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June 29, 2016 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:00:51
Joe Rogan Experience #816 - Joe Schilling
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Main voices
j
joe rogan
01:13:54
j
joe schilling
43:26
Appearances
Clips
j
jamie vernon
00:07
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Speaker Time Text
joe rogan
Boom!
We're live.
Fresh from the trenches.
Joe Schilling in the motherfucking house.
joe schilling
What's up, Joe?
joe rogan
How are you, brother?
joe schilling
I'm doing pretty well.
joe rogan
Are you chatting with people?
You doing that Snapchat?
joe schilling
Yeah, I had to Snapchat you to the world.
joe rogan
These wacky kids and their Snapchat.
I tried Snapchat the other day because my little daughter loves it.
Goddamn, dude.
All my names are taken.
My name's taken.
Powerful JRE's taken.
Joe Rogan Experience is taken.
Everything.
These fucking creeps.
joe schilling
That's so weird.
joe rogan
Give it up, you freaks.
Give me my name back.
joe schilling
Weirdos.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, what are you going to do?
I was late to the game.
What is the big deal with Snapchat?
Why is everybody like that?
joe schilling
I don't know.
It's really blown up lately.
When it first came out years ago, it was like...
It had a little different connotation to it.
It was like, you know, the picture is deleted in like five seconds.
It was like your sexting app.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe schilling
Fucking dick pics and shit.
joe rogan
Yeah.
But nobody deletes those.
They just make a screenshot.
joe schilling
Yeah, they'll tell you, hey, she screenshotted your stuff there.
joe rogan
And you're like, no!
That's that horrible feeling in the bottom of your gut.
joe schilling
No!
I don't know.
You have problems if you're sitting dick pics anyway.
Okay.
joe rogan
Unless the girl wants dick pics, and then you gotta send them.
joe schilling
I guess.
joe rogan
Yeah.
If you talk to people that are in the dick pic game, they'll tell you, you gotta send pictures to get pictures.
Because girls feel vulnerable.
If they're just sending you pictures of their pussy, and you're not sending anything back, they feel like, this motherfucker has me here.
This is bullshit.
There's no trust in this relationship.
Even if they don't want them, They just want a picture.
You know?
Sometimes you gotta be vulnerable for these girls.
Allegedly.
What am I, an expert?
joe schilling
This is where we're starting to put out a podcast with dick pics.
joe rogan
Well, there's no rhyme or reason to any of these damn things.
You know?
So, like I said...
joe schilling
Apparently Joe Rogan's dick pic game is very strong.
joe rogan
It's shaky.
It's all over the road.
But my fucking phone, I give my phone to my six-year-old.
It's filled with Snapchat pictures of her face.
Switching in with Kimbo Slice's face.
All the pictures I have on my phone.
She goes through all my photos and finds pictures that she wants to swap faces with.
joe schilling
Kids.
joe rogan
These wacky kids these days.
So, like I said, man, fresh out of the trenches, man.
You had a crazy war.
joe schilling
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
This weekend.
That was wild.
joe schilling
Yeah, man, that was...
That was something, wasn't it?
joe rogan
It was fucking something.
joe schilling
That was something.
joe rogan
That was for sure.
Like we were saying before the podcast started, you were really fighting emotional.
You were worked up, you know?
You'd already fought him before, and you wanted to get back at him, and it was kind of obvious in the way you were fighting.
You were really putting a lot of pressure on him.
joe schilling
Yeah, I didn't really feel that way at the time.
I wasn't aware of it, you know what I mean?
I was just in there doing me.
Yeah, it was a lot of pressure, a lot of...
Yeah, I wanted to knock him out.
I wanted to set things right.
I think being told and kind of carried as the face of Bellator kickboxing, there was a lot of pressure on my shoulders that night.
I wanted a big shot.
I wanted to make an exciting fight.
I think I did that.
joe rogan
You definitely did that.
joe schilling
You say kill or be killed.
And from Spike TV's perspective, I'm sure we killed it on the ratings.
My job was to carry the ratings because that's why it was the first fight from the main card.
Like I said, it was never a boring moment.
joe rogan
It wasn't boring.
It was fucking wild.
There's a weird fine line you have to cross sometimes between...
I should ask you, how do you make the distinction of whether or not you should fight smart or fight exciting?
Do you make that distinction or do you just go, can't stop crazy and fucking charge at it?
joe schilling
I mean, yeah.
I guess there was like a tournament.
There would be more pressure to fight a little smarter or whatever.
I take pride in the way that I fight.
I think that when you turn on a fight, you want to see a guy like me.
You know what I mean?
Guys that complain about people that make boring fights and score points.
Floyd Mayweather, you know what I mean?
I want to see somebody fight like me.
I want to see a warrior go out there and put it all on the line and go out on the shield.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's something that promoters always hope that a guy fights like that.
They always hope that a guy goes out there charging out, guns blazing.
You know, but most people don't.
joe schilling
Yeah, well, I mean, hindsight, it didn't work out that well this time.
But, you know, it has worked out in the past a lot more often than that.
You know, there's a lot of, you know, the internet.
Fucking internet these days right now.
It's so brutal.
joe rogan
You didn't get online after the fight, did you?
joe schilling
I tried to stay off for a while, but it's just...
joe rogan
It's hard to stay offline.
joe schilling
It's hard.
It's a little hard.
joe rogan
Is there anything I can get out of this?
joe schilling
Nope.
joe rogan
Well, you can get a lot of technique advice from Keyboard Warriors.
I'm sure they have some strategy advice for you.
joe schilling
Yeah.
Everybody's an expert.
joe rogan
Yeah, everybody's an expert.
But, you know, that's just the thing.
It's one of those things where people don't really earn their opinion or their right to express their opinion.
Everybody just has one now.
They have an avenue to express.
So you have to separate...
What is that expression?
The wheat from the chaff?
Is that what it is?
Never figured out what the fuck chaff is.
You know what that is?
joe schilling
I talked to Vinny the other day.
Shorman?
Yeah, Vinny Shorman.
And...
He made a really good point about it.
I was like, oh, these fucking guys online.
It's easy to say, like, ignore them.
It's easy to say, you know, they're some jerk-off kid in their parents' basement.
I'm not personally religious, but, you know, he used it as an example.
He's like, you know, Jesus Christ was, like, the greatest person ever, right?
Like, the greatest, you know...
Water into wine, healed the sick, gave wine, all that shit.
The people still killed him, you know?
It doesn't matter how good you are or what you do, there's always gonna be some fucking asshole who talks shit and does, you know what I mean?
And that was an interesting little perspective that seemed to work out for me.
Like, who cares what these people think?
It doesn't matter what you do, they're gonna fucking hate you.
joe rogan
If everyone was perfect, you wouldn't appreciate perfect people.
If everybody was awesome and really cool and easy to talk to and friendly, you wouldn't...
It's not going to happen.
It's too hard.
It's too hard to have your shit together.
And there's too many variables that have to happen in your childhood, I think.
You know, everything either has to go really good or really bad when you appreciate things that are really good.
So you gravitate towards that.
It's one or the other.
But it's just, human beings are just a project with no directions.
It's like we're a super complicated computer, and no one has a fucking guidebook.
No one knows exactly how to work it.
No one knows exactly what's the...
And everything's happening in real time.
And the words you say, especially when you say something online, you might just be in a crazy mood.
And you might just tweet at Jamie.
Hey, Jamie, how about you go fuck yourself, you fucking piece of shit.
For no reason.
You might just want to get a reaction out of him.
unidentified
I will, after the show.
joe rogan
Please don't do that to Jamie, folks.
But, you know, people do stuff like that, and they don't even know why they're doing it.
They're doing it to get a reaction, or they're doing it because they're upset, and they're like, why is this fucking Joe Schilling guy on TV this piece of shit?
Fuck you.
I'll kick his ass.
joe schilling
Miserable people.
joe rogan
But if they met you, they'd be like, hey, man, big fan.
joe schilling
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
unidentified
For sure.
joe rogan
Like how you fight.
unidentified
Oh.
joe schilling
You're a real fighter.
Or I'll get like a message like, I was in a bad mood, I said something really bad about you a couple months ago online, I'm really sorry, can you unblock me now?
I'm like, no, you're a fucking asshole.
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
You're still a fucking asshole.
joe rogan
You live by the sword, die by the sword, kids.
joe schilling
That's it.
joe rogan
If you get blocked, you stay blocked.
joe schilling
Zero tolerance policy.
Zero tolerance.
joe rogan
You gotta be a real piece of shit to get blocked.
And even if you're a real piece of shit, one day you might snap out of it, but you're gonna have to change your Twitter name.
You're gonna have to start fresh.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a new you.
Think about it that way.
joe schilling
You're a new troll.
joe rogan
But I think, you know, if someone is upset at you because they don't like, you know, a painting that you did or they don't like a song that you made, that's one thing.
But a fight is so emotional and so personal and it's so, the consequences are so much different than any other endeavor.
unidentified
Even if you lose a game, LeBron James, you fucking suck.
joe rogan
It's just a game.
The ball didn't go in the net.
Who gives a fuck?
You know, in a fight, it's the highest consequences possible.
There's no higher consequences other than war.
There's no higher consequences as far as, like, how it feels to lose or what it feels like.
To hear people talk shit about you, about your performance.
And that's one of the reasons why they do it.
Like, they know.
They know it sucks.
And they know it's not them.
I have a theory about that, man.
I think one of the reasons why people attack people, like, when something goes wrong in their life, like a Charlie Sheen thing or something like that, is that they know that that could happen to them, but it's not happening to them right now.
So they feel like, well, fuck him, man.
Go after him.
You know, they have this...
They understand that they would be equally vulnerable and they feel that little opening.
They just...
They can't help it.
It's like a fucking scab.
They want to pick at it.
joe schilling
That's interesting.
I just think they're just pieces of shit.
joe rogan
That too.
joe schilling
You're just a fucking piece of shit.
Yeah.
And they're just haters.
You've never done anything with your life.
You're not willing to take those risks.
And then when you see somebody else taking those risks and then it doesn't work out, they're like, I fucking told you so.
You know?
Sad people.
They're just sad, miserable people.
joe rogan
Definitely.
Yeah, that's definitely true.
Did you ever see that HBO, was it 24-7 with Floyd Mayweather, where he's eating a cheeseburger with his friend, and some guy, some fucking fat, doughy cunt is yelling at him how he's afraid to fight Manny Pacquiao?
Like, you're talking to arguably the best boxer that's ever lived.
unidentified
Ever.
joe rogan
Pretty, pretty arguable.
joe schilling
Yeah, pretty, pretty, pretty good argument.
joe rogan
49-0, but really he's only been rocked maybe twice in his whole fucking career.
You might think his style's boring, but the fucking guy has done it.
I mean, he just did it.
And he's talking to some Doughy shithead, some flapping jaw, dumb cunt, who's giving him a hard time about fighting Manny Pacquiao, who he then went shut out a couple months later.
But it's those people that aren't doing anything, those are the ones that are gonna yell something like that out.
Those are people that, they don't have anything to gain or to lose.
joe schilling
And that guy bought the Mighty Pacquiao, he bought the pay-per-view, that same fat doughy piece of shit.
joe rogan
Probably.
joe schilling
Bought the pay-per-view and is a Floyd Mayweather fan and probably bought the TMT t-shirt and hat and rocks his tap out fucking shit.
You know, same guy.
joe rogan
Yeah, he probably has it on a loop on his Facebook.
joe schilling
He tells everybody, like, did you see that 24-7 I was on?
Did you see that shit?
joe rogan
I called him out, yo.
I called him out.
Meanwhile, Floyd would slap him in the mouth and make him drink his piss.
joe schilling
Now we just gave him another moment to hit it off of.
There you go.
joe rogan
He doesn't have internet connection.
He doesn't pay his bills.
But I think that that's just, you know, there's this broad range of people.
There's going to be winners and there's going to be losers.
And there's going to be people that take risks.
There's going to be people that don't ever take risks.
And they just, they live their life, this sad, muted experience with no risks, no fun, and no rewards.
They just never, they never get to shine.
You know and a guy like you I Mean you fucking take some big-ass risks with your life and you have some big shining moments You know like the the fourth round kale of Simon Marcus, you know like you don't get those moments unless Sometimes those moments are turned on you.
It's just there's no other way like the way you do it There's no other way.
I mean sometimes you the hammer sometimes you the nail I am proud as hell of that, you know what I mean?
joe schilling
Like having this conversation like two or three days ago, it would have been a little rough conversation, but now like looking at it like...
I'm going to be remembered as that guy that always brought it.
My name's going to go down when I'm dead and gone.
They're going to remember what I've done for the sport of kickboxing, and I take a lot of pride in that.
And when you turn on a Joe Schilling fight, kill or be killed, I'm going to fucking try and knock his head off.
And I'm going to get caught again in the future, and I'm going to have some huge fucking ups, and I'm okay with that.
I've been knocked out three times.
I wasn't knocked out cold in this fight.
And it wasn't unconscious even for a second.
They just stopped the fight.
I've been knocked out three times in over 95 fights.
I've done more than I ever dreamed I would in the sport.
joe rogan
That's a lot of fucking fights.
joe schilling
My kids are super proud.
Their dad's a superhero.
My mom is super proud.
Knows what I've done.
I'm okay with that.
joe rogan
That's a great attitude.
And if you have that attitude and you press forward with that attitude, I know that you don't like losing, but if you can deal with it, it makes all the other stuff so much easier because you can get right back on the horse.
And you've done that already.
You have the experience of getting back on the horse.
joe schilling
I mean, I got hit by a shot and got dropped and the fight got stopped.
I've had Knee surgeries where I was out for a year and had to come back from it.
I've had, you know, really, really hard things to overcome and I don't plan on...
I'm not a good loser and I don't plan on ever becoming a good one, you know?
You show me a good loser, I'll show you a loser.
joe rogan
Now, the fight, I mean, he hit you with a beautiful spinning backfist, but it wasn't necessarily legal, right?
Because he hit you with a forearm.
Bellator rules you can't throw elbows, you can't throw forearms.
Isn't that kind of weird?
Because you could fucking shin kick someone in the head.
joe schilling
Yeah, well, I think it's...
ISK is the ruling body that does that for both Glory and for Bellator.
And the rules meaning they talk about you can You can clinch a knee, but it has to be active.
And if you are active and you're effective, then they'll let it go for five seconds.
If you're holding it all, if you're clinching to hold, they won't give you the five seconds.
They'll break it.
It's one of the rules they explain.
When you throw a spinning back fist, it has to be the glove that hits you.
Or they start taking the point away, you start warning because it's an illegal shot.
Now, I was a professional Muay Thai fighter with elbows and everything else, so I'm never going to say that, you know.
Did he plan on throwing that spinning back fist?
I don't think so.
Did he have a fucking clue where he was when he threw it?
Not really.
I'm pretty sure he was rocked and was like, oh fuck, and fucking threw it and hit me with it and that shit happens.
Was that technically a legal shot?
No, but I'm not going to contest that.
joe rogan
Yeah, it kind of should be legal though, right?
I mean, don't you think if you can hit someone with your shin, you should be able to hit someone with your forearm?
I mean, I don't like these rules.
joe schilling
I agree with that.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't like these rules.
