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Oct. 19, 2015 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:05:34
Joe Rogan Experience #710 - Gavin McInnes
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gavin mcinnes
01:34:36
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joe rogan
01:25:30
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joe rogan
Hello friends this episode of the podcast I've been drinking caveman coffee.
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Enjoy it.
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unidentified
Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.
joe rogan
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unidentified
Copy Modal Modal.
Hmm.
joe rogan
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Let's see.
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All right, my guest today is a very entertaining man, a very smart guy.
He's all over the place, but he's quite a character.
And he was one of the original founders of Vice back before it was even Vice with Shane Smith.
And we get into that a little bit, but we had a very bizarre but very entertaining talk.
So I hope you enjoy it.
Please welcome Gavin McInnes.
unidentified
Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
joe rogan
Boom, Gavin McGinnis, you are live, sir, from Williamsburg, Brooklyn, which I understand you invented.
gavin mcinnes
Yes, I did.
joe rogan
Congratulations.
gavin mcinnes
Thank you very much.
joe rogan
Well, you see all the hipsters walking around just like you, do you feel proud?
gavin mcinnes
Sort of.
joe rogan
You like the daddy?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, I'm the godfather of hipsterdom.
I don't feel...
Like, there's ways you can get followers where you, you know, don't piss anyone off.
And I probably could have a big following with these super far-right dudes, the cockservative guys.
joe rogan
Cuckservative?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
They call you a cuck if you race mix and stuff.
joe rogan
Oh, look at that, Jamie.
unidentified
That's you.
joe rogan
You this time.
That's a first.
gavin mcinnes
But I ostracized them for being a race mixer.
And then I could probably get gamer followers, but I think it's gay to play video games.
joe rogan
Oh, like the Gamergate?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
People.
gavin mcinnes
So I lost those.
joe rogan
It's gay, like homosexual?
gavin mcinnes
It's pretty cool.
No, gay in the grade school sense.
joe rogan
That's meaningful.
Why is it lame to play video games?
Video games are fun.
unidentified
You're pretending you're Batman and 40 years old.
joe rogan
You could be 80 years old and still pretend you're Batman.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, that's fun.
Remember when we were kids?
We're probably the same age.
joe rogan
How old are you?
gavin mcinnes
I'm 45.
joe rogan
I'm 48.
gavin mcinnes
So you'd see those guys playing Star Wars with 10-year-olds when they were like 13, and you felt bad for those guys.
joe rogan
That's true.
gavin mcinnes
And now those guys, the average video game player is 31.
joe rogan
But why is it okay to play chess and it's not okay to play like a real online strategy game?
gavin mcinnes
I've been thinking about that a lot actually this week.
joe rogan
Really?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
And I think it's because when you play a silly game like poker or chess, there's some social interacting going on.
Like you'll go, you fucker.
Right.
Like you're in the room and you're talking to the guy and you develop a relationship.
And then, you know, later on, you guys are at a bar or something and it's like, you fuck me, just like you did two months ago with that checkmate move or something.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
So it's improving your relationship with the people around you.
joe rogan
Hmm.
That's interesting.
I never really considered that.
gavin mcinnes
But video games, you're shooting monsters.
It's into the void.
It's ephemera.
You're blowing away time like dust.
joe rogan
Well, they found that video games actually do improve cognitive function in some sort of a strange way and even can improve your vision.
gavin mcinnes
Sure.
Great.
joe rogan
It's kind of crazy because, you know, your vision, you're darting around the screen, especially like first-person shooters.
You know, you're looking for things that are trying to kill you.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, it's like those cab drivers in London have that overdeveloped part of their brain that does directions.
joe rogan
Really?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, they can physically see that part of the brain is sort of engorged, the directions part of the brain.
joe rogan
Whoa, so if they do like an fMRI on them or something like that?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, it's like someone who does CAT scans could probably identify a London cab driver.
joe rogan
Whoa, that's crazy.
gavin mcinnes
So that's good.
You're working out a muscle, but...
joe rogan
You know, because these fucking Uber drivers, they look like, it's just, it looks like a normal Camry or something like that, right?
And there's a cab driver, and the cab driver is pulling up these people that are waiting for something.
And I don't know what the deal was, whether the people had called an Uber or called a cab and an Uber.
You know, sometimes people will do that.
People are assholes.
You know, they'll call both and see, let's see who shows up first.
And the Uber guy was in front, and the cab driver is honking on his hormones screaming at them.
And the Uber driver, you could always tell the Uber driver because they always have an iPhone and one of those little iPhone holders so they could type in the address and just go.
It's always like sitting right there.
And, you know, I'm like, am I about to see some shit go down?
Because I was right next to it.
I was like, this guy's going to get out and kick this guy's ass or something's going to happen.
gavin mcinnes
Nothing better than seeing a live fight.
joe rogan
I've seen a lot of them.
gavin mcinnes
Couples, too.
Male and female couples having fight.
If you go to New Orleans during Mardi Gras and she's wasted and you're just like, I'm going to pull up a chair and grab some popcorn.
But I love riffing with people and I fucking hate cab drivers because they're from another country and they don't know how to riff.
Like the guy that brought me here, I'm like, what's going on with the traffic going the other way?
unidentified
And he goes, what, this year going that way?
gavin mcinnes
Yes, dude.
What do you think I mean?
We're not in traffic.
There's traffic right there.
unidentified
And he's like, oh, maybe they are going someplace, maybe.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, I know they're going.
I'm trying to get into, like, are they shopping?
joe rogan
So you want the small talk.
gavin mcinnes
I want the small talk.
joe rogan
See, I don't want the small talk.
So when I get the small talk, I'm like, I have to pull my earphones out.
What?
What are we?
Oh, yeah, I guess they're going to talk.
gavin mcinnes
Well, you've given up because you've been abused by immigrants for so long.
I want to riff with barmaids.
I want to riff with drivers.
I want to riff with the woman I'm ordering my coffee from.
And I just see these immigrants doing these jobs, and I go, these are teens jobs.
Where are the teens?
joe rogan
Oh, like driving cars are teens jobs?
gavin mcinnes
Yes.
joe rogan
Really?
Well, I actually, you know, I drove Lemos for a bit when I was in my 20s, my early 20s.
What's the matter, Jamie?
gavin mcinnes
Let me elaborate a little bit here.
In 2015, with unemployed teens everywhere and unemployed college students, they should be driving cabs.
Now, traditionally, I like the idea of Archie Bunker with the stubby cigar and the tweed hat saying that he saw a prostitute die right on this corner as we drive.
That's ideal.
But I'm saying, as far as fixing the system now, I want teens doing immigrant jobs.
joe rogan
See, I don't want teens driving.
Definitely.
Yeah, no.
gavin mcinnes
In the day?
joe rogan
No.
I didn't like the way I drove when I was a teenager.
I don't want anybody like me driving me.
And I don't mind immigrants as long as I can ask them where they're from.
And you're going to learn some weird shit about people.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, I asked the guy here, I go, he's just massacring the English language.
I'm watching someone just murder it.
Is Izplace company?
And I go, no, you mean, is the place we're going to a company?
Yes, I's place company.
And there's no interest in learning the language.
And I go, how long you been here for?
And he goes, six year.
I'm like, six year.
If I was in Armenia for six years, I would be an Armenian poet.
joe rogan
Yeah, but he could just go to Glendale and fit right in.
unidentified
Exactly.
gavin mcinnes
I almost asked that.
I almost said, why?
You only hang out with Armenians, right?
Like, no one assimilates anymore.
joe rogan
I like Armenians because they're the last unabashedly masculine ethnicity in this country.
gavin mcinnes
Well, Mexicans are machismo.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's true too.
But they've integrated more into the American culture, especially in Southern California.
Armenians, they walk around with gold chains and wife beaters on.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, those string vests.
joe rogan
I have a friend who's Armenian and his name is Armin, which is hilarious.
And he was talking about this girl that talked shit to him.
And he's like, and you know what?
This fucking bitch was Armenian.
Like, you don't know any better?
Like, they have special rules.
gavin mcinnes
There was this Armenian dude I knew a long time ago.
He was an enforcer for a loan shark.
And he's in jail now for double homicide.
unidentified
But he gave me the best tip about picking up chicks.
He goes, when, sorry, I'm burping a lot because I'm drinking beer.
When you're with woman, right?
gavin mcinnes
You say yes to everything.
If she's late, you say, no problem.
If she don't show up for date, you say, no problem.
Don't worry about it.
You pay for everything.
You say it's okay.
unidentified
If she's rude to you, even if she hit you, you say, oops, you know, you just let it go.
gavin mcinnes
Yes, yes, yes.
Then the second she say, I love you, you turn that bitch around and you fuck her in the ass and you punish her for all the bullshit she put you through.
joe rogan
Whoa.
gavin mcinnes
And it's true.
joe rogan
I think that guy's doing it wrong.
gavin mcinnes
Well, he is in jail.
It didn't work.
Prison, actually.
joe rogan
Oh, it's the real jail.
Not just jail jail.
What did he do?
gavin mcinnes
He murdered two people at once.
Double homicide.
joe rogan
Yeah, that'll put you away.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
People frown upon that.
gavin mcinnes
Well, we've noticed a pattern over time since Cave Days where when we allow that, it gets worse.
joe rogan
It gets worse and worse and worse.
That's one of the most amazing things about human history, how frequently people were just killing each other up until really recently.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like I was at a place recently, last week actually, that they didn't have cable, they didn't have internet, but they had a stack of DVDs.
And so we said, all right, what we got here?
And we watched Gangs of New York.
gavin mcinnes
Right.
joe rogan
And, you know, that opening scene with Liam Neeson's crew versus Daniel Day-Lewis' crew battling with fucking machetes and axes and shit.
Like, that's not that long ago.
gavin mcinnes
And that movie was hyperbolic, but there was like a claw lady who had the claws.
Bill the Butcher was a guy.
joe rogan
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
He did.
He was a butcher.
He did have a fucking glass eye.
joe rogan
Yeah, and he probably did kill a gang of fucking people.
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
Well, you look at life expectancy and you go, people died really young back then.
But no, I think those stats are skewed by the number of people who died, childbirth, five, 10 years old, 20 in a fight.
There's plenty of guys that lived till 75.
joe rogan
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
But so many people died young that it fucks the stats.
And you think everyone died at 30.
joe rogan
Yeah, stats are interesting like that, right?
Like you got to go, oh, how is that possible?
And then you look, oh, I see.
It's because so many people were murdered.
Oh, okay.
gavin mcinnes
Well, I was noticing the other day.
You look at old photos, like you got that old mug shot.
Who's that, Rosa Parks?
joe rogan
Yeah.
You're the first guy to guess that correctly.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, really?
joe rogan
By the way.
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
And they're all cross-eyed in them.
And she's not.
But I realize, oh, you were in a fucking all-out brawl.
And your retina got separated from your eye.
And then it was just, oh, well, I'm cross-eyed now.
joe rogan
From now on.
gavin mcinnes
I lost one eye.
This right eye doesn't work, but that's fine.
joe rogan
Yeah, they didn't fix anything back then.
I have a buddy.
I put this on Instagram yesterday.
It has a fucking nasty picture.
My buddy got a staph infection, and it became MRSA.
Do you know that medication-resistant staph infection?
Oh, oh, it's disgusting.
gavin mcinnes
I knew if a guy had that so bad.
Oh my God, that's fucking gross.
How deep is that hole?
joe rogan
Well, they had to open him up.
The big scar up the knee was because the infection was so bad.
They had to cut him open like a fish, and they had to disinfect the area and drain the area.
But it all came about because his knee was swollen.
So he had to get his knee drained.
And he got his knee drained, and he caught MRSA.
gavin mcinnes
At the hospital?
joe rogan
He doesn't know.
You don't know where you catch it.
And a lot of guys get it from jiu-jitsu.
Because jiu-jitsu, there's a lot of scratches and a lot of abrasions.
They actually have specific soap that they've developed just to keep your skin flora, your outside skin flora.
gavin mcinnes
You were just talking before the show About how jiu-jitsu ruined your back.
joe rogan
Well, it definitely hurts stuff.
gavin mcinnes
Let's stop the jiu-jitsu.
It's lose-lose.
What's the win?
joe rogan
You learn how to choke people.
It's very fun.
It's like the most advanced version of chess.
gavin mcinnes
Huh.
Everyone says that about every sport.
joe rogan
Yeah, they do.
I know.
It's like everybody calls chess.
gavin mcinnes
Boxing is chess.
joe rogan
It's like people say, well, that's our version of the word nigger.
They always like to do that.
It's that expression.
Gay people like to say that with the word faggot.
Or I've heard that with tranny.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, I heard that with long hair.
These dudes who, we did an article about invice a long time ago, but guys who are super serious about long hair and getting through that awkward phase, they call it when it's like here, and someone goes, get a haircut, and they go, that's our version of nigger.
That's like our version of being dragged behind a truck.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
gavin mcinnes
And I go.
joe rogan
Casper, Texas.
gavin mcinnes
Being dragged behind a truck is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to you.
Haircuts don't feel like anything.
joe rogan
Somebody really said that?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
They should be beaten.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That person should be thrown to a maximum security penitentiary.
That's a good doors.
Just have them get their ass kicked and stuff.
gavin mcinnes
Don't drag them behind a truck till they die.
Drag them behind a truck for 15 feet because that probably kills you.
joe rogan
It might kill you.
gavin mcinnes
It won't kill you, but it hurts like 15 feet.
joe rogan
It could have hit your head.
Depends on how you protect your head.
Because you might hurt your elbow and then lift your elbow up and then you face plant and then it's over.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Because how strong are you mentally to let your elbows just grind down to nothing?
Because once that 15 feet starts, you don't really know when it's going to end.
I mean, they might say they're going to take you for 15 feet, but you have to have faith that they don't just go, yeah, stop that fucking gas.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, my God.
I think it might be worse than drowning.
joe rogan
You meant 15 miles.
Yeah, it's worse than drowning.
gavin mcinnes
Worse than being buried alive, too?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, buried alive, I don't think, would be as painful.
It'd be horrific and terrifying.
Drowning, they say, is actually fairly peaceful once you just give it up.
It's like there's the struggle and then you give it up.
How would they know?
Burned the only people that are drowned.
gavin mcinnes
Burned alive.
Maybe they can test the stress levels on the cadaver or something.
I don't know why you'd die.
joe rogan
Did you do that?
gavin mcinnes
Let's go.
Burned alive top.
Dragbine and Chuck 2.
Drowning 3.
In Canada, we say buried.
Buried alive 4.
joe rogan
I say buried.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, you do?
joe rogan
Yeah.
What do people say?
Buried.
gavin mcinnes
How do you pronounce the space place N-A-S-H?
Buried.
joe rogan
NASA?
gavin mcinnes
NASA.
joe rogan
How do you say it?
gavin mcinnes
NASA.
joe rogan
Like the Bahamas?
gavin mcinnes
Well, it's two A's.
Why is your second A different than your first day?
NASA.
joe rogan
That's true.
gavin mcinnes
It's not N-A-S-E-H.
joe rogan
NASA.
NASA.
But what do some people say?
gavin mcinnes
Americans say NASA?
joe rogan
NASA.
gavin mcinnes
Canadians say NASA.
joe rogan
But why would you say NASA?
unidentified
There's no W. You're right.
joe rogan
That's stupid.
gavin mcinnes
You're right.
Wow, I'm learning a lot today.
joe rogan
We fixed it.
It's weird.
Black people love acronyms like FAME stands for, you know, forget anything, me, everyone.
You know what I mean?
gavin mcinnes
Well, I think it's a sign of lateness when you get into the word rather than go look it up and they'll be like, library, where they keep the lies.
joe rogan
No, that's different.
gavin mcinnes
And you're like, why don't you move past just the fucking word library and get into like publishing or what gets published and what doesn't.
I don't need you to take apart the syllables things.
joe rogan
My favorite is fear, false evidence appearing real.
No, no, no, no.
You should be fucking scared.
There's some shit that'll kill you.
gavin mcinnes
I'll tell you, that is the biggest, way worse than racism and anything else, the biggest albatross on black America's neck is this vision, this assumption that the world's out to get you.
And there's no sense in trying.
You can go to law school.
You can graduate alma cum laude or whatever it's called.
You won't get a law job because you're black.
So they go, well, fuck you, world.
Like when the Ferguson riots were cops are killing us, we're fighting back.
And you go, cops aren't killing you.
Stop assuming.
joe rogan
Well, they killed that one guy.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, sort of.
joe rogan
But the Ferguson one was the worst example.
It's weird how examples get picked up and then people run with like the worst one.
It's like, like Ferguson was, that was a bad guy.
That was a guy that had just committed a robbery just before, had punched the cop, was in a fist fight with the cop and got shot at close range.
Like he shot, and then shot him, and then people like, hands up, don't shoot.
Like that became the narrative.
Like, boy, I don't know if there's a lot of evidence that that hands-up thing happened at all.
That guy seems like a thug.
gavin mcinnes
I can get you black guys shot by cops.
I can get you black guys killed by racists.
I can get you black guys who stuck with their families and had kids and got fucked over and are in jail for no reason.
Let's do those guys right now.
He's not sexy enough.
joe rogan
Yeah, but like, here's a sexy one that I understand didn't take off as much, like the Tamir Rice kid.
The 12-year-old kid.
That guy saw that kid for two fucking seconds and shot him and killed him.
gavin mcinnes
That's the guy who had a BB gun?
joe rogan
Yeah, he had an airsoft gun.
And the guy who shot him had poor evaluations on his ability to handle stress, had a breakdown during one of his training exercises.
They said he was terrible at communicating to the point where they didn't think that he would be able to fix it.
They didn't think they'd be able to make him a good cop.
He resigned from that police force, was picked up by this police force, goes on to fucking kill this kid.
Then, on top of that, they have private people investigate it, or whatever groups they have investigated, and they decide that what he did seemed normal.
Like, that was the most recent finding, that what he did seemed like he was.
gavin mcinnes
Wasn't there a bunch of kids shooting people with BB guns in that area and doing robberies with BB guns?
It was an epidemic in that area.
joe rogan
I do not know that.
It may be possible, but either way, you don't fucking shoot a 12-year-old kid within two seconds of seeing him.
I mean, if he's got a BB gun, you just don't, you don't do that.
But to me, that one is like, oh my God, you're dealing with a 12-year-old boy who's playing with a gun, a toy gun.
I don't know whether or not There was an epidemic.
This is the first time I'm hearing that, but that makes a little more sense.
But that seems to me like a way better one to highlight.
That's a serious one.
gavin mcinnes
Well, the elephant in the room with all this stuff is black failure, white guilt.
And we need to explain why blacks are in prison.
We need to explain why blacks are doing badly.
And to say, oh, cops are fucking horrible racist pigs.
And America's racist explains away the failure.
And then there's no culpability.
And you go, oh, that's why they're doing bad.
It's our fault.
And then you can get on with your day.
But no, you're in jail because you'd committed a crime.
joe rogan
Right, but the problem is like when crime is all around you, you grow up in this environment that's the same as it was 30, 40 years ago.
I had this guy, Michael Wood, who's a Baltimore cop on the show.
And when he was a cop, he was talking about this area where they used to arrest people.
This is the area where the drugs were.
This area had a lot of violent crime in this place.
And they found this mandate from 1970 something, right?
70 something.
And when they found it, it was the exact same areas with the exact same crime.
Like they were going over the police reports from the 70s.
And they're like, Jesus Christ, are we fucking spinning our wheels or what?
Like this is the exact same areas, the exact same kind of crime.
Like it's never going to change.
It's just a swarm of bullshit in this one area.
These kids grow up in this.
It becomes their environment.
They become institutionalized.
Like it becomes their reality.
And then they're stuck.
And it's so hard to get out of that.
gavin mcinnes
It's so hard for me to empathize with that.
I mean, I look at Greenpoint, which is a really poor Polish neighborhood, and it's crime-free.
There's drunks all over the street passed out, but it's crime-free.
You look at any poor Eastern European neighborhood, like Brighton Beach in Brooklyn.
And I think of my dad.
My dad grew up so poor that his toes make me dry heave because he had his brothers hand-me-down shoes and they were too small.
And if you wear shoes too small, after an hour, you're like, I'm going to kill myself.
But his whole life was shoes that were too small.
It looks like Chinese footbinding.
And he fought every day of his life.
You know, slept with his brothers, whom he fought every day.
And he got scholarships because he was smart.
But in Glasgow, being a student is like the worst thing it can be.
So if you have a private school blazer, that's like wearing a Klansman uniform in Harlem.
So they go, you fucking shouldn't.
And then they would fight.
So his nose, he looks like a boxer.
He looks kind of like KRS-1.
His nose is totally flat.
He's got huge elephant, like inner tire lips.
I don't know why I said elephant.
Big elephant lips.
And he made tons of money and brought us to Canada, raised a middle-class family from poverty, and he never complained about it once.
And he would have a million reasons to say, that's why I fucked up and that's why I'm in jail.
He did go to jail.
joe rogan
But don't you think that this is an environment, like you're talking about, a guy who lived in a certain area and moved to another area, like had the courage and had the ambition to get out of that area.
And it became a thing with Europeans.
I mean, the United States was essentially founded by Europeans who weren't happy with Europe.
So these ambitious people that created this new environment and these new places and these new immigrants who all got together and they created these communities.
Like my grandparents lived in Newark, and that was an Italian community that all came over here.
They all came over from the boat from Italy.
And my grandfather on the other side came over from Ireland.
But this is like a group of people that were very ambitious and wanted to do better.
So they came to America.
Whereas you're dealing in the African-American community with people who are slaves.
gavin mcinnes
You don't use that word, do you?
joe rogan
African-American?
Why don't we say black?
gavin mcinnes
Yes, okay.
joe rogan
So black community, you're dealing with people whose ancestors were slaves, and then they are released and they live in these environments.
Then you have, in places like Baltimore, institutionalized racism where you're really not even allowed to sell.
But they did.
They had places where you weren't allowed to sell homes to black people.
gavin mcinnes
You want to talk about what the Irish stuff went through?
joe rogan
You want to talk about an echo of that?
There's an echo of that that lasts long.
gavin mcinnes
I don't know.
I think you're in 2015.
Your lot in life is who you are.
And I was actually thinking about you.
I was beating off the other day thinking about you.
No, but I was thinking about you.
joe rogan
Socks on or off?
gavin mcinnes
I had to take my socks off because I had to jizz in them.
But I used to, growing up punk rock, you laugh at Hollywood and you laugh at celebrity and you go, they're all fucking phony losers.
But in my old age, I'm starting to think, maybe these people are talented.
And you were on that show.
What was it, Radio Days?
joe rogan
News Radio.
gavin mcinnes
News Radio, right?
Look at all the other people on that show.
I think you get 11 million listeners.
Is that right?
joe rogan
It's probably a little more than that now.
gavin mcinnes
A really insane episode of Hannity, which is the most successful show on the most successful network, I think gets 4 million.
unidentified
11 million is fucking insane.
gavin mcinnes
I think Anderson Cooper gets 100,000 viewers.
So I'm starting to think maybe Joe Rogan is just very talented.
Like Jennifer Aniston, she was on that show with Friends, right?
Courtney Cox had her Cougar Town thing.
Normally I would roll my eyes at this, but I honestly was thinking about this yesterday.
I thought, wait a minute, she went from Friends to Hollywood.
