan
How does that work?
joe rogan
Is she below him?
neal brennan
Yes, she was!
That's what it doesn't...
He's a criminal.
I know.
That's the thing.
That's the irony of all this shit.
There was a thing that Leno did his last show.
It was like the 25 kids that were born to couples who met on the show.
unidentified
Wow.
neal brennan
And I was watching it going like, this all was sexual harassment.
joe rogan
It's all crime.
neal brennan
Yeah.
unidentified
This is a perp walk, basically.
joe rogan
But it's not if the two people are really into each other.
neal brennan
If it works, it's not.
joe rogan
You ever dated a comic?
neal brennan
No.
joe rogan
Dated one when I was 21. I don't even really like sleeping with waitresses.
neal brennan
I really try to avoid it.
I try everything in my pocket.
I can't say I've never done it, but I really try not to.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Because I don't even think a lot of times you're attracted to them.
I think you're attracted to the dynamic.
I think you're attracted to like the uniform and like you're working and they're working and you're not supposed to and then you see them off campus in normal clothes and you're like You're just normal here.
joe rogan
You're just a regular person.
Can you go put your outfit on?
neal brennan
Put your apron on.
joe rogan
Listen, how about you just pretend to work at a diner?
I'll stop in for a coffee and then we'll talk.
neal brennan
Yeah.
How was your experience with dating somebody?
joe rogan
I just think there's too much I want to be a comic going on.
We were both 21. We were both...
Both like really raw open micers trying it out didn't know what the fuck the future held in store for us It was just too much comedy talk and I was like, oh she's too much like me.
Yeah, but she was fucking funny and She was one of the few people that I was like wow like she really could be like legit Like when when we were all open micers together and it never worked out for she's quit Yeah, I guess.
I mean, I lost touch with her.
Last time I talked to her, I think we were both like 22, 23, something like that.
And then I'd heard somebody ran into her at an open mic night like a year later, but she had never gotten out of the open mic scene.
So she was in the open mic scene for two, three years and never figured out how to make money.
And, you know, just didn't have whatever it is that some people have.
The fucking driving ambition to figure it out.
neal brennan
I don't...
One of the reasons I wouldn't date another comedian is I don't like that ambition part of me.
Meaning, like, I have it...
I'm I I it does like drive me you don't want to see it.
joe rogan
I don't want to see another I don't want that to be my Emotional support the person who thinks the way I think or feels the way I feel yeah in regards to achievement Yeah, especially like status and you know recognition getting the recognition from your peers and all that kind of crazy shit and craving it and Where are you with all that stuff?
With recognition?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Everything right now, I'm pretty comfortable.
neal brennan
I was going to say, I don't know how you are with congratulations or compliments or stuff, but you've done really well for yourself.
Thank you.
This is fucking impressive.
I was just thinking about that the other day.
You don't get a lot of press.
You probably get offers all the time and just don't do it.
But you've fucking built a...
Great thing.
First of all, to say, I'll tell you a comment somebody else gave you.
Chris Rock said about you, he goes, Joe Rogan basically physically willed himself into being a great comic.
I don't even know what Chris meant by that.
But I know it's a comic.
Like, you just were like, no, I'm gonna do that.
And I'm gonna be a great comic.
And you became a great comic.
That's to say nothing of all this stuff.
That's to say nothing of, like, building an atmosphere where two men can talk about rape.
No, building an atmosphere where you can have me on, you can have...
You know, Alex Jones on.
You can have fucking Neil deGrasse Tyson on.
You can have Miley Yiannopoli.
Just having all these people on...
And it's this weird cross-section that you built, and it's all just from like, oh, I'm into that.
It doesn't even seem that calculated.
joe rogan
It's not calculated at all.
neal brennan
But you deserve full accolades.
joe rogan
Thank you, sir.
Appreciate it.
neal brennan
Like, really.
It's really like you've done a...
Not only like you've built an empire or whatever, but you've...
You started with your voice and your interests and worked out inside out.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
You know what I mean?
Like, I'm into that.
I like talking to people.
I like talking to people about these five or eight things.
And then you didn't...
And you don't chase...
You don't genre chase to...
Wealthy and old to do it anymore, but you're not like, I gotta do a multi-game.
You've done a multi-game, but I gotta do this thing, or I gotta do that, or I gotta get...
But if I was on a network, I'd get billboards, and I'd get all...
You know what I mean?
Like, you'd get...
You don't do dumb shit.
joe rogan
No, I'm into what I'm into.
I did dumb shit with Fear Factor.
Fear Factor was a great education for me.
First of all, it gave me a lot of fuck you money, which was great, because then I realized, well, once you have that, it doesn't really matter.
You really can do what you want if you don't have to worry about how your bills are being paid.
Now you have this freedom.
It's like if they cancel it tomorrow, and I'm like, I didn't spend it all.
I still have a bunch of money, and now I can make a living doing stand-up.
I can do whatever I want.
neal brennan
Also, you could not make a living doing stand-up.
You don't need to make a living.
joe rogan
Right.
You don't have to.
neal brennan
You don't need to make a living.
You've got it.
joe rogan
You're good.
You just lay back if you want to, but I can never do that.
But I just decided somewhere along the line, like, what am I really interested in?
Yeah.
neal brennan
That, to me, is the key.
That's kind of...
Where I've gotten in the last, literally in the last year.
Because, like, Three Mics was popular and successful, like, creatively.
And, like, you know, people liked it and critics liked it.
And it was the last year is the first time I've been like...
Am I funny?
Am I talented?
I'm like, no, I am.
I am.
So now I can stop doing shit out of...
joe rogan
To prove that you are?
neal brennan
To prove this dumb thing that is mostly paranoia.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
Because when people are like, what do you mean am I funny?
Or can you write?
Like the things that I would actually consciously think.
Right.
joe rogan
It's hard when you battle those things in your head because they steal your perception.
neal brennan
It's such a waste of time.
unidentified
Such a waste.
neal brennan
It's not even a waste.
It's maybe the biggest waste of anything on earth.
Your brain is...
It's an occupying force in your brain.
joe rogan
But it's impossible to tell that to someone who's just starting out or who's ambitious and struggling because that is all they want.
They so desire affirmation to know that, hey, I'm a legit pro.
neal brennan
Yeah, and that's the thing.
I got enough affirmation.
Three mics was popular, and this is how dumb the inner voices were.
I would think, yeah, you can write sketches, but you can only write single-camera sketches.
joe rogan
Oh, that's so hilarious.
neal brennan
So then I was like, you probably can't write multi-cam sketches, and then Dave hosted SNL, he asked me to help him with it, and I wrote a great sketch.
And I was like, okay.
joe rogan
Of course you can.
neal brennan
You can write whatever the fuck you want.
joe rogan
Call me next time you have these confusions.
neal brennan
I know.
I know.
It was so obvious to everyone except me.
And then the popularity of three mics, I was like, oh, it's fulfilling.
It is fulfilling, but it's also like you just check it off the list of like, oh, okay.
I don't have to pursue this thing.
I know that that won't Bring me...
It did bring me fulfillment in that it shut the voices up.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
But it didn't bring me fulfillment of like, now when I walk into restaurants, five people know me.
And that's changed.
Like, that doesn't change shit.
joe rogan
Some people love that.
Some people live for that.
neal brennan
I find that to be nothing.
joe rogan
That's a giant distraction.
neal brennan
Yeah, I just find it to be like...
Hey, you know what time it is?
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
And then I'm just like, I don't really remember.
It's gratifying, but it doesn't permeate.
joe rogan
Well, it gets to a place where you're like Chris Rock, where it becomes a problem.
Like, if Chris Rock goes into Spago or wherever, all of a sudden, all eyes are on him.
The paparazzi get notified.
They're waiting out front with cameras.
People inside are looking.
He's over there.
He's over there.
There's that level where it becomes a giant distraction, and it fucks with your art, too.
neal brennan
Chris is good about that shit in that he doesn't have, literally, he travels by himself.
He doesn't have any boys.
joe rogan
Yeah, he comes to the comedy store, no bodyguards, no bullshit, pulls in.
Hey, what's up?
Yeah.
Yeah.
craig jones
No, he's very wise in that regard.
neal brennan
He didn't insulate himself.
I can't have people gassing me.
joe rogan
Smart of him.
He's a fucking smart guy, though.
He can see the pitfalls in advance.
Which is why he's a great comic.
He's psychologically aware.
He's not just delusional and trying to push something that he's...
He's trying to make work.
neal brennan
We all have blind spots, creatively and personally.
He has maybe the fewest blind spots of anyone I know.
joe rogan
Well, that's why he was willing to hire people to help him with his act.
neal brennan
By the way...
That thing of hiring people, because I work on his new hour, here's what it is.
He likes comedy writers.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
And when you're him, you don't have any peers.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
No one's walking up to Rock and giving him tags.
joe rogan
Right, of course.
neal brennan
I would, because I know him, but he doesn't really have peers' peers.
joe rogan
Right, right.
neal brennan
So he just has comedy.
He goes, I like having comedy writers around and comics.
The way rappers like gold chains.
He's like, it just makes me feel good.
He just likes comics.
