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Nov. 28, 2017 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:00:48
Joe Rogan Experience #1045 - Bryan Callen
Participants
Main voices
b
bryan callen
01:12:56
j
joe rogan
01:40:43
Appearances
Clips
b
benjamin jaffe
00:04
j
jamie vernon
00:46
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Speaker Time Text
joe rogan
I was listening to some old-timey music the other day, and it was making me think of how depressing it would be if that was the only music that you could hear.
unidentified
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.
bryan callen
It's the David Lynch movie.
David Lynch, in his movies, he always has those songs, like there's a woman dead in a hotel, and there's just this...
joe rogan
Can you imagine living in the days where that tuba with a needle at the bottom of it?
bryan callen
My grandfather had one of those.
unidentified
Really?
bryan callen
In my home in Pelham, in his home in Pelham, New York, they had an old chronograph.
I think that's what it's called, right?
unidentified
That's crazy.
bryan callen
A chronograph, and they would play classical.
My grandparents never listened to, they were Sicilian, they never listened to music.
joe rogan
Did your parents or your grandparents have the TV in a cabinet?
bryan callen
Uh-huh.
They certainly did.
joe rogan
And then if the TV would die, a lot of times folks would put the new TV on top of the cabinet.
They would keep the cabinet with the blown out TV. Yeah.
Dude, everybody did that!
bryan callen
Well, I had a family that never threw anything away.
joe rogan
No, mine not.
bryan callen
Never, ever.
I'm talking about road cones.
You go up to my attic, you find crazy shit up there.
unidentified
Yes.
A phonograph, not a chronograph.
bryan callen
A phonograph.
joe rogan
What's a chronograph?
bryan callen
But they also had a chronograph.
joe rogan
A watch.
Oh, right, right.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, chronology.
God damn it.
joe rogan
Yeah, those things are crazy.
Like, that was how they used to listen to music.
A tuba attached to a needle.
unidentified
That's right.
joe rogan
And you'd hear...
And the speaker must have sounded like dog shit.
bryan callen
My dad used to have a dust cover for his turntable.
And he would...
There was a ritual to how you clean your LP. Oh, there's a ritual?
Yeah.
You gotta dust it off.
You have a special cloth and all that shit.
joe rogan
Look at that thing.
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
Just take a peek at that fucker.
Look at that.
That's nuts.
bryan callen
It's incredible.
joe rogan
For people at home, it looks like...
It does look like a traffic cone.
Right?
It does, right?
Like a big old brass traffic car.
bryan callen
I read that Ted Williams, the great baseball player, Ted Williams, who could hit a fastball, hit any kind of ball, and he apparently could read the label of a record as it was going around.
His eyes could slow shit down.
joe rogan
Holy shit.
bryan callen
Yeah.
I wonder if that's true.
joe rogan
I wonder, well, yeah.
bryan callen
These are one of these things you hear, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
Like Joe Frazier was in a hotel room.
There were four flies in the room.
Sorry about the flies.
And he went, and caught them all.
And he goes, here are your flies.
Get the fuck out of here.
joe rogan
Eddie Griffin was telling us a Bruce Lee story once.
It was one of those.
I heard that Bruce Lee was in a fight with 30 men.
And he stood in the center of all of them.
And you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Where'd you hear this?
bryan callen
I heard he never was in a ring.
I heard he never sparred once.
I don't think Bruce Lee ever fought.
joe rogan
Well, it says it here.
bryan callen
Did he ever fight competitively?
joe rogan
It was rumored.
No, but he did one thing once where he sparred at this karate festival.
bryan callen
One sparring session.
joe rogan
Cool.
All right, well, good luck.
Well, there you can see.
bryan callen
Good luck against a guy like Darren Till.
joe rogan
No, good luck to everybody against a guy like Darren Till.
bryan callen
Yeah, that's true.
unidentified
Good luck.
bryan callen
Good luck.
I mean, God.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Vinny Shorman, who is...
He does color commentary for a lot of big Muay Thai events.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And super knowledgeable, like as a striker.
And he's also a hypnotist.
I got hypnotized by him a couple times.
Really?
I kept my pants on.
unidentified
Damn it.
joe rogan
But he got me.
bryan callen
Sorry.
joe rogan
Yeah, he hypnotized me.
Fascinating.
Hypnotism is fascinating.
bryan callen
Did you get hypnotized?
Because you're...
joe rogan
100%.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, I gave in to it.
Just let yourself achieve the state.
But you realize what it is.
It's like, oh, you've got this idea where someone can turn you into a Manchurian candidate if they hypnotize you and you wouldn't have control of your brain anymore.
No, no, no.
You're relaxing.
You're relaxing and you're open to suggestion in an interesting state of mind that you can achieve.
See, I just think there's a larger spectrum Of the way the mind works then we give it credit for and I think what I've been thinking about this a lot that that's one of the things that happens with stand-up I think if you're on stage and you're killing and stand-up if I'm in the audience It's like you've got me hypnotized.
I'm locked up into your line of thinking and Like your act is very silly So like when I'm watching you like I start thinking in silly ways And then you'll keep getting sillier and sillier and then like I'm locked into your head.
It's like a full.
It's a form of hypnosis 100% And I think that so is, like, being in a good place.
Thank you, young Jamie.
So is being in a good place mentally, so is being in a bad place.
I think there's, like, there's a large spectrum in the mind of all these different...
Cheers.
Where are you going, fucker?
You can't...
bryan callen
What kind of wine is this?
joe rogan
Stag's leaf.
bryan callen
Stag's leaf is fantastic.
Artemis.
joe rogan
Cheers, James.
bryan callen
It's all right.
It's a solid wine.
It's a good juice, guys.
joe rogan
My gentleman.
bryan callen
I like when people do this.
It's a good juice.
It's a good juice.
unidentified
Mmm.
joe rogan
Hey, those guys are gross.
Hey, you guys who say it's a good juice and you're talking about wine.
bryan callen
It's a sexy juice.
Stop talking to me.
Honestly, it's a sexy juice.
joe rogan
It kind of feels like a...
Can't talk to you.
bryan callen
It's like taking a big bite out of wet hay.
joe rogan
Not gonna do it.
bryan callen
It's like having a wet dog...
joe rogan
It's a great juice.
bryan callen
...shake itself at you.
joe rogan
Have you ever gone to a real wine tasting with a bunch of nerds?
bryan callen
Sure have.
Because I'm one of those nerds.
joe rogan
Have you ever gone to a wine tasting where you graded a wine?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
And you stood up and said it has woody aftertones and there's a...
bryan callen
I was invited by a guy a long time ago, 20 years ago...
And he said, I'm going to invite you to a wine tasting where we all bring our own wines.
He's a good guy.
I said, well, what do I bring?
And he said, I don't want to insult you, but you can't afford the kind of wines that we're bringing.
So I'm going to bring you a bottle from my cellar so it doesn't make you look.
That's how big these wines were.
And I was there with the guy from like Zaki's or whatever, the different Sotheby's.
The guys that set the standard and write the thing.
And I was watching him taste it and write down notes.
It was really wild.
Nutmeg, leather, mushrooms, earth, you know, all kinds of weird tasting notes.
It's so subjective.
joe rogan
My buddy Matt is a huge wine head.
He's got his own cellar in his house.
It's all temperature controlled.
If I'm at a restaurant, I'll call Matt.
Powerful Matt Lichtenberg.
I'll call him up and I'll go, hey, okay, let me tell you what I got.
Tell me what to get.
And he'll just like, oh, the reason why this one sucks and stay away from this one and this is what you want.
That's your groove right there.
Grab that one.
I'm like, okay.
And he's always right.
Yeah.
jamie vernon
LeBron's been known as a new wine head.
unidentified
Oh, LeBron.
bryan callen
Okay, that Sassikai is a ridiculously good one.
joe rogan
I've had that at 97. So LeBron is a wine head.
Powerful!
jamie vernon
Yeah, he has quite a few bottles of Opus One, apparently, which is...
bryan callen
Opus One is not...
That Sassikai is way better than Opus One.
joe rogan
Look at what he wrote here.
Last night was mad real.
Fresh out of Advil.
Jesus grabbed the wheel.
Sheesh.
Imagine getting fucked up with LeBron James.
bryan callen
I think I brought that wine to your, the one with the yellow label.
joe rogan
I think you did.
bryan callen
I think I brought that here.
joe rogan
I think you did, yeah.
That looks very familiar.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And some good-ass fucking wine.
bryan callen
Chasson Montruchet.
joe rogan
Good-ass wine, Mr. Super Athlete.
bryan callen
There you go.
joe rogan
That's a real one.
There's some real super athletes we gotta listen.
bryan callen
He's an avatar.
joe rogan
I don't give a fuck what kind of steroids you take.
You ain't never gonna look like that!
unidentified
Never!
joe rogan
Never!
There's human beings that have just the most unfathomable physical advantages.
bryan callen
It's ridiculous.
joe rogan
Like, LeBron James would have an unfathomable physical advantage over someone who would have an unfathomable physical advantage over you.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Well, I did a thing.
I asked the guy who follows this, Jimmy Burke, about LeBron James.
I called him up and I left him one message.
I go, I said, Jim, and I want you to be honest and don't insult me.
At what age did LeBron James surpass me as an athlete?
And be careful with your fucking answer.
Because I'm a proud man.
I'm a proud man and I'll kick your fucking ass.
I hung up the phone.
I got a very thoughtful, very thoughtful dissertation and I just got this.
12 years old.
And there's no question about that.
12. By the time he was 14, he's 6'4", 235. Best player in the country.
You were not that.
You're not even close to that.
joe rogan
He was 14?
He was 6'4"?
bryan callen
Yeah, I think he was 6'4".
Look at him.
Yeah, he's a freak.
Yeah, there you go.
joe rogan
Look at the size of him.
Oh my God.
bryan callen
Yeah, he's 6'9", 265. And I sat next to Carlos Puzer, who played with him.
And they're the same size.
And he goes, he's just a step faster than everybody as well.
And just ridiculously strong.
joe rogan
Well, see, a guy like that, if he was fighting, everybody would be fucked.
bryan callen
Of course.
joe rogan
They're lucky.
They are goddamn lucky there's that much money in basketball.
That's right.
He's incredibly fast.
And people go, well, you know what, man, some things that make great...
bryan callen
Look at him.
joe rogan
Basketball player.
Wouldn't necessarily make you a great fighter.
Uh-huh.
Listen.
Listen to me.
Save it.
That guy's gonna beat your fucking ass.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's a winner.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
There's just a certain level of winners.
He'd do whatever the fuck he wants.
bryan callen
Whatever he wants.
joe rogan
Bo Jackson could have done whatever the fuck he wanted.
bryan callen
I worked with Bo Jackson for...
A week.
joe rogan
Did you?
bryan callen
Yes, I did.
And he was...
And I said, what do you weigh?
He was in a white t-shirt.
And I was looking at the thickness of his fingers.
You know me.
I obsess because I'm basically a gay man.
So I was looking at his hands.
I grabbed his hands.
It was just this giant...
And I said, what do you weigh?
He goes, I'm...
He said, I remember it.
It was so weird.
It was so specific.
He said, I'm 6'1 1⁄2", 240 pounds.
245 pounds.
And he was the same size when he played, and he never has lifted weights in his life.
Ever.
And he didn't lift weights when he played.
He would just, as in his words, I'd just strap it on, and I'd hear the other team going, Bo's in the game.
Bo's in the game.
But you have to also understand that Bo Jackson not only did whatever he wanted to you on the football field, faster than everybody at 245 and stronger, he was also a...
Was he not an MVP in baseball?
unidentified
All-star, at least.
bryan callen
I don't know about MVP, but for sure all-star, yeah.
That's unheard of.
Deion Sanders played both ways, but there's no one like...
Bo Jackson.
That's crazy.
Throwing BBs, throwing fucking ropes from center field.
I mean, a whole different kind of guy.
joe rogan
And one tackle, one hip injury.
That's right.
Changed all that shit.
bryan callen
Well, his hip started to die.
It was some kind of an acritis in his bone or something like that.
joe rogan
It was from getting hit.
There was a very famous hit that he got tackled.
You could see, like, The impact that it has on his hips when he goes down.
Am I remembering that correctly?
There was a video of it, right?
Yeah, you see the injury.
Just a ridiculous athlete.
And he still came back and was smashing home runs with a fake hip.
Came back and played baseball.
Just couldn't really run anymore, you know?
bryan callen
Just a different kind of guy.
joe rogan
I wonder if they could fix that hip now, you know?
Think about what his hip was then and what his hip is now.
bryan callen
Well, I think you have to generate tissue.
joe rogan
So I don't know if we're there yet, but we're getting close What I mean is like the artificial hips.
I wonder if those are better now.
bryan callen
I don't know Did you read a book called Sapiens?
I sent you probably not but Yuval Harari everybody should read it It's an amazing book and it's a brief history of mankind But it brings us to present day and he also wrote another book called Homo Deus.
I think when you send this to me I sent you a screenshot, so you've got to read this book.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
bryan callen
But he talks about where we're headed technologically.
He's really done the research.
I mean, really looking honestly at what...
joe rogan
Medical research.
bryan callen
What to expect in the next 30 years.
joe rogan
What does he say?
bryan callen
Well, I mean, you know, not only are we going to live much longer if you have the money, but...
The real question he ends the book with in a way is we have to decide as human beings for the first time in our history we can control our own evolution.
So we have to ask ourselves what we want to become.
That's a really big responsibility.
What do you want to become?
What do we want to become?
Because that question can be answered.
We will have the technology to answer that question.
And it can get silly where you can say we could splice our genes with a lion or with a gorilla, but more importantly, we'll be able to splice our genes with synthetic biology and become...
But it's a very heavy question.
So if you want to live forever, if you become what he called, I think it was amoral, or there's a different word for it.
joe rogan
People are going to get mad at you for fucking 50-year-olds.
Like, they don't know anything yet.
God, how could you fuck a 50-year-old?
You'd be like a thousand years old.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
You'd be so smart and so wise.
People go, you know how gross you are?
You're fucking someone who's 50 years old.
Like, as a human, we figured, look, we only think of ourselves as like, oh, you should have your shit together by 50. Because we know we only live to be 100. But the reality is most people don't get their shit together, period.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, it's a race that nobody's winning.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
But we all know that if we had an infinite amount of time, we would keep getting better at getting our shit together.
You would not be who you were yesterday and hopefully you'd be much better than you were a year ago.
bryan callen
But I think about something different.
joe rogan
But if that's the case though, if you get to 900 years old, are you still allowed to bang 50 year olds?
bryan callen
She's a fucking kid, bro.
joe rogan
I mean, when is it okay?
I mean, if she's super hot.
bryan callen
Well, vampires fuck like 30-year-olds.
joe rogan
Right, but we're talking about people, bro.
bryan callen
Apparently not if we can live that long.
joe rogan
No, if they figure out medical science, and this is not outside the realm of possibility, they can regenerate tissue and use stem cells to rejuvenate your body and you live 900 fucking years old, are you allowed to bang 50-year-olds?
Or are you gross?
bryan callen
Actually, I think the answer is it takes time and it flips it on its head.
Time no longer has a consequence because you don't really have limitations.
The biggest thing about human beings is that we have limitations.
We know we're going to die.
That's the fundamental difference between the idea of a robot being just like a human.
We are defined by our limitations.
joe rogan
Right, but you know why they bring the draft around and try to get young people to get drafted.
They don't want to go after 40-year-olds and 50-year-olds because it won't work.
I wonder if it gets to a certain age.
I wonder if you live to a certain age and cults just don't work anymore.
I wonder if it only works up until you're 50 or 60 or 70, but if people live forever, it would be just like telling Santa Claus to a little kid.
You tell Santa Claus to your five-year-old, they're like, whoa, Santa Claus is real.
You tell Santa Claus to a 15-year-old, they're like, what the fuck are you talking about?
Same kid.
They'd be like, Dad, you're retarded.
Stop this.
bryan callen
This is so stupid.
It depends on whether or not you've broadened your understanding.
joe rogan
There are a lot of old people that are not.
But if you're a cult leader and you're 900 years old and you're just banging all these 50-year-old ladies, you're an asshole.
They're like little kids still.
bryan callen
Maybe.
Well, 50-year-olds are not going to look like 50-year-olds.
joe rogan
They're not going to look really hot.
But my point is, they're still going to be naive.
They still put fucking holy water on themselves.
There's going to be weird shit.
bryan callen
But they'll be attracted to the 900-year-old because you'll be full of wisdom.
joe rogan
Plus, you'll be like a sorcerer.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
What kind of power you'd have if you're nine years old?
bryan callen
Well, as you get older, the mystery of life breaks down.
You remember when you were younger and you'd see somebody who's really good at something?
You're like, God, they're a genius.
And then you kind of get, you start, you know, you get to a certain age where you get good at something or you just start to do it enough and you go, there's a certain formula to success.
Like sometimes, like, to be really good at something, there's a mindset for competition.
But to be really good at something also just requires a shitload of repetition and good tutelage.
joe rogan
There's a lot of that.
A lot of focus.
And one of the things that you recognize in people when you see enough people that are really, truly awesome at something, you see enough of them, you start to recognize this thing.
I especially can see it in musicians because I have zero talent.
Because I have zero musical talent.
What?
Zero!
bryan callen
Have you ever tried to actually hold a tune?
No.
Just try this.
Try to sing.
All serious.
Don't laugh.
Try to sing.
Just look at me.
It's embarrassing, but do it.
Try to sing.
I want you to sing Silent Night, Holy Night.
Try to hit it, then do it right, and then I'm going to try it.
It's so hard.
joe rogan
I'm so nervous.
bryan callen
It's so vulnerable.
I'm asking you to sing two verses.
joe rogan
But isn't it funny that making noises with your mouth is very vulnerable?
unidentified
Silent night, holy night.
joe rogan
That's not bad.
All is calm.
bryan callen
Can you not be that whispery?
Can you get a little power?
joe rogan
There you go.
bryan callen
There you go.
unidentified
Down young virgin mother and child.
joe rogan
What's the rest?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
Something in heavenly peace?
unidentified
Holy infant's a tender and mild.
Holy infant, so tender and mild.
joe rogan
I forgot already.
Sleep.
unidentified
Sleep in heavenly peace.
joe rogan
I went immediately to the douchebag singer voice.
The whispery.
bryan callen
I know you did, but you know what you had?
I think you were on tuned.
I think he was tuned, wasn't he, Jamie?
unidentified
Tuner and key.
joe rogan
Don't trust anybody who talks to you like that.
Listen to me, ladies.
bryan callen
That's my joke where I talk about that.
I go, you can say nice dress, just don't whisper it.
That's where it's creepy.
That's funny.
There's certain things you can't whisper in life.
You can be like, your daughter is so cute.
If you're like, your daughter is so cute.
It's creepy.
joe rogan
The creepy voice is recognized.
But you know what is a fucking confusing ass voice?
It's the scary voice.
You know, the scary voice like, next on Twilight Zone.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like any scary monster, like, and then they went down the dark, dark road.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
Those people who have that kind of a scary voice this summer.
joe rogan
And here's another one that doesn't work.
All the hottest girls.
All the hottest dancing.
Like that kind of like hot and sexy.
bryan callen
Those are those old commercials, remember?
joe rogan
Right, but there's like a weird rhythm to the way they're talking.
It's like they're establishing very clear parameters for vocabulary.
All the hottest girls.
There's not going to be some soliloquies on your interpretation of consciousness as you know it versus the subjective view of the universe.
No, no.
It's all the hottest girls.
All the hottest dancing.
It's like you have these really short sentences without much depth.
bryan callen
We're really in tune.
We're in tune with those rhythms.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Those girls are saying, look, to cut the bullshit, we're down to fuck.
We've got fake tits and we're drunk.
bryan callen
Woo!
joe rogan
That's what they're saying with that voice.
That's what that voice is.
bryan callen
Did you ever hear the experiment they did where they played doctors?
So they took different doctors and some had been sued a lot.
And then they just took the doctors at bedside.
They recorded them speaking.
And they took out the words so you could only hear the tone of their voice.
And people said, I don't like that guy.
And they didn't know what they were saying.
They said, I don't like that guy.
And without almost like most of them chose the doctors that had been sued.
And it turned out that they had a dominant tone so that their tone and the sound of their voice was what people objected to.
And because their bedside manner This is Malcolm Gladwell's book.
Their bedside manner was dominant.
They weren't sort of understanding and listening.
They were rather telling the patient something.
Those were the doctors, regardless of their errors or what they did, that had nothing to do with their degrees, didn't even have to do with what they did.
Those were the ones that got sued for malpractice.
joe rogan
Yeah, now I remember.
That's from Blink, right?
bryan callen
Yes, I think it's from Blink.
joe rogan
Blink's a great book.
bryan callen
Yeah, it is.
joe rogan
It's great.
And it's a great audio book, too.
I got that one on audio book.
bryan callen
I listened to it on audio.
joe rogan
It's very important.
bryan callen
I always listen to shit on audio.
I listen to Sapiens on audio.
It's very good.
Because I drive.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a very good way to, you know, I like podcasts, but I like to mix it up.
It's like I don't want to only watch documentaries.
I like watching fiction, too.
I like to mix things up with what I take in and what I view, but I think that, like, audio books in particular, it's a great way to utilize, like, wasted time.
bryan callen
Yeah, 100%.
100%.
Instead of listening to music, I always listen to...
I listen to a whole course on Nietzsche.
joe rogan
How crazy was that story in Blink about the artwork where they found this old statue and this art expert looked at it for a second and went, it's fake.
How much did you pay for it?
bryan callen
Remember what came to his mind?
Remember the word that came to his mind?
Fascinating.
He knew it was fake because...
unidentified
Knew?
bryan callen
Nope.
Close.
What was it?
It was supposed to be a statue that was buried for 3,000 years, a kouros.
Right.
Like a fully formed...
Kouros is a young boy in Greek.
So it was a fully formed statue, which is near Thessaloniki or something.
And they tested the rock.
The marble came from a quarry near there.
They even tested the mold, which actually turned out to be something they put on potatoes, but the mold seemed legit and all that stuff.
But he, the minute he saw it, he said, can you get your money back?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
This is a fake and he didn't know why, but the first word that came to mind was fresh.
joe rogan
Fresh.
bryan callen
Kind of crazy, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, makes sense.
bryan callen
That's not what you're supposed to hear.
joe rogan
But isn't it crazy that he was right?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
That you could just see?
Like, for you and I, it would be like, wow, crazy statue.
You know what I mean?
We wouldn't have...
But there's certain things that I'm sure you could see.
Sure.
Like, there's certain things...
Like, here's one that I see all the time.
I see when people are about to spin.
From all my years of Taekwondo.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
It's like a little simple dip that people go...
He's looking to spin.
bryan callen
I've heard you call that a lot.
joe rogan
All the time.
Because once you learn it when you're a little kid, because you've been kicked in the head a few times, it becomes a part of your life.
bryan callen
Pattern recognition.
joe rogan
You see this little thing, oh, he's trying to spin.
He's trying to spin.
And you see it, whereas a regular person, I was like, how the fuck are you seeing that?
Well, I've seen it because people have hit me.
Don't get hit by that.
Like when you see that move, like, oh, get out of there.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Well, one of the wealthiest guys, my friend who made a billion dollars more, his buddy is worth some crazy amount of money.
And he said, what's your secret?
And he said, mirrors and windows.
I said, what do you mean?
He said, I can tell if somebody's going to pay me back.
I can tell if somebody's a good investment or not.
And he said, well, how?
And he goes, you either got windows or you got mirrors for eyes.
And if you got mirrors for eyes, you can go fuck yourself.
If you got windows, I'm going to lend you money.
And that's an instinct he would just pick up on.
He could pick up on sincerity and he could pick up on whether or not you were a phony.
joe rogan
You know, that's a real problem with communicating with people in non-verbal ways.
In non-face-to-face ways.
It's a real problem with texting and stuff like that.
You're not looking into the person.
I think it changes the way we talk to each other.
It changes interactions.
And I think most of the problem that people have most of the time with each other is not talking, like today, and especially, not talking enough looking at each other in the eyes.
bryan callen
That's exactly right.
joe rogan
And figuring out, like, if maybe someone's right, and maybe you're wrong about something, you gotta talk to them.
And you go, okay, well, what did you think I was supposed to do?
And I did that?
Okay.
Okay, and what time were you supposed to be there?
What time did we say?
I thought we said this.
And you can try to figure it out.
Well, you're looking at each other.
When someone could say, look, man, I was really bummed out.
It was this really important thing.
You were supposed to pick me up.
And then you could work it out.
You could look at each other and work it out.