Maybe she's just a really good actress.
Maybe she's just really good at her job.
And if you dropped her out of a plane in Costa Rica, maybe within a few days she'd have like a coconut stand.
And, you know, maybe she was genetically predisposed to be successful.
joe rogan
Well, I don't necessarily think it's genetically predisposed, but she certainly worked at it.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, but they all did.
Everyone on Friends worked at it.
joe rogan
I don't think they did.
I mean, Matt LeBlanc's got a show now on Showtime, right?
He has some show that no one else is.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, like Joey, where he plays himself.
joe rogan
No, it's some new show.
It's like he let his hair grow gray, and I don't know what the fuck he's doing.
But the other people on the show, they made a shitload of money, and that kills ambition, right?
And they kind of stopped.
But she was the only one that really developed a film career.
And obviously she works hard, but that's the case with almost all those shows.
It's like one person goes on to do everything.
gavin mcinnes
And what I'm saying is maybe that person was very talented.
Like Phil Hartman was on news radio.
joe rogan
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
Incredibly talented guy.
He would be rich and famous if his fucking wife didn't blow his head off.
joe rogan
Yeah, no doubt.
Unquestionably.
gavin mcinnes
Or the guy that was on the show from Kids in the Hall.
joe rogan
Dave Foley.
gavin mcinnes
Maybe he's not talented.
joe rogan
No, he's very talented.
But Dave, he went through a fucking horrible divorce and is still going to be.
unidentified
Everyone did.
joe rogan
Half the country's divorced.
This is what happened.
I'll explain to you.
He was married while he was on news radio, and he was making more money than ever in his life.
gavin mcinnes
What, like 30 grand an episode?
joe rogan
Probably, maybe more than that.
I think I was probably making that.
So he's probably making more than me.
gavin mcinnes
50.
joe rogan
Yeah, something like that.
And when they broke up and got divorced, the judge ordered him to pay a certain amount of child support, not alimony, a certain amount of alimony, but the child support was based upon the amount of money that he was making at the time.
And he had to argue that that was unreasonable.
And the judge literally said to him, your ability to pay has no relation to your obligation to pay.
And he's like, what the fuck does that mean?
Like, you have an obligation to pay.
I don't care what your ability to pay is.
This is what the obligation is.
gavin mcinnes
That's probably true if you remove the amount.
If you have a kid, you're obligated to pay.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, you're looking at, you know, he's making several hundred thousand dollars a month, and then all of a sudden he has to pay half of that, and he can't.
So he was, like, within a very short order, it was half a million dollars in debt to this woman who is, in his words, a raging cunt.
She was always a crazy person.
She's just in his eyes.
gavin mcinnes
I know, but again, I'm lacking empathy.
And I'm Dante Nero.
Do you know who he is?
Beige Phillips?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Yes.
gavin mcinnes
His shit is, and I agree with him, if your marriage failed, you fucked up.
With a few exceptions.
Like Jim Goad's wife is fucking insane.
But if your marriage failed, then your boat sank and you're the captain of the ship.
And why did you have kids?
Like Louis C.K., he's bragging about his divorce and how awesome it was.
And I've talked to friends.
I know all his friends.
I don't know him.
But they're always like, well, she was a nut and she was a rich artist type and she wasn't livable withable.
And I go, why'd you come in her then?
Why'd you come in a crazy bitch?
So even if you accept it, people change.
joe rogan
It's your fault.
People move.
gavin mcinnes
No, that's what I'm saying.
You control their change.
unidentified
If you're a real man, you control her.
joe rogan
But you can't.
gavin mcinnes
And the kids.
joe rogan
People change.
Men change, women change.
You can't control together.
But you don't always.
gavin mcinnes
You have to change yourself.
Sometimes you just want your job there.
That's like saying you have a corporation and your employees, you know, you say, oh, well, my employees changed.
No, this is how we're running the company.
You guys have to show up nine to five and we're going to do it this way.
We're making grapple grummits.
joe rogan
Well, sometimes things, even though they're successful, they fail over time.
Like Pontiac.
The GTO is an awesome car.
So is a Transam.
None of them exist anymore.
Pontiac doesn't think that.
gavin mcinnes
They should have adapted.
joe rogan
Or not.
They should have made shitty or just cough drums.
unidentified
Look at it.
joe rogan
They did a good job.
gavin mcinnes
Look at Doc Martin's GTO's work of art.
joe rogan
Let's get out of here.
gavin mcinnes
Doc Martin's were punk skinhead shoes.
Then they were 90s grunge shoes.
joe rogan
Now they're lesbian footwear.
gavin mcinnes
And then they went, let's be lesbian footwear.
We got to adapt.
Let's become flu vogs.
joe rogan
Right.
Well, certainly you can adapt, but you might be happier.
You might be happier breaking up, giving her money, and then finding young girls that you can have sex with, like Louis C.K. is doing.
gavin mcinnes
I'm against it.
joe rogan
Why?
unidentified
That's not the way it goes.
gavin mcinnes
And it's bad for the kids.
joe rogan
Okay, that I agree with you.
That I agree with you.
gavin mcinnes
And what's worse, you need to have...
You have to have kids.
So you don't have kids, right?
joe rogan
I have three.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, that's awesome.
Are you married?
Oh, great.
The three kids you have are with her?
joe rogan
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
Well, that's fucking, I'm glad.
I can relax.
Because every time I talk about divorce and kids, especially with people in the comedy world, I'm talking to someone who's divorced and never had kids.
joe rogan
Well, it's very common.
But I am married specifically because I have kids.
And they'll see, I mean, I've always said, don't get married, don't get married.
Marriage is a contract with the state, which I agree with up until when I had kids, I was like, look, bringing a life into the world to me is way more of a commitment than a legal contract that you can get out of with a lawyer.
Right.
So like that, that contract, the contract with the child was so much bigger and so much more involving.
And I had so much more commitment to raising kids.
I was like, okay, let's do it.
Like, if you want to, like, and if I get divorced somewhere down the line.
gavin mcinnes
Then you fucked up.
joe rogan
Well, maybe not.
You know, maybe it's just people want to move on.
No, not while throwing the towel.
What I'm saying is not while the kids are young.
I mean, I'll do everything I can to not because I just think for kids, it, well, I say that, but goddamn it, I know a lot of goddamn interesting people that became interesting.
I'm not going to use this as an excuse because I'm actually happily married, but people that became interesting because they went through childhood breakups and they moved around a lot.
gavin mcinnes
Sort of.
I mean, Mike Tyson's a good fighter because his childhood was hell.
Didn't he want everyone to have a shitty childhood so they become good friends?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
No, I mean, it's not necessarily a good fighter, but I mean, like, interesting people.
Like, every interesting person that I know overcame adversity.
They went through some crazy shit.
gavin mcinnes
That's a great point.
That's a great point.
joe rogan
That's a hard thing.
You have children?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, I got three.
joe rogan
So when you're, you know, I'm sure you take care of your kids, but do you think of it like, man, I'm sort of sheltering these children from the very things that made me interesting?
A lot of my friends that have kids, we kind of go through that dilemma.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, but I got plans for that.
I mean, I want to send them to boarding school.
Yeah.
joe rogan
For real?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Boarding camp.
Boarding school.
gavin mcinnes
Really?
joe rogan
Like, send them away to go to school?
gavin mcinnes
Every top producer at Fox News went to boarding school.
joe rogan
Okay, well, then don't send your kids to boarding school.
There you go.
You got that nailed.
gavin mcinnes
I keep thinking you're right-wing, but you're not right-wing.
joe rogan
I'm in some ways.
Okay.
In some way.
I'm an outlier.
I'm a middle of the road.
I'm in the NRA, but I support gay rights and, you know, and a million other things, pro-choice, million other things that people would associate with left-wing.
I'm obviously pro-marijuana.
gavin mcinnes
Right.
Well, you're normal, basically.
joe rogan
I just don't believe in right or left.
I think most of it is bullshit.
And these ideologies that you have to rigidly apply, you know, and you originally adhere to the right or the left, and you, you know, you automatically...
He was talking about Democrats.
He's like, well, we got to win the Senate because if we win the Senate, I go, we.
What is this we shit?
What is this we?
Are you on a team?
Are you on a team?
Because you're talking we.
Like, are you, he goes, well, as a lifelong Democrat, I'm like, you're a lifelong Democrat.
Yeah, that's crazy.
gavin mcinnes
It's like the Dallas Cowboys.
I just want people to be left alone.
I want in politics, there's two groups.
It's people who want to be left the fuck alone and people who won't leave them the fuck alone.
And I tend to go right on most things because the right, as of today, seems to want smaller government than the left.
But that's not always true.
Like George W. Bush spent way more than Clinton.
joe rogan
I don't know if I believe that.
I think they just go where the money is.
I think they go where the money is and they go where the influence is.
You know, we were talking before the show about this thing that I'm doing with Anthony Bourdain, where we're going to an episode of his show that we're going hunting for birds, and we're going to talk about public land versus private land.
And Steve Rinella, who's the host of the show, Meat Eater, who's on the podcast earlier this week, had a really good point about politics.
He's like, he said, I'm a political eunuch, was his words.
He goes, because you got the left, which is trying to take away gun rights.
So I can't support that.
Then you got the right who supports your gun rights, but they're taking away private land.
They're taking away, or public land that is used for hunting.
They're selling it away to corporations.
And so he goes, like, I'm kind of fucked.
He goes, because on both hands, because he's a professional hunter.
So on both sides, he's like, I can't adhere to either one of these.
gavin mcinnes
The right is selling land away to corporations?
joe rogan
What I think is doing is there are many in the Republican administration and many on that side that are supporting the rights of corporations to either sell away or take away some public land that is right now used.
You know, there's public national parks and public areas.
When they find these resource-rich areas that they can exploit and make a lot of money, then they'll sell contracts to these corporations.
I mean, this is what's going on in Alaska when they're talking about drilling and stuff.
gavin mcinnes
But maybe if you give it time, the free market will make nature better.
I mean, we saw that in Zimbabwe.
Mugabe was starving the fucking wildlife to death, and then he started selling off the land.
They realized that it is in their best interest to have lions and fucking zebras and giraffes running around.
So wildlife started coming back.
And that Cecil the Lion dude was a result of the free market getting involved in hunting.
joe rogan
But that's a very extreme example of an insanely poor area.
And on top of that, one of the best versions of that, there's a Louis Theroux documentary on these African hunting camps.
And I hunt, so I have these conversations with people all the time.
The way they did it in Africa, most of the animals that are hunted on a regular basis now were on the verge of extinction.
All these different elands and different bucks and different kinds of deer and antelope, they're fucking dying off like crazy.
But now they have them in these private hunting camps.
So they have thousands of them.
And they're thriving.
But they're thriving so that people can go over there and kill them.
Like it's this crazy catch-22.
gavin mcinnes
No, you can't.
joe rogan
You can't do it.
gavin mcinnes
It's like the guy who found a Greenpeace, who's now kind of anti-Greenpeace, goes, if you want more forests, buy more wood.
Because you incentivize trees.
joe rogan
Right, but in order to get a real good hardwood tree that's 100 feet tall, it has to grow for hundreds of years.
And if you chop all those fuckers down, you're not going to have any.
Not only that, you change the environment in which these trees grow.
All the birds, the songbirds disappear.
Their nesting areas go away.
The environment completely changes.
Like, there's a lot of issues.
You can't just say, like, go in there and chop it.
gavin mcinnes
In North America, there's more trees now than there ever was before.
And that's more trees than there was before.
More trees now.
No, a lot of them are small.
Time is skinny.
But that's because we like trees.
We need trees.
joe rogan
Well, because we sell them.
gavin mcinnes
I look at like Ducks Unlimited, right?
Isn't that run by hunters?
joe rogan
Yes.
gavin mcinnes
So they are doing more for marshlands than the government ever could.
joe rogan
That's true.
Yeah, that is true.
But that's because they want those lands.
Those are public lands, though.
Like the lands that they're preserving, these habitats are public.
gavin mcinnes
So what are these corporations doing with this land?
joe rogan
Well, look, fracking.
Fracking's a huge issue.
gavin mcinnes
Fracking's awesome.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, is it?
Yeah.
It's not awesome if you live downwater from it and you're waiting for it.
gavin mcinnes
It doesn't pollute water.
There's a possibility it could pollute water.
joe rogan
It definitely pollutes water.
gavin mcinnes
No, it does not.
joe rogan
But there's definitely wells that have been polluted by fracking.
gavin mcinnes
Maybe one.
joe rogan
Oh, come on, man.
That's not true.
That's not true.
gavin mcinnes
How many movies was a light your tap water on fire?
That water was always flammable.
It's naturally occurring methane in the water.
There's Burning Springs, New York.
joe rogan
I think it's methane.
gavin mcinnes
Methane.
joe rogan
Nassau.
unidentified
They use centrifugal force.
gavin mcinnes
That water was always flammable.
That's why people frack there because there's methane in the water.
joe rogan
Well, I don't know if that's the case.
gavin mcinnes
It's the case.
joe rogan
It can be that that's the case.
It also can be.
gavin mcinnes
It's risky, just like an air conditioner falling on your head is risky.
Everything has inherent risk.
And where I am in the Catskills, my place upstate, there's tons of perfect land for fracking.
And these people, all the hippies, all the weekenders, the Sidiots, as they're called.
unidentified
I'm one of them.
joe rogan
The Sidiots?
unidentified
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
They banned it.
Mark Ruffalo is one of the big guys up where I am.
joe rogan
Oh, the Hulk?
gavin mcinnes
The Hulk banned it.
And these kids in my neighborhood up there are in Afghanistan.
So they're going there, risking their lives to get what I call unethical oil, oil from people who stone women to death, because we've considered natural gas some sort of, and fucking 80% of your natural gas is already fracked.
All of Ohio, Texas, that's all fracking.
joe rogan
Well, it's certainly changed the price of gas.
Gas has dropped dramatically since they started doing that.
unidentified
Frack it up.
joe rogan
But I don't know.
Frack it up.
I'm scared of them polluting wells, and I'm scared of them ruining water supplies and the underground water supplies.
gavin mcinnes
Okay, this is a lot of ideas and LA in general.
joe rogan
Me and L.A. in general.
I'm a part of L.A. in general.
gavin mcinnes
That's a pattern I've noticed here.
joe rogan
Okay.
gavin mcinnes
Where you go, like I heard You with Greg Fitzsimmons, and you were talking about teachers.
And you're like, the children are our future.
They don't get paid enough.
unidentified
Right.
gavin mcinnes
And it's Mark Marin says that too.
I got in a fight with him, and he never aired my What the Fuck podcast.
joe rogan
What?
Really?
Why?
gavin mcinnes
Well, here's my theory: he claimed it was because I came out as a transphobe, and what our interview is now incomplete, and it would be weird to release it without us discussing trans.
joe rogan
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
You came out post-interview as a transphobe?
gavin mcinnes
Yes.
joe rogan
Why is having an opinion on something, whether it's a negative or positive opinion, why is that a phobia?
gavin mcinnes
Exactly.
And that was my point.
I said, your dad cutting his cock off, you're scared.
That's scared.
Like, that would be scary.
You wouldn't be like, good morning, I guess, mom.
You would be freaked the fuck out.
And that's a phobia.
So we're all transphobic.
So I said, transphobia is perfectly natural.
joe rogan
Well, I think I have shit for this, too.
gavin mcinnes
You're talking about the MMA.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it's only because this guy was a guy for 30 years, became a woman for literally 24 months, started beating the fuck out of women.
And if you watch the fights, you're not talking about even a skillful person.
It's just like it's someone who's just got a completely different frame.
I mean, the way he's throwing these girls around.
But that's...
I don't give a fuck.
If you want to woman.
gavin mcinnes
Well, I do, obviously I support it.
But here's a big misnomer with this whole live and let live thing.
Like, Anthony Camillo always says, hey, you want to get married?
You want to be gay?
unidentified
Go.
gavin mcinnes
I don't give a fuck.
Fuck you.
Now that we've legalized gay marriage, people are getting fined.
Like a couple in upstate New York got fined $13,000 for not having a gay marriage in their living room.
joe rogan
What?
I don't understand what that means.
gavin mcinnes
Well, they usually host marriages.
So they said, no, we don't want to do this here because it's our living room.
So I'm a live and let live dude.
And now that gay marriage is a thing, people are being forced to go against their religious beliefs.
So it looks like gay marriage is let everyone be, but it's actually fucking with Christians.
joe rogan
Well, that's a very rare case, isn't it?
Isn't that a pretty rare case where someone's having these marriages in their living room?
Totally.
Yeah, I don't think you should.
I don't know.
You want to talk rare.
gavin mcinnes
Gays wanting to get married is rare.
joe rogan
How rare is it?
gavin mcinnes
They don't want to get married.
joe rogan
One on my block.
gavin mcinnes
No.
My neighbors are getting married, these two fags upstate.
unidentified
And they use that word.
joe rogan
Majoritive term.
gavin mcinnes
They go, yeah, I just proposed.
And I'm like, oh, great.
And then one of our mutual friends goes, isn't this exciting?
And I go, no.
They have eightsoms.
joe rogan
Eightsoms?
gavin mcinnes
Eightsoms.
Like I've bragged before, I've had a bunch of threesomes.
In the hetero world, that's hot shit.
But to them, I'm a fag.
joe rogan
Because you've only had threesomes?
gavin mcinnes
We have eightsms all the time.
And I'm like, I can't even picture, like, where do your legs go?
joe rogan
Yeah, where's the eightsms?
gavin mcinnes
How much cum?
unidentified
Your hair must look like mine, but with cum.
gavin mcinnes
Like, you must have towels.
joe rogan
Maybe they're doing it tantric.
They're just holding it in.
gavin mcinnes
Sucking toes, I mean, even a foursome is kind of...
unidentified
Yes.
gavin mcinnes
It's hard to maneuver.
You feel like you're walking around with a clipboard.
joe rogan
It's overrated.
gavin mcinnes
Are you okay?
How are we doing over here?
joe rogan
It's missing the critical aspect that makes sex great is when you're really into someone and they're really into you.
Like, that's the perfect example.
When you can't get that, prostitution is a nice second.
But when you get when two people are really into each other, like you're sharing a moment together, and then there's this other person, and what about me?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, yeah.
I guess I'm on a ship.
I'm singing.
What should I do over here?
joe rogan
It's like even a trip.
gavin mcinnes
Even if you go on a trip with three people, it's kind of weird.
joe rogan
It can be, but it could be awesome.
It depends on how they gel.
I mean, I've had friends that their wife is a freak, and they have threesomes, or their girlfriend's a freak, and they have threesomes, and they go out and hunt for girls, and they do it on purpose, and they enjoy it.
gavin mcinnes
That must be fun.
And believe me, if my wife brought a chick home, I would not be kicking her out of bed for eating crackers.
joe rogan
I've never experienced that.
gavin mcinnes
When I was courting her, she goes, I might be a lesbian, so don't be surprised if I bring chicks home.
joe rogan
Oh, I was like, oh, one of those deals.
gavin mcinnes
And we're 10 years in.
Where are the chicks?
Where are the fucking threesomes?
joe rogan
Yeah, that's a crock of shit.
gavin mcinnes
But the reason you have threesomes, and I, guys, if you're listening, never turn it down, struggle, work hard.
They're really hard to set up.
joe rogan
Sounds like a pop-town.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, like I would say I've probably had about four or five, and a good two-thirds of them, I was like a tour manager.
Like, when are you in town?
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
Setting it up.
Well, maybe at 8.30.
One of them I had to fake.
Look, you go to the bar and you pretend that I know you from high school and you go, oh, my God.
And then we'll go upstairs to your hotel.
joe rogan
Oh, you had to fake it.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Interesting.
gavin mcinnes
So you got to do those, though, because you beat off about them in your 60s.
joe rogan
Oh, I see.
gavin mcinnes
So you're filming it with your eyeballs, taking it all in, but the actual act itself is kind of annoying.
joe rogan
It can be.
gavin mcinnes
And that's why I was saying to the gays, they don't, they're never going to have kids.
They're fucking my age.
You have eight SIMs.
You take kids and monogamy out of marriage.
joe rogan
What's left?
I think they want to be able to visit each other when they're in the hospital.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, that old thing.
That's like with abortion where they go, what if your dad rapes you?
Can you get an abortion then?
And you go, you mean all one times that happened?
Why are we dictating policy based on this crazy scenario?
joe rogan
Yeah, I think you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, you shouldn't have to have lesbians married in your living room.
joe rogan
But if you're gay, you should be able to get married, right?
I don't think you should have to go to a place.
gavin mcinnes
Totally.
joe rogan
But a place has to be.
gavin mcinnes
My shit is they're bullshitting.
joe rogan
What do you mean?
gavin mcinnes
They don't want to get married.
It's just a thing to fuck with us.
joe rogan
Don't you think some of them do?
gavin mcinnes
Three.
joe rogan
Ah.
gavin mcinnes
And they're lesbians.
joe rogan
This is like your fracking number.
One well.
gavin mcinnes
You don't really have real statistics.
But, you know, gays are 1% of the population.
Say half of them are less.
joe rogan
Is it really 1%?
gavin mcinnes
It's 1%.
joe rogan
So it's 1 out of 100 is gay.
unidentified
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
Like, think of your classrooms.
joe rogan
How many are lying, though?
How many are gay and they just never commit?
So maybe it's 2 out of 100.
We all know one click.
gavin mcinnes
No, if you're gay, you're gay.
Like, suck a dick.
joe rogan
Yeah, but we all know one clause of this guy, right?
gavin mcinnes
He's a fag.
But this whole thing, like, oh, we, like, the far-right religious guy is going, we need to get our kids away from gayness or they're going to go gay.
Suck a million dicks.
Margaret Cho says this.
She goes, if you think gay is something you can learn, then I got some bad news for you.
You're gay.
I could suck one dick right now.
I'll suck a dick right now.
joe rogan
You ready?
gavin mcinnes
Okay, here we go.
There's a gun to my head.
I'm sorry.
joe rogan
You're still not gay.
You just sucked a dick.
unidentified
Right.
gavin mcinnes
Now, here's my 999th cock.
This guy's, I've been a hostage for two months.
joe rogan
I think you'd get way better at it.
I think you'd be more efficient because you'd realize if you're more efficient and you pretended you were into it, it would go by quicker.
gavin mcinnes
Maybe, yeah.
joe rogan
It's like when your wife faces you come quicker.
I think that's what's happening.
I don't give a shit if my wife comes.
How dare you?
So, but you know, if she's turned on, you get more excited, right?
That's the idea.
Yeah, baby.
gavin mcinnes
You know, people talk about women who are bad in bed.
That's like a painter saying that a canvas is bad.
She's just your canvas.
You have to maneuver.
joe rogan
And that's another reason why women are bad in bed, male and female.
gavin mcinnes
Women can't be bad in bed.
joe rogan
That's not true.
Girls are awkward.
They grind on you weird.
They fucking.
gavin mcinnes
Then you slap her and you say, don't do that.
You fucking go.
Turn over.
joe rogan
We are talking real here.
So, like this Mark Maron thing.
Tell me what happened.
gavin mcinnes
Okay, so we were in...
We did the podcast, and he's got that L.A. fucking thing where...
unidentified
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
Where it's like, I'm not going to look it up.
I'm just going to go by my emotions.