I can tell you, in his new hour, I have two tags.
No, there's no premises.
There's none of that shit.
Literally, I have two tags.
If I hadn't given them to him, you wouldn't notice.
joe rogan
But it's also in the interest of making the overall product better, and so he's willing to have a bunch of outside eyes look at it.
neal brennan
Yes, it's putting your material against his, basically.
It's like, okay, what do you have for that joke?
No, I think I have all the best beats.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
Already.
joe rogan
Well, what I was gonna say is his work with Richard Jenny was a great example of that.
unidentified
He loved Jenny, yeah.
joe rogan
I did too.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think Jenny's the most unheralded...
neal brennan
I thought one of...
unidentified
What was it?
neal brennan
His second and last...
joe rogan
Steamy pile of me.
neal brennan
Steaming Pile of Me was great, and then the one...
He had some...
I remember the one where he got out of the subway car.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
neal brennan
I was like...
I remember watching and going like, this is fucking good.
joe rogan
It's great.
neal brennan
Yeah, I haven't watched it in 20 years probably, but I remember going like, yeah, this shit is...
joe rogan
His bit on a steamy pile of me, I was just talking to some comics about it the other night.
I'm like, he has a bit about the difference between the left and the right and the center.
I don't want to paraphrase it, but it's fucking such a well-written bit.
And he was so good at squeezing every last angle out of bits.
neal brennan
Fucking premise.
joe rogan
Oh, just smash them.
They would be obliterated.
And his economy of words was so magical.
He was a craftsman.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
neal brennan
Yeah, he was really fucking good.
joe rogan
And again, a deeply troubled guy who never felt like he got the respect that he deserved and never got to be the...
unidentified
He didn't!
joe rogan
Well, he was in a...
I think if he was alive today, he would be this huge Netflix star, selling out big places, and he would probably be happy with that.
But in his era, that wasn't the goal.
In his era, the goal was get a sitcom.
And so he used to do clubs where I would go, I would do the clubs after him, and they would be saying like, oh he hates it, he didn't want to do this, he hates doing press, he's bummed out that he's on the road, he didn't move to Hollywood to be on the road.
And I was like, does he understand that he's like one of the best comics that's ever lived?
When we were all kids, when we were starting out, back when I met you at Boston Comedy in 1991 or whatever it was, you weren't even doing stand-up back then.
The goal was to make a living.
Do you think you can make a living?
neal brennan
You know what Jenny's only problem was?
His material was great, and I'm trying to think of a guy who's like this now.
His material was great.
His presentation was artless.
Meaning, he looked like he bought his suits at the Dick Tracy villain shop.
He just had a hacky sensibility.
His fucking bits were great.
There are people that don't like Sebastian because of what I'm saying.
joe rogan
Because he's too stylized?
neal brennan
Sebastian shops at the mall.
Do you know what I mean?
joe rogan
Oh, I see what you're saying.
neal brennan
He's just a populist.
He's not an artist.
You know what I mean?
I once brought Sebastian up as a blue-collar snob.
Which is exactly what he is.
I'll have arguments with people where I'm like, Sebastian's fucking great.
And they're like, he doesn't need a little hacky.
I'm like, no!
joe rogan
He's not hacky at all.
neal brennan
He's not hacky at all, but because he dresses like a fucking Italian fucking chooch from Chicago.
joe rogan
A chooch!
neal brennan
He wears vests.
He wears vests.
Literally, people deduct points.
They're not even aware they're doing it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
And Jenny suffered from that, where you had to go, boy, this is a fucking good bit.
This is like, in terms of writing-wise, he was as good a bit writer as Hicks was at that time.
unidentified
Better.
joe rogan
Way better.
neal brennan
Again.
joe rogan
Way better.
In terms of humor...
In terms of humor, I don't even think they're close.
neal brennan
Okay, but I'm saying in terms of his peers at the time.
joe rogan
But I mean, if you listen to Hicks, you're not going to laugh a lot.
neal brennan
No.
joe rogan
If you listen to a steaming pile of me, you're going to...
I was in the car coming back from the Irvine Improv before I filmed my last comedy special.
I was prepping for the comedy special, and one of the things I like to do, I like to do Irvine, it's a big place.
You get everything tight, you get a full weekend in.
And as I was driving home, I said, let me listen to some Richard Jenney.
And I listened to Steamy Pile Me.
And I hadn't heard it in years.
And it was from 2007, I believe.
And I was fucking crying laughing, clapping in my car by myself on the way home.
I think he was one of the best ever.
And I think Hicks is a great comic.
Don't get me wrong.
I mean, he's one of the most influential and important guys ever.
But in terms of humor value, I think Richard Jenney is a So you put Jenny closer to Carlin?
Yes.
I put him above Carlin.
neal brennan
Wow.
joe rogan
To me.
neal brennan
Yeah, that's fine.
I kind of think Rock might too.
Rock fucking adored Jenny.
But people deduct points because it seemed like...
joe rogan
Yeah, because he wears a sweater with a button-up shirt.
neal brennan
And Carlin would wear fucking a t-shirt and like, I'm a workman artist.
Whereas Jenny was like, what are you going for?
joe rogan
The dentist.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
The dentist who's off-duty.
neal brennan
Yeah.
And he's like tan and his hair is combed back.
joe rogan
Well, he had a lot of plastic surgery, too.
He kind of went a little nutty and tried to become a leading man.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
He had a lot of issues.
But the comedy was fucking genius, man.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
But people do judge people the way they look, you know?
Like...
It's a weird thing.
Whitney in her last special, her HBO special, she wore her hair down.
And she said that was a big issue.
She always wears her hair up.
And Chris wanted her to wear her hair down.
And she's like, you should have wore your hair up.
That's what you do.
You wear your hair up all the time.
neal brennan
Rock's argument, Rock was saying he wanted her hair down.
By the way, Rock didn't say it.
Rock just said it to someone at HBO. She should wear her hair down.
He wasn't like, I demand.
Hello, this is Chris Rock.
He was like, she should wear her hair down.
His thing was...
She reads too hard on camera.
With her hair pulled back, it's all, and her delivery is so, like, uh...
Menacing is the wrong word, but it's very forceful.
joe rogan
Yeah, but see, that's what I like.
neal brennan
Right.
joe rogan
I like the fact that she's like, I'm pulling my fucking hair up.
No nonsense.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
No bullshit.
neal brennan
He was seeing it more from just a point of view of a director.
Yeah.
Because, dude, it matters.
joe rogan
It does matter, though, also to the delivery.
neal brennan
It matters more than you think.
joe rogan
But it matters more, I think, for the person delivering it that they feel comfortable.
And I think because she's a beautiful woman, I think for her, pulling her hair up is like, I'm not accentuating that at all.
I just want you to listen to what I have to say.
And that's the best way to do it.
You know, like, there's parallels.
I mean, like, if you saw a really funny woman, but she was dressing like a primetime Megyn Kelly on Fox with little tiny skirts on and her boobs showing, it's like, what are you selling?
Like, you're selling something different than just I'm a stand-up comic.
Like, you're selling I'm a sexy lady out for a night on the town, but I'm also going to tell you some jokes.
neal brennan
Yeah, I guess.
joe rogan
That's a mixed message.
neal brennan
Yeah, I guess.
But the thing that people don't take into account sometimes is like, you know, a lot of the successful male comics are good looking.
Tosh is fucking good looking.
joe rogan
He's a handsome fella, but weird gay tones, right?
neal brennan
Fine.
Fine.
That's the small price to pay for those looks.
You get a fucking face like that.
joe rogan
I love Tosh, but the reason why I said that was like, Doug Stanhope, who's a fucking maniac, wrote something crazy about Tosh in his book.
Just fucking with him.
I forget it was.
That he murders women who question his sexuality.
Stanhope went semi-Hunter S. Thompson in some of his stuff.
Clearly, obviously, he's making things up.
You have to be obviously aware.
But yeah, Tosh is obviously a good-looking guy.
Sebastian's a beautiful man.
Dave Chappelle?
neal brennan
I think he was better looking skinny.
Really?
Personally.
joe rogan
He's got some fucking guns now.
neal brennan
Cosby was good looking.
Pryor looked like something.
I think looks mean more than people take into account.
It's like I always say to people, no one with gray hair has ever made it as a comic.
Not never, but almost never.
Think about it.
Steve Martin and Rodney are my list.
Rodney was a cartoon old man.
joe rogan
I think there's something about being old, though.
You lose your exuberance and your enthusiasm.
That's a part of the aging process.
It depends on how much you cultivate your own personal energy.
How much are you paying attention to that?
How well are you taking care of your body?
neal brennan
I also think people are more impressed if you can come to these conclusions in 26 years.
joe rogan
Yeah, but you can't.
unidentified
Well, a few people have.
joe rogan
But, like, Ron White is a gray-haired guy now.
I mean, he's deep into his 60s.
neal brennan
He's been, and he's like a cartoon alcoholic.
joe rogan
Yeah, he is a cartoon.
neal brennan
And a real alcoholic.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's legit and funny as shit.
neal brennan
Yeah, that motherfucker.
That motherfucker is so funny, I said to him, I was like, hey, he did a joke...
