Charles C. Johnson critiques progressive narratives, like the debunked Rolling Stone UVA gang-rape hoax (2014), where Sabrina Rubin Erdley fabricated claims, and the politicized "Mattress Girl" case, exposing media bias and false accusations. He dismisses systemic blame for urban violence—e.g., Baltimore’s riots—while Rogan pushes for structural reforms like education and policing over reparations. They mock Starbucks’ Race Together campaign as inept, debate oxytocin-driven false claims, and question tribalism in modern activism, ending with Rogan’s May 22nd Las Vegas tour and upcoming episodes featuring Sam Harris and Rich Roll. [Automatically generated summary]
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All right.
My guest today is a young man, a very intelligent young man.
And his name is Charles Johnson.
And Charles Johnson, very controversial.
When I said that I was going to have him on, oh my God, I got a lot of fucking hate from people.
But that's just a part of the program of life.
He is a journalist and he is a seeker of truth.
And he's trying to expose things in a way that make some folks uncomfortable.
Whether they're right or whether they're wrong, you're going to have to figure that out for yourself.
But I enjoyed talking to him.
So without any further ado, please welcome Mr. Charles Johnson.
Look at these almost entirely black communities that are ridiculously impoverished.
And then look at this cycle and say, all right, there's got to be a way this can be fixed.
This has got to be a way this can be mitigated.
There's got to be a way you can, I mean, a lot of people say that that sounds like socialism.
That's all well and good.
But until someone steps in and does something with these incredibly impoverished areas, you're going to have this repeating cycle over and over again of people who were born in poverty in crime-ridden streets that have children that were born in poverty and crime-ridden streets.
And occasionally, an athlete breaks through, and occasionally a comedian breaks through, or a rapper, or a musician, or someone escapes this cycle.
But most people do not.
And that is a symptomatic problem with these areas.
I mean, you have a symptom that needs to be addressed.
You have a huge issue that needs to be addressed.
And that's, if you wanted to say that there should be reparations for slavery, that should be the reparations.
Not like individuals getting a check.
That's not going to fix shit.
You got to go in and figure out how to make these areas safer, how to make communities safer, how to make community centers and give people counseling and better education.
So there's this thing called the Shaker Heights effect, where they found that even wealthy black suburbs in Shaker Heights, Ohio, still don't really do all that well.
The Asian kids still do better academically.
I don't know.
I mean, I used to be one of these guys that thinks that we could just solve the problems of the ghetto and move everyone out and everything would work out.
But I think there's something to be said that some people like living there.
There's kind of like an undercurrent of our society that digs the poverty stuff, that digs the gangster style.
I think a lot of the people that do, it's because it's familiar.
It's how they grew up.
I mean, I think if you took that same child from birth and, you know, trans, I mean, if you, if you could, obviously couldn't do it, but if you could live two completely separate lives, if you could have two of the exact same people, and one of them is born to a really happy, educated black couple, and they live in a nice suburb of Atlanta where they go to great schools, and the other one is in Baltimore.
And you get to see the same child develop with different stimuli and different environment.
And one of them is like, fuck, I like the ghetto.
And the other one is like, man, I'm glad I don't live in Baltimore.
You know, I saw, so, I mean, I was the guy who sued to get Michael Brown's juvenile records.
Like, we sued unsuccessfully.
I think we went all the way to the Supreme Court of Missouri.
Like, I like fought this one really hard because, like, people should know what these communities are actually like.
Like, Canfield Apartments, where Brown was from, is like a fucked up hellhole.
And, like, the more we're just, we got to be honest about these places.
And, like, we need people to actually see them.
So, whenever we get these riots, it's like, on the one hand, like, it's sad.
And, like, you know, I'm obviously worried about my family that's there.
But, like, on the other hand, it's like, it's such a great illustration of like reality, you know, like of like, you know, forget all of your progressive social justice nonsense.
And like, in the final analysis, when the shit goes down, you either want to have a gun, you want to know a Korean who's got a gun, like you're in LA, right?
Or you want to like, you know, take care of, take care of business.
And people don't, people don't get that.
This whole like, fuck the police mentality is really causing some serious stuff to go wrong in our society right now because people are starting to have this like mindset that like cops are evil, that they're predatory, that they're dangerous.
And it's obvious why the Obama administration is pushing it because they get these consent decrees in where they can basically rewrite the policing rules and essentially take over the policing departments.
So it's obvious like it's a power grab for like the control of these cities.
And that's why like I think we should be very, very cautious about how far we push it because, I mean, yeah, there are some messed up cops and I think, but you know, you have to walk a day in these people's shoes.
Like I did a ride along with the LAPD, which I highly recommend.
And there's some stuff that they have to deal with just like on a routine basis that's pretty wild, like even here in LA, you know?
I think the issue is not that cops are bad and that, you know, we need to clean up the police department.
The issue is we need to figure out a way to make society safer for everybody involved, including the people that are stuck in those places like Brown's apartment complex and the neighborhood that he lived in.
And, you know, growing up in that neighborhood, man, you're going to be fucked.
Right, but if Big Mike was living in, you know, San Francisco in a really nice neighborhood, progressive parents and went to good schools from the time he was a baby, he would be a different human being.
But like, even if you look at like, I mean, if you just look at like the numbers for black on white crime, violence, and all that stuff, it's like, it's pretty, it's pretty shocking, even among relatively affluent areas.
You know, it's, I mean, you know, there's been a lot of discussion, like, is this innate?
Is this like just something we have to deal with?
Like, there's this whole debate about the MAOA gene, which is like this gene that black American, you know, black Africans have, like much, it's like a proclivity to violence that they have.
You know, I recommend people Google it and do their own research.
It's like a big debate about whether or not, but basically like what it is, is it's, you know, if we, if you think about like, you know, kind of white European Asian ancestors as we kind of moved out of Africa, like aggression and violence was kind of less necessary because we were like farmers and stuff.
I mean, you look at all the violence and murder and death that's been done by the military, and you think about how many people involved in the military are white and how many people making the decisions are white.
I mean, ultimately, that's white people causing violence.
Like the industrialized kind of like Naziification or like of like the industrial size, like military industrial complex is like a serious threat, no doubt about it.
But if you like, there's a book by this guy, Steven Pinker, called like a hit about violence.
And he's basically like, look, if you just look throughout human history, violence is actually going down.
Because like back in the day, we'd be like in tribal societies and we would go and beat the shit out of this tribe and take their stuff.
And most of the violence was like we'd spring up on people and then just butcher them and steal their women or whatever.
And that was like the way politics was back in the world.
This fake rape culture that they're trying to promote.
Yeah.
Well, I think that if you looked at these people, I mean, if you're saying that as a whole, that white folks are generally slowly becoming less and less violent, whereas there's a certain percentage, whatever it is, of black people that contain this gene.
Look at what black people have to deal with as opposed to white people, like what we were talking about with Canada.
Canada has no black ghetto.
If you're growing up in a ghetto is, I mean, you're fucked from birth.
I mean, you really are.
There's really not much as far as options to get out.
And the constant inundation of negative influences is inescapable.
We never hear about people being like, you know, I started a great small business in the ghetto and the ghetto is, you know, my corner of the ghetto has now got Starbucks on every corner.
Yeah, and you look at like, you know, like my in-law's family, they're Asian immigrants.
You know, my wife's an immigrant from, you know, and you look at like the kind of neighborhoods they move into to kind of like, you know, run the corner store or run like The Quickie Mart, or whatever.
Terribly racist to say that, but nonetheless, it's like there's some truth in the stereotype.
And then you look at, like, welcome to America.
We, you know, the Democratic Party, we love immigrants.
And yet, if you build your little corner of the American dream, we're not going to protect you when the riots start.
And you look at a lot of these businesses that were like burned out in Ferguson.
