John Anthony West challenges mainstream archaeology at CPAC, arguing a dwarf star—like Sirius B—causes Earth’s 25,920-year precession cycle, dismissed by academia despite ancient Egyptian records (Palermo Stone, Turin Papyrus) dating rulers to 34,000–36,000 BC. Erosion on the Sphinx and Gobekli Tepe’s 12,000-year-old precision suggest lost civilizations, possibly linked to a 10,000-year-old solar catastrophe. Sumerian tablets (4000–5000 BC) depict accurate celestial motifs, while Egypt’s buried chambers and Nabda Playa’s alignments hint at advanced, unified cosmology—one modern science struggles to acknowledge. [Automatically generated summary]
It means there is no ranch, but Rancho Mirage, which is somewhere near Palm Springs, And it is about exactly what it says, a conference on precession and ancient knowledge, and it questions, to begin with, the whole scenario, the standard scenario about what causes precession, which is supposedly a kind of a wobble of the earth caused by nobody knows exactly what.
And the counter theory is that it isn't that.
It's that there is a dwarf star of some sort orbiting the sun, upsetting the balance of the celestial mechanical balance of it.
And that makes a difference.
You say, well, what's the difference?
One way or another there's precession.
It does make a difference actually in the big picture because it means that our solar system It basically conforms with all of the other solar systems, which mostly are dual in nature.
Sirius, for example, has the dwarf star that circles around it, Sirius B, that's responsible for all sorts of measurable phenomena.
So it starts off from there, but then the ancient knowledge comes in because Precession, and this is a big mystery, precession seems to be a factor of virtually every ancient society, be it sophisticated, a la China and India, South America, Mesoamerica, or so-called primitive, a word I hate to use.
It simply means unintellectualized or not expressed in coherent Western philosophy, for whatever that's worth.
But precession is a known fact discovered actually a long time ago.
You'd think by now it'd be common knowledge and everybody would teach it in school, which is sort of a joke.
It's kind of interesting that people don't teach it, right?
It is a very bizarre thing that it's so prominent in ancient cultures and ancient society that they literally mapped this out, this 26,000-year cycle, this wobble of the earth, and that we rarely talk about it, ever.
No, because it upsets the notion that there's a knowledge of this going back to ancient times presupposes that there's a very advanced observational astronomy dating at a time when supposedly people were still living in trees.
So this is actually a big deal, hence the Conference on Precession.
And the ancient knowledge comes into it because understanding that there is a highly sophisticated scientific knowledge This understanding that goes back not just to ancient Egypt itself but far thousands and thousand millennia beyond upsets what is effectively the reigning religion of today except it doesn't call itself a religion.
It calls itself science which is based supposedly on reason.
It's not.
None of those things are true.
It's not based on science and science is not based upon reason.
Well, some science is, but archaeology in particular is very rigid in its ideas, and a lot of it is based on the professors that have written books and that teach these ideas, and they don't want to let them go.
And when new knowledge is discovered that challenges those ideas, they fight it rigorously, even if it's knowledge like the stuff that you exposed with Dr. Ron Schock, Robert Schock, rather, which was the water erosion on the Sphinx.
Which we were talking about before the podcast, which is one of the best pieces of evidence, because the last time there was rainfall, heavy rainfall in the Nile Valley was, what was it, 9000 BC? Is that what it was?
They debate it, but anyway, it's way before the beginning of...
Dynastic Egypt.
And then it's a question of how old or when those reigns fell.
Because an interesting bit of thing here that I'm now at liberty to relate publicly.
Originally, I wasn't...
When I first got shock over to Egypt, which is a...
Another two-hour podcast in itself, the history of getting Jacques interested in this stuff.
And when he finally agreed, very hesitantly and very skeptically, to come along because he had to see the evidence for himself, and I scraped together a bit of money to bring him over.
And we got into the Sphinx enclosure.
I don't think it got in legally.
I think we bribed our way in very early in the morning.
Well, in Egypt, everything is possible.
And bribed our way in and he walked into the Sphinx enclosure.
Actually, when we get that up on the screen, you'll see the level of the water or the extent of the weathering of the water weathering.
And Schock looked at it, and everybody else walks into the Sphinx enclosure and has this, actually, this shock of recognition in the presence of this fabulous work of sacred sculpture, in fact, of sacred sculpture.
And Schock looked, but Schock is a, no, that's not, it was way back, Jamie, right to the beginning, first slides.
And Schock Everybody else sees the Sphinx as a work of art.
Schach sees the rocks.
He's a geologist.
Back like this.
And he said, wow, these rocks look like they're hundreds of thousands of years old.
And he said, don't quote me on that.
Because that's, of course, absolute heresy, that the most spectacular sculpture on earth should be tens of thousands of years.
Actually, even the 4,500 years that it's associated with Do not conform with anybody's idea of how civilization developed.
This goes back to your—of why the academic, I call it the quackademic establishment, is so— It passionately defends the old paradigm the way that it does because the reigning paradigm, the reigning religion today, which is not acknowledged as religion, is that this is the church of progress.
And it's credo, just like the virgin birth is the credo of early Christianity or present-day Christianity, not that they know what they're talking about.
The credo of the Church of Progress is, A, we are the most sophisticated human beings that have ever lived on the face of the planet with our hydrogen bombs and our nerve gas and our striped toothpaste and our Disney lands.
We're the best that ever was.
And secondly, that progress, as it's called, goes in a straight line from primitive cavemen up to ourselves.
And when it becomes self-evident, That in very, very ancient times, they had knowledge of precession, which is an incredible thing too.
It's almost unimaginable that it happens through Careful observation because the Sun, I don't know if all of the audience will know what this is, so maybe it's worth talking about.
The Sun, if you look at the spring equinox now, the Sun is rising against the last bits of Pisces.
It may even be in the earliest stages of Aquarius.
And gradually the Sun precesses, that's to say it goes backwards around the zodiac in a cycle that takes 25,000 canonically, 25,920 years to make a complete circle.
What this means is that it actually takes 72 years, precisely, for the Sun to precess one degree.
So this is nothing.
Who's going to be sitting there for 72 years watching the track of the sun in a cycle that takes 26,000 years to go around?
It's somehow or another deeply connected with the civilization of that time and with our civilization.
When you look at the numbers involved, this is another hours of conversation actually.
The 72 and the 73 are significant numbers in practically all of the developed numerologically based societies.
So, in Egypt, Seth, who's the bad guy, derivative probably Satan is derived from Seth.
He's the bad guy, but he's also a great god.
That is to say, the gods are not gods in any superstitious fashion.
They represent the embodiments of cosmic principles.
So, excuse me, set is he who fixes spirit and matter.
And the whole basis of any esoteric doctrine, including most of the religions that are around even today in their depraved forms, The objective of any esoteric discipline is to free ourselves individually and collectively from our imprisonment in matter.
This is the quest for immortality.
And so in some sense or another, That processional cycle is very important and the numbers are important in the myth, which again we don't have time for, but Osiris is the good king.
Actually, this is all very carefully expounded, very brilliantly in fact, in the Hamlet myth, which becomes Shakespeare's Hamlet, and then in the Lion King, in Disney's Lion King, the movie especially, which is really pretty brilliant.
Anyway, Set is the good king who is beloved by his people, and Set is his wicked brother, his evil brother, who is determined to unseat him and steal his sister wife Isis while he's at it.
Anyway, Set sets a trap for Osiris, and it's Set and his 72 followers.
So 72 is this number associated with time, and the 72 to 73 is a very significant Ratio, actually, which pervades the philosophies of, as I said, of all of the esoteric civilizations.
So all of this stuff, instead of being the kind of...
Ask a quackademic, the same guy you were talking about earlier who still thinks the six is weathered by sand.
Ask one of those what ancient myth is about.
They say, oh, well, it's just a fabrication written by primitive people who are trying to explain the mysteries of the universe.
It's the other way around.
The primitive people are the ones with the PhDs.
And back then, not only did they understand these scientific, these astronomical facts, but they...
They orchestrated their whole civilization around those facts, and the deeper you get into this, the more miraculous the extent of ancient knowledge becomes.
Now, what is the mainstream explanation when they talk about the prevalence of the number 72 and their understanding of the procession of the equinoxes?
Do they address it at all?
Like, how do they sort of explain how they knew about this 26,000-year cycle?
I've never really looked that deeply into it other than that there's a friend of mine who's worked with the proportions and the sophisticated proportions of the Parthenon and it shows actually that it's as minutely orchestrated as anything in Egypt, even though it's much later than Egypt.
Well, I believe that's true, except that I think it's pretty certain that it's not of Egyptian age, although if you're talking about gigantic paving stones at the bottom of it, I don't know.
But whenever you see those gigantic stones, that's a pretty good indication of an earlier period of construction.
As at Baalbek, they have these monolithic 1,200-ton blocks that they think the Romans put in there.
Indirect evidence, and when you put it all together, you get, there's enough of a picture there so that it overthrows the basis.
As I said, what's important about it is, in one sense, who cares?
In another sense, it overthrows The supposed scientific basis of the Church of Progress, that we're the most sophisticated people that ever were and we can do whatever we please with this once glorious planet of ours without worrying about it because we're the best and everyone before us was primitive.
Well, there's a lot of new evidence now since you started your work.
Particularly all that nuclear glass that they're finding that corresponds with meteor impacts throughout Europe and Asia and that that's somewhere around the end of the ice age really in the same sort of Time period when they do core samples and they find this nuclear glass.
It's all at around 10,000 plus years ago That kind of stuff really starts to indicate that we're looking at Possibly an event that might have shaped human history or a reset of a large percentage of the people on this planet where civilization in many areas was all but wiped out and then they had to rebuild again.
Yeah, this is, I mean, actually this is coming to the fore now.
There's a lot of evidence for these, I think it's the tektites they're called.