He did a joke that like, and I go, do you remember that joke where you're talking about you're in a fight with your wife and you said something?
He goes like, I don't remember.
And it's like, you don't remember?
That's a fucking, you don't remember?
Dude!
Dude!
joe rogan
He was telling us a story in the back room of the comedy store.
You know the back bar?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
He was telling us a story, and I'm fucking literally in tears.
neal brennan
When I say he didn't remember, by the way, I'd seen him do it six weeks earlier, and he was like, I don't remember.
joe rogan
He was telling a story, and I was crying.
Like, tears were rolling down my face.
And I forget who else was with us.
And I go, you gotta tell that on stage.
He goes, you think?
I go, please tell that story on stage.
Please.
And he goes, eh, I don't know.
I go, just fucking tell it, it's gonna kill.
He went on stage with it that night.
He's like got a bottle of tequila, he pours himself another drink, literally goes from the back bar to the stage and closes with that.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Closes with it and it smashes.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Out of the park.
neal brennan
I think I may have seen a bit of it.
By the way, Jeffrey's, Jim went on.
Jim's not bad.
I mean, he's like, whatever.
joe rogan
He's a good looking guy.
unidentified
Yeah.
neal brennan
Jeffries went on the other night, like, he'd been drinking all day and his friend was like, can you do stand-up drunk?
And he's like, yeah.
And he's like, I don't believe it, whatever.
And, like, Jeffries went on and fucking murdered for a half an hour.
Just, like, drunk.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It can be done.
neal brennan
God bless you.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, especially if you're feeling it.
Yeah.
You know, like sometimes being drunk, like as long as the momentum's in the right way, you know, like you're thinking in a good way and everything comes out and you're on the stage, ah, I got some fucking shit to talk about.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Here we go!
And then he goes in his act.
neal brennan
Do you drink much?
joe rogan
A little bit, yeah.
Do you get drunk?
No, not before I go on stage.
Very, very rarely.
I have.
It's not good.
I like a drink.
Maybe two drinks.
You know?
I get a little tipsy.
Yeah.
Being drunk on stage, it's not the right way to manage the ideas, but it is a good way to not give a fuck.
It's like if you have an idea and you feel so strongly about it, and you're, I mean, obviously, it so varies depending upon where you are in your life and where you are with the material, but sometimes some material just needs a little bit of, I don't give a fuck.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then if you have a couple of drinks before you talk about that subject, and you're like, well, why the fuck do I have to pay attention to this?
And then it gets in a new place.
neal brennan
It truly jogs the brain, where it's like, here's a fucking wall.
This wall is a door.
And you're like, oh, fuck, alright.
And then you're talking some real shit.
joe rogan
I'm a big believer in using as many different methods as possible to explore ideas.
Whether it's the sensory deprivation tank, or pot, or psychedelics, or booze, or...
Or just going places and doing things.
And I think as I've gotten older and I'm on a schedule to put out a special every year and a half or so.
Two years now, I think.
My last one was in October, so my last one was a year and a couple months.
And I'm getting ready to film it.
In April, so it'll be about a year and a half.
That, to me, is like a good schedule.
neal brennan
Came out in October, or you shot it in October?
joe rogan
Came out in October, shot it in June.
So from shoot to shoot is about two years.
I feel like that is, if to do that, I have to do things.
I have to have experiences.
I have to force, I have to not force myself to, but I have to be consciously aware of being in action.
Things have to happen.
neal brennan
Yeah, like, I'm going to Vancouver next week to do Iboga.
joe rogan
Oh, shit.
neal brennan
And then the week after that, I'm going to Bangkok.
joe rogan
Is Ibogaine legal in Vancouver?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It is.
Beautiful.
Should be everywhere.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's not something that kills people.
unidentified
So we'll see.
joe rogan
It's supposed to be amazing for curing addictions.
neal brennan
Yeah.
I'm just going to see what it does for depression.
Because it's gotten way better.
Like, in the last year, the depression's gotten better.
And, uh...
Which is a weird thing from...
I hate to say that having a successful special cured my depression.
I don't want it to be that linear, but it made me...
It just got me out of fucking negative thinking.
joe rogan
Isn't that funny?
But I don't think there's anything wrong with you saying that.
Because I think there's a real stigma between correlating having a successful life and achievement and being happy.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
But Ari Shaffir is a great example of that.
I think Ari, there was a chemical issue too.
Ari was on Propecia for a while.
neal brennan
Holding on.
joe rogan
Yeah, he let go.
He got off of it.
But one of the side effects of Propecia is pretty severe depression.
Ari got on some psych meds.
He got on some antidepressants.
Then his career took off and he weaned himself off the antidepressants.
And he doesn't need them anymore.
I mean, Ari's one of the happiest guys I know.
But he's also very successful.
And that's the last four, five years of his life.
neal brennan
It's like money can't buy you happiness.
It's true.
Validation isn't nothing.
joe rogan
It's not nothing.
neal brennan
It's like, it's, you know, esteem and the look in people's eyes and the energy people have.
unidentified
And the respect of your peers.
neal brennan
Yes, that's what I'm saying.
Like, the look of like, oh, you're, yeah, I can't, like, you're, you're, you're legit.
joe rogan
You and I, when I, if I run into you, if we're passing in the hallway and, you know, you say, I love that bit that you're doing, like, ah, I'm like, I know you're a really funny guy.
You like my thing.
I get happy.
You tell me that Chris Rock said I'm a great comic.
I get happy.
Positive affirmation.
It's real.
I'm not insecure.
In fact, I go up tonight.
Am I worried?
Do I know how to do this?
No.
But you tell me someone who's really good says I'm good.
It feels good you you you feel like you're in and that's what so many of us felt like we weren't yes before we became by the way I'd like to say that goes away.
neal brennan
Ellen DeGeneres is a...
I shot this Netflix commercial with her and Chris and Seinfeld and Dave.
And so me and Ellen are buddies now.
And she's doing a new hour.
And she sent me 15 minutes of it.
On DVD. Like, she doesn't fuck with computers.
She doesn't email, which is like smart.
Really?
I mean, not like she doesn't fuck with computers.
joe rogan
She stays offline.
neal brennan
Like, she just doesn't.
joe rogan
Social media.
neal brennan
Yeah.
She doesn't.
Like, she'll text on her phone.
She'll Instagram, whatever.
But she sent me her 15 minutes on a DVD, and I watched it at like midnight on a Thursday.
And didn't text her, because I don't know when she goes to sleep.
And I woke up to a text from her going like, hey, did you watch it?
And I was like, yeah.
She's like, I'm starting to get...
And I go, yes.
I was like, Ellen, you're fucking hilarious.
And she wrote like, phew.
It never ends.
joe rogan
It can't end.
If it ends, you know, it's like, I've talked about this before, that that dream of retirement that's sailing off in the sunset is straight up horseshit.
neal brennan
Not for us, yeah.
joe rogan
It's horseshit.
You want to do good stuff, and the only way to do good stuff is to worry whether or not you're doing good stuff.
neal brennan
Yeah.
That's the main...
Again, I'm trying to balance...
The desire to do good stuff and having a good life.
unidentified
Yes.
neal brennan
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
You have to have both.
neal brennan
Because that's the other thing that happened was when Charlie Murphy died this year, I was like, boy, it's a fucking...
That's like...
That was it.
Yeah.
That's it.
That's the end of him.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
And like...
I want...
All I could think was, did he have fun?
unidentified
Right.
neal brennan
You know what I mean?
Like, did he have fun?
Because that's really the only thing that matters.
All this stuff of like...
Even the best-known comic...
unidentified
Isn't...
neal brennan
I mean, people don't think about Carlin that much anymore.
Do you know what I mean?
joe rogan
Yeah.
It doesn't matter.
neal brennan
It doesn't...
joe rogan
It matters to the people that you affect in a positive way, but ultimately for you, you live and then you die.
And are you enjoying being alive?
And those uncomfortable things, do they help you?
Like the uncomfortable things about Ellen, like, phew.
What that's going to do is going to allow her through that...
Weird sort of anxiety and insecurity.
It's gonna allow her to make an amazing special.
And the same thing can be said of us.
When I'm on a film in April, I am fucking terrified of writing a new act.
Because this act, when I first started it a year ago, it was like on Bambi legs.
And it was dog shit.
And I would do it at the store, and I would have bits that would just be...
Clunky and they'd come out awkward.
Yeah, and then they started to take life after a month or so And then they started to grow and build to it was something that I could take on the road And now that I've gone through that whole process the idea of tossing the side and starting all over again is like yeah Yeah, this is terrifying.
neal brennan
Yeah, but that's the only way you get better Yeah, by the way Ellen did like a half hour at Largo and then she did a half hour of a Q&A And when I say this motherfucker murdered I mean, it was like, god damn.
Like, oh, that's the funniest thing she could have said, followed by that being the funniest thing she could have...
Literally, like, in a fucking...
It was like watching someone in a fight, just like, ca-ha-ha!
Ah!
Like Q&A and fucking murdering.
joe rogan
And the people are yelling things out?
neal brennan
Is that what it's called?