I think they came up with these rules for K1, because K1 had this idea.
joe schilling
It used to be no back spinning back fist.
If you watched the old K1 fights, the only rule they'd say, come out, touch clothes, come out, swing, or whatever, and it was like, no spinning back fist.
joe rogan
That's so crazy.
joe schilling
But you could throw wheel kicks.
Yeah.
You know this the rule set is I believe designed for a certain style of fighter of entertainment same thing with the clinch.
Yeah, so they that's the Those are the rules that they want.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're not big on elbows in Japan because pride didn't allow elbows either Which is crazy because they allowed stomps and soccer kicks, but they didn't allow elbows on the ground So K1 came up with that rule set, and the idea behind it, I guess, was to make the fights more entertaining.
Because you wouldn't be able to clinch, and you'd be forced to fight it out.
joe schilling
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
Exactly.
joe rogan
What K1 did was pretty goddamn amazing.
I mean, they really took this sport that...
And I think, you know, Dana White had a really good point.
We were talking about this once, and I was trying to get him to buy K1. You know, I was like, look, man, these guys, they're going under.
Like, kickboxing...
This high-level kickboxing, whether it's Glory or it's Showtime or any of these big organizations, when you look at the high-level talent in kickboxing, that, to me, is some of the most exciting shit to watch in all combat sports.
When I watch a fight like your fight this past weekend, or the tournament, or the Simon Marcus fight, or your fight with Artem Levin...
These are crazy, chaotic fights.
I mean, that's what people love, I think, potentially the most about MMA. Obviously, you know, I'm a big fan of jiu-jitsu as well, and I love when fights go to the ground, and I love when guys win by submission, but...
Man, I mean you want to talk about just pure excitement.
Kickboxing is one of the most exciting sports on the planet, but Dana White's point was it got fucked in America by that goddamn PKA karate that used to be on ESPN where you would watch these guys throw these bullshit ass fake kicks where they had to get in like X amount of kicks per round so they would like throw these flippy fake stupid kicks and then they would have just really shitty sloppy boxing.
joe schilling
Oh, man, there's some really good fucking boxers, though.
I think the reason...
It started from the 70s, 80s.
Remember martial arts was the thing?
It was kung fu, Billy Jack and all that shit.
joe rogan
Well, they had some Rick Rufuses.
joe schilling
Rick Rufus was a bad motherfucker.
Alex Lesio was a bad motherfucker.
There was some...
Don the Dragon Wilson was a bad motherfucker.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
joe schilling
But so they had these...
There's karate guys, and there are martial arts guys in general, and they're building this, trying to make this full contact thing.
And there was all these boxers that were going there and just beating the fuck out of everybody.
They're like, okay, okay, okay.
You have to throw seven kicks before you can, you have to throw seven kicks per round just to keep it from, you know, turning into just straight boxing matches.
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
And you watch them, and they'll go out there, and they'll be like, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
unidentified
Wah, wah, wah!
joe schilling
I mean, they're bad motherfucking boxers.
So, like, there was some really good, um, There were some really good guys back then that did go overseas and competed worldwide.
joe rogan
Yeah, there was some, but there was also a lot of sloppy shit.
joe schilling
Oh, there's a lot of sloppy shit, too.
joe rogan
But if you look at the level that you're seeing now today in high-level kickboxing in comparison to them, like the Nikki Holtzkins and the Joe Valtellini and the Raymond Daniels and you, there's no comparison.
The level is so high today.
It's much higher today.
And I feel like the public is just, for whatever reason, they haven't tuned into it yet.
To me, it's the most exciting thing that most people don't know about.
joe schilling
Did you watch the Dynamite event?
joe rogan
Yeah, I did.
joe schilling
Did you like that?
joe rogan
I think it's an interesting way to do it.
Have a cage and a ring right by each other.
joe schilling
Yeah, the setup of the ring in the cage is, you know, Coker really likes it for the fans that are there that they can watch both at the same time.
You know, I think the seating arrangements get weird or whatnot, but from a marketing perspective to get exactly what we were talking about, America, to pay attention to kickboxing so that we can build this sport, you got all these people that tuned in to watch Rampage.
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
You got people that wanted to watch the title fight that was going on.
All of those MMA fans.
joe rogan
Michael Chandler.
joe schilling
Michael Chandler's fight.
Awesome.
He did a great job.
unidentified
Woo!
joe schilling
All those people that tuned in, Bellator showed high-level kickboxing.
You know what I mean?
That's a genius way to market it and to get it out there.
I was the first fighter on the kickboxing card to try to keep those ratings going.
joe rogan
Your boy Kevin Ross looked sensational too.
joe schilling
Fucking great.
Yeah, it's it's Carrie Melendez.
Carrie was fucking awesome.
joe rogan
Absolutely.
I'm excited the Bellator is doing it.
I'm excited Spike TV's doing it.
I'm excited that they're putting on kickboxing.
I just wonder what's missing.
Like, you know, the UFC needed the Ultimate Fighter.
Before the Ultimate Fighter, nobody had a fucking clue as to what MMA was.
They really didn't know.
It was just a few people had heard of UFC from the old days and the Hoist Gracie days and the vast majority of the public was kind of out of the loop.
And then they put on The Ultimate Fighter and you know, it was sort of the prime of reality TV back then.
And that fight between Forrest Griffin and Stefan Bonner, which was such a wild ass fight, that sort of made MMA. I mean, it really did.
It made the UFC. And Bellator needs something like that.
joe schilling
What if those two played it safe that night?
joe rogan
That's a good point.
joe schilling
Where'd we be here, Joe?
joe rogan
That's a good point.
joe schilling
Where'd we be, Joe?
joe rogan
That's a good point.
I'd probably be in Texas right now doing stand-up.
Probably would have never worked for the U.S. Probably would have went under.
joe schilling
How many keyboard warriors were telling Forrest Griffin how sloppy he looked that night and Stephan Bonner was a chode or whatever the fuck they would say.
joe rogan
What is a chode?
Does anybody know?
Is that a real thing?
You know what they like to call people today I've known is cuck.
joe schilling
A cuck?
joe rogan
A cuck.
That's a big thing.
Well, you know what it is?
It's like the kids on the internet have found a new insult.
Like, cuck has only been around for like...
unidentified
Cuck?
Yeah, cuck.
joe rogan
C-U-K? C-U-K, yeah.
Well, it comes from cuckold, which is like a guy who likes watching his wife get fucked.
By other men, usually manlier men.
joe schilling
How the fuck do you know that term, Joey?
How do you know that?
joe rogan
I'm online.
I frequent the internet, sir.
joe schilling
From dick pics to cuckold?
joe rogan
Yeah, cuckold, right?
Correct me if I'm wrong, Jamie.
But I believe that's what it's about.
You know who would know?
I wish Jim Norton was here.
He could explain this to us.
In its entirety.
But there is a whole genre of porn based around like really nerdy white guys who have like this smoking hot wife that's not satisfied.
And some guy is like, shut the fuck up and sit down.
I'm gonna fuck your wife in front of you.
unidentified
Oh no!
joe rogan
And they cry.
And some of them, they make the husband suck their dick.
That happens too.
joe schilling
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That's a cuck.
unidentified
That's a cuck.
joe schilling
Do the husband who sucks dick is the cuck?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe schilling
Or the guy that comes in and smashes the line?
joe rogan
No, that guy's a stud.
The guy who comes in and smashes it.
But I don't know if he's a stud, if he lets the guy suck his dick.
That's just weird.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's where it goes deep.
You know, there's like a spectrum even in cuck porn.
unidentified
So deep.
joe rogan
Even cuck porn has a...
There's a lot of variables that you have to take into consideration.
unidentified
Unbelievable.
joe rogan
But I see people calling people cucks all the time.
Like when...
joe schilling
If you're calling another man a cuck as an insult, what does that say about you and the porn that you watch that you know that is?
joe rogan
It just says you frequent, like Reddit or something, or you're on Twitter all the time.
I mean, I don't think it says anything about you.
I just think it's a new thing to call someone to hurt their feelings, you know?
Like, there's no other, there's no equivalent word.
Like, it's a new sort of, like, classification of someone, to call someone a cuck.
joe schilling
You fucking cuck.
joe rogan
Yeah, you cuck.
joe schilling
Well, no, I'm starting to have to start calling people that.
joe rogan
Yeah, no, don't do it.
joe schilling
We just promoted it to the world.
It was a kind of thing before.
Now it's going to be fucking holy shit.
joe rogan
No, they've been doing it forever.
joe schilling
They're going to call people a hashtag powerful cuck.
joe rogan
Oh, you just started something now, man.
You just made a big mistake.
You know when I noticed it a lot when Kurt Metzger, he's a writer for Amy Schumer's show.
He's a funny stand-up comedian, very funny guy.
And he was one of the writers for Amy Schumer's show when she was getting accused of plagiarism and all this stuff was going on.
And I was seeing all these people calling him a cuck.
And I was like, what is this?
And then I noticed it everywhere.
People calling people cucks.
Like everyone's a cuck.
joe schilling
Cuck.
joe rogan
It's just a phase.
joe schilling
I hope so.
joe rogan
There you go.
So if someone calls you a cuck, Now you know.
You're like, what am I, a chicken?
The fuck is that?
joe schilling
I don't get it.
joe rogan
A cluck?
joe schilling
Now I will get it.
The internets are gonna melt now.
All of the haters now are gonna call me a cook.
joe rogan
You think?
I don't think it'll work.
It doesn't work.
If you don't like actually watching your wife get guerrilla fucked by some greater...
First of all, you gotta find a dude to fuck your wife that you can't kick his ass.
That's not like a regular guy, Joe Schilling.
So this is a different sort of scenario.
A real cuck is supposed to be like a feeble person who lets some fucking Lawrence Taylor type dude come into his bedroom and fuck the shit out of his little white wife.
joe schilling
There's a visual for you.
joe rogan
Yeah, there you go.
That kind of a thing, you know?
joe schilling
Well, tuck won't work on me then.
I'm not that guy.
joe rogan
But they'll try it on you anyway.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, I wonder if we've run out of insults.
I mean, because this cuck one, they're using it so often, even when it's not really applicable, and they're doing it because it's a new one.
Like, we got a new one!
Yes!
Like, it's not like, this makes sense, let me call him a faggot.
This makes sense, let me call him a pussy.
No, it's like, we got this word, let's just throw it around until it's almost like they found a new word, and they're just throwing it around until it's useless.
joe schilling
And we're promoting it.
We'll be useless quicker now.
joe rogan
We're just reporters here, Joe Schilling.
We're just talking about the world.
You and I, we're essentially journalists.
Yeah, we're current events journalists.
And there might be some old folks right now that are maybe, you know, not in the same social groups as us.
Maybe they live in Iowa or something like that.
And they're just trying to dip their toe into the rest of the world.
Like, what are these kids talking about these days?
Let me see what a comedian and a kickboxer have to say about the world.
And then they find out about cucks.
And then, you know, their wife later is going through their Google search.
And she finds cuck.
What the hell's a cuck?
joe schilling
What the fuck is a cuck?
joe rogan
And then she starts looking up cuck, and she finds cuck porn, and she gets excited, and she thinks, my husband wants a guy to fuck me in front of him.
I know what I'm gonna do.
I'm gonna set some shit up.
And then she goes on Craigslist, finds some dude, and she thinks, you know, she's fulfilling a fantasy, tries to spice up the relationship, and suicide.
Murder-suicide, man.
joe schilling
Murder-suicide.
joe rogan
Probably, right?
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's hard to come back from that one.
joe schilling
Depends on how far on the sticks we're talking about.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I think now, with the internet, I don't think there really is a sticks anymore.
I think even in the sticks, they still get all the data.
If you have a connection to the internet, and you can research stuff, all the weirdness of the world will find its way into your brain.
There's no hiding anymore.
joe schilling
Can't hide from the cucks anymore.
joe rogan
Yeah, it used to be like you could live in some weird town in Kentucky and you would never find out about the goth people or the furries or any of the weird shit out there, but now you find out.
Cosplay.
Who the fuck's gonna find out about cosplay in West Virginia?
joe schilling
What the fuck is cosplay?
joe rogan
You don't know what that is?
joe schilling
What planet am I on?
joe rogan
You're too busy training.
joe schilling
I don't know anything about this shit.
joe rogan
Too busy hanging out in downtown LA. Representing DTLA. All day, son.
That's where my buddy Magnus Walker lives.
The Porsche guy.
You ever seen his videos?
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
Drives all around downtown LA in classic Porsches.
joe schilling
He was actually right, his spot, his loft or whatever is right next to where the first location of the yard in my gym was.
Really?
joe rogan
No shit.
So you're in the heart of it, man.
joe schilling
What do you like about downtown LA? Right now I like it because it's close to the gym and it's close to my kid's house and it's convenient.
It's close to Hollywood.
It's like 15 minutes from Hollywood.
It's kind of right in the middle of everything.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's funky too now.
Downtown LA is kind of morphing, right?
joe schilling
Yeah, it's getting different.
It used to be like a very arts district and like younger crowd.
Not too expensive.
Now it's like super...
High-end, expensive, like the property down there's blowing up.
joe rogan
It's crazy how it's blowing up.
We were actually looking at a place.
joe schilling
There's still much shit to do down there, though.
There's like five bars downtown.
joe rogan
That's it?
joe schilling
Yeah, it's not like...
I don't know.
I don't really enjoy it for nightlife stuff.
Some nice restaurants.
joe rogan
You know what it is?
I think people are craving something like that.
And they see something happening and they're like, it's happening.
It's happening.
It's happening right here.
Let's start building.
Let's start buying up.
And they're hoping that it becomes like a New York.
You know?
Because LA doesn't have...
joe schilling
LA doesn't have one.
joe rogan
No, it doesn't have like a place where anybody walks.
joe schilling
Well, LA is like, people say they live in LA, but you live in like Burbank or Glendale.
There's like 50 cities that have about as big a downtown as downtown LA. Yeah, it's like LA County.
joe rogan
If you live in LA County, you live in LA. But LA itself, LA proper, there's nowhere to walk.
It's like Melrose Street.
You could kind of walk on Melrose.
Good luck crossing one of those streets.
People will fucking run you over while they're texting and doing meth.
joe schilling
There's some cool spots downtown.
joe rogan
I was like, I can't believe you're hating on downtown LA. No, I like downtown LA. Jamie and I talked about putting a studio up.
I think what we might do, we're going to set up another place around here, but we're talking about doing a place on one of those penthouses.
One of those apartment buildings.
Just get an apartment on like a top floor with one of those crazy views.
joe schilling
Right.
joe rogan
I just think that would enhance a podcast.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
If we were sitting here and behind us was some fucking sick view of the city, especially at night.
joe schilling
Where the fuck is my picture, Joe?
I thought that was...
joe rogan
Oh, it's out there.
It's out in the other room.
joe schilling
It's in the podcast, okay.
joe rogan
It's in the other room.
joe schilling
Alright.
joe rogan
I'll go get it.
I'm gonna go get it.
unidentified
Nah, that's fine.
joe rogan
I'll go get it.
joe schilling
It's cool.
joe rogan
You're still smoking.
That picture has you smoking.
