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Jan. 26, 2017 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:38:38
Joe Rogan Experience #906 - Henry Rollins
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henry rollins
02:07:44
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joe rogan
29:26
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craig jones
00:01
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Speaker Time Text
joe rogan
I appreciate it.
I'm really looking forward to it.
Two, one, boom, and we're live.
Henry Rollins, we are live.
henry rollins
Alright.
joe rogan
I like how you do the one ear off.
That's the Jim Norton approach.
He likes that.
henry rollins
Yeah, I've always done it this way, so I can hear the room and hear me as well.
joe rogan
Keep your eye on the door.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
One of those guys.
So listen, man, I heard you on Ari Shafir's podcast.
Ari's one of my best friends.
henry rollins
Yeah, he's a good guy.
joe rogan
I love that guy.
henry rollins
Yeah, he's funny.
joe rogan
He is very funny.
henry rollins
We were both doing his thing at that club, right?
You tell the story?
joe rogan
Yes.
henry rollins
And I saw yours, and I think I did like the month after you, so I saw yours on the internet, and then I did one, and he's the host, and that's how I met him.
joe rogan
This is not happening, yeah.
henry rollins
Yeah, that's it.
joe rogan
And didn't you guys meet somewhere?
henry rollins
Yeah, last year in August at the Fringe Festival, he was doing like 30 nights there, and I was doing like five.
And so I guess the agent said, hey, do this thing with Ari Muntz.
Sure!
And so he met me in the lobby where I was staying, and he brought his gear, and we just did it.
joe rogan
It was cool because there was background noise.
henry rollins
You could tell you guys were doing it.
Revelers outside.
I mean the whole that whole part of Scotland is full of people for 30 days.
It's amazing.
joe rogan
Well, what was amazing is the way you're living your life, man.
It's really fascinating.
unidentified
Oh, thank you.
joe rogan
You know and this the conversation that you guys had it really blew me away because You're really doing it.
You know what I mean?
henry rollins
Like trying.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're really doing it Like you pick a spot on a map and you just fucking go there.
Yeah, you don't know anybody there No, you go by yourself and you just fucking hang out see what happens.
henry rollins
Yeah Yeah, and that's usually, like, say I'll go to a place like Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia, for like five days or whatever.
For two days, you get a tour guide, just so you can get the history, like this museum, not that one, this temple, not those two, just whatever.
And what I always try and do in a place like that is get the tour guide and break them.
And I'm like, okay, so tell me about the corruption in your government.
Well, sir, we don't have any.
Ma'am, I'm going to ask you one more time.
And by the afternoon, they finally submit.
I'm like, okay.
And when I was in Mongolia, the woman, by the end of the day, she said, you know what, I called this guy.
He's like this total insurgent rebel guy.
He wants to meet you.
And I'm going to be the translator because he and his guys are starting movements in this country to overthrow the government and he really wants to meet you.
I said, I really want to meet him.
Because they're rebelling against the government who's selling out that country for the titanium, the copper, all the mining.
I think to some Ivanhoe, some Canadian extractive firm.
Anyway, we go like an hour out of town to some spy bar.
Where there's like nobody and you walk and everyone's like, you must be on the up and up.
And I sit at this table with this guy just because I was able to take the tour guide and be like, tell me everything.
And I'll do that for a couple of days and try and get a real understanding of where I am.
And then I just leave the hotel or the tent, whatever I'm staying in, with my camera, my backpack, with some water.
And I just start walking.
I go, well, here's the street.
Look at that slum or that village or that souk or that bazaar.
And I go.
And so far, all ten fingers still work.
And I've been to about a hundred countries in all seven continents.
And the only times I've almost been killed, which was twice, was America.
By comparison, the rest of the world has been very friendly.
joe rogan
Where were the places where you were almost killed in America?
henry rollins
In California, a couple of times, nearly stabbed to death, and a guy shot at me and my friend, and he killed my friend but didn't kill me.
And so that was real close.
You know, that's real.
But the rest of the world, by comparison, I was in Pakistan when Bhutto was assassinated.
She was killed in Rawalpindi.
I was in Islamabad, a few miles down the road.
And I was there for a week because the airport shut down.
And I went outside every day.
And no one...
They just asked if I was lost, if I needed help getting back.
They thought I was like a journalist or embassy.
I went, no, I'm just a traveler.
And they said, basically, sorry, you have to see our country in this state.
I'm like, no, I don't get to judge.
And so I've had...
Travel experiences all over the world where I'm met by just amazing generosity and kindness and humility, and it informs kind of how I comport myself.
But that's what I try and do.
I try to live an eventful life.
Like, I work at it.
It's not by chance.
Like, you give me six weeks off or I know I'm clear, I just whip out my high-res GIF file of the map of the world, and I pick one country and go, okay, then I'll just go east from there.
Like China, Mongolia, Bhutan, Tibet, Vietnam, back to LA. And I'll just go do that.
joe rogan
I want to get back to this, but what happened with your friend in California?
Is this the same sort of a thing where you just wanted to check out a place?
henry rollins
No, no, no.
We were robbed and the guy started shooting.
And the guy killed my friend and shot at me and just missed me very closely.
But that was a big turning point in my life.
I mean, that changed everything for me.
unidentified
When was that?
henry rollins
25 years ago.
But, you know, it changes everything that you think about everything.
I mean, I think everyone goes through trauma like that in their own way because it taps into everything you've ever done in your life beforehand.
But that was, you know...
Not to be crass, but that was a game changer.
But on the bigger topic of danger, the world is a dangerous place, as you know.
But at the same time, I don't think it's to be feared.
Because then you don't get anything done.
I mean, you live in America.
I live in America.
We're the roughest room I've ever been in.
I mean, we're a coast-to-coast Phillies flyer game.
You know, we are blood and teeth on the ice.
I mean, we are...
Because of freedom.
We're very free.
And people just, you know, walk up and, you know, smack you.
I And I've never been to a country as free as America.
I've been to countries that were way more hectic, like don't get caught outside at night, like, you know, downtown Nairobi or, you know, parts of Russia are kind of scary, just because they're living hard.
But as far as a place where anything can happen, America is like easily the hairiest place I've ever been day to day.
joe rogan
Really?
henry rollins
Baghdad was intense.
I was in Iraq for a few days.
But that wasn't real.
I was there on a USO trip, so you're just kind of camping out in the green zone.
joe rogan
What initiated this crazy thirst for travel, this wanderlust that you've got?
Is this something you've always had?
henry rollins
A combination of things.
When I was young, I was born and raised in Washington, D.C. And I lived down the road from the National Geographic Museum with a big whale in the front.
And the Smithsonian.
And whenever there was a snow day, my mom, she worked for the government downtown.
I'd get on the bus with her and we'd go downtown.
I'd spend the whole day at the Smithsonian.
Dinosaur bones, astronauts, you know, all that kind of stuff.
It was fascinating.
And my mom would save up her meager pay.
And she would save up for years.
She was like art nut.
So we'd go hit the museums in Italy, go to the museums in France, go to see all the islands in Greece, go to England, see the National Museum, look at Shakespeare and Chaucer's handwriting.
And so by the time I was a little kid, by 11 years old, like fifth grade or thereabouts, I'd been to Greece and Italy and England and different countries.
And so I kind of...
Wanted more of that and when you grow up with National Geographic magazine you look at the pyramids you look at the sinks and you like I want to see that like that doesn't look real and Then eventually I did go to all those places You know I stood in front of the stinks more than once in the the Great Pyramid in Giza It's bigger than you think it's like you kind of just it hypnotizes you stare at it all day.
joe rogan
Have you been recently?
henry rollins
I haven't been for a few years.
I've been there like three times.
joe rogan
I want to go, but I just keep hearing sketchy things about Egypt right now.
henry rollins
Yeah, yeah, it is sketchy.
It'll always be sketchy.
Because their GDP is you showing up and going to the pyramid.
It's like Las Vegas, but pyramids.
You can see your hotel from the pyramid.
They've made a highway that goes from the cluster of hotels.
It's like the Giza Highway.
Because what do you want to see?
The pyramid.
And so they take you right there, like seven minutes.
You're standing in front of these things.
And people are trying to, you know, sell you stuff.
I would go without hesitation.
You wouldn't have a problem.
joe rogan
Well, I need to go.
A buddy of mine, this has been on the podcast, his name is John Anthony West, and he's created these incredible DVD series called Magical Egypt.
He's an Egyptologist, like one of the most knowledgeable guys I've ever met in my life.
henry rollins
Yeah, there's a lot to know.
I mean, you can spend your whole life just studying one dynasty.
There's so much.
Yeah, I'm just a casual fan.
joe rogan
Yeah, I was planning on going with him, but unfortunately he was just diagnosed with stage 4 cancer.
A lot of you might not know about that.
If you do know and you hear about it, you can Google it, but I put a link up before to try to help him.
henry rollins
That's sad.
joe rogan
Yeah, not good.
He's an older gentleman, and he's been...
He's been trying to educate people on Egypt for a long time because he's a scholar when it comes to ancient Egypt, and he's one of those people that's actively trying to kind of rewrite the history of Egypt as far as how far back it goes.
They've got some pretty rock-solid evidence to point to the idea that Egypt is a civilization that was probably very, very advanced many, many, many thousands of years ago, and then some sort of a natural cataclysmic disaster, probably asteroidal impacts or something like that, around 10,000 years ago, sort of reset society and civilization, and then they rebuilt from there with whatever was remained.
henry rollins
That's interesting.
I mean, they benefited from having the Nile.
joe rogan
Yeah.
henry rollins
Because the Nile, you know, the water's rich with nutrients, so agriculture was huge.
And people lived good lives.
You know, the Nile, it's massive.
There's parts of it that are still like a lake.
And then when you see it, like in northern Uganda, South Sudan, like right when you cross the border, you go across this river, like, you know, Category 5, whitewater roaring.
That's the Nile.
I mean, it has a lot of different...
Wow.
joe rogan
Faces to it now this this wanderlust that you have this like crazy touring thing where you just pick out a spot and go how long you been doing that?
henry rollins
I Did conventional you know I used to do a lot of rock and roll and rock and roll will get you all over Europe Japan Australia New Zealand Places like that, but it won't get you to Egypt Morocco Tunisia Mongolia necessarily and so in the 90s, you know I'm like anyone else in this business you do every interview and And they say, you're pretty well-traveled.
And I always have to say, well, caveat, I've never been to the African continent.
And then one day I went, well, why not?
And so I did some research.
What do you got to do?
You got to go get a bunch of shots.
Like a lot of them.
Makes you sick for like a whole day.
They put so many vaccines into you.
And so you go to the travel doctor and you show them what countries you're going to.
They go, well, and they just line up syringes.
And they got on either side of me and just like just were just Charlie horsing me in both arms.
And they said, now you're ready to go.
So I just said, well, I'm going to go to Kenya.
I'm going to go to Maasai Mara on the Tanzanian border to see giraffes and zebras and lions and all of that, and the Maasai.
All of that was great.
I went from there to Madagascar.
I just said, Madagascar, you better go.
Because I saw it one day.
I was on a flight from Melbourne or Sydney to Perth, going across Australia, and I was whipping out the map on the airplane magazine.
I said, so there's Madagascar.
I did not know.
I better go.
And it was one of the better trips I ever did.
I was at my office one day, near the end of 1997, I think.
And I know that Black Sabbath is getting back together with the original lineup to do two shows at the Birmingham NEC in England.
So I called Sharon Osbourne.
I said, Sharon, I got this great idea.
I fly out and hang out with Black Sabbath and bro down with a band and go to band practice and have a really good time and you put me on the guest list for the shows and I hang out for free and it's like the best time I've ever had knowing she'd hang up on me and she said let me call him and ask him if that's okay because I already knew Ozzy but I didn't know the rest of the guys and she called me later that day she said oh they think it's fine here's the address just let us know when to expect you so I booked it I booked it around my trip to Africa So I went USA,
London, bus up to Wales where they were practicing.
Taxi, no, no, Ozzy's assistant came and got me.
So I hung out with Sabbath at band practice, me and the band in full band rehearsals, the best.
Watched the shows, the two reunion shows at the soundboard.
And then the next day I flew to Kenya.
And so it was just a good, you know, that was a good chunk of travel.
And I ended up in South Africa after all of that and said to myself, okay, I'm going to come to Africa once a year.
And I just started picking out different chunks of it.
And it just started going.
And that was 20 years ago.
And I've been there, I don't know, like 20 sometimes.
unidentified
Wow.
henry rollins
Yeah.
And you never don't learn.
You know, I call it the big book.
It's where you learn about life and death.
And, oh, you can learn that anywhere.
But you see big stuff.
You see people who suffer painfully.
People who have no food or water or security.
Like you and I, we talk about retirement and life insurance and vacation.
A lot of tribes, there's no words or even ideas in their lives.
Like, I was hanging out with some Acholi people once in Uganda a few years ago, and I had a translator.
It's a Dinka guy who spoke, I guess, whatever Acholi people speak.
And I said, I asked them if they have any words in their language for life insurance, retirement, or vacation.
And they understood retirement.
You get too old, your kids take care of you.
But a vacation, they said, you leave somewhere and you come back?
Why would you want to leave your home?
It's where all your friends are and your family.
Why would you ever do that?
Or like life insurance.
They're like, what the hell are you talking about?
And you start meeting people regularly.
Who, their sense of time and space is, I've got a bowl, there's some rice in it, it's like today I got.
Tomorrow, we'll see.
Where you and I think, okay, in December I'm going to do this.
And we really have a realistic expectation of being alive and breathing in December.
And in your life you've no doubt thought of, okay, when I retire, or whatever that means to you.
Money, some kind of security up the road.
There's parts of the world where people live their entire, like, 37 years.
And they don't have a day of that kind of security.
They got the t-shirt, a stick, and some shade.
And I try and...
Not as some voyeur.
I'm trying to understand the world.
And I can understand it by reading some books and seeing some documentaries.
But there's nothing like getting out into what Mark Twain called the territory.
A phrase I stole from David Lee Roth when he said it to me.
And...
David Lee was actually a real inspiration to do a lot of traveling.
Because one time we were talking, and he'd just come back from open sea kayaking in the Pacific.
So I said, so why?
He said, Henry, it's because don't get eaten today is a great thing to have on your to-do list every once in a while.
I said, damn, that is profound.
joe rogan
You know what he was doing up until recently?
He moved to Japan, didn't know anybody there, and he was taking kendo lessons.
He was learning how to sword fight from a Japanese master.
henry rollins
Yep.
With his dog.
No, no, he told me.
He called me one Sunday a while ago.
I helped him with his autobiography, so I worked with Dave really closely for many, many months.
I met him when I was in Black Flag 30-some years ago.
I walked by him at an art gallery, and I went, wait a minute.
And he went, Black Flag, right?
unidentified
I'm all like...
henry rollins
No way!
It's the Van Halen guy.
We became buddies.
But he called me from Japan and said, you know, he's learning Japanese.
He's very smart.
And he was, like, learning Japanese and started speaking Japanese.
And he's just taking lessons.
You know, he said the sword guy was just, like, every day, just like, you're stupid!
Just, like, just breaking him down.
joe rogan
Yeah, and he just got an apartment there.
Rockstar just gets this normal apartment with his dog and just starts taking kendo lessons every day.
henry rollins
I think Dave has always had a greater appreciation of that kind of discipline.
I mean, he comes up through martial arts since he was a kid.
And I think someone else in his family is into it, but he's been that way, that kind of discipline.
You can see it on stage.
The guy is very physical, but it's coming from a real disciplined, not messing around kind of aggression and control.
And Dave really loves Japan.
He called me and said, I'm living in a small apartment.
I'm taking my language lessons.
I'm taking my martial arts stuff.
And he was doing sword stuff for quite a long time, though.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's always been involved in martial arts, and even the way he sort of approached hedonism, I always felt like it was sort of like an applied approach to hedonism.
Like his rock star lifestyle thing, what he was doing, it's almost like, look, not a lot of people get a chance to do this, I'm gonna do it.
henry rollins
Yeah, one time he, when we were working on his book, he said, you know, I go home to Pasadena now and then, where, you know, born and raised, and some of his high school buddies see me, like, well, Dave, you know, must be nice, you know, being David Lee Roth.
And he said, you know what?
On graduation day from high school, we all were on the same starting blocks.
You chose the bank job.
That's a sure thing.
You're going to die in that cubicle.
I choose, and he said, to sail the seas of consequence.
I was like, I love it!
And I was like, yeah, man, that's daring.
And so he won.
I mean, like, he's had a pretty good ride, I reckon.
And so in my own way, you know, I come from minimum wage work.
I'm nobody from nowhere.
And I got into music via punk rock because the band Black Flag said, hey, you're a crazy guy.
You want to try out to be our singer?
I'm like, what do I have to lose?
Yeah.
And so I went for that.
And it led to everything else and ultimately why I'm here in this room with you today.
joe rogan
Do you miss rock?
Do you miss touring as a musician?
henry rollins
No.
No, because I did it.
I did it really hard until I had nothing left to give to it.
And so now if I went back to it, it would just be repetition.
And it might be fun repetition, but it wouldn't be meaningful in that I wouldn't be putting out anything new.
And for me, the day I stopped doing music was...
I woke up one day and I just sat up and it was like a light bulb went on.
I went, wow, I'm out of lyrics.
And it wasn't like, oh no.
I'm like, okay, well, give me my scroll.
I guess I've graduated.
When was this?
2003 or that.
And I just called the manager.
I said, hey, I'm done with music.
And he saw 15% of that, though, poof.
And he's like, no!
I went, yeah.
He goes, why?
I said, because I got nothing new to add.
He goes, well, then just go out and do the hits.
I'm like, man...
It's not what Coltrane would have done.
It's not what Miles Davis would have done.
I just can't...
I don't want to repeat.
It's not artistically brave to me.
And so I'd much rather just try new things.
But thankfully, by that time, I was already doing talking tours all over the world.
And they do very well.
Tons of acting, voiceover...
I had all this other stuff I was doing.
Had the book company, record company, music publishing.
I had all this other stuff.
And so I just kind of let all of that stuff fill in.
Put it this way, I'm busier now than ever.
And I don't miss the music.
I see bands in the airport all the time with like the laminates and their road gear.
I'm like, yeah, rumble, young man, rumble.
I had my fill.
joe rogan
Well, it's beautiful that you did it on your terms.
You decided to do it.
It wasn't just...
It wasn't like...
There's a lot of aging rock stars that have that sort of existence where they have to go out and do the hits.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And no one wants to hear new shit.
That's a big part of the problem.
henry rollins
Yeah.