It was just like, Ellen, she was funny, she was mean.
Because she's a fucking comic.
She's like a fucking, you know what I mean?
You don't write jokes from kindness.
joe rogan
Well, yeah.
neal brennan
I write jokes from agitation.
joe rogan
I have to tell people that.
neal brennan
Yeah.
But she's like, she, like even people that worked on her, on her talk show were like, Jesus, that was like magic.
unidentified
Like, we're just like, God damn, you are really great.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Talk show is censored, you know, give her an option to just do something like that.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're going to see what she's really capable of.
And she's capable of being very charming and fun on the talk show.
neal brennan
She's really super charming.
That's what the show mostly is.
It's mostly just doing a...
She's just sweet.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
And then as a comic, it's not just sweet.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It can't be.
neal brennan
It can't.
Literally, you can't do comedy.
joe rogan
I do that stand-up on the spot show.
You've done that before, right?
I did it Tuesday night, and I said something to somebody.
I go, look.
I go, I'm going to be mean.
I go, you understand that.
I don't mean this, but when you say something stupid, I have to attack you.
You have to be sacrificed for the greater good of the show.
neal brennan
Yeah, I'm sorry.
joe rogan
As long as you guys are cool with that.
neal brennan
Yeah, I'm sorry, that's just the way it is.
And it's not like, she's not like a dark-hearted person or whatever, but it's like, that's just kind of who, and you know, yeah, we all have this fear of like, can I do it again?
It's jumping, you're jumping over, you're Evel Knievel.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
And it's like, there really is like a fear of like, can I clear the chasm?
joe rogan
And you're literally only as good as your last set.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
If you bomb, like you better get up on stage quick and fix that.
unidentified
Shit hurts.
neal brennan
Shit stings for 20 hours.
You better get back up there and fix it.
Yeah, side effects, mate.
You literally will sting for that shit doesn't...
And I don't think it gets better.
joe rogan
It doesn't get better, it gets worse.
Because then the people come to see you, they expect more of you, you have higher expectations.
neal brennan
You should know better.
joe rogan
Yeah, you should know better.
neal brennan
You should know better than to bomb.
What the hell is your problem?
joe rogan
How are you bombing still?
But the thing is, man, the development of material must be done in front of an audience.
I mean, I write on a computer and on a notebook, but the only way it really works out is in front of a crowd.
neal brennan
Yeah.
Yeah, there's no...
If it's not...
If they don't laugh, it's not comedy.
joe rogan
Yeah, and you don't really know for sure where the beats are.
You think you've got a pretty good roadmap from all your experience, but until you do it in front of a live audience, they're there to tell you So, Mulaney just did this Mark Twain thing for Letterman.
neal brennan
It was like the Mark Twain Prize on PBS for David Letterman.
So, it's like Steve Martin, just Bill Murray, everybody.
And John Mulaney's doing it, so he sends me his speech.
His, like, his bit.
And I'm reading it, and it's whatever.
I'm like, eh, like, whatever.
A couple ideas.
And then, so I watch it, and he did a line that, like, Killed.
Like, one of those things where they laugh for a split second and then immediately applaud.
Like, fuck laughing!
We have to go immediately to applause.
And I was watching this and I was like, I didn't even know that was a joke.
Like, when I read it, I was like, I didn't know that was a joke.
So I text Malini, I go, did you, was that a punchline to you?
And he goes, nope.
unidentified
Nope.
neal brennan
Had no idea.
Two guys with a lot of experience, no fucking idea.
And he got an applause break.
Like, the highlight of his part.
unidentified
That's so crazy.
neal brennan
Didn't even know it was a joke.
And that's what an audience does, that you can't, like, oh, now we're doing comedy.
I thought that was a straight, I thought that was just a metaphor.
joe rogan
You know, I have an app on my phone, the sound app, the voice notes app, and you can look at it, you can edit the voice notes, and when you go into the edit mode, See the spikes.
And so I'm going over this one bit, and I look, and there's this giant fucking spike in this Harvey Weinstein bit that I have.
And then I realized that the giant spike is something that I didn't even know was a punchline when I wrote it.
I was trying to set something else up, but the way it played out, it got the biggest fucking laugh of the entire bit.
neal brennan
And then you have to act like you meant to do that.
Like, oh, that old thing...
joe rogan
I'm like, how the fuck did that?
And then I got off stage and Tony Hinchcliffe said to go, dude, that fucking line is so funny.
I'm like, man, I didn't even know that was going to be funny.
neal brennan
I'll tell you.
I'll tell you off stage.
I was saying, you did a thing that I was like, that's a fucking...
Oh, the thing that I like that you said about it is like, sometimes rapists just look like rapists.
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
Oh, that's right.
I'm hardly doing that anymore.
Yeah, like they say you shouldn't judge a book by its cover.
neal brennan
Yeah, but like, yeah.
joe rogan
But yeah, sometimes...
neal brennan
Your instincts are dead right.
unidentified
That guy.
neal brennan
Yeah, that guy looks like he rapes.
joe rogan
He looks like a fucking total piece of shit.
I mean, what a trap it would be if you looked like that and you weren't a piece of shit.
You're like, I'm really a nice guy.
I'm the sweetest guy ever.
neal brennan
Yeah, so there's literally no knowing until you do it.
joe rogan
No.
It's a weird art form in that regard.
You know, I was talking to Chris Stapleton about that.
I was saying, you write all your music.
And then you perform it to the audience, it's done.
And I'm like, for a comic, that's so rare.
It's so rare that I write a bit that comes out perfect.
And then I bring it to the stage, and it literally mirrors what I wrote down.
neal brennan
Yeah.
I mean, sometimes, but it's never...
There's also a thing...
I was reading something, or listening to something, where your brain...
Adrenaline will make your brain...
Do different shit.
Yeah.
Meaning, so you need to put your...
You need to...
Like, you can have the map.
You can have your plan.
But then adrenaline will be like...
It's like you ever watch somebody...
Dave did something.
Did you see that Def Comedy Jam 25th anniversary thing?
joe rogan
No.
neal brennan
It's not very good.
But it's on Netflix.
But here's the good news.
It's not very good.
There's a sequence where Chappelle and D.L. Hughley are on.
And Chappelle is so fucking funny, it's truly breathtaking.
And he's improvising the whole thing.
And it's like, so fucking breathtaking.
And I was there with Jimmy Carr, the comedian, and I was like, when I'm impressed by Dave, it's like, he must, because I fucking know him so well.
And I was like, this motherfucker's like...
And he's like, yes, but don't discount, don't assume that you couldn't have done something because adrenaline does make your brain do shit.
It kind of makes it like superhuman.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
And super like, like make logic leaps that you wouldn't.
But I, in my, in my line of way, in like my, I, that's maybe 10% ultimately of like, it's 90% written and then I'll 10% say, come on with some on stage.
joe rogan
Yeah, when I'm intoxicated, I'm more willing to take these big leaps and go into new rooms.
Take new paths off of stuff.
I'll take a wild, especially marijuana.
There's something about being high, if I'm doing a bit, especially a new bit, where I'll go, what about his mom?
How does his mom feel about this?
That bitch has got to be like, what did I do?
And then you'll have this whole other angle that it's almost like, In the moment, it shows itself.
And then you have to chase it down.
You have to have the courage to chase it down live in front of a bunch of people that paid to hear you talk.
neal brennan
Yeah.
And that's the risk.
That's where hubris comes in.
That's where it's like, yeah, I know you paid.
joe rogan
Yeah.
This is how it's got to be done.
One of the good things about comedy today is because of all these kind of conversations that we have, people sort of understand the process and particularly the comedy story.
neal brennan
People like love the process.
joe rogan
Yeah, they want to see the process play out.
Like I've talked to a guy the other day that was like, I came to see you while you were doing that Bruce Jenner thing, and I saw it through all its incarnations.
I saw the early part was kind of clunky, and then I saw it where it became the finished thing, which is your closing bid on the special.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he was like, I saw you over a period of like three times over eight months.
He was like, it was really interesting.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, they like it.
They're comedy nerds.
Yeah.
neal brennan
Yes.
Chappelle thinks that's because of alternative comedy.
He believes that one of the great things about alt comedy was it brought people into the process.
joe rogan
Hmm.
neal brennan
And I think he's right.
I think it's that end podcast.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think podcasts more so, because obviously way more people listen to podcasts than go to see alternative comedy shows.
I mean, if you have one or two alternative comedy shows in the city, it's a big deal, like in LA. I mean, how many are going on a night?
Three?
So you've got like, what, 900 people maybe that are seeing alternative comedy in a night?
Whereas podcasts, thousands and thousands and thousands, if not millions and millions.
I think that there's a bunch of things going on, though, too.
It's like, when you become a fan of it, like, I'm a fan of music, and I don't really, like, one of the things about having Chris Stapleton in is, I just wanted to ask him, like, how do you write jokes?
Like, where do they come from?
neal brennan
Yeah, I always ask that.
It's such a dumb question, but it's like, I don't have any idea what that's like.
joe rogan
I mean, I said jokes, I meant songs.
Yeah.
How do you, you know, where does the music come from?
Do you have like a beat in your head?
