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Oct. 13, 2011 - The Joe Rogan Experience
01:58:38
JRE MMA Show #146 with Francis Ngannou
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francis ngannou
01:34:25
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joe rogan
20:34
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unidentified
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
joe rogan
What's up champ?
How are you?
francis ngannou
I'm good.
joe rogan
Good to see you.
francis ngannou
Good to see you again.
joe rogan
So you have been on a journey, my friend.
A lot of things have happened.
First of all, congratulations on securing this fight.
That is a big deal.
A lot of people doubted it was going to happen.
francis ngannou
You were right.
Thank you, thank you.
Yes, it was a big deal.
It wasn't easy, but we finally get it.
You know, I get the help of a lot of people, and the Saudis were very interesting about this fight.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was one of those fights where you had to take a big gamble by relinquishing your UFC crown.
francis ngannou
I didn't relinquish anything.
joe rogan
You didn't relinquish it.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, fill me in then.
Tell me what happened.
francis ngannou
Well, we didn't come to an agreement.
joe rogan
You didn't come to an agreement?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
So you decided, I'm not signing with the UFC. You're a free agent.
francis ngannou
Yes.
joe rogan
And then, did negotiations then start for the Tyson Fury fight?
How did it start?
francis ngannou
You know, it's been like four years since Tyson Fury and I, we've been going back and forth on social media.
So, there was a little bit of a warm-up somewhere there.
And...
It kind of takes a couple months before we get to a conversation.
It wasn't just easy.
There's boxing promotion.
The boxing world is a little wild.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a little different.
francis ngannou
It's completely different.
It's a different animal.
joe rogan
In what way?
Explain to us.
francis ngannou
The way that they do things, you know, it's this guy from this promotion fighting against this guy from this promotion who has a better position, who has what to lose, who is getting what, and then how they kind of like put things, I will not say manipulate, but a little bit like that.
Everybody trying to adjust things on its own benefit.
Look what is good for him, which is good, but yeah.
joe rogan
A lot of boxing fights don't get made.
They get talked about for a long time, like Tyson Fury and Usyk.
For a long time it was Terence Crawford and Earl Spence.
They get talked about for a long time.
And they almost get made, and then they don't get made.
And they almost get made, and then they don't get made.
francis ngannou
A lot of politics behind.
A lot of promotion that will be behind the fight just to, you know, push their position.
Everybody's pushing his position.
It's not mostly about the fight.
It's about like, okay, we control the game.
Do we have enough control here?
Do we control everything?
joe rogan
Yeah.
So was it frustrating for you?
Because I imagine there was a while where you weren't sure whether or not it was going to be made.
francis ngannou
It wasn't frustrating, you know, before I made my decision when I separated with the UFC and I knew, I mean, long time before, like, I remember even when I fought Syringham, even before that fight, I was telling myself, and I was even telling this on interview, like, okay, If this is the end, then he has to end my way.
Not because I was sure that it was going to happen.
I knew that it could have not happened, right?
But I was to be in peace with my decision.
So that's the thing about it.
And I'm very happy that it happened.
It makes it even better.
But I knew there was a risk that it didn't happen.
I had to take a chance.
joe rogan
So what was the holdup with the UFC? What led you to not sign?
francis ngannou
There was a lot of frustration over the years.
I think since my fight against Tipe, my first fight against Tipe, my relation with the UFC has never been the same.
joe rogan
Really?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
unidentified
Why?
joe rogan
In what way?
francis ngannou
I don't know.
I tried everything.
I felt like I wasn't in the right place.
And after that, then I get the Derek Lewis fight.
It was like the worst fight.
And that didn't help me at all, you know.
So I think from that moment I was already put in some position out there.
Because I came back, I won multiple fights, and they came with a new deal.
This was after Junior Dos Santos back in June 2017. And then He was a make who called for a new deal and then until my team was on the way to the negotiation, who was in Anaheim when Stipe and G.C. were fighting the second time, and then I'm like, no.
Then I said no, no new deal for Francis.
He still has three fights on his contract.
And to be honest, I was even happy because I wanted to knock that deal out.
By that time, I understood a little bit about the market.
I just wanted to find out my contract and renegotiate as free, you know.
But then...
A month after, we get a call from, I think, was Hunter or somebody there?
They say, oh, yeah, let's talk about a new deal for Francis.
And at that time, like, there's not a new deal.
We're all like, we just want to fight, you know.
It's already September or...
Yeah, we are in September, and my last fight was in June.
I won a fight.
So the New Deal staff be holding me back.
They didn't give me a fight.
joe rogan
Because they wanted you to sign a New Deal.
francis ngannou
They wanted me to sign a New Deal.
joe rogan
And you didn't want to sign a New Deal.
You wanted to fight your contract down.
francis ngannou
I wanted to fight my contract down.
joe rogan
So they were slowing things down.
francis ngannou
They were slowing things down.
So if you see like the interval between my Junior Dos Santos fight and Jardino Rosenstruck fight was almost a year.
I mean...
joe rogan
It's also COVID, right?
francis ngannou
Yeah, there was a COVID in between, but without COVID, it would still be like 10 months, right?
And then from Rosenstruck to Stipe...
Same thing.
Then Stipe to Sirungan, almost the same thing.
It was mostly about the contract.
joe rogan
So then finally you fight out the contract and then what happens?
francis ngannou
We didn't come to an agreement at all because during this time there was still a negotiation pushing and stuff and I wanted to fight out that contract.
Proposal of money, obviously they know my position because I was pressure financially.
You know, when you have a fight you expect to fight at least at that level.
At that moment I was expecting to fight at least two.
Or three times a year, right?
Then I get to the point that I have one fight, I have nothing.
So I was limited of income, stuff like that.
Then I started borrowing money.
Even before the Stipe fight, when they announced that fight, I need to call to ask for advance of my purse to finance my training camp.
I have no money.
But I was there training and getting ready for almost a year.
So I took some advance.
joe rogan
That's got to be very stressful.
francis ngannou
Yeah, but one thing, and that's like one thing that I'm always grateful about in my life.
I used to this situation, and I told myself, like, these people, they don't know me.
I can live out of nothing.
I live in the street, bro.
And then I'm here in Las Vegas, you think like, okay, I don't fight.
I just have to change everything I'm able to live out of the bare minimum.
And I don't care if I walk around, you guys say, oh, champ, oh, that's a UFC contender, whatever it is.
Man, I just live based on what is in my, uh, based on my asset.
I don't live beyond that.
That's why, like, I don't really trust those credit card systems or those loans and stuff.
That's America shit, bro.
unidentified
I don't.
francis ngannou
I don't trust that.
Because when he lets you down, he lets you down.
joe rogan
Yeah, for sure.
francis ngannou
I check my wallet, whatever is in my wallet, I leave based on that.
I don't go loan and stuff unless like I'm forced at some point or it's an investment like having taken the money, borrowing money for your training camp, you know?
joe rogan
Right.
francis ngannou
That's a different thing.
joe rogan
So you win the Sirogan fight, then what happens?
francis ngannou
Well, first dinner didn't come to the ring, to the octagon for the belt.
Yeah, and then after that, they get this dinner, invite us to this dinner, trying to smooth things out.
Again, the condition at that time, I think at that time, for me, it was more than a contract.
It was like a lot of frustration from the past almost three years, you know.
I'm like, okay, I have no guarantee that signing this contract, I will not get into what I have been to in the past three years.
So how about we change something that will make me feel secure?
joe rogan
And what did you want to change?
francis ngannou
A lot of things.
First of all, I want a contract without extension because I have seen how they can abuse of those extensions.
joe rogan
Can you explain to me how the extension works?
francis ngannou
Oh, well, I mean, there's not a way that he works.
The extension is that because they say if you deny a fight, they can extend you for six months or something.
If you're hurt and can't fight, they can extend you for six months or something.
But the problem, the UFC is the judge and the party.
They decide if...
They will extend you.
You have no say.
So when they say, oh, you fight tomorrow, you say, uh, no.
No, I'm like, okay, no problem.
We were just checking.
And then maybe a week after you will receive a letter of extension, like your contract has been extended for six months.
And that's what happened with me.
joe rogan
Even if you're injured, like say if they propose a fight for you, like here we are in September.
If they propose a fight for you in Madison Square Garden in November and you say, I can't because I'm injured.
francis ngannou
Oh no, that extension.
joe rogan
Then they put up a six month extension.
francis ngannou
Oh yeah, that's extension.
joe rogan
Anytime you refuse a fight?
Is that what it is?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
And refuse is subjective.
Right.
joe rogan
It could mean you can't fight because you're injured.
Like when you tore your knee ligaments.
francis ngannou
Oh no, that is an extension.
joe rogan
Extension?
francis ngannou
Yeah, that's clearly an extension.
For example, my extension, for example, the first one, when I forced Tipe, right?
And I have been fighting almost once a year in the past three years.
I forced Tipe on March 27th.
And then, April 2nd, Mick is calling my team.
And I tell them, like, oh, I want to fight, stay active.
I want to fight twice this year again.
Summer, which is July or August, and December.
And then, April 2nd, they are calling to ask me to fight and I was getting ready.
It was a big moment in my life.
I'm like, I'm bringing this trophy home.
You're the champ now.
Right.
And they called to ask me if I can fight on June 12th.
It was June 6th or something like that.
I'm like, bro, give me a time.
I mean, they said, no, we were just offering in case because Francis said he want to fight twice this year.
I'm like, yes, I do.
And I said, July the earliest and August, And December.
And I knew that I can take one, two, three weeks out, maybe go home, do stuff, and come back.
And I'm like, no, no, no.
Totally understandable.
He was just to check in case it worked for you.
He wasn't really...
Couple months after, I received an extension about that.
But you know why?
Because my contract originally supposed to end in May 20th of that year.
So, if my contract ends on May 20th of that year, that means the championship close kicks in, which is one year.
But...
If they extend me, I have to go all the way to the extension before the championship close kicks in.
So it was more time.
And when they say, no, it's okay.
No problem.
We were just checking.
And I was in Cameroon on May 19th.
So one day before my original contract, which was 14 months, expired, and then the championship kicked in, I received an extension letter.
I was in Cameroon suffering of COVID at that time.
So I received an extension letter.
So now I'm extended until November 28th.
joe rogan
Even though you told them you wanted to fight in July?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So they just tack on?
francis ngannou
Oh no, they just tacked on.
And you have nothing to say.
It's effective from the moment that they send that letter out.
joe rogan
Okay, so your new contract, you wanted no extensions.
That's one thing.
francis ngannou
Yeah, that's one thing.
joe rogan
Was one of them the ability to box?
francis ngannou
One of them was the ability to box.
They said that wasn't an option.
Boxing is dead.
It's not possible.