You quit for a little while.
unidentified
Are you back?
joe schilling
Yeah, I go back fourth, I think.
joe rogan
Gotta quit that shit, dude.
joe schilling
I don't know.
joe rogan
You gotta.
joe schilling
It's no good.
joe rogan
There's no benefit.
Zero.
Except the I don't give a fuck factor.
There's something about when you decide, I'm gonna smoke a cigarette right now.
Clearly, I don't give a fuck about my health.
I don't give a fuck about the future.
I don't give a fuck about cancer.
I don't give a fuck.
There's an I don't give a fuck moment.
But I guess there's some escape in that.
There's some fun in that.
And then you get the chemicals from the cigarette that you're craving.
That nice nicotine feeling, the calmness that comes with it, that washes over it.
You need a cigarette right now?
joe schilling
You're making me want one, actually.
joe rogan
But you're a professional athlete, man.
joe schilling
Yeah, I am.
joe rogan
Can't be doing that.
Try vaping?
Try sucking on those robot dicks that everybody's got?
joe schilling
Yeah, I have a great sponsor who hooked me up with that stuff.
They have Firebrand America.
Awesome.
joe rogan
Powerful Firebrand America.
Is that good?
joe schilling
They're really good.
They take really good care of me.
joe rogan
Do they have one of those big fat ones that look like a cigarette box?
joe schilling
Yeah, they have a whole bunch of those different kinds.
joe rogan
What is the deal with those?
joe schilling
It's called a mod.
I don't know.
joe rogan
A mod.
joe schilling
It's called a mod.
It's a big thing.
joe rogan
Cucks and mods.
joe schilling
Cucks and mods.
joe rogan
For a reason.
joe schilling
Cuck is not going to catch on.
I still don't get it.
I still don't fucking get it.
Still don't get it.
Cuck.
Why don't you just call the guy cock or cocksucker or fucking...
joe rogan
Nope.
You're a cuck.
joe schilling
Nope.
You're a fucking cuck.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They like it.
It's a new word.
It's exciting to use.
Let them use it.
People haven't had a new word to call people in so long, and they're trying to take away so many of them.
It used to be when I was a kid, you can call a kid a faggot.
Now you're gay bashing.
Back then it had nothing to do with being gay, but it's too late.
It's connected to that.
It's really hard to use retard.
It's hard to use retard today.
Even though it's not even a classification for mental illness.
It has nothing to do with Down syndrome.
Retarded means slow growth.
Slow to catch on.
It is literally the perfect word to use for retards.
When someone's a retard, calling them a retard is the perfect word.
You would never say that about someone who has a disease or someone who has Down syndrome.
unidentified
But if someone's like, once Trump wins, white people are taking over.
joe rogan
That's a retard.
That's a retard, right?
joe schilling
Fucking retard.
joe rogan
It's the right word.
joe schilling
It's the right word.
joe rogan
These goddamn language police motherfuckers.
joe schilling
Everybody's so sensitive.
joe rogan
They're too sensitive.
joe schilling
Bunch of cucks.
Fucking sensitive cucks.
joe rogan
They've trimmed it up.
joe schilling
Maybe they will catch on.
Maybe I do like it.
You fucking sensitive cuck.
joe rogan
We need a new word.
I'm happy it's around.
joe schilling
Because that actually works in the description, right?
It's the type of weak little bitch that would let some other man fuck his wife.
unidentified
Yes!
joe schilling
The same person that would be like, oh, don't call him a retard.
joe rogan
Exactly.
unidentified
We need to be more sensitive about the way we communicate.
joe rogan
But what they're really trying to do is just control people.
joe schilling
It's the pussification.
joe rogan
Yes.
The goddamn pussification of America.
joe schilling
See, it's not even America, though.
It's like the whole world.
joe rogan
The whole world.
joe schilling
It's just fucking pussification of everybody.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
And it's also not being honest about what the fuck's going on.
You know, like, when something happens, we have to be real sensitive to who we insult.
Post, like, attacks.
Like, with this shit that was going on in Germany where all these women were getting raped during New Year's Eve because of all these Islamic refugees that they had come in from Syria.
I mean, it's just, that's just the way it is.
People are coming from a completely different culture.
In their culture, women are much more suppressed.
They come over to this country, Germany, where women are westernized.
They're free, and they're wearing skirts, and their tits are hanging out.
They're dressed normal, and they're getting attacked.
And so, what does the fucking mayor of, what was it, Berlin, tell them?
Stay away from men and dress different.
Stay an arm's length away from men and dress more conservatively.
Like, literally!
This fucking...
These people are so sensitive and worried that they're gonna hurt someone's feelings or they're gonna be called Islamophobic or racist in some way that they're telling women who've done nothing wrong that they should dress differently because they've unfortunately let these people in from another culture that think about things differently.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
Bunch of cocks.
joe schilling
Fucking cocks.
unidentified
Sensitive cock.
joe rogan
The mayor of Berlin or wherever it was, was a woman.
Was it Berlin?
I don't remember when the city it was.
That's a woman, so it's even more confusing.
But boy, did she get fucking raked over the coals online.
People are getting tired of it.
The pendulum swings both ways.
You know, it swings towards ultra-sensitivity, and then people get sick of that, and they go, what the fuck?
And then they go hard the other way.
I think that's one of the reasons why Trump is the Republican nominee.
I think Caitlyn Jenner is responsible for a lot of it.
I think people saw that, and they're like, Fuck!
What are you doing?
What is this 62-year-old man?
Now he's a woman.
Call me Kate.
On the cover of Vanity Fair.
Gonna be naked on the cover of Sports Illustrated.
joe schilling
And then she won, like, Athlete of the Year or some weird fuck.
joe rogan
Get the fuck out of here.
Get the fuck out of here.
She won Woman of the Year.
joe schilling
Yeah, Woman of the Year.
joe rogan
She won it for a week.
She wins Woman of the Year.
It just shows you.
Men can do everything, including, can win Woman of the Year.
Look at this.
Cock.
Jamie pulled up the fucking definition.
Is this an urban dictionary?
unidentified
This is a better definition, I think, than the one you gave.
joe rogan
Oh, how dare you?
A demasculated millennial liberal male who often speaks of white privilege and modern feminism blames white men for all of the world's problems.
unidentified
Hmm.
This is the new definition.
joe rogan
They're updated now.
joe schilling
That's not all the definitions you gave me, Joe.
joe rogan
I like this, though.
There goes Chad again with the megaphone telling everyone that he's a vegan.
What a cuck.
Okay.
I like that.
I like that a lot.
But look up cuckold.
joe schilling
What still has it on here?
joe rogan
But cuckold is different.
It's a different, uh, short for cuck-servative?
What?
The word cuck is most commonly used on Twitter to describe anti-white males.
While it was originally formed with the original meaning of cuck...
Cuck hold.
The use of the word cuck does not necessarily denote a sexual connotation.
Wow, it's morphing.
The language is evolving before our eyes.
Cucks do not care about Islamic countries throwing gays off buildings or hanging them as much as the cake baker who is Christian and won't serve gay wedding customers.
Oh, that's interesting.
Cucks give a free pass to anyone who criticizes them for fear of looking racist or homophobic.
Well, so that lady in Germany is a cuck.
The word originated from white nationalist vocabulary, but it's still widely used by all.
Okay, but that...
So, but they took cuckold and turned it into this new thing.
Go to...
But what is cuck...
Pull up the definition for cuckold.
joe schilling
So this has nothing to do with guys' wives getting banged by gorillas or shit like that?
joe rogan
It does to me.
It's still real to me, damn it.
jamie vernon
There's also like an official definition that is from like an old dictionary from Old English.
joe rogan
Oh.
jamie vernon
It just means a man whose wife is unfaithful.
joe rogan
Yeah, cuckold.
jamie vernon
Which is, yeah...
joe rogan
Yeah, to make a cuckold of.
So, if you, okay, that's how Norton, I think, described it to me.
Like, man, if your wife is out banging other dudes and you know about it but you don't say anything, you become a cuckold.
But there's also, like, cuckold porn where it's, like I said, the guy's there while, like, sobbing in the corner while his wife gets gorilla fucked.
Interesting.
The world is evolving.
It's beautiful.
joe schilling
So it's still open season then for used cuck any way you want?
Because we just did like five definitions.
I still don't have a fucking clue what it means.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean...
joe schilling
Bunch of cucks.
Sensitive cucks.
joe rogan
I like that one definition though.
The vegan who gets on the megaphone.
It's usually a vegan who's been a vegan for like a month too.
Those are my favorite.
Fucking cucks.
Boy, how do you pull out of this and have a normal conversation?
joe schilling
Where do we go from here, Joe?
Where do we go?
joe rogan
So, tell me what it's like working with Scott Coker and what this whole...
I mean, you are the face of Bellator Kickboxing.
They're really promoting you hard.
Like, the Bellator Kickboxing logo has your image.
You know, was it like you throwing a knee, I think?
joe schilling
Is it?
joe rogan
I think.
Or you throwing a punch or is it an elbow?
Something.
But it's your...
I'm seeing, like, so many of these Bellator Kickboxing...
Promos that have your face on it.
joe schilling
Yeah.
It's a good feeling.
joe rogan
Scott Coker's a big fan of kickboxing.
joe schilling
He is.
He is.
Yeah, he's really pushing it.
I think that Viacom and Spike Sports are really pushing it.
They're really getting behind it and they're trying to promote the sport.
I'm blessed that I'm a big part of that and they're trying to do that for me.
Scott Coker and Bellator in general has always treated me really, really well.
Really well.
joe rogan
They need to bail on that name.
joe schilling
Bellator.
You hate it.
joe rogan
I hate it.
joe schilling
I hate it.
joe rogan
There you go.
It's you throwing an elbow.
I'm right.
Bellator kickboxing.
Look at that, brother.
Kazam.
Kapow.
joe schilling
You're not allowed to elbow Bellator kickboxing.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's even weirder.
You're throwing an elbow and you're not allowed to elbow.
Yeah, what the fuck?
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
That just shows how ridiculous it is.
Why don't they just do Muay Thai?
I mean, like, I watch Lion Fight.
They're just doing straight Muay Thai, and it seems pretty popular, although it's on AXS TV. I think the K1 model worked really well.
joe schilling
I think that, you know what I mean?
Why change?
It obviously worked for so long.
joe rogan
Um, because the other stuff works.
Like, if you're gonna strike, if you're just gonna do striking, why not throw elbows?
I mean, why not throw knees in the clinch?
Why not be able to clinch and sweep?
Why not be able to do all the things that make Muay Thai special?
joe schilling
Why not take off MMA gloves?
Why not stomp on people's face?
Why not do the knee drop?
You know what I mean?
Everything can change.
joe rogan
That's right.
Bare knuckle.
Bare Knuckle Muay Thai.
joe schilling
I knew you were going to bring those.
I had to bring it up.
Here we go again.
joe rogan
Does anybody...
Well, I know in Thailand, there's still like...
I saw Sanchai had a fight recently where they were wearing just essentially hand wraps.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
But they're pretty thick hand wraps.
joe schilling
Yeah, it's like a rope.
It's like a bounded fist.
It matches a Thai fight.
They still do that every couple, however long.
joe rogan
What's the benefit of that?
Because it looks like it's still a lot of padding.
joe schilling
I think it's more about the Thai culture and that was like the...
Siam warrior days when they were going to war they had that kind of thing and the monk on that they wear when they walk out for the thing we would wear they would wear that around they wouldn't take that off like you know now they would pull it down and I wear it around their neck like a necklace when they would fight and go to war really but it's still the same thing it's like a cloth that's been blessed it might be your your mother's shirt or something like special and you're taking that with you to battle you would never would never take that off and years and years ago No shit.
joe rogan
When did they start taking it off?
Somebody got Ezekiel choked with it?
joe schilling
Yeah, probably.
I mean, but, uh, you know, that was, uh, Muay Baran is a traditional martial arts style of Muay Thai before it became a sport.
It was Muay Baran.
That's where you see, like, Tony John and those guys just run up you and drop elbows.
Like, the war, um, style of Muay Thai was Muay Baran, which is what those bounded fist things are.
It's more about, like, giving, uh...
Showing their culture, I think.
They're very proud of Muay Thai in Thailand.
It's their national sport.
joe rogan
Well, they should be.
I mean, they figured out the best way to take care of someone's legs.
I mean, they really did figure out the best way to leg kick.
They figured out the best way to throw elbows in the clinch.
I mean, just so many excellent things came out of Muay Thai.
joe schilling
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
It's interesting that this one country...
I mean, pretend Thailand didn't exist.
It's a very small country.
If Thailand didn't exist, like, literally all of combat striking would be very different.
joe schilling
Right.
joe rogan
One of the most influential countries ever, if you really take into consideration, like, what they've contributed to overall combat sports, Thailand is one of the most influential countries ever.
Next to Brazil.
Well, I guess Japan, because...
That's the first and foremost because the Japanese even taught jujitsu to Elio Gracie and Carlos Gracie and then it became Brazilian jujitsu, but Brazil is responsible for a massive amount of evolution of submission fighting, but other than that you got I guess Western wrestling, you know, but that's Russia.
That's a lot of countries where you start talking about wrestling.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then you got boxing.
joe schilling
You got kung fu, which was huge and a huge martial art.
It's not used as predominantly in MMA. So, like, MMA makes the sport, you know, your...
You're talking about Brazil and what it's done for the sport.
Well, that's the sport style of it.
Kung Fu was a huge martial art from China and Judo and Karate.
Before there was guns and bombs and cucks everywhere, there was Vikings who had fucking swords that went across the globe and fucking raped and pillaged and dominated people.
Humans...
Millions of years, however many years ago it was, you know, they were animals.
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
Killing people and going to war and all of these countries made up, you know, samurais and made up their own style or whatever.
But like, I think Burma, which is like right next to Thailand, has like Burmese boxing, which is very similar.
Cambodia has Muay Thai or its own version of those things, you know.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's Bando, you know, that's from Burma too, right?
It's just amazing the style that the Thais use as far as the clinching, the knees in the clinch, and the kicks and elbows in the clinch, and then leg kicks.
They really revolutionized stand-up striking, certainly in MMA. One of the most important aspects of MMA. And, you know, some guys just become so proficient at it.
It's interesting when you watch pure Thai boxing, like Yotsin Klai, or like really high-level Thai guys.
You watch it, you're like, wow, this is like a totally different way of doing it.
Like, they have a very specific type of style.
And you watch the...
When you see the high-level guys come over and fight in the U.S., it's really interesting how successful they are.
joe schilling
Oh, yeah.
And, like, Sanchai, you know, has a very exciting style and a very different style.
He uses a lot of Moybaran techniques.
You know, the cartwheel kick is a Moybaran technique.
So he's a...
In Thailand, the culture of Muay Thai and the level is so unbelievably high that the involvement has really involved.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Sanchai's really light on his feet, too.
He's interesting to watch fight because he's not like...
We think of a Thai fighter as being light with the front leg, kind of plodding forward.
But Sanchai's very light on his feet, real good footwork, moves around a lot, a lot of...
A lot of feints and a lot of, like, Mr. X and very, very fast.
Very fast kicker, too.
Interesting.
