Kid Cudi (Scott Mescadi) discusses his arrest for cocaine in 2010, how hypnosis helped him quit smoking, and the transformative power of sensory deprivation tanks like Rogan’s Float Lab. He shares his creative process—melodies sparking lyrics, annual song re-evaluations, and avoiding press at Coachella to prioritize emotional connection over perfection. Exploring psychedelics, he describes DMT trips with fleeting visions (like spider-like entities) but no full transcendence, contrasting with Rogan’s repeated, intense experiences. Their conversation underscores how art, discipline, and altered states can reshape identity, creativity, and self-perception. [Automatically generated summary]
I think one of them got like some serious anorexia, though I think the woman got serious.
I might be mixing my stories up from 1970s bands that I barely pay attention to, but you want to talk about some people that got some fucking stories, you know, the people that grew up during the 60s and were like famous during the 70s.
That's a strange little slice of American life right there.
One of those dudes who doesn't smoke weed, doesn't drink, and don't do total straight edge, but you're wearing a captain's hat, you're a fucking idiot.
But there's something, if you're like some Hunter S. Thompson dude with a captain's hat on, you're on mescaline while you've got a bottle of whiskey in one hand and a bottle of vodka in the other, I want to talk to that dude.
I'm mostly like trying to stay creative and hang around family a lot and get family time in with my mom and my daughter and So my life is split between that and creating.
It's just like, you know, but then when you have...
You know, you have a lot of artists that come and, you know, end up having, like, a grassroots following, and they have a fan base that rides with them their entire career.
That's, man, that's a blessing on top of a blessing.
You never know, because today's audience, you know, these kids like you one minute, they hate you the next, like you one minute, they hate you the next, and to have a loyal fan base in that type of climate, it's awesome.
Yeah, that is the thing that it used to be, like if you were a rapper or any kind of entertainer, you were only as good if you were a comedian.
You were only as good as the people got to see you out there.
It was really difficult to build a fan base if you weren't on something.
If you weren't on a television show, or if you weren't a regular guest like The Tonight Show or something like that.
It was really hard for someone to build a fan base.
But today, because of the internet, rappers, singers, musicians, I mean everybody, comedians, all they can kind of keep tabs and just communicate with people directly.
And I feel like I kind of was at the beginning, the early stages of that wave of, you know, just, you know, another way for people to find music online, new artists, you know, music that you probably wouldn't hear on the radio.
Yeah.
Stuff that's quality, quality, you know, music.
And now, you know, things are way more advanced, even since when I started, you know, when I dropped Day and Night.
That was 2007.
I think the only platform at that time that I had at my disposal to upload music was MySpace.
You're putting on these gloves, or these goggles, rather, that cover your eyes, sort of Oculus Rift style, but you see everything.
I would see you clearly.
But in front of you, there's icons and things that I can move around.
I can open things and close them, and you do it all with hand gestures.
So, like, as I'm looking at you, if I had these goggles on, I'd be looking at you and I'd see these floating geometric objects, like boxes, circles, and you can open them up and close them and move them around and they stay places, like Minority Report style.
I went out in the streets a couple times and I really noticed.
I actually tweeted about this.
I tweeted about it because it was so funny to me.
My experience going on public with Google Glass is people just really thought that I was either taking a picture of them or filming them and people were really concerned.
Because there's no recording lie and you can tell that there's a lens there.
And especially once people ask you what it is and you say Google Glass, people have heard about it, they're like, are you filming me?
And I thought it was interesting because this is something that you might see a celebrity freak out because they're getting photographed or filmed trying to live their lives and do something with their families.
Try to have some privacy and then the public really doesn't understand why they might freak out and why that might be intrusive.
But, you know, it's a funny twist for me to walk in a place and all of a sudden someone's like, oh, are you filming me?
Or, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, what are you doing?
And it's just like, no, I'm not filming a random person that's intrusive because I understand that that's intrusive.
Speaking of cameras, Joe, I just got one added to my car.
So it records everything now that my car does, and it does it on GPS. And then when you watch it on your computer, it shows real-time Google Maps and like a 360 view almost of your car.
Okay, did it really blow up in her pussy, or did she blow it up in her pussy and make it the equivalent to the Mexican dude slamming on his brakes on the highway?
Yeah, because it's the only vibrator that you plug into a wall.
So it's like...
It's like the dumbest, like, because it's really for your back, because it's supposed to be high-powered, but, like, girls are getting so numb down there that they're using these Hitachis, these high-powered ones that just, like, shave off the walls of their vagina.
Apparently, if you don't have a foreskin, the head of your dick gets, like, kind of just abused.
It's always bouncing around inside your underwear.
Having a foreskin, the reason why men are upset, not just the fact that it's ritual genital mutilation that doesn't make any sense, but also that it kills the sensitivity in your dick.
He was having that thing, and they were talking about hope and change, and they were talking about, yes we can, and it was dark, and outdoors, and it was nice, and people were lighting candles, and they were saying, you know, and I just thought, this is great.
I mean, everybody's crying, Oprah was crying, and I was even crying.
And then finally, I haven't cried that hard since I found out that there's 23 million unemployed people in this country.
I always see him in Bourbon, because I think he has a studio at Warner Brothers, so he's always walking on the sidewalk out there, and it's weird just driving by going...
Just the way, I mean, I don't want to give away the ending, but the way it all goes down, so much more likely than most of those stupid shoot-'em-up movies.
Yeah, that was a fascinating look at the Old West.
That was almost like he did all those Westerns back in the day, like the good, the bad, and the ugly, and fun movies, but they weren't super realistic.
And I think as he got older, I mean, I'm just speculating, but he wanted to do one more that really got it right, like the way they make movies today as opposed to the way they made movies back in High Plains Drifter days.
Man, I really just truthfully wanted to tell my story and hopefully it inspired others to not feel alone, you know, and understanding they could persevere through anything, you know.
At that time, I like to tell people I don't even know if I believed half of the shit I wrote.
You know, like when I made Pursuit of Happiness, I was hopeful for happiness, but I was in such a dark place that that song for me was more of a nightmare more than, you know, supposed to be a happy, uplifting song.
It's a weird situation when you bring people into this world.
You're responsible for little tiny people.
You gotta teach them shit and raise them.
It's really hard.
I mean, I wouldn't say no one, because I think people are capable of intellectualizing it, but most people have no idea, I should put it that way, how intense the love a person has for their kid is.
Well, this Adrian Pugh thing, this NFL thing, the guy who beat his kid with a stick, you know, the excuses that, I guess, like when he was young, that's how they treated him.
That's how he was raised.
I don't know what the kid did that was so horrible.
