Oct. 15, 2014 - The Joe Rogan Experience
01:57:17
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unidentified
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Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. | |
| The Joe Rogan experience. | ||
| Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. | ||
| You don't have to wear headphones if you don't want. | ||
| You're Paul Stanley. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| I do what I want. | ||
| You can do whatever the fuck you want. | ||
| You want to take a shit on the floor over there? | ||
| You feel free. | ||
| Hey, you know, use your imagination. | ||
| If that's what turns you on. | ||
| It's not, but I would accept it. | ||
| I wouldn't even take photos of it. | ||
| I wouldn't even tell anybody. | ||
| I'm just putting Joe Rogan Podcast. | ||
| You put it now on Twitter? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You did it. | ||
| Beautiful. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| We're live. | ||
| Good. | ||
| First of all, I just want to say thank you very much for being here. | ||
| When I was a little kid, I've been a fan of KISS since... | ||
| I can't remember when I wasn't. | ||
| Like, I was a tiny little kid when I first found out about KISS. So to have you here in my podcast, I've been to many of your shows, both pre-when you wore makeup, then when you got off of makeup, and then when you got back on makeup again. | ||
| So I've been through the full spectrum. | ||
| Solo, I had the solo albums. | ||
| I was there too. | ||
| You were there for the whole thing. | ||
| I've been through the whole thing. | ||
| Every show you were at, I was at too. | ||
| That's what I hear. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| But that is a weird thing, though, that you like... | ||
| You guys, you broke up, not broke up, but you got rid of Chris and you got rid of Ace. | ||
| And then you brought in new guys. | ||
| And now you kind of have guys that play those roles. | ||
| Is that how you're doing it now? | ||
| I don't know that you could... | ||
| I mean, that's a tough one to answer. | ||
| I think where we went astray is when we first replaced Peter and we decided we needed a new character. | ||
| And the problem with that kind of stuff is that it started to become, interestingly, I think, disingenuous. | ||
| It took on an air of fake in the sense that it became a menagerie. | ||
| I mean, we had a fox and an Egyptian warrior. | ||
| Next we would have Turtle Boy and the Frogman. | ||
| So I think once we brought Ace and Peter back for the reunion tour, Which I hoped would go on forever. | ||
| In other words, I hoped that everybody would get back together, everybody would see the error in their ways, and we would move forward and stay together forever. | ||
| But when that wasn't to be, I thought, you know, we really built these four images. | ||
| Arguably, you can go anywhere in the world and people know who KISS is, regardless of whether they know who those people are. | ||
| To give up that because we found that those guys were no longer either capable or wanted to give it 100%, well, who loses out? | ||
| The fans. | ||
| Those images are the images that will continue when I'm not here either. | ||
| Yeah, that's gotta be a strange place to be where you and Gene are both these super-focused, healthy, non-drug-using guys, and then you have these two guys in your band that are integral parts of the band. | ||
| You know, I mean, Beth was a huge hit. | ||
| It was, and look, this whole show could turn into denigrating the former members, but I don't want to do that, but honestly... | ||
| That song was the product of a great producer who had a big hand in writing it and a co-writer who Peter used on a lot of things that he supposedly wrote. | ||
| But they were integral members of the band, and it's very difficult to move forward when two of the people are like... | ||
| At times, like flat tires, you're trying to move forward. | ||
| It becomes more of a problem when their reason for being is to foil and to throw off track what you're trying to do. | ||
| So, at some point, it really became more about trying to disrupt what we were trying to do With no regard to whether or not what they want to do was right or wrong. | ||
| They just wanted, let's screw Gene and Paul. | ||
| So we'll say no and they'll say yes. | ||
| So it really became very, very, very difficult. | ||
| So do you think they did that because, I mean, did they have a logical reason? | ||
| Was it just because they were self-sabotaging anyway? | ||
| I think self-sabotaging comes into it because I think that's been something that's run through parts of their lives. | ||
| But I also think that there was a lot of resentment. | ||
| And honestly, I don't believe in resenting people for what they can do that you can't. | ||
| If you're lucky enough to have people around you who can do what you can't, make them your best friend. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Learn. | ||
| Learn. | ||
| And everybody can't be the best at what they do, but you can benefit from being around those people. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Look, I never wanted or expected anybody in the band to do necessarily the same amount of work that I did, but I expected them to give 100%. | ||
| I was all for splitting things evenly in the original lineup of the band up until those guys departed the first time. | ||
| But you have to give your best. | ||
| When you say, like, resent, like, resent for what you, what they can't do, but they were great. | ||
| I mean, Peter Criss was a fantastic drummer. | ||
| Ace Frehley was a great guitarist. | ||
| What would they resent, other than your sobriety or your health? | ||
| I think focus and drive and perhaps... | ||
|
unidentified
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Determination. | |
| Yeah, determination and seeing the whole picture and wanting this to be as good as it could be as opposed to falling back on, oh, you know, it's rock and roll. | ||
| Well, rock and roll is no excuse for mediocrity. | ||
| And rock and roll is no excuse for not doing your job. | ||
| You know, if somebody says, oh, my playing is rock and roll. | ||
| No, that's just bad. | ||
| You know, there's bad and then there's rock and roll. | ||
| So, look, it's a long time ago. | ||
| And it's kind of like talking about a girlfriend or a wife you had a long time ago. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| And trying to disseminate what went wrong. | ||
| And at some point, it really doesn't matter. | ||
| Yeah, it's always hard to deal with people that are in that sort of self-sabotaging mode. | ||
| And you see it all the time. | ||
| One of the things that I always equate to is when you see people smoking cigarettes and they throw their cigarette on the ground and don't think anything of it. | ||
| And it's a super common thing. | ||
| It's very rare that you see people just throw trash on the ground in front of everybody. | ||
| But people will throw cigarettes on the ground in front of anybody. | ||
| Because they're sabotaging their own body, they don't mind just throwing stuff on the ground, too. | ||
| It's sort of the same kind of a mentality. | ||
| I think so. | ||
| And perhaps if it's okay for me to smoke, it's okay for me to discard my cigarette. | ||
| You're going to breathe the smoke secondhand, so here's a but. | ||
| I really don't know. | ||
| I don't know the, the mentality that wants to sabotage what ultimately benefits you. | ||
| Um, look, if you're in a band that's doing great and you're not the primary songwriter or the primary singer, well, you should revel in what you have. | ||
| yeah. | ||
| Um, you know, the idea of equality, some have to be more equal than others, Everybody can be in the car together. | ||
| Somebody's got to drive. | ||
| We're all going the same direction. | ||
| But when people reach a point of saying, well, I want an equal amount of songs, well, do we leave off Strutter so we can put your song on, or do we leave off Detroit Rock City? | ||
| It doesn't work like that. | ||
| There's no... | ||
| I don't believe that there's any birthright or that we should expect a quota in anything. | ||
| We get what we deserve. | ||
| And somebody has to decide that. | ||
| Is that the most difficult thing about being in a band, is just managing all the egos and managing, you know, everybody has their own point of view where they're not getting appreciated or looked at with the proper respect? | ||
| That's often the situation in bands, and thankfully that's not the situation in our band. | ||
| Eric's been in and out of the band for 20 years, I think, at this point. | ||
| And Tommy's been around the band and been in the band, I think, over 10 at this point. | ||
| The key to a great band or any great situation is doing what's best for the situation, not what's best for you. | ||
| I don't have to be right. | ||
| I just want to see the right thing happen. | ||
| So if you're more tied up in the ego gratification or in the control factor, I honestly don't need to control anything. | ||
| But I do have a point of view, and I guess I've earned my place at this juncture. | ||
| Everybody gets a chance to stake their views, and hopefully they're always with the best intentions. | ||
| And I think that's the way the band works now. | ||
| We have a drummer who doesn't like to take a solo, and this guy could play a better solo with one hand than most drummers could play with every limb of their body. | ||
| So, everybody really, it's all for one and one for all. | ||
| You guys were one of the first bands that got really big doing live shows. | ||
| Like, your live shows were so spectacular that when you put a live album out, when you put out Kiss Alive and then Kiss Alive 2, Those albums were so big, like, I mean, and it's, obviously we're dating ourselves here, but just the albums, when you'd open up Kiss Alive 2, that big, silver, dynamic record, I mean, it was awesome! | ||
| And the performances were so intense, you know, it was so much fun to listen to that it really boosted you guys up. | ||
| And when I was a kid, it would really drive me fucking crazy that I didn't hear your songs enough on the radio. | ||
| And when I did hear one of your songs, I got super excited. | ||
| I got pumped. | ||
| But it was always like Detroit Rock City or Beth. | ||
| It was never like Cold Gin or one of the more obscure titles. | ||
| Cold Gin, not a very obscure song, but it was... | ||
| You guys became big almost in spite of the business. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I think to this day, we still retain a certain amount of being the black sheep. | ||
| We're still... | ||
| Look, it took 14 years for us to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. | ||
| Not that necessarily I lost any sleep over it, but... | ||
| Validation from critics and people like that has been something that's been a long time coming, but it's never been an issue because our success was based upon people, real fans, the people who buy tickets, buy albums, and stand by you. | ||
| So, certainly credibility and the stuff that the media would like to dictate is nothing that we've ever been a part of. | ||
| Didn't bother you at all? | ||
| Was it something that you came to get over, but did it bother you at all that you guys weren't getting the record play, or the radio play, rather, that you should have deserved? | ||
| Yeah, I was shocked in the beginning that some of the critics who made us their darlings when we were a nobody band in New York City, once we became successful, even in the earliest days, we sold out. | ||
| Well, what do you mean we sold out? | ||
| You know, you think I wanted to just be your band, you know, this one guy with his typewriter? | ||
| So, you know, we did this to succeed and to be slighted for success. | ||
| I never got it. | ||
| Bands like television or a lot of the bands that came out of New York that went nowhere, went nowhere because they sucked. | ||
| The critics may have liked them, but they were irrelevant today. | ||
| And in the scheme of things, even back then, they were irrelevant. | ||
| It's nice to know that there were hipsters even back then when it came to liking things that are obscure. | ||
| That's a weird draw, isn't it? | ||
| Well, you know, it's not unusual in certain circles that certain people want to outdo each other by knowing something more obscure than the... | ||
| Oh, yeah, you like that band? | ||
| Well, I know a band that hasn't even sold an album. | ||
| You know, I know a band that... | ||
| It has no strings on their guitars. | ||
| So it becomes absurd. | ||
| It becomes absurd. | ||
| We've been doing this 40 years. | ||
| We just did 42 shows in America to 600,000 people. | ||
| So the public speaks loudly, and they ultimately dictate what is and what isn't. | ||
| It's a very obscure or a very strange instinct to want to find obscure things or more obscure things than other people. | ||
| Well, somehow that validates your... | ||
|
unidentified
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Street cred? | |
| Yeah, your credibility that somehow you know something less popular. | ||
| Less popular! | ||
| What's the point? | ||
| Well, your music, what's crazy is the music just kept getting better. | ||
| And so for anybody saying that you sold out when the music was always great, but it kept getting better. | ||
| It wasn't like, that happens with bands. | ||
| Like, some bands only have a few albums in them. | ||
| And then, for whatever reason, whether it's the ego divide between the band members, or... | ||
| I mean, what is it, you think, that syncs? | ||
| I love what I do. | ||
| I love what I do. | ||
| I wake up every day and go, this is another blessed day. | ||
| And that keeps it all fresh. | ||
| I love music. | ||
| I love rock and roll. | ||
| I love R&B. To me, there's two kinds of music, good and bad. | ||
| There's so much great music. | ||
| There's so much great art. | ||
| There's family. | ||
| There's so much to do in your life that I love it. | ||
| And I don't see any reason to stop. | ||
| I don't see any reason to get old or stop. | ||
| I'm having a grand old time. | ||
| Well, we all get old. | ||
| There's no way to avoid that, right? | ||
