Nov. 4, 2015 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:22:29
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Boom! | ||
| And we're live. | ||
| Joshua, how are you? | ||
| I'm good, Joe. | ||
| How are you? | ||
| Dude, your story... | ||
| Well, we were talking before this, alright? | ||
| Because I had seen online that you had gotten fired for this whole Donald Sterling comment thing, and then you had said to me, you took some heat for the Donald Sterling thing, too. | ||
| But not really. | ||
| I didn't. | ||
| There's no... | ||
| The only real heat is... | ||
| You get in trouble. | ||
| You lose a job. | ||
| You actually got fired for saying something that's entirely reasonable. | ||
| And I'm going to paraphrase what you said, but I believe what you said was he has every right to be an old bigot in the privacy of his home and that he's a victim because this fucking floozy that he was hanging around with had recorded him and then leaked the audio. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Which is totally, completely reasonable. | ||
| You called him an old bigot. | ||
| You didn't in any way support him. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I said he was a bigot in my own statement. | ||
| Even the statement that was isolated. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Thank you for picking up on that. | ||
| But this idea that in the privacy of your own home, that your words should be gone over with a fine-tooth comb by the entire world, and that's not some horrendous invasion of privacy. | ||
| Like, that's fucked, man. | ||
| To me, that invasion of privacy is a way more egregious error than someone being a shithead at his own time, right? | ||
|
unidentified
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And even what he said, the reality of what he said... | |
| He said, and he never used a racial slur, I mean, call him a bigot if you will, but what he said was, I don't want, to his girlfriend, I don't want you taking pictures with these black guys. | ||
| I don't care if you fuck them, but I don't want you taking pictures with them. | ||
| I don't care if you fuck them is a huge part of his statement. | ||
| I would not say that's a bigot. | ||
| I mean, look, so worst case, right? | ||
| Or best case, depending on what your perspective is, social justice warrior or whatever. | ||
| But yeah, best case scenario, worst case scenario, he's a bigot, right? | ||
| But even that shouldn't affect me the way that it seemed to have been affecting everybody, right? | ||
| And the way that the media was hyping it up and the media was spinning it and totally not necessarily looking at... | ||
| seedy shit that was going on around that whole thing right yeah I mean I have to question what is the mistress's motives in that right like all that's hearsay and I know that in the wake of all of that there was lots of finger pointing and he said she said going on and and lawsuits filed but I think that you know it's not hard to imagine that her motives weren't pure you know they weren't they weren't like it wasn't like she was some white knight you know rushing in to to do some great social justice I | ||
| I think that at the end of the day, she was really out to, you know, take this guy down or get something out of it, right? | ||
| Well, didn't she say that she didn't release it? | ||
| I believe that was her statement. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, whoever got a hold of it, I don't know what her statement is. | ||
| And at the end of the day, Joe, to me, it's hearsay, right? | ||
| All of that shouldn't matter to me. | ||
| What matters to me is... | ||
| And what I was trying to call attention to and what I've always tried to call attention to is the way people... | ||
| We have these weird priorities. | ||
| We love to have this endorphin drip. | ||
| We love to be angry. | ||
| We love to be a part of something big. | ||
| And then we don't necessarily take a step back and look at the big picture of what was happening, what was going down, and what could we be talking about instead of all of this stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Well, it's just infuriating to me that you can get fired for what I believe is an incredibly innocuous statement. | ||
| I mean, maybe this is coming from me, maybe my perception of the difference between working for a public company and having controversial opinions, and me being a comedian, a cage-fighting commentator. | ||
| I have different standards, I guess. | ||
| It's a different world. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I can say something pretty fucked up, and I might get a call from the UFC, and they're like, what are you, drunk? | ||
| You know, like, that's it. | ||
| And you're like, yeah, pretty much. | ||
| I might say it, and then I'll say, sorry, I was fucked up. | ||
| And then it goes away. | ||
| But, you know, I just can't believe that the standards are so low. | ||
| Or the outrage standards. | ||
| That it requires such a minimal ripple on the seismograph that people will freak out to the point where you can lose your fucking job for calling someone a bigot and saying, this guy should have the right to do that in his home and be a piece of shit. | ||
| I know what to expect from Westboro Baptist Church, right? | ||
| I know what to expect from the KKK, right? | ||
| I don't agree with any of that shit, and I abhor it. | ||
| I think that they're all scumbags, but I kind of know what to expect from that, and that shouldn't surprise me when some headline comes out or when they do some weird stuff, right? | ||
| A lot of people were saying, you know, well, Donald Sterling, he had this huge, long history of being like racially weird and questionable. | ||
| So it's like, well, then why are you acting really surprised that this thing happened at all? | ||
| And why are you supporting like a breach of privacy in that way? | ||
| Because that, to me, is a more sort of inalienable right to privacy. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| I completely and totally agree. | ||
| And I think that this idea that somehow or another, you should be on your best behavior all the time. | ||
| You can't just say something. | ||
| If you're alone and you want to say something completely disgusting... | ||
| You may or may not mean it. | ||
| You might be under the influence of alcohol or drugs, but you're not giving public statements. | ||
| And so for those public statements or for it to get out like a public statement and for people to absorb it and then analyze it and critique it and criticize it and then get crazy about it. | ||
| I found it ridiculous. | ||
| And I think if the guy does have this long history of being racist, I understand it then. | ||
| Then I understand why people are upset. | ||
| They're like, good, we got him. | ||
| Like, here it is. | ||
| We caught him. | ||
| What does that have to do with me? | ||
| Right. | ||
| But understand how you caught him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| I mean, you caught him in a fucked up way that nobody should get caught that way. | ||
| I mean, that's just not how the world is supposed to work in America in 2015. I mean, what is everybody upset about? | ||
| Everybody's upset about this Edward Snowden thing, right? | ||
| Because Edward Snowden found out that the NSA is secretly wiretapping every fucking phone in the country and recording all your emails, recording all your voicemails, and everybody got crazy. | ||
| Like, that's outrageous. | ||
| Well, that's no different. | ||
| This is all private stuff. | ||
| I mean, this is very similar. | ||
| It's along the same lines. | ||
| The idea that you can be judged, and him, ultimately, I mean, the guy got his fucking team taken away. | ||
| He got hammered. | ||
| It's insane. | ||
| It changed the course of his life and for someone like that too like he's a billionaire He's the money aspect is hardly anything for him right to him It's his legacy the thing that mattered most to him completely trash completely gone and again It doesn't matter who he was and what other people thought of him and what matters again to me is just the way that and honestly I wasn't even that mad at the NBA because if you look at if you look at the position they were in they kind of had their hand forced in a lot of ways and Under this torrential downpour of media and | ||
| public discourse. | ||
| So in a way, I almost empathize with them and the position that they were put in. | ||
| But to me, it's the way that we reacted to it and the way that we kind of were okay with it and a part of it. | ||
| And so I was trying to be the one voice of reason at the time, swimming against the stream to try to bring some common sense to the conversation, which is like, this guy, he's not this weird monster dude. | ||
| He's not like this... | ||
| Crazy guy who's wreaking havoc and blowing up cities and towns. | ||
| He's an old guy who grew up in an era very different than ours, and he might have some weird shit floating around in his head. | ||
| And maybe all of that was true, but at the end of the day, what still is not right is what's happening to him right now. | ||
| And you made this one tweet, which again, I think is fairly innocuous. | ||
| Actually, no, completely innocuous. | ||
| Totally justified. | ||
| The first tweet the company you were working for makes in response to it, they call you their former community leader. | ||
| Was that how you found out you were fired? | ||
| Practically. | ||
| So I can run you through the timetable if you want. | ||
| So the beginning of the day... | ||
| What company was it again? | ||
| Well, the company that I work for is called Turtle Rock Studios. | ||
| A bunch of really talented artists who are making an incredibly ambitious game called Evolve. | ||
| And so the game was and still is really awesome. | ||
| But the company, you know, game development, we work in a slightly different clock than most of corporate America. | ||
| We go in at like 10 a.m. | ||
| and we leave at like 7 p.m. | ||
| because we're usually up until really late in the evening. | ||
| Late in the evening, so I really don't even wake up until like 9 o'clock every day, most days. | ||
| So that day I woke up and my phone was kind of buzzing and blowing up. | ||
| One of my really close friends and colleagues at the time texted me and he was like, hey, by the way, you know, the stuff you tweeted about the other day, like some news outlet picked up on it, some small, you know, thing. | ||
| Some vulture group. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Who wanted to capitalize on that sensational headline. | ||
| And so he was just giving me a heads up. | ||
| And I was like, oh yeah, thanks, whatever. | ||
| To me, at the time, I was like, whatever. | ||
| I know what the group... | ||
| I don't want to name the site, but I know what they're about. | ||
| They do this all the time. | ||
| So I was like, whatever. | ||
| And then so maybe I jump in the shower and I get out and I've got texts from our GM at our studio like, you need to go Radio Dark on all social media, period. | ||
| And I was like, what? | ||
| I was like, what? | ||
| And so I texted him back, and I'm like, is this in relation to the article? | ||
| The one article that no one else picked up on, and that, like, you know, half the comments were like, dude, that's totally not what Josh was saying. | ||
| And the other half were kind of reacting sensationally to it. | ||
| But, like, the other half, even on the comments of the article, were like, you're taking him out of context. | ||
| And that was the entire extent of the controversy circling me at the time. | ||
| And then... | ||
| 45 minutes later, I still haven't even left my apartment to go into the studio yet. | ||
| 45 minutes later, my email stops working. | ||
| And I'm like, I'm not dumb, not stupid. | ||
| I'm like, they literally just shut off my email. | ||
| And then so I tried calling him and he didn't take my call. | ||
| And then an hour later, he's like, yeah, we should probably meet at the Starbucks around the corner. | ||
| And I was like, what? | ||
| You don't want me to come into the office and talk about this? | ||
| You don't want to hear my side of it? | ||
| You don't want to see what's what? | ||
| It's just... | ||
| Done. | ||
| And then they issued the statement that they made, which was, like, literally putting the match to the kerosene. | ||
| So maybe there was some kerosene. | ||
| Maybe there was some, like, potential for outrage. | ||
| And then when they fired me, it turned into this huge thing in the gaming industry around, like, was that right? | ||
| Was that wrong? | ||
| So, like, the vast majority of people who would have never even heard about that or even would have cared that I had tweeted that, kind of, like, everybody heard about it. | ||
| Mainstream heard about it. | ||
| Like, Mark Cuban started following me on Twitter. | ||
| Like, if you were... | ||
| If they were afraid the NBA was going to get pissed at us for me for weighing in on it then, you know, their kind of reaction to it made it like 50 times worse. | ||
| Yeah, I wish I was in on it when it happened. | ||
| Because I would have went crazy. | ||
|
unidentified
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And I would have tweeted and... | |
| We would have talked about it on the podcast as it happened. | ||
| I wasn't aware of it until after the fact. | ||
| But to me, it smacks of this outrage culture that we're in now, where people are just waiting for the green light to be a cunt. | ||
| And that's what it is. | ||
| It's not really that they're angry at this. | ||
| I don't believe it. | ||
| I think there's a great deal of fake outrage, recreational outrage, that we're experiencing in our culture right now. | ||
| And it's because people for the first time ever have a voice. | ||
| Instantly to talk about anything and that's what Twitter is. | ||
| That's what Facebook is. | ||
| You instantaneously can project your thoughts out to the world and people love doing it and they love being pissed off and they're most likely pissed off because of their life. | ||
| They're most likely pissed off because of their relationship or their job or their weight or, you know, whatever the fuck it is. | ||
| But they're just not balanced people, and there's a lot of them. | ||
| And they're looking to hit that fucking gas pedal when they see that green light. | ||
| Because that green light, that Josh Owens is a piece of shit, that fuck motherfucker. | ||
| He supported Donald Sterling? | ||
| How dare he? | ||
| How dare you? | ||
| Defending racism in 2015. And here's the scary thing for me, Joe, is that these people, I mean, these people, I don't want to make people sound weird, but they've always been here. | ||
| And they've only now had the microphone to talk about this. | ||
| So we as a society, society has to be better than the individual. | ||
| What I'm trying to say is that these individuals who... | ||
| You know, are fueled by that. | ||
| They've always been around. | ||
| And now we as a society need to be bigger than the individual. | ||
| And we need to look at that and understand. | ||
| We need to identify what it is, understand why it's wrong and the kind of damage and the kind of risk it presents to free thinking, free speech, and even industry. | ||
| And then we need to, you know, Change the way we're behaving very consciously, very cognizantly with everything that we do to try to suppress those feelings. | ||
| Because they're just natural tendencies. | ||
| If you try to boil it down to just the neuroscience of it, these are just emotional receptors in our brains. | ||
| It's what makes us tick. | ||
| It's why these click-baity articles like, you know, 11 crazy wonders of the world revealed after you click this link. | ||
| It's why that... | ||
| That is so successful because those appeal to the emotional centers of our brain instead of the cognitive centers of our brain. | ||
| You're being too kind. | ||
| They appeal to retards. | ||
| Say it! | ||
| Say it! | ||
| And that's what's going on. | ||
| What you're doing with Twitter and with Facebook is empowering the whole world to communicate. | ||
| And it's a beautiful thing. | ||
| It's amazing. | ||
| It was meant to be a beautiful thing. | ||
| And so as a social psychologist, I self-prescribed myself to that. | ||
| I didn't go to school for this, but I'm fascinated by it. | ||
| I try to learn everything that I can about it. | ||
| And in my position that I've been in, my whole career has been building and architecting communities and the way people interact online and on social media. | ||
| So I say this with a certain amount of self-loathing because I was kind of part of the problem building that empire up. | ||
| Now I look back at it and I think... | ||
| There's problems with this. | ||
| And it's unlocking a toxicity that is running rapid across a bunch of different issues. | ||
| And it leads to just hate and bile and venom and harassment. | ||
| For now. | ||
| I honestly believe this is a temporary step on the way to a more enlightened culture. | ||
| I really do believe this. | ||
| And I think that what we're experiencing now is... | ||
| People, when you see someone write something, like what was the name of this company that you worked for again? | ||
| Turtle Rock? | ||
| Turtle Rock. | ||
| Turtle Rock Studios, if you do not fire this man, you know, expect me to boycott your business. | ||
| You don't know who wrote that. | ||
| That guy could be shitting his pants as he wrote it. | ||
| He could be jerking off into fucking other people's soup. | ||
| He could be, you know, driving on the highway with one foot on the gas and one hand on his cell phone, the other hand on his dick. | ||
| You don't know. | ||
| We don't know who these people are. | ||
| They're words. | ||
| Anyone can type a sentence. | ||
| Anyone can type... | ||
| But you don't know... | ||
| Who that person is? | ||
| Should I consider your opinion? | ||
| We all know idiots. | ||
| We've all run into idiots in our lives that if you went to them with an opinion, you asked them a question about anything, they're likely to give you some really fucking stupid answer and you wouldn't even consider it because you go, oh, well, that's Mike. | ||
| Mike's a tool. | ||
| You know, of course he said that. | ||
| He's a fool. | ||
| And When you see Mike's words written down with a period and an exclamation point, and it looks all normal, it doesn't seem like it came from a fucking idiot. | ||
| We're used to talking to people. | ||
| I look at you, I can tell you're a reasonable, intelligent guy, we're having a wonderful conversation, and you're normal. | ||
| But if you're some fucking idiot, and you were saying the same thing that these people that are outraged about your Your tweet about John Sterling. | ||
| If you were an idiot and you were saying that, I would immediately dismiss it. | ||
| I would say, well, this guy's an idiot. | ||
| This is real simple. | ||
| But on mass and in that wave and online and social media without that context, you don't know. | ||
| And you don't know if this guy's an idiot or if he's a thought leader. | ||
| And so then all of those messages and all of those tweets and all of those hashtags, they add up and we lose the context. | ||
| I mean, we lose the forest through the trees. | ||
| We don't just do that. | ||
| It's also, these people haven't earned the ability to communicate. | ||
| They haven't earned it. | ||
| They've just found it, like I haven't earned it. | ||
| I just found it. | ||
| I mean, I stumbled upon this ability through the internet. | ||
| I mean, that's what we've all done. | ||
| You haven't really earned it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But at least you're consistent about it, right? | ||
| Your message is always fairly, fairly, coming from a very pragmatic place. | ||
| You take a look at the guy, you know, one arbitrary guy who is typing some angry shit in his Twitter feed, and you scroll back through his history and the stuff that he was complaining about just the other day or the last week, it could be in stark contrast to whatever he happened to be angry about today, right? | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Or coming from a completely different place of morals and standards that he has. | ||
| Well, that's one of the coolest things about Twitter is that when someone says something really stupid, you go to their Twitter page and go, oh, look at this amazing river of retardation that's coming out of your fat head, you know? | ||
| It's funny. | ||
| I used to have a real problem with, like, I used to get baited easily into stupid arguments and just stupid, spend hours trying to change a guy. | ||
| And I started doing that, right, where I'd click through and I'd read through. | ||
| I'm just like, this isn't worth it. | ||
| It's not worth my time. | ||
| It's almost never worth it. | ||
| It's almost never worth it. | ||
| But I think that these people have never had this ability to communicate before, and they don't think about it too much. | ||
| And I think that this power that human beings have today through social media, it's amazing. | ||
| Ultimately, it's way better than not having it. | ||
| And I think it's an amazing time, but this is how I like to put it in perspective to people. | ||