I mean, and his answer was there's a bunch of different ways he does it.
You know, sometimes he's just in his car and the thought just comes to him and he starts singing into his phone.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
neal brennan
Yeah, that's the...
Mullaney did a joke, or it's like an anecdote in his act, so I won't blow it, but like...
Mick Jagger was hosting SNL, and so Mulaney was writing a song with him, and Mulaney pitched something, and Mick Jagger goes, No!
And he goes, not funny!
joe rogan
Wow.
unidentified
That's brutal.
neal brennan
And then he fits like a lateral movement.
He's like, yes.
But it's like, okay.
I guess this is fucking songwriting.
Different than what I thought.
joe rogan
When you're Mick Jagger, you could kind of just say whatever the fuck you want.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, you're like a seven-year-old man who just had a baby.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's shooting loads into models in Brazil and all over the world.
He just does whatever the fuck he wants.
neal brennan
Do you find, speaking of which, because I was saying to somebody...
In light of the Cosby...
The thing where people become...
I was saying, like, I always say beware of a moral arbiter.
Beware of a moral pillar, because why are you doing this?
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
Like, what benefit...
You're not doing it for society.
You're not trying to benefit.
You're not trying to sell the good word.
You're literally just being a superior dickhead.
joe rogan
Right.
Which was Cosby's move.
neal brennan
100%.
Do you think...
Have you noticed what...
What adulation has done to your personality?
Have you noticed a little creep?
Have you noticed a creep of like, oh, that's shitty, you know what I mean?
I don't, and by the way, I'm not saying this like, because I can think of one, Joe.
I'm just saying like, are there moments where you're like, oh, like, because I don't know, you're more popular than, you know what I mean, like, than I am.
So I'm just wondering, like, have you noticed anything happening that you were like, eh, that's interesting.
joe rogan
You've got to be careful of it, for sure.
I think I felt it a lot more when I was younger, or, you know, just dumber.
I think you're just always aware...
The worst thing that you could do as a comic is lose your objectivity.
Like, whatever objectivity you have, let it slip away instead of let it increase.
I think in order to be a good comic, you have to be introspective.
neal brennan
It's objectivity until it's very subjective.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Until you're sure of it.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
And then it's like, no, fuck you.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
That's where the hubris comes in.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean, I just think...
Perspective, you know, I mean that's one of the reasons why I like pot because it makes me insecure.
Yeah Legitimately I like I like that in every ability in every like insecure define insecure Vulnerability like insecure about the future about life itself about like realizing like wow like at any moment now fucking earthquake can happen at any moment now we get hit by an asteroid and The cells in my body literally only have about 50 years left of life if I'm lucky.
If everything works out great.
You know, all that stuff.
You know, worrying about my children, worrying about my family, worrying about, you know, all those things are real.
You know, those sort of vulnerabilities, they're highlighted by marijuana.
The awareness of your own Imminent demise and just life itself being so fucking uber bizarre like all those things are highlighted by marijuana Which is one of the things I like about it that ruthless Introspective quality of pot that people call paranoia.
I get paranoid.
Well, I just think that's hyper awareness Yeah, which is why like hugs feel so good when you're high if you're high and you hug someone like ah It feels so warm.
Food feels better.
It's like you're way more aware.
I work out high.
One of my favorite things to do is, I did it yesterday.
I had this meeting here.
I did a podcast and after meeting, I had like two hours before the meeting.
So I smoked a joint and then I hit the bag.
I just went over to the heavy bag and it worked out for like 45 minutes and just, man, it's like you're so aware of all the muscle tissue moving.
You like feel your body different.
It's like, especially for me, like for martial arts techniques, I'm really aware of the correct way to utilize leverage and weight.
It all comes together.
It's just hyper-awareness.
That hyper-awareness also makes you hyper-focused on yourself and your flaws and the way you interact with people.
I never feel confident.
When I smoke a lot of pot, I always feel vulnerable and I always feel like I should, like, apologize to people for something.
It's always like something that happened like a month ago, like, ah, why was I a dick about that?
neal brennan
You feel like a woman, basically.
joe rogan
Exactly.
Feel emotional.
neal brennan
Vulnerable and constantly apologizing.
joe rogan
Well, that's one of the reasons why a lot of people don't think of marijuana as being a manly thing.
You know, marijuana is, like, very feminine.
In a lot of ways.
Very nurturing.
It's really a community sort of a drug in the sense that it's not something you want to be by yourself with.
It's something you want to be like with a community of friends.
It makes you very...
It's a friendly drug.
neal brennan
Yeah.
That's what I realized.
I never really...
I'd gotten drunk...
I got drunk in 2005...
And I realized, like, oh, this is the value.
What I realized is, it's all of us sit in a rowboat, and we just slowly shoot holes in the boat.
And we all just slowly sink at the same, we're just getting drained, you're just sinking and sinking, but you're doing it together.
unidentified
Right.
neal brennan
So it's, like, nice.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
And that's what it sounds like you're describing weed as, like, you're being vulnerable, collective vulnerability.
joe rogan
The alcohol's gonna come at a price.
There's no real price for the weed.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
For me, at least.
I don't have the price.
When it's over, I feel fine.
Like, I don't feel like, like, oh my god, my head's pounding.
What the fuck did I do last night?
Like, that I got drunk with my buddies thing.
We had the best time.
We were laughing and high-fiving and howling and crying laughing.
But then the next morning, like, oh my god.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Your head's fucking pounding.
Pot doesn't give you that part, you know?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
What was the...
So you had gone through a series of ketamine therapy.
neal brennan
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I did the TMS, the...
Because I was looking to...
Last time I was here was the last August.
joe rogan
Was that transdermal magnetic stimulation?
neal brennan
Transcranial magnetic stimulation.
unidentified
Okay.
neal brennan
Which worked.
And then the problem was...
And I think...
I don't know if I talked about it on here or not.
Someone gave me some HGH. Did I tell you that?
joe rogan
Human growth hormone.
neal brennan
Yeah.
Basically, so I did...
TMS which transcranial magnetic simulation 45 sessions it worked great like it literally I stopped taking it takes like 35 minutes and they just put like electrodes on yours yeah, I think I have video they put they put They yeah, they put video on Chris Rock sends me every single rape thing.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
neal brennan
Everything that comes out?
Every page six.
Literally, he sent me probably 25 of these.
I don't know.
It's just like a thing now.
Because then we go like...
It's just like literally...
It's just like a ticker.
It's so fucking money.
joe rogan
There's so many guys.
Mario Batali.
And by the way, the more salacious they can make these stories, the better.
They were talking about some room that Mario would take people up to, and the third floor is the rape room.
I'm like, what in the fuck?
neal brennan
You know what makes me laugh is the...
Oh, you have it.
Yeah.
You know what makes me laugh is the...
The pictures of Louie got progressively worse and worse.
joe rogan
Oh, the ones they could find?
neal brennan
Yeah, like the New York Times.
I was waiting for them to just put up a picture of Lee Harvey Oswald.
You don't have to find the shittiest, the guiltiest looking picture.
joe rogan
Well, there's so much video of him beating off.
Like, air beating off, you know?
Play that video.
Like, this is you going through the treatment?
neal brennan
Is this from the last time I was here, or this is online?
joe rogan
This is from last time you were here.
neal brennan
Yeah.
unidentified
Oh, man.
joe rogan
Wow, look at that, man.
Give me some volume.
neal brennan
And then so I went to this.
joe rogan
Whoa, dude.
That sound is like an MRI sound.
neal brennan
Yeah, that's what it is.
Yes.
joe rogan
That's right.
We talked about it the last time we were here.
neal brennan
But, okay, so then the problem was after that I did HGH. Someone gave me some HGH. And I was like, yeah, I'll fucking take it.
I don't give a shit.
Yeah, I'll take HGH. I'm always looking for an advantage.
And I started having panic attacks.
joe rogan
From HGH? Yes.
neal brennan
Which is a, it's a narrow side effect, but it's one of the side effects of HGH. Basically, it like supercharged my whole system.
I started having panic attacks on stage.
unidentified
Whoa.
neal brennan
I had a panic attack the night before I taped three mics.
What?
I couldn't go on stage.
Spade was supposed to bring me on, and I told Adam, I was like, I can't go on.
I literally couldn't breathe.
joe rogan
Whoa, the night before you're filming?
neal brennan
What a mindfuck!
But you killed it!
Yes, I thankfully didn't get one that night.
joe rogan
Oh my gosh.
neal brennan
Dude, trust me.
Trust me.
And then I had anxiety...
For months literally like just like when people say I have anxiety I'd never had anxiety I was like I'm not an anxious person I wouldn't even know what that's like it's fucking miserable it's to me it was worse than depression because you're agitated and like you just feel like static it just was like a static over your body it was like you're you just have like this like cortisol snow And it sucked.
So I went back on Zoloft.
And then it ended the anxiety.
joe rogan
Now, but you were trying to get yourself off of that stuff.
neal brennan
Yeah, so now I'm going to go...
I'm back on...
I just stopped taking Zoloft like two weeks ago.
joe rogan
How do you feel?
neal brennan
Because you can't...
I feel actually really good.