And so they have to do that weird circle the wagons thing like, we're going to play this album in its entirety.
Okay.
I go to some of those shows.
I, you know, throw my money down and go see that band do that album in its entirety.
It's cool.
But it's not for me.
joe rogan
Well, I've heard The Stones still put on an awesome show.
unidentified
Yeah, they're real.
joe rogan
And I think one of the cool things about it is they're like, wow, Mick Jagger can still fucking do it.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He still apparently works out twice a day.
Yeah, he's in amazing shape.
henry rollins
Always getting in great shape.
There's some people, and they're rare, they actually...
It's not about money.
That's when I really start trusting those old rock stars.
Like Rod Stewart.
Doesn't need a dime.
I mean, that guy can buy four countries right now.
He's probably playing tonight in Las Vegas or somewhere.
Elton John.
They just really like doing the thing.
Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.
They'll be rock.
They'll die on stage.
And it's not money.
It's not like, hey, we might get popular.
It's like, man, we really want to play brown sugar.
I don't.
But I admire them.
I think it's...
What I'm saying is, I think it's real.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, I'm sure it is real.
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
I'm sure it's real with a lot of them.
But what I like with you, what you're saying is that you had already figured out all these other paths in life that you were enjoying, putting your creative energy in.
You just decided, I'll just do those.
henry rollins
It was summer 1984. I was 23. I was in Black Flag, and we were touring.
We were staying out of California because the Olympics were coming, and we knew the cops would just be looking to smash down any...
Supposed ne'er-do-wells.
So we just stayed on tour the whole year pretty much.
And I noticed all these great bands around me, very talented people.
And we're all broke between tours.
We're living like sharks.
If we don't tour, we don't eat.
And between tours, the guys in that band, they're all waiters.
I'm not putting that down.
But the music wasn't keeping you in rent 12 months a year.
And I'm not nearly as talented as any of them.
So I said, man, if those guys are struggling...
Then what am I going to do?
I better get plans B, C, D, E, F, and G together.
And in those days, I just started my little book publishing company.
So I'm going to work harder on writing.
I'm going to become much better.
Started doing the talking shows.
I'm going to get much better at that.
And I'm going to start saying yes to things when they come along.
A couple of years later, Hollywood started calling, hey, can you act?
I'm like, as well as I can sing.
Click.
But I started, you know, acting.
It was Crispin Glover, the actor.
One day he said to me, he said, Henry, as a just...
Please consider acting.
If you get an audition, don't necessarily say no just because you're the music guy.
He said, I think you might really like it, and you could probably do it.
And so I said, okay.
And within a year I was doing film.
And then, hey, can you do a voiceover?
I'm like, yeah, I got a voice.
And so I just started saying yes to more stuff, and that was the plan.
Just have more things to do, which is fine, because I don't like sitting around anyway.
And then ironically, music ended up being very, very good in all of that for me.
But I had plans, other plans.
And I've noticed a lot of old geezers around my era, they didn't come up with something else.
And they just, I don't know why.
And they didn't make another plan.
And they get put into those weird tours where they're, you know, you bring your kid and all of that.
And it's more that they gotta more than they wanna.
And I'd rather wake up Wanting to do stuff, not having to do stuff.
I think, like you were saying a while ago, like less obligation.
Just so you clear the deck so you can really do what you want.
Because life is short.
I mean, last week I was 20 and now I'm 56. I mean, it goes by really fast.
It doesn't matter if you're in a cubicle or a prison cell.
Man, you wake up one day, you're like, damn!
That was fast.
And so you might as well make it as much as what you want it to be as possible, because all you're getting is older.
I don't understand why people don't fear that.
I wake up every day with the Grim Reaper's scythe whistling by my ear going, you better get up, man.
And it's all the up I need.
I don't ever sleep in.
joe rogan
How many hours a night do you get?
henry rollins
Between 4 and 5 or 6. That's going to age you quicker.
I don't like it.
joe rogan
You still like sleeping or you don't like that?
henry rollins
No, I love sleeping.
I get up and I'm like, damn, man.
I've got to do stuff.
joe rogan
But doesn't that diminish your energy?
henry rollins
Sometimes, yeah.
I have those woozy afternoons where I take the seven-minute power naps in my chair at the office.
But I just try and, you know, what I have found, if you want to not have to sleep eight hours a day, if you maintain a really good diet, you can shave about an hour of sleep off.
You keep your proteins and your carbohydrates lean and stay away from food that's really fun to eat, you know, burgers, french fries, and all that, which is, I'd live on that if I could.
But if you keep your diet really together and you keep your workouts up, I have found that you want to not get tired during the day.
Work out at 5 in the morning and the rest of the day you're just kind of buzzing.
You think you'd face plant onto your desk.
Sometimes when I'm really humming, I'm up at 4.30 and I'm in the gym by 4.50, 5 p.m.
and I'm just on the bike.
joe rogan
5 a.m.
unidentified
you mean?
Yeah.
henry rollins
Yeah, 4.558.
joe rogan
Yeah, you said p.m.
henry rollins
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, early in the morning, figuring, you know, oh, by noon I'll just be like dead asleep.
Uh-uh, man, I'm wired.
And to go to sleep at night, like last night, I was kind of wired.
So I just started doing, like people have drinking games.
I was playing 45s on my record player.
So whenever I'd have to flip the 45, I would do a set of push-ups.
And so I played a bunch of 45s last night.
So I did a bunch of push-ups.
And by the time I'm done with the 45s, I felt like I'd been caned by a pro in Singapore.
I was so tired, man.
So I slept...
Dreamlessly last night.
That's like a dead man.
joe rogan
You wrote a piece a long time ago that I really enjoyed about Powerlifting and it was something along the lines of the iron never lies.
henry rollins
Yeah, it doesn't lie.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, I love that.
henry rollins
Oh, thank you.
unidentified
It was great because it was- People put that in gyms all over the world.
joe rogan
It was so, you nailed it because it was so honest and it was just so highlighted what is so beneficial about forcing yourself to do hard work and Yeah, and the fact that you are going, okay, I'd rather not, but here we go.
henry rollins
You build that muscle.
joe rogan
I'd rather not, but here I go muscle.
henry rollins
Yeah, and that's more important than any brawn you're going to have.
For me, the workout, I go to the gym to get my head right.
The benefit is, you know, you get in good shape.
But, like, I just finished a bunch of shows.
I did 27 shows in America.
I just finished a bunch of shows.
I did 27 on, one day off, 27 on.
Two and a half hours on stage at night, no notes, talking at a high rate of speed.
The only way I got through that was really good diet and three days on, one day off workouts.
It was the workouts that alleviated the stress that made the sleep restorative, the muscle tissue absorbed into nutrients, etc., and made the shows good.
And so, for me, the workouts, since I was about 15, that's been as much a part of my day as Anything.
Just to, otherwise I get, you know, kind of mentally clogged.
I get depressed.
joe rogan
Now, are you still doing all those, are you still doing powerlifting?
unidentified
Oh, hell no.
joe rogan
No, no, no, no.
henry rollins
My body left the building on that years ago.
joe rogan
When you, when Beavis and Butthead made fun of one of your songs, do you remember that?
henry rollins
Hell yeah.
joe rogan
The Liar song?
It was fucking great.
henry rollins
Yeah, it made us sell it.
unidentified
It sold a lot of records.
henry rollins
It wasn't the worst thing that ever happened.
joe rogan
But goddamn, dude, your neck was as big as my waist.
You were huge.
henry rollins
It was actually fatter than my ears.
joe rogan
Really?
henry rollins
Yeah, there's just those muscle groups that just jump up.
You know, if you do a lot of shrugs, all of a sudden your traps are like equal to the top of your head.
Their muscle groups just blow up.
And those, what are those, like the sternomastoid muscle, whatever that big one is on the side of your neck.
I just, everything I did seemed to hit that muscle group, the way I like pull up a deadlift or the way you hold a bar during squats.
That neck muscle's always doing something to support a lot of weight.
And so it just got worked and worked.
And that's when the beavis and butt are like, Oh, he's got a big neck.
I like that.
Yeah.
joe rogan
When did you stop doing the...
There is right there.
henry rollins
Yeah.
Yeah, that's 94. We shot that in the desert.
We shot that in the Mojave Desert.
joe rogan
When did you stop doing the powerlifting?
henry rollins
Oh, in the early 2000s, just because I felt problems in my back.
And, you know, for squat day, I'm like, you know...
I'm belting up.
I'm wrapping my knees.
I was really going for it.
And my frame just can't support my attitude.
And so my attitude is like, I'll lift the whole damn gym.
And I was reminded.
My body went, nah, not really.
You're more of a swimmer-runner type.
You're not trying to...
And so I was lifting a lot for a guy my size and my bone mass.
And so at one point my back and shoulders started hurting and like a different kind of pain like you know that you shouldn't be doing this anymore And so the workouts I do now if I can't lift it ten times I just don't I just pull the weight down so I can so a lot of it's you know treadmill elliptical and stationary bike and a lot of pull-ups push-ups and Like you know a lot of compound lifts like you know bench press stuff like that but mainly a lot of pull-ups TRX,
the straps, the guy who invented them gave them to me as a gift.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's great.
unidentified
I love those.
henry rollins
And they're great, because it's just you and your body, and that natural resistance, I have found that makes me a bit more limber.
And, I don't know, I don't need to lift everything in the gym.
I'm 56. All I can do is blow out that one day and never be able to raise my arm over my head again.
You know, because I blow a shoulder out, so I don't need it.
joe rogan
Do you fuck around with yoga at all?
henry rollins
Uh-uh, but I admire it because you see people who do yoga and they're so, not only are they flexible, but you can tell they're really grounded in themselves.
Like they're really, they're coming on with an energy that I don't have.
joe rogan
Well, it does something to you.
The alleviation of tension, the increasing of range of motion and flexibility, it also does something to your mind.
henry rollins
Yeah, that's what I've noticed.
joe rogan
And they're grueling classes, like an hour and a half in a hot yoga room.
It also does something to your body that's probably related to sauna treatments.
Like, they've shown that sauna treatments and heat shock proteins do amazing things to your body to reduce inflammation.
And just the...
That grueling physical and mental grind of getting through a class.
henry rollins
I've heard the hot yoga is brutal.
Oh, it's brutal.
I've met so many people, as you do, and girls have said, you know, you think you work out hard.
You should come to me on a yoga class.
You'll crawl.
You won't even make it.
Like, they try and challenge me.
I'm like, actually, I'm kind of scared of all that.
They said, you want to work out?
You won't be able to pick up your car keys at the end of it.
joe rogan
Well, I'm sure you can pick up your car keys, but it is really brutal while you're doing it.
Afterwards, you don't feel the same way you feel like.
If you lift weights too hard, you know that feeling where you're like, oh, you can't move your body.
You don't really get that.
But you do get just fucking to the point where you're looking at the clock and you realize there's 20 minutes to go.
You're like, I don't know if I can do this.
henry rollins
It feels like 20 hours.
joe rogan
Yeah, your head is hot.
Your body's pouring water.
henry rollins
Wow.
joe rogan
You can lose five, six pounds in a class easily.
henry rollins
Yeah, I've heard that about those spin classes, too.
People lose too much weight.
They have to stop and go less days a week.
joe rogan
Yeah, it makes sense, because you're also on the momentum of the energy of the room.
If the instructor's really good, you get hyped up, and you start pushing a little too hard.
henry rollins
Yeah, I've never been in any class like that.
I'm not the biggest people person.
That's why I started working out when I was in high school, because I couldn't throw the ball straight, so the gym was always empty, so I just went in there.
But I've never been in hay class.
I've never done that.
joe rogan
Well, the good thing about yoga class is no one talks.
So even though you're around those people, there's no interaction.
You kind of feel each other, and it's kind of cool because you push each other a little bit without communicating.
But I'm a big fan of it, man.
And I think as far as increasing your longevity of your body, the use of your body, it seems to me that what it does is kind of forge all the connections between your joints and your body and your core, and it just makes everything better.
I don't have nearly as much back pain as I used to.
I'm more flexible than I have been in years.
I've been like a year and a half, maybe almost two years.
I've been really into it.
henry rollins
And how many days a week do you go?
joe rogan
I try to do three.
I usually wind up one.
That's a lot.
I usually wind up one or two.
But I try for three.
When I can get three in, I do it.
But between that and all the other different kinds of workouts, what I like to do is I like to wake up and decide what I'm going to do when I wake up.
And some days I'm like, I want to go kickbox.
I want to go to jiu-jitsu.
I want to lift weights.
I want to go to yoga.
henry rollins
That's cool.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Like we were talking about before the podcast started, what I'm trying to do with my life at this point, I'm almost 50. I'm 49. I'll be 50 in August.
Is to have as few obligations as possible and as much passion and interest as possible.
And just sort of pursue the things that I'm really enjoying.
henry rollins
That keeps you ageless.
I just have met so many people by 23 that are kind of retired.
And then you meet some 75-year-old guy who just run rings around you, and it's all in your head and the choices you make.
And I've seen both ends of that spectrum, where the old guy is younger than you'll ever be, and the young guy is just so boring and so...
He turned into his dad or something.
Like, damn, man, who got to you?
joe rogan
Well, what I take fuel from is things like your podcast with Ari.
Because I was listening to you talk all about the adventures that you've had and the travel and the way you go about it, and I got fired up, man.
I was listening to that.
I was like, I love this.
I love that.
No one's telling you to do this.
This isn't a fucking cubicle job.
henry rollins
Oh, no.
joe rogan
You're just deciding.
henry rollins
Self-starting, yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're just deciding to do this.
henry rollins
Realizing the most gratifying thing in my life consistently is coming up with an idea where it goes from the cerebral to the physical.
Like, I'm going to write this book.
Okay, three years from now, I'm still going to be working on this thing.
It's a long journey.
So here we go.
Or I'm going to get to this country.
Or I'm going to get back to this country and come in through that way.
And you just make these plans.
And then months later, boom, there you are.
Like, I was in Thailand making a documentary years ago.
And I was reading in the Herald Tribune at breakfast one morning, I was in Chiang Mai, that the following year was going to be the 25th anniversary of the Bhopal disaster in Bhopal, India, when Union Carbide India Limited, the methyl isocyanate tank exploded, killed a bunch of people.
I said, I'm going.
I'm going to be there for the 25th anniversary.
So I took an entire year and researched.
And I was there for the 25th anniversary.
I was in the march.
I snuck onto the Union Carbide India Limited site.
Panel where tank 610 blew up.
I found the switch.
I went all the way to where I was standing in front of it with the tag on the thing that says MIC, methyl isocyanate.
I think that's it.
That was the gas that hit the water and blew up.
They're making bug spray there.
And so I went all the way to, like, here is where the guy was flicking the switch going, oh no, oh no, the gas scrubbers, the neutralizers aren't working.
And I was sneaking around.
There's like armed guards.
They're not going to shoot you, but they'll tell you, they'll kick you off.
And so I just make these decisions, and then ultimately you're booking the tickets, you're booking the hotel, and then one day you are crawling through the weeds, avoiding security guys on their motor scooters with your camera, sneaking in and out of buildings getting your shots.
I mean, I love to take these things from like sitting in a coffee place going, Oh!
To, like, wow, here I am in Laos, in Zien Quang at the Plain of Jars.
It's a place I've always wanted to go to.
I saw it in a documentary.
And then two years later, I'm at the Plain of Jars.
joe rogan
And you're writing about all this stuff, too, right?
unidentified
Oh, yeah, right.
joe rogan
So this is a thing, you're taking the photographs and you're writing, I assume, blog entries?
henry rollins
Yeah, I write for the LA Weekly once a week.
I write for Rolling Stone Australia once a month.
And then...
I've written about 27 books, and they're in translation.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ!
henry rollins
Yeah.
Well, I own the company, so I sleep with the owner every night.
And so a lot of my books are travel.
I do like two years of journal at a time, and the middle section's photographs.
I'm working on my second photo book.
My first one came out, and the second one's going to be pretty cool, because it's all my North Korea shots.
That'll be crazy.
unidentified
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
You went to North Korea?
henry rollins
Yeah, it took three years to get that visa.
A few years ago.
Wow.
It was just sad.
joe rogan
Was it when Kim Jong Il was still alive?
henry rollins
It was Kim Jong Il, yeah.
The last days of Kim Jong Il before Kim Jong Un.
joe rogan
Yeah.
henry rollins
Yeah.
And it was just, you know, like...
When I was in Iran, just like they point you at what you're supposed to look at.
Don't look over here.
It's a propaganda.
joe rogan
How much time did you spend in North Korea?
henry rollins
About a week.
I was in Pyongyang and the areas around Pyongyang and then I went there via Beijing and then from there up to Mongolia, then over to Bhutan.
joe rogan
What was North Korea like?
henry rollins
Just sad.
You know, just poor people who are scared of their government.
And my tour guides, since I went there alone, they were very suspicious of me.
They put two tour spies on me.
The nice one who talked to me and the mean one who just scowled and took notes.
And every day, the guy would ask me basically the same questions like when a detective is trying to peel the layers of onion skin off.
So you said you're a businessman.
I'm like, yeah.
So what do you do?
I edit books, which is true.
Mine.
And it's, really?
What are the books about?
I said, well, you know, often they're not that good.
I was just winging it.
And so you're all put in one hotel.
You and the Dutch tourists and the Australians.
Everyone's in the one hotel across the bridge that's with men with rifles.
You're not going anywhere.
And so every day they go on their buses and I get in the car.
And the Australians recognize me.
The Brits recognize me.
And they all want photos.
unidentified
Right.
henry rollins
And we're walking to the, whatever that room is, the room where the north and south meet, where they come in through the northern door and the southern door, it's that blue room.
The DSJ, I'll come up with, the joint, the JSA, the Joint Security Area, something like that.
I pulled one of the Australians to the side.
I said, can you please call your friends off me?
Because my tour spy is starting to ask me really weird questions about why people want their photo with me.
And if I'm caught being in movies, writing books, rock and roll, I'm going downtown for a meeting that I might not get out of.
And so he cooled out all his Australian friends.
But then there's this one British guy who just kept getting in my face with the camera.
Because you're all getting taken to the same places.
And I'll never forget this.
My tour guide, who for the previous three days was like, his English was from school.
Like, Henry, he went from that to, how does this guy know you?
And all of a sudden his English was as good as mine.
I'm like, oh no.
And I'm not good at lying.
So I said, I met him in the breakfast room.
I don't know, maybe he's hot for me.
I just tried to explain it away.
And I just had to kind of go, I don't know.
And I had to try and avoid this guy.
And I was really nervous.
