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Aug. 13, 2014 - The Joe Rogan Experience

02:54:36

Joe Rogan Experience #534 - Robin Black

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joe rogan

01:33:01

robin black

01:19:31

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andy stumpf

00:03

craig jones

00:06

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Speaker	Time	Text
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and everybody else.
		What's up, fuckers?
		This episode is brought to you by LegalZoom.
		LegalZoom is a pretty awesome service.
		And what it is, is a website.
		Essentially a self-help website that allows you to do a lot of the things that you would ordinarily have to go to an attorney's office to handle.
		You can do it yourself online.
		They were developed by top attorneys to provide self-help services at your specific direction.
		It's not a legal firm, it's not a law firm, but they provide you with Legal self-help, and they can also provide you with a contact for a third-party independent attorney if the shit hits the fan.
		And what does this mean?
		This means that if you want to form an LLC, if you want to incorporate, if you want to get a will, power of attorney, living trust, things along those lines, you can do all that step-by-step on LegalZoom, and it's very easy to do.
		I know a lot of people have done that.
		Onnit was formed that way.
		Brian formed his desk squad company that way.
		All that is done through LegalZoom.
		Super easy to do.
		There's a lot of things that you would ordinarily have to go to a lawyer.
		You'd have to put your clothes on.
		You'd have to make an appointment.
		You could be naked drunk at home.
		And do legal stuff.
		It's amazing.
		Amazing!
		And not very expensive.
		You can form an LLC from 99 bucks.
		They've been helping Americans get personal wills, power of attorney, doing all that stuff for over 10 years.
		And they have an A-plus from the Better Business Bureau, which to me is giant.
		They don't just give those away.
		So I like that.
		I know people that have used this service.
		I like that my friends have used this service, and I like that I just hear nothing but good things about them.
		You can even get a divorce if, you know, the other person you're getting a divorce with is really cool.
		But if they're not, and then if they're really that cool, why are you divorcing them?
		What the fuck are you doing?
		I wonder how many people have gotten divorces through LegalZoom.
		It's probably like three.
		I might be wrong, but you could do it.
		So, go there.
		Go to LegalZoom.com.
		Enter the code word ROGAN in the referral box at checkout, and you can save some money that way.
		Protect your family.
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		All of it at LegalZoom.
		Legal help furnished through vetted independent attorneys.
		It's a sweet fucking website.
		I really enjoy LegalZoom.
		I like the fact that there's a lot of things that, you know, it used to be super inconvenient to deal with Like simple legal issues, like forming a corporation.
		You can do all of that now.
		You can start your own business now at LegalZoom.com.
		And when you do that, go to the checkout box and the referral box at checkout, rather, and enter in the code word ROGAN for more savings.
		So that's LegalZoom.com and enter the code word ROGAN. We're also brought to you by NatureBox.
		I got a new batch of NatureBox, Jamie.
		Oh, you're going to love all this new groovy shit we got, but no sriracha cashews.
		I fucking talk too much about sriracha cashews, and now you bitches all buy them up.
		They ain't no sriracha cashews left.
		We're fucking killing the cashew farmers.
		Those poor cashew farmers and those poor sriracha makers, they're working double, triple overtime, sweating their balls off trying to make sriracha cashews.
unidentified		I need some.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
unidentified		I need some.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we all need some.
		Blueberry almonds, though.
		Dark cocoa almonds.
		Have you had those?
		Oh, good lord.
		And peanut butter nom-noms.
		They might be my new favorite.
		Peanut butter nom-noms might take the place of sriracha cashews.
		But I shouldn't tell you fuckers, because then you buy them all up, too.
		What NatureBox is, is you order it online, and you pick the stuff that you want, and then they send you boxes every week.
		And here's the deal behind it.
		If you are a person that works in an office, and you have one of those goddamn vending machines that tempts you, you're kinda hungry, and you walk by, and the most healthy thing in there is some shitty-ass granola bar, and you know that's not what you want to eat, and you definitely don't want to eat candy, but you wind up doing it just because you're hungry.
		NatureBox gives you hundreds, and I mean hundreds, of delicious snacks to choose from.
		Really good stuff, and there's a lot of stuff that you don't have to feel guilty about.
		There's a few things that are a bit questionable.
		A few pretzels and things along those lines are not necessarily good for you.
		But they have zero trans fats, zero high fructose corn syrup, all the stuff that's really shitty for your body, low in sugar.
		You can get plenty of them that are low in sugar, non-GMO, and without gluten.
		And they ship for free.
		Peanut butter nom noms, like I said, are my favorites, but...
		There's so many good ones.
		The blueberry almonds, the Big Island pineapples are fantastic.
		There's a lot of really healthy choices that you can choose from that are delicious.
		They're really good.
		I've signed up a bunch of friends on NatureBox.com and no one's complaining.
		Everybody's enjoying the shit out of it.
		Brian's completely addicted to it.
		That fucker doesn't even go food shopping anymore.
		He just buys NatureBox and has it stacked around his house.
		He needs to go to a goddamn grocery store.
		He wonders why he's not feeling good all the time.
		Fucking dude smoking cigarettes and eating snacks.
		Like, have a goddamn meal.
		But in between meals, NatureBox is seriously the way to go.
		It's the official snack provider for the Joe Rogan Experience podcast.
		We have them laying around the office right now.
		I just brought in a brand new box.
		And if you go to naturebox.com right now, you'll get 50% off your month's first box.
		So go to naturebox.com slash rogan.
		That's naturebox.com slash rogan for 50% off your month's first box.
		Try it out.
		No more hungriness, no more crankiness, and no more shitty choices from those goddamn vending machines.
		Really yummy food that's packaged in a very convenient, easy way.
		It's delicious, and it's about as good a choice as you can get when it comes to snack foods.
		So naturebox.com forward slash Rogan.
		Go there and enjoy some delicious savings.
		And last but not least, we're brought to you by Onnit.com.
		That is O-N-N-I-T.
		We are a human optimization website.
		At Onnit, we sell all of the very best in strength and conditioning equipment and supplements, athletic supplements, supplements that are designed to help you improve your performance, both in cognitive function, your physical fitness performance, your endurance, whatever.
		We have things that aid in recovery.
		We just find whatever the best shit that we can find online, whether it's athletic equipment like battle ropes or kettlebells or things along those lines, medicine balls, all things that provide what we call functional strength.
		And what functional strength is...
		The idea behind functional strength is athletic equipment and exercises that improve performance in any given task.
		Like if you do bicep curls, it's not necessarily going to help you do jiu-jitsu.
		Or it's not going to necessarily help you throw punches better.
		It's going to make your arms look bigger.
		You look all fucking sexy at the beach and shit.
		But the reality of athletic performance is your body has to move as one individual unit, all parts moving together to enhance your athletic performance, not just your ability to lift weights in a very specific and isolated way.
		And that's what kettlebells are all about.
		I'm a huge fan of kettlebells.
		If you've heard this podcast before, you're probably like, will you shut the fuck up about kettlebells?
		Jesus Christ, son!
		But I just think that these bad fucking Russians, they figured out some cool shit and they figured out a long time ago one of the best ways to improve athletic performance is this thing called a kettlebell.
	It's like a bowling ball, an iron bowling ball with a handle on top of it.
	And it's all about swinging these things around.
	And it's all about overcoming inertia and using your whole body in these explosive movements.
	And it is just absolutely fantastic for developing full body strength, like full body strength where you can just move couches easier.
	You know, if you're doing any sort of a sport, whether it's tennis or, you know, anything, you will have more physical strength to draw upon.
	And we sell the very best ones that we can find, including the Primal Bells and the Zombie Bells, which are two artistic kettlebells that we had designed.
	We had the Primal Bells designed, the Great Apes.
	It's chimpanzees, howler monkeys, orangutans, and gorillas.
	All various weights from 18 pounds up to 72 pounds.
	And they're all 3D balanced as well.
	There's some artistic kettlebells that are out there from other companies, and they look really cool, but the reality is you want a kettlebell to be completely symmetrically balanced so that when you're swinging it, there's not like some weird momentum that comes from the odd shape of it.
	We designed these kettlebells to make sure that not only do they look great, but they function the exact same way as regular kettlebells.
	So either prepare for the guerrilla takeover or the zombie apocalypse with primal bells or zombie bells and then get your freak on at Onnit.com.
	That's O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word ROGAN and you will save 10% off any and all supplements.
	Alright, that's it.
	End of commercials.
	Robin motherfucking Black is here.
	Cue the music.
	Young Jamie, let's get going.
unidentified		The Joe Rogan Experience.
		Train by day.
		Joe Rogan Podcast by night.
		All day.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's very few people in this life can say that they've gone from glam rock to expert MMA commentary and even fighting in MMA. Very few people other than you, Robin Black.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		There might be some lady out there, some chick, I don't know.
		Yeah, pretty weird.
		I tend to try to do stuff that I like.
		That's kind of my goal in life, is to do a bunch of stuff I like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a beautiful goal, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And if everybody did that, we would have a lot more happy people in this world.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think you're right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you do a fantastic job.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You work for the Fight Network in Canada, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you do a fantastic job of breaking down fights.
		And your enthusiasm is so contagious.
		It's really cool.
unidentified		Yeah, thanks.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I've really enjoyed watching those videos because as a person myself who's a huge fan of fights and just...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's so many aspects that I think that maybe the casual fan might miss.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Or the person who has never trained or competed might miss.
		And you do a great job of sort of encapsulating those really important moments and highlighting them and isolating them.
		And you do it all with passion.
		It's really fun.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Man, thank you.
		That is the coolest thing anyone's ever said to me.
		I really fucking love doing these things.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can tell.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
		Like, I spend hours sitting there and look at how beautifully these guys move.
		And the moment in time where two unwilling guys are like, they each are trying to choreograph their own thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And what's going on psychically, what's going on mentally.
		Like, it, honest to God, I've done a lot of fun things and they all seem to kind of lead to this.
		And if I could only do one thing for the rest of my life, I'd spend my time in my little lab researching what's going on when two men fight.
		Like, that's what I do with my life.
		And that's what I do now, and I absolutely love doing it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you could tell.
		And like I said, as someone like me, who's also a huge fan of MMA and a huge fan of watching two people try to figure each other out in the most dangerous and the most high-stakes sport, I think, in the world.
		Maybe not the most dangerous as far as, I mean, I guess maybe NASCAR is probably more dangerous, dangerous, but the high stakes of the human...
		Hand-to-hand combat, to me.
		There's so much on the line.
		There's so much psychologically going on.
		And there's so many little things.
		I'm sure there's a lot that I'm missing if I watch basketball.
		I'm sure there's a lot that I'm missing if you watch football.
		But when it comes to striking and grappling and mixed martial arts, the variables are so gigantic.
		And the different approaches to overcoming those variables are so gigantic.
		You did a recent thing on Gunnar Nelson.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And Gunnar Nelson, who is a jiu-jitsu expert and now an MMA fighter out of Iceland, who's a really interesting dude, like super stoic.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, cold.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, fucking cold as ice.
		Never smiles, never laughs.
		He's a weird dude, but wicked jiu-jitsu.
		I remember him from just before he ever got into MMA or high-level MMA. He beat...
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Monsen?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fucking Monsen, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Who's a gorilla!
		I remember seeing this little guy on Monson's back.
		I'm like, who is that motherfucker?
		Like, that guy's a beast.
		How do you take Jeff Monson's back?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that calmness, he uses that so intelligently.
		I'm reading this book.
		Have you heard of this book, The Rise of Superman?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Oh, dude.
		You have to read this book immediately.
		So this guy goes, and he has researched the biochemistry that's happening in the brain.
		At the moments where people feel like a surfer feels like at one with the wave, you know, where a free climber feels at one with the wall, there's actually biochemistry happening in the brain.
		And there's four neurotransmitters that are released simultaneously.
		And in that moment, there's all of these things that humans do better.
		One of them is pattern recognition.
		So when two guys are fighting, you can see patterns in how they move and predict outcomes, right?
		Different guys get into it in different ways.
		The bulk of the research is on action-adventure sports, like flipping motorcycles through the air five times and stuff.
		Because those guys, if they are not in that state, they die.
		So the level now, there's exponential growth in what people can now do in that state.
		Because it's sort of a global experiment that men are pushing each other further and further.
		I mean, everybody used to gather around to see Evel Knievel jump 10 buses.
		Now, every day, 10 guys do that and flip four times while doing it.
		So the level of what people are able to mentally accomplish.
		So that's happening in fighting.
		And I'm obsessed with science.
		So what's going on physically is fascinating, what's going on psychologically, but the science is crazy.
		And that's kind of where my research is going now.
		If you could take an EEG and put it on their brain in the highest moments of combat, what's going on in there?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if you ever could do that, because if they were in that highest moment of combat and they had an EEG on their brain, would they be thinking the same?
craig jones ▲ ● ▼		Because would they realize they had an EEG on their brain?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Would it distract them?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Well, in theory, If all these people screaming and you sitting at the side of the cage and wearing your underpants getting punched in the face, if all that isn't distracting, a couple of things on your head, it's hard to say though.
		I mean, the state, what you want to check with that EEG or something is the mental state, the biochemistry, the neurology happening in the brain.
		And if they're not in that state, you can't do it.
		But people have done it in other sports.
		They've done it and looked at what's happening in the brain and there's something called...
		Hypofrontalism, where actually less is happening in the front of your brain during these moments of perfect performance.
		And that's what this book's about.
		This guy is chemically analyzing the highest level of performance.
		So to take that into fighting, these guys are operating at that level now.
		The top guys, Carlos Condit.
		Is operating at that level.
		You know, he's operating in moments of pure flow.
		And when these guys are in those moments, what's happening in that, that shit's fascinating.
		Like to look at fights and look and see that these guys are operating in the highest level of human performance and in that state against each other, they're fighting each other.
		It's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's really fascinating.
		The book is called The Rise of Superman, and it's by a guy named Steven Kotler.
		And it's got four and a half stars on Amazon.com, so that's a pretty good sign.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's a great book.
		I'm going to do a little breakdown on what's going on with pattern recognition in that state.
		And imagine you and I are both in that state, and you know that I'm starting to recognize patterns.
		You can lay traps for me by doing something called chunking, where you'll go one, two, three, four.
		And I'll start to recognize that pattern and anticipate it, and you'll change one thing in that pattern and hit me.
		So chunking, understanding that I'm predicting your patterns and using that against me, all of that kind of stuff just fascinates the shit out of me right now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's always been a big thing about striking, about changing up the speed of your approach and also throwing feints in, pretending to go one way and going another.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's all sorts of different things that people have done to try to offset pattern recognition.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		In each other's brains.
		The better your brain performs, the different I have to approach to make you pay for having such a good performing brain.
		You know what I mean?
		Your brain can anticipate stuff, so I need to make that a bad thing for you.
		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So what it says here is that flow is caused by a mighty cocktail of five powerful chemicals, from dopamine to serotonin.
		And that's interesting.
		I've never really thought about it, that they have all these chemicals flowing together.
		I've always thought of it as just sort of a quote-unquote state of mind, that you achieve a state of mind.
		But this state of mind being a bunch of neurotransmitters that are flowing together in the optimum levels.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, man.
		Like, think of that.
		The way...
		Your state of mind affects your emotion, and your emotion affects your biochemistry, and your biochemistry affects your performance.
		So they're linked to each other.
		So that idea that guys get focused, that focus causes a biochemical change in their brain.
		This is the kind of shit I want to go to next on my breakdowns.
		Like start playing with this kind of stuff.
		Evolutionary things.
		You probably read that the hand, part of the reason it evolved the way it did, was for fighting.
		Have you read that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And the jaw.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the shape of a man's face.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		So I start looking at what that means and why.
		The science of that kind of stuff is just starting to blow my mind.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It is totally fascinating stuff, and it's also the thing about achieving this flow state that's so maddening for people is that it just slips through your fingers.
		It's there, and it's gone.
		You achieve these brief moments where you've seen it in basketball games where a guy just feels like he can't miss.
		He hits those three-pointers from the outside.
		In pool, I play pool a lot, and there's these moments.
		They're rare and fleeting, but when they come, it's like you can't miss.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know where everything is.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I'd be willing to bet you're in that state some huge percentage of time when you're doing comedy.
		Because once you read about it, there's a whole bunch of confidence that how it affects your inhibitions and your unwillingness to use inhibitions.
		You're probably in that state almost always when you're hitting it in comedy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would think so because when you're doing comedy, I've always described it as you're more like a passenger than you are like the pilot.
		You're just kind of like doing it and sometimes words will come out of your mouth and you're like, I don't even know if I can take credit for those words because I guess it's not...
		I know it's me.
		It's coming out of my mouth.
		I know it's my voice.
		I know technically I created them.
		I wrote them, but it's not really me that's doing it.
		It's like it's just coming out on its own.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And a guy who catches an enormous killer wave will say exactly the same thing.
		And a guy who walks a tightrope over top of Niagara Falls will say the same thing.
		You're going into that state in that time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would imagine.
		And in jujitsu, you see it as well.
		Like when guys are rolling, there's moments where you know there's a certain transition.
		Someone will hit the over-under, the guy will try to escape a flow immediately to an armbar and then immediately to a triangle.
		And it's all happening so fast, it's almost impossible for that person to be thinking.
		They're just reacting and hitting those moves and just completely like in that zone.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		One of the aspects of flow state is that you interpret time differently.
		So you'll hear that from a lot of fighters.
		One of the things I think that helps me analyze stuff is that when I fought, I had success and I had terrible failures.
		Like terrible, embarrassing, changing who you are as a man failures.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How many times did you fight?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Nine.
		Yeah.
		I won four of them.
		I'm going to do one last fight.
		I'm going to end five wins and five losses.
unidentified		How old are you now?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		45. Five wins and five losses, you're sure?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
		I'm sure.
		Hey man, to get to ten, I mean, but I'm telling you, I had the kind of losses that make you question who you are as a man.
		You know what I mean?
		For days or weeks or effect, you're popping to your head.
		Experiencing that, I think that's an analyst's life.
		Like I've had a flow, say my last fight, I went in the second round, I literally completely did whatever I wanted for seven minutes.
		It was perfect.
		Two fights earlier, my brain almost melted down.
		When I look back, I don't know if I lost vision or if I fainted or what.
		Just absolute, utter failure.
		It hurts you because in our genes, when males would fight, if one of them would lose, you'd be kicked out of the group.
		You may never have sex again.
		One loss of a fight with another male Could change your history for the rest of your life.
		That's in our genes only X generations ago.
		And we still feel that.
		But failure is really fucking brutal.
		But it makes you look at these things differently.
		Like now when I look at these elite level fighters who can do that every day, I have such a marvel in what they're capable of.
		And I think that's because I got brutally embarrassed in fight before.
		And you sure don't like that experience, but it changes who you are and hopefully in good ways later on.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well also when you lose and whenever you fail at something and you feel that awful feeling of failure the motivation that comes from that to never feel that again is Almost impossible to recreate without having experienced failure you find it in comedy I experienced it in fighting as well like that those moments where when it's over you just feel like such a hunk of shit that like when you're training from then on and Your intensity is so much higher,
		because the stakes are higher, because you know that a brutal beatdown by somebody is such a horrible proposition, not just in the moment, but after that moment.
		The thinking about the act, the thinking about it, the same as failing.
		like I think failure as a person and especially as a man I think it's a huge part of life I think it's an important part of life and it's the people that stay on the couch and don't risk anything that you're that's trying to stay comfortable is one of the worst decisions you could ever make as a man trying to stay comfortable is a terrible terrible path because you're just gonna stay soft and weak and you're never gonna figure out anything you're never gonna accomplish shit I've got to do some pretty fun things I've I have a really good life.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I like everything that I do.
		And I got a killer wife and I live in Canada and I have fun and stuff.
		And I really think the only two things that I ever had going for me was that I have a crazy good work ethic and I'm not afraid to look like an idiot.
		I don't give a fuck.
		I am not afraid to look like an idiot.
