Paul Stanley, KISS’s Starchild, reveals how therapy reshaped his perspective after childhood trauma and fame’s pitfalls, including a failed marriage and early career missteps, calling it "life school" rather than a quick fix. The band’s 1996 makeup removal—a "bucket of cold water"—sparked creative renewal, though tensions with original members like Peter Criss and Ace Frehley resurfaced during brief reunions. Now, KISS thrives with a unified Vegas residency (starting November 5th) and sold-out Kiss Cruise events, proving longevity comes from shared legacy over ego. His honesty about struggles, like Radiohead’s In Rainbows piracy disaster, underscores authenticity in rock’s evolving landscape. [Automatically generated summary]
First of all, I just want to say thank you very much for being here.
When I was a little kid, I've been a fan of KISS since...
I can't remember when I wasn't.
Like, I was a tiny little kid when I first found out about KISS. So to have you here in my podcast, I've been to many of your shows, both pre-when you wore makeup, then when you got off of makeup, and then when you got back on makeup again.
I think where we went astray is when we first replaced Peter and we decided we needed a new character.
And the problem with that kind of stuff is that it started to become, interestingly, I think, disingenuous.
It took on an air of fake in the sense that it became a menagerie.
I mean, we had a fox and an Egyptian warrior.
Next we would have Turtle Boy and the Frogman.
So I think once we brought Ace and Peter back for the reunion tour, Which I hoped would go on forever.
In other words, I hoped that everybody would get back together, everybody would see the error in their ways, and we would move forward and stay together forever.
But when that wasn't to be, I thought, you know, we really built these four images.
Arguably, you can go anywhere in the world and people know who KISS is, regardless of whether they know who those people are.
To give up that because we found that those guys were no longer either capable or wanted to give it 100%, well, who loses out?
The fans.
Those images are the images that will continue when I'm not here either.
Yeah, that's gotta be a strange place to be where you and Gene are both these super-focused, healthy, non-drug-using guys, and then you have these two guys in your band that are integral parts of the band.
It was, and look, this whole show could turn into denigrating the former members, but I don't want to do that, but honestly...
That song was the product of a great producer who had a big hand in writing it and a co-writer who Peter used on a lot of things that he supposedly wrote.
But they were integral members of the band, and it's very difficult to move forward when two of the people are like...
At times, like flat tires, you're trying to move forward.
It becomes more of a problem when their reason for being is to foil and to throw off track what you're trying to do.
So, at some point, it really became more about trying to disrupt what we were trying to do With no regard to whether or not what they want to do was right or wrong.
Yeah, determination and seeing the whole picture and wanting this to be as good as it could be as opposed to falling back on, oh, you know, it's rock and roll.
Well, rock and roll is no excuse for mediocrity.
And rock and roll is no excuse for not doing your job.
You know, if somebody says, oh, my playing is rock and roll.
No, that's just bad.
You know, there's bad and then there's rock and roll.
So, look, it's a long time ago.
And it's kind of like talking about a girlfriend or a wife you had a long time ago.
Yeah, it's always hard to deal with people that are in that sort of self-sabotaging mode.
And you see it all the time.
One of the things that I always equate to is when you see people smoking cigarettes and they throw their cigarette on the ground and don't think anything of it.
And it's a super common thing.
It's very rare that you see people just throw trash on the ground in front of everybody.
But people will throw cigarettes on the ground in front of anybody.
Because they're sabotaging their own body, they don't mind just throwing stuff on the ground, too.
And perhaps if it's okay for me to smoke, it's okay for me to discard my cigarette.
You're going to breathe the smoke secondhand, so here's a but.
I really don't know.
I don't know the, the mentality that wants to sabotage what ultimately benefits you.
Um, look, if you're in a band that's doing great and you're not the primary songwriter or the primary singer, well, you should revel in what you have.
yeah.
Um, you know, the idea of equality, some have to be more equal than others, Everybody can be in the car together.
Somebody's got to drive.
We're all going the same direction.
But when people reach a point of saying, well, I want an equal amount of songs, well, do we leave off Strutter so we can put your song on, or do we leave off Detroit Rock City?
It doesn't work like that.
There's no...
I don't believe that there's any birthright or that we should expect a quota in anything.
Is that the most difficult thing about being in a band, is just managing all the egos and managing, you know, everybody has their own point of view where they're not getting appreciated or looked at with the proper respect?
That's often the situation in bands, and thankfully that's not the situation in our band.
Eric's been in and out of the band for 20 years, I think, at this point.
And Tommy's been around the band and been in the band, I think, over 10 at this point.