But when you go through these series of text messages, I've had text message discussions with people like, hey, man, I can't do this.
Let's just talk.
Can we just talk?
Because this is crazy.
Because I don't know what your face is making when you're making this statement.
You're saying something, and it's not entirely accurate, and I'm trying to figure out what the fuck your face looks like.
Are you laughing?
Is this LOL? Can we look at each other?
Because I bet we could work this shit out.
bryan callen
That is the problem with reading sometimes about something and thinking you're getting the whole picture.
What I like about Thaddeus Russell is that his book, A Renegade History of the United States, I think it's called, He actually takes a look at things that I've never heard.
I was a history major.
And historians tend to be pretty conservative, stodgy people, right?
Your average college professor is a pretty conservative guy, even though he might be very left wing.
They're conservative people.
They're not going to find them at an orgy or, you know, usually, or various things.
And especially with historians.
And when they write history, they always write it from this really stodgy kind of, you hear about the events.
You actually don't hear about what it was like in the brothels.
You don't hear about what it smelled like in the bars.
You don't hear about the noise.
You don't hear about things that actually have an effect on people.
Who were the criminals?
How safe were the streets?
Where were the prostitutes?
Who was actually getting laid?
Was there a lot of black and white sex that went on during the Revolutionary War, which apparently there was.
What about dancing?
joe rogan
I bet there's a lot of dirty white ladies that got some dark dicking.
bryan callen
I can only hope.
Woo!
joe rogan
It's the ultimate fuck you to your dad.
bryan callen
Yes, it is.
joe rogan
Can you imagine?
bryan callen
Yes, it is.
joe rogan
How many chicks just fucking couldn't wait?
bryan callen
I know.
As soon as the veil was lifted.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
As they say.
joe rogan
My dad is fighting to keep you a slave.
unidentified
And I'm fighting to suck your dick.
bryan callen
Can you imagine?
joe rogan
Some hot, dirty white girl with freckles.
bryan callen
Apparently there was a lot of that, because what they would do is the Irish would come in, they were indentured servants, then you had the black slaves, and they'd dance.
There'd be like these speakeasies, and everybody would mingle.
It'd be late at night, black, beautiful black women, and the white dudes would be like, dude, these girls are hot.
And there was mixing and everything else, and there was all kinds of shit like that.
Remember, Slavery was being talked about as a great moral evil really back when this country was founded.
What really kind of one of the things they say that kept slavery going another hundred years was the cotton gin.
Was the fact that Eli Whitney invented a machine that made it fucking really, really easy to separate the seed from the cotton.
And as a result, this guy comes up with a great invention.
They were like, whoa, we got all this free labor down here.
I'm not freeing slaves.
This shit is white gold.
I can send it to Europe and there's an insatiable demand for my cotton.
Fuck that!
I'm not going to have my whole economies built on the fact that I got all this free labor and I'm making a fortune.
So, you know, a lot of historians kind of talk about how Eli Whitney invented a machine that was really efficient but might have been responsible for keeping an entire group of people in slavery.
joe rogan
That is so crazy to think about.
You know, before he came up with the cotton gin, most of the clothes were made out of hemp.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
They use hemp fiber for everything, and apparently it's way better than cotton.
bryan callen
It's stronger, for sure.
joe rogan
Way stronger.
Todd McCormick, do you remember my friend Todd McCormick?
He had this stalk of hemp in his house, and it was like from a hemp tree, and it's like it's from another planet.
It doesn't seem like it's a real thing.
bryan callen
So why?
joe rogan
It's really hard, but it's really light.
Like, it's light, like balsa wood, but it's hard like oak.
Like, it's weird.
bryan callen
It's cool.
joe rogan
And he was explaining to me, and he knows way more about weed than I do, but he was like, dude, it's an alien planet.
It's an alien plant, rather.
bryan callen
It's very hardy weed, right?
joe rogan
It's an alien plant.
It's like no other plant.
It has all the essential amino acids.
You get essential oils from it.
It has protein in it, a very high protein content.
Like, you can eat.
Hemp seeds are great for you.
They're really healthy.
And you can make clothing out of it.
You can make fuel out of it, hemp fuel.
Henry Ford made the first fenders on the first Model T out of hemp fibers.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
There's a video of him hitting them with a hammer, and the hammer bounces off these hemp fenders.
They're far more durable than steel.
bryan callen
That's crazy.
joe rogan
And it's an insane fiber, man.
It doesn't make any sense.
It literally is like no other fiber on the planet.
It's a really complex fiber, and it's illegal.
bryan callen
And it's illegal.
You can grow hemp.
You can grow hemp.
You just can't grow the female plant.
joe rogan
And the government is doing their best to make CBDs being regulated by the FDA. They're all trying to stop CBD. There's people that are trying to stop CBD. It doesn't even have a psychoactive effect on you.
bryan callen
Well, the guy who invented...
I don't know if he invented the dark web, but the Silk Road guy, Olbrecht?
joe rogan
Yeah, I've got to point this out.
This is really important, though, before I forget.
The CBD oil, folks.
I'm reading a lot of reports online of people testing CBD and it tests positive for THC. Greg Fitzsimmons talked about this.
He said that he tried CBD oil and it got him high.
I don't know what he used, which company he used, but the studies that I've read where people have actually got them tested, there is THC in some of them.
So you've got to be careful, especially if you have some UPS job or somewhere.
I don't know if UPS tests your piss.
bryan callen
Or an athletic competition.
joe rogan
Some place where they test your piss.
If you take CBD oil for pain and inflammation, you've got to really make sure you trust the sources.
Because I guess, apparently, it can have THC in it.
Didn't you point that out?
jamie vernon
I don't know if I did, but I've seen that same thing in the last, like, two weeks.
joe rogan
I think you're the one who told me about it first.
Yeah, it's not just...
Because we were talking about Greg.
Like, Greg gets high off CBD oil.
I'm like, maybe it's just like a super lightweight.
But I don't think so.
bryan callen
Maybe.
joe rogan
I think there's some weed in some of them.
bryan callen
Craig might just be super sensitive.
unidentified
He loves the weed.
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think if you just give him regular CBD oil, I bet he'd be fine.
It might not even just be the CBD oil.
jamie vernon
I've noticed some like head shops in states that it's not recreationally available.
They're selling it in the same form as like dabs and concentrates and you smoke the CBD the same way you would smoke that heavy concentrated shit.
unidentified
Whoa.
joe rogan
And that crazy like dab rig with a hot torch and So you smoke CBD oil that doesn't get you high in the dab rig.
Yeah, and I don't know if that's what it is.
bryan callen
Somebody gave me CBD oil to sleep better.
It didn't work.
joe rogan
Didn't?
bryan callen
I'll tell you what works.
Smoking weed.
joe rogan
You have a hard time sleeping?
bryan callen
Yeah.
I don't need more so much, but I always worry.
joe rogan
Yeah, that'll do it.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
I worry that I, you know, you just go, it's interesting.
Sometimes I just, I feel guilty about being so lucky.
I get into my really soft bed and I do what I love and I'm like, when is the other foot gonna drop here?
joe rogan
If you really stop and think about how lucky you are in comparison to the vast majority of human beings on the earth.
bryan callen
It's ridiculous.
unidentified
What?
bryan callen
I mean, you know.
joe rogan
I have zero tolerance for people that talk about how hard things are today.
Like, they're complicated today.
They're not hard.
It's complicated.
It's way more complicated.
Of course there are hard moments.
No one's denying your pain and your hard moments.
bryan callen
But if you get a cut on your hand, you're not going to get gangrene.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's just way easier.
bryan callen
There are little things.
You don't have to worry about the pox.
joe rogan
Yeah.
There's so much more today.
This is a fucking crazy time.
The thing about this time is, the good thing about it is, yeah, we're overpopulated.
Yeah, we're crazy.
Yeah, the system we're operating on doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but you could still go into the woods at any moment.
There's a place we can go right now.
We can go in the woods.
Like, you can go to Big Bear, and you just go for a hike.
All of a sudden, you're in the forest.
Like, oh, this shit's still real.
This is still here, too.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Life is crazy, and life's bizarre, but we haven't completely turned the whole world into a city.
bryan callen
That's true.
joe rogan
Like, guess what, bitch?
That's coming.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
If you look how goddamn big Los Angeles is, how much of it is covered in concrete and streets.
And then the streets go off everywhere like veins.
And oh, by the way, 200 years ago, no streets.
They weren't there.
bryan callen
But aren't wildernesses expanding in this country?
Is that wrong?
joe rogan
I do not think that wildernesses are expanding.
bryan callen
There's more grazing land and stuff.
I don't know.
I mean, we're definitely suffering from urban sprawl, but I was surprised to see how little, like the percentage of the continental United States that's actually inhabited, that actually has houses on it, was really small.
It surprised the shit out of me.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's pretty small.
It's crazy how concentrated it is, too, in these little areas.
But yeah, these people that live in these small towns all across the country, that is a big reason also why Trump won.
They just felt totally unrepresented by all the people that live on the sides.
bryan callen
I also think it's because they had, I think, 50% of Americans have, what, $500 in their bank account?
joe rogan
Something crazy.
I think it might be less than that.
I think it's $400.
bryan callen
Well, if it's $400, think about that.
That's why I get mad when people characterize—I don't like Trump.
But I never liked when people characterized all Trump supporters as racist, etc.
I thought it was unfair because I think— The majority of people want to live in some dignity.
And they had Obama, eight years of Obama, say what you will, but their lives didn't change for a lot of reasons.
I don't think Obama's to blame.
There's a lot of reasons.
Then along comes Hillary's speaking the same exact language.
So if you're going to blame people for saying, wait, under eight years, I still only have $400 in my pocket.
Here comes a woman who's speaking the same language.
Oh, and by the way, there's a lot of rumors about her being corrupt.
I have nothing to lose.
I'm going to try that other guy.
joe rogan
Did you see what Donna Brazile wrote about one of the reasons why she came out with her book?
It was after Seth Rich got murdered.
She called him a patriot.
bryan callen
Wow.
I didn't know Seth Rich got murdered.
Oh, that's right.
joe rogan
That was that guy who worked for the DNC that was a Bernie Sanders supporter.
The WikiLeaks has alluded to the fact that he leaked them information.
He got shot in front of his house.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
And it became this big conspiracy theory where people would mock you for saying it was a conspiracy, and then Hannity ran with it, and so it became clearly, for a lot of people, the Seth Rich conspiracy theory that it was nonsense.
Nobody knows what happened to that guy, though.
He was murdered.
He had his watch on.
He had his phone with him.
He had his wallet on him.
Nobody took anything from him.
They shot him at four o'clock in the morning.
Who knows what happened?
But when WikiLeaks starts saying that you gave them information and that there's consequences to you giving them information, one of two things is happening.
Either WikiLeaks has decided all of a sudden to start lying.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
And making things up about people.
Or two, they were misinformed and someone was pretending to be this guy and sending them information.
It's always possible if they didn't meet face to face.
Or three, they're telling you something you didn't know, that this guy who was just shot and murdered was leaking information about the DNC and now the DNC was corrupted by the Hillary Clinton group, which is what Donna Brazile is saying in her book.
And that this guy released that and showed how the primaries were rigged against Bernie Sanders and that Hillary...
Ari was sending me excerpts from it the other day.
He's like, dude, Donna Brazile was saying that Hillary was in control of the DNC before the primaries.
bryan callen
So is the implication that Hillary might have had something to do with his murder?
joe rogan
That's the implication.
bryan callen
The problem is that the information was already out.
joe rogan
Right, but maybe he had more, and maybe they were punishing him to stop other people from doing the same thing.
Maybe other people had more information.
I don't know if it's true, but there was another guy that disappeared recently.
It was a guy who had dirt on the Clintons.
Some guy vanished.
This is like really, really recent.
See if you can find that one.
Some guy, just type in Google, Clinton, Dirt.
And this is like from Newsweek.
So there's, people have vanished.
And I don't know how many of them have been murdered.
People suicide themselves.
I don't know how many of them actually suicide themselves.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
But it could, let's just say, one out of ten, just one out of ten was an actual murder.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
This guy, academic at the heart of Clinton Dirt campaign, vanishes.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
Leaving trail of questions.
This is really recently.
unidentified
See, they figured out when you kill people, it's way harder.
joe rogan
Maybe.
Could be.
When you kill people, it's like, God damn, how'd this body get here?
But when people just vanish...
bryan callen
Damn.
joe rogan
They just vanish.
unidentified
Poof.
bryan callen
That's crazy.
unidentified
They vanish.
bryan callen
They just disappeared.
unidentified
Poof.
bryan callen
Where's Eddie when I need him?
Where's Mr. Bravo when I need him?
joe rogan
He'd be going crazy.
He'd be going crazy about that one.
bryan callen
Yeah, but Eddie's conspiracies turn in on themselves because he'd be like, he's disappeared, but he's not really...
What if he's not really dead?
joe rogan
That could be that.
Eddie, he loves himself a conspiracy.
He gets so excited.
bryan callen
Yeah, I know.
joe rogan
It's like watching a guy who's super into sports.
Like a dude who's super into sports.
unidentified
Uh-huh.
All I'm saying is it's a little weird.
joe rogan
Well, you know what I tried to...
Someone was like, well, why does he enjoy conspiracies?
I said, well, first of all, he enjoys them.
Like, enjoy what you like.
But also, Eddie has always been really good at, like, shutting down people not believing in his ideas with jujitsu.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because Eddie has revolutionary jiu-jitsu.
His jiu-jitsu and his rubber guard setups and all the different things, the paths that he fixed a lot of paths in traditional jiu-jitsu.
He changed a lot of things and did some things his way.
And when he would describe it to me, I was like, oh, this is a guy who has an idea how to do things.
And when people are opposing, he's like, no, no, no, no, I'm going to shut that down and move over here.
bryan callen
That's interesting.
So his brain works that way.
joe rogan
Right.
So when someone comes at him with an idea, he has an idea and he's going to try to get that idea through.
And when you come at him with some weak attacks on that idea and just expect that he's going to relinquish his hold on the idea, he's like, no, no, no, bitch.
This don't make no sense.
No, you don't have any information.
It's going to take someone giving him real, honest to goodness, impossible to deny information that he's going to believe in any of the conspiracies that he believes in being false.
bryan callen
His feelings control his thinking.
joe rogan
That is true.
But there have been conspiracies that have successfully been executed, which makes this whole thing way more confusing.
bryan callen
Sure.
joe rogan
It's like, which one of these were real?
To say that all conspiracies are bullshit, you are a victim of, like, some reverse racism.
bryan callen
Oh, yeah.
No, no, I'm usually skeptical of conspiracies, especially government conspiracies, because government is notoriously so completely out of sync and not efficient enough, and certainly there are so many different competing interests within government, just within an administration.
Everybody's trying to undermine each other, and that's the history.
And it was set up that way.
And even if you talk about faking the moon landing, you'd have to have about a thousand, maybe two thousand people to keep a secret.
That's impossible.
joe rogan
That's not necessarily the case if you just had people thinking on a need-to-know basis with everything compartmentalized.
Like, this guy's responsible for making the O-rings.
This guy's responsible for making the...
unidentified
I don't know how it works.
bryan callen
I know nothing about it.
joe rogan
I don't know how it works either.
But I do know that you're talking about, if you were trying to fake the moon landing, one of the things that would be much easier is during the Nixon administration, they were getting used to faking things.
Watergate was going on.
bryan callen
But they all got found out, though, because somebody talks.
joe rogan
You're just starting to develop the kind of special effects abilities where you can sort of recreate space scenes, like 2001. That was the big conspiracy theorist dream, was that somehow or another there would be some irrefutable proof that Stanley Kubrick was the one who worked on the moon landing.
That was like, if I had found that, I'd be like coming in my pants like, yes!
bryan callen
But Eddie never acknowledges that the same impulse that drives him, which is really to find the truth and to be skeptical of people's claims and even evidence that's been written down.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
Human beings have always...
Always, for the most part, unless there's something wrong with you, wanted to be in the know.
I don't know anyone who doesn't want to know the truth.
I don't know anybody who likes being deceived.
And so that's why it's almost impossible to keep a secret long-term in government.
Because somebody always talks.
joe rogan
Here's another thing on the other side of it.
Here's one of the reasons why the whole conspiracy thing is so attractive to people.
Because there's a reward chain built into the human psyche of solving a problem that's presented in front of you that could potentially be dangerous.
It's a reward chain.
And this reward chain gets acted upon even if you're talking about nonsense.
Even if this is like some Area 51 UFO body fucking whatever it is.
Roswell, New Mexico, the guy who was there, the general, talked to my grandma.
He told me about the coffins.
Four-foot-tall coffins!
They're little alien babies!
They took them to the back of the hearse.
They had them embalmed, and my aunt saw it, and they killed her in the forest.
Stop!
Stop!
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
I can't.
bryan callen
But when you have an explanation, you don't feel as unsafe.
unidentified
Yes.
bryan callen
See, if I tell you that there are random things that happen, for example, the shooter in Las Vegas, he was 64 and there were no signs.
He was very controlling.
If you look at it, he's a bit of a sociopath.
He had this obsession with control.
But if I just tell you that sometimes people wig the fuck out and they just want to shoot a bunch of people, that's not appropriate.
joe rogan
He's also on anti-anxiety Medicare.
bryan callen
Sure.
I'm sure.
But there's also like, when you say that stuff, it's like, now what you're saying is I have no real way to protect myself.
Even if I carry a gun, take all my vitamins, wear my seatbelt, there's always some crazy shit I didn't think about.
It's called fate.
joe rogan
The people I've talked to that understand psych medicines, they've talked to some psychiatrists I've had on the podcast.
bryan callen
I listen to Kelly Brogan.
joe rogan
Kelly Brogan talked about it quite extensively.
One of the things that her and many other psychiatrists brought up is the disassociative properties of a lot of these psych medicines.
That someone might have a horrible idea in their head, but the repercussions of it are real.
Like acting on it feels real.
But as soon as you have some sort of heavy disassociative psych medicine, it's not even real.
Like you don't care anymore.
bryan callen
You're like watching yourself in a movie or something.
joe rogan
You're on something that dulls all the highs and the lows.
It puts you in this weird state where it's okay.
It's okay.
It's okay to just kill these people.
I don't know whether or not you could make the leap from being a person who could never kill somebody to being a person who doesn't have a problem with killing somebody.
I don't know if that's true.
Maybe that's a chasm too far to cross.
But I guarantee you, if you're the type of person that is having some horrible thoughts about being aggressive to people, and then someone puts you on something that makes you like, I don't give a fuck.
Who knows what the right chemical is, too, right?
If they give you the wrong one, maybe they'll switch you one way, or the right one, they'll turn you the other way, or maybe we should add some mobilifying to the mix.
Maybe we should throw some of this in there.
This is an anti-psychotic to help you all even out.
bryan callen
Do you know you can have a lesion on your brain the size of the head of a pin?
You can have a lesion, and if it's in the right, there's a specific area of the brain where it can be a tiny lesion that you can't see really barely with the naked eye, and it can render you a homicidal maniac.
joe rogan
That's my problem.
Fighting off the lesions.
bryan callen
I got lesions in my brain.
joe rogan
Is that true?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
What is it called?
unidentified
What's the lesion?
bryan callen
I don't know.
I could look it up for you, but where I heard it was in a lecture by Daniel Robinson, who is a professor at Oxford and Georgetown, and the smartest man on the planet.
joe rogan
Well, that's why you have to really be careful when you're punching people in the head, right?
bryan callen
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
That's why it causes...
Well, so the guy who...
joe rogan
Does that make sense?
bryan callen
Neuroscientist?
Remember the guy who captured the 13-year-old girl, not Elizabeth Smart, but the other one?
He had two children with her, kept her for 18 years, and she escaped finally?
joe rogan
Yes, that was the guy that was...
Where did that take place?
bryan callen
He and his wife.
It was somewhere in like, I think Seattle or something.
joe rogan
He had them in the basement, right?
bryan callen
He had them in the backyard in a shed, in a sealed off shed.
And then they lived in the backyard with the daughters until, I mean, literally she was 18. They would go out once in a while.
It was real Stockholm Syndrome shit.
joe rogan
Oh my God, that's so crazy.
bryan callen
Yeah, but he got her pregnant at 13 and it was just a terrible story.
joe rogan
This is what I was going to tell you about earlier.
Did you see the footage where they're selling slaves in Libya?
bryan callen
Is it Libya or is it Iraq?
joe rogan
It's Libya.
Maybe it's in Iraq, too.
But it was Libya.
And there was a...
I forget who the title...
It was USA Today that had an editorial that said, Thanks, Hillary Clinton.
Because Hillary Clinton, apparently, they're blaming her decisions on the reason why we went into Libya and dethroned Muammar Gaddafi.
Who knows?
Yeah, you would know maybe more than most.
But video of migrants sold in apparent slave auction in Libya provokes outrage worldwide.
It's disturbing, man.
When you watch it, they got guns to these dudes' heads, all these photos.
I retweeted it.
If you want to go to my Instagram, you can see some of the pictures of it.
But they have like, Libya is a failed state now.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
And it's goddamn terrifying.
bryan callen
In 2017. Look at that.
In 1970, my father just told a story at Thanksgiving.
And he was talking about how Dubai and Abu Dhabi have become these incredible countries.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
And when he was first there in 1970, 1971, I don't know what it was.
Somebody said, do you see that woman over there?
And she was a black woman.
She was from Africa somewhere.
And my father said, yes.
And he goes, that's a slave.
And that was in Dubai, I believe, back in the day.
I'm sorry to anybody from Dubai.
I know you guys have come a very long way, but slavery was the order of the day in a lot of countries.
I'm not just picking on you.
joe rogan
In a lot of countries.
bryan callen
In a lot of countries.
It was the order of the day.
I mean, the idea that slavery would no longer be a case.
The idea that this would be outrageous to the world in 1940 would be, certainly in 1910 or something, would have been like, what?
No, it'll always go on.
Slavery is the way of life.
joe rogan
I think, though, today, with the ability to film slave auctions on your cell phone and then stream that shit...
bryan callen
I also think the more you learn about people and how how similar we all are and how you know Sam Harris had a really interesting TED talk about this about the idea that you you have to be able to have a conversation about what is the most optimal way to live for a human being what is the most optimal is it is it true that women are at their best when having to wear a full burqa in 120 degree heat that's a good question And by the way,
are all opinions welcome at the table?
Are you interested, I'm quoting Sam here, but are you interested in the Taliban's point of view on physics?
No.
And does someone who does, for that matter, and he talks about himself, is his point of view on string theory, which he knows nothing about, as valid as somebody who studies string theory?
No.
But we, you know, there's a tendency to kind of go, well, you know, that's your culture.
And I'm not going to get involved in it, even though it might seem brutal by my standards.
You hear this a lot with the Aztecs and human sacrifice.
And it's very taboo to talk about how it was barbaric, because, you know, that was them.
unidentified
Fuck off.
joe rogan
Do you remember you and me and Steven Rinella had a conversation about that?
Rinella literally didn't believe me when I told him they sacrificed 80,000.
Is that the number?
What's the number when they sacrificed the...
bryan callen
The people who are not of the sun.
joe rogan
The pyramid of Teokhan.
Temple of Teokhan.
Is that how you say it?
Teokhan.
But apparently they sacrificed some fucking insane number of slaves.
So it's so crazy that if you tell a rational person like Steve Rinelli, it's like, what?
That can't be true.
Until you go and read about it and you go...
How horrible were people then?
They could sacrifice, I want to say it was 80,000 people.
bryan callen
The sheer numbers, I don't know.
I mean, that's a crazy number.
joe rogan
But it's like in a couple of days.
All the people that worked on the temple, apparently after it was over, they just sacrificed them.
bryan callen
Wow.
Just imagine the world.
One of the things they say is Cortez was able to conquer the Aztecs a lot more easily because the Aztecs had neighbors that fucking hated them.
Because the Aztecs would go in and basically if you weren't an Aztec, which means a person of the sun, you'd get sacrificed.
So their neighbors were like, are you Spanish guys?
500 guys?
Really?
We'll help you.
100%.
We hate them.
joe rogan
Have you been to Chichen Itza?
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
Dude, there's a fucking platform in Chichen Itza where the Mayans used to behead people.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
They have the sacrifice.
There's this thing.
It's like a demon.
It's lying on its back.
And they would sacrifice the people.
And the stomach area, where they sacrifice people, is kind of grooved out from all the bodies they've been slicing on it.
bryan callen
Damn!
Well, that's why...
joe rogan
Oh my god, I'm wrong.
It's way more.
As high as...
Estimates the number of persons sacrificed in Central Mexico in the 15th century was as high as 250,000 per year.