Shock thinks that they are the result of a gigantic CME, a coronal mass ejection, giant solar flares.
And there's a lot of evidence for this.
Actually, I don't know if we get into talking about it here.
I will at CPAC for sure.
Shock will be at CPAC. Anyway, the...
But it's unlikely that it's actually a nuclear blast because it would be inconceivable, well, at least by our standards, a man-made nuclear blast.
Although, when you go into the Hindu texts, and I think it's the Upanishads where they describe...
What sounds like, I mean it's described as a battle of the gods, but for all the world it does sound like a nuclear conflagration, a human-made nuclear conflagration.
I don't think anybody knows enough to say what it is other than that that story is in there.
In fact, because I'm a writer by trade, I'm very interested in the way that That language is used, and so myth is one of the principal misleading words that, if you look in the dictionary, the first meaning that it gives for myth is a lie.
You would talk about the myth busters, that myth is a lie, but the ancients didn't see myth as a lie.
What myth actually is, when you get into it fairly deeply, It is the interplay of cosmic principles Described as drama rather than in mathematics.
So once you get a good look at this, this is an extraordinary but opaque book called Hamlet's Mill by Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Deccant, who are historians of science at MIT, which is about as respectable as credentials can be.
So as soon as myth is understood as having both a rigorous scientific As well as philosophical and spiritual base, the whole understanding of myth turns around.
And you see, for example, in Shakespeare's Hamlet, which is based upon a Danish folk tale, Which then becomes, quite brilliantly actually, the Lion King in the Disney film.
You see how the myth, I mean in other words you could decode the Osiris Isis Horus myth as pure science and You might call it as spiritual or as sacred science, and at the same time it's a ripping good story when you put it that way, a story, because then everybody can understand it, even if they don't understand it.
Even if they can't articulate what they've understood, the power of the story soaks through.
So myth is actually, the more you know about it, my case is not that much, but at least it's better than nothing.
The more you know about it, the more amazing mythology becomes that they should have been able to put together.
These complex hierarchical Esoteric concepts in a way that resonates as a story.
Otherwise, insofar as, I mean, our own cosmology is next to impossible to understand unless you're a cosmologist and schooled in the abstract mathematics that make the thing work.
I mean, the mathematics is absolutely beyond me, but some of my astrophysicist friends can explain it to me in such a way that I understand.
So essentially what you're saying is that they didn't have the sort of scientific discipline that we have today.
They didn't understand a lot of the things that we know today as far as the way academics or scientists relay information about space or about cosmology.
So what they did is they combined theater and story with the actual facts That they knew so that was the way they would relay this stuff and that's the way that stuff would be passed on that information be passed on through these stories but in those stories was an actual history of the world itself as far as they knew.
Through that and through symbolism and this is an infinitely superior way of communicating knowledge because you don't have to be an expert It soaks into your bones in such a way that it directs personally and collectively people's behaviors.
And it's my firm conviction that this is why Egypt lasted as a coherent civilization even in its dynastic form for 3,500 years and our lunatic societies coming apart at the seams in front of our eyes at 300 years.
I wanted to talk to you about the written history of Egypt and the hieroglyphic history of the pharaohs.
Because I remember, I think it was from Magical Egypt 1, you were talking about the historical record, like what they have written down in the hieroglyphs about the pharaohs, that it goes back far beyond what we think of as the birth of Egypt, you know, with the construction, the Great Pyramid, I believe they put it, modern academics put it at 2500 BC, correct?
In a stone tablet called the Palermo stone, because it's now in Palermo, Italy, and in a very fragmentary papyrus called the Turin papyrus, which is now in Turin.
And both of these documents, one is a stone stela and the other is a papyrus, tell or recount Long periods when Egypt was ruled first by the Necheru, which means the gods themselves, which I take to mean fully realized divine human beings.
In other words, human beings that have attained, that have passed the test of the quest for immortality, who are in effect, they've outsmarted death, or they've outdeveloped death.
Because their works speak for themselves, as it were, and the level of the, now we're talking, going back even to dynastic Egypt, because the temples themselves and the level of art involved particularly in the sculpture is such that Standard,
I'd say genius is rare enough, but standard human genius doesn't seem to apply to these incredible constructions.
And the quackademics simply dismiss it out of hand as really very talented exponents of a barbaric and primitive concept.
I'm leading my trips there, which I do, as you know, a few times a year.
Next one coming up, by the way, anybody listening in?
What was it about Egypt in that time in particular that...
In your opinion, I mean obviously there's a lot of speculation going on here because there's so little evidence from 34,000 years ago, but what is it about that area that you think developed people at such an incredibly high level?
Because unless there's more evidence to be found, there doesn't seem to be any parallels anywhere else in the world.
Actually, there's a fairly simple explanation for that, for a change, because most of this stuff is so complicated.
But just to go back a bit to the rule by the Neceru, the gods themselves, and the names of those rulers are given in the length of time that they reigned.
And then there's another group of The line of time is incredible, right?
Well, this is where we're getting the 34,000, 36,000 BC from.
Because you add the times up, the Turin papyrus has a similar thing of the reign, rule of the Netzeru, and the rule that's called the Shem Suhor, the followers or the...
The followers are the companions of Horus.
And again, the names are given and the regnal years.
And when you add those all up together, you get around 34, 36,000 BC. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but weren't some of the pharaohs, didn't they live hundreds of years?
I get those figures from Schwaller de Lubix, the great genius with the unpronounceable name, who put together the whole interpretation of Symbolist Egypt, from which my work is derived.
I mean, I regard myself as Schwaller's Boswell, making his...
But when you're talking about 34,000 years, I mean the average person today lives to be about 80 years, you're talking about an incredible number of pharaohs then.
From the one long chapter he wrote called the chronology, choreography he called it, not the word for it, but the chronology of Egypt where he's looking to back up.
From a scholarly point of view, from the scholarly argument, that the Egyptians knew what they were talking about when they were assigning these long reins, that these are not fictitious.
This is not made-up history in order to fool the people who couldn't read the hieroglyphs anyway.
Only the scribes could read the hieroglyphs.
So...
Schwaller wrote this very long and thoughtful and scholarly lecture.
Sorry, not lecture, but chapter.
And then at the very end of it, this throwaway line, and as of course the Great Sphinx of Giza has been weathered, shows unmistakable signs of aquatic erosion.
And that was my little epiphany, because I picked up on that and said, wow, the rest of this isn't science, but that's geology.
If the geologists will agree that this cannot have taken place since 2500 BC when the Sphinx is supposedly built, this will upset the whole paradigm.
All of civilization will have to be, our view of civilization will have to be rethought.
And that's began this long, long, now four-decade-long quest to find somebody to back it up.
And we're now, my sense of it is, closing in on beating down the opposition.
And this will be another thing, actually, in fact, I'll probably be talking about at CPAC, but probably it would...
A little bit more politely than I feel it's necessary to talk about here.
I'm here with you.
And that is riffing on a line that probably everybody who tunes into this is familiar with.
Victor Hugo, the French poet, novelist, dramatist of the 19th century.
Actually, France's most popular poet of the 19th century was Victor Hugo.
And it was Victor Hugo who wrote the famous line, there's one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come.
You know that line, right?
Everybody knows that line.
But what Victor Hugo didn't think of, or if he did, he didn't express it, Was that the second strongest thing in the world is an idea whose time has not yet gone.
And since it is a matter of record that all of the armies in the world, be they military, economic, financial, cultural, agricultural even, wherever there's a paradigm, there's an army.
Devoted to protecting that paradigm.
And this is where we stand now, that the idea whose time has come only comes when the second strongest, the armies of the second strongest thing in the world are beaten down, are beaten into the ground, and somebody breaches the portcullis to the ivory tower where all of these guys live.
And this is of particular interest to me because I am a scholar by default, but a satirist by nature.
And really, my whole adult life has been devoted to proving a vision that I had at the age of 13 or so, that I was born into a lunatic asylum.
And at the age of about 19, it was a very uncomfortable place to live where everybody called it progress, and I thought it was crazy.
And at age about 19 or so, I knew what I wanted to do, which was to be the little boy who said the emperor has no clothes and to prove to everybody's satisfaction that indeed the emperor has no clothes and it's a lunatic asylum.
The end result took me a couple of decades to realize that.
It was that in real life what happens is that, no, the people all don't say, whoa, look, the emperor has no clothes and everybody lives happily ever after.
What happens is that the disgraced emperor goes back to his palace and regroups the empire and at the end all of the forces of empire conspire to prove to everyone that the emperor's clothes are real but it's the child who's imaginary.
We were talking about this before the podcast, and this is a really fascinating aspect of this discussion.
When I first became aware of your work was that Charlton Heston narrated documentary about the aging of the Sphinx, the mystery of the Sphinx, which I believe was on NBC. What I thought was shocking Was when Dr. Shock was speaking to that Egyptologist who was saying, what evidence is there of a culture that existed 7,000 years before ancient Egypt?
There's no evidence.
He's like, there is no, and he was laughing.
And the way he was doing it, there was so much ego involved in what he was saying.
I was like, wow, this is not how I would picture an Egyptologist laughing.
Well, that got me curious.
I started getting into it.
Why would anybody think like that?
And then I realized, oh, these guys write books and they teach lectures and they teach classes based on this information that they're teaching.
And now this information has been shown to be not true anymore.
When Dr. Schock was showing this water erosion and he was saying that, this was all before the discovery of Gobekli Tepe.
And once they discovered Gobekli Tepe, now they know that there is a sophisticated structure capable of massive stone circles that was 12,000 years ago, at least, when it was intentionally buried.
So it could have easily been several thousand years old then.
We don't know.
But we know at least 12,000 years ago someone was capable of incredible design and incredible stone structures with three-dimensional animals carved into these stone structures, which is very sophisticated.
I haven't actually spoken to him, and I don't know if anyone has.
I see him in Egypt every once in a while.
I don't know if anyone has.