The key to a great band or any great situation is doing what's best for the situation, not what's best for you.
I don't have to be right.
I just want to see the right thing happen.
So if you're more tied up in the ego gratification or in the control factor, I honestly don't need to control anything.
But I do have a point of view, and I guess I've earned my place at this juncture.
Everybody gets a chance to stake their views, and hopefully they're always with the best intentions.
And I think that's the way the band works now.
We have a drummer who doesn't like to take a solo, and this guy could play a better solo with one hand than most drummers could play with every limb of their body.
So, everybody really, it's all for one and one for all.
You guys were one of the first bands that got really big doing live shows.
Like, your live shows were so spectacular that when you put a live album out, when you put out Kiss Alive and then Kiss Alive 2, Those albums were so big, like, I mean, and it's, obviously we're dating ourselves here, but just the albums, when you'd open up Kiss Alive 2, that big, silver, dynamic record, I mean, it was awesome!
And the performances were so intense, you know, it was so much fun to listen to that it really boosted you guys up.
And when I was a kid, it would really drive me fucking crazy that I didn't hear your songs enough on the radio.
And when I did hear one of your songs, I got super excited.
I got pumped.
But it was always like Detroit Rock City or Beth.
It was never like Cold Gin or one of the more obscure titles.
Cold Gin, not a very obscure song, but it was...
You guys became big almost in spite of the business.
And I think to this day, we still retain a certain amount of being the black sheep.
We're still...
Look, it took 14 years for us to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Not that necessarily I lost any sleep over it, but...
Validation from critics and people like that has been something that's been a long time coming, but it's never been an issue because our success was based upon people, real fans, the people who buy tickets, buy albums, and stand by you.
So, certainly credibility and the stuff that the media would like to dictate is nothing that we've ever been a part of.
Was it something that you came to get over, but did it bother you at all that you guys weren't getting the record play, or the radio play, rather, that you should have deserved?
Yeah, I was shocked in the beginning that some of the critics who made us their darlings when we were a nobody band in New York City, once we became successful, even in the earliest days, we sold out.
Well, what do you mean we sold out?
You know, you think I wanted to just be your band, you know, this one guy with his typewriter?
So, you know, we did this to succeed and to be slighted for success.
I never got it.
Bands like television or a lot of the bands that came out of New York that went nowhere, went nowhere because they sucked.
The critics may have liked them, but they were irrelevant today.
And in the scheme of things, even back then, they were irrelevant.
When rock and roll first started, With the exception of certain artists, it really was a factory for record companies to create talent.
When you got tired of Fabian, they gave you Frankie Avalon.
When you got tired of Frankie Avalon, they gave you Jimmy Clanton.
They had all these teen idols and they just spoon-fed you and spoon-fed them songs.
Once you got tired of them, there was somebody else who came along.
Once bands started writing their own material, they got the chance to reflect their point of view, and as long as it reflected the fans' point of view, they could get older.
Rock and roll now has become much more like the blues, because you're constantly writing about your life, and as long as people can relate to it, you know, the day I start writing about...
You know, the butler didn't show up today or something like that.
Yeah, I guess they forced him to not do stand-up while he was doing Home Improvement because he had sort of a risque act and that was like a very family-friendly show.
And then when he stopped doing it, he came back.
And when he came back, you know, he's...
His perspective is just so skewed.
He's this multi-millionaire, hugely famous guy, and what is he going to write about?
He writes about his fucking Ferrari breaking down.
Yeah, but it starts with your family and it starts with your parents.
And if your parents aren't there to give you a foundation and to be there to tell you when you're going off the rails, then you're in a lot of trouble.
So I really, when I see a kid in trouble, I look at the parents.
When you see a young guy like that, like a young 20-year-old guy who's just ridiculously famous, and you think about your life and your career, you guys did it in a very unusual way.
And one of the things that was very unusual is that you wore makeup.
And that was such a slick move.
Because you guys were famous as shit, and no one knew what you looked like.
Now, did you ever, during this time where you're sort of craving recognition, when you guys were massively successful on the cover of all these magazines, did you ever want to just put the Starchild outfit on and just walk around with no makeup on and go, hey, look at this magazine.
Yeah, and we really have created these iconic figures and these personalities that exist with us and without us and will continue to exist, whether it's comic books or merchandise.
Movies at some point.
All kinds of things.
It's really interesting.
We created alter egos that are ultimately much bigger than we are and much more timeless than we are.
It's probably the difference between what it was like to be president 50, 60, 70 years ago and today.