And they were like, you know, a nice guy from India coming to this country, putting away some money for his family, and yet his property was destroyed.
And there's a whole bunch of right-wing people on GoFundMe trying to raise money to basically make these people whole.
It's kind of wild.
But I think the technology plus the history of violence, plus the ghetto politics and the urban policy, I think all that's combining right now to create this massive craziness.
I mean, everyone's got iPhones.
Everyone's like, it's like flash mobs meets the real mobs.
It was like a Black Lives Matter protest in Boston and they shut down the freeway.
And the guy who was running that was this hedge fund.
He's the son of some wealthy family.
And it's always these super liberal white people who are trying to strike back at the system.
And you look at all those people who are like, I mean, it sounds like kind of silly to say this, but if you're delayed from work for like 30 minutes or an hour, that has a serious impact on your whole day.
It has an impact on your job.
I mean, let's say you're trying to huff it to get to work.
unidentified
Well, hey, man, protests are not supposed to be convenient, man.
I think the idea that these hedge fund guys realize they were born into this privileged life and they want to somehow or another give back or make an impact, I love that.
I think that's great.
I just don't think that's the way to do it.
And I think that they get organized like, fuck this system, fuck the, yeah, and everybody wants to put a backpack on and run through the street.
That is not how you change things.
It's just not.
It's certainly how you make a little bit of a stink.
You make a ripple.
You get some cameras on you.
And I would hope that some of this stuff will stop some cops from shooting kids when they don't have to.
I mean, I think there are times where a police officer is saving someone else's life or trying to protect their own life and they have to use violent force.
That's a fact.
But there's a lot of times where cops shoot people, where they shouldn't fucking shoot people.
And you know it and I know it.
We've all seen the videos, and there's no denying it.
The social justice warrior types, they're basically reflecting the establishment view of the colleges, right?
And what are these colleges?
They're basically like giant money pits with have large endowments who then invest in, you know, all kinds of things like in, I mean, in, you know, if you look at like all the investments they're doing, like fossil fuels, you're looking at all the investments they do in like, I mean, colleges are so much a part of the system, right?
And what they're doing is the social justice workers are taking their crazy nonsense that they're learning in schools and they're trying to imply it to like the rest of society.
But if we did stuff like, if right away what we did was we said, look, any of these college endowments, they have to pay out like 5% of their, you know, of their tuition like we do with foundations, right?
Immediately college is free for a lot of people.
People aren't in massive student debt.
But instead, the colleges fight for their privilege.
So I think what I'm trying to say is that basically these people are basically the shock troops for the elite without even knowing that they're shock troops for the elite.
If you think about like, if we talk like the rape culture stuff, right?
It's like a perfect example of this.
People are trying to advance a narrative about women and about society.
And it's a power grab.
I mean, it's really as simple as that.
Like they're trying to end due process rights for young men on campus.
They're trying to basically give a, you know, if you don't create a Title IX compliant college, you know, what we're going to do is we're going to sick our trial lawyers on you and sue you.
Well, that's a real problem with academics in general because a lot of people who are academics, they went to college, they went to graduate school, they got their doctorate, they got their PhD, whatever they got, and then they started teaching, and they never entered the real world.
And they live in this world of extreme liberal values, extreme liberal biases.
I'm really mad at myself that I just said it because I am just as right as I am left.
I mean, I am pro-gay rights, pro-gay marriage, pro-transgender rights, transgender marriage, pro-abortion.
I'm pro-choice.
I'm pro.
I'm so left in so many ways.
I'm against the drug war.
I'm against privatized prisons.
I'm pro-legalization of drugs.
I'm against police violence.
But I'm also in the NRA.
I also think that military is important.
I think if you go to parts of the world and see how fucked up it is and you don't think you need to have a military, well, you're being a child because we don't live in utopia yet.
We're not in a time in the world where it's safe.
We're not.
We haven't reached some age of enlightenment.
We're on some strange gradual progression pace to one day be free of all the ape violence that lives in our genetics.
I mean, if you look at what's happening in Baltimore, it seems like a lot of the times our kind of primal instincts and our kind of violent stuff seems like it's lurking just beneath that thin veneer of civilization.
So basically, there's this idea that Starbucks had, which was that like the future of the country, their view is that we're going to be a much more racial society, which is probably true, like, you know, diversity and all that, people moving in, immigration and so forth.
And so their view is that we need to get ahead of it and we need to talk about race because that's like a big issue.
And their attitude was like, if we get people together talking about stuff in coffee shops, it will be like, you know, it's like the old salons of the 1850s or something.
People are going to be like debating issues and politics and all this.
And it just totally backfired because people were not having it.
They were just making fun of it.
They were making fun of the guy who was the head of it.
No, what they'll do is they'll time people on like how long does it take you to do this coffee like when they're doing the training, you know, the training stuff.
And they want you to basically, you know, do it faster.
But apparently your experience is that it hasn't sort of worked out.
And he was saying like, God bless you to people right before they're getting on their flights.
And the TSA people are like, no, you can't say that anymore to people.
And he's like, well, you made me swear an oath to like, you know, under God to like, you know, like, why can't I just, he's not even like a super Christian guy.
What kind of education in the subtle nuances of race relations are you giving these people before you have them communicate publicly on behalf of your company while an employee?
Like I couldn't think of a more poorly thought-out idea executed by a giant corporation.
I just think that if you just, I think he's probably just trying to be like a, you know, because he's a joke writer and he's like a one-word, one-line, you know, impact sort of a guy.
Well, you know, in fairness, like, I get some shit on Twitter because like, so I kept getting all this stuff, like, you're anti-immigrant, you're all this stuff, because I was like tweeting out stuff like, hey, we should be kind of careful about this amnesty stuff.
And I was like, yeah, I hate immigrants so much I married one.
And then all these people were like, all these people were like, you're using your Asian wife, you know, to like protect you or whatever.
And then I just hashtagged it, my Asian wife, you know, and I was like, my Asian wife, yeah, like I was just like making fun of it.
And then people thought I, like, the social justice warriors thought I was serious.
So like all of like the Asian social justice warriors started being like, you know, my Asian wife is like a cultural like appropriation, you know, whatever nonsense they were spewing.
And I remember just sitting back, like, yeah, as my, as my wife and I were like having, like, I think we were having like omelets or something in the morning, like just sitting on, you know, like, and when you, you know, when you wake up on a Sunday and you're still in your pajamas or whatever, it's like, holy shit, honey, I think I accidentally started a movement.
So, like, people like my wife came to this country from Indonesia.
Can't really swim from there.
It's kind of a long way.
And, like, they waited in line.
They, like, followed all the rules and all this stuff.
And then we've got all these people who come into this country illegally from like, you know, Mexico south of the border just because it's easier to get here.
And there are a lot of folks who want to make them citizens.
The Democrats want to do it because they get, you know, lots of voters.
The Republicans want to do it because they get cheap labor, you know, and basically drive down wages.
Some Republicans want to do it.
And I'm just like, you know, it's probably not a good idea to like, you know, give away citizenship like this because we have a lot of people who desperately want to get in here.
And it's kind of like, it's kind of racist in a way.
It's kind of like pro-Mexican in a way if you think about it, just like logically.
Because, you know, there are people from Africa, from Europe, whatever who want to be in.
He probably has some like Alibaba dude, you know, who like, no, seriously though, like, you know, they have like some Mexican guy who's like the front man for him that runs his thing.
But like there are all these anti-gringo rules down there.
Like if you were if you live down there like and you're like in cartel land and you go to the US and you get paid like 15, you know, 15 times more money than you would otherwise.
I mean, why the real question I have is like, given how shitty things are in Mexico, why are so many of them still there?
If you really stop and think about the idea of going in a van illegally across a border that's got a fence and you have a baby with you and you're just hoping for a better life.
And, you know, the real problem with even the term social justice warrior is that they're aggressive.