Yeah, certainly anything where there's victims involved.
Especially if the victim's a little kid.
By the way, if you get kids used to the idea that the person they love the most, their parents, is a person who's going to beat them and hit them with things, you are introducing violence into that kid's life at a very early age.
And that violence becomes a natural part of the world.
It becomes something to expect.
That's why they say that people who are around their parents beating each other up are more likely to be involved in abusive relationships when they get older.
They say that people who are hit by their parents or people who watch their parents hit each other and were hit by their parents, it's even worse, apparently.
I mean, my mom spanked us, you know, but she had three boys to deal with by herself the majority of the time, you know?
And I mean, it's not like, you know, I don't, you know, look at my mom as a villain and, you know, but she didn't beat us.
I can't say, like, I've been beaten by my mom.
Like, when I did some hoe-ass shit, you know, my mom reprimanded me and I... You know when you're doing some sucker shit as a kid, you know, especially before you do it.
You know that there's a consequence that comes with that, but I've never experienced that, you know, what I'm pretty sure a lot of people are talking about right now, which is like thinking it's okay to beat up on your kids.
Like, my daughter's four and a half.
I haven't had to reprimand her in that way, and I never will.
I'm not sure if it's 100% real or not, but the girl boils water and then films her He's taking this huge thing of boiling water and pouring it over a dude's head, and there's pictures of him.
He's been in the hospital with all these burns all over his body.
So you, you know, getting out of high school and then growing up, like, essentially, like, young teens, your 20s, all that, like, being able to, like, get online at school and then being, like, completely immersed, like, being a part of, like, interactive communities, talking to people...
You're one of the first generations of musicians that's able to do that, that's able to go directly from high school into communicating online with people, releasing stuff online, and then...
You know, becoming a part of this first generation.
There's a bunch now.
There's like a lot of artists that are becoming really well known because of just interacting with people online.
I think it is my job and my calling to also show the world a different type of person in the position that I'm in.
Someone isn't really big into conforming.
Because of my job.
Because of the people around me.
Because of the people I work with.
I always tell people I'm a human being first before anything.
You're born naked.
You go in a really nice suit.
And everything that happens in between is just madness.
And we figure it out along the way.
But, you know, it's really interesting how a lot of people just kind of like, you know, get this blessing, this job, get in this business, and they just, you know, get really caught up.
And I never wanted to be that guy.
And the beauty of Twitter, it's like, at first I was really against it because it just was so much, you know, unfilteredness, and I've learned to appreciate it.
Like, literally, I get a lot of confidence just by looking at my feed and seeing maybe a couple tweets that are like, yo, man, keep doing it.
And I'm not necessarily doing anything right now.
I don't have any music coming out, but it's just a random Tuesday.
And there's some kid in Minnesota that's like, yo, I fucking love you, dude.
Keep going.
We're listening.
And I might have needed to hear that that day.
You know, so like those kids don't know that that means that much to me.
And it does.
So like I wasn't really that big with.
Talking, you know, and having such a presence online because I was weird about it, but now that I got a grip over it, it's no problem for me.
I love that I can, you know, just hit up a kid randomly and just make their whole year, you know, and just give me some confidence or something.
That's using it for good, you know, rather than me posting a picture of some jewelry or some new thousand dollar sneakers I bought that doesn't do anybody any good other than being like, damn, I ain't got shit.
You know, that's the reality that people realize.
And then it's like, well, I need to do what I got to do so I can have what he have.
And I don't want people to think like that, you know?
Like, when I post, I like to post, like, you know, maybe my lactate milk or...
So does this come from, like, lessons that you've learned watching other people, but, like, their behavior, you felt like the shortcomings of their behavior once they became famous?
Let's just say I got into what I would call a trifecta, which was I would wake up in the morning, I would, you know, do coke immediately, even before I had cereal breakfast.
And then I would have a beer, and then I would smoke weed.
So, like, I never wanted people to know I was doing cocaine, so the beer and the marijuana leveled me out in a way where I was able to walk in the streets and talk and seem as though I wasn't on anything.
But deep inside, I'm just like, zing!
With my face, I'm just like, yeah, that's right.
But what it did for me, it completely numbed me.
I didn't care about anything, and I was a robot.
But also, with being so numb, it allowed me to go out and meet my fans and be out in the streets.
So in a twisted way, it did...
It did a positive thing for me, and that's why I didn't see it as an issue.
It was like, damn, today I went walking in Soho with no place to go, and I was just high-fiving fans and shit.
It was just the most amazing experience, something that I never get a chance to feel because I'm just such a recluse.
At that time, it was just weirded out when people recognized me and just didn't want to go anywhere.
Yeah, that's an issue with substances that can help you in some ways, but they're ultimately detrimental to your health or your well-being or your ability to keep it together.
Yeah, it's like, I didn't really let, you know, I didn't let the public make me feel bad about it, though.
It was just kind of like, fuck, I guess I can't do that no more.
And then also, my daughter was born.
So it was like, you know, it was like...
Two kind of life lessons back to back that I experienced in 2010. And, you know, my daughter's birth and being arrested were those two things because I think I had already started toning down my cocaine use at the beginning of that year.
But then I was the king of like something...
Tragic happening or something I felt was tragic or stressful and then spiraling back into it, just needing any excuse to be like, alright, I'm gonna go do cocaine now because I'm upset and I'm dealing with something I don't know how to do.
It's just like my way of copping out and avoiding my issues.
You're very honest about the positive benefits of it.
Like, people have this idea like you shouldn't talk about positive benefits of any drugs, whether it's harmless drugs like marijuana or dangerous drugs like cocaine, maybe even especially dangerous drugs like cocaine, because the reality of what you're saying, your experience and the positive aspects of your experience is like, he's promoting drugs, when clearly you're doing just the opposite.
You're talking about how you needed them and used them and they helped you, but the reality is it was because you were dealing with an issue.
And it just helped mask the issue.
But it did help.
And to lie and deny that, it clouds the issue.
For people dealing with their own drug issues, dealing with their current drug issues or their past drug issues, people aren't honest about it, man.
It puts people in this weird place where they're like, you know what, if it wasn't for fucking meth, I would have never started this business.
Yeah, I mean, for me, like, my father passed away from cancer.
All my uncles passed away from cancer.
And my father died when I was 11, you know?
So that was an experience, you know, for me that kind of, like, traumatized me in such a way.
But I can't, you know, when I got older...
I started to, you know, do everything that my father was into.
Like, my dad smoked Newports, I started smoking Newports at 17. You know, my dad's, you know, he loved MGD, Miller Genuine Draft, I fucking drank MGD, Miller Genuine Draft, you know?