And the kind of scandals that Clinton or some of the other politicians have had, all that stuff was still going on back, you know, in the time of FDR or Kennedy.
But it was just – it wasn't public knowledge.
It wasn't – You didn't see somebody, somebody didn't walk out of a hotel bedroom with somebody else and have their picture taken, and all of a sudden it was all over the media.
So things have changed.
If you don't want people to know something, don't do it.
Well, I don't even know if you could say bad or good, but it seems like there's a lot of people that embrace it and exploit it.
Like, do you remember for a long time, it was like for a year or so, women were getting accidentally photographed with no panties on getting out of cars.
And it was pretty obvious by just the angle of the photograph.
Like, how the fuck do you not know there's a camera down there?
The music industry as it exists today is not even an industry.
It's just shambles.
And now artists are in a position to have to take what the public, so to speak, is willing to give them.
In other words, with this onset of file sharing.
Well, file sharing is just a fancy way of saying stealing.
You can't share what you don't own.
The idea that somebody is taking songs or music off the internet and taking it for free and calling it file sharing is like me saying transportation borrowing and I steal your car.
Hope of being not only accepted, but also being rewarded so that they can pay their rent and send their kids to school and things like that.
And that doesn't happen.
That's what stealing does.
But the person who steals on the internet somehow doesn't feel the same as going into a store and stealing a cassette, which don't even exist anymore.
But if you go into a store, if you go into Barnes& Noble or someplace and steal a book, that's blatantly and very clearly illegal.
Downloading something somehow skirts the ethical and moral question of taking something that doesn't belong to you and not paying the person for it.
Look, for me, it's a question more about morality in my case.
It's not going to change my life any.
But it sure bothers me that somebody is taking what they don't own, and it bothers me that somebody who's trying to succeed now and starting off doesn't have a chance in hell, more than likely, of success.
I completely see your point, and I agree with you in a lot of ways, but I think that the reality of the times we're living in, like the digital world that we're living in, property is just, it's a very, it's a weird term when you talk about like digital property, like digital properties, things being downloaded.
I agree with you, but I think the way people were looking at it that didn't have a vested interest in it, the way they were looking at it is, it's very obvious that the reality of the world that we're living in is changing radically, as far as access to information and songs.
Have become information.
Once they became digitized, they became ones and zeros.
I'm not diminishing it in any way, shape, or form, but that art becomes information when it becomes ones and zeros.
And once ones and zeros go online, they go online.
I mean, it's almost impossible to stem the tide.
And when you see a guy like Lars Ulrich stepping out there in the early days, When people maybe thought that there was a way to put a stop to this, when people didn't...
Napster was like the first thing.
People didn't really understand BitTorrent.
They didn't understand a lot of the other possibilities when it comes to downloading and sharing media.
But now, it seems inevitable.
Is there a way to sort of meet in the middle?
Like, I've always had this attitude where if someone sends me something or, you know, someone sends me a YouTube link to a song, if I like it, I immediately buy the album.
Immediately.
I go to iTunes, I buy it right then and there.
Even if I'm not planning on listening to it right now, I do it out of respect for the artist.
Well, you were saying, is it possible to meet in the middle?
And I would say, why do I have to meet you in the middle?
Why do I have to compromise because of circumstance?
You should respect my integrity and you should respect my art instead of me going, all right, well, you got me, so I'll take 50 cents on the dollar instead of you giving me the dollar?
I see what you're saying, but if someone sends you a link and says, hey, Paul, there's this fantastic band, you've got to listen to this, and it's a YouTube link, do you just not click it?
either first hand or second hand and there's an artist involved the artist should be compensated unquestionably but do you feel like there's a difference between someone who's selling like pirate copies like I used to always feel real uncomfortable with that when I'd be in New York And they would sell these pirate copies of VHS tapes.
Remember those?
Or even CDs.
When they first figured out CD burners, people would sell pirate copies of CDs.
But do you see a possible point of view, and I'm playing devil's advocate here, you see a possible point of view for a young, poor kid who doesn't have any money, who's a huge Kiss fan, who just, you know, wants to be able to listen to your music and just can't afford it, can't afford to buy it, and so he downloads a copy.
I mean, that's one of the points of view that people have today, is If I wasn't going to buy a particular album, we're going back to records or cassettes, and you gave it to me, you already paid for it.
So, if you pay for something and then give it to me, okay, maybe there's a point there, but the idea that you took something for free and gave it to me, no.
I think it's ethically and morally wrong, but my concern more is for somebody who's up and coming, or somebody who says, you know, I'm just doing this for the art of it.
Well, that's okay.