This and that.
joe rogan
Now what does that feel like to you knowing that Conor McGregor did it and fought Floyd Mayweather and made a hundred million dollars?
What is that like for you to be sitting there being told that you can't box?
francis ngannou
Well, I don't use to take what people tell me for an answer.
I used to do my own thing on my own way.
And it seems to work pretty good.
But I wasn't going to force to change everything.
I wasn't expecting to go there and demand this, demand that, and just have everything.
It's a big company.
It's like an institution.
So there's a way that they do things, and that can change.
So I'm like, okay, if so, let's take boxing out.
Why?
Because give me three fights, contract of three fights.
I knew that I can knock a three-fight contract in a year.
Then from that moment, I was free.
Because I want a middle ground, like an alternative, a way to get out by giving something out, you know, to get something at the end.
joe rogan
Got it.
francis ngannou
You know, because it's really hard to get in the negotiation and just like, oh, I want this, I want that, and I want that, and stop there.
At some point, you have to compromise to push back, give something in order to get something.
So stuff like that was the thing that I was about it.
And that seems to be attractive to them.
So, three fights there, no extension.
That seems to be attractive.
Two fights were supposed to be potentially Jon Jones, fight and rematch, and one fight is the trilogy with Stipe.
That was the request.
And work for both parties.
Then we get to another point.
Sponsorship deal.
Why sponsorship deal?
Because before that, I had a deal.
After the stupid fight, I had a deal on the table for over a million dollars for a cryptocurrency wallet.
So I was going to have, I think, 1.2 million, which is the money that I never had in the fight.
I was going to have that in the sponsorship.
And the deal was this close to sign.
And then they announced the crypto.com deal.
And then the party pulled off.
I'm like, bro, we can do.
You understand our position.
You can carry this in the octagon while behind.
We are trying to push.
joe rogan
Did you try to make a deal with crypto.com?
francis ngannou
No.
At that moment, crypto.com, they don't care.
They have a deal with the UFC. And you're going to wear it, whether you like it or not.
You don't have a say.
And now I'm like, I think this is messed up.
We need to sell this.
I need a sponsorship.
I need a right to have my own sponsor.
Fighters should be able to have two, three sponsorships on their gears.
I mean, I understand that we want to make this ball grow, make it nice.
We can also...
Meanwhile, you can have a department who checks all the sponsors.
Like, oh no, this is not good because of this reason.
It doesn't represent the sport well.
Right?
joe rogan
Right.
francis ngannou
But there are a lot of good staff out there that will also help fighters to provide, to get a little more money.
And that was another discussion.
I'm like, oh, you can't do that.
That's not work.
I'm like, okay.
So what is working exactly?
They make me some kind of like a proposal, which I don't know, it doesn't even make sense.
And the other one was because of the fact that I was in this position for so long and I was just so powerless.
The reason why I stay in this position, why I keep holding my ground, was only because in the contract there is what they call the sunset clause.
So, meaning, like, after five years, from the beginning, from the day you signed the contract, it doesn't matter what is in the contract, the contract expires.
They can extend you past that date.
So, my end goal from the beginning, from the moment that I know that, okay, I'm going to hold this ground, I know that I have to face some obstacles.
So my end goal was the five years, the sunset.
I had the sunset day in my mind, December 9, 2022. I had that day in my mind for like almost three years.
So when I was receiving all this extension letter, I mean, I couldn't fight it either way, but in my mind, I was just like, It's okay.
One thing that I know, just focus on December 9, 2022, and then you will be fine.
So, after that, then I'm like, okay, if I sign a new deal, I don't know, even if there's not extension, there have been a proof of like, How could I say it?
In a nice way.
Abuse of power, right?
But Why are we in this position?
This is the position that every fighter gets into, right?
I mean, be feeling powerless.
We might be many hundreds of us, but it's every individual at the time.
We are very separated.
Every case is separated.
So, which means you're just weak.
It's just you against the big monster, which is the company, the institution, so you can fight.
How can we make it make sense?
I mean, we are not going for union, but...
At least you guys sometime, before making some decisions, how about you have somebody in the room who can understand things from our perspective because I do believe that all the decisions that you might make who hurt us is not meant to hurt.
But maybe just because you don't understand our position.
Maybe if somebody is speaking for us, Again, I don't know who he could be, but just be mindful that, okay, this is fighter position.
Maybe that will help.
joe rogan
So you go through all this, and then where did it break down to the point where you had to walk away?
francis ngannou
He broke down December 6th, I think it was December...
No, December 28th.
I don't remember, 19 or 22nd, something like that.
I had a dinner with Hunter.
After we've been going through stuff, he said no to this, no to that.
But I have a focus.
I know that, okay, if I give three fights here, since they are willing to take the three fights, it's going to make...
I don't want to break this relationship like this.
I don't want it to be a war.
I can't stand.
I can't stand in this.
So we can get Trying to fix things up.
But when we met again, that day was the first time over all this time that we have to talk about the financial aspect.
I mean, he has to propose a financial aspect.
Right.
joe rogan
So he proposed it at dinner.
francis ngannou
Yeah, he proposed at dinner.
And then I just like...
This guy's making fun of me.
joe rogan
Making fun of you?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
So it was disrespectful?
It was like not valuable enough for you?
francis ngannou
Not at all.
unidentified
Hmm.
joe rogan
And you're the champ at the time.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
I mean, not at all.
Like, when you're talking about pay-per-view, then you're negotiating pay-per-view, and then you see numbers like 1.25 pay-buys and stuff like that, and the pay-per-view is going from $60 to $80 in the past five years.
And you realize that the 0.25 that is on top of it is just out of the $20 that's been added on.
I'm like, come on, man.
It's not my first pay-per-view contract.
joe rogan
It just wasn't enough money.
francis ngannou
It wasn't even about the money, even how it was structured, even how it was.
I'm like, this doesn't make sense.
You know, I went home and I was so...
I don't know, frustrated or disappointed?
I don't know how I can describe.
But one thing I know, I went online, I'm like, I'm missing Christmas with my family.
I'm here training for a potential John Jones fight, which might not happen.
What for?
Seems like we're not getting anywhere close.
I booked a flight that night to go to Cameroon.
And I was in Cameroon in the Christmas, and then...
Couple days after, I received a text from Mick, Mick Minner, who was, you know, Mick usually sometimes just sent me a friendly text to check on me, and then we talked a little bit, and then he talked about the...
The contract.
He heard that we didn't come to a term.
I said, yes.
He said, is it anything that I can do?
I'm like, I don't think so.
We didn't just have an agreement.
And he said, how about we talk again?
Let's get in a meeting with Hunter again and talk.
And as I said, make always be nice.
And I couldn't say no.
I'm like, yes, let's try.
In fact, I wish it could have worked.
You know, because to be honest, I never like really before all this, I never imagined a life out of the UFC. I thought he would be like my fighting platform onto my retirement or something.
But clearly things has changed along the way.
joe rogan
So even when they came back a second time, it still was not enough.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
Because when they came back, and all this time that we've been talking, they've been talking about the...
What is the term?
Back pay.
Yeah, we're going to back pay you.
Because from all the fight that I've been refusing to renegotiate, the pay that they were proposing, they said they're going to back pay me that...
When they come out now and then make pay better, and now I'm like, OK, the back pay and this and that, and I'm like, no, no, everything is in this contract.
This is it.
This is it.
Then I'm like, OK. Well, then I don't know what to say if you say this is it, because it's against your word.
You say something, and now you say this is it.
I said, I don't have the back pay, bro.
joe rogan
So they proposed the back pay and then they took it away?
francis ngannou
Yeah, they've been proposing the back pay before.
After the series fight, they invite us to a dinner and then keep reminding me how they're going to back pay me, everything.
Because I have a good proposal at the time, but I know that proposal, and he was a good money, but I know he was just a bear to sign a contract.
It was just to put the pen on the paper.
It wasn't really a good fit, like, how do you want to give me a good contract?
And they get to the point that I'm like, no, everything is in this.
I'm like, OK, I don't see it.
And we were kind of like silenced for a couple of seconds, like, What's that mean?
I'm like, you know, then we hang out.
joe rogan
So at that point, do you start to talk to people like the PFL and NFC? No.
francis ngannou
At that point, I stopped.
I didn't do anything.
When we stopped that convention, I didn't do anything.
Until, like, I started to see all these things on social media, and then I saw the day in a press conference, like, oh, we get rid of Francis.
Yes, he's not getting any younger, he's injured.
I'm like, yes, he's not getting any younger, but you were trying to have him.
He's injured, but you were trying to have him.
Now, you didn't come to an agreement, you're batching him.
That's when I started to respond.
Because I never really want this to be something on me.
And I was expecting maybe to go out there and just say, oh, unfortunately we didn't come to agreement and this and that.
And thank you.
Good luck.
Right?
And then we move away.
But that's not how they do things over there.
joe rogan
So you decide to start talking to other people then.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
And who do you talk to first?
francis ngannou
People started to reach out.
I wasn't even the one talking to people.
And, you know, at that time, I just want to let this weight drop out of my shoulder.
For some reason, I feel relieved.
I feel relief.
There was so much pressure into that process.
And I was in Camero and I'm like, man, just live your life, you know.
Whatever is yours out there will come to you.
But...
I get the first person that reached out was Pete Murray from PFL. And then I was just like, yes, let's hear him out.
And he came out.
We speak.
He asked, like, what I'm looking for and stuff.
We speak.
I'm like, ah, looks good.
A couple of days after, he made a proposal.
I didn't even ask for anything, but when he made a proposal, I looked at the structure of that proposal and I thought, this is good.
Everything was being taken into consideration.
Obviously, there's always going to be a way to negotiate in a contract, but the way that they structured it, I was already happy.
I'm like, I think this guy is trying to make me happy.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, they need someone like you.
The PFL doesn't really have the big stars.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
So, but we keep that contract and at that time I'm like, let's wait.
I'm not rushing to anything.
Take some time and everything.
joe rogan
So you didn't sign that yet?
francis ngannou
No, I didn't sign.
We also get to a chatry.
Even chatry, reach out, we talk, same thing.
And then a couple of days, they send their own contract.
But when I was putting that contract next to the PFL one, it was day and night.
joe rogan
The PFL was much better?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay.
And the PFL put a clause in to allow you to box?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
Boxing was first for me.
joe rogan
Would the PFL be involved in the boxing promotion?
francis ngannou
That was up to me.
That was up to me.
But they didn't really want to.
It's not their expertise, but if they can help in some way or be involved in some way, again, it's up to me.
So, very independent contract.
But I was more looking at boxing.
That's the first time that I started to have dialogue about boxing and stuff.
joe rogan
And I know there were some conversations with you fighting.
There was Deontay Wilder they talked about.
I think they talked about Dillian White.
francis ngannou
He was Deontay Wilder.
We had a conversation with Deontay Wilder, Tim, even with him.