The last day I was there, when they finally took me back to the airport in Beijing, I'm like, damn, man, am I really getting on this plane?
And when the plane took off, man, I just like, okay, I did that.
joe rogan
But why wouldn't you just say, I'm a musician?
henry rollins
Because I won't let you in.
I went on a tourist visa, and if you claim any of that, you're going to get tons of scrutiny, and they're not going to let you in.
joe rogan
They won't let you in if you're an artist?
unidentified
Absolutely.
henry rollins
Absolutely not.
Because they fear it.
They fear what you'll go back to the mainland with.
Same thing in Iran.
joe rogan
Oh, because you're a public person.
But how the fuck do they let the basketball player?
unidentified
What the fuck is his name?
henry rollins
Rodman.
Because he towed the party line.
And just told Obama, you know, just call your pal Kim.
Sure, that'll work out great.
And same thing when I was in, I went to Tehran via Dubai, and the guy who met me at the airport, after the airport people got done grilling me, he said, look, I got your visa.
I know who you are.
I'm not your tour guide.
He's a government guy.
Don't tell him what you do for a living.
We'll never get you out of here.
The last day I'm in that country, I'm eating dinner with this guy and his amazing wife.
They're both like rocket scientists.
And they get by with a website that gets visas done.
So his cousin, her cousin, Anusha, the woman, her cousin calls her and says, your friend Henry's on TV. And Ahmed dropped his fork and said, we've got to go.
We have to get you to your hotel.
You've got to pack up right now.
We just go to the airport, check in, check your luggage, find a corner, put your face in it, and wait for the flight.
And I got to the airport like four hours early because he said, you've got to go.
Whoa.
And so I just sat there in the airport with my face down and then eventually got on like, you know, the 3 a.m.
to Dubai and I was out of there.
unidentified
Holy shit.
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
What would have happened if you got caught?
henry rollins
Questions, which leads to more questions and you just don't know.
It turns into like, well, he's been interrogated for the last three months and we don't know.
And since I'm not a hot looking girl, President Clinton's not coming to rescue me.
And so those are the two countries I've been to where...
Don't tell them what you do with what I was instructed before I left.
unidentified
Wow.
henry rollins
Yeah.
Because anywhere else, you just go and show up.
joe rogan
Now, do you go to all these places that you go to, do you pick places where there's high populations of people?
Do you ever go to really nomadic places?
henry rollins
I tend to choose places where there's...
Just been in an election, or there's going to be an election, or there just was a war, where there's conflict, where you see signs of the wrath of globalization, the wrath of global climate change, places that are politically hot.
All of these are of great interest to me.
During the Bush administration, he said, don't go to this country, this country, this country.
I went to all of them.
I went to every Axis country they had.
And I even went to the ones that Ms. Condoleezza Rice told me not to go to.
I went there, too.
joe rogan
She told you personally?
henry rollins
No, no, no.
Don't go to Belarus.
Go to Belarus.
And so I tried to go to all of those places, and I'm fine.
I came back in one piece.
But in the last few years, I've started doing more eco-travel to learn about biodiversity, codependent ecosystems.
So two years ago, summer 2015, I had time off because So I wasn't on tour.
And so I went to Easter Island via...
I was in Ecuador for a while on the Napo River, which is a tributary of the Amazon, and I went on a science boat.
And I just sat with scientists, botanists, bird people, and learned about how the jungle interconnects and how this parasite kills that tree, which fertilizes that tree, and it's really integrated.
It's amazing.
And they're losing their force because of timber and oil, you know, the big money.
joe rogan
And cattle production, too.
henry rollins
That I did not know about.
But when I was in the interior, and it's all about hardwood and oil, and all those, you know, the Rouhani people, the interior tribes, are just getting discovered.
And, you know, their land is getting cleared out.
And the government's making a ton of money off cannibalizing their own land.
And in November of 2015, I went to Antarctica.
And that's the most substantive trip I've ever made.
That was the most mind-blowing trip I've ever done.
You go on Deception Island and you look down and there's bits of broken glass from the whale killers.
They use that island to process and render whales.
So it's like chips of whale bone and all the crappies people left.
Tin shacks.
There's like a transmission in the sand from some vehicle.
And you see what unregulated slaughter looks like.
Where they're just like, hey, let's make a bunch of money.
Screw the animals.
We'll grow back.
And they nearly hunted down the seals and whales, those particular species, to extinction.
And so I got on a ship full of scientists, and you take lectures every day, and you walk around amongst the Gentoo and the Chinstrap and the Adelie penguins, and you learn a lot, and it's hard to take, because it's almost destructing in front of you.
Wow.
And it's sad, and it's beautiful.
It was like being on the moon.
I mean, you didn't want to sleep just for looking out the window or walking around with some penguin walking by you.
It was surreal.
And hopefully November of this year, I'll have some time.
So I made friends with the scientists on the ship, and they said, look, obviously you're really into this.
You should come back, because we have a longer trip we do that starts in the South Georgian Islands.
I went, oh, I'm there.
So I'm going to see if I'm not working in November.
I don't have my schedule yet.
If I'm free, I'm going.
And you go down through Argentina, and you leave from there.
unidentified
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
So it starts in Antarctica, you work through Argentina.
How long is this?
henry rollins
Well, you go down.
The first time, the one time I went, I went to Buenos Aires down to Ushuaia, which is the southernmost city in the world.
And that's where you pick up the ship.
And you go through the Drake Passage.
And by day four, finally, you start seeing ice.
And then you look off and like, whoa, those are penguins.
And there you are.
But it takes days to get there.
unidentified
Wow.
henry rollins
Yeah, and then days to get back.
So there's like three days on either end where there's kind of nothing to do but take lectures in the lounge about history and all of that, which I did with my notepad out and questioned the lecturers afterwards and got a ton of information.
I keep in touch with them, actually.
joe rogan
What a fucking bizarre and exciting life you're living, man.
henry rollins
I'm trying.
joe rogan
I love it.
henry rollins
You know, knowing I was going to be meeting you, and I must say, you know this, you have a lot of fans, and I wish I had a dollar.
For the last few years, so many people have been writing me, saying like, you should be on Joe Rogan's podcast.
Or, have you done it yet?
And I missed it.
And finally, this was like, and I knew who you were.
So it wasn't like, who's this Joe Rogan guy?
I'm like, enough already!
But man, people like you.
And I used to You remember that show, UFC Primetime?
joe rogan
Yeah.
henry rollins
Yeah, I was the voice.
I did that voice.
So I don't know a lot about sports.
But I learned a lot about MMA just because these people, these fighters become relevant to me because I'm saying their names over and over and I'm watching the footage.
And, you know, I met BJ Penn.
I interviewed him once for the Independent Film Channel.
Or, no, for Participant Media, I think it was.
Anyway, I started...
Be more aware of these fighters and all of this stuff.
And then, you know, that's when I saw you.
And I was thinking about you the other day, knowing I was going to meet you, thinking, like, here's this guy with this, you know, very interesting life, because I've seen the stand-up on TV. And there he is in the middle of the octagon with, like, you know, some guy who just got finished knocking the crap out of someone.
That's a very eclectic life you've got.
I'm sure you didn't grow up anything like the rest of your family and all the kids you went to high school with.
You went a different way, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, obviously.
henry rollins
So when did you decide you're not going to be a realtor and your face isn't going to be on the bus bench?
joe rogan
Well, I had zero work ethic towards anything that I didn't enjoy, but anything that I did enjoy with, I'd become obsessed with.
henry rollins
Yeah, me too.
joe rogan
And just, it would occupy all my thoughts, and I couldn't wait to do it 24 hours a day.
And then, when I got out of high school, I took a year off before I went to college, and the only reason why I went to college was because I didn't want people thinking I was a loser.
I was tired of telling people that I wasn't doing anything, so I went to college.
I went to Boston, UMass Boston.
The only reason why I went was because I didn't want people thinking I was a loser.
And I knew that I could not exist in a regular job.
I just didn't have it, whatever it was.
henry rollins
Yeah, it's a thing.
When you know you don't have it, it's kind of scary.
Like, oh no, I'm not going to have a straight life.
Oh no, what am I gonna do?
joe rogan
It was like it was radioactive.
Like, I would take construction jobs and it was like I was being poisoned.
You know, it was like, it was like, literally like I was getting radiation from it.
henry rollins
Yeah, you feel like you're dying.
You're young and you're awake and you're like, I'm dying.
This is killing me.
I thought I was gonna have a life of those jobs.
So I went out of high school, I went one semester at American University in Washington, DC, trying to see if I liked college.
I liked learning, I just didn't like, you know, I hated school, so another four years on a student loan.
Like one semester, it took me so many years to earn my way out of that debt.
And so I just kind of went into the working world going, this is going to be rough.
I mean, this is going to hurt.
It's going to be swollen feet and a lot of top ramen noodles and no sleep in my crap apartment, but this is my life.
And I felt like someone was strangling me.
Because I just knew, I didn't know where I was going to go or what I should be doing, but I knew that this wasn't it.
Like this was going to kill me.
joe rogan
Well I think there's a lot of people out there like that and for some Awful reason they never find whatever it is that can break them free.
They never catch a ride on that river out Yeah, you know and I got lucky I found stand-up comedy and I had already I think a lot of it had come from martial arts too I'd fought a lot and then competed a lot in martial arts tournaments and I think that from that I realized that like these Unconventional paths they brought me something that I wasn't getting from regular life.
I brought It brought me self-esteem.
It gave me this feeling that I wasn't a loser.
It was the only thing that I'd ever done my whole life where I said, wow, maybe I'm not a loser.
I kind of thought I was an outcast and a loser, and then all of a sudden I was successful at something, only because I was obsessed with it.
But then I knew there was no way I was ever going to be able to hold a regular job, and then I got lucky when I was 21 and I found stand-up.
And so from then on, I'd kind of like locked into this thing where I'm just going to do what I like and fuck what everybody says because everybody's giving me advice to do this and advice to do that and it never seems to be what I want to do.
henry rollins
And their advice is coming from a different world.
And they mean well, but they're coming from the whole other value system.
And a whole other expectation of their own lives and what your life should be and all of that.
And all of it is not poisoned, but it's just kind of anathema to every breath you're taking.
And it's ultimately useless.
And they're always going to tote that line.
That's what they've got.
Like, you've got what you've got.
So when you say, here's how I do it, they're like, you're crazy, man.
And then you look at them in that job and you're like, you're the crazy one amongst us.
Because I couldn't handle wearing that tie every day and taking it from that dude.
joe rogan
Yeah, and some people, I guess, like the corporate world.
I just, I got lucky and I found a bunch of shit that I like.
And if you had said to me, you know, if you asked me if I was, you know, outside of my life, and if I didn't know that I existed, and you said, do you think it's possible to be a cage-fighting commentator slash stand-up comedian?
I'd be like, no.
They don't go together.
henry rollins
When you travel...
And they say occupation.
What do you write?
joe rogan
That's a good question.
henry rollins
Depends on where I am.
Oh no, what do I do?
joe rogan
If I'm going somewhere for the UFC, I always write UFC commentator.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
It's the easiest one to do because then they go, oh yeah, I know you, and then they let me in and it's easy, you know, if you're getting your passport stamped.
But most of the time I write comic, stand-up comedian.
henry rollins
Okay.
joe rogan
Yeah.
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
So that's, if I had like one thing that I definitely do, it's that.
Everything else I could kind of quit.
henry rollins
Right, right.
joe rogan
And even that I could kind of quit.
You know, I mean, you could kind of quit everything.
henry rollins
Yeah, and sometimes maybe it's maybe a good idea to clear the decks.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Citizen of the world.
That's what I would say.
Professional citizen of the world.
henry rollins
You know, and also I think...
There's a bravery that one takes when one embraces the straight world that I simply don't have.
There's a level of guts where you're like, well, I don't really like this job, but I love my family.
I'm going to do the right thing.
I don't have a family, so I'm not tethered to that value.
I admire it, and if I was a dad, I'd be standing up.
But there's a kind of guts where you just get on that bus every day and go like, damn, man, I don't like this job.
And you grimly hold on to your sack lunch and you just go do it.
I think like my mom and my dad, I don't know them that well, but they were very hard-working people.
And I'm not sure how much they ever really loved their jobs.
Like, I can't wait to go to the office!
They just kind of went, I'm an adult and this is what you do.
And they just kind of put themselves through that grinder and turned the handle themselves.
And I think a lot of people all over the world, they just kind of grimly set their jaw and go, I'm an adult.
And they go out into it.
And you look at a guy like Iggy Pop.
You know, who could never have a straight job.
It would just be, you know, the thing would fall over.
Because he's an artist.
He's the real thing.
And it's innovation, but it's an intolerance.
And it's, for me, just a lack of courage to...
To that line, I'm like, man, I just don't have it.
I don't have the stamina to go into that building every day for 28 years.
Like, my dad went to one building for his whole life with one corporation he worked for, and then he stopped.
I don't even know if he's alive or dead, but he was that guy in that building every damn day.
Like, hours and hours.
joe rogan
There is a dance that when you discuss these things like you don't want to disparage anybody that it genuinely has Shown courage and grinding it out because for their family does take courage.
henry rollins
I just don't have it I'm saying I consider them People in the real world and in my life.
I don't think I really live in the real world that much I live in my self-invented Henry world right and I saw this video with Lady Gaga I don't know much about her music, but she did this long intro, the $80 million thing.
And she said, she was like, reality, I hate reality.
I was like, I, there you go.
I just can't handle a lot of it.
And I don't shy away from it.
I go into situations that are hyper real.
But that kind of flatline existence that a lot of we adults engage in, I think that would have destroyed me.
I would have found alcohol or something really destructive.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a droning, resonating existence.
henry rollins
Yeah, and some people go, hey, suck it up, and you'll get in there, and it's not that bad.
Cheer up.
And it's not that bad.
I just don't want it.
joe rogan
I don't want it.
henry rollins
I don't want it.
joe rogan
But people are malleable.
Some people can get through it.
henry rollins
Yeah, they have...
They just have a different mind.
joe rogan
But if you had a friend that was doing that, but you know that friend really wanted to be a novelist, wouldn't you just fucking go, dude, please, just try it.
Just write a book in your spare time.
henry rollins
Get out of there.
But the thing is, you've said that to him or her before.
unidentified
Right.
henry rollins
And these people write me, hey, man, my band is pretty good.
I'm two years into college.
Should I quit college and take my band on the road and...
The truth is, if that person really had the thing, they wouldn't be writing me.
They would just be telling me when they were playing.
I never asked for advice.
I just said, either I'm going to play this music or I'm going to die trying.
It never occurred to me that there was...
Ask advice about what?
And so I never had any fear.
I ran at it, and I didn't care if there was a wall there or the cops.
I just ran.
joe rogan
But surely you must have had heroes that did it also before you, so you felt like there was a path.
unidentified
Not like I did it.
henry rollins
No.
joe rogan
Well, definitely not like you did it, but a lot of rock stars, a lot of bands, a lot of musicians, a lot of artists, they pursued their goals, they went out and chased things, and you knew that it was a path.
henry rollins
The ones I had met before I was doing music full-time were all broke.
Like I met some punk rock bands like from England, you know, like whoever.
And you're like, yeah, you're broke too.
And they're just crazy people, and I identified with that.
But sometimes, have you ever done a show where you meet that actor who...
Has had like 80 years of acting class and all they talk about is their acting coach.
And after I get off the set today, I'm going to go back to my class.
And all they do is take classes.
You're like, man, if all you're going to do is ever take classes, the rubber's never going to hit the road because you're always in the...
On pause with the acting.
Some days you just gotta go like, I'm doing this.
And like, that's me.
And if it doesn't work, man, it's really gonna hurt.
So, here we go.
Like with music, I never was like, are we gonna make it?
Make what?
I'm just trying to do a good show.
I never thought...
I would ever make money doing music.
I never thought I'd ever be able to pay my rent.
I just reconciled my life to a life of fighting, bad tasting food, and sleeping, you know, next to the drum roost snort all night in the back of the van hoping the bass, the bass player, the guitar player didn't drive us into a tree because we didn't have a driver.
It is what it is.
It's independent music.
And you just crawl through these tours.
It makes you pretty tough.
You're like a junkyard dog.
But I never thought it would ever change.
I just figured this is your life and eventually, you know, The guy hits you with something and you die in the hospital.
I was not a fatalist, but I'm like, this is it.
And I never saw past that.
And then in the 80s, the band got bigger or whatever.
But I've always run at things going, well, this is it or die.
I never thought there was any wiggle room or any cushion or much alternative.
I'm not that resourceful.
I'm just kind of crazy enough to run at it.
And by running really hard, I've gotten through it.
But it's not because I'm smart or good looking.
It's just because...
As Richard Gere once said, I've got nowhere else to go.
And that has really helped me.
Well, I'm going to get through this tour because I've got nothing else going on.
I'll stay in this band because I've got nowhere else to go but be in this incredibly hard-to-be-in band.
And that's been very helpful to me.
Like, this really hurts.
Well, it's better than the pain at standing with the apron behind the counter.
That was a different kind of pain.
joe rogan
Yeah, but you've managed to transcend that, obviously.
You've managed to find this very unique path in life where you're doing all these different things.
You're no longer in a band anymore, and now you're this worldwide traveler slash performance artist where you're doing these spoken word things.
They're really funny.
It's kind of like stand-up.
henry rollins
There's a lot of comedy, isn't it?
joe rogan
Yeah, I had bought a couple of your CDs way back in the day.
It was like in the 90s, because I had thought it was music.
henry rollins
Right.
joe rogan
And I saw that you were, and then I was like, a spoken word?
Like, what the fuck is this?
And then I listened, I was like, this is kind of like stand-up, but in a freer form.
henry rollins
Yeah, more anecdotal.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Now, when did you start doing that?
henry rollins
Many, many years ago, in 1983, there was a local promoter in Hollywood, and he would take like 20 people, give everyone five minutes.
And it'd be the singer in the gun club, the guy from the Minutemen, the guy from this band, the girl from that band.
And I would go to these shows, because even when it was bad, it was great.
And everyone was cheering.
You know all these people.
So if it sucked, you'd applaud even harder.
Black Flag's bass player.
Would be on these gigs.
And he'd go up and, you know, read from his notebook.
He has an amazing intellect.
And I would always go hang out with him.
And one night the promoter said, you got a big mouth.
Let's get you up there next week.
And I go, you know, what am I going to do?
He said, like, you know, 10 minutes, 10 bucks or whatever it was.
I said, man, I'll take that money.
And the next week I got up there and I read something that I had written and told a story about what had happened at band practice the day before when a white supremacist tried to run over our guitar player with his car.