Because...
Oh, here's what I didn't say.
I also micro-dosed...
Do-do-do.
While I was on Zoloft, I micro-dosed shrooms like three times.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Which is actually like pretty fun.
unidentified
Yeah.
neal brennan
It's super fun.
But it's like not...
joe rogan
Daunting.
neal brennan
It's not trippy.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
You're not like, whoa.
joe rogan
You just feel really good.
neal brennan
Yeah, you just feel good.
I did that three times.
I did LSD once.
And I'm thinking, so now I'm going off.
And an interesting thing happened when I micro-dosed.
I got significantly less angry.
Just as like an operating principle.
Like I was just like, oh, I'm less angry.
Like I just didn't feel as like snappy and shitty.
Like...
For a long, for like, over a big period.
joe rogan
I got a buddy of mine who's a world champion kickboxer.
He microdoses and he fights on it.
Fights high on mushrooms.
neal brennan
Do they test for it?
joe rogan
Nope.
neal brennan
That's fine.
joe rogan
Fucking people up while he's on mushrooms.
neal brennan
That's great.
joe rogan
And I mean, better than he's ever looked in his past.
He said he could see things coming before they happen.
He said he literally feels like he's got some sort of psychic ability when he's sparring.
Like he sees what guys are doing.
And if you watch him fight, he just looks way sharper than he's ever looked before.
And homeboy's doing mushrooms.
neal brennan
Yeah.
So I've stopped taking Zoloft because you can't be on it and do Ibogaine.
joe rogan
Oh, interesting.
neal brennan
Because you risk serotonin syndrome, which is like too much serotonin in your body.
Yeah, too much serotonin.
joe rogan
Well, you were the first guy to tell me about 5-HTP before we even started selling it at all.
Before we started having a new mood.
You were telling me about 5-HTP. Sandy Danto told me about it.
No shit.
neal brennan
Yeah, because he sold me some ecstasy and he was like, yeah, and also take this the next day.
And then I researched and I was like, oh, I should just take...
So I still take that.
5-HTP I think is good for weight loss.
Really?
When I take 5-HTP I'm just not hungry.
That was the other sort of weird side effect of the microdosing.
My appetite went down, like, significantly across the board.
joe rogan
I wonder how much of the appetite is not really how much food you need, but rather you need something to do.
neal brennan
Yeah, or it's just like, at this time of day, I do this.
But I ended up losing 10 pounds.
joe rogan
That's interesting.
neal brennan
Me.
You're a thin guy.
I've lost 12 pounds, from 159 to 147. Wow.
Yeah.
But it's not like...
I'm not starving myself or anything.
joe rogan
Right, you didn't feel uncomfortable.
neal brennan
No, not at all.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Do you monitor your diet?
Are you eating healthy?
neal brennan
Yeah, like I got my blood tested probably three months ago and everything was good.
joe rogan
Are you eating sugar and bread and things like that?
neal brennan
I've eaten...
I've stopped...
I've eaten, I used to be a big dessert person, and I kind of just like, I think the mushrooms might have made me just go like, eh, you don't need that.
joe rogan
You don't.
neal brennan
You really don't.
And the sugar, you know the thing with sugar is, you don't eat it for three days if you don't want it.
Your body doesn't like, you gotta fucking get us some sugar.
You're just like, eh.
joe rogan
Once you cut free.
And especially if you're really conscious about what you're eating in terms of probiotics and things that sort of help the landscape, the biome landscape and make sure you've got healthy things in there.
I think that's so significant and the more researchers that I talk to and the more people that are nutrition experts to start talking about Your gut biome and how important it is to take the proper probiotics.
I think it affects your personality.
I think it affects your immune system.
I think it affects virtually the path of your life that you take.
Depending upon what foods you eat, it has a different effect on how you live your life.
neal brennan
Well, meditation does the same thing because you get a feeling from meditation.
And then you're like, do I want to spoil this?
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
With, like, garbage thinking or behavior?
unidentified
Right.
neal brennan
Like, let me just try to bring a bit of that into my everyday.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean, that's the tank for me.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
The tank is to me...
neal brennan
Until you, and I'm like, I live like a block from Float Lab.
joe rogan
You gotta go.
neal brennan
Like, I went, I think, you must, how long have you been doing this?
joe rogan
2002 was the first time I got one.
neal brennan
I tried it once before.
When did you start doing the podcast?
I think you told me about it.
joe rogan
2008?
neal brennan
You told me about it.
I went to Float Lab.
Had the thought in the tank, you gotta love something.
Literally, that was the thought I had, and then I got a dog.
Literally, I was like, I fucking...
I like that shit.
unidentified
And I just forget that it exists.
joe rogan
Tanks?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think they're giant.
I think it's one of those things that requires you to block off a chunk of your time.
So if you're a busy person, it's hard to pull that off.
But I think it's one of the most important things you can do.
neal brennan
How often do you do it?
joe rogan
Well, I haven't done it in a long time because I took the one out of my basement and I had it installed here.
neal brennan
Got it.
joe rogan
So it took me a few times off and we just got it put in two days ago.
So I haven't even been in it.
So I haven't been a tank at all in three months.
neal brennan
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
Two months?
Two months?
unidentified
Someone like that?
neal brennan
How often do you think you'll do it now?
joe rogan
A couple days a week.
A couple days a week is good.
If I can give myself two days a week, I'm happy.
neal brennan
Do you ever go in and just think about your daughters?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Sure, yeah.
I don't have a plan.
Sometimes I have a plan.
Maybe I'll have a bit that I'm trying to work out, and I'm just like, this bit is just clunky.
There's a part of it that's clunky.
I'll smoke some pot and climb in that tank and think about it.
neal brennan
There's like a pre- Fucking syllabus for the Ibogaine.
And it's like, you need to come with questions for Ibogaine.
unidentified
Whoa.
neal brennan
For Sweet Lady Ibogaine.
unidentified
Whoa.
neal brennan
And it's, I'm like, I have to write.
And then a friend of mine was like, can you ask a question for me?
It's like, no, I don't think that's legal.
I keep being like, hey, so, well, Lucy...
joe rogan
Lucy needs advice on her new book, man.
unidentified
So Lucy's curious about what's going on with her feet.
Yeah.
neal brennan
Yeah, but I'm looking forward to asking big questions.
Although, I gotta say, the last year has been very revealing for me in terms of what's important, what's valuable.
joe rogan
So how much of an effect did having a dog have on you?
Getting a dog something you love, you come home to?
neal brennan
Probably like 15-20%.
He's just a fucking good dude to have around.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Do you see that?
There was an article a couple weeks ago about dogs are so inbred that they're basically retarded.
They have some...
Jamie, will you look it up?
Because they have some...
We've just piles of piles of piles and generations of inbreeding that they have this disease that's tantamount to Down Syndrome.
joe rogan
That all dogs have this?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Really?
neal brennan
Wow.
Other than, yeah, I would assume other than the most highly trained German Shepherds are like, I'm not like them.
joe rogan
I've got a golden retriever that's a year old now, and when I come home, he's the only one that's awake.
I'll come home from the store, everybody else to sleep, and I come home like, my dude!
Dude, what's up?
And he's running around me and whining and kissing me.
neal brennan
Yeah, just feels good.
Just fucking good dudes.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I'd take him running.
neal brennan
Yeah, I've seen your videos.
That's one of my favorite things.
joe rogan
I love doing that.
neal brennan
And he loves it?
joe rogan
Oh, he loves it.
He gets so excited.
He hates going to my truck, but he'll go up to the truck like he knows.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then I'm like, come on in.
He won't hop in himself, but I'll pick him up like he knows he's gonna have a good time once he gets in there.
neal brennan
Yeah.
How long is the ride?
joe rogan
Just a few minutes.
It's not that bad.
neal brennan
Does he really?
joe rogan
He'll throw up if it's longer.
I've taken him on a 20-minute ride before and eventually he'll chuck.
He gets car sick.
neal brennan
Did you see that picture of somebody took a selfie while their dog was throwing up?
Holy shit, this is funny.
joe rogan
Golden Retrievers though, man, he's the first Golden Retriever I've had.
They are lovely dogs.
They're so sweet.
They're just like bundles of affection and happiness.
And he's smart, man.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, he's really easy to train.
He wants you to like him.
He wants you to be happy.
And so, like, when he finds the things that you'll be happy about, he, you know, he gravitates towards those.
neal brennan
Yeah.
That's...
Hold on.
joe rogan
They're such good dogs, man.
I mean, I've had a bunch of different kinds of dogs in my life, and I'm a big dog fan, but I'm just particularly impressed with Golden Retrievers.
Just so nice.
And he's so great with my kids, too.
That's the other thing.
He's just a big love bug.
neal brennan
My dog...
joe rogan
What do you got, Jamie?
Oh my god.
Oh my god, that picture's hilarious.
She caught the dog mid-hurl.
neal brennan
Goddamn it, that made me laugh so goddamn hard.
unidentified
Oh my god, my dog threw up while I was taking a selfie.
What is the gal's name?
joe rogan
It's not?
neal brennan
It looks like I reposted it.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
A repost.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, there's a few.
Is it?