| If you're in a room with a hundred people, what are the odds that one of those people is a total fucking moron? | ||
| It's about a hundred percent. | ||
| If you have 100 people in a room, you could have 99 amazing people. | ||
| As a comic, you see this all the time. | ||
| It's the one heckler. | ||
| It's the one asshole in the room, right? | ||
| And so you just expand that out to the whole world. | ||
| Expand that out to the entire Twitter.com domain. | ||
| Well, just the whole planet. | ||
| Look at the United States of America. | ||
| If it's one out of 100, that means there's three point whatever. | ||
| Five? | ||
| What is it? | ||
| 350 million people in this country? | ||
|
unidentified
|
In America, yeah. | |
| That's three and a half million retards. | ||
| Three and a half million slobbering shitheads just pounding on their keyboards, demanding action, demanding you get fired, demanding you get reprimanded, demanding you apologize. | ||
| And over what? | ||
| Over their shitty fucking lives. | ||
| That's what it is. | ||
| But what the real problem is, is that companies like Turtle Rock are pussies. | ||
| And that they can't look at this rationally. | ||
| They can't look at this reasonably. | ||
| Two human beings. | ||
| Just like, why did you write that? | ||
| Oh, I wrote it because, you know, I feel like the invasion of privacy thing is much more important than the fact that this guy said something that was, you know, racially fucked up. | ||
| Okay, good point. | ||
| We got it. | ||
| I mean, that would be the end of it. | ||
| But you're taking these opinions from all these other people, people that are chiming in just because they're looking for that fucking green light. | ||
| They're looking to hit that gas because they're frustrated, because they're stuck in traffic all day, because their body sucks, because their girlfriend doesn't want to touch them. | ||
| Whatever the fuck... | ||
| That's their life context, but that's their shit. | ||
| Let them deal with it, right? | ||
| Don't bring repercussions on other people. | ||
| And again, me, you know, I'm fine, whatever. | ||
| I'm doing just fine. | ||
| But the kind of damage that that did to people that I cared about who were still at the company, right? | ||
| Like my friends there, my colleagues who... | ||
| Because when that all happened, like it was just that, right? | ||
| It was mostly people just yelling and angry at them for doing what they did to me, right? | ||
| Well, they should be. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| That should be the repercussion for firing someone for free speech. | ||
| And that wasn't good, though, either, right? | ||
| That was still really bad, too. | ||
| To me, that wasn't even any better, right? | ||
| No, the way it's better is you take the person who fired you, and they should be fired. | ||
| And they should be publicly flogged. | ||
| Someone should take them out with rubber dicks. | ||
| Just smack them in the face like a hundred lashes. | ||
| It's just, it's nonsense. | ||
| It's a fool's endeavor to try to please all the fucking idiots of the world and to not look at that. | ||
| I don't know how anybody can look at what you said rationally and be outraged. | ||
| You'd have to be a real fucking piece of shit to get angry at that enough to think that you should lose your ability to make a living. | ||
| You should lose your job. | ||
| But that's what people love to do. | ||
| They love to get people fired. | ||
| I mean, it's one of the... | ||
| More invasive aspects of social media. | ||
| The social justice warrior types that will try to get people fired from their job, and they will organize and attack, and they're trying to get a result. | ||
| And when they get a result, like these Turtle Rock dummies who fired you, They feel like they've claimed victory. | ||
| But there's no victory there. | ||
| You know, you went on to get a better job. | ||
| They went on to get fucked over. | ||
| The whole thing turned into a big shit fest. | ||
| And online, it became this hot point of debate. | ||
| And I think ultimately... | ||
| They should learn, and everyone should learn. | ||
| Everyone should learn. | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| What I would want to do and what I keep doing, and it didn't stop at all, by the way. | ||
| I'm okay with being the provocative guy, right? | ||
| Provocation doesn't always have to be a negative word, right? | ||
| Anytime you evoke an emotion, it's because you're saying something distinct. | ||
| You're not being just sameness and muted and average and completely agreeable. | ||
| I like being the guy who has, like, Poignant thoughts who wants to share a different angle and a different perspective with as many people as I can and just try to keep the conversation moving forward because what you end up seeing and what people are trained into doing, which happened with my whole thing, is they get trained into taking a side and then closing off the other side. | ||
| You see this a lot with... | ||
| Do you have any Facebook friends that are like some who are either super religious or some who are super atheist? | ||
| And you watch some of the arguments they get in and you watch the aftermath of them. | ||
| Like I had a diehard atheist friend of mine who would always argue with Christians, always argue with anybody who says, like, thank God for being here for me through this hard time. | ||
| He would even go on that post and argue and debate with them. | ||
| Like he's kind of just that guy. | ||
| He's that guy at the party. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| What I noticed that he would keep doing is he'd get into these arguments and then he would defriend all of the religious people. | ||
| And when I take a step back and I observe his behavior, what he's doing is he's surrounding himself with more and more like-minded people. | ||
| And he's removing any other discourse that might... | ||
| Like, you don't evolve unless you debate, unless you have a conversation, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So he's just surrounding himself with more of these like-minded people who share his ideas. | ||
| And then he's ranting and venting with those group of like-minded people about how angering the other side makes them. | ||
| So now he's not even having a debate with the other side. | ||
| He's just having this circle jerk with his own group of friends about what they assume the other side thinks and means and believes. | ||
| And so you take that... | ||
| With any issue or with any set of values that you have, it's the same thing. | ||
| Anytime that you cut off ties with another person, you could call that, well, I just surround myself with people who make me happy. | ||
| But I call that almost like, if that's the case, then you kind of forfeit the right to be mad at me for having a different opinion. | ||
| Because if you're not going to come to the table and understand what my opinion is and have a conversation with me about where I'm coming from, then you kind of lose the right to make up your mind about what I think and believe. | ||
| That's a very good point. | ||
| It's a very good point. | ||
| As long as you look at it reasonably and as long as you look at it objectively and saying, am I getting anything good out of this? | ||
| Like, for example, you arguing with these people online that you don't want to argue with. | ||
| You go to their Twitter feed, look at what they're saying to you, and you go, what am I doing? | ||
|
unidentified
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Sure. | |
| Why am I getting involved with them? | ||
| I don't want to engage with this person because it's pointless to me. | ||
| Like, in that sense, like, well, no, you don't need to let that person into your life. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's true. | |
| And if you read some ridiculous, inflammatory, stupid shit that someone's writing, you can make a value choice. | ||
| You can make a choice, like, you know what? | ||
| My time is very valuable, and I just, I want to de-friend this guy. | ||
| I don't want to be involved. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There is something that's going on in this culture that I think is happening because of this incredible new ability to communicate and form these groups of like-minded people, where you get this massive confirmation bias in these groups. | ||
| And because of that, they reject outright any notion of debate upon these issues. | ||
| And this is a big problem right now in universities. | ||
| It's a huge problem where people don't want to be offended, and they're trying to create safe spaces, and they're trying to create places where you can't say things that they might think are offensive, but you might think are totally reasonable, like your tweet. | ||
| Like, your tweet, in a lot of universities, would be deemed incredibly offensive, even though it's a legitimate subject of debate. | ||
| It's a legitimate subject of debate. | ||
| Like, why try to change this old fuck? | ||
| He's gonna be dead in a month. | ||
| What do you give a shit? | ||
| Well, why are we wasting our energy on this? | ||
|
unidentified
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Exactly. | |
| There's so many bigger issues that we face every day that we couldn't talk about. | ||
| We're involved in a lot of war right now, and yet we're worrying about Donald fucking Sterling. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| And any time that you say that, now you run the risk of, is Joe Rogan a racist? | ||
| Does he not care about race relations in the United States? | ||
| And it's like, that's not the point. | ||
| But you don't run that risk. | ||
| That's not true. | ||
| You run that risk with idiots. | ||
| It's not a reasonable risk. | ||
| It shouldn't be. | ||
| It shouldn't be, and it's not. | ||
| It's not, and that's where your company fucked up, because it's not a reasonable... | ||
| If you look at what you wrote, firing someone for that is not a reasonable reaction. | ||
| If you look at what you wrote, being infuriated at you, and wanting your job, and wanting your head, and wanting you to pay, and wanting you to publicly apologize, that's not a reasonable reaction either. | ||
| This idea that everyone has to acquiesce, that everyone has to bow down to the masses, and anytime there's anything controversial, you're best off just keeping your mouth shut. | ||
| You're best off just not communicating and not projecting your thoughts for fear of other people disagreeing, and then the hate and the anger. | ||
| What does that world look like, diluted down, generation over generation? | ||
| Is that really the world you would want to be in? | ||
| It's not America, I'll tell you that! | ||
| It's not my America! | ||
| Yeah, it's a land of pussies. | ||
| It's ridiculous. | ||
| It's just... | ||
| You said the confirmation bias is probably the best way to put it. | ||
| It's also, no pun intended, the way we look at it black and white. | ||
| We look at it like there's no gray area with a lot of these people. | ||
| So in gaming, another big issue now is feminism in Gamergate. | ||
| And so you take a feminist activist who's saying some stuff, and if you are to, which, by the way, let's say I wholly support, Equal rights, gender equality, all forms of equality. | ||
| I think people should be deemed as who they are as people and what they're saying and what they're bringing to the world. | ||
| It doesn't matter about your age, gender, sexual orientation, nothing. | ||
| But let's say that I'm talking to a feminist and she says something that I think is just wrong. | ||
| I think it's a bad opinion. | ||
| It's an opinion form based on a bias or it's an invalid stat. | ||
| And I argue with her for one second. | ||
| I'm immediately a misogynist. | ||
| I'm immediately a sexist because I opposed one point of her platform and now suddenly I'm anti-feminist. | ||
| But again, again, only to idiots. | ||
|
unidentified
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Sure. | |
| And only to people that aren't looking at things objectively and only to people that are coming into it with a bias in the first place. | ||
| But is it just idiots? | ||
| Because let's say you're that feminist, right? | ||
| Let's say you're that activist. | ||
| And let's say you're a really smart person and you've done a lot of research. | ||
| And you're a smart person, but you're so invested in your mission. | ||
| You're so invested in what you're fighting for that you forget just for one minute. | ||
| For one minute, you forget that there's another side to it, that there's other perspectives, other ways of looking at an issue. | ||
| Even just for one second, and you say something, and then a bunch of people retweet it, and then it looks bad for the guy. | ||
| In a way, that person who's the smart person, It technically influenced a lot of that negative shit from happening that then transpired. | ||
| And so in a lot of ways, it's like having a conversation with even the smart people who think that they're leading activism and they're leading the charge on things. | ||
| It's trying to educate that tier of people who can be spoken to reasonably to understand that you need to be more open-minded. | ||
| And the second that you push someone away, you're already... | ||
| You're already, like, abandoning your cause. | ||
| Your cause should be bringing more people in. | ||
| The second that you react to what someone else said and you push them away like that, you're the one doing the wrong thing. | ||
| Well, the problem with this conversation right now is that it's kind of vague. | ||
| And we're not talking about very specific statements that could be debated on their merit versus... | ||
| This idea of immediately using an ad hominem like you're a misogynist. | ||
| That is the best way to shut down any sort of debate. | ||
| Immediately call you a racist. | ||
| Immediately call you a sexist. | ||
| I mean, that's the feminism playbook. | ||
| The dumb feminism playbook. | ||
| not the intelligent feminists that look at the reality of the world and see inequality and want to correct that and don't hate men. | ||
| Like there was this woman that was doing something for Google Ideas or I forget what the exact thing was, but she was arguing with people on Twitter and one of the things she said is "I eat men for breakfast." Like, okay. | ||
| Why should that be? | ||
| You're a fucking ridiculous human. | ||
| You eat everyone of the opposite gender. | ||
| So are you in a gender war? | ||
| Do you want to create equality for women or do you actually want to make up for all the men who rejected you or shit on you or dumped you or broke your heart or whatever? | ||
| Or whatever it is. | ||
| What is it? | ||
| Is it you have picked a team and you're fighting for that team? | ||
| Like the Dolphins versus the 49ers? | ||
| Because that's what it seems like. | ||
| And that is what it is. | ||
| It's Mac versus Windows. | ||
| I mean, it's fucking Android versus iPhones. | ||
| People pick fucking teams. | ||
| They get crazy. | ||
| It's Chicago versus New York. | ||
| Fuck LA! I'm from San Francisco! | ||
| It's the same goddamn thing. | ||
| And you decide, you know, I'm a feminist and men fucking suck! | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah! | |
| Well, no, men don't suck. | ||
| Men are humans. | ||
| You know, women don't suck either. | ||
| They're humans. | ||
| Individuals in each gender suck. | ||
| And the idea that you're going to be on team vagina and it doesn't have any rotten players, you're fucking crazy. | ||
| You're crazy. | ||
| You're instantly crazy. | ||
| If any man tries to say that all men are amazing, that guy's a fucking idiot. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| Like, are you looking around? | ||
| Are you talking to people? | ||
| Have you looked at history? | ||
| Have you taken a poll recently of the opinions of these fucking guys with dicks? | ||
| It's nonsense. | ||
| There's a lot of guys who are shitheads. | ||
| Shitheads. | ||
| Absolutely terrible. | ||
| Donald Sterling's one of them. | ||
| Shitheads. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| I mean, I don't know. | ||
| I mean... | ||
| Based on what he said. | ||
| Especially in issues of equality. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| There's no side should be losing. | ||
| One side doesn't have to win and the other side having to lose. | ||
| Well, we shouldn't be on teams. | ||
| It should be the human race. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, I'm big fans of a lot of women. | ||
| I think a lot of women have achieved some fucking incredible, amazing things. | ||
| And I think there's a lot of men that I think are disgusting. | ||
| There's a lot of men I think are losers, and they're annoying, and they make excuses for their failures, and it's never about them, it's always about they got fucked over. | ||
| Like, oh, they're fucking brutal and boring and tiresome, and they are roadblocks. | ||
| They're roadblocks for conversations. | ||
| They are blood clots for progress. | ||
| I mean, there's a lot of people like that out there. | ||
| Both genders. | ||
| And I think that, you know, this whole idea of feminism... | ||
| And, you know, one of the things that happened that I thought was really hilarious... | ||
| I don't remember what it was about, but I retweeted something. | ||
| I retweet things that are provocative. | ||
| I don't agree with them. | ||
| I don't believe that a retweet should be an endorsement, I think. | ||
| But it triggers thought. | ||
| It makes people have a thought in their head for one moment of the day. | ||
| So this woman, who is a feminist, called me an MRA. So what the fuck is that? | ||
| So I had to Google it. | ||
| It's a men's rights activist. | ||
| So I'm like, hold on. | ||
| Are you really mocking me for supporting men's rights when you're a feminist? | ||
| You're mocking it. | ||
| You're openly mocking the idea of men's rights. | ||
| But meanwhile, you're supporting female rights. | ||
| This is preposterous. | ||
| You're a crazy person. | ||
| You're a crazy person lost in this constant struggle. | ||
| And then I went to her Twitter page and checked her out. | ||
| Of course, she's morbidly obese and she has pink hair. | ||
| So she's a mess, right? | ||
| But that's the real cause of all this strife and anxiety and anger. | ||
| It has virtually nothing to do with the issue itself. | ||
| These issues become green lights. | ||
| For some people, yeah. | ||
| For some people, yeah. | ||
| I completely agree. | ||
| In that particular case, it was certainly true, but I think that this feminism and gaming thing, like, boy, I don't... | ||
| I've looked at both sides of this. | ||
| It's convoluted on both ends. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| The hate that these women who are involved in video game development have gotten from men is fucking disgusting. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| I mean, the harassment, and people say, oh, the death threats aren't even real. | ||
| Like, what the fuck ever? | ||
| They still get them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's not just, I'm going to kill you. | ||
| It's so dark. | ||
| It's so toxic. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, there's way more violence being directed at them, whether it's real or not, but in print, than it is directed at the men that are supposedly the oppressors. | ||
| You're not seeing a bunch of women saying, we should get together and cut all these guys' dicks off and stuff them down their mouth and make them choke to death on it. | ||
| But this whole fucking battle, like at the root of it all, it should be a battle about... | ||
| Well, it should be... | ||
| Developing games should be about what is the best way to make a really quality game that people are going to enjoy? | ||
| And what is the best way that all these people can interact with each other? | ||
| It shouldn't be about like, well, we need 10 women because we have 10 men. | ||
| And the women should have an equal say because... | ||
| No, the men shouldn't even have an equal say. | ||
| Your ideas should stand on their own merit. | ||
| I hate the idea of quotas. | ||
| Across most issues, especially when you talk about police having quotas for the number of certain races they need to investigate. | ||
| That's wrong. | ||
| And at the same time, on the other side, with this issue, it's like, yeah, I hate the idea that you need to hire... | ||
| So many of these people just because, right? | ||
| Just to keep the balance equal. | ||
| It's a horseshit idea, and there's some real clear areas in life where you know it's a horseshit idea. | ||
| The NFL's one of them, okay? | ||
| If there was a quota in the NFL where the NFL needed a certain amount of women to play as linebackers, do you know how fucked up football would be if you needed to have, you know, how many linebackers are there? | ||
| Three. | ||
| If you needed to have at least one woman. | ||
| Do you know how fucking horrific and preposterous those games would be? | ||
| Everybody would just shoot straight for the chick and run her over. | ||
| And then you'd be accused of sexism because you keep giving that girl concussions. | ||
| But she's not qualified for that position. | ||
| That position belongs to some square-jawed fuckhead from Indiana who's been taking steroids since he was a baby. | ||