And I ran into him fairly recently.
He just said hello.
And I don't think I'd really necessarily want to bring it up with him Off the record, I'd rather have him with the cameras on us and just see what happens.
But he seems to be just clinging to this idea because he can.
Like, mainstream academia hasn't accepted this predating of the Sphinx, or also the difference in the structures, like the difference in the construction methods that were used.
One of the more fascinating things that you sort of highlighted in your ancient Egypt series, Magical Egypt, which is fantastic, and I highly recommend it to anybody who is even remotely curious of this, you will be sucked in in an incredible way.
It got to the point where my wife was walking by the TV, she's like, Jesus Christ, you watching Egypt again?
And I'm like, It's like six discs.
It goes on forever.
Eight.
So there's a clear distinction between the older methods of construction and the newer methods.
They use different methods.
And it's really obvious to someone like me, I don't know anything about it, but you could see the difference.
And also that these older structures were below the newer structures.
It is, but as long as they can get away with it, they will continue to get away with it.
As I said, the second strongest thing in the world is the idea whose time has not yet gone, and anybody who doesn't Let's say among myself and my colleagues who are all in this, let's say, the quest to prove, to demonstrate that the advanced civilization existed in the very distant past, which is In my case, in other cases, not necessarily.
But in mine, it's because that opens the door in and of itself.
It doesn't affect the price of eggs.
But on a much more profound philosophical level, once it's understood that that...
Understanding that civilization goes back much, much further leads to the understanding and the acceptance that our role, our destiny as human beings is to achieve immortality.
This is as simple as that.
Otherwise, it's just a head trip.
In other words, if it's not understood that we have a role to play in this grand cosmic scheme, there's no civilization possible.
That we arrive at a level of consciousness that is not subject to the death of the physical body.
All of religion is based upon that.
All of the stories of the saints and the rishis and the masters and so on is based upon, all of it, is based upon their experiences that have led them to this understanding.
If it's just a head trip, it's no good.
It has to be part of your very being.
The purpose of sacred art and of sacred music, when it works, is to communicate Even if only momentarily and fragmentarily, this understanding that there's something else,
and speaking from my own personal experiences, I've never gone through a full-blown mystical experience, but I've had lots of these moments, particularly in Egypt, in a long study, and these moments in Egypt where there's this sudden realization that The world as it manifests to our faculties,
our normal faculties, is not the only world there is.
There's something else beyond that which was understood a lot better in those days than now.
And actually, funnily enough, I forgot to mention this, but I don't know if you know this.
I've spent the last couple of years sort of sidetracked from my regular work Working on a book written by a friend of mine, a good friend, who was not a writer, so I helped him with the editing and contributed to it.
He was a Christian pastor, a rare guy who actually lived what he preached, named David Solomon.
And he had collected all of this material, a huge amount of material, That he was trying to systematize because this is now, it's certainly not a common experience, but there are 5,000 verifiable accounts of people who have been clinically dead and who have been revived, usually through modern methods, because now one of the reasons why it's now so common and before it was reserved for the saints, the great saints and the mystics.
That modern medicine has improved to such an extent that if you get to these people quickly enough, any number of people who are clinically dead for X number of minutes, you know, not two days, but minutes, sometimes more extended period than that,
come back with these tales of This realm beyond that of the senses, the realm of higher consciousness, basically what it is, what they've experienced is grace.
In Christian terms, it's grace.
It's a moment, and they come back transformed.
They come back convinced that everything that they were doing before is either nonsense or unimportant, and they often come back with a mission, even though they don't have the schooling, let's say.
They don't understand philosophically Or spiritually, what they've experienced, they know what they've experienced, and they laugh at the debunkers who are saying it's all hallucination of the brain, dying brain.
This is all garbage.
What they've experienced, they've experienced, and David put these together in a systematic fashion.
And then, as he was just, he collected all this material, and I was telling him that he's a good friend.
He financed our trip to Gobekli Tepe five, six years ago.
And he started losing his balance and he was a Tai Chi guy who knows a lot about balance.
Also a bonsai master and a Christian pastor.
Unusual guy.
And he started losing his balance and it wasn't going away and the doctors finally figured out what was wrong with him.
And he had a glioma, a glioblastoma of something, I forget.
Do you know what a glioma is?
It's a form of brain cancer that is 100% fatal.
The only thing you have is that you can't determine the timeline.
And they gave him something like 10 months to 12 months to live.
He actually lived three years.
And at that point he had all of this material and I told him when he was telling me about it, I said, I should write a book.
This is really good stuff.
The way you're doing it is not like anybody else has ever done.
And he said, no, no, I'm not a writer.
I'm just doing this.
And then when he found out the diagnosis, then he had a mission, which was to get the book out.
But he wasn't a writer, so he drafted me in to put the words in right order.
And he lasted just long enough to get the book finished and get it published.
And it's really...
If this went viral, it could make a difference.
He was very good at titles, David.
It's called The Dead Saints Chronicles, subtitled A Zen Journey Through the Christian Afterlife.
And it really is an absolutely extraordinary book.
And it becomes quite clear when you go through this that what people have experienced is a state of grace that's not all the same.
I mean, some people it's more profound and some people less so.
But all of these people are unprepared for what they've experienced and all of them come back Transformed, and of course the quackademics, this is one of the ways they protect themselves.
Peer review is one way, and the other is their insistence.
Who the hell gave them the right to make the rules from science that apply to science?
Are they scientists so that gives them the right to make the rules?
No, the rules are the rules.
And one of the chief ways in which they protect themselves Is to insist that anecdotal evidence, personal experience, doesn't count.
I don't know about you, but I wouldn't buy a cookbook by someone who's never fried an egg.
So these are guys who've never fried a spiritual egg, and these 5,000 accounts are people who've actually been there to this superior realm and come back To talk about it.
What he has created by his book, DMT, the spirit molecule, they did these clinical tests giving people DMT in a clinical setting at the University of New Mexico.
And what they found was these people achieved this incredible state of understanding, a more relaxed vision of the future.
They're more confident.
This is also mirrored by some of the John Hopkins tests that they've done with people with psilocybin, where people have They have just a much better outlook about the future.
They don't think that this is it, and that whatever happens to them when they're having these trips, and the way Strassman did it is much more intense than most people do it because they did intravenous doses, which last longer.
A typical DMT trip lasts only about 15 minutes, unless you just jump right back in, which is what I usually do.
But he gave these people intravenous doses which take them just very deep for more than a half an hour, and they all have very similar stories, and similar stories to people that have had near-death experiences.
I've had friends that have had near-death experiences, and when they talk about it, it's very similar to the way I've talked to other people that have had DMT trips, where they are in the presence of this divine greatness, this something.
But that is also a chemical that's produced by the brain.
Now, this is where neuroscientists step in and say, well, your experience is experiencing as some sort of a hallucination.
And they might be right, but it also might be some sort of a chemical gateway that your brain produces.
We really don't know.
And that might be the way the soul, quote-unquote, air quotes, whatever, but for lack of a better word, transitions to this next stage of life.
Now...
When the anecdotal evidence that you're talking about is measured up, what's interesting about it is similar accounts over and over and over and over again.
The people that can remember things, they remember this incredibly divine experience.
But, you know, the question becomes, is that experience, and this is something that I've been bouncing around in my head a lot lately, is that experience a hallucination?
Or is that experience an actual real experience in a divine presence?
And does it matter?
Because...
Is it the same thing no matter what?
If you just think you're experiencing God and divine greatness because you're creating it in your mind versus actually experiencing God and divine greatness, isn't the experience the exact same thing?
And is our mind locked into the idea of a physical thing like this laptop?
I can pick it up.
I can drop it.
I know it has weight.
I can touch it.
I can measure the width.
We can't do that with psychedelic experiences.
We can't do that with transcendent experiences.
We can't do that with mystical experiences.
You can't measure them.
You can't put them in a bag and take it home with you.
But it might be the same thing.
It's entirely possible that this is what many, many ancient cultures experienced as well.
They found the use of psychedelics very early on.
And this is also something that you documented in your work.
And they documented it very clearly in a lot of the Egyptian work.
But with the NDE experiences, I mean, absolutely...
Joe Sixpack, everybody, ordinary people, many of them, some of them even atheists, go through this and come back, literally transform their whole lives.
It changed by it.
With the drugs...
It really is.
For the most part, it's a trip.
It doesn't have this, let's say, this lasting transformational value.
The John Hopkins study showed that a lot of people, decades later, had a vastly improved quality of life, different outlook on things, and especially when you're dealing with terminally ill patients.
But the hallucination, this is another scam by the so-called rationalists, who in fact are not, they're this idea that it's a hallucination.
And what's a hallucination?
And what's its evolutionary value?
Why should there be a, where's the hallucination gene?
This is all bullshit, actually, and what it actually is.
It's not based upon reason as they promote themselves.
What it is actually is the rationalization of their own inner emptiness.
They can't handle the fact that there might be something else, and in fact their whole intellectual lives are consecrated to the To proving that life is indeed as meaningless as their own.
Or is it they're just trying to look at some sort of, give it a critical, objective view and go over all the possibilities?
We know that drugs do affect the mind in very strange ways.
We know some people take drugs and it completely distorts their reality.
Alcohol is a perfect example of that, right?
It's a great drug for distorting reality.
You can watch someone get drunk and have a very bizarre version of what they're looking at.
There's many drugs that change the way people look at things, like physically, the way they see things.
They will hallucinate.
So we know that drugs have an effect on people.
It seems rational, though, that a scientist would look at those things and try to find some sort of a scientific perspective.
Explanation for the chemical process that's going on in the mind, the way it's affecting the visual cortex, and the things that the person is quote-unquote hallucinating.
Underlying that contention, which is not science in and of itself.
That is just a hypothesis.
That is speculation.