Like the thing about social justice is like, what do you really want?
You want peace.
Guess what the worst way to get peace is?
Being an asshole.
Oh, totally.
Being an asshole will almost...
In a lot of ways, because they're about doxing people and aggressively pursuing actions against them, trying to get people fired because they don't share their ideology.
So there's a story that runs in Rolling Stone magazine.
And what happens is that it's basically this story.
It's written by this woman, Sabrina Rubin Erdley.
And the story is about a gang rape, like a brutal gang rape that occurs at UVA, University of Virginia.
And basically, the story has an anecdote in there about this girl, Jackie, who was apparently raped by it was either like five guys or seven guys.
And this anecdote was like such a big deal among like the rape activist types that it was actually used by this chick, Emily Renda, who's a UVA, former UVA student.
And it was like used before, it was testified before Congress.
So it was like, you know, under oath, like brought into the congressional record.
And I was just, you know, the, the, the gang rape was so ridiculous to me because it was apparently like over hours.
And I was like, what college dude has like the stamina to go for hours?
So that was like the first, no, I mean, like, legit though.
Like that was like the first tip off to me.
And then the other thing too is it was like so graphic, so violent.
It was like apparently at a party.
So I was like, all right, there's a lot of stuff here that you can just kind of like tease apart.
And then what happened was I figured out the girl's name.
Like I went through and researched, like, you know, talked to some people at UVA, got like a list of all the kind of campus feminists and kind of just cross-referenced it.
Spent a long time kind of finding it.
Anyways, I found her name, you know, his name's Jackie Coakley.
And I was like, I published the name of her.
And I knew that all these like people would freak out on Twitter about it and like freak out in the media.
But something like 150 to 200 newspapers said that I outed a rape victim.
And like my own mother called me up like complaining about it.
And I was like, mom, like, trust me, like, this is not what it appears to be.
And by the way, this newspaper still haven't like done retractions or anything.
And these are like U.S. News and World Report.
I mean, all these things.
And they all got me thrown off Twitter for like outing this rape victim.
She, I mean, I put up some videos on my site at Got News, but basically her very first story she ever did for Rolling Stone was an interview of some, or a profile of a country singer where she got a lot of facts just basically wrong.
And then she started fabricating.
And she's actually talked about it on video about how she's gotten these things wrong.
So her entire career basically starts as winning the College Journalism Award from Rolling Stone while she was at UPenn working with Glass, Stephen Glass, the guy who was famous fabricator, The New Republic.
And she basically, her college, her career, her entire life is at Rolling Stone.
And she was talking about things like how she likes to shop around for victims.
I mean, these are like verbatim quotes, how she has a good BS detector.
I mean, I know Michael Hastings was a great reporter and everything, but people call bullshit on some of his stuff too.
And obviously, we can't check now because he's dead, right?
But like, it makes you wonder about all the other reports that they do there.
Because if they're, if they're so falling down on this one story, and apparently, like, you know, she's gotten other stuff wrong on other, you know, other stories as well, not just the one I mentioned.
But, like, I wonder what, you know, if their standards are so lax for her, what the standards are like for the other writers, too.
And so there's a lot of people that may be less scrupulous that are looking at that and they're saying, if I can get some of that juice, if I can find a juicy story that I can cling to, I can also become a star.
Like for me, the whole point of being a journalism, you know, being in journalism is to basically tell stories that no one else will tell.
Because first of all, it gives you a monopoly, right?
If no one's talking about a topic, then you own that topic.
And then second of all, there are a lot of taboos in our society, like race, rape, military-industrial complex, drugs.
I mean, you could basically figure them a genetic differences in intelligence.
I mean, that's a big one that we're not supposed to talk about.
And for me, what's weird about this is that journalism increasingly is used to justify the state, justify power, justify like, you know, basically to push agendas that then become law.
And for me, that's kind of like not the point.
The point is to give the finger to the man.
The point is to basically be against the system.
So I'm identified as being on the right, and I have some right-wing views.
I have some left-wing views, but no one seems to ask me about those.
But I'll do stories going after corrupt Republicans.
Like I did a story, voter fraud within a Republican primary in Mississippi that was like ugly.
But the thing is, is that people want, what they want is they want you to reflect their tribal views and their political views.
And they don't really want the truth.
So like they will fucking hate you, even especially when you're right.
So like for years I was talking about this guy, Menendez, U.S. Senator, who's going down for corruption.
For years I was talking about him.
And I had all the other journalists make fun of me.
Like, you're just a blogger.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Even though I won awards that these guys competed for back in the day, I just didn't want to be in corporate journalism anymore because I thought it was too restrictive.
And these guys are assholes.
Like you have so much of the culture right now.
They just go after anyone that's new and different.
And it's creating a narrower and narrower and narrower space for people to let their freak flags fly.
And I think this is really, really dangerous for our society.
And we used to be a society that was like, yo, this guy, you know, he's, you know, he's a crazy black supremacist, but, you know, he makes really good bagels.
And I kind of like going and hanging out with him.
You know, like, we used to be a society that was okay with a little freakiness among people.
And now it's like you all have to think a certain way.
You have to behave in a certain way.
And it's like, what could be like, what could be more like anti-liberal?
Dude, the thing that makes me the most excited is when I meet somebody who like thinks something totally outlandish that I don't know and I start reading it.
I'm like, holy shit, this guy's right.
Like that's cool.
Like it's exciting to change your mind like when you don't know something.
It's exciting.
And I always look for the people who are like courageous enough to be like the Galileos of our day.
I think people have a real issue with admitting that they don't know something, and a real issue in admitting that they were incorrect in their assumptions.
And some people don't ever They don't ever admit it.
They don't ever say, I think I fucked up there.
They don't do that.
They just, because they feel like somehow or another that makes them less.
They make like someone's like, ah, you were wrong.
Do you think ultimately, though, that that's a good thing, that this Twitter thing, I might be like too optimistic, but I've been accused of that.
But I think that this, the ability to complain about everything, the ability to interact with people instantaneously is ultimately a good thing because awesome.
Because people like anybody that start, like you, or not you, but like anybody today, like some kid today can just fucking fire up a blog, some 17-year-old girl, and just say, I am going to be a fucking journalist major.
And I'm going to be a journalist.
I'm going to make my own website that's dedicated to news that people don't want to talk about.
And I mean, like, I was at the Wall Street Journal editorial page.
I was in the news corp Fox News Evil Empire thing.
I worked for all these different publications because my basic attitude is like, I know shit.
Like, I started out my career and I was like, nobody knows anything about journalism.
I'm going to write for as many publications as I can.
I'm going to go out there and just have all sorts of crazy wild experiences.
And then it became clear to me that, holy shit, I could run my own website.
I could hire people.
I could pay people for information.
I could basically do what I want to do.
And I could have more impact than if I did the corporate route, where I basically have to pay your dues and get coffee and basically be like a cog in the machine.
And yeah, this is revolutionary.
The fact that I, with 140 characters, you can basically, I mean, I posted documents that showed that people are lying in real time while they're talking on Fox News.
I posted stuff like, I exposed this chick, Elizabeth O'Baghie, who was like the face of going to war in Syria.
She like wrote a Wall Street Journal op-ed column saying that there are all these moderates there.
We should arm them in Syria.
I proved that she was being paid by the Syrian rebels and she faked her PhD.
And it became like a whole scandal.
It led to all this stuff.
And I did that with Twitter and fucking around on the internet.
And that is so cool and so revolutionary.
The scary thing to me though, right, is like the combination of using Twitter and using the mob to flash mob stuff like in Baltimore.
That to me is like, the real question is like, is the crowd like on, you know, is the crowd going to do good things?
Like, are we going to use crowds to like, you know, solve major social problems?
Are we going to use them like for, as terrorist operations that basically spill out into the real world?