No, I just kind of was becoming my dad in a weird way, and, you know, it wasn't, you know, it was like one of those things, you know, I don't know, I just kind of, I never really had a relationship with him, so the only memories I had was just this guy, like, You know, like, this guy was just so cool.
He had his cigarette and he had his beer.
And he was always awesome and he was there for me as a man up until he left, you know?
And I think I kind of got caught up in that.
And that's something that, like, you know, I can't say the image of my father drinking and smoking is what made me drink and smoke, but I can't say it didn't.
Yeah, that's the grand trick that cigarettes pull on you.
They give you comfort in that need to replenish.
Like, you give you a little stimulant from the nicotine and all the chemicals that are in the cigarette, and then you're so addicted to it that you have this weird stress when you don't have it.
And then when you smoke it...
Ah, it relieves that stress.
And you think that it's actually calming you down, but all it's doing is feeding the dragon.
You have to receive the information that he's telling you.
You have to really process what he's saying.
Because it's really a re-education of the dangers of...
It's kind of like what we learned in health class when we were in school as kids.
It's no different except over time the fear is not...
As heightened as it was when we were fourth graders sitting in the room with our teachers saying, your lungs are nice and pink like this.
And if you smoke, they're black like this.
Over time, we see pop culture.
We see the James Deans.
We see everything going on and it doesn't seem as dangerous.
And basically, this guy reminds you of the dangers and kind of reboots you and it's like, oh shit.
And as an adult, you take it a little bit It's really funny just how the cycle of life goes.
It's like, at my age, I guess, I was able to look at it in the same way I saw it as a fourth grader, you know, and just kind of realized, oh, this is hurting me.
His thing was that he was a comedian, but he also did some hypnotist work.
And he would always hypnotize girls.
And I remember very clearly, one time I was walking to the back of the comedy store, and he was talking to a girl, and she pulls her head away, and she goes, No, I don't want you to hypnotize me.
He's just basically, you know, just talking about, you know, just the dangers of cancer and what it could do to you and how it's just nasty and it's poison and just everything you could imagine that will kind of put it in the way for...
A human being to understand and get it like, okay, this is dangerous.
Because that's really what it is.
I think the average person that smokes doesn't see the danger in it like that.
Because you might see the old lady that's 80, 90 years old that's been smoking all her days that looks like she's fine.
And you just be like, well, I'll probably be that lady or I'll probably be that guy.
But the reality is you don't know.
And it's like a gamble every time.
And it's like literally...
Him just kind of, he'll give me scenarios too.
And I don't even know how much I can really talk about because he sells this.
This is like a thing he sells.
But, you know, he just really gives you examples, you know, just like scenarios, like simple example, like if you knew someone.
Was, you know, if you were dating a girl and you knew that, you know, she was known for poisoning her boyfriends, putting like poison or rat poison in her food, but there wasn't real proof, but every guy she dated kind of got murdered.
Yeah, like, he'll do things like, I want you to, you know, say yes, you know, so he'll, you know, to check and make sure that you're under or whatever.
There's certain things that he'll do, like, and you gotta, and I'm paying for it, so it's not like, you know, I'm not lying.
I think that's when he actually, like, I think two, the difference between the first stage and the second stage is like, the first stage, he doesn't really instill anything like, when you wake up from this, you're not going to be smoking cigarettes anymore.
Like, he doesn't say anything like that.
He's just like, educate you, and then he's like, no, you're going to come back, you know, and I'm going to count you out from 10 all the way up to 1, you know, and he counts you up and counts you up.
But he doesn't say, he says like, you can smoke this week, you know, and then after this, you're going to be done.
You know, so like, you come out of that first state just kind of like, okay.
But like I said, I was hesitant to smoke.
I really wanted to smoke, but...
What did he say?
There was something that stuck still in that first, you know, session that made me like...
Literally, I mean, he says everybody does it, but I know, you know, I'm pretty sure a lot of people have a hard time with it.
You know, it's just, you really, and this is what he says, and anybody that I know that's done it too, it's really just kind of like you have to be ready.
You know, in a weird way, you just got to be ready.
And I think that's with anything in life.
I mean, they try to make it like this thing, like, you just gotta be ready.
But, like, that's with anything.
Marriage, you know, even just dating someone, or whether it's a job.
You just gotta make that choice and just really want it for yourself and really commit, you know?
Right.
And really...
It costs money, too.
You're paying his money.
It's a waste of time.
Otherwise, he's the type of person where even though he's getting paid, he cares.
The dude is passionate.
He devotes his whole life to this.
This guy, Kerry Gaynor, I'm going to give you his contact.
He has a Twitter page and stuff, and he does this whole thing.
It's like, yeah, you've been doing science in your own house.
That's fucked, man!
That's the one thing, when everybody judges people, and everybody does love to judge people, the reality is, not everybody starts off in the same spot.
You know, some people get a shit spot in life.
And then some people, I think a bad spot or an imperfect spot a lot of times motivates them.
Well, I release all my music on vinyl and all my album covers I design.
For vinyl covers.
A lot of people don't know that, but I design all my album covers for vinyl and for that presentation to be able to see the artwork and have this and be able to hear it in a certain quality.
You know, if you can't play Kid Cudi back in 1960, at least you can kind of get a little taste of it.
Right, right.
So, like, we mix for vinyl.
We do everything for vinyl, ultimately.
You know, we're not doing this shit for, you know, iTunes and MP3s, you know?
Yeah, I think that that's what's missing in mainstream music.
I think everything is always moment to moment, single to single, who's got who on what record.
It's not about like sitting down and having an experience, you know, and I'm going to always create with that in mind.
And I think as long as I do that, I always have an audience because there's people, you know, like us that want that experience, that want that feeling to get the homies together.
And even if we all heard the album a trillion times, just to put it on from the beginning and let it play.
It's just dope.
Nobody really does that anymore.
Everybody's kind of like Spotify, this here, Pandora, just skipping around, skipping around, skipping around.
And that's because music is designed that way.
But you step into what we do, the kids know.
It's like, okay, you buy a Kid Cudi album, You probably have your friends come over.
But I had to get dress shoes and I was joking with my girlfriend that I was just going to buy black Crocs so I could use them other times than just dressing up.
Like, if you're lifting weights and stuff, you just feel the ground with them.
There's very little padding.
But it makes you think, like, those dudes like Julius Irving, like, back in the day where they used to wear those and actually play basketball games in them, that's incredible.
I mean, there's definitely people that will bullshit you, and there's definitely people that have layers to their personality that you didn't imagine.
Yeah, yeah.
Especially if you cross them.