Like, there's so many good guys now that have come over from Thailand.
Young guys, too, like Joe Natawat.
You know, it's a really good time to watch just even straight Muay Thai.
joe schilling
Yeah, I mean, you got guys with 200 fights that were trained by guys with 200 fights that were trained by guys with 200 fights that were trained with guys by 200 fights, you know, so it's...
You know, and they start when they're seven years old and that's this their way of life and their culture and their, you know Muay Thai is like in their blood and in their DNA and their You know, I have 90 fights somewhere on that 90 fights like man.
That's a lot of fights.
I'm like that ain't shit.
That's like a 15 year old in Thailand.
unidentified
But for a boxer, that's crazy, right?
joe rogan
Find a boxer that has 90 fights and it's pretty rare.
joe schilling
Mm-hmm Well, I mean, like, De La Hoya had like 150 imageries.
joe rogan
Did he really?
Yeah.
What is the most anybody's ever had in MMA, I think, is Travis Fulton.
I think Travis Fulton has like 300 fights?
I think he has 300 fights.
unidentified
Jesus.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Jeremy Horn, I think, had 200 or close to it.
joe schilling
Yeah, Jeremy Horn, that was who I thought.
joe rogan
I saw Jeremy Horn fight in this janky little fucking card once in, uh, somewhere in California.
I forget where he went, some Indian casino or something like that.
Where you weren't allowed to punch.
You were allowed to slap.
Slap to the face, but you were allowed to kick to the face.
And it was like when MMA was illegal.
joe schilling
Like pancreation or something?
joe rogan
Yeah.
When MMA was illegal, there was like a bunch of loopholes that they were exploiting.
Because you couldn't fight MMA in California for a long time.
So they came up with all sorts of different ways of doing it.
joe schilling
They're like, oh, you have to throw seven kicks.
joe rogan
They didn't have that.
But they had slaps.
That was another thing that existed in Japan in the early days, the Pancre style.
Which is real weird to watch now.
Boss Rootin was the guy who figured out how to hack that though.
He hacked it.
Because he threw palms like punches.
Where everybody else was throwing bitch slaps.
Boss Rootin was knocking guys out with palm strikes.
Because he was throwing like palm uppercuts and palm hooks.
He figured out how to hack it.
That crazy fucker.
joe schilling
Kick to the liver.
joe rogan
The liver kick!
Yeah, he's another guy who paid the price physically.
His craziness and his madness in his pursuit, because he would talk about on the podcast how he would just shoot cortisone into his joints and his shins and just numb everything up.
And lidocaine, he'd shoot lidocaine into his shins.
joe schilling
Lidocaine?
joe rogan
Yeah, lidocaine's a numbing agent.
It's like the gay cousin of cocaine.
It doesn't get you high, but it just leaves you numb and confused.
joe schilling
Gay cousin of cocaine.
joe rogan
Yeah, I had lidocaine in my nose once when I had my nose operated on, and it's interesting.
It makes you feel weak and disoriented, but you're not drugged up.
You're like, something's wrong with me.
Like I could drive, I could walk, I could talk to people, but I'm like, I'm just not...
joe schilling
So he would inject it into his shins because he was injured or just because he wouldn't feel it when he kicked?
joe rogan
I'd have to ask Boss again, get the full story.
But I know injecting cortisone into all of his joints just wrecked him.
There's no cartilage in any of his joints.
His knees are completely shot.
It's all bone on bone.
He was actually going to get him resurfaced.
You ever seen when someone gets it resurfaced?
My friend Steve Graham had his knee done.
I'll show you a picture.
You're going to get grossed out.
He was on the Olympic ski team.
Yeah, why am I fucking aheming so much?
He was on the U.S. ski team, I should say.
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
He wasn't in the Olympics, but he was a top flight skier and had upwards of 20 operations on his knee.
Yeah, I'm not exaggerating.
And this is what his knees look like now.
They resurfaced the inside of his knee because he was bone on bone.
So they put steel caps over the joints.
So the way his tibia and fibula intersect with each other.
joe schilling
And then I'm assuming like they don't rust or...
joe rogan
No, it's stainless steel.
joe schilling
...so that it'll slide over each other.
joe rogan
Yeah, and that white shit is like an artificial meniscus, like an artificial padding in between the steel.
joe schilling
How's it work?
Is it good?
He's happy?
joe rogan
It's all right, you know, I mean he's a crazy fucker.
He's in pain all the time But he's just one of those dudes Some people just know how to suck it up.
What did you have done to your knee?
joe schilling
I tore My MCL ripped my MCL like detached it from my shin and then that allowed my knee and I tore my ACL in half and then I partially tore my LCL, so there's like four tenons and you hold your knee like two of them were completely torn and then one of them was like pretty fucking close to being completely torn.
joe rogan
Wow, what happened there?
joe schilling
I took a fight on short notice and in Vegas we fought a Chinese guy and it was like the San Shao I didn't even know what San Shao was they were like they told me the rules like five minutes before the fight in the back backstage and I was throwing it went to throw a knee and as I was like standing on one foot and As I was standing on one foot, throwing the knee, he kicked right under my knee, and it shifted so hard that it just ripped my...
blew everything out.
joe rogan
Oh, wow.
joe schilling
And then, uh...
Being the savage that I am, I took the eight count and stood up, and I was like...
I was trying to fight anyway.
And I'm like, oh, he's gonna kick my leg.
So I'm like, oh, I know what I'm gonna do.
So as he runs to kick my leg, I jump over it, like, ha-ha!
But I landed on the one that was already fucked.
Went out again.
And then, uh...
If it wasn't completely torn at that point, it definitely was after that.
But yeah, I did that.
And then that same fight, my other knee ended up getting a quarter-sized piece of cartilage torn out and was floating around in the joint.
It was a rough fight.
It was a rough thousand dollars back then, Joe.
joe rogan
A thousand bucks to fight.
joe schilling
I was out for a year.
God damn.
So I was out for a year and when I came back I just went on a terror.
I went on my belts.
I went like 10-0 I think after that.
Immediately after that.
joe rogan
What kind of surgery did they do?
They had to do cadavers and all that jazz?
joe schilling
Yeah, cadavers and scope.
I don't even have that.
You can't even tell if you look at my name.
It's not even scars.
joe rogan
That's amazing.
joe schilling
Dr. Mora in Orange, City of Orange, did an amazing job.
And he fought with the insurance company for me because they didn't want to do the cadaver thing.
What they do is they'll actually cut a sliver out of your patella or your hamstring or your patella tendon, which is the big fat tendon that goes down the front of your knee.
joe rogan
I had that done.
joe schilling
And they would cut a sliver out of that, take that piece, put it in your ACL, and then wait for that to scar over.
And I'm like, so I already have a weak knee, and you're gonna fucking take one of the only tendons I have left and make that one weak again?
I didn't go for it.
So we did the cadaver thing, which is crazy.
It's like a dead body part, obviously.
I guess once they put it in, your body mutates it and it takes a while to get soft again and then your body will take it on as its own.
joe rogan
Well, your body, it acts as a scaffolding.
It's not like the cadaver itself stays in your body.
Your body uses the tissue that the cadaver graft is on to sort of proliferate with its own cells.
So that's why they use an Achilles tendon because it's larger.
I had that done on my right knee.
It was way quicker recovery.
The left knee, I had both ACLs done.
The left knee, I did the patella thing.
Like, way back in...
I think it was 1993 or 4. So it was back in the day.
They didn't do the cadaver back then.
They only did the patella tendon graft.
Or they did, even worse, the hamstring.
Which is a real bad one.
Because then your hamstring has to recover.
And they just take a chunk out of your hamstring.
And then just fucking bolt it into place.
I think that has to, the same thing.
Your body has to proliferate it with cells and, you know, it has to make, you gotta make sure the blood supplies work in and it's a lot of work.
joe schilling
Now they can do like PRP and all this cool stuff.
You were talking about that orange shit last time I was here.
joe rogan
Oh, now they're doing stem cell treatments for a lot of people.
I know Daniel Cormier had that done.
He was really close to getting knee surgery, had some stem cells in it, and heals right up.
joe schilling
Heals right up.
joe rogan
It's just amazing.
What they're finding with stem cells is that it can take on The form, especially if they're doing it from women's placenta, like a woman who gets a cesarean section, they take a young girl who's getting a cesarean section, they take her placenta, and they take the stem cells out of that, and they can inject it into various areas of your body, and it can become anything.
It can become a tendon, it could become a ligament, it could repair torn muscles.
It's really interesting what they're able to do.
But there's also some danger, apparently, especially if you go to Mexico.
Some dude went to a bunch of different places.
I think he went to like six different places to get stem cells because he had a back problem.
He started growing some weird tumor in his back that was like pressing on his spine and when they cut the tumor out they realized it was not his tissue that it was like someone else's tissue was growing in his body Like, somebody...
Like, whoever's stem cell.
joe schilling
Yeah, he's, like, trying to get, like, uterus.
You got any uteruses laying around?
And they need some stem cells off of that.
And they're like, oh, yeah, give him that fucking tumor we took out of that guy.
It's a stem cell, right?
It'll work the same.
joe rogan
Well, if you're going to Russia or Mexico...
unidentified
You get, like, a boil cut off, and they're like, oh, stupidness shit.
joe rogan
Oh, boy, stuff it in there.
I mean, I don't...
I'm obviously not a doctor, so I don't know exactly what they did.
In these other countries that they're trying to pass off as stem cells.
I mean, who knows what the fuck they injected this guy with.
But it used to be you'd have to go to foreign countries to get stem cell treatments.
Because, you know, they weren't exactly sure.
Apparently he helped this guy once, and then it started to go away.
Like, whatever benefit he was getting started going away.
And then he's like, I'm just going to go on a fucking mad tear all across the world and get stem cells.
Yeah.
Third World Stem Cell Tour.
joe schilling
I can't believe it didn't work out for him.
I don't know.
joe rogan
It's fucked.
They cut like a fucking, like a cod out of his back.
joe schilling
And then they probably, to fix that, they gave him like American stem cells and everything's good.
joe rogan
I think he's done.
I think homeboy's toast.
And he's definitely saying, I think his quote was, don't go in the future.
I would advise people strongly not to go with anecdotal evidence.
joe schilling
Solid advice right there.
unidentified
But...
joe rogan
You know, it's helped me a lot.
My shoulder was pretty fucked and I got stem cells and it's fucking fantastic now.
Yeah, feels great.
I think it's a little sore sometimes after a hard workout, but I just ice it up and it's good to go.
Like all the strength is 100%.
They're doing it a lot on pro athletes now.
There's a lot of athletes that are getting it done.
Whereas, you know, there's very little way to get certain areas to heal without taking just massive amounts of time off or surgery.
You know, but...
When you're talking about your kind of injury, that's just par for the course, right?
With your business.
joe schilling
I mean, yeah.
Everything.
All of my joints hurt.
My elbows are sore as shit right now.
My knuckles hurt.
My hands hurt.
My chest still hurts from that last man standing tournament that I did a couple years ago.
My neck gets a...
joe rogan
Your chest still hurts?
You had a broken sternum, right?
joe schilling
Well, I don't know.
I guess it was like a...
Did you ever get an MRI? I got an MRI. I did injections.
I did all kinds of stuff.
unidentified
I still have this...
joe schilling
It's like a hematoma that's in between the rib cartilage or something, and it swells out all the time.
It's still swollen.
There's like a golf ball right there.
But it would get so bad that it would swell up like a fucking tennis ball, and then that would pinch off all the nerves running down my arm.
Oh, terrific!
joe rogan
And the only way to fix that is probably to open you up like a fish Cut that out.
Hope it doesn't come back.
joe schilling
Ibuprofen on the daily.
joe rogan
Is that what you're taking?
joe schilling
Yep.
Pretty much all the time.
joe rogan
You know what, man?
I had a friend, or I have a friend, who's an ultramarathon runner.
And he was taking ibuprofen every morning, and he was also taking it at night.
He was taking 800 milligrams in the morning, 800 milligrams at night.
joe schilling
Sounds...
joe rogan
And then I had this woman on who's a doctor, Dr. Rhonda Patrick.
She's a clinical researcher, and she was talking about the dangers of non-steroidal anti-inflammatories.
They cause high blood pressure, they can cause strokes in some people, especially when you're using them on a daily basis.
She's like, there's a lot of people that are using non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, and actually there's a fucked up loop that's going on, and this is the loop.
When you take non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, it actually causes inflammation because it fucks with the gut flora in your body, especially if you take it on a regular basis, which in turn causes inflammation, which you're taking non-steroidal anti-inflammatories to deal with the inflammation.
So the pills that you're taking to deal with joint pain sometimes are causing joint pain.
And that's with my friend Cam Haynes.
He was running a half a marathon every day.
He still is.
Because he's gearing up for this Bigfoot 200 that's in August.
He's going to run 200 miles in 48 hours.
He ran 24 hours last weekend.
He ran 102 miles to gear up for it, too.
joe schilling
Unbelievable.
joe rogan
But he got off the ibuprofen after that podcast, and he goes, I've never felt better.
He goes, it's amazing.
All the aches and pains that I was taking ibuprofen for, they all went away.
joe schilling
So what does he take for them?
joe rogan
He's not taking shit.
He's not taking shit.
He's just eating healthy.
joe schilling
Oh, he's eating healthy.
joe rogan
How bad do you eat?
joe schilling
Not that bad.
joe rogan
Not that bad?
joe schilling
Come on, Joe.
Can we just stop with the cigarettes already?
unidentified
Come on.
joe rogan
I tell you this because I love you, man.
I'm just trying to help you out.
joe schilling
No, I don't eat that bad.
I have a food prep sponsor that gives me really good shit.
joe rogan
Oh, that's right.
I saw that on your Instagram.
That looks super healthy.
You get all those pre-prep meals.
That makes it easy, huh?
joe schilling
Oh, it's so good.
It's hot sauce.
All I need.
A minute 45 in the microwave.
joe rogan
Nice.
So you get it like every week?
joe schilling
Oh yeah, during my fight camps he gives me like every week I'll go and pick him up.
joe rogan
How do people get a hold of this guy?
joe schilling
Is he on a website?
I get a hold of him through my Instagram or on Instagram.
It's Chef Raul.
joe rogan
Chef Raul.
joe schilling
No, The Meal Plan Man.
joe rogan
Look up The Meal Plan Man.
joe schilling
Chef Raul, The Meal Plan Man.
joe rogan
Chef Raul, The Meal Plan Man.
Yeah, there's a lot of those guys.
A lot of MMA fighters have those sponsors that do that.
God, that makes a big difference.
joe schilling
Oh, that's so good.
joe rogan
Healthy foods is so fucking important.
It's like, duh, of course.
But you really are what you eat, man.
I mean, it sounds so cliche.
We don't think about it because food tastes good, and you feel like, ah, what's it going to hurt if I have a fucking cookie?
Your body's made out of everything you put in it.
If you eat cookies all the time, you fuck, you become a cookie.
You become the product of all the bullshit, non-nutritional food that you stuff in your fat face.
joe schilling
He's got grass-fed beef and bison and fucking all the good stuff.
joe rogan
Nice.
That's nice.
Do you take supplements?