But I think that ultimately information and the access to information is what kind of sets everything free.
Because you get an accurate, clear understanding of what's going on.
There's going to be some deception.
There's going to be some confusion initially.
But I think we're in this trend as a society, as a race, the human race.
We're in this trend of expressing ourselves in a much easier way, in a much more instantaneous way than anybody has ever had the ability to do ever, by far.
It's one thing we can pretty much say for a fact.
As long as we've known about people and the things that people have written down, no one's been able to communicate the way they're able to today.
And if you look at the slow progression of culture from the dark ages to today, well, what has accentuated that progression?
What has it been about?
It's been about information.
It's been about education and understanding.
Freeing information, freeing information, expressing yourself and people debating these ideas of expression with now with facts also.
Like someone can say, you could say something on a podcast and someone say, well, you know what?
Actually, that's not true.
Here's a link.
And you go to that link and you go, whoa, oh shit, I didn't know that.
You know, I mean, if you want to go to Ferguson, and that's one of the things, one of the things that I thought was hilarious was this black guy on Twitter wrote that the thing that scares me more than the cops in Ferguson is all these white dudes that don't live here, that come down here, that are yelling, fuck the police, and that are trying to get like, you know, what we're talking about.
And you know that there's some insincerity that's attached to it.
And they know that if they go there and they put that backpack on, they put their fucking sock beanie on and they yell out all the right things and get the right fucking YouTube videos up, it'll make it look like they're socially progressive and they're a part of the solution.
Like we've been, you know, you've probably been to sporting events or fights or whatever where you like, you feel yourself kind of overcome by, you know, like how violent it is or how exciting it is or whatever.
And like you, you know, it's part of the human nature to like want to belong to something.
It's like when you're like, when you think something so profound.
To me, to be a writer, to be a journalist, it's like an adventure.
It's like a quest.
I don't mean to be too nerdy on this, but you go on this adventure where you arrive at something approaching truth and you arrive at not knowing shit that you didn't know before.
Yeah, so like frat boys, the military, I mean, depending on what kind of story you're writing, the military is either the hero or the villain, right?
Depending, right?
So I think human nature is like far more complicated.
I think we're both like hero and villain.
Like this is part of like what makes us, this is what makes us cool as a species, you know?
Yeah.
so like I knew, I knew that the whole thing was bullshit.
I offered like 300 bucks to somebody else because I wanted to go and hire other researchers.
And I look for people who like flout taboos.
Like to me, that one of the things that makes me interested in people is like when they're like, hey, everyone believes this, I believe this, and I'm right.
And they're so confident of it.
So anyways, so I knew that this was all bullshit.
And I knew it was bullshit because of some reporting I'd done, some other research I'd done.
It took me a while to like find the name.
It took me a while to find out more stuff.
But I just started poking around more.
And the thing is, if you've seen enough of these fake ray pokes or enough of these fake like, you know, race hate crimes or whatever, you develop this like weird, I don't know how to describe it.
It's like I used to play chess all the time.
And you see, in chess, you see all these games enough times that you're not even thinking.
You're just moving the pieces because you've seen this orientation before.
It's like the same thing with these fake crimes.
So like I had enough information.
I had enough, you know, stuff to go on.
My intuition was like, you know, my spidey sense was going crazy.
And it became clear to me that like they need a villain in this story.
So they're going to look for me.
But what it's going to do is it's going to amplify the reach of my website, you know, got news.
And it's going to make it so that they're going to make me the story, right?
They have to.
It's just the way the media works.
And so I realized it's like a great promotion tool.
Like if you have no, you know, things.
And then what it will also do is it will also bring people to me.
So like there's a case right now of this kid, Tyler Coast in Arizona, who's like wrongly accused of rape.
And it's like a whole scandal.
It's going to break up.
It's going to blow up like probably over the summer.
And what's going to happen is all of these weird people are going to come out of the woodwork and they're going to start helping me on other projects.
No, but I mean, like, there were so many of these messages, like, in the deposition or the filing that they did to sue Columbia that it's like, it's kind of like outrageous.
You know, like, some of the stuff that was described, like the sex acts, like stuff that it's pretty nasty, disturbed stuff.
Like, I'm not, like, judging people's sex lives or whatever, but like, it's kind of not the kind of thing that you would expect from somebody who was like, yo, raped, you know, that wants to go and fuck her, rapist.
Rape itself, the idea, when you say the word rape, we think of it as holding someone down or forcing someone to have sex with you.
We think of it as a violent act.
But there's a lot of progressives, I don't want to call them progressives, let's just call them social justice warriors, that are making these really ridiculous connections between other acts and calling them rape.
One of them is having sex while drunk, where two people, consenting people who are both the same fucking age, have sex while they're drinking, and the man is a rapist.
And so what they did is what I did was I just said, you know, I wrote like, my cheating, lying ex-girlfriend is as reliable a source as she's a girlfriend, which is to say not very.
And then they brought me up, you know, was brought into her office.
Like, my case is like by no means, I mean, I wrote about it on my website and everything.
It's by no means unique.
Like, I can't even tell you how many, since I did the Jackie Coakley UVA thing, I've gotten like hundreds and hundreds of emails from people all around the country.
You guys, even if you have sex with her and she's willing, she's not able to consent.
But you know the whole thing, the Michael Shermer case?
Do you know that whole case he was accused of rape because him and a girl had had sex when they were drunk and she did the language that she used, he got me drunk to a point where I couldn't consent.
And then, you know, there was a guy wrote a blog about it, this asshole social justice warrior guy that is a professor.
And they, you know, the guy's name got pushed out as a rapist.
I mean, they were essentially saying consenting adults having sex is rape because both of them had been drinking, but the man was the rapist because men are evil, because it's sexism.
And so, you know, he's like, oh, I'm so sorry that I don't like you kind of stuff.
And she's trying to torture him using the system.
And so what he did was he sued Columbia and was like, look, you know, Title IX, you know, you can't discriminate against men.
You're creating an unsafe environment for me here.
You're saying you're allowing my rapist, you know, this woman who accuses me of being a rapist to wander around, you know, defaming me, even though you found me guilty in your bullshit kangaroo.
I mean, you found me not guilty in your bullshit kangaroo court.
So they found him like not guilty of rape, like under their administrative policies, which by the way, those things are like, they almost always convict you, right?
So he's found like not guilty and he sues them.
And I hope he wins.
Like he's going after Bollinger, the guy who's the president there.
He's going after the and this chick, you know, she's running around with her mattress saying that her rapist was on campus and he's dangerous.
I really do think, I really do think, though, by the way, like, I think like legitimately, I think like Ruch and some of those like men's rights people, like I'm not a men's rights, you know, guy.
Like I, you know, I'm a people's rights guy, you know?
But like, I think they're right.
Like, if you don't go to the police and you go to like college administrator, like yeah, that chick.
And look, kids, when they go away to college, they get drunk and they fuck and they make mistakes and they have sex with people they don't want to have sex with.
But here's the number one thing that's fucked up about this idea of people drinking alcohol, having sex, and have that being rape or people being deceptive and calling that rape.
You're just talking about sex.
You're talking about consensual sex and you filtered consensual sex into these parameters and now you're calling it rape.
And people fuck up.
People lie.
And that's how you find out who to hang out with and who to not hang out with.
But the worst case scenario that's happening to these people is they had sex with someone they regret.
That's part of being a person.
You find me someone who never had sex with someone they regret.
And I'll find you a person that's never taken a fucking chance.
I went to this prep school in Massachusetts Milton Academy.
You probably remember from Milton Mass.
Yeah, Milton Mass.
So I was a scholarship winner there.
And we had this like crazy case where we had this chick who like willingly, 15 years old, gave head to this guy on his 18th birthday and five other guys.
I think it was like, oh, or four other guys.