		Failure sucks and it hurts you, but being not afraid to be made fun of or put down or looked at and laughed at and not give a shit about that, you'll try stuff.
		You know, you'll go for things.
		Like, you'll do stuff.
		And, I mean, man, nobody ever had more haters than a guy who wore eye makeup and tried to go into the fight game.
		Like, I mean, fucking everybody hated me.
		Everybody in Canada.
		Like, Anybody in the fight business.
		And here I am fucking six years later.
		All you can do is put your head down and try to do good work.
		You can't do anything else.
		You can't kiss anybody's ass.
		I was talking to Eddie about this too.
		You can't kiss anybody's ass.
		You can't beg your way out of it.
		You can't buy your way out of it.
		If they hate you and they think you're a joke, The only answer is to just try to do great work.
		There's no other cure.
		And that's what I tried to do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think in that sense, sometimes it's good to have haters.
		Because it keeps you motivated.
		It keeps you motivated and it also, it's a balancing act.
		You know, I think the world needs yin and yang.
		The world needs push and pull.
		And I think that having some negativity in your life, it makes the positivity feel so much better.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		No, it makes a lot of sense, man.
		I mean, we were just talking about losing.
		There is that evolutionary reason and that deep in us that, oh my God, I'm going to be pushed out of the group and never have sex again.
		I'm going to wander the earth alone for the rest of my life.
		That's in us.
		But I think also, you know, I forget where I was going with it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's not even stoned, ladies and gentlemen.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		No, I had an edible this morning, actually.
		Uh-oh.
		But...
		Yeah.
		I mean, it's just one of those things.
		It's a miserable, miserable thing.
		But I know where I was going.
		Winning is so good because losing is so terrible.
		I mean, if losing didn't suck, winning would be, oh, cool.
		Let's go try and win again next weekend.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I remember when I was competing the day of the competition, there was always moments where I was like, I got to stop doing this.
		This is just too much stress.
		This just feels terrible.
		And then once I would win, I would go, this is the greatest feeling the world has ever known.
		I feel sorry for people who don't know what this feels like.
		To win a major Taekwondo tournament or something like that, it was just the craziest feeling.
		You just felt like, wow, all that work paid off.
		And that fuels you as a person to accomplish other things.
		It gives you this understanding of focus and of motivation.
		And discipline, and then if you apply all those things to anything, to writing, to whatever you're trying to do, to building a business, to whatever you're trying to do, you can accomplish things that you felt were insurmountable before.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
		I mean, there was...
		The opposite of that, too, is in us, I think we all think if the zombie apocalypse happens tomorrow, I'll be the guy who rolls the car off my wife, picks her up, runs out of here, kills ten zombies on the way, gets on the helicopter, and gets out of there.
		But that's not entirely always true.
		And you need to find that out about yourself.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You need to face the fire to understand what it's like to be under extreme pressure.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And losing makes you say, I'm not necessarily that guy who fucking flips the car, does that, jumps, kills ten zombies.
		But then if you can come back and win, you go, you know what, if I'm at my best, if I'm focused, if I have my shit together, some of the time I can be that guy.
		And I think that's what you kind of hope for.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's also objective analysis of your own shortcomings and your own strengths.
		And that comes in martial arts.
		It's a huge factor in martial arts because especially when you're training.
		When you're in the gym and you're sparring with, you know, if you've got a great gym, like you're training a 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu or something like that, you've got...
		Just a whole room filled with killers.
		And everyone kind of knows the food chain.
		Everyone knows where everybody stands.
		And why does everyone know where everybody stands?
		We know where everybody stands because we're tapping each other out on a regular basis.
		And so, because of that, you're forced to really analyze your game.
		Like, this motherfucker gets me in his guard.
		I'm in trouble.
		Like, I gotta stay out of this guy's guard.
		I know this.
		Why?
		Because I've been caught.
		I understand it.
		Whereas, if you don't have any experience overcoming adversity, like, psh, nobody's catching me.
		And then you get in there with somebody who just ragdolls you.
		And you're like, what the fuck?
		And your ideas of who you are change.
		Because you have this distorted...
		How many guys out there that have never fought have this crazy distorted perception of what they're capable of?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Insane.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Nobody looks at Tiger Woods and goes, on the right day, I'm beating that guy 18 holes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bro, you don't know how I play golf.
unidentified		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If I played golf, I would dominate.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Because I'm taking it to the streets.
		It's going to be fucking street golf.
		Guys really think that, but that's a lack of understanding of what that really is.
		You can kind of see the willingness or the ability to go, there's trouble, I'm going to hit it with this fist.
		That's in every guy.
		So they don't understand that other guys have an understanding of physics, an understanding of where their body works, what happens when you hit somebody in the throat.
		The natural instinct to roll away gives them your back.
		All the most basic, they don't even understand that exists.
		So they have the idea that if I hit that thing with this thing, I might be able to beat it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they think that somehow or another they're tougher.
		Somehow or another they're more alpha.
		Whatever goofy shit they have in their head.
		And it's just a prop.
		It's like a building that they use for a movie, but there's nothing inside the house.
		You have this fake facade, and then behind there, there's no house!
		Where's your fucking house?
unidentified		Whoa!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know and some fucking beast mounts you and starts pounding on you and you give you back and you're like and then after that's over You're so Devastated and defeated and who you your perceptions of who you were were so screwy Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've had guys tell me that they would never lose if they fought Because my mentality they're always like this yo, bro.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't lose my mentality.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That's I've had a dozen Why do they all have Italian accents?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because they're all Italian.
		It's a huge part of my culture.
		The Italians, I don't know what it is about my people, but they're goofy as fuck when it comes to that.
		They have this bizarre belief in their ability to fight.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That's awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's still wrong most of the time.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Even if it's wrong, you see...
		Dudes do terrible things.
		Treat people bad, be assholes.
		If that guy took a beating when he was 15, he'd be a better person.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He would be a way better guy today.
		He would treat people better.
		But, you know, there's not enough of that going on.
		We're really soft.
		Like, our culture is really so...
		Like, by Fight Network, where I work, there's like a metro where you get groceries.
		And we used to walk around this building.
		It takes like four minutes.
		And they built this path on the other side, so it only takes two minutes now.
		It costs like $80,000, $100,000 to strip it out, put this stuff down.
		What the fuck are we doing that for?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're in Canada.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What part of Canada?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Toronto.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It gets cold as fuck in Toronto.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, about two minutes.
		I mean, it's like we're going to literally spend money to make sure that people don't have to go do more effort for two minutes.
		Even escalators.
		Like, why do we make this shit?
		Like, you know what I mean?
		We, in the history of humankind, there has never been a softer culture than North America.
		Canada.
		Never in human history.
		And that's, I think, another reason why fighting is so interesting.
		Because in a world like that, let's go see what happens when we see the opposite of that.
		When we see people who drive it to the hardest level, push it as far as they can humanly go, and go in against another guy.
		You're talking about a guy saying, oh, you know, I'm hard.
		That guy's fucking hard too.
		The guy you're fighting is also mentally unbelievably talented.
		And he's better than you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and he's training every day, and he's objective, and he's got a real balanced sense of who he is.
		He's a real martial artist.
		Yeah, that's a good point, that how soft we are is one of the reasons why it's so exciting to see someone compete in such a dangerous and volatile profession.
		But the critics of MMA would say, well, the reason why we are so quote-unquote soft is that our race, the human race, is evolving.
		And that we are moving towards a state where we no longer require physical conflict.
		I think that martial arts is the key to that gap.
		and this would seem like contradictory to someone who doesn't engage in martial arts, but I think that the realities of the biology, the realities of the body itself and the long history of combat that's ingrained in our genetics, our DNA has this long history of all our DNA has this long history of all these people before us that had to fight to stay alive, whether it's to fight off animals or fight off intruders.
		And all this conflict is almost built into the system.
		And one of the best ways, in my opinion, to ensure peace is to actually exercise out all of that conflict in the gym.
		So that it doesn't exist in society.
		It doesn't exist in the workplace.
		It doesn't exist in friendships.
		And it doesn't exist in the world at large.
		It only exists in dojos.
		It only exists in gyms.
		And some of the nicest, most respectful people I have ever met have been killers, murderers.
		I mean, in the gym, you know, in the cage, in boxing rings, kickboxers.
		The nicest folks.
		Because of the fact that they have no insecurities when it comes to that stuff.
		Their focus when it comes to their martial arts is not about, you know, like...
		It's not about going out and bullying people on the street or going out and picking fights.
		No, their focus is in bettering their skills and in doing so and in training really hard, all your need to prove all that goes away.
		I've seen MMA fighters that people don't know and they get into discussions with people and someone will get douchey with them and they'll smile and laugh like...
		There's a famous story.
		My friend Tate Fletcher fought on the Ultimate Fighter.
		He's a black belt in jiu-jitsu.
		He's a bad motherfucker.
		He's a cool-ass dude, too.
		Super nice.
		If you're a friendly guy, Tate's going to be your best friend.
		He's just the nicest guy ever.
		But we were in the Hard Rock Hotel, and there was this big fucking kid, man.
		He was like 6'6", maybe.
		At least 6'4", 6'5".
		And Tate's like 6'4".
		So this guy was bigger than Tate.
		And probably like a big...
		He's probably college age, 23, 24, and he was just being a fucking drunk asshole to everybody and just walking around with his shirt off, this big giant kid, and he got to Tate's door and he said to Tate, like, hey man, that's my fucking room.
		And Tate's like, no, I'm pretty sure it's my room.
		He's like, I got my key right here, and I'm going to use the key.
		And Tate goes, take it easy.
		And Tate opens his door and goes inside.
		And I had the room next to Tate, so I go inside my room.
		And I hear bang, bang, bang.
		I hear banging on Tate's door.
		And we had our doors open.
		Yeah, joining.
		Yeah, the joining rooms.
		And I stepped through Tate's door.
		What the fuck's going on?
		Is that that same guy?
		And so Tate opens the guy.
		He goes, don't you shut the door on me, bitch.
		It was like some crazy...
		Crazy moment where this guy was not just picking a fight, but going after Tate once he went into the room.
		They go out into the hallway.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's weird that people do that at all.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just a big bully.
		Just a big bully who used to being a big bully.
		Tate goes, what do you want to do, man?
		What do you want to do?
		He goes, I'm going to kick your fucking ass.
		Tate goes, why don't you come over here and swing on me, man?
		Come on.
		Come on.
		So Tate is standing in front of the dude, and the dude is like, oh shit, this is really happening.
		And then Tate throws an inside leg kick, and then pulls guard.
		Grabs the guy, pulls guard.
		Before the guy even knows it, Tate hooks an omoplata...
		He's on the side of the guy, and then security shows up.
		So he's got this guy in an omoplata.
		He's got his arm under his neck in an omoplata, and security shows up.
		And they go, stop, stop, stop!
		So I go, don't worry about it, man.
		I go, it's fine.
		He's just going to put him to sleep.
		It's okay.
		And the security guy goes...
		Hey, you're that guy from Fear Factor.
		And in that moment, in that moment where the security guys are completely going, holy shit, what are you doing here, man?
		I go, this drunk guy's picking on my friend.
		And when I said, like, don't worry, he's just going to put him to sleep, Tate said, and in his head he was like, alright, I guess I'm going to put him to sleep now.
		He wasn't going to hit the guy.
		He just decided, like, look, if I hit this guy, then it becomes this crazy assault, and there's marks on him.
		So Tate just chokes, puts a rear naked choke on him, and sleeps him right there in the hallway.
		His friends pick the guy up, and it's like a scene in a goddamn movie.
		His friends pick the guy up, they put him in the elevator, the elevator door closes, and the guy vanishes.
		And he disappears from life.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And that's the end.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And it just laughs all night of us.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For years, we still bring this up.
unidentified		That shit happened in like 2003. We still bring this up because it was so ridiculous.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You've seen Ryan, what's his name, that jiu-jitsu guy in a bar and he takes the guy down and mounts him?
unidentified		Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ryan Hall.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was like a restaurant or something, right?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Calm as all hell.
		Don't worry about it, don't worry about it.
		Gets him down, mounts him, waits until he's exhausted.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's used to doing that all the time.
		That's the thing about training is you're used to struggling essentially for your life.
		What is a tap?
		Tap is a way that you can train where it's safe and someone taps.
		And what that means is you got me.
		But what does got me mean?
		It means you're Dead.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I would have died.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Or my arm would have broken in half and then you'd have killed me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Then you kill them.
		It's essentially you're playing a game called I kill you with my body.
		Or you kill me.
		Or we kill each other several times over the course of a seven minute rolling session.
		And then we shake hands, thanks man, that was great.
		And then you move on to the next guy who's going to kill you.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And be a better person out into the world.
		And walk out into the world and be a better person.
		I agree 100%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It exercises that stuff out of your system.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And that's the frustrating thing when all of a sudden, you know, I come to town and my wife's here and her friends are like, what's the deal with this war machine and Christy Mack?
		They don't know about any of this stuff.
		They don't know about any of the good things about martial arts.
		They don't know about any of the good things it does and makes people a better person.
		They just come in and they're like, hey, some MMA fighter beat up a porn star.
		Like, you know what I mean?
		They don't know.
		Like, they don't know that there's that side to it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a fucked up story.
		I don't, you know, I don't know what exactly went down.
		People keep asking me to comment on it.
		This is the only thing I would ever say.
		Anytime, you know, there's an altercation like that between a man and a woman and a man hits a woman, it's It's never correct.
		It's always evil.
		It's always wrong.
		It's beyond fucked that a guy could beat a woman.
		It's beyond fucked.
		And it should be a heinous crime that's punishable in the worst ways possible.
		But I don't know what happened.
		All I know is it appears, according to her story, that he beat the shit out of her.
		That's what it looks like.
		There's no evidence to the contrary.
		And that's awful.
		So that's all I could say.
		I mean, I'm not commenting on it until...
		I mean, really commenting on it until I know more of what exactly happened.
		I don't know what the fuck went down, but...
		I don't know how a guy could do that.
		I literally do not know how a man, especially a martial artist.
		He always likes to think of himself as not a martial artist.
		He's a fighter.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that's probably true.
		He's an animal.
		And there are those guys.
		Typically in the gym, you don't get guys get that good that are animals like that.
		They don't have enough.
		They have too much ego to go, I'm not good at this, so I have to train that to get better.
		So these guys come into a big gym, and they're new, and they're tough guys.
		They're gone in a year.
		They won't have the absence of ego enough to train things they're not good at and then they end up leaving.
		So it's rare that somebody has to be very driven of like an animal style fighter type to get past that, to get to that level or just be genetically really superior or whatever.
		It's rare that that style of person becomes a high-level MMA fighter.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is rare because if you're that fucked in the head, usually you're not strong enough mentally to keep going and to get to that.
		War Machine's a high-level MMA fighter.
		It's just so disappointing.
		I had him in the podcast six months ago, maybe, something like that.
		It's unbelievably sad.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But like you said, we don't really know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And his life's over.
		His fucking life is over.
		I mean, I don't know what he's going to do, because he's been in jail twice now, and this is the third one, and a girl, a pretty little girl like that, she's tiny, man.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		She's 100 pounds.
		Yeah, and you don't like to speculate on how this will land.
		That's a change of subject.
		It is disturbing.
		It's a weird one, too, you know, not just this topic, but...
		It's strange.
		I like to analyze fighting.
		I don't really like to be an MMA journalist because a lot of that time you're not talking about fighting.
		Guys are talking about this guy said that thing or this sold that many things or why is this guy not a star?
		I don't care really about that shit so much.
		To me, I'm just so unbelievably curious as to what is going to happen when Demetrius Johnson fights this guy.
		And then after he fights that guy, sitting there and trying to figure out what the thing was that made that one moment like that.
		Do you know Jaron Vallel?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Jaron Vallel was reffing that match.
		We talk about bad refs, we talk about bad judges.
		Jaren's cool, and I ran into him in Winnipeg.
		Actually, Joe Dirksen was at this party, and you were talking about guys that kind of are cool.
		Dirksen works now in a prison, and he said guys will be like, I think I could beat you, and he'll be like, yeah, you probably could.
		Joe doesn't give a shit.
		But Jaren Villal's there, and he was saying, oh, I really liked your Demetrius Johnson break.
		I'm like, thanks, man.
		Whenever anybody likes those, it means a lot to me because I love doing them, right?
		And so we're talking about it.
		He goes, well, you know, tell me what else you saw.
		And I'm having a beer and whatever.
		And I said, why?
		And he goes, well, I was reffing that one, so I looked at a lot of tape, too.
		And I'm like, really?
		That's cool, man.
		He goes, yeah, me and Big John, him and John are very good friends.
		They'll go on Skype and look at tape together.
		So I'm like, wow, that's fucking cool that you do that.
		And he goes, yeah, I saw a couple things.
		You know one thing, he didn't say you missed, but he suggested, and it was fucking brilliant.
		Like this referee that was reffing the main event picked up on this one that basically when the two guys, when Demetrius Johnson ends up kind of in that center zone, not quite in the clinch and not quite at, you know, in the pocket, kind of in that middle zone, he'll give you a little shove.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		To put you in a position.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Well, he is looking for one of your only two logical responses.
		You're going to back up, and he backs all the way out, or you're going to push against his, and he goes to the clinch.
		So he goes in as a little sample test, and he does it all after Jaron pointed it out.
		I'm like, holy fuck.
		I looked at his fights.
		He always does that.
		And for a referee to go and spend that much time and find that little moment because...
		And I said, why'd you do that?
		He goes, well...
		I just wanted to be in the right moment and right places and be aware of what was going on.
		I'm like, that's a fucking good referee.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a great referee.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That's what we need.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is what we need.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's an actual example in Demetrius Johnson of a guy who's trained by one of the best in the world in Matt Hume.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I did a breakdown of Matt Hume's first fight in Pancreas.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		I'm a big Matt Hume fan.
		I really like him in the corner, too.
		He's great at giving technical instructions in between rounds.
		I think there's a few guys that are just really good trainers, and you just see it in the examples.
		Dwayne Ludwig, I think, right now is the best.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't think there's a better striking coach on earth.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Duke is right up there with him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right up there with him.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Duke and Henry Hooft are in this world of perfection and Bang Ludwig is pushing the boundaries a little.
		He's trying to test.
		He's taking new things.
		Even just the simplest shit that he was showing me after or before TJ's fight.
		I think it was before.
		And he was showing me the elements of when guys will go to enter.
		And you know how I'll use punches to get you to think up and down and you start responding up and down.
		He makes you believe that he is playing with your up and down and while your brain is focusing in on that, he camouflages his footwork in.
		So some of the punches are bullshit to make you think about them while he steps off in a different place.
		Shit like that.
		And he's...
		Oh, man.
		And he is operating like...
		He's got 700 cups of coffee in him.
		He's yelling and he's thinking fast.
		And you can see...
		Talk about flow.
		When he's teaching, this guy's in a different place.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he really is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dwayne Ludwig chugs alpha brain.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He eats that shit like candy.
		He eats it all day long.
		He's obsessed with analyzing fights and training fighters.
		It's such a huge part of his daily thought process.
		It's engrossing.
		It's his whole being.
		And that's why he's so goddamn good.
		I sat down with him at lunch the day TJ fought Burrell.
		And when TJ Dillashaw beat Hennenborough, who at the time was thought of as the best pound-for-pound fighter or one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in the world, TJ was a big underdog, and TJ went into that fight and dominated Hennenborough, knocked him out in the fifth round after dropping him in the first, dominating him for five rounds, and then stopped him.
		But what was crazy was when I had lunch with Dwayne, Dwayne told me exactly what the plan was.
		And then he went out and did it exactly that way.
		A lot of switching stances.
		A lot of capitalizing on Burrell loading up and standing flat-footed.
		A lot of stepping to the outside and immediately countering.
		And he did it over and over and over again.
		And TJ's a sponge, man.
		I had a chance to watch those two work out together.
		And TJ is just a sponge.
		He's a sponge.