Do you take vitamins?
joe schilling
I take everything the Onnit sends me, so that's been good.
I'm addicted to AlphaBrain now.
If I don't take AlphaBrain, I'm just like, why am I so dumb today?
I took a bunch so I could be on here.
joe rogan
I never used to take it before workouts, but now I take it before workouts.
I've found that it's...
Because I always think, well, that doesn't have anything to do with mental energy.
But it has a lot to do, especially when you're fatigued.
Mental energy...
I find that my workouts have more energy when I take AlphaBrain and I take ShroomTech together.
I stack them.
Aubrey said that's what all the pro athletes are doing, football players and shit.
They stack them.
There's a lot of good stuff today that you can find that really does help you.
Essential fatty acids are a big one.
I think that's almost non-negotiable.
I think you need essential fatty acids.
I think you need fish oils, a giant supplement.
I think it's so important.
So important for your joints.
It's important for your brain.
It's important for the development of healthy muscle.
So that fish oil makes a big difference to me.
And then also anti-inflammation stuff, like curcumin, I guess you say it?
Which comes from turmeric.
That's a big one, too.
You know, all these natural anti-inflammatories that are not bad for you.
joe schilling
Yeah, I could see the gut flora problem from the ibuprofen.
joe rogan
It's a big deal.
joe schilling
My fucking stomach's always fucked up.
joe rogan
Yeah, man.
It's bad for you.
joe schilling
I've been taking ibuprofen...
About 600 milligrams twice a day.
unidentified
Oh, dude!
joe schilling
Since I can't remember.
Since I can't remember.
joe rogan
You gotta stop.
Can we get you to stop?
Can I get you to stop all these things?
Is it possible?
Can I help you?
joe schilling
Sure, man.
Make my body stop hurting and I'll fucking do it.
joe rogan
Well, how much time do you have off now between fights?
joe schilling
I probably got some time now.
Probably three or four months, I think.
joe rogan
So, do you have anything scheduled?
joe schilling
I think my next one's in September in Hungary, I think.
joe rogan
Okay, so they have something.
Is this a Bellator event as well?
Oh, so Bellator's going international.
joe schilling
Yes, sir.
joe rogan
How many international events have they had?
I know they had a London one, right?
joe schilling
They had the London one.
Their first Bellator kickboxing event was in Italy.
I watched it a couple months ago.
Then they have Hungary, and then in December is Florence.
Oh, nice.
Glory had fights all over the world, but I was always the American guy.
I was always the LA card or the American card.
It's really cool that Bellator is going to have me see the world a little bit.
joe rogan
That's beautiful.
You had a falling out with Glory, huh?
joe schilling
Yeah, we just went our separate ways.
joe rogan
But you were saying that they were telling the commentators to talk shit about you?
Is that a speculation?
Can't talk about it?
joe schilling
I think I was asked nicely not to talk about them anymore.
What did you think watching my fight with Glory?
Did you think the commentators were...
What was your opinion on that?
joe rogan
Well, see, commentating is interesting because being someone who's done it before, there are things that you see on television when you're watching it.
Honestly, the best view in the house is your house.
That's the best view.
When you're watching fights, because when you're watching kickboxing or whether you're watching MMA... When you're watching on television, you're seeing it, like, inside the cage and inside the ring, and you're seeing it from the right angle.
Like, there's a lot of times where I'm watching a fight, first of all, I have the best seat in the house.
You can't get any better.
I'm touching the actual ground that the people are fighting on.
It's in front of me.
There's a table, and then right in front of that, I can reach up and I can touch the cage, okay?
So you can't get any closer.
I miss a lot of shit, and I miss it.
joe schilling
Is there a screen for you to watch, too?
joe rogan
Just two screens.
But I like to watch the fight.
I want to watch the actual fight.
And when the fight is playing in front of me, it's like I'm looking up, and then I'm looking down at the screen.
I'm looking up, and then I'm looking down at the screen.
And sometimes I have to do commentary when I'm down at the screen.
But I want to watch the actual action playing out.
And when that is going on, sometimes you don't see everything.
But I feel like there's some subtleties that you see when you're looking at a guy.
There's some things that you see in movement where your brain...
I've got to think that all the years of...
Watching martial arts and doing martial arts my brains chunked a bunch of information and I see Certain traits and I see trends and I see things and you see them when you're actually looking at the person's body better than you do if you're looking at a monitor a video representation of it but Like, there's sometimes the ref's in the way, and I don't see what's going on.
Like, the ref's here, and they're right behind the ref, and so I might miss something.
Or their back is to me, and they get hit with an uppercut, and you don't see what they get hit with.
There's a lot of times you miss a few things.
So, taking that into consideration...
I know that these guys were sitting ringside and they're watching it through the ropes and they're seeing it live and sometimes you don't catch anything.
But I did think that the commentary was a little one-sided.
And I did think that there was a lot of things that you were doing that they weren't either picking up on or they weren't giving you credit for.
And in all fairness, you told me about that before I saw the fight.
And so I saw the fight and I was watching.
I was like, wow, this is an interesting way they're talking about this fight.
You were right.
I mean, you put it in my head and then I watched it.
But I tried to be as objective as possible.
But yeah, I didn't think they were giving you credit for a lot of the shit you were doing.
joe schilling
I just thought that the way that I would...
joe rogan
That is possible, man.
No one's ever done that in the UFC. No one's ever come up to me and said, hey, hype this guy up, or hey, talk shit about this guy.
It's never happened, ever.
But that's the UFC. I could definitely see it possibly happening in other organizations.
Have you felt that?
joe schilling
I just thought that the way that I was talked about in general had changed dramatically in the last couple fights.
joe rogan
Well, that was what was weird.
joe schilling
Ariel Helwani came up to me and said the same thing last time I saw him.
I was like, Well, they sure talk about you really different, though.
joe rogan
Maybe Ariel had an inside mole.
Maybe had a mole inside fucking Gloria as well.
joe schilling
But, you know, it is what it is.
And, you know, Gloria is doing a lot for the sport in this country and worldwide.
joe rogan
They certainly are.
joe schilling
I wish them the best.
joe rogan
Yeah, and I do too.
I'm a big fan.
But, you know, they were doing weird shit like on your bio instead of all your accomplishments, 95 professional fights, all that.
No, it was like kicked out of his house when he was 17. Fucking loser.
You know, forced to go to four different high schools.
Everybody hated him.
His feet smell.
It was like a lot of...
joe schilling
It was like a rap sheet, you know?
joe rogan
They were definitely painting you out to be, but that's also, in their defense, I mean, they're trying to develop personalities for people to tune into.
You know, here's this guy who comes out with fucking prison pants on, with L.A. on them.
You know, it's, I guess...
joe schilling
I mean, why develop or promote the fact that he was the first American to ever win a global combat tournament, or a three-time world champion, or holds the record for the fastest knockout in combat sports?
You know, why promote any of those accomplishments?
joe rogan
No, that's not important.
I want to know how many times you kicked out of school.
joe schilling
Yeah.
Or how old you were when your mom kicked you out of that family home.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's what I want to hear about.
joe schilling
One of the odd jobs that you worked in your Tough Man contests.
joe rogan
Well, in Bellator's, not defense, but to their credit, they did a great job with that piece they did on you.
joe schilling
Yeah, I was really proud of that.
It was cool to...
When you're in it, you don't realize what you've actually done, but what I think I've been a part of with Can't Stop Crazy for the sport and the growth in the sport here in this country, from Lion Fight to Glory to now Bellator Kickboxing and being where I am...
The weight is on my shoulders, so to speak, with pushing this new brand and showing high-level kickboxing to the world and putting on exciting fights is proud.
joe rogan
Which is why we gotta get you off the fucking ibuprofen, get you off the cigarettes.
joe schilling
Trust me, the cigarettes, yeah.
The ibuprofen is like a necessity.
joe rogan
No, no, no, no, no.
You think it's a necessity.
You think it's a necessity.
I'm telling you, I think that there's a real possibility that the inflammation that's being caused by taking this stuff and fucking with your gut flora is actually making your joints hurt even more than they would have normally.
I think it's very possible.
Do you have the Onnit Total Gut Health?
Are you taking that yet?
joe schilling
I don't know.
joe rogan
It's probiotics.
It's a new...
joe schilling
I think I have the krill oil.
joe rogan
That's different.
That's good, too.
That's essential fatty acids.
Essentially, it's a more potent form of fish oil or a more bioavailable, a really good bioavailable form, I should say, because even regular fish oil is excellent.
This total gut health is different probiotics and enzymes that is really good for digesting food, the enzymes, and also absorbing nutrients through your food with the enzymes.
But the probiotic aspect of it is very important.
I've been big on probiotics lately.
I eat a lot of kimchi.
Do you like that stuff?
Like spicy Korean cabbage?
I love that shit.
I eat a lot of that.
I eat a lot of raw sauerkraut.
I've been eating a lot of that.
joe schilling
I drink a lot of kombucha.
joe rogan
That's good, too.
That's real good.
Yeah, I love that stuff.
I love that GT's kombucha, the stuff that you have to have an ID to buy.
We have that shit here, Jamie?
We have some?
Bust out two bottles from me and Joe Schilling, would you?
But this stuff is more than one half of 1% alcohol, so you have to have a license, a driver's license.
It has to show you're 21 to drink kombucha.
Which is ridiculous.
unidentified
Stupid.
joe rogan
I also buy this stuff at Air One.
You take a shot of it every day.
It's like super fucking fermented cabbage with cayenne pepper in it.
unidentified
It's like...
joe rogan
You take it, it's like...
But it's super good.
joe schilling
How is it, Joe?
joe rogan
And kefir.
I've been drinking a lot of kefir.
I drink a big glass of that a day.
joe schilling
Kefir.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Goat's milk.
I take goat's milk kefir, which is like a super powerful form of acidophilus, like cultures.
But what I've found over the last year, year and a half from...
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Look at that.
It's like we're drinking beers here.
This is my favorite flavor.
This is gingerade.
Is that what it is?
That's what it's called.
Yeah.
Gingerade.
joe schilling
Gingerade.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Organic Raw GT's Classic.
You gotta get the Classic.
The Classic has the black label.
The black label is to let you know it's fucking dangerous.
It's one half of one percent alcohol.
joe schilling
Watch out now.
Watch out now.
joe rogan
Cheers.
joe schilling
Cheers, buddy.
joe rogan
I love this stuff.
But anyway, gut health.
Probiotics.
It's everything, man.
So important.
So important for your immune system.
So important for everything.
It's even your mood.
They think your personality is partially shaped by your gut floor.
joe schilling
I love that new mood.
joe rogan
That's great, too.
joe schilling
I take that stuff a lot.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And, you know, just 5-HTP, folks.
I mean, that's what it is.
5-HTP. But, you know, New Mood has L-tryptophan also, which converts to 5-HTP, which converts to serotonin.
So you get sort of a time-release method, a time-release effect.
But all that stuff is very good for your brain.
They're all the building blocks for human neurotransmitters.
That's what AlphaBrain is.
That's what New Mood is.
But New Mood specifically is the building blocks for serotonin.
joe schilling
Right.
joe rogan
All that stuff's legit.
They even tell people that are on SSRIs to not take 5-HTP. What's SSRI? Serotonin uptake re-inhibitors.
Antidepressants.
You know, things like...
Tell them not to take 5-HTP? They tell them not to take it, because then you can get what's called serotonin syndrome, where your body has too much serotonin in it.
Sort of like when guys are on steroids and they get...
Same thing.
It's like your body's like, what is all this fucking serotonin doing in here?
It creates an imbalance.
They just don't work with each other well.
Neil Brennan, a friend of mine who's a comic, was the first guy that I ever met that was on 5-HTP. And then when he got on SSRIs, they told him to get off the 5-HTP. Like, there's too much going on here.
joe schilling
Oh, so the antidepressants, that's what they do is they create serotonin?
joe rogan
I do.
Well, it helps it.
It helps your body establish a better mood, and I don't know exactly what the...
It's been described to me, but I can't really recite it off memory, but serotonin obviously is a big factor in the way you feel.
joe schilling
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
For sure.
And taking things like new mood, you know, especially like athletes like you, Fighters, you're constantly draining yourself.
I mean, you are just, I mean, I've seen your workouts, dude.
You just fucking empty it all out, and your body's just like...
It's done.
And then you have to re-gear up, so your body has to produce everything again.
Your endocrine system is taxed, everything is taxed, and you have to get all the right food in it.
That's why fucking with any of that, like...
Taking the ibuprofen, fucking cigarettes, shitty food, all that stuff is a massive effect on someone who does something that you do.
You need every edge you can get, man.
You're in the craziest business that you can be when it comes to professional athletics.
You're in the combat sports business.
You're in the business...
Arguably the craziest of the combat sports because it's all just throwing bones, man.
There's no wrestling.
There's no take.
There's no fucking lay and pray.
There's no humping someone on the ground and holding them down and noogieing them in the head.
You can't do any of that.
You got to throw bones.
You know, that's a wild way to make a living.
You need all the advantages, all of them.
I know you were working with Nick Kurson for a while.
joe schilling
Yep.
joe rogan
Are you going to do that again?
joe schilling
I didn't work with him this last week.
He was with Brevonikoff and he was just really busy.
Lately I've been, you know, four week notice my camps have been really short for both my last two fights.
So I just hadn't had a chance to work with him.
I worked with him like two or three times for this last fight.
But yeah, the guy's amazing.
I can't say enough good things about him.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker.
joe schilling
Fucking awesome.
Fucking awesome.
joe rogan
He knows so much too.
joe schilling
Just so different, you know?
Like when I used to train and do like strength conditioning and working about all that stuff, it was like about how hard you worked.
And every day it was, you know...
I've never had a session with Nick where I left and I was like, oh fuck.
They were always hard and difficult, but they were never breaking me down.
The results and the increase every week was really noticeable and impressive.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's the intelligent approach, and that's the approach that a lot of trainers are using now, is they're giving you enough work so that your body improves and recovers, but not so much that your body can't improve.
So this old stupid idea that a lot of us have, and I used to have, you gotta get out of there like you fucking, you can barely walk.
unidentified
You gotta leave it all in the gym.
joe rogan
But that doesn't give you a chance to recover.
joe schilling
Right, and then like rest days, like...
I used to just crush myself on Monday, and then the rest of the week I'd be dragging ass trying to make it.
By the time Friday I rolled around, it was like, now your last three workouts of the week weren't that productive, you know what I mean?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, I've been really into that a lot lately because I started listening to Pavel Tatsulin.
He's the guy that brought kettlebells to America.
Badass Russian dude and he has some really interesting ideas about strength and conditioning and one of the things that's that he said that I think is most important is That the way you're training and especially training with kettlebells in particular What you what you're trying to do is you're trying to give your body work so that your body feels like Like,
it can recover and you slowly build upon these things and think of them as a skill.
Like, he's like, strength is a skill.
And you're not trying to leave yourself completely exhausted and blown out and all your joints are fried and all your muscles are just rubber.
Like you're trying to what he calls grease the groove, which means like slowly build this up and do it like instead instead of sets of like 25 reps like CrossFit style.
He's like everything more than five reps is bullshit.
He's like everything more than five reps is bodybuilding.