And the school just expelled all of them because of the Romeo and Juliet laws.
Like if you're 15, if you're under 16, it's like rape automatically.
But so anyway, so like one in 10 people, their moms or their dads are not who their mom says it is, right?
Because from humans, we know that like women prefer the alpha male sperm, but the beta male to raise the kids because the alpha male will run away, right?
So a lot of women we've seen like in fake rape cases, they'll go and they'll have an affair and they'll say, oh, that guy raped me, right?
And we've seen this like happen time and time again.
And that kind of stuff, like people lie about stuff.
The thing that pisses me off the most about the feminists or like the social justice warriors is to say, what woman would lie about rape?
Like as if it's like some unnatural thing.
Like people lie about all kinds of shit all the time for like no apparent reasons.
Sometimes the crazy, sometimes it's a tactical advantage, right?
Like there was a case we did at University of Hawaii.
There was this chick, McKenna Facto is her name.
And she liked, there were two guys, like one who lived in one room, one who lived in the other, you know, like dorm situation.
And she liked the, you know, the hot, you know, football player guy.
And he didn't like her anymore.
He was like banging some other chick, right?
And the guy next door was like, you know, she fucked him to get him jealous and then said that this guy next door, like the nerdy guy next door, raped her.
And he was found innocent.
He was like clear, but he was like expelled from school at the University of Hawaii.
He had to like spend all this money to defend himself and he was found like not guilty.
You like, you know, one and everything.
But imagine like how, I mean, that's like a perfectly human thing.
Like who, who, I mean, who hasn't seen situations where somebody will sleep with somebody else to get them jealous, right?
Like this is like how humans behave.
Like this is what people love to do things to get reactions.
They love to do wonderful things like bring you flowers to get a reaction or they like to accuse you of things you didn't actually do in order to get a negative reaction.
Or fuck your friends.
I mean how many girls have done that?
Fuck their boyfriend's friends when they break up.
I mean that's a super common thing.
I've had fucking girlfriends of ex-boy, you know, guys who are still good friends, like girlfriends when they break up come after me.
I'm like, get the fuck out of here.
And I immediately will call them and tell them, dude, your ex-girlfriend tries to fuck.
You know, the problem is people get lonely and they get sad and they get super depressed that that person doesn't want to be with them anymore.
And sometimes that sense of loss, and it's ingrained in our DNA because it's how people stay together, which is how people procreate, which is how the human race expands.
Because if it didn't, if you didn't have that sense of loss when someone no longer wants to be with you anymore, then you would have no incentive to improve your personality.
You'd have no incentive to get your shit together.
The whole reason why people have that feeling when someone wants to leave, that feeling of rejection is terrible because your body and your DNA is telling you, hey, fuckface, you got to learn how to be a more attractive person.
You have to learn how to be more accepted.
You have to learn how to figure out a way to be more valuable to mates.
And that is one of the problems with social justice warriors.
That same instinct to be more valuable and better is what's leading these people to loudly proclaim that they're fiercely feminist, that they'll go after men exclusively, not be objective about the situation, not saying, hey, maybe these two people got drunk and maybe this girl had sex with a guy and kind of regrets it, and then the guy didn't regret it.
And now, let's just accuse this guy of rape.
Because that's what they're doing.
And stepping forward and proclaiming that this guy's a rapist and writing blog entries about it.
All you're doing is trying to set yourself aside as being the moral high ground.
So anyways, what's interesting about it is this whole brainwash kind of culture.
Yeah, this kind of like brainwashed culture.
There's like a biological reason.
And if you're a woman and you have sex with a guy and you regret it, and then the campus feminists come in there, the social justice warriors come in there and say, your regret is actually rape.
It's a very biological thing that produces this.
And then on the other side of it, too, you've got this other biological problem, which is that in all animal species, right, like rape, I mean, animals don't rape each other.
I mean, they do.
That's basically like the whole point of the animal kingdom, right?
So like you've got cases where males among primates will go and they'll just, they'll rape some desirable female because they're like the lonely animal in the tribe.
You know what I'm saying?
So it's like, it's like in our society, if we had some loser dude as a last-ditch mating strategy, they'd go and rape.
And I think that's like, that explains an awful lot of like the actual violent predatory rape that we see, not the kind of acquaintance rape.
I got to tell you, there's a case right now in LA that's kind of like getting some attention.
I wrote about it a lot, but there's this actress, Polly Perette, you know, like the NCIS chick.
I don't know if you've seen that show, but basically NCIS, she's like accusing her husband.
It's like this long-drawn out custody or long-drawn out like divorce thing.
And she's been using the state and her restraining orders to go and hire people to follow her husband around and basically show up so that he gets thrown in jail.
Yeah, it's like this whole thing.
If you Google Coyote Shivers and Polly Perette, you'll see.
Like, she said that she feared for her life and she called the 911 call.
And I posted the audio of that, and it showed like she wasn't freaking out or anything.
She was very calm.
She was trying to get her husband around.
I mean, there's a lot of physical evidence in the case.
I mean, not to tell you what to do with your podcast, but he's somebody you should have on because he's kind of an interesting guy.
He's been, you know, he was like a total liberal kind of guy, and he's been dealing with the trauma of this.
And there's, I mean, if you go to Got News, I've kind of written it out in kind of more detail, but there's a lot of evidence to kind of point me.
I tend to be very suspicious of men who are like accused of, you know, accused of beating in general because like, yeah, like because it's common.
Like people do it.
You know, like a friend of mine actually, not a friend of mine, but you know, like a Twitter friend of mine, Todd Kincannon, who's a famous kind of Republican guy, was wailing on his wife for a long time and was apparently arrested for it.
So I don't discount that, that that happens.
But the evidence that's gone on here, the number of people, different civil rights groups have gotten involved, the number of researchers have gotten involved.
There are a lot of people who are like, this guy could go to jail for a year on trumped up charges.
And it's kind of wild.
But again, you never really know.
Like this gets to what we were saying earlier, right?
You never really know what goes on with two people, right?
There's certain people that that feeling that they get that we discussed before when someone rejects you, that horrible feeling of loss and just like, God, which is nature trying to get you to do some deep fucking soul searching and figure out how to be a better mate.
When you're getting, when you're fucking on the regular, you know, you get certain brain chemicals released, you know, you feel good about yourself, right?
Like, I mean, that's what the whole, like, when you first fall in love, you're getting all that octocin into your brain, which is like a narcotic.
Like it's a, you know, it's an actual like, and then when you stop getting that, you go through withdrawals, right?
And that's what you, that's why you feel like physically, like your body hurts.
It's dark what people are capable of doing and deception and the fact that they can plot and conspire to have someone locked up for something just to sort of have an impact on their life.
And my God, I mean, anybody that finds out about Mattress Girl and then still decides to date her after that, well, what a glutton for punishment you must be.
Yeah, but this, the whole, the focus became, instead of his mental health issues, this is a guy in Santa Barbara.
The focus became that this whole thing was about men's rights activists and pickup artists who have fucked with this guy's head and gotten him to objectify women and that women have to deal with this guy kind of person on a regular basis.
But the whole thing was just so completely fucked up.
Like, how can you, and I saw there's so many social justice workers, including one guy that I respect, wrote this article, his hashtag yes all women article.
I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, dude.
You're dealing with a person with obvious mental illness problems.
And the fact that you're writing yes all women when he murdered men as well is just crazy.
And it's sad, too, because like there's so many people out there who have like legit mental health issues that like we shouldn't be putting them into a like into like a Political or social or religious lens.
We should just be like, we should just get these people help.
We should try and identify them, not give them guns, right?
Like, I think we, you know, those of us who are pro-guns, we should recognize that like there's some people who shouldn't have guns.
Not that we should be overly restrictive about gun laws, because I think a lot of people in Maryland right now kind of wish they could have concealed carry, you know, in Baltimore and whatnot.