| That's the guy you want for that job. | ||
| You want some 500 pound fucking gorilla that's gonna stop people from crossing that space. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| And that's the clearest example of a quota. | ||
| And the same could be said creatively. | ||
| Like the idea that you want a certain amount of women or a certain amount of men. | ||
| Nonsense. | ||
| Nonsense. | ||
| What is the content? | ||
| What is the quality of your ideas? | ||
| How much time do you spend focusing on these ideas? | ||
| Which, by the way, has nothing to do—it's not like what you're saying is that women aren't as capable of doing that job, but what you're saying is there may not—it's not about that. | ||
| It's about who's in front of you at the time and who do you want to put in that position. | ||
| And what are you going to care about at the end of the day? | ||
| You're going to care about the contribution that's being made. | ||
| There's this amazing interview that Ronda Rousey did recently in Australia, because she's supposed to be fighting... | ||
| Well, she is fighting in a couple weeks in Australia, and it's the biggest UFC event ever. | ||
| Headlined by a woman, okay? | ||
| 70,000 seats in Australia. | ||
| And this woman does this interview, or questions her at this media scrum, and she says... | ||
| How do you feel? | ||
| We're having an issue here in Australia with equality of pay for women's football. | ||
| How do you feel about equality of pay in the UFC? It's such a stupid question because she makes more money than anyone in the sport. | ||
| She's the number one earner in the UFC. I get paid the most out of anyone in the UFC and I'm a woman. | ||
| And I don't get paid that much because Dana and Lorenzo, the owners of the company, wanted to do something nice for the ladies. | ||
| She's like, I get paid the most because I put the most asses in the seats and more people want to come to see me because I'm the best. | ||
| And when she said that, everybody cheered and they were booing when this lady had this question. | ||
| But her question's preposterous. | ||
| It's a ridiculous question because you're talking to the number one earner in the sport who happens to have a vagina. | ||
| She got there through the quality of her work and the amount of eyes that she attracts because of that work. | ||
| It's that simple. | ||
| It's that simple. | ||
| What she's been able to do, the outlier status that she has, being this beautiful woman who kicks people's asses, being unusual, it generates a significant amount of money. | ||
| So much money that she makes more money than anybody else. | ||
| So this idea that, like, you're supposed to pay women the same amount that you pay men, well, what if only half the people go to see the women? | ||
| Do you still have to pay them the same amount? | ||
| Well, that's a shitty business model, because then you're not going to make as much money. | ||
| Yeah, that's a tough way to, I mean, it's a tough way to look at it. | ||
| It's a tough concept to unpack for a lot of people, I feel like. | ||
| I don't know why. | ||
| I mean, they think that, you know, it's supposed to be one for you and one for me. | ||
| No, it's a competition. | ||
| Right. | ||
| When you get out into the marketplace. | ||
| I think the example that resonated best with me was the Jennifer Lawrence thing. | ||
| Did you read about that? | ||
| She wrote a big open letter about how she didn't get paid as much as Bradley Cooper did during the American Hustle movie. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And for a whole bunch of reasons. | ||
| And okay, that's fair. | ||
| I want to hear the argument, right? | ||
| But the argument that I heard was incomplete, right? | ||
| How about the number of lines both of them spoke in the movie, right? | ||
| How about the number of minutes How about the number of days she even went to work compared to the number of days he went to work to be on set and to do filming, right? | ||
| And so when you look at that quantitatively, you go, well, why would you be paid the same amount as him for a fourth or fifth lead role in that movie, right? | ||
| Well, you look at it quantitatively, she actually got paid more per minute than he did. | ||
| Sure, there you go. | ||
| And then what you don't hear her talking about, of course, and I don't like this argument either, because again, there's no reason that the other side needs to lose for one side to win. | ||
| It shouldn't be about that. | ||
| But of course, then you look at the new movie that she's in, where she's getting paid more than any of her male co-stars, and you don't talk about that, right? | ||
| And so it's almost like this, we get angry and outraged about things when they're convenient to be angry and outraged about, and we don't call it out on the bullshit when it's the double standard, when it's on the other side of that curve. | ||
| Well, I give her a pass because the whole world saw her asshole and it wasn't her idea. | ||
| I mean, I think she's probably emotionally wrecked because of that. | ||
| And there's also probably a lot of people in her ear telling her she got fucked over and agents and managers and all that jazz. | ||
| A lot of people say, hey, you can go out and you can talk about this. | ||
| This is the right time to talk about this, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And again, that's smart people who have figured out how to manipulate the masses' emotions into getting profit, into getting eyeballs, into getting ratings, into getting good things for them. | ||
| And I'm always against that. | ||
| Well, the argument is interesting. | ||
| You know, the argument is very interesting. | ||
| Like, who should be getting paid what? | ||
| And why should you be getting paid more? | ||
| The reality is you're gonna have a really hard time getting sympathetic voices or sympathetic ears, rather, when you're making millions of dollars. | ||
| Like, oh, I'm only making two million while he's making four or whatever the fuck it was. | ||
| Boy, cry me a river. | ||
| You're making millions of dollars and you want people to feel bad? | ||
| Like, that's kind of ridiculous. | ||
| And if you look at it in terms of the number of, like you said, the number of hours that she was on screen, but... | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| Who knows why she said that? | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| I mean, she got shit on by this reporter once because she was at some award show and she was drunk and he wrote something about it. | ||
| And she had some response to why she did it. | ||
| Fuck this guy. | ||
| You're really worried about me because I got drunk at an award show? | ||
| Fuck off. | ||
| And she's right. | ||
| 100% right there. | ||
| And would she have gotten that grief if she was a man? | ||
| I say no. | ||
| If, you know, fucking fill in the blank, if Brad Pitt had a couple of drinks at some award show and he was liquored up and laughing and being ridiculous, he could say, hey, I was just fucked up at that award show and I had a good time, but whoops, what did I say? | ||
| And no one's going to say, boy, I'm really worried about Brad Pitt. | ||
| So no one's saying that inequality doesn't exist. | ||
| It definitely exists. | ||
| And as long as we're having pragmatic conversations about it and we're staring it in the face, because it is an ugly issue, it's a scary issue, but as long as we're not taking teams and rattling pom-poms, as long as we're not just cutting off the lines and making boundaries, as long as we're constantly having that conversation and we're not looking for someone else to get hurt in the process... | ||
| Of having that conversation, then as long as we're still talking about it, we're going to be making progress. | ||
| I think what you just said is so important. | ||
| As long as you don't want other people to get hurt. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think that's a really important point of it. | ||
| That you don't want to hurt the other people. | ||
| You don't want to hurt Team Dick in order to prop up Team Vagina. | ||
| Yeah, don't make me scared to participate. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| After that whole Donald Sterling thing with me, I absolutely was scared for months. | ||
| Maybe I shouldn't tweet anymore. | ||
| But, of course, I came back to my senses and I thought, that's ridiculous. | ||
| I shouldn't feel that way. | ||
| I shouldn't be pushing away from the table because some, you know, bad shit happened to me. | ||
| That made me want to talk about things even more. | ||
| I mean, and wanting to make people learn that that's not the way you get your way or that's not the way that you make a point is by bringing someone else down. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I think it's also... | ||
| Companies get scared and they get scared of backlash and boycotts and they make executive decisions and those executive decisions are oftentimes only made in those in that context in a large company Form like that's the only time like if there's a couple of people like you're saying you don't see it Yeah, I don't see it, but I'm not going to see it. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| If I said something like that and people got upset, I'd go, whatever. | ||
| I'd say something else. | ||
| I'd say something even more outrageous. | ||
| I'll keep it going. | ||
| I don't care, because if I get fired by the UFC, I'd be like, oh well, hey guys, loved working for you. | ||
| Still support the company. | ||
| Great time. | ||
| But I'm doing five other things at the same time. | ||
| And one of the reasons why I do that, it's calculated. | ||
| I don't like... | ||
| Only having one job because I don't like worrying about losing that job. | ||
| I don't want to worry about shit, especially if I have to worry about something that would impede on my ability to speak freely. | ||
| I'm not interested. | ||
| You know, that's why I'm not interested in network gigs. | ||
| Those are not fun. | ||
| Because you have to fucking watch everything you say. | ||
| They want to take over your social media account. | ||
| That's what happens when you get on a television show. | ||
| They want to be able to tweet for you. | ||
| I was talking to Arsenio Hall recently. | ||
| He had that Arsenio Hall show that came back. | ||
| He can't get it onto his Facebook. | ||
| He couldn't use his Twitter. | ||
| They owned it. | ||
| A lot of YouTubers are going through the same stuff right now, too. | ||
| A lot of YouTubers who are signing TV deals are coming back and going, this is not what I wanted for my brand and my audience, right? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| They're stealing your people, and then they tweet for you. | ||
| And they want you to tweet promotional things, and they want you to promote your show and live tweet your show. | ||
| And, well, we'll do it for you, so they're going to do it in your voice. | ||
| This was amazing when I did this, but it's not even you! | ||
| You've got someone else saying that! | ||
| And I'm very adamant about it. | ||
| There's just automatic tweets that'll happen on my page, like if something gets uploaded to YouTube. | ||
| But if you see an opinion, and if there's an opinion or a joke, even if the joke fails, that's coming from my little fat fingers. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| That's the only way I would do it. | ||
| That's what I love when I tweeted you, too. | ||
| I asked about your producer for the show, and you're like, dude, it's me. | ||
| You're talking to me right now. | ||
| You're not talking to some other person. | ||
| Well, it's Jamie. | ||
| Jamie's over there. | ||
| You can talk to him. | ||
| But I just think we live in a strange time, and it's very important during this strange time to keep your sanity and to keep your ability to express yourself. | ||
| Because, like you said, as soon as you're afraid of speaking your opinion, as soon as you think about typing something that you really believe in, and you say, you know what? | ||
| It's not worth the risk. | ||
| I would like to keep these ones and zeros showing up in my bank account. | ||
| Let me just back off that. | ||
| Who are you then? | ||
| Because you're not who you are. | ||
| You're a slave to the system, the cliched phrase. | ||
| At that point, you're a slave to the system. | ||
| And look down three or four generations down the line of that, and what does it look like? | ||
| It's not a place that I want to live. | ||
| Fuck that. | ||
| We're all just these like... | ||
| Diluted down versions of each other that are identical and the same and don't have opinions and voices like that people don't want to hear that either They want to hear those tweets or read those tweets when you write something like that and they go yeah that is fucked up this chick just Recorded him and then not just recorded him but broadcast it to the world sold it to whatever outlets or somebody did well Everyone ended up saying what I said I was ahead of the I was way ahead of the curve I said it like like the day after it all happened right and I was the first I was the first one through the breach and I got fucking slammed for it right and Everybody ended up ultimately | ||
| having that opinion about it. | ||
| And yeah, at the end of the day, then she got sued by his now ex-wife because she was getting showered with gifts that were from her estate and all sorts of... | ||
| And it's like, yeah, you've got to realize that... | ||
| And all this is hearsay, by the way. | ||
| I don't know anything about the facts. | ||
| Allegedly is a good word to use. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Allegedly. | |
| You've got to imagine that she... | ||
| You've got to imagine that she was like... | ||
| Was trying to get some money instead of releasing those tapes. | ||
| And then Sterling was like, fuck off. | ||
| Do whatever you want with the tapes, right? | ||
| I can totally see how that happened. | ||
| Maybe that's not how it went down, but I could totally see that playing out like some episode of The Entourage, right? | ||
| Where you just don't know how... | ||
| The motives were not pure. | ||
| Yeah, an episode of The Entourage, but funny. | ||
| It's different. | ||
| I think what's going on with her and him is she's getting... | ||
| Look, it's prostitution. | ||
| It's really clear and simple. | ||
| I mean, she's not fucking that guy. | ||
| She thinks she's hot. | ||
| If you're having sex with someone, you should probably be attracted to them or be getting something out of it. | ||
| But we love that. | ||
| We love the way the real life has become an episode of any reality TV show that you've seen. | ||
| And for the same reason that reality TV is so successful, it's why Donald Trump's campaign is so successful right now. | ||
| Because it's a living, breathing incarnation of reality TV. You're absolutely right. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| And we love it, and we support it, and we vote, and we say yes, just like we would vote for reality TV. Well, it makes it exciting. | ||
| All of a sudden, instead of someone saying some canned shit that you know a team of speechwriters were, he's like, I want to put up a wall to Mexico and put my name on it! | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm like, what? | |
| What the fuck? | ||
| It becomes exciting. | ||
| We didn't take away his NBA team, did we? | ||
| No. | ||
| Does he have one? | ||
| We would if we did. | ||
| But it's a year away. | ||
| So right now it's just fun. | ||
| It's just fun silliness until it gets down to whatever fucking corporate criminals they're actually going to put into the position of actually running the country. | ||
| So right now it is reality TV. It's what it is. | ||
| It's the most interesting game in town right now. | ||
| It's a sport that everybody has to watch for whatever fucking reason. | ||
| You at least have to know the score. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, that also ultimately comes back to the mainstream media. | ||
| They're the ones who are technically leading the charge. | ||
| They're the ones who everybody is kind of queuing off of and everybody's being influenced by. | ||
| And that's also something that I'm constantly going to be at odds with. | ||
| I'm always going to fight that. | ||
| Yeah, and mainstream media itself is just a money-making machine. | ||
| This idea that mainstream media news is actually, their sole purpose is to disseminate information, to educate the masses, and to keep you informed about all the happenings in the world. | ||
| Bullshit. | ||
| It used to be that way. | ||
| Oh, it used to be that way. | ||
| It used to be. | ||
| When it was broadcast, when it was a utility. | ||
| It was essentially a utility. | ||
| Well, it still exists in the form of online journalism. | ||
| I mean, what's going on now, today, when you see something like The Guardian printing that Ed Snowden, all the revelations, when no one else wanted to touch it, I mean, he went to other people first, and they said no. | ||
| So that's real journalism. | ||
| When someone prints something incredibly controversial, but something they think is important, that's going to piss off the entire country. | ||
| WikiLeaks. | ||
| That's real journalism. | ||
| But it happens. | ||
| It happens so infrequently because they were so scared. | ||
| They were terrified. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They should be. | |
| Look, Edward Snowden's living in Russia and a fucking homeboy, the pale ghost, what the fuck's his name? | ||
| Julian Assange. | ||
| Julian Assange is holed up in a fucking embassy. | ||
| He can't leave. | ||
| He's stuck in a house. | ||
| It's all madness. | ||
| It's all madness. | ||
| I mean, those two people are arguably two of the most important figures of the 21st century when it comes to establishing what is the current state of the government when it comes to surveillance, when it comes to the spreading of actual information about what's going on in the world. | ||
| Where are we at? | ||
| Well, those two guys are responsible for two gigantic leaps of revelation. | ||
| Where everybody's had to take a step back, especially Edward Snowden. | ||
| Everybody's had to take a step back. | ||
| What the fuck is happening when I send a text message? | ||
| Am I just texting Jamie and calling him a big queen? | ||
| Or am I going to get in trouble with people? | ||
| What's going to happen? | ||
| Is someone going to read some of my joke text to one of my friends, take it out of context, and get me fired for that? | ||
| But that's the world we live in today. | ||
| We live in a very weird time. | ||
| And in these weird times, The idea that CNN is gonna kick you the fucking real deal. | ||
| They're gonna drop the real knowledge on Fox News. | ||
| They don't give a fuck about you. | ||
| They're just trying to sell commercials. | ||
| It's all they're doing. | ||
| And every time that you click on one of those clickbaity articles, every time you click on one of those sensational tweets and hit their page, you're part of the problem. | ||
| You're the one positively reinforcing that business model. | ||
| In a way, I think, honestly, that it's beautiful that they operate in this way because they're sealing their own demise. | ||
| I really do believe that. | ||
| I believe Fox News and CNN and all these people are ultimately there on a path they can't get off, and that path... | ||
| Leads to being irrelevant. | ||
| It's gonna happen. | ||
| How long is that burn though, man? | ||
| Because I know right when social media came out, when Twitter was invented and when Facebook was invented, people were saying the same thing. | ||
| They're like, is this the end of media? | ||
| How long has it been around? | ||
| It's only been around a couple of years. | ||
| In a couple of years, we've seen some massive changes. | ||
| I mean, really incredible, and some bad, like what happened to you. | ||
| But I think that what that is, is this newfound ability. | ||
| This newfound ability that people didn't earn, and they just have, and they're irresponsible with it. | ||
| They don't know what they're doing with it. | ||
| They also don't understand what communication... | ||
| What it really means, and they're not taking into account how other people are going to perceive them. | ||
| Here's a perfect example. | ||
| Justine Sacco. | ||
| You know her story. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Everyone knows her story. | ||
| If you don't know it, she was a publicist. | ||
| She was about to get on a plane to go to Africa, and she goes, I'm going to Africa. | ||
| Hope I don't get AIDS. Just kidding. | ||
| I'm white. | ||
| LOL. LOL. And she went to sleep, woke up in Africa, fired, and the whole world hated her. | ||
| And she deleted her Twitter account, and she still hasn't recovered. | ||
| I mean, does she work for some game company now that just got in trouble? | ||
| What is it? | ||
| Say it again? | ||
|
unidentified
|
FanDuel. | |
| She works for FanDuel? | ||
| FanDuel. | ||
| And she got in trouble recently. | ||
| What happened? | ||
| She didn't get in trouble. | ||
| Her name just came out because they've got in trouble. | ||
| And she's speaking for them as their publicist. | ||
| Oh, but how hilarious is that? | ||