| Yeah, but you can do it gracefully, but again, that's up to somebody's perception of what gracefully is. | ||
| I have no desire to really get old. | ||
| You know, did I ever think I'd look like this at my age? | ||
| No, but it's good. | ||
| How old are you now? | ||
| 62. You look great. | ||
| If I look like you at 62, I'll be happy as fuck. | ||
| I'm pretty happy. | ||
| I'm happy. | ||
| You know, my wife is spectacular. | ||
| I've got four great kids. | ||
| Life is great. | ||
| I make music. | ||
| I do the same thing now I did in junior high school. | ||
| I play the guitar in a rock band. | ||
| That's what I do. | ||
| I know, 62 is like, people think about like, oh, you're in your retirement years. | ||
| No, you're not fucking rocking in front of 20,000 people screaming their heads off. | ||
| Yeah, it's great. | ||
| It's certainly not what I thought it would be. | ||
| And that's part of the beauty. | ||
| A lot of times your perception of what something will be like in your life turns out to be completely false. | ||
| What we expect aging to be or what we expect certain people to be like, it's all based on preconceived notions that have no basis in reality. | ||
| Yeah, and this is the first generation, really, that's seeing rock stars deep into their 60s. | ||
| Just killing it. | ||
| You know, I mean, we thought of rock and roll as being a young person's game. | ||
| Well, it was. | ||
| It was, and with good reason. | ||
| When rock and roll first started, With the exception of certain artists, it really was a factory for record companies to create talent. | ||
| When you got tired of Fabian, they gave you Frankie Avalon. | ||
| When you got tired of Frankie Avalon, they gave you Jimmy Clanton. | ||
| They had all these teen idols and they just spoon-fed you and spoon-fed them songs. | ||
| Once you got tired of them, there was somebody else who came along. | ||
| Once bands started writing their own material, they got the chance to reflect their point of view, and as long as it reflected the fans' point of view, they could get older. | ||
| Rock and roll now has become much more like the blues, because you're constantly writing about your life, and as long as people can relate to it, you know, the day I start writing about... | ||
| You know, the butler didn't show up today or something like that. | ||
| Then you're fucked, you know? | ||
| Yeah, I saw Tim Allen go on stage once and he was talking about his Ferrari breaking down. | ||
| I just hung my head. | ||
| Yeah, I'm sure the whole audience is going, yeah, we got one of those too. | ||
| Yeah, I guess they forced him to not do stand-up while he was doing Home Improvement because he had sort of a risque act and that was like a very family-friendly show. | ||
| And then when he stopped doing it, he came back. | ||
| And when he came back, you know, he's... | ||
| His perspective is just so skewed. | ||
| He's this multi-millionaire, hugely famous guy, and what is he going to write about? | ||
| He writes about his fucking Ferrari breaking down. | ||
| Yeah, but you don't have to. | ||
| No, you don't. | ||
| You really don't. | ||
| I never became famous to cut myself off from the people who made me famous. | ||
| It was an escape for me. | ||
| I wanted it as an escape from a 9-to-5 job, but I never did it because I wanted to get away from life. | ||
| You know, if you go to the supermarket, I'm there pushing a cart. | ||
| You know, if you go to my kid's school, I'm there dropping them off. | ||
| You don't have a bunch of dudes at earpieces circling you, scanning the aisles, looking at the cereal aisle for strange folks. | ||
| That stuff is so pathetic. | ||
| And it's born out of a bunch of... | ||
| Spineless artists who need to be propped up by people around them who make them feel important. | ||
| The only reason you need all those bodyguards around you is because you got a lot of bodyguards around you. | ||
| If you just went about your business, you would give a shit. | ||
| But what if you like Justin Bieber? | ||
| What do you think about that pro little bastard? | ||
| What about if you were? | ||
| You know? | ||
| I mean, he's essentially what you were talking about before. | ||
| The people that the studios create, they write the songs for them, they put these artists, they prop them up, they put them into position. | ||
| But now here he is, this 20-year-old boy trying to manage essentially unmanageable fame. | ||
| Yeah, but it starts with your family and it starts with your parents. | ||
| And if your parents aren't there to give you a foundation and to be there to tell you when you're going off the rails, then you're in a lot of trouble. | ||
| So I really, when I see a kid in trouble, I look at the parents. | ||
| Yeah, well, that's a good point. | ||
| I've met his dad. | ||
| Seems like a nice fellow, but also seems like he could be one of my friends. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| When you see a young guy like that, like a young 20-year-old guy who's just ridiculously famous, and you think about your life and your career, you guys did it in a very unusual way. | ||
| And one of the things that was very unusual is that you wore makeup. | ||
| And that was such a slick move. | ||
| Because you guys were famous as shit, and no one knew what you looked like. | ||
| And that's a double-edged sword, too, because... | ||
| On one hand, I kind of craved the recognition that that guy, the star child, was getting, but I wasn't getting. | ||
| When you can go to a newsstand, and every magazine has your photo on the cover, and you're standing there, and nobody knows who you are. | ||
| They're just going, who's the tall guy with, you know, the high heels on? | ||
| So, it was... | ||
| But, you know... | ||
| All the time, it's always going to come down to, at the end of the day, you've got to face yourself. | ||
| And do you like who you are? | ||
| And are you a good person? | ||
| And are you living a good life? | ||
| And are you falling prey to, like, having salaried friends around you? | ||
| A posse. | ||
| Yeah, a posse. | ||
| You know, I didn't want a posse. | ||
| I wanted a pussy. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Now, did you ever, during this time where you're sort of craving recognition, when you guys were massively successful on the cover of all these magazines, did you ever want to just put the Starchild outfit on and just walk around with no makeup on and go, hey, look at this magazine. | ||
| Hmm, who's this guy look like? | ||
| It was difficult at times to, like... | ||
| Want to be in the audience at these award shows? | ||
| I mean, I was like everybody else. | ||
| You want to, you know, hobnob with all these people. | ||
| And we didn't go out or be seen publicly, you know, without the makeup. | ||
| So it was an interesting dichotomy, we can say. | ||
| Well, very few people have ever had that moment. | ||
| I mean, I don't think anybody could, like, someone could show Justin Bieber. | ||
| Like, you could bring him to someone else who had been famous very young, and they could perhaps give him some advice. | ||
| But nobody could really give you guys advice. | ||
| There was nobody that was a gigantic international superstar who was essentially unrecognizable without makeup on. | ||
| Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne. | ||
| But no! | ||
| That's a fucking ridiculous trick. | ||
| Clark Kent with his fucking glasses. | ||
| I'd spot him in a heartbeat. | ||
| Isn't that great? | ||
| You take off the glasses and it's like, I don't know who this guy is. | ||
| Yeah, it's ridiculous. | ||
| Even Bruce Wayne. | ||
| You can see the bottom of his face. | ||
| You're going to know who the fuck that guy is. | ||
| His friends are going to go, dude, your mouth looks a lot like Batman's mouth. | ||
| That's the beauty of fantasy and comic books. | ||
| Yes, the beauty of fantasy and comic books. | ||
| Well, you guys kind of merged those worlds. | ||
| Yeah, and we really have created these iconic figures and these personalities that exist with us and without us and will continue to exist, whether it's comic books or merchandise. | ||
| Movies at some point. | ||
| All kinds of things. | ||
| It's really interesting. | ||
| We created alter egos that are ultimately much bigger than we are and much more timeless than we are. | ||
| Your movie that you guys made, you were essentially superheroes in a movie. | ||
| Was it Phantom of the Paradise, is that what it was called? | ||
| No, that was... | ||
| Phantom of the Paradise, that was Paul Williams. | ||
| Right, that was that movie. | ||
| I don't know if that was any better. | ||
| What was the name of the movie? | ||
| Kiss Meets the Phantom, or Kiss Meets the Phantom of the Park. | ||
| I still have no idea what that film... | ||
| The end of the film, I have no idea what it was about. | ||
| That was a real debacle, a real disaster. | ||
| There have been some pitfalls along the way, and at some point our manager said, you know, we should do a film. | ||
| I was like, okay. | ||
| Nobody ever said to us, you don't know how to act. | ||
| You should take some acting lessons, and you might want to read the script. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| So, as soon as we started work on it, I remember just going, this sucks. | ||
| This is really bad. | ||
| And they would go, no, no, no. | ||
| This is like a Hard Day's Night meets Star Wars. | ||
| And I bought it. | ||
| You know, I bought it. | ||
| And I remember going over to Bill O'Coin, our manager, after one of the takes and going, this really is horrible. | ||
| And he's going, no, it's going to be great. | ||
| Well, it sucked. | ||
| That was a movie for TV, right? | ||
| Yes, but it actually played internationally in theaters. | ||
| And if you think the effects were bad on a television screen, you should see them blown up. | ||
| I mean, I had to go to a screening of it before it was shown on NBC. And it was on a big screen at the Screen Actors Guild. | ||
| And, you know, we're all going to concentrate. | ||
| And this box goes up in the air and you see the wires pulling it up. | ||
| But look, you know, this has been a great journey. | ||
| Nobody could make this stuff up. | ||
| No, nobody could make this stuff up. | ||
| But the path that you guys took really was a path that nobody had taken before. | ||
| I mean, you guys would go out in public. | ||
| You would wear, like, bandit masks and stuff. | ||
| You'd have, like, bandanas on your face. | ||
| People were trying desperately to take your photos. | ||
| Different time. | ||
| Now you have, you know, paparazzi are a breed at this point, whereas back then... | ||
| Literally, you could have somebody take your photo, and we would have guys run over and pull the film. | ||
| You can't do that kind of stuff now. | ||
| It was uncharted territory, I guess, at that point. | ||
| Well, now everyone's got a camera on their phone. | ||
| It's way more bizarre. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| I mean, you have people... | ||
| I'm downloading photos of celebs without their clothes. | ||
| Technology has tainted a whole lot of things as much as it's helped. | ||
| Well, it's just made the world very strange. | ||
| It has. | ||
| The difference between being famous then and famous now, how much of a contrast is it? | ||
| Big contrast. | ||
| It's probably the difference between what it was like to be president 50, 60, 70 years ago and today. | ||
| And the kind of scandals that Clinton or some of the other politicians have had, all that stuff was still going on back, you know, in the time of FDR or Kennedy. | ||
| But it was just – it wasn't public knowledge. | ||
| It wasn't – You didn't see somebody, somebody didn't walk out of a hotel bedroom with somebody else and have their picture taken, and all of a sudden it was all over the media. | ||
| So things have changed. | ||
| If you don't want people to know something, don't do it. | ||
| That's the only way now, right? | ||
| That's the only way. | ||
| There are no secrets. | ||
| There are none, because if there's you and somebody else, they know. | ||
| Is that good or is that bad? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It depends on how much bad stuff you're doing. | ||
| Well, I don't even know if you could say bad or good, but it seems like there's a lot of people that embrace it and exploit it. | ||
| Like, do you remember for a long time, it was like for a year or so, women were getting accidentally photographed with no panties on getting out of cars. | ||
| And it was pretty obvious by just the angle of the photograph. | ||
| Like, how the fuck do you not know there's a camera down there? | ||
| Yeah, some guys up down on his knees. | ||
| Yeah, not even on his knees. | ||
| I mean, he's spread out on his stomach with the camera up your dress. | ||
| They had to have known. | ||
| I mean, like Paris Hilton and a lot of these girls. | ||
| I have to say that there are people now who know how to manipulate and use the media to their advantage. | ||
| Some people can become famous for doing a porn film with some, you know, and leaking a film with them and... | ||
| Her name is Kim Kardashian. | ||
| You can call her my name, man. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah, you don't have to beat around the bush. | ||
| So to speak. | ||
| I don't think she has a bush. | ||
| That's also what's changed between then and now. | ||
| They're gone. | ||
| Porn won when it came to the aesthetic. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But, um... | ||
| Where are we going with this? | ||
| Well, we're not going anywhere. | ||
| But do you... | ||
| Could you... | ||
| When you see this day and age, could you imagine, if Kiss had started off today, how different things would be? | ||
| Oh, we'd be fucked. | ||
| I mean, in plain English, because... | ||
| The music industry as it exists today is not even an industry. | ||
| It's just shambles. | ||
| And now artists are in a position to have to take what the public, so to speak, is willing to give them. | ||
| In other words, with this onset of file sharing. | ||
| Well, file sharing is just a fancy way of saying stealing. | ||
| You can't share what you don't own. | ||
| The idea that somebody is taking songs or music off the internet and taking it for free and calling it file sharing is like me saying transportation borrowing and I steal your car. | ||