Woman politics, basically.
Jesse Ventura is like this too.
unidentified
So what you're saying is people in other countries aren't as good as people in America.
gavin mcinnes
I say something about Mexico and he goes, I go to Mexico.
It's great.
unidentified
Navy SEAL.
joe rogan
I live in Mexico.
gavin mcinnes
And I go, Jesse, that's cool.
That's your experience.
That's anecdotal evidence.
I'm talking about millions of people.
unidentified
I met a black guy who had a Nobel Peace Prize in physics.
gavin mcinnes
Okay.
So black people are awesome at physics.
unidentified
Anyway.
joe rogan
So he was doing this L.A. thing.
gavin mcinnes
And he was saying...
joe rogan
What was the L.A. thing?
gavin mcinnes
Well, the problem with education is...
joe rogan
I think it's a more prestigious position.
gavin mcinnes
They get paid $60 an hour.
joe rogan
Who does?
gavin mcinnes
New Jersey teachers.
joe rogan
Okay, one state?
gavin mcinnes
No.
joe rogan
California, they get paid shit.
gavin mcinnes
They probably go down to, let's say, $40 an hour.
Per hour worked.
joe rogan
Per hour worked.
gavin mcinnes
Can you imagine having your summers off?
joe rogan
That'd be nice.
gavin mcinnes
I would die of boredom.
joe rogan
But I don't know if that's true.
So while they're in school, they're getting $60 an hour.
gavin mcinnes
Per hour worked, yeah.
joe rogan
So how many hours do they work a day?
gavin mcinnes
Jack shit.
Oh, but we have to do lesson plans.
No, you fucking don't.
You've been teaching that same class for three years.
joe rogan
But they still have to do lesson plans, don't they?
gavin mcinnes
They're just in autopilot.
It's karaoke at this point.
joe rogan
So what are you saying?
They should get some sort of an alternative to them.
gavin mcinnes
I'm saying they privatize it, and it should be possible to fire them.
And that's what I said to Marin.
joe rogan
He goes, he goes, I agree with that.
gavin mcinnes
He said that whole systemic thing.
I fucking hate that word.
It's systemic, and there's not just one thing that can nail it.
And I go, yeah, there is.
It's called getting fired.
And in Harlem, they have charter schools now, and teachers can be fired.
They are fucking thriving.
Blacks in Harlem are getting educated, and it's kicking ass.
And the left is floundering because they hate, they like blacks as their little pet victims.
And when the free market helps them, they go, wait, don't help my victims.
That's mine.
And I saw the New York Times headline.
It said, though charter schools thrive in Harlem, it's not a fix-all.
And the article was basically saying, not all black kids can go to charter schools in Harlem, so they're not that great.
joe rogan
Oh, that's hilarious.
Open up more charter schools.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, let's have more of them.
So I said to Mayor and I go, there is one thing.
It's called getting them fired.
And then it got weird after that, and he was just reading my Wikipedia page and talking about shit.
joe rogan
Oh, what was he?
Like trying to find things that you do wrong?
gavin mcinnes
No, it was just he didn't want to be there.
So he was like, what do I ask this guy about?
joe rogan
He didn't want to be there.
So he had shut down after that?
That was it?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
So what do you think was the trigger?
Just the fact that you weren't willing to.
gavin mcinnes
I think I nailed him on education and he didn't like it.
He probably thought, we're not releasing this.
And then he went through Wikipedia, like, hey, I saw that you did this.
joe rogan
That's a power trip.
That's a power trip.
Well, that's doing that, not releasing it.
Like, I have conversations where I don't agree with people all the time.
And I'm going to do it.
gavin mcinnes
It's good radio.
joe rogan
Well, I don't mind disagreeing with somebody.
You know what?
This is funny, man.
The comments, like people say, like, oh, you and that fucking guy fought like cats and dogs.
No, no, we just didn't agree on things.
gavin mcinnes
Right.
joe rogan
I shake their hand afterwards.
One guy, one guy in the history of that Brian Dunning guy was probably the one guy because he was so fucking dead in his head.
His brain was so rotten.
He just couldn't grasp simple concepts.
gavin mcinnes
I don't believe in disagreements.
I think that one guy has more information than the other guy.
And I would just want to get there to the right answer.
joe rogan
Well, I also want to see how you got to your answer.
And there sometimes is not a right answer or a wrong answer.
It's just this is how you look at it.
And even though if I, and I play devil's advocate sometimes too much, because I want to see what your arguments are to the contrary.
I want to see what the thought process is.
gavin mcinnes
Every time I've had a fight with someone, and we leave and we're not agreeing, they're wrong.
And the one, they have less information.
And it's happened to me once.
David Cross and I, we were doing Coke and we argued for eight hours about.
joe rogan
Did you just out David Cross as a Coke user?
gavin mcinnes
He did Coke in the White House.
I think he outed.
joe rogan
Did he really?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That explains a lot.
That explains his letter to the cable guy.
Open letter to Larry the Cable Guy.
unidentified
Oh, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
From the desk of the camera.
gavin mcinnes
I don't think he does Coke anymore.
He's old and married.
But this was a long time ago.
And I was talking about free lunch programs, and I go, it's fucking stupid.
Lunch is a ham sandwich.
I did the math, and it's like a buck 80.
I go, bums get 10 bucks a day to do vodka.
You can't, you had a kid and you can't scrape together $1.80 for a ham sandwich?
Because the liquid is just the water fountain.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it's not the kid's fault.
gavin mcinnes
I understand, but the state can't be supplying people with $1.80 sandwich.
joe rogan
If the state can't supply kids with a little bit of food, $1.80 worth of food, you use the argument in the opposite way, too.
If the state can't come up with $1.80 for a kid for a sandwich, then the state's fucked up.
gavin mcinnes
No, I'm saying it's as crazy as the state going, we're going to come in and brush your teeth.
Like, we have to give you some basic things that you're expected to do.
That's like helping kids go poo-poo.
$1.80, the mom, you have to go to the house.
joe rogan
it doesn't cost money to brush your teeth, it doesn't cost money to wash your hands.
It costs money to feed a kid.
gavin mcinnes
But where do we draw the line?
joe rogan
But that's where you draw the line with kids.
They can't fucking support themselves.
They're little kids.
They don't have jobs.
So if a kid is hungry, and it all costs $1.80 to make a huge fight.
gavin mcinnes
This is a hungry fight I had with them.
joe rogan
It's not a bad fight.
Because I just, I feel like, look, I was a kid.
I was poor.
We were on welfare and we drank powdered milk and the whole deal.
And, you know, I was hungry.
I remember being hungry.
gavin mcinnes
Well, that didn't fucking rare in 2015 a kid being hungry.
joe rogan
This is in the second.
gavin mcinnes
The state can't be saying.
And I know the way it works in school.
Even my own kids, they go, do you want lunch or do you want the school lunch today?
It just became a thing that was expected.
And the state has to go at some point.
All right, we got to draw the line here.
No kids are like, have hunger pains because they're mommy.
You have to be a fucking crackhead.
joe rogan
Well, there's a lot of people who are.
There's a lot of people who are crackheads that have kids.
gavin mcinnes
Okay, well, then that's a bigger fish to fry.
Now we have to deal with kids having kids.
joe rogan
There's a lot of people that are irresponsible that have children.
I think if you're going to have a state school or a state-sponsored school, a state's going to pay for everything.
Think about all the shit that's so good.
gavin mcinnes
What does that kid have for dinner that night?
joe rogan
I don't know.
Nothing.
But while you're in school, while the kid's in school, you're irresponsible for that kid for whatever seven, eight hours, whatever it is, a kid goes to school.
gavin mcinnes
This mother is so useless, she can't scrape together a ham sandwich.
And now we let the kid go at 320.
Our services has to take this kid away.
joe rogan
You could argue that.
gavin mcinnes
This woman is not competent.
She can't fuck.
We have to take that kid away.
I guess that's what I was saying.
If your kid, if you can't supply a ham sandwich to your kid, I have to take your kid away.
joe rogan
Well, at a certain level, you've got to figure out like when is someone completely incompetent, right?
There's a scale.
It's not.
gavin mcinnes
$1.80 a day for lunch is incompetent.
joe rogan
I don't think there's anything wrong with supplying kids with food at school for free.
And I think that if you look at what needs society should cover, like what should society cover?
Should they cover the police?
Should the police be private?
Should they cover the fire department?
Should that be private?
I mean, there's a bunch of arguments for what your taxes should and should not pay for.
I don't think it's unreasonable.
gavin mcinnes
I'm not sure if I can say that.
joe rogan
80% of public schools, public schools, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that you should provide the kids with food.
gavin mcinnes
No, it's not unreasonable to say you should provide kids who shit their pants with underwear.
But if a kid is shitting his pants, we have an issue here.
So if a mother can't afford lunch, sorry, that kid's out.
joe rogan
Anyway, okay.
gavin mcinnes
Dr. Dr. David.
But that was the only time that David and I, we both had 100% of the facts.
And after eight hours and probably a gram of Coke, we were like, let's agree to disagree.
joe rogan
That's the only time you ever agreed.
gavin mcinnes
Only time in my life, everyone had all the facts, and we still disagreed at the end.
Otherwise, disagreements are someone who doesn't understand what was happening.
And Mark Maron was just saying, oh, they need, there's not one thing, it's systemic.
And it was, you know, he personifies this sort of fake beta male comedian with the cardigan and the, oh, I'm such a mess.
I'm so fucked up.
And these guys fuck 20-year-old girls while complaining and scratching their heads and going, I'm a mess.
And I realized, like, this year, we have this narrative of the jock with the Letterman shirt, right?
The UVA frat boy, date raping chicks.
I'm going through my own Rolodex, and I see those guys cleaning up a drunk chick's barf, and I see the beta male comedians fucking chicks, fucking passed out chicks.
joe rogan
What beta male comedians are fucking passed out chicks?
gavin mcinnes
All of them.
And you know what comedians do?
joe rogan
You're doing like a gonzo journalist thing here.
You're like half serious, half reality, partially fiction.
And it makes your arguments very difficult to do.
gavin mcinnes
Go through your own history and think of every time you know of a guy who fucked a passed out chick.
joe rogan
I don't know anybody.
gavin mcinnes
He's not a job.
joe rogan
He's not a passed out chick.
gavin mcinnes
He's like, he runs a, he does an indie fucking show.
joe rogan
If I know a guy who fucked a passed out chick, he didn't tell me about it.
I don't know anybody that fucked a passed out chick.
gavin mcinnes
Well, it's usually contentious.
Like the guy I'm thinking of, she was sort of like, I don't remember fucking him, and I'm never speaking to him again, but it was kind of wishy-washy.
And he's not a, like, I know these super handsome dudes, these two guys.
One of them used to be a male model, and this chick invited them over, and she got two wasted.
I think she wanted to get gangbanged.
And she fucking drank a bunch of vodka.
She was showing them her pussy.
At this point of the story, by the way, I was mad at him for not fucking her.
But then she started projectile vomiting because she overdid it, right?
And I've heard this story a few times, especially with threesims.
Girls get nervous and they overdrink.
And what did these disgusting frat boy jocks do?
They washed her sheets.
They put the towels in the fucking washing machine.
And they made sure she was okay and then they went home.
These beta male guys, like the kind of guys who are on the nerdist, these guys who everyone thinks is cool, I see those guys fucking her, skull fucking her, or beating off in front of them.
And Tom Shaloux said this to me once.
He goes, jerking off in front of a woman is obviously pretty rare, but it's not that rare in the comedy world.
joe rogan
Well, I do know a few comics who have done some inappropriate jerking off.
unidentified
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
They're mentally ill narcissists for the most part, and they wear this wolf and sheep's clothing of I'm a beta male, I'm a loser, I'm a nut, and they just use it to fuck chicks over and dump broads, and they're the jocks.
They're the date raping jocks that everyone's scared of.
joe rogan
Well, you're talking about like very specific guys that are famous and wealthy and also are playing that role of being the failure.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, I'm talking about young comedians too.
Like Jay Moore, there's two types of comedians.
There's Jay Moore with the dress shirt and the blazer.
That is that generation.
I don't know those guys.
They seem like pretty good guys.
Then there's the American apparel sweatshirt dudes, like the millennial up to maybe 35.
Those are the guys I'm talking about.
joe rogan
Okay, aren't you doing exactly the same thing as someone saying that black guys are great at science because one guy knows a guy who did something?
gavin mcinnes
I mean, you're a theory, first of all.
unidentified
This theory sucks.
gavin mcinnes
I'm basing it on a lot of guys.
joe rogan
What guys?
Well, you don't have to name names, but I don't know anybody who's doing what you're saying.
I don't know anybody who's skull fucking passed out girls other than Bill Cosby.
gavin mcinnes
Okay, how many young comedians do you know who date a girl at, say, 26, right?
joe rogan
A lot.
gavin mcinnes
Then they dump her at 29.
Her ovaries are dried up.
joe rogan
29?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't think they dry out that young.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, they do.
joe rogan
No, you can have kids.
gavin mcinnes
Here's your ovaries.
For the most part, right?
This is your brain on drugs.
At 30, the hourglass turns upside down, and the sand is draining from 30 to 35.
joe rogan
There's no sand in ovaries.
gavin mcinnes
At 35, you're fucked.
joe rogan
Does the pelican bring your babies as well?
gavin mcinnes
It's an analogy, Joe.
The fertility is draining from 30 to 35.
My wife had our first kid at 36 or something.
They go through a door that said geriatric mothers.
joe rogan
Oh, it's over.
gavin mcinnes
Well, there's anecdotal evidence.
joe rogan
They die young in Canada.
unidentified
No, no, I've lived in New York since I was 99.
gavin mcinnes
No, of course there's exceptions.
My mother had my brother at 41.
But generally, throughout...
We joke about his weak sperm, but I mean, we say he's bred with old ovaries, but I realize my youngest son was born much with a mom much older than my mom.
So we don't do that joke anymore.
But even with my youngest son, I was watching him like a hawk at the beginning, worried about autism.
So anyway, if you date a chick at 26 and you dump her at 30, it's going to take her a couple years to get over it, right?
To the point where she's ready to have kids.
joe rogan
What?
No.
unidentified
No.
gavin mcinnes
I mean, get over it, like, find a new guy and marry him and be ready for kids.
joe rogan
Who knows, man?
I know a girl who, well, whatever.
Anecdotal evidence.
Go ahead.
gavin mcinnes
If you kill a woman's ovaries like that, you are Hitler.
joe rogan
You're not killing everybody's ovaries.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, you are.
You've taken her best years ago.
There should be some stigma around that.
That's Hitler.
joe rogan
Because she would have had kids.
gavin mcinnes
Those kids would have had kids.
joe rogan
So if you dated yourself, getting to know her during a very specific time in her life.
gavin mcinnes
And she's at 130, you have killed a million people.
You have committed a war crime.
joe rogan
You're Hitler.
It's very hard to take your argument seriously.
You're a funny guy.
gavin mcinnes
Which part is bullshit?
joe rogan
All that.
You're Hitler.
You killed her ovaries.
All the above.
gavin mcinnes
You arguably have denied the world millions of people.
joe rogan
No, no, you haven't.
Because a woman can't give birth to millions of people.
That's fucking bad.
gavin mcinnes
No, but her grandkids can.
And those grandkids, grandkids.
joe rogan
Why did you sleep?
You could be out making seven billion.
gavin mcinnes
Look at Attila the Hun.
I think he's responsible for like 3 million people.
joe rogan
Oh, like physically?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
No.
gavin mcinnes
No, yes.
joe rogan
No, he didn't fuck 3 million girls.
gavin mcinnes
No, he fucked a bunch of girls.
He probably fucked.
joe rogan
You don't have a thousand chicks.
You don't have enough time to come.
gavin mcinnes
I'm talking about kids and grandkids and grandparents.
joe rogan
You're talking bullshit.
That's what you're doing.
gavin mcinnes
No, I'm not.
joe rogan
We're both talking bullshit.
gavin mcinnes
No, we're not.
joe rogan
Look up.
Come on.
I'm not going to be a bad person.
gavin mcinnes
Are you a nerd?
Look up how many children came from Attila the Hunt?
joe rogan
Quite a few, not as many as Genghis Khan.
Genghis Khan is responsible for some like one out of 500 dudes in Asia or some crazy number.
gavin mcinnes
Okay, so that's what I'm saying.
joe rogan
You're also murdered sexual.
gavin mcinnes
When you take up a woman's fertile years, you've done the opposite of a year.
joe rogan
But you're not taking up her years.
Her years are going on.
They're going on.
You happen to be a matter of time.
But she's now fertile after that.
That's happened.
gavin mcinnes
32 happens.
It's very hard to have kids.
joe rogan
She's around her during the time where she's 26 to 29.
It doesn't mean you're responsible for her any more than she's responsible for.
gavin mcinnes
You should be conscious.
Both she and you should be conscious of this is our prime time.
It's like football players.
joe rogan
I think women are.
That's why they get like super serious during those times.
gavin mcinnes
Amongst my sort of media hipster kind of entertainment people, that whole concept is gone.
And one generation ago, it was, you know, you got to get her while she's young and this is her big year and blah, blah, blah.
There was some value on those formative ovary years.
Today it's nothing.
And these women, they get dumped at 30, and then they...
joe rogan
A lot of them get dumped.
gavin mcinnes
Every woman I know in New York got dumped at 30.
joe rogan
Wow.
All right.
That's super anecdotal.
But I think a lot of my friends, when they talk about women, they talk if they date girls that are like up to 25, 26, they're more like they don't care.
They're having fun.
They're doing their thing with their career and they're doing their thing, going on dates and stuff.
But they always say that when they get to be around 30, 31, 32, they're like, where's this going?
gavin mcinnes
That's late.
joe rogan
Where's this heading?
gavin mcinnes
They should be saying that at 27 is all I'm saying.
joe rogan
In your world.
gavin mcinnes
No.
In a doctor's world.
joe rogan
The doctor's world.
gavin mcinnes
In a doctor.
I had some chick, a friend of mine, 39, her physician said, ooh, 35, getting kind of late.
And she said it to me like, can you believe that, sexist pig?
And I go, he's a nerd.
He has Asperger's.
He doesn't have, he's not sexist.
He's telling you about your fucking vagina.
joe rogan
Why is that a sexist pig to say you're dying?
Because today, if you're 35.
gavin mcinnes
That's what I'm trying to say.
Today, in 2015, to speak normal biological facts, I call them hate facts, is sexist.
It's sexist to say that it's hard to have kids after 30 and nearly impossible after 35.
joe rogan
Well, I don't know what this has to do with comedians that are fake beta males, skullflows.
gavin mcinnes
Because these comedians don't recognize that.
joe rogan
Well, they don't have to.
You're not responsible for that any more than they're responsible for recognizing that you're a 45-year-old guy who's going through some midlife crisis, some existential angst.
gavin mcinnes
This goes back to what I was saying about no one's responsible for the relationship.
And if you a lot of these guys will fuck over this girl and sort of imply that he's going to put a ring on it.
And then 29, 30.
I mean, New York has a very disproportionate number of people.
joe rogan
It's anecdotal, though.
You're saying a lot of these guys fuck over a girl.
Like, relationships don't work out.
A lot of times people pretend to be one thing when you first start dating them.
Like you were saying your wife was saying, you know, I might be a lesbian.
And then as you get deep in you, oh, that was just like a shiny little spinner and behind it was a hook.
You know, that's how you catch trout.
Too true.
So you can play it on both sides.
People are full of shit.
And they're full of shit to themselves.
People pretend to themselves that they are this one type of person because that person appears to be more attractive.
So when you're talking about these hipster guys that are pretending to be these beta males that are super sensitive and male feminists, in their mind, they have convinced themselves that they are this thing because this thing would be more attractive to the type of women they're trying to attract.
So they're just as confused.
gavin mcinnes
I agree.
joe rogan
They're not like this fucking mastermind.
gavin mcinnes
They're not a false self-centered.
joe rogan
But they're not this mastermind that's trying to engineer this false narrative.
That's just as bad.
gavin mcinnes
That's negligence.
joe rogan
They're just young.
They're living their life.
gavin mcinnes
They're trying to figure yourself out.
They're 35.
They're fucking a 26-year-old.
joe rogan
35 over 36.
gavin mcinnes
Then they dry up her ovaries and they dump her.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
gavin mcinnes
Look, I'm talking about too many different things at once here.
joe rogan
Okay, you're right.
gavin mcinnes
I want to establish.
joe rogan
And I'm not blaming you.
gavin mcinnes
I want to establish that women from 25 to 30 should start getting serious and they have a certain currency because they're ovaries.
Two.
unidentified
Or not.
gavin mcinnes
And there's a diagram here where they overlap.
joe rogan
What if they don't want kids?
gavin mcinnes
Fucking 95% of the population wants kids.
joe rogan
I don't know about that.
gavin mcinnes
The women who don't want kids.
joe rogan
A lot of girls who don't want kids.
gavin mcinnes
They are extinct.
We've been over a quarter of a million years.
They just develop this need to want kids.
Yeah, the kid is a substitute.
That dog is a substitute.
And they call themselves mommy.
joe rogan
But when you get on the 405 at 3 o'clock in the afternoon and you can't fucking move because there's no room because all the cars have blocked up all the road, you go, maybe we need more girls with little dogs.
Maybe we need more gay guys who want to get married.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
Well, maybe these people who aren't having kids is self-selection.
And, you know, we're not going to have annoying feminists.
My kid isn't going to have to deal with them.
joe rogan
Why is that?
Because they're going to die off?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, they're dying off right now.
joe rogan
I wonder.
gavin mcinnes
Jezebel won't be around in one generation.
joe rogan
A lot of those women have had kids.
They don't have kids?
gavin mcinnes
No one at Jezebel has kids.
Maybe one or two.
joe rogan
It's like fracking well.
gavin mcinnes
No, really.
And I actually know, I used to be friends with the chick at Jezebel, and she told me that.
joe rogan
That's not true.
Really?
unidentified
Yeah.
Who?
joe rogan
Which one?
gavin mcinnes
Tracy Egan.
Okay.
joe rogan
She's a writer?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, she's at ViceNail.
She told me that I'm spilling the beans here, but I don't care.
She told me that the managing editor, who looks kind of like Jimi Hendrix, but it's a woman, she would cry herself to sleep at night because she waited too long and her ovaries dried up.
And I feel like screaming at her, your whole agenda is telling women that they're men and they don't need kids and they'll be fine without kids.
And you don't even believe that fucking shit.
joe rogan
But is that their agenda?
Because I don't think it is.
I think their agenda is saying that women could be empowered and women can not have to live under the predetermined directives that men have set forth for them and they can do their own shit.
gavin mcinnes
That was the beginning of the impetus.
The pendulum is swinging so far and now it's if you do that, you're a sellout and a loser and you're a fucking stepford wife.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
So if you have a relationship and you have a family and you're not afraid of the- Modern feminism vilifies the Midwestern housewife.
Come.
gavin mcinnes
Our wives are losers according to Jezebel.
joe rogan
Really?
I've never heard that.
I've never seen that written down.
So you're celebrating.
gavin mcinnes
But you can tell when you read the articles, it's like, she's badass.
She's kick-ass.
joe rogan
Well, they're celebrating empowered women.
gavin mcinnes
They're celebrating.
Do you believe that?
joe rogan
I think in some ways that's what they want.