You don't need money.
Money may not matter to you until you need money.
You know, I've known people who said, you know, I'm just doing this because I love doing it and money's not important.
Well, that's because your bills are still paid.
When the bills stop being paid, money's going to be real important.
Yeah, people always say money doesn't buy you happiness.
You're absolutely totally correct, but being broke as fuck will make you sad That's true, too.
If you can't afford food and you have no place to live that makes you sad if you are Broke as fuck and then money comes along you will be happier because you will have food and you will have a place to sleep Well, you you certainly won't you certainly won't Saddle your unhappiness on the fact that you don't have food and
The great thing about having money and success, I found, is that you stop putting the onus on things that have no relevance ultimately to your happiness or your state of mind.
In other words, the idea, I'm not unhappy because the I don't have money to pay the bills.
I can pay the bills now, and I'm still unhappy.
What's going wrong?
So I think the great thing about becoming successful, hopefully, and sometimes it's people's downfall, and that's why people wind up with a shotgun in their mouth or a needle in their arm, is because they think that success is going to buy them happiness, and they wind up miserable.
And then you have to, you know, you have your come to Jesus moment when you decide, okay, what now?
You either spend a whole lot of money on psychiatry or therapy, or you start numbing yourself.
Look, it takes a person with a plethora, a vast amount of insecurity to be comfortable in front of a crowd.
The fact that you want to get up in front of a crowd and get approval from a mass of people only says I mean, it speaks volumes about your lack of self-confidence.
So just the fact that you want to be an entertainer, a comedian, whatever it is, and be in the limelight, means that you're seeking approval that you innately don't have.
The fact that there's all these people who drop like flies from all kinds of addictions is just proof that people can be famous and miserable and it doesn't really satiate what's wrong inside you.
Fame gives you an amazing opportunity to go out there and seek help.
And, you know, when I was in my teens, I walked into Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, went into the psychiatry division and went, I need some help.
You know, being born with any kind of difference, any kind of facial difference, deformity or whatever, makes you incredibly not only vulnerable, but you're exposed to a point of...
Never being able to hide.
If you put on some ridiculous shirt with a monkey holding dumbbells or something...
If you put on a shirt that everybody starts laughing at, you go home and change.
But if you have a facial difference or you have something that sets you apart, you can never go home and change.
So the scrutiny that you're under is unbearable.
So that's something I went through from the time I was...
Preschool.
And you start to build up defenses.
And at some point, you don't even know who you once were.
So that's what it was all born out of.
And I'm not the person who lives with a toothache.
I'm the person who goes and gets the root canal.
I don't want to suffer.
I want to dig and go through what's ever ugly and work it out.
That's really what my whole life's been about.
I couldn't have written my book if I'm still in the midst of that depression and insecurity and unhappiness and unfulfilled.
I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me.
I've had spectacular women.
I've had more great times than anybody could ever imagine.
They were transitory, but they were spectacular.
But happiness ultimately comes from the most simple things.
Interaction with people, great friends, family, and inner contentment.
When you step off the stage, you leave that crowd.
Look, I did shows at Madison Square Garden, and you may have been at one of them.
Where I would walk off stage after 18,000 people went crazy and I went to a deli by myself and went, nobody would fucking believe I'm here by myself and I just stepped off this stage.
So there's a huge chasm between who you are in the public and who you are off stage.
And the person off stage is the person you have to live with.
Well, I think better than advice, what you've done is, in your book, explaining with extreme honesty how you felt about those situations, how you felt as a young man growing up with this situation with your ear.
You give people insight into someone who, you know, a lot of people who look at you and they go, this guy's never had a hard day in his life.
I think separating yourself from people or not sharing with them how much you are like them does a disservice to both.
You know, look...
I make the analogy, you know, you can live your life like that.
Sure, it protects you, but you get nothing.
You know, you can hit people and push them away, but it's not until you're willing to open up your hand.
Giving becomes its own reward, whether you're giving to people with support or inspiration or you're giving people monetarily.
Charity or a charitable spirit is ultimately the most rewarding, you know, one of the most rewarding things I've ever been able to experience is giving and helping others.
And quite honestly, when it was explained to me, it seemed ridiculous.
But when you stop judging other people and you accept, look, it's very easy to look at some guy panhandling on the street and say, why don't you go get a job?
You have no idea what that person is living or what nightmare he goes through or she goes through every day.
Would giving them some money or giving them some food really change your life any?
Maybe it'll help them.
But what do you have to lose?
It should feel good to do that instead of kicking somebody who's down.
It's a small person who tries to make someone else feel smaller.
