Oct. 30, 2017 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:39:50
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
Welcome back to Civilization, Jamie Kilstein. | |
| Hi. | ||
| Dude, so a lot has changed since the last time we spoke. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And for people who don't know, you used to be the host of, or one of the co-hosts of Citizen Radio, like super progressive, lefty podcast, and you were a vegan... | ||
| But now you ate a steak with Stanhope. | ||
| All hell's broken loose. | ||
| I don't know what's happening. | ||
| I don't know where I am. | ||
| I remember I was thinking about being back in the studio, and I never met Jamie before. | ||
| And I was like, all right, everyone's being really nice to me. | ||
| I literally feel like I'm like, this isn't a trick. | ||
| Joe sent me very nice emails, and I'm like, but I'm a very trickable guy. | ||
| And I came in, and yeah, everyone's just lovely and nice. | ||
| Yeah, man. | ||
| A lot changed. | ||
| I went into hiding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I went into hiding. | |
| What happened? | ||
| Because I only got a peripheral story of what went sideways. | ||
| Some people, girls accused you. | ||
| Well, yeah. | ||
| Look, this is the fucking worst time for me to be like... | ||
| You know what? | ||
| Now that everyone's talking about Weinstein, it's time for Kielstein to make his return. | ||
| Weinstein, Kielstein. | ||
| It's too similar. | ||
| I like Rodstein. | ||
| Yeah, it's very, like, Jew-y and predatory. | ||
| When I wrote Stanhope, when the Weinstein thing happened, I was like, hey, man, you want to, like, push off this return? | ||
| He's like, you're fine. | ||
| Yeah, so here's what happened. | ||
| So it kind of started where I was a comic for years, and as it got more progressive, it got more into that... | ||
| Judgmental territory, I guess where you know, I feel like I definitely became one of those people who would just be on Twitter all day and Instead of sort of talking about real issues It just becomes like who are we mad at that day? | ||
| Like who used the wrong word that day? | ||
| Who can we get fired that day? | ||
| Yeah, and it's Twitter mob stuff and it happens on the right and happens on the left It's just like kind of just people who are sad who just live like in their box Which I was like one of them, right? | ||
| That's why I think this is such an important conversation because Because you've kind of stepped away from it and you see it for what it is, I think people don't realize it when they're caught up in the swirl of it, the momentum of it, that it's almost like a natural human behavior pattern. | ||
| It's very tribal. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it's tribal and it's physically addictive. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I've gone back and forth with drinking and not drinking and pot and not smoking pot. | ||
| And I can tell you that the thing I was addicted to the most was Twitter. | ||
| It was refreshing Twitter. | ||
| It was like you literally get dopamine hits from that. | ||
| I remember when I first tried to get off Twitter, I was fighting with some fucking stranger in my living room on Twitter. | ||
| And I was like, you know what? | ||
| Fuck this. | ||
| I'm gonna go take a walk. | ||
| I don't need to be involved in this guy's life. | ||
| I closed it. | ||
| And before I even knew it, I'm walking in the park, fighting with some other guy on my fucking phone. | ||
| And I'm like, it follows you. | ||
| If someone's calling you a cunt, they're calling you a cunt at dinner with your girlfriend. | ||
| They're calling you a cunt when you go to your brother's graduation. | ||
| And you're just refreshing it, waiting for someone to tell you that you're good. | ||
| And sort of, so that... | ||
| I got addicted to that more than anything, and especially when I finally got an audience with the left of left. | ||
| I mean, just to be very clear, it's not like I'm going to come on this show and suddenly do a fucking Shawn Michaels heel turn and be like, I'm Johnny Rape joke. | ||
| Those fucking bitches all had it coming. | ||
| You're just being a person. | ||
| Well, and that's what I, like, wasn't doing for a very long time, is I feel like... | ||
| I don't want to speak for people, but I feel like with me, I always needed something to, like, define me, right? | ||
| Where it's like, I'm a progressive, or I'm a vegan, or I'm just jiu-jitsu. | ||
| And whatever I would become kind of currently obsessed with, I would sort of, like, throw the other shit away. | ||
| And kind of, like, shit all over that. | ||
| Because, you know, a lot of times I would feel like a failure. | ||
| Like, that's really where the... | ||
| I mean, I still hold a lot of progressive ideas, but that's when I went from comic to political. | ||
| It wasn't that I like... | ||
| I wanted to make comedy my, like, nemesis, right? | ||
| It was that, oh, I feel like I failed. | ||
| You know, I dropped out of school to start comedy at, like, 17. And I did the things you're supposed to do. | ||
| And, yeah, I did Montreal a couple times and Conan once. | ||
| And I had this year where it seemed like things were going to happen. | ||
| And then, you know, I was kind of that guy that people were like, oh, we like you. | ||
| We can't do anything with you, but we like you. | ||
| And so I started to kind of make my own audience. | ||
| And the audience was fucking great. | ||
| It was like a bunch of, you know, when that show started, it was a bunch of just weird... | ||
| Sweet, nerdy comedy fans. | ||
| And then everything just started getting pushed to crazyville. | ||
| Like when I knew shit, I said this on Doug's podcast, when I knew shit got nuts is when I was defending a trans person. | ||
| So already like a left issue, like I'm doing the right thing, right? | ||
| And I called this transphobic guy an idiot. | ||
| And we get an email that said, while we appreciate you using, defending trans people, the word idiot is ableist. | ||
| And I want it to be like, you're retarded. | ||
| You're a retarded cunt. | ||
| Explain ableist for people. | ||
| Ableist is making fun of people who- I don't know! | ||
| I don't know what it means anymore. | ||
| I thought ableist was just like, that guy's in a wheelchair. | ||
| Fuck him. | ||
| But I guess like all these different terms, these everyday terms, like I guess idiot is ableist because fucking, I don't know, there was an idiot in a wheelchair? | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| It's ableist because if you're not an idiot, if your brain works well, you're mocking someone whose brain doesn't work well, they are not able to think correct. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| So you're an ableist. | ||
| Joe, you just out-progressived me. | ||
| Well, I'm pretty progressive, believe it or not. | ||
| I look like a meathead, and I espouse some right-wing ideas. | ||
| But when it comes to social issues, I'm very progressive. | ||
| That's why we became friends. | ||
| You saw a gay rights thing I did on Twitter. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's why. | ||
| But what I saw happening with you, and what I see happening just in general online, I mean, I was on Citizens Radio when you guys first started. | ||
| Yeah, you were on our poster. | ||
| Yeah, but I think there's something that happened where people, around the time of Occupy Wall Street, things got really heated up. | ||
| And people started moving way left, and then some folks started moving way right. | ||
| And I really, truly believe to this day, the way left is what started the whole Trump movement. | ||
| It's in response to the way left. | ||
| I think all these shitheads got together and they didn't like... | ||
| Being accused of being assholes or ableists or rapists or whatever it is by the ultra-progressives. | ||
| So they went far right and alt-right. | ||
| I mean, the alt-right essentially was people who didn't identify with these old men who were bankers, but they also didn't want to have anything to do with these ultra-lefty progressives that were calling everyone a racist, everyone a rapist, every man's a piece of shit. | ||
| Oh, I did all of that. | ||
| I straight up did all that. | ||
| And I think one of the things with the ultra-left, and maybe this is me desperately trying to defend myself, but I think in a weird way, it was harder for me and it's harder for a lot of people to see themselves slipping into the extreme left. | ||
| And so what I mean by that is I never thought... | ||
| When I heard people say the extreme right is as bad as the extreme left, I was always like, fuck you. | ||
| Because, like, the extreme left isn't, like, bombing Palestine, being like, give us free healthcare, or, like, let trans people piss in the right bathroom. | ||
| Like, you know, even that, like, the shooter, not in Vegas, but that DC shooter. | ||
| Like... | ||
| He was like a fucking crazy guy. | ||
| He wasn't – ableist, I'm sorry. | ||
| He wasn't like shooting the politicians screaming like – I mean he liked the Bernie Sanders page, but it wasn't like we are launching wars against Islam for Christianity. | ||
| It wasn't – We're doing this for free market capitalism. | ||
| It was, to me, the extreme left when I heard people say it, and the reason I would scoff when someone like you would say it is because I'm like, dude, the left should just stand for equality, everyone has the right to an education, everyone has the right to not go fucking hungry, to have health insurance, gay people can do whatever they want with their dicks, the end, bye-bye. | ||
| And vaginas. | ||
| And vaginas. | ||
| It really should be essentially like that on both sides. | ||
| The right, what being a conservative used to be was small government and people having the government stay out of your lives. | ||
| They do the opposite. | ||
| It's morphing. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Where it's like, we will stay out of your lives, but we'll be in your pussy if you want a fucking abortion. | ||
| We'll tell you whose dick you can suck. | ||
| The abortion thing is where it gets real squirrely, right? | ||
| Because the abortion thing is essentially a religious thing. | ||
| And it's a religious thing, it's a moral thing, and it's also, what is an abortion? | ||
| I mean, you are ending a life, but you're ending a life inside a woman's body. | ||
| Well, when is it okay to do that? | ||
| Is it okay to do that at... | ||
| One day. | ||
| And does the grown woman's life matter more than the cells or more than... | ||
| Well, yeah, that gets to a point, but initially it's like, when is it defined as a life? | ||
| I mean, if the moment of conception, if that moment, if 30 seconds later it's an abortion, like if you could hold your breath and then the baby's dead, you know, like if we found out that the moment a guy comes to a woman, if she could just hold her breath for a minute, the baby will die. | ||
| I mean, is that... | ||
| Why does that sound worse? | ||
| Is that baby murder? | ||
| Look, abortion is fucking weird. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| I'm pro-choice, but abortion is weird. | ||
| Because when it gets older, when you're four weeks in, six weeks in, and it's still legal, and it's a fucking little baby. | ||
| I mean, it is a little baby. | ||
| You look at it, it looks like a little baby. | ||
| Sometimes they have a heartbeat if it gets to a certain age. | ||
| What's going on? | ||
| I'm not saying that it should be my choice to define whether or not someone should do it or not do it, but it's very disingenuous when people frame this argument as it's a woman's right to choose, period. | ||
| And that's what it is. | ||
| It's not just that. | ||
| It's also killing a baby. | ||
| I don't know, man. | ||
| Feminists don't like me anymore, so I'm like, coat hanger up. | ||
| I'm out of this debate. | ||
| I don't give a shit. | ||
| Well, it's... | ||
| It should be an honest debate because it is a very controversial and a very nuanced issue. | ||
| It's not as simple as, you know, the right doesn't want a woman to choose and stay out of my body. | ||
| It's not just stay out of your body. | ||
| It's like, what are we doing? | ||
| We're killing a baby that's in a woman's body. | ||
| At what age should that be legal? | ||
| Well, and I think that's the whole thing that we were talking about before with these, like, echo chambers where, you know, for the first time ever I've been listening to sort of, like, Both sides of issues. | ||
| First time ever? | ||
| I mean, first time since... | ||
| Recently. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well, because, like, you just surround... | ||
| Again, the majority of people, like, yeah, I'll totally fess up, sure. | ||
| Like, I didn't ask a lot of follow-up questions because your Facebook feed is curated and your Twitter is all of your friends and for the most part people you agree with. | ||
| And, you know, comedy was actually... | ||
| Comedy now, like, I've been listening to, like, a ton of, like, backlogs of your shows because once I was just like, oh, he doesn't hate me, I can listen to the show again? | ||
| Great. | ||
| I never hated you. | ||
| No, I know. | ||
| I never hated you. | ||
| But I started listening to the show and hearing pretty equal progressive to conservative ideals. | ||
| And comedy was always kind of this cool place where you could explore ideas because comedy and jokes and laughter would sort of take the edge off a little bit. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| And you could actually talk about issues and... | ||
| Once I kind of became part of that crew that would even shit on comedy, then it was like, well, I can watch Democracy Now, and I guess that's it. | ||
| And I would feel fucking stupid. | ||
| I hung out with journalists. | ||
| I didn't hang out with comics. | ||
| I hung out with people where I felt like the joke monkey, and the high school dropout part of me would get really like... | ||
| What do you mean by you felt like the joke monkey? | ||
| Did you feel like you had to be funny? | ||
| When you're around those people? | ||
| Yeah, because when I tried to say something political or that I thought was smart, it would just be kind of hushed. | ||
| Because I'm not that smart. | ||
| I'm good at telling stories. | ||
| I'm good at, I think, listening and asking decent questions. | ||
| But I was never a fucking intellectual. | ||
| And a lot of that crowd is. | ||
| And that's good. | ||
| We need those people, right? | ||
| But I would It was really easy for me to be like, just shut up. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| But is this all in your mind? | ||
| I mean, you're a human being, right? | ||
| I mean, if you're just talking to these people, you're not an unintelligent person. | ||
| No, I think so. | ||
| Is this just an insecurity that you carried around with you when you were around them? | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Yeah, a lot of it was. | ||
| Because you were venturing... | ||
| The reason why I ask you this, your show was sort of, in a lot of ways, venturing into the world of journalism. | ||
| Oh, so that's where I was going. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| That's where I was going, like, sort of way back, which was... | ||
| You know, the show started as a comedy show. | ||
| It was called Drunken Politics before it was called Citizen Radio. | ||
| I think we changed it maybe around Occupy. | ||
| But it was comedy. | ||
| And we had progressive ideas, so that's sort of what we talked about. | ||
| But it wasn't that we had to talk about. | ||
| It became this thing where any progressive issue in the news that day or on Twitter, we had to talk about that day. | ||
|
unidentified
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And... | |
| It sort of lost... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Did you... | |
| Did it also... | ||
| Sorry to keep interrupting here, but did it also... | ||
| You guys went to sort of a subscription service. | ||
| No, we actually... | ||
| Didn't you? | ||
| No, the thing I'm really proud of about that show and why I'm definitely bummed out I lost a lot of those fans or whatever was we... | ||
| We started ages ago. | ||
| We were pretty early on with podcasts, and we never had commercials, and we never had... | ||
| You didn't really get anything if you paid. | ||
| It was voluntary. | ||
| It was like a shitty version of NPR, where it was like, everybody gets the show for free, right? | ||
| It was like us trying to be socialist. | ||
| Everyone gets the show for free. | ||
| If you can't afford $5 a month, $10 a month, $50. | ||
| A lot of people do that way. | ||
| Sam Harris does that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Totally. | |
| Totally! | ||
| Yeah, yeah, we just didn't really have, like, we couldn't afford to send you, like, a tote bag or whatever. | ||
| But yeah, so it wasn't a pay model. | ||
| Everything we said, anybody could hear. | ||
| We occasionally did, like, little, like, goofy bonus shows for, like, subscribers. | ||
|
unidentified
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But that was it. | |
| That was the question. | ||
| So there was some shows that only people who subscribed could do. | ||
| Yeah, not a lot. | ||
| But most of it was. | ||
| Not a lot, though. | ||
| Yeah, and it was five days a week, too. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So it was a lot. | ||
| That's another thing. | ||
| When you're doing a fucking show five days a week, you gotta dig for things to be pissed off about, to not be redundant. | ||
| Yeah, I've done five-day-a-week shows, and I don't think I'm at my best five days a week. | ||
| I think four days a week is where I start to break down anything after four days a week. | ||
| Unless I'm doing fight companions, which are just a goof. | ||
| That's just hanging out and watching fights. | ||
| That's easy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You don't want to get stale or bored. | ||
| You don't want to force it into being a job. | ||
|
unidentified
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No. | |
| I think what I got out of you was that you were getting a lot of praise, and you were being hailed. | ||
| I saw Jezebel. | ||
| Wrote something where they called you a great example of an ally. | ||
| Well, that was pre this year, Jezebel. | ||
| Yeah, but I mean, but that expression is a very odd expression. | ||
| I mean, I hate to sound like this disingenuous egalitarian, but I really do believe this. | ||
| I mean, we should be allies to each other. | ||
| We all should be. | ||
| This idea that, like, there's a goddamn team war going on. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that Jamie Kilstein is out there bucking for the females. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's what it's like. | ||
| It's like that's what they yeah, but they reward that yeah, this is the thing It's like so and then it's not the single out Jezebel because I think they've got some great writers sure yes There's there's something that happens with people when you write a lot of mean Very critical stuff. | ||
| And you become this attack machine. | ||
| And this is how you promote your ideas. | ||
| This is how you push your agenda. | ||
| By attacking people that some of them fucking deserve it for sure. | ||
| Some of them are definitely assholes. | ||
| But It becomes almost like the currency that you deal in. | ||
| Yeah, and that goes back to the insecurity, right? | ||
| By the way, my dad- Oh, yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry. | ||
| Is that when you're an attack machine like that, and I'm not saying that Jezebel is, but there's a lot of the blogs that are attack machines. | ||
| When you're an attack machine, and if you can be- An ally on the other side, or not even on the other side, but an ally to the attack machine, and then they single you out as that, it gives you this feeling like, oh, I'm not going to get attacked by them. | ||
| This is good. | ||
| And you reinforce that behavior by ramping up the types of things that you say that they like, that they appreciate. | ||
| And it becomes a sort of weird exchange where it's implied. | ||
| I think this is a lot of what goes on in political circles as well. | ||
| There's not as much bribery as there is an understanding that if you do what we want you to do and you say what we want you to do, then you're in. | ||
| Then you're on the good side. | ||
| Yeah, and that goes back to that insecurity. | ||
| And I think a lot of people... | ||
| I think we're all insecure. | ||
| Everyone is. | ||
| And when you do find that tribe, and you do find people who are going, yeah, and the more you attack on Twitter, because not just blogs, like remember, like individuals on Twitter, like me, like when I would see like, who's getting piled on today? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Okay, cool. | ||
| This writer wrote something about mansplaining. | ||
| Don't need to read the article. | ||
| What's the hashtag? | ||
| That's the hashtag. | ||
| I'm going to say the fucking meanest funny thing because I'm a comic and I'm funnier than journalists. | ||
| And then famous people are going to retweet me or fave me. | ||
| And then I get to feel like a fucking civil rights hero. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| Because that's what would happen where, like, I would literally tweet, not even a joke, even if I tweeted somebody sincere, and this, like, sucks to admit, but even if I tweeted something, like, hashtag Black Lives Matter. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| I'm refreshing that shit to be like, did Questlove favorite it? | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Like, I'm not doing it to be, you know, and then you can feel good about yourself. | ||
| Then you can go, not saying I did this, but you can go on the street and you can fucking ignore the homeless person, and you can cross the street when you see, like, the scary black guy, because you're just like, well, I'm technically the Rosa Parks of Twitter, because I fucking tweeted that joke at that writer who said that fucking thing that no one's gonna remember tomorrow, but we were all angry about today. | ||
| Jesus Christ, this is the first time I've had caveman coffee. | ||
| Oh, these nitros are no joke. | ||
| You're basically drinking Adderall. | ||
| I think. | ||
| I've never done Adderall. | ||
| I got Adderall offered to me before the Stanhope podcast, and he came up to me afterwards and was like, man, you fucking talked a lot. | ||
| That Adderall fucked you up. | ||
| And I was like, I didn't take it. | ||
| I had it in my pocket. | ||
|
unidentified
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I was like, that was just me being spazzy. | |
| So I think what happens is, so yeah, so you get that validation, right? | ||
| Yeah, you get the validation and it's essentially, it's an exchange. | ||
| It's an exchange. | ||
| Like we were talking about with Twitter being like this, you get this dopamine rush every time you tweet and refresh. | ||
| It's one of the main reasons why I don't interact with people online very much. | ||
| It's very rare that I do. | ||
| And when I do, I'm almost always civil. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because I just don't think that... | ||
| Unless it's one of my friends and I could call Bert a fucking dork because he called himself the machine yesterday. | ||
| The machine, I saw that. | ||
| Like, come on, dude. | ||
| I'm the machine. | ||
| I love him so much. | ||
| Years ago. | ||
| Let that go, Bert. | ||
| Gotta move on. | ||
| But, I mean, that's just fake. | ||
| Yeah, and I... I wasn't gonna say off that with man just a sort of sidebar with Twitter When all that shit happened to me and I got off all social media, but you didn't explain what happened. | ||
| Oh, right, right, right Okay, so you're the super vegan feminist Yeah, and again like The ideas at their core, right? | ||
| Sexism's bad, rape's bad. | ||
| These shouldn't be fucking controversial issues, but when you take it to that extreme that you were talking about where you're looking to sort of like, who can I call a sexist today? | ||
| Who can I call a racist today? | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| It becomes an attack machine. | ||
| Yeah, and yeah, my dad said that yesterday. | ||
| He's like, if you go on the show, you should say you're not going to be an attack machine. | ||
| And I'm like, what a dorky thing to say. | ||