But go to the construction of Temple...
I don't know how to say it.
bryan callen
I know this is a very contentious number, by the way.
joe rogan
Of course it is.
bryan callen
A lot of people are like, bullshit, and there's a lot of historians that take...
joe rogan
Trying to publish my book, bro.
I'm jacking it up.
100,000.
I mean, if I was a historian, I was like, 40 million people died on the shores.
bryan callen
Although the whole male population was trained to be warriors, it was a, you know.
joe rogan
What is the, see, just Google 80,000 Aztecs sacrificed temple of, I don't know how to say the word, Teocon.
Teocon.
I forget how do you say it, but I believe what they did was they built this fucking spectacular structure and then killed everybody who worked on it.
They just killed the union.
bryan callen
Kind of like El Chapo when you'd build a tunnel for him.
He's like, can't know where it is.
Sorry.
joe rogan
Really?
bryan callen
Apparently they'd have a party for him.
Hey guys, thanks for working on the tunnel.
They had a little party.
Toast champagne and here's some lead poisoning as well.
joe rogan
Super, super hammered.
Bring them in hookers and then shoot them in the head while they're sleeping.
bryan callen
You can't have people know.
unidentified
Hmm.
bryan callen
They said that the Soviets would do that when you would build a tunnel.
Did you ever hear that story about how we figured out that...
joe rogan
Temple mayor?
What is this?
This is it?
Yeah.
How do you say that?
Make that larger, please.
Tino.
Tino Chitlan.
Hmm.
I don't think that's the same one.
80,000 came up with it.
That's the number of people?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay.
Maybe I've seen it...
Well, I think also one of the things you have to deal with when you're dealing with an English deciphering of really ancient Aztec and Mayan code is that it's phonetic.
So, like, there's sounds that they made that they're trying to replicate with English words, but they weren't really designed for English lettering.
You know?
I mean, they're designed...
They're hieroglyphs.
They have...
The way they wrote and spoke is very, very different than the way we do.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, they had a...
Like, some of the Mayan writing in particular...
What does it say there, Jamie?
I was looking for the word thousands in there.
Some of the...
Some of the Mayan languages were like images.
Terence McKenna described it this way.
He was like, you have an eyeball in a picture, and then you'd have a saw, and you'd have the bug, the ant, an ant, and then you'd have the flower, the rose.
And that's how you would say, I saw Aunt Rose.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
Because we just assume that everyone should...
What is writing?
Writing is some symbols that you make that correspond to certain sounds that we've all agreed in our own personal definitions that we have in societies.
We've all agreed that this sound means a certain thing.
And we argue the parameters of what that means.
And that's why people get super offended when someone says it like...
Words are violence.
You're fucking with the real violence!
You don't know what violence is!
bryan callen
You've never been punched in the face.
joe rogan
You haven't seen somebody get sold as a slave.
bryan callen
I always say it's so important for young people to understand the difference between things.
There's a real tendency to equate For example, you wrote a memo at Google and it made it an unsafe work environment for women.
joe rogan
And you're Hitler.
Now you're Hitler.
bryan callen
Now you're Hitler.
And by the way, crab boats, coal mines, and Navy SEALs, they have a pretty dangerous work environment as well.
So let's talk about the fucking difference because it gets very weird and dangerous and meaningless.
And in fact, in my opinion, when you equate Everything.
When you basically say, you know, you shouted at me, that's assault versus breaking my nose.
And we have lots of different examples of that.
It does a disservice to people that have suffered real...
You know, violence.
joe rogan
You know what I think is going on, man?
I could sum it up in one word.
Tribalism.
Mm-hmm.
There's a natural inclination that we have to form like-minded groups and defend our position to the death.
That's right.
And this is what people are doing.
And it's not that you're wrong and he's right or he's right or you're wrong.
It's that all of us are acting like people trying to protect our team.
That's right.
And it's an incorrect way of behaving.
So if you say that, like, words are violence, like, guess what?
No, they're not.
bryan callen
No, they're not.
joe rogan
Go fuck yourself, too.
Is that violent?
bryan callen
This is what I say.
I'm talking about this in my stand-up.
It's much easier to be against something.
It's really easy to be against it.
When you join a team, what happens is you don't have to do the thinking.
Let the leader do all the thinking.
You got the bullet points.
Now, what your job as a soldier is to put down the other team.
It's much more difficult.
And think about this for young people listening.
It's way harder to define what you're for.
Defining what you're actually for.
So if you're a revolutionary, you want to burn down the whole...
You know, the whole house.
What are you going to replace it with, man?
That's really important.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, that's what they did with Libya.
bryan callen
Revolutionaries forget that shit all the time.
joe rogan
That's exactly what we're talking about.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
Like, when, you know, they came, they saw, he died.
unidentified
Ha, ha, ha.
bryan callen
Right.
You got rid of the bad guy?
unidentified
Cool.
bryan callen
Now what?
joe rogan
Now what?
bryan callen
What are you replacing it with?
joe rogan
Guess what?
Welcome to the power vacuum.
You hope you're going to be dead before this fucking becomes a disaster in a failed state?
Well, you're not.
You're alive.
bryan callen
That's my problem when people, and we have a lot of people in our government, that look at a problem and go, oh, you're It's ISIS. What we need to do is get authorization to kill more of them in other places.
So what you're talking about is groups that identify as ISIS and that's going to solve the problem.
My problem with that typically is that it goes back to that one of my favorite sayings.
It's not what you think.
What you think is way less important than how you think.
Because a lot of times if you pay attention, you're thinking exactly the way your enemy's thinking.
I'm not so sure that that's how you do it.
I'm not so sure that bombing and shooting your way out of that problem is the way to go.
It might be in some cases.
I think you need SEAL Team 6, etc.
For certain shitheads.
joe rogan
We need them as a line of defense.
Everyone has to know that they're real.
That's one of the most important things about the elite forces of the government or of our military, is that people need to know they're real.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
You need to know that's real.
Because there's a hundred thousand, whatever the fuck there are, people right now that are just ready to go.
All you have to do is press a button, launch them, and you need to know that they're there.
bryan callen
Thank God for Tim Kennedy, etc.
joe rogan
Exactly.
bryan callen
Because remember this.
You need walls.
You need...
Strong walls and men to guard those walls.
joe rogan
And the people that don't, you haven't seen enough bad people.
bryan callen
That's right.
You don't, because the Mongols are out there.
joe rogan
They're out there.
Look at Libya.
They're out there.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
And these people, by the way, that are in the military, they're the only ones that are experiencing it.
You're back here, you're passing judgment on, they're saying, hey, there's zombies.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
Like, hey, the fucking world's gone crazy.
Hey, they're selling slaves in the streets.
Like, we need to all know that there are people that are in some really horrible parts of the world right now that can give you valuable information.
Doesn't mean we should kill those people.
Doesn't mean we should fucking nation build.
But we need to be aware of the landscape.
bryan callen
And keep this in mind, though, too.
That would be hard strength.
You need men like, you know, Tim Kennedy, etc., those guys who are our protectors, who we can push a button and go, hey, those fucking guys want it.
And there are people out there that want to kill us, for sure.
But I always think that it's also important to remember that those guys are doing that to protect the softer strengths in our community.
The people that are creative, the people that are inventing.
You can't have a doctor working on a cure for cancer and have the Mongols come over and smash all his fucking beakers.
joe rogan
Exactly.
Exactly.
bryan callen
That's why you need those.
So you need both.
joe rogan
But the problem is you do need both.
And the people on one side don't want to recognize the people on the other side because they wish they didn't have to exist.
bryan callen
Exactly.
joe rogan
But they do have to exist.
bryan callen
Of course they do.
joe rogan
There's a balance to this fucking thing, you know?
And here's the thing.
People in Libya, if Kevin Spacey had a TV show in Libya where he fucked all the grips right in the mouth before every episode, they would go, that's what he does.
He's the star.
bryan callen
He's the fucking star.
joe rogan
You're the star?
Who's the star?
unidentified
Are you the star?
bryan callen
Exactly.
joe rogan
You're the star.
unidentified
Kevin Spacey is the star.
joe rogan
You're the fucking star.
There's bombs going off the streets.
bryan callen
Open your mouth!
unidentified
Open your mouth!
joe rogan
There's fucking IEDs at every fucking dead dog on the side of the road.
Kick him over, you lose your leg.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, he fucked your mouth.
What's the problem?
He fucked your mouth!
He's Kevin Spacey!
unidentified
He's the guy, he's the president, he fucked your mouth.
joe rogan
Come on, you want to work or not starve?
What you want to do?
What you want to do?
bryan callen
You want to live?
joe rogan
That is an offensive accent.
It's unreasonable.
I don't even know why you do it because it doesn't sound like anyone that's ever lived.
It's so offensive.
bryan callen
It's not a bad accent.
joe rogan
It's exactly what someone who doesn't know how to speak English would sound like.
I would wish that I could speak Arabic so I could realize how fucking shitty my bad Arabic would be if I learned Arabic for a couple years and tried to talk to those people.
bryan callen
There's a lot of rolling of the R's.
unidentified
Make fun of me.
joe rogan
Go ahead.
I give you full permission to make fun of an American pretending to be or trying to speak Arabic accent.
bryan callen
Arabic is a very difficult language to learn.
unidentified
Too hard for me, my friend.
bryan callen
Too hard.
unidentified
My friend.
bryan callen
It's so hard.
It's such a rich language compared to like French.
joe rogan
He would give Kevin Spacey a raise if he was in Libya.
If he had a show in Libya, Netflix Libya would give him a raise.
I would go, this is method act.
unidentified
This is how president would do.
joe rogan
Fuck the mouth of everyone he can fuck.
unidentified
This is what president would do.
I like how you are behaving as a president all the time.
joe rogan
Go Frank Underwood.
unidentified
Here's a fucking raise!
joe rogan
Just pull out a machine gun.
unidentified
Da-da-da!
joe rogan
Shoot through the fucking ceiling.
Dust in the room.
Kiss him on the mouth and leave.
bryan callen
It's not a bad fucking...
That's a good...
You play a good Arab despot, dude.
Who's a pervert.
joe rogan
Listen, this is what you do.
You fuck everyone's mouth.
Do you ever hear about how the president of the longtime dictator of Yemen got power?
bryan callen
He was a major in the army.
joe rogan
I'm scared.
bryan callen
He just showed up.
He was there.
He was just going to be one of the majors, and the president was having a cabinet meeting.
And apparently, you can look this up, Jimmy, apparently he basically put a briefcase down or a suitcase down and just pulled out two guns and went, well, see you later.
unidentified
Gush, gush, gush, gush, gush.
bryan callen
And killed the entire, decapitated the government.
He goes, I'm in charge now.
Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
joe rogan
What year was that?
bryan callen
That's in the 70s.
unidentified
Jesus Christ!
bryan callen
Hey guys, you ever see what a pistol grip Uzi looks like?
See you later.
Yeah.
And then he ruled the nation with what's called an iron fist for about 30 years.
joe rogan
I'm sure you watch Narcos, right?
bryan callen
I certainly have.
joe rogan
How about that fucking show?
How about Pablo Escobar?
bryan callen
Amazing.
joe rogan
You know what's crazy?
Is apparently Colombia's bounced back tremendously.
And Colombia's like a really cool place to visit now.
bryan callen
I've heard.
joe rogan
That's what I keep hearing.
bryan callen
I have friends who've been there.
I want to go badly.
They say the most beautiful people.
Certainly the most beautiful women.
On the planet.
They're famed.
joe rogan
It's just amazing that they bounced back so quickly from being under control of a drug lord.
The Pablo Escobar story is so goddamn crazy.
bryan callen
It is crazy.
joe rogan
Ladies and gentlemen, you do not live forever.
Listen to me.
Make Coke legal.
It'll solve 80% of our problems.
Just make Coke legal.
bryan callen
I agree.
joe rogan
Just make Coke legal.
bryan callen
I agree.
joe rogan
Are we really pretending that whiskey is any better than Coke?
Are we really pretending that?
I don't know coke.
I don't do coke.
bryan callen
I would say coke is even better because it's devastating quickly.
So you do a lot of coke.
You can drink for 40 years and before you realize you're like, holy fuck, I don't have a house or anything else.
You fucking do blow.
Do blow every day for three years and come talk to me and see how your life works out.
joe rogan
I think that less people would be inclined to do it.
If you made it legal and then let everybody see the consequences of its use in a realistic way.
I think part of the problem with things being illegal is that people can't choose for themselves.
I agree.
And if people can't choose for themselves, it's forbidden.
And forbidden things...
unidentified
Just like that black deck back during the Revolutionary War.
bryan callen
Become more tasty!
They become more tasty!
joe rogan
The darker the berry, the sweeter the juice.
I mean, that's all forbidden stuff.
But you can't...
Human beings should not be able to tell...
This is the bottom line.
Human beings should not be able to tell other human beings what they can or can't do with their own bodies where it doesn't make sense.
And it doesn't make sense if you have some things that are legal, like cigarettes, and some things that are legal, like whiskey.
I don't have a problem with cigarettes being legal, and I don't have a problem with whiskey being legal.
You should be able to do whatever you want.
But I think it should be with all of the things.
Like, how come these things...
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Why can't...
You're telling me that whiskey's legal, but mushrooms aren't.
What year is this?
What are we doing?
Are we pretending?
Are we pretending there's no science?
Are we in witchcraft days or no?
Let me know when the witchcraft days are over.
Because I would say witchcraft should be over now.
So if it's over now, we have to look at science, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, you can't let me buy oxytocin or oxycontin from the fucking pharmacy.
You can't let me buy that.
bryan callen
The doses are controlled.
joe rogan
Because I stubbed my fucking toe.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
What do you think would happen if we made cocaine legal?
unidentified
Nothing!
bryan callen
Would consumption go up?
joe rogan
Yes, for a little bit.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
A lot of girls would show their inner hoe.
They'd let it out.
A lot of dudes would make some important business deals that they'll never fucking complete.
bryan callen
That's that joke.
Who was that joke who was like, when you do cocaine, you want to start a business together?
joe rogan
Mike Young had that joke.
bryan callen
It's a great joke.
joe rogan
It's so true.
It's so true.
bryan callen
Let's open a donut shop.
What the fuck are we doing, dude?
joe rogan
People always want to talk to you about their passion.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Talk about your passion.
It's a weird drug to be around.
bryan callen
I was in Jamaica, and I'm not a big drug guy, but I did a bag of coke.
joe rogan
A whole bag?
bryan callen
A guy sold it to me.
I was smoking weed, and this guy I was with, we were hanging, he goes, you ever do blow?
I was like, I'm not a big drug guy.
I don't even smoke weed much.
And he goes, try this.
And I did one line of cocaine, Jamaican cocaine, and I was like, this must have fallen off a boat because this shit's got a yellow thing to it.
And I was like, first of all, I'm the coolest motherfucker on the planet.
Second of all, We're going to play ping pong for a good three hours.
Third of all, then I'm going to go to my fucking hotel room, and I'm going to wake my girlfriend up and tell her that I'm a genius, and then, wait for it, I'm going to write for three, four hours, keep doing cocaine, and I'm going to change my career because I'm going to write a three-hour bit on how God is a Rastafarian.
How funny is that?
And I wrote, stand up, God is a Rastafarian.
I kept waking my girlfriend up and going, I'm writing the funniest shit.
You're not going to believe this.
And she was like, I can't believe this.
And I looked at it, then I passed out.
Before my heart could give out and I looked at the shit I wrote about eight hours later and it was it was basically God's a Rasta and he speaks like a Jamaican and that was the joke and I thought it was brilliant when I was fucking doing the blow.
joe rogan
Well in the right state of mind if you captured that idea like if you gave that bit to Dave Chappelle.
bryan callen
Sure.
joe rogan
Maybe he could make something out of it.
bryan callen
Me, not Brian Callen when he's high on cocaine in Jamaica.
joe rogan
It's like you needed to figure out what the fuck you were trying to say.
Like, I've written things down on marijuana, and I'll figure it out when I'm sober.
But then you try to read it when you're sober, and you're like, what the fuck was my point?
What is the point here?
bryan callen
Yeah.
But they did studies on people on drugs, I think cocaine, and had them play music musicians and stuff.
And they were like, I thought I was amazing.
And then they listened to what they're playing.
They're like, oh, what the fuck?
Well, the argument was made when what killed the music after 1968 was, you know, the Monterey music, I mean, rock and roll festival with Hendrix and the Mamas and Papas.
So what gave birth to that renaissance was marijuana and psychedelics.
That enhanced the music.
joe rogan
Oh, for sure.
bryan callen
When cocaine and heroin came in, it fucking killed it.
Yeah, it killed it.
joe rogan
People died.
Yes.
bryan callen
Literally.
joe rogan
I'm a boogeyman.
bryan callen
That's what I am.
Some of that shit's good.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff, but it's the idea behind that music.
Like, how about Showgirls?
Showgirls, the movie, would not exist if it wasn't for cocaine.
That movie is a goddamn cocaine movie.
That movie's a movie where you could see the blood coming out of their nose while they were watching the edits.
Like, yes!
Yes!
unidentified
No!
You fucking keep that seat in!
You make it longer!
More flopping in the pool!
bryan callen
Ah, it's a terrible movie.
joe rogan
That fucking sex scene between the girl from Saved by the Bell.
What is her name?
Elizabeth something or other.
Berkley.
bryan callen
Berkley.
Elizabeth Berkley.
joe rogan
And who was the dude?
Kyle McLaughlin-Clank?
That guy?
bryan callen
Yeah, she was all naked.
joe rogan
She's very beautiful.
But there's a scene when they're in the pool where they're making love, Brian Callen.
And if a girl was doing that, if you were having sex with a girl and she started doing that, you would immediately, and I know you, you're a pervert, you would still immediately call a doctor.
You, as perverted as you are, as much as you love ladies, as much as you would be so excited to be that Kyle McLaughlin guy with Elizabeth Berkley and she's wrapped around and she's flopping around in the pool, you would call the police.
You'd call the police.
This is only part of it.
So this is okay.
I can handle this.
This bitch is just getting crazy.
Woo!
The titties are flopping.
First of all, if you're calm, how do you not shoot all over your own face?
Here's the problem.
Here's the problem.
She starts flailing.
She's like throwing herself back.
And he's hanging on.
And by the way, he blew out both his rotator cuffs in the scene.
bryan callen
For real?
joe rogan
He had to get both of his shoulders completely reconstructed.
bryan callen
I only hope you're telling the truth.
unidentified
Fuck, that's fine.
joe rogan
He tore his labrum.
He tore the bicep tendon from the bone.
bryan callen
God damn it.
joe rogan
She's flopping around like she's dying.
I would go, you gotta let me know if you're gonna do that.
You can't just pretend to be dying.
Because if you just die, I feel like, girl's just lit.
She's crazy.
bryan callen
And I let you die.
You might break my dick, too.
joe rogan
But what if I let her die?
What if you let her die?
You're like, you asshole.
She was having a seizure.
You came inside of her?
She was having a seizure and you came inside of her?
Dude, what the fuck?
unidentified
I thought she was just being freaky.
joe rogan
You didn't see.
We have a video of it.
You didn't see there was something wrong with her?
You fucking selfish asshole.
All you cared about was coming.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
She was dying, man!
She's flopping around!
She can't breathe!
She doesn't see anymore!
She's dying!
bryan callen
Take it easy!
unidentified
How can you...
joe rogan
You're raping her here!
You're holding onto her!
You're keeping her inside of you!
If you just let her go!
There's no way!
She's trying to get away!
How long does this go on for?
It's just a gif of it.
unidentified
It's just on repeat.
joe rogan
She's trying to get away.
She's trying to get away.
bryan callen
Congratulations on all that.
joe rogan
There's nothing funny about rape, ladies and gentlemen, but this isn't rape, and that's why I made a joke.
bryan callen
I'm holding my...
It's not a rape joke.
I'm in a monk scream right now.
joe rogan
It's a joke about something you absolutely know is definitely not rape, and I'm being ridiculous.
Joke.
bryan callen
Yeah, everybody.
It's funny how you have to do that nowadays.
joe rogan
Gotta do that.
bryan callen
In today's climate.
joe rogan
I know you're ready.
I know you're ready to get mad at me.
Don't get mad at me.
Everybody, we need to stop doing this.
We need to figure out what's okay.
bryan callen
Stop being so literal.
Stop being so literal.
joe rogan
We need to start realizing this.
If we had real problems in the world, and the Kevin Spacey thing was a bad example.
I was just trying to be funny about the Libyan.
Don't let Kevin Spacey grab your dick.
I get it.
I get it.
I'm not saying that.
That's not what I'm saying.
bryan callen
Not what you're saying.
joe rogan
What I'm saying is we just need to be super cognizant of the fact that there is a real highly likelihood that we have achieved the highest level of civilization the world has ever known.
It's right now.
And we need to be aware of that.
bryan callen
We've made progress in other words.
joe rogan
And any massive and any seemingly important thing that you want to go off on, you're taking energy away from recognizing the fact that we need to protect the crucial elements of this amazing thing that we have right now.
And one of the things that we have to do is we've got to avoid this weird tribalism that I keep talking about.
Tribal thinking.
Because it's not just sexual.
It's political.
It's socio-economic.
It's like, I'm just a fucking blue-collar guy.
No, you're a fucking person!
We're all just people.
You're in a trap.
bryan callen
Human beings, we're genetically predisposed to be tribal.
Us versus them.
Us versus them.
joe rogan
We've got to get past that.
If we're a tribe, we should be tribe planet Earth.
There's famous Ronald Reagan speech.
Remember that Ronald Reagan speech?
He gave a speech, I want to say it's in front of Congress, but he gave a speech where he was talking about how quickly we would set aside our differences if we were attacked by an alien force from another world.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
And all of us would realize, I mean, this heat of the Cold War.
I mean, this is like very scary times.
Do you remember growing up?
We're the same age.
bryan callen
Yes, very much so.
joe rogan
Worried about nuclear war.
bryan callen
The Soviets were a real threat.
Nuclear annihilation was actually something we all thought about every day.
joe rogan
Yes.
And the further we're away from that, the more we forgot.
But if you just pay attention to Libya, just pay attention to Afghanistan, pay attention to Iraq, pay attention to all sorts of parts of the world, North Korea, things are not fucking stable at all.
We're assuming that things are going to stay stable because they're stable right here.
But we're all on the same goddamn planet.
And that's a real problem.
It's a real problem.
And I think we're better at figuring this out than we have ever been before.
But there's a lot of hiccups and bumps along the way.
But one of the things that's going to eliminate a good percentage of them is if we can isolate...
Tribalism and see it when it's happening and call it for what it is and avoid it.
bryan callen
It's very tough now though and I'll tell you why because there used to be one of the great people always talk about how religion was responsible for so much violence but they always forget religion was also responsible for a great deal of unification so there was a national narrative in this country We were a Christian nation for a long time in this country, and there was a national narrative.
There were just certain things that people collectively agreed upon, and usually it started in the church, or at least it had its values in the church.
I would argue that even our constitution has been greatly influenced by the Judeo-Christian ethic.
All men are created equal, for example, is a Christian idea.
There's no way to prove it biologically or mathematically, but it's a nice starting point.
It's literally what our justice system is predicated on.
All men are created equal.
Even though LeBron James and I have totally different genomes and he's an avatar and we're not equal, if you kill me, you kill LeBron, you do the same amount of time in jail, theoretically.
That would be the idea behind our thing.
joe rogan
He should be worth more.
bryan callen
He should be worth a little bit more than that.
I would agree.
I would agree.
And what's really interesting is how different we are, how we all strive not to be equal, right?
I want to be better than everybody else, but we believe in it.
It's a really nice starting point.
joe rogan
You know something I read that's really important, and I always bring it up to people, that...
Free will, or the ability to do whatever you want, a freedom of expression, a freedom of pursuits, breeds inequality.
Because if you give people true, total freedom, some people are going to try harder than others.
Some people are going to be obsessed.
bryan callen
Inequality is not a bad thing.
joe rogan
Some people want to be Tyler Perry and have a fucking island.
bryan callen
Yeah, but remember, there's a fundamental difference, right?
Well, what's the difference between being an American and a communist?
An American believes in equality of opportunity.
I'm not saying we have that, but that would be the goal.
Then there's equality of outcome.
The only way to have equality of outcome is to keep down the people that work harder, that are smarter and more talented.
You've got to make everybody equal.
That's, to me, a fundamental evil.
That's my problem with Marxism.
The only way to do that is with force.
joe rogan
The problem is it's never worked.
bryan callen
No!
joe rogan
It's never worked and it almost always leads to mass murder.