But we should be like, we should stop trying to politicize everything and try to like help people.
And the thing is, when you start framing these things as political discussions rather than like, hey, like, this guy's crazy.
Yeah, it's all, I mean, this is, we're monkeys, right?
Like, or we're like, you know, we're primates or whatever we want to say, you know, the PC version of it.
All monkeys signal.
Like, all of them socially, they, you know, that's what the gorilla does this for.
Like, this is what this is.
And what they're doing is they're using the taboos of the society to show to women that they're virtuous and that therefore they're deserving of female attention.
And, you know, they don't know that they're doing that.
I'm sure they see like a political lens to it, but that's what they're doing.
I think something like $100,000 worth of damage was done.
People saw that as an excuse.
This is the thing that scares me, right?
This is like, I don't like the Hitler reducto-added Hitlerium thing, but like, you know, like the Kristallnach thing when people were like targeting Jews, right?
Like there's a certain aspect of this where like it becomes okay to hate certain people.
And because it's okay to hate them, it's okay to harm them.
And we are seeing this with like, you know, attacks on the police in Baltimore right now.
We're seeing this with attacks on fraternities.
I mean, if you, the social justice warriors are honest about this.
They say like, we want to destroy fraternities in this country as like bastions of male power, right?
Like that's what they're trying to do.
That's why you saw, you remember that like video a while back at Oklahoma where the, you know, the frat boys were saying some racist shit, like, which was like, you know, we've all been in environments where people have said shit that like probably shouldn't be broadcast to the entire world, right?
Like we've all been, we've all been like, I'm not saying, you know, the Donald Sterling thing is a good example of this, like a private conversation.
I mean, if you can't have a private conversation with your mistress, who can you have a private conversation with?
But I mean, in some ways, the legal system is super important to have.
It's important.
If somebody victimizes you, you have recourse.
You could get that money, but you can get it back.
Oh, she didn't get victimized.
She had a husband that was fucking the hot young girl and buying her condos and buying her Mercedes or whatever the fuck he bought or of Jaguars or Bentleys or whatever the fuck it was.
The whole thing is kind of hilarious when it's all played out in front of you.
Yeah, you would think it would be like a, yeah, you would think it was like a Tom Wolf novel or like you would think it's like some kind of fun play or something.
But I mean like with the Jackie Coakley situation at the University of Virginia, right?
I thought it was kind of racist that we all like know Tawana Brawley's name, but not Jackie Coakley.
But like, I mean, I'm sure there's some power that comes with being, I mean, it was brought up before Congress.
Like they tried to pass like laws based upon this girl, based upon Emily Renda, who was her friend, who apparently has this whole other problem with her own rape story where she was allegedly raped.
But there are like conflicting accounts on that.
But like the thing that bothers me about this is not is not the girls, because I think there is something like mentally ill with Jackie.
Like Jackie's clearly bipolar.
Like a lot of the people I've talked to who know her says that she's just not well.
The thing that bothers me is there's this desire by a lot of like journalists now to go and shop, as Sabrina Rubin Erdley put it, to shop around looking for victims, right?
Rather than to like tell the complexity of like, you know, an actual fight that goes on.
I mean, what they do is they reduce people to like characters in their agit prop play, right?
Rather than like get into like the motivations and the psychology.
And they don't really like, they don't really do the actual work.
They basically use the gang rapes or the more tawdry sensationalist things to basically push people, emotionally manipulate them to like advance an interest or an agenda.
And what's happening right now on college campuses is they're eliminating due process rights for men.
And like, I was a nerd in college.
Like I'm a nerd now, right?
Like nobody was asking me to join the fraternity.
Like I live with football players and I like, you know, I saw the progression, you know, the procession of hot women that came in and tried to fuck them.
Right.
Like I, you know, I saw all this.
But the, and I'm not like trying to like defend some of the borish behavior that like football players and frat guys have.
Like we all know there's some stuff that goes on there that's probably like probably not the coolest stuff in the world, right?
Because those are the men that just go to war and those are the men that defend them and those are the violent, aggressive men are attractive to their genes.
Look, you can have a society, you can on the one hand have a society that like tries to turn us all into basically feminized men and then hope that things will work out.
You need burly, disturbed men to go and break stuff.
This is like what you need in a society.
And if you're just constantly putting upon them and constantly, it's not going to work out well.
So Rolling Stone publishes this story with very little vetting of the facts and just violated all the laws of journalism, which is so disturbing because Rolling Stone is this iconic magazine that, in my mind, is ultimately connected with Hunter S. Thompson and Matt Taip.
So I don't know that some of them were fucking around, though.
Like, there was some stuff that was done, you know, like, this is what happens.
He's an attractive kind of guy.
But that pissed me off.
And then with the Rolling Stone stuff, what I discovered about a lot of journalism out there that you see all the time is that it goes through very little fact-checking.
Yeah, well, you certainly can shoot down that one.
That article is a rough one.
And that article being in Rolling Stone was so disappointing to a lot of people that there's a lot of people canceled their Rolling Stone subscriptions, I'm sure, because of it.
It's one of those things where you're always going to have to wonder about any scathing report that they publish in that magazine now.
There's no story without Jackie Coakley talking to Sabrina Rubin-Eardley.
So why does she go and talk to her?
Because Emily Renda, who's like trying to push this campus rape agenda story, you know, this kind of rape culture fantasy, she was shopping around for victims.
And there's no story without Jackie Coakley.
And she lied.
I mean, she lied repeatedly.
She relied about the guy even existing.
She hadn't talked to the photo of the guy that she had seen in all these years.
Like, there's just, I mean, you have to vet your sources.
You have to vet people that you talk to.
And none of that was done because the story was too good.
Well, it's one of those things, this story, where you can't question a woman who says that she was involved in a rape because if you do, you become a rape apologist, you become a part of the problem, you become all, I mean, you attach a bunch of different negative monikers to it.
And that sort of, that hands-off, non-objective approach to one very specific thing.
If you talk about a man who's been beaten up, you know, and a man whose violence has been perpetrated on him, you can ask all sorts of questions.
Why do you think, I mean, so I've been thinking about this.
I've been having this debate with a friend of mine, right, about the rape shield law, right?
Because, you know, like in a lot of newspapers, a lot of newspapers do this like, you know, by design.
They say like they don't mention the name of the woman, right?
Whenever there's a rape allegation.
They say, you know, this woman was raped.
She's 2019 or whatever.
They never tell you like her name.
And I always feel really uncomfortable with this because it provides a great shield to do damage to somebody, right?
Like if you, if you don't identify the name of a victim, a supposed victim, it's an alleged victim.
We haven't had a trial yet.
We haven't had conviction yet.
We haven't had anything, right?
And when people we know are doing power plays to kind of like screw people over, I mean, I posted an article of 13 women who lied about rape on my Twitter page.
And like, I think the rape shield idea existed like in a time before kind of the sexual revolution.
So it made a lot of sense then, like when a woman's virtuousness or, you know, not having sex was prized.
But like, we're in 2015.
Like most people are having sex before marriage, right?
Like a lot of people, you know what I mean?
Like it seems kind of weird that we still have this thing where we keep the name of the vict of the, it's an alleged victim, but they always pretend like it's a real victim.
And we don't know that yet.
Like there hasn't been.
And it seems like if we named if we named the women, you know, like, hey, so-and-so is accusing such and such of this crime, and we just name them like we do for attempted murder, like we do for all kinds of cases, I think we would get fewer of these fake rape incidents.
I mean, this is people that have actually been raped where it's been proven they've been raped have said that they were reluctant to talk about it because of the shame that comes on them, the shame that gets put on them because of the situation where a woman gets raped.
It's very different than a woman getting beat up or a man getting beat up or any other situation.