George Orwell said that the autobiography is the most outrageous form of fiction.
And that's probably why I never wanted to write one, because to just bolster yourself up or to have bragging rights about something that may not have even happened is pointless.
For me, the epiphany came when I realized that I could write a book that my children would benefit from when they were old enough.
I have a 20-year-old and a 3-year-old.
So, my 20 year olds read it and I think it's important for when you're successful for your children to know what it took for you to become successful and that it perhaps wasn't as easy and that the road wasn't as smooth.
So, my whole reason to write My story started there, but then it started to snowball in the sense that I began to realize that there's a lot of people out there who could use some inspiration and also some insight because we all tend to think of ourselves as singular and nobody's like us.
Boy, I'm fucked up and nobody else, you know, goes through this.
And when somebody else says, hey, I'm afraid of this or I'm afraid of that.
Oh, you are too?
We feel much more secure and bonded when we share what we have in common.
Look, everybody has their path, and I would never trivialize addiction because addiction is well documented.
It's a disease that some of us are predisposed to.
And those people, I say, look, if you are predisposed to that and if it runs in your family, get help before you get into addiction.
Before you get into the alcohol, if you feel that urge, much better to start controlling it before you immerse yourself in it.
You know, look, I'm a rock star.
I'm a musician, whatever you want to call it.
But I'm a person.
I'm a dad.
I'm a husband.
So, I don't...
How I live my life should...
How anybody lives their life should not be dictated by their profession.
So, oh, you know, this is a great book because rock stars don't...
I go, you know, I'm a rock star...
Maybe two hours a night when I'm on tour.
You have to have a real life, a complete life.
Otherwise, you're shortchanging yourself and probably shortchanging other people.
I know a lot of people, particularly in bands or film actors, who don't want to go home.
I get it.
They don't want to go home because they have nothing.
They either don't have family or they don't have something that satisfies them and makes them feel whole.
And I think what we all owe ourselves, I certainly think so, is to go out and find what you need to feel contentment without the approval of the masses.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I think that a lot of rock stars, a lot of actors, they want to portray an image, and that image is very valuable to them.
They want to, what they call, protect their brand.
And by divulging any past insecurities, or by showing any chinks in their armor emotionally, they feel like, you know, somehow or another this will be either used against them, or it'll diminish the publication.
And if you put something out there and people buy it, That's who you are.
However, the problem with it is that other people will see you as what you've put out there, but you know you're not.
That's a real heavy cross to bear.
To accomplish what you set out for and have the public perceive you to be something amazing and still you feel like crap.
I recommend figure out what you need to feel good about yourself because you're going to need that constant fix of people telling you you're great and the moment it stops, you ain't great.
I've never had a problem with depression but I've had a lot of friends who have and so I've always wondered what is the cause, whether it's circumstantial, whether it's the experiences that they have in their life, whether it's genetic, whether it's a combination of both.
For you, when you started to get over this, like when you're 19, how old were you when you went to the Sea of Sinai?
I started therapy when I was probably 16. 16. So you're 16, you go into this doctor's office.
I needed a lifeline, and that's what therapy was for me.
I don't know that it changed my life initially, but it changed...
Look, if you go work out, when you first start working out, you don't see results immediately, but you have the hope, and the hope is what drives you, is the desire in knowing that if I do this...
The end product will be satisfying.
So therapy is no different.
Therapy, like everything else, it's not an immediate gratification or immediate solution, but it gives you the knowledge that you're on a path.
I'm doing something about this.
I'm working towards a goal.
I want to lose that stomach.
I want to do 10 more reps, whatever it is.
So that's what it was for me.
And then I stopped for a while.
And when the band started to make it, I called a psychiatrist and said, I need...
This ride is about to begin, and I'm going up on the roller coaster, and there's no getting off now, and I need something to hold on to.
Well, the pitfalls of success and the vices are all tied up with, once again, insecurities.
So either you're numbing yourself or you're participating in drugs because it's cool or You know, there's all kinds of poisons out there, and when they're available, it's kind of hard to say no.
It's amazing that you had that kind of insight as a young man, experiencing fame, especially with your background, your childhood, being bullied and feeling insecure, and then all of a sudden it's all coming at you and you're like, whoa, I don't think my fucking surfboard can handle this wave.
But that being said, the great thing is I've talked to other kids.
I've talked to kids with facial problems.
I've talked to their parents.
And that's something that's cathartic.
That's something that's great for me because once I started sharing my issues and the struggles that I had, I could see that I was lightening the load for somebody else.