| Is it though? | ||
| Because if you steal my car, I don't have a car anymore. | ||
| But if you walk up to my car and make a copy of it and drive it off and I paid for the car but you didn't. | ||
| It doesn't work like that. | ||
| And when people create art with the... | ||
| Hope of being not only accepted, but also being rewarded so that they can pay their rent and send their kids to school and things like that. | ||
| And that doesn't happen. | ||
| That's what stealing does. | ||
| But the person who steals on the internet somehow doesn't feel the same as going into a store and stealing a cassette, which don't even exist anymore. | ||
| But if you go into a store, if you go into Barnes& Noble or someplace and steal a book, that's blatantly and very clearly illegal. | ||
| Downloading something somehow skirts the ethical and moral question of taking something that doesn't belong to you and not paying the person for it. | ||
| Look, for me, it's a question more about morality in my case. | ||
| It's not going to change my life any. | ||
| But it sure bothers me that somebody is taking what they don't own, and it bothers me that somebody who's trying to succeed now and starting off doesn't have a chance in hell, more than likely, of success. | ||
| Ever getting that pot of gold, you know? | ||
| But they get the pot of gold in a different way. | ||
| They get it through live performances. | ||
| They're not getting it through album sales. | ||
| Yeah, but that shouldn't be dictated to by the circumstances. | ||
| That should be a choice. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The idea, well, you're still getting it. | ||
| Well, who are you to decide where I get my money? | ||
| Well, you're still getting it over there. | ||
| But since when do you have jurisdiction over my revenue? | ||
| So... | ||
| I completely see your point, and I agree with you in a lot of ways, but I think that the reality of the times we're living in, like the digital world that we're living in, property is just, it's a very, it's a weird term when you talk about like digital property, like digital properties, things being downloaded. | ||
| So that's... | ||
| That's true, and that's a problem, but it doesn't change the truth. | ||
| And the truth is that what you don't own, you can't take for free. | ||
| You can, but it's wrong. | ||
| It's morally wrong, it's ethically wrong, and it hurts people. | ||
| When the whole Napster controversy was coming out, Lars Ulrich was the public whipping boy. | ||
| When he came out, Lars Ulrich from Metallica came out and he was saying, hey, you guys are stealing. | ||
| We're going to take you to court. | ||
| This is all theft. | ||
| The backlash was tremendous. | ||
| I mean, he was thought of as persona non grata. | ||
| I mean, people went after that guy with a vengeance. | ||
| A lot of artists sat back and waited to see how the dust settled on that. | ||
| Well, a lot of artists are wondering where their royalties are now. | ||
| You can't put milk back in a bottle, spilled milk, and unfortunately, things transpired that there's really no getting around at this point. | ||
| So, was Lars out of line? | ||
| No. | ||
| He was just saying, I should be paid. | ||
| It has nothing to do with whether he's wealthy or not. | ||
| Who are you to dictate that he has enough? | ||
| I agree with you, but I think the way people were looking at it that didn't have a vested interest in it, the way they were looking at it is, it's very obvious that the reality of the world that we're living in is changing radically, as far as access to information and songs. | ||
| Have become information. | ||
| Once they became digitized, they became ones and zeros. | ||
| They're art. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| I'm not diminishing it in any way, shape, or form, but that art becomes information when it becomes ones and zeros. | ||
| And once ones and zeros go online, they go online. | ||
| I mean, it's almost impossible to stem the tide. | ||
| And when you see a guy like Lars Ulrich stepping out there in the early days, When people maybe thought that there was a way to put a stop to this, when people didn't... | ||
| Napster was like the first thing. | ||
| People didn't really understand BitTorrent. | ||
| They didn't understand a lot of the other possibilities when it comes to downloading and sharing media. | ||
| But now, it seems inevitable. | ||
| Is there a way to sort of meet in the middle? | ||
| Like, I've always had this attitude where if someone sends me something or, you know, someone sends me a YouTube link to a song, if I like it, I immediately buy the album. | ||
| Immediately. | ||
| I go to iTunes, I buy it right then and there. | ||
| Even if I'm not planning on listening to it right now, I do it out of respect for the artist. | ||
| If there's a song that I'm curious to hear that I haven't heard in a long time, I buy it. | ||
| But what if someone sends you a YouTube clip? | ||
| Is that okay? | ||
| You mean the shitty quality? | ||
| You're listening to it on an iPhone or on a laptop or something like that? | ||
| Look, there's a can of worms open here, and I really don't know what the answer is, but I do know that technology does not take the place of morality. | ||
| I'm not arguing you there. | ||
| I'm saying, is it possible to incorporate the both of them? | ||
| Well, you were saying, is it possible to meet in the middle? | ||
| And I would say, why do I have to meet you in the middle? | ||
| Why do I have to compromise because of circumstance? | ||
| You should respect my integrity and you should respect my art instead of me going, all right, well, you got me, so I'll take 50 cents on the dollar instead of you giving me the dollar? | ||
| Wrong. | ||
| It's wrong. | ||
| I see what you're saying, but if someone sends you a link and says, hey, Paul, there's this fantastic band, you've got to listen to this, and it's a YouTube link, do you just not click it? | ||
| No, I'll certainly watch it. | ||
| How is that different than listening to the radio? | ||
| I mean, a lot of people found out about you guys. | ||
| From listening to a song on the radio, and then they went out and bought it. | ||
| Is it the immediate access, as opposed to something being broadcasted on the terms of the radio provider? | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| I would say that whenever money is changing hands, the artist should be a part of that. | ||
| So, if commercials are being showed on YouTube, and revenue is being, if there's a revenue stream, then the artist should be sharing in that. | ||
| It's an interesting question because if I saw a band on television, hopefully I would see somebody and go, gee, I want to go buy their album. | ||
| And I would go buy their album. | ||
| So it's a selling tool. | ||
| But whenever money is generated... | ||
| either first hand or second hand and there's an artist involved the artist should be compensated unquestionably but do you feel like there's a difference between someone who's selling like pirate copies like I used to always feel real uncomfortable with that when I'd be in New York And they would sell these pirate copies of VHS tapes. | ||
| Remember those? | ||
| Or even CDs. | ||
| When they first figured out CD burners, people would sell pirate copies of CDs. | ||
| Yeah, and I'd go, boy, is that wrong. | ||
| Yeah, that's wrong. | ||
| That's totally wrong. | ||
| That's someone profiting, though, right? | ||
| Well, sure. | ||
| Well, isn't YouTube profiting? | ||
| Yeah, maybe they are. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I'm sure they are. | ||
| But file sharing, they're not, right? | ||
| Well, file sharing, we go back to that. | ||
| People sharing... | ||
| Artistic material, sharing anything that should be paid for under some technical guise or jargon is just wrong. | ||
| Is there a way, though, to reconcile with the times? | ||
| I mean, it's not going to change. | ||
| File sharing is going to exist. | ||
| Was it Tom York and his band, didn't they do an album where they offered it on the internet and said, just pay what you would like for it? | ||
| Well, they got nothing. | ||
| Doesn't Radiohead do that? | ||
| Yeah, it was Radiohead. | ||
| Yeah, so they did it. | ||
| You know how much they got? | ||
| Nothing. | ||
| Didn't they get anything? | ||
| I thought they made some money off of that. | ||
| Find out. | ||
| Yeah, look and see what it averaged per album. | ||
| That's a total hippie move, right? | ||
| Pay what you want, man. | ||
| Yeah, it's a total, you know, total stupid move. | ||
| I don't think they'll do that again. | ||
| You don't think so? | ||
| No. | ||
| If they get high enough, they might. | ||
| Yeah, most of the time, the guy who wants to share the most has the least to share. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| That is so true. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That's very true. | ||
| I used to work out at this yoga studio, and it was a super hippie yoga place, and they used to have a basket. | ||
| You just pay whatever you want. | ||
| And I watched ladies pull up in their Range Rover, work out, and not put nothing in that basket. | ||
| He used to drive me crazy. | ||
| He used to drive me fucking crazy. | ||
| I'm like, You just pulled up in a Range Rover, you walked in, you did your yoga class, and you just left. | ||
| See, but I come from a different point of view. | ||
| I say to people as far as charities or anything else, you don't give until it hurts. | ||
| You give until it feels good. | ||
| You know what's in your pocket, and you know what's in your bank account, and that's how you should give. | ||
| You should give knowing what you can give as opposed to the idea that you give grudgingly. | ||
| I agree 100%. | ||
| But do you see a possible point of view, and I'm playing devil's advocate here, you see a possible point of view for a young, poor kid who doesn't have any money, who's a huge Kiss fan, who just, you know, wants to be able to listen to your music and just can't afford it, can't afford to buy it, and so he downloads a copy. | ||
| Is he stealing? | ||
| Sure, of course he's stealing. | ||
| Circumstances don't change morality. | ||
| Circumstances don't change what's ethically right and wrong. | ||
| If there was no internet... | ||
| Would it be okay because he really loves Kiss to go into a record store back then and steal a record? | ||
| Hell no. | ||
| I agree, but isn't it different where it's a physical copy that someone had to actually print up? | ||
| I mean, obviously your art created, it took a long time and a lot of effort and work and creativity to put together. | ||
| Does it really matter if it's on vinyl or if it's accessed through a computer? | ||
| The only difference is that if someone's accessing it to a computer, I could send you a copy of something, and it just takes five seconds. | ||
| I say, oh, here, have a copy of this. | ||
| So what? | ||
| But nobody loses. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Of course we do. | ||
| We do if you were actually going to buy it. | ||
| If you're going to buy it, I'm like, Paul, save your millions. | ||
| I'm going to give you this copy for free. | ||
| Well, then, you know, then maybe. | ||
| But if you weren't going to buy it anyway, and someone just gives it to you, is it possible? | ||
| I mean, that's one of the points of view that people have today, is If I wasn't going to buy a particular album, we're going back to records or cassettes, and you gave it to me, you already paid for it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| So, if you pay for something and then give it to me, okay, maybe there's a point there, but the idea that you took something for free and gave it to me, no. | ||
| Well, if I took something and I paid for it and made a copy of it, though. | ||
| Perhaps if it was one. | ||
| You know, we're splitting hairs. | ||
| We're splitting hairs. | ||
| But I completely respect your opinion, and I completely respect your point of view. | ||
| And mind you, it doesn't change my life one bit. | ||
| I think it's ethically and morally wrong, but my concern more is for somebody who's up and coming, or somebody who says, you know, I'm just doing this for the art of it. | ||
| Well, that's okay. | ||
| You don't need money. | ||
| Money may not matter to you until you need money. | ||
| You know, I've known people who said, you know, I'm just doing this because I love doing it and money's not important. | ||
| Well, that's because your bills are still paid. | ||
| When the bills stop being paid, money's going to be real important. | ||
| Yeah, people always say money doesn't buy you happiness. | ||
| You're absolutely totally correct, but being broke as fuck will make you sad That's true, too. | ||
| If you can't afford food and you have no place to live that makes you sad if you are Broke as fuck and then money comes along you will be happier because you will have food and you will have a place to sleep Well, you you certainly won't you certainly won't Saddle your unhappiness on the fact that you don't have food and | ||
| The great thing about having money and success, I found, is that you stop putting the onus on things that have no relevance ultimately to your happiness or your state of mind. | ||
| In other words, the idea, I'm not unhappy because the I don't have money to pay the bills. | ||
| I can pay the bills now, and I'm still unhappy. | ||
| What's going wrong? | ||
| So I think the great thing about becoming successful, hopefully, and sometimes it's people's downfall, and that's why people wind up with a shotgun in their mouth or a needle in their arm, is because they think that success is going to buy them happiness, and they wind up miserable. | ||
| And then you have to, you know, you have your come to Jesus moment when you decide, okay, what now? | ||
| You either spend a whole lot of money on psychiatry or therapy, or you start numbing yourself. | ||
| What I found is the moment I started making money, what happened was all of a sudden I felt a weight lifted off of me. | ||
| Where most of my life I was day to day, bill to bill, worrying about how I'm going to pay this, how am I going to pay my rent, put gas in my car. | ||