If you develop some sort of a feud with them and you find out that they're willing to just go completely psycho on you and take shit to the next level and start banging on your fucking door in the middle of the night, screaming, get that hoe out of there.
And everybody wants to take that as a sign of rejection or a sign of your own lack of self-worth or something like that.
But it's not that.
Somewhere out there, there's someone who enjoys your personality.
If you're honest and you're nice, like if you're honest with yourself, you understand your flaws, whatever you're trying to do in this life, try to do it well.
If you got, you know, you got a lot of positive energy about you, you could probably find somebody.
Yeah, because I come from a world where anything that comes out of my mouth is taken so literally.
So it's like, I want to make sure that we understand we're dicking around here and having fun.
You know, and that's why I came here today, because I don't do interviews and I don't sit down and talk to anybody.
My fans know, because shit's weird.
You know, people aren't cool, you know?
Not everybody's as cool as Joe Rogan, bro, you know?
So, like, I'm a big fan, like I said, and I know you talk about psychedelics, and I saw something you were talking about one time when you were talking about how you went into, what is it, one of those chambers?
There's a bunch of different companies, but we'll talk afterwards because I'll ask you where you live, and then I'll tell you your best option, but the place that you want to visit, there's a place called the Float Lab, and it's in Venice, and the guy who runs it is my friend Crash.
He's actually been on the podcast before, and he's the master when it comes to float tank technology.
He's the guy that really changed the entire industry because it used to be like kind of home models that were like kind of flimsy.
And, you know, they would have all sorts of issues.
He fixed all the issues, changed all the filtration system, made them much more durable, much bigger, better insulation.
Like he's turned them into these incredible like complete next level devices.
That's in California.
So the best place is in California.
There's another place that's in Austin that is probably right up there.
And on top of that, I also have this right here, which is an oxygen scrubber, just like they have at those oxygen bars.
This little machine right here pulls oxygen, pure oxygen, out of the air, and it pumps it through this tube, and this tube gets...
It all gets pumped into the tank while I'm lying in it.
So I get pure oxygen, which is amazing for your mind anyway.
It makes you feel very refreshed.
And then on top of that, I'm in this weightless, bodiless experience where it's just you and your thoughts.
Usually my experience, it takes me the first 15-20 minutes is always just me thinking about my life, me thinking about my friendships, my relationships.
And because of the fact that you're in this tank with no light coming in and no sound, your brain doesn't have any work to do.
It doesn't have to worry about your balance.
It doesn't have to worry about moving you around or dealing with your environment in any way.
Nothing's coming in.
So this tank was created by this guy who's a pioneer in interspecies communications with dolphins.
He's this really crazy guy called John Lilly.
And he did all these really important...
Studies with dolphins, like trying to teach dolphins human words and trying to communicate with them.
Their noises are so much different than ours.
But he did a lot of it while he was on acid.
He was trying to develop a bunch of ways to get outside of the influence of the body.
Like, he was being very scientific about it.
And his ideas were, he used to have like a scuba tank that was like, like you had a helmet on, like one of those 25,000 leagues under the sea type helmets.
And he used to have it where it was like hooked up, where it was on a harness, and you would be sort of just dunked in the water.
So eventually you'd forget about the helmet, you'd forget about your body, you'd just chill out and relax, and the water was the same temperature as your skin.
So it becomes indistinguishable after a while, once he's got it dialed in just right.
You don't want it too hot, because then you can sweat.
You don't want it too cool, or you're cold in there and you start shivering.
He's a Goldilocks, 93 and a half degrees.
It's like 93 and a half, some people it's 94. Yeah.
So as you're lying there, you just stand up when you're done.
And you just get out.
It's nothing.
You can't drown.
The water's 11 inches and it's only 6 feet wide.
You touch the sides with your hands.
You center yourself in the middle and relax.
And when you do it, you get more and more comfortable every time you do it.
The first time you do it, it'll be a little weird.
Everybody's described it pretty much as what I always have said.
The first couple times, it's just about getting to relax.
Figuring out how to relax.
But once you've done it like a few dozen times, then it just becomes that thing you do.
You just get in there and you just...
But for me, it's giant.
Whenever there's any issues that I'm dealing with, any problems that I have, maybe creatively even, you know, I like to go in there.
I'll go in there with jujitsu problems.
I'll go in there with, like, try to analyze someone's movements.
Like, if there's a guy who, like, keeps catching me with a particular submission, I would go in the tank and I would try to work out, like, the defense for the submission in the tank.
And when you do sit like that, it activates your core, and it's actually good for your back.
And it makes my back feel great.
It's amazing.
Like, I do a three-hour podcast, my back doesn't fuck with me at all.
Whereas if I sit in a regular chair, after like three hours, I feel like tight, you know?
I feel like kinked up.
This doesn't do that at all.
But there's a lot of sensory input.
I think...
When you're dealing with, like, there's a keyboard in front of you, or you see that light, you see this clock, you see all these different things, you're taking in your entire environment, you're feeling the gravity of your body pulling into the chair.
There's all these things that your brain is calculating.
And if there were some people next to you that were screaming and yelling, it would be really hard to pay attention to what you're saying.
Like, sometimes we do these podcasts and they'll be unloading trucks, and we'll hear the trucks in the background.
I mean, I definitely need to try it because I've heard a lot about it, but I never really knew what it was, and I didn't really know how you would go about doing it.
And you were actually the first person, I might have heard about it in another conversation too, but you were the first person I heard talk about it extensively in detail.
And it wasn't this video.
I heard you talking about it in one of your podcasts.
Look, there's a lot of people that do renovations to their house.
They do all these different things.
They spend a lot of money.
That doesn't even come into the realm of possibility.
Like, we've got to get a hot tub.
That's there.
People love to get hot tubs.
Oh, Mike and Sue got a new hot tub.
Let's come on over.
We'll go sit in a jacuzzi.
Oh, nice.
What does this run you?
That's about five grand.
A little more, Bob.
And they have these fucking stupid conversations, but if one of them said, hey man, I'm thinking about getting an isolation tank, which is like, you could get one for less than that.
I think a company called Zen Float, they make one that's really inexpensive.
I think it's like $1,700.
It's like the least expensive one.
It's not the same as crashes.
Not even close.
It's flimsy, but it'll work.
I don't know how it deadens the sound anyway, but I guess being underwater deadens the sound.
And I think that that's like, you know, I'm a big Walkie Dead fan and you're a Walking Dead fan.
So like, you know, like Greg Nicotero, who's just like, you know, special effects legend, you know, did a lot of the earlier special effects in these movies, you know, and just to see Walking Dead and see like just how they use real practical effects and all the gore is just so real looking.
Yeah, so sick, man.
I'm just a horror movie fanatic, man.