It's very easy for parents to say, oh, you're just like everybody else.
I think most of that comes out of guilt.
I think most of that comes out of, you want to believe that because you feel terrible for your child, but your child doesn't need to hear that.
Your child needs to hear Yeah, life is tougher for you.
I'll sit down with a kid and say, I don't know what you've heard, but life is tougher for you.
But it can have a happy ending.
But it won't be as easy as it is.
The playing field's not level for everybody.
And yeah, yours is going to be a harder path to go.
And I try to sit with parents and say, listen, your kid's not looking for a solution from you when he tells you what's bothering him.
He's looking to be validated.
He just wants to be heard.
And if you minimize what he's saying, how often do you think he's going to talk to you or she's going to talk to you?
So it's a great sense of...
Satisfaction of being able to go out there and give something back.
It's really one of the greatest gifts of my life, is being at a point now where I can give back and feel like I'm doing something other than making people happy with music.
Obviously, this book, Face the Music, seems to have resonated with people because it's not being looked at as another one of those rock and roll autobiographies, which honestly really should be on a roll of tissue paper, so you could use it for something more appropriate.
But, you know, it seems to resonate with people, and the word I hear from people is that they're inspired by it.
And, you know, my journey is not that different than somebody else's, and maybe it makes it easier knowing that somebody who you look up to is on the same path.
So how does a psychiatrist or a psychologist, whichever one it is, how does someone help a guy like you?
Because I would think that you would have to have some sort of perspective.
Like if a person is, if I come to a psychiatrist and say, hey man, I'm an insurance salesman, and I don't know what it is, but I'm miserable, I can't find any happiness in my life, and this is what I'm doing, I'm self-sabotaging, this is what I'm doing wrong.
But when someone comes to a psychiatrist or a psychologist and says, Hey, I'm the lead singer of one of the biggest fucking bands in the world.
Honestly, I think the truth is always the truth and the foundation for an insurance salesman is no different than the foundation for any rock star or what have you.
I think having a strong sense of self and having a good sense of what the world is and isn't.
I think a lot of times Part of what makes us feel so in doubt is our misconceptions of what other people are thinking or what other people are going through.
Again, it goes back to, I'm not normal.
I have all these fears and doubts, and they don't.
So a lot of times I think we need to have our perspective integrated so that we understand that we're not that different than other people and also whatever issues we have, we get to talk about and somebody kind of helps us reflect and points us in the right direction.
Look, I first walked into a therapist thinking they were going to say, okay, here's what you do and you'll be fine.
And there's none of that.
It's mainly, I call it the best conversation in town.
You talk and somebody throws something back at you and asks you a question about something.
So it's really you teaching yourself.
But it's not something you can do on your own.
I mean, you can't read a self-help book and change your life.
So when you were 16 and you first started going to this guy or gal, whoever it was, and you sat down and you start going over your life, how do they sort of mold you into a happier person or give you the tools to mold yourself into a happier person?
So it's almost like, I really believe, in my case and a lot of people's, it's like learning to walk again.
You can't run before you walk.
You can't get on with your life until the basics are in place.
And if the basics were misconstructed when you were a child, an infant, a toddler, whatever, then you can never build a structure.
You've got to go back down and rebuild.
So I think that's what therapy does.
It may deal with what is going on in the present, but ultimately it's got to get to the core because you can't change things unless you change the wiring.
The most simplistic wiring is what's responsible for what comes later.
I don't think it's brave because the people who don't talk about it I haven't come to terms with it and maybe haven't rewired, fixed themselves, come to grips with things in their life.
To me, it's just, it's reality and there's no vulnerability attached to it.
I think when you're still in the midst of it, you don't want to divulge certain things because it's not only inappropriate, but it can come back to be used against you.
Once you start sharing your vulnerabilities and you're still vulnerable, then people can use them.
I'm really talking about the past.
And that's safe and actually in some ways probably cathartic, therapeutic.
But for somebody to...
It would be inappropriate for somebody who's got certain...
Problems, neuroses, whatever you want to call them, for them to divulge them and then have somebody use them against them.
I'm not in that position anymore.
I'm talking about a journey that got me to this place in my life now, which is a great place.
And I always felt that if somebody uses them against you, if you share something with someone that uses it against you, then you know what kind of person that is.
Lee Strasberg's house, who's arguably one of the gurus of method acting.
And all the famous people were there, and we were all in the living room.
And they all seemed so unhappy.
I was thinking, I want to create from joy.
I don't want to create from misery.
And, you know, it's like I wanted to have an umbrella.
I wanted an umbrella because it seemed to be raining in this place.