| I swear to God, I emailed it to myself, and now I can be like, yeah, right, Rogan agreed, you and my pops. | ||
| Yeah, he's going to be very excited. | ||
| So... | ||
| Yeah, so that happened. | ||
| And what you were saying with the Ally title, I was never comfortable with a lot of the stuff I got thrown into. | ||
| You know, I was constantly saying either the wrong or offensive things on the show that we would have to... | ||
| Because you're trying to be funny. | ||
| Because I'm trying to be funny, and we would have to stop and edit it out. | ||
| I would feel like a fucking idiot. | ||
| And... | ||
| And I remember I did a college once, and it was the first time this ever happened. | ||
| Usually they introduce you by my measly credits. | ||
| They would be like, he did Conan once. | ||
| And this time the woman at the college introduced me. | ||
| She didn't give any comedy credits. | ||
| She just goes, our headliner tonight is a male feminist. | ||
| And I remember going into the mic and being like, that makes me sound like a rapist. | ||
| Like, it sounds so fucking creepy. | ||
| And that's what I was, like, labeling myself. | ||
| That was a label that was thrown at me. | ||
| And in my head, I'm like, well, I don't hate women, so I guess, sure. | ||
| But male feminist sounds like you're, like, cruising around in, like, a fucking male feminist van. | ||
| being like who wants equal pay like it sounds so creepy but I took it cuz there is so much sexism on the other side that you're like I guess man I guess being an ally is good right that's like you're defending people but then it gets to this level where you're like I got to renew my ally dues and call somebody a fucking rapist and that's where got stuck so and then this so this is where it bit me in the ass so I come on this show We have the argument about sexism. | ||
| I'm like, great. | ||
| Well, we had a discussion about Daniel Tosh. | ||
| About the rape jokes. | ||
| When Daniel Tosh made a rape joke. | ||
| And also, there was this weird definition that people like to use. | ||
| I'm sure you're probably aware of the actual definition now of how many rapes actually occur. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Which is, it all came from a study that, God, I want to say it was out of the University of Arizona, but I forget where the study was, but they essentially looked at almost any uncomfortable interaction between a man and a woman, unwanted or remorseful sex was rape, a lot of different things. | ||
| Sex while intoxicated was rape. | ||
| There's a lot of different things that they used to define sex where they got to this one in five. | ||
| Well, and this is another reason we need to have the conversation, right? | ||
| Because, like, remorseful, I don't know what that definition is, but that doesn't sound like... | ||
| I mean, many people have had sex. | ||
| I'm sure you have. | ||
| And afterwards, you're like, what the fuck was I doing? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, some people want to call that rape. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| But, like, if you're fucking blackout drunk and, like, the dude's not, like, okay, that is. | ||
| But if we can't have the conversations... | ||
| But if you're blackout drunk and the girl's not, did you get raped? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because that's happened to me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| That's happened to me, too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Straight up. | ||
| Has a girl ever hit you? | ||
| Hit me? | ||
| Physically? | ||
| I've had girls swing at me. | ||
| I got... | ||
| They telegraph it. | ||
| They do! | ||
| They wind up and they're yelling, which I'm told that's what they tell you to do in Krav Maga, but they yell while they do it. | ||
| I'm like, you can't yell before you throw a punch. | ||
| I'm going to know the punch is coming. | ||
| But these are stories that I couldn't even tell. | ||
| I had a girlfriend try to beat the shit out of me when I was 20 years old, but it happened at the same time. | ||
| I swear to God, I'm just dodging what happened, but I will get to it after this. | ||
| She... | ||
| I was breaking up with her, but it was at the same time that—do you remember DIFUS? It was like Child Services. | ||
| DIFUS. DIFUS. That was the acronym. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Maybe it was just a Jersey thing, but it was Child Services, essentially. | ||
| It was at our house to do an inspection, essentially, to be like, is it fit to have kids here? | ||
| Because my house was a disaster back in the day. | ||
| Why did they do it in... | ||
| Were you guys thinking about having a baby or something? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no, no, no. | |
| We had, like, alcoholism in the family, and, like, neighbors were complaining and screaming, and, like, I was a fucking train wreck. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How old were you? | |
| Oh, I was like... | ||
| Oh, no, I guess I was, like, 19, but I was still living at home. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And I'm one of five. | ||
| So... | ||
| I'm the oldest of five. | ||
| So this guy... | ||
| So I'm breaking up with my girlfriend, not knowing that this, like, Dyfus random inspection is going to happen. | ||
| And this guy comes over and he's this, like, older African guy. | ||
| And he's sitting with my dad on the couch. | ||
| African-American or African-African? | ||
| African-African. | ||
| And... | ||
| So the accent and everything. | ||
| That's the one. | ||
| I'm allowed to laugh at that now. | ||
| You couldn't move on. | ||
| Good times. | ||
| Yeah, I can... | ||
| Oh, there's so many words I can say now. | ||
| It's a good time to be alive. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Oh my god, I was with my friend the first time I hung out with a comic, this guy, Luis Gomez, do you know him? | ||
| Yeah, I know Luis. | ||
| So I was with Luis, and we were hanging out in LA, and I was telling him I think I want to do comedy again, and he made a joke with the word fingering in it, and I started laughing like a fucking kid, and I'm like, I forgot how fucking funny the word fingering is! | ||
| Fingering is a funny word. | ||
| Dude, I felt like I came out of a comedy coma. | ||
| I was like, oh, fingering and midget and comedy, there's so many good... | ||
| Anyway, so... | ||
| So my girlfriend, so I'm breaking up with her, and she starts swinging at me. | ||
| And she's like, you can't fucking break up with me, blah, blah, blah. | ||
| And I was just like, hey, we can talk about this later, but there's a guy downstairs who is going to, with a hilarious accent, who's going to take my brother's. | ||
| You have to stop. | ||
| And she's fucking swinging at me and swinging at me. | ||
| She didn't want to listen. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| And she's screaming. | ||
| She was like, are you? | ||
| So I beat the shit out of her. | ||
| And then Jezebel wrote about it, and that's what happened. | ||
| So I'm just kind of covering up, and I'm like, you have to stop. | ||
| They're going to take my baby brother. | ||
| She storms off. | ||
| And I go downstairs, and this guy from Child Services is there. | ||
| And I look at him, and I have tears in my eyes. | ||
| I'm like, please don't take my brother's. | ||
| She doesn't live here. | ||
| She's just my girlfriend. | ||
| I broke up with her. | ||
| She's never going to be here again. | ||
| I'm so sorry about that. | ||
| And he just looks at me, and he goes, and my dad, and he just goes, women are crazy, aren't they? | ||
| And I was just like... | ||
| Alright. | ||
| And that was it. | ||
| He didn't give a fuck. | ||
| He was like, I've seen that before. | ||
| And she got to leave. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| You got lucky. | ||
| I got lucky. | ||
| Could have been an angry woman. | ||
| Could have been an angry woman and we all would have been in jail. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So I am known as this male feminist. | ||
| Which again, it kind of becomes my thing. | ||
| So I go on your show. | ||
| We argue about it because I'm like, I don't have comic friends anymore. | ||
| So I take this side. | ||
| And I didn't hear all about the rape joke. | ||
| I just heard the whole Daniel Tosh story I heard at the Stan Hope show for the first time. | ||
| Because the articles I read don't have the nuanced parts, right? | ||
| Let's explain what actually happened. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Daniel Tosh was not supposed to be on stage that night. | ||
| Daniel Tosh was just hanging out at the Laugh Factory and his good friend Dom Herrera asked him to go up. | ||
| And he said, I'll go. | ||
| Okay, I don't have anything to talk about. | ||
| He goes on stage. | ||
| Everybody goes crazy. | ||
| Oh my god, Daniel Tosh is here. | ||
| This is amazing. | ||
| And he goes, look, I don't have any material. | ||
| I'm not even supposed to be up here. | ||
| So what do you guys want to talk about? | ||
| And some guy yells out, rape! | ||
| And he goes, yeah. | ||
| He goes, yeah, that's real funny, sir. | ||
| What's funny about rape? | ||
| The humiliation, the violence. | ||
| And this woman yells out, actually, nothing's funny about rape. | ||
| Like, very self-aggrandizing. | ||
| And he goes, wouldn't it be funny if five guys raped her right now? | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's the funny part. | ||
| That's like what a comedian does. | ||
| So that line was the line that was circulating. | ||
| But even that first part, not that... | ||
| That part was ignored conveniently. | ||
| The whole part where he's just like, what's funny about it? | ||
| And that's a good, technically, that's an anti-rape joke, right? | ||
| Which, if you know Daniel, that's how he thinks. | ||
| He's not a bad guy in any sense of the word. | ||
| And that's a great way, but that has to do with these echo chambers where I'm like, well, I didn't fucking hear that part of it. | ||
| I just hear the part, you just hear the part that you're supposed to attack. | ||
| And then, ironically, I went to one of Burt's podcasts at the same festival, the All Things Comedy Festival, and And fucking Doug and Bert, like, this whole rape thing happened in the audience. | ||
| I don't know if you heard about it, but, like, all hell broke loose. | ||
| A rape thing in the audience? | ||
| Yeah, so, like, I don't want to be the one to blow up the spot. | ||
| I don't know if Bert's gonna air it. | ||
| If he airs the Take Off From Work podcast or whatever, it's one of the best things I've ever heard. | ||
| We can call him right now. | ||
| Yeah, because I don't want to blow up his spot. | ||
| But... | ||
| Essentially what happened was Stan Hope... | ||
| It'll just get people to listen. | ||
| Good. | ||
| Stan Hope started talking about rape and child rape and the whole show became very rape themed. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And there was a girl next to me and there was a woman next to me and my girlfriend who just started screaming like, don't talk about it. | ||
| And they ignored her the whole time. | ||
| And my girlfriend and I would look over and then she would like... | ||
| Have another sip of her drink and watch the show and giggle and then rape will come up. | ||
| And she was like, stop! | ||
| And she would just scream. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But she didn't leave. | |
| She didn't get up and leave. | ||
| And that was like... | ||
| It was so interesting to be on sort of the opposite end of that where nothing offensive was really happening. | ||
| And I'm like, fuck, man. | ||
| I'm next to that lady from the Tos show. | ||
| This is like my karmic fate. | ||
| And I'm just like, she should go. | ||
| She should leave. | ||
| But anyway, so I was on... | ||
| The not-comic side of that. | ||
| And by then, I wasn't doing comedy clubs. | ||
| I was never really accepted into comedy clubs. | ||
| I'm just playing for my progressive audience at a vegan coffee house. | ||
| I'm just playing random little rock gigs for my audience. | ||
| So again, echo chamber, right? | ||
| And I'm not hanging out with comics. | ||
| So when people are like, why aren't you defending a comic? | ||
| I'm like, I don't know, man, because I don't think I am one. | ||
| I didn't really consider myself one. | ||
| And so, yeah, so me and you went at it. | ||
| I believe it was very divisive. | ||
| I think half your audience thought I was a whiny bitch, and the other half thought I was a whiny bitch who should get raped. | ||
| It was very one-sided. | ||
| Nobody liked me. | ||
| I did not come off well, I'm told. | ||
| But I was like, I guess I did the right thing, right? | ||
| I guess I sided with women over jokes. | ||
| And so from then on, any comic that did like me didn't. | ||
| Well, let me stop you right there. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| And I'm not trying to sound victim-y, by the way. | ||
| For the sake of honesty, the real issue came not just because of that, but because of your characterization. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The next day. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| So the next day... | ||
| There's a video out about it that someone put together called the Killstein Delusion. | ||
| Yeah, and some of that shit was taken out of context. | ||
| Some of that shit I will completely own up to. | ||
| I watched it once. | ||
| I mean, at that point, just all hell broke loose. | ||
| I lost my managers. | ||
| Someone hacked my Twitter and just wrote rape all over it. | ||
| Why'd you lose your manager? | ||
| They said it was because I don't cooperate with the comedy community. | ||
| To be fair to them, I was like a pain in the ass client. | ||
| It was hard enough for me to fucking book. | ||
| And then every comicates me and they're like, I don't know, man. | ||
| I think they just like threw their hands up. | ||
| And so the next day was one of those things where I'm like... | ||
| I either doubled down and it wasn't like I'm going to lie. | ||
| It was I'm going to try to defend myself and give my side to it. | ||
| Let me stop you here real quick because we're going way, way, way back. | ||
| The real issue, this is like a year before, more than a year before everything went sideways. | ||
| Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| So what went sideways and why? | ||
| So you're this super progressive vegan guy, but what went sideways? | ||
| So, an ex of mine... | ||
| An ex of mine... | ||
| I'm trying to think about how much I can say. | ||
| Started... | ||
| It was weird. | ||
| Like, girls I was dating, like, she would kind of, like, pop up and be, like, following them on, like, social media. | ||
| And I kind of was like, alright, it's a little weird. | ||
| Girls you were dating, but you were married at the time. | ||
| So, what was also not talked about in these articles is that for the last however many years before Alice and I got separated, we were in an open relationship. | ||
| We talked about it on the show eventually, but for a while we didn't talk about it. | ||
| Which to anyone in a fucking open relationship, it's a nightmare when you're not talking about it because you feel like a lecherous, cheating creep because you're in an open relationship. | ||
| But you don't talk about it so that when girls meet you and you tell them you're in an open relationship, they're like, yeah, right. | ||
| Yeah, totally. | ||
| When you go, I'm in a secret open relationship, they're like, you're full of shit. | ||
| And so... | ||
| I kind of did the road thing, but felt like a fucking creep. | ||
| The road thing meaning hook up with girls? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| And then I was finally just like, we have to talk about it. | ||
| And at this point, and I don't want to shit on anybody, at this point, my co-host and I, we were pretty much just really good friends who lived together and did a show together. | ||
| And... | ||
| So years later, years after me and this girl broke up, years after all this shit, I'm living in LA. I've had a girlfriend for a year. | ||
| It's like a very healthy, wonderful relationship. | ||
| Years after all this, I guess what happened was one of these girls... | ||
| Essentially started to try to find any girl who has been pissed off by me before. | ||
| And they found enough for an article that I think like two articles came out. | ||
| I left Citizen Radio because the show was getting a ton of complaints because our inner circle started to find out that there were quote unquote accusations, which the word accusation makes it sound Weinstein-y. | ||
| Accusations of... | ||
| So that's what... | ||
| They were saying... | ||
| But it was very unspecific, what I read. | ||
| They said predatory behavior. | ||
| And I was like, oh, meaning he's trying to get laid. | ||
| That's what a man does. | ||
| Not predatory in the sense of you're victimizing someone or raping someone or doing something horrible to someone or even... | ||
| And this is when my own words kind of bit me in the ass. | ||
| Because you... | ||
| I spent an entire year or years being like, you know, hashtag believe women. | ||
| And then you read that and you go, hashtag don't believe women. | ||
| Like, you don't know what to do. | ||
| And like, I was always like, if you call a girl who accuses you, you know, crazy, you're just projecting. | ||
| And like, you're trying to... | ||
| And then suddenly I'm reading this article. | ||
| I'm like, this is fucking crazy. | ||
| And I didn't... | ||
| All of my stuff... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, but hold on. | |
| One article. | ||
| Are you talking about the Jezebel article? | ||
| Yeah, there was a Jezebel article. | ||
| Hell hath no fury like a woman's gorn. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| It was really bad. | ||
| And I read it for the first time. | ||
| And I don't want to go into details because I don't want to shit on people who feel like they were hurt or whatever. | ||
| But a good majority of the article isn't even fucking true. | ||
| There was one part where... | ||
| Jezebel even wrote it. | ||
| Like, if we can make it about journalism... | ||
| Well, let's not even say Jezebel, because it's one woman who wrote it. | ||
| Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. | ||
| So the author, there's one moment in it, and I'll try to make this about journalism and not about the woman, but one of the complaints about me was I had a consensual... | ||
| Night with a lady in Nashville who, I guess because she listened to the show, maybe they're like, that's predatory because you're famous. | ||
| And I was like, well, no one else thinks I'm fucking famous. | ||
| But wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. | ||
| They were defining it as predatory because you're famous? | ||
| That's part of it. | ||
| So every time Mick Jagger gets laid, it's predatory? | ||
| That's part of it. | ||
| That's what I don't... | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| And by the way... | ||
| If I'm Mick Jagger famous, you can call me a fucking predator. | ||
| If I can barely get a plus one to a vegan festival famous, please do not call me a predator. | ||
| Well, I mean, look. | ||
| There's levels to fame, right? | ||
| And I know you're being self-deprecating and everything like that. | ||
| But you did have a nice following. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| I saw some of your videos online where you did big crowds. | ||
| Yeah, no. | ||
| It's not like you didn't have fans. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| So you did have fans. | ||
| But the idea that you... | ||
| Liking some woman who's a fan and her liking you, like, that somehow or another you're a predator because she enjoys your work is crazy. | ||
| Is that how they were defining it? | ||
| Because I don't know. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That seems like they're being very convenient in their definitions. | ||
| Well, and that was part of it. | ||
| There was, like... | ||
| There was another one where it was like... | ||
| Yeah, the predatory stuff specifically was that. | ||
| And then what was even more fucked up about the article was it said... | ||
| And I'm not gonna quote exactly. | ||
| She also wrote into another podcast and I heard this, but essentially what the woman said, we did not sleep together. | ||
| It alluded that we slept together. | ||
| It didn't say that I was in an open relationship, but we didn't sleep together. | ||
| She told me she didn't want to sleep together and I was like, great, no problem. | ||
| She's like, I don't want it to go further than that. | ||
| So I was like, cool, even if you change your mind, we're not gonna do it. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| And then in the article, in the article about me being a predator, it's like, I felt so safe and it was a great night. | ||
| And I was like, this sounds like an article about me being a good dude. | ||
| And then it said, but then weeks later, she heard on the podcast that she was just a, quote, road fuck. | ||
| And then Jezebel, in parentheses, this one author from Jezebel, in parentheses, said Jezebel could not find the clip. | ||
| Right! | ||
| Because it doesn't fucking exist because I'm not going to call someone a road fuck next to my wife on my feminist podcast. | ||
| Not only that, you're not going to say it if you didn't even have sex with them. | ||
| And we didn't have sex! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right! | |
| So this is just, they just decided to take this characterization by this one woman and flavor the article with it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes! | |
| It's very unfair, right? | ||
| No, and dude, like... | ||
| So is this punishment, you think, for you because you somehow or another... | ||
| So that's why it becomes easy. | ||
| And just to be, like, incredibly clear, like, if this... | ||
| Woman was like hurt by that like that sucks, man. | ||
| I've been burnt by girls Do anything if she didn't if she was hurt because you didn't eventually become her girlfriend, right? | ||
| You're her boyfriend rather. | ||
| That's just on her sure Unless you're mischaracter. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no, no I'm just trying to be You're trying to be nice. | |
| I'm trying to be nice. | ||
| I assume she is probably taken out of context as well. | ||
| There's a real problem with writing things about people. | ||
| And one of the real problems with writing things about people is they don't get a chance to respond in real time to the things you're saying. | ||
| So you establish a narrative and then you keep going with it. | ||
| You write paragraph after paragraph with no one responding to that. | ||
| No counter to it. | ||
| I saw the woman who wrote the article, there was a request in my other inbox in Facebook that you don't even see for a comment. | ||
| So she did reach out. | ||
| But at that point, I was literally Googling ways to kill myself. | ||
| So I'm like, I did not get back to her. | ||
| So you were Googling ways to kill yourself for real? | ||
| Yeah, for real. | ||
| Why? | ||
| Because it's one article? | ||
| So, here's what happened, and this goes to your question before. | ||
| Had called so many people sexist because I had sort of made my almost career by that It was a fucking fun man when people heard about this Like and you see the headlines and this is another like problem with like clickbait journalism The headlines look like I was fucking accused of rape. | ||
| There was a One article that used the word sexual harassment sexual misconduct was in all the headlines. | ||
| What is that? | ||
| I I have no fucking idea. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's a weird one. | |
| Because I've seen that one about people connected to Harvey Weinstein. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like about Ben Affleck. | ||
| They call it sexual misconduct. | ||
| What does that mean? | ||
| Like doing something that you don't think they should do? | ||
| Well, it's really creepy. | ||
| But it's legal. | ||
| And I almost lost a job. | ||
| I did just lose a gig. | ||
| Because when you Google me, it's like sexual misconduct stuff. | ||
| And like, that's really scary. | ||
| And again, I don't want to be like, you know who the real victim of Harvey Weinstein is? | ||
| Jamie Kilstein. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But like... | ||
| Let me just stop you right here. | ||