And the audience was like, ah!
I go, yep, that was Tuesday in the Life of Black Flag.
Well, my time is up.
I gotta go.
And so I walked off stage, big applause, and everyone came up to me and said, when's your next show?
I said, well, I'm going on tour.
I thought they meant the band.
They went, no, no, just the next show where you just talk.
I go, well, I got this $10 bill.
That was it.
And the promoter said, you're really good at that.
You're a natural.
How about you open for two of my poets next week?
We'll give you 15 minutes.
And a few times around with that, those poets are opening for me, which they didn't like.
And by 1985, I had done a cross-country tour and, you know, 12 to 15 people a night.
And they called it Spoken Word, which I thought, there's a way to starvation.
I was like, I don't want to go see a gig that says Spoken Word, the Snore Fest.
So I've always just called it a talking show.
So I would read things and anecdote between pages.
And then one day, I just stopped bringing the things to read on stage and said, look, here's what happened when I was in Holland.
And I just tell stories.
And by the late 80s, I was doing the entire continent of Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, and it went on and on.
We're the last tours, 19 countries and 165 shows.
That's what I came back from last week.
unidentified
Wow!
henry rollins
It traveled like comedy.
It's like me and a microphone.
But it's more general admission theaters.
But every once in a while, I'll do like the Melbourne Comedy Festival, the Sydney Comedy Festival, or like three nights of comedy, and I'm like doing an hour on one of those nights.
I did a comedy club on this last tour.
There was a night off or doing a thing at like the Laugh Bucket or one of those places.
And, you know, the PA is like bolted into the wall.
There's no monitors.
There's one light.
And me and my big tour bus out front.
It's like right next to the strip bar.
And I went in there and I went, okay.
All those little 8x10 frame photos on the walls.
I don't go into places like this.
It's not below me.
It's just not my world.
Sold the place out.
The audience couldn't have been nicer.
And the owner thanked me.
And I said, man, if I'm ever back in this part of Illinois, I'll do this venue again.
And he said, we'll be here.
And it was a really good time.
And so a lot of what I do kind of lends itself to comedy in that life plus time.
Most of the time is funny.
And comedy, I don't try and I don't write material really.
But I just basically report on that which is funny.
And many things occur to me.
Either ultimately or eventually to be funny like almost anything then obviously some things are never going to be funny, but Most things are like I don't know which way your politics lean that much But you can look at the president administration go like ie we're all you know going down the drain or you can go man This is the lowest hanging fruit This dude has just jumped up on a table onto the silver platter with his ass in the air and an apple already in his mouth.
Like, this is gonna be great.
Like, he's serving himself.
He's jumped into my lap.
This is great!
And so there's different ways of looking at all of this.
And I guess comedians just look at things differently.
I've met many of them.
I'm not one.
But there's a lot of comedy, or at least humorous moments that inform what I do on stage, which allows me to go for a long time on stage, because if it had no humor in it, it would be stultifyingly boring, for me and for the audience.
joe rogan
In a lot of ways, when an administration is really fucked up, Comics do take joy in it because they know, like during the Bush administration, there was eight years of gold.
And Trump is that times five or ten.
But it's also when you find that goldmine of humor, it also equates on the other end to a disastrous time for the country.
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
And that's where it gets scary.
Environmentally, it's getting scary.
There's a proposal now to get rid of public lands and to make public lands private and start tapping into them and sucking out the resources and ruin all these places that people go and hunt and fish and hike.
henry rollins
You know, I think it's a really beautiful thing, what they call the commons in this country, where you can go to the park.
And I don't know if you ever spent time in parks.
There's a decency that you'll often find where, like, the family picks up the garbage.
And you'll even see the little kid picking up the cup.
Because it's our park.
And I'm not Mr. Kumbaya, necessarily, but I love that idea.
Like, don't screw this up, man.
It's yours and mine.
And while we're here, let's cut the crap and be really cool to each other and really appreciate these trees.
So I grew up in Washington, D.C., and you've been there.
It's a small town dropped into a park.
Everywhere you go, you run into a deciduous tree.
joe rogan
Right.
henry rollins
And it's Rock Creek Park with a White House near it.
I mean, it's just park, park, park.
And so I grew up every day.
I'm outside looking at bats and finding toads and like outside of my apartment is a park.
And I was outside all the time, and I really came to love that ethic of, this is ours.
Like when you're on the subways in Russia, there's no garbage.
They really take pride in their subways.
They're beautiful.
And it's our subway.
Don't litter.
And I think there's a rectitude and a moral decency that we Americans skew towards when we're in these places that we're all somewhat responsible for.
And to take that away, when everything becomes me, mine, I drew the line, you step over it, I kill you, all that stuff.
It doesn't bring out the best in us.
And I think those public lands are really part of what keeps us from, you know, going crazy.
And to see them be, you know, because you know there's people like Trump who look at Central Park and go, what a waste.
What a waste of land.
I could put nine hotels, four casinos, and a theme park in there.
joe rogan
Well, Teddy Roosevelt and a lot of the people that established the national park system in this country many, many years ago, they had an incredible vision.
They realized that we have this amazing landscape, and they decided to preserve it and put it in the trust of the public, make it a public thing where anyone can go.
Anyone can go and hike.
Anyone can go and camp.
henry rollins
Yeah, it's a beautiful thing.
joe rogan
It's amazing, and it doesn't exist anywhere else.
It's a really, really rare resource that we have here in America.
And right now, during this administration, we're in danger of losing that.
It's very scary.
henry rollins
You know, I'm not one who gets up every day with a hate list of people.
And I don't think Donald Trump wakes up every day going, how can I screw a bunch of people?
I really don't think that's on his menu.
But I do think he's a businessman who's looking to make deals.
The tell for me was when the president said, if Vladimir Putin agrees to help us in the fight against ISIS, I'll consider lifting those sanctions.
It's not, you know, we'll make a deal.
He does that, I'll do this.
We'll get that, he gets that.
That's a deal.
He's a dealmaker.
That's not really a deal.
In global affairs, necessarily all the time, especially not with that guy on that particular issue.
And I think he's kind of tone deaf to some of the more nuanced things that it takes to...
America in an ever more interconnected world with ever more diminishing resources and to start privatizing America, chopping up the parks and all that.
It's real sad if that happens, because I really enjoy being able to go into a place and go, "I can walk in here?" Or even like, I grew up, you know, a shy kid who didn't play well with others.
So I would go to the library all the time.
So I had that library card.
And I go, I can take this book home?
Well, yeah, you got to take care of it.
Okay.
And I'd read the book and take it back.
All those Alfred Hitchcock, you know, stories for kids or whatever.
I read all that stuff.
And the library was a big deal for me because I felt like an adult.
I have my card.
I can walk into this massive library.
Interesting, smelling, cool building.
And it's mine.
The whole thing is mine.
I couldn't believe the freedom I had in there.
These ancient seats and the place smelled of books.
And it was mine.
I never got my head...
It was never not amazing to me to walk into the library and go, like, any damn book I want, I can walk into any section and no one's going, hey, kid, get out of here.
unidentified
Right.
henry rollins
And that's what you get in a park.
And when you're in New York, there's a lot of that.
They're like, look, it's our sidewalk.
It's our subway.
Be cool, man.
And there's an inherent...
A lot of people fear New York if they've never spent time there.
And there's an inherent decency amongst New Yorkers because you are so smashed together.
You're going to make human contact.
joe rogan
Right.
henry rollins
You're going to bump into someone.
It is what it is.
So you better bring some humor and a little bit of like, hey, it's okay.
And I see that in New Yorkers, this really great greatness.
And when you make us cheap and petty and we turn into some Twilight Zone episode, that is what I fear in this country is us kind of cheating ourselves out of how great we are when you don't scare the crap out of us all the time.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, I mean Trump is just such a polarizing figure.
I hope that it unites us in a lot of ways so that we realize how good we have it and we realize what really is important and that having this guy who so many people are opposed to and having these policies that so many people are opposed to, even if you're not opposed to him.
I know a lot of people that supported him that are now looking at some of these policies, particularly the public land policy, and they're kind of freaking out.
I think a lot of that is going to unite folks, and it's going to make people understand what is important.
Like that gigantic women's march the other day.
henry rollins
That was impressive.
joe rogan
Incredibly impressive.
I mean, who saw that coming?
henry rollins
Right.
joe rogan
Out of nowhere.
I mean one one statement that he makes goofing around with a guy that Billy Bush character on a bus Essentially led to that movement.
Otherwise, why else would it be a only a woman's March when he gets in office?
henry rollins
It was because he's got this perceived attitude about women and this is a rejection of that Yeah, and I think he's getting used to being on the global stage where you know every hiccup every cough is Shifts the world's markets.
I mean, and I think other presidents have rocked that responsibility far more gracefully.
Even presidents I don't necessarily agree with, they really understood the awesome weight of that job, and they really kind of feared it and tried their best.
Even presidents whose policies I disagree with, I think they really got the magnitude.
joe rogan
When you think about your life, you know, you have this wanderlust and this passion for exploring new environments and learning about new cultures and, you know, and we're also talking about just the fucking great pull of death because it is there and it's always to be considered.
When you're looking at a guy like that who's older than us, he's 70-something years old, right?
And that fucking life is a meat grinder.
That job is the greatest aging job we've ever seen.
henry rollins
It destroys people.
joe rogan
We've seen people go in and they...
I mean, you see the Barack Obama before and after pictures.
henry rollins
It's crazy.
joe rogan
So what is going to happen to Trump?
I mean, he's a fucking old man already.
henry rollins
With a bad diet.
joe rogan
And why?
Like, what is...
When you have $4 billion or whatever the fuck he has, when you have your name on all these buildings all over the world, like, what is the motivation to continue?
henry rollins
That's what I've...
I've always wondered with the Koch brothers, the two angriest men in America, and the tyranny of Obama, they'd always opine about, like, dude, you've got $34 billion.
You can have me killed right now and all the pizza you want.
And why are we so angry again?
Where's the tyranny in your life?
$34 billion?
Shut up!
And I think with some people...
I did a movie many years ago, one of the first ones I was ever in with a very big movie star, and someone told me how much he makes in a year.
And I went, that's...
wow!
And why does he...
What's up with that?
He said, well, all his friends have $100 million, and so he wants to catch up.
I said, but after the first 50, it's like going out in the rain while you're soaking wet, going, ow, it's raining.
Like, pal, you're already wet.
Like, what do you do with the other $80 billion?
Like, what is it?
And I think with some people, it's maybe coming from some gnawing insecurity, and nothing's ever big enough.
Like, you've been around famous people.
I've met a number of big actors, or Big rock stars.
And the bigger the rock star, just my experience, the bigger the rock star, the more humble and cool they are, the more...
They love music, and they're humble in front of it, and they ask what you're doing.
I've been lucky.
I've met a lot of my rock heroes, and they're just really hoping...
When I met George Carlin once, I'd just done the Beacon Theater, and he was about to go do one of his HBO specials there.
And he said, did people get the jokes?
I said, what do you mean?
He's like, did people understand you when you were on stage?
Do you think it'll be okay?
I was like, you're asking me if your show will be okay?
You're George frickin' Carlin, man.
I mean, like, are you kidding?
And to see that kind of, not insecurity, but that kind of like, hey, did it go okay?
Because I've got to go there next.
Yikes!
Like, you're George Carlin!
You walk on water!
But the fact that he was still wanting it to be okay, that he didn't think, I've got this on George Carlin.
I was like, damn, he's still open.
He's still knowing that he could go south.
He might have a stinking night while the cameras are on.
And he still fears having a bad show.
It means so much to him.
And I think if you're in that mode, you can greet the day better.
But when you look at things like, well, I don't have as much as he has, or some guy made a nasty tweet about me, and I'm going to get on Twitter and answer back, oh no.
And I'm the president.
The point I'm making is nothing satiates that thirst.
Like, he's in the top executive slot and he's still probably grumbling about something.
Or just wanted to win.
And now that he's got it, when he did his acceptance speech, I was in Washington on the night of the election on stage at the Lincoln Theater.
I watched the whole damn thing until five in the morning when he made his acceptance speech.
And the look on his face, on Mr. Trump's face, was...
Wow, I've just sawed off a big chunk of meat for myself.
Oh, no.
It wasn't joy.
It was like, now I got to go to all those meetings.
Oh, damn.
This is a big dog I just bought.
This is a lot, a lot of, you know, a big deal.
And I just, I think one of the ways he'll escape the stress of it is I think he'll put it off on other people.
He'll delegate.
Mike Pence will be, it'll be President Pence.
And, you know, the other guy just looking good for the cameras.
And so I think that's how he'll get through it, because it destroyed Bush.
Eight years of the presidency took Bush, who was a very handsome man when he walked into office.
He came out of there destroyed.
joe rogan
And he was far younger, right?
How old was Bush when he was in his 50s when he got into office?
henry rollins
Late 40s, I think.
A little older than Mr. Obama.
And Obama, too.
Hair went gray.
He just got skinnier somehow.
joe rogan
They just get so tired.
henry rollins
Just because you don't get...
I was saying this on stage the other night.
The presidents don't get that three in the morning phone call.
Mr. President in Maine, the cat that was in the tree, the fire department got the cat down.
The cat's fine.
God bless you.
God bless the United States of America.
They come down to the Situation Room and look at the high-resolution video footage of the girls' intestines sailing through the air for the drone strike that zigged when it should have zagged.
They get bad news, and they make gut-wrenching decisions where they're like, yep, we're going in, and all those people are going to die.
Every president makes those decisions, and it's a job you couldn't pay me enough.
I wouldn't want a day of it.
And I think you either have to be either a nut or truly think, I've got this.
I'm neither.
And so I'm not that kind of megalomaniac, and I just don't ever think I got it.
And I don't know what Trump is going to do with a job that has not...
You see the last days of Johnson, and he didn't even serve two terms.
The Vietnam War destroyed Johnson.
His face was falling off his skull.
There was those sad shots of him and McNamara in the Situation Room.
His hand is on his cheek, and his face is falling down his chest.
Because every one of those deaths, I think, really aggrieved the president.
He's an interesting president.
The more you read about him, the more interesting he becomes.
But I think it's a job that fairly destroys.
The only one it didn't seem to really destroy was Clinton.
I don't know why he seemed to kind of walk out of there like, you know, hey!
joe rogan
Yeah, but he looks like shit now.
I mean, he's paid for it now.
henry rollins
Yeah, but the last few presidents, it's damn stressful.
Being, running this country, because we're so free.
I mean, you've traveled.
No country in the world enjoys our level of freedom, not our kind of freedom.
Like even Germany, England, where, you know, it's the Western world, it's free.
Nah, it's not nearly as free as this.
And we're so free to try and tell us what to do.
You don't tell an American what to do.
And sadly...
The president is part of the federal government, and so the states are already pissed off at you.
And any president, you know, you get bucketed.
You went on vacation?
Well, it's Christmas.
How dare you go on vacation?
I went to my mom and said, oh, you've seen your mom now?
I mean, there's nothing a president can do where half the country doesn't get mad.
And we'll see how our new president takes it.
I want him to be successful, because I want every boat in America to be lifted by the tide.
I want good for people I disagree with, people I agree.
I'm not that guy who wants...
joe rogan
I feel the same.
henry rollins
Yeah, I don't want...
You know, some state to go into the toilet because they don't read good or something.
That's not how I want to run it.
joe rogan
Well, I like the fact that he's talking about rebuilding the infrastructure and putting people to work in that regard and rebuilding American manufacturing.
I hope that really does happen and people do get good jobs and the economy does rise up.
What I worry about is all this corporate raider mentality backed by these people that think that he's somehow or another looking out for the little guy.
I just wonder.
I wonder what his motivations are, and I wonder how this is all going to play out.
But I guess everybody does.
henry rollins
Yeah, but to me, when someone says, oh, this new president, what he's doing is unprecedented.
I'm like, no, America's a broken 45. We just keep repeating trickle-down economics with more parts or less parts per million, in that in the early days of slavery, To be well-landed gentry in America was great.
You bought land, you bought the materials, and you built your plantation.
You bought livestock, human and animal.
When they bred, you kept the offspring.
Human, offspring, chickens, all of it was yours.
And you got free labor.
Things were great until 1865, the 13th Amendment, the abolishment of slavery.
And so that mentality of like...
You had a good day today because I didn't beat you.
That's your good day.
And here's your gruel.
And what do I pay you?
Here's your gruel.
Get back to the field and have another day where I don't beat you.
That's a good day for you.
That was an unbothered road to a brutal utopia.
And what you have over the years is these speed bumps.
Civil rights.
And that's where you get institutionalized apartheid.
You get Jim Crow.
You get an expansion of the Klan.
You get segregationist laws that sat on the books until, like, Brown v.
Board of Education, 1954. Virginia v.
Love v.
Virginia, that's the miscegenation laws, 1967. Obergefell v.
Hodges, marriage equality, 2015. And these are speed bumps.
If you're oppressive and you just want to pay this guy what you feel like giving him, minimum wage and all that stuff is your enemy, because you don't want these people being able to stand up.
And I think when Mr. Trump said, make America great again, I hate to say, I think he was talking about 1861 and the years before, when I paid you what I wanted to.
It's my factory.
How dare the government tell me what to pay you, like minimum wage?
joe rogan
You really think that that's what he means?
I mean, I think what he means...
henry rollins
Not in a mean way, like I want you to have a bad life, but look, I have a great factory.
I'm giving you a great job.
Here's what I'm going to pay.
Rejoice, you've got a job.
But it's not enough to feed my family.
Well, you know, beans on the weekend.
Cheer up!
And I don't think he wakes up every day going like, I want to kill people.
I want to murder Americans and have them have a crap life.
I just think he thinks like, look, we'll own stuff and you'll be the beneficiary as it falls from my mouth and trickles down to you.
You'll be happy that I have so much money because I'm a beneficent master.
joe rogan
Now, you're a guy that's really seen probably more of the world than one-tenth of one percent of the population of America.
I mean, you've been to so many different places.
Now, do you think that because of that, you have a unique perspective on what is possible today?
Because, like, in 2017, if you just live in America, this is the only thing you've known.
You think of the world as sort of this sort of state that we exist in.
But you having gone to North Korea, having gone to Mongolia, having gone to all these different places, we see oppressive regimes, you see very bizarre cultures where people are rigid in their ability to move around and rigid in their ability to behave and express themselves.
And you see that it could have turned out like that here.
You know, but it didn't.