| You know? | ||
| Well, yeah. | ||
| They're amidst... | ||
| It's kind of like me whenever I come to another company, right? | ||
| It's like I have to, of course, answer that question and people are talking about, oh, XYZ company hired Josh Olin again, right? | ||
| Yeah, but what you said was nothing like what she said. | ||
| But what she said, she had like fucking 10 followers. | ||
| She thought she was being funny. | ||
| She's probably on Xanax or something like that. | ||
| At the end of that, it's a shitty joke. | ||
| Whatever. | ||
| It's a shitty joke. | ||
| We've all had shitty jokes. | ||
| You've had plenty in your career. | ||
| A fuckload. | ||
| I'm not a comedian and I have shitty jokes at the time. | ||
| And Twitter, you know... | ||
| It doesn't matter if you don't agree with what she said. | ||
| You shouldn't want what happened to her to have happened to her. | ||
| Yes, exactly. | ||
| And people wanted it. | ||
| They wanted it so badly. | ||
| They were calling for it. | ||
| They were putting her head on a pike and demanding it. | ||
| There was another girl, I can't remember her name, but she took a picture in front of... | ||
| She was at the Arlington Cemetery or something. | ||
| She was in front of a sign that said, like, no shouting or quiet, please. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Quiet, please be respectful. | ||
| Some sign like that. | ||
| And so she took a picture in front of her where she was pretending like she was yelling. | ||
| And, you know, just because that's what she thought was funny. | ||
| Now, she put it online and it went crazy because people were talking about how she was disrespecting our troops and our soldiers and the lost ones, right? | ||
| And then, of course, she goes out and talks about it. | ||
| She goes, if you look at my page... | ||
| That's just what I do whenever I see a sign. | ||
| When I see a sign that says no smoking, I put up a fake cigarette in my lips. | ||
| When I see a sign that says no soliciting, I pretend like I'm soliciting. | ||
| It's her shtick is she just does the opposite thing that signs say. | ||
| And when you understand that context, you realize she's just being funny. | ||
| Why would she lose her job over that? | ||
| Did she lose her job? | ||
| I don't know, actually. | ||
| I don't know enough about it. | ||
| I shouldn't be talking out of my ass right now. | ||
| But whatever. | ||
| There was outrage. | ||
| It was a big thing. | ||
| There was a big thing. | ||
| And that's why I had a comment. | ||
| And of course I defended her. | ||
| And she was doing media and whatnot. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| It's insane. | ||
| But again, it's just the green light. | ||
| It's all it is. | ||
| It's just cunts hitting the gas. | ||
| And they just say, I found one! | ||
| We found a target! | ||
| Go shoot! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh! | |
| Fire her! | ||
| Fire her! | ||
| That's what it is. | ||
| When the cease of the lion thing happened, there was a New York Times article that a man from Zimbabwe wrote, and it's, uh, in Zimbabwe we do not cry for lions. | ||
| And he talked about lions that have killed his family. | ||
| The guy lost his leg to a poisonous snake bite, the guy who wrote the article. | ||
| I mean, he's like, his take was like, look, Africa, the wild of Africa is not your friend. | ||
| It's fucking terrifying. | ||
| It's beautiful to behold, but it is absolutely terrifying. | ||
| So this idea that you call this lion Cecil and that we're all crying because we lost Cecil. | ||
| Fuck Cecil! | ||
| You know? | ||
| I mean, that's what he's saying. | ||
| All I did, I mean, all I did was retweet that article. | ||
| And I got so many fucking people that were angry at me. | ||
| What was the article? | ||
| What was the angle of the article? | ||
| And the article was, In Zimbabwe, We Do Not Cry for Lions. | ||
| That was the title of the article. | ||
| It was written by... | ||
| I don't know if he was a student. | ||
| I forget. | ||
| But he's living in America, but he's from Zimbabwe. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, we don't understand. | ||
| We have no perspective outside of our bubble that we live in. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Well, also, this guy is just giving his point of view as a person who's from Zimbabwe. | ||
| I mean, this is his... | ||
| All I did was retweet the article. | ||
| So many fucking people were angry at me. | ||
| They were so mad at me. | ||
| I can't believe you're supporting this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know, what that guy did was he's a piece of shit and a murderer. | |
| As if you just went and stepped on a kitten. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| I'm hitting kittens with baseball bats over the fence into your yard. | ||
| Like, it's... | ||
| It's just a green light. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| It's this endorphin drip that we seek. | ||
| And we get it through this feedback loop of... | ||
| Well, we get it through anger. | ||
| Anger releases it. | ||
| And we get it through the feedback loop of seeing someone else paying for something that you didn't agree with or that you didn't like. | ||
| And I'm sometimes too much of an optimist. | ||
| But I'm also... | ||
| I try to look at things... | ||
| Objectively outside the context of culture and what we expect of today and I look to the future and what I'm looking at is there's a trend and the trend is from the moment that human beings invented language To the time they started writing things down to the time they started distributing that written word to the time They figured out how to broadcast and how to get ideas out there through television and radio to the internet What I'm seeing is The trend is | ||
| a shorter distance between human beings. | ||
| The trend is connectivity. | ||
| And I think, ultimately, we're dealing with this adolescent period in this connectivity where all these people that have never thought about the idea of projecting these words... | ||
| Like, if you get a guy like Brian Williams on TV and he's bullshitting about going to Iraq, that's a guy that's responsible for his words, okay? | ||
| That's a guy that's a professional broadcaster. | ||
| He should know what he's saying when he gets on television. | ||
| He sees that red light. | ||
| He's getting paid to do that. | ||
| He's getting paid. | ||
| He's prepared for it his entire fucking life. | ||
| That's a guy who understands the repercussions of his words. | ||
| The average person has the same ability to reach human beings as Brian Williams. | ||
| When Justine Sacco wrote that tweet, she probably reached as much people, or as many people, as Brian Williams did when he lied about getting shot down in Iraq. | ||
| It's probably incredibly similar. | ||
| And that's a new thing. | ||
| That is a really, really, really new thing. | ||
| I think as it gets closer and closer, it's going to move from the written word, it's going to move from type and video, and it's going to be some sort of a brain-to-brain interface. | ||
| And when that starts happening, and I don't think we're far away from that, I think we're a decade or two at most, when that starts happening, this is all going to be bullshit. | ||
| I'm going to be able to read your thoughts. | ||
| I'm not going to wonder whether or not You know, you're reacting because you were beaten as a child or your boyfriend dumped you. | ||
| I'm going to know. | ||
| And we're gonna know each other in a really weird, intense, intimate way that I don't think we could possibly understand today. | ||
| No. | ||
| If you talk to people that live during the fucking... | ||
| during the Inquisition, and you told them about Twitter. | ||
| Walk up to them and hand them this device and see what they do. | ||
| So they'd shoot you for witchcraft. | ||
| Well, they didn't have guns. | ||
| They'd fucking stab you, or they'd fucking... | ||
| whatever. | ||
| But... | ||
| We're gonna look at something like that something in the future and probably the fairly fairly I want to say no more than 20 years. | ||
| I think it's in our lifetimes. | ||
| That might be ambitious. | ||
| Well, maybe not. | ||
| When I look at people, one of my idols is like Elon Musk. | ||
| When I look at a truly visionary person who's also a really smart dude, just a genius on every level. | ||
| When a guy like him is talking about AI scaring him. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And when he's going, it scares me. | ||
| I'm going, I should probably be scared too. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Because, and when you think about, yeah, with the way that we're already right now, like, fusing, you know, computer chips in with brains and helping to restore language centers. | ||
| Well, what happens when that AI computer chip can directly interface with your brain and learn about it and learn about its circuitry and understand it in a way that, and at a rate that we, it took us this many years to learn, and it's going to learn it overnight and in a second. | ||
| Yeah, that's a scary idea. | ||
| I did a podcast with Sam Harris recently, and the last half hour of the podcast was all about AI. | ||
| It was all about a conference that he had want to. | ||
| And he had gone to this conference with one idea about what AI was and left terrified and left saying, well, this is not just something to be fearful of. | ||
| This is something inevitable. | ||
| And Elon Musk's statement that we're summoning the demon was just horrific. | ||
| That's a terrifying thought. | ||
| Chilling that it came from the mouth of such a smart dude, too. | ||
| But it's going to happen! | ||
| I think we are... | ||
| I mean, my way of describing it, and I've been talking about this for a long time, that I think we are some sort of an electronic cocoon. | ||
| We are the electronic caterpillar that's going to become the butterfly. | ||
| We are developing into something. | ||
| Like, when a... | ||
| When a caterpillar creates a cocoon, it doesn't know what the fuck it's doing. | ||
| It's not reading manuals. | ||
| It didn't go to school for it. | ||
| It's not like meeting together with other caterpillar support groups and, are you prepared for your transition into butterfly-dom? | ||
| No, they just fucking do it. | ||
| They don't even know why they're doing it. | ||
| This is the next thing that I do now, is I make this cocoon. | ||
| I think that's what we're doing. | ||
| I think that's what we're doing. | ||
| Our obsession with technology, our obsession with innovation, I really firmly believe that we are fueling, even through our obsession with materialism. | ||
| Because materialism, ultimately, you always want the biggest, best thing. | ||
| The newest, latest, greatest. | ||
| And the companies have to keep up. | ||
| So they're all competing. | ||
| You know, Nexus has to come up with a better phone because the iPhone 6S is out. | ||
| And then, you know, fucking boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. | ||
| And it keeps going faster and faster and faster until... | ||
| You're getting your dick sucked by a robot, you know? | ||
| And then that robot is deciding that it wants to take over your house and turn it into a nuclear fusion center. | ||
| I mean, who the fuck knows what a hundred years from now looks like or a thousand years from now looks like? | ||
| But I think that what we're seeing with all this electronic outrage and all these people communicating, we're seeing these initial blips of this newfound ability to communicate. | ||
| This newfound awakening. | ||
| It's an important step in the process of what you're saying. | ||
| It's inevitable. | ||
| But I think that I'm very optimistic about where that's going to lead. | ||
| I think the beauty is, and if we all realize that we're all just human beings and that competition is actually good because the real competition is with yourself to do your best and you are inspired by other people who are doing their best, you compare yourself to them and instead of shitting on them, instead of trying to put them down, You look at them and get inspired, or maybe not. | ||
| Maybe you say, I appreciate the amount of effort that person's done, but I don't want to work 12 hours a day. | ||
| I don't think that's smart. | ||
| I would rather surf. | ||
| I think surfing's the way to go. | ||
| I mean, I think I have 80 years on this planet if I'm lucky. | ||
| I want to enjoy them in as richly fulfilling a way as possible. | ||
| And you should be able to do that. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Are you familiar with a guy named Jacques Fresco? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, he does the Venus Project and all about resource-based economies. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, he simply, you know, he talks about it like we have enough resources on the planet to sustain every human being that we will have for a long time. | ||
| Equally, fairly, and they could do whatever they want as long as we got rid of the dollar. | ||
| As long as we got rid of the need to earn a dollar and to amass these dollars and to spend them and to enhance your life through them, if you take an inventory management system that Walmart has or Amazon has and scale it up to a global level and you inventory every blade of grass, every tree, every piece of wood, every raw material that we have, and then you create a system for distributing that equally and freely so that anybody can have anything at any time that they want, that's a fucking great utopia. | ||
| The problem with that is it removes incentive. | ||
| There's a reason why people work hard. | ||
| One of the reasons why people work hard is because they want to get ahead. | ||
| That's the idea, right? | ||
| You want to have a nice home. | ||
| You want to create a book. | ||
| You want to put together a project that ultimately... | ||
| Reaches a lot of people like when you're creating a game. | ||
| How many people do you think would make that game if there was no money involved in it? | ||
| That's our incentive now, but maybe there would be a different incentive surface because you already see that in current day capitalism. | ||
| You see like a teacher. | ||
| A teacher isn't doing what she does for the money. | ||
| You know, surgeons aren't arguably doing... | ||
| Highly specialized surgeons aren't doing it for the money. | ||
| They're doing it for maybe they had a child afflicted by a disease or researchers who do all this stuff, right? | ||
| They don't live extravagant lives, but they love to research, they love to solve problems. | ||
| I think maybe there are enough people in the planet who... | ||
| Are passionate about doing things or could want to do something for a higher reason than just money? | ||
| There's always going to be some that do, but what percentage of our population are surgeons that do things specifically because they had a child afflicted by a disease? | ||
| It's incredibly minute. | ||
| What percentage of our population is teachers That just want to help children. | ||
| It's not that big. | ||
| It's small. | ||
| And I think most people are out there struggling because they want a Lexus. | ||
| Most people are out there, they want to move into the house down the block. | ||
| These are not wise choices in a lot of ways because they're not engineering their life in a way that's harmonious or that's really going to prepare them for a long, healthy, happy life. | ||
| They're just rat wheeling it. | ||
| They're just hamster wheeling it, just fucking spinning and trying to collect shit until they die. | ||
| But I think ultimately that's like our transition from living as apes, trying to compete against the other apes in order to fuck and make babies. | ||
| And then you get eaten by a jaguar to live in an apartment in Los Angeles in 2015 and finding out that you got fired because you made something on Twitter that upset people. | ||
| I mean, there's a transition involved there, and the radical transition of our environment changing, when you juxtapose that with our physical transition, boy, we're not much fucking different than we were a thousand years ago. | ||
| No. | ||
| But the world sure as fuck is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You'd be a fascinating guy to discuss, like, the Fermi paradox with, I feel like. | ||
| Because you said you're optimistic, so, like, is that the ultimate doom for humanity? | ||
| I don't think there's an ultimate doom. | ||
| I think humanity... | ||
| Look, if you went back to the Neanderthal days and said, listen, you guys are fucked. | ||
| Let's just enjoy your time here. | ||
| Keep throwing those fucking spears at woolly mammoths. | ||
| But ultimately, you ain't gonna make it. | ||
| What would they do? | ||
| Would they carry on? | ||
| Would they keep going? | ||
| Would you went back to the ancient hominids that were living in Africa that had just climbed down from the trees and started experimenting with new food sources and trying to figure out tools? | ||
| Would you say, hey, look, guys, I know you're trying real hard to keep your family alive, but your family's fucked. | ||
| You people are fucked. | ||
| Even if you figured out shoes, you still have thumbs in your feet, you're not gonna make it. | ||
| There's going to be some new thing that comes after you that's going to be awesome. | ||
| It's going to have a goatee. | ||
| It's going to be talking on a microphone on a podcast. | ||
| That's you. | ||
| If you were standing in the savannas of Africa 300,000 years ago when our ancient hominid ancestors first started traveling around and figuring out hunting and all sorts of other things, you would look like a goddamn alien. | ||
| If you walked out holding onto your phone and started taking pictures of them, How much different would that be than a spaceship landing in Washington, D.C., and then coming out with a ray gun and making duplicates of people? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It would be probably less ridiculous if the aliens did that than you showing up in Africa half a million years ago. | ||
| But I think we would react to it differently than Africa half a million years ago would have reacted to that. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| But I think that our future is like the alien that comes down and reproduces people with a laser. | ||
| I mean, I think our future is... | ||
| I think that's why the alien archetype exists. | ||
| I'm very pessimistic or very cynical when it comes to the idea of alien invasion. | ||
| The idea that we've been abducted, the people have come here, or beings have come here from another planet. | ||
| It's more likely in my mind that that archetype exists because we're extrapolating. | ||
| We're going from looking at gorillas to looking at people to looking at, well, what are we going to become? | ||
| We'll become this big-headed thing with very little use for muscle and tissue. | ||
| We're probably going to communicate telepathically. | ||
| We're not going to need mouths or vocal cords. | ||
| And we're probably not even going to need sex. | ||
| Because we're probably going to reproduce through some sort of a genetic replication process created by scientists. | ||
| That's probably our future. | ||
| It's probably going to be more efficient, more healthy. | ||
| Our monkey bodies that need sex, we need to come and we need to feed it with food and all that. | ||
| We're kind of prisoners to that. | ||
| And I think slowly but surely, if you can prove that people can be more harmonious or more happy or more healthy or whatever the fuck would be the benefit in evolving past that, I think it's almost inevitable. | ||
| I think that's when you look at this idea of this big-headed thing with a little skinny body. | ||
| Fuck, man. | ||
| It's kind of obvious. | ||
| This is where we're going. | ||
| We're becoming more and more slender. | ||
| We look at us in comparison to all the other animals. | ||
| If you grab your dog's fur, grab his skin, it's fucking tough. | ||
| It's like they could bite each other and they don't even get hurt that much. | ||
| If you got bit by a dog, you're fucked, man. | ||
| But dogs, like two dogs would get mad at each other at a dog park, and they bite each other and everybody's okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They just walk off. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| He'd put a little fucking, you know, little rubbing alcohol on his little ouchie, and he's fine. | ||
| And two days later, that doesn't even look like a hole anymore. | ||
| We'd be fucked. | ||
| And I think our soft... | ||
| Fleshy bodies, we're reacting to the lack of need to be hard. | ||
| You don't need fangs anymore. | ||
| You don't need a tough hide. | ||
| What you need is a big brain. | ||
| And what you need is technological innovation in order to catch up to this incredible electronic world that we've created. | ||
| But again, only a small, a tiny fraction of our society will be a part of that evolution. | ||
| The vast majority are just going to be along for the ride for that. | ||
| So what does that mean for them? | ||
| Why would they be along for the ride? | ||
| I think a tiny fraction can create that. | ||
| But just like... | ||
| How many people use cell phones? | ||
| How many people use the internet? | ||