I've just been obsessed with horror since I was a kid.
The Rick Baker werewolf from American Werewolf in London.
And one of the beautiful things about that movie was that there was no CGI. It was all Rick Baker's creation.
And they had to show it to you in these little flashes.
They couldn't just show you so much of it like they do today.
Like now, yeah, the monsters look way better, for sure.
But they're showing you too much.
So in showing you too much...
It actually looks shittier.
There's a lot of monster movies where one of the weird things about monsters, like a real monster movie, is you see them so briefly before they kill you.
It's like, oh Jesus, and then you're dead.
They sort of represented that in American Werewolf in London.
You saw that thing for a frame, two frames, and you were shit in your pants.
The guy was running through the subway, and there's a brief...
A couple frames where the werewolf's at the bottom of the escalator, and it's down there, and he's traveling up, and he sees the werewolf starting to make its way up the escalator, and he's shitting his pants.
It's a couple seconds, and it's gone.
And it's like, goddammit, it's so much better than showing people a CGI... Those movies that are kind of fun, underworld, those kind of underworld movies, but the werewolf is the hour of screen time as a werewolf.
It's like, you know, if you can tease the audience and build up that anticipation, it's like, you know, because you can, you know, do the CGI and make, you know, The monster look more present in the scene.
People aren't thinking about giving it to them in doses.
Like we said, the idea of putting together a movie.
Just the idea of getting all those people together.
I enjoyed Prometheus.
I mean, it wasn't the perfect sci-fi movie.
It wasn't as good as the original one, but I enjoyed it.
I thought it was fun.
And I love the idea behind it.
The idea of like, that's how he introduces his DNA into the new virgin planet by taking some horrible poison that breaks him down and he dies, falls into the water, and then slowly but surely a natural course of evolution grows out of his DNA and that's how people are created.
And I think he's probably been thinking about this for a long time before he created this.
And I don't know who wrote the screenplay.
But I would imagine all of them have been thinking about this for a long time.
Like, if you were going to, like, the right way to introduce life into another planet...
It'd be like, just get a planet that doesn't have any life, and you just inject something.
You know, some – and if it's a body, especially that breaks down, that body has also got all sorts of bacteria and weird shit on it.
And that's going to come out when it dies and the bacteria starts eating its flesh.
And will they be able to transmit and go to plants or other plant matter that's on this planet?
Is there some primitive life that it can cling to and morph with some sort of a virus?
Like diseases change people.
You know, diseases can probably change all sorts of other things.
Viruses and bacteria slowly mutate and morph out of this one body.
I mean, how far can a body go?
If a body rotted, if there was a planet – And that this planet had no biological life and you brought a body and you just threw it there.
All it had is plant life.
Is it possible that that could somehow or another have enough fuel from eating that body and figuring out how to subside off plants that they would figure out some sort of a way to become a viable life form on a planet?
If you lived on an island somewhere and you're by yourself, just out there, just you, sitting around, maybe you got a dog, you're sitting on this island, you got plenty of food, but you're bored as fuck, just looking out, waiting for someone to come.
It's like, yeah, we have each other, but the reality is we're on some weird round boat that's just bobbing around in the universe, and we want someone to come visit us.
Your attitude determines your success in a lot of your endeavors in life.
Your attitude, your approach that you take to it.
Sam Harris fucked me up, man.
I had this dude, Sam Harris, on the podcast, and he was talking about determinism.
And it's the idea that no one has free will.
And that basically everything about your personality has been formed by your interactions with your life experiences, your DNA, your genetics, your neighborhood that you grew up in.
And that that's just, no matter what you do, inescapable.
And that there is no free will.
Like, every decision you make is based on all the shit that's happened before.
It's sort of been determined by your past experiences and the chemical interactions with those past experiences.
And that you're on a path, and that path is almost undeniable.
It's a weird sort of a semantic argument, too.
Man, what's going on when you decide to not do coke anymore?
What's going on when you decide, you know, that's it, I'm not smoking anymore?
What is going on?
Because part of me wants to say, hey, Scott did some powerful shit.
He stepped up and he uses willpower and he uses intelligence to realize that he was on a bad path.
And that's an admirable thing to talk about because it inspires people who might be on a bad path themselves to kind of like catch your momentum and gives them confidence.
It gives them confidence hearing you today with your shit together all cool as fuck and think about you being this guy who was doing coke all the time and didn't like it.
I feel like there's got to be something there that made you do that.
This idea of pure determinism is really fascinating and I get it.
I totally get it.
I just wonder how much of personal choice is just...
What is the force that makes a person decide to do the right thing?
Well, I think it goes back to what we were talking about before.
If you kind of start from one place where you got to make your own way, it just kind of makes it a little bit...
You savor it a little bit more, and it means more when you get it.
Because you had to really work and achieve something.
But my whole thing is, when I was a kid, I was immediately looked at as someone who wasn't going to amount to shit.
It's just like, talk about starting from the bottom, that's the bottom.
When motherfuckers look at you as a human being and be like, oh, he's not going to amount to anything.
And you know that's what teachers, you know that's what your peers, you know that's what certain people in the neighborhood may think of you.
Because of whatever reason, whatever.
You know what I'm saying?
Off you just being in a certain environment.
So you already have that against you.
And then you don't want to conform.
You don't want to be a statistic.
And that's kind of like what my thing was.
I just didn't want to be another nigga out here lost and shit.
And that was what I made that choice at that time.
And I knew that me making that choice would help other people see that they can make the choice.
Because I was also inspired by some people that were in my space that weren't falling into the other shit.
It might have been like one of my homies that was like, you know, in the sports and like, you know, got good grades and play sports and wasn't caught up in some shit.
And I was like, man, this dude got some goals here.
You know, I might not be in the sports, but this dude right here has some type of goal because he don't want to turn up like this because we got that option, too.
So it's like, it was just a lot of things I was able to just like, and I was the youngest of four, so you know, I was able to just kind of be young and look at my older siblings and kind of like learn what not to do, and that's kind of why I used that whole like, I'm your big brother phrase in my music, because I feel like, you know, even with the mistakes I've made, that's what a big brother is supposed to do.
Like, I'm supposed to To make some mistakes so you can learn, you know?
And then those kids will learn and then they'll make their own mistakes and then there'll be a bunch of other kids that'll learn, you know?
It's like a system, you know?
And I kind of like, you know, I like that I'm that person.
You know, I like to take that whole Big Brother thing to that, you know, to the full extent into the music.
But I really believe that I had the odds against me in such a way.
And I also just...
I felt like everybody thought I was a loser from day one.
I was tired of feeling like that.