| If you say like one more time, my fucking head's gonna explode. | ||
| Dude, I get comments like that. | ||
| It's brutal. | ||
| Is it brutal? | ||
| Is it as bad as... | ||
| Alright, I'm gonna... | ||
| I just want you to slow it down. | ||
| I'm gonna... | ||
| Use it every now and then. | ||
| Slip this coffee over here? | ||
| You're breaking the like meter. | ||
| I'm gonna... | ||
| I do it too, man. | ||
| A lot of people do it. | ||
| It's an easy one to do. | ||
| I'm gonna switch to water? | ||
| But that word is a... | ||
| It's an um. | ||
| It's a... | ||
| People use it as um. | ||
| I know. | ||
| It's okay. | ||
| I do it too. | ||
| We all do it, but it's nice to know. | ||
| But it's also a very progressive thing. | ||
| There's a way that people talk when they're really progressive that you don't hear left-wing people talk. | ||
| I keep getting fucked over by the progressives, even with my speech. | ||
| It's a way of appearing... | ||
| What's the word? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Submissive or non-aggressive. | |
| Passive. | ||
| It's not an aggressive way of communicating. | ||
| Alright, what if I said like, but like I kept like punching the table like as I did it? | ||
| Like I'm gonna fucking like let you know like... | ||
| You gonna like step to me? | ||
| Just smash up paps, uh, can. | ||
| So you got a bunch of people that were upset at you because you had embodied the... | ||
| Quintessential allies. | ||
| Nobody had a reason to like me or to defend me. | ||
| On one half of the Twittersphere, you had progressives who thought I was a sexual creep. | ||
| And then on the other half, you have comedy fans who are like, fuck this dude. | ||
| He's the one who called everyone a sexist. | ||
| You don't need to read the article if you see a headline. | ||
| I mean, God, I attacked so many people without fucking reading the articles. | ||
| Right, of course. | ||
| There are people to this day that would come up on Citizen Radio that I don't know why I was mad at. | ||
| I would just figure out the story as we were covering it and be like, yep, fuck that guy, I guess. | ||
| Yeah, of course. | ||
| And... | ||
| So nobody—there was no reason to root for me. | ||
| There wasn't a strong enough fan base. | ||
| It wasn't like if, you know, a bigger comic gets accused of something. | ||
| Well, he has thousands or millions of fans, and then this small community who are accusing him of something. | ||
| I had sort of nobody, and when I burnt all the bridges in comedy—and, you know, I never just showed up at clubs to do sets and stuff like that. | ||
| I just had this audience— And sort of thought I could never get fired, you know? | ||
| Like, when Allie and I sort of became more platonic before the open relationship, I mean, there were days it was so, you know, I mean, I would sleep on the couch, but there were days I would go on the road and I would not cheat. | ||
| And I would go back to the hotel and jerk off and, like, my orgasm was better because I'm like, I saved Citizen Radio! | ||
| Like, I was trying so hard not to do anything like that. | ||
| And so, anyway, I lost... | ||
| Yeah, there was no one to root for me. | ||
| I just had this small audience. | ||
| This small audience either thinks I'm a predator or they're too nervous to say anything. | ||
| Well, you fit the quintessence. | ||
| There's a classic view of what a male feminist is. | ||
| And that classic view is a sneaky guy that is getting in tight with women and saying all the things they really want to hear. | ||
| And the classic story is that those women are never attracted to that guy anyway and wind up and go and fuck some jocks. | ||
| Some alpha guy. | ||
| I mean, that's literally what happens. | ||
| It's like, yeah, you don't say like, do you? | ||
| But it's just this thing that people... | ||
| It's a cliche. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And I also think it was the homophobic politician who sucks a dick, right? | ||
| Sure, same thing. | ||
| Where they're like, ha. | ||
| Right, the super religious guy who turns out to actually be gay, like Ted... | ||
| What is that guy's name? | ||
| The guy from Colorado. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I forgot. | |
| Can we just say Cruz and start an uproar? | ||
| Ted Cruz, right? | ||
| It was definitely Ted Cruz. | ||
| Ted Haggard. | ||
| Ted Haggard, yes. | ||
| And... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Who didn't? | |
| Yeah, right? | ||
| And so this is what happens... | ||
| Yeah, this is sort of the problem with acting like you don't have flaws. | ||
| And I always did. | ||
| I thought on the show, my favorite parts of my show were when I talked about depression or alcoholism and we would get emails in from people who, you know, it said it really helped them and I wanted to talk so much more about that stuff. | ||
| Because I do think it's important to examine your flaws, but on a political level, I held myself up as like an untouchable. | ||
| Well, I think you were doing essentially the same thing that you were talking about doing on Twitter, where you're addicted to this positive response and you're addicted to saying these things about people and attacking people. | ||
| It's a real problem on the left. | ||
| Where there are people that essentially a giant majority of what they do is attacking people. | ||
| Yeah, and you also get scared about what you can talk about. | ||
| So one of the things that would come up a lot was like fat shaming stories on the show. | ||
| But what also came up was, like, I fucking love jujitsu. | ||
| And so we would get emails from people who were like, yo, my doctor just said, like, I have to lose weight or I'm fucked or whatever. | ||
| And the first thing I would recommend, like, I would give diet advice and I would be like, jujitsu. | ||
| Go fucking do jujitsu. | ||
| And then we got countless emails from people who were like, yo, I lost 100 pounds because I did jujitsu. | ||
| Yo, I just got my blue belt. | ||
| Like, I feel confident for the first time or whatever. | ||
| And then we would get emails, counter emails, being like, I don't want you to talk about that because that's fat shaming to me. | ||
| And I couldn't say... | ||
| That's fucking crazy. | ||
| I couldn't say... | ||
| Why couldn't you say that? | ||
| Because it would be fat shaming. | ||
| In the box that I had put myself in, I couldn't say that. | ||
| I was capable of saying it. | ||
| I thought it. | ||
| I said it off the air. | ||
| But why wouldn't you... | ||
| See, this is where it gets real problematic when it comes to expressing your ideologies. | ||
| Like, if you can't be honest about your actual thoughts, then what you're doing is bullshit. | ||
| It was bullshit. | ||
| And there is the other side to the validation of once you find yourself in a box is the policing of it. | ||
| So there's validation on one side, and then there's, oh, I can get kicked out on the other side, right? | ||
| Like, if I say this word, I can get kicked out. | ||
| If I say that, like, you should not fucking come down on someone for doing jiu-jitsu and getting into better shape than you. | ||
| If you don't want to do it, I'm not saying this guy's doing jiu-jitsu, so fuck you for being fat. | ||
| I'm saying this guy's doing jiu-jitsu. | ||
| We should be proud of this guy who saved his life. | ||
| That's not fat-shaming, and there's so much of that projection from the left, and on Twitter in general. | ||
| But why is that, though? | ||
| It really is the ideology thing. | ||
| It's like you are unable to criticize anyone that's in your team. | ||
| Because this is essentially what's going on. | ||
| They're using the phrase fat shaming, which is obviously a progressive ideology. | ||
| It fits right into it. | ||
| But for someone to say that you're fat shaming by discussing people successfully managing their health... | ||
| That's fucking insane. | ||
| That's where it gets crazy. | ||
| But if you wanted to, you wanted to talk about this, right? | ||
| Yeah, of course I did. | ||
| Did Allison want to as well? | ||
| I mean, I can't speak for her, right? | ||
| But did you guys have conversations off the air about, like, this is crazy? | ||
| I would have conversations about that. | ||
| And, you know, because you don't... | ||
| Because fat shaming sucks, right? | ||
| Like if someone gets fired for being fat, like that's the thing. | ||
| I feel like there's a middle ground. | ||
| It's a slippery road when you can't honestly communicate. | ||
| Because the debate gets silenced. | ||
| It's done. | ||
| And that's what happens with, you know, I was listening to, I think it was Sam's podcast with the guy who got screamed off of that campus. | ||
| Sam Harris? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Jordan Peterson? | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| That was the Halloween costume one. | ||
| Yeah, from Yale. | ||
| It was him and his wife. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And he was just like, he sounded like the sweetest guy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Great guy. | |
| And I just knew. | ||
| I was like, I fucking, I don't remember when, but I can guarantee there's an episode about that. | ||
| Guy who was just like, I was defending my wife. | ||
| I've given to progressive causes my whole life. | ||
| I just tried to talk to them. | ||
| And yeah, he would raise his hand and they would call it like a fucking, some kind of like microaggression or I don't even remember. | ||
| You know what happened at Evergreen. | ||
| Like Evergreen State College. | ||
| I heard it on your show. | ||
| It was, yeah. | ||
| Oh yeah, I did hear that episode. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, that's a very extreme example where they were telling the president to put his hands down. | ||
| They said, because you're being aggressive with your hands. | ||
| So he did put his hands down and they started laughing. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because that's what's really going on. | ||
| It's a game. | ||
| Well, and the thing is, too, it's like we have such legit racism and sexism in this country and I feel like we should be going after those issues, right? | ||
| Well, that's why I think you are this conversation is very important because you're an example of someone who got caught up in the ideology of things where your intentions were good in the beginning But you got caught up in this whole left-wing spiral. | ||
| Yeah, that's the thing is if you go extreme Right I feel like, you know, if I had a big Nazi kill the Jews closing prop bit, I feel like I would know I was selling out. | ||
| But on the left, it's a creep, man, because you really feel like, again, the baseline of homophobia is bad, sexism is bad, racism is bad. | ||
| Those are good things, right? | ||
| So when it starts to creep into the language policing and stuff like that, at least for me, I didn't really notice it. | ||
| I would notice it sometimes and be like, man, I wish I could say this. | ||
| And I wouldn't because I wouldn't want to get in trouble. | ||
| And it bit me in the ass anyway. | ||
| And, you know, so the suicide stuff was like, yeah, right? | ||
| I had nothing. | ||
| People on Twitch... | ||
| So you stopped doing shows? | ||
| Oh, I got a day job for the first time in like 15... | ||
| What are you doing for a living? | ||
| Years. | ||
| Jiu-Jitsu stuff. | ||
| Teaching? | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| And... | ||
| You know... | ||
| But... | ||
| Even this stuff. | ||
| I don't want to put that fucking job in jeopardy, right? | ||
| At least it's something I love. | ||
| And... | ||
| But yeah, I couldn't perform. | ||
| I didn't, because again, remember, like... | ||
| So you felt like your audience was gone? | ||
| Audience gone. | ||
| Oh, straight up. | ||
| I mean, there was a Facebook comment. | ||
| I had to stop going online, but there was a Facebook comment from the day before that was like, just so you know, you saved me from killing myself. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| And then the next day when all that shit broke loose, you know how you can add a comment to your comment? | ||
| It was like, fuck you, I hope you, whatever. | ||
| Same person. | ||
| Same dude. | ||
| Literally added it to his comment. | ||
| But you need to think about some of the things that you said and realize that you didn't really mean them, but you were saying them because you're trading in the currency of political, correct, left-wing, progressive ideology thinking, right? | ||
| And you were getting from that. | ||
| You gotta realize these other people are doing the same thing. | ||
| They don't really mean what they're saying. | ||
| They feel like they have to say, fuck you, I hope you die, Jamie Kilstein. | ||
| They don't even know you. | ||
| I think we have a real problem, both left and right in this country, with attacking people. | ||
| And I hate to say this, but I think we have a problem with doing that with Trump. | ||
| Because although he has done some reprehensible things and he said some really foolish things and his ego is ridiculous, there's a lot of things wrong with him, right? | ||
| But the attacks on him and all this attacking, instead of sort of laying out A better way instead of explaining what's wrong with it. | ||
| It's all insulting and attacking. | ||
| That doesn't fix anything. | ||
| It's not going to. | ||
| And it also is going to make his people double down. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And they're not going to want to listen either. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's exactly my point. | |
| And that's what I noticed. | ||
| That's why you can never win a Twitter argument. | ||
| You have extreme one side and extreme other side. | ||
| It's like, cool, you're going to solve this in 140 characters? | ||
| The problem is also people start insulting each other. | ||
| It just doesn't work. | ||
| It becomes a contest. | ||
| It's like you try to do that and I go check and then you go check and then we're moving back and forth and you're trying to fucking get my king. | ||
| Yeah, and then like people's Twitter bios, where like their whole bios are like, here's a list of people who blocked me. | ||
| It's like, yo man, if that's your fucking, that's your resume, that's your life accolades, like that's such a bummer. | ||
| Well, I would have people block me and I never even communicated with them. | ||
| Because somehow or another I got on some sort of a list where someone decided I was a bad guy. | ||
| So I used that app and I don't know how to reverse it because now I'm friends with the legions of skank guys and I was like, oh, I think I blocked everyone. | ||
| It's called like Twitter blockchain or something. | ||
| And so I would go to your profile. | ||
| If like all of your fans are attacking me and I'm like, fuck this, I go to your profile and then I click it and it blocks everyone who follows you. | ||
| It's not just that like people there's there's groups that people have decided I've seen that that they decide you're right-wing right decide you're anti-progressive or whatever I'm like a hate lesson blocked by people that I'm like I never even communicated with this person like I've saw like a Screenshot of someone saying something absolutely ridiculous. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'll go. | |
| Oh my god. | ||
| I gotta go to this guy's page. | ||
| Yeah, and I go there. | ||
| Well, I'm blocked Yeah. | ||
| Which, by the way, you fucking dummies, all you have to do is sign out of Twitter, and then I go to your page, and then I read it all. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh-huh. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| You can't really block someone. | ||
| And, like, what I found... | ||
| No, when I found myself, like, looking through all those, I was like, I don't get the fuck out of this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You're a cautionary tale. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| That's going to be what my Edinburgh show is called. | ||
| Cautionary beta male tale. | ||
| Are you going to do an Edinburgh show now? | ||
| Dude, I think so. | ||
| All I want to do is be a comic. | ||
| I did stand-up at Burr's Festival and it was so fucking fun. | ||
| I did it the night after Stanhope's podcast. | ||
| Did you have material written down? | ||
| Yeah, I had stuff about this. | ||
| It had been the first time you did stand-up in how long? | ||
| Well, if you're not counting, like, the weird, like, slam-poety music shows I did, like, five, six years, and then it was the first time I've been on stage in a year. | ||
| I mean... | ||
| Wow, so first time you've been on stage in a year, and the first time outside of doing... | ||
| Because I saw something that you did where you were doing, like, what you're saying, like, sort of slam poetry, where you take these big, deep breaths in between each line. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's... | ||
| It's almost a performance art piece versus doing actual stand-up, right? | ||
| If you don't pause, you can't hear that they're not laughing, my friend. | ||
| Well, you had a thing going on. | ||
| It was a cadence. | ||
| It was like, I'm a drummer. | ||
| And also, when I wasn't getting booked, like after 9-11, my stuff was really political and I wasn't getting booked in New York. | ||
| So I would just go to slam poetry places. | ||
| And I just made, if I had a gay rights joke, I'm like, oh, well, let's just do a three-minute gay rights chunk. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so I started to get booked. | ||
| But some of it was really well written. | ||
| I saw this one thing that you did in front of some big, giant group of people about the Trump boys. | ||
| Oh, that was at the Talib Kweli show. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| All this shit happened right after... | ||
| Yeah, it was a real bummer. | ||
| Right after... | ||
| I'm in LA. Because I was suicidal in New York, which I've never talked about publicly. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Before? | |
| Before. | ||
| I was very, very, very suicidal. | ||
| Why? | ||
| I was just in... | ||
| I don't want to be mean, but I was in a failed relationship, right? | ||
| And I didn't have friends, and I wasn't doing comedy. | ||
| Why didn't you have friends in New York? | ||
| I had friends when I would do jiu-jitsu. | ||
| I had friends in Marcello's. | ||
| Those guys were absolutely the best friends I had. | ||
| But I didn't feel like I had a career. | ||
| And I had a couple friends. | ||
| I mean, all of our friends were pretty much linked to that same sort of progressive circle. | ||
| When I went home to see my brothers, and I could talk how I wanted to, and I could shoot the shit, and I could not police my own language, it was amazing. | ||
| I would go walk around blocks just to talk to my brother, Nick, like, for hours. | ||
| And we would just laugh and tell jokes and shit like that. | ||
| And then I've had depression forever. | ||
| And I've been self-hating forever. | ||
| And, you know, this is not... | ||
| I can't by any means blame it on other people. | ||
| But I remember... | ||
| And this kind of ties in... | ||
| This is really fucked up. | ||
| This kind of ties into what you were talking about with microaggressions and stuff like that. | ||
| I remember I tried to open up to somebody very close to me about being suicidal. | ||
| And they told me that... | ||
| I forgot the progressive word for it. | ||
| But they said it was, like, manipulative, essentially. | ||
| That you being depressed was manipulative? | ||
| Me being suicidal by telling them I was suicidal. | ||
| Because I was telling them, like, looking for help. | ||
| And now, with that said, the people who were like, if you break up with me, I'm going to kill myself. | ||
| That's fucked up, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's like holding them hostage or making them feel like they would be responsible. | ||
| That, I guess I would consider, that's manipulative, right? | ||
| Well, it's certainly not good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's fucked up. | |
| It's not healthy. | ||
| Yeah, totally. | ||
| But when you reach out for help, that's fucked up. | ||
| And so I didn't feel like I had a lot of people. | ||
| I had my family and stuff like that. | ||
| that and that's why one of the reasons i moved to la is i came out to here and i did a big show and it was great and i love la and i've always wanted to live here so once my relationship ended i was like i've always wanted to go to la i'm gonna go to la so i go to la and then um the winter right dude every new yorker who's like oh fuck la they're all like fake happy i'm like no bro they're happy happy because it's gorgeous and like we're eating avocados by the pool and it's And everyone's really nice Duncan Trussell was like I want to be a New Yorker man. | ||
| I And now he's like, fuck that, dude. | ||
| I did one winter. | ||
| I'm moving back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's the worst. | |
| He's moving back before this winter. | ||
| He's like, I can't do it anymore, man. | ||
| Dude, it's just cold, and everyone's mean to you, and jujitsu. | ||
| That's what I don't like, the mean part. | ||
| Everyone's so mean. | ||
| And jujitsu in New York, when, like, in the winter, where you'd be so fucking cold, and then you leave the gym, and you're so hot, but you have your dumb jacket on, and then you go to the subway, and you have to rip your jacket off, and then you get off the subway, and you're freezing again. | ||
| It's like... | ||
| You know what the solution to that, by the way? | ||
| It's non-vegan. | ||
| Is that what it is? | ||
| Merino wool. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| Merino wool. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| Yeah, because merino wool, when you're wet, it retains heat. | ||
| It also keeps you cool when your hunters use it. | ||
| Oh, no shit. | ||
| Yeah, there's a company called First Light, L-I-T-E, and they make really good merino wool clothing for hunting, and they're one of the first guys to figure it out. | ||
| That's cool. | ||
| And what it is, is it's a natural fiber because of wool. | ||
| And wool, it's a weird thing. | ||
| Like, if you have a cotton shirt on, okay? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you get wet from sweat. | ||
| Like, say if you hike up a hill, but it's cold out, and then you sit down, you will freeze your fucking ass off. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Totally. | |
| And it's really bad. | ||
| Like, you can get hypothermia that way. | ||
| But if you have wool on, it retains the heat, the body heat. | ||
| Even if it's wet. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| It's really weird. | ||
| So, if you just wear a base layer of merino wool, When you go out, like in cold weather, you will get wet from the sweat, but your body will retain heat. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| You stay warm. | ||
| Well, now in LA, I get to pull up to fucking Henzo's, my little Prius, and it's sunny. | ||
| I walk in, I go train, say bye to everybody, and get back in my car. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's the fucking best. | |
| Yeah, it's a different thing. | ||
| You have to lay a towel down so you don't sweat through your seats. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's it. | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. | ||
| So, yeah, so I moved to LA and I met my girlfriend and it's like the most healthy, wonderful relationship. | ||
| My poor girl. | ||
| My girlfriend was a comedy fan when she met me and not a feminist. | ||
| And she saw me at Cobbs. | ||
| That was one of the clubs that would still like play me. | ||
| And when we first met, I think she got excited that she was going to date a comic because she's like a huge comedy fan, dude. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And, you know, we moved in together and she would be like, you know, this is exaggerate, but it would be like, do you listen to Bill Burr's podcast? | ||
| And I'd be like, um, let me tell you why he's problematic and upholds the patriarchy. | ||
| And she must have been like, fucking shit. | ||
| Did you really say that? | ||
| No, but she's like, I'm dating the, but kind of, yeah. | ||
| And now, once all this shit happened, I get to discover all these great people I wasn't allowed to watch. | ||
| I'm like, did you know these Woody Allen movies are good? | ||