| It's not a tiny fraction. | ||
| It's the vast majority. | ||
| And I think ultimately that's what's going to happen to the entire species. | ||
| I think the vast majority are going to be privy to the incredible innovations of tiny, small, few people like Elon Musk. | ||
| Those are the ones, those innovators, those geniuses. | ||
| I hope so, man. | ||
| And it couldn't come any sooner, honestly. | ||
| Or an asteroid. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Or an asteroid. | |
| We need to be thinking way bigger than we are right now. | ||
| I mean, you look at issues even like climate change, right? | ||
| It's a bigger issue than just the United States. | ||
| It's a global issue, and the sooner that we can get on board on a global agenda, but man, did we get far removed from the way this conversation started. | ||
| We did, but we didn't, because I think ultimately what we're talking about when we're talking about this outrage, this Twitter outrage, I think ultimately what it really boils down to is a bunch of people That are being unreasonable, and they're communicating in this unreasonable way, but they're just, they're out there. | ||
| There's a lot of them. | ||
| Most people, like, what percentage of people do you think really commented on that and got outraged? | ||
| On the scheme of, like, America? | ||
| Or the planet? | ||
| Less than 1%. | ||
| Way less. | ||
| Less than one tenth of one tenth of one percent. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| It's a tiny amount. | ||
| So most people, this is what I think, across every issue, every communications issue, there's a general challenge. | ||
| It's hard to think critically. | ||
| Critical thinking is not an easy thing to do. | ||
| And I think that for a lot of people, like, take for example, when two galaxies collide together, what... | ||
| Describe what it looks like. | ||
| Describe what happens if you live through that. | ||
| When you pose that question... | ||
| There's no living through that. | ||
| No, there's... | ||
| When I pose the question to some people, that's usually the answer, right? | ||
| They go, oh, two galaxies collide and it's just shit crashing at each other and planets exploding and suns eating other stars and black holes eating each other. | ||
| And the reality, though, when you think about and when you judge the magnitude of the distances between those objects, the reality is statistically it's unlikely any two object would impact at all. | ||
| They'll come close and you're going to have some gravitational effects, but the odds that any two object actually collides is really, really, really small. | ||
| I think that when, you know, you pose that question to a lot of people, they imagine this apocalyptic scenario, but it's just, it's because they have a tough time estimating things. | ||
| They have a tough time thinking outside of their bubble, outside of their own consciousness, into like, you know, What could that be? | ||
| It's why Google used to have that interview question, that famous one, like, how many golf balls would fit in this school bus, right? | ||
| And a lot of people criticize that as like, ah, what a dumb question. | ||
| That doesn't have to do anything. | ||
| And it's like, well, they want to know, do you say a million, a billion, or a hundred thousand, right? | ||
| They want to know at what scale are you able to estimate the size of an object? | ||
| Because that just gives like a real quick feedback as to like, where are you on the critical thinking level? | ||
| So I think that when you apply that to what we were talking about today, I think that a lot of people have a tough time, and myself included, have a tough time estimating and oftentimes taking a step back from whatever their current daily issue is, whatever their current stress is, whatever their current endorphin release they're seeking is, whatever their current thought is, and they have a tough time always keeping in perspective. | ||
| Perspective's the key here. | ||
| Keeping in perspective what the rest of The universe is and the world is and and the other people even just next door to you are going through well There was an article that I tweeted today from Yahoo from the UK Evidence of the multiverse. | ||
| We might have just bumped into another universe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hmm. | |
| What was the evidence? | ||
| Prepare yourself. | ||
| Because, you know, it's one of those things you have to read like four or five times in order to really figure out... | ||
| Wait, what are you saying? | ||
| So you empathize with me here. | ||
| You've been through those nights where you click like 14, 15 links deep in Wikipedia and you get done and you're like... | ||
| Four hours have gone by and you're like, fuck, I'm fried. | ||
| I need to go to bed right now. | ||
| Or I'll watch documentaries on hypernovas or something like that. | ||
| And you try to... | ||
| Wrap your head around the idea of a star exploding and taking out the entire solar system or many other solar systems nearby and the fact that this is happening millions of times a day all throughout the universe. | ||
| There was a documentary that they had I don't remember was science channel or what channel was on but where Scientists at one point in time were concerned that there was a war going on in space Because they were recognizing these gamma bursts these incredible bursts of massive amounts of energy and they were happening at a in a repeated fashion all throughout the sky and They had to try to figure out what the fuck was going on. | ||
| Is there an alien war like this is like, you know What could this be? | ||
| Many decades ago. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And slowly but surely, they started figuring out, like, oh my god, these are exploding stars. | ||
| These are novas. | ||
| And they happen all the time. | ||
| And if it happens close by, that's a wrap, civilization. | ||
| That's a wrap, world. | ||
| That's a wrap, oxygen. | ||
| No more water. | ||
| No, no, no, you're not going to need that. | ||
| No. | ||
| It's all gone. | ||
| And that is the reality of the cosmos all throughout the sky. | ||
| When we look up there, look up at infinity, somewhere out there, an impossible distance away from us... | ||
| A star's exploding. | ||
| And that's what they do. | ||
| Jason Silva, cool astrophysicist guy. | ||
| I know Jason. | ||
| Yeah, he does awesome YouTube videos. | ||
| He takes this incredibly difficult science and communicates in a way that we emotionally respond to. | ||
| And I love that. | ||
| And he was just talking about, like, he said one line in one of his videos somewhere where he was like, up there... | ||
| That's not an up there, far away place. | ||
| You're in the middle of it. | ||
| You're in the middle of the universe right now. | ||
| And even our galaxy, right? | ||
| We have these paintings of what the Milky Way galaxy looks like. | ||
| A lot of times people don't even ever have the thought, they would never need to even think about this, that we don't have a picture of what our galaxy looks like. | ||
| We have an artist rendition of what we think our galaxy looks like, but the furthest craft we have is barely out of our own sun belt. | ||
| It's out of our own gravitational pole from our own sun. | ||
| So... | ||
| Again, just perspective. | ||
| We're not even looking at it from outside. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Not yet. | |
| Yeah, our photos, it won't happen anytime inside of our lifetimes. | ||
| No. | ||
| Unless we figure out how to bypass the speed of light. | ||
| That EM drive thing, man. | ||
| Yeah, and even then, we're talking about hundreds of millions of light years. | ||
| Right, so even going at the speed of light, it's going to take a hundred million years. | ||
| The most mind fucky statistic that I ever saw in one of these documentaries was they were talking about the possibility of each hole. | ||
| They were talking about the relative size of supermassive black holes and that every galaxy has a supermassive black hole that's one half of 1% of the mass of the galaxy. | ||
| The larger the galaxy, the larger the black hole. | ||
| And they're speculating that inside that black hole may be a whole nother universe with completely different laws, and that inside that universe may be other galaxies that have supermassive black holes at their center, and inside those supermassive black holes there are other universes. | ||
| So in our hundreds of billions of galaxies, There may be hundreds of billions of individual universes inside of those. | ||
| And when you go inside of them, there's hundreds of billions of more individual galaxies with hundreds of billions of more individual universes inside of them. | ||
| And that is ultimately intensely fractal. | ||
| And it is truly infinite in that sense. | ||
| And which one of those are we in right now? | ||
| Yeah, it's mind-fucky. | ||
| But Cecil was a lion and he lived in Zimbabwe and he was loved! | ||
| Donald Sterling's a piece of shit! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Don't joke about AIDS if you're white! | |
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Our lack of perspective is alarming, but fuck, it makes sense. | ||
| I mean, we still have these goddamn monkey bodies. | ||
| And I think that's ultimately going to be the big pull or the big appeal of transcending this physical embodiment that we carry our consciousness in. | ||
| And then accepting this idea of a symbiotic relationship with some sort of microchips and Fucking fiber optic lines or whatever the hell it's gonna take form of I mean, we're essentially symbiotically connected to technology already with glasses You know we need these fucking things that we've created that cover over our eyes to see better or With phones man. | ||
| I left my house the other day. | ||
| I got a hundred yards from my door and went shit Shit! | ||
| My phone! | ||
| It was like I left my baby on the roof. | ||
| Like, I had to turn around. | ||
| Like, I was terrified. | ||
| I mean, that's ridiculous. | ||
| I can't just go somewhere and borrow someone's phone and call my wife and go, hey, I left my phone at home. | ||
| I'll be home in a couple hours. | ||
| Fuck that! | ||
| Well, that's why when you say that over the timeline, you've seen we're getting closer and closer, the connections, more people are getting connected, and we're getting connected with more people and closer. | ||
| I agree technologically, but I feel like in the real physical world that we live in, we're getting further apart. | ||
| And we look at people's lives on social media, like on Instagram and Facebook, and all the models who are coming out right now with their posts about... | ||
| Instagram models posting about what you don't see, the side of it you don't see, right? | ||
| The hundred shots that it took her to get that perfect photo and the argument she got in with her sister over take one more, take one more, take one more before she got that perfect one that you're then liking and you're then trying to compare your life to. | ||
| We are pushing our real connections and real personal lives. | ||
| First of all, we're judging ourselves based by this impossible, unattainable standard on social media that That, you know, if someone takes a bad picture, they don't upload it. | ||
| They delete that one and they take a better picture. | ||
| And they take a better one and better one and better one until that's the one that it doesn't even look... | ||
| It hardly looks like them anymore. | ||
| And now we're expected to measure us looking at the mirror against that perfectly lit, perfectly critiqued, careful image of what we think our next best person is like. | ||
| And that's got some really weird implications to evolution. | ||
| I'll give you one example real quick with Instagram is... | ||
| I have a little sister and I'm terrified of when every time she gets in another social media account because I'm like, oh no, like, you know, where is this going to lead? | ||
| When I think about young kids, let's say impressionable teenagers who are going through the most important biological and neurological development phase of what will be their adult life, they're coming into their identity. | ||
| And they have access to this dopamine drip, this endorphin drip in their brain that generations before never had that kind of access to. | ||
| When a girl can upload a photo onto Instagram and start refreshing the dozens of, you're hot baby, sexy baby, nice smile, pretty girl. | ||
| And she does that during a time when she's otherwise dealing with a difficult, conflicting emotion inside of her. | ||
| And that's now her drug. | ||
| That's her escape from otherwise facing that reality. | ||
| And growing through it the way generations before did. | ||
| I'm not saying it's necessarily bad or wrong. | ||
| Maybe this is a better way to go through that stage of your life. | ||
| But maybe it's not. | ||
| Maybe that's bad that you can so easily bypass all that hard shit you would have otherwise had to have dealt with internally. | ||
| What is that doing to evolution? | ||
| We don't know. | ||
| We won't know for a long time until we look back on it and go, that was probably not great. | ||
| Or maybe we look back on it and go, that's what led us to where we are. | ||
| But it's got to have some impact. | ||
| And that kind of stuff, you know... | ||
| I deal with on a daily basis as I try to figure out, like, how do I want to bring my games on these platforms? | ||
| And I want my games to interact with people in these ways. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, we really don't know. | ||
| We're just guessing. | ||
| These children are guinea pigs. | ||
| Right. | ||
| They're growing up in this weird world. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, I grew up in a world where you could bullshit. | ||
| You could lie. | ||
| Nobody knew. | ||
| You couldn't just Google. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, the earth is only fucking 35 miles across, dude. | |
| Don't worry about it. | ||
| Like, now people Google it and they go, you're an idiot. | ||
| It's 24,000 miles, dummy. | ||
| Like, you're the smart one now. | ||
| Exactly, because you Googled it. | ||
| I think I have this other thought about these things and this progression, and I think that we look at the world, we look at everything that's going on, whether it's butterflies or elk or eagles or caterpillars, and we look at it all and we say, well, that's nature. | ||
| But we look at ourselves and because we're conscious and because we can make choices and because we can objectively look at the risks versus rewards of each decision and debate it amongst each other and seek advice from peers, we don't think of it as natural. | ||
| We think of it as something that we can manipulate and something that we can change and that we can alter. | ||
| But I think that human behavior might just be ultimately the most complex version of the natural world that we know. | ||
| And that all of our behavior, all the stuff that we're doing, whether it's our rampant materialism, our obsession with attention and technology, All this stuff is leading to what I said before, this electronic caterpillar. | ||
| I think that what we're doing right now is totally natural. | ||
| And this obsession with checking your likes on your ass pic to make sure that everybody thinks you're hot, this is... | ||
| This is all just going to fuel your desire to get a better camera. | ||
| It's going to fuel your desire to get a new phone or to support the newest social media platform that's going to allow your ass to shake in a much more enticing way that's going to get you even more likes and hearts and fucking thumbs ups and emojis. | ||
| I think it's natural. | ||
| I really do. | ||
| I mean... | ||
| I don't know what we can do about it other than communicate our concerns about the potential downfalls of this behavior and this kind of thing. | ||
| Confront the negative. | ||
| Don't shy away from it. | ||
| Confront it. | ||
| Solve the negative problems that are coming with it as well. | ||
| Keep an open mind about it and never stop communicating because as soon as we do that, we've lost. | ||
| We've lost sight of what the goal was. | ||
| And that's what's a huge problem with that company firing you because they impeded on your ability to communicate and You communicated in a very concise, objective, analytical way. | ||
| You looked at the problem and said, look, this guy, he has every right to be an old bigot in the privacy of his own home. | ||
| The fact that you got in trouble for that... | ||
| It shows the repercussions and the downfalls of this new time. | ||
| And when we stop communicating. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And especially when, well, also when you let in too many voices. | ||
| Like, how about you and that guy sitting down? | ||
| You and that guy that wanted to fire you? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Have a sit down and have a fucking conversation. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, don't shut off my email, stupid. | ||
| Like, what are you doing? | ||
| Meet at Starbucks? | ||
| How about fuck you? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| I mean, wouldn't you have loved to have a few million bucks in the bank right then? | ||
| Oh, boy. | ||
| And just go, suck my dick. | ||
| Oh boy. | ||
| And then just go online and just do a YouTube video. | ||
| Listen to what this dummy just tell me. | ||
| Well, I did that. | ||
| They were trying to dangle severance and stuff. | ||
| Dangle it? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I said fuck no to that. | ||
| When that whole thing was unfolding, it got a lot. | ||
| So a lot of media outlets, I linked you to the Opie and Anthony, they talked about it, and they completely held my back, obviously, because those guys are super level-headed people. | ||
| But the media shitstorm that started to unfold, CNN, Fox News, everybody, every major outlet was reaching out to me, trying to get me to come on their show. | ||
| And I was sitting at a Crossroads. | ||
| I'm a communications professional. | ||
| I knew that. | ||
| And I had seen what happened to Justine Sacco. | ||
| I think that happened before me. | ||
| And I was well aware of where this could go for me in my career and my personal life. | ||
| So I realized that, you know, I need to take control of the PR shitstorm. | ||
| I need to be the one who makes the right moves while the company makes all the wrong moves. | ||
| And I need to get this back on track. | ||
| So they didn't, you know, part of their terms, they didn't want me to do any media appearances whatsoever. | ||
| Of course, they wanted it to go away, right? | ||
| Of course, cowards. | ||
| And so I couldn't take the blood money. | ||
| Good for you. | ||
| I had to, you know, make sure that... | ||
| How much did that wind up costing you? | ||
| Uh, a lot. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Tens of thousands of dollars. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good for you. | |
| Fuck them. | ||
| I hope it costs them even more. | ||
| How did that guy keep his job? | ||
| The guy who fired you? | ||
| How did he keep his job? | ||
| The culture of that company was different too. | ||
| It would take a long time to unpack the complexities of how a publisher relationship works with a studio in our industry. | ||
| And so they were at the studio level and they just wanted to make fucking games. | ||
| They're artists, they're creators. | ||
| They just wanted to make cool shit and go to work and have fun doing it. | ||
| And then the publisher was the one who had the business relationships. | ||
| They're the ones who had relationships with the NBA that they were afraid of. | ||
| But they were funding the studio's development. | ||
| They didn't own the studio, but they funded it. | ||
| And so, like, when it comes down from the top where they go, oh, you know, he can't work on the project anymore. | ||
| We're not going to give you any more funding. | ||
| It's like, I would have loved for someone from that company to call the bluff because I don't think it would have ever come to that. | ||
| But they couldn't. | ||
| And it sucks that they got put in that position. | ||
| It sucks that no one there could have the backbone... | ||
| I know how I would have handled it if I was running that company at the time. | ||
| What would you have done? | ||
| I would have called the bluff of the publishing company and I would have said, that's ridiculous. | ||
| Wait a day. | ||
| Nothing is going to happen and we'll talk about it again tomorrow. | ||
| And then when nothing happened and when everything goes away and no business deals were threatened, we'd go, now what was the big fucking deal? | ||
| What was the big fucking deal? | ||
| Let's finish making the game. | ||
| Let's not have a bunch of people mad at us because we trampled all over someone's constitutional rights. | ||
| And let's implement his good ideas. | ||
| That was the other thing that they lost was all of these programs and initiatives that I was building and that I was going to take charge of and run through the game's launch cycle and keeping all of the players engaged. | ||
| All this stuff I had done before, I was going to do again for them on this new IP, this new thing that needed that work more than anything. | ||