Right.
bryan callen
Exactly.
joe rogan
But nobody wants to think that because the idea behind it is beautiful.
We don't need to compete.
We should just share money and share wealth.
bryan callen
Look up Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Hitler, Lenin, and Stalin.
joe rogan
Those are communist dictatorships.
bryan callen
Hitler was more of a fascist.
joe rogan
Yeah, and people also don't realize that the Nazis were the national socialists.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
It's a real problem with the idea in execution.
But the idea in the most romantic view possible is that we don't need to compete with each other, we don't need to be greedy, and that we can all share resources and wealth and we all get along and have income equality.
But I think it's important to recognize the thought behind the best version of that.
Right?
The thought behind the best version of that is someone that just really wants to be an amazing person.
unidentified
Yeah.
Right?
joe rogan
And they really want other people to be amazing people as well.
They want everybody to be fine.
They strive for everybody to get along.
So let's just, like, combine our wealth.
We don't have to get rich.
Let's just, like, provide for the poor.
It's super important.
Let's, like, give healthcare to everybody before anything.
Hey, man, we don't need the military.
Let's just relax.
Okay, you're gonna get invaded.
It's a matter of time before the Russians show up at the borders, and they're going to fuck your mouth.
bryan callen
Yes.
But on that, let me piggyback on that.
joe rogan
They've been doing that forever.
bryan callen
Remember that the idea, Adam Smith's idea, and the idea behind making money was also that when you are rich and when you are an aristocrat, you have a responsibility to give back to your community.
That was very much ingrained in the British sensibility and even in the American aristocracy like the Kennedys in this country.
joe rogan
I'll go one better.
bryan callen
And you have a responsibility, correct.
joe rogan
Bill Gates.
One of the boys Bill Gates has engendered himself with a lot of us is that he does an amazing amount of charity.
bryan callen
Amazing amount.
joe rogan
He's amazing.
bryan callen
Very creative with it, too.
joe rogan
And, by the way, still lives like a fucking gangster.
It's not even like it's putting a dent in his lifestyle.
I mean, he's helping so many people out with the Bill Gates Foundation.
bryan callen
Warren Buffett does the same thing.
Warren Buffett gave his kids, now it's up to $7 billion.
He was like, go make the world a better place.
joe rogan
Amazing.
bryan callen
And he's got all kinds of charities.
joe rogan
And he's, by all accounts, a super sweet guy.
bryan callen
Yes.
They're really humble.
But back to what you were talking about, about how we're breaking into tribes.
I think that we have lost any kind of national narrative.
And what I mean by that is that people don't even trust their own institutions.
With the crumbling of any kind of religious institution, it seems that now people are looking for...
They don't trust main sources of information.
So they don't trust...
Most of the mainstream media has earned their shitty reputation, because now it's about clickbait.
Now it's about kind of creating something.
You want to be first, not true.
Being true is not as important as being the first one with the story and blah, blah, blah.
I think that there certainly are agendas with liberal media, conservative media, they both have their own agendas.
joe rogan
The sneaky shit that people do.
bryan callen
Exactly.
So what happens is people, I think media's favorability is in the single fucking digits or something, like among most Americans.
joe rogan
Let me give you an example how this works sometimes.
Somebody wrote a good article about the debate that Eddie Bravo and I had about the world being flat, but the title of the article was, Joe Rogan argues with someone about the world being flat.
So it seems like I was saying that the world is flat.
So you immediately click it, but right away, the first sentence is, God bless Joe Rogan.
And then he was in a conversation with his friend who was arguing about the possibility.
But like, okay, I see what you did.
He hooked you.
You got it.
You did it.
You did the right thing.
It's okay.
But because of that, even though it's very insignificant, a bunch of people have said to me, bro, you used to believe the fucking earth was flat.
I saw that.
I was like...
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
I bet you didn't.
I bet you didn't see that.
bryan callen
CNN and Huffington Post, both news.
unidentified
They do that.
joe rogan
They all do that.
bryan callen
I can't stand either one of those.
unidentified
It's sneaky.
bryan callen
I think CNN and Huffington Post are terrible, but both of them do that.
They'll hit you with this, like, Donald Trump just said one word to change the entire presidency.
unidentified
Yes, you fuck!
bryan callen
Let me see what the fuck!
joe rogan
You fuck!
Dude, Keith Oberman is signed off.
He's one of my favorite things to watch.
bryan callen
I like him.
joe rogan
He's a spicy character.
bryan callen
Super liberal, but I like him anyway.
joe rogan
Super liberal, but I think you have to have that.
Look, I'm a...
Who I am right now, I'm an open-minded, friendly person that allows for all ideas.
Keith Olbermann is as far left as you're gonna get and I like the fact that he was out there.
I think having a wacky dude out there standing in front of a cable access show background with red on one side and blue on the other and he's got his notes in front of him and he's wearing a tie and he delivers these super eloquent Yeah.
bryan callen
Dissertations.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But he's decided he's gonna step away.
And he said he's retiring from politics because he thinks that Donald Trump's done.
unidentified
He does?
joe rogan
Yeah, he thinks Donald Trump, he lists a series of things.
Keith Olbermann says he's retiring from political commentary.
Yeah, and he lists a series of things.
bryan callen
Oh, you know, good for them.
joe rogan
He's a fucking formidable opponent.
bryan callen
He knows his shit.
I would not want to debate that guy.
He knows his shit.
joe rogan
He did one thing, though, that was pretty fucking stupid.
You know with a Tommy Lauren girl, she's like a conservative hot chick, hot white girl with blonde hair.
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
She put a flag on, like she was like holding up a flag in a photo, and he wrote something about not, you shouldn't use the flag that way.
And then Donald Trump Jr. tweeted a photo of the two of them together with her with the flag and keep Oberlin wrapped in a flag.
unidentified
Oh boy.
joe rogan
Said you know something about him being stupid some some funny thing That's also catty to say that you know stop being catty fucking bullshit I understand you don't like her because she's a hot girl That's a conservative and she says ridiculous shit sometimes and she does but like you gotta save your attacks You can't throw rocks at every target you can't stop for every dog that barks on the way home or you never get home and This is why George Washington talked about the importance of civility.
bryan callen
It's so important.
You need civility.
If you start attacking each other, if I start, you know, I heard a rumor that Donald Trump in meetings when he was negotiating somebody, he'd go, oh, Jesus, your breath.
Holy fuck, you get the worst breath.
And he'd just get you on your heels.
joe rogan
You'd be like, what?
Does he do that?
bryan callen
Yeah, apparently that was some of the tactics.
He would just insult you and get you off your pins.
unidentified
Makes sense.
bryan callen
Now you're emotional and you're insecure about your breath.
Now you can't talk as much.
You know, there are little techniques like that.
joe rogan
I think Donald Trump would be super fun if he was like your uncle that you were going to take your girlfriend to when you first started dating.
Like, say if you dated a girl and it's like three months in and you're in love and you're parked outside your uncle's house.
You're like, listen, we're going to spark this joint and we're going to go meet my fucking crazy uncle.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's a beautiful guy.
He's flawed, but he's crazy.
And don't look at his hair.
And we're just going to smoke this weed.
And then like...
And when he talks about himself, just see him fascinated.
And you pass the joint.
bryan callen
You guys are lucky I'm here.
joe rogan
And you go in there so high that you're barely alive.
So you got like 180 beats per minute.
Your heart's going, what are we doing?
bryan callen
Dude, I golfed with his caddy.
Obama's caddy.
George W's caddy.
unidentified
Okay.
bryan callen
And Cameron.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
I didn't know you golfed three times.
bryan callen
Yes, thank you very much.
joe rogan
All three times those guys?
bryan callen
No, same guy.
Same guy.
Same guy who caddied for all the presidents.
Number one, he said this.
joe rogan
You made it sound like there's three trips.
bryan callen
No, no, no.
No, I wish.
No, no, no.
And he said, he said, best golfer in the group, hands down by far, Donald Trump.
Yeah.
He doesn't like Trump, but basically said, he's very nice, very funny, and cracked him up.
He looked at me and goes, how do you think I'm doing?
And Cameron was like, I think you've got a lot on your plate.
And then apparently he drove by, they were at his club in Key Largo or whatever, Mar-a-Lago, and these people were there, and he just walked, as they were driving by in the cart, he goes, do you guys have any idea how lucky you are?
You're in the best club in the world!
And they just kept driving.
He's a very entertaining dude.
joe rogan
I'm a little bummed out at myself that I didn't do Celebrity Apprentice.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, because Celebrity Apprentice was available when we were doing the second run of Fear Factor.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
And they asked me to do it.
And this is when we were on NBC. I was like, God, I want to move my family to New York for a few months.
And, you know...
Mrs. Rogan was down for it, but I was like, I don't know if that's a smart move.
It seems like a lot of work for something that's not really my thing.
I don't really want to do it, but I kind of wish I did it now.
bryan callen
So you get to know Trump?
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
I don't know how well you get to know him, though.
joe rogan
I get to know him if you let me hang on to him.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just let me be close to smell you.
bryan callen
I'm sure he'd be a blast.
I'm sure he'd be a lot of fun because he's one of those guys.
joe rogan
Maybe I could talk to him.
Maybe we could have fixed things.
Maybe we could have told him, dude, just take it down a notch.
It would be okay.
bryan callen
He's not interested.
The problem with him is that he's not interested in what he doesn't know.
That's how I feel.
Maybe.
I don't know him.
joe rogan
I feel like we could have a sit-in with Homeboy.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just him.
bryan callen
God, if you get him on this podcast, I have to come in.
joe rogan
Just wear him out.
Relax.
Relax.
bryan callen
He never drinks, doesn't smoke.
unidentified
Of course.
joe rogan
That's the problem.
It's part of the problem.
You need a separation from your normal states of consciousness, otherwise you're acting on momentum your entire life.
So you live like a child.
bryan callen
They did a psychological profile that I thought was interesting on him, which was that he's always been on the outside.
So his dad wasn't allowed to be part of the developers in New York.
He had to go elsewhere.
And he was always kind of like kept out.
And he is now in the media.
So his way of...
And I think Roy Cohn...
The infamous lawyer was his mentor and said, attack.
Always attack.
Meet any threat with an attack.
joe rogan
Listen, the reason why he's president is because Obama mocked him at the press corps conference.
Remember that?
Remember that press corps dinner meeting thing?
And Obama mocked him and said, I'm one thing that you're never going to be, and that's the president.
And he's like, oh, for real?
Yeah.
I'm fucking older than you.
unidentified
Good luck.
joe rogan
I'm ridiculous.
Look at my hair.
And I'm still going to be the president.
How about you go fuck yourself?
How about you don't know what you're dealing with here?
How about...
bryan callen
He was amazing.
He was so amazing in the debates.
He was so entertaining.
joe rogan
He was funny.
bryan callen
And even George...
Jeff Bush said, you can't insult your way to the White House, my friend.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, you can.
Yeah, you can.
You definitely can when you're fighting.
Look, it's like, what's really ironic is one of the things that's come out.
unidentified
Joe Rubin trying to pretend he knows things about politics.
joe rogan
I don't.
But what I do know about is talking shit.
I'm good at talking shit.
And I understand the strategies behind talking shit.
And one of the strategies behind talking shit was that Hillary felt very confident that if she could get Donald into a position of being the primary candidate against her, she would have an easy path to the White House.
Because she felt like Donald was so ridiculous that the other candidates, by even being associated with him in the same party, there would be revolt.
It would be chaos.
And if he won, he'd be an easy target.
And there's all this written banter back and forth where she was trying to connect him with the most ridiculous people.
Like, of course, there was just all this strategy with Ted Cruz where they had this idea of how they would make them all look marginalized.
Easy path to the White House.
And he just threw a monkey wrench, ka-clang, right into that theory.
It's like, stupid, I'm the worst person for you to argue.
I'm going to say you should be in jail.
Lock her up.
Lock her up.
bryan callen
And she was like, what?
And I'll make shit up too.
I'll make up my own facts if I have to.
I'll do whatever I want.
joe rogan
And I'll get caught on tape talking about how girls just let you grab them in the pussy.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just a few weeks out.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
No problem.
Locker room talk.
bryan callen
It was locker room talk.
joe rogan
Not a problem.
Let's talk about uranium.
bryan callen
Dude, I thought he was done.
When I heard that, I thought, oh, he's definitely done.
unidentified
Nope.
bryan callen
President.
By the way, what's really shocking, what was it?
44% of the white women voted for him?
joe rogan
Because they want that dick.
bryan callen
Well, they weren't that offended by it, I guess.
Right?
joe rogan
There's a lot of women right now that just shut off this podcast.
You fucking asshole.
Right when I was starting to think you weren't an asshole.
It's just comedy.
I don't really think that 44%.
I think people didn't like Hillary.
They didn't trust her.
I think if you looked at what it is in terms of good versus evil, it's known evil versus unknown result.
bryan callen
I think it's known evil or known corruption versus a sideshow.
Like sort of a guy who's going to be really entertaining for the next four years but probably won't bring the republic down.
joe rogan
But what if he decides to really look out for the American people?
What if he decides to make America great again?
What if he decides to bring back engineering and bring back production of goods and fucking...
What if he decides that?
What if he really decides that?
Then is it better?
Let's take a chance.
And I think a lot of people did that.
bryan callen
I agree.
joe rogan
And then I also think we're realizing, and we should, this is something we need to all come to grips with.
It is irrational, illogical, nonsensical, and antiquated to have one person have that much power in the United States of America.
It is nonsense.
It's not something we need.
It's a value system and a ruler leadership system that's designed for small groups of people, and it works very well.
It works very well for groups of 150 people with leaves over their dicks.
But as soon as you get to 320 million people, All trapped together on a landmass.
You cannot have one dipshit that's good at insulting people and standing in front of a camera.
I don't care if it's him or the next guy.
It's not an assault on Donald Trump.
It's like one person who figures out a way to...
Fucking manipulate and dance and do his best.
America's Got Talent fucking prepresentation.
Representation?
bryan callen
Representation.
joe rogan
One of those things.
To get to the point where people go, ah, the other lady's boring and she keeps fainting.
Boom!
And they hit the switch for Trump.
I mean, you've got to get past that.
bryan callen
I don't think the president has that.
They have plenty of power.
One of the things the president always talks about, and governors talk about, is how little power they have.
joe rogan
You say that, but there's real problems right now with the Environmental Protection Agency being defunded.
There's real problems right now with them deciding to start drilling in places in Alaska that people have been fighting for them drilling for decades because they're worried that in extracting minerals from the ground they're going to ruin these salmon waterways.
bryan callen
Well, he can appoint judges and he can appoint judges.
joe rogan
He can do a lot of things.
And obviously, that causes a big stir in political discourse and people being active.
And you're seeing like some trans woman got elected somewhere and gay people are getting elected.
And so you're seeing a rebound, which is how it's supposed to work.
bryan callen
That's right.
He's created a lot of civic unrest and a lot of civic organization on the other side.
joe rogan
On the other side.
bryan callen
Yeah, David Frum was talking about that.
joe rogan
He is.
Yeah, he just sent me his book.
We just have to be really careful, like really careful of getting tribal with this.
Again, I hate to reiterate this, but I think that in looking at the group of humans as a whole, there's a real problem that on the left and on the right people have with getting attached to their particular ideology they've adopted and fighting against anything that's any different and not coming to some sort of a common understanding of what we really need to get by on this planet.
bryan callen
Well, it's called a couple of things.
One is there are different psychological profiles.
And I've heard Jordan Peterson talk about sort of like the left is rooted in compassion, the right is rooted in respect for the strong.
And then what happens is the way things move forward is you have an idea, I have an idea, and remember something.
It's very important.
Human beings usually are weighing two values in their head at one time.
Let me give you an example.
I don't believe in illegal immigration, but I have a lot of compassion for people who are dying to get over the border.
If I was a border control agent, I would probably be the guy who's like, come on in, because I'm emotional.
It doesn't mean that's right.
What it means is that sometimes you weigh two values in your head, right?
Mercy and compassion versus justice and fair play.
joe rogan
Let me propose something to you.
Now, this is going to sound crazy for a lot of people.
unidentified
You're a fucking commie.
joe rogan
At one point in time, I believe, in the future, we will not have boundaries in terms of places you're allowed to travel and not to travel.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
At one point in time, people will truly be thought of as equal.
And when that point in time happens, you allow people to freely travel all over the world.
Why can't we do that now?
bryan callen
First of all, you won't even have to travel.
I think what's going to happen is when you can interface with another brain, And that's possible.
You're going to have an experience about exactly what it's like to be a woman.
Exactly what it's like, by the way, to be a woman.
I'm going to take it.
I want to be a woman so I can see what it's like to have sex with LeBron James.
But here's the thing.
joe rogan
Would you complain or would you put your hands on her hips?
bryan callen
I'm going to be able to experience it, so then if I can interface with another brain, now we got a real problem, because what the fuck does that mean about my identity?
joe rogan
What if you can't pick which brain you interface with?
You're going to be a girl who has sex with LeBron James, but you're a 100-pound Irish girl.
Like, shit.
You're going to get your uterus blown out.
You want a 178 pound chick from Ecuador that can take it.
bryan callen
Who can really take it?
I don't think any of that's going to happen.
I think what's going to happen is you're going to have guys like LeBron James who have these fantastic lives, who have sex and dunk basketballs, and they're going to sell their experience.
You want to interface with my brain?
It's going to cost you this much money.
And that is going to be the new drug.
The new drug is going to be, I want to see what it's like to be either Whoever it is, LeBron James.
joe rogan
And then Dennis Rodman will rise again.
Correct.
Dennis Rodman will rise from the flames like a fucking phoenix.
He'll be the number one superstar again in the world.
bryan callen
And when you watch porn, you're going to be able to tap into the guy's brain.
And you're going to be able to have sex with anybody you want.
joe rogan
And you're going to be thinking about Dick just like he is.
bryan callen
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
Imagine that.
Imagine if you get your favorite porn star.
bryan callen
Why do you keep bringing it over to Dick?
joe rogan
You're like, hey, he's thinking about Dick.
This is confusing.
Why am I coming when I'm thinking about guy butts?
Ugh!
Shit!
bryan callen
Damn it!
joe rogan
People get mad at you.
Yo, I got honeydicked by that Brian Callen video.
bryan callen
Motherfucker.
joe rogan
Homeboy's got a giant dick, but he's thinking about dudes' butts all the time.
No way.
But he fucks all the hottest girls.
Doesn't matter, man.
While he's fucking all the hottest girls, he's thinking about dudes' butts.
Hold on, Del, bro.
Did you come or not?
unidentified
Came immediately.
Immediately.
joe rogan
I came like a terrorist.
bryan callen
But he was wearing a wig in my mind.
joe rogan
I came like a dude strapped with dynamite getting his dick sucked for the last time.
unidentified
Ooh!
benjamin jaffe
And then I took the headphones off, like, fuck you, Brian Cowan!
bryan callen
Goddammit!
unidentified
He's fucking the hottest girls, but he's thinking about dudes' butts!
joe rogan
Your friends would be like, man, I don't even know if he's telling the truth.
I've been holding out for the Brian Cowan virtual reality sex video, but now...
bryan callen
God, he's so medium and white.
joe rogan
I don't want to think about dudes' butts.
bryan callen
This is great.
I know.
Oh, I told you I had a dream I was gay, right, a couple times?
I was talking about that on a podcast.
joe rogan
Before or after you had gay sex?
bryan callen
This was during, so I don't know if that makes sense.
joe rogan
Dream.
I was gay.
Dream of gay things.
bryan callen
And in my dream I was like, I can't believe I'm gay.
This is so not what I'm into.
And then I knew I was going to have to have sex with my boyfriend, who may or may not have been Brendan Schaub.
I can't remember.
joe rogan
It was a big guy.
That's a gate you can't really bounce back and forth from.
bryan callen
I don't know, man.
I've actually never really had a gay impulse.
joe rogan
We need to talk to Thaddeus Russell because he'll tell you you're a liar and that all men have some sort of gay fantasy somewhere deep in their head.
bryan callen
Me and Thaddeus had a conversation about truth, like plural truths versus one fixed truth.
That's a huge debate.
You know what I mean by that?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
So, like, Nietzsche would be the guy to talk about plural truth.
So if you look at a painting, that painting is, there are different truths, right?
One is that painting's beautiful, and that's all I know.
It's beautiful.
It affects me emotionally.
That's the truth.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
Then a chemist would look at that painting and say, well, you're not really seeing yellow.
What you're seeing is, you know, your eyes are looking at light, and they reflect.
There's a chemical in there, and you break down a chemical.
joe rogan
So there's a different layer to truth, you're saying?
bryan callen
Different kinds of truth.
joe rogan
True love.
Right.
bryan callen
So true love, that's still a really interesting mystery to me because I wonder if that's a relationship with yourself.
So sometimes you're obsessed with somebody, right?
You love them?
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
You might be obsessed with the idea of being the one that can break them, that can be the one that tames them, the one that owns them, the one that gets them to forget about all other dick and just yours.
That's...
What a lot of relationships are predicated on.
This notion of territoriality.
joe rogan
Right, but is that true love?
Is that what we're talking about?
Does it matter?
But what really matter is the moments where you are together, where you truly care about each other, where the intensity is almost overwhelming, and the love and the happiness to be with each other is almost overwhelming.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
That is really true love.
bryan callen
Is that a state though?
So is that a state and how long does it last?
joe rogan
That's a good question.
And whether or not you're committed to that person as a love, not just a love interest, but like as an inhabitant in your realm of truly loved ones.
What is your village of truly loved ones?
bryan callen
I have a cynical answer for you on that.
So I know what the Greeks said.
So why do you love your children?
Why?
What is it about your children that you love?
And this is what Socrates said.
This is kind of an interesting way of looking at it.
So he said, love, difficult to define.
You have to define it as love of something.
unidentified
Right.
bryan callen
And what is the one thing man loves more than anything else?
Think about it.
joe rogan
Pussy.
bryan callen
Not close?
Pussy is maybe a manifestation of what you're trying to get from it.
What is it?
Come on.
joe rogan
Attention.
bryan callen
Why would you breed?
joe rogan
Uh, you wanna get rid of jizz?
bryan callen
Goddammit!
Goddammit!
Keep going!
You gotta think deeper, bro!
I need you to think the next level!
Why?
What is it that man loves more than anything else?
What does he want more than anything else?
joe rogan
I don't know.
What does he want?
You tell me.
bryan callen
Immortality.
You wanna live forever?
joe rogan
Pussy comes first.
bryan callen
Exactly!
unidentified
Well, pussy's the gateway!
joe rogan
Do you wanna live forever with no pussy?
bryan callen
Pussy's the gateway, because you create kids!
unidentified
And your kids are your genetic expression.
joe rogan
Ask anybody worth a fuck, do you want to live forever with no pussy, forever, or live for a hundred years and just live like Jay-Z on a yacht in gold underwear with two champagne bottles?
unidentified
I want to live dangerously!
bryan callen
I want to live dangerously!
joe rogan
Yes!
bryan callen
You want to live dangerously, not safely?
Fuck a thousand years, I'll have a hundred years of excitement.
joe rogan
So, what you're saying about immortality is horseshit.
Because immortality without pussy is nonsense.
bryan callen
Immortality is represented in different things.
Watch.
joe rogan
Your work, your legacy.
Listen to me, sweetie.
If someone is in my circle of friends and somebody offers you immortality with no pussy or 100 years and pussy, if you don't take choice number two, lose my number.
bryan callen
But hold on.
Hold on, sir.
joe rogan
Stop texting me.
I can't work with you anymore.
bryan callen
Sir, I would argue that your love of pussy might be genetically Like, you've evolved to...
Your love of pussy is your love of pussy because you ultimately want to spread and further your DNA. Well, first of all, I think we're being very disrespectful, you particularly, of calling you pussy.
I meant vagina.
joe rogan
I'm talking about sexual relations.
bryan callen
Sorry, sir.
joe rogan
What about the gay folk?
bryan callen
Okay.
joe rogan
The gay folk would want to be...
What?
No, just sex.
bryan callen
It's true, actually.
joe rogan
Instead of sex.
Yeah, instead of calling a pussy.
Because the gay folk would be like, hey man, I'm with you, but you're excluding me.
I'm one-tenth of the population, allegedly.
bryan callen
Not one-tenth.
joe rogan
38% quoted Thaddeus Russell.
bryan callen
No, Thaddeus!
joe rogan
That's what he said.
bryan callen
That's what he said.
We might be misquoting him.
joe rogan
87% of dudes get hard when they see dudes getting sucked by dudes.
bryan callen
That's not true.
That's not true.
joe rogan
He didn't say that.
He didn't say that.