| And then when I started making money, all of a sudden that went away. | ||
| You know, I wasn't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I knew that I could pay my bills. | ||
| I was like, whoa, that's a huge relief that most people really never get to experience in their life. | ||
| Well, also... | ||
| People tend to go, if I had this, I would be happy. | ||
| The great thing about having that is finding out whether or not you truly are happy. | ||
| In my case, I was still pretty miserable, and that That's really what my book is about. | ||
| I had a New York Times number two bestseller, and the book is now in Swedish, Japanese, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, and on and on. | ||
| And really, I was born deaf on one side, without a right ear, and in a family that wasn't very supportive. | ||
| And... | ||
| I thought that success was going to be the key to contentment and happiness. | ||
| And like a lot of other people, I thankfully became successful only to find out that it didn't change anything. | ||
| And then the struggle becomes, okay, what's it going to take to be happy? | ||
| Isn't it fascinating that a lot of people that become really successful become really successful because of a hole? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Look, it takes a person with a plethora, a vast amount of insecurity to be comfortable in front of a crowd. | ||
| The fact that you want to get up in front of a crowd and get approval from a mass of people only says I mean, it speaks volumes about your lack of self-confidence. | ||
| So just the fact that you want to be an entertainer, a comedian, whatever it is, and be in the limelight, means that you're seeking approval that you innately don't have. | ||
| A disproportionate amount of need when it comes to attention, when it comes to love, usually corresponds to a lack of that in childhood. | ||
| Sure, absolutely. | ||
| Or in adulthood, You're satiating that need as an adult that probably was born out of your childhood. | ||
| But at that point, you can say, well, I can get this fixed every night by going in front of an audience. | ||
| Which is only temporary. | ||
| Or let's do some digging and figure out what's really wrong here. | ||
| And that will only enhance the performance and everything else. | ||
| It won't take the place of it. | ||
| It will embellish it. | ||
| So you changed your motivation. | ||
| Your motivation became instead of just get love, just get all this love and get all this fame and then I'll feel happy. | ||
| Then it becomes what? | ||
| The fact that there's all these people who drop like flies from all kinds of addictions is just proof that people can be famous and miserable and it doesn't really satiate what's wrong inside you. | ||
| Fame gives you an amazing opportunity to go out there and seek help. | ||
| And, you know, when I was in my teens, I walked into Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, went into the psychiatry division and went, I need some help. | ||
| When you were in your teens? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So it was before you were even famous. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| I've always been a survivor and somebody who wanted to... | ||
| Not only succeed, not only survive, but thrive. | ||
| So I found myself realizing that if I kept on the path that my parents were the role model for, I was going to be in a whole lot of trouble. | ||
| I wanted to become successful. | ||
| I loved music. | ||
| I certainly craved adulation, but I also knew that it wasn't really what was going to make me happy. | ||
| It wasn't going to make me content. | ||
| It's fascinating that you had the insight when you were just a teenager to realize that this is a path that's going to lead to doom. | ||
| I think a lot of people maybe brush that aside and actually have that within them. | ||
| I think instinctively we're animals and we sense danger and we know more than we think we know and then we intellectualize too much. | ||
| What was it that pushed you to actually go to a hospital and talk to a psychiatrist? | ||
| And my sister had a friend who was getting this outpatient therapy at Mount Sinai Hospital. | ||
| And I was like, I heard, and I went, really? | ||
| You pay $3 and you see somebody and you talk? | ||
| And I had no idea what therapy was all about. | ||
| I thought somebody sits in a room and tells you how to live your life. | ||
| And I took a bus to the subway, took a few subways, and walked in there and... | ||
| I knew I needed more than what I had, although I didn't know what it was that I needed. | ||
| But that was part of the search. | ||
| So is that what you would call depression? | ||
| I mean, what would you call it? | ||
| You know, being born with any kind of difference, any kind of facial difference, deformity or whatever, makes you incredibly not only vulnerable, but you're exposed to a point of... | ||
| Never being able to hide. | ||
| If you put on some ridiculous shirt with a monkey holding dumbbells or something... | ||
| Kettlebells. | ||
| Yeah, kettlebells. | ||
| If you put on a shirt that everybody starts laughing at, you go home and change. | ||
| But if you have a facial difference or you have something that sets you apart, you can never go home and change. | ||
| So the scrutiny that you're under is unbearable. | ||
| So that's something I went through from the time I was... | ||
| Preschool. | ||
| And you start to build up defenses. | ||
| And at some point, you don't even know who you once were. | ||
| So that's what it was all born out of. | ||
| And I'm not the person who lives with a toothache. | ||
| I'm the person who goes and gets the root canal. | ||
| I don't want to suffer. | ||
| I want to dig and go through what's ever ugly and work it out. | ||
| That's really what my whole life's been about. | ||
| I couldn't have written my book if I'm still in the midst of that depression and insecurity and unhappiness and unfulfilled. | ||
| I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me. | ||
| I've had spectacular women. | ||
| I've had more great times than anybody could ever imagine. | ||
| They were transitory, but they were spectacular. | ||
| But happiness ultimately comes from the most simple things. | ||
| Interaction with people, great friends, family, and inner contentment. | ||
| When you step off the stage, you leave that crowd. | ||
| Look, I did shows at Madison Square Garden, and you may have been at one of them. | ||
| Where I would walk off stage after 18,000 people went crazy and I went to a deli by myself and went, nobody would fucking believe I'm here by myself and I just stepped off this stage. | ||
| So there's a huge chasm between who you are in the public and who you are off stage. | ||
| And the person off stage is the person you have to live with. | ||
| And managing that bizarre dichotomy, the sensory input, must be very strange, too. | ||
| Going from one to the other. | ||
| Incredible extremes. | ||
| It's a huge struggle, and it takes a lot of people down. | ||
| And no one can tell you how to do it, either. | ||
| No one else knows. | ||
| No, Paul, you're going to be fine. | ||
| Like, what the fuck are you talking about? | ||
| And it's the same thing. | ||
| I can't give anybody advice. | ||
| I can tell you what I did. | ||
| But that it's going to work for you is beyond presumptuous. | ||
| It's idiotic for me to... | ||
| I never spent a day, a week... | ||
| I've never spent a minute in your shoes. | ||
| I have no idea what your life is like. | ||
| So my advice... | ||
| I can't say, do it this way. | ||
| You have to figure it out. | ||
| Well, I think better than advice, what you've done is, in your book, explaining with extreme honesty how you felt about those situations, how you felt as a young man growing up with this situation with your ear. | ||
| You give people insight into someone who, you know, a lot of people who look at you and they go, this guy's never had a hard day in his life. | ||
| He's fucking Paul Stanley, man. | ||
| Like, look at him up there. | ||
| I mean, come on. | ||
| He's the lead singer of fucking Kiss. | ||
| Come on and love me. | ||
| Yeah, and the great thing. | ||
| Very good. | ||
| Come on, man. | ||
| How could you be sad? | ||
| How could it be bad? | ||
| But how great a feeling to be able to say to people, you know something? | ||
| I'm not that different than you are. | ||
| But you're not. | ||
| You really are. | ||
| And I'm really not. | ||
| That is the key, right? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| I think separating yourself from people or not sharing with them how much you are like them does a disservice to both. | ||
| You know, look... | ||
| I make the analogy, you know, you can live your life like that. | ||
| Sure, it protects you, but you get nothing. | ||
| You know, you can hit people and push them away, but it's not until you're willing to open up your hand. | ||
| Giving becomes its own reward, whether you're giving to people with support or inspiration or you're giving people monetarily. | ||
| Charity or a charitable spirit is ultimately the most rewarding, you know, one of the most rewarding things I've ever been able to experience is giving and helping others. | ||
| Giving till it feels good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like you said. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I agree with that. | ||
| I think being generous is a very underrated activity. | ||
| And until you do it. | ||
| And quite honestly, when it was explained to me, it seemed ridiculous. | ||
| But when you stop judging other people and you accept, look, it's very easy to look at some guy panhandling on the street and say, why don't you go get a job? | ||
| You have no idea what that person is living or what nightmare he goes through or she goes through every day. | ||
| Would giving them some money or giving them some food really change your life any? | ||
| Maybe it'll help them. | ||
| But what do you have to lose? | ||
| It should feel good to do that instead of kicking somebody who's down. | ||
| It's a small person who tries to make someone else feel smaller. | ||
| Well, you've done a great job in your book of... | ||
| Being vulnerable and very open and in a way that a lot of people fail when it comes to autobiographies. | ||
| Autobiographies are very tricky animals. | ||
| George Orwell said that the autobiography is the most outrageous form of fiction. | ||
| And that's probably why I never wanted to write one, because to just bolster yourself up or to have bragging rights about something that may not have even happened is pointless. | ||
| For me, the epiphany came when I realized that I could write a book that my children would benefit from when they were old enough. | ||
| I have a 20-year-old and a 3-year-old. | ||
| So, my 20 year olds read it and I think it's important for when you're successful for your children to know what it took for you to become successful and that it perhaps wasn't as easy and that the road wasn't as smooth. | ||
| So, my whole reason to write My story started there, but then it started to snowball in the sense that I began to realize that there's a lot of people out there who could use some inspiration and also some insight because we all tend to think of ourselves as singular and nobody's like us. | ||
| Boy, I'm fucked up and nobody else, you know, goes through this. | ||
| And when somebody else says, hey, I'm afraid of this or I'm afraid of that. | ||
| Oh, you are too? | ||
| We feel much more secure and bonded when we share what we have in common. | ||
| Yeah, without a doubt. | ||
| Without a doubt. | ||
| And I think that, like I said, I think you've done a great service by being so open in a very difficult way. | ||
| And it's very rare for rock stars, especially, to open themselves up and be vulnerable. | ||
| If they do, it's always about some shit they don't do anymore. | ||
| Like, oh, I was doing fucking heroin, and I was shooting up right before I got on stage. | ||
| But I'm done with that now. | ||
| I've been clean for a couple hours, and I wrote a book. | ||
| Look, everybody has their path, and I would never trivialize addiction because addiction is well documented. | ||
| It's a disease that some of us are predisposed to. | ||
| And those people, I say, look, if you are predisposed to that and if it runs in your family, get help before you get into addiction. | ||
| Before you get into the alcohol, if you feel that urge, much better to start controlling it before you immerse yourself in it. | ||
| You know, look, I'm a rock star. | ||
| I'm a musician, whatever you want to call it. | ||
| But I'm a person. | ||
| I'm a dad. | ||
| I'm a husband. | ||
| So, I don't... | ||
| How I live my life should... | ||
| How anybody lives their life should not be dictated by their profession. | ||
| So, oh, you know, this is a great book because rock stars don't... | ||
| I go, you know, I'm a rock star... | ||
| Maybe two hours a night when I'm on tour. | ||
| You have to have a real life, a complete life. | ||
| Otherwise, you're shortchanging yourself and probably shortchanging other people. | ||
| I know a lot of people, particularly in bands or film actors, who don't want to go home. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| They don't want to go home because they have nothing. | ||
| They either don't have family or they don't have something that satisfies them and makes them feel whole. | ||
| And I think what we all owe ourselves, I certainly think so, is to go out and find what you need to feel contentment without the approval of the masses. | ||
| I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I think that a lot of rock stars, a lot of actors, they want to portray an image, and that image is very valuable to them. | ||
| They want to, what they call, protect their brand. | ||
| And by divulging any past insecurities, or by showing any chinks in their armor emotionally, they feel like, you know, somehow or another this will be either used against them, or it'll diminish the publication. | ||
| Well, it's the Wizard of Oz. | ||
| Perception becomes reality. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| And if you put something out there and people buy it, That's who you are. | ||