| It didn't have anything to build off of. | ||
| It was starting from zero. | ||
| All of that was gone. | ||
| They didn't have a person to come in that could carry that torch further and finish the job I had started. | ||
| Good! | ||
| Good. | ||
| That's their punishment for being pussies. | ||
| It sucks. | ||
| It sucked for everybody. | ||
| But you like your new job better. | ||
| I do like my new job better. | ||
| I get to make... | ||
| Well, explain what your new job is to people at home. | ||
| Well, so anybody who knows video games, I work for a company now called 3D Realms. | ||
| Huge company. | ||
| Well, they used to be a huge company. | ||
| Small company now, but huge name, right? | ||
| Because they're the guys who made like Duke Nukem. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Commander Keen. | ||
| These are some of the most retro, old-school classics that influenced an entire industry. | ||
| And is there less people working in it now? | ||
| Oh, absolutely, yeah. | ||
| For the last decade where they weren't really doing anything, it would just shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink. | ||
| So now they had a bunch of litigation that was happening as well that they were able to finally put to rest. | ||
| And now the company is able to look to the future. | ||
| And so they brought me on to be like, let's build this thing back up. | ||
| And we're going to start with a new IP. What is an IP? Intellectual property. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Because I hear internet protocol. | ||
| I'm like, how's that a nerd? | ||
| IP, intellectual property. | ||
| It's a franchise. | ||
| So Bombshell is the new brand, the new game, creating a whole new slate of characters. | ||
| And it's what we want to start that sort of comeback for 3D Realms. | ||
| The game. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| You said you played games. | ||
| Huge gamer. | ||
| For a long time. | ||
| For many, many years. | ||
| To a point where I had to walk away. | ||
| Oh boy. | ||
| Because I was wasting way too much time playing mostly Quake. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That was the big one. | ||
| I was playing Quake online fucking eight, ten hours a day sometimes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But Duke Nukem, I know that there was a new one that they worked on forever. | ||
| It got to be a joke. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Duke Nukem Forever. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| But it got to be a joke. | ||
| The online joke was, you know, it's going to come out right after Duke Nukem comes out. | ||
| Or there was all these jokes about when it would come out. | ||
| It did come out eventually, right? | ||
| It did come out eventually. | ||
| And it's tough for anything that goes for 12 years of hype. | ||
| Was it 12 years? | ||
| Yeah, it was something like 12 years. | ||
| How does that happen? | ||
| Explain that to me. | ||
| Well, I wasn't here for that, so I don't know all the story. | ||
| You're not responsible. | ||
| From what I know, yes. | ||
| From what I know is the game just went through a lot of iteration. | ||
| So every year, the next big thing came out, and the game was no longer the next big thing, so they had to add some more stuff to it to try to beat the thing that just came out. | ||
| And then something else came out. | ||
| And so this constant trying to, you know, striving for perfection, and there was other problems, and there was lots of controversy. | ||
| You could read articles for days, literally days, where people are just investigating that whole evolution of that franchise. | ||
| What were they using for the 3D engine? | ||
| Was it the Unreal engine? | ||
| It kept changing. | ||
| That was the thing. | ||
| Like the engine kept changing, the technology kept changing, the requirements kept changing, everything kept changing instead of just polishing something up, sticking with what you had and getting it out the door. | ||
| You compare that to the game we're working on now, like Bombshell, right? | ||
| Bombshell is built on Unreal Engine 3. | ||
| That's the last generation of Unreal Engine, Unreal Engine's on four now. | ||
| It's Unreal Engine now. | ||
| But imagine if for Bombshell we had indefinitely kept upgrading the engine, changing new technologies, implementing new technologies, and new workflows, and new stacks, and new things breaking. | ||
| It would never end. | ||
| It would be a never-ending building and polishing cycle. | ||
| So that was kind of my perspective of what Duke Nukem was stuck in for a long time. | ||
| So it was just a poor management of the project. | ||
| And, you know, creatively, you could debate whether it was also creatively like, you know, almost like this need for perfection, you know, like no one pixel can be out of place, that type of thing. | ||
| And people did. | ||
| They pointed fingers to that whole thing. | ||
| But at the end of the day, what came out was Duke Nukem Forever. | ||
| And it wasn't, you know, I don't think anything could sustain like a decade of hype and ever live up to that expectation. | ||
| Was it good? | ||
| Was it a good game? | ||
| Did people enjoy it? | ||
| No, it was a pretty infamously poor game. | ||
| But again, I don't think that it was the fault of the game or the developers. | ||
| I think it was maybe to some extent, but I think more than anything it was failed by its own image. | ||
| It was built up and gamers had built this expectation in their head about what it could be. | ||
| And then it just wasn't. | ||
| You never had a chance of living up to that. | ||
| Imagine rebooting a crazy old franchise and it just never living up to what you would have expected from that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's kind of impossible. | ||
| To have something go on for 12 years, it's like they just have to get it out to cut their losses. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So that happened finally. | ||
| It's in the past, and now we're able to focus on the future, which is new IP, which is Bombshell. | ||
| So you're familiar with Duke Nukem enough? | ||
| You know what that character was like? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Well, back in the day, in the 90s, that kind of character works, right? | ||
| Because it's a super one-dimensional character. | ||
| It's like Carlton. | ||
| Schwarzenegger in Predator. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Just the perfect stereotype of what that Schwarzenegger or Stallone character was from the 80s will reincarnate it in video game form in the 90s. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, that kind of character doesn't really work anymore. | ||
| There he is. | ||
| Yeah, there he is. | ||
| Super brooding masculinity and just... | ||
| Come get some. | ||
| Big belt buckle. | ||
| So that character doesn't... | ||
| Even that character today would have trouble playing. | ||
| People come to expect more depth and complexity from, I feel like, from their characters. | ||
| Certainly in movies and in all the video games we play. | ||
| Things evolve. | ||
| So Bombshell was a character... | ||
| She's not one of those, but she was a character who actually originated in the Duke Nukem era. | ||
| Like, back in the 90s, she was concepted and conceived as a sidekick to Duke Nukem. | ||
| And so when she was originally conceived, she was this... | ||
| Kind of overly satirical version of the female sexy tie chick as well, in the same way Duke was, right? | ||
| Which may have played back then, but it certainly wouldn't play today in the culture that we have now with feminism and with women in gaming. | ||
| And even beyond that, just simply she wasn't a complex character. | ||
| She wasn't an interesting character. | ||
| She wasn't propelling necessarily that storyline. | ||
| So we had to kind of go back to the drawing board with this version of Bombshell, the one that we've been working on the last couple of years. | ||
| Whoa, she's badass. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, well, that's the old version of Bombshell. | ||
| What does she look like now? | ||
| So now she's much less bare midriffs, right? | ||
| Much less skin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hmm. | |
| Yeah, let's pull up that one. | ||
| Down, down, down. | ||
| Right above the one you had open. | ||
| That one. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That's the same one? | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| The one where she's holding the revolver. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So this is... | ||
| You don't see much there. | ||
| Yeah, you don't see much. | ||
| But over here, click on the two to the right and one down. | ||
| That one? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Oh, no, that's not it either. | ||
| We'll close out of this. | ||
| Just go to bombshell.com because we actually bought this domain away from, it used to be like some porn mogul had it. | ||
| No, like tits and ass. | ||
| Oh no. | ||
| How much did you have to pay for it? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It was before my time. | ||
| But got it away from that and now we've turned it into, so that's the robot. | ||
| So she's got this bionic arm, and she as a character is defined more by what she's been through, and very multifaceted personalities and attributes, not just traits, not just physical appearance. | ||
| Do you have to run this past feminism and gaming to make sure that it's okay? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| No, but what I need to ask for all gamers, right, is to look at this and go, it's not easy making a strong female character that can appeal to both men and women. | ||
| Tomb Raider? | ||
| Right, so we get to draw from awesome inspirations like Lara Croft, Sarah Connor, even Ripley. | ||
| And we're able to look at like, yeah, this works, but what makes that thing work? | ||
| It's not the physical appearance, it's not what you look like, it's who you are and what you stand for. | ||
| So Shelly Bombshell, she got her nickname because she was like the foremost bomb disposal expert in the GDF. Is that how she lost her arm? | ||
| It is how she lost her arm. | ||
| You talk about her like she's real. | ||
| It's kind of disturbing me. | ||
| Dude, to us she is! | ||
| And we want to see it, and cosplayers can bring it to life, dude. | ||
| Oh, cosplayers. | ||
| So, she was a part of the Duke Nukem franchise? | ||
| She was. | ||
| If you scroll down, or you can click on the media link at the top, you can see more screenshots that are a little bit closer. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| Is Duke Nukem the only game that... | ||
| Well, there's Daikatana, right? | ||
| That was another game that kind of went that way, right? | ||
| It was dragged on. | ||
| It was John Romero after he left id Software. | ||
| It was a little, yeah, it was sort of typecast-y as well. | ||
| That was a fucking good game, though. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| That game got fucked over. | ||
| That was a fun game. | ||
| Like, the physics were cool. | ||
| It was very much like Quake 1 with better graphics. | ||
| The weapons were cool. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, and excuse me, I'm not saying those games don't have a place. | ||
| They do, right? | ||
| And that's the thing. | ||
| What we don't want to be doing to creators, to creative people, to artists, is making them kind of like we didn't want to walk on eggshells with talking about these controversial issues today, and I feel like we didn't. | ||
| We don't want our artists walking on eggshells, worried about, well, what are people going to think? | ||
| Are they going to be down our necks for being sexist or misogynist or... | ||
| Or fueling some negative aspect of pop culture. | ||
| Well, she's got big tits, so you're in trouble. | ||
| Look at her. | ||
| People are going to definitely say that you're doing something wrong because she's hot. | ||
| I hope not. | ||
| So far, no one has. | ||
| Well, they haven't even seen it yet. | ||
| Wait till this fucking podcast goes live. | ||
| She is hot, and wait until you watch a trailer. | ||
| I don't know if you're able to... | ||
| She's got a fight. | ||
| Is that the boss? | ||
| It's one of the bosses, yeah. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Can you pull up videos? | ||
| Yeah, fuck yeah. | ||
| You should pull up the Xerath Guardian. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Shut down our YouTube video? | |
| Yeah, we'll make sure you don't shut down our YouTube videos, because that's what happens. | ||
| Is that what they do? | ||
| It's your intellectual property of whatever fucking company. | ||
| Oh, you're talking about us? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, no, you don't have to worry about that from us. | ||
| Yeah, you say that. | ||
| No. | ||
| There's got to be some company at the head of this, though. | ||
| Absolutely, it's our company. | ||
| Yeah, but do you have the pull? | ||
| Can you really make this happen? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| You'll never... | ||
| Alright, find a video, Jamie. | ||
| Go to bombshell.com. | ||
| If you scroll up, it's the top one here. | ||
| Right? | ||
| A little bit down to that middle one. | ||
| Alright, here we go. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| Go full screen. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The PAX trailer? | |
| Yeah, the PAX one. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| Hit that bitch and go full screen. | ||
| I also love our music. | ||
| We have an incredible composer in our game. | ||
| His name's Andrew Holschild. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I know you're angry, but you can't obsess over the past. | |
| This isn't the time... | ||
| What's going on here? | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| Why is it freezing? | ||
| Okay, stop. | ||
| Pause. | ||
| Listen, we can't watch it like this. | ||
| Pause it, let it load up. | ||
| It is loaded. | ||
| I saw the buffer. | ||
| Yeah, something's wrong with your fucking shitty buffer on YouTube. | ||
| Try it from the beginning, Jamie. | ||
| These are the Xerath Guardians. | ||
| Do you think it's because you went fullscreen? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, probably not. | |
| Just leave it like this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's fine. | |
| *Sounds of pain* So she'll through the game kinda be like... | ||
| breaking the fourth wall, talking to the audience. | ||
| It's almost like she knows... | ||
| Oh, so this is like, uh... | ||
| It's third person. | ||
| It's top-down, yeah. | ||
| It's an isometric game. | ||
| So this is... | ||
| It's amazing looking at this now, seeing how far along, even from when this video was recorded, how much better the game is. | ||
| But these are the Xerath Guardians, one of the boss fights. | ||
| So you're playing with two sticks on your controller. | ||
| So you're running around with the left one, and you're aiming with the right thumbstick. | ||
| And then you're shooting, you're using different abilities, different, you know, she's got her mighty punch, she's got eight different weapons that she can transform her arm into. | ||
| And this is a standard, like, Xbox-type controller? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| PlayStation? | ||
| Yep, Xbox One and PlayStation 4, it's going to be like the controllers that you've come to expect. | ||
| On PC, which is releasing later this month, is the keyboard and mouse configuration as well. | ||
| And it'll always be top-down like this? | ||
| No, so sometimes we pull it down into third person. | ||
| It was made on the Unreal Engine so we're able to build it in super high fidelity. | ||
| And you can bring down the camera to be like a third person game almost. | ||
| And the game was actually kind of designed to be a first person or third person shooter. | ||
| Yeah, first person is my favorite because it feels like you're actually there. | ||
| You know, you're running through these 3D worlds. | ||
| Top down is like you're watching. | ||
| Well, if you love Quake, and if you love first person shooters, we actually have a build engine prequel to Bombshell that's gonna come out after this game that takes place in the first person. | ||
| And it looks very retro style. | ||
| So when is this game out? | ||
| So this game comes out November 26th on PC. This is where they merge together. | ||
| This is stage 3 of the boss fight. | ||
| So PC's coming out first? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh wow, they merge? | ||
| Yeah, they literally merge together now, so now they're one giant boss. | ||
| Oh, this seems like a hard game to play. | ||
| Yeah, it's got... | ||
| Have you ever played Dark Souls? | ||
| No. | ||
| It's got times where it's kind of got Dark Souls difficulty. | ||
| It's not an easy game, but it's also a very accessible game and easy to pick up and play. | ||
| But it looks awesome. | ||
| This is the kill sequence and this to me kind of defines her personality. | ||
| It defines her personality? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It sets the tone for who she is. | ||
| For folks watching this at home, I mean listening to this, which is the vast majority of the people, this is... | ||
| Not that fun. | ||
| So for them, go to bombshell.com and you can watch these videos and check it out. | ||
| But very cool graphics. | ||
| Looks like a fun game to play. | ||
| And if you're really into games, this is probably something you'd check out. | ||
| The thing about games that I like is that the amount of fucking entertainment you get from a really good video game. | ||
| How much does a good video game cost these days? | ||
| Typically they're 59 bucks, 60 bucks. | ||
| Think about how many hours of entertainment you can get, especially if you turn it into a first-person shooter where you go online and play multiplayer. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| Hundreds of hours people are putting into this thing. | ||
| It's incredible. | ||
| And this game's not going to be that much. | ||
| This game would be like $39. | ||
| It's a single-player-only game. | ||
| It doesn't have online. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| Yeah, single-player only game, but we want to make co-op. | ||
| This game would be so fun for that. | ||
| But yeah, you talk about even the full-price games, like Call of Duty will be $60, right? | ||
| Well, that game, with how many hours you get to put in it, you compare it to a two-hour movie that you see for $12 or $14 down at the AMC, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| And you're getting so much bigger bang for your entertainment dollar buying a video game than you would in a movie. | ||
| And so a lot of times when people are worried about our games getting too pricey, with mobile games being so cheap and so affordable that they are, with how much entertainment you're getting out of it, it's crazy. | ||
| Yeah, it's amazing. | ||
| I don't think these artists are getting paid enough, honestly. | ||
| Well, the amount of money that you guys make, though, in video games is bigger than any movie now, right? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's surpassed, I think, 2012 or 13. That's crazy. | ||
| That's when it surpassed Hollywood, yeah. | ||
| When did it surpass porn? | ||
| I don't know that it surpassed porn. | ||
| Probably way earlier. | ||
| Porn doesn't make that much money anymore, does it? | ||
| No more? | ||
| They say the way porn makes big money these days, and this is kind of a sneaky thing, is hotels. | ||
| Pay-per-view in hotels. | ||
| That's where people buy porn. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| That's where people most of the time buy porn. | ||
| Well, if you're a business guy, you can expense the trip. | ||
| You can expense it on your trip. | ||
| $19.99 for a movie? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hmm. | |
| What did you watch? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| If you play bombshell and if you walk away with a different image jump into your head than just that blonde babe, scantily clad, tits and ass, then we've done something. | ||
| We left an impression on you that tells you that what defines a bombshell, what defines a badass chick is more of her context in her life and what she's doing and how she's combating that adversity, then it is what she looks like. | ||
| Are you guys preparing for feminist blowback? | ||
| Feminism and gaming blowback? | ||
| No, I mean, I think about it a little bit more myself just because of the way I think and what I've been through, but that's not what the team at Interceptor is the studio in Denmark making that game. | ||
| Interceptor, no one there is thinking that. | ||
| They're just thinking, we have this idea for an incredible chick, an incredible villain too. | ||
| Jadis Heskel, he's the villain. | ||
| You didn't see him in that trailer. | ||
| But he's the lead antagonist. | ||
| He's voiced by the voice of Duke Nukem, John St. John. | ||
| So he's also part of the 3D Realms family still. | ||
| They're just looking at making incredible characters with a fun story. | ||