| And I watched Manchester by the Sea and it was great. | ||
| When I met you, I met you, you were deep in the throes, or you were beginning your journey of progressivism. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you were on your way. | ||
| But the first show we did was great. | ||
| I don't think we even... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| No, no, no, no. | ||
| That's not what I mean. | ||
| I mean, but what I'm saying is, but I knew people that knew you from back in the day, like Stanhope. | ||
| Oh, right. | ||
| He was like, I remember when Kilstein was just a comic. | ||
| He was just a comic. | ||
| He was one of us. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then he let you assume this identity. | ||
| But... | ||
| All of us are susceptible to ideologies. | ||
| Jordan Peterson had a really fascinating take on Nazism, about these people that became Nazis, and what's most terrifying about it is That if you were in their exact same shoes, you are a human being. | ||
| And it is quite possible that you could have been a Nazi too. | ||
| And that is terrifying to people. | ||
| But obviously that's a very evil ideology. | ||
| But ideologies in general, we're all susceptible to them. | ||
| I've been susceptible to ideologies my whole life. | ||
| And I have a very addictive personality. | ||
| Me too. | ||
| And I think that's one of the reasons why you and I connect, like on jujitsu and things along those lines. | ||
| Because you get obsessed with these things. | ||
| And they become a part of your identity. | ||
| And I think for you, progressivism was in that box. | ||
| It was in that wheelhouse. | ||
| Yeah, and we all crave acceptance and comfort and support and a tribe, right? | ||
| And again, with progressivism, it doesn't sound like an evil thing. | ||
| It's not like I was in a gang. | ||
| No parents are warning kids, like, I hear Noam Chomsky blasting out of his fucking stereo. | ||
| That doesn't happen. | ||
| So you don't really... | ||
| It does. | ||
| It's really slow anyway. | ||
| It's really, really slow. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's not a big deal. | |
| He talks like this. | ||
| It's not a problem. | ||
| I tried to ask him a relationship question just to change it up and he was like, I'm not gonna answer that. | ||
| Did he say that? | ||
| Yeah, and I was like, I'm sorry. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| I was trying to be funny at the end of the interview. | ||
| What was the relationship question? | ||
| I was like, what do you consider? | ||
| It was like love or like, what's your whatever? | ||
| Like, oh no, I was like, I want to do like love advice with Noam Chomsky and it was essentially like, no, thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah, I'm wearing sweaters. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| That's how it goes. | ||
| Yeah, he's got a very distinct area that he operates in. | ||
| Howard Zinn I interviewed. | ||
| He was funny as shit. | ||
| Was he? | ||
| Howard Zinn was fucking cool. | ||
| He was spry. | ||
| Yeah, totally. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No kidding. | |
| He had one of his last interviews at his house. | ||
| Spry's a funny thing to say with a really old dude. | ||
| Dude, but that was the first thing I thought where he pulled up in his little car and he had his Whole Foods bags and he hopped up the steps. | ||
| He was like, come in, I'll get you orange juice. | ||
| And I was like, alright, Howard Zinn. | ||
| And then... | ||
| He died a couple weeks later. | ||
| It was one of the last fucking interviews. | ||
| And he was like, that's where Matt Damon used to live. | ||
| And I was like, cool, man. | ||
| Yeah, he was awesome. | ||
| He was super cool. | ||
| I did not see that coming because he was really high energy. | ||
| He was self-deprecating in the interview. | ||
| Dude, it was awesome. | ||
| It was really fun. | ||
| Going back to this, one of the reasons why I really wanted to talk to you is because I think that this trap... | ||
| Of falling into any ideology. | ||
| I mean, I know a lot of people that get really wrapped up in right-wing ideologies. | ||
| I think it's a trap. | ||
| And I think that also this tribal thing that we do of attacking people that aren't on that tribe, it's a trap too. | ||
| I mean, you get rewarded for it. | ||
| PZ Myers has a whole career from it, attacking people on the other side instead of... | ||
| I think there's a way to get these ideas across where you're not going to piss people off. | ||
| And I don't think pissing people off is... | ||
| I think there's certain comfort to it, but there's also people gravitate towards you because they don't want you to do that to them. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| Yeah, and I think everyone does that. | ||
| PZ, I haven't been on Twitter in forever, but he was always really nice to me. | ||
| But the people he's also arguing against are also kind of doing the same thing, too. | ||
| And I had this fucking revelation today. | ||
| Coming in the studio when I was kind of like worst case like battle planning like ah what if you know he really hates something I say and we're gonna get into a fight and for the first time ever I was like oh I could listen to him and ask a follow-up question like I could just because that wasn't an option before because you have your especially when you start going on MSNBC and these news roundtables no one asks questions no one goes what do you mean by that? | ||
| You guys went on once, and you were talking... | ||
| Now, this is one time I actually got upset at you. | ||
| Not upset at you, but upset at the idea. | ||
| Well, time to wrap it up! | ||
| You were going on after Charlie Hebdo, and you were saying that... | ||
| The cartoons that they did were really racist. | ||
| And my thought was, it's so fucking what? | ||
| You know, even if they were racist, these people got gunned down and killed because of ridiculous religious ideology. | ||
| And this is what this is about. | ||
| This is about not being able to draw Muhammad. | ||
| Well, and I think that... | ||
| But you got wrapped up in this super progressive... | ||
| But you're also... | ||
| It was so confusing to me because... | ||
| The term Islamophobia is a very interesting one to me because it's always used essentially on the left. | ||
| It's very rarely used on the right, right? | ||
| And Islam promotes violence against women. | ||
| In terms of its suppression of women's rights, it's very ancient in its ideas. | ||
| Most religions do, right? | ||
| But that is a very uniquely suppressive one. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| If you actually took the Bible, literally, did you know the... | ||
| Okay, yeah. | ||
| If you take the Old Testament, literally, right. | ||
| Yeah, the Old Testament, I mean, selling your daughter into prostitution. | ||
| Right, but we're talking about someone who is literally taking that version of it in practice and killing cartoonists for drawing Muhammad, right? | ||
| So here's what I think you should be able to... | ||
| Here's what I've been trying to do, where it's like, I don't understand why you can't go... | ||
| Well, you can't go. | ||
| Racist cartoons are bad and hacky. | ||
| Killing them is worse, right? | ||
| You shouldn't kill people. | ||
| Or if you go, you know, that Islamophobia, racism against... | ||
| Arab people who you're just going to assume are all Muslim and not just Muslim, but all, exactly, all like extreme versions of that. | ||
| Homophobic. | ||
| Yeah, that's bad. | ||
| But being sexist in the name of a religion is also bad, right? | ||
| And I think this is what you were talking about where it comes down to, well, you got to pick a side, dude. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It's either everybody's racist or every Muslim is a murderer and it's like you don't have to pick a side and post This fallout when I've been like, I mean, here's the thing. | ||
| I've been healthier than I've ever been in my life. | ||
| My girlfriend is fucking wonderful. | ||
| I wake up at like five and I meditate and like, jujitsu saved my fucking life this year. | ||
| Literally saved my life this year. | ||
| Being off Twitter, being off social media has been fucking great. | ||
| It's been incredible. | ||
| And getting to hear, like getting to listen to Sam Harris's podcast, getting to listen to your podcast, hearing both of you guys say like really progressive things. | ||
| I don't think people know that. | ||
| I think they do. | ||
| I think you were just in an echo chamber. | ||
| But what's important about what you're saying is pick a side. | ||
| Here's the thing. | ||
| No one's running either side. | ||
| No. | ||
| This is what's going on. | ||
| It's not like, you know, you're... | ||
| It's not like it's the Dolphins versus the Raiders. | ||
| One team has very clear outfits, and they're trying to move the ball across this line. | ||
| I don't know what any of those words meant, but I get you. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| I don't either, really. | ||
| I barely do. | ||
| I know fighting? | ||
| But the idea is that these sides, they're very fluid. | ||
| They're moving around all the time, and they solidify with resistance. | ||
| Yeah, and I think when people hear middle or middle ground, they always see that as wishy-washy or not taking a side. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, you're a fence-sitter. | |
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| But I feel like there is still... | ||
| There's good middle ground. | ||
| Like the racism slash jihadism is really good, right? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| You can say that both are bad. | ||
| You can say that jihadism is bad. | ||
| You can say that fucking profiling Muslims is bad. | ||
| I don't know what's so fucking hard about saying those things. | ||
| But also, in attacking all Muslims... | ||
| What you are doing is solidifying their position as well, and you're making it very hard for them to... | ||
| Look, all religions at one point in time were extremely rigid. | ||
| And like you said, if you go back to the early days of Christianity, go back to the Inquisition. | ||
| I mean, they did some fucking unbelievably horrific things in the name of God and in the name of Christianity. | ||
| Now, if you... | ||
| Look at where more moderate Muslims are today. | ||
| There's people that are reformers that still consider themselves Muslims. | ||
| Ayaan Hirsi Ali no longer considers herself a Muslim, but Majid does. | ||
| There's a lot of them who consider themselves Muslims, but They're moving towards a more progressive ideology. | ||
| This is possible, but it's only possible if you're not attacking. | ||
| See, if you attack, then the more radical of that base, they lean to that, and they lean to reinforcing their team. | ||
| Well, not only the more radical, but even just the younger ones, where if you are a 16-year-old Muslim kid in America and you immigrated here because your fucking family got bombed in Iraq or Syria or wherever by us, and now you're being profiled and being called racist names here, it's like, that's how you make extremists. | ||
| And so it's not only is the racism racist, but it's also fucking counterproductive in a lot of ways. | ||
| That's a great way to put it. | ||
| Yeah, it's like all these wars that we say we're doing to defeat Islam, they're also creating a fuckload of extremists who maybe would have been moderate, but now their house is in rubble. | ||
| They don't have jobs, right? | ||
| 100%. | ||
| And they're just like, well, I'm going to avenge my family, and this dude says I get to go to heaven, so fuck yeah. | ||
| And this ideology and this point of view, it's applicable to this whole team mentality that we do with right versus left as well. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that in attacking, instead of explaining the positive aspects of your positions, instead of attacking the other positions, and attacking ad hominem attacks on these people, and attacking their structure, who they are, attacking them as racist, as sexist, as homophobic, instead of reinforcing the very positive aspects of live and let live, about being open-minded, and being legitimately progressive, like progress. | ||
| Dude, totally. | ||
| And I think that one of the things that I know I did and everyone I followed on Twitter did in sort of the progressive world is you would like try to out-progressive each other, right? | ||
| So it's like somebody has a progressive take on the news. | ||
| How do I make it? | ||
| Like, dude, when same-sex marriage became legal, people would be like, yeah, we'll tell that to the people Obama droned. | ||
| It's like, fuck, can't we just be happy about like one thing? | ||
| Or it's like they're finding ways, like everyone likes Cory Booker. | ||
| What can I find that Cory Booker did that was like fucked up, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course, yeah. | |
| Or, you know, like the... | ||
| I feel like you gave another example, but it's, you know, I mean, that just happened with Rose McGowan a little bit, right? | ||
| Like, she did this really brave thing by coming out against Harvey Weinstein, and then people are calling it, like, white lady feminism. | ||
| And it's like, the left is never gonna win if you can't let the rape survivor come forward without attacking her for not being raped progressively enough. | ||
| Like, that's nuts. | ||
| And I think that's one of the biggest problems. | ||
| Everybody's trying to be the best example, right? | ||
| The best example of being progressive and shit on someone who's less progressive than you. | ||
| Yeah, or the most oppressed. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Ramp up the radical aspects of your progressivism. | ||
| And the most depressed, is that what you're saying? | ||
| The most depressed. | ||
| And for a white guy like me, it was like, well, I'm not oppressed. | ||
| I'm not going to start calling myself Senior Kilstein. | ||
| I'm going to... | ||
| Be the ally. | ||
| So I'm not oppressed. | ||
| Because Twitter was a great tool and is a great tool where we wouldn't have had a lot of, like, really big, I think, social justice victories without Twitter. | ||
| And it became a really good, like... | ||
| Which ones? | ||
| Well, I think it became a good watchdog for the police violence, right? | ||
| But why specifically Twitter and not just all social media in general? | ||
| Do you think Facebook is more of an echo chamber? | ||
| Like, what do you... | ||
| Yeah, I mean, Facebook, I kind of just, I mean, at least for me, Facebook goes a little slower and I mainly follow just friends on Facebook. | ||
| But I guess you're right. | ||
| I guess Facebook and Twitter, social media. | ||
| I think the problem with Facebook is that people have the opportunity to be too verbose. | ||
| They can write these gigantic long screens and no one's going to fucking read it anyway. | ||
| You give people too much of an opportunity to be self-indulgent. | ||
| That's all I did. | ||
| That's all it is. | ||
| And then you just see it and you see a word like racism and you go, I guess I like it because I don't want to not like the big racism script. | ||
| I'm not going to read it. | ||
| But then you also become... | ||
| I didn't read fucking articles. | ||
| If the progressive person I knew shared an article and the headline looked good enough, I would share the article. | ||
| And then that's the shit that happened to me. | ||
| How it backfired. | ||
| I'm like, how many people are actually reading these fucking articles? | ||
| Reading the articles that say we could not find that quote or we could not find whatever. | ||
| So... | ||
| All this shit went down, Jezebel writes an article about you, some other people write articles about you, and you just dropped off the face of the earth. | ||
| Yeah, so I— You just figured, fuck this, I'm deleting my Twitter. | ||
| Yep, so I assumed—I mean, nothing I could say—part of me didn't say anything. | ||
| Part of me didn't say anything because I'm like, I no longer—I have to be a real person now. | ||
| I can't do shows anymore, so— Why'd you say that? | ||
| Just because I felt like the only world I knew completely was crashing down and calling me things that I wasn't. | ||
| And I already sort of burned comedy. | ||
| Well, this is what I don't understand. | ||
| Like, I don't see the big accusation. | ||
| I see them saying you tried to fuck girls. | ||
| Well, that's what happens is in my world and, you know... | ||
| Your former world? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Pre, you know, Weinstein and like, this is what real predators look like. | ||
| It was just fun to go after him. | ||
| To go after me. | ||
| Right, but also, as you said, because you had sort of set yourself up. | ||
| Brought it on myself, right. | ||
| And so my girlfriend, when it happened my girlfriend was out of town, I totally assumed she was breaking up with me. | ||
| So I'm in L.A. in my little apartment with my cat. | ||
| My girlfriend, I assume, is gone. | ||
| My family's talking to me, which is great, but none of my friends. | ||
| Here's something, I'll say this about, this is one of the reasons I came back to comedy. | ||
| I mean, besides I always loved it and I missed it, was the only fucking people that reached out to see if I was okay were comics. | ||
| Comics who I hadn't talked to in years. | ||
| None of the progressive journalists, none of the people who knew about depression or suicide or whatever. | ||
| I mean, I don't even know if they read the fucking article or if they just saw... | ||
| That word and was like, I will get in trouble if I... I mean, Jim Norton, who I knew when I was 22, I probably asked him if I could do a guest spot for him at like the Stress Factory, wrote me to see if I was okay. | ||
| Like, you wrote me a really nice email. | ||
| Stanhope wrote me a couple times to make sure I was okay. | ||
| Provenza, it was comics. | ||
| Yeah, it was comics. | ||
| Real comics realize that we're all fucked up. | ||
| And I didn't go down your road, but if I was in your shoes, I might have walked down your road. | ||
| It's very possible. | ||
| And to say that you couldn't... | ||
| I would never be in that position. | ||
| I would never do that. | ||
| I would never say those things. | ||
| That's disingenuous. | ||
| It's not true. | ||
| I didn't grow up in your house. | ||
| I didn't live your life. | ||
| I don't have your experiences, your genetics, your environment. | ||
| I didn't have those things. | ||
| If I did, I easily could have gone down your road. | ||
| Yeah, and... | ||
| You know, that definitely, months later when I reached out to Stanhope, I just reached out to thank him. | ||
| And I said something that made him laugh, and he was like, you could come back to comedy. | ||
| And I was like, no, I couldn't. | ||
| You definitely could. | ||
| Well, yeah, and he was the one. | ||
| And, man, after doing that festival and just hanging out with, like, hanging out with just fucking Bert and, like, Ari. | ||
| We had fun. | ||
| Dude, it was so fun. | ||
| It's what we do, man. | ||
| We have fun professionally. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That's all it is. | ||
| That's what this fucking podcast is. | ||
| And you know what's crazy? | ||
| My girlfriend said this, where we were talking about this, where those guys will ball bust more than anybody, right? | ||
| I walked backstage with my girlfriend, hugged Morgan Murphy. | ||
| She said, please don't rape me. | ||
| Hugged Burt. | ||
| Hugged Burt, who just said, he's touching my dick, he's touching my dick, and started running around the room. | ||
| And then they had my back so fucking hard. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Whereas, when I was around progressives, or when Diana and I were around, they don't ball bust, but they do not have your back. | ||
| It is icy judgment pretty much around the clock. | ||
| Well, they feel like they have to know when to cut you off if you do anything where you cross the line. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And it was so wonderful, where I was like, all I want... | ||
| So, before that, yeah, I assumed I had nothing, was literally... | ||
| Did you know, when you Google how to kill yourself, the first website that comes up, it's a lie. | ||
| They say, like, easiest way to kill yourself, and then you click it, and it's like, just kidding, don't kill yourself, and it's like harp music, and you're just being rickrolled, essentially, by a suicide hotline. | ||
| It's nuts. | ||
| And then... | ||
| That would make me kill myself. | ||
| That's what I was saying. | ||
| I was just like, I needed someone I could trust in my time of need, and they're lying to you. | ||
| And then I just started looking through ways where I was like, I don't have a gun. | ||
| Get a gun. | ||
| Now I'm a gun. | ||
| Dude, when this fucking happened, I'm like, get a gun. | ||
| I'm like, I'm gonna kill animals. | ||
| I'm like, I just, I was fucking ballistic. | ||
| But how did it go from, how did you stop being a vegan? | ||
| Like, what happened there? | ||
| No, I mean, I still am like... | ||
| Dude, you ate a steak with Stanhope. | ||
| Well, but that doesn't count, right? | ||
| Fuck, it doesn't. | ||
| If it's Doug? | ||
| How many times have you eaten meat since this all happened? | ||
| Be honest. | ||
| Not many. | ||
| I hate that I have to say be honest, but I know I have to say that. | ||
| Look, let's just go back to me being an accused predator. | ||
| I'll give less shit for that. | ||
| I have meat that I killed personally. | ||
| No factory farming. | ||
| You could eat that. | ||
| Oh yeah, we could do that. | ||
| I'll give you some of it. | ||
| Yeah, I'll do that. | ||
| Okay, see, there you go. | ||
| Straight up. | ||
| You know, wild animals wandering through the woods. | ||
| No, he's going to. | ||
| He's going to? | ||
| He's going to eat it here. | ||
| Should we all do it together? | ||
| We could, you know, but I don't know when that's going to happen. | ||
| I can give you some meat right now. | ||
| Alright, keep me posted. | ||
| Ian's not here. | ||
| I will. | ||
| I have two commercial freezers back here. | ||
| Do you? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This place is fucking insane. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's pretty wild, right? | |
| Yeah, it's fucking insane. | ||
| I needed a funhouse. | ||
| Yeah, I'm so excited for, like, the mats. | ||
| That comes this weekend. | ||
| Does it? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Dude, that's fucking great. | ||
| So this this whole journey that you've been on and this is again one of the reasons why I want you to come on I think we can all learn something from it. | ||
| Yeah, and I hope both communities learn something from it. | ||
| I mean Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I really think like we This idea of right versus left is so goddamn crazy and we have more common ground than we don't and I think reasonable people Think all these core tenets that we were just talking about. | ||
| We think that we're egalitarian. | ||
| We think that women should be treated exactly the same way as men. | ||
| That you should be judged by your character. | ||
| You shouldn't be judged by the color of your skin or where you're from. | ||
| I mean, the people that I know that are cool people, we have We have black friends. | ||
| We have Asian friends. | ||
| Especially in the world of comedy. | ||
| The only currency that you carry around is your personality and whether or not you're good. | ||
| Whether you're funny, whether you work hard. | ||
| And when you're around people that are funny and work hard, those people are fuel. | ||
| They're inspirational. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Totally. | |
| And I'll say this, that I was not a good person. | ||
| I don't think. | ||
| At least to the standard that I would like to hold myself when I was just wrapped up in this world. | ||
| But you were flawed. | ||
| Well, yeah. | ||
| I am still flawed. | ||
| We are, but you were using a flawed operating system. | ||
| Yeah, and also like... | ||
| But I was just desperately searching for validation. | ||
| I was very selfish. | ||
| I was really depressed. | ||
| And... | ||
| Ever since this happened, I barely watched the news. | ||
| When people were like, Trump called North Korea gay. | ||
| I'm like, I don't know. | ||
| Not to me. | ||
| I don't watch that shit anymore. | ||
| So you just stepped back. | ||