When a person gets raped, it's a shameful, horrible feeling that this person has to deal with publicly.
They have to be publicly humiliated by the fact that this guy sexually used them, held them down.
There's kind of like this kind of like in the post-sexual revolution era, we're not sure if women should be virtuous or if they should be the same as men.
We're not really sure what to make.
I mean, I've thought about this, though.
I would never shame a woman.
Like if somebody came to me and they were like, you know, I was raped or like, you know, my sister or friend or whatever, I wouldn't be like, you know, shaming them.
I don't know that, like, I don't know that the shame thing really is as true as it once was.
If you get together with 100 people, especially when you add anonymity, like the anonymity that the internet provides, where you don't have the social consequences of being questioned for your behavior or your tweets.
There's a lot of that, but at least they can see you.
They can look in your eyes and see your car, write your plate down.
You have just some jumbled series of numbers and letters.
It's your Twitter account.
You're an asshole on it.
And you can do it anonymously and you can get away with it.
So if you find out that someone has been accused of something or some woman is, you know, some crime like rape has been perpetrated against her, what's to stop some anonymous fuckhead from just harassing them and going after them?
And a lot of people have like made of, you know, they've made a strong habit of doing that to people.
He says there's a phenomenon going on, but he's at the University of Montana.
He lives in Montana, so I assume he was just interviewing people.
But there are like five or six anecdotes of rapes.
And one of the cases is this guy who's a football player who in 2012 was found not guilty of rape.
He was like brought before the courts and everything.
He was exonerated.
And Krakauer wants this guy to be expelled, even though the court system found him innocent.
And he's created this anonymous identity for this chick.
He calls her Washburn.
I forget her first name in the book.
But there's this case, University of Montana, where the guy's found innocent.
And even after he's found innocent, he's still being tortured with being called a rapist.
He's still being tortured with being called.
And I think, I got to say, like, damaging accusations of rape.
You know, rape is like a serious, terrible crime.
It's like, as Dershowitz has put it, it's the most falsely reported crime, but it's also the most underreported crime that we sort of have in our society.
But on the other hand, like, it should be a big deal to accuse somebody publicly.
You should, I mean, under the Sixth Amendment of the United States Constitution, you have a right to confront your accusers.
How can you confront them if the trial is occurring in the media without your ability to even respond to the anonymous allegations?
So it's kind of like a trade-off thing, and it's really difficult to make the balance.
Anyone who says definitively, like, I have the answer for you on this stuff, it's just totally full of shit because it's really hard to know what to do.
You know, like, should we not write about the University of Montana case where this guy was found not guilty because he's now been found not guilty, even though he may have raped her, right?
We don't know.
Just because the court system decides something, we know there are many cases where courts get things wrong.
We did a video, which is making the rounds, called Good Morning Baltimore, you know, like that old...
And it's like, it's really like, it's fucking, it's perverse, but kind of funny.
But I think, I don't know, man, like there's something, I think there's something tribal about us as people that like, you know, I've had this experience at like sporting events or like at political events where you feel something like overcome you.
And I'm like pretty rational, you know, nerdy guy, you know, high IQ on the bell curve kind of thing.
But like there's something if I'm drawn to it and we're all drawn to it, like then the people who are really like dumb and poor and don't have a lot of options and yet they all have smartphones, like it gets really scary.
Well, there's without a doubt, there's a certain aspect of human beings that allows us to go with the flow of big movements.
When there's big things that are happening, there's horrific things that happen in large groups, in mass groups, that just wouldn't happen when there's one person.
And I think the sporting events, like thing of the white people that riot, I think that that is like what I'm talking about.
Like you're part of this tribe and it just like boils over because when you have a whole lot of like, you know, shitheads together, like we were talking about earlier, like 1% of them are going to be assholes or whatever.
And I'm sure it starts really, you know, slowly, like one guy breaks something and then everyone else starts breaking shit, right?
But like, so like take the case, like there was a famous sociological experiment where we took, we gave blacks in the ghetto, we gave them like Section 8 vouchers to like get the hell out of the ghetto, right?
And we started, there's like an Atlantic article on this like maybe four or five years ago.
But what happened was that we gave all these Section 8 vouchers to get out of the ghetto, right?
And what happened?
Like people got out of the ghetto and then they started committing crimes like in their new areas.
So like we gave everyone, you know, like whatever the rental equivalent is and then you could move into like a nicer area.
And they brought the crime with them.
So that just goes to show like how much it's like a part of you once you grow up in it or how much it's a part of like your brain, you know?
Like so this book I'm reading right now, this is like the best book I've read in like 10 years.
It's called Sapiens and it's about basically what makes humans like what made us different from all the other homos or I guess animal homos, you know, Homo erectus, homo Neanderthal or whatever.
And what he says is there's this thing that we have as humans where we take on fictions, like we believe certain isms, and that becomes like most primate species, it's like, you know, a few people are in your tribe and are in your group.
You know, like humans, I think it's like 150 maximum.
That's like the max size of a tribe.
But what happens is that we all start to like believe certain narratives about the world in our brains.
We get kind of like brainwashed or whatever.
And then we start to act on our commitment to that fiction that we've created.
And it's kind of wild when you think about it.
Like there's so many fictions in your society, so many things you unconsciously believe, so many isms, but also like things like joint stock companies or like legal documents.
I mean, all of law, if you think about it, it's just a fiction we all agree on.
Governments, it's the same kind of thing.
And this book has really kind of like challenged a lot of my thinking on this because like, you know, if you're in the, if you're creating this mindset that like people are so put upon, so put upon, so put upon, they'll start to act like they're so put upon, right?
Because it's like they're, they get infected, their brains get infected.
And it becomes really hard to persuade people, particularly it's like, it's pretty self-serving if you just say like, you're in the ghetto and you're fucked.
Because like, you know, there are many examples of people like surviving out of the ghetto, people moving out of the ghetto.
There are many, like human beings are much more malleable, I think, than of like, you know, escaping from terrible circumstances.
And yet what we do as a society is we say like, no, you're fucked.
Like you're done.
You know, you're never going to.
And like, we should be like thinking about ways so we could orient the society so there are more options.
So there were a number of black radical activist types in Chicago and the suburbs there, who basically black guys whose parents are doctors, lawyers, whatever.
People who like, I mean, obviously not every black person is kind of like living in the ghetto.
I mean, there are lots of them who live wherever, right?
So what was interesting about this is there are all these cases of like, to be like authentically black, these kids who were like, you know, went to fancy schools, went to good schools or whatever, they felt they had to go and participate in like, you know, the anti-cop protests or the, you know what I mean?
But maybe, on the other hand, I mean, yeah, you probably are right about that to a certain extent.
I'm sure there's a motivation of that.
But I also think it's kind of weird, too, that your parents give you all these options, right, to escape the ghetto and you return to the ghetto as like a, you know, to like cause trouble.
Well, ultimately, I mean, I'm sure they have the National Guards down there now, and there's probably going to be violence will escalate, and then, like, Ferguson will eventually calm down.
But in any population of anything, you're going to get shitty teachers, good teachers, bad cops, good cops.
You know, the system that you build should be built towards trying to assess the worst case scenarios.
And in some of these cases, like, you know, Darren Wilson is a good example.
By the way, people should go see that Ferguson, the play.
Like, it's getting all this attention.
Yeah, there's this guy, Philim McAlier.
He's like a friend of mine.
He's an Irish guy.
He's a journalist.
And he did verbatim theater of the Ferguson stuff where they just read the grand jury transcript and it's caused like all this controversy and craziness.
I mean, like, if you have all these housing projects and the hellhole of like not having fathers around, I'm with you on all of this, right?
But I think we need to be like, I think these communities are so intractable and the solutions that we've offered for many, many years of like, they're not solving the problem.
And I don't know that we can ever really solve them.