| No one's saying this story is serious like you saw. | ||
| She rides a shield and punches him in the face to do the executing move. | ||
| Well, she throws some grenades under the shield, blows them up and goes flying. | ||
| Which is like that classic, over-the-top, almost B-action movie type stuff, right? | ||
| But that's the game that we're making. | ||
| We don't want it to be too serious. | ||
| We want it to still be on the fun side of serious. | ||
| Now, speaking of technology and technology of the future, are you guys going to start doing things like Oculus Rift? | ||
| Are you guys going to start... | ||
| Producing games for for something that's like completely immersive like that we could man We don't want to say no to anything. | ||
| We couldn't say yes now you could do nothing to announce on your show Unfortunately, but it's it's the technology is amazing. | ||
| Have you tried it? | ||
| Have you worn those? | ||
| I've only worn well, I've won two two versions I've worn the original version which is very pixelated which was okay Amazing because it gave me this like whoa this idea like I see where this is going and then more recently I My friend Lewis from Unbox Therapy was in here, and he showed me one that's a cell phone. | ||
| You slide it in like a Galaxy. | ||
| Yeah, Samsung phone, and you put it on, but it's still not the real deal. | ||
| The real deal is the one that hooks up to a computer. | ||
| But I saw that video where you get to look around. | ||
| It's completely three-dimensional. | ||
| The guy playing the piano, have you seen that one? | ||
| Yeah, it's mind-blowing. | ||
| I've worn both. | ||
| The Valve has their Vive, and then you have the Oculus Rift. | ||
| Sony has theirs. | ||
| What's the best one? | ||
| They're all bleeding edge. | ||
| To me, they're all at the same level. | ||
| They all have their different things. | ||
| One has more refresh rate, one has higher resolution, one has the hand tracking, so you can move your hands and stuff. | ||
| It's such a new technology. | ||
| They're all making great strides. | ||
| No matter what one you're playing on, the experience is so hard to describe. | ||
| I'm going to do it injustice right now, but it's like you really are in a different world. | ||
| I played a simulation where I was standing in this... | ||
| It was like a jail cell, like a jail hall. | ||
| And there's this T-Rex. | ||
| You hear it walking and it comes around the corner. | ||
| And it starts walking towards you and is roaring. | ||
| It's super high fidelity. | ||
| And you can look around. | ||
| You can move. | ||
| You can move around. | ||
| And when he started walking at me, I had this visceral, natural instinct to duck down. | ||
| And then it detected that I had ducked it down because it can have the motion tracking like the Wii remotes do. | ||
| And so he leaned down and looked at me and roared in my face, and then he walked over me. | ||
| And I realized that I've never had that reaction from a normal game, where I've had to physically move in my space. | ||
| But that made me have this response, and I felt my heart rate going up, that was so much more immersive. | ||
| And you have to experience it. | ||
| Have you ever had a chance to go to a trade show, like Penny Arcade Expo, PAX South or PAX East? | ||
| Go to these trade shows and wait in line. | ||
| It's worth it. | ||
| Try it out, because it's such an incredible experience. | ||
| Well, I know John Carmack is involved with some Oculus Rift stuff, because we were tweeting back and forth, and I've been to Id Studios way back when, before Quake 3 was released. | ||
| I got to play an early version of it with Tim Willits and all those guys online, or on a LAN, rather. | ||
| It was really fucking cool. | ||
| But they're doing some crazy Oculus Rift shit, and I just can only imagine what that's going to be like. | ||
| The first Oculus game we make, I'll bring you in. | ||
| I want you to see it. | ||
| I want you to tell us what you think. | ||
| Well, the first-person shooter in Oculus Rift would probably, if you can get some sort of an omnidirectional treadmill that feels realistic. | ||
| They have those, too, already. | ||
| Yes, I've seen them. | ||
| It's tough. | ||
| It's like a workout. | ||
| It's really hard to be. | ||
| Which is great because, you know, one of the things about Dance Dance Revolution, that game that's really popular in arcades, one of the cool side effects is a lot of people lost weight. | ||
| Like a shitload of weight. | ||
| Because they were gamers, but they got really into playing this one game. | ||
| And this game requires you to jump around and bounce around. | ||
| And they were burning off all these fucking crazy calories. | ||
| And there's... | ||
| I mean, I think there's a whole website dedicated to Dance Dance Revolution weight loss. | ||
| Like, it's showing all these people that have lost, like, fucking 60, 70, 80 pounds just playing this silly game. | ||
| Because it's fun. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they're having fun doing it. | ||
| Now think about a first-person shooter, like, Unreal-style, right? | ||
| And you're running around these corridors. | ||
| You've got an Oculus Rift headset on. | ||
| Omni-directional treadmill, which means you can go left, right, back, forth, 45-degree angles, up and down. | ||
| Fuck, man! | ||
| And then a lot of these treadmills, they operate on you pushing them. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| Because they don't move like a treadmill where you have to keep up with it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's your footprints are actually forcing it to move, so there's a little bit of resistance to it. | ||
| The one that I saw, I didn't get to try it though, is they had this thing, this almost sock thing you put on. | ||
| Instead of a shoe, it's like a boot that's super soft material. | ||
| And then rather than the thing being a track that you have to move and have all that resistance, because that was harder to move, it was this really slick surface. | ||
| So you're still bound in, but you just glide your feet over it. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| Yeah, and so you like polish it up like almost like a like a bowling alley you would and then so You're almost like walking in place and gliding and because you still have that harness holding up you don't slip and fall And that was kind of interesting too. | ||
| That is kind of interesting I would think one would be better for fitness. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely But we could probably get some really good workouts in with an omnidirectional treadmill with resistance and I know there's one that they're working on that I had heard is fucking terrifying. | ||
| It's based on Ridley Scott's Alien, the first Alien movie. | ||
| The game? | ||
| The game. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Have you seen it? | ||
| I've seen the clips, yeah. | ||
| I've heard it's fucking horrifying. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah. | |
| Where people are worried that people are literally going to get heart attacks. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And you have to duck, and you actually see it walking around, and it's trying to find you, and you physically have to duck and move your body down so that it can't see you in the game. | ||
| And when it finds you, it roars at you. | ||
| And you watch the YouTube videos. | ||
| The Fine Brothers. | ||
| It's the Fine Brothers YouTube channel where they have these teens react videos. | ||
| They'll put teenagers in chairs. | ||
| They'll film them reacting to these things. | ||
| It's so fucking funny to watch them. | ||
| They're clawing at their eyes trying to get the thing off because it was terrifying. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, isn't this like sort of a glimpse of what's going to happen when they figure out how to make some sort of, not just goggles that you put on, like what they're doing with Oculus Rift, but some sort of a neural interface where they bring you into this world. | ||
| Would you ever want to leave that world? | ||
| That's the question, right? | ||
| I mean, is that where we're going? | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| I mean... | ||
| When we're talking about artificial life, maybe that's how artificial life is going to co-opt us. | ||
| They go, look, man, we got this thing. | ||
| You know, you don't need to live like this, baby. | ||
| You know, I mean, how many people are out there just can't get people to touch them? | ||
| They're so sad, so depressed. | ||
| Why would you do that when you can be Robin Hood? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You can literally, okay, this is the people. | ||
| We're watching a video of the people wearing the Oculus Rift. | ||
| Oh, fuck it. | ||
| Turn it up, Jamie. | ||
| Oh my god, this is amazing. | ||
| Oh, first of all, it moves like a really high-level 3D shooter with high resolution, but it's total Oculus Rift. | ||
| Oh my god, it's running. | ||
| It's running at you. | ||
| Does that mean it got her? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, that's hilarious. | ||
|
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|
And then when it eats them, it happens in front of them. | |
| They can look down and see their intestines getting ripped out. | ||
| Oh, terrific. | ||
| She's like, damn it, I just got jacked. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| So when that little face is on the corner, does that mean it got you? | ||
| Yeah, it's a little bit buggy too. | ||
| They were playing like a glitchy build and whatnot. | ||
| We're seeing the future, right? | ||
| I mean, if you go back to Pong, and you look at what you've got now with Bombshell, and you look at this, and you go, what the fuck is that? | ||
| I mean, Pong was what? | ||
| 80? | ||
| 70? | ||
| Yeah, a long time ago. | ||
| I don't even remember. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't remember what year it was. | ||
| What year do you think Pong was? | ||
| Take a guess, Jamie. | ||
| 60s? | ||
| No, really? | ||
| I guess 72? | ||
| 1972. Okay. | ||
| So, think of that. | ||
| Think of 72. And now think of what's going to be like 40 years from now. | ||
| And how quick we got here. | ||
| Yeah, that's the thing. | ||
| 40 years sounds like a long time. | ||
| 43 years ain't shit. | ||
| No. | ||
| Well, especially if you extrapolate. | ||
| You look at what's going on today. | ||
| It's exponential. | ||
| It's not just 40 years from now. | ||
| Yeah, fuck 40 years. | ||
| Yeah, 40 days. | ||
| Let's go just back to 2005, right? | ||
| Just 10 years. | ||
| 2005, the video games were completely different. | ||
| They were still, in large part, sprite-driven. | ||
| Sprites were a bit... | ||
| Well, I'm not going to get into the technical. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What's a sprite? | |
| Yeah, I'm not going to get into the technical jar. | ||
| What does that mean? | ||
| It's not truly 3D. | ||
| Like, the effects are fake 2D. | ||
| Oh, I see what you're saying. | ||
| Yeah, it's just like a bunch of 2D objects put together in any way. | ||
| But this virtual reality was something that always had been talked about a long time ago. | ||
| It was always like the thing. | ||
| We're gonna have virtual reality I mean it was it was a big plot line in movies and like the 1980s, but the technology wasn't there but now the technology is finally caught up to it and Again, this is just the beginning. | ||
| It's going to get crazier than this, right? | ||
| I would hope so. | ||
| I would assume so for my future. | ||
| What I want to know is how is it going to change? | ||
| You know how Netflix has changed the way Hollywood and how TV shows are made? | ||
| I want to know what those... | ||
| I can't wait to find out and experience through it the effect that's going to have on games. | ||
| Well, how about movies? | ||
| There was a movie that they did a trailer for that was in Oculus Rift. | ||
| A movie in Oculus Rift? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It was completely three-dimensional. | ||
| You could get inside the movie, you could move around and watch things happen from different places inside the movie. | ||
| That's incredible. | ||
| Yeah, and I saw it online, and they were just sort of demonstrating it. | ||
| It might just be like a proof of concept sort of a thing, but they were doing it in real time, and this person was moving around, watching all this shit happen. | ||
| If you go to a movie theater, right? | ||
| You're sitting in a theater, it's this big whole, big giant place, and everybody's sitting down eating popcorn and watching this flat screen in front of you where everything takes place. | ||
| What if instead of that, you enter into a warehouse, and that warehouse is the film? | ||
| You strap on these goggles, and they have an environment with wind and heat and all sorts of different three-dimensional environmental effects. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That can allow you, like, different terrain. | ||
| Like, maybe the terrain is somehow or another pliable or movable or liquid that can change what the effects of it are. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you could walk around in the Shire. | ||
| I mean, you could be in the fucking Hobbit land, climbing the hill to where Bilbo Baggins' house is, opening the door, looking at him, and he's telling you to come on inside. | ||
| What?! | ||
| This isn't unrealistic, right? | ||
| Oh, it's already here. | ||
| There's the one proof of concept video, maybe Jamie can find it, where it's, with the Oculus Rift, they created a third-person shooter. | ||
| So it's a real-life third-person game where the guy has a wide-angle camera mounted in a backpack on his back that is back here, so it looks down and it can see himself standing there. | ||
| And he's wearing these 3D glasses and it's doing the head tracking in real time. | ||
| There's maybe like an 80 millisecond delay. | ||
| So almost imperceivable. | ||
| So he's seeing his own, he's literally living an out-of-body experience through Oculus Rift and he's walking around like he's a third-person avatar through the world. | ||
| Wow! | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, some games allow you to go from third person to first person. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| To allow you to switch back and forth. | ||
| That's going to be, like, to look at your own hands in the game on the trigger. | ||
| You know, you can see your hand pulling. | ||
| That's what the Vive was, too. | ||
| And Oculus, I think Oculus came out with a peripheral as well now where you hold these little things in your hands. | ||
| And now the head tracking device can track, or the cameras can track where your hands are in relation to your eyes, so you can hold a gun up and see the gun that you're holding. | ||
| Yeah, totally, man. | ||
| Makes sense. | ||
| Why wouldn't you? | ||
| You know, I mean, if your game, I mean, that would be so much more immersive. | ||
| If you had a game that required you to shoot at monsters with a shotgun, and you had a fake shotgun, but it was heavy, like a metal shotgun, it had a real cocking mechanism, and you could really see the shells eject, you had to put new shells in, maybe. | ||
| Maybe you have shells in your pocket, and that's how you reload. | ||
| Maybe you have a bucket of shells. | ||
| Fuck, it could be awesome. | ||
| You've seen HoloLens, right? | ||
| No. | ||
| HoloLens is, in a lot of ways, even better. | ||
| Have I seen it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh! | |
| Where they had aliens breaking through the walls of your home. | ||
| So it's not goggles, it's like a lens, and so you still see your space, but it's like as soon as you put them on, you could look at that wall, and now suddenly an alien can break through the wall, and it actually makes it look like your wall is tearing apart and aliens climbing through it. | ||
| And then you're shooting at the alien in your own house at your own wall. | ||
| So it's bringing video games into your world instead of putting, transplanting you into another world. | ||
| HoloLens is bringing that game experience into wherever your space is. | ||
| I forgot the name of it. | ||
| Yeah, but I do remember that now. | ||
| And then there was the other one. | ||
| What was it? | ||
| Magic Leap? | ||
| Yeah, that's the other one where they're showing 3D holograms, like a little elephant dancing in your hand. | ||
| They've actually shown that Magic Leap demonstrations have come out recently. | ||
| I'll try to find it for you real quick. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| They've shown some, yeah. | ||
| Like a real demonstration? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, concept. | |
| Well, they had one that was fascinating. | ||
| It was this little girl sitting on her bed watching a four-inch high ballerina spinning around her bed like it was a real ballerina, like it was fucking Tinkerbell. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And again, what does that do to a generation of mind-blowing new inspiration and imagination that no other generation like ours had? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And where does it lead? | ||
| Because obviously, they're going to take it to the next place as they become more educated and they go to school and they learn how to create this kind of content and... | ||
| They learn how to evolve it and make it better and make the technology better. | ||
| Fucking Christ, man. | ||
| We're in for some weird shit. | ||
| It's a good time to be alive. | ||
| It's amazing. | ||
| It's the best time to be alive ever. | ||
| And we have so much shit to complain about, though. | ||
| Yeah, we've always had shit to complain about. | ||
| Oh, this is real? | ||
| Yeah, it says that this was shot through the Magic Leap. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Okay, play it. | ||
| Like two weeks ago. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| Whoa, October 14th, 2015. No special effects. | ||
| Or compositing were used. | ||
| And it's not all glitchity. | ||
| It's not like having trouble. | ||
| It's so smooth with every motion of the... | ||
| So that's underneath the table. | ||
| We're looking at this robot thing. | ||
| This is super cool. | ||
| Oh, whoa! | ||
| So this girl's sitting at a desk, and she's, uh... | ||
| Excellent posture, by the way. | ||
| And as she's sitting there, there is a fucking solar system floating over her desk. | ||
| But it looks real. | ||
| Well, it looks realistic, at least. | ||
| There's trails. | ||
| That's what they're trying to show, is the focus. | ||
| It reacts to the depth of field of the real world. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| So, as you get close to it, if you look at it... | ||
| Like, you can focus on Earth. | ||
| Like, it's our solar system. | ||
| There's our sun. | ||
| And it's all the planets are the right size and the proper order. | ||
| And just imagine the applications for this. | ||
| Imagine when a science teacher can put this in a classroom and let you, like, walk around a universe or a galaxy and interact with the objects in, like, your actual space. | ||
| What I'm confused is, what's the projection method? | ||
| How are they doing that? | ||
| It's a lens that they're wearing. | ||
| Correct me if I'm wrong, Jamie, I don't know this one. | ||
| But I don't think it is. | ||
| They are not letting anyone know, I think, as of right now, because it's super high concept and they're not sharing. | ||
| Because that girl's playing it all cool. | ||
| She wasn't even looking at the solar system right next to her. | ||
| It's kind of horseshit. | ||
| If that was like HoloLens' technology, they had the camera looking at through the filter that would be projecting that into the world. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| So you still have to wear a device, I would assume. | ||
| I would assume. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I would assume, yeah. | ||
| Because there was one image that they had where it was a floating whale. | ||
| They were on the beach and they were looking up and above the beach, like where the sand is, there was a whale that was floating in the sky. | ||
| I could only imagine that that would be the case if you were wearing some goggles or something like that. | ||
| How are you going to project something in the air and have it look completely three-dimensional and solid? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| This is the one? | ||
| Oh yeah, I did see this clip. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| But here's the thing, so weren't all of them, in the YouTube clip I saw, all the people in the room were reacting too. | ||
| Exactly, but here you're seeing a bunch of kids in a gymnasium that are watching this whale fly through the air, but the kids don't have anything on their eyes that we can see. | ||
| Right. | ||
| See, this is kind of bullshit. | ||
| They'll tell us eventually, but obviously this is some stuff they're working on right now. | ||
| Yeah, when I saw the clip, I assumed that they were just reacting because they had said, oh, now there's a whale jumping out and just react so that it makes the viral video on you. | ||
| That's what I thought happened. | ||