I personally was on the...
Meeting with him, conference with him, that we were talking about a potential to fight him.
And that was going well.
And I think even to this day, we are kind of like open about it.
It's just, along the way, he has the potential opportunity right away that they say, okay, we would like to pursue the conversation about what we have here.
And for us, it was understandable.
I'm like, okay, then let's explore, maybe after.
And then right after that, I started a conversation with For the fury fight.
Because I get a call.
I was driving to the airport and I get a call to meet in New York for some conversation about the fury fight.
And then when I get in New York, Next week, we scheduled out next week.
I get in New York.
We get to the room.
I meet the people.
It was the right people.
We spoke.
I heard them.
I knew them, right?
And I'm like, okay.
This is legit.
I think with these people behind this fight, it's going to happen.
That's where I now put them in contact with my team to negotiate because they wanted me to do everything.
Let's negotiate.
I'm like, I don't do negotiation.
I listen.
I talk about how I would like things to go, but I don't like to negotiate personally.
unidentified
Right.
Of course.
francis ngannou
I want this.
I deserve this.
I'm that.
I'd rather have somebody do that on my behalf.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Somebody do that on your behalf and you want to respond to a good deal.
francis ngannou
To a good deal.
joe rogan
You want a good deal brought to you.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
unidentified
Okay.
francis ngannou
I want somebody...
It's always good to have somebody in the mirror that would take the temper of both parties.
Right.
Because a deal can fall off Joseph because somebody's mad and his ego take over and the deal is off, right?
joe rogan
Right.
francis ngannou
But when there's somebody in between, And you always come to like, okay, it's not him.
And just to think about it.
And that's what happened.
Because sometimes with my team, they were frustrated.
And I'm like, oh no, this is not working.
And then they would come to you.
And then you would talk nice.
You know, be a nice cop.
Have no problem.
I'm like, no.
But my team is saying this because they didn't mean to offend you, you know.
But I think, you know.
joe rogan
Got it.
Frustrating, right?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
I mean, no, no frustrating.
Complicated.
Yeah.
But over the time, you learn, you understand how it works, and it's pretty easy.
joe rogan
Okay.
francis ngannou
It's pretty easy.
joe rogan
So, you're in the driver's seat now because you've left the UFC. You have all these opportunities on the table, possibly Deontay Wilder, then it becomes Tyson Fury.
So, when do you know that that fight is actually going to take place?
Because I know there was a long...
francis ngannou
June.
That was in June.
That was in June.
We locked that fight.
It was concluded.
Everything was said.
joe rogan
So for all those months from December to June, you're essentially just trying to find where you're going to land.
francis ngannou
Yeah, but before that, I agree with the deal with the PFL. I think it was in March.
But I made the request.
I said, let's just figure out what will be my next boxing fight before we sign the deal.
So you haven't signed the deal with the PFL? I haven't signed the deal.
joe rogan
Is it possible?
Let me ask you this.
francis ngannou
Okay.
joe rogan
Is it possible that you go and fight Tyson Fury and then the UFC comes back to you and says, listen, Let's make this right and let's fight Jon Jones.
Is that possible?
francis ngannou
It's possible, but...
joe rogan
That's what I want.
francis ngannou
No, it's possible.
That's what I want.
It's possible, but they have to go to the PFL now.
joe rogan
Oh, because does the PFL have a contract signed?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You did sign a contract.
francis ngannou
I did sign.
I say in March, it wasn't signed.
joe rogan
Right.
francis ngannou
I signed in May.
joe rogan
Do you think the PFL would allow that?
francis ngannou
Oh, the PFL is down for that.
joe rogan
Really?
francis ngannou
Yeah, he's down for that.
Wow.
The PFL is down for that.
joe rogan
So the PFL would let you fight in the UFC. But what happens if you beat Jon Jones and you become the UFC heavyweight champion again?
That's a problem.
francis ngannou
I don't know.
Maybe he'll be a special fight, a special belt or something.
joe rogan
Yeah.
francis ngannou
Maybe not like a UFC belt.
I don't know.
joe rogan
Yeah, the UFC probably would not be down for that.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
Win the title and then go fight in the PFL. That would be a problem.
francis ngannou
No, no.
Not the title.
But, you know, To be honest, I don't worry about the title.
The title is not what I worry about.
I worry about that fight, that challenge.
I wouldn't care if it was a fight without a title.
I don't need a UFC title.
joe rogan
Especially with that fight.
What difference does it make?
It's Jon Jones and you.
francis ngannou
No, that fight is bigger than Tyro.
joe rogan
Yes, bigger than Tyro.
francis ngannou
The fight is bigger than Tyro.
joe rogan
No doubt.
francis ngannou
So deep inside me, I still have a little bit of hope even though I know It's going to be hard, but you never know.
joe rogan
Boy, that would be a big gamble for them.
Because if you win, then you're the champ, but you're signed with the PFL. Yeah.
Okay, so June, you get the Tyson Fury bout negotiated.
Did you get everything you want?
Was it easy?
francis ngannou
Again, you don't walk in a room for a contract to get everything that you want.
And at that moment, I was just so happy to get that fight happen.
Because from that fight, a lot of things would be open.
That fight would open a lot of doors.
You know, sometimes, even in the negotiations, sometimes you have to see long-term what it comes with.
Now I get this fight.
I think it should have been the focus, right?
After this fight, imagine, hypothetically, I go out there and knock Tyson Fury out.
What do you think will happen for me now?
Where does that leave me?
joe rogan
If you knock Tyson Fury out, you're the biggest combat sports star in the world.
That's what I think.
francis ngannou
So is that everything that you will want?
joe rogan
You gotta get the cash.
francis ngannou
Then you'll get everything.
joe rogan
Well, if you knock Tyson Fury out, the real money's in a rematch.
francis ngannou
Exactly.
joe rogan
That's the real money.
That's crazy money.
Are they giving you crazy money for the Tyson Fury fight?
Are they giving you crazy money for the Tyson Fury fight?
francis ngannou
Yeah, they're giving me good money, and very great condition.
I like a lot of components, and again, I like a lot of components of this contract, which was the thing, the treatment that they were giving me, the access, how easy they make stuff for me.
It's going to be the first time that my family is going to attend to my fight, and I don't even have to think about that.
They're going to work on it.
They're going to figure out how to bring my mom, my sister, my brother out to Saudi to watch that fight.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
So they're going to take care of everything.
francis ngannou
We're going to take care.
joe rogan
The Saudis know how to throw that money around, boy.
francis ngannou
And I think that's something that for me was very, very important.
I think, you know, I could have half more money, but it wouldn't make me more happier than stuff like that.
And, you know, you kind of like work with people that you feel like, okay, they are trying their best, their very best to make you feel comfortable, feel happy.
I think that's, it's also a partnership, you know?
It's not like one shot, okay, take everything that I can take and go.
How can we build something?
Like, is it like somebody that I can trust?
Can we build something for the future?
And then when you feel like, yes, You invest into that relationship.
joe rogan
So June, they negotiate the fight.
Is it 12 rounds?
francis ngannou
10 rounds.
joe rogan
10 rounds.
And they've created a new belt.
And you're happy with the money.
You're happy with the conditions.
You're happy with everything.
So then in June is when you go hardcore boxing training.
When did you start hardcore boxing training?
francis ngannou
I was training boxing already.
I was in a camp.
joe rogan
But you're recovering from your knee surgery, first of all, right?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
So you can't kick and you can't wrestle.
francis ngannou
I can kick.
I can wrestle.
But you have to be careful.
I have to be careful.
joe rogan
How is the knee now?
unidentified
100%?
francis ngannou
I don't have to worry about kick, wrestling.
joe rogan
Right.
francis ngannou
Just knee.
My knee is probably 90%.
I mean, when you get a knee surgery.
joe rogan
Did you get any stem cells or anything?
francis ngannou
Not yet.
joe rogan
How long are you in town for?
francis ngannou
I had a PRP. I'm leaving tonight.
joe rogan
You're leaving tonight?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's a company in Austin, Ways to Well, that I wanted to hook you up with.
francis ngannou
Ways to Well, yes.
I get in contact with them.
I get them to do my exam.
And I think Eric Nixik put me in contact with them.
With Brigham?
unidentified
I can take care of that too.
francis ngannou
About the same, sir, if we have the time.
You should do that.
I think I'm going to give you the shirt.
For sure.
joe rogan
It'll help you.
francis ngannou
It's very important to take care of To maintain the vehicle.
joe rogan
Yes.
Obviously.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And what a vehicle it is.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
Basically when you're going to put it in a big crash like this.
joe rogan
So, yeah, right?
That's a good way to put it.
francis ngannou
Yeah, because Tyson Fury is a monster.
unidentified
He's a monster.
francis ngannou
I stand next to him and I'm like, damn, this guy is big.
He's big.
I'm like, you really need to go full force.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's a big fellow.
And he's very good.
Very skillful.
francis ngannou
Oh, man.
joe rogan
You jump into the top of the heap, maybe ever.
francis ngannou
And then I was there at the press conference next to him.
I'm like, yes, look my fat belly.
I'm a fat pig.
I'm this.
I'm like, don't you fool me.
I have seen you.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He tricks people with that belly.
francis ngannou
I'm like, don't you fool me.
Don't you trick me, Tyson.
I've seen you box, and you doesn't box as if fat anything at all.
unidentified
No, he doesn't.
joe rogan
He's an animal.
francis ngannou
If you just focus on his body, then you'll be like, oh, easy job.
No, man.
When the guy's in the ring moving you, I'm like, okay, is it like something that they are remoting or something?
I'm like, no, don't you fool me.
joe rogan
He's very, very skillful.
Very skillful.
But, you know, you have probably the most sensational punching power I've ever seen in the heavyweight division in the UFC. It's you and Derrick Lewis.
You're the two biggest knockout artists ever.
francis ngannou
Maybe, but again, I think in the heavyweight division, everybody can knock everybody out.
The problem is to connect.
That's the most problem, bro.
Everybody, hit somebody in the shin, it's going down.
How to connect?
The delivery system.
It's something that I heard once from Teddy Atlas, and it stuck on my mind, like the delivery system.
You can have the biggest missile, but if you can hit your target, it's useless.
joe rogan
So, when do you get involved with Mike Tyson?
When did that start happening?
francis ngannou
In training?
Yes.
joe rogan
Because I've seen videos of you training with Tyson.
How much have you trained with him?
francis ngannou
Not so much.
He comes time to time.
Not always.
He's not always with me.
But if you look like four years ago, exactly four years ago, and that's when Tyson and I, we started to hit each other on social media.
And four years ago was the first time that I met Mike Tyson.
I was on his podcast, The Hot Boxing.
And one request that I initiated at that time was like, whenever I fight Tyson Fury, would you be in my corner?