| I totally stepped back. | ||
| For a full year? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| But I mean, I'm saying this right now. | ||
| I'm just walking the roads like Kawhi Chang Kane. | ||
| I forgot about him. | ||
| I know, he's the best. | ||
| Did you ever watch Kung Fu The Legend Continues? | ||
| Not as popular. | ||
| I fucking loved it. | ||
| Not quite as good. | ||
| No. | ||
| Well, but I was like... | ||
| It's different times. | ||
| Yeah, it was like... | ||
| Less innocent. | ||
| He was still... | ||
| It was modern day. | ||
| He was still Kwai Chang Kane, but his son was like a street cop. | ||
| It was the fucking... | ||
| It was the best. | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
| It was so good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He had a son. | |
| And so... | ||
| Yeah, so the first... | ||
| That guy died with a dildo up his ass. | ||
| Hanging by his neck. | ||
| Kwai Chang Kane? | ||
| David Carradine? | ||
| That was not on the list of suicide options. | ||
| He looked up, dildo in the ass hanging? | ||
| They think that he might have done something to piss off Thai gangsters. | ||
| Because he died in Thailand. | ||
| And he died in what would be considered either a shameful way. | ||
| I mean, it was auto-erotic asphyxiation, was what they listed. | ||
| But what I've heard is, by the way, that means nothing. | ||
| But what I have heard is that there are people that consider the possibility that We're good to go. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I doubt he had any power. | ||
| It was probably just his people, right? | ||
| Yeah, nobody knew who he was. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Totally. | |
| If no one knew who he was, he had zero power. | ||
| Yeah, that's very true. | ||
| Oh, what I was going to say is, yeah, I don't want to act like this fucking hero who just stepped back. | ||
| The first six months, I walked around like I was accused of actual sexual crime. | ||
| I had a hoodie and fucking sunglasses, and I felt... | ||
| When I would meet new friends, I would sit them down and be like, just so you know, there's something I've been accused of. | ||
| Like I was a fucking Megan's Law pedophile. | ||
| And it was only till recently when my girlfriend's like, you gotta stop, dude. | ||
| Like you are owning that. | ||
| You're owning that as like a part of your person when you do this. | ||
| And to a certain extent, I have to, right? | ||
| Like if I meet with like an agent, like and they Google it and they don't read it, it looks fucking shady. | ||
| It's not, but it looks shady. | ||
| And all people do is they Google and they look at a headline and they go, oh, fuck that. | ||
| I don't want to be around that, right? | ||
| But for the second six months or whatever, I feel like I've been – my family is like this is the most present and communicative you've been. | ||
| I feel like I've been a better friend. | ||
| My jiu-jitsu has skyrocketed. | ||
| I feel like I have a family at my jiu-jitsu school. | ||
| I've become a really good teacher. | ||
| I read more. | ||
| I fucking meditate more. | ||
| I'm like an awesome boyfriend. | ||
| I have such a good, healthy fucking relationship. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And I don't think any of that shit would have happened if I was still in social media world, if I still just woke up every day and was like, what's the hashtag that I have to tweet about? | ||
| What are we angry about today? | ||
| Because that's how every day starts is you check Twitter and you go, oh, there's a popular hashtag. | ||
| I have to come up with a fucking joke because Trump did a thing. | ||
| And it drove me crazy. | ||
| And there's part of me that I am like, maybe I'm selfish, but I just I would rather be a better person. | ||
| I also forgot that like comedy fans just love comedy. | ||
| Like when people came up to me after the Stanhope show, I wasn't political on the Stanhope show, but they were like, hey man, that was really funny. | ||
| And I was like, oh, that's right. | ||
| Like you don't have to be overtly fucking preachy or political to like make someone's day, right? | ||
| Like it sounds so cheesy. | ||
| But that was the currency that you were trading in. | ||
| You were trading in progressive currency. | ||
| Yeah, and I thought, dude, the best stand-up I ever did was a story about my dad, and I almost didn't tell it. | ||
| And I was with Janine Garofalo, who's very political, in New York, and I was telling her the story that happened. | ||
| We were just walking around Union Square, and she goes, you have to tell that on stage. | ||
| And I literally said to her, I go, but it's not political. | ||
| And she was just like, no, you have to tell it on stage. | ||
| It's a good story. | ||
| It's about a relationship. | ||
| It's about your flaws. | ||
| It was totally about me being flawed and fucked up. | ||
| And it was the most enjoyable time I had on stage was talking about that. | ||
| And that's what I want to talk about now is just like all the depression and flaws and fuck ups and stuff like that. | ||
| Well, don't be a human. | ||
| Just don't define yourself. | ||
| Don't box yourself into some weird category. | ||
| And that was the problem. | ||
| But I felt like I could only talk about that stuff. | ||
| It would be like if you could only talk about UFC. And you're like, I want to talk about other shit. | ||
| Well, I've been very fortunate that I don't have to just talk about that. | ||
| But I think I've been very conscious about avoiding weird boxes. | ||
| I mean, I've been stuck in some in the past. | ||
| But I think that you can navigate this world of social media But it takes diligence. | ||
| And I think that we're the first generation of human beings that have had to encounter this weird environment. | ||
| I mean, this is not an environment that our parents grew up in. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| So it's not like there's like a body of information that we can draw upon. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, it's not like a lot of people have sort of figured it out over the last hundred years and this is how you manage the winter. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| You gotta have firewood and you gotta do this and you gotta make sure that you drink a lot of water when you go into the mountains. | ||
| Fucking move to LA. There's no history. | ||
| People make mistakes. | ||
| You become really dependent on it. | ||
| It takes discipline, man. | ||
| I logged onto my Twitter the other day for the first time to follow you guys and be like, am I going to tweet anything? | ||
| And I didn't because I just saw those notifications and I'm like, there's some dark shit behind those notifications. | ||
| I'm like, I'm not clicking. | ||
| Yeah, you just can't be reading it and definitely don't argue with people online. | ||
| There's no benefit to that. | ||
| I've almost essentially totally stopped doing that. | ||
| Occasionally I'll fuck with someone if I just am in the mood for it, but the vast majority of the time my phone is like this. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Face down. | ||
| I think, I forget if it was like Jocko or Tim Ferriss or one of those guys, but talking about like putting on airplane mode like an hour or two before you go to bed. | ||
| And then, like, not turning that shit on until... | ||
| Like, I've started doing all that, and I just feel so much healthier. | ||
| And, like, I'm telling you that when I was attacking people on Twitter every day, I was depressed as fuck and straight-up suicidal and projecting, and I was just miserable. | ||
| Um... | ||
| And that happens. | ||
| It's a rush. | ||
| You have a community. | ||
| You have people who go, you tweet, I'm having a bad day, and you got 100 people being like, dude, you're awesome. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Like, that shit's addictive. | ||
| Like, it's really addictive. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, of course. | |
| Yeah, it is. | ||
| And that's, you know, that whole sympathy mining is something that a lot of people do, too. | ||
| Oh, I did all that. | ||
| Yeah, sympathy mining, you know, virtue signaling. | ||
| It's like there's so many different things that people do. | ||
| What's virtue signaling again? | ||
| I think it's what you've been doing for like... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. | |
| 15. Okay, great. | ||
| You know how it is. | ||
| It's a really simple sort of way to get love. | ||
| And then what sucks is the important issues also get pushed aside. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Like whether or not Trump's going to go to jail. | |
| Yo, what the fuck? | ||
| We were talking about that before the podcast. | ||
| Is he going to jail? | ||
| Is someone going to jail? | ||
| I opened up CNN today for the first time. | ||
| I'm like, I guess if I'm going on Joe's, I should know what's going on in the news. | ||
| I'm like, I don't know what the fuck is going on. | ||
| I saw Kevin Spacey. | ||
| I saw people getting arrested, and I was like, I'm out. | ||
| Well, that Mueller guy's not playing games. | ||
| No, he's not fucking around. | ||
| Yeah, and he's... | ||
| I mean, that guy was the longest-running head of the FBI since J. Edgar Hoover. | ||
| And he has, like, painstakingly broke down this collusion with the Russians situation. | ||
| And what it seems to me... | ||
| As an outside person who doesn't really pay too much attention to politics, I would look at it like the mob. | ||
| If I was going to attack the mob, I would go after some low-level people first. | ||
| Get them to rat? | ||
| Yes! | ||
| That's what he's doing. | ||
| He's bringing in these dudes that were, you know, Manafort, and he's bringing in these dudes that were running the campaign, and Trump is unhinged today. | ||
| Trump is making a bunch of... | ||
| Is he losing it? | ||
| Yeah, it's great. | ||
| But you know what's interesting, too, then it just came out that Hillary and the DNC funded the dossier on Trump and they spent millions and lied about it for the past year. | ||
| Which is, by the way, you're trying to influence the political process as well. | ||
| And you're doing it by what you know is fiction, a fictional story on Trump with hookers peeing on people and shit like that. | ||
| So everyone's dirty. | ||
| And this is, I think, really important. | ||
| I think the right has to recognize that you're in a situation where you absolutely have people that have colluded with Russia. | ||
| The left has to recognize you are in a situation where you had a really corrupt career politician who almost got in. | ||
| And don't hold her up as some sort of high standard for womanhood and progressive ideas. | ||
| This is a woman that didn't even believe in gay marriage until 2013. Oh, dude, I said that on stage when I was like, if you criticized Hillary, people would say you're not a feminist. | ||
| And I was like, first rule of feminism, don't kill a bunch of fucking women overseas. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| That was another problem with my whole thing. | ||
| If you criticized a woman... | ||
| It would be one thing if you said, I disagree with Hillary Clinton's foreign policy. | ||
| That should not be called sexist. | ||
| If you were like, I disagree with Hillary Clinton's foreign policy, what a whore. | ||
| It's like, okay, well, that's unnecessary. | ||
| But you couldn't say she's a liar. | ||
| You couldn't say she is a known liar. | ||
| Because they would say, well, that's a dog whistle. | ||
| That's what you call crazy ladies. | ||
| It's like, no, that's what you call a fucking politician. | ||
| Well, when they're crazy ladies, you should call them crazy ladies. | ||
| Or just crazy person. | ||
| Let's just not be specific to gender. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And it's also like, yeah, like the whole Caitlyn Jenner thing where it's like, I don't hate her because she's trans. | ||
| I hate her because she's kind of a cunt. | ||
| Like she's a little bit of a fucking Republican cunt. | ||
| Well, here's the thing about Caitlyn Jenner. | ||
| Caitlyn Jenner doesn't believe in gay marriage. | ||
| Right! | ||
| Which is fucking patently insane. | ||
| Right! | ||
| And that's what people need to know. | ||
| You can go, you're a bad person. | ||
| This is a big male Kardashian. | ||
| That's what it is. | ||
| Who became a female Kardashian and got what he wanted, which is massive amounts of attention. | ||
| If you go back and look at Bruce Jenner, when he was Bruce Jenner, and then look at Caitlyn Jenner, goal achieved. | ||
| Caitlyn's killing it. | ||
| Massive amounts of attention, people celebrating, you're a hero, you're amazing, same dumb person. | ||
| Yeah, and that's the thing, is I feel like you should, and it sounds like such a... | ||
| Like, it's easy for me to say because I'm like a white dude, but it's like, I wish you could just judge people as being people. | ||
| Now, we have systematic oppression of certain groups of people, right? | ||
| And I think a lot of people who say, just judge people as people, they're saying that while there's like a Black Lives Matter rally. | ||
| And it's like, well, all right. | ||
| Not the best time to say it, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| But... | ||
| Well, the only reason why Black Lives Matter works at all is because it's an issue. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's a huge issue, right? | |
| White Lives Matter doesn't work. | ||
| No. | ||
| See? | ||
| It's very silly. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's real simple. | ||
| It's real simple. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, the only reason why people go, whoa... | ||
| You know, all lives matter. | ||
| Okay, but no one... | ||
| See, there's a reason why no one's saying white lives matter. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because the white people aren't being oppressed. | ||
| Well, and people were like... | ||
| Even if you disagree with Black Lives Matter as an organization. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because it was kind of run by one of them was a really not really a black guy. | ||
| You know, the whole Sean King thing. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think he followed me on Twitter. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm kind of a fake black guy. | ||
| But there's a lot of issues. | ||
| There's a lot of issues, for sure, with racism in this country. | ||
| And when you have a group that addresses those issues and the group gets attacked by people, you've got to wonder, why is that group getting attacked? | ||
| Yeah, and I'll even bring this back to, like, even with the rape culture stuff, which I did not think I would be saying on the show again, which is that... | ||
| You'd have guys online who every time a woman got raped, they would be like, well, what about men who get raped? | ||
| And you go, well, that's awful. | ||
| But why do you only say it when we're talking about a woman being raped? | ||
| Or why do you only say all lives matter after like a black kid was shot, right? | ||
| It's all the yeah buts. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, but... | ||
| But what about us? | ||
| It's like, it cannot be about you for a second. | ||
| And I was just as guilty of that. | ||
| Like, Black Lives Matter when they go, oh, they're racist against white people. | ||
| It's like, the title itself, Black Lives Matter, that's a low bar. | ||
| They're just saying we exist, right? | ||
| Like, look at us. | ||
| Like, look at us being gunned down in the street. | ||
| Look at us being killed by cops. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's not saying Black Lives Matter, therefore, like, white people should be killed by cops. | ||
| Like, there's nothing like that. | ||
| People get so mad when it's not their group. | ||
| And they always want to concentrate on people that are black that make ridiculous claims. | ||
| Like, instead of just looking at the idea behind why was Black Lives Matter formed, then they start looking at black people that make ridiculous claims like black people can't be racist because racism is power plus influence and prejudice, which is just not real. | ||
| And that's the same shit that people on the left would do, where they would just sort of, like, nitpick at these very specific little arguments, and it's like, there are bigger things to fucking worry about. | ||
| Yeah, and I think that's why an organization like Black Lives Matter gets any heat at all, because, right, if people just said, yeah, of course, cops are absolutely shooting black people at a disproportionate rate, you know? | ||
| I mean, if you just look at these incidences that we've been forced to see in the news, there's been so many of them, and these people march, and like, what that one black woman who got pulled over and refused to put out her cigarette, and the cop was telling her to put out a cigarette? | ||
| And she wanted being dead in her cell like a day later. | ||
| Oh, I think that was Sandra Bland. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, she was just like hung in her cell. | ||
| That is a fucking insane, insane story. | ||
| That woman, that cop was a piece of shit. | ||
| I mean, the way he was communicating with her, he was not communicating with her like she was a woman that just got pulled over for speeding. | ||
| Right. | ||
| He was communicating with her like she was under him. | ||
| And that he had to force his power on her. | ||
| I mean, we've seen that kind of shit before. | ||
| And if that's not racism, it's absolutely shitty policing. | ||
| Well, yeah, and that's the thing. | ||
| That's what we should talk about. | ||
| And that's like what we were talking about with the Islamophobia, where it's like you're also being counterproductive, right? | ||
| Like you want to say that the cops want to go with like Blue Lives Matter, too. | ||
| It's like, cool. | ||
| Why don't you guys should be the most mad when there's douchebags like that who pulled over Sandra Bland, right? | ||
| You guys should be the most mad to clean up your fucking organization, to clean up your shit. | ||
| And you should be on the front lines. | ||
| Like how powerful would that be? | ||
| Like them on the front lines with Black Lives Matter being like, we don't want that shit in our precincts. | ||
| And by the way, it's not even just about the way they attack black people. | ||
| You saw that woman in Utah that was arrested because she refused to draw blood on someone who was in a coma. | ||
| No, I didn't see that. | ||
| You didn't see that? | ||
| No. | ||
| Someone got taken into custody, or someone got taken to the hospital, rather. | ||
| The cop showed up and demanded blood be drawn without this person's consent, which is against the law. | ||
| She said no. | ||
| The cop arrested the woman. | ||
| Now, he's been fired. | ||
| I think most people are unqualified to be police officers. | ||
| It's a big job. | ||
| It's a big job, and I think that It should be much more respected. | ||
| It should be a much more difficult position to attain. | ||
| And I think that herein lies the problem. | ||
| You're asking regular people to deal with insane amounts of power, literally the ability to pull the trigger on a person and end their life. | ||
| And we've seen time and time again people get away with ending lives in a way and a matter that we, the citizens, don't agree with. | ||
| Yeah, and the bar is kind of crept, right? | ||
| Where now the things that you should be using hand-to-hand combat for, you're using tasers for. | ||
| The things that you should be tasing for, you're shooting, right? | ||
| But see, here's the thing. | ||
| You can't expect the average police officer to be able to use hand-to-hand combat on some person when they have no idea what that person's skill level is. | ||
| Yeah, unless the cop is fucking Stipe Miocic. | ||
| What are the odds you're going to come out ahead? | ||
| You might get your fucking gun taken away from you. | ||
| You might get shot. | ||
| I don't think they should have to use hand-to-hand combat. | ||
| I mean, look, it's a fucking insane position. | ||
| Or at least be trained better, right? | ||
| Like, people should not be dying. | ||
| You shouldn't be tasing, like, mentally ill people who are having heart attacks. | ||
| Well, it's also, there's a lot of, like, really frail people that are police officers. | ||
| I've seen them. | ||
| There was some guy that was the other day, they were pulling this guy over, and they had this guy out on the curb. | ||
| And I looked at this guy. | ||
| He had a little pot belly with these little skinny arms. | ||
| Well, that's adorable. | ||
| Not really. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Looking like I'm like this guy is a victim like if someone if me if someone just decided to turn on him and punch him in the head He would be unconscious right and he's a cop and he's like this frail cop dude I used to have a friend who did like psychological profiles for people who want to be in the police Academy and she told me some of the answers for like why these guys wanted to be cops like one guy she said Literally wrote like in his essay like I want to become like a police officer so I can finally get the respect I deserve and Oh, Jesus Christ. | ||
| And it's like, well, I mean, she didn't, like, you know, he didn't go through, but it's like, there are those people, not all cops, hashtag, there are those people who are just like, they just want fucking power they want, they got fucking bullied, they got... | ||
| And for every guy dumb enough to say that on his application, how many guys just internalize that? | ||
| That's what I was saying! | ||
| All that guy had to do was not fucking say that, right? | ||
| And, like, that guy was so nuts enough that he's like, you know what, they'll understand. | ||
| They'll see where I'm coming from, and he fucking wrote it down. | ||
| There's so many fucking people that they need... | ||
| I mean, there's a lot of people that don't want to be police officers like in LA for a while They had these giant billboards where they're advertising how much you get to start Oh, they're having trouble like recruiting because nobody wants that job. | ||
| You're essentially the professional enemy, right? | ||
| You're pulling people over most of them have committed some sort of a crime They're gonna lie to you and so they're dealing with liars all day. | ||
| Yeah, Jesus I never thought about that but that's another thing where if You also can't, just like the cops should be trying super hard to get rid of the bad ones, if we demonize every cop, then those cops who have, like, a really hard fucking job are gonna be like, well, fuck you guys. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, for sure. | |
| So, again, it's that balance where – and so much of it comes down to just like the economy and people's lives sucking, right? | ||
| Like, it's really easy, for example, for people to shit on these, like, black, like, inner city neighborhoods and they go, well, why don't they call the cops? | ||
| Why is their neighborhood trash? | ||
| It's like, well, because they call the cops and then their dog gets shot or whatever. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And so it's like people just need... | ||
| I think that's why you saw like Trump and Bernie, right? | ||
| People need fucking jobs. | ||
| They want to take care of their family. | ||
| They're not reading Twitter or the news like I used to or that most of us... | ||
| Most of us who live in this Twitter bubble, all these fucking... | ||
| So many of these progressive journalists I hung out with who were like 99%, like so many of them were like fucking just spoiled rich kids who wanted to feel oppressed. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Dude, you know, I hang out with... | ||
| All my, like, white journalist friends were, like, white kids. | ||
| I'm like, I see more diversity in fucking jujitsu than I ever did with the people who are constantly talking about diversity. | ||
| It was a bunch of white kids trying to feel more progressive or more intelligent, and I'm very much including myself. | ||
| And then I started going to jujitsu, and I was like, ah, that's what a Mexican looks like. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, well, getting back to what we're saying, I think that one of the good things about these groups like Black Lives Matter is regardless of whatever controversy, it's forcing the conversation. | ||