We have this unique sort of experiment in self-government, and it's sort of hobbled along, and it's patched up with duct tape and Gorilla Glue, but it's here.
henry rollins
Yep.
joe rogan
It's here.
henry rollins
We are a miracle.
The fact that there's not been a second Civil War more catastrophic than the first shows you how amazing the Constitution is.
And even though we disagree a lot between the states and all of that, that we do ultimately get along.
We're all still united.
We argue a lot.
But we're still here.
And I did two years of programming for the History Channel.
I was talking to one professor and he gave me that sentiment.
He goes like, we are a miracle because let's think of all the people in this country you disagree with.
And yet here we are.
And what I have found by travel is what humans can still survive.
There's poverty in America.
Sure there is.
But not poverty like you see in Bangladesh.
Not poverty like you see in the streets of Cairo.
I mean, there's poverty.
That no American will ever experience in this country.
It'll never happen.
Like, no way.
There's a stick, a poverty stick, that this country will never be whooped with.
That, for other people in the world, millions of them, that is their entire life.
I was on a boat years ago on my way to Timbuktu with this guy I'd traveled with before, a Tuareg man named Mahmoud.
I went to the Desert Music Festival twice to see all these African bands.
joe rogan
What is the Desert Music Festival?
henry rollins
It was a festival that they had in Mali in the Saharan Desert, and now it's too dangerous, so the festival's no more.
unidentified
Wow.
henry rollins
But I went to go, because I buy all these records from Mali and bands, so I wanted to go see them do it in the desert.
So I went in 2008 and 9 or 9 and 10, something like that.
And I went over land through Dogon country one year, and then the next year I hooked back up with this guy, Mahmoud, and we took the Niger River on a boat.
The guy chain smokes every day.
And I said, Mahmoud, man, you're a freaking chimney.
What are you trying to do?
And he laughed.
He said, I'm 30. I was supposed to be dead two years ago, because people in his tribe get about 28 to 30 years.
And he just kind of laughed and kept smoking.
I'm like, okay.
And so what I've learned by travel is what humans can still, how they can still live in spite of what their circumstances are.
And what that means to me when I get back here is you have a lot to lose.
I mean, it can get so much worse and you'll still get by because humans are so resourceful and we're so tough.
But we shouldn't ever have to go near that because we're smarter than that.
And, you know, me and this other guy might disagree and he might call me a bunch of nasty names on the Internet.
But ultimately, does he really want to kill me?
Nah.
If I was in a burning car, would he try and pull me out?
Probably.
If I had a sandwich and he was hungry, would I give him half?
Yeah.
And I think to forget that aspect of us, since at least the Bush administration, where the polarization in this country has been so extreme, I think we have started to forget that we can be there for each other.
And I'm not saying we all need to have a big group hug.
people being able to stay alive.
Why are we arguing instead of just making a system where like the little old lady doesn't have to be in fear of dying alone with heaters that don't work or whatever, like, come on, We have such a beautiful patch of land.
Because, you know, I've been all over the world.
There's some parts where people live.
You're like, what are you people doing here?
Like, this part of Africa wants you dead.
Why are you here?
That's where we live.
Where America, we are, this is one long vacation we have in America as far as climate.
It gets cold, but you can always boogie down the road to Miami in a Greyhound bus in seven hours, be in your shorts.
I mean, we've got it good here in every possible way.
joe rogan
Yeah, we certainly do.
henry rollins
We really do.
joe rogan
Now, I think it's really important what you were talking about, about people on the internet and that sort of bizarre communication that we experience today.
Yeah.
You remember pre-internet?
I mean, you were a grown man before the internet came around.
Don't you think that this existence that we have right now, where we are sort of communicating without looking at each other, without being there in front of each other.
henry rollins
Yeah, unless you be really cowardly.
joe rogan
Yeah, without social cues, without feeling emotions because of cruel statements, without like looking each other in the eye.
I don't really feel like we're designed to communicate like this.
henry rollins
Well, it certainly goes against how I was raised.
joe rogan
It's very strange.
It's a very strange time in that regard.
henry rollins
Yeah, and it leads to a lot of pettiness and just really mean stuff where the issuer of that, whatever that mean email or whatever, I wonder if they look back at that a week later and you're like, man, who was I that afternoon?
Because there's stuff you can read.
It kind of, you know, it peels the paint off your car.
I mean, I go on these chatroom websites and I just read.
I don't ever post things.
I just read.
And when we had our last president, there was things said about him and his family.
You're like, did you just read?
We're just depressing.
I read like three hours of it one night in 2000 and something.
I'm like, a baboon?
Oh, man.
I mean, really, that just happened.
Someone actually thinks that?
I don't know.
joe rogan
Well, what's interesting is when they get found out and someone exposes whoever wrote that and then they focus on them publicly and you see the scrutiny of thousands, if not millions of people come down on those folks and how they fucking panic.
henry rollins
Yeah, but then those people...
Turn into that.
joe rogan
Right.
They turn into that same monster.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
They have the green light to go after them.
henry rollins
Yeah, and all of a sudden, you know, it's like a Twilight Zone episode.
Like, now you've got the stick.
unidentified
Right.
henry rollins
I'm like, you know, why are you hitting that guy?
Because he was hitting a guy with a stick.
unidentified
Right.
henry rollins
Look at you guys.
And so I come, and I'm sure you can identify with this, I come from the world of, if you say something, that guy comes around the corner and goes, like, what'd you say?
Wham.
unidentified
Right.
henry rollins
And he just broke your face.
And so I never say anything about anyone.
Not expecting to turn the corner and be face-to-face with that person.
And so if I ever talk about a politician or, you know, I had a lot of disagreements with Judge Scalia and people like that, and I'd write about it in the LA Weekly.
I would have loved to have debated the 14th Amendment with Antonin Scalia who said it didn't have any of the traction that I think it does.
And any politician I bucket on, including Trump, I do, which I have fun with.
joe rogan
What's the 14th Amendment again?
henry rollins
Equal Protection Under the Law, 1868. Basically, if you're born and raised here, you get all the same protections as the wealthy land guy.
It was basically slave protection.
It was the one that came after the 13th.
It was to sure up the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery.
It's my favorite amendment of the Constitution.
It's five clauses.
Two, three, four, and five are basically governmental mechanics, but it's the first paragraph, and it's beautiful.
All people born and naturalized in the United States are a resident of the United States and of the state wherein they reside, etc., etc.
And it's a beautiful thing.
I think that was put in place to make sure racists understood that the 13th Amendment wasn't going anywhere.
And that's what gives people like, well, you're an anchor baby.
That's just the 14th Amendment.
And Scalia didn't.
In his dissent on Obergefell v.
Hodges, he came down very hard on the 14th Amendment, which is my personal favorite.
My rationale is if I talk about somebody, I expect to see that guy within five minutes and have to answer for what I said.
So I am very careful with what I say because I take responsibility for what I say.
Like, you said something mean about Dick Cheney.
Yes, I did.
He's right over here.
Really?
Can I talk?
Please let me.
I want to talk to him.
joe rogan
If you stare at him, he'd turn to stone.
henry rollins
Well, you know what I mean?
I don't say anything that I'm not ready to...
joe rogan
Have you ever met Ann Coulter?
henry rollins
No.
joe rogan
After you wrote that thing about her?
You had that thing and you wrote about her and then there was a video of you writing it?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I really, really enjoyed that, by the way.
henry rollins
Oh, thank you very much.
I'd love to meet Ann Coulter and just spend an evening with her and just figure out...
joe rogan
What the fuck is going on?
henry rollins
How do you get so much self-loathing?
How do you do that?
joe rogan
She's so odd.
henry rollins
I know one female comedian, who I'm sure you're very well aware of...
And she knows her.
Well, you know, they've met on, like, Bill Maher or something.
And I said, what's she like?
She said the self-loathing is, like, just off the charts.
She's not a bad person.
You feel kind of sorry for her when you're in the green room with her because she just hates herself.
And, you know, Ms. Coulter's not here to defend herself.
But that's what I've heard.
She's not a bad person.
She just, you know, reads every tweet about herself and stays up at night with all of that.
joe rogan
You know, Bill Maher is friends with her, which I've always found very odd.
Like, he talks about her as his friend, and he has her on, and they joke around, they're jovial together.
And I'm like, well, what the fuck is going on there?
Like, well, who is she?
Is she this act?
henry rollins
I think she's a little bit of both.
joe rogan
Yes, a little bit of both.
A little bit of an act.
henry rollins
She knows how to butter the bread.
She knows that she says stuff that's over the top.
It helps her sell books and gets her airtime.
joe rogan
Recent one with the Trump book she wrote.
I mean, just the cover alone was like so bizarre.
henry rollins
But it's there to piss you off or get you inspired.
And eventually you can go to some market and buy those books for $5.
Because honestly, they don't sell.
joe rogan
Her books don't sell?
henry rollins
Not really.
That's why you can buy them for five bucks.
I have a few of her books.
I bought them at places like Costco with a big sticker on them.
I've read like a couple of her books.
They go through fast.
I read the Bush's autobiography.
I got that at Costco.
joe rogan
She wrote a Bush autobiography?
henry rollins
I read George W. Bush's autobiography.
Yeah, it was a Crayola coloring book for adults.
There's no footnotes, there's no index.
But you kind of end up liking him after the book is over.
Really?
Yeah, because he doesn't seem like the worst guy.
But I read Sarah Palin's last book, America by Heart.
I got that at Costco.
joe rogan
Is it written in crayon?
henry rollins
No, but it's like 80-point type.
It's like a 5,000-word feature in a skinny book.
It's funny, but I read these books.
I want to see sometimes where these people are coming from.
There's that fellow, that internet terrorist guy, the guy with the long polysyllabic Greek last name.
joe rogan
Internet terrorist guy.
henry rollins
Yeah, Yana Papakopoulos.
He has that book.
He's on his spoken word tour right now, the Dangerous Faggot Tour.
joe rogan
Oh, Milo.
Milo.
Milo Yuinopoulos.
henry rollins
Yes.
joe rogan
I've had him on a couple of times.
henry rollins
Okay.
He's interesting to me.
craig jones
He's a fucking weirdo.
joe rogan
He's a very interesting guy.
henry rollins
He's incredibly smart.
He has a book coming out in March.
joe rogan
Yeah.
henry rollins
And I wrote in the Only Weekly two weeks ago.
I said, I'm going to read his book.
I want to read it.
I don't think I'm going to find consensus, but I'm honestly interested in finding out where this guy gets off.
Because he doesn't offend me.
I just kind of feel bad for him.
joe rogan
Why do you feel bad for him?
henry rollins
Just because it's a lot of aggro to kind of drag around.
I mean, you have to kind of invent all of that.
She's fat!
Just say it!
Oh, pal, you're just manufacturing stuff.
That must be a real drag to...
joe rogan
I would like to see the two of you guys talk together.
I think that would be kind of fascinating.
I actually enjoy Milo.
I enjoy his company.
I enjoy talking to him.
He's not a bad guy, but a lot of the stuff he says is retarded.
henry rollins
But he's trying to get someone to jump out of their seat.
joe rogan
For sure, yeah.
He's calculated.
henry rollins
He has a book coming out called Dangerous, I think.
It's on Amazon.
joe rogan
His whole thing is the dangerous faggot tour.
And he can't have that on the cover of a book, so it's just dangerous.
unidentified
Right.
henry rollins
But I went to Amazon in show enough.
It's coming out in March, I believe.
And so I'm going to read it.
joe rogan
It'll probably be a bestseller.
He's smart.
henry rollins
Yeah, I know he's smart.
But I was just interested to see...
I mean, I read a big part of Dick Cheney's autobiography.
joe rogan
What is that like?
henry rollins
Fascinating.
joe rogan
Is it in Latin?
Like ancient Latin?
henry rollins
No!
But like, you know, the guy's had 80 lives.
I mean, he's served under like five presidents or something.
I mean, he's not a boring guy.
It's been a very interesting life.
You know, Nixon, Ford, Reagan.
He's been in the Oval Office a lot.
He's been in that building a lot.
He knows where all the bodies are buried.
And I don't...
Want to live with these people, but as far as like seeing, you know, reading what they have to say, I'm curious in that way, in that I want to know what is on someone's mind I might not agree with all the time.
joe rogan
Right.
Well, it's a good way to broaden your perspective, get an idea of how their brain checks.
henry rollins
Everyone is essentially coming from the truth, their version of it.
That's acting class, right?
You've got to be in that moment or whatever.
And when I see these Trump rallies, these people really do hate Hillary Clinton.
They hate Barack Obama.
And they really do want to build that wall.
It's all as real as me sitting here with you right now.
And I might not agree, but you can't not say they're sincere.
They're burning analog.
It is as real as anything you've ever felt is real.
I don't necessarily want to get into the inner mechanics of that person, because I kind of already know where it's coming from.
A lot of xenophobia and half knowledge.
But you can't say that they're not legit.
And you just saw that they spoke quite loudly, and Mr. Trump won, well, not the popular vote, but the Electoral College, certainly.
And so I want to know more about who I share a country with.
I can't spend all day with it, but I do designate some bit of the day to try and figure this out.
Otherwise, how do you get up the road if you don't know?
Because I don't want...
My enemies in America.
I don't want enemies in my own country.
People I disagree with, yeah.
But ultimately, I want to get up the road with them.
In order to do that, I don't want to get beat up by some guy getting out of his pickup truck to drill some freedom into my forehead with his fists.
Because, you know, I'm just not built for it.
And who is?
So I'm looking for a higher way to get up the road.
I'm not all that hopeful.
But I still try and dissect or forensically go through that American id.
I travel...
Through America, it's what I've been doing for 36 years.
I meet more Americans than any president.
I hear the stories, like you hear the stories.
Henry, my friend died in Iraq, and he loved you, and I hear that story.
My friend killed himself last month, and I'm really screwed up about it, and I want to tell you about it.
So I hear, I get a lot of input.
And it makes you like all these people.
Like, I'm the fat gay guy in Utah, and no one likes me, and my parents kicked me out of the house when I was 18 because I'm gay.
And like, you go, oh man!
You don't want to be mad at anyone when you hear stories like that.
All you want to do is give them a Devo record and go, keep breathing, kid.
Don't self-harm.
And so the more stories I hear, it makes me want to be more decent to my fellow Americans, understand us better.
And that's one of the reasons I travel globally.
It's one of the reasons I do a lot of shows in America.
And I do a lot of listening.
And I think that's what we don't do anymore.
But when you log on to Patriot 185 and you give some liberal snowflake, whatever they call these people, some grief on the internet, you're only listening to yourself.
You just like disagreeing with people and piling on.
It's very frat boy.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, you definitely can get into an echo chamber and lose perspective.
henry rollins
And you don't get out?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, I think what you're saying is beautiful because, I mean, it is a good idea to have an open mind and try to find out why these people think in a diametrically opposed way to the way you think.
Or find out what is their motivation?
What was their background?
What caused them to reach this conclusion?
henry rollins
And ultimately, how can we get going?
joe rogan
Right.
henry rollins
You know, because life is short, and I want renewable energy in my time.
I don't want it to be feared.
I don't want solar panels to be gay.
I'm sick of this.
joe rogan
Who says solar panels gay?
henry rollins
Is there anybody?
You know what I mean?
That whole idea of, oh, were you a science guy?
Were you a pussy?
Yeah, right.
Yeah, that's what scientists are.
joe rogan
Well, that's one thing.
Whenever you tweet something...
About global climate change.
One of the first things that happens is these trumpets jump on board and they start attacking what you're saying and then tweeting like, I don't know if they've researched it or not, but it's just like immediate attitude that the people on the right seem to have.
Where they immediately want to dismiss anything that diminishes industry, anything about climate change, anything that protects the environment, whether it's about this Dakota pipeline access thing that Trump is just getting involved with.
henry rollins
Yeah, he greenlit it.
That's intense.
joe rogan
Well, you know what?
That was going on during the Obama administration.
That's something that people need to recognize.
There's not a single fucking president that's really looking out for you.
There never has been one.
There's not one that you can really enjoy.
Every single one of them is doing some creepy shit.
And that whole thing where they were cutting easements through private land, they were arresting people on their own fucking land, they were saying that they had the right to drill through their land, that was during the Obama administration.
Started during his administration, supported by his administration, and they stopped it towards the end.
But it's almost like I kind of know that they stopped it knowing that Trump was gonna start it right the fuck back up as soon as he got in office.
henry rollins
I think the last few months of Obama, that's why he kicked the Russians out.
Because, like, let Trump bring him back in.
Let Trump lift that.
joe rogan
Let him be the bad guy.
henry rollins
Yeah, and get that headline.
And he'll greenlight that pipeline.
I think Obama had some fun on the way out, knowing that Trump is, you know, first week is going to turn it all around, and everyone gets to point the finger.
That's politics.
And that's why I don't love any politician.
And I've never wanted to meet one.
I wouldn't walk.
I come from Washington, D.C. You'd see him all the time.
You know, they've got to eat somewhere.
And I've never...
I wouldn't walk five blocks to go meet one.
joe rogan
I'd like to meet Jimmy Carter.
He's probably the only guy that I really want to meet.
henry rollins
I'd like to see him speak, just because, you know, I've never watched a president speak.
I think it'd be interesting.
But I just, I wouldn't mind meeting Jimmy Carter.
But I just kind of know they're all kind of cut from kind of the same bolt of cloth, just the different amounts of puke on the cloth.
joe rogan
Right.
So, like, if it's raining outside and they're outside, they're wet.
henry rollins
Yeah, because they're politicians.
As Gore Vidal said, by the time you get to the executive office, you've been bought and sold at least a dozen times, willfully.
joe rogan
How do you fix that?
henry rollins
By being a good person, because there's so much of it you can't fix.
The only way to fix it is to go local.
And, like, when Trump became president, I just did eight shows at Largo in L.A., and a lot of people were kind of, you know...
And I said, look, when they start pushing against LGBT rights or women's reproductive health rights or freedoms, we'll neutralize.
You know, we'll be doing benefits.
We're going to, like, you know, Planned Parenthood, ACLU, Southern Poverty Law Center, any LGBT activist group, we can get involved and start kind of neutralizing this and slowing it down.
This is not a time to be dismayed.
This is punk rock time.
This is what Joe Strummer trained you for.
It is now time to go.
You're a good person.
That means more now than ever.
Because as a voter, you know, you throw your penny and throw it in the sea.
That's all a vote is.
It's just like nothing.
Like, you don't even hear it fall.
But you can be thunderous in your own life and being cool to the eight people around you.
And that, you know, it rubs off.
Goodness is viral.
joe rogan
It resonates.
henry rollins
It really does.
And so I work locally.
Like, right...