They want to celebrate empowered women.
gavin mcinnes
Kick-ass 2 is a movie that sums up modern feminism, and it is women are men.
Women kick ass.
Women are marines.
Like, modern feminism is, why aren't there more female superheroes?
I don't know, because it's not a feminine thing to fly to a bank robber and punch him in the face.
And I actually have a theory about this.
joe rogan
I've never heard anybody saying that they want more female superheroes.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, that's a big thing.
joe rogan
Is it?
Well, why don't, how come the women feminists, what?
The women feminists.
They're real feminists.
I mean, if there are real feminists, it's only women feminists.
Men feminists are just that they are.
gavin mcinnes
Feminism should be extinct.
You got it.
You got all the same rights.
We're done.
joe rogan
Humanists is really what we should all be.
I don't think they have the same rights.
You think they have exactly the same rights?
gavin mcinnes
What rights do they have?
What rights do men have that women don't have?
joe rogan
Well, it's not a matter of rights.
It's a matter of rights for sure.
Like as far as legal.
gavin mcinnes
Give me any metric.
And all men are worse off.
joe rogan
Rights as far as like, but as far as the way they're appreciated in cultures and society, certainly not worldwide.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, no, no, no.
No, I'm only talking about North America or the West.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
Fucking Middle East.
All feminists should move to the Middle East and get to work.
joe rogan
Why don't feminists embrace Ronda Rousey?
She seems like the ultimate feminist.
She's like a feminist from a movie.
gavin mcinnes
They don't embrace her?
joe rogan
No.
gavin mcinnes
Because that's my beef with feminism is that they're too Ronda Rousey.
joe rogan
Well, she's hot and she kicks ass.
Like she's not a hot.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, but that's not a good trait.
Like Tomb Raider, when I see Lara Kraft, I don't get a boner.
I get a boner when a woman is feminism.
Like Southern bells make me hard.
When some woman does a backflip and shoots a monster in the face, I go, oh, some dyke has short shorts on and knows how to do backflips.
And I think nerds like it because they want to see action and they want to see pretty girls.
So to save time, they make a Tomb Raider.
joe rogan
Right.
So it's like, what's that thing where you take a turkey and you cook a duck in it?
unidentified
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
Turducken.
gavin mcinnes
I was watching the movie Support Your Local Sheriff.
Do you know that movie?
joe rogan
No.
gavin mcinnes
Support Your Local Sheriff?
It's like, what's his name from James Cann?
No.
joe rogan
James Kahn?
gavin mcinnes
No.
Support your local sheriff.
unidentified
Okay.
gavin mcinnes
The guy who was in Hawaii 5-0 forever.
joe rogan
Oh, Jesus.
Who the fuck was it?
The guy nerd-oh.
gavin mcinnes
Nerd's not an insult.
joe rogan
Jeremy's not a nerd.
gavin mcinnes
He can't look up.
joe rogan
He's a nerd in the sense that I'm a nerd.
All right, what is this?
gavin mcinnes
So anyway, in the movie, there it is.
And who's the main guy?
What's his name again?
unidentified
Kirk Kennedy?
gavin mcinnes
No, James Garner.
joe rogan
James Carner.
gavin mcinnes
So anyway, in the movie, there's this scene where they're in a courtroom and they're having some trial and this woman comes out and she's got on like a, you know, that's Wild West dress and the fucking hair up and the little blouse.
It's quite attractive.
Anyway, she gets up in the court and she goes, here, you listen to me and you listen well, partner.
I've had enough of this and I want you.
And they go, order in the court.
Sit her down.
She goes, no, I will not sit down.
I demand that you listen to me.
And I'm watching it.
I just had this fucking epiphany wash over me.
I realized men invented this bitch.
Like, men invented Jezebel feminism, Lara Kraft, this whole thing, because she's not being feminine.
Like that movie was cast by a dude.
That movie was written by a dude.
They're making her get up there.
And I think the suffragette movement, the whole like women should vote, was guys going, why don't you fucking say that you should vote?
And the ladies go, What I was making a lasagna now, get up there.
Say, I need to vote, I'm a lady.
And they go, Okay, I'm a lady.
joe rogan
Well, you know, there is a biological reality for women who have to take care of themselves.
Women who work actually develop more testosterone.
Women who are in the workforce and have to compete, yeah, they actually develop more testosterone and they become more aggressive because of that testosterone.
And I think that when women are forced into that sort of a position, like is it is it a coincidence?
Not saying that all feminists are unattractive, but a lot of like really vocal ones are unattractive.
And so therefore they're forced to take care of themselves.
They're forced to be on their own.
So they're forced to compete in the workforce.
And you have to, in order to survive, you have to become more aggressive.
And so in becoming more aggressive and then in standing up for themselves and their own gender, they become like an antagonist or they become rather an opponent of the men that they're competing with.
gavin mcinnes
They don't belong there.
joe rogan
They don't belong in a workforce.
In the work environment?
Well, that's what it is.
For the most part, there's five exceptions.
gavin mcinnes
Say if you're a worker in Maggie Thatcher, you know, there's tons of alpha females who fucking rock.
Oprah.
She's great.
But my experience has been when the woman contributes to the workforce, I'm going to say 80% of the time it's just...
unidentified
And like...
joe rogan
Okay, I'll give it a rubbing the forehead and going.
gavin mcinnes
Let's ride this out until we can get back to creating stuff.
Like, for example, when I ran an ad agency, we were doing a commercial for Converse.
And the bit was this guy's standing over here.
And then this guy walks over and he says hi.
And then he leaves, and he's a hunk, and she's a girl.
And then later she talks to her friends and goes, oh my God, he talked to me, blah, blah, blah.
So, okay, got it.
We'll do that.
And then the woman goes, and then she comes up to her friends and she's like, did you believe what happened?
Her friends are like, I can't believe it.
And I go, wait a minute, these are people?
And she goes, yeah.
And I go, but I thought these were the people of this world.
And she goes, well, who cares?
It's just.
And then she also said that.
joe rogan
You're doing some weird things with your hands here for the people that are just listening to this.
You're walking your fingers along the table and I don't even know what the fuck you're doing.
And I'm in the room with you.
gavin mcinnes
I'm getting drunk, actually.
But I said to her, this is the world.
joe rogan
Okay, the people with the people with the fingers.
gavin mcinnes
You can't just flip it and make some people fingers and sometimes fingers are legs.
I didn't know this was going to be take it in audio-wise.
Let me give you a better example.
My brother.
joe rogan
90%.
gavin mcinnes
My brother designs video games.
And he said, when we do a thing with men, they'll go, okay, it's a squirrel.
He's on a skateboard, an app, right?
And he gets a bunch of nuts, and then you win a prize.
unidentified
Got it.
gavin mcinnes
And here, we made it.
Okay, looks good.
But he goes, well, if I do something like that for a female client, they'll go, we had a thought.
What about changing the color scheme from sort of autumn to more of a summary thing?
And he'll go, okay, well, that's not a button.
I'll have to go back and change all the code.
So it's essentially making a whole new video game from scratch.
Okay, fine.
And then he'll go, but we'll have to bill you the same amount again.
And then he goes, they kind of get indignant.
Like they go, well, fine.
Like, you're not going to question me.
What?
Because I'm a woman.
I'm going to have a problem with that.
And then they go, okay, so my brother will have to redo the video game in a different color.
Whereas men would go, oh, it's a whole other thing.
All right, fuck it.
joe rogan
Yeah, let's not do that.
Some men, right?
gavin mcinnes
Again, this is anecdotal.
I'm talking about my personal experience, but so much, like just the other day, this woman, I have a meeting on Wednesday, and this woman set it up, and I've talked to this other woman and this other woman.
I know this is sexist, but I go, well, I have a thing at two.
And she goes, okay, I'll just move it.
And I go, no, no, no, no.
This is an important meeting.
I don't want these women to think I'm a flake, so don't change it.
That makes me look like I'm hard to work with.
And she goes, oh, okay.
I was going to move it around.
I go, this meeting is huge.
Don't be fucking with the times.
And I'm just like, why am I dealing with these chicks when I could be dealing with a dude who would just go, okay, well, the meeting's only going to be an hour, so I think you'll make it fine.
Okay, handshake.
joe rogan
Well, don't you think there's some women that can handle that?
It sounds like it's an incompetent person.
You could run into incompetent dude, too.
gavin mcinnes
Speaking generally, about millions.
Women are good at micromanagement.
They're good at line producing, for example.
They're great at that.
As far as big decisions and handshake deals, men tend to be much better at it.
And my entire career has been almost exclusively women.
joe rogan
Why is that?
gavin mcinnes
Because I'm selling shit.
So when I ran the magazine, the marketing people, marketing people tend to be women.
The ones buying the ads, they're women.
Advertising, the ones who aren't bequeathing the budgets, the ones who come to the set, women, women, women.
joe rogan
Bequeath is a great word.
I don't know how we got from beta comedian, skull fucking passed out girls to this, but I'm trying.
gavin mcinnes
Women and men are different.
That's the big picture.
joe rogan
And feminism is something that's created by men as a false narrative.
Women have bought it hook, line, and sinker, where they really should be at home protecting those very, very valuable three years from 26 to 29 before their ovaries turn to sand or something like that.
gavin mcinnes
It's funny that you're being sarcastic because I'm listening to you going, yes.
Well done.
That is exactly what I'm saying.
joe rogan
And I'm still trying to figure out what went wrong with you and Mark Maron that you became transphobic.
Were you transphobic after the interview?
gavin mcinnes
No, I wrote an article called Transphobia is Perfectly Natural, and it's a shit hit the fan.
joe rogan
I read that and I also saw the video that you put up about these people regretting their transition.
Right.
There's definitely, there can be that, right?
gavin mcinnes
That goes back to what we were saying about gay marriage.
On the surface, it's just leave them be.
They want to get married.
And I go, no, actually, people are getting fined for not having gay marriage in their living room.
So it's not as simple as just leave them be.
You're actually antagonizing Christians.
joe rogan
Yeah, but no, no, no.
That's just one.
You were talking about the outliers.
gavin mcinnes
The ones that you're going to be able to do is you have to bake the wedding cake.
joe rogan
You know that whole story about the pizza and the wedding cake.
They sought out someone who would say no.
Everything was fake.
gavin mcinnes
Right.
That's my whole beef.
But that was fake.
That was a story.
joe rogan
But they were trying to create a story.
gavin mcinnes
We want the right to go camping.
And you go, okay, but I've never seen you camp before, but they don't not have the right to go camping.
unidentified
No, but you're like, camp, blacks, camping, rights, camp.
joe rogan
And you go, okay, no one's suing black people for camping.
Like, this is a non-black camping ground.
gavin mcinnes
Right, but if I heard about a campground getting sued, oh, wait a minute.
joe rogan
Okay, but if a campground did kick black people out, it would be fucking fucked up.
gavin mcinnes
My point is with gay marriages, they don't really want to get married.
joe rogan
But they do.
I have a gay couple who lives down the street from me.
They're good friends of mine.
gavin mcinnes
The thing with trans.
joe rogan
You didn't have a kid.
gavin mcinnes
With the trans was when you normalize it and say it's perfectly healthy, right?
Then your eight-year-old son, who's gay, by the way, says, I'm a woman.
You go, we're going to just ride this out.
And when you become 18, you're going to move to the West Village and wear red leather short shorts and suck a bunch of dicks and realize, oh, I'm a fag.
I'm not a woman.
But now that we've normalized trans, what these moms are doing, because they love having a trans kid, it's like a status symbol now.
What?
joe rogan
Moms love having a trans kid?
Yeah.
You want to talk about outliers?
Like, that's the real outlier, not even the people getting sued for marriage.
The moms are a super trans.
gavin mcinnes
It's a status symbol now, yeah.
joe rogan
What?
Where are you hanging out?
gavin mcinnes
Look it up.
Anyway, so these trans moms are giving their kids hormones, right, to delay puberty.
joe rogan
I did see a video of a really young kid that was getting their first hormone dose.
gavin mcinnes
Yes.
joe rogan
And I was like, wow.
gavin mcinnes
Now that kid was getting into fucking because he's a chick, but what I'm talking about is slightly different.
They're giving them hormone blockers so puberty won't be disturbing.
So you won't have pubes and your dick won't get bigger or whatever happens.
Yeah, so kids are getting hormone blockers because we've accepted this as fact that trans is normal.
And then we're also normalizing the operation and their suicide rate is brutal.
Now, I'm not denying there are a few dudes who are happier with a cunt, like Zoe Tur.
I've talked to him a few times.
He's got a cunt.
He used to be a helicopter news guy.
He's the guy who saw OJ and the Bronco.
He shot that.
And she created a vagina, and she seems to be happier about it.
But she's pretty conservative and doesn't think that operation should be normalized because it's fucking weird.
joe rogan
You know what's adorable is that Caitlin Jenner doesn't believe in gay marriage.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
Well, that's common with trans.
They tend to be conservative.
Really?
Because I think they have this vent of women that is very traditional.
Like Caitlin Jenner didn't turn into a bulldyke and didn't wear a sweatshirt with a nose ring.
She turned into like a 1950s lady.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
So she has this very traditional woman.
joe rogan
With a very rigid back.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like it doesn't move very well.
Not very pliable.
gavin mcinnes
Cut your cock off, by the way, Bruce.
joe rogan
No, he's going to keep it.
gavin mcinnes
Well, then he's a poser.
joe rogan
He is a poser.
But doesn't Bailey J still have his dick?
Her dick?
Can you say her dick?
How can you say her dick?
gavin mcinnes
See, that's the problem with this mess.
They come with these new terms.
Hi, Bailey.
joe rogan
It is a mess.
gavin mcinnes
Bailey won't speak to me anymore because I call him he.
joe rogan
Really?
gavin mcinnes
And I'm like, so you're a woman?
And he goes, well, I'm not a woman, but I'm not a he.
I'm like, fuck it.
joe rogan
Oh, wow.
gavin mcinnes
Did I take a night course to talk to you fucking people?
joe rogan
Have you seen Harvard's new rules?
Yes.
Z and thigh and Z?
unidentified
What the fuck?
joe rogan
New person.
gavin mcinnes
I'm telling you a story, and I'm like, so Z walks into the bar, slams the dude's face, and you're like, was it a chick or a dude?
Like, I want to know the race.
I want to know how tall.
joe rogan
And here, right?
H-E-R-H-E-E-R, right?
Isn't that one of them?
There's like a bunch of them.
X-E.
There's like, they're just making shit up.
gavin mcinnes
See, this is the key to political correctness.
It's not about justice.
It's about me telling you how to speak.
It's about the upper classes telling the lower classes, oh, you don't say black anymore.
You say person of color.
joe rogan
It's also about calling people out.
It's calling people out on their transgressions, calling people out on using the wrong gender pronoun, calling people out on being insensitive.
It's like looking for green lights so they could say that you're wrong.
It's looking for the moral high ground.
That's a real issue with it because it's a game.
It's a social brownie point collecting game.
Like you want to be the most progressive person and you want to be the person that is the most aggressive about calling out other people.
It used to be the progressive just like open-minded.
Progressive was like about being like sensitive and loving and trying to be accepting of all people.
Now it's become about finding people who aren't progressive and calling them out and outing them and shitting on their life.
I think it's people that just get a green light to be a cunt.
And one of the cunts, yeah, the best green light is finding people that you think have violated someone else's civil liberties or civil rights or, you know, sensitivities, and you just aggressively go after them.
Fascinating.
gavin mcinnes
Look at how they act when an old person like a Warvet says Negro.
They have this sort of giggling like, Negro, that's so old.
That's like four names ago.
They're not up to date with the names we've been telling them.
And they go Negro, then it's black, then it's African American, now it's person of color.
joe rogan
How do you have United Negro College Fund still?
How do you have NAACP still?
How do you have Re Russia Association for?
gavin mcinnes
They go, like I was on Fox once and this woman said that Hillary said colored person.
And what Hillary actually said was person of color.
And she was mortified in the green room going, oh my God, I said colored person.
I meant to say that Hillary said person of color.
joe rogan
Well, that's what I'm saying.
gavin mcinnes
I'm like, why don't you apologize to him right now?
There's some black guy, sound guy over there.
I'm like, go apologize to him.
Maybe he'll forgive you.
joe rogan
Well, isn't it hilarious, though?
Think about what you just said.
I mean, if you didn't know this language and if you didn't know human beings, how ridiculous is it that it's okay to say a person of color, but it is not okay to say a colored person?
That is the same thing that this is all bullshit.
And I agree with you.
gavin mcinnes
Then, like at my boxing gym, all the black dudes and the Puerto Ricans and the Hispanics are really good.
They're riffing.
unidentified
They're all riffing.
joe rogan
People get brain damage.
gavin mcinnes
They're all riffing on each other's ethnicity.
Like, well, yeah, you're Puerto Rican.
What would you know?
You fucking go back on welfare.
It's a fun way to riff.
And it was the way it was a generation ago with the Archie Bunkers on the dock.
Look at this fucking Polack.
And I believe that we were closer when we could make jokes like that and relax and be like, oh, it was on island time.
Look at the black guy.
And That's what I love about New York.
joe rogan
I disagree.
I disagree about that because I don't think we're not, I think we are closer now than we've ever been before.
But I think these issues that we're dealing with, these are like transitionary issues.
And I think that as people become more and more aware of each other, those will start to erode and be outed as being preposterous.
And I think these kind of conversations where we're mocking this, like national, like the colored people or a person of color, these conversations are important.
And I think ultimately people will come to their senses or at least come to their senses.
gavin mcinnes
No, but I disagree that I think like I'm scared of women at work.
joe rogan
You're scared of women, period.
gavin mcinnes
I don't riff at work.
joe rogan
They turn to sand.
They hate sick.
unidentified
The sand was an analogy to describe ovaries being fucking with you the way you fuck with people and you can't take it.
joe rogan
How do you think?
gavin mcinnes
I want to be clear.
joe rogan
I understand.
I've got it the whole way.
gavin mcinnes
Black women at work.
Okay, we had some black women at work and I was scared of them because I thought this could be a large woman.
joe rogan
It's a uniwoman.
It's a double whammy.
unidentified
Yes.
gavin mcinnes
And the black women, right, at work, they don't like that they're a pariah.
You know, you're in the lunchroom riffing and going, look, Fag, you like hot dogs because they're cocks.
And then a black woman walks in and they go, hi, Shaniqua, how are you?
And everyone is walking on black woman eggshells, and that's not fun.
And I don't think the black women like it either.
So everyone was having fun until I walked into the lunchroom.
joe rogan
It's hard for me to get into this because the black women that I know are all black comedians.
Right.
Black women comedians, or the black women that I know from work, rather, I should say.
That's so, they're fun.
So it's like Tiffany Harris.
gavin mcinnes
Well, when I say we were better off when you could riff, I'm talking about Middle America.
I'm talking about Archie Bunker.
I'm talking about cubicles and the lunchroom and the water cooler.
And I believe that all this political correctness has just made white people say, I'm getting away from them.
They're not worth the trouble.
They could ruin my career if I say the wrong joke.
joe rogan
Well, that is a real issue.
I mean, if you're dealing with super, super fucking sensitive people and you have them in the workforce, if you have a company.
Sorry for doing that over and over again.
Who was that woman that sued a famous tech woman who sued some company and they said she was really hard to work with and she lost.
She lost a lawsuit because she said it was about sexual discrimination.
gavin mcinnes
All women?
joe rogan
No, but every company.
She's a famous woman.
She went on to work for Google or Reddit, rather.
She went on to work for Reddit.
gavin mcinnes
Or the Asian woman?
unidentified
Yes.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
unidentified
Didn't she own Reddit or something?
joe rogan
She didn't run Reddit, but she was one of the CEOs of Reddit.
Right, right, right.
I guess that is run Reddit, right?
But she sued for Ellen Powell.
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
That's her name?
gavin mcinnes
I think she's a black husband.
joe rogan
Okay, good for her.
gavin mcinnes
And they're wanted for all kinds of fraud.
I think she learned the hustle from the black husband, and he said, oh, just bitch about race.
And it's tons of.
joe rogan
I don't think she was bitching about race.
I think she was bitching about sexual discrimination.
But, you know, they were trying to say that she's not a good person.
She was not a good person.
And that was like the whole argument behind having someone like that is inherently dangerous.
Like if you have, not her in specific, but having someone who's like looking for those green lights.
Like we were talking about like with progressive people, looking to find something, some made-up transgression that they can call you out on.
gavin mcinnes
A lot of the time, sorry if I'm interrupting you, but a lot of the time these women in the workforce subliminally recognize they shouldn't be there and they need to generate income.
So they come up with some sort of grievance and it's the grievance industry.
And I was watching TV in the hotel with my wife this morning.
We don't get to watch TV because we have kids and I don't like the TV being on at home.
So I'm just fucking binging on reality shows and hot rod shows and everything.
And she got bored and went to see her friends.
And I thought, the reason she's bored with all this reality show, like I was watching food factories.
When I watch food factories and they're showing how you make jam, I can imagine, oh, I see what they did there.
And I can imagine driving the truck that harvests the berries.
And I can imagine inventing the machine.
And I can see the screen.
Oh, the screen's probably the best way to get out all the twigs and shit.
And I'm watching like, my guys do my shit.
And I see that when I look at a building, I'm like, oh, you had I-beams there, and you built a strong foundation, obviously.
It's 80 floors high.
And I think women don't see the world the way we do.
And it's the same with kids.
Like, I'll take my kids to the park, and I'm playing with them, and I'm chasing my son around, and as a monster.
But a lot of the times after maybe 20 minutes in, I go, this is getting fucking tedious.
I'm sick of being a monster.
But my wife has unlimited patience when it comes to being with the kids.
So generally, overall, I'm not, obviously there's exceptions, but I think men are better at creating societies and women are better at nurturing.
And I just keep seeing these stereotypes of people.
joe rogan
So what about these angry women, you know, angry feminists?
You don't want them raising kids, right?
You don't want fucked up kids being raised by these angry women.
gavin mcinnes
Yes, you're talking about a handful of cunts, but what's happening is these women like my wife, instead of meeting me and having three kids, they're going, I guess I should be in the workforce because men are women and women are men.
So she goes into the workforce.
She comes up with some stupid converse idea and everyone is just sitting pinching the bridge of their nose going, yeah, that's not going to work.
We can't use Rolling Stones music in a commercial.
It'd be like $3 million.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
So what are you saying?
That women should totally rely on men?
gavin mcinnes
That's another thing.
Relying on men, look, you fucking made three human beings come out of your consciousness.
joe rogan
But what if they didn't?
What if they didn't?
They have to find a man in order to get by?
gavin mcinnes
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Well, first of all, I would never say women aren't allowed in the workforce.
I'm talking about this huge contingent of women who have forced themselves into the workforce and don't like it.
And especially even moms with kids.
I keep seeing my friends who have working moms getting messages, texts.
I've even seen emails where they go, I'm fucking miserable.
I hate it.
Like Nina Simone.
I saw this Nina Simone documentary, and they talked about how late, well, the implication was she was lazy, but how miserable she was with her career.
And I'm watching, going, no, she's depressed because she's on tour in Europe and she's not with her fucking kids.
It's unnatural.
joe rogan
Well, in that sense, yeah, if you do have children and you're not with them and you're touring somewhere, especially if you're a woman, that should be really depressing.