I was tired of people looking at me in that way and I wanted to finally find whatever it was that was my own, my calling to prove that, you know, because I tried everything else.
Do you think that in some ways, like, coming from a troubled background is like almost a gift?
Because it gives you that burning fire.
Or do you think it's like a double-edged sword because it gives you that gift, but it also gives you, like, this hole that sometimes is difficult to keep filled?
And this is another thing I was talking to somebody about, you know, because...
You know, I was raised, when I think of strength, I think of a woman.
I was raised by my mom, you know?
And that is something that I, you know, she's someone I always will look up to, how she just sacrificed everything and took care of us, you know, on a teacher's salary.
And that, for me, is like I got that role model.
Like somebody who, like, could have just been like, damn, I got four kids, I need to be chasing a man and trying to find some man to come take care of us.
It was more like, you know, I got married, it didn't work out.
Now I just need to figure it out for my kids.
I just have that.
I just kind of always looked up to my mom in that way.
I didn't want to be a failure to her.
I wanted to...
Show her that I could be great and be as strong as she was.
Yes, it can backfire because then it becomes, for me, it becomes like, I definitely did my last, not the album I did, my album before last with that angry, spiteful, villainous energy.
And I was able to make some really great records, but it was the most aggressive music I had ever made.
And some of it was the most aggressive on a lot of levels.
Not even in the mean way, but just the music itself.
And I benefited what I... Set out to do.
It all benefited.
It wasn't the normal way I went about making an album.
So it was weird.
It was something that I took a step back with afterwards and then dropped the second album.
I was like, alright, this one's not so...
I really feel like I'm going up against the masses.
I really have something to prove here.
This is more about just being at some type of peace and just having things sorted out once all the madness is all done.
Now it's just right.
That's why I did Indica and then I did Satellite Flight.
I feel like Indica was me just figuring out how to produce, you know, and make records and then Satellite Flight was me having it mastered and finally putting together something that was just like fine-tuned, you know, but in a different structure where I have like some instrumentals and then You know, they're kind of like interludes.
And then, you know, records that are just completely, you know, formatted in different ways.
Maybe not the three-verse, two-hook formula.
Maybe just one long verse and one outro.
And, you know, maybe no hook at all.
Maybe no drums for the first minute and 30 seconds.
But there's, like, raps.
You know?
Just experimenting and trying things.
You know, not that I have that expertise with creating a record.
It was pretty interesting stuff, but I remember that, and I remember thinking, like, man, like, why don't more people do, like, weird shit with music?
Like, how many people are thinking the way you're thinking?
Like, saying, like, okay, how about we just do no drums for, like, the first minute and a half, and then just start rapping, and then the drums kick in?
Like, these kind of things where you're just, like, coming up with, like, just a different approach.
I think people are just a little scared that they'll lose the audience's attention, which is a very real fear.
I get it.
But it also goes back to what I was saying.
I've just been blessed with a fan base that is into what I'm doing no matter what.
And that's just dope.
But the average artist, no, they can't.
Just experiment.
And there's that fear where they might not sell records.
And then that's bad for business.
And this is a business.
It's understood why most guys don't really do it.
I would like to see people do it.
I feel like that's not an excuse.
I feel like there's a way where people can be a little bit more creative and push the envelope a lot more with the music, where it fits in in a way that makes sense and it's true to their art and their formula.
I feel like, yeah, there's always a way to try something new and be innovative and bring something different to the table.
If anybody wants to check out that brand new Heavys that I was talking about, it's called Heavy Rhyme Experience.
And it was the brand new Heavys, it was 92, way back in the day when I was living in New York.
And...
My friend god damn it trying to remember his name stand-up comedian told me about him he goes you gotta listen to this shit these guys are doing some weird stuff they did a Duo with cool G rap.
They did one of them with a gang star.
It was pretty badass That a bunch of different collaborations so like jazz singers was like rap like serious like best of the class back then Hardcore rappers rapping over their their rhyme or their music.
It's pretty cool.
Oh wow Yeah.
But your point about having the fan base that allows you to fuck around and practice and take chances, that is huge, isn't it?
Yeah.
This ability that, you know, they like you as a person as well as like your music.
They know I'm just trying to make some cool shit that they can connect with.
And that's the extent.
Every time.
It doesn't go beyond that.
And the minute it tries to, it just starts to get frustrating.
Like, start thinking about a radio record to please somebody at the label.
Then it gets frustrating.
If I start to think about this and that and for this, it gets frustrating.
If I keep it just based on, like, hey man, this sounds gnarly.
And let's make sure it's not...
Too trippy, and it's make sure it's not too this and not too that, but an effortless combination of everything all at once.
And that's really what these past couple years for me have been, just mastering that technique as a producer.
You know, really, really just going all out creatively and just trying new things because I also internally don't feel like I have anything else to prove as a musician.
I have that itch.
I need to create.
I feel like it's working out for me.
It's like doing reps and staying mentally fit, creatively fit.
So when it comes time to do an album, I've got some new powers I've acquired in the past year.
Dicking around in the studio for a couple months is going every day making beats whether I'm in the studio for five hours or two hours I'm making something I'm making at least like on average I make about In the studio I'm making at least two to four beats a day and when I say beats I'm talking about completed sequenced instrumentals that I could make records on.
So like not just some shit I started a little bit and then it's kind of cool and I'll get back to it later.
I have probably like a baker's dozen of those in one session.
But I'll have like four that are officially like, oh these jams are dope, I'm gonna sit and live with these and see what comes up.
Yeah, I'm hearing, I mean, here's, you know, when I'm hearing something, I hear it completed, right?
So when I'm starting a record and I feel like I got something, I'm like, alright, this song, I feel like, and it's back to what you were talking about, because, you know, I feel like, you know, time doesn't really exist, so...
An hour from now is happening right now, right?
So there's songs that are created that I haven't made yet.
So when I'm in the studio, I feel like I have this small peek into this other world and this window that I can hear the song, but it's my job in the present to find the pieces to make it so.
And sometimes it might come out exactly like what I'm hearing and sometimes it might not, but it's never really spot on.
You know, I just hear glimmers of what the song completed sounds like until it's completed and then it's just everything's perfect.
But that's how I can sit there and listen to a mix and be like, something's off.
Because in my completed version, you know, it's like a coloring book.
Every record starts off in one way, just blank, and I'm just filling in all the colors.
And then there's one color still missing.
You know, that's what's happening in the final, in the ninth inning, you know, when we're mixing the album.
I mean, there's still some colors that just not in there yet.
And then I'm going through sounds and I find the colors and everything's full and I'm cool.
Or I might not find the exact color, but if I'm close enough, I'm fine.
And like, that's literally where it's at, where you have to make the executive decision.