And I said what it's based upon is protecting their own vision of the world Which is that the universe is an accident and anything that is mystical or so-called spiritual is hallucinatory and they have the answers.
And these people, as far as I'm concerned, are more dangerous even than politicians.
They are, put it this way, the Church of Progress is the religion of the emotionally defective, the spiritually dyslexic, and the philosophically depraved.
But to put it into other terms, you actually, martial arts master I studied with briefly, used to say in his Japanese accent, if you want happiness in this crazy world, you do not talk about moonbeams to the blind or moonbeams to the blind, music to the deaf, and you absolutely do not talk about sex to eunuchs.
They just get angry.
And this is what you're dealing with when you're dealing with these intellectually based scientists.
These are spiritual, emotional, and philosophical eunuchs.
And it's no surprise when they behave the way they do who's surprised when the eunuchs snigger behind the Sultan's back and deride his passions.
The problem is that with our Church of Progress, When the eunuchs take over the palace and call their terrible disability reason, then the empire's cooked.
Now, let's go back to this idea that human beings need to fulfill immortality, or that there is our ultimate destiny to fulfill immortality.
What do you mean by that exactly?
Because if there is an afterlife, right, if we do die and then we go to this other place that people are seeing in these near-death experiences, why do we have to do anything?
Why can't we just sit around and wait for our physical meat body to stop working and then transcend?
And if you don't do it, you don't, unless you go through an NDE, then you come back and you start doing it in one way or another.
But it's...
My own personal conviction is that unless enough people are doing this and getting somewhere with it, it's not as though everyone's going to become enlightened.
They probably aren't.
Again, going deep into the whole theories of reincarnation and return and so on, which is part of Egypt and part of all of the Eastern cultures of reincarnation.
No, chances are you don't make it in one lifetime.
But these things...
Let's say there's a report card.
There's a divine report card where these things are measured.
Jesus says insofar as the Bible is a scholarly morass and I usually try to avoid using it as evidence for things because it's so open to interpretation and it's so convoluted to begin with and who knows what's original to it and what isn't.
But, you know, many are called, few are chosen.
But those who are called, who do their work or who try to do their work, reap the benefit of that on an internal level that the quackademics can't measure and don't want to measure and don't believe can be measured.
But somebody with a presence is very different from somebody without any presence at all.
Yeah, I want to bring you back around, though, because I'm still confused.
What do you mean by it's our goal to achieve immortality?
Like, what do you mean by that?
Do you mean, like, the physical body no longer dies?
And do you believe that, like, whatever I read, I do not remember what I read, but what I read about the earliest depictions of the pharaohs, That was that they lived an extraordinary length of time similar to like Noah.
Like Noah in the Bible was 600 years old when he built the ark, correct?
That's one of the theories of all of those different strange numbers in the Bible, and I don't know any better than anyone else.
As far as I know, the pharaohs lived ordinary lifespans, and of course there's no evidence.
Physical evidence of the pharaohs, the Necheru, when the divine rulers ruled, and Shem Suhor, when they ruled.
There's none of that.
And we simply don't know.
The Tibetans have accounts, if you want to believe the Tibetans, and I tend to, I don't see why they should lie, of great lamas who live several hundred years and go when they choose to.
I don't know.
Simple as that.
And actually...
You might say it's no more than a kind of mental...
It's an interesting hypothesis like Bigfoot, but who cares?
The only thing that actually counts is the inner work.
And if you're doing it, you're doing it.
And if you're not doing it, and you don't measure yourself either, as soon as you're looking for results, that's already a way of not getting them.
It's a very delicate...
And yet profound subject.
And if you go to a good Zen master, this stuff is still around.
There are masters.
My own focus, as you probably know, or maybe you don't, is the Gurdjieff work.
Because when I came across Gurdjieff, an extraordinary character, he was the first person I'd ever encountered posthumously.
He died in 49, and I found out about his work in the 60s.
Who was as contemptuous of Western civilization as I was.
The difference was that he knew how to live in it, and I didn't.
And at a certain point, I figured out, particularly what you're talking about before, that my life in the trenches, good subtitle for something.
No, I'm talking about a level of consciousness That transcends death.
The body dies, and that understanding is where you are.
I mean, the drugs do that.
You have these moments that with the body, you come back because you get out of the trip.
Let's say it's an eternal trip, and the ancients talk about that all the time, even in their mythology, which is always taken as fanciful, let's say, in the pyramid texts.
The script reads that when the Pharaoh dies, and the Pharaoh being, let's say, the embodiment of the realized and enlightened soul, when the Pharaoh dies, his ba unites with his ka, his spirit unites with his essence, becomes a star, A star.
And traveled with Ra across the sky in his boat of millions of years.
This is, and in fact, I've often wondered if the Egyptians actually knew what he was being, what they were talking about, and the stars themselves are the realizations of enlightened souls.
It's as good as any other explanation that they're simply balls of gas.
How did that get there?
That automatically, at some point, accidentally coalesce into galaxies and nebulae and universes, and the whole thing goes on meaninglessly.
Like, we are made of stardust, which is just incredible to think that the seeds of human life and all carbon life, in fact, come from a star exploding.
Like, wow.
Like, everything that you see, like the sun, the sun is a seed for future life.
Well, you've answered your own question, as it were.
That...
That understanding, and I wouldn't even call it a philosophy, it's an understanding by people who understand more than we do, certainly more than I do.
Well, no, actually, with the NDEs, no, what happens?
Not really, no.
They've had their experience, they've had their X number of minutes of grace, and come back, and come back, Transformed and realize that they have to live their lives differently.
They don't even talk about, you know, about the future or anything like that.
I mean, this is obviously a very big thing that not many people evidently achieve.
But the effort, like everything else, the effort is the effort, and it's on the scorecard.
It's not so different from everybody who picks up a violin isn't going to end up in Carnegie Hall, and everyone who picks up a baseball bat isn't going to play center field for the Mets or any other team.
But it's the effort that counts.
And it's a certain kind of directed and intelligent effort that is painful in its own way, but carries its own reward.
And it manifests in a kind of presence.
And just in our daily lives, even with people who are not consciously doing it, but they're doing it They have a different level of presence and you notice it when you meet them.
Now, what is it that you think these ancient Egyptians, when you talk about the earliest Egyptians that you believe had achieved this incredible state of mind or consciousness, what is it that you think that they did to achieve that?
Like, why were they so advanced?
Why were they so beyond what we think of when we think of even the possibility of a human being living 34 plus thousand years ago?
All we can see is the manifestation of what they did.
Actually, when you really understand Egypt, even to the extent that I do, you regard it as miraculous.
You don't see how beings ostensibly like ourselves should even imagine such things, much less be able to do it.
And this is what—I'll pitch my trip— I often start a lecture off by saying that Egypt is like sex.
That gets everybody's attention.
Why is it like sex?
Because you can read books about it, and that's informational of sorts.
You can look at pictures.
That's a different kind or a different level of information.
But until you've experienced it, you do not and cannot understand it.
And Egypt is like that.
That Magical Egypt series is as close as anyone has ever come to communicating the wonder and the magic that is Egypt as anyone has ever...
It's way head and shoulders above what anybody else has done, and that's my genius partner Chance is doing in its entirety.
It's, you know, simplest ideas, and I play a big role in it, but it's really Chance's baby.
And the, but at the visit to Egypt, at the end of a couple of weeks there, I can talk from Adel Doomsday, which I'm about in the process of doing.
Nothing, nothing that I say can come, can come even remotely close to what it's like to be two weeks in Egypt, dead, dead, dead, dead.
day after day after day after day, in the presence of sacred art of this Of this quality.
And there's nowhere else on the left.
I mean, I'm sure that China and India and all of these places had not pyramids and not that kind of structure.
The nature of Egypt, it's a kind of freak of nature, as it were.
All desert except this little strip of Nile.
And then the delta that until recently was impenetrable swamp.
So it's practically unattackable.
And the food denial floods, and the food jumps out of the ground, and with a series of genuinely enlightened rulers, or at least pretty close to enlightened rulers, ruling them, it all lasts for 3,500 years, And how did they live?
You see, everything that they did.
In fact, until quite recently, there were no such things as jobs.
There were trades and crafts and skills and arts.
And everybody, I mean, yes, in Europe, the combination of a repressive church and an oppressive nobility kept everybody...
You know, immersed in serfdom in one way or another.
But what people actually did with their lives was in some sense or another transformational.
All of it.
It takes a lot of smarts to be a good peasant.
All of these things that people used to do as a matter of course.
And in Egypt, you see it.
You see it carved into the walls, and everyone thinks these are the scenes of daily life.
Well, they are scenes of daily life, but they're decodable as transformational activities.
So anything that you do, and boy, you're doing martial arts.
This is a highly developed skill.
You are...
Somebody that you wouldn't be if you didn't have that skill.
If you were doing a podcast and what you did for a living was flipping burgers at McDonald's, you wouldn't be Joe Rogan.
You've been doing your homework without maybe even thinking that it was homework.
Because anything that you're involved in that...
That you go at with a quest for perfection of whatever it is, has this transformational value.
And when you know it intellectually, when you can articulate it, it implements actually the activity itself.
So it's possible even to do that.
You could be an enlightened burger flipper.
And the Sufis are very good at it.
In life, but not of it.
In other words, you can practice waking up, as it were, in the midst of the most mundane thing.
You could be an enlightened garbage collector.
As long as you knew what you were doing.
It's a totally different thing.
I would imagine I'm not a garbage collector.
It's a totally different thing to collect the garbage consciously than it is to just do it resentfully because that's the only job that you can get.
So when we're talking, it's not as though this is...
Anything actually new, it's the oldest idea that ever was, and it's something that people have been doing for thousands and thousands of years.
That said, going into the whole thing of precession and the ages, particularly as expressed Plato, they have a golden age and a silver age, a bronze age and an iron age.
The Hindus do it in rather more sophisticated fashion.