He's like you should be doing like Heavyweight, five reps.
And if you can do ten reps, do five.
You don't need to work to failure.
He doesn't believe in working to failure.
I'm doing a bad job of explaining his philosophies, but Tim Ferriss had two podcasts with him where you can listen to it.
I'll send them to you.
They're excellent.
joe schilling
I think that's kind of similar to the way Nick, at least the way that I see Nick's training.
It's like trying to send a neurological signal to my body to grow or to change or to move.
I don't need to destroy it to do that.
I don't need to break down my muscle and it has to rebuild itself.
It's like altitude training.
When you go to high altitude, your body has...
Picks up a signal that there's not enough oxygen in this air, I need to make more red blood cells.
So your body sends a neurological signal to create more red blood cells from your blood marrow or whatever.
So your body's like a computer and you're just trying to get, okay, I want to be a little faster, I want to be a little whatever, and I'm doing enough work to send that signal to make my body adapt.
You know what I mean?
As opposed to, I want to be faster, so I'm going to just destroy my legs until I can't walk for a week, and then it's going to build back faster.
joe rogan
I mean, that does work.
joe schilling
It does, obviously.
joe rogan
But it doesn't work good.
It doesn't work the right way.
The right way to do it really is to, like, and I've been getting great results with Pavel's methods with doing lighter, or not lighter weights, but Lower reps.
Lower reps and, like, if I could do eight or nine reps, I do five.
I do five and I end it there.
And, like, when I'm done, I feel good.
Like, I'm done with my workout.
I know I put in, you know, 45 minutes or more of hard work, but I don't feel, like, broken down.
Whereas before, when I was, like, sort of structuring it off of my own ideas, I would just have these fucking brutal workouts where I would just...
Everything was to failure.
Everything was...
joe schilling
Right.
joe rogan
And then when it was over, I just felt like a zombie for the rest of the day.
joe schilling
Yeah, and then now your serotonin levels, by the time you're three days in, I'm like, fuck, I need some new mood, because I don't feel like I want to do this shit anymore, and you're not going to perform as well, and you're not going to, you know...
joe rogan
Caffeine.
joe schilling
It's all a big thing, yeah.
joe rogan
I was chugging 20-ounce Starbucks like there was nothing.
I'd go to sleep.
I could take a 20-ounce Starbucks and...
joe schilling
It doesn't work anymore.
It doesn't do anything!
joe rogan
Yeah, you can get to the point where your body is just, it doesn't matter.
Stimulants, whatever.
You just toast.
Yeah, there's a lot of science to athletics, to sports training with athletes today that just didn't exist 10, 20 years ago, and take advantage of that.
joe schilling
Meat and water, right?
You had to drink lots of water, eat lots of red meat.
That was your supplement base, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah, nobody knew shit.
I mean...
joe schilling
Meat and iron.
joe rogan
Well, yeah, nobody knew anything about, like, what's the proper way to eat?
When should you eat?
Should you eat five times a day?
Should you...
There was this warrior diet craze where people were like, you only eat one meal a day, because that's what a warrior did.
They would only eat once a day.
Like, um, you're not a warrior.
You're not a Viking.
Like, you're not a fucking barbarian.
Like, look, you got a refrigerator.
It's right there.
Have something to eat, you fuck.
Like, what are you...
It's weird because it's...
joe schilling
You fucking...
What was it?
Cuck?
joe rogan
You fucking cuck?
You goddamn cucker?
joe schilling
You eat a fucking steak.
joe rogan
We need to come up with our own insult.
Come up with a name that you can call certain types of people.
We'll work on that.
That's for another time.
But it's interesting that nutritional advice that people would give you just 10 years ago isn't valid anymore.
joe schilling
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
You know, the ideas of absorption of certain fats and essential fatty acids that they had, especially plant-based stuff, just a few years ago.
They're realizing, like, yeah, this stuff exists in these plant forms, but it's not as bioavailable as it is in animal forms.
And this is, like, really recent stuff.
joe schilling
Like the food pyramid shit, you know?
Like, it's just...
joe rogan
I was talking about that yesterday.
joe schilling
Margarine and then butter.
I can't believe it's not butter, but now it's not butter.
joe rogan
Margarine's fucking terrible for you.
joe schilling
It's plastic.
It's one molecule away from plastic.
That's what they were telling people to do.
The food pyramid said that you should have like 300 grams of carbohydrates a day.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're supposed to eat bread and pasta.
Now they're saying, no, no, no, no, no.
I was reading...
joe schilling
And then, like, you get...
Ugh, this is so stupid.
Cancer.
Like, oh, have you cut out all of the shit that they've been telling you since you were a child that you were supposed to have?
Which the food pyramid was based around the economy.
They need people to buy the fucking oats and grains that we grow here.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a lot of that.
I mean, it certainly must have some influence, especially with corn subsidies and all that jazz.
Did you ever see that movie King Corn?
joe schilling
No.
joe rogan
Dude, watch that documentary.
It's crazy.
It's about how much corn we eat and how corn is subsidized, how they pay people to grow corn.
The government pays farmers to grow corn.
If the government didn't subsidize corn production in this company, corn agriculture would fucking collapse.
There's so many of these people that are reliant, these agricultural farms that are growing corn, reliant on government subsidies in order to stay afloat.
It's weird, and corn's in everything.
I was having beef jerky the other day, and my wife was reading the ingredients.
She goes, you know this has corn in it?
I went, what?
joe schilling
Corn syrup is like fucking everything, right?
Corn protein.
joe rogan
Corn protein in fucking beef jerky.
Fucking corn heads.
That's a new one.
joe schilling
Corn heads.
joe rogan
No, it's not gonna work.
joe schilling
But corn protein and beef jerky.
Isn't beef the protein that you think would be in the beef jerky?
joe rogan
Well, it must have something to do with the flavoring or something to do with the sauce that they, you know, they marinate them in teriyaki or whatever the fuck they do when they make it.
But there was corn protein in beef jerky.
How about just beef jerky?
joe schilling
I've seen it all now, Joe.
joe rogan
I have seen it all, too.
So what's the plan now?
When you come off of a fight like that, what do you do?
Just chillax for a little bit?
joe schilling
Yeah, I had two back-to-back fights anyway, and I'm looking forward to having a little time off, relaxing a little bit, getting my mind wrapped around what happened, why it happened, where I go from here.
joe rogan
Do you move around your training camps at all?
Do you bring in new trainers?
Do you ever go to places and spend a little bit of time working with someone different?
joe schilling
No, I'm sure I'll be up in Stockton a lot, hoping Nate get ready for his fight with Connor now.
It's always good to work with those guys.
I want to get some boxing rounds in with Richard Perez while I'm up there.
Nice.
Not a lot, you know.
I think my team is really solid, and I think that's where I need to be.
I was at American Top Team before, well, when Saki Koff knocked me out the first time, I was at American Top Team working on my wrestling and stuff, and it was a cool experience.
I don't think it was the best experience for me.
Just being away from my sports system and my coaches and my team, and I think that was a mistake to jump ship, so to speak, and go train someplace else.
joe rogan
Yeah, it seems to me that there's a lot of comforts of home that help relax you and just being in the same environment all the time is probably real good for you in terms of like your comfort level, recovery, and being in your own home.
joe schilling
Yeah, and I think just your coaches and being with somebody that's trained you for 10 years and he knows what you're thinking, you know what he thinks.
He knows how you are, what you need to hear, how hard to work you, things like that, you know?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Knows when you're tired, when you're off.
They have a good understanding of you.
Yeah, and I like the fact that you've gone away from the MMA and decided to go straight back to kickboxing.
Because, you know, what are you, 32 now?
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, it's just like...
It's not...
You're so good at kickboxing.
It's such a...
You know, it's such an emerging sport, too.
And with this opportunity with Bellator, too, I think it's a really good idea.
Because, like, learning all the wrestling and learning all the fucking submissions and takedown defense and all that stuff just...
It's a whole other experience.
It's a whole other journey to get on.
joe schilling
Yeah.
I think it's too late for that.
It'd be like if I went into a boxing career now.
You know what I mean?
Right.
You can throw and you can take some shots, but you don't have 150 amateur boxing fights.
You know what I mean?
unidentified
Right.
joe schilling
You're not going to catch up.
joe rogan
Right, and your body's programmed to do certain things already.
Like, your body's programmed for certain distances.
Like, your body's like, kick him!
Oh, you can't kick him.
joe schilling
That's one of my problems with MMA, was that my body has been programmed that when we're in...
When we get close, and we're in a clinch, so to speak, I pull you into the clinch, I get to that.
When I do that in MMA, I pull you right in, I get taken down.
It's so hard for me to think, to push away, to stop this, because everything I've done for the last...
17 years of my life has been.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, have you worked with...
What is your trainer's name again?
The Japanese dude?
joe schilling
Mark Kimura.
joe rogan
He seems like a really interesting guy.
joe schilling
He's a real cool dude.
joe rogan
And you've been with him for...
joe schilling
10 years, 11 years.
joe rogan
What's his background?
joe schilling
He's done almost every martial art, I think.
He did a keto for a while, and the guy was like, you know, you have to come at me like this.
He's like, oh, what if I do this?
Like, no, no, no, it has to be like that.
He's like, oh, fuck this bullshit.
But he did boxing and kickboxing.
He was one of the first promoters here in California for Muay Thai.
When they used to have the old shows at Hollywood Park was Voot Promotions.
joe rogan
I like to meet that guy.
He seems like a very wise guy.
Very knowledgeable guy.
joe schilling
He's a real good dude.
joe rogan
But have you had much experience besides American Top Team working with different kickboxing trainers or is there anybody that you would really enjoy working with?
joe schilling
No, I haven't had a lot of experience outside of working with ATT. Even ATT was mostly, I just worked at my wrestling.
Wrestling, wrestling, wrestling.
I haven't worked with a whole lot of other kickboxing trainers.
joe rogan
Do you think there's benefit in that?
In trying out, you know, different people, just having some sessions with some different people just to see if you can pick up a few things?
joe schilling
Oh, absolutely.
joe rogan
You know, like a Rob Kamen or something like that?
joe schilling
Yeah, I know Rob Kamen.
He's a buddy of mine, but we haven't worked together yet.
joe rogan
God, you gotta work with him, man.
joe schilling
Yeah, absolutely.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, Anthony Hardonk's around here too.
You ever train with him?
I'll set it up.
Smart guy.
He's another guy I think he could probably help you.
He knows a lot of shit.
I just think, you know, for a guy like you at your level, like any little variables that you could pick up from any of these guys is probably a good thing.
There's just so much good knowledge.
And Southern California in particular is such an amazing place for just all martial arts.
I mean, we're like in one of the...
I mean, as far as the United States, this is one of the meccas.
joe schilling
Henry Hoof.
I'd love to work with him.
We always see each other at the fights and know each other well.
joe rogan
Great guy.
joe schilling
Never had an opportunity to work with him.
He's done wonders.
He's out here a lot, actually.
I think he's been in Northern California quite a bit.
joe rogan
Is he?
joe schilling
He was at AKA for a while, I think.
joe rogan
What's he doing up there?
joe schilling
I'm not sure.
I think that he was working with Luke for the last fight, and I think that he might be moving out this way.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
joe schilling
From what I heard, yeah.
joe rogan
Interesting.
joe schilling
I don't know how long that Black Sillians is doing.
Yeah, isn't there like some...
joe rogan
Didn't the owner just declare bankruptcy or something along those lines?
joe schilling
I think that's what I heard.
joe rogan
That's not good.
I don't know.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe schilling
Because that owner owned Jocko, probably, too, at one point.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think.
I don't know.
joe schilling
I don't know enough about this to probably talk about it.
joe rogan
I don't either.
I mean, I know Dan Lambert very well, the guy who owns American Top Team, and that's as legit as it gets.
He's the best.
joe schilling
Such a great dude.
joe rogan
I love that guy.
joe schilling
He treated me like a superstar when I was there.
Dan Lambert is awesome.
joe rogan
No, he is a fucking amazing dude and so important for the growth and development of MMA. I mean, what he's done with American Top Team and putting together this world-class facility.
By the way, spending millions of dollars to do it.
Just throwing money at that and having guys take advantage of that.
And he had guys rip him off.
He had a lot of really shitty things happen.
And then when the Black Zillions came around, a lot of guys bailed because that guy paid them.
He paid people, like, come on over to me, I'll give you money.
And, you know, he just sort of poached a bunch of people, allegedly, according to Dan.
joe schilling
Yeah, that was the story.
That was the story.
joe rogan
So, who knows?
Who knows what the fuck happened?
But, at the end of the day, a guy like Dan Lambert's super important.
You need, like, these wealthy benefactors who take these chances and put together these facilities.
But, in my opinion, no one's done it like Dan has.
joe schilling
They just built a new facility out there.
I saw some pictures online.
joe rogan
Looks crazy.
joe schilling
It's crazy.
joe rogan
It's got apartments.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
A huge warehouse building.
joe schilling
That seems to be like the thing going on now is a lot of people are building like dorms at their camps now.
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
Which makes a lot of sense because so many guys are bouncing around.
joe rogan
Sure.
joe schilling
You know, they come from out of town to go train and Greg Jackson's building one like that.
joe rogan
Yeah, Greg Jackson.
joe schilling
Cowboy said he has a bad motherfucker ranch.
I'm going to get out there pretty soon.
Cowboy, man, Cowboy's good, dude.
joe rogan
How good did Cowboy look against Cote?
Holy shit.
joe schilling
He was fucking screaming at the TV. He looked fucking awesome.
joe rogan
Sensational.
At 170, he looks goddamn sensational.
I mean, it's like everything came together at 170. And Cote's a beast, man.
Nobody's ever worked Cote over the way Cowboy did.
joe schilling
And Cote has fought at like 205 before, too, right?
His first fight, he was saying that...
At 170, the guy was also like a 155-er coming up, but it was like a new weight, right?
joe rogan
What was his first?
Oh, Cowboy's first fight?
Yeah, but it was a big dude.
That was that other Cowboy dude.
But that guy's big.
He's a big fella.
He was bigger than Cowboy, but Cowboy caught him in a triangle.
But he just looked great.
joe schilling
But like, Kofi fought at like 185. His first fight was at 205. He dropped Tito Ortiz.
joe rogan
This was way back in the day.
When Tito was a light heavyweight champ, I believe.
And I think Tito was either a champ or...
I mean, Tito was in his prime.
And he lost to Tito at light heavyweight and then went down to 185, fought Anderson Silva.
He was doing a very smart fight.
He fought a very smart fight against Anderson, where he was making Anderson lead.
And Anderson's really a counter guy.
And he was just sort of laying back, and Anderson didn't like it.
Anderson does not like it.
joe schilling
Is that when he had a weird knee popped or something?
joe rogan
His knee blew out.
Yeah, he lifted his leg up to throw a kick and his knee just buckled and caved in on him.
joe schilling
That shit happens sometimes.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
joe schilling
Weird freak shit like that happens a lot in the sport.
joe rogan
Well, sure, and there's also injuries you get in the second and third round that you don't even know what...
You felt your knee pop, you're not exactly sure what it is, and you're still standing on it and everything seems fine, and then you throw a kick and it just gives out.