		Everything Dwayne teaches him.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes it's like you got the brilliant teacher and the brilliant fighter and then the two together make an even bigger thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And there's no conflict between those guys.
		They're really good friends and TJ's a completely open book.
		His cup is empty and Dwayne is completely ego free when it comes to teaching him.
		He's all about getting TJ better.
		TJ's all about getting better and they're great friends.
		These guys love each other.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So they're always laughing and joking and palling around together.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like when TJ beat Hennenborough and there was this moment after the fight where they hugged and they're both crying.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It was real.
unidentified		Woo!
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, fucking real, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was tearing up when I was watching it, Cage Side.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was crazy.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Amazing.
		Yeah, it was incredible.
		It really was.
		And Demetrius and Matt Hume, similar thing.
		I looked back, it was 1994. It was like four months after UFC won.
		And I went back and re-analyzed.
		Because up at Fight Network, we're calling classic pancreas.
		So we got all the old pancreas.
		And we're commentating them through the lens of today.
		So we're going, you know, this guy does this.
		Wow, you know, in 2014, that couldn't happen because of this, this, and this.
		So we're looking at him historically in the context of today.
		It's super cool, man.
		It's the funnest thing.
		Like, guys, don't.
		There's no such thing as, like, if a guy wants to pass your guard, he just passes it.
		Like, in the 90s, everyone's good at footlocks for some reason.
		People change positions.
		You get a mount, and you'll, like, swing your leg over the top to go back to side.
		So I'm in the mount, my leg over to end up in side.
		You'll be in 8, 10 different positions.
		Always kind of, they were chaining together submission attempts and positions to try to make you keep guessing.
		But it didn't, like, it had overstayed its welcome.
		You're looking at it and going, this doesn't work, but they're still doing it.
		You know, it's fascinating.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dogshit jiu-jitsu is what it is.
		I watched Coliseum 2000 with Hicks and Gracie over his house way back in, I gotta say, it was probably like 2004 or 2005 or something like that.
		It was back when Hickson was still thinking about fighting.
		And it was a few years after he had fought Funaki and Coliseum.
		And we were watching fights together.
		We watched the entire event.
		And Hickson would break down the movements.
		And he's like, look at all this space!
		Oh, you can't have this space!
		You know, like, space to him is just evil.
		Like, what is this?
		You know, because Hickson's jiu-jitsu has always been the elite of the elite.
		So when he watches, like, these errors and these things, like, big, goofy movements, you know, with big openings, it would just drive him crazy.
		Like, he would just be talking about all these errors and what's wrong with this and so focused on it.
		And if you watch...
		Jiu-Jitsu or you watch MMA from 93 and then watch, say, Demetrius Johnson in 2014. You're like, boy, this is like, no sport has evolved this quickly.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Never.
		And those two examples, when I looked at Matt Hume, he was better than everybody.
		Him and Evan Tanner were better than everybody.
		Just because they were fighting like today.
		And you look back, Matt Hume was doing this kind of leg ride and side ride like wrestling position that Chris Weidman was teaching at a seminar I was at like two years ago.
unidentified		He was doing it in 1994. He had good Muay Thai too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Matt Hume had very good Muay Thai.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Fantastic, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Remember he fought Pat Miletic and broke his nose and they stopped the fight.
		That was crazy.
		They stopped the fight for a broken nose.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I remember thinking, what kind of goofy shit is that?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You look back at these Pancrase ones too and it's like there were rope escapes.
		Yeah, that's right.
		You've got it.
		Instead of tapping, I grabbed the rope.
		And then we're stood up.
		And it's like, if it is not finished, you win, because I grabbed the rope once.
		But we tried to figure that out.
		I was going to talk to Dave Meltzer, who I don't really know good, but we've chatted online and stuff, because he understands that history moment.
		Because there's also a lot of works back then.
		Legitimately.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When you say works, for folks who don't know what we're talking about, we mean fixed fights.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of that has a history because of pro wrestling.
		Pro wrestling in Japan was huge, and that's also where the rope escape came from.
		That was always a big thing in pro wrestling.
		A guy would have a hold on a guy, the guy would grab the rope, and the referee would make them break.
		It was a way to keep pro wrestling interesting.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Well, when we look back at it, we suddenly, Ram Dean and I are calling these, and we look at each other.
		Fuck, that's fake.
		And the first time that happened, we were like, well, like, I mean, we have to address that.
		Like, your credibility demands that you don't go, oh, and he powerbombed him.
		I mean, you can't do that.
		And you're talking about history.
		We're trying to make this series a history lesson as well, right?
		So you have to talk about it.
		The reason it looks the way it looks, you nailed it.
		It's like basically wrestling was fake.
		Once upon a time wrestling was real.
		Guys went to towns and they wrestled each other and the winner was the winner who could wrestle.
		But guys got so good and it got so boring that they had to fix them and became pro-wrestling.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that why they did it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it because guys got so good or is it just because people wanted to control the outcomes?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I think a bit of both.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I bet it was more gambling than anything.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Maybe so.
		Maybe so, yeah.
		And then pro wrestling over there, these two guys, Funaki and Suzuki, went and said, we're going to take pro wrestling, which we love and everyone loves, and we're going to make it real.
		And so when they made it real, that was pancreas.
		So suddenly it's like wrestling was real, then it was fake, and now we're going to make it real again.
		So there were things like rope escapes left in there as you transferred from fake to real again.
		They stayed there for a bit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's interesting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's really interesting.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And they were so obsessed with the storylines because they were originally wrestling performers that most of the works involved them and involved them losing.
		So in its own way, it was only there to create entertainment.
		But it's a weird time in there.
		Like for purists, and I fucking love the sport, you have to make sense of why that was for people so that they're not just...
		It doesn't color MMA in a way.
		But it was that moment where MMA and wrestling sort of touched each other in the early 90s.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is an interesting thing, man.
		It's also an interesting thing that...
		We were saying this, that I don't think there's ever been a sport that has changed so much and grown so much in just a period of 20 years.
		If you go to UFC 1 and then go to...
		I don't know what number we got now.
		180, 78, 78, 77. If you go and just go to...
		From 1993 to 2014, it's gone through like a thousand years of evolution.
		The level is so different.
		The level of athleticism, the level of endurance, the martial arts skill, everything's different.
		Everything's different.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I think it's one of the things I love about it the most.
		People will talk, Jon Jones and Cormier are having all this heat.
		And they ask me about it.
		It's like, I don't care.
		It's interesting.
		But for me, the biggest thing about one of the – I always say the biggest thing because I also love the science.
		I also love the brain chemistry.
		I love the beauty of the dance, all of it.
		But one of the things I'm most interested in is it's basically one global science experiment in real time using thousands and thousands and thousands of fights.
		to distill down to the nugget of what's the best and it still is that every 500 fights the best coaches are going okay well that doesn't work anymore well we've added that that works and it's this ongoing distillation down to the purest way to beat other guys that changes slightly now Because of this sort of demand for entertainment from the audience and stuff that changes.
		Like, you know, guys are rewarded more for standing now than certain things.
		So that alters it.
		But you take that out of it, and basically we just have thousands and thousands of contests all there to help us determine the research of how to be the best fighter ever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have issue with that aspect of it, where the technical aspect of fights changes for it to be more entertaining.
		I think it's not good.
		I think it's not smart and I think it takes away from the purity of mixed martial arts expression.
		Like, what is martial arts?
		It's all about doing the very best thing in order to win a fight.
		And if you put yourself more in danger so that the crowd roars and, you know, like, just drop your hands, duke it out.
		I remember a guy who's a friend of mine wrote something on Twitter and he wrote, you know, fuck technical striking, you know, just stand in the center of the cage and let it bang.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And meanwhile, the guy who wrote that is all fucked up now.
		He's got all sorts of physical problems.
		He's had a bunch of fights.
		He's all banged up.
		It's like, no, don't think that.
		Don't say that.
		That is like, fuck thinking.
		I'm just going to hit this with a hammer.
		No, no.
		You have to think.
		That's the whole thing.
		The whole thing is solving the puzzle.
		And solving the puzzle in striking is about technical striking.
		It doesn't mean no knockouts.
		There's a lot of knockouts that come from tactical strikers.
		It means doing it the right way, where you have the most amount of success, the least amount of risk, and you're doing things based on the amount of knowledge that's been accumulated over thousands of years of martial arts.
		You're applying that in an intelligent way.
		Johnson, Demetrius Johnson, in my opinion, is the best example of that.
		That fucking guy does everything right.
		Everything he does is perfect.
		He doesn't rush anything.
		You never see him slugging it out and fucking dropping his hands and like, come on, bitch, come on, bitch.
		There's none of that stupidity.
		It's all brilliant martial arts, and he's so exciting to watch.
		Sometimes people say it's not as exciting because he's not finishing guys as much, but He fucking finished John Moraga in the fourth round of a fight that he was dominating.
		He finished Joseph Benavidez with one punch.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He's the second best guy in the world at his weight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		He's a beast.
		And Bogotinov, the only reason why he didn't finish him is because he's EPO'd to the fucking gills and who knows what else.
unidentified		He didn't fatigue.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he didn't fatigue.
		Fatigue is such a part of it.
		It's such an enormous part of it.
		If you are...
		If everything else is equal, but you're in better shape than the guy, eventually it's no longer equal.
		It's really that simple.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the Nick Diaz strategy.
		Nick Diaz strategy.
		Nick is obviously a very high-level martial artist when it comes to his technique and his experience, and he's obviously a very, very tough guy, but he's also in fucking phenomenal shape.
		Nick Diaz has swam back from Alcatraz twice in the fucking Pacific Ocean outside San Francisco filled with sharks.
		He swam back twice.
		He's done triathlons.
		He's done marathons.
		I mean, he's a fucking beast when it comes to his physical conditioning.
		And what he does is just puts up pace.
		He just makes you run with him.
		Like, come on, let's go.
		We're going running.
		We're going running.
		And he starts throwing these punches that are like 50% speed.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Hey, come and catch me.
		He'll even mentally get you pulled in there.
		He's good at that, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Come on, bitch.
unidentified		Come on, bitch.
unidentified		Exactly.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That gets you riled?
		Oh, it's brilliant.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You know Jack Slack?
unidentified		Sure, yeah, yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, that guy is doing killer stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Excellent stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, great breakdowns.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		There's a little group of people out there.
		It's a niche in a niche, and I'm proud to be part of it.
		I stand there and do mine, but Jack is fucking good.
		And there's this young guy, Lawrence Kenshin, is really good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was going to mention him.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he's excellent.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He does great breakdowns.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And I'm so happy that there's these guys doing it.
		And instead of going, who's that fucking guy?
		I'm better than him.
		Good for you.
		We end up kind of, we're friends and we're kind of like pushing each other.
		It's really cool.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's an interesting thing about MMA commentary that's like that as well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, I'm really good friends with Michael Schiavello, really good friends with Jimmy Smith.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I worked with Mike.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Twice.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Good friends with Jason Chambers as well.
		He's a great buddy.
		And because I'm friends with all these guys that also do my job, there's no competition amongst each other.
		I tried to get Jimmy Smith hired by the UFC. When Jimmy Smith's contract was going up with Bellator, I called Dana White and I said, Dude, this guy's the best.
		He's great.
		He's a real martial artist.
		He's a real good guy.
		I go, He should work for us.
		He's fucking great.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But Bellator must have understood he was so valuable.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, they were worried.
		Also, they would worry that who the fuck else is out there?
		I mean, it's a really tough gig to have a person who's very passionate and very articulate, which Jimmy is both, and is really good at breaking down scenarios and situations and is legitimately passionate while the fight's going on, like you could see it.
		And also, not afraid to call out bad refereeing, bad calls, bad judgments.
		It's very important to him to be honest about the whole scene.
		There's not that many guys out there.
		So if Bellator did lose Jimmy, who the fuck else?
		Who do they get?
		He does all their fights.
		Yeah, they probably would call you.
		And you would do a great job, I'm sure.
		Brian Stan does a great job.
		Kenny Florian, of course, does a great job.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		The guy, he's always been one of my favorites because he's a regular guy who just figured out how to get the answers to the shit he needed to get to.
		You know what I mean?
		He wasn't some big, powerful genetic specimen.
		He was kind of a nerd who was like, if I can just figure out how to do this, okay, that worked, but this didn't.
		And over time, he analyzes the same way.
		But where I was going with Jack, talking about Jack, is he did this.
		I'm sure it's him.
		I'm remembering this amazing breakdown on Nick Diaz.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And I'm pretty sure it was Jack.
		If it isn't, if it was a different guy, I apologize.
		But it's looking at Nick Diaz's striking compared to old-school bare-knuckle boxers.
		You know, the guys with the mustaches fighting like this?
		And it looks at it, and there's so many comparisons.
		Weight on the front leg, catching punches with the top of his head.
		It's so brilliant.
		It must be Jack, because Jack's the best guy out there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's done a bunch of great stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He even wrote a whole piece on George St. Pierre versus Nick Diaz.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		In advance of it or after?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I believe it was in advance.
		And he wrote a breakdown afterwards.
		He writes a bunch of those things, man.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Part of the reason he's so good is he's working so much.
		He's in that zone.
		But nobody knows who he really is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Does anybody know what he looks like?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		No.
		And he doesn't want that, and I think that's super cool.
		I think he's British.
		I'm pretty sure he's British.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I believe he is too.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But it's cool, man.
		It's a little niche, but people are finding it interesting.
		I always feel like, you know, you look at other sports, and on Monday, the ESPN will have a two-hour show.
		And they will go into what happened.
		And it won't be like, well, this guy threw a thing and the highlight will only be the catch.
		They'll show what happened at the line.
		They'll show, they'll talk about what kind of plays these guys called and stuff.
		That kind of analysis.
		Like, all you guys do a fucking killer job.
		But the before and the after and stuff, that's an area I always wish the UFC concentrated on more, especially during the really passion years.
		The heavy work has always been on the hype and the excitement and this guy hates and these two are the best and stuff.
		But during that era, you feel like if you got 20% or 30% or 40% of the audience to be obsessed with the technique.
		And I think a lot of times people went and showed how to do a triangle, not how to watch a triangle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
		I see what you're saying.
		But it feels like in a lot of other sports, they have spent time to develop a certain percentage of the audience that is there because baseball does some crazy shit.
		I don't know what happens in baseball, but there are guys that talk about how the field moves and what guys do when they're like with rosin and shit.
		And in football, they talk about how the plays are called, what the subtleties are.
		And you don't see that before and after in the UFC.
		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And yeah, I agree with you.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It would be nice to see that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're doing a lot of that, though, on the breakdowns that they do on Fox, on Fox Sports.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, like Carlos Condit does a fantastic job of that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen his.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm sorry.
		Did I say Carlos Condit?
		I didn't mean Carlos Condit.
		Who the fuck?
		Who does that?
		Dominic Cruz.
		Dominic Cruz does a great job of it.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about Demetrius Johnson.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Dominic Cruz, if he can come back the way that he was, he's one of those super brilliant, mind-blowing performers, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, he's great as far as movement and footwork, and his conditioning is always top-notch, too.
		Dominic is just so good at, like, not being there.
		Like, you swing for him, and he's off to the left, and then he's countering you off to the right, and you're like, fuck him, where is this guy?
		But he does a great job.
		Like, he did a great breakdown of Kung Lee versus Rich Franklin.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, with the right hook, I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right hook.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Drew out the right hook.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he did a great job of explaining, like...
		When someone is head straight up in the air and they don't move off the center line, that shit drives me crazy.
		I watched it and I was like, fucking who's training you?
		What's going on here?
		And then you watch a guy like TJ Dillashaw so satisfying because he does all the right things, because he's constantly moving off the center line, because he's completely unpredictable.
		Like when Dominic did a great, he did a great breakdown of what Franklin did wrong and where the errors were.
		And he's done that for a bunch of different fights.
		So Dominic is really good at that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's fucking talented.
		When we're talking about Dwayne Ludwig, when he's teaching, he'll say, you make no errors unless you're making them on purpose.
		And what he means by that is if you, obviously, you show, well, this is here, the guy will throw a punch.
		We want him to do that and we'll respond.
		And there's a really wild, heavy case of it where you see...
		I broke it down and if you even just look at the fight itself, you see it as soon as somebody mentions it, was Jacare versus Okami.
		So Jacare, the whole fight...
		All he's got in mind is the overhand right.
		And the way for him to draw that out is, you know, how everybody, you know, when they talk about where the front foot goes, you know, against the southpaw, he's got his front foot intentionally inside, and he's offering a straight line to his chin for the straight left.
		And Okami, you can see him seeing it and going, no, shit, he wants me to throw that.
		Oh, shit, he's doing, he's ready to counter it.
		And the hesitation on Okami is like, it's such a fascinating moment as a guy's going...
		Look, I'm out here.
		You can hit me with it.
		And he's going, oh, he's telling me I can hit him with it, but he's got that right hand ready.
		And just those moments to me are the fascinating shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's also even more fascinating when it comes to a guy like Jacare is because if you do engage, the real fear is that he's going to take you down.
		So, there's always this thing, when you're striking with a guy who's such an elite grappler, it's like, this guy's trying to goad me into a slugfest, but I know that he's going to change levels and take me down at any moment, so you're always hesitant to really commit to shots and extend yourself, because if you extend yourself, it makes it much more difficult to defend and take down.
		A guy like Okami is also, or a guy like Jacare rather, is also fascinating because he started out his career as one of the elite of the elite in grappling and really had bad striking in the beginning.
		When he got knocked out by Makako, his striking was just very rudimentary, which wasn't very good, but now he's destroying guys with striking.
		Like, he beat the fucking shit out of Yushin Okami with striking.
		And, like, that's terrifying to people because now you take this guy who is this just phenomenal top 1% of all grapplers ever.
		I mean, I think Jacare, like, out of elite jiu-jitsu guys, he's, like, top 1% ever.
andy stumpf ▲ ● ▼		And now, destroying people with stand-up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's, like, the focus that made him a great jiu-jitsu fighter and the athleticism is now making him an elite striker.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's terrifying.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		What is always kind of an additional terrifying is that you don't see him for like a year.
		When a guy's not around for a year, you're like, what the fuck is he doing?
		Like, what does he have now?
		What new things does he have?
		What does he do better?
		What's way faster than it was a year ago?
		That always scares the shit out of me.
		It excites you when there's a fight coming, but you're like, shit, man, what has this guy been doing in the lab for the last year?
		Maybe he's got some crazy shit we don't even know about.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, he's definitely getting better.
		He's not slacking off, I guarantee you that.
		But did you see when he got elbow surgery and they cleaned out his elbow?
		Did you see that?
		Oh, pull that up, Jamie.
		Jacare elbow surgery pictures.
		He had, before he fought Francis Carmont, he had, like, really bad, like...
		Bone spurs and chips and shit inside of his elbow.
		It was like, you know, all the years of elbowing people and also of getting armbarred, like, things break off inside your elbow and it becomes, like, crunchy and you're moving it around.
		It's just all inflammation and tissue damage.
		And look, we'll show it to you up on the big screen, but it's really fucking crazy.
		Like, there's a cup of all the things that they remove from his elbow.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He's got teeth in his elbow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It looks like teeth.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's disgusting!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Chunks of bone and cartilage.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And all ripping apart all the stuff around it all the time.
		You know, people don't...
		You know, how could they?
		But nobody really sees a guy who's a black belt level guy who's been training you and Eddie and...
		Black belt level guys train all their life.
		They have no idea what that does to their joints and their bodies.
		Jiu Jitsu is a fucking vicious sport.
		It's a hard, vicious sport.
		Kickboxers will look over at the Jiu Jitsu area and they see the guys stretching and stuff and they go, look at these guys.
		They don't want no part of that.
		They don't want to go in there and have their skeleton all stacked by a guy.
		It's a vicious sport.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a sport that I'm realizing.
		Like, one of the things that I did, I made some mistakes with my jiu-jitsu training.
		And one of the mistakes that I made was for a long time, I didn't do any strength and conditioning equipment.
		The strength and conditioning training, I did mostly just jiu-jitsu.