I like Thaddeus.
bryan callen
Yeah, me too.
joe rogan
But I think that the idea of not being in a sexually pleasurable relationship with someone for all of eternity, that sounds stupid.
bryan callen
First of all...
joe rogan
That just can't be as good.
bryan callen
Did you see that study they did with men and women in long-term relationships?
You know what the secret was?
The long-term...
joe rogan
Ecstasy?
bryan callen
They fucked!
They had a deep sexual connection.
Get the fuck out of here.
joe rogan
Talk to me.
bryan callen
I'm just friends with you.
We have a deep friendship.
You should want to fuck the person.
I've heard that successful marriages are like that.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
Why are you making those noises?
joe rogan
That's what you do when you fuck, right?
You snap your fingers, you make mean noises.
bryan callen
No, I don't do that.
I go like this.
joe rogan
And I do a lot of slicking back hair I don't even have.
bryan callen
That's what I do.
That's what I do.
That's what she does.
joe rogan
In all honesty, if you had a choice between living like a hermit, like all bullshit aside, no jokes, living like a hermit, living like someone who occasionally interacts with people but doesn't have any real deep connection with them, or living like you're in like a wonderful community of people that you care about and drinking and carrying on and hugging each other and Laughing and joking around and waking up hungover and getting breakfast together.
You live for a hundred years.
bryan callen
You want me to get intellectual?
You know what you're talking about right now?
You know the distinction you're drawing, my friend?
Can I get philosophical on you?
The distinction between Socrates and Nietzsche.
Socrates He said, a man should have quiet contempt for his body and ultimately learn to be a contemplative human being.
Just be a brain.
And your body's nothing.
And as he was dying, he drank the hemlock.
He said, why are you guys crying?
I'm living in this shitty shell and it's all gross and I'm going on to a better...
I'm going to be in the sky with all the great philosophers.
And Nietzsche goes, yeah, Socrates, you said that because you're...
Ugly.
You never got laid.
So, of course, you want to negate and you turned reason into a tyrant.
And he said, all those seven deadly sins that the Christians talk about, like pride, there's another word for pride.
It's called self-esteem.
Self-esteem is a good thing.
And lust, yeah.
Sex is a lot of fun, even though he never had sex.
But literally, he basically never got laid.
What?
Yeah, they think he either got syphilis and that's why he died and went crazy or he was gay.
Either way, he never got laid.
He had a giant mustache.
Bring up Nietzsche and take a look at his mustache.
He used to talk about masks.
He had a crazy mustache.
joe rogan
I would love it if Nietzsche was gay.
bryan callen
Brilliant motherfucker, but he talked about make your life a circus and a work of art.
Enjoy everything and live dangerously.
Don't be fucking in a mountain.
When you're in a mountain meditating, it's awesome, but guess what?
You're not really engaged in the world.
joe rogan
I wish he was gay.
bryan callen
Look at that mustache.
joe rogan
Look at that fucking mustache.
There's so many dudes that are like real aggro, sort of Wall Street type guys that are pro-Nichi.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
It would be awesome if Nietzsche was just like, the whole time he was talking, yeah, you're ugly.
I'm thinking about good-looking guy's cocks.
bryan callen
Hopefully.
joe rogan
He's making that noise.
This is the noise I want you to think about him making behind the spectacles with that beautiful mustache with that suit on.
He's doing this.
As soon as they stop the camera...
Thinking about dicks.
bryan callen
You're being stereotypical.
He's not licking his lips.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's slurping.
bryan callen
You don't know.
joe rogan
Look at him.
Look at that face.
That would be a dick slurping type face.
bryan callen
Things whistle through his mustache when he says fuck.
joe rogan
Maybe that's why he has that mustache in the first place.
So dudes can just really grab it and get all four fingers entangled in his lips.
bryan callen
Hey man, stop talking about Nietzsche like this, bro.
joe rogan
Manipulate his lips.
bryan callen
I'm having an intellectual discussion.
joe rogan
Those are lip handles.
He could grab a hold of them and wrap them.
Lift them in the fingers and then use it to just like push down on the shaft.
bryan callen
Ladies and gentlemen, I want to apologize.
I want to apologize to all you Nietzsche fans.
joe rogan
Why else would you grow mustache on your face?
bryan callen
Who the fuck is going to use that?
He was basically sick his whole life.
He was sick his whole life.
joe rogan
You didn't suck that many dicks, man.
You suck a lot of dicks.
You lose weight.
bryan callen
I don't know if that's true, sir.
joe rogan
You cough a lot.
bryan callen
Sir, I don't know if that's true.
joe rogan
He's got a dick handle on his upper lip, man.
unidentified
I know a lot of girls who've done that.
joe rogan
There's no other reason to have that.
Why else would you grow a dick handle on your upper lip?
bryan callen
Because he's hiding behind his mustache.
He's sensitive.
joe rogan
What about a full beard?
Like a fucking animal.
bryan callen
It's interesting.
joe rogan
Like some dude in Special Forces.
It's got a neck handkerchief on.
Those neckerchiefs.
bryan callen
That was part of his...
joe rogan
Those special forces scarves?
bryan callen
His mask!
joe rogan
Why do so many of those real badass spec ops guys have those crazy things around their neck?
bryan callen
Oh, you mean ropes?
joe rogan
No, those bandana type things.
bryan callen
Do you want to know?
joe rogan
They're like scarves.
bryan callen
I have the answer.
joe rogan
Why?
bryan callen
Okay, ready?
joe rogan
Go ahead.
bryan callen
I know this from my buddy Rudy Reyes, who is a recon guy.
Saw a lot of action.
They did Generation Kill.
joe rogan
What do you call those things?
bryan callen
Why do you wear a scarf?
Here's why.
Ready, dude?
Ready for this?
Hey, all you operators out there, please forgive me.
I've never done any, but just indulge me.
And all due respect.
If I'm here and I'm shooting, and you're next to me, where are my shells going?
They're fucking hot.
They're spitting out.
And when that shell lands in your neck and gets under your shirt, it burns like a motherfucker.
No, so you cover your neck.
When you're in a firefight, motherfucker, you cover your neck!
So you wear that!
unidentified
You open that motherfucker up, Dick Marchenko style!
bryan callen
Now you're talking.
Now you got burn marks all over your body?
joe rogan
All over.
I'm like little fucking rain teardrops rolling down your chest.
unidentified
Stop!
bryan callen
How about me in Afghanistan?
When I went to do stand-up in Afghanistan, I wore one of those, and the Special Forces guy, we were in the truck, he goes, take that off.
I go, why?
He goes, if we get hit with an IED, your face is going to catch fire, motherfucker.
unidentified
I was like, oh shit!
joe rogan
Randy Couture used to wear one of those.
bryan callen
Randy Couture can wear whatever he wants.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's the sign of what a bad motherfucker Randy Couture is.
He thinks he's going to walk around with a scarf on him.
bryan callen
He was a ranger too, wasn't he?
Was he in the military?
joe rogan
He was definitely in the army.
Yeah.
He learned to box in the army.
Look at him.
unidentified
Fucking stud.
joe rogan
He wears those things all over the place.
unidentified
He should.
joe rogan
Nobody says shit about it.
It's fashion.
bryan callen
He could wear a dick on his head and still.
joe rogan
He signs a new five scarf deal.
Wow.
What year is this?
unidentified
A five scarf deal sounds like a joke.
joe rogan
It might be.
Click on it.
unidentified
It might be real.
joe rogan
He really is a striking guy.
He's a handsome man.
I guarantee this ain't a joke.
What year is this?
What year is this article?
jamie vernon
It's from January of this year.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
Yeah.
bryan callen
He's a handsome dude.
joe rogan
It's not that old.
bryan callen
Less than a year.
Do you remember you and I when we were like 28 years old?
Do you remember you and I when we first saw him?
Joe and I first saw him.
We were at the UFC and he was standing there and we were like, we snuck up and we were looking at him and he had a big ball on his knee.
He was like, he has a weird knee.
And we were like, his legs are skinny compared to his body.
And we were like assessing.
We were taking him down.
We were looking at his whole body but we were like two teenage girls looking at a rock star.
I never forgot that.
joe rogan
Earliest days, dude.
You and I went to one of the earliest ever UFCs when I was like, I don't I can't work for these people anymore.
I was like, what am I doing?
bryan callen
I remember you calling me saying you were gonna announce at UFC. I remember you saying, dude, get this.
joe rogan
I was like, what?
The fucking people that worked for news radio, like the production people, were like, what?
And I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go to Alabama to do this UFC thing and some cage fighting.
They looked at me like I was going to watch animal porn.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
I was gonna watch some chicks suck some donkey dicks and a bunch of dudes get fucked by mules.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
They were like, oh my god, you're ruining your life.
And I was like, I'm not.
They're gonna fight.
bryan callen
You and I were obsessed.
I remember that.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm like, they have to figure out who's the best.
They have to fight.
bryan callen
I remember meeting or looking at Bustamante, and you said, what's his first name?
joe rogan
Murillo.
bryan callen
Murillo Bustamante, and he's 6'4", and he was at a food, there was like a food laid out, and you were like, that guy's one of the best jujitsu guys in the world, and I looked at him, he had that jaw, and I was just like, God.
Remember Goaz out in Goaz saying that?
I was like, fucking studs.
joe rogan
Vitor, that's me.
1997 in Dothan, Alabama.
bryan callen
Oh my lord.
joe rogan
Look at me.
bryan callen
What a beautiful young man he was.
joe rogan
How sweet.
I had beautiful skin.
bryan callen
Remember we used to train at Carlson Gracie's and he was there?
joe rogan
I had a semi-full head of hair.
bryan callen
You sure did, buddy.
joe rogan
I was starting to go, though.
bryan callen
You sure did.
joe rogan
I was doing my best to hang on.
bryan callen
Look at how sharp your nose was.
Look at how different your nose is.
joe rogan
My whole face got fatter.
bryan callen
Pull me up.
I was the same way.
I did Artie Lang's radio show.
joe rogan
You get rounded off as you get old.
bryan callen
Dude, I had a sharp nose, a skinny fucking neck.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's weird.
bryan callen
Like I'm a thick guy now.
joe rogan
Well, when we first met, we were both skinny.
We were both like 27 maybe?
bryan callen
I had breakfast with Brandon Schaub this morning, and I came fresh, fresh from my Olympic lifting class.
You know I Olympic lift now, right?
And my testosterone was spiking.
unidentified
There you are.
Look at that.
joe rogan
Look at that!
You cutie.
See if you can get me and Brian Callan together when Brian was a pool boy.
bryan callen
Dude, you know what's really sad about that picture?
I thought I was kind of tough back then.
joe rogan
You're always a sweet guy.
bryan callen
No, but I mean, in my mind, I was like, I'm a black belt.
I wrestled in high school.
What a sad story.
joe rogan
I remember when we first met, man.
We immediately had so much in common.
We started talking about martial arts.
unidentified
We're like, what?
joe rogan
You did Taekwondo?
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
You're a comedian?
unidentified
What?
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
What happened to that chick?
What was her name?
bryan callen
Well, when you said you box and you do jujitsu and you have to because you'd be in jail otherwise, I went, oh, that guy speaks my language.
joe rogan
We're both retards.
Both have pit bulls.
bryan callen
There you go.
joe rogan
There's you.
bryan callen
There's Brian.
joe rogan
Look at you.
bryan callen
What's your fucking bikini on?
Oh, look at the dancing.
joe rogan
Look at you.
bryan callen
Look at that.
joe rogan
Hilarious.
bryan callen
I probably was doing push-ups, too.
joe rogan
Where's her?
bryan callen
She was writing...
What's her name again?
unidentified
Mary...
bryan callen
Oh my god, I can't...
unidentified
You son of a bitch.
bryan callen
I cannot believe I'm forgetting her name.
She's the most talented woman of all time.
joe rogan
Fucking funny, I'll tell you that.
Whatever her name is.
bryan callen
She's incredible.
joe rogan
The fuck's her name, man?
bryan callen
I really like her.
I cannot believe I'm forgetting Mary's name.
joe rogan
Brian will find her.
unidentified
I'm so sorry.
joe rogan
Jamie will find it.
There's me.
Look at you!
bryan callen
Look at you!
joe rogan
How weird is that, dude?
Someone captured time.
bryan callen
I know!
joe rogan
This actually really happened with us.
bryan callen
I know!
joe rogan
We were actually there.
bryan callen
Look at us.
joe rogan
In 94. Dixie West.
Find out what her name is, man.
I feel disrespectful.
bryan callen
Mary.
Mary, I'm so sorry.
joe rogan
We're going to find it.
bryan callen
I'm 50 and I'm senile.
Oh my God.
unidentified
He smoked weed before this show.
bryan callen
That's what it is, you bastard.
Now I'm embarrassing myself.
joe rogan
We're doing a wonderful job of entertaining people.
bryan callen
She's incredible.
I was always in awe of her talent.
She's impossibly funny.
joe rogan
Mary Masterson.
No, but that's patriarchy.
Son.
Masterwoman.
bryan callen
We have to smash the patriarchy.
joe rogan
Is there a last name?
Masterwoman?
How come you can have Masterson?
Can you even have Masterman?
bryan callen
Yeah, Masterman.
joe rogan
Yeah?
bryan callen
Mary Shearer.
Oh, goddammit!
joe rogan
Mary Shearer.
bryan callen
I'm so embarrassed!
joe rogan
Shout out to Mary.
She was very funny.
bryan callen
She's incredible.
joe rogan
That was a great character she had, too.
bryan callen
She was one of those people that was so talented.
She would write shit, and she would figure out what was wrong with the sketch, and I would be so in awe.
But then, she was a groundling forever.
I didn't know.
I was like, oh, you've been doing this forever.
I had never done sketch.
joe rogan
It's a very specific type of comedy.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
You know, it's very different.
Doing sketches is a very different animal than doing stand-up.
bryan callen
She was ridiculously funny.
joe rogan
She still is, I'm sure.
It's a weird form of comedy.
You know, those sketch little short things, you're writing them every week.
That's the craziest thing about Saturday Night Live.
bryan callen
It takes so much work, dude.
joe rogan
Yeah, like the Chappelle show and a lot of these other shows, they had time to develop these sketches and they weren't doing them all in front of a live audience like Saturday Night Live does.
bryan callen
I have friends who have been on Saturday Night Live, and that is a grueling schedule.
They're up all night, man, coming up with ideas.
joe rogan
It seems like, well, at least coming from Phil Hartman's explanation of it, he said it was very competitive.
bryan callen
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
To the point where people got real hostile with each other.
It was never a relaxed, fun environment.
In fact, when he first came from Saturday Night Live and came over to news radio, he was a little standoffish at first.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then eventually he realized, oh, these people aren't competing with me.
We're not competing.
It took a while, though.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There was an environment of SNL that was super hyper-competitive.
bryan callen
Lorne Michaels wants it to be that way.
You have to compete to get your sketch on, and if you don't, you go away.
And so it's a very competitive atmosphere.
joe rogan
You could see it, and Phil just relaxed.
After a while, he relaxed.
I'm like, no, no, no, we're not competing.
You're Phil Hartman.
I'm some fucking dude that nobody even knows.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay, and we're both on a show together.
Hey, what's up?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he's like, oh, okay, okay, okay.
And then I got deeper and deeper to know him.
This was back in my non-weed smoking days.
Unfortunately, I wish I smoked weed, because he used to love to smoke weed.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He would smoke weed after shows and wind down.
He'd play music and go to strip clubs and shit.
bryan callen
He was impossibly funny.
joe rogan
He was a really interesting guy.
Not like any guy I've ever met.
Legitimately not like any guy I've ever met.
He had an incredibly unique way of viewing opportunities and things.
One of the things that happened is he didn't really make it until he was quite old.
bryan callen
He was a grounding, right?
Or was he Second City?
I think he was a grounding.
joe rogan
I think he was Second City.
He might have been grounding, too.
I think you might be right.
But I know he was also an artist.
And he did Pee-wee's Playhouse.
He did something with Pee-wee's play, you know, Pee-wee Hearn.
bryan callen
An artist like a painter?
joe rogan
Yeah, no, he used to make album covers and stuff.
Yeah, he was like a legit graphic artist.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was a fascinating guy.
Like when we first did NewsRadio together, he just decided he wanted to get his pilot's license.
So every time I'd talk to him, homeboy would have his pilot's book out.
And he'd be going over his fucking pilot's book and going...
Like, he would constantly have it on the set, like, in between scenes.
He would do a scene, and then he would open up his pilot's book.
unidentified
Goddamn.
joe rogan
He just was obsessed with learning how to fly a plane.
bryan callen
My dad was that way.
joe rogan
Fucking loved it.
bryan callen
Yeah.
My father was obsessed with that.
He got his pilot's license.
I never got it.
I was like, I don't know why he didn't care that much.
joe rogan
Well, you know what it is, man?
It's freedom.
It's like, especially a guy, obviously, I can say this now, since his wife killed him, he had a bad relationship.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
When you have a bad relationship, you just want to fly away.
bryan callen
How are his kids doing, I wonder?
Do you know?
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
Horrible story.
bryan callen
That was the worst.
I remember talking to you right after it.
joe rogan
Again, this is another thing where it was a dissociative.
It was a psych medicine.
It was Zoloft mixed with cocaine.
Not saying that she wouldn't have done that without anything.
Not saying that the drugs are responsible.
But I'm saying it's eerie how many different violent episodes are connected to psych medication.
Yeah.
You're fucking with the very way that your brain interfaces with reality.
To think that that doesn't have consequences is absurd.
bryan callen
It's absurd.
joe rogan
It's absurd.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And to think that you can sort of poo-poo those consequences, like correlation is not causation.
Okay.
You're right.
You're right.
But have you done a study to find out what's what?
Have you really dug into it?
Have you looked into these people?
Have you found out what they were like?
Is there a way to even back-engineer their personality before you start adding drugs?
Is there a way?
Do you know what the difference between depression and psychotic madness is?
I don't know.
I'm not.
And I think, obviously, the guy, the Vegas shooter, nobody knew, right?
If nobody knew and he just did that, so there's a line that he can cross where he's capable of doing that.
You don't know what that line is, right?
My point is, we're not dealing with an exact science.
We're dealing with something that varies so widely.
bryan callen
And they adjust the dosages depending on how you react to it.
joe rogan
The only reason why people are saying it's fine is because they make money from it.
That's it.
they didn't make money from it they'd be like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa how many people are being prescribed What?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Why?
Did you try exercise?
You didn't.
Okay.
So you just took a pill.
You're eating sugar all day and you just took a pill.
Now everything's supposed to be good.
bryan callen
Did you check your hormones?
joe rogan
Did you do anything other than that?
bryan callen
Yeah.
Your thyroid, your hormones, any of that.
joe rogan
Did you try meditation?
Did you try exercise?
Did you try jogging?
I want you to try jogging for six months and I'll give you the pills.
But then again, is that hypocritical?
If I think coke should be legal, shouldn't I think that people should be able to take a pill?
bryan callen
Well, I think your objection to that is that there's an entire industry making lots of money and making claims about those psychotic drugs, those drugs, those psychosomatic, whatever the word is, drugs.
That maybe in many cases are not true.
I'm sure that things like Prozac and Zoloft have their place.
I'm sure they work for some people.
I know, in fact, I have family members that really do well with Xanax.
joe rogan
And I do as well.
And I know people that have helped as well.
bryan callen
And just like weed is good for some people and other people can't function.
I can't really function on marijuana.
joe rogan
You're talking pretty good right now.
bryan callen
Thank you.
Yes, I am.
But for the most part, it depends on your chemistry and your body.
But I think what you're objecting to is that people are getting very, very wealthy, certainly companies, on...
Claims that are not measurable and not always true.
joe rogan
There's that.
But there's also the same reason why I don't think a 900-year-old dude should be able to fuck a 50-year-old lady.
Because I think she's basically like a baby to him.
This is what I think.
I think that people are too goddamn vulnerable and gullible.
And when you have these commercials where there's people walking down the street and cartoon butterflies are flying around and they're all jolly and you're selling antidepressants and then you start listing off Explosive anal bleeding.
Heart blowing out of your fucking chest like the Alien movie.
Your dick falls off.
Your feet go numb.
You start reading off this thing while you're showing the same cheerful environment and crazy music.
I think that alone shows you that there's a problem.
Just those commercials alone.
The fact that they exist.
The way they're structured.
The fact that they have to say all these horrific side effects.
For like a minute, two minutes of the commercial, it's a horrific side effect.
A giant, like, if you have, like, legitimately have, and what is a commercial?
30 seconds?
It's entirely possible that 15 of those 30 seconds are going to be the consequences of you taking this drug.
While you're looking at cartoon bunny rabbits and wheat flying through the air and everybody's smiling and there's a bunch of whistles and fucking piano and it seems like everybody's having a grand old time.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they're talking about death and suicidal thoughts and psychotic episodes.
Come on!
bryan callen
If you want a really good insight into how Big Pharma works, read Ben Goldacre's book, Big Pharma.
Fucking great book.
Bad Pharma, I think it's called.
joe rogan
It's just money.
And it's the same thing as all of it.
It's tribalism.
bryan callen
Because if you could look at your team, your pharmaceutical team, as being you against everybody else, you could figure out a way to sell fucked up drugs to people that you really shouldn't I just have to say something because we're doing this podcast that my entire act right now my new hour is all about this and everybody who's seen me knows that this is true so I want to say this because you're talking about teams and tribalism the theme of my fucking next hour is exactly this how we break up into teams so I just don't want anybody to think that my next
joe rogan
hour has been influenced by this fucking podcast because I love that you're thinking about the same thing I am I think a lot of people are thinking about this now because as we're running into this weird situation where we realize that You know, our democracy is in some weird way being examined.
bryan callen
Well, it's being fractured.
joe rogan
It's being fractured.
But it's being examined by people that are looking at it from all sorts of different angles in an unprecedented manner, right?
And we're looking at the influence that Russia might have had and all this Bernie Sanders is going to run in 2020. There's so much going on right now that's at this intense, incredibly high level.
That we're all sort of like caught up in this thing trying to figure out what's going to happen next.
bryan callen
It's also we're having really trouble knowing what to believe.
Yes.
Right?
I mean, we don't know what to believe and what to believe in.
I mean, is this a bot?
And what is Twitter?
unidentified
Right.
bryan callen
I mean, if six people are saying you did something and that's it, how true is this?
And if the stories are all remarkably similar, now there's some consistencies, i.e.
Charlie Rose.
It's a very interesting time because privacy...
Privacy is dead, yet we still don't really know what to believe.
I'm getting information from six different sources, so who's actually telling me the truth about that person or that event?
That's the biggest.
That's, to me, one of the biggest things.
joe rogan
And when you add that to clickbaitiness, it gets to be a real problem.
bryan callen
It creates cynicism, and it creates paranoia, and it creates the idea that I can't rely on the institutions I used to be able to rely on.
joe rogan
Yeah, and there's also been an observed strategy of really inflated headlines that get altered later.
You know, they say something completely ridiculous, it's not really represented by the facts, and then they tone it down when people complain, but they got all the initial hits.
bryan callen
That's right.
Well, politics is doing that.
You can sway a vote by floating things anonymously, and then by the time it comes out that it's bullshit, well, you've lost.
joe rogan
Well, it's also dirty to name stuff after important values, like the Patriot Act.
unidentified
Of course.
joe rogan
Like, hey, you fuck.
bryan callen
How do you vote against the Patriot Act?
unidentified
You can't.
bryan callen
That's the Patriot.
You're not a Patriot?
joe rogan
Exactly.
Like, that's rude.
bryan callen
Of course.
joe rogan
That's rude.
That's a rude, dirty trick.
unidentified
That's right.
joe rogan
Somebody should have pointed that out.
David Frum did.
If somebody had any balls that was on the Senate floor.
bryan callen
David Frum did.
joe rogan
Did he?
bryan callen
Good for him.
In a book called Don't Think of an Elephant, I think it was called.
joe rogan
What year was this when he did it?
bryan callen
I read that a long time ago, but he basically talks about how language, if you learn how to manipulate language, it is very beneficial, man.
Of course.
It's really interesting.
I read...
Interesting things about, like, our population.
Do you know that 80, I think it's 82% of Americans can't name one living scientist?
Yet, if you ask, 82% of Americans will say that politicians should be talking to scientists.
Even though they can't name one living scientist, like Neil deGrasse Tyson or Stephen Hawking or Lawrence Krauss.
At the same time, there is a deep, not only mistrust, but also respect for science.
In other words, hey, hey, hey, you politicians, listen to the fucking science.
If there's a weapon out there that can, if there's a technology that can reduce all the dust, listen to those fucking guys.