But I know certainly there are a lot of people in different fields of the art who feel that their creativity is based on their being unhappy or their, you know, discontent.
We've experienced the same thing with stand-up comedians.
A lot of stand-up comedians almost believe that you have to be miserable outside of being on stage in order to create, and that your reward for being miserable is that when you're killing, when you're on stage and everybody's dying laughing, this is what you get to experience that other people don't, so that when you're not doing this, you're a miserable fuck.
You're supposed to be running around frumpy and scrumpled.
People are becoming more aware of the fact that there's no individual singular path to any creative endeavor, whether it's music or whether it's painting.
There's a lot of different ways to do it, and you could be really good at it without being miserable.
Yeah, but that sharpness and peace of mind and contentment that can come from yoga therapy, a happy home life, whatever, is something that can really enhance whatever your creative outlet is.
And it's just always interesting to see people who are afraid to be happy.
They don't always necessarily have to be negative.
And that's why I was curious about your approach, because you were coming from this place of negativity, but you figured out how to channel it into a positive perspective.
Yeah, I've always found issues with people that choose this monastic lifestyle, seeing that that's like the most simple path.
But you're missing out on some of the most beautiful joys of life because you believe that you can't handle relationships or you can't handle being a father or you can't handle the pursuit of art or whatever you're doing.
He's never been one of them Paul Stanley orgies, like on those album covers, one of those gigantic heart-shaped beds, and you've got 50 tens swarming you.
Yeah, I've always been very conscious about not projecting that to other people when it comes to how much...
Children has changed me that you need to do it because I used to resent that when I was single and people talk to me about oh You need to get married and have kids but get the fuck out of here like no man kids change I'm better because of kids.
Yeah, you need to have kids in your life You need to fuck off.
Yeah, you know like I hate proselytizing so when people would do that I'm very conscious.
Go about your life and understand and realize that everybody has their own path and that what worked for you and is working for you may have absolutely no relevance to their life whatsoever.
You know, somebody a couple of days ago was saying to me, you know, again, so-and-so, when I see people that don't have kids, I really think they're missing out.
I go, they may be missing out on nothing because they're not equipped to have kids or they wouldn't get what you're getting out of it or what you're getting out of your relationship or your marriage.
Some people, you know, everybody just needs to find their own contentment, whether it's in an orange robe or underneath an orange robe with a blonde.
I just think it's hard for some folks to balance that perspective, to say, you know, they think of how much they love their children, how much they love their family, and they couldn't imagine being without it.
So they see someone, they say, well, you can't possibly be happy because you're not living my life.
No, but it's so easy to – in relationships, you'll hear somebody say something, and you just take for granted, oh, they can mean something totally different.
It's always important to say to somebody, what do you mean?
And perhaps if I had known how long it would take to see those adjustments come to some sort of fruition, maybe I would have thought twice about it.
But...
It goes back to, you can't kid yourself.
You can kid everybody else around you, and you can say, I'm okay, and you can convince people that you're great or whatever you want, but you know the truth.
The rollercoaster ride of doing, you know, being in a rock and roll band and being some international superstar has got to make it very difficult to keep a relationship, too, because you're always focused on so many different things.
You've got the songs putting together, you're dealing with the inner complications of being in the band, you're touring, you're putting on albums, a lot of pressure and stress as well, right?
Isn't that the thing that always happens in bands?
A girl gets in there, whether it's a lead singer or a lead guitarist, has a wife who all of a sudden steps into the picture and she starts telling the other guys they have to shape up or do this.
When we booted Peter out of the band, we felt that Eric Carr, when he came in, needed another persona, so we did that.
I think between apathy and laziness that set in within the band, we became very fat and rich.
We forgot why we loved what we did and became more involved with trying to get approval from our peers or friends or girlfriends.
And then within the band, when we started bringing in new people, this whole idea of creating new characters, I think we lost the plot.
And taking off the makeup was like taking a bucket of cold water in the face.
It was a way for us to regroup.
And as far as I was concerned, it was a time for us to say, if we're not valid as a band, if we're not good enough to be a band, then we should call it quits.
If we can't exist as a band without the makeup, and quite honestly, people had grown tired of it.
I think people weren't tired of the music, but they were listening with their eyes and didn't want to see us anymore.
They didn't want to see perhaps what we had become.
So I went, we need to take this chance, take this leap of faith, and take the makeup off, and we did.
And you can't compete with those four iconic images.
No matter what you do without it, it's always going to pale.
That being said, we were platinum from Lick It Up on.