What does it say up there?
unidentified
Likely.
joe rogan
Like?
unidentified
L-Y-K-K-E underscore L-I. Ah, that's a fucking hilarious meme.
neal brennan
Goddammit, that made me laugh so goddamn hard.
joe rogan
That is pretty fucking funny.
What kind of dog you got?
neal brennan
Pitbull.
Oh, there was another thing.
You know what else helped with negative thoughts?
It's a thing called, uh...
Murder?
joe rogan
He kills homeless people for you.
neal brennan
Cognitive behavioral therapy.
And it was basically, like, it's...
This made me laugh.
It's so dead-on.
They just have unhelpful thinking styles.
Jamie, you can bring this up, too, actually.
There's a chart.
One of them's all-or-nothing thinking, or black-and-white thinking, something like, if I'm not perfect, I've failed.
Either I do it right or not at all.
Just, like, dumb shit.
So anytime I think these things, there's gonna, no, you're disqualified.
Like, you gotta go.
unidentified
Okay.
neal brennan
Mental filter.
Only paying attention to certain types of evidence.
Noticing our failures, but not seeing our successes.
Jumping to conclusions.
Yeah.
unidentified
Hmm.
joe rogan
I'm thinking overgeneralizing.
Everything is always rubbish.
Nothing good ever happens.
neal brennan
A lot of these are literally just like comedy.
joe rogan
How do you make comedy?
Yeah, you have to exaggerate.
Jump to conclusions.
neal brennan
But they can be really destructive On a personal level.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
Oh yeah, for sure.
But I think everybody needs something difficult to do on top of what they already do.
This is my theory about stand-up comedy.
One of the ways that I've sort of tightened up my game over the last few years is to concentrate on difficult things outside of comedy.
Whether it's martial arts or whether it's yoga or bow hunting is another one for me.
Doing things that are very difficult makes comedy a little bit easier.
neal brennan
How come?
Because it's relatively easier?
joe rogan
Yeah, relatively easier, but also you recognize like...
It doesn't seem like bow hunting and stand-up comedy would ever go together.
But the way they go together is an absolute reality in bow hunting.
And it's fucking really difficult to do.
And in doing that, it just helps you manage the difficulties of stand-up better.
The same thing with jiu-jitsu.
I felt like jiu-jitsu helped me a lot with stand-up and martial arts in general.
Because jujitsu is so much more difficult to do than comedy.
Like, physically difficult.
Like, as you're doing it, you're groaning and straining and just barely, barely surviving certain situations and getting into positions where people are literally squeezing your fucking neck until you're about to black out.
And it just makes the uncomfortable feeling of anticipation of stand-up, it just makes it less dangerous.
Like, less scary.
neal brennan
I did a show last night at the Fonda, so it's like a theater, so to speak, audience, probably, I don't know, 800 people or something.
And I'd done a spot on Tuesday night, went great.
I've done spots every night for the last 10 years with some degree of decent.
And the thoughts I was having before I went on, like, no, you're going to throw up on your, like, literally, like, Throw up on yourself, and then I'm on stage.
I'm like, why did you think that was gonna happen, you fucking weirdo?
Like, none of it even came close to happening.
But your brain's just like, no, no, no.
This is gonna happen.
Like, this worst-case scenario shit that's so impractical.
The other thing, you know what's great and horrible about stand-up is somebody was saying, like, yeah, you can't compare your set to somebody else's, and it's like, I can't not.
I heard the laughs they got.
I want to get those laughs or better.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, you definitely can't have someone bombs.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they go, oh, this audience sucks.
craig jones
And you go up there and they're great.
neal brennan
Yeah.
Yeah, like I have to compare.
Like I can't, like, it's impossible not, I can't act like it didn't.
Businesses can't go like, oh, don't worry about that guy across the street who's in the exact same business.
joe rogan
Is it Theodore Roosevelt?
Comparison is the thief of joy?
neal brennan
Yes.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Yeah, but good luck following.
joe rogan
That shit.
neal brennan
Good luck following.
I mean, we all have to fucking...
You ever stick around just to see what the next guy gets?
unidentified
Sure.
neal brennan
Let me just see what...
joe rogan
I do, but I try to do it in a pure way.
I try to do it as a comedy fan.
I try to still be a comedy fan.
neal brennan
Yes, I've done that.
It's nine to one doing it as a fan.
Most of the time, especially at the store, I want to see the person on after me.
joe rogan
Don't you think the store is oddly supportive?
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
Yeah, because I never feel like if I catch a bad one, I never feel judged.
joe rogan
No.
neal brennan
By the guy I just brought up.
joe rogan
Well, that's another thing about, we were talking about this the other day, you catch a bad one at the store and everybody sort of wants to commiserate with you.
Like, oh, dude, last week I couldn't get a laugh to save my fucking life.
unidentified
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
And everybody wants to, it's not like, everyone knows, like, the level of comedy there is so high that everyone knows that everyone's legit.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
So it's not like, oh, Neil Brennan's losing it.
No, it's like, oh, he's trying out some new shit.
neal brennan
This fucking bum.
Yeah.
He's just going, yeah, he fucking...
It was his turn.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And there are just moments where it just...
neal brennan
I followed Eric Griffin probably a month ago, and he caught a bad one.
And I went, Eric Griffin, one of the worst spots he's had in a couple months.
They laughed, he laughed.
We're all just like, yeah, that was me three days ago.
joe rogan
It goes down.
Sometimes it's not pretty.
neal brennan
And no one is immune.
joe rogan
Especially in the OR. The OR, the original room, that room will fucking slap you in the face with reality.
Like no other room in the country.
neal brennan
Although, I have more bad sets in the main room than I do in the OR. Do you?
Yeah, because I don't even really know.
I feel like the OR suits me better, because I don't have to be gregarious and da-da-da.
You can just be like fucking...
You can be...
joe rogan
Dark creep.
neal brennan
Yeah, you can be a dark creep.
joe rogan
And you can be a dark creep in that OR.
But it's also, I think it's incredibly valuable to have that many high-level comics around you all the time.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
To see that level.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
To be inspired.
neal brennan
Yeah.
And like, oh, Jesus, that's a good joke.
Yeah.
Or like, fuck it.
Not even fuck.
Why didn't I think of it?
I'm jealous.
Just like...
You know, yeah, it's a good person.
joe rogan
Nailed it.
They nailed it.
neal brennan
I give it to him.
That's a fair fair.
He did it fair and square.
joe rogan
The only time I don't feel those like, God, you fucking nailed it.
Why didn't I think of that?
The only time I don't think like that is when I'm doing enough writing.
When I'm doing plenty of writing, those creepy, like jealousy thoughts don't get in there.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
Or the, you know, the whimsical like, oh, it could have been me if I just got there first.
neal brennan
And it is golf in that it's as much as you can hear the guy in front of you sink a long putt.
You still got, it's you against you.
It's still like, it doesn't mean, because you killed doesn't mean I can't.
joe rogan
Right, of course.
But if you think you can't, it does mean you can't.
neal brennan
Yes.
Oh, I know, I can tell you an hour before my set how I'm going to do.
I'm not even kidding.
I can just tell by my serotonin level.
unidentified
Hmm.
joe rogan
Do you ever try to break yourself out of it?
neal brennan
Yeah.
Do you have techniques?
Yes.
Positive visualization is good.
And just like taking a moment and like trying to get some serotonin going and like feel, just try to feel good.
joe rogan
For me, I move my body around.
I bounce around in place.
Like I jump around.
Like I'll stretch and just get everything moving.
Bob my hands.
Yeah, I've done that too.
Just start shadowboxing, just shuffle my feet, just get my blood pumping and get everything accelerating.
neal brennan
That's another thing that no one judges.
No one goes like, the fuck is Rogan?
You know what I mean?
Like, no one at the store would be like, we all just like, I've been in conversation with people.
If someone goes, hey, I gotta get ready, I'm not like, bro, you can't just walk up there, man.
What are you doing, bro?
joe rogan
One time Joey Diaz yelled at me for having a notebook.
You know, Joey's just got that weird thing like every now and then like, what are you doing with fucking ketchup and fries?
unidentified
Fries taste great on their own.
You don't need no fucking ketchup.
joe rogan
Like every now and then he'd just get crazy with some absolute.
And I had a notebook and he goes, what the fuck you doing with that notebook?
I go, I'm working on some new shit.
unidentified
He goes, you're carrying around that fucking notebook like those other momos that just want you to know that they're fucking writing.
Oh, I got my notebook.
Get the fuck out of here with notebooks.
joe rogan
And I was like, notebooks, Joey?
neal brennan
Yeah, Joey, is that where it is now?
joe rogan
I'm like, this is important.
There's a new bit.
neal brennan
I'll show you the bit.
I need to remember shit.
I literally have to remember shit.
joe rogan
I have all these new punchlines.
unidentified
I have to.
joe rogan
I don't want to fuck this up.
neal brennan
Yeah.
unidentified
You know what the fuck you're doing.
Come on, dog.
Get the fucking notebook out of here.
neal brennan
Again, talk about hearing what the guy in front of you gets.
joe rogan
You can't.
neal brennan
Following him is just like...
unidentified
Yeah.
neal brennan
Okay, you guys want some fucking thoughtful notions?