At the same time, I find it very interesting that science is still being questioned.
Like, there's real questions on the right about the science behind climate change.
joe rogan
Right.
Well, did you see what happened recently?
Was it in Texas?
The recent rash of earthquakes?
I tweeted about it today.
Directly connected to fracking.
bryan callen
I'm sure.
But what is also interesting is that both sides, the left and right, speaking of tribalism, the left doesn't want to hear anything about the difference, the scientific difference between men and women.
That would be, and especially when you start talking about the difference between male and female brains.
Because what happens, if you're James Dannemore, is that what you're saying is that women are a victim to their biology and ultimately are not able to overcome certain things that men have inherently.
joe rogan
You're talking about James Damore, the guy from the Google Note.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
I just want to free people to Google the wrong guy.
He's the Google memo guy.
bryan callen
Yeah, and I read that Google memo twice.
And what's interesting is a lot of evolutionary psychologists and biologists basically said, well, what he was saying was just drawing on empirical evidence based on how, for example, A 48-year-old, a 48-month-old infant female and a 48-month-old male will look at two, if you give them a choice between looking at something moving and a human face, typically the female, the 48-hour-old female, will look at the face, the human face.
The boy will look at the moving object.
joe rogan
What about lesbians?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
What about if a kid is right out of the room, like leather-cut Tuscadero?
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
That's a different story.
With a mohawk.
Happy days.
With a Theo Vaughn haircut.
joe rogan
Do you remember when Pinky Tuscadero came to town?
bryan callen
Yes, I do.
joe rogan
Leather was out of town.
bryan callen
Remember this?
joe rogan
Yeah, they did that thing.
You had to learn it.
bryan callen
How do you remember that?
joe rogan
I remember that.
We're the same age.
We had to learn it in high school.
bryan callen
Pinky Tuscadero.
Pinky Tuscadero!
joe rogan
You had to learn it.
And once you learn it, you only learn how to do it one-sided.
bryan callen
Are we 50 or what?
joe rogan
Was that her?
Who's that chick?
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
No.
That's a new chick.
Oh, that's her?
That's what she looks like now?
bryan callen
That was Pinky Tuscadero?
joe rogan
Wow, that's what she looked like?
That's leather Tuscadero.
bryan callen
Hmm.
joe rogan
That's leather Tuscadero and then there was Pinky.
bryan callen
Yeah, Pinky was different.
Which one's Pinky?
joe rogan
Pinky was like a little tougher.
She wore like a pink leather jacket.
bryan callen
She sure did.
There she is.
joe rogan
There she is.
No, she had her shirt like hot.
unidentified
She was hot.
joe rogan
She was hot in like a dirty mom way.
bryan callen
Damn right.
She was a fucking dancer.
joe rogan
Woo!
Look at her with Fonzie.
bryan callen
And look at Fonzie!
joe rogan
By the way, you want to talk about the nicest guy on the planet?
It might be Henry Winkler.
bryan callen
I've met him.
joe rogan
He's such a sweetie.
unidentified
He's a doll.
joe rogan
He's a sweetie.
bryan callen
He's a beautiful man.
joe rogan
He's a really, really nice guy.
Yes, he is.
I did a Kevin James movie with him.
bryan callen
You did?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Guy could not have been nicer.
bryan callen
You know, I was supposed to do Kevin Can Wait.
They offered me a part, but I was in New York and I couldn't do it because I was doing Gotham comedy.
joe rogan
I don't want to hear your fucking excuses, bro.
bryan callen
No, but I'm glad I said that because I feel bad because I miss Kevin.
I really love him.
He's a good guy.
Have you talked to him lately?
joe rogan
No, I haven't, but I love that guy.
I love Kevin.
bryan callen
And Leah Remini's on that show, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, she's back.
She's a new wife.
bryan callen
Damn!
joe rogan
I don't know what happened.
Scientology.
bryan callen
I love Leah.
jamie vernon
When you mentioned Phil Hartman did some album covers, I found this.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
He did Asia.
bryan callen
Dude, have you heard Charles Manson's song?
He did Asia?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
Get the fuck out of here.
joe rogan
From Steely Dan.
bryan callen
What?
joe rogan
Yeah, what else do you have?
Eight album covers designed by Legendary Comedian.
unidentified
America.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's right.
And Poco.
Yep, he did that.
bryan callen
Are you fucking kidding?
joe rogan
No, he was awesome, man.
bryan callen
Did you hear...
unidentified
I'm sorry.
joe rogan
He did that?
bryan callen
Wow.
joe rogan
The Firesign Theater, Fighting Clowns?
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Damn, I want to get a print of that.
Go back to that.
See if we can find a print of that.
Firesign Theater, Fighting Clowns?
unidentified
I'll look it up.
joe rogan
Yeah, let's get a print of that and put it up in the studio.
bryan callen
Did you hear Charles Manson's song?
joe rogan
Did I hear about it?
I jerked off to it.
It was amazing.
bryan callen
Sir!
Sir, please!
joe rogan
Sorry.
5'2 Charlie Manson!
bryan callen
5'2 Charlie Manson!
joe rogan
I ate your garbage man!
You people held me down!
bryan callen
I played him on MADtv.
unidentified
Yeah, man.
bryan callen
That's right, baby!
joe rogan
It's amazing that that guy got so many people to follow him.
But that's the thing.
900-year-old people would not follow Charles Manson.
bryan callen
Man, stop talking about the 900-year-old people.
That's a long way out.
joe rogan
But that's the whole reason why we are infants.
We're just infants with a very short lifetime.
Our lifespan is quick.
bryan callen
Well, let me ask you this.
joe rogan
Imagine if people looked like, you ever look at a person from like the 1800s when they first started inventing photographs?
You see a 25-year-old, they're like, oh my god, he's almost dead.
They look so old.
bryan callen
They look so weathered.
joe rogan
They look like they were just dirt had been hit in their face.
bryan callen
The most eerie pictures are when they would take pictures with their dead relatives.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
bryan callen
You ever seen that?
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
This is my kid.
They all died.
They have pictures of them.
joe rogan
They take pictures with them.
Yeah, those people, they died quicker.
They looked like shit quicker.
bryan callen
But if you lived 800 years, this is what I think about.
I don't think about developing that much understanding.
I feel like I'd be like, all right, well, I guess I'll start the drums and then the guitar and then the piano and I'll master those as well.
And I would just figure out all the skills I'd master.
joe rogan
Let me tell you what you would be at 80 or 800 years old.
bryan callen
What?
joe rogan
You'd be living in a castle.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And you would basically be having young ladies come to the castle and give them seminars.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
That'd be 40 to 50. Enjoy your life.
Yeah.
Well, an older woman, because you're 800. They're going to look hot as fuck, and they're still going to be kind of spiritual, but not really religious.
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
And you're going to fuck.
unidentified
Would I be over it, though?
Why?
bryan callen
Why?
joe rogan
Why, does it stop being awesome?
Does sex stop being awesome?
I think that's a crock of shit designed by people who don't want to fuck.
bryan callen
Me too.
unidentified
One day it's gonna be boring.
bryan callen
Me too, buddy.
unidentified
One day.
bryan callen
Me too.
unidentified
One day you're not gonna like tits.
bryan callen
You're so right, man.
I love tits.
unidentified
One day you're not gonna like dicks and mouths.
Okay.
One day, it's gonna be boring.
joe rogan
Well, okay, maybe, but I don't see any evidence.
I'm not seeing any evidence that that's real.
I think you're making things up, and I'm not really interested in talking to you about this.
So, I find your fucking opinions are exhausting, and they're boring.
So you hang on to them.
bryan callen
Your opinions are exhausting and they're boring.
joe rogan
Yeah, so you hang on to them.
You run with them.
But I go, nah.
Nah, I'm good at it.
bryan callen
Nah.
joe rogan
The base living.
Here's the thing.
There's this idea that there's some higher level of thinking and there's base physical pleasures.
That's not real.
You have 100 years and then you're dead.
So you're supposed to have fun.
bryan callen
If you're lucky, you've got 100 years.
joe rogan
Just because you enjoy some very intellectual pursuits, it does not mean you should enjoy...
Getting your drink on every now and then or doing something stupid or being silly or sex or anything.
bryan callen
What would you say to yourself right now if I put your 25-year-old or your 20-year-old body right there?
What would you say to yourself right now?
joe rogan
Figure it out, bitch.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
That's what I'd say.
Yeah, you gotta figure it out.
bryan callen
You're gonna make your mistakes.
joe rogan
What you're gonna learn from someone, you're never gonna learn from them sitting down saying, listen, you gotta learn from me.
What you're gonna learn from someone is by example.
What you're gonna learn from someone is by someone out there following a lead that you know is difficult and achieving things that you think are very hard to achieve.
And you watch that and you go, okay, what you got to do is you got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
You got to grit your teeth.
You got to bear it down.
You got to work hard.
You got to be honest.
You got to be honest with yourself about how hard you're working.
And that's what a lot of people are not doing.
bryan callen
You're never going to learn how to slip a jab until you get punched in the face so much.
joe rogan
Someone's going to show you how to do it, but to really learn it to the point where it's a part of your neural patterns.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
There's certain things that happen to people where you see them slide their hips back.
Like, oh, that's a guy who's been kicked in the stomach.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
Like, he's been kicked in the stomach so many times.
Yeah, sure.
bryan callen
Where everything you do is a reaction, you don't have to think about it.
It's just the same thing.
joe rogan
For sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Those pathways get carved in.
And by the way, those pathways can be really shitty, too.
You can have a bunch of shitty pathways carved into your head.
bryan callen
Ensure your failure.
joe rogan
Ensure your failure.
Ensure your questioning yourself and also blaming a bunch of other people.
You know how people are supposed to edit?
You're supposed to edit when you make a document.
You're supposed to edit when you write a book.
You should also edit your thoughts.
You can't just let them all run wild.
You can't.
Because some of them are really impulsive and they're not well fabricated.
And if you try to defend those fucking stupid thoughts, you're going to be like what we were talking about with conspiracy theories.
bryan callen
And learn what not to listen to.
That's the other thing.
Not all fucking ideas are on the same plane.
There are a lot of people you shouldn't be listening to.
And if you want to be really good at something, find the right tutor.
There's a big difference between Rafael Cordero and, you know, if you want to learn how to kickbox or whatever, and that dude over there.
Right, right, right.
joe rogan
Yeah, if you can.
bryan callen
Well, yeah, if you have the, I mean, good guidance and tutelage is really important.
joe rogan
It is.
You know, what's interesting now is that people that don't have access to good guidance and tutelage still have access to online good guidance and tutelage.
bryan callen
I was going to say, you got the Gracie University, you got YouTube, you got Hanzo Gracie giving you a little thing.
I mean, come on.
joe rogan
Eddie Bravo has this whole system, Tenth Planet Jiu-Jitsu system.
It's all available online.
You can learn all the moves.
And if you're in a small town, Eddie has over...
I want to say, go to 10thplanetjujitsu.com, 10thplanetjj.com.
I want to say he has more than 80 students, or excuse me, more than 80 studios worldwide.
Yeah.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
I think he has more than 80 schools.
bryan callen
Wow.
joe rogan
And they put up a lot of the data of the stuff they're doing and stuff they're working on, drills and things.
A lot of it's online.
Yeah.
bryan callen
That's amazing.
joe rogan
Yeah, how many, what does it say?
Look at the fucking...
bryan callen
That's incredible, Eddie.
joe rogan
Look at the success, son.
bryan callen
Tenth planet jiu-jitsu.
joe rogan
Look at the success.
bryan callen
I hope he's charging a lot to license that.
joe rogan
He's making money, trust me.
We'll talk later.
Look at this, though.
Look at this.
This is, I mean, this is insane.
bryan callen
That's amazing.
joe rogan
He's got a crazy, a crazy number of people that follow his jiu-jitsu.
bryan callen
Maybe he is right about his conspiracy.
joe rogan
Nope, but he's definitely right about jiu-jitsu.
The chemtrail thing is another one.
He claimed that for a long time.
He'll put something up on his Instagram page.
I know why he believes that, because he doesn't believe in the government.
But my position is, I get that.
And I don't trust a lot of people either.
But you have to trust the people that are scientists that are all agreeing that if a fucking jet engine that's heated up goes through condensation in a certain atmosphere, it creates artificial clouds.
bryan callen
It's called being responsive to evidence?
joe rogan
It is.
And it's also like you can't...
You can't mock that.
It's very important if you're going to get anywhere with any of this stuff.
bryan callen
Especially when it's on your wrist and in your hand.
joe rogan
And you're going to have to figure out.
bryan callen
Especially when you're listening to it like this.
There's science, measurable science that works, right?
So the science that goes into your earphones, that goes into the vaccines and antibiotics that push you beyond your biology...
The science that gets food, fresh food in front of you, all that shit, is you're benefiting from that, and usually the science that you don't believe in is the same science you're actually using to speak into.
joe rogan
Well, yeah, that's the argument we were having yesterday, that it's so ridiculous that anybody would have an issue with the highest minds in the world deciding whether or not things are real and things are not real and what is and what isn't.
bryan callen
Well, he thinks somebody's getting paid or something.
joe rogan
It's really weird.
I don't know what he believes.
We could sit him down and talk to him about it.
But my point about all of it was that the very genius that allows him to, like, shut down jiu-jitsu attacks.
Like, he doesn't recognize jiu-jitsu attacks.
It's like, well, this is valid, too.
No, he's like, shut that shit down and move forward.
And it's one of the reasons why he's so good at jiu-jitsu.
He's so good at jiu-jitsu because he doesn't, like, recognize your attack as valid.
God, that's amazing.
He shuts that shit down.
It's really interesting.
That's amazing.
Because he's an undeniable.
Eddie Bravo is an undeniable jiu-jitsu genius.
bryan callen
You know Ivan Salvari?
unidentified
Sure.
bryan callen
Yeah, he's a great guy.
unidentified
Salvari.
bryan callen
Say his name right.
I'm sorry.
joe rogan
Have some respect.
bryan callen
Shout out to Ivan.
He gave me a lesson.
It was so awesome.
joe rogan
He's a bad motherfucker.
bryan callen
I went to Seattle in a school.
joe rogan
You know, he's the only guy in the UFC that has a submission.
I think maybe one other person might have it now.
But for the longest time, he was the only guy that had a body triangle rear mount submission where he got a guy.
He got Tony Fricklin in the...
He got his back.
Yeah.
And when you flatten somebody out and you have someone in a body triangle...
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's so fucking brutally painful that Tony Fricklin tapped.
He was the first guy ever to tap from a body triangle.
And I remember I watched him do that, and I was like, oh, wow, because I knew that that hurt.
But I didn't know if someone would tap from it in a UFC fight.
bryan callen
I was like, what?
unidentified
Whoa!
bryan callen
For a guy like me, he's probably 43, 44 now, and he said he invited me to school.
I was just so psyched, and he was going to teach me tricks and just like in-close fighting, dirty boxing.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
And he put Vaseline on me.
I was like, what's going on here?
Yeah.
joe rogan
See, he gets a body triangle.
bryan callen
Jesus Christ.
joe rogan
He's tapping for a body lock.
bryan callen
He's awesome.
joe rogan
It's so painful.
bryan callen
He's such a great guy.
Look at him.
He's from Chile.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker, and he's got a rooster tattooed on his ribs.
bryan callen
Yes, he does, and it was funny, because he came to my show, and then the next day, I got in the ring with him, and he put grease on me, and we're just doing little things with gloves, and when you, for a man like me, who's basically 170 pounds and nothing compared to...
And when you feel that a man who's been throwing bodies around his whole life and punching, and it's been his life, and he's probably about 220, maybe 230, and he's a little heavier than when he used to fight, but the strength and just the density of his body as you're fucking trying to do anything and he just moves you, he kind of shucks you around with his hips.
He's a professional fighter.
It's so humbling.
joe rogan
And he's super technical, too.
bryan callen
Oh, fuck, he's so technical.
joe rogan
Yeah, Ivan was like super, super technical.
unidentified
Did I tell you?
joe rogan
There's a picture of him and Maury Smith being held court and me with Charlie Murphy.
Charlie Murphy is explaining something called the Chicago Ridge Hand.
That's like a technique, a karate technique that people aren't using enough in MMA. He's kind of right.
A ridge hand is where you would hit someone with the side of your hand.
Do you ever know a ridge hand?
Do you ever practice that?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
It's a karate move.
You don't know about that shit.
bryan callen
No, I don't know shit.
joe rogan
Karate move is a ridge hand.
It's like this.
This is Eddie Murphy.
That's Ivan Salivari to the right of the table, and the black, bald-headed dude is Maury Smith.
unidentified
Come on.
bryan callen
You got two bad motherfuckers.
You got two killers at the table.
joe rogan
And then I'm back behind all this stuff.
I'm on this side of it.
But it was Charlie Murphy explaining Yes!
Y'all don't know shit about the Chicago Rijand.
unidentified
Look at Ivan.
bryan callen
Ivan's so cool.
joe rogan
Oh, well, Charlie was holding court.
Charlie was so funny.
Like, I don't think people that never got to hang out with Charlie ever really get to understand how funny Charlie was.
bryan callen
I heard he was a great storyteller.
joe rogan
He was an amazing storyteller.
But he just would hold court and you would let him.
You would fall to the ground laughing.
He was just a great...
He was great at, like, being the guy who told the story the best.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
And it had the...
But...
It didn't translate in a stand-up as much as it should have, and this is what I think happened.
I think he jumped into stand-up, like, way too quick and was headlining, like, really early.
Like, he didn't do, like, the whole thing like we all did, like, do the open mic night.
Oh, he didn't?
No!
Dude, he was headlining like that.
He was Charlie Murphy from The Chappelle Show.
unidentified
Oh!
bryan callen
Oh, so he hadn't done stand-up before that.
joe rogan
Yes, he had never done stand-up.
bryan callen
Can't do it.
joe rogan
So he figured out how to wait.
I mean, he did it, and he figured out, but I don't think he ever...
I think if you had allowed Charlie Murphy to develop the way we all did, from open-miker to middle-act to headliner to...
He would have been a world-class assassin.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And, you know, he died as still a very funny comedian and he was headlining all over the world.
bryan callen
Did you know he was sick when you were hanging out with him?
joe rogan
No, he was in sick when I was hanging out with him.
bryan callen
He had leukemia or some kind of strange blood thing?
joe rogan
Yeah, that all happened after I'd seen him.
I hadn't seen him in a while.
He did my podcast in like 2000, I want to say in 12, somewhere around then, maybe 13. Him and my friend Freeze Love.
bryan callen
Did you ever meet Eddie Murphy?
joe rogan
Yeah, I met Eddie in Hawaii once, just randomly.
It was funny.
It was the craziest thing ever.
Really?
It's like, he knows who I am?
unidentified
Like, this is so bizarre.
That's cool.
joe rogan
Dude, he goes, you're a funny motherfucker.
unidentified
I went, ah!
bryan callen
Get the fuck out of here.
joe rogan
He reached out and grabbed my hand.
unidentified
He gripped it.
joe rogan
He goes, you are a funny motherfucker.
bryan callen
Who was married to Whitney Houston?
joe rogan
Bobby Brown.
Bobby Brown came up to me the other day in the comedy store and told me some crazy shit.
bryan callen
Bobby Brown came up to me.
I was getting my ticket, and I was flying from...
I can't remember where.
And he came up and he goes, you're a funny dude, man.
You make me laugh a lot.
And he was shaking my hand.
I didn't realize who this was until somebody came up and said, you know who that was, right?
I go...
I don't.
And he goes, that was Bobby Brown.
I go, fuck that.
He looked familiar.
And then I sat next to him.
unidentified
Did you start singing the songs to him?
Did you?
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
He was the first dude to rock the microphone on the side of his face.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Headset, son.
Who had a headset before Bobby fucking Brown?
bryan callen
And he was dancing.
joe rogan
Who the fuck had a headset before Bobby Brown?
He was like pushing the technology.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
Right?
And then Christopher Titus started doing it on stage.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
And I said, no.
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
No.
Titus does it still, I think.
He has like a little microphone.
Does the whole thing.
Walks and talks like this.
You've done Letterman.
There he is.
Look at him.
Bobby Brown.
He's got a full-on headset, son.
bryan callen
I didn't realize how rich he was.
Is he still super rich?
Must be.
joe rogan
What am I? As an accountant?
Look at that picture of him with the headset on, though.
unidentified
Go to another picture.
bryan callen
Remember the keyboard?
joe rogan
Dude, this is like a guy, if you were trying to get your iMac fixed and you had to call India.
bryan callen
Dude, please look.
Please, please dilate on that right there.
You kidding me with that tank top?
You tuck that tank top on, and you get that jacket off your shoulders.
joe rogan
Go big.
bryan callen
By the way, that's what...
joe rogan
That's a gay porn, if I've ever seen one.
bryan callen
It sure is, and look at those awesome wristbands.
joe rogan
Why else did you have wristbands on, unless you were there to stop talking?
bryan callen
So your hands don't get all sweaty when you're...
joe rogan
No, when you have lube all over your hands, it doesn't get into your elbows.
bryan callen
You're damn right, brother.
You're damn right.
You're damn right.
Can't have blue double elbows.
joe rogan
Don't be mad.
We're just joking around.
I'm a big fan.
I'm a big fan.
My prerogative, bitch.
bryan callen
He's awesome.
joe rogan
Right?
That was a great fucking song.
He had some amazing shit.
It's a bad motherfucker.
But that does look gay.
bryan callen
By the way, I like when anybody recognizes me, I love it.
joe rogan
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
bryan callen
I'm not a cool celebrity.
joe rogan
Come on, buddy.
I'm tired of you saying this.
You're hurting my feelings.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
You're a cool celebrity.
bryan callen
Thanks, buddy.
joe rogan
If I wasn't friends with you, I'd be psyched to be friends with you.
bryan callen
I like hearing that, buddy.
That's the attitude I'm looking for out of you, young man.
joe rogan
Like, he's silly.
bryan callen
Damn right.
joe rogan
He's a good time.
I'm serious.
I'd be looking forward to hanging out with you.
bryan callen
Thanks, buddy.
joe rogan
My pleasure.
bryan callen
I appreciate it.
joe rogan
Want to talk about your dates?
Don't you have a lot of comedy dates coming up?
bryan callen
I'll be at Cobb's December 7th, 8th, and 9th, and then at the Schaumburg Improv the weekend after that, December, what, 14th, 15th, 16th?
Is this real?
joe rogan
Uh-huh.
bryan callen
Oh, and you guys...
Please go see Brendan Schaub, my brother.
joe rogan
At the Wilbur, right?
bryan callen
Wilbur in Boston.
Yeah, in Boston.
January 19th.
January 19th, Brendan Schaub, the Wilbur Theater in Boston.
Night before the UFC. Don't miss it.
He's doing good stuff and he's writing all kinds of funny shit.
joe rogan
Yeah, so people asking me if I'm doing stand-up the night before that UFC, no.
But I will be there for that UFC. But maybe I'll be hanging out with Brendan.
bryan callen
There you go.
joe rogan
I'll be hackling.
bryan callen
Maybe you'll open for them.
Maybe do a little fucking...
Maybe do a little 15 minutes.
unidentified
Don't talk a couple jokes over here.
bryan callen
Don't do a couple jokes.
We'll do a couple jokes.
I don't even know who I'm playing right now.
joe rogan
You're playing a guy, like an old sopranos type guy.
bryan callen
I'm playing a guy who's got a high voice.
You and I are at the comedy store tonight, aren't we?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
We're hanging out.
unidentified
We are hanging out.
bryan callen
Yeah, the party continues.
joe rogan
Who else is there?
bryan callen
Chris Alia, me, you, Schaub.
joe rogan
And someone else.
Someone else really funny, too.
No, quite a few.
It's like a good lineup.
Uh-huh.
It's the Sam Tripoli show.
Comedy Chaos, he calls it.
Yeah, he's got a very good lineup.
I think there's one or two other comedians on that show.
unidentified
Russell's on it.
joe rogan
Russell Peters in the house!
bryan callen
Ooh, my main man.
joe rogan
Someone else?
Felipe Esparza.
unidentified
Oh, shit!
joe rogan
Felipe's coming!
bryan callen
He's amazing.
joe rogan
He's hilarious.
Those are the other two that I was remembering.
bryan callen
That's a good lineup right there.
joe rogan
That's a great goddamn lineup.
bryan callen
Bring the stitches for your sides, you fucks!
joe rogan
There it is.
Oh, Eleanor.
Eleanor Kerrigan.
unidentified
Fuck yeah.
bryan callen
Very funny.
joe rogan
I love Eleanor.