Like, all right, I'm done with this.
So I'll be sitting for another two weeks trying to sit with this mix because I'm really anal about it.
And if I don't just back away and let it be, We'll never hear any music.
I mean, whatever, which way ever comes, you just show up.
You show up and you put in the work.
You put in the work, creating the beats, you put in the work, coming up with lyrics, whatever way it comes up, whether it comes up all in your head or whether it comes up writing it down on paper.
And the sessions are really me and my engineer Ian, and occasionally I have, like, my brother from another mother, Dr. Genius, coming through, who, you know, is in a band that I came up with a couple years ago that, you know, we kind of just put together because we wanted to try something outside of the world we were already making music in.
I mean, one could peek in and feel bad for me, like, oh, he's got nobody in the studio with him.
But then, like...
But then you know I'm in there like a mad scientist.
I'm inventing.
It's not like an inventor don't get 20 motherfuckers in his lab while he inventing shit.
Niggas will steal his shit.
Or they'll rack focus and distract him.
I find that when you have your friends in the studio, you got a couple guys on Worldstar, a couple guys on Twitter, a couple guys over here, and everybody's talking about what's going on over here and what's going on over here.
You're trying to write this song.
You get distracted.
You're like, what happened?
Oh, hell no!
That's funny, funny!
Next thing you know, it's two hours have gone by.
You're still working on this record.
You had some laughs, but what you came to the studio for is not done yet.
Right.
You know, and there's money being spent.
There's time.
Time is of the essence.
This is what we hustled and worked hard for.
And I had to remind myself, this has turned into a fucking party.
We're here for work.
So I also have this really gnarly work ethic.
Because I've been working since I was 15. My first job was Wendy's.
I remember why I wanted to work.
It was because I wanted my own shit.
I was tired of asking my mom for stuff.
And also, didn't think it was fair to ask my mom for stuff.
Because I know we didn't have much.
So, you know, work for me is always one of those things that's very important.
But there was also some jobs that I didn't fucking take seriously, like American Apparel.
Where I was coming in late and I didn't give a shit.
And when my boss fired me, he took me to this office and kind of told me.
And when he said it, he was like, I'm going to have to let you go.
Now I can, like, work on my craft and then maybe find a better paying job, you know, that doesn't have me in the fucking basement of some building, you know, sweating my ass out, folding clothes.
That would hurt my feelings if that was the word around town that my main bread and butter I've been doing, investing my life in, that I'm just shitty at.
Yeah, I've never been to any sort of recording studio where anybody was doing anything serious like that, but I would imagine it's very difficult to avoid the party.
It's like, hey, we're in studio and guys come to visit you.
But that could also be when the album's done and they're celebrating it, because that's what also happens.
Like when I'm done with...
Let's say I finished maybe eight songs and I feel like I've got the album and I just need maybe a couple more jams.
You start inviting people to come hear what you got and get their opinions.
So you have those moments too.
So you might see that happen, but there's a year and a half of just studio by myself before that happens.
I don't really, and maybe occasionally I have one or two friends.
Maybe one of my director friends or my fellow actors who I just kind of want, who have never really got a chance to be in the studio, come by and just see, get the experience.
But they're not in there distracting me.
They're just watching and paying attention and want to...
Yeah, well, a lot of people are really curious about it because it's almost sort of a mysterious type of creativity if people aren't involved in it, especially the creating of music.
It's such a cultural...
It's such a cultural influence.
It's such a powerful influence.
Music inspires people.
When you listen to music at the gym, it can make you work out better.
You put your headphones on and you play some awesome songs.
You don't give a fuck that you're on some stupid stair machine like a hamster.
You just keep going.
And the music, you like the music so much you get into it and it's in your head, drowning out everything else.
Sometimes you don't even realize how heavy you're breathing.
Until you take the earplugs out, you're like, holy shit, I'm fucking working here.
Nothing else hits you like that.
People's words, they don't sustain that way.
You can't read an incredibly passionate essay, and it sustains you through a workout like that.
No, it's like, it needs to be just something that, like, there's nothing like music in that respect.
It has an impact that very few things do.
So that process of creating it is always fascinating and mysterious to people like me that don't have any musical talent at all.
I just approach it in a different way because I do feel like every time I'm in the studio it's just me trying to create the uncreated and it's a very private thing sometimes.
I want to be able to have my privacy when I do that.
Yeah, it's like, man, I'm fresh in the morning with something.
It's a melody.
And it usually comes just walking through the house, making breakfast and...
You know, it could be whenever.
Dropping a deuce.
You know?
I come up with just melodies here and there.
And I record them all if something really catches me.
Because if I don't record them immediately, then I lose them.
So, you know, I got to record them somehow.
But it's very...
I'm always...
I'm always thinking about music.
As much as I like to deny it and go shoot a movie and shit, I always think about music.
I'm obsessed with the idea of just making The most beautiful songs that like, you know, really make people feel some type of comfort or some type of understanding because the world is so fucked and You know, I just really am obsessed with that idea.
I think I'm always going to be and now I'm just trying different different ways of doing that, you know We did the rap shit.
We did the rock album.
Now.
I'm just trying to be this like weird instrumentalist You know, and I don't really know what that's gonna be, but I'm just really, I guess, in the process learning how to produce better, too, which is something that, you know, I've been trying to, you know, I always want to be better, so it's good to, you know, be learning and getting better as I'm creating.
I've done about five t-shirt collaborations with Bathing Ape.
I used to work there.
That was my last job before I got famous.
Roots back in New York and that was pretty much one of those, the only job I really kept in touch with, you know, that I went back to and, you know, did some things for the fans.
My engineer, I'll just tell him, pull up everything and we'll just listen to things one by one.
Flag the ones that are good and the ones that...
You know, because that's the thing.
You always got to give yourself a break and it's always good to listen to stuff with fresh ears, I find.
And also...
To just give your brain a break, because for me, I'm sitting in the studio for hours listening to the same old shit, like the same old beat that you're working on.
So it's kind of like you need to back off a second.
I like to work on a record.
Bounce them.
Bounce them means compressing all those sounds to one track to make that mp3.
That's what you bounce down a file.
That's what you guys get on your iPods.
It's a bounce down file of all the files.
So I'll bounce down everything.
The ones that I feel like were close to being finished are reasonable enough for me to listen to and write to.
And I won't listen to them that night.
I wake up the next day, and while I'm making breakfast, I might listen to them then with fresh ears.
And I'll be like, oh shit.
Most of the time, it's like, oh, this is dope.
Because the night before, I'm just like, oh, this shit sucks.
You go out and you do Coachella and it's like, alright, I got fucking Coachella to do.