I forget exactly the names are on the tip of my tongue.
Of those ages, but if they are, let's say, analogous to our seasons, particularly if you live where I do and not in California where it's all one season, but the seasons...
If they're compared to the seasons, it's a very different thing to grow roses in June than it is in January.
It's the same effort when you're talking about people, you know, waking up and all of the rest of it.
This is a dark age.
I mean, this is the Kali Yuga as far as I'm concerned.
To do anything Of a spiritual nature now with all of these forces, with all of these forces lined up against you, not consciously of course, but unconsciously, it's an incredibly difficult thing to actually practice a genuine A genuine spiritual doctrine.
First of all, you have to get interested in it, and that's only a small chunk of us, and then you have to try to do it.
That's right, the focus and the will and all the rest of the things.
So growing roses in January takes a lot more effort to get to the same rose than it takes In June, when they're jumping out of the ground.
So my guess is, and it's only a guess, it's speculation, that in these higher levels of these higher periods of, you know, gold and silver, bronze, and so on, it's just much easier.
It is much easier for people to recognize what's Well,
if you look at the influence that Egypt had clearly on Greece and clearly on a lot of other civilizations where people literally came to Egypt to learn, If Egypt wasn't there, what would civilization be like?
I mean, it's such a unique place in that there's really nowhere that you can compare that has the level of sophistication as far as the structures in the ancient world.
I mean, it's almost like what they created was undeniable.
Like, I think Giza, the Great Pyramid of Giza has 2,300,000 stones that weigh between 2 and 80 tons.
Some, a bit, that actually from Tibet, there's actually a funny little book.
I've done some lectures out at, what is it called, in Joshua Tree.
You know about that?
It's a contact in the desert.
They're mostly interested in the UFO phenomenon and stuff like that.
But the place itself, Joshua Retreat Center, is founded by a very interesting guy who is sort of the Tibetan Krishnamurti.
In other words, it's an interesting little book he wrote, terribly written, but his studies in Tibet.
And at the end of his little book, he's talking about, he's studying with the lamas, he describes certain of the Certain of the things he has seen them do.
And I see no particular reason to dismiss what he says.
He's talking from experience and has the ring of veracity to it.
He talks about going into an underground chamber that has no lights or electricity or anything like that.
That's all lit up.
When you go to Egypt, you have these deep, deep shaft tombs that go down and around and all like this.
And people say, well, how did they light the thing up?
It can't have had torches.
It would have used up all of the oxygen and it would have smoked up the ceilings and all the rest of it.
And people say, well, mirrors.
No, mirrors will do...
And you need silvered mirrors for it to go around corners.
There are the gypsy caves in Seville that are four or five rooms and that are lit with mirrors from on top.
But no, somehow, and I used to joke and say, well, you know, they had an inner light.
I'm joking.
But maybe that's what it was.
They produced this, and he talks about other lamas he's witnessed doing incredible feats that you couldn't do, you know, that you just couldn't do in your ordinary state.
Probably you as a martial artist have had moments or witnessed people who can do things that are, for anybody else, impossible.
Yeah, but it's a really important point, what you're saying, about the construction methods that they used where they did have these long tunnels and these passages and these places, but...
Somehow or another, they managed to navigate these things without leaving any marks or soot from torches, which are everywhere else where people used candles or anywhere else.
Even the Sistine Chapel, the entire ceiling is covered with soot.
They had to clean it to prepare it so people could see it again.
But that's really fascinating to think that they had some other method of illumination that we just haven't discovered yet.
When I look at the Great Pyramid or I look at the structures I've seen online or in your videos or things along those lines, what's shocking to me is how, and this is going to be a weird thing to say, how Egyptian it looks and how Egypt stands alone in this very distinctive way.
In that the construction methods, just the intricacy of the building, and these pyramids.
I mean, people talk about the Mayan pyramids, and I've been to Chichen Itza, and it's an amazing place, and it's really beautiful and crazy to look at, but it pales in comparison to the structures of Egypt.
Well, as I said, because it was in a kind of a blessed One, it had a philosophy, you know, it had a spiritual philosophy underpinning it that had the...
that had, you might say, that had the...
that united the people in their entirety.
It doesn't mean that there weren't, you know, criminals and murderers and stuff like that, but basically the people were united in their...
In their faith, enlightened in their belief.
Herodotus, when Egypt was 6th century BC, Herodotus and Egypt is already in steep decline, says the Egyptians are the happiest, healthiest, and most religious of people.
And it wasn't the Egyptian Chamber of Commerce that was telling him to say that.
He was a patriotic Greek.
But it was like that, and it was a combination of the philosophy wedded to in a society that was protected on all four sides and almost impregnable.
It was conquered a couple of times over the course of 3,000 years for a relatively brief period of time.
And the food jumped out of the ground.
The Nile flooded and took practically no work, and that made a quite substantial population It gave them months of free time every year.
Whatever period Egypt is assigned to is on a downhill slope.
It just plain was on a downhill slope.
And you can watch it transform in front of your eyes.
It disintegrates as a coherent religion, rises In another form that we call Christianity, actually, and you can see it happening in front of your nose with Coptic Christianity arising.
All the rest of the stuff gets completely decadent under the Romans.
I mean Rome, what's his name?
Gibbon, Edward Gibbon, in Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire talks about the grandeur The glory of Greece, which is absolute nonsense, or near total nonsense, and the grandeur of Rome.
Yeah, they were building coliseums in order to torture, in order to let gladiators kill each other, and they built good roads.
But Rome was a three-ring bureaucracy, actually, and that's the beginning of the end.
In Europe, anyway, it's very traceable.
The Asian countries less so, but they too have high civilizations that decline, and in Europe you see kind of a turnaround in the Renaissance, very impossible to actually date, and then you have it leading in a sort of In a very one-sided development in which technology advances by leaps and bounds and everything else is arguably a lot worse
than it was a couple of hundred years ago.
From every spiritual, psychological point of view, we're a lot worse off than, let's say, the colonial Americans.
But the depictions of the colonial Americans by the ancient people, when you, who was it that described the atrocities that Columbus and his crew had done?
No, but I'm talking about they certainly didn't have the internet and lots of other goodies they didn't have.
No, but there was a certain...
Let's say, about the populace in general in America, a certain gravitas about them.
There's a certain presence that is of our great-great-grandfathers.
Well, not mine, because they were in Hungary at that time, my great-great-grandfather.
But there's a certain Sort of like Emerson self-reliance.
I mean, this is a piece of it.
Meanwhile, of course, they weapon all the slaves in the South and they're murdering all the Indians and the billionaires, as is their fashion, are beating up on their Irish immigrant workers because why have slaves when they can mistreat their workers and build all of their railroads across the country.
But nevertheless, there's a sense of Gravitas is almost the only word I can think of because it's not as though it's intellectually advanced or anything like that.
But there's a certain seeming solidity to 19th century America than there is now in this crazy chaos that we live in.
I think there's an awakening going on right now with human beings that's unprecedented.
And I think it's because of the internet.
I think because of the fact that we're combining our thoughts in some sort of a strange way and sharing ideas and information in a way that no one's ever been able to do before.
I don't think people have ever been this aware of how crazy things are.
But at the same time, look at the lunacy of last night's presidential debate.
You realize, I guess we really haven't...
I mean, we might be aware of things, but actual progress is not really being made.
I have low expectations, so it's TV. It's entertainment, and the people who are putting it together don't know what they're doing, except they see that it works and they want to make money.
No, look, Our Mystery of the Sphinx, which was at that time one of the most watched TV documentaries of all time, and it really had a massive audience and people who saw it Remember it, I mean, even to this day.
And you look at it and you go, when you're inside of it and you realize the insane magnitude of the construction, the fact that it took hundreds of years to complete and they did it all without saws, without power tools, rather.
They did it all without any modern equipment.
And it's unbelievably beautiful.
Incredible work of art.
And it pales in comparison to what they did in Egypt.
My now deceased friend Peter Tompkins on the magic of the obelisks where he's talking about, you know, ripping them out of context and bringing them to Rome and New York and England.
And it was interesting because they were brought over in the 19th century and it's already, you know, technology is pretty advanced.
I mean, you have huge cranes and all the rest of it and it strained the Victorian technology to the utmost to get these things over.
And then you realize that the Egyptians did it With none of those tools.
They somehow got them ripped out of the bedrock, brought down the river, taken offloaded from the rafts or boats or whatever, which is a big job, transported across the ground.
That's doable.
Erected in place precisely to the millimeter on the base.
That's, I think, reasonably well established, but I forget exactly how it was on how they leveled, for example, the base of the pyramid to a millimeter or something like that.
I mean, everything that you look at in Egypt when you go there, the deeper you look, the more mysterious it becomes, and you marvel at it.
I think you're talking about the ones, the so-called relieving chambers, which are really resonating chambers.
Resonating chambers.
Yeah, that's another thing.
Yeah, they don't relieve anything.
Architecturally, completely unnecessary to relieve the stresses from above.
Directly below the king's chamber is the so-called queen's chamber, which doesn't have that at all.
It has a simple gabled roof, and that protects it from anything that it needs.
The other chambers, when you're in the king's chamber...
It's like being, it's an echo chamber.
You can't, it's really a miraculous place, and of course everything is precision cut and all of that, but it doesn't look that fantastic.
It's the levels above that are the most amazing things, because these are the 70-ton blocks of stone, I think that's what you're talking about.
How they got those into place, no one knows, but they're responsible for the resonance of that particular chamber, and it's my belief that resonance plays Even not necessarily resonance with the human voice,
but when you're in there, I forget the acoustic term, feedback or whatever, that you can't, for example, if we're in the King's Chamber and we go, we rent the pyramid for a couple of hours for a meditation session on my trips, and when you're in there, you can't have a conversation the way we're having it now.
You have to talk Like this, otherwise the reverberation is such that it scrambles your voice.