		Like, for years and years, I would lift weights like maybe once a week or something like that.
		I'd get a little lift in just to kind of maintain my strength and size.
		But I didn't specifically like strengthen my core strengthen my spine strengthen certain areas and stretch Constantly stretch like you got to put as much time almost into that as you do in your jiu-jitsu training just to armor up your body just just to arm up your joints not So that you can overpower guys and like not concentrate on technique Which a lot of people do have a problem with like really strong like football players Big guys tend to try to muscle things.
		The really technical guys are always the really small guys because they don't have the muscle-up option.
		So their option is only to use the proper technique and leverage.
		But strengthening your body is important just to prevent injuries.
		Strengthening your hamstrings to prevent knee injuries.
		Strengthening your quads to prevent knee injuries.
		Strengthening your neck.
		Strengthening your back.
		Strengthening lower back.
		Stretching.
		A lot of guys slack off on that shit.
		And I did too.
		And I got some...
		Some pretty serious back injuries because of that.
		Because I wasn't strengthening those areas.
		For the longest time, I very rarely worked my back.
		I didn't do rows or any exercises specifically.
		So having an issue with discs and stuff like that forced me to really concentrate on that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's nasty stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And then, you know, guys get back injuries.
		Doctors give them, like, opiates and stuff.
		That shit can wreck their lives.
unidentified		Oh, for sure.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Like, a bad back injury leads to something like that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And next thing you know, you're...
unidentified		You're a junkie.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're fellating dudes for money for heroin.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hey, how'd you get there?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It was a bit of a leap, I recognize.
unidentified		But...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is your martial arts background?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When did you start doing martial arts?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I started about nine, Taekwondo.
		I have a black belt in Taekwondo.
		I trained through high school.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All in Canada?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All in Toronto?
unidentified		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		K.S. Cho College.
		I grew up in Manitoba.
		You know what?
		My parents are the coolest people ever on earth.
		I was just like a weird kid and I really liked Bruce Lee and stuff.
		I was really interested in martial arts and I was pretty hyper and odd and didn't have a lot of focus.
		Once they said, if you're serious about this, we'll do it.
		They would drive me an hour and a half each direction to Winnipeg to go train three times a week for my whole, as a kid, teenager.
unidentified		That's amazing.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It was amazing.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You've got great parents, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Holy shit.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It changed my whole life.
		I competed.
		I did really well and stuff.
		I enjoyed it.
		I had interest in every martial art, so I did a little Sikaran, which is like a Filipino martial art.
unidentified		What's it called?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Sikaran.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How do you spell that?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's S-I-K-A-R-A-N. It's like Kali?
		No, Arnis and Kali are an offshoot of Sikaran.
		It's a Filipino martial art, and it's very much like Taekwondo, but when they compete, they stick their hands in their belt, and it's all spin kicks and hook kicks and shit.
		It's super cool.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They put their hands in their belt.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		They compete like wide stance with their head far back, lots of hook kicks off the front, and no hands.
		It's a kicking.
		It's like savant almost.
unidentified		Wow.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But savant does have hands now.
		It's modified to have hands over time.
		So I did a lot of that.
		No blocking either?
		No.
		All moving your head and your body.
		It was just a very Winnipeg thing.
		This one central area of Canada This Filipino master of it came there and he started a school.
		He was a really good businessman.
		So it ended up being in the whole world, if you looked at where Sikaran was taught, the Philippines, and there was a chunk, a little red dot in the middle of Canada because this guy was there and he had a bunch of schools and people studied, and a lot of Filipino population.
		So I did a little of that.
		Wow, that's crazy.
		Sikaran's really cool.
		Check it out.
		I don't know how much there'll be of modern stuff on the internet, but it's basically a ton of round kicks, hook kicks, and spin kicks with your weight heavy on the back leg.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So it's sort of like kicking, like a martial arts version of soccer.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like you can't use your hands at all.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Like fencing with your feet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean like you can't even like block.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's so ridiculous.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's really weird.
		I mean, but is boxing ridiculous?
		You can only punch.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but at least you can block.
unidentified		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Actually, you would see a lot of.
		I always found it interesting, even just as a kid, I was curious.
		Guys would be doing, you'd go to the tournaments and guys are all doing hook kicks and then shift forward and spin kick.
		All of a sudden, guys started doing this from there where they would just bounce on their back leg hooking and round kicking.
		So they'd bounce towards each other doing that, so they were tapping.
		It's just an interesting thing as a teenager to see.
		And then I started playing in a rock band in my 20s, so I didn't do much martial arts at all out Did you practice music before that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When did you get involved in music?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Growing up as a kid, Bruce Lee and Alice Cooper were like my two hands.
unidentified		Ah, okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So that's where the glam rock came from, the makeup and...
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And late mid-twenties, I started playing in a band and I really liked performing.
		And I did a lot of jumping and kicking and wearing tight pants.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like David Lee Roth style.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Somewhere between David Lee Roth and the New York Dolls.
unidentified		Oh, wow.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And very drunk, very fucked up through the whole era.
		We would go and we...
		Oh, man.
		And I told Eddie this story.
		I haven't told a lot of people this story, but people asked me about it.
		My friends asked me about it recently.
		But I was basically on tour, so I could do that for like 10, 12, 14 years.
		Yeah.
		We're touring England and the UK and Italy and a few places like that.
		We did really well over there and I had a seizure from just doing so much drugs and drinking so much.
		When I came back, the doctor said the vodka and Red Bull was actually the biggest The fact that I took a lot of speed over the three days without sleeping let me drink more vodka and red ball but basically as the sugar leaves your body it goes down and you get sick and when the alcohol then leaves your body it draws more sugar out and you have a hypoglycemic seizure.
		So I'm laying on the couch I felt terrible for like 10 hours and then all of a sudden apparently I just yelled something and people came over and I felt this electricity shoot down my arms into my hands and they just locked up and I rolled back down my eyes rolled in my head I thought it was 10 seconds later and everyone was looking at me like I just got knocked out.
		And then apparently it was like a minute or something.
		And I went back and the doctor said, dude, you've got to get your life together.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And then I started training martial arts again pretty much that day.
		And then I trained three times a week, then five, then seven.
		Then I was doing jiu-jitsu Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 7 a.m., noon and 6 p.m.
		And Tuesday and Thursday, noon and 6 p.m.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You were training jiu-jitsu three times a day?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Three times a day, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, twice a day, Tuesday, Thursday, for about six months.
		And then people kind of knew me a little in Canada, like on television doing stuff.
		I was like a reality show judge.
		And the network said, oh, you're going to fight?
		Well, why don't we do a TV show about that?
		And that kind of allowed me...
		I really wanted to be in the fight world.
		That's what I loved.
		The second I kind of had, you know, been not living a crazy lifestyle, all I wanted to do was martial arts.
		And then really from that minute on, that's all I kind of did.
		That's all I was interested in.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Wow.
		It's crazy that you blacked out from Red Bull and vodka.
		So the hypoglycemic aspect of it is just super bad for you, huh?
unidentified		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		In fact, my wife just told me this morning, unrelated, she was on the internet and she said, Toronto looking to ban alcohol and Red Bull served in bars.
		Just popped up this morning on the internet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's so crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I never thought of that as a bad drink.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, very dangerous.
		Once something like that happens to you, you look it up on the internet, there's a lot of that going on.
		Hypoglycemic seizures as a result of vodka Red Bulls.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's so funny.
		When it's hypoglycemic, what if you use sugar-free Red Bull?
		Does it have a lesser effect?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It could help, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It could help!
		I'm trying to give it a go.
		I'm enabling folks.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Give it a go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I feel like it's always like a weird thing when you mix an upper and a downer too, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's what you're doing with alcohol and Red Bull.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		If you smoke a bit of weed and you drink a coffee, it's kind of the same thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not really though, because I don't think weed is a downer.
		It's not a downer in terms of like a depressant.
		Alcohol is a true depressant.
		Weed, like, you could smoke a joint and lift weights and have a great workout.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I can't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can't?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		No, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You need to hang out with me more.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe so.
		Oh, man, all I want to do is, like, chill out.
		I'll watch fights, I'll do a bit of writing or whatever, but I tend to get a little introverted and a little mellow.
		I don't know, it's just...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what's fantastic?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Weed and yoga.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that would make sense to me, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's amazing.
		Stretching.
		I was talking to my friend Aubrey about this the other day.
		There's this buddy that we know that makes these, they're called jambos, these organic edibles.
		He uses honey instead of processed sugar, and they're really delicious.
		They're super strong and you know Aubrey ate one and then went on this like two-hour stretching and like Rampage was like like using a lacrosse ball to roll out all the the tight tissue that makes just makes you really in tune it makes you feel like I like lifting weights on it because it makes me like feel like what my body's doing I feel like I can get like a sense a better a more in tune more sensitive and Yeah,
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I'd be afraid of, not afraid, but I don't feel like doing something physical, but I'd definitely give it a try.
		Is weightlifting for you, that's become like a martial art, right?
		It is to me.
		I think of, especially Olympic lifting, that's a martial art.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		In what way?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		At Olympic lifts, say a clean or a snatch, you work forever on the little details to try to make yourself calm enough to be able to express yourself with the lift.
		To be able to really put it all together.
		You move one way wrong, you don't nail the lift.
		You distribute your weight different in your feet, you don't nail the lift.
		You don't drive and tie your hips together with the same time that you're supposed to go up on your toes and shrug, you don't hit the lift.
		So it becomes this Ongoing work to try to make this thing better.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I see what you're saying, yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And man, doing an Olympic clean to me is one of the great things in the world.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		To be able to just really hit one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's such a full body exercise too.
		It really enhances your ability to explode.
		Anytime you're doing anything where you're pushing up from your toes from the ground and extending and lifting it up over your head and forcing your whole body to fucking power that up.
		Everything.
		Your whole chain, your core, your spine, everything.
		Your shoulder, your delts, your quads, your toes.
		Your toes are pushing.
		That's why Steve Maxwell is a big proponent of lifting weights barefoot.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He thinks that, you know, when you have a, like, especially a spongy sort of like a running shoe on, where it's like a lot of give, that you're not feeling, you know, you're not engaging your toes, pushing off the ground.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I think it'd also take away some of your force.
		Some of the force you're exerting, it would kind of absorb it a little bit.
		I definitely, they, a lot of the Olympic lifters around where I go, I go to this place, Bang Fitness in Toronto, and it's just like, It's the best part of my week to go in there.
		And most of the guys who Olympic lift just use the tiny, tiny, tiny shoe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, really thin sole.
		Yeah.
		I like those.
		A lot of people criticize those toe shoes.
		You know, apparently they made a bunch of ridiculous claims that aren't necessarily true.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I still like them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I love them for lifting weights.
		They're so comfortable for lifting weights.
		And again, the same thing.
		They're really flat and they make you feel...
		I like the fact that the toes are all free moving because you can push off with those things.
		You feel like your connection to the ground.
		But yeah, I'm a big fan of Olympic lifts.
		I'm a big fan of obviously of kettlebells.
		I'm a big fan of anything where you're doing these explosive strength exercises.
		They just make your body so much goddamn stronger.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You just feel good doing them.
		You know, talk about drugs or whatever.
		It's like you get endorphins from doing full body lifts.
		Hey, have you ever seen that?
		On the internet, these kinesiologists broke down in like milliseconds, Bruce Lee's one-inch punch.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've seen that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that crazy?
		And they show that it's actually the order in which his body fires.
		And it's like the millisecond, the shred of a millisecond in between the different body parts kind of firing one after the other.
		It's fascinating.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It is fascinating.
		You know, I used to be a...
		Well, I still am a huge fan of Mike Tyson, but one of the things that I used to always be fascinated about Tyson and people didn't comment on is the size of his fucking legs.
		Like, that's where all the power was coming from.
		He was, like, pushing off the floor, constantly, like, pushing off the floor, and just...
		Everything was, like, thrusting from the bottom.
		And when you see a guy punching, you assume, like, oh, it's his body, his upper body, his arms are throwing the punch...
		But really, with a guy like Tyson, those vicious power punches, it was all coming from his ass.
		From his toes down, pushing off, and all his quads and his upper body throwing it into it.
		It's amazing how much of your full body is involved in techniques.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And kettlebells, Olympic lifts, stuff like that.
		The bottom half attaches to the top half.
		That strength in between those two.
		That's definitely the big part.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When you compete, what weight do you compete at?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		135. Whoa!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What do you walk around at?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Probably 158 right now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow!
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Drain yourself, huh?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, when I was fighting for me, even at the beginning, was trying to figure out what's going on.
		Like, really understand it to the point that I can fairly analyze it.
		And I really felt like that I had to go in and do it.
		Also, you become a better person going and doing that.
		You know, pushing.
		You talked about it just today.
		You're pushing, taking risks, going and putting yourself in harm's way, putting yourself at risk of failure.
		I mean, that's part of it.
		But really, it's to figure out stuff.
		Being forced to make heavy weight is tough.
		Going to a weigh-in and seeing a guy want to kill you.
		All of those experiences, I think, helped my real calling of analyzing fights.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why did you decide to cut so much weight?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It started out, my first fight, I probably walked around at 145 pounds, and then you cut weight, and your next fight, you're 148 pounds.
		And then you cut all that weight, and you come back, and you gain your 150 pounds.
		I was also 39 when I took my first fight, and now I'm 45. So over the six years, I gained three pounds a year.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just muscle lifting weights.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, lifting weights, working really hard, changing my life from eating burgers and shit and drinking beer at lunch to working out twice a day.
		All of that just added three, four pounds of muscle a year.
		And each time you cut weight, after you've gained the weight back, you fought.
		And then you've had your couple of days to eat pizza and burgers and stuff.
		The weight that you are then is a pound or two heavier than it was the last time you were there.
unidentified		Really?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, at least it was for me.
		So these guys, at least maybe in your 30s and 40s, so a lot of these guys, you know, they either have a perfect, and I was going to say they have a perfect diet, but a lot of these guys celebrate the way that you deserve to celebrate after you fought a fight, and they don't have the perfect diet right after.
		But that walking around weight creeps up a little bit, at least it did for me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the lighter weight guys, traditionally, those have been the guys that have the shortest careers.
		The lighter weight guys, when they get into their 30s, it starts to drop off, whereas heavyweights, In their 30s, a lot of times they're just hitting their prime.
		You know, like you could have a heavyweight...
		Like, look, George Foreman won the heavyweight title at 45 years old.
		46, actually.
		And was the oldest heavyweight champion.
		And was the oldest boxing champion until Bernard Hopkins recently.
		Which is just...
		The freakiest of freaks.
		He's the strangest guy ever.
		He's amazing to me.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Do you know him?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Have you got to know him?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		I need to meet him.
		I've never met him, but I've admired his style.
		I was amazed back when he beat Kelly Pavlik, which was like, what was that?
		2007 or something like that?
		Seven years later, he's still blowing people away.
unidentified		It's wild.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It is wild.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Who's that football player that was fighting in, was it Bellator?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hershel Walker?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Hershel Walker.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He's 50-something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was 48 when he was fighting Strikeforce.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, Strikeforce, of course.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Shredded.
		I mean, he was goddamn shredded and just a beast at 48. But Hershel Walker's...
		Something going on there that's not kosher.
		I mean, with his brain.
		Because he says that he eats a salad and drinks a bowl of soup in a day and that's it.
		That's not even possible to keep that kind of mass.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, we could get some doctors and dieticians and they would 100% tell us there's no way that could be true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So when a guy tells you that all he eats is a salad and drinks a cup of soup every day, you're like, okay, I don't know what he's doing.
		He might be fucking with people.
unidentified		Yeah, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's something not kosher about that, though.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's weird.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But he's so yoked.
		It's crazy to see that kind of muscle mass on a 48-year-old guy.
		No loss of muscle mass.
		In fact, he looks like a 25-year-old guy in his prime.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Well, the science.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it is not cool to suggest that somebody's doing something, but not talking about him necessarily.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You mean performance enhancing drugs or something.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the science of many guys in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s.
		The science is there to make a 65...
		I mean, we've all seen photos of those 70-year-old guys just shredded.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at Stallone.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Stallone is like 67 years old now, and he's ripped.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wish I had his body.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		No, crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's ridiculous.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It would be fascinating to get a real, one of these guys on the front end of anti-aging and human performance, that science, to figure out like, okay, a bodybuilder uses this much growth hormone.
		A guy like, say, an actor on CSI maybe uses like this much, you know, like anti-aging.
		How much is this 70, how much is Stallone using?
		You know what I mean?
		To get a sense of where the chemistry is happening.
		Like, is this more?
		Is this different?
		Do you have the new shit that we don't know about?
		Like, what's going on at the elite level?
		Like, Stallone was, I don't, I mean, he's not an athlete, so it's not a big deal, but he was caught at an airport once with a whole bunch of...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was in Australia, because it's illegal in Australia.
		They have weird laws when it comes to hormones, even hormones that are prescribed by doctors that don't show any negative effects on the body.
		When used at normal doses, meanwhile, they have alcohol at every fucking store, you know, every bar in every corner.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's all crazy.
		Science is fucking weird.
		Medicine's weird.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's ignorance.
		It's not the science or medicine that's weird.
		It's the ignorance.
		No, it's essentially the people that are dictating the rules, the people that are writing the laws, their ignorance about understanding the effects on the human body that these substances have.
		If it's done correctly...
		And if it's done through proper medical supervision, it enhances the body.
		And that's what people don't understand.
		When you arrest a guy like Stallone, who's showing up with growth hormone, and he's, why don't you just let him take his shirt off and look, does he look bad?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He's healthy, he's performing well, he's happy, his life is good.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		What exactly is going on here?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's also, it's not like he's competing in some sport where he has some unfair advantage.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, he's an old guy who wants to have a body that works good.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And why is it okay that that old guy could go to the bar and just do shot after shot until his fucking liver collapses and no one stops that, but you have a problem with him bringing in boxes of human growth hormone.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's weird.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It is weird.
		For some reason, people...
		When something...
		It happens that people decide something is a law or bad or they've made a decision on something.
		It takes forever to change it.
		People are anti-science, right?
		They're anti-science.
		So it's like you'd go, no, look, this is why this is good.
		No, because since the 60s we've said this is bad, therefore it's bad.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think when it comes to growth hormone and testosterone and all these different things, where people have an issue is because the way it's played out in the public eye has been all about illegal use in sports.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's been about the Barry Bond situation.
		It's been about Mark McGuire.
		It's been about all these people that are taking these things and cheating in sports.
		So because our associations have been all about people getting unfair advantages in sports, people automatically assume that these substances are bad for you.
		When you look at cigarettes, which are one of the worst things for you ever, no one's stopping that from being legal.
		Those are everywhere.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		There's people that make hundreds of billions lobby to make that stay legal.
		It's like, I'm making $100 billion.
		I've got to get some government person to say, cigarettes is okay.
		Let's keep that cool.
		It's motivated by finance, by commerce.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that's why I don't understand.
		You could sell testosterone, too.
		That could be motivated by finance as well.
		It's just there's a big difference between the way people look at...
		There should be a big difference between the way people look at someone who's doing something that's a performance-enhancing drug that's allowing them to compete with an unfair advantage in a sport and doing it where if you're a guy like Sylvester Stallone and you're doing it to enhance your life and you're 70 years old or whatever and you're shredded, who gives a shit?
		Let the guy do whatever he wants.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Well, what if there's an element of trying to keep a difference between the people at the top and the people at the bottom?
		What if all the people at the bottom got testosterone?
		That would be harder to manage them, harder to kind of keep them...
		What do you mean?
		The societal difference between the oppressed, the people who are kind of at the bottom of the food chain, the people who run shit, the kind of people who kind of monitor how the world kind of works, prefer to keep people watching TV, not really eating bad food, smoking cigarettes.
		There's a direction to keeping some of society not super active.
		And those people don't want those people to take performance-enhancing drugs.