It's depressing for men too, though.
It's depressing for me if I go on the road for a weekend and I don't have my kids.
I get bummed out.
unidentified
First two days are pretty good.
gavin mcinnes
Third day you start missing them.
Fourth day sucks.
With women, it's like my wife, we've been gone for 24 hours.
My wife won't let me say things my son says because it'll remind her.
joe rogan
It's like a tap of water.
gavin mcinnes
Like he says, put down me.
If I said put down me right now to her, she'd be mad.
joe rogan
Right.
I understand what you're saying.
I don't.
It's real hard when you get into these generalizations like this because women, if they don't enter the workforce, then what do they do?
They wait around for some guy to pay the bills.
And the problem with the idea of saying that working moms, I agree that a lot of women wish they didn't have to work so they could take care of their kids, but then they're looked in disparaging ways by, and talked about disparaging ways by men who are like, well, you don't even contribute to the household.
gavin mcinnes
Well, those guys are fucking assholes and fuck them.
And I don't understand this whole, I need to work.
I can't afford it.
When I was a kid, we were middle class.
And if you had that, my childhood today, you would be below the poverty line.
Like we had one car.
My mom would get the groceries on Wednesday after my dad got home.
We didn't go on vacation much.
We didn't have babysitters.
I didn't have a car.
And it was a perfectly happy life.
But there's this, I need to get in the workforce.
You need to get in the workforce to pay for the nanny.
You bought yourself into a higher tax bracket.
You need a car to commute from work.
I think it's a zero-sum game.
You probably bring seven grand a year to the family.
joe rogan
But where you live in Williamsburg, isn't that like super expensive?
gavin mcinnes
It's fucking insane.
joe rogan
Like, how much does an apartment cost?
gavin mcinnes
In the past few months, I ran the numbers, I've been spending $780 a day.
We blew $50,000 since March.
joe rogan
On what?
gavin mcinnes
There's no culprit.
Like, booze?
I'm an alcoholic.
That's $40 a day.
The babysitters and Andy.
$40 a day?
Yeah.
joe rogan
Definitely.
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
How many days did you try to take off?
gavin mcinnes
I quit booze for Lent.
I didn't have drinks on Thursday.
joe rogan
Are you Catholic?
gavin mcinnes
I just became Catholic.
I would grow up an atheist.
joe rogan
How old are you?
gavin mcinnes
45.
joe rogan
What the fuck's wrong with you?
Why are you becoming Catholic now?
gavin mcinnes
I had kids.
I realized that there's something else going on.
That's why I want everyone to have a lot of people who have to do it.
joe rogan
There's something else going on.
What?
A cult of child kid fuckers?
What's going on?
I was raised Catholic.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah, I abandoned that shit when I was a kid.
gavin mcinnes
Those child fuckers are called gays.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're called priests, too.
And they're running the Catholic Church, by the way.
gavin mcinnes
Okay.
joe rogan
You know about that, right?
gavin mcinnes
That kid fuckers run the Catholic Church?
joe rogan
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
I think there is a problem in the Catholic Church with pedophilia.
And it comes from gays.
joe rogan
A giant problem.
gavin mcinnes
Right.
joe rogan
A massive problem.
It literally is a cult of kid fuckers.
If NASCAR had as many drivers, fucking kids, it would have been closed down in the 60s.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
Well, the whole Middle East should be shut down.
joe rogan
Yeah, but you're joining in on this.
Why are you joining in?
Why are you giving them money?
When they pass the tray around, do you throw 20 bucks in there thinking, I hope this goes to kid fuckers?
gavin mcinnes
No.
But to be totally frank, I realized that there is a God, and Catholicism was the nearest thing to grab.
I mean, I could have been aiming.
joe rogan
There is a God.
How did you realize this?
gavin mcinnes
Well, first of all, I think that religion should be a little more private.
Like, my wife, I don't know what her religion is.
joe rogan
Well, it's very convenient when people want to talk about religion and say religion should be private because then they don't have to defend ridiculous ideas.
Because religion is a ridiculous idea.
gavin mcinnes
I'll bite.
I'll bite.
joe rogan
Ancient, ridiculous idea that makes no sense to me.
gavin mcinnes
No one ever, like my wife's American Indian, right?
No one ever.
joe rogan
It's a lot of Americans, sir.
You mean indigenous.
gavin mcinnes
She's an Indian.
Feather not die.
And I don't know what her fucking religion is.
She never talks about it.
If someone dies, they do fucking shrooms and sit in a teepee for three days.
joe rogan
That's my kind of religion.
gavin mcinnes
She doesn't talk about it.
And no one ever criticizes it.
Like, with Indians, you can't go in a teepee if you're menstruating, right?
No one ever talks about that.
joe rogan
It's because they don't want the bears to come in and kill everybody else.
gavin mcinnes
They don't have to justify their spirituality.
But for some reason, Christianity is like on the chopping block every day.
What about this on page three?
I don't understand it.
Why do we have to defend it?
joe rogan
Because there's a book.
You just said it yourself.
You don't know what they believe in.
gavin mcinnes
The Torah doesn't get this kind of interrogation.
The Quran doesn't get this kind of interrogation.
joe rogan
The Torah is not filled with things that you would say are magic.
What is magic in the Torah?
What's magic?
gavin mcinnes
Torah is just the Jew Bible.
joe rogan
But they don't believe that Jesus walked on water or came back from the dead or healed sick.
gavin mcinnes
I'm not that well versed with the Torah, but I assume as a religious tract, it's full of whimsical, superhero-y-sounding stuff.
joe rogan
Well, you have to be able to defend that.
gavin mcinnes
Isn't Moses in the Torah?
That was magic.
He split the sea.
joe rogan
Well, I don't know if the parting of the sea was in the Torah.
Is it?
Yes, it's the first five books.
Yeah, well, the thing about Moses.
You know, it's fascinating because it kind of brings it all full circle.
Mainstream Jerusalem scholars now believe that Moses was on drugs.
They believe that Moses was taking psychedelic drugs, and that's what the whole burning bush was.
The burning bush represents the acacia bush, which is a very common plant in that area, and it's rich with DMT.
So they think that the burning bush was them smoking DMT.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Which is the most potent psychedelic drug known to man.
And it also gives you all of these experiences where you feel like you're in contact with some sort of a higher power.
So they think that that's what was going on.
gavin mcinnes
My use of hallucinics also helped get me here in my teenage years.
joe rogan
But why did you join the Catholic Church?
gavin mcinnes
It was the nearest one.
I liked the Knights of Columbus.
I joined the Knights of Columbus.
I'm a third-degree knight.
But what made me really believe in a deity, and I don't know why I'm telling this, but I was coming home once and my kid was in her crib, my first kid, and I was looking at her heel and, you know, a little baby's heel.
And I'm like, that thing fucking works.
There's a bone there.
There's the tissue.
It's got padded tissue below the bone.
And I'd always suspected there was a God deep down.
And then I just, it sort of washed over me and I went, Oh, I get it now.
The Big Bang was some sort of omnipotent force that created the first domino, and that domino fell, and everything followed after that.
So the Dodo Bird, it's not like God went and killed the Dodo Bird.
He set up this almost like that movie where the dude drinks the drink and turns into sand and goes into the waterfall.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fuck, the prequel to Alien.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
What the hell is that?
gavin mcinnes
Prometheus.
Almost like the beginning of Prometheus.
That massive, incredibly complex domino was set off, boom, with the big bang, and that made my daughters heal.
joe rogan
Wow, that's convenient thinking.
It seems like a guy who calls out bullshit all the time, but then just buys into that.
It's not about evolution.
It's not about random mutations.
gavin mcinnes
Evolution is God.
joe rogan
Successful.
gavin mcinnes
Evolution is God.
joe rogan
Well, when you say God, though, do you mean like a guy who created everything like a specific individual?
gavin mcinnes
That's our shitty little teeny brains trying to wrap our minds around this incredible thing.
Here, I'll prove to you.
God exists.
joe rogan
Don't you think that Catholicism represents our shitty little brains that create these ridiculous things?
gavin mcinnes
Our pathetic attempt to grasp the infinite.
joe rogan
Right, but why join into that?
Like, why become a part of it?
gavin mcinnes
Because I'm in awe of life.
Like, if I go to Latin Mass and I'm in this unbelievable church, I don't understand what they're saying.
They're speaking Latin.
And that's kind of it's just recognizing the miracle that is birth, and I'm just so thankful that I'm here and the infinitesimally small odds that I was created.
And I'm just sort of saying, wow, thanks.
joe rogan
Do you do the same thing with science?
Do you go to like the Hayden Planetarium and do the same thing when you study constellations?
unidentified
Sure.
joe rogan
I do.
gavin mcinnes
You think I think the Earth is flat?
joe rogan
No, I don't.
gavin mcinnes
Catholicism is also pretty pro-science.
joe rogan
What?
gavin mcinnes
Catholicism is Galileo.
joe rogan
What the fuck are you talking about?
gavin mcinnes
All Galileo...
They never really denied that the universe revolves on the sun.
joe rogan
This is not true at all.
They fucking put him under house arrest because he was insisting that the earth was not the center of the universe.
gavin mcinnes
Right, but he wouldn't shut up about it.
And they eventually said that.
joe rogan
Because he was right.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
He was right.
gavin mcinnes
You want to defend the Catholic Church in fucking 1502.
joe rogan
Well, don't even defend them today.
How about Ratzinger?
How about the fact that they own the fucking biggest gay bath?
They own a building that houses the biggest gay bathhouse in Europe.
gavin mcinnes
So you would be okay if I was a member of a different Christian religion?
joe rogan
I think all religions are ridiculous.
I think ideologies are ridiculous.
gavin mcinnes
You're against deity.
joe rogan
I am against predetermined patterns of behavior that you subscribe to that are thousands of years old, that were written by people who were extremely ignorant to the facts that we know now as to how the universe was formed and how biological life has evolved and all of the work that science has done.
That doesn't mean I don't believe in God.
It doesn't mean I don't believe in the possibility of there being some grand order to this.
But the idea that the Catholic Church, the guy who dressed like a wizard and sits on a fucking golden throne and you have to call him father, that that's the guy?
That this is the thing?
gavin mcinnes
That's us trying to represent it.
joe rogan
That's us trying to...
I mean, this is really, really ancient shit that didn't make any sense back then.
And it's all they had.
But now that we do have science, and we do have so much more knowledge than the people who were writing this shit down in Qumran and fucking animal skins and leaving them in clay pots for people to go over and decipher.
It's ridiculous to know it's not.
gavin mcinnes
We were talking about that enforcer who did a double homicide.
And you said, the enforcer at the beginning of the show who did a double homicide.
And you said, we've learned over time, it's been a pattern here with murder.
We don't like it.
The Bible was an amalgamation of all these stories where we went, here's some things we've learned.
Killing people sucks.
Don't do that.
And it's lasted for 3,000 years.
That's longer than catching.
joe rogan
Don't wear two different types of cloth.
That's really bad.
gavin mcinnes
Yes, it's not perfect.
There is some weird shit in there.
joe rogan
There's a lot of weird shit in there.
Guys come back from the dead and they heal.
gavin mcinnes
Okay.
Do you believe that a good definition of infinity is if you had monkeys on a typewriter forever, they would eventually print out the completed works of Shakespeare?
joe rogan
I think that that definition of infinity is a very strange one.
Because the idea that you would have these monkeys randomly typing on a typewriter and they would come up with the exact...
There's no evidence that it's possible that a monkey just slamming their fingers onto a keyboard would type out words in perfect grammar with periods and commas and question marks.
Could it possibly be possible?
gavin mcinnes
How about a computer that is just randomly hitting, randomly printing out keys or infinity?
Would it not eventually, in a trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion years, happen to have printed out the complete works of Shakespeare?
joe rogan
It could be possible, but I've seen no evidence that it's ever been able to be replicated even in a simple sentence.
gavin mcinnes
There's never some evidence.
joe rogan
It's infinity.
But we're talking about something that's never been replicated even on the tiniest scale.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, it has been replicated on the tiniest scale.
It's called hacking.
You keep trying the password, and eventually the computer, after 3,000 tries, cracks your password.
joe rogan
Yeah, but they work on complicated algorithms that were created by people.
But it's not random.
They're testing it.
Like when you were talking about a monkey typing on a keyboard, the monkey doesn't understand language.
So monkeys using semicolons in the proper form, using like three periods in a row and then a space, but doing it over and over again to form the complete works of Shakespeare.
Like, I guess I get it.
I guess I get it.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
But I don't buy it.
gavin mcinnes
Let's start with that.
So you get it.
So we are next to an infinite universe.
That's monkeys on a typewriter.
That means at some point, there's got to be an Earth or a planet like Earth.
Right?
joe rogan
More than that, even.
gavin mcinnes
Okay, good.
joe rogan
Right?
gavin mcinnes
Then you go, wait a minute, if I'm doing infinite possibilities here, there's going to be an Earth where this is happening.
Joe Rogan.
joe rogan
Not only that, what infinite means is the universe is so big that every single thing that has ever happened on Earth in the exact same order has happened an infinite number of times throughout the cosmos.
That's because you're talking about infinity, but you're talking about something that literally has no boundaries.
So if there is one, the possibility of there being an infinite number of those things exists.
gavin mcinnes
You sound like a nice to me.
My next step was going to be there's Joe Rogan interviewing a guy who looks exactly like Joe Rogan, but my name is Gavin McInnes, but I'm looking like you.
That's happening.
And then you go, wait a minute, why does it have to be 2015 in October?
Maybe it's 1936, and you're talking to me on an old timey bullhorn.
joe rogan
Right.
So why?
gavin mcinnes
And then you go, wait a minute.
That is mathematically true.
I know for a fact, mathematically, that Joe Rogan is interviewing me with an old timey bullhorn in 1936 Earth.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
Way the fuck out there.
And I look exactly like you.
I know that to be mathematically true.
And you have three cocks, two equals four, and I have three cocks.
But I also know that that isn't true.
I know that that's not happening.
joe rogan
Well, you don't know that.
gavin mcinnes
Joe Rogan's not interviewing me in 1936.
joe rogan
How can you say that?
gavin mcinnes
The fact that those two things are simultaneously true, one and the other, is proof there's a God.
joe rogan
Wait, what do you mean?
I don't understand what you just said.
Don't shake your head like that, you fuck.
You didn't say a goddamn thing.
How do you say you know that it's not true?
gavin mcinnes
Two and two is four, and I know deep down two and two is not for.
I know, and you know.
joe rogan
You sound like a religious person right now.
gavin mcinnes
There is no.
joe rogan
I'll give you that.
You sound like a guy who should go to church.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, you sound crazier.
unidentified
You're saying there's a planet where it's 1936 Earth.
gavin mcinnes
You're interviewing me on a bullhorn.
joe rogan
No.
gavin mcinnes
And I look like you.
joe rogan
I'm saying all possibilities in an infinite universe could possibly be happening right now.
All possibilities.
Meaning if Earth exists and if we do have cloth in the form of curtains and cameras that work with L C D crystals and a little tiny statue of Biggie Small, that that's possible everywhere.
If it exists here and the universe is infinite, it means you're dealing with hundreds of billions of galaxies with hundreds of billions of stars.
gavin mcinnes
It is happening.
If I flip a coin, if I flip a coin 10 times, it's probably going to be a pretty even distribution of heads and tails.
If I flip a coin for three months, there's going to be one of those crazy on Thursday, there's a time I had heads 60 times in a row.
joe rogan
Maybe.
gavin mcinnes
Now, when you go to the infinite universe, every possibility has to have happened.
Right, but yes, we know it didn't happen.
joe rogan
We don't know it didn't happen.
How can you say that?
gavin mcinnes
There's no Joe Rogan Gavin.
There's very little Joe Rogan Gavin.
joe rogan
Stop, that's nonsense.
We have very little evidence about other planets at all.
The evidence that we have, we've collected all this data about planets.
We're looking at the gases that they admit in their atmosphere.
We're looking at the wobble that the stars around them have.
We could see that there's something that's circling the stars, so we know that the light changes.
We don't have a view into those planets.
We have a view into the planets in our solar system in a very limited way.
I mean, we're just now getting to Pluto.
We're learning how fucking weird Pluto is.
We haven't gone at all into the Kuiper belt.
We don't know anything about the galactic shelf outside of our solar system.
There's all sorts of shit out there.
They think there might be a brown dwarf star that we can't even see that's way, way, way outside of Pluto.
We're trying to figure out why there's certain things out there, why the Kuiper belt is filled with all these objects, why there's a drop-off, what massive body there might be deep into our solar system.
And then you go into other solar systems and other galaxies.
unidentified
It's a fucking, they've barely scratched the surface.
joe rogan
For you to say that you know there's not a Gavin out there who looks like me with three dicks sitting in front of a 1930s microphone, it absolutely could be true.
And it could be true, it could be billions of light years away where we'll never be able to see it.
gavin mcinnes
Not only that, that's a great argument against atheism.
You're sitting there saying there's no God.
That's just as crazy.
At the very least, I've reduced you to as crazy as me.
joe rogan
It's nothing, nothing has to do with religion there.
Nothing.
Nothing has to do with God there.
Nothing.
gavin mcinnes
It's a magical omnipotent force.
joe rogan
Or science.
Or the fact.
gavin mcinnes
Or science.
What's the scientific explanation for the Big Bang?
What started all this mess?
joe rogan
No one knows that.
That's a good one.
It's a big miracle.
gavin mcinnes
What did the Bible say?
There shall be light.
joe rogan
Well, Terrence McKenna said, if science grants, they ask for one miracle.
They say, grant us one miracle and we'll explain the rest of the universe.
But that's just because it's a lack of information.
They don't know whether or not the Big Bang is even true.
There's a lot of scientists that believe that it could be possible that the universe exists in a constant state of expansion and compression, the same way the tides work, the same way there's cycles of breathing in and breathing out, that the universe will expand into some infinite direction, then come back into some infinitely small place.
gavin mcinnes
This is why I believe in God.
joe rogan
That's why you believe in a cult of child fuckers that give you bread that's supposed to be the flesh of God.
Drink my blood.
Here it's wine.
gavin mcinnes
Religion is a sad human attempt to act out what you just described.
joe rogan
Religion is a sad human attempt to act out what you described.
Is that what you're saying?
gavin mcinnes
No, the traditions are a...
joe rogan
A human attempt.
gavin mcinnes
A meager, a humble attempt to grasp what you were just talking about.
joe rogan
I think it's rigid ideology.
I think it's rigid ideology.
They try to control behavior and they want your mind.
gavin mcinnes
Maybe people shouldn't go to church until they're 30.
Because when I go there, I just see all these nice old ladies saying, God bless you.
joe rogan
Well, that's right.
gavin mcinnes
And I look in a big building, like Jason Jones.
You know Jason Jones from The Daily Show?
joe rogan
No.
gavin mcinnes
Samantha B's husband?
I don't know her either.
Okay, so he was saying, I wish there was a religion I could join that wasn't religious.
And I think Bob Odenkirk's kids go to a fucking Jewish school where the rabbis are atheists.
So that thing exists.
But after we agreed on that, that that would be a cool thing, because that was back when I was an atheist, I go, Jason, I went to this thing.
It's called church.
Like, they don't talk about gays and dinosaurs.
They just say, God bless you.
And you're in there going, thanks that I'm here.
Gays and dinosaurs and abortion don't come up.
You just sit there going, Jesus Christ, what a miracle we're here.
I'm so thankful.
I'm so thankful to have you.
joe rogan
Well, that sounds all positive.
That sounds all positive.
But the idea of like subscribing to this ideology and doing it because you want to somehow or another put order to something that doesn't have order.
gavin mcinnes
I don't want to put order.
No, I am in awe of the chaos.
It's like an awe room.
joe rogan
Okay.
gavin mcinnes
And that's Native American religions, too.
They sit there and they give thanks to the North, they give thanks to the South, thanks to the East, thanks to the West.
All religions are the same.
Well, I think for Muslim religions, because they have such a severe problem with inbreeding that they've gone backwards in time.
joe rogan
He just did it again, huh?
I see what he did.
gavin mcinnes
I see what you did.
No, look at Iran in 1965 and look at Iran now.
They've gone backwards in time.
joe rogan
Well, a lot of that has to do with war.
A lot of that has to do with all sorts of fucked up shit that's going on the middle of the year.
Marrying your first cousin is what it has to do with relying on them for oil.
There's a lot of shit going on.
gavin mcinnes
Relying on them for oil.
Showing them how to mine oil and then paying them tons of money.
joe rogan
Well, that's also created these oligarchs, created these monarchs, these people that have insane amounts of power and wealth and control these areas.
gavin mcinnes
Let's frack then if you hate it over there so much.
joe rogan
I just don't want to ruin our earth.
I don't want to ruin the natural resources of our planet, of our country.
I don't necessarily think that I don't think there's anything good about giving these people insane amounts of money or that there's anything good about relying on them.
I think also we're dependent upon fossil fuels so much that we've innovated in this one direction in such an extreme way.
I find people like Elon Musk pretty fucking fascinating because he's trying to figure out some way to do it in a different way.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, but every time we find out a way, the left goes, no, I don't like that.
I feel like they just want to bitch.
joe rogan
Oh, the left.
gavin mcinnes
Like, we get a pipe from Canada down here.
Yes.
We get a pipe that goes from Canada down here.
How's that?
No, it would kill a bunch of owls.
Okay.
How about we frack here?
No, no, no.
Okay, so you want us to continue dealing with these fucking inbreds?
joe rogan
Well, we have done some really stupid things in the past that have ruined environments.
That's the same, what's Chernobyl.
That's what's going on in Fukushima.
Chernobyl.
There's a lot of different areas of this country that we could point to.
All the, what was it, Love Canal?
What was that fucking one area, the poison?
gavin mcinnes
Three Mile Island?
joe rogan
No, no, no, no.
There was another.
There's been quite a few of them.
Sure.
And the all the nuclear tests that they've done.
I love that one animated GIF.
We see all the nuclear tests throughout history and all the ones they've been just lighting up in Nevada.
Have you ever seen that?
gavin mcinnes
No.
joe rogan
Oh, it's amazing.
It shows you nuclear tests throughout history.
And, you know, you see like the first ones in the 40s, like boom, like, whoa, boom.
And then somewhere around like 1950s, 1960s, they go crazy.
And in Nevada, they just over and over and over again, racking off thousands of nuclear explosions.
And that's how John Wayne died.
gavin mcinnes
That's how the Hulk was created.
joe rogan
I don't think that's true.
The Hulk was gamma rays.
It was a different thing.
gavin mcinnes
But it was in Nevada at a test site, was it not?
joe rogan
Well, I think it was an experiment with gamma radiation that went wrong.
Look at this.
This is the thing.
This is an animated GIF file, and if you look, it shows the dates.
And then around 1940-something, 1949.
No, this is, we're coming in late because why don't we see these, Jamie?
There's one.
Boom.
So this is late.
You started it late.
gavin mcinnes
Time lapse of every nuclear explosion.
joe rogan
So we're in the 1950s now.
The United States ones have already gone off.
gavin mcinnes
What's the matter with this?
joe rogan
If you look at the time up in the testing nuclear explosions, well, what's the matter with it?
unidentified
Well, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
joe rogan
Well, they're blowing up shit in the ocean.
They're blowing up shit.