This can only be deliberate, and you can hear from the King's Chamber, if you do set up and you do a chant in the King's Chamber, if you go all the way down the Grand Gallery, And then there's a place below where you have to make a turn, and then there's a descending passage that goes as deep below the ground as the pyramid, as the king's chamber is above the ground.
Yeah, but you shouldn't be able to hear it at all because the sound has to go down and then turn around and then go down the other shaft.
By the way, I should say, because people are always asking me now, it's a function of age, how long are you going to keep doing these trips?
Yeah.
And...
I say, well, you know, unless and until I can't get up and down the King's Chamber, up to the King's Chamber, I'll be doing trips unless some media thing takes over.
But, as they say in Texas, if you can do it, it ain't bragging.
That's a good line.
So, I was in Egypt recently on a research recce trip, but that may lead to something and I may not.
Well, I was hoping when I had this idea to do my own trips, I thought, oh, finally, I'll make a living out of this stuff.
But what happened was that no sooner had my guidebook come out.
You probably don't have a copy of that.
And it's out of print now, but I have copies.
That back in 85, the first of the terrorist things happened and these guys hijacked the cruise ship off Alexandria and pushed this poor old guy in a wheelchair over the side of the cruise ship and he drowned.
And my book had just come out and instantly the tourist trade was killed, talking about people being afraid for a whole year it took for it to develop.
And it did develop again, but the book had disappeared from the shelves by that time.
Anyway, still available, of course.
But, wait, I lost my thread.
With the trips, like, what did you say?
With Egypt?
Oh, someone doing it.
My plan was I wanted to train a number of people up who are familiar, you know, steeped in symbolist Egypt to spread the word, as it were.
And while I was at it, get a commission from the trips to, you know, provide some useful wolf repellent.
You want to go to the geology of the Sphinx, the water weathering.
And then other slides related to that, the gigantic blocks, paving blocks, particularly around the Second Pyramid.
And yeah, mostly around the Second Pyramid.
And then, I mean all of that stuff relates to the geological evidence.
Then I wanted to get into, I didn't want to touch the symbolist, the quest for immortality, because that's a whole big subsequent thing.
I did want to get into, and we didn't even talk about it, yeah, the map of Dhamfakistan, and what I call the, and I've got a great graphic for it actually, everybody you know certainly, and everybody probably most of your audience will know, About the four horsemen of the apocalypse, right?
From Revelation, who are actually an interesting study in its own right.
The four horsemen are war, War, famine, pestilence, and death.
And what's interesting about the Four Horsemen is that only war is really under human control, at least in theory.
Famine, pestilence, plague, as it were, and death comes to us all.
It's a peculiar choice, actually, for the Four Horsemen.
But I invented the five cowboys of Apocalypse 2.0.
And they are capitalism, patriotism, democracy, technology, and entertainment.
Capitalism is based upon everything for me, nothing for you.
Patriotism is based upon everything for us, nothing for them.
The bumper sticker says, God bless America.
The hidden sticky side says, and fuck everyone else.
That's patriotism.
Democracy is that, the idea is that the dishwashers elect the chef and tell them what to do.
I don't know about you, I don't eat in a restaurant where the dishwashers elect the chef and tell them what to do.
It's flawed, it's hopelessly flawed to begin with, which Plato recognized perfectly.
Churchill said, democracy looks like the worst of all possible political systems until you look at all the others.
At the same time, this is fun and it's not necessarily untrue.
At the same time, he also said, contradicting himself, the best argument against democracy is ten minutes of conversation with an average voter.
How about you?
I don't want my leaders elected numerically by the average voter.
Actually, if they had a test, which is probably next to impossible to even conceive, if voting were a privilege, I mean, when the country started off, it was a privilege, but you had to be a white male who owned property, which is not as...
Elitist as it actually looks now because in those days They were the only ones who were substantial enough and probably had some sort of an education.
It doesn't mean necessarily that they understand the principles.
And they, you know, they were, you might say, the solid citizens who at least could read.
I mean, nobody else could read except people with an education of some sort.
So that was the rule.
And it wasn't a terribly good rule, but it might have been in its own way.
Anyway, that's as a principle that It shouldn't be a privilege to vote.
Why shouldn't anybody be able to do brain surgery?
Because I went to schools, as seldom as I possibly could, in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, which is where the Bethlehem Steel Center was, and we used to go there on field drives.
Holy mackerel, this was like working in Dante's Inferno, these blackened figures jumping up and down in the blinded heat of the Bessemer converters.
And the other kinds of jobs of robots stuffing things into boxes or flipping burgers, the vast majority of people, yeah, they have their television sets and their internet and stuff like that, but the vast majority of people do not and cannot make their living out of their own creativity.
And before, however terrible things may have been in medieval times, People did creative transformational things.
That's the downside of technology.
And the other bad side of technology, you talked about the good side.
The bad side is that it's not immoral necessarily, but it's amoral.
So as long as they can do it, they do it.
What do you mean by that?
Well, hydrogen bomb, why not?
We don't invent it, somebody else will do it.
Nerve gas, well, that's a very good way of getting away with, you know, around stuff.
Striped toothpaste, well, it's a waste of time and effort and stuff like that, but maybe we can sell more striped toothpaste than unstriped toothpaste.
And the rest of it is, in other words, a percentage of it, yeah, the medicine is very good until it gets into the hands of big pharma, and then make sure that people are ripped off to get at the medicine that they need and the medicine that they have available.
It's not usually a cure.
It's a way of keeping people alive and buying more medicine.
Anything that's actually a cure that comes from alternative sources is fought to the death by the big pharmaceutical companies.
So technology is certainly a mixed bag.
And entertainment, depending on how you define it, is what you do to kill time before it kills you.
For the most part, it's an absolute waste of time.
It takes your mind off the boringness of your own life.
Art is different.
Art is not entertainment.
There's a broad line in between that, at least in theory, could or should be filled by comedy, which is not exactly entertainment.
But it's not exactly sacred science either, but it plays, at least theoretically, it can play a kind of a transformational role.
Real high-level comedy is enlightening.
It points out, and comedy is based upon, you can't laugh.
Comedy is based upon What's wrong?
You can't laugh at what's right.
You can't make fun of good sex or good food.
You can make fun of attitudes toward good sex or good food.
But you can't laugh at what's right.
Not easily, but you can laugh, but you can and do laugh at what's wrong.
And so, let's say at some inner level, by laughing at what's wrong, Inadvertently, it's a recognition we have within us, let's say, a moral, we have a moral Compass is the wrong word.
We have a moral thermometer or something of the sort that recognizes, by recognizing what's wrong, we're assenting, giving assent to what's right.
It is too cultural.
Of course, what's funny to an Eskimo is not necessarily funny to an African.
What's funny to an African is not necessarily funny to a Chinese.
But comedy has this Potential to play, at least in my view, a transformational role.
But anyway, mostly it doesn't.
And entertainment, at the American level, turn on your television set.
Because when they're rebuilding it, they're rebuilding the feet and the paws of the Sphinx, and I understand there's considerable erosion that they have to mitigate, but it's not the Sphinx anymore.
Well, it's bringing the Sphinx back to supposedly what it was originally.
The problem really is an engineering problem.
They don't know themselves, and at least a few of them acknowledge it.
Schock thinks this.
He's not in charge of doing the repairs, that it may be doing more damage because it's still weathering on the inside, and by covering it over with these usually very badly done stuff, that they're actually doing more damage than that.
Well, he was in trouble, but they couldn't pin it on him.
Oh, the slippery bastard.
No, listen, Zahi, on a personal level, that's another long story, and we've already gone on for two hours, but on a personal level, I can get on with Zahi.
And he's now back in, not formally in a position of power.
He's not head of the department.
And he's got his problems.
unidentified
Did you see the debate that he had with Graham Hancock who walked out right away?
What we're looking at right now, for the people that are just listening, is it buried in sand, which it has been many, many times when Napoleon found that it was buried in sand, correct?
Completely buried in sand and probably for a few thousand years.
This is taken, photograph taken about 2000, when it had already been excavated and filled up with sand again, which happens pretty quickly.
So basically you can say, give or take a few hundred years, that since its supposed construction around 2500 B.C., It's been buried in sand about 3,000 of those 4,500 years.
They attribute it to Khafre because the causeway that leads from the Sphinx, as you go behind it, you see the beginning?
Not really, you see it just back in the Sphinx.
The causeway The causeway leads up to, right to the middle of the Pyramid, of the Khafra Pyramid, which he almost certainly did build or anyway superimposed upon something that was there before because you can prove that.
Actually, you see, the African face is a real problem, actually.
Of course, the Egyptians are as prejudiced as everyone else, and they don't want to actually believe that the Sphinx itself could be a sub-Saharan African, maybe from an earlier period when the Africans were pharaohs.
That's us speculating that way because the head is way too small for the body.
And we had the NYPD. We did this big study.
I think that's the next slide coming up.
Yeah, there it is.
There you see Frank Domingo, who was the...
Sketch artist?
Well, he was a forensic, a senior forensic artist for the NYPD. He's a guy who knows about, you know, physiognomy.
So he did a study of the comparative faces of the Sphinx and the, of the Sphinx, that's the one on the right, and Pharaoh Khafra and his conclusion was that no No competent artist or sculptor could possibly have used the same model for the face of the Sphinx as for the Kafra face.
And there's a few Kafra faces floating around.
So my criminal partner, when Frank gave us that study, his comparative study, Boris, Said said, for the academic establishment, this is bad news and worse news.
The bad news is that there wasn't Atlantis, and the worst news is they were black.
My black friends like that phrase.
But anyway, in the 90s, I did an op-ed piece for the New York Times, and I carefully left that part out.
I just compared, used the Frank Domingo's drawing versus the Sphinx.
But a couple of weeks later, a letter was published from an orthodontist, who also knows about faces, saying, hey, hey, that Sphinx is actually a sub-Saharan African face.