| However, the problem with it is that other people will see you as what you've put out there, but you know you're not. | ||
| That's a real heavy cross to bear. | ||
| To accomplish what you set out for and have the public perceive you to be something amazing and still you feel like crap. | ||
| I recommend figure out what you need to feel good about yourself because you're going to need that constant fix of people telling you you're great and the moment it stops, you ain't great. | ||
| I've never had a problem with depression but I've had a lot of friends who have and so I've always wondered what is the cause, whether it's circumstantial, whether it's the experiences that they have in their life, whether it's genetic, whether it's a combination of both. | ||
| For you, when you started to get over this, like when you're 19, how old were you when you went to the Sea of Sinai? | ||
| I started therapy when I was probably 16. 16. So you're 16, you go into this doctor's office. | ||
| How long was it? | ||
| Because this is before. | ||
| How old were you when you guys hit it big? | ||
| 20, let's see, 21, maybe 22, something like that. | ||
| God damn, that's young. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| That must have been nuts. | ||
| Yeah, it's like getting the keys to the candy store and eating lots of candy. | ||
| No, it's getting the keys to the fucking factory. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You can make your own candy. | ||
| Make your own candy. | ||
| Say, hey, why don't you put some more sprinkles in this? | ||
| All right, Paul. | ||
| What do you want, man? | ||
| Yeah, what do you want? | ||
| Sprinkles in the shape of a star. | ||
| Let's do it. | ||
| So depression... | ||
| I needed a lifeline, and that's what therapy was for me. | ||
| I don't know that it changed my life initially, but it changed... | ||
| Look, if you go work out, when you first start working out, you don't see results immediately, but you have the hope, and the hope is what drives you, is the desire in knowing that if I do this... | ||
| The end product will be satisfying. | ||
| So therapy is no different. | ||
| Therapy, like everything else, it's not an immediate gratification or immediate solution, but it gives you the knowledge that you're on a path. | ||
| I'm doing something about this. | ||
| I'm working towards a goal. | ||
| I want to lose that stomach. | ||
| I want to do 10 more reps, whatever it is. | ||
| So that's what it was for me. | ||
| And then I stopped for a while. | ||
| And when the band started to make it, I called a psychiatrist and said, I need... | ||
| This ride is about to begin, and I'm going up on the roller coaster, and there's no getting off now, and I need something to hold on to. | ||
| What was your main concern? | ||
| That's a tough one. | ||
| Well, the pitfalls of success and the vices are all tied up with, once again, insecurities. | ||
| So either you're numbing yourself or you're participating in drugs because it's cool or You know, there's all kinds of poisons out there, and when they're available, it's kind of hard to say no. | ||
| It's kind of hard to say no. | ||
| I just thought I'd go off the rails a bit. | ||
| Not a bit. | ||
| I was thinking, this is a recipe for disaster. | ||
| It's amazing that you had that kind of insight as a young man, experiencing fame, especially with your background, your childhood, being bullied and feeling insecure, and then all of a sudden it's all coming at you and you're like, whoa, I don't think my fucking surfboard can handle this wave. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| And that's actually what it was. | ||
| It was like, whoa, I am not equipped for this. | ||
| I want this, and I've worked my ass off to get it, but wow, now it's in front of me. | ||
| That's a big ass wave. | ||
| So yeah, I paddled out against the current, and then I had to ride the wave. | ||
| I just find it very admirable that you were able to see that so early and so young. | ||
| That's a very rare quality. | ||
| So I hear. | ||
| So I hear. | ||
| But that being said, the great thing is I've talked to other kids. | ||
| I've talked to kids with facial problems. | ||
| I've talked to their parents. | ||
| And that's something that's cathartic. | ||
| That's something that's great for me because once I started sharing my issues and the struggles that I had, I could see that I was lightening the load for somebody else. | ||
| It's very easy for parents to say, oh, you're just like everybody else. | ||
| I think most of that comes out of guilt. | ||
| I think most of that comes out of, you want to believe that because you feel terrible for your child, but your child doesn't need to hear that. | ||
| Your child needs to hear Yeah, life is tougher for you. | ||
| I'll sit down with a kid and say, I don't know what you've heard, but life is tougher for you. | ||
| But it can have a happy ending. | ||
| But it won't be as easy as it is. | ||
| The playing field's not level for everybody. | ||
| And yeah, yours is going to be a harder path to go. | ||
| And I try to sit with parents and say, listen, your kid's not looking for a solution from you when he tells you what's bothering him. | ||
| He's looking to be validated. | ||
| He just wants to be heard. | ||
| And if you minimize what he's saying, how often do you think he's going to talk to you or she's going to talk to you? | ||
| So it's a great sense of... | ||
| Satisfaction of being able to go out there and give something back. | ||
| It's really one of the greatest gifts of my life, is being at a point now where I can give back and feel like I'm doing something other than making people happy with music. | ||
| And make an impact not just one-on-one, but you could reach millions. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Obviously, this book, Face the Music, seems to have resonated with people because it's not being looked at as another one of those rock and roll autobiographies, which honestly really should be on a roll of tissue paper, so you could use it for something more appropriate. | ||
| But, you know, it seems to resonate with people, and the word I hear from people is that they're inspired by it. | ||
| And, you know, my journey is not that different than somebody else's, and maybe it makes it easier knowing that somebody who you look up to is on the same path. | ||
| Unquestionably, it makes it easier. | ||
| Did you ever go off the rails at all? | ||
| Did you ever have a moment where you indulged in drugs or alcohol or anything crazy? | ||
| No, I mean, drinking was always... | ||
| Life's too short to drink bad wine, you know, and one of the great things is to be able to afford good wine. | ||
| So, but my early days, yeah, I drank and drugs, little, you know, a little dabbling, but it was different back then because people... | ||
| People didn't see the correlation between certain drugs and working your way to other drugs. | ||
| And look, I saw in my neighborhood, kids were doing acid and getting, you know, put in the booby hatch. | ||
| You know, people were getting committed. | ||
| The booby hatch? | ||
| I haven't heard that in a long time. | ||
| Well, you know, I'm a little older than you. | ||
| The boobie hatch. | ||
| The boobie hatch. | ||
| In the nuthouse. | ||
| So I stayed away from... | ||
| Even then I said, well, acid for me, that's like a one-way trip. | ||
| I know I buy that ticket. | ||
| I'm not coming back. | ||
| So there were certain things I didn't do. | ||
| My indulgence was always sex. | ||
| And that was a good one. | ||
| That was pretty awesome. | ||
| So how does a psychiatrist or a psychologist, whichever one it is, how does someone help a guy like you? | ||
| Because I would think that you would have to have some sort of perspective. | ||
| Like if a person is, if I come to a psychiatrist and say, hey man, I'm an insurance salesman, and I don't know what it is, but I'm miserable, I can't find any happiness in my life, and this is what I'm doing, I'm self-sabotaging, this is what I'm doing wrong. | ||
| But when someone comes to a psychiatrist or a psychologist and says, Hey, I'm the lead singer of one of the biggest fucking bands in the world. | ||
| The hottest band in the world! | ||
| Yes! | ||
| You show up. | ||
| What are they going to say? | ||
| What can they tell you? | ||
| Hey, you fucking... | ||
| I saw that chick you were with. | ||
|
unidentified
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She's hot. | |
| You're doing great, man. | ||
| Jesus Christ, I drove by your house the other day. | ||
| Holy shit, you live in a castle. | ||
| What are you complaining about? | ||
| What are you, a whiner? | ||
| Get out of here. | ||
| Honestly, I think the truth is always the truth and the foundation for an insurance salesman is no different than the foundation for any rock star or what have you. | ||
| I think having a strong sense of self and having a good sense of what the world is and isn't. | ||
| I think a lot of times Part of what makes us feel so in doubt is our misconceptions of what other people are thinking or what other people are going through. | ||
| Again, it goes back to, I'm not normal. | ||
| I have all these fears and doubts, and they don't. | ||
| So a lot of times I think we need to have our perspective integrated so that we understand that we're not that different than other people and also whatever issues we have, we get to talk about and somebody kind of helps us reflect and points us in the right direction. | ||
| Look, I first walked into a therapist thinking they were going to say, okay, here's what you do and you'll be fine. | ||
| And there's none of that. | ||
| It's mainly, I call it the best conversation in town. | ||
| You talk and somebody throws something back at you and asks you a question about something. | ||
| So it's really you teaching yourself. | ||
| But it's not something you can do on your own. | ||
| I mean, you can't read a self-help book and change your life. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| Really? | ||
| You don't think so? | ||
| Except face the music. | ||
| That can change your life. | ||
| You don't think that people can read a self-help book and be inspired and maybe perhaps change the direction even slightly? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And I think that, if anything, it should make you aware that maybe there's someone out there or something out there that can take you the next step. | ||
| I think a book can open your eyes. | ||
| I think a book can inspire you. | ||
| If it's a metaphor for anything else, I think we all need somebody else. | ||
| We all need somebody else's hand. | ||
| So when you were 16 and you first started going to this guy or gal, whoever it was, and you sat down and you start going over your life, how do they sort of mold you into a happier person or give you the tools to mold yourself into a happier person? | ||
| That's a good question. | ||
| I don't really remember. | ||
| I think it was more, like I said before, it's just a lifeline, just a dialogue. | ||
| I don't think primal therapy, primal scream therapy is a great analogy, but I think it's all about... | ||
| Purging. | ||
| I think it's all about talking and getting things out and having somebody help you to understand or pose questions to you, you know, juxtapose. | ||
| I think it's really about talking. - I think. | ||
| What did Freud call it? | ||
| The talking cure. | ||
| In talking, just the process of going over these ideas with someone who gives you a different perspective or gives you... | ||
| We show up every week and it's kind of like, what did you do this week? | ||
| And you can talk about things and talk about relationships or what somebody you're going out with said and how you responded or what you think. | ||
| And somebody could pose a question or ask you, what do you think? | ||
| It's really just a great conversation where somebody is leading you, perhaps, to look at things a little differently. | ||
| And maybe it changes the wiring. | ||
| over a period of time Well, I've got to imagine that the wiring gets screwed up because of negative input. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| So it's almost like, I really believe, in my case and a lot of people's, it's like learning to walk again. | ||
| You can't run before you walk. | ||
| You can't get on with your life until the basics are in place. | ||
| And if the basics were misconstructed when you were a child, an infant, a toddler, whatever, then you can never build a structure. | ||
| You've got to go back down and rebuild. | ||
| So I think that's what therapy does. | ||
| It may deal with what is going on in the present, but ultimately it's got to get to the core because you can't change things unless you change the wiring. | ||
| The most simplistic wiring is what's responsible for what comes later. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Welcome to Psychology Today. | ||
| It's important to talk about, man. | ||
| It's very rare that someone ever gets a chance to hear a guy like you discuss this stuff so openly and bravely and honestly. | ||
| Interestingly, I don't think it's brave. | ||
| I don't think it's brave because the people who don't talk about it I haven't come to terms with it and maybe haven't rewired, fixed themselves, come to grips with things in their life. | ||
| To me, it's just, it's reality and there's no vulnerability attached to it. | ||
| I think when you're still in the midst of it, you don't want to divulge certain things because it's not only inappropriate, but it can come back to be used against you. | ||
| Once you start sharing your vulnerabilities and you're still vulnerable, then people can use them. | ||
| I'm really talking about the past. | ||
| And that's safe and actually in some ways probably cathartic, therapeutic. | ||
| But for somebody to... | ||
| It would be inappropriate for somebody who's got certain... | ||
| Problems, neuroses, whatever you want to call them, for them to divulge them and then have somebody use them against them. | ||
| I'm not in that position anymore. | ||
| I'm talking about a journey that got me to this place in my life now, which is a great place. | ||
| And I always felt that if somebody uses them against you, if you share something with someone that uses it against you, then you know what kind of person that is. | ||