But there's a lot of those areas that are just extremely toxic now.
Like Chernobyl.
Chernobyl is a fucking mess now.
gavin mcinnes
Fukushima is because they're communist.
But we have to use nuclear weapons.
It ended World War II.
The Chinese, you know what the Chinese, the Japanese, you know what they were doing?
You got to read this book, The Rape of Nan Kui.
Unbroken.
You know the Angelina Jolie movie?
joe rogan
No.
gavin mcinnes
She ruined it.
This guy, Louis Zamparini.
joe rogan
She ruined it?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
What have been the books?
What about the people that wrote it?
gavin mcinnes
What about the book?
No, the book is awesome.
The movie blows.
joe rogan
Right, but did she write the script?
gavin mcinnes
Oh, it was her baby.
joe rogan
Oh, it was hers?
She created it?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
She did the movie of the book.
joe rogan
I'm going to get back to Mark Maron eventually.
gavin mcinnes
Okay.
I hate a lot of famous people.
But he said when he was a POW in World War II, the reason I brought up Angeline Jolie is because I was going to say, if you hear, if you're interested in Unbroken, please don't be discouraged by the shitty movie.
It's a fucking unbelievable book where this POW was stranded on a fucking raft for 35 days.
He beat up sharks.
He got in fist fights with sharks.
Anyway, in the book, when he's a Japanese POW, he saw Japanese women and children being trained to fight, and this wash of doom came over him because he goes, oh my God, after we kill all their men, they're still going to fucking fight.
How are we ever going to end this war?
They're going to go right down to the women and children.
Four-year-olds.
We're going to be fighting four-year-olds before this war is over?
And then, kaboom, kaboom, lit the whole island on fire, horrible bombs.
I'm not a pro-nuclear guy, ended the war.
joe rogan
But isn't there a lot of evidence they were already willing to surrender and that we didn't want to pay any attention to their wars?
gavin mcinnes
Training women and children is not surrendering.
joe rogan
Yeah, but that's just survival.
I mean, anecdotal evidence of training women and children doesn't mean that the country wasn't willing to give up.
They were starving.
I mean, there was embargoes.
They were in a real bad place.
gavin mcinnes
There was evidence that Japan was willing to surrender.
joe rogan
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
And then we just fucking bombed them anyway?
joe rogan
Yeah, we bombed them because we wanted to make a point and we wanted to test out our shit.
gavin mcinnes
Really?
Well, I'll have to look into that.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's arguments on both sides, obviously, because you're talking about something that took place 70 fucking years ago.
It's a long-ass time.
But I think there's arguments that can be made that they didn't have to do that.
gavin mcinnes
Can I get a bucket to piss in?
joe rogan
Yeah, well, you can go piss.
There's a bathroom right out there.
Don't worry about it, man.
Don't worry about it.
We'll pause this bitch.
All right.
He's a fascinating guy, isn't he?
It's cute because he's fucking around, but then he's not fucking around.
It's sort of like a low-rent gonzo journalism thing he's doing.
But he's sort of he has real opinions, and then he fucks around when you challenge those real opinions and says really brash things that he doesn't really believe.
Yeah, it's very Fox Newsish, right?
I don't think it's Fox Newsish, but I find it fascinating that all these right-wing guys, they have to be religious.
It's a part of the protocol.
You have to align yourself with people that will blindly support you or will take you in if you like you have to be religious.
Like Stephen Crowder, religious.
Milo Yiannopoulos, religious.
All those guys they have in common that they represent the right.
And I don't necessarily even buy it.
I don't think they're really subscribing to it.
I think you have to align yourself with people that will blindly support you.
And that's like one of the best ways to do it.
That's how Reagan got in office.
Right?
Aligned himself with the fucking religious people.
That's how he got in there.
gavin mcinnes
But I don't know.
All Canadians think that America is run by Christians.
And then I moved here and I saw a bunch of atheists.
joe rogan
What, run in the country?
Well, they have to say they're Christian.
You have to say Christian.
gavin mcinnes
Professor Obama doesn't believe in God.
joe rogan
How do you know?
gavin mcinnes
He's a Christian.
I can tell.
joe rogan
How can you tell?
Look at his eyes?
The black?
gavin mcinnes
I can smell it.
joe rogan
In fact, they...
*sniff*
Yeah.
You think he's gay?
gavin mcinnes
I have heard that rumor.
It doesn't really wash.
But I do believe a lot of conspiracy shit.
joe rogan
Like what?
gavin mcinnes
I don't think his birth certificate is real.
unidentified
Really?
gavin mcinnes
I think only one of his daughters is his birth daughter.
unidentified
What?
Yeah.
joe rogan
I never heard that one.
gavin mcinnes
You got to talk to Charles.
Have you ever had Charles Johnson on the show?
joe rogan
Yes.
gavin mcinnes
He is.
joe rogan
He's a silly boy.
gavin mcinnes
No, he's a great guy.
He's a nerd beyond nerd.
He's a robot.
He's such a nerd.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
And his research is fucking amazing.
joe rogan
Well, he definitely does a lot of reading, goes after people.
He says some preposterous shit.
gavin mcinnes
Like what?
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
The thing about taking out D-Ray Mackin.
gavin mcinnes
He didn't mean shoot him.
joe rogan
It doesn't matter the way you say it.
Like saying it like that.
When you say something like that, how much would it cost for someone to take him out?
You have to be really specific when you say something like that, where you're talking about a marginalized figure who's maybe people would say a civil rights activist.
gavin mcinnes
He should have said take down.
joe rogan
Take down even is weird.
How about look up dirt on him?
Be real specific as to what you're looking for.
gavin mcinnes
This is nitpicking.
joe rogan
Yeah, maybe.
gavin mcinnes
I got some gossip.
You want some gossip?
Sure.
So I do a show on Anthony Camilla's network.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
And I was going to be on Race Wars with Sherrod Small and Kurt Metzger.
Now, I hate Opie for what he did to Anthony.
joe rogan
Well, what did Opie do?
gavin mcinnes
Nothing.
joe rogan
You mean that he didn't support him?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, they should have left together.
Their contract was.
gavin mcinnes
Or at least put up a bit of a fight.
Or at least call the guy.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, I think Sirius probably offered him a lot of money.
gavin mcinnes
Right.
joe rogan
And he has a wife and kids and the internet thing was not.
gavin mcinnes
Sirius offered me a ton of money.
And I got wife and kids.
joe rogan
You know what you do?
You do exactly what the Jeremy Clarkson people at Top Gear did.
You just step back.
When Jeremy Clarkson got in that fight with the producer at Top Gear and they fired him.
gavin mcinnes
Punched the guy after a 12-hour shift, lost his temper.
joe rogan
James Manny and Robert, what the fuck is it?
What was the other guy's name?
Whatever.
They stepped back and they went, okay, this show's over.
We're not doing this anymore.
We're not doing it without him.
And they decided that they recast Top Gear, and those guys are now doing their own show with the Amazon network.
gavin mcinnes
That's fucking awesome.
joe rogan
It's great.
gavin mcinnes
I wouldn't even ask that of OP.
I would just say, at least try.
I had these friends who, you know, we're always trying to get pilots made and trying to get shows on the air.
And this guy did like a funny news show, and they liked the concept of the show.
They didn't like him as a host.
And they go, well, how about you as the host?
And we were all friends.
And he goes, they want me as the host, and it's his show.
What should I do?
I don't know what to do.
I go, fucking call him and present the situation.
joe rogan
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
And go, this is the deal.
They're not going to hire you.
joe rogan
You don't talk?
gavin mcinnes
They fucking didn't talk at all.
I don't think they've spoken since.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
So when Anthony got fired, that was the last they spoke.
gavin mcinnes
Yep.
joe rogan
What?
gavin mcinnes
He just thought, fuck you.
You fucked up.
I don't need this shit.
joe rogan
That's what he did.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Finally.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, I think he was looking forward to an end.
There's some fights on YouTube where there's one show where he was chewing grapes, I think, and he wasn't paying attention.
Anthony wasn't listening or Opie was chewing grapes.
I can't remember what the details were, but Opie loses his temper and he goes, this isn't going to last forever.
We're going to, we've got maybe another year or so, but we're done.
joe rogan
Yeah, I heard that one.
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
And I'm even fine with that.
But just call the dude and go, I'm done.
You know, we live in this shitty society where people don't fucking talk to each other anymore.
Even my anarcho-punk friends, Crass, Penny Rimbo, the guy who started Crass, he goes, Conflict, we're getting all kinds of royalties from our songs.
And fuck them.
We're never speaking to them again.
And I go, did you call Colin from Conflict?
And he goes, no, I just, I mean, that's what I heard.
And I give him a call.
It turns out they had a Crass cover on one of their live albums.
And technically, they should have been giving the royalties from that song to that.
Why didn't you fucking call him?
Anyway.
joe rogan
That's a very specific instance.
gavin mcinnes
I know.
joe rogan
So Race Wars.
gavin mcinnes
So Race Wars, I was going to be on it.
I am going to be on it on Wednesday to discuss exactly this.
But I get this text from Kurt.
He's going to be so pissed I'm bringing this up again.
But it said, hey, man, do you have some OP shit going on?
And I, on Anthony's show a long time ago, I don't feel strongly about OP at all, really.
I'm actually very new to Opie and Anthony.
And I said, I just noticed as a new listener, every time there's a fun riff going with Jim and Ant that's funny because they're funny guys, Opie would come in like a chick and just go, yeah, well, you shower and I'll show her, right, guys?
And you just hear the vibe go, brrrr.
And it would ruin the fun.
And I called him a torpid sloth, meaning a slow sloth.
Even slower.
joe rogan
Torpid.
gavin mcinnes
Torpid.
unidentified
Lugub.
gavin mcinnes
Lubrious.
joe rogan
I've never even heard that word.
gavin mcinnes
It's a great word.
joe rogan
Thank you.
I'll add that to the vernacular.
gavin mcinnes
Torpid and lugubrious are great ways to say it.
joe rogan
Lugubrious.
What does lugubrious mean?
Same thing.
Slow.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Why not just say slow sloth?
That sounds like a bad thing.
gavin mcinnes
I love the English language and I want to expand it.
That's why I hate immigrants so much.
They massacre it every day.
So that's a beef I have with opi, I guess.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
And by the way, as far as beef, I'm sure both of us personally feel like one molecule of contempt.
joe rogan
Okay.
gavin mcinnes
But if you ask me about him, that's my opinion.
It's like my opinion on Macy Gray.
Not my cup of tea.
joe rogan
The singer?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
But I don't have a beef with Macy Gray.
I just think she sucks.
joe rogan
I don't even know her song.
gavin mcinnes
That big giant black woman, she's just...
unidentified
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Choke?
gavin mcinnes
Say goodbye and I choke.
joe rogan
Oh, oh.
gavin mcinnes
Say goodbye and I choke.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
gavin mcinnes
I think she abandoned her kids, actually, for her career, yeah.
joe rogan
Are you just making that up?
gavin mcinnes
No, maybe the nerd could look it up.
joe rogan
The nerd.
How dare you?
gavin mcinnes
Maybe the super cool guy who gets Lady Lot can look it up.
So anyway, Kurt goes, do you have some weird beef with Opie?
I think we got to cancel you.
joe rogan
What?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And so I...
You have a beef with Opie?
Why would he do that?
gavin mcinnes
To save his job.
To save his show.
And then Sherrod.
joe rogan
I don't understand.
gavin mcinnes
Sherrod calls.
joe rogan
How is it saving his job?
gavin mcinnes
Because it's on OP Radio.
Race Wars is on OP Radio.
unidentified
Oh.
gavin mcinnes
So then Sherrod calls.
joe rogan
That's why you should be on a fucking network right there.
Because I have people on here that are enemies with people who are my friends, and I'm friends with both of them, and they have fucking beef with each other.
I'm like, eh.
Like Damarrera and Dice Clay, they fucking hate each other.
They're both friends of mine.
That's good radio.
I don't take sides unless there's something, like if he's just arguing, like, this guy sounds dumb, or that guy's, there has to be some reason.
Like, you have to have done, this has to be some transgression that I can't accept.
You know, where I say, I have to put my foot down.
But it's just, ah, this guy sounds like a chick.
gavin mcinnes
Well, the exception is if this guy threatened your wife and kids or something.
unidentified
Something.
gavin mcinnes
It's a felony.
joe rogan
I mean, that's a fun crime.
Or you're a rat or you steal jokes or there's got to be a reason.
gavin mcinnes
But even stealing jokes.
Actually, one of my favorite things on the internet is you confronting Carlos Mancia.
That's what you do.
You fucking go to the guy and go, this joke, this joke, this joke, this joke.
joe rogan
Well, with that guy, it kind of had to be done.
But when you have people like that, that's a reason to not have him on.
Like, that makes sense.
Like, this is a real reason.
gavin mcinnes
Sure, but even Carlos Mancia, I would imagine today, him on this show, that would be fucking off.
What happened to him?
Did he vanish up there?
joe rogan
Exactly.
He's so dumb.
If you had him on, you would just be like, oh, this is just fluff.
gavin mcinnes
Tell him to get him out of here.
Then he leaves.
Like, there's a, what's his name?
joe rogan
Then you have to deal with him.
gavin mcinnes
This dude who was on Opian Anthony once who lies.
joe rogan
Who lies?
unidentified
Tucker.
joe rogan
Max Tucker.
gavin mcinnes
And he was talking about some threesome that he filmed with a beta tape.
And they're like, where's the tape then if you filmed it?
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
And he didn't know because he was lying.
And then they just go, get the fuck out of here.
And he leaves.
And it's a fucking great clip.
joe rogan
And then they tore up his book.
gavin mcinnes
Yes, yes, yes.
But anyway, she goes, yeah.
And then Sherrod, who's sort of the alpha male of that show, goes, he goes, every time I do an imitation of him, he says it's slavey, so I won't do it, bro.
joe rogan
Slavey?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, I go, I'm Canadian.
We don't do slavery shit.
unidentified
He goes, nigga, Obi didn't cancel you, nigga.
gavin mcinnes
Give.
I canceled you.
And I go, why?
And he goes, I want to be more informed.
And I go, then text me and go, did you threaten his kids and wife?
And then I would text no.
And then you go, you're.
joe rogan
Was that an accusation?
gavin mcinnes
No, but I'm saying that's a reason to cancel.
So find out if it's the big one.
And then if it's not, say, let's have it on the air.
And the same thing happened with Jim Norton on Opie and Anthony back when it was Opie and Anthony.
He was doing a show with Vice, and I was scheduled to be on, and he bumped it.
And I called him.
Now, Jim, Sherrod, and Kurt, I love, by the way.
I'm sorry I'm fucking talking shit.
Awesome dudes, but this is just a thing that I think someone did wrong.
I mean, it's like you jaywalking.
I'd say Joe Morgan shouldn't have jaywalked.
So Jim goes, no, I wanted to be informed before I had you on.
And we fought for an hour and a half about this.
And I couldn't get anywhere in the air.
It was like that David Cross thing about free lunches.
I couldn't move forward.
unidentified
It was just, and I go, how can you fucking believe that?
gavin mcinnes
Informed?
unidentified
What?
gavin mcinnes
You always have a dossier on every guest and you understand every facet of their lives?
unidentified
You didn't want me on because you had a vice show and you didn't want to jeopardize it.
gavin mcinnes
And he goes, no, I didn't want you bringing up some beef with someone at vice that I didn't know about.
And I'm like, well, then have it out on the air.
joe rogan
Well, not only that, how about just do a little research?
I mean, how long does it take to find out?
unidentified
Two seconds.
gavin mcinnes
I had a guy on my show who believes the Earth is flat.
joe rogan
I had a guy that's been fucking sending me YouTube clips.
He's angry and they made a hate video about me because I deny that the Earth is flat and he finds inconsistencies with the space station photographs.
Hilarious.
gavin mcinnes
Puddle theory, I think it's called.
It's adorable.
Now, I clearly wasn't informed on puddle theory when I had the guy on.
joe rogan
Clearly.
gavin mcinnes
I didn't go, well, actually, the Antarctica has been explored in 1936, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I was like, so what's this?
The Earth is flat?
And then we discussed the flat Earth.
joe rogan
And what did the guy say?
Can I watch that?
What's the episode?
gavin mcinnes
It's the David Webb, Down the Rabbit Hole, Deep Down the Rabbit Hole guy.
He has a podcast on Stand Up New York.
joe rogan
Oh, there's a rabbit hole.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And the rabbit hole is the Earth is flat.
gavin mcinnes
He's one of many people who believe this.
joe rogan
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
It actually made him believe in God because he thought the great creator made this series of puddles.
unidentified
Wow.
gavin mcinnes
There's a series of sorts of people.
joe rogan
You and me walk together and talk about 1930s microphones and dudes with three dicks.
Jesus fucking Christ.
So what is the beef with Vice?
You guys started together.
Shane Smith's a good friend of mine, but we never...
Yeah, I like that guy.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
How dare you?
gavin mcinnes
Okay.
joe rogan
I like him.
I like him.
gavin mcinnes
He's, I mean, I grew up with him.
joe rogan
I love him.
How about that?
I hug him when I see him.
gavin mcinnes
Really?
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
He's a sweetie.
gavin mcinnes
I think that he's not a friend of mine.
joe rogan
But you grew up together?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
When did it go wrong?
gavin mcinnes
06.
joe rogan
What happened?
gavin mcinnes
I think it was, I mean, I legally can't talk about it because I sold my shares, so I did a non-disclosure, non-disparagement thing.
unidentified
Get paid?
gavin mcinnes
I got fucking incredibly paid.
I've made great money since then, too.
But I just keep hearing things about him and I go, Really?
People believe that?
Like, I got this story recently.
Oh, yeah, when I was in the Bosnian war as a war reporter, writing about Tito, and I thought a lot of these war journalists are lazy.
And I'm like, dude, you weren't even there.
And war reporters, producers died reporting on that war.
And you're talking about them like they're human garbage, the audacity.
And no one ever looks it up.
Charles C. Johnson is one of the few guys who looks it up and goes, you weren't fucking there.
You never worked for AP.
joe rogan
I don't know anything about that, so I can't comment.
gavin mcinnes
Well, when I hired him as a salesman after we started the magazine, I never thought I'd be talking about him as a journalist because he never seemed to have any kind of interest in it whatsoever.
joe rogan
Well, his videos of him going to all these different places are fucking extraordinary.
You've got to admit that.
gavin mcinnes
Never seen him.
joe rogan
Really?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You should watch them and then maybe comment.
gavin mcinnes
Okay, yeah.
joe rogan
And as far as he goes, I can't say anything about him post-08 because I've never seen anything he's done or my problem is everything that I've seen is post-09.
Okay.
Everything I saw was post-me starting this podcast.
gavin mcinnes
So we're not contradicting each other here.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know what he said before or what he's saying now, but I said this.
gavin mcinnes
This is how I sum up most splits.
Like I was talking to Jill Abramson from the New York Times.
You know her?
She was the executive advisor.
joe rogan
I know her name, sure.
gavin mcinnes
She was ousted.
joe rogan
How dare they?
gavin mcinnes
I go, it comes down to beers, right?
Like, you weren't going out for beers with Pinch, Arthur Sulzberger, the head of the New York Times.
And she goes, yeah, basically.
I mean, that's what all these splits come down to is we stopped liking each other.
We didn't go out for beers anymore.
Opi and Anthony.
unidentified
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
We weren't going out for splits anymore.
joe rogan
We don't have any more friends.
gavin mcinnes
That's what's so great about the Japanese.
They insist on beers.
And when you have beers with someone that you work with, you and the super hot hunk, you establish that you're both human beings and that though you disagree, I hate when BLTs aren't toasted too.
And it just, it's like a reboot of the humanity of people.
And I had a wife and kids, you know, they didn't, and we stopped hanging out.
And then any excuse was a reason to split.
joe rogan
So you agree to disagree?
gavin mcinnes
On what?
joe rogan
On that.
gavin mcinnes
No, it was a horrible divorce.
It was lawyers and tons of horrible shit.
But I'm saying that was the impetus.
It's that simple.
It's not like there's some sort of big secret, like I fucked his girlfriend.
joe rogan
Do you wish that you were still involved in that?
Because you started it and now you see it grow and it's on HBO and it's this huge fucking thing online.
It's massive.
gavin mcinnes
The only way I could, I always ran 100% of the content.
I was the boss of that and they did sales.
joe rogan
So how did it happen that Shane became the boss?
gavin mcinnes
Well, as we grew bigger, we were doing mergers and I think, you know, your salesman has power because he's bringing in the money.
So that salesman can start exercising that power if he wants.
And so, you know, when he said, fuck you, all of a sudden it had this big influence.
And when I said, fuck you back, it became lawyer things.
But for me to still be there, I would have to be subservient to my previous employees, in a sense, like my salesman, my Herb Tarlick.
It would be Johnny Fever asking Herb Tarlick if he could play a song.
joe rogan
There's some reference that I'm struggling to keep up with.
I kind of remember Johnny Fever, but Herb was the guy.
gavin mcinnes
He was a sales guy.
joe rogan
Yeah, okay, I remember that.
gavin mcinnes
Herb Tarlick and Les Nessman have taken over WKRP.
And you're saying to Johnny Fever, would he like to come back to WKRP?
joe rogan
Are you Johnny Fever?
unidentified
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
Who else am I going to be?
Bailey?
joe rogan
Maybe the chick.
Was it?
Lonnie Anderson?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
Lonnie and Bailey.
I was the chick.
I was the secretary of Vice.
joe rogan
But Vice is a totally different animal now, right?
I mean, massive multimedia conglomerate.
gavin mcinnes
I don't know anything about it.
joe rogan
That's got to be so weird.
gavin mcinnes
It's a house of cards.
joe rogan
Did you name it?
gavin mcinnes
I don't know.
Yeah, we were called Voice of Montreal.
Sarouche named it.
Les Nessman named it.
And it was a tax scam that these black Haitians were running.
And they just kept us as a golden goose, pretended it was this multicultural paper, and they got their money.
And then we realized, I think after I hired Shane, that they don't want us to generate income because they just need us to be this tiny little bubble that they get paid to promote.
You know, there's all this money in Canada to promote multiculturalism and all this shit.
So we were a multicultural paper, but we wrote about skateboarding and punk bands.
The people paying the money.
Yeah, never read the, it was a newsprint tablet.
joe rogan
And so how did it become what it is now?
gavin mcinnes
So we left, and to avoid litigation, I said, let's just change the name to Vice from Voice.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
And then we made up this lie where we said the village voice in New York threatened to sue us.
So we had to change the name to survive.
And Canadians fucking salivate over any David and Goliath story involving America.
So it was in everything.
It was in all the magazines, all the papers, coast to coast.
America's bullying Canada again.
And no one looked it up.
joe rogan
And after you left, so this is 2006, that's when it took off.
You had to be like, what the fuck?
gavin mcinnes
I left in 08.
joe rogan
Oh, you left in 08.
gavin mcinnes
Things started getting rocky in 06.
Well, yeah, if the salesman takes over a company, it's going to become more profitable.
I mean, my sort of thing.
joe rogan
Well, not just more profitable, but bigger.
I mean, not just profitable, but the reach.
Like, what it's going to accomplish.
gavin mcinnes
Your ex-wife is sucking off, a dude.
Like, she's getting funny.
joe rogan
She's doing a really good job.