And he said yes.
That's even on my Instagram.
It's still on my Instagram.
The next day, I put that as a caption.
I asked him if he could be in my corner whenever I fight Tyson Fury.
And nobody believed that this could have happened.
Like, okay, cool.
Then what?
And when I get the fight, I'm like, bro, that thing is happening.
That thing is manifesting itself.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
And so Tyson agrees to be in your corner, and who are you training with mostly for boxing?
francis ngannou
I'm training with Dewey.
Dewey Cooper.
Dewey Cooper, yeah.
I also get this guy from France named John Bumba, that I used to work with him, train my boxing with him.
He's a young, very young guy, you know.
But I like his style, the way that his approach and stuff, and I really have a good connection with him.
What's happened?
I reached out.
I mean, even before the fight, I was working with him, taking him in Cameroon, get some training already.
Then when the fight gets announced, I talk with him, then I brought him out.
So he's in Vegas with me.
joe rogan
And so, you started your journey in martial arts.
You initially wanted to be a boxer.
francis ngannou
Yes.
unidentified
And then when you went to an MMA gym, they convinced you to fight MMA. When I went to France.
joe rogan
Right.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
No, he was even in a boxing gym that convinced me to be an MMA fighter.
joe rogan
Really?
francis ngannou
A guy from a boxing gym named Didier Carmon.
The first boxing gym that I get into.
But he was also a martial artist himself.
And he said, bro, I think you have a very good potential.
I think your best outcome now regarding your situation, because I was still homeless at the time, I think your best outcome would be MMA. That's how I'm like, what's MMA? He started to explain to me, like, you know, I'm like, ah, okay, that sport that they do in the cage.
He said, yes.
I'm like, ah, I have seen it.
He said, if you train some takedown defense and jujitsu, what is jujitsu?
He started to explain.
I think you're going to be a UFC champion one day.
What is UFC? And how old were you when this was happening?
27. That was in 2013. It's so crazy.
joe rogan
June 2013. People don't understand that you started this journey as an MMA fighter so late in your life compared to most.
A lot of these guys, they're training when they're 14, 15 years old, they're in MMA gyms and have an amateur fight.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
And I forced my way into MMA. And that's why, like, there was a lot of things that I didn't understand properly.
I didn't learn as an athlete growing up.
And until I get to a steep fight, the first steep fight.
Man, that steep fight taught me a lot about combat sport.
joe rogan
Yeah.
francis ngannou
After that fight, I was at the press conference and telling people, like, I think I have learned more in this fight because here I've been, what, almost just four years?
Four years and a half since I've been doing, not even four years and a half since I've been doing MMA when I fought Stipe the first time.
unidentified
Crazy.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
And I said, I learned this night.
Tonight I learned more than I have learned in the past four years in this game.
And I think people didn't understand, but I meant it.
joe rogan
Well, you certainly showed it in the rematch.
You certainly showed it in the rematch.
And Daniel Cormier pointed it out.
He said, patient, Francis.
You were patient in the second fight.
You didn't just rush out and try to take him out in the first round.
Much more dangerous.
francis ngannou
Yeah, because on my previous fight before Stipe, I wasn't rushing on anybody.
joe rogan
What about Rosenstreich?
You kind of rushed him.
francis ngannou
That was after.
joe rogan
Yeah.
francis ngannou
I mean, before the first fight.
I wasn't rushing off on anybody.
I was knocking people out without rushing.
The mistake, the thing that I did is like I get to the point that I really started to think about the knockout, which is something that I never thought about it.
It just happened.
joe rogan
Right.
francis ngannou
Then I started to think about it, so that's where I rushed.
joe rogan
You were trying to make it happen.
francis ngannou
I tried to make it happen, and obviously at that time there was a lot of pressure on me and everything.
So I was sure I have to give a result.
So that's why I was rushing.
So I understand that night.
I went back and watched that fight, and I saw me fight.
I'm like, who is that guy?
He just looked like me, but I don't recognize.
Why he's rushing?
Why he's doing this?
So, then I understand.
I'm like, okay.
Maybe you just have to go back to the previous way, the previous you, and then things will be fine.
Then I went back to the previous you.
joe rogan
In the rematch, not only were you the previous you, but you were a way better version of you.
You were very calculated, very technical.
francis ngannou
It was four years.
What, three years after?
Yeah.
So, of course, I have learned.
I'm in the sport to learn.
I know that I have a deficiency, so I pay a lot of attention than those people that grew up as an athlete, you know, doing different sport.
I always take that very seriously, the fact that, I mean, maybe sometime my power helped me to get away with stuff, But I know that I have a deficiency, you know, as far as experience and everything, even techniques.
Because sometimes I hear people say, oh, yeah, he didn't train wrestling in a training camp.
I'm like, bro, come on.
You think two, three months wrestling in a training camp will out-wrestle somebody that's been wrestling his entire life?
No, you can't.
You can't just find a way to go around.
But, you know, so that's how I process things.
I think about the advantage.
I always think of myself as an underdog.
joe rogan
So what did you change in your training after the first Tipe fight?
Did you change anything?
francis ngannou
First of all, I understand how to train properly.
I understand how to train properly.
And again, I just think about everything as a deficiency.
I used to think that sometimes I'm like, oh yes, he has a good striking, he's a boxer, he knocks people out.
I'm like, no, I have no good striking.
Everything has to...
Involved.
Whether it's my striking, my wrestling, my jiu-jitsu.
That's why people keep training.
The day that you think, oh, I'm good at this, that's the day that you start to go down.
Because you can't stay in the same place like this.
You're going to permanently try to go up.
And even if you're not going up, That's how you can maintain your position.
But if you stay comfortable with something, that's the day that you start to lose it.
So I changed everything.
I focused on everything like All the assets.
That fight really helped me a lot.
I think about my diet.
I think about the discipline and stuff.
I mean, usually I'm good with discipline, but I still think about everything, put everything in prospect.
Like, okay, is my diet okay?
By the way, after the Stipe fight, I decided to cut soda out for a couple of wine before.
And since then, I've never drank soda.
joe rogan
You've drank it a lot before?
francis ngannou
Oh, a ton.
A ton.
joe rogan
Even in training camp?
francis ngannou
A ton.
In training camp, I was eating croissants, everything.
I was like, no, I'm heavyweight.
I was just focusing about my weight and not about my condition and all those aspects.
I didn't know.
You know, the night before the steeper fight, I was in the foco de chow, eating outdoor steak.
joe rogan
That's good.
francis ngannou
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, that's good for you.
francis ngannou
Before the fight?
unidentified
Meat.
francis ngannou
Oh, no.
It's not good at all.
joe rogan
Not good?
francis ngannou
Not at all.
I was heavy as shit.
joe rogan
Oh, you ate too much.
Did you eat stuff with the meat?
Like potatoes and rice?
unidentified
Of course.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
That's where it is.
francis ngannou
The night before the fight, maybe two hours or maybe one hour before I worked in the arena, I was at Foco de Chao.
joe rogan
An hour before you went to the marina?
unidentified
Yeah.
francis ngannou
Wow.
No, in the arena.
joe rogan
Yeah.
francis ngannou
Because I went to the arena like maybe two hours before the fight, but three hours is not enough to digest all those meats and stuff.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And so in that fight, you learn all the lessons and then you change your diet, you enhance your discipline and you keep working on all your skills.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
Then, you know, how we were talking about patience.
That's how I walked into the Stipe fight, directly with fight.
Constantly telling myself, be patient.
And I was there just telling myself.
I think I wasn't even in that fight.
I was there, but I was still fighting Stipe.
I was like, no, be patient.
Be patient, be patient.
joe rogan
You were still thinking about getting tired in that first fight, getting taken down, getting controlled?
francis ngannou
No, really.
I was just thinking about patience.
joe rogan
Patience.
francis ngannou
Just patience.
But I overdue.
We overdue it.
I overdue it, and it was too much.
That's how it turned out.
But I was like, patient.
You get this.
You get this.
That's why, at the end of the fight, I'm like, is it over or is it over?
I was confused.
I didn't know that he was even the third round.
joe rogan
Really?
francis ngannou
Oh, yeah.
I was really messed up mentally.
I didn't know.
I thought I still have a round.
joe rogan
So what was that feeling like?
francis ngannou
And my corner was telling me, I mean, they was telling me everything's good.
Like, okay, I think you get one round.
The second round, maybe you get this.
I don't know.
And so I feel like everything was right.
So my mind was playing me really bad in that fight.
joe rogan
So what was it like when you went back and watched that fight?
francis ngannou
I didn't watch.
joe rogan
You didn't watch it?
francis ngannou
Yeah, I feel bad.
You know, I feel like I waste a bullet.
joe rogan
Mm.
francis ngannou
An important bullet.
joe rogan
Yeah.
francis ngannou
And then...
joe rogan
That sets you back.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
I feel very bad.
And then the reaction about it, the way people react about it, you get to the point that I kind of tell myself, OK, screw this.
Fuck everything, man.
The reason why I get into combat sports, basically MMA, was because it was fun.
I was never going to do MMA. I just kept training like, oh, it's fun.
I like it.
Let's keep going.
Then I realized that that fun wasn't there anymore.
And that's why I was falling down.
Because I started focusing on what people think, people reaction, people feelings.
And then I forget the reason why I started the sport.
So now I get the second fight against Curtis played in China.
I'm like, okay, this might be the end.
I don't think if I lost this fight, it's going to be good for me.
But at least I earned it how I started.
Just by fun.
Just go there, enjoy yourself, have fun, and don't worry about what's next.
And then 45 seconds, the guy was down.
And then Ken Velasquez, 25 seconds, the guy was down.
I was just there to have fun.
Junior Dos Santos, the guy was down.
Seems like having fun.
Having fun is exactly why I'm doing this and it's why I'm good at it.
Let's just do it.
I try not to put pressure on me.
Every Friday, I'm like, I'm going to go there.
Do my best.
Make sure that everything that should have been done is done on my end.
And the rest, I don't control it.
joe rogan
Have you ever worked with a sports psychologist?
francis ngannou
Man, I don't believe in that.
joe rogan
No?
francis ngannou
No, I don't believe.
I think everything is in our mind.
You can go out there trying to find all those stuff, but you have it in your mind.
You can't speak to yourself.
You can't question to yourself.
I don't need a poor psychology to tell me why I'm doing this.
It's out of passion.
I do this because I love it.
It's not a job, you understand?
I question myself, like, why did I get here?
How come did I come from where I came from and get here?
Then I find all those reasons, and then therefore I put my staff together, right?
Maybe some people do.
Some people clearly need people to help them to control their self.
I see that in a lot of fighters.
Basically, they need a coach or somebody to tell them what to do.
They don't know.
To tell them what time to train.
You know you have a fight.
You schedule your training at this time.