| You have to have it. | ||
| You have to have that. | ||
| I just think they have to be careful with what they do, like when kids get crazy and they want to block off the highway. | ||
| You know, don't do that kind of shit because that gives people a very bad impression of what your organization stands for and you're blocking off the highway and that could stop people from saving your mom who fell down and broke her head open. | ||
| I mean, you're gonna you're gonna block off the ambulance, you're gonna block off people that are that have to make a flight. | ||
| And you're saying, well, yeah, that's how you make noise. | ||
| You know, you cause people inconvenience. | ||
| No, you disrupt The very systems that we need in order to make civilization run correctly. | ||
| You don't have to do that to get attention. | ||
| So you're saying you still... | ||
| Okay, got it. | ||
| Because the problem is, and this you can blame on the media, where it's like, those are the only protests that get covered. | ||
| If you have a peaceful protest with speakers, you know, standing outside of someone's congressional office, then it's like, that shit doesn't get covered. | ||
| I remember going to protest... | ||
| You're right, but hold on a second. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| The media. | ||
| But I think the media is slowly but surely becoming irrelevant. | ||
| I do too. | ||
| The real media is what's – look, the only reason why the news – we don't even have to name an organization, but in quotes, the news is the news is because they have a long history of disseminating information, right? | ||
| But people regular people are doing that now a lot of people are doing that now through different websites and YouTube channels And I think that that's the future and we don't have to be as long as you're honest and you have a real objective point of view You don't have to be sanctioned by some gigantic corporation to get the fucking truth in No, in fact, you're less likely to get the truth out because of your sponsors. | ||
| I mean, MSNBC is owned by GE. MSNBC is the quote-unquote liberal network, and they're owned by a company that fucking can profit off a war. | ||
| Dave Rubin had a post that he did today. | ||
| Go to Dave Rubin's Twitter page about why people distrust the media and why the media is garbage today in their coverage of this Kevin Spacey thing. | ||
| Because all of these different... | ||
| Outlets were saying that Kevin Spacey came out as gay. | ||
| That was the main headline. | ||
| Wasn't he trying to fuck a kid? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Kevin Spacey came out as gay. | ||
| Kevin Spacey came out as gay. | ||
| This was like... | ||
| Let's have a pull it up. | ||
| Yeah, that sounds like we should be applauding. | ||
| Well, this is... | ||
| But this is... | ||
| It just shows you what it is. | ||
| Like, look at this. | ||
| Media. | ||
| Why... | ||
| Scroll up. | ||
| Why doesn't the public trust us? | ||
| Because this. | ||
| Now look at this. | ||
| Actor Kevin Spacey decides, declares he lives as a gay man. | ||
| Kevin Spacey announced Sunday night that he will live as a gay man. | ||
| I mean, look at all these different, the New York Daily News, Reuters, the Daily Beast. | ||
| They're saying that he's gay, but they're saying he's gay because a kid came out, where a man now, came out and said Kevin tried to fuck him when he was 14. Shit. | ||
| So this is like saying that he declares he lives life as a gay man. | ||
| God damn it. | ||
| That's not the story. | ||
| No, that sounds like a festive thing. | ||
| We should all be like congratulations to Kevin Spacey. | ||
| Not only that, he said this in this statement where he was apologizing for this thing. | ||
| This is so crazy. | ||
| But they choose to frame it that way because someone coming out is going to get a lot of people paying attention. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, and also, the link... | ||
| To link pedophilia always to homosexuality isn't true. | ||
| There are a lot of people who would consider themselves heterosexual, whether it was in the church or whatever, who are raping kids because it's a power thing and they're sick. | ||
| Or pedophilia is just different. | ||
| Being attracted to kids is different than being attracted to men. | ||
| And this is also really dangerous to equate trying to fuck a 14-year-old with just going down to West Hollywood to do some gay shit. | ||
| Well, I mean, he hasn't admitted that he did it and he said he doesn't recall it at all. | ||
| But he did say that he had a problem with drinking, and if he did do anything, he was very sorry. | ||
| And we're talking about something that happened at least 30 years ago. | ||
| So here's also a problem, and this needs to be addressed, because we really don't know whether or not this guy's memory is accurate. | ||
| Because something 30 years ago, the problem with being 14 years old is, first of all, 14 years old, you're so goddamn confused. | ||
| I don't remember shit. | ||
| You don't remember shit. | ||
| You are awash in hormones and confusion and insecurity. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That was like the last five years of my life, too. | |
| He might have had some weird run-in with Kevin Spacey that may or may not have been sexually predatory. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know what happened. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But to decide that he's absolutely telling the truth and Kevin Spacey is absolutely covering this up by coming out as gay and using that to sort of diffuse the situation. | ||
| This is sort of the... | ||
| This is almost the opposite of when Twitter declares you guilty. | ||
| This is like the news declaring you almost like innocent, right? | ||
| Where I don't know what happened to letting... | ||
| Courts decide and talk about people being accused and whatnot, where Twitter can just be like, if they say you're done... | ||
| You had John Ronson on, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Did you read that publicly shame book? | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So good. | |
| Yeah, it's really good. | ||
| And it's just like, man, these people's lives are done, and I was part of all that shit. | ||
| I tweeted about fucking Justine Sacco. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Straight up I did. | ||
| And I read that book, and it's like, yeah, you don't think of that. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Well, because it's a free shot. | ||
| I mean, that's... | ||
| Look, the worst example of that is people that are completely anonymous, right? | ||
| You weren't completely anonymous, which is why you faced the blowback. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| But there's a lot of people that just have a Twitter egg, and they, I mean, they're completely anonymous, they have a bunch of random letters and numbers as their name, and they fucking attack people left and right. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's a common thing on Twitter. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, we're seeing a new kind of interaction with human beings. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And this interaction where there's no social cues involved, there's virtually no repercussions for saying the most evil, vile shit, and then people take it as a badge of honor that they've been blocked. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| Yeah, and make it their Twitter bios. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, so it's... | ||
| It's weird times. | ||
| Yeah, man. | ||
| I just wish... | ||
| I mean, being off Twitter has... | ||
| I wish it didn't happen in such a horrific way, but has definitely made me like... | ||
| I talk to people more now. | ||
| I talk to people who disagree with me. | ||
| I'm like... | ||
| I look people in the eyes more than I used to. | ||
| I'm not checking my phone. | ||
| But don't you think this is a good thing to you, ultimately? | ||
| Because how else would you have escaped? | ||
| I wouldn't have. | ||
| Yeah, I mean it's almost like you were in a cult because I had Brett Weinstein's brother Eric on recently and Eric was talking about the the cult of progressive ideology that it literally is a cult like the one of the things the core things that people keep saying is that biology and Gender are not related You know, there's some weird things that people say in order to be supportive of trans people. | ||
| There's a lot of weird... | ||
| But these things that they're saying, they're not supported by science, and they're very culty, and everyone repeats them. | ||
| And they repeat them for the same reason why people in certain religions repeat religious phrases. | ||
| Yeah, and this goes back to that progressive thing I was talking about where, you know, to me, the reason that I wouldn't fully read a lot of those articles is because I was like, but I want to support those people, right? | ||
| And because I don't think trans people should be discriminated against. | ||
| I don't give a shit where they want to go to the bathroom unless it's like on somebody, right? | ||
| Like I don't care. | ||
| I think that everybody should live and feel free as long as you're not being, you know, predatory or like when the Republicans were like, well, it's men are going to dress up as women. | ||
| It's like that's that's men like this isn't bosom buddies, right? | ||
| Like that's like that was that like trans people are different than men who dress up as women and like sneak in the bathroom. | ||
| Certainly going to be men who dress up like women and sneak in the bathrooms because they can because it's a loophole. | ||
| I mean, they can just walk into bathrooms now, though. | ||
| Just like there's going to be people that drive into crowds of people with their car. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to drive a car. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, you're going to have aberrations. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Totally. | |
| But it's not like there's a million people right now sneaking into the women's room to try to fuck kids. | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| I mean, this is just, you can't use those individual incidences, these aberrations of freakiness. | ||
| No. | ||
| An awfulness. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And so to go back to your cult thing, I do feel like... | ||
| You would have never gotten out. | ||
| I mean, I... God, I wish this wasn't the fucking way it happened. | ||
| I wish what happened was... | ||
|
unidentified
|
But why? | |
| Because look at... | ||
| You didn't do anything wrong. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I know. | |
| Not really bad. | ||
| No big deal. | ||
| But that shit still exists and like... | ||
| God, fuck did it affect... | ||
| Like the fact that anyone would think that I'm like... | ||
| Like, that fucks with you. | ||
| Well, why don't you write a counter article to it? | ||
| So, I think eventually I will. | ||
| One of the reasons I didn't say anything... | ||
| Get it published by, like, the Meninist or something like that. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| What's that? | ||
| Or the Red Pill. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| That's what I was going to say. | ||
| Guys, I'm about to become a fucking 4chan hero. | ||
| 4chan's happy with us because we were making fun of the Radiolab thing. | ||
| I got some tweets from people. | ||
| Radiolab pulled down this thing where Shia LaBeouf put up some stupid flag and said, he will not divide us. | ||
| And 4chan went and found the flag. | ||
| It was in the middle of Tennessee and took it down and walked up to the camera and went, fuck Shia LaBeouf. | ||
| And it was on his webcam live. | ||
| And it was a great Radiolab podcast, but Radiolab took it down because... | ||
| Some people complain that 4chan is awful. | ||
| Missing the whole point of what they did was not awful. | ||
| These are individuals. | ||
| 4chan is comprised of hundreds of thousands of unique individuals. | ||
| From like kids fucking around to like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| And this incident was amazing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And Shia LaBeouf's a fucking dork. | ||
| So the whole thing was great. | ||
| We could have come together with 4chan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, we could have. | |
| We missed our opportunity. | ||
| Radiolab and 4chan like as one for a day? | ||
| Radiolab just, you know, they're again, they're on that progressive ideology team. | ||
| It's scary when you can't hear other voices. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And there... | ||
| I think there's an app they were talking about in Sam Harris' show where it tells you if you're reading too many, like, either left-wing articles or right-wing articles. | ||
| Like, it's like, hey, we're steering a little too left. | ||
| Do you want to balance this shit out? | ||
| And there's, like, an app that can do that. | ||
| Oh, so the app goes... | ||
| It aggregates your news through this app? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| And... | ||
| Well, that just tells me you're reading too much shit on your phone. | ||
| On your phone in general. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's why I've started reading books, and it's much better. | ||
| But fucking... | ||
| Oh, I forgot what I was going to say off of... | ||
| Oh, the cult thing. | ||
| I mean... | ||
| I don't know, because I still... | ||
| Yeah, so I don't want to walk around and feel the way. | ||
| One of the reasons I didn't respond... | ||
| One, Google and suicide. | ||
| And then, I should say this for my poor girlfriend. | ||
| Once she came back and, like, had my back... | ||
| Like, I said this on... | ||
| Doug actually brought her up on stage for the podcast. | ||
| But she... | ||
| I thought she was going to break up with me, and she was like, well, I kind of wish you were more predatory towards me. | ||
| And that's when I was like, I'm going to marry you. | ||
| You're great. | ||
| You're a keeper. | ||
| And she totally had my back. | ||
| That's such a creepy thing to say. | ||
| There's so many girls right now warming up their fingers, getting ready to type a horrible article. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no. | |
| He was excited that his girlfriend wants him to be predatory. | ||
| No, she was kidding. | ||
| She's just funny. | ||
| She's just a funny person. | ||
| You can be funny. | ||
| You can be funny. | ||
| Yes, you can be funny. | ||
| But fucking... | ||
| When she had my back and I kind of walked it back and was just like, what am I going to do? | ||
| There was another part of me that didn't want to write an article. | ||
| I had people say to me... | ||
| I had one person who spoke at the fucking Women's March who called me to be like, this makes my job harder. | ||
| Because when you start to call fighting with your girlfriend abuse, when you start to call a bad breakup... | ||
| Whatever. | ||
| When you start to call consensual hookups on the road predatory, it's like, this is what sexists point to when they go, all these girls who talk about being preyed on, it's bullshit. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| They point to these innocuous, normal situations. | ||
| And so that's really, really scary. | ||
| But I also had people be like, if I defended myself, and some people told me this, if I defended myself, I would suddenly look like I'm saying don't believe women or I'm saying that because I'm defending just one person, me. | ||
| And I'm like, I didn't want to be... | ||
| And I don't want to be. | ||
| I just want to be a fucking comic. | ||
| I don't want to be a voice for like, bitches are crazy. | ||
| And I also don't want to be a voice for, you know, every guy is a fucking evil rapist, right? | ||
| I just want to tell jokes and move on. | ||
| But that's what I'm saying. | ||
| This experience, in a lot of ways, sort of... | ||
| Can guide you through it. | ||
| That's what's been happening. | ||
| Yeah, I mean just and this Having this example of how it could all go completely sideways sideways And sideways, you know, admittedly, even before it went bad, it was going sideways. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because you were attacking people without reading the full story. | ||
| Well, and I was depressed then, too. | ||
| And you were looking to get this sort of response by attacking people. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Looking at people to say, yo, Jamie's on our side. | ||
| Jamie's positive. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Totally. | |
| And then being addicted to this response thing and checking your phone all the time and making sure, you know, that people are on your side where you're battling with someone and calling them a sexist, racist piece of shit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah. | |
| See how many followers This person has who just retweeted you. | ||
| That's all I did. | ||
| And now just being able to like... | ||
| Like, wake up early, take care of myself, read books, hang out with my dope girlfriend, go do jujitsu all day, and then write jokes. | ||
| And live your life as a human. | ||
| And just be nice to people. | ||
| Dude, I'm telling you, I am nicer to people not being this, like, fucking progressive. | ||
| Because I was just judging everybody. | ||
| How can you be nice to everyone if you're just like, look at that guy, he's fucking eating meat. | ||
| Look at that guy, he's, you know, he's got this fucking bumper sticker or whatever. | ||
| You're just constantly looking to be outraged. | ||
| Yeah, the attack machine of this... | ||
| Not just the progressive ideology, but the right-wing ideology as well. | ||
| It's an attack machine. | ||
| And you can't enjoy things. | ||
| Anytime you tweet, like, I went to this movie, and they're like, well, this actor's problematic, or this movie is fucking racist because of it. | ||
| And it's just like, I don't know, man. | ||
| I just had a good night. | ||
| I just wanted to go see a fucking movie. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think that people are getting tired of it, though. | ||
| And this is what I'm hoping. | ||
| I'm hoping that this sort of balances out. | ||
| And that this is a new form of communication that we're engaging in. | ||
| And people are doing it poorly. | ||
| Well, and I'll say this. | ||
| I was very surprised because I was like... | ||
| When I told some comic friends that I wanted to go back to stand-up or, like, improv-y people. | ||
| And I was like... | ||
| I was like, no one wants to hear about my shit. | ||
| No one wants to hear a rant about being a moderate. | ||
| And so many people, like, hush-hush, were like, yeah, they do. | ||
| Because they're sick of the extremes on both sides. | ||
| They're sick of all this, like, just everyone's just like, all these Trump jokes are just like so fucking, just, it's white noise. | ||
| All this white noise. | ||
| Also, these progressives are trying to out-progressive each other, so people that consider themselves progressives are also getting attacked, like the Brett Weinstein thing, where he's getting called a racist. | ||
| If you'd know him, he's one of the most deeply progressive guys probably I've ever had a chance to talk to. | ||
| Well, that was the Rose McGowan thing. | ||
| That guy I heard on Sam Harris's where if something happens to a white person, then someone will be like, well, what if that happened to a black person? | ||
| It's like, right, that would be bad, too. | ||
| And it's like, well, what if it happened to someone else? | ||
| It's also silencing. | ||
| The silencing thing is so fucked up. | ||
| And this is what people are trying to do. | ||
| They're trying to silence people. | ||
| They're trying to get people fired. | ||
| But the answer to bad speech is not silencing people. | ||
| It's better speech, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Isn't that one of the things that Nick, what's his name? | ||
| What is his last name that was on Sam Harris's podcast? | ||
| I'll pull it up. | ||
| Well, and I think that's great. | ||
| That was one of the really important things that he said that I completely agree with. | ||
| I will say that I do think both sides say that. | ||
| Like, even when I was... | ||
| On not the comedy side of the Tosh thing, right? | ||
| It's like shouting down at the female journalists or trying to get them fired is still just as bad as complaining about Tosh's joke. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| It is both sides trying to shut the other person down instead of a dialogue. | ||
| Nicholas Christakis. | ||
| That's his name. | ||
| Oh, is that the guy I was talking about? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, that's his name. | ||
| Sam Harris with a gross pop-up. | ||
| Kill those on your website, dude. | ||
| Those are gross. | ||
| Sign up for your newsletter. | ||
| I'm not gonna sign up now, Sam. | ||
| You fucked yourself with that little pop-up. | ||
| God, I hate pop-up windows. | ||
| This is the new Twitter war, just Joe vs. | ||
| Sam about pop-ups. | ||
| I love Sam. | ||
| Who knows I love him, but I hate pop-ups. | ||
| So he was the co-director of the Yale Institute for Network Science, and he wound up having to step down. | ||
| Oh, he is the co-director of the Yale Institute for Network Science. | ||
| So he was a professor of social and natural science. | ||
| Was this the guy whose wife also got into trouble? | ||
| Yep, that's the guy. | ||
| Okay, so this episode literally changed a lot of my views on everything. | ||
| Yeah, well, it's a very important episode. | ||
| What was the name of the episode, Jamie? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Facing the Crowd. | |
| Facing the crowd it was about women this woman shouted him down and you know you're supposed this is our home you're supposed to be fucking protecting us about Halloween costumes and the wife had made a letter that she had sent out and the letter essentially said You there people should be allowed to have like we'll play some of this here I'm looking at the smirk in your face and I'm disgusted. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I am sick. | |
| And I'm sick watching them argue with you. | ||
| We've been standing outside literally for at least five to six hours. | ||
| Between you and Holloway, between last night to now, we've been arguing with people who are not willing to be listened to for a long time. | ||
| And all I see from you is arrogance and ego. | ||
| I am sick looking at you. | ||
| I am disgusted watching Alex argue with you! | ||
| You are not listening! | ||
| You were disgusting! | ||
| I don't think you understand that. | ||
| And before I wasn't, before I was not angry, per se, I was disappointed maybe. | ||
| I thought maybe there was room for an apology. | ||
| You've clearly told us that you do not plan to offer an apology for your words. | ||
| You left the meeting last night to go home and then tweet, do not interrupt me, to tweet from your Twitter. | ||
| And then the Silliman's Twitter. | ||
| You showed no remorse. | ||
| You tried to let your wife leave that conversation without having answered for herself. | ||
| That is disgusting. | ||
| That is sick. | ||
| And now... | ||
| I wasn't angry before. | ||
| I was not angry before, but now I am actually angry, sir. | ||
| I really... | ||
| Do not interrupt me. | ||
| I was not angry. | ||
| And now I want your job to be taken from you. | ||
| I don't want you to have this job. | ||
| I am disgusted knowing that you work at Yale University where I will get my degree. | ||
| Where I will look back and think I have to argue with you. | ||
| No, I missed my turn now. | ||
| Sir, sir, don't do it. | ||
| Don't do it, sir. | ||
| Do not do it. | ||
| This is not the day. | ||
| You do not want to play this game with me. | ||
| Do you understand what I'm saying? | ||
| You don't want to play this game with me. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Understand that. | ||
| Look me in my face, first of all, and understand that you are such a disappointment to this university, to your students, to yourself, to the things that you claim to agree with. | ||
| You are... | ||
| You want free dialogue? | ||
| You want free speech? | ||
| This is how it works. | ||
| Someone speaks, you listen. | ||
| You do not cut them off. | ||
| You do not do these condescending gestures. | ||