		They want them to smoke cigarettes and eat hamburgers and shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if that's a real conscious decision.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's a thing that gets thrown around a lot, that accusation gets thrown around that there's some sort of international cabal that's looking out to keep the proletariat down.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But not so much saying that there's some room somewhere where 20 guys are in there making decisions, just the feeling, the way that society kind of breaks itself up.
		If these laws happen for this reason, it keeps these guys rich.
		The way that society kind of divvies shit out, it just kind of ends up being that way.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it kind of ends up being that way more than anybody's trying to make it that way.
		I think that what people have when it comes to testosterone and human growth hormone and anti-aging and all these, the stigmas that people have on whether it's the efficacy of them or the dangers of them, is a lot of it is based on sports.
		A lot of it is based on all the negative press that we've heard about guys taking steroids in sports.
		And then there's, you know, in MMA, there's this huge issue with testosterone replacement therapy, which was up until very recently legal.
		Now, human growth hormone has always been illegal, but they were never testing for it until recently.
		When Chael Sonnen got popped for human growth hormone, it was a big deal because it let everybody know, like, oh boy, these new tests.
		Like, I had a conversation with Chael about it right after he got popped.
		Well, turns out these new tests are really good.
		And that's really what it was.
		They're doing these tests that cost $45,000 per athlete.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yep, it's all financed by the UFC. Lorenzo pays for all this shit, and they're testing the blood.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I guess either do it or don't, and they're doing it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And they're doing it, they have this, like, really intense chain of evidence where, like, the guy will show up at your house, take your blood, and it's like, you know, a fucking suitcase.
		He's got chained to his wrist.
		Like, it's one of those type of deals.
		The guy travels with it to wherever the lab is.
		Like, it's in his custody the entire time.
		And they take the blood from your body, he signs off on it, and they bring it to the laboratory, and then the laboratory analyzes it.
		And you're finding...
		They're gonna find out a lot of guys are taking shit.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		It's a really interesting one.
		It's such a large thing.
		It's like people will try to talk about it in a three-minute chunk on TV or write one article about it.
		But it's such a large philosophical thing, right?
		We have to look back at what it means to strive and want to succeed and want to win and the desire to be great and all that.
		I mean, shit.
		We can go and train at elevation, which will increase your red blood cell count, but you can't take EPO, which will do the same thing.
		And for a lot of guys, it's like...
		You know, they want to be great.
		And it's like at the low levels or the mid-levels, the guys are broke.
		You know, maybe it's not as vital.
		But at the top of it means $5 or $10 million.
		And that chasing greatness has always been there.
		And this doctor's like, I can help you chase greatness.
		That's naturally, instinctively there to go, Well, let's explore everything.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's where the Balco guy came in.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The Victor Conte guy who came along and came up with some different strategies for avoiding tests, some drugs that hadn't been detected yet that they found were effective.
		They sort of manipulated the components of some various performance-enhancing drugs.
		And that's where they got that stuff that they called the Clear that they were giving, allegedly, to Barry Bonds and a bunch of different people.
		I had Conte on the podcast, and he sort of explained the whole process behind all that stuff.
		Wow.
		He's a fascinating cat because now he's kind of working hard to stop doping in sports, which is like really a weird position to take when that was your whole career was like juicing guys up.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I think I saw him on like Dateline or something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, I don't know how I feel about that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's weird.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		it is very strange but i also don't know how i feel i mean these guys that were on the testosterone guys like vitor vitor is the poster boy right for test because if you've seen the photos of him now like pre and post it's really crazy dude yeah pull this photo of uh vitor uh pre and post trt because uh you know he's been saying you know i'm not on trt anymore now it's just tnt yeah and
		And so then Chris Weidman posts, hold on, is this what happens when you replace TRT with TNT? And he shows a picture of TRT Vitor versus the recent Vitor who's off testosterone.
		And he has shrunken.
		I mean, he has really, like Luke Rockhold just said that he has a chicken neck now.
		I mean, it's weird.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And that's going to get to him.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You know what the easiest thing to do to get a guy in the gym, a big, like...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Now that's the wrong photos.
		Because that's a photo of him before testosterone placement and after.
		What you want to see is...
robin black ▲ ● ▼		During and after.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Chris Weidman comments on Vitor Belfort TRT and look for a photo.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		The guys will be like, well, I didn't really need it.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's like, then why were you taking it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, how can you say that?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
		And you look at him.
		But there's definitely all kinds of stuff at play.
		That will dramatically affect his confidence.
		Oh, yeah.
		And his confidence.
		How are you throwing spinning head kicks in the eye?
		Because you've got this level of confidence.
		I can do it.
		That's not going to just affect how he looks and what he can do.
		It will affect the way he performs, without question.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, shrink that down so we can see the full image.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at this.
		Look at his body, like on the right-hand side.
		It looks like he's lost at least 15 pounds.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and his neck and the swelling under his chin.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		His neck has shrunk.
unidentified		It really is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at the difference in the left picture, like how high his traps are, and the right picture.
		It's nuts.
		I mean, his body is shrinking.
		It looks so different.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's a strange one too because you go into a gym with bodybuilders, you want to get a guy just freaking out.
		He looks smaller today.
		Don't lose their shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Those guys especially.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		A guy's been walking around in the world with the craziest body that you've ever seen and now people online go and he's got a chicken neck.
		That's going to affect his choices from here.
		It's a tough place to be for him.
unidentified		Gotta stay offline.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's definitely going to hear about all these things that people are saying about him.
		And it's interesting because people are saying, like on the underground, people are speculating, like, maybe this is going to make Vitor start using again.
		And if he does start using again, then he's going to piss hot.
		And it's also about, like, they're testing these guys.
		Who's testing them?
		Where are they testing them?
		How are they being tested?
		You know, is it going to come down to the UFC has to show up at the gym every day while a fighter's training and have them pee in a cup every day?
		Yeah, good point.
		What is the way to tell if a guy's taking anything?
		Because the problem with urine tests especially, because guys would joke around about it.
		They would say it's not even a drug test, it's an intelligence test.
		If you test positive when they're testing your urine, you're a fucking idiot.
		Because all this stuff, like oral testosterone is out of your system within 24 hours.
		Human growth hormone is out of your system within 10 hours.
		You can't even test, I don't think, human growth hormone without using blood.
		I don't even think you can test in urine.
		So these guys that were getting popped, they were just doing it completely wrong.
		So now that there's this really stringent testing, you've got to think, well, guys are cheating in the Olympics.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If they're cheating in the Olympics, how are they getting away with it?
		That's some of the most stringent testing ever.
		Because they know when they're going to be tested.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That's a new protocol, yeah.
		A new thing.
		It's like, okay, at 3 o'clock in the morning you set your alarm, you take this one at 3. You drink this many liters of something before you do that.
		Yeah, they'll find a way.
		Because the game is to try to win.
		And try to win every little scenario.
		And the doctor who's trying to fix this thing, he's got a game to try to win too.
		People are motivated to try to do great things.
		And this doctor's assignment in life, your assignment in life, well, you have 20, you know, you'll make people laugh and call fights and do a million things, but his is to beat drug tests.
		This doctor, this one doctor here, his goal is to go out there, wake up tomorrow and fucking figure out how to win this contest of beating this test, you know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm really curious to see what's going to happen to these guys that were on testosterone replacement and now they're off.
		Because Chael Sundin's retired, he's out of the business, but Vitor's still in it, and Vitor is one of the few guys from 1997, when he made his debut, that is at the elite level today in 2014 and is ready to fight for a title.
		So it's really interesting.
unidentified		Yeah, it really is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's really, really interesting.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But hormones are a weird thing too.
		My thyroid burned out.
		And I never thought of this until like...
		This is how stupid...
		Like I grew up by a nuclear power plant.
		Like in this town called Pinawa, Manitoba.
		There's like a nuclear research plant there.
		And when I was young, my mom's thyroid went out.
		And then when I was in my 30s, mine just ended up dying as tumors.
		And so if they fixed it up, you take a hormone, two hormones that take your T3 and T4. And the other one is...
		TSH, thyroid stimulating hormone.
		Those three things go out of whack when your thyroid is off.
		You feel like shit.
		Like you can't function when your hormones go out of whack like that.
		So imagine somebody, I don't know what it would be like to have your testosterone at that level, but it's got to throw you the fuck out of whack.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, these guys that get off of it, the thing is when you take testosterone, you put this artificial testosterone in your body, your body stops producing regular testosterone.
		So if they had low tests before, it's even lower now because your body stops taking it.
		You're injecting all this stuff into your system.
		And, you know, he's only 37 years old.
		It's a weird thing to have old man testosterone levels at 36, 37 years old, and then to have to face a fucking beast like Chris Weidman, knowing that Vitra Belfort, when he fought Michael Bisping, when he fought Luke Rockhold, when he fought Dan Henderson, all these guys, he was on this artificial stuff.
		And it was making him super confident.
		He was built.
unidentified		He was strong.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was super explosive.
		And now all that's gone.
		And now he's still got technique.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And Weidman's a motherfucker.
unidentified		He's a motherfucker.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And he's like, man, you look at that guy.
		You look at what...
		He's a weird one, too.
		You don't even look at him and think he's just a modern amalgamation.
		He's just genetically better than us.
		He's more handsome than us.
		He's funnier than us.
		He's more confident than us.
		He's genetically better than 97, 99% of all men on Earth.
		And he learns fast.
		And he's incredibly driven.
		And he grew up wrestling.
		The thing about wrestlers, they just spend their whole time dominating other men.
		That's all they're about growing up.
		They dominate other men physically.
		That's who that guy grew up with.
		Then he learns well.
		He's got the best coaches.
		Everyone believes in him.
		Like a guy like that.
		We called that he was going to beat Anderson Silva.
		He was in our studio and we're talking to him.
		And you talk to this guy in advance and he fucking believed without a shadow of a doubt he was going to beat him.
		Even turned down, remember this, he turned down his contract renewal.
		And said, no, I'll beat him and then I'll sign my new contract.
		I know I'll have to beat him twice.
		Everything he said came true.
		Everything.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's an animal.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he did it all with his knees all fucked up.
		You know, a lot of people don't know, he couldn't even bring his heel up to his ass.
		Like, his knees were so arthritic.
		And then he went and got that Regenikine done in Germany.
		And then after he had that done, he still had to get his knees scoped.
		But against Liotto, his knees were great, and now he's throwing kicks at him and shit, and he's a different animal.
		He's an unusual dude.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He really is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He can take it, too.
		That's the other thing about Weidman.
		Like, Liotto unloaded on him in the fifth round, and he was still there.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And kind of asking for more.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, fourth and fifth round.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		When he was at Fight Network, he had a couple hours to kill until he went to the airport, and he was hanging out, and Ramdeen started playing him in ping pong.
		And Ramdeen was getting a slight better of him.
		He fucking got dead serious.
		I want a better paddle.
		I'm not fucking around here.
		Dead serious.
		And he's like, I don't like to lose.
		He's still having fun.
		We're having a great time.
		But he did not want to lose that game.
		It was not in him to let this guy beat him at ping pong.
		He's not a ping pong guy even.
		He just is not having it.
		Just not having it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of guys like that.
		I played Jake Ellenberger pool once, and Ellenberger, who's a fucking stud, he's not very good at pool.
		And I've been playing pool a long time, and he's fucking, every time I was winning, he's like, fucking shit.
unidentified		Damn it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, you can see, like, he was handling it, but he didn't like it.
		Yeah.
		But that's the quality that makes them great fighters.
		That unwillingness to lose.
		The guy who wants to fight you if you fucking beat him at pinball.
		That's that quality that makes them a great fighter.
		Hating losing.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Once you're getting at this point where these guys are the top, top guys, They have to have all of it.
		They have to have that quality.
		They have to have that genetics.
		They have to have those coaches.
		They have to have that mental game or else there's just no way.
		That's how good the whole level is now.
		It's still getting better.
		It's shocking.
		Ellenberger had that fight with Rory and he's never been a shit talker.
		And all of a sudden he was talking all kinds of shit on Twitter and stuff.
		And when he got in there, it raised that pressure so high That, you know, it wasn't that I, like, I gotta beat this guy.
		It was, I just can't lose bad to a guy I called a fruit stick on the internet.
		And the pressure of it.
		That's why when people are so excited about Jon Jones and Daniel Cormier, I'm like, this kind of, although it's great, I love that people are into a fight.
		I love, like, that there'll be a million more people than normally watching a fight.
		That's, I love that.
		That's awesome.
		But for me personally, I just want to see them fight.
		They're going to fight whether they hate each other or not.
		They're going to go in there and we're going to see 25 minutes or less of these two guys putting together their lifetime of everything to fight.
		Whether or not that guy hates that guy isn't really all that relevant to me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I agree with you.
		I was torn on that whole thing because part of me loves the fact they're fucking with each other and getting into each other's heads.
		But I think that it's not a good representation of mixed martial arts to see two guys who are at the elite level have a street fight like that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I hated that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I loved when they were talking with no mic on because that was real.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was funny when Jon Jones puts the microphone and goes, Hey pussy, are you there?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
		And then I would kill you.
		I would kill you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I would literally kill you.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I would literally kill you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he's like, John, you think I would just let you kill me?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Come on, Daniel.
		You can do better than that.
		I'm a big Cormier guy, man.
		Although John Jones is absolutely brilliant.
		But when they fought each other on a stage, I hated that.
		Stupid.
		Like...
		Two of the best athletes in the world, and that's the worst fight I've ever seen.
		I don't want no part of that.
		It's bad.
		People are going, oh, you watch that show?
		Oh, you work in that business?
		Look at these idiots.
		That's terrible.
		But when they were talking about each other with a camera on, that's real, and there's so little real in the world.
		You fucking win some...
		Hip-hop award and you got to thank God and your fucking producer and you know I just feel so blessed and I want to thank the fans it's like fucking bullshit let me see what you say when there's when there's not everybody there yeah that's the thing about that getting John and Daniel well apparently that video was pulled Yeah.
		There was more.
		Apparently, when they said, guys, you're on the internet.
		I think, again, it's Melcher might have that.
		Hey, guys, you're being shot.
		This could be around the world.
		And Jones' face just went like, holy shit.
		He was like...
		Like, he realized, you know?
		That's the best part.
		I don't know why that part didn't get shared.
craig jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, everybody's trying to put up an image.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, John's depiction of what happened when he first met Daniel.
		I was just trying to make a new friend.
		Like, what?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		They both told the exact same story.
		Only he said, I did this, this, this.
		He did that.
		This happened.
		He was a dick.
		And I go, yeah, I did this, this.
		This happened.
		But I was just fucking around.
		But they tell the exact same story.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he wasn't even saying he was fucking around.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was like, I was just trying to form a new friendship.
unidentified		Like, what?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fuck you were.
		You're trying to let some dudes in your division know that you're the fucking king.
		You ain't taking me down.
		You know, he was like trying to let him know.
		He was trying to fuck with his head and let the gamesmanship begin.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And that stuff is definitely...
		That's all interesting because that's all real, too.
		That's all having a real effect on the outcome of a fight.
		All of that mental stuff.
		You know, guys at the weigh-ins, how they act.
		I mean, you've seen the science where they looked at the smiles?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, there's a science to it?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, these guys, so check that out on the internet.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		These researchers, these sociologists go and they looked at hundreds or thousands of UFC weigh-ins and they found that guys who smiled lost an extremely large percentage of them.
unidentified		Really?
		Yeah, for real.
		Wow.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		For real.
		And because that moment is a moment of the starting of the conflict between the two males, between the two alpha males.
		It doesn't start when the cage chorus starts.
		It starts when we're setting the tone of who's who in there.
		And when the smile is a giveaway of a certain...
		There's two kinds of smiles.
		One's called the Cheshire smile, and it is a smile of, I'm going to fucking kill you.
		And that one doesn't count.
		They look at the actual types of smiles.
		It's real.
		It's fascinating.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That one doesn't count.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		No, because it's a different expression.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You can look at slivers of expression in psychology and what they mean, and that one means something different.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that fascinating, the difference in understanding facial expressions?
		Human beings kind of get when someone's creepy, but would a robot be able to figure that out?
		Study finds smiling fighters are losing fighters.
		But that's not always true.
		John Dodson smiles every fight.
		That's not a good example.
		He smiles before he fucks people up, too.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		The math.
		You look at the math and it's like whatever the numbers are.
		There are exceptions.
		They might lose whatever 68% of the time or 63%.
		That's higher than the 50% that you would think.
		But that still means there's 32% of other guys who smile and kick ass.
		It just shows that there is a sway in the statistical truth of that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's funny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Donald Cerrone and Anthony Pettis.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I did a breakdown.
		I'll send it to you of what the impression of alpha male posturing, the effect that that has on fighting.
		So guys will stand there and they'll project a certain posture.
		There was research done at the University of Harvard, Harvard University, about alpha posture and what happens if you're interviewing me for a job and I have a certain posture and they talk to you after, you'll score me much higher of your opinion of me.
		Also, yeah, and that affects your – when we go to fight, and like Uriah Faber has that a lot, and he projects a certain thing, and that will affect your performance.
		But the science actually shows that it affects his performance as well because there's certain postures that when you do them, your testosterone raises a measurable amount and your cortisol drops a measurable amount significantly.
		Just by doing a certain physical posture.
unidentified		What?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's real, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A physical posture makes your cortisol drop and your testosterone raise.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, instead of testosterone therapy, why don't guys just posture all day?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Some guys do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Would that really work?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a few of them and a big one...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Somebody tell Vitor.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Just drive that shit all the way up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		His neck will swell up again.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		This trap's...
		It's a Harvard research, and they did it to measure your biological responses to your own physical posture, but it also, there's an interpretation of the other guy.
		So I broke that down, and then I took a piece of Donald Cerrone standing there looking over at Pettis.
		And then I've superimposed what Cerrone said after.
		And he said, I looked across the cage at him and I looked at him and I thought, dang, I pissed him off and he's coming hard.
		And it was the worst performance he's ever had.
		And he talks openly.
		Cerrone's fascinating because Cerrone's a regular guy who deals with fear and uses it appropriately.
		And he talked about looking over, and he literally said, I saw that guy, and he said, after, I knew I had to see a psychiatrist, like a sports psychiatrist, or a psychologist, because there's no way I should be about to fight a guy, and the things going through my mind is, oh man, I pissed him off.
		Never should happen.
		But it was, in part, the posture of Pettis that projected that on him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Each of these guys who wear red win a slight percentage larger.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		All of a sudden, GSP is wearing red every time.
unidentified		Really?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Because guys are looking for 1% and 2% incremental raises.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		There are certain guys, anyways.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why does red make you win more?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I would think Mike Tyson always wore black.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, Mike Tyson was Mike Tyson.
		Mike Tyson is going to wear pink.
		Yeah, fuck, that's okay.
		It's probably something that you see in the wild when you see a certain color in nature and it has an effect on you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Red, huh?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Each of these things might be 1 or 2%.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		In the end, if you can't fucking fight, it doesn't matter.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So if you have the physical skills and you have the technique and then you add on those other things.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, imagine both guys at the top level have all that.
		They both have the best strength and conditioning on earth.
		They both have the entire human history of fighting skills.
		They both have all the mental training.
		They have all that shit.
		Shit, man, if I could get a half a percentage of increase on my side in any way, let's stack up two or three of those half percentages.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wonder what the red thing is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a weird one.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's true in all sports.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Sports teams that wear red have won a slightly larger percentage of time than any other color.
unidentified		Really?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why red?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, man.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		This is the kind of shit that fascinates me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, they also say that red sports cars get pulled over more.
unidentified		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's something in nature.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's something that we probably have to deal with as a threat evolutionary.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, red is a threatening thing.
		If you see an animal that's red, like a snake that's red, you assume that that's a snake that could poison you.
		But animals, there's no red predators, are there?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		There might have been certain thousands of years ago.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		T-Rex or some shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
unidentified		In sports, red is a winning color.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
		So you start stacking up all these sciences.
		So now I got years worth of fucking breakdowns I can do just from all these things to reading and looking.
		It's like you start to combine them.
		You know, you got the evolutionary hand and you got the jaw and you got red winning.