But people talk about it, yeah, you know, that was like the downtime.
Well...
In a sense, yeah, because you pale next to kissing makeup.
But it got us through, let's see, it was probably 13 years probably without makeup.
And, you know, we honed our skills and also readdressed and recommitted ourselves to what we once were and worked our way back and sold a lot of albums.
But understandably, people think of them as the lean years.
I wanted that album without makeup, and we kind of...
Understandably, Gene was much more reluctant than I was, so Lick It Up was when we took it off.
And we were more in touch with ourselves.
So after 13 years, I remember thinking, if we're going to get back together with the other guys who I swore I would never do again, now's the time because I don't know if these guys are going to live that much longer.
It was by midway through the reunion tour, those cracks just started showing again.
And the same stuff started happening.
You know, it was impossible.
We did two more tours after that.
I think we did Psycho Circus, and those guys were barely on the albums.
And then we did the Farewell Tour.
And the Farewell Tour...
Honestly, I think we were so miserable, Gene and I were so miserable, we were kind of thrown in the towel.
And then by the end of the tour, I remember a guy, and I figured, we're done.
It's over.
There was a car wash, and one of the guys says to me, boy, I loved the farewell tour.
When are you doing the 35th anniversary tour?
And I went, you don't want us to be gone?
And I realized that really what the farewell tour was, was saying farewell to those guys again.
And I would never give up the makeup again, and I would never give up the band.
The stance of the band has always been that the band is bigger than the individuals.
And to suddenly have people who were sabotaging and compromising the band and the fans suddenly in charge to say the band was over was just not going to happen.
So it was a wake-up call for me.
So since then it's been, you know, just really just pretty amazing.
It's a different time in my life, a different person, and really terrific to be able to experience that kind of phenomenal success at a different point in my life where I appreciate it in a different way.
Most people don't get to do that, you know, to regain the championship and smell the roses or whatever when you're a little bit more equipped to appreciate it in a different way.
I think it's just personalities and everything else exacerbates things.
But it starts with you and who you are.
The rest of it just takes it south.
So...
I just found myself in a position where there was no choice except to change things.
But look, all I can tell you is the band has never been better, never sounded better, never been more the band that I wanted to be because there are four people now who Truly love and respect the band and want to do what's best for the band and not what's best for them as individuals.
Everybody in the band will swallow their ego and their pride, me included, to do what's best for the band.
And that's a great, you know, we built something great on, once again, it goes back to foundation.
You can't build anything without a great foundation, whether it's your personality and your life or a band.
So we've got a great foundation, but what we've built on it is pretty terrific, pretty tremendous.
Yeah, and honestly, they are tremendous contributors and great to be around, and we all socialize, which is something terrific.
The combustibility of that original band was perhaps what made it in the beginning, but made it inevitable that it would...
Combust you know it was it was so volatile.
I really hoped when we did the reunion that we could move forward and take the band and see it to the you know happily ever after but you know the Wizard of Oz it's just it's not it's not it's not that it's just not that way.
Well, even, you know, as you describe your own life, the change of your perception of the world was a slow, gradual thing with a conscious effort.
Without that conscious effort, change is virtually impossible.
And these guys just getting this second chance probably gave them a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of, you know, I'll never do it again, because they recognize, like, wow, holy shit, I'm in Kiss again.
If you're more concerned and driven or ruined by what someone else has rather than what you have, if you're more concerned with me making more money than you, which is just a given because I never left the band once or twice.
We did that the first time around and it didn't work.
And here we are 13 or 15 years later bringing two guys back in who are virtually broke and have no career into a band that has maintained platinum status.
And you don't come in as a partner or an equal.
You come in as someone who is Paid and salaried.
Now mind you, once again, when rejoining the band is making you a millionaire again, I wouldn't bring out any hankies to wipe my tears away.
Yeah, and we're together because we have a common bond, and we have something that we believe in, and we have a work ethic, and we put other stuff aside.
I mean, there's been times certainly where we weren't getting along very well at all or not speaking, but we're in the band together.
And at the end of this month, we do the Kiss Cruise, which goes out every year and has about 3,500 fans from 33 countries around the world get on the ship and spend four days traveling.
Yeah, I would think that that would be the one thing that was like, I know Opie and Anthony were gonna do a boat tour, and I was like, man, good luck with all that.
Well, Penn's a very unique thinker, and he's also a guy, no drugs, no alcohol, no nothing, yet he lives in Vegas, works in show business, was a carny at one point in time, you know, is a professional magician, you know, all those things you would think a guy who's Crazy, off-the-rails, self-destructive.