And that's kind of, that's like, to me, that's the most terrifying thing about this is that it's just a permanent feature of my life.
I certainly don't think there's enough effort put to try to solve the problem.
And I think the clear root of that problem is that I described it yesterday in terms of if we are a superorganism, we look at our, and look at our country as a microcosm of the world superorganism.
What's the issue with this organism?
Well, the issue is the organism has some sick spots it's not dealing with.
The way I described it yesterday is if you have a staph infection and you're angry at the staph infection for not healing.
See, to me, what's scary about this, like I talked to my family in Baltimore, like if you know, what's scary to me about this is that like what happens is that they get political leadership.
And it's not a Democrat-Republican thing.
People are trying to put it in that lens.
It's they get political leadership.
I mean, the mayor before this last one like went to jail, was like indicted for corruption.
Like they get these really corrupt, thuggish, bad people.
And I'm not saying they're thuggish because they're black.
I'm saying they're thugs because they're thugs, right?
They prey on their own people and they pray in their own communities.
And it's really like sick.
And I don't know how you solve that if we're going to have like, if we're going to have a society where people can vote and elect people.
Like, I mean, so much of the political system is bullshit, even in like the wealthier parts of the country, right?
We still have to deal with assholes who like pretend to represent us, who are whatever party.
And yet like these people have no choice.
They're often like, you know, the people who get elected are like corrupt.
They're bad people.
And yet like they're supposed to, I mean, you can't get a good system out of a corrupt group of people.
I mean, I don't agree with Obama on a lot of stuff, but I think Obama's right when he says that, you know, he quotes Faulkner saying that the past isn't past.
I think she works as last I checked she works at a hair salon.
And it's just sad.
Like the whole thing is sad.
So a lot of people think I take like joy in having I take joy in like exposing the truth always, but I don't take joy in like, you know, these people's property was destroyed.
This girl's life is ruined.
I mean, to a certain extent, that's like the social cost.
Like I had to, I had a responsibility to like make it public who this person was, I think.
But it's sad.
Like the whole situation is kind of sad.
And I know there's like some people right now who want to do like a more comprehensive report.
And I'm probably going to help with that going into more stuff on Sabrina Rubin Eardley.
But there, I mean, there are fraternities, there are football teams.
There's all this stuff that's under attack all throughout the country right now by the social justice warriors.
And it's going to be quite frightening.
I think it's going to intensify before it gets.
And what we have right now is we have a war.
And I hate the word war because I hate even the warriors thing, the social justice thing.
I prefer social justice activists because they're active.
It's not a war.
We're not shooting each other.
Thank God.
But I think there really is a political, electronic civil war going on right now between people who have narrative-based views of the universe and people who are fact-based.
Excuse me.
They're basically at loggerheads.
And I don't know how long this can endure.
You talk about slavery and civil war.
Lincoln said a house divided against itself can't stand.
I don't know how we have journalists on the one hand who present facts and figures and trying to understand the world, and then others who try and basically preach and sell a crazy narrative of the world.
Well, I think it coexists in that this conflict and the debate and the discussion.
People like you or people like many of the people that are listening to this now or watching this or people that are discussing this right now on Twitter and arguing pro and con, these subjects get vetted out.
They get discussed.
They get debated.
They get bounced back and forth.
And some people will change their minds and some people will be reinforced by this conversation and some people will be angered by this conversation.
No, what I want to do with that is I want people to understand like, you know, there are people out there who, there should be a consequence for like supporting it.
But, you know, and like if you're, my cousin likes to say if your city is known for the wire and homicide and all this other stuff, like, it's probably not good.
And there's some places now, because of YouTube and all of these videos that everyone has, rather, phones that can take videos, you can expose all sorts of shit that shouldn't be happening.
Police brutality, and then there's a reaction to it.
But do you know, like, so I've been thinking about this.
I totally agree with you about the nature of like everyone has these, right?
And how awesome that is, how powerful it is.
Andrew Breitbar, others have talked about how awesome this technology is.
But to a certain extent, when I turn on the camera, right, you're turning on the camera on me, you know, we've got this audio equipment, people change, right?
So like to a certain extent, when you're running around filming stuff, some people are performing for the cameras.
And I don't know what you do about that because you can't, on the one hand, censor it, because if you censor it, like that's evil and wicked, like we're against that.
We have a First Amendment for a reason.
But on the other hand, it's like the, what is it, that Pareto effect, or there's an effect where basically you watching something causes people to change their behavior.
Like if you watch your employees, they're going to change their behavior.
So I don't think we should necessarily concentrate on that as much as we should concentrate on what are the lessons that we can learn from all this.
And what I think ultimately we have to concentrate on these areas, whether they're Ferguson, which is a very high crime area, has been for a long time, or whether it's Baltimore.
There's areas of the country that need help.
And the people that grow up in there grow up in these horrible, crime-ridden environments that really don't have any other recourse.
I mean, like, one of the things that I kind of feel bad about this, you know, like everyone's going after this woman, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, for saying, you know, we need a space to destroy.
So she did a video where she said, actually, the video that we did of Good Morning Baltimore, with the riots, we started with this opening thing where she said, you know, we need a safe space for people to destroy, for writers to destroy.
And people are going after her.
She says she misspoke.
I don't know.
I'd give her the benefit of the doubt because she's been kind of like reluctant on bringing in the police to basically solve the riots.
But basically, I feel really bad for her because like, this is a really tough job to be mayor.
Like, you know, like, I get to be a journalist.
You know, we get to basically just like belovviate and bullshit about this, right?
Like, we're not the ones in these cities, like making these decisions.
Like, I always try and put myself in the position of people.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I always try and put myself in their chair.
And like, it's a shitty situation.
And I don't see any situation short of like bringing in the military, which I, you know, I'm not a big fan of military industrial complex.
But like, that's what they're going to have to do.
They did the same thing with the LA riots here, right?
Like, you know, the Koreans were defending themselves and their property.
And they can't really do that in Maryland because they don't have concealed carry and they have a lot of gun restrictions.
And people who are in the kind of white areas there are kind of liberals, so they wouldn't have guns anyways.
But what I find really interesting about this is that how quick people are to judge our elected leaders.
And we should judge them, but like it's a hard life.
It's a shitty situation that these people are in.
And I guarantee you, like, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, you know, the mayor there, she never thought she'd have to deal with this shit.
I'm of the opinion that when we look at these isolated instances, any of them, we look at it and we say, wow, this is horrible.
The world is fucked.
But I think that what's going on with all of these incidences is we're reacting to problems that we have in our society.
We're reacting to these areas that need attention.
And these explosive events that cause whether it's riots or protests or marches or all of these things are ultimately good because I think they cause people to focus on these areas that are convenient to ignore.
Yeah, I mean, if you're, if, if you're, there are two ways to bet, right?
There's the pessimistic kind of like shit's going to go down, all that kind of thing, which, like, temperamentally, I'm probably more that way.
But you could be right.
Like, I'm not, I'm not, I don't dispute you.
Like, there's shit that we like, I mean, the fact that I have this, the fact that I have a career because this exists, right?
And the fact that I'm able to disrupt bad stuff on the internet and cause things to change, it's all awesome.
It's all good.
Like, I'm all for it.
But I think there's a, the same technology that allows us to spotlight government abuses can often, you know, in the wrong hands can be used to basically promote and do riots.
My point was that Baltimore itself, as fucked as it is, as fucked as it's been, it's just these people that grow up generation after generation living in poverty.
It's only been around a couple hundred years.
This is a new situation, a completely new country, ultimately, when you look at the history of the world.
And even things like social justice warriors or people that are going after college campus scenarios where they believe that there's men that are committing rape.
Ultimately, what they're doing, even if I disagree with their methodology or disagree with their ideology that they're pushing forth in favor of objective truth, ultimately it's to try to stop crime, stop people being victimized.