That's what I'm trying to get to.
gavin mcinnes
In that Woody Allen movie in Husbands and Wives, when they go, I saw your ex-wife.
She was with Liam Neeson.
She looked great.
joe rogan
Is that when you found Jesus?
gavin mcinnes
Let me see.
No, I found Jesus in 05.
joe rogan
Oh.
Any coincidence that that's when shit started to go bad 12 months later?
No.
gavin mcinnes
I mean, I've never been very public about my religion and my deism.
I don't even know how it came up in this podcast.
I honestly get uncomfortable when it comes up because I feel like we're talking about my foreskin or something.
I'd actually feel like you're talking about my foreskin, yeah.
joe rogan
That's what I was saying.
I feel like you'd talk about your foreskin.
gavin mcinnes
It's like talking about my wife's asshole.
Talking about religion is like talking about my wife's asshole.
joe rogan
Interesting.
Yeah.
So, but now when you see vice on HBO, do you have to flip the channels or do you watch it?
gavin mcinnes
I've never watched it.
It doesn't come up.
I think it has come up once in a while when I'm scrolling and I just keep scrolling.
joe rogan
Do you have a feeling?
Like seeing a photo of an old girl?
gavin mcinnes
Disdain.
I don't like those guys.
So, you know, it's like an X-band.
joe rogan
Right, right, right, right.
gavin mcinnes
I don't enjoy it.
I'm not enjoying this, actually.
joe rogan
You're not enjoying this show?
gavin mcinnes
Well, no, no, the show is great, but this topic.
joe rogan
Okay, we don't have to talk about this.
I love Anthony.
Anthony's fucking awesome.
I think he's a national treasurer.
He's such a freak.
gavin mcinnes
Great guy, but you know what he has in common with David is 50-year-olds are kind of done.
Like, they have their shit that they like.
joe rogan
They say David?
gavin mcinnes
David Cross.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
gavin mcinnes
They have their shit they like, and they're not looking for buddies.
And they don't want noogies, and they don't want a wedgie.
I'm a buddy guy.
I think you farted and you didn't say safety.
I said slut.
I get to slap you.
So with Anthony, I'm like, all right, we're part of the network.
We're buddies now.
joe rogan
Fucking Canadians.
gavin mcinnes
Let's be buddies.
And he's like, no, I'm an old dude.
I like watching Fox and playing with my cat.
joe rogan
So he doesn't like to do anything.
gavin mcinnes
He's not as, I don't know.
I thought we would become best friends after I joined the network.
joe rogan
You were hoping.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's what you wanted to join for?
You wanted a bestie?
gavin mcinnes
Yes.
And I did Adam Carolla's show.
joe rogan
Same thing.
gavin mcinnes
After I was like, all right, so we're getting wiener dogs or what's the deal here?
And he's just like, bye, and he walks out of the room.
And I'm like, wait a minute.
joe rogan
You don't ever get to be bestie.
No one gets to be besties with Adam.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
Adam's got his own little groove going on.
gavin mcinnes
He doesn't want to hang.
joe rogan
Well, he has 50 different projects going on simultaneously all the time.
You know, that guy has TV shows.
He's got fucking, who knows how many goddamn podcasts he runs simultaneously.
He's always racing cars.
He doesn't have any time.
gavin mcinnes
No, but 50-year-olds have established that.
50 year olds get to a point where they go, "I wanted to have 50 shows and a racing car, I'm good." And they're like, can someone get him out of here?
joe rogan
So you really need to make friends at the church.
Isn't that part of what's good about church?
gavin mcinnes
Every time I've been to church, the people around me are losers.
joe rogan
That's weird.
I wonder if they think the same way.
gavin mcinnes
Old ladies, incredibly obese, hideous people.
joe rogan
Why?
Because they're desperate and they're looking for somebody.
gavin mcinnes
It's like liberals.
I mean, that's the reason most comedians are liberal because liberals don't have rules.
They're like, I'll take anything.
So all artists, artists are liberal.
joe rogan
What do you mean?
They don't have rules.
gavin mcinnes
Well, think of how liberals and conservatives see painting.
Conservatives go, can you draw a hand?
Does it look realistic?
Liberals are like, put a tampon in a teacup, you get an A-plus.
So creative people tend to be left because the left will take you.
joe rogan
Robert Maplethorpe.
Yeah.
unidentified
So that's hilarious.
gavin mcinnes
Well, it confused me for a long time because I thought, why are so many comedians liberal?
They're analytical people by nature.
They investigate shit, yet they're all pro-Bernie Sanders.
He wants to take your money away.
Didn't you look up how much money rich people have and what the debt is?
joe rogan
I think they're trying to find an alternative to what they think is a broken system, and they don't really investigate it deeply enough to realize that what Bernie Sanders is saying, like financially, doesn't seem to be possible.
Like, I don't think I've seen anybody say that the numbers jive.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, but they don't look up the numbers.
And like, someone was saying to me about you, they go, he's like a smart, dumb guy.
And I go, no, he's a curious guy.
And that's what interesting people are.
They're curious.
And most comedians are curious people.
Well, if you're curious, you'll look it up.
Does that piss you off?
joe rogan
It's weird.
It doesn't make sense.
gavin mcinnes
Well, maybe it means we talk about elaborate subjects in a blue-collar way.
joe rogan
Okay.
gavin mcinnes
But I don't get how people can be comedians, which means curious, and not have looked shit up.
You could drain Warren Buffett and Bill Gates and all those guys' bank account.
It doesn't take a pube out of $18 trillion.
How have you not Googled that, you fuckheads?
joe rogan
Well, not only does it not take a pube.
I think if you tax every single person in this country that makes a million dollars, if you tax them 100%, you don't even come close.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah, every single person.
Like, you would take all of their money that they make.
It doesn't come close.
gavin mcinnes
This is why I don't like arguing with liberals, and I prefer focusing on my disagreements with people on the right, because at least they've done their fucking homework.
joe rogan
Well, I just say I don't like rigid ideologies.
Like I said, I don't like the idea of a liberal or a conservative.
I think people lock themselves into these ideas, and then, this is as, like I said about my friend who is a Democrat, like, we've got to win.
If we win the Senate, like, what are you saying?
Like, what's this we?
You are in, you know, you're rooting for the Raiders.
gavin mcinnes
Right.
joe rogan
You know, it really is what it is.
gavin mcinnes
But if you say to a conservative, we're a nation of immigrants or something like that, some sort of cliche thing.
They've already heard it so many times.
They go, actually, we're a nation of citizens.
And the borders were open in 65.
joe rogan
Well, listen to what you just said.
If you say that to a liberal, it's this.
If you say that to a conservative, they do this.
gavin mcinnes
That's not my experience.
With the left, they say things like, well, like you and Greg, you go, teachers don't make enough.
You hadn't looked up how much teachers make.
joe rogan
They don't make enough.
It's still not enough money.
gavin mcinnes
60 bucks an hour isn't enough money?
joe rogan
I think we agree that it should be private because I think that when you have things private and you can make people fired and you give contracts to companies that are competitive, you get a better product.
Because I think capitalism does work in a lot of ways.
gavin mcinnes
Charter schools are great.
And charter school teachers make less than public school teachers.
And they're kicking ass.
And they get fucking three months off a year.
They go home at 320.
You know how bored you'd be if you worked that little?
joe rogan
I would be, I would, look, if I got off work at 320, that would mean I'd have to go there at 7.
I'd be fucking tired.
And I would be looking for a nap.
gavin mcinnes
Easiest job in the world.
But my point is that I find with the left, when I bring up shit, they have never looked it up.
Like you say to them, how many legals are in the country?
They have no idea.
You say, education needs more funding.
How much does each student get as far as how much we spend and what goes to them?
The answer is about 12 grand, about 1,000 bucks a month.
They never have any idea.
They always say, it's not enough, whatever it is.
Or with immigration, I go, how many immigrants can we take in?
And they go, more than we have now.
And you go, there's 30 million.
What's a good number?
100 million?
And they go, more.
And I'm like, you fucking hate math.
That's why you're a liberal.
You just like the idea.
You're basically a woman.
You like, I'm not saying you, I mean liberals in general.
They just like the sentimentality, like, this, we're immigrants.
By nice to Mexicans.
joe rogan
Am I a liberal?
gavin mcinnes
No, I don't think so.
joe rogan
What am I?
gavin mcinnes
I think you're mostly a libertarian.
joe rogan
Yeah, I would probably say that.
gavin mcinnes
I'm a libertarian for everything but open borders.
I don't understand why they want open borders.
joe rogan
Well, because we feel like the people in the other countries got a shitty deal.
They got a bad roll of the dice, and they're stuck in this really roll the dice.
gavin mcinnes
Evolution is a roll of the dice?
joe rogan
Evolution for Mexico?
gavin mcinnes
Mexico sucks because of Mexicans.
What have they contributed to society in the past 100 years?
joe rogan
Goritos?
gavin mcinnes
That's what Vincente Fox said when he was challenged.
They said he said, give us a Mexican innovation from the past 100 years.
And he goes, the taco.
joe rogan
Delicious food.
He's got a point.
gavin mcinnes
Yes, it is.
joe rogan
about sombreros.
gavin mcinnes
I've noticed in California when I bring up Mexicans, people get uncomfortable I like food.
I love Mexicans.
And the Mexicans we have, by the way, are the funny ones.
Northern Mexico, you know, different regions have their different things.
Like in Britain, the Scots are known as funny.
For some reason, northerners are always funnier.
Maybe it's colder.
joe rogan
Yeah, they have to have a sense of humor because it's fucking freezing.
unidentified
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
So we get the best as far as cool guys to hang out with.
And I love, my movie, How to Be a Man, did incredibly well with Hispanics.
More than Hispanic.
joe rogan
What movie is this?
What is it?
I'm not even aware of this.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, I did a movie called How to Be a Man.
joe rogan
What was it?
gavin mcinnes
It was a comedy about a guy who's dying.
joe rogan
A fiction?
gavin mcinnes
Yes.
And he's recording videos for his unborn son.
So after he dies, the kid can watch the videos and learn from that, which we stole from a Michael Keaton movie, which we mentioned in the film several times.
And I just assumed it would do well with hipsters.
Then we got the demo back, and it was like all Hispanics because they're the only ones into how to be a man.
Most millennials think it's a bad thing to be a man.
But anyway, so I love Mexicans.
Right.
joe rogan
We just don't want them coming over here.
gavin mcinnes
The way we have immigration work now is a fucking disgusting thing.
joe rogan
Isn't that funny you say that?
Because you're an immigrant.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, I took 10 years, 10,000 bucks, brought a heapload of jobs, and I got punished for it.
joe rogan
How'd you get punished?
gavin mcinnes
I was charged 10 grand.
It took me 10 years.
joe rogan
But that doesn't seem like punishment.
gavin mcinnes
That seems like my fucking citizenship.
I'm another $650 away and a bullshit test about what color is the flag.
joe rogan
Why do you want to be an American citizen?
You don't want to be a citizen of your nation?
gavin mcinnes
Because right now, if I drunk drive or do something bad, it could fuck up my green card and shit like that.
joe rogan
Oh, so you want to be able to drunk drive?
So that's why you want an American citizenship?
gavin mcinnes
That's not why, but I do thoroughly enjoy drunk driving.
Yeah.
Do you drive drunk?
joe rogan
No.
gavin mcinnes
It's the best.
It's like playing a video game.
joe rogan
Oh, come on, man.
gavin mcinnes
I don't mean blackout, but seven beers?
joe rogan
That's a fun little drive.
God damn, dude, that's really drunk.
Like, your fucking reaction time's terrible.
If something happens, you could slam right into things.
unidentified
No.
gavin mcinnes
Drunk driving is a myth.
joe rogan
Wow.
What do you mean it's a myth?
What does that mean?
gavin mcinnes
I mean the world wouldn't be better if the world wouldn't change if it was made legal.
People would not.
People don't jeopardize their own safety.
You know, in America, in New York, sorry, it's illegal to drive after two beers.
You shouldn't be commanding a vehicle if you can't handle it on two beers.
And I'm on two beers right now.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's 08 or 09.09.
Yeah.
Well, that I think is low, but I think that's also a revenue collecting device.
Totally.
gavin mcinnes
It's like recycling.
joe rogan
I think if you could do a test of people's coordination after two beers, you would find it's really not much different than being sober.
But seven beers, big fucking difference.
gavin mcinnes
Driving is simple.
Think of how.
joe rogan
Driving is not simple if something goes wrong and you have to make a split-second decision and your reaction time is fucked up so a collision occurs that wouldn't have occurred if you weren't drunk.
That's where it becomes a problem.
gavin mcinnes
You sound super anti-drunk driving.
joe rogan
Well, if the shit hits the fan.
If the shit hits the fan, you can't keep it together.
If something happens in front of you, you have to slam on your brakes.
gavin mcinnes
A deer?
joe rogan
A person.
Someone makes a mistake.
Someone goes into your lane.
You could cause a collision because you're drunk where you would have avoided it if you were sober.
That's a fact.
gavin mcinnes
People are jumping out on the highway now.
joe rogan
I don't understand this scenario.
Cars making a mistake.
gavin mcinnes
Someone coming in, you come in your lane.
Oh, you bonked.
joe rogan
No, you don't bonk.
You collide and people die.
It happens all the time.
Car accidents on the highway are fucking deadly.
People happen all the time.
You can accidentally, like Caitlin Jenner did, push someone into fucking traffic and they get hit.
gavin mcinnes
Texting is way more dangerous than texting.
joe rogan
He was spaced out.
gavin mcinnes
She was texting.
Was he he or she then?
joe rogan
He was he then.
Why did he say, I think he already had fake tits.
unidentified
But he was, or at least.
gavin mcinnes
He had a sweatshirt on.
joe rogan
He was like a lazy face, though.
That big face, the big man face before he turned his face.
gavin mcinnes
He was texting.
I can't remember where I saw him.
joe rogan
I don't think he was.
I don't think that's ever been proven.
I think that was part of the investigation.
gavin mcinnes
It's got to be my main platform when I run for president.
But I think drunk driving is not an issue.
I thoroughly enjoy it.
joe rogan
Roger Avery killed somebody drunk driving.
gavin mcinnes
Okay.
joe rogan
The guy who wrote pulp fiction with Quentin Tarantino.
gavin mcinnes
There's hundreds of right now.
unidentified
Think of how many cars are going opposite directions.
joe rogan
Right?
gavin mcinnes
And we only have, what, 40,000 deaths a year?
joe rogan
But don't you think that people are less likely to drunk drive because they're terrified of losing their license?
They're terrified.
Yeah, so they do it less.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, so they have less fun.
That's why LA is fun.
LA is not fun.
Because people don't drink here.
joe rogan
I have a hard time talking to you because I don't know when you're fucking around and when you're being.
gavin mcinnes
Definitely serious.
LA sucks.
I fucking hate this city with a passion.
joe rogan
You're doing it.
gavin mcinnes
No one is fun here.
joe rogan
Silly.
gavin mcinnes
Bars don't open at any given time, and everyone's petrified of drunk driving, so they don't even drink when they go out.
joe rogan
People go.
No, they do drink.
They get Ubers.
Ubers are everywhere.
gavin mcinnes
Uber's recent.
joe rogan
Yeah, but that's what they do now.
gavin mcinnes
Okay, well, I can't wait to post Uber in LA.
joe rogan
I'm talking about Uber.
gavin mcinnes
We're going back like three years now.
I'm talking about LA since I've been coming here, which is.
joe rogan
Two.
It's like the Uber thing is like one and a half, maybe.
Like where really people adopted it.
gavin mcinnes
Maybe LA is getting better since Uber, but the LA I know is fucking shittily dressed, squares.
joe rogan
What about you?
gavin mcinnes
Don't you?
joe rogan
You're goofy.
gavin mcinnes
I'm incredibly well dressed.
joe rogan
You think that's a good tie?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I'll kill you with that tie.
That's probably the problem with that tie.
You and I got an altercation.
If you die, got an altercation.
I'll kill you with that tie.
Do you know that?
gavin mcinnes
It's not good for combat.
It's not a good combat.
joe rogan
It's terrible.
But it's a leash.
You have a leash around your neck, and I control you with that tie.
gavin mcinnes
But I'm not wearing it into the cage match.
joe rogan
I get my hands underneath that thing, and I twist.
gavin mcinnes
So you're getting defended because I'm criticizing your town.
joe rogan
No, I'm not.
It's not.
gavin mcinnes
You can go well.
joe rogan
I just live here.
gavin mcinnes
You must go to New York and go, holy fuck.
joe rogan
No, that's ridiculous.
gavin mcinnes
What is this?
Disneyland fun?
joe rogan
I don't think it's a good idea to have that many people jammed into a place, whether it's here or there.
I don't like it.
gavin mcinnes
I definitely don't have that problem here.
joe rogan
I like it.
gavin mcinnes
Person, sidewalk, empty cup, fucking tumbleweed.
Person, fucking, abandoned carpet.
Look at palm trees.
They're not even wood.
That's not a tree.
joe rogan
No, it's not.
It's a plant.
gavin mcinnes
It's a disgusting, hideous plant.
joe rogan
Why is it not a tree?
Why is it not a tree?
gavin mcinnes
You can't get wood from it.
joe rogan
That's right.
gavin mcinnes
It's got dead leaves hanging off it.
You go to like a carpet store in West Hollywood and you go, oh, this must be abandoned.
The paint is chipping off.
No one likes this place.
No, it's open.
It's actually super expensive.
joe rogan
Yeah, but in New York you can't get it.
You don't even park your fucking car.
They have these subway cars.
gavin mcinnes
You take the subway.
joe rogan
I am an American and I enjoy automobiles.
gavin mcinnes
Then take the carpet when you go out to the country to hunt.
You're only fucking 30 minutes from awesome forests and fucking shooting bears.
joe rogan
You mean over there?
gavin mcinnes
Up there.
joe rogan
Well, I shot an elk an hour and a half away from here.
gavin mcinnes
Okay.
Well, that's pretty much Earth.
joe rogan
Earth?
An hour and a half away from elk?
gavin mcinnes
I mean, maybe not Europe, but as far as where you would want to hunt, you're usually an hour and a half away from nature.
Do you honestly not think LA sucks?
joe rogan
No, I don't think LA is ideal, but I think LA has a lot of great things.
I think the real problem is overpopulation.
I think whenever you have too many, you know, all the trends, San Diego, man, I worked in San Diego last night, and we drove down to San Diego.
We had to leave at 12.30, and it only took us three hours to get there, which is pretty good.
I mean, it's really a two-hour drive with an hour of traffic.
That's not bad.
But the last hour was all San Diego traffic, and I was like, wow, this is crazy different than it used to be a few years ago.
It's gotten a lot worse in the world.
gavin mcinnes
San Diego fucking reeks.
I don't mean stinks literally, but figuratively reeks way worse than L.A. and a lot of bums, man.
I think skateboarding is illegal there.
That's how shitty it is.
joe rogan
Well, it's a very conservative city.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
San Diego's family.
gavin mcinnes
Parents love it there, and it's like they're telling me that they suck black guys' dicks on the weekends.
Like, I go, what?
joe rogan
It's a conservative town.
You know, it's a lot of military people, a lot of bait.
You know, it's the bases there.
gavin mcinnes
Here's the best cities in the world.
Utrecht?
joe rogan
What's that?
gavin mcinnes
It's near Amsterdam.
It's like Amsterdam without the jocks.
Oh, okay.
Barcelona.
joe rogan
I heard Barcelona's pretty awesome.
My friend Chris Ryan just moving back there.
gavin mcinnes
Paris.
joe rogan
Paris.
gavin mcinnes
New York City.
Montreal.
joe rogan
So when you're in New York City, do you take cabs?
Do you do the subway everywhere?
Everyway, everywhere.
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
Now, full disclosure, you say you don't know when I'm kidding when I'm serious.
I'm kind of being pre-2015 Gav.
At 45 with three kids, New York's been there 15 years.
To be totally honest, this kills my argument, but it is wearing on me a little bit.
joe rogan
I appreciate your honesty.
I mean, I don't think there's a reason to have blind allegiance towards a particular spot on the ground.
gavin mcinnes
I did for a long time, but I'm drinking two rats at once regularly.
Fucking saying no to, I'm done with the city, to be honest.
joe rogan
Did you see the video of the rat killing the pigeon?
gavin mcinnes
Oh, Anthony had that on his show, yeah.
joe rogan
Isn't that amazing?
gavin mcinnes
Unfucking.
joe rogan
Fucking no, they hunted.
I had no idea rats hunted.
Rats hunted this pigeon and jacked him.
I mean, it's like fit his neck.
Yeah, and chased him, like lost him for a bit, and then had to chase him and got him again.
Like, it was crazy.
gavin mcinnes
Moms everywhere.
And you know what drives me nuts about New York?
Sorry, pre-2015, Gav.
These fucking kids dancing on the subway for money, and they're swinging around the poles.
Do you know about this?
joe rogan
No.
gavin mcinnes
They fucking.
joe rogan
So like you get on the subway.
gavin mcinnes
Get on the subway.
joe rogan
I'm about to do a show.
gavin mcinnes
Yep.
And they get out.
And the shit they're doing isn't impressive.
They're swinging around a pole on the train and you go, that's a stripper pole, Faggot.
You're not as good as the strippers I usually see.
You're a loser.
And then they'll do shit like they'll, so they'll go upside down and slide down it slowly.
And you can see the people who just moved here going, oh my God.
And I go, go to a strip club, and you'll see way better shit than that.
And then they do this thing with their hat, where they flip it and plop it on their head like that's hard.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
Like if we were drinking outside, no, a baseball hat, or they'll touch in their teeth and flip it on their head.
If we were drinking at an outside bar and you did that, I would go, oh, land on your head.
joe rogan
Yeah, it would be annoying.
It is annoying.
gavin mcinnes
It's fucking annoying.
joe rogan
I didn't know that that was going on.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, it's a thing.
joe rogan
Most people don't know this.
You're educating a lot of folks right now.
gavin mcinnes
They will kick you in the head, too.
joe rogan
Really?
gavin mcinnes
Well, by accident, yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, when they're spinning around.
gavin mcinnes
Old New Yorkers go, those fucking guys start near me and they fucking touch me, they're all going down.
joe rogan
Wow.
gavin mcinnes
And it's like seven-year-old New Yorker impression.
joe rogan
It's an old school Irish Hell's Kitchen guy.
gavin mcinnes
Hell's Kitchen, yeah.
That's the nights I'm in.
And those guys are fucking.
Because when they say shit like that, I go, yeah, but then you're in the New York Post in that little sliver that says, man in subway stabbed to death after altercation.
joe rogan
Well, how much violence does go on on subways?
Because you always hear about the bad incidents, but every day, millions of people are going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.
gavin mcinnes
It's not crime in New York.
There's a murder a day, all East New York.
All Bushwick, blood scripts.
Most of the gangs are in the state.
joe rogan
Only one a day?
gavin mcinnes
One a day on average.
joe rogan
That's not that much.
gavin mcinnes
A little more.
Maybe 400 a year, but yeah.
joe rogan
Well, West Hollywood only had one murder this whole year.
Happened at the comedy store a couple nights ago.
unidentified
No way.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who was it, Don Barris?
He killed.
He killed on stage.