There's that.
But the point is, Cote is a stud.
He's a tough fucking guy.
And to have Cowboy work him like that, I was like, woo!
He looked like a ninja.
joe schilling
Cowboy looked fucking awesome.
He looked like Terminator that night.
He looked fucking awesome.
He was really fucking happy for me.
joe rogan
Like a legit world champion.
Yeah, I hope he can keep that together.
I really do.
I think 170, I think these guys that are fucking depleting themselves so badly to cut weight, I think that's gonna be a thing of the past.
I really do.
I think people are gonna realize, like, this is not, the benefit that you get in that is negligible.
Cowboys weigh in like 176, somewhere around that, and he's cutting just a little bit of weight and making 170 easy.
joe schilling
Yeah, I think he was like four or five pounds off when he came.
He was here.
We sparred a couple weeks before the fight.
It was like 14 days out and he was like five pounds.
We were out to eat.
We were eating whatever we wanted.
That's nice.
joe rogan
Drinking beer.
He's so fucking ridiculous with that.
He drinks beer up until the day of the weigh-ins.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
That can't be good.
unidentified
Right?
Nah.
joe schilling
Why?
joe rogan
Well, a little bit of beer is probably okay.
Well, Bas Rutten said that.
He said he used to drink beer.
He said, I drink beer every night.
I drink a little bit of beer.
I don't get fucking drunk.
joe schilling
Yeah.
I'm with him.
I'm with him.
joe rogan
Do you drink a little beer when you're in camp?
joe schilling
Yeah, I drink a little beer when I'm in camp.
After the weigh-in.
Not immediately after the weigh-in, but when I'm all fed and rehydrated and feeling good, I'll have a beer.
It's part of my process.
unidentified
Really?
joe schilling
Yeah.
I like to be relaxed, you know?
I want to not relax like, oh, I'm going to get doing shots, you know what I mean?
Cowboy and I were talking about that, too.
It's like...
They have made fight week so stressful now for everyone and you get so mentally just stressed out and you can't do this and you can't do that and you gotta do these interviews and like fight week used to be our whole camp you know when I first started it was you want to fight on Saturday and it's like Monday and like okay I'm training all week and you fought on Saturday you know and uh you know I think that uh What's so stressful about it?
joe rogan
The interviews, the press?
joe schilling
The interviews, the...
If you know...
I try not to think about the fight.
Cowboys, same way.
We get along well with this stuff.
If you sat at home and didn't eat, you know, and you're already dieting, you sat at home, the only thing that you can think of is on Saturday night, this guy's gonna try and kill me and blah, blah, blah, blah.
And it's like it eats you up and like stresses you the fuck out.
joe rogan
Right.
joe schilling
You know what I mean?
As opposed to like going and seeing a movie and relaxing and, you know.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And when the thoughts of the fight come up in your head, you purposely ignore them, push them aside.
joe schilling
Yeah, if they're not helpful, you know what I mean?
They can't change, you know what I mean?
I don't overanalyze, you know?
I used to watch my fight, my opponents a million times, you know, before I fought.
Now it's like, I'll watch them fight maybe once or twice to see if there's anything that jumps out at me that would look, you know, like he does this sometimes, but other than that, try not to overanalyze it and make it in there and just do it.
joe rogan
Now that's a smart way to do it.
It's like you're doing all the work anyway.
You're doing all the work in the gym.
You're prepared.
Like, the mind needs time off, too.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just like the body does, right?
joe schilling
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And you've, you know, is cowboy drinking a beer during fight week gonna change what his body, what he's done to train for the last 12 years of his life?
He's not gonna, you know, perform because he had that beer.
Like, I don't think so.
I think being relaxed and being confident and comfortable and then getting in there and handling business that night.
joe rogan
People are like, what the fuck is that sound?
joe schilling
Oh my god.
joe rogan
That's what people are saying.
unidentified
I know.
What the fuck?
joe schilling
Fucking cucks.
joe rogan
What the fuck is going on here, man?
You did some work with Vinny Shorman, you know, who I've had on the podcast.
Great guy.
And before that, Vinny's a, he calls himself a mental coach.
He does hypnosis, but he calls himself a mental coach.
And before that, I was like, all right, what's the deal with this hypnotism?
Is this shit legit?
And then he put me under.
I had him do it.
I was like, oh, I woke up.
My pants were gone.
joe schilling
You gotta have him do timeline therapy on you.
joe rogan
What is that?
joe schilling
Timeline therapy is like, it's like a hypnosis state, but you're basically, you know, like a timeline in a book.
There's like, Jesus born, whatever, World War I, World War II. And you kind of like, did you feel like you floated at all when you were under, or no?
joe rogan
Didn't feel like I floated, but I felt like I went inward more.
joe schilling
Okay.
joe rogan
Like I was, I felt like, it almost felt like I was on a drug.
joe schilling
So this one, when you do it, you almost, like, you pull back.
Like, you pull back and you'll come up and you'll be out of...
This probably sounds so weird to people that don't get it, but fuck them.
You're straight up into the sky.
It feels like you're floating to me.
I know what it feels like to fly based off of that.
And you go up, up, up, up, and you're looking at your life in a timeline.
Think about a time when you're as far back as you can possibly remember, and you will tap into some shit from your childhood that you didn't even know that you even remembered.
You know what I mean?
Some really far out stuff.
And it'll change a lot of things.
If you think about it, Everything that's ever happened to your whole life, everything you've ever seen, thought, heard, where did that information go?
It didn't fall out of your head.
It's there.
You just can't access it anymore.
You have a hard time accessing it.
And with these hypnosis things, you have the opportunity to still tap into that or get better at tapping into that and accessing that information.
joe rogan
So what did you get out of it?
joe schilling
Remember when I said I forgive my dad?
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
Before I die?
I hated my dad's guts.
Like, hated him.
My dad did some really shitty things to me.
And I hated him.
I hated him.
And Vinny, one day, he said, I want to try this Tylenol therapy on you if you're into it.
I'm like, yeah.
And he's like, what is he going to do?
He's like, I don't know.
We're just going to see if you like this thing.
Had no clue what it was going to do.
And had me think of all these times in my life.
And When I felt really proud, when I felt really afraid, when I felt really scared, when I felt really strong, when I felt really...
All these emotions.
It was about 45 minutes.
Every single one of the emotions was some other time with my dad.
It was weird.
When we got done with the session, I couldn't even tap into that hatred that I had for my dad anymore.
I fucking hated him.
When I finally had cancer, I was like, I don't give a shit.
Fuck him.
After that session, I didn't have that I used to be able to look in the mirror and think about my dad in my eyes.
We were ready to be so fucking mad.
I used to fight when I was...
I used to do a lot of things that were based off of shoving up my dad's ass.
I'm going to show him.
Not necessarily fighting that person, like, not pretending it's my dad, but it was more like, I'm gonna, you know, I had a lot of motivation for my dad.
And, uh, yeah, when the session was over, I had, I couldn't even tap into that.
I was able to go, and I decided to go and start a new relationship with my dad.
And it wasn't like, I forgive you, but say you're sorry.
And, you know, it was like, I just didn't give a fuck anymore.
Like, it wasn't worth it.
And, um, People that really knew me really well could just see me differently.
There was like this chip that I had carried around on my shoulder that wasn't there anymore.
joe rogan
Wow.
joe schilling
It was nuts.
It was nuts.
joe rogan
That's an interesting thing.
The idea of timeline therapy, the idea of thinking about your life and being able to separate yourself like who you are right now and go back and look at all these moments in your life and what they meant to you and how you're carrying that around today.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
That would be very valuable to people.
joe schilling
He does all kinds of stuff.
You have a phobia.
If you're afraid of fucking spiders or whatever, he can do shit with you and get rid of that phobia.
He'll hypnotize you.
I don't know how he does it.
I have to ask him.
But he can hypnotize you and have you get rid of that phobia where you are not afraid of those things anymore.
joe rogan
Yeah, I wish I had a recording of what he was doing.
You know, what he said and the way he said it.
joe schilling
He's coming back over in a couple weeks.
joe rogan
Yeah, he just sent me an email.
I've got to get back to him.
joe schilling
He's got, I think, a podcast he's doing.
It's called The Mind Diet.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's great.
I'm a big fan of Vinny's, just as a person.
I really enjoy him.
And he's a very good Muay Thai commentator, too.
joe schilling
Yeah, he really knows his shit.
joe rogan
What was he doing?
He was doing It's Glory, right?
joe schilling
No, Infusion.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
But what was he doing?
Do you do It's Showtime?
joe schilling
Yeah, it was It's Showtime.
joe rogan
That's right, It's Showtime.
joe schilling
And Fusion did K1 back in the day.
joe rogan
Did I say It's Glory?
joe schilling
Yeah, It's Glory.
joe rogan
It's showtime.
It's showtime.
joe schilling
It ended up being glory anyway.
joe rogan
How the fuck did kickboxing become so goddamn big in Europe?
It's so huge in other parts of the world.
Especially Holland.
joe schilling
They just had the right people promoting it.
Most of the management guys for K1 were Dutch and their fighters were Dutch.
I don't know.
I think when the US was blowing up with MMA, they were still on the kickboxing train.
That's why we got held back, I think.
joe rogan
Well, it's amazing when you look at...
joe schilling
Fucking cage fighters ruined it for us.
joe rogan
God damn it.
joe schilling
We're coming back though.
joe rogan
If you look at all the different people that are super high-level kickboxers, they came from this one really small country.
I mean, Holland is not very big at all.
But you've got Rob Kamen, you've got Ernesto Hoost.
I mean, it is just like this incredible hotbed of super high-level kickboxing talent.
I mean, Ramon Deckers.
I mean, you can go on and on and on.
You can keep going about all the high-level talent that came out of Holland.
And to this day, you know, Badr Hari.
joe schilling
It's like five gyms.
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
Maybe not even five.
It was like three or four major gyms, and they just all competed all the time.
And it blew up, yeah.
joe rogan
What's going on with that Badr Hari, dude?
joe schilling
I don't know.
I don't know.
joe rogan
That guy's always breaking people's legs in nightclubs and knocking people out.
He's fucking crazy.
joe schilling
He's an angry motherfucker.
joe rogan
He's angry as fuck.
Why is he so angry?
joe schilling
I don't know.
I never met the guy.
I hope to meet him someday.
You know, that's one of the few people left on my bucket list of people I haven't met is Badr Hari.
I would be a super fanboy if I met Badr Hari.
joe rogan
Yeah, you took a photo with somebody and you were saying, it was on your Instagram, you were saying there's only one more left.
joe schilling
Yeah.
That was Chuck Liddell.
I saw him at a club here in Hollywood not long ago.
I met Mike Tyson.
I met Chuck Liddell.
There's been a lot of people that I've had the honor of meeting.
Chuck Liddell was a big one.
I was like, I don't want to be a fanboy.
unidentified
It is hard not to be a fanboy.
joe schilling
That was my hero when I was a kid.
joe rogan
Is Badr Hari in jail?
What is he doing now?
joe schilling
I think they're talking about getting him in glory.
I think they were trying to.
But I don't know.
joe rogan
He's so goddamn crazy.
There's a video of him, some guy was working at the front desk of a hotel, and I don't know what the fuck he said, but Bada didn't like it, so he went behind the counter and smacked him in his head.
joe schilling
Really?
joe rogan
It was security camera footage.
joe schilling
See, I hope the guy said something and it's not that Butterhari's just a bully, because a lot of these guys are fucking bullies, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah, I hope so, too.
I mean, I'm laughing.
joe schilling
You know, and walks up and smacks you.
joe rogan
Verhoeven on Butterhari's Superfight.
Rumors are true.
Oh, shit.
That's a bad motherfucker.
Rico Verhoeven is a bad motherfucker.
I'm very impressed with that guy.
You want to talk about a big athletic heavyweight with sick endurance and just world-class kickboxing skill.
joe schilling
And fucking big.
That dude is enormous.
unidentified
Yeah, he's huge.
joe schilling
I'm not a small guy.
That guy is fucking huge.
Yeah, he's huge.
He's just a giant, giant man.
He's a giant man.
joe rogan
Giant and, like, really good endurance for a big guy.
He pushes a great pace.
joe schilling
Really good boxing.
He was, like, part of Tyson Fury's camp for, I think, Klitschko or something.
joe rogan
Was he really?
Yeah.
Isn't that interesting?
There's a gypsy world heavyweight champion.
joe schilling
A lot of those guys are gypsies.
I don't know.
Gypsy, is that a bad word?
Or traveler, I guess, is the better one.
joe rogan
Traveler?
That's what they like to call it?
joe schilling
Pikey.
Pikey?
Is gypsy bad?
Pikey's bad.
I think Pikey is not.
It's a derogatory term.
joe rogan
Oh, sorry, folks.
joe schilling
Sorry.
joe rogan
It's fucking language police.
joe schilling
I think travelers.
I think travelers.
joe rogan
Well, Eskimo's a tricky one.
Because in some places, Eskimo is an insult.
But in Alaska, they don't have a problem with Eskimo.
The people that live in certain parts of Alaska, apparently, that's what they call them, so they like it.
It's not an issue.
Depends.
It's totally geographical.
joe schilling
Who else would be an Eskimo outside of Alaska?
joe rogan
Inuits.
Inuits, they live in different parts of the world.
Canada.
I think in Canada, Eskimo may be an insult.
joe schilling
Because they're not from Alaska?
joe rogan
I just think they're the same people, but they just prefer a different name, maybe?
Well, like, the people in Canada, they call themselves, the natives call themselves First Nations.
Yeah, you can't call them Indians, they're not Indians.
So it's like, it's essentially the same kind of people, they're just in a different spot.
It's all fucking weird, man.
It's all weird.
But, yeah, you gotta be careful.
Travelers.
Call them a traveler.
joe schilling
Traveler, I think, is the right way to go.
joe rogan
He's a funny guy, though.
He fucked with Vladimir Klitschko's head.
He really fucked with his head.
joe schilling
He's a funny motherfucker.
joe rogan
He's funny.
joe schilling
He's very funny.
joe rogan
He's hilarious.
He's a terrible singer, though.
Tell him to stop singing.
unidentified
Go.
joe rogan
But they're having this heavyweight title.
joe schilling
But Nikki Holtzman's family is a traveler.
joe rogan
Are they really?
That makes sense.
joe schilling
And who else?
Albert Krauss.
joe rogan
He's another one?
Really?
Wow.
Tough fuckers.
But it makes sense.
joe schilling
Yeah, Tyson Fury does interviews from inside his trailer.
Does he really?
Yeah, I saw one the other day.
joe rogan
He still has a trailer?
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
Still?
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
As a world champion?
joe schilling
Yep.
joe rogan
He's living in a trailer?
joe schilling
Yep.
joe rogan
Whoa.
joe schilling
A traveler.
unidentified
Hmm.
joe rogan
Do you think that he keeps the house too?
joe schilling
I don't know.
I have no idea.
unidentified
Hmm.
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
I don't think being a traveler, from what I know about, well, I don't really the fuck do I know, but I don't think that it's about a money thing, because I think a lot of those people have money and flashy stuff and whatever.
It's just they get their way of life.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
joe schilling
Yeah, to be able to pick up and go wherever you want.
joe rogan
So they just don't want to have roots.