| You do not smirk. | ||
| You look them in the face and you wait. | ||
| You wait until it is your turn. | ||
| The snapping is amazing. | ||
| It's just so fucking characteristic. | ||
| The most upsetting part of that? | ||
| Characteristic. | ||
| I think what upset me the most is she has my poetry cadence. | ||
| It was like she was doing the same moves and the same delivery. | ||
| Well, she was just trying to be intelligent and say something and shut him up and silence him. | ||
| But that's the most important thing is that she didn't want a dialogue. | ||
| She didn't want a debate. | ||
| He also, from what I remember on the podcast, he didn't need to be out there. | ||
| He stayed He's been out there for hours to talk to those people. | ||
| He's super reasonable. | ||
| So when she was saying, like, you're wasting my time or whatever, like, he came out to try to kind of, like, have his wife's back and, like, calling him, like, sexist. | ||
| He came out to have a dialogue. | ||
| And, like, hear them out. | ||
| But, like, he didn't fucking need to be there. | ||
| Yeah, but what she was saying, I'm going to have your job. | ||
| This is where I'm going to get my degree. | ||
| And guess what, fucker? | ||
| I mean, I'll tell you this. | ||
| As somebody who lost their job... | ||
| And as someone who has gone after people on Twitter, those people that we tried to get fired from a writing job or whatever, you don't think about them the next day. | ||
| Like, the people who tried to get that guy fired on Twitter or whatever, like, they don't think about him anymore. | ||
| Like, if he got fired... | ||
| Those are kids. | ||
| I mean, you're looking at an 18-year-old or a 19-year-old. | ||
| And intoxicated by that moment as well, you know? | ||
| Yeah, but the Twitter mob behind them, it's like a lot of me's, it's a lot of adults too, you know? | ||
| And like, if that dude got fired and his wife got fired, like, I mean, that's like somebody's life who's done a lot of really good progressives, even if he did fuck up legitimately. | ||
| And it's also the consequence of actually being able to be fired. | ||
| That's a problem. | ||
| Like, say if you were running the Jamie Kilstein show, you got your own podcast, someone can't fire you, you know? | ||
| And that's really important to be able to fully and completely express yourself. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, if you had done something horrible, the marketplace of free ideas should step in and say, we're not going to watch his show anymore. | ||
| We're not going to listen to him anymore. | ||
| That would be normal and real. | ||
| The problem with being a professor of a university is a two-fold problem, right? | ||
| There's tenure, and tenure makes professors arrogant. | ||
| It makes professors realize that they can't leave, and then they suck at it, and they're terrible. | ||
| I mean, it's really common. | ||
| It's almost like winning the lottery. | ||
| They become lazy and weak, or they become the idea, and the ideal situation is they become completely dedicated to being a professor, and they don't have to worry anymore about their job, and so now they completely dedicate themselves to being an educator. | ||
| That's what we would hope. | ||
| They don't have to worry about being fired. | ||
| Yeah, and I really hope that people listening to this, because I wouldn't have listened to that podcast. | ||
| If I brought up that podcast in my old circle, I would have gotten in trouble. | ||
| I want to listen to a lot of your shows, and I'm sure there are people who completely disagree with me ideologically who wouldn't. | ||
| You know, read whatever the intercept or democracy now or something on the other side. | ||
| And it's like, my life has gotten so much better and wider and vaster. | ||
| And I think it's made me a more empathetic person. | ||
| Because again, on the left, you just assume you're empathetic because you're on the left. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Even though you're trying to get people fired, even though you're going after their jobs, you're attacking them, and you're insulting them, and you're labeling them in the broadest strokes of racism and sexism, and you're calling them terrible. | ||
| And that's the problem. | ||
| You're framing them. | ||
| And then that makes your larger ideals, which can be correct, They don't matter as more. | ||
| Because you're not acting like a human being. | ||
| And then it's also like, do you actually even care about those groups you're defending? | ||
| Or do you just want to be on sort of the right side and get your bonus points? | ||
| That's a big part of it, right? | ||
| I would like to think I was both. | ||
| When they turned, I wasn't suddenly just like, fuck gay people. | ||
| But you did eat a steak right away. | ||
| Man. | ||
| But it was a heterosexual cis cow. | ||
| Not really. | ||
| Most cows are actually neutered. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Don't say it. | |
| No. | ||
| No. | ||
| Yeah, that's what a steer is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is that? | |
| Yeah, they cut their balls off. | ||
| Dude, but even that, like, I was emailing with Rob Wolf, the big paleo guy, and it's like, you know how much... | ||
| There's a lot of shit that vegans and paleo people could have in common when it comes down to, like... | ||
| Hating factory farms or like trying to get like the healthiest like that like animal welfare and like I mean eating so many of the these payload guys are like the majority of what you're eating should be fucking vegetables. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| You know what I mean? | ||
| And and they're just talking about health and they are talking about animal welfare. | ||
| And that's so fascinating where it's like, oh, those conversations will never fucking happen. | ||
| Well, what we've done that's a real problem is jam too many people into a small area where there's no one growing any food. | ||
| And so to solve that problem, they've figured out how to consolidate massive amounts of growing into these areas, both agriculture in terms of like vegetables and grains and animals. | ||
| I mean, it's all fucking gross. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| What they do, the way they grow vegetables is totally unnatural. | ||
| You're not supposed to have a gigantic swath of lamb that's only dedicated to wheat. | ||
| Well, and then all the steroids that they give the cow. | ||
| Dude, I saw a picture of a cow once that it couldn't stand up because its udder was so fucking big it was weighing it down. | ||
| That shit is gross. | ||
| That's actually a misconception. | ||
| It's very rare that they put steroids in cows. | ||
| What they do do is they put a lot of antibiotics in the cows because the cows are eating things that they're not supposed to be eating, like grain, and they get really sick. | ||
| And they're doing that to fatten them up to make them bigger, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly. | |
| And also that grain you could feasibly feed to people. | ||
| Yeah, you can, sure. | ||
| Also, the thing, which people don't want to eat grass, but the yield is much higher. | ||
| You know, if they can get a cow, they come to market quicker, they grow faster, but they're unhealthy. | ||
| When you get a marbled steak, like what's that Wagyu stuff that people cherish and love, that Wagyu steak? | ||
| I'm the wrong person to ask, buddy. | ||
| Well, it's a really obese cow, is what it is. | ||
| But if you eat grain and you're a cow, that's what happens to your body. | ||
| You just get fat and gross. | ||
| Chicken is another one. | ||
| People always think that chickens are getting pumped up with steroids. | ||
| Steroids are expensive. | ||
| What they do with chickens is it's really a breeding thing. | ||
| It's just like the way you make a bulldog, or how do you breed the biggest mastiff? | ||
| They take the biggest animals, they breed them with the biggest animals, and they've gotten to this position where these chickens are so fucked up because they've bred them to be so large, they can't even stand up. | ||
| Oh yeah, when their claws mold around the cage and stuff. | ||
| And they're jammed into these little areas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's awful. | |
| But then on top of that, the real issue is that these animals are on top of each other. | ||
| They're living in each other's shit. | ||
| They get sick all the time. | ||
| Yeah, that was that super chicken. | ||
| That chicken is actually healthy by the way you see it walk around. | ||
| That's just an enormous, large breed of chicken. | ||
| That chicken looks like a Sesame Street character. | ||
| It's a perspective issue, too. | ||
| I'm sure if you were standing next to it, it wouldn't look as big. | ||
| But I mean, you know, there's turkeys. | ||
| Turkeys are pretty big. | ||
| But the real issue is antibiotics. | ||
| Antibiotics is a huge issue. | ||
| Because those antibiotics are, first of all, you get these animals like pigs. | ||
| The worst is pigs, man. | ||
| Because pigs are fucking smart. | ||
| At least chickens are reptiles. | ||
| They're birds. | ||
| Their brains are fucking tiny. | ||
| Dude, baby pigs are like puppies. | ||
| They're so cute. | ||
| It's horrific. | ||
| There was a Glenn Greenwald article recently that he published about these people that got arrested because they adopted these pigs. | ||
| They actually stole these pigs from a factory farm and nursed them back to health. | ||
| But in doing so, and them getting arrested, it exposed the horrific conditions Oh, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, FBI's hunt for two missing piglets reveals the federal cover-up of barbaric factory farms. | ||
| And that is a real cover-up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because it's money. | ||
| And that's why they have what they call ag-gag laws, and I'm sure you're aware of these. | ||
| These ag-gag laws are fucking insane, where they make it illegal for people to take footage and film what's going on in these factory farms because they think it will negatively impact the business of the farm. | ||
| Yeah, and it's like, yes, it will. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It will, because you're fucking breaking, you're being inhumane. | |
| You're denying people information. | ||
| You can't deny people information like that. | ||
| And I feel like that was one of those issues that, I think Will Potter, I think I knew a couple of those guys, because Mercy for Animals has done a bunch of those undercover operations and stuff. | ||
| And that's one of those things, again, that should bring together both sides, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, it should. | |
| It's like we're all eating these animals, right? | ||
| Or you're vegan and you're trying to stop this. | ||
| But, you know, no one for the most part is like a fucking monster. | ||
| No one is like asking for like a tortured animal like this who's like rolling around in their own feces where it's like everybody has the right to know this. | ||
| This is something that I think the vegan community could be very mainstream about and should get a lot of support. | ||
| And Greenwald's always been like a softie for animals, too. | ||
| Like he does all of his like Snowden stuff. | ||
| dude has like 15 rescue dogs in brazil and like he loves animals and I'm glad this is getting coverage from these guys. | ||
| I'm glad it's getting coverage too and kudos to him for putting that out. | ||
| He's highlighting something that's a real issue and that issue is there's a concerted effort to deny people information because that information would change the way they feel about the food they eat. | ||
| And the argument is that they have to have these conditions because this is the only way to give people food very cheaply because you have to feed 20 million people in Los Angeles. | ||
| But I don't buy that argument. | ||
| I think this is just how it's convenient to run right now. | ||
| Yes, and you also look at like, what's the shit we actually do subsidize for poor people? | ||
| It's garbage. | ||
| It's like Coke and like processed food and it's like- Well, we subsidize corn as well, but- But even that is- Even that's not the best thing for you. | ||
| No. | ||
| Especially when it turns into high fructose corn syrup and shit like that, where it's like people need to be educated. | ||
| Doctors are barely educated about nutrition and health. | ||
| And if we actually had healthy food, whether it be meat or vegetables or whatever, in these food deserts. | ||
| That's why I always got mad when people were like, oh, look at that fucking fat person on food stamps. | ||
| It's like, well, it's not because they're eating a ton of grass-fed beef. | ||
| It's because their fucking food stamps can buy them Chips and cereal and mac and cheese boxes and shit like that. | ||
| But that's another thing where it's like, well, that's not a conversation we have because we go, you're either on the vegan side or this side, or you're either pro-government or you're anti-government. | ||
| It's like, there are answers, I feel like, if people put their heads together and weren't just trying to get, like, yeah, the guy who used the wrong... | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| But I think it's, again, just like everything else, there's more information available now than ever before. | ||
| And I think more people are aware of this information. | ||
| It's just so many people are distracted by nonsense all day. | ||
| Yesterday, Tony and I, Tony Hinchcliffe and I, we did a gig in San Francisco, and when we were coming back, we were at the airport, and we were next to this gal at the airport, and she's talking on the phone about the most inane bullshit. | ||
| She was talking about Amazing Race and Amazing Race. | ||
| The teams on Amazing Race are just not... | ||
| I'm so annoyed with them, so I'm not even watching it anymore. | ||
| But, oh my god, I'm so hungry. | ||
| And this place has this amazing churro, and this is... | ||
| And I'm supposed to be getting this thing at work, but I'm not... | ||
| You know, so far my pay increase hasn't come through, and when it comes through, I'm gonna save up my money and I'm gonna get this thing. | ||
| I'm so mad right now. | ||
| But this is what, you know, this is the average person's life. | ||
| It's just they get distracted by nonsense, they talk about bullshit, they're watching stupidity. | ||
| Well, it's hard because it's getting fed to you, and a lot of people aren't doing what they actually want to do, and they don't believe they can actually do it, and they go to college because they're told they're supposed to go to college, and then they're riddled in student debt, so they get a job they hate that they'll... | ||
| My point was, what I was going to get to, was that you in your obsession with Twitter and your being addicted to it and constantly checking in on it and going back to it, that was your distraction. | ||
| This woman is finding distractions in stupid television shows and bad food to eat and nonsensical raises at work. | ||
| And because of that, this occupies so much of your time between your job and your family and all this that you don't have time to think about factory farming. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Totally. | |
| And even now, I can judge that girl when I was doing the same thing on Twitter, but I could feel like, well, mine's for the cause. | ||
| Mine's not for the amazing race. | ||
| Mine's like for equal whatever. | ||
| And it's like, well, it's not. | ||
| I'm not making a difference. | ||
| I'm just doing it for a little fave. | ||
| I didn't even have enough fucking Twitter followers to be addicted to Twitter. | ||
| Well, it doesn't matter. | ||
| Having followers is not what makes you addicted. | ||
| And anybody can engage with a large group of followers just by saying something mean to someone like Glenn Greenwald or someone who has a lot of followers. | ||
| It's not hard to do. | ||
| Glenn gets shit from all sides. | ||
| Once the Edward Snowden thing came out, he became a lightning rod for it. | ||
| There's a lot of people like that. | ||
| There's a lot of people that are doing that. | ||
| Again, it's a unique time for the distribution of information. | ||
| It's a unique time because we have to sort out ourselves how we manage this information and how it's getting in. | ||
| Man, I'll just say, once I just sort of started focusing on, in a weird way, being selfish, where it's like, how can I just be a better person? | ||
| You end up... | ||
| Like, I mean, how can I better myself? | ||
| You end up being a better person, where I'm like, I don't know what's going on. | ||
| I don't know who's getting arrested right now for the Russia thing. | ||
| But I'm like, I know that, like, I'm picking my girlfriend up from work after I, like, do a bunch of jiu-jitsu at, like, a dope gym, you know? | ||
| And I'm like, I'm kind of fine with that, you know? | ||
| I think it's just a healthier way to fucking live. | ||
| Well, you know, you're talking about yourself, and you're talking about your own sort of management of your life, where it had gone completely off the rails, and now you've got it back on track, and you're feeling yourself in a good place and a healthy place. | ||
| Yeah, and now it's like maybe there is a middle ground, right? | ||
| Maybe there is a way that, like, if I start doing shows again, I can, like, be on Twitter and not be a douchebag. | ||
| You definitely can. | ||
| And I think that having this negative experience and getting through it, That's how you learn and grow. | ||
| I mean these bad these big moments are big opportunities for growth whereas The same grind day in day out you become like the gal at the airport. | ||
| It's like well these teams in the amazing ranks are really annoying to me But these churros are the best churros and their churros are dry. | ||
| You know, there's nothing happening. | ||
| Having a big moment where all these people attacked you and things went totally wrong, it gave you this opportunity for self-reflection in a way that you really probably were very unlikely to achieve without this moment. | ||
| No, I was either going to be off the Brooklyn Bridge or a bigger douchebag. | ||
| I don't know which one was worse. | ||
| You're at the All Things Comedy Festival. | ||
| You're hanging out with Bert and Morgan and Doug. | ||
| Literally the funniest people on the planet. | ||
| Fucking Ari. | ||
| The funniest people on the planet. | ||
| Didn't Doug pee on Ari? | ||
| He peed on him, right? | ||
| That might have been the day after I left. | ||
| That's so mature. | ||
| I definitely saw Ari's dick. | ||
| That's my friends. | ||
| I've seen Ari's dick. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I saw Ari's dick. | ||
| I didn't see Doug's dick. | ||
| See, now, if I was in the wrong circles, Ari could have sexually assaulted me with his dick by showing me his dick. | ||
| Like, it would be considered some sort of a... | ||
| My girlfriend pointed that out. | ||
| When he came out on stage naked, it's like, would there be women in there that'd be like, that is sexual assault? | ||
| Because I saw... | ||
| If it was a Citizen's Radio sort of a show, definitely people would be like, their fingers would hurt from typing so much to Jezebel. | ||
| They would fill the comments up. | ||
| Poor Ari wouldn't feel good about himself. | ||
| Jezebel shares my fascination with Megyn Kelly. | ||
| I read Jezebel's daily breakdown of Megyn Kelly's inane, retarded show. | ||
| I haven't watched it yet. | ||
| You know, man, we could all be nicer. | ||
| We could all find some sort of a middle ground. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| We could all, you know, we could all learn from all these experiences. | ||
| You know, I can learn from your experience for sure. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Gotta stop praying on women. | ||
| Well, I'm not a predator like you. | ||
| Oh, yeah, that's right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's right. | |
| I'm gonna hashtag you're the problem. | ||
| Oh no, everyone's doing it now. | ||
| Yeah, man, I gotta say, listening to you and Bert and Doug, I started listening to Fitzsimmons, all these podcasts about comedy and thinking about how... | ||
| You know, just because I feel like I failed, I was like, I guess I shit on all comics. | ||
| And forgetting about that, like, even the comics who say the most horrific shit on stage, for the most part, there's a lot of really cool, broken, sweet guys who, like, through all of the bullshit had my back. | ||
| Like, I remember I heard Burt... | ||
| I told Burt this... | ||
| I think actually on the podcast, maybe backstage, but I told Bert that I was going back and listening to a bunch of his podcasts, and I listened to the one he did with Metzger, because I wanted that other fucking side to it, right? | ||
| The Metzger situation was fascinating. | ||
| I don't know if Kurt wants us to be known, but he was devastated by that. | ||
| I mean, like, really bad. | ||
| He lost a ton of weight. | ||
| He was super unhealthy. | ||
| I mean, he felt it. | ||
| That e-rage, man, when they come after you. | ||
| Well, and when I heard him on the podcast and not, he gets a little mouthy on Facebook, but when I actually heard him on the podcast articulate what he was talking about, where he was like, no, I think this, so for people who don't know, like some fucking dude at UCB was accused of rape, I think. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And Kurt essentially said, you know, he made sort of in parody saying that no woman could ever lie. | ||
| And a woman is like my Bible. | ||
| It's always true. | ||
| Yeah, but he was also saying that, like, UCB said, like, they did an investigation and found this guy guilty. | ||
| And he was like, you can't... | ||
| Yeah, you can't do that. | ||
| I don't know how an improv theater can, like, yes and their way to the clues. | ||
| Like, I don't know how that happened. | ||
| They're not detectives. | ||
| No, but now this dude can fucking... | ||
| If he is guilty, he can, like... | ||
| Sue the UCB. And that's what Kurt was saying, too. | ||
| But he just worded it poorly. | ||
| And it turns out that they believe the guy is a piece of shit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| And Kurt would be the first to say that. | ||
| So Kurt was wrong. | ||
| It was a bad leap. | ||
| No, totally. | ||
| And so I listened to this interview. | ||
| And that has to do with, again, just judging people on the internet without facts, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So I listened to this interview with Kurt and Bert, and it's really good. | ||
| And I think that was the first time I heard Bert's show. | ||
| And at the end, I was like, ah, alright. | ||
| They started talking about me. | ||
| And they weren't really wrong about a lot of the stuff they said. | ||
| And I had this moment... | ||
| Where Bert who I only met once we did some weird TV show together in like Amsterdam and I only met him once and he I thought it was gonna be like him just being like this fucking faggot feminist cuz that was the idea I had of like all comics and how they thought about me, right? | ||
| And he was just like yeah, man, I was just bummed out cuz I remember like Jamie was nice and then like it just like made me sad that he like didn't stick up for comics and I was like It was just, like, really sweet and sincere and kind of, like, even, like, vulnerable. | ||
| And I remember, like, turning to my girlfriend and being like, I want to apologize to Bert more than I do these women. | ||
| He sounded so, like, sincere and sad. | ||
| And I just forgot about that, like, that sort of comic camaraderie. | ||
| It's easy to characterize us and just to lump us into this boorish group of asshole men that are misogynists. | ||
| Did you ever see that thing where Jim Norton went on W. Kamau's bell? | ||
| That was Lindy West? | ||
| It was Lindy, yeah. | ||
| Her characterization of that kind of comedy was so caricature-ish. | ||
| It was so ridiculous. | ||
| Yeah, and there are caricatures of like... | ||
| I know feminists who aren't fucking insane and who like... | ||
| But it's like she was wanting it to be a certain way. | ||
| I think a lot of people do because it's easier to... | ||
| Demonize. | ||
| Stereotype and demonize. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because like, you know... | ||
| Making that decision where I'm like, alright, fucking Rogan hates me. | ||