As far as my eyes can see, I work there.
There was an orphanage in Los Angeles I contributed money to for years.
They've kind of morphed into something else now.
But I work locally, and if everyone worked like a yard in front of them, it would start looking really good.
So you don't have to change the world.
You can just change your street.
joe rogan
Yeah, and changing the world, what a daunting task.
henry rollins
But it happens when enough people change their street.
And so, as a Los Angeles resident, I'd be happy to work inside the county of L.A. doing good stuff.
Whatever I can figure out to do.
You don't have to...
Because you're not going to push Congress around.
They seem to be loving to sit still.
So you can work locally.
And so going forward in this country, when it gets better is when the electorate gets better.
It's what Jefferson taught you, a vigorous, educated electorate who votes and votes and votes to keep American government and democracy a transparent lens, as transparent as possible.
And that's what you can do in this time like don't you're not gonna move to Canada like the Canadians are gonna have you but you can be your decency now means more it's a it it's a more into a Fruitful currency.
It just means more now to help that guy out.
joe rogan
It's it's a help your help basically I also feel like great things get done in times of conflict absolutely We have something to push back against people organized like that women's March, you know exactly I Where you go, wow, decency is under threat.
henry rollins
I never thought about that.
Let's go.
And all of a sudden, your life has some definition.
I like adversarial relationships.
I'm not looking to get into an argument with you.
I'm just saying, like when I go on tour, it's not me versus the audience.
It's me versus the stress and the magnitude of the tour I've bitten off for myself.
And I get the fear of failing my audience, and I love that.
And I battle that fear all day.
Go to the gym, because you better put eight miles on that treadmill, because you've got a show tonight.
There's a sort of Damocles over your head.
Don't eat the pizza.
Eat that, because you've got a show tonight.
Don't screw this up.
joe rogan
When you decide to do eight miles on a treadmill, how do you feel like that benefits you when you do a show?
henry rollins
Mental toughness.
Like, I'm tired, I'm jet-lagged, and I'm going to be on stage in 40 minutes.
I'm so damn tired.
And then all that training comes in, and you're like, man, this is going to probably be the best show I've ever done.
Then you start laughing.
Like, man, I'm really tired.
This is going to be awesome.
And you go out there and crush it.
joe rogan
Now, when you do your shows, do you write it out in long form?
henry rollins
No.
But, you know, I've already written...
Yes.
I've already written out in my journal, because those journals become books.
I take tons of notes.
joe rogan
You write longhand or you type?
henry rollins
Both.
On my leisure days, I like to handwrite, so I just like writing.
But mainly, I don't have the time, so I've got to type it up.
joe rogan
Lefty?
Are you a lefty?
henry rollins
I'm left-handed, yeah.
And so, I... I've learned that you can't take too many notes.
You can't write enough.
Like you have to take 80 details of the last hour.
You forget it the next day because you're tired.
And so when I'm on stage, I have no notes and it's all in the front of my brain pan.
So if I'm going to quote the Constitution or quote a president or years that the Supreme Court did whatever, I just have to put it.
I memorize all of it and I just carry it around with me.
And before I go on stage, to center myself, I quote Lincoln from his speech, the speech to the perpetuation of our governmental institutions, I think it's called.
It's the speech to the Young Men's Lyceum.
It's been quoted.
One of his first ever speeches, he's really young, 1838, I think it was, in early January.
And I just quote parts of it to myself and kind of get ready to go out there.
joe rogan
How does that help you?
henry rollins
Just eliminates the rest of the day.
So it's like all I have in my life is a show.
I don't care about anything else.
My whole life is tonight.
And I don't want anything else in the way.
I think it was Bjorn Borg, some elite tennis player.
I read this in Sports Illustrated when I was a kid.
He said, I just basically concentrate to eliminate everything that's not the match.
I was like...
That'll work.
And I was hyperactive.
It took me years to be able to really embrace that.
But when I go on stage...
After a show 25 in 25 days, man, the only thing getting you through it is your love of being on stage, my love of the audience, and I love them.
Like, just crazy obsessive.
And just the fact that I'm not thinking about how tired I am and how tired I'm going to be.
I just, all there is, they go, and go!
And I walk out there.
And I've spent the last hour eliminating the other parts of the day.
joe rogan
So do you have an outline of what you're going to talk about?
henry rollins
In my mind, yeah.
joe rogan
Only in your mind?
henry rollins
Yeah.
Sometimes I'll, at the beginning of a tour, just to kind of get back in that groove, I'll write a page of notes.
I'll talk about this, into that, into that, and I look at it and I kind of walk it through in my mind.
And like, okay, you basically memorize where all the furniture is in the living room so you can run through it with your eyes closed and not bump into anything.
And so when I go on stage, one thing tends to go into the next.
And I just, all of a sudden, I have a stopwatch.
I bring it on stage and put it down for the audience's benefit, not mine.
Because if I'm not careful, the shows will go well over two hours.
And I look down like, oh no, these poor people.
I've got to start landing this thing.
And any story takes you like 20 minutes to get in and 10 to get out.
So I'm like, okay, we're taxiing.
I can see the runway and I'll let them go in 15 minutes.
And I apologize.
I was like, I've kept you here for like two hours and 20 minutes.
I'm really sorry.
I swear I'll be done with you in like 10 more minutes.
joe rogan
But I would imagine they want you to keep going.
unidentified
No, dude, more!
henry rollins
But I just don't want to keep them there for three hours.
I do, but I can't.
joe rogan
Right, you don't want to...
Well, it's want to leave them wanting more.
henry rollins
And just don't leave them going, like, that was really long.
I'm never coming back to this again.
That was like having four molars being pulled.
Because I always tell them, I'm desperate for your attention and your approval.
I really need you to keep showing up.
Because without you, I'm the tree that falls in the forest unwitnessed.
And if you're not here, man, I got nothing going on.
joe rogan
Now, when you would do, like, say if you do a 25-show tour, if you go out for 25, are you doing the exact same thing verbatim?
henry rollins
No, no, no, no, no.
I'll have one or two big centerpiece stories.
Like, on the last tour, many nights of the week, I talked about the time I had lunch with David Bowie, because he had passed away last year.
And he was really, really cool to me.
And it's a fun story.
And I told some Lemmy stories, because Lemmy from Motorhead had died in the weeks before the tour started.
I said, well, you know, Lemmy's gone, and My fans are very big on Lemmy and Motorhead.
And I have a lot of stories.
I hung out with Lemmy a lot.
And he's just a wonderful guy.
Really amazing guy.
So I would tell some Lemmy stories.
And those would kind of fall in and fall out.
And then things would happen in the world.
And that would come into the mix.
And sometimes if something is really relevant...
I can connect it to something else.
Almost any country that falls down, I've probably been there.
And I go, well, okay.
Here's what happened in Syria today.
Now, when I was there, I can pull my afternoon in the El Hamidia Souk story out.
And so I have...
I was on...
RuPaul is a long-time pal of mine.
He's one of my favorite humans.
RuPaul?
Yeah, just an amazing human being.
unidentified
Really?
henry rollins
Smart, funny...
And has had to run more than once because he's a black guy in a wig.
I mean, someone wants to beat him up.
And he's just one of the more extraordinary people I've ever met.
And I met him at band practice in the 90s.
He practiced down the hall from us.
And we became pals.
And so I talked about the time I was on RuPaul's Drag Race as a judge, which was hilarious.
But I talked about that story because I was just on his show, RuPaul Drives, where he puts a microphone on you and a GoPro camera, and he drives you around L.A. doing errands, and he interviews you, and he chops it up into content.
And so I was able to tell my being a judge on RuPaul's Drag Race story because I could segue into...
The day we ran errands, the normal places I go, because I live alone.
I'm very much a solitary type.
I made this story about how I walked into all these places, and the only time I've ever come in with someone else is the one time I walked in with a six-and-a-half-foot-tall black guy.
And everyone who knows me in all these stores goes like, oh, Henry's finally found someone.
And it was a story about perception, because you'd see the looks on their faces like, oh, hey, Henry.
Right, I always thought so.
It was hilarious.
And RuPaul and I would leave these places, and we'd just laugh hysterically because they think we're an item.
And we eventually had lunch in West L.A., and we were recognized by everyone on the sidewalks immediately.
People taking photos.
And I said, RuPaul, I think we've become a power couple.
And this, to me, is an anecdote I would tell on stage.
And it's funny...
But I'm not making up humor.
I'm telling you something that happened that was funny.
That's how I get to humor.
I basically stumble into it.
Like, whoops, I got humor on my shoe.
And it was funny.
Because I got email like, dude, you're not going out with RuPaul.
And I would write back these really funny, ambiguous email letters back.
I'm like, well, as a new couple...
We don't want external factors to determine what this thing is going to be, so right now we're just going with the flow.
And there's some kid in the Midwest whose head just exploded because I wrote him back, well, you know, we're just checking it out.
Let him post that wherever he wants.
I don't give a damn.
And so that's what informs the shows as the tour rolls out.
That story will be in the, you know, I'll do like 20 nights with that and then it falls away and it comes back like three weeks later.
Because I tour for months at a time.
Fiscal quarters go by.
joe rogan
And you don't have an opening act.
You just go right on by yourself.
henry rollins
By myself, yeah.
Sometimes, like, in Australia, they have a rule where if, you know, four people in your band, your American band, then four Australians have to play, too.
And I like that.
And so, a couple of times, I've had a comedian, really good guy, he opens for me on some of my bigger Australian shows.
He didn't do it this last time, but his name is Bruce, and he'll go do, like, 20 minutes, just so we can say, we did that.
And he's a great guy.
He's so hilarious.
joe rogan
But I work in Australia, and I bring American comedians to open for me.
I don't understand that.
henry rollins
Well, they just have this one-to-one thing.
The Canadians have it, too.
Like, if you're going to play, they want a local band playing, too.
So you'll usually have a Canadian opener.
joe rogan
But when I go to Canada, too, I bring American comedians to open for me.
henry rollins
And I've done tours where they didn't make me have an opener who is Australian, and I've done tours where they did.
Like, I just was there last year.
In 2016, like for a month of shows.
No opener.
I thought it was going to be my buddy again.
And they said, no, no insist.
I go, how am I doing that?
But not last time.
And it was explained to me and I didn't care that much.
joe rogan
I know they have that Canadian content rule when it comes to like television, right?
And radio, I believe, as well.
I think Canadians, I think there's a certain amount of Canadian content you have to have.
henry rollins
Right.
On the radio and in television in Canada, but usually I'm just on my own like the last hundred and fifty six shows I There's no openers.
joe rogan
Do you get lonely on the road like that?
henry rollins
No, I don't have that chip.
I used to get lonely when I was young.
You know, you had a girlfriend or something, and now I'm kind of like a lizard.
You're like, you know, this lizard has had no one in its terrarium for 80 years and still keeps eating bugs.
Yeah, I'm Henry Rollins and I still keep eating bugs.
No, I don't get lonely at all.
joe rogan
Wow.
henry rollins
I just don't have the...
I have faulty wiring or something.
No.
Not at all.
joe rogan
That's super unusual.
Depressed?
henry rollins
Yeah, sure.
Depression.
Feelings of blankness I have in combat.
But that's one of the reasons I go to the gym.
That kind of blows that away.
Music helps.
But lonely?
No.
I miss people who are dead.
I miss dead people because you can't talk to them anymore.
Like when my best friend's mom died, I miss her a lot.
But...
No, otherwise I see people when I see them.
You have to remember, basically, I'll be 56 in a couple of weeks.
I've been touring since I was 20. I've been playing the away game.
That's kind of what I know, where being off the road is difficult.
I live in a nice place.
It's cool.
A lot of records, a nice stereo.
It's got kind of all I need.
But after three days home, I'm bored.
I'm missing the tour bus.
I wish I was back on tour.
joe rogan
Man, there's a lot of people like that that have that wanderlust thing.
Anthony Bourdain has that same thing going on where he can't be home for a couple weeks.
He's home for a couple weeks.
He's got to get the fuck away.
henry rollins
Yeah, I feel like I would like to leave.
I don't want to run out of this building now, but if someone said, hey, you want to go to Iceland tomorrow?
I'm like, yeah, I can be packed in.
Give me 20 minutes, man.
Just keep the car on.
I'll be right out.
Yeah, and I'll go.
I'm hoping for some good location work this year.
If they said, you want to go move to the Czech Republic for a year and a half and make two seasons of a TV show, I'd say yes before I asked what the part was.
unidentified
Really?
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're going to get an offer now.
Some dude from the Czech Republic right now is banging on his keyboard.
henry rollins
Well, you know what I mean?
There's like these gigs you get where they go, hey, do you mind going to live in this part of the world for six weeks to make a movie?
I'm like, I'll be there in two days.
joe rogan
Wow.
henry rollins
Oh, yeah.
No, I run stuff like that.
joe rogan
Man, I'm just totally opposite.
henry rollins
Everyone's different.
joe rogan
Yeah.
henry rollins
Do you have a family?
joe rogan
Yeah.
henry rollins
Forgive me for not knowing.
joe rogan
Children, wife.
henry rollins
Oh, well, then that's your home.
joe rogan
Yeah, but even if I didn't, I just never really, before I had one, I just never really enjoyed being out that much.
I like going away and coming back.
henry rollins
Yeah, I get you.
joe rogan
And I like being home for long stretches.
I feel more productive at home.
henry rollins
Huh.
Yeah, for me, all the good writing, the good thinking, the good workouts, it all comes from being on the road.
I just burn cleaner.
My mood elevates.
When I'm off the road, every day I wake up in my own bed, I feel I'm kind of failing.
And I'm wimping out.
joe rogan
Really?
At home?
You're failing and wimping out at home?
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wow.
henry rollins
You know what?
I put that on me.
I'm not saying anyone else is.
I wouldn't dare.
I don't get to tell people what to do.
But for me, every day I'm not out in the world, I'm thinking I'm trying to dodge the ball instead of deflecting it or catching it or getting hit by it.
Yeah, I'd rather be out.
Wow.
The people I travel with, my road manager and our merch guy, we've been traveling the world together for about a decade.
And we all, like, wow, we're off this bus in two days.
I guess I'll start packing.
None of us want to go.
unidentified
Wow.
Yeah.
henry rollins
I mean, my road manager, he has a family, so he's looking forward to being back with them, of course.
But me and the merch guy, man, we're just, you know, two solo acts swinging from vine to vine.
And so this year, I don't have any...
I got like a few talking shows.
I'm going to keynote this cannabis thing in a couple of weeks in San Francisco.
joe rogan
What is that?
henry rollins
It's a thing for cannabis entrepreneurs.
And since I don't smoke marijuana or any cannabis product, but I'm pro-legalization and decriminalization, they want me to speak on that.
And I said, I'm in.
And so I've got a couple of gigs.
But beyond that, I've got nothing going on this year.
So I'm waiting for an audition or a meeting and someone gives me a gig.
And if I don't get any of that, then I'm just going to pack my bags and find some jungle and some desert and go dig it.
joe rogan
Now, when you're writing something about cannabis and you don't use it, I mean, you obviously had a long history with drugs before you got clean.
unidentified
Me?
joe rogan
Yeah.
henry rollins
Oh, no, sir.
joe rogan
Never.
henry rollins
No, I got drunk like four times in my life.
I smoked marijuana once on 711 Hamilton Street in Trenton, New Jersey.
joe rogan
Nothing?
henry rollins
It was after band practice.
It was really boring, and my bandmates were smoking a joint.
I said, can I try that?
And they said, you?
I'm so bored, I'll try it.
I hated it.
joe rogan
So you never really had that time in your life where you were fucking around with drugs?
henry rollins
I tried weed once.
I had a few experiences with Michelob in 10th grade.
I just didn't like it.
I tried LSD a handful of times.
Interesting, but easy to lose your mind.
Tried mushrooms a few times.
And when I did that thing at the strip bar with...
For that TV show.
It was drug stories.
And they said, do you have one?
I go, yeah, I'll talk about the time me and this girl were on acid driving her car and damn near got killed.
And so, you know, she was crazy.
She's dead now.
But I told that story about being on acid.
joe rogan
That's probably where I got it from.
henry rollins
Oh, yeah.
Of my six acid trips.
joe rogan
So when did you just decide to go completely clean?
henry rollins
Well, I never really got started in my career as a drug addict.
joe rogan
I mean, I'm not even saying an addict.
I'm saying someone who uses it.
henry rollins
Oh, no!
No, it never...
I'm wired in such a way that any stimulant is kind of a depressant.
Like beer, and the times I drank, I just, you know, four beers, I'd throw up on my shoes.
I wasn't good at it.
I didn't enjoy it.
I just did because I wanted to hang out with the gang, like my dumb-ass friends at school.
I didn't like it.
I didn't like the dizziness.
It didn't make me happy.
It just made me stupid.
The time I smoked marijuana, I just sat there waiting for it to be over.
I sat trying to figure out how to pick up a glass of water.
I'm like...
How do I do that?
And all my bandmates are experienced stones.
They're like, you do that, Henry.
I'm like, thank you.
Because I just couldn't understand picking up a glass of water.
joe rogan
Well, you went too deep.
henry rollins
Well, I just said, how long does this last for?
They said about 20, 30 minutes.
I said, okay.
And I just sat and stared at my watch and waited it out.
Acid was interesting.
Where you're like, wow, I could lose my mind, so I just better concentrate so it doesn't run out of my skull.
Mushrooms are fun.
You laugh your ass off for three hours.
And that wasn't so bad.
But I just didn't see anything to pursue.
I tried it.
It was the same thing every time.
And that's kind of my entire history...
With drug use.
That was it.
joe rogan
Except caffeine, right?
henry rollins
Yeah, but this...
I would drink...
That's a small cup of coffee.
This will last me, believe it or not, all day.
joe rogan
One cup?
henry rollins
I drink a cup a day.
I make a cup of coffee and I just sip it.
So what I'm thinking is that I'm medicating with caffeine, like an antidepressant, and I use it as an IV drip.
Because I never drink cups of coffee.
I drink one.
joe rogan
So you just start off hot and by the end of the day it's just this cold...
henry rollins
Yeah.
But I sip it, and I think it's like just a drip IV of caffeine.
And it must be, because I always have a cup of coffee with me, and it's always half full.
Like on the weekends, if I'm off the road, I go to coffee places and sit and write for hours and work on book manuscripts.
And I'll buy the small coffee, like this one, and three and a half hours later, I'll leave.
And I just drop it in the trash because it's still about three quarters full.
So I don't drink a lot of coffee in the wintertime.
I'll drink a cup of tea in the morning and have a part of a cup of coffee.