You have this and this to work on.
You can schedule that and get there every day.
At the same time, do your thing, go home, get ready for another day.
But some people do need somebody to get them that.
joe rogan
So do you schedule all your training?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
Everything?
francis ngannou
I schedule everything.
joe rogan
Really?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
And my team, I organize all my team, you know, mostly about people that I share the good energy about because, again, I don't believe in so many things.
I don't believe in, like...
Oh, this guy is a great trainer.
He can do this.
No, I believe that everything comes from a fighter and the energy that people around him can bring, can help him win.
So in my team, I favor people's energy.
People like the energy that they bring around.
I favor them and that's how I judge if somebody is best or not.
It's by his energy.
And that's how I get along with Pretty much everybody of my team.
I judge everybody based on this energy.
I'd rather have a good person next to me.
My team is great.
They are all great.
Everybody is very professional, committed.
If I feel like somebody has this energy and not even as great, I prefer that person than somebody that is a great trainer and don't bring that energy because the energy is very important.
You know, when you start to get tired, when you're in a tough situation, the voice that you can listen and trust is more important than the technique that you can learn.
You can know all the techniques in the world, and if you get there, your mind is not right.
You are not doing shit.
Yeah.
joe rogan
So the energy of the people you got, that's all down.
You got a great trainer, Dewey Cooper.
He's fantastic.
francis ngannou
I still get Dewey Cooper.
Even Eric...
joe rogan
Eric Nixick.
francis ngannou
Eric Nixick.
Amazing.
We're still here.
Because I remember even how we get together, he wasn't most like a coach.
I was in Fighting Junior Dos Santos and I have only Dewey Cooper or...
With Markel on my team.
And I reach out, I ask Markel, like, we should bring somebody in the corner or something.
And he talk about Eric.
And I'm like, I always meet Eric around and he's nice.
And I'm like, yes, let's try him.
And then we get to the locker.
Suddenly, I feel the energy was great.
You know, I'm like, man, this is good.
I like this vibe in my team.
That, for me, is enough.
That's why sometimes I understand.
Once I saw Mike Perry, he went to a fight with only his wife in his corner.
And then people were criticizing him.
I'm like, I understand him.
He's doing the right thing.
He understands how the games work.
He just wants a voice that can speak to him when he's tired, somebody that he trusts, and all those stuff, and everything.
joe rogan
He already knows how to fight.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
He knows how to fight.
joe rogan
Yeah.
francis ngannou
Because nobody is going to raise your hand and punch on somebody's head.
unidentified
Right.
francis ngannou
Or like nobody is going to dodge a punch for you.
Nobody is going to say, oh, knock him out now.
You know?
unidentified
Right.
francis ngannou
It's just, it's fighting game.
It's mental.
More mental and improvisation.
joe rogan
So you schedule everything?
You schedule your strength and conditioning?
You schedule your sparring?
You schedule everything?
You just do it all based on how you feel and what you need to get done?
francis ngannou
No, like, I schedule, I mean, I get a strength and conditioning, for example, for this camp, I get a trip.
He's out here with me.
So, we talk about the goal.
What is the goal?
What is the deficiency?
What do we want?
Where do we want to get by the fight?
We are 12 weeks out.
Okay, what is what we want to work on?
And what would be the good space?
Then we get that schedule.
Then with the boxing team, we speak around.
But I always try to get my team together so sometimes they can just work together.
They don't always need to come to me on staff.
My team can communicate together also on my schedule.
joe rogan
So when you train, you do strength and conditioning, are you using a heart rate monitor?
Are you paying attention to your resting heart rate?
What it's like when you wake up?
Your heart rate variability?
Do you get involved in any of those things?
francis ngannou
Sometimes, not always.
Sometimes I even do the test to see where I am at.
joe rogan
VO2 max?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
Even the VO2 max.
We focus on, I think, the most important thing for me right now, my injuries.
It's all about my injuries.
unidentified
Do you have other injuries other than your knee?
francis ngannou
Injury, no.
I mean, you get sore.
If you get to a training camp to the end without pain somewhere, then you better worry.
joe rogan
You probably didn't do enough.
francis ngannou
Yeah, you probably didn't do it right.
So that's the thing.
That's the reality of the sport.
You can train hard for three months and feel great every day and don't feel like something's wrong.
No, that's mean.
You're not doing something right.
joe rogan
Is it easier to train for boxing because you don't have to do the wrestling?
You don't have to do the kicking?
Is it like less likely that you get injured?
francis ngannou
Sometimes you think so, but when you get there, it's different.
You know, like in the first two weeks, it wasn't even a training camp, it was a pre-camp.
My first two weeks in boxing, straight boxing, I felt that different.
Of course, you get excited because you're not going to kick or take down or this, it's just boxing.
Oh, you're not going to, you don't risk injury for your knee and that, because now I always think about my knee.
Then you get there, you start to hit, mid, hit part, do all those stuff, always your hands up and then your shoulders start to hurt.
Then you throw more punch in two weeks than you have ever thrown in the training camp, in the two-month, two-three-month training camp.
Then I'm like, ah, there is a difference.
You know, your shoulder feels different.
It's not the same thing.
In MMA, you throw one-two kick, one-two-three kick, one takedown, daily boxing, wrestling, cage wrestling, all those stuff.
Now, in boxing, Your hands have to go all the time.
And when he's not going, he has to be on your face, protecting your face.
Otherwise, you're going to hit that punch clearly.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So when you prepare for a fight like this, you've never had a big professional boxing fight before.
And this is the biggest of all time.
I mean, you're literally fighting the greatest heavyweight of all time.
Yeah.
How do you know when to peak?
How do you know when you're ready?
Because you haven't done this kind of training before.
francis ngannou
You will never be ready.
Even at the fight night, you will always think like, oh, if I have this, maybe I should have done this instead.
Maybe this would have helped me.
When is the go time you have to go?
So you just have to make sure to get there in your best.
joe rogan
The best you can do.
francis ngannou
The best you can do without burnout because there's also a balance in between because if you overdo, then you burn out by the time you get to a fight.
joe rogan
That's why I was asking about heart rate monitors and checking your resting heart rate and heart rate variability because one of the best ways to find out if you are overtrained is to check your resting heart rate when you wake up first thing in the morning.
And if it's up 8 beats a minute, 10 beats a minute, most likely you went too hard.
And then they'd suggest like an active recovery day, a lighter training day where you're still moving, you're still working on technique, but you're not pushing.
You're not really pushing.
francis ngannou
And even when your heart rate monitor indicates that, I used to use the Aura Watch, and it almost indicates how you feel.
You feel it.
And then when you have a good team, they can also measure the mass of your training.
And they can also walk around it.
They know, okay.
Monday and Tuesday, we went hard on this.
Wednesday has to be slow, and this, you know, maybe work on technique, or like on the strength, on this and that, all those aspects.
And that's why a team is very good about, because you can, like, by yourself, think about everything.
joe rogan
No, you need other people.
francis ngannou
You need other people to help you because things get so big.
You need other people to help you and everybody's kind of like he has his own department to worry about.
joe rogan
So when you're training, how much sparring are you doing?
How many days a week?
francis ngannou
Three or two, sometimes.
It depends, again, how you feel and how the recovery been, how was the sparring.
You know, sometimes you get sparring and you feel like, yeah, even though you did the amount of round that you're supposed to do, but it wasn't that intense and this, then the next day, no, maybe you keep, you push again.
You know, and sometimes you just go to a sparring and that one is hard.
The guy gives you a hard time.
You push.
The pace is high.
And then next day, maybe you need to recovery.
Not like recovery, but slow it down.
Give your shoulder some rest because you always end up on maybe heavy backs.
Like, it's all about that balance.
But it's like two, three a week.
joe rogan
And are you sparring with any world-class heavyweights?
francis ngannou
World-class, sofa, no.
The only guy that I used to spar with, which is a world-class heavyweight, is Carlos Takam.
And he's now just coming in the training camp because he's also going to fight on the card.
Yeah, which is a world-class.
And we're going to get...
We were talking about some guy that we were bringing, like, experienced fighters, boxer, to spar.
joe rogan
What is it like for you to spar boxers and not be able to kick, not be able to take them down?
Does it create any adjustment for you?
francis ngannou
I wasn't an expert of kicking either way.
joe rogan
But you kick hard.
francis ngannou
Again, I wasn't an expert of kicking and I wasn't an expert of taking down.
joe rogan
But you did defend your heavyweight title, a lot of it with wrestling, because of your knee.
francis ngannou
Yeah, because that was the only option that I had.
I wasn't comfortable moving.
joe rogan
We should tell people, you went into that fight to defend your heavyweight title with torn knee ligaments.
Your knee was fucked up going into that fight.
francis ngannou
ACA, MCA. That's crazy.
Meniscus.
joe rogan
And you're fighting Cyril Ghosn, who's the most agile, light-footed heavyweight in the division.
francis ngannou
He moves everywhere.
I'm like, okay, I need to figure a way.
joe rogan
Nobody moves like that guy.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
But one thing that helped me into that fight a lot, I believe in myself.
I know that I'm going to get him.
I wasn't looking for a knockout.
Once again, I wasn't looking for a knockout, but I know that I'm going to have my opportunity at some moment in the fight.
That's where, like, the first two rounds, I was a little, like, worried about how to move and this and that.
Like, oh, my knee.
Oh, this, you know.
But I was still confident.
And after the first two rounds, I'm like, man, I'm losing.
It can't end like this.
No, not like this.
We need to do something.
joe rogan
Switch it up.
francis ngannou
Switch it up, man.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Was that a satisfying victory for you, though, knowing that you could beat one of the best heavyweights in the world with only one leg?
francis ngannou
Satisfying?
Yes, by far the best.
Because it wasn't one fight at that night.
That night, I was fighting like four.
I was fighting my demons, my needs, everything.
joe rogan
The contract.
francis ngannou
I was fighting the contract.
I was fighting the narrative.
I was fighting everything that can go wrong.
And I couldn't strip this fight better than this.
If you had asked me, like, how would you like to win?
I would say knockout, obviously, which is the easiest way.
But everybody predicted me to be like, okay, he has a chance in the first round to knock Siri out.
After that, his power is going down.
Then his cardio is going down.
He has nothing.
It was the completely opposite way.
They say, oh, Sirigan has a cardio after two rounds, after a fight.
He can fight two fights a night.
I'm like, bro, come on.
Depends.
You know, at the end of the fight, I'm like, I'm not sure that he's ready to fight another fight, to take another fight on tonight.
Unlike what they predicted, I lost the first round and I started to win from the third round, which is like the contrary of what they predicted.
joe rogan
But nobody knew that your knee was that fucked up either, though.
The UFC knew it was injured.