No, there was a guy who apparently wasn't even a comic, and he was out on the patio, and someone walked up to him and shot him six times in front of everybody.
Yeah.
unidentified
Maybe a brutal debt.
joe rogan
They think it was gang-related.
It's all speculation.
Yeah.
And they had a black comedy night, urban in quotes, urban comedy night.
And they'd had some issues with gang members there before, allegedly.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, he probably made fun of a dude.
joe rogan
I don't think so.
He wasn't a comic.
Oh, fuck.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They think he just was a guy that they knew he was going to be there.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, so it's just Compton culture visiting West Hollywood and us seeing what they go through every day.
joe rogan
Probably.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Something along those lines.
But I found it amazing that that was the only murder in Hollywood for a year.
gavin mcinnes
Wasn't it all gays in Hollywood, West Hollywood?
joe rogan
That area, like below that, is very gay.
Not all gays, but a lot of straight people move to those areas because they're super safe.
Because where the gays live, it's like they take care of everything.
gavin mcinnes
Well, gays are happy because they get laid a lot.
joe rogan
That makes a big difference.
See, that kills your argument about gays having a problem.
It's good.
gavin mcinnes
I think gay marriage is a tiny contingent of bitchy gays.
Most gays don't give a fuck.
joe rogan
Now, what we never figured out.
What did Marin get upset with?
It was after the show.
gavin mcinnes
He said the problem with education is systemic.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
A word I hate more than the word batshit crazy.
joe rogan
You don't hate.
gavin mcinnes
I hate the word bat shit.
What the fuck does that mean?
joe rogan
Well, bat shit is really dangerous.
Guano?
gavin mcinnes
Oh, I never knew that.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a funny story.
gavin mcinnes
You're making me hate the word less.
joe rogan
There was these scientists, and there's a particular cave in Africa.
And so they had set up to make this video of these bats coming out of the cave because millions and millions of bats on a nightly basis come out of this cave.
So they set up the cameras.
What they didn't anticipate is that these bats, when they come out of the cave, they release their bowels instantly.
So they were literally covered in bat shit.
Like swarms and millions and millions of bats shitting all over them.
And they develop these hemorrhagic viruses, these horrible diseases, bleeding from their eyes.
Just horrific.
And they were dead within a week.
And they don't know what the fuck killed them.
And they had to continue to get away from it.
gavin mcinnes
I don't hate that shit crazy anymore.
joe rogan
Yeah.
gavin mcinnes
Thank you for that.
joe rogan
That shit is dangerous.
gavin mcinnes
Can I piss again?
joe rogan
Yeah, go ahead.
Go ahead.
We're going to wrap this up soon anyway.
As soon as you come back.
gavin mcinnes
Do a read for FanDuel or something.
joe rogan
No, I don't do reads during the show.
It's falling apart.
A little bit.
Falling apart with his bladder.
unidentified
I'll show you now.
He's a little off on the teacher wages.
Okay.
joe rogan
Let's see what it is.
Of course he is.
gavin mcinnes
Closer to $15 to $20 average.
joe rogan
This is a U.S. average.
Okay.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah.
Median hourly rate by job.
Yeah, I didn't believe that.
$60 an hour.
That seems kind of silly.
It's really interesting because he's a very smart guy.
But it's almost like he's purposely sabotaging real intellectual debate.
unidentified
That's kind of why I said Fox News earlier.
It's just like they're making points to make a point and then they want to argue the point.
joe rogan
Well, he gets into it and then he sabotages it with humor.
Like he fucks it up.
It's almost like there's a strategic use of the word faggot.
Hey, look at the actual statistics for how much teachers get paid.
It's a lot less.
$11 for a substitute teacher, $14 for preschool, elementary school, $15 an hour.
High school, $20 an hour.
Imagine getting $20.
That's the highest rate they get, by the way.
But imagine getting $20.
gavin mcinnes
I don't just fart stats out of my ass.
I've looked this up.
joe rogan
Well, have a seat so we can hear you on the microphone.
Okay, get a beer.
What is the source?
unidentified
Payscale.com.
joe rogan
Keep it up there.
Where are they getting this from?
Payscale.com.
unidentified
1,200 people from all over the United States.
gavin mcinnes
You'll get totally different numbers.
The teachers' lobby is the most powerful union in the world.
They fund both sides on Capitol Hill.
joe rogan
So it's a conspiracy?
This is like black helicopters, and 9-11 was an inside job, and then teachers were really getting millions of dollars.
gavin mcinnes
They act like the mafia.
Like, you will get your windows smashed when you fuck with the, what do they call it?
The NEA?
joe rogan
So you guys, anyway, back to the Mark Maron thing, you guys had a problem with the word systemic and bat crazy.
Sorry, bat shit crazy.
gavin mcinnes
So he said there's not just one thing.
joe rogan
Right.
I agree with him in that sense.
gavin mcinnes
I go, yes, there is just one thing.
joe rogan
And what is that one thing?
gavin mcinnes
Make it possible to fire a fucking public school teacher.
joe rogan
That would help.
That would certainly help.
gavin mcinnes
It helps the end.
And that happens in Harlem with charter schools.
They can get fired.
And Harlem's doing awesome with that just one little thing.
joe rogan
But what did he get upset about?
It was the transphobia.
gavin mcinnes
Well, I'm guessing that that's why he didn't like the show.
joe rogan
Oh, just that?
gavin mcinnes
As far as verifiable, it was in the tank, the show, and then when my transphobia controversy exploded.
joe rogan
Because you wrote that article.
gavin mcinnes
His people, whatever, said, we're not airing this show because judging by your views on trans people, the interview is now incomplete.
joe rogan
Hmm.
gavin mcinnes
So I guess it was like saying, we interviewed the head of the KKK about fruits and vegetables, and then found out later he's the head of the KKK.
This would look stupid to put out talking about food the whole time.
Or say I shot the president after.
You'd go, wait a minute, we talked to the guy who killed the president and we didn't mention shooting the president.
joe rogan
So because of the fact that your article came out after the interview, he couldn't just release the interview because it didn't discuss this very important topic.
gavin mcinnes
That's his side, yes.
joe rogan
That seems like it's not that important a topic except to those people or if you're talking about that subject.
I don't think that the subject of transgender people is like an integral part of who you are.
gavin mcinnes
Or call me.
Or have your people call me.
And I'm in LA all the time.
joe rogan
Yeah, do an addent.
gavin mcinnes
Say, update.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
Or say, hey, I didn't know you were this weird.
You don't think it's cool to cut your cock off?
Let's discuss.
joe rogan
But do you not think it's cool?
Do you think people should be able to do whatever they want?
gavin mcinnes
Yes, but we're getting back to this gay marriage thing.
When you normalize the transgendered, we end up in a situation where kids are taking hormone blockers to prevent puberty.
We're clapping like fucking losers when a little boy, a little gay boy, gets female estrogen.
joe rogan
But when should it be okay?
Like with Bailey Jay.
You look at Bailey J, doesn't she look like that's like?
gavin mcinnes
Bailey Jay is a mentally ill gay man.
joe rogan
A mentally ill gay man.
gavin mcinnes
Whom I like.
joe rogan
Uh-huh.
unidentified
Great guy.
joe rogan
What's mentally ill?
gavin mcinnes
He doesn't think he's a man.
That's a gender dysphoria that is documented as a mental disorder.
The thing I like about him is he can cut his tits off when he realizes what's going on and be normal.
There's no old Bailey J, you realize.
There's no like, I am Bailey Jay.
unidentified
I've been gardening all day or my night and shining all.
joe rogan
No, they don't.
What do they do?
They ice themselves.
gavin mcinnes
They commit suicide.
They fucking go back, become a mess head, and they get stabbed in a bad drug deal.
joe rogan
Is that they remove some of our money?
gavin mcinnes
Just be a fag.
It's almost like.
joe rogan
But they want to be a woman.
gavin mcinnes
You can't be a woman.
You can't be a bat.
You can't be a giraffe.
Becoming a woman is not something you get off a shelf.
What's the matter with homosexuals?
joe rogan
But they don't want to be homosexual.
Like a lot of them, like Katie, he's a perfect example.
The one that we were talking about, the MMA fighter, she's now a lesbian.
She still likes women.
Like she was a man for 30 years and then became a woman who still likes women.
gavin mcinnes
She is a wildly mentally disturbed gay.
Wait, straight.
joe rogan
Straight.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
gavin mcinnes
She's a fucking crazy straight dude.
He's a crazy man.
And that's a great example.
I'm glad you brought that up because you're saying, what's your problem?
Why do you hate all this shit?
And I go, obviously, I don't fucking care.
Like, if you're on a mountain and you do something to yourself, you can cut your face off.
There was just a woman in the news.
She decided she wanted to be blind.
And she had a physician put shit in her chemicals in her eyes.
She's blind.
joe rogan
Fucking insane.
gavin mcinnes
I don't want to make that illegal, but I want to also say, let's not normalize this because someone who is kind of dumb and crazy and thinks they want to be blind, now you've made it okay.
So the MMA fight is a perfect example of the problem with this whole live and let live thing because now we have a dude with tits and a fake cunt kicking the shit out of chicks.
joe rogan
Well, there was a really funny time where this guy was, when Rachel Doazell came out as transracial, this guy was supporting transracial, and he was right, but he was joking.
He was trolling.
And there were so many people that were arguing back and forth on his Twitter page.
He's a comic, I guess, from England.
And, you know, he was calling it wrong skin, hashtag wrong skin.
But it was hilarious to watch these semantics arguments.
Here's one that you'll find funny.
I got in an argument with someone about the MMA thing and about the woman who was a man for 30 years that became a woman.
And she said, she was always a woman.
And I said, really?
I said, even when she was a man having sex with another woman and making a baby.
And she said, even then.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, I said that.
joe rogan
I'm like, that's adorable.
gavin mcinnes
I said that about Caitlin Jenner.
So that means Chris Jenner was raped.
Because she thought she was having sex with a man.
joe rogan
Right.
Deception.
gavin mcinnes
And it was a woman.
joe rogan
Deception.
gavin mcinnes
So that's a crime, I assume.
joe rogan
It is in New Jersey.
gavin mcinnes
Especially in the definition of rape today where if you regret it, it's rape.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
And if you look at him funny after it's over, like that was bullshit.
That's rape.
gavin mcinnes
God, if regretting sex was rape, I would be doing 10 life sentences.
joe rogan
Well, you know the whole thing that's going on with drinking, where the man always gets accused of rape if two people are drinking together.
gavin mcinnes
Right.
joe rogan
If the woman is drunk...
But if a woman is drunk and she has sex with a man, apparently she cannot consent.
gavin mcinnes
That's another great example of what we're talking about, because in the MMA situation, you lied and said women are men, and now you have a man beating a shit.
joe rogan
Well, she didn't lie.
She didn't disclose the fact that she used to be a man.
That's how she looked at it.
She said it's a medical condition.
unidentified
Exactly.
gavin mcinnes
So you're talking about it.
So for the first day, you fucking got a chick beaten up.
And then with the drinking thing, you go, wait a minute.
So all drunk sex is rape.
Now we have, like, there was a woman who was kicked off a flight for joining the Mile High Club.
joe rogan
Really?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, because she was belligerent and she was fucking some dude in the bathroom and screaming, oh, oh, oh, like wasted.
joe rogan
My kind of girl.
gavin mcinnes
And then she gets in a fight with the staff, the stewards or whatever they're called these days, the waitresses in the sky.
And she gets arrested because she was fistfighting them and screaming.
And you go, well, wait a minute.
You were raped.
You were drunk.
joe rogan
You were drunk.
gavin mcinnes
You were drunk having sex, so you should be charging that guy.
And when you reinvent the system and change all the definitions, you have to take into account the victims here.
joe rogan
Like, well, they've kind of abandoned the alcohol thing outside of colleges.
Feminists were pushing that for a few years ago.
They were trying to push it nationwide, but then it became preposterous because you realize everyone's a fucking rapist because the whole country is filled with rapists because socially people drink and that's how they wind up fucking.
So the people under the influence that were having sex, it's like 80%.
It's something.
It's something nuts.
gavin mcinnes
That's why we're here.
I mean, I wouldn't be alive if drunk sex was rape or illegal.
But when you do all this shit and you reboot the system, what you're actually doing is trivializing reality.
And if you say drunk sex is rape, some fucking woman who was raped at knife point by a guy in a ski mask is now your peer.
You've just trivialized that.
And when you say Rachel Dolezal is black, you've trivialized every black person's experience who grew up with real racism.
And when you say that Caitlin Jenner is a woman, you've trivialized womanhood.
Now, like this woman who gave birth and had, you know, she's a grandmother and there's a family reunion and she's the matriarch that basically built all these 60 people, she's the same as this fucking guy who put some fake tits, Bailey J. You've, that's sexist.
You've trivialized it.
joe rogan
Well, it's certainly a weird thing.
I don't know if you've trivialized it because I don't think it diminishes real women in any way, shape, or form.
gavin mcinnes
It really does.
joe rogan
Not in my eyes.
gavin mcinnes
Okay, I'm a woman.
We have been suffering.
We are oppressed.
We get raped.
And then some dude in a wig goes, yeah, it's fucking insane.
We are getting harassed on the street.
And she's looking at him going, uh, well, I was actually really raped.
So was I. I had drunk sex.
Well, you just shat on her whole experience with your bullshit wig.
joe rogan
I don't know if you do, but I see what you're saying.
I see what you're saying.
gavin mcinnes
I just.
unidentified
Why don't I put on Black Looks?
She's a fan of pastress and go on the Million Man March and go, yo, this shit is outrageous, man.
joe rogan
Well, what about the guy who's one of the guys from Black Lives Matter?
gavin mcinnes
Sean King.
joe rogan
Sean King, who's white?
gavin mcinnes
Like, I feel like I'm the same liberal kid I was when I was a punk teenager.
joe rogan
Right.
gavin mcinnes
I don't like Rachel Dolezal and Sean King because they are racist.
joe rogan
Racist?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
But they identify with black people.
gavin mcinnes
They are trivializing the black experience.
I don't like Islam because they're sexist.
I don't like fucking feminists because they deprive women of the joy of having babies and they trivialize what it is to be a real woman.
Their whole sort of anti-Southern Bell thing is anti-woman.
I'm still a feminist, anti-racist, fucking punk rocker.
joe rogan
You're a feminist?
gavin mcinnes
I'm a feminist in the sense that I, as Donald Trump says, I adore women.
I like women.
joe rogan
I think that's the definition of a feminist, right?
gavin mcinnes
A feminist is someone who attaches merit to femininity, to women.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's not how they use it, though.
gavin mcinnes
I know.
Today it means you're a feminist if you think men are women.
You think women are badass and kick-ass.
They're in kick-ass too, and they're doing circle kicks.
joe rogan
You know what my favorite is?
When they say that if you are a feminist, there's no need for any other sort of equality, gender equality issue, because feminism addresses all of it.
So there's no need to have men's rights issues because once feminism is completely achieved, once female rights are equal to men's rights, then they will address all the other rights.
gavin mcinnes
I actually, I talked to a feminist about that, and I said, okay, so you must hate the amount of prison rape going on with men.
And she goes, yes, we do.
And I go, I can't even conceive of feminists standing outside a prison with placards going, stop the raping of these guys.
joe rogan
Well, the problem is they're being raped by guys.
Like when they say that more men are being raped by them.
Well, I think a lot of when you're looking at these really unattractive women that happen just so happen to be feminists.
Again, we're not saying that all feminists are unattractive, but I have friends, and I'm sure you do too, that are just ugly dudes, and they grow to hate women because they just associate women with rejection and feeling bad.
They're just getting just constantly shit on by women, like, fuck these bitches.
And they develop that sort of mentality.
It just seems to be like a natural course of progression that some really unattractive women would be like really hostile to men too, because all their life they've been rejected and made to feel terrible by men.
gavin mcinnes
Right.
Yeah, I agree.
But I don't understand why they don't try.
joe rogan
Try what?
gavin mcinnes
Grow your hair long, wear high-heel shoes.
joe rogan
Maybe they don't.
gavin mcinnes
Be around at last call, and I'll fuck you.
joe rogan
But here's the thing.
A really hot chick with purple hair and it's short and she's got a fucking banging body, I'll fuck the shit out of her.
You wouldn't even care.
You wouldn't even care.
You'd be like, you sexy bitch.
gavin mcinnes
Like, we don't like short hair.
We don't like broken stocks.
joe rogan
I used to date this girl.
She had a shaved head.
She was hot as fuck.
gavin mcinnes
When you fuck them from behind, it looks like a dude.
unidentified
It does.
gavin mcinnes
I don't like that.
That's right.
joe rogan
He's a very small dude with a big ass.
unidentified
Fucking a fat 12-year-old boy.
gavin mcinnes
We have, women talk about unattainable expectations from men.
That's gays and women coming up with those expectations.
We're pretty cool.
Like, grow your hair long, wear high-heel shoes.
Even if you're fat, put on some lingerie and we'll work it out.
joe rogan
Do you think that this is what's going on with a lot of this is that there's a lot of people that are, they have these standards that they feel like they're supposed to uphold or they're supposed to live up to.
But now they have a voice.
They have a voice because of the internet, because they find like-minded people online, and they get really active in those communities and it gives them a sense of community and a sense of purpose that they never had before.
gavin mcinnes
Totally.
Yeah, they don't really believe it.
I saw some feminist girl, you know, they hold their stupid fucking signs.
joe rogan
I love those signs.
gavin mcinnes
And the sign said, I'm sorry, my breasts aren't big enough.
And she had like pretty decent tits.
And I'm thinking, I'll fucking come on your tits.
Like, I don't care.
joe rogan
That is feminism right there.
gavin mcinnes
I've met maybe one guy in my life who likes fake tits.
I dated a girl who had fake tits, and she sat me down.
We had a talk where she told me I had to pay more attention to her breasts because I would be like, face, neck, shoulders.
joe rogan
She sat you down and had a talk.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, because she's like, what did she say?
You need to pay more attention to my breasts.
joe rogan
Wow.
gavin mcinnes
But I was like, my dad could have those.
I can't get into those.
I can feel the seam.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, the old ones especially, they're really good now.
They have some new ones now that are like, they're a solid instead of a bag of water.
Now it's like a silicon mushy thing where it feels exactly like breast tissue, allegedly.
gavin mcinnes
I like your shitty tits.
joe rogan
You like regular natural tits?
gavin mcinnes
It's like my buddy Trevor said.
He goes, when I was 20, I dated a girl with droopy tits and I hated it, but I sure wouldn't mind fucking with them right now.
Like a girl doggy style and they're hanging down like fucking bags and swinging.
I'd like that.
I couldn't look at them where I'd come.
joe rogan
Wow.
Really?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
When you get older, your spectrum of attractiveness increases and you're like, oh, I'm fucking from behind.
I can sort of smell poo.
I love it.
unidentified
Oh, really?
gavin mcinnes
Just a faint whiff.
Yeah, don't get like a woman's ass in your face?
joe rogan
I like a woman who washes that ass first.
gavin mcinnes
Gross.
joe rogan
I know too much about bacteria.
gavin mcinnes
Oh, that's like a juice thing living in L.A. all this time.
Yeah, you've taken on their paranoia about drinks.
Like a sid on a shit.
joe rogan
I was showing you my friend's staph infection that almost killed him.
gavin mcinnes
I want queefs.
I don't break for queefs.
You know, like when you fucking go and you hear that and they sort of want to stop?
joe rogan
I don't break for it either.
gavin mcinnes
That's like I'm driving down the highway and someone goes, hey.
joe rogan
Okay, let me ask you this.
Do you eat pussy when they're on the period?
gavin mcinnes
I used to, but as I got older, no.
joe rogan
I don't give a fuck.
gavin mcinnes
I used to fuck chicks with Shane a lot.
joe rogan
How dare you?
gavin mcinnes
We would accidentally touch dicks sometimes.
Like one time I was.
joe rogan
Was it like that operation game?
gavin mcinnes
I thought I was fucking a girl in her ass and it went into her cunt and actually went into his condom.
joe rogan
Inside.
gavin mcinnes
I'm looking down at it.
joe rogan
How loose is his condom?
What is it?
A fucking trash bag?
gavin mcinnes
I was harder than him.
It makes sense.
Path of least resistance.
So I'm looking down at that.
joe rogan
You got inside his condom.
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
So you're using the condom.
gavin mcinnes
No one ever believes me about this.
joe rogan
Container so that you guys could rub dicks together.
gavin mcinnes
That wasn't the plan, but I was like, I'm fucking this bitch's ass.
And I look down and I see an asshole.
And I'm like, how many assholes does this woman have?
I'm in at least one of them.
And then I reach down and I feel a condom.
joe rogan
How drunk were you guys?
gavin mcinnes
Not drunk at all.
joe rogan
Well, how did you not know where you're putting your dick?
Don't you look?
What are you looking at at the moment?
gavin mcinnes
You're fucking on the ass.
You're pushing and pushing and pushing, and then you sort of feel...
Yeah.
So you go, oh, that must have gone in the A-hole, the one that I was pushing me.
joe rogan
What's this girl doing the whole time?
Going, what the hell just happened?
It's like Donald Sutherland, the invasion of the body snatchers.
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, well, she's got two dicks in her vagina.
She's fucking, whoa, buster.
joe rogan
Listen.
gavin mcinnes
She was from Malta.
joe rogan
I hate to wrap this up on a high note like that, but we're out of time.
gavin mcinnes
You don't want to hear the end of the story?
joe rogan
Oh, sure, please.
gavin mcinnes
So anyway, I've reached down.
I go, I didn't have a condom.
I have a condom.
And then I pull out and I bust a nut on her butt.
And people go, but you touched a dick.
But when you're doing that kind of stuff, it's like two mobsters digging a hole for a body and their shovels clink.
You don't fucking care.
You're at work.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
I understand.
gavin mcinnes
I see.
joe rogan
I'm glad you wrapped that up nice and tight.
How can people see your show on the Anthony Kumiya show?
gavin mcinnes
AnthonyKamiya.com.
If you're especially thorough, Anthony.com slash Gavin.
joe rogan
Is it available in audio form as well?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah, it is.
And they also do a best of every week that's free.
And that has Legion of Skanks and Anthony Kamiya in my show.
And I do a column at Tacky Magnetic Commons.
I love Big J. Big Jay is fucking hilarious.
One time he was talking shit about me, saying Gavin says a lot of shit, but I shot him down once.
And I knew they were nearby.
So I got my car.
joe rogan
And he said he shot you down?
gavin mcinnes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like in what way?
gavin mcinnes
He nailed one of my arguments he pointed out.
joe rogan
So you drove over there.
gavin mcinnes
They're like, you son of a bitch.
And I was like, what?
I hear that all the time.
What was the thing?
And I'm sorry, I can't remember the exact thing.
He's like, you said da-da-da-da-da, and then later you said da-da-da-da-da.
And that shuts you down.
And I was like, that is actually exactly what happened.
unidentified
Got back in the car and went home and nailed.
joe rogan
It happens.
All right.
Thank you, Gavin.
gavin mcinnes
Thanks for having me.
This was fun.
joe rogan
Appreciate it, brother.
Thank you very much, man.
Thank you.
All right, Gavin McGinnis, ladies and gentlemen.
We'll be back.
See you soon.
Bye-bye.
Big kiss.
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Much love.
Bye-bye.
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