Let's come with the hits.
Let's give them the joints they want to hear.
I'm not going to go out into Coachella and be like, alright guys, so I know you guys know these songs as they are produced on the album, but we're doing them all acoustic tonight.
It's like when a comic goes to the club he used to do stand-up at before he blew up because he knows those are his people and he could be himself there and try new jokes.
That's the same deal.
That's how I approach tour.
I don't let press in unless they buy a ticket.
You want to come to my show, then fucking buy a ticket.
Because most of the time you give the press their ticket and they're writing talking shit.
So it's like you're giving motherfuckers a free pass to come see your show so they can talk shit.
It's like, no, asshole, you want to talk shit about my show, you're going to have to pay for it.
You know, the average hip-hop show, it's like you see your favorite artist come out, at best, perform the hits.
They're almost there, but you can't touch them, but it's just dope to know that you're in the same building with them, and then that's the end of it.
And that's just what you take.
It's like, man, we were in the nosebleeds, but it was really nice.
We was, you know, there at the night with that, my favorite rapper or whatever.
This shit with me...
It's more therapy.
I'm confessing some things through song.
You're seeing me confess these things.
You see the emotion as I'm performing.
And then there's kids out there that are connecting with it in such a way where it's like, man, I already connect with this dude, but he's performing it in such a way where he means it even more.
He's singing it in a way where he means it even more in this environment.
It's a different experience.
And I love giving people that experience.
I love connecting with them in a way where everybody at that concert is paying attention and they're there because they want to experience something.
He hit me up and he just simply asked me how much he should take of some shrooms.
I don't know.
I just saw it and I was like, oh, okay.
I gave him a response.
I didn't think nothing of it, but then I saw a lot of people responding, and I was like, oh, this is cool.
Other people were asking me questions.
Then I was like, holy shit.
This could be bad.
This could be really bad.
But then it's like, you know what?
The I am your big brother shit.
If they're going to do drugs and they want to know about it, at least ask me.
Come to me.
I'll give you the real shit.
If you want them to ask somebody...
Ask me.
And that's kind of how I looked at it.
It ended up being this thing.
But then I know that you talk about psychedelics and you have specifically talked about DMT because I answered the question about DMT. And that's why I was like, man, we should talk about this with Joe.
Because I know that I can't sit down with just anybody and talk about DMT. Even some of my friends, I've told them that I've done it and they've looked at me in a way where it's like...
You know, it's like, whoa, you did DMT. It's a game changer.
Yeah, yeah.
But that lets me know that there's people that don't understand it and they're not educated about it.
And so they just kind of hear these stories.
And that's also why I was like, man, it would be dope if we just sat down and talked about it and educate some people.
Because I just know it's...
I mean, even some people are scared of acid.
It's a scary thing.
You know, I tell people...
I remember, this is a true story.
I hope so.
This is kind of like one of those things where, you know, I'm not throwing this kid under the bus, but, you know, this is a reality.
I was at Coachella.
We were backstage.
I ran into Wiz Khalifa, you know, and I see him, you know, often, and he was telling me he was doing shrooms or whatever and experimenting with shrooms, and I was like, oh, man, you should do acid, and he was just like, no.
And I was like, oh man, well you know, Shrooms is like the training wheels of fucking psychedelics and shit, you know?
And he's like, oh man, I'm not fucking with that though.
You can just tell that it was just, maybe he might have known somebody had a bad trip or he heard some bad things, but like, there was like fear.
And I was just like, oh, It's like, man, people are kind of like taken back when you say you do assets sometimes.
And even when I talk about it on Twitter, people be like, whoa, chill, you want some other shit.
And it's like, man, like, I mean, I don't really see it.
He apparently, I don't know if that's true, the whole LSD thing.
But it says, this is the Wikipedia, it says, throughout late 1967 and early 1968, Barrett's behavior became increasingly erratic and unpredictable, partly as a consequence of his reported heavy use of psychedelic drugs, most prominently LSD. Many reports described him on stage strumming one chord through the entire concert or not playing at all.
At a show at the Fillmore in San Francisco during a performance of Interstellar Overdrive, Barrett slowly detuned his guitar.
The audience seemed to enjoy such antics, unaware of the rest of the band's consternation.
Interviewed on the Pat Boone Show during the tour, Sid's reply to Boone's question was, Blank and totally mute stare, according to Nick Mason.
We were talking about cigarettes earlier and in a world where cigarettes are legal and they kill half a million people in this country alone every year, it's preposterous to think that we're too much of a group of fucking babies to deal with psychedelics.
We need, like, centers.
We need centers where you have educated people with, you know, like, degrees who understand the human body, doctors who can administrate it, people who can take care of people, and have them in these really comfortable environments where people go and they have the possibility in a professional setting of experiencing these things.
And that should be a part of normal human culture.
But at the same time, for people that might not be educated, it's still hard for me to put in the words what I saw.
But, you know, the reality is what you're seeing is everything literally melt down and deconstruct and reconstruct around you.
And your eyes are wide open.
And it literally, for me, that was the only thing that freaked me out.
The fact that my eyes weren't closed, but my environment was completely altered.
Immediately, almost before I could even exhale all the smoke, before I was even leaning back on my couch, I mean, the room rearranged itself and became something else.
Graham Hancock is a very fascinating way of looking at it.
And what he thinks, the way he described it to me, I never heard anybody describe it this way before, but it made total sense.
He said, everyone says, you're taking drugs and it's distorting your perception of reality, and that's what you're saying.
He goes, that is a possibility.
Another possibility is that, like a telescope, needs to be tuned in to see a far-off star, that what you're doing by taking this chemical that your brain already makes, you're tuning in to something that's ordinarily impossible for you to see, and that there is this dimension that is around you all the time, and it is filled with intelligent entities.
And he said, we must consider that that is also a possibility.
And that is a fascinating way of looking at it.
Because we really don't know what's happening, and the people that aren't blown away by it are just the people who haven't done it.
If you've done it and you're not blown away by it, I don't understand you.
There's also supposedly some people who don't have a reaction to DMT. There's a small percentage of people that try it where nothing happens.
There's the information you're getting from your eyeballs.
There's two different trips.
Yeah, and then there's what's going on in your imagination or your mind.
Whatever the imagination is.
Not even to...
Implied that it's not real or it's not a real experience the imagine the term the imagination has a lot of like negative connotations to it But whatever it's going on when you got your eyes closed you're not there's no physical objects in front of you You're seeing all this stuff happening in your in your visual field with your eyes closed But you're not you know, there's nothing you reach out and grab so that's why I'm saying imagination But whatever you're doing when you're doing that is real I don't know what it is.