| Right, but that's a tough lesson to learn, and why put yourself in that position? | ||
| Yeah, without a doubt. | ||
| When you started taking off, and you realized, like, okay, this is all, we're on the roller coaster, click, click, click, click, click. | ||
| Did you start bringing a psychiatrist on the road with you? | ||
| Oh, God, no. | ||
| No? | ||
| No. | ||
| So how long would you go on the road for? | ||
| So if I was on the road, maybe once a week I would make a phone call. | ||
| I heard somebody saying, you know, I was on the phone every day. | ||
| But then again, that person doesn't remember what they did yesterday. | ||
| But no, I mean, it doesn't need to consume you. | ||
| And a therapist isn't a Svengali. | ||
| They're not a puppet master. | ||
| But in an appropriate time in your life, go as often as you feel you need to. | ||
| The issue would be if you did that your whole life, that would probably say to me that you're not making a whole lot of progress. | ||
| And I would say a therapist is no different than anyone else. | ||
| There's brain surgeons, there's neurosurgeons, and there's brilliant neurosurgeons. | ||
| But then again, it's also a matter of what works with you. | ||
| If you have some sort of synchronicity, simpatico, whatever you want to call it with somebody, you'll get much farther. | ||
| And if you don't find yourself getting somewhere, then maybe you need to move on. | ||
| I had a very biased idea of therapy when I was younger because I worked with actors, and they were so self-indulgent. | ||
| When they were talking about their therapy, I'm like, this is just giving you another fucking opportunity to talk about yourself. | ||
| That's what this is. | ||
| Well, yeah. | ||
| Actors are very funny, and I have to say that at one point in my life, I decided that musicians were just... | ||
| A lot of them are very, very narrow in their pursuits outside of music. | ||
| And I found that really, really boring to get together and all somebody wants to talk about is like guitars or something. | ||
| So I said, I'm going to hang out with actors. | ||
| And I started hanging out. | ||
| A friend of mine owned a bar in New York and I... I was there every night and became friends with a whole lot of people. | ||
| And I found out, my gosh, these people only want to listen to me talk so they get their turn. | ||
| And they just want to talk about themselves. | ||
| And that's not a generalization. | ||
| That's just my experience. | ||
| Because I don't want everybody calling me up and saying, Are you talking about me? | ||
| No, I'm not talking about you. | ||
| But there are certainly a lot of people in the performance field who love the spotlight and tolerate you speaking so that they get their chance. | ||
| Yeah, going from musicians to actors looking for depth is like going from a pool to the ocean looking for wetter water. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, I remember going to a party at... | ||
| Lee Strasberg's house, who's arguably one of the gurus of method acting. | ||
| And all the famous people were there, and we were all in the living room. | ||
| And they all seemed so unhappy. | ||
| I was thinking, I want to create from joy. | ||
| I don't want to create from misery. | ||
| And, you know, it's like I wanted to have an umbrella. | ||
| I wanted an umbrella because it seemed to be raining in this place. | ||
| But I know certainly there are a lot of people in different fields of the art who feel that their creativity is based on their being unhappy or their, you know, discontent. | ||
| I don't want to paint from there. | ||
| I don't want to sing from there. | ||
| I think it's a trap. | ||
| We've experienced the same thing with stand-up comedians. | ||
| A lot of stand-up comedians almost believe that you have to be miserable outside of being on stage in order to create, and that your reward for being miserable is that when you're killing, when you're on stage and everybody's dying laughing, this is what you get to experience that other people don't, so that when you're not doing this, you're a miserable fuck. | ||
| You're supposed to be running around frumpy and scrumpled. | ||
| Yeah, you know better than I do, but I've certainly met my share of miserable comedians. | ||
| I've met a lot. | ||
| I think that's changing a bit. | ||
| People are becoming more aware of the fact that there's no individual singular path to any creative endeavor, whether it's music or whether it's painting. | ||
| There's a lot of different ways to do it, and you could be really good at it without being miserable. | ||
| Yeah, there are people, and I certainly experience people who are afraid to be happy because it will affect their creativity. | ||
| And I gotta tell you, you know, happiness is probably the best additive to creativity. | ||
| When I was young, this is how stupid I was, when I first started doing stand-up comedy, I actually stopped meditating because I was worried. | ||
| I was like, if I become too calm and if I achieve any sort of enlightenment, this will fuck up my subject matter. | ||
| Because part of being a stand-up comedian is about kind of being rude or at least being shocking in a way. | ||
| At least I thought that. | ||
| I was like, I can't be meditating. | ||
| I can't be going to yoga. | ||
| I gotta get this out of my head. | ||
| Yeah, but that sharpness and peace of mind and contentment that can come from yoga therapy, a happy home life, whatever, is something that can really enhance whatever your creative outlet is. | ||
| And it's just always interesting to see people who are afraid to be happy. | ||
| Yeah, there's many engines of motivation. | ||
| They don't always necessarily have to be negative. | ||
| And that's why I was curious about your approach, because you were coming from this place of negativity, but you figured out how to channel it into a positive perspective. | ||
| Yeah, but what was I singing about? | ||
| I was singing about... | ||
| Getting laid. | ||
| I was singing about partying. | ||
| And that was terrific. | ||
| What was lacking was some of the other inner skills. | ||
| But I sang about... | ||
| Nobody was interested in... | ||
| I mean, what do you want to hear songs about? | ||
| Me being miserable? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's the day, man. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I was having a grand old time and reveling in... | ||
| In everything I had. | ||
| I grew up wanting a Playboy Playmate. | ||
| I got all that stuff, and it was terrific. | ||
| The great thing about having things is it gives you a chance to see whether you really want it. | ||
| And that's pretty cool. | ||
| People spend their lives sometimes chasing things that they never get. | ||
| I've been very fortunate. | ||
| I've pretty much gotten everything I chased. | ||
| And some of it, it was all worth having, but it wasn't all worth keeping. | ||
| So what you thought it would be before you got there was different. | ||
| Sometimes I thought that certain things would be the solution. | ||
| Like a Playboy Playmate? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, for Thursday it was a solution. | ||
| But, you know, look, again... | ||
| My life's been awesome. | ||
| Awesome. | ||
| And it got me to here. | ||
| And when you hear poor me, when you hear people talking, poor me, it's so lonely. | ||
| My life's been great. | ||
| And it's all led me to where I am now. | ||
| And I have nothing but great memories and no regrets. | ||
| So you don't have to go to therapy at all anymore? | ||
| You don't do any of that? | ||
| I go sometimes once. | ||
| If I can, I go once a week. | ||
| Once a week? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| As I said, to me, it's not laying on a couch and trying to figure out minutiae. | ||
| It's really a great... | ||
| If you have a great therapist, it's a great conversation. | ||
| Literally, hey, here's what I did. | ||
| I did this this week. | ||
| I call it life school. | ||
| It's just kind of... | ||
| I don't expect somebody else to be able to tell me what the answer is. | ||
| They probably don't have the answer for them. | ||
| When we put therapists or doctors, when we put anybody on a pedestal, we're on dangerous ground. | ||
| These are just people. | ||
| They have their own issues. | ||
| They may be great at helping you, but it doesn't mean that they have the answer for them. | ||
| We're all out there trying to figure it out. | ||
| Them too. | ||
| Yeah, even like the Dalai Lama. | ||
| I mean, the Dalai Lama doesn't have sex. | ||
| And he only wears orange. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Does he have a swollen hand or anything? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Nope. | |
| No? | ||
| Nope. | ||
| He believes it's too complicated. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I can simplify it. | |
| Can you hook him up? | ||
| Yeah, it's much simpler than he thinks. | ||
| That's the problem. | ||
| Yeah, I've always found issues with people that choose this monastic lifestyle, seeing that that's like the most simple path. | ||
| But you're missing out on some of the most beautiful joys of life because you believe that you can't handle relationships or you can't handle being a father or you can't handle the pursuit of art or whatever you're doing. | ||
| Well, you know, to take the other side of the coin, maybe they're right. | ||
| About them. | ||
| You know, it's like when somebody says, wow, you know, so-and-so is missing out by not having children. | ||
| I go, not really, because chances are they wouldn't get out of it what you're getting out of it. | ||
| So, you know, it's very easy to project, and it's called transference. | ||
| You know, it's very easy to imagine your feelings on somebody else or your life on somebody else. | ||
| It doesn't always go that way. | ||
| So if the Dalai Lama or anybody else is happy, you know, leading some sort of monastic life or being celibate or whatever, He thinks he's happy. | ||
| He's never been one of them Paul Stanley orgies, like on those album covers, one of those gigantic heart-shaped beds, and you've got 50 tens swarming you. | ||
| He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. | ||
| It's hard. | ||
| It's hard to be you. | ||
| He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. | ||
| Yeah, I've always been very conscious about not projecting that to other people when it comes to how much... | ||
| Children has changed me that you need to do it because I used to resent that when I was single and people talk to me about oh You need to get married and have kids but get the fuck out of here like no man kids change I'm better because of kids. | ||
| Yeah, you need to have kids in your life You need to fuck off. | ||
| Yeah, you know like I hate proselytizing so when people would do that I'm very conscious. | ||
| There's nothing worse than a reformed hooker, right? | ||
| Or a reformed alcoholic. | ||
| Those people are brutal too. | ||
| Go about your life and understand and realize that everybody has their own path and that what worked for you and is working for you may have absolutely no relevance to their life whatsoever. | ||
| You know, somebody a couple of days ago was saying to me, you know, again, so-and-so, when I see people that don't have kids, I really think they're missing out. | ||
| I go, they may be missing out on nothing because they're not equipped to have kids or they wouldn't get what you're getting out of it or what you're getting out of your relationship or your marriage. | ||
| Some people, you know, everybody just needs to find their own contentment, whether it's in an orange robe or underneath an orange robe with a blonde. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I just think it's hard for some folks to balance that perspective, to say, you know, they think of how much they love their children, how much they love their family, and they couldn't imagine being without it. | ||
| So they see someone, they say, well, you can't possibly be happy because you're not living my life. | ||
| Well, it goes a step further. | ||
| I always say to people, look, never think that when somebody tells you something, it means the same thing as if you said it. | ||
| If somebody says, I love you, Don't for a minute think that they define love the same way you do. | ||
| You need to say, what do you mean? | ||
| Because somebody will do something and you'll go, I thought you loved me. | ||
| And they go, I do love you. | ||
| My love means I'm allowed to steal from you. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| File sharing. | ||
| Because it's all digital. | ||
| It's all zeros. | ||
| No, but it's so easy to – in relationships, you'll hear somebody say something, and you just take for granted, oh, they can mean something totally different. | ||
| It's always important to say to somebody, what do you mean? | ||
| What does that mean to you? | ||
| Yeah, the context of words, you know, just words by themselves. | ||
| You know, you really need, and also everyone has their own sort of internal definitions of things. | ||
| Like you have to kind of establish that when you get to know people and figure out whether or not you really want them in your life. | ||
| My life became so much simpler when I cut most people out of it. | ||
| Really, truly. | ||
| And I recommend it for everybody. | ||
| Toxic people. | ||
| They're real. | ||
| Yeah, nobody in my life that is there because I feel obligated. | ||
| Nobody is there because I have to have a business relationship with them. | ||
| There's nobody around me that I can't look in the eye and go, I want to be here. | ||
| So once you cut all that stuff out, life becomes much, much easier, you know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And if someone cuts you out, maybe you need to step back and go, hey, maybe I'm a douche. | ||
| Maybe I need to look at myself a little bit better. | ||
| This guy decided I was toxic. | ||
| Yeah, you know, and it's also great to be with somebody who you respect who can tell you when you're being an idiot, you know? | ||
| Yes, huge, yeah. | ||
| Trying to be able to take the hits. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| The greatest advances often come from the lowest lows, like to realize, like, okay, this is a complete failure. | ||