		You got alpha posture.
		You put all that shit together.
		What the fuck does that mean?
		That's what I'm doing with my life.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
		You know, I also am fascinated, and I want to bring this back to you competing at such a light weight.
		I'm fascinated by the science of weight cutting and the negative aspects of weight cutting.
		This is an important part of MMA. And one of the best examples, in my opinion, is Anthony Rumble Johnson.
		Anthony Rumble Johnson fought at 170 for the majority of the first stint of his UFC career.
		Fought one fight at 185 with Vitor Belfort.
		Actually didn't even make the weight.
		Was overweight.
		Got cut from the UFC. And then started fighting heavyweight.
		Fucked up Andrzej Orlovski as a heavyweight.
		Was destroying guys in the first round.
		Almost stopped him.
		Really, probably they should have stopped that fight.
		Then fought in the UFC as a light heavyweight.
		Two fights in a row has just been a murderer.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Phil Davis is a world-class dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Full Davis couldn't take him down and just got battered on the feet and then destroyed Little Nog in the first round.
		40 seconds of the first round.
		Just lit him up like a Christmas tree.
		And looks like the scariest guy in the world at 205 pounds when his first career was 35 pounds lighter than that.
		That's crazy.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I remember seeing him in Ohio when I was sitting in the stands.
		It was Rampage versus Keith Jardine.
		And I was sitting in the stands and there's these pretty girls.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at the size of him.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		What the fuck?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He's amazing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What fight is that?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Staples Center.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's probably...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Was that Phil Davis?
		No.
		That might have been him when he fought at 170, which is ridiculous.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Crazy.
		But I saw him, and there was these hot girls and eight UFC fighters walked over.
		Oh, hi, great to see you.
		And I was like, oh, okay, those are the Ohio chicks, right?
		And Anthony walks over just to say hello.
		They might have fucking had a real job.
unidentified		I don't know.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I projected that on them because they were pretty.
		And he goes over.
		That's him at 170. I turn to my buddy, and I'm like...
		That huge guy, that fucking enormous guy looks a lot like Anthony Johnson.
		And it was Anthony Johnson at like 240 pounds when he was a 170. But yeah, I mean the weight cutting thing...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how he did that.
unidentified		Yeah, I don't know.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He almost killed himself probably doing it.
		And I mean, if we're talking about measuring things that really work, looking at the math of like, is this better than this?
		Okay, great.
		You're eight pounds heavier than the other guy.
		That raises your, let's say, if we're going to score your likelihood of winning, it raises 6%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's the point of diminishing returns.
unidentified		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		What if it drops you 8% because of the weight cut and stuff?
		It's true.
		For me, I mean, all of this was a learning experience so I could be a real analyst.
		That's what I wanted to do.
		So cutting weight was an experience that I really needed to have.
		And understand it.
		But wrestlers did it.
		They were good at it.
		Wrestlers were beating everybody and they were bigger and everyone else was like, we gotta do this.
		And I think you're right.
		I think you're absolutely right.
		You gotta see guys get away from it eventually.
		Get away from that huge weight cut.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wish guys didn't cut weight at all.
		I mean, I really wish they fought and everyone made an agreement to fight at what you weigh.
		But everybody wants this advantage.
		But the problem is when both guys are seeking an advantage and they both try to achieve that advantage, what you actually wind up happening is you have both guys that are fighting not to the best extent of their abilities.
		And so instead, neither guy has an advantage and both guys are compromised.
		Yeah, and it's also dangerous when it comes to combat sports.
		The difference between wrestling, which is a combat sport, but it's not a contact sport in terms of concussive blows.
		Where you're dealing with striking, there's a big difference.
		Almost all of the instances of brain damage and death that occurred in boxing because of boxing matches were lighter weight fights.
		Not brain damage, it's like accumulative.
		The heavyweight guys, of course, got that as well, but In fights where guys like had bleeding on the brain and then wound up dying.
		Almost all of them.
		There was one recent one that was a heavyweight bout with Eric Perez, fought a Russian guy, and the guy had some swelling of the brain and his career is probably over.
		That was a prolonged beating, an unusual situation.
		Whereas like Boom Boom Mancini and Duck Kukim, that was a severe weight cut.
		Gerald McClellan, severe weight cut.
		A lot of fighters who wound up having horrible tragedies inside the ring, it was because they had depleted themselves, they dehydrated themselves, and then they got beat up.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's got to be a death in a high-level MMA one day, and you would guess that if there was dehydration in the brain, that would add to it, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, a guy died in Brazil from cutting weight.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		It's true.
		It was liver or kidney failure or something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Kidney failure.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which almost happened to Daniel Cormier when he competed in the Olympics.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He had kidney failure and they pulled him out of the Olympics.
unidentified		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And that big weight cut that guys do, one of the tools they use is hyperhydration where you use like a ton of distilled water.
		To flush all your sodium, but it also is like a kidney trick, where it's actually tricking your kidney to perform a certain way.
		It's really risky.
		Yeah, I think in the long run, if everybody just said, yeah, let's just fight it.
		Sam Stout and KJ Noons had a fight up in Quebec City, and they just, like, two days out, they're like, how much are you weighing, man?
		I'm weighing about 171. What about you?
		Like 170. You want to just fight at 170?
		And they just did it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's smart.
		It is smart.
		I mean, why torture yourself?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Especially if you're both doing it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you're both walking around at 185 and you're both cutting down to 170, fight at 185. You know, you probably both fight better.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		The trick is that everything's that arms race we were talking about.
		Everything is somebody looking for an advantage to win.
		So we agree to do it, but then I'm lying and I actually cut 15 pounds and now I'm way bigger than you.
		You know what I mean?
		Until you find a way to make it have to happen or make something that both guys adhere to for some reason that's safe, this is the way they're going to do it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's interesting.
		BJ Penn has a weird way of looking at things.
		Because BJ, although he dropped down to 145 pounds when he fought Frankie Edgar in his last fight, would not IV. And Dolce tried to get him to IV. He wouldn't do it.
		He feels like IVs are cheating.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That's weird.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the IV's cheating, but cutting weight's not cheating?
unidentified		Yeah, I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's weird.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, like, dehydrating yourself, getting on the scale of 145, and then drinking water's okay.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but putting it into you a different route is not okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's something about, like, needles.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's not natural, I guess, the idea.
unidentified		I wouldn't agree.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I think most guys wouldn't agree.
		He's a unique one, though, man.
		But a lot of debate over in our office with a few friends and stuff about his place in the world.
		Personally, I think B.J. Penn is one of the greats ever for a million reasons.
		Certain people will say, well, his record says this or he never beat.
		There's reasons that people argue it.
		But I think the biggest thing is pure talent.
		And one thing I think people sort of forget, you see a guy and you go to a guy's back and you trap his arm in there with the hook, that's a BJ Penn.
		You take a guy on the fence and you turn your body sideways and you elbow him when you're defending the single, that's a BJ Penn.
		Did we really see that at all before he fought Diego Sanchez?
		When you got a guy in a triangle but he hides his arm over here and you pressure the straight arm bar against your face until he gives you the triangle, that's a BJ Penn.
		There's all of these things that he did.
		I don't know.
		It's a weird one.
		At the very least, he should be considered one of the most beloved fighters of all time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he is a great fighter, for sure.
		And he's a two-division champion.
		Without a doubt, he's an all-time great.
		What I think about BJ is that BJ, at his very best, was outside of his comfort zone.
		He brought in Marinovich to do strength and conditioning, and he just got in this unbelievable condition.
		And when he fought Diego Sanchez, he was probably at his best.
		He was just a destroyer.
		And he had incredible endurance.
		I mean, he fought and he had the same pace deep into the fight that he did at the beginning of the fight.
		And that's what plagued BJ. B.J.'s just extremely, extremely talented, extremely game, very aggressive, but didn't like to train hard, didn't like to push himself, didn't like to get outside.
		I mean, you know, he'll dispute that.
		Of course he trained hard, but did he train the way he trained when he was with the Marinovichs?
		Like, you would talk about how he couldn't even hold his kid at night because he was so tired.
		But that's what it takes to be at that kind of level, you know, and he didn't like that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And when we're sort of on this hand saying absolutely one of the greats ever, and the other side of the debate, that's one of them, and another one was I think his Yeah.
		Yeah.
		was, see, he doesn't cut weight.
		He's the smaller man and he's faster.
		I'm going to go back up to 170 and I'll be the Frankie Edgar of 170.
		You know what I mean?
		Frankie Edgar at 155, him at 170 is theoretically his interpretation of the same approach.
		I'm the smaller guy.
		I'm the quicker guy.
		Enough with this other bullshit.
		I'm just better.
		I'm going to beat guys.
		And then he fought guys like Rory and fucking Nick Diaz and these monsters.
		There's no way this 145-pounder should be in there with Rory McDonald just sizing his lettuces.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He should have never been a 145er either, I don't think.
		I think he looked like this skinny, emaciated version of BJ Penn when he was there.
		I mean, yeah, you can make the weight if you just don't eat any food, but then your body eats itself.
		Like, that's not smart either.
		And then him at 170 was not like Frankie Edgar at 155. Frankie Edgar at 155 is ripped.
		He's in shape.
		He's moving fast.
		BJ had a role.
		You know, he looked pudgy.
		He looked soft.
		He just didn't look like the same guy.
		And he fought well.
		He's a very good fighter.
unidentified		But...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		His physical...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The correct weight for him, I will always think, is 155 pounds.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Or if there was a 150, maybe.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You know, if that existed.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think 55 is fine.
		You know, when he fought Diego Sanchez at 55, it was perfect.
		I think the issue was that BJ needs...
		He needed to be outside of his comfort zone.
		He needed to be away from that camp and be, you know, with a Matt Hume-type guy who organized his entire camp, brought in high-level guys...
		He dictated his training and took him outside of his comfort zone.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But he also likes being in Hawaii.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He likes training in Hawaii.
unidentified		There's a lot there.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		There's that 10,000 hours theory, right?
		There's a couple of guys who have done hard research under this.
		And one guy, there's a book called Talent is Overrated.
		And it's buying that.
		It doesn't matter what you were born with.
		If you outwork everybody, you'll be the man.
		And the other one is called the sports gene, right?
		And it's the opposite.
		It doesn't matter how fucking hard you work.
		If you don't have that gene, you can't do it.
		Of course, the truth is somewhere probably in the middle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the truth is most certainly in the middle.
		The issue is when you've got a guy who's got excellent genetics and is working hard, then you get a Jon Jones.
		You get a guy who has fantastic genetics and is super disciplined and focused and trains very hard.
		That's when you get true elite athletes like Jose Aldo.
		You get the elite of the elite when you have the best of both worlds.
		When you've got a guy who works really hard, but he has shit genetics, he will never achieve greatness.
		They just don't.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I think you could get close to it even five years ago.
		Like we mentioned Florian.
		Florian doesn't have no genes.
		He was just really smart and he worked really, really hard.
		And look how close he got.
		Close but not quite there because he just didn't have the genetics to do it.
		But he sure as fuck got close for a nerdy little cat from Boston.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he didn't have terrible genetics.
		I mean, he was fast, he had good kicks, he had great jiu-jitsu, you know.
		It's just these elite of the elite, the BJ Penn guys, the guys who just, they have that little something extra.
		You know, these, these Lyoto Machidas, these, you know, there's guys that just have, they have everything.
		They have genetics, like Weidman.
		Genetics and hard work and focus and mental toughness.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And breeding.
		His family was good.
		His family took care of him.
		Pointed, taught him the things he needed to learn.
		He had all of it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		His dad was an NFL player.
		So it's like, those genetics are strong.
		That's all a big thing.
		And also, I think growing up with brothers.
		There's a lot of fighters that grow up with big brothers.
		They're used to fighting in the house all the time.
		And those guys wind up being motherfuckers, man.
		Like Matt Hughes.
		Matt Hughes and his brother.
		His brother was a mirror.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's got a twin brother who's also a savage, and they beat the fuck out of each other all the time.
		And when you have that sort of an environment, man, you're extra tough.
		You're extra strong.
		Jon Jones, he's two super-athlete brothers.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And one of them is just so big.
unidentified		340. He weighs 340. And he's still to this day.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And it's vertical.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You see, this guy's...
		It's crazy.
		It's a beast.
		That's not human.
		Super athlete.
		Certainly not...
		If you came from outer space and you looked down and you saw a pit bull and a chihuahua, you wouldn't think those were the same animals.
		You saw me and John Jones' big brother, you wouldn't think we're the same thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You would just be like, oh, look, there's two different kinds of stuff.
unidentified		This one's small and this one's 340. Yeah, Bridget the Midget and Shaquille O'Neal.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're two completely different things.
		Yeah, but they're the same species.
		Yeah, there's genetics that are just undeniable.
		And if you've got a guy who's got those fantastic genetics and he is just engrossed in MMA, I mean, his body, his mind, his focus, he lives it, breathes it, eats it, sleeps it, gets up in the morning and thinks, how do I get better?
		That guy's going to be better than you.
		And also there's physical power, especially when it comes to striking.
		Physical power when it comes to striking is something you're either born with or you're not.
		Dominic Cruz is not born with it.
		He breaks his hands all the time and his body's kind of fragile in a way.
		He's got the mind for it.
		Yes, but will he be able to beat a guy like Burrell?
		Will he be able to beat the guys who have The genetics and have that physical power as well.
		There's these guys that have that knockout power.
		Anthony Rebel Johnson.
		There's a God-given gift.
		The world has given him a hand of cards and it is excellent.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And then you put him with Henry Hooft who has a God-given gift to take guys like that and make them better and now we're terrified.
		It's fucking scary.
		And man, the beauty of how he moves...
		I trained with a guy, Evan Boris, who's a kickboxing coach who trained with Henry.
		He was one of the guys carrying his bucket and learning from him.
		And he's just as passionate.
		Young guy up in Toronto.
		And he tells me all, he gives me insight into how Henry thinks and tries to show me stuff through Henry's eyes.
		So you feel like you're learning one step down from this master.
		And so his thing is with a guy like Anthony Johnson is that Henry Hooft...
		We'll say to him, you know, you gotta be ready.
		If you are ready, you don't gotta get ready.
		That's the essential, fundamental plan of Anthony Johnson, the way he stands and the way he moves, is at all times you're in a type of balance where you can deliver power.
		Because you have power, and we just need to keep you in a spot where you can deliver it all the time.
		So his takedown defense revolves around that, the way his footwork works revolves around that.
		It's all built so that at any moment in time when you throw a punch, you're in the state to be able to smash with it because you have that gift.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and also when you see a guy like Hooft or anyone who teaches that classic Dutch style of kickboxing, it's such a technical style and that style can be lost on someone who doesn't understand what's going on.
		Is that every movement has a purpose.
		Every technique has a purpose.
		Every technique chains into another technique.
		The left hook leads to the right low kick.
		And all these techniques, they go together like bread and butter.
		They're a part of a system.
		And Dwayne Ludwig is the best at breaking down.
		He's got books.
		He was over at my house the other day, and he had all these books of detail, all his techniques, and how they intertwine together, and he has steps and levels, and he has a whole belt system based around these techniques.
		I mean, he's spent countless hours analyzing and categorizing and putting all this stuff together.
		And that's what's sort of lost on a lot of people that you illuminate very well with your breakdowns.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		I appreciate that, man.
		I can't tell you.
		When I wanted to do that, I wanted to do it for people like you and Bang Ludwig and fighters and people in the business.
		I wanted them to like it.
		You know what?
		And it fucking means the world to me that people like it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you break down jiu-jitsu, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You broke down Eddie's match with Hoyler.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, jiu-jitsu is something I trained a lot for a while.
		And then I was in an environment where I was literally in one day heel hooked by three guys who intended to injure me.
		It was a really bad environment.
		Who are you rolling with?
		Not a rat, but it was like, you know, people.
		And there were just guys in the gym, but there was a little culture of guys.
		I'm like, who's that fucking guy?
		He wears makeup.
		He's on TV. He thinks he's a fucking...
		And they came after me one day.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And they were trying to hurt you?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		One for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Going for heel hooks specifically to try to injure you.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Two of them were specifically heel hooks for the purpose of trying to injure me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And later I heard, I'd heard from a number of people that that was a bit of the MO of a couple.
		Anyways, it's one of those things.
		So I kind of got away from it for a while and then I started reading Eddie's books actually.
		I'm going to train at his place tomorrow night.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Eddie's?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Last time I was in LA, I trained over there.
		Fuck, you take one class with Eddie Bravo and your whole understanding of everything you think you know about Jiu Jitsu, the whole thing fucking falls apart.
		It's so crazy.
		That you sit there and it's like, these are positions people use.
		You know, whatever, we'll take 10 or 15 of them.
		And the guy goes, and in between, as you know, obviously, in between each of those, there's an entire universe of stuff to do.
		In between the positions that people already know as positions, entire worlds, you know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but Eddie has done a fantastic job of...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		but incorporating other people's techniques into his style as well and just spent just like Dwayne countless hours analyzing positions and using them in the lab using them in the gym and using them with high-level guys and figuring out like a Guy in his gym will come up with some new variation on a specific technique And then they'll add it to the rotation and then the right they'll drill it and then they'll Some of them find a counter Yeah, I remember when I was there just that one time, and I had trained with Eddie.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		We met in Toronto one time, and I took him out for a bunch of drinks.
		It was fun.
		He's a really cool dude.
		It's really cool to have a buddy like that.
		And have him invite me to his gym and stuff.
		And he, you know, I got his books.
		And, you know, you see, okay, I understand mission control.
		Make sure you got the leg locked, you know, the invisible collar, dewclaw, all that kind of basic stuff.
		You read a little bit about his basics.
		Read a little bit about twister side control and the twister.
		And then you think you have an idea of what the Eddie Bravo system is if you read that.
		Like, I thought, well, in the world of guys who know about MMA, I think I know, you take one class with them, you don't know fucking anything.
		Like, there was something we did from some truck position, and my first curiosity was, I need to know how this guy's brain thinks.
		Like, why he thinks these, how he comes up with this shit.
		Because it was something that felt a lot like a lockdown position from another angle upside down while holding a leg.
		And I'm like, okay, well...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of techniques.
		You can reverse the positions of the bodies and just say, like, well, if I'm on my back, I get a guy with a triangle.
		What happens if I'm not on my back, but I'm on his back?
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I'm behind him, and then can I catch a triangle there?
		Yeah, it's kind of the same thing.
		The arm is there.
		It's like, remember when Matt Hughes choked out Ricardo Almeida?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, that front choke.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And he TP'd up with his head.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's essentially an arm triangle, but it's an arm triangle from a completely different position, from a head-to-head position.
		It's a weird thing, but it's the same position.
		It's still choking off the neck on one side with the forearm, and then with your own neck and your own body pressing against it on the other side.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And that element of wrestling, that was sort of a bulldog kind of wrestling kind of stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The Schultz headlock.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		And the weird...
		To either in the moment or have trained it, either one is amazing, to figure out that the angle of elevating your hips so high drove that extra thing.
		All those little elements made it beautiful.
		You have a black belt under Machado as well?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That's fucking crazy.
		Yeah, you have a gi black belt and a black belt in the air system.
		Well, I started training in 96. And so when you were training in 96, and guys would say, oh, there's a purple belt coming through town, everybody was blown away back then, right?
		Like, was that the level still?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, no, not in 96. Well, there was a few purple belts.
		I mean, I started out at Carlson Gracie's.
		I took one class at Hickson's.
		See, back then in 96, I didn't know that there was a difference between Carlson Gracie and Hickson Gracie.
		It was just Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
		And the only reason why I went from Carlson's to Hickson's is that Hickson's was all the way across town.
		Carlson's was much closer to me.
		It was like a 20-minute difference in the drive, so I just started going to Carlson's.
		And that was when Vitor had just made his debut against John Hess.
		And they were actually calling him Victor Gracie.
		And I even accidentally referred to him as Victor Gracie during one of the things that I did for the UFC in 1997. UFC 12, when I first started working for him.