That's how I feel after him.
I feel like I might as well go up as like a fucking professor.
Might as well have like a briefcase like, good evening, class.
joe rogan
Well, that's one of the reasons why I started taking Joey on the road with me.
Just because I was scared to follow him.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I also wanted the best comedians I could work with.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I was like, I've had people come out to see me.
I don't want to be the only one funny.
I want everybody else to be funny, too, because I'd bring the best guys I could.
And I realized that you just got to be able to ride the wave of Joey Diaz.
neal brennan
Yes.
It's like that with anybody.
Yes.
Theo Vaughn had to follow Chappelle the other night, and he was like, I was scared.
Yeah.
They're so gacked from seeing somebody that famous that they're like, you just don't fuck with it.
joe rogan
Yeah, if you're comfortable, you could ride the wave.
But if you're insecure because, oh my god, I'm going after Joey Diaz, shit and that nervousness and that feeling.
I took Joey on the Road with me once in New Jersey and I bombed.
It was like the last time I bombed going on after Joey.
And he went up and fucking murdered.
And he was fucking with the crowd.
Like, I forget what happened.
But I remember that feeling as I was going up to the stage like, this is not going to be good.
I don't have it in me.
And it was a transitionary period in my act.
Where I was like, not quite.
Didn't have the bits down yet.
unidentified
Still working on putting it together.
joe rogan
But that's one of the reasons why I used to love taking him with.
I can't anymore because it's too successful.
But I would still love taking him with me.
neal brennan
Rock does that.
If Rock's doing a weekend, when he first had his new hour, he's like, I gotta get Earthquake out here, man.
He's like, I need good sparring partners.
I need people that are like...
Fucking, I'm afraid to follow.
He's like, I get Earthquake and Leslie out here.
joe rogan
Earthquake will murder a room.
neal brennan
Yeah, you don't even know.
It's one of those things where he's already murdered them.
joe rogan
When he gets out there.
neal brennan
Like, it's all so high level.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
It's insane.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
He also had a thing, his last special, he fucked a joke up and kept it in.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
neal brennan
And it's like, oh, y'all never fucked up?
It's fucking really funny.
It's really funny.
That dude is really...
joe rogan
Oh, y'all never fucked up a joke?
unidentified
Yeah.
neal brennan
Y'all never fucked up your job!
It's a haggie thing to say, other than the way he did it was so fucking funny.
joe rogan
That's very smart of him to do that, to bring those guys with him.
neal brennan
Just murderer after murderer.
joe rogan
That's wise.
neal brennan
And then you have to fucking...
Then you can't be like...
No.
Because it's like, I don't care about fame.
I didn't know who that person was, and he's fucking hilarious.
joe rogan
Well, that is not just about comedy, and I think that relates to a lot of the problems that a lot of people have in life with what you would call haters.
Like, what a lot of haters are is they see people that are doing way better than them, they see things that are happening, and there's some things legitimately to hate, right?
But then there's a lot of haters that are haters about athletes or about singers or rappers or whatever.
A lot of it is just jealousy.
And that jealousy is they look at themselves, they look at that person, they don't like the way they measure up, and so all they can concentrate on...
It's trying to find something wrong with that person.
And not being, instead, inspired.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
And, like, being inspired is so much more beneficial to you, it's so much healthier, and it's so much more of a strong move.
neal brennan
Yeah.
It doesn't...
You're not...
I think a lot of times with this, it goes to that power thing.
I think some guys, sometimes guys especially, will see their career as revenge.
I think there is a little a little bit of that is worthwhile Yeah, but I don't I think it can poison a fucking sure poison you if you're if you're consumed by it because there's guys that we all know that are just like All they do is like you see what so-and-so got you're like yeah, those guys are useless Yeah, again, he's not it wasn't between you and him and it takes their work to that mindset that limited growth mindset that fucks with their work Yeah.
Just try to be original and as good as you possibly.
Somebody the other night was complaining like, yeah, my agent didn't, he moved and they didn't tell me.
And I was like, dude, every job you ever get is going to be from other comics.
It's every job.
Every job I've ever gotten is from the Boston Comedy Club, the Comedy Cellar, and the store.
Literally in my entire career.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
neal brennan
I mean, basically, I was videotaping people for casting director when I worked at Boston.
Got a job out here working for her.
Then I started working for...
We cast MTV Singled Out.
I got a writing job there.
Next door was Nickelodeon and all that.
Started talking to them.
Got a job there.
Me and Chappelle Wright Half-Baked.
Him I know from Boston.
Then I write movies for a while.
Then we do Chappelle Show.
Still from Boston.
And then I'm like in showbiz and it's all like a direct...
It's all a direct current from that.
Every commercial, I direct commercials, it's all from, that's from Chappelle's show, because it's like a long story, but like, Air Jordan, I did a thing with them, and then they were like, you should do more commercials, so I do commercials, and it's like, it's all from your peers.
joe rogan
Right, right.
neal brennan
It's literally all from your peers, that's it.
That's the only people that are gonna get you, they're the people that are gonna hire you.
joe rogan
Some people don't like to think that way because I think there's like this embedded mindset that used to exist when there was a limited number of jobs.
neal brennan
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's like only two guys could have, you know, one guy's gonna be competing against someone else for The Tonight Show.
Only one guy's gonna get it.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, that's not the case anymore.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
There's so much abundance.
neal brennan
By the way, there's too much.
joe rogan
Almost, right?
neal brennan
I mean, it's too much to keep up with.
joe rogan
Just all the Netflix specials.
neal brennan
You can't watch all this shit.
I truly don't have time.
I don't know how people do it.
But that's what it comes down to.
It's not being competitive with people.
It's supporting people.
joe rogan
And being inspired by the people that are really good.
That's fuel.
neal brennan
Yeah, like I was telling somebody...
It's a long story, but a girl I know who is a producer at a TV show, and she hadn't watched my Netflix special.
And I'm like, we're friends.
And I was like, you're stupid for not watching it.
A, because it's...
I go, A, it's insulting to me.
You're directly insulting me.
You're literally just hurting my feelings going out of your way.
And I go, and B, you're in comedy.
It's a well-regarded thing.
Like, just inform yourself.
I was like, I saw Schumer do a joke Nine years ago that I really liked and just texted her like didn't really know her at all I was like hey that joke's fucking great and then she asked me to direct her show you know what I mean like and I'm not I didn't do it to get her to you know what I mean it's just this thing of just like yeah that's how you make relationships you just like I like that some people don't like watches stand-up though like no that's what she said she's like I just don't like stand-up And I was like, okay.
I was like, I go, that's completely fair.
joe rogan
Well, Norton likes it, but he doesn't want to be influenced, so he doesn't watch any stand-up.
neal brennan
Yeah, that's fair.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
This girl just doesn't.
She's like, I just like scripted comedy better.
unidentified
Whoa.
neal brennan
And I was like, okay.
joe rogan
She insulted you.
neal brennan
She insulted you.
Bro.
unidentified
Bro.
neal brennan
To my face, bro.
joe rogan
That bitch.
Can't believe it.
neal brennan
Hey, I gotta go to the dentist.
joe rogan
Go to the fucking dentist, man.
Get your teeth dead.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So, come back after you do Ibogaine.
neal brennan
Oh, cannot wait.
joe rogan
How long are you going to be up there for?
neal brennan
Three or four days.
joe rogan
How many different treatments?
One treatment, and the other days are just...
neal brennan
Kick it.
unidentified
Just relax.
neal brennan
I mean, one day is like, you gotta write your questions.
joe rogan
Yeah.
neal brennan
One day is like, I'm getting there Monday, I do it Tuesday, and then that bleeds into Wednesday.
joe rogan
It's like a 24-hour experience, right?
neal brennan
They say 24 to 36. Ooh.
Which I'm really...
I watched a bunch of videos.
You know what's funny is so many...
If you go on YouTube and just fucking type in anything, so much of it comes back to this.
To your show.
joe rogan
Uh-oh.
neal brennan
No, in a good way.
Like, so-and-so talks about blank.
joe rogan
Right.
neal brennan
Like, if you...
Especially drugs.
Um...
Like, it's, and there was a lot of, it was a dude who you've had on here, I can't remember his name, but, like, Spencer or something, I don't know, but, uh, who had talked about doing ibogaine.
Have you done ayahuasca?
unidentified
Aubrey?
neal brennan
Yeah, Aubrey, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
No, I haven't done ayahuasca.
neal brennan
Have you done ibogaine?
joe rogan
DMT. Yeah.
I've done, I've done mushrooms, done acid, never done, uh, never done ibogaine.
But I've always associated Ibogaine with being one that people use to cure addictions.
neal brennan
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
I'm addicted to the game.
joe rogan
The game, son.
neal brennan
I'm trying to get loose from this game.
joe rogan
Ladies and gentlemen, the great and powerful Neil Brennan.
neal brennan
Good time, Joey.
joe rogan
Until we meet again, my friend.
unidentified
Yes, my friend.
joe rogan
Thank you.
Enjoy your Ibogaine adventures.
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