They let you wrap it, right?
francis ngannou
No, no, they know everything.
joe rogan
They knew everything?
francis ngannou
When I did the MRI, he went to Dr. Davison and then when he was explaining it to me, he said, only four people know about this by now.
Dana, Hunter, you and I. That's how he was explaining it.
joe rogan
Did you consider pulling out of the fight?
francis ngannou
I thought, yeah.
You know, in the perfect scenario, I would have pulled out a fight.
But I didn't want to give them an opportunity.
joe rogan
Another extension.
francis ngannou
It wasn't about the extinction.
It was just to bury me.
I don't want to give the opportunity to bury me.
You know how in this world they say, okay, I'm going to die with my soul in my hand?
It was like, okay, I'm dying with my soul in my hand.
joe rogan
That's a lot of pressure.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
But when I heard about, when they explained to me what was going on in my knee, I was very worried.
Then for somehow I call...
I called Camaro or he called me.
Anyway, we were in the phone and we were talking and he explained to me like what he had and this.
And I remember once I saw him in Vegas when he fought.
I think it was Kobe Carvington the first time.
And the guy was messed up, man.
He was working like this in the five weeks, getting caught.
He's on shot here and there.
I'm like, damn, this guy is going to fight.
Maybe it was Tyron Woodland.
He said, so this guy is going to fight on Saturday?
I was so worried.
I feel bad about it.
Man, at that night, he was sharp.
This is the guy that I saw him on Wednesday.
He was barely able to work.
He was sharp.
And I know exactly what was wrong with him.
So that kind of like helped me to believe that, man, when comes the moment, you know, fighting, your fighting instinct will take off.
joe rogan
Kamaru is so strong mentally.
francis ngannou
Oh, man.
joe rogan
People knew how bad his knees are.
His knees are so bad.
He has to go backwards downstairs sometimes.
francis ngannou
Sometimes, yeah.
And then you'll be like, oh, his hips, this.
I'm like, bro, you can't pull out the fight.
No.
He's going to fight.
And then he show up to the fight.
joe rogan
Looks perfect.
francis ngannou
Looks perfect.
I'm like, there's no way that he's...
So that's kind of inspiring me to feel better about myself.
I'm like, man, I can't do this.
It's not over yet.
I still have something.
Left.
So I keep...
Even though I couldn't train anymore, I couldn't rest, so I couldn't do anything.
And I was three weeks away from...
Three weeks and a half away from the fight.
So I started to focus on my air bike, you know...
joe rogan
Cardio.
francis ngannou
Cardio.
Up walk, you know, body walk.
But it wasn't...
It wasn't easy.
But I think my air bike hurt me a lot.
Because from not being trained for over three weeks before the fight and get there like that...
Wasn't too bad.
joe rogan
That airbag's a motherfucker.
The air bike.
Yeah.
Air salt.
I used the Echo bike.
The Rogue Echo bike.
francis ngannou
I always use the Assault.
I like the Assault one.
I like the grind.
You feel the moisture.
You feel the moisture like you're pushing through your knee.
joe rogan
Such a good workout.
francis ngannou
I have it in my living room.
I sit in the room and put the TV in front and I will ride that thing for an hour to work on my cardio.
joe rogan
It's amazing for cardio.
It's my favorite machine.
francis ngannou
And for heavyweight, it's not great for you being out there running in the concrete or putting all those weight on your joint.
With the airbag, you do the same thing without putting all those stress into your joint.
I'm like, man, I think this is probably the best device for me.
Yeah.
joe rogan
No, it's the best device for a lot of people.
It's a phenomenal piece of equipment.
So, what else were you doing for recovery?
Do you get massages?
Do you use the sauna?
Do you use the cold plunge?
What else do you do?
francis ngannou
Physical therapy.
I just get a cold plunge from Plunge.
And then I set that up.
I was able to make it work this week.
I use that.
I do the hyperbaric.
Oh, nice.
Yeah, I do the hyperbaric chamber.
I have a friend in Vegas who has a Hyperbaric store.
She's even partnered with Michelle Tate and Janelle.
They have a Disney Moon Hyperbaric.
So I go there sometimes.
They have this hardcore one.
I used to get Someone in my house, but he will be the soft one.
Yeah, it's not as good.
joe rogan
No, you want a real one.
francis ngannou
I think that can only go to 1.3 or something.
joe rogan
Yeah, you want two.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
With the hard one, you go to two.
joe rogan
We should explain.
That means two environments, twice the normal oxygen environment.
francis ngannou
Yeah, so I go there time to time, dive into that thing.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's phenomenal for recovery.
That's great.
So you're using all most sophisticated materials and equipment.
What about supplements?
Do you have someone who monitors your supplements and your nutrition?
francis ngannou
I try.
Yes, for nutrition, always.
When I have a fight, I have a chef.
Yes, I have a chef.
I always do that when I have a fight.
But for supplements, I don't know.
I'm never able to get along with supplements.
I don't know.
joe rogan
Take them, don't take them, forget to take them.
francis ngannou
Yeah, take them, don't take them.
I used to be at the PI and then Glenn, they would always like get those back ready for me and with all the vitamins and how to take it every day.
And I would take it like two, three, four days and after.
joe rogan
Just quit?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
Did you notice a difference?
Taking it or not taking it?
francis ngannou
I don't know.
joe rogan
It's all hard, right?
francis ngannou
I don't know.
It's really hard.
joe rogan
One thing that you don't have to think about with this fight is your weight.
Like, you don't have to make the 265 pound weight limit.
What are you walking around at?
francis ngannou
It's still different because the weight limit, even when I fight MMA, sometimes I get there at 260, below 260. It's not because I'm cutting weight.
joe rogan
You're not thinking about it.
francis ngannou
Yeah, I'm not thinking about it.
I mean, I do work in order to get my weight down, but I don't cut weight.
I don't have a big process of...
unidentified
Right.
francis ngannou
Diet, you know, to cut weight.
unidentified
Dehydration.
francis ngannou
No, I just train properly and eat properly with the chef and sometimes by myself to get there.
But even now, I still have to think about it because based on the game plan, you know, I don't want to have an extra 10 pound, unnecessary 10 pound on me.
unidentified
Right.
francis ngannou
But at the same time, I don't also want to lose a strain because, as I said, this guy is a big dude.
He has a skill to lean on people, weigh them down, stuff like that.
I think there's going to be a little bit of a wrestling there.
I need to get my strength right.
So there has to be a balance.
I walk around like 275, 280. My normal weight.
Walk around weight.
But I think might get in the fight at 265. I don't know.
It depends on how we decide this to go.
joe rogan
So without giving away too much of your strategy, How do you envision this fight taking place?
You've never boxed a heavyweight like him before.
You obviously have tremendous skills and power.
How do you envision this fight taking place?
francis ngannou
Well, it's very hard to envision.
You know, sometimes I just visualize the fight, me there in the ring.
Suppose I'm going to be the blue corner, being there waiting for him to get in the ring.
He knows all the sides of the ring.
He's been there.
He knows all the corners, how to move, how to cut, everything.
And I'm going to be there to figure out how to cut.
The ring, you know, it's really hard.
I think I'm just going to focus on, like, being composed.
You know, don't think about too much stuff.
And again, I would like the knockout.
But, you know, Tyson is very slicky.
And you can go like you want to knock him out.
So I'm preparing in the way that this fight can go all the way to 10th round.
Which is a disadvantage for me.
I never fight boxing at that level.
So managing my energy, how I'm going to be feeling with all the pressure and the adrenaline, how are they going to be in the 10 rounds?
So how can I maximize it the most?
It's about that.
I visualise it a lot.
I think about it, trying to be there that night, waiting for him, see him come, do his show, get there, trying to do his slick stuff, weigh me down, dirty boxing, come close, trying to lean on my head, because he's taller than me!
But I think I'm going to handle that daily boxing properly.
Because usually, boxing guys, I have seen a lot in sparring, and since everybody wants to do the same thing, like Tyson, trying to prepare you for that, There are still those wrestling tricks that you can get into.
Sometimes I go under the shoulder and step in your back, which is something that boxers don't do.
They don't know.
I don't have to worry about that still.
joe rogan
Are you going to have, like, I know that when Sugar Ray Leonard made his comeback, one of the things that he did was he had actual fights.
Like, to prepare himself so he didn't have any ring rust, he would have actual fights in the gym with, like, regulation-sized gloves, no headgear, 10 rounds, 12 rounds, whatever it was, he would have actual fights.
francis ngannou
I think we had that a lot of time.
I mean, we fight MMA with four-ounce gloves, right?
And we don't fight with headgear, with kicks and everything.
So I'm not worried about that.
And we used to spar, when you're a MMA fighter, they don't spar boxing with the protection.
With the headgear and stuff.
They just go in the gym.
They don't worry the size of their gloves.
But boxing guys, they come to the gym, everything is checked.
Like, what's the size of the gloves?
The check, the headgears, the this, the cup, and all the stuff.
I mean, now I do that to protect myself.
I have a fight in less than six weeks, so I take all those precautions, but I don't think I'm going to do that by now.
If I was six months out, yes, I can do something like that, but now I have no interest in doing that.
I know I can deal with that.
I have got hit with four-ounce gloves, you know, in the fight.
I've been there.
I haven't done boxing yet, but I've been in fighting more than once.
So I'm going to be okay.
And one thing that we are going to talk about is Tyson gloves.
He's...
He's very tricky with his gloves.
I think he's cheating.
Is he cheating?
Yeah.
I've heard a lot of complaints about his gloves, which is like his glove has no protection.
joe rogan
Where have you heard this from?
francis ngannou
Even when he fought Deontay Wilder, he complained about that.
Yeah, but did you ever look into that?
Direct Tezora complained about that.
And that's what we are talking about the team.
And then I'm like, oh, there's the UK commission, the gloves.
I'm like, bro, we're going to get there.
We need every glove to be checked.
You don't tell me about this commission.
All the gloves get to be checked.
I don't want...
If you want us to fight bare hands, bare knickers, let's go bare knickers.
But don't give me 10-ounce gloves and wear 8-ounce or 6-ounce gloves because he has no protection.
joe rogan
You really think he's doing that?
francis ngannou
I think so.
I mean, I have heard.
joe rogan
I've seen the Deontay Wilder videos, but they're not convincing.
Here's why.
They're showing those videos in slow motion.
And in slow motion, it looks like his glove is flopping all over the place.
But that's just because it's in slow motion.
When you watch him boxing, he's doing this.
He flicks, flicks, flicks.
He shows you it.
unidentified
Pop!
joe rogan
Then he drops a big punch in.
francis ngannou
But...
joe rogan
So, in slow motion, it looks like it's all floppy, like it's not connected, and you think that the gloves are really, like, just flopping around, and where his knuckles are is where the wrap is.