They like to be able to just have, what do they call them, caravans?
I saw that movie, Snatch.
joe schilling
Yeah, that's my favorite movie of all time.
joe rogan
Fucking great movie.
joe schilling
Favorite movie of all time.
I could fucking recite that entire movie.
joe rogan
There he is.
Tyson Fury.
He's a fucking enormous heavyweight boxer who can't even stand up in his trailer.
He's too tall for his own trailer.
joe schilling
And that's where he actually lives.
unidentified
How are you fuckin' Gavin?
joe rogan
How are you?
joe schilling
You like tags?
joe rogan
That Brad Pitt movie.
That was a good fuckin' movie, man.
joe schilling
Such a good movie.
joe rogan
I had no idea those people talked to such a strange accent before that movie.
And then I got stuck watching these movies, or these videos on YouTube, where these travelers are challenging each other.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You ever watch those?
joe schilling
Oh, I fuckin' love it.
joe rogan
Those are the best.
Oh, you piece of shite.
joe schilling
You piece of shite.
The one with the kids?
unidentified
Yeah!
joe schilling
Oh, the kids.
Oh, the kids are so good.
unidentified
Bong, Nick McGregor, you're a fucking piece of shit.
joe schilling
I'm gonna flog you.
I'm gonna flog you good.
joe rogan
Yeah, but they have these fucking bare-knuckle fights, man.
And then they have no rounds.
They have some weird rules.
And they're all fighting with their fucking jeans on.
joe schilling
Yeah, they have, like, their own court system.
And, like, that's...
If you have a dispute, that's something about, like, their dispute.
And then you fight over it.
And, like, when, you know...
It's settled.
When it's settled, it's settled.
And they'll have a full-on fucking fight, and that's the law.
Like, okay, he won, he wins.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
It's crazy.
joe rogan
Well, it's just interesting to watch it all play out on YouTube, because you might have heard about all this stuff before, or you hear about it in stories and legends, but I think our age is the first age that's ever had a chance to watch these guys challenge each other.
I'm calling you out!
You're a fucking bag of shite.
And there's a ton of them online.
They're really interesting to watch.
Because you're getting a peek into, like, a very sensitive culture.
Sensitive in that, like, there's not...
They don't have...
There's not a lot of history behind it in terms of documented culture, and they could go away.
That's something that might not be here a hundred years from now.
We might be watching a type of people or a group of people that are living a certain way that things might change in the next hundred years and they might integrate back into society.
These fucking people...
unidentified
The whole world already knows that.
And you're going around the place Barney telling people you're the king.
You're not going to burger king, Barney.
How are you the king, for God's sake?
You're never going to fight in your whole life.
She's a cowly, good-blood woman with four bellies.
And my mother challenged her.
And we've been going to fight in that town.
joe rogan
My mother challenged her.
joe schilling
There's one.
unidentified
I bet you, Jerry, was your rat cunt.
joe rogan
Look at this fucking guy.
joe schilling
It's like two young kids and it is so fucking funny.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
I just think it's so interesting to see all this stuff on YouTube because we have a view into this culture that you never would have gotten this before.
You would have heard, you know, Patti O'Brien called out Mickey O'Fuckface and they met in the swamps and duked it out.
But seeing this...
And again, I mean, you know, I would like them to be able to keep their way of life and all that.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to do this, but I'm saying that it's possible that that might not be there in 50 years.
These people, they don't really have a country.
They don't have a city.
So it's kind of delicate.
Their existence is fairly delicate.
It's not like you're talking about people like, oh, these are guys that live in Detroit, and Detroit's always had this sort of gypsy community.
No.
No, they fucking travel around.
And a lot of places we travel, people don't want them there.
I have friends who are from London and they had a house that is in some suburb.
I don't know what they call it in England.
I don't think they call it a suburb in the country.
They had this house and these travelers moved next to their house.
There was like a lot next to their house.
They just set up shop, party till fucking four o'clock in the morning, threw garbage in the street and nobody could do shit.
They're all scared to say anything.
Everyone's scared to say anything and you can't There's no laws.
There's no law against what they're doing.
Because you can't discriminate against these travelers.
So it's this weird situation where people are trying to sell their houses.
Nobody wants to buy it.
Property values crash.
And these proper English people that I'm friends with were trying to explain the terrors of these people moving next door.
And I'm chuckling.
Oh, your second house.
Oh, no.
What are you going to do?
These people just move next door and they're fucking partying.
What can you do, though?
You challenge him.
If I fucking win, you've got to move.
joe schilling
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
How do you listen, you hear me?
unidentified
You fucking bag of shite.
joe rogan
I'm gonna kick you out of my neck.
joe schilling
You threw your trash in my yard.
joe rogan
My snooty neighborhood.
Yeah, they just set up shop and started partying.
And people were like, what in the fuck?
Can you imagine if you're like one of those pinkies out, teetotaler type English people who are super proper, and these motherfuckers moved next door, started bloodying each other up, having bonfires, I don't know, man.
Something about the way they live is fun.
joe schilling
Yeah, I know.
There's something about it.
joe rogan
I'm glad they're around.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's exciting.
joe schilling
Yeah, I think so, too.
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
Let them be them.
Let them live their lives.
I mean, sorry if they're in your house.
I'm sorry, too.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm sorry if they fucked up your house.
But it's kind of fun they're around.
joe schilling
It's kind of awesome.
Yeah, I hope they win.
joe rogan
In the greater picture of civilization, it's an interesting element.
And on that note, want to wrap this up?
joe schilling
Sure.
Anything else?
joe rogan
Note to not the haters, but note to all the nice people out there.
Shoutouts to all the fans.
joe schilling
Oh, shoutouts to all the fans.
You know, never a boring fight.
You know, I'll be back and I'll come back from this like I always have.
You're never going to turn off Joe Schilling fight.
joe rogan
You got a great fucking attitude, dude.
You had a great attitude, even through losses, and I think people do appreciate that.
I think people definitely appreciate the fact that you fight the way you do.
joe schilling
I gotta tell you about this machine, though.
It's called a Frogger.
Have you heard of this?
joe rogan
A Frogger?
joe schilling
It's called a Frogger.
Frogger?
Frogger.
It's this machine they sent me to my gym.
It's on wheels.
It's like a full-body movement.
It's designed for...
It's like you're on wheels and you can do it in place or you can do it you could actually race people in it and it's a You race people you can race in it Can you find it Jamie no?
joe rogan
Do you know the company that makes it?
joe schilling
I do.
joe rogan
We're going to get this information.
joe schilling
I'm really blowing this whole fucking plug here.
joe rogan
It's on wheels.
joe schilling
It's on wheels.
joe rogan
I feel like I'm playing charades.
It's a frog, but it's not.
It's a frogger.
Football players use it.
Okay, I'm looking at this thing.
Oh, this is crazy.
joe schilling
There's like wheels for your feet.
It's like doing a burpee.
Where can Jamie find this?
joe rogan
Where can Jamie find this?
joe schilling
I have a link right here.
joe rogan
What is the name of the link?
Or what is the name of that thing?
What I'm looking at, folks, it's sort of like a super advanced version of an ab wheel, but you have one on your feet and one on your hands, and you're pushing forward with the one on your hands, where it's almost like a cart, and then you're pulling the ab wheel that's connected to your feet forward and pushing...
unidentified
Frog Fitness.
joe rogan
Frog Fitness.
Because you kind of look like a frog while you're doing it.
Here it is.
Frog Fitness.
Fill out one of our forms or click here to head to our new website.
joe schilling
So they sent me two of these to the gym for me to try out.
And I was like, oh, it looks like fun.
This is like, you know you do like a burpee and it's like almost immediate exhaustion like that?
joe rogan
Yeah.
joe schilling
That thing is one of the hardest workouts I've ever had.
And they're marketing it for like a lot of the NFL training camps are getting it because it's like the same position for football.
But it's a...
It's a beast of a thing.
joe rogan
So that would make sense that it would be really good for wrestling, too, then.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
The new evolution in fitness.
Okay, so it's got resistance bands, so you push the forward cart, and the resistance bands are resisting you as you push forward, and then you pull your legs forward.
Wow, this looks fucking badass.
joe schilling
It's like it works every part of your body, and it's like immediate exhaustion.
joe rogan
Wow!
joe schilling
It's like nothing else I've ever used before.
It's a fucking awesome product.
joe rogan
No kidding, man.
And do you feel any benefit of this when you're sparring or when you're training?
joe schilling
I used it for cardio.
I even used it.
And you can set it so that you can be in one place, so that you're not going anywhere.
joe rogan
Seems like you would get a motherfucker of a six-pack.
joe schilling
There's a bunch of really hard workouts to it.
But I'll do that with my altitude machine.
Because it just zaps.
You get so fucking tired so fast.
So I try to do that even in high altitude.
joe rogan
Okay, so this girl was using it to do like cleans and presses, and she's doing like rows with it.
So the wheel also acts as resistance with the bands.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe schilling
You can put like 160 pounds on the thing or something.
unidentified
What?
joe schilling
It's something else.
It's nuts.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Okay, so you use fatter bands, and then it makes more resistance as you push forward?
Is this the guy who invented it?
He looks like a frog.
Sorry, buddy.
Not in a bad way.
Frogs are awesome.
Frogs get you high if you like them.
So this one right here, that guy's got it fully loaded up.
Oh, wow.
Look at that.
That is interesting, man.
Okay, so there's a bunch of different ways to use that thing.
Wow, I like it.
That must give you a fucking hell of a core workout, huh?
joe schilling
It's fucking terrible.
It's fun, but I fucking hate it.
I hate it.
It's exhausting.
Exhausting.
joe rogan
What is your strength and conditioning when you're not working with Kurson?
Like, what do you do?
Do you just mostly concentrate on fight preparation, like pad work, sparring, bag work, things along those lines?
joe schilling
Yeah, when I'm not working with Kurson, you know, I run.
I'll do a lot of sprints.
I do a lot of Tabatos.
joe rogan
Explain Tabata to people who don't know.
joe schilling
It's an interval thing.
It's 8 rounds of 20 seconds of work and 10 seconds of rest.
And what you're doing is you're going as fast and as hard as you can for 20 seconds, getting your heart rate as high as possible.
And then immediately when 20 seconds is up, you have 10 seconds of rest.
So you're training your heart rate to get used to spiking and then come back down.
It can increase your VO2 max incredibly.
Tabata's is like really a big part of my cardio sessions.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's an amazing protocol that was invented.
I don't know who invented it.
joe schilling
So it would be a four-minute round total, eight times of 20 seconds, right?
joe rogan
And it sort of goes along the same lines of what we're talking about with Nick Kursan's doing or what Pavel Tatsuli is doing.
It's not about massive amounts of work.
It's about doing it smart and doing it the right way.
So these 20-second sprints and these 10-second breaks, man, what a massive impact it has on your cardio.
joe schilling
And you can do that with anything.
You could be running, you could be hitting pads with it.
I'll do bag work as hard as you can for 20 seconds and then 10 seconds off.
If you think about that, that's how a fight is anyway.
You have a 20 second burst and you have 10 seconds of getting your shit together and a 20 second burst.
I do that a lot.
Lately I've been doing a lot more just pad work and speed work and using a double in bag a lot.
For a long time I was trying to be very physical and outworking the other person and being more aggressive and trying to get more to speed and technique than trying to outwork people.
joe rogan
That's definitely a smart move.
Definitely a smart way to go.
joe schilling
That wasn't exactly what I did last Friday night, but that's what I did with Jason Willness.
The time of four was a really good example of that.
joe rogan
That was a very good example of that.
Yeah, and Willness is a dangerous motherfucker.
That guy's very dangerous.
He hits hard.
He's a real threat.
That was a real good fight.
joe schilling
Yeah.
joe rogan
So, all right, brother.
Oh, one more shout-out.
joe schilling
One more?
Sorry, buddy.
unidentified
Please.
joe schilling
Kinetic Motorsports in Long Beach.
Did you see my Instagram?
They gave me a Ferrari in the phone.
joe rogan
Is that real?
joe schilling
Yeah, they gave me a Ferrari for like a week till the fight, and then gave it back, went to the fight, and then I got a brand new Z06 outside right now.
Really?
Yep.
joe rogan
They're just letting you borrow cars?
joe schilling
They gave me cars to drive so I don't have to buy whatever.
They're a high-end car lot.
They have fucking super nice cars.
You can rent them, you can buy them.
Really?
Yeah.
joe rogan
And Long Beach.
joe schilling
All right.
joe rogan
Powerful kinetic motorsports.
Anybody who gives you a Ferrari, they're on my good side.
Look at that fucking thing.
Oh, shit.
Which one was that?
joe schilling
It's a 458 Italia.
joe rogan
What a beautiful car.
Goddamn.
joe schilling
It was so good.
joe rogan
Look at the design of that thing.
joe schilling
It was so good, Joe.
joe rogan
It's just so spectacular.
It's like a car from the future.
Like, when you were a kid, you thought about a car in the future?
That's what you, like, envisioned.
joe schilling
You know, I had a fucking Ferrari Testarossa poster on my wall as a child.
You know what I mean?
Talk about bucket list shit.
That's it right there.
When that...
When that InFocus piece came out and they texted it to me, I was driving in the Ferrari and just fucking...
When they gave me that, it was like a good two hours where I was just like, ah!
Fucking losing my shit, right?
But I'm driving in the Ferrari and I get a text and it was the Bellator social media team sends me that video and I'm watching this video of how far I've come and what I've done for the sport and That Can't Stop Crazy and Focus piece in the driver's seat of a Ferrari.
It was a good feeling.
joe rogan
That's ridiculous.
Dana White's the same way.
When he was a kid, he was in love with Testarossa like everybody was at Watch Miami Vice.
So he had one made.
He had one done up with a custom interior and a real stereo.
Apparently that's a big no-no.
People don't want to fuck with the original insides of the Ferrari.
He's like, fuck you.
He had that done up, but he was like, I finally got a Testarossa.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Those big lines on the side.
That was the car we were kids.
joe schilling
Fuck yeah.
joe rogan
Alright, Joe Schilling.
Joe Schilling 187 on Twitter.
Joe Schilling on Instagram.
joe schilling
Joe underscore Schilling on Instagram.
And Snapchat is Joe dash Schilling.
joe rogan
Hey, whoever's got my name on Snapchat, give it up, man.
I'll get on Snapchat.
I'll give you a shout-out.
joe schilling
Who does that anyway?
joe rogan
I even throw you a little money.
joe schilling
I throw you a little cash.
joe rogan
Come on.
Contact me.
joe schilling
Who does that?
Who are these people that have other people as their profile picture?
Give me my name!
Give me a break.
joe rogan
Give me my name, you fucks!
Alright, thanks, brother.
Appreciate it, man.
unidentified
Cucks.
joe schilling
You fucking cucks.
Give him his name back, you cuck.
joe rogan
And let us know before the next fight.
We'll have you back on again for sure and pump that up and let everybody know about it.
joe schilling
Always a pleasure, Joe.
joe rogan
Always a pleasure to see you too, my brother.
Thank you very much.
Alright, we'll be back tomorrow, folks.
Thank you very much.
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