Eleanor is one of the funniest people alive and used to be a waitress.
She was a waitress at the comedy store for years.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
And she was the girl that I would go to when someone would tell me, this guy's really funny.
I'd go, Eleanor, is that guy really funny?
And she'd go, pfft.
Fucking hack.
bryan callen
Eleanor is a wonderful human being and reminds me of the women in my family, so I have a very soft spot for her.
Because she's Italian, I think.
joe rogan
Is it a soft spot?
bryan callen
I don't know if she's Italian, but either way, I love her.
joe rogan
Oh, that's beautiful.
bryan callen
I love her too.
joe rogan
She's Irish.
Her name's Kerrigan.
bryan callen
That's true, actually.
She's Helen Kerrigan.
Isn't that her married name, though?
unidentified
No.
bryan callen
I feel like she's Italian.
Okay.
joe rogan
Nope.
Eleanor Kerrigan.
bryan callen
She's from the Italian side of Ireland.
unidentified
What?!
joe rogan
This is not real.
bryan callen
You don't know.
joe rogan
This is not real.
bryan callen
The Eleanor's an Italian man.
joe rogan
Nobody appreciates Dom Herrera more than the Irish.
bryan callen
You ever tell me what Dom Herrera said one time?
Me and Dove were talking to these young, very pretty girls upstairs in the Laugh Factory.
And he's taking a piss next to Dove and he goes, Are those girls good looking?
And Dove goes, Yeah.
You couldn't tell?
And he goes, No.
I mean, at that age, when they're that young, they can have a goat head.
I'm still attracted to her.
joe rogan
Dom Irera is a guy that's still swinging.
Like, you know, we all have this idea that a certain comedian age, like when you get into your 60s, you're not going to write new material anymore.
He's always writing.
bryan callen
Killing.
joe rogan
He's always killing.
And he's killing when he sits next to you.
He'll pull over and sit next to you and go, oh, look at you queers.
Just find a way to just say the right thing.
bryan callen
The way he tells me, he goes, I did a set, I've done really well, whatever.
And he goes, Brad, Brad, come over here.
I was like, oh, this is Brad.
I didn't know him that well.
I go, whoa, whoa, what's up, Don?
He goes, you know what I like about you as a comedian?
I was like, what?
I'm so excited.
unidentified
He goes, you don't really go for the laughs.
bryan callen
I was like, fuck off.
joe rogan
That's where he lives.
He lives in the joking with other comedians.
It's like, Dom Herrera, in my opinion, is the best guest ever on Kill Tony.
You ever see him on Kill Tony?
bryan callen
No, I'm sure he's great.
joe rogan
He's magical.
He's magical.
Like, I've done it with him.
He's magical.
bryan callen
He's so professionally funny.
joe rogan
He's so professionally funny, but also there's a bunch of comedians that he's making laugh.
Like, that's what Dom Herrera is the best at.
So it's, you know, me and him and Red Band and Tony and then the comedian who does the set and then the audience who are comedy nerds.
So it's like Dom Herrera is just coming in there fucking with six guns loaded.
Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's his...
bryan callen
He's got an arsenal.
joe rogan
Yeah, if I was Tony Hinchcliffe, I would fire everybody else.
And I would say the Kill Tony show is Dom Herrera is there, and then another guest.
Like, it's always Dom Herrera.
bryan callen
We gotta have him on The Fighter and the Kid.
unidentified
Why don't you?
bryan callen
We haven't had him in a long time.
No, a long time ago.
He couldn't make it.
I can't remember who it was.
I gotta get him on.
I fucking love him.
joe rogan
Who's your least favorite guest?
bryan callen
On The Fighter and the Kid?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
My least favorite guest?
joe rogan
Don't tell me.
bryan callen
Let's just keep this show positive.
I don't know.
I can't remember.
You know something?
joe rogan
Do you ask someone a question and I hope they don't answer?
bryan callen
Some people just kind of like just don't come to play.
joe rogan
Oh, like they don't know what they're doing?
bryan callen
They just don't come.
They might be having an off day.
If I don't pee right now, I'm going to die.
How do you not have to pee?
joe rogan
God, you're impressive.
bryan callen
I've got a huge bladder.
joe rogan
Go ahead, dude.
bryan callen
I'm going to go pee out of my huge dick and I'll be right back.
joe rogan
Jamie and I will talk about LeBron James.
bryan callen
All right, don't talk about me now.
joe rogan
Tell me.
Tell me things, Jamie.
Is there a new sneaker?
unidentified
He does have a new sneaker out.
Wow.
joe rogan
Do they have one every season?
unidentified
Yeah, he's got two different pairs.
jamie vernon
He also has his own imprint label on Nike, which is...
joe rogan
That's a baller move.
unidentified
He sponsors Ohio State.
joe rogan
That's like if Conor McGregor starts co-promoting with the UFC, like he takes it to the next level.
Did you hear anything about Connor yesterday?
unidentified
I don't know if it's rumors or not.
joe rogan
What?
jamie vernon
He got into a fight in a pub or something.
unidentified
Oh, that's terrible.
jamie vernon
I don't know if it was even accurate or not.
joe rogan
Man, that's the problem with keeping it real.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, if you want to keep it real and hang with the people, eventually someone's going to test you.
Someone like you were when you were 20. You know, maybe.
unidentified
For sure.
joe rogan
I don't know if Connor was into that.
I assume he wasn't because he's a winner.
But, man, that absolutely can happen if you want to be out there again.
Hashtag keep it real.
He's ballin', too.
Yeah, hashtag ballin'.
I mean, he's walking around with expensive watches, these beautiful David August suits on.
He wears these tailored suits everywhere.
He has these super expensive shoes and watches.
jamie vernon
How many other Lambos are driving around Ireland, too?
joe rogan
A lot.
That's a good point.
Yeah, he's balling out of control.
I wonder what it would take him, I mean, now that he had that big crazy fight at the fight where he jumped over the fence and pushed the referee, Mark Goddard, I wonder what it would take to get him back in the cage now.
I wonder if there's gonna be fines and suspensions.
I wonder what the fuck is gonna happen.
It's quite fascinating.
But I'll tell you one thing, he makes things fun.
He does.
He makes things fun with Oscar De La Hoya's hitting the heavy bag on.
He should say that he'll fight Oscar De La Hoya, but only if Oscar agrees to wear a skirt.
You gotta wear a skirt, and you gotta wear fishnet stockings, and I'll fucking fight you.
unidentified
I think there's anything still to...
I heard Roy Jones is still trying to fight Silva.
Which I don't know.
joe rogan
Is there any...
Not that it's gonna happen or anything, but like...
I hope Anderson does not take that bait.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, Roy Jones is...
I mean, you see what happened when Floyd fought Conor.
And Connor's in his prime.
And I'm not saying that Roy Jones is in his prime, but he's still very active.
He still fights.
Roy works out all the time.
And he knocked out some amateur boxer MMA fighter last year.
He had some fight.
Remember that?
There was a contest to see who gets to fight him.
He KO'd that guy with one punch.
jamie vernon
Did Anderson get suspended for his...
joe rogan
Yeah, Anderson's going to be suspended for quite a while.
Really?
Yeah, if he indeed is guilty.
Let me just preface that.
If he indeed is guilty, and they don't have any reason to believe he's not.
bryan callen
What's your...
What do you think is the move for Conor McGregor?
Should he fight Manny Pacquiao or Tony?
unidentified
A fucking bathtub made of gold and fill it with diamonds and just walk off until I get tired of doing it every day.
bryan callen
I'm crapping me jokes.
unidentified
I'd be fucking drinking.
I'd be drinking straight Irish whiskey.
bryan callen
Notorious Irish whiskey.
unidentified
I'd drink a fucking gun barrel full of Viagra.
A huge gun barrel.
bryan callen
A gun barrel.
unidentified
And I'd make my way to the pub and just start shooting rounds off.
bryan callen
That's not a bad attitude.
It's not a good Conor McGregor accent, but it's a good Lucky Charms accent.
joe rogan
I would hire the most beautiful, huge volleyball player women to just carry me everywhere.
Yeah, just get giant...
Super athlete women and just carry you everywhere.
bryan callen
Do you think he fights Tony Ferguson or does he fight Manny Pacquiao?
joe rogan
He used to be not the move, but I think Tony Ferguson, like I think Eddie Bravo had a real good point about it when he and me and Brendan talked about it.
I think Tony Ferguson is the right move as far as for the fans.
I think...
bryan callen
Over Manny?
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't think that's smart.
I think if he wants to do a boxing match, the real smart move would be fight an MMA fight and then fight a boxing match in a year.
But I think that...
The Habib Nurmagomedov fight, you've really got to see Habib fight somebody else first.
And the Nate Diaz fight, although it could be huge, Nate's not really fighting anybody right now.
What I would like right now, this is my thought, I think if Nate comes back and fights someone and wins, Conor fights someone and wins, Conor has a boxing match, they have a HUGE MMA fight after that.
FUCKING HUGE! Goddammit!
I mean, three million pay-per-view buys, huge.
Gigantic.
bryan callen
Yeah, but he's got to get through Tony Ferguson first.
joe rogan
Yes, that's the fight he's got to get through.
bryan callen
Yeah.
That's a big fight.
joe rogan
He might not even have to get through that.
If he can lose, but lose in a respectable manner.
Like lose a very close five-round decision where it's like a nail-biter, where at the end of the ring, and no!
And then Tony Ferguson drops the ground and Conor's like, fuck!
And then there's like controversy.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
I thought Conor won.
And then people, the pundits will debate it online.
If he can lose a fight like that, yes.
But if Tony lights him up, cracks him, Darce chokes him, puts him out in the first round, and then spits on his dick...
Yeah.
Yikes.
Then the Nate Diaz fight isn't worth a lot.
But if he can do that, he's so loved by Ireland that he could almost do anything.
Daniel Cormier said this to me.
We were at a fight.
It was in between while we were doing the stand-up thing.
We're like, you know, they set you up with the microphones and you give your analysis about the upcoming main event, that kind of shit.
And we're looking at each other and he goes...
He doesn't lose anything when he loses.
He goes, that's what's crazy.
He goes, he loses a fight, and the support is exactly where it is, if not more.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
He's like, I've never seen anything like it.
bryan callen
Well, I think they applaud his courage.
He's just so brave.
Like, he just puts it on the line, dude.
joe rogan
There's definitely that.
There's definitely that.
bryan callen
What he says, which is fucking crazy.
The fact that he came back and beat Nate, because I said to Brennan after I saw him lose the first time, I go, Nate's just too big for him.
He's just too big.
Came back, beat him.
And then knocks out, in the first round, knocks out Eddie Alvarez.
joe rogan
Second.
bryan callen
Second round, sorry.
joe rogan
He lit him up in the first round.
bryan callen
Unbelievable.
I was like, what the fuck?
joe rogan
I think it was the second round, wasn't it?
I want to say a second round.
I want to say he made it to the...
I want to say they were coaching him.
bryan callen
It's just fascinating, man.
It's like to see him kind of back it up.
That's what they applaud.
Just his courage and his spirit.
joe rogan
It's also...
He's a great shit talker.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
That's a big part of it.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
He's fun to listen to.
Who the fuck is that guy?
bryan callen
Look at the way he dresses.
Look at the way he dresses too, dude.
joe rogan
Second round?
Yeah.
Khabib needs to fight at 170. Well, you say that, but he's got a new nutritionist, and Cormier was telling me that he's having way less problems with his weight now.
bryan callen
He's 205!
joe rogan
No, no, no, he's not anymore.
No, that he's in the 170s now.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That he's, like, way lighter now than he's ever been any time close to a fight.
And that he'll have way less problem making weight for this fight.
They've got him on a very strict nutrition schedule now.
unidentified
Really?
Yes.
bryan callen
Because he's fighting...
joe rogan
I'm just taking the same with his teammate...
My co-worker, Daniel Cormier, tells me.
bryan callen
His training partner is Luke Rockhold.
Luke walks around at 215. I've listened to him.
I've sparred both of them.
joe rogan
It doesn't make Nurmagomedov bigger.
You understand how that works, right?
bryan callen
You're right.
Luke posted a picture of him training with Khabib, and I was like, who's the giant?
Studd.
joe rogan
He's one of the most impressive grapplers I've ever seen in MMA. His ability to take guys who are very good, like Rafael Dos Anjos, and just sort of ragdoll him.
bryan callen
Well, his wrestling is...
joe rogan
Yeah, it is.
It's stunning.
bryan callen
It's a different kind of wrestling.
joe rogan
Because I think Dos Anjos is better now than he was during that fight, but it doesn't matter.
The way he did it to him, it's like, man...
There's levels where...
It's hard to tell with MMA because striking is involved.
When striking is involved, you don't get to see the pure grappling level.
But what I was seeing, when I was seeing just pure grappling, I was seeing strength, endurance, technique.
It was just like 30%.
They're stacked up on Nurmagomedov's side.
bryan callen
If he gets a hold of you, you're not getting him off.
Nobody gets him off.
Look at the size of Khabib right there.
Now, that might be the camera angle.
joe rogan
It could be, but he's in front, but he's not cutting weight right there.
If he is, he's halfway into the game.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's a monster, man.
bryan callen
He does.
I think he does really well at 72. That's all I'm saying.
joe rogan
He posted something on his Instagram.
This is to show you why this motherfucker is so hard and why all those people from Dagestan is so hard.
He posted something on his Instagram of one of his friends who'd been tortured.
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
He posted photos of his friend who had his stomach cut open.
Yeah, he posted on his Instagram, this guy.
There's two photos.
There's this photo, and then there's the next one.
And this guy had his stomach cut open.
They were torturing him about something.
And there's a translation.
You can translate all of it.
But it has something with him saying that someone was wrongly accused.
They were trying to get him to confess.
But the point is, this is a UFC number one contender, or at least number two, in the lightweight division, one of the most talent stacked divisions in the world.
And he's posting stuff on his page about how hard...
His environment is.
bryan callen
That's where he comes from.
joe rogan
The point where people are being tortured.
When he gets in there, his mind...
I mean, you're fighting.
Literally fighting.
He calls himself the eagle.
He's like a fucking eagle.
I mean, he's fucking ferocious when he gets in there.
And he's at a level of grappling.
Like, man, he's been doing it his whole life.
Crazy.
And at an intense, super primal level.
You know, so intense, real technical, super knowledgeable about wrestling and jiu-jitsu and submissions.
bryan callen
I think Daniel said that they basically tussled for 15 minutes.
Daniel the Olympian.
joe rogan
Yeah, he said he was hand fighting with him.
He's like, whoa, shit.
He's a beast.
Never give him enough as a beast.
And when you see him get a guy like Michael Johnson down on the ground and just own him, he owned him.
And he was saying, look, I'm sorry I've got to do this to you, man.
You've got to tap.
I need my title shot.
bryan callen
Is that what he's saying?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's beating the fuck out of him, man.
He was just holding him down and pounding on him.
It was really hard for me to watch because...
One thing, I'm impressed with Michael Johnson's complete unwillingness to tap.
He just beat me up.
He beat me up.
He was fighting through it, and then he eventually got Kim Ward.
But it was just ruthless, man.
It was ruthless.
And the control that he had on him, his arm tied up and just beating the shit out of him.
I was like, wow.
There's certain positions where you see a guy so much better than a guy that the guy who's holding down is just not going to get up.
He's not going to get up.
It's a matter of time before he gets beaten into unconsciousness.
unidentified
That's right.
bryan callen
I feel that way about Jacare.
It's the same way.
When Jacare gets on top of you or gets you down, you know, unless you're Yoel Romero, we'll see you later.
joe rogan
Yeah, see how he's got his right arm tied up?
He just clamps down on his wrist and his right arm became, he became a one-arm defensive guy.
bryan callen
He's just a guy who's been fighting his whole, like wrestling his whole life.
joe rogan
So fucking strong.
unidentified
And it's details.
bryan callen
It's fucking details though.
It's where his hips are.
It's all the minutiae, the micro movements.
joe rogan
It is.
bryan callen
And he weighs, he probably feels like he weighs 300 pounds.
joe rogan
I'm sure.
bryan callen
Like those wrestlers like that, like, you know, when you tussle with a guy who's been doing it his whole life, he can tap you if you're a regular guy by putting his weight on you after a while.
You'll just tap with his shoulder.
joe rogan
Speaking of which, Ben Askren is going to be on the podcast.
I'm working it out with Ben Askren.
Going to get him out here.
Finally.
I've been a Ben Askren ball rider.
bryan callen
He's a killer.
joe rogan
For several years.
Not technically a dick rider.
bryan callen
Ball rider.
joe rogan
More of a ball rider.
bryan callen
Because the dick is so deep in you.
And now you're riding his balls?
joe rogan
It's over there.
I hold on to the balls.
I look up at the dick.
bryan callen
How much does he weigh?
Well, he fights at 170. Okay, so he's 170. I thought he was 50 or something.
joe rogan
He cuts some weight, for sure.
But I don't think he cuts a lot of weight.
I mean, he's not one of the bigger guys in the division.
He's just super technical with his wrestling.
bryan callen
Where'd he learn?
joe rogan
Well, he's a fucking serious world-class amateur wrestler.
I didn't know.
bryan callen
I thought he was just jiu-jitsu.
joe rogan
No, Ben Askren.
Pull up Ben Askren's record.
You can see his collegiate wrestling record.
He was a fucking monster, man.
How about that hair?
Powerful Missouri.
Look at that.
If you pull up his record, though, his Wikipedia record, and he does a lot of work with a lot of Duke Rufus' guys, too.
bryan callen
He's always been a corner man.
joe rogan
I've always seen him at the UFC. He just had some sort of an issue with a post-Olympic career.
What is Olympic Games?
He was in Beijing.
What did he win in the Olympics?
He lost one Any 1-1, is that what it says?
Yeah.
Phenomenal wrestler.
I mean, just phenomenal.
And he's retiring undefeated as a mixed martial artist.
He just, I think he just beat Aoki.
I think that was his main, his retirement fight.
bryan callen
Wow.
jamie vernon
He won another contest after the Olympics.
Dave Schultz Memorial International.
joe rogan
He won.
Wow.
bryan callen
Yeah, probably.
jamie vernon
He defeated a silver medalist in another tournament.
joe rogan
Interesting.
Go to his MMA career because I want to see who he just beat for his retirement fight because he just had his retirement fight.
Yeah, Shinya Aoki, who at one point in time was one of the most exciting submission guys in the world.
He's the one who fought Nick Diaz, right?
bryan callen
Didn't he get tapped out by Nick Diaz?
joe rogan
Maybe.
He used to wear tights.
bryan callen
Is he still fighting though?
You're saying that was recent?
joe rogan
Yeah, Aoki just fought Ben Askren.
bryan callen
I didn't know Ben Askren was still fighting, is what I'm saying.
joe rogan
Yeah, this was his retirement fight.
He just had it last week.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, I sent him a congratulations and I said, let's do a podcast.
bryan callen
Does he have a twin brother or am I thinking of Matt Hughes?
joe rogan
You're thinking of Matt Hughes.
Are you sure?
bryan callen
I think Ben Askren might have a twin brother too.
joe rogan
He might as well.
bryan callen
I don't know.
But let me ask you this.
How is Matt Hughes doing?
Do you know?
joe rogan
He's doing better, apparently.
They're really excited about his progress.
He was in a coma for quite a while.
Apparently what they're saying is that he thought that he could make it across the tracks, and that if he waited, the train takes like 10 minutes to go.
It's a fucking giant-ass train.
So he took a chance, and he hit some gravel.
You know what he said to me?
bryan callen
I worked with him on Warrior, and you know what he said to me?
unidentified
What?
bryan callen
He goes, I just hope I can put my shoes on.
Put my own shoes on when I'm 70. We were talking about head trauma.
He worries about it.
joe rogan
He should.
Towards the end of his career, he developed a compromised chin.
That's the best way to put it.
Doesn't your brain shut down?
Everybody does.
Chuck Liddell, who had probably one of the greatest chins of all time, he exhibited it later in his career.
He just couldn't take shots anymore.
bryan callen
Because your body goes, oh, I've been here before, see you later, and shuts down?
joe rogan
Yep.
bryan callen
Makes sense.
joe rogan
That's incredible.
And even a guy who is as just rock-solid, ferocious as Chuck Liddell, he's just a walk-through bombs.
Guys would just throw bombs on him, he'd walk through them.
At the end of his career, he could not do that anymore.
bryan callen
Yeah, it's so interesting how a lifetime of fighting makes you more fragile, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, your body's just not designed for that.
bryan callen
Brennan did an x-ray of his face, and he has microfractures all through his face.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
bryan callen
And the doctor said it's very common with fighters and football players.
unidentified
Jesus Christ.
bryan callen
Yeah, just micro, just cracks all through your mask.
joe rogan
Oh my god, of course.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You think about Brennan sparring Shane Carwin all the time, just getting mugged.
bryan callen
How about getting punched full on and having his nose shattered by Crow Cop?
joe rogan
It was an elbow, in fact.
bryan callen
Yeah.
And still coming back.
joe rogan
Blam!
bryan callen
Yeah.
Took some good shots from Big Country before he got hit behind the ear.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
If you watch that fight, boom!
joe rogan
Ben Rothwell KO'd him.
bryan callen
Boom!
joe rogan
Big Ben.
He's another guy.
What happened with him?
He got caught with something, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
Askren does not have a twin brother.
joe rogan
I know it's got a brother.
Oh, there it is.
unidentified
There you go.
joe rogan
Askren brothers.
I think one of the things that I mean when you're talking about in These the fucking athletes that we're dealing with today, you know, you're talking with like what they're experiencing I think with medical science I bet like in 50, 60 years, we're gonna be looking back and they're gonna be going, God damn, man, these people couldn't even take blah blah blah to fix their problem.
They couldn't even go to the blah blah blah machine to fix their brain.
They just had to have bad brains.
bryan callen
Remember what Robert Sapolsky said in your podcast, last thing he said, I thought it was amazing.
He says, we learn more, what do you think is gonna happen?
In like 20, 30, 40 years, we're going to go, my God, look at the way we treated people who killed and who did things that were impulsive.
Their brains were just fucked up, and we didn't know how to fix them.
joe rogan
Well, not just that.
He was not just talking about their brains being fucked up.
He was saying that the idea of free will is a ridiculous concept that's ingrained in the psyche of the American people in particular.
bryan callen
Well, it's a Christian idea.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it's also that you, as a scientist, the way he looks at things, I mean, he's boiling things down to the fucking, the very atomic level.
And he's essentially saying that your behavior has been determined by your environment, by your genes, by the experiences that you've had, by all the things that you've learned.
bryan callen
Your prefrontal cortex may not be developed because you grew up poor and under a lot of stress.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Yes, yes.
bryan callen
So you make impulsive decisions.
joe rogan
Lack of nutrition.
bryan callen
The guy who kidnapped that girl I was talking about, the young girl had two kids with her when she was 13 for 18 years.
His father said that he had a motorcycle accident.
He was a normal kid, and then he had a motorcycle accident.
He was never the same.
His whole personality changed.
joe rogan
That's the Kinnison story.
Kinnison got hit by a truck.
bryan callen
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
Kinnison was one kid.
Sam Kinnison got hit by a truck, and then he's like, oh, oh!
Woo!
unidentified
Fucking yeah!
Wow.
joe rogan
Fat gut kicking over fucking bar stools.
bryan callen
Do you know what else changes your personality they say sometimes, which is fascinating?
joe rogan
Jerking off in your own mouth.
bryan callen
Almost.
unidentified
Almost.
bryan callen
That would be traumatic.
joe rogan
I heard that changes your personality.
bryan callen
That would be traumatic.
For a little bit it does until you end up liking it.
But here's what really changes.
You're having a heart operation.
joe rogan
Oh, that makes sense.
bryan callen
That's so weird though.
You can have an operation on your heart and it changes your whole personality.
joe rogan
Well, there's one thing about that, that Dr. Mark Gordon, you know Mark Gordon, he actually did a paper on post-traumatic surgeries, like open-heart surgeries, and the effect it has on depression and perhaps suppression of your body's ability to produce hormones.
bryan callen
There you go.
joe rogan
There's something about being under anesthesia for long periods of time with very complicated operations that leaves people uniquely depressed afterwards.
bryan callen
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, and he was telling me about this after the whole Robin Williams things happened, because Robin Williams got sick, he had a heart condition, he had heart surgery, and then he eventually wound up committing suicide.
And he's like, I'm not saying it's the reason why Robin Williams did that, but there is absolutely some connection between this compromised hormonal system and depression, and between a compromised hormonal system and long operations while under anesthesia.