| I don't need to listen to that podcast. | ||
| I'll just get the information that's easier to digest. | ||
| That's cake, right? | ||
| It's like, cool, I'm just going to listen to the shows that agree with me and feed me information that says, you're right, you're smart, you're good. | ||
| As opposed to the stuff that's like, ah, I got to look that up. | ||
| I have to think about this. | ||
| I have to maybe change a behavior of mine, right? | ||
| And people do that on both sides. | ||
| And that's why it is so important. | ||
| It's like, no one is the fucking stereotype of anything that people... | ||
| Well, I think we're in a boat that's in rocky water, right? | ||
| And I think it's gonna rock left and it's gonna rock right and hopefully we're gonna right the ship and we're gonna figure out what the fuck we're doing and I mean collectively the human race has probably never communicated clear ever Yeah. | ||
| Than we do now. | ||
| And it's because of our access to information. | ||
| There's definitely going to be these groups of people that, you know, they haul off and they get confirmation bias and they shore their walls up with this group of like-minded folks in an echo chamber. | ||
| There's always going to be that. | ||
| But I think that is more obvious for what it is today than ever before. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And I think that's a good thing. | ||
| Me too. | ||
| And I think that your ability to express yourself like this on this podcast, we've been talking now for two and a half hours about it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This is a very unique way to communicate. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I think this is a way to communicate where you really get to know somebody versus someone characterizing you. | ||
| This is why I have a problem with blogs. | ||
| When someone writes a blog entry on you and you don't get a chance to respond, they don't get a chance to see who you really are. | ||
| No, and then when someone like me, who's in a position to amplify it, just reads that, you just read it as fact. | ||
| Just like you watch the news as fact, because you go, well, it's fucking called the news, right? | ||
| Well, that's why it's interesting to see it come back and bite you in the ass. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And then see your response and see you realize, like, oh. | ||
| And then go through this... | ||
| Essentially an exile period. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I mean, you went a year without performing. | ||
| Dude, without talking to people. | ||
| Like, without talking to comics with, you know... | ||
| But it was also, like, working on me. | ||
| Because, like, it's not like... | ||
| The article was garbage, but it's not like I wasn't a shitty, selfish, depressed, in a bad spot person. | ||
| There were a ton of things I needed to fucking look at myself and fix. | ||
| And was I being selfish? | ||
| And was I making this all about me? | ||
| And was I... But it's not necessarily an accurate characterization of who you are as a person. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no, no, no. | |
| But it was good for me to fix those other things. | ||
| I was like, well, I didn't do that, but I was kind of a douchebag so I can fix this. | ||
| That's why I thought comics believed that article. | ||
| And when I was talking to Doug and I was like... | ||
| They didn't read it. | ||
| No, I know. | ||
| They just thought it was funny because I was talking to Doug and I was like, yeah, man, I don't really want to apologize because I reread it and I don't think it's... | ||
| And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. | ||
| None of us think you're a fucking predator. | ||
| You're apologizing for being a douchebag. | ||
| And I was like, oh, I get it. | ||
| It was the turning on comedy, the self-righteousness. | ||
| I saw the article. | ||
| And I looked at it, I'm like, damn, Jezebel's going after Jamie Kennedy. | ||
| What the fuck? | ||
| And I laughed, but I didn't think it was real. | ||
| And I felt like, well, he's probably trying to get laid. | ||
| And he said something and someone took it and turned it into some horrific offense against all women. | ||
| And it turns out that he's actually a predator and, you know, fuck him. | ||
| He's cast out from the kingdom. | ||
| I mean, that's just what people do, man. | ||
| And one of the reasons why they do it is because they're absolutely terrified that they themselves are going to get cast out from the kingdom. | ||
| Dude, I have... | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Because everyone has their shit. | ||
| And it is... | ||
| I mean, like, this... | ||
| All the Weinstein stuff and the, like... | ||
| There are a lot of dudes who probably would be supporting this more, but are just like, Oh, but I flirted with that one girl at the office. | ||
| Like, am I like Weinstein? | ||
| And it's like, you can't compare those things. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You can't compare those things. | |
| Because you have to go after Weinstein with as much... | ||
| You know, whatever vigor as you do, like, not go after the people who are fucking flirting. | ||
| Well, the Weinstein thing, what's unique about the Weinstein thing is it is one of the worst cases you could imagine. | ||
| Sort of like the Cosby thing is to drugging and raping. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's like when you read about the number of people that are accusing Cosby... | ||
| And you're like, oh my god, did he rape people for like decades? | ||
| This was like your full-time job next to The Cosby Show as rapist. | ||
| Somebody characterized him as the worst serial raper in human history. | ||
| Dude, I heard you say that. | ||
| That's so fucking... | ||
| And I'm like, wow. | ||
| That might be real. | ||
| It might be real. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I mean, he really might be, he might have drugged and raped hundreds of women. | ||
| We don't even know the numbers. | ||
| By the way, that's another fucking example, now that I think about it, of what you were just saying, where the last however many years, he went from comic to lecturing, like, black people about how to wear their pants and how to articulate, and he was talking about manners and how to present yourself, and it's like, oh, you're covering up drugging and raping people, where it's like, you know what And that is what bit him in the ass. | ||
| Because Hannibal Buhr is talking about him on stage. | ||
| He was being a comic. | ||
| That's what got him. | ||
| I still can't believe it was Hannibal. | ||
| Hannibal being a comic saying, you know, hey, you're telling me not to swear. | ||
| Hey, at least I'm not out there raping women. | ||
| And people were like, what? | ||
| And everyone went, wait, what? | ||
| What? | ||
| Like, the average person didn't know. | ||
| No. | ||
| I mean, I heard about it way back in the day when I was on news radio. | ||
| Somebody, who the fuck just told me the other day, oh, my friend Curtis. | ||
| My friend Curtis, his mom worked with Bill Cosby. | ||
| In the 1960s. | ||
| In the 1960s. | ||
| And she was an extra on something that Bill Cosby was doing. | ||
| And someone pulled her aside and said, be careful around him. | ||
| He's a fucking creep. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa. | |
| And that he will do something. | ||
| And I don't know if they specifically said that they would drug him. | ||
| That he would drug her. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| But they said, be careful. | ||
| So people that worked with him knew he was doing creepy shit like drugging women in the 1960s. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Jesus. | |
| So we might be talking literally about 50 years of rape. | ||
| Of straight up drug and rape. | ||
| 50 years of drugging and raping. | ||
| And he did jokes about it. | ||
| That's the other thing Curtis was talking about. | ||
| He had bits about putting Spanish fly into women's drinks and about drugging women. | ||
| He had actual bits about it. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| But he got away with it forever. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Until this distribution of information that we're experiencing now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| And this is what... | ||
| Would cause Harvey Weinstein and that's why it's good and that's why you know I would never be like a social media is the problem because you know the The Me Too campaign and Harvey Weinstein and Cosby like it is good that these people are being exposed It's not good when you also then go on witch hunts right for people who like are like to get laid fucking rapists or whatever well, | ||
| that's the difference and And this is the thing that a lot of men, like, they see the Harvey Weinstein thing and they start thinking about themselves and go, oh my god, what if every girl that I ever tried to fuck came out and said, you know, John tried to, you know, he tried to feel me up or John tried to get me to go back to his house one night, you know, after we had a couple of drinks together and then, you know, and... | ||
| Yeah, because what does that look like? | ||
| Is it a guy actually pressing up against you and violating your physical space? | ||
| Or was it a guy being like, hey, do you want to come up for coffee? | ||
| And they're like, no. | ||
| And they go, oh, fuck, my bad. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Yeah, and then how you characterize that. | ||
| I mean, if you write a blog about it and you take all these women that, you know, Bill tried to fuck. | ||
| I'm going to say Bill because of Cosby. | ||
| You say John. | ||
| John tried to have sex with. | ||
| Harvey. | ||
| No, I'm kidding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm kidding. | |
| The crazy thing about Harvey is how many of them were famous. | ||
| Like, these were like famous women with a voice. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he still did it to them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, it's just like, he just had some crazy addiction to doing that to women, too. | ||
| It wasn't just simply like he was trying to get laid. | ||
| No, it's like, you are a bad person. | ||
| Because you could get laid because you're fucking Harvey Weinstein. | ||
| You are a very rich, powerful man. | ||
| He could have hired prostitutes. | ||
| I mean, if he wanted to. | ||
| If he just wanted sex. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's pretty obvious that he wanted to fuck the leading lady. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, he wanted to stick his dick in the mouth of the woman who was in the movie. | ||
| And no, while he was watching the movie, I came in her mouth. | ||
| I did that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Oh, boy. | ||
| Yeah, you don't want to get that rich. | ||
| But, you know, that also... | ||
| What's this? | ||
| New one? | ||
| Accused of raping employee in the 70s. | ||
| Oh, God. | ||
| As more women come forward. | ||
| It's a goddamn rape fest out there. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it's, you know, it's horrible, right? | ||
| And it also reinforces a lot of negative ideas that women have about men, too. | ||
| That's another part of the problem is that they would go, look, we were right. | ||
| There is a rape culture. | ||
| Look, we're right. | ||
| You know, men do all do this. | ||
| Well, and I think if people could actually go after these rapists, then again, same thing with all of the middle ground issues we were kind of finding, right? | ||
| Where it's like, well, let's go after the actual bad guys and then not make... | ||
| If there's a day where there's not a rapist, instead of looking for who can we be mad at for being sexist, just go enjoy the day. | ||
| There doesn't always have to be a new bad guy. | ||
| You can just go after the legit fucking predators and rapists and Yeah, there's plenty of actual real targets. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| You don't need to invent them. | ||
| And also, is that the thing to do? | ||
| Or is the thing to do to try to educate humans as to how to behave with each other? | ||
| And one of the reasons why he got away with it is because he had this extreme amount of power to control the future of these women. | ||
| And so that's how he got away with getting them to do these things and keep their mouths shut because he held this incredible power over them because he could control their future, their career. | ||
| He had the money and the influence to get them and give them the career that they desired. | ||
| Yeah, it was that legit casting couch cliche. | ||
| It's just like, oh, it was real and it was him and it was gross. | ||
| Whitney Cummings knows people that know the whole inside story. | ||
| And what she said is like, what you're hearing is all the women that said no. | ||
| She's like, do you know how many famous women said yes? | ||
| Like, but gradually said yes, you mean? | ||
| No, no, they did it because it was a deal. | ||
| They made a deal. | ||
| This is how I get the leading part. | ||
| This is how I get, you know, influence over editing. | ||
| This is how I get more lines. | ||
| This is how I get... | ||
| And literally, they negotiated this. | ||
| And she said he literally would negotiate certain aspects of their careers with sex. | ||
| And these women did it. | ||
| And, you know, some of them probably begrudgingly and some of them willingly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Some of them happily. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Who knows? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But it's just, what you're seeing is, this is how this guy operated. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You saw the Harvey Levin, that was his name, who released all the various aspects of the contract that he had, where they had worked in sexual harassment claims. | ||
| No, he would get fined a certain amount. | ||
| Oh, how he couldn't, yeah. | ||
| Like $100,000 for one, $250,000 for the second one, $500,000 for the third. | ||
| Naughty boy, fine. | ||
| Yes, yes, yes. | ||
| Like literally, but negotiated into the... | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| Here it is. | ||
| According to the contract, if Weinstein treated someone improperly in violation of the company's code of conduct, which obviously means rape... | ||
| He must reimburse the Weinstein Company for settlements or judgments. | ||
| Additionally, you will pay the company liquidated damages of $250,000 for the first such instance, $500,000 for the second, $750,000 for the third, and a million dollars for each additional instance. | ||
| So the contract is like, look, you're gonna get raped. | ||
| We know. | ||
| We know you're a piece of shit. | ||
| So we want to protect ourselves from your piece of shit ways. | ||
| It is 100% known. | ||
| The contract says as long as Weinstein pays, it constitutes a cure for the misconduct and no further action can be taken. | ||
| Translation, Weinstein could be sued over and over and as long as he wrote a check, he keeps his job. | ||
| Which is fucking crazy. | ||
| It's just like they made a deal with the devil. | ||
| They knew what they were doing. | ||
| Like, he just had a pile of, like, rape checks and could just dole them out. | ||
| It's just amazing that this went on for so long. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that they literally had negotiated this into a contract. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| I mean, that is fucking... | ||
| But it takes that to change the culture. | ||
| It takes the exposure... | ||
| Like that cartoonish level. | ||
| Yes, yes. | ||
| It takes that to change the culture. | ||
| And then all the people that are terrified of being outed like him now will recognize the consequences of those actions, and hopefully they're going to change their ways. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's what we're hoping. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, yeah, you don't... | ||
| But these are fucking... | ||
| You don't, like, rub your hard dick against your employee, right? | ||
| Unless your employee likes it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And how do you know until you do it? | ||
| There lies the problem. | ||
| I was reading some fucking article, not an article, an advertisement from, it was like the 1920s. | ||
| And it was an advertisement for a type of like antiseptic gum, like a Listerine type gum. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it was how to kiss a woman. | ||
| Is that you, you know, you look in her eyes. | ||
| You do not ask for permission. | ||
| You just do it. | ||
| It's amazing like that, but it just shows you the way our culture shifted from the 1920s to today. | ||
| I mean a hundred years of progress and people recognizing like hey, no, you can't just stare at a woman and then fucking kiss her and not ask permission. | ||
| Like you just just like be confident and strong like no, no, no, no. | ||
| What if you're gross? | ||
| Yeah, she doesn't Sometimes, here's the problem, sometimes that works. | ||
| If the woman is really attracted to you and you're really attracted to her and you look at each other and you don't have to say anything and you kiss, but you don't know when the fuck that is, how do you know? | ||
| And you definitely can't put that in a gum ad, you piece of shit. | ||
| But they didn't know that in the 1920s because no one was there to tell them. | ||
| Like, they were dealing with the information that they got just from communicating with their friends and the people they worked with and the limited amount of media that they had at the time. | ||
| Some dude was like, yeah, there was just some fucking girl and I kissed her and they were like, got it, put it in the ad. | ||
| Check. | ||
| How did you meet your wife? | ||
| Well, I looked her in the eye, I didn't ask permission, I kissed her. | ||
| And now we're married and we have a happy family. | ||
| And that's how you do it, like a fucking man. | ||
| Chew gum. | ||
| Yeah, chew gum. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But... | |
| That was how much information they had to go off back then. | ||
| Whereas today, I mean, if you ask me, like, hey, how do you know when to kiss a girl? | ||
| Will he kiss her? | ||
| No. | ||
| Teeth whitened. | ||
| Three shades of day. | ||
| That's a different one. | ||
| But it was a yellow ad. | ||
| Upper left. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| Do you know how to kiss a girl? | ||
| Then learn. | ||
| Stand facing her. | ||
| Do not tell her your intentions. | ||
| Do not ask permission to kiss her. | ||
| Look dreamily into her eyes. | ||
| Look dreamily into my eyes, Jamie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Look. | |
| Let me see dreamy. | ||
| Dreamily. | ||
| Am I a predator? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no. | |
| You're dreamily. | ||
| You're looking dreamily. | ||
| I don't know how to do it. | ||
| I can't act. | ||
| You may hold her right hand in your right hand if you wish. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hmm. | |
| It is well to sigh a couple times about this stage of the game. | ||
| What? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| Whisper softly that her rosebud lips reminds you of Cupid's bow. | ||
| Holy shit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| She will probably drop her eyes and blush when you say that. | ||
| Place the fingers of your left hand under her chin and tilt back her head slightly. | ||
| Draw her attention. | ||
| By the way, this is all like... | ||
| You can see it in a... | ||
| You can see the cartoon of it. | ||
| Yeah, this is all one ad? | ||
| And the guy's dressed like a cop. | ||
| Draw her gently towards you. | ||
| Do not hurry. | ||
| Gaze deeply at the love lights which slumber in her eyes. | ||
| Sigh once more. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Holy shit. | |
| The sighing thing. | ||
| The editing. | ||
| You need to edit this thing. | ||
| This is terrible writing. | ||
| Incline your head towards her until your lips. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But wait! | |
| All caps. | ||
| Do not kiss her until you know that she uses listerated pepsin gum. | ||
| The only antiseptic gum in the world. | ||
| The only chewing gum that makes it safe to kiss. | ||
| Safe to kiss. | ||
| Wait, so you're being a creep, but then you're putting the onus on her to use the thing? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly. | |
| Oh, that's some bullshit. | ||
| That's sexist. | ||
| If she is a Listerated Pepsin gum girl, kiss her. | ||
| Oh, that's not like a really bad penthouse letter, not a fucking gum ad. | ||
| Is it 1911? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Copyright 1911. Common Sense Gum Company. | |
| What is it? | ||
| Common? | ||
| C-O-M-M. But it looks like E-N. Just a shitty font. | ||
| Old font. | ||
| Blurry font. | ||
| Common Sense Gum Company. | ||
| Common Sense Gum Company. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| 1911. Well, that's, you know, limited access to information. | ||
| Just the fact that that would be... | ||
| Torn to shreds if somebody tried to write that today and put it in an ad and like say Esquire or something. | ||
| Yeah, but that's it just shows you the evolution of human culture. | ||
| Yeah, I mean and I think we're experiencing that totally and And I think there's a lot of good. | ||
| I think, like, yeah, that shit shouldn't happen. | ||
| You shouldn't just be creepily sighing into a girl's mouth. | ||
| That sighing stuff is bizarre. | ||
| It works. | ||
| Here's the thing. | ||
| If a man and a woman are deeply attracted to each other, and she's a moron, and you're a moron, and you say, moron, thanks. | ||
| She's like, oh, Cupid's bow. | ||
| And next thing you know, wait a minute, what kind of gum are you using? | ||
| What kind of gum should I use? | ||
| Yeah, I mean... | ||
| Who are we to judge? | ||
| Jamie Kilstein? | ||
| That should be the name of this episode. | ||
| Who are we to judge? | ||
| Jamie Kilstein? | ||
| No, not even who are we to judge Jamie Kilstein, but, you know, comma, Jamie Kilstein. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I love it. | |
| Who are we to judge? | ||
| I support that. | ||
| Yeah, who are we to judge? | ||
| Listen, come back to being a comedian. | ||
| An actual comedian. | ||
| I want to. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think you're back. | |
| Yeah, I think I'm back. | ||
| Start showing up. | ||
| Start doing some sets. | ||
| Call in for spots. | ||
| I gotta figure out how to do that. | ||
| Eh, you'll figure it out. | ||
| I'll just start showing up. | ||
| Weird. | ||
| You'll get back in. | ||
| You'll get back in. | ||
| That's what I'm gonna try to do. | ||
| Beautiful. | ||
| That show was so fucking fun and being around comics was so fun. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I forgot how much I love comedy. | ||
| My girlfriend's much happier. | ||
| You took a break, bro. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's what I'll say. | |
| And they'll be like, why'd you take a break? | ||
| And I'm like, I don't agree. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'll talk about that. | |
| Progressivism. | ||
| I got sick. | ||
| I got sick. | ||
| I got sick with the left. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Thanks for doing this, man. | ||
| No, thanks. | ||
| This was so fun. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm glad it worked out. | |
| I'll get back on Twitter. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, be careful with that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I won't check my mentions. | ||
| But it worked. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Don't for a day. | ||
| They will come for you, especially if they know you're vulnerable. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They're like wolves. | |
| Oh, that's true. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Thank you, man. | ||
| Yeah, you're the best. | ||
| Glad we did this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Me too. | |
| It was great. | ||
| I'm glad you did it. | ||
| All right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| We will be back tomorrow with Colin Moriarty and Owen Benjamin on Wednesday. | ||
| See ya. |
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