| Might be. | ||
|
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Fuck. | |
| That's weird. | ||
| You know, it's weird to be alive now and see all this stuff happening and just the speculation of what it's going to be like in a decade. | ||
| Well, you're a little bit older than me. | ||
| I'm 48. You're 48, so you got to experience... | ||
| How old are you? | ||
| 28. I'm a lot older than you, bitch. | ||
| You got to experience what time was like as an adult before all this stuff. | ||
| So even what was your perspective? | ||
| Yeah, well, I remember no internet. | ||
| In 1994, I got my first computer. | ||
| It was a... | ||
| An old Mac, back when Macs only had tan. | ||
| Those boxes, you know, I had one of those. | ||
| And I remember thinking, what? | ||
| How crazy is this internet thing? | ||
| You've got mail! | ||
| You know, go on AOL and look around. | ||
| It's been completely fascinating to watch that evolve and watch it change. | ||
| And a lot of it happened while I was on news radio. | ||
| The guys that I worked with, a lot of the writers, were, like, heavily into video games. | ||
| And those guys got me addicted to Quake. | ||
| It was Quake 2 at the time, because they had developed a local area network. | ||
| They had installed a LAN in their office, and they had spent a shitload of time. | ||
| They're supposed to be writing. | ||
| They would play games until 2 o'clock in the morning and then start writing. | ||
| But it was so crazy. | ||
| I had never seen anything like it. | ||
| And that's how I became massively addicted, but also addicted to the internet. | ||
| And that's when I started going online and finding out about websites and reading things and realizing you can get your news online. | ||
| I was like, this is amazing. | ||
| You could read the news? | ||
| And then, like, you get the news in real time. | ||
| Then I was thinking, well, you don't have to wait till the morning for the paper to come out. | ||
| You just wait for the website to refresh. | ||
| And then it got smaller, and it kept getting smaller, and you have it in your pocket at any moment. | ||
| You can get notified when news happens. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's got to be... | ||
| See, I think you and even me in a lot of ways, because I remember a time before that, too. | ||
| I was younger, but I remember when the internet was really getting into our house. | ||
| So I feel like we were, like, in a great... | ||
| A great generation for perspective. | ||
| And not to go back to all that stuff again, but it's like the next generation, even my younger sister's generation, they didn't have all that perspective necessarily. | ||
| And now I have little toddlers and nephews who are growing up with iPads and they're doing stuff sitting on the couch after school on their iPad. | ||
| And so I'm just worried like... | ||
| And what do you think? | ||
| Do you think you and I are in the best generation for perspective? | ||
| Or do you think that it's better to be a generation now? | ||
| Or a generation before you and I? Well, I think if you want to compare the two, there's no way they're going to understand what it was like to not have the internet. | ||
| They're not going to understand it. | ||
| It's going to be a concept. | ||
| It's like us understanding what it was like before written language. | ||
| We're never going to get it. | ||
| We can pretend all we like. | ||
| We're never going to really know what that's like. | ||
| But I think the leap between no written language to written language took so much longer to have an impact than what we're experiencing in just a couple of decades. | ||
| In a couple of decades, the world has changed radically, and it's happened right in front of our eyes. | ||
| And I think that human beings have a really difficult time recognizing change while it's taking place right in front of them. | ||
| I think it just seems normal to us. | ||
| But I think when history looks back at this era, they're going to say, this is the craziest moment in time. | ||
| This was when it all began. | ||
| This was the birth of the machine. | ||
| This was when it came alive, when information became viral for the first time, like literally viral, like became almost a living organism and spread. | ||
| And there was hiccups and there was Justine Sacco and Josh Olin and there was all sorts of weird shit that happened along the way and virus. | ||
| Viral videos and fucking that... | ||
| What is that fucking guy from Korea? | ||
| Gangnam Style? | ||
| There's all sorts of... | ||
| Strange things have happened. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Strange things. | ||
| Hamster damps. | ||
| There's been a lot of weird stuff that's happened because of the internet. | ||
| But ultimately, it's amazing. | ||
| It's more good than bad. | ||
| Oh yeah, way more good. | ||
| I think people are more informed, more educated, and I think they're kinder. | ||
| I really do. | ||
| I think despite all these cuts that get crazy over stuff, I think there's more good stuff coming from people online. | ||
| It's also the communities that you foster. | ||
| Like, the people that I'm in contact with that connect to me through this podcast or through my other stuff, they're super positive. | ||
| It's like so much more kind. | ||
| I mean, you can find pockets of douchebags. | ||
|
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Sure. | |
| They form these little communities, and they just shit in each other's mouths all day. | ||
| You're going to find that with sports. | ||
| You're going to find that with video games, with any... | ||
| You're going to have like-minded communities, and some of them are going to be toxic. | ||
| But for the most part, what I encounter and the people that I interact with online, incredibly positive. | ||
| Even criticisms, like the criticisms that I've experienced online, for the most part, the vast majority of them are polite. | ||
| Vast majority. | ||
| You know, I think that's rare. | ||
| I think also people are learning how to use social media and the internet and this newfound ability. | ||
| They're learning how to do it. | ||
| And some people do it wrong. | ||
| I mean, there's some people that have like essentially attack blogs. | ||
| You go to their blog, it's just them shitting on one person or shitting on another person. | ||
| And why are they doing that? | ||
| Well, they're doing that because they can. | ||
| This is the first time they've ever had a voice in their whole life and they're going to use it to displace some of the anger and hate that they have in their own life and just throw it out there in the world. | ||
| And these are all like hiccups and growing pains and I think it's amazing. | ||
| I really, really do. | ||
| That's why I do what I do. | ||
| That's why I like to still be talking to as many people as I can and changing and influencing in a positive way, hopefully, as many lives as I can because just like the universe, you know, I'm a part of it. | ||
| I'm in the middle of it and I want to be a part of it and I want you to be a part of it. | ||
| That's why I love comedians too and I respect comedians because they talk about these kinds of social issues with such, you know, just absolutely brazenness and they don't care Most people don't care what other people think about it and they make they make you laugh at the same time that they make you really think and be thoughtful about it so I really respect what you do and and You know kind of paving the way for that because you you were doing that in an era before there was social media So well, | ||
| it was easier before there was social media you were eating is attacked for it It was limited to one room at a time, right? | ||
| You got attacked in that room, you know, but I think people had less of a They had less of this entitlement to outrage that people have now. | ||
| And I think that there has been some attacks on comedians that have gone sort of the way that, you know, you see these attacks on people for whatever reason in social media, whether it's the Lion Killer guy or Justine Saka or you, there's going to be these targets that exist. | ||
| And they have occasionally gone after comedians. | ||
| And for the most part, comedians have vehemently And aggressively supported and defended themselves. | ||
| And one another. | ||
| Yeah, and defended one another. | ||
| It's a super important thing. | ||
| Daniel Tosh had an incident that there was a few comedians that actually turned on him, and they were ostracized by the community. | ||
| People will never respect them or forget that they, for social media brownie points, they tried to pretend that what he did was some outrageous thing. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| By cracking jokes. | ||
| So it happens everywhere, because that was the one thing that I wish would have, if I could have changed anything about what happened with me, it would have been that I would have loved for more of my peers to come out and been like, this is wrong. | ||
| I would have loved for more people to have had the gonads to come out and say, Fuck that. | ||
| He didn't do anything wrong publicly. | ||
| They all came to me privately, man. | ||
| Empathizing, right? | ||
| But as you would expect friends to do. | ||
| But I would have loved for people to have been like, you know what? | ||
| That's not okay. | ||
| Because I see that all the time in the comic community where that's how you fight that. | ||
| That's how you get back against that. | ||
| And that's how you make sure that that shit doesn't resurge and take over. | ||
| But we have to, because without that, the art form is shit. | ||
| I mean, it really doesn't even exist. | ||
| The art form of stand-up comedy depends upon freedom. | ||
| Because you're going to say things that are offensive, you know, that you don't even mean, because the offensive things will be funny, you know? | ||
| And you've got to know when you mean them or when you don't mean them. | ||
| I went through this whole bit in my last special where I was explaining, like, this is a Tracy Morgan bit that he got in trouble for, because he said that if his son was gay, he would stab him. | ||
| And then I'm like, well, he also said he would eat a mile of shit to get to Beyonce's ass. | ||
| Do you understand he said both of those things in the same set? | ||
| Like, you gotta, like, look at what he's doing. | ||
| He's saying things that are outrageous that are not real. | ||
| He's not in court giving an affidavit. | ||
| He's making a joke because he knows that some parents are shitheads when their sons come out to them, right? | ||
| And that's the joke that he was making, and I understand that, and you hear that. | ||
| I don't think that's what he was doing. | ||
| No? | ||
| I think he was pretending that he would stab his son if he was gay because it's outrageous. | ||
| I don't think he was saying... | ||
| Or it's as simple as that. | ||
| Yeah, I don't think it was, like, a social stand... | ||
| Like he was taking a stand on social issues and mocking those parents that would do that. | ||
| No, I think he's pretending that he would do that. | ||
| But the last thing that he was doing is suggesting that's okay. | ||
| Yes, exactly. | ||
| You know, I mean, people... | ||
| People have to look at what stand-up comedy is the same way they look at movies. | ||
| If you watch Goodfellas, okay, nobody really got shot when they made that movie. | ||
| It was fake. | ||
| It was entertainment. | ||
| And if you listen to rap music, same thing, okay? | ||
| They're not really shooting cops. | ||
| So what people think is they argue that by fetishizing that, by pretending that, that we're somehow changing society. | ||
| Adjusting culture. | ||
| And I completely reject that theory, right? | ||
| In video games, we get that a lot with violence in video games. | ||
| There was a lot, a lot of lawsuits actually went to the Supreme Court in California over California versus the EMA. And thankfully, video games won. | ||
| It was like a seven to two vote. | ||
| But what they were arguing is that violent video games can lead to these mass shootings, can lead to violence in your life, lead to aggression, despite not a single study supporting any of that evidence. | ||
| And I come to realize that video games as an industry, we're just younger. | ||
| As an art form, we're younger. | ||
| We're a very immature industry, just like movies, just like music. | ||
| Eminem and Marilyn Manson went through the same scrutiny back when they were having violent and vulgar rap lyrics, right? | ||
| Before them, Ozzy Osbourne. | ||
| People were blaming them for kids killing people. | ||
| And every time we come to realize, you know, it's probably not real. | ||
| It's probably not the case. | ||
| And no matter what someone writes in a manifesto or what someone, you know, some study person might think, you know, at some university, there's nothing that suggests that. | ||
| And if anything, there's data that suggests that, you know, these things as mediums are releases. | ||
| They lower aggression. | ||
| They make people happier and better people overall. | ||
| Yeah, the release. | ||
| There's this idea that watching something violent and watching something sexual and watching these things that are horrific, they release this anxiety and they release the desire to actually do those things. | ||
| And that you can somehow or another By, you know, by viewing those, alleviate those issues in your own mind. | ||
| I used to work on Call of Duty, and so we, of course, a game like that has a close interaction with the armed services, with our militaries. | ||
| And every time that I met with them, they would tell me stories about things like... | ||
| You know, so vets would talk about how they deal with, like, PTSD. They deal with adjusting to society by playing Call of Duty. | ||
| Or people on deployment in, like, FOBs. | ||
| Like, you know, Boots in the Sand would talk about going to, you know, going in and playing these things. | ||
| Because they would have little, almost like internet cafes. | ||
| They'd have little tents set up where they would go in and play the games on workstations. | ||
| And we actually would send sometimes Xboxes out to them and help them get through that stuff. | ||
| And again, to them, it was like that was their way of keeping a sense of sanity and normalcy to their otherwise hell, the hell they had to go through. | ||
| And those stories, they always ring home to me, and I realize that no matter how much... | ||
| But again, it's just perspective. | ||
| It still tears me down to think that we're still debating these things. | ||
| We're still debating whether they're violent video games or this and that. | ||
| Here's why the debate is bullshit. | ||
| Would it affect you? | ||
| If you went and saw a violent video game or a violent movie, would you go out and commit violence because of it? | ||
| No, you're a grown adult. | ||
| So what are you doing with video games? | ||
| Are we raising children with them? | ||
| No, you're raising your fucking kid, okay? | ||
| And if your kid grows up to be a suicide bomber or a mass murderer or a rapist, you can't blame movies, man. | ||
| It's not the movie's fault. | ||
| There were way more influential factors in that kid's life that led him to where he was than the movie he watched. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And usually whatever angst that they have is, you know, they're seeking some sort of a relief through those video games. | ||
| And if they have fucked up thoughts inside their head, it's not Quentin Tarantino didn't put him in there. | ||
| Ozzy Osbourne didn't put him in there. | ||
| Call of Duty didn't put them in there. | ||
| It just didn't. | ||
| It's not the case. | ||
| They can live vicariously through those horrible things and not want to commit crimes. | ||
| And the argument can be made for that sexually, too. | ||
| There's a lot of people that believe that porn, even crazy porn, alleviates people's desires and need to do fucked up things sexually. | ||
| Or to do the thing that they watched in the porn, exactly. | ||
| And that's a good thing. | ||
| That's not desensitizing them. | ||
| Again, that all comes from a place, I think, just lack of understanding. | ||
| It comes from a place of closed-mindedness. | ||
| It's that confirmation bias. | ||
| You have a theory, and so you will look at the world through the stained-glass lenses of that theory, instead of looking at it objectively and understanding the data and what the data is telling you. | ||
| And you're always going to have examples where you can point the finger at that person and blame whatever influences from the media, whether it's music or games or films or anything, for their behavior and their actions. | ||
| But you've got to have to look at all the factors in their life. | ||
| And what percentage of the pie is the video game? | ||
| Is it even a sliver? | ||
| I mean, is it even a percent or two percent? | ||
| What about the 98% of... | ||
| Them getting sexually abused or beaten up or bullied or the fact their mom drank like a fish when they were in the womb, who the fuck knows what makes a broken person. | ||
| The idea that a person can be perfectly normal and then sit down and play Call of Duty and want to go fucking shoot up a mall, that's crazy talk. | ||
| And you as an adult producing a product that is supposed to be, at the very least, your parents are supposed to approve your use of it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But most of it is like kids that are, you know, in their teens or older, they've formed their own personalities already. | ||
| You're not getting your personality from playing bombshell. | ||
| And even still, we still have rating systems, just like the movies have the MPAA. We still have the ESRB. We're still properly rating them and making sure that parents have to sign off if they're going to buy the thing with the kid. | ||
| They have to be there in the store. | ||
| You have to have a guard. | ||
| You know, we still have all those same systems just in case. | ||
|
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|
Right. | |
| Because it's still good to be better safe than sorry, I agree, but not to the degree that you're removing an entire genre of game or genre of entertainment because of it. | ||
| That's being too safe. | ||
| And people should be allowed to vote with their pocketbook. | ||
| You should be able to vote with your wallet. | ||
| If you think that something's offensive, and you think Grand Theft Auto legitimizes robbery and violence, I don't want to be a part of that. | ||
| So this is what you do. | ||
| You just don't buy it. | ||
| It's real simple. | ||
| And let the open market decide. | ||
| And the idea that we're going to fucking nanny state the whole world, it's nonsense. | ||
| It's nonsense. | ||
| And I think video games have been the latest victim, or the latest in our culture, of something that Tipper Gore tried to do with rap music. | ||
| I mean, it's been done forever. | ||
| It's been done forever. | ||
| They've always tried to find a scapegoat for why people are fucked up. | ||
| But people are fucked up because people are fucked up. | ||
| Deal with it. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Deal with it. | ||
| Face it. | ||
| Face it. | ||
| We don't understand it, but that's okay. | ||
| We have more work to do to figure it out. | ||
| Don't just go to the easy thing, the easy explanation that makes you feel more comfortable at night. | ||
| Yeah, we're not talking about John Carpenter. | ||
| What is that movie he did where the people read the book, In the Mouth of Madness? | ||
| They read the book and they went fucking crazy for reading the book. | ||
| No, there's a giant number of people who play Call of Duty and never shoot anybody. | ||
| Okay, you got to take them into account. | ||
| You can't just say, well, this guy played Call of Duty and then he went on shot. | ||
| What else did he do? | ||
| Did that guy pee? | ||
| Well, when he pees, it made him go out and shoot people. | ||
| No more peeing. | ||
| Yeah, no more peeing. | ||
| Did he drink milk? | ||
| Well, fucking milk kills. | ||
| Milk's out there killing babies. | ||
| That's nonsense. | ||
| It's like everything causes cancer. | ||
| Everything causes cancer these days. | ||
| Well, everything causes death because we all die. | ||
|
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|
That's right. | |
| So everything you do, you get online, that's causing death. | ||
| I think we worked on a lot of shit today, Josh. | ||
| I do, too. | ||
| I feel good about this podcast. | ||
| Thanks for letting me talk to you about it. | ||
| My pleasure, brother. | ||
| My pleasure. | ||
| And good luck with your game. | ||
| Good luck with Bombshell. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| And everything else you do, man. | ||
| I really appreciate it. | ||
| It was a lot of fun. | ||
| Cheers, brother. | ||
| JD underscore... | ||
| What is it? | ||
| 2020. What does that stand for? | ||
| It's funny. | ||
| There's a story. | ||
| I'll come on next time and tell you about it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Next time. | ||
| JD underscore 2020 on Twitter. | ||
| Josh Olin, ladies and gentlemen. | ||
| All right. |
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