I'll drink all of the tea.
joe rogan
What fuels you to be so prolific?
You're saying you write an article a month for the LA Weeklys?
unidentified
No, no.
henry rollins
A thousand words a week.
joe rogan
A thousand words a week.
henry rollins
Yeah, which is not easy that you write for a Rolling Stone of Australia once a month and then I write I try and write a thousand words a day for myself and I have right now Five different books in various states of completion and that's not some college guy saying my manuscript these are they're done and I'm by day I edit and I'm editing the next journal book, travel book, and then at night I'm writing another journal book and working on one of two different music books.
I do a series of music books called Fanatic, where I, you know, rare records and labels like music geek stuff.
And so I work on those at night.
joe rogan
And you also host a radio show.
henry rollins
And I have the weekly radio show.
I just filled in...
Oh, tomorrow in England, BBC Radio 6, I'm filling in for Iggy Pop.
He took a vacation from his show.
So I filled in for him last week and this week as well.
So I did those shows.
So I'm always busy.
And so stimulants...
Would get in my way.
What powers me, it's not money, it's not ambition, it's anger.
I'm one of those people, I wish there was a better way to say it, but it's vengeance.
You laughed at me in high school, man.
You said I wasn't going to be anything.
Really?
Like, watch this.
joe rogan
That's still pushing you at 56?
henry rollins
I hate to say it.
unidentified
Oh yeah.
joe rogan
40 years later.
henry rollins
Oh yeah, all of it.
Like, you know...
My dad, you know, he was a big money guy.
I'm like, okay, you love money so much, watch me outgross you and your whole damn family combined.
And I don't even care about it.
I just like achieving it.
And it's one of the reasons when the agent goes, okay, five shows on, one off.
I'm like, oh, no, no, man.
No, no, that's a day off.
You put a show in there.
Like, why?
Because, like, screw that, man.
Watch me do it.
Put two shows on that night.
What, you think I can't?
I'm just...
Like I said, I set up adversarial relationships.
I'm not against you or anything.
I'm just saying, like, I have to have something to push against.
Like a schedule that is like...
The schedule is like Godzilla.
Like, you can't...
Finish this.
I'm like, really?
Man, I'm going to serve you up and eat you every day like a steak.
And I just have to have that.
And so I'm getting back.
And I think of all the people I was in bands with, I have to crush them.
Everyone I grew up with, I have to powderize them.
joe rogan
That's such a weird motivation.
henry rollins
It sucks.
It's immature.
It's an 11-year-old sandbox.
joe rogan
Wow.
But you're aware of it.
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
Which makes it even stranger, because it's not something that you're just operating under.
It's controlling you, and you don't understand it.
henry rollins
No, I quite enjoy it.
joe rogan
Yeah, so you use it.
henry rollins
Yeah.
I'm not an actor, but I go up for acting parts.
I'm basically going in there and winging it, and I get to go up for really big parts.
There's a little bit of trepidation, knowing I'm going in there, but then I think, like, oh yeah?
Sony.
Whatever, man.
Line it up.
And I almost like run out of my car, like, you know, where are you at, man?
And I'm not trying to impress you that I'm a tough guy, because I'm not.
I just need to, it just needs to be trying to tell me I can't.
And that informs everything I do.
Instead of just dialing my radio show in, I work on that sucker for like five hours.
It has to be all hand-picked.
No, that song.
Not that one.
This one.
And I make like three drafts of it.
It's intense.
It's one of the reasons why I live alone.
I work all the time.
Like, hey, come out on this weekend.
No, it's 7 p.m.
on a Friday.
I'm working.
Like, I'm not fun.
joe rogan
Dude is constant.
henry rollins
Yeah.
unidentified
Wow.
henry rollins
I'm not fun to hang out with.
joe rogan
Do you vacation ever where you just chill?
henry rollins
No, I can't.
Intellectually and existentially, I can't understand the idea of a vacation.
I make a joke on stage.
I say I want to come back 10 pounds lighter with an internal parasite.
I want to come back with like a scar where the spear kind of grazed me and eight great stories and a dangerous insect in my bag.
I don't want to sit on the beach and soak in the rays.
I want to get sunburned by, you know, being in the desert and like, you know, figuring out how the sun won't try and kill me by noon.
That's the Sahara.
And so that's how I go about it.
joe rogan
So part of your motivation is actually the perception by other people of what you're doing.
Like, understanding that what you're doing is so undeniable.
The volume that you're putting out.
henry rollins
And the intensity.
joe rogan
Yeah, the intensity.
So undeniable.
Like, I'll show you motherfuckers.
henry rollins
Yeah, absolutely.
joe rogan
Wow, that's so weird.
henry rollins
Even with people who like me.
Like, yay, Henry's here.
I'm like, yeah, I'm here.
joe rogan
Check it out, bitch.
henry rollins
Check this out.
Yeah, here's a place you won't go.
And it's not that I have any aggression towards these people.
I just want to burn brightly.
And it's not about money.
It's not about I'm better than you, because I don't think I'm better than anybody.
I just want to explode as much as possible.
And I think, to my audience, it's to their benefit.
He's like, that dude's going to go out there to a place I don't want to go.
He's going to come back with ten great photos and a story about how he nearly lost his foot.
It's great!
And, like, put me in, Coach.
That's the game I want to play.
That's what I go for.
And I'm not trying to...
I'm just trying to...
Like, in high school, I was like, you know, the wise-ass kid who had awful grades.
I was on Ritalin.
I was a mess.
joe rogan
You were on Ritalin in high school?
henry rollins
I was on Ritalin since, like, right out of preschool.
Holy shit.
If you look at the early government documentation on Ritalin, this is not a joke.
Oh, there's these big books.
My mom had them.
There's photos of me.
They tried Ritalin out.
I was part of a test group.
unidentified
Holy shit.
henry rollins
And we would get little orange tablets, and then we'd get little yellow tablets, and we'd have triangular orange tablets for a while.
And I went to a place called the National Research Center, and I was a hyperactive kid.
And they said, here, we're trying this stuff out.
My mom had me on Ritalin.
From, like, preschool all the way to 12th grade.
joe rogan
Holy shit!
henry rollins
And in the summertime, summer vacation, I wouldn't take it.
And within a day of that stuff kicking itself out of your system, man, your appetite comes back.
And in 9th or 10th grade, I started weightlifting, and I started, like, throwing the pills out.
Because...
It's speed, and so it suppresses your appetite.
And so I'm going through puberty, my hormones are raging, and I stopped using the tablet.
And all of a sudden, I'm that guy at lunch with the line of milk on the outer edge of the tray, because I'm eating tons of food.
I'm a locust, because I'm going to the gym, and I'm just getting really...
My frustration is now being informed by a physicality that I'm getting by lifting weights.
So all of a sudden, I'm putting muscle on, And I'm angry at the world.
And I'm a spaz.
And so by 12th grade, I was kind of a maniac.
And then I got into punk rock and, you know, just got into that slugfest and just kind of went into the world.
Just kind of wildly swinging away.
joe rogan
Why did they put you on Ritalin at such a young age?
henry rollins
Because it's what they were doing in America with a lot of young people who talked too much or, you know, had bad social skills.
Well, I had attention deficit and couldn't concentrate.
I got thrown out of the D.C. public school system for being, you know, he's yelling, he's doing this.
And I actually read a couple of teachers' reports about me years later.
And I said, I had no memory.
I said, I did all that?
They kicked you out of school.
Yeah, and I got kicked out of a few schools until they put me in a prep school where the advertising is like, oh, your kid has problems with studying?
We'll cool him out.
And the first few days of school, some kids spoke out of class, and I watched this one teacher pick this one kid up and just kind of toss him into a blackboard.
I went, right!
In his class, you shut up.
And so I didn't want to get a thrashing by a teacher, so I was always really careful.
But having that difficulty sitting down.
And I was fine with topics I liked.
I didn't, you know, I didn't groove on math or any of that.
But at lunchtime, I'd go to the library and start memorizing the Latin nomenclature of every North American snake.
I had to learn them all.
And by, like, 10th grade, I had...
And I have most of it still in my head.
joe rogan
I'm always very confused at these medical distinctions, whether it's ADHD or hyperactive or ADD, whatever the fuck it is.
Is that real?
Or do some people just have a different composition, a different passion inside of them, and they resist doing things they don't want to do, and they don't want to be a part of any structured school curriculum?
I think all of it.
But yeah, and is that a disease or is that or do you just have more fucking looking right now?
You don't have any pills.
You're not on anything and yet you have all this passion for life You have all this isn't that the same shit that you had when you were six?
henry rollins
Yeah, it's just it was undisciplined and unfocused but that's not a disease, right?
I don't know.
I mean, I wouldn't call it a disease I think it's just wiring right, but why the fuck is it named?
joe rogan
Why is it ADHD? So they can sell you a pill I know, but isn't that crazy?
When you look back at your own life, the fact that you were on that shit for...
I mean, what?
How many...
henry rollins
A lot of years.
joe rogan
Eight years?
Nine years?
henry rollins
And it really screws with you, because you can feel it when you take the pill.
You can...
You're basically...
You're a propeller that spins so fast.
It looks like they're spokes of a wheel, like the wheel is still, but it's actually going really fast.
That's how it felt.
Like, on the outside, I'm like this pale, skinny...
But inside, I'm like the last few minutes of Dave in 2001, where he's going through the space-time continuum, and everything is flying by.
That was like 10th grade for me, where I just kind of held onto my desk and fairly flew through classes, like not being able to retain much, because I was just speeding my brains out.
And then the pill would wear off around dinner, and all of a sudden you're like eating two meals.
And the next morning you take the pill and you don't eat again.
For hours.
joe rogan
That is fucking crazy.
henry rollins
It was nuts.
joe rogan
It scares the shit out of me, too, because my parents didn't put me on anything like that, but I know I would have.
I know I would have been diagnosed.
I know I would have been put on something if I had the wrong parents.
henry rollins
Yeah, my mom put me on this stuff probably because...
My doctor said, you know, hey, Iris, this helps a lot of kids.
But I was in these classes, and I'll never forget one day I'm going through my mom's books.
There's this big honking hardcover book, and I opened it up, and I saw a contact sheet of me.
I'm like, wait a minute!
That's that...
And then I saw the camera angle and I realized there were these mirrors on the wall.
They're observation rooms.
And I'll never forget one day I'm looking at that mirror and a door opened from the side and my mom walked out.
And we were being observed.
And the camera angle was from that observation room.
And there's me playing with blocks and stuff.
I'm like, I remember that sweater.
Oh man, I'm like four.
And that was part of that research group.
unidentified
Wow.
henry rollins
And maybe because my mom was a government employee?
I don't know.
But I went to a place for two years called the National Research Center.
I got thrown out of there.
unidentified
Wow.
henry rollins
For wounding a kid.
joe rogan
What'd you do to him?
henry rollins
I threw a bunch of powdered cement in his face.
Pfft.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Now, when you started lifting weights when you were in 12th grade and you...
henry rollins
No, no, more like 9th or 10th.
joe rogan
9th or 10th grade?
henry rollins
Yeah, early teens.
joe rogan
When you stopped taking the pills, did you feel like the exercise did for you what the pills were kind of supposed to do for you?
henry rollins
The weightlifting, you know, I had this coach.
He's mentioned in that article that you were talking about the iron.
I talked about Mr. Pepperman.
joe rogan
Yeah.
henry rollins
And I was in his carpool.
He was a Vietnam vet.
And he once said to me, I have to quote, he said, you're a skinny little faggot.
Thank you, sir.
And he said, I'm going to teach you how to lift weights.
I said, okay.
It's more attention than my dad gave me.
So I said, I'll take it.
And so he taught me compound lifts at the school gym.
So I bought a Sears and Roebuck sand-filled weight set, which I couldn't drag to my mom's VW fastback.
And eventually I did.
By three months of that wait, I'm fairly throwing it across the room.
Because, you know, you're growing so fast.
Like your muscles are recovering overnight.
You just do the same workout every day.
You don't even feel it.
And he said, you're not allowed to look at yourself until Christmas break after Christmas exams.
And this was like in September.
So I didn't.
I did everything he told me to.
And then he dropped me off before the Christmas break.
He said, now today you can look at yourself in the mirror.
And I ran home.
I ran home.
And I tore my stupid school uniform off and I stood in the mirror.
And my body had definition.
I'm like, wow, those are pecs.
I mean, I looked like I was a guy who lifted some weights.
And it was self-validating.
Like, wow, I'm here.
I did that.
I'm looking at myself going, I did that.
No one can lift those weights for you.
And the feeling of achievement it gave me, that I accomplished that.
Was a shot in the arm that I still feel to this day.
joe rogan
Wow.
henry rollins
I mean, because it was so like, wow, you can do this.
That's possible.
joe rogan
Right.
henry rollins
Because every other time, trying to meet girls at the school dance, I had no guts to talk to the girls, so they were alien creatures.
I didn't do well in school, so you could make fun of me.
I couldn't throw the ball straight, so they would throw it at my head to watch me run.
And so I didn't have any traction anywhere.
And then when I had the weights, I'm like, wow.
I'm filling out my t-shirt, man.
joe rogan
Noticeable improvement.
henry rollins
Hell yeah, man.
joe rogan
Work plus effort equals results.
henry rollins
Yeah, and I couldn't, didn't make my grades better because I still, you know, it was all Swahili to me.
Schooling was just obtuse to me.
joe rogan
It was probably too late.
henry rollins
I just, you know.
I was not good at sitting still.
But when I had the summer jobs, that's when I kicked ass.
I never had an allowance.
My mom never said, here's 20 bucks.
I'm like, where'd Henry go?
He's got three jobs over the weekend.
I'd wake up in the morning, go to the pet shop, work all day there, run home, shower, change my clothes, do the night shift at the movie theater, take the bus out to the surf shop in the suburbs and I'd repair skateboards and whatever on Sundays.
So I always had pocket money because I liked working a cash register on my keychain in school.
I had the keys to stores.
Bosses trusted me because I'd never steal.
So I would work like 20 hours a week and go to school in high school.
And part of that was informed by the weightlifting, and I like getting out of the house and being responsible.
But in school, it didn't mean much to me.
But showing up on time at the pet shop and cleaning out 20 cat pans, man, that was like I had to be there at 8 o'clock, not 8.01, man, because we got things to do.
I felt a real fealty.
And to this day, if I'm ever on a film shoot, who's the guy who's there early, man?
That's me.
I'm there.
I memorize the whole damn script.
I'm so happy to have a job.
I'm amazed anyone cares.
And so all of that, it keeps me on the straight and narrow.
I call myself a human frozen yogurt machine, just output.
I don't want the applause.
I like to build ships.
I don't want to sail in them.
And the best part about finishing the ship is it sails off to sea and you can build another.
So I love finishing a book.
Get this thing off my desktop.
Now I can start a new one.
Like, where can I go now?
And so that's how I live.
To achieve and to output.
But it's not...
I don't ever look at...
I have a thing on my computer.
It's called The List.
And I keep a list of every show, every book I've written, every movie I've been in, every album I've ever made.
And when you look at it, it's intense.
It's like...
joe rogan
You keep a list of every show you've ever done?
henry rollins
Oh, hell yeah, of course.
joe rogan
Wow, of course.
I don't know anybody who does that.
henry rollins
Yeah, and sometimes I write down the set length.
I take a lot of notes.
joe rogan
Wow.
henry rollins
Oh yeah, I write them all down.
But I have this one thing called the list.
And it's just like, you know, every film, every TV show, every voiceover, every book, every record, on and on.
And sometimes I look at it just because I have to input like the new book comes out.
I have to go to the thing and input.
And I look at this list and my bones start aching.
I'm like, man, this is a lot of crap.
A lot of crap this came out.
Yeah.
And I don't wave it around and go, see what I've done?
I just kind of go, I'm only interested in what I'm doing and what I'm doing next.
joe rogan
So why do you record it then?
Why do you write all that stuff down?
henry rollins
I like leaving a good trail of evidence.
And I like to be able to, when someone will say, I saw you in 1985 in Champaign, Illinois.
I'm like, no, that would be 1983 or 1986. We didn't play there in 1985. How do you know that?
Here.
It's right there.
See?
And they're like...
joe rogan
Whoa.
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
You got a fucking list from 1983?
henry rollins
Oh, I have every show since I was in Washington, D.C. with my first band.
joe rogan
So you've written down every single show you've done in your life.
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
You should publish that.
henry rollins
Well, it's in, you know, my journal books of the years I was in Black Flag.
That came out as a book.
joe rogan
But I mean, you should just publish that list.
You should put it up online or something.
Just so people could look at it.
Yeah.
henry rollins
Yeah, I have a lot of...
There's a lot of those kind of things.
joe rogan
You really should, just so people can feel lazy.
Just to look at that and go, what in the fuck?
Because sometimes, you know, something like that will change the way a person looks at the world.
To know that someone like Henry Rollins is out there recording every single show and here's all...
Like, you get this feeling.
Like, I'm getting this feeling when I'm talking to you.
Like, I want to go do something.
For real.
henry rollins
Get out of this interview.
joe rogan
No, no, no.
I love this interview.
I want to fucking accomplish something.
This is something that I... When I talk to people that are really motivated and really passionate, it gets me fired up.
And I'm listening to you talk about this stuff, and I want to go do something.
henry rollins
Yeah, that's all you get to do in life.
You get to do stuff, and then you die.
It's over.
And it's over fast enough anyway.
So for me, I don't tell people what to do.
joe rogan
This is a very compelling and attractive attitude you have, though.
It's very interesting.
henry rollins
It keeps me going.
And I never get to that point where I've been to enough places, or I've written enough books, or I've done enough radio shows, or I've bought enough records.
There's never enough records.
There's never enough time to do everything.
And I like living with that kind of...
Aspect of desperation, we are always kind of like, oh, come on, man, let's go!
And I like that, because it keeps the, as I say, it keeps the blood thin, and it keeps complacency at the door.
I have my bad days.
I'm like anyone else.
I'm just a, you know...
joe rogan
Yeah, but your bad days are probably ridiculous.
You're burning so hot.
I mean, your bad days are probably like an average ambitious person's, you know, quality time.
henry rollins
I don't know.
I mean...
joe rogan
I don't know, man.
It's pretty intense.
henry rollins
But it's one of the reasons why I pick the people I work with.
Like, today you met Heidi, who manages not only me...
But all my companies, and she's basically, she and I have been working together for damn near 20 years.
She's amazing.
And she's air traffic control.
Because if I'm not, I'm never careful.
I say yes to every damn thing.
And she's like, you can't say yes to that because you're going to be over here on this day.