But that's not the case, because if you look at the length of his arm, none of that makes sense.
francis ngannou
Yeah, but he's opening complaints about his glove.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't know if they're right.
francis ngannou
I mean, they might not be.
joe rogan
I don't know if they're right.
francis ngannou
We have to check that.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, I'm sure.
I think it's legit.
I think he's legit.
I just think he's that good.
francis ngannou
No, he's good.
He's good.
joe rogan
And his style of, like, keeping that hand loose and flicking.
So sometimes that wrist opens way up.
And if you look at it in slow motion, people are like, look, his glove's not even attached.
His glove's attached.
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Because after he does this, he does this.
There's no way he's doing this if his glove's not attached.
It's attached.
He just loosens his hands, because a lot of his punches, he's just showing you things.
He's showing you things.
unidentified
Bang!
joe rogan
He's showing you this, and then he's doing all this.
So a lot of it is loose, and he's just popping you at that, like a whip, you know?
francis ngannou
Well, I think we have nothing to lose by double-checking.
joe rogan
Nothing to lose by double-checking, that's true.
francis ngannou
Yeah, because there's been more than once that people talk about his gloves.
joe rogan
Right, but nobody needs them.
francis ngannou
And even his opening.
Even his opening.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm sure they talk about it.
He kicks their ass.
People looking for reasons.
Deontay Wilder thought he got poisoned.
He thought a lot of things.
But that's because the guy's that good.
He's fucking good, man.
And I just think that style, when you look at it in slow motion, it might look like his gloves are not attached, but they are most certainly attached.
francis ngannou
But in the boxing world?
You have to worry about everything.
It's a dirty world.
You have to worry about everything.
If somebody says something in the boxing, you better just double check.
joe rogan
Double check.
What has Tyson brought to the table?
Training with Mike Tyson.
What did he help you with?
What kind of strategies did he give you?
What kind of thought process?
What is his approach to you fighting Tyson Fury?
francis ngannou
I mean, asking that question makes me feel like you don't really understand.
Like, I grew up idolizing Mike Tyson.
joe rogan
Yes.
francis ngannou
Right?
joe rogan
Everybody did.
francis ngannou
And then, as having a dream to become a world-class boxer, my first boxing match, Mike Tyson is in the gym, like, oh no, this, that, that.
I'm like, come on a moment.
Like, this is real.
This is how, this is where I get.
So it's real.
This is legit.
joe rogan
Your first boxing match.
Mike Tyson's in your corner.
unidentified
Crazy.
francis ngannou
I kept Mike Tyson's here.
Like...
Even mentally, just thinking like that.
joe rogan
Like hearing him cheer you on.
francis ngannou
Sometimes I'm like, yes, it's him, right?
I'm not tripping.
joe rogan
You have to check because it's really Mike Tyson.
francis ngannou
I'm like, okay, this thing is serious.
And not only, he's there and he believes that you can be this guy.
That's how it is.
So, like, he put his faith on you, a guy that have done everything in boxing that is there.
I'm like, so he see me as somebody that can do this.
joe rogan
Mm.
francis ngannou
We were talking about mental stuff.
These are some mental stuff that are heavy.
Not to mention his technique.
Mike Tyson has a unique style.
I wish I had his style, but I'm not going to expect to copy his style because it's unique to him.
joe rogan
Well, he's also built very differently.
francis ngannou
He's built different.
He was always the shortest guy in the room.
So with his opening, which is the case in this fight, I'm the shortest, his technique, if I can get...
And then one thing that people always see is how strong he was.
He was knocking people out.
And nobody was...
Impressed of how he was able to move from left to right and this, how this footwork and all those stuff, how he was that short and was able to get into the distance when he wanted to hit and all those stuff, right?
Which is something that's very interesting.
With Mike Tyson, one best thing that you can get from Mike Tyson is the footwork.
joe rogan
Footwork.
francis ngannou
Footwork.
Change from left to right.
Because in boxing, everything is about your foot.
And his footwork, his power was based on his footwork.
When you have a good base, your punch is definitely stronger when you don't have a good base.
How to have that good base to send your punch when you're Right.
Bass, right?
unidentified
Yes.
francis ngannou
And if you look at Mike Tyson, all his fight in his career, he was all about the bass, the full work.
joe rogan
Yes.
francis ngannou
I watch his training sometime on YouTube still.
And then you see how he's flipping.
I'm like, it's not possible that heavyweight can do this.
joe rogan
I know, for a heavyweight, that's just crazy.
So here's you guys working together.
francis ngannou
And this was four years ago.
This was the first time that I met Mike Tyson.
This was in 2019. On his podcast.
And he was always about the footwork.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, he was so well trained.
And when he was young, the way he would move in and bob and weave.
Yes, yes.
francis ngannou
And he gets you go on that knee.
I'm like, okay, everything is in the leg, in the thigh.
You do that like twice.
I'm like, okay, I think I need some low body workout.
I'm not strong enough.
joe rogan
Yeah, he had a lot of footwork and movement.
francis ngannou
That's why his leg is like this big, like a tree trunk.
joe rogan
Right.
A lot of bobbing and weaving, too.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
People forget.
They just think he was a hard puncher.
francis ngannou
Yeah, people forget.
He showed me how he was training for his leg, you know, go all the way down and do like this duck work and stuff.
I'm like, man, come on.
And that's what he did all his career.
And people don't see that.
They just see like, oh, he hit hard, he's strong.
No, he's technical and he's hard work.
joe rogan
Technical, hard worker, tremendous speed, perfect technique, everything.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
All the above.
And he hits hard.
francis ngannou
He hits hard.
joe rogan
Everything.
francis ngannou
I mean, when you combine all those stuff, there's no way you don't hit hard.
joe rogan
Right, right.
So, does he have an idea, like looking at your frame and Tyson Fury's frame, does he have an idea of the way you should approach the fight?
Does he give you...
Like what he thinks that you would do that would be successful against Tyson Fury?
francis ngannou
Of course.
Because his entire career, he almost fight people that was like Tyson Fury.
And that's why I explicitly went to him about this fight.
Because I feel like, again, if I was able to have, let's say, a quarter of what Mike Tyson have, this fight would be an easy fight.
joe rogan
Do you think so?
unidentified
Really?
francis ngannou
I mean, there's not an easy fight, but he'll be an easier fight.
joe rogan
Wow.
I mean, out of all your day, 24 hours a day, how often do you think about the fight?
Every minute?
francis ngannou
Not every minute, but ...
Well, now that you're talking about it, I don't even know that I'm thinking about the fight when I think about the fight.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
It's just natural.
francis ngannou
It's just natural.
It's my life.
The most important thing is what I do every day.
Even when I don't fight, even when I don't have a fight, I think about fight.
It's just like my thing.
So I can't tell exactly how often I think about a fight.
But I know sometimes I'll go to sleep, and then he will just come in my mind, and then you start thinking, you know, start exploring those stuff.
And sometimes it's exciting.
I mean, most of the time it's exciting.
Sometimes it's also nervous.
Yes, you're also nervous about the thought that you have.
I'm like, hey man, maybe I'm missing this.
Maybe I'm not taking this serious.
Maybe this, maybe that, maybe that.
Which is good because after you have those feelings, those moments that you're not too confident, sometimes you're like, I think I shouldn't go to bed.
I didn't do enough today.
No, I shouldn't do enough today.
I need to do more.
joe rogan
So here we are now.
What is today?
September 21st.
So you're about six weeks out?
francis ngannou
Five and a half.
joe rogan
Five and a half weeks out.
francis ngannou
Five weeks and two days.
joe rogan
So you ramp up now and then you taper off the last week.
And when will you be in Saudi Arabia?
francis ngannou
Earlier.
joe rogan
A couple weeks out?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
A couple weeks out.
Three, four weeks.
joe rogan
So exciting, man.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
You will be there.
joe rogan
I wish I could be there.
francis ngannou
Walk around.
joe rogan
Process.
francis ngannou
Think about the fight.
joe rogan
Yeah.
francis ngannou
Think about everything.
unidentified
Yeah.
francis ngannou
That single day that your war gonna change.
unidentified
Yeah.
francis ngannou
How, what's gonna happen?
What would October 29 looks like?
joe rogan
What do you think is going to happen?
francis ngannou
It's going to be a celebration.
It's going to be disappointment.
What's it going to be?
October 29th morning.
joe rogan
Exciting, huh?
francis ngannou
You're going to feel like the king of the comfort sport.
joe rogan
There it is.
francis ngannou
Oh.
joe rogan
Look at that.
Look at that poster.
Damn, that's a great poster.
francis ngannou
Oh, no, you haven't seen anything.
joe rogan
Really?
francis ngannou
Anything at all.
The production behind this fight, insane.
We have, like, five-day production.
unidentified
Really?
francis ngannou
At some point, I'm like, hey, guys.
But the good thing about the production, wherever we are going for production, I have my team with me.
I'm like, I still have to train.
Regardless of a promotion, I have a fight coming up.
I have to keep my training schedule.
And then they bring all my entire team with me, from the chef to the coach, nutrition.
Everybody is with me.
So...
I'm like, okay.
joe rogan
Do you have a prediction for this fight?
francis ngannou
Man.
Prediction for this fight?
Knocking me out?
No, no.
I don't want to have a prediction because I will want to follow.
joe rogan
Right.
francis ngannou
That might stick in my mind, and I want to execute my prediction.
Maybe just train properly, let it flow, get there, and let what happens, happen.
Just fight.
Focus on fighting.
Make sure you fight.
Make sure you're ready to give everything in there.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It must be so exciting for you to have made that deal, though, because everybody said that wasn't going to happen.
I read so many commentators saying Francis is wasting his time, they're never going to give him a fight.
francis ngannou
You were asking me if this deal is a money.
That was a money, too.
Once again, to prove people wrong.
Hey, you motherfucker.
You were wrong.
I'm right.
Again.
joe rogan
Well, for people who don't know your story, how you went from Cameroon and went to Morocco and got sent back, where you tried to make it across to Europe, what, seven times?
francis ngannou
Seven times.
joe rogan
Seven times.
And you were homeless at the time?
francis ngannou
I fell six times.
Yeah.
Succeeded seven times.
joe rogan
But that kind of resolve and that kind of discipline and that kind of drive, that's very special.
And I think you got something from that experience and to prove what you're capable of?
francis ngannou
No, I don't think.
You have to know.
joe rogan
I know, I know.
francis ngannou
You have to know.
Like, sometimes I think about my life While I was going through my upcoming, going through all this process, I was always pissed, upset, like, why all those things happened to me?
At my cost, like, what it is that nothing can go right for me?
But when I think about it today, even though I can go back to that path, I think it was a blessing.
Because, like, the life lesson that I have learned from my journey, Seems like my journey was just preparing me for this moment, for the life that I'm having now.
You get to the point that you know the moment that I kind of like I find out that I'm rich.