		Babyface.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That's fucking...
		UFC 12, yeah.
		Think about that, man.
		How long have you been doing that?
		I've said this a few times.
		I don't know if...
		You probably don't realize it because when you're in stuff, you don't...
		Often people that are driven don't often pause to look and be proud of what they've done.
		Maybe, hopefully you do that, but...
		That you actually invented the idea of commentating this sport, which is very different than any other one.
		And there's so many things that people think are just terms, but they're terms that you said.
		Do you know what I mean?
		Things that you said that are common, descriptive things, they think they've always existed, but they didn't exist before you said them in a lot of cases.
		And that's really a wild thing, the influence in how people observe this great sport and how big an influence that is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I definitely don't think about it, but the difference between this sport and a lot of other sports is that this sport, the play-by-play guy is not the play-by-play guy.
		The color guy is the guy who's the expert, the martial arts expert, essentially has to be the play-by-play guy as well because he has to break down the subtle nuances of positions to people that are watching at home, especially when it comes to the ground.
		There's a big issue with explaining jujitsu to people that don't know jujitsu so they can enjoy it.
		Because if someone doesn't know, like, why is that guy hurting?
		What's going on there?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		UFC 1. What happened there?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Especially when it comes to the ground game, there's a bunch of positions that need to be illuminated.
		So, when fights are happening, I'm calling...
		Like, I'm doing a play-by-play slash color job.
		Like, I'm giving...
		Like, if you watch boxing, the color guy will say, you know, they'll sort of, like...
		Give you an overall assessment of what's going on.
		But Jim Lampley, who's the play-by-play guy, will explain the shots that are landing and this and that that's going on.
		And then the caller guy will say, well, he needs to do that or he needs to do this.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He says the what and he says the how and the why.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And when I worked with Morrow, I did a few dozen shows with Morrow, and he explains to you that in his case, he knows it, so he will do the what.
unidentified		Yes.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And your job is the how and the why.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		So when you do color with Mauro, he does it old school, which is why he's so natural at boxing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You know, he transitioned into boxing so naturally because he was an actual play-by-play guy.
		But the odd thing, and I'm a fucking full-on Mauro fan, and he had a huge influence in helping with a lot of stuff.
		But because if you're a play-by-play guy and you're not really obsessed, if you're not deep into it, you will start to get certain things where you are missing out on stuff.
		So he might say, you know, he's on his back.
		Why doesn't he put the hooks in?
		Well, he wants to ride heavy on the hip.
		He doesn't want the hooks.
		He wants to ride, you know.
		And so you start to sort of project what you think is next.
		And that's why when you do color, you're saying what is happening and what might happen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a difference between Morrow doesn't train.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's not a black belt.
		You have to be.
		I really believe that you have...
		Well, I don't know if you have to be a black belt, but you have to be a high-level grappler to understand the nuances.
		And I think you also should have some competition in your life.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Some form of it where you understand the psychology behind competing, rising to the occasion.
		What's going on in that moment when you see a guy who's breaking.
		You know, you can learn a lot by watching, but I think doing is really important and critical when it comes to breaking down jujitsu.
		I've seen, like I was watching a Pride the other day, and someone, one of the guys, it wasn't boss, it was whoever he was doing it with, I think it was Quadros.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's a guy who doesn't grapple.
		He doesn't understand.
		And he's just going on his limited book of knowledge.
		But it's not based on...
		It's not an extensive, comprehensive encyclopedia of training and knowledge and of being obsessed with combat sports.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Chevello I worked with too, and fuck is that guy fun.
unidentified		He's great.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He's so fucking fun to work with.
unidentified		He's a great dude too.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He's such a good dude and he's having so much fun.
		And trust me, if Mauro hears me talking about him and he thinks I'm being critical, it will hurt him.
		He's a fucking very tender dude.
		But I'm not.
		I think Mauro's a fucking genius.
		I think he's killing boxing.
		I think he's absolutely killing it.
		He's amazing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's great at glory too.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He's a good dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I like Mauro.
		He really does love fighting.
		What we're saying is just there's a reality of the difference between a play-by-play guy and the color expert position.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that's why he's such a good play-by-play guy.
		And you're right, the expert color is what's really going on.
		If you were in this place, what would it feel like?
		I think that guy on the couch, he doesn't know what it feels like.
		You can just have a guy drive his shoulder under your face to turn you sideways.
		He doesn't know what that feels like.
		It's fucking terrible.
		And you've got to take care of that before you take care of any other thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And there's certain positions like the Von Flu choke.
		Remember when OSP fought Nikita Krylov?
		And he choked him out with that Von Flu choke.
		And a lot of people didn't even know what the fuck was going on.
		But because I've been around for so long, I've seen that choke before.
		I remember when Von Flu started doing it on people.
unidentified		Amazing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then we started trying it out in the gym.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Oh, that's so cool, man.
		It's a weird technique.
		Seeing history like that.
		Because at like...
		There's a big difference between later going, what was that?
		Oh, it's a Von Flu choke and going, oh yeah, I remember when Von Flu was in the gym doing it.
		That's fucking cool.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was also a scene recently where someone was trying this old Bas Rutten neck crank.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bas Rutten has this fireman's neck crank that he would do.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Side on?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's like from almost like he has a head on one side and the leg on the other side and tries to connect the two of them together.
		And Boss used to tap guys with that.
		Boss is a fucking physical beast.
		You know, he's such a specimen.
		But somebody tried it in a recent MMA fight and I remember in the middle of the fight going, whoa, whoa, whoa, I've seen this before.
		What fucking choke?
		It's like you never see that technique.
		But then all of a sudden it's there.
		It didn't work, but it could, you know?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		When I was talking about Pancrase, Boss was the other guy that it was like, he's walking in the ring, and you looked at that, and you didn't want to be in there with this guy.
		You see the Boss in Pancrase, that would have been as terrifying a human being as anybody had ever seen.
		The intensity, that's what I thought about him and Evan Tanner.
		These guys were kind of competing, and then him and Evan Tanner came in there and they just It went crazy.
		Like, they just put it on people.
		Like, they put a level of hurt on people that would have been terrifying had you never seen that before.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, Boss was the first, like, really high-level striker in MMA. I feel like Boss was the first guy, if you watch his pank race fights, he was blasting guys with kicks.
		Like, he hadn't seen anybody kick that hard before.
		It was more about jiu-jitsu before then.
		I mean, you had, like, Orlando Veet, who was, like, a high-level kickboxer, was in the early UFCs, but he was only, like, 165 pounds or something like that.
		He was a small guy, and he got manhandled by grapplers, you know?
		He fought, um, what was his fucking name?
		The big judo black belt guy.
		His name escapes me.
		He wound up fighting, the same guy wound up fighting Marco Huas, and Marco Huas mounted him, and he tapped when Marco Huas mounted him.
unidentified		Yeah, right.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But fear, tapped from fear.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was also because he thought that the position was lost.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, once a guy got you into that position.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's over.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And for him, it probably was.
		For him, it probably was.
		He probably didn't have an answer for that.
		So it's like, I can tap now, or I can tap after you hit me six times, or I can tap after you hit me 20 times, or I can go unconscious.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		There was a lot of shit back then, too, where people didn't know that you could get out of positions.
		And they thought that when you got into a position, that was it.
		It was over, you know?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It must have been a wild time in the 90s to be trained in that.
		Because it was foreign to people.
		If you told somebody you were trained in jiu-jitsu, did they know what the hell you were talking about?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, they didn't know what it was.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Remco Pardew was the big name.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I think we might have called that one recently.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Remember he fought Orlando V and got him in side control and blasted him with elbows?
		He was in that judo side control, like holding the head there and just boom, elbowed him unconscious.
		Yeah.
		That was fascinating, man.
		Yeah, Pardieu.
		Fascinating, fascinating.
		Just watching those guys, like, watching that sport evolve like that to, like, the beginnings were just people trying their style out and finding out that it didn't work at all.
		Like, remember there was that ninja guy who fought Pat Smith?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and doing, like, those instep kicks, which kind of, Jon Jones kind of brought back.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Like, if you have enough reach, and you know what I mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But you gotta have all that other stuff, too.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Of course, of course, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, these guys thought they were gonna kick you once and take your knee out.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Smoke bomb, and then, you know...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of people that say that.
		You know, hey man, if we fought, I'll just kick somebody in the knee and take him out.
		Like, yeah, okay, really?
		You really think that it works that way?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Because you know the guy tries to not have you kick him in the knee.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not only that, he might see you winding up and going towards his knee.
		What was this motherfucker doing?
		Move his knee out of the way.
		And then you're missing things.
		Then you're all confused.
		Your go-to move didn't work.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that's sort of the thing.
		You've seen it, definitely.
		A guy goes in, you know, at the low levels kind of where I get to compete and call fights and stuff sometimes.
		Brand new guys sometimes go in, their first thing in their mind, this was going to knock a guy out.
		The second that doesn't happen, they just didn't really think past that.
		Now it's a scary and horrifying place to be.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I remember Pat Smith fought recently in Glory, and one of the things that really troubled me before his fight, he said, I'm a one-round fighter.
		I fight for one round.
		I'm there to win or lose, but it's all going out in one round.
		And I'm like, you can't say that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That guy's only job is to survive one round, and he's got it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, not only that, it's a crazy way of thinking.
		This fight's scheduled for three rounds.
		If the guy's exactly the skill level of you, it's going to take some time, man.
		I don't know why he decides to do that.
		I mean, he's one of those guys that really likes to put on a show, really likes to have an exciting fight.
		And that's one of the things we were talking about earlier is these guys that sort of sacrifice technical style fighting in order to make things more exciting.
		But in the long run, that's not good.
		It's not good for you.
		It's not good.
		It's just not the way to do it.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it changes things.
		That idea that we're...
		The whole thing is going on to try to figure out who's the best.
		Not to figure out who's close to the best but the most exciting.
		If we all agree that takedown defense is going to be the most important thing for the next two years, who gets good at that and landing right hands?
		It's not a worldwide game to figure out who's the most exciting.
		It's to figure out who's the baddest dude on the planet, who's the best fighter in the world.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		And the only way you find that is guys competing at their very best, like using all of your, like if guys played chess and they just said, you know, fuck all this strategy and shit, I'm just going to get gangster with my rook.
		You know, I mean, that's really essentially the same sort of decision making.
		It doesn't work that way.
		It's all about using all of your talents, your mental talents, your emotional control, your endurance, all of those things.
		Knowing when to push, when to back off, managing your energy during a fight.
		That's a huge aspect of it as well.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Managing your energy is absolutely critical.
		Managing, like, when do you pour it on?
		When do you back off?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Do you have that under control?
		Like, is that taking care of itself out of stress or out of fear or out of danger or because he pushed you?
		I mean, you talked about one-rounders.
		Kevin Randleman was, like, going to fight you for three minutes.
		It was going to be the worst hell of three minutes that you've ever had in your life, but if you could get past it, you've got a chance of beating him now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a lot of those fast twitch muscle fiber guys.
		They have a lot of fucking explosion in the beginning, but they just slowly wear themselves out and then there's nothing left at the end.
		Tyron Woodley is a great example of that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He hates it when you talk about that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Tough shit.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's important, it's my job, and I'm a fan of his, and I think that he's too big.
		I think he carries too much weight.
		I mean, the guy's got, he's got a, essentially, he's running a race that's an endurance race, and he's got this monster truck engine.
		And he, you know, he's getting two miles to the gallon, but for that first two miles, he's a motherfucker.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, I mean, Tyron is one of the best athletes in MMA. His wrestling, his physical strength.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		His blitzes.
		Those blitzes.
		Remember what he did, too?
		What's his name?
		The thoroughbred?
		Jay Huron.
		Jay Huron?
unidentified		Fuck.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And even Carlos Condit in the beginning.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You know, Condit.
		Like, until that leg went, you were like, how the fuck?
		Fuck, did he survive that blitz?
		That was crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, his lead right hand is so fast.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's so fast.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		So explosive.
		Travel's good.
		We talk about Hendrix and how he can close distance.
		This guy even more so.
		Yeah.
		But what some, I think, athletic guys will try to do is make it not an endurance sport.
		They'll make it a sport of sprints and comms and sprints and comms and sprints and comms.
		And that would be the way to try to...
		Be that athlete.
		We haven't seen anyone make that work, but I think that's what guys are trying to do, is everything is a 30-second on and a 20-second recovery, and fight that way, and train that way, and train to recover that way.
		But I can't think of anybody we've seen sort of make that really work yet, but I think that's how that level of athlete's trying to do it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well it's also, Chael Sonnen had a comment on MMA and about just the physical demands of the body.
		He's like, the reality is that 25 minutes is too long.
		He's like, it's too long to fight.
		He goes, you can't fight at your best for 25 minutes.
		So it all becomes about managing when you explode, when you go after the guy, when you...
		You know, and for Chael to say that, especially, I mean, you think about his fight with Anderson Silva, was a crazy endurance test.
		I mean, he just went after Anderson in that first fight for four and a half rounds, just full clip, took him down at will, just pushed the pace constantly.
		Most likely he was on EPO at the time.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		At least we knew he was later.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And still, you know, that's his thoughts, is that it's just too long.
		It's just too long.
		Except for a guy like Mighty Mouse.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which is crazy.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Why is that?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		130 pounds.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A 125 pound guy does not have the same requirements when it comes to gravity and there's nothing pulling on him.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That book I was telling you about that I'm in the process of reading, Rise of Superman, they talk about how some of these guys in these states, a lot of the analysis is guys in skateboards, the guy in the skateboard who jumped over the Great Wall of China, and guys who are flipping and downhill skiing and stuff, that they start to believe that gravity applies to them differently.
		You know what I mean?
		They start to take action as if gravity does not apply to them the same way.
		I mean, look at this guy who jumps the fucking Great Wall of China on a skateboard.
		Part of his belief when he's in a state to try this is he has to suspend reality to even fucking give that a go.
		Because any normal person looks at that and go, there's no fucking way I can jump the Great Wall of China on a skateboard.
		But this guy has to put himself into a state where that truth becomes not true.
		Yeah, fucked up, right?
unidentified		That's so strange.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I know, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How does that work?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's so crazy.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But this guy, you'll like the book a lot, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know I will.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		The guy compares certain psychedelic trips.
		He looks at how that also alters the brain chemistry and those times where people are at one with something where they've actually, in some ways, reality is just that thing we each have.
		And yours is different now.
		Yours is different in the moments where you bring this brain chemistry together in a state of flow.
		And when you're in that state, your reality is different.
		And if your reality is different, maybe the fuck you can jump the Great Wall of China.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it kind of makes sense, right?
		Because isn't reality in a sense subjective in that like how you feel about a moment changes what that moment means to you.
		So it changes your reaction to that moment.
		And I think that those guys that do that parkour, those guys have to be like that too.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That is exactly right.
unidentified		I'm fascinated by that shit.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		How the fuck do you think you can do that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Those guys are nuts, man.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But they, I mean, you hesitate for one second, you die.
		And that's the same with those flippin' motorcycles, same with free climbing, fuckin' mount, whatever.
		You create a state where if you do not believe for one moment, you're dead.
		Not, well, shit, I lost a fight.
		Or, oh, man, that cost me some money.
		Death.
		Death.
		And these guys, you know, and some of them will say, I could spend months learning how to spend 20 minutes of yoga to get a taste of that state for a second, or I can put myself on a rock face and have it for three hours out of necessity.
		And that's what some fighters are doing.
		I mean, all the top guys are operating in that state.
unidentified		All of them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the rock face thing is really interesting, isn't it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When you see those fucking Alex Honnold crazy fuckers and they climb up these things free climbing.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's almost like a different animal.
		Like, human animals walk around.
		Sometimes we swim and stuff.
		We don't do that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he does, but he's a human.
		I mean, it's essentially like putting your focus into something and taking that something, whatever it is, to the highest level that's possible.
		And the mind is a big part of it.
		He was talking about how when you're rock climbing, I had him on the podcast, he was talking about rock climbing that when you're doing it, you're really pretty chill.
		He goes, you don't really feel crazy unless something's really wrong.
		He goes, most of the time everything is really calm and really chill and you just sort of zen and you're just, this is what you're doing and you're just going through it and you're...
		Putting the powder in your hands, you're sticking your hands in cracks, and you're just pulling yourself up.
		He goes, then you kind of get to the top.
		Yeah, for hours.
		Yeah.
		And doing shit that, in his case, doing shit that no one else does.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Jumping over and grabbing something with a finger and stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think they do that too much.
		They try to just crawl.
		I think the jumping up guys are fucking nuts.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's all levels of nuts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There was a piece that they did in one of those television shows where they talked about Alex where this guy who was also a free climber was like, look, it's not a matter of if he's going to fall.
		It's a matter of when he's going to fall and he's going to die when he does.
		And, you know, this guy's kind of freaking the fuck out.
		But then he talked to Alex about it.
		He's like, man, maybe not.
		I don't know if he's going to fall.
		This motherfucker might just keep doing that.
		I mean, he's a guy, Alex Honnold, that's what he does.
		He lives in his van.
		I mean, he's got a van with all these drawers in it.
		This is where I put my toiletries.
		This is where I put my underwear.
		He has a bed in the back of it.
		He sleeps in the bed.
		And then he just climbs everywhere.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		The guys who get to that point of human performance, there's a level.
		It's so weird we discourage obsessive compulsiveness.
		We discourage it.
		I'm sure there are damaging things about it.
		But I mean, you tell me that fucking guy isn't the extremist version of that.
		And yet it's been focused in a way that stretches human performance.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		I think obsessive compulsive is almost the only way to achieve greatness.
		I don't think there's any other way.
		I don't think you can be like this really relaxed, like, hey, easy come, easy go, you know, no big deal.
		No, you have to be a fucking maniac.
		It's all about how much focus you have on that goal, how much intent you have on that action.
		And if you're not completely obsessed, I've always said that greatness and madness are next door neighbors and they borrow each other's sugar.
		Because you don't get there without the other.
		I know when I was competing, when I was at my best...
		When I was four-time state champion in Taekwondo and I won the US Open in a bunch of other tournaments, I was crazy.
		That's all I did.
		I would train in the middle of the night because I knew that no one else was training.
		I used to have the keys to the gym.
		So I used to go to the Dojangs, what the Koreans call it.
		I used to go there Two o'clock in the morning, because I had the keys, and I would train knowing that no one else was training.
		And I felt like I had an edge that way.
		I'd seen Mike Tyson talk about how he would run when everyone was asleep, because he felt like his opponent was sleeping, so that gave him an edge.
		So, you know, I would like that.
		And that kind of insanity, like, I didn't have anything else going on in my life.
		Everything else I was a loser in.
		But I knew I was really good at Taekwondo.
		So that was what I... I sucked at relationships.
		I sucked at work.
		I sucked at school.
		I sucked at everything except Taekwondo.
		So that became 100% of my focus.
		And I know I was insane at that time.
		I know there was something wrong with me.
		It was a terrible way to live your life unless that's your only goal.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		The scary thing is, let's say there's, you know, 10,000 guys who are living that way.
		Anything.
		Comedy, fighting, anything.
		Only one of them is actually.
		We're going to get the 10,000 most obsessed, and we're going to find out who the very best most obsessed.
		You know what I mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The genetics and the obsession must come together in the perfect storm.
		Because if you're competing and you have the same amount of obsession as some Jon Jones character, Fuck, that guy's just too goddamn strong, too big.
		You see guys get in there with John, and then when John locks up with him and then sends him flying through the air, they realize, oh, there's another level to this thing.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		When he almost took off Teixeira's arm, that must have been fucking terrifying.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He's been in there with Chuck Liddell and every great fighter at 205 pounds over the last 10 years of not losing and training every day, and this guy does this to him?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Tears his shoulder apart in the first round with some new move that he had been thinking about doing.
		John had just been thinking about it.
		John is so brilliant in his ability to improvise in the heat of battle.
		Like, he saw that Glover was loading up, so he decided to stand, like, right on top of him, and then he would anticipate, he would feel him loading up, and then avoid those shots and counter with elbows in tight.