| Let's put the pieces back together again and figure out why I failed and then move forward. | ||
| You can't really relate to that because you became a rock star when you were 21. The person who succeeds is the one who continued after they failed. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And made the adjustments. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Everybody has dealt with failure, and the person who fails ultimately is the one who didn't continue on. | ||
| Well, that's why it's so fascinating to me and admirable that you were able to make these adjustments very early on. | ||
| Well, I certainly started early on. | ||
| And perhaps if I had known how long it would take to see those adjustments come to some sort of fruition, maybe I would have thought twice about it. | ||
| But... | ||
| It goes back to, you can't kid yourself. | ||
| You can kid everybody else around you, and you can say, I'm okay, and you can convince people that you're great or whatever you want, but you know the truth. | ||
| And you have to live with it. | ||
| So how did you make the transition? | ||
| You're obviously a very content, very happy person now. | ||
| How long did it take while this rockstar rollercoaster ride was going on before you really felt comfortable with it all? | ||
| Well, I was married before. | ||
| And perhaps what marriage, like a bad marriage, can teach you, like anything else in life, it can teach you what you don't want, you know. | ||
| And I needed to go through a marriage that wasn't great and got a great son out of it and just continued on the path. | ||
| It's kind of like getting off the wrong exit, you know? | ||
| I saw some very interesting scenery and then I got back on the freeway. | ||
| It's been an ongoing path and I'd say the last 15-20 years have been like just better and better and better. | ||
| I met my wife that I'm with now. | ||
| I met Erin 13 years ago and without hesitation it's the best 13 years of my life. | ||
| You know, just incredible. | ||
| I didn't even know a relationship like this existed. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, that's amazing. | ||
| That is really the key, isn't it? | ||
| It's like finding someone who you're compatible with. | ||
| Finding someone who, you know, it just fits. | ||
| Yeah, soulmate gets thrown around so much, and it's a term that's so abused. | ||
| I certainly used it in the past. | ||
| But when you get it right, it's pretty amazing stuff. | ||
| I mean, the peace of mind and the contentment that you have being with the right person is incredible. | ||
| I mean, I know beyond any doubt this is where I'll be for the rest of my life. | ||
| I hope hers, too. | ||
| But I know from where I'm at, I've got four amazing kids and an incredible wife, and everything else is... | ||
| Icing on the cake. | ||
| The rollercoaster ride of doing, you know, being in a rock and roll band and being some international superstar has got to make it very difficult to keep a relationship, too, because you're always focused on so many different things. | ||
| You've got the songs putting together, you're dealing with the inner complications of being in the band, you're touring, you're putting on albums, a lot of pressure and stress as well, right? | ||
| Yeah, but when you... | ||
| Certainly when I was younger, nothing warranted. | ||
| I had no qualms about, you know, my relationships were secondary. | ||
| I would tell somebody that, you know, I mean, my band comes first. | ||
| I bet that went over well. | ||
| Well, you know... | ||
| I didn't lose any sleep over it. | ||
| Isn't that the thing that always happens in bands? | ||
| A girl gets in there, whether it's a lead singer or a lead guitarist, has a wife who all of a sudden steps into the picture and she starts telling the other guys they have to shape up or do this. | ||
| What a nightmare. | ||
| What a nightmare. | ||
| That's the Valerie Bertinelli effect, right? | ||
| I can't speak for any other band, but what I've heard from some other bands or seen is that's a nightmare. | ||
| Look, we still don't let anybody into our dressing room. | ||
| That is sacred ground. | ||
| Even wives... | ||
| No, that's, you know, that's where we live. | ||
| You gotta have something that's either sacred or just belongs to the four of you or the five of you. | ||
| So, you know, our dressing room, our kids once in a while might come in, but everybody knows that's not for our families. | ||
| But your kids can come in. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| Tell your wife, just drop the kids off and wait for them in the hallway. | ||
| Not on the door. | ||
| I'm going to show them how to pick a guitar. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| It's a weird ride. | ||
| I mean, no one else has... | ||
| I mean, unless you're talking to other rock stars, no one else has experienced the life that you've had. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| It's very true. | ||
| I mean, when you, politicians want to be rock stars. | ||
| Everybody wants to be a rock star. | ||
| Rock stars don't want to be, rock stars want to be rock stars. | ||
| The reason everybody wants to be it, it's as good as they say. | ||
| Trust me, it's awesome. | ||
| It doesn't have to kill you. | ||
| It doesn't have to scar you. | ||
| It's awesome. | ||
| And you guys have been through the full spectrum of success. | ||
| 40 years. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, you were gigantic with the makeup. | ||
| And then, what made you take the makeup off? | ||
| What was that about? | ||
| Missteps. | ||
| You know, I think that, again, when... | ||
| When we booted Peter out of the band, we felt that Eric Carr, when he came in, needed another persona, so we did that. | ||
| I think between apathy and laziness that set in within the band, we became very fat and rich. | ||
| We forgot why we loved what we did and became more involved with trying to get approval from our peers or friends or girlfriends. | ||
| And then within the band, when we started bringing in new people, this whole idea of creating new characters, I think we lost the plot. | ||
| And taking off the makeup was like taking a bucket of cold water in the face. | ||
| It was a way for us to regroup. | ||
| And as far as I was concerned, it was a time for us to say, if we're not valid as a band, if we're not good enough to be a band, then we should call it quits. | ||
| If we can't exist as a band without the makeup, and quite honestly, people had grown tired of it. | ||
| I think people weren't tired of the music, but they were listening with their eyes and didn't want to see us anymore. | ||
| They didn't want to see perhaps what we had become. | ||
| So I went, we need to take this chance, take this leap of faith, and take the makeup off, and we did. | ||
| And you can't compete with those four iconic images. | ||
| No matter what you do without it, it's always going to pale. | ||
| That being said, we were platinum from Lick It Up on. | ||
| But people talk about it, yeah, you know, that was like the downtime. | ||
| Well... | ||
| In a sense, yeah, because you pale next to kissing makeup. | ||
| But it got us through, let's see, it was probably 13 years probably without makeup. | ||
| And, you know, we honed our skills and also readdressed and recommitted ourselves to what we once were and worked our way back and sold a lot of albums. | ||
| But understandably, people think of them as the lean years. | ||
| Those lean years would make most bands fat. | ||
| Yeah, well, Lick It Up is still one of my all-time favorites. | ||
| But when you guys took the makeup off, what was that transition like? | ||
| To go from being a famous person who has almost a non-famous face to being a famous person that now everybody's like, oh! | ||
| I loved it. | ||
| I loved it. | ||
| I craved it. | ||
| It was awesome. | ||
| It was awesome to finally go, yes, it's me, it's me. | ||
| I loved it. | ||
| And it didn't change who I was on stage at all because I've never really been playing a part. | ||
| That's who I am. | ||
| So with or without makeup, I'm not looking in a mirror when I'm on stage. | ||
| I'm just being me. | ||
| So it didn't change. | ||
| It changed it for some of the other guys. | ||
| It gave us Lick It Up, Heaven's on Fire, a lot of really cool stuff. | ||
| Creatures of the Night, War Machine, I Love It Loud, a lot of... | ||
| Well, no. | ||
| Creatures of the Night, you had makeup on? | ||
| Yeah, that was the last... | ||
| That was 82? | ||
| Yeah, that was the last gasp. | ||
| I wanted that album without makeup, and we kind of... | ||
| Understandably, Gene was much more reluctant than I was, so Lick It Up was when we took it off. | ||
| And we were more in touch with ourselves. | ||
| So after 13 years, I remember thinking, if we're going to get back together with the other guys who I swore I would never do again, now's the time because I don't know if these guys are going to live that much longer. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Well, I just don't know. | ||
| I don't know what they've been doing or... | ||
| You know, where they've been. | ||
| So it was 13 years with no Ace, no Peter. | ||
| I think it was actually longer. | ||
| Peter was 1979 and Ace was 82. Wow. | ||
| So, you know, we reached out to them and went through a whole lot of song and dance and a whole lot of dating, so to speak. | ||
| And, you know, ultimately did Kiss Unplugged and brought them out. | ||
| And then after that, we did a full-scale reunion, which was enormous. | ||
| And... | ||
| With two guys who were so grateful to be back. | ||
| You know, Peter was just a joy. | ||
| I'll never do that again. | ||
| You know, what I did, I'm so glad I'm back and I get a second chance. | ||
| And they were both terrific for about a week. | ||
|
unidentified
|
A week? | |
| No, longer than that. | ||
| It seemed like a week. | ||
| It was by midway through the reunion tour, those cracks just started showing again. | ||
| And the same stuff started happening. | ||
| You know, it was impossible. | ||
| We did two more tours after that. | ||
| I think we did Psycho Circus, and those guys were barely on the albums. | ||
| And then we did the Farewell Tour. | ||
| And the Farewell Tour... | ||
| Honestly, I think we were so miserable, Gene and I were so miserable, we were kind of thrown in the towel. | ||
| And then by the end of the tour, I remember a guy, and I figured, we're done. | ||
| It's over. | ||
| There was a car wash, and one of the guys says to me, boy, I loved the farewell tour. | ||
| When are you doing the 35th anniversary tour? | ||
| And I went, you don't want us to be gone? | ||
| And I realized that really what the farewell tour was, was saying farewell to those guys again. | ||
| And I would never give up the makeup again, and I would never give up the band. | ||
| The stance of the band has always been that the band is bigger than the individuals. | ||
| And to suddenly have people who were sabotaging and compromising the band and the fans suddenly in charge to say the band was over was just not going to happen. | ||
| So it was a wake-up call for me. | ||
| So since then it's been, you know, just really just pretty amazing. | ||
| What's the difference between going back and putting the makeup on once people already know what your face looks like and, you know, not? | ||
| It's a different time in my life, a different person, and really terrific to be able to experience that kind of phenomenal success at a different point in my life where I appreciate it in a different way. | ||
| Most people don't get to do that, you know, to regain the championship and smell the roses or whatever when you're a little bit more equipped to appreciate it in a different way. | ||
| To real Kiss fans when you guys made that reunion tour and you got back together with Peter Criss and Ace Frehley. | ||
| Kevin James, you know Kevin James from King of Queens? | ||
| He's a good buddy of mine. | ||
| Huge fan. | ||
| Huge Kiss fan. | ||
| He and I went together. | ||
| We went two nights in a row. | ||
| We saw you guys in LA. And we were just going crazy because it was the whole band. | ||
| Everybody was together. | ||
| So it was so storybook initially. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Did you try to get those guys straight? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Did you give them some Ibogaine, take them to the jungle? | ||
| You know, look, it's like... | ||
| I will try to save anybody who's drowning until they start pulling me under. | ||
| And then I gotta cut them loose. | ||
| You know, it was hopeless. | ||
| Is it booze? | ||
| Is it drugs? | ||
| Is it a combination? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is it personalities? | |
| I think it's just personalities and everything else exacerbates things. | ||
| But it starts with you and who you are. | ||
| The rest of it just takes it south. | ||
| So... | ||
| I just found myself in a position where there was no choice except to change things. | ||
| But look, all I can tell you is the band has never been better, never sounded better, never been more the band that I wanted to be because there are four people now who Truly love and respect the band and want to do what's best for the band and not what's best for them as individuals. | ||
| Everybody in the band will swallow their ego and their pride, me included, to do what's best for the band. | ||
| And that's a great, you know, we built something great on, once again, it goes back to foundation. | ||
| You can't build anything without a great foundation, whether it's your personality and your life or a band. | ||
| So we've got a great foundation, but what we've built on it is pretty terrific, pretty tremendous. | ||
| It's probably much more difficult to take something for granted when you came into the band as a fan of the band. | ||
| One guy 20 years, one guy 10 years. | ||
| You're talking about a 40-year-plus career. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, and honestly, they are tremendous contributors and great to be around, and we all socialize, which is something terrific. | ||
| The combustibility of that original band was perhaps what made it in the beginning, but made it inevitable that it would... | ||