And I was like, wow.
bryan callen
Haven't you had a lot of guys on about the gut biome?
joe rogan
Oh yeah.
bryan callen
And how that affects your mood?
joe rogan
Dude, from having people on, from having Chris Kresser on the last time he was on, I changed, I'm eating like four cans of kimchi a week.
bryan callen
Oh really?
joe rogan
Big ass cans, man.
I'm eating fermented cabbage.
bryan callen
Of course, because you're an extremist.
Do you have to eat that much?
unidentified
Crazy!
bryan callen
I know, but listen to me.
Look at me right now.
Just because fucking kimchi is good for you doesn't mean you have to eat that much, bro.
I eat it all the time, dude.
You're the extreme.
Can you have a little bit like the way the Koreans do?
joe rogan
I feel pretty good.
bryan callen
I know, but fucking the guy.
joe rogan
I think it's working.
bryan callen
He gets a piece of information and he'll just eat like a fucking...
unidentified
Run with it.
bryan callen
I'm eating bowls of kimchi.
I play this video game for 15 hours.
I fainted.
I fainted.
joe rogan
I never do that.
But I have bone broth and kimchi for breakfast.
bryan callen
Of course you do.
Of course you do.
joe rogan
And I put habanero sauce in the bone broth.
bryan callen
What a surprise.
joe rogan
I sweat.
Beads of sweat coming off my bald head.
It's pouring down.
And I'm eating spicy kimchi and I'm drinking spicy bone broth.
bryan callen
You're an extremist.
Yeah.
Good.
He wants to live forever.
joe rogan
No, no, no, no.
bryan callen
He's in love with immortality, I told you.
joe rogan
No, no, it's not immortality.
It's just right now, until the lights go off, this motherfucker's going good.
bryan callen
I'm going to be dead someday, so here we go.
joe rogan
This engine is purring.
I'm cornering.
Everything's good.
bryan callen
Listen, man, if you think I didn't have a long conversation with Mr. Justin Dees, who is Phil Heath's trainer, was, and he's a Mr. Olympia guy.
He trains all those guys.
I talked to him for a long...
I cut to the chase.
I go, Phil, listen to me.
I mean Justin, not Phil.
Justin Dees.
I go, Justin, right now, came to my show on Salt Lake.
I go, and his beautiful wife, Heather Dees, is number four in the Olympia.
joe rogan
She'd kill you?
bryan callen
She looks amazing.
And I went, hey, bro, let's cut to the chase.
You know everything about nutrition and everything about weightlifting.
There's no doubt about how to build muscle.
He's a fucking genius.
Talk to me about TRT, because I'm 50, and it's getting to a point where I'm going to have to start shooting myself up.
We had a long talk.
Don't worry about it.
The point is, I'll be seeing a doctor.
Fairly soon.
unidentified
Wow, look at her.
bryan callen
Do you guys see me really muscular?
unidentified
Can you handle that?
joe rogan
No.
Let me say no.
You don't bench enough for her.
bryan callen
I'm not afraid.
joe rogan
You don't bench enough.
First of all, she's got a boyfriend or other.
bryan callen
She's got a husband.
Yeah, so I wouldn't even talk about it.
joe rogan
Giant man.
bryan callen
He's a very thick man.
unidentified
Drop it.
joe rogan
Just drop it, Callan.
bryan callen
Have some respect.
Sorry, man.
joe rogan
Jamie's pulling up pictures of her ass!
bryan callen
Hey bro, I wasn't looking.
I was just looking at her back.
unidentified
She's being judged on it.
bryan callen
I'm looking at her back.
joe rogan
Whatever, bro.
bryan callen
I'm looking at her back.
joe rogan
Just because someone else buys slaves doesn't mean you have to.
bryan callen
You son of a bitch.
joe rogan
Son of a bitch.
bryan callen
Probably into orcas too, being in pools.
joe rogan
This, what we just highlighted, is the real problem with the social justice warrior movement, is they eat their own to try to take away any sort of blame on themselves.
bryan callen
I just think the left, the illiberal left, has lost their sense of humor.
You can't even be funny.
You can't say anything.
joe rogan
I predict that this is the inevitable demise of a vast majority of the colleges in this country.
bryan callen
I agree.
joe rogan
And that people are eventually going to learn how to form communities and learn online.
Why?
bryan callen
You know Jonathan Haidt?
He's creating the Heterodox Academy.
You know about this?
No.
Sounds like a scam.
Jonathan Haidt, I can't believe you haven't had him on this podcast.
He's a giant.
He wrote The Happiness Hypothesis.
joe rogan
Will he fit in this room?
bryan callen
Yes.
His brain might not, though.
And he basically is at Columbia University, and he was like, this place, you got fucking students that can report you blindly, and you get called up in front of a whatever.
For cultural appropriation.
It's 17 to 1 usually, like 17 hardcore liberal sort of leftists and one conservative to these colleges like Brown and Columbia.
And he said this is orthodox thinking.
It's so bad that they've created safe spaces where you're not even allowed to hear the other side because it might be violent.
It's important.
It might be too much.
What's his name?
Jonathan Haidt.
H-A-I-D-T. You have to have him on.
There he is.
He's a genius and he's awesome in every way.
And he's so important as a thinker.
He's one of the more influential thinkers in the past 30 years.
Yes.
Basically proving that intuition and that your feelings control so much of your thinking.
He's a fucking genius.
A social scientist.
Anyway, that's my shout out to Jonathan Haidt.
I'm glad I had a chance to talk about him.
joe rogan
Powerful shout out to Jonathan Haidt.
bryan callen
Yeah.
But he created the Heterodox Academy.
He's like, this orthodox thinking...
Is fucking, you know, is not good for anybody.
joe rogan
It's, again, what we talked about earlier.
It's people being tribal.
IDSX. We need IDSX. Do you remember that thing at University of Missouri where that woman, that guy was an Asian young student photographer, and this woman came over and she was yelling at him to stop taking photographs because they had created a safe space?
unidentified
Ah.
joe rogan
And then she said, can I get some muscle over here to take this photographer out?
He's like, this is like the First Amendment.
He's like, I need freedom of speech, freedom of the press.
I'm taking photographs.
There's an event that's happening on public property here.
I'm a part of the school.
I'm being hired to do this.
bryan callen
Because she's infantilizing them.
joe rogan
She's a woman.
bryan callen
She's protecting them.
joe rogan
She's not even a child.
It's her child.
She's a professor in training.
bryan callen
Yeah, because anybody who disagrees, look at her.
She looks like a fanatic.
unidentified
You need to get out.
I actually don't.
All right.
Hey, who wants to help me get this reporter out of here?
joe rogan
I need some muscle over here.
So crazy.
bryan callen
She's not very smart.
joe rogan
Well, she got caught up in the moment.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, I mean, that's really what it is more than anything.
She probably thought she could get away with doing that.
She didn't realize how crazy it would seem on camera saying, I've got some, I need to get some muscle over here to get a reporter out.
bryan callen
So she's thinking the same way those that are intolerant are thinking, right?
She's the same methodology.
Her brain works the same way.
You're in the way.
I'm going to get you out of the way.
ISIS goes, you're not a believer.
No point in trying to convert you.
I'm going to shoot your head off because it's the same mentality.
joe rogan
You're totally right.
You're totally right.
bryan callen
Same methodology.
joe rogan
Yeah, and it's also like she's in a heightened state, right?
She's in a combat state.
She's immediately argumentative.
The guy's got a camera on her.
bryan callen
Because anybody who disagrees with her is rooted in evil and falsehood.
joe rogan
The enemy.
You're racist, sexist, xenophobic, transphobic.
bryan callen
And when you hit somebody with racism, and you go, you're racist or sexist, what you do is you shut down the whole debate.
Because you're just labeled this very complex human being with all kinds of emotions.
Some days I'm having a moment I fucking hate everybody.
Other days I love everybody.
joe rogan
Well, if you hate everybody, then you hate black people, then you're racist.
bryan callen
I hate them all.
But if I'm listening to Andrew Day, if I'm listening to Andrew Day, I care about terrorists and their mothers and everything.
It depends.
We all have moments.
But when you brand somebody, what we do is we go, you're a racist.
You said one thing, so you're a racist.
Now, I'm going to inflate that.
I'm going to blow that up like a big balloon and fucking strap it to your face and you are out of the conversation, bro.
joe rogan
Forever.
bryan callen
You're done.
joe rogan
Forever, bro.
Because you're my competition.
That's right.
bryan callen
That's right.
And your ideas, your ideas might be threatening to me.
More important, they're actually, they create violence towards me.
Therefore, I need to save space.
Oh, and by the way, I have all the answers.
My side is rooted in the truth and love.
joe rogan
Plus, crabs in a bucket.
Trying to push those other crabs down so I can make my way to the tippity-tippity top.
bryan callen
I love crab metaphors, goddammit!
joe rogan
Best way to do it is to call other people racist.
bryan callen
That's it.
joe rogan
And everybody's like, what?
Me?
What?
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
You immediately get people on their heel.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
And we're not racist.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
Yep.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
You sexist?
Me?
What did I say?
bryan callen
We're not racist or sexist, we're tribal.
joe rogan
You think there's a biological basis to sex and that is patriarchal in and of itself.
unidentified
There's no biological basis for sex.
bryan callen
Not hormones, not XY chromosomes, not a uterus.
joe rogan
People are saying that unironically in 2017. I know.
They're saying it on a regular basis.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Yep.
Yep.
It's one of the Jordan Peterson discussions that he had with some...
I don't know if it was a man who became a woman or a woman who became a man, but she was a professor.
bryan callen
Oh, I saw...
A professor of medicine?
joe rogan
No, professor at the University of Toronto.
A professor in, like, transgender studies or some shit.
bryan callen
Oh, I saw the debate.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was...
Hilarious debate.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
She's saying there's no sexual or bio...
bryan callen
She said there's no difference between...
It's a very popular misconception to think that there is a difference between male and female.
It doesn't exist.
joe rogan
There was no biological basis for gender.
unidentified
Like, but?
joe rogan
Okay.
unidentified
But?
If you go to the puppy store and you say, I want a boy puppy, and they give you a girl puppy, what do you say?
You say, well, there's no biological basis for gender.
bryan callen
How about the power lifter?
The power lifter that became a woman and was a competitive power lifter as a man.
joe rogan
Let me stop you right there because she is a woman.
She's always been a woman.
bryan callen
Sorry.
joe rogan
Don't be a piece of shit.
bryan callen
No, she's a woman now.
joe rogan
No, no, no.
She's always been a woman.
Just now she gets to express herself in the most unique way.
bryan callen
I see.
joe rogan
Not unique.
bryan callen
So before when she was, even though she had an XY chromosome on her dick and she was competing in men's division, she was still a woman?
joe rogan
This is so transphobic.
I can barely handle this.
bryan callen
I just asked a question, man!
joe rogan
She is her authentic self.
bryan callen
Do you get a lot of shit for your, when you talk this way from- Only by people that are retarded.
Yeah, exactly.
I feel like most transgender people would be very reasonable and not be.
joe rogan
I had a bunch of transgender people come to see me at the Ice House the other day.
They all gave me hugs.
They were super sweet.
bryan callen
I love that.
joe rogan
They said, the trans community loves you.
I go, I love you guys.
There's a lot of trans people, by the way, that were upset at the whole Bruce Jenner, Caitlyn Jenner fiasco.
They're like, look, this is not who we are.
You just want more attention.
Hey, hey, you're a Kardashian.
bryan callen
Exactly.
joe rogan
Big old male Kardashian became a chick.
Settle down.
You know, there's a lot of people that felt sort of like, also when they found out that Bruce Jenner then became Caitlyn Jenner and then after that didn't believe in gay marriage.
unidentified
Okay!
bryan callen
So fucking weird.
Maybe you're just crazy.
joe rogan
You can be a boy who wants to be a girl, or a girl who wants to be a boy, but it doesn't mean you're smart.
It doesn't mean you're smart.
And that's a problem.
That's a problem.
And if you're an intelligent person who's in the transgender community, you don't want that as your ultimate representation.
You just don't.
You don't want someone who's got that much of a contradiction where they...
And they asked him about it.
One of the most crazy things he said is like, well, I've always been a traditionalist.
Like, what?
bryan callen
What?
joe rogan
You're not traditionalist.
You're a man who became a woman.
That's not traditional.
You don't believe in gay marriage.
That's even dumber.
Because what you're talking about, you're changing biology.
And you're saying that some man-made bullshit fucking thing called marriage.
That guys shouldn't be able to do it if they love each other, but you should be able to be a girl.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
Shut the fuck up.
That makes me angry.
unidentified
It's so weird.
joe rogan
You're making me angry.
bryan callen
It's so bizarre.
I end up rubbing my eyes because I don't know how to respond to insanity.
joe rogan
It's the only time I've ever seen Ellen go after somebody.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Ellen had Caitlyn Jenner on her show and she actually went after her.
And notice how I said her.
I'm not misgendering because I'm a good person.
bryan callen
Yeah, you are.
joe rogan
I'll vote Democrat if it works.
bryan callen
Strange.
Remember I said that on the podcast?
You were like, bullshit.
I was like, I'd heard it.
joe rogan
Yeah, you called it way before anybody knew.
bryan callen
I just heard it.
That's because I heard it from a reliable source.
joe rogan
And you called it, like, I want to say a year and a half early.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
Yes, because I knew he was already starting to feminize, feminize his looks.
Also, his kids go to a school and he would show up in bracelets and they were like, what's going on?
His hair would be in a barrette.
joe rogan
Dude, you and I need to get press credentials.
What is this?
Feminism site Medusa Magazine shuts down after founder admits it was pure satire.
bryan callen
No way!
Oh my god.
unidentified
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Don't gender your pets.
It was pure satire the whole time.
Oh, you beautiful people.
Thank you.
I'm going to tweet that as soon as this podcast is over.
bryan callen
You guys are beautiful.
joe rogan
Thank you for being you.
Thank you for fighting the good fight.
Resist.
That's the real resist.
Keith Olbermann, I get what you're doing, but the real resist is to fight the nonsense.
bryan callen
Fight the nonsense with humor.
You know what Michelangelo said in my favorite quote?
Criticized by creating.
joe rogan
I got a new show for you and me.
bryan callen
What?
joe rogan
You and me.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
We go to places.
We get high as fuck.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
We become journalists.
We get high as fuck.
bryan callen
But then I don't say anything.
I forget everything.
unidentified
No, no, no.
joe rogan
You're doing it just like this.
Okay, you don't get high as fuck.
I get high as fuck.
You take one hit.
bryan callen
Okay, I take one hit.
joe rogan
We go to places as journalists and we interview people.
Whether it's we go to like a Republican correspondence dinner or a Democratic convention.
We go and just you and I. Okay.
But drunk and high.
And we interview these people and we mock this whole thing.
We get a view of like how crazy the frenzy is the center of the hive.
For control of the queen!
Watch those fucking crazy assholes.
bryan callen
We call it the center of the hive.
joe rogan
Freak party worldwide.
That's what we call it.
unidentified
Freak party.
joe rogan
Freak party worldwide.
We're not Democrats.
We're not Republicans.
bryan callen
Freak party worldwide.
joe rogan
Freak party worldwide.
bryan callen
I'm in.
joe rogan
And we go.
bryan callen
I'm in.
joe rogan
I'm dead serious about this.
I say we get Netflix to do this.
bryan callen
Alright.
joe rogan
And we just fucking travel.
bryan callen
I'll do it in a heartbeat.
joe rogan
Yeah.
We get one dude to film us that can keep his mouth shut.
And we...
bryan callen
Well, we never see each other.
I always complain about it on the podcast.
I'm like, I never see Rogan.
unidentified
So let's do it.
bryan callen
I sulk about it.
I'm like, ah, he's hunting without me.
unidentified
I know, I say it too.
joe rogan
I say it too.
bryan callen
Well, I got obsessed with hunting.
We're supposed to.
I know, but you're boy hunting.
I have a fucking bow, bro.
joe rogan
I know.
I've got a problem, though.
I've got a hunting problem.
bryan callen
No, no, no.
Oh, really?
Kimchi and fucking hunting.
You mean you're an extreme with both?
unidentified
Yep.
bryan callen
I've never seen that before from you.
joe rogan
No, well, this is, you know, I'm out there every day shooting out a rubber deer.
bryan callen
Are you?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a real problem.
I got golf elbow.
You're the greatest in my arm from pulling my bow back too much.
Yeah, I get stem cell shots.
Yeah, I'm going crazy.
I had a good time, though.
Fucking wonderful time.
bryan callen
I do that with fucking boxing.
Sean gets mad at me for sparring, but I just love it so much.
joe rogan
Let it ride, bitch.
Let it ride.
I'm with you.
Let it ride.
Yeah.
bryan callen
Did you see that where Luke Rockhold punched me in the fucking nose?
joe rogan
Yeah, don't let him do that.
bryan callen
And then I had to go get makeup.
What?
Dude, my nose was so black and blue.
I'm at the fucking San Jose Improv.
That's hilarious.
I gotta take pictures of it.
This is ridiculous.
I couldn't cover it.
It was black and blue.
joe rogan
Why'd you let him punch you?
bryan callen
I didn't.
It wasn't like, hey, Luke.
Obviously, he threw me headgear, and I go, hey, Luke, listen to me right now.
I'm a gazelle right now, and there are a bunch of lions out there.
Let those people know, like all those guys training, that I'm a bitch, that I'm an actor at 50, and I dance around a gym.
joe rogan
How bad did it hit you?
bryan callen
I spar because I do it with people who are an athletic.
Yeah, but it was way worse than that.
What's that?
joe rogan
What did he hit you with?
bryan callen
He punched me with his fucking glove right in the nose.
That's when it was...
It wasn't even...
It got purple, okay?
joe rogan
Yeah, but why do you think it's cute to fight professionals, dumbass?
bryan callen
Well, first of all, I didn't want to.
I thought I was going to hit mitts.
And he throws me headgear, and I go, I don't want to do this.
And Daniel Cormier goes, I got him first!
And Cormier double-legs me.
And look at that.
Look at that stupid nose I've got to take pictures with.
It was ridiculous.
It didn't work.
joe rogan
You should just stick to just straight boxing where you could school them with your skills.
bryan callen
Oh yeah, you know me.
I'll fucking slip those jabs.
joe rogan
That's one of the worst things.
Why don't you get involved in jiu-jitsu?
That way you don't have to get hit.
bryan callen
I'm going to.
I miss wrestling.
I miss mat work.
I really do.
joe rogan
When you first started doing jiu-jitsu, way back when we were at Carlson Gracie's place, you took to it right away.
bryan callen
Yeah, because I was a wrestler.
joe rogan
And it was like, oh, this is fun.
bryan callen
I trained with Hensou for a year.
I love Jiu Jitsu.
I love it, love it.
I like boxing, though.
I really like...
joe rogan
It's fun.
bryan callen
It's such a challenge to me.
Obviously, Jiu Jitsu is a whole world, and it's really difficult, but there's something about boxing at my age I guess I like because it's...
I guess it's just such a mystery.
It's such a mystery to me.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, you're learning a skill and...
Patterns.
Yeah, and on top of that, you're also working out.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
That's one of the fun things.
If you can find a sport, like here's a good one, soccer.
If you play soccer, you're going to fucking run around a lot.
bryan callen
A lot.
But you're also going to fuck your knees up.
unidentified
You're going to fuck your knees up.
bryan callen
And I'm too old.
But boxing, actually, you stay pretty injury-free, believe it or not.
Except your brain.
Yeah, but you wear headgear.
You don't go crazy on each other.
I'm not fucking fighting.
You know where you get hurt?
When you spar dudes who don't box, and they swing for the fences, and they catch you.
If you fight dudes that are really good, like I'll spar sometimes.
The great Wayne McCulloch, I'll spar with him sometimes.
I'll get in there.
Wayne at 44 is going to do whatever he wants, even though he's 135 pounds.
But we're moving around.
He'll hit me, but he's not going crazy.
joe rogan
Exactly, exactly.
That's the best in jiu-jitsu, too.
You get less hurt when you spar with someone who's really good.
bryan callen
Correct.
joe rogan
You don't win.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
You're gonna get tapped a lot, but you won't get hurt.
He'll just control you.
bryan callen
And you learn patterns, and then pretty soon you learn these patterns, you start practicing, then you go against a guy who doesn't box a lot, and you look good.
joe rogan
Like you know what you're doing.
bryan callen
Yeah, and he goes, dude, you've been doing it a long time, and you're like, yeah, I'm fucking nothing.
Yeah, right.
I look good.
joe rogan
You see my left.
bryan callen
What's funny is anybody can learn how to hit mitts.
It's where you're punching from.
How are you setting that up?
And how are you not getting hit?
joe rogan
Yeah, and what happens when you get hit to the body?
unidentified
Dude, that's the worst.
bryan callen
That is the fucking worst.
joe rogan
That's why kickboxing is so much more terrifying.
And Muay Thai, you watch dudes getting kneed in the body.
bryan callen
No thanks.
joe rogan
I was watching John Wayne Parr's, he had a video up on his Instagram of him fighting when he was 17. God.
The first title that he won.
John Wayne Parr's like 44. No, John Wayne Parr's my boyfriend.
bryan callen
He's 40 now, I think.
joe rogan
41. He's 41. And still going after it.
But watching a video of him from when he was 17 years old, kneeing some dude in the body, he's like, Punches and knees.
bryan callen
I don't have time to condition my shins.
joe rogan
This is him.
17, man.
Isn't that crazy?
1993. John Wayne Parr.
Crazy.
Look at those knees and the body, son.
bryan callen
Is that him in the red?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
John Wayne Parr's a fucking savage.
Boom, boom, boom.
bryan callen
He's a real fighter, man.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a crazy way to express yourself, you know, but you really get to see a person's character in a fight.
100%.
That's the thing that makes it so crazy.
100%.
It's this wild melee of bones and flesh, and you get to see how bright your star shines.
bryan callen
It's also really awesome to learn defense and learn how to get out of the way.
Learn how to block.
Keep your eyes open when somebody's kicking and stuff.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Problem solving.
How to figure out what to do when.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
When the issues are.
unidentified
Oh, boom.
joe rogan
That's it.
bryan callen
By the way, I shouldn't, but just so everybody knows, I didn't spar with Luke Rockhold and Daniel Cameron.
joe rogan
He just punched you in the face.
bryan callen
I got to move around and they were really nice to me and they moved me around at will.
So let's not, I hate when people like me say I sparred with so-and-so.
No, you didn't spar.
You didn't spar with them.
joe rogan
Because they beat the fuck out of you.
bryan callen
The fucking, yes.
You moved around with them and they were being cool and you got to throw some shit and do some stuff that you've learned and giggle.
Yeah, relax.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
If I had opened up with my Taekwondo, they'd be some...
Yeah.
joe rogan
What if you did like one of them Bruce Lee moves?
bryan callen
Dude, my wheel kick?
You want no fucking part of that shit.
I've seen it, dude.
joe rogan
I've seen it like, sort of like when that...
bryan callen
Not in the air, you haven't!
Not in the fucking air!
joe rogan
You know, Ty Cobb could read the letters on the...
I could see your kick coming a mile away, bitch.
bryan callen
You could read...
unidentified
You could read...
bryan callen
You could read my...
The label on my underwear.
joe rogan
Well, Brian Callen, it's 5 p.m.
I say we wrap this bitch up.
bryan callen
This was a pleasure, my brother.
joe rogan
We need to do this more often.
bryan callen
I love you.
joe rogan
I know we've said this before.
bryan callen
I miss you.
I don't see you enough.
It hurts my feelings.
My feelings are a little hurt.
joe rogan
Hey, we're hanging out in a couple hours.
bryan callen
We're going to be in the comedy store tonight.
For the record, my feelings are hurt.
joe rogan
Mine aren't hurt, too.
It's not my fault.
Shit, you're busy, too, bitch.
We're both busy.
bryan callen
We are busy.
joe rogan
It was really fun, though.
It was awesome.
Brian Cowen, ladies and gentlemen.
Come see me at Cobbs.
bryan callen
Cobbs?
Cobbs when?
Cobbs, December 7, 8, 9. Good lord.
Then the following weekend, Schaumburg Improv, you bastard.
December 14, 15, 16, whatever.
joe rogan
Plan ahead.
bryan callen
Yep, and by the way, go see Brennan Schaub at the Wilbur Theatre, please.
January 19th.
Sell that bitch out.
joe rogan
December.
December 19th.
No, January.
bryan callen
January 19th.
joe rogan
January 19th.
January 19th, day before the UFC. I'll be there hanging out with him.
All right, you fucks.
We love you.
Bye.
bryan callen
That was awesome.
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