It's not the moment that I check my bank account and see money.
It's not the moment that I own a house.
It's not the moment that I had a house, a car.
It's the moment that I look, I check myself.
I'm like, okay, what can possibly happen to me that I can handle, that I haven't seen?
And I say nothing.
I can handle everything.
I can overcome everything.
Therefore, I wasn't afraid of anything.
I could go ahead and let what happened, happen.
I'm not afraid of falling, because I know that I have the ability to stand up.
And that's what my life taught me.
Again, even though I didn't choose that part, it taught me that way.
And I think it's one thing that carries me.
Where I am now.
joe rogan
So let's talk about your PFL deal.
So where are they going to get opponents for you?
Like who's in the heavyweight division right now in the PFL? They're going to figure that out.
So they'll probably have to hire people, just try to contract people that are...
francis ngannou
Yeah.
And they are looking for an option because my fight is supposed to be...
I'm supposed to fight in the PFL beginning of next year, February or March.
joe rogan
So after this fight in October, you'll take some time off and then go to MMA training?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then get ready for the PFL? I have...
francis ngannou
There are some legit people in the division.
I have this...
There is this guy, Reyna Ferreira.
I think this guy is legit.
Nobody is seeing him.
Nobody is really talking about him.
I'm like, keep eyes on this guy.
You're going to see.
He's like 6'6 guys.
Brazilian guy.
But the way he moves, the way he bugs, the way he does things, if you check that guy, you can tell me about it.
Yeah.
So...
Other than that, who can they be who is in the roster right now?
Auntie Delia.
It's Auntie Delia, I think.
Yeah.
joe rogan
So they're probably going to have to recruit some top-tier heavyweights if they want you to fight them.
francis ngannou
I wish.
Yeah.
Otherwise, they have to make a tournament to get a winner that are going to fight.
But I think they need some recruiting.
joe rogan
And how many fights is your contract with the PFL? Multiple.
Multiple?
francis ngannou
Multiple.
joe rogan
Five?
Six?
francis ngannou
No, no, no, no.
Oh, no.
I can't get those.
joe rogan
You don't want to give up the details.
But you're happy with everything, though?
francis ngannou
No, I'm happy.
I'm happy the way that it goes, the way that the structure, how...
The freedom that I have inside the country.
And I'm also more happy and excited about the PFL Africa.
Because in the deal, we have this PFL Africa that we have to launch in the beginning of 2025. And that's how we're going to expand MMA in Africa.
It's something that I've been working on, trying how to get this there, and it was hard.
And now I get a whole operation that's going to be dedicated for that.
I mean, the work is in the process already, but the first event is going to be the beginning of 2025. I'm quite excited about that.
I want to see some of those monsters that are in Africa get there, come over and knock people out, chop their heads up in the octagon.
joe rogan
One of the things you've done that's very nice is that you've negotiated a minimum purse for your opponents too, right?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is...
I mean, I don't want just to feel like a guy that goes there and grabs the money.
Okay, give me the money.
I want this.
I want that.
Right?
And then I'm fighting this guy that probably doesn't have a chance because he's struggling.
He can have a proper training.
You know, I'm here having my fancy life, my organized training.
I can have all the doctor that I want.
I can have...
The team that I won, nutritionist, this coach, that, that, that.
And then I fight a guy that didn't have a chance.
And he's in this big fight because without him, the fight, without the opening, the fight has not happened.
So he's a part of it.
And I'm like, okay.
Don't just make me look like the grab-and-go guy.
What is my opening he's having?
He's going to be a big moment.
He's going to be in the big fight.
Right?
What is it going to be for him?
So we set a minimum of two million for him.
And again, that's a minimum.
If they get somebody that have a leverage to negotiate for more, then you can negotiate for more.
But if the guy is the guy that doesn't have a leverage, they don't just have to pressure him like, oh, no, you have to fight.
This is an opportunity.
We are doing this for you.
No, you're doing this for money.
He better have his own money.
So can we at least guarantee that for this magnitude of a fight, He will have at least two million as a person.
And that was something that wasn't even difficult to have because, again, PFL was very open about that.
He was like, that's our vision for the sport.
Granted, we didn't have to go back and forth for that.
That's amazing.
That didn't take three minutes to get done.
joe rogan
Because how much do you think an average UFC fighter is getting paid in the heavyweight division for a fight?
francis ngannou
I don't know.
I don't check their contract, bro.
I know how much I was making and sometimes it wasn't fun.
I know what I could have made, but I know that I have to pay another price for that.
joe rogan
What other price?
francis ngannou
Contract.
Freedom.
joe rogan
So how good was the money that they were offering you to sign for the UFC? He was good.
francis ngannou
He was good enough, but...
joe rogan
It's just the other parts of it.
francis ngannou
The terms.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Where's the PFL getting all this money?
francis ngannou
Huh?
joe rogan
Because they don't have a pay-per-view model.
So how are they getting all this money?
francis ngannou
They are set in a pay-per-view super fight.
unidentified
They are?
francis ngannou
Super pay-per-view fight.
When you fight?
Yeah, when I fight.
And there's also Jake Paul that will potentially fight in the super fight.
joe rogan
Who is he going to fight?
Because I heard they're talking about him fighting Nate Diaz.
francis ngannou
I don't know.
joe rogan
If they did that on an undercard with you, that would be a big draw.
Because their boxing match was pretty close.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
That would be a massive, massive card.
But, yeah.
I like...
And I do like the PFR business model, that structure as a business.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, my hope is that they, well, it looks like they're buying Bellator, right?
francis ngannou
Yeah.
I heard that.
Nothing has been confirmed.
I don't know why it's taking so long.
We should have been hearing some news.
joe rogan
If that happens, that changes a lot.
Because then you get some real legit heavyweights, you get some real legit lightweights, welterweights, real legit fighters.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
Imagine the roster.
Yeah.
The merging of the roster.
joe rogan
That would be very good.
Very interesting.
You got guys like Johnny Elbin, who's high-level, middleweight, one of the best in the world.
You get some really good fighters over there.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I like that.
But, you know, importantly for the fighters, there needs to be competition.
There has to be options.
francis ngannou
There have to be options.
There have to be competition.
joe rogan
And at the end of the day, you, the heavyweight champion of the UFC, leaving the UFC and going to the PFL is good for everybody.
I believe.
Because I believe it strengthens that organization, which strengthens the opportunities for fighters.
francis ngannou
Yeah, and maybe open a lot of fighter eyes, because some fighters, most fighters, they have a one-sided vision.
They don't see it.
They don't even know that they have other opportunities, which is something that makes things very complicated for them.
Then they're just like, okay, whatever.
What else can I do?
I have seen people that get caught by the UFC and then they go somewhere else, whether it's in PFR, and I'm like, oh, I have a, wow, I have a new life.
I didn't know that I could make that much money on my career.
I remember once I saw a tweet, and that tweet sticked in my mind.
He was from Corey Anderson.
joe rogan
Yes.
francis ngannou
After he left, I think he got caught or he left the UFC, and then had a deal with Bellator.
And then he went there, he said, he make a tweet like, UFC gives me a career, but Bellator gives me a life.
I love that tweet.
joe rogan
Yeah, he said he made way more money in Bellator.
francis ngannou
Yeah.
I wonder why.
I mean, like, After this fight, I'm going to go out there and fight in the PFL. For one fight in the PFL, I'm going to be making maybe twice or three times what I've made in my entire career or in my entire life.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
francis ngannou
So, you understand the difference between career and life?
joe rogan
Yes.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
Good for you, man.
Good for you and good for the whole sport.
I really believe that.
I really believe that all that competition is good for the sport.
francis ngannou
I believe that too.
And I think the sport is really changing.
Now we get all those different organizations and soon we're going to have something in Africa, massive.
There's already some organization in Africa that would need to get pushed.
Kamaru Osman has his own organization named, I think, African Knockout.
There's some organization in South Africa, somewhere else too.
And then...
Yeah, but with the PFL, the way that they're going to structure the fund, how they're going to fund it, this is going to be massive.
Because we are structuring the PFL Africa as same as the PFL Europe.
Because the PFL is having a regional PFL. So, every PFL fighter from Europe is fighting in the one pool to get a champion.
Then we can fight in the PFL global.
In Africa, we're going to have the same thing.
They're going to have basically almost the same pain.
And when you think about the currency, it makes this in Africa like massive, massive investment in the economy.
Because those guys are going to have money and they're going to start thinking about how they train properly, who they train with, they're going to finance, they're going to pay people around them.
And business is going to grow around it and help infrastructure taking off and those things.
I'm very excited about it.
And the reason why is because sometimes I want to train home.
And then I realized I can't have even a sparring partner, a legit sparring partner, because they don't even have where to train.
They haven't been training properly.
They don't have a high competition.
They don't have staff like that.
So they can't dedicate their time that much for training rather than go working to provide for their family.
But if they were able to dedicate all their time for training, how would that look like?
I might just as well move home in a couple of years and just turn and set my training, come here.
Set something like what you did here in Africa and just sit there, have my calm, have my training partners at home, enjoying it from there.
joe rogan
And what an inspiration that would be for them.
So young fighters that don't know, am I ever going to have a future?
And then someone comes from Cameroon, goes to the UFC, becomes a champ, goes to the PFL, fights Tyson Fury, and then comes back to Africa and trains with everybody.
francis ngannou
I'm back already.
It's not like after 5 Tyson Fury, I'm back.
I have a foundation.
I have a gym there.
We just opened the second location in Douala.
And this is a massive facility.
joe rogan
That's awesome.
francis ngannou
That's beautiful.
Yes, we were helped by a betting company named Premier Bet that helped us build this massive, in the city, bro.
joe rogan
That's great.
francis ngannou
Yeah, in the city.
And we're about to build the third one.
We're trying to do some charity event, make them fight.
It's boring to just train and train and train.
They need something to get motivated by.
So we put some events.
They fight people from different countries.
So it gets them excited and focused.
And I enjoy that part.
I enjoy that process.
joe rogan
That's beautiful.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, Francis, listen, congratulations on getting this deal.
Congratulations on getting this fight.
And I wish you all the best of luck in the Tyson Fury fight and your PFL fights.
And if you're fighting, I'm watching.
francis ngannou
Thank you.
Thank you.
Unfortunately, you will not be calling.
joe rogan
I can't be calling.
francis ngannou
Oh, man.
joe rogan
I wish I could.
francis ngannou
I can see you walking the octagon with your mic.
I think I'll be looking with Joe around.
joe rogan
I won't be there, but I'll be there in spirit.
francis ngannou
Okay.
I love that.
joe rogan
Well, thank you, my friend.
I appreciate you very much.
francis ngannou
Thank you.
joe rogan
Thank you, Joe.
Good luck to you.
unidentified
All right.
joe rogan
Bye, everybody.
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