| Combust you know it was it was so volatile. | ||
| I really hoped when we did the reunion that we could move forward and take the band and see it to the you know happily ever after but you know the Wizard of Oz it's just it's not it's not it's not that it's just not that way. | ||
| Well, even, you know, as you describe your own life, the change of your perception of the world was a slow, gradual thing with a conscious effort. | ||
| Without that conscious effort, change is virtually impossible. | ||
| And these guys just getting this second chance probably gave them a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of, you know, I'll never do it again, because they recognize, like, wow, holy shit, I'm in Kiss again. | ||
| Here we are. | ||
| We're doing it again. | ||
| We're back! | ||
| But ultimately... | ||
| If you're more concerned and driven or ruined by what someone else has rather than what you have, if you're more concerned with me making more money than you, which is just a given because I never left the band once or twice. | ||
| So that became a big issue once you guys... | ||
| Well, it surfaced, and it was only one of, you know, a lot of issues that once again came to the surface, but that was one that was not negotiable. | ||
| And did you think that it could have possibly even helped? | ||
| I mean, if you said, okay, listen, guys, we're back, we're the band, let's go 25% all around. | ||
| We... | ||
| That's a movie we already saw and it didn't work. | ||
| We did that the first time around and it didn't work. | ||
| And here we are 13 or 15 years later bringing two guys back in who are virtually broke and have no career into a band that has maintained platinum status. | ||
| And you don't come in as a partner or an equal. | ||
| You come in as someone who is Paid and salaried. | ||
| Now mind you, once again, when rejoining the band is making you a millionaire again, I wouldn't bring out any hankies to wipe my tears away. | ||
| They did very, very well. | ||
| They just didn't do as well as you and Gene. | ||
| And nor should they. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I see your point. | ||
| I see your point. | ||
| I could see how they could get bitter about it. | ||
| But once again, there was more to it than that. | ||
| And again, drugs and sycophantic relationships and overinflated ideas of who they were and what they could do, it just didn't work. | ||
| Well, it seems like with every band, there's always this ultimate conflict. | ||
| And one of the things that you guys have managed to do is whatever conflicts that you've had with Gene, you guys have managed to stay together. | ||
| Gene and I are so unlike each other. | ||
| I mean, completely unlike, you know, somebody was just saying that this morning. | ||
| But we're together for 45 years, I think, now. | ||
| That's insane. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's from when I was two. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's incredible. | ||
| Yeah, and we're together because we have a common bond, and we have something that we believe in, and we have a work ethic, and we put other stuff aside. | ||
| I mean, there's been times certainly where we weren't getting along very well at all or not speaking, but we're in the band together. | ||
| So you were not speaking, but yet you were playing together. | ||
| There have been some times of some real resentment and real anger, but so what? | ||
| I mean, we're still here, and we do what's best for the band and always have. | ||
| That's amazing. | ||
| And we've never gotten along better. | ||
| That's incredible. | ||
| How did you guys do that when you're performing on stage if you weren't speaking to each other? | ||
| Well, I mean, more or less not speaking to each other. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Disliking each other intensely. | ||
| But you get up and that's where we make magic, you know? | ||
| I said to another band, a really, really big band. | ||
| Nickelback? | ||
| No, a really, really big band. | ||
| And, you know, they were complaining about the relationships within the band. | ||
| And I said, you know, you don't have to love everybody in the office. | ||
| And I said, in your case, if you can make magic on stage, anything else is a bonus. | ||
| So the fact that you get up there and are a great band should suffice. | ||
| You want more, go get a family. | ||
| The key to a great partnership is knowing its limitations. | ||
| You should give seminars on how to keep a band together. | ||
| I should give seminars, period. | ||
| Yeah, why don't you give seminars? | ||
| I've been asked. | ||
| You should, really. | ||
| You're an inspirational guy. | ||
| I mean, it's not just that you're an iconic rock figure, but you're very down-to-earth and very centered. | ||
| Do you meditate at all? | ||
| Do you do anything? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Just the therapy and being Paul Staley? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's good to be Paul Stanley. | ||
| It's great to work, work, work, and find yourself at a great juncture in your life. | ||
| Enjoying your work. | ||
| Enjoying your work and enjoying your life. | ||
| And being loved. | ||
| And not using your work as an escape from your life. | ||
| And a lot of performers, I won't say most, but a lot of performers use their work as an escape to get away from a life that they don't like. | ||
| And is this something that you've figured out over the years through therapy and through thinking and through analyzing and being objective? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, I can't put everything on therapy, but innately it comes down to, once again, do you like who you see in the mirror? | ||
| And if you don't, how do you make yourself like that person? | ||
| And therapy and even pursuing it was sort of obviously because of that, because of this thinking. | ||
| Yeah, just going, well, this isn't working. | ||
| Maybe somebody else can enlighten me or direct me another way. | ||
| Did we figure out how much Radiohead made? | ||
| It was arguable. | ||
| They sold around 3 million copies of that album. | ||
| Right. | ||
| They also said that three times that went on BitTorrent. | ||
| So they did make money. | ||
| Whether or not they would have made ten times that, who knows. | ||
| Why would it be on BitTorrent if you could pay whatever you want? | ||
| You could pay whatever you want. | ||
| But you had to pay something? | ||
| They also sold special copies of it. | ||
| They sold an album version. | ||
| They sold a special box version. | ||
| They sold 100,000 copies of that. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And what did it work out to per album? | ||
| The information I was finding didn't say per album. | ||
| So they kept their mouth shut about it. | ||
| Yeah, it was a disaster. | ||
| As soon as it went on BitTorrent, it freestocked. | ||
| It freestocked as soon as BitTorrent went on. | ||
| They were like, oh, no more free. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| When it went on BitTorrent, they got mad? | ||
| Wait, just kidding, just kidding. | ||
| Dirtbags of the world. | ||
| You guys are going to do a residency in Vegas? | ||
| We are. | ||
| We are. | ||
| At the end of this month... | ||
| I'm there, dude. | ||
| That's awesome. | ||
| I'm going to be watching that. | ||
| Great. | ||
| Where are you going to be? | ||
| What hotel? | ||
| We're at the Hard Rock in the joint. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, wow. | |
| Mainly we're doing Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays, although it switches a bit. | ||
| And we're actually... | ||
| I think we're 40% above any other band that's done the residency there with ticket sales already. | ||
| The joint's a good venue, too. | ||
| Not too big. | ||
| It's intimate in a bit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's great. | |
| And what's really interesting is when you play a small place, you tend to downsize. | ||
| We actually are cramming more stuff in, because we don't have to travel with it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Oh, yeah, right. | ||
| We're really gearing up for something great. | ||
| And at the end of this month, we do the Kiss Cruise, which goes out every year and has about 3,500 fans from 33 countries around the world get on the ship and spend four days traveling. | ||
| Rockin' and Rollin', bring other bands out. | ||
| Wow! | ||
| So you hang out with these freaks for four days? | ||
| We don't hang out. | ||
| We do two shows in a theater, and then we go to an island, and we do an acoustic set there, and then we have other bands with us. | ||
| The night before we leave, Port Cheap Trick plays, and it's great. | ||
| So we do that, and then we do the Vegas residency. | ||
| Wow, so you do this tour on this boat, and you're trapped on the boat with all these people. | ||
| That doesn't freak you out at all? | ||
| Well, no, because we have a section to ourselves where nobody can come. | ||
| So that's where you got the dudes with the earpieces. | ||
| They're not in the supermarket, but they're on the boat. | ||
| And the AK-7s. | ||
| Yeah, I would think that that would be the one thing that was like, I know Opie and Anthony were gonna do a boat tour, and I was like, man, good luck with all that. | ||
| I have to say, the first year I dreaded, you know, I dreaded the idea of it, and four years into it, I mean, my family comes, it's awesome. | ||
| Well, it's gotta be amazing to have 3,500 fans on a boat with you. | ||
| Well, the beautiful thing about it is that They're from all walks of life. | ||
| I mean, a guy last year was in full gear, all my full gear, and gave me a book. | ||
| He was a doctor, and he wrote a book on forensic science. | ||
| Full gear meaning he's dressed like you? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| That's got to be weird. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So you have, you know, you have gays and straights and, you know, every permutation of life. | ||
| And it's awesome. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| It's awesome. | ||
| That's got to be strange, seeing people dressed as your character. | ||
| Well, it's great when you realize that you've got people from 30 plus countries and what holds them all together, what they share in common is kiss. | ||
| I think it's so cool because I always go, you know, rock bands make music, phenomenons impact society. | ||
| And that's the difference. | ||
| And that's what KISS is. | ||
| KISS is a phenomenon. | ||
| Yeah, you've bypassed the rock star status. | ||
| Now you're a phenomenon. | ||
| But you can still see me buying groceries. | ||
| Now, the Hard Rock, when it does start? | ||
| It starts November 5th, I believe. | ||
| How long is it going to run till? | ||
| It's that month. | ||
| And I know, well, I'm sure we'll be back. | ||
| What happens in Vegas is worth seeing in Vegas twice. | ||
| Yeah, so how many nights a week are you guys doing that? | ||
| Three. | ||
| Three nights a week? | ||
| Wednesdays. | ||
| Initially it's Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays. | ||
| So you just take Thursday off and then... | ||
| Yeah, I fly home. | ||
| Oh, you fly home. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Gotta take the kids to school. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Could you imagine living there and doing that? | ||
| I know people who live outside of Vegas and they like it. | ||
| Penn Jillette seems to love it, but I always look at him sideways when he tells me that. | ||
| Like, hmm. | ||
| Did you see Tim's Vermeer movie he did? | ||
| No. | ||
| What is that? | ||
| It's a guy he knows, an inventor, made a lot of money, had this interest in the painter Vermeer. | ||
| And nobody can quite figure out how Vermeer painted because he seemed to... | ||
| He didn't sketch underneath and his handling of light is very, very unique. | ||
| Anyway, so... | ||
| Penn& Tell did this movie with their friend documenting his quest to understand how Vermeer painted. | ||
| It's fabulous. | ||
| It won an Academy Award, I think, last year or the year before. | ||
| I've never heard of this guy before. | ||
| What's so unique about his painting? | ||
| Vermeer was a Dutch painter who just seemed to understand light in a way that was photographic as opposed to what you'd see in normal paintings. | ||
| And there's no outlines around anything. | ||
| It's almost like he just painted without ever – somehow he looked at something and painted it. | ||
| And it's a very interesting film. | ||
| It's a documentary, but fascinating, and they're the ones behind the film. | ||
| Well, Penn's a very unique thinker, and he's also a guy, no drugs, no alcohol, no nothing, yet he lives in Vegas, works in show business, was a carny at one point in time, you know, is a professional magician, you know, all those things you would think a guy who's Crazy, off-the-rails, self-destructive. | ||
| Nope, none of the above. | ||
| Very, very intelligent guy. | ||
| Very introspective. | ||
| Always in deep thought. | ||
| Has a great podcast. | ||
| Really had a great radio show before that. | ||
| He's just a very unique dude. | ||
| You know, fame gives you the opportunity to have an amazing life or to kill yourself. | ||
| Take your choice. | ||
| You kill yourself with or without it, right? | ||
| Yeah, take your choice. | ||
| Well, we're all going to die. | ||
| It's just a matter of when. | ||
| So, how do people get tickets to the Vegas thing to get through the hard rock? | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| I'm just a guitar player. | ||
| I just sing Love Gun and Detroit Rock City and Strutter and Come On and Love Me and Firehouse and Hotter Than Hell. | ||
| Shout it out loud. | ||
| That's just what I do. | ||
| That is what you do. | ||
| And it's been a real privilege, man. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| It's been an honor to have you on here. | ||
| I really, really appreciate it. | ||
| I've been a fan for so long, so I was like a kid in a candy store today. | ||
| Awesome. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Paul Stanley, ladies and gentlemen. | ||
| That's it. |
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