		And he was fucking Glover up in the place where Glover thought that he was going to dominate.
unidentified		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And he went in there, and the things that he never even planned to use, but a lifetime of Greco-Roman playing in there, I thought, oh, shit, I win this position.
		Fuck it.
		We're going to win it here, then.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that loose underhook, that was what allowed him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Glover had this loose underhook, so John just wrenched it, just yanked on it with the overhook, and tore his shoulder up, man.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And it must have been mentally freaky, too.
		It's like, what the hell am I in here with?
		I thought I was just in here with a guy with punches and kicks and chokes, like the rest of us.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		What is he doing?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He's tearing off part of my body.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		John is always adding new wrinkles.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		John is one of the first guys to really get good at that front leg side kick to the thigh.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		On a downward angle, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because he's so tall.
		Also, he's shooting down at your knee.
		John dropped Vitor with a front leg side kick to the body.
		Those long legs, man, are such a huge advantage.
		We only measure reach with arms.
		In MMA, because we have this goofy system where all we do is copy boxing because it's such a young sport.
		We copy boxing when it comes to reach.
		We copy boxing when it comes to the 10-point must-scoring system.
		Both things are woefully inadequate when it comes to MMA. But a big one is the reach of kicks.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because John can kick you from a range where you can't even touch him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he's hitting you with his best weapon.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		From an outside distance that he owns.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And your only way to get past that is to go through that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Mm-hmm.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Come on.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's barely fair.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And his legs are so much stronger.
		Everybody kicks harder than they punch.
		Everybody does.
		And John's an excellent kicker.
		So he's out there kicking the shit out of you, and you can't even touch him.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And what are you going to start doing?
		You're going to start doing what Rashad did.
		Try to clear out of that range.
unidentified		Yep.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I mean...
		The way to handle it, if it's humanly, mentally possible, is to pass it and get in there.
		But he's training you.
		The way you touch an element, you never touch it again, he's doing that with his fucking kick in front of you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Also, I think it's fascinating that John is now at this level where he's been the champion for several years now, and he's very confident.
		And he's also used to these championship contests.
		He's used to the bright lights.
		He's used to the big event.
		It becomes a part of his every...
		He understands that experience very intimately.
		So, when he gets in there, he's championship fights with a guy like Glover.
		This is the big show for Glover.
		Holy shit, this is it.
		And for John, like, here we go again.
		And here we go again is very different than, oh my god, this is it.
		Here we go again is a much more comfortable place.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Because every other time I've been in this place, I won.
		People went crazy, I made a bunch of money, and I got even bigger.
		Oh, I'm in this place again.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I love his attitude after the Gustafson fight.
		His attitude was, I've always been asking for a dog fight, and I got what I asked for.
		And this is a blessing.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And you know it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It is a blessing.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You don't know.
		If you're just wrecking every guy, well, what happens to one day where I can't wreck you for four rounds?
		Well, now he knows.
		He knows what happens.
		He fucking wins.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He dug deep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		One of the most important aspects of that fight is that he faced a guy, first of all, with the same sort of physical advantages that he has, a guy with a really long reach, a guy who was an excellent striker, a better, smoother, more efficient striker than he is.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Who took him down, added confusion to the equation.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yup, did something unpredictable, and then on top of that he still won.
		You know, and then, man, I was really looking forward to that rematch.
		It was a bummer when Gustafson hurt his knee.
		But what's interesting is Gustafson hurt his knee, they cancel the fight, but now John hurt his knee, but the Cormier fight is still on.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it's run by commerce.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we have to.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		We're in the business.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't own the UFC. What's the bigger fight, though, in your opinion?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm more interested.
		They're both pretty fucking good.
		They're both pretty fucking good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think they're both tens.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Cormier is so fascinating because we haven't seen it.
		You know, you see, all you got to do is flash up what he did to Dan Henderson, throwing him up in the air.
		No one's ever done that to Dan Henderson.
		And then you got all this heat that gets regular people excited.
		But, I mean, what happens when a guy got that close, and Gustafson's confident, he believes he's going to win this time.
		He thinks he's learned some things.
		Like, that's real.
		You got to do them both.
		But I think you got to do the one...
		That the people are most excited about, which is the one where guys fight on a stage and then say they're going to kill each other off.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Now it's more exciting.
		It's almost like when Daniel Cormier grabbed John's neck and threw him back, he ensured that that fight was going to take place.
		Because if Gustafson got knee surgery and John...
		We can't fight until January.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Well, in theory, we should go back to that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in theory, that should be the fight.
		But everyone is so hyped up on the Cormier fight now.
		But, you know, Cormier went into that fight, like he agreed to that fight with a pre-existing injury that he was pretty vocal about.
		He has a partially torn ACL. He's got an MCL strain or a tear in his MCL. And now he has more of an opportunity to rehab it.
		But when you have a partially torn ligament, like especially an ACL ligament, I don't know how much rehab you can do.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, you either get the surgery or you live with it in that whatever 75% state it's in until you get the surgery.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it's a 50% state.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it's 50% torn.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		All three of those guys, it's knee issues.
		I don't know if that's a 205 thing, it's a height thing, it's a high impact.
		It's a wrestling thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a wrestling thing.
		Wrestling and jujitsu and, well, I mean, even kickboxing, you're going to have knee issues.
		But just the knee sucks.
		It's a shitty design.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Shoulders suck too.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Shoulders suck too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not that they suck.
		It's that the human body is not designed for MMA. Not for that.
		Especially not for jiu-jitsu.
		I mean, jiu-jitsu is all about testing the boundaries of your joints.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, omoplata guys over there.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Shit ain't supposed to do that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's awful.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's not supposed to do that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And there's a few guys like Keenan Cornelius that have just unbelievably ridiculous flexibility of their joints.
		Like, what is that from?
		Is that from straining them all the time and testing them in the gym?
unidentified		Pushing it.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Like, you know, pushing the limit.
		Yeah.
		Like...
		In theory, how do you stretch your neck?
		You add those circles or you stretch your lip or whatever?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Can we do that with ligaments and soft tissue?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I guess they can, but look at Hoyler Gracie when he fought Eddie.
		I'm going to tell you something.
		I've been in that position before.
		When Eddie had that leg and he was twisting Hoyler's leg like that, that's called a vaporizer.
		It is an unbelievably painful position.
		I do not know how Hoyler didn't tap.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, mental.
		I don't think that was some biological thing he's altered.
		I think that was a guy just saying, my life depends on his reputation, who he is as a person, his business.
		All of those things depended so heavily on him not giving in to pain.
		And I think he was capable of doing that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But he has a history of having incredibly flexible joints.
		Like when he fought Sakuraba, Sakuraba had him in that deep, deep Kimura and the referee stopped the fight and he was furious.
		He's like, I'm fine.
		He had his arm cranked up behind his back.
		You know, first of all, it's crazy when you think of the fact that Hoyler Gracie fought Sakuraba and Sakuraba fought Vitor Belfort and Vanderlei Soba.
		Like, think about the difference in size between those guys.
		I mean, incredible.
		I mean, just unbelievable.
		He won the fucking Abu Dhabis at 145. You know, how the fuck?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And fought those giants, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How the fuck?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That was another time.
		I love hearing stories from guys that were around in the early days when they're like, yeah, we drove nine hours because they said we were going to have an MMA fight and we got there and they said, well, your opponent's not here.
		You got this guy.
		And it's like, I weigh 140. He's 175. They're like, close enough.
		Fight him.
		You know, that's how it was.
		And, well, who is that guy?
		Where does he train?
unidentified		I don't know.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		He just got out of prison.
		Or do you want the bouncer?
		I mean, and that's who you fought.
		And these lunatics on the front end of the sport were driving around for $100, spending $300 to get there, not knowing.
		I mean, you didn't know if a guy knew the death touch or something.
		You didn't.
		You didn't know if there was some other thing he could do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, people believed in the death touch back then.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		What if they knew it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's people still teaching that stupid shit.
unidentified		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And there's people out there that are also still teaching, you know, what we do works on the streets.
		The streets are very different.
		What you do is a sport.
		That nonsense drives me fucking bananas.
		I was on the Opie and Anthony show and they used to have this guy that did their security.
		He was this fucking fake karate guy.
		And he would always talk about street techniques.
		What we're doing is all about street defense.
		And I go, let me tell you something, dude.
		What works on train killers is the best shit.
		All this nonsense about street techniques, like you're going to do that and do this and that's going to work better and you're going to fucking death touch somebody in their solar plexus and go after their pressure points.
		Bullshit.
		It's all nonsense, you know?
		And if you try to bite somebody, let me tell you something.
		If a guy gets on top of you and mounts you and you just bit him, he's gonna fucking kill you.
unidentified		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's gonna take your eyes out.
		He's gonna kill you.
		He's gonna break your jaw.
		He's gonna tear your arms out of their sockets and leave you a cripple.
		And a guy could do that.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And if you get all this street shit in your head...
robin black ▲ ● ▼		It's dangerous.
		But if...
		You train Systema or Krav Maga or whatever, and you're up against some dumbass, it'll be valuable.
unidentified		Sure.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But if you're up against a trained fighter, you're going to be in a lot of trouble.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But you should always prepare for a trained fighter.
		And that's the difference between, like, the street systems versus real MMA. Like, real MMA is the stuff that works.
		It's the best application the human body has when it comes to using your body in a combat sports scenario.
		It's the best.
		That's the reason why you don't see Kung Fu in MMA. I mean...
		Roy Nelson jokingly calls himself a kung fu fighter, and I know he has actually done some kung fu training, but the reality is Roy's throwing a fucking heavy overhand right, and he's got a black belt in jiu-jitsu to back it up.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		And if, I mean, hey, if for whatever reason you like wearing a kung fu outfit and doing all this stuff, it makes you feel good, fuck it, go train it, for sure.
		But don't try to tell professional athletes and people who analyze it all day every day that this thing is going to be the thing.
		Because why the fuck isn't George St. Pierre using it?
		George used to – he told me one time that he just – he said it.
		I'm sure it happens to you a lot too.
		That people will come up to him and say, hey, George, you do really good, man.
		Hey, we should train together.
		I have Kung Fu Studio down the street.
		And they would literally, I could teach you some shit.
		And really, literally believe that when they're talking to the greatest fighter in the world at the time, that they got some secret shit back on St. Denis Street in Quebec, in Montreal, that he could teach George St. Pierre.
		This guy really fucking believes that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They really believe they got some death touch they're going to pull out.
		And George is going to go...
		This is going to change my whole career!
		Thank you for teaching me Death Touch!
robin black ▲ ● ▼		That shit's gotta happen to you, too, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Well, there's always some guy that says that he has some new thing that no one's ever seen before.
		He has his master can't be defeated.
		There's a bunch of knuckleheads out there, man.
		But George is an amazingly patient guy.
		I've seen George deal with a lot of fucking people.
		He's one of the nicest guys that's ever reached a super high level of any combat sport.
		And really open-minded.
		Like, he'll listen to it.
		I've seen him exchange techniques with people.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I've trained with him.
		I saw him training sidekick with him, and he had his knee low.
		He was using his knee low.
		And without question, he trained fucking taekwondo for 10 years, competing all over.
		That's how you do a turning sidekick.
		And he got, and he understood that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that was a weird moment because John Donaher, who's a friend of mine, was talking, and we were out to eat after a fight, me, him, and Eddie, and he said, do you guys know any good Taekwondo guys?
		George wants to work on the mechanics of his spinning back kick.
		And I said, this is going to sound so stupid, but I have to say it, I have a great spinning back kick.
		My spinning back kick, I really know how to do it better than anybody.
		And you say that, and people go, get the fuck out of here.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Lifetime martial arts expert.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I mean, why the fuck can't you say that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's still because I'm a comedian and a fucking commentator.
		I'm not a fighter.
		I mean, those days are long gone.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that doesn't mean that a lifetime mastery of a technique isn't, you know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's true, but so many people have ridiculous egos.
		And I'm not going to name any names, but I know a lot of guys that are involved in the same sort of thing that I'm involved in.
		They'll tell you that they're great.
		And then you train with him, you're like, oh fucking Christ, I'm wasting my time.
		So I had this moment where I was like, tell George if he wants to train.
		And then Eddie told him like, dude, seriously, you got to see this guy kick.
		And I'm like, this sounds so stupid.
		Like no one's going to believe me.
		And so then George showed up.
		So I was hoping, you know, when George showed up, like that he wasn't like, okay, come on, show me.
		You know, this is stupid.
		Why am I wasting my time?
		Well, once I kicked the bag once.
		And then he went, oh, shit.
		Like, this is real.
		And then you could see, like, he got this, like, I'm actually going to get something out of this.
		As opposed to, like, I'm just being nice to Joe because we're friends and I'm going to go humor him and, you know, he's going to throw some pussy-ass kicks.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But when he saw me kick a bag, you know, when you kick a 200-pound bag and it goes flying, and then it puts it in your head, you go, oh, I get it.
		I get it now.
		But it was his open-mindedness was so impressive, because I wouldn't have listened to me.
		I would have been like, bitch, get the fuck out of here.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Like, George is going to give you advice on your job.
unidentified		Exactly.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, if you have an open mind.
		But when I did that TV show where I was learning to fight, I trained with George.
		And we'd use that on the show.
		And I was terrible.
		Like, I mean, I literally was trying to take, doing Taekwondo growing up.
		An ad, kind of boxing my head.
		Like, I'm fucking horrible.
		And I'd never wrestled a day in my life.
		I was doing jujitsu like 10 times a week for whatever number of months.
		Never.
		And that will forever.
		People will just put that on and go, oh, fuck, this guy's terrible.
		And it is bad.
		But, I mean, what the fuck?
		You're doing a TV show about taking some guy who wears eye makeup and trying to teach him to fight.
		He happens to be there with George.
		Of course, he's terrible.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a beautiful thing about martial arts or any difficult endeavor is that you start off, everybody starts off, they suck.
		If you don't have those techniques, you don't know what you're doing, you're not going to be good.
		And then as you train, you get better.
		And when you get better, it's like you go down a path.
		And then you can stop and pause and look back and go, look where I started.
		I started way back there.
		And now here I am, I'm getting better.
		And then you turn around and go, but look how far I got to go.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And that's exciting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that's the beautiful thing about martial arts is that there are so many levels.
		And when we're seeing in mixed martial arts, it's like the jujitsu is still at a fairly low level.
		I think the jujitsu is still like purple belt level at even like a high level.
		It's not like Marcelo Garcia, like high level black belt.
		The striking is still at a fairly low level.
		We're not seeing Ernesto Hust yet.
		We're not seeing these like ridiculously technical, absolutely perfect executions of striking technique.
		We're getting closer...
		We're getting closer with the jiu-jitsu, we're getting closer with the striking, but there's room to grow.
		And that's one of the reasons why we're seeing new techniques now.
		Like, how many people are throwing wheel kicks now?
		There was no wheel kicks up until Terry Adam fought Edson Barboza.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		This has been seen before.
		When Tony Hawk did the four things, within a year, 10 guys could do it.
		And did it in training.
		The quad and figure skating, nobody could do it.
		Now, fucking college level figure skaters do the quad.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Four minute miles.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		When it happens once, suddenly it's now real humans do this.
		Just because that guy did it, not every guy thinks he can do it, but some guys think they Yeah, it's an amazing thing to watch the actual growth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I love it.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I'm so fascinated by it.
		Yeah, me too, man.
		Me too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's such a cool aspect of martial arts to be there while this is all going down and see this thing evolving and getting better.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Front kicks to the face now.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Same thing.
		All of a sudden, there's the quad and figure skating.
		They're all doing it.
		Front kicks in play for almost every good striker now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's in play for We're also seeing a lot of that sideways karate stance like Ryan Jimmo does and Gunnar Nelson does and Lyoto does.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That sideways karate stance is a totally different thing.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Some guys you see are using it.
		They grew up using it.
		And for a right-handed guy, whenever they switch the stance and the right foot in the front is when you're going to see it.
		You know what I mean?
		Yes.
		It's suddenly not as camouflaged anymore.
		Not only are guys using it, but it's like, oh shit, he's in that stance.
		I better watch out for the sidekick.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see a lot of front leg kicks off the dominant stance, the dominant leg.
		There's not a lot of guys who develop that powerful front leg left sidekick.
		They develop it off the right leg.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember when Chris Clements did a spinning thing on that?
		I broke that down.
		And the big question people had was, how did he know to do that?
		And when you look at it, you see Wonderboy, and he turns sideways, and Chris and me, and I froze it and said, look in here.
		Chris grew up doing taekwondo.
		Chris is a traditional martial artist as well.
		So he knows when this right leg comes forward and the stance is distributed this way, either a side kick is coming or a hook kick is coming.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Or a round kick, front leg round kick.
unidentified		The hip was flared enough that he was probably...
robin black ▲ ● ▼		The round kick wasn't as in play because of the position of how far his shoulder or hip was.
		So then we freeze it and say, that's what he knows.
		He knows from a lifetime that both of those are in play.
		Now let's watch.
		He throws the side kick and goes, freeze.
		Now, Chris in his mind would know if this still happens, the next option, since he's just given me a sidekick, his point is hoping to drop my hands and hook kick me in the head.
		When he saw that happen, there was a little flare of the hip and his brain goes, oh yeah, that's coming.
		And then he timed it on the hook kick.
		But it was his ability to kind of see the future.
		You know what I mean?
		Exactly.
		And we predict the future all the time.
		When you go to open a door handle, the reason if it was really hot or if it was spongy that you'd be surprised is because your brain was predicting what a door handle would feel like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that's what you were talking about earlier when it comes to pattern recognition.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a big thing with pattern recognition.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is.
		Yeah, and it's definitely what guys are playing with.
		Do you know Adam Zuchek?
		He trains Sarah Kaufman, but he's also kind of a secret weapon for Greg Jackson.
		He's up in Victoria, BC, and he sends guys up there to do certain things.
		He's very talented.
		And we were talking about after Sarah's fight, Kaufman's fight, her last one in Quebec City, she was throwing a lot of off-tempo things which he taught her because she's a dancer, right?
		So he can work footwork off time and different rhythms with her.
		But he was also talking about pattern recognition and how him and Greg Jackson, that's one of the things they're on heavy, is training you to expect certain patterns, chunking those patterns that your brain anticipates and then giving you a surprise.
		And that's on the front end of some of their thinking right now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that's so fascinating.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Fuck, yeah, man.
unidentified		So cool.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And what's so cool is when you have that many great minds doing it, now you've got one of these guys thinking that, but you've got Duane over here fucking thinking this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You've got Matt Humes over there, and there's all these different guys in there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Duke Rufus is in Wisconsin, and he's looking at it and trying to break it down.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		And then put them against each other, and the lessons that we learn there, everybody's going to go back in their labs and prepare for the next one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, amazing stuff.
		Dude, we're out of time, but this was a lot of fun.
		Thank you, Robin.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		A lot of fun, man.
		Hey, man, really thank you for having me.
		It's a real thrill, and thanks for digging my stuff, and thanks for sharing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hey, I appreciate that you're doing it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I really appreciate you doing the podcast, too, and we've got to do this again, man.
robin black ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to.
		How often are you in L.A.? My wife's working here right now, so I'm visiting a little bit.
		She's in theater.
		So not all that often, a couple times a year, but I'd love to.
		I'll come back.
		I'll bring some beer.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We'll do it again.
		We'll do it again for sure.
		Follow him, RobinBlackMMA, on Twitter.
		And where can people see the videos?
robin black ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, check out Fight Network.
		FightNetwork.com.
		We've got some stuff.
		But Fight Network is a 24-hour television station.
		It's in Canada.
		It's now in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Texas.
		And it's on Roku.
		And you can call up any cable provider and say, I want Fight Network.
		And it's a 24-hour fight channel.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Beautiful.
		All right.
		And thanks to our sponsor.
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		Alright, we'll be back in about 20 minutes with Scroobius Pip.
		Much love.
		See ya.
		Take care.

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