I didn't say it.
He said it, so I'm not in trouble for that.
But anyway, until something better is discovered, it's a sub-Saharan African face, and it was re-carved, and we don't know when.
Well, it's also a harder limestone, so probably, again, this is speculation, but we reckon that an outcrop of stone was sticking above the sand level to begin with, and somebody at some point A jillion years ago,
decided to carve the Sphinx by cutting around it, cutting the bedrock away from around it, leaving the outcrop above and carving that into whatever it may have been originally.
One of my dreams, not dreams, but sort of vision, whatever, but hope is that one of these days somebody turns but hope is that one of these days somebody turns over a spade in Damascus or somewhere up there and discovers a cache of hidden...
Of hidden scrolls from the Library of Alexandria.
It's quite probable that the so-called maps of the Sea Kings, you know, the Piri Reis map and some of those other things, are copies of maps that were originally part of the library.
And the geophysicist who did it said, yeah, there's a void down there.
Does that mean that it's...
It could be a natural void that's certain kinds of limestone that's riddled with those kinds of voids, but this isn't that kind of limestone.
So more stuff.
When the opposition finally caves in and says, they never say they're wrong, and says, well, this deserves further study, then maybe we get permission to go and really look back in...
Into that.
Stick a probe down to something like that and see if there is indeed something in there.
Now, has there ever been any discussion whatsoever about...
I mean, I know they've done all this repair work on the Sphinx.
Has there ever been any discussion of taking the limestone that was pulled from the Great Pyramid and somehow or another putting new limestone back up there to recreate its original look?
Because of the way it's oriented, one of the reasons they come out with the date, Hancock and Boval originally came out with this 11,500, because it was a processional marker, because that would be the time as a lion, that would be the time when it lasts.
Saw its own image in the sky, Leo the Lion, the constellation of Leo.
That would have been the last time, I think, not that there's too much that's going on, it's in too chaotic a stage to have been done then.
I think it may be the age before that, which would be about 36,000 BC, which would correspond with the Egyptian texts themselves.
However, that said, it wouldn't surprise me if we were older still.
Until we get a bunch of geologists and experts in their various fields to see if they can put a fix on it, and they might not be able to, but that's one of the things we look What are we looking forward to doing if we get permission to go back in there, get the funding, important, and the permissions to go there and actually get this done?
And this is where actually we were just in Egypt when I climbed up and down the pyramid myself at 84. It's a complicated story, but we did get to meet the new Minister of Antiquities, who was very cordial and listed the things that we had to do in order to get formal position.
But in any way, we established a personal contact with him, which was very useful.
And then we also met up with the director of this new gigantic museum that they're building and that is going to open in a year or two ago.
And he was very open to anything even controversial that they could apply science to.
So if some of the other pieces of this trip didn't go as planned, we couldn't get to see some of the things we wanted to see for complicated reasons.
But anyway, we established...
The potential foothold for getting the next stage of work accomplished.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but they think that people in this form, the form of you and I, have only been around for somewhere around 300,000 to 500,000 years.
When you're looking at something like this and you're talking about 36,000 years, boy, that's...
It's just crazy to think that there's this period where people are just throwing shit at each other and throwing pointed sticks at animals and kind of barely getting by, and then something like this...
It just sort of erupts out of the imagination and the ingenuity of people that lived tens of thousands of years ago.
Especially considering that they still think the Sphinx is 2500 BC. Yeah, yeah, well, this is, remember, as I said, the second strongest thing in the world.
This is the corner of Khafra Pyramid, and you see the two very different styles of architecture.
The huge blocks below, very finely dressed, and the much cruder This is evidence of two separate stages of construction.
It's like if you bought a Victorian house with an Ikea kitchen in it, you wouldn't say, oh well, they just decided to build this Victorian house and put this cool new kitchen in.
No.
You'd know in two seconds that it's two different stages of construction.
Anyway, we've got a lot of tough stuff to cover here.
And if you go poking back into it it's all you see the joints between them are pretty rough but in fact if you poke back in there you see that they fit together that you can't you can barely get a credit card between them it's just that's that's you know lots and lots of weather over lots and lots of years.
Then those are the blocks of the Great Pyramid, which are much smaller and almost presuppose a later state of construction.
Yeah, those are the same.
Okay, that's the Red Pyramid.
You know, we're going to take up too much time here.
Keep going.
Okay, that's the interior of the Red Pyramid.
And you see, that's a megalithic construction.
It's always called a plundered tomb chamber.
A, it's not a tomb chamber because nobody was ever found in it.
It doesn't look like any Egyptian tomb chamber.
And B, it's not plundered.
It's simply ruinous.
This is an earlier...
This is an earlier construction that, for whatever reason, the builder of the Red Pyramid decided to incorporate that into his pyramid.
It's not like an IKEA kitchen incorporated into the Victorian house.
It's something that was there before and that they built the pyramid on top of.
So much like when they go and do excavations in Mexico City, they're building buildings down there and they have to stop construction because they find some ancient pyramid or something along those lines.
And this is, again, a good friend of mine has just done an elaborate book on this.
And even though he's not an Egyptologist, it's being academically published.
But it's going into all sorts of things having to do with this strange structure, which is one of the most resonating, powerful places in all of Egypt.
We are convinced, Shock and myself, that those central pillars date from a much earlier period, and then the rest of the temple is Seti I, which is about 1300 BC. But this is too elaborate to get into here, and I'm running out of words.
And Graham still, now he's getting a bit more cautious about it.
But we went there, financed by this mega-millionaire Japanese industrialist, Really, I mean, he wanted to prove the existence of Lemuria.
And as you see, I mean, all of those geometric looks there.
And Chuck and I came to the conclusion after a week of diving there that seductive as it looks, it really is a natural, entirely a natural way.
And we could even see, we don't have the pictures of it because it was the last day we were there, you could even see the way that it was formed by the nature of the rock and the action of the waves And the terrific tides that prevail there.
And this they date, they date, not us, they date to 31,000 BC or older.
This is genius stuff.
Great artists did this.
Great artists are not primitive.
They might be shooting arrows at rhinoceroses to eat, and why not?
It's a lot better than going to the supermarket.
Organic.
You've never heard of a GMO rhinoceros.
But this is fabulous work.
And who knows what was going on the rest of the time when they're doing this in the dark, hidden away in these caves.
And this is 31,000 B.C. So the date for us of 36,000 or thereabouts for the Sphinx and all of that is not as out of the question as you think because they date this to 31,000.
And this presupposes A, an extremely sophisticated artistry and supremely sophisticated artistry is not done by morons or by primitives.
Well, now it's near the Syrian border, so God knows what they're doing, but they're covering it over because once they started excavating it, it's been protected by the fill for all of these thousands of years, and it started deteriorating.
So now they've Unfortunately, you can no longer see it the way that Chuck and I saw it six, seven years ago.
It was actually discovered in the 90s, 94 or so, and they've been working on it ever since, and it only came into public view around 2004 or thereabouts.
And here's some of the detail, and this is why Schock is fascinated by this, because that kind of thing of the anthropomorphic, of the hands grasping around the corner, Doing that was something almost identical to that in Easter Island.
We think Easter Island plays a role in this whole lost civilization hypothesis.
That's more.
Again, this is raised relief.
You have to chop the stone, cut or abrade the stone away from the figures.
This one there is a kind of a feline of some sort.
Mm-hmm.
It's hard to tell exactly what it is because it's stylized, but it's a pretty brilliant piece of sculpture and you have to carve away the whole stone surface in order to get at that.
I'm not sure if they know or surmise what that is.
There's a bunch of pottery in Egypt in terms of carved stone pottery where they have zero idea how they constructed it with a very thin lip and then it goes inside contoured.
This is a bracelet found recently in Turkey, made of obsidian, which is an almost impossible stone to work with.
And the ridges on it, they, again, not us, have found by doing a careful study of it geometrically, that it's very sophisticated geometry at work.
I forget exactly what it is that's at At issue here, but it's not just a couple cavemen saying, well, you know, my wife is pissed off at me, so I better give her something nice for our anniversary.
Okay, this is Sardinia, which is a treasure of megalithic, misunderstood...
Look at these extreme, fantastic structures.
We think, shockin' myself, that this may be, a lot of this may be in answer to this massive coronal mass ejection that happened maybe thousands of years earlier even, and people are still building things to keep them safe from another one of these.
There are some people, but, you know, when the world is overpopulated, to the extent that it is, it's not going to get to an awful lot of people very quickly.
It's difficult to do.
Yeah, these are the interior of those extraordinary, Nuragyi they're called.
This is the stone circle in Egypt, in Nabda Playa, as it's called, that looks completely fragmented and rough.
But in fact, even this, the academics, the archaeoastronomers acknowledge is astronomically oriented, and there's a physicist, an archaeoastronomer named Tom Brophy, who studied it much more carefully and has found much more sophisticated alignments than just solstices and equinoxes.
Well, what they're doing, back to procession, for whatever reason that we don't understand, but with the evidences there, festivals and all sorts of things like that are attuned.
Take place at these critical, let's call them energy points.
And what they're doing, and it's quite clear that they're doing it, is that they're orchestrating their entire civilization.
They're tuning their entire civilization to the movements of the heavens.
This is quite clear.
And this can kind of demonstrate what they're achieving by that.
Well, or who think they got their knowledge, yes, that it comes to them directly from Sirius.
I don't think they think they come from Sirius.
They might.
I'm not sure.
But anyway, Laird work started out just as a sort of...
Amateur thing.
Looking into the cosmology of the Dogen and at a certain point he decides to see how that matched current technology.
He's a techie guy.
He's an expert in computer languages and things like that.
So he's He's very good at this kind of work, and he finds that in the first book of his called Science of the Dogen, that this Dogen cosmology of this rather simple tribe in Western Africa, Mali?