She goes like, stop answering the phone.
I got this.
So she, like she's the one who coordinated all this with you.
joe rogan
Right.
henry rollins
Because I, you know.
I'll go and do it, but I'm not good at setting it up.
And so she locks in the coordinates.
And so I work with people who are used to kind of my velocity, like the road manager.
In a way, I'm very easy on Road Manager Ward.
I wake up, I go to the front of the bus, and he's already written out the map for me to walk to a gym.
So I wake up, I go right to the gym.
And I always want the same thing.
I want a gym, I want this, I want a gig, and then I want some sushi, and I want to go to sleep.
But it's intense, and there's hardly any days off.
So he knows how to...
Keep all of that going and the phone is ringing because I work in different media all the time and so Heidi's always juggling eight chainsaws and so I'm around people who can allow me just to really run at it and go as fast and as hard as I want to.
I call it living at the speed of life.
You just kind of go You let your imagination and your resolve dictate everything.
And to be able to do that and still keep the lights on, I'm just a lucky bastard.
And so I try and be really cool about it.
joe rogan
Well, this humility is very contagious too.
It's very nice.
It's very nice to hear that you have this attitude about it.
henry rollins
I don't know everything about you, but you and I do enough of the same stuff.
Come on, man.
We get in free to stuff all the time.
Doors open.
Stuff that other people pay for.
They just give you two of them, man, because they just like the fact that you came by.
And so the only way not to be a jerk with all of that is to don't take it too seriously and to be as grateful as possible.
And that's what we're...
Several minutes ago, I said I've met, you know, some big movie stars and rock star types.
The bigger they are, the more grateful they are, because they know they are just lucky bastards.
And all, like, your ACDCs and Black Sabbaths that I've met, they're, like, the most humble.
You know, they're just so happy they got a gig, and it's going pretty well.
joe rogan
Yeah.
henry rollins
And they just know that they beat the grind.
They obviously had something to bear.
They had something that the world says wow about.
But they also at the same time know that they're not going to take the same caning that a lot of really good people who don't deserve it are going to take.
It's what Bukowski wrote about.
He said, man, you've got to beat the grind because, man, this life will kill you.
It'll just use you up.
And so I'm not looking to escape any beatings, but to have an idea and get to do it and turn it into something that kind of pays me.
Like I can go into the world, have these crazy things happen, come back with photographs and a story, take it on stage and I can tour on that and people show up.
Damn, man, I should just be saying thank you every other breath.
And that's what I try and maintain.
joe rogan
You're obviously very prolific.
What do you do with all your money?
You seem like a guy who probably wears those kind of clothes all the time.
You probably live in an apartment.
henry rollins
I got 20 of these.
joe rogan
Do you live in an apartment?
henry rollins
No, I got a house.
unidentified
Do you have a house?
henry rollins
Okay.
I have a lot of records, so you need some room.
I spend money on records, plane tickets, and the occasional lens for a camera.
joe rogan
That doesn't cost a lot.
henry rollins
No.
I drive a Mazda 6. What?
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do you do that on purpose?
henry rollins
I live in LA, man.
joe rogan
Do you fly economy?
You one of those motherfuckers?
unidentified
Yeah.
Son of a bitch.
henry rollins
I have over a million miles on United.
joe rogan
I bet you do.
They're probably trying to upgrade.
You're like, no, no, no, no.
I'll take the aisle seat.
henry rollins
Give me the middle.
I save them up for when I go on tour.
Like last year, I was in Australia twice.
And so that's where I use the miles.
joe rogan
You fly to Australia economy.
henry rollins
Well, no, I upgraded into business because I had already saved up the miles.
But usually I fly economy, yeah.
unidentified
Why do you do that?
henry rollins
Because I will not justify spending $2,000 for more leg room for seven hours because you can buy a truckload of records of that money.
joe rogan
Right, but you already have that $2,000 in the bank.
It's not like you need that $2,000.
henry rollins
I was really broke-ass in a band for many years, and all the money I made, it came with a lot of sweat and a lot of pain, and I must respect it.
And I'm not saying to put yourself in business class as being disrespectful to money.
What I'm saying is I can't justify it.
I simply cannot go, that was worth it.
I can't do it.
I just can't.
joe rogan
How many records do you think you have?
henry rollins
Oh, I don't know.
It's like triples, man.
They just keep showing up.
joe rogan
Wow.
henry rollins
Last night I listened to ten records, five LPs and five singles.
joe rogan
And when you sit down and listen to records, is this a solitary pursuit?
Just headphones on?
henry rollins
Oh, no, no.
I'm in front of a pair of Wilson XLF Sophia 3s.
What is that?
joe rogan
He's an audio engineer.
He just started typing as soon as you said that.
henry rollins
Yeah, you type him in and your laptop will go, oh, damn!
I'm sure he knows what he is.
It's a good system, but the one thing I miss when I'm on the road is my music, just easy access to analog.
And so when I'm off the road, I have a file on my computer called I Heard That, and I write down every record I listen to in the order I listen to it, the exact pressing.
Like last night I listened to a David Bowie single, Golden Years with Can You Hear Me, but it was the pressing from El Salvador, and I had to write that down.
Because I'm that guy.
Do you have a picture of the Wilson Alexandria Threes?
joe rogan
Wow.
So when you're sitting down and you're enjoying this music, you're just sitting down and enjoying this music.
You're not doing this, oh wow, those are badass.
henry rollins
Oh no, no, no, no.
A few models up, my friend.
I've got those too.
Those are Sophia's.
Go to Alexandria.
There you go.
Yeah, they're so big it takes a while to buffer.
joe rogan
Whoa.
henry rollins
Yeah, they're 660 pounds each.
unidentified
What?!
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
These are in your living room?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Holy shit, dude.
Now, what is the benefit of these?
henry rollins
Oh, they sound good.
Every frequency is realized without even pushing the system.
It's a system you don't play loud.
You can play it at medium, and it's full saturation of frequency.
joe rogan
What the fuck?
Look at these goddamn things.
henry rollins
Yeah, mine are silver.
joe rogan
Why is this website so shit?
It's not our internet service.
It's fast as fuck.
They don't give a fuck about the web.
These are probably some weirdos just like him.
henry rollins
Because they're just meticulous builders.
unidentified
Yeah, I guess.
henry rollins
And it takes a while.
joe rogan
Look at those speakers.
That's insane.
It's a stack.
So you have two stacks and you just face them towards you and you sit on your couch?
henry rollins
Yeah.
Yeah, and I'm looking at those.
joe rogan
Wow, that is a maniac's stereo system right there.
henry rollins
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Okay, so you...
henry rollins
And so that's what I miss when I'm on the road, are those two.
And when I come home, I play a lot of records.
And so last night, to listen to all that music, it took about four...
joe rogan
Hours or so to get through all that music and you're just sitting there taking in the songs.
henry rollins
I'm writing you're right.
Yeah, I'm taking notes on things and I'm working writing in my journal and Just writing and listening.
I got a cup of coffee and Cold cup of coffee.
Yeah, it's from I made it the night before actually and And so I'm drinking the lower the second half of this cold stale coffee and Jesus Christ, man.
And half a glass of Perrier water.
I like that lime bubbly water.
unidentified
Wow.
henry rollins
And that's my big kick-ass night.
Like this weekend, a band called Sleep is opening for the Melvins and they're playing two nights at the Fonda, so I'm going to both nights.
Because I love both bands.
And so if there's a gig in town, I'm going.
If they're playing two nights, I go both nights.
joe rogan
So you're still deeply involved in music and as far as you're being a fan and you appreciate it.
But you just don't have the desire to perform anymore.
henry rollins
No.
I came into music being a fan.
And I left.
I will always be a fan.
It's a drag when you meet a musician who's not a fan of music.
Like, oh, come on, man.
No one's like, oh, these bands all suck.
I could really don't.
joe rogan
I feel the same way about comedians that aren't a fan of stand-up.
I love stand-up.
I still love stand-up.
I think that's something that people lose somewhere along the line sometimes.
Some of them do, and it's really sad when they do.
henry rollins
I go to gigs all the time.
It's funny, but it's also sad.
A lot of times these bands write me because I play them on my radio show.
Hey, man, we're coming to The Echo next week.
We're going on at 11.30.
I'm like, ah, it's a Tuesday, man.
I can't.
I can't go see you at 1130 at night.
joe rogan
Why is that?
henry rollins
I'm just too damn tired.
I'm like, damn, I am really my age.
Because you say 1130 on a Tuesday to start a gig.
I'm like, I'm sorry.
Daddy just got really tired.
And I just have to go, sorry, man.
You know, I can't do that and be at my office the next day.
unidentified
Wow.
henry rollins
I wanna.
If it was a Friday, yeah, or Christmas break.
But I'll be at the Fonda both nights this weekend seeing those bands.
joe rogan
So when you say if it's a Friday, so on weekends, do you have a relaxed schedule on Saturday and Sunday?
Do you allow yourself some leisure?
henry rollins
I'll sleep as long as I want, and I listen to different records.
During the week, I do protein listening.
Which is records I haven't heard yet.
And so just, you know, you have to really concentrate.
And on the weekends, I do carbohydrate listening.
Whereas records that I'm familiar with that I just like to listen to.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
So just like a sort of a light thing.
henry rollins
Well, just like songs, you know, albums I've had for 25 years that I still like to listen to.
And that's like, you know, chili and soup and bread and potatoes.
And then during the week, it's sashimi.
And clap push-ups.
joe rogan
What a strange life you have, man.
henry rollins
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
It's very original, I'll tell you that.
henry rollins
It's different.
Yeah, if you're, you know, be weird, live weird, you know?
Weird is as weird does, I guess.
joe rogan
Well, you get involved in relationships, you get a girlfriend or something like that, and they realize, like, what...
henry rollins
What I'm getting involved with and I realize I can't hack it.
Because here's the awful thing about being an adult in a relationship, seeking to be an adult in a relationship, I have found.
When I was young and I was a boy and I was dating girls, It's boys and girls and she's an idiot, you're an idiot, you do dumb things and everyone cheats and whatever.
Then you hit a certain part of your life where she's a woman and you're a man and you have adult expectations.
And you can't be running around being an idiot with someone who kind of wants you to be at the table because they are sincerely giving time of their adult life to this thing that you were doing together.
And when you come in still thinking you're in ninth grade and she's coming in like...
This is part of what my life is, is being with you.
I have never been able to answer that in a mature enough way to where I would have been able to maintain it.
Because, like, say, next weekend, if I had a girlfriend, she might say, it's Friday, what are we doing?
I'm like, oh, watching me write for four hours?
laughter And so that's not the way to be.
You can't do that.
And so I can't be a good person's other half, because the work has always attracted me more than coming home to someone.
I can't stand the idea of living with a person.
I can do it on the bus because it's Das Boot and we're going down the road.
But I never would want to wake up and she's there.
And I have no aversion.
unidentified
A fucking expression that you just made, where you like, look to your right, she's there.
henry rollins
Well, it's every day, here we are together, and I'm just not wired that way.
I would be a drag, like, you haven't spoken to me in 20 hours.
Huh, I didn't notice.
And I'm just work-oriented, and so...
I'm not interested in wasting anyone's time.
I'm not interested in being mean.
I'm really not into it.
And so, I'm not the...
This woman was hitting on me a while ago, and I said, ma'am...
joe rogan
You called her ma'am.
That's a problem.
henry rollins
Well, she was very persistent, and I said, ma'am, I'm like a hunting dog.
I'm a dog, just not the kind you pat.
You know, I'm just not...
I'm sorry.
You should stop this.
joe rogan
She's imagining holding your hand, coming to your spoken word shows, going to dinner with you, talking about your day, and you're in front of your fucking crazy speakers and you're writing.
henry rollins
Hoping the phone doesn't ring.
Right.
I unplug it on the weekends except on Sunday my best friend since I was 12 and he was 11 were still best friends.
Ian, you ever heard of the band Fugazi?
Yes.
Okay, well Ian McKay, he's my best friend and we grew up together doing music and everything and we talk almost every Sunday and so we've been best friends since the Carter administration.
Wow.
And so Ian will call on Sunday.
We'll talk for a while.
Otherwise, the phone doesn't ring.
If it does, I'm like, oh no, why?
I thought you liked me.
Why are you calling?
I thought you liked me.
unidentified
Why are you calling?
Yeah.
henry rollins
If you liked me, you wouldn't write me.
But meanwhile, I'm contentedly just working away.
And so...
I'm good for...
I'm like a racehorse.
Just watch me run around the track, but don't need to feed me any oats.
I got a trainer.
joe rogan
You're very rigid in your behavior pattern.
I mean, you've got it locked in, you know what you enjoy, you know what makes you content, what gives you happiness and appreciation.
henry rollins
Yeah, and it's kind of a replicant Vulcan.
You know, humans don't play a large part in it.
Like, I don't need to go hang out with my friends on the weekend and, hey man, you didn't call, man.
What's going on?
Don't call.
joe rogan
But you do appreciate those humans that come to see you perform, and you feel a deep obligation to them.
henry rollins
Absolutely, yeah.
And I serve them.
And I like servitude.
I like wanting to give them something good.
I make the best hash I possibly can, and then I sling it with everything I've got.
I just don't want to hang around afterwards and talk about it.
I'd just like to do it.
If I could just say thank you, goodnight, walk out of the building into a moving vehicle and be 10 blocks down the road before they get up out of their seats, that would be fine.
I don't know what else there is to do except hit it and then quit it.
And so it makes some interactions a little uncomfortable.
I like these people a lot.
They have no idea how much I just want to just rock their world with like a book or a show.
But beyond that, I... Hey, come and hang out with us.
I don't know how to do that.
joe rogan
But you do get appreciation from hanging out with people that you meet when you go on your journeys.
henry rollins
Sure.
You meet someone on the road, like some guy in his village, you know, alright, so man, what's your day like?
You know, what are you eating?
Okay.
Where do you get your water from?
Show me that.
joe rogan
And do you differentiate that because they're so unusual and their life is so...
henry rollins
It's just, you know, it's information extraction.
You're just, you don't really know that person and they're not...
It's just a different relationship.
joe rogan
But you don't feel that connection to someone that you meet in real life in America?
henry rollins
I meet them and I'm polite.
It's just that...
Some people want to, like, hang out and be your friend all the time.
I just don't understand it.
unidentified
You get the same expression that she's there.
henry rollins
I just...
I'm not trying to be a jerk.
unidentified
I understand.
henry rollins
It just doesn't compute.
And so instead of, like, hey, we're all going to go down to the park, come with us, like, well, how about I just make you a really good book?
And...
And I'll price it as cheaply as I can.
unidentified
Wow.
henry rollins
And we'll just let that be okay.
joe rogan
Wow.
henry rollins
How about I'll just email you and say, I hope you're having a good day, and we'll just let it go.
joe rogan
And you don't seem to have any problem with anything that you're doing.
There's not some things that you're trying to resolve or work through.
You found this thing.
You found this way to do it.
henry rollins
This is my groove.
I come from Washington, D.C. And I love that city.
And I go there every once in a while to visit.
And some nights I visit with my good pal Ian, of course.
But some nights I just walk.
I'm on my own.
And I walk to all my old jobs.
And I walk by apartment buildings I lived in.
But I walk by people's houses.
People I grew up with were these amazing musicians.
They all became big musicians.
And I know they're in there.
Sometimes I can even see them in the window.
Yeah.
I don't want to go in.
I just like walking by their place and knowing they're in there.
And like, literally, I've walked, I've seen someone I grew up with, like, on the street, and I go, oh, there he goes.
Okay.
Well, Henry, why don't you run up and tap him on the shoulder and say, hey, man!
No.
I just like the fact that I just saw him walking.
That's all I need.
joe rogan
Wow.
henry rollins
Yeah, it's weird.
And I've been like that since I can remember, and it gets more...
Like that, the older I get.
joe rogan
Well, that would make sense, because as you get older, you're more rigid in your ways, and your groove is cut deeper and deeper.
henry rollins
Yeah, and a lot of the stuff I do, it takes a bloody long time to finish it.
You want to write a book?
Man, you better get ready for the long haul, because you'll be working on that sucker two years later.
And, you know, it just never ends, like editing revisions.
And, you know, the tours I go on, it's not like two weeks, it's like 13 months.
Like, I'll see you next year.
joe rogan
You do that, and then you take time off, right?
You do like a long stretch, and then you take time away from the tour.
henry rollins
Yeah, and the only reason is if I had my way, I'd be on the road every year, and I'd have hours of new material, and no one would ever get tired of me coming to their city once a year.
And I used to tour like that for years.
I'd go out every year.
And people are like, Henry, we love you, man, but you've got to start coming here less often.
It's a little offensive.
You just keep coming like, hey, it's me again.
And so then I started doing it every other year.
And then my promoter types, who are happy to take their 15%, they said, Henry, we love you, man, but you can't keep coming so often.
People are just getting a little up to here with it.
joe rogan
Even every other year?
henry rollins
Yeah.
joe rogan
But spoken word?
henry rollins
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
I would think that that would be enough time.
henry rollins
Me too.
I wish it was.
And so I did what everyone told me to this time around, because I know these people are all smarter than me.
And they said, can you wait a little while longer?
And so the last big tour is 2012. And I went out again in 2016. That was four years.
Basically, I went from one presidential election to another.
And the ticket sales spiked everywhere.
London was like 1,500 more tickets than I've ever done there.
I sold out two nights at the Sydney Opera House in Sydney.
It was amazing.
And I said, what's that about?
They said, you waited.
He gave people a time to forget how long you talk for.
And so it's sad to think that I have to wait until 2020. But I can do a little weekend here, a weekend there, but I can't go do the lap I just did next year.
No way.
joe rogan
But you want to.
henry rollins
Oh, man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like being on stage.
I love being in front of those people.
I like giving.
I guess getting is the hard part.
Like when people applaud at the end of the show, I just get nervous.
I just want to run.
I stand there like 1-1000, 2-1000, 3-1000.
Okay, I'm out of here.
joe rogan
Wow.
henry rollins
Yeah.
It just makes me uncomfortable.
joe rogan
Wow.
Listen, Henry Rollins, you're a unique motherfucker.
I don't think I've ever met anybody like you.
Well, thank you, sir.
No, I know.
I know I have not ever met anybody like you.
But I appreciate you.
I appreciate what you're doing.
And I appreciate your attitude.
And it is very contagious.
It's very exciting.
henry rollins
Thank you, sir.
joe rogan
And infectious.
And thank you very much for doing this.
unidentified
Thank you.
joe rogan
I really, really appreciate it.
Thank you.
henry rollins
You got it.
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