Mali, I think it is.
Has their cosmology, which they know about, they can transmit it, is in fact consistent with the latest wrinkles and string theory and torsion theory and high-energy physics and all that sort of stuff.
And then that led him to the study of other civilizations.
And he's now six or seven books into it.
And really what he's doing is it's unrecognized except by a handful of people.
You know, they're not bestsellers.
And they're written very well.
It's very simple and easy to follow.
He's showing that this...
This complex cosmology is understood and expressed by every society, virtually every society that he's looked into, including the Chinese.
That was a relatively recent book and he's ending up with a master picture puzzle of all of these ancient civilizations and there's no dating them exactly, but it's become quite clear through this body of work that the ancients had this The same, effectively, the same cosmology and the same understanding of it.
We think that this is a hand-me-down from the ancient civilization that we're busy trying to validate.
The people that existed before the coronal mass that had achieved some sort of a high level of sophistication, and then these people with whatever knowledge was left over, whatever they had managed to save.
What you're seeing up here, figure 12.4, the quantum frenzy can cause a string-anti-string pair to erupt and annihilate, yielding a more complicated interaction.
I think it's very hard for us to put into perspective what it would be like if there was some sort of a high level of sophistication involved in the society back then and then they experienced whatever it was, whether it was meteor showers, super volcanoes, asteroid impacts, whatever it is, and then trying to retain a certain amount of it and pass it on to your children, how things would get so convoluted and distorted, and there would be very little left.
Well, I think there's a good case that can be made for that because stuff gets, after this catastrophe, Things really do go into a tailspin, and then around 3000 BC,
4000 BC, all of a sudden, all over the place, very sophisticated Civilizations arise, but based upon this ancient knowledge, the mythology is all there to begin with, but suddenly there's Sumeria, and around the same time there's Egypt, there's China, for sure, there's India, and all of these seem to arrive at a very high level of understanding around that 4000 or so date.
Especially Sumer, when they go over some of the ancient, those clay tablets, when they see the depictions of the solar system, that's where it gets really confusing.
It's like, how the hell did they know this?
How did they know that there was a sun in the center and that all these planets were in the correct size?
I mean, they had Jupiter in the correct size, in the correct position, Mars in the correct position.
John, of the solar system depiction in the clay tablets.
Because it's really fascinating stuff.
I mean, it clearly shows the sun with what we, you know, our standard sort of image of a sun where it's a circle and the radiating sort of lines outside of it.
And then it has all these planets circling around it.
Yeah, myths, because things change shape, and one thing becomes another, and when those are shown pictorially, it doesn't mean that it's to be taken literally.
Um, this is something that's being discussed over and over again now.
It's much more mainstream.
And now that Graham Hancock has got a lot of, uh, traction on his work and his new book, Magicians of the Gods, and Randall Carlson, who's an expert on asteroidal impacts, has sort of impacted his work as well, and really, uh, uh, sort of, Made it more interesting because he's provided a context with some historical, like actual scientific evidence of impacts.
That's Brophy's slides, where he's looking for much more sophisticated information in Nob de Playa.
And even if his more far-out speculations are just speculation, I think there could be Just the basic the basic premise is already of great significance that that this is because this is dated to five six thousand B.C. That makes it the oldest dateable stone circle now one of the things I was going to I forgot when we were talking earlier about this idea of the precession of equinoxes,
the wobble of the Earth being caused perhaps by a dwarf star that we don't know exactly where it is.
That was one of the theories about whatever it is outside of the Kuiper Belt.
That there's this object out there now that their 90% plus sure exists, and they're calling it, you know, Planet X or whatever it is.
They think that it's at least four times larger than the Earth, and it's somewhere outside of the Kuiper Belt, which is now what they believe Pluto's a part of, right?
You know, I think it was Dennis McKenna had this great saying that when the bonfire of understanding grows, it illuminates the surface area of ignorance.
I want to skip stuff now because I'm running out of words, which is hard to do.
That's one of those very hard stone vase.
With this thin lip and the walls of the vase are about as thick as the rim of the lip.
And this is all made out of one piece of a very hard stone called Green Shift.
And we think, actually, shocking myself, and an idea by another friend of mine, a very good writer named Paul William Roberts, was his suggestion that, hey, maybe these stone things, there's quite a few of them, Date from the earlier period and were kept as sacred objects all of those years.
And of course, if they were kept and guarded and not broken, and a hammer breaks it, but were kept in one piece, you know, X number of thousand years, they wouldn't be weathered or anything.
It's not at all clear that they did it in the allotted 25 years or something of the sort.
Why they did it, I mean, again, to an academic, the only possible explanation is that they were tombs, even though there's no evidence whatsoever that they were tombs.
But if they say they were tombs, they don't need evidence.
I don't know, except what I'm pretty sure is that there weren't tombs and there weren't tombs only.
My general sense of it is that since everything in Egypt has its focus, the quest for immortality in some way, shape or form, they enhance That quest.
They make it possible to do things that you wouldn't otherwise do.
I can tell you, you get enough people together and come on a trip or come on your own.
When we do our two-hour meditation in the pyramid, you come out of there knowing that you've not been just in a quiet bathroom.
This place It surges with power.
You get a group of people in there, all of whom are, especially if they're some who have practiced some meditation.
It's really, it's something.
I mean, you come out of there.
Knowing that you've experienced something that you've not experienced before.
So how they were used and to what end, I don't know.
I mean, this is a quite common theory that there were sites of high initiation.
Well, there are sites of high initiation, and when you understand what initiation involves...
That's not a dumb theory.
It is a dumb theory if you don't think there's such a thing as initiation.
And if you think that illumination is dependent upon electricity, well, you'll not be able to think Egyptian.
But if you've been to the places and have experienced for yourself the power of these places, then explanations of that sort, even though they don't count as I mean, they're speculative, for sure, but when you don't have any evidence for them being tombs, that's pretty speculative, too.
See, A. That is a cavern or a chamber or of some sort.
It's a void.
Underneath the bedrock, and that's the so-called Hall of Records.
People think that's what Edgar Cayce is talking about.
We're iffy about it other than that the seismograph does not know how to channel.
So it just says what's there and what's there.
It knows there's a void, and at the very back, it's a little bit, you don't see, it's the edge of the sea.
See, at the very end, by the rump, that is also a chamber, and that's absolutely, it's known that it's there, and this gives you the same profile, seismologically.
Yeah, the back one, there's a way, it's a very rough cut chamber, and there's a, just behind there, one of those stones, if you pull it away, And you can get in and it's a room, rough, it's very rough, but about the size of the room that we're in here, the studio.
And that's a room.
So if that's a room, then it stands to reason, seismographical reason anyway, that A is also a cavern or a grotto or a construction or something.
Landsat, infrared, something, you know, when you can photograph underground, they have, yeah, there are hundreds of sites that they know are there, graves and tombs and stuff like that, but most of them, I don't think that kind of photography, I thought there's a name for it, I don't think that kind of photography goes deep enough for us to establish the lost civilization.
It'll be under the sand level.
It'll be at the bottom of the sand level.
And so far, at any rate, it doesn't get down that deeply.
But they have lots of places to excavate if they had the money.
Let's go whisk by here, because this is Anthony Peratt, who's a physicist.
It's his thing.
And here, these are these figures that show up through the electron microscope and that are mirrored by those strange, dancing, multi-headed, multi-armed Figures at the petroglyphs at the top, usually at the upper registers of the petroglyph facade.
There was a whole bunch of other stuff that I wanted on.
Well, some stuff I wanted to whisk through, but what was up there, maybe I'll send it to you, is the map of Dhamfakistan, of greater and lesser Dhamfakistan, which is very useful.
And my five cowboys and the graphic of the five cowboys.
It's a very graphic.
My stepson found it somewhere online.
But it really shows the fun of the cowboys in action.
Which is, as I said, you pick up the daily newspaper or turn on the internet and you see the cowboys at work.
Do you feel like people are slowly but surely starting to come around at the concepts of these ancient civilizations being not the primitive people that we've been told, but maybe perhaps really complex...
Well, a lot of people, the trouble is that the picture is muddied.
I mean, the academics are almost as staunch as ever in their delusion.
But the trouble is that the whole scenario is muddied and it's almost unavoidable by...
Ancient aliens and Zechariah Sitchin and a whole bunch of nutcases that think that aliens built the pyramids and all of that sort of stuff.
So, yes, more people are interested, but the percentage of those that are actually capable of...
Of sifting the evidence and intellectually honest enough to accept what stands up to scrutiny and not.
Numerically, there are lots more of them than there were, but statistically, they're a very, very small percentage of A very small percentage of the populace that actually care or understand it.
No, not on Netflix, but they probably wouldn't take it because they'd have to make, A, you'd have to cut a really lousy deal with them, and B, the numbers probably wouldn't justify it.
Just the sheer depth of the information when you go over, like, the temple and man and all the different – just the different incredible structures that exist in Egypt that most people don't even discuss.
Well, what I would like to do, actually, and I hope my pal Clay and some other people are going to help me with this, I'd like to get some of my other, when I'm wearing my other hat, my writers, my Bohemian beret instead of my Egyptological pith helmet,
because I've got a whole lifetime's worth of work, much of which has been produced But none of it really commercially successful and it's just sitting there waiting to get done and Netflix would be the perfect venue for it if I had something to show them, you know, because they do production.
I mean, that's one of the best things about the Internet is that something like that can kind of spring up and become a bigger network than any of the networks on television.
Well, it's a silly idea, but it was good back when there was no other ideas.
You had to sit through those commercials and wait for the next segment, and then you watch ten minutes and the commercials popped on again, you rolled your eyes and waited for the commercials again.
All that stuff's nonsense now.
You watch a commercial now, you're like, what is this silly thing?
Well, thank you, and thank you for all of your work, because I think you've done a great service to the world to sort